Startup guru Courtney Reum credits family dinners and the lessons served with helping to create the foundation of his business success. Along with his brother, he has not only built and sold his own venture (Veev) and written a best seller “Shortcut Your Startup”, but is now also mentoring and supporting a new generation of entrepreneurs and brands. 

 

In Courtney’s money  story you will learn:

-The importance of family dinners in forming Courtney’s values

-The financial values Courtney and his brother learned from their parents

-Courtney’s confession about his teenage self

-How it helped Courtney learn about financial priorities and resource allocation

-Why Courtney references Jane Fonda and Jazzercise when talking about nutrition

-Courtney’s love of Sushi on Sundays

In Courtney’s money lesson you will learn:

-How his parents shared meals in order to stretch their dinners out budget

-The one key thing Courtney’s dad did when the bill came that can save you money

-Advice on how to figure out the right amount to tip when eating out

-The importance of sticking to old fashioned values even though technology dominates

-Little known facts about how phone numbers were created

In Courtney’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Courtney’s advice about carrying cash in a digital world

-Why $100 is the magic number for his emergency stash when traveling

Bobbi and Courtney also talk about

-How M13 began after the brothers sold Veev

-Why Courtney believes we are living in the golden age of creating brands

-Courtney’s angel investments and his take on consumer tech brands

-Why he believes all brands need to be media and tech companies

-What the M13 playbook is and how it works

-Courtney’s book with his brother, “Shortcut your Startup” 

-The importance of realizing “Time is the new Money"

In My Take you will learn

-How eating together as a family has been shown to increase the odds of success for kids

-Why checking the bill at restaurants often leads to corrections- in your favor

EPISODE LINKS:

Follow Courtney!!

Instagram @CourtneyReum And his insta with his brother Carter @ReumBrothers

Twitter @courtneyreum @M13company

Linkedin Courtney Reum

 

Learn more about M13 at m13.co

 

Read Courtney’s book “Shortcut your Startup” !

 

Learn more about the spirits brand they built and sold: Veev !

 

Learn more about the companies Courtney and M13.co are working with:

Classpass

Lyft

Casper

Kevita

Pinterest

Bonobos

Warby Parker

 

Learn more about the success that comes from eating together as a family:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/12/the-most-important-thing-you-can-do-with-your-kids-eat-dinner-with-them/?utm_term=.94cf3514f57c

 

---

Transcription

Courtney Reum:
They certainly tried to show us and explain that there's some nutrition here. Back then it was like I call the Jane Fonda Jazzercise, so it was they were like, "This is not too much fat, not too much calories. It's good, heres why," and so I equate the not too much fat, not too many calories to just the value of the meal, and so they were all about the value in things.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, that was Courtney Reum talking about family dinners growing up, and this is on family. They eat together generally seven nights a week, and while, as you will hear in his story, it wasn't about the food, the food did provide a largely unspoken lesson about money allocation and priorities. I'm really excited to share this story, I think we're all going to find something that we can relate to here and put to work in our own lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, first a quick welcome. We keep things short here, around 15 minutes. Flex time for our busy listeners because you can listen to one episode or you can listen to a few if you have more time. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't done so already, so you won't miss any upcoming episodes, and make sure when you do so, to go into settings and set you the auto-download. That way you never have to think about it again. If you have a free moment after that, leave a review. We see every one of them, we really appreciate it, and it is the best way for other people to hear about the show and for us to grow. Speaking of that, of course you can also tell a friend.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's get to Courtney. There is something in this episode for everyone. Courtney Reum is not as famous as he should be, or as he will be. Pay attention to this guy, and his brother by the way, who's also his business partner, Carter. After stints at Goldman Sachs and success creating and then selling their popular spirits company, VeeV, the brothers are now helping nurture other success stories with their company M13. It's a disruptive brand development studio and venture capital firm. Their portfolio incudes investments in some names you may or may not have heard of, like Lyft, ClassPass, Pinterest, Bonobos, Warby Parker and more.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, in their spare time, they wrote a book for anyone who wants to rev up their brand, Shortcut Your Startup. Courtney also drops some random facts I never knew, and I bet you didn't either, so play close attention, here is Courtney Reum.

Bobbi Rebell:
Courtney Reum, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Courtney Reum:
Thanks so much for having me. Great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so excited to have you. Not only are you, and your brother I should say, the inventors of Veev, which a lot of people are fans of, you now have a new company which we'll talk more extensively about after your money story, but M13, which is a brand development company, you have investments in a lot of really cool companies, from ClassPass, to Casper, to Lyft. Tell us just briefly about it. What is M13? M13 has a really cool origin, the name right?

Courtney Reum:
Yeah. Well we wanted to have that mysterious MI6 kind of I don't know what they do, but it must be something cool sound to it. But the literal name, M13, is the brightest cluster of starts in the galaxy, whereby the sum of the whole shines greater than the individual parts. It's this idea of connecting the dots and pitting the pieces together, which is what we're really endeavoring to with M13.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. I should mention you also have a book.

Courtney Reum:
We do. What we're trying to do right now with M13 is build a company for building companies, so we're starting some of our own, we're working with other companies, and so we have a, I guess I'd call it a venture capital arm and then a brand development studio, and we're really trying to institutionalize the platform or the machinery of how you create brands. We decided to try to codify that and write a book called Shortcut Your Startup, that is a lot of the principals and things we're doing, because we believe it's the new age of creating consumer brands and things like that, so we wanted to share what we've learned and then hopefully continue to improve on it with what we're doing with M13.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. You also learned a lot from your parents growing up. I know your father unfortunately passed away a little more than a year ago, but there were a lot of lessons around the dinner table, about saving and splurging. Tell us your money story Courtney.

Courtney Reum:
I think one of my most vivid memories growing up is that my family was really big on the lost art of having family dinner, probably almost until the time we got to high school, we probably did it seven days a week just about, and even through high school, probably four or five, which I think is almost unheard of. But what stands out to me is my parents, who were very frugal even when they didn't have to be, but always very value oriented, we would probably, four nights a week, eat some kind of Stouffer's, Lean Cuisine, AKA TV dinner. The only real choice for the night would be are we going to have spaghetti tonight or are we going to have chicken and vegetables? Whatever it may be.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. But your mom wasn't cooking spaghetti from scratch, these were heat-up meals for $5, $10, whatever they were going for at that time.

Courtney Reum:
Right, because I remember being teenager, and I was always a little bit of a smart you know what, and my mom would say, "Okay, I'm going to cook dinner," I'm like, "You call that cooking?" She's like, "You know what I mean, just pick which one you want." I think my family's a bunch of type A busy bees, people on the go, but we would have TV dinners three or four nights a weeks, and then Sunday would always be the day where my parents would say, "All right, we're going to go out for a nice dinner. Where do you guys want to go?" Nine out of 10 times, growing up in Chicago in the 90s we'll say, it would be sushi, and despite what people may think now, sushi was super exotic.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yeah.

Courtney Reum:
And rare back then, to the point that not one friend of mine ate sushi. My friends in high school, like on the football team and stuff, when I would walk somewhere with a cut roll of sushi, they would take it out and throw it back and forth like it was an egg toss because they were so wowed by what the heck sushi was. Anyways-

Bobbi Rebell:
And it was expensive.

Courtney Reum:
Yeah, and it was expensive. We certainly grew up having every opportunity, but having said that, I could not have gone out for sushi four nights a week, so it was a great lesson in all right, I'm going to have a TV dinner tonight, not realizing how some of those nitrates and processing and all that good stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
It was a different time. Give your parents a break. We didn't know at the time. Now we're all eating clean.

Courtney Reum:
Yes, exactly, but I definitely was able to scoff down a few of those dinners, knowing that Sunday was around the corner and we were going to have our favorite sushi dinners.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did your parents ever talk to you about the financial decisions behind that?

Courtney Reum:
My parents didn't explicitly talk about it, but they certainly tried to show us and explain that, "Hey, we don't have time, nor can we go out for sushi every night, but this is still a really good meal. There's some nutrition here." Back then it was like I call the Jane Fonda Jazzercise, so it was they were like, "This is not too much fat, not too much calories. It's good, heres why," and so I equate the not too much fat, not too many calories to just the value of the meal, and so they were all about the value in things.

Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners, what is the takeaway? How can people apply this lesson of saving and then splurging to their own lives?

Courtney Reum:
My parents are both highly disciplined people, and I would like to think that has trickled down to us. Even to keep it with food, since it's such a bonding occasion, my parents loved to tell stories of living in New York City right after they graduated college, and they would go out to dinner once a week because they felt like it was important to do right when they were newly weds, but they couldn't afford to really go out to dinner, so they would share one appetizer, one entree, one dessert and one coffee. The fact that they had the discipline to still find a way to enjoy and make the most of whatever they could do, but they had the discipline to realize we can't go out for a full-blown meal all the time, and that made a big impression on me.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's the most memorable financial lesson your dad taught you?

Courtney Reum:
My dad checked every bill from every restaurant. Whether we spent $7 or $70, he would check every bill. Still to this day, I do that, and I'm shocked how often there's a mistake on the bill, and most people, if you don't really check it closely, they don't catch it. They're like oh, they threw another drink on there, and maybe you don't care, but you might as well at least know. My dad would always joke, "It's funny how the restaurant very rarely makes an error in your favor." He just taught me to really dot your Ts and cross your Is, and my dad was one of those guys who could do incredible math in his head. None of this stuff where you just take the amount of the check and double it to do the tip or something like that, he would calculate whatever number was in his mind, 16%, 17%, without tax because he didn't believe you tipped on tax back then, and just do it in his head and write it down. Just having a facility with numbers and being in the details was something I really took from him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. He didn't have apps that would split things up and calculate everything for him.

Courtney Reum:
No calculators on his phone because there was and phones. He was like a human calculator, at least up to maybe two or three digits.

Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners, what's the takeaway from that?

Courtney Reum:
I think there is that old fashioned way to do things, and we've got to make sure [inaudible 00:09:20] where we don't lose it in the world of talk to text or voice or you name it, because I always say to people, "Do you know why telephone numbers are seven digits, not including area code? Because seven digits is roughly the amount of digits that can stay in you short-term memory, depending on how you define that, 30 seconds to a minute, this can stay in your memory and you can remember it. Back in the day when phone numbers were created, you really needed to remember that thing, or even if you wrote to down, and so it was important that it stayed in your short-term memory." Now think how few numbers we actually know off the top of our head, so we have to make sure we just don't lose those skills.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Speaking of skills, let's talk about your everyday money tip, because we were joking before we started taping, that you are ... I can't even keep track Courtney. I know you got off an overnight, but then it was delayed and you were on the tarmac. You travel a lot and you don't use a lot of cash, but cash is important in terms of this one everyday money tip that you're going to share.

Courtney Reum:
Yes. I always keep an emergency $100 bill, just for a rainy day, in my briefcase. My briefcase is more of a tech Tumi backpack, but I always keep it in there, try to always replenish it when I use it, and as silly as it sounds, obviously it takes up no room and there are so many times where I'm some place, I'm like, "I have no money," I'm like, "Wait. The emergency 100." I would encourage people, whether it's an emergency 20 or 50 or 100, whatever it is, always hide it from yourself so you don't use it too often, but then always have it available.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great advice, and something we all should definitely do. All right, let's talk a little bit more about M13. Where are you taking this company? Because this was basically formed after you sold Viiv, what's happening with it next and what should we look forward to hearing about?

Courtney Reum:
Yeah, as I alluded to, I think our whole thing when we sold Viiv, was we had started and operated some companies, we had been on the boards of a bunch of other companies and thankfully been successful. For example, there's a probiotic and kombucha line called KeVita, that Pepsi bought a couple of years ago. Basically, all consumer tech companies, we probably made, at that time, maybe three dozen angel investments, and we said, "You know," we tried to step back and do the proverbial lift your head up, see where the world's going, and we thought yeah, of course we could, we had plenty of ideas, we could start a new company, try to make it successful, sell it or not sell it.

Courtney Reum:
But we really think we're living in this golden age of creating brands, again, we focus on consumer tech brands, and by that I mean consumer brands that tend to be techable, so that can be anything like direct to consumer online brand, or even something like a Lyft that we're big investors in, or Pinterest.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Give us some more examples. Yeah, drop some names.

Courtney Reum:
Drop some names, okay. Let's see. Right now I'm wearing Bonobos pants, Warby Parker glasses, some of the mattress companies, so it's all things that we basically believe that every consumer brand needs to be saying to themselves, "How can it more of a media and tech company?" Because what's really changed is that this is the golden age of creating brands. I saw a funny meme the other day that was like I want to create a brand and someone says, "How should I do it?2 he goes, "Oh, it's really easy. You just get someone to give you a name, a logo, and then you make it in China and you sell some ads on Instagram." It obviously a joke, but there's some truth to it.

Courtney Reum:
What we're trying to do is institutionalize the process of brand building. Obviously nothing is one size fits all, but there are things that I get asked every single day like, "Hey, do you know a good digital marketing agency? Do you know someone who does that?" Rather than do the analog way of replying to every one of those, or thinking about who I know or who did I come across that week, we have actually taken all of our learnings and put it into what we call our M13 playbook, which is literally a digital repository of all our best practices and best resources. That's contacts, that distribution strategies, that's broker partners, those are relationships, and have actually put it in a format that we believe if we do this well, will help brands start faster, more time efficiently. Our book is all about time is the new money, so it's about trying to launch brands at scale so we can do it in a repeatable way and launch brands more quickly and more often than we previously would have been able to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you and Shortcut Your Startup, which is your book, and all your social channels. I know you're a little bit shy about being too promotional on social, but people can at least see pictures of your adorable mom on your social right?

Courtney Reum:
Right, exactly. If nothing else, please read the first page of my book because it's dedicated to my dad, and please look at my social media to find my mom. My Instagram is really easy, it's just my first name and last, @courtneyreum. If you find another one of those, I would be shocked, so it should be easy to find me there. M13.co, not .com, .co because it's more trendy now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, is it? Okay.

Courtney Reum:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
I learn so much from you Courtney.

Courtney Reum:
Yeah. I don't do a ton with LinkedIn, but I think I've gotten about three or four requests since we've been sitting here, so that's the world we're living in, and our book, shortcutyourstartup.com, there's a website, and then of course, since the whole world is on Amazon Prime, you can certainly find us there too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Courtney, I'm so excited to see how much more you accomplish. You're so impressive. Congratulations on everything.

Courtney Reum:
Thank you so much for having me. It's been a lot of fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on Courtney's money story and what he had to say. Financial grownup tip number one. We focused primarily on the fact that Courtney's parents did spend a lot of time preparing or money on everyday meals, and left that to the once a week sushi splurge, but Courtney also said something very important, and that is that they ate together as a family pretty much every night. Research has shown that leads to high achievement in kids, specifically dinnertime conversation boosts vocabulary for young kids, and for school-age kids, regular mealtime is a powerful predictor of high achievement scores, more so than time spent in school, doing homework, playing sports and doing art.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's even more. Other research found that teenagers who ate family meals five to seven times a week were twice as likely to get As in school as those who ate two or fewer times a week with their families. Full disclosure here, I am aspiring to this, it is not happening yet, so I'm going to put that on my fall to do list. I will leave a link to the research in the show notes. If you want to learn more, you can find those show notes at bobbirebell.com/podcast/courtneyreum. C-O-U-R-T-N-E-Y-R-E-U-M.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Courtney talks about checking the bill, and how the mistakes are usually not in your favor. No matter how much money you have, check the bill. I'm not alone in having caught so many things on bills that just should not be there. It happens so much, and as for tipping, I do believe you still aren't expected to tip on the tax, even though tipping expectations have certainly gone up in recent years.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way my friends, did you catch the random knowledge about phone numbers that Courtney shared? Rewind if you need to. I was fascinated. Maybe everyone knows that and I'm the only one. Anyway, Courtney crammed some amazing wisdom into this episode, raising the bar for my future guests, just saying. Keep an eye on this guy, and thanks Courtney, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

As a young woman in New York City, Randi Zuckerberg, author of “Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day)" was struggling financially. Her mom, knowing the financial strain, came armed with… luxury goods. Think Jimmy Choo shoes. But as Randi explains, the designer duds were part of a very intentional lesson, that put Randi right on track to being a financial grownup. 

 

In Randi’s money story you will learn:

-How Randi struggled to make ends meet on her first salary of just $28,000

-Why Randi’s mom would take her out and buy her luxury goods, but not help her with her every day expenses

-What Randi did when she literally could not afford to buy a metrocard for the NYC bus and subway

In Randi’s money lesson you will learn:

-How her mother’s strategy helped Randi find her path to financial independence

-If Randi still has all those shoes!

-The one thing Randi would change when she teachers her own children about money

In Randi’s money tip you will learn:

-Why she is paying attention to Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

-How you can learn more about Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

In My Take you will learn:

-How to manage social media envy

-The specific thing you can do with your own social media content to improve your experience and that of your friends

-Why and how you can learn more about bitcoin and cryptocurrency

Episode Links:

Learn more about Randi on her website Zuckerbergmedia.com

Get Randi’s book! Pick Three: You Can Have it All, Just Not Every Day

Learn about Cryptocurrency from Randi in this tutorial

 

Follow Randi!

Facebook Randi Zuckerberg

Instagram @RandiZuckerberg

Twitter @RandiZuckerberg

 

Also mentioned

Statement Event

Empower App

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Randi Zuckerber:
You know, I would turn to her and I would be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, my friend Randi Zuckerberg is known for a lot of things. It would take an entire podcast to name them all, so some highlights. She is a bestselling author of Dot Complicated, a Broadway actress and singer with a head star in Rock of Ages. She is the founder and CEO of Zuckerberg Media. Randi is also the force behind Sue's Tech Kitchen, she's got her weekly Sirius XM show, and oh, by the way, she created this little thing called Facebook Live. But her most recent project is Pick Three, which is a book about priorities, and with all that Randi has going on you bet she has had to get a handle on how to focus on what matters most, even if that changes every day. Here is Randi Zuckerberg.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi Zuckerberg, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thanks so much Bobbi, it's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Major congratulations, another, in this case soon-to-be bestseller, your new book Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day). We're going to talk more about that later on, but just high level, this is something you've had in your head basically for your whole adult life. Tell us briefly about the concept, and then we'll do more about the book later.

Randi Zuckerber:
Sure. Well, we're all juggling so many things. I know you and I, we both, we're entrepreneurs, we're moms, I feel like there's so much pressure on all of us to be perfect at everything we do. Especially you log onto Instagram and everyone's lives look so perfect and so amazing, and then it's easy to sit there and think, "Gosh, how come I don't have my act together? Why don't I have it all and have that perfect balance?" And what I've really started to feel over the years is that it's just, it's time for us to stop carrying so much guilt around. Nobody has it all. Nobody has perfect balance, no matter what their lives might look like on Instagram. And so when I thought about the times in my life I felt most proud of my accomplishments, it was not when I was balanced. It was when I gave myself permission to just prioritize and go for it in a few areas of my life, so that's what I'm writing about. It's called Pick Three, and it's work, sleep, family, friends, fitness - pick three.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And by the way, just to show how much I love this book and how obsessed I am, I actually made notes in the book already. You can learn more about Randy's philosophy on social media and how our lives always look better online, page 211. That was one of the things that I flagged. So that's how good her book is, I have a book full of little post-it notes. Okay, we're going to go back to the book, but I want to talk about your money story, because it's something that I actually related to, because something very similar happened when I was a young adult, in my case also in New York City. Tell us your money story, because it has to do with the way that your mother taught you to earn your own money, but yet still was supporting you in different ways.

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally. And it's funny, because I didn't really learn the lesson of this story until many years later. In the moment, it felt kind of random, and now I'm so thankful to my mom for that. So in the book I go a bit deeper into the story, but when I was right out of college I landed a job at an ad agency. I was making I think $28,000.00 a year, which to live in Manhattan, that just doesn't work. I was in this apartment that was probably supposed to be a one-bedroom but there were four of us that were living in it, and my part of the apartment was a fake wall partitioning off a corner of the living room.

Bobbi Rebell:
Probably illegal, too.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
We know all about those.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes, I'm sure it was illegal, and it was taking up an entire paycheck every month. And my mom lived about an hour outside of the city. We've always been such close friends, my mom and I, and she would come into the city to take me out for dinner because I definitely couldn't afford to go to a restaurant on my own. And then she would be like, "Let me help you out," and she would take me shopping, and she would buy me fancy shoes. Like Jimmy Choo. Like the fancy-

Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you going in the Jimmy Choos?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know. And I would be like, "Mom, that's so nice of you to buy me Jimmy Choo shoes, but can you help me pay my rent? That's where I really need help."

Bobbi Rebell:
At one point you couldn't buy a Metro Card, right?

Randi Zuckerber:
That's right. There was one month that I had to walk everywhere because I didn't budget well, and I couldn't afford the $120.00 or whatever it was at that time for a monthly Metro Card. And so I walked everywhere in Manhattan for a month. That's kind of the state of how I was living.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were you walking everywhere in the Jimmy Choos, though?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know, right? Luckily I had fancy shoes to walk in, so you know, good for that. But I would turn to her and I'd be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope." She was like, "You know, it's really important that you make it on your own, you're a professional woman. It's really important that you cover the basics of your life on your own." She's like, "But I'm here to show you what to aspire to."

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
"The reason that you're working hard and to show you that it's okay when you do make that money later in life to treat yourself, and just spend a little bit of that money on yourself."

Bobbi Rebell:
Nice. So for our listeners, what is the lesson from that? What is the takeaway? How can they apply it to their own lives?

Randi Zuckerber:
For me at the time, it definitely felt a little frustrating. It was frustrating that I could barely afford a Metro Card but I had this closet full of beautiful designer shoes. But at the end, when I do look back now on those periods of my life, I'm proud of myself for supporting myself. Even though it was hard. Even though I was barely making any money at all, I look back on those years with pride that I took care of all my own living expenses, that I made it on my own. And I actually still have those Jimmy Choo shoes in my closet as a reminder, the first big girl items that I really ever owned, and they always serve as a reminder to me that the reason that we work so hard in life is not just to accumulate wealth or status. It's so we can treat ourselves and we can treat the people we love, and we can really enjoy our lives and our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so would you do the same lesson with your own children, knowing what you know now?

Randi Zuckerber:
Maybe I would keep the receipt in the box in case they needed to return it to help pay their rent. My mom used to take-

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, did you ever try to return the shoes?

Randi Zuckerber:
No, she purposely would take the receipts home with her so I couldn't, and in those days there wasn't eBay to sell them on or things like that. But honestly, if my kids were motivated and ambitious and driven enough to think of ways to resell them, then that's great, that's teaching them an entrepreneurial lesson.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your money tip, because it's something we haven't talked about here on Financial Grownup, in part because I don't know a lot about it, and that's kind of your point. What is your money tip?

Randi Zuckerber:
So my money tip is to make sure that you're not just focusing all of your effort on learning about the systems that are already in place. Make sure that you're spending some time thinking about the new financial trends that are going to be coming out in the next few years. Specifically I think the biggest trend that's going to hit this industry is cryptocurrency and blockchain. I know I've personally spent a lot of time over the past two years learning about this space and educating myself, and I think it's so important for women especially to learn about this space, because right now only about 2% of cryptocurrency is owned and traded by women. And ladies, what's the use of catching up with our financial knowledge over here if we're then just going to be completely left behind in ten years on the next new thing that's making all of these new millionaires? I don't know about you guys, I don't want to be left out of the next thing that's making all these millionaires, so I think it's really important, even if you're not investing in this space, to at least understand it enough to be able to participate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where is the best place people can learn more about it?

Randi Zuckerber:
I love listening to a lot of podcasts. I actually am so passionate about educating women that I literally just sat in my closet with a microphone this week and recorded a two-hour introduction to Bitcoin and Blockchain that I'm about to release. So I'll definitely give you more information on that, and it's specifically designed to teach women the basics of crypto.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. So now we have where we can go, I will make sure to put the link into the show notes for everyone. So that's your gift to our listeners, thank you so much, Randi. This is great. Okay, so now we get back to what I really want to talk about. So I've got this book here with all of these ... I almost ran out of post-it notes, because I have so many post-it notes in the book, and we have to keep it short because this is a short podcast. But it's basically about being lopsided and being okay with that. And that's almost how you got into college, was just saying, "I'm not going to apologize for not being balanced."

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally, well I think, and I'm sure, Bobbi, when you think about the things in your life you're most proud of, the things you hope we're alive to tell our great-grandkids about, each of us have three or four things on that list that we're super proud of. It's probably not times in your life that you were super well-balanced. For me, that list right now is completing a marathon, singing on Broadway, being part of Facebook, and having my two children, and not one of those four things happened when I had balance in my life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
All of those things happened when I really allowed myself to just go for it and be super lopsided and prioritize a few areas in my life at one time. And so I want to give especially women out there permission to pick three. Pick a few things in your life that you want to prioritize, because there will be other times and other phases to pick other things and round out your life. But just give yourself the permission to go for it and be excellent in whatever you want to do without the guilt.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. One of my favorite areas was when you talk about quick fixes if you're feeling exhausted, and I say that because this book is also very practical, because people feel overwhelmed and there are very specific solutions in the book. Even at the end there's worksheets so that people can make it applicable to their own lives and really make it specific and actionable.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you, well you know, I live in the real world. In an ideal world we'd all be getting a lot of sleep every night, and going to the gym, and spending time with our children every day, and doing all of these things, but at the end of the day we all live in the real world, and I know that there's some days that you just cannot pick sleep. Your kids are sick, you have a deadline at work, there's something going on, you have an early plane to catch, so I tried to also, while encouraging people to pick different areas, also tried to give some hacks to actually get around it and still function in your life if you can't pick that one area.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's three, and the five things that you're picking three from are sleep, work, friends, family and fitness, and the great thing about the book is you break down each one.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes. I try to break it down, and I also really tried to interview a mixture of people across all ages and walks of life. Because if you're in the position that you can pick which areas of your life you want to prioritize then you're in a real state of privilege, that everything in your life is going so well that you can choose. There are a lot of people out there who have life circumstances where they just can't choose what they want to focus on. Life picks for them. And so I wanted to make sure that all different people are represented.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi, where can people find you and learn more about everything you're up to, including Pick Three?

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much, I have been known to be available on a few social media channels.

Bobbi Rebell:
A few.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yup, [inaudible 00:13:14] Facebook, and one's owned by Facebook. But yes, you can find me on Facebook, on Instagram and Twitter, I'm @randizuckerberg, and then Pick Three is available on Amazon or any of your favorite bookstores. I love indie bookstores and promoting them, so go pick it up at a cool indie bookstore near you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all, and keep in touch.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much Bobbi, this is awesome, love your podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, I think we all have a good sense of how Randi stays so grounded despite literally being on the go all the time. I have been personal witness to that. Prioritize and keep perspective.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: You may have noticed that one area of Randi's book really hit me. All of our lives look like so much fun online. So many of us, myself included, have felt a little wistful when we see photos and videos of friends who always seem to be vacationing while in the perfect outfit, and going to a fantastic concert where of course they get to see Beyonce and hang out with her and Jay-Z backstage. Just kidding, but only about part of that. But we are all actually usually happy that they're having fun, it's not necessarily competitive, but still. Remember, it is a curated version of their life. Real life can't be edited, and filters don't work outside of the digital world. Randi's advice that really resonates with me? Flip that back to what you can control, and be a little more intentional about what you post, about the image that you put out there to other people. Don't just post your own perfect moments, try to be more authentic with your social media, and maybe we'll all get the hint and be a little more real.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's all go out and learn about Bitcoin. I said learn, not invest, though you can if it's right for you. The truth is, as Randi said, we may be missing a big opportunity. I always think of famous investors like Warren Buffett who say they don't invest in anything they don't understand. So let's understand and make a decision from a point of understanding and information. I was recently at a retreat called Statement Event, it was women thought leaders, a very small group of us, about 17. We had dinner with a CEO of a company called Empower, and he asked this group of all women how many of us talked about Bitcoin as an investment option for our followers or listeners. The room got silent. He asked, had we really investigated? Nope. I'm going to check out Randi's tutorial, and I will leave the link for you guys as well. Let me know what you think. Make sure to pick up your copy of her new book, Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day) and write a review for Randi. Authors love reviews.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. The show has been growing, so please keep sharing on social media, writing reviews on iTunes aka Apple Podcast, and subscribing if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a money story that you want to share? Maybe a great money tip? We are starting to have listeners as guests once a month, so to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and just tell us what money story and money tip you would share if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, Facebook I am at Bobbi Rebell. Randi Zuckerberg really nailed it in this episode, helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

The Opposite of Spoiled author Ron Lieber dishes on the underground network he tapped into as a teen to ace the financial aid game- and gives a sneak peak into his next book “What to Pay for College".Plus Ron’s secret to getting hot tickets at below market prices- Including the Cubs.

In Ron’s money story you will learn:

-How Ron got the inside track on how to maximize financial aid for college

-How much Ron took out in loans for school and how long it took to pay it back

-Ron’s theory on how grownup’s can help cut through the information overload and  get to the important information

-Insight into how Ron researches his columns for the NYTimes

-The significance of Ron’s mom taking him to meet with "the guy”

In Ron’s money lesson you will learn:

-Ron’s advice on how to learn about the options to pay for college now

-The one thing you should not do that could hurt your ability to get the maximum financial aid

-Why financial aid applications have become so complicated over time

-Specific resources from Ron to learn more about how to pay for college, before his book comes out

In Ron’s money tip you will learn:

-About his love of experiences like concerts and baseball games

-How he is able to get discount tickets to events

-The specific strategy, including the timeline, that Ron uses to get the best prices on tickets

-The best ticket score Ron ever got, and why he was so excited about the show!

In My Take you will learn:

-How I went on a “Mentor Tour” a few years ago, before launching the Financial Grownup brand

-Why I agree with Ron, that consulting people who know more about something that you do, can be the best way to get an edge on a new venture, whether it is college, or launching a business. 

-The value add of an in-person conversation compared to doing internet research

-The importance of making children aware of the costs of higher education, whether or not they pay for part or all of it. 

EPISODE LINKS

Ron Lieber’s website: http://ronlieber.com

Ron’s NY Times Columns: NYTimes.com/Lieber

Get Ron’s book The Opposite of Spoiled

Learn more about Ron’s upcoming book “What to pay for college”

Resources recommended by Ron Lieber

Paying for College without going Broke by Kal Cheney

SavingforCollege.com

Follow Ron!!

Twitter @RonLieber

Instagram @ronlieber

Facebook.com/RonLieberAuthor

 

 StubHub is where Ron goes to get last minute discount tickets!

---

Transcription

Ron Lieber:
Somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to financial grown up with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup and you know what being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's OK. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So Ron Lieber, famous, very famous New York Time's money columnist, super nice guy, also the author of the upcoming book What to Pay for College, the best seller The Opposite of Spoiled. He knew a guy. As he describes it it was basically an underground financial aid information network. This really happened. Before we get to Ron's unbelievable story, can't believe this really happened, I do want to welcome new listeners. And of course welcome back those who are returning. The show's been growing and I'm so happy you guys are spreading the word. So thank you in advance for any more spreading the word that you do. Please tell friends about Financial Grownup if you're enjoying it. I'm also happy that you guys are enjoying the video promos that we do for each episode. A reminder if you want one for you or your business we are having a little competition. Whenever you see the video in social media, share it. Whoever shares it the most between now and July 1st I will make a customized video just for you. So a little experimental competition we're having here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And if you have a great money story, you want to be on the show, we want to hear from you. E-mail us at info at financialgrownup.com, tell us what your money story would be and what your everyday money tip would be and maybe you'll be selected to be featured on the program. We have our first listener episode coming up soon. Now to Ron Lieber. My first exposure to his writing came when I read his bestselling book The Opposite of Spoiled, Raising Kids Who Are Grounded, Generous and Smart About Money. And yes I have used his strategies in my own home. I am also now an avid fan of his New York Times column, Your Money. In it Ron sheds light on issues that touch so many of us and with real solid reporting behind it. So that's something as a journalist I really value and appreciate. He's really good at what he does and as a parent I can't wait to read his upcoming book What to Pay for College. An entirely new guide to the biggest financial decision your family will ever make. But first you get to hear this story about a guy. Here is Ron lever.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Ron Lieber, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Ron Lieber:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're so excited to have you. You are the author of one of my favorite books, The Opposite of Spoiled which has set the standard for so many families including my own. We have our three save/spend/give jars in our house for my 10 year old. So thank you for that. And I know you have a new project.

Ron Lieber:
Yes I'm working on a book right now called What To Pay For College which is all about when if ever it is worth paying more than whatever your flagship state university costs for a private college or an out of state public university or something else entirely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Something we all need to be thinking about. What I want to hear for your money story though is about your experience when you were younger visiting the financial aid consultant with your mom when you were a senior in high school. Tell us what happened.

