Summer Watch Party: Million Dollar Listing New York with special guest co-hosts Paulette Perhach and Erin Lowry.

Bobbi and her guests reveal their connections to MDLNY and share exclusive insider secrets and money lessons learned from the Bravo reality tv series focused on high end New York Real Estate agents in the final installment of the financial grownup summer watch party series. 

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A Little About The Show

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Well, we have to get into it because I also want to reveal the secret connection to the show that we all have. But let's briefly describe what the show is for the few people that have not seen it. It's been running for a lot of years, but we're going to focus mainly on the present year because it's really awesome. Million-dollar Listing has us following a glamorous group of New York city, real estate agents, as they jostled to get the big deals. And I always find the title funny guys, because I don't think there's ever been a deal where it was close to even just a million. These are mega deals. This season, thankfully, finally, we had a woman join the cast, which besides being obviously long overdue is also where you come in, Paulette.

Paulette Perhach:
Yes. I work with KJ bringing her power and her incredible spirit into the written word for her. I work as her writer, so it's like I get the KJ live show and she's a powerhouse. She's had an incredible effect on me as a businesswoman, just over the last year, working with her.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right and KJ, I should say is short for Kirsten-Jordan who's wonderful and she has been rising through the ranks of brokers. I don't know how she was not well known before this show because she is phenomenal. And through you Paulette, Erin and I have met her right Erin?

Erin Lowry:
Sure have. It was my first real life Bravo celebrity meeting and can I just say, I'm going to disclaimer this right now. I'm a massive Bravo fan. I watch every version of the real Housewives, but I had never watched a million dollar listings before about 24 hours before recording with this podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get into the show. First of all, each of you ladies general take on the show.

Paulette Perhach:
So I obviously have been watching it. I have it on my calendar when it comes out. I see how hard KJ works behind the scenes and then to see how it's all glammed up and like, "Oh, I'm throwing a party to sellers." And it looks so easy. So it's really fun to see behind the scenes how hard she's working. I find it inspiring. You do have to control your FOMO at like, "I will never have a pool in my New York City apartment." But in the same way that part of my business plan came from watching Shark Tank, I think we could all learn about sales from watching Million Dollar Listing and just get some fabulous decorating ideas that we can try to recreate an Ikea.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erin.

Erin Lowry:
The negotiating and sales tips and how to create a scarcity environment when one doesn't necessarily exist are really impressive takeaways from the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
On almost every episode in almost every deal the brokers come in and I'm shocked that people sometimes allow themselves to be filmed this way, knowing they're going to be basically talked about behind their back and yet on national TV about their bad taste because they come in and they basically swoop in, get rid of their stuff and stage it, which is insulting to the people that own it. To me, that's a mini-lesson about the illusion and going to something I know Paulette is very good at, which is storytelling because they basically take out the owner's story and put in the story of what they think will be worth the most money.

Paulette Perhach:
Or neutral. Right?

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:08:56]. They neutralize it.

Paulette Perhach:
So you can envision your own story without it being... That 11 Madison, I think it was, "mansion", that was a 3000 square feet inside 3000 square feet outside. That was so gaudy. It had the gold couch. I was deeply stressed watching this episode and yeah, it made sense, where it was like, "It's better to have it empty than to have this gold couch in here."

Bobbi Rebell:
The that I thought about that episode was when Tyler rented the band, I was like, "Couldn't you have just rented couches for a night instead of a band?"

Paulette Perhach:
Well, that's what Ryan Serhand said. He's like "There's chairs for the musicians, but not chairs for the brokers who are here to help you sell your place. What are young doing?"

Bobbi Rebell:
It also to the point of FOMO, I think that it also helps you see behind the curtain in some ways, even though, I'm interested to see what Paulette says about what really goes on behind the scenes more, but it helps you see that so much of what we buy is a marketing illusion. That when they stage an apartment and we see them remake it in relative to the price inexpensive way, although I'm mortified at what they spend to stage. It can be crazy money to stage these things. They're presenting it so it can sell, but there's nothing under there. Half the time the bed doesn't even have a real mattress. It's not even an actual bed and you can't actually use it. It's all for show.

Erin Lowry:
In context for people about crazy amount of money. We're talking between 70 to $150,000 to stage a lot of these apartments.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is an inconceivable film. If a broker came to me and said that would just walk away.


Money Tips and Lessons Learned

Erin Lowry:
It's interesting too, on the point of what they have to do to the apartment. And I'm really curious, Paulette for you to speak to what they as sellers have to be doing. The clothing that they have to wear, the hairstyles, they have to have the amount of upkeep of their own appearance. You see on the first episode of the season, Tyler, who I assume is a fairly new addition, maybe it was their last season season.

Bobbi Rebell:
Last season.

Erin Lowry:
He talks about the clothing that he's having to buy the amount of money he's having to put into presentation so that his vibe is matching his desired clientele's vibe. And that's a huge upfront cost. Sure, we're seeing that they're getting these commissions of like 250, half a million dollars, but also how much are they having to sink into the business as a whole? And that includes themselves.

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah. So Frederick says to spend 10% of your commissions on your wardrobe, which is a ton. That's crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're making shocked expressions by the way.

