Our summer watch party continues with the controversial new Netflix reality tv series My Unorthodox Life. Bobbi and Jessica Goodman, best-selling author of “They Wish They Were Us” and "They’ll Never Catch Us” explain why it’s getting serious backlash, and why they can’t stop watching it anyway.
A Little About The Show
Jessica Goodman:
Yeah, so the premise is that there's this woman named Julia Haart and she's in her forties and she's the CEO of Elite World Group, which is a modeling conglomerate. She's launching a fashion line. She's this very glamorous, seemingly free kind of woman. She's married to an Italian man who used to be her... She used to work with at La Perla. She has four kids, kind of teenagers and young adults. And the show kind of frames this as, this is this crazy kind of New York city family, but twist... She used to be Orthodox Jewish and live in a community in upstate New York called Monsey, which is known for being very insular and having lots of different groups and communities and sects of Orthodox Judaism living there.
Jessica Goodman:
I have some thoughts on the problematic framing of this narrative. That the fact that they kind of frame it as a twist is a little bit othering in a lot of ways, but her whole thing is that she's not a part of this community anymore. And her kids are involved with the community to varying degrees. Her youngest son is... I think he's either in late middle school or early high school, and he still lives up there with his father and is very much a part of the community. And her other kids have varying levels of faith in Judaism.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm kind of amazed that they all agreed to so enthusiastically be part of this show, but they really... I almost feel like they're prepped for it and they're ready and roaring to go, which seems a little jarring. I don't know. And the clothing. I mean, I don't even know where to begin with the styling and the wardrobe on this. I mean, it's over the top. I guess that's part of why I had this Kardashian feeling and I have not been a loyal viewer of the Kardashians. I've kind of watched a few episodes over the years so I'm not really necessarily qualified to say that. But it's pretty flashy.
Jessica Goodman:
Oh, totally. And I feel like that's definitely on purpose because she's framing herself as a fashion mogul and she came into the fashion world having no experience in it and knowing nothing about it and yeah. The fashion and the glam and all of that really is such a part of the show. And also obviously I've been doing deep dive stalking of everybody who's on the show and her oldest daughter Batsheva, who's 27 or something. She's a full fledged fashion influencer. Has a million followers on TikToK. She was doing that before the show launched. So clearly, this is a family where fashion is a big part of it.
Bobbi Rebell:
And the show is a very deliberate and polished show. There's nothing accidental in this show. It is structured. So give me your take. I mean, I find this fascinating. I didn't binge all of it yet only because I've been blocked by other true obligations, but I'll probably finish the rest right after we're done taping this because it's so fascinating. What's your general takeaway from this? Just to begin with.
Jessica Goodman:
Yeah, totally. I mean, you told me we were going to talk about this show and I had heard about it a little bit and I was like, oh, I'll watch an episode and see what happens. Fast forward four hours, I'd watched basically the whole thing. I couldn't take my eyes away from it. I think it's extremely compelling television. But yeah, the whole thing is super contrived. It's very clearly... They decide what the storylines are going to be. There's nothing real about it. It's very much like The Hills in that way. Fake reality. And Julia is an executive producer on the show, just like the Kardashians are executive producers on their show. So you're getting the lifestyle and the perspective that she wants you to see and I think you have to really take that into consideration when you're viewing the show.
Jessica Goodman:
I grew up and I'm still a reformed Jewish person and I think what's most interesting to me is seeing the different levels of Judaism portrayed on the show. One of the daughters is basically... I don't know if she considers herself secular, but she is 20 years old and she eats treyf, like oysters and all those kind of stuff. And her older sister is still Orthodox and has a very contrived storyline with her husband about whether or not she's going to be wearing pants, when she's also wearing an off the shoulder shirt. The whole thing is kind of fake, but I'm interested in seeing these conversations play out within the family and how they accept one another's different parts of religion.
Jessica Goodman:
I think there are some really problematic moments in the show too. There's been a real big backlash against her from women in the Orthodox community who say that she portrays them... That Julia says that Orthodox women don't have free will. And a lot of Orthodox women are coming out and saying that's not true. We do have free will and this is how, and this is why. I'm not part of that community so I can't really speculate or comment on that. It's really interesting to watch it play out and to see what she... How she has reinvented herself. No matter what you think of her or the show, this woman reinvented herself.
