Kelley Holland, author of You Are Worthy: Change Your Money Mindset, Build Your Wealth & Fund Your Future joins Bobbi to share strategies financial grownup strategies to boost your money mood and get back on track to your money goals
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Full Transcript:
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. A big thank you to so many of you that have already bought my new book, Launching Financial Grownups: Live Your Richest Life by Helping Your (Almost) Adult Kids Become Everyday Money Smart. This book was not easy to write because I had to get honest with myself about what was working with my teen and young adult kids and what was not working, and I also had to be prepared to share it with all of you. So first of all, thank you for your support and your wonderful responses to it. There's definitely some things in there that you may not have been expecting to hear.
Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I got a lot of help from my money expert friends and also financial therapists and parenting experts. I am really happy with how Launching Financial Grownups came out, even though it really was hard to be, like I said, that honest, and it was a lot of work, but I really loved doing it and I'm really happy with how it came out. On that note, if you have not already, please pick up a copy of Launching Financial Grownups today. After you do, please share it on social media. Please leave a review on Amazon. Those reviews are super important because the algorithm picks up on them and that can make the book a lot more visible to more people. So I truly appreciate it and I really also appreciate all of your support.
Kelley Holland:
A lot of financial health has to do with small steps taken on repeat, and you can start taking those steps today. And the sooner you start, the sooner you'll feel better.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of Launching Financial Grownups. Because you know what? Grownup life is really hard, but together we got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love the line from our guest that we heard in the open. Just think about it. A lot of financial health has to do with small steps taken on repeat. It makes me think about that movie Groundhog Day with Bill Murray, or even better, 50 First Dates with Drew Barrymore and Adam Sandler doing the same thing over and over. Yeah, it's pretty basic, but in this case, when it comes to investing, basic will likely serve us all well. My guest is Kelley Holland. She is a longtime financial journalist with stints everywhere from The New York Times, to Business Week, to CNBC, where I got my start. She is also the founder of Own Your Destiny. She is a financial coach and is now sharing her wisdom with all of us in her new book, You Are Worthy: Change Your Money Mindset, Build Your Wealth, and Fund Your Future.
Bobbi Rebell:
In our interview, we talk about why women sometimes don't trust ourselves with money, and quite simply don't believe in ourselves. We lack the confidence. Kelley and I also talk about the jargon in the financial industry which often alienates so many of us and makes us feel intimidated. The truth is money skills are skills that have to be learned. And Kelley does an amazing job in our interview of sharing the best way to get past those obstacles that are keeping us from doing the things we know in our hearts we need to do. A lot of us, we just don't want to make mistakes. You're going to love this. I'll see you on the other side. Here is Kelley Holland. Kelley Holland, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Kelley Holland:
Thank you, Bobbi. I'm delighted to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
We're excited to have you here to talk about among other things, your new book, You Are Worthy. And in just a few minutes, we're going to talk about three ways to stop feeling bad about money, which is something that is a theme that runs throughout the book. But before we get there, I want you to tell us a little bit about yourself and how you came to write this book.
Kelley Holland:
Well, this is a bit of a long and winding road. I spent a couple of decades in business and financial journalism at various national publications, and along the way I started writing about personal finance and became really focused on women's money challenges. A lot of them are structural and we know them. The pay gap, the more time we spend out of the workforce, the fact that it's harder for us to save. So there's all that. But what I realized after a while was that there was something else that seemed to be going on. Because I had lots of company sharing information with women about you should do this and you should save this way and here's a way to think about your savings and retirement. But nothing was changing. The pay gap was stuck, the workforce participation was stuck.
Kelley Holland:
And so I realized something else had to be going on and I decided it had to do with mindset. The more I talked to women about how they felt about themselves in relation to money, the more I saw that there was a mindset that kept a lot of us from bringing our A game to deal with the real challenges that are out there. So the book distills that and what I learned from my coach training and what I've learned from my clients as a financial coach. And it's all put together in a way that's designed to both encourage you and educate you to take charge of your money.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it's also very relatable in that you have specific, and although you do keep people anonymous, you have very specific stories and very specific challenges that the people you interviewed. And it's a substantial number of people. I think over a hundred, you said-
Kelley Holland:
Over a hundred.
