Ashley Kaufman, who bought her NYC apartment at age 24 shares how she did it, plus her best money tips for financial grownups. 

Money Tips

• Be the planner of the friend group

• Always be searching for discounts

• Have a monthly self reflection session on your spending

• Don't make yourself feel bad for spending money, but live within your means, do not spend more than you have

• Always buy pet insurance!

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• Instagram - @ashleykaufman and @walnutthemaltese
  

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends, a big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you.

Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work. But I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Ashley Kaufman:
When it came to moving into the apartment, I made a running list of here are all the things that I'm going to need to purchase, from a spatula to a couch. It came down to me creating the Excel spreadsheet with three different retailers and a column for more specialty items and comparing the prices. Maybe the items wouldn't be exactly the same at three different stores, but it would be close enough that I could decide between each of them and compare the prices because every cent counted.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
The big question I am constantly asked about my book, Launching Financial Grownups is, did your stepdaughter really buy her apartment at age 24? Then, how did she do it? Then, how can we do it? Well, the truth is, she focused and she made some really tough choices. It was not all perfect to say the least. Ashley also truly embraced the financial grownup lifestyle. You're going to hear more about that soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ashley wrote the epilogue to the book, Launching Financial Grownups, but until now no one has heard directly from her about all the details. Ashley not only reveals in her interview exactly how she did it and what she might do differently, she also is going to share her top money tips, including some that I am adopting myself. Yeah, you can tell I'm pretty proud of her. Here is my 25-year-old stepdaughter, Ashley Kaufman.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ashley Kaufman, you are a financial grownup and I can't believe I'm saying that after I've known you since you were eight years old. Oh my gosh. Welcome.

Ashley Kaufman:
Thank you for having me. Can't believe it's taken this long to get on the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. First of all, let me just say that you're the first of your siblings to come on the podcast, and your father has come on for our Summer Watch Series, and he does want to return. But he never came on to give actual money advice, money tips like you are, so you are special, Ashley.

Ashley Kaufman:
Thank you. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to get to your money tips, which by the way, a lot of people know you because you wrote the epilogue to Launching Financial Grownups. It's been a big hit. Everyone says that is the best part of the book. I get a lot of people asking me something that we talk about in the book, which is the fact that you bought an apartment at age 24. I want to give you a chance to talk about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you do it in short, but also how has it been? Because the book was written really a year ago, more than a year ago at this point and a lot has happened.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yeah. I was able to do it in short, by saving a lot, living at home after college and saving every dollar that I made. Immediately after graduating from college, I picked up a summer job, even though I had a job starting in August where I work now. I picked up that job with the intention of continuing to save and aggressively saving so that I could buy an apartment and move out.

Ashley Kaufman:
Not that I didn't enjoy living at home and eating with Harry every night, but when you're 22 and moving home after college, you really want to move out and live your own life like all of your friends are. So it was definitely hard in that regard just because I saw my friends living their own lives, renting apartments all over the city and furnishing them and making it their own space. I felt a little claustrophobic, just kind of like, I don't have my own space. I'm living at home.

Ashley Kaufman:
But in the end it's been worth it. I absolutely adore where I live now. It took a little bit of adjustment after moving in also to just make it feel like home, and it's taken the majority of the year to get there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before I get to asking you about how it is living in your own apartment, tell me about the choices that you had to make, because it sounds simple, "Well, I just saved a lot of money by living with my parents." But it's not really that simple. You did have to make some choices and you did miss out on some things or make adjustments to your plans many times.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yeah. I think COVID helped a lot and not being able to go out with friends. I did also miss out on some things my friends were doing, like going to music festivals, which in retrospect seems like it was a massive waste of money anyway, but seeing all my friends there and having a good time, it definitely felt like I was missing out on something.

Ashley Kaufman:
There were also times where my friends would be going out to brunch every week and I just wouldn't go along with them because every dollar ended up counting. I was really tight when I did put the down payment down on my apartment and then had to go buy furniture, so every dollar ended up adding up to allowing me to live where I am now.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing that stuck with a lot of people in the epilogue in Launching Financial Grownups is you said something like, "I love Excel. I'm an Excel kind of girl." How did you use systems to help you save the money, track money, and then help you when you were moving into this apartment and setting up your own home?

Ashley Kaufman:
Yeah. I do love Excel. I took a course on Excel in college, and since then, just everything has been in Excel. I have my monthly budgeting in there, which I have since college. I have a list of my running expenses that are the same every month, as well as a list of things I would like to do that month. If it doesn't add up to have me saving what I would like to be saving every month, I will make cutbacks and adjust, but Excel really runs my life.

Ashley Kaufman:
I mean, I have tabs for vacations I want to go on, I have tabs for, here's an expense that comes up once a year, like renewing my pass to the zoo, which I really enjoy, but I have to budget for that. It helps me keep track of that. When it came to moving into the apartment, I made a running list of here are all the things that I'm going to need to purchase, from a spatula to a couch. It came down to me creating the Excel spreadsheet with three different retailers and a column for more specialty items and comparing the prices.

Ashley Kaufman:
Maybe the items wouldn't be exactly the same at three different stores, but it would be close enough that I could decide between each of them and compare the prices because every cent counted.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, what advice would you give to other people that have short-term, but big goals? Not necessarily buying an apartment, because not everybody wants to do that. It's not the right choice for everybody. People might want to move around, have other priorities, but if they have a short-term goal, what's the best way to get there?

Ashley Kaufman:
To really take a step back and look at what you're spending and do I really need be doing this? I mentioned earlier that I have a zoo membership. Maybe every year, I don't need to renew that if I don't see myself going, and I have a financial goal that I need to hit, or let's say something like I've been looking into buying a new couch. There's small steps that you can take to get to where you need to go by just taking that step back and reviewing all of those choices.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just being accountable and doing a self-audit of where you are right now and what matters most to you for that season of your life.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. That goes into our money tips that you brought with you that are new money tips, but I think makes so much sense for everybody, not just young people, but it's very relatable, certainly in the young adult phase of life that you're in and you're 25 years old right now. I can't believe it.

Ashley Kaufman:
I know.

Bobbi Rebell:
The first of five money tips that we're going to get into has to do with, I would call it the FOMO thing, like your peer group and what's going on there. What's your money tip there?

Ashley Kaufman:
My money tip for friend groups is to always be the planner in the friend group, by being the planner, you can be cognizant of other people's requirements while also staying within your own budget. If people want to go out at night to say a club or something, you don't have to go to the fanciest nightclub to go have a good time with your friends. Some people might want to in your friend group, but other people might not be able to afford it.

Ashley Kaufman:
You can really make sure that you are courteous towards others while also staying within your own budget and maybe the budgets of your friends, if you're aware of their needs and requirements financially as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that because we tend to think just reflect on ourselves like, "Wow, this is a stretch for me financially." But we also may not realize that it may be a stretch for everybody, but nobody really wants to say anything. It's actually a really considerate thing of your friend group to bring up the cost and to be the planner and control those things. Your second money tip is something your dad has gotten so good at and I'm so proud of him, and it has to do with making a little extra effort when you're buying stuff.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yes. My second tip would be to always search for discounts, which goes back into being a planner. If you want something, wait for it to go on sale, wait to find a discount of some sort. If it's travel, be planning over a year in advance and make sure that you are tracking any sort of discount. Marriott hotels I know specifically you can cancel up to 24 hours in advance or up to 48 hours in some cases so it doesn't hurt to book something while you're searching for something else, or searching for a better deal.

Ashley Kaufman:
There are also corporate discounts to look at at larger companies. Discounts through loyalty programs. I'll occasionally get something in my inbox from Marriott due to my status. You get X, Y, and Z number of extra points for participating in this program we have going on, or memberships like Costco. Costco Travel actually has some great deals to be found.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Your money tip number three has to do, I think, with the ultimate in wellness and self-care.

Ashley Kaufman:
My third money tip is to always have a monthly reflection session. Whether you think that you need it or you don't, you probably do. It's just sitting down with your monthly credit card statements and your bank statements, and just seeing where there could be changes. It doesn't necessarily need to be cutting things, but it could be you have a subscription service like Ipsy or Birchbox, but every time you walk into TJ Maxx or Petco, you're buying makeup or things for your dog.

Ashley Kaufman:
You could be canceling those subscriptions and spending it on items that you really want, rather than what's just showing up in a subscription box.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's really good advice. I'm going to give that some thought, because I have a makeup/skincare subscription box that comes four times a year, that I do love the surprise element of it, but the truth is that they're not necessarily things that I would buy. I'm going to take that one to heart, Ashley. All right. The next one has to do with really the emotional elements. It's an emotional money tip.

Ashley Kaufman:
My next tip would be to don't make yourself feel bad for spending money, but live within your means. Don't spend more than you have, but don't make yourself feel bad for going out for a $5 coffee with your friends. I'm very guilty of this.

Ashley Kaufman:
I will occasionally cancel plans because I feel like it's not within my budget and it makes you feel bad because number one, you're ruining relationships with friends, and number two, you're really are developing an unhealthy relationship with money, where you feel like you have to cut something else in order to make up for something that really isn't hurting you that much.

Ashley Kaufman:
If it's not within your means, go ahead, cancel the coffee date with your friends. But if it's really not going to stop you from paying your bills that month, it might be okay to spend a little extra.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would add that don't forget that at many coffee shops like Starbucks, even though you think the smallest one is a tall, there's actually a short, which is even cheaper. You can get a short, plain coffee and have your coffee plans and not spend as much money as you... You don't have to spend for the 7 or $8 fancy espresso drink.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number five is my favorite of all, because you are a new pet owner, which is something that you did wait to do until you could afford it. We had a lot of financial discussions as a family because you have a dependent, Ashley.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yeah. Yeah. We just brought home my little dog, Walnut. She's a Maltese puppy. She is my entire world, but my tip related to dogs would be to always buy pet insurance, cats, dogs, whatever you can insure, always insure your pets. It should never be a question of whether you can afford care for your animal. I built my $500 deductible into my emergency fund when I went and signed up for pet insurance.

Ashley Kaufman:
I know that if something happens with my dog, it's a $500 deductible that I've covered in my emergency fund and then my insurance will cover 90% of it. I don't have to worry about calling the vet for the smallest of things. My dog had an episode in the middle of the night a few weeks ago where she was shaking. It wasn't super concerning, but I didn't hesitate to call the vet and find out that it was probably normal because I knew that I could cover the cost.

Bobbi Rebell:
I remember when you were thinking about adopting a dog, that you really in advance researched all the costs, including medical costs. I think that was so important because it is a dependent and it is important to understand the full scope of what you could be in store for, because you love your puppy. You're never going to say no and it's important to know what you're in store for. I was so proud of you just in the run-up to getting Walnut.

Ashley Kaufman:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, final thoughts and where can people be in touch with you? I know Walnut, the Maltese, is a big star as well so people might want to follow her.

Ashley Kaufman:
You can follow me on Instagram @AshleyKaufman or Walnut @Walnutthemaltese. Walnut is much more interesting on Instagram than I am, I have to say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you are the brains behind the Walnutthemaltese Instagram account, so you get credit for both accounts. Thank you so much. I'm so proud of you, Ashley.

Ashley Kaufman:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, Walnut is starting to get inquiries for brand deals. She is so unbelievably cute. Feel free to DM @Walnutthemaltese on Instagram. I loved how candid Ashley was about the importance of having a healthy relationship with money and prioritizing living your life. She's okay missing some music festivals that frankly, she probably just wasn't that into anyway, but she does kick herself for foregoing coffee plans with a friend because she's so committed to staying on budget. It's delicate.

Bobbi Rebell:
I've talked about my own issues letting go and letting myself spend money. The lines are blurry on this, but when it comes down to it, money is the means to do what you want, so do what you want. Apply that thinking and don't let an unhealthy relationship with money keep you from living your life. I would tell everyone to replay this episode, but the truth is, we have it all for you in the show notes. Just go to my website at bobbirebell.com for those. It also will give you a full transcript.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also can sign up for our newsletter there, where we send podcast previews and interesting news articles to you just twice a month. I haven't asked this in a while, but please take a minute and write a review of the podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you enjoy listening to us. Biggest thanks to all of you for supporting the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please, please help me get the word out. Tell a friend, share on social and just keep listening and being in touch on all the socials. Big thanks to Ashley Kaufman for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complementary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Episode Description: Kirk Chisholm of Innovative Advisory Group and the host of the Money Tree podcast shares some controversial viewpoints that may have grownups questioning the market assumptions we take for granted.

Timestamps & Main Points:

• 00:00- Introduction

• 06:56 - Half Truth #1

• 07:30 - Cash is trash

• 09:09 - Half Truth #2

• 11:26 - Half Truth #3

• 11:52 - Where do people invest?

• 13:45 - Diversification is volatility management.

• 15:45 - Half Truth #4

Kirk’s Bio:

Kirk Chisholm is a wealth manager and principal at Innovative Advisory Group, Host of the Money Tree Investing Podcast and all around interesting guy. He is an outside the box thinker who provides a different perspective on many commonly held beliefs in personal finance. He has a rare expertise with alternative investments held in self-directed IRAs which has helped many investors invest in their passion. Kirk was recently recognized as one of the top 100 most influential financial advisors in the US by Investopedia.

Links to resources mentioned in the episode!

• https://www.bobbirebell.com/podcast/

• bobbirebell.com/cleanmyMac

• www.moneytreepodcast.com

Follow Kirk!

• Facebook - @Money Tree Investing

• LinkedIn - Money Tree Investing Podcast

• Website - www.moneytreepodcast.com & www.innovativewealth.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• TikTok - @bobbirebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Subscribe to the newsletter.

3. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

Hey grownup friends. There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing, even though it can be a bit embarrassing, I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason. Because when you have so much junk on your computer, because you're not as organized as you should be, because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do. If you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity. For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done, only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating. A little while ago I decided I was going to stop just kind of hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it.

I downloaded something called CleanMyMac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up, and CleanMyMac would ask me for my okay before deleting files, so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears. I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my financial grownup listeners who want to also get CleanMyMac. To get that 10% off CleanMyMac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac, B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L dot C-O-M/cleanmymac. And that is all one word. I promise you, you'll be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me. So worth it.

Kirk Chisholm:

Diversification's not really protecting you. Diversification is volatility management. Risk management doesn't work because the markets have changed in the last 20 years where now big selloffs affect everything including bonds. So that's why you have to be aware. You can't just diversify and say, "I'll be okay." Because this year, stocks, bonds, everything was down similarly. So you really weren't protected by diversifying.

Bobbi Rebell:

Your listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

This interview was like a punch to the gut. I'm still processing it, my friends. As you heard in the clip at the top of the episode, my guest has some very strong opinions about how we see the market, how we approach investing and maybe now with the market having such a rough year, now is the time to take a step back and really reexamine so many of the market truth that we just take for granted, and I'm in there. I take a lot of things for granted, things like buy and hold and don't miss the best 10 days of the market, things like that. Things we talk about and we just assume are great investing advice. But maybe not. Kirk Chisholm runs Innovative Advisory Group. You may also know him as the host of the Money Tree podcast. Kirk has been in the investment advisory business for decades, and he's developed perspectives that you may or may not agree with. But I can assure you, you want to hear. I'm still processing, as I said, a lot of what he said, but Kirk really made me think about things that I took for granted and at least question why do I take them for granted. I have a big takeaway I'm going to save it for after the interview here is Kirk Chisholm.

Kirk Chisholm, you are a financial grownup. I am so happy to finally, finally, finally have you on the podcast. So welcome.

Kirk Chisholm:

Thank you for having me on, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:

For disclosure, the reason I'm laughing so much is this is actually our fourth attempt. Most of our failures were because I have had various illnesses highlighted by a wonderful experience with COVID. We've also had some technical issues. So we are finally here and I'm so excited to get it done and have you on the podcast and I'm going to be on your wonderful podcast, the Money Tree at some point in 2023, you also have a firm called Innovative Advisory Group as well is a great investment option for many people. Tell us a little bit about that and your philosophy and then we're going to get into investing half-truths.

Kirk Chisholm:

Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks Bobbi. Thanks for having me on the show. I love your show by the way, so your listeners are very lucky to have you.

Bobbi Rebell:

Thank you.

Kirk Chisholm:

Yes. So basically I've been in the industry for about 23 years and I started in the broker dealer side at Paine Webber, back when it was Paine Webber, then UBS, and Smith Barney, and then decided to go out my own because I just didn't see the value of the big firms. There was a time where they did have them, but then at everyone was a little bit more the same. So it just didn't have the same value. So what we did is 2008, we've started Innovative Advisor Group with the idea that you could have outside the box strategies. Because most of the industry is very regimented and it's very kind of inside the box. You have to do these things in a certain way and that's not how investing works. Talk to any real estate investor, they put all their money in real estate, they don't touch the stock market. Why should they? Right? If they know invest in what they know as Peter Ellens used to say.

So we focused on investing outside the market, in alternatives inside of retirement accounts. And of course we do traditional strategies, but I think the alternative stuff is really fascinating because some of the best investments we've seen have been on the alternative side.

Bobbi Rebell:

And you do specialize in alternative investments I should say. You mentioned 2008, here we are in closing up 2022 as we record this both very, let's call them interesting years for investing. Certainly challenging in a time when it makes sense to sort of reexamine the things that we sometimes take for granted when it comes to investing. And we're going to get through some of them, which is for example, always buy and hold is the way to go or that printing money always causes inflation. These are sort of what you call investing half-truths, and I'm excited to hear your perspective on them because I like many people do take these things as sort of the way to go and the standard advice that may not always hold up as our world is evolving. So we're heading into 2023, we're going to talk about some of the investing half-truths as you like to call them. The first one is cash is dangerous. Tell us about that.

Kirk Chisholm:

There's a steam in the financial, I don't know, if just the zeitgeist, there's the whole industry talks about how when you have high inflation cash is dangerous. Why? Well, if you have high inflation, your cash should be worth a lot less next year. And then they tried out this chart, which is 100-year chart which says, "Hey, in early 1900s, cash is worth a dollar and now it's worth 3 cents in the dollar." Wow, that's really scary. Well, I don't know anybody who kept cash for 100 years. That to me seems ridiculous, right? So you have people like Ray Dalio who says cash is trash, and over long-terms, he's right. But short-terms, it's different. If you look at up to the third quarter of this year, 2022, the S&P 500 was down 25%. The Nasdaq, 33. 30-Year US Treasuries are down 30%. Safe bonds, right? Down 30%.

Real estate, 30%. Gold, 8.4. How much was your cash down? Zero. If anything it made a little money but you weren't getting much in interest. Call it zero, okay. Being generous. So we had 8.2% inflation at some point. Now at 7.7. If you look at the real returns, which is inflation adjusted, so instead of the S&P 500 being down 25%, it's down 32%. The Nasdaq instead of 33, it's down 41, Treasury is down 38, gold down 16, cash is down 8.2, which one performed the best?

Bobbi Rebell:

Cash.

Kirk Chisholm:

It's still cash, right? And here's the framework you need to take away from this. It's not that cash is good or bad during inflation. It's that inflation affects every single asset class equally. So those math nerds out there, if something affects both sides of the equation equally, you can remove it. So when we look at returns, we don't look at inflation because it doesn't matter, what is the nominal return is really what matters because if cash is the best performer, and you're down 8.2%, that's still the best performer. Just because you have inflation doesn't mean you're going to make money. It just means it's the best of the bad options.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay. So let's move on to the next investing half-truths. This one I totally buy into. You always have to be invested. Obviously later in life when you're taking money out of your savings, that's different. But for the most part, most of us when we're in the investing accumulation and growth stage, I've always been told, after you have your emergency fund, you need to be invested. The money should not be sitting in cash, to contrary of what we just talked about. Tell us about that. Why is that a half-truth?

Kirk Chisholm:

There's this theme of you always have to be invested. This has been around for decades. And the reason was if you look back in the '80s and the '90s and some of the 2000s, if you were always invested, the market would just go up. It's kind of this buy and hold kind of theme. Oh, you just be invested and it'll continue to go up. And I think what that does is it kind of dumbs down the aspect of investing that's really important, which is understanding what you're in. So if you just think the market's going up 7% or 8% a year because you're in the market, then you're going to be disappointed. So from 2000 to 2013, you basically lost money for 13 years and it was up and down. But January of 2000, till July of 2013, you would've lost 30 basis points a year during that time.

It wasn't until after July that actually you broke even. That's 13 years of lost time. So yeah, you could have been invested in the market but you wouldn't have made money from that start to point. Now, there was a ton of volatility, just like we're having now. And think of it this way. So from the peak of 2007 until the bottom of 2009, you lost about 58 and a half percent, if you were in the S&P 500, okay? That's not a small number. Now, think of you were in cash, how much did you lose? Zero. Right?

Bobbi Rebell:

Right.

Kirk Chisholm:

Now your cash just made you 100% return because you can buy twice as much of that S&P 500 shares as you could have year prior.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay. But if we told everyone to just put all of your money in cash, for the majority of people, that would not work out well, because the truth is over time it has been proven that your money does increase more if it is invested, especially if it's diversified. One of your other half-truths that I'm obviously segueing into is that diversification manages risk. We've always been told be diversified. And I know many people think that investing in an index is diversification. That's not always true. It absolutely depends on how diversified that index is, right? Tell me why you feel this is a half-truth, that diversification manages risk.

Kirk Chisholm:

Yeah, and I want to address one quick point before we get into that which you mentioned, which is where do people invest? This is really hard. I'm giving you these mental models so that you can understand how the markets work. I'm not telling you to be in cash or stocks. I think that's important because if you're doing one thing and you never change your mind, then you're going to eventually be wrong even if you're right most times. So the whole diversification strategy that you mentioned, diversification, people have always looked at this, actually diversification started as an academic study. It was never intended for Wall Street, but what Wall Street realized is, "Hey, if we have diversification and it reduces risk, then we can sell more mutual funds." That's how this started. This wasn't like an academic proven positive thing that works all the time. It was a theory that people said, "Hey, this looks good enough to sell mutual funds to people."

Diversification actually does a really good job at reducing volatility. Now volatility is this up and down, you see any given day or week, it reduces volatility because in normal times it gives you a smoother ride. Some things go up, some things go down. But overall it's going to have a smoother ride in a direction you hope you're going. Now the problem is when it doesn't work. 2008, 2017, 2020, 2022, there's a difference between risk and volatility. Volatility is this up and down movement. Risk is what we call a permanent impairment of capital, which like 2008, dropping close to 60% is a permanent impairment of capital. Oddly enough, 2020 came back. So that technically would be volatility. But the point is no one wants to lose half their stuff. If you look at 2008, withstanding gold and cash, everything went down 58 and a half percent given a few percentage either way, but 2020 was the same thing.

Virtually everything went down the same. Which means diversification's not really protecting you. Diversification is volatility management. Risk management doesn't work because the markets have changed in the last 20 years. We're now big selloffs affect everything including bonds. So that's why you have to be aware. You can't just diversify and say, "I'll be okay." Because this year, stocks, bonds, everything was down similarly. So you really weren't protected by diversifying. So you just need to be aware of that aspect so that you're not blindly doing this and just saying, "Why did I lose so much money?" It's because it's not a good risk management tool. It's a good volatility management tool.

Bobbi Rebell:

So then what is a good risk management tool?

Kirk Chisholm:

This is where it gets into being hard. I try to think of simple frameworks to give people. The way I've kind of looked at it is you have to have a framework for risk management. Now everyone's different. Some people say, "If it goes down more than 5%, I'm out." But you have to have a more active mentality or you need to find tools like we use Options as a way to manage risk, because I can define the worst case scenario and say, "Nothing will be worse than this no matter what happens in the world." So I like Options as a tool for that, but it's not for everybody. So I'm not saying this is all in one tool for everybody, but you need to find a strategy that is acceptable to you. Now one strategy might be you invest in rental property and that's what you do for a living. You're really smart when it comes to real estate investing.

I have a lot of friends, they do this professionally and they'll always invest in real estate and they know how to manage that. And you're still getting your cash flow, you're still getting your returns, but you need to know what you're investing in. If you're going to be passive, then you need to expect the fact that we could have a period like the early 2000s or the '70s where your returns are lackluster for 10 years.

Bobbi Rebell:

But not everyone can be an expert on those things. Very often we have jobs that there's a reason that all of these investment management firms exist because we have to outsource it. I want to gets back to one half-truth before we run out of time. So an investing half-truth that fascinates me that you talk about is that you have to be invested in order to get the best 10 days. You don't want to miss the best 10 days. I'm not sure if I phrased that correctly, so feel free to correct me.

Kirk Chisholm:

Yeah. So when I started this industry in '99, a whole bunch of wholesalers would go through the office and they would give you all these charts and say, "Here's a chart, you can use this to sell our mutual funds." And it was just weird. But anyway, that's the culture of the broker dealer world. So there's one I kept seeing over and over and over again, is basically if you missed the 10 best days, your performance would be cut in half. Since 1980, if you're invested all the time, your $10,000 would've grown to $700,000. If you missed the 10 best days, it would've been only $341,000. Well that's significant. I should be invested all the time, right?

Bobbi Rebell:

Yeah.