Jessica Goodman:
And some of her history, there seemed to be some gaps in it. I would really love a real deep dive fact check on what she's been up to since she left the community. But again, like I said, I can't stop talking about it. I've been texting with lots of friends about it. I can't stop watching. It's fascinating. And I can't stop searching for them on Twitter and Instagram and just figuring out what they're up to. Okay. So this is my big word vomit about the show, but that's what I think.
Money Tips and Lessons Learned
Bobbi Rebell:
That's all very valid. What drew me to the show, coming from my sort of perspective, was the money thing. And one of the things that I think is interesting is there is a missing link in how she sort of went... Because it hasn't been even a decade, I think, right? How did she go from having nothing? And they do make a point in the show that they don't... That the women certainly, and also the men to a large degree, are not educated in any formal way. We do have a storyline, for example-- this is a little bit of a spoiler-- that Batsheva's husband Ben, only has a high school education and therefore his career prospects are limited because that's all they do. They study Torah and they get a high school education and I presume the women have even less of an education.
Bobbi Rebell:
One thing I really admired, and again we don't get the full picture, is that she did find a way. She understood that she needed money to leave the community, which is often true in... We can only know her perspective. She felt oppressed. She felt she had no control over her life. We don't know the rest of the community but given from her perspective, that's how she felt. She knew money was going to be her answer to freedom and that was one of the things that attracted to me to the show. The ability to be able to support yourself. And she talks about that a lot in her family. That she wants her family to be able to be able to support each of themselves, even though it's very clear that right now, she's really the one supporting this entire huge operation. There's a lot of designer brands out there and I thought that was a very mixed message.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now, I did kind of come to the conclusion and I'm making this up. I don't know if it's true. My gut feeling is these brands give her the clothing for free, because every single person in her family and in the show is decked out at all times and usually with their labels showing. And I'm wondering if that's because the clothing is given to her? Maybe coming from the magazine world, you have some insight into that, because I do feel like it was a mixed message. You had a lot of women empowerment messages, but then it was almost like they were so weighed down in consumerism. They go to Paris and all they're talking about is shopping, shopping, shopping and I was a little bit uncomfortable with that message.
Jessica Goodman:
Yeah. I mean, I wish I had more insight into how she got the clothes for my magazine world, but I have no idea. I mean, there are always sponsorships and partnerships and I wouldn't be surprised if she negotiated some free clothes or rentals or something like that. But yeah, I mean the consumerism and the capitalism on display in the show is over the top, but I think that's pretty true of any glam fashion-y reality show. That's a part of the reason why people watch. I'm a huge Real Housewives fan and obviously I want to watch and see what Kyle Richards is wearing because it's always really fun. Okay, one thing that you said really struck me that I can't stop thinking about is there does seem to be a gap in how she got to where she is now. So-
Bobbi Rebell:
Had you heard of her before this?
Jessica Goodman:
No.
Bobbi Rebell:
No. Exactly! No.
Jessica Goodman:
I've been googling around and trying to find some information on her and basically her "origin story" seems to be that while she was living in what she felt to be an oppressed community, she knew she wanted to get out and she started selling life insurance to the people in her community without her husband knowing.
Bobbi Rebell:
How does that really happen? First of all.
Jessica Goodman:
I don't know.
Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, I love it. I support her. I think that's amazing. That's wonderful and innovative and brave, but anyway, go on.
Jessica Goodman:
Yeah. So that's how she said she got her nest egg to leave the community. Once she left the community, she says that she started a high heel company, which sounds great. Very cool. She was always into fashion and this is how she did it. How she wanted to become a business woman in that world. And I read an interview with her that was like, "How did you get financing?" And she said that she just kind of met people. She met someone in a doctor's office. She met someone on a flight to Hong Kong and they became her investors... And I just would love a little bit more information about how. Where Julia Haart came from and how was she was able to do this. It's obviously an incredible story and I just want more information about it.
Jessica Goodman:
Because then, once she had the shoe line, she sold it to La Perla and became the creative director there. She designed the thong outfit that Kendall Jenner wore to the Met Gala. That's a huge deal! She's very clearly good and successful. I just need some more information and I feel like... I just feel like she's not giving us the whole story on this show. Which is obvious because she's the one who produced it, like I said. But yeah, I mean this message of being able to start a business from nothing is incredibly powerful and important. I feel like with all of these... We hear about this kind of thing. This is the pull at your heartstrings story of I had nothing, now I own the world. I think what's really important about these stories when you're sharing them with young women is giving all the facts and making them really transparent so people can find ways to actually emulate that and do that for themselves. If you're watching this show looking for tips on how to start your own business, I don't think you're going to feel very equipped to do so after watching it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have any favorite quotes from the show?
