Money Tips to be a Wallet Activist with author Tanja Hester
Want to have more money AND a better planet? Learn what we can control that really matters- and what we are over stressing about when it comes to climate change, waste, carbon offsets, plastic straws and all those questions about which milk to order from Wallet Activist author Tanja Hester.
Money Tips
Why you might want to consider joining the sharing economy
Donating isn’t always a good thing.
Learn what some alternatives are.
Beware the DIY trap
What it means to factor in your own financial well being and how to do that
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Website - https://ournextlife.com
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Full Transcript:
Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I mean, I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love. But the truth is, it's also really hard and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I mean, I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic and I just want something that will get them to smile.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear, with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, "I can't believe you are the grownup either." And new colors and designs of our top selling Generosity Line. And for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity Collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code holiday. Holiday. Thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays, guys.
Tanja Hester:
I love the idea of actually making yourself face up to your food waste, like put a bucket in the fridge or in the freezer and collect all the food waste that your family, or you, create for a week, two weeks, whatever it takes. Then I think most people, when you see it, it's sort of like when you really see what you're spending your money on, it's very eye-opening and that can be really motivating.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of, How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. That opening clip, from Tanja Hester, it's a bit much, while it would certainly be very impactful for my family, if we all put our wasted food in a bucket, in our refrigerator for a week, to see just how bad we are with wasting food. We already know that. Let's just be honest. We know we're terrible at it. So, that's part of why I wanted to talk to Tanja. And if her name by the way, sounds familiar, that's because she's been here before talking about her first book, Work Optional. Even though she is technically retired, that's the title of her book, Tanja is so passionate out the topic for her new book, Wallet Activism, that she couldn't help but write at least one more book. Tanja is also a familiar name to many of you because of her successful blog, Our Next Life.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now in our interview, Tanja and I talk about everything from the sharing economy on a practical basis, because we say that a lot, but I don't know if we really do it in real life. Also, her unique take on Marie Kondo, when it matters to buy organic or even grass-fed, and also why I'm being ripped off when I get oat milk in my coffee and they charge me more. Apparently, it doesn't really cost more. We're going to learn a lot more from Tanja about kind of how everything fits into the ecosystem. It's pretty interesting stuff.
Bobbi Rebell:
Here is Wallet Activism, author Tanja Hester.
Bobbi Rebell:
Tanja Hester. You're a financial grownup. Welcome back to the podcast.
Tanja Hester:
Thank you so much for having me back.
Bobbi Rebell:
I am excited to have you back to talk about your latest project. It's a book and it's a podcast called Wallet Activism: How To Use Every Dollar You Spend, Earn And Save, As A Force For Change. This is a follow-up book, well really a separate book, but your second book, to Work Optional, which I really enjoyed and was a huge bestseller. So congratulations and welcome back.
Tanja Hester:
Thank you so much.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about the money tips that you share in Wallet Activists. The first one has to do with the sharing economy and kind of taking it to a next level. This is not just about sharing an Uber ride and that kind of thing. This is about just don't buy stuff.
Tanja Hester:
Share it.
Bobbi Rebell:
But you have various specific ways this can actually happen because some people, myself included as I started to read this part of the book, are doing some eye rolls right now.
Tanja Hester:
Yeah, you know, I think that the way that our economy and society have gone, they've worked to make everything cheaper, so that we've been trained out of thinking of different ways of acquiring something.
Tanja Hester:
So let's say you're doing a home improvement project and you think, "Oh, I'm going to need a saw for this." You look at Home Depot, it's only $60 to buy a saw and you think, "Oh, that's not bad. I'll just buy it." But then suddenly we've got a situation where we all have a ton of stuff sitting around that's really resource intensive to produce, impossible to recycle, that'll be obsolete after however many years, or it'll just sit in your garage or closet and rust and not be usable after a long time.
Tanja Hester:
But instead, we could all go back to how folks used to think about these things. I'm not saying this to like, oh, the good old days were the best or anything like that. But in this particular area, the idea of borrowing things or why does everyone on a block need own their own lawnmower? Why couldn't you share with different neighbors? Why couldn't you rent a saw or a drill for the project and then give it back and someone else can use it.
Tanja Hester:
A lot of the tips that I offer, I think this is a good example, are both good for the planet and other people, so we're not contributing a whole bunch of demand for stuff that's ultimately just going through our resources, resulting in a lot of carbon emissions, resulting in exploitation of workers, but it's also saving you money. You know, renting a power tool is a lot cheaper than buying it. The same is true if you share something across multiple neighbors, or friends, or whatever makes sense in your situation. Obviously not everybody has a house and a yard, but fill in the blanks with your stuff.