Kirk Chisholm:

I mean, that's obvious.

Bobbi Rebell:

I'm buying in. Sure.

Kirk Chisholm:

However, if you missed the 10 best days, your performance was lackluster. If you were invested all the time, it was much better. However, if you missed the 10 worst days, you would've doubled the performance than if you had just been invested the whole time. So it's what I call of Wall Street half-truth, where they tell you what you need to know to buy their mutual fund or to buy their narrative. But if you actually look at the numbers, it's not completely true, because missing the 10 best days is incentivizing you to buy something and never sell it, which is Wall Street's preference. But if you were to miss the 10 worst days, which is why we focus on risk management, if you miss the 10 worst days, then you're much better off and you don't have periods of big losses, which is if you invested all the time, like we talked about, you could be down 60% in your portfolio.

That is historically okay, that happens. It's not all the time, but it happens. So you just need to look at the full picture. So the half-truths are about showing you the difference between this little piece over here and the whole rest of the picture, which if you understood, you'd say, "Okay, I can make better decisions now because I understand the scope of what's going on."

Bobbi Rebell:

All right, so what's your best advice heading into 2023 for the average investor? Who is not able to time the market, to miss the worst 10 days and to get the best 10 days, because that's just not realistic for most of us.

Kirk Chisholm:

You should start thinking about your portfolio differently. For example, interest rates have been zero for a very long time, except for now. Now you can get three-month treasuries, which are virtually, if you can't say guaranteed about anything, that's as close as you can get to give you a guarantee of safety. So you can get 4% in change on three-month treasuries, which is great. 4% compared to losing 20%, 30% is pretty nice. So I wouldn't say go all in on bonds, but if you're going to have fixed income in your portfolio, you should look at short-term bonds, three months, maybe even six months at the most. But interest rates are going to keep going up for at least the next six months. So you shouldn't go out too far. But if you can lock in 4%, 5% on a bond for three to six months, I think you're in good shape. Savings bonds are phenomenal. You could get 9.6% I think as of October, now it's, I think 6.8. That's a pretty good yield. Now it's only $10,000 per year per person, but that's still a really good rate.

Bobbi Rebell:

A little more with your tax return if you can, if you get a tax refund.

Kirk Chisholm:

Right. So that's something anybody could do and that's like a no-brainer approach. You're getting a good yield, almost no risk. So it's a good approach. But outside of that, I would just say learn as much as you can and think about valuations. If you look back in the '70s, valuations got so cheap that it was blatantly obvious that it was a good time to buy. It didn't matter if it went up or down from there. It was just things like Warren Buffett made all his money. His best returns were in the late '70s and early '80s because it was just so cheap that things were, you could have just thrown a dart at a board and you could have made money. Right now, it is so expensive that things are more expensive now than they were prior to COVID, and then they were expensive. People were talking about how expensive it was prior to COVID and we're still above those.

So the fact that we've gone down 20% to 30% on the markets, we're not even close to where we should be. So be very careful about your investments. Don't feel like you need to be all in. Don't be afraid to be in cash. Just be more conservative with your investments than you think you should be. Because the one rule that if you take nothing away from this, you should take this away. In a bull market, the idea is to make money. In a bear market, the idea is not to make money. The winner of a bear market is the one who loses the least. Now you might think about that, you think you're crazy, but we're in a bear market. Markets have all been down this year. The one who lost the least is cash. And the cash has still lost 8% into inflation, which means it's still down, but it's lost the least.

So don't think about it as, "I need to make 7% this year." Because you could lose a lot of money. Think about it as, "How can I protect myself? What can I do to be more conservative and lose the least until things change?" And if you want to know when things are going to change, I'll give you an easy framework. Watch the Fed. If they start reducing rates, then you can get a green light to start investing. If as long as they're raising rates, you should keep your foot on the brake, not on the gas.

Bobbi Rebell:

All right, thank you so much Kirk. Where can people find out more about you and be in touch?

Yeah, I'm pretty easy to find. You can find me on Money Tree Investing podcast. It's moneytreepodcast.com is the website. Also, you can find me at innovativewealth.com. That's our website and you can pretty much find me everywhere. I'm pretty easy to find.

Bobbi Rebell:

I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never-ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I mean, I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love. But the truth is it's also really hard and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I mean, I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic and I just want something that will get them to smile. So my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the onesies with phrases like, I can't believe you are the grownup either, and new colors and designs of our top selling generosity line. And for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our generosity collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous too, well yourself. Just use code holiday, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y. And thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps small projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays guys.

So if you follow me on Instagram or on TikTok, you're going to see some of the video clips where I will look very confused and honestly kind of skeptical. I was. I try to be open-minded with what my guests are saying because there's so much that we can learn from them. And by the way, Kirk is a very smart guy. He made his arguments very well. A lot of what Kirk says makes sense. Maybe I'm just stuck in the things that I take for granted. And I like that he has me questioning them. On the other hand, when he talks about the market going down for years and how it would absolutely be better to have been in cash for those years, of course, so we can buy more at a lower price, of course, sure, but I'm just not smart enough or good enough or whatever, and maybe I don't pay the right people who are smart enough, but I can't identify those years.

And so I'm kind of lost, because someone like me, and many of you I suspect, kind of have to default to being in the market in the bad years so that we can be in the market when the good years come along. That said, I love a good discussion and I totally appreciate Kirk's viewpoints. Hopefully my conversation with Kirk got all of you at least questioning the things that we take for granted, which is something we should always be doing.

If you are not already, please go to my website, which is just my name, bobbirebell.com, or go to the show notes and sign up for my newsletter where I share more useful information for financial grownups and of course DM me. Let me know what you thought about this, and every episode. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and Bobbi Rebell pretty much everywhere else. And of course, also, if you can, please as a little holiday gift to me, consider writing a review of the Money Tips for Financial Grownups podcast on Apple Podcast. Or if you listen on any other platform that has space for reviews, means a lot to me. And by the way, definitely send me a screen grab of it if you do so. So I can thank you. I also want to thank Kirk Chisholm for helping us all be financial grownups.

Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

You can also leave a review on Apple Podcast. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

As investors’ appetite for risk continues to be tested by the stock market and crypto currency, we shine the spotlight on old school Certificates of Deposit. Beth Pinsker shares how to buy them, which ones to buy and why CD's are having a moment for the first time in decades. 

Money Tips

1. Think about your whole financial picture

2. Your timeframe matters most

3. Money you need in the short-term is best kept low-risk investments.

4. Ask for help when you need it

---

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• LinkedIn - @bpinsker

• Website - https://www.marketwatch.com/author/beth-pinsker

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:

Hey, grown up friends. There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing. Even though it can be a bit embarrassing, I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do, if you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity. For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done, only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating. A little while ago I decided I was going to stop just hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it.

I downloaded something called CleanMyMac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up. And CleanMyMac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears. I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my Financial Grownup listeners who want to also get CleanMyMac. To get that 10% of CleanMyMac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac, B-O-B-B-I R-E-B-E-L-L dot C-O-M forward slash CleanMyMac, and that is all one word. I promise you, you'll be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me. So worth it.

Beth Pinsker:

It is definitely a shopping opportunity. You definitely want to treat it like you would a high yield savings account and just go out there and seek the best rate.

Bobbi Rebell:

You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together we got this.

Are you wearing any retro fashion? Maybe you're reaching to the back of your closet, pulling out something that you forgot was even an option but now looks interesting enough to try on. That's what's happening with CDs, which is short for certificates of deposit. I personally have absolutely ignored them for as long as I can remember and my only real awareness in my daily life of CDs came from those signs that you see when you walk by physical bank branches and they would advertise rates that were frankly not all that appealing. Well, the laughing has stopped because the rates have gone up right along with inflation, but in a good way. And unlike I bonds that we discussed a few weeks ago, there is not one rate for all and not one term for all. There are a lot of choices for all of us to make if this is something that we may be interested in adding to our investment portfolios.

So I have enlisted the help of my former work colleague, Beth Pinsker, to give us the low down. Now, Beth and I worked together at Reuters where she wrote a personal finance column and she was also the editor of many of my columns. Like me, she also became a certified financial planner. Beth is now at MarketWatch where she writes about investing. I saw her recently and being the nerds that we are, the conversation naturally turned to how exciting CDs were as one does. Beth translates all when it comes to CDs. You guys are in for a treat. Here is Beth Pinsker.

Beth Pinsker, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Beth Pinsker:

Hello.

Bobbi Rebell:

I'm happy to have you here. We ran into each other recently and reconnected. We are former colleagues and you have continued to soar in the world of journalism. You are now the investing columnist at MarketWatch. Tell us a little bit about that job and your expertise, because you're also a CFP. We both took the CFP exam and we both mutually cheered each other on and thank goodness we passed because that exam is one we don't want to take again.

Beth Pinsker:

No, never. I'm done with tests I think. So I'm looking in my column and investing holistically as an element of financial planning. So it looks at everything that you need to do from what kind of accounts you have open to what you put in them to how you take it out of them, that whole life cycle of your money.

Bobbi Rebell:

I love that because we previously used to just think, okay, investing means throw money into the stock market, pick an ETF and you're done, set it and forget it. But it's becoming a little more complicated now because the market's had such an extreme pullback. We're talking in the fall of 2022 and people are starting to think about things like I bonds, which we covered in a recent podcast episode, and things that we used to roll our eyes at and dismiss as being not all that, things like CDs, and that's what I asked you to come on and talk about. Tell us, first of all, just explain to people because this may be a foreign concept to some people listening to the podcast because it has not been something even really for many people worth looking at. What's a CD? How do they work? What do we need to know? The basics.

Beth Pinsker:

Yeah. Advisors tell me that anybody under 50 has no idea what a CD is and has never touched one and doesn't have any idea what they are. A CD is a certificate of deposit, it's a banking product. So it's fully insured under the FDIC and you are basically buying a certificate that is loaning money to the bank and they pay you interest for that and that interest is higher as an incentive than a regular bank account. You lock in for a certain period of time, three months, six months, nine months, 12 months, five years. You can even get CDs that are longer than that and the longer the length, the higher the rate usually.

What happens with that kind of structure is that a lot of people will put longer term money in there in order to get the higher interest rate or they will create what are called ladders where they have different maturities that come due and then they create a rung structure. So you have a three month, a six month, and nine month, and when the three month comes due, you roll it into a six month and when the six month comes due, you roll it into another six months or a three month. There are different scenarios for what you need to get out of your money, but basically it's a loan that you are giving to the bank and so they give you money in return.

Bobbi Rebell:

Is this something that people would buy in a normal brokerage account like if they use certain apps or if they use certain discount trading platforms? Is it as simple as picking it out just like you would a stock or a mutual fund or an ETF?

Beth Pinsker:

It's actually easier, which is why I think that when you talk about I bonds, which you have to go to a separate account to buy, and treasuries, which you have to go to either treasurydirect.gov or you can get them through your brokerage account. There are all sorts of maturities and different distribution dates and all sorts of numbers after the title of the treasury bond, they're hard for the regular person. A CD is like a click in your bank account and you have a CD. It's like the regular person's version one step beyond a high yield savings account. I think that the hierarchy is you have your checking account, you have your savings account. If you're really interested in making more money, you have a high yield savings account, which might be at a separate bank like an online savings bank.

If you want more money than that, then you go to a CD and then if you're willing to go beyond those steps, then you think about I bonds in a separate account or treasuries in a separate account. There is something called a brokered CD, which would be available through your brokerage account and those are typically at a higher rate than even the CDs that are offered directly by a bank. Basically, they're like bulk rate brokerage discounts so that Fidelity or Vanguard or whatever your brokerage account is, they would make a deal with the bank that's offering the CD and you would get a slightly better rate to buy it through as the brokerage account as an incentive to do it there and then it would live in your brokerage account.

Bobbi Rebell:

So let me ask you this, for example, you compared it to treasuries. With the treasury, which is borrowing from the government, the rate is set. So with I bonds, every six months it's resetting. We know it's been 9.62, we know it's going to reset to a lower number, but it is what it is. With CDs, different banks could offer different rates. I mean we walk by, if you walk by a bank, you see them often advertising the CD rates. So is this something where you may bank at one place but you may want to shop around and buy a CD at a different place? And if so, how do you shop around?

Beth Pinsker:

So you can find the latest rates if you Google and search around a little bit, it is definitely a shopping opportunity. You definitely want to treat it like you would a high yield savings account and just go out there and seek the best rate. You may get preferential rates from a bank you already have a relationship with, so that's one place to start, but then you can start looking around. And because they're all FDIC insured, you don't have to worry about the safety of a brand name that you might not have heard about or a bank that's only online or a bank that's really far from your home that you can't go visit in person. As long as it says FDIC insured on there, you should be pretty good. And because it's a competitive environment, you might find a really good rate somewhere that's seeking out new customers and you can get a good deal.

Bobbi Rebell:

You sent me four tips for our financial grownups, so I just want to go through them as well. The first tip when buying CDs is to think about your whole financial picture.

Beth Pinsker:

Yes. So you don't want to put money in a CD that you're going to need right away. If you have an emergency fund, people are starting to think about their emergency fund in tiers. You need the money that you need right away to have access to say for instance, a check doesn't come in that when you're expecting it or you blow a tire and you need a little bit of extra cash, you need money you can touch today and you want that in a savings account. You want that earning interest but somewhere where you can get at it, but you might have a lot saved in your emergency fund as you should like six months worth and you wouldn't need that money for six months.

So you can look a little bit further out for the kind of opportunities to earn more on it. And so you can get a six month CD but you lock it up for those six months. There are some CDs you can get where you can get no surrender charges, where they're going to charge you if you turn it in early, but those are going to cost you a little bit on the rate. So they'll take a little bit off for that convenience fee. So that's why you have to look at how much do I need right now? How much do I need in a little while? How much do I need in a longer term timeframe? And for that longer term money, you have other options right now. CDs are one of them.

Bobbi Rebell:

Your second tip for financial grownups is exactly what you just said. Your timeframe matters most. So follow up on that, you've talked about the timeframe, but what are the other options? You said there's other options with different timeframes. What else should people be considering?

Beth Pinsker:

When I was first a grown up, I thought you needed a certain amount of money to invest. That used to be true. There used to be minimums and trading fees and it really didn't pay to invest money because you were going to pay so much in fees in order to buy the stock or mutual fund that you wanted to buy and you needed $5,000 or $10,000 to get anybody's attention to do it for you. And now with all these trading platforms, there's no transaction fee, there's no minimums and you can get started right away. So your money is really all about what you need it for and what's the best way to store it and grow it while you're waiting to spend it. You have investing options, you have bond options, you have banking product options, you have a lot of options these days.

Bobbi Rebell:

Right. Because your third tip was money you need in the short term is best kept in low risk investments, CDs are one. And I think a key thing that has come up a few times in this interview is FDIC insured. And that's something that I think has become more of a conversation topic in the wake of so many troubles in the crypto space because that's something I don't know people were necessarily aware of that there is no FDIC insurance when it comes to crypto products and other new kinds of investments that maybe people are thinking about and talking about. It's not that simple. I mean FDIC insured, can you just explain what protection that offers?

Beth Pinsker:

Sure. FDIC is an insurance product offered by the government to banks on $250,000 worth of deposits in a single account type. So if I have $250,000 and I have it in the bank and the bank goes kaput, the government will make sure I have my $250,000. I can't lose that money. It won't necessarily protect me from losses in the stock market, for instance, like there's a separate insurance for the failure of brokerage houses, but that also only covers the amount of money you have saved there. It doesn't cover investment losses. And I think what a lot of people are learning this year too is that the stock market can indeed go down and I think a lot of people who might have gotten started investing in the last five years or so might not have really fully realized that that things do go down and that if you put a thousand dollars in the stock market and today it's 800, nobody's going to make up that difference for you. But if you put your money in a bank account and you have a thousand dollars, you're going to have a thousand dollars.

Bobbi Rebell:

Very well said. And the fourth one is probably the most important for financial grownups and that is to ask for help when you need it.

Beth Pinsker:

Yeah, a lot of people have trouble with that. A lot of people don't want to tell their exact numbers to anybody, and it's hard, even a teenager talking to their parents or a young adult talking to their parents doesn't want to talk in exact numbers. And it's hard to give advice for finances without exact numbers because the advice you give to somebody who has $10,000 to invest is a lot different than somebody who has a hundred thousand dollars to invest.

Bobbi Rebell:

I think that you've made a great point throughout this that not only is everyone's needs goals and resources different, but your timelines are different. And that really is so much of this discussion that the nice thing about CDs is you can choose different timelines with the CDs and you'll get different returns, but at least you can customize it to your needs and strategize with it.

Beth Pinsker:

Yes. Another important thing to take note of that is that the Federal Reserve's next meeting is November 2nd, and then after that, I think it's December 14th, and they might raise rates again. And so you might want to be cautious about what you lock into right this second. We're very close to November 2nd. If rates go up again with the Federal Reserve, they're tied to the rates that banks offer. And so CD rates and high yield savings account rates and treasury bill rates might all shift upwards with that. And if you're locked into a two year CD right now, you might not necessarily capture what's going to happen in a month. But then again, given all the forecast about the economy, rates might eventually come down. So we're in an in between phase where nobody knows exactly what's going to happen with rates. And so you just want to take a look at what your needs are and what the amount of money you're dealing with and the timeframe you're dealing with and see what the best course of action is for you.

Bobbi Rebell:

Very well said. Beth, tell us where people can make sure to get all of your pieces for MarketWatch and be in touch with you if they want to learn more about you.

Beth Pinsker:

Well, there's marketwatch.com and then there's bethpinsker.com, so either one.

Bobbi Rebell:

Okay, great. And your socials?

Beth Pinsker:

I'm @bethpinsker on Twitter. And I'm Beth Pinsker on LinkedIn, and my dog has an Instagram account.

Bobbi Rebell:

Oh, well what's your dog's Instagram account?

Beth Pinsker:

It's [inaudible 00:16:28].

Bobbi Rebell:

We'll follow that too. Thanks, Beth.

Beth Pinsker:

Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:

Hey, grown up friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to rate because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working, and I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you.

So first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest and it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

So many choices. I highly encourage everyone to use the free resources available to you as a listener of The Money Tips for Financial Grownups podcast, including the full transcript that we provide so you guys don't even have to take notes. Just go to my website, bobbirebell.com, and look under the podcast tab and then click on the episode and it is all there for you. So be in touch with what topics you want to hear about. Just DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1, that's the number one. Or email me at hello@financialgrownup.com. I love sharing this information with all of you for free. I know your time is precious and I appreciate your support. If you do have the time, please leave a review of this podcast wherever you listen to it and help me get the word out by taking a screenshot on your phone and sharing it on social media.

Tag me so I can thank you and let you know how much it means to me. And of course, you could just tell a friend about it too, right? Let's stay in touch. I share relevant articles and resources in my newsletter. It only comes out every other week, so I promise I won't barrage you with mail, but I really appreciate you being part of the community. You can sign up on my website, bobbirebell.com. Super easy. Biggest thanks to MarketWatch investing columnist and certified financial planner, Beth Pinsker, for helping all of us be financial grownups.

Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.

You can also leave a review on Apple Podcast. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Dorie Clark shares game-changing tips to upgrade our work and personal lives including a new alternative to the passion vs. money career debate, jet-lag productivity, heartbeat income and working more hours- in less time. 

5 Money Tips To Play And Profit At The Long Game

• Rethink Multitasking

• Use Jet lag for productivity

• Do something interesting

• Ask- but wait a year first

• Patience leads to the pay off- but don’t be passive

---

Follow Dorie!

• Instagram - @dorieclark

• Facebook - @dorieclarkauthor

• Twitter - @dorieclark

• LinkedIn - @doriec

• YouTube - @DorieClark

• Website - dorieclark.com

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season, and you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com, and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates, if you can't decide. Use code GROWNUP for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast, and you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks, guys.

Dorie Clark:
Lower the stakes a little bit, because honestly, thinking about what is my passion is the dating equivalent of meeting somebody on OkCupid And then the next day your friends just keep saying, "Well, is he your soulmate? Is he the one?" It's like, "Oh my God, I don't know. Give me some time."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together, we've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, Grownup friends. You guys are in for a treat. This week's interview is someone I have been trying to get on the podcast for quite some time. It is Dorie Clark. She is the author of the new book, The Long Game, it's her fourth book actually. If you're not familiar with her, and frankly, even if you are familiar with her, you're going to be so happy to listen to this episode. You're going to get so much out of this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Dorie is a big time public speaker, thought leader, and as I mentioned, an author and so much more. We totally hit it off. She covered some great topics for us, including what we can do if we haven't found our big passion. We all talk about follow your passion, but some of us, it's not so obvious what that passion is, but Dorie has a great solution.

Bobbi Rebell:
We also talked about super easy ways to up our productivity. Yes, you can have more than 24 hours in a day apparently. I'll tell you, some of these things were obvious once Dorie pointed them out, but they really weren't obvious to me beforehand. They're easy things that we can do once we know how to do them from Dorie. You'll see, we were doing it all wrong.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, we're going to talk about what we can learn from the amount of time it takes to learn to do a handstand. It was a great story and it made so much sense. If we're being honest, I, by the way, can not do a handstand and I'm not going to put in the time to do this handstand thing, guys, but the lesson that Dorie is going to give us totally works. This is all going to make sense. I know this was a little bit confusing, but just trust me. Listen to the interview. Here is The Long Game author, Dorie Clark.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Dorie Clark. You're a financial grownup.

Dorie Clark:
Bobbi, thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm so glad to finally have you on. I've been a fan of yours since our mutual friend, Danielle Towne, introduced us a few years ago, and at that time started reading your books, Reinventing You, Entrepreneurial You, and you have some other ones in the mix, but most recently, The Long Game: How to Be a Long-Term Thinker in a Short-Term World. You can see all of the tattered pages. Congratulations.

Dorie Clark:
Thank you. It is amazing. It looks like a dog attacked it. I'm glad you were that voracious with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I read it by the pool, so there was a little bit of suntan lotion and water and all that stuff, but it was truly loved, mainly because I know you as the super successful Dorie Clark, you're such a celebrated thought leader, but you're very vulnerable in this book.

Dorie Clark:
Thank you. Well, one of the things that has been challenging for me over the course of writing books, and this is my fourth one, and it's not necessarily a philosophical or emotional challenge, but it's actually just overcoming training. But I started my career as a journalist, specifically a political journalist, and the thing that you learn above all else is you are not the story. You are not the interesting part of the story, you write about other people. That was the frame that I was coming from. Over the course of writing my four books, I've come to learn that actually, in terms of what connects with readers, what seems to really make an impact, that's exactly wrong. I mean, what we look for in the news I think is very different than what we look for in business or career books.

Dorie Clark:
Over time, the part that people seem to respond to the most strongly was actually hearing some of my own experiences, and so over the years, I've really learned to weave more about what I've done and what I've tried and what I've gone through into the books as a compliment to the narrative and the reporting that I did. I'm really glad that you responded to that.

Bobbi Rebell:
I really did. The book is very relatable and I think a lot of people in our Grownup audience will feel the same way. You have a lot of incredible money and, frankly, life tips in the book. I want to dive right into those. I have five that I've highlighted. The first one is you talk about rethinking multitasking, because multitasking has gotten a lot of pushback in recent years, but you have a different perspective.

Dorie Clark:
Absolutely. It is completely true that perhaps what we think of when it comes to multitasking is bad. That would be the equivalent of like, "Oh, I'm actually pretending do a podcast interview with you, Bobbi, but I'm actually checking my email," and that is not true, by the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
You could pull it off.

Dorie Clark:
Well, the truth is, if you're trying to use the same parts of your brain, something is going to slip and it's just going to be suboptimal all around. But something that I realized, through some very meticulous time-tracking studies that I did over the course of several years, is that actually there are very complimentary activities that you can do. I mean, some examples might be working out and listening to a professional development book, or taking a walk and calling your mom, or whatever the case is, but it's two activities that you can do both of them equally well at the same time. It could be a cooking dinner with a friend, So you're doing a chore, but you're also visiting with someone that you want to spend time with. During my time tracking, I actually would double count those activities if I could legitimately do both of them equally well, and I came to realize that I'm actually able to build in about 28% more time into my week by doing that. I've become a huge fan of strategic multitasking.

Bobbi Rebell:
What I love about that is it's the anti-workaholic mentality, because it's giving you more downtime.

Dorie Clark:
Absolutely. It's really just being a little bit more thoughtful. I mean, sometimes we fritter away these moments. I mean, I remember back early in my career when I didn't live in New York and I had a car and I'd drive to work, sometimes I just wouldn't think about it and I'd put on top 40 radio and most of it was just listening to advertisements. I mean, that is legitimately wasted time. Whereas, with a little bit more thought, you're listening to some kind of an educational podcast, like this one, or you're listening to an audio book and you're actually using that as professional development time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number two, use jet lag for productivity.

Dorie Clark:
Yes. Speaking of things that we normally treat as wasted time, jet lag is often a top of the list. I mean, we all know, when we're jet lagged, you're not going to get anything "meaningful" done in terms of the way that we normally think of meaningful work. I mean, you can't do anything detail-oriented, you're propping your eyelids open, you're not much use, but what I came to realize is that, actually, we can begin to think about that time differently.

