The holiday season can be a great opportunity to teach young children money lessons including needs vs wants, the importance of saving and investing, and the power of giving. Bobbi talks with The Wisest Investment author Robin Taub, about the best ways to have those talks, and make an impact on your kids.
Money Tips
Talk about needs vs wants
Find Opportunities where children can learn how to be generous
Learn how to have a conversation about money with kids of any age
The important lesson that children can learn by walking away empty handed
Have children use their own money when purchasing things they want
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Facebook - @Robin-Taub
Twitter - @robintaub
LinkedIn - @robin-taub-cpa-ca
Website - https://robintaub.com
Robin’s Book - The Wisest Investment
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Full Transcript:
Bobbi Rebell:
I know the holidays are a time we're all supposed to get excited about, but sometimes it just feels like I can't celebrate until I get through my never ending to-do list. That includes gifts. It's exhausting. I love the smile on people's faces when I get them something that's going to be meaningful and that they love, but the truth is it's also really hard and I'm really getting tired of giving people the same old, same old. I feel like we're finally emerging from this pandemic and I just want something that will get them to smile. So my team and I have been working really hard to up the ante over at Grownup Gear with some super fun new stuff. My personal favorite, the baby bibs and the Wednesdays with phrases like, "I can't believe you're the grownup either," and new colors and designs of our top selling generosity line. And for the holidays, if you spend just $50 on any of the items from our Generosity collection, we will gift you a $10 gift certificate that you can spend on something to be generous to, well, yourself. Just use code holiday, H-O-L-I-D-A-Y. Thanks again to everyone supporting Grownup Gear. Your business helps support projects like this podcast, which remain free for all of you. Happy holidays, guys.
Robin Taub:
It's really hard as parents not to rescue your kids and you say you've done it, I know I've done it, and you're standing there and they're so disappointed, but it is a really important lesson that they have to understand that money's a finite resource and you have to do some planning and you have to do some research and know what things cost and whether you have enough.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money, being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Grown friends and happy holidays, whatever holidays you are celebrating. It is the season for so many good things, but we also want to make sure that we keep our kids from developing bad money habits, because that can happen with all the giving that goes on. Giving and getting presidents is good, don't get me wrong, but we just want to make sure that the young people in our lives don't get a sense of entitlement. Not just because we'll have to live with it, ugh, but also because it's just not going to serve them well as they grow into being grownups. Robin Taub is the author of The Wisest Investment: Teaching Your Kids to be Responsible, Independent, and Money Smart for Life. While she's based in Canada, her lessons are really universal. In my interview with Robin, we talk about using the holidays as an opportunity to teach kids, well, to be their best selves, maximize the fun and giving spirit of the holidays and not get caught up in all the bad stuff. All the me, me, me, get me, get me, buy me, buy me. Right? We've all heard that. Robin is so warm. You can tell she has a great heart and really cares about teaching young people. I think that's why we bonded so much. You're going to love this interview. Here is Robin Taub.
Bobbi Rebell:
Robin Taub, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Robin Taub:
Thanks Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
We are of like minds across international borders. You are Canadian, I am obviously a US citizen, but we are like mines because we both are very interested in teaching children about money. I heard about your book, The Wisest Investment: Teaching Your Kids to Be Responsible, Independent, and Money Smart for Life and I had to have you on the podcast, so welcome.
Robin Taub:
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, so this book, full disclosure, it is a book that is has Canadian references, but I think there's a lot of lessons that are universal and cross the international border between the US and Canada so I think that we're going to have a lot to discuss.
Robin Taub:
Good.
Bobbi Rebell:
Starting with the fact that you specialize in teaching parents how to teach their kids about money and in the book you go through different ages. You really start at the very youngest ages. It is the holiday season. It's a time when little kids may be asking for more and more and more, and this may be a time when things slow down a little bit with the older kids, the kids in elementary, middle school, maybe even high school, they may have more time to be around you. What kind of opening does this create for parents to have those discussions about money and money lessons with their children?
Robin Taub:
I think with holidays and gifts, you can have a talk about needs versus wants because I think this is the time of year where everyone wants the fun things, the things that are not must haves for survival, but the nice to haves. So having a conversation with your kids about what things cost and if they're working, how many hours it would take to work, they would have to work to earn something like the equivalent of what they want. Just talking about things like even buyer's remorse and thinking before you buy something, being more mindful about your spending.
Bobbi Rebell:
One thing that parents want to teach their children about obviously is being generous and giving. What kind of opportunities are presented around that during the holiday season?
Robin Taub:
I think you could be going with your kids to a place where they're giving out hot meals to people that are homeless or having trouble this time of year. It could be donating dry goods or new toys to an organization that's collecting for families that are in need this year. I feel like doing a project like that as a family really does help put things into perspective if your kids are developing a sense of entitlement and it just opens their eyes up to the fact that not everyone lives the way that they do. It teaches them to be grateful for what they have, which I think is a really important message all year round but especially around the holidays when they can be a little bit demanding of all the things on their list.
