Speaker 1:
An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City.
In Kristin’s money story you will learn:
-How she made her first art sale while working in advertising
-The hashtags she used to attract a buyer to her work
-The price of the first piece of art she sold
-Why so much of Kristin’s work is tied to money and consumerism
-Her take on millennials attitudes about money and materialism
-Kristin’s background and how it led her to her career as an artist
-How the art world works when artists use galleries, versus when they self-promote on social media
-How you can buy art that is affordable
In Kristin’s money lesson you will learn:
-Her advice on how to follow your dreams, and still pay your bills
-Ways to use social media to leverage your skills and the content you create
-Pricing strategies for art
In Kristin’s money tip you will learn:
-How having the right basic ingredients at home will help you make more meals at home, and save money
-Kristin’s favorite 5 foods to have on hand
-Where Kristin goes for her recipes
In My Take you will learn:
-How to buy art as an investment
-When to use a gallery and when to seek out an artist directly
-How to use social media to research and find art to buy
-Why insurance needs should always be considered when you buy art
You will also learn how you can win a promotional video, like the ones for financial grownup for your own business- or just for yourself.
EPISODE LINKS
Kristin Simmons website: https://www.kristinsimmonsart.com/
The name of the arts gala she is performing at on June 7th is ChaShaMa: https://www.chashama.org/event/gala2018
This summer Kristin’s art can be seen at Galerie Mourlot (https://mourloteditions.com/) as part of the Hamptons art fair (http://artmarkethamptons.com/) in early July.
Research and buy art on some of Kristin’s favorite sites:
Mourlot editions
Wide Walls
Art Space
Paddle8.com
Also mentioned: RealSimple.com
Follow Kristin!
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/kristinsimmonsart/?hl=en
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/kristinsimmonsart/?ref=bookmarks
Twitter https://twitter.com/Kristins_Art
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristin-simmons-07596031/
An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn which hashtags to use to attract buyers on instagram and how you can follow your dreams while still paying the bills. #MoneyTips #Hashtags #Instagram #AttractBuyers
An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn which hashtags to use to attract buyers on instagram and how you can follow your dreams while still paying the bills. #MoneyTips #Hashtags #Instagram #AttractBuyers
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
... simpler for financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.
Kristin Simmons:
I do these pieces of old stock certificates, which is ironic because it's basically dead money, and I started drawing these Mad Men characters on them with these Lichtensteinesque bubbles and stock quotes coming out of their heads, and I posted one on Instagram, and I hashtagged the name of a company, and someone reached out to me and said, "Hey, my dad used to own that company. Can I buy that piece of art from you?"
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone, before I tell you about this week's guest, I want to let you know I have a big announcement coming up after the interview, and it has to do with something that you're all asking me about, the video promos that we put out with each episode, and how you can get them for you or your business, so stay tuned for that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest. You heard her talking about her first sale. Want to know how much that first piece of art sold for? Well, stay with us here. The number surprised me. Artist Kristin Simmons incorporates themes of money and consumerism into her work in thought provoking and frankly sometimes polarizing ways, but she doesn't moralize. She's won a number of awards, including the National Endowment of the Arts award. Kristin grew up in New York, and her work has been informed by the city's culture, which can be a bit over the top when it comes to money here in New York City. She actually started her postcard career working in advertising doing art as her side hustle. She was able to have a studio area in her apartment, in part because of her early decision to buy an apartment at the age of 23. Being realistic, she did not see it as something that she could do for a living, especially in New York, that is, being a full-time artist. That is, until her Instagram feed prompted her very first sale. Here is artist Kristin Simmons.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kristin Simmons. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Kristin Simmons:
Thanks very much, Bobbi. I'm so happy to be here today and talk with you.
Bobbi Rebell:
I recruited you because you are a rising star artist, and you focus so much on money and finance related iconography and themes, a little bit polarizing sometimes. Tell us briefly about your art.
Kristin Simmons:
Definitely. So, my art is very much focused on consumerism and the idea of what money can do for us, both its privileges and its dangers that it has.
Bobbi Rebell:
What inspired you? Can you tell us a little bit more about it?
Kristin Simmons:
My art is really inspired by the time I grew up in the late 80s, early 90s, when Reaganomics was really in full swing, and the market was booming, and I think a lot of millennials have certain mindsets or proclivities about spending and money because of how we were raised from a subconscious age.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you were raised to be very aware of money. Tell us your money story.
Kristin Simmons:
Sure. I do these pieces of old stock certificates, which is ironic because it's basically dead money. These are stocks that people were issued pre-Quotron machine in the 60s and 70s, and I started drawing these Mad Men characters on them with these Lichtensteinesque bubbles and stock quotes coming out of their heads, and I posted one on Instagram, and I hashtagged the name of a company, and someone reached out to me and said, "Hey, my dad used to own that company. Can I buy that piece of art from you?"
Bobbi Rebell:
That's crazy.
Kristin Simmons:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
Can you tell us how much you sold that first piece for?
Kristin Simmons:
The first piece I sold for $750.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's nice.
Kristin Simmons:
Yeah, it's great, and it was a unique work, so now the work has escalated to a greater price, but my prints still go for around that. I'm a big believer in trying to make original art at a price where people who are saving can afford it and also can compound over time if an artist does well in their career, but it was an amazing moment, and it really spurred me to think, okay, how can I hedge my marketing experience and maybe I'm onto an idea here that other people are interested in.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's so interesting. How much of your art sales are tied to social media, as opposed to people discovering it, because I do know you do have showings in traditional art galleries.
Kristin Simmons:
At the beginning, they were almost all tied to social media. Now I'd probably say about 30 percent.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's so interesting. So, your Instagram and social media basically is disrupting, I mean, not just yours but Instagram in general and social media is disrupting the art world in a way that I don't it is being talked about that much. It's fascinating.
Kristin Simmons:
Yeah. And it has been for a while, and other websites, too, that are more run by artists or artist run galleries, where they don't take as big of a commission. It's still a very okay market, the art world, and I don't even profess to know that much about it. I learn more every day, but I also kind of find it interesting because of that aspect and because of it's so involving and there are no set rules quote-unquote.
Bobbi Rebell:
What would be the lesson for people, you got noticed simply by being proactive on social media, and being compelling. I mean, your Instagram is really good.
Kristin Simmons:
Thank you. I would say everyone has something to share. Everyone has a story to share or something that's unique or special about them, and don't be afraid to have that voice. Yeah, you may get criticized for it. There will always be people who don't like what you're saying or think that your work or your voice is crap, but that's just one of the evils of the web, so again, I would just say be confident, and just start creating content or posting things or looking into things that interest you and be vocal about that.
Bobbi Rebell:
And if you're approached about selling something, how do you even know where to begin with the pricing?
Kristin Simmons:
For sure, sure. So that's a question I get all the time, and there's a simple answer and a not simple answer. The simple answer is what's my time, my hourly rate into making something, what are the material costs, and what is the idea worth. That's kind of a simple formula, and how you figure out what an idea is worth is a little more complicated obviously. Pricing for artists is very much set by themselves. It's a market that they set based on what the value they think their work is. For me, it's slightly gone up over time because I've had option results, I've had museum shows, and yeah, I kind of started at, again, that formula of idea, time, plus materials, and now once you gain additional credentials, you are then advised by galleries to adjust the numbers accordingly.
Bobbi Rebell:
And, of course, the galleries take 50 percent. Have to remember that.
Kristin Simmons:
Exactly.
Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about the money tip that you have brought with you because it's something that so many of us can benefit from, and it has to do with saving money by cooking, and you talk about the five ingredients. What do we need? Help us, Kristin. Help us.
Kristin Simmons:
Oh, my God, definitely. I mean, cooking's a great way to save money, and since I work from home, I cook all the time. Five ingredients. There are a bunch of different combinations, but the ones I like are eggs, spinach, rice, avocado and olive oil.
Bobbi Rebell:
Why those, and what do you make with those?
Kristin Simmons:
So, they're full of anti-oxidants and omega threes, most of those ingredients, and what I typically make is, I'll make like a kimchi bowl, Korean style, with rice, and I'll put an egg on top of it, and then you just throw some vegetables in it and some olive oil. It's a really healthy meal. It's very low cost to buy those ingredients, and it keeps you full for most of the day and kind of keeps your brain working and your body feeling good.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you get the recipes? Do you have any websites you recommend?