Dorie Clark:
Now, I would never say, "Oh, let's do your QuickBooks when you're jet lagged," that would be a bad move, but what I actually did one time, sort of inadvertently, was I was jet lagged on a trip to Russia and I ended up being able to do basically an entire year's worth of strategic planning while I was keeping myself awake at a cafe, partly because when you are jet lagged in that way, when you're half sleep deprived, your brain is able to make creative associations that are not necessarily logical and linear. I was able to be a lot more big picture about my thoughts and it enabled me to do better strategic planning than if I actually had been well slept and in a more logical frame of mind. I think it's really about matching your energy and your state of being to the tasks that are most appropriate at that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number three, this one, I love this because it's a strategy that solves the issue of should you follow your passion or should you follow what's going to make a lot of money. You say focus on doing something interesting.

Dorie Clark:
Yes. What I've seen, and I'm sure you probably have too, Bobbi, is that there is so much pressure in our culture to find your passion. What's your passion? You don't know what your passion is? People can feel kind of inadequate and browbeaten at a certain point if you're not following your passion. I know a lot of people, smart, talented, hardworking people, that maybe they've reached a point where they have been working so hard and so long, they might not even necessarily be sure what their passions are anymore. With the work and the kids, they have kind of turned that part off because it's not even something you can really dwell on.

Dorie Clark:
What I wanted to do in my book, The Long Game, was to lower the stakes a little bit, because honestly, thinking about what is my passion is the dating equivalent of meeting somebody on OkCupid And then the next day your friends just keep saying, "Well, is he your soulmate? I mean, is he the one?" It's like, "Oh my God, I don't know. Give me some time." Instead of looking for the passion, instead of looking for the soulmate, what I suggest is just do what's interesting, just explore something that seems interesting. It's a low bar, but almost all of us are at least able to tell, okay, this seems interesting to me or not. Then if it stays interesting, keep moving in that direction, and if it doesn't, it's your signal to pivot. I think that that is sometimes a more sane and sustainable way to begin to move in the direction of things that you care about more.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, that can evolve. We're not going to go too deeply into it because I want people to read it more fully in the book, but one thing you weave throughout the book that I loved hearing about is your passion for theater, which was not something you did as a kid. You weren't a theater kid on stage every day, but you started to develop it and now it's evolving into perhaps a business. I can't wait to see the rest of the story evolve, but it can be something that sort of weaves through your life through different things, even taking a comedy course, different things that you did.

Bobbi Rebell:
But in the interest of moving on, we're going to go to number four because otherwise we'll just go on a million tangents with you. Number four, ask, but wait a year first. Because we do push people to go, go after that mentor, get a champion, get someone who's going to be a sponsor at work, but it's a little delicate. You say a year, that seems so long.

Dorie Clark:
It's true, it's true. I like to be a little extreme in this because I think that we have a cultural problem, because certainly in the United States, but in many other countries as well, where we have internalized way too much, the mentality of, well, it doesn't hurt to ask. I would like to say, actually yes, sometimes it does hurt to ask, because if you are making an inappropriate request too early in a relationship, you will destroy that relationship. Now, where people go sometimes is they say, "Oh, well I don't want to be a wallflower. I don't want to be stupid about things." Well, the point is, it's not that you never ask, it's that you have to let a relationship evolve to the point where the ask is appropriate and contextual.

Dorie Clark:
I mean, I am sure this is probably the case for you, Bobbi, with your business and the media profile that you've cultivated. I certainly experience this as well, where I will meet somebody, maybe at an event, maybe we connect on LinkedIn or something like that, and then five minutes later they're saying, "Oh, hey, I see you're connected to so-and-so," insert super prominent person, "Can you connect us?" It's like, "Wait, I don't even know anything about you." Also, people don't really get this context, but a million people are asking the same thing. I don't want to blow up my relationship with somebody by sending them five random people a day. It's important to be thoughtful and to be judicious.

Dorie Clark:
It's not like ask them anything. If it's like, "Oh, Bobbi, I really like that sweater. Where did you get it?" Fine, ask them that, but I'm talking about wait a year before you ask somebody for something that involves political capital. When you do that, you're able to establish a genuine relationship so that they understand that you are not in it for the wrong reasons and you're not in it to use them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and using is very different from mutually beneficial friendships. There's nothing wrong with that.

Bobbi Rebell:
The fifth one, my fifth tip I want you to talk about, is patience leads to a payoff, but it's not just patience, you have to not be passive. That's a lot of P words, but yes, patience leads to the payoff, but don't be passive.

Dorie Clark:
Yes. In The Long Game, I have a concept that I write about called strategic patients. This is something that is dear to my heart, because frankly, from the time that I've been a little kid, patience has never been my strong suit. I have not been very good at it, but it is something that I have had to learn over time. I think the part that used to bother me about patience was that it did seem so passive. I mean, the way that it gets talked about oftentimes, and at least how my mom would talk about it, it was like, "Oh, we're just going to sit back, good things will happen. Just be patient, things work out." I can't help it, I'm a little more type A than that. I like to make things happen, not just have them happen.

Dorie Clark:
We understand, of course, we can't make everything happen, but it's important for us to have agency and for us to have autonomy in our lives and to control what we can control. Therefore, I have created essentially a hybrid model of strategic patience, because the truth is, yeah, it takes time, they don't happen as fast as you want, but you don't want to be a sucker about it. So that means actually developing hypotheses about, well, how long should this take and what are the signs that it's working or not working, how can I monitor them and adjust accordingly?

Dorie Clark:
The truth is, there's a lot of power. If something is going to take five years and you know it's going to take five years and you're monitoring for your progress, you're actually able to weather that a lot better. I mean, would it be better if it was fast? Yes, but you're able to weather that in a way that mostly you couldn't if you thought it was going to take six months and then it's not happening, it's not happening. That's when people give up, and they give up prematurely and it means that they are not able to accomplish their dreams.

Bobbi Rebell:
You give such wonderful and tangible examples of that in the book. My favorite is the headstand example.

Dorie Clark:
Yeah, thank you. This is one of my favorites as well. It actually comes from Jeff Bezos from one of his shareholder letters to Amazon stockholders. He tells the story about how a friend of his hired a handstand coach for yoga, which is pretty funny of a concept, but it turns out it is actually a legit hard to do a handstand. What the handstand coach told Bezos' friend is that the average person guesstimates that it'll take about two weeks of practice in order to be able to do a handstand. That is not the case. It turns out it takes about six months of daily practice to be able to do a yoga handstand.

Dorie Clark:
The lesson I think for all of us is that unless we are thoughtful and deliberate, it is easy to wildly over or underestimate what is going to be necessary for something. We really have to be aware of that. We have to check our assumptions and be thoughtful, because if you think something's going to take two weeks and it ends up taking six months, which is a factor of 12 difference, you're going to give up, you are going to get discouraged. That's true whether your goal is writing a book, whether it's being featured in a high-profile publication, whether it's building a new career. Developing that strategic patience is a really important prerequisite to being able to persevere and succeed.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many wonderful insights in your book, The Long Game. I'm looking forward to hearing back from our listeners when they read it, so everyone should check it out. It will be everywhere, so we don't need to go through where your book will be, but where are you if people want to follow up with you?

Dorie Clark:
Thank you, Bobbi, I appreciate it. Well, the best place to find me, and also about 700 free articles on my website, is DorieClark.com. For people who are interested in the concept of playing the long game and becoming a more strategic and long-term thinker, I do have a free resource, which is The Long Game Strategic Thinking Self-assessment. Folks can get it for free at dorieclark.com/thelonggame.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much and continued success.

Dorie Clark:
Thanks, Bobbi, great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, did any of you think that it took that long to learn how to do a handstand? Would you hire a coach to teach you that? Yeah, me too. Dorie is so great. I actually went to her website after the interview to get some of her extra materials, very much worth making the effort, everyone, highly recommend.

Bobbi Rebell:
So many highlights from the interview, but the big takeaway for me was really that last part about strategic patience. Sometimes things just take time and if you don't have the right mindset, or in some cases, we don't have the resources to go the distance, we need to get honest about where we are spending our time and the best way to be spending our time. I have definitely been hit up by people very aggressively to make an introduction to other people way too early, so that whole thing really resonated with me. I mean, a year, it sounds like a long time, but time goes pretty quickly and you can't force a relationship. There's so much more in Dorie's latest book, The Long Game. She wasn't kidding, I really did read it intensely and I do plan to reference the book a lot. There's a lot of good stuff there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Everyone, please be in touch. Let me know what resonated with you on this interview and let me know what more you want to hear on the podcast. DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1. Of course, if you want to hear more from me, I would love for you to join my newsletter. Just go to my website, BobbiRebell.com, and sign up there. Big thanks to The Long Game author, Dorie Clark, for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley [Wall 00:19:59]. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merchant shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your Grownup friends and treating yourself as well. Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

I Bonds currently pay 9.62 percent but that is ending very soon. Certified Financial Planner Jeremy Keil joins us to explain what I Bonds are, why the interest rate is expiring and how to decide whether they are right for you. 

---

Follow Jeremy!

• Facebook - @KeilFinancialPartners

• LinkedIn - @jeremykeilfp

• Website - https://keilfp.com/

• Retirement Revealed Podcast

Links in the episode!

• Ibond Form - Form 8888

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• TikTok - @bobbirebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by helping Your Almost Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working, and I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest. And it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Jeremy Keil:
9.62. A great interest rate. You cannot find that anywhere. You can't find that in 12-month CDs. You can't find that in savings accounts. And, of course, there's a few different quirks, again, with the I bonds we'll get into. But the reason why rates are so high is because it's just based on inflation. And inflation, unfortunately, has been high, but thankfully you can get some good value out of what's going on.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about savings bonds. Savings bonds used to sound really boring. In fact, they were really boring. The returns were kind of blah, especially compared to other opportunities that were out there. But things are changing. Between the bear market and the rise of inflation, something pretty interesting is happening with what are called I bonds. I as in inflation. Let me say though from the get go that this episode is, as is always the case frankly, for information and hopefully entertainment only. I'm not advising anyone to make any specific investments.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's going to depend on your personal situation and your goals, but you should at least know about different investments, in this case, I bonds, in order to make that decision. So my guest this week is Jeremy Keil. He is a Wisconsin-based financial planner and also the host of the Retirement Revealed Podcast. In our interview, Jeremy and I discuss what I bonds are, how they work, how you can actually buy I bonds. It's not where you think or where you usually get most of your investments. We also talk about how much you can buy. There are limitations and then there's little loopholes. And, most of all, why they are currently paying so much more than other investments. Stay tuned to the end because we also get into some quirks that you really need to know if you are considering putting some money into I bonds. And also a very important deadline. Here is Jeremy Keil.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jeremy Keil, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jeremy Keil:
Thanks for having me on, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are a Certified Financial Planner. You have your own practice out in Wisconsin and you are also the host of the podcast Retirement Revealed. I asked you to come on because you focused, recently especially, on something that I am incredibly curious about and I think our listeners really need to know about, and that is something called I bonds. So it's a letter I and then the word bonds. Explain what exactly are I bonds and why do we care, especially at this moment in time?

Jeremy Keil:
You got it. Well, you right might remember back in the day growing up, your grandparents probably gave you paper savings bonds for a gift. Christmas, birthdays, things like that. I bonds are savings bonds. They're U.S. government bonds. They're no longer on paper. And the I part means it's tied to inflation. And so no one really cared or knew about these until about the middle of 2021 when all of a sudden the rates started getting pretty good.

Jeremy Keil:
Middle of 2021, they were 3.5% and your average bank account was 0.01. And so that was a pretty good deal. Then they went to 7% and now, through the end of October, they're at 9.62%. So if you buy an I bond on October 30 or before that, then the rate will be 9.62%. And I threw in a little funky date there, October 30, because when you buy an I bond, you can only do it through treasurydirect.gov. You got to go direct to the U.S. government. They make it effective the next day. And so if you're on Halloween listening to this, have some fun, but don't bother buying an I bond because October 30 is the last day for the 9.62%.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, we want to talk about why these rates are so much higher than other investment options, the risk involved in them, and then also what's going on on October 30. Let's start with, first of all, why are the rates so much higher? What's going on? Is there some kind of disconnect? Because, as we record this, which is October 6 of 2022, we're recording this, the stock market has been kind of a disaster the last few months. People have been losing quite a bit of money depending on where you're invested. And these seem very safe and kind of a no-brainer. How do they work? Why is the interest rate so much higher and why has it jumped so much recently?

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah, so I'll call it a quirk, not a disconnect. One reason why the stock market's down is because usually the stock market drops when there's a sudden quick inflation. And that's what happened. All of a sudden, inflation just kicked up. It was somewhat a surprise to most everybody. And yet the I bonds, I stands for inflation, they are tied directly to the inflation rate. And so when you see inflation high, that initially usually historically kicks down the stock market, but it's also tied a hundred percent. It kicks up the rates in these I bonds. And so it's also interesting too because usually in the newspapers and the news media, you'll see the 12-month inflation rate. And most of the time in the last year you've seen inflation's at around 8%, which is a pretty high rate. But the way I bonds are figured out is they take the last six months of inflation and they double it.

Jeremy Keil:
You normally see a 12-month rate, but they've looked at the last six months and doubled it. And so back in April of 2022, they had the March numbers and it came out that inflation was 8, 8.5%, whatever it was. But it was kind of a ramping up. The last six months of that 12-months number was really high and that happened to have been the number they use for inflation bonds, the I bonds on there. So 9.62% is the rate for anyone that bought in May of 2022 all the way through the end of October 2022. And that's interesting. 9.62, a great interest rate. You cannot find that anywhere. You can't find that in 12-month CDs, you can't find that in saving accounts. And, of course, there's a few different quirks again with the I bonds we'll get into. But the reason why rates are so high is because it's just based on inflation. And inflation, unfortunately, has been high, but thankfully you can get some good value out of what's going on by looking into I bonds.

Bobbi Rebell:
So when you're buying an I bond, what kind of account should you put it in? Is it a taxable asset where you should maybe put it in something that's a retirement fund or is it something where you're going to pay tax on? Where is the best place to put these I bonds if you buy them?

Jeremy Keil:
You got it. So you used a term taxable. I like to use the term non-IRA. It's just not special. It's just like your bank money. You cannot buy an I Bond inside of a Roth IRA. You cannot buy the I bond inside of your traditional 401k, anything like that. It's basically a replacement for your bank money. If you thought, "I don't need this bank money for the next 12 months or so", then you can put that money into an I bond and think of that 12-month number or 12-month time because you absolutely cannot, no way, get your money out of I bonds for the first 12 months. That's a rule. No matter how hard you try, you're not getting the money out. So the only money you should put into I bonds is money that you expect to not use for at least 12 months because you can't get it out.

Jeremy Keil:
And if you take it out in the first five years, you lose the prior three months interest as a penalty, which sounds big, sounds bad, but when you run the numbers, even after losing that last three months of interest, it still comes out to a pretty good rate. And then that gives us kind of a first tip with I bonds is looking at more a 15-month purchase at the minimum. Because if you really like the interest for the first year and you don't like the interest a year later, well, you want to wait about three months, then cash out your I bond because then you're cashing out and losing the bad interest and holding on to the good interest that you got the first 12 months.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you can't buy unlimited amounts of this. There are some caps to how much you can actually buy and then there's sort of a loophole with respect to taxes, to your tax refund.

Jeremy Keil:
A bit of that. So the maximum purchase is $10,000 per person per year. So a lot of people say, "Oh, that's not terribly too much." Most Americans don't have $10,000 in the bank. And so most Americans can benefit by purchasing I bonds and not actually running up against that $10,000 limit. Folks that have more than that and want to buy more than that, well, you might be married. That's 10,000 for you, that's 10,000 for your spouse. You might want to put some in the name of your kids. You might have a revocable living trust because you've done some estate planning and your trust can buy the $10,000 worth of I bonds.

Jeremy Keil:
And you might have an LLC. Perhaps you have a business and that business can buy the $10,000 worth of I bonds. So there's a lot of, I wouldn't say ways around it, but just knowing the rules that it's per person, per entity, I'd say most couples might be able to get 20,000, maybe even 30,000. Perhaps they could get more depending on what their kid situation is or their business situation is. And, hey, if you max out in one year, wait until January. It's per calendar year. You can get another. It just resets. You get another $10,000 per person or entity once you hit January.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now you talked about October 30 and that's because it's the end of the month and you need 24 hours. You need to buy it one day before the end of the month. What exactly is going to happen in November? I mean, how do we know it's not going to go up and get even better because it feels like inflation is still pretty bad right now.

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah, you get it. Inflation is bad on a 12-month basis. That's what you normally see. But the I bond rate is based on the prior six months. So the November rate will be based on what happened between March and September. And so far we're about a week away from that number release. So October 13, if you're listening October 13 or later, I'll have that posted right on our podcast website, which is retirement-revealed.com. We're doing the math every month on what the projection will be.

Jeremy Keil:
And, finally, October 13, we'll have the full six months that's on there. So we'll know for sure. But right now it's trending the last two months of inflation have actually gone down. And so you see the numbers that say inflation's 8% above. It's actually reporting 10 months of really bad inflation and the last two months, inflation has actually gone down. We'll see if it happens again for a third month straight. It's just kind of a quirk of how people report inflation with 12-month numbers. I bonds are based on six month numbers and if you really dig into it month by month, which I like to do, you'll notice that the last two months, inflation's actually gone down

Bobbi Rebell:
When you're actually going to buy an I bond, whether it's for money or also you can do it right with a tax refund money as well, right? That's an extra thing?

Jeremy Keil:
Yes. So that's an extra thing. So you could get, on top of the 10,000 per year of online I bonds, you could have your tax refund refunded to you, not direct to your bank, but through I bonds. Those are actually paper. You'll get them in the mail. And so some people are sending in a $5,000 extra payment. It's called a quarterly estimated payment. They're sending in that extra payment early in December or so because they want to file and get an extra refund coming back and they're choosing those paper savings bonds, those I bonds. That's a way to get more I bonds.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you could file your taxes. Let's say you got an extension on your taxes and you're filing them in October. You could send in an overpayment and ask for it to come back in the form of an I bond. And that's a way to actually put more money into I bonds if you wanted.

Jeremy Keil:
That's absolutely it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, great. So that happens automatically. That's something you do on the tax form. You can obviously speak to your tax preparer about that or I'm sure there's ways to figure it out through the IRS that it's on the forms, right?

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah. That's a form. We'll see if I get you the exact form before we're done talking, but it's a form, I believe. I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll figure it out and we're going to put it in the show notes for you, the form that you need, which is going to be on my website, which is just my name, bobbirebell.com, but I'm sure you can also find it on Jeremy's website. So if you're not buying it through a tax refund, do you have to have it through a brokerage account or a savings account or whatever or can you literally just go to treasurydirect.gov and buy it that way? Or do you need it to be in an account?

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah, that's the only way to buy it is treasurydirect.gov. Yeah, you can not buy I bonds through a brokerage account or a bank. Some people are used to buying them through a bank or a payroll deduction. Those are all old school ways to do it. Treasurydirect.gov. Or, and I found it here, it's form 8888. Easy to remember.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jeremy Keil:
Form 8888, so tell your tax prepare if you want to get those I bonds, "Here's how I want my refund to come out to me" and you can put right in there up to $5,000 of your refund can come out as a I bond.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh wow. Okay. So the limit though for the refund is $5,000. So that kind brings you up to 15,000 per person. Well, I guess it's 5,000 per tax return, right?

Jeremy Keil:
That's exactly it. So a married couple, 10,000 each plus 5,000 for the tax return gets you 25,000 for the year as your maximum.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. What else do we need to know before we wrap up?

Jeremy Keil:
When you're thinking of short term money, you deserve more interest. And your bank is out there getting more interest through things like treasury bills or they're loaning out your money to make a better interest rate. I'd encourage you to go get the best interest you can find and it's definitely not your local bank. It's going to be a place like a high yield savings account. It's going to be a place like treasury bills, six month treasury bills especially, are a higher rate right now. But these I bonds have been kind of hot since middle of 2021. They look like they'll continue that way at least through the end of October of a purchase you can get for 12 months and get more interest than you can get anywhere else for 12 months guaranteed. So just look into those things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much. Tell us where people can find more about you and your podcast.

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah, we've got the Retirement Revealed podcast, so just look up Retirement Revealed wherever you listen to podcasts. And then if you'd like to learn more about what we do on the retirement planning front, just go to fivestepretirementplan.com and you'll see some videos about here's how we take people through the retirement planning process.

Bobbi Rebell:
And those are great videos. Thank you so much, Jeremy.

Jeremy Keil:
Yeah, thanks, Bobbi. It's been fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing even though it can be a bit embarrassing. I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason. Because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do, if you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity.

Bobbi Rebell:
For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating. A little while ago, I decided I was going to stop just kind of hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it. I downloaded something called Clean My Mac. It's from a company called MacPaw.

Bobbi Rebell:
I was skeptical, but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up and Clean My Mac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye bye. That was one of my biggest fears. I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my Financial Grownup listeners who want to also get Clean My Mac. To get that 10% off Clean My Mac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac. B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L.C-O-M/Cleanmymac. And that is all one word. I promise you you'll be so happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want you guys to be in touch with me, let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me. So worth it. As you could probably tell, this is not an investment that I have made in the past because the fact is saving bonds have just not been competitive with the stock market. And while I do want to repeat that this is not an endorsement of I bonds, because everyone's financial situation is different, it's important to at least know what's going on so you can make those decisions.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, how are you guys feeling about your investments and are there new kinds of investments or investments that haven't been front and center in recent years, like I bonds, that you want to know more about? DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 or on Twitter at BobbiRebell and please go to my website, bobbirebell.com, and sign up for my free newsletter where you will get more useful investment tips and ideas.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also get the show notes with links to the things that we talk about on this podcast, like that IRS form, which is important. I think that was really interesting. And you can also get full transcripts of every podcast that we do for free. Just go to the podcast dropdown menu right on the top of the page. I also want to thank those of you who have left reviews for the podcast and ask that if you have not to please consider taking a couple minutes to leave one.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know everyone's so busy, but the support is really appreciated and means a lot to me. If it's easier, take a screenshot while you're listening and just post it on social media and tag me so that I can share it as well. And also thank you because it means a lot. It's really important to me to grow the community and get the word out and help more people. So thank you. I also want to thank Retirement Revealed podcast host and financial advisor Jeremy Keil for helping all of us be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts.

Bobbi Rebell:
Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Bobbi welcomes back Robert Farrington to talk about his Cult of Money blog for the crypto curios. We discuss everything from how to invest in crypto, to understanding Web 3.0, NFT’s and how to avoid scams.

Money Tips

• How does it work

• How do we start? Is this through a brokerage or are there special accounts?

• What do we do with it? Is it just for trading?

• Is there a lot of fraud? How do we know it’s legit?

• Is this a long term investment? What’s the future?

---

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your Almost Adults Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to rate because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working, and I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Robert Farrington:
Now instead of the big game companies extracting 99.9% of the value of all their customers, the game company might only be extracting 50 or 60% of the value, but they're giving the rest to their gamers. And these gamers can either buy their way to the top by buying NFTs or they can hustle their way to the top by really grinding away and playing the games and then selling what they earn and actually making money.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together we got this. Are you crypto curious? I know I am and I have so many friends that have invested in cryptocurrency and somehow for them it all makes sense. And while I can't say I'm ready to dive in, I do think we as financial grownups need to know what's up with this whole Web 3.0 world, which includes not just cryptocurrencies, but also other emerging investment options like NFTs. And yes, I say that skeptically, but what do I know?

Bobbi Rebell:
I invited my friend Robert Farrington back on. You may know him from the college investor, but he's been quietly growing a blog called Cult of Money, which is for the crypto curious. In our interview, Robert explains what this whole world of what a lot of people call Web 3.0 really is how the different investments works, who holds what, where, how do you actually invest? Can your kids invest without you knowing? How do you control your risk? And this one was a big one, how do you avoid getting scammed? And we even talk about taxes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, apparently there's a thing with getting taxed on crypto. It's a little bit complicated still but you do have to pay and well, I'll let him explain, but don't think you're not going to get caught. It's at the end of the interview. So listen to the whole thing. The answers were a big surprise to me. You will learn a lot here. Here is Robert Farrington. Robert Farrington, you are a financial grown up. Welcome back to the podcast.

Robert Farrington:
Hey. Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm excited to have scored this interview because you have a new project. I hesitate to say new because just before we started you said it was a pivot from something else you did, but you'll explain that to us. It is for the crypto curious. It is a website called Cult of Money. So congratulations on the relaunch and rebranding or I don't know, what is it, Robert? Tell us about Cult of Money.

Robert Farrington:
That's exactly what it is. So it's a rebranding because I have been crypto curious myself and I decided if I'm going to do all this research and work and dive into this, I should probably share my learnings and what I found out and help other people that have been seeing all this stuff about Bitcoin and cryptocurrency and all the other related products and services. While if you're like me and you're crypto curious, we share all that and hopefully help you digest and understand it from a personal finance perspective.