Paulette Perhach:
Shocked emoji faces. And actually Kirsten and I are working on a blog post about her deciding like what is spending and what's investing and it is so funny because when you are on the other side of the illusion, this is something that I struggle with personally, as a writer and as an artist and someone who hopes to deal in truth, but also wants to own a house one day. You know that by creating you can make more money and yet how much of your life do you want to spend in illusion and how much... I know for example, if I buy a bunch of fancy clothes and I pretend like my life is all fine and dandy on Instagram and just take pretty pictures all over the place, then I'll get more followers, I'll make more money, but how far do you want to go from that in a personal way?

Paulette Perhach:
So anyway, that's my artist's side of the thing. But yeah, I know there's a lot of pressure to match that vibe and the fashion vibe of your clients, which is a lot. It takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of planning and it's a consideration as an investment and I think more and more as my own business owner, I do realize that the face that I present to the world, I want it to be like the best expression of me and the way that I think about it as a business owner is fashion and preparing myself in a way that says, "Hey, I'm in here. This is me. And I'm in here." I want to like dress to celebrate the day. Someone said, "Dressing well as good manners."` And I really liked that phrasing. So there's so many levels to take it. And yeah, I think that when you were selling to people at the highest level of income, there is pressure to look like them and to look like them cost a lot of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erin.

Erin Lowry:
Oh, I agree. I also think it's interesting what of that is a tax deduction and what isn't, when you come to thinking about investing in yourself? I remember a couple of years ago, and if you couldn't tell from my feelings about designing my home, I feel the same way about clothing. I am bad at that. That is just a pain point I know I have. I was never taught how to dress cute fashion is not my thing.

Erin Lowry:
If I could wear athleisure all the time and get away with it socially, I definitely would. But I also realized that's a pain point you can outsource. So a couple of years ago, I hired a stylist to work with to try to learn how to dress to my body.

Erin Lowry:
What kind of brands looked good on me? How to put certain pieces together, working with what I already had in my closet. And what was interesting is because it's for a lot of professional engagements and it was professional clothing, the stylist fee could be a deduction, but the clothing itself could not. So it's always interesting, depending on your job, what you could write off and what you can't. I know people who model, for instance, I think there's certain hair, nail, stuff, type upkeep that they could possibly get a write off on. So I'm curious with luxury real estate, what are the rules for them? What is reasonable right off?

Paulette Perhach:
[crosstalk 00:14:21] have to wear makeup and heels and nice clothes to work, to make more money, that is a cost of doing business and I want to put it on my taxes. I also don't want to be audited.

Erin Lowry:
Yeah, that's a big part of it.

Paulette Perhach:
This last year in 2020, every woman should be able to put makeup on their tax deduction if we're all doing Zoom meetings all the time.

Erin Lowry:
Yes.

Paulette Perhach:
Other people did used to see you in person anyway, I don't know. I think it would be nice. I don't know. That's a whole topic. That's a rabbit hole.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a whole rabbit hole.

Paulette Perhach:
Get out while you can.

Bobbi Rebell:
What else can you share with us that you've learned from working with KJ about the show and maybe the lessons that she's learned? By the way, she's been on the podcast and she should have been there all along and there should be the fact that there's one woman and we have to make a big deal out of it is stupid. There just should be many women and whatever.

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah because 64% of realtors are women.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. But the fact is it is what it is. For now she came into this group of men, she more than held her own. So can we just talk about that dynamic a little bit and the lessons that maybe women can learn when they are suddenly as unjust as it is brought into a group of men?

Paulette Perhach:
Gosh, I think that there's... Kirsten's a powerhouse, but also just a very kind person and does it in this way where she stands in her power in such an inspiring way to me, and knows her value and is honest with people and direct, but doesn't have to come in throwing blows. It's not about anyone else it's about her and how she brings value to the situation.

Paulette Perhach:
It's like a race against herself and it's all an internal thing. It's not me versus the world, is that the sense that I get with her. And just overall watching the show as someone who is a writer who writes artistically and writes for my business, just seeing how much value storytelling has in sales. It's incredible. Every sale is a story. And for me, with writers who I have such a hard time getting my coaching clients to ask for money. Erin and Bobby, you guys have been such a part of my personal journey, learning to ask for money and learning to ask for what I'm worth. And it's just very cool to see that in this ecosystem where a lot of money is being thrown around that writers are an a central part of it.

Paulette Perhach:
And KJ is awesome because she helps moms see that if they want to have it all, they can't do it all and they need to learn to delegate and to outsource and if they want to be working moms, running their own empire. And so she's open about having a writer. She's not out there pretending, "Oh yes, I do. I have eight arms and I'm irony with my foot as I type out my marketing emails," and things like that. She is so transparent in a way that I think is not only an inspiration, but also a model to follow for other realtors.

Erin Lowry:
I also think an interesting part of her narrative is who you marry has a really big impact on your career. Especially for women, particularly those of us in heterosexual relationship dynamics, where it still tends to people defer to men more often than not. She married somebody who's also in the business, but does a different side of the business so that they can collaborate and be collaborators and push each other, but also work together.

