Cate Luzio had no problem getting her boss to agree to give her a raise, but was caught off guard when asked how much she wanted. Cate shares exactly how she was able to come back with her number in just 24 hours, and how we can all get paid as much as possible.
Cate's money story:
So I spent many years in corporate investment banking, but a large stint of it at JP Morgan. I was living in London, I was already at a managing director level, I was managing a big business within the corporate bank. I was, as women do, getting ready to prepare for that year end discussion and to ask for a raise. I go into my boss's office who was amazing and as I'm starting to already defend my accomplishments and list them out within 30 seconds of me speaking, he says, "Cate stop talking." I thought, "Oh, God, what did I do wrong?".
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, I would be worried.
Cate Luzio:
I thought he was going to say, "You're out.".
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no.
Cate Luzio:
And then he said, "What's your number?"
Bobbi Rebell:
Meaning?
Cate Luzio:
Meaning what's the number?
Bobbi Rebell:
How much do you want?
Cate Luzio:
Exactly. Because, one, he didn't have time to waste, and I will tell you that. And two, he was like, "Let's get to the point. You're going to come in here and give me all your accomplishments, but I'm your manager, I know your accomplishments, I know what you've done for the business. So tell me how much more money you want to make." And I had never even thought of the number, which is embarrassing to one extent and then proves a point to the other around that women often are ready to just talk about, list out what they've done and how they've made a value to the company versus going in and asking for that number and then being prepared to defend why they've asked for that. And so, he said, "I give you 24 hours and you come back to me with a number.".
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, no pressure. So, what do you do with that 24 hours?
Cate Luzio:
I knew that my team, more broadly the leadership team, were all a bunch of men, and that was fine, they were great, but I couldn't ask them. I had come from a different business about a year prior to that within JP Morgan, but I knew I should be making a big jump. So, what did I do? I called a bunch of my guy friends at other banks. I just said, "Here's the situation, I just need to know what you make."
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, let me just ask you. Did you just randomly pick up the actual, I hate to say this, the actual phone, meaning you didn't text them, you didn't email them.
Cate Luzio:
No.
Bobbi Rebell:
But you were picking up the phone.
Cate Luzio:
Picked up the phone.
Bobbi Rebell:
And putting them on the spot.
Cate Luzio:
Putting them on the spot. And I had done that throughout my career. I think women don't realize this, and I think it's a lot in the banking sector, that when you get your bonus everyone's pounding their chest, like, "This is what I got." And guys do. They tell each other what they make. So they benchmark early on. And I had been doing that early on in my career. And then as I got more senior it was like, "Oh, well I'm getting more jobs and I'm getting these big promotions. This is great." And I had forgotten about I should be getting paid for what I do.
And so that's what I did. I spent that night calling and talking. And I remember I met with one of the guys that I knew at a big bank competitor, and hashing it out. And walked in the next day with the number.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let me just stop you there. What was your take on the numbers they were getting? What did you learn just from those numbers about where you are relative to them?
Cate Luzio:
Oh, much lower. I mean considerable amount lower. And again, remember, I think it didn't have to do with the company not wanting to pay me. It was commensurate with I had been at the firm for a while. You don't normally get huge bumps and raises unless you come from another firm. If you've made a jump that normally happens with your bonus or your variable compensation. So that was not an expectation that someone would walk in and get a very large raise. I knew that from the hundreds of people that I had managed.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you hadn't asked.
Cate Luzio:
And I had never asked. A part of me thinks, "Oh, I should've asked." And then part of me thinks, "I'd only been in that particular role for less than a year. So, was it warranted?" Yes, because not only of my performance, but my potential to continue to perform in that role, and bigger roles. And so, we hear it a lot, men are promoted on potential, women are promoted on performance. This wasn't even about promotion. This was about getting a fair compensation.
And so, when I did that benchmarking and talking to my male peers, I realized I was making a lot less. And so the next day I went in and he said, "Do you have your number?" I said, "Yeah, this is my number." He said, "It's not unreasonable. I don't know what we can do, but it's not unreasonable." To which I walked out thinking that's a huge win itself that I didn't come in and him say that's absolutely never going to happen, which, by the way, that happens quite a bit.
And so, three months later when you actually get your comp information and your bonus, they hand you a paper, and that has everything written. And so, I have no poker face. And so I immediately pull up the paper in front of my face, because I don't want him to see if I'm crying or if I'm smiling. Because if it was going to be a bad number I was going to be really upset. And the number was not the number that I asked for, it was even more.
So, as I'm putting the paper down, I'm smiling. What was even better was my boss was smiling even bigger than I was. And his exact words were, "You perform for us, we perform for you." He said, "This is probably never going to happen again in your career unless you leave and go to another firm, but you've demonstrated not only performance but potential and we value that."
