When Brandless Co-Founder and CEO Tina Sharkey turned 30, she  didn’t want a birthday party- she just wanted the cake. Specifically a photograph of a walking birthday cake with legs that was by artist Laurie Simmons. Little did she know the significant role that work would play in her life. 

In Tina’s money story you will learn: 

-How Tina was able to re-direct her mom's budget for a birthday party to a work of art she had been eyeing

-Why the art meant so much to Tina

-The reason art is both a passion and an investment for Tina

-How she applies her art-buying philosophy to her entrepreneurial ventures

-What inspired Tina to start collecting art as a teenager

-How the art now has multi-generational significance

In Tina’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of commemorating milestones in life

-Creative ways to marking important moments including crowdsourcing

-Why she believes investing in significant items will have long term impact

In Tina’s money tip you will learn:

-Her grandmothers strategy for getting discounts, when things are not on sale

-The specific things tina’s grandmother would say

-Tina’s philosophy of never being afraid to ask

-How to get online discounts, even when you are in a store

-The new way Brandless is offering free credits to it’s consumers

In my take you will learn:

-Techniques to re-direct sincere, well intentioned gifts that miss the mark just like Tina did

-What to do if you are giving a gift and don’t know what to get someone

-The value of giving a memorable gift that will hold the test of time

-Why we should re-think the value of the brands we buy

EPISODE LINKS:

Learn more about Brandless on their website: Brandless.com

Follow Tina and Brandless!

Instagram: @tinasharkey @brandlesslife

Twitter @Tinasharkey @brandless

Facebook: Tina Sharkey  Brandlesslife

 

Here is a link to the fabulous birthday cake photo Tina bought!

Learn more about Laurie Simmons http://www.lauriesimmons.net/

As Tina mentioned, her art hangs at museums including Moma 

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
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Tina Sharkey:
That piece of art has since appreciated tremendously in value, probably 100 times, in fact, I even found out that that photograph is now hanging in MoMA. All the art that I've ever bought have been appreciated tremendously in value, and I've only bought things that I thought were real investment pieces.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Brandless CEO Tina Sharkey talking about a piece of art that has been very meaningful in her life and not just because its financial value has literally skyrocketed as in it's in museums, people. But first some quick housekeeping notes before we get to Tina's interview. First, welcome if you're joining us for the first time, and welcome back if you are returning. If you enjoy this show, please share with someone in your life that you think would also enjoy the podcast. For those of you who have spotted our video promos, want to win a custom one? Pretty easy. We are having a little experimental competition from now until July 1st, if you see them, share them on social media, share on Facebook, retweet, repost, all that good stuff. The winner of the competition will get a free custom video that could be for your business, for yourself. We're going to look at who is the most active in sharing those videos.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, this a very special episode, we are at episode 50, time flies. I'm so excited about this guest for this milestone show. Tina Sharkey, she heads up one of the most buzzed about brands out there, Brandless. So named because they take out what they call the brand tax sale, so sell everything for just $3. $3, you heard me right, they're pulling it off major retail disruption happening. Not such a surprise though, when you hear a little bit about their co-founder and CEO Tine Sharkey. She also co-founded the women's media site, iVillage. She headed up BabyCenter, so much more. Here is Tina Sharkey.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Tina Sharkey, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Tina Sharkey:
I'm so psyched to be here. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the head of one of my favorite new companies, Brandless named. You have so many accolades. Ad Age startup of the year, Fast Company Most Innovative Company of the Year, I mean, we could basically spend the whole podcast talking about how loved your new company is. Tell us a little bit about what makes Brandless so special.

Tina Sharkey:
I think it probably, just starting with the name. I think the name definitely catches people off guard because they think "Wait, are you anti-brand? Are you not a brand?" I'm like "Wait a second, we are unapologetically a brand." We're just reimagining what it means to be one, one that's built in total collaboration with the community that we serve. One that its core belief system is about scaling kindness. One that's all about truce and trust and transparency, and most importantly, we're hoping people will live more and brand less. At Brandless, everything that we make at Brandless.com is non-GMO food, mostly organic, vegan, gluten free, clean beauty, EPA Safer Choice certified cleaning. Everything that we sell at Brandless is $3, even in our first 10 months of life, we feel like we're really making a dent in democratizing access to better stuff at fair prices, and we live by the belief system that who says better needs to cost more? We want to make better everything for everyone. That's what we do at Brandless.com, and we're having a great time doing it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I can't believe it's only been 10 months, I feel like it's already changed our culture so much. All right. Speaking of culture, art, let's talk about art, because that has to do with your money story.

Tina Sharkey:
It does. I am not an artist, but I definitely see the world in pictures. There's an expression in French called [foreign language 00:04:37], and [foreign language 00:04:39] means struck by lightning, but the French interpretation of that is like love at first sight. When you say to someone in French, like "I had a [foreign language 00:04:47]," it means you feel in love with someone at first sight. That's how I've always admired art, and loved art, and found art, was that, I admire a lot of art, but there's times when it's like a [foreign language 00:04:58], where I feel like "Oh my goodness, that is like needs to be in my life." Because, at the end of the day, we don't ever really own art, you just take care of it while you get to have it, because it should withstand the test of time. I've been collecting art with every saved penny, nickel and dime since I'm a teenager.

Bobbi Rebell:
You wanted to share the story of your first big piece of art, which you got because you were actually, your mom was going to throw a party for you, tell us the story.

Tina Sharkey:
Yeah, yeah. When I was turning 30, my mom wanted to make a special party for me. I said "You know what, mom? That's so kind and generous of you. I love that. But what I really want is I have my eye on this piece of art, and there's no way I can afford it. If you wouldn't mind, maybe we could just do a small like family dinner or something, whatever budget that you were going to spend on the party, if you would help me towards this piece of art, then it would be something that I could have forever." It was actually a photograph of a walking birthday cake, it's like that giant, giant birthday cake on legs, by the artist Laurie Simmons. It's like a birthday present, because I'll have my birthday every day by looking at this photograph.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my gosh. I love it.

Tina Sharkey:
That was many years ago. That piece of art has since probably 100 times in value. In fact, I even found out that that photograph is now hanging in MoMA.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. It's something that you love, and it ended up being an investment as well.

Tina Sharkey:
Yes. All the art that I've ever bought, not that I've sold any. Actually, that's not true, I think I've sold two pieces. But all the art that I've ever bought have been appreciated tremendously in value. I've only bought things that I thought were real investment pieces.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you approach art as an investment first or purely from love? Or do they naturally go hand-in-hand with you?

Tina Sharkey:
I think it's that [foreign language 00:06:51]. It's like first it's about love, and really, really feeling like "Oh my goodness. I can't sleep." Like art you don't buy like shoes or clothes, it's not something you just make an instant decision on, it's something that's considered, because you have to live with it for the rest of your life, or you know, that's the idea. When I first see it, and then I think about it, I think about how I would live with it, how would it be part of my own family legacy, my own family history. That particular one, the story is even deeper in that my son was late in his verbal skills, he was sort of a running toddler before he was really forming sentences. But the only two words that he had were happy birthday.

Tina Sharkey:
Happy birthday meant everything at that time. This photograph has so much meaning to me, because it was a picture of a birthday cake. Charlie was saying happy birthday all the time, and my mom gave me the money that she was going to spend on my birthday party, and I put this photograph in my will to give to my son, because it always reminded me that his first two words were happy birthday.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for the listeners. How can they apply this to their own lives?

Tina Sharkey:
I think the way to apply to your own life, not everybody loves art, not everybody wants to invest in art, not everybody has the home, or the walls, or wants to be in that way, but thinking about when there is a milestone in your life that you want commemorate, how can you use that milestone to really do something that either is an experience, or something that you can both love and express your joy, but also have something that can withstand the test of time. Not just be like if you're going to have that great bottle of champagne or whatever it is. Do you really want that or would you like something that you can have forever, for a longer period of time? Thinking about milestones and passion, but also investments and time, because those things can withstand the test of time.

Tina Sharkey:
Taking that longer term view and commemorating those milestones with savings, or with opportunities, or with crowdsourcing a gift rather than having everybody get you something small, maybe you put it in a pool together to invest in something that's really going to be something that you're going to have for a long, long time to come.

Bobbi Rebell:
What a great idea. You also have a great idea that I totally buy into for your money tip that you're going to share.

Tina Sharkey:
This is great. My grandmother, we called her the goddess of goodness, and she was seriously the nicest person you ever met in your whole life. But, she did not believe in paying retail. Wherever she went, it didn't matter whether it was the finest boutique on Madison Avenue, or TJ Maxx, or Target, she would always say "Is this in line for reduction?" I swear to you, nine out of 10 times, she would always get like a 10% discount, or they said "Oh, we have a sale coming up, why don't we'll give you the sale price now." Or "We'll let you know when this goes on sale." Or "You know what? We're happy to get that, given that you're buying two things, we'll give you the second one at a discount."

Tina Sharkey:
The money tip there is never be afraid to ask. There is no harm in asking. Likely, there is a discount to be had. One of the tips that my grandmother didn't know that I now use, which is very much in line with that, is that many physical retail stores also have catalogs or also have websites. Often, when you sign up at their websites, they'll say "If you sign up and give us your email address, we'll give you 10% off," or something like that. You can say to them in the retail store "Do you offer that discount upon signing up for your email on your website?" If they say yes, then you can often say "Would you mind applying that discount if I do that here, right now?" They often will give you that right there at the retail store.

Bobbi Rebell:
So smart. Another way to save money is something happening at Brandless right now. You have exciting stuff coming up, tell us.

Tina Sharkey:
We do. We do. Just less than a year into our life, we are just recently rolling out our referral program. If you have an account on Brandless, which costs nothing to set up, and you share Brandless with friends and the discrete code that you can get in your account page, you can give a friend a $6-credit towards building their Brandless box. When they use it, you get a $6-credit to building your next Brandless box. That referral, when you think about all the people in your network, and the fact that everyone deserves to have better and everyone deserves to have better fair prices, you can give them a running start, and for every friend that uses it, that gives you more Brandless dollars to use towards your Brandless box.

Bobbi Rebell:
Basically, free money. Thank you, Tina. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you and of course about Brandless.com, but also you.

Tina Sharkey:
If you want to find out about me, you can follow me on Twitter @TinaSharkey, you can follow me on Instagram @tinasharkey, you can follow me on Facebook, but I would say the most important thing, because it's not about me, is really go to Brandless.com and tell us about you, join our communities at Brandless on Facebook, join our community and follow us @Brandlesslife on Instagram, because it's not about us, it's really about you, and we want to highlight and spotlight and share the incredible stories of the awesome people in our community. If you have recipes you want to share, if you have stories you want to share, if there's a favorite Brandless product that you love, or if there's a product you'd like to see that you think should be Brandless, let us know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great. I cannot recommend the website highly enough, it's very interactive, there's so much great content there. You will end up enjoying yourself spending lots of time there, and time well spent. Thank you so much, Tina Sharkey, this has been wonderful.

Tina Sharkey:
Thanks, Bobbi, have the best day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, friends. That interview let me feeling pretty empowered as a consumer, and excited about the changes happening in the retail landscape. But here's my take on what Tina had to say about her experiences. Financial Grownup tip number one, we all have so many well-intentioned gifts, they're the things we just don't want, the gift-giver was really sincere, and we don't want to return them, or we give them for of course a lot of reasons, mainly you just feel bad about it, if you feel ungrateful, but you don't want it, and then it sits in your house forever. The truth is, when I give a gift, and I think when most people give gifts, they want it to be something that the receiver really wants. We don't want to miss the mark.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes, it pays to be a little bit creative. This is just one idea, it can be tricky, but something to think about. One of my favorite presents ever is a very special Judith Ripka ring that my husband got for me when we were first dating. He was the one that picked it out, he went to the store, he made the choice, it was on him. However, that was after one of my friends discretely let him know the kinds of things that I would really like. He had some guidance. Because of that, he was able to get something that I just absolutely love and it's just perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tina's mom was going to spend a whole lot of money on a party that frankly Tina just wasn't that into, what a waste of money that would've been. Thankfully, Tina spoke up. In the end, she was able to get a piece of art that she loved. It reminds her of her mother, it reminds her of that birthday, it has wonderful associations, it even is multi-generational now because of the way that her son has interacted with it. Even though she doesn't plan to sell it, the reality is she could, and she says it's gone up maybe 100 times in value. It was also a good investment. Of course, had she had the party, the money would've gone poof for something, again, she didn't really want.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Rethink how much you're paying just to buy brand names. Tina of course does have an interest in pointing this out, it is totally true, and we're talking about that many of us mindlessly buy brand names. Think of things like medication where we have reservations about buying the generic version, which by law, literally has to have the same ingredients, and yet we, myself included, find ourselves often paying up for brand names, especially everyday household goods. We love our brands. But, just like Tina redirected her birthday party money, maybe think about it this way, if you redirect the money that you would save by avoiding paying the brand tax, and add that all up, think about what you could now afford. Just a reminder, I will always tell you if I have any affiliation, any ties to a company. I have no financial affiliation or ties to Brandless, I'm just a fan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, sticking to the birthday theme, I feel like we're celebrating a birthday here, the show turning 50 episodes. I can't begin to thank all of you for your support. Time goes so fast. Anyway, to learn more about the show, go to BobbiRebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. You can also sign up for our newsletter, we don't send it out very often. I believe there's just too much email out there, so I try to be careful with it. But when we do send it, we make it meaningful. Hopefully you believe it's worth your time and enjoy it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Continue to keep in touch. I am on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, you can also DM me there, feedback, suggestions for the show, all that good stuff. On Facebook, my page is Bobbi Rebell. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate and review on Apple Podcast. Tina Sharkey is a total boss. I don't know about you, but I feel like I'm going to see little legs behind birthday cakes for a little while. Imagining it, I can't get the image out of my head. She emailed me a copy of the photo, so I'm going to try to paste that into the show notes. I don't know if it'll work, but I'm going to try ... I think it'll work. I'm going to try. You will get a kick out of the picture, if not, I'll certainly find a way to send a link so that you guys can see the image that she is talking about. Thank you, Tina Sharkey from Brandless for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Time management expert Laura Vanderkam on how she and her husband decided to pay it forward to free up time to create available time for career and business growth.  Plus behind the scenes info on how she wrote her latest bestseller “Off The Clock” and a sneak peak at her next project. 

In Laura’s money story you will learn:

-Why it has taken Laura so long to figure out the right childcare setup

-How she balances being a frugal person with the reality of her childcare needs

-The problems that emerged as her speaking and writing career began to gain more traction

-How working from home made her childcare issues more complicated

-The specific things she changed when she hired a new nanny

-Why she chose a certain schedule and the specific benefits that provided

-Specific examples of work situations where her new childcare set up allowed her to earn more money

 

In Laura’s money lesson you will learn:

-The reason Laura considers childcare an investment in your earning potential, even if you pay for it when you aren’t technically working

-The importance of going to what she called the “extra stuff’ like networking events and conferences

-Why you should sometimes pay for an extra half an hour of childcare, and what to do with that time

-The relevance of Serena Williams to the conversation and what we can learn from her recent experience missing a major milestone in her child’s life. 

In Laura’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Why handwritten notes are important in business

-How Laura has used them to increase her connection with friends and business associates

-How Laura uses that habit to connect on a personal level with her readers and fans. 

 

In My Take you will learn:

-How to use money to solve productivity challenges

-A specific way Harry Potter author JK Rowling used this strategy

-Apps and other options that can help you execute the same strategy as JK Rowling

-Why some people are late all the time

-How to not be late

We also talk about:

Laura’s new book “Off The Clock” and how she conducted the exclusive research

The importance of time perception

Laura’s Ted Talk and how we can integrate those lessons into time choices

Laura’s podcast with Sarah Hart  Unger “Best of Both Worlds” 

Her next project Juliet’s school of possibility which is a fable about Time Management

Episode Links

Learn more about Laura at her website LauraVanderkam.com

Check out her podcast “Best of Both Worlds” 

Get Laura’s book “Off The Clock!”

 

Follow Laura!

Twitter @lvanderkam

Facebook LauraVanderkamAuthor

Instagram lvanderkam

LinkedIn Laura Vanderkam

 

 

Apps for last minute discount hotels

hoteltonight.com

OneNight.com

Hotelquickly.com

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Laura Vanderkam:
We had a lot of snow. We could see that this huge snow system was coming into Pennsylvania. My client out in Michigan who they have this big event booked around me said, "Well, could you come out early?" The idea of being a working mom of four kids who could like suddenly go 24 hours earlier to an event overnight even though my husband was also out of town, I could do it. I could just say yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of how to be a financial grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So that was time management expert and prolific writer, Laura Vanderkam. Her latest book is Off The Clock, which we're going to talk about. A special welcome to our new listeners and, of course, returning ones. As you guys know, we keep it short because I'm a big believer in delivering value for your time. You can always earn more money but time is priceless and we appreciate the time that you spend with us. So we aim for about 15 minutes but you can stack a few episodes together. We do three a week. So make it work for your life. Hit subscribe, put your settings to automatically download, so you're going to have each episode without having to do any work. Go for the easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about time management. So interesting behind the scenes fact ... financial grownup fact here. I came very prepared for this interview with Laura Vanderkam. I was ready to be super efficient and respectful of her time but, in the true spirit of her latest book, Off The Clock, she was not in a hurry at all and, in fact, she said she had all the time in the world. How does she do that? Listen to the interview and then make the time to read her book. The time spent will literally pay for itself. Here is Off The Clock author, Laura Vanderkam.

Bobbi Rebell:
Laura Vanderkam, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Laura Vanderkam:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your latest book. It's called, Off The Clock, Feel Less Busy While Getting More Done. I can't wait to see what your next book's going to be. Maybe I'll get a teaser out of you. What are you working on?

Laura Vanderkam:
Actually, my next book will be out in March 2019, and it's a time management staple, it's called, Juliet's School of Possibility. So, yeah, there you go.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.

Laura Vanderkam:
The commercial for the next one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, absolutely. But, in the meantime, once we finish all of your books, we also can listen to your podcast, Best of Both Worlds, which is with Sarah Hart Unger, and that's also one of my new obsessions.

Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah, we really do believe that work and family can work together, that people can succeed at both and love both. And so, that's what the podcast covers.

Bobbi Rebell:
And one thing that you guys discuss a lot beyond just time management, but time management as it pertains to kids and getting work done, and that brings us to your money story.

Laura Vanderkam:
Like many parents, it has taken me a long time to sort of figure out what the right childcare setup truly is. And, being a kind of frugal person, I didn't want to spend all that much. So it was always trying to get by on less than I probably needed for me and my husband, and you know, he travels and works long hours, and I was certainly starting to as my speaking career was starting to grow. And so, you know, it was figuring out, well, what kind of childcare do I need? And I'd always spend, you know, normal work hours, maybe eight to five. I mean, I worked from home, certainly I should be able to do that. But the problem is, we need like overnight coverage and we wouldn't have it because people would have other plans cause, hey, we're leaving at five. They'd have other things they were doing in the evening. You know, it was just difficult to make it work.

Laura Vanderkam:
So, when we were hiring a new nanny about two years ago, we decided that, well, we truly do need more hours. Let's go ahead and make the investment in doing it. And so, we hired somebody who's initial schedule was to work eight to eight, Monday through Thursday. And the upside of doing eight to eight, it's only 48 hours, right? So it's not excessive.

Bobbi Rebell:
So were you cutting out Fridays?

Laura Vanderkam:
Well, we had ... at the time there was another person working on Fridays for part-time. You know, that was the idea. It was like, you're going to have 60 hours of care, split it among two people because you don't burn one person out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, then, you also have a backup, right?

Laura Vanderkam:
We do have a backup. Right. Yeah. So you have one full-time, one part-time. So the upside of having the evenings, I could go to networking events, like even if my husband was working late. Or, if I needed to be somewhere, I wasn't racing back and apologizing for being late. We had the evening covered. We had an extra driver for school stuff, for activities.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cause you have four kids by the way.

Laura Vanderkam:
Cause I have four small children. But the real upside has turned out to be that, when you hire someone to work eight to eight, they tend not to book stuff in the evening. So then, arranging for them to stay overnight, and we also hired somebody who was willing to do that. It was basically, pay me overtime I'll do it. Meant that there wasn't always this scrambling thing because it was relatively easy to just get that extra hours in there. And so, yes, it's expensive to have a lot of childcare and to have the availability of overnight coverage, you know, paying overtime for that. But, you know, I really see moments where it paid off.

Laura Vanderkam:
This spring, for instance, I was traveling a lot. I mean, I was giving one or two speeches a week that required travel, we had a lot of snow. One day in early March we could see that this huge snow system was coming into Pennsylvania. My client out in Michigan, who, you know, they have this big event booked around me, said, "Well, could you come out early?" You know, the idea of being a working mom of four kids who could like suddenly go 24 hours earlier to an event overnight even though my husband was also out of town, I could do it. Like I could just say yes. And that's what it has been enabling me to get like bigger ticket speaking jobs, ones that are paying more than I certainly would've imagined I could've gotten five, six years ago. And I think it's because I feel like I know I can say yes.

Laura Vanderkam:
But, you know, it's really an investment in your earning potential. And, if you're always trying to get by on less childcare than you need, then you won't say yes to the extra stuff. You won't go to that networking opportunity. You won't go to that conference. You won't maybe stay late that one night when you know your boss is going to see it and really remember it because you're trying to race out. And, over the longterm, those things really do add up. So I really like to think of childcare more as an investment than an expense. And, if you can get your head around that idea, I think you'll really start feeling like a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners? How can they apply it to their lives?

Laura Vanderkam:
Well, I think, take an honest assessment of what amount of childcare you have and, if possibly increasing that by a little bit would make your life a lot easier, less stressful, or enable you to pursue professional opportunities that you haven't so far. So it could be maybe an investment in life satisfaction. Maybe pay the person for an extra half hour after you get home, so you don't immediately have to race into serving everyone, making dinner, while you also have kids jumping on you cause they haven't seen you all day. Maybe that person could start dinner while you deal with the kids, right, and have some time with them.

Laura Vanderkam:
Or maybe it's just that, you know, occasionally you'd like to get stuff done a little bit later instead of racing out to make a 5 p.m. daycare pickup. Maybe you can arrange for an evening sitter just like one day a week, right? And that person covers maybe five to eight, and you can get stuff done when the office is quiet, or people see you be there late, or you go to networking events. And, you know, then you've made this investment and it will probably pay off over time.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love that you point out those intangible things, like going to a networking event because sometimes people view that as social, but it's social, but it's really also an investment in your career to be out there with your peers. I know Serena Williams recently missed a big milestone because she was training and it can happen to any mom, no matter what. So, you can't let those hold you back from doing things that might benefit your career.

Laura Vanderkam:
SO I think this idea like rearranging your whole life to not miss anything, it's never going to happen. And, if you have more than one kid, you'll miss some stuff cause you're at the other kids stuff. And, you know, people adjust, they grow up, they learn the universe does not revolve them. It's all good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah, you know. So, it's worth doing a little bit extra sometimes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. And there are other ways to bond with people outside of your family, bond with people regarding work in your professional endeavors, and that brings us to your everyday money tip, which is just genius, and I got to experience myself.

Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah. Well, this doesn't seem like a money tip but it's in line with the idea of networking and building your network, and getting to know people, and establishing these relationships, which is, send handwritten notes. This doesn't seem like a money tip but I can tell you that people are far more inclined to like you when it seems that you have bothered to establish, like put a little effort into establishing a connection with them. It's also memorable because most people don't do it.

Laura Vanderkam:
So, when I sent you my book, I included a handwritten note thanking you for your interest in it, and for being willing to take your valuable time to read it. I had a thing going on my website that I was asking people to pre-order Off The Clock, and what people did, they gave me their mailing address so I could send them a signed bookplate that they could stick in the cover when it showed up from whatever online retailer that they pre-ordered it through. You know, I'm mailing them anyway, why not send them a handwritten note? So I sent a handwritten thank you note to everybody who pre-ordered and gave me their address. And this is, you know, a lot.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you made the time because it was important to you.

Laura Vanderkam:
Because it was important. So I kept reminding myself, as I was doing it ... my hand was cramping up. I'm like, you should be so grateful that these people are willing to spend money on a product of yours sight unseen. Those are your big fans you want to connect with them, and I do want to connect with them.

Bobbi Rebell:
I just want to take another minute to talk a little bit about Off The Clock. As we mentioned, I did read it on vacation. It was great. You talk about people expand time. That was one of my favorite themes in the book. Tell us more about that theory and how people can apply it to their lives, cause that to me was the most important takeaway from this book.