Bobbi Rebell:
You talk throughout the book, by the way, about factoring in your own financial wellbeing and it's important to look out for yourself and don't always be... The dominant thing doesn't have to always be giving, giving, giving. Part of giving is creating your own financial foundation and maintaining it.
Bobbi Rebell:
You also say some things that make sense, but only after you explain it, because they're a little bit counterintuitive. For example, Marie Kondo, cleaning out. Minimalism has been a big trend, but it's not really that simple. You have some interesting thoughts about donations and what we do with our stuff because we all have so much stuff. We think we're doing good when we donate it and we certainly have good intentions, but explain. It's not so simple, right?
Tanja Hester:
Yeah. You know, the most important part to me of Marie's message is actually take good care of the things that you own and help them last longer. I think that part's been totally lost in favor of, trash anything that doesn't spark joy. The problem is that we have such a huge flow of things going to donation centers. You know, everybody loves to take their garbage bags full of stuff to Goodwill, that most of what Goodwill does is actually not sell our discards. It's actually throw them away and they pay a huge amount of money every month, as do other charitable organizations that take donations in physical form, just to send stuff to the landfill.
Tanja Hester:
I think if we all knew that what we were donating was most likely either going to the landfill or worse, getting loaded on a ship and sent to Africa, where it was decimating local textile industries, I think we would be a lot more thoughtful about it, but we feel like we're sending stuff out and it's doing good rather than we're sending stuff to the trash, I think we would approach things differently.
Tanja Hester:
So, I propose a different standard rather than sparking joy or using it, and thinking instead about, could I get more useful life out of this and maybe it's repurposing it in some way. It doesn't have to be wearing a dress that you hate forever, or a dress that doesn't fit. You know, it's thinking, could I use the fabric and make something else with it or whatever it might be. If you can't that, then working a little bit harder to put those items, you're discarding into the hands of someone who will actually use them, rather than just sort of blindly sending them off to the donation center.
Tanja Hester:
So rather whether it's trading with friends, or listing things online, or on a buy nothing group, there's so many different options now for discarding things a bit more thoughtfully, that will make sure we're not just sending huge amounts of stuff to the landfill and even worse than filling that empty space with new stuff.
Bobbi Rebell:
Very well said. And you have a lot of specific resources in the book and through your website, et cetera, that we can refer people to, to get more details on how to actually do that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Another interesting thing, we're talking about activism, but also money tips, is to be aware of the DIY trap. People think if they do it themselves, they're going to save money and it's all good and it's great, but there's a lot to be wary about there.
Tanja Hester:
Yeah. You know, I think if folks have hobbies that are doing things yourself, making kombucha, for example, that can actually be a great way to save resources because you don't need special gear to make kombucha versus buying a steady stream of bottles from the store. If you like to drink it often, you can reuse the same bottles over and over and over, if you make it yourself.
Tanja Hester:
But there are other things that are DIY where you sort of say, "Well, you know, if everyone just did this ourselves, we'd actually save resources." And that's in fact not true. If we all tried to grow all our own food, think about how much more equipment we'd all need. We'd all need hoses and tools and all the things you need to garden. I garden myself. It's my favorite hobby, but I do it because I love it, not because I'm under any illusions about it being some better way, where we'd also have to all spread out across the land when we should be leaving more of that land alone so that it can sequester carbon and just not have human impact on it.
Tanja Hester:
I think about a lot of folks I know here who love to home brew. And if you really love that and you're going to do it for a long time, that's great. But if you're thinking, "Oh, I buy a lot of beer and that comes with cans and bottles." Think about how much gear you actually need to do home brewing. You need all these buckets and you need metal tubes and you need a lot of stuff. And if you do what a lot of folks do, which is invest in all the gear and then give up that hobby, you've now gotten a whole bunch of stuff that's very specialized, that you can't easily use for other things, and then you're still having all the waste of the bottles and cans. Which by the way, bottles and cans, people shouldn't stress about. Just make sure they get recycled. Those are actually recycled at a high rate and are not a huge deal.
