Bobbi Rebell:
Fran Hauser became a financial grownup very young, helping her immigrant parents build their businesses by doing the books and serving as a liaison to clients as early as 1st grade. The author of “The Myth of the Nice Girl, Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate” now applies those early life lessons to her search for startup investment opportunities.
Fran’s money story:
Fran Hauser:
Yes. So my parents are Italian immigrants who moved to Mount Kisco, as you said, and like many immigrants it took a lot of courage to make this move. They were uneducated, they didn't speak the language, and they were moving to a place that was completely foreign to them. What each of my parents did have though, was a skill. So my father was a stonemason, my mother was really good at sewing, so they both started small businesses. My dad a stonemeasonry business, and my mom opened up a tailoring shop with her best friend. Being the oldest of four, they needed my help, especially when it came to communication. So when I was in first grade I was preparing all of my dad's invoices. One memory that I have is I could only add at that point in time, I couldn't multiply yet, so my aunt actually created a sales tax chart for me, so that if the monthly maintenance was $300, I could see exactly what the sales tax was, and then just add the two numbers together.
Fran Hauser:
So that was first grade, and then even in middle school I was helping my mother with marketing. So helping her come up with a logo, and getting different marketing and sales materials printed. So I got exposed to business at a very young age, and even understanding things like revenue, and expense, cashflow, you know seeing that when more cash comes in than goes out, decisions that need to be made around what to do with that extra money. It was really interested watching my dad because he took some calculated risks and invested in both commercial and residential real estate, which proved to be fruitful. I would say at a very, very, very young age I played this role of bookkeeper/marketer/general manager.
Fran Hauser:
Another vivid memory I have that I'll just share with you is when my father was asked to go look at a job, a potential client, and give them an estimate, he wasn't able to understand the directions to actually get to the house. So I would listen in on another phone and write down the directions, and then I would go in the car with him and we would actually drive to the residence together, and then I would get out and I would basically be the translator for him. So that was my childhood, pretty unconventional.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Very unconventional. How did you assume this role? Were there specific deliberate conversations, or did it just evolve organically as you grew up in the household?
Fran Hauser:
It really evolved organically, because I was the oldest. Really, these things just fell on me. It made sense, if something was broken, even in the house, and needed to be repaired, I would be the one to call the plumber or the contractor, and at the time it felt really hard. It was frustrating, for sure, at times because I just felt so different from all of my "American" friends, who were doing sleepovers and play dates, and I had so much more responsibility. Obviously, looking back, it was actually such an incredible experience, because I learned so much, not just about business but also about risk taking. Watching my parents, who had so much going against them, they were at such a disadvantage, but they were still able to take these risks. Whether it was building these businesses, or investing in real estate, and if you look at my career, I've taken many risks in my career. I've reinvented myself several times. I left Coca-Cola and the late nineties to go to an early stage internet company, Movie Phone. Or five years ago, I left a really comfortable job at Time Inc. to move into startup investing.
Fran Hauser:
So I haven't been afraid to take risks, and I think a lot of that comes from seeing how disadvantaged my parents were, and feeling like if they could take risks, I should be able to.
Bobbi Rebell:
I wanted to ask you, so you mentioned, and I was going to bring this up, that you now are a startup investor. How did this background in business and understanding risks, and understanding strategy and marketing, and even just the basic economics of business, how does that inform your approach as an investor now?
Fran Hauser:
So I think in a lot of ways. For starters, when I'm evaluating the entrepreneurs I'm looking at them and I'm saying, "Do they have the capacity to take risks? Will they jump in with both feet?" And I'm also looking at what kind of mindset do they have? Are they optimistic? I always felt like my parents approached every single venture with such optimism, and with an abundance mindset, and treating people kindly and with respect. So those are things that I really look for in an entrepreneur, and then the other side of it is the brass tactics operational side, which is I feel like I'm really good at looking at financials and understanding what the risks are, really getting nitpicky when it comes to the assumptions that are being used. So I feel like I can look at a PnL pretty quickly, and projected cashflows, and all that good stuff, and I'm just co comfortable. I'm so comfortable with numbers, and I'm so comfortable with looking at forecasts and really trying to make sense of it, and also understanding is there a there there?
Fran Hauser:
The other part too, I would say, is just understanding markets, understanding consumers. I think that also comes from just having spent so much time with my parents clients. So it's impacted me as an investor in so many different ways.
Fran’s Money Lesson:
I would say the lesson is to not be afraid to take risks, and when you do so, really approach it with a mindset of abundance and optimism, and don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to go all in and to jump in with both feet, and then also the last thing I would say, which really ties back to the book, is to treat people with kindness and respect, because I think you look at my parents who barely spoke a word of english, and they were still able to communicate through a lot of nonverbal cues, and a lot of that had to do with being charming, and being kind, and that will take you far.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because the book is really all about being nice, but in a strategic and smart way.
Fran Hauser:
Yes, being nice in a way where you're not a pushover, and you're not veering into people pleasing territory. It's really about how you can be both nice and strong. Those two things are not mutually exclusive, and that you bring both of those into virtually any situation at work.
Fran’s Everyday Money Tip:
Yeah, I love this. So what we do in my house is, instead of a normal piggy bank, we collect coins in a five gallon water jug. The kids love it because it's so much bigger than a piggy bank, and it's clear, so you can see the progress. The last time we cashed it in the coins were worth $4000, and it took us several years to fill it up, but it's just a really fun way to teach your kids about saving and about goals.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you cash it in, what's that experience like? Is it one of the machines, or do you bring it to a bank?
Fran Hauser:
It's actually hysterical because it's so heavy, so what you have to do is we put duct tape over the top of it to close it, and then we literally roll it-
Financial Grownup tip number one
one thing that Fran talks about in The Myth of the Nice Girl is the importance of how things are presented, the tone that you use in your voice. So you can be firm, and not be a pushover, and still be nice. Think about the way that you say things.
Financial Grownup tip number two
don't say sorry so much. Try replacing it with "Thank you." Fran points out that many women apologize of things that not only were not their fault, but also they aren't really sorry about. For example, not being able to attend an event. She would often apologize for declining an invitation, instead, she advises to simply say, "Thank you for the invitation." And say that you will not be able to attend.
Episode Links:
Fran’s website - Franhauser.com
Fran’s book - The Myth of the Nice Girl
Follow Fran!
instagram - @fran_hauser
twitter - @fran_hauser
Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.
Entrepreneur and Investor Barbara Corcoran explains why she believes spending money in a deliberate way even before you earn it is a smart business strategy, and shares the story of her first really big investment. And yes, she committed to it before she had the money.
In Barbara’s money story you will learn:
-How she bought her first house at age 29 (which had 8 bedrooms!)
-The importance of discussing big purchases with a significant other
-How Barbara saved $7,500 in three months
In Barbara’s money lesson you will learn:
-How she motivates herself to save money
-Why she chooses to ignore rational and take risks
-Her advice on committing to a goal
In Barbara’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-Why she spends money before she has it
-How she puts herself under pressure in order to produce financial results
In My Take you will learn:
-Why it's always good to listen to different opinions and take advice from successful people
-Two negotiation tips that will save you money and help your career
Bobbi and Barbara also talk about:
-Chef Boyardee and Ramen noodles, the quick dinner that helped save Barbara money and reminded Bobbi of her childhood
EPISODE LINKS:
Listen to Barbara Corcoran's podcast Business Unusual here, and on iTunes
Watch Barbara give more business advice on the multi-Emmy award winning show Shark Tank on ABC
Follow Barbara!
