Top Ways for Grownups to Succeed in the New World of Work

 

Kerry Hannon, author of In Control at 50+ shares her tips for all grownups on getting ahead by keeping up no matter what grownup life stage you are in. 

 
 
 
 

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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
Kerry Hannon, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kerry Hannon:
Great to be here. Thanks for the invitation, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations on your latest book. It's 14 books you've done. The latest book is In Control at 50+: How to Succeed in the New World of Work. And by the way, you also wrote the book right before this, which is very important, was Great Jobs for Everyone 50+. So this is an emerging category I think that we need to be talking more about. Tell us a little bit about the book, but I also want to hear about the pivot that you made because many people take a pivot into solo careers around the age of 50, sometime in midlife. You just did the opposite and you're now also senior columnist at Yahoo Finance.

Kerry Hannon:
I know. I know it is crazy. I am walking the walk for the older worker, or I should say experienced worker over 50. Bobbi, I was in house for 20 years. I ran my own business for 20 years. And then out of the blue, I got this opportunity at Yahoo Finance earlier this year to come on as a senior columnist. It was just unexpected. I wasn't looking for it, but I was open to new opportunities. And that's what is really magical because it's what I've been telling workers over 50 for years now that they need to be willing to step it up, try new ways of doing things, work with younger bosses, learn new technology. Yep, I got to do all of them in the last couple of months and I'm having a blast. It is absolutely fabulous. But I've done my time in the trenches with Forbes and Money and U.S. News and USA Today. So it's just fun to add this one to my quiver, you know? Yahoo Finance. Woo-hoo!

Bobbi Rebell:
It's great. I'm a huge fan of Yahoo and Yahoo Finance in particular. I have many friends there. It's very interesting because that came so well with this new book, because you are effectively living what you are teaching people to do. And I want to go over some of the tips that you have in the book. And a lot of them, they almost sound obvious but they're not at all obvious. They're things that I never would think to do. And they're so easy and actionable. So for example, and I wonder if you did these things because... Well, you weren't proactively looking. They kind of found you.

Kerry Hannon:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
But if you were proactively looking. One tip you had was to read LinkedIn profiles of people that have the jobs you want. I love that. Tell us more about that and how that plays out and how people would do that. What to search for?

Kerry Hannon:
Yeah, I mean, you're so right, Bobbi. I mean, that is an easy thing we can all do. If you're sort of in that stage where you're looking for something new, you have an idea of the kind of work you want to do, or the company you want to work with, the most important thing is that you have the right skills, right? That you've upskilled, that you've sharpened your skills, added new things. So go to the LinkedIn profiles of people who have jobs that interest you and say, "Huh, what experience do they have? What skills do they have? Do I have those? How can I put those? How do I get that?" Because online virtual education has exploded since the pandemic. You don't have to spend a fortune to pick up new skills. You don't need a master's degree. Just dip in and you can add some new things quite easily these days.

Kerry Hannon:
And so I think that LinkedIn is... I'm a big fan of LinkedIn, if you're a white collar worker particularly. So we got to be clear there. But you can find out who you know at companies where you're interested in working. It's really a great source of research on those kinds of things. But the really simple thing is you look at what those people who have jobs that you're interested, what they have in their summary on LinkedIn, you go, "Oh, that's how they describe what they do. I think maybe I'll go change mine." And you just shift it up, you know? So it's really kind of fun because with LinkedIn, it's so simple to go in and just edit your profile anytime you want to.

Bobbi Rebell:
That said, you also emphasize that you might actually be asked for an old school resume, but you have to really focus on keywords. And this is a time when it's kind of okay to plagiarize in a way to kind of lift exact words. So tell us more about that and why people have to bother, because people might think, "Well, can't they just look at my LinkedIn resume?" I mean, that's what you thought.

Kerry Hannon:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it might be true, but it's not always true.