Kristin Simmons:
Yeah, Real Simple has actually a great cookbook. I think theirs is like 30 ingredients or something under 30 dollars that you can buy. I sometimes get recipes, I sign up for the self.com newsletter, even though I don't read their magazine. They often have good recipes, but yeah, Real Simple is probably the first place I would look. I really like their recipes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. All right, let's talk more about your art, what inspires you, where you're going to be showing this summer, where people can see it, and all that good stuff.
Kristin Simmons:
Thanks so much, Bobbi, again for having me, and in terms of the summer and what I'm doing, I am going to be part of an art gala on June 7th in New York called [Shamacha 00:08:48]. I'm hoping I'm getting the name right, or the Shamana Gallery.
Bobbi Rebell:
We'll put a link in the show notes.
Kristin Simmons:
It's a benefit hosted by the Durst organization, who gives a lot of money to the arts every year, and I'm going to be kind of doing an interactive performance piece in an office [inaudible 00:09:03] space there, and that'll be the first time I'm doing interactive performance work, so I'm looking forward to that, and then I will also be showing at the Hampton's Art Fair, which is on July 5th, because the 4th falls on a Wednesday, so there's that long weekend that comes back. July 5th to the 8th, the summer with Gallery Mourlot. That's kind of one of the biggest galleries I show with. I'm going to be showing new work there, which I'm really excited about.
Bobbi Rebell:
And where can people find you on social? Especially your Insta, but everywhere.
Kristin Simmons:
Sure. So, it's my name. It's KristinSimmonsArt, so K-R-I-S-T-I-N. Not E-N. S-I-M-M-O-N-S-A-R-T. That's my Instagram, and that's my website, too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you so much.
Kristin Simmons:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. I love that Kristin advocates cooking at home. It's an easy and usually painless way to save money. It's also usually healthier, and she's right. Have five key ingredients at home. Yours might be different from hers, but that is definitely a way to save money. I want to focus on the idea though of buying art as an investment, or maybe just because you like it and want to own some art. So, Financial Grownup tip number one, Kristin pointed out kind of an open secret in the art world. Galleries take 50 percent. So, if an artist is selling work through a gallery, the gallery has costs and plays an important role, and they should get paid, so you got to take that into consideration if you go that route. However, as a buyer, if you know of an artist and you are interested in work that has not been seen at a gallery, you can go to the artist directly and have a lot more flexibility on the price.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to social media, that is easier than ever, and as Kristin mentioned, well, 750 bucks, which is what she got for her first sale is a lot of money for many people. It's also a realistic price point for many people looking to start an art collection. If you're interested in actual places to go to discover artists, I did reach out to Kristin after we taped, and she sent along a few resources. I'll put them in the show notes as well, but she mentions Morlot Editions, I hope I said that correctly, Wide Walls and Art Space for original art. She also says Paddle8 is a great resource where you can even sign up for a payment plan. Prices there range from as little as 75 dollars to 15,000 dollars for most contemporary work. So, 75 bucks, you could do that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. When you do buy art, depending on the value, make sure that you insure it. Art can often be insured just within your home owner's policy or your renter's insurance, but read that policy. You may need to add a floater as a supplement to the policy, and get the work appraised. It's also a good idea to make sure there are photographs of the art, so if something does happen, there are documents to support your claim.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, onto the big announcement. I'm really excited about this. As I said at the top of the show, I keep being asked video promos for the show. Where do I get them made? How can you get one? All that stuff. The secret is I actually make them myself. Even though I was primarily a television anchor and financial journalist in my previous ventures, previous career, I also learned a lot of skills that I now use for things like that. I love making the videos, and I have a lot of fun being creative, and sometimes a little bit silly. So, I've been asked how much I would charge to make them for people, and where someone can hire me, but the truth is I'm not getting into that business. They're not for sale. I've got a lot on my plate with Financial Grownup, and my speaking engagements, and brands that I work with, so that is not going to be my next side hustle, even though a lot of you guys have asked for it.
Bobbi Rebell:
But, I have decided to try an experiment. I am going to give one away to a listener, so here's all you have to do. Between now and let's say July, every time you see me post a video, a promo video on social media, share it, and I will choose the winner based on whoever shared the most videos between now and when I pick the first winner, which again, will be in July. [inaudible 00:13:09] I will make a custom video just for you, or one that you can use promoting your business. We'll work it out. It'll be a lot of fun. I'm really excited.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, all right, thank you all for supporting Financial Grownup, always. Please share this episode, and then the others that you enjoy with your friends on social media, and also, if you have not already, please subscribe so you don't miss any episodes, and this is the big ask. I know they don't make it easy, but it really helps the show get discovered if you rate and review the podcast.
Bobbi Rebell:
More listener involvement, we have just selected our first listener to be a guest. That episode will be coming up in June. I'm excited to share it with you guys. If you want to be considered for the next one, just email us at info@financialgrownup.com. Include the money story and the money tip that you would share if you were selected.
Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about Financial Grownup, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter at bobbirebell. On Instagram at bobbirebell1. On Facebook at Bobbi Rebell. Thanks to Kristin Simmons for inspiring us and showing us all that art can be a profitable side hustle and even your main job, and helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
New dad and financial advisor Kevin Matthews wanted to start teaching his baby about money even before his son was born- and almost missed his birth! But the video evidence of his dedication to the future financial health of his baby is a gift that is truly one of a kind.
In Kevin’s money story you will learn:
-Why he felt so compelled to shoot a video right before his son was born
-The strategy he wanted to share that would make his newborn child a millionaire
-The three specific things he will do to make sure his son is a millionaire
-Why he regrets taping the video
In Kevin’s money lesson you will learn:
-Why planning ahead or recording in advance would have been a better move in retrospect
-How he will alter his strategy with his next child!
In Kevin’s money tip you will learn:
-Why rebalancing a portfolio is essential
-How to tell if you need to rebalance your portfolio
-Exactly what to do if your portfolio is not balanced.
In my take you will learn:
-Why planning for the future sometimes has to take a back seat to focusing on the present
-How to time your financial check ups
Episode Links
Building Bread
Get Kevin’s book Starting Point: How to Create Wealth that Lasts
Watch Kevin’s video series Bread Crumbs
Follow Kevin
Twitter @buildingbread
Instagram @buildingbread
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/BuildingBread/
Email Kevin info@buildingbread.com
Also mentioned
Phroogal
Jason Vitug
The Financial Gym
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at TransferWise.com/Podcast, or download the app.
Kevin Matthews:
I would not do it the same way. That was a huge risk that I took, and I got lucky that I was able just to run back up, and everything was okay, and I was in the right spot, so I probably would not do it again.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with me, certified financial planner, Bobby Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grown Up. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in getting our financial plans together for the future that we miss something super important in the now. For financial advisor, Kevin Matthews II, who runs BuildingBread and is the author of Starting Point, How to Create Wealth That Lasts, making sure he created a video moments before his son was born seemed really important at the time, but looking back, maybe it could have waited. I'll let Kevin fill you in. Here is Kevin Matthews II. Hey, Kevin Matthews. You are a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.
Kevin Matthews:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
We met actually at an event for Phroogal, run by our mutual friend, Jason Vitug. I was so impressed with you, and I went and I ran after you, and said, "I need to rack you down. I need to have you on my podcast." Thank you so much for being here.
Kevin Matthews:
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Bobbi Rebell:
You gave a great presentation, and that's a lot of what you do. You're a financial advisor, but you also do a lot of speaking. You also have BuildingBread is your website, your company, and you are a two time author.
Kevin Matthews:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
We will talk about more about that. That's a little teaser, my friends. We're gonna talk more about Kevin's books and his business in just a few minutes, but first, I want to get to your story, because it has to do with your baby that was just born, your son. By the way, are you a first time father?
Kevin Matthews:
Yes. This is then first time.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations.
Kevin Matthews:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Share our story, because this is very special and very sweet.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Yeah. I do a segment that airs every week, so I do what's called BreadCrumbs, and I give out financial tidbits every Wednesday morning.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where is this, on YouTube, or where can people see it?