Ron Lieber:
So there I was. 1988. Chicago, Illinois. Already a scholarship kid at the K to 12 private school I attended back then. We didn't know very much about financial aid, somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see it in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Ron Lieber:
[crosstalk 00:04:26] God forsaken FAFSA form. Yeah, he knew exactly what he was talking about. I got into college at Amherst early decision, got a fantastic financial aid package and graduated with under $10,000 in student loan debt which wasn't all that much at the time and got it paid off in 10 years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, but we got to go back Ron. So what are some of the secrets that he told you?

Ron Lieber:
It was a reminder that there is always some financial grownup out there in the world who has the information that you seek and quite often if you just had the guts to pick up the phone or show up in their office maybe with a little bit of cash on the barrel that person will tell you the secrets of whatever code you're trying to crack, whatever system you're trying to beat. There is a grownup out there somewhere who can help you. And you know every time I go out and write a column for The Times I'm looking for that one financial grownup who has the answer and they're always out there somewhere.

Ron Lieber:
But the second thing and maybe the most important thing here came from the fact that my mother took me there in the first place. She could have left me at home. She might have felt anxiety about the situation we were in or ashamed that we were going to have to go hat in hand to all these schools you know asking for money. But she felt like I at the age of 17 ought to have a front row seat for that process because it was going to be my education and my debt. And I tried to remember that when I'm tempted to shield my older daughter who's now 12 from whatever financial dilemma that my family is facing. She's old enough to hear a fair bit of this and I want her to understand.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever circled back to your mom and asked her why she took you in and what was going on in her mind at that time?

Ron Lieber:
You know I did a couple of years ago as I started thinking about this guy again. I actually tracked him down on the plains of Colorado where he's gone to retire from financial aid. And he remembered me and we chatted about it and he said the thing that always surprised him was when the parents came without the kid. So you know he gave my mom great credit. And you know my mom to her credit to this day you know doesn't shield me from you know any financial dilemma she's facing.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did she find this guy?

Ron Lieber:
The people at my private high school in Chicago just did not know a ton about financial aid and how it worked. But they said there's this guy. And you know it was literally a slip of paper with the guy's phone number on it, I'm not even sure there was a name and you know I just dialed the suburban Chicago area code and he picks up and he said yeah you know come to this address next Tuesday and bring me my money and we'll talk. And it was like a financial aid underground.

Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners now in 2018, what is the lesson from that? What's the takeaway?

Ron Lieber:
I think you always have to turn over every rock and talk to every person who might have information that can help you. Don't be ashamed of the fact that you don't understand. Every single last one of these financial systems that we encounter in our daily life is complex. Often they are complex by design. Sometimes they're complex by accident right. In the case of the financial aid industry loan systems, you know layers of people over the decades have layered you know different levels of complexity onto this. All in the hope that they can help some or another student who might be disadvantaged by the last layer that was laid on right. What we end up with is you know eight student loan programs and nine different income driven repayment plans and you know two different ways the financial aid is calculated at most colleges and it's really confusing so ask for help, you know express your ignorance and demand information. Right. I mean if you're approaching a system that has a sticker price of over $300,000 now at the most expensive selective colleges. You have a right to demand more information and to get some answers so don't be sheepish about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there specific resources that you would recommend?

Ron Lieber:
Well here's the problem right and the reason I'm working on What to Pay for College is that I don't actually believe that the perfect resource exists. But if you're looking for like nuts and bolts of financial aid I really like Cal Cheney's book Paying for College Without Going Broke. It's about the best book that I've seen about the financial aid system. And if you're thinking about saving for college and how to do that the book that the folks at savingforcollege.com published is quite good if you want to know about the ins and outs of 529 plans and all of the various complexities there and there are a fair number.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right well this is why we need your book. I'm going to hear more about your book in a second but I want to just get to your money tip because we talked before we started recording and you apparently have a concert ticket problem. And I think a lot of people can relate to this, especially coming into the summer, it's time we all like to go see our favorite artist. Tell us Ron.

Ron Lieber:
I'm constantly wrestling with you know how much should I spend for the possibility of you know close up literally experience that's going to make me happy. I do often snipe my way through StubHub. So instead of buying tickets you know weeks or even months ahead of time if it's something where I'm pretty sure there's still going to be a lot of tickets at the end I will wait and I will wait and I will wait until sometimes less than an hour before showtime or before play ball. You know and buy my tickets as I watch the prices fall in ten minute increments, you know every five minutes. You know that was how I saw Phish on New Year's Eve a couple of years ago for not very much at all. Of course there's always some risk involved that all the tickets will disappear. But you can watch and see. You know are there dozens left, hundreds or thousands. Right. Are the tickets disappearing quickly or not. You know you can keep track, make a little spreadsheet for yourself as you watch as the date or the hour approaches. You know but what I often see with concerts is that you know the price will start falling relatively quickly you know within a couple hours of showtime. You know then you just grab the point at which you feel comfortable paying the price. And at that point you can generally download the tickets instantly.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what's been your best score?

Ron Lieber:
I think the best score was probably those Phish tickets on New Year's Eve. Although whenever the Cubs come to town to play the Mets as they are doing in a week or so here in New York City I'll often use this method as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. So you are actually on a break from your full time job at the New York Times because you're working on your new project. Tell us more about that.

Ron Lieber:
Sure. So the book is called What To Pay For College, it will be out sometime in 2020. No pre-orders yet. You know for anybody who's interested in kind of where I'm heading with it you know you can find hints of it in the columns that I've written for The Times about higher education. You know I read a handful each year and my archive is at nytimes.com/lieber and the book questions I'm asking are born of really a half decade of observation where without anyone really noticing the rack rate at the most expensive private schools top $300,000 for four years, flagship state universities now regularly cost $100,000 dollars or more for four years. You've got a $200,000 difference between those two things. That's per child after taxes. Almost nobody can save that much money. This is insane.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. It is insane.

Ron Lieber:
Yeah so the question then becomes what if anything are you actually getting for that $200? And if you go asking those questions at the more expensive colleges they will look at you cross-eyed and if you ask for data to prove that the extra $200,000 is worth it and there are a lot of different ways to potentially define worth, which I'm exploring in my reporting, if you just ask that right, well why do you think it's worth it and show me some numbers right. Here we are in the era of big data where you can get a ton of information about your social plan or about your car or about the house you want to buy, you can just round in data on all that stuff. There is almost no data about what happens to you when you're at college and what happens to you afterwards. And it is my suspicion that the colleges actually like it that way because in the absence of data we make decisions on the basis of snobbery. Private is better than public.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true.

Ron Lieber:
Right, you know ivy covered walls are better than you know concrete 1970s Britos architecture. Right. So I'm going down all these rows and asking all of the impertinent questions and I'm going to have a lot to say about it very soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right well I'm hoping you can hook me up with a preview sometime soon because I will need to read that. I've got kids in college so I am very excited about this new project. Where can people find you and learn more about what you're writing in the meantime?

Ron Lieber:
Sure. Www.ronlieber.com, there's a big fat contact button for anybody who has a story to share about how they and their family decided what they should pay for college.

Bobbi Rebell:
And on social media?

Ron Lieber:
@RonLieber all over the place, you know on Twitter, on Instagram and the Facebook community that I run on parenting and money is at Facebook.com, Ron Lieber author.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome, thank you so much Ron. This has been amazing.

Ron Lieber:
It was a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Ron's sincerity is contagious and his book is definitely needed. As he mentioned he wants to hear from all of you about your experiences. So share yours with him, as he said all the info is at his Web site, ronlieber.com. Here's my take on what Ron shared with us. Financial grownup tip number one. As Ron said, there is a grownup there who can help you. Don't be afraid to reach out to older and/or more experienced people for help. Yes, the internet does have a lot of information but not always context. Sometimes just getting the scoop from a person, someone, who's got the dirt on whatever you need to know can be really meaningful, they can cut through a lot of the junk out there. Ask someone, call someone you know, ask someone who they would recommend that you talk to, set a meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
When I was figuring out what I wanted to do after years of being a television anchor I went on what I jokingly called a mentor tour, setting up face to face meetings with anyone I admired who would generously give me their time and asking them who else I should talk to. And trust me mo internet research can take the place of the kind of information download that you can get from sitting face to face with somebody and asking them what they think, what their experience has been and what they think you should do. People are generous so take advantage of that. That will be good.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Financial grownup tip number two. Ron points out the significance of the fact that his mom took him with her to meet the guy. Ron learned that financial aid wasn't going to just appear. He knew that he was a stakeholder in the process and he appreciated the money that much more. We all want to shield our kids from the reality of our financial fragility but if we can get past our egos we do them a service by keeping them in the loop and making them aware of what it really takes to pay for college.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for spending part of your day with us. We make these podcasts relatively short to fit into your busy schedule but also so you can listen to a few in a row when it makes sense like during your commute, if you're watching your kids do an activity or just chilling out and you want to listen to a little bit more. You can listen to three or four at a time, make 45 minutes, listen to four, it could be an hour. Whatever works for you. The goal is to make it fit in with what you're doing and fit your life. If you enjoy the show please help us grow. We need you. Tell a friend, write a review on Apple Podcasts and follow us on social media. I am @BobbiRebell on Twitter, BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. Ron's new book can't come soon enough but I'm glad he gave us a sneak peek. And by the way also a great strategy for discount tickets so thanks Ron for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Consultant Julie Finn loved her her consumer products strategy career and says  her employer, Deloitte, did everything possible to accommodate her lifestyle needs as a mom. So no one was more surprised  than she was when she opted for an early exit strategy. 

In Julie’s money story you will learn:

-How Julie left two major jobs but each one was a completely different exit strategy

-Julie’s strategy of applying the same financial criteria to job choices as wel do to other major financial choices like buying a home.

-How Julie’s employer, Deloitte, was family friendly and did what they could to accommodate her needs. 

-Why the decision to leave was not an obvious one

-The advice she received from mentors that led her to her life changing decision

In Julie’s money lesson you will learn:

-As well-intentioned as an employer may be- the job may not be a fit forever

-Age should not hold you back from leaving a job that is no longer the right fit for your goals and needs

-The importance of structure and planning in making a major career shift- and how to get it

In Julie’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The importance of continuing to learn even as you progress through your career

-The value of online courses as well as coaching

-How to save money on skill building education

-Not to try to go it alone- reach and and get the right help

-How to make decisions about priorities when it comes to investing in further career education

Bobbi and Julie also talk about:

-The Working Mothers Mentor Podcast

-Julie’s career coaching for executive women

-How side hustles can help in the decision making process

-How listeners can support working moms, especially who don’t know where to get the help they need

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of a gracious exit from a company

-Why it is important strategically to stay in touch and on good terms with co-workers and supervisors even after you leave the job

-Ways to get discounts on online education courses

Episode Links

Learn more about Julie Finn and The Working Mother’s Mentor:

Theworkingmothersmentor

Follow Julie!

Twitter @mothersmentor

Instagram @theworkingmothersmentor

Facebook The Working Mothers Mentor + join her community!

 

 

IRS info on education deductions

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc513

 

This is a quick way to determine if you can get an education credit

https://www.irs.gov/help/ita/am-i-eligible-to-claim-an-education-credit

 

Udemy https://www.udemy.com/

Coursera https://www.coursera.org/

Teachable www.teachable.com

---

Transcription

Julie Finn:
You know when I took a job, in my head it was my forever job. It was, "I'm going to retire from this company." Because I had the structure, because I had the support, I had a very clear plan and I had very clear strategy in place and that made all the difference.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up. With me, financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends. I remember my first day at my first post college job as what was called a news associate at CNBC and thinking, and this is true, "This is literally the best job on the planet. I can't believe I got the job. There's money associated. It comes every two weeks. I would literally be happy doing this job forever." I wanted it to be my forever job. I hope you guys have all had that feeling, the excitement and optimism of working somewhere you hope you can stay forever.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Julie Finn at Deloit. She climbed her way up in the consumer product strategy field and had finally made it. They were super family friendly there. Whatever she needed, they were going to work with her to make it happen. But then, something changed. We'll get to that in a sec.

Bobbi Rebell:
But just quickly, welcome to our new listeners. So excited the show continues to be discovered and thank you to all of you regulars for sharing it. Please keep telling your friends. Word of mouth is everything. It is the best way for people to find out about our program. It matters a lot. We keep it short, as you guys know, around 15 minutes, but a lot of our listeners like to stack a few together. Think of it like flex time for podcasts.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Julie. She is a business coach and host of the Working Mother's Mentor Podcast, but it was not long ago that she was in what she thought was her forever job, until we now know, it wasn't. The story gets really interesting. Here is Julie Finn.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Julie Finn. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Julie Finn:
Bobbi, thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm excited to learn so much from you because you are a business coach and you host the Working Mother Mentors Podcast, which is very popular. I hear you have some great guests on there.

Julie Finn:
Like you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've actually turned a lot of your life experience into things that you are teaching so many others so that's great. Congratulations on all your success.

Julie Finn:
Thank you. I really appreciate it. It's been quite a journey. It's so fulfilling to be able to do work that you love and to know that you're serving others and empowering and inspiring others so it's been fantastic.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you brought a money story with you that has to do with something that can be very delicate and really has to be handled the right way in order to have the right financial future, financial exit, I should say and that is my not so sophisticated way of saying that you're going to talk about exit strategies and the different ways that you've handled them at different points in your career. Go for it.

Julie Finn:
Yes. That's exactly right and that's funny because when you sit down and think about it, career choices, the choices to take a job or to leave a job, are really some of the most important financial decisions that we make, but we often don't frame them that way. We frame buying a house or making an investment as a financial decision, but oftentimes when we think about career, we don't think about it that way. Particularly for those of us who have made decisions around leaving jobs later in our careers. I have two big leaps. One in my 30s and one in my 40s and those are massive decisions. When I look back over those choices that I've made, it's interesting to see how I've matured and I approached it very differently when I was in my 40s than I did when I was in my 30s.

Bobbi Rebell:
So let's get specific. Tell us what happened.

Julie Finn:
So when I was in my 30s, when I was making the decision to leave a job, it was really based on the fact that I'd just had my first child. I wanted to go part-time. I wasn't able to do that. I felt backed into a corner. It wasn't a positive, happy, leave. It wasn't a leave that was planned in advance. It wasn't strategized. It was more of a leap versus fast forward about ten years. I really worked hard with the company, and it was Deloit and they were super family friendly. They tried very hard to accommodate what I needed at that stage.

Julie Finn:
What I found is that dropping to part-time, which is what my intermediate solution was, wasn't the silver bullet that I envisioned it to be. I think for a lot of working moms, we think, "Wouldn't it be great if we could have a big corporate job with full benefits and work part-time and work from home?" That for me was the holy grail. It's what I had written down on a piece of paper that's what I wanted. That's what Deloit provided for me.

Julie Finn:
The decision to leave was not an obviously one. It was a really difficult one because I had a "good job". I knew that if I was going to make a leap from a job like that, it had to be based on something really compelling pulling me, and it had to be based on a really logical strategy.

Julie Finn:
What I did this time in making that decision, is I got support. I worked with coaches. I took online courses. I went to conferences. I made sure that I surrounded myself with others who made similar decisions. I sought out support from my mentors. It made the decision a positive one and it made the transition a successful one.

Julie Finn:
I found that even though I loved my company and I had a great time, I wasn't passionate about the work and I knew there was other work I wanted to be doing. Historically, I did consumer product strategy which is great training and I got to work with a lot of great clients and great people, but what I'm passionate about is inspiring and supporting women, particularly professional women in living the big life that they are here on earth to live, to overcome the fears and the doubts, to stand in their power.

Julie Finn:
I got frustrated working with so many really smart women who would doubt themselves and who often were making trade offs when children came into the mix and they didn't really know how to handle it. That's part of the reason why I started the Working Mothers Mentor, first as the podcast, to give people inspiring stories behind the scenes of really successful people to show you not only how they juggle everything but how they made career decisions, how they built their business, and to show you the messiness, not just the shiny, glossy stuff that you often see. Then also providing actual support through programs and coaching.

Julie Finn:
So the transition from Deloit has been a really positive one.

Bobbi Rebell:
And part of the takeaway of that is as good willed and as well intentioned as the company may be, that does not mean it is your forever job.

Julie Finn:
That's exactly right and that's part of the reason why it was such a hard decision because I was already over 40. When I took a job, in my head it was my forever job. It was, "I'm going to retire from this company." So making that decision to leap into entrepreneurship in my mid 40s, for a lot of people, it's a very scary time to make any kind of massive career change.

Julie Finn:
For me, part of my tip for people, is make sure if you're making any kind of pivot or massive change that you don't try to do it unsupported and you don't try to do it unguided.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from your story of leaving Deloit for your own entrepreneurial adventure?

Julie Finn:
The real lesson is don't make any big leap of any big decision unsupported and unguided. I think when I look back over the different decisions I've made in my career, early in my career I often felt like I was winging it whereas with this leap, because I had the structure, because I had the support, I had a very clear plan and I had very clear strategy in place and that made all the difference.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your every day money tip because that also goes along this theme but let's get very specific. What is it? What could people do?

Julie Finn:
I think it's very important for us all, all professionals whatever level you are, to continue to invest in yourself in terms of your education and your access to expertise. What I mean by that is in addition to reading books and having mentors, think about online courses, think about investing in a coach, think about going to conferences. I think for a lot of us, particularly when the busyness of family life and trying to keep our career on track, when that comes in development seems to disappear. We might do something in our company. They'll have professional development but I'm talking about you personally, things that are important for you.

Julie Finn:
For me, like I said, part of what made the decision easier is the fact that I invested. I took online courses to improve the skills where I needed. I invested in coaches to give me the confidence where I needed it, to give me the push where I needed it, to give me the guidance where I needed. The important lesson here is don't try to go it alone. Make sure that you continue to invest in yourself and that way when you are making these big decisions you're completely educated around them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now are the ways that people who maybe tight on money can better afford these things because it can get expensive and where is the balance there? Because you're struggling to pay your bills, you want to build up things like and emergency fund so you maybe can take the leap to be an entrepreneur. How do you know how much is the right amount to spend in time and money.

Julie Finn:
That's a really great question. In terms of time, I think for a lot of us, we would say we don't have enough time. So it is about making the decision to prioritize. I think when you take a step back and look, you can certainly find maybe it's two hours a week, maybe it's for a season, maybe it's a weekend conference. It's about the prioritization, making the time.

Julie Finn:
In terms of money, we should all start to work on having a development part of our budget. Again, if you take a look at your budget and if you look at things that maybe you're spending money on, getting your nails done, or getting your hair done, or something that feels maybe a little bit less necessarily. If you took some of those resources and invested in attending a conference or working with a coach or if you can't afford a coach one on one, investing in a group coaching program. That's often a way to have access to a very seasoned, experienced coach but without having to pay the fee that you would pay for one on one attention.

Julie Finn:
I think the other thing is there are a lot of great platforms where you can access online platforms that are less expensive like Udemy, Teachable. So you can find courses for as little as $69. Some of the more sophisticated courses obviously can cost you a thousand, two thousand dollars, but you can get started with any budget.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much. So tell us more about what's going on with you, because I know you offer some of this.

Julie Finn:
Yeah. We're having a great time over at the Working Mothers Mentors. In addition to the podcast, we have a group coaching program that's launching soon. That's really designed to support women who are considering leaving their corporate jobs in order to start a business either as what a lot of people affectionately call a side hustle or to fully replace their full time income. We also offer group coaching and one on one coaching programs. The idea is really to support working moms who often feel like they're juggling so much and they don't really know where to go for support. That's really our mission.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you a few years ago? I needed you so much. I'm so happy that you're here now though doing all this for so many people that will really benefit from it.

Julie Finn:
Thank you so much. That's exactly why I do it. I needed me ten years ago and I needed me again three years ago and I couldn't find me and so I decided to become me. So thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before I let you go, tell us all the social channels and where people can find you.

Julie Finn:
Our website is theworkingmothersmentor.com and that's a great hub to find out more about our coaching programs, to find out more about the podcast. The podcast also called the Working Mother's Mentor. You can certainly access on any platform where you currently listen to podcasts like your podcast. On social, you can find you on Facebook and Instagram @theworkingmothersmentor. Twitter @mothersmentor and me personally, Julie Finn, on LinkedIn.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're the best, Julie.

Julie Finn:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So companies have a long way to go towards keeping more women in the workplace, but Julie's story at least shows real progress at some. No hard feelings, it just didn't work out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip #1: If and when you leave a company, take a we from Julie and be gracious. As great as Julie's story is, sometimes we don't have the best feelings when we leave a job, and it is really tempting to let them have it, but the truth is, those former coworkers and bosses could well become the best assets you have in your future business ventures.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip #2: Julie mentioned the importance of investing in continuing education throughout your career. You know I'm a big fan of this. Many online courses are actually free and those that are not often go on sale. Sometimes your employer will pay for your classes. Make sure that you know if there are any requirements like getting a certain grade. If your employer does not pay, you can also often deduct education from your taxes if it meets certain criteria.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm going to leave some links in the show notes bobbirebell.com/podcast/JuliFinn. I was also leave links to some popular online course websites like Udemy, which often has sales as I mentioned, classes can be under $10 there, and Coursera which has partnerships with universities including my alma mater, Penn.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to Julie for candidly sharing her amicable breakup. It is one thing to storm out of a job you hate. It's another to just well not be that into it anymore and leave in search of finding your true love in terms of your career.

Bobbi Rebell:
So thank you to Julie for helping us realize sometimes life isn't so clear cut and getting us one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

 Legendary entrepreneur Shelley Zalis, Founder and CEO of The Female Quotient, The Girls Lounge, FQ Talent and FQ Impact, knew she needed to be fearless when she started her first company Online Testing Exchange. So when her relatives offered to fund the venture, she turned down the money, choosing instead to go to outside investors. 

 

In Shelley’s money story you will learn:

-How she had an idea to disrupt the online research field

-The pivotal decision she had to make when it came to raising the million dollars she needed to get her company started

-The concerns she had about her ability to take risks with family financing

-How her strong track record and achievements in the industry allowed her relatively easy access to financing her dream company

-Examples of specific risks she was able to take because she was not emotionally connected to her funding

In Shelley’s money lesson you will learn:

-The danger of being greedy and not wanting to share equity by taking outside financing

-The importance of making bold decisions and not playing it too safe when starting and building a business

In Shelley’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The best ways to manage giving

-Shelley’s strategy to make sure the businesses she supports get the financing they need

-How Shelley makes sure her donations are always used as she intended

Bobbi and Shelley also talk about:

-Her latest venture, The Female Quotient

-The growing components of The Female Quotient including The Girls Lounge

-How The Female Quotient evolved from the Intelligence Quotient, and then the Emotional Quotient

-Men are welcome in the Girls Lounge

-The Girls Lounge is launching permanently on university campuses in over 122 countries

-FQ Talent and FQ Impact will launch soon

In My Take you will learn:

-The way to apply Shelley’s strategy to businesses you want to support

-Strategies to gain the experience and industry respect to be able to get others to buy in to your dreams when you go looking for funding

 

Episode links

Learn more about The Female Quotient https://www.thefemalequotient.com/

Follow Shelley and The Female Quotient!

Twitter: @shelleyzalis  @wearetfq

Instagram @shelleyzalis @wearetfq

Facebook: Shelley Zalis  The Female Quotient

---

Transcription

Shelley Zalis:
I thought well if I take my husband's and my parent's money, I would be too afraid to take chances. We always say, if you're building something new, you gotta be bold and brave and willing to take risks and fail before you succeed, but failure wouldn't have been an option and I did not want to play it safe. I needed to go way out there and take some significant risk.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of 'How To Be a Financial Grown up'. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grownups. It sounds like a dream come true to be able to avoid outside financing when you're starting a business. Keep it in the family, right? But let's be honest, how much risk would you really take with your parents or your spouse's money? And as our guest Shelley Zalis makes very clear, you need that risk to succeed. Not all money is created equal when it comes to funding startups. Welcome everyone. The show continues to grow, so thanks to all of you who have been telling your friends. If you're new, we work on flextime here. The podcast runs about 15 minutes or so. So pretty much anyone can fit it into their schedule, but if you have more time, go ahead and binge.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about Shelley Zalis. I first met her or should I say I first witnessed Shelley taking total command of a room of mesmerized women about a year ago. I was fortunate to be included in a dinner that she hosted and have been in awe ever since. She is a force. She is a disruptor in the online research business with OTX, Online Testing Exchange, that was her first company and now is taking aim at equality with The Female Quotient. Here is Shelley Zalis.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Shelley Zalis, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Shelley Zalis:
Oh, thank you. I hope I never grow up though, because once you're grown up, you feel you never have the opportunity to keep learning and I learn every day. So I hope that I never grow up. I guess I'm like Peter Pan-

Bobbi Rebell:
Just financially.

Shelley Zalis:
Okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you can find all your youthful adventures, right?

Shelley Zalis:
I'll take it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Shelley Zalis:
Perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm a huge fan of your company. You're CEO of The Female Quotient, which of course encompasses the Girls' Lounge. Tell us just a little bit about what it is before we get to your money story.

Shelley Zalis:
Thank you. First of all, I am your greatest fan 'cause you make every conversation, whether it's complicated or easy, fun, interactive, engaging-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well thank you.

Shelley Zalis:
And with solutions for change. So thank you for doing what you do as well. The Female Quotient, the name came ... first came the Intelligence Quotient, IQ, then the Emotional Quotient EQ, now the Female Quotient, FQ. When you put women in any equation, the equation gets better so that we can start creating solutions around diversity. We say that diversity is good for business and yet we're going backwards. So The Female Quotient is in the business of equality and we have four key pillars, the Girls' Lounge. There's a boys club, why not have a girls' lounge, a place where the minority acts and feels like the majority. Men are welcome, but they come into our world with our rules and they all feel comfortable. And we will be launching a permanent Girls' Lounge on university campuses in over 122 countries. And then we'll also be launching the FQ Talent, a talent business for corporate women to bring more visibility to women doing remarkable things. And then we also have a practice of equality, helping companies become a quality fit because we can help women all we want, but if we don't rewrite the rules than women will continue to fall out in middle management or what we call the messy middle. And then the fourth is the FQ Impact, which is our giving back with generosity really to women in developing markets.

Bobbi Rebell:
All this costs money and a lot of that money came from Online Testing Exchange, which you built earlier in your career. You have a money ... Sort of share with us about a strategic decision that you made, a psychological strategic decision you made about how to finance your first business venture. Tell us your money story, Shelley.

Shelley Zalis:
I needed a million dollars because I met a 21 year old. I was doing website testing, usability testing and I thought, "What if we migrate research from offline to online?" And I said to him, "Trevor, why don't you build this for me?" I said, "But I have no money." And I said, "But the second someone gives you money, I'll give you a million dollars. So believe in me, invest in me and I will give it back in a very significant way." And so I needed a million dollars and I had two options, go to a big company and get them to buy in, or my husband and my father both agree to give me half a million dollars to realize my dream and they believed in me.

Shelley Zalis:
I thought about that. I thought well that's the easy way just to go to my family, but it was gonna be hard. My husband was just starting out in medicine. We did not have that kind of money. We would have been putting everything in our savings account into this and of course my father wanted to help out. And I thought well, if I take my husband's and my parent's money, I would be too afraid to take chances. We always say if you're building something new, you gotta be bold and brave and willing to take risks and fail before you succeed. But failure wouldn't have been an option if I had my family's option and I did not want to play it safe. I needed to go way out there and take some significant risk and so I did not take their money and I went to Nielsen and they were the first to fund me. And as soon as they said yes, I handed a 21 year old a million dollar check.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you already had a relationship with Nielsen?

Shelley Zalis:
Yep. I went to Nielsen. I said, "I have a big idea." And they said, "Great. What do you need?" I said, "I need a million dollars." And that is the check that I gave to this young man that just said yes to me, believed in me, not knowing what the results would become. But what I had was passion and purpose and an unstoppable mindset. And I went in saying, "I really want to try something new. I don't know if it's gonna work, but if it does, it's certainly gonna be a game changer." And I sold that same company three times. So they took a good risk and they also got a great reward as a result of saying yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you look back at those early days, do you feel that there are risks that you took? Is there a specific example you can think of, of a risk that you took that you may have been more hesitant to take had you been financed by your relatives, by your husband and your ... well really, you and your husband and your father?

Shelley Zalis:
Absolutely. The first risk I took when I got to Nielsen was I said to Nielsen, "Not only do we need to pay this young man a million dollars, but I'm going to go break into the movie business." I was very well known in the consumer packaged good business, but I decided to go after the movie business because they had two and a half minute trailers versus just 30 second spots. They tested a lot of content and they needed data within 48 hours and security was very important for them, because you could close the movie before it opens if people panned the trailer. And so I thought if I could build a system around the hardest thing possible than doing 30 second spots for products that are womb to tomb would be very simple. So I said to Nielsen, "I'm gonna go to the studios and everything they're testing offline ..." And there was a monopoly. One guy owned the research business for the movie ... for the movie industry. I said, "Everything they test offline, I want to parallel test for free online so I could calibrate the scores and build the model and build the technology that would work." And that was very risky and that was very expensive and I wouldn't have been able to take those chances if I couldn't go way out there and build the [echo system 00:08:06] very quickly by parallel testing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Versus if you were investing ... If you had your father's money and your husband's money, you would have been watching every penny and maybe been a lot more reluctant to do something like that.

Shelley Zalis:
I would have played it safe and if you play it safe, there's no way you'll be really the first to own something. And I always said to myself, "I need to be the first, the second and the third." The first has to come up with this big idea, but they usually lose. So if I took my father and husband's money, I probably would have lost. So the first always comes up with a big idea. You have to make the investment, but you don't reap the benefit because the second one comes in, they copy everything you did, but they don't really know what's under the hood, and the third is the sweeper. You've now built an [echo system 00:08:53], everyone is buying in. They get the money and they win.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for our listeners, what is the takeaway here? What is the lesson for them, how they can apply it to their own lives?

Shelley Zalis:
Well I think number one, don't be greedy. Like had I've taken my husband's money and my father's money, I would have ... the equity would have stayed in the family and that was the positive. But the negative was I would have been risk averse and failure would not have been an option for me, and there is no companies that succeed building something that doesn't exist if you're not willing to fail before you succeed. Number two, when you are pioneering something that's never been done before, make sure you set yourself up in your own mind that you will have freedom to color out of the lines, that you're not gonna play it safe. You've gotta be bold, you've gotta be brave, you've gotta be willing to take chances, and you do need a partner that will support that mindset.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Let's talk about your everyday money tip now though, because it sort of flips where you're seated. Because now instead of being the one receiving the money, now you're in a position to support businesses that you believe in.

Shelley Zalis:
I once had someone come to me, they needed $100,000.00 to create a project that I thought was very worthwhile. And so of course I gave them $10,000.00 and I said, "Here's $10,000.00 towards the hundred thousand." As it turns out, they never raised the additional $90,000.00 that they needed and I never got my money back, and that really bothered me. That's hard worked money for me that I really gave to this organization to make something happen. So now I designate all of my giving and so if someone needs 100,000 and I'm planning to give 10, I will say to them, "You go get your 90,000 and I will give you the last 10 so that I know the project is a go." Or I will designate my giving. Of I'm gonna give 10,000 to something, I will buy three dogs sniffing dogs or I will buy three rehabilitation machines in Tel HaShomer Hospital or for my children's bar in Bar Mitzvahs. I said to them, "10% of what you get for your Bar Mitzvah, we're gonna give to an organization." And we built a gym for handicapped children and my kids were able to go and see that that actually happened. Because when you can see the results of your giving, you want to give more.

Shelley Zalis:
My mother always used to tell me that giving is like wearing a new pair of shoes. When you put them on the first time, it pinches but the more you wear them, the more comfortable you get. Like I just was at the MAKERS Conference recently and I met a young girl. She's 12 years old from India living in Colorado and she found a technology, a way to remove lead from water and she needed $25,000.00 for her dream and I thought, if they're asking everyone in the audience and someone says, "I'll give you 500, I'll give you a thousand." She might've ended up with 3,000 out of 25 and one, it would have been discouraging for her and two, she would not have been able to realize her dreams. If I'm gonna give, I want to know that it's gonna make a difference and help you go where you need to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. All right, Shelley. Let's talk quickly about the Girls' Lounge and The Female Quotient and what is happening in the rest of 2018.

