Entrepreneur and Investor Barbara Corcoran explains why she believes spending money in a deliberate way even before you earn it is a smart business strategy, and shares the story of her first really big investment. And yes, she committed to it before she had the money.

In Barbara’s money story you will learn:

-How she bought her first house at age 29 (which had 8 bedrooms!)

-The importance of discussing big purchases with a significant other

-How Barbara saved $7,500 in three months

In Barbara’s money lesson you will learn:

-How she motivates herself to save money

-Why she chooses to ignore rational and take risks

-Her advice on committing to a goal

In Barbara’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Why she spends money before she has it

-How she puts herself under pressure in order to produce financial results

In My Take you will learn:

-Why it's always good to listen to different opinions and take advice from successful people

-Two negotiation tips that will save you money and help your career

Bobbi and Barbara also talk about:

-Chef Boyardee and Ramen noodles, the quick dinner that helped save Barbara money and reminded Bobbi of her childhood

EPISODE LINKS:

Listen to Barbara Corcoran's podcast Business Unusual here, and on iTunes

Watch Barbara give more business advice on the multi-Emmy award winning show Shark Tank on ABC

Follow Barbara!

Twitter: @BarbaraCorcoran

Instagram: @BarbaraCorcoran

Facebook: @TheBarbaraCorcoran

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Barbara Corcoran:
I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I start spending it even before it arrives.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, my Financial Grownup friends, brace yourself Barbara Corcoran is here and she is going to give it to us straight up, no beating around the bush and she said some things that frankly I was pretty surprised with. They go against almost everything that I've been taught about building a solid financial foundation for your life, for your business, but she made it work. I'm still not sure I could make it work for me, but I'm thinking about it because she makes a good case and I'm interested to hear what you guys think after you hear her interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
So glad you are here. As I said, this episode is a really big one, so if you're new, you're joining it a really good time. We do something by the way called flex time for podcast, the episodes are kept pretty short, around 15 minutes. The idea is no excuses you can always fit it in, make it easy for you while you're running a quick errand, what have you, but if you have a longer commute, you can also stack them. We have a library now of more than a hundred episodes so you can listen to a few on your commute if that's what worked for you. Make sure that when you subscribe and hopefully you are subscribing, we really need the support that you set the downloads, go into the manual settings and set it so that you automatically get the downloads so that you don't miss any and you're good to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we love automation because that way things just happen and it's one less thing to remember. Alright, let's get to Barbara Corcoran and you know her from Shark Tank and now she has a new podcast called Business Unusual, also really short, so that's a good thing. She gives a lot of advice that seems shocking until you listen to it and listen to her reasons and then think that is part of how Barbara Corcoran is successful. It's the unusual. She approaches things in a different way from the way that we're always used to approaching it and it works for her. It may not work for you. The big takeaway from this episode, which you'll see I'm going to talk about after her interview. I don't know if I could do it, but I can see how it worked for her. So with that, here is Shark Tank's Barbara Corcoran.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Barbara Corcoran you're at Financial Grownup welcome to the podcast.

Barbara Corcoran:
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of your new podcast. For many reasons, of course also because it's a short podcast, but you have the best wisdom and you share so many lessons from your life, so thank you for that.

Barbara Corcora:
My pleasure. I enjoy doing it, but it's a scary proposition as I'm sure you will know, you have to earn people's ears while you're talking to them.

Bobbi Rebell:
You do, well you've been earning it for many years and you're going to share a money story from early in your life, your very first real estate purchase or I should say your first house and it sounds like it's going to be a story, but there's something that happened that I think people want to hear. Go for it.

Barbara Corcoran:
Yeah, and it has a valuable lesson. When I committed to purchasing my first home with my first husband. I was about 29 years old. I didn't have a pot to pee in as they say, but we sat across the dinner table for a man who said he was selling a certain house that was like a magical house from what I heard, and my mouth said, I'll take it. And why it was magical. It was a house that anybody would think you could only dream about, which was a house with eight bedrooms two guest cottages, a wet and a dry boat house facing a brand new lake.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you have kids at this point, Barbara?

Barbara Corcoran:
No, of course not.

Bobbi Rebell:
Who was moving into this mansion?

Barbara Corcoran:
Listen, I figured I'd have fun with friends, but I had no rights saying we'll take it to which my husband was more startled than I was over my own mouth. Because we didn't have a dime to our name, we were struggling to just meet our bills. We're still kind of kids coming up the ranks, but-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so tell me what happened. How did you buy the house?

Barbara Corcoran:
Once I said we'd buy the house, we had the problem of coming up with the down payment, 7,500. And so my husband and I started eating tomato noodles every night that I think they're chef Boyardee or something in a can and bring them lunch every day and we saved every penny of what we were earning in our lives, short of the rent we had to pay for our studio apartment. Well, three months hence we had most of the down payment but not quite and we're out for dinner with the same big boss of his and he mentioned that his father, he wanted to close, which was putting ... Was scaring me to death because I still didn't have enough money.

Barbara Corcoran:
But he said his father was reluctant to leave the house and I volunteered. Well, why don't you let your father stay there, but in trade for that, I got four months extra time. So we were able to save the down payment of $7,500. No problem. But when we got to the closing, the closing costs too, which I didn't have, but he was so in dear to us for keeping his elderly dad in the house that he paid for the closing costs for us. And we moved into that beautiful house and we had it for seven years until I decided to leave my husband and he got the house.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why did that happen? How did you let that happen?