Kevin Matthews:
This is primarily on Facebook.
Bobbi Rebell:
On Facebook. Okay.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. I have it in Facebook for my group. It's also on Twitter and through my email list as well. Every week, I get on. We'll talk about what's in the news. I'll give you a few tips and continue that way. So, at the hospital, about two hours before my son was born ... It was Wednesday. I'm a dedicated person, so I was like, "Look. I need to do this, because once he's born, there's no way I'm gonna stay on schedule." So, I ran downstairs. I shot a video on compounding interest and a few tips we were gonna do for my son to make sure that he was gonna become a millionaire.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. You called it Three Things for Your Son to Become a Millionaire.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Three things we were gonna do to make sure my son was a millionaire. So, I went down. I was live in the lobby of the hospital, because I couldn't record in the room. I'm shooting, and I assume at this time my wife has maybe two, three, four hours perhaps before he's born.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no. Kevin, you're a first time father. Babies don't go on your schedule. First lesson.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. I learned. I shoot the video. It takes maybe 15, 20 minutes. I get back in the elevator, and the minute I walk in they say, "Okay. Push." I'm like, "Wait. This is it?"
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
You are so dedicated to your group that you almost missed the birth of your son.
Kevin Matthews:
Yes. I was so dedicated to his future that I almost missed the present. Yeah. I was able to do both. I definitely made it, but had I been maybe 20 minutes later, going down and recording, or had the video been longer or something, I definitely could have missed it. This was in the middle of that last winter snowstorm as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. So, we want everyone to go watch the actual video, but give us some highlights of the advice and the lessons for your newborn son to become a millionaire.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Yeah. It's really getting yourself in position to make sure that he's gonna be taken care of. There's the life insurance piece, and there's the piece that you want to make sure that you're updating all of your recorders, your beneficiaries, all of that, because sometimes when you have a kid, when you get married, when those life changes happen, you want to make sure that everything is in place to have everything updated, so that it reflects your current family situation, which again, is fluid. The second thing that we just did actually was open up an investment account for him and then begin saving for him now, so that when he's in his 30s, maybe even 40s, he will be much farther along than I was or anyone in my family actually.
Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of account was it? It doesn't sound like you're talking about a 529 for school if he's gonna get it in his 30s or 40s.
Kevin Matthews:
Correct. Right now, the first account we opened was a custodial account for him. We may do a 529 plan in the near future, but I started with a custodial account.
Bobbi Rebell:
Very good. The full video available on Facebook. What is the lesson from not just the lessons that you're giving your newborn son, but what is the lesson from this story, where you admitted you didn't really plan well, but you also were really dedicated to your business? So, would you do it again the same way?
Kevin Matthews:
The same way? No. I would not do it the same way. That was a huge risk that I took, and I got lucky that I was able just to run back up, and everything was okay, and I was in the right spot. I probably would not do it again. Definitely planning ahead would have been easier. Probably recording in advance would have been easier as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, but it did have that special live quality as well.
Kevin Matthews:
Yes. It did.
Bobbi Rebell:
It will always have that.
Kevin Matthews:
It worked for that one time, but to risk it twice may not be wise.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, for baby number two more scheduling.
Kevin Matthews:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
You learn and also the lesson is that babies don't keep to grown up time.
Kevin Matthews:
Absolutely.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your money tip. What should people do? This is great advice for anyone, not just parents.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Absolutely. Similar to the previous point, but it's being at the right spot at the right time. The way I look at that is making sure that you are properly balanced. Over the last few years, stocks have been great, and that kind of throws people out of whack. What we do is we tend to say, "Hey. Great. I'm just gonna roll with it. I'm making gains," but that's really the time that you want to go back and rebalance your portfolio, and you want to do it periodically. You want to keep those dates static versus checking in when it's a bad day on the market or just randomly when you're in the mood to.
Bobbi Rebell:
Specially, what does it mean to rebalance your portfolio? How does it suddenly get off balance?
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. It can get off balance when the market changes. For example, if you're someone who has a 50/50 portfolio, you can't to have 50% in stocks, 50% in bonds, if you're someone who's right in the middle, as stocks grow, your portfolio could be 65 or 70% versus 30% because of the growth of the market. You want to go back. That means that you're taking on more risk, so you may want to go back, look at your portfolio, and bring it back down to where it's 50/50, because that's where you should be based on your goals and your risk tolerance.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. All right. Kevin, I want to talk to you about your businesses, because you kind of have a bunch of different things going on, and you're writing books, and you're making videos. Tell us more about what you do.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. At BuildingBread my main goal is to help you set, simplify, and achieve your financial goals. I do that through basic financial education, so I do the videos. I do BreadCrumbs, and I teach courses to make sure that when you're speaking with your financial advisor, when you're trying to figure it out on your own, that you can understand the situation, have a well educated situation, so that you don't feel like people are talking over you or at you.
Bobbi Rebell:
I can speak firsthand. You're a wonderful speaker and presenter, and everyone was mesmerized by what you were saying. I think you got a lot of people to really pay attention to their money and be a lot more deliberate.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, where can people find you and get in touch if they want you to come to their organization or if they want to follow you on social media?
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. You can follow me anywhere on social media @BuildingBread. I'm always active there. You can also email me at Info@BuildingBread.com.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much, Kevin Matthews. This has been great.
Kevin Matthews:
Yes. Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Kevin had a lot of great advice. Financial Grown Up tip number one. We spend a lot of time in the personal finance space talking about planning for the future, but by no means should that divert your attention from the present, when things, like the birth of your child, are about to happen. Perspective. It is a great story to tell your kid, but take note. Kevin would not do it again. Let's try to look up from our phones more. I'm right there with you on that one. We may not even realize all the priceless thing we may be missing, and you can't buy more time.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up tip number two. Just like you schedule a doctor's appointment, let's all take Kevin's advice and do a financial check up based not on when something is happening in the market, for example, but on a calendar driven base, so the decisions are based on what is best for you in a proactive way, not a reactive way, or another good time may be when you have a change in circumstance, like having a baby. I don't really do this these days, but I'm gonna think about Kevin's advice and try to be on a more regular schedule with checking in with family, financial planning, and things like that. I think it's a great thing to incorporate in all of our lives.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Kevin, and thanks to all of you for supporting Financial Grown Up. I am starting to get a nice amount of applications for our upcoming once a month listener as guest episodes, so keep them coming. We're gonna have some great stories, and I can't wait to hear yours. Just email us at Info@FinancialGrownUp.com. Tell us the money story and the money tip that you would share if you were chosen.
Bobbi Rebell:
Please continue to share this show with your friends and colleagues to help bring more people into the Financial Grown Up community. Rate and review us on iTunes. That really helps us get noticed, and it is truly appreciated. Follow me on Twitter @BobbyRebell, on Instagram @BobbyRebell1, and you can find me on Facebook @BobbyRebell. Kevin truly brought som fatherly wisdom to our program. Great show, Kevin, and thanks for getting us all one step closer to being Financial Grown Ups. Financial Grown Up with Bobby Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
When Liz Thames and her husband adopted their dog Gracie they went on a spending bender buying up countless toys and treats for their new baby. But instead their precious pet taught them a lesson in values that helped shape the parents and family they became.
In Liz’s money story you will learn:
-The story of how Liz and her husband adopted their first pet, Gracie
-The costs involved in adopting a dog
-How much money they spent before getting the dog, and what they bought
-How Gracie reacted to all the toys and treats
In Liz’s money lesson you will learn:
-How to figure out what you really need to buy for your family
-How marketing can confuse us and create a false need
-The importance of waiting to find out what is truly needed during a life change, such as having a child
-How to fight back against a scarcity mindset
-Specific tips on how to be frugal like Liz, including using social media as a tool
In Liz’s money tip you will learn:
-How she was able to take yoga classes by bartering
-The specific language and approach if you want to barter with a business
In my take you will learn:
-Why you should consider selling your used baby products, especially big ticket items like strollers
-My personal story of selling my son’s stroller
-My take on pet insurance
Episode Links
Get Liz Thames Book Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living.
Learn more about Liz on her website Frugalwoods.com
Follow Liz!