Erin Lowry:
And I thought it was really to hear a little insight to boundary setting between the two of them. In the early episode, they talk about one of the listings that he had, that she said "I was too far along in my pregnancy to take it on when it went to market." And that's just a little boundary that you heard gets set with these two people who clearly work together a lot, but don't work for the same company, do different sides in the real estate industry. But on the flip side, she goes to Tyler's open house at the "mansion" location and her husband's there. Her husband's a developer. He can schmooze with the developer that owned the place. They can go up and see the penthouses that aren't listed. It's a very interesting ecosystem that they can create for themselves too, to really both be powerful in their own right, but also be powerful together.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a really good point. She also puts her kids in the show. She doesn't hide that she is a working mom. Some of the other people on the show have kids as well and we see them with the moms, primarily taking care of the kids, which is interesting. We got to see a lot more of the cast. I know Erin, you didn't watch other seasons of it, but we will see more of their home life because of the pandemic. And so the final money lesson strategy that I wanted to touch on was adapting to the unexpected because the show was filming while this all happened. They started filming before the pandemic and then on from there. And I met KJ through Paulette during the pandemic and I was like, "Wait, what? You're you're filming now? How is that working? You can't even show real estate." So I was truly impressed as I've been seeing the episodes of how they adapted their businesses in literally an impossible environment. They were not allowed. There were robots there. It was awesome and ridiculous at the same time. What do you guys think?

Erin Lowry:
I jumped ahead to a pandemic episode because first it was very jarring and the opening episodes that no one had masks on. I was like, "What? Who's walking around New York city without a mask what's going on here?" And they make it clear that we're backdating before the pandemic now the pandemic hit. So the two things that I found really intriguing: one, is his name Steve?Stephen? The guy who had the luscious hair that he shaved off

Paulette Perhach:
He's a former mode, by the way.

Erin Lowry:
It was said multiple times. I got that and I watched three episodes. So he went out and diversified immediately by getting his license in other states. Because as soon as stuff started fleeing Manhattan going upstate and all that property was getting hot and heavy. He got his license, I think in Massachusetts and Connecticut, in addition to having it in New York so that he could diversify out, which I thought was really interesting. And then also Ryan Serhand deciding to double down on starting his own company and making the comment about, "When others are fleeing, that's when you really need to put the pedal to the metal." As someone who did take some time off in the pandemic, because I was exhausted, it was a very interesting other side argument.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did take time off, but you also had your third seller come out. Let's just everybody of the Broke Millennials series. Okay. Those were great standup moments. Paulette, what were your standout moments?

Paulette Perhach:
I think it reminded me as a business person to just delve down into what is your core value? And accepting whatever comes our way, even though 2020 seemed like the most unacceptable year in the history of the world as we all know it. For example, I was inspired by it's Sia's choreographer did an online dance class. That was the first time that I think I laughed during the pandemic. Then I started an online writing group that meets every morning. And so just seeing how they didn't let themselves spin out all the brokers on the show and there was just a lot of positive self-talk that you could see because it's so tempting to wallow and I find myself there too.

Paulette Perhach:
But it's so much about resilience and grit is catching yourself in those low moments and being like, "Okay, I accept that this is really hard and I'm going to feel bad for myself for the next 30 seconds." And then, "All right, come on. What can we do? What do we have control of?" It felt like our locus of control shrank down to the size of a pea during 2020, but within that tiny, tiny circle, it's like, "What can I do? And how can I still help people and be of service even during this time when everything changes?" I think as the faster you can get yourself out of that cycle, the more powerful you can be as a business person.

Erin Lowry:
I was going to say, the other thing that I liked seeing, and I didn't get a whole lot of the pandemic episodes, but there were moments of celebrating small wins and I felt on both a personal front and a professional front. And that is a take away I think all of us need to have coming out of the pandemic is just taking moments of celebrating, even if it's something little or that you are deciding as little, celebrate it, be excited about it. Not everything has to be like, "I just sold a $30 million house and got a bonkers commission." Sometimes it can just be the little things that make you feel really good too.

Bobbi Rebell:
I totally agree and I also liked seeing the adaptability of not just the stars of the show, but also their clients and the realness of it, because some of it was to balance out your happy celebration moments, just the genuine sadness of a life that had to change. There's a woman on there who put her heart and soul and a ton of money into decorating her apartment to be basically Palm Beach in New York. It's very, as they like to say "Specific style." I still can't decide if I love it or hate it, but it is very intentional, very overdone to some degree, every little square foot of this apartment is decorated because she intended to spend her life there and for reasons that they don't get into huge details on the show, she has to move to Florida permanently. I was like, "Can't you rent it for a few years?"

Bobbi Rebell:
No. It's very clear this house, this apartment is being sold and she just has such a hard time even getting out of the apartment so that they can show it because she's like, "I need more time with my home." And I think that that reflected this gradual acceptance that we all have had to had at some level of, "Wow, we just have to let some things go that just, we thought were going to happen and the pandemic did change everything and we have to adapt, but it's okay to also be sad and be human." And that story really got to me and it is very much a story as Paulette likes to say.

Paulette Perhach:
It was the morning of the life that she wasn't going to have was clearly what was happening. But flip side, Tyler, who was the broker she was working with in that scene, he has a life coach and you can tell he has a life coach in that scene because he made a comment about, "Our life as a pie and this is just a slice and you're going to Florida and that's just a slice and if you don't like it, you can always come back." And I thought that was such a good way. He clearly was just trying to talk his client down to get her out of the house so he could show this apartment, but he came again with an element of storytelling and also with empathy and compassion. And it wasn't just, "Hey, if you want me to get you the most money GTFO this apartment."