Laura Vanderkam:
So, for Off The Clock, I had 900 people with full-time jobs and families track their time for a day, and then I asked them questions about how they felt about their time. So I could give people scores based on their time perception. Like did they have high time perception scores? They felt time was abundant. Or low time perception scores. They felt time was scarce, stressful, all that stuff. Compare the schedules with people who felt like they had a lot of time, people who felt they had no time.

Laura Vanderkam:
People who felt like they had the most time also spent the most time actively engaged with family and friends. So they spent the leisure time that they did have nurturing their relationships, whereas people who had the lowest time perceptions scores tended to spend their time watching TV or on social media. You know, it's not that one group had more leisure time than the other. Everyone was busy. Everyone had full-time jobs, families, but people choose to spend the time that they do have discretionary choices over in different ways. And, apparently, spending time with family and friends makes us feel very off the clock.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. And that's, by the way, we didn't mention your Ted Talk, which is amazing. One of the things that you point out in your Ted Talk is that, instead of just fast forwarding through commercials to save time when watching TV, you could just watch less TV. So it's pretty straight forward.

Laura Vanderkam:
The problem with writing that time management, I've seen all these articles over the years of like how to find an extra hour in the day by shaving bits of time off every day activities, and stuff like Taebo, or forward through the commercials. Save eight minutes every half hour over two hours of watching TV, you find 32 minutes to exercise. Like, come on. You're watching TV for two hours, you already had 32 minutes to exercise. Let's not fool ourselves.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You called us all out. Tell us where people can find out more about you and all of your different ventures, podcasts, Ted Talk, books, newsletter, all of it.

Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah, come visit my website, lauravanderekam.com. That's just my name. You can learn more about my books including Off The Clock and the podcast, Best of Both Worlds. We'd love to have some of your listeners take some of the extra commutes that they're not listening to your wonderful podcast on, and come give it a listen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much Laura.

Laura Vanderkam:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. There were so many great takeaways from that and from the book, Off The Clock. I'm going to give you a couple more here and, of course, you can check out the book and get even more.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip number one. Money can solve productivity problems. One of my favorite examples in the book is when Laura talks about Harry Potter author, J.K. Rowling. She was writing her seventh book, [inaudible 00:12:41]. So, by this point she had financial resources to say the least. But she couldn't get any work done in her house because the window cleaner was there, and the kids were home, and the dogs were barking. And then J.K. Rowling says in this story, a light bulb went on. I can throw money at this problem. And you know what? She decamped to a hotel to finish the draft and it worked cause she was able to focus. Money solved the problem.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, not all of us think that we have the budget to do that. I've never done that and to me it does seem extreme on the surface. However, because of the new resources that we have and we're going to give you some ideas and apps that we have access to now, there are very reasonable hotel rooms available at the last minute in our own cities, and that is something we could potentially look into when we just need to get to a place where we can focus on getting our work done, especially when we're coming up against a big deadline. So some app examples are: Hotel Tonight, One Night, and Hotel Quickly. And you can find very cheap deals in your city very often using apps like these. I'll put the links in the show notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you don't have a budget, maybe you have a friend with a spare bedroom. Tell them what you're up to so they don't expect you to be social, but maybe you can use that. And, if it's just a few hours that you need, of course, you can go to a coffee shop. That's always available as a resource for many people. But another option, sometimes, is to just go to your local library and just hunker down in a quiet area there and get some work done.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip number two. Be a pessimist when deciding when to leave for important meetings or trips. Vanderkam discovered that people who are late, even though I think it's often inconsiderate or poor planning, really what it is, is they're optimists. They always remember the best scenario of getting to a place. So, if they're planning a trip that involves going to the airport, they might remember that it only took 15 minutes to get to the airport but, of course, what they don't remember is that was at, you know, 5 a.m. on a Sunday when no one else was going. Maybe this time they're going at 9 a.m. on a Monday morning and they don't factor in that it's going to take a lot longer. So, because they're not planning according to the worse case scenario, things go awry. So plan according to the worst case scenario and, you know what, maybe you'll get there early and you'll have extra time, and you can do something fun with that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to you for gifting this time to yourself to hopefully improve your life just a little thanks to the wonderful advice and wisdom from Laura Vanderkam. Please be in touch. Follow me on Twitter@bobbirebell, on Instagram@bobbirebell1, and on Facebook@bobbirebell, and DM me with your thoughts on the podcast. Laura Vanderkam is living a very financially grownup life. I got so much value from taking the time to read, Off The Clock, and I know you will too. So thank you Laura for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Parenting expert KJ Dell’Antonia takes the money lessons her parents taught her as a child, and adapts them to her rural life raising 4 kids on a farm. The author of the new book “How to be a Happier Parent” discusses her kids income streams, financial responsibilities, and other behind the scenes details to help other families adapt to the realities of our digital culture. 

 

In KJ’s money story you will learn:

-The specific ways her parents taught her to be financially responsible at a young age

-How KJ applies some, but not all of those rules to her own life

-The strategy KJ uses in teaching her 4 kids about money

-How author Ron Lieber inspired how KJ teachers her kids about finances

-When to pay kids for tasks/chores around the house

-How the things kids want today is different from when KJ was growing up

-KJ and Bobbi disagree about spending money on “virtual” purchases like in-app offerings

-The businesses KJ’s kids have and other income streams happening in her household

-How KJ determines how much to pay her son and his friends to do work on their farm

In KJ’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of setting kids up with savings accounts that have interest

-The lesson KJ learned from her dad about checking accounts

-How KJ set up a virtual allowance for her kids

In KJ’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The strategy KJ uses to be a happier parent when traveling

-Her take on budgeting for travel

-How it is different from her parents point of view on traveling as a family

KJ and Bobbi also talk about:

-KJ’s new book “How to be a Happier Parent” 

-How to set the clocks that you can control

-Why she says ‘everyday is a race against the clocks we don’t set’

-Techniques to set up routines that work

-KJ’s four ways to make parents happier

 

In My Take you will learn: 

-My take on ways to help kids learn to be financially responsible

-How to find your own solutions to teaching kids about money- regardless of what your peer group is doing

-How me and my siblings learned about budgeting from our dad

-My take on traveling with a family and whether to splurge on that extra room or nicer hotel- even if it means cutting the trip shorter

EPISODE LINKS

Learn more about KJ and her latest book howtobeahappierparent.com

KJ’s website: KJDellantonia.com

Follow KJ!

Instagram @kjda

Twitter @kjdellantonia

Facebook: KJ Dell’Antonia

Check out the Ron Lieber episode we talks about! 

 

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

KJ Dell'Antonia:
I wouldn't let them spend $500 on a virtual thing, but if you want to nickel and dime yourself up to $100 in a month, I'll let you know it's happening, but I'm going to let you do it if you have $100.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. That was new friend, KJ Dell-Antonia talking about her kids and letting them splurge on virtual purchases, something, by the way, we disagreed on. I got to meet her recently at Podcast Movement, and we bonded over all things money and parenting. When I heard she had a new book coming out, How to Be a Happier Parent, I was all over it. You knew she was coming on. This is a great interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome to our new listeners. For those of you just discovering us, we're so glad that you're here. As a regulars know, we keep the shows short, around 15 minutes, so you can fit it into your busy life, but we also know some of you have more time so we do three a week. Feel free to listen to a few at a time. Subscribing will make this easier. Don't forget. Go into the settings, set up auto download. Then you don't have to do anything more. Automate your podcast like you automate your savings.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to KJ. Her book is super practical and -- I love this part -- very specific. It's like a roadmap. Very well researched, but it also has a lot of information about her family life which is fascinating by the way. She talks a lot about it in her interview. Here is KJ Dell'Antonia.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, KJ Dell'Antonia. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the author of so many things but most recently How to Be a Happier Parent which no one needs. We all need this. We all need this so badly, and you're the perfect person because you are the former lead editor of the New York Times mother lode. You're still involved in that kind of writing as well. Congratulations on the new book which is coming out.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Thank you. Thank you. I'm really excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is a perfect podcast for you because you were basically born a financial grownup. Tell us your money story.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
I was definitely raised a financial grownup. I'm an only child, and my dad in particular was really determined that I would understand the value of a dollar and understand how the financial system worked. People say there are those who understand compound interest and then there are those who pay it. He was determined that I would be the one who understood it.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was his job? What was his background?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
He's in computers.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
He was not a financial advisor. It's just money is an important part of life, and it was important to him that it be something that I understood. If I had a lemonade stand, I had to pay for all the ingredients and justify how much we were spending versus how much we were making. As I got older if I needed a loan for something, I he would charge me interest. I would really ... I mean I had to pay him every month certain amounts. He set up a checking account for me really early. He got me a credit card really early that I got the bills for. I mean to have missed a payment and paid interest on that credit card, I mean I can think of nothing more shameful.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no. So now you are officially the financial grownup of the household. You have four children.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
I do.

Bobbi Rebell:
How is this now translating into how you are teaching them to be independent financial adults and then therefore you will be a happier parent?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
That is the hope. We do give them an allowance. It is not an exchange for work. That's a Ron Leiber tip that I have completely embraced. He's the author of The Opposite of Spoiled. I will pay them for jobs that I would pay someone else to do. Now, they are 17, 14, 12, and 12. The 17-year-old and the two 12-year-olds take care of the lawn because I paid someone else to take care of the lawn. In our house, you have to pay for your own electronics. If you want a phone, you have to save up. You have to be able to pay the monthly bills for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So before we were recording, you joked but I think you were also somewhat serious that you are not as good at teaching your children to become financial grownups as your dad was in your case. What's different?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
When I was growing up, I wanted Gloria Vanderbilt jeans or Doc Martens or whatever. My kids want Fortnite money. I feel like helping them to sort of keep track of digital money is really challenging.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. So what do you do? I've had this happen where your kid wants money to buy something that is virtual. It's an in-app purchase that's not actually a thing. It's like a new avatar or something that, for me at least, I really don't want them to ever spend a penny on ever. You're okay with them buying these virtual things in these games?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Once it's their money, I'll talk to them. At the end of a month, I might say "Do you realize how much you spent?" Especially when it comes ... I've got one now that wants a phone. Boy, you better bet I'm going "Yeah, look how much you spent on Pokemon Go. You could have had a quarter of a phone for that." Once it's their money, I pretty much let them spend it on whatever they want within some limits. I wouldn't let them spend $500 on a virtual thing, but if you want to nickel and dime yourself up to $100 in a month, I'll let you know it's happening but I'm going to let you do it if you have $100.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you tell me, for each of them quickly, what are their primary income streams? It is all just for tasks that you would pay other people for? Or are there other things that your kids are doing to earn this money?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
I have a 17-year-old. He has a small business selling maple soda and maple iced tea at our farmer's market. He's struggling to make a profit at it, but he's finally getting there. He's got allowance saved, and we also have a small farm so I will pay him for farm work. He's hauling hay bales and driving the tractor. When we're in really the throes of farm work, I hire his friends as well. He makes $15 an hour from me. My 14-year-old daughter is a huge babysitter so she gets paid to babysit. In fact, she doesn't do any lawn work. She doesn't want to do lawn work, and she's got her income stream. She babysits. The other ones do mostly lawn work for me and allowance and saving up birthday gifts still, but they're both only 12.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson from this? What advice do you have for parents in this situation teaching kids about money?

KJ Dell'Antonia:
If you can set them up with some kind of savings where they can see the interest coming in ... My dad actually had something where they would mail me a little tiny check for the interest. I'm not sure how he came up with that, but he kept these minuscule checks. It was neat and it was educational. If you have to have sort of virtual money as we do, I mean all this allowance that I'm talking about, it tends to be virtual. We use an app. Make sure you talk about what's going in and what's going out.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip. I've done this so I was really excited to hear this. Go for it.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
If you have kids and you're traveling with kids and this would make you happier, book two hotel rooms. There was a woman in my book who was talking about this and she had a partner, and she was like "No sex on vacation is not a good vacation." That's part of the reason, but part of the reason is just for your own sanity. You have a little ones. You put them to bed. You retire to your own room. You get an adjoining room. Spend a little less time in the location and a little more money on making that a more comfortable experience.

Bobbi Rebell:
One day less you probably won't miss. You'll still really have the experience.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that idea.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Yeah, I feel like one day less but a more pleasant days that you have there is going to be worth it. My folks would have said "But you're just sleeping there because we're going to get up and go." You got to decide what works for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. That's a lot of the themes in your book, How to Be a Happier Parent, which is coming out right as the kids are heading back to school. It's a perfect time for parents to really be proactively thinking about parenting and-

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
... the decisions that they make and the systems that we put in place when we get back into our routines in the fall. I love this quote. "It's hard to find happiness when every day is a race against a clock we don't set."

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Yeah. Part of what I'm trying to do in the book is help you to set the clocks you do control. We talk about mornings, homework, screen time, all the stuff that as we, like you said, get back into our normal routines, we're really looking and going "Okay. How are we going to handle that this year?"

Bobbi Rebell:
One other part of the book I love is there's four things that can make parents happier.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Parents who say that they're happier in their parenting, that they feel sort of better about it, they tend, when their kids are younger, to be one the more involved side. When they are parents of older kids, they tend to describe themselves as doing things that encourage independence in their kids. That's one thing, sort of that evolution from helping to letting go and letting your kids do what they're capable of. Happier parents have a real mindset of recognizing when things are pretty good even if some things are bad. Looking around at a moment when the kids are bickering and maybe there's a lot of homework and dinner's not on the table and recognizing to yourself that "Hey, it's a rough evening, but really overall this is what I wanted. We're all healthy. We're all happy. We're here together" and just soaking in that good feeling.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Happier parents also, they know what's really big. I call it's what's a tiger and what's not a tiger. Most of the things in life that stress us on behalf of our kids are not a tiger. There will always be another balloon. There will always be another lost Thomas train. There will always be another best friend and there's another college. Those things are ... When things go wrong for our kids, it's stressful, but typically, it's not a tiger. The last thing that happier parents tend to say is that they don't put their children's everyday needs above their own. When they're looking at something like what to serve for dinner or where to go on vacation, they don't pick based on what will make the kids happy. They pick based on what's going to make the family happier. Sometimes we should be looking at them and going "I'm sorry. I can't run you to Jessie's house because I've got a tennis game in 10 minutes. You'll have to find another way to get there."

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. I do have a pretty regular tennis game on Saturday mornings with my friend. You know what? I get home and my son gets to sleep a little late and it's okay.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's important for us to stick to activities. You talk about this in the book too. To stick to activities that made us happy before we had kids and just keep doing it. It sets a good example for them. Tell us more about the book, where they can see you, where they can learn more about you, and all that good stuff.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
The best way to find me is kjdellantonia.com. You'll also find me in the New York Times. There's a couple of excerpts from the book that are running or have run, one in the Boston Globe as well. Howtobeahappierparent.com will also work. All the urls, all the things. On Instagram, I'm @kjda, and everywhere else, I'm KJ Dell'Antonia.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. Well thank you for all that you do for all of us parents. We truly appreciate it. A lot of what you say actually goes for just about everyone in people that you deal with in your everyday life. Great perspective. Congratulations on the new book.

KJ Dell'Antonia:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that KJ isn't afraid to do things differently from her parents even though she admits they did a good job teaching her to be financially responsible. Financial Grownup tip number one. As we raise kids, we may think that our strategy to teach kids to be financially responsible will be the same as other parents, but think again. Some people will insist they want to pay kids for everything. Some don't believe in paying kids for things they should be doing as a member of the family.

Bobbi Rebell:
There are parents who will -- this is true -- give teenagers credit cards or debit cards with zero restrictions saying "I don't want them to think we can't afford something" or they say they'll monitor their spending and, this way, they can see everything going on and have a discussion about it. I can see the logic. Or they just don't want to bother to talk to their kids about it because they're busy so life goes on and there's no plan and no cap on spending. They just kind of give the kids money haphazardly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Whatever you decide, make it deliberate and I do think it is a good idea to get ideas from other parents, but don't feel pressured to do what they do. Just because your kids bestie has an unlimited credit card doesn't mean you have to do that too. My siblings and I, for example, we had to present a budget to our parents at the beginning of, let's say, a semester of school and then if they approved it and funded it, we had to live within that and that was that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. I love KJ's tip about travel. The truth is, if you prefer to stay at a nicer hotel or have that extra room like KJ says, just make the trip a little shorter. You'll still have the experience and it will cut down on the tension and make the whole thing a lot more enjoyable.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for joining us. Tell us more about your financial grownup experiences. DM me. I am @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and on Facebook at Bobbi Rebell. To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast which will also get you to the show notes. Those are always at bobbirebell.com/ and then the guest name. In this case, KJ Dell'Antonia. Thanks to KJ for sharing such great tips and insights, helping us all get one step closer to be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Taxes are never fun but millions of Americans may pay less for 2018. David Rae CFP® joins Bobbi for a breakdown of what changes matter and specific things Financial Grownups can do to make sure they are on track for when it is time to turn in their returns this spring. 

Here are 5 tips for year end tax planning

• Max out your retirement accounts

• Set up the Right Retirement Plan for your business

• Strategically Bunch your Tax Deductions

• Consider Doner-Advised Funds

• Tax-Loss Harvesting

Wealth coach Adeola Omole got a do-over she didn’t want when she got laid off a second time- but by being financially prepared she was able to land on her feet. The author of “7 Steps to get out of Debt and Build Wealth” shares her story of how she came out stronger the second time around. 

In Adeola's money story you will learn:

• How she prepared herself for a second lay-off

• What the Super-Charged Financial Strategy is and how it helped her to pay off $70,000 in consumer debt in less than 3 years

• Why you should negotiate interest rate reductions

In Adeola’s money lesson you will learn:

• What she did to layoff proof her life

• Why debt is the only thing that holds you back from living the life you want

In Adeola's everyday money tip you will learn:

• What it means to triple-check your way to wealth and why it's important

In My Take you will learn:

• Why no ask is too great when negotiating interest rate reductions

• Why it's so important to pay attention to what's going on in your industry on an economic level

Adeola has generously sent, from Canada no less, two signed copies of her book 7 Steps To Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth to give away- all you have to do it DM me your takeaway from this episode- bobbirebell1 on instagram bobbirebell on twitter or email us at hello@financialgrownup.com

Episode Links:

Check out Adeola's website - https://www.adeolaomole.com/

Adeola's book 7 Steps to Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth

Follow Adeola!

• Instagram

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Adeola Amole:
Because of my first layoff experience I actually created my entire career to layoff-proof my life. In essence, I built up my asset base so I have these rental properties that are cashflow positive, I have money coming in from my investments from the stock market. I really had already set myself up to take care of that subconsciously.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. It's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grownups. No matter how much we talk about being ready for something like a layoff who really is? Right? For today's guest, wealth coach, author, social worker and lawyer, Adeola Amole, getting laid off for the second time still caught her off-guard even though the signs were all there.

Bobbi Rebell:
This time she was a lot better prepared and I think you are going to be very interested in what she did to layoff-proof her life. It was not just having an emergency fund, although that also matters a lot.

Bobbi Rebell:
Happy holidays to everyone and special welcome to our newest listeners. So glad you found us. We keep the episodes on the short side, about 15 minutes, with the idea that you can stack a few together to fill the time that you have to listen. Feel free to listen to a few episodes at a time if that's what works for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's get back to Adeola. She is also the author of a really readable book and I don't take that lightly because it is true to the title 7 Steps To Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth in that she really walks us through exactly what to do. Action steps, not just theories. She comes from experience as you will hear in our interview. Here is Adeola Amole.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Adeola Amole. You are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Adeola Amole:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
We practiced saying your name because I am terrible at pronunciation. I just want to say for people curious about the name Adeola Amole it is of Nigerian origin. I just learned this. It means crown of wealth, which we love, so welcome.

Adeola Amole:
Well, thank you. Yeah. No. I love it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the author of 7 Steps To Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth. You are a money coach but by trade your background is as a lawyer and you have a graduate degree in social work. You know a lot about a lot of things.

Adeola Amole:
Well, thank you for that. I like to think that I'm a person who just wants to learn and I love learning about so many different things as my background shows. Now I'm living my passion. This wealth coaching thing is right up my alley. I also am able to still use the legal background as well as the social work background. It marries brilliantly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to your money story. It has to do with the art of the do-over. Let's call it that. Go for it.

Adeola Amole:
I got laid off and I literally had no backup plan, no clue how to do it. Long story short, I figured out a strategy. I call it the Super-Charged Financial Strategy. I figured out how to pay it all off and luckily for me [crosstalk 00:03:30]

Bobbi Rebell:
We should say you had quite a bit ... You had $70,000 in consumer debt when you suddenly had no income of your own and your husband had a smaller income. You had the larger income.

Adeola Amole:
Exactly. You are absolutely correct. $70,000 was paid off in the first three years of the plan. Just shy of three years.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the plan? When you say the plan what is the plan?

Adeola Amole:
The Super-Charged Financial Strategy is a two-part plan. The first part of the strategy I call it the Super-Charged Debt Repayment Plan and that literally is the snowball method on super-charged. Hence, the fact that I call it the Super-Charged Plan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because you would pay but you would also negotiate a lot with the credit card companies.

Adeola Amole:
Exactly. I would negotiate like crazy. This is where the legal background truly did pay off because I literally knew ... I setup the system for myself and I knew exactly what processes I would have to use. If I didn't get what I wanted from the rep I would just ask to speak with a manager and usually got what I wanted. I knew how to negotiate myself to as low a rate as possible.

Bobbi Rebell:
What I love about this is you at times went for the 8% or 9% but you even went for 0% sometimes. You can ask for that. It's a little bit bold, you won't always succeed, but you can ask for 0%.

Adeola Amole:
Exactly. It works. It helps you crush that debt faster.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You had the first layoff. You learned from the idea of not being prepared. Then life goes on, you get a new job, the recession, we move past the recession, past that 18 months of being unemployed, things are good, you now have a child, your husband is home now taking care of the child. What happens next?

Adeola Amole:
Yeah. To add onto that story we have a child but now we have two rental properties. We have money in the markets. We built up assets after having paid off the $70,000 consumer debt. Now things are looking fabulous, my husband is a stay-at-home dad. He's been with our son for four years.

Adeola Amole:
Then we get pregnant with a second child but I didn't tell my employer this because most women know this, first trimester you just stay hush hush until you go into the second trimester. Long story short, I get laid off again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Had you had any idea this was coming?

Adeola Amole:
No. Well, I shouldn't say no. What happened is I worked in an industry where it was really contingent on oil prices. Oil prices had just crashed. This was I believe last quarter of 2014. I was in a position where we got rumors as to, "Things aren't looking so good. Oil is going down." People talked about it but no one knew that it was going to happen. We had suspicions but obviously I didn't think I was going to be one of them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you feel looking back you had a sense of denial maybe about it?

Adeola Amole:
Absolutely. Absolutely. However, I have to tell you because of my first layoff experience I actually created my entire career to layoff-proof my life. In essence, I built up my asset base so I had these rental properties that were cashflow positive. I had money coming in from my investments from the stock market. I really had already set myself up to take care of that subconsciously.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. What happens?

Adeola Amole:
Yeah. I'm laid off. My employer at the time doesn't know that I'm three months pregnant. I should have been absolutely terrified but I wasn't because, as I said, we set ourselves up. We had cashflow in properties. We had investment properties.

Adeola Amole:
My husband and I were figuring out what to do next and we had five months to think about it. Guess what? There was money to take care of everything. We had a 12 month emergency plan. It was really my financial do-over.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. What is your advice for our listeners? What's the takeaway here?

Adeola Amole:
The biggest takeaway is, guys, plan for these what ifs. These what ifs it's not if they're going to happen. It's when they're going to happen. It's best to just put a plan of action in place. Crush that debt. Like get it off your plate, get it off your balance sheet.

Adeola Amole:
At the end of the day, that's what's holding you back from really creating the life that you want to live. If you get that out of the way you can truly start planning where you want to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You brought with you a great everyday money tip that's something we kind of all should know but we just ... I don't do it. I totally take the short way and I'm sure I've made so many bad decisions, I know I have, because of it. Teach us.

Adeola Amole:
You're awesome. The tip that I have is triple-check your way to wealth. It's a really simple tip and it's something that you can totally use today and it means that when you're looking for any item, like any big ticket item, even a little ticket item, always at least refer to three merchants or three service providers for pricing and also for service. This is boiling down to people as well as prices. I think it matters to work with good people. I always want to work with good people. I always want to get the best prices.