Jessica Goodman:
Okay, yes. I spoke about her daughter. Her second daughter, Miriam who... She's the one who goes to Stanford and she's building her own apps and she comes out as bisexual in the show and she's very cool and very free. And her mom says she's the reason for why they decided to leave the community really and she says, "People say think outside the box, but I don't even think the box exists." I just feel like she's such a cool mouthpiece for the younger generation on this show and that's just like a great little quote here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I think she's awesome. So one of my favorite quotes was Julia. Julia Haart, our protagonist here saying, "I want you to never rely on anyone ever, not even me." And I didn't write down who she said that to, but I think that's really important as a-
Jessica Goodman:
Batsheva. She said it to Batsheva.
Bobbi Rebell:
To Batsheva. See, you are like a super fan of this show. Because, she does have... They're all her employees. Her children all do work for her and she's saying it's important that you establish yourself and that you are earning your money, whether you work for me or someone else and not be dependent on me as a parent. And that obviously is the sweet spot for me, writing my book about how to help our children be independent of us in a loving way and so that really hit home with me. Okay. Last little question about the show and then we're going to wrap up. Who's your favorite character and why?
Jessica Goodman:
I have two favorite character, "characters". Batsheva, just because I think she's the one who's challenging her family the most and who is challenging her mom and I found myself agreeing with her in a lot of situations. Like when Julia invites a woman from her Orthodox community to come to the city for a day of make-over and wisdom, Batsheva was right on the money when she was like, "Maybe this isn't a good idea." And the whole thing felt really exploitative to me and I feel like it did to Batsheva as well. And also Robert! Julia's best friend/employees/person who basically it seems to helm the ship at Elite. I loved him and I'm glad that they haven't really reduced him to just fun, gay sidekick character. They're giving him real storylines as well and I just think he's just a great, fun character on the show.
Bobbi Rebell:
So I also had a tie and I agree with you. Robert was one of my favorites and even though he does seem to come out of reality TV central casting, he's also so good. I mean, he's amazing. I would be curious if he was in this role before the show, because he's just that good. He's so perfect that it's like, whoa. But look, they do say they've been working together forever and he does fit her personality as someone that would be her right-hand man, literally. So I mean-
Jessica Goodman:
Well, I did a little LinkedIn stalking and it seems like he worked with her before.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, good. And the other person that really grew on me and he seems like a minor character, it's Batsheva's husband, Ben. I just want to hug this man through the TV because he married into a certain idea of what his life was going to be. He's not her biological child that was sort of dragged out, which all of them were... Sort of voluntarily because she seems to be on good relations with her ex-husband which is also interesting. But okay. But he is just, he married this woman and then suddenly he's thrust into this whole different life and he is not set up for it. The kid is not ready for this. The first episode, they just say he's in real estate and then it comes out later the only house, the only apartment he's sold is theirs.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it was kind of not a nice dig for Julia to make. I thought that was wrong, because she did this to him. He is... I don't want to say he's a victim because he's not portrayed as a victim in any way and he seems like a fantastic person and he's really trying so hard to adjust to things that have happened to him. He's trying to find his way and be a good husband. He was told that he should have kids the earliest possible and now he's got a wife that wants to wear pants and not have a baby till she's 30. So he's really rolling with the punches and I just think he's amazing. So yay, Ben.
Jessica Goodman:
Yeah. I could do a spin off of the two of them for sure.
Bobbi Rebell:
There might be a spinoff. I would not be surprised. Right?
Jessica Goodman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Final thoughts on the show.