Bobbi Rebell:
What are some good ways to even open the conversation about money with kids, especially at the younger ages, if they don't show an interest in it and they don't really ask you? How do you even bring it up?
Robin Taub:
Yeah. As you mentioned, my book does start at the younger end around five, and I say that it usually does start when they go to school like preschool and they can see what other kids have and do and they might start expressing a curiosity around money. If they haven't initiated it and you think that they already based on their maturity, you can start with cash and you can start by showing them bills and coins and how you use those to pay for things, assuming you still do here and there. You would play county games with money. Canadian money's actually a lot more colorful and interesting than American money. That's something that I did when my kids were little, but it's always about sharing age appropriate information. You're going to interest a five year old in things that are outside of their little world. What does an ice cream cost and what does an apple cost? What about this toy that they want? How much does that cost, and showing them how you would actually add that up with cash and pay for it.
Bobbi Rebell:
One thing that is interesting is in the book you talk about if a little boy, I forget if it was a little boy or a little girl, whatever, if a child wants something and they're short, like they have a certain amount of money at the store and they come up short, many parents, and I myself have been guilty of this, pony up the last dime or whatever it is, you say not to do that.
Robin Taub:
Yeah, there is a story in the book about letting your child walk away empty-handed because they didn't have enough, they hadn't saved enough, or maybe it was a simple question if they didn't have enough for the tax, the sales tax. Again, that's another really good teachable moment because it's not just the sticker price, it's all these additional taxes. Yeah, it's really hard as parents not to rescue your kids and you say you've done it, I know I've done it, and you're standing there and they're so disappointed, but it is a really important lesson that they have to understand that money's a finite resource and you have to do some planning and you have to do some research and know what things cost and whether you have enough.
Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting because that's sort of an evergreen lesson and many of the books lessons are evergreen, but the book is actually 10 years old and you've updated it. Tell me about what changed over the last decade when you went back and looked at it, how has the world changed and therefore, the way that we teach our children about money has changed?
Robin Taub:
Quite a bit, it's changed quite a bit, and in two major ways, I would say. The first is that we live in an increasingly cashless and digital society. With young kids you still want to teach them with cash because it's tangible and concrete and it's not as conceptual but older kids are ready to learn about digital money, but that has been a huge change. We are rarely using cash anymore. We are tapping, we are using our phones, everything's being done from our phone or computer. A lot of people were taught about money using jars and using cash and sort of when you run out, then you know you can't spend anymore. Well, that doesn't really happen anymore. We also don't feel that same pain of loss that you feel when you hand money over to somebody, when you just tap. It just doesn't feel that same visceral feeling.
Robin Taub:
You have to build some of that friction back into the system. As much as technology has made spending so much easier, and it's really changed the game on how we manage money, you can also use it to help you. I think that this move to digital has been huge in how we teach our kids and some of the challenges.
Robin Taub:
The other thing was COVID, was the pandemic. It just felt like it was a wake up call for parents. Well, for everyone really, about being prepared financially and about the importance of making sure the next generation is prepared, whether it's something crazy like a pandemic where things were shut down for a while and some people weren't able to work or be prepared for something good like some kind of a financial windfall. On the downside, a lot of people didn't have emergency money and they were really scrambling until the government stepped in with assistance. Just how important it is to have that safety net built.
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you think that the pandemic made or created a situation where parents were more candid with their children about money?
Robin Taub:
I think that especially teenagers and older kids, they are aware of what's going on in the house and I think it is catalyst for some difficult conversations. You want your child to have some context as to what's happening in the household, if you have to say, no, maybe this year celebrations are not going to be what they have been in the past for that reason, but you all also have to take on the responsibility of managing the household. You don't want to overburden your child with too much information or worry them, even teachable moments like taking your kid grocery shopping, that was such a go-to example, and all of a sudden no one was going to grocery stores, everyone was shopping online so just how do you then use those as opportunities to teach your kids?
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you can also sit at the computer with your kid and go shopping online with your kids all the same.
Robin Taub:
Yeah, for sure.
Bobbi Rebell:
The other interesting thing is that you talk about digital tools. We can also see when I ... I no longer give my child actual cash. He has a debit card that actually works through digital, is through his phone on Apple Pay and so I can see everything he buys. How would you recommend, sometimes I don't like what he buys. How would you handle this with a child? How do you discuss what they're buying when they don't necessarily fully understand that you see everything?
Robin Taub:
Yeah. Well, is your child a teenager?
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, this one is. He's 14, yes. But any kid that has a debit card, I think it's a great tool because you used to, you'd give them money and you kind of don't know exactly but here you can see. They were at Dunkin' Donuts at 3:30 PM with their friends after school.
Robin Taub:
Yeah. That's a good example. You're right. With cash it's not traceable, so he might have been doing that. You just didn't know about it. With teenagers, the allowance that you're giving them, assuming you're having a conversation or I recommend parents do have a conversation about it, what are the expectations? Is it just for their wants? Is it for just going to Dunkin Donuts after school? Or is it supposed to cover some other things, maybe cell phone or ... Have that conversation about who's paying for, what are they working? Are they contributing also? Are you just paying for everything in the household? Most parents aren't charging teenage kids living at home rent or anything like that. But just going over what their daily spending or their weekly spending looks like.