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know that she cared to get every last dollar out of there. I think she just was coming to terms with this. And it's a very human show in that way, because you do see that even though there's big dollars. They flash the numbers on the screen constantly of what the apartment's asking, what the commission would be and all this stuff. There's still humans in the show. And there's a lot of stories to be told.

Erin Lowry:
I have a question For Paulette. I don't know if you've ever had this conversation with KJ, but how does she feel about just tiny slices of her income flashing on the screen national television?

Paulette Perhach:
We haven't discussed that. She's literally-

Bobbi Rebell:
That would be interesting to know.

Paulette Perhach:
... She's so busy. I would be surprised if she even saw that happened. And it's so funny. A lot of the, they talked about on the Andy Cohen show that a lot of them fast forward through the parts that other people are on. Oh my God. But yeah, they're busy.

Erin Lowry:
So do the housewives.

Bobbi Rebell:
They just watch themselves?

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah.

Erin Lowry:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so narcissistic. Oh my gosh.

Paulette Perhach:
I think the take away is that people who are making that much money are working so hard. And I know in my soul that I will never work as hard as Kirsten. And so it's like, "You want to be this successful. You want to be at this level. This is what it takes." And I look at it and I'm like, "I'm going to take a nap and then let's regroup." it's a fun thing to see. Yes, this is the payoff, but also pay attention to how hard they're working, because you only see 1% of it on the show and it's bananas.

Erin Lowry:
I love that takeaway. And I would couple it with just seeing tiny slices of what they're having to do to try to have some element of self care, or at the very least keep their appearances where they need them to be. How they get the working out in. How they get some of the cosmetology tweaks that are happening and drinking your junk juice, going to acupuncturist, whatever it is that you need to be doing and anytime any of them are in those "self care moments" and I don't know if it's for camera or what happens. They always take calls. That's the other thing they are always on call. There is no off switch on these folks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I love the human element. I love that they, as the show has grown and I think, I don't quite remember, so I could be a little bit off, but I don't think any of the original brokers when it started had families. And so for me as a longtime viewer and fan of the show, I really love seeing how we've traveled through the different seasons and hopefully for many more seasons with KJ and seeing how they've grown, how they've evolved, how they've grown their businesses and how they've grown their families. They come on a lot of these guys as single guys, and now they're all moving into family mode and it's really nice to see. And we've also had Ryan on the show, I should acknowledge as well. He was great. Maybe we'll have him on again in the future. I think that they are all very interesting characters, but also very human to us as they come across. I think Robert does a great job presenting the show and creating storylines.



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Full Transcript:


Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates. If you can't decide, use code grownup for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast. And you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.

Paulette Perhach:
You want to be this successful? You want to be at this level? This is what it takes. And I look at it and I'm like, "I'm going to take a nap and then let's regroup."

Erin Lowry:
Anytime any of them are in those "self-care moments", they always take calls. They are always on call. There is no off switch on these folks.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to money tips for financial grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grown up is hard, but together we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome friends to the fifth and final installment of our 2021 Financial Grown-up Summer Watch Party series. Having spent so much time at home in the past year and a half, one thing I've done with my time is, well, watch a ton of TV. And in that time, I have discovered there are a lot of streaming TV gems out there that have some really good money lessons. So I decided to bring on some friends, and discuss and have this summer watch party. So far, we have covered the Ashton Kutcher produced Going From Broke, which is on Crackle. Now I had not known of this network really before, but it is free, so definitely download Crackle or whatever, get to Crackle however you do, on your TV, and check out Going From Broke. It literally had me crying because the people that they have on this show were so good hearted, so well-meaning, and such interesting stories.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's just really well produced. We also talked about the new Netflix series, My Unorthodox Life, featuring entrepreneur Julia Haart, and her family and friends and coworkers. I think this family maybe the next Kardashians, but there was a lot of controversy about the show in the news because of how they presented their former life. There is a lot out there to this. Google it, just trust me. And then also obviously listened to our episode about it, and watch the show, but Google it for the controversy. In our third week of our little Summer Watch series, we got into it with some definite disagreements about whether the money lessons were good lessons, or bad lessons on the Netflix series, Marriage or Mortgage. My co-host, Andy Hill, held his own and we ended up agreeing to disagree. And then last week my husband came on the podcast to discuss and share his take on Jim Belushi's cannabis farm reality TV show on discovery, Growing Belushi, where his family actually had an intervention talking about concerns that the business was taking over his life and he didn't know what he was doing, which is kind of true. If you watch the show, you'll have to see.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sadly though, also we may have been witnessing some of the feelings that led to the recent announcement that Jim Belushi and his wife of 23 years, Jennifer, are splitting up. So we're very sad, and it's interesting. It makes the show all the more compelling to really look at what's going on behind the scenes as, yes, it's a cannabis farm and that's interesting in and of itself, but this is also someone starting a new family business and how it's impacting all of them. All of this to say it's been a great series, and if you have not listened so far, I highly recommend that you check out those episodes. This week, we have a really special show with a take on a show, a reality TV show that I can promise you, you will not hear anywhere else.