Jessica Goodman:
So I still have a couple of episodes left and I'm really excited to keep going and just kind of finish it up. But I would also... If you're interested in the show and you're listening to this, I would recommend there's a great piece on Glamor. Glamour.com, about the kind of contradictions within the show and the backlash to it and explaining a lot of that stuff and I recommend that piece because it helped me think about it in a more critical way. But yeah, I... God, you know what? I'm probably going to read this woman's book too. So, yeah. I'm just interested. I'm just interested.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I think it's so highly watchable and I also... For all the flaws that we talked about, I would say overall it's still a winner. I mean at a five stars, I'd still give it four and three quarter stars because while there are these inconsistencies, we don't know what was edited out. We don't know. I thought about if there's even legal things that happen behind the scenes in terms of what she can and cannot say, and it is glossy. It is definitely highly produced. But then again, it works for the show and I totally enjoyed it and I wish this whole group of people all the best success because they are risk-takers even by doing this show, even though they had control over it. And the book, I kind of hope it's not too much of a tell all. I hope that she doesn't reveal too much of her life in the name of building her persona because some things it's okay to keep private, Julia Haart. Even though we're big fans.
Jessica Goodman:
And I just want to shout out Batsheva's TikTok because I'm not even really a big fashion TikTok person and I found myself wasting a lot of time going through her very cute fashion TikToks with Ben. So highly recommend. They do-
Bobbi Rebell:
I haven't looked at it yet but I'm afraid to because it'll just... I'll never write my book.
Jessica Goodman:
No. It's a great procrastination tool.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We're going to check it out as soon as my deadline passes in a month or so. Okay. Let's just talk quickly about They'll Never Catch Us.
Jessica Goodman:
Oh, yeah. So this is my new book, They'll never catch us. It is out July 27th. The date this episode drops, which is so exciting. And it is a young adult thriller about two sisters who are hyper competitive on a cross-country team in a small town in the Catskills, that is very dark and ominous and has a history of cold cases where young female runners go missing and they've never found the killer. And so the sister, the Steckler sisters, they are competing for the number one spot on their cross country team because their family can only afford to send one of them to college and the other one needs to get a scholarship. Their whole lives are wrapped up in cross country and everything changes when a new girl comes to town threatens to be better than both of them and take away the scholarship that one of them might get.
Jessica Goodman:
And when the new girl disappears, everyone starts to think that the Steckler sisters has something to do with her disappearance and they become the main suspects in the case. So it's a fun murder mystery that is about strength and desire and the power of teenage girls, which is what I love to write about. That's my sweet spot. And I think all my books also have a lot of themes about class distinctions, specifically within small communities and how power and money can kind of affect the way that young people think about the world and what their priorities are. So I'm excited. I'm excited for it to come out.
Bobbi Rebell:
It's coming out today. We can't wait to read it.
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Full Transcript:
Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you guys are all celebrating some big adulting milestones this season. And you know what? Finding the perfect gift for those celebrations can be kind of tough. I have the solution over at grownupgear.com. We have adorable hats, totes, mugs, pillows, tees, and seriously, the most cozy and comfortable sweatshirts. They're all on grownupgear.com and all at affordable prices. We even now have digital gift certificates. If you can't decide, use code GROWNUP for 15% off your first order. Buying from our small business helps to support this free podcast and you know what? We really appreciate it. Thanks guys.
Jessica Goodman:
I can't stop talking about it. I've been texting with lots of friends about it. I can't stop watching. It's fascinating. And I can't stop searching for them on Twitter and Instagram and just figuring out what they're up to.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Money Tips for Financial Grownups with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? When it comes to money being a grownup is hard, but together we've got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome my friends, to a new episode of our 2021 Financial Grownups Summer Watch Party series. During COVID, well I probably should have read more, but I actually did a lot of streaming, show watching and I became a little bit obsessed with the fact that there are a lot of shows out there that talk about money. Many of them totally undiscovered, and they have pretty good money lessons. So we're going to have a summer watch party highlighting some of my personal favorites and some new buzzworthy shows and of course the money tips that we learned from them. I am so excited to have my friend Jessica Goodman here with me for this episode. She is the author of two... Not one, but two best-selling books. They Wish They Were Us and the newly released... Actually it's coming out the day this episode drops, I believe. They'll Never Catch Us. Her books? So successful that she is no longer employed by Cosmos magazine as an editor where she spent many, many years. Hi Jessica.
Jessica Goodman:
Hi. I'm so happy to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, so I also left out... Give us an update on the books because in addition to They'll Never Catch Us, which I'm holding up here even though no one can see it. But I'll hold it up just so you get the feeling of me holding it up. Your first book had all kinds of Hollywood stuff happening. Give us an update on that.