Shelley Zalis:
Oh, thank you. So we are doing Girls' Lounge popups. It is a space, as I said before, where the minority acts and feels like the majority. A space for women to connect, collaborate, activate, change together, but more importantly to support each other and have unplugged conversations. So we have popups at pretty much every major industry. We will be rolling out on college campuses starting in September. We already opened two, but we'll be opening 200 universities at a time. We have access to 3,800 universities in 122 countries. Our FQ talent business will be launched in about three months. We are building it right now with wire frames.

Bobbi Rebell:
What will that be?

Shelley Zalis:
It will be a talent agency for senior women, placing women in keynotes. I'm just so sick of hearing that there's no women for keynote speeches-

Bobbi Rebell:
I know. I've heard that too, Shelley. It's amazing.

Shelley Zalis:
It's ridiculous. We have all the women, the women are all here. We have over 17,000 corporate women in our community that are all bad ass in their own regard with their own stories to tell. So no excuses. Sorry, not sorry. There's plenty of women. So if you don't find them, then that's just a poor excuse for not moving forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
Shelley, where can people find out more about all of this and be in touch with you and your team?

Shelley Zalis:
Thank you. You can follow us on social @shelleyzalis or @wearetfq and you can find us ... our website is The Female Quotient.

Bobbi Rebell:
Shelley, this has been amazing. Thank you so much.

Shelley Zalis:
Bobbi, you're amazing. Thank you for sharing our journey.

Bobbi Rebell:
All I can say is one day I hope I have the means to be able to make someone's dreams come true the way Shelley does. It's pretty incredible, but take her advice to heart. Financial grownup tip number one, when giving to a startup, maybe your friend is starting a business, has a page on Kickstarter. Don't be afraid to take a step back and see how they raised funds from other people first. If you wanna give something to show your support early on, well maybe make a small donation, but hold back and know what happens to your money if the project is not fully funded. Financial grownup tip number two, Shelley talks about being fearless and taking risks. But take that in the context of the fact that she already had a ton of experience in the industry. She knew what she was doing. Companies like Nielsen don't just hand you a million dollars. You need to know your stuff and have the credibility and the experience.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks so much for joining us. If you have not already, please subscribe and while you're there, make sure to go to settings and select auto downloads. You don't have to worry about missing any episodes and I want to hear your thoughts. DM on Instagram at bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell, and of course, sign up for our newsletter more about the podcast at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Shelley Zalis, truly fearless and so inspiring. Thank you Shelley for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Geometry of Wealth author Brian Portnoy invested time and money in an academic career, but made a career change that got a lot of backlash. But looking back that judgement only makes him more sure he made the right move. 

In Brian’s money story you will learn:

-How and why he made a major career change after investing years of time and money

-His candid thoughts about the field he left, and why it did not live up to his admittedly unrealistic expectations

-The financial and social reality of academic life

-How he was able to detach from external expectations of him by colleagues, family and friends

-The role long-term relationships and staying connected played in his ability to shift his career

-Why he had not been more informed before choosing his initial career

-How his life, and his happiness changed once he moved to the new and higher paying job

In Brian’s money lesson you will learn:

-If a situation doesn’t feel right, it’s better to make the change

-Trust your gut if it doesn’t feel right

-Have the courage of your convictions to move forward

In Brian’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How giving money can create contentment

-Research shows that people who demonstrate generosity tend to be happier

-What Brian calls constructively selfish- when you tip more to someone that needs the money more than you. 

In My Take you will learn:

-My candid thoughts about not fully understanding the financial limitations of the career I chose

-Understanding not just the potential financial pay of an industry but also the culture and how that aligns with your values

Brian and Bobbi also talk about:

-Brian’s latest book “The Geometry of Wealth"

-What he means when he talks about a life of funded contentment

-How his book cuts through jargon

-The importance of defining what makes us happy before we start diving into investing

Episode Links

Learn ore about Brian at shapingwealth.com

Pick up a copy of Brian’s book: The Geometry of Wealth

Follow Brian!

Twitter @brianportnoy

LinkedIn Brian Portnoy

 

---

Transcription

Brian Portnoy:
Most other people don't care. Your family cares, a few friends care, but for the most part, recognize that even if they say something negative or they put you down, they're not thinking about you before or after that conversation. They're just going on in their own life, and so you really don't owe them really any of your emotional energy.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. That was Geometry of Wealth author Brian Portnoy talking about a controversial career change he made, leaving an academic path that he had invested in both time and money, for a job in finance, and the judgment he faced by colleagues. He gets into some very candid comments that may surprise you to hear them actually said out loud. I'm curious to hear your reaction here, so please DM me after you listen and let me know what you think. On Instagram I'm @BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter @BobbiRebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
With that, let's get going. Here is Brian Portnoy. Hey Brian Portnoy, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Brian Portnoy:
Hi, nice to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your most recent book, The Geometry of Wealth.

Brian Portnoy:
Thank you. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And this follows by the way, your other book, Investor's Paradox. So, we're so happy to have you here, and you brought with you some great information, but before we talk more about your book and all that that offers our listeners, as you say, to live a life of funded contentment, and that has a lot to do with a big career decision that you made that was in part financially motivated, but there were other things going on as well. Tell us your story.

Brian Portnoy:
For the first roughly ten years of my career I was in academia. I earned a doctorate at the University of Chicago in political science, and I was having some success in terms of my writing, in terms of job offers from prestigious universities for tenure track positions, and on paper, everything was going really well. But I'll say that when I was honest with myself and with my fiancee at the time, I simply wasn't happy. It was a tough career.

Brian Portnoy:
Frankly from a monetary perspective, it was not lucrative. Being a graduate student, you're basically broke and then you go from being a graduate student to a professor when you're not broke per se, but you're really not making a lot of money. And the academic lifestyle involved moving around a lot, finding it hard to set roots in one place because you're looking for the right job at the right university.

Brian Portnoy:
The harder part was the expectations that others had of me that, hey, you're a smart guy and you've been working on and thinking about this for a long period of time, so to be able to go to those people, family, friends, my professors, my dissertation committee and say, "You know what, I want something different. I need something better for me," was not easy. I ended up just sort of putting a bunch of feelers out there.

Brian Portnoy:
One of them was to an old friend that I grew up with, who was working at a company called Morningstar, that some of your listeners might be familiar with. He was telling me about some of the investment research that they were doing, and even though my PhD was in political science, I was researching markets and economics as well and I found this job pretty intriguing, and I applied and I got it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you know the kind of salaries that ... first of all, the years of investment, both in lost income and in paying tuition and then making very little money, and did you know what the end game was in terms of earning potential when you made those decisions at 21?

Brian Portnoy:
I really didn't, and I guess it's a little embarrassing to say that I didn't. But I was following my passion at the time, and so I figured, "Hey, I'm friendly with and I see the lifestyle of some of these professors, and it looks great to me." So I didn't ask any hard questions about the monetary element of it. I was on a day-to-day basis, pretty broke, and that didn't help my mood. I just hadn't given much thought to the career element. Not just the money, but the lifestyle, which was sort of moving around a lot, and frankly, the people. I'm not going to be critical of those who go into academia, many of my good friends are now senior professors all over the world. But I really wasn't enjoying sort of the social network that I found myself in.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you mean by that?

Brian Portnoy:
I mean when I was hanging out with folks in the business world, and broadly speaking, I was having a good time, enjoying socializing. When I was hanging out with those in academia, I just didn't like the people very much. Despite the level of brilliance that you would find with folks, it was relatively narrow-minded. I just wasn't entirely comfortable.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what were the changes? You get the job at Morningstar. What were the changes in your overall life, but specifically financially, in terms of your potential and the path that you were now on? How did that change?

Brian Portnoy:
It changed significantly. Well, first of all, at that point I was married to somebody who had a very good six-figure salary. My starting salary at Morningstar I think was $41,000. This was in the year 2000. I was not pleased with that, but that's what the job offered and I wanted the job. But it was certainly about double or more, actually triple what I had been living on in graduate school. So, from that point of view, it was a step up in lifestyle. Plus I was married to somebody who had a very good job.

Brian Portnoy:
The more important thing is that I got into sort of a normal work routine in mainstream society. The lifestyle I had in academia, you set your own schedule, which sounds great. You work on whatever you want, which sounds great. But it was unstructured and frankly untethered from most everything going on in the world. It's remarkable how ignorant others can be. Something I've really taken to heart is that most other people don't care.

Brian Portnoy:
Your family cares, a few friends care, but for the most part, recognize that even if they say something negative or they put you down, they're not thinking about you before or after that conversation. They're just going on in their own life, and so you really don't owe them really any of your emotional energy.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners from that story?

Brian Portnoy:
If you're in a situation where it just doesn't feel right, even if you're getting good reviews, even if you're making decent money, you owe it to yourself to step back and say, "Do I owe myself more than this?" And then have the courage of your convictions to push forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk a little bit about your everyday money tip, because it ties into the philosophy of your book, The Geometry of Wealth in that you have something you're going to suggest to people that at the moment will not make them wealthier, but it will help them lead a richer life.

Brian Portnoy:
I think we all think in different ways about the relationship between money and happiness, and whether money buys happiness. And I'll say somewhat controversially that money in some cases can buy happiness. As part of that, deeper forms of contentment in our lives are in part driven by our deliberate decisions to express gratitude to others, and to be generous. There is now a lot of research in psychology and neuroscience that shows that people who express gratitude, and people who demonstrate generosity tend to be happier.

Brian Portnoy:
I call it being constructively selfish, because when you can tip a little bit more at the restaurant where the waiter or waitress was really helpful, if you can every time you stay at a hotel, don't leave $1 or $2, leave $5 for somebody who probably needs the money more than you do, and even in a non-monetary sense, you have an Uber ride where the driver was really fantastic, make it a point to write them a review. Or if there's somebody at work or in your personal life who's really done you a solid, send them a text or call them and say, "Hey, thanks for doing that," without the expectation of reciprocity.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. All right, let's talk a little bit quickly about your book The Geometry of Wealth. As I mentioned, it's your second book, and it's a lot about the emotional side of investing and how to grow and stay wealthy, and get past the jargon. I mean, you talk about the fact that a lot of people in the investing industry make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Brian Portnoy:
That's right. The industry is filled with jargon and sometimes that is used deliberately to confuse people so that they can buy products or services that might not be appropriate for them. I think the biggest mistake all of us, including me, off and on for decades now, the biggest mistake that we make when it comes to our money is that we equate money with investing, and we immediately dive into the weeds, into the markets and stocks and all that kind of stuff. Which can be interesting, but very distracting.

Brian Portnoy:
The Geometry of Wealth makes the point that what we need to do is start at the beginning. And starting at the beginning is to define what really makes us happy in life. And there's a number of different nuances to that, but we should be looking to underwrite a contented life. We shouldn't be looking to just get rich, meaning just have more money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people find out more about you and The Geometry of Wealth: How to Shape a Life of Money and Meaning?

Brian Portnoy:
My personal website is shapingwealth.com. There you can learn more about my background. There's a link to both The Geometry of Wealth and The Investor's Paradox. That's the best place to start, and also my Twitter handle is @brianportnoy, and I'm quite active on Twitter writing about day-to-day financial decision-making.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Brian.

Brian Portnoy:
You're welcome.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. I kind of have to take a deep breath after that, but I really admire Brian's fortitude in making a career change even after he had put so much into his academic career. Financial Grownup tip number one, when choosing a career path, find out the general cost to get there. Money and time. And the general payback. What can you expect? Sounds simple but most of us don't do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't do it, guys. I was a communications major at the University of Pennsylvania. That's not a cheap education. And while I did have what was called a concentration in the business school there, I never really mapped out and thought through what journalism paid. And you know what guys? Business news pays better than general news, in general. But journalism, not the most lucrative career.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, Brian talked about more than money in why he wanted to leave. Industries have cultures, and sometimes those cultures are part of what makes a career attractive or not. So take that into consideration. You spend a lot of time in your career and with colleagues, so it has to be a match.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for listening. We hope you are finding that investing the time is delivering value to you, and if it is, tell a friend, tell your relatives, tell your colleagues. Also, tell us. DM us on the social channels and learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Show notes can be found at bobbirebell.com/podcast/brianportnoy. In every show, it's always the same pattern, just switch out brianportnoy for the guest name, and you can find the show notes and links to everything that we talk about. And thanks to Brian for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Modern Loss author Rebecca Soffer not only had to come to terms with losing her parents at a young age, she also had to reconcile complicated feelings about using the money she inherited after their deaths, to fund her dream home for her own growing family. 

In Rebecca’s money story you will learn:

-How she lost her mother when she was 30, and her father just a few years later

-Her conflicted feelings about the money she inherited

-How Rebecca approached managing her inheritance

-The decision to use it towards a home for her growing family

In Rebecca’s money lesson you will learn:

-Accept that receiving money from parents, or any relative after death is complicated and emotional

-It can be scary to make huge financial decisions after a loss

In Rebecca’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to spend less money on snacks, especially with kids

Bobbi and Rebecca also talk about

-Rebecca’s book, co-written with Gabrielle Birkner, Modern Loss

-The collection from essays from different authors offering unique but universally relatable stories

-Mindy Kaling’s reaction to the book, and how she is supporting Modern Loss

-Stephen Colbert’s role in Rebecca’s life and how his experiences influenced his decision to support the book

-The role of digital memories  on social media like Facebook, in our lives

In My Take you will learn:

-Have a plan for your social media. 

-Go to settings and set up a legacy contact

-My tips on how to avoid spending money on snacks when you are on the go

Episode Links:

Learn more about Rebecca’s platform at Modernloss.com

Order the book Modern Loss!

Follow Rebecca and Modern Loss

Instagram @modernloss

Twitter @modernloss

Facebook: Modern Loss

How to set up a legacy contact on Facebook:

Go to General Settings, click Manage account, and add a friend’s name

---

Transcription

Rebecca Soffer:
I really connected this to, would my parents want me to buy this home? Would my parents want this for me? Would they think this is a waste? Is this how they'd want to take care of me? Would they want me to use it for something else? It really got into my head.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grown Up. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grown up friends. No amount of money can replace a loved one, but money does sometimes come after a loss, inheritance. Spending that money can be really complicated. Should it matter what they would want you to do? Is there a period of time that you should wait, and what if it allows you to do things you never could have done had they not passed away? In other words, it is complicated. Welcome, everyone. If you are new, glad you are joining us. You picked a really good episode. We try to keep them short, around 15 minutes, even though we hear many listeners bash them together. It's about flexibility and doing what works for you. When you subscribe, make sure to go into settings, hit auto download, automate your podcasts like you automate your bill paying, so you never miss one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to our guest, Modern Loss author, Rebecca Soffer. She lost both of her parents at a relatively young age while she was a young adult working at the Stephen Colbert Show. It led her down an unexpected path. Here is Rebecca Soffer. Hey, Rebecca Soffer. You're a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.

Rebecca Soffer:
Thank you so much, and thank you for calling me a grown up. That feels really nice.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are very much a grown up, and we're going to talk about why and how you became a grown up before you really wanted to, which is kind of all of our stories, I think. You're also the author of one of the most talked about books of the summer. It's Modern Loss, candid conversations about grief, [inaudible 00:02:10]. I should say you're a co-author along with Gabrielle Birkner. This is a book that's being talked about by some very influential people including Mindy Kaling. I'm looking right at the front cover. It says, "I am not sure how a book about grief could also be witty and entertaining, but Modern Loss accomplishes just that." Your old boss, because you are like me, a TV veteran or survivor, however we want to put it.

Rebecca Soffer:
Refugee.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sticking with the theme here, trying to have a sense of humor. Stephen Colbert says, "Talking about loss can feel scary. These surprisingly candid and funny stories aren't about death. They're about life." I love that.

Rebecca Soffer:
I love it too.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to talk more about the book after your money story, but how did this come about, because you're young? You're still young.

Rebecca Soffer:
Thank you, new best friend. I would think it's safe to say that I did not grow up daydreaming about eventually co-founding a site and publication and writing a book about loss and grief in the modern age. That didn't really enter into my consciousness as a career option. I had other plans, but as it goes the universe had other plans for me. When I was 30 years old I was working in daily TV, as you mentioned, the Colbert Report, and my mother was killed in a car accident.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so sorry.

Rebecca Soffer:
Thank you. It was terrible. It was the worst. I mean, I could talk about that for eons with you, but we don't have that much time. She was my best friend. She was my person. I had just seen her just an hour beforehand. Not only was it awful in a profound, profound loss, but I was 30. That's like the new 21, right? I really felt like a kid in many respects. It was also sudden, so I had no time to prepare for it. Then beyond that, three years later my dad died. He had a heart attack when he was traveling abroad.

Bobbi Rebell:
So sorry.

Rebecca Soffer:
Yeah, thanks. It was again, awful. It was terrible. It was isolating, and wrenching, and insanity-driving. By 34 I had no parents who were above ground. I did inherit some money because my parents did have some legal tender in their accounts, so by extension, some of that went to me. I had to figure out what to do with the portion that I could spend, when to spend it, what to spend it on, how much to spend it. The one really huge thing that I did, I went in with my husband on a down payment on a house in the Berkshires in rural Massachusetts. That sounds all nice and fancy, but the fact of the matter we lived in a one bedroom rent subsidized apartment in Manhattan, and then eventually kept living there with our one kid and our Labradoodle. It was nice and cramped.

Rebecca Soffer:
I never thought that we'd actually buy a place outside of the city in which we lived, but after my dad's death that all changed. I used part of this money that I was left, which I would have given all of my limbs to not have. I would have much rather had my parents with me to purchase this home with my husband, which was our foundation, which we were starting to create together.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you think if you had had that money through some other means with your parents still alive you would have been able to make such a grown up decision?

Rebecca Soffer:
Absolutely, because for a couple years beforehand my husband had been saying, "Let's look at properties because interest rates are really low. I think this might be a good time to invest in something," keeping in mind that we were being very frugal with our rental in New York City. We had low overhead with regards to rent and living expenses there. I just thought we were playing around. It was fun looking at houses. It sounded like a very grown up thing to do, to purchase a home, especially when you're in New York, and you feel like you're always a kid no matter what. Only adults buy houses. That's like most people in this country go through that, but it still felt very foreign to me.

Rebecca Soffer:
After my dad died, and I put that home on the market, everything changed. I all of a sudden became very aware in a way that I had become aware after my mom died, of the fleeting nature of life, that it can go at any minutes, and that this is your one life. I was living it now. This was no dress rehearsal. This was an opportunity to start something and to create a foundation where we could build memories with our kids, with our friends, which otherwise would not have not been build in, says, their maternal grandparents' home.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's interesting is that the inheritance that allowed you to buy a house, it was the money, of course, but it was also the idea that this is your life, and you do have to grow up. You do have to be financially grown up, and that was in a way part of what happened after they passed away.

Rebecca Soffer:
Yeah. I don't think it really had entered into my mind that I would have purchased something. Also, everything is really expensive in New York. That was not in the realm of possibility in my mind. Very quickly, the need to have a sense of home became very, very, very integral to my life.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners? How can they make this their own?

Rebecca Soffer:
When you lose your parents, and this money is from your parents, wow. It was so complicated. I really connected this to, would my parents want me to buy this home? Would my parents want this for me? Would they think this is a waste? Is this how they'd want to take care of me? Would they want me to use it for something else? It really got into my head. I also was really scared to take any huge financial action shortly after a profound loss. I didn't want it to result from strong emotions because people always say, "Don't make any big moves within the first year of a deep loss." We bought the house three or four months after my dad's death. A lot of people would say, "Wow, that seems rash," but my mom had already died. I was no stranger to this experience, so you could really argue that I was about three years into it already. I needed a foundation.

Rebecca Soffer:
I learned that even though you're making a purchase that is going to be the right thing for you, it doesn't mean that it's not a complicated, emotional experience. It is very, very hard to spend money that is inherited, very, very heard, and especially for younger people because it's not like when I was 30. You just called me a financial grown up, that's amazing. Can you please put that on my tombstone because that's not a term that's really been used in connection with me a lot. I didn't feel like a financial anything, and I really didn't feel like a grown up.

Bobbi Rebell:
You have an every day money tip that is something that many people do, but I think it's important to point out on a practical level because it's something we all think we should do. I personally, have never been great at executing it. I want you to share it with us, and I want you to tell us most importantly, how you actually execute.

Rebecca Soffer:
Yeah. Now I have a one-year-old and a four-year-old, both little boys, and they are hungry, like they are hungry. They are constantly hungry, and I constantly find myself, as soon as we leave the house, even though we have just eaten, my four-year-old will 10 seconds later say, "I'm hungry." I'm like, "How is it humanly possible for you to have more space in your stomach right now?," but he does. I constantly find myself, or had found myself, buying into purchasing the snacks from the museum we're at, or whichever entertainment based facility.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which are very expensive.

Rebecca Soffer:
Which are expensive. They're like a billion times more expensive than they should be, or the bottle of water. I spend some time a couple nights a week, it takes me 10 minutes, it's really not a big deal, putting together snacks, putting them in little Ziploc bags, separating them. I stockpile them. I have them ready every day. I take the new slew of snacks, and I bring them with me. I put them in my older son's little backpack. Wherever we are, whenever the inevitable, I'm hungry pops up, I'm like, "Great. Go into your backpack." What's really great about that is not only are there are a billion different things to choose from, but there's no arguments about, I want this. No, you can't have that. A, because it's like $20, and D because it's made of crap. He knows that anything in that bag is fair game.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk a little bit about Modern Loss. There's one part that really stood out to me that I hadn't really thought that much about, and that has to do with our digital legacy. It's a collection of essays from different authors, and then you and your co-author Gabby introduce them. Was there a conscious decision to include these digital stories, or did that just happen? What is your take on them?

Rebecca Soffer:
Yeah. It was a very conscious decision to have a dedicated chapter to the ways that grief and loss can throw a loss into our digital lives because it's very much a part of everything we do right now. It wasn't as much so 15 years ago, maybe even 10 years ago. My mom died in 2006, and she did not have a Facebook presence.

Bobbi Rebell:
Doesn't that make you sad? I wish my mom had a real Facebook page.

Rebecca Soffer:
Yes, it does make me sad. I always say, "If a person isn't a searchable, did they really exist?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Before I let you go, people are dying to know, how did you get Mindy Kaling involved with the book? Then also, Stephen Colbert, I know that you worked there. Can you tell us about their involvement and connection?

Rebecca Soffer:
With regards to Stephen, yes, he's my former boss. I think he's an amazing human being and very ... I think the general public, anyone who knows a lot about him knows that he suffered profound loss when he was very young. He lost very close relatives very quickly, and he gets it. He's one of those people who gets it. When I was starting to co-author this book, I reached out to him and told him all about it. He offered to write a blurb, immediately offered to support it and knew that there was a need for it. With Mindy Kaling, it was through a mutual friend, actually. She had lost her mom. I had read it in her own book and in a lot of news articles that she had lost her mom around the time, I think, that she got her TV deal for the Mindy Project. She really must understand what it's like to go through loss while you're revving up your career.I thought, who doesn't love Mindy Kaling? Everything she does it so great, and her tone is so approachable. I approached our mutual friend and asked if she would send along my request and a few chapters of the book. She agreed to support it.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's unique about this book is it's a book that you're read once, put down, and then keep coming back to. I think that's a very special thing. Where can people find out more about you, and the book, and everything else that is important to you right now?

Rebecca Soffer:
I run ModernLoss.com. It's an online publication that has hundreds, and hundreds, and hundreds of personal essays that are narrowly focused around different aspects of grief and loss. We're @ModernLoss on Twitter, on Instagram. We have a very active Facebook page. What I really love is we have a closed group, which has become this incredible source of support.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Rebecca. This has been wonderful.

Rebecca Soffer:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Rebecca mentions with her usual humor that she's really sad her mom was never on Facebook, but these days social media does live on and can be a gift. Financial Grown Up tip number one, keep your social media secure, but make sure if something does happen to you, loved ones can have access to whatever you want them to. Talk to relatives, especially older ones about making plans for what they want done with their digital assets. A lot of grandparents, by the way, are on Facebook. It can be as simple as finding the right settings on a certain platform. It may also be something to include in your estate planning and in your will.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up tip number two. Rebecca's money tip really hit home with me as a parent, but it can also apply to all of us in our every day lives. It's not just kids that get the munchies and get stuck buying pricey snacks. Pick a go-to food. In my case, it is often pistachios and those power bars. Keep it somewhere that is always with you for a quick pick-me-up. Totally obvious, but often not done. Maybe this is a reminder, if you already knew that. For me, it keeps me away from M&M's, sometimes. DM me your take on this and what your danger food is, if you don't have those go-to snacks with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks for sharing this time with us. The podcast is free, but in order to grow we need your support. Reviews are amazing. Also, follow us on the social channels @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. The shows notes for this episode are at BobbiRebell.com/podcast/rebeccasoffer along with more info on the podcast at bobbirebell.com. Thanks to Rebecca Soffer for helping us get one step closer to being financial grown ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Parenting expert KJ Dell’Antonia takes the money lessons her parents taught her as a child, and adapts them to her rural life raising 4 kids on a farm. The author of the new book “How to be a Happier Parent” discusses her kids income streams, financial responsibilities, and other behind the scenes details to help other families adapt to the realities of our digital culture. 

 

In KJ’s money story you will learn:

-The specific ways her parents taught her to be financially responsible at a young age

-How KJ applies some, but not all of those rules to her own life

-The strategy KJ uses in teaching her 4 kids about money

-How author Ron Lieber inspired how KJ teachers her kids about finances

-When to pay kids for tasks/chores around the house

-How the things kids want today is different from when KJ was growing up

-KJ and Bobbi disagree about spending money on “virtual” purchases like in-app offerings

-The businesses KJ’s kids have and other income streams happening in her household

-How KJ determines how much to pay her son and his friends to do work on their farm

In KJ’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of setting kids up with savings accounts that have interest

-The lesson KJ learned from her dad about checking accounts

-How KJ set up a virtual allowance for her kids

In KJ’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The strategy KJ uses to be a happier parent when traveling

-Her take on budgeting for travel

-How it is different from her parents point of view on traveling as a family

KJ and Bobbi also talk about:

-KJ’s new book “How to be a Happier Parent” 

-How to set the clocks that you can control

-Why she says ‘everyday is a race against the clocks we don’t set’

-Techniques to set up routines that work

-KJ’s four ways to make parents happier

 

In My Take you will learn: 

-My take on ways to help kids learn to be financially responsible

-How to find your own solutions to teaching kids about money- regardless of what your peer group is doing

-How me and my siblings learned about budgeting from our dad

-My take on traveling with a family and whether to splurge on that extra room or nicer hotel- even if it means cutting the trip shorter

EPISODE LINKS

Learn more about KJ and her latest book howtobeahappierparent.com

KJ’s website: KJDellantonia.com

Follow KJ!

Instagram @kjda

Twitter @kjdellantonia

Facebook: KJ Dell’Antonia

Check out the Ron Lieber episode we talks about! 

 

---

Transcription

KJ Dell'Antonia:
I wouldn't let them spend $500 on a virtual thing, but if you want to nickel and dime yourself up to $100 in a month, I'll let you know it's happening, but I'm going to let you do it if you have $100.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. That was new friend, KJ Dell-Antonia talking about her kids and letting them splurge on virtual purchases, something, by the way, we disagreed on. I got to meet her recently at Podcast Movement, and we bonded over all things money and parenting. When I heard she had a new book coming out, How to Be a Happier Parent, I was all over it. You knew she was coming on. This is a great interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome to our new listeners. For those of you just discovering us, we're so glad that you're here. As a regulars know, we keep the shows short, around 15 minutes, so you can fit it into your busy life, but we also know some of you have more time so we do three a week. Feel free to listen to a few at a time. Subscribing will make this easier. Don't forget. Go into the settings, set up auto download. Then you don't have to do anything more. Automate your podcast like you automate your savings.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to KJ. Her book is super practical and -- I love this part -- very specific. It's like a roadmap. Very well researched, but it also has a lot of information about her family life which is fascinating by the way. She talks a lot about it in her interview. Here is KJ Dell'Antonia.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, KJ Dell'Antonia. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the author of so many things but most recently How to Be a Happier Parent which no one needs. We all need this. We all need this so badly, and you're the perfect person because you are the former lead editor of the New York Times mother lode. You're still involved in that kind of writing as well. Congratulations on the new book which is coming out.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Thank you. Thank you. I'm really excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is a perfect podcast for you because you were basically born a financial grownup. Tell us your money story.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
I was definitely raised a financial grownup. I'm an only child, and my dad in particular was really determined that I would understand the value of a dollar and understand how the financial system worked. People say there are those who understand compound interest and then there are those who pay it. He was determined that I would be the one who understood it.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was his job? What was his background?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
He's in computers.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
He was not a financial advisor. It's just money is an important part of life, and it was important to him that it be something that I understood. If I had a lemonade stand, I had to pay for all the ingredients and justify how much we were spending versus how much we were making. As I got older if I needed a loan for something, I he would charge me interest. I would really ... I mean I had to pay him every month certain amounts. He set up a checking account for me really early. He got me a credit card really early that I got the bills for. I mean to have missed a payment and paid interest on that credit card, I mean I can think of nothing more shameful.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no. So now you are officially the financial grownup of the household. You have four children.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
I do.

Bobbi Rebell:
How is this now translating into how you are teaching them to be independent financial adults and then therefore you will be a happier parent?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
That is the hope. We do give them an allowance. It is not an exchange for work. That's a Ron Leiber tip that I have completely embraced. He's the author of The Opposite of Spoiled. I will pay them for jobs that I would pay someone else to do. Now, they are 17, 14, 12, and 12. The 17-year-old and the two 12-year-olds take care of the lawn because I paid someone else to take care of the lawn. In our house, you have to pay for your own electronics. If you want a phone, you have to save up. You have to be able to pay the monthly bills for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So before we were recording, you joked but I think you were also somewhat serious that you are not as good at teaching your children to become financial grownups as your dad was in your case. What's different?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
When I was growing up, I wanted Gloria Vanderbilt jeans or Doc Martens or whatever. My kids want Fortnite money. I feel like helping them to sort of keep track of digital money is really challenging.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. So what do you do? I've had this happen where your kid wants money to buy something that is virtual. It's an in-app purchase that's not actually a thing. It's like a new avatar or something that, for me at least, I really don't want them to ever spend a penny on ever. You're okay with them buying these virtual things in these games?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Once it's their money, I'll talk to them. At the end of a month, I might say "Do you realize how much you spent?" Especially when it comes ... I've got one now that wants a phone. Boy, you better bet I'm going "Yeah, look how much you spent on Pokemon Go. You could have had a quarter of a phone for that." Once it's their money, I pretty much let them spend it on whatever they want within some limits. I wouldn't let them spend $500 on a virtual thing, but if you want to nickel and dime yourself up to $100 in a month, I'll let you know it's happening but I'm going to let you do it if you have $100.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you tell me, for each of them quickly, what are their primary income streams? It is all just for tasks that you would pay other people for? Or are there other things that your kids are doing to earn this money?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
I have a 17-year-old. He has a small business selling maple soda and maple iced tea at our farmer's market. He's struggling to make a profit at it, but he's finally getting there. He's got allowance saved, and we also have a small farm so I will pay him for farm work. He's hauling hay bales and driving the tractor. When we're in really the throes of farm work, I hire his friends as well. He makes $15 an hour from me. My 14-year-old daughter is a huge babysitter so she gets paid to babysit. In fact, she doesn't do any lawn work. She doesn't want to do lawn work, and she's got her income stream. She babysits. The other ones do mostly lawn work for me and allowance and saving up birthday gifts still, but they're both only 12.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson from this? What advice do you have for parents in this situation teaching kids about money?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
If you can set them up with some kind of savings where they can see the interest coming in ... My dad actually had something where they would mail me a little tiny check for the interest. I'm not sure how he came up with that, but he kept these minuscule checks. It was neat and it was educational. If you have to have sort of virtual money as we do, I mean all this allowance that I'm talking about, it tends to be virtual. We use an app. Make sure you talk about what's going in and what's going out.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip. I've done this so I was really excited to hear this. Go for it.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
If you have kids and you're traveling with kids and this would make you happier, book two hotel rooms. There was a woman in my book who was talking about this and she had a partner, and she was like "No sex on vacation is not a good vacation." That's part of the reason, but part of the reason is just for your own sanity. You have a little ones. You put them to bed. You retire to your own room. You get an adjoining room. Spend a little less time in the location and a little more money on making that a more comfortable experience.

Bobbi Rebell:
One day less you probably won't miss. You'll still really have the experience.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that idea.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Yeah, I feel like one day less but a more pleasant days that you have there is going to be worth it. My folks would have said "But you're just sleeping there because we're going to get up and go." You got to decide what works for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. That's a lot of the themes in your book, How to Be a Happier Parent, which is coming out right as the kids are heading back to school. It's a perfect time for parents to really be proactively thinking about parenting and-

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
... the decisions that they make and the systems that we put in place when we get back into our routines in the fall. I love this quote. "It's hard to find happiness when every day is a race against a clock we don't set."