“Don’t just go into any or these discussions with a list of your accomplishments. Be prepared first to demonstrate why you are valuable to the company. And also know your worth. Have that number going in.”
Cate’s money lesson:
So the lesson is don't just go into any of these discussions with a list of your accomplishments. Be prepared first to demonstrate why you are valuable to the company. And also know your worth. Right? So already have that number going in, because the worst thing that can happen is, one, they quiz you on why you should get that money or that promotion. Then you're ready, you've got your accomplishments, you've got what you've done for the business, you've got how you've demonstrated your value.
Cate Luzio:
But also what's the worst that can happen? They say no. And then you decide whether you can live with that no, you continue to fight for that compensation or that role or that promotion, or you go elsewhere.
Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever gotten a no, and how did you deal with it if you did?
Cate Luzio:
Oh, absolutely gotten a no. Listen, companies are under lots of constraints, they're under huge budgetary issues, so there are a lot of nos. And I've had to give a lot of nos to people too. I think the way I combated that or came back from that was, "Is this still the firm that I want to work for? Is their rationale correct? Do I get that? Do I look at the overall earnings of the company and where I fit into that?".
Cate Luzio:
So, when you work for a large publicly traded company that's in the Fortune 150, they have a lot of mouths to feed. But you still, at the end of the day, have to feel comfortable with the answer that they give. And, for me, I never left a company because they didn't pay me. So I looked at where else there were value they were adding in my life and my career. Was there a career path? Were they providing opportunities? And that was big for me around the delivering of those other opportunities, but also investing in me as an employee, making me a better asset to them.
Bobbi Rebell:
I like that. Because sometimes people might work for, let's say, a startup or something and there just isn't the money.
Cate Luzio:
Absolutely.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you have to look at other things.
Cate Luzio:
You have to look at other things and what drives you. If money is the only thing that drives you, then that's not going to be the place. But there's the role, there's are you managing a team? Are you part of other projects within the organization? Are you moving up quickly, as you mentioned, like in a startup or even in intrepreneurial environment within a big company where it's not just about the compensation? I do firmly believe you have to be fairly compensated, but I think there's a lot of factors that play into that.
Bobbi Rebell:
So true. Now you are well compensated. I should say, when you worked for other people you were well com... Now you work for yourself. When you worked for other people you were certainly well compensated. You could certainly do the shopping that you wanted to do and have the wardrobe that you want to have. But just because you have the money doesn't mean you should spend it all on clothing. And that brings us to a everyday money tip from you. Because this is really interesting. We talk a lot about saving money because you have to or to reach certain goals. Sometimes you're saving money because maybe spending it just doesn't make sense.
“I decided to self fund. I wanted to look at my members of the community of Luminary as my investors, versus maximizing value for an investor.”
Cate's everyday money tip:
As someone who did make quite a bit of money, and I actually reinvested a lot of that money into my company because I self funded, one of the things I knew is that my disposable income I needed to make it very small, because I was investing it into the company. And I was a big shopper. I needed retail therapy. So I actually now rent most of my clothes. I do it mostly with Rent the Runway, but it's exciting to see all of these other new players out there because it gives you so much more variety and diversity of your clothes. And for me it ends up really saving a lot of money for me. Also, I get the thrill of shopping online or even in person because they have stores, but without the guilt of spending all that money and then wasting it because I wear those clothes one time and then never wear them again.
Bobbi Rebell:
I second that. I actually also use Rent the Runway, and I find that to be very true. And I also think you can wear things. Sometimes fashions can be a little bit silly, like we had weird sleeves happening a year ago. And you can try that and you don't have to own that because we know some things are just not going to have staying power. Right?
Cate Luzio:
Absolutely. And some things you may think one day they flatter you and the next they don't. So, why keep it in your closet?
Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:
Financial Grownup tip number one:
Cate was able to get the intel on her number in just 24 hours, because she had spent years building strong relationships. To do a quick turnaround, you need to have everything in place, and to do that you need to be playing the long game when it comes to those relationships.
Financial Grownup tip number two:
One of my favorite parts of this interview is when Cate got really candid talking about how she deals with nos. First of all, if Cate Luzio is getting no’s, we can all feel a lot better about our setbacks. But she never talks about storming out or being confrontational. Instead, it's about taking a big picture look and being tuned in to why that no happened. It could be you and your performance, and if so, you need to be self-aware enough to own that and to take action.
Sometimes we all have so much ra-ra, go for it in our lives that we're not really that honest when maybe we aren't deserving of that. I'm not saying that's true all that often, but it could sometimes be true. And we need to be realistic about whether the assessment of us might have some good points. But it can also be things that are out of your control, having to do with where the business is financially. That's not really on you, but it's still your reality. Keep your cool, don't make brash emotional decisions.
Episode Links:
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Cate’s website - https://www.luminary-nyc.com/
Cate’s Podcast - Come Sit At Our Table
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