Jessica Goodman:
Yeah, absolutely. So my first book, They Wish They Were Us is a prep school murder mystery set in an exclusive school in Long Island. And yeah, it was optioned for TV, starring Sydney Sweeney and Halsey and it's with HBO Max in development right now. So we're hoping it gets made and seeing what's up, but it's been really fun to kind of see that process move along.
Bobbi Rebell:
So glam. Perfect for the show we're going to be talking about. We're going to get to They'll Never Catch Us after we talk about this week's must watch show. This is a new one. So this technically was not watched while I was under quarantine, but it was coming out and getting so much buzz that I decided to throw it in the mix. It is called My Unorthodox Life. I feel like this is almost the new Kardashian show. In that you've got all of these characters, they're this big family and they're sort of... I don't know if this is Kardashian-like or not, but they're super glam and they're sort of a fish out of water story. I don't know. Would you characterize it like that? What do you see? Tell us more about the premise.
Jessica Goodman:
Yeah, so the premise is that there's this woman named Julia Haart and she's in her forties and she's the CEO of Elite World Group, which is a modeling conglomerate. She's launching a fashion line. She's this very glamorous, seemingly free kind of woman. She's married to an Italian man who used to be her... She used to work with at La Perla. She has four kids, kind of teenagers and young adults. And the show kind of frames this as, this is this crazy kind of New York city family, but twist... She used to be Orthodox Jewish and live in a community in upstate New York called Monsey, which is known for being very insular and having lots of different groups and communities and sects of Orthodox Judaism living there.
Jessica Goodman:
I have some thoughts on the problematic framing of this narrative. That the fact that they kind of frame it as a twist is a little bit othering in a lot of ways, but her whole thing is that she's not a part of this community anymore. And her kids are involved with the community to varying degrees. Her youngest son is... I think he's either in late middle school or early high school, and he still lives up there with his father and is very much a part of the community. And her other kids have varying levels of faith in Judaism.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm kind of amazed that they all agreed to so enthusiastically be part of this show, but they really... I almost feel like they're prepped for it and they're ready and roaring to go, which seems a little jarring. I don't know. And the clothing. I mean, I don't even know where to begin with the styling and the wardrobe on this. I mean, it's over the top. I guess that's part of why I had this Kardashian feeling and I have not been a loyal viewer of the Kardashians. I've kind of watched a few episodes over the years so I'm not really necessarily qualified to say that. But it's pretty flashy.
Jessica Goodman:
Oh, totally. And I feel like that's definitely on purpose because she's framing herself as a fashion mogul and she came into the fashion world having no experience in it and knowing nothing about it and yeah. The fashion and the glam and all of that really is such a part of the show. And also obviously I've been doing deep dive stalking of everybody who's on the show and her oldest daughter Batsheva, who's 27 or something. She's a full fledged fashion influencer. Has a million followers on TikToK. She was doing that before the show launched. So clearly, this is a family where fashion is a big part of it.
Bobbi Rebell:
And the show is a very deliberate and polished show. There's nothing accidental in this show. It is structured. So give me your take. I mean, I find this fascinating. I didn't binge all of it yet only because I've been blocked by other true obligations, but I'll probably finish the rest right after we're done taping this because it's so fascinating. What's your general takeaway from this? Just to begin with.
Jessica Goodman:
Yeah, totally. I mean, you told me we were going to talk about this show and I had heard about it a little bit and I was like, oh, I'll watch an episode and see what happens. Fast forward four hours, I'd watched basically the whole thing. I couldn't take my eyes away from it. I think it's extremely compelling television. But yeah, the whole thing is super contrived. It's very clearly... They decide what the storylines are going to be. There's nothing real about it. It's very much like The Hills in that way. Fake reality. And Julia is an executive producer on the show, just like the Kardashians are executive producers on their show. So you're getting the lifestyle and the perspective that she wants you to see and I think you have to really take that into consideration when you're viewing the show.
Jessica Goodman:
I grew up and I'm still a reformed Jewish person and I think what's most interesting to me is seeing the different levels of Judaism portrayed on the show. One of the daughters is basically... I don't know if she considers herself secular, but she is 20 years old and she eats treyf, like oysters and all those kind of stuff. And her older sister is still Orthodox and has a very contrived storyline with her husband about whether or not she's going to be wearing pants, when she's also wearing an off the shoulder shirt. The whole thing is kind of fake, but I'm interested in seeing these conversations play out within the family and how they accept one another's different parts of religion.