Kerry Hannon:
No. There's bureaucratic process that goes into this hiring stuff. So with HR, you've got to play the game. And the game today is these artificial intelligence platforms that filter out different things because it's one way employers can weed down the number of applications they get. They know they're missing out on good people, but this is the way they do it. So you have to be really game the system the best that you can. And the simplest way, to start at least, is to actually replicate the exact word that was in that job posting. So you may call yourself a project manager, but they're looking for a project director. I don't know. I'm just making that up. But change it to director and go with whatever that word is that they use. And so you have your basic resume already and to go, and you jump into the document and you just create a new one and throw in these new terms that apply to this... Customize it. Bespoke it so to speak.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also advise people to kind of take a different perspective on social media, which many people feel is something that's fun, maybe it's optional and something social, but it also can factor into whether or not you get that job.

Kerry Hannon:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you have to be very strategic. Someone's going to Google you. You Googled the company, you found out about the job. You hopefully did your research on the person who's going to interview you and found out some little tidbit about them that's helpful. They're doing the same for you. They're going to go see everything that's out there about you. So if you can, go clean some stuff up, get rid of kooky things on Facebook, or on Twitter you can delete tweets that maybe are political. Just try to stay in your lane.

Kerry Hannon:
And also one thing I found super helpful about social media is it's a great way when you're searching for a job to support other people. It's just not all about you. Look at stories you think are interesting that other people have written or research. Highlight that, share it with your people and tag that person. And they feel like, "Oh wow. They noticed that I did this." It builds a network for you, and a very easy way to do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I completely agree. And another thing that is not obvious to most people but very easy to do and obvious once we're going to say it, is to pay attention to the photo and other ways that you present yourself visually.

Kerry Hannon:
Yeah, especially as you push 60 or whatever, people go, "Oh, I don't really want to show that photo with me with gray hair or whatever." Get over it. They're going to figure out how old you are. And put a really great energetic picture of yourself up there. And I mean, energetic. Don't be a boring old headshot. Yeah, it can be a headshot, but try to show some personality. I do think it's important. They're going to find a picture of you somewhere, but also hopefully they're going to meet you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. They are going to meet you. But at the same time, just because you're not going to hide who you are, doesn't mean you have to include everything you've ever done. We don't want the four page resume. I mean, you have some advice about sort of being deliberate in how you present your resume.

Kerry Hannon:
Oh, without question. And you know what's funny, Bobbi, I always say, "It's not your obituary. It's an advertisement." So get over it. This is your song and dance time. So let's keep it down to the last 10 years of working, maybe 15, and just a little box saying additional stuff, but highlight the stuff that applies to that job that you're interviewing for. That's, again, why each job has a special resume going that direction, but you need to really customize it for that employer. One great way is just shrink it down, tell stories. We call these CAR stories, challenge, action, result. People love to read narratives. I did this. I brought in a project three months ahead of time. Whatever it is, try to quantify. People love numbers. Hiring managers love numbers. They love little stories. They do not understand titles usually or boring job descriptions.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of people may reach their midlife stage, even frankly it can happen even at the quarter-life stage, let's be honest, and they sort of don't know where they want to go in terms of their life structure and their career because it's all blending together. You have something called the You Bet Your Life exercise where you can kind of figure out where you have the most potential. Tell us about You Bet Your Life.

Kerry Hannon:
Yeah. I got to say I have to give a hat tip to Steve Dalton at Duke University's Fuqua School of Business for that one. Steve is awesome. He shared that with me and I'm owning it too. It's just a quick hit, like what is your best skill? If you have one or two or 10 seconds of maximum, just write it down, what do you think you're very best at in the whole world and maybe you're better than most anybody you know? And that kind of gives you a clue to start figuring out what it is you're really good at and what you like to do. I think these are kind of trying to put the breadcrumbs together. There's a lot of different steps, but one of the first things you need to do is, what are you really good at? And what do you really like to do? And truthfully, most of us are a little oblivious to what we're really good at because we take it for granted. We do actually know what we like to do. So how do you put those two together?

Bobbi Rebell:
And what someone will pay you to do.