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Yeah. Part of what I'm trying to do in the book is help you to set the clocks you do control. We talk about mornings, homework, screen time, all the stuff that as we, like you said, get back into our normal routines, we're really looking and going "Okay. How are we going to handle that this year?"

Bobbi Rebell:
One other part of the book I love is there's four things that can make parents happier.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Parents who say that they're happier in their parenting, that they feel sort of better about it, they tend, when their kids are younger, to be one the more involved side. When they are parents of older kids, they tend to describe themselves as doing things that encourage independence in their kids. That's one thing, sort of that evolution from helping to letting go and letting your kids do what they're capable of. Happier parents have a real mindset of recognizing when things are pretty good even if some things are bad. Looking around at a moment when the kids are bickering and maybe there's a lot of homework and dinner's not on the table and recognizing to yourself that "Hey, it's a rough evening, but really overall this is what I wanted. We're all healthy. We're all happy. We're here together" and just soaking in that good feeling.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Happier parents also, they know what's really big. I call it's what's a tiger and what's not a tiger. Most of the things in life that stress us on behalf of our kids are not a tiger. There will always be another balloon. There will always be another lost Thomas train. There will always be another best friend and there's another college. Those things are ... When things go wrong for our kids, it's stressful, but typically, it's not a tiger. The last thing that happier parents tend to say is that they don't put their children's everyday needs above their own. When they're looking at something like what to serve for dinner or where to go on vacation, they don't pick based on what will make the kids happy. They pick based on what's going to make the family happier. Sometimes we should be looking at them and going "I'm sorry. I can't run you to Jessie's house because I've got a tennis game in 10 minutes. You'll have to find another way to get there."

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. I do have a pretty regular tennis game on Saturday mornings with my friend. You know what? I get home and my son gets to sleep a little late and it's okay.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's important for us to stick to activities. You talk about this in the book too. To stick to activities that made us happy before we had kids and just keep doing it. It sets a good example for them. Tell us more about the book, where they can see you, where they can learn more about you, and all that good stuff.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
The best way to find me is kjdellantonia.com. You'll also find me in the New York Times. There's a couple of excerpts from the book that are running or have run, one in the Boston Globe as well. Howtobeahappierparent.com will also work. All the urls, all the things. On Instagram, I'm @kjda, and everywhere else, I'm KJ Dell'Antonia.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. Well thank you for all that you do for all of us parents. We truly appreciate it. A lot of what you say actually goes for just about everyone in people that you deal with in your everyday life. Great perspective. Congratulations on the new book.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that KJ isn't afraid to do things differently from her parents even though she admits they did a good job teaching her to be financially responsible. Financial Grownup tip number one. As we raise kids, we may think that our strategy to teach kids to be financially responsible will be the same as other parents, but think again. Some people will insist they want to pay kids for everything. Some don't believe in paying kids for things they should be doing as a member of the family.

Bobbi Rebell:
There are parents who will -- this is true -- give teenagers credit cards or debit cards with zero restrictions saying "I don't want them to think we can't afford something" or they say they'll monitor their spending and, this way, they can see everything going on and have a discussion about it. I can see the logic. Or they just don't want to bother to talk to their kids about it because they're busy so life goes on and there's no plan and no cap on spending. They just kind of give the kids money haphazardly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Whatever you decide, make it deliberate and I do think it is a good idea to get ideas from other parents, but don't feel pressured to do what they do. Just because your kids bestie has an unlimited credit card doesn't mean you have to do that too. My siblings and I, for example, we had to present a budget to our parents at the beginning of, let's say, a semester of school and then if they approved it and funded it, we had to live within that and that was that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. I love KJ's tip about travel. The truth is, if you prefer to stay at a nicer hotel or have that extra room like KJ says, just make the trip a little shorter. You'll still have the experience and it will cut down on the tension and make the whole thing a lot more enjoyable.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for joining us. Tell us more about your financial grownup experiences. DM me. I am @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and on Facebook at Bobbi Rebell. To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast which will also get you to the show notes. Those are always at bobbirebell.com/ and then the guest name. In this case, KJ Dell'Antonia. Thanks to KJ for sharing such great tips and insights, helping us all get one step closer to be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Entrepreneur Lyss Stern, CEO of networking and event planning company DivaMoms and author of two best-selling books explains how she dealt with a major company that approached her to work with them, and offered to pay her in Craisins. Lyss also shares her secret to controlling costs, and still saying yes, when she is out with her kids and they want to have some for treats like ice cream. 

 

In Lyss’ money story you will learn:

-How a billion dollar food company tried to hire her for no pay

-Why they said they had no budget to hire Lyss

-What they offered her instead of money

-The strategy Lyss uses to make sure she is properly compensated for her work

In Lyss’ money lesson you will learn:

-Her negotiating strategy and tips on how it can be used by others

-The best ways to communicate the value of your business

-How mompreneurs can leverage their skillset

-How to handle low ball offers

In Lyss’ everyday money tip you will learn

-How to save money on treats like ice cream

-The questions you should ask while ordering to find out about sizes and other items not on the menu

Lyss and Bobbi also talk about:

-Her books: If You Give a Mom a Martini

and Motherhood is a B****

-How her life inspired her books and her business

-The realities of life as a mom and an entrepreneur

In My Take you will learn:

-How to decide whether it is worth it to take on a low-paying client, when you don’t have other clients in place

-How to find value in a client that truly does not have money to pay for your services

Episode Links:

Divamoms.com

Follow Lyss!!

instagram @diva_moms

twitter @divamoms

Facebook lys.  Lyss Stern

Get her books!

If you give a mom a martini

Motherhood is a B****

---

Transcription

Lyss Stern:
They wrote back to me, "But we can pay you in craisins," and that was it for me. That day, I'll never forget. I could not believe what I was reading in front of me. They had the nerve to tell me that they could pay me in craisins.

Bobbi R.:
You're listening to Financial Grownup With Me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grown-up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi R.:
Hey, financial grownup friends, so this episode is going to give us permission to push back a little or actually a lot when we don't get what we need to run a profitable business. Emphasis on profit. Mompreneur, Lyss Stern, is the CEO of the networking and event planning company, DivaMoms. There are a number of them out there, but she was really a pioneer and helped create and define an industry that is thriving. And since she has so much free time, not while raising her three kids, she also writes books.

Bobbi R.:
You may have heard of If You Give a Mom a Martini and her more recent hit Motherhood is a B: 10 Steps to Regaining Your Sanity, Sexiness, and Inner Diva, which she co-wrote with Cheryl Burke, and it has a forward by odd-mom-out star, Jill Kargman. Special welcome to our new listeners. We keep the shows short, about 15 minutes so that we can fit it into your busy day, but we also do three a week, so we hear a lot of listeners like to binge listen on, for example, longer commutes. Think of it like flex-time for podcast listening. Hit subscribe if you have not already, and be sure to set up automatic downloads, so you have one less thing to remember. Just like you should automate your savings. One less thing. Okay, now let's get to the fantastic, Lyss Stern, who runs a for-profit business, something potential clients seem to have a hard time fully understanding. Here is Lyss Stern.

Bobbi R.:
Hey, Lyss Stern, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Lyss Stern:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi R.:
And I am such a fan of your company Divalysscious Moms, major event planning company. I mean literally, you have millions of mothers and Mompreneurs in your universe that you have coming to your incredible events. So I'm over the moon that you were able to make time to chat with us. So thank you for being here.

Lyss Stern:
Of course. Thank you for having me on. I'm so excited to be talking with you.

Bobbi R.:
Before we get to your money story, just tell us a little bit about the company.

Lyss Stern:
Sure. So DivaMoms is a lifestyle company for moms everywhere. What we do is we bring the best of the best directly to the moms. We've really become a direct marketing company, so we work with whatever is new, fabulous for moms, for kids, but everything has to be approved by DivaMoms, by Lyss Stern herself, before we promote it to our moms and our community.

Lyss Stern:
And we throw these amazing events and we have DivaMoms book clubs and lots of fabulous parties where moms can come and just be, let their hair down, have fun, mix and mingle with other fabulous moms and really a great social network for moms everywhere. A really amazing community online and offline.

Bobbi R.:
And you're also an author. We're going to talk about your books, in a couple of minutes, but first I want to get to your money story, because you're talking about your business, and it's really important for people to hear a little bit of the behind-the-scenes of what goes on behind these events, and the kind of decisions that you have to make in running a successful business. Tell us your money story.

Lyss Stern:
Sure. So my money story is that I get hundreds and hundreds of emails a day, as I'm sure many Mompreneurs do, where companies want to work with me. They want to advertise with DivaMoms. They want to sponsor DivaMoms events. They want social media, They want email blasts, you name it. They want it.

Bobbi R.:
So there was one company that approached you and this was not a startup. What specifically did they approach you about doing with them as a business?

Lyss Stern:
Sure. So this one company, in particular, that is a billion dollar business.

Bobbi R.:
A food company?

Lyss Stern:
A food company, billion dollars.

Bobbi R.:
A company we've all heard of?

Lyss Stern:
Yes, oh yes. Reached out to me and said, "We love DivaMoms. We want to work with you, we want to advertise with you. We want to sponsor some of your events. We want to do direct marketing with you, want to do social media with you. We want email blast with you," all this other fabulous stuff. Okay, great. So I write back and "Thank you for reaching out. Let's talk, when you have some time, about what your budget may be," and all this other stuff.

Lyss Stern:
And they write back to me, "Oh no, no, no, no, no. We don't have a budget. We don't have a marketing or advertising budget." No, but I see their advertisements on every billboard, on every bus.

Bobbi R.:
Well they don't have a budget for you.

Lyss Stern:
But they don't have a budget for me. Correct.

Bobbi R.:
And they came to you?

Lyss Stern:
Yes. I did not approach them, and they can come directly to me. I wrote back something very polite and then they wrote back to me, "Oh no, no, no, no, no, but we can't pay you," because I guess they got, they understood where I was coming from, that this DivaMoms is a for-profit business. Yes, we are affiliated. We work with different charities that we're passionate about, but DivaMoms is not a charity, we're a for-profit business like everybody else like they are.

Lyss Stern:
And they wrote back to me, "But we can pay you in craisins," and that was it for me. That day, I'll never forget. I could not believe what I was reading in front of me. They had the nerve to tell me that they could pay me in craisins. And ladies and everybody out there know your worth, and you know that you are better at getting paid in craisins.

Bobbi R.:
Oh, my goodness. Tell me how you would, in another situation, how can you turn around that kind of approach to something that is paying you in money? Have you had any stories where you've been able to make the pivot and get someone to see the value and then actually pay you in a currency?

Lyss Stern:
Yes. So I've had this many a times and this was the one time, obviously, that was with the craisins, and it was just ridiculous. But a lot of times I will write back to companies that reach out to me, and I'll explain to them who we ... Sometimes I don't think they really understand what I am or what we do. They might think that I'm, I don't know what they might think, maybe it's just a hobby for Lyss Stern. Maybe this is a hobby DivaMoms, this is not a business, and I make it, it's all business.

Lyss Stern:
This is what it is. It's very black and white and I send them, obviously, information. I send them photos, I send them videos, I send them press links and let them know who I really am. And then a lot of the times they do come back, and they say, "Oh, I didn't realize," and, "I didn't know that you did this and this and this. Let me go back and see if we can find some money in the budget." And a lot of the times they do go back, and they do, miraculously somewhere, find money out of their budget to work with us.

Bobbi R.:
So what is the lesson for our listeners to get more situations like scenario number two rather than number one?

Lyss Stern:
Sure. My mom always taught me, and I'm sure we get everybody's heard this a million times, "You get more with sugar, so always be sweet." Always put your best self out there and hopefully they will come back and understand. That you, obviously, that you have a business that you have worth. And it's always nicer to respond with a nice email and/or pick up the phone and set up a time to call and explain yourself. Explain what the business is, who you are, what you actually really do. And if they don't understand, no worries, no problem. But, hopefully, after speaking to you, after really going through your email and going through your information and doing their due diligence. They'll come back and say, "Okay, we found money," or "We'd like to really work with you and this is what we're going to do and this is what we can do."

Lyss Stern:
And I also always, I think it's important too, to give companies options to say, "What is your budget? What are you looking to do? Because we could start at this, and we can go to this." But it depends on again, what every company's looking for. And I just think it's there from the beginning, from day one of the conversation to be open and hat in hand and to have that conversation. And that's just even an example of a few days ago, a company reached out to me, a clothing company. They want me to host an event for them and Dah, Dah, Dah. And she starting to getting into this whole conversation about where the event was going to be. And I said, "Before we even begin this conversation, I just have to tell you we charge and this is what we do and this is-

Lyss Stern:
And she's, "Oh well, oh, I didn't know, I didn't know that you ... and so I had to explain it and then I sent her a proposal and that's also important too. Write it out, a, b, c, bullet point, make it visual and show them what you do, and then hopefully they'll come back with a budget.

Bobbi R.:
And I like the way that you phrase that, because what you're doing is you're giving people the benefit of the doubt. That they may think, on the surface, not fully understand your business, that they're in fact helping you give you exposure, give you new contacts, that kind of thing when in fact, as you said, you do need to be compensated, because this is the business. And I think that's something that people can sometimes get lost in, and they are well intentioned. You can't necessarily come back with negativity.

Lyss Stern:
Absolutely. I think that if you come back with negativity, at least from the beginning, from right on, it's not going to get you anywhere, but sometimes they really might not understand what you are, who your business is and what you really do. So just again, send an email, really show them what you do or set up a phone call with them or even have a meeting, go for coffee, have a lunch meeting and be a person and talk about what you do. So I think that they get a better understanding and then hopefully they can wrap their head around it and see the value and see the worth. And I think that's really important.

Bobbi R.:
Do you try to let them say the number first in terms of budget?

Lyss Stern:
I do. A lot of times I'll say to the company, "What are you looking to do? What is your budget?" And a lot of times they'll come back to me, and they'll say, "Well, what can you do for this amount? What can you do for that amount?" And sometimes they'll say to me, "Well, I don't really know, so can you give me a breakdown of what things cost?" Which I'll do always. I think a lot of times a lot of companies today don't pay, because they don't have to, because a lot of times people or companies or influencers might do stuff for free, which is fine and great. Or they might do stuff for products, I mean whatever that's wonderful. But we, my company, happens to be a for-profit business, so I just need to make that clear from early on.

Bobbi R.:
All right, let's move on to your everyday money tip, because this one made me really happy. Tell us.

Lyss Stern:
Okay. I have three children, and we love to go for ice cream. However, there is a great way to save money for ice cream. For us as adults, they always do offer kiddie cups and kiddie cones. They might not show it out on the counters-

Bobbi R.:
And they don't always tell you, which is tricky with the kids. You have to be proactive, because your kids are going to see the bigger sizes.

Lyss Stern:
Yes. You have to be proactive. You have to ask, they most usually do not put the kiddie cone, or the Kiddie cup out there, especially during the summertime, their busiest time. And same thing for going for a ladies lunch. A lot of times you don't have to order the whole salad. You could ask for half a salad, and it also affects the cost, obviously. They're just little tips about food that you can, obviously, save a few dollars by asking and being proactive.

Bobbi R.:
Always order the small or even just order an appetizer. If you're super hungry, of course, eat what you want to eat, but if you're really just there to spend time with your friends, and the food is kind of an afterthought. Don't feel you have to order an appetizer, a drink, a full entrée, a dessert, a coffee, tea.

Lyss Stern:
No, it's definitely not necessary.

Bobbi R.:
All right. I want to talk about your books, because in addition to this big business that you re running you're also churning out some books. So your first book was If You Give a Mom a Martini, which I loved. I remember reading that. A 100 ways to find 10 blissful minutes for yourself. We all need that. And, by the way, it applies to dads too, okay.

Lyss Stern:
Yes, it does.

Bobbi R.:
And then your latest one is Motherhood is a B, 10 Steps to Regaining Your Sanity, Sexiness and Inner Diva, which is a great summer read. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Lyss Stern:
Sure. So this book was created, because I felt, after having three kids, that I was just on the verge of losing it, losing myself actually. I wasn't feeling well. I was just in a place, my father just passed away, and I remember going to a retreat by myself for a few days. I said to my husband, "I just need to go away for a few days." I went to a retreat, and I remember coming back from that retreat and saying, "I need to start taking care of myself. I need to start putting myself first, because if mom's not happy, kids aren't going to be happy." Motherhood is really hard. I don't think that anybody tells you, there are no parenting books out there that really tell you what motherhood is.

Lyss Stern:
Everyone, sometimes they paint pictures of that it's rainbows and roses and Unicorns every day and it's happiness, and it's ... but it's really hard being a parent, and I think that the book is all about really empowering you to step back and get yourself back. It's like almost like a Stella Got Her Groove Back, right.

Bobbi R.:
When feel like someone gets you.

Lyss Stern:
Yes. And that's really what the book is about, and it's a great beach read, and you could have conversations with your friends and don't forget to have a B-Tini on the beach as well, because we have the recipe in there. It's absolutely delicious, with watermelon juice, and it's just again, taking care of you and putting your foot down and learning to say no and really regaining your inner-B, because motherhood is a B.

Bobbi R.:
All right. Tell us more about where people can find you and learn more about you, DivaMoms, your books, all that good stuff.

Lyss Stern:
Sure. So everybody can find me. The best place to find me is on Instagram, which is diva D-I-V-A _ moms M-O-M-S. And you can also find me on Twitter, which is divamoms.com, and of course my website, which is divamoms.com and also on Facebook. I'm very active on Facebook.

Bobbi R.:
You're everywhere.

Lyss Stern:
We have a Divalysscious Moms pages, but we also have a Lyss Stern page where I post a lot of stuff too, and also everybody listening, I'm a little sarcastic online, and I'm a little bit funny I'm a little bit witty, and I'm very real and what you see is what you get.

Bobbi R.:
Which is awesome.

Lyss Stern:
Thank you.

Bobbi R.:
Okay, friends. So the most upsetting thing about Liz's story is that while the whole craisins thing with the currency was pretty unbelievable, the idea that potential clients will try to convince you that they have no money is not unusual, especially when it comes to Mompreneurs. Let's face it. So Financial Grownup tip number one, every time you take on a client that pays you a low market or less than you want or need, the time that you used to work for that client is time you are not using to find better paying-work or to do better-paying work. So for example, let's say Lyss decided to work on a client that paid her 20% below what she needed to make a profit, because well, it was better than nothing and maybe she didn't have something else at the time, when that offer came in, those days are locked in.

Bobbi R.:
Okay, so now another potential client comes along, and we'll meet her price, but now she's not available. Don't work with clients who either cannot afford to pay you at the rate that you need to hit your profit targets, and especially don't work with clients that have the resources to pay you appropriately, but choose to try to low ball you.

Bobbi R.:
Financial Grownup tip number two, but here is the caveat to what I just said. If there is a client that, in the short term, cannot afford to pay you in currency, as I joked with Lyss, but you believe they will add value for your brand in a constructive way, it is okay to try to work something out. Don't be stubborn. Not every case is black and white. Live in the gray areas, just not in the red, of course.

Bobbi R.:
Thanks for sharing this time with us. Tell us your Financial Grownup money tips, DM me on the social channels @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, @bobbirebell on twitter, and learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownupspodcast. Lyss Stern does not mess around. She is definitely a Financial Grownup, so thanks, Lyss, for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi R.:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Susie Orman Schall was financially content and lacked the motivation to rev up her writing career. Then a ’tough love’ conversation with a friend motivated her to get back to her A game. The mindset change resulted in phenomenal reviews and success for her latest novel, Subway Girls. 

In Susie’s money story you will learn:

-How Susie was not motivated by money in becoming a novelist

-The one thing a friend said that changed her perspective, and leveled up her ambition

-How Susie was able to get an agent for her third novel

-How Susie got a two-book deal for The Subway Girls

In Susie’s money lesson you will learn:

-How Susie defines success as a writer

-The change in self worth after quitting her corporate job to be a stay at home mom with three children

-Why earning money makes her feel valued

In Susie’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Resources to get books at a lower cost, including Bookbub

Bobbi and Susie also talk about

-Susie’s latest book “The Subway Girls”

-The economic message that is a theme of “The Subway Girls”

-How Susie researched the book

-The history of the Miss Subways contest

-How Susie got the idea as a foundation for her book

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of financial rewards in self worth

-Why having a second earner can be an important safety net even if one partner is the primary breadwinner

Episode Links

SusieSchnall.com

Get your copy of her latest book “The Subway Girls” 

Follow Susie!

On Twitter @susieschnall

On Instagram @Susieormanschnall

On Facebook Susie Orman Schnall

Check out Susie’s Balance Project interview Series!

Featured on the Balance project:

Reese Witherspoon, Sara Blakely and Sarah Michelle Gellar

BookBub

---

Transcription

Susie Orman Sch:
One of the things I said was, "You know, I don't really need to make a living from this book, so it shouldn't be something that stresses me out and overwhelms me because my husband, luckily, is earning the money that our family requires." She said, "Well, what if your husband weren't earning that money? What if you had to make money? How would you approach this entire process differently?" And that was a light bulb moment for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. So that was my college friend and now novelists, Susie Orman Schnall. Her new book, The Subway Girls, was named one of five inspiring career girl stories to enjoy on your commute by Buzzfeed. InStyle called Subway Girls one of 11 bucks to bury your nose in the summer, and PopSugar called it one of the summer's hottest new books. Not bad, Susie.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. In our interview, Susie gets very candid about the fact that she wasn't really trying that hard with her career as a novelist. She wasn't the breadwinner, so why stress? Well, you will hear why, especially if you dream of turning in your resignation to your boring office job the minute you have kids or other financial resources, and you don't have to go in and work for the money. You need to go in with your eyes open. Here is Susie Orman Schnall.

Bobbi Rebell:
Susie Orman Schnall, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Susie Orman Sch:
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations on your latest book, huge bestseller already. The Subway Girls getting rave reviews. Wait, I have to read some of these. You were named one of the most anticipated novels of summer by, this is a very long list. I'm just going to read some of them. Refinery 29, PureWow, Working Mother, PopSugar, Parade, and we could go on. I'm so proud of you. I have to tell everyone, we know each other a long time. We were actually college classmates and for one semester we were even roommates. So we've come a long way together and I'm really excited for you.

Susie Orman Sch:
Thank you. Likewise. It's wonderful that we can do this now as adults professionally, so it's a great honor to be on your show.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we also reconnected when we both decided to get into the book writing business a few years ago. You started when you had a lot on your plate already at home. You had three growing boys, a husband to take care of, a very busy life in the suburbs, and you decided to write books, and you were successful. You had a couple of very good books come out, but your motive wasn't necessarily to earn money. It was really about being fulfilled.

Bobbi Rebell:
And then one day, one of your friends said something to you that really changed your mindset and resulted in this book, which all your books are good, but this book really is a huge commercial success and has taken your career to a new level. Tell us about what that friend said and what happened.

Susie Orman Sch:
What happened with my first is I wasn't able to secure a literary agent, and so I ended up self publishing it. And then it got picked up by a small publisher, and that was really a wonderful experience for me. I really loved being with that publishing house. So for my second novel, which is called The Balance Project, I didn't even try to get an agent and go the traditional publishing route. I stayed with my publisher because I was comfortable there, they treated me really well. It was just a kind and gentle way to publish a book.

Susie Orman Sch:
And then I was talking to a friend who also happens to be a life coach, and she said something that changed my entire framework. One of the things I said was, "You know, I don't really need to make a living from this book, so it shouldn't be something that stresses me out and overwhelms me because my husband, luckily, is earning the money that our family requires." She said, "Well, what if your husband weren't earning that money? What if you had to make money? How would you approach this entire process differently?" And that was a light bulb moment for me. It kind of gave me more of a sense of urgency.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how did you then implement changes? What happened that was different?

Susie Orman Sch:
So I ended up writing the book, but instead of just opting to go with the publisher who I had been with who I still absolutely love, I went and queried the book and tried to get an agent, and I was successful. That was really one of the most wonderful professional experiences that I'd had because I knew that it was going to set me up to take me to a different level with this book. And then she put it in on submission, and I got an offer from St. Martin's Press for a two book deal.

Susie Orman Sch:
Right away, I felt like a completely different person. It gave me a validation as an author that I didn't have before. So I'm just so grateful that she made me think, well, what if? You know, stop staying in your comfort zone. Go outside of that and try something hard and something uncomfortable. Be comfortable being uncomfortable because that's how you get where you want to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it also brought you more financial rewards.

Susie Orman Sch:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners?

Susie Orman Sch:
I think of my success in the fact that I wrote these books and they were published, and they get great response from readers. To me, that is success. That makes me feel fulfilled and I feel like I've already won. The sales of the book are kind of the icing on the cake and that is because I don't have to earn a living as an author. But I don't really want to act like I don't have to earn a living as an author because, as we all know, everything can change.

Susie Orman Sch:
I was fortunate enough, and I'll use that word "fortunate" and then I'll qualify it in a minute, that when I started having children, I was able to quit my full time job. I was working for an internet company and earning a nice living that made me feel like I had value. I stopped working so that I could be a full time stay at home mom. Unfortunately, that didn't make me feel valuable, and what I realized is that earning a paycheck is something that's important to me.

Susie Orman Sch:
I don't judge other people's choices. Stay at home mom, full time working mom, whatever people want to do is great, but I do know that for myself, earning money makes me feel valued, and feeling valued is really important. It's very hard as a full time state home mother. You don't get a lot of recognition and validation for your work, and I do call it work. And so I started freelancing very soon after I had my first son, and that led into writing the novel. But the lesson for me is that if it makes me feel a certain way, then I absolutely need to do whatever it is to make that happen for myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your everyday money tip because this is something that I think a lot of our listeners who love to read books will really find a lot of value in.

Susie Orman Sch:
Yeah, so I love to read books, and I find myself buying more books than I can read. Luckily now, authors give me their books and I go to the library. I'm constantly inundated by books, but one wonderful resource is called BookBub and that's B-O-O-K-B-U-B as in book, U, book. And it's a website and if you go on there and you sign up with your email address and you put down what genre books you like, then every day, you get an email with daily deals of books that are ninety nine cents or $1.99 or even free, and it's a great way to load up your Kindle with books and not spend a lot of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. I want to talk about Subway Girls a little bit more and about the economic message of this book because people looked at this campaign and it almost looked like a beauty pageant, but in fact, it was actually a way at the time, as I see it, an opportunity for many of these women to have economic opportunity that they might not have otherwise had.

Susie Orman Sch:
Exactly. So my novel, The Subway Girls, is historical fiction and it's based on fascinating Miss Subways Contest, which was essentially a beauty contest that took place in the New York City subway system from 1941 to 1976. So my novel is dual storyline and the 1949 story features two young females who are competing for the Miss Subways title, and then in 2018, you have a female advertising executive who's pitching the MTA, comes across the Miss Subways campaign in her research. The two story lines intersect, and that's where the fun begins.

Susie Orman Sch:
But the initial, the motivation for both of the women is to find professional success. They both are incredibly ambitious, my main character in 1949, along with my main character in 2018, and they both have different motivations and reasons why professional success is so important to them. And for both of them, it ends up that the Miss Subways Contest, even though my 2018 character doesn't actually compete for Miss Subways, but it's this contest that allows them to fulfill their ambitions.

Bobbi Rebell:
It represents economic dreams because that is a way out, especially for the character in the 1940s. That is a way to basically not "just be a housewife," which is what she was fighting against. At the time, there were very limited opportunities for women. She would have basically just worked for her father. She did have someone that wanted to marry her and she put off getting married because she wanted to do other things.

Susie Orman Sch:
Yes, Charlotte is, she was unique for her time and she didn't want to have to go only with the constraints, what the expectations were for her by society, by her family, by herself, by her professors. They all wanted something for her and she just completely butted up against that box and wanted to get out of it. She found that, for various reasons, and you'll have to read the book to find out, that the Miss Subways Contest was her ticket out.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did a lot of research for this book. What happened in terms of their career paths for these women, the ones that you were able to interview?

Susie Orman Sch:
It was amazing. A lot of them, this became a stepping stone to a career either as an entertainer, or a model, or a singer. The very first Miss Subway was Mona Freeman. In 1941, she became a big Hollywood star. I actually coordinated a reunion a couple of days ago for Miss Subways in New York City. We had about 15 Miss Subways. The earliest one was Miss Subways of 1946, and the latest one was the very last Miss Subways in 1976.

Susie Orman Sch:
I just got to hear so many stories from them about how this launched their careers. These were every day New York city girls next door, and to have this opportunity to be seen as special, and to get recognition, and then have that launch into a career, was just something that changed most of their lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you first discover this and decide to write about it?

Susie Orman Sch:
I was actually driving in my car and listening to NPR and a story came on about the Miss Subways Contest and I was floored. I found it fascinating. I had worked in advertising, so that was relatable. And just this small slice of New York City history was beyond. And so I went home and I started doing research on the contest. Everything about it was fascinating to me, especially because it was rooted in this whole concept of female ambition, and women seeking their professional and personal dreams, and how this contest aided and abetted them with that. So the more research I did and I ended up interviewing former Miss Subways and hearing about their experiences, I realized that this would be a great foundation for a novel, and took it from there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you took it very well. I loved this book. I read it in, literally, one day. I couldn't put it down, and it's truly summer beach reading at its best and more. So congratulations on all your success. Where can people learn more about you, about The Subway Girls, and how to follow you?

Susie Orman Sch:
So the best place is my website, which is susieschnall.com, and that's S-U-S-I-E-S-C-H-N-A-L-L .com. And that has all of my social media links, and links for my books, and also my Balance Project interview series, which you're featured on. That is where I interview women about work life balance, but not from the perspective that we should all be trying to achieve this perfect level of work life balance, but more revealing it for what it is, as something that's hard to be perfect and absolutely no reason why we should try.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you've had some major stars on there by the way. Do some name dropping.

Susie Orman Sch:
Okay. Reese Witherspoon has done the interview. Sara Blakely, who founded Spanx. I have the founders of The Skim. I have women from all walks of life, all different professions, and it's a really ... There are 175 interviews posted up there now, and it's a really great way to see how different women are dealing with this challenge of work life balance. I know that there's a lot of pushback about, why do we ask women about work life balance, but semantics aside, a lot of women are interested how other women are dealing with it. So this interview series gives a way for women to see that everybody's struggling with it. Everybody's making sacrifices. We're not alone in that regard.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, thank you so much, Susie. This was great.

Susie Orman Sch:
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Susie was pretty candid, and I appreciate that she was honest about some things. We aren't always comfortable talking about in public and saying out loud, that she just wasn't all that into being a stay at home mom, that she didn't feel valued. She didn't feel validated until she started making money again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one, admit that for most of us, many of us at least, money, our paycheck, does make us feel appreciated. There's a great scene in Mad Men where the character of Peggy goes into her boss, Don Draper, and she complains that he never says thank you, and his answer of course is, "Well, that's what the money is for." If that happened today, I would hope that instead of Peggy wanting a thank you, Peggy would ask for a raise. In other words, it is okay for your work to be about the money. Bonus points for fulfillment, of course.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Susie talks about not being stressed out because she wasn't the breadwinner. Well, I'm glad she did get the wake up call from her friend. Twice, I have unexpectedly and temporarily, thankfully, been the primary breadwinner for my family. One time, my ex husband's job just ended after a merger, not his fault in any way. Nothing we could have seen ahead of time. Another time, my family was hit by the recession and while my husband landed very well and pretty quickly, we were both glad that I had some money coming in along with benefits like health insurance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Make the choice that is right for your family, but it's never a bad idea to have two incomes, even if one is much lower than the other. You'll be glad to have it if something happens and a lot of the time, at least once in your life, something's going to happen. Family, multiple income streams. If you are not already, please subscribe to the podcast and while you are there, manually change the settings to automatically download episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
We put out these episodes three times a week. They're about 15 minutes, so you can easily fit one, two, or more episodes into your listening time and make it work for you. Be in touch. DM me your thoughts on the podcast @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. To learn more about the show and get the show notes with links to everything that we talk about, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. And thank you to Susie Orman Schnall for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Influencer author Brittany Hennessy shares her strategies for getting large raises even when companies push back. Her book, Influencer: Building Your Personal Brand In the Age of Social Media, focuses on strategies for content creators to monetize influence. 