Barbara Corcoran:
You know why? Because I got the apartment in the city by then we had bought a one bedroom apartment in the city and I sold that one bedroom that I paid $80,000 for two years later for 250. And he sold that house that we had paid $75,000 for two years after our divorce for $75,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Barbara Corcoran:
I'm a believer in always committing throwing it out there and say I'm going to do it. Because when you have that kind of pressure and you've publicly committed, you find a way to get there. If you can commit to something, you'll find a way of getting there. If I had said, give me a couple of months, let me see if I could save for the house, believe me, my rational side would have kicked in and said, what are you doing? But because I said I would, I found a way that could do it and that's the truth, and most people are better than they think. If they're willing to be courageous enough to state it as low as fact and then make it happen versus the other way around.

Bobbi Rebell:
And eat a lot of canned noodles.

Barbara Corcoran:
Oh yeah,[inaudible 00:06:40] Yeah, you can do anything if you know it's temporary.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us your everyday money tip because this is also a real Barber tip because this is something that works for you may not work for other people, but it is a strategy that people might want to consider. Again, for you it works it may not be for everyone. Go for it.

Barbara Corcoran:
It's a particularly good strategy if you're out to those your own business, and I'll tell you why. My strategy is this. I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I started spending it even before it arrives. The reason for that is I have no choice but to actually make it happen whatever I'm doing. Because I know I've already committed the money. It's like putting a gun to your own head where you have to produce. If instead you wait for the money to come in and then say, okay, I've got this little extra cash. We've had a profit this month. Let's see the best use of it. That sounds rational, but I'm telling you the fever with which you attacked the best use of it is nothing compared to knowing that the bank is going to come in and chop your head off if you don't produce.

Barbara Corcoran:
So. I've always consistently put myself under pressure by spending money long before I have it and I've never let myself down. There's something magical that happens in the universe when you really under fire when you have no choice that you find a way to get there, and so I'm a big spender and on top of that I can also say, although I was born a poor kid and have my thousand dollar loan from my boyfriend, thank God, or we have been able to quit my waitress job and starting a business nowhere. Okay.

Barbara Corcoran:
But once I had that thousand dollars, I just thought, you know what? This is found money. It's a gift from God and I'm just gonna run this thing up the flag pole until somebody stops me and my most assured policy of making sure no one stopped me was to spend money in advance of having it because I had no choice but to make good on it. I had no choice and ran like a devil with a limited timeframe and I was able to accomplish 10 times more than all my competitors simply because of the pressure I had put on my own back. All right, so it's not what you read in accounting book, but I can tell you when you're building a business, it's a smarter way to go than to be calculated and do it a step at a time.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's the real world. One other quick question though, did you ever have trouble and how did you handle it collecting those receivables?

Barbara Corcoran:
No, I wrote off about 10% of my receivables because you have to appreciate. My business was selling co-ops in New York City and we had about 10% of our deals that didn't approve the Co-op association. They were turned down by the board, so I knew what that average was the first year, by the typical may be the second year in business, I realized I lost 10% of my deals, so I just wrote off that 10%. So that was realistic in suddenly a good accountant would do, but that's where my relationship or any resemblance to an accountant definitely ended in my attitude to it and everything else.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. I want to talk quickly about your, still relatively new podcast even though who would know it because it's always at the top of the charts where to I'm trying to climb, but you're there and that's a lot because your podcast is so good. It is a short one, so dear to my heart, but you also really deliver personal and as you have here very honest and straightforward advice about your life and the lessons that you have learned and your bold with it. Your most recent episode talked about quitting jobs. You quit 22 jobs Barbara, you also talk about negotiation skills. Tell me more about this podcast and why it is so different and people are really responding to it?

Barbara Corcoran:
I think people are responding well simply because I tell it like it is. And it doesn't mean if it's the person listening, but I think they leave trusting that they heard the truth and I also think I'm impatient by nature. So if you're gonna ask me what about negotiation? Most people can write a book on that. I can't. I can tell you in eight minutes flat, what the key to negotiation, what are the key moves and what doesn't work. And really I don't have more to say after the eight minutes. So I think because I have such a short attention span and because I'm so impatient by nature myself and listening, I want to know what you want out of me and what do I gotta do. And that's pretty much how I am with everybody. Get to the point and then tell me how you get there.

Barbara Corcoran:
So I do get to the point and then tell you how I get there and then the eight minutes are up and I'm signing off. I wish I was more verbose and had more great delicious detail, but I just say the main things that worked for me and I leave it at that and my sign off until the following week. So I hope it works. We'll see. It's very scary as I'm sure you know, to merit someone's eight minutes. I feel it's such an abuse or a trust that I feel like every word has to really, really count or I have no business doing its own. I'm Mostly scared, I'm scared to six days. Then I do the podcast, then I get scared all over again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you're doing a great job. I don't find you scary at all. I love it. I think you're worth investing every one of those eight minutes, so thank you for all that you do. Everyone knows where to find you, but just in case because I ask everyone, tell us where you can be found, where people can follow you on social and what else is important that's going on in your life that we should know about.

Barbara Corcoran:
Well, of course it's a Business Unusual, which is the podcast, my newest baby, but as usual, any social platform @BarbaraCorcoran is very easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you Barbara.