Jessica Goodman:
I think there are some really problematic moments in the show too. There's been a real big backlash against her from women in the Orthodox community who say that she portrays them... That Julia says that Orthodox women don't have free will. And a lot of Orthodox women are coming out and saying that's not true. We do have free will and this is how, and this is why. I'm not part of that community so I can't really speculate or comment on that. It's really interesting to watch it play out and to see what she... How she has reinvented herself. No matter what you think of her or the show, this woman reinvented herself.
Jessica Goodman:
And some of her history, there seemed to be some gaps in it. I would really love a real deep dive fact check on what she's been up to since she left the community. But again, like I said, I can't stop talking about it. I've been texting with lots of friends about it. I can't stop watching. It's fascinating. And I can't stop searching for them on Twitter and Instagram and just figuring out what they're up to. Okay. So this is my big word vomit about the show, but that's what I think.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's all very valid. What drew me to the show, coming from my sort of perspective, was the money thing. And one of the things that I think is interesting is there is a missing link in how she sort of went... Because it hasn't been even a decade, I think, right? How did she go from having nothing? And they do make a point in the show that they don't... That the women certainly, and also the men to a large degree, are not educated in any formal way. We do have a storyline, for example-- this is a little bit of a spoiler-- that Batsheva's husband Ben, only has a high school education and therefore his career prospects are limited because that's all they do. They study Torah and they get a high school education and I presume the women have even less of an education.
Bobbi Rebell:
One thing I really admired, and again we don't get the full picture, is that she did find a way. She understood that she needed money to leave the community, which is often true in... We can only know her perspective. She felt oppressed. She felt she had no control over her life. We don't know the rest of the community but given from her perspective, that's how she felt. She knew money was going to be her answer to freedom and that was one of the things that attracted to me to the show. The ability to be able to support yourself. And she talks about that a lot in her family. That she wants her family to be able to be able to support each of themselves, even though it's very clear that right now, she's really the one supporting this entire huge operation. There's a lot of designer brands out there and I thought that was a very mixed message.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now, I did kind of come to the conclusion and I'm making this up. I don't know if it's true. My gut feeling is these brands give her the clothing for free, because every single person in her family and in the show is decked out at all times and usually with their labels showing. And I'm wondering if that's because the clothing is given to her? Maybe coming from the magazine world, you have some insight into that, because I do feel like it was a mixed message. You had a lot of women empowerment messages, but then it was almost like they were so weighed down in consumerism. They go to Paris and all they're talking about is shopping, shopping, shopping and I was a little bit uncomfortable with that message.
Jessica Goodman:
Yeah. I mean, I wish I had more insight into how she got the clothes for my magazine world, but I have no idea. I mean, there are always sponsorships and partnerships and I wouldn't be surprised if she negotiated some free clothes or rentals or something like that. But yeah, I mean the consumerism and the capitalism on display in the show is over the top, but I think that's pretty true of any glam fashion-y reality show. That's a part of the reason why people watch. I'm a huge Real Housewives fan and obviously I want to watch and see what Kyle Richards is wearing because it's always really fun. Okay, one thing that you said really struck me that I can't stop thinking about is there does seem to be a gap in how she got to where she is now. So-
Bobbi Rebell:
Had you heard of her before this?
Jessica Goodman:
No.
Bobbi Rebell:
No. Exactly! No.
Jessica Goodman:
I've been googling around and trying to find some information on her and basically her "origin story" seems to be that while she was living in what she felt to be an oppressed community, she knew she wanted to get out and she started selling life insurance to the people in her community without her husband knowing.
Bobbi Rebell:
How does that really happen? First of all.
Jessica Goodman:
I don't know.
Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, I love it. I support her. I think that's amazing. That's wonderful and innovative and brave, but anyway, go on.
Jessica Goodman:
Yeah. So that's how she said she got her nest egg to leave the community. Once she left the community, she says that she started a high heel company, which sounds great. Very cool. She was always into fashion and this is how she did it. How she wanted to become a business woman in that world. And I read an interview with her that was like, "How did you get financing?" And she said that she just kind of met people. She met someone in a doctor's office. She met someone on a flight to Hong Kong and they became her investors... And I just would love a little bit more information about how. Where Julia Haart came from and how was she was able to do this. It's obviously an incredible story and I just want more information about it.