Tanja Hester:
So, that's really where I say it. It's also, I don't want anyone to feel pressure to DIY things, when you have a very busy life and you've got demands on your time. You need to work. You need to earn a living. All the things you need to do. I say, do DIY stuff if you love it, if it's fulfilling to you in some way but don't feel like you must. If that's not something that's doable for you, there are other good ways to be a wallet activist.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that theme that also runs throughout your book where you do talk about the fact that people should be realistic about what they can do. It doesn't have to be all at once. You don't need to overhaul your life immediately upon reading the book and treat it like a checklist and go through each thing.
Bobbi Rebell:
And most importantly, don't be judgy about other people. You make a big point about the fact that if you feel passionate about something like I don't eat meat and it's for a number of reasons, but I'm also aware of a lot of the things that you talk about in the book. But I don't tell other people not to do that. I just say, "I don't eat meat," and I leave it at that. Let them do that. If they ask you more questions, then absolutely you can share some more information, but it's important to not impose your views too strongly because it can backfire.
Tanja Hester:
It absolutely can backfire. You know, I think there is ample research to show that shaming people doesn't work. Shaming corporations, that can work.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. That's a PR campaign. That's a whole different thing.
Tanja Hester:
Yeah. Shaming, very, very wealthy people can work in some instances. But shaming individuals really doesn't work and so there's no point in doing it.
Tanja Hester:
But the other thing and something that I really set out to do with this book is to balance both environmental concerns and human concerns. Oftentimes, those things are posited as opposites, as you can do one but not the other, and I just reject that. I think it's so important that we start thinking about both our fellow humans and the planet together and when we talk about climate change, that we're also talking about inequality and how all of that ties together. That's a big part of it.
Tanja Hester:
I think sometimes in the interest of making an environmental choice, we do things that hurt people. An example I use in the book is the popularity right now of plastic drinking straw bans that are going into place all over the country, all over the world. Those are doing a lot of harm actually to disabled communities. There's this thought of like, "Well, but you have all these other choices. You could use a paper straw." Well guess what? A lot of disabled folks say those don't work. They don't work in hot beverages. They aren't positionable.
Tanja Hester:
Okay, well what about that fancy stainless steel straw? Well, not everyone can afford that. First of all, they're expensive. And second, how are you supposed to clean that on the go and use it every time you're out and about. And so we just aren't having enough of that conversation of balancing both. And so if you're talking about shaming people who use single use plastics, or my favorite is seeing the tweet, that's like, "Hey, look at this peeled apple that's wrapped in plastic." Like, yeah. Okay. That is a lot of plastic. That's a bummer. But guess what? The people who need that are people with disabilities, where they can't use their hands properly, or they don't trust themselves to use a knife.
Bobbi Rebell:
I want to go through kind of a quick hits list of food advice because this was my favorite area of the book.
Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, the question on everyone's mind, the whole organic thing and I'm going to throw in there the whole grass-fed thing, because my son Bradley, he wanted everything grass-fed for a while and it's really expensive, but is it bad if we don't buy grass-fed everything and organic everything? I know the prices are coming down for organic, but talk to us.
Tanja Hester:
Yeah, it's funny. Organic is often posited as sort of the panacea. This will fix everything and if you actually look at the science of it, and I say this as a person who loves to buy organic, so I'm talking to myself here too. The truth is a lot of organically produced food actually has a much bigger climate impact than things that are produced more conventionally.
Tanja Hester:
With grass-fed beef, for example, or grass-fed dairy, the cows have to live a lot longer because grass is much less caloric than the grain they're fed in feed lots and so the cows who live in feed lots, those are terrible conditions. I think we can all agree on that and they have a lot of waste they have to deal with. It's not a good system. We need to reform it, but those cows live less than half as long, to get to the same size as the cows that are fed grass.
Tanja Hester:
So if we are just looking at how much beef we want to produce, grass-fed actually has a much, much higher climate impact. So that's not to say-
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Tanja Hester:
Yeah. It's not to say the industrial side is great, but organic is not automatically a cure-all. I recommend that folks look at organic for most animal products, if possible, and certain produce, especially things that are grains, so that you're avoiding Roundup glyphosate. But I think folks will be shocked to hear that I recommend a lot of non-organic too, because of both the climate impact and the worker impact.
Tanja Hester:
There are a lot more injuries associated with organic fruits and vegetables because they have to do absolutely everything by hand. So those are important things to consider that I haven't seen be included in the conversation so far.
Bobbi Rebell:
What do we do about the whole milk options thing? Because first I was putting almond milk in my coffee. I felt really good about it and then I heard it was really bad. Now I'm doing oat milk but I also feel like rice milk. But I know from your book, rice milk is also not so good. So what do we do? What do we do, Tanja? And the price is that they're always charging me more for... I mean, do we have to pay more for the oat milk? Is it really more for the oat milk or are the coffee place is just charging us more because they can?