Barbara Corcoran:
I love you back. Bobbi. Thank you so much. And Go back to your real name, Barbara, it's such a pretty name.

Bobbi Rebell:
So if you're like me, you want to hit rewind and listen again. She's that good. And before I get to the financial bonus tips, just want to make a little comment about the food because we spend so much time agonizing over all of this organic fancy food and when we're saving money, everyone talks about the ramen noodles. I want to talk to you about the chef Boyardee that she and her husband were eating to save up money because you know what, that's fun childhood memories for me. My mom was a working mom and you know what? Sometimes we have something called spaghettios. Do you guys even know what that is? It's basically this like circle pasta in a can and tomato sauce and it's delicious. It may not have any nutrition, but if you see spaghettios in the store, I have no affiliation with them. Pick them up and try them instead of ramen noodles if you're trying to save money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just for variety, be a little bit bad. Like I said, they're probably not nutritious at all. All right, let's talk about my tips. Finance grownup tip number one. Sometimes financial advice like Barbra's goes against common stereotypical things that we hear. Here's the thing though, always listen to different opinions especially when they're from someone like Barbara Corcoran who has been so successful in so many different fields, to not only real estate where she started out, but also now with Shark Tank. She's an entrepreneur investing in so many different companies, so listen to her and give it some thought. Now I'm not telling you to go out and spend money that you don't have or even to spend on receivables, which is really what she was doing. It was money that she had contracts for but had not yet received so she believed that money was coming, but I see her point and I also see how that can create a really strong motivation so before totally rejecting it or even accepting it, play out how that would work for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
How are you going to cover things for example, if someone does not pay or if they pay, but they are on a delayed schedule so they're not paying in 30 days like your bill says they're paying 60, 90, 100, 20 days out. How are you going to finance that? You have a line of credit with your business. Are you throwing that on a credit card where you might be paying interest, late fees? What have you, factor that in. Are you going to charge a late fee to them? Barbara factored in that 10% of her expected commissions receivables were not going to happen so even she was doing that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, be creative and flexible. When you're negotiating. Barbara, let the sellers elderly dad stay in the house longer than originally planned. Again, you have to give Barbara props for being open minded and in return by the way, she got precious time and the goodwill was so strong and her gesture was still appreciated that the closing costs were paid by the seller.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is huge. Thank you all for being part of the Financial Grownup community. We bring this to you for free. The only payment we ask is that you share it with someone that you care about and that you believe would enjoy and benefit from the podcast. Your reviews and your feedback. I'm just going to tell you guys straight up there is really important. I read everyone, we don't get as many as I would like. There aren't that many there and I know a lot of you are out there. A lot of you are DMing me, which is actually really great. Still DM me, gave me the feedback, but if you can also leave reviews on Apple podcasts, that is also really helpful to get the show notice because that's how people discover the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you do want to also be in touch on social media, it's not either or guys. Follow me and DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1 that's the number one on twitter I'm @BobbyRebel and on Facebook, Bobbi Rebell as well. And big things of course to the amazing Barbara Corcoran, the ultimate Financial Grownup. Everyone check out her podcast Business Unusual and watch her on Shark Tank and thank you Barbara Corcoran for getting us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Serial Entrepreneur Peter Shankman, who also hosts the Faster than Normal podcast and wrote a book by the same name, talks about taking calculated risks like skydiving, business strategies that have taken his side hustles into massive businesses like HARO, and the choices he’s made to build the life he not only wanted, but needed. 

In Peter’s money story you will learn:

-The type of risks to take in order to grow a business

-"Spending money to make money" is really a balancing act

-Peter's top three tips on how to handle going into debt

-How Peter feels about Las Vegas

In Peter’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to act on new business ideas

-Growing a business is a marathon not a sprint

-Tips to visualizing goals 

-Why Peter gets up at 4 AM every day

In Peter’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Spoonbill.io is an app that shows you anyone that has updated their bio. 

-He suggests using the changes in status as an opening to reach out and connect

Learn more about Peter!!

Check out his FasterthanNormal.com website

Get more info about his mastermind group at Shankminds.com

His website is Shankman.com

Connect with Peter on social

Instagram @petershankman

Twitter @petershankman

---

Transcription

Peter Shankman:
Going into debt for things that you love or things that you believe in isn't necessarily a bad thing. And I encourage people to go after what they love, but the question becomes, "Are you going after something you love and still able to do it in such a way? What happens if it doesn't work?"

Bobbie Rebell:
You are Listening to you Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grown-up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to. Get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbie Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup fans. That was entrepreneur and ADHD Advocate Peter Shankman. He talks fast, but pay close attention. He's worth it. Quick. Welcome to, everyone. Thanks for being here. We keep it simple. Spending about 15 minutes talking with high achievers, sharing there are many stories giving us insight into how they became such high achievers. If you like what you hear, please do all the things, subscribe, rate, review, take a screenshot, share it on social, tag me so I can thank you and tell a friend you care about.