Bobbi Rebell:
... that you interviewed for this book. And the stories, I mean, if you don't relate to the first one, you're going to relate to the next one and probably the next one. And I think that's something very special about the book as we see each other in the people that you present to us in the book.
Kelley Holland:
Well, I really wanted to include that because one of the things that goes on with women and money is we feel uncomfortable talking about it and then we wind up feeling alone with our money challenges and we sort of feel like are we the only ones who feel this way? So part of what I wanted to do was not just be a talking head saying, "Do this, do that, I believe in you," but also make available the voices of other women just like my readers, who offer examples of, "Look, this person does feel the way you do and they're just as successful as you are, but they still have these hangups."
Bobbi Rebell:
So we have to change this. So you brought with us, and this is just a small snippet of the kinds of information you have in this book and the kinds of, frankly, specific, actionable things that people can do in the book. You brought with you three ways to stop feeling bad about money, the first of which is really recognizing that no one is born financially literate. Tell us more about that.
Kelley Holland:
Well, it's true. We aren't. We don't come out of the womb knowing how to manage money. And Bobbi, you're an ace at raising financial grownups so you know this, that this has to be taught. But it's kind of luck of the draw as to whether we do learn this along the way to adulthood. Not everyone can have you for their mom. And we do know that parents tend to talk to sons more than daughters about money, and they definitely tend to talk to sons more about investing and making their money grow. We also know that most states don't require financial education to graduate from high school, which I think is nuts, but they don't. So it's really up to chance as to whether you ever learn this stuff.
Kelley Holland:
And then women also get a whole lot of messages about being bad with money and being chronic overspenders and silly and irresponsible. So we start to kind of underestimate what we do know. So yes, if you feel like you don't know this material and you're beating yourself up about that, remember no one is born with this and it's just a matter of chance as to whether you get it growing up or not.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I think you bring up an interesting point because a lot of the information out there is focusing on fixing problems rather than applauding success.
Kelley Holland:
Absolutely, absolutely. And that's such an important part of moving forward with something that really takes time, like getting control over our financial lives. It's really important to be able to notice when you're succeeding and reward yourself in some fashion, even if it's just a silent pat on the back, but notice that you are doing something good for yourself and you can keep doing it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's move on to the second way to stop feeling bad about money, and that is to remember that what happened in the past is over. And by the way, side note, this applies to relationships too.
Kelley Holland:
This applies to everything.
Bobbi Rebell:
We tend to bring the past with us and project it forward into the current situation and we need to kind of break away from that.
Kelley Holland:
Absolutely. And it applies to the six cookies I ate last night. I mean, come on, there's nothing we can do, but what you can control is ahead of you. So recognize that and recognize that, as I said, a lot of financial health has to do with small steps taken on repeat, and you can start taking those steps today, and the sooner you start, the sooner you'll feel better.
Bobbi Rebell:
And now the third way that we can stop feeling bad about money, and I love this one because it is so specific, although you have some extra things you're going to add in here. Use the power tools at your disposal. I feel better about everything already just reading that.
Kelley Holland:
Well, you do have power tools. Look, let's be serious for a minute. Now money is, and we know at the end of the day, just a tool for living. That's what it is. No more, no less. We attach all kinds of emotional weight to it and we have all kinds of complicated feelings around it. That's why I wrote You Are Worthy. But it is just a tool and there are other tools that you can use to make good use of money. So one of these is automation. If you, for example, were to set up an automatic deposit from your paycheck every time so that you were putting 25 or 50 or a hundred dollars in a savings account, you would be building an emergency cushion for yourself and barely feel the pain if you just took it right off the top and you made a decision once to do that. And then just you're much more likely to let it run. So that's a power tool at your disposal.