Twitter @frugalwoods
Facebook Frugalwoods
Instagram Frugalwoods
Transcription
Bobbi:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message comes from Transfer Wise. The cheaper way to send money internationally. Transfer Wise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come up sending money abroad. Test it out for free at Transfer Wise.com slash podcast or download the app.
Liz:
We probably spent I don't know several hundred dollars on dog stuff which is more than we spent on either of our children by the way before they were born. So it was once she came into our lives we could then learn what she really needed and we could calibrate our purchases to her actual needs which apparently was a kitchen towel.
Bobbi:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, [inaudible 00:01:02] and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi:
Hey everyone. Pet lovers this is especially for you and if you're like me, your pets are like your children. There's nothing you wouldn't do for them. But there are things that you shouldn't do for them including overspending. Liz Thames is the author of Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living. And in fact many of her fans knew her only as Mrs. Frugalwoods until recently. But as you will learn Liz was not always as frugal as she is now. Here is Liz Thames, aka Mrs. Frugalwoods.
Bobbi:
Liz Thames aka Mrs. Frugalwoods, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Liz:
Thank you so much for having me.
Bobbi:
And congratulations are in order for your new book, Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living. Did I get that right?
Liz:
You did.
Bobbi:
Okay. All right. We're going to talk more about the book but I want to hear more about your life in Vermont and your money story which has to do with something near and dear to my heart which is of course our pets.
Liz:
Yes. A number of years ago my husband and I decided we were ready to adopt a dog. We had wanted a dog for years but we'd been renters and we had moved around a lot. I'd been in grad school. Not a good time to get a dog because when you get a dog, you need to think about who's going to care for them all day long. When you're moving around and you're renting an apartment and you're not home because you're in grad school and working full time in order to get free tuition. You don't really have the time to care for a pet. It was a big decision for us to finally come to that moment where we owned a home and we felt like we had the time and the money to dedicate to having a dog. We adopted a gray hound which is a rescue dog. It's a really frugal way to get a pet and it's also a wonderful way of giving a pet a new home.
Liz:
So, gray hounds are-
Bobbi:
By the way, there are some costs when you adopt a pet.
Liz:
Oh absolutely. Yes. There are ... It's like with children. There's just kind of the costs just keep on going but it's yes, so you do pay a fee when you adopt a dog. Then you need to think about their long term health care as well. One of the things that we thought when we first adopted our dog was that she needed everything. We had waited years to get this dog; we were going to lavish her with all of the wonderful dog things. We went to PetSmart and just cruised the aisles and bought you know "Oh we need this. We need this" like impulse shop for this dog and bought all these toys. All of these kongs. You know what those are? You put peanut butter in it.
Bobbi:
What's a kong?
Liz:
It's like this round thing that you put peanut butter or treats in and the dog-
Bobbi:
Are dogs supposed to eat peanut butter? I don't know.
Liz:
Purportedly they stick their snout in it and lick it out. I don't know. I have like four[crosstalk 00:04:04]
Bobbi:
Are they supposed to eat peanut butter? I don't know.
Liz:
I don't know. They told us she could.
Bobbi:
Okay.
Liz:
But our dog had zero use for all of this stuff. She looked at it and was like no thanks and took a red kitchen towel out of our kitchen and said, this is my toy and she decided that she really didn't need a lot in life and that was a great lesson for us. That we kind of had bought into this consumer notion that in order to be good dog parents, we needed to provide all of this stuff for her. When in reality all she needed was a safe, warm space and lots and lots of walks and play time outside. It was just so illuminating for us that uh wow, we really bought into this marketing trope of what it means to have a dog.
Bobbi:
It reminds me of when people buy all these toys for babies. Maybe toddlers let's say and then all the toddler wants to do is play in the box that the toys came in.
Liz:
Oh a 100 percent. Yes. My daughter the other day got in a box and was like, "It's a boat". "I'm sailing down the river". This is an empty cardboard box. Just like excellent. I am really glad you have that imagination and I'm really glad I didn't buy any toys for you.
Bobbi:
Totally. So how much do you think you spent on toys and unnecessary just stuff for your- what's your dog's name?
Liz:
Our dog was Gracie better known as frugal hound and she sadly passed away earlier this year.
Bobbi:
Oh. I'm so sorry.
Liz:
Thank you. But it's wonderful to talk about her and to realize sort of the important role that she had in our lives. She was our first child and she really taught us what we needed to know about parenting which is that you do not need to buy a ton of stuff. It's also true that we bought things preemptively before she was even part of our lives. We probably spent to your question I don't know several hundred dollars on dog stuff which is more than we spent on either of our children by the way before they were born. Once she came into our lives we could then learn what she really needed and we could calibrate our purchases to her actual needs which apparently was a kitchen towel.
Bobbi:
And it's interesting because you actually learned from Gracie how to not over prepare and buy in advance for your children, your human children, when they came along. In a way she taught you a good lesson in budget parenting.
Liz:
Really.
Bobbi:
So what is the lesson then for our listeners and how can this apply not just to pet owners but to everyone?
Liz:
We are surrounded almost every single day by messages that tell us we need more stuff. There is always something more to buy for whatever phase of life you're in. Whether you have pets or you have kids or you don't have either of those things but you have a great interest in hiking or rock climbing or whatever it might be. There will always be this huge list of things that we're told that we need. I think marketing really makes us feel as though we need to have those things in order to be happy and to be fulfilled to be able to do the things we want to do with our lives. What I've realized over the years is that there really is no way to buy happiness. There is no way to sort own everything that you need to own. As soon as you reach that point, you'll realize there's more stuff or you need newer stuff or bigger stuff.
Liz:
This applies to everything from houses and cars all the way down to the clothes that we wear and the food that we buy. I think when you can sort of step outside of that consumer carousel and really identify what it is that you actually need on a daily basis. You'll realize it's quite a bit less than we're told we need.
Bobbi:
You also it seems learned that you can wait. We live in such a culture of abundance here in the United States that had you waited to buy the dog toys and evaluated whether you need them, it's not like they wouldn't have been there. There's no fear that it won't be there if you don't buy in advance. The same thing applies to children and for ourselves. We don't necessarily need to stock up a head of time. We can almost like the stores now do with as needed inventory. We can almost act that way for ourselves.
Liz:
So true and I think we often have this scarcity mindset that we won't have an [inaudible 00:08:22] we won't be able to provide for kids or our pets or our families. When in reality, we probably have plenty and we probably can make do with what we already own. My other favorite thing to do is source things used. Used cars, used furniture, used stuff for my kids. You can save 50, 75 percent sometimes 90 percent off of what something would have originally cost just by getting it used. There are so many sources right now of used things. Craig's List of course everybody knows about. Buy nothing groups. Buy and sell groups on Facebook. Just talking with your neighbors and friends. Finding hand me downs. Of course finding fantastic things on the side of the road which I advise caution but really can be done to great effect.
Liz:
Essentially looking at ways to not buy new. This not only saves you money but is environmentally friendly. It takes away a lot of that paralysis by analysis that I get when I'm looking at Amazon and reading 500 reviews. Like, "I don't know which toddler sippy cup to buy". If you just get it used, you kind of remove all of that stress and time from your search.
Bobbi:
And for your money tip Liz you're going to help us all live healthier for less.
Liz:
Yes. It's often possible to exercise for free by bartering or trading with your exercise studio. When I lived in Cambridge outside of Boston, I volunteered at the front desk of my yoga studio in exchange for free yoga classes. This was something I didn't realize was possible until I tried to save as much as I could every month and realized I was spending tons and tons of money on yoga classes. I think it's easy for us to look at exercise and think, "Oh I'm happy to spend on that because it's a good thing". And it is a good thing but you can often do it for free and I've heard from readers who have accomplished this at Crossfit studios, Pilates, ballet just about any type of exercise that the studio is often looking for this opportunity to make a barter or a trade. I used to take out the trash, sweep the floors, work at the front desk. Free yoga.
Bobbi:
How much do you estimate you saved?
Liz:
Doing that it was thousands of dollars. It's another great example of how costs really compound over the course of a year. You might only be spending 50 dollars, a 100 dollars, 200 dollars a month on exercising but when you think about how much that is over the course of a year and how much that money could do for you if you instead invested it or used it in a wiser way. It really becomes pretty profound. When you start to apply this to every line item in your budget, then you really can start to see astronomical savings.