In Brittany’s story you will learn:

-Why she did not negotiate her first job offer

-The strategy she used to get a raise from $35,000 to $55,000 after just 6 months

-How she got yet another $20,000 jump in pay not long after

-Why the third time she tried to get a raise, she got a different result, and how she moved forward from there

In Brittany’s lesson you will learn: 

-How to understand your worth and be prepared to negotiate

-When to walk away

-How to look at job interviews as a two way street, and integrate that into your strategy

In Brittany’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The importance of staying in touch and being reachable if your work demands that. 

-The consequences of not being available when an opportunity comes up

-How to put the pressure to disconnect in perspective relative to your reality

Bobbi And Brittany also talk about

-Her new book Influencer

-The four parts of Brittany’s book: Building your audience, packaging your brand, monetizing your influence and planning your future.

-The Don’t be that Girl sections of the book

-The mega influencers that Brittany interviewed for the book

-How being an influence is a lot of work, sometimes a lot more than a traditional job, with none of the financial security

-Many of the most successful influencers went years without any financial compensation

-How brands can get more transparent value working with influencers, where they see the specific impact, compared to traditional celebrities on traditional media platforms

-Brittany’s #1 piece of advice for aspiring influencers

In My Take you will learn:

-Disconnecting from technology is a good thing- but if your business is tied to being reachable- make sure you are still reachable. 

-Use apps to limit and control the amount of time wasted on social media,so you can be more productive and focus on income generating activities

 

Episode Links:

Learn more about Brittany Hennessy on her website: https://brittanyhennessy.com/

Read Brittany’s Book #Influencer!

 

Follow Brittany!

Instagram @mrsbrittanyhennessy

 

Here are some roundup articles with apps to turn off social media:

https://www.reviewed.com/smartphones/features/10-apps-that-block-social-media-so-you-can-stay-focused-and-be-more-productive

 

https://www.teensafe.com/blog/best-app-limits-social-media-time-iphones/

 

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apps-to-reduce-screen-time-iphone-android/

 

Reward Style

Shop Style Collective

Learn how Brittany Hennessy negotiated a 57% raise on this Financial Grownup podcast episode. http://www.bobbirebell.com/podcast/britannyhennessy

---

Transcription

Brittany Hennes:
I had $50,000 for someone for eight hours of work and one Instagram post, and she just did not respond. And when she did, she was heartbroken, because $50,000 is a lot of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey grownup friends. So, I think we would all like to make $50,000 for a day's work. It almost makes that famous quote from supermodel, Linda Evangelista, the one where she says she doesn't get out of bed for less than $10,000 seem a little quaint.

Bobbi Rebell:
Apparently, according to our guest, Brittany Hennessy, at least one influencer didn't pick up the phone and missed out on $50,000. That is a very expensive missed call.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. Thanks for spending some time with us here at Financial Grownup. We keep it to about 15 minutes, but feel free to binge if you have a bit more time, and it would mean the world to us if you would hit that subscribe button. Go into settings and then set up automatic downloads. Automation is everything just like with investing, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's get to Brittany Hennessy. She is the senior director of influencer partnerships at Hearst, and she was a pioneer in the influencer field, first as a nightlife blogger, and then she worked as an influencer for brands including Bacardi, Pop Chips and The Gap, as well as having amazing assignments like ooh going enough to Germany for [inaudible 00:01:46] and hanging out with Rihanna and live tweeting about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Her book, Influencer, is really a first. Even if you aren't in the content creator influencer world, you should definitely check it out. We're going to talk a little bit about that too. Here as Brittany Hennessy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Brittany Hennessy. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Brittany Hennes:
Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations are in order. Your book, which has only been out a week, Influencer, Building Your Personal Brand in the Age of Social Media, already an Amazon bestseller, so congratulations.

Brittany Hennes:
Thank you very much.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I know you've been very busy. Tell us just a little bit about you, your background and what you've been up to. The last week or two you've been touring around with your book.

Brittany Hennes:
Yeah, I'm currently the senior director of influencer partnerships at Hearst, and here I book all of the branded content talent across all of our digital platforms and spent a lot of time working with influencers.

Brittany Hennes:
My background, for the last five years, has been in influencer marketing and just realizing that a lot of influencers were not getting the education and resources that they needed to be successful in this industry, and that's mostly because it's a new industry. There are not a lot of people who could give that sort of advice, and I love giving advice.

Bobbi Rebell:
You brought a great money story to share, and it has to do with getting paid more, which you're so good at it. So tell us.

Brittany Hennes:
So my money story ... My first job that I had after a long break of freelancing, and I had just taken the job at the amount, it was $35,000, and I was really happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us what the job was. What were you doing?

Brittany Hennes:
Oh it was to be ... So, I was the social media manager of a fitness chain.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Brittany Hennes:
And happy to have a steady paycheck, have health insurance. And so I took the number, even though it was much lower than what I wanted, and after the first six months I realized that I can't live on this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well wait, had you tried to negotiate it at the beginning or you just took it because you just wanted to be working?

Brittany Hennes:
You know what? I knew better to negotiate, and I was scared. And so, I think that happens to a lot of people. We're afraid that if we negotiate, a company will take back the offer. And so that is a lesson I learned the hard way and quickly course corrected when I asked for my first raise.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, you did not negotiate it all when they made you your very first offer for the job?

Brittany Hennes:
I did not, and that's something I think everyone should do, and I've done every time since.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So, let's go on. But then things get better?

Brittany Hennes:
Things get better. So, I put together a big proposal, and I asked for promotion, and I asked for a $20,000 raise, and they gave it to me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, wait, you asked ... Let's just slow that down. You asked for $20,000 on a $35,000 base. How did you present that case?

Brittany Hennes:
You know, I think it really was explaining what I had been doing at the company and the returns they had been seeing, because they hadn't really been a digital company at all, and I really put them on the map with social media, digital advertising, and I had the numbers to show. Like before I started working here, this is how many signups you were regenerating. This is how much revenue you are making. And in the six months I've been here, here are the new numbers. So, they more than make up for the increase I'm asking for, and unless you want to go back to not making as much money, you should give me what I'm asking for, and they took the bait.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's great. Then, you actually did it again though.

Brittany Hennes:
I did it again. Once I was grooving at that new level, I also stepped up the amount of work I was doing. I really stepped into like a brand director role, and we had an apparel line that we made. We had a radio station that we were playing in all the locations. So, really doing things that increased the brand value of the company, and that's something that translated into reviews online, into sales, into word of mouth. And again, when you can show that you're adding value, I think you should not be afraid to ask for a hefty bump. And I asked for another $20,000, and I got that as well.

Brittany Hennes:
And so I think, you know, if you're working hard and you're adding value, and you can put that on paper and quantify it real numbers, you should not be afraid to ask for more money because your job will give it to you, and if they don't, they don't appreciate you, and you probably should look for a new job anyway.

Bobbi Rebell:
What if they'd come back and said, "We agree you're worth this, but we don't have that in our budget."

Brittany Hennes:
So, that's actually what happened the third time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, you went back for more. How far apart? It was six months for the first time, and how much between each subsequent time?

Brittany Hennes:
Six months for the first time, and then I think a year and a half for the second time because I was there for almost three years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. And then you came back the third time.

Brittany Hennes:
And my last negotiation came at the end.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. And?

Brittany Hennes:
And they didn't have it. They said, "You know, you're great, and we don't have it." And I think you can either be able to walk away, which I was able to walk away, and I had also gotten another job offer that was for significantly more than they were paying me, so I was willing to walk away. Or, you know, if you can't, then you can look into trade offs. Like, if you can't give me X amount, can I have more vacation? Can I have a work from home day? Can I, you know, have shorter days? I think, if you really love your job, and the job is not just about the money. It's also about the work-life balance that you have.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners when you look at a big picture in sort of a broader sense of how it can apply to our listeners' lives?

Brittany Hennes:
I think the lesson there is really when you're going into a job situation, to understand your worth and be prepared to negotiate for what you want, and also be prepared to walk away.

Brittany Hennes:
I think lots of times we're very much, "I hope they like me." And we forget that interviewing for a job is a two-way street. Of course, you're going to be able to work at this great company and all the perks that come with it, but this company is benefiting greatly because they're going to get to have you as an employee.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I want to talk about your everyday money tip because it's fascinating and brilliant, because it goes against the grain.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're in a period where a lot of people are saying, "We look at our phones too often. We need to completely detach, turn it off, put it away for a full day or whatever it is and be in the moment." But that could be very expensive and could be a money mistake. So, what's your everyday money tip?

Brittany Hennes:
My everyday money tip is don't play hard to get and definitely be present.

Brittany Hennes:
I work with a lot of influencers who, I email them, I have contracts, I have offers. Sometimes it's four or five, six figures, and they don't respond because they just didn't get around to it, and they're always heartbroken when they try and connect with me later, and the opportunity has passed them.

Brittany Hennes:
So, I think, you know, it's definitely important to disconnect and recharge, but you still need some sort of out of office-on even if it's just letting people know that you only check email twice a day, and the next time you'll check is that this time because you never know what's sitting in your inbox or in your voicemail, and you have to make sure you're ready.

Bobbi Rebell:
Without naming names, what's the worst case that this ever happened?

Brittany Hennes:
I won't name names because the poor girl's probably still traumatized by it, but I had $50,000 for someone for eight hours of work and one Instagram post, and she just did not respond. And when she did, she was heartbroken because $50,000 is a lot of money for anybody.

Brittany Hennes:
Even Warren Buffet, if you want to give him $50,000, would probably take it. Why not? It's a nice amount of money, and she could have made that doing relatively little work, you know, compared to what a lot of people have to do for $50,000, and she just wasn't there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Heartbreaking. All right, let's talk about Influencer because, as I said, I love this book, and I don't know that there's any other book out here yet that lays it all out so clearly and in such a specific way.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love your expert tips. You have throughout the book this Don't Be That Girl, which is a lot of no-BS advice for people as to what you can't do. Tell us more about the book and what went into it.

Brittany Hennes:
The book is broken out into four parts, building your audience, packaging your brand, monetizing your influence and planning your future, and it's really just giving you tips and practical advice. Like I even give email templates on if someone asks you this, you should write back this, because I think part of what makes people successful is having a formula and having some sort of standard, and influencer marketing is still so young that there really hasn't been anything that's been created that's a textbook, and that's really what I tried to write.

Brittany Hennes:
And I think my favorite part ... I really liked the icons that I interviewed eight mega influencers who were at the top of their game, but I do really like, Don't Be That Girl just because I think it's really ... I think it's really funny, and people always like horror stories, and so I had to change some details so that people aren't easily identified, but the meat of the story and how ridiculous some of the [inaudible 00:10:49], they are a hundred percent true.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. You talk about the request that some of them put forward as if they were celebrities of a caliber that they just are not at this point, but because they live in this bubble, they believed that they are.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I think another good thing that I love about the book is that you make it very clear that they treat this like a job, and in most cases it's not even a solo job. It is a job with multiple people working on these brands. So, it may look very carefree, these beautiful photos, but in fact, they're very planned. The equipment is specific. The lighting, the filters. The other people working on it have very targeted jobs. This is work even though you say it's eight hours, for example, for $50,000 that that person missed out on. To be at the caliber where you ae being offered $50,000 for eight hours of work and an Instagram post, that person probably was working for many years very hard.

Brittany Hennes:
That's 100 percent true, and I think that's the part people miss when they, I think, are a little disgusted, might be the proper word, about how much some of these top-tier influencers are making, and a lot of these women weren't making that much money until recently, and some of them have been YouTubers, bloggers, Instagram stars for 10 years, and for the first five they made $0.

Brittany Hennes:
People just think they snap one photo and slap it on Instagram. Have you ever taken one photo of yourself? It's not perfect. You take at least five. And so, they're taking hundreds, then doing select, then editing, and that's even before they were mood boarding the clothing and the locations and getting permits, and they're ... You know, if you think of any major brand that does a photo shoot, they're doing the exact same thing just sometimes on a smaller scale.

Bobbi Rebell:
Brands can tell on a much more granular level exactly what return they're getting. So, if you were a traditional celebrity and you're in a shampoo ad on TV, they never know how many bottles of shampoo they sold. But it's much easier, somewhat, to track the impact of an influencer campaign.

Brittany Hennes:
Absolutely. Between ... Even if you just look at basic media, if you're looking at engagements, the cost per click, the cost per impression, we have those data points now because Instagram is providing them, and YouTube provides them, and then you have huge affiliate networks like Reward Style and you know, Shop Style Collective where influencers can actually see how much product they're moving because they make commission off of it.

Brittany Hennes:
And so I think Reward Style has crazy numbers that like in a very short period, they did a billion dollars worth of sales, and companies like Nordstrom, 80 percent of their mobile traffic comes from influencers.

Brittany Hennes:
And so, brands can really see the difference that influencers are making, and it's not just enough to make great content, you also have to be able to move product.

Brittany Hennes:
And the girls who are commanding six figures for a campaign, they can do both really well.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, final question on this. Number one piece of advice for people that want to be an influencer that earns money.

Brittany Hennes:
Number one piece of advice is make sure you are in it for the right reasons. Everything is great, but everything, once it is your job, is now a job, and you may not want to get up some days, but you still have to go and shoot content. Definitely pick something that is your passion. And if you could do it and no one would pay you, you would do it anyway, because it will be a while. It can be a short while or a long while until you see real revenue from it. So, you definitely want to make sure you don't burn out before your time comes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great Advice. Tell us where we can follow you because you are an influencer in your own right.

Brittany Hennes:
I'm on Instagram. That's my primary channel at MrsBrittanyHennessy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much, Brittany.

Brittany Hennes:
Thank you so much. This was so much fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so Brittany did not hold back. Here's my take on it though. Financial grownup tip number one. There is a big trend now that we should take breaks from our technology, and that is a really good thing, but if you have a job where you need to be reachable, be reachable.

Bobbi Rebell:
One option is to use, for example, the do not disturb feature settings on your phone. So, within there, you can set it up so that the calls from one group, let's say VIPs are allowed. You can also usually set it up so that repeated calls get through. That way if someone's calling you over and over again to hand you money, like $50,000, you may notice repeated calls and eventually they will get through to you. You can also, obviously, have some kind of message on your voicemail telling people to call someone like an assistant that can reach you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. While we are talking about phone settings, one way to not make money is to always be on social media, unless of course that is literally your work. Then be on social media.

Bobbi Rebell:
There are all kinds of apps and settings that can put controls in, so you won't be distracted by all the apps on your phone, but you can leave the right things on and use the setting.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm going to list some roundup articles with a bunch of these, but a couple to check out are Moments, Off Time, and Freedom.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for sharing your time with us DM me and tell me what your financial grownup tips are. I am at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, BobbiRebell on Twitter, and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook, and you can get the show notes, for example, with the links of those articles for this episode BobbiRebell.com/podcast/BrittanyHennessy, and all of the show notes follow that same pattern where it's BobbiRebell.com/podcast, and then forward slash and the guest's name. And we have lots of great information there, including links to their books, where you can find them on social media and all that good stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you for Influencer author, Brittany Hennessy, for helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Philip Taylor, aka PT Money was too cool to do any research, or any real negotiation when buying his first car. But the crushing payments, and having to call his dad for help, quickly brought him back to reality. 

In PT’s money story you will learn:

-Why PT felt guilty and went into a panic after buying his first car

-How he determined what car to buy and the budget

-The exact steps he used to buy his first car

-What his costs were relative to his financial resources

-His negotiation strategy

-What happened when he got home and made a huge decision

-How he tried to correct the mistake himself

-Why he reached out to his father for help, and how the situation was resolved

In PT’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to know what to pay for a car and how to negotiate it in advance

-The specific steps PT now uses to buy cars

-The best ways to finance a car purchase

-How you can avoid the pitfalls PT experienced

-The exact resources PT uses when buying a car

-Other skills PT now has to be a financial grownup

In PT’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How PT and his wife have streamlined their grocery shopping

-How to balance saving money with saving time

-How to avoid buying things you don’t need when food shopping

-Strategies to get grocery shopping done with kids in tow

-When to pay fees for grocery related services

In My Take you will learn:

-Don’t let your pride get in the way of correcting a mistake

-When free is not the best value

-What to look for in a business where you are paying a fee for service to determine if it is worth paying the extra money

Episode Links:

PT’s website https://ptmoney.com/

Come to Fincon! Learn more here. 

Follow PT and Fincon!

Twitter: @PTMoney @Fincon

Instagram @PTMoney   @finconexpo  

Facebook PTMoneyblog   Finconexpo

 

Car resources PT mentioned

Edmunds

TrueCar

KellyBluebook

Craigslist

Grocery resources PT mentioned

WalMart

Kroger

Target

This episode was taped at Podcast Movement

---

Transcription

Philip Taylor:
I all of a sudden felt a rush of severe guilt and severe panic that I think I've actually put myself in a big hole here. I felt embarrassed that I couldn't have gone into the dealership and made us smarter choice. And I tried to call the dealership up and say, "Hey, would you guys take this car back?" And I think they got laughed at me over the phone.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what, being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello my Financial Grownup friends. Making your first really big purchase, is a really exciting. But it's also a reality check. That is what you are hearing in the voice of Philip Taylor, known to many of his fans, as PT money. He later went on to start a huge money content conference called FinCon, which we'll talk about later. Welcome to the podcast to everyone. We keep it to about 15 minutes because you're busy. We're focused and intentional in bringing you a mini story and a lesson from that mini story, and then we'll always give you what I call an everyday money tip and specific ways that you can put it all to work in your life. All right, so let's get to PT's story. It is about buying his first car. But as you will hear, it is also about learning that even if you are legally an adult, you sometimes have to be humble and make that call to your dad. I was able to connect with PT at Podcast Movement in July. So you're going to hear a little bit of that in the background. Here is PT.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Philip Taylor, aka PT aka PT Money. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Philip Taylor:
Thanks for having me on Bobbi. It's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is an honor for me because we are approaching year three for me of your venture FinCon, which is a big conference for money people. Tell us quickly about it, and then we're going to get your money story.

Philip Taylor:
Yeah. It's a digital marketing conference for people who talk to people about money. So if they're out there, whether they're the Dave Ramsey type or the Suze Orman type, they're reaching people with a financial message. We'd like to have them at the event and show them how to do it better.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're going to show us how to do buying a car better. Tell us your money story.

Philip Taylor:
Yeah, my money story is this. When I was, let's see, 22, 23 left college. Thought it was a big time college graduate with my new career.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was your new career?

Philip Taylor:
In accounting. So I was going to go work for one of the big financial firms, big accounting firms. My salary was 33,000. And through college, my parents had most have helped me out with a lot of the financial expenses. I had took out some student loans to help me out with some of the college. So, for the most part, I hadn't really managed my own money yet.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you were in accounting just to be clear.

Philip Taylor:
But I was in accounting. Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Philip Taylor:
And I knew some of the high finance stuff at that point. But I didn't know really how to handle my own money. And I was kind of naturally a spender. So, left for the new job that I had this big paycheck coming in, and the world was mine, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
And what were your other ... were you paying rent? What else was going on financially with you in terms of your overhead? Were you living with mom and dad?

Philip Taylor:
No, I moved into an apartment with some buddies. I was at least splitting I guess rent with some friends. But it was the nicest apartment in town because here we were big time college grads now, we could afford it all, right? And the next thing I wanted to do is run out and buy a brand new car, like a brand new SUV. I think it was the Mitsubishi Montero Sport had just come out. And it was this brand new SUV and it was 1999. So that dates me a bit. But it was like this beautiful vehicle that I thought now I had earned the right to go by.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Philip Taylor:
And so I kind of just blindly went down to the dealership.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now did you bring your buddies? Did you bring a family member? Anyone?

Philip Taylor:
No. The ego was there and I was like, I'm an accountant. My dad's a CPA. I can go figure this thing out.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you did the research that you knew what car you wanted, but anything on pricing financing anything? [crosstalk 00:04:05] my young accountant.

Philip Taylor:
No. I did None of that. I literally went down to the dealership thinking, I'll just work it out when I get there. I think my buddies and I were going to go on a trip the next weekend. And so it was in my mind that I would have this SUV by the time we went on this trip. I left my old car there for whatever they were going to give me for.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you negotiate that?

Philip Taylor:
I didn't even negotiate, no.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you negotiated nothing?

Philip Taylor:
No. I took what they were giving me on that. I took the interest rate that they were going to give me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which was?

Philip Taylor:
Somewhere between 9% and 12%. So it was ridiculous. Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Philip Taylor:
I was being taken to the cleaners totally.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what was the price of the car?

Philip Taylor:
I don't remember that. I think it was somewhere around 32,000. Something like that.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, your yearly salary, which you do remember-

Philip Taylor:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was 33,000. You went out and bought a $32,000 car, brand new. You don't really remember the actual price of the car. You don't remember the actual interest rate. You didn't negotiate anything. But you had a fancy car and you were in the nicest apartment in town.

Philip Taylor:
That's it. That's it.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's good. All right. And you're going on a trip?

Philip Taylor:
That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Continue.

Philip Taylor:
Yes. So I get home and I we're getting ready for a trip. And then I start realizing what insurance is going to be for me. And because I was a young guy, I guess and not married yet or not a homeowner yet, insurance on this new Montero Sport was going to be just absolutely through the roof. And so when I started putting it all together, the car payment, the insurance-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, what's the car payment?

Philip Taylor:
It was somewhere around $400 I think. $400, $500.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was your monthly take home pay?

Philip Taylor:
33,000 divided by 12, whatever that is. I don't know. It was not much.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you paid taxes too. So it wasn't [inaudible 00:05:36].

Philip Taylor:
Exactly. Yeah. So all in all-

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Philip Taylor:
I was going to be probably spending close to at least a third of my take home pay on this whole car experience, if not more. So, overburdening myself for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you feel?

Philip Taylor:
I all of a sudden felt a rush of severe guilt and severe panic that, "Okay, I think I've actually put myself in a big hole here." I felt embarrassed that I couldn't have gone into the dealership and made a smarter choice and negotiated it a little better. And so, yeah, I felt, I guess a sense of the immediacy of owning this thing was now fading. And I was feeling bad.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you do?

Philip Taylor:
At that point, I tried to call the dealership up and say, "Hey, would you guys take this car back?" And I think the guy laughed at me over the phone. And I didn't even then attempt to go down there. I was like, "Well, what can I do now? Can't really afford this thing. So should I try to sell it on the secondary market? And that would be foolish." I knew enough to know that. And so I just felt, I was at the end of my rope. So I called my dad.

Philip Taylor:
And here I am this 22 year old, big ego, new college grad, at the end of the day calling dad for a bailout. And I said, "Dad, what do I do in this situation?" And luckily, dad is able to call up the dealership and somehow spin his magic and convince them to take the car back from me. I do remember one thing about this is that it was $1,000 down payment that I put down because that's pretty much what I lost in this whole process. So they took the car back and I didn't owe any payments anymore, but I did lose my $1,000. And they gave me my old Saturn back that was paid for. And I drove my Saturn for the next five years, proudly. I swore going forward that I would own my financial life going forward. And I wouldn't ever rely on someone else to kind of help me out.

Philip Taylor:
But then I also studied up on actually how to buy a car. And I actually learned how to do it right. And so the next one I bought, I used some smarter tactics there.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, give us a lesson for our listeners, what is the takeaway from that?

Philip Taylor:
Yeah, number one, you need to absolutely have the price of the car pretty much nailed down before you even walk into the dealership.

Bobbi Rebell:
The retail price of the price that you are willing to pay?

Philip Taylor:
The price that you are willing to pay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Philip Taylor:
And what other people are buying that car for. So we have all kinds of tools out there these days that will let you research that. Whether it's in edmunds.com or truecar.com. Those services will allow you to kind of research what people are actually buying cars for on the public market. And so you really need to kind of nail that down before you go to a dealership.

Philip Taylor:
The second thing I like to do is to actually take a step further and start communicating with dealerships about a potential offer and saying, "This is what I'm looking for. What's kind of your best offer to get me down there?" And so I have these conversations over email with these dealerships to let them put their best foot forward. Dealerships are used to this now. They are very used to consumers who want to just communicate beforehand. And so nail down that price as much as possible before you walk into the dealership. With financing, go to other sources. Go to your bank go to other vendors who could provide a good rate for you and have that loan secured before you walk into that dealership.

Philip Taylor:
Secondly, know what your car's worth. Look it up on Blue Book. Understand what your trade in value is going to be. At the end of the day, we're going to take this to Craigslist with and sell it on the open market. So know those numbers. And then once you're going in, and once you go to the actual dealership, bring someone with you. So I made that mistake the first time. And this is a chance for you to rely on someone else. Negotiate each of those factors separately. So start with the price get that nailed down. They're going to want to talk to you about payments. They're going to want to talk to you about interest rates.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, let's talk about why they want. They want to talk about payments, because most people just think, can I afford the payment rather ... And that's a way for them to charge a higher price because you can manipulate the payments.

Philip Taylor:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip. Because this is one that is near and dear to my heart as a busy mom and someone that doesn't want to get suckered into buying stuff that I don't want. Do tell.

Philip Taylor:
Yeah, so my wife's the frugal one. Mrs. PT is super frugal. I'm the spender. So, she's got all the cool money saving ideas. And so one of the things she does is buy her groceries every week or every other week. And in the past it's always been good advice to make a grocery list before you go the grocery store, right? Because that way you won't pick up anything extra, you'll get exactly what you need. You'll be able to maybe even price some things out beforehand. That's good advice.

Philip Taylor:
But I find that through the years, it's like we made the event in January for a couple weeks, and then it kind of falls off, right? You're less diligent about that. So you end up just buying sort of random things at the grocery store every time you go. So one of the things we started doing is taking advantage of grocery pickup, right? So many folks are familiar with this. But this allows us to beforehand, before we go the grocery store, use the online portals of Walmart, of Target, of Kroger, whoever, and pre select our items we want to buy. Walmart is free for this service. Some other grocery stores will charge you these days. It's a small fee, though. And to me, it's worth it because you're selecting beforehand, before you're hungry before you're walking the aisle, seeing the tempting things. You're seeing exactly what you need.

Philip Taylor:
And then you pop in your car. At the scheduled time you show up, and you don't even have to go in the store keep your kids in the car, which is really cool for my wife, we have three kids. And then you pay your fee if you're going to the one of the places that pay a fee, or you go to Walmart, you pick it up free, and then you head home knowing that you didn't buy anything extra that you didn't need. And you saved some time because you're not wandering the stores picking random things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me more about FinCon because this is your how much?

Philip Taylor:
This is our eighth one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Eighth one. Wow.

Philip Taylor:
Yeah. And so it's an annual event and community. And our event will be this September 26 to 29 in Orlando, Florida. Be 2,000 money nerds like us sitting around talking about money but also how we talk about money. So talking shop. Whether it's how to create better content, promote it better or make money on our efforts.

Bobbi Rebell:
How has the business evolved, because you've really grown. You've got a big ... we're here by the way, recording a Podcast Movement. You've got a lot of people here on your team which is really impressive.

Philip Taylor:
About the third year I decided I wanted to take it a little more seriously. And so I started looking for ways to add value to the attendees. Things I'd held off on before because I wanted to keep the pricing low on the tickets. So, I just said, "Well, I can still have a low ticket but then now I can have a premium ticket. And I even have a premium above that." So I look for ways to add value for attendees that we could kind of build some margin in and charge a higher price for.

Philip Taylor:
Secondly, was to create more of a true marketplace at the event where people were coming together to do business and to do deals. And so for the ROI of the experience being face to face. You for instance, meeting with brands at the event can turn into a podcast sponsorship. And so, that's kind of what we want to create. A marketplace for that to happen at the event. And so the more we leaned into our expo hall experience, which we call FinCon Central now, to make that a bigger part of the event. The more value that sponsors and exhibitors saw and being a part of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people find you and learn more about FinCon and about you. Because you also have your own stuff going on.

Philip Taylor:
Sure. We're on the socials @FinCon or @FinConExpo. And then our website is finconexpo.com. And then me personally, I have my own blog and some podcasts I've done in the past. All at ptmoney.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you PT.

Philip Taylor:
Thanks Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
There is a lot in what PT had to share with us. So much that we can all relate to. Financial grownup tip number one. If you get into a bad situation, do not let your pride get in the way of fixing it. PT could have just accepted defeat and been under a mess of payments for years. But he did the hard thing and called his dad, and his dad was there for him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. You may have noticed that in PT's money tip, some of the grocery services were free and some had a payment. There are times when free is not the best value. Not saying it isn't in that case. But a well run business is profitable. So they must make money somewhere. Give your business to the stores that work the best for your life. The store that executes better. That has delivery done on time for example and correctly. May cost more, but be worth it. That cost may be in a fee or it may be in slightly higher prices. But look at the total picture.

Bobbi Rebell:
A quick word about PT's business, FinCon, it is happening in Orlando on September 26th to the 29th. If you are interested in coming, please come hear me speak on Wednesday at 1:30. I will be doing a joint presentation with my editor and producer, Steve Stewart. We'll be sharing the behind the scenes look into what went on when we launched the Financial Grownup podcast and where we have come from those first episodes back in February of 2018. And we'll also have a lot of information about how you can get started podcasting if that is something that interests you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Make sure to let me know if you are coming so that we can connect in person. I'm going to leave a link to sign up for FinCon and learn more about it in the show notes. Those show notes are at bobbirebell.com calm/podcast/ptmoney. Or you can just DM me on any of the social media channel and I will make sure that you get the right information. On Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter @BobbiRebell and thank you to PT for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grown ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

John Schneider and David Auten went 40 percent over budget at their recent wedding- including a couple thousand dollars on a very fancy portable restroom known as the Lavish Loo. Looking back, they would have said I don’t to many of their expenses.

In John and David’s money story you will learn:

-How their wedding went 40% over budget

-Why they spent $2,000 on a fancy portable bathroom called the Lavish Loo

-Why they regret not waiting a little bit longer to get married

-The choices they would make differently in hindsight

In John and David’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of focusing on your own priorities for your wedding or special event not what is expected by friends and family

-How they leveraged their wedding spending to pay for their a good portion of their  honeymoon

In John and David’s every day money tip you will learn:

-How to use the strategy they call money chunking to make your budget feel larger

In my take you will learn:

-How to get things for free from vendors and party planners

-How better communication about expectations for sharing expenses can avoid misunderstandings. 

Episode Links

The Debt Free Guys website

Queer Money podcast

Follow the Debt Free Guys!

Instagram @debtfreeguys

Facebook DebtFree Guys

Twitter @DebtFreeGuys

The Lavish Loo

The Posh Potty

Come see the Debt Free Guys at The National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce Business and leadership conference in Philadelphia

Come see the Debt Free Guys at FinCon in Orlando!

---

Transcription

David Auten:
We had to pay a little bit extra to have some nice, they were called the Posh Potty, no the Lavish Loo. So we had some pretty fancy toilets at our wedding.

John Schneider:
The Lavish Loo was just under $2,000 for the one night.

David Auten:
We had it for three nights.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownups, so everyone wants their weddings, their birthdays, special occasions to be remembered especially when they throw a big party. In the case of John Schneider and David Auten, also known as the Debt Free Guys, the big buzz at their wedding in addition to the overall joy of them tying the knot, was actually about the fancy porta potty. Which by the way was technically called The Lavish Loo.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, just a minute here. A special welcome to our new listeners and welcome back to our regulars. We keep the episodes to about 15 minutes to fit your schedule. So if you have more time, we hear binging a few for a long drive or a commute works well. Think of it like flextime for podcast listeners.

Bobbi Rebell:
It would mean the world to us if you would subscribe and then go into settings and make sure that you are set up for auto downloads. That way, you won't miss any upcoming episodes. Automate your podcast like you automate your retirement savings. There you go. All right, let's get to John and David.

Bobbi Rebell:
So they just got married and they did go over budget on their wedding, but it wasn't just splurging on things like fancy porta potties, which they'll explain by the way. They kind of got into a pickle where they really had no choice about that. It was also kind of about being too busy to make the effort to watch those expenses and not asking the right questions in time to control the costs. Here are the Debt Free Guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Debt Free Guys. You guys are financial grownups. Welcome to the podcast.

John Schneider:
Thank you for having us. We're excited to be here.

David Auten:
Yes, thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me do one more formal introduction. First of all we have John Schneider. So say hello so people know your voice.

John Schneider:
Hello this is John Schneider.

Bobbi Rebell:
And David Auten.

David Auten:
Hi, this is David.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right and I am a huge fan of your website because so much of the advice applies to everyone even though you are out there talking about your sexual orientation. This is universal themes that you talk about, including the fact that you guys successfully paid and this is a big deal, $51,000 in credit card debt in just over two years. So first of all, congratulations on that.

John Schneider:
Thank you. That was very liberating. It was coming out of a closet with our finances.

David Auten:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you also have been able to really leverage your successes into business opportunities and into productive ones that really help others to find a path that is right for them financially. So tell me about some of these partnerships that you've been able to put together that are spreading the word.