Adeola Amole:
I recently had some auto body work that I had to do. I was referred to one company and when I called them ... They're a reputable company and I've heard about them so I knew that they were good ... I called the service provider and they set a price that sounded wonky to me. It was like $3800 to get this done. I literally almost lost my mind.

Adeola Amole:
I thought, "Okay, let's just call around" so I called a few other folks, got some references. Long story short, after doing the check I found an incredible company, extremely reputable, used by the best dealerships where I live, and they came up with a price that was just $1000 shy of the price so it was $2800. The people were incredible, they were extremely friendly, and because I'm a lawyer I decided I'm going to negotiate an even better rate.

Adeola Amole:
I spoke with the guy and told him, "Okay, what can we do here? I really want to go with you, I really like you guys. What more can you do for me?" Sure enough he gave me $200 less than it was originally quoted. $2600 and change. Long story short, guys, triple-check your way to wealth. That extra money now can go into my investment portfolio.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your favorite go-to source for even finding vendors or people that you can work with? Sometimes it's really hard just to get referrals.

Adeola Amole:
It's the truth. It depends on what it is. In this instance, because it was auto body I've worked with a few companies in the past so I went to the companies I trusted. My husband and I drive Acuras and Hondas. I went to the dealerships, the Acura dealerships that I like and that we've dealt with in the past and I spoke with the guys and said, "Who would you refer?"

Adeola Amole:
They gave me some auto body shops. Then I went to the Honda dealerships, "Who would you refer?" I had a list of a bunch of them. Go to the source. If you're looking for even if it's just furniture and stuff go to the sources. Go to the people you know who have fabulous furniture or go to the companies themselves and just start talking to the people who are working there. Sometimes they'll tell you, "Don't buy it here. Go here."

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there an advantage to talking to them in real life versus just calling around or looking at an app?

Adeola Amole:
You know, I think there is. Always that human connection will get you the better referrals and then you can connect with them, right? So they're willing to give you that information. Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think being in person makes a huge difference. Tell us more about where we can find out more about you and your book.

Adeola Amole:
Oh, absolutely. My book 7 Steps To Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth, guys, it's available everywhere. Go to my website www dot Adeola Amole dot com and there you can choose your retailer of choice because I'm on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Books A Million, Indigo, pretty much anywhere you can buy books it's available.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much. Social media, where can we follow you?

Adeola Amole:
Instagram is my stomping ground. I'm everywhere but Instagram is my stomping ground. I'm at Adeola Amole B.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much. This was great.

Adeola Amole:
Aww. Thanks for having me, Bobbi. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Let's get right to it. Financial grownup tip number one, when it comes to things like cutting your debt no ask is too aggressive when you negotiate for interest rate reductions like Adeola. She went for the 0% interest rate. Kind of surprised me but I'm impressed. While she didn't always get there she sometimes did so why not ask?

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, listen to the whispers at work. Pay attention to the larger macro economic climate and what's going on in your industry. Adeola in her gut knew that there was a good chance she was going to get laid off but she was still surprised. Financially, though, with her multiple and largely passive income streams she was ready.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, everyone. Adeola has generously sent, from Canada no less, two signed copies of her book 7 Steps To Get Out of Debt and Build Wealth to give away. All you have to do is DM me your takeaway from this episode on any of the social channels. On Instagram at Bobbi Rebell 1, on Twitter at Bobbi Rebell, or if you prefer email you can email me at Hello at Financial Grownup dot com. Big thanks to Adeola Amole for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Dr. Daniel Crosby is great at helping others come to grips with their often irrational money related behavior. But just 3 years ago when it came time to make a big real estate decision, his own insecurities and money issues drove a decision he now regrets. 

In Daniel's money story you will learn:

• Why he feels like buying a big house was his biggest financial mistake

• The reasons behind his move and why he wanted a big house

• Why moving to a different neighborhood or a slightly smaller house doesn't make financial sense

In Daniel’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why buying a home isn't the way to buy happiness

• Why it's important, when making financial decisions, to look at your emotions and insecurities behind your decisions

In Daniel's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why it's important to identify a point of weakness in your financial lives

In My Take you will learn:

• If you own it, own it

• Why it's important to realize that because you can "afford it" doesn't mean you have to buy at the top of your budget

Episode Links:

• Daniel's Course

• The Behavioral Investor

• The Laws of Wealth

• Daniel's podcast - Standard Deviations

• Brian Portnoy's Financial Grownup Episode

Follow Daniel!

• LinkedIn

• Twitter

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
But the crazy thing here is, that Dr. Crosby has done all this research into why people do dumb things when it comes to money. And then, he goes ahead, and by his own admission, falls prey to a big financial decision, largely because of his ego. Dr. Daniel Crosby and his wife are moving with their kids from Alabama to Georgia, and they bought a really big house in a really fancy neighborhood.

Bobbi Rebell:
Not out of their budget, but out of their comfort zone. His insecurity is endearing, and I believe, totally sincere. I hope you enjoy this chat with Dr. Daniel Crosby.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Dr. Daniel Crosby, you're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Daniel Crosby:
Thank you. Great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm so excited you're here. We were introduced by a mutual friend and a fellow Financial Grownup, Brian Portnoy, who was on talking about his book, Geometry of Wealth, and everyone can check out that episode. We'll leave a link in the show notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are, and I'm going to read your own notes that you sent to me. You are a shrink turned money guy. You have a PhD in Clinical Psychology. You are also The New York Times Bestselling Author of three books. Your latest book is called The Behavioral Investor. We're going to talk a lot more about that soon. And it is about the four most common psychological traps that we fall into. What a great teaser, Daniel.

Daniel Crosby:
Yeah, yeah. On book three, I'm getting better at this. I was crummy the first time, but I'm getting there.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you also have a little firm called Nocturn Capital. Cool name. Who came up with the name?

Daniel Crosby:
Well, my wife is a pianist, and she likes Chopin, so she plays a lot of nocturnes. One nod is to her, who I love very dearly. And the second nod is, to things that are nocturnal are most active when things are darkest. So it's sort of a nod to value investing and my dear wife.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's get to our money story that you brought. It's about a financial mistake and I guess we'll dissect that from a psychological standpoint. It has to do with buying a big house.

Daniel Crosby:
We had a beautiful home. A more modest home, but a very nice home in Alabama that was very inexpensive, of course, as well. Almost immediately, like almost immediately upon moving back to Alabama, I'd started to experience sort of this lack of respect I felt at conferences, but then, also I was just itchy. Like just itchy to go somewhere new.

Daniel Crosby:
So we started to have this conversation and it was couched in reasonable terms, and I think that that's one of the dangerous things about how we can kind of fool ourselves, behaviorally. I couched it in terms of, "It would be nice to be close to a better airport, it would be nice to have access to deeper pockets in a larger population," all of which is true on the margins.

Daniel Crosby:
But when I'm really, really honest with myself, the thing that was driving the conversation was A, my ego, my desire to sort of show people that I had arrived. And B, was this sort of shame. Those were kind of the big primary drivers, but during the time when my wife and I are having the conversation, it wasn't framed in those terms.

Daniel Crosby:
And I think that's one of the dangerous subtle things about human cognition, is we can operate in ways that are based out of fear, or weakness, or greed, or whatever. And we can lie to ourselves a bit to make them seem more palatable to ourselves, and we can really buy our own BS. We listen to the bankers, right.

Daniel Crosby:
We said, "How much loan can we get?" And we saw the number, and we were rightly shocked by how high it was. And we backed off of that considerably, even by about 50%. But still, we never stopped to ask ourselves, and I think many homeowners do this. Many people who are purchasing a home, they ask themselves, "How much house can I afford and not how much house should I afford?"

Bobbi Rebell:
If you feel comfortable, could you tell us the numbers involved, and what that house was worth, and what the new house was worth?

Daniel Crosby:
Yeah, so the old house in Alabama, we still have as a rental property. We've rented it ever since we moved out. It's been great. And then we paid 750 for the house in Atlanta.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is not a question of affordability.

Daniel Crosby:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
You could afford that, right.

Daniel Crosby:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not at all a question of affordability. See, that's where I think that the nuance comes in. It's not a question of affordability. We got approved and could have afforded much more than that. It's not even a question of, "Is it a nice place?"

Daniel Crosby:
Because it is, but it's just something that, it's not us. It's in a gated neighborhood. So people come through and they go, "Oh, wow. A gate, and a big house." And my wife and I agree, that it just doesn't suit our personalities.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what are you going to do about it, Dr. Crosby?

Daniel Crosby:
Well, this is a point of weekly conversation, because now we have a child, who's in the local school system, and she's on student council, and she's really thriving. And so, I don't know. I mean, we feel kind of stuck and there's so many transaction costs involved with the sale of a home.

Daniel Crosby:
I think if we were to move, we would just move within the area, which is almost exclusively homes a lot like ours if she were to stay in the same school. So candidly, I don't think we'll do anything.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever talked to the neighbors about the general culture of the area, or the perception of the culture of the area?

Daniel Crosby:
You know, I never have. And I think it's one of those taboos, and you worry that you're going to get looked at sideways, but no. I've never talked with the neighbors about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Daniel Crosby:
The takeaway is, if you're trying to buy happiness, a home is absolutely not the way to go, I think is takeaway number one. There's just so much involved with it and your hassle grows with the size of your home.

Daniel Crosby:
And I think lesson number two, which is perhaps the more important lesson is, be careful of the ways that you can deceive yourself. When you're thinking about your financial life, be sure to get down to the nitty-gritty, the emotional stuff, the pain, the insecurity. That's where I didn't go.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We're going to shift gears and get to your everyday money tip.

Daniel Crosby:
What I encourage folks to do with their financial lives, is to try and identify a point of weakness beforehand. To try and say, "If there's a reason that I'm not going to reach my retirement goals, or whatever it is, what would that reason be?" And so I walked through this with a friend of mine, who was over for Thanksgiving. And we were talking about his upcoming retirement.

Daniel Crosby:
And he disclosed to me what percentage of his wealth was in this single company stock, and it was well over 50% of his significant wealth. And I said, I walked him through this idea of a premortem, and said, "Look. If something were to go wrong with your savings and your retirement nest egg, what do you think it would be?"

Daniel Crosby:
And he said, "Well, probably some sort of risk to the business that would cause this stock to decline a great deal." And it's like, "Yeah." Because you can't always meet that head-on. I was aware of this over-concentrated position of his for a long time now.

Daniel Crosby:
But when you try and say, "Hey, man. You got to sell this, you got to tell this, you got to diversify," there's a very human nature, a very human tendency to tell people to, "Get lost," when they sort of command us to do something.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your book, The Behavioral Investor, is your latest bestseller, following I think your big book was The Laws of Wealth. One of the things that love about The Behavioral Investor, is that you make us take a second look at a lot of the assumptions that we have, especially regarding investing.

Daniel Crosby:
So real space behavioral investing has a couple things in common. First of all, it has a reasonable fee. When Morningstar looked at all of the data points that predict investment performance, they found, came to the decidedly unsexy conclusion that the number one predictor of how a fund does is how much it costs. Because, of course, those costs directly erode from your performance.

Daniel Crosby:
So the first check mark is whether it's active, passive, or whatever in-between, right, it needs to be have an appropriate fee. The second thing you want to look at is that it's rules-based. And this is sort of goes into the first. Rules-based portfolios tend to be cheaper than discretionary portfolios because you got to pay some Ivy League genius to run the discretionary portfolio, whereas the rules-based portfolio can just run on algorithms.

Daniel Crosby:
So rule number one, portfolio needs to be adequately priced, sort of cheapishly priced. Second thing is, it needs to be rules-based. And then the third thing is, it needs to automate good behavior. Most of us have the tendency to do just the wrong thing at the wrong time. I mean, that's sort of the simple lesson of The Behavioral Investor.

Bobbi Rebell:
This was interesting. It was on page 193, you talk about intuition, and which jobs have had the best and the worst intuition. So the worst, I'm sorry to say, included psychologists, I believe. Like you.

Daniel Crosby:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Bobbi Rebell:
Also stockbrokers.

Daniel Crosby:
Like me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is discouraging. Also, college admissions officers, which is really upsetting because we really want to think for all the care and the years of preparation that we spend preparing ourselves, preparing our children for college, that they have better gut instincts.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, of course, judges, another important job. And intelligence analysts and HR professionals. Daniel, you're bursting our bubble here.

Daniel Crosby:
Yeah, but if you look at those things, there's a very common thread that runs through all of them, and it's humanity, right. So people who do have intuition, are mathematicians and physicists, who have seen a problem, they've familiarized themselves with it, and they can start to intuit.

Daniel Crosby:
Like, "Oh, I think this is where it's going," because math and physics and related hard sciences follow hard rules. Human beings, for better and worse, do not follow hard rules. And so the more there is a human element to the work you do, the less intuition counts.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Hot button topic today, passive investing. And some big proponents of it have come out, expressing real concern about the fact that passive investing, in the form of especially of index funds, is really getting to a level that is concerning.

Daniel Crosby:
So we know on the one hand, that over the last 30 years, passive investment vehicles have beaten their active counterparts about 85% of the time. I mean, a little bit more or less, depending on what sort of asset class you're looking at. But, I mean, that is like incredible, and to think that they've done it at a fraction of the cost is even more incredible. So that's sort of exhibit A.

Daniel Crosby:
But exhibit B, we have the real truth about financial markets, which is that, as soon as everyone thinks something is a good idea, it sort of ceases to be a good idea. And it's something that's referred to as the tragedy of the commons, right, and it comes back from ancient times, when there was like a common park or a common pasture.

Daniel Crosby:
And so, it's the best thing for all of the farmers to want to graze their cows on someone else's land, until all of the farmers decide to do that, and then there's no grass left. So as long as a minority of people are passive investors, which is the case today, passive investing makes a lot of sense.

Daniel Crosby:
But as everyone begins to latch onto this and as everyone beings to head in that direction, I think theoretically, you have to ask yourself the question, "Does it become sort of unmored by the fact that everyone's grazing their cows in the same place?"

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us about where people can learn more about you, and your book, and your podcast, which we had not mentioned yet, and all the things.

Daniel Crosby:
I'm very active on LinkedIn, Daniel Crosby, PhD. I'm at Twitter, @DanielCrosby. And you can tune into the podcast, which is called Standard Deviations.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Daniel Crosby:
My pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, my friends. Let's break this down. Financial Grownup tip number one, if you own it, own it. Dr. Crosby is sincerely uncomfortable in his house, but it doesn't make financial sense for him to move. I asked him if he had talked to the neighbors because it seemed to me, that he is assuming that all of his neighbors are the kind of people that live in really big, really fancy houses, unlike him and his family who's really more modest, but bought something that's just too fancy for the image he feels comfortable with.

Bobbi Rebell:
He hadn't talked to his neighbors. Maybe if he reaches out to them, make some friends, and sees the area as a family neighborhood, not a collection of just fancy houses with people more fancy than he is, he might be a little more comfortable. Or, maybe not. But in general, I think it's always good to humanize what's going on in a situation that makes you a little uncomfortable. People may not be what you perceive them to be.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, a little blast from the past housing crisis. You don't have to buy a big house or an expensive house just because the banker said, "You can afford it." Even if you cut their budget in half, as the Crosby's did, if you don't want to have that much house, don't. Besides, you can always add on an investment property with the extra cash and create a little passive income, right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for your continued support of the show. It really means a lot when you write a review, so please take a moment this holiday season for that. And be in touch on Instagram on bobbirebell1 and on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and you can always email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. And big thanks to Dr. Daniel Crosby for being so candid and for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Technology can’t really be unplugged, so the best solution is the make it work for us as Humans. Back to Human author Dan Schawbel joins Bobbi Rebell as co-host on this special Financial Grownup Guide. They discuss 5 specific actionable tips to using technology to enhance and humanize the role of our devices in our daily lives. 

• Specific ways to eliminate tech driven distractions

• How to manage devices and stay focused in meetings

• How to use apps to learn and then control your time online.

• How to most effectively use video conferencing

• The best ways to delegate unwanted tasks to technology so you can focus on being more human

Episode Links:

Dan's book Back to Human

Dan's book Promote Yourself and Me 2.0

Dan’s podcast 5 Questions with Dan Schawbel

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Guide, five ways to make technology more human, with special guest cohost, Back to Human author, Dan Schawbel.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hi everyone, welcome to a new Financial Grownup Guide. These are short episodes meant to give us all some actionable life tips to be a little bit more grownup. If you are looking for what we now call classic episodes with money stories and everyday money tips from high achievers, they drop on Mondays and Thursdays. We have a library of over 100 and growing. So do check them out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about technology. So many of us are feeling tech overload these days. At first, I had the idea to do a list of tips for unplugging. But you know what? I'm not sure if that's the best thing, or ever realistic. What we really need to do is just make technology work for us. So I recruited Dan Schawbel, he literally wrote a book about this called Back to Human, to get some tips about how we can get our technology to help us be a little more human.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Dan Schawbel, thanks for co-hosting this special episode with me.

Dan Schawbel:
So happy to be here with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is the thing Dan, we need to learn to make tech more human in the new year because we cannot get rid of technology. We're over that whole concept. But yet we have to make it work for us as humans because of course you are the author of Back to Human. So you're here to guide us. So thanks for joining me.

Dan Schawbel:
Happy to be here as your cohost.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about why this topic is so important to you, you basically wrote ... that's a lot of what the book Back to Human is.

Dan Schawbel:
Yeah. Technology has created the illusion of connection when in reality, our overuse and misuse of it has created a sense of isolation, loneliness, disengagement and lower team and organizational commitment. The way the workplace has changed now versus years ago is more people working remote, a third of the global workforce does. Yet 2/3 are disengaged. And you can be isolated in a physical space whether it's a corporate office. You can be isolated in the subway in New York City, where we both live, you can be isolated while you're walking down the street because people are looking and spending more time on devices than they are looking at a human being. And so I think this is important because as an introvert, as someone whose built a lot of connections digitally, I realize that it was very isolating and that the best way to use technology is to use it as a bridge to human connection. Let it get you to physical spaces, but be attentive, be respectful, and focus on the human to human communication because those relationships are what are gonna matter for you for the rest of your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
But also, I love that you're also realistic, that we can't completely unplug. It is what it is.

Dan Schawbel:
It is what it is. I think it's how, when, and where you use it. I interviewed 100 top young leaders and they say technology is a double-edged sword. It can be good or bad. And I think texting's someone that there's a meeting in five minutes or 10 minutes is appropriate but if you're in an argument with your coworker that's not gonna be solved through text and it's actually gonna make it worse.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. So Dan you brought with you five ways that we can make tech more human. Number one, eliminate distractions in your workplace, technology distractions.

Dan Schawbel:
Yeah. By watching TV, by having your iPad out, by looking at a laptop, if you're always doing that all day you're gonna feel trapped, you're gonna feel isolated from those around you. So be smart about what's in front of you and make sure that you take breaks because otherwise if you don't have a tech detox it's gonna be bad for your health and relationships.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love that you pointed out take breaks because so many workspaces now have screens all around us, whether it's television, with programming and content going on, or screens that just have corporate messaging. We screens everywhere. Not to mention our own devices, our phone, our iPad, our computer. So you make a great point that we need to walk away a little.

Dan Schawbel:
Everyone needs a break. Especially in today's society, everyone's always on. Not having your phone is the new vacation, the average work week in America is 47 hours a week but people bring their devices home with them and on weekends. So we're just overworked, we're burned out and that's why there's a whole backlash now globally on hours work. Finland, UK they're fighting for four day work week. In France they have the right to disconnect. In Japan, every citizen gets Monday mornings off. So we're-

Bobbi Rebell:
Really?

Dan Schawbel:
The technology's made us always work and now all these countries are saying, hey we need to do something about this. This is bad for the population's health.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your second tip actually goes to that point because not only are the devices encroaching on our personal time, they're encroaching on our meeting time because you'll be in a meeting and people are sometimes sitting there kind of looking at you but also on their screens. Which is like why bother even having this meeting? So what's your second tip?

Dan Schawbel:
Put your devices in the middle of the table when you're in a meeting. People send an average of five texts within a meeting. And so they're not being respectful for the people who are speaking, they're unable to collaborate, and I think it's part of the reason why meetings are dysfunctional and they last too long because people are physically there but not mentally, emotionally there. And so they're unable to contribute, collaborate, and it's not only disrespectful but what's the point in even being in the meeting in the first place if you're texting and emailing people who aren't even at that meeting?

Bobbi Rebell:
Dan, number three, so apropo, because there's so many apps on our phones that are distracting us but we actually have some apps that can do some good.

Dan Schawbel:
Yeah. The best way to take stock of how you're spending your time using technology is to use Moment app or rescuetime.com and they'll help you better understand how you're spending your time on apps and websites. And if you see that you're spending too much time on a certain app or a website, it's an indicator that you might wanna reallocate that time to more personal communication.

Bobbi Rebell:
And one way to be a little more personal in your communication, but also use technology, and this is number four, you wanna talk to us about video conferencing, because you can get a lot more from that. It's not the same as in person but it's a step in the right direction, right?

Dan Schawbel:
That's one of the great inventions of the past few decades is video conferencing because most communication is nonverbal and video conferencing allows you to not just hear someone but actually see them and how they express their emotions. And as a result you feel like you have a stronger relationship with them and you can better understand the message they're trying to get across.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think my favorite of your five tips is this one, the final one, which has to to do with using technology for the things that you can really outsource and technology is better at.

Dan Schawbel:
Let technology remove the work that you don't even wanna do. All that routine work, like making sure that you and your coworker or friend are going to the same event or birthday party, conference room at the same time so that you can be more thoughtful about the time you're spending with them when you're at that event, when you're in the conference room or celebrating someone's birthday party. And so I think that calendars and chat box and some of these newer technologies can remove the logistical work from what you have to do on a daily basis so you can spend more time doing the face to face.

Bobbi Rebell:
All good tips. Thank you so much Dan. And the final tip, of course, is to read your book, Back to Human because it has so many more incredibly ways to optimize the way that you interact with technology so it's actually supporting your life goals and making your life better and not having all of these negative effects that so many of us are fighting back against. So thank you Dan.

Dan Schawbel:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks everyone for joining us. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss anymore upcoming Financial Grownup Guides. I am very excited about some of the ones that we have planned and be in touch on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 on twitter at BobbiRebell, and of course you can always email us, we are at hello@financialgrownup.com so glad you joined us in investing in getting a little bit closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK Media production.

When financial advisor, podcast host and author Linda P Jones started trying to build wealth- she was not happy with the investment returns she was getting. So she hit the books and the lessons she learned added up to a $2 million bank account by age 39.  

In Linda's money story you will learn:

• Exactly how your ability to become a wealth heiress is already within you- and how you can make it a reality.

• The book her father gave her that changed her mindset as a young child

• Exactly how to emulate the strategy she has used of finding role models and learning their steps to success.

• How she made $2 million by the age of 39

In Linda’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why saving can be detrimental to building wealth.

• The most important indicator to watch when you are investing.

In Linda's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why she focuses more on what she does with her money than how much she makes.

In My Take you will learn:

• The one thing you can do to make sure you don't hold yourself back, even if you are in a job that seems hopeless.

• The benefits of doing an end-of-year assessment of where your money actually is

Episode Links:

• Check out Linda's website - www.lindapjones.com

• Link to her book on Amazon - You're Already a Wealth Heiress

• Linda's Be Wealthy and Smart podcast

• Link to Tony Robbins book Awaken the Giant Within

• Link to Think and Grow Rich

Follow Linda!

• Instagram

• Linked In

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Linda P Jones:
The first person would have $48,000. The second person would have over a million dollars. Yet, they both earned the same amount of money. So it's really not about how much money you make. It's about making the right choices.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grownups. Okay, saving money, absolutely important. Key advice this holiday season, my friends, but you can't stop there. As you heard from our guest, financial advisor, podcast host, and author, Linda P. Jones, because, as she tells her listeners on her podcast, Be Wealthy and Smart, and readers of her book, You Are Already a Wealth Heiress, you need that compounding. In other words, you need to invest it, and you need to be smart about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, happy holidays to everyone, whatever holidays you celebrate, even if that holiday happens to be just taking a break from work around New Year's. I want to thank everyone for their support of the show. It is hard to believe it's been almost a year, and if you like the show, let me thank you. If you have a minute, post a screenshot on social media and tag me so I can do so. And if you are not already, please remember to subscribe, and thanks to everyone that leaves reviews as well. They are so meaningful to me and really the only payment that I ask if you enjoy the show. And with that, I want to share with you guys a gift from Linda P. Jones, this episode where she shares her journey to becoming a wealth heiress and how we can all create our own fortunes. I adore her, and I know you will too. Here is Linda P. Jones.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Linda P. Jones. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Linda P Jones:
Thanks, Bobbi. I'm so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Many of our listeners know you as the host of the podcast Be Wealthy and Smart, and more of them are getting to know you as the author of You're Already a Wealth Heiress, Now Think and Act like One, Six Practical Steps to Make it a Reality Now. The good news is it's selling really well. The bad news is it's sold out and on back order. Linda, what is going on?