Bobbie Rebell:
Let's talk about Peter Shankman. He does a lot and largely credits his ADHD, which stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder with being key to his success, which is why he wrote a book about it called Faster Than Normal, hosts, a podcast by that name, and now has the Shank Minds Community. He also wrote a bunch of other books. He was in PR. You might be familiar with the Geek Factory where he started a little side hustle to help journalists like me called appropriately help a reporter out or HARO. It's become very well-known and it's still a really big deal after he sold it. Also, he's an angel investor and he does marathons, Ironman triathlons, and he does a ton of skydiving like close to 500 jumps. Peter is a big deal. Let's get to him. Here is Peter Shankman.

Bobbie Rebell:
Hey, Peter Shankman, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Peter Shankman:
Well, that's questionable, but thank you. It's good to be here.

Bobbie Rebell:
And congratulations on all your recent success, including your book Faster Than Normal, which is also a podcast, and a mastermind group, and that follows on the heels of many entrepreneurial successes. The most dear to my heart, of course, is HARO, help a reporter out, which you guys sold, but certainly, you have made such a name with that, so congratulations on all that.

Peter Shankman:
Thank you. I've gotten lucky. Good times.

Bobbie Rebell:
And speaking of your entrepreneurial success, that brings us to your money story, which has to do with going into debt in part for success. Nothing you necessarily regret, but something that ties into your ADHD, which you've talked about, and you talk about so much publicly. That's actually been something that you've leveraged as an entrepreneur, but it also created debt.

Peter Shankman:
When somebody with ADHD comes up with the idea for a company, which is what they do a lot.

Bobbie Rebell:
You've had many companies.

Peter Shankman:
I have. The premise is like, "All right, I wonder if I could do this better," and like three hours later I have some have started a company, and I'm not really sure how. The problem there is that it's not necessarily cheap to do. And for me, I got lucky in the respect that when I started my first one back in the 90s, which was the Geek Factory, a public relations firm, I did it in such a way that I created an idea for this tee-shirt. The movie Titanic was coming out, and I had this idea that I could sell tee-shirts in times square, because there had to be other people that hated the movie, as well. So I went into Time Square with 500 tee-shirts that I spent my rent money on tee-shirts that read, "It sank, get over it." I thought I could sell maybe 150 in Times Square and make my money back.

Peter Shankman:
And I sold like 500 in six hours. I cleared like five grand, and I cleared about 100 grand on the web. But that was a risky thing, because that was my rent money. If I didn't have that, I didn't do well, I was kind of screwed. Right? So it's those things where you come up with this idea, and you see what happens, and you risk it, but going into debt for things that you love or things that you believe in isn't necessarily a bad thing. And I encourage people to go after what they love. But the question becomes, are you going after something you love and still able to do it in such a way, what happens if it doesn't work? And there are a lot of people don't think like that.

Bobbie Rebell:
And to some degree, even though it was your rent money and, in your head, of course, that's a huge amount of money. You later made even bigger bets.

Peter Shankman:
I definitely made bigger bets. Here's the thing, there are two types of risks. There's blind risk and there's calculated risk. And I'm a skydiver, right? I have close to 500 jumps. I own my own gear and the whole thing and if I thought that I was going to die every time I jumped out of a plane, I wouldn't do it. Right. The key is, is that I believe that the training I have, and the gear I have, I keep it clean. I keep it in good shape. I know what I'm doing. I've learned how to do it, and so if I thought I was going to die everything I jumped I wouldn't jump. So I take calculated risks and calculated risks, while they're still risky, inherently called risks. The end of the world is not coming, so I'm not going to be like, "Okay, I'm going to start this. If it doesn't work, I'm homeless and living on the street."

Bobbie Rebell:
So tell us about HARO.

Peter Shankman:
HARO was a company. I built the connected journalists with sources all around the world. For me it was, "Okay, I'm going to start this on my own using a mailing list and paying a kid, who I know, a 100 bucks to build me the cheapest website known to man," because all you really needed to do was capture email addresses, and I did it. What wound up happening was that as it started growing I was able to ... I never planned on making money at it, to begin with. I planned on doing it sort of for the sake of doing it, for fun and it would help journalists. It would help my friends, and it would be good Karma and it wound up blowing up in such a way that it started generating revenue without my really expecting it to. But on the flip side, as it got bigger, I had to spend more money to keep it alive. And so it was that balancing, because look, I'm not an MBA. For me, it was a balancing act of how do I do that? And that was a lesson I learned on the fly.

Bobbie Rebell:
So what exactly happened? You went into debt unexpectedly for that.

Peter Shankman:
I went to debt unexpected. Not a tremendous amount, but certainly enough where I'm sitting there going, "Hmm, this is interesting." I live in New York City, right? I was renting an apartment at the time, in midtown Manhattan, which was not cheap, still isn't. And I've since bought one, which is even less cheaper or more expensive, but it gets to the point where it's like, "Okay, am I still able to do this and what's my runway like?" I think that's what a lot of people don't think about. They think, "Okay, I'm going to go into debt for this." You got to look two, three, four, eight, 10, 12 months in advance, or 12 into the future. How is that going to look in 12 months? How's the runway that I'm on right now? So the plane going down the runway at some point you need to take off or slam on the brakes.

Bobbie Rebell:
What was your runway?

Peter Shankman:
I think for the first four months that I was building HARO, there was absolutely no revenue coming in, because again, it was just me and a mailing list, right? It wasn't costing that much, but HARO got picked up by a newspaper. It got picked up by the New York Times. It got picked up, Seth Godin wrote about it, so all of a sudden we were getting thousands of new members per day, and I was using a mailing list service that based their charges on how many members we had. Right? So the more emails I was sending out every day, that's great at building the site, the more it was costing me.