Bobbi Rebell:
The first question for my financial grown up community about crypto is how does it work? What is this thing? Because it's going up and down and we hear about it and we hear some things that are a little bit scary, but then we have a lot of fomo. So what exactly is this crypto world?

Robert Farrington:
Basically think of it as a digital currency that is backed by other people's beliefs in this currency and it's technology based. So instead of a central bank or a conglomerate banks or a country controlling, it is controlled by individuals and institutions that hold these currencies. You probably heard of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is considered the digital gold these days. It is expensive, but it is a little more stable in the cryptocurrency world, it only fluctuates five to 10% here and there, which is stable in the crypto world. Then you have Ethereum, which is more akin to a digital cash. So people really love Ethereum because you can transact and you can do a bunch of different cool things with it. So those are the two more popular ones. You go down the list and you have a bunch of different varieties.

Robert Farrington:
I think there's over 2000 today, and I think where it gets a little scary is that probably number 50 to 2000 are akin to penny stocks in the world. And they are flyers and they are things that are very risky and there's a lot of scams and Ponzi scheme type things there. But the fact is that crypto's been around for almost 20 years now and it's really getting more mainstream in the last five to seven years. And now you're seeing products and services and all these things that are interacting with it. So it's important to understand what you're dealing with here. So that's what we're talking about and hopefully that sheds a little light on it without diving into the technical nuances.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. There's a million little mini questions, but we're going to stick to the high level stuff. So basically to summarize that though, those are the big brand names and in theory, while nothing's guaranteed, those are the more reliable names if somebody wants to get involved with it. The names with more of a track record, but these are not government backed and they're not regulated as of now?

Robert Farrington:
They are not regulated, they are not government backed. There's actually a lot of questions on who even regulates these things. And then every state and every country treats these things differently as well. So it's very much the wild west of money these days. But again, at the same token, I think there's a lot of popularity around these as well because of all the concerns with what the Fed is doing and how corporate banks and investment institutions are handling things. So people are like, "What's the alternative?" And this technological currency is emerged as an alternative to it, but at the same token, it's very much the Wild Wes.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you said at the same token, do you mean at the same time, I'm just curious or is that a deliberate cause you said it twice and I was like, "Wait, what?"

Robert Farrington:
Yeah, same time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You have tokens on your mind?

Robert Farrington:
I do have tokens on my mind and we are talking about tokens and time, so man, I'm having trouble talking today as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, okay, so the governments don't really know what to do about this. It's not officially recognized. So how do we start? Can we do this through our bank account? Where do we do this and how do we know we're dealing with somebody legit?

Robert Farrington:
So there are two ways to go about investing in cryptocurrency. One is to go to an exchange. So people probably heard the name Coinbase these days or Binance. And you can go on these exchanges and they're very akin to the fidelities and the vanguards of the world where you open an account, you deposit money and you can purchase a cryptocurrency. And these exchanges will hold those cryptocurrencies for you. You can trade them, transact with them. The other way to go about it is to self custody your cryptocurrency where you don't have to interact with any government entity or company and you can do it yourself, but this is for the technologically savvy folks. And there is very high risk to this because you got to own your own stuff. It's very much like, I always like to use this reference, but I gets lost on the young kids these days of having your own share certificates.

Robert Farrington:
So Bobbi, you might remember having share certificates of a stock and you could put those in a safe deposit box and you could hold onto real shares of a company. Well, it's the very much the same thing of self-custodying crypto as you can actually own your own crypto, hold it on your computer and transact with it directly on the blockchain. But it takes a little more work, a little more technical savvy, and it's also a little more risky because the onus is all on you to keep your stuff safe and not get scammed and things like that. Whereas if you're on an exchange, the onus is more on the exchange to help those transactions go through.

Bobbi Rebell:
But I hear these things, some of these exchanges, I mean these are not FDIC insured the way that a bank is. And brokerage firms, you're not protected from if you own a stock and the value of the stock goes down, but you are protected from the brokerage firm just taking your money.

Robert Farrington:
So for example, Voyager was a publicly traded crypto exchange and it's in bankruptcy right now and it commingled its own assets with customer assets and it lost a lot of money including customer assets. So one of the things you see with the fidelities of the world is that customer assets are kept separate from the banks assets. So theoretically, even if these big and brokerage firms go under, your own assets are separate. Well, there's no regulation on these crypto companies and we saw Celsius have the same thing happen and Voyager. So again, that's why actually people like to self custody in the crypto space because you get to hold your own assets and no one can steal it.

Robert Farrington:
But whether it's a question of fraud or not fraud, in those cases, it was a question of these companies got greedy and over-leverage themselves taking out loans and use their customer assets as collateral. It's wrong. I don't know if you'd call it fraudulent, but it's wrong. But there is also fraud in the sense of people create fake coins and mean coins and there's a lot of pump and dump schemes and there's things like that that you really have to be aware of. You don't really see that with the "blue chip" cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum.

Robert Farrington:
But again, when you get to the low cap brand new cryptocurrencies that are way down on the list, you can definitely run the risk of more fraudulent activities taking place, especially from the sheer fact that the amount of dollars moving in, and again, it akin to the penny stock situation. If someone buys a thousand dollars of a thinly traded cryptocurrency, it makes that price jump up significantly and that could have been an insider transaction or a celebrity or something else, and then they fake the hype around these coins and then people buy into that hype and then they get victimized as a result. So it is very much the Wild West, but it reminds me of the Wild West again, of penny stocks or other financial instruments that have happened all throughout time. This just happens to be the current modern version of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tangent question, what do you think about all these celebrities that went on endorsing, I think of Matt Damon obviously with that Super Bowl ad. I mean, has there been any development with that? Were they really investors in it? Were they paid in crypto? What do we know about that? And are they all stopping it because there's been more controversy about that. I mean, this became a big celebrity thing.

Robert Farrington:
The FTC is cracking down because these people are bound to disclose if they're advertising or not advertising. So there's definitely been some crackdowns on it and some different things around that. A lot of these big celebrities stayed out of it in terms of what they're endorsing and they're very careful. But I see it with a lot of small time influencers, especially like social media centric influencers that did know better, and especially the younger ones. When you're a young teenager and someone says, "Hey, I'll give you $500 to tweet this," they might not know that they shouldn't do that. In part two, that's a lot of money. So it's very hard for those to navigate that. So yes, there are cracking down on it. You need to be mindful of what you shared.

Bobbi Rebell:
We know that it can be traded. Okay, moving past that, a lot of parents might have their kids coming to them saying, "I need Ethereum because I want to do X, Y, and Z on the internet." Tell us more about, first of all, what parents need to know and also the different uses of crypto that are realistic right now, the mainstream uses of crypto right now.

Robert Farrington:
Absolutely. So there's two really ways to go about this is you have the financial approach and you have the technical approach. On the financial side of this, we talked about trading but one of the biggest uses of cryptocurrency right now is payments. So sending international payments, sending payments to other people, crypto is way better at sending payments to people than a bank transfer or a Zelle or Cash App or any of these other things, especially internationally. So where you're seeing some of the biggest developments on the financial front of cryptocurrency is all in payments because it's very easy to have a verified authenticated transaction in minutes versus sending a wire transfer and paying a $50 fee and then heaven forbid it's international wire and all this crazy stuff. So cryptocurrency does that very well and that's huge and that's what you're going to see Bitcoin and Ethereum are thriving in that space.

Robert Farrington:
On the technology front, you're starting to see things like NFTs and different things like that, which are smart contracts and there's a lot of opportunities in the smart contract space to potentially build tools and actual useful things that just automatically run themselves. And we're seeing a lot of this in gaming. So for all the teenagers out there, the gaming front is huge in crypto because the ecosystem that exists right now is that you have to go buy a fortnight skin or you have to do this and it's all in the game and you're not really supposed to trade your accounts or sell your accounts. It's illegal and against the terms of services and different things. And we're seeing crypto really revolutionize that with Axie Infinity in different games where you can take things that you earn in the game and you can sell them outside of the game and then bring them back into the game.

Robert Farrington:
So they've created marketplaces based on cryptocurrency, really it's the NFTs that are layered on top that really add a lot of value. So now instead of the big game companies extracting 99.9% of the value of all their customers, the game company might only be extracting 50 or 60% of the value, but they're giving the rest to their gamers. And these gamers can either buy their way to the top by buying NFTs or they can hustle their way to the top by really grinding away and playing the games and then selling what they earn and actually making money.

Robert Farrington:
So those are the two biggest use cases today. But again, we are so early on in this that I think things are going to continue to evolve and going forward, but if you hear your kid saying, 'I need to buy Ethereum because I want to buy an NFT," it might not just be an eight picture. The eight pictures, they're like not the best use case for this. A lot of the gaming stuff, there's music, there's different things that involve royalties. And I'm actually even seeing content creators create digital communities using an NFT.

Robert Farrington:
Gary Vaynerchuk is a great example where he sold his conference as an NFT, people could then resell their passes to the conference and stuff by the blockchain. And the premises is that if he adds value, the value to his conference ticket will go up in price. And then you as a consumer can decide whether I want to go or not go. And if I don't go, I could sell that ticket and maybe make a profit, maybe not. But as the creator of this event, you get a royalty of all the secondary sales. So there's this premise here that if I add value, everybody wins. And that's the holistic good idea of NFTs and crypto.

Bobbi Rebell:
And Gary Vaynerchuk still gets a piece of it as well? Continuing on the way that NFTs are resold, there's a continuing ownership. Unlike if an artist sold a painting, the secondary market, he or she, it's out of.

Robert Farrington:
100%. So the premise, again, if you want to use the art as an example, it's another great one that if I create 100 great paintings and each one continues to add value, well I still benefit from that first one I ever painted. So I have an incentive as an artist to not just be once and done. I have an incentive to continue to add value to my followers in my community because I'll get that monetary compensation as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for parents, what do they need to know? I mean, can kids set up their own account behind our backs if we don't know about it? I mean are there restrictions? I know with opening a brokerage account, you have minor accounts and things like that. How does it work with crypto? Is there any restriction or can just anyone set it up and we can find out that our 11 year old is and hopefully a fabulous NFT entrepreneur, but maybe not?

Robert Farrington:
So if your kid is tech savvy, they could set up a non-custodial account by installing MetaMask and just going to town with this. They need to get some money into the system, which is a little harder because they have to figure out how to link that and can get the payments into it. But theoretically, if they create an NFT and get paid for it, that's their money and they can have an account for it. You'll also know that a lot of major brokerages are now starting to allow crypto.

Robert Farrington:
So if you do have a custodial account for your kid, a lot of the apps like We Bowl and Robin Hood and stuff allow you to buy cryptocurrencies. Even Fidelity is getting in on this with allowing crypto being traded on their apps and stuff as well. So it is possible even for your kids to do it if you set up those custodial accounts. I think just like anything with teaching our children about investing in money is that if they're interested in it, you should probably let them but teach them that this is high risk, high reward and you can lose it all.

Robert Farrington:
On the financial side, like a Robin Hood or a Fidelity, they don't actually own the crypto, it's in the exchange. So that side is really only going to be for trading on price, which is truly speculating at that point in time. If they're self custodying and trying to do it for other things, there's a lot of technological learnings and different things that might be more valuable but again, know your teen.

Bobbi Rebell:
So my final question is just what is the future of this in terms of investments? Are we going to be putting retirement savings in this? Are we going to be able, you have your other website, the college investor obviously, is it going to be something we could pay for college with? And what about taxes? That was five questions. This is my last question, but I have so many questions and I like the tagline, five questions. So all the questions.

Robert Farrington:
Well, okay. The future of this is still extremely high risk, high reward, I can't tell you what cryptocurrency is going to win. I think I could say, is it going to go away? No. Is the technology going to probably exist here forever? I think so. But will we continue to have these individual tokens and exchanges? I couldn't tell you. So I'm not trying to pick a winner. I think you should really think about it in terms of a currency. I think we're going to have NFTs forever. I don't think they'll be called that. We don't ever say www anymore in front of the internet. We just say the website name. It's that same technology. We're on the worldwide web recording this right now, but we never actually say www. And that's how NFTs and crypto are like the technology will exist and it'll be here, but I don't know if we're going to call it some of these same names.

Robert Farrington:
So I think you should pay attention to it. I also really like the idea of self custody and understanding your own security and securing your own assets because it's really sad seeing people getting hacked and losing their money. But on the same token, it's really important to understand how these things happen, how you can secure your own assets and just basic online financial security is so important. Using multiple passwords, never reusing passwords, understanding what a hardware wallet is and how these things work are essential to our future. I think as we are just dealing with our own banks and stuff, please have two factor authentication. Realize that getting a text message is probably not that secure if you're using that to get your two factor. Things like that are very good lessons that we can take away from the crypto space and apply it to our own financial lives.

Robert Farrington:
And then finally, you touched on taxes. Taxes are a mess. So crypto is a capital gain, capital loss type thing, but every transaction can be a capital gain or a capital loss. You have the potential for collectibles. If you're doing crypto in gaming, you have the potential to rack up thousands of taxable transactions very quickly. So it's a tax nightmare. Just realize that crypto is a tax nightmare, not necessarily in the reporting of it. The reporting of it is super easy. You put your gain, you put your loss, you fill out the form, not a big deal. It's getting all those transactions in one place because none of these companies are obligated to report it. So you don't get a nice 1,099 from all this like you do from Fidelity or Charles Schwab or whoever you're using. You are responsible for creating your own, what is it? 88, 49 tax form and submitting that with your taxes.

Robert Farrington:
And for those of you that think you can avoid taxes because it's the blockchain, it's things, well that's the whole premise of a blockchain. It's a public ledger. People don't necessarily know who's who, but at this point in time, the IRS has subpoenaed enough people and knows everybody that it's like a giant Sudoku puzzle. That they know like 80% of all the addresses and then they can piece together the remaining 20 by just putting the dots together and realize it's public. So maybe they won't come after you this year, but at some point in time they're going to run all this through a super computer and they're going to put all the pieces together and people are going to get nasty letters from the IRS. So don't think you can avoid the taxes, but it is really a challenging tax situation and I think accountants are a little frazzled by it because there's no beautiful 1,099 that summarizes all your transactions at the end of the year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Somehow I think the IRS will eventually figure that out. We know they're staffing up unfortunately. But anyway, all that information and more is available on cult of money.com. Tell us more about where we can reach you and your other business, that old collegey business thing.

Robert Farrington:
So you can find me at the College Investor or the cultofmoney.com and we have our podcast, we have video, however you like to find us or enjoy your content, we're there. So just find us the College Investor or Cult of Money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks so much.

Robert Farrington:
Hey. Thanks for having me. This is great.

Bobbi Rebell:
There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing, even though it can be a bit embarrassing. I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up and all the things that you have to do. If you don't deal with it, all that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity. For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating.

Bobbi Rebell:
A little while ago I decided I was going to stop just hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it. I downloaded something called CleanMyMac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up and CleanMyMac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears.

Bobbi Rebell:
I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my financial grownup listeners who want to also get CleanMyMac. To get that 10% off of CleanMyMac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/cleanmymac. I promise you, you'll be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me, so worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
That tax stuff was intense. Do you feel more or less ready to dive in or if you're already investing, do you have your doubts now or are you maybe a little bit more confident? I love hearing from all of you, so please be in touch on social media, whichever one makes sense for you on Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1, on Twitter @BobbiRebell and it would also mean a lot to me because I'm really trying to grow this community, if you follow me. And if you do, let me know that you are a financial grownup listener so I can be sure to follow you back.

Bobbi Rebell:
And speaking of community, I love to give to all of you, so I put together a newsletter usually twice a month with more useful information for living your best financial grownup life and I would love to share it with all of you. It's free. Just sign up on my website, bobbirebell.com and also on my website by the way, you can get the show notes and full transcripts for free for this and all past podcast episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you enjoy this podcast, please consider helping me out and supporting it. You can leave a review on Apple Podcasts or any other platform that takes reviews to help others discover the show. It means a lot to have an endorsement. You can also just take a screenshot on whatever device you're listening to right now and share it on social media. Tag me so I can thank you of course, or simply encourage your friends to listen and subscribe or follow the podcast. Make sure to check out Cult of Money for the crypto curious my friends. Biggest thanks to Robert Farrington for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast's brought to you for free but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Kelley Holland, author of You Are Worthy: Change Your Money Mindset, Build Your Wealth & Fund Your Future joins Bobbi to share strategies financial grownup strategies to boost your money mood and get back on track to your money goals

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working, and I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work, but I really loved doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Kelley Holland:
A lot of financial health has to do with small steps taken on repeat, and you can start taking those steps today. And the sooner you start, the sooner you'll feel better.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the line from our guest that we heard in the open. Just think about it. A lot of financial health has to do with small steps taken on repeat. It makes me think about that movie Groundhog Day with Bill Murray, or even better, 50 First Dates with Drew Barrymore and Adam Sandler doing the same thing over and over. Yeah, it's pretty basic, but in this case, when it comes to investing, basic will likely serve us all well. My guest is Kelley Holland. She is a longtime financial journalist with stints everywhere from The New York Times, to Business Week, to CNBC, where I got my start. She is also the founder of Own Your Destiny. She is a financial coach and is now sharing her wisdom with all of us in her new book, You Are Worthy: Change Your Money Mindset, Build Your Wealth, and Fund Your Future.

Bobbi Rebell:
In our interview, we talk about why women sometimes don't trust ourselves with money, and quite simply don't believe in ourselves. We lack the confidence. Kelley and I also talk about the jargon in the financial industry which often alienates so many of us and makes us feel intimidated. The truth is money skills are skills that have to be learned. And Kelley does an amazing job in our interview of sharing the best way to get past those obstacles that are keeping us from doing the things we know in our hearts we need to do. A lot of us, we just don't want to make mistakes. You're going to love this. I'll see you on the other side. Here is Kelley Holland. Kelley Holland, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kelley Holland:
Thank you, Bobbi. I'm delighted to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're excited to have you here to talk about among other things, your new book, You Are Worthy. And in just a few minutes, we're going to talk about three ways to stop feeling bad about money, which is something that is a theme that runs throughout the book. But before we get there, I want you to tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to write this book.

Kelley Holland:
Well, this is a bit of a long and winding road. I spent a couple of decades in business and financial journalism at various national publications, and along the way I started writing about personal finance and became really focused on women's money challenges. A lot of them are structural and we know them. The pay gap, the more time we spend out of the workforce, the fact that it's harder for us to save. So there's all that. But what I realized after a while was that there was something else that seemed to be going on. Because I had lots of company sharing information with women about you should do this and you should save this way and here's a way to think about your savings and retirement. But nothing was changing. The pay gap was stuck, the workforce participation was stuck.

Kelley Holland:
And so I realized something else had to be going on and I decided it had to do with mindset. The more I talked to women about how they felt about themselves in relation to money, the more I saw that there was a mindset that kept a lot of us from bringing our A game to deal with the real challenges that are out there. So the book distills that and what I learned from my coach training and what I've learned from my clients as a financial coach. And it's all put together in a way that's designed to both encourage you and educate you to take charge of your money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's also very relatable in that you have specific, and although you do keep people anonymous, you have very specific stories and very specific challenges that the people you interviewed. And it's a substantial number of people. I think over a hundred, you said-

Kelley Holland:
Over a hundred.

Bobbi Rebell:
... that you interviewed for this book. And the stories, I mean, if you don't relate to the first one, you're going to relate to the next one and probably the next one. And I think that's something very special about the book as we see each other in the people that you present to us in the book.

Kelley Holland:
Well, I really wanted to include that because one of the things that goes on with women and money is we feel uncomfortable talking about it and then we wind up feeling alone with our money challenges and we sort of feel like are we the only ones who feel this way? So part of what I wanted to do was not just be a talking head saying, "Do this, do that, I believe in you," but also make available the voices of other women just like my readers, who offer examples of, "Look, this person does feel the way you do and they're just as successful as you are, but they still have these hangups."

Bobbi Rebell:
So we have to change this. So you brought with us, and this is just a small snippet of the kinds of information you have in this book and the kinds of, frankly, specific, actionable things that people can do in the book. You brought with you three ways to stop feeling bad about money, the first of which is really recognizing that no one is born financially literate. Tell us more about that.

Kelley Holland:
Well, it's true. We aren't. We don't come out of the womb knowing how to manage money. And Bobbi, you're an ace at raising financial grownups so you know this, that this has to be taught. But it's kind of luck of the draw as to whether we do learn this along the way to adulthood. Not everyone can have you for their mom. And we do know that parents tend to talk to sons more than daughters about money, and they definitely tend to talk to sons more about investing and making their money grow. We also know that most states don't require financial education to graduate from high school, which I think is nuts, but they don't. So it's really up to chance as to whether you ever learn this stuff.

Kelley Holland:
And then women also get a whole lot of messages about being bad with money and being chronic overspenders and silly and irresponsible. So we start to kind of underestimate what we do know. So yes, if you feel like you don't know this material and you're beating yourself up about that, remember no one is born with this and it's just a matter of chance as to whether you get it growing up or not.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I think you bring up an interesting point because a lot of the information out there is focusing on fixing problems rather than applauding success.

Kelley Holland:
Absolutely, absolutely. And that's such an important part of moving forward with something that really takes time, like getting control over our financial lives. It's really important to be able to notice when you're succeeding and reward yourself in some fashion, even if it's just a silent pat on the back, but notice that you are doing something good for yourself and you can keep doing it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's move on to the second way to stop feeling bad about money, and that is to remember that what happened in the past is over. And by the way, side note, this applies to relationships too.

Kelley Holland:
This applies to everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
We tend to bring the past with us and project it forward into the current situation and we need to kind of break away from that.

Kelley Holland:
Absolutely. And it applies to the six cookies I ate last night. I mean, come on, there's nothing we can do, but what you can control is ahead of you. So recognize that and recognize that, as I said, a lot of financial health has to do with small steps taken on repeat, and you can start taking those steps today, and the sooner you start, the sooner you'll feel better.

Bobbi Rebell:
And now the third way that we can stop feeling bad about money, and I love this one because it is so specific, although you have some extra things you're going to add in here. Use the power tools at your disposal. I feel better about everything already just reading that.

Kelley Holland:
Well, you do have power tools. Look, let's be serious for a minute. Now money is, and we know at the end of the day, just a tool for living. That's what it is. No more, no less. We attach all kinds of emotional weight to it and we have all kinds of complicated feelings around it. That's why I wrote You Are Worthy. But it is just a tool and there are other tools that you can use to make good use of money. So one of these is automation. If you, for example, were to set up an automatic deposit from your paycheck every time so that you were putting 25 or 50 or a hundred dollars in a savings account, you would be building an emergency cushion for yourself and barely feel the pain if you just took it right off the top and you made a decision once to do that. And then just you're much more likely to let it run. So that's a power tool at your disposal.

Kelley Holland:
Another one is you don't have to do all the specific work of investing. You don't have to become an expert stock picker, if that's even a thing. You can invest using funds and you don't even have to invest in funds where you research the managers to find out who's super smart. You can use passive funds like index funds and many exchange-traded funds. I know you've had other guests on who've gone into detail about this, and I don't want to go down too far on that, but just using funds is a big time saver. Even financial writers like Michael Lewis will say that this just, when they do this, it saves them enormous amounts of time and worry. And then another one is harness-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, but let me just, I do want to caution though, what are the things that you need to look for when choosing a fund? Because even if you just look at the returns, it's a little bit more complicated in terms of what you will actually earn. I mean, some of them are a lot more expensive, for example, than others, and you have to know what you're paying for and whether you want to make that investment as well. I guess active versus passive, you've explained, but there are still fees involved.

Kelley Holland:
Absolutely, and it's a great idea to be really watchful of fees because if you think about, I mean, just the math is, over time, more or less, you're going to earn about 7% a year in the stock market if you smooth it out. So if you have a fund that charges a 1% management fee, you're giving away one seventh of what you could be earning. So just be very aware that even what might look like a small percentage for a fee can add up to a lot in terms of your returns and your performance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And then of course, time is money. Literally.

Kelley Holland:
That's your third power tool is the power of time. The sooner you can get your money invested and working for you, the more time the growth on your investment has to grow. And that's how you get that multiplier effect where you really can build wealth.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of women might be hesitant to invest. For example, right now as we record this, we are in by some measures a bear market. People are very nervous about the stock market potential or current recession, however you choose to define it. What do you say to people who say, "Okay, I get it, but I'm just going to wait till things calm down," which is almost wait to do something in your life until you have "more" time. And that never really comes. What's your advice to people that are skittish about the market right now and very afraid? And it's a valid fear of losing money if they put it into the stock market or other investments.

Kelley Holland:
It's a very valid fear and the markets are choppy right now and they're more often than not going in one direction. They have been since January. It's really unpleasant. The first thing is take the long view. Recognize that if you're investing now, you're investing in a market that has fallen more than 10%. So you're better off investing now than you would've been in January. Second, you may be super brilliant, but none of us know exactly when the market will turn around. So it's impossible to know and the only way to participate in that eventual uptrend is to be in the market.