Twitter: @BarbaraCorcoran
Instagram: @BarbaraCorcoran
Facebook: @TheBarbaraCorcoran
Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.
Transcription
Barbara Corcoran:
I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I start spending it even before it arrives.
Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, my Financial Grownup friends, brace yourself Barbara Corcoran is here and she is going to give it to us straight up, no beating around the bush and she said some things that frankly I was pretty surprised with. They go against almost everything that I've been taught about building a solid financial foundation for your life, for your business, but she made it work. I'm still not sure I could make it work for me, but I'm thinking about it because she makes a good case and I'm interested to hear what you guys think after you hear her interview.
Bobbi Rebell:
So glad you are here. As I said, this episode is a really big one, so if you're new, you're joining it a really good time. We do something by the way called flex time for podcast, the episodes are kept pretty short, around 15 minutes. The idea is no excuses you can always fit it in, make it easy for you while you're running a quick errand, what have you, but if you have a longer commute, you can also stack them. We have a library now of more than a hundred episodes so you can listen to a few on your commute if that's what worked for you. Make sure that when you subscribe and hopefully you are subscribing, we really need the support that you set the downloads, go into the manual settings and set it so that you automatically get the downloads so that you don't miss any and you're good to go.
Bobbi Rebell:
And we love automation because that way things just happen and it's one less thing to remember. Alright, let's get to Barbara Corcoran and you know her from Shark Tank and now she has a new podcast called Business Unusual, also really short, so that's a good thing. She gives a lot of advice that seems shocking until you listen to it and listen to her reasons and then think that is part of how Barbara Corcoran is successful. It's the unusual. She approaches things in a different way from the way that we're always used to approaching it and it works for her. It may not work for you. The big takeaway from this episode, which you'll see I'm going to talk about after her interview. I don't know if I could do it, but I can see how it worked for her. So with that, here is Shark Tank's Barbara Corcoran.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Barbara Corcoran you're at Financial Grownup welcome to the podcast.
Barbara Corcoran:
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of your new podcast. For many reasons, of course also because it's a short podcast, but you have the best wisdom and you share so many lessons from your life, so thank you for that.
Barbara Corcora:
My pleasure. I enjoy doing it, but it's a scary proposition as I'm sure you will know, you have to earn people's ears while you're talking to them.
Bobbi Rebell:
You do, well you've been earning it for many years and you're going to share a money story from early in your life, your very first real estate purchase or I should say your first house and it sounds like it's going to be a story, but there's something that happened that I think people want to hear. Go for it.
Barbara Corcoran:
Yeah, and it has a valuable lesson. When I committed to purchasing my first home with my first husband. I was about 29 years old. I didn't have a pot to pee in as they say, but we sat across the dinner table for a man who said he was selling a certain house that was like a magical house from what I heard, and my mouth said, I'll take it. And why it was magical. It was a house that anybody would think you could only dream about, which was a house with eight bedrooms two guest cottages, a wet and a dry boat house facing a brand new lake.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did you have kids at this point, Barbara?
Barbara Corcoran:
No, of course not.
Bobbi Rebell:
Who was moving into this mansion?
Barbara Corcoran:
Listen, I figured I'd have fun with friends, but I had no rights saying we'll take it to which my husband was more startled than I was over my own mouth. Because we didn't have a dime to our name, we were struggling to just meet our bills. We're still kind of kids coming up the ranks, but-
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so tell me what happened. How did you buy the house?
Barbara Corcoran:
Once I said we'd buy the house, we had the problem of coming up with the down payment, 7,500. And so my husband and I started eating tomato noodles every night that I think they're chef Boyardee or something in a can and bring them lunch every day and we saved every penny of what we were earning in our lives, short of the rent we had to pay for our studio apartment. Well, three months hence we had most of the down payment but not quite and we're out for dinner with the same big boss of his and he mentioned that his father, he wanted to close, which was putting ... Was scaring me to death because I still didn't have enough money.
Barbara Corcoran:
But he said his father was reluctant to leave the house and I volunteered. Well, why don't you let your father stay there, but in trade for that, I got four months extra time. So we were able to save the down payment of $7,500. No problem. But when we got to the closing, the closing costs too, which I didn't have, but he was so in dear to us for keeping his elderly dad in the house that he paid for the closing costs for us. And we moved into that beautiful house and we had it for seven years until I decided to leave my husband and he got the house.
Bobbi Rebell:
Why did that happen? How did you let that happen?
Barbara Corcoran:
You know why? Because I got the apartment in the city by then we had bought a one bedroom apartment in the city and I sold that one bedroom that I paid $80,000 for two years later for 250. And he sold that house that we had paid $75,000 for two years after our divorce for $75,000.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners?
Barbara Corcoran:
I'm a believer in always committing throwing it out there and say I'm going to do it. Because when you have that kind of pressure and you've publicly committed, you find a way to get there. If you can commit to something, you'll find a way of getting there. If I had said, give me a couple of months, let me see if I could save for the house, believe me, my rational side would have kicked in and said, what are you doing? But because I said I would, I found a way that could do it and that's the truth, and most people are better than they think. If they're willing to be courageous enough to state it as low as fact and then make it happen versus the other way around.
Bobbi Rebell:
And eat a lot of canned noodles.
Barbara Corcoran:
Oh yeah,[inaudible 00:06:40] Yeah, you can do anything if you know it's temporary.
Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us your everyday money tip because this is also a real Barber tip because this is something that works for you may not work for other people, but it is a strategy that people might want to consider. Again, for you it works it may not be for everyone. Go for it.
Barbara Corcoran:
It's a particularly good strategy if you're out to those your own business, and I'll tell you why. My strategy is this. I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I started spending it even before it arrives. The reason for that is I have no choice but to actually make it happen whatever I'm doing. Because I know I've already committed the money. It's like putting a gun to your own head where you have to produce. If instead you wait for the money to come in and then say, okay, I've got this little extra cash. We've had a profit this month. Let's see the best use of it. That sounds rational, but I'm telling you the fever with which you attacked the best use of it is nothing compared to knowing that the bank is going to come in and chop your head off if you don't produce.
Barbara Corcoran:
So. I've always consistently put myself under pressure by spending money long before I have it and I've never let myself down. There's something magical that happens in the universe when you really under fire when you have no choice that you find a way to get there, and so I'm a big spender and on top of that I can also say, although I was born a poor kid and have my thousand dollar loan from my boyfriend, thank God, or we have been able to quit my waitress job and starting a business nowhere. Okay.
Barbara Corcoran:
But once I had that thousand dollars, I just thought, you know what? This is found money. It's a gift from God and I'm just gonna run this thing up the flag pole until somebody stops me and my most assured policy of making sure no one stopped me was to spend money in advance of having it because I had no choice but to make good on it. I had no choice and ran like a devil with a limited timeframe and I was able to accomplish 10 times more than all my competitors simply because of the pressure I had put on my own back. All right, so it's not what you read in accounting book, but I can tell you when you're building a business, it's a smarter way to go than to be calculated and do it a step at a time.