Bobbi:
How did you approach the yoga studio because a lot of people might say well that's great but that's kind of a weird conversation. To be a client there and just sort of say, "Oh can I take out the trash and go to yoga for free"? How did that actually happen?
Liz:
Fortunately for me they had a poster up that advertised this program and so I was able to just email the email address on the poster but I know that this type of work study program often exists in studios. You can just ask, "Do you have any type of work study program where I could volunteer in exchange for classes"? And if they say no nothing is lost. They've said no. If they say yes, fabulous. You've now got an opportunity to get free classes.
Bobbi:
All great. I love that idea. Tell us more about your book and where people can find you.
Liz:
The book is Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living and it is a memoir about the financial journey that essentially I've been on and that ultimately led me to living on a homestead in Vermont. You can find the book on Amazon, at Barnes and Noble, at any local bookstore anywhere that books are sold.
Bobbi:
And where can people find you? Social media, website all that good stuff?
Liz:
Sure. So it's all Frugalwoods across the board. My website is: Frugalwoods.com and you can find me on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook at Frugalwoods.
Bobbi:
Liz you are wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us.
Liz:
Oh thank you for having me.
Bobbi:
Okay everyone. Liz totally delivered in this episode especially with taking the lessons from buying habits with Gracie and then taking those lessons and applying them when she became a parent to humans. Financial grownup tip number one. Liz talked about buying used stuff for your kid. Don't forget to sell stuff. For example, we were gifted an incredible and very pricey stroller when my son was born. We kept it in good shape and when he outgrew it, we posted it in a Facebook group and we were able to sell it to a local person for more than half the original cost which was still several hundred dollars. It pays off. Financial grownup tip number two. A word about pets. They are expensive. While you can easily avoid luxury pet wardrobes if that's your thing, that's fine but you can avoid it. It's a choice.
Bobbi:
You cannot neglect their health. Make sure you have a very big budget for that. I can take my Morkie in for a checkup and a routine vaccine and walk out with a very large bill. I also want to talk about pet insurance. It is also very expensive and can be limited in its coverage. In many cases it is not something that makes financial sense if you do the math. My family decided to have it for our Morkie for one reason. We never wanted to make a health decision about her after consulting our bank account.
Bobbi:
Pet health care expenses when they do need care beyond the routine, can put owners in a very tough positions. You may be asked to pay let's say a 1000 dollars for a bunch of tests. How do you say no? Then the tests show the pet needs a procedure; another bill. Then therapy and so on. It adds up and our pets are priceless but our money is finite. At a certain point you could be put in the position of saying, "Is so many more months worth this many more dollars"? Well the answer is usually going to be yes because we're human and we love our pets. The reality is that decision could very easily derail other financial needs, obligations and plans.
Bobbi:
If you get a pet, research pet insurance and make an informed decision. It is expensive. Usually it's only affordable if you get it when your pet is young. It's worth being proactive early on.
Bobbi:
All right. If you have not heard yet, I am very excited about this. We are going to start having one guest a month. Be a listener. If you want to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and tell us what money story and what money tip you would share if you were chosen. If you have not already, please subscribe and help us spread the word by sharing on social media. I am at Bobbi Rebell at Twitter, on Instagram I am at Bobbi Rebell1 and go to BobbiRebell.com forward slash financial grownup podcast to learn more about the show and to sign up for mailing list so you can hear about things like how to be a guest on the show.
Bobbi:
I hope that you enjoyed Liz's story and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.
Kristin Wong laughs about it now but she literally cried and wanted to drown her sorrows at TGI Fridays when an unexpected tax bill hit her out of the blue. She fesses up to Bobbi that it never occurred to her that she would not get a refund. Ironically, her money tip is one for the budget conscious foodie in all of us.
In Kristin Wong’s money story you will learn:
-Why she did not pay her taxes when she started freelance writing
-How your tax responsibilities change when you switch from being an employee to being self-employed
-Why she owed money instead of getting her usual refund
-The benefits of having an emergency fund
-The emotional toll it took on Kristin
In Kristin’s money lesson you will learn:
-The big mistake Kristin made regarding money when she became a freelancer
-Ignorance is not bliss when it comes to taxes
-Kristin’s tips for managing major work changes
-How to find free resources online to manage and pay your taxes
-How to know when you need a professional for your taxes
In Kristin’s money tip you will learn:
-The high/low method for restaurant spending
-The most expensive/biggest splurge meal Kristin has had
In my take you will learn:
-What happens if you send in your tax returns without payment
-What to do if you do not have the money to pay your taxes on April 17th
-Strategies to use when you set up a payment plan with the IRS
-Why you should avoid paying your taxes with a credit card
Episode links
Pickup your copy of Kristin Wong’s new book Get Money
The book website is at: https://thegetmoneybook.com/
Get Kristin’s downloadable worksheets at https://thegetmoneybook.com/worksheets/
Kristin Wong’s website is https://www.thewildwong.com/
Follow Kristin!
Facebook- (and join her private facebook group): https://www.facebook.com/thewildwong/
Twitter @thewildwong
Instagram: @thewildwong
Pinterest thewildwong
YouTube The Wild Wong
Other links:
IRS.Gov
TurboTax.com
Vanguard.com
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/what-if-i-cant-pay-my-taxes
https://www.irs.gov/payments/direct-pay
Cary Carbonaro
Stefanie O’Connell
Holly Hanson
Get Rich Slowly
JD Roth
Transcription
Kristin Wong:
So, I just cried. My now husband, who was my boyfriend at the time and he was like trying to calm me down. He was like, it's going to be okay. I just remember like I wanted to go to TGIF Fridays.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of "How to be a Financial Grownup", and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you and make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, spoiler alert, our guest Kristin Wong author of "Get Money" was crying because of something that happened to her at tax time. And I thought this would be a great time to hear her story about the time she, oops, forgot to pay her taxes. So her book, as I mentioned is called, "Get Money. Live the Life You Want, Not Just the Life You Can Afford." It makes learning about money feel like a game, which she really could have used her own book at this time because it was not a fun time.
Bobbi Rebell:
You've probably read Kristin's work in the New York Times, New York Magazine, Glamour, Life Hacker. Kristin got her start as a money writer at the fantastic blog, "Get Rich Slowly." This is a story you need to hear, especially right now at tax time. Here is Kristin Wong.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kristin Wong. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the show.
Kristin Wong:
Thank you for having me on the show.
Bobbi Rebell:
I am loving your new book, "Get Money. Live the Life You Want, Not Just the Life You Can Afford." Full disclosure, I'm only about two thirds of the way through, but I will be finishing it very soon. Great job.
Kristin Wong:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
It's not easy to say something new in this space and you really did it.
Kristin Wong:
Yeah. And I've been writing about money for so long that it was kind of hard to say something new. So I really had to think about it for ... I had to take myself out of the money geek persona.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're not a geek. You're the cool money nerd.
Kristin Wong:
All right. I'll take it.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're the cool friend, talking about money and we have cool stuff to talk about. Your money tip is super cool, but before we do your money tip and that's a teaser for all the foodies out there, we're going to do your money story, which is so appropriate, because this is going to come out in April, which is our favorite month. Not. Because we talk about taxes and your money story is about the fun world of taxes. Tell us, Kristin.
Kristin Wong:
Oh man, I have a crazy tax story. When I first started freelancing six or seven years ago, I was full time freelancing and everything was going fine. I wasn't making that much money because I was new at it. I had no idea that you had to pay estimated quarterly taxes. It's just not something that I paid attention to. I was so used to having an employer take out taxes for me. So in April I decided to do my taxes, which usually I liked doing taxes because-
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you were probably getting refunds. You were getting refunds when you worked for an employer.
Kristin Wong:
Exactly.
Bobbi Rebell:
So this was the time you would be getting like a bonus.
Kristin Wong:
Right. So I was looking forward to all this money coming in, thinking what I was going to do with it. But nope. I had a $5000 tax bill. And some of it was penalties but it was mostly, I hadn't paid any of my taxes. And the fact that my taxes were only $5000 should tell you that I wasn't making that much. I had an emergency fund, thankfully and it just depleted my emergency fund.