Kerry Hannon:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
So we had this pandemic and it impacted all of us in different ways, but many ways were sort of universal. Many people have been frustrated with where they were in their jobs and made big changes. But for people, especially midlife and older, you really stress the idea that they should not necessarily be part of the great resignation. Talk a little bit about that.

Kerry Hannon:
Well, I actually call it the great reimagination. A lot of people may have stepped away from the workplace during the pandemic for a lot of reasons. I mean, caregiving is a big one and it's not just for kids. I mean, for me, I had my 91-year old mom living with me and she had dementia. My sister and I traded her back and forth, but it was really hard. I was hanging by a shoestring. If I had been working full time for an employer, I would've probably had to step away. So there were many reasons people stepped away. But what it did is it provided an opportunity to rethink work. It's not like they never want to work again or they never want to work even for that particular company where they were working, but they need flexibility. They need to find ways that they can balance.

Kerry Hannon:
We all, in the pandemic, did that in our MRI. We're like, "What are our priorities? What matters to us? Is it our family? Is it time that we spend doing hobbies or volunteering, giving back?" There's lots of things that go into our life. And we started to... Some of us, at the later stages of some of my readers, is you realize you have more yesterdays than tomorrows. And so this is where you, "Let's put pedal to the metal and make life matter."

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you know whether it's time to retire, resign, whatever, or to kickstart a new phase of your career or a different kind of career? How can you sort of figure out the balance there?

Kerry Hannon:
Yeah, Bobbi, that's a real tough one, because retiring, I hate that word altogether because that's like stepping away and you're... Ugh. At this stage of life, everyone should be eager to step forward to do new things. And so I think this is really a gut check, but the most important piece of it is something that you know all about is financial fitness. And if you're financially secure... And I write my book about how that is a big part of my fitness program is financial fitness, and if you are financially secure, you can make these kinds of decisions. You can choose to step off the rabbit... My brother calls it the pony at the state fair going around in circles. You can stop doing that, but you can move to do something else that might not pay as much as that primary career did, but it's something that you're using your skills that matters to you.

Kerry Hannon:
I do think debt is the biggest dream killer and the biggest stumbling block to starting your own business. People at this age, I mean, entrepreneurship is hot. I mean, it lit up for the over 50 set after the pandemic. It had already started. But self-employment and entrepreneurship is just booming for this category because people say, "Guess what? I want to be my own boss. I want to be in control. And this is what I've always wanted to do." But in order to do that, they had to be financially fit, because otherwise it's a recipe for disaster.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I just want to add the other two parts of that. You really have a three part fitness plan, financially fit, physically fit, and spiritually fit. People can read that in the book. Because we're going to wrap up, I want to give people a teaser so they can read it. It's on page 47, everyone.

Kerry Hannon:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. In control at 50+. Kerry Hannon, where can people find out more about you and the book?

Kerry Hannon:
Oh, thanks Bobbi. My website is the best. It's kerryhannon.com. K-E-R-R-Y-H-A-N-N-O-N.com. I'm on Twitter at @kerryhannon and on LinkedIn, so check in.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Kerry Hannon:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think my favorite thing about Kerry's tips is that they're always so easy to do once we are made aware of them, just like copying those keywords so the computer picks up your resume, and making sure your picture is on point. So what were your top tips from Kerry? What did you like the best? I'd love to know. Please DM me on instagram, @bobbirebell1, or on Twitter, @bobbirebell, and be sure to go to my website, @bobbirebell.com for the transcript and show notes from this and every episode and to sign up for the newsletter.

Bobbi Rebell:
My latest book Launching Financial Grownups is out. If you do choose to buy it, which I would love if you did, buy it for yourself, buy it for your friend, great graduation present, for the parents. If you do, please leave a review on Amazon. I truly appreciate it. I love doing this and your support doing things as simple as leaving a review on Amazon, it's free. That is what makes this all worth it for me. Big thanks to Kerry Hannon for making us all financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, @bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 one on Instagram, and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

 
Advice, AuthorsBobbi Rebell KaufmanKerry Hannon, Author, Success, LinkedIn