Kelley Holland:
Another one is you don't have to do all the specific work of investing. You don't have to become an expert stock picker, if that's even a thing. You can invest using funds and you don't even have to invest in funds where you research the managers to find out who's super smart. You can use passive funds like index funds and many exchange-traded funds. I know you've had other guests on who've gone into detail about this, and I don't want to go down too far on that, but just using funds is a big time saver. Even financial writers like Michael Lewis will say that this just, when they do this, it saves them enormous amounts of time and worry. And then another one is harness-
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, but let me just, I do want to caution though, what are the things that you need to look for when choosing a fund? Because even if you just look at the returns, it's a little bit more complicated in terms of what you will actually earn. I mean, some of them are a lot more expensive, for example, than others, and you have to know what you're paying for and whether you want to make that investment as well. I guess active versus passive, you've explained, but there are still fees involved.
Kelley Holland:
Absolutely, and it's a great idea to be really watchful of fees because if you think about, I mean, just the math is, over time, more or less, you're going to earn about 7% a year in the stock market if you smooth it out. So if you have a fund that charges a 1% management fee, you're giving away one seventh of what you could be earning. So just be very aware that even what might look like a small percentage for a fee can add up to a lot in terms of your returns and your performance.
Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. And then of course, time is money. Literally.
Kelley Holland:
That's your third power tool is the power of time. The sooner you can get your money invested and working for you, the more time the growth on your investment has to grow. And that's how you get that multiplier effect where you really can build wealth.
Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of women might be hesitant to invest. For example, right now as we record this, we are in by some measures a bear market. People are very nervous about the stock market potential or current recession, however you choose to define it. What do you say to people who say, "Okay, I get it, but I'm just going to wait till things calm down," which is almost wait to do something in your life until you have "more" time. And that never really comes. What's your advice to people that are skittish about the market right now and very afraid? And it's a valid fear of losing money if they put it into the stock market or other investments.
Kelley Holland:
It's a very valid fear and the markets are choppy right now and they're more often than not going in one direction. They have been since January. It's really unpleasant. The first thing is take the long view. Recognize that if you're investing now, you're investing in a market that has fallen more than 10%. So you're better off investing now than you would've been in January. Second, you may be super brilliant, but none of us know exactly when the market will turn around. So it's impossible to know and the only way to participate in that eventual uptrend is to be in the market.
Kelley Holland:
And then the third thing I would say is that even after all that, if you're still nervous, it's perfectly fine to tiptoe in, just like tip toeing into the ocean instead of just diving under that wave. You can, if you have a thousand dollars to invest, invest $200 today, 200 next Monday, 200 the Monday after that, and so on. It's a perfectly fine way to invest. The key is to just get started.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the biggest resistance you get from women when you were interviewing for this book? I don't want to call them excuses, but when people say, "Oh, I like your ideas, but it's just not going to happen because." What are you hearing from them and how do people overcome that?
Kelley Holland:
Well, for some of them, they just don't want to deal with it. I mean, when I interviewed these women, the offer was spend half an hour with me, talk about money. I'll anonymize your responses and I will offer you 30 minutes of free coaching. I only had two women sign up for the coaching. And I had other people spread the word about this whole thing and one of them answered back, "I'm not doing it. I would rather walk on hot colds, but I will tell my friends."
Bobbi Rebell:
Why? Why was that?
Kelley Holland:
Well, there's an version to entering this space because a lot of us feel less than capable. We don't like to do things we feel we're bad at. I mean, I'm not going to tell you the last time I picked up a tennis racket. It did not go well and I haven't done it in a long time. We don't like to engage with these things. We also can very easily feel overwhelmed. You and I both know that the world of finance is full of jargon and it feels kind of male. And even if you think about it, the language is pretty male. When you think about targeting return, beating the market, benchmarks, it's all, it's kind of male. We don't talk about, as a well-known study said, knitting a portfolio. It sounds weird, right? But that is what we do. So it's easy to feel unwelcome in this world. It's easy to feel ill-informed. And it's easy to feel like something's going to go wrong if you try it. So it's, for many women, easier to just look away.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the solution? How do you get them to the table?