Bobbi Rebell:
We cannot possibly do a reality TV series without including a Bravo show, because who really does it better than Bravo, right? So we are going to be discussing Million Dollar Listing New York, MDLNY for the super fans. This is going to be next level because of my guests, and the exclusive information and insights that they bring to the table. Okay. First we have friend of the podcast, Ms. Paulette Perhach. Very famous writer in her own right, here to so many of us because of her F-U fund. But she also has a unique connection to the show that we will share in a moment. And we also have bestselling author, Erin Lowry, also a friend of the podcast, known for her trifecta of books in the Broke Millennial series and so much more, those introductions by the way, ladies do not do justice to all of your accomplishments, but in the interest of keeping the podcast a reasonable length, we will leave it there. Welcome.

Paulette Perhach:
Thanks for having us. I haven't heard trifecta yet. I'm going to start stealing that now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Trifecta. You did.

Paulette Perhach:
I know I did. I just had never thought... I keep saying three-part I'm like, "Ugh, trifecta so much better. Why didn't I wordsmith that?"

Bobbi Rebell:
That? Yeah. A triptych of financial wisdom.

Paulette Perhach:
Well, that's just too advanced. Get your $2 words out of here.

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:05:36] to the art world.

Erin Lowry:
We all come from the art world. Give you a triptych.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Well, we have to get into it because I also want to reveal the secret connection to the show that we all have. But let's briefly describe what the show is for the few people that have not seen it. It's been running for a lot of years, but we're going to focus mainly on the present year because it's really awesome. Million-dollar Listing has us following a glamorous group of New York city, real estate agents, as they jostled to get the big deals. And I always find the title funny guys, because I don't think there's ever been a deal where it was close to even just a million. These are mega deals. This season, thankfully, finally, we had a woman join the cast, which besides being obviously long overdue is also where you come in, Paulette.

Paulette Perhach:
Yes. I work with KJ bringing her power and her incredible spirit into the written word for her. I work as her writer, so it's like I get the KJ live show and she's a powerhouse. She's had an incredible effect on me as a businesswoman, just over the last year, working with her.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right and KJ, I should say is short for Kirsten-Jordan who's wonderful and she has been rising through the ranks of brokers. I don't know how she was not well known before this show because she is phenomenal. And through you Paulette, Erin and I have met her right Erin?

Erin Lowry:
Sure have. It was my first real life Bravo celebrity meeting and can I just say, I'm going to disclaimer this right now. I'm a massive Bravo fan. I watch every version of the real Housewives, but I had never watched a million dollar listings before about 24 hours before recording with this podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get into the show. First of all, each of you ladies general take on the show.

Paulette Perhach:
So I obviously have been watching it. I have it on my calendar when it comes out. I see how hard KJ works behind the scenes and then to see how it's all glammed up and like, "Oh, I'm throwing a party to sellers." And it looks so easy. So it's really fun to see behind the scenes how hard she's working. I find it inspiring. You do have to control your FOMO at like, "I will never have a pool in my New York City apartment." But in the same way that part of my business plan came from watching Shark Tank, I think we could all learn about sales from watching Million Dollar Listing and just get some fabulous decorating ideas that we can try to recreate an Ikea.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erin.

Erin Lowry:
The negotiating and sales tips and how to create a scarcity environment when one doesn't necessarily exist are really impressive takeaways from the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
On almost every episode in almost every deal the brokers come in and I'm shocked that people sometimes allow themselves to be filmed this way, knowing they're going to be basically talked about behind their back and yet on national TV about their bad taste because they come in and they basically swoop in, get rid of their stuff and stage it, which is insulting to the people that own it. To me, that's a mini-lesson about the illusion and going to something I know Paulette is very good at, which is storytelling because they basically take out the owner's story and put in the story of what they think will be worth the most money.

Paulette Perhach:
Or neutral. Right?

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:08:56]. They neutralize it.

Paulette Perhach:
So you can envision your own story without it being... That 11 Madison, I think it was, "mansion", that was a 3000 square feet inside 3000 square feet outside. That was so gaudy. It had the gold couch. I was deeply stressed watching this episode and yeah, it made sense, where it was like, "It's better to have it empty than to have this gold couch in here."

Bobbi Rebell:
The that I thought about that episode was when Tyler rented the band, I was like, "Couldn't you have just rented couches for a night instead of a band?"

Paulette Perhach:
Well, that's what Ryan Serhand said. He's like "There's chairs for the musicians, but not chairs for the brokers who are here to help you sell your place. What are young doing?"

Bobbi Rebell:
It also to the point of FOMO, I think that it also helps you see behind the curtain in some ways, even though, I'm interested to see what Paulette says about what really goes on behind the scenes more, but it helps you see that so much of what we buy is a marketing illusion. That when they stage an apartment and we see them remake it in relative to the price inexpensive way, although I'm mortified at what they spend to stage. It can be crazy money to stage these things. They're presenting it so it can sell, but there's nothing under there. Half the time the bed doesn't even have a real mattress. It's not even an actual bed and you can't actually use it. It's all for show.

Erin Lowry:
In context for people about crazy amount of money. We're talking between 70 to $150,000 to stage a lot of these apartments.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is an inconceivable film. If a broker came to me and said that would just walk away.

Erin Lowry:
It's interesting too, on the point of what they have to do to the apartment. And I'm really curious, Paulette for you to speak to what they as sellers have to be doing. The clothing that they have to wear, the hairstyles, they have to have the amount of upkeep of their own appearance. You see on the first episode of the season, Tyler, who I assume is a fairly new addition, maybe it was their last season season.