Tanja Hester:
With oat milk in particular, they're charging you more because they can. Oats are incredibly cheap to produce. If you were getting organic oats, which is actually really hard to find, that could be worth it.
Bobbi Rebell:
I have no idea.
Tanja Hester:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
No idea.
Tanja Hester:
Most oats are sprayed with Roundup and people don't like hearing that, but the pesticide and herbicide levels in oat-based products are really high. In terms of dairy, non-dairy milks, I mean honestly, I think the answer I want to give folks is don't stress that much about it. Any plant-based milk is better for the planet, for people, for animal welfare, than dairy.
Tanja Hester:
So this getting ourselves tied up in knots about how many gallons go into a gallon of almond milk? Okay, yeah. Like that's true but it also is true that we're reforesting California Central Valley, when we grow almond trees that are replacing cotton, which is a much more water intensive crop.
Tanja Hester:
So everything exists on a spectrum. My point is not to try to get people twisted in knots. It's to say actually, stop twisting yourself in knots. If you're doing any non-dairy milk, you're doing great. Do organic with soy and with oat. With the rest, don't stress about it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Final question before we wrap up. Give us your tips about food waste because food waste really costs people so much money, myself included. I am terrible at food inventory management. Things go bad all the time. I have the best intentions. I want to do a fancy recipe and then I'm missing one ingredient. I don't do it that night and then it just never happens and that fabulous herb that I bought goes bad. What do we do?
Tanja Hester:
Yeah. You know, food waste is a huge, huge problem. So some tips are, a lot of these I think folks have probably seen around, but making a meal plan before you shop, trying not to shop for a few weeks so that you can eat down what you already have. I love your example of the recipe. You know, don't buy some fad ingredient unless you have the recipe and have all the things for it and you know, you're going to make it right away.
Tanja Hester:
I love the idea of actually making yourself sort of face up to your food waste. Put a bucket in the fridge or in the freezer and collect all the food waste that your family or you create for a week, two weeks, whatever it takes. And then I think most people, when you see it, it's sort of like when you really see what you're spending your money on, it's very eyeopening and that can be really motivating. So once you see the types of foods you're wasting most, or where the sources are, you can start to come up with a plan. Maybe it's serving smaller portions for everyone, but letting them take seconds instead of putting big portions on the plate. Once you've sort of come face-to-face with your food waste, you can make a plan to reduce it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I'm kind of sitting here processing that, getting ready to reveal that to my husband, who I'm sure will be thrilled to have all of our food waste in our refrigerator, front and center, for a week. So we're going to work on that here in my home, but in the meantime, Tanja, congratulations on the book again.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people be in touch with you? I know the book is going to be available everywhere, so please pick up Wallet Activism, everyone. Where can they reach you?
Tanja Hester:
My website is ournextlife.com and I'm most active on Twitter and Instagram and that's at our_nextlife. I also recently joined TikTok, which is so embarrassing for a person over 40. That's @walletactivism.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love it and you have a podcast as well, right? Now with Wallet Activism?
Tanja Hester:
Yes, that's right. It's called Wallet Activism, same as the book, and you can find it in all the podcast places.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.
Tanja Hester:
Thanks for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
So many takeaways from our interview. I personally am bracing for a big post-pandemic closet clean-out and knowing what Tanja had to say about what really goes on when we donate clothing and other goods to charity is really making me think twice about what to do with all of that. So I'm definitely going to be checking out those, buy nothing groups, because I really have so much stuff that is perfectly good. I don't want to throw it out because it's perfectly good but if I said it to charity, well, it may not get to the right place either.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay my friends. There was a lot to digest in this episode, but do not stress. We have it all for you right on my website. You can get a full transcript of the show, along with resources and so on, by going to my website, Bobbirebell.com and just click on the podcast tab.
Bobbi Rebell:
What got you thinking in this interview? For me, it was the whole plastic straw thing. It shows we really have to think broadly about these decisions and there's a lot of gray areas out there. You really have to think through what this means for different people versus what this also means for our planet. It's complicated. DM me and let me know your take and what really stood out to you. On Instagram, I am at BobbiRebell1. The number one.
Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to Wallet Activism author, Tanja Hester, for helping us all be financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Money tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall.
Bobbi Rebell:
You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, Bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a Financial Grownup.
Bobbi Rebell:
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