Jessica Goodman:
Because then, once she had the shoe line, she sold it to La Perla and became the creative director there. She designed the thong outfit that Kendall Jenner wore to the Met Gala. That's a huge deal! She's very clearly good and successful. I just need some more information and I feel like... I just feel like she's not giving us the whole story on this show. Which is obvious because she's the one who produced it, like I said. But yeah, I mean this message of being able to start a business from nothing is incredibly powerful and important. I feel like with all of these... We hear about this kind of thing. This is the pull at your heartstrings story of I had nothing, now I own the world. I think what's really important about these stories when you're sharing them with young women is giving all the facts and making them really transparent so people can find ways to actually emulate that and do that for themselves. If you're watching this show looking for tips on how to start your own business, I don't think you're going to feel very equipped to do so after watching it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have any favorite quotes from the show?
Jessica Goodman:
Okay, yes. I spoke about her daughter. Her second daughter, Miriam who... She's the one who goes to Stanford and she's building her own apps and she comes out as bisexual in the show and she's very cool and very free. And her mom says she's the reason for why they decided to leave the community really and she says, "People say think outside the box, but I don't even think the box exists." I just feel like she's such a cool mouthpiece for the younger generation on this show and that's just like a great little quote here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I think she's awesome. So one of my favorite quotes was Julia. Julia Haart, our protagonist here saying, "I want you to never rely on anyone ever, not even me." And I didn't write down who she said that to, but I think that's really important as a-
Jessica Goodman:
Batsheva. She said it to Batsheva.
Bobbi Rebell:
To Batsheva. See, you are like a super fan of this show. Because, she does have... They're all her employees. Her children all do work for her and she's saying it's important that you establish yourself and that you are earning your money, whether you work for me or someone else and not be dependent on me as a parent. And that obviously is the sweet spot for me, writing my book about how to help our children be independent of us in a loving way and so that really hit home with me. Okay. Last little question about the show and then we're going to wrap up. Who's your favorite character and why?
Jessica Goodman:
I have two favorite character, "characters". Batsheva, just because I think she's the one who's challenging her family the most and who is challenging her mom and I found myself agreeing with her in a lot of situations. Like when Julia invites a woman from her Orthodox community to come to the city for a day of make-over and wisdom, Batsheva was right on the money when she was like, "Maybe this isn't a good idea." And the whole thing felt really exploitative to me and I feel like it did to Batsheva as well. And also Robert! Julia's best friend/employees/person who basically it seems to helm the ship at Elite. I loved him and I'm glad that they haven't really reduced him to just fun, gay sidekick character. They're giving him real storylines as well and I just think he's just a great, fun character on the show.
Bobbi Rebell:
So I also had a tie and I agree with you. Robert was one of my favorites and even though he does seem to come out of reality TV central casting, he's also so good. I mean, he's amazing. I would be curious if he was in this role before the show, because he's just that good. He's so perfect that it's like, whoa. But look, they do say they've been working together forever and he does fit her personality as someone that would be her right-hand man, literally. So I mean-
Jessica Goodman:
Well, I did a little LinkedIn stalking and it seems like he worked with her before.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, good. And the other person that really grew on me and he seems like a minor character, it's Batsheva's husband, Ben. I just want to hug this man through the TV because he married into a certain idea of what his life was going to be. He's not her biological child that was sort of dragged out, which all of them were... Sort of voluntarily because she seems to be on good relations with her ex-husband which is also interesting. But okay. But he is just, he married this woman and then suddenly he's thrust into this whole different life and he is not set up for it. The kid is not ready for this. The first episode, they just say he's in real estate and then it comes out later the only house, the only apartment he's sold is theirs.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it was kind of not a nice dig for Julia to make. I thought that was wrong, because she did this to him. He is... I don't want to say he's a victim because he's not portrayed as a victim in any way and he seems like a fantastic person and he's really trying so hard to adjust to things that have happened to him. He's trying to find his way and be a good husband. He was told that he should have kids the earliest possible and now he's got a wife that wants to wear pants and not have a baby till she's 30. So he's really rolling with the punches and I just think he's amazing. So yay, Ben.
Jessica Goodman:
Yeah. I could do a spin off of the two of them for sure.