Bobbi Rebell:
Last season.

Erin Lowry:
He talks about the clothing that he's having to buy the amount of money he's having to put into presentation so that his vibe is matching his desired clientele's vibe. And that's a huge upfront cost. Sure, we're seeing that they're getting these commissions of like 250, half a million dollars, but also how much are they having to sink into the business as a whole? And that includes themselves.

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah. So Frederick says to spend 10% of your commissions on your wardrobe, which is a ton. That's crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're making shocked expressions by the way.

Paulette Perhach:
Shocked emoji faces. And actually Kirsten and I are working on a blog post about her deciding like what is spending and what's investing and it is so funny because when you are on the other side of the illusion, this is something that I struggle with personally, as a writer and as an artist and someone who hopes to deal in truth, but also wants to own a house one day. You know that by creating you can make more money and yet how much of your life do you want to spend in illusion and how much... I know for example, if I buy a bunch of fancy clothes and I pretend like my life is all fine and dandy on Instagram and just take pretty pictures all over the place, then I'll get more followers, I'll make more money, but how far do you want to go from that in a personal way?

Paulette Perhach:
So anyway, that's my artist's side of the thing. But yeah, I know there's a lot of pressure to match that vibe and the fashion vibe of your clients, which is a lot. It takes a lot of work and it takes a lot of planning and it's a consideration as an investment and I think more and more as my own business owner, I do realize that the face that I present to the world, I want it to be like the best expression of me and the way that I think about it as a business owner is fashion and preparing myself in a way that says, "Hey, I'm in here. This is me. And I'm in here." I want to like dress to celebrate the day. Someone said, "Dressing well as good manners."` And I really liked that phrasing. So there's so many levels to take it. And yeah, I think that when you were selling to people at the highest level of income, there is pressure to look like them and to look like them cost a lot of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erin.

Erin Lowry:
Oh, I agree. I also think it's interesting what of that is a tax deduction and what isn't, when you come to thinking about investing in yourself? I remember a couple of years ago, and if you couldn't tell from my feelings about designing my home, I feel the same way about clothing. I am bad at that. That is just a pain point I know I have. I was never taught how to dress cute fashion is not my thing.

Erin Lowry:
If I could wear athleisure all the time and get away with it socially, I definitely would. But I also realized that's a pain point you can outsource. So a couple of years ago, I hired a stylist to work with to try to learn how to dress to my body.

Erin Lowry:
What kind of brands looked good on me? How to put certain pieces together, working with what I already had in my closet. And what was interesting is because it's for a lot of professional engagements and it was professional clothing, the stylist fee could be a deduction, but the clothing itself could not. So it's always interesting, depending on your job, what you could write off and what you can't. I know people who model, for instance, I think there's certain hair, nail, stuff, type upkeep that they could possibly get a write off on. So I'm curious with luxury real estate, what are the rules for them? What is reasonable right off?

Paulette Perhach:
[crosstalk 00:14:21] have to wear makeup and heels and nice clothes to work, to make more money, that is a cost of doing business and I want to put it on my taxes. I also don't want to be audited.

Erin Lowry:
Yeah, that's a big part of it.

Paulette Perhach:
This last year in 2020, every woman should be able to put makeup on their tax deduction if we're all doing Zoom meetings all the time.

Erin Lowry:
Yes.

Paulette Perhach:
Other people did used to see you in person anyway, I don't know. I think it would be nice. I don't know. That's a whole topic. That's a rabbit hole.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a whole rabbit hole.

Paulette Perhach:
Get out while you can.

Bobbi Rebell:
What else can you share with us that you've learned from working with KJ about the show and maybe the lessons that she's learned? By the way, she's been on the podcast and she should have been there all along and there should be the fact that there's one woman and we have to make a big deal out of it is stupid. There just should be many women and whatever.

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah because 64% of realtors are women.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. But the fact is it is what it is. For now she came into this group of men, she more than held her own. So can we just talk about that dynamic a little bit and the lessons that maybe women can learn when they are suddenly as unjust as it is brought into a group of men?

Paulette Perhach:
Gosh, I think that there's... Kirsten's a powerhouse, but also just a very kind person and does it in this way where she stands in her power in such an inspiring way to me, and knows her value and is honest with people and direct, but doesn't have to come in throwing blows. It's not about anyone else it's about her and how she brings value to the situation.

Paulette Perhach:
It's like a race against herself and it's all an internal thing. It's not me versus the world, is that the sense that I get with her. And just overall watching the show as someone who is a writer who writes artistically and writes for my business, just seeing how much value storytelling has in sales. It's incredible. Every sale is a story. And for me, with writers who I have such a hard time getting my coaching clients to ask for money. Erin and Bobby, you guys have been such a part of my personal journey, learning to ask for money and learning to ask for what I'm worth. And it's just very cool to see that in this ecosystem where a lot of money is being thrown around that writers are an a central part of it.

Paulette Perhach:
And KJ is awesome because she helps moms see that if they want to have it all, they can't do it all and they need to learn to delegate and to outsource and if they want to be working moms, running their own empire. And so she's open about having a writer. She's not out there pretending, "Oh yes, I do. I have eight arms and I'm irony with my foot as I type out my marketing emails," and things like that. She is so transparent in a way that I think is not only an inspiration, but also a model to follow for other realtors.