John Schneider:
Yeah exactly. We actually are excited to share that we just resigned with a Queer Money sponsor, which will be MassMutual. It'll be their second time sponsoring our podcast which is, not only does it help us put food on the table, but it helps us be able to promote and market our podcast and get it out to more people so we can help more people with the content that we create, both with ourselves and with our guests.

Bobbi Rebell:
I have to congratulate both of you. You both recently said, "I do." At your wedding.

John Schneider:
We did.

David Auten:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
I saw amazingly beautiful photos. Everyone should go to your social media, which is all @debtfreeguys. We'll have more info at the end of the podcast on that. You said, "I do." But you also now wish you said, "I don't." To a bunch of stuff. Tell us your money story.

John Schneider:
Yeah. Hindsight's 20/20, right? And even though our entire life revolves around helping ourselves and other people with their money, we definitely have some big takeaways even just a month after our wedding.

David Auten:
Yeah.

John Schneider:
I think the biggest mistake that we made overall was that we have a lot going on in our lives. This year, we just sold our condo January 3rd of this year and then we had to move out, find a new apartment. We're trying to ramp up our business, we had the wedding, and then we've been planning for a couple of years to spend a month or so in Europe come the end of August. So we have just a lot going on right now and I don't know that it was the best time to plan a wedding because we weren't as focused and as diligent with the planning and most specifically, the expenses.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us some examples.

John Schneider:
We first found the location that we wanted to have the wedding. It was a 40 acre ranch in the mountains of Colorado, kind of between Salida and Buena Vista. It was a beautiful ranch, beautiful location, the mountains were in the background. Wonderful. That's all we thought about when we saw the pictures on the website. Then we went and visited the ranch and it wasn't until after the fact that we realized all of the peripheral costs that came with having a wedding at that location.

John Schneider:
We had envisioned that we would be completely out in the open so that people could see the sky and the sunset and the moonrise. And we had learned that every now and then, they get some pretty heavy gusts of wind and that you ran a big risk of people eating dirt if you didn't have a tent there to protect yourselves in case there was some inclement weather.

David Auten:
Yeah.

David Auten:
I think one of the other things about having it at that ranch is we didn't realize, it being in a remote location, it's not on a sewer system that most people are familiar with using. So we actually had to have porta potties brought up, but of course we didn't want the kind of typical green or blue.

John Schneider:
That you see at the park.

David Auten:
Yeah the ones that everyone kind of their stomach turns when you think about them. So we had to pay a little bit extra to have some nice, they were called The Posh Potty or no, the Lavish Loo.

David Auten:
So we had some pretty fancy toilets at our wedding only because we needed to provide that and that did cost us a little extra.

Bobbi Rebell:
How much did they cost? How much does a posh potty cost?

John Schneider:
The Lavish Loo was just under $2,000 for the one night.

David Auten:
We had it for three nights.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which one did you go with? Did you go with The Lavish Loo or the Posh Potty?

John Schneider:
We went with The Lavish Loo and it was really fancy, in fact. We didn't realize how nice it was until after the wedding. That was one of the biggest talking points of the wedding. So we're like, "We have to check this out." There was a men's and women's side. They weren't gigantic, but they were big enough for one or two people they had air conditioning, there was music playing. They had plants inside. There was all sorts of air freshener and all the hand wash, soap. Everything that you could ever want.

John Schneider:
And one of the guys that was actually at the wedding he said he almost thought about sleeping in there that night because it was the coolest place to sleep in.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you did get good value at least from The Lavish Loo.

David Auten:
We did.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right things to everyone should make sure to put into your wedding budget. All right. What else surprised you? What about the traditional expenses? Were there things that you guys just didn't think ... Did you have a wedding planner or somebody guiding you? Did you make a budget in advance of the wedding? So you had a certain fixed amount that you were going to spend and kind of worked back from there and then had to drop things. What was going on here?

David Auten:
We did have a budget from the get go and we hired a wedding planner who was actually a friend of ours and specializes in doing same-sex weddings. And she was wonderful. She acted as a great resource. Not only as a guide to ... There were just things that we never thought of and would never have thought of had we tried to do this on our own. So that was very helpful. Plus she also had an inventory of resources like candle holders and plates and silverware and all that kind of stuff can really rack up your costs that she was willing to give us access to at no additional cost other than her fee.

David Auten:
So that was super helpful partly because we weren't paying enough attention to the management of the expenses. I think we maybe spent about 40% more than what we had originally budgeted.

Bobbi Rebell:
So 40% is a lot and it's clearly not just the $2,000 Lavish Loo.

John Schneider:
We specifically kept the size of the wedding down. So we invited mostly our very supportive friends.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the guest list? How many people about?

David Auten:
We invited about 60, about 41 came I think was the final count.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. And what was your initial budget if you feel comfortable disclosing that?

David Auten:
My original in my mind was that this was going to cost us about $15,000. Like I said, we'd spent probably about 40% more so we did cross the $20,000 mark.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah and the $2,000 then I guess, as a portion of the wedding expense, you spent 10% of your budget on The Lavish Loo.

David Auten:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was a chunk.

John Schneider:
And I think another cost that we didn't manage appropriately was ... so we rented this ranch and it slept a total of 14 people, I believe. And only four of those were single beds. Our idea was that we would have our closest friends stay in the ranch with us and that they would help share in the cost of that. We were negligent at letting them know that in advance of making the offer to them and never asked for the money in advance or never asked for the money afterwards.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for our listeners?

David Auten:
I would definitely say give yourself the time to think about what it is that you truly want. What it is that you truly want, not what you want for your friends, not what you want for your family. What do you want your day to look like? That was one of the things that helped us save some money, but I think that having that extra amount of time to really think through all of the costs that are associated with it.

John Schneider:
In hindsight, even though it was more expensive than we expected it to be, I couldn't get over. I've been so excited about it. We only have so far half a dozen pictures from the wedding, but I look at them all the time. To me, it was just the most amazing week. And so, I think part of that was because we created what we wanted and not what everybody else wanted like David said.

David Auten:
We did find one way to actually get a benefit out of the amount of money that we spent. We opened up two new credit cards, used those credit cards exclusively for the wedding knowing we had the money to pay it off and because of that, we're getting five nights free hotel when we're on our honeymoon in Ireland.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you guys are very good at budgeting and so let's move into your everyday money tip because that has to do with an interesting take you that I think will really help people get their heads wrapped around the different fluctuations in the cost of living.

David Auten:
Yeah so this is what I call money chunking. I kind of joke with John that this is something that he does regularly. He'll grab a pint of Ben & Jerry's and will eat the whole thing. And then throughout the week he's wishing he had ice cream.

Bobbi Rebell:
I can't imagine what that would be like.

John Schneider:
One pint is a serving. I don't care what anybody says. I don't believe [crosstalk 00:10:44].

Bobbi Rebell:
Or else it would be in two different containers, right?

John Schneider:
Thank you.

David Auten:
Right. So the idea with money chunking is I'm the kind of person who would eat a quarter of the pint and then put it back in the freezer, go and eat another quarter of the pint and put it back in the freezer. So that's kind of the idea with money chunking is that when you have an amount of money that you have set aside in your budget for something. Whether that's for the week or for a month, we often times have this tendency to think, "Okay I've got this amount of money." And then you go out and you blow it either the first day or maybe the second into your budget.

David Auten:
And then the rest of the time, whether it's the rest of the week or the rest of the month, you feel like you're sacrificing. You feel like you're not having fun. You feel like you're not able to actually do what it is that you enjoy in life.

David Auten:
When we money chunk, what we do is we'll take that amount of money. Let's say we have $50 for dining out for the week, we'll break that into a couple of pieces so that instead of just one time going out, we actually get to go out two or three times. So it allows us to spread our happiness over the whole budget rather than just those first two nights or first night.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. All right tell me what you guys are up to for the rest of 2018 and beyond.

John Schneider:
Right now we're super excited because we are joining a whole bunch of LGBT entrepreneurs in Philadelphia August 14th through the 17th at the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce Business & Leadership Conference. That's our next event. Then we're going out of the country. We'll be in Ireland for a week followed by three weeks in Spain and that's predominantly for fun. Lik David said, it's our honeymoon. It's also a little bit to celebrate my birthday. But it's also we've created our entire business for the most part, everything that we do with our business other than public speaking, we can do from anywhere in the world.

John Schneider:
So we're trying to test to see how good we are at actually being in Spain near a beach and being able to focus a little bit on the business, but also focus a little bit on having some fun while we're abroad. Shortly after that, we'll be joining you at FinCon in Orlando.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very fun. And where can people learn more about you, follow you on social, and so on?

David Auten:
Sure. On almost every platform, we are @debtfreeguys so that's Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. We are @debtfreeguys. Our website is debtfreeguys.com and then on iTunes, our podcast is called Queer Money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it is climbing up the charts as we speak. So congratulations on all your success.

John Schneider:
Thank you so much for having us on. We appreciate it.

David Auten:
Definitely. We appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, as the guys mentioned, they will see me in Orlando at FinCon. We'd love to see some of my Financial Grownup friends there as well. I'm going to leave a link on how to find out more about FinCon in the show notes. That is at bobbirebell.com/podcast/debtfreeguys and be sure to DM me if you be there so we can connect in Florida.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, here we go. Financial Grownup tip number one. Event planning on a budget 101. Ask for things that you might be able to get for free. So the guys, for example, got candle holders from their party planner. At my wedding, which was a Jewish wedding, the florist asked what we wanted on the chuppah. And the chuppah is basically a canopy that a couple stands under at a wedding and it represents a home.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many people have it constructed these days out of branches and flowers and they are beautiful and fantastic. And most ceremonies that this is used for run about half an hour. So you can spend thousands, you can spend infinite money on this. For me, it was just not that important. So I asked the synagogue if they had one that we could just borrow. And they did. They described it. It was a beautiful deep blue velvet with gold trim, Hebrew lettering and some other décor. It was simple, it was traditional. I loved it. And it was free.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also free basic linens for tables usually come with whoever you're working with, the place, the venue. Instead of going for a layer on top or bows on the chairs, just ask the florist to put aside the non-perfect flower petals or just extra flower petals that are falling off from whatever flower arrangement you have and then use those petals to sprinkle on those standard white tablecloths. And you can also do that, by the way, to dress up the cake. So those are some specific things that you can do.

Bobbi Rebell:
So pick something you're ambivalent about, not the things that you really care about, but the things that you're kind of like, "Eh, I don't care that much about the tablecloths." And see if someone can make that work for you for free.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. The biggest budget buster for the guys was so easy to avoid. When you invite guests to stay at the hotel, include the cost and make sure that they are opting in. In their case, since they did not say anything, their well-intentioned friends probably assumed that it just came with the wedding package and there was no additional costs. That's what I would think.

Bobbi Rebell:
I get the awkwardness of asking after the fact. One possible idea; have a close friend, a very close friend delicately call the people that you've invited to stay at the ranch and explain that you're shy about asking for the cash, but that paying for everyone to stay is not in the wedding couple's budget. Honestly, very few people expect to have the wedding couple pay for their hotel. You could even have your friend say that their wedding gift to the wedding couple could be staying at the hotel and absorbing your own costs and that no further gift is necessary.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's connect. Please be in touch. DM me on social media. I want to hear from you guys and I want to hear what you think about the show, what you want to see more of. We're trying a lot of different things and we're getting great feedback. And I want your feedback.

Bobbi Rebell:
On Instagram, I am @bobbirebell1. On Twitter, @bobbirebell. And thanks to the Debt Free Guys for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Farnoosh Torabi was underpaid and overworked as a young journalist. But a key piece of information put her on the road- albeit a rocky road- to doubling her pay.  

In Farnoosh’s story you will learn:

-What to ask your HR department to find out if you are underpaid

-Strategies to use if your pay is at the low end of the salary range for your job

-When to know it is time to look for a job outside your current company

-How to handle the big question “How much do you want to make” during job interviews

-How to turn an employers promise of a future raise, into an immediate salary bump

In Farnoosh’s lesson you will learn:

-How to most effectively advocate for yourself

-How Farnoosh was able to persevere even when she faced pushback about her compensation

-The importance of getting the information in advance of negotiations

In Farnoosh’s money tip you will learn:

-Why she advocates checking your numbers every day

-What weight and wealth management have in common

-How she uses Mint

-How checking your finances can help catch financial fraud or hackers

In My Take you will learn:

-My mothers suprising negotiating technique

-How I got a salary above my ‘reach’  range by using it

-My dad’s philosophy on how companies show appreciation

-How to handle being offered a higher title and more responsibility- without a pay bump

Episode Links:

Find out more about Farnoosh’s course “Personal Finance for Grads” on Investopedia.com by going to academy.investopedia.com and look for Personal Finance for Grads. 

Be sure to use the code FARNOOSH20 to get 20% off the $99 course lifetime access. 

Farnoosh also mentions Mint, where you can also check out her columns.

You can learn more about Farnoosh Torabi on her website http://farnoosh.tv/

 

Follower her on social media:

Twitter: @FARNOOSH

Instagram @farnooshtorabi

Facebook: www.facebook.com/FarnooshTorabi

Listen to the So Money podcast on itunes

And check out  my episode from when How to be a Financial Grownup came out!

 

---

Transcription

Farnoosh Torabi:
I was in my mid 20s, wanting to get a raise at my job, kept asking over and over again to no avail. Finally, my father clued me in to this term that was really ground-breaking for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what were the magic words my guest's father told her about? And no, they were not, "I quit," or anything like that. But I do promise you, friends, you will learn a lot about the harsh reality of trying to pry more money out of a current employer, emphasis on current.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're also going to learn a whole lot about the power of information. My guest is Farnoosh Torabi. She is a big name in the personal finance space. You probably know her as the host of the So Money podcast. She's also the author of a growing list of best-selling books, which began with the, You're So Money; Live Rich Even when You're Not, published in 2008, and her most recent, When She Makes More. She also has a red hot course on Investopedia on personal finance. What else? I'm going to ask her about it. Here is Farnoosh Torabi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Farnoosh Torabi, you are a financial grownup, and I am so excited to be chatting with you today.

Farnoosh Torabi:
I'm so glad that I earned this designation. Financial grownup, how great. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so happy you're here, and you're definitely a grownup, and by the way, I have you to thank for inspiring me to do this podcast. It was something that I was thinking about for a while, and we had a little conversation in the green room at the 92nd Street Y before a conference, and that was kind of the final push that I needed. So, I am forever grateful, so thank you.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Oh my gosh. Well, I'm glad to help. I'm happy to serve. I'm in. So wonderful that you're doing this. It makes a hundred thousand percent sense.

Bobbi Rebell:
Women podcasting about personal finance is a category that we want to grow, so we're all in this together. Speaking of growing, you are moving into courses. You have a really cool new thing happening with one of my favorite websites, Investopedia.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Investopedia.com basically brought my dreams to life. I've always wanted to do a money course, but as you know, as people listening know, a course is a big project. It's not just the teaching of the course, but it's the marketing, the infrastructure, the sales, the production, and frankly, all that just made me get dizzy and not feel like at all interested. I just wanted to show up and teach.

Bobbi Rebell:
But this is where you say, "It was worth it, though."

Farnoosh Torabi:
It was worth it. Well, they came to me and they're like, "We'll do all the back end stuff if you can just show up and teach," and that was music to my ears. So, together in collaboration, we created a nine-module money course, catered to graduates, people who are just recently out of college, young adults. They're getting their first paycheck, their first real paycheck, and they want to learn how to maximize it, how to make the most of that weekly/monthly paycheck.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So, you're going to learn about how to budget, how to save, how to invest properly, how to earn more, as salaries have been stagnant for a long time, so really excited about that.

Farnoosh Torabi:
If you go to academy.investopedia.com, and you look for Personal Finance for Grads, that's the new name of the course. We ended up switching it, because we wanted it to be really specific about who we were targeting. Personal Finance for Grads. And if you use the code, FARNOOSH20, you'll get 20% off. It's just 99 bucks, but you'll get another 20 bucks off with that code, FARNOOSH20.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, maybe a good graduation present. Just a couple of months from now, people will be graduating. It's a really good thing, even if you're not a graduate, to think about gifting to someone.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Great idea. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for that plug. It's lifetime access, so whether you buy it now, or in six months, or today, you'll have it forever.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good stuff, and by the way, when I was studying for my CFP, Investopedia was my go-to destination when you're looking for some arcane financial term, they have it all there, so that's my nod to Investopedia.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Well, they're the largest resource for financial information, so makes sense that you were able to bank on their definitions.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, no one would have some of these terms, but they have everything there, so they're a good place to check out, and get your course.

Bobbi Rebell:
But I also want to talk to you about the money story that you have brought today, because it has something that I would love to do, which is that it doubled your salary. So, tell me. How exactly did you double your salary?

Farnoosh Torabi:
I was in my mid 20s, wanting to get a raise at my job, kept asking, over and over again, to no avail. Finally, my father clued me in to this term that was really ground-breaking for me. It was what's known as your salary range or your salary band. It's information that human resources typically has at the ready to give you. They're not going to voluntarily give this to you, but it is your right to know.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So, I went to HR, because what this salary band essentially tells you, is what your employer has budgeted for your job, for your post. At the time, I was a producer. I discovered through HR that the salary band for my job at this particular new station, was anywhere from $44,000 up to $85,000/$90,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a big range.

Farnoosh Torabi:
That's a big range, and guess what? I was on the very low end of that range, despite having been there going on three years, doing multiple jobs that were above and beyond my original job requirements-

Bobbi Rebell:
And they didn't just come to you and say, "You're working really hard. Let's just give you [crosstalk 00:06:09]-

Farnoosh Torabi:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
No, really? That's shocking.

Farnoosh Torabi:
When did that ever happen? So, I was taking all the right steps, but this was gold, you know, learning actually what my company at the most, valued me at, was gold. Now, I will say that I used that in my next meeting with my boss, "Since I have some updates, I discovered that I actually can make up to, you know, $90,000 in this role. I've been here for three years. I'm still at the very low end. I'm like in the fifth percentile of this range, so I'm not saying I want to make $90,000, but I do think we could bump me up like five or ten K." And it was, "Okay, maybe when we review budgets." It wasn't like a done deal.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So, then I started to really see the handwriting on the wall, started to look outside for a new job. When I got interviews, I never forgot that salary range, and when I finally got close to a deal at this new employer, and they were talking money, they said, "How much do you want to make?" And I remembered that range, because that range was not ... Look, remember that's not just a range probably for your employer, but it's industry norms.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, companies know what's going on in their sector.

Farnoosh Torabi:
They know what's going on, and this new job that I was interviewing for, was a step up for me, and it was a more senior position, so that range was probably not even valid, but I used it as a baseline. So I said, "I would like to make $100,000." They said, "Well, we don't have a hundred, but we can give you 80."

Bobbi Rebell:
That sounds good.

Farnoosh Torabi:
I said, "Okay, well, you know what? I really, really want a hundred," and they said, "Well, why don't we start at 80, and then in six months we'll review where you're at, and we'll discuss maybe giving you a hundred at that point."

Farnoosh Torabi:
And I'm like, "Okay. This is the time to take all the money you can." When you're in negotiations. In six months, they're not even going to remember what they said about some meeting they wanted to have with you.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So, I said, "Look, can I have 90, and then I won't bother you in six months."

Bobbi Rebell:
I like that.

Farnoosh Torabi:
And they said, "Sure," nice and clean. And you know, so effectively, I doubled my salary. I went from 45 to 90, and I owe credit to knowing that salary range.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, Farnoosh, what is the lesson from your Financial Grownup money story?

Farnoosh Torabi:
The lesson is, you have to be your biggest advocate. You have to continually be curious about what it is you're after. So, I was not going to take "No," for an answer from my boss, and I just kept exploring, and digging, and questioning, "How can I make more money?"

Farnoosh Torabi:
And I talked to my family about it. It ended up my dad was the one who told me about this salary band thing, which I had no idea about. If I hadn't told him about it, I probably wouldn't have walked into HR, and asked them for the number, so don't give up. You know, a "No," is one step closer to a "Yes." As long as you stay curious, and determined.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, let me ask you. Do you have a day-to-day money tip, an everyday thing that you can recommend to people that they can implement right away?

Farnoosh Torabi:
Implement right away. I would say check your numbers every day. Look, I don't do this all the time, but I do step on a scale quite frequently, because I want to make sure that, you know, if I had a pretty crazy weekend of eating, I can check in with myself. I keep myself accountable. Like I'm, "Okay, I've gained a few pounds. I need to be mindful of what I'm putting in my mouth this week."

Farnoosh Torabi:
Your money's the same thing. Like you might have a week or a month where you overspend. It's important to know where you're at at all times, so that you can adjust. You can continually readjust and adjust and fine-tune your finances, but you're never going to be able to do that unless you have the knowledge of where you are financially.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So, on my phone, I am constantly checking my bank balance, my credit card balance. I check my Mint app, just to see am I over-spending, under-spending? I set budget limits for myself. This maybe isn't an every-hour or an every-day thing, but it certainly should be a regular, maybe twice to five times a week kind of thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, it's also smart to check in because there's so much hacking and fraud, that this way you spot it.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Absolutely, right. For that reason alone, you should be checking your bank account.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you for all the amazing advice, and thank you for being part of this new program. We really appreciate it.

Farnoosh Torabi:
My pleasure. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take, guys. Part of being a financial grownup is taking advice from your parents. I'm not always the best negotiator. I'm going to toss this one to my parents, and share some advice that they have given me over the years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup negotiating strategy number one, courtesy of Adele Rebell, the Just Keep Your Mouth Shut technique, meaning let the other person say the first number.

Bobbi Rebell:
True story, I once had a number in mind as a reach for a job. I didn't think I was going to get anywhere near that kind of money, but I kept my mouth shut, let them make the first move, and the offer came in $10,000 higher than that reach number.

Bobbi Rebell:
Then, I sat there. I was calm, cool, collected, pretended it wasn't enough money, asked for more, and you know what? I got another $5,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
Bonus tip, by the way, from my mother, the Keep Your Mouth Shut strategy can also work for losing weight. I'm a CFP, not a nutritionist, but guys, it does work, because of course you eat less food.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, back to our focus on money. Financial Grownup strategy number two, comes from my father, Arthur Rebell. Companies show love and appreciation with money. Companies may try to distract you with a fancy new title and lots of new responsibilities, but then they don't give you a meaningful raise.

Bobbi Rebell:
Imagine if you tried to pay your Visa bill by saying, "Well, my budget's tight, but I'm going to call you my Senior Global Credit Card. Yeah, not so much. Take the higher title, and say "Yes," to moving up in terms of responsibilities. That's all good, but just know, it is not the same as a raise. Companies show love through compensation, aka money. So try to keep the focus on the money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for the amazing feedback that we have already been getting on the program. It is truly appreciated. Please subscribe, download, share, review, rate, all that good stuff. We need it. We are a brand new podcast. All of your support means the world to us.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope everyone enjoyed the show, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

After 148 rejections in the first funding round, Kathryn Minshew co-founder and CEO of the Muse took note of what she did wrong and upped her game when she went looking for new financing. Minshew scored close to $30 million thanks to the new approach. 

 

In Kathryn’s money story you will learn

-How Kathryn and the Muse team re-vamped their strategy the second time they raised money

-How Kathryn rebounded from the 148 rejections in the seed round of financing

-How The Muse raised $30 million from investors

-How they were able to ask for less money and come out with more than the original targets

-The way Kathryn structured her process when pitching investors

-How they organized their pitches and research to be more effective

-Kathryn’s investor prioritization strategy

-The specific thing Kathryn said to investors to get them to the table faster- and with more interest in her company

-How a second round of financing is different- and should be approached differently from a seed round

In Kathryn’s lesson you will learn:

-The advice Kathryn found most helpful from her networks and mentors

-How she got help from other entrepreneurs

-How to tell if the investors are wrong not to invest- or if your idea and pitch is missing the mark

-How to figure out who your end users are- and why it is important

-Strategies and specific things to ask in order to get honest input about your company

In Kathryn’s money tip you will learn:

-Negotiations can be about more than just cash

-How to ask for signing bonuses, signing bonuses, flextime, vacation time, better titles.

-Why budgets for professional training are essential and how to negotiate for them

In my take you will learn:

-How to learn lessons from rejection, and incorporate them in your next venture

-The importance of taking the time to throughtfully plan and customize presentations and pitches

-How to level the playing field even when the other party is clearly more powerful. 

Episode links:

TheMuse.com

Kathryn’s book with Muse co-founder Alexandra Cavoulacos The New Rules of Work

Follow Kathryn and The Muse!

Instagram @kminshew @themuse

Twitter: @Kmin and @TheMuse and @TheNewRules

Facebook  https://www.facebook.com/thedailymuse

https://www.facebook.com/minshew

---

Transcription

Kathryn Minshew:
If you tell someone you're the founder of a company and ask for their input, they are more likely to give you positive impact because they don't want to hurt your feelings. If you tell them that you're a consultant helping a company understand how its market positioning lands, or helping a company better understand what it's doing well and what it's not, people are much more likely to give you totally unfiltered feedback for the series A because I was running a process.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to "Financial Grownup" with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup". You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everybody. This is an episode about rejection, and what you would do differently the second time around. How to tell were they wrong to reject you? Maybe your message could be a little bit more on point. The Muse founder and CEO, Kathryn Minshew has told the story many times of how she and her colleagues were rejected 148 times when they when to raise money for their startup, The Muse. Once the company got off the ground, it has been a massive success, and many people would say, "Well, those 148 people, they must be so sorry that they rejected it." And of course, that is true to some extent. But also, Kathryn looks back and realizes she had a lot that she would do differently the next time. And in fact, she did do it differently when she went back for the next round of financing, and that's what we talked about. Here is Kathryn Minshew.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kathryn Minshew, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the program.

Kathryn Minshew:
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you are well known as the founder and CEO of The Muse, the amazing job site, and also well known for being rejected when you went to raise money. Tell me how many, 140 something times?

Kathryn Minshew:
148 times. It was like rejection for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, with a few meetings and noes inbetween for fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you are the queen of resilience, and one thing that you talk about in your book, "The New Rules of Work", which I should have mentioned to everybody. She is the author of a fabulous career book called "The New Rules of Work".

Bobbi Rebell:
You talk about your personal brand, and how important it is to define it. That fundraising and the lack of it for so long became your personal brand. So you brought with you a money story that has to do with what happened next, after you finally did get the initial funding and you went back for me. Tell us.

Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. Well, first of all, I'll say it's much easier as we all know to talk about failure once you've moved past it. So it became much easier to tell the story of the 148 noes after we had already successfully raised our series A and B rounds. So we've raised almost $30 million in venture capital so far for The Muse.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing.

Kathryn Minshew:
It's been a totally wild ride. So my financial story involves what I set out to do, or rather what I did in the series A to ensure that we had an outcome that was very different than the seed round. Because, obviously, I knew how important it was for that next round, to get it right from the go-ahead. And so to try and condense the story into something very quick, we wanted to go out and initially we were thinking about raising six to $7 million. But actually given the advice that I got while preparing for a fundraise, we were actually told to start out saying we were thinking five to six or five to seven, and then slowly let the demand build. So instead of us going out for a big number and being less sure if the market would respond, start out with a smaller number. And then, if the market is really excited about our business, let the negotiations and the demand push it up, which ended up working really well for us because we ended up raising 10 million after we had overwhelming demand.

Kathryn Minshew:
I also was incredibly structured about the process probably because I was a little bit paranoid after having such a difficult time with our seed round. So ahead of time, I really worked the story, got all of our metrics out there. I thought about how best to position them, which numbers to lead with, what to put first so that we could really grab people's attention. We were obviously lucky in that we had really great revenue growth and a lot of very strong metrics.

Kathryn Minshew:
And then, I actually created a spreadsheet. I took all of the investors that I was even remotely interested in talking to. I put them in a spreadsheet. Divided it up by location, so that when I was in New York, San Francisco, Boston, Chicago, DC, et cetera, I could meet with people who were there. Then, I included information about whether they had invested in any similar companies, any competitors. Any companies that might give them a better understanding into what we did at The Muse. I would include notes from different meetings. I actually would also rank how excited I was after each meeting to continue conversations, so I could prioritize the ones that I was most excited about. I would say that really helped to keep me on track, and so we were also able to run a pretty tight process, where we pinned all of our first meetings with investors to the same two-and-a-half or three-week period.

Kathryn Minshew:
It was really interesting because in the seed round, we had a lot of trouble with investors saying, "Oh, I'm busy, right now. But how about in a month?" I wasn't confident enough in the business, so we would just take whatever we could get for the series A because I was running a process. I would write back to people and be like, "You know I'd love to talk, but unfortunately, I need to get all of our first meetings done by X date. So I can push it a few days, but let me know if you're going to be able to make it work. And if not, I'm totally fine. We'll keep in touch and maybe there'll be another round that you can participate in." And what was fascinating is a lot of people would say, "Oh, let me move around my schedule. Absolutely, I can make it work." And suddenly, we were negotiating from a more even position. And the ones that weren't able to or the ones that said, "No, sorry. I can't do it," they probably would have never backed the company to begin with.

Bobbi Rebell:
True. Do you think looking back, obviously when you were going for the most money, the second round, you were a stronger situation to begin with. But had you used the techniques that you were now using that you just talked about, would you have had more success the first time?

Kathryn Minshew:
You know, maybe. It's so hard to know because the seed round for a startup is really different than later rounds because people aren't necessarily looking at your metrics. They are to some extent, but they're really betting on you. And I think the fact that it was my first proper company that I was fairly young at the time, this was six-and-a-half years ago, so it was very early in my career. And I think that plus the lack of knowledge or understanding about what we were trying to do in the business were some of the biggest concerns. So I do think we could have had a better time and controlled the process a bit more, but I also think there were just some fundamental and structural things that we had to get through and really prove on very limited capital before we could really go out and successfully fundraise from bigger investors.

Bobbi Rebell:
So now, what is your advice to listeners and especially want-to-be entrepreneurs that are looking to raise money, start businesses, and especially to young women?

Kathryn Minshew:
I would say, firstly, you can't understate the importance of perseverance because it is so hard in the early days. But I think that doesn't mean that you just keep doing the same thing without adjusting your tactics and thinking about how you could be more strategic. I found it to be so invaluable to get the advice from others, especially other female entrepreneurs. Because sometimes we have a lot of great friends who are entrepreneurs, who are men, but sometimes the tactics or the approaches or behaviors that would work for them, didn't work the same when I did them because of unintentional or unconscious bias or other things. And so I found that it was really helpful to surround myself with a network of entrepreneurs of both genders to get a lot of advice, to test out different approaches to see what felt natural and normal to me. Because if it feels too unnatural to you, investors will probably pick up on that, and it won't help you communicate that confidence that you are looking for when you're starting to talk to investors about your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
So one last question about this for our listeners, how do you know the difference between maybe your idea just isn't that good, and that's why you're not getting funding and you should stop, or you should persevere as you did because your idea just isn't hitting the right people at the right time with the right message?

Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. So you've just gotten to the crux of what makes this so hard, which is that there is no silver bullet, and you will never have 100% confidence or certainty either way, which is incredibly difficult. However, I think there are a few things you can use to help you directionally get that sense of whether your business is likely to be successful. The first, and I think the most important is to figure out who are your end users and do as much as possible to get unfiltered feedback from them.

Kathryn Minshew:
For example, if you tell someone you're the founder of a company and ask for their input, they're more likely to give you positive input because they don't want to hurt your feelings. If you tell them that you're a consultant helping a company understand how its marketing positioning lands or helping a company better understand what its doing well and what it's not, people are much more likely to give you totally unfiltered feedback, and you need that unfiltered feedback when you're trying to ascertain if you really need to keep pushing forward on your business.

Kathryn Minshew:
So in my case, even though we were getting rejection, after rejection, after rejection from a lot of investors, we were hearing things from our users and from people who were signing up to use The Muse that indicated we had tapped a nerve and we were on a path that people love. They wanted us to use the product. They'd say I love The Muse, but can you do these five things? Make it better here. Change this. That's all positive feedback because that shows you that there is a need. You just have to keep getting better, and I think that is what gave me the oomph to keep going. But I will just call out it's not like I knew the whole time, oh my gosh, this is a great idea. I just have to keep going. I definitely struggled with whether I should accept that these people that were much more experienced than I, that were successful investors, maybe they knew something I didn't, and I just had hubris.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's do a money tip. You are the career guru, and you have so many amazing ideas and tips in your book. I wanted to pull some out of there and get maybe your favorite tips that people can use in their careers, and their ventures that they could maybe put to work ASAP at their next job interview or their next negotiation, what have it.