Bobbi Rebell:
It's the real world. One other quick question though, did you ever have trouble and how did you handle it collecting those receivables?
Barbara Corcoran:
No, I wrote off about 10% of my receivables because you have to appreciate. My business was selling co-ops in New York City and we had about 10% of our deals that didn't approve the Co-op association. They were turned down by the board, so I knew what that average was the first year, by the typical may be the second year in business, I realized I lost 10% of my deals, so I just wrote off that 10%. So that was realistic in suddenly a good accountant would do, but that's where my relationship or any resemblance to an accountant definitely ended in my attitude to it and everything else.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. I want to talk quickly about your, still relatively new podcast even though who would know it because it's always at the top of the charts where to I'm trying to climb, but you're there and that's a lot because your podcast is so good. It is a short one, so dear to my heart, but you also really deliver personal and as you have here very honest and straightforward advice about your life and the lessons that you have learned and your bold with it. Your most recent episode talked about quitting jobs. You quit 22 jobs Barbara, you also talk about negotiation skills. Tell me more about this podcast and why it is so different and people are really responding to it?
Barbara Corcoran:
I think people are responding well simply because I tell it like it is. And it doesn't mean if it's the person listening, but I think they leave trusting that they heard the truth and I also think I'm impatient by nature. So if you're gonna ask me what about negotiation? Most people can write a book on that. I can't. I can tell you in eight minutes flat, what the key to negotiation, what are the key moves and what doesn't work. And really I don't have more to say after the eight minutes. So I think because I have such a short attention span and because I'm so impatient by nature myself and listening, I want to know what you want out of me and what do I gotta do. And that's pretty much how I am with everybody. Get to the point and then tell me how you get there.
Barbara Corcoran:
So I do get to the point and then tell you how I get there and then the eight minutes are up and I'm signing off. I wish I was more verbose and had more great delicious detail, but I just say the main things that worked for me and I leave it at that and my sign off until the following week. So I hope it works. We'll see. It's very scary as I'm sure you know, to merit someone's eight minutes. I feel it's such an abuse or a trust that I feel like every word has to really, really count or I have no business doing its own. I'm Mostly scared, I'm scared to six days. Then I do the podcast, then I get scared all over again.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well you're doing a great job. I don't find you scary at all. I love it. I think you're worth investing every one of those eight minutes, so thank you for all that you do. Everyone knows where to find you, but just in case because I ask everyone, tell us where you can be found, where people can follow you on social and what else is important that's going on in your life that we should know about.
Barbara Corcoran:
Well, of course it's a Business Unusual, which is the podcast, my newest baby, but as usual, any social platform @BarbaraCorcoran is very easy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you Barbara.
Barbara Corcoran:
I love you back. Bobbi. Thank you so much. And Go back to your real name, Barbara, it's such a pretty name.
Bobbi Rebell:
So if you're like me, you want to hit rewind and listen again. She's that good. And before I get to the financial bonus tips, just want to make a little comment about the food because we spend so much time agonizing over all of this organic fancy food and when we're saving money, everyone talks about the ramen noodles. I want to talk to you about the chef Boyardee that she and her husband were eating to save up money because you know what, that's fun childhood memories for me. My mom was a working mom and you know what? Sometimes we have something called spaghettios. Do you guys even know what that is? It's basically this like circle pasta in a can and tomato sauce and it's delicious. It may not have any nutrition, but if you see spaghettios in the store, I have no affiliation with them. Pick them up and try them instead of ramen noodles if you're trying to save money.
Bobbi Rebell:
Just for variety, be a little bit bad. Like I said, they're probably not nutritious at all. All right, let's talk about my tips. Finance grownup tip number one. Sometimes financial advice like Barbra's goes against common stereotypical things that we hear. Here's the thing though, always listen to different opinions especially when they're from someone like Barbara Corcoran who has been so successful in so many different fields, to not only real estate where she started out, but also now with Shark Tank. She's an entrepreneur investing in so many different companies, so listen to her and give it some thought. Now I'm not telling you to go out and spend money that you don't have or even to spend on receivables, which is really what she was doing. It was money that she had contracts for but had not yet received so she believed that money was coming, but I see her point and I also see how that can create a really strong motivation so before totally rejecting it or even accepting it, play out how that would work for you.
Bobbi Rebell:
How are you going to cover things for example, if someone does not pay or if they pay, but they are on a delayed schedule so they're not paying in 30 days like your bill says they're paying 60, 90, 100, 20 days out. How are you going to finance that? You have a line of credit with your business. Are you throwing that on a credit card where you might be paying interest, late fees? What have you, factor that in. Are you going to charge a late fee to them? Barbara factored in that 10% of her expected commissions receivables were not going to happen so even she was doing that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, be creative and flexible. When you're negotiating. Barbara, let the sellers elderly dad stay in the house longer than originally planned. Again, you have to give Barbara props for being open minded and in return by the way, she got precious time and the goodwill was so strong and her gesture was still appreciated that the closing costs were paid by the seller.
Bobbi Rebell:
That is huge. Thank you all for being part of the Financial Grownup community. We bring this to you for free. The only payment we ask is that you share it with someone that you care about and that you believe would enjoy and benefit from the podcast. Your reviews and your feedback. I'm just going to tell you guys straight up there is really important. I read everyone, we don't get as many as I would like. There aren't that many there and I know a lot of you are out there. A lot of you are DMing me, which is actually really great. Still DM me, gave me the feedback, but if you can also leave reviews on Apple podcasts, that is also really helpful to get the show notice because that's how people discover the show.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you do want to also be in touch on social media, it's not either or guys. Follow me and DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1 that's the number one on twitter I'm @BobbyRebel and on Facebook, Bobbi Rebell as well. And big things of course to the amazing Barbara Corcoran, the ultimate Financial Grownup. Everyone check out her podcast Business Unusual and watch her on Shark Tank and thank you Barbara Corcoran for getting us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.
Financial Grownup podcast host Bobbi Rebell shares some changes happening at the podcast and answers listener questions about the guests, how the show is produced and how listeners can get involved in future episodes.
To send in questions for Listener Q&A episodes- or to suggest a guest co-host email us at:
Hello@FinancialGrownup.com
or DM on all the socials:
Instagram @bobbirebell1
Twitter @bobbirebell
In Frazer’s money story you will learn:
-How to calculate how much money to save before quitting a job
-How to know whether you should to tell your employer about a side hustle
In Frazer’s money lesson you will learn:
-What are the factors that determine how much time and money goes into building a business
-Different ways to to save money before investing full-time in a personal company
In Frazer’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-Examples of creative ways to teach kids about giving to their community
-Specific ways, including games, that encourage cooperation between kids on money decisions
In My Take you will learn:
-Why it's ok to keep secrets at work
-Ways to consistently give to charity
Bobbi and Frazer also talk about:
-How to find out what it actually costs to live your life.
EPISODE LINKS:
Buy Frazer's book Wealth Actually
Check out the Wealth Actually podcast here!
Visit Frazer Rice’s website.
Follow Frazer
Instagram: @Frazer.Rice
Twitter: @FrazerRice
Linked In @Frazer Rice
Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.