Peter Shankman:
I think I went from like at one point 100 bucks a month in mailing lists charges to 2000 bucks a month in mailing list charges. Right. And so something has to happen here. At the same time people started calling me, said, "Hey, we use HARO all the time. We open every single email, do you accept advertising on it?" And so all of a sudden I was able to start selling ads against HARO. And my premise was I'll sell ads for whatever the cost of everything I'm having to pay for is. Again, wasn't even trying to turn a profit.

Bobbie Rebell:
Why? Why were you not trying to turn a profit?

Peter Shankman:
Because I still was running a public relations firm and at the time I was still running a PR firm. My premise was just, "Okay, I'll just keep doing this and building it." And then one day, it kind of hit me like, "You know what? This is a lot more profitable than the PR firm. This can make a lot more money than the PR firm. I should put all my effort into this." So I started shutting down my clients, giving them to other companies, things like that. And that's when I realized, "Okay, there's a lot of money to be made here."

Bobbie Rebell:
Talk about the connection between ADHD, and your experience as an entrepreneur.

Peter Shankman:
You need to be very aware. Like I said, when you only have two speeds when you're ADHD, so you need to be very aware that the ideas that come into your head, "Hey, this seems like a great idea. Let's do this," right. Might not necessarily be a great idea, or they might sound like an awesome idea, but you have to make sure that you actually can afford to do said idea, right? It's one thing to go into debt on a brilliant idea. It's another thing to say, "Hey, this is interesting. Let's go to bed." So the question is, is it going to work? If you don't have a plan, you're going to get in trouble,

Bobbie Rebell:
But you didn't have a plan at HARO. Really?

Peter Shankman:
I also didn't know I was at ADHD at the time.

Bobbie Rebell:
Okay, fair enough.

Peter Shankman:
It wasn't until about five years later that I realized all this stuff that I do has an actual name for it, and so for instance, now when I go to Vegas to give a keynote, anywhere in the world that I keynote, my contract basically says, "I'll keynote, you'll pay me, except in Las Vegas," In Las Vegas, it says, "Client does not have to be on the ground from wheels down to wheels up for more than eight hours." And so I'll fly in at 6:00 AM do a 12:30 PM, keynote and be out on a 4:00 PM flight, because if I have to stay the night in Vegas, nothing good's going to come of that.

Bobbie Rebell:
So you didn't have the ADHD diagnosis when you started HARO. Looking back, are there things that you would have done differently had you known or are you grateful and it worked out that you did not know because that way you ... you really plowed into that very quickly. You basically had the idea and just did it.

Peter Shankman:
Yeah, three hours later it was launched. I mean, I'm thrilled by the way things happened because you know, I was able to realize, "Hey, this can actually work for me." But again, that point is you have to understand how your brain works and you have to understand sort of what works for you.

Bobbie Rebell:
You don't think you would've launched HARO had you had that fear that other people have, that fear of debt?

Peter Shankman:
Probably not. And the thing about me is that a lot of my, almost everything I've done, I can trace back to my ADHD, right? The premise of, "Huh, wonder what would happen if? This morning I was doing an open water swim with a friend of mine, 5:30 in the morning outside of Coney Island.

Bobbie Rebell:
Because you get up at four in the morning every day.

Peter Shankman:
Because I get up at four in the morning, right. I actually got up at 3:30 this morning, where I'm sitting at Coney island. We're looking at the water, I say, "Oh, it's really pretty. It's really nice. I wonder where we should go? Should we just do our normal regular swim?" And I look at a light, and there's a buoy, right? I'm like, "I wonder how far that buoy is?" And my friend and I, "Oh, that's probably not that far." And you know, then there's the Morgan Freeman announcer's voice going, "In fact, it was much further," so a mile and a half later we come back from the swim, nearly dead. That's why I'd have a wonderful financial advisor, I have a wonderful accountant whose job it is, is to protect me so that I don't do these stupid things.

Bobbie Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from this? Those who have ADHD and those who know of somebody who has ADHD because that's pretty much everybody.

Peter Shankman:
It is. I think the lesson is to understand yourself first and foremost, and once you understand yourself, don't put yourself into positions where you can get into that level of trouble. It doesn't mean don't take risks, but make sure, again, they're calculated risks is a big difference between doing something for the hell of doing yeah, whatever and taking a calculated risk.

Bobbie Rebell:
And as pertains to debt?

Peter Shankman:
Most definitely there is good debt, there's great debt. You know, owning a home is a great debt, but if you're making $135,000 a year, maybe buying a 2.7 million dollar home is not necessarily the best idea in the world. I would love those shows. House Hunters. You see these two people, "Yeah, my wife has a business where she combs the knots out of street dogs and I make artisanal pencils. Our budget is four million dollars?" What?

Bobbie Rebell:
So true.

Peter Shankman:
Try to live in your own life there and understand that at the end of the day, especially with finances, at the end of the day, the race is only with yourself and it's a marathon, it's not a sprint.

Bobbie Rebell:
For people with ADHD, any specific lessons to draw regarding taking on debt? Are they? Do they need to be more careful? I know you have a lot of checks and balances in place.