Kathryn Minshew:
I thought through a lot of different things I could share here, and the one I came up with that I wanted to talk about today is the fact that when you negotiate, it is not just all about cash and I think it can be really empowering to realize that because so many of us have anxiety about negotiating a salary, negotiating a raise. Whether it's at the beginning of a job search, or when you're getting a promotion. But I would encourage people, remember that there are a lot of other things you can negotiate for.

Kathryn Minshew:
So obviously, base salary is the thing that people talk about most. But what about signing bonuses, performance bonuses if you achieve certain things? You can also negotiate for flex time, for vacation time, for a better title that might help you in your career. One of the most creative things that I've heard is people negotiating for a budget for professional development and training.

Bobbi Rebell:
Specific money. In other words, not just saying, "Will you send me," in theory. It's very specific.

Kathryn Minshew:
Oh, very specific. In fact, there was someone at an organization that had mandatory salary bans that the leadership wasn't able to go beyond, and so she said great. Why don't you dedicate ... I think it was five or $10,000 towards training development conference that will include my travel, and that will help level me up to be a better employee for you, to let me do my job better, and it won't invalidate the salary cap. This will just be another way that you're investing in my growth, and they said yes, and I think that is such a great example of creativity when it comes to negotiation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. That's such great advice. Thank you so much. Tell us quickly before we wrap up, what are you guys up to at The Muse these day, and where can people find you?

Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. So people can find me at The Muse or @kmin on Twitter. As a company, we are doing a lot right now, but we have been really focusing on we rolled out a new feature called Discussions on TheMuse.com, where people can ask and answer each other's questions. So if you have a career question or you want to learn more about negotiating a raise, we've got a way now to get advice from our community and hear other people's stories. And then, I'm also just kind of fascinated down the road by continuing to explore this idea of how people make the best career decisions, how they find the right fits, and how we help companies tell their stories in a more genuine and authentic way that isn't about just come work here, we're great, but really shares the information people need to know to decide do I want to be part of that organization, or be part of that company?

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Here's my take on what Kathryn had to say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip, number one. Like she did, do your homework, including learning what went wrong the first time. Even if you think the companies or whomever you were pitching to were wrong to reject your idea, we all have room for improvement. Kathryn went out and asked for advice, for example, about how much money to ask for. She actually went for a smaller number based on the advice as a strategy, and ended up raising more money, so it worked. She was also much more organized and structured in her preparations the second time around. She was specific to each company, and deliberate in her presentation. She planned geographically, so she could be efficient with her time. Kathryn even ranked how excited she was about prospects, so she could prioritize and focus on her resources and the best alow there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip, number two. Stand up for yourself, even if you need them more than they need you. In Kathryn's second round, when prospects said they didn't have the time to meet with her any time soon, she pushed back and was not only able to get them to the table faster when they were interested, but also to level the playing field for a stronger negotiating position.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for listening to this episode of financial grownup. Please subscribe if you have not already. Reviews are great if you have just a few minutes. You can follow me @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and learn more about the show at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. I hope that you all enjoyed this episode of "Financial Grownups" with The Muse's Kathryn Minshew, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
"Financial Grownup" with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart, and is a BRK Media production.

Shark Tank’s Kevin O’Leary shares a story about his mother and a secret he learned about after she passed away. The Entrepreneur, who is also behind O’Shares and O’Leary Ventures  reveals in the story how his mothers choices informed his investing style, which is heavily focused on dividends. 

He goes on to discuss the two types of investments his mother chose, including her thinking and mindset in making those choices. 

O'Leary also talks about the importance of the tax changes and why that is something that will benefit investors who follow his strategy. 

In his money tip Kevin explains how people who can’t save can find the money to get on track. He also reveals another lesson from his mother that was a bit surprise. O'Leary also shares his 90 day money test that he does with his wealthy friends to help them stay rich. 

O'Leary talks about an app that he launched  called Beanstox that allows investors to buy small dollar amounts of ETF’s and market-leading stocks. It gets people into investing without having to commit large amounts of capital up-front. 

Links to things mentioned in this episode

Kevin O’Leary’s financial literacy books the Cold Hard Truth series can be found here. 

His app to start investing can be found at Beanstox

To learn more about the companies he backs as well as his wine business and more, go to O’LEARY VENTURES

Kevin also talked about his ETF business O'Shares

In his story about his mom he spoke about Chanel and Gucci

Books I recommended in the episode: 

The Opposite of Spoiled by Ron Lieber

Smart Money Smart Kids, Raising the next generation to win with money by Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruz

Make your Kid a Money Genius even if you are not by Beth Kobliner

 

Money A-Z Scott Alan Turner

Steve Jobs, The man who thought different by Karen Blumenthal

 

I also mention Fincon which is a fantastic conference for anyone who creates content about money, 

---

Transcription

Kevin O'Leary:
The executor called me and said, "Look, your mother has kept a secret account from both of your husbands her whole life, you should come here because you're not going to be executor of this".

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grown Up, and you know what, being the grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, welcome to this edition of Financial Grown Up, and for those of you who have not guessed yet, yes that was the voice of Kevin O'Leary, aka Mr. Wonderful on Shark Tank. He is going to join us in just a moment to share a story about a secret, a financial lesson secret that he learned from his mother only after she passed away. It is a great story and it's gonna change your whole mindset about how you think about investing, so stick with me here. I just want to do a quick introduction to Kevin, tell you guys a little bit more about him for the maybe one or two people out there that don't know exactly who Kevin O'Leary is.

Bobbi Rebell:
He is a serial entrepreneur. He's got his own ventures including an investment company that focuses on dividend ETS. He also is in the wine business and of course, O'Leary Venture supports all the Shark Tank companies that he's invested in. Recent success of note, Plated, which he sold for a cool 300 million dollars. He's also got a really interesting app I want you guys to hear about and you will hear about it in just a moment. Here is Kevin O'Leary.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kevin O'Leary you are a financial grown up and I'm so excited you are on the podcast. Welcome.

Kevin O'Leary:
Great to be here. Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you are, of course, so special in my heart because you are such an advocate for financial literacy. You make it part of everything that you do, including your entrepreneurial ventures. Before we get to the financial grown up moment that you're gonna share with us, I do wanna have you tell us more about the app Beanstox. Tell us about Beanstox.

Kevin O'Leary:
You know, for the last few years I've been teaching at colleges and high schools and I've just been stunned by the fact that we teach young people in America pretty well everything about math and reading, geography, even sex education, but we never talk to them about financial literacy. We never teach them how to invest, and even when I teach graduating cohorts of engineers at places like MIT, Harvard, Notre Dame, Temple, I'm blown away that these young people going off in the workforce have never bought a stock or bonds.

Kevin O'Leary:
So, the genesis of Beanstox, and I've spelt it B-E-A-N-S-T-O-X, is an app. You download it and it allows you to buy fractional shares of your favorite stocks or exchange traded funds, which means if you only have $2 to invest, or $5, or $10 or whatever you've got, you can actually own a real share and learn about how the prices go up and down, when dividends get paid, and just to build a diversified portfolio. I find when you do that on your mobile device, you actually watch it every day. Some people go on 10 times a day, and I've just been thrilled.

Kevin O'Leary:
Hundreds of thousands of them have been downloaded now. People have set up accounts, even if they only put in 50 bucks a month, it's great to start investing because the truth about America is the average salary is $52,000 a year, and if you started investing just 10% of your income at the age of 22, by the time you're 65, if the markets do what they have done for the last 50 years, which is give you six to seven percent a year of return, you'll have 1.2 million dollars sitting in the bank for-

Bobbi Rebell:
Very nice, all right, everybody check out Beanstox now. I'm really excited for you to share your financial grown up moment money story because my mom passed away a few years ago and it's, in some ways, only in retrospect that I learned some really important lessons from her, and you learned a big lesson from your mom at that time.

Kevin O'Leary:
Yes, when she passed away, I was the older son. I'm two years older than my brother, so the executer called me and said, "Look, your mother's kept a secret account from both of her husbands her whole life, you should come here because you're now gonna be the executor of this" and when I got there, I was blown away. I mean she ... I had always wondered how she'd provided for my brother and I, her sisters, and her extended family. She always seemed to have money, and what she had done is she had done exactly that.

Kevin O'Leary:
She had put aside more than 10% of her paycheck when she was a young woman, and she invested in two types of securities. 50% of this portfolio were in large cap dividend paying stocks, and the other half were in Telco bonds, five to seven year bonds and her thinking was that nobody would ever let their phone be disconnected by not paying their bill, so she trusted Telco Company, and this portfolio, over 50 years, outperformed everybody else in the family's, so I did some research.

Kevin O'Leary:
It really changed my mind forever about investing. 70% of the returns of the stock market over the last 50 years have come from dividends, not capital appreciation, so I never buy a stock today that doesn't pay a dividend. I learned that from my mother, and her whole mantra was never spend the principle, only the interest. She was so right about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's interesting because that really did inform your whole approach to investing and your whole business, when it comes to your ETF business.

Kevin O'Leary:
Yes. O'Shares is build around her philosophy. We don't have a single security in any of our O'Shares funds, including the new midcap one OUSM. The reason I'm really intrigued with midcap stocks in America today, the ones that pay dividends, is because of this tax reform. They used to pay 36% tax, now they pay 21, so their cash flows this year are going to grow up by 15 to 20% more free cash. And if you look at the Russell 2,000, which is the universe of all the small companies in America, 339 are profitable and pay tax, and they're all captured in OUSM.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, all right so, what is the take away lesson from that story? Do you wish, for example, that you talked to your mom more about her money philosophy and what she was doing?

Kevin O'Leary:
Basically the take away story is this. When you start saving, there's two aspects to your saving. There's the principal, the money you're putting away, and then there's the interest you make off the principal, or the dividends you get if you bought a stock. What she basically said was it's okay to spend and live off the dividends and interest, but it's not okay to spend the principal, because once you spend the principal, you never get it back.

Kevin O'Leary:
The principal is what makes the money for you, so that philosophy is, you live off interest, you live off dividends, and that's how you monetize your lifestyle, but you never dip in to your principal. Some people say, well I really wanna buy a boat, I wanna buy a bigger house, I wanna buy something and I can't because I don't make enough, and they spend their principal. That always ends badly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, all right. Your mom was definitely a financial grown up and certainly we appreciate you sharing what she taught you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before you go, give us a money tip for our listeners. Something that you do that maybe they can emulate that can make a difference in their financial wellbeing right now. Something they can implement today.

Kevin O'Leary:
I've learned this years and years ago, and again taught to by my mother. When you go out every day, the whole world is designed to take money from you. That's how they market and tell you to buy this or get a new latte or buy new jeans or a new pair of shoes. Every time you get tempted to buy something, and I do this even to this day, I ask myself, do I really need this thing, do I really need it because when I take it, I take my cash and I buy it, I'm basically killing those dollars in terms of them making me interest or dividends because I bought those shoes or I bought those pants or I bought whatever it was.

Kevin O'Leary:
People say to me, well I can't save 10% of my salary. I'm living paycheck to paycheck, and I always remind them what my mother said, yes you can. You buy so much crap that you don't need and anybody can look in their closet and look at all the stuff they don't wear anymore. The shoes they don't wear or the junk they bought, and so I've really, really learned, buy really good things once in a while. And I'll tell you the anecdotal story.

Kevin O'Leary:
When my mother passed away, the women in my family fought like cats or dogs because all her clothes were Channel and Gucci and really good stuff that she kept for decades, but she didn't buy any crap, and that was her lesson to me. Buy a good suit. Buy a great pair of shoes, but don't buy a bunch of junk. That way you feel good about what you own, but you save a lot of money, and I've been able to cut my spending by a ton because I don't buy crap, and because she taught me that.

Kevin O'Leary:
Even wealthy people I work with, I do this special test with them, I say get a piece of paper, just two sheets, you don't need any technology.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh no.

Kevin O'Leary:
And write down all of the things you make money from in 90 days, and all the money you spend in 90 days, and even really wealthy people outspend their income, and they learned sobering basis. That's my lesson. Do your 90 day test, but don't buy crap. You don't need it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much Kevin O'Leary. It was such a pleasure having you. We will all keep tuning in to Shark Tank and all your other ventures, thank you.

Kevin O'Leary:
Take care.

Bobbi Rebell:
I always love talking with Kevin O'Leary, he's an amazing advocate for financial literacy and such an inspiration. Here is my take and it probably won't surprise you guys. Financial grown up tip number one, talk to your parents about money, and yes, get their advice, but also try to get them to open up about what they did right and also, just as important, what they would have done differently. Get them to share their financial grown up moments, their money stories. When we're kids, our parents often shelter us from what is really going on behind the scenes in our daily lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
For example, I remember as a teenager, my family moved into a bigger and newer house. Now, I didn't think that much about it, when I saw my mom putting towels over the windows. It was a little weird, but you know parents can be weird. What I learned later on was that they had really stretched to buy the house, and they were waiting, holding off to buy the window coverings, so my mom was basically making due with what she had, and really, it was just fine, no big deal.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, financial grown up tip number two, if and when you have kids, make a plan for how you want them to learn about money. There is no right or wrong plan here, every kid has different ways of learning and every family has different things that are right for them. Find out what works for you guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Some resources though, I am a big fan of a book called The Opposite Of Spoiled by Ron Lieber. Another classic to check out, Smart Money, Smart Kids by Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruise, and finally, Make Your Kid A Money Genius by Beth Kobliner. Check them out. And, for fun, I was recently gifted a book at FinCon by Scott Allen Turner called Money A To Z. It was a lot of fun to read with my child, and of course, don't shy away from business stories for kids, especially as they get older.

Bobbi Rebell:
Harry is now 10 and we are reading about Steve Jobs. The actual book title if you guys wanna check it out is Steve Jobs The Man Who Thought Different. It is by Karen Blumenthal. It's opening up a lot of discussions about funding a start up and all the different things that go into a business. It's also interesting to read about Steve Jobs and all of his personal quirks, so I will leave it to you guys to see if you wanna read that book with your children or just check it out yourself.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for listening to Financial Grown Up. We are new and we need your support. Please subscribe to this podcast and then of course, be sure to rate and review it on iTunes and especially please share this with your friends. And until next time, I am wishing all of you financial freedom.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is a BRK Media production.

Fran Hauser became a financial grownup very young, helping her immigrant parents build their businesses by doing the books and serving as a liaison to clients as early as 1st grade. The author of “The Myth of the Nice Girl, Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate” now applies those early life lessons to her search for  startup investment opportunities.   

 

In Fran’s money story you will learn:

-How growing up as the english speaking daughter of Italian immigrants impacted her path to being a financial grownup

-What it was like to be preparing invoices for her parents businesses starting in 1st grade

-What she learned about risk and investment from observing her father’s strategies

-How her parents took risks despite their disadvantages, and the impact that had on her current risk tolerance

-How she integrates those skills when she considers startup investors in her current role as an early stage investor

-The specific characteristics she looks for when evaluating startups

In Fran’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to conquer fear of mistakes

-The importance of integrating kindness and respect

In Fran’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How Fran teachers her children about money using a 5 gallon water jug

-How much they saved

-How they spent the money!

In My Take you will learn:

-The impact of saying Thank You instead of Sorry

-How the correct tone in which a message is delivered can make it more effective

Bobbi and Fran also talk about:

-Her new book The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate

-What inspired Fran to write the book after more than a decade of planning

-The unique scripts that are in the book that readers can use to execute the strategies Fran teaches

-What the Nice Girl Army is, and how you can laern more about it

-Fran’s plans now that the book has been a best seller!

Episode Links:

Learn more about Fran at her website Franhauser.com

 

Buy Fran’s book! http://www.franhauser.com/nicegirl/

 

Follow Fran!

instagram fran_hauser

twitter @fran_hauser

  

---

Transcription

Fran Hauser:
When my father was asked to go look at a job, a potential client, and give them an estimate, he wasn't able to understand the directions to actually get to the house. So I would listen in on another phone and write down the directions, and then I would go in the car to the residence, and then I would get out and I basically be the translator.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, that was author, Fran Hauser. Now, this is a very big interview for me because she is very much in demand after her book, The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate, became a huge hit this summer. It has many of us rethinking the things that women thought we had to do to succeed. No more mean girls, and there's a lot in there for men as well. So stay with me everyone, this is not just for women listeners. Special welcome to our new listeners, if you are returning, thank you as well for your support. We keep the shows to about 15 minutes so you can easily fit it into your busy schedule, but we also release three episodes a week. So feel free to binge if you're commuting, just make sure to select auto download after you subscribe so that they'll be in your feed automatically. It's all about making it easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Fran. After a long career in media, which included being the president of digital at Time, she is now an investor in startups, and she got a lot of the training for that from her upbringing being a very active part of her parents businesses. Here is Fran Hauser.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Fran Hauser, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Fran Hauser:
Hi Bobbi, great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the incredible success of your book, The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love, circled in a bright red circle, Without Becoming a Person You Hate, big X over the 'Hate' of course. Since the book's come out it's been named so many different things, including an Amazon Best Business Book of 2018, best new book by People magazine and Refinery 29, most anticipated title of April by Bustle, I mean I could just basically go on. Congratulations on all of that, Fran.

Fran Hauser:
Oh thank you. It's really been amazing, I feel so grateful.

Bobbi Rebell:
You came to us with a story that's really meaningful, because it has to do with your whole family and the money experiences that you learned growing up from your parents, in the town where my sister now lives, Mount Kisco, and you were their bookkeeper in their businesses in first grade, tell us about that.

Fran Hauser:
Yes. So my parents are Italian immigrants who moved to Mount Kisco, as you said, and like many immigrants it took a lot of courage to make this move. They were uneducated, they didn't speak the language, and they were moving to a place that was completely foreign to them. What each of my parents did have though, was a skill. So my father was a stonemason, my mother was really good at sewing, so they both started small businesses. My dad a stonemeasonry business, and my mom opened up a tailoring shop with her best friend. Being the oldest of four, they needed my help, especially when it came to communication. So when I was in first grade I was preparing all of my dad's invoices. One memory that I have is I could only add at that point in time, I couldn't multiply yet, so my aunt actually created a sales tax chart for me, so that if the monthly maintenance was $300, I could see exactly what the sales tax was, and then just add the two numbers together.

Fran Hauser:
So that was first grade, and then even in middle school I was helping my mother with marketing. So helping her come up with a logo, and getting different marketing and sales materials printed. So I got exposed to business at a very young age, and even understanding things like revenue, and expense, cashflow, you know seeing that when more cash comes in than goes out, decisions that need to be made around what to do with that extra money. It was really interested watching my dad because he took some calculated risks and invested in both commercial and residential real estate, which proved to be fruitful. I would say at a very, very, very young age I played this role of bookkeeper/marketer/general manager.

Fran Hauser:
Another vivid memory I have that I'll just share with you is when my father was asked to go look at a job, a potential client, and give them an estimate, he wasn't able to understand the directions to actually get to the house. So I would listen in on another phone and write down the directions, and then I would go in the car with him and we would actually drive to the residence together, and then I would get out and I would basically be the translator for him. So that was my childhood, pretty unconventional.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Very unconventional. How did you assume this role? Were there specific deliberate conversations, or did it just evolve organically as you grew up in the household?

Fran Hauser:
It really evolved organically, because I was the oldest. Really, these things just fell on me. It made sense, if something was broken, even in the house, and needed to be repaired, I would be the one to call the plumber or the contractor, and at the time it felt really hard. It was frustrating, for sure, at times because I just felt so different from all of my "American" friends, who were doing sleepovers and play dates, and I had so much more responsibility. Obviously, looking back, it was actually such an incredible experience, because I learned so much, not just about business but also about risk taking. Watching my parents, who had so much going against them, they were at such a disadvantage, but they were still able to take these risks. Whether it was building these businesses, or investing in real estate, and if you look at my career, I've taken many risks in my career. I've reinvented myself several times. I left Coca-Cola and the late nineties to go to an early stage internet company, Movie Phone. Or five years ago, I left a really comfortable job at Time Inc. to move into startup investing.

Fran Hauser:
So I haven't been afraid to take risks, and I think a lot of that comes from seeing how disadvantaged my parents were, and feeling like if they could take risks, I should be able to.

Bobbi Rebell:
I wanted to ask you, so you mentioned, and I was going to bring this up, that you now are a startup investor. How did this background in business and understanding risks, and understanding strategy and marketing, and even just the basic economics of business, how does that inform your approach as an investor now?

Fran Hauser:
So I think in a lot of ways. For starters, when I'm evaluating the entrepreneurs I'm looking at them and I'm saying, "Do they have the capacity to take risks? Will they jump in with both feet?" And I'm also looking at what kind of mindset do they have? Are they optimistic? I always felt like my parents approached every single venture with such optimism, and with an abundance mindset, and treating people kindly and with respect. So those are things that I really look for in an entrepreneur, and then the other side of it is the brass tactics operational side, which is I feel like I'm really good at looking at financials and understanding what the risks are, really getting nitpicky when it comes to the assumptions that are being used. So I feel like I can look at a PnL pretty quickly, and projected cashflows, and all that good stuff, and I'm just co comfortable. I'm so comfortable with numbers, and I'm so comfortable with looking at forecasts and really trying to make sense of it, and also understanding is there a there there?

Fran Hauser:
The other part too, I would say, is just understanding markets, understanding consumers. I think that also comes from just having spent so much time with my parents clients. So it's impacted me as an investor in so many different ways.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson then, for our listeners from this, that they can apply to their businesses, and to some degree, to their lives?

Fran Hauser:
I would say the lesson is to not be afraid to take risks, and when you do so, really approach it with a mindset of abundance and optimism, and don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to go all in and to jump in with both feet, and then also the last thing I would say, which really ties back to the book, is to treat people with kindness and respect, because I think you look at my parents who barely spoke a word of english, and they were still able to communicate through a lot of nonverbal cues, and a lot of that had to do with being charming, and being kind, and that will take you far.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because the book is really all about being nice, but in a strategic and smart way.

Fran Hauser:
Yes, being nice in a way where you're not a pushover, and you're not veering into people pleasing territory. It's really about how you can be both nice and strong. Those two things are not mutually exclusive, and that you bring both of those into virtually any situation at work.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your everyday money tip, because one thing that I love about this is it's very specific, and tangible, and something we can all do pretty much right away.

Fran Hauser:
Yeah, I love this. So what we do in my house is, instead of a normal piggy bank, we collect coins in a five gallon water jug. The kids love it because it's so much bigger than a piggy bank, and it's clear, so you can see the progress. The last time we cashed it in the coins were worth $4000, and it took us several years to fill it up, but it's just a really fun way to teach your kids about saving and about goals.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you cash it in, what's that experience like? Is it one of the machines, or do you bring it to a bank?

Fran Hauser:
It's actually hysterical because it's so heavy, so what you have to do is we put duct tape over the top of it to close it, and then we literally roll it-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my God.

Fran Hauser:
We have to roll it down the-

Bobbi Rebell:
You could get a smaller container, Fran, you know that?

Fran Hauser:
I know, but it's part of the experience, I guess. So much fun, and then we literally bring it into the bank. The teller always has so much fun with it, because it's not something that they usually see.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you do with the $4000 then?

Fran Hauser:
The first time we did it my husband and I, it was actually pre-kids, so we ended up spending it on a really great spa vacation, which was great. Just the two of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
That works.

Fran Hauser:
That works, right? And now with the kids we're just starting to talk to them about, "Okay, what do we want to spend it on?" And that's also really fun, because it allows you to bat around ideas and then have something that you're really excited about, you have something to look forward to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. We'll have to get an update and put it in the show notes as to where the money goes. I want to spend just a couple of minutes talking about your book, because it's had so much impact.

Fran Hauser:
Yes. The book is really my response to a question that I get asked all the time, which is, "How can you be so nice, and still be successful?" It's just a topic that I've found myself talking about quite a bit, and it's something that I really believe. Being nice, and being empathetic, and collaborative, and having an abundance mindset. All of those things have really served me well in my career. If I think about some of the bigger promotions that I received, or if I was asked to work on a really high profile project, a lot of that came back to my ability to build relationships and earn trust, and a lot of that goes back to being nice.

Fran Hauser:
So the book is really actual, I mean it's inspiring, but I think what makes it special is I am such an operator at heart that I really wanted to make sure that we filled it with tips, and techniques, and scripts. There are so many scripts for navigating sticky situations.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, there are very specific things, because people think, "Well, this happens to me, what do I ..." they literally don't have the words. Like when someone takes credit for an idea that you had, you go into exactly what to do, which is important.

Fran Hauser:
Yes, and I have to tell you one really cool thing, just over the past week I've had three different women tell me that they all got really big raises using my advice in the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Fantastic. And now, you're now working on this Nice Girl Army, right? That's your saying on social media, and you bring together all these different stories that relate to that.

Fran Hauser:
Yes. My Nice Girl Army is actually a group of ambassadors that I put together, probably about six to nine months ago. A lot of them are former mentees, or current mentees, they really love the message in the book, and they've really gotten behind the book. It's basically a Google group I've created where we all communicate with one another, and they've all been so helpful in promoting the book, and I think from a hashtag perspective, it's taken on this bigger movement feel to it. It's just been really fun to see women who I don't know reading the book and using that hashtag, and saying how much they love the book, and how much it's helped them.

Fran Hauser:
So I think in terms of what I'm thinking about next, it's really how do I take all of this great content that's in the book, and what else can I do with that content? So I'm just starting to think about some product extensions from the book, which is really exciting, and then still doing my day job, which is investing and advising, which is something that I've put on pause a little bit over the last few months as I've been working on the book tour. So I'm really excited to get back into that as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Well, I want to make sure everyone can, first of all get the book if they haven't gotten it yet, but more importantly, also know where to find you and follow to get updates on all of these different projects.

Fran Hauser:
Yes, definitely. So my website is FranHauser, H-A-U-S-E-R, .com, and you can get all the information about the book and where to buy the book there. My Instagram and Twitter handle is the same, it's Fran_Hauser, and of course you can always connect with me on Linkedin as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Fran. I love the book, and if there's anyone out there who hasn't read it yet, please pick it up, it's wonderful, well worth investing the time. Thank you Fran.

Fran Hauser:
Thank you Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, so Fran and I really just scratched the surface in that interview, here's a little bit more wisdom from her book. Financial Grownup tip number one; one thing that Fran talks about in The Myth of the Nice Girl is the importance of how things are presented, the tone that you use in your voice. So you can be firm, and not be a pushover, and still be nice. Think about the way that you say things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two; don't say sorry so much. Try replacing it with "Thank you." Fran points out that many women apologize of things that not only were not their fault, but also they aren't really sorry about. For example, not being able to attend an event. She would often apologize for declining an invitation, instead, she advises to simply say, "Thank you for the invitation." And say that you will not be able to attend.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you have not already, please hit that subscribe button and be in touch on Twitter, @BobbiRebell, on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook I am @BobbiRebell. And learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. And thank you to the wonderful Fran Hauser for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

When entrepreneurs Daniel Levine and Steven Pulver started their Fireside Conference in Canada 4 years ago, their ambition was so hot it burned through their budget, putting the conference in the red. 

In Dan and Steve’s money story you will learn:

-The backstory of their first Fireside Conference

-The key thing that they did not factor into their budget

-How they select who attends the Fireside conference, and how they believe that curation ties into their success

-The missing thing in the conference marketplace that they identified, and inspired them to create their own conference

-The personal connection they have to the location of the conference

-Where their funding came from at the start of the venture

-Why they were $30,000 in debt when the first conference ended

In Dan and Steve’s money lesson you will learn:

-Why they decided to stay on their original trajectory even though the conference lost money in year one. 

-What the data from the first conference showed them and how they leveraged the data for the future

-The role that social media played in their success, even though there was no cell phone reception (or use) at the conference

-How they monetized a very small audience by focusing on community curation

In Dan and Steve’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Why they allocated a significant budget to in-person events to connect with their community

-The quick realization that they could have more impact on a lower budget by changing one key thing. 

-How you can apply that to your networking and marketing, or even just your friendships and personal relationships

-Why spending more money to impress people is often not effective and can sometimes dilute the potential impact

In My Take you will learn:

-How the new hit show Succession illustrated the same point as the Fireside guys- wealthy people are not impressed by expensive stuff. Just be real with them. 

-How I implement the same strategy, hosting friends and colleagues in my home, rather than taking them out for fancy impersonal dinners

-The significance of pro-actively choosing how you fund a startup

-How self-funding allows for a less painful failure, because while you lose your money, you maintain control and avoid pressure to cut losses from outside investors

Dan, Steven and Bobbi also talk about

-Dan and Steve’s entrepreneurial venture MinuteBox.com

-The next Fireside conference in September

-The speakers at the next conference will include Jordan Harbinger and Jason Calcanis

-How to get preferential consideration for the conference

 

Episode Links

Learn more about the Fireside Conference!

 

Follow them on social media!

-twitter @firesideconf, @daniellevine

-instagram @fireside_conf

 

Learn about their 2018 speakers:

Jordan Harbinger

Jason Calcanis

 

Learn more about the show I mentioned- HBO's Succession!

---

Transcription

Daniel Levine:
We didn't have a sense of when we told people that it was going to be all you can drink, what that meant on the bottom line, and we didn't really have a sense of when you do a conference in the middle of nowhere three and half hours from the closest big city, what that means when you have to start helping to arrange transportation for people.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money but it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes my friends, the bar tab can get pretty expensive, especially when you offer it unlimited all weekend long, and that was just the beginning for entrepreneurs, Steven Pulver and Daniel Levine when they started the Fire Side Conference in Canada four years ago. The team wanted everything to be perfect for their first experience, but perfect does not come cheap. Lots of lessons and take aways here are Steven Pulver and Daniel Levine.

Bobbi Rebell:
Daniel Levine and Steven Pulver, you're financial grown ups, welcome to the podcast.

Steven Pulver:
Thanks so much for having us.

Daniel Levine:
Pleasure to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys hold the honor of being the first team that I've had on. So this is going to be cool. We'll see how it goes.

Daniel Levine:
Thank you. We're looking forward to it.

Steven Pulver:
Hopefully no screw ups but we're looking forward to it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys are going to be great. Alright you are Canadian entrepreneurs and you are the brains behind a conference that I was very impressed by when I started learning about it, The Fireside Conference. It's happening for the fourth year in September, up in Canada. You're also entrepreneurs yourselves. This is a conference for entrepreneurs, you are entrepreneurs. Your company is MinuteBox, which is cloud based, software basically for law firms to help them be compliant with the various regulations in Canada but the conference is really the focus that I want to talk about here because your money story is about.

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us what happened, this is year four. I want to hear what happened in the first year, because I think it's some that a lot of entrepreneurs and just people that have ideas about starting businesses or just managing their own finances will relate to and hopefully learn from

Steven Pulver:
For sure. It starts in 2014 when Fireside itself was born and just for your listeners to take just a 30 second overview of what Fireside is, and how it differs from a traditional conference. So Fireside at its core is an invite only retreat for entrepreneurs, founders, investors, influencers from all over the world that we invite up to a summer camp every September.

Steven Pulver:
We started our first official year in 2015. Daniel and I were looking around our community and saying there's a lot of great networking events, there's a lot of great events and things to bring the community together, but the biggest failure they all had was the inability to really bring people together on a way deeper level than just meeting in a conference hall.

Steven Pulver:
So we kind of said there's got to be a better venue that we can do a conference or an event at and we landed on this amazing summer camp where children are there all summer as a sleepover camp outside Bancroft, Ontario, Canada.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you have a personal connection, right? You have a personal connection to the camp.

Steven Pulver:
Yeah so I spent 24 years there both as a camper and staff and worked my way all the way up from counselor to head staff and eventually leadership team and helped a run a lot of the programming. So I was obviously incredibly biased. Daniel actually had attended camp Alden as well as a staff. So when we were looking at venues we were obviously both biased in knowing this was an amazing place to do this at.

Steven Pulver:
We had no video of photos of Fireside itself. When we were trying to market and spend money on ads and things like that, we literally had no real starting point. So because of that everything we were doing, we were fresh into. So we were throwing a lot of stuff at the wall, as we continue to do today, to see what would stick.

Bobbi Rebell:
Had you done any market research or anything? What was your background that made you qualified to do this?

Steven Pulver:
I think we would be completely foolish to say now that we had any form of subject matter expertise in running events, other than wanting to do something amazing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where was you funding coming from, did you have budget, how did this come together from a financial perspective?

Daniel Levine:
So in our first year, from a financial perspective, it really came together very loosely and in an unstructured way, and hopefully not to ruin the story, but that's how we found ourselves about $30,000 in debt at the end of it. We looked at pricing and we weren't looking at pricing as a factor or breakeven. We weren't looking at it as a function necessarily of our cost. We really went into this with an, "if you build it they will come" attitude and really not having pedigrees in the areas of conferences or event management. We didn't have a sense of when we told people that it was going to be all you can drink, what that really meant on the bottom line, and we didn't really have a sense of when you do a conference in the middle of nowhere three and a half hours from the closest big city, what that means when you have start helping to arrange transportation for people.