Kelley Holland:
And then the third thing I would say is that even after all that, if you're still nervous, it's perfectly fine to tiptoe in, just like tip toeing into the ocean instead of just diving under that wave. You can, if you have a thousand dollars to invest, invest $200 today, 200 next Monday, 200 the Monday after that, and so on. It's a perfectly fine way to invest. The key is to just get started.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the biggest resistance you get from women when you were interviewing for this book? I don't want to call them excuses, but when people say, "Oh, I like your ideas, but it's just not going to happen because." What are you hearing from them and how do people overcome that?

Kelley Holland:
Well, for some of them, they just don't want to deal with it. I mean, when I interviewed these women, the offer was spend half an hour with me, talk about money. I'll anonymize your responses and I will offer you 30 minutes of free coaching. I only had two women sign up for the coaching. And I had other people spread the word about this whole thing and one of them answered back, "I'm not doing it. I would rather walk on hot colds, but I will tell my friends."

Bobbi Rebell:
Why? Why was that?

Kelley Holland:
Well, there's an version to entering this space because a lot of us feel less than capable. We don't like to do things we feel we're bad at. I mean, I'm not going to tell you the last time I picked up a tennis racket. It did not go well and I haven't done it in a long time. We don't like to engage with these things. We also can very easily feel overwhelmed. You and I both know that the world of finance is full of jargon and it feels kind of male. And even if you think about it, the language is pretty male. When you think about targeting return, beating the market, benchmarks, it's all, it's kind of male. We don't talk about, as a well-known study said, knitting a portfolio. It sounds weird, right? But that is what we do. So it's easy to feel unwelcome in this world. It's easy to feel ill-informed. And it's easy to feel like something's going to go wrong if you try it. So it's, for many women, easier to just look away.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the solution? How do you get them to the table?

Kelley Holland:
So the thing to switch, I think, is around mindset and around self-trust. Because when you have a sense of self-trust and self-worth in this space and you believe you can do this and you have clarity about why you would do it, the goals that managing your money will help you achieve, then you can go out and start building your net worth. You can get the skills, you can create the plan, and you can get to work.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, your book, You Are Worthy, is a great first step in that direction. Tell us more about where we can get the book and more importantly, where we can get in touch with you.

Kelley Holland:
Sure. So the book's available wherever books are sold. Patronize your local Indie bookstore, buy it from Amazon, everybody has it. And if you want to find me, you can get lots of resources on my website and the easiest way there is kelleyholland.com, which is, here's the tricky part, K-E-L-L-E-Yholland.com. And then you can also find me on Twitter, @KKelleyHolland, and on LinkedIn. And I spend a lot of time on both.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Kelley Holland:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing, even though it can be a bit embarrassing. I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason. Because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do, if you don't deal with it, all of that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity. For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done, only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating. A little while ago, I decided I was going to stop just kind of hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I downloaded something called CleanMyMac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical, but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up. And CleanMyMac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears.

Bobbi Rebell:
I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my Financial Grownup listeners who want to also get CleanMyMac. To get that 10% off CleanMyMac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/CleanMyMac. B-O-B-B-I R-E-B-E-L-L.C-O-M/CleanMyMac. And that is all one word. I promise you, you'll be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me. So worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that point that Kelley made at the end about not wanting to do things that we are bad at. I mean, obvious, right? That's fine when it comes to something like what Kelley said about tennis, okay, of course. But it's not really optional when it comes to things like paying attention to and making intentional decisions about our money. What stands out to you from Kelley? I would love to hear from you. You can DM me at @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and at @bobbirebell on Twitter. And please check out my TikTok channel. I'm trying so hard. I really would love your feedback because I am definitely still figuring this one out.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, for those of you that do follow me on social media, you probably have seen that I'm starting to try to get out there more to more conferences and gatherings and see people IRL. I would love to get to meet some of you in person, so please reach out if you are having an event come up, either something with a group you belong to or your corporation wherever you work, I would love to be a part of it and help out. Just go to bobbirebell.com/speaking. Like I said, I would love to be part of it and help make a great event.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, make sure you're also following Kelley Holland. Her socials are in the show notes, which are available right on my website, bobbirebell.com. Just click on the podcast tab. You also get full transcripts there. Kelley is doing some great stuff on her book tour, so try to drop in on one of her appearances IRL or virtual. And with that, I want to say a big thanks to Kelley Holland for helping all of us be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Steward. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Bobbi chats with popular author and keynote speaker Whitney Johnson about how we can disrupt the traditional ways of talking to our kids about money to meet them where they are, boost their confidence and get comfortable revealing own financial struggles.   

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Follow Whitney!

• Instagram - @johnsonwhitney

• Twitter - @johnsonwhitney

• LinkedIn - @whitneyjohnson

• Website - https://whitneyjohnson.com

• This episode - https://whitneyjohnson.com/282-bobbi-rebell-raising-our-kids-to-be-financial-grown-ups

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• TikTok - @bobbirebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Money can be one of the hardest things to talk about with your kids- because it is so emotional and because we as parents often hide our own struggles from our kids. 

I have spent the past few months since the release of my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life While Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart” talking to a long list of exceptional journalists, podcast hosts and experts. 

And one of the real stand out ones was with someone who is very familiar to many of you because I have had her on repeatedly to share her wisdom with our financial grownup community. It is Whitney Johnson and for those of you who are not yet subscribed to her Disrupt Yourself podcast you are in for a treat. Guests on the podcast have included the world’s best thinkers and do-ers: names like Adam Grant, Simon Sinek, Benee Brown and Susan Cain- and recently yours truly. 

I feel honored to be in such incredible company- and you may hear me getting a little nervous in this interview but Whitney got a lot of stuff out of me that I don’t normally discuss in public and she also adds in her exceptional take on how we can teach the next generation about money. 

I’m so excited to share my chat with Whitney Johnson on her Disrupt Yourself podcast. 

Bobbi shares her chat with Popcorn Finance podcast host Chris Browning. They focus on the best ways to transition teenagers to financial independence and more. 

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Follow Chris!

• Instagram - @popcornfinancepodcast

• Twitter - @popcornfinance

• YouTube

• Website - https://popcornfinance.com/

• Chris’ episode featuring Bobbi

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

We are in full back to school season and for parents it is a big time of transition. Our kids are ready to do things - but sometimes we aren’t ready to let them. This gets amplified when we have teenagers- those of you who aren’t there yet- just go with it and trust me. You are in for a ride. 

That’s why I loved my discussion with Chris Browning on his Popcorn Finance podcast. We talk about how transitioning from dependent teen to a financially independent grown up can be extremely tough, not only for that individual, but also for their parents 

Chris and I break down how to discuss money and plan for the future from both the parents and the children's perspective. So whether you're a parent or just have a young person you care about- you will get so much out of this episode. 

And don’t forget to follow or subscribe to the popcorn finance podcast. The format is great and Chris covers so many topics - each episode is short but I will warn you- popcorn finance is bingeworthy and you will have a hard time pressing pause. 

Enjoy my chat with Chris Browning on the Popcorn Finance podcast. 

Bobbi joins Marriage Kids and Money host Andy Hill to talk about everything from realistic money discussions with kids, letting your emerging adults make money mistakes and preventing boomerang kids. 

Bobbi Rebell and Andy Hill review the following:

• The importance of realistic money discussions with your children

• Why you need to let your children make money mistakes

• The balance of gifting wealth and teaching your children the value of hard work

• How to prevent boomerang kids

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Follow Andy!

• Instagram - http://instagram.com/andyhillmkm

• Facebook - http://facebook.com/andyhillmkm

• Twitter - http://twitter.com/andyhillmkm

• Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/andyhillmkm

• YouTube - http://youtube.com/MarriageKidsandMoney

• Website - https://marriagekidsandmoney.com/

• Andy’s podcast episode featuring Bobbi
  

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Worried about your adult child moving back home? You're not alone! Boomerang kids are a group of adult children who move back in with their parents after going out into the world. 

John, a concerned parent of a teen, wants to make sure his daughter doesn’t do this! 

Author Bobbi Rebell joins me to share how we can get adult children to launch (and stay launched).

Bobbi Rebell and I review the following:

• The importance of realistic money discussions with your children

• Why you need to let your children make money mistakes

• The balance of gifting wealth and teaching your children the value of hard work

• How to prevent boomerang kids
  

2022 is past the halfway mark. Everyone’s Talkin’ Money podcast host Shannah Game keeps us on track to make sure we don’t miss out before December 31 comes along. 

---

Follow Shannah!

• Instagram - @shannahgame

• Twitter - @ShannahGame

• LinkedIn - @shannahcompton

• Website - http://www.shannahcompton.com

• Podcast - Everyone’s Talkin Money

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends, a big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work. But I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it. And I really also appreciate all of your support.

Shannah Game:
It's a great time to kind of check in. We've got six months left. So things like if you have a flexible spending account, how are you tracking with that? If you have a health savings account, an HSA account, are you really utilizing those benefits as well? And then another thing to focus on as we get closer to open enrollment later this year is really thinking about, are there any health changes that you see coming up next year?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. Time flies, we know, but missing deadlines can cost you. It gets really expensive when it comes to our money. That is why I invited one of my favorite money experts back on the show. She's going to make sure we are all on track for the money moves that we have to be making between now and the end of the year. Shannah Game is a certified financial planner and the host of the podcast, Everyone's Talkin' Money, formerly known as Millennial Money. We're going to talk about that. This podcast, my friends, get this, 20 million downloads. Yep. And it's because she's that good. Shannah's amazing so let's get to her. Here is Shannah Game. Shannah Game, you're a financial grownup. Welcome back to the podcast.

Shannah Game:
Thanks so much. Such a pleasure to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm excited to celebrate with you because you have reached an important milestone in your podcasting journey. Your podcast, which we're going to talk about the name of it in a moment, has had more than 20 million downloads. That's incredible.

Shannah Game:
Thank you. It's a little hard to fathom myself that many people listen to me and other people babble on about money, but it's happened. Yeah. It has been incredible. It's grown primarily just organically through people sharing the show. It's a love of mine. I love talking to people. I love podcasting. So I'm just so enthusiastic that it's resonating.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're also really good at it. You definitely do not babble on in your podcast. I think you've helped so many people. The podcast for most of its many, many millions of downloads has been called The Millennial Money Podcast. And you've made a recent change. Tell us about the change and the thinking behind it.

Shannah Game:
Yeah. It was kind of like a itch that I had for many years and I just didn't know what to do about it. I started the podcast under Millennial Money after an article that I wrote went viral and I thought, okay, there's something to Millennial. And me myself, I'm kind of on that cusp between Millennial and Gen X, depending on which age group survey you're looking at. And so I thought, okay, this is really ... Millennial Money is a strong name, it was available when I started the show in 2015 and kind of took off after that. But I launched the show in 2015. Over the years, I've just thought, I want this show to be more relevant, more inclusive, and to open it up to kind of any age demographic and really be the place where people are welcomed in, they have a place that is a safe place to really learn about money and hear about all of these different topics.

Shannah Game:
And so we'd been playing around with this idea for quite some time. And last year we decided, okay, we're going to make the name change this year. It took us 4 months to find a name that wasn't taken. It's a little bit more challenging now in 2022. And so the name we came up with is Everyone's Talkin' Money. And it's just this safe place that you can come to and hear all of these different conversations around money from lots of different perspectives and lots of different topics.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I also think that it makes a lot of sense because your show has always been so inclusive. And as people can tell, just from listening to your voice, you have such a calming way about you, Shannah, that I think makes everyone just feel like everything is going to be okay when it comes to our money. Because so many of us have anxieties, and fears, and concerns about money and often a lack of confidence. And I feel like when I listen to your podcast, whatever the name, I always feel a little bit better. And I feel like things are going to be okay. So I've asked you to give us a little bit of a teaser of some of the information that everyone can get when they're listening to your podcast, which everyone, if anyone here is not already listening, should be listening to Everyone's Talkin' Money. You brought three sort of midyear tips for our listeners when it comes to money. And the first one has to do with really being intentional, which is so you. I mean, it's just so perfect for you to speak about.

Shannah Game:
Yeah, I'm a big fan of intentionality when it comes to money because you and I both know that about 90% of money success is mental. It's what's going on in your brain, your thoughts, your feelings, your money story, all of this plays into the decisions that you make with your money. But most people don't spend time thinking about that. They're only focused on the how around money. So when I talk about spending with intention, I always focus on asking why? I say at least three times before you make a purchase. Why do I want this? Why is it important? And why do I need it now?

Shannah Game:
You can really get easily focused solely on just saving money. But I think without focusing on cutting out your coffees and all of those things that you really love in your life, focus on bringing some intentionality to your spending and just taking some time to pause and check in before you make a purchase. Like, does this make sense for me to buy right now? The answer can be yes. I mean, that's the beauty of finance. It's personal. So it could be, yes, absolutely. I want to buy this thing regardless, or it could be no, wait, I want to actually move that money towards one of my money goals. So it's giving yourself more control over your money versus letting it just kind of take you by the whim.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you share a real life example from either you or somebody in your friends or family that has had that experience? What would be a real world application of that?

Shannah Game:
Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned that. We just did an episode on revenge spending.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ooh, I love that.

Shannah Game:
Which was fascinating because we all have just come out of this pandemic. And so it's easy for us to feel like we want to do all the things and go all the places and buy all the things. And so we talked about bringing this intentionality and something that I shared, which was actually sort of a revenge spend purchase if you will, is I got a puppy in March. She was a little bit expensive. We bought all the toys and she's already had to go to the vet several times. The intentionality behind that was, this is something that is very important to me. She's actually going to be a service dog for me in the future. We took that money and said, okay, this is what we want to do. So although it may have seemed a little bit of a ridiculous amount of money to spend maybe to somebody else. To us, we took the time, we understood how this was going to impact our other money goals. And we said, yeah, this is what we want to do with our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. And let me tell you as the parent of Waffles and the grandmother of Wally, who my listeners probably heard about last week from my episode with my stepdaughter, Ashley. She has the most adorable Maltese that she just recently adopted. You will never go wrong with a puppy. That is priceless. All right, let's go to money tip ... I could talk about puppies so we must move on. Number two, you want to talk to us, you have some money tips when it comes to investing, which is so topical right now because the market has just been brutal. Almost anything you may have invested in whether it is something riskier like crypto, or just a diversified portfolio, this has been a tough time recently.

Shannah Game:
Yeah. And there can be a lot of anxiety right now that comes from what's going on. I mean, many young investors, this is kind of the first glimpse they're seeing of a bear market. And I think it's important to always just kind of zoom out. Zoom out from all of the headlines, and all the kind of fear tactics that are going on right now, and really root back into your investing goals. Why are you investing? It's a great time to maybe hire a CFP or some other financial professional to figure out, okay, what am I actually invested in? Do I need to make some changes?

Shannah Game:
And although this may seem a little bit illogical, I also think it's a great time to maybe up your percentage of investing a little bit. Maybe if you've got a raise at work or if you're freelance and maybe you got a couple of extra contracts this year, it might be a good time to just say, okay, stocks are down, but let me put a little bit more money in because I know everything is cyclical and everything is going to eventually turn back. Even if we have a year or two of a bear market, we know from history that nothing lasts forever.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that perspective because the truth is if stocks are down across the board and you're not investing in a specific company that may have a specific problem. In general, if they're down across the board, this can be a great time to get in at basically buying stocks on sale. So it can be something that is also, as you said, very wisely, a good time to talk to an outside professional that can give you a third party perspective. And that can sometimes provide a lot of motivation, even though sometimes it's an expense, it is often worth it to have that outside opinion when it comes to how you're allocating your resources. Okay. The third thing, maybe the most important really, and it has to do with wellness because that is actually so very much tied to money.

Shannah Game:
Yeah. As we're recording this right now, we're in July, kind of midyear, and this is such a great time for healthcare checkups, to make sure you're using your benefits. I think we can go through the year and maybe we have a lot of benefits that are covered in our plan that maybe we haven't used. Maybe you have some eyecare benefits or dental benefits. I know I hate going to the dentist.

Bobbi Rebell:
We all do.

Shannah Game:
I have to be pulled basically, like you're missing out on this benefit, but it's a great time to kind of check in. We've got six months left. So things like if you have a flexible spending account, how are you tracking with that? If you have a health savings account, an HSA account, are you really utilizing those benefits as well? And then another thing to focus on as we get closer to open enrollment later this year is really thinking about, are there any health changes that you see coming up next year? Like, are you planning to get pregnant? Are you planning a surgery? Do you know anything that might be coming up next year to make sure that you choose a health plan, that's really going to provide you the best benefits for the next year?

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's really important because when that window does come up for your re-enrollment and choosing your benefits, it's often a very short window, sometimes just 10 days. So you want to prepare and make those decisions and make sure also that you have it on your calendar, because sometimes it might be an email that goes into spam or a piece of snail mail that you just don't notice that maybe you don't really see, or you don't act on. You want to make sure that you've set reminders in your calendar for when your company's open enrollment is because you do not want to miss that window. It can get very expensive. So those are great tips. Before I let you go, congratulations again, on Everyone's Talkin' Money. We know everyone that's listening to me probably already is listening to you, but if they're not, we know they have to be, so everyone get on board. Where can people find out more about you and follow you on all the social channels and learn more about your next ventures?

Shannah Game:
Absolutely. Yes. Thanks for having me. If you're interested in listening to the podcast, it's Everyone's Talkin'. That's T-A-L-K-I-N, Talkin' Money. You can find that on absolutely any podcast player and we're launching our new website this month. So that will be everyonestalkinmoney.com. We're going to have all sorts of fun freebies over there. And if you want to follow me on social, I'm most active on Instagram, just at Shannah Game.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much.

Shannah Game:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, I always feel so much better about money after talking with Shannah. In fact, I think I feel better about life in general. She just has this wonderful way about her. And by the way, her podcast comes out three times a week so there is plenty of information there for all of you grownups. I have one more tip that I want to add to though. When it comes to the annual enrollment, don't assume the benefits are the same as they were last year or the year before. And especially before the pandemic. So many companies have added or adjusted their benefits to support their employees who work from home. So be sure to look closely. There may be some really cool things that you don't even know about. Okay, my friends, what are your midyear money tips? I would love to hear them. So please be in touch on whatever social channel you like.

Bobbi Rebell:
On Instagram, I am @bobbirebell1. On Twitter, Bobby Rebell. And by the way, I am also trying my best over on TikTok, but I could really use your support. That is also just under my name, Bobby Rebell. I post a lot of clips of my appearances on local news, mainly because people seem to like them. They get a good response. I'm not really sure what I'm doing over there. But anyway, please follow me there, and like, and comment. You can also send me tips on how to improve the TikTok channel, of course. And let me know if you are a listener in the comments of one of my TikTok videos so that I can follow you back and I can also support your work. Thank you so much to Everyone's Talkin' Money's Shannah Game for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbyrebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media at, bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we've got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Ashley Kaufman, who bought her NYC apartment at age 24 shares how she did it, plus her best money tips for financial grownups. 

Money Tips

• Be the planner of the friend group

• Always be searching for discounts

• Have a monthly self reflection session on your spending

• Don't make yourself feel bad for spending money, but live within your means, do not spend more than you have

• Always buy pet insurance!

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Follow Name!

• Instagram - @ashleykaufman and @walnutthemaltese
  

Follow Bobbi!

• Instagram - @bobbirebell1

• Twitter- @bobbirebell

• LinkedIn- Bobbi Rebell

• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

Did you enjoy the show? We would love your support!

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

2. Share the podcast with your family, friends, and co-workers.

3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends, a big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you.

Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work. But I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Ashley Kaufman:
When it came to moving into the apartment, I made a running list of here are all the things that I'm going to need to purchase, from a spatula to a couch. It came down to me creating the Excel spreadsheet with three different retailers and a column for more specialty items and comparing the prices. Maybe the items wouldn't be exactly the same at three different stores, but it would be close enough that I could decide between each of them and compare the prices because every cent counted.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups, because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this. Hey grownups, welcome to episode 400 of this podcast. You are in for a very special treat. I have a guest that is making her podcast debut, and you're going to absolutely love her.

Bobbi Rebell:
The big question I am constantly asked about my new book, Launching Financial Grownups is, did your stepdaughter really buy her apartment at age 24? Then, how did she do it? Then, how can we do it? Well, the truth is, she focused and she made some really tough choices. It was not all perfect to say the least. Ashley also truly embraced the financial grownup lifestyle. You're going to hear more about that soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ashley wrote the epilogue to the book, Launching Financial Grownups, but until now no one has heard directly from her about all the details. Ashley not only reveals in her interview exactly how she did it and what she might do differently, she also is going to share her top money tips, including some that I am adopting myself. Yeah, you can tell I'm pretty proud of her. Here is my 25-year-old stepdaughter, Ashley Kaufman.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ashley Kaufman, you are a financial grownup and I can't believe I'm saying that after I've known you since you were eight years old. Oh my gosh. Welcome.

Ashley Kaufman:
Thank you for having me. Can't believe it's taken this long to get on the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. First of all, let me just say that you're the first of your siblings to come on the podcast, and your father has come on for our Summer Watch Series, and he does want to return. But he never came on to give actual money advice, money tips like you are, so you are special, Ashley.

Ashley Kaufman:
Thank you. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to get to your money tips, which by the way, a lot of people know you because you wrote the epilogue to Launching Financial Grownups. It's been a big hit. Everyone says that is the best part of the book. I get a lot of people asking me something that we talk about in the book, which is the fact that you bought an apartment at age 24. I want to give you a chance to talk about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you do it in short, but also how has it been? Because the book was written really a year ago, more than a year ago at this point and a lot has happened.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yeah. I was able to do it in short, by saving a lot, living at home after college and saving every dollar that I made. Immediately after graduating from college, I picked up a summer job, even though I had a job starting in August where I work now. I picked up that job with the intention of continuing to save and aggressively saving so that I could buy an apartment and move out.

Ashley Kaufman:
Not that I didn't enjoy living at home and eating with Harry every night, but when you're 22 and moving home after college, you really want to move out and live your own life like all of your friends are. So it was definitely hard in that regard just because I saw my friends living their own lives, renting apartments all over the city and furnishing them and making it their own space. I felt a little claustrophobic, just kind of like, I don't have my own space. I'm living at home.

Ashley Kaufman:
But in the end it's been worth it. I absolutely adore where I live now. It took a little bit of adjustment after moving in also to just make it feel like home, and it's taken the majority of the year to get there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before I get to asking you about how it is living in your own apartment, tell me about the choices that you had to make, because it sounds simple, "Well, I just saved a lot of money by living with my parents." But it's not really that simple. You did have to make some choices and you did miss out on some things or make adjustments to your plans many times.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yeah. I think COVID helped a lot and not being able to go out with friends. I did also miss out on some things my friends were doing, like going to music festivals, which in retrospect seems like it was a massive waste of money anyway, but seeing all my friends there and having a good time, it definitely felt like I was missing out on something.

Ashley Kaufman:
There were also times where my friends would be going out to brunch every week and I just wouldn't go along with them because every dollar ended up counting. I was really tight when I did put the down payment down on my apartment and then had to go buy furniture, so every dollar ended up adding up to allowing me to live where I am now.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing that stuck with a lot of people in the epilogue in Launching Financial Grownups is you said something like, "I love Excel. I'm an Excel kind of girl." How did you use systems to help you save the money, track money, and then help you when you were moving into this apartment and setting up your own home?

Ashley Kaufman:
Yeah. I do love Excel. I took a course on Excel in college, and since then, just everything has been in Excel. I have my monthly budgeting in there, which I have since college. I have a list of my running expenses that are the same every month, as well as a list of things I would like to do that month. If it doesn't add up to have me saving what I would like to be saving every month, I will make cutbacks and adjust, but Excel really runs my life.

Ashley Kaufman:
I mean, I have tabs for vacations I want to go on, I have tabs for, here's an expense that comes up once a year, like renewing my pass to the zoo, which I really enjoy, but I have to budget for that. It helps me keep track of that. When it came to moving into the apartment, I made a running list of here are all the things that I'm going to need to purchase, from a spatula to a couch. It came down to me creating the Excel spreadsheet with three different retailers and a column for more specialty items and comparing the prices.

Ashley Kaufman:
Maybe the items wouldn't be exactly the same at three different stores, but it would be close enough that I could decide between each of them and compare the prices because every cent counted.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, what advice would you give to other people that have short-term, but big goals? Not necessarily buying an apartment, because not everybody wants to do that. It's not the right choice for everybody. People might want to move around, have other priorities, but if they have a short-term goal, what's the best way to get there?

Ashley Kaufman:
To really take a step back and look at what you're spending and do I really need be doing this? I mentioned earlier that I have a zoo membership. Maybe every year, I don't need to renew that if I don't see myself going, and I have a financial goal that I need to hit, or let's say something like I've been looking into buying a new couch. There's small steps that you can take to get to where you need to go by just taking that step back and reviewing all of those choices.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just being accountable and doing a self-audit of where you are right now and what matters most to you for that season of your life.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. That goes into our money tips that you brought with you that are new money tips, but I think makes so much sense for everybody, not just young people, but it's very relatable, certainly in the young adult phase of life that you're in and you're 25 years old right now. I can't believe it.