Erin Lowry:
I also think an interesting part of her narrative is who you marry has a really big impact on your career. Especially for women, particularly those of us in heterosexual relationship dynamics, where it still tends to people defer to men more often than not. She married somebody who's also in the business, but does a different side of the business so that they can collaborate and be collaborators and push each other, but also work together.

Erin Lowry:
And I thought it was really to hear a little insight to boundary setting between the two of them. In the early episode, they talk about one of the listings that he had, that she said "I was too far along in my pregnancy to take it on when it went to market." And that's just a little boundary that you heard gets set with these two people who clearly work together a lot, but don't work for the same company, do different sides in the real estate industry. But on the flip side, she goes to Tyler's open house at the "mansion" location and her husband's there. Her husband's a developer. He can schmooze with the developer that owned the place. They can go up and see the penthouses that aren't listed. It's a very interesting ecosystem that they can create for themselves too, to really both be powerful in their own right, but also be powerful together.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a really good point. She also puts her kids in the show. She doesn't hide that she is a working mom. Some of the other people on the show have kids as well and we see them with the moms, primarily taking care of the kids, which is interesting. We got to see a lot more of the cast. I know Erin, you didn't watch other seasons of it, but we will see more of their home life because of the pandemic. And so the final money lesson strategy that I wanted to touch on was adapting to the unexpected because the show was filming while this all happened. They started filming before the pandemic and then on from there. And I met KJ through Paulette during the pandemic and I was like, "Wait, what? You're you're filming now? How is that working? You can't even show real estate." So I was truly impressed as I've been seeing the episodes of how they adapted their businesses in literally an impossible environment. They were not allowed. There were robots there. It was awesome and ridiculous at the same time. What do you guys think?

Erin Lowry:
I jumped ahead to a pandemic episode because first it was very jarring and the opening episodes that no one had masks on. I was like, "What? Who's walking around New York city without a mask what's going on here?" And they make it clear that we're backdating before the pandemic now the pandemic hit. So the two things that I found really intriguing: one, is his name Steve?Stephen? The guy who had the luscious hair that he shaved off

Paulette Perhach:
He's a former mode, by the way.

Erin Lowry:
It was said multiple times. I got that and I watched three episodes. So he went out and diversified immediately by getting his license in other states. Because as soon as stuff started fleeing Manhattan going upstate and all that property was getting hot and heavy. He got his license, I think in Massachusetts and Connecticut, in addition to having it in New York so that he could diversify out, which I thought was really interesting. And then also Ryan Serhand deciding to double down on starting his own company and making the comment about, "When others are fleeing, that's when you really need to put the pedal to the metal." As someone who did take some time off in the pandemic, because I was exhausted, it was a very interesting other side argument.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did take time off, but you also had your third seller come out. Let's just everybody of the Broke Millennials series. Okay. Those were great standup moments. Paulette, what were your standout moments?

Paulette Perhach:
I think it reminded me as a business person to just delve down into what is your core value? And accepting whatever comes our way, even though 2020 seemed like the most unacceptable year in the history of the world as we all know it. For example, I was inspired by it's Sia's choreographer did an online dance class. That was the first time that I think I laughed during the pandemic. Then I started an online writing group that meets every morning. And so just seeing how they didn't let themselves spin out all the brokers on the show and there was just a lot of positive self-talk that you could see because it's so tempting to wallow and I find myself there too.

Paulette Perhach:
But it's so much about resilience and grit is catching yourself in those low moments and being like, "Okay, I accept that this is really hard and I'm going to feel bad for myself for the next 30 seconds." And then, "All right, come on. What can we do? What do we have control of?" It felt like our locus of control shrank down to the size of a pea during 2020, but within that tiny, tiny circle, it's like, "What can I do? And how can I still help people and be of service even during this time when everything changes?" I think as the faster you can get yourself out of that cycle, the more powerful you can be as a business person.

Erin Lowry:
I was going to say, the other thing that I liked seeing, and I didn't get a whole lot of the pandemic episodes, but there were moments of celebrating small wins and I felt on both a personal front and a professional front. And that is a take away I think all of us need to have coming out of the pandemic is just taking moments of celebrating, even if it's something little or that you are deciding as little, celebrate it, be excited about it. Not everything has to be like, "I just sold a $30 million house and got a bonkers commission." Sometimes it can just be the little things that make you feel really good too.

Bobbi Rebell:
I totally agree and I also liked seeing the adaptability of not just the stars of the show, but also their clients and the realness of it, because some of it was to balance out your happy celebration moments, just the genuine sadness of a life that had to change. There's a woman on there who put her heart and soul and a ton of money into decorating her apartment to be basically Palm Beach in New York. It's very, as they like to say "Specific style." I still can't decide if I love it or hate it, but it is very intentional, very overdone to some degree, every little square foot of this apartment is decorated because she intended to spend her life there and for reasons that they don't get into huge details on the show, she has to move to Florida permanently. I was like, "Can't you rent it for a few years?"