Kelley Holland:
So the thing to switch, I think, is around mindset and around self-trust. Because when you have a sense of self-trust and self-worth in this space and you believe you can do this and you have clarity about why you would do it, the goals that managing your money will help you achieve, then you can go out and start building your net worth. You can get the skills, you can create the plan, and you can get to work.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, your book, You Are Worthy, is a great first step in that direction. Tell us more about where we can get the book and more importantly, where we can get in touch with you.
Kelley Holland:
Sure. So the book's available wherever books are sold. Patronize your local Indie bookstore, buy it from Amazon, everybody has it. And if you want to find me, you can get lots of resources on my website and the easiest way there is kelleyholland.com, which is, here's the tricky part, K-E-L-L-E-Yholland.com. And then you can also find me on Twitter, @KKelleyHolland, and on LinkedIn. And I spend a lot of time on both.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much.
Kelley Holland:
Thank you, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
There is something I don't talk about publicly that I have decided to start sharing, even though it can be a bit embarrassing. I get digital overload and it stresses me out for good reason. Because when you have so much junk on your computer because you're not as organized as you should be because you get caught up in all the things that you have to do, if you don't deal with it, all of that stuff on your computer starts to really slow things down and can become a total drag on your productivity. For me, there is nothing worse than finally motivating to get stuff done, only to be derailed by a sluggish computer that is just not cooperating. A little while ago, I decided I was going to stop just kind of hoping that things would get better and I was going to deal with it.
Bobbi Rebell:
I downloaded something called CleanMyMac. It's from a company called MacPaw. I was skeptical, but I took a deep breath and I tried it. Long story short, it totally worked. I loved how I could see it work through my files with clear and easy to understand graphics. I could see what was messing things up. And CleanMyMac would ask me for my okay before deleting files so that something I did need to keep didn't go bye-bye. That was one of my biggest fears.
Bobbi Rebell:
I recently reached out to the company and they are offering 10% off to my Financial Grownup listeners who want to also get CleanMyMac. To get that 10% off CleanMyMac, you do need to go to my link. It is bobbirebell.com/CleanMyMac. B-O-B-B-I R-E-B-E-L-L.C-O-M/CleanMyMac. And that is all one word. I promise you, you'll be so happy. I want you guys to be in touch with me. Let me know how it goes. You deserve to lower the stress of data overload. Trust me. So worth it.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that point that Kelley made at the end about not wanting to do things that we are bad at. I mean, obvious, right? That's fine when it comes to something like what Kelley said about tennis, okay, of course. But it's not really optional when it comes to things like paying attention to and making intentional decisions about our money. What stands out to you from Kelley? I would love to hear from you. You can DM me at @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and at @bobbirebell on Twitter. And please check out my TikTok channel. I'm trying so hard. I really would love your feedback because I am definitely still figuring this one out.
Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, for those of you that do follow me on social media, you probably have seen that I'm starting to try to get out there more to more conferences and gatherings and see people IRL. I would love to get to meet some of you in person, so please reach out if you are having an event come up, either something with a group you belong to or your corporation wherever you work, I would love to be a part of it and help out. Just go to bobbirebell.com/speaking. Like I said, I would love to be part of it and help make a great event.
Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, make sure you're also following Kelley Holland. Her socials are in the show notes, which are available right on my website, bobbirebell.com. Just click on the podcast tab. You also get full transcripts there. Kelley is doing some great stuff on her book tour, so try to drop in on one of her appearances IRL or virtual. And with that, I want to say a big thanks to Kelley Holland for helping all of us be financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media LLC. Editing and production by Steve Steward. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support, and show notes by Ashley Wall. You can find the podcast show notes, which include links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup.
Bobbi Rebell:
The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram and @bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups Club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you. You can also leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Reading each one means the world to me. And you know what? It really motivates others to subscribe. You can also support our merch shop, grownupgear.com, by picking up fun gifts for your grownup friends and treating yourself as well. And most of all, help your friends on their journey to being financial grownups by encouraging them to subscribe to the podcast. Together we got this. Thank you for your time and for the kind words so many of you send my way. See you next time. And thank you for supporting Money Tips for Financial Grownups.