Transcription
Frazier:
I did not tell my employer because I didn't feel like they were going to be very supportive of me thinking about the name on the back of the jersey as opposed to the name on the front.
Bobbi:
You're listening to Financial Grown-up with me, certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be A Financial Grown-up. And you know what, being a grown-up is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown-up, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi:
Hey financial grown-up friends. Have you ever kept a secret from your boss? Like maybe you were about to quit? More on how our guest pulled that off in just a minute but first just a quick welcome to everyone. As our regulars know, we keep the podcast short, around 15 minutes, because you're busy but if you have a little more time of course, feel free to binge a little, flex time for podcasts, and I need to ask this, please. This podcast is free. We've done over a hundred episodes. The only payment that we ask is that you help us grow the show and the way you do that is by telling friends and encouraging them to listen and maybe even show them how to listen to a podcast. Don't assume that they even know. And of course bonus points if you can leave a review and a rating with Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen.
Bobbi:
Alright let's get to our guest now. Wealth Actually author, Frazer Rice is a wealth manager, who just wasn't that into wealth management but he kept his other ambitions a secret from his bosses while he worked on gearing up his new business. The big challenge? Figuring out how much he, meaning how much Frazier cost? And he's going to help us figure out how much we cost. We're going to do the math on ourselves as well. Here is Wealth Actually author Frazier Rice.
Bobbi:
Hey Frazier Rice, you are a financial grown-up. I'm so excited you're on the podcast.
Frazier:
Bobbi, thanks for having me on. This is a real treat.
Bobbi:
Congratulations on your book Wealth Actually. Now this is the subtitle: Intelligent Decision Making for the 1%. And before anyone gets the rolling eyes or anything, this is an important book. Because we talk a lot on this show about making money and paying off debt and all those things to get there. But once you're there, you wanna stay and you wanna grow. That's why I was so excited to get you on. So welcome and congratulations.
Frazier:
Well thank you and it's one of those things where the subtitle with the 1% part I wrote about what I knew. It was my day job to help people.
Bobbi:
Because you're a wealth advisor.
Frazier:
That's right. Make financial transitions and I think a lot of the lessons that are applicable to them, apply to other people as well.
Bobbi:
Absolutely and it's also really important from a family perspective because, and we'll talk more about the book after your money story, but a lot of wealth disappears after three generations. And if you're out there working your heart out to build a financially stable future for your family and your kids, the last thing you want is for it not to last.
Frazier:
And not only that, one of the things people really worry about and are concerned about is leaving a legacy. And what I tried to do with the book is take a look at a lot of a different issues that can attack that and that can frustrate people and the legacy they want to leave. Not only that but sort of helping them raise kids in a way they think will be productive going forward.
Bobbi:
Exactly. So let's talk about you first. Because you brought with you a money story that is happening right now.
Frazier:
It sure is.
Bobbi:
This book and by the way your podcast, which is being rebranded as Wealth Actually, is part of it and so much more. But it hasn't been, we joked just before we started recording that overnight successes, you know, take years to build. That's kind of what's happening to you. You've put a lot into this. Tell us your money story.
Frazier:
No question about it. So I was wealth manager for Wilmington Trust for almost 16 years and so what I did was take care of clients, and go out and find new ones. I came to the conclusion probably about two years ago, where I said, you know I want to be doing something different, I wanted to build more equity in my own brand, and I wanted to have something that was mine in a sense, I'm age 45 now, I wanted to look back when I'm 55, 65, etc. and say this is something I built and that I own.
Frazier:
One of the areas I'm particularly interested in is certainly in the media side of things. I had a radio show in high school and a TV show in college and I do a lot of different writing on the side, screen plays and I have a graphic novel coming out hopefully at the end of the year.
Bobbi:
You're busy, Frazier.
Frazier:
Yeah, no rocks gather moss with me I guess. But anyway I came to the conclusion at one point, I said, you know what, I think I've got something here. I started writing a book about my wealth management experiences and the way I think about it. And I started that in the beginning of 2017 and it was ready to go at the end of 2017. And my money story I guess, is I was looking forward. I said, you know what, I need to build some padding, or some bandwidth around my financial situation so I can really give this a go. I did not tell my employer because I didn't feel like they were going to be very supportive of me thinking about the name on the back of jersey as opposed to the name on the front. And also the idea of conveying media and marketing that I don't think trust companies or banks understand very well.
Frazier:
With that in mind, I said okay, I'm probably going to have to leave and walk out the door and be on my own fairly abruptly. I basically took a year of income as my goal and just said I'm going to be spending money on doing lots of other things to try to get the book ramped up, to try to get the podcast ramped up and a variety of other projects. So take a year of income, take a quarter off of that and that's nine months of expenses and that's probably a pretty good way of going about it.
Bobbi:
And where was the money going to go specifically to do those things? What's involved in launching something like this?
Frazier:
Sure. So from a book perspective, I basically set aside 40,000 dollars to get the book written and for marketing costs. From a podcast perspective I would say it's probably about 12,000 dollars a year in terms of getting the thing produced and also marketing it accordingly.
Bobbi:
How are you marketing it? What marketing costs specifically?
Frazier:
Well the marketing costs essentially are me both from a public relations standpoint, getting it out and having articles written and so on but also me going to conferences and getting the word out that way. I haven't really delved too deeply into direct marketing as it relates to you know maybe Facebook ads or something like that [crosstalk 00:06:30].
Bobbi:
What conferences do you attend?
Frazier:
Well the latest one that's interesting is ThinCon, but also Trust in the States conferences, financial services conferences, investing conferences, that type of thing, which I think lends well to the book, which targets not only the wealthy people or you know people who aspire to be wealthy or have various issues that they'd like to deal with but also the advisors around them. So when I wrote the book I kind of had in mind the idea of targeting not only the people who had money but also the people who advise around it, on the theory that if they liked it, maybe they have 12 people that they'd like to buy it and give it to.
Bobbi:
That's so smart because the idea of educating yourself about money is really becoming much more mainstream and a lot of attention goes to young people paying off student debt, as it should, but more attention I think as millennials grow up and get older is going to and as the other generations obviously also get older, is going to go the management of wealth because you do get past a point we hope where you're focused more on offense rather than just digging out of the hole. And that's a great thing because people need this kind of book.
Frazier:
No question about it. And one of the things I heard from a different advisor which I didn't really speak to in the book too closely but that I really believe in is the idea of funding your retirement as much as possible ahead of time. Because it's something you will do. You will be out of the work force at some point later in your life and you need to fund those years from age 65 or 70 on and if you don't do it early and use the power of compounding in your favor, you're not going to have as nice a retirement as you would have liked.
Bobbi:
So what is your takeaway for the listeners from your money story? From building this business?
Frazier:
I think the big takeaway is pre fund as many expenses as possible and be prepared for the idea that it takes time to build a business. It takes time to build a brand. You're going to have setbacks and to the extent that you can save up and have that at hand, I sleep better at night knowing that I'm not quite sure you know, if I don't know necessarily what my career's going to turn as out as a result of these moves, at the very least I'm not dipping into savings to fund current daily expenses.
Bobbi:
Let's talk about your every day money tip. You have a lot of exercises that people can do and this is one that I think is really valuable because as people start to become more successful financially they do want to be able to give to philanthropy.