Ashley Kaufman:
I know.

Bobbi Rebell:
The first of five money tips that we're going to get into has to do with, I would call it the FOMO thing, like your peer group and what's going on there. What's your money tip there?

Ashley Kaufman:
My money tip for friend groups is to always be the planner in the friend group, by being the planner, you can be cognizant of other people's requirements while also staying within your own budget. If people want to go out at night to say a club or something, you don't have to go to the fanciest nightclub to go have a good time with your friends. Some people might want to in your friend group, but other people might not be able to afford it.

Ashley Kaufman:
You can really make sure that you are courteous towards others while also staying within your own budget and maybe the budgets of your friends, if you're aware of their needs and requirements financially as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that because we tend to think just reflect on ourselves like, "Wow, this is a stretch for me financially." But we also may not realize that it may be a stretch for everybody, but nobody really wants to say anything. It's actually a really considerate thing of your friend group to bring up the cost and to be the planner and control those things. Your second money tip is something your dad has gotten so good at and I'm so proud of him, and it has to do with making a little extra effort when you're buying stuff.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yes. My second tip would be to always search for discounts, which goes back into being a planner. If you want something, wait for it to go on sale, wait to find a discount of some sort. If it's travel, be planning over a year in advance and make sure that you are tracking any sort of discount. Marriott hotels I know specifically you can cancel up to 24 hours in advance or up to 48 hours in some cases so it doesn't hurt to book something while you're searching for something else, or searching for a better deal.

Ashley Kaufman:
There are also corporate discounts to look at at larger companies. Discounts through loyalty programs. I'll occasionally get something in my inbox from Marriott due to my status. You get X, Y, and Z number of extra points for participating in this program we have going on, or memberships like Costco. Costco Travel actually has some great deals to be found.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Your money tip number three has to do, I think, with the ultimate in wellness and self-care.

Ashley Kaufman:
My third money tip is to always have a monthly reflection session. Whether you think that you need it or you don't, you probably do. It's just sitting down with your monthly credit card statements and your bank statements, and just seeing where there could be changes. It doesn't necessarily need to be cutting things, but it could be you have a subscription service like Ipsy or Birchbox, but every time you walk into TJ Maxx or Petco, you're buying makeup or things for your dog.

Ashley Kaufman:
You could be canceling those subscriptions and spending it on items that you really want, rather than what's just showing up in a subscription box.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's really good advice. I'm going to give that some thought, because I have a makeup/skincare subscription box that comes four times a year, that I do love the surprise element of it, but the truth is that they're not necessarily things that I would buy. I'm going to take that one to heart, Ashley. All right. The next one has to do with really the emotional elements. It's an emotional money tip.

Ashley Kaufman:
My next tip would be to don't make yourself feel bad for spending money, but live within your means. Don't spend more than you have, but don't make yourself feel bad for going out for a $5 coffee with your friends. I'm very guilty of this.

Ashley Kaufman:
I will occasionally cancel plans because I feel like it's not within my budget and it makes you feel bad because number one, you're ruining relationships with friends, and number two, you're really are developing an unhealthy relationship with money, where you feel like you have to cut something else in order to make up for something that really isn't hurting you that much.

Ashley Kaufman:
If it's not within your means, go ahead, cancel the coffee date with your friends. But if it's really not going to stop you from paying your bills that month, it might be okay to spend a little extra.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would add that don't forget that at many coffee shops like Starbucks, even though you think the smallest one is a tall, there's actually a short, which is even cheaper. You can get a short, plain coffee and have your coffee plans and not spend as much money as you... You don't have to spend for the 7 or $8 fancy espresso drink.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number five is my favorite of all, because you are a new pet owner, which is something that you did wait to do until you could afford it. We had a lot of financial discussions as a family because you have a dependent, Ashley.

Ashley Kaufman:
Yeah. Yeah. We just brought home my little dog, Walnut. She's a Maltese puppy. She is my entire world, but my tip related to dogs would be to always buy pet insurance, cats, dogs, whatever you can insure, always insure your pets. It should never be a question of whether you can afford care for your animal. I built my $500 deductible into my emergency fund when I went and signed up for pet insurance.

Ashley Kaufman:
I know that if something happens with my dog, it's a $500 deductible that I've covered in my emergency fund and then my insurance will cover 90% of it. I don't have to worry about calling the vet for the smallest of things. My dog had an episode in the middle of the night a few weeks ago where she was shaking. It wasn't super concerning, but I didn't hesitate to call the vet and find out that it was probably normal because I knew that I could cover the cost.

Bobbi Rebell:
I remember when you were thinking about adopting a dog, that you really in advance researched all the costs, including medical costs. I think that was so important because it is a dependent and it is important to understand the full scope of what you could be in store for, because you love your puppy. You're never going to say no and it's important to know what you're in store for. I was so proud of you just in the run-up to getting Walnut.

Ashley Kaufman:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, final thoughts and where can people be in touch with you? I know Walnut, the Maltese, is a big star as well so people might want to follow her.

Ashley Kaufman:
You can follow me on Instagram @AshleyKaufman or Walnut @Walnutthemaltese. Walnut is much more interesting on Instagram than I am, I have to say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you are the brains behind the Walnutthemaltese Instagram account, so you get credit for both accounts. Thank you so much. I'm so proud of you, Ashley.

Ashley Kaufman:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, Walnut is starting to get inquiries for brand deals. She is so unbelievably cute. Feel free to DM @Walnutthemaltese on Instagram. I loved how candid Ashley was about the importance of having a healthy relationship with money and prioritizing living your life. She's okay missing some music festivals that frankly, she probably just wasn't that into anyway, but she does kick herself for foregoing coffee plans with a friend because she's so committed to staying on budget. It's delicate.

Bobbi Rebell:
I've talked about my own issues letting go and letting myself spend money. The lines are blurry on this, but when it comes down to it, money is the means to do what you want, so do what you want. Apply that thinking and don't let an unhealthy relationship with money keep you from living your life. I would tell everyone to replay this episode, but the truth is, we have it all for you in the show notes. Just go to my website at bobbirebell.com for those. It also will give you a full transcript.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also can sign up for our newsletter there, where we send podcast previews and interesting news articles to you just twice a month. I haven't asked this in a while, but please take a minute and write a review of the podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you enjoy listening to us. That wraps up episode 400. Biggest thanks to all of you for supporting the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please, please help me get the word out. Tell a friend, share on social and just keep listening and being in touch on all the socials. Big thanks to Ashley Kaufman for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complementary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me, and you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney, host of the Mommy’s on a Call podcast shares easy and fun tips for getting kids on the right track to be Financial Grownups

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown up friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your Almost Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write, because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it. And I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important, because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it. And I really also appreciate all of your support.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
It's not that they really wanted that fancy purse because their girlfriend had, it's because they wanted it because they wanted to feel a part of something. And so how can you recreate that sensation and how can you recreate that that makes sense for your family?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to money tips for Financial Grownups with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of launching Financial Grownups, because you know what grown up life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Haven't we all been there? Seeing something cool that our friends have or hearing about an amazing vacation we would love to go on, but it's not always in our budget. For parents, if that want is coming from our kids, it's tough, but it can also be an opportunity. And that's what we are talking about today with our guest. Stephanie Uchima is a business strategist, wellness coach and the host of the podcast, Mommy's on a Call. She's a mom of three who has learned to leverage those kid-driven wishlist into really effective money lessons. She uses everyday events as well as planned games and experiences to make money lessons real. And her tips are for more than moms.

Bobbi Rebell:
Stephanie and I talk about so many great things, including the stock market game, which she will explain, it's for older kids and getting your kids to open up about what they really want when they ask for expensive things and pricey vacations. The truth is that's not often what they're actually after. Here is Stephanie Uchima. Stephanie Uchima-Carney, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am a huge fan of your podcast, by the way, which is Mommy's on a Call. You're also a business strategist and a wellness coach. And of course, because your podcast is Mommy's on a Call, you also are the mom of three kids. So welcome.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Thank you for having me. Yes. Three little kids.

Bobbi Rebell:
Three very little kids, one of which was a pandemic baby, so you have your hands full. we recently connected at a conference and we were talking a lot about, because I write about teaching older kids about money, you have a passion for teaching the youngest children about money. And so I asked you to come on here to give some tips to people who may have younger kids in their lives, their own kids maybe, maybe their grandkids, maybe their friends' kids, maybe their nieces and nephews. But I think there's never a time too early when the kid expresses interest to teach a child about money. Tell us more about why you're so interested in this. Have there been things that have come up in your life that have brought this to be top of mind for you?

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Yes. Well, so I kind of went on this journey of working on my own money mindset and really thinking about my own personal relationship with money. And I realized a lot of money relates back to your youth, back to your childhood. People have asked, "What's your very first memory of money? And so when I started to do my own reflection on that, I realized, "Wow, my own relationship with money has to do with when I was a very, very little kid." And so if I was a little kid when it shaped the future of my relationship with money as an adult, I need get to start early with my own children, so I don't basically screw them up for the future either. And so thinking about that, I was like, "Okay, let's learn more. I know they're young." So my kids are currently two, almost four and almost seven.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
They have play money, they have different things, but how can I start to instill the values and the relationship with money at an early age, so that when they are almost 40 years old going on a money mindset track down memory lane, they don't say, "Oh my goodness. Yeah, my mom and dad really screwed me up in the beginning."

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you teach little kids about money? Do you let them see what's going on on your phone, for example, when you pay for things?

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So we actually to just play with play money and I know they've seen Venmo, but they don't really understand what the digital money is. And I honestly think for toddlers and for little kids, that's a little much, but we do have play credit cards. And so my daughters are only two and almost four and they have a Mini Mouse grocery set and we play actual cash, like cash register and grocery. So there's a little cash register on it. It has fake money. It has one for a dollar, five for a five little coins and we go through it. I'm like, "I want eggs. The eggs are a dollar. Here's my money." I give it to them and they give it back or they understand that there's an exchange. And I always say, "It's not just money for something, it's also an energy exchange."

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So I go on it on two different ways. And I know that could sound a little woo. But I always say, "Money is just an exchange for the value you're giving me. Money is exchanged for a product, money's exchange for a service." We use money as a universal tool to help get different things. And so they have two cash registers. They have a learning resources, one, a mini mouse one, and we literally just play. So my big thing is teaching toddlers and little kids is to do it through play. So have them have their own little wallet with their own fake credit card. And sometimes I'll say, "Oh, I don't think you can buy that today. You need to make a choice between these two items, because you only have $5 and this one's $8 and this one's $1. You can get five of these." We play.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you do that with the credit card? Do you teach them that they have to pay it in full at the end of the month? How does that work? Do you come back to it on a different day? Do you teach them about interest and what would happen if they had a late payment? How far can you take it, especially for your almost seven year old.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So the seven year old, that's funny, because for a while he was like, "Oh, just charge it," or, "Just put it on that." And I looked at him and I said, "Honey, what do you think happens once you give this magical card?" Especially like Amazon, for example, because everything is one touch. He's like, "Just buy that on Amazon." And I'm like, "Oh, I can just buy it. It magically appears, but then what?" Then how does that work? And so we do. We talk to him about the concept of "It's not just magic. It doesn't just appear. There's a cost for things. And so if you want that, it's going to be this amount. And even though you give this magical thing and it happens, it still has to come from somewhere." And so it's really hard. It's easier when it's physical. I think it's really hard, at least personally, to teach them digital. But we also love using manipulatives and he loves math. So that's helpful is that he loves math.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So anytime he goes to a store, he'll look at different numbers and prices of things and we'll play games like, "What's that plus that?" Or, "If I bought two of those, how much would it be?" And so we play around with that to help also academically.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also play the stock market game, so they can learn to invest with play money. And that actually is all online.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So that's for older kids. So a little side note is I substitute taught sixth grade math for fun. I was actually a math major back in college, but never pursued that route. Recently, someone asked if I would substitute teach sixth grade and I said, "Why not? It'd be fun." And they're like, "Oh, and they have this thing called the stock project." So this is more for 11 year olds and 12 year olds. And I was like, "Oh, what's this?" And I started to research it and play it with them. And I think it's such a fun tool for probably 10 to 12 year olds is the stock market game. They were telling me, I was asking them questions. I was like, "Which stocks are you buying? Why are you buying that? What's interesting about that. Okay. If you decide to sell that," and it's really fun, that's all online. But it's a good resource because they can play with their play money. And when they lose, they understand that, because they can see the charts in front of them.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
And so I think that's a good tool. Also introducing them to what stocks are. What is investing? What does this mean outside of the way money works just in your house, how money can be invested and why companies need money and how that all works?

Bobbi Rebell:
You also talk a lot about how you can get your kids interested in savings and in automated savings and things like that. Talk about that and your unique approach to that.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
My kids still right now aren't really intrinsically motivated by money. They don't still really understand. Like my son, for example, his birthday's coming up. He's like, "I want this Pokemon thing." And so he has a little piggy bank. We go old school here. And he saved his tooth fairy money. He saved his birthday gift money. And then also I said, "You know what, instead of just leaving it here in your piggy bank, mommy's going to take that and we're going to open up a bank account for you."

Bobbi Rebell:
What's your advice to parents whose kids come home from school or whatever activities they have and, especially as we're hopefully emerging from the pandemic, parents are finally taking those trips that they put off for so long. You asked me this question now I'm putting it right back at you. And they hear about, for example, to use your example, they hear about their friend going to Hawaii. What do you do to your kid that comes home and asks mom, "Can we go on this trip that my friend is going on? We should do that too." And it's not that they're necessarily materialistic. They don't even necessarily know. But how do you manage that?

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
You're putting me on the spot now on my own question. The way I look at it is today, my son actually said, "I want to go to Hawaii to go rock climbing." And I looked at him and I said, "Rock climbing? What do you mean? We never have been rock climbing in Hawaii." He's like, "Remember that time we climbed on rocks?" I was like, "You mean in Joshua Tree?" I was like, "So you don't actually want to go to Hawaii. You just want the experience of rock climbing? Well, let's look at other places that we can drive to that's close that you can do that." I know a lot of kids are going on trips, especially like Disneyland or things like that. "Why does he get to go? Why don't I get to go?" And I always say kind of like what you say is "Our family makes different choices and we choose for our family and what's best for our family. And so this time we think it's fun since you guys have never been to," I think, well, we're going to a summer camp.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
"Since you guys have never been water skiing and things like that, we decided instead of doing something you've done before, we're going to choose something different. And it'll be a fun experience with the family." I always like to get at the root of what they really want. So maybe they didn't actually want that physical item or maybe they actually didn't want the trip to Hawaii. Maybe they really just wanted family time together. Sometimes we'll come back from a trip. And I'll ask. We went for spring break somewhere and I was like, "What was the best part of the trip?" And he looked at me and said, "Mommy and daddy were here with me for a week." I was like, "Yeah." So we could have been anywhere. We could have literally been home.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
And so it's what do they really want? And same with even when they're young, when they're toddlers. All they really want is to know that they're loved, that they are accepted for who they are. They just want to feel that comfort. And so materialistic money, all that aside, there's a root at what they want. So if they want an item, because they want to feel included, that's a different emotion. And so now you can address the inclusion part. It's not that they really wanted that fancy purse, because their girlfriend had. It's because they wanted it, because they wanted to feel a part of something. And so how can you recreate that sensation and how can you recreate that that makes sense for your family.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the way you frame that. Tell us quickly about Mommy's on a Call. Because I love this, this is my new obsession, this podcast.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Well, what happened was, is I had a podcast originally called Power Mom Minute and I wanted to interview all the successful moms in business, because I was very curious how they did it behind the scenes. How do you run a company and yet be a mom, because that was my aspiration to do. So I started this podcast and then got pregnant with a third kid, put it on hold, COVID hit. And in the middle of COVID, I needed an outlet and I was still curious, "What's going on in the world of moms?" I was on a phone call and my son was shooting a Spider-Man dart at me. I had a newborn that I was breastfeeding and I literally screamed out loud, "Mommy's on a call. Everyone, be quiet." I was like, "Huh." And the person on the Zoom was like, "That's your podcast name." And I was like, "That's perfect."

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
So it's a play on two things. Mommy's on a call, like "Go away." We're just going to figure out what's the behind the scenes of moms in business, career. And also mommy's on a call with different aspects of themselves. So I'm really big into multidimensional wellness. So that's not just health and or that's not just physical, emotional, mental. It's also financial. It's also career, which is occupational, environmental. And so mommy's on a call with different parts of the herself and her identity. So talking to you, mommy's on a call with finances and how can we better our financial future and our children's financial future. Or mommy's on a call with her health. And so I might interview someone on intermittent fasting or hormone health, because I'm personally curious. I want to see how you experts do it all.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I loved being on your show. I hope everyone checks out Mommy's on a Call. Where else can people find out more about you?

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
You can go to mommysonacall.com. You can find me on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter. It's all under Stephanie Uchima, that's U-C-H-I-M-A and follow me along there. I talk about all things motherhood and wellness.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Stephanie Uchima-Carney:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
The advice at the end of the interview about vacations is so on point to what is going on these days with travel. It's not only getting ridiculously expensive, it is also so difficult, it may honestly just not be worth it. So drill down with your kids when they're saying, "We want to go away." And by the way, this goes for your partner or your friends or whoever you will be traveling with and figure out if there's a way to get the same experience or a similar experience or a good enough experience, whether it's rock climbing, or just spending time together without the hefty price tag and not to be overlooked, the hassle factor. One thing that is hassle-free is getting the show notes and full transcripts to this podcast. Both are available right on my website, which is my name. So it's just bobbirebell.com, B-O-B-B-I-R-E-B-E-L-L .com. My newsletter is also available to subscribe to right on my website. Links to all of that in the show notes attached to the podcast, but also again on my website.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for investing the time to listen to this podcast. One thing I am asking in return and it's super easy and it's also free is to take just two more minutes to review my book, Launching Financial Grownups on Amazon. And, yes, the link to review this book on Amazon will be in the show notes, but you can also just find it by going to Amazon, finding the book and scrolling down, and finding where to review it. I am trying to get to 100 reviews and let me tell you, it's not easy. So if you do put a review on that page for me, it is noticed and it is appreciated. Your one review matters a lot to help me get to that goal. So thank you truly. I really appreciate it, guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
And please of course share it with me on social media. If you do review the book or just if you the podcast, please help share it. Help me increase my listeners, grow the community. DM on Instagram, @bobbirebell1, and on Twitter, @bobbirebell. And also check out my new TikTok channel. Is that what it's called? Is it a channel? I'm not sure, but I'm posting a lot of videos of me doing local news hits, which is super fun, because I'm giving advice about battling inflation and saving money and so on. And you guys seem to like them, so I love sharing them and I would love to hear from you there. And, of course, make sure you are subscribed not just to this podcast, but to Stephanie's Mommy's on a Call podcast. It's a great one. And big thanks to Stephanie Uchima for helping us all be Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of 100s of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me, so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being Financial Grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Media all-star Kim Rittberg gets us ready to exit our jobs the right way, and previews her new podcast: Mom’s Exit Interview.

---

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Grownup friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life By Helping Your Almost Adults Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work, but I really loved doing it. And I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it. And I really also appreciate all of your support.

Kim Rittberg:
Figure out number one, what is the life you want? What should that life look like? Are you looking to get more time to yourself, to spend with your kids? Are you looking for more fulfillment? Are you looking for a more flexible schedule? Get super clear on that answer before you leave, like don't slam any door until you know where you want to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey grownups. Quick ask, before we get into today's topic. I need your help big time. My book Launching Financial Grownups is out and I need your help to get this information to more grownups who can use the advice from my amazing experts in the book. As you know, I wrote Launching Financial Grownups because I was struggling and the information in this book has been everything to me. If you have not already, please pick up a copy. Please get one for a friend or a relative. And also this is so important, please take just a couple of minutes to leave a review on Amazon. We will have a link for that in the show notes. And if you have a group that you think would benefit from having me come to speak to them in person or virtually, get in touch. It's super easy. On my website, just hit the button on the top right that says Work with Bobbi and we can get in touch.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Now to this episode's topic. Are you curious about the Great Resignation? Are you reading about some scary stuff in the job market like rescinded job offers or people that regret quitting? Maybe you are already in the thick of it, but how do we make sure it doesn't turn into the great regret, whatever we're doing. We have you covered with the most amazing guest Kim Rittberg. Kim Rittberg has had the most phenomenal career in the media business with stints everywhere, from Netflix to Fox and PopSugar. She even launched Us Weekly Television.

Bobbi Rebell:
But then she had that aha moment. You probably have had it too if you're listening to this, and realized she wanted more control. And if we're being honest, more upside potential by stepping out on her own.

Bobbi Rebell:
But of course it's never that simple. We grownups know it never is. I've shared my own three year exit strategy from when I left my job as a business news anchor at Thompson Reuters. But what if you don't want to wait three years or you just can't, and what if you don't know where you want to go, just that it's not where you are right now? Kim and I talk about all of that and then get very specific in our interview with what you need to know before you make your exit, including, of course, the financial things we need to be putting in place. And my favorite, how do you know where to invest in your business as you are building it? Where do you put your resources? It's often limited. Where do you outsource? And how do you even find the right people to help you? It's a lot. So listen carefully to Kim. She gets it and she has incredible advice. Here is Kim Rittberg.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kim Rittberg, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kim Rittberg:
Thank you so much for calling me a grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are such a grownup. We've been gabbing a lot while we've been getting set up because you have a new podcast that has just debuting. It is called Mom's Exit Interview. And I asked you to come on to talk about exit strategies when we want to make big changes in our life. But first tell us about Mom's Exit Interview.

Kim Rittberg:
Yeah, so Mom's Exit Interview is pretty much a resource for moms to thrive when they've ditched the 9:00 to 5:00. Because people don't realize you think that there's stay at home mom, and then 90 hour work weeks on the corporate ladder. There's so much in between. And this podcast is an amazing resource. So every single episode, there's a mom, a real mom with an inspirational story where she's carving her own path and an expert with tips to guide you. So it's really meant to be that inspiration and action paired together.

Kim Rittberg:
And the reason I came up with it was sort of my baby. I had worked in media for about 10 years in TV. I launched the video unit for Us Weekly, like complete dream job. Like I made it. I was like, I made it. I'm such a big deal. It was awesome. I ran an 18 person team. I had my first baby, my baby, actual baby, and Us Weekly, my other baby. But what happened was when I being pregnant with my second, we were required, and I was in the hospital room having my second baby looking through resumes of all the people quitting, looking around at all the executives who were getting fired. I still had my job, but I thought, "Whew, I have no control." And so that really made me think I got to rethink my career. I need to take back control. If this is what success means, this is not the version of success I want.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's interesting because, so your podcast is about the mom experience, but the truth is that, and that is often sort of the tipping point for making a change is when you have a change in terms of your family dynamics, whatever that may be, this applies to anyone. Right now, we're going through what many people are referring to as the Great Resignation because so many of us are now rethinking where we want to be, what's going on around us. I mean, you weren't necessarily being forced to make a change, but you had this aha moment. Tell us about what you think about the broader picture of what's going on these days in society, because that had to have inspired this new podcast.

Kim Rittberg:
Absolutely. So I, funny enough, right before the pandemic is when I decided to work for myself. When I tell people about this idea, dads, millennials, all people are like, "What a great idea. Why is it just for moms?" I'm like the idea is not just for moms. It's really for people who want to take control. And I think you're seeing that entrepreneurial, grab the reigns mentality, strike more people. But I do think that parents were feeling it more during the pandemic because all of the things that make a parent feel stretched thin before really rose to the surface in a very visceral way. Never before have parents had to homeschool and work at the same time. It's just it was a banana situation, but those little pieces had been happening for a long, long time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Assuming that we have a choice because sometimes people have to exit what they're doing without a choice, but if we have a choice, what things should people do beforehand to be most ready to have an exit?

Kim Rittberg:
That's a great question. Because on the show, I've conducted tens of hours of interviews with real moms. And we have surveys of hundreds of moms that filled out this survey for the podcast about what they're looking for. And people quit with a plan, without a plan, but I do think there are some general guardrails in place. So in my experience, I left Us Weekly, I knew I wanted to work for myself. I actually didn't have the courage or confidence to do it for another two years.

Kim Rittberg:
So a lot of times I think people have those sort of mental blocks of, can I do it? Is this really the right move? And then there's the tangible things. Do you have enough money? Do you have insurance or does your partner have insurance?

Kim Rittberg:
So some of the things to prepare are A, if you're going to exit, what are you entering? Do you want to be an entrepreneur and grow a huge company? Do you want to be a part-time worker? Do you want to be a consultant? But figure out number one, what is the life you want? What should that life look like? Are you looking to get more time to yourself, to spend with your kids? Are you looking for more fulfillment? Are you looking for a more flexible schedule? Get super clear on that answer before you leave, like don't slam any door until you know where you want to go and it doesn't have to be career A. It doesn't have to be job B, but you should have your priorities really clear because otherwise you're going to find yourself going to the right, going to the left, not really knowing which direction to really lock in on. So get clear on what you want. Your priorities are the top thing.