Linda P Jones:
Well, it got a lot of popularity and is resonating with people. They love the idea that their ability for wealth is already within them, just like the small seed of a tree can grow to be a very large tree. It's already within that seed. It's a law of nature. And so I make that point that women can go from nothing to wealth, and I have lots of stories in the book about that. So that's really what I believed is that it's already within you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that, and it's so perfect that you became a successful author among your many accomplishments, which we'll talk about later, but a lot of this came from a book that your dad gave you when you were only 10 years old. Tell us your money story.

Linda P Jones:
Yeah, so my dad handed me a copy of Think and Grow Rich when I was 10, and I was already interested in financial things. And he handed me that book, and it really, Bobbie, set me off on a different course because a lot of that book is about mindset and thinking big and thinking positively and affirmations, a lot of mindset. And so it really started me in that direction, but it was really when we would get in the boat and go around the island where I grew up, Mercer Island near Seattle, we would look at these huge homes along the waterfront and say, "Look at that house. I want to live in that house. Oh my gosh. Look at that mansion." And we'd say, "How do people get rich? How did these people be able to afford this kind of a home, and how does that happen?" And it became my life's purpose to really study, "What are the steps to wealth? How did this happen?"

Linda P Jones:
I read all these autobiographies and biographies of millionaires, studying it all, and then-

Bobbi Rebell:
Like who? What other books did you read?

Linda P Jones:
Oh, everything from I mean way back to old things, like Earl Nightingale. I don't know if you remember these really old classics, way back, that came out of Think and Grow Rich, about Carnegie and Rockefeller and Aristotle Onassis. A lot of the people that were mentioned in that book, I actually went and did some more research on. Benjamin Franklin even. I mean, I went way back, and then I would also cover some of the people of the day. But I really just wanted to see what were the common points of those people, and that's when I come up with the six steps to wealth, and that's actually when I started following them and that is what enabled me to make my $2 million at age 39.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you make $2 million by age 39?

Linda P Jones:
I worked on Wall Street for a long time. After I graduated in business, I went into working for a Wall Street firm and represented investment firms, money managers. I wasn't a financial advisor. I did get my CFP and have had it all along, but I decided I didn't want to work with individual clients. I wanted to work with the people who actually invested the money and, again, find out what are they doing to be successful making this money grow? I realized my money wasn't compounding fast enough.

Linda P Jones:
The mutual funds were working fine. I started investing in real estate and got my compounding rate up to about 15% a year buying real estate with partners and doing flips, and this is years ago. This is a long time ago. That market eventually dried up because a lot of that came out of a banking crisis, and when the economy recovered, a lot of the opportunities to buy low really disappeared. And so I thought, "Okay, now what am I going to do because this is ending, and I need to find something else?"

Linda P Jones:
Well, back to the stock market. It started going up. In a particular year, it went up about 30%, and I thought, "Well, gosh, no flipping houses, no dealing with contractors, realtors, paying commissions, cleaning toilets, anything like that. That sounds like it could be a much better way to invest." I thought, "Well, maybe I can learn how to invest in stocks." So I got this book called How to Make Money in Stocks by William J. O'Neil. Because of my background in the financial world already, I had a lot of knowledge to build on, and I was able to teach myself through trial and error how to invest in individual stocks, and I was investing in a time that was the technology time, technology bubble, internet bubble, what I call bubbles and cycles where you can really find where is the fast compounding place of the particular day, of a particular year, or few years-

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were trading? You were really trading?

Linda P Jones:
I was not trading, actually. I was buying and holding, but I was identifying companies that would be the winners of the future and identifying them pretty early on.

Bobbi Rebell:
So doing a lot of individual stock research.

Linda P Jones:
Correct. Yes. And so that is how I grew my investment account to $2 million.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, congratulations, and here you are now sharing that knowledge with so many people. What is the takeaway from this for our listeners?

Linda P Jones:
Well, I think you have to start getting obsessed with compounding. I think a lot of financial experts are barking up the wrong tree in a way because they're very focused on being frugal, and they're trying to save their way to wealth. And that's very difficult to do because you have to make a lot of money in order to be able to save enough to be financially independent. The reality is most people are going to become financial independent through compounding and through their investments. And so if you get really good at investing and get really focused on your compounding rate, that's going to serve you much better than trying to save a few pennies here or there, in my opinion.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that brings us into your everyday money tip.

Linda P Jones:
Yeah, so my everyday money tip is that it doesn't matter how much you're making as much as it matters what you do with your money, the decisions that you make, the way that you invest your money. And let me give you an example, Bobbi. So let's say there's two people, and they each earn $40,000 a year, which by today's standards is an average to modest income. But let's say they make very different choices with their money. One person saves the average savings rate in the US, which is 2.8%. That's $1,120 a year for a total of $33,600 saved over 30 years. If they put that into their bank account and earn 2% annually over 30 years, their lifetime, let's say, their money will grow to about $48,000.

Linda P Jones:
Let's say the other person earning $40,000 a year is a better saver. They save $5,500 a year, which is the maximum you're allowed to put into your IRA if you're under age 50. You can save more if you're over 50. And they earn 10% a year in a long-term stock market portfolio, and they're able to do that for 30 years. That person's money will grow to over a million dollars.

Linda P Jones:
So, to summarize, the first person would have $48,000. The second person would have over a million dollars. Yet, they both earned the same amount of money. So it's really not about how much money you make. It's about making the right choices, decisions, and investing well so that you can achieve financial freedom.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. The ultimate mistake that people make is they save money rather than invest it. If you have it, once you have your emergency fund, it's really important that it not just sit in a savings account because you're waiting for, for example, the right time to invest it or something like that. It's a great point that you make. And you make a lot of great points like that in your book. So let's talk about your book. It has a fabulous title. You Are Already a Wealth Heiress. I feel better just hearing that, Linda.

Linda P Jones:
Well, you are already a wealth heiress. It's already within you, as I said, and you're already the bright, successful, confident person. There's one within you. You don't have to have a brain transplant. You don't have to have some magic spell put upon you. It's already within you, just like that little seed grows into a big tree. It's a law of nature. And so in the book, I talk about a woman who was basically destitute in China, no education, was responsible for her family, worked in a factory, made very little money, and eventually became the richest woman in the world. And that was not because some exterior force came and did something to her. That was within her all along. And so I just want to encourage people that you do have financial brilliance within you already. You just have to develop it, learn, get some knowledge, and take action.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you share that three times a week on your podcast, Be Wealthy and Smart, which I am a new fan of and obsessed with. And Linda, your podcast is in 181 countries. You've had more than two million downloads, and now you're expanding into video.

Linda P Jones:
We are. We're doing Wealth Heiress TV on YouTube. There were a lot of people that wanted the video format, and I felt I could reach a completely different audience on video. My Be Wealthy and Smart podcast is also on YouTube, so it plays to both, but I really wanted to have a video component where I could see people, they could see me. I guess I can't see them, but they can see me, and I just felt like we could do some fun things. We could go on trips together. I could take them places with me. I could show them wealth-building ideas in a different way. So it's going to be something that will evolve over time. Right now, I'm in the basics, but I hope to expand it over time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, it is all a gift, and thank you so much for all of it. Where can people find you? Give me all your social handles and all that good stuff.

Linda P Jones:
Well, let's see. They can find all of my podcasts at LindaPJones.com/podcasts. They can, of course, find Be Wealthy and Smart on iTunes or Stitcher Radio, wherever podcasts are. They can find my Instagram page, which has wealth tips twice a day at Instagram.com/LindaPJones and as well as Twitter, Linda P. Jones and on Facebook Linda P. Jones fan page.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. You are one busy lady. Thank you for it all, Linda.

Linda P Jones:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
The first thing I want to talk about may catch some of you off guard, and that is Linda's offhand comment, you may have even missed it, about cleaning toilets. Financial grownup tip number one, do not let any job or wherever you start in life hold you back. For those of you who read my book, How to be a Financial Grownup, you may have noticed a story in the book from a guy who also, by the way, contributed the foreword, named Tony Robbins. You know what he did before he was Tony Robbins? Well, he was a janitor. He cleaned toilets. Also, he was broke and from a really dysfunctional family and so on. If Tony Robbins can create his own wealth dynasty, so can you. Go read Linda's book, and while you're at it, check out Awaken the Giant Within. That's one of Tony's books that I love.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, do an end-of-year assessment of where your money actually is. Sometimes we save it and we forget it, and it's not actually invested in something that is going to grow. Make sure that your money is where you think it is. Sitting in an investment account is not the same as actually being invested in, for example, a stock, a mutual fund, an ETF, whatever is right for you. Make sure it actually got there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks everyone for your time. I value it, and this is why we keep the episodes short. If you value this podcast, please help it grow by doing all the things, rate, review, subscribe, and definitely share it in social media. Be in touch [inaudible 00:14:25] on Instagram. I am @BobbiRebell1 on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and you can always email us your suggestions at hello@financialgrownup.com. That includes guest suggestions. By the way, if you enjoyed this episode with Derek and want to see more people like him, send us some ideas. We'll see what we can do. And of course, tell your friends so we can keep spreading the word about the podcast, and let's all thank Linda P. Jones for such great advice helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK Media production.

Soon after Christine Armstrong’s husband took a company buyout and launched a family vacation business, the executive and new mother found herself in an intolerable job situation and quit to start her own business- resulting in a double dose the challenges of startup life. 

In Christine's money story you will learn:

• Being miserable in your job isn't worth the money

• Why Christine and her husband went from having two good paying jobs to not having any set income to rely on and how they made it work

• By being curious how other parents were balancing work life and home life, she started interviewing them, which led to the inspiration of her book - The Mother Of All Jobs

In Christine’s money lesson you will learn:

• How little you can spend when you really put your mind to it

• Be conscious of how much you are spending on childcare and figure out a way to best balance that expense with your work life

In Christine's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How to be more eco-friendly with your gifting over the holidays, and save money

• How to teach your children the benefits of gifting second hand goods and why they should be proud of it and not hide it

• Where to find the best high quality second hand goods for yourself, and for gifting

In My Take you will learn:

• Don’t spend the time stressing about the money. It is gone. Move on psychologically and just do better next time

• Keep your fixed costs low

Episode Links

Check out Christine's website - www.christinearmstrong.com
Link to buy Christine's book on Amazon - Mother Of All Jobs
Link to Ebay.com

Follow Christine!

• Linked In

• Twitter

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Christine:
What we were astonished by, having gone in a really short space of time from two corporate incomes to nothing, was how much spending you could just strip out overnight. We just cleared everything. We cut television packages, gym memberships, old insurance policies. We just scaled everything right back.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, have you ever heard the acronym DINKS? D-I-N-K-S. Double income, no kids, usually used in the context of couples that have a capital F for fabulous lifestyle. How about if that was now double startup, two kids. That is where Christine Armstrong, author of The Mother of All Jobs, and her husband found themselves, and let me tell you, there was drama with a capital D. Spoiler alert though, they survived, but they lived to tell the tale and we get to benefit.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone, if you are new, so glad you found us. If you have a sec, do a screenshot and post it on social media, make sure you tag me so I can welcome you personally to our Financial Grownup community. The show stays around fifteen minutes because you're busy, but feel free to binge listen to a few if you have a little more time. We now have a library of more than 100 amazing high achievers sharing their stories and lessons.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's get right to it. Here is Christine Armstrong. Hey Christine Armstrong, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Christine:
Thanks so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations on you're new in the US book. It's already been a huge hit in the UK where you are called, The Mother of All Jobs. How to have children and a career and stay sane-ish. Emphases on the ish, right?

Christine:
Yeah, totally.

Bobbi Rebell:
You have managed to stay sane in an extraordinary circumstance where both you and your husband found yourself in startup mode. Tell us your money story.

Christine:
So I had a lovely job at an advertising agency and I traveled all over the world and presented work. When I had a baby, I came back to the ad agency, but the boss had changed and they were offering me different terms and I kind of panicked and I took another job, which wasn't a great fit for me. It was a really heavy [inaudible 00:02:56] culture and I was really kinda stressed. It wasn't a great place for me anyway, but it particularly wasn't a great place with a small baby.

Christine:
But I felt I couldn't leave because while I had been on maternity leave, my husband, who'd been eighteen years at his company, was offered a big package to leave and he was like "Look, I really wanna take it, I wanna startup this business." I was like "Okay, yeah. That'll be fine, great idea."

Bobbi Rebell:
Because you would have the steady income.

Christine:
Right, 'cause I was just gonna go back to my job. It never occurred to me that I would want to stop or do less work. That kind of career was what I did. My job at the ad agency, they were really senior women who had families, and that seemed to be what they had done and it was fine.

Christine:
So we found ourselves in a situation where I was really unhappy at work and he was with the startup, which is a travel company called [inaudible 00:03:40] as you know with a startup, you don't make money immediately, so he wasn't making money, but we still needed quite a lot of childcare, because also, he wasn't home being just a parent and I was working really hard, but quite frustrated. So, I kind of was looking for answers in what I thought I could do to kinda make things better. I decided that I would have another baby.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Christine:
Of course.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because that will solve everything.

Christine:
In my mind ... you know, they say when you are really stressed, you start making really bad decisions and you can only see things in black and white. I was just like, I got to get out of here and I've got to take time to think, so I had another baby, which was great, but it obviously didn't solve my problems at work. Then I went back to work and it was still really, really difficult. So I decided to go and interview women about how they made it work, and some men as well. That was really where the book came about.

Christine:
During this process of interviewing these amazing people and understanding what I needed to do, I had lunch with a really old friend who's a therapist. We were in this café and I just talked at her for 45 minutes. She looked at me and she said "Look darling, just go. Go back to the office, get your coat and go home." I said "You're insane. I've got a mortgage, I've got childcare, [inaudible 00:04:58] is making no money." She's like "Yeah, but it'll be fine, just give it to the universe." I'm laughing at the word-

Bobbi Rebell:
The universe does not pay your bills.

Christine:
No, no. So, I didn't take her advice. I didn't literally go back to the office and resign, but I went home that evening, I said to my husband "Jill says I should resign" and he says "Yeah, I think you should, you're so unhappy, it'll be fine." So I did and then ... in the UK, you get three months notice. So I had three months of pay, so I kind of had three months to sort things out. During that period, we booked an amazing trip of a lifetime to go visit my sister in Thailand.

Christine:
Basically, the first thing I did with no income whatsoever was get on a plane to Thailand and go stay in five star hotels, but my sister had booked me where breakfast costs like $50 a person. Chris and I just kind of got fits of hysterical giggles and weren't really sure what to do or how to make it stop, because it was all pre-planned. Chris was like "Okay, the only thing we can do is just to enjoy it and then we'll deal with stuff when we get back."

Bobbi Rebell:
So basically, so now, you're gonna start your own business as an author, because you've got this book in progress. Your husband is at this business, which spoiler alert, is doing great now, but was at its early stages and you're living a lifestyle that needs two incomes from steady jobs to support.

Christine:
Well, I would say that that was our saving grace actually. I think we were really fortunate that my husband bought a house a long time ago, so actually, when we came back from Thailand and were like "Okay, let's just clear the decks. We've gotta lose every piece of spending that we have that is not essential." What we were astonished by, having gone in a really short space of time, from two corporate incomes to nothing, was how much spending you could just strip out overnight. We just cleared everything. We cut television packages, gym memberships, old insurance policies. We just scaled everything right back. What we were astounded by, we really worked together on it, we were really focused on it. We went from shopping in the equivalent of Whole Foods to the discount aisle at the discount supermarket.

Christine:
We were just astonished actually how little you could spend when you really, really put your minds to it. Having been massively complacent, it has to be sad. So, we just stripped out all spending and twiddled everything back and basically rebuilt from there. So I didn't immediately start a business. I freelanced for a while and then I met a guy called Robert Phillips who had it in his mind an idea of a consultancy he wanted to set up and was really inspirational.

Christine:
I joined up with a group of people and we started a consultancy that's been really successful and it's given us a great and stable income and allowed us to compensate. But it really took nearly a year for us to sort all of that out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Christine:
So my takeaway, the thing that Chris and I have taken a run through our lives is to keep your fixed cost as low as you can, so that you've always got the flexibility to [inaudible 00:07:55]. We were saved by the fact that we didn't have an expensive car policy, we didn't have kids who have expensive childcare, we don't have kids in expensive schools now. We keep the baseline really low so that we can scale up or down according to what we've got available.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what you learned really, is that a lot of these expenses that were just part of your life, you weren't really thinking about. It was pretty easy to just say goodbye to them.

Christine:
It really was. I do totally take responsibility for having previously been compulsive, but we both had good jobs, we both got promoted pretty regularly, our incomes have got bigger and we just really assumed that they would just continue to get bigger. We just really were very thoughtless about A, the impact of childcare and how much money that is. And B, how you often also lose one or half a salary and we managed to lose two salaries, which I think was quite an achievement when you have kids.

Christine:
I think my other big learning is ... as well as keeping your expenses as low as they can be in terms of core expenses, but also to be really thoughtful about what your childcare costs are gonna be and how you can organize work when you've got kids.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. Another big expense with children is the holiday season and all this gift giving that goes on, which brings us to your everyday money tip.

Christine:
Yeah, I'm really interested in the circular economy which is reusing things and not keeping ... making new stuff. I really try and use second buy, second hand things, whether it's books, toys, looking on Ebay for things and getting the kids used to the idea that a gift is a gift, even if it's secondhand. I think that you can still give things to people they really care about, without spending as much money as you might have done.

Bobbi Rebell:
And not hiding the fact that it is secondhand, actually making that part of the conversation.

Christine:
Yeah, absolutely. I think being proud of it, you know, mixing something up. My husband's great at re-painting stuff or making it look better and being really proud of it and saying "I found this in a secondhand shop and I thought you'd really like it" that's okay.

Christine:
What I find is that strangely, people are quite excited that you went through the trouble to go look for it for them and if you fixed it up and made it look nice, than great. Embrace it, enjoy it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well one thing that I enjoyed was your book which is called The Mother of All Jobs. How to have children and a career and stay sane-ish. And as I joked at the beginning, emphasis on the ish. One of the great things about it, is that it's very real. You have some very relatable and specific stories. You did a lot of work interviewing people here.

Christine:
I did. I started off with those interviews I mentioned with really senior women who were very high fly. Then, I kind of went for the book to lots of really, really ordinary women, doing ordinary jobs who are never gonna be Chief Exec. Probably never gonna be on the board and just working to pay their bills, basically. To really understand the dynamics of their relationship, their kids, schools and just try to figure out how it all works together and how their solving problems and what works and what doesn't.

Christine:
There are no quick fixes, right? You look at each [inaudible 00:10:55], you go "What can I take from that that's useful? What's relevant to me right now?" That's the way it's set up.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the book has said it really smartly, in that it is bite-sized. You could read the whole thing, of course, but you could read it little by little and there are sections, breakout sections that are titled "If you are too tired and read the above" which kind of gives us the executive summary, because you're realistic about how busy parents schedules are.

Christine:
That's good also, 'cause I've got fifteen books on my bedside table and I wish some of them had a [crosstalk 00:11:26] section I could read as well. So yeah, it was a reflection of the experience and I read two pages in the evening after putting all the kids to bed and everything, then I fall asleep and I don't read anything else.

Christine:
Yeah, it was so that if people are skipping through it, they could just pick out some bits and come back to something later.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you are wonderful, as is your book. Tell us more about how listeners can find out more about you, the book and of course, following you on social media.

Christine:
So, I'm a Twitter person, and that's C ARMSTRTONG LD which stands for London and I have a website at ChristineArmstrong.com and I look forward to hearing from your listeners.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks Christine.

Christine:
Perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay friends. First, have you ever heard of something called the sunken cost theory? Financial grownup tip number one, sometimes, you pay for something and then, you can't get out of it. You are stuck and the money is gone. Like Christine and her husband's big luxury trip to Thailand. Don't spend your time stressing about the money, 'cause it's already bye-bye. It's gone. Move on psychologically, do better next time, but most of all, enjoy what you spent the money on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, keep those fixed costs low. Part of the reason that the panic attacks were kept in check for the couple was that they had a stable place to live. They own their home and they kept their overhead low because of that, so that they didn't have to worry about all of these bills that they were stuck with, that they couldn't do anything about. They were able to make changes in the high cost that they did have because, they were discretionary. Sure, you can go back and say they shouldn't, coulda, woulda, whatever, but ... the reality is, that when the you know what hit the fan, they were able to make some choices that didn't even seem that tough at the time. It's interesting that they never really went back to a lot of those discretionary expenses, even when they could, in theory afford them again, because their perspective had changed.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can go back now, of course and look at what you have that's discretionary and cut back, probably a good idea for most of us. But at least go and do an analysis of what you have that is fixed that you could not get rid of in this kind of unexpected situation where you suddenly have no income and two kids and businesses with bright futures, but still not any real, meaningful cashflow temporarily. Think about what you would do if you were in their situation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, I hope this episode with the great Christine Armstrong gave you guys some perspective on your money and your life. Let me know your takeaways and if maybe your making some changes because of what you heard from Christine. On Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1 on Twitter @BobbiRebell and big thank yous for leaving reviews, it helps others discover the show, as does just simply telling a friend. Thank you so much, you have no idea. Thank you so much to those of you who do all these things and who subscribe and spread the word. It is truly so appreciated. We put so much work into this show and your feedback is priceless. Of course, also priceless, is the advice we got from Christine Armstrong that helped us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

After a nasty split from his 11-year business partners at the Art of Charm podcast, Jordan Harbinger found himself putting his own networking lessons to work as he started a new business from scratch with the Jordan Harbinger show and the Advanced Human Dynamics  platform.

Jordan's money story:

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, so it was supposed to be an amicable split. I got sick of being the dating guy, because I'm pushing forty, and I'm married, and I'm in a healthy relationship, and I just wasn't interested in that anymore. And a lot of the shows that I was doing were interviews with athletes, and generals, and all these really high-profile people, and they were always shocked, like 'oh, this is what this podcast is about?'

Bobbi Rebell:
Well the show was evolving, with you.

Jordan Harbinger:
The show was evolving with me. And my business partners were not super happy about that, and so they decided that we were going to split, and then when they proposed a split, we all agreed on it, and then later on, they decided, 'actually, we're not going to give you anything,' because ... I think that they had ... well it's only one guy, really ... I think he had hoped that I wouldn't leave, because I was doing all of the stuff that they needed to do to generate revenue.

Jordan Harbinger:
And so, I think he really, kind of had a little bit of an ego melt-down.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you say they didn't give you, is this about money? That he didn't give you the money, the buy-out?

Jordan Harbinger:
Right, I still own a third of the company.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Jordan Harbinger:
But I'm locked out of everything. So instead of fighting for that, I said, you know what? I'm just going to start over. So I started my show, social media, email list, website, all from scratch.

Bobbi Rebell:
For people that don't know, can you talk a little bit about those assets, the value, and how they're created and what it takes to rebuild it?

Jordan Harbinger:
Sure. So, I had, essentially, created social media, Twitter accounts, since 2008 or whatever. An email list that had over, at that point, hundreds of thousands of people on it. A website that was getting millions of visits per month, and shows that were getting millions of downloads per month. And then, when all that was locked, I just basically ... I mean I literally created a new account on Twitter, called friends and said, 'hey man, can you whip up a website?' Put an email collection plug-in, in there, that was from a friend, Noah Kagan over at sumo dot com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh I love Noah Kagan, he's terrific.

Jordan Harbinger:
He's great. Yeah. And so, I started The Jordan Harbinger from episode one, after doing the other show for eleven years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a way to make people aware of this, other than, you're suddenly not on this show? And they're just being silent about it?

Jordan Harbinger:
No, there was no way for me to tell anyone. The listeners all had to come and look for me. And that's actually what happened.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where does this stand now? I mean, is there any recourse when this happens. Because people ... it's unusual, but it's sort of not.