Frazier:
If you had three kids and four dollars to give away, I would suggest that each of the kids be able to give a dollar away in the manner in which they choose. This is interesting for a couple of reasons. The first one, is you know it sort of gives them the idea that you know there's a good reason to be giving money away and it helps to further social causes. But from a parent's perspective I think one thing that's nice is that you get to see what is important to kids. And it's a nice data point that you can look at as you're raising your kids and you can see how they think about things.
Frazier:
The second part of that, I said you had four dollars and you know three of it is given away. That fourth dollar I think an interesting exercise is to have the three kids decide amongst themselves how to give away that fourth dollar. And I think that's interesting and a good exercise for one major reason, is that it gets them to be making decisions together. One of the things that I preach in the book is there are a lot of different threats to wealth, one of which is that family members very often their first experience dealing with wealth is when one of, either the mother or the father dies and they're making decisions about big money late in the game and a lot of emotion can come into play.
Frazier:
By using this shared philanthropy experience you get kids making decisions about money and learning about what's important to each other, ultimately going forward. And it's a very small thing, it can be done with very small dollars and it can be done by anybody, not just the 1%. But I think it's a nice little communication tool that transfers values but also builds communication skills and also allows kids to understand what they're strengths and weaknesses are before they have to settle on the state.
Bobbi:
Great idea. I think that's something everyone can implement at any level. I want to talk quickly about your book as well. It really hit a lot of marks with me because it does hone in on so many themes that are universal, no matter what your income. The chapter that stood out most to me is where you talk about what do you cost? And I think that's important at any income level, any wealth level, because we often cost more than we realize.
Frazier:
Oh no question about it. Basically you know when I was talking about writing the book with my publisher, one of the things I talked about was there are people who come from one strata of wealth or one differens type of wealth, meaning maybe they had a business or real estate. And then they're going to another one, they're selling something or they have liquidity or more cash than they were used to having. Or they're coming from a high paying job and then they're going into retirement and hopefully they're funding their income needs via assets. The biggest thing I preach to people is if you've won the lottery or you've become a first round draft pick or you've sold a business or something like that, understand not only what you cost currently and how that was funded but also what you're going to cost. And I've tried to do it in a fun way in the book.
Bobbi:
Oh you go there. You talk about plastic surgery, you talk about private jets. It's a little bit out of most people's leagues, the kinds of things you talk about but it kinda shows how you can have that lifestyle creep so easily the minute you start to feel a little more comfortable in your wealth.
Frazier:
Not only that, people very often just don't have a sense of the numbers around different things and I try to just crack the whip as much as I can to say look this is what things cost and there is a big different between flying coach and flying first class and then going net jets and then owning your own jet. Those costs are geometric and if it's your assets that have to generate the income to support it, you may have fun for a couple of years or you could have a real problem going forward. And if the market tanks or something bad happens to your business or there's litigations or something like that, one of the threats to wealth comes to fore, you could really set yourself up for a life style pull back.
Bobbi:
Tell us more about where people can find out more about you, your book, your podcast and all the things.
Frazier:
Sure. So the book is called Wealth Actually. You can find it at wealthactually.com. It's on Amazon, so you're able to find it that way. The podcast is on wealthactually.com as well. And then more about me is on my website, frazierrice.com. I'm on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, all the major social media platforms, so between that and Google, I'm pretty easily findable.
Bobbi:
Thank you Frazier.
Frazier:
Oh yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me on.
Bobbi:
Hey everyone, so excited to watch Frazier soar in his new ventures. Here's my take on what he had to say. Financial grown-up tip number one: he had a big secret at work and you know what? It's okay to keep secrets at work. As excited as you are about whatever side hustles or new ventures you've got going on, if the bosses think you have one foot out the door, you may not get considered for certain projects or even a promotion and of course forget about a raise. Why should they invest in you when they think you're going to leave? Don't do anything related to it on your employer's time obviously and don't do anything unethical. But it is definitely okay to be discreet and by the way that promotion that you could be considered for, because they see how committed you are to your job, when you are there, that actually maybe good enough to keep you at your job and maybe you don't start your own business or maybe you have other opportunities that you might not have seen at the company.
Bobbi:
Financial grown up tip number two: Frazier talked about strategically giving to charity. Here's a little more. When you're giving to charity think about your ability to sustain the level of giving for the long run. So for example, you may have had a great year and you want to boost your gift to a new level at a cause you really care about. And you know they could use the money. But then next year the expectation is going to be that you are going to maintain that level or you're going to raise it. Something you may or may not be able to do or want to do. So here's the strategy. You keep your regular annual donations relatively steady or climbing slowly and then if you have that really good year, and you can and want to give more that year, strategically give it in a way that is clearly for a one time specific project, like a capital campaign.
Bobbi:
Alright, thank you all for your support including supporting the show by leaving reviews. I said it before but I'm repeating it cause it's so important, we really do need them my friend. Also, be in touch on the socials. I love hearing from you guys. On Instagram I am @bobbirebell1 and on Twitter @bobbirebell and thanks to Wealth Actually author Frazier Rice for bringing us all one step closer to being financial grown-ups.
Bobbi:
Financial Grown-Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.
Entrepreneur Melissa Clark had a lot going on- too much. Even she was confused. She was a wellness practitioner, creating content on many platforms including local tv, podcasting, video and books, including a children’s book, as well as coaching and speaking businesses focused on women’s empowerment. But letting go and narrower her focus was a challenge.
In Melissa’s money story you will learn:
-How Melissa started a business based on her passion for Reiki and wellness
-How the business was evolving in unexpected ways
-The difficult choice she had to make to pare back parts of the business in order to build up the ones that were resonating with her audience
In Melissa’s money lesson you will learn:
-How Melissa prioritized her business growth
-The criteria she used to focus her energy on certain parts of her business
-How she got it all done while working a full-time job!!
In Melissa’s every day money tip you will learn:
-How to self-publish a book for free or without upfront costs
-The things you might want to pay for
-Specifically how Melissa used Create Space
-The advantages of print on demand, especially for special occasions
-Whether you should consider producing an audio guide
-How digital guides can be a great option to save costs
Bobbi and Melissa also talk about
-The She Shift brand and her book
-Melissa’s new partnerships with women’s organizations
-Melissa’s speaking business and her podcast
In My Take you will learn:
-How to pivot your business to focus on the areas that are resonating with your audience
-They key sign it doesn’t make sense to other people- is when they tell you they are confused
-The importance of consistency in brand building
-The difference between procrastinating and taking the right amount of time for a project aka not putting something out there before it is ready.
Episode Links
Learn More about The She Shift TheSheShift.com
Follow Melissa and the She Shift!