Daniel Levine:
So it really was both a combination of not having a budget, but also really just, as you put it, not having any qualifications for doing something like this that had us at the end of a really magical two and half days turn to each other and realize that we really were not in a good financial position.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you spend? Give me some of the numbers, what did you spend on the conference and where, and was your revenue that you did have?

Steven Pulver:
Back then, I should say, our only revenue source was tickets. So our tickets were, Dan what was it, $300 to $500 range?

Daniel Levine:
Yeah.

Steven Pulver:
Let's say give or take $350 to $400 on average, in terms of ticket price. That was really our main source of revenue. We had a little bit of sponsorship at the time, but when we're talking about money coming in the door, we're really looking in the $20,000 to $30,000 range or just pure revenue. Now, there's a lot of costs involved, so of course things are completely dependent on the number of people that we have enter the gates of camp. So back then we were about 75 people, now we're around 400, so obviously that has changed quite a bit, but back then, alcohol was a huge cost.

Steven Pulver:
Swag, wanting to give people, for instance, under that swag category I would put whether they'd be water bottles, or [inaudible 00:06:28], or pieces like that. Food, obviously, is a huge piece. Those were the big, big, big costs, and when Dan and I looked at this and we said, "We want to create an amazing event," we didn't have budget in mind. That certainly doesn't mean we had an unlimited budget, but we were never going to sacrifice the quality of, say, the food, or the amount of food, or the amount of alcohol, or the amount of drinks, or whatever it might be, on account of our budget in that first year.

Steven Pulver:
We didn't really know where we were going with it, but kind of both said, "We're in, or we're not." And once we made that decision to go ahead, the budget, unfortunately looking back, it was really nonexistent.

Bobbi Rebell:
So where did you get the money from, the negative $30,000? Was it borrowed, were you putting it on credit cards?

Daniel Levine:
Yeah, so that was coming from our personal capital. Steven and I, we certainly didn't have $30,000 to blow away, but we were fortunate to have some savings, and we're very thankful for the support of our significant others, who saw that big bill come in at the end of the day and say that they had faith in us to really build something fantastic. And the only reason that we were able to swallow such a hit in our first year, was that we had a long term view. There's at least one component of that long term view, if not two, that were important to informing our decisions.

Daniel Levine:
One was, we knew we wanted to go larger than 60 or 75 people, we always thought that we'd be in the 300 to 400 person range. Knowing that, we also knew that our fixed costs were high, and our variable costs were quite low. So that actually was a huge point of leverage for us to look towards in future years, knowing that if we were able to focus on growing our membership and attendee base, that would end up covering our fixed costs, and since our variable costs are quite low, it wouldn't be linear and proportional, such that a 60 person conference would see us lose a similar amount of money as we would see in a 400 person conference. We always knew that if we grew enough, in future years we would be able to cover that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So what did you do then in year two, and what is the lesson for our listeners?

Daniel Levine:
Yeah, so two key things. One was, stay on the trajectory that we were on with our original vision. So we had to have faith in the fact, and quite honestly we could look to the spreadsheets to prove it, but we had faith in the fact that if we grew from 60 or 70 to 285, which is what we were in our second year, we would exceed those fixed costs-

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is phenomenal growth, by the way, that's amazing.

Daniel Levine:
It was. And that was something that we really didn't expect, but because we made that huge investment in the first year and put on a fantastic program, what happened on the Sunday when we came back into the city and got cell phone reception again, is our emails were filled, not just with responses from attendees, but from friends and friends of attendees who saw them tweeting and Instagraming about it, and saying, "How do I get an invite? How do I get involved?" So we were able to leverage a really amazing product into a very big growth year into our second year. So that was a very large component of being able to recoup things in our second year. But the other big factor was, we need more revenue streams. Because we knew we were going to grow, we knew we could also go after revenue streams at 285 that we couldn't go after at 60 or 70 people.

Daniel Levine:
So, for example, sponsorship, that was a brand new door that opened for us, and even though 285 is, let's say relatively small in the conference business, where you might have conferences with 10,000 or 20,000 people, we could now go to major brands and major companies and say, "We have 285 highly curated people that are industry leaders, top entrepreneurs, top individuals, we are going to give you an opportunity to do very deep and impactful experiential marketing activations with them, and as a result, these brands saw a lot of value and in turn sponsorship dollars started coming in, which supplemented the revenue that we were receiving through ticket sales.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I think that's an important lesson for our listeners, that you weren't just taking a check from anyone. Once you were in year two you were able to have that history of the content that people wanted, and the experience that people wanted, and you could select and curate, as you say, the 285 people. So it wasn't just any 285 people, it was people that really had value to the potential sponsors.

Daniel Levine:
Precisely, and that's magnetized quite a bit over the years, and we've really seen an exponential growth in the inbound requests to join us. Whereas in our first year, we were going out and selecting, each of us, 30 or so people from our networks to really beg to come up and experience this with us. We're now going to receive over 4000 applications from people all over the world to be one of 400 people to come and join us this September.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well that's amazing, congratulations. I want to move from there to our everyday money tip, because that also has to do with something that you do that other people can emulate, that was at first a misstep, and then you found the right way to do it and it's working for you.

Steven Pulver:
At the start of this new year, 2018, we said we would start doing dinners. So we basically hand selected both current attendees, who are attending for the first time this September in 2018, alumni, other people in the community that we wanted to join us, and we'd have dinners, and we would invite people to nice restaurants, certainly not over the top fancy restaurants, but nice restaurants here in Toronto, and we did a few in Boston, and Chicago, and other places. And we would basically bring people together for a night of eating and drinking, and just a good time connecting people.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's expensive though.

Steven Pulver:
Yeah. So we found out very quickly that that's very expensive, and that was built into our budget. We knew from the beginning we'd spend maybe $2000 at dinner, and we had built that in that we were going to do a few of these. So we'd earmarked that and we knew we were going to do it, but after a few dinners we realized that this was getting expensive, despite us being ready for that expense, but it wasn't really us. We loved the fact that we were connecting with people and having great meals and great conversation, but at one point Daniel actually turned to me and said, "Why don't we just do a few barbecues? Do you think maybe we could do it at your house?" And I said, "Absolutely we can so that."

Steven Pulver:
Next thing you know we got the barbecue all ready and went to our favorite butcher shop and got burgers, and basically created a barbecue that I'm actually staring at in my living room right now, we're about to host a barbecue in a hour or so from now, and we said, "We can do barbecues. We can so five or six of these a month, at a cost of maybe $200 a barbecue, max, and bring amazing people together and have the flexibility to not spend a lot of money, but actually get way more bang for our buck."

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's something a lot of people should take to heart, because we sometimes get so busy trying to impress other people, and in fact it's often more impressive to bring someone to your home. Certainly it creates a different kind of bond, a more special and more personal bond, and it is more budget friendly.

Steven Pulver:
Right, and I think it really does go to our core too, right? As both individuals and as a business where we want to connect with people in this kind of way, as opposed to some hoity-toity kind of restaurant that is just fundamental not us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So it is on brand, as they say, and speaking of that, you've got conference number four this September.

Daniel Levine:
Yeah, we now have a hard cap at 400 attendees, particularly because for us community and authentic relationship is super important to us. We're going to have incredible folks like Jordan Harbinger, from The Jordan Harbinger Show, and Jason Calicanis, who is one of the most world renowned Angel investors, coming and joining us for the weekend. Disconnecting from technology up at summer camp, sitting around the fire pit, sharing stories about business and growth and leadership, and going water skiing and rock climbing while we're at it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sounds amazing. Alright, where can people find out more, if you even have any spots, or get on the wait list for next year?

Steven Pulver:
So, we have just opened up our final 50 application spots, those are now officially open for application, so there is still room available to apply, and I would encourage any of your amazing listeners to visit firesideconf, C-O-N-F, .com, as in conference. We are always there as well, you'll see a little chat bubble, you can say hi to us and ask us any questions, or you can feel free to apply and just let us know that you're coming from this podcast and you'll immediately jump to the top of the line.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you both.

Daniel Levine:
Our pleasure, thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so many lessons here. Financial grownup tip number one; let's start with the guys everyday money tip, because that hits close to home. Don't assume you have to spend a ton of money to impress wealthy and successful people. The thing is, fancy people aren't impressed with fancy. There's a scene in a new show called Succession that I've been watching, where a character is trying to impress his future father-in-law, who is very wealthy. So he spends a crazy amount of money on a watch, but when he gives it to the man as a gift, he's trying to impress him remember, the fact is he is barely acknowledged, and in fact, the very wealthy future father-in-law later gives it away without much of a thought. Watching it was pretty sad, unfortunately there is some reality to that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Rich people don't need another fancy meal. Once Steven and Daniel realized this and started hosting barbecues at their own homes, they had a much better time connecting with the people that they wanted to impress. I mean, the conference is at a camp, that's who they are. They're real, they're down to earth, and they want to connect to their people in that way. It's refreshing. Not everything has to be in a five star hotel or restaurant.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Well, the fireside conference lost about £30,000 the first year because it was self-financed. The founders remained in control and did not face pressure from outside investors. Early stage businesses that can avoid taking outside investors retain control, something Daniel and Steven seems very happy about.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you enjoyed the show, tell a friend, or share on social media. On Twitter, I am @BobbiRebell, on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook @BobbiRebell, and please subscribe if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes. Thank you to Steven and Daniel for your candor and openness about the challenges and rewards of starting such an ambitious conference. I'm looking forward to watching The Fireside Conference continue to grow. So thank you gentlemen for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Perez Hilton pioneered blogging as a profession, starting with his first $5 payday from Google Adsense. The once-bankrupt Hilton has built a multi-media business on that foundation, moving into YouTube, television and his latest venture, a guest stint at Chippendales in Vegas. 

In Perez’ money story you will learn:

-How Perez first earned money as a blogger, and the size of his first payment

-How he promoted his wesite perezhilton.com when it first started, well before social media existed

-How he realized he could make money blogging

-The big life failure that happened that led to his ability to focus on and monetize his blog

-The turning point in his career as a blogger when he was able to help his family

-What Perez tells his kids about his job

-Perez’s daily schedule and how he maintains productivity

-Why Perez wakes up at 5:51 every morning

-What was Perez’s biggest payday, and how much he has made in one day

-Why he is so excited talking about Lady Gaga!!

In Perez’s money lesson you will learn:

-The big warning he has to new business owners about the pace of growth

-Why he warns startup founders not to invest all their own money in their business when they can get investors

In Perez’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to negotiate better rates with the people that you have been doing business with for years

-How much you can reasonably expect them to discount services

-How to leverage your social media following to get discounts on products

In my take you will learn:

-Why it is important to note that Perez Hilton wakes up everyday at 5:51 am

-The significance of his regular, reliable schedule, especially as an entrepreneur and a parent

-How he is putting time management Laura Vanderkam’s strategies to work. 

-The importance of building out a brand in an intentional and focused way

-How Perez is integrating new platforms to expand his audience from his core platform

-The video on Perez’s personal youtube channel that I am personally completely fascinated by and why. 

Perez and Bobbi also talk about:

-How he has had to re-think his finances since having three kids

-Why Perez believes in diversifying financial assets, but also focuses on real estate

-The kinds of real estate Perez believes will be the best investments and why

-Where Perez is invested right now

Episode Links:

Check out Perez’s block perezhilton.com

Subscribe to Perez’ youtube channels

His personal channel The Perez Hilton

His regular content channel Perez Hilton

Here is more info about Perez’s Chippendales show in Las Vegas!

You may also be interested in Time Management expert Laura Vanderkam’s interview. You can listen to it at bobbirebell.com/podcast/lauravanderkam

 

Follow Perez!

On Twitter: https://twitter.com/PerezHilton

On Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/perezhilton

On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ThePerezHilton/

 

Listen to Perez’s podcast with Chris Booker:  http://perezhiltonpodcast.com/

Want to learn more about Perez? Check out his interview with Michael Dinich

---

Transcription

Perez Hilton:
I'll get anywhere from $25,000 - $50,000 a night for two hours just to show up and promote the club. And I remember one event it was 4th of July, I was the headliner. I decided, you know what I want to have a special guest, so my special guest was Lady Gaga billed underneath me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what, being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. That was gossip blogging pioneer Perez Hilton dishing on some of his own finances and getting very candid about how much and how little other headliners really make. Perez has talked in public pretty candidly about some of his financial let's say adventures, including declaring bankruptcy and spending several hundred thousand dollars on surrogacy for his three kids. Go to his YouTube channel The Perez Hilton to hear more about that. His gossip YouTube channel is Perez Hilton, but I wanted to know more. After all, love him or hate him the guy started making money from blogging before it was a thing. And if you look at some of the ways we use social media now, like even the doodling people do on pictures and all that stuff he was doing it way ahead of us. He's made mistakes, which we talk about, but now that he's gotten older and wiser with three kids and a team that works with him, which includes by the way his mom, and his sister Perez Hilton is all about being a financial grownup. Here is Perez Hilton.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Perez Hilton you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Perez Hilton:
Hello, I try to be. Actually I don't even try, I am. It takes work.

Bobbi Rebell:
You very much are. Oh, come on. Yeah anyone who watches you have two YouTube channels, you have your fun gossipy one and then you have your also fun personal one. And people that watch that they know you talk about your bankruptcy, you talk about spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on surrogacy and the financial implications of that. So you are definitely, you're a grownup Perez.

Perez Hilton:
Well not even that, you know last year at the beginning of 2017 when I knew I was having a third child and that was coming it was a huge push for me to completely re haul my financial life. Meaning, overtly looking at every possible way to spend less and make more. And shorter term goals are definitely to diversify, it's a key word especially given how everything changes so quickly in entertainment, and just the world. For me though, and I may have still been at this before but I'm still trying to make it happen. And I wish I would have heard this before, I wish I would have made it a priority younger, I really want to get into real estate. Like some people want to play the stock market, some people want to invest in startups, some people want to start new businesses, some people want to let their money sit in a savings account, I want to go old school and own land. Own property. Not commercial property, I specifically want to own like a duplex or a triplex or four plex because I think that, that will only go up and it will only win.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you keep your assets now? Do you own your home? Do you have some stocks? Are you diversified? Because if you do everything in real estate you're not diversified and we just heard you want to be diversified.

Perez Hilton:
Yeah, no I mean I have a retirement account and I have different thing for my kid's college. I'm making all of the smart moves but instead of going heavier in the stock market, which I was advised to ... I did not listen to that advice and I'm going to go more into real estate. If I keep most of my money in real estate I don't care. I don't mind.

Bobbi Rebell:
We talked before we started taping about the first time you were able to actually monetize blogging, because you were basically the first. You were blogging before there was social media. You were blogging you were just trying to promote it on something called Friendster, which most of my listeners probably never even heard of. When did you realize you could monetize this and what was the first memory you have of receiving money for blogging?

Perez Hilton:
Well I didn't make any money for the first year plus. It was really just a hobby. Thankfully I ended up getting fired from a job that I had during that first year of blogging, which I credit to my website becoming successful. Because as a result of getting fired during that first year I was able to collect unemployment. So I didn't have to worry about feeding myself and having enough to pay rent. Thank God that happened. Sometimes a negative really is a positive. So, when I finally started making money to pay rent ...

Bobbi Rebell:
So a lot of bloggers today they make money from ads, from affiliate links, things like that. How was the first way that you made money?

Perez Hilton:
The first way that I made money, of course Google Ad Sense, was probably less than $5 but I was like, "Wow this is something exciting."

Bobbi Rebell:
$5 for something you were doing as just a fun little side thing is money, right?

Perez Hilton:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a pivotal moment where you realized, "This is actually my ..." It's not your whole career because you do a lot more, you first of all you went to NYU, you studied acting you did a lot and you do a lot. This doesn't just come from nowhere, and I think you make it look easy but it's not as easy as you make it look. But when did you realize that this in terms of your general identity was going to be it and that there was a way to monetize this? I mean reports are you've made many millions.

Perez Hilton:
I would say that by 2007 things got to a point where I was able to and I needed to get help. And I was able to help my family by doing so. I hired my mom and my sister with me and really made it a family operation. So, I moved them from Miami to Los Angeles and they still work with me today.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And how do you think you'll explain to your kids how you earn a living? Or will it just be kind of organic as they grow up?

Perez Hilton:
Well they already understand who Perez Hilton is. They've seen me on TV many times, the many different things I've done. They've been on TV with me. Last year I did a show for the Food Network called Worst Cooks in America Celebrity Edition, which I ended up winning by the way. I was the best of the worst. They got to be part of the show and they watched it every week with me. I do a lot of talking head commentary whenever I'm on like The Talk, or The Real, or local news here in LA. My mom will always record it and make sure my kids see it. Plus I make all my YouTube videos, they're in the background hearing daddy work and seeing me work as well on my laptop on my website. So they definitely have an understanding. They know I work so hard.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well tell me about that. Do you have a schedule or do you just keep going until it gets done? How does it work?

Perez Hilton:
I just keep going until it gets done, but I wake up at 5:51 every morning. I literally start working before I even get out of bed, before I even pickup my laptop I'm able to get some work done on my phone on Instagram. It's like you have to be doing everything everywhere. And I'll work, work, work. Then I'll take my kids to school, then I'll go to gym. Then I'll come back, catch up on work, do more work. Then I'll usually have a meeting or a filming or something in the afternoon. Come back home, catch up on work, spend early evening in dad mode. Put my kids to bed after getting them their shower and all that jazz, read their nightly book. And then get more work done, catch up on emails, and then usually get to bed like 11:30 maybe. I still love what I do, 14 years later. And I'm filled with so much gratitude that I am continuing to have fun and entertain people, and get new followers through different ways. Yeah, like even in a couple of days I'm heading to Las Vegas. I'm going to be doing the Chip 'n Dale show there.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so wild.

Perez Hilton:
That's so exciting. I'm going to be the special celebrity host of Chip 'n Dales.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you remember your biggest payday? What can you tell us about it and most of all how it made you feel?

Perez Hilton:
I remember like 2006 - 2012 before the rise of the DJ, which is where Vegas is now. It's all about the big name DJ's. You used to have a ton of celebrities hosting club nights in Vegas. And they would just throw ridiculous amounts of money my way and everybody's way. Now you'll have celebrities host Vegas, but because I know the market so well now, and I have so many friends that work in nightlife they're paying for the Vanderpump Rule for a housewife or whomever, five maybe $10,000. If you're a celebrity like Drake or somebody of that stature they'll make tons of money, but TV personalities five to $10,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
So let me ask you, how much would you make in those days in Vegas? And what was it like?

Perez Hilton:
Yeah. Well it depends on the venue, and the time of year, and a whole bunch of variables but I would say I would get anywhere from $25,000 - $50,000 a night for two hours just to show up and promote the club. And I remember one event I had back in 2008 it was 4th of July weekend, and I was the headliner. I decided, you know what I want to have a special guest. So my special guest was Lady Gaga billed underneath me.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are the lessons, the business lessons that you've learned from going from making $5 from Google Ad Sense, to Vegas at $50,000 doing DJ stuff, to now where you've got this multi-media empire that you are growing and building to invest in real estate as we know it for your kids?

Perez Hilton:
One advice I would give somebody is don't grow too much too quickly, which is a big mistake that many companies make. I would also say ... and a lot of this is just my experience, my advice, it probably maybe goes against what traditional business people might say. I would also say if you start making a lot of money on your business do not invest it back into your business or invest some but not a lot. Ideally to grow you can grow with other people's money. That's the goal.

Bobbi Rebell:
No, that's something a lot of people do. They leverage other people's money. Maybe put some of your own skin in the game, but it's also important to have some money set aside personally for you.

Perez Hilton:
Absofreakinglutely. Yep.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. All right Perez, I don't want to keep you too long. Give me an everyday money tip.

Perez Hilton:
One simple thing people that you do business with regularly, maybe your pool cleaner, or trainer at the gym, or for me I get my meals delivered from this one company. So I reached out to a lot of these people I've been very loyal to for a long time and I'm like, "Can we work anything out? Can you charge me less if I promote more?" Even if you don't have a large social media following, if you've been loyal to a company for a long time and been paying them they'll probably say, "Sure we can give you five percent off, 10% off." Any savings anywhere is good.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. All right, where can we support you? You're heading to Vegas, I just watched your video today, you're packing everyone up. Tell us about that and everything else that you want us to be paying attention to.

Perez Hilton:
Well I am a busy dude, yeah I'm going to Vegas. I'll be staring in the Chip 'n Dales show at the Rio from July 26th through Labor Day Sunday. I've got two YouTube channels, The Perez Hilton for everything family and then Perez Hilton for everything pop culture. Of course my website. And then I've got a podcast, The Perez Hilton podcast with Chris Booker where we talk everything pop culture.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is an empire. Congratulations on it all. Thank you for doing this.

Perez Hilton:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Perez is a lot of fun my friends, and he kind of makes it look easy if you watch his content. But let's look at what is really going on with this business, and it is business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one, note that Perez casually mentions that he always wakes up at 5:51 in the morning, and that he does work before his kids get up. Getting up early is a common thread of successful self starter entrepreneur, in fact according to time management expert Laura Vanderkam who was a recent guest on this podcast the vast majority of successful executives wake up before 6:00 am on weekdays. So, go set your alarm clock and try it out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, I love that Perez is always trying new things, but at the same time they are things that make sense with the brand that he has created. Perez still has his blog for sure and has expanded to different vertices, but he also knows that YouTube is very important to his audience as well. And so, he is growing there. One channel that extends his traditional gossip content, but he also now wants his audience to know him as a person. And he does very candid personal videos including a strangely amazing video by the way of how he brushes his teeth and keeps them so white. Watch it, you'll find yourself watching till the end, it's mesmerizing. Silly but mesmerizing. And now he's starting the Chip 'n Dales thing in Las Vegas, so this man is fearless but it is all on brand and all designed to appeal to his audience. Perez is consistent with his content and keeps his audience engaged.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you enjoyed this show please tell a friend. The best way for us to grow and keep bringing you these great stories is by sharing. You are busy but if you have time please leave a review and hit subscribe, and keep in touch on social media. We love it when you DM us on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and on Facebook at Bobbi Rebell. And a big thanks to Perez Hilton who's having a great time in his very grownup life, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK Media Production.

Jane King caved in to pressure to buy an apartment with her first son on the way, but soon realized going against her gut created a lot of financial indigestion. Plus tips on how to make sure you get your bills paid on time. 

In Jane’s money story you will learn:

-Why Jane decided to buy real estate, against her gut instinct, right when her son was born

-The key consideration that Jane and her husband overlooked when buying property in that location

-The indication in the economic news stories she was reporting that was a red flag to Jane that they were headed for real estate disasters

-How falling interest rates actually created a challenge for Jane and her family

-Why Jane had to move out of the first property

In Jane’s money lesson you will learn:

-How not trusting your gut can cost you a lot of money

-How to apply that theory not just to real estate but also to buying a stock any decision

-Our instincts are often stronger than we think

In Jane’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Why Jane does all of her bill paying on Saturday

-How that creates a checks and balances system for her

-How we can apply this kind of system to our own lives

In My Take you will learn

-The importance of getting out of big mistakes before they become even worse, even if it is expensive

-How Jane leveraged a layoff into a successful business venture

We also talk about:

-How Jane took a business that was folding at her employer, and created her own entrepreneurial venture, LilaMax media. 

-Jane’s podcast about kids and money “KaChing with Jane King”

-About my side-hustle filling in for Jane doing local news updates  live from the Nasdaq MarketSite that are seen all over the United States

Episode Links

Learn more about Jane King and LilaMax media at lilamaxmedia.com

Learn more about Jane’s podcast KaChing with Jane King at https://kachingpodcast.com/

 

Follow Jane!

Twitter https://twitter.com/MarketJane

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/marketjane/

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/jane.king.560

---

Transcription

Jane King:
I wish I would have just trust my instinct at the time because I feel like I knew, gut, what was going on with the housing market. I don't think I understood just how deep the problems were.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be A Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this!

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone! Today's episode features a friend I've known for more than a decade and learned a lot from and I know that you will as well. Jane King is a familiar face to so many of you because she's been anchoring local news business updates for years. First, on CNN, then on Bloomberg, and now with her entrepreneurial venture, LilaMax Media. Named after her two kids, Lila and Max.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even though her official money story has to do with a real estate flop, pay close attention to the extra story she casually slips in about launching her content syndication company, LilaMax. Previously referred to, which continues to grow at a time when so many bigger content companies are struggling. She makes it seems like no big deal, but I was there, and this Mompreneur is holing her own against some heavy competition. Here is Jane King.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jane King! You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jane King:
Great to be here, Bobbi, and I really loved hearing your podcast over the weekend. It's great advice out there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, thank you, and I love your podcast, “KaChing With Jane King” and all of your entrepreneurial ventures. Tell us a little bit about that.

Jane King:
Well, right now I run a company called LilaMax Media. I'll just give you a little history of how this came to be. So, I worked for CNN. I worked for Bloomberg and then the division that I worked for at Bloomberg, in 2013, they decided to shut that down at the end of the year. So, they gave us about a six weeks notice and another guy on my time and I decided just to take it on. We started this company LilaMax Media.

Jane King:
We do broadcast of the NASDAQ Monday through Friday for local TV stations around the country and try to keep up everybody on this very interesting business news atmosphere that we have lately. Oh, my goodness!

Bobbi Rebell:
And, many of my listeners, I'm sure see you on their local morning news, so we love that.

Jane King:
Right. And, I have some great fill ins, like you!

Bobbi Rebell:
I do.

Jane King:
Good help.

Bobbi Rebell:
I do help you out. I love doing it. But, let's talk about your money story, because it has to do with something near and dear to my heart, because I have had a lot of financial security come my way because of real estate investments. You made a big real estate purchase. We were actually all pregnant together, us and a bunch of friends.

Jane King:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
We had our babies all at the same time back in 2007 and we all bought real estate at that time. But, your story is a little bit different from the standard run of the mill story. Tell us what happened.

Jane King:
Well, I got caught up in that whole disaster of what we lived in 2008 and 2009. So, I was working as a financial reporter at the time and I just had this feeling that the housing market was over valued. I, you know, I had even had discussions with people. I'm like, come on, the average house is $250,000. But, the average American is only making like 45 and nothing just added up. So, I just ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, so logically, you went to buy a house. A home.

Jane King:
Well, so here's how this all came about. So, we had a friend who was moving and he said “Hey, how would you like to buy our apartment?” And, I was like “Oh, I really don't want to do that.” He was like “Oh, we don't have to pay commissions.” I was pregnant at the time as you mentioned. I thought “Well, gosh, it wouldn't be good for the child to have a house instead of a rental, for some reason. Even though, it kind of makes no sense.” Our accountant weighed in. Said the tax write offs were great so, we bought a home. Let's see. We closed on that in March or May of 2007, and ...

Bobbi Rebell:
So, right before Max was born?

Jane King:
Right before Max was born and at almost the exact peak of the housing market. When we closed on the home, I think they were around, just under seven percent. Like, six and a half or six point seven.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which, sounds really high right now.

Jane King:
Sounds high right now, but this was 2007. They went all the way down to three something and we just could not take advantage of that because the home values just ... the value of the appraisals were coming in too low. So ...

Bobbi Rebell:
So, your equity was not high enough to refinance?

Jane King:
That's right. So, third times a charm. Finally got that done, and of course we paid all the fees and everything in the process. But ...

Bobbi Rebell:
So, so much for saving so much on the commission.

Jane King:
So much for saving on the commission. You know, I don't know. You know, it was a co-op. We had trouble selling it because the co-op board was just ... that's another thing. I would never buy in a co-op again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, let's go back to the story. So, okay, you get into the apartment. First of all, you wanted to refinance just because the rates were going lower, right?

Jane King:
Oh yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jane King:
We did, but it was, you know, a couple thousand dollars a month difference.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh wow. So, your payments were high, number one. So, number two, then you're being rejected from refinancing because your equity relative to the value of the home was not a good enough ratio.

Jane King:
That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:
And then, number three, why did you want to sell? Why not, once you were able to refinance, why not just hang there?

Jane King:
Well, because it's a co-op and you can't rent it out for more than two years, so another one of those co-op rules that you have to deal with in New York City. So, we could only rent it out for two years and then we had to finally sell it. Because, we had moved to a different neighborhood and we weren't really ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so why did you move then, I guess is the question. Because, you bought it in 2007, why not just live there?

Jane King:
Two things. So, one was the apartment was up by Columbia University and they were taking over the building where my husband had a business. So, we needed to find a new location for the business, and the timing of that was right at the time when my son was entering Kindergarten and the schools in that area, of course, I was pregnant at the time. I didn't even think about to ask about the schools, but the schools in that area were not good schools. So, we moved to a better district where the schools were better. My husband set up a business and, you know in the end, everything's better. But, it's just I don't know. I wish I would have just trust my instinct at the time because I feel like I knew, gut, what was going on with the housing market. I don't think I understood just how deep the problems were, but you just got to trust your gut. We know more than we think we do.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from your story?

Jane King:
Well, I would think that if you're somewhat informed about finances, trust your gut. Don't let somebody else talk you into something. Whether, it's buying an apartment or buying a stock or buying something else, you know, whatever. I would just trust your gut and really think about it, because I do think we know more instinctively than we think we do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your every day money tip. Because, this is very basic and yet, sort of brilliant because it probably works. I mean, if it does work for you, I think it would work for a lot of our listeners.

Jane King:
Well, it's so easy. Anybody can do this. I pay all my bills on Saturday morning. It helps me keep all of my accounts in check. I know what the balances are. Nothing is ever paid late. So, I don't have any of the late fees or anything like that. I just set them down. It's part of my morning. My Saturday morning routine along with doing the laundry and doing the dishes, its I sit down and pay the bills. And, it's so easy and I think it's a great tip and anybody can do it. You can start this Saturday!

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes! Or, it can be any day of the week. The point is that you have an appointment with yourself to focus on your finances.

Jane King:
That's right. Saturday morning works well for me. Whatever day happens to work with you is good. It's just I'm a creature of routine and I find that it helps me lead a more organized life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. Alright, tell us more about what's going on with your podcast KaChing.

Jane King:
Okay. KaChing with Jane King. It's all about kids and money. It really kind of comes from the financial crisis, because I felt like people were doing irresponsible things because they didn't know. They didn't know that housing doesn't go up forever or that you can't spend more than you earn. You know, things like this, so I really decry the lack of financial education in our schools and in our society. So, I started this little podcast and we have some great guests on there. Authors, and people who come and they talk about, you know, just helping to raise kids so they're financially responsible. KaChing with Jane King.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright everyone. Check it out. Thank you so much Jane, you're the best!

Jane King:
Thank you Bobbi! Great to see you!

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, there's a lot to take from Jane's story. The first thing though, that strikes me is this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: If you make a real estate mistake. Admit it and get out. Jane did that right. Holding on to something you bought. Just because you bought it, is not going to fix the problem. And yes, you could lose money, but holding on, you could lose even more money. You don't know. So, staying put is just going to add to the pain. When we drill down the key problem with the apartment, was that the schools weren't a fit for Jane's kids. The other issue was that her husband's business was losing its lease. So, by paying the price, and it was expensive, it was painful for her. But, admitting the mistake, her family was able to move to one of, if not, the best public school districts in the entire city. Her husband set up a new business, in a hot neighborhood, with great clientele, and they moved on and they prospered. Digging in their heels and hoping things would just get better would have been a mistake.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's talk about Jane's business, LilaMax Media, which produces content primarily from the NASDAQ market site. So, this is the bonus story that I mentioned at the top. Her previous employer, Bloomberg, was shutting down that line of business. She and her partner, Bob Morris, figured out a way to make the economics work with lower overhead as a smaller company. So, instead of being out of work, Jane actually became the co-founder of a business that is going strong more than four years later.

Bobbi Rebell:
She took a terrible situation and made it into an opportunity of a lifetime and yes, you can see me filling in for Jane, so DM me and say “hi” if you see me on your local news in the early hours of the morning. If you have not already hit that subscribe button, so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and be in touch. On Twitter, I am @BobbiRebell. On Instagram @BobbiRebell1. On Facebook @BobbiRebell and as I said, DM me. I love hearing your feedback on the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jane had to make some very Grownup decisions as a consequence of that against the gut real estate decision, but she did it. And, it's a great lesson. Trust your gut, and if you find yourself having made the wrong decision, get the heck out. So, thanks Jane for helping us get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Announcer:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.