Kim Rittberg:
Secondly, figure out your financial situation. It is different for everyone. Some people have a lot of savings. Perhaps they have a partner with insurance and childcare. That makes it obviously a clearer path to take an exit. So figure that out. You obviously need to cover housing, food, childcare, but think about which of those things are temporary and which are permanent.

Kim Rittberg:
One of the other things I think is super helpful that I've learned from the podcast, I was talking to Gretchen Rubin, the Happiness Guru, who is amazing. She's amazing. I'm like, I love you. I also love you, Bobbi. We were talking about chapters and how life can be in chapters. So another helpful framework is you're slamming a door. You didn't lock the door with a bolt and never go back. You do always have the opportunity to reenter whatever it is you want to. You don't have to go back, but you can go right, you can go left, you can go forward. So I think the framework of knowing that an exit could be an entrance to something else and you get to decide what that is. A lot of people think of it's that old, famous video of that Jet Blue person, this flight attendant who jumped out the window and quit, and storming out of your job and lighting it on fire. It doesn't have to be that. There are a lot of ways to exit and enter something that's really satisfying.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you balance the amount of planning you do with the actual doing? Because I have had friends that say, "I'm going to make a move," and then it doesn't happen. Or you also, sometimes people, as you just alluded to, take the leap and it's so dramatic and I'm just going to walk in and quit. Maybe they haven't thought it out well. So how do you kind of know what the balance is? And I say that, and I will talk about this on your podcast, I really took three years before I exited my corporate job. I did a lot of planning, but it was very specific with a timeline and everything. How do you balance that? Because you can spend forever planning.

Kim Rittberg:
You can definitely spend forever planning. I 100% agree with you. I spent two years knowing I wanted to work for myself, but not really understanding the financials of that. And finally, one day I said, "I'm going to do it. I'm going to network. I'm just going to see what happens." And I've had two and a half years of making good money doing some of the best work of my life, getting awards. You have to be clear in what you want. I think that clarity has to come.

Kim Rittberg:
Some of the tips that I have learned through the podcast is generally some of the ways that you can figure out that next step, if you have the time, obviously it's very hard to find the time, start doing that next thing as a side hustle. See if you like it, see if the money makes sense. See if there's clients out there, are people wanting what you're selling? So that's one way is to dip your toe in as a side hustle. The other thing is to make sure you have that financial cushion to make sure that you're not just quitting your job and then you feel unemployed. You don't want to feel unemployed. You want to feel empowered.

Kim Rittberg:
And the actual timeline, some people plan a business for years before they launch and other people spend six months, they make their plan. So getting the resources, like tapping into people. Getting your mentors, getting your coaches, doing that business plan, talking it out, and getting on the same page with your spouse or partner if you have one. That's another big thing is if you're going to make a big move, your whole house has to be aligned to that move, or it's going to be very hard for you to handle that. As you know, financial stress is the top stress for partners. So if you are going to make a move, your whole house has to be okay with that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And it is important to understand the difference between procrastination and planning, and understanding the balance of that. Once you make this leap and you do exit, Kim, one of the things that I worry about with people because I've been approached, fortunately, I don't think I've been scammed yet, but there's a lot of people... And it's not just scammed. There's a lot of people that can actually legitimately help you. That can really help you clarify, especially if you're a little bit lost, they can clarify with you what you want to be doing, because it is complicated. There are things that might be part of your business that are marketing and things that are revenue producing. And you have to balance that because some things can be so much fun, but they will never produce income. And if you want to have income for your family, you have to really have an understanding of that. How do you figure out who to bring in to help you and what kind of investments to make? Especially if maybe it's early and you don't have the cash flow to just pay for it out of your business, or if you need the cash flow to be supporting your family.

Kim Rittberg:
That's a great question. And I think there are several different points of view on this. Some people are in the camp of delegate everything, and delegate everything even before you're ready to. So when I was running a big company, I was like, "I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to delegate." Now that I run my own company, I do delegate, but I wait till I feel like I really need it and before I'm at that breaking point, then I hire help for that.

Kim Rittberg:
But in terms of bringing on coaches and all of that, there are a lot of people out there who would like to make money off of you. That's across the world. You go into a store, everyone's trying to sell you something, but figure out who you need to help you get to the next level. For some people, it's a business coach. You actually need to sit down and have your business plan. So on our podcast, I have this entrepreneur media business development consultant, and he gives you tips on how to find clients, how to price your business, how to make a business plan. If you don't know how to do those things, that's the right type of person to bring on. For other people, it's a graphic designer or it's a branding consultant because I think that when you're ready to take that next step, you need to have a brand identity and you need to really like have a good brand presence. Your socials, your site, all that stuff, but you have to be able to separate it.

Kim Rittberg:
And I think there are also a lot of people on social media, the idea that you have to be on social all the time, promoting yourself, and then you end up spending all your time there. You have to really think in your mind, balance your time between what is marketing and what is branding, and what is necessary, and where am I making my money?

Kim Rittberg:
So I had a huge year, my very first year actually working for myself. I had a huge year. I was barely on social media. My inbound contacts, all of my work was inbound. All of my clients were inbound. There were people I had met or contacts of contacts, and I did it through networking. So I think it's very important because a lot of people sell products or services that are related to marketing yourself. And I think social media marketing is super important, but you have to remember, at the end of the day, you got your checking and your savings account. How much money are you making? Are you bringing in money? Are these people who are helping you, are they going to help you bring in money? So I think you need to do that. I personally am a big fan of like word of mouth, figuring out are they legit, checking online sites, Better Business Bureau, all the things like that. I mean, a lot of coaches and people I brought on have been word of mouth. They have been recommendations from other business owners.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kim, you are such a gem. I want to remind everyone that beyond just rewinding this, I do provide transcripts because you're going to want to literally underline and circle everything that Kim has said. This is a tremendous resource. And we're so excited for your new podcast, Mom's Exit Interview. Tell us more about where we can find out more about you, and I know it's going to be everywhere the podcast. So the podcast is everywhere that you listen, make sure to follow and subscribe. I guess we say we have to say follow now, not to subscribe, but where can people find Kim Rittberg?

Kim Rittberg:
Thank you so much. So kimrittberg.com, R-I-T-T-B-E-R-G, is all things me and Mom's Exit Interview is there. And as a part of my business, I do media training and video content strategy. So I'm laughing. I'm like, "Don't hire coaches, except for me." I'm just kidding. But all of my information is that KimRittberg.com and this was so fun. And I really, my goal for the podcast is to be a resource for people to create a more fulfilling life. And so if I'm doing, that's awesome. And thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownups. I love how Kim gets real at the end of the interview, especially understanding that we have to focus not just on doing what we love, but understanding what will actually bring in revenue. It is something I'm trying to focus on more these days as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Make sure you go to my website. It's just my name, BobbiRebell.com, to get the show notes, with links to learn more about Kim's business and her new podcast, Mom's Exit Interview. While you are there, make sure to subscribe to my newsletter. There's a link in the show notes and on my website for that. We send the newsletter out every couple of weeks with articles and helpful information that can help all of us be financial grownups and it is free.

Bobbi Rebell:
Be in touch. I'm now on TikTok where I'm still figuring it out. Please help me. Give me ideas, give me suggestions, or any feedback in the comments on TikTok. So far, everyone seems to like clips of me on local news sharing advice on saving money and paying down debt and other grownup money skills. You can also find me super easy under my name, just Bobbi Rebell. Same goes for Twitter. And on Instagram, I am @BobbiRebel1. That's Bobbi Rebell with the number one.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I also want to be helpful to all of you in your business ventures. I would love to come speak at your company or perhaps at a client event. I have virtual and in person programs available on topics, including of course, Launching Financial Grownups. I talk a lot about intergenerational wealth and of course, how to maximize work life benefits. Links to more info on that in the show notes as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Go listen and subscribe to Kim Rittberg's new podcast, Mom's Exit Interview, and big thanks to Kim for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

Concerns of economic turmoil are rising, and while we can’t prevent a storm, grownups can take specific steps to get ready and take stock of how well prepared they would be if the time comes to batten down the hatches. 

Follow Jamie!

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• Website - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamiebosse/

• Buy Jamie’s book - Boss Money Mom

Follow Bobbi!

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• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

• Buy my newest book - Launching Financial Grownups

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Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. We love reading what our listeners think of the show!

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Grownup friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups, Live your Richest Life by Helping Your Almost Adults Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. And I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest. And it was a lot of work, but I really love doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it. And I really also appreciate all of your support.

Jamie Bosse:
We listen to the media, we hear what's going on. People talk about the S&P, the DOW. CNBC's talking about all sorts of things, and we tend to get wrapped up in what's going on with that. But we need to think about how this correction and how the market is impacting our lives, not necessarily that the S&P's down this much or up this much. So creating a benchmark that makes more sense is what is your goals, your objectives, your financial plan.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups. With me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what? Grown up life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Grownup friends. Are you watching the news and bracing for the worst in this ... and I want to stress, potential, economic hurricane? Well, probably not a bad idea to at least be thinking about it. But our guests today reminds us that just because we should be prepared for an economic storm, doesn't mean we will be directly impacted by that storm. I like that optimistic take. The wise woman I am referring to is Jamie Bosse. In addition to being the author of several books, including Money Boss Mom, Jamie is a certified financial planner. She also has that magical it factor when it comes to helping both calm us down and motivate us to do what needs to be done when it comes to being financial grownups. Among the things Jamie and I talk about, specific ways to build up cash as a cushion, AKA an emergency fund. So you aren't caught in an economic hurricane of your own.

Bobbi Rebell:
In this interview, you're also going to get her take on money shaming and how we can control things like our emotions. And what is most impactful for us to get to our financial goals, emphasis on our goals. Not somebody else's, our goals. And finally, the best things you could do if the stock market continues to stay under pressure. Here is Jamie Bosse.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jamie Bosse, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Jamie Bosse:
Thank you. Nice to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited to have you here. We have so much in common and that's kind of how we connected. I have my book launching, Financial Grownups. You have your book, which is Money Boss Mom, helping young parents be the boss of their financial future. So I think they're perfect complimentary books because you focus more on the younger side, although you do touch on older kids a little bit. And then I focus on the older kids. So it was perfect for us to connect. And I just thought you were so amazing, I had to have you on the podcast. And I'm glad we finally got you.

Jamie Bosse:
Well, thank you so much. I'm thrilled to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to talk more about your latest book, Money Boss Mom, in a few minutes. And by the way, you have a couple kids books, as well. But given everything going on in the world, in the summer of 2022, as we're recording this. I did ask you to give us some very grown up investing advice on how to weather what some people ... and I guess the some people I'm speaking about most prominently is Jamie Diamond recently made some comments about an economic hurricane coming. And now we've had a number of other high profile people sort of saying their own version of it. And it has a lot of people worried. But not to worry because we have you. You came with three tips, three money tips to help us all weather this economic storm, which we hope maybe won't come, but let's just say it does. So, thank you for that.

Bobbi Rebell:
The first tip you have is to have, maintain or build an emergency fund. That's tip number one. So tell us more about that. Because you have some specific ideas for exactly how to do that.

Jamie Bosse:
Yeah, so having an emergency fund is definitely a good thing to have in place during any time. It doesn't have to be an economic hurricane. But when these bad times do happen, it's so much better to have that in place. We saw this a lot in 2020 where a lot of people who owned small businesses just didn't have the customers that they normally did and the income that they normally did. A lot of people lost their jobs. And then when you get in a period where you don't have income or things are different or you have an unexpected expense of some kind, having a cash cushion really helps you get through that. So you're not having to run up credit card debt or borrow money from somewhere or take money from somewhere you shouldn't, like your 401k to make up the difference.

Bobbi Rebell:
And a lot of people had those emergency funds depleted somewhat during the pandemic. Of course everyone had different experiences. How do you suggest you kind of get back on track with that? Are there any shortcuts or sort of maybe tough choices that people can make to beef up your emergency fund, just in case?

Jamie Bosse:
I think a couple of tips that are helpful there is to really automate whatever you can. So if you are automatically directing some of your paycheck to a savings account that is specifically for emergency funds, you don't have to manually think about it to do that. And a lot of times, once you get used to that, you don't miss the money. Like it's just building on your behalf and you're not tempted to touch it.

Jamie Bosse:
So I think having an account that is separate than your normal bank accounts makes a ton of sense. Because the money's more out of sight, out of mind. Because I know even me, when I see I have a bucket of cash kind of built up, I'm like, "Oh, well we could buy this or we could do this." But if you have an earmarked specifically for emergencies and you're not seeing it every day, it has a better chance of being protected from your exciting expenses.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's so true. I mean, so many of us think this would never happen to us. So we let our cash get very low. I mean, you brought some relevant stats here, nearly 50% of Americans can't come up with $400 in the case of an emergency. And this is staggering because we all think we're in the minority if we were living paycheck to paycheck. But almost four out of five Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. So we think that we're alone in this, but it's really something that so many of us experience. If not now, at some point in our lives, we have experienced this. So we're not alone. I mean there's a lot of money shame that goes on.

Jamie Bosse:
For sure, yeah. And I think on the job front, 6 million people lose or leave their jobs every month. And the average time to get a new job is about three months or more. And the higher up you are in a company, the longer it takes. And so, there's a lot of periods in people's lives where their income changes drastically. Maybe not by their choosing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly. We talk so much about the great resignation, but that doesn't hide the fact that many companies are having layoffs right now. So sometimes you leave a job not by choice and without much warning. So in that case, those are things you can't control.

Bobbi Rebell:
Number two money tip that you brought to weather an economic hurricane is to focus on what you can control.

Jamie Bosse:
Yeah. So right now, you're hearing it in the media, you mentioned it with Jamie Diamond and others saying, a hurricane is coming. But what can you do about it? A lot of the things in the market are out of our control. The market ebbs and flows. That's kind of the one thing it is guaranteed to do, actually. Yet we still want to act, we're wired for action. We want to do something about it. Think about what you can control. So the things you can control are your emotions, like don't get too wrapped up in what's happening, focus on your life and how this impacts you. But also, what are you spending? What are you saving? Are you still saving for the long term? Focusing on those things that matter for your life and your plan and the things that you can control.

Bobbi Rebell:
And one thing I love about your book, Money Boss Mom is you have so many quotes that are from people we hear about a lot, but not always the quotes that we are used to hearing. One quote that I haven't heard in a while from Warren Buffet is, "Be greedy when others are fearful. And be fearful when others are greedy." That says a lot in very few words, right?

Jamie Bosse:
It really does. It's such a great quote. And it reminds us that oftentimes what our gut reaction is to do, is the exact opposite of what we should do when it comes to investing. So, when the market feels yucky like it does right now, things are scary. We just want to pull away. We don't want to invest anymore money, we want to take money out. But what we're doing when we do that is recognizing losses and missing out on big opportunities.

Jamie Bosse:
So technically the market is on sale. Everything is cheaper than it normally is, stock prices are low. So now is the time to buy more and put more into the market because you have more long term growth potential.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And also, be aware that the entire market may go down for a systemic reason because of these big picture issues. But that doesn't mean every company is being impacted. We might hear that, for example, here we are recording this in June of 2022, just to timestamp this. We're hearing a lot of retailers like Target have too much inventory. So that's something worrisome, but that doesn't mean that other companies aren't going to have growth. So you need to think about where is consumer cash, for example, going to be flowing going forward? Who's going to be on the up and up? So paying attention to individual companies in this case, it may be through a sector fund instead of an overall index fund. Could be an interesting thing to consider.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another thing that you can control that you talk about within this tip number two, about what you can control is spending your money. I mean, we are all consumers and we have made very different choices during the pandemic than we did before. Now many of us are sort of getting back to more normalized lifestyles, but that can be tricky.

Jamie Bosse:
Right, yeah. I think you want to zone your spending in on what your priorities are, what your values are for your family. And try to make sure that your spending matches that. So if there's a bunch of things that you're spending money on that you don't care about or you don't use. Now's the time to kind of reevaluate, look at those things and reprioritize, if necessary.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, it does make sense to check in, I would say, every three to four months and see what's going on. Because we have been making so many different changes. And I know I certainly had an urge to splurge this Spring and sort of upgrade my wardrobe because I hadn't done it in a while. And now I'm thinking, "Okay, maybe I'm going to take a break."

Bobbi Rebell:
Number three money tip is what are your benchmarks? And you have a big emphasis on the word, your. Tell us more about that.

Jamie Bosse:
Yeah. So when we think about markets like this, we listen to the media, we hear what's going on. People talk about the S&P, the DOW, CNBC's talking about all sorts of things. And we tend to get wrapped up in what's going on with that. But we need to think about how this correction and how the market is impacting our lives, not necessarily that the S&P's down this much or up this much. So creating a benchmark that makes more sense is what is your goals, your objectives, your financial plan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. It's so true because we're talking about this economic hurricane, but there's a common saying, it's an economy of one. You might not lose your job. You might not have any economic hardship. Your investments may be just fine based on your goals and you may have extra cash to invest, as you say, as things are on sale. So we really need to focus on ourselves, not always the big picture. Well being aware of the big picture, but it's not always about the big picture. Sometimes it is about us.

Jamie Bosse:
Yeah. If your financial plan is still on track and you're able to do the things you want to do, let the market kind of do its thing and make sure you're still focused on what your goals are. If you're younger and saving for retirement, you're actually benefiting from the time we're in now, because the money going into your 401k, the money you're investing right now is actually going in at lower prices. And so it has a lot more growth potential.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. Time is always on our side. So thank you so much. Before I let you go, though, I do want to give people a little sense of your book, your latest book, I should say, Money Boss Mom. One thing that really hit home is how personal this is. You come out right away talking about everything from your parents' bankruptcy, to the challenges of being in middle school. And other people have more stuff than you or more luxury things and wanting what other kids have. It's very real book.

Jamie Bosse:
Thank you. Yeah. I tie in a lot of my personal experience just growing up. And then also in terms of what I've seen clients go through and their kids go through. And it's a good compilation of all those things to help young parents kind of understand and manage and improve their financial situations going forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
And one of the things that I really liked about this is you break down different things based on the children's age that they should be doing, whether it's working, giving to charity, things like that. Different specific ideas. So I think that's really useful, as well.

Jamie Bosse:
Yeah. A lot of people in this age group, we want the next generation to succeed with money. We want them to have a better life than we did. So, we can start those lessons now as young as age three with our children. So I wanted to provide some helpful tips there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, it's a very readable, very accessible and understandable book. I truly enjoyed it. I obviously have a special interest in this space. So thank you for that. Tell us where people can be in touch with you and learn more about you and pick up Money Boss Mom.

Jamie Bosse:
Well, the books are available on Amazon. So there's the Money Boss Mom book and there's also the Milton, The Money Savvy Pup Series. I work for Aspire Wealth Partners for my financial planning. And you can check out my author work at MoneyBossMom.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.

Jamie Bosse:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think my favorite part of talking to Jamie was that she balanced being prepared for anything with also reminding us that we are absolutely not doomed and that we may be okay. In fact, more than okay. And for some of us, there may be opportunities on the horizon to improve our economic situation. Remember it's an economy of one.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what stood out to you in our interview? I'd love to hear from you guys, DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, on Twitter @BobbiRebell. And please follow my new TikTok channel where I share a lot of clips of my TV interviews, talking about things like inflation fighting ideas and ways to reduce your debt. We are also working to bring everyone the most relevant and readable news stories for financial grownups. We send out a newsletter a couple times a month. You can get on that list by going to my website, which is just my name, BobbiRebell.com, where you can also get show notes with links to our guests and anything relevant to the episodes, along with a full transcript. All of those things are free for all of you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love doing this podcast for everyone for free, along with the newsletter. But I could really use your help in return. I am trying to get to 100 reviews for my book, Launching Financial Grownups. It is super easy to leave a review on Amazon. We will leave a link to that in the show notes, as well. It makes such a difference. And thank you again to all of you who have already left a review on Amazon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to Money Boss Mom, Jamie Bosse, pick up her book, as well. Thank you to Jamie for helping us all be financial grownups

Bobbi Rebell:
Money tips for financial grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, BobbiRebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free. But I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and BobbiRebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse. Where you can join my money tips for grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting money tips for financial grownups.

There’s been mayhem in the markets. Here’s how to feel better about it.

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Full Transcript:

Grownups. I have some important things I want to say about the financial markets and I hope you will take them to heart. 

But first I just want to thank so many of you who have picked up my new book Launching Financial Grownups- it is such a great graduation gift for parents of young adults and also makes a great fathers day gift. I’m trying to get to 100 reviews on Amazon - I’m now in the mid-40’s and so I am asking once again if you can leave a review on Amazon. I really need your support and I truly appreciate it. 

 Now let’s get to this week’s episode. And just to time stamp this- I am recording this Memorial Day weekend of 2022. 

The last week was a bit of relief-  but the last couple of months things have been going down enough, that people are legit worried. It’s not just stocks that have been taking a big hit. Crypto has taken a beating. And All this while life is getting more expensive: Gas prices are soaring - mortgage rates climbing along with the interest rates we pay on all kids of debt- as are prices of seemingly all the things we pretty much have to buy to get through the day. And that doesn’t count artificially inflated prices like on baby formula which we are not going to cover in this episode but I just want to note- is so wrong.

For almost of of us- the pain is personal. I log on to my brokerage account, the one that has money for retirement which gets closer each day- and the number is- staggeringly depressing. It so much lower than it was a few months ago, and I don’t know about you but it makes me sad - and given that I am closer to retirement than to my career beginnings, honestly- a little scared. 

And I’m thinking about our 22 year old who just graduated college into all this- he  has been faithfully saving and investing money in diversified funds for a few years and who has been so proud and excited watching it grow- and I’m purposefully not bringing it up because I don’t want him to look and be upset- or worse - do something about it.

And that’s what I want to focus on- should you DO something about this. Because it’s hard to just watch. We want to take action. It feels helpless to just watch. 

We are human. We have emotion. And even though we know intellectually that the only days that count when it comes to whether you win or lose at investing is the price on the day you buy and the day you sell. It still stinks. We still feel a rush of excitement when our account gets bigger. We feel smarter. We are proud of our decisions as if we control the market in some way which is ridiculous. And we still feel that pang of failure when the number gets smaller and we just want to look away from the screen- and we are embarrassed because maybe we invested too much or we chose the wrong investment or we weren’t diversified enough or whatever and we should have done something different.

There’s also some smugness going on. People who were kicking themselves this winter for missing the big crypto boom are now feeling a lot better- they dodged a bullet. And had they invested in say January and sold in May it would have been a brutal loss. All true.

But the game is not over. In fact part of the magic is that unless we are forced to sell- and I hope no one listening to this is in that position- we get to decide when the game is over.

And so here’s are some things that I hope will make everyone feel better- especially for grownups who understood the risks and held steady as they watched their accounts shrink- reminding themselves that this is the part where the risk feels real. And the return is not guaranteed- but is historically consistent.

First - A short term view: Things may be turning around: All three major indices scored big gains in the past week, each rising higher than 6%. Both the S&P 500 and Nasdaq Composite broke a seven-week losing streak. For the Dow it had been 8 weeks of losses.  

As bad as the month of May felt, heading into the Memorial Day weekend the Dow and S&P 500 were both about flat in May and the Nasdaq was only down a few percentage points.

And while the market has priced in Fed rate hikes of half a percent, there is some buzz that if they raise rates in smaller increments, that could spark more upside momentum.

One thing to watch: what are hedge funds doing? They have been unloading holdings- so if they start to buy in the coming week, it could be a possible positive catalyst for the market.

And now- a longer term view: The S&P 500's average annual returns over the past decade 14.7%. That’s pretty incredible but it reflects some extremely strong years. I like it better than the even longer term perspective of 30 years which is 10.7 percent. But either one is going to serve investors well.

As for Crypto-  I have no clue where that is going and personally don’t own any as of this recording. But what I do know is that it is becoming clear that not all Crypto’s will perform the same and that investors should do very  careful and intense research when choosing which one to put their resources into- bitcoin, etherium and so on are very different from some of the less main stream crypto’s so please my grownup friends, tread carefully and make sure you are aware of the risk levels if you venture into this new world.

Finally- no matter where you are on your investing journey , I hope you shut down that scree and take a look around at your life beyond the numbers and not let them define your life. We are all much more than our balance sheets. 

I hope this has brought you some peace of mind. 

If you enjoy this podcast at all, it would really help me out if you would take a few minutes and write a review on Apple podcasts. I don’t ask that often and I probably should because it does really help make new people aware of the podcast and grow the audience so I can keep bringing you this podcast. 

I also love to hear from you directly so please DM me on whatever social media works for you- I’m at Bobbirebell on Twitter and Bobbirebell1 on Instagram and I am newly on Tik Tok at BobbiRebell. 

I also love to share money and investing tips beyond this podcast in my newsletter- it is now only going to be twice a month which I think is the perfect amount to give everyone value. So please if you are not on the grownup list yet- go to my website where you will see the button to sign up so we can include you. 

I wish everyone a wonderful start to summer- and sending good investing vibes to all of you on the path to being financial grownups. 

Home ownership is getting more expensive. But it is not impossible. I shared how our 24-year old did it- and how my husband and I helped give her just the right amount of strategic help- with Joe Saul-Sehy on Stacking Benjamins. 