Jordan Harbinger:
It's actually not that unusual, yeah. Now that I'm telling my split story everywhere, almost every successful entrepreneur is like, 'oh yeah, this happened to me a while ago,' or 'that happened to me a while ago, and I've never been happier.' It's really, really interesting to see. And, I've actually never been happier, myself, either. It's strange, you never realize how toxic environments are until you're out of them, because, it's that whole boiling frog thing, right? If they turn the temperature up by a notch every year, you're there for ten years, you don't realize you're on some sort of crazy funhouse ... funhouse is not the right word, a funhouse mirror-covered crazy-house, more like.

So when you get out of there, you go, 'oh! This is how normal people treat each other on teams, and this is how people celebrate wins together, and this is how people reinvest in a company.' Instead of causing stress, and blowing it. And so, it's actually just really, really been nice, for me, to pull the plug and start over. It's been rough, but it was absolutely worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's a human element to this. So you lost ... your website, you lost your branding, you lost your email list in that. But, you've took humans with you. Tell us about that.

Jordan Harbinger:
When everything hit the fan and fell apart, what I did is I made a list of people I wanted to call, and the first ten or twelve phone calls that I made were to people I know would say yes to helping me. CEOs and other entrepreneurs, and people that were really, really great to me, in the past. And they said, 'yeah, we're going to help you!' So I had this massive support network. I went on over a hundred other podcasts this year, along, well over that, actually, at this point. And rebuilt the show up to millions of downloads a month, from zero, in February. And now it's better than ever.

And it's just been so strange, because, oh! I also took a lot of the team with me. Because when I left, a lot of the other team, that was at the old company, was like, 'well, we came to work with you, man.' So they all left. And I said, 'I can only pay you half of what you're worth for the next foreseeable future,' and they said that's fine. So that's what happened, and I've made them whole since, but that was a massive vote of confidence.

Because all of this qualified staff left the old company. They all bounced.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well they followed you, more than they left. They went to where they saw the opportunity, and that's human nature.

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, that's true. I mean, I still have my production team, my [inaudible 00:08:14] team, everything. Everybody came with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, probably, many of your listeners are gradually migrating over, if they have not already. And because you have adjusted your format, and constantly evolve it, that's probably expanding what your opportunity is, and they see that.

Jordan Harbinger:
Exactly. There's been a lot of people that have said, 'oh, I didn't even know about the old show.' And I'm like, that's good. That's what I like to hear. Because, I don't necessarily just want to bring the same crowd, from the last show. There's great listeners from the last one, but The Jordan Harbinger Show is just a much better interview. It's a much more interesting project for everyone involved, and I've done a lot of the things that we used to do in the old company, like try to run live events, and do all this, and do all that. And I've realized, I actually don't like doing it.

So, it's pretty fun to just be on my own.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you move past something like this? Or do you not? Do you just work it into your life, and use it as part of who you are now?

Jordan Harbinger:
You work it into your life and use it as a part of who you are now. And granted, look, this is ten months since this thing. The lawsuit is still in full swing. So, it's not exactly, something I'm going to forget about this year, or probably even next year. But, that's all fine and good, I mean, this is trial by fire in a lot of ways. And I've certainly been through worse with less resources. Losing a business is a problem, but it's not losing a kid, it's not losing a spouse.

In fact, I look at it this way ... this isn't just rationalization either ... when I look at this, I think, if the deal that I had signed with the old company, had actually been honored, I would have been forced to gradually disentangle with them, over the period of three years. I would have had to promote their stuff, their products, the low quality stuff that was coming out now, I would have had to promote on my new show.

Instead, since they didn't honor anything, I have no non-compete, I can do whatever I want, I can make money however I want to do it. I can do anything in any niche, they have no say in anything. I can run any ads that I want and I don't owe them anything. In fact, they owe me thirty-three percent of the company share value.

So, it really ended up being like, the dumbest thing they possibly could have done. And for me, it was really scary, and then it turned out to be the best possible thing that could have happened.

Jordan’s money lesson:

I'm here to tell you, dig the well before you get thirsty. Because, if you try, when this stuff all happens to you, to reach out to everyone, and you're going, 'hey, look, I'm having a really hard time,' some people will be understanding. But a lot of people will be like, 'we haven't spoken in two, or five years, or whatever it is. I don't know what you want me to do. Best of luck.' Right?

But, since I'd done such a job ... I won't say great job, but such A job ... building and maintaining network connections, giving value, offering people things that can help them, without the expectation of getting something in return, when I did need help, people were coming out of the woodwork.

I mean, it was just, people I didn't even know were like, 'hey, heard what happened. Let me know if you want to come on my show and tell the story.' 'Hey, can I write an article about this for Ink?'

Jordan's everyday money tip:

I see a lot of people doing things like, spending ninety minutes, round-trip, driving to this produce farm, because they get cheaper stuff. And look, maybe you like organic produce from that farm, that's fine. But I see a lot of people doing really silly things to save money. Little, I wouldn't say scams, because they don't elevate that far, but I'm going to move the car eighty-five times, instead of renting a parking spot in my building in San Francisco. I mean I see stuff like this.

And they're lucky to break even on the cost of parking tickets at the end of the month, let alone all the time they spent, getting up at 5 AM so they can move their car, or driving around for twenty minutes, and then going back to sleep. I mean it's ridiculous, right? Pathological in some people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yes.

Jordan Harbinger:
But we like to focus on the big wins. And when I say that, what I mean is, the same people that will not rent the parking space in their building, in the city, so that they can park, and will drive around all day looking for parking spaces? These are the same people who will often keep credit card debt, so that their credit score takes a little bit of a ding, and then when they go to buy a house, they get a lower ... I should say higher ... interest rate, on that mortgage, and it ends up costing them sixty-eight thousand dollars. Right?

So we have to be really careful and focus on the big wins.

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Show up. Guys, we edit these podcasts, because, as you know, I really value your time. I want to keep them to around fifteen minutes. So, sometimes those edits are pretty severe. But we also edit out things, just to make the podcast better, not just for time. And in this case, we cut out a lot of Jordan coughing, and fighting to sound his best, for this interview.

Not that you would notice, he's a pro.

Jordan was battling a cold, and probably, at some level, exhaustion. He had just returned from a big speaking engagement, and was really not feeling well. But Jordan showed up. The man has done over one hundred podcasts promoting his new venture, not to mention, keeping to an aggressive appearance schedule, and other projects, building out his new business.

The guy shows up, and he works hard. No pity party, no year off, finding himself, blah blah blah. Jordan Harbinger works, and that is why his business is, and will continue to, grow, exponentially.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Did I ever tell you guys I was married in my 20s, and got a divorce? And believe me, I was the one that always said I did not believe in divorce. But it happened. The best thing I did, was give stuff up, because you know what? You can get it back, or you know what? You really don't need whatever stuff you're fighting over, in the end.

So if you have a split, business or personal, of course, fight for what is yours, to some degree. But eye on the prize. Be like Jordan and move on. Take the long road, and most of all, get to work building your new life, or your new business. Do not let your ex walk all over you, but don't get stuck fighting for some material item, or every last cent, so much so, that you get caught up in your past, and don't move forward.

Bobbi and Jordan also talk about:

• How Noah Kagan was instrumental in helping to get Jordan's business off the ground. To learn more about Noah, check out his website here - https://okdork.com/about/

Check out Jordan's website - www.jordanharbinger.com
Here is a link to his course we mentioned - https://www.jordanharbinger.com/course

Follow Jordan!

• Instagram

• Linked In

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Special guest co-host Manisha Thakor of the True WELLth podcast joins Bobbi to share ways to be not just wealthy but well-thy in 2019. 

The College Investor’s Robert Farrington loved his job at Target. He was also well paid. But he loved his family more. So he made the tough decision to leave and focus full-time on the side hustle that was already throwing off even more income. 

In Robert’s money story you will learn:

-The value of time and how Robert made the decision to leave a job he loved in order to spend more time with him family

-How Robert grew his side hustle from no income into his full-time business

-Advice on how to leave a job on great terms

In Robert’s money lesson you will learn:

-His take on the benefits of growing a side hustle

-The specific obstacles Robert prepared for before taking the lead in his business

In Robert’s every day money tip you will learn:

-The truth behind retail shopping myths

-Quick tips on saving money while grocery shopping

-The number one Black Friday tip

Bobbi and Robert also talk about:

-Where the idea for his website started

-His regrets about leaving his job

-The College Investor and the resources offered online

-The College Investor 6 minute audio show on Apple Music

In My Take you will learn

-How to be honest with employers about having a side hustle - while not oversharing

-How spending time with family during the holidays can be more valuable than rushing out for Black Friday Deals

 

EPISODE LINKS:

Follow Robert!!

Instagram @thecollegeinvestor

Youtube @TheCollegeInvestor

Linkedin Robert Farrington

Listen to The College Investor Podcast https://apple.co/2CqMuC3 

Learn more on The College Investor website https://thecollegeinvestor.com/ 

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Robert Farrington:
Am I really able to say that I value the time I spend with my family and stuff when I'm missing Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and weekends and not able to go to birthday parties?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, get ready for an episode not really about money, but about living a rich life with your family. It's about the price of your time and the value of your time, and for many of us, not all time is created equal. Target store manager, Robert Farrington, had the money, but he wanted the time. Not just any time. Nights, weekends, and holidays, specifically, the times that most of us get to be with our families, but in retail, not so much. Fortunately, he had something else going on. More on that in a sec.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, a quick welcome to our new listeners and to our returning ones. If you like the show, take a screen grab, share it on social. Then subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes, and make sure that you have it set in the settings for automatic download. With that, let us get to Robert Farrington's story. He now runs a little site. It's actually a really big deal website called The College Investor. And for you early stage entrepreneurs, it was a side hustle with literally zero income. Yes, zero income, no money coming in for the first two years, but that was a while back. He'll tell you more about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, it is his full-time business and it is growing. You're going to love this story. Here is, the College Investor. It's Robert Farrington.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Robert Farrington. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Robert Farrington:
Hey. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are ... And this is trademarked, my friends. You are America's student loan debt expert. You're also the founder and editor of The College Investor, so you have a lot of knowledge to share with us.

Robert Farrington:
Whew. You kind of scare me when you say it all, but yeah. I'm excited to share with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us a quick summary of what The College Investor is and then we're going to move into your money story.

Robert Farrington:
Sounds great. So, The College Investor was started by me as a side hustle in college, because I wanted to share my thoughts on how to invest. But everybody that I knew was like, "That's cool Robert, but I have student loans and other things and I just can't get there yet."

Robert Farrington:
So over the last few years, we've kind of incorporated more about getting out of student loan debt, getting out of debt in general, and how to build wealth so you can start investing even in your early 20s, or in college, so that you can build wealth and set those financial footprints in motion for your future.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, this is where it gets really cool and exciting, because you've been working on this for a very long time. You are married. You have two young children, the oldest one going into kindergarten. You were full time at Target until a year ago and this was your side hustle. And then you were able to make the decision to flip the switch and take your side hustle full time. And that's your money story. Tell us more Robert.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. So about three years ago, I started earning more than my Target job. You know, we were just stashing the money away and didn't really have any plans to leave because you have to understand, I have loved working at Target. It was a great company to work for. I had been there a long time. I was comfortable there. I was probably one of the top performers in my area, so life was really good at Target. But there is one big drawback about working in retail and that is that you have to work nights and weekends, and holidays.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even if you were the manager by then. You were pretty senior.

Robert Farrington:
Right, but I also believe in being a leader, so I would still work my weekends with my team. I would work a night a week with my team and then as the leader, I definitely had to be there on Black Friday and throughout the holiday season. It meant having Thanksgiving lunch at like 12:00 and then going to work at 2:00 in the afternoon on Thanksgiving day, so that we're ready to go when the store opens.

Robert Farrington:
That really became hard as my kids were getting older.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so tell me about the conversation that you had with your wife when this decision was made.

Robert Farrington:
It really was a series of decisions. First off, it was like, this is a cool side hustle. Let's not change anything. And then it was like, wow this is really becoming more of a thing and we can live off this business income on the side. And you don't need to work there. Finally, I really had to think about what we valued as a family. So my wife and I were talking and you hear these things like, "Show me your money and show me your time, and it will tell you what you value." So, am I really able to say that I value the time I spend with my family and stuff, when I'm missing Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and weekends, and not able to go to birthday parties.

Robert Farrington:
So, it was really really hard to leave something I was so comfortable with, but at the same time I also wasn't living my truth in that I wasn't necessarily doing exactly what I valued. And we could afford it. I could afford the life I wanted to, and said that I wanted to. And that really was a big part of our conversation with my wife.

Robert Farrington:
The second thing is, is contingency plans. We always had these conversations. I run an online business, so it's like, what happens if the internet goes out tomorrow? Right? Are we going to be financially okay if suddenly there is no income stream. So, it really was about planning and making sure we had enough saved and if the internet did stop tomorrow and I left my day job, would we be okay financially? And we kind of checked all these boxes and once those were all yeses, it was setting a timeline up for when does it make the most sense to leave?

Bobbi Rebell:
They knew about the side hustle right?

Robert Farrington:
It was one of those things. I never hid it, but I was never fully overt about it. It had been on my LinkedIn profile for a decade. My peers, every now and then, I'd get student loan questions from my peers. They'd be like, "I'm trying to pay off my student loans. Can you help me?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, but did the Target management know that this was producing more income than they were paying you?

Robert Farrington:
I never shared that, so I'm 99% sure that they had no idea. In fact, I know most of them didn't because when I left and afterwards, they had a little going away party for me and like, "We wish you the best of luck. We hope this all works well for you."

Bobbi Rebell:
So they had no idea?

Robert Farrington:
Yeah, and I never hid that. So that's the interesting thing. If no one asked, I was very candid. I've been candid even for the last seven, eight years online. On different podcasts and interviews and stuff, so it's out there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did they ever think maybe we should pay him more? If he can make more from a blog, maybe we're underpaying him? Was there any kind of conversation like that, ever?

Robert Farrington:
It's hard, because I was extremely well paid. It was a nice six-figure ... I don't think people realize what you make at Target, but I was, with my bonuses and stuff, I was probably making about $180,000/year when I left.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So, let's go back to quitting. So, how did you actually quit?

Robert Farrington:
So, I really did think about this and planned it out. Because I also, like I said, I wanted to leave on really good terms. I didn't want to burn any bridges, so I actually, my wife and I finalized our plans for leaving in February, or March of last year. We said we're going to leave in September. And I thought this was very respectful from the workload that was going on at Target, but it was also enough time that they could have enough leeway to have everything in place before the holiday season.

Robert Farrington:
I decided that we're going to give a month notice, so I actually told my boss in August. And I probably gave about five and a half, six weeks notice. But I was fully ... You hear these horror stories like, if they were going to walk me out that day or something crazy, I was fully prepared to leave that day. But I was going to be very respectful, and so when my boss came in August, I would say she comes like once or twice a month. When she came in, I just pulled her into my office and said, "I have something really important to share with you." She had no idea what was coming. I said, "Hey. So I have some big changes I want to tell you. I am going to be resigning and I'm going to be pursuing my own endeavors outside of Target. Spending more time with my family."

Robert Farrington:
And the look of shock, she actually texted me like four hours later. So I told her at probably 4:00 in the afternoon, so this was like 8:00 at night. She's like, "I cannot believe this. This is crazy. I'm totally shocked." I totally caught her off guard. But I gave them, like I said, almost six weeks notice. So, I felt like I left in the most respectful and terms possible. Which I also think is the best way to possibly leave if you are going to leave.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the reaction around your store?

Robert Farrington:
Most of them were pretty excited for me. I think all my direct reports actually were much more aware of everything then anybody else above me. And so, it was less of a shock, but same thing. I'm also very diligent in how you let people know, so make sure you have a very strong hierarchy of letting my senior managers know. And then just announcing it downward. Clear communication before I even let them know. So, I don't think I let them know until about a week and a half after I let my boss know. So my boss already had some plans in place, and we were able to share some very specific plans, which I think is really important when you transition in any workplace.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there things you would do differently, looking back?

Robert Farrington:
I honestly would probably do it sooner. It's one of those things, I was so worried about all these random variables. And I probably gave an extra year or two to Target. And like I said, it's a great company but at the same time, what could I have done in those extra year or two when I could have left longer. That's the only real regret I have.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?

Robert Farrington:
I think the big lesson is, if you grow this side hustle with your time and energy outside of work instead of watching TV shows, or doing whatever non-productive things you're probably doing outside of work, you could turn this into a full-time job that you're passionate about, you love, and it works with your schedule. So, I think it's definitely a clear path that you can actually achieve if you want to put the time and effort into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your everyday money tip. We're going to tap into your knowledge as a retail expert, having seen it all, from the grassroots level. Tell us what people can do to save money and be better shoppers at stores, not necessarily just Target, but stores like Target. What can they know about pricing, about sales, and so on?

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. Let's debunk some of these myths first. So first off, I always love these Buzzfeed articles that come out. What digits are the last ones that you know what the markdowns are?

Robert Farrington:
Well, let's talk a little bit about math. So almost every price in retail ends in 99 cents, right? So, when you mark something down half off, it's always going to end in eight. Because that's just math. And so when you mark it down 75% off, for the third time, or the second markdown, it's going to end in a four. So, these math strategies that they say are secret hacks, is really just the math of the sales. It's true.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Robert Farrington:
I think people just need to realize that. I think the best thing ... The other thing that people need to realize is that, almost every store Target included, puts the same things on sale every two weeks. So it just alternates, so if you're a regular grocery shopper, you'll notice this a lot. Especially in food, because one week it'll be Coke on sale, the next week it'll be Pepsi on sale. And then it goes back to Coke on sale. Then it goes back to Pepsi on sale. And it's the same sale. It's just goes alternating every other week. And you see this in almost every major retailer, so one, if you have really strong brand allegiance, align your shopping habits with your sale week and you'll probably find that you're going to get that same sale every time you go in because it will line up with your shopping habits.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you said you always have to work, you've always had to work the holidays and especially Black Friday. What's your number one Black Friday tip?

Robert Farrington:
The number one Black Friday tip is that all the ads come online about a month before Black Friday. So you can plan out all your shopping ahead of time. And you have to realize that the door busters at every store, there's only about 10 to maybe 50 of that item. And so, if there's one thing that you really really really really can't live without, if you're not the first 10 to 50 people in line, you're probably not going to get it. So don't waste your time going out there.

Robert Farrington:
The second thing though, that's really emerged over the last couple years is online shopping. So at the same time, a lot of these companies are trying to compete with each other and they're moving their Black Friday sales online and they're moving them on to the week before Black Friday. So you can get a lot of the same great deals online, but without even going to the store, about a week before you even shop.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk more about what's going on with The College Investor. So this is your full-time passion project, slash income, slash growing company. You've got a whole staff there now. You're managing that now. What are you priorities? Where is your growth going to come from? What can people expect and look forward to there?

Robert Farrington:
So if you want to know anything about getting out of student loan debt, and starting to invest, The College Investor has it for you. We have pretty much every topic around student loan debt covered and you know, sadly as much as I don't want this to be the growing reason for our growth, student loan debt in America is growing and it's such a problem for most people. So we have your answers. We have tools and resources that can help you. If you don't like to read, you can also listen to The College Investor audio show. It's a podcast where we change our written articles into a short digestible audio show for you because I know-

Bobbi Rebell:
You love that. Love short.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. I love that.

Robert Farrington:
Short. I mean, I think I beat you because my average show time is like six to eight minutes because we're just talking about the daily article of the day.

Bobbi Rebell:
But that's perfect. That's what people need because everyone's busy. Alright, where can people ... People can obviously reach you at The College Investor, but tell me your social channels et cetera.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. You can go to thecollegeinvestor.com. You can go to The College Investor audio show. You can find us on YouTube at The College Investor and you can find us on Instagram at The College Investor.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you Robert.

Robert Farrington:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, that pricing math that Robert thinks is so obvious to everyone, I had no clue. What about you?

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on what he had to say. Financial Grownup tip number one. If you have a side hustle, follow Robert's path and be open about it at work. You don't have to be too open. When I went to write my book, How to be a Financial Grownup, the first thing I did was tell my managers and get their okay. Don't hide things. But then also, don't work on it during your work hours and you can be open about your plans, but you don't have to share the whole big picture and all your grand plans.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. I love that Robert chose family over spending time working on the holidays. The same can be said for shopping. Before you race out to get one of those amazing, say Black Friday deals, remember that Robert said, and a lot of you know this already, there are very few available. So, you'll have to get here really early and spend a lot of time, invest a lot of time, to get it. So is saving money really worth cutting into your family time on a holiday? Maybe look online, a different day, ahead of time and set a price alert. Then, if you get that alert, you can spend five minutes buying it online and get back to being with your family. Or, maybe what you have is fine and you don't buy it at all.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before we wrap up, tell me, I want to know, what's your best retail shopping tip? DM it to me. And please, take a minute to follow me on social media. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram. bobbirebell on Twitter, and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. The website to get more information about the show, bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast and for the show notes and more about Robert and the The College Investor, go to bobbirebell.com/podcast/robertfarrington and thanks to The College Investor's Robert Farrington for bringing us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Performance coach Jen Cohen is a master at ab crunches— crunching numbers. She shares the story of how she talked her way into a job at Olive Garden before she was even old enough to work- and then reveals her secrets to eating healthier on a tight budget. 

Jennifer’s Money Story:

Thanks, Bobbi. When you asked that question, it makes you think and go back into your brain a little bit to think why someone is the way they are, subconsciously. I think it really goes back to when I was really small, four, five years old when my mom and dad did get divorced, and I guess money was quite tight. I do remember my mom, to make extra money, my mom is a psychiatric nurse, and she had a full-time job, but she had now two kids also, and it wasn't enough, so she would have these odd jobs.

Jen Cohen:
I don't remember all the details, but I do remember her working to sell stuff. She sold Mary Kay cosmetics on the side. She would also cut out pieces of the carpet in our apartment where she was selling them, and I think that vision or that imagery really stuck in my brain in a negative way. It told me right at that moment, "I don't want to be poor, or I always want to make my own money and feel financially stable and secure, not to rely on somebody else for my financial security."

Jen Cohen:
From that moment, I guess even as a small, small child, I went through life thinking of ways of having side hustles or working and doing things. When I was 12 years old, I remember bargaining and hustling with the manager of the Olive Garden down my street about working for him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, you were 12 years old, and you were working at Olive Garden?

Jen Cohen:
I was. I was a greeter. They wouldn't allow me at 12 because you're too young to get ... I wasn't allowed in the actual restaurant because it was illegal, but I negotiated my way with this guy and just begged him and just hawked him enough where he gave me a job as a greeter. I was able to open up the front door for customers when they walk in. When they first get there, the first person you see was me, and I'm like, "Hello, welcome to Olive Garden." That was really my first real legit job when I was in nine, no, seventh, eighth grade, something really ... I was young, where I remember people in my neighborhood be like coming to the restaurant and be like, "What are you doing here?" It was very odd.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it sounds like you were actually really proud to be earning money, even at that young age. You weren't embarrassed about it. You were excited.

Jen Cohen:
Oh, God. No. I loved it. I always loved having my own money. I always loved having that option, never having to ask my mom or whoever. If I wanted something, I would have it, but here's a caveat. I would never spend my money, so all of this was for me to have savings. It wasn't for me to actually buy stuff. I've never been a very materialistic person. It's really about having in my head knowing that I had that backup, having that security blanket. I would literally save everything.

Jen Cohen:
Then through high school, through college, I always had multiple jobs just so I had it where very comfortable later on, but it was never about that. I've been very rich, and I've been poor, or in the middle, but it's never been that story that's driven me. It's really about that I think one experience when I was a little girl that just has always been subconsciously in my brain where I'm driven to make and create financial security just to have it.

Jennifer’s Money Lesson:

The takeaway is, A, number one, always spend below your means, not above, just so you have that ability, and find and figure out ways to save money. There's so many ways now. You can eat cheaply. You can figure out ways. You can work out for free. You can eat for less than $7 a day. There's a lot of ways to be crafty and resourceful if you want to be.

Jennifer’s Money Tip:

People can actually be much healthier on a very restricted budget. First of all, eating canned salmon. Canned salmon is automatically wild.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't know that.

Jen Cohen:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
And wild salmon is better. That's not just a myth to charge you more at the store.

Jen Cohen:
Absolutely not. Farmed salmon has a lot of toxins and maybe a lot of mercury. It could have a lot of different things in it. That's why people say limit your fish intake to maybe once a week, twice at max.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and that wild salmon is really expensive near me.