Peter Shankman:
Yeah. I think one of the best lessons I've learned. Anytime I want to buy something, whether I'm online, whether it's in person, I ask myself, I stop and I visualize, "Where's this thing going to go in my apartment? Where's it going? Because I have two bedroom apartment in New York City isn't that much. Where's it going to live? Where's it going to sit? How am I going to use it? Am I going to take it out of where it is or is it going to be too much of a pain to get it back in there? And I ask all these questions. That probably prevents me from, I'd say doing probably 60% of things I want to buy.

Peter Shankman:
The other thing I do is I keep a lot of the purchasing Apps off my phone. The same reason I don't put like food Apps on my phone where you can order food because it's just too easy to order crappy food, so I keep those off and if I want to order something I have to go to my computer, get on the web, and it's actually a process. If you make it a process, it's a little bit easier not to necessarily just blindly do it.

Bobbie Rebell:
All right, Peter, your everyday money tip is all about making sure you connect with people because that's how you're ultimately going to be successful. That goes back to your PR days and all the advice you've given people. What is your everyday money tip?

Peter Shankman:
I love a website called spoonbill.io. It's S-P-O-O-N-B-I-L-L-.I-O, and what it does is it shows you anyone who has updated their Twitter bio, right? So you want to keep an eye on that because if you're looking to talk to reporters, you're looking to talk to me, you find out immediately what they've done, the "Oh look, that person just changed where they work or whatever," and then you can shoot a note. "Hey, noticed that you changed your." It's a great way to keep in touch with people without coming across as too needy or too wanting. Just take a look just say, "Hey, I noticed that you just got a new job. Congratulations."

Bobbie Rebell:
Right. It gives you a reason to keep in touch. And it can be for business, it can be for friendship, all of which helps us live richer lives. So, Peter, tell us what's going on with you for the rest of 2018 into 2019 with Faster Than Normal and all your other projects.

Peter Shankman:
Well, Fast Than Normal is my baby. It's a wonderful website and podcast where we focus on ADHD and the fact that ADHD can be a gift, not a curse as long as you know how to use it, which is what we talked about here. I run a mastermind group with sort of the same premise for some entrepreneurs, smaller to midsize entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurship is lonely and you got to have people to talk to. You have people who understand what it's like to be an entrepreneur that's at shankminds.com. And we're a great group of people that meet virtually and then a couple times a year in person. What else am I doing? A lot of fun stuff. My entire life is at shankman.com, my last name. You can find me there and my email is petershankman.com, I'm @petershankman on all the socials. I'm happy to connect with anyone. I think it's fun.

Bobbie Rebell:
Love it, and you are great at keeping in touch and if people reach out to you it's pretty likely they're going to hear back, so thank you, Peter. You're really wonderful. We appreciate you being here.

Peter Shankman:
My pleasure. Always happy to help.

Bobbie Rebell:
Hey friends, here's my take. Financial Grownup tip number one, Peter has been successful because he took things that were unique to him that might have held them back, but instead he uses them as a superpower. Find your superpower. What other people may see as a challenge may, in fact, be your biggest asset. Take a time out one of these days and just think about it. Hit pause. What traits and themes keep rising? For Peter, it was things like risk-taking and moving forward with ideas before they were fully fleshed out, but that worked in his favor usually, or he recovered or the consequences weren't that bad.

Bobbie Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip Number two, Peter talked about reaching out to people when they had a change in job status and you were notified thanks to this App, so that's a great idea. I would add to that, that it is important to keep in touch with people when something maybe not so good happens like they lose a job or face a setback. People remember that. Even just calling to let them know you're aware of what's going on and you're there for them is going to be really meaningful and remembered.

Bobbie Rebell:
Okay, my friends, we're going to wrap. I thought about advocating, doing something big like Peter going skydiving, but you know what? It's not going to happen. I got to be honest, but if Peter has inspired you to skydive, I need to hear about it, so let me know. DM me my friends on Instagram. I am @bobbibebell1, at Twitter @bobbierebell. And find out more about the show, bobbyrebell.com/financialgrownup podcasts.

Bobbie Rebell:
Show notes same pattern every time, bobbierebell/.com/podcast/the guest's name. In this case, that forward slash has Peter Shankman after it. And thanks to Peter for being a great guest. I am staying on the ground. No skydiving for me, but you did get us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbie Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Canadian rower Jeremiah Brown, author of “The 4 Year Olympian”  had a dream- to make it to the Olympics in four years- without sinking into debt. That meant downsizing, living lean, and learning how to get the most financial  support possible for his athletic ambitions. 

In Jeremiah’s money story you will learn:

-How Jeremiah funded his Olympic dream on a 4 year timetable

-Specifically how he cut his expenses despite having a young child to support

-The funding he got from the Canadian government and how the system works to support athletes

-How he estimated the funding he would need, and then worked towards that goal

- The strategy he used to negotiate extra leave from his job with TD Ameritrade

In Jeremiah’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of financial planning for the psychological well-being of athletes

-Not to defer your life dreams for fear of missing out on short term financial goals

-How to get the support of your employer for a big personal goal or project

In Jeremiah’s money tip you will learn:

-One way to save money each and every time you buy food outside the home

-How being both budget conscious and environmentally conscious can go hand in hand

In my take you will learn:

-The importance of sharing money lessons in the moment with your kids

-How asking for a little more from your employer can pay off

Episode Links

Jeremiah’s website: https://the4yearolympian.com/

Get Jeremiah’s book The 4 Year Olympian

Follow Jeremiah!