Robin Taub:
Then I would sort of try and step back because you don't want to fight every little battle, as you know as a parent. You don't want to be arguing over every wasteful coffee or drink or fast food meal that they buy. If you've kind of got the big picture category sorted out, you're giving them some money for entertainment and some money for transportation and clothes, and I think within that, you want to let them do what they want because they are going to make mistakes and waste money and you kind of want them to, because that's how you learn.
Robin Taub:
Speaking of coffee, my daughter went through a phase in high school where she was going to Starbucks all the time after school. I know when I would take my kids to Starbucks, I wouldn't get anything because it was expensive when for two or three people. When she was going every day herself, she was spending 5, $6 at a pop, so that could be $30 a week.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did you ever talk to your daughter when you were going to Starbucks with all of them and buying them treats and not-
Robin Taub:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Not buying yourself. Would you say to them, "I'm buying you, but I'm not buying myself because it's too expensive?"
Robin Taub:
Yes, I would.
Bobbi Rebell:
It didn't work, Robin, they didn't-
Robin Taub:
I know.
Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:13:36]
Robin Taub:
It might make me look cheap, but I didn't really care because I was like, "I don't really need this or want this that badly," and it was more like an outing so it was like, "Happy to buy it for you guys, but I don't need this so I'm not going to spend the money on myself." But I think it became for her the social thing. It was like they went en masse after school as a group and you don't want to be the odd kid out and whatever, but it can really add up. My son was the same, but for him it was cans of pop at a convenience store across the street. If you bring up from home, it's way cheaper.
Bobbi Rebell:
How do you handle that peer pressure to spend money with kids? Because that's what you're talking about.
Robin Taub:
It is and it's so hard now because it's in person and it's online with social media and social commerce and stuff. Yeah. It's a really hard thing. Again, I think it goes back to needs versus wants. Just emphasizing that with your kids, first we have to take care of the must-haves for survival and then if there's money left over for the nice haves, okay. When they start working, even as teenagers and they have to earn some of their own money to pay for some of the things that they have FOMO over or peer pressure over and they know that they have to work a certain number of hours to be able to afford that thing, it makes it a lot more real for them. When they're spending their own money compared to when they're spending yours, it just hurts more.
Robin Taub:
Even if you've given them that money as an allowance, as you were saying, it's still their money and they have ownership over it and they know if they spend it on this, they won't have it left over for that. It forces them to make these choices. I think that's another way. Doing those family philanthropy projects that we talked about maybe around the holidays, but all times of year schools are always doing fundraisers, just also reinforces the fact that life is not just about consuming and having the latest this and the greatest that, and just having some kind of a gratitude practice, even informally at home like going around the dinner table and everyone sharing one thing that happened that week that they're grateful for, it just changes the context from this whole got to have it, got to have it now, I deserve it to life's about a lot more than just stuff.
Bobbi Rebell:
What's your number one money tip for parents?
Robin Taub:
I think for parents it's to try to get their own financial house in orders so that they can be good financial role models and lead by example. Kids are watching and listening and learning and they are aware of both the good and the bad money habits in the home. They're modeling us, we are their role models for so many areas, including with money. I think that's an easy way, in some ways it's hard if you haven't done that, if you're not financially on top of things, but if you are then just by doing what you do normally you're teaching your kids. They have a good example to follow.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much. Where can people follow up with you and be in touch?
Robin Taub:
I have this book that has now been updated called The Wisest Investment and that is the name of the website where you can find it and links to it as well as some free resources. I actually have an exercise from the book that will help parents figure out if they're a good financial role model and how they could become one. That's all on thewisestinvestment.com and then on social media, I'm Robin Taub which is T-A-U-B.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.
Robin Taub:
Thanks, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
So much great stuff in that interview, especially that last part about the fact that whether we are aware of it or not, the kids are watching how we talk about money and they are probably a lot more aware of what is going on with us financially than we realize, especially to so many of us were home so much more with those kids around in the last year and a half. I love this topic and I am so excited to start sharing more about my next book, Launching Financial Grownups with all of you soon. To learn more about it, please go to my website, bobbirebelle.com, you can learn more just in the dropdown menu, click on books, but also sign up for my newsletter. There's an invitation right there waiting for you when you go to the website and I will keep you posted.
Bobbi Rebell:
In the meantime, I would love to hear your tips on this topic or if you have any more questions or topic suggestions that you want to hear more about on the podcast. DM me on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and on Twitter @bobbirebell, and big thanks to The Wisest Investment author, Robin Taub, for helping us all be financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by Steve Stewart, guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find in the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts, by going to my website, bobbirebelle.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.
Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First connect with me on social media at Bobby rebel, one on Instagram @bobbierebell1 and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share the is podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. You know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com by picking up fun gifts for your Grownup friends and treating yourself as well. Most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together, we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind word so many of you send my way. See you next time and thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.