Bobbi Rebell:
No. It's very clear this house, this apartment is being sold and she just has such a hard time even getting out of the apartment so that they can show it because she's like, "I need more time with my home." And I think that that reflected this gradual acceptance that we all have had to had at some level of, "Wow, we just have to let some things go that just, we thought were going to happen and the pandemic did change everything and we have to adapt, but it's okay to also be sad and be human." And that story really got to me and it is very much a story as Paulette likes to say.

Paulette Perhach:
It was the morning of the life that she wasn't going to have was clearly what was happening. But flip side, Tyler, who was the broker she was working with in that scene, he has a life coach and you can tell he has a life coach in that scene because he made a comment about, "Our life as a pie and this is just a slice and you're going to Florida and that's just a slice and if you don't like it, you can always come back." And I thought that was such a good way. He clearly was just trying to talk his client down to get her out of the house so he could show this apartment, but he came again with an element of storytelling and also with empathy and compassion. And it wasn't just, "Hey, if you want me to get you the most money GTFO this apartment."

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know that she cared to get every last dollar out of there. I think she just was coming to terms with this. And it's a very human show in that way, because you do see that even though there's big dollars. They flash the numbers on the screen constantly of what the apartment's asking, what the commission would be and all this stuff. There's still humans in the show. And there's a lot of stories to be told.

Erin Lowry:
I have a question For Paulette. I don't know if you've ever had this conversation with KJ, but how does she feel about just tiny slices of her income flashing on the screen national television?

Paulette Perhach:
We haven't discussed that. She's literally-

Bobbi Rebell:
That would be interesting to know.

Paulette Perhach:
... She's so busy. I would be surprised if she even saw that happened. And it's so funny. A lot of the, they talked about on the Andy Cohen show that a lot of them fast forward through the parts that other people are on. Oh my God. But yeah, they're busy.

Erin Lowry:
So do the housewives.

Bobbi Rebell:
They just watch themselves?

Paulette Perhach:
Yeah.

Erin Lowry:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so narcissistic. Oh my gosh.

Paulette Perhach:
I think the take away is that people who are making that much money are working so hard. And I know in my soul that I will never work as hard as Kirsten. And so it's like, "You want to be this successful. You want to be at this level. This is what it takes." And I look at it and I'm like, "I'm going to take a nap and then let's regroup." it's a fun thing to see. Yes, this is the payoff, but also pay attention to how hard they're working, because you only see 1% of it on the show and it's bananas.

Erin Lowry:
I love that takeaway. And I would couple it with just seeing tiny slices of what they're having to do to try to have some element of self care, or at the very least keep their appearances where they need them to be. How they get the working out in. How they get some of the cosmetology tweaks that are happening and drinking your junk juice, going to acupuncturist, whatever it is that you need to be doing and anytime any of them are in those "self care moments" and I don't know if it's for camera or what happens. They always take calls. That's the other thing they are always on call. There is no off switch on these folks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I love the human element. I love that they, as the show has grown and I think, I don't quite remember, so I could be a little bit off, but I don't think any of the original brokers when it started had families. And so for me as a longtime viewer and fan of the show, I really love seeing how we've traveled through the different seasons and hopefully for many more seasons with KJ and seeing how they've grown, how they've evolved, how they've grown their businesses and how they've grown their families. They come on a lot of these guys as single guys, and now they're all moving into family mode and it's really nice to see. And we've also had Ryan on the show, I should acknowledge as well. He was great. Maybe we'll have him on again in the future. I think that they are all very interesting characters, but also very human to us as they come across. I think Robert does a great job presenting the show and creating storylines.

Erin Lowry:
The Bravo editors are unmatched, in my opinion, in terms of editing reality content. To a dash, Netflix is starting to do some really solid reality content, but Bravo really created the mold that everyone is just trying to match at this point.

Bobbi Rebell:
Agreed. All right. Thank you so much, Paulette, where can people catch up with you?

Paulette Perhach:
You can follow me on Twitter at @pauletperhach And I also blog about storytelling and writing and business at welcometothewriterslife.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. And you also, by the way, have a growing business supporting writers.

Paulette Perhach:
Yes. So I'm a writing coach and working on creating a program called the PMSA, the profitable MFA, where I help writers lead a profitable and satisfying writer's life.

Bobbi Rebell:
All good stuff, Erin, my friend, what are you up to these days? And where can people be in touch with you?

Erin Lowry:
You can find me most actively on Instagram @brokemillennialblog on Twitter @brokemillennial. The website is brokemillennial.com. The books, all three of them are available. Wherever books are sold and also hopefully your local library.

Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely your local library. We're all an advocate for borrowing books and supporting your library. And by the way, that doesn't mean you can't tell your library to buy the books of your favorite author and in that way financially support your favorite author. That was my PSA. All right. Thanks everyone for listening. Do not forget if you enjoy the show too. Please tell your friends and share on social and tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1.

Bobbi Rebell:
For show notes, a full transcript of this show add more, go to my website, bobbirebell.com, and just look for the podcast dropdown menu. Thank you for listening everyone. And thank you, Erin Lowry, Paulette Perhach for helping us all be Financial Grown Up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Well, you can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my money tips for grown-ups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
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Advice, Authors, Financial Grownup, Investing, Money, Role Models, Women Entrepreneurs, Women Role ModelsBobbi Rebell KaufmanMDLNY, Million Dollar Listing New York, Paulette Perhach, Erin Lowry, Broke Millennial, Summer Watch Party, Summer Watch Series, real estate