Facebook TheSheShift
Twitter @thesheshift
Instagram @thesheshift
LinkedIn :Melissa Clark
Create Space
Entrepreneur Melissa Clark had a lot going on- too much. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode we discuss how Melissa prioritized her business growth and the criteria she used to focus her energy on certain parts of her business. #Rebranding #FinancialGrownup #RebrandSmallBusiness #Author
Transcription
Melissa Clark:
Reiki was something that really helped me in my own life, so I was very passionate about helping other people. It was growing slowly. Trying to figure out how to tie everything in together, that was actually a little bit of a challenge because people knew that I was doing all of these things, but they weren't related so much.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup". And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, this is an episode that makes me really proud of our guest. She is Melissa Clark, and her relatively new brand is The She Shift. More on that in a sec. Not long ago, Melissa thought she was building a wellness business as a Reiki practitioner under the brand The Wholistic Package. The brand clarity was an issue because she had so much going on. She had a children's book, she was working as a speaker, she was hosting a local TV show, she had a line of inspirational apparel, and a book on women and ambition, and videos, and lots of content. So much content. And this was also, by the way, her side hustle.
Bobbi Rebell:
Before we get to her story, quick welcome to our newest listeners and welcome back to our regulars. We are all busy, so we try to keep the podcast here to what we call flex time. The episodes are around fifteen minutes, but if you have a little more time, stack them together, binge, whatever you want to call it. It is about making it work for you. Make sure to subscribe, and you will get three a week. Go into settings and just confirm that you are on auto-download so you don't miss any, and if you still have a second, take a screenshot of the episode on your phone if that's where you're listening to it, and please share it on your social media channels. Help us to spread the word.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, let's get to Melissa Clark. Brave interview here because Melissa basically admits after I kind of confront her that yes, she had a bunch of different product lines and content going on that she could sort of justify as related, but her audience, well, a lot of the time, they were confused, I was confused, but she's got it together now. So this is a story of how she dropped what wasn't working and built up what was, and no, it did not happen overnight. This lady works a lot. Here is The She Shift's Melissa Clark.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Melissa Clark, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Melissa Clark:
Hi, Bobbi. Thanks so much for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the continued growth of your relatively new platform. We're going to talk about that. She Shift, which is not only a website, a blog, it's also a book, it's also a podcast, and it is growing. You're also a speaker. And it's all about empowering women.
Melissa Clark:
Yes, very much so. And I'm very excited to have launched that last year and all of the amazing things, as you said, under that umbrella.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it's not just a launch of that, it was actually a shift in and of itself. It was a rebrand. You made some tough decisions and had to let some things go. Tell us your money story about this rebrand and pivoting of what you were doing in your whole business
Melissa Clark:
A few years ago, I started as a wellness practitioner, a Reiki practitioner, and my business at the time was called The Wholistic Package, and in that time, I was working on wellness, I was also in the writing process. Things were shifting for myself during the past few years, and so far as working more with women through a local television show that I had in my community, through a line of inspirational apparel that I was working on, and then my book came about, and I really decided at one point that it was the right time to shift everything for myself and shift everything under one umbrella and under one brand, because for me, it really made sense to have everything under one brand that focused on women and women empowerment, and each item that I have, or service that I have, is something different, but everything has the same mission.
Melissa Clark:
I really had to almost start from scratch and create content and figure out how to change my platform, my website, my logo. So everything under The She Shift, I essentially had to start over and start from scratch and create. I basically put my head down for ten months and worked on my book and worked on my consulting packages and worked on all of the content that was going to be under that brand, and I had to figure out really what direction and where I saw that in the bigger picture. So in 2016, I started to transition with the book, and it was actually October of last year where I focused more on that specific content, and about six weeks ago, I launched every piece of content and every facet and aspect of The She Shift.
Bobbi Rebell:
Was it hard, or what did it feel like to let go of your old platform?
Melissa Clark:
As a wellness practitioner, that was something ... Reiki was something that really helped me in my own life, so I was very passionate about helping other people. It was growing slowly, but all of the other things I was working on, I published a children's book in 2015, and I was working on the inspirational apparel that I have for women. So I was kind of doing all of these different things and trying to figure out how to tie everything in together. That was actually a little bit of a challenge because people knew that I was doing all of these things, but they weren't related so much. So they were ... I was trying to make everything about our mind, body, and spirit, and improving ourselves and our well-being. But, you know, everything had a little bit of a different theme, so-
Bobbi Rebell:
It almost sounds like it was confusing to your audience.
Melissa Clark:
At points, I did get some feedback that people knew the separate pieces of what I was doing, but sometimes, they weren't quite sure either. So it was a time when I had to reevaluate what I was working on and how I could get all of these things under one umbrella because I was so passionate about working on the consulting side, and the speaking side, and my writing, and doing all of these things, but I realized at the end of the day that everything had the same message and it was the same mission, so I could then put it under the same. So it did take a little bit for me to let go of the other side of it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Were you running multiple social media accounts for each of these brands at the time?
Melissa Clark:
I was working on The Wholistic Package, and I then switched over. I actually had to create a brand new Facebook account. At the time, I had several hundred followers through my old business, but because I had to change the mission of the business, I had to start a new account with that, and then I ended up starting at that time, I went into the Instagram, and the Twitter, and the LinkedIn, and that's when I really started creating more content and trying to be more consistent with the social media. I've been working with the content a lot more these days because there's so much content to work with, and I do everything from videos to my podcast to different writing pieces, and I really try to keep up on all of that, but everything is under the same mission and theme now, so now I have a lot of content to work with.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from your story? I mean, it's hard to say goodbye to a brand that you created, that you put so much into. So much of your love, and so much money, time, and resources.
Melissa Clark:
Sure, so shedding that piece, which seemed to be maybe a little difficult at the time, it really brought me to where I am today, and I organically followed my path I say, because I know that this is where I'm meant to be and what I'm meant to be doing, so the lesson is sometimes you may be working on something at one point in your life, and that could change. I mean, even in the business that I have now, you never know. I always say I do think about where it's going to be five years from now, but I do take everything day by day because you really don't know where things are going to go or what opportunities are going to present themselves in your life.
Bobbi Rebell:
For your everyday money tip, you are a self-published author. This is a world I don't know that much about, but you have some brilliant advice for people that don't want to have to front any money. I didn't know this. You can pretty much at least publish, obviously there's things coming up to publishing, but you can publish almost for free, especially, this is great, not only for people that want to publish for professional reasons, but maybe you just want to publish a few for a family member, for a special occasion, for a friend's wedding, make a little mini-book or something. Tell us.
Melissa Clark:
Sure. So with my personal experience for my children's book and for my book for women in business, I've used Create Space, which I started with Create Space in 2015 is when my children's book came out. So at that time, I wrote the printed book and I had a Kindle version. And for my book for women in business, "The She Shift", I have it in a paperback, and what I love about self-publishing is that you go onto their website, you can either do it yourself or you can work with a designer and have them upload the file, and it's print on demand. So really, if you don't want to spend a lot of money for a large quantity of books up front, and let's say you plan on doing an event, a table event, or you want to buy some copies for your family, you can go in and you can select how many you'd like, and it's a print on demand. So there's not a lot of up front coasts regarding the printing of the book, and it really, I think, helps a lot of authors to save some costs in that way.
Bobbi Rebell:
And also, you said you could do audio and Kindle as well, or electronic, it doesn't have to be Kindle.
Melissa Clark:
Sure, so you can do an ebook, and also now, a lot of authors are doing audio guides on Audible or through different platforms. My own audio guides, I actually recorded them myself and they're on my website. So you can do either, which that also can save costs because it's a digital file, so they're really becoming popular as well now, especially the audio guides, so it's another way for authors to save a little bit on the printing and designing costs.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. All right, let's talk about The She Shift a little bit more. You mentioned you don't know where it will be in five years. Let's talk about the next five months, the rest of 2018. What's on the agenda?