Kristin Wong:
I remember, I had just moved to Los Angeles and I was proud of myself for finding a job here and I was a writer and I was making it at work, and I had an apartment, and I just remember-
Bobbi Rebell:
You were very grown up except for one thing.
Kristin Wong:
Except for the taxes. Well I just cried. I remember it was a Friday night-
Bobbi Rebell:
Did you just literally cry? You actually cried?
Kristin Wong:
I cried. I did because it was just-
Bobbi Rebell:
Was there witnesses?
Kristin Wong:
My now husband, was my boyfriend at the time and he was like trying to calm me down. He was like, it's going to be okay. I just remember like I wanted to go to TGIF Friday that night.
Bobbi Rebell:
And spend more money.
Kristin Wong:
Yeah. I was like, I want to do it. Let's go to TGIF Friday.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now did you have everyone helping you? Did you just go to a tax preparer? What happened?
Kristin Wong:
No.
Bobbi Rebell:
How was this all discovered?
Kristin Wong:
I just wasn't prepared at all for it. I thought, you know I've always been when of those type of people, I'll just say yeas and figure it out later. And that can definitely work in my favor, but this time it did not. I was unprepared for the freelance life and the massive change. Like how different it is financially.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, so let's talk about the lessons. What are the lessons, besides know whether you're paying taxes or not.
Kristin Wong:
Right. I'd say the lesson is just don't ignore money. Like I just ignored what it took to be a freelancer financially and I ignored all of that. And I think a lot of people do that. We don't like to think about money. We don't want to figure out the practical side of things. So we just kind of sweep it under the rug. I think a lot of people even take it further. They don't look at their budget or they don't look at their credit card statements, and that really was a game-changer for me because this was pre-writing about money days.
Kristin Wong:
But I really realized, nobody is going to care abut your finances. Nobody's going to hold your hand and walk you through it. And if you don't take care of it the somebody else will. Well if you don't care of your money somebody else -
Bobbi Rebell:
Somebody else will take it, somehow.
Kristin Wong:
They'll take it.
Bobbi Rebell:
It there like a checklist of things? So number one would be, be aware of taxes that you may owe. And if you're just starting out the truth is, you may earn so little money that you, especially with the new tax system, under a certain amount you may not even owe taxes. But you just need to figure out if you do.
Kristin Wong:
Right. And I would say, if you're going through a major work change like that, where your status is changing from full time to freelance, if you can afford it, go to a tax preparer and have them kind of walk you through the process. But at the very least, always research what your financial situation is going to look like if you have a major life change, especially when it comes to taxes. There are a lot of free resources on line, but I would say if you can afford it you certainly want to go to a professional.
Bobbi Rebell:
Are there some resources you can recommend?
Kristin Wong:
Yeah. The IRS.gov website is actually pretty great. They have a lot of resources for freelancers and independent contractors and that sort of thing. And Turbo Tax, their website actually has a lot of useful information. So I would check out those two resources.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's go to the money tip because I teased it a little bit earlier. I love this Kristin. This is one for the foodies.
Kristin Wong:
Yes, so it is ... My money tip is the high, low method for restaurant spending. And I actually read this tip from a restaurant critic on line. And he or she, I don't remember, this was a long time ago, basically said don't go to any middle of the road restaurants. Save your budget. Spend it mostly on hole-in-wall, cheaper restaurants because they are usually mom and pop owned and the food is really good and they stay in business because the food is really good.
Kristin Wong:
You're going to save money going to those cheaper restaurants and then use that to splurge every now and then on a really high-end, nice restaurant that's known for their cuisine. So his or her tip was, basically just avoid any middle of the road restaurants. And so if you are going to go out six times a month on restaurants, go to the cheaper places five times and then save your sixth splurge restaurant meal for a nicer high end restaurant.
Kristin Wong:
The idea is, those middle of the road restaurants ... I mean there are some exceptions to this. This is a generalization, but they're usually like, the food is very mediocre, and your not getting the most bank for your buck.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Kristin Wong:
But you will get the most value from the high, low method.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And you're usually just avoiding cooking at home because you just don't feel like it.
Kristin Wong:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, let me ask you ... So you talk about splurge. What is the most you've ever spent on one meal out, Kristen?
Kristin Wong:
Oh my gosh. I've told this story before but I ... I still I feel guilty about this but I spenT $40 on a steak once. And I don't know what I was thinking. I think that I had been ... My lifestyle-
Bobbi Rebell:
So the entrée was $40? The entrée. But that's not that bad.
Kristin Wong:
Yeah, but-
Bobbi Rebell:
Obviously there were other things to the whole meal.
Kristin Wong:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
What do you think the whole meal cost you, then?
Kristin Wong:
I was with a friend so we split it. But it was probably like $50, $60 for one person. And I had never spent that kind of money before. That's the thing. I grew up in a lower income household so $40 on steak. If my parent found out about that, they would slap me silly.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You haven't spent that much time in New York City, but maybe that's a good thing. New York City is not very budget-friendly. All right. We are never going out for steaks together. We are going to have some plain, simple coffee.
Kristin Wong:
I like the steaks, though.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Maybe we'll make steaks at home. That sounds like a good plan. All right. Thank you so much. I want to talk about your book quickly before I let you go. "Get Money." This is a good book. It is a paperback. I now carry it with me because it's like little nuggets of money tips and little things like what you just said about the restaurants. So many brilliant musings on money. Tell us a little bit more about it.
Kristin Wong:
Yeah. Well, it's a very actionable and interactive book so there area lot of exercises and there are a lot of assignments in it. You have to do work when you're reading it, so I would read it with a pen or pencil in hand. You can also go on line. There is an accompanying website to the book, called Thegetmoneybbok.com or you can find worksheets in like video tutorials for it, because I think sometimes with these money concepts, somebody tells you how to open a retirement account.
Kristin Wong:
And you're like, okay that sounds well and good when I'm reading it but when I go to the Vanguard website I have no idea how to get started. So I actually show you in some video tutorials exactly what you need to do to get started, so you have no excuse not to get your money in order.
Bobbi Rebell:
And there's a lot of value out of this book, because you quote so many of my favorite people, Cary Carbonaro. You quote Stephanie O'Connell, Holly Hansen, so many brilliant money minds are in here. It's great, so congratulations on the book. Where can people find you and what else are you up to?
Kristin Wong:
I am at the WildWong.com, is my website and all my social media handles. And I just sort of write about, of course personal fiance, but also resources for freelancers and that sort of thing too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. And your background, by the way is so cool. You were a movie writer, a TV writer. So interesting.
Kristin Wong:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Just quickly, how did you fall into the money stuff?
Kristin Wong:
Well I was actually writing full time freelance for about dating and relationships when I started writing about money. I actually started writing at "Get Rich Slowly', J.D. Roth's blog. I have always been fascinated with money. That's a longer story. But I would read his blog every morning and then one day he said that he was hiring writers, so I just applied to be a freelance writer and I started kind of blogging about ...
Kristin Wong:
Like I would write essays about my own dysfunctional relationship with money and I really just, I figured out how to get money through just writing about it for five years. So I wanted to share that knowledge with other people.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we appreciate it. Kristin Wong, thank you so much.
Kristin Wong:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Much as we hate to deal with it, taxes are a reality of being a financial grownup. Here's the thing. Kristin was able to contain the damage of not filing quarterly taxes as a freelancer because she had the cash in an emergency fund. So great. There were some consequences, but all things considered, Kristin made the problem go away. In reality that is not always the case. In fact, I'm going to bet, very often it's not the case, so what do you do if you don't have the cash?
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, first of all, financial grownup tip number one. No matter what, you still have to file the paperwork on time. Now you can file an extension if you just want to procrastinate and not even figure out what you owe. But you got to figure out some kind of idea, because they're going to start penalizing you and you're going to be paying interest on what you owe. So when you do pay it, it's going to be so much more.