Jen Cohen:
It's expensive everywhere, but if you buy canned salmon, just make sure you look on the can. If it says wild Alaskan, that can of salmon would be maybe $2.50 to $3 at most, and that's higher quality than salmon that you would buy that would normally cost about $14 a pound anywhere else, maybe $17 a pound, depending on where you live. That is the perfect portion. That in itself is a meal.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you usually eat it? Do you put it on a salad? What do you do with it usually?

Jen Cohen:
You could do anything. You could put it on a salad. You could actually ... When I'm starving and I need something to satiate me, I could just take the can of salmon, mash it a little bit of Vegenaise or mayonnaise whatever you'd like, or just put it in a bowl or whatever, eat out of the can as a snack. When I was on a budget I would eat that all the time, and I still eat that.

Jen Cohen:
The other thing is frozen vegetables. Frozen vegetables are a higher quality-sourced produce than what you find at the store because by the time it's at the store, it's been sitting on trucks, it's already half rotten. When you buy frozen vegetables, they flash-freeze them when it's at its peak, so the quality is better.

Bobbi Rebell:
So frozen vegetables, but not canned vegetables? What's the difference there?

Jen Cohen:
Listen. Canned corn, there's nothing wrong with canned corn. I mean, the reality is this: I don't like canned vegetables as much because I think when you do that in the cans, they have to add sodium. I try to stay away from that, but when it's the frozen vegetables, it's typically just the vegetable in itself flash-freeze in a bag so there's no added anything. It's just the vegetables. Canned vegetables typically have to have a preservative to keep it because it's not frozen, and also added salt. That's why I choose to have the frozen vegetables.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that all.

Jen Cohen:
And frozen fruit, by the way, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, and I do that in smoothies a lot, actually. I did that even today in a smoothie.

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Don't be a food snob. Jen talked about eating frozen veggies and canned fish and how, quote, "fresh" isn't always better even if it's organic. Oh, my goodness. Could you imagine? Organic not being the absolute best? You need to pay attention. You can really get burned paying up for all that so-called fresh food because when you take away all those chemicals, which you should, we don't want the chemicals on our food, of course, but sometimes, the shelf life is just really short.

Recently, I splurged on these organic grapes at Whole Foods, and they went bad so fast. I had paid $8 for a bunch because I really wanted the grapes and I wanted to feel like I was eating healthy, and they barely lasted. That is also, by the way, a reason not to go shopping with your kids because I was with my son, and he also felt we should get the grapes, even though they were really expensive, and it's really hard to say no to a kid with they ask for food that's actually not junk food. Even if it's not the absolute healthiest fruit, it's not junk food, and that hard not to encourage, so try to leave your kids at home when you shop, although that's not always realistic.

Financial grownup tip number two:

The power of persuasion is very real. Good for Jen. Jen really shouldn't have been working at the Olive Garden at age 12 because it was not actually fully legal, but she got her way because she was creative and she found a way to get to yes with a reluctant manager and find a way to work there without technically working there and not technically breaking the law. That was a great lesson for all of us, Jen. Be persuasive and find a way around obstacles.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Jennifer’s website - jennifercohen.com

• How to save money and cut calories on your morning coffee from Starbucks

• Jen's book Badass Body Goals

Follow Jennifer!

• Instagram - @TheRealJenCohen

• Twitter - @TheRealJenCohen

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Performance coach Jen Cohen is a master at ab crunches— crunching numbers. She shares the story of how she talked her way into a job at Olive Garden before she was even old enough to work- and then reveals her secrets to eating healthier on a tight budget. #EatHealthy #EatHealthyOnABudget #Author

After buying an expensive home, Certified Financial Planner David Rae found himself facing an income crunch during the recession. His decision to get a roommate helped him keep the home and stay on track with his financial and lifestyle goals. 

In David's money story you will learn:

-That even CFP's experience money troubles too

-Creative ideas to help alleviate the cost of a home

-Ways to cope with the feeling of failure when financial goals aren't met

-The real reason people can afford big houses

-What David looks for in a roommate!

In David’s money lesson you will learn:

-Financial problems should be dealt with head on

-There are creative ways to cut spending that won't inhibit your lifestyle

In David's everyday money tip you will learn:

-David's favorite credit cards and the perks of each one

-The easiest way David saves money while traveling first class 

-How to prioritize your spending to afford nice vacations

In My Take you will learn:

-Being a financial grownup means keeping on track with your goals, not living a certain lifestyle

-Take action if a financial disaster is coming your way, don't wait for it to go away

EPISODE LINKS

Check out David's website FinancialPlannerLA.com

Follow David!

Instagram: @DavidRaeLA

Linked In: @David Rae, CFP

Twitter: @DavidRaeCFP

Facebook: @DavidRaeCFP

In this Financial Grownup episode we have Certified Financial Planner David Rae as a guest on our show. He talks about decisions he made that make him a Financial Grownup like getting a roommate. He also gives us tips on how we can save money traveling first class. #FinancialGrownup #SaveMoney #Traveling

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

David Rae:
It did kind of feel like I was failing in a way to have to get a roommate, but then looking forward, I'm like this means I can actually be successful and keep the house, rebound, and let it rebound in value, and still travel and have fun and do all the things I wanted to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Growing Up with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grown up. You know what, being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, that was my friend certified financial planner, David Rae. Even though he felt like he was failing, he was in fact pivoting, very well in fact, to deal with things beyond his control. More on that in a moment. Just wanna thank all of you for your support. We have been doing some new content here, adding in bonus episodes on topics you guys have requested, and the feedback has been amazing. Please keep it coming, DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter and BobbiRebell, and tell me what you think about the changes we've been making, and what kind of topics you want us to be covering. Reviews are great, too if you wanna support the show, and of course, tell a friend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk now about about David Rae. He takes being a financial grown up very seriously, and so it was hard, but maybe not too hard to make a decision when the recession hit a decade ago. Here is David Rae.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey David Rae, you're a financial grown up, welcome to the podcast.

David Rae:
Thanks for having me on.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of all the wisdom that you share with so many people. You're quoted very widely in the media, you're on TV all the time, and a lot of it has to do with your expertise being a financial planner, and telling us what to do when we need it in advance of what we need it. And the story that you brought to share with us here on Financial Grown Up I love because it has to do with the fact that you're kind of just like us in that things happen that you can't always control with the economy and the larger environment, but you, even though you're a CFP, still have to deal with them. Tell us your money story.

David Rae:
I did a lot of planning and I went out and bought a very nice and expensive house in LA. This was right before the financial crisis, so I bought my house in early 2007. I thought I got a great deal, I got like $300,000 off the asking price, little did I know that the financial crisis was coming. I got a house that I thought I could afford with my growing income, and when we went into the financial crisis, my income didn't go up as much as it had in the past, and a few years in, it had started to decline actually, and that combined that with real estate values tanking, I had to go back to my financial plan and look at my spending and where I wanted to spend money, and instead of having to cut back on my travel and fun with friends, I decided to get a roommate

David Rae:
And I think that was a really big financial grown up moment because it did kind of feel like I was failing in a way to have to get a roommate, but then looking forward, I'm like this means I can actually be successful and keep the house, rebound, and let it rebound in value, and still travel and have fun and do all the things I wanted to do. And I have a big, nice house, I can have a roommate here. It wasn't like I was sharing a room.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about what happened. How do you even start looking for a roommate? How old were you at the time, and you'd been living on your own for how long?

David Rae:
I hadn't been on my own that long. I'd had roommates before I bought the house, so it wasn't like a huge, big deal. It wasn't like I was married with ten kids running around which would make it a lot more difficult, but I was in my mid twenties, I had been a few years in to being a financial planner, and I planned ahead. I could make the payment, I could afford the house, even with the drop in income, but it juts would be tight and really not a fun process. Plus, I was looking at real estate values and they had dropped pretty substantially around the country.

David Rae:
By getting a roommate, I was able to still travel, still have money, and still be able to save for my financial goals, like retirement and all those fun things that a financial planner should be doing. And at the same time, it allowed me to stay in my home because I bought a bigger, more expensive home knowing I would be there for a long time. Since I've bought the house, it's doubled in value, it just had a very nice 30 or 40 percent dip during the financial crisis, like much real estate did during that time. But looking forward, because I kept the house and stuck with it, even when times were tough, I was able to come out ahead with this great investment on my house which if I took the dip out of it, it looks great, my house doubled in value in like 10-11 years, which is a pretty nice return there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because the truth is, as long as you can afford the payments, and you don't fall into a problem situation, it only matters the day that you buy an investment, and the day that you sell it. So even though there, as you say there's this dip, ultimately, it really is just on paper, because you had enough of a financial cushion, and you also made a big lifestyle adjustment.

David Rae:
Absolutely, and you know, most investments, it really does help to have time on your side, and real estate is one of those things as well because so many bailed out. And don't get me wrong, there are people that maybe their house dropped a lot more or they didn't want to live there and there was reasons to sell, or if I was gonna be going into credit card debt or racking up other bills, or not able to pay my mortgage, it would be a different conversation.

David Rae:
But with roommates, I was able to maintain my lifestyle, and then now I don't have roommates. I've since gotten married, and the house is mine and it's been upgraded and all this great stuff. But I weathered the storm, and I think having a plan and facing being a financial grown up really can make you smooth some of these tough times out.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was it like looking for a roommate? How did you even do that? Were there a lot of people looking for places to stay more than usual because of what was going on in the larger economy?

David Rae:
You know, I'm in the center of LA, so a lot of people are looking for roommates. Rent is really expensive here, so me renting a room in the house was still a few hundred dollars cheaper rent wise for someone coming to rent a room versus getting their own one bedroom or studio apartment. Plus it was fun, I mean I was in my 20's, so I think a lot of people in their 20's still have roommates, especially in bigger cities, and it was still fun to have because we had game night at the house, and we had people over for American Idol, so it was actually a really nice social thing because I was single and it probably actually aided my social life more than being a hindrance. Like oh my god, my terrible roommates sitting on the couch, you know, the horrible thing that people are probably picturing when they're thinking of getting a roommate or some hobbit that never leaves the house.

David Rae:
I actually had friends living with me, and it was not a problem to find roommates, and over the years I had a few roommates move in, and then the final roommate stayed probably two years after I got married. We just enjoyed having them here, and when they finally moved out, we didn't replace them.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the fact that you're not living in absolutes. You didn't say well I am a grown up now, so I must live in this house alone, and it would be very immature to have roommates or whatever, or deal with people judging you. You made a financially responsible decision and it also was kind of fun in the end.

David Rae:
It was fun in the end, and looking ahead to where I'm at financially now as a financial planner, that meant my 401k contributions were still made, my mortgage was still paid, I didn't rack up credit card debt, and that's turned into hundreds of thousands of dollars over that time when I put it into the stock market and let it grow. So it really can make a huge difference when you give it time and let it compound.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what is the takeaway for our listeners?

David Rae:
Don't ignore financial problems. That's the biggest thing. I could have probably ignored it, and a lot of other people ignore when they're out of work and they don't wanna cut back, or they've gotten a decrease in pay, or they've had an illness. I face it head on, and it really meant that I could brave the storm and come out stronger on the other end. And I had some fun along the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and you know what, the other thing is you you didn't have to deprive yourself of things you enjoyed, like travel, so you were able to still do things that were discretionary to some degree. Because sometimes people in that situation, maybe would not have thought to take on a roommate, or chosen not to, and then they just wouldn't have traveled for two years.

David Rae:
And do what's right for you. I mean obviously some other people, you're right, it may be better to just not travel, but that wasn't what I wanted to be doing in my mid 20's when I was single and free and could run around the world and have a great time and I also wanted to have a house and I wanted to save for the future cause I am a financial planner, and I do love saving my money and seeing my net worth grow, which wasn't necessarily happening on paper during the financial crisis when the market was dropping and real estate values were dropping, and my income wasn't doing what I would like it to be doing, or what it's doing today.

David Rae:
But I'm here and I made it through and I was a financial grown up.

Bobbi Rebell:
You were proactive, and that's the important thing. Lets talk about your everyday money tip, because it also has to do with travel and making sure that you can travel the way that you want to travel. You have some tips for us.

David Rae:
Absolutely. My big thing to think about is prioritize what's important to you, cause I see so many people that say they can't afford to travel, but they're driving an expensive car, or they're living in a really expensive house, and that just doesn't leave any money leftover to travel. So prioritize your spending, and for me, one of the biggest ways that I can really travel in style, because I've gotten spoiled and like to fly say first class around the world. I use credit card points and miles to really make that affordable. I'm not gonna be spending $15,000 a ticket like my last trip to Europe would have cost if I paid cash. But i used miles, so I spent like $50 on that, and the way I accrue a ton of miles is I put all of my bills on credit cards, just disclaimer, I pay them off every month, I can afford what I'm spending. And I put them on the credit cards that will get me the most miles.

David Rae:
At Staples and Office Depot I get five points on one of my cards, and I have another card that gives me like four points on dining and other cards give you money on gas and utilities. So finding the cards that will give you the most points, as well as sign up bonuses and status matches. So I have an airline card that helps me have higher status, and I've gotten upgraded like 12 times this year on almost all of my flights from just having status, so that's free, sitting in first or business class. Just for having status. I like free.

Bobbi Rebell:
I like free.

David Rae:
I like nice stuff for free.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what resources, do you have any favorite resources that you can point us to?

David Rae:
I really like the points guy. It's a website that has a bunch of tips there, and there's another blogger called Eric Rosen who has a bunch of stuff on the internet if you google him, he talks really about how to get upgraded to first class, which is a great resource there.

Bobbi Rebell:
I need that.

David Rae:
I know you do. There's nothing more financial grown up than being first class, especially [crosstalk 00:10:46]-

Bobbi Rebell:
Not if you pay for it though. Definitely not gonna pay for it in actual cash or money. But if it could be free, that works for me.

David Rae:
We could all do that, we can all use miles and points or status, and just being a little strategic on how you do it, I book my hotels a lot of times through hotels dot com and I just went away for the weekend and used free nights. I went to Vegas and had two free nights of hotel. So it's just stretching the money you're making and spending to turn it into more travel and more fun, and that's just the stuff I love. I know other people like cash back, or gift cards or things like that, but I love to travel, and again, I've become a little spoiled and wanna be up in first class when possible, even though I believe Barbara Corcharan says she's back in coach. But I'll be up in first and that's how I like it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before I let you go, I love your blog. Tell me about your blog.

David Rae:
My blog is Financial Planner LA dot com, and I really just try to bring fun tips to money. I know we get pretty serious as a financial planner, and you say the big B word, budget, but I really like to go more in the range of pop culture and fun, and I did a big series on the Golden Girls retirement, how you can retire and have a fabulous time [crosstalk 00:11:56].

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that, I was retweeting that one, I loved it.

David Rae:
I know, it's so much fun. People really love that. It's kind of taking that roommate story and going this can actually be a great, positive thing, and a happy dream retirement. We'd all love to live with friends, or at least have that kind of friendships around. So I try to make money fun, and definitely the tax stuff is in there, and the nuts and bolts are in there, but we try and wrap it in something fun so you're not just stocks and bonds.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and it's a great resource, especially because we're heading into the end of the year, and there's a lot of changes, and you mentioned the tax law, so you're a great resource as a Certified Financial Planner to check out for all of that. And just before I let you go, one last thing, share with us your social handles so people can follow you.

David Rae:
Yes, on Twitter I'm DavidRae, R-A-E, CFP. On Instagram, I'm DavidRaeLA, and on Facebook it's David Rae CFP as well. So check me out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, David.

David Rae:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. For all the talk about delayed adulthood these days, the truth is, there is still a stigma with having roommates as not being a very grown up thing. But, being a grown up means making adjustments and being real when you need to. Life's complicated, things get messy, and there's a lot of unpredictable stuff that we can't always be fully prepared for. So we have to be ready to make changes and go with the flow a little bit. Sometimes things just kind of happen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up tip number one, do what you have to do to stay on track with your financial goals. David took on roommates. It wasn't so bad, in fact, he had a pretty good time with it. I moved back in with my parents when I got a divorce early in my adult life. I sold the tiny one bedroom apartment that I had owned, regrouped for a year, saved money, and moved out. Stronger financially, and also just like David had a good time with his roommates, it was kind of nice getting to know my parents as an adult.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up tip number two, if you see the financial train wreck coming down the tracks, and you know it's coming guys, you can see it, get a plan together fast. Don't assume things are just gonna fix themselves or you can just bury your head in the sand. They're not gonna go away so easily. Even if your plan isn't perfect, just have some kind of plan. Do something. You can adjust it later. But denial and procrastination like David said, just too expensive. You deserve better.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for your continued support. If you have not, please subscribe to the podcast. It's free. Go into the manual settings when you do it, and setup auto downloads so you don't miss any upcoming episodes, and of course, please tell a friend that you care about and who you think deserves to have a rich life.

Bobbi Rebell:
David Rae is such a wonderful role model for all of us. Thank you for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grown ups.

Guest co-host and shopping expert Trae Bodge joins Bobbi with her three rules that practically guarantee you will avoid amateur spending mistakes this holiday season.

Ambition Redefined author Kathryn Sollmann’s childhood took an unexpected financial detour when her father had a career setback. But becoming a financial grownup at a young age gave her the foundation to redefine ambition. 

In Kathryn's money story you will learn:

-Why she started working at a young age

-How her financially stressful childhood prepared her for success

-The way she wished her parents talked about money when she was growing up

In Kathryn’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to have honest conversations about money with a significant other

-Why Kathryn suggests women should always have a way to make money

-Her tips on how to balance work and family life

In Kathryn's everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to categorize your savings account

-Ways prioritize saving money while staying out of debt

In My Take you will learn:

-Financial grownups don't judge, every financial plan is unique to each family or individual but making smart decisions are what make plans successful

-Family time and work time don't have to be separate, hear what Bobbi and Kathryn have to say about blending a schedule in order to balance it

EPISODE LINKS

Read Kathryn's new book Ambition Redefined here

Check out Kathryn's website for more information here

Follow Kathryn!

Instagram: @KathrynSollmann

Twitter: @KathrynSollmann

Linked In: @KathrynSollmann

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
The financial situation at home got so tenuous that my father, a couple of times, took my little part-time afterschool paychecks to pay a few bills while he was waiting for some things to come in and that had just a profound impact on me.

BOBBI REBELL:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, financial grownup friends. I like to joke that it is never too young to grow up financially, but I'm rethinking that a bit, and that is because my guest, Ambition Redefined author, Kathryn Sollman, got a rude awakening when her comfortable upper middle class suburban life was interrupted by the harsh financial reality of a change in her family's financial situation. More on that in just a minute.

BOBBI REBELL:
First, a quick welcome to everyone. If you are new, so glad you found us. Please hit the subscribe button so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and go into custom settings and set to auto download. While you are there, it will make our day if you leave a quick review. Now to Kathryn Sollman. Love her book, Ambition Redefined, but I will warn you, she makes him controversial arguments. And while I do see her point, and she does a lot of research, there's a lot of data to backup everything she says, there is a lot of discussion about her perspective. And stay to the end. We will be giving away a signed copy of Ambition Redefined. Here is Kathryn Sollman.

BOBBI REBELL:
Kathryn Sollman, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Oh, thanks for having me. It's great to be here.

BOBBI REBELL:
I love your new book. Congratulations on it. It is Ambition Redefined: Why The Corner Office Doesn't Work For Every Woman And What To Do Instead. It's like you read my mind, Kathryn.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Yeah. We're in an era of women's empowerment, which is great, and we need to have a woman president, and we need to have more women running corporations, but that's very small percentage of women overall who want those kinds of jobs.

BOBBI REBELL:
Absolutely, and I do want to just mention that this is very important for men as well because men are huge stakeholders in this issue because they have so much at stake when it comes to not only whether they're women partners, their sisters, their mothers, their daughters work, but also the income that they generate because that can be a big factor when things don't go as planned, which brings us to your money story, which does have to do with your father and what happened and the impact on the rest of the family and the role that your mother had to play then in the family finances. Tell us your money story, Kathryn.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
I grew up in a very affluent community. My father was working in a big executive job in New York City. When I was in middle school, he lost that big job and he never fully recovered professionally. This then sent my mother, who was a former teacher, back to work and she hadn't worked in more than 20 years.

BOBBI REBELL:
Wow.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
So she had some fits and starts, but over time was able to reinvent herself to be an English as a second language teacher, but that wasn't really enough to keep the household going. So there was a tremendous amount of financial stress in the household. The financial situation at home got so tenuous that my father, a couple of times, took my little part-time afterschool paychecks to pay a few bills while he was waiting for some things to come in, and that had just a profound impact on me.

BOBBI REBELL:
What was your job?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
It was a company called the Danbury Mint. I guess I was a like an administrative assistant.

BOBBI REBELL:
And what kind of conversations did you have with your father or with your parents at this time?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
You know, it was a difficult environment because I felt like everything was always on pins and needles. I was young and it's not like I could have given my father advice. I was just kind of a victim.

BOBBI REBELL:
Well, what about your mother? How did she feel? Did you talk to her? Did she have regrets about having left the workforce? At the time, as you say, it was a different time. Did she feel she even had options not to leave the workforce?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
She felt a little powerless and she said that to me. She said, "Make sure that you always work because money is power." Not only in a relationship can money be power, but she said it's important that you have that power to support yourself and your family. I remember when she got one of her first big paychecks, she was very excited about being back to work and she bought herself a watch. I remember my father was very, very upset that she had bought that watch for herself because he felt like he should have bought it for her.

BOBBI REBELL:
What is the takeaway from your story for our listeners?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
You know, women really need to be sure that they're not delegating their financial security to a partner because even when things seem like they're going so well, you've got to realize that no job has a lifetime guarantee. The second thing is that women should always find a way to work in a flexible way, which in some circles, is very controversial. Women live longer than men. They typically earn and save less and it's very difficult to return to the workforce and recoup lost earnings when you've been out of the workforce for many years and women are out for an average of 12 years.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
If you feel like you have a moral obligation to be with your children 24/7, you've got to realize that if you ran out of money late in life, you would then, in fact, burden those very same children, which is basically what happened to me when my father took a couple of my paychecks. Fast forward, that's the same man who is not prepared for retirement and still alive at 89. At some point, he is going to run out of money and it's going to be my problem.

BOBBI REBELL:
All right, let's move on to the everyday money tip, which is also very important for women to have a sense of the contribution that they are making because, in some cases, many cases, they are not the primary breadwinner, but it is important to really understand that there is a significant contribution being made financially and you have a way to do that.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
What I always say is look at how much money you're bringing in each year and attach it to something. It could be two family vacations, it could be 50 percent or 100 percent of a college tuition bill, a child's braces, whatever it is, so that you can then say, "Okay, well I covered that. My money went to that." If you just put it all in the pot, it seems like your money is going to nothing or nothing significant.

BOBBI REBELL:
Right.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
And that's the way to make yourself feel better but also to, as my mother was saying, to exert a little power into the relationship and say, "I'm contributing too. This isn't just your ballgame."

BOBBI REBELL:
Which is very important because it makes it a lot more tangible. Let's talk about Ambition Redefined. I love this book. It's so relatable and there's a lot of truths in this that are not always spoken about, one of which is the fact that just because you were working flexible hours and sometimes part time hours does not mean you are earning less money or that you should settle for less money if you have the earning power in the market to earn more money.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Yeah, it's absolutely true. A large percentage of freelancers earn more money than they were making in their full time jobs within a year. I was just speaking to a woman who had a full-time job with absolutely no flexibility. She needed more flexibility. She left and she found another job where she is working three days a week and she's working closer to home. She got rid of the commute and she's making 60 percent more than she was in the full-time job.

BOBBI REBELL:
So it's a question of finding the right job that values your skills. You also talk about something called a Type E, and this is important because I know a lot of our listeners are very interested in having their own business and being entrepreneurs. But it's important to make sure that's the right fit for you.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
That's right. When you're thinking about flexibility, what could be more flexible than being your own boss? So I find that lots of women think about, have these Walter Mitty dreams of starting this business or that business. The fact is that you have to be the entrepreneurial profile and the entrepreneurial profile is working 24/7 because there's nobody else to make this business work other than you, especially in the early stages before you might hire people. The other thing is that you have to wear so many hats.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
So if you have a dream to be a marketing consultant and you really love marketing, well, you might love that marketing discipline, but you probably or you may not love sales. Any job, any business that you develop, you've got to be a salesperson. And lots of people thinking about having their own business will tell me, "Well, I don't like sales. I never wanted to be a salesperson."