Bobbi Rebell:
There might be a spinoff. I would not be surprised. Right?
Jessica Goodman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Final thoughts on the show.
Jessica Goodman:
So I still have a couple of episodes left and I'm really excited to keep going and just kind of finish it up. But I would also... If you're interested in the show and you're listening to this, I would recommend there's a great piece on Glamor. Glamour.com, about the kind of contradictions within the show and the backlash to it and explaining a lot of that stuff and I recommend that piece because it helped me think about it in a more critical way. But yeah, I... God, you know what? I'm probably going to read this woman's book too. So, yeah. I'm just interested. I'm just interested.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. I think it's so highly watchable and I also... For all the flaws that we talked about, I would say overall it's still a winner. I mean at a five stars, I'd still give it four and three quarter stars because while there are these inconsistencies, we don't know what was edited out. We don't know. I thought about if there's even legal things that happen behind the scenes in terms of what she can and cannot say, and it is glossy. It is definitely highly produced. But then again, it works for the show and I totally enjoyed it and I wish this whole group of people all the best success because they are risk-takers even by doing this show, even though they had control over it. And the book, I kind of hope it's not too much of a tell all. I hope that she doesn't reveal too much of her life in the name of building her persona because some things it's okay to keep private, Julia Haart. Even though we're big fans.
Jessica Goodman:
And I just want to shout out Batsheva's TikTok because I'm not even really a big fashion TikTok person and I found myself wasting a lot of time going through her very cute fashion TikToks with Ben. So highly recommend. They do-
Bobbi Rebell:
I haven't looked at it yet but I'm afraid to because it'll just... I'll never write my book.
Jessica Goodman:
No. It's a great procrastination tool.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We're going to check it out as soon as my deadline passes in a month or so. Okay. Let's just talk quickly about They'll Never Catch Us.
Jessica Goodman:
Oh, yeah. So this is my new book, They'll never catch us. It is out July 27th. The date this episode drops, which is so exciting. And it is a young adult thriller about two sisters who are hyper competitive on a cross-country team in a small town in the Catskills, that is very dark and ominous and has a history of cold cases where young female runners go missing and they've never found the killer. And so the sister, the Steckler sisters, they are competing for the number one spot on their cross country team because their family can only afford to send one of them to college and the other one needs to get a scholarship. Their whole lives are wrapped up in cross country and everything changes when a new girl comes to town threatens to be better than both of them and take away the scholarship that one of them might get.
Jessica Goodman:
And when the new girl disappears, everyone starts to think that the Steckler sisters has something to do with her disappearance and they become the main suspects in the case. So it's a fun murder mystery that is about strength and desire and the power of teenage girls, which is what I love to write about. That's my sweet spot. And I think all my books also have a lot of themes about class distinctions, specifically within small communities and how power and money can kind of affect the way that young people think about the world and what their priorities are. So I'm excited. I'm excited for it to come out.
Bobbi Rebell:
It's coming out today. We can't wait to read it... Another distraction. I love you Batsheva, but I'm going to read this before I check out your TikTok because I know that TikTok's going to be dangerous for me. Always so good to have you on. Where can people follow you on all the socials?
Jessica Goodman:
You can follow me on Instagram, @jessicagoodman and Twitter, @jessgood. And my website is goodmanjessica.com. So find me in any one of those places and thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much for being on. Everyone, please make sure you are following the podcast on whatever platform you've listened to. That's new words because apparently subscriptions have a whole new meaning and this podcast is free for you. So come back next week, we're going to continue our Summer Watch series with another money show next week. See you then. Bye guys.
Bobbi Rebell:
Money Tips for Financial Grownups is a production of BRK Media, LLC. Editing and production by [Steve Stewart 00:22:33]. Guest coordination, content creation, social media support and show notes by [Ashley Wall 00:22:39]. You can find the podcast show notes, which includes links to resources mentioned in the show as well as show transcripts by going to my website, bobbirebell.com. You can also find an incredible library of hundreds of previous episodes to help you on your journey as a financial grownup. The podcast and tons of complimentary resources associated with the podcast is brought to you for free, but I need to have your support in return. Here's how you can do that. First, connect with me on social media. @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and bobbirebell on both Twitter and on Clubhouse, where you can join my Money Tips for Grownups club. Second, share this podcast on social media and tag me so I can thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
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