Twitter @JeremiahFBrown

Instagram: @brownjf24

LinkedIn Jeremiah Brown

Facebook The4yearOlympian

TD Ameritrade

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free out transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Jeremiah Brown:
I've seen so many athletes, it's going to be the hardest thing you do in your life, just to get to the Olympics. The last thing you need is to see yourself going into the red, accumulating debt. The psychology is already hard enough. You don't need something else like that distracting you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends, very excited about today's guest. We have our first Olympian on Financial Grownup, our first athlete overall, in fact, Jeremiah Brown. He won a silver medal as part of the Canadian rowing team at the London Olympics and wrote a book about it called The Four Year Olympian. But if you met him earlier in his life, you most likely would never have predicted that kind of achievement. At 17 he came very close, in fact, to going to prison. He was a father at 19, and there's a lot more to the story. I will let him take it from here. Here is Jeremiah Brown. Jeremiah Brown, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Jeremiah Brown:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so excited because, Jeremiah, you are the first athlete that we have had, and you are also a silver medal winner in the Olympics, so congratulations on that.

Jeremiah Brown:
Thank you, I'm honored to bring maybe a different perspective.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, well you're also out with an amazing book, The Four Year Olympian, which is talking about how you got there in just four years, and it's a story of perseverance and grit and determination, but also, financial planning, which is part of why I wanted to have you on the podcast. Tell us your money story and how that helped you become an Olympic silver medalist.

Jeremiah Brown:
Yeah, let me set the scene for you. I was 23 years old. I was in my first job at a bank as an analyst. I had this dream to go to the Olympics, and I had this problem of how I was going to fund that dream. I also had a young son at the time, I started early in life, and I was thinking, "How am I going to pay for his daycare?" Which was $800 a month. You know, my housing costs, which at the time I was renting a nice house at this lake in Victoria, in British Columbia, Canada. That was costing me, I think, $1500 a month. So I had this cost of living that I needed to ratchet down if I was going to be able to figure out how to fund my Olympic dream.

Jeremiah Brown:
So what did I end up doing? Well, I saved every penny of my disposable income for a full year from my job. I moved from that expensive rental into a really small condo, it was 500 square feet, so it was pretty tight for ...

Bobbi Rebell:
With your son?

Jeremiah Brown:
Yeah, with my son and his mom, there were three of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow!

Jeremiah Brown:
We were in this shoebox condo. But eventually I got, like my housing cost was down to about $600 a month. Then I was able to make it work just to train that first full year with the national team before I was able to get the federal funding that really only brought me up to $18000 a year, but it was able to cover my basic costs.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Canada has some funding for athletes? Just tell us briefly, explain that.

Jeremiah Brown:
Yeah, so Canada, once you get to the senior national team level and you're competing internationally in your sport, if it's an Olympic sport, the federal government will give you, it's called carding, it's a monthly stipend. When I was competing it was $1500 a month was the most you could get. It's very similar to the US. They have different amounts down there, but it's a similar kind of system.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you had four years, which goes to your book, four years to get to the Olympics. How much would you say you invested in preparing for the Olympics? What does it cost to get to the Olympics starting basically from scratch?

Jeremiah Brown:
It depends on how you do it. So for me, I knew I was going to need about $12000 of my own money to cover the shortfall in the first year. So when I first started I was going to get a little bit of funding from the government, I knew that, it was called development funding. Then the whole plan hinged on me performing better and better over time and getting up to that higher level of funding. So I was able to come through this without any debt and with expenses of each of those years of about, I'd say, between $25000 and $30000 of core living expenses. Then the team covered the travel and they provided some of the training, and some of the other expenses were already covered. So I just lived lean, and luckily as an athlete you're training so much that you're not spending a lot of money either.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and it's also psychological, it's important psychologically that you not be stressed out about money.

Jeremiah Brown:
It's huge. I've seen so many athletes who, it's going to be the hardest thing you do in your life anyways, just to try to get to the Olympics, and the last thing you need is to see yourself going into the red accumulating debt. The psychology is already hard enough, you don't need something else like that distracting you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us more about the lesson here for people, for our listeners who have goals that they want to reach, especially when there's a very finite timeline, I mean, it was four years, that was it, there was a definite structure to this. It wasn't like you just wanted to go on forever. You wanted to reach this goal.

Jeremiah Brown:
I'm like you, Bobbi, and probably a lot of your listeners in that I think of myself as trying to be financially responsible, and I was thinking of my longterm plan, and what was my retirement horizon, and how much did I need to invest and all that. But I think sometimes when we get in this rut of totally deferring everything and becoming a slave to this sense of financial responsibility, and I think, I guess my lesson for the listeners is that you can do these, you can chase these personal dreams without it totally destroying your financial plan. I'm back on track to where I was pre-games. I think if you have a well planned strategy and you're willing to invest in yourself at any stage of life, it's something you're not going to regret.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the reaction when you kind of left your job and said, "This is what I'm going to do."