BOBBI REBELL:
Everything is sales though, right?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Everything is sales. You've got to be selling yourself, your product, your service constantly. So you can't say you don't like sales and you can't say that you don't like financial stuff and numbers because you've got to work the numbers for your business. You've got to figure out how you're going to fund your business, even if it's a very small business.

BOBBI REBELL:
Tell us more about where people can find out more information about you, your book, and all your social channels so we can follow you.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
You can read more about my book on my website, kathrynsollman.com, and Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram can all be found under @kathrynsollman.

BOBBI REBELL:
Wonderful. Thank you, Kathryn.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Thank you. So great to be with you.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey everyone. As I mentioned at the top, Katherine is very tough in her stance on the fact that women must always earn money. And that comes from personal experience, but still, financial grownup tip number one, no judging. Kathryn makes her point very well. She did her homework. It's a really well researched book and I live by most of her advice already in my own life, but part of being a financial grownup is understanding that there is a human element to money and an emotional element to the decisions that we make and all the decisions that go around our financial lives.

BOBBI REBELL:
Everyone faces different situations and there may be many seasons in one's life when a regular paycheck or earning power is just not as important as other things. Don't get me wrong, we must all be vigilant about financial security, but let's not judge if someone makes a decision that, from the outside, doesn't look good. Sometimes, by the way, it may look like somebody's choosing not to work or not to earn money, but in fact, they may be trying and just not have been that successful. Be a friend.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial gonna tip number two. One idea in Kathryn's book that I loved was not to worry so much about work life balance, but to focus on blending. Maybe don't put pressure on yourself to turn off communication with work the minute you get home. It may work for some people, but it's okay if you give her child a bath, for example, and then you take a work call, and then you do story time. And maybe your kids stays up a little later than you wanted or whatever. Do what works for you to maintain your career path.

BOBBI REBELL:
And by the way, it is more than okay for your kids to know that you have other responsibilities and that paying attention to those other responsibilities may help pay, literally, for the fun things that you do together like your next vacation. Put them on your team, include them. Let them know that their good behavior and understanding when you have to do some work, even when it's supposed to be their time, helps the whole family.

BOBBI REBELL:
Katherine very generously sent along a signed copy of her book, Ambition Redefined: Why The Corner Office Doesn't Work For Every Woman And What To Do Instead for one lucky listener. To win, all you have to do is DM me with your takeaway from the episode. You can do it on Instagram @bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell, or you can even email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. That is hello@financialgrownup.com.

BOBBI REBELL:
I love talking to Kathryn. She has so much value to add to this conversation. I hope everyone checks out her book, Ambition Redefined, and thank you, Kathryn, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz may be a Financial Grownup but that doesn’t mean all her friends have been able to grow up. Listen to how she works to get them on track. Plus- the president of the Charles Schwab foundation also shares an everyday money tip about making it easier to give to causes you care about. 

In Carrie's money story you will learn:

-How talking about money with your friend can keep you both on track

-The 3 craziest ways someone has tried to make quick cash

-What Carrie's number one priority is when it comes to saving, and how she follows through with it

-Hear why Carrie believes participating in the market is the key to saving for retirement

In Carrie’s money lesson you will learn:

-The one thing every financial professional does to save money and keep themselves on track. 

-The easiest way to be a good financial friend - and a successful financial grownup

In Carrie's everyday money tip you will learn:

-The ultimate tax smart way give to charity this holiday season 

In My Take you will learn:

-Carrie's friend from her money story was making some crazy financial decisions, here's how you can be the best financial friend possible without damaging your relationship

-Suggesting financial help to your friends could be the best gift you give this holiday season

Bobbi and Carrie also talk about:

-Carrie helped her friend's daughter pick out a broad-based index funds retirement plan, check out if that could also be right savings plan for you

-Mutual funds, index funds, and retirement plans are something to start thinking about as early as in your twenties. 

EPISODE LINKS

For all of your financial planning questions check out Ask Carrie Columns on Schwabmoneywise.com

Follow Carrie!

Twitter: @CarrieSchwab

Facebook: @CarrieSchwabPomerantz

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Her daughter's about to go off to college, she panics, so what does she do? She signs up to drive for Instacart in her red, snazzy car, dropping off groceries at people's homes.

BOBBI REBELL:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together.

BOBBI REBELL:
I'm going to bring you one money store from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, friends. Let's talk about being friends. Are you on track with your goals, but see a train wreck coming with someone you care about? What do you? Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz knows all about it, and has solutions.

BOBBI REBELL:
First, a quick welcome to everyone. If you are just joining us, you are new to the show, so glad you are here. We keep the shows short because you're busy, but if you are commuting or have a little more time, we fully encourage the binge listen.

BOBBI REBELL:
Got a question? We are putting together some upcoming episodes to answer them, so DM us at bobbirebell1 on Instagram, bobbirebell on Twitter, or email us, hello@financialgrownup.com. That is hello@financialgrownup.com.

BOBBI REBELL:
All right, let's get to Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz. I feel like she is the friend we all need in our back pocket. Yes, she is the daughter of Charles Schwab, and she grew up watching her dad build the business through ups and downs; but she is also, as you'll hear, a fantastic role model and financial expert in her own right.

BOBBI REBELL:
And, her story is one that we'll all be able to relate to. Here is Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Thanks, Bobbi, so glad to be here.

BOBBI REBELL:
I am so honored to have you, because you are so accomplished in your own right, even though you get talked about a lot as the daughter of Charles Schwab. We're not going to talk about him.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
No.

BOBBI REBELL:
We're only going to talk about you. You are President of the Charles Schwab Foundation, and this is what really we bonded over, is that we are both certified Financial Planners, so you know your stuff.

BOBBI REBELL:
You got a lot of other letters after your name, but that's the one that is most special to me, so-

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I think so, too. We worked hard, didn't we, Bobbi?

BOBBI REBELL:
We did. That is one hard test, so-

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Yeah, yeah.

BOBBI REBELL:
Big pats on the back to us, and kudos to all the CFPs out there who are doing a lot to support people's financial goals, and to act as fiduciaries, which is a really important thing, as well.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Yeah, and you know, Bobbi, this is how, again, you bring it up. Here we are, two women, and we need so many more women in our field, and I don't think people realize that this is not a field of match, or stem, or whatever.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
It's about helping people achieve financial security, and I think that we absolutely need more women in the industry to help people achieve that.

BOBBI REBELL:
Absolutely, and it's also important to be helping our friends, but that's not always an easy thing to do, which brings us to the money story that you're going to share.

BOBBI REBELL:
This is one of the most compelling stories that I have heard yet, because it really goes to the heart of what challenges us when it comes to money, and that is the human side.

BOBBI REBELL:
Tell us your money story, Carrie.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Well, this one's a hard one to share. One of my oldest childhood friends, who I love, she's like a sister to me. She's always struggled with money, always worked, and so forth; so I really respect her financial independence, but she didn't always make good decisions.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
You know? She's not always prioritizing how to spend her earnings. She's a lawyer, by the way, and the one story that just confused me a little bit is ... She has a daughter that went on to college, and she was ... She had been saving for her daughter's college education, but I guess she didn't quite have enough money, and she panicked.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
My girlfriend had been driving a Tesla, much to my chagrin.

BOBBI REBELL:
For those that don't know, what do Teslas go for about? Are they over $100000?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I think they're about $90000. Yeah, I imagine ... Definitely not in my budget. And so, she's driving these $90000, her daughter's about to go off to college, she panics, so what does she do? She signs up to drive for Instacart in her red, snazzy car, dropping off groceries at people's homes.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I had to think to myself, “What's with this?” You know? “Tesla and driving for Instacart? Where are our priorities?”

BOBBI REBELL:
What do you do as a friend when you see a friend making what in your mind are irrational money decisions?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
You know, that's a hard conversation to have, I have to tell you. And, she has had this tendency ... I'll tell you another little story about her. She would buy tickets, like the Rolling Stones would come to town, buy expensive tickets in hopes that she could sell them for a profit.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
And, guess what? She can't sell them, so she comes to me and my sister in hopes we'll buy them.

BOBBI REBELL:
Oh, my goodness.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Yeah, so I just finally ... I had to have some words and some tough love conversations with her, but, you know, the Tesla one, the most recent one ... she kind of knows how I feel. I just have to smile, and grin, and bear it.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
You know, “Why didn't you just get a Prius?” Because she wanted to go across the bridge, I guess you couldn't go through the fast lane, and so forth; but I would not say there's an easy conversation.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I would say I have little conversations along the way, about the importance of having your priorities straight, and really making number one priority, saving and investing for your retirement.

BOBBI REBELL:
I'm curious, do people come to you, your friends, informally for advice all the time? Kind of like the doctor that goes to parties and everyone says, “Oh, I've got this little bark here, can you tell me what it is?” Do you get that a lot?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I get it a lot, and to be honest with you, I so appreciate it. A girlfriend of mine, her daughter just got her first job in an investment bank, and I asked right away ... Specially for a young woman, I would say, “Have you started saving in your 401k?” And she said, “No, just because I don't know what to do.”

CARRIE SCHWAB:
She's in New York, and I'm in San Francisco, and I said, “Email me your options at your 401k,” so I took a look at them. I even consulted with one of our Financial Consultants who looks at this stuff every day, and we both agreed that she should be invested in a broad-based index fund that was offered within her plan.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
To me, it's all about participating in the market, specially for young people. When you're talking about retirement, you're talking about up to 40 years, potentially.

BOBBI REBELL:
Yes, we live a long time now.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
We live a long time, and put even more than 40 years, so it's so important to invest in a diversified portfolio of stocks, like a mutual fund, or an index fund. It's about participating in the market, it's not about picking the hot stock, or the hot mutual fund.

BOBBI REBELL:
Totally agree, so what is your advice, your takeaway in terms of being a financial friend? Admit it, you've had mixed success at. What is your advice for our listeners when they do see friends doing things that they know are not in their best financial interest?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Steer your friends towards professional help; and I would also say there's no shame in getting help. I tell people all the time that even I have a registered Investment Advisor, and even the professionals get help, because it takes the emotion out of it, it makes you accountable. Right?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Because, you know, you're showing up, you're meeting with your representative, and you learn, and you get better results. Give them somebody you totally trust, and then you can take it out and not sort of saturate yourself from the situation.

BOBBI REBELL:
So, Carrie, for your everyday money tip, it is almost holiday season, time to be thinking ... Hopefully we think about it all year-round, but time to be thinking, maybe a little more focused on giving to charity; and there is a way to do this where you often get more bang for your buck, as does the charity. Tell us more.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
The secret is a donor-advised fund. Most financial institutions have them. Schwab has one, I'm Chair of the Board, and basically you can open one up for as little as $5000. The way to make it tax smart is donate appreciated stock, that way you're not paying taxes, and you have more money going to the charity, and then ...

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Whatever amount it is, let's just say $10000, you get to deduct that from your taxes for that particular year. Then, you can take your time on what charities you want to choose from.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Basically there's a search button. We probably have almost all of the non-profits in the system, you point and click, put how much money you want, press “Send,” and we do all the leg work to get that check out to charity.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
And, what we find, is that 90% of our users say they give more to charity, because of the donor advise fund.

BOBBI REBELL:
Wonderful. Tell us more about how people can learn more about you, your work at Schwab. I love your personal Twitter feed, it's awesome. You really have great, inspiring-

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Oh, thank you.

BOBBI REBELL:
Messages on there. Where can people find out more?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Well, you can follow me @carrieschwab, and you can also follow on Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz on Facebook, and I have a lot of my content, my Ask Carrie columns, personal finance columns.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Or, if you want an educational site, I highly recommend schwabmoneywise.com. It does have my Ask Carrie columns, but it has lots of tools, and calculators, and information about every aspect about personal finance; and it's for all levels of knowledge around finance.

BOBBI REBELL:
Yes. I have been on the site many times. It is very well done, highly recommend, and highly recommend listening to you more. Thank you so much, Carrie, this has been wonderful.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Oh, so much fun working with you, Bobbi.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, everyone. Love how much you can tell that despite her frustration, Carrie really cares about her friends. Let's get to my tips.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial grownup tip number one. Carrie held back from saying what I would have said to her friend, which is, “Sell the car already!” I know that cars depreciate in value, and so it's hard because you kind of feel like you're losing money, but really, if she needed the cash, why not just downgrade to that less expensive electric car right now?

BOBBI REBELL:
And, while her friend was at it, maybe there are other things that she can sell that she truly isn't using to pay for her daughter's tuition, rather than be delivering groceries in fancy, red, sports cars.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial grownup tip number two. Adding to Carrie's advice, to bring in a third party for financial advice. Very often, the best way to help a friend is often to only be a friend. Bring in professionals to help with, maybe not only the financial stuff, but also when it comes to relationship issues or other major life crises.

BOBBI REBELL:
Not that you can't listen and be supportive. Of course you should, as a friend, but pushing them to make a decision that is obvious to you, and usually the world, could also backfire on your friendship and have long-term ramifications; because the truth is, as much as I think Carrie should have been even more blunt with her friend, and tell her to sell that Tesla already, every time the friend missed her Tesla she could potentially resent Carrie.

BOBBI REBELL:
And, it would take a big toll on their friendship, so it's really a delicate thing. I think Carrie had great advice.

BOBBI REBELL:
Thanks to all of you for supporting the show. One way to do that is to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, aka iTunes, or wherever you listen to Financial Grownup. I read every one, and they are truly appreciated.

BOBBI REBELL:
Also appreciated, Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz, whose great story of friendship and money really helped bring us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Boreland Group Founder and CEO Jennefer Witter learned early on that the best way to get clients was to offer extreme value. But to stay in business, and continue to serve the clients, the author of the Little Book of Big PR also learned when to put the brakes on the discounts. 

In Jennefer’s money story you will learn:

-How to utilize a current network to create a new one

-Why Jennefer values transparency with her clients and how it helped her build a business

-Ways to find out what to charge new clients

In Jennefer’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to create meaningful relationships with new clients

-Three ways to look at the return on investment

-Why Jennefer always sets a definite stop date with her clients

In Jennefer's everyday money tip you will learn:

-The one question Jennefer asks that saves her small business big bucks

-Why it's good to be aggressive in business negotiations

In My Take you will learn:

-Take an angle that makes you eligible for discounts

-Why sometimes working for free has the biggest pay off

Bobbi and Jennefer also talk about:

-Jennefer mentioned that she gets a small business discount for ProfNet, which helps her public relations company get leads

EPISODE LINKS:

Jennefer's book is available online here

Check out The Boreland Group's website here

Follow Jennefer! 

Twitter: @JenneferTBG

Linked In: @Jennefer Witter

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Jennefer W.:
It was a six month program, and yes I invested, when you added up over $10,000, but what I got back through that $10,000, was multiples in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to, Financial Grownup, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of, How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grown-up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story, from a financial grown-up, one lesson, and then, my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grown-up friends. Every business, or pretty much every business, I would think, starts as a start-up, and every business has to get that very first sale, and that very first client, and to make it happen, in most cases, that first client, that first sale, the business owner has to be willing to lose money on the bet, that they will win over that first client, and build from there, but many businesses make a mistake, in that, they don't really set the expectations right, and then when they do have to raise the price, so that they can actually make money, they get backlash, because the client's expectations were not aligned with the realities of the business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Our guest, public relations whiz, Jennefer Witter, who is the head of, The Boreland Group, and by the way, literally, wrote the book on PR. It's called, The Little Book of Big PR, was careful in her approach at that delicate start-up stage, and it has served her well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. We have a lot of new listeners, that we are very excited about. The show's are short, about 15 minutes, because you're busy, but of course, you can binge, stack a few together. Maybe if you're commuting, have a little more time to listen. Consider it flextime for podcasts, and with that, let's get to our amazing guest. Here is Jennefer Witter.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Jennefer Witter. You are a financial grown-up. Welcome to the podcast.

Jennefer W.:
I am so thrilled to be on, Bobbi. How are you?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm excited to finally snag you. You are one busy lady. You are, the CEO and Founder of the boutique, Boreland Group, and you're also the author of a book that I loved reading, 'cause I'm kind of on the other side of it. It's The Little Book of Big PR, which is awesome, and it really is a little book.

Jennefer W.:
It's a tiny little book. It's a paperback, softcover. You can also get it as an e-book, and I wanted it to be little, because you know what it's like as an entrepreneur.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Jennefer W.:
You have some things on your desk. You have to do this. You have to do that. You don't want to be reading, War and Peace.

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Jennefer W.:
So, with the full book of Big PR, the full title is, The Little Book of Big PR: 100+ Quick Tips to Get Your Small Business Noticed, is you can read a chapter here, a chapter there, or you can read it all at once, and it will not take you more than a couple of hours to read it, and you walk away with information that you can readily use in your business practice.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that, and you are an entrepreneur. Your business has grown, but when it first started, you had to make some difficult choices, and we always say, "Don't undervalue yourself. Don't give away services for free, but it's kind of complicated." Tell us your mini story.

Jennefer W.:
Well, here's the thing. When I first started The Boreland Group, it was 15 years ago. I really didn't think about becoming an entrepreneur. So, when I decided to do it, it was just like, "You know what? I don't have clients. I don't have any income coming in."

Jennefer W.:
So, I reached out to everybody that I knew, and I said, "Do you know of somebody, who is looking for a boutique public relations firm?" And I got one response back, after sending out like 200 emails, and it was a friend of mine, and he said, "I have a friend, who's sister-in-law is looking for a publicist." And when I met with her, she did not want to pay what I was charging at that time, and so, what I decided to do was invest, because I only was going to have one client, and I knew that once I got that one client, once I got that chance, I would have those doors open.

Jennefer W.:
So, what I did was, she paid me [crosstalk 00:04:20].

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Let me just stop you there. So, you say what you were charging, but the truth is, you were charging no one because you had no clients.

Jennefer W.:
No. No clients.

Bobbi Rebell:
This was your first client. Right. So, you had an idea of what you wanted to charge, but you didn't have a rate that you were getting. So, you needed to start building your client roster.

Jennefer W.:
Oh, absolutely, and so what I did with this one client was, and I'll give everything as transparent. I charged her $1,800.00 a month. One thousand, eight hundred dollars, and then, I invested another $1,800.00 into her. So, it normally would have been $3,600.00, but I was only getting back $1,800.00.

Jennefer W.:
Now, you may say, "You're giving away your services." And I absolutely was, but I knew that once people saw what I was doing, getting her into the media, getting her speaking opportunities, that I would be able to build upon this client that I had, into a client portfolio, and after [crosstalk 00:05:16].

Bobbi Rebell:
Was this client, Jennifer, let me ask you, was she aware? Did she really only have budget for $1,800.00, and was she aware that she was getting, quote, double the value of what you felt you should be paid?

Jennefer W.:
Oh, she was absolutely aware, and what I told her was, for this first six months, I would charge her $1,800.00, and at the end of the six months, it would go up to the $3,600.00. So, she was fully aware, and I wrote a program, and I said, "This is what you're going to get overall." And I said, "This part you're going to be paying for. This part is what I'm investing in." And I put together a plan, that was very tight, because you have to be careful about such things. You don't want to say, "I'm going to give you $1,800.00." And you wind up giving somebody $5,000.00. You definitely need to have parameters, that you don't sink yourself before you swim, and once I started to do that, and then I started leveraging, and I'd say, "I have this client. This is what we're doing."

Jennefer W.:
When I was meeting with the media, some of the media saw what I was doing, and they sent some direct clients over to her, and at the end of the six months, I did a new program for her at the full price, $3,600.00, and she knew that it was coming. She saw the work that I was doing. She appreciated everything that I was doing, and more than that, she saw the value. She signed the account. I got paid the $3,600.00. I had other clients, who were paying that amount, and my business was based on an investment, that I knew would pay off in the long run, and it did.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what is the takeaway for our listeners? Among young people, there's a lot of talk coming up in business, that it's really important to be aggressive with your pricing, and not undersell yourself.

Jennefer W.:
You know, I wasn't underselling myself, and you have to want to give, in order to get, and when you have zero clients, and you have the opportunity to get a client, who you know will be the foundation of growing your business, you need to take that step, and you need to invest, and know that at the end of that six months, or whatever timeframe you're going to get your money back. You have to look at the big picture. You have to be long term, and you have to look at that ROI, the return on investment. It can't stretch out forever in eternity.

Jennefer W.:
You need to have a definite stop date, which is exactly what I did with this client. It was a six month program, and yes I invested, when you added up over $10,000.00, but what I got back through that $10,000.00, was multiples in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is a great story. Let's talk about your every day money tip, because it also pertains to when you start a business, and you're the small guy, you still need to have the tools, that the big guys have, but they are expensive. So, you have a tip on how you can save, if you are an individual, or a small boutique business, and you have to be assertive about it. Go for it.

Jennefer W.:
Oh, absolutely, and what you need to do, this is what I did. I am a small business. I've always been a small business, and whenever you're going out for products and services, if it's expensive, you know you have to use it, but tell them, "You know what? I'm a small business. Do you have a small business discount? What can you give me? I'm not the Edelmanns, or the Ketchums of the world. I'm not pulling in like $30-$40 million a year. I'm pulling in a fraction, but what I am is a client, and there's more of me than there are of the Ketchums, and the Edelmanns, and the large corporations."

Jennefer W.:
So, if you go out there, and you are aggressive, if you are forceful, and you say, "Look, I'm a small business. I'll be a loyal client. Give me that discount, that I know that you can give me." Let me tell you, it works.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just so our listeners who aren't familiar, you were referencing large public relations firms, 'cause you are in the public relations business. So, can you give us a tangible example, of something that you bought when you were starting out, or buy now, and approximately what it would cost for a large business, and approximately what it would cost for a ... how much you can get a discount from, from sort of the list price, so people have an idea of how much you can ask for?

Jennefer W.:
Sure. One of the services that I use is called, ProfNet, and it's specific to the PR community. What it is, you get pushed about 100 leads a day, and you go through them seeing which ones are, that you can respond to. It's from reporters. It's from producers. They're looking for interview topics for the stories that they are writing or producing.

Jennefer W.:
For large companies, it's several thousand dollars a year. I'm not exactly sure. Like $3,000.00 or $4,000.00, and by making it clear, and asking for a discount, and saying that I am a small business, I got it for less than $1,000.00 a year. So, right there and then, I was able to save about, over $2,000.00, that I would have paid ordinarily, if I had not spoken up and say, "Hey, I'm a small business. I'm a solopreneur. What can you do for me?" And it worked, and I saved a lot of money, because of that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can we find you, and find out more about you?

Jennefer W.:
Well, you can always find me on Twitter, which is J-E-N-N-E-F-E-R-T-B-G. You can go to my website, which is The Boreland Group dot com. B-O-R-E-L-A-N-D Group dot com, and I'm on LinkedIn, and again, my first name is spelled funny. It's J-E-N-N-E-F-E-R, and the last name is W-I-T-T-E-R. No h.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there a story behind the spelling of your name?

Jennefer W.:
You know what? I wish. I just think it was a nurse, who spelled it incorrectly. Both parents deny spelling it with the e, and it's on my birth certificate, so it got there some way.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so funny. Okay. Love that, but it sets you apart. So, there you go. We're all unique in our own way. Thank you so much, Jennefer, with an e, Witter. This was amazing. Thank you.

Jennefer W.:
Thank you, Bobbi, with an I.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, Friends. Alright, let's get right to it. Financial Grownup Tip Number One: Jennefer does a great job asking for discounts, because she is running a small business. That is the angle that she uses. So, think about what your angle is. There's countless ways for you to get a better price, or a better deal in some way, on just about anything, work or personal. You gotta find your angle.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of my favorite ways to get a discount on something that I need, for example, for my business, but don't want to pay the full price, or can't afford the full price. Maybe it's not in my budget. I say that. I just reach out and say to the vendor, "That's just not in my budget right now. Will you be in touch, if and when you have something that's an alternative to the offering, or maybe you can offer me a price reduction, an option that can work within my budget?"