Bobbi Rebell:
The money is due April 17th. Now, as Kristin said, the IRS.gov website can very easily walk you through all of this. They even have an IRS direct pay area of the website, where you can easily pay tax estimates. I'm going to leave a link to that in the show notes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Okay, let's say you literally do not have the cash. You need to get in touch with the IRS and you need to get on a payment plan. They can even give you extensions if you literally don't have the ability to pay anything right now. I'm going to give you a phone number to the IRS. 1-800-829-1040. 1-800-829-1040. Call them up, They will work out a plan.
Bobbi Rebell:
Be nice. The whole point is you're talking to a human being. You can be reasonable. They want to get their money and they want to get it consistently in a way that you're going to be able pay. So they're going to be flexible. In fact, they can often waive the penalties. Not only the interest on the money you owe, but the penalties. So ask.
Bobbi Rebell:
I do not recommend putting it on a credit card. In almost every case, unless you hae a 0 interest credit card, in almost every case the IRS, even with penalties will be less than the interest on a credit card. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and consider writing a review on Apple Piecasts, aka iTunes.
Bobbi Rebell:
It helps the show get discovered so we can share more money stories and tips and be in touch. On Twitter, I'm @BobbiRebell. On Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. And to learn more about the program and to get on our mailing list for bonus content and more go to BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGownuppodcast. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode with writer and money expert Kristin Wong. Get her book, "Get Money" and here's to us all getting always bit closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
After 148 rejections in the first funding round, Kathryn Minshew co-founder and CEO of the Muse took note of what she did wrong and upped her game when she went looking for new financing. Minshew scored close to $30 million thanks to the new approach.
In Kathryn’s money story you will learn
-How Kathryn and the Muse team re-vamped their strategy the second time they raised money
-How Kathryn rebounded from the 148 rejections in the seed round of financing
-How The Muse raised $30 million from investors
-How they were able to ask for less money and come out with more than the original targets
-The way Kathryn structured her process when pitching investors
-How they organized their pitches and research to be more effective
-Kathryn’s investor prioritization strategy
-The specific thing Kathryn said to investors to get them to the table faster- and with more interest in her company
-How a second round of financing is different- and should be approached differently from a seed round
In Kathryn’s lesson you will learn:
-The advice Kathryn found most helpful from her networks and mentors
-How she got help from other entrepreneurs
-How to tell if the investors are wrong not to invest- or if your idea and pitch is missing the mark
-How to figure out who your end users are- and why it is important
-Strategies and specific things to ask in order to get honest input about your company
In Kathryn’s money tip you will learn:
-Negotiations can be about more than just cash
-How to ask for signing bonuses, signing bonuses, flextime, vacation time, better titles.
-Why budgets for professional training are essential and how to negotiate for them
In my take you will learn:
-How to learn lessons from rejection, and incorporate them in your next venture
-The importance of taking the time to throughtfully plan and customize presentations and pitches
-How to level the playing field even when the other party is clearly more powerful.
Episode links:
TheMuse.com
Kathryn’s book with Muse co-founder Alexandra Cavoulacos The New Rules of Work
Follow Kathryn and The Muse!
Instagram @kminshew @themuse
Twitter: @Kmin and @TheMuse and @TheNewRules
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/thedailymuse
https://www.facebook.com/minshew
Transcription
Kathryn Minshew:
If you tell someone you're the founder of a company and ask for their input, they are more likely to give you positive impact because they don't want to hurt your feelings. If you tell them that you're a consultant helping a company understand how its market positioning lands, or helping a company better understand what it's doing well and what it's not, people are much more likely to give you totally unfiltered feedback for the series A because I was running a process.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to "Financial Grownup" with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup". You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everybody. This is an episode about rejection, and what you would do differently the second time around. How to tell were they wrong to reject you? Maybe your message could be a little bit more on point. The Muse founder and CEO, Kathryn Minshew has told the story many times of how she and her colleagues were rejected 148 times when they when to raise money for their startup, The Muse. Once the company got off the ground, it has been a massive success, and many people would say, "Well, those 148 people, they must be so sorry that they rejected it." And of course, that is true to some extent. But also, Kathryn looks back and realizes she had a lot that she would do differently the next time. And in fact, she did do it differently when she went back for the next round of financing, and that's what we talked about. Here is Kathryn Minshew.
Bobbi Rebell:
Kathryn Minshew, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the program.
Kathryn Minshew:
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you are well known as the founder and CEO of The Muse, the amazing job site, and also well known for being rejected when you went to raise money. Tell me how many, 140 something times?
Kathryn Minshew:
148 times. It was like rejection for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, with a few meetings and noes inbetween for fun.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you are the queen of resilience, and one thing that you talk about in your book, "The New Rules of Work", which I should have mentioned to everybody. She is the author of a fabulous career book called "The New Rules of Work".
Bobbi Rebell:
You talk about your personal brand, and how important it is to define it. That fundraising and the lack of it for so long became your personal brand. So you brought with you a money story that has to do with what happened next, after you finally did get the initial funding and you went back for me. Tell us.
Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. Well, first of all, I'll say it's much easier as we all know to talk about failure once you've moved past it. So it became much easier to tell the story of the 148 noes after we had already successfully raised our series A and B rounds. So we've raised almost $30 million in venture capital so far for The Muse.
Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing.
Kathryn Minshew:
It's been a totally wild ride. So my financial story involves what I set out to do, or rather what I did in the series A to ensure that we had an outcome that was very different than the seed round. Because, obviously, I knew how important it was for that next round, to get it right from the go-ahead. And so to try and condense the story into something very quick, we wanted to go out and initially we were thinking about raising six to $7 million. But actually given the advice that I got while preparing for a fundraise, we were actually told to start out saying we were thinking five to six or five to seven, and then slowly let the demand build. So instead of us going out for a big number and being less sure if the market would respond, start out with a smaller number. And then, if the market is really excited about our business, let the negotiations and the demand push it up, which ended up working really well for us because we ended up raising 10 million after we had overwhelming demand.
Kathryn Minshew:
I also was incredibly structured about the process probably because I was a little bit paranoid after having such a difficult time with our seed round. So ahead of time, I really worked the story, got all of our metrics out there. I thought about how best to position them, which numbers to lead with, what to put first so that we could really grab people's attention. We were obviously lucky in that we had really great revenue growth and a lot of very strong metrics.
Kathryn Minshew:
And then, I actually created a spreadsheet. I took all of the investors that I was even remotely interested in talking to. I put them in a spreadsheet. Divided it up by location, so that when I was in New York, San Francisco, Boston, Chicago, DC, et cetera, I could meet with people who were there. Then, I included information about whether they had invested in any similar companies, any competitors. Any companies that might give them a better understanding into what we did at The Muse. I would include notes from different meetings. I actually would also rank how excited I was after each meeting to continue conversations, so I could prioritize the ones that I was most excited about. I would say that really helped to keep me on track, and so we were also able to run a pretty tight process, where we pinned all of our first meetings with investors to the same two-and-a-half or three-week period.
Kathryn Minshew:
It was really interesting because in the seed round, we had a lot of trouble with investors saying, "Oh, I'm busy, right now. But how about in a month?" I wasn't confident enough in the business, so we would just take whatever we could get for the series A because I was running a process. I would write back to people and be like, "You know I'd love to talk, but unfortunately, I need to get all of our first meetings done by X date. So I can push it a few days, but let me know if you're going to be able to make it work. And if not, I'm totally fine. We'll keep in touch and maybe there'll be another round that you can participate in." And what was fascinating is a lot of people would say, "Oh, let me move around my schedule. Absolutely, I can make it work." And suddenly, we were negotiating from a more even position. And the ones that weren't able to or the ones that said, "No, sorry. I can't do it," they probably would have never backed the company to begin with.
Bobbi Rebell:
True. Do you think looking back, obviously when you were going for the most money, the second round, you were a stronger situation to begin with. But had you used the techniques that you were now using that you just talked about, would you have had more success the first time?
Kathryn Minshew:
You know, maybe. It's so hard to know because the seed round for a startup is really different than later rounds because people aren't necessarily looking at your metrics. They are to some extent, but they're really betting on you. And I think the fact that it was my first proper company that I was fairly young at the time, this was six-and-a-half years ago, so it was very early in my career. And I think that plus the lack of knowledge or understanding about what we were trying to do in the business were some of the biggest concerns. So I do think we could have had a better time and controlled the process a bit more, but I also think there were just some fundamental and structural things that we had to get through and really prove on very limited capital before we could really go out and successfully fundraise from bigger investors.