Melissa Clark:
Thank you. So right now, I'm focusing on my book launch, which is on Amazon, and then consulting, speaking, and other opportunities, and I have some speaking engagements scheduled, and I'm also partnering with some women's organizations, so I'm continuing to do those things, and I really look forward to the next six months to really seeing what's going to happen and connecting with more amazing women.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, where can everyone find out more about you and The She Shift?
Melissa Clark:
Sure. TheSheShift.com, or I'm on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, and Instagram. LinkedIn, I'm under Melissa Clark, and the others, it's under The She Shift.
Bobbi Rebell:
Melissa, this was wonderful. Thank you so much.
Melissa Clark:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, here's my take on Melissa's story. Financial grownup tip number one, your business has to make sense to other people. If you have to constantly explain how the parts fit together, they don't. And it's okay to drop products that used to work with your brand, but no longer do. It's also okay to drop a brand completely, as Melissa basically did with The Wholistic Package. And it was hard. She had put a lot into it and she loved it. But to focus on her She Shift business, she had to make some hard choices. Saying goodbye to something so much went into to make time in your day and in your mind to build up something that's better ultimately is hard, but worth it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, take the time. Melissa talked about this revamp going back a couple of years. A lot of that was that her day job took up a lot of her time. That's okay. So she was realistic about what it would take to get this done. Doing something methodically and carefully is not the same as procrastinating, and during that time, she was building up different parts of it to be a more cohesive brand. Being deliberate in your plans and how you allocate resources is a very financial grownup thing to do.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for supporting the show. I want to hear about your grownup money and business experiences. I love hearing from you and getting all kinds of feedback. On Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1, on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and on Facebook at BobbiRebell. For the show notes, go to BobbiRebell.com/podcast/MelissaClark, and all of the show notes follow the same pattern in that the last segment is just the guest's name. So we keep it really simple, you don't have to worry about what number it was, just know the guest's name and it's BobbiRebell.com/podcast/the guest's name. And while you're there, sign up for our new [inaudible 00:13:59], we're going to get it going again this fall. Looking forward to some great content there.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to Melissa Clark for your candor and for such a real discussion about the challenges of being an entrepreneur, and just being a grownup, figuring out who you are and what works, and for helping all of us get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Entrepreneur Lyss Stern, CEO of networking and event planning company DivaMoms and author of two best-selling books explains how she dealt with a major company that approached her to work with them, and offered to pay her in Craisins. Lyss also shares her secret to controlling costs, and still saying yes, when she is out with her kids and they want to have some for treats like ice cream.
In Lyss’ money story you will learn:
-How a billion dollar food company tried to hire her for no pay
-Why they said they had no budget to hire Lyss
-What they offered her instead of money
-The strategy Lyss uses to make sure she is properly compensated for her work
In Lyss’ money lesson you will learn:
-Her negotiating strategy and tips on how it can be used by others
-The best ways to communicate the value of your business
-How mompreneurs can leverage their skillset
-How to handle low ball offers
In Lyss’ everyday money tip you will learn
-How to save money on treats like ice cream
-The questions you should ask while ordering to find out about sizes and other items not on the menu
Lyss and Bobbi also talk about:
-Her books: If You Give a Mom a Martini
and Motherhood is a B****
-How her life inspired her books and her business
-The realities of life as a mom and an entrepreneur
In My Take you will learn:
-How to decide whether it is worth it to take on a low-paying client, when you don’t have other clients in place
-How to find value in a client that truly does not have money to pay for your services
Episode Links:
Divamoms.com
Follow Lyss!!
instagram @diva_moms
twitter @divamoms
Facebook lys. Lyss Stern
Get her books!
If you give a mom a martini
Motherhood is a B****
Transcription
Lyss Stern:
They wrote back to me, "But we can pay you in craisins," and that was it for me. That day, I'll never forget. I could not believe what I was reading in front of me. They had the nerve to tell me that they could pay me in craisins.
Bobbi R.:
You're listening to Financial Grownup With Me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grown-up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi R.:
Hey, financial grownup friends, so this episode is going to give us permission to push back a little or actually a lot when we don't get what we need to run a profitable business. Emphasis on profit. Mompreneur, Lyss Stern, is the CEO of the networking and event planning company, DivaMoms. There are a number of them out there, but she was really a pioneer and helped create and define an industry that is thriving. And since she has so much free time, not while raising her three kids, she also writes books.
Bobbi R.:
You may have heard of If You Give a Mom a Martini and her more recent hit Motherhood is a B: 10 Steps to Regaining Your Sanity, Sexiness, and Inner Diva, which she co-wrote with Cheryl Burke, and it has a forward by odd-mom-out star, Jill Kargman. Special welcome to our new listeners. We keep the shows short, about 15 minutes so that we can fit it into your busy day, but we also do three a week, so we hear a lot of listeners like to binge listen on, for example, longer commutes. Think of it like flex-time for podcast listening. Hit subscribe if you have not already, and be sure to set up automatic downloads, so you have one less thing to remember. Just like you should automate your savings. One less thing. Okay, now let's get to the fantastic, Lyss Stern, who runs a for-profit business, something potential clients seem to have a hard time fully understanding. Here is Lyss Stern.
Bobbi R.:
Hey, Lyss Stern, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Lyss Stern:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi R.:
And I am such a fan of your company Divalysscious Moms, major event planning company. I mean literally, you have millions of mothers and Mompreneurs in your universe that you have coming to your incredible events. So I'm over the moon that you were able to make time to chat with us. So thank you for being here.
Lyss Stern:
Of course. Thank you for having me on. I'm so excited to be talking with you.
Bobbi R.:
Before we get to your money story, just tell us a little bit about the company.
Lyss Stern:
Sure. So DivaMoms is a lifestyle company for moms everywhere. What we do is we bring the best of the best directly to the moms. We've really become a direct marketing company, so we work with whatever is new, fabulous for moms, for kids, but everything has to be approved by DivaMoms, by Lyss Stern herself, before we promote it to our moms and our community.
Lyss Stern:
And we throw these amazing events and we have DivaMoms book clubs and lots of fabulous parties where moms can come and just be, let their hair down, have fun, mix and mingle with other fabulous moms and really a great social network for moms everywhere. A really amazing community online and offline.
Bobbi R.:
And you're also an author. We're going to talk about your books, in a couple of minutes, but first I want to get to your money story, because you're talking about your business, and it's really important for people to hear a little bit of the behind-the-scenes of what goes on behind these events, and the kind of decisions that you have to make in running a successful business. Tell us your money story.
Lyss Stern:
Sure. So my money story is that I get hundreds and hundreds of emails a day, as I'm sure many Mompreneurs do, where companies want to work with me. They want to advertise with DivaMoms. They want to sponsor DivaMoms events. They want social media, They want email blasts, you name it. They want it.
Bobbi R.:
So there was one company that approached you and this was not a startup. What specifically did they approach you about doing with them as a business?
Lyss Stern:
Sure. So this one company, in particular, that is a billion dollar business.