Bobbi Rebell:
I have always gotten a response, and in almost every case, we've been able to work out a way for me to become a client, because ultimately, that's what they want. They want to get you in to their system, as a client, at some level, and then hopefully, later on down the road, they can increase how much you're spending, because you'll see the value in the product.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number Two: So, here's the flip side of all that. The most important part of Jennefer's money story, isn't that she lowered the price for her client, or did some of the work for free, however you want to look at it. To get a new client, it's that she had a strategy to end it. Expectations were set right at the outset. So, let's just say, you're on the other side of the business that I just talked about, where you had a business owner like myself coming to you saying, "It's just not in my budget." And you work out a deal to get me onboard. The important thing is to set expectations to say, "Okay, we're gonna do this for one year, and then, in a year when you see the value and hopefully your business is doing better, and your budget would have increased, you're gonna come in at the regular price." And they're hoping, that I, the business owner, will see the value.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, it's important, as Jennefer did, to work with clients when they need you to work with them, but also have them recognize that they are getting something of value, that maybe they're not paying the full price for, and that the expectation is, down the road, the price will meet the level that it needs to be at, for the business owner to sustain their business, because at the end of the day, if you enjoy doing business with somebody, you like their product, you want them to stay in business, and to do so, you need to make a profit. All good things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another great thing. If you enjoyed this podcast, let a friend know. Help us grow the show. Also, share it on social media. On Twitter, I am at Bobbi Rebell. On Instagram at Bobbi Rebell One, and DM me with your feedback. A lot of you have been doing that, and it's really great for me to hear which episodes really resonate, and what you want to hear more of, and maybe what you're not that into. That's okay too.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love hearing all of it, and as I have mentioned on previous episodes, we are now gearing up to do bonus episodes, which will include listener questions. So, send them in. You can DM me on the socials that I just mentioned, or you can email me them at, hello at Financial Grownup dot com. That's, hello at Financial Grownup dot com.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of Jennefer's. She has so much to offer. Do check out her book, The Little Book of Big PR, and of course, The Boreland Group, and thank you, Jennefer, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grown-ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, is edited and produced by, Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media Production.

Behavioural Scientist and Good Money author Nathalie Spencer missed a credit card payment. Then she missed another. But she finally managed to stop the cycle after putting a grownup plan in place.  

In Nathalie’s money story you will learn:

-How Nathalie learned from the financial mistakes she made in her 20s

-The mistake she made that caused her to missed two credit card payments in a row

-Three tips Nathalie swears by so she never misses a credit card payment again

In Nathalie’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to find a balance between micro-managing money and forgetting to pay bills

-How automation makes financially growing up a little bit easier

In Nathalie's everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to treat yourself and your budget

-The little thing Nathalie does before finance meetings to put her mind at ease

In My Take you will learn:

-What happens after you forget a credit card payment and ways to fix it

-How paying and reviewing bills can actually save you money

EPISODE LINKS:

Nathalie's book is available online here

Follow Nathalie! 

Twitter: @economiclogic

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

nathalie Spence:
I missed another credit card payment. It's not even that I didn't have the money. It's just that I just wasn't paying attention. I didn't have the head space.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, Financial Grownup Friends. You know what old expression, "The dog ate my homework." For not paying your credit card, let's make it, "I just didn't have the head space," because, as you heard, that's all that was going on with our guest. She just didn't have the head space. Nathalie Spencer, not a highly accomplished behavioral scientist and author, had the money just not the head space.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. If you are new, we are so excited that you found us. We share money stories from high achievers, along with practical every day money tips that you can put to work right away. We keep the episodes to about 15 minutes, but feel free to binge on a few if you have a little more time today.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, let's talk about Nathalie Spencer. I was so taken with her book, Good Money: Understand Your Choices, Boast Your Financial Well Being. It is totally different from many money books that I have read, and I read a lot. I loved this book, and I'm going to talk to Nathalie about your unique approach to helping people find their financial wellness. Here is Good Money author Nathalie Spencer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Nathalie Spencer. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

nathalie Spence:
Thanks. Great to speak with you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Loved your new books, Good Money: Understand Your Choices, Boast Your Financial Wellness because you are a behavioral scientist. In fact, you work at the Common Wealth Bank of Australia, and you bring a very different perspective to money and financial education.

nathalie Spence:
That's right. Yeah, so the book Good Money is about the behavior science of financial well being, and what that really means is that we look at psychology and decision making science, and we try to uncover why managing money can actually feel really difficult but then also provide some practical tips for how we can get through that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you pay have been inspired by your own behavior in your 20s. Tell us your money story, Nathalie.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, that's right. So my money story is that I missed a credit card payment, and then the next month I missed another credit card payment. And the thing is that it's not even that I didn't have the money. It's just that I just wasn't paying attention. I didn't have the head space. Like everyone, I felt busy. I was working, volunteering, social obligations, all this stuff, and I just really wasn't paying attention. So, of course, I got slapped with a penalty fee and interest started growing on my balance. When I realized this, I called the credit card company to contest it. Somehow I could find time to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you had to at that point. You had to deal with it.

nathalie Spence:
Well, that's right. Yes. So I had to deal with. I had to pay for it. But also, I thought, "Ah well. I'll just see if I can get this charged reversed." But even on the phone, I could tell that just saying, "Oh, well I just wasn't paying attention," was not really a good enough excuse. So this was a huge wake up call for me, and there were a couple things that came from it. So one, I realized that I needed to start paying attention to my finances, and I did. I started to do so. But also it was that it doesn't have to be so hard, and that there are things that I can do to make it easier. So what I did after that call was I set up reminders. So then I would get a text message a few days before my credit card bill was due, and I also set up a direct debit. The direct debit was for the minimum repayment amount. So what this did was that hopefully I wouldn't forget to pay again because I'd get the reminders, but even if I did forget, I had built in the protection so that I wouldn't have to pay a penalty charge.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, now that you have a career as a behavioral scientist, what do you think was going on in your mind, if you could analyze your 20 something self?

nathalie Spence:
Well, I think it was simply I wasn't paying attention. Managing money can be kind of boring, and it felt like it wasn't top of mind for me. I was just going around kind of spending mindlessly on my credit card and not really thinking about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what are the takeaways for our listeners?

nathalie Spence:
So I think one is on a more general scale and that's that you can design your life in a way that you make it easier for yourself. So behavioral science can tell us a lot about our choices with money, and then when we understand how those concepts apply to our own lives, in our own context, in our own situations, then we're able to put systems or processes in place to help us, to help ourselves out really to manage money better. And then I'd say that probably more specifically that automation is so great, especially if you don't want to be spending all of your time kind of micro managing all of your finances and thinking about it day and night. Automation is just great. It makes easy. And what you can do is you can require a little bit of up front effort and cognitive effort there to make sure that you're automating something that you can afford in the long term. But once you start it up, then you can just kind of put it to the side and forget it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So let's talk about your every day money tip because I'm very intrigued by the term temptation bundling.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, that's right. So my money tip is for anybody that finds managing their money kind of a drag. If you find personal finance management a chore, then what you can do is bundle it with a treat or a temptation, that's where the term temptation bundling comes from. And the key here is to make sure that you resist the temptation and only do that when you are managing your money then. So, for example, my husband and I do this. Once per month, we have a personal finance meeting. Thrilling, I know. But what we do is we make sure that we go around the corner to the bakery and we get coffees and pastries beforehand, and then we bring them back home and we have a personal finance meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it softens the blow.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it makes it something that you're not really dreading because you're getting a treat also.

nathalie Spence:
Exactly. And it actually serves two purposes. So, first of all, it helps make the personal finance meeting feel a little bit more fun and less morning, but also it keeps me from buying a croissant every single morning because I know I can only get it when I'm doing my personal finance meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever snuck one, Nathalie, come on?

nathalie Spence:
Well, yeah. Maybe one or two.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Good Money because there's a lot of scientific backing to everything you talk about, but at the same time, these are really every day issues that we all have to face. So, for example, one thing that I thought was really interesting in your book was how cashless transactions can actually effect how we spend our money.

nathalie Spence:
Yes. That's right. This is really interesting because with new technology, so many people want our payment mechanisms to be faster and easier and slicker and from like a user design perspective, of course, that's a really good goal is to have these new technologies like apps or pay and wave or tap and go be very easy. That's great. It has a lot of benefits. But there's also a downside in that the less noticeable payment is and the less friction there is there, then the easier it is to spend mindlessly. So, again, it can kind of feel like you're on autopilot and just kind of going through and spending quite easily.

Bobbi Rebell:
And as someone who has never seen a sale that I did not like. I mean, the friends and family stuff that's going on in New York City right now is out of control. I'm so tempted. Why is it that when we feel that something is a bargain, I mean, it's so difficult to resist?

nathalie Spence:
Well, that's exactly it. Well, there are a lot of things that might be going on that retailers can do to get us to spend more money. One is that when you see the original price and then you see the sale price, what you're doing is you're comparing the sale price to the original price. So, of course, it seems like a fantastic deal. Let's say, I don't know, you're spending $50 on something that's marked down from $100. Well, it feels fantastic. But actually, if you hadn't see the original price, the question that you should ask yourself is would you have paid $50 for this anyway?

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know that we would have, but I can't buy something. I don't want to buy something full price. That's just so crazy. Why do we do that to ourselves, Nathalie? Tell us.

nathalie Spence:
I don't know. I'm a victim to it as well. But having the original price there can really tempt us into thinking that it's a good deal.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tell us where we can find your book and where we can find out more about you.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, great. So Good Money is available in the U.S. and the UK, Canada, and Australia at all of the major bookstores. So you can find it online or on shelves. And you can follow me on Twitter @economiclogic.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Nathalie.

nathalie Spence:
Thanks so much, Bobbie. Great talking to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. Love hearing about the psychology of how we spend money from Nathalie. The book really is fascinating in all the data and analysis of why we do the things we do when it comes to money. Let's get to my take on Nathalie's story though. To some degree, this is an easy one because I could just say, guys, automate your bills. But let's actually move past that. Financial Grownup Tip #1: if you do mess up, after you put the systems in place and automate, as Nathalie and pretty much every financial expert will tell you to do, make the phone call. Get the person on the phone to undo the damage. Credit card companies will often give you a one time pass, sometimes more on the fees even if it was your fault. So take the time to ask for the penalty to be removed, even if you were actually the one that messed up. Also, know how your credit works in terms of the interest. In some cases if you don't clear the entire balance, you may still pay interest charges. So when you make that call, ask exactly how the interest works.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip #2: just because you automate the payment, doesn't mean you don't open the bills every month. Go through the charges. I have made this mistake because the bills paid, so my stress. But then you go to check the bill after skipping for a few months and you realize that maybe you're paying something that you didn't realize, like a subscription renewal. If you catch it right away, you have a good chance of canceling. But if you have, for example, a kit's annual membership and then you miss the payments for a few months, it is a tougher argument to make. So automate it but don't forget it. And of course it goes without saying that you should be looking at those bills because there could also be fraudulent charges on there. Sometimes criminals will test charging something with very small amounts to see if you notice, and then gradually work up to larger amounts. So it's really important to be vigilant and check those bills even if you automate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Loved Nathalie's book Good Money. Please do check it out. As I said, totally different approach, data, science, all that. Worth the focus that you do need to have. This is not a quick, easy page turner. This is a deep book, and it has a lot of pictures so it makes it really interesting. And the illustrations are good. But this is science. This is the real deal. I love this book. You can tell. You get out of it what you put into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So thank you for your candor, Nathalie, with your story. Thank you for helping us understand how and why we spend the way we do, and, of course, thank you for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Steward and is a BRK Media production.

Entrepreneur and Investor Barbara Corcoran explains why she believes spending money in a deliberate way even before you earn it is a smart business strategy, and shares the story of her first really big investment. And yes, she committed to it before she had the money.

In Barbara’s money story you will learn:

-How she bought her first house at age 29 (which had 8 bedrooms!)

-The importance of discussing big purchases with a significant other

-How Barbara saved $7,500 in three months

In Barbara’s money lesson you will learn:

-How she motivates herself to save money

-Why she chooses to ignore rational and take risks

-Her advice on committing to a goal

In Barbara’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Why she spends money before she has it

-How she puts herself under pressure in order to produce financial results

In My Take you will learn:

-Why it's always good to listen to different opinions and take advice from successful people

-Two negotiation tips that will save you money and help your career

Bobbi and Barbara also talk about:

-Chef Boyardee and Ramen noodles, the quick dinner that helped save Barbara money and reminded Bobbi of her childhood

EPISODE LINKS:

Listen to Barbara Corcoran's podcast Business Unusual here, and on iTunes

Watch Barbara give more business advice on the multi-Emmy award winning show Shark Tank on ABC

Follow Barbara!

Twitter: @BarbaraCorcoran

Instagram: @BarbaraCorcoran

Facebook: @TheBarbaraCorcoran

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Barbara Corcoran:
I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I start spending it even before it arrives.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, my Financial Grownup friends, brace yourself Barbara Corcoran is here and she is going to give it to us straight up, no beating around the bush and she said some things that frankly I was pretty surprised with. They go against almost everything that I've been taught about building a solid financial foundation for your life, for your business, but she made it work. I'm still not sure I could make it work for me, but I'm thinking about it because she makes a good case and I'm interested to hear what you guys think after you hear her interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
So glad you are here. As I said, this episode is a really big one, so if you're new, you're joining it a really good time. We do something by the way called flex time for podcast, the episodes are kept pretty short, around 15 minutes. The idea is no excuses you can always fit it in, make it easy for you while you're running a quick errand, what have you, but if you have a longer commute, you can also stack them. We have a library now of more than a hundred episodes so you can listen to a few on your commute if that's what worked for you. Make sure that when you subscribe and hopefully you are subscribing, we really need the support that you set the downloads, go into the manual settings and set it so that you automatically get the downloads so that you don't miss any and you're good to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we love automation because that way things just happen and it's one less thing to remember. Alright, let's get to Barbara Corcoran and you know her from Shark Tank and now she has a new podcast called Business Unusual, also really short, so that's a good thing. She gives a lot of advice that seems shocking until you listen to it and listen to her reasons and then think that is part of how Barbara Corcoran is successful. It's the unusual. She approaches things in a different way from the way that we're always used to approaching it and it works for her. It may not work for you. The big takeaway from this episode, which you'll see I'm going to talk about after her interview. I don't know if I could do it, but I can see how it worked for her. So with that, here is Shark Tank's Barbara Corcoran.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Barbara Corcoran you're at Financial Grownup welcome to the podcast.

Barbara Corcoran:
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of your new podcast. For many reasons, of course also because it's a short podcast, but you have the best wisdom and you share so many lessons from your life, so thank you for that.

Barbara Corcora:
My pleasure. I enjoy doing it, but it's a scary proposition as I'm sure you will know, you have to earn people's ears while you're talking to them.

Bobbi Rebell:
You do, well you've been earning it for many years and you're going to share a money story from early in your life, your very first real estate purchase or I should say your first house and it sounds like it's going to be a story, but there's something that happened that I think people want to hear. Go for it.

Barbara Corcoran:
Yeah, and it has a valuable lesson. When I committed to purchasing my first home with my first husband. I was about 29 years old. I didn't have a pot to pee in as they say, but we sat across the dinner table for a man who said he was selling a certain house that was like a magical house from what I heard, and my mouth said, I'll take it. And why it was magical. It was a house that anybody would think you could only dream about, which was a house with eight bedrooms two guest cottages, a wet and a dry boat house facing a brand new lake.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you have kids at this point, Barbara?

Barbara Corcoran:
No, of course not.

Bobbi Rebell:
Who was moving into this mansion?

Barbara Corcoran:
Listen, I figured I'd have fun with friends, but I had no rights saying we'll take it to which my husband was more startled than I was over my own mouth. Because we didn't have a dime to our name, we were struggling to just meet our bills. We're still kind of kids coming up the ranks, but-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so tell me what happened. How did you buy the house?

Barbara Corcoran:
Once I said we'd buy the house, we had the problem of coming up with the down payment, 7,500. And so my husband and I started eating tomato noodles every night that I think they're chef Boyardee or something in a can and bring them lunch every day and we saved every penny of what we were earning in our lives, short of the rent we had to pay for our studio apartment. Well, three months hence we had most of the down payment but not quite and we're out for dinner with the same big boss of his and he mentioned that his father, he wanted to close, which was putting ... Was scaring me to death because I still didn't have enough money.

Barbara Corcoran:
But he said his father was reluctant to leave the house and I volunteered. Well, why don't you let your father stay there, but in trade for that, I got four months extra time. So we were able to save the down payment of $7,500. No problem. But when we got to the closing, the closing costs too, which I didn't have, but he was so in dear to us for keeping his elderly dad in the house that he paid for the closing costs for us. And we moved into that beautiful house and we had it for seven years until I decided to leave my husband and he got the house.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why did that happen? How did you let that happen?

Barbara Corcoran:
You know why? Because I got the apartment in the city by then we had bought a one bedroom apartment in the city and I sold that one bedroom that I paid $80,000 for two years later for 250. And he sold that house that we had paid $75,000 for two years after our divorce for $75,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Barbara Corcoran:
I'm a believer in always committing throwing it out there and say I'm going to do it. Because when you have that kind of pressure and you've publicly committed, you find a way to get there. If you can commit to something, you'll find a way of getting there. If I had said, give me a couple of months, let me see if I could save for the house, believe me, my rational side would have kicked in and said, what are you doing? But because I said I would, I found a way that could do it and that's the truth, and most people are better than they think. If they're willing to be courageous enough to state it as low as fact and then make it happen versus the other way around.

Bobbi Rebell:
And eat a lot of canned noodles.

Barbara Corcoran:
Oh yeah,[inaudible 00:06:40] Yeah, you can do anything if you know it's temporary.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us your everyday money tip because this is also a real Barber tip because this is something that works for you may not work for other people, but it is a strategy that people might want to consider. Again, for you it works it may not be for everyone. Go for it.

Barbara Corcoran:
It's a particularly good strategy if you're out to those your own business, and I'll tell you why. My strategy is this. I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I started spending it even before it arrives. The reason for that is I have no choice but to actually make it happen whatever I'm doing. Because I know I've already committed the money. It's like putting a gun to your own head where you have to produce. If instead you wait for the money to come in and then say, okay, I've got this little extra cash. We've had a profit this month. Let's see the best use of it. That sounds rational, but I'm telling you the fever with which you attacked the best use of it is nothing compared to knowing that the bank is going to come in and chop your head off if you don't produce.

Barbara Corcoran:
So. I've always consistently put myself under pressure by spending money long before I have it and I've never let myself down. There's something magical that happens in the universe when you really under fire when you have no choice that you find a way to get there, and so I'm a big spender and on top of that I can also say, although I was born a poor kid and have my thousand dollar loan from my boyfriend, thank God, or we have been able to quit my waitress job and starting a business nowhere. Okay.

Barbara Corcoran:
But once I had that thousand dollars, I just thought, you know what? This is found money. It's a gift from God and I'm just gonna run this thing up the flag pole until somebody stops me and my most assured policy of making sure no one stopped me was to spend money in advance of having it because I had no choice but to make good on it. I had no choice and ran like a devil with a limited timeframe and I was able to accomplish 10 times more than all my competitors simply because of the pressure I had put on my own back. All right, so it's not what you read in accounting book, but I can tell you when you're building a business, it's a smarter way to go than to be calculated and do it a step at a time.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's the real world. One other quick question though, did you ever have trouble and how did you handle it collecting those receivables?

Barbara Corcoran:
No, I wrote off about 10% of my receivables because you have to appreciate. My business was selling co-ops in New York City and we had about 10% of our deals that didn't approve the Co-op association. They were turned down by the board, so I knew what that average was the first year, by the typical may be the second year in business, I realized I lost 10% of my deals, so I just wrote off that 10%. So that was realistic in suddenly a good accountant would do, but that's where my relationship or any resemblance to an accountant definitely ended in my attitude to it and everything else.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. I want to talk quickly about your, still relatively new podcast even though who would know it because it's always at the top of the charts where to I'm trying to climb, but you're there and that's a lot because your podcast is so good. It is a short one, so dear to my heart, but you also really deliver personal and as you have here very honest and straightforward advice about your life and the lessons that you have learned and your bold with it. Your most recent episode talked about quitting jobs. You quit 22 jobs Barbara, you also talk about negotiation skills. Tell me more about this podcast and why it is so different and people are really responding to it?

Barbara Corcoran:
I think people are responding well simply because I tell it like it is. And it doesn't mean if it's the person listening, but I think they leave trusting that they heard the truth and I also think I'm impatient by nature. So if you're gonna ask me what about negotiation? Most people can write a book on that. I can't. I can tell you in eight minutes flat, what the key to negotiation, what are the key moves and what doesn't work. And really I don't have more to say after the eight minutes. So I think because I have such a short attention span and because I'm so impatient by nature myself and listening, I want to know what you want out of me and what do I gotta do. And that's pretty much how I am with everybody. Get to the point and then tell me how you get there.

Barbara Corcoran:
So I do get to the point and then tell you how I get there and then the eight minutes are up and I'm signing off. I wish I was more verbose and had more great delicious detail, but I just say the main things that worked for me and I leave it at that and my sign off until the following week. So I hope it works. We'll see. It's very scary as I'm sure you know, to merit someone's eight minutes. I feel it's such an abuse or a trust that I feel like every word has to really, really count or I have no business doing its own. I'm Mostly scared, I'm scared to six days. Then I do the podcast, then I get scared all over again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you're doing a great job. I don't find you scary at all. I love it. I think you're worth investing every one of those eight minutes, so thank you for all that you do. Everyone knows where to find you, but just in case because I ask everyone, tell us where you can be found, where people can follow you on social and what else is important that's going on in your life that we should know about.

Barbara Corcoran:
Well, of course it's a Business Unusual, which is the podcast, my newest baby, but as usual, any social platform @BarbaraCorcoran is very easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you Barbara.

Barbara Corcoran:
I love you back. Bobbi. Thank you so much. And Go back to your real name, Barbara, it's such a pretty name.

Bobbi Rebell:
So if you're like me, you want to hit rewind and listen again. She's that good. And before I get to the financial bonus tips, just want to make a little comment about the food because we spend so much time agonizing over all of this organic fancy food and when we're saving money, everyone talks about the ramen noodles. I want to talk to you about the chef Boyardee that she and her husband were eating to save up money because you know what, that's fun childhood memories for me. My mom was a working mom and you know what? Sometimes we have something called spaghettios. Do you guys even know what that is? It's basically this like circle pasta in a can and tomato sauce and it's delicious. It may not have any nutrition, but if you see spaghettios in the store, I have no affiliation with them. Pick them up and try them instead of ramen noodles if you're trying to save money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just for variety, be a little bit bad. Like I said, they're probably not nutritious at all. All right, let's talk about my tips. Finance grownup tip number one. Sometimes financial advice like Barbra's goes against common stereotypical things that we hear. Here's the thing though, always listen to different opinions especially when they're from someone like Barbara Corcoran who has been so successful in so many different fields, to not only real estate where she started out, but also now with Shark Tank. She's an entrepreneur investing in so many different companies, so listen to her and give it some thought. Now I'm not telling you to go out and spend money that you don't have or even to spend on receivables, which is really what she was doing. It was money that she had contracts for but had not yet received so she believed that money was coming, but I see her point and I also see how that can create a really strong motivation so before totally rejecting it or even accepting it, play out how that would work for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
How are you going to cover things for example, if someone does not pay or if they pay, but they are on a delayed schedule so they're not paying in 30 days like your bill says they're paying 60, 90, 100, 20 days out. How are you going to finance that? You have a line of credit with your business. Are you throwing that on a credit card where you might be paying interest, late fees? What have you, factor that in. Are you going to charge a late fee to them? Barbara factored in that 10% of her expected commissions receivables were not going to happen so even she was doing that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, be creative and flexible. When you're negotiating. Barbara, let the sellers elderly dad stay in the house longer than originally planned. Again, you have to give Barbara props for being open minded and in return by the way, she got precious time and the goodwill was so strong and her gesture was still appreciated that the closing costs were paid by the seller.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is huge. Thank you all for being part of the Financial Grownup community. We bring this to you for free. The only payment we ask is that you share it with someone that you care about and that you believe would enjoy and benefit from the podcast. Your reviews and your feedback. I'm just going to tell you guys straight up there is really important. I read everyone, we don't get as many as I would like. There aren't that many there and I know a lot of you are out there. A lot of you are DMing me, which is actually really great. Still DM me, gave me the feedback, but if you can also leave reviews on Apple podcasts, that is also really helpful to get the show notice because that's how people discover the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you do want to also be in touch on social media, it's not either or guys. Follow me and DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1 that's the number one on twitter I'm @BobbyRebel and on Facebook, Bobbi Rebell as well. And big things of course to the amazing Barbara Corcoran, the ultimate Financial Grownup. Everyone check out her podcast Business Unusual and watch her on Shark Tank and thank you Barbara Corcoran for getting us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.