Bobbi Rebell:
So now, what is your advice to listeners and especially want-to-be entrepreneurs that are looking to raise money, start businesses, and especially to young women?
Kathryn Minshew:
I would say, firstly, you can't understate the importance of perseverance because it is so hard in the early days. But I think that doesn't mean that you just keep doing the same thing without adjusting your tactics and thinking about how you could be more strategic. I found it to be so invaluable to get the advice from others, especially other female entrepreneurs. Because sometimes we have a lot of great friends who are entrepreneurs, who are men, but sometimes the tactics or the approaches or behaviors that would work for them, didn't work the same when I did them because of unintentional or unconscious bias or other things. And so I found that it was really helpful to surround myself with a network of entrepreneurs of both genders to get a lot of advice, to test out different approaches to see what felt natural and normal to me. Because if it feels too unnatural to you, investors will probably pick up on that, and it won't help you communicate that confidence that you are looking for when you're starting to talk to investors about your business.
Bobbi Rebell:
So one last question about this for our listeners, how do you know the difference between maybe your idea just isn't that good, and that's why you're not getting funding and you should stop, or you should persevere as you did because your idea just isn't hitting the right people at the right time with the right message?
Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. So you've just gotten to the crux of what makes this so hard, which is that there is no silver bullet, and you will never have 100% confidence or certainty either way, which is incredibly difficult. However, I think there are a few things you can use to help you directionally get that sense of whether your business is likely to be successful. The first, and I think the most important is to figure out who are your end users and do as much as possible to get unfiltered feedback from them.
Kathryn Minshew:
For example, if you tell someone you're the founder of a company and ask for their input, they're more likely to give you positive input because they don't want to hurt your feelings. If you tell them that you're a consultant helping a company understand how its marketing positioning lands or helping a company better understand what its doing well and what it's not, people are much more likely to give you totally unfiltered feedback, and you need that unfiltered feedback when you're trying to ascertain if you really need to keep pushing forward on your business.
Kathryn Minshew:
So in my case, even though we were getting rejection, after rejection, after rejection from a lot of investors, we were hearing things from our users and from people who were signing up to use The Muse that indicated we had tapped a nerve and we were on a path that people love. They wanted us to use the product. They'd say I love The Muse, but can you do these five things? Make it better here. Change this. That's all positive feedback because that shows you that there is a need. You just have to keep getting better, and I think that is what gave me the oomph to keep going. But I will just call out it's not like I knew the whole time, oh my gosh, this is a great idea. I just have to keep going. I definitely struggled with whether I should accept that these people that were much more experienced than I, that were successful investors, maybe they knew something I didn't, and I just had hubris.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's do a money tip. You are the career guru, and you have so many amazing ideas and tips in your book. I wanted to pull some out of there and get maybe your favorite tips that people can use in their careers, and their ventures that they could maybe put to work ASAP at their next job interview or their next negotiation, what have it.
Kathryn Minshew:
I thought through a lot of different things I could share here, and the one I came up with that I wanted to talk about today is the fact that when you negotiate, it is not just all about cash and I think it can be really empowering to realize that because so many of us have anxiety about negotiating a salary, negotiating a raise. Whether it's at the beginning of a job search, or when you're getting a promotion. But I would encourage people, remember that there are a lot of other things you can negotiate for.
Kathryn Minshew:
So obviously, base salary is the thing that people talk about most. But what about signing bonuses, performance bonuses if you achieve certain things? You can also negotiate for flex time, for vacation time, for a better title that might help you in your career. One of the most creative things that I've heard is people negotiating for a budget for professional development and training.
Bobbi Rebell:
Specific money. In other words, not just saying, "Will you send me," in theory. It's very specific.
Kathryn Minshew:
Oh, very specific. In fact, there was someone at an organization that had mandatory salary bans that the leadership wasn't able to go beyond, and so she said great. Why don't you dedicate ... I think it was five or $10,000 towards training development conference that will include my travel, and that will help level me up to be a better employee for you, to let me do my job better, and it won't invalidate the salary cap. This will just be another way that you're investing in my growth, and they said yes, and I think that is such a great example of creativity when it comes to negotiation.
Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. That's such great advice. Thank you so much. Tell us quickly before we wrap up, what are you guys up to at The Muse these day, and where can people find you?
Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. So people can find me at The Muse or @kmin on Twitter. As a company, we are doing a lot right now, but we have been really focusing on we rolled out a new feature called Discussions on TheMuse.com, where people can ask and answer each other's questions. So if you have a career question or you want to learn more about negotiating a raise, we've got a way now to get advice from our community and hear other people's stories. And then, I'm also just kind of fascinated down the road by continuing to explore this idea of how people make the best career decisions, how they find the right fits, and how we help companies tell their stories in a more genuine and authentic way that isn't about just come work here, we're great, but really shares the information people need to know to decide do I want to be part of that organization, or be part of that company?
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Here's my take on what Kathryn had to say.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip, number one. Like she did, do your homework, including learning what went wrong the first time. Even if you think the companies or whomever you were pitching to were wrong to reject your idea, we all have room for improvement. Kathryn went out and asked for advice, for example, about how much money to ask for. She actually went for a smaller number based on the advice as a strategy, and ended up raising more money, so it worked. She was also much more organized and structured in her preparations the second time around. She was specific to each company, and deliberate in her presentation. She planned geographically, so she could be efficient with her time. Kathryn even ranked how excited she was about prospects, so she could prioritize and focus on her resources and the best alow there.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip, number two. Stand up for yourself, even if you need them more than they need you. In Kathryn's second round, when prospects said they didn't have the time to meet with her any time soon, she pushed back and was not only able to get them to the table faster when they were interested, but also to level the playing field for a stronger negotiating position.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for listening to this episode of financial grownup. Please subscribe if you have not already. Reviews are great if you have just a few minutes. You can follow me @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and learn more about the show at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. I hope that you all enjoyed this episode of "Financial Grownups" with The Muse's Kathryn Minshew, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
"Financial Grownup" with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart, and is a BRK Media production.
Stefanie O’Connell had stars in her eyes but no cash in her bank account. So she pivoted her passion for drama into a more profitable profession.
In Stefanie’s story you will learn:
-The challenges of her seven years as a professional actress
-How the recession left her unemployed half way around the world
-The harsh financial realities of the entertainment business
-The creative ways Stefanie handled her finances, including roommates, while she traveled as an actress
-Her advice on balancing passion with paying for the life you want
-Why she pivoted to become a personal finance expert
-The tools she uses to manager her own money
-How to build a lifestyle you love while still following your passion
-The two big fairytales she says millennials need to get over
-Her take on how the financial challenges millennials face are different from previous generations
In Stefanie’s lesson you will learn:
-How to own your income potential
-Ways to build your skill sets and find new market opportunities
-How to maximize income growth
-How to transition your passion skill set into one that is also profitable
In Stefanie’s money tip you will learn:
-Her online shopping strategy
-How she uses online cash back portals like ebates
-The savings you can get from browser extensions like Honey that automatically search for coupons and promo codes
-Ways to stack your savings using cash back credit cards
In my take you will learn:
-Why I believe passions should usually not be connected to income
-The benefits of taking the pressure off earning money from your passion
-The danger of having unrealistic expectations from side hustles
-Strategies to own your future by going beyond your credentials like academic accomplishments
Episode links:
Stefanie’s book The Broke and the Beautiful Life
Ebates
Honey
You can find Stefanie at:
Stefanie O’Connell.com
Get Stefanie’s free Cash Confidence challenge
Sign up for Stefanie’s All In DIY class!
Stefanie’s facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/661192974055824/
Stefanie’s book The Broke and the Beautiful Life
Instagram @stefanieoconnell
Twitter @stefanieoconnell
Facebook: Stefanie OConnell
Stefanie O’Connell had stars in her eyes but no cash in her bank account. So she pivoted her passion for drama into a more profitable profession. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn about Stefanie's challenges of her seven years as a professional actress, her advice on balancing passion with paying for the life you want, and how to maximize income growth. #Income #LifeLessons #Author