Jeremiah Brown:
Well, it's funny, when you try to do this, like when you're chasing incredible goals, in fact, people around you all rally around you. The bank actually supported me, they said, "Okay, you can take a leave of absence." I ended up taking, I think it was a record for this bank, it's TD Bank, one of the biggest banks in Canada, and I think I ended up being on a leave of absence for 18 months, and the policy was up to six months, so they were really behind me and they actually supported what I wanted to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, congratulations so much, it's so exciting, and I love the fact that you actually came back with a medal, because sometimes people invest so much and unfortunately they don't turn out as well as your dreams did. So I just wanted to make sure to really congratulate you, it's just amazing. And congratulations on your book, we're going to talk more about that in one sec. I want to get your money tip though, because you talked about your young son, your son is now 12 years old, tell us your money tip because it has to do with when you're out with your son.

Jeremiah Brown:
All right, so my son and I, you know, we travel quite a bit for his sports.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is he a rower also?

Jeremiah Brown:
Well, not yet. But he's playing basketball, he's on the city basketball team for his age group. So we're going to tournaments a lot, we're traveling for his sports, and yeah, we need to stop and we need to eat while we're on the road. One of the ways I try to teach him and save money is to just ask for a cup of water at the restaurant, whether it's a fast food place or anywhere, just say, "Can I just have a glass of tap water?" Maybe it's a little embarrassing for him, but it's just trying to teach him that you can save incrementally here and there and that's a good place to do it. Don't buy the $4 or $5 fountain pop, just get a cup of water, it's free, and enjoy your meal. And healthier and better for the environment.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a really good point, I'm glad you said that, because all of those plastic bottles are very bad for our environment, and sometimes they can even give it to you in a glass, not a disposable cup, which is even better. So it's important to save money and save the environment. Tell me more now about The Four Year Olympian, your new book.

Jeremiah Brown:
Okay, so this book, it's The Four Year Olympian, and it took me five years to write the book about the story.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, wait, wait, it took you longer to write the book about your four year journey to the Olympics than it did to get to the Olympics?

Jeremiah Brown:
It did. It was the second hardest thing I've done in my life, and it was just difficult in a different way, it's sort of an intellectual kind of masochism as opposed to just a brutal physical and mental effort. So it's essentially a memoir from when I became a young father at the age of 19 and I was faced with this, to me it felt like a predictable path in life, and I still felt like I had potential as an athlete. I went and chased this dream, and really the book is an exposition on overcoming self doubt, and what happens when you enslave yourself to a goal, like I did.

Bobbi Rebell:
You allude to struggle there, I know you were a young father, it sounds like it was unexpected, what other struggles did you have earlier in life?

Jeremiah Brown:
Well, I got into a little bit of trouble when I was 17. I guess I technically was a juvenile delinquent. I took a prank too far in high school and I was actually facing some prison time. I had to go through this court process. What I did was I actually, I stole some pittas from a Pita Pit delivery person with a friend, and we thought it was just going to be something we could laugh off. But I ended up going through this whole process of facing actual prison time, and it was a really pivotal time in my life where I thought, "Geez, you know, I'm a good kid, I just screwed up, and this is not who I am." So I came out of that with a bit of a chip on my shoulder and I wanted to prove to myself and to others, you know, as a young man back then, I just wanted to show that I had way more potential than sort of the reputation that I'd gained after that slip-up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you have certainly proven yourself, Jeremiah, we are so happy for you and so excited to read more about your journey in your book, The Four Year Olympian, where else can people follow you and learn more about you and all of your current successes and your future successes? Because we're so excited to see what you do next.

Jeremiah Brown:
The best place people can find me is going to the book website: the4yearolympian.com, that's with a numeral 4, and you can find me there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful, and on social media?

Jeremiah Brown:
I'm on Twitter, @JeremiahFBrown, and I'm on Instagram, just started, I'm working on it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Baby steps, it's okay.

Jeremiah Brown:
That's BrownJF24.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your story and being a part of Financial Grownup. We really loved having you.

Jeremiah Brown:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jeremiah was able to focus on his training because he had a financial plan in place, and he is right, for athletes or anyone working intensely towards a goal, financial stress is one distraction you don't want to be fighting up against. Financial Grownup tip number one: don't be so quick to quit your job to live your dream if you can avoid it. Jeremiah took a leave of absence, and because he had been a strong employee and was valued by his company, because he got them on board and they were with the program, he was able to take a much longer leave of absence than was in their official corporate policy. He knew he had something to go back to when he needed it if he wanted. Don't assume your employer will stick to the exact policy and won't give you more if you ask. Ask, the worst they could say is no. But having their support and having the financial security of knowing you have a job to go back to, if you want to try something like going for the Olympics, is going to be priceless.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: don't keep your money saving tips to yourself, including your kids. Jeremiah's tip about asking for a cup of tap water instead of buying soda or bottled water was spot on. But even better was the fact that he was teaching his 12-year-old son painless ways to save money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great episode from Jeremiah. Don't forget to pick up his book, The Four Year Olympian. It is brutally honest and will really take you into what it takes to reach the podium at the Olympics or achieve any big dream that maybe seems impossible at the time. Hit the subscribe button if you have not already and be in touch on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook my author page is Bobbi Rebell. And if you want to be a guest on the show, a reminder, we are going to start having listener episodes once a month. Send us your money story and your money tip that you would share, to: info@financialgrownup.com to be considered. I hope you all enjoyed Olympic silver medalist, Jeremiah Brown's story, and that we all got one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.