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Full Transcript:

In this week’s episode Bobbi answers the question she is getting asked the most after the release of her new book “Launching Financial Grownups”

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Full Transcript:

Hi grownups!

I hope everyone is enjoying the spring and spending lots of time with their friends and family- hopefully staying healthy and having time with our loved ones in person. 

I’ve been enjoying getting out as well- and getting to share my new book: Launching Financial Grownups. Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids be Everyday Money Smart. In fact when this episode is released I will be in Los Angeles both for some speaking engagements and also getting to spend time with friends I have not seen since the before times. I’m so excited to get back out there in person. 

It’s been about a month since Launching Financial Grownups was released and it’s been so interesting seeing what people react to- a lot of people have related to my specific tips about teaching the next generation about money and also enjoyed the not always conventional  advice from the experts I was able to interview for the book including Tori Dunlap from her first 100k and financial therapist Dr. Brad Klontz. 

But there is one question that I keep getting when people learn about the book. And I have been surprised because I thought it was something people were more aware of - it wasn’t something I came up with myself and it wasn’t something that I thought would surprise anyone or really be that interesting. In fact it was kind of a last minute decision to expand the section in the book that talks about it. 

The question everyone has been asking is why do parents these days have such a harder time than their parents did- is there something different going on or are we just bad at this parenting thing even though we seem to be trying so much harder?

The last part of that question is the one that really gets everyone frustrated- should be we BETTER at parenting since we are paying so much more attention to it. I mean when we were coming of age, our parents didn’t pay nearly as much attention to us. They certainly didn’t spend as much money on us- and once we were out of school whether it was high school or college they just kind of let us figure it out. 

We’re working so hard to set our kids up for success. Many of us prioritize education and frankly almost any kid related expense over almost anything that seems indulgent or even wanted for us. And yet, their childhood seems to be endless. 

It’s even become a thing on social media. So many parents of early 20 something joke about the fact that their almost adult kids just don’t seem to leave the nest- financially. And the next generation is not shy about embracing their endless adolescence- joking that they are “adulting” as if doing something adult like in their 20’s is a game and they aren’t actually adults. 

But this didn’t just happen.

Parents are financially tied to their kids for longer for some very specific reasons. Here are some of them. 

First: The Affordable Care Act- aka Obamacare allows our offspring to be on our health insurance until age 26. So that often creates a financial tie in the family until age 26- boom- how do you cut off your kid when you are paying their health insurance. That discussion never happened when anyone who is a parent of a 20 something was growing up . 

Ok you’re saying- just limit it at that. But there are other things parents often pay for that also literally did not exist when we were growing up. Let’s talk about the cell phone bill. If it costs $100 for your kid to have their own bill- and your bill doesn’t go up much- maybe $25 to keep them on- you probably are going to do the math and keep them on there at least until they are .. say 26.. when that health insurance tie happens. But time slides- let’s just way a recent bit political investigation turned up a high ranking former presidential aide that was still on his parents phone bill. Google it. 

And who among us is going to take their kid off their Netflix and other streaming services if it literally costs nothing to keep them on. 

All of this is not bad- but it is something that keeps their finances tied to ours, and better for it. 

We’re closer to our kids and frankly tend to be more involved in their lives thanks to technology. When we were dropped off at college we could use a payphone to call home.. at some point. If we had a question about a life skill- we tended to ask around or figure it out. Now the answer is just a text away. Also a quick text away- money. As in, they can get money to us immediately. No waiting for a check in the mail. Which is a good thing because most young people haven’t even really dealt with physical checks. 

The point being- we’re there so solve their problems- instantly - and there’s a lot of good with that- but it also undermines their ability to develop their own solutions- financial or otherwise. 

And they need us more than ever because corporate America - for all it’s talk of upgrading the workplace - is also relying more on contract workers and many of our kids spend their first years in the gig economy- so they don’t have that structure that helped many of us feel like adults. They don’t have income reliability so how can they manage to have their own home- rented or owned. Ditto that for really being able to save up to live somewhere NOT their parents home. 

Which goes a long way to explain why so many of this generation of emerging adults live at home- which used to have a stigma. But will trillions in student debt and minimal wage gains relative to inflation- who can blame them. 

It’s a lot falling on our young adults- and in turn on us. 

So I’m glad we are all gaining a new appreciation of the challenges facing our young adult kids- and so we can understand how we can help them embrace being adults and move past the gamification of adulting. 

If this makes sense to you- I know you will really get a lot out of Launching Financial Grownups and I hope you will check it out. 

In the meantime I’m also giving some tips and having a little fun at my own expense over on Tik Tok- I keep it simple - the handle is just my name.. as it is on all social media except instagram which is bobbirebell1 - DM me or leave a comment on any of the social platforms with your ideas on how to tackle these challenges- whether you are a young adult or a parent- or if you just care about a young adult in your life. 

Also a reminder- if you are celebrating a big milestone this spring- graduation, mothers day, fathers day, an engagement or a big birthday- great gifts are available at grownupgear.com

Thanks so much as always for joining me as we all learn to be financial grownups. 

Parents and grandparents may be wary of crypto for their own portfolio's, but when it comes to setting up their kids for long-term investing success, UNest.co expects digital currency to be the gift of choice this year.

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1. Subscribe to the podcast, so you never miss an episode.

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3. Tag me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and you’ll automatically be entered to win books by our favorite guests and merch from our Grownup Gear shop.

Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. This episode is sponsored by UNest, start investing in your most important asset, your kids, with UNest. Soon, you will also be able to give the gift of crypto. Join the UNest Legacy waitlist and get early access, entry into giveaways, and much more. Visit unest.co for more information.

Ksenia Yudina:
We actually ran a survey on the platform to see what is it our parents would like to see next on UNest platform. Is it life insurance, credit card, debit card? How can we help? And overwhelming feedback was that parents want to invest in individual stocks and crypto.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobby Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here we go, grownup friends. If you are a regular listener, you know I spend a lot of time talking about how to set our kids up for success, especially as they get into the teen and early adult years. But it all starts early. And while money isn't everything, of course, having money ready for them to go fund those early life needs, whether it's college, a car, a first home, and yes, even a wedding, it is a wonderful gift that we can give to the next generation.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so I was fascinated by what I learned from a relatively new company called UNest, which is an app designed to help parents and loved ones save and invest for their kids. They found that in addition to stocks, which is a surprise to nobody, what parents really wanted to put in their kids investment accounts was crypto. And the reason why actually makes a lot of sense, especially when you're worried about the risks. We're going to get to that soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
I recently sat down with Ksenia Yudina. She is the founder and CEO of UNest. And we started by talking about her own experience getting started in her adult life which, like so many young people, included a mountain of student debt. Here is Ksenia Yudina.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ksenia Yudina, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Ksenia Yudina:
Hi, Bobbi. It's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much for coming on. You are truly a financial grownup. You came to the U.S. when you were only 18, put yourself through undergrad and business school. You've done so much with your life. We're going to talk about your company UNest in a minute. But you graduated, we're talking a lot about student loans, you graduated with I think $180,000 in student loans. Tell us how you did that.

Ksenia Yudina:
I came to here when I was a student. I was 18 years old. I was truly passionate about education. And I believe that education is a key to getting financial freedom. So even 18 years old, I kind of was very rational and logical person in that respect. So I put myself through college, got my undergrad from CSUN. And then later got my MBA from UCLA Anderson. I also received a CFA, which is one of the hardest financial exams in the nation. And I believe it just changed me as a person, right? I do know how to manage my own money. I'm trying to help my friends every day financial planning. And I'm trying to kind of save the country right now from the little bit of financial crisis we're going through right now.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I think you're talking a lot about what's going on especially with student loans and how to finance our education, how to finance the futures of young people. And to that point, your company is UNest. Tell us about UNest.

Ksenia Yudina:
Yes. UNest is an app that makes it super easy for parents to create and manage the account for their kids, the investment account, and get gifts from friends and family. The inspiration to start my own company, as you mentioned, came from kind of twofold. First, because I graduated myself with 180,000 in student debt. And a lot of my friends were impacted by the student debt crisis. Right now, it's estimated to be at 1.7 trillion. And a lot of parents, quite honestly, just want to build a better future for their kids and want to make a difference in their kids lives and give them more chance to success. The key to that is start saving early and investing for the kids future.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, on the surface, a lot of parents were told to open up a 529. Recently, there's been a lot of debate about where is the best place to really put the money for your young children as they grow up because there are limitations to 529s. UNest made a change. You pivoted from 529s to UTMAs early on. Walk us through that.

Ksenia Yudina:
Yeah, that's correct. I was actually a huge fan of 529s when I was working at Capital Group, my previous employer. And Capital Group was number one provider of 529s in the nation. And when we started the company, we focused on 529s because of amazing tax advantages and tax-free growth. What we realized in the middle of pandemic is that parents have different priorities for their kids and not necessarily want to save for college.

Ksenia Yudina:
The biggest limitation of 529 is that if you do not spend it for education expenses or for college, you lose all tax benefits and you get penalty of 10% on all the gains in your account. As we learned from our user base, parents want to save for some other things sometimes, for the child's first car or for the wedding day or for the first home. It's not necessarily college. And also, a lot of people were just questioning the value of college and the cost of education when everything shifted online during the pandemic.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that makes a lot of sense because I can say having raised three kids here, every kid is so different and their dreams and aspirations and their priorities can really vary. And we don't know necessarily when they're young where they will want to focus and where we can help the most as they become financial grownups. Why is it so important then to start saving and investing for children when they're really young, when we don't know necessarily what their priorities are going to be?

Ksenia Yudina:
Yes. I think that's the best way to set them up for success. Right? So I'll just give you quick example from my life. When I went through my undergrad, I actually got assistance from the government and I was lucky enough to get financial aids and all of that. But in the meantime, my parents did help me with the down payment on my first apartment, or the townhouse. I actually still own it. That resulted in such a huge value-add and just wealth building and gave me a great opportunity to kickstart my own savings and investment.

Bobbi Rebell:
Talk to me about the pandemic because you're growing this company during the pandemic and you had to make a lot of decisions. How did the pandemic impact the focus of UNest?

Ksenia Yudina:
Sure. So the first one, as I mentioned, that big pivot from 529s to UTMA, which is a different type of account that allows parents invest for other priorities for their kids. Another interesting observation during the pandemic was that gifting became super popular on the platform. So UNest gives this ability to gift for birthdays or other holidays electronically. And when people were hit with pandemic, a lot of times they were not able to celebrate holidays in person. That feature became extremely popular, just sending a quick gift to the child in your life.

Ksenia Yudina:
And another interesting thing during the pandemic and just most recently last year was huge demand for crypto assets. We actually ran a survey on the platform to see what is it our parents would like to see next on UNest platform. Is it life insurance, credit card, debit card? How can we help? Overwhelming feedback was that parents want to invest in individual stocks and crypto. So that's what we're doing right now. We're actually launching it in few months.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, you have a waitlist for this product, which is kind of mind blowing to me. Tell us about this new crypto product because I know a lot of people are interested in it. And why move into digital assets, especially as you're still a growing company?

Ksenia Yudina:
Yeah. As we look into the future, the next 10, 15, 20 years, people realize that crypto has a lot of potential. And it does have a lot of interest right now. Everyone reads the news. Everyone expressed some interest in buying, holding crypto. And sometimes when people are hesitant to buy it for themselves, when they think about their kids and that long, long time horizon, they understand that this is the asset class that has the highest probability of appreciation. It just reduces risk, right? Like when you think about holding something that might be volatile in the short term, but you think about holding it for the next 10, 15, 20 years, all of a sudden you realize that you can withstand that risk.

Ksenia Yudina:
Another observation is that parents want to learn more about crypto. We would like to provide about 30 coins on UNest platform, and we will provide educational component so they can actually learn what each coin means and make informed decision when they buy something for their kids.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that educational component is so important. Before we wrap up, I also want to touch on, there was just a piece in Fortune about how you've been helping employees in Ukraine and Russia. Tell us what you've been doing to support them since the war started. I know this is something obviously, you're from Eastern Europe, this is something that is really in your heart these days.

Ksenia Yudina:
When I started UNest, the goal was to create a truly global company. So we hired people from all around the world. And today, I'm proud to say that we have team members in U.S., Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Belarus. And as situation in Ukraine escalated, our top priority as a company was safety of our team members. So we acted very quickly to relocate them to safe zones outside of those impacted by the war and provide financial assistance to our employees and their families.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, thank you very much. This has been so interesting. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you and about UNest, which I want to tell everyone, by the way, is unest.co, co not com, unest.co.

Ksenia Yudina:
Yes. Yes. Thank you. They can find out more about us and actually get on the crypto waiting list on our website, unest.co. And just search for us in the App Store or Google Play. You know, the app is available. They can read some reviews. They can learn a little bit more about the product if they just simply go to the App Store or Google Play.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your social media handles. I forgot to ask you.

Ksenia Yudina:
Yeah, it just @unest. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much.

Ksenia Yudina:
Oh, thank you so much, Bobbi, for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So friends, now I'm thinking after this interview, if we're on the fence about crypto, is the best way to manage risk to create the longest time horizon by investing for the next generation? I'm curious to hear what you guys think. DM me @bobbirebell1 on Instagram or Bobby Rebell on Twitter. And I'm now on TikTok. They said it would never happen. But please check out my videos there. It is an understatement to say I could really use your support. And by the way, my new book, Launching Financial Grownups, makes a great gift for Mother's Day, Father's Day, and of course, for parents of high school and college graduates. Don't just get presents for the graduates, get presents for the parents, right? Give it to each other.

Bobbi Rebell:
Anyway, make sure to check out UNest at unest.co. That's unest.co without the M. And download the app to get on the Legacy waiting list and enter their giveaways. Big thanks to UNest founder Ksenia Yudina for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobborebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complementary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and Bobby Rebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.

As much as we try to do right, we all fall into some common money mistakes. Ash Exantus joins us with 3 to avoid, and a special challenge for ambitious grownups.

3 money mistakes to avoid

• Mistake 1: working hard for money- instead of letting money work for you

• Mistake 2: having the wrong number of bank accounts

• Mistake 3: saving money - you should actually invest first

---

Follow Name!

• Instagram - @iamashcash

• Facebook - @AshCashExantus

• Twitter - @iamashcash

• LinkedIn - @iamashcash

• YouTube

• Website - www.iamashcash.com

• Max Out Your Income Challenge

Follow Bobbi!

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• Twitter- @bobbirebell

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• Website- http://www.bobbirebell.com

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Full Transcript:

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grown-up friends, a big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working. I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear. By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work. But I really loved doing it, and I'm really happy with how it came out.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it, and I really also appreciate all of your support.

Ash Cash:
Instead of focusing on active income, meaning, working for money, we have to focus on passive income, which means that once we make the money, we use that money to buy income-producing assets and let those assets buy the things.

Ash Cash:
Then if we decide to continue to work for money, we just keep that cycle going. So that way, we're growing wealth, instead of relying on our physical labor in order to manage our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups because you know what? Grown-up life is really hard. But together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Grown-up friends, get ready to smile and be really excited about your money and the potential to have more of it. No get-rich-quick ideas here. You know I would not take you guys there. But today's guest Ash Cash Exantus is going to help us all see the money mistakes that we make and also provide some easy solutions that can work for all of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ash Exantus, AKA Ash Cash, is often called the Hiphop Financial Motivator because he uses a culturally-responsive approach to teach financial literacy. He's also a speaker and a bestselling author of many, many books. We're going to talk about that. Lots of books, lots of money coming from books for him. He is also very much a financial grownup you will learn a lot from. Here is Ash Cash Exantus.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ash Cash Exantus, you're a financial grownup. I'm so happy I finally got you on the program. Welcome.

Ash Cash:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi. I appreciate you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We were joking before I started recording. I have been trying to get you on, literally, for years since we met at Shannon McLay's Financial Gym, which is now virtual, so hey, Shannon. So glad you're here. What have you been up to the last few years? You have, oh, I don't know, 11 books going on?

Ash Cash:
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah, just writing books and making sure people get their minds and their money right so they could live in abundance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is apropos. Your company is called Mind Right Money Management. Tell us quickly about that.

Ash Cash:
Yeah. I think a lot of times people always think about the practical things as it relates to managing money, but they have to focus on a mindset first.

Ash Cash:
So when I started doing this work, I said, no, I can't. Everybody wants to lead with practicality, but the practicality is really the mindset. So mindset or Mind Right Money Management is really a company that teaches how to change your mind in order to manage your money the right way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is so important, and one of the important mindsets, it's also to understand that as grown-ups, we make mistakes. It happens all the time, and it's part of the learning process, and that it's a really important thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
You brought with you three mistakes that we grown-ups need to be aware of so that we don't make them. We probably are making a lot of them already. I mean, I know mistake number two is something I may be doing. I'm excited to hear what you have to say about it so let's dive right in.

Bobbi Rebell:
Mistake number one is working hard for money, instead of letting money work for you. Tell us more about that and what we need to be aware of.

Ash Cash:
Yeah. Number one, society, school, everything teaches us that we have to go to work, work hard. Then once we make some money, we buy things with the money, and then we continue that cycle of working hard, working hard, we put a little bit away.

Ash Cash:
But the truth of the matter is that if we want to create financial freedom, we want to build wealth, we have to change that relationship with money. Instead of focusing on active income, meaning working for money, we have to focus on passive income, which means that once we make the money, we use that money to buy income-producing assets and let those assets buy the things. Then if we decide to continue to work for money, we just keep that cycle going. So that way, we're growing wealth, instead of relying on our physical labor in order to manage our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give me a practical, real-world example of that.

Ash Cash:
Yeah. Young people are taught to buy a home first to live in, but you can house hack. So imagine a young 20-something-year-old or any age, to be a hundred percent honest, if they're saving to buy to become a homeowner, instead of buying a home to actually live in, you buy a home, a multi-family home and you rent it out. So now, immediately, you have achieved mortgage freedom because you live in one apartment, you rent out the other apartment, and then what you're renting that other apartment for pays for your mortgage and so now that rent is covered.

Ash Cash:
I wrote 11 books. Books are a great example. You write it one time, and so it took me active work for me to physically write these books. But after the books are done, you sell them over and over and over again. My first book, I wrote that in 2009, I still get checks to this day from something I did over 12 years ago.

Ash Cash:
So those are two high level and low level, if you will, examples of how I took active work to make money, but then now that asset is paying me over and over and over again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Mistake number two, this is the one that has me sort of second-guessing myself. Mistake number two is having the wrong number of bank accounts. I've never given it that much thought. Tell us more about how many bank accounts should we have.

Ash Cash:
Yeah. Everyone should have four bank accounts. Most people have the two. Mainly, people have one, they have the checking account. Some people have a checking and a savings account, but the savings account never accumulates anything because once they start to save, they get the buy one, get one from Macy's and then they charge so much through the checking account.

Ash Cash:
Everyone should have four accounts. You should have a spending account, and so that's the money that you allocate to spend money, and so whatever your bills, once you start allocating things, you want to have a bill account.

Ash Cash:
Let me back up a little bit. You should have a bill account first, and your bill account is where the money is going to go to pay your bill. So you should have a debit card attached to that bill account, everything should be automated, paid online.

Ash Cash:
You should have a spending account. You should have money put aside whatever the percentage is to spend, and that's in a checking account.

Ash Cash:
You should have a savings account, and that savings account is going to be for when you separate your budget from short-term spending, long-term, midterm goals. You should have a savings account and that money goes there.

Ash Cash:
Your fourth account should be a financial freedom fund. People call it an emergency fund. Words have power so we're not calling any emergencies into our lives so we call it a financial freedom fund. Every time you get paid, you should have a percentage of money that goes into your financial freedom fund.

Ash Cash:
But here's the kicker, Bobbi. Your financial freedom fund should not be in the same bank that you have your checking account. It could be a online bank. It could be a regional bank. I do not want you to have a debit card attached to it. I actually want you to make it so inconvenient that you don't even remember that you have this account. In fact, when you get paid, I want you to automate it somehow where the money goes automatically to that account and allow that money to grow. As that money grows, you use that to increase your wealth.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm processing all this, but, okay, I feel like I just got a homework assignment from you because I don't have my funds set up that way, and I bet a lot of our grown-up audience does not. So this is a lot to really think about and really incorporate into our lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
The third one is you lose money saving money. Invest first, save last.

Ash Cash:
Yes, yes, yes, and this is old advice. So I was a banker for 15 years, and I remember when I first started my career as a banker in 1999, that was the last time rates were probably like 4, 5% in the CD. Since then, you are, literally, losing money if you keep it in a bank. Especially now with the economy being what it is, I think inflation is over 7%, which means that if you're not at least making 7% in your checking account or your savings account, you're losing money.

Ash Cash:
When you think about investing, whatever investing means for you, whether it's index funds, whether direct stocks, mutual funds, whatever it is, if you look from a long-term investing perspective, the average is going to always beat inflation. So if we are looking to truly manage our money the right way by looking at or activating old advice, we're literally losing money.

Ash Cash:
So we have to invest first. Invest your money first. When I say savings, yes, you'll have that financial freedom fund because you want to have some liquidity. Things happen and so you want to have some liquidity, you want to have some cash available if things happen. But minus the financial freedom fund, let's start getting into investing as soon as possible. Because once you start investing, you take advantage of compound interests. You think about dollar-cost averaging.

Ash Cash:
You think about this year, stocks have been a rollercoaster. Some people get afraid at this time. But companies are, literally, on sale right now. So if you do what's called dollar-cost averaging and you're like, "You know what, let me start investing now," the companies that you would've gotten at $100 or maybe at $20 right now, you better buy them up. Then by the time the economy rebounds, your account's going to start looking nice, really, really nice.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it is important to dollar-cost average and to buy when you do see value, of course. I know you would also counsel people if you're buying individual stocks, make sure that they're down because of things like the overall market tone, not because of a company-specific reason so I just want to add that caveat in for people.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's the biggest mistake you think people made in the pandemic in terms of financially? Because it really threw so many people for a loop and a lot of us really, you talk about the stock market, we thought the market would crater during the pandemic, and it did for like a hot second and then it came right back. So I'm just curious to know your observations, what you're seeing among your clients and everybody that you work with.

Ash Cash:
Yeah. I think the number one money mistake that was made during the pandemic, we didn't pivot fast enough.

Ash Cash:
There's four types of people in the world. You have consumers, producers, investors and philanthropists. Most of us are just consumers, and I think that the pandemic gave us a great opportunity to become producers and investors, and we didn't pivot fast enough. We knew the world how normal it was, and we thought normal was going to come back where normal was never coming back.

Ash Cash:
So people got so used to meetings on Zoom and digital that if whatever our expertise was, if we jumped on it and said, "You know what, we're going to start providing that from a digital standpoint," there were so many digital millionaires made during the pandemic and I think that was the biggest mistake was that we were trying to hold on when it was time to kind of double down on our expertise and reach more of the world because everybody was home. Everybody didn't know what was next, and we could have reached our consumers faster had we pivoted.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we all need you on our side. Before I let you go, you have a challenge for our listeners.

Ash Cash:
Yes. So I have the Max Out Your Income Challenge, and it's, literally, helping people do exactly that pivot. Wherever you are in the income spectrum there is always that next level. So I've been able to max out my income through books, creating 15 streams of income from books. So if you go to maxoutyourincome.com, you could join the five-day challenge and take your income to the next level.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, congratulations on all, and thank you so much for joining us. Where can people reach you besides, obviously, we know where to get to that challenge, where can people reach Ash Cash?

Ash Cash:
Yeah. You could follow me or go to my website, iamashcash.com or follow me on all social media platforms at iamashcash.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much.

Ash Cash:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, grown-ups, I think we can all agree Ash Cash has a way of getting us newly re-motivated to take action on our finances. I think my favorite takeaway was when Ash reframed the idea of an emergency fund as a financial freedom fund. It just seems more optimistic.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was your favorite takeaway? DM me on Instagram at bobbirebell1 and on Twitter at bobbirebell and let me know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you who have bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups. I have another ask, but it's a really easy one and it doesn't cost a thing. Please leave a five-star review on Amazon. You can keep it short and sweet, but having more reviews makes a big difference in getting the book discovered so we can help more people learn about money and generational wealth.

Bobbi Rebell:
Speaking of generational wealth, I would love to come speak to your company or organization and book clubs. I have some great virtual and in-person programs that you can learn more about by going to the Work with Bobbi tab on the top right of my website, bobbirebell.com. That's B-O-B-B-I R-E-B-E-L-L.com. You can also get show notes and transcripts of every podcast right on my website and check out my adulting merch store, GrownupGear for fun gifts. If you're going to graduations, bachelor and bachelorette parties, housewarming parties, birthday parties, whatever you're celebrating, we've got good stuff to give your friends and relatives. Super cute fun stuff to make everyone smile.

Bobbi Rebell:
With that, I wish all of you well, and especially a big thanks to our guest Ash Cash Exantus for helping us all be financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC, editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show, as well as show transcripts, by going to my website bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, connect with me on social media at bobbirebell1 on Instagram and bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me and, you know what, it really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your grown-up friends and treating yourself as well. Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time, and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.