Bobbi R.:
A food company?
Lyss Stern:
A food company, billion dollars.
Bobbi R.:
A company we've all heard of?
Lyss Stern:
Yes, oh yes. Reached out to me and said, "We love DivaMoms. We want to work with you, we want to advertise with you. We want to sponsor some of your events. We want to do direct marketing with you, want to do social media with you. We want email blast with you," all this other fabulous stuff. Okay, great. So I write back and "Thank you for reaching out. Let's talk, when you have some time, about what your budget may be," and all this other stuff.
Lyss Stern:
And they write back to me, "Oh no, no, no, no, no. We don't have a budget. We don't have a marketing or advertising budget." No, but I see their advertisements on every billboard, on every bus.
Bobbi R.:
Well they don't have a budget for you.
Lyss Stern:
But they don't have a budget for me. Correct.
Bobbi R.:
And they came to you?
Lyss Stern:
Yes. I did not approach them, and they can come directly to me. I wrote back something very polite and then they wrote back to me, "Oh no, no, no, no, no, but we can't pay you," because I guess they got, they understood where I was coming from, that this DivaMoms is a for-profit business. Yes, we are affiliated. We work with different charities that we're passionate about, but DivaMoms is not a charity, we're a for-profit business like everybody else like they are.
Lyss Stern:
And they wrote back to me, "But we can pay you in craisins," and that was it for me. That day, I'll never forget. I could not believe what I was reading in front of me. They had the nerve to tell me that they could pay me in craisins. And ladies and everybody out there know your worth, and you know that you are better at getting paid in craisins.
Bobbi R.:
Oh, my goodness. Tell me how you would, in another situation, how can you turn around that kind of approach to something that is paying you in money? Have you had any stories where you've been able to make the pivot and get someone to see the value and then actually pay you in a currency?
Lyss Stern:
Yes. So I've had this many a times and this was the one time, obviously, that was with the craisins, and it was just ridiculous. But a lot of times I will write back to companies that reach out to me, and I'll explain to them who we ... Sometimes I don't think they really understand what I am or what we do. They might think that I'm, I don't know what they might think, maybe it's just a hobby for Lyss Stern. Maybe this is a hobby DivaMoms, this is not a business, and I make it, it's all business.
Lyss Stern:
This is what it is. It's very black and white and I send them, obviously, information. I send them photos, I send them videos, I send them press links and let them know who I really am. And then a lot of the times they do come back, and they say, "Oh, I didn't realize," and, "I didn't know that you did this and this and this. Let me go back and see if we can find some money in the budget." And a lot of the times they do go back, and they do, miraculously somewhere, find money out of their budget to work with us.
Bobbi R.:
So what is the lesson for our listeners to get more situations like scenario number two rather than number one?
Lyss Stern:
Sure. My mom always taught me, and I'm sure we get everybody's heard this a million times, "You get more with sugar, so always be sweet." Always put your best self out there and hopefully they will come back and understand. That you, obviously, that you have a business that you have worth. And it's always nicer to respond with a nice email and/or pick up the phone and set up a time to call and explain yourself. Explain what the business is, who you are, what you actually really do. And if they don't understand, no worries, no problem. But, hopefully, after speaking to you, after really going through your email and going through your information and doing their due diligence. They'll come back and say, "Okay, we found money," or "We'd like to really work with you and this is what we're going to do and this is what we can do."
Lyss Stern:
And I also always, I think it's important too, to give companies options to say, "What is your budget? What are you looking to do? Because we could start at this, and we can go to this." But it depends on again, what every company's looking for. And I just think it's there from the beginning, from day one of the conversation to be open and hat in hand and to have that conversation. And that's just even an example of a few days ago, a company reached out to me, a clothing company. They want me to host an event for them and Dah, Dah, Dah. And she starting to getting into this whole conversation about where the event was going to be. And I said, "Before we even begin this conversation, I just have to tell you we charge and this is what we do and this is-
Lyss Stern:
And she's, "Oh well, oh, I didn't know, I didn't know that you ... and so I had to explain it and then I sent her a proposal and that's also important too. Write it out, a, b, c, bullet point, make it visual and show them what you do, and then hopefully they'll come back with a budget.
Bobbi R.:
And I like the way that you phrase that, because what you're doing is you're giving people the benefit of the doubt. That they may think, on the surface, not fully understand your business, that they're in fact helping you give you exposure, give you new contacts, that kind of thing when in fact, as you said, you do need to be compensated, because this is the business. And I think that's something that people can sometimes get lost in, and they are well intentioned. You can't necessarily come back with negativity.
Lyss Stern:
Absolutely. I think that if you come back with negativity, at least from the beginning, from right on, it's not going to get you anywhere, but sometimes they really might not understand what you are, who your business is and what you really do. So just again, send an email, really show them what you do or set up a phone call with them or even have a meeting, go for coffee, have a lunch meeting and be a person and talk about what you do. So I think that they get a better understanding and then hopefully they can wrap their head around it and see the value and see the worth. And I think that's really important.
Bobbi R.:
Do you try to let them say the number first in terms of budget?
Lyss Stern:
I do. A lot of times I'll say to the company, "What are you looking to do? What is your budget?" And a lot of times they'll come back to me, and they'll say, "Well, what can you do for this amount? What can you do for that amount?" And sometimes they'll say to me, "Well, I don't really know, so can you give me a breakdown of what things cost?" Which I'll do always. I think a lot of times a lot of companies today don't pay, because they don't have to, because a lot of times people or companies or influencers might do stuff for free, which is fine and great. Or they might do stuff for products, I mean whatever that's wonderful. But we, my company, happens to be a for-profit business, so I just need to make that clear from early on.
Bobbi R.:
All right, let's move on to your everyday money tip, because this one made me really happy. Tell us.
Lyss Stern:
Okay. I have three children, and we love to go for ice cream. However, there is a great way to save money for ice cream. For us as adults, they always do offer kiddie cups and kiddie cones. They might not show it out on the counters-
Bobbi R.:
And they don't always tell you, which is tricky with the kids. You have to be proactive, because your kids are going to see the bigger sizes.
Lyss Stern:
Yes. You have to be proactive. You have to ask, they most usually do not put the kiddie cone, or the Kiddie cup out there, especially during the summertime, their busiest time. And same thing for going for a ladies lunch. A lot of times you don't have to order the whole salad. You could ask for half a salad, and it also affects the cost, obviously. They're just little tips about food that you can, obviously, save a few dollars by asking and being proactive.
Bobbi R.:
Always order the small or even just order an appetizer. If you're super hungry, of course, eat what you want to eat, but if you're really just there to spend time with your friends, and the food is kind of an afterthought. Don't feel you have to order an appetizer, a drink, a full entrée, a dessert, a coffee, tea.
Lyss Stern:
No, it's definitely not necessary.
Bobbi R.:
All right. I want to talk about your books, because in addition to this big business that you re running you're also churning out some books. So your first book was If You Give a Mom a Martini, which I loved. I remember reading that. A 100 ways to find 10 blissful minutes for yourself. We all need that. And, by the way, it applies to dads too, okay.
Lyss Stern:
Yes, it does.
Bobbi R.:
And then your latest one is Motherhood is a B, 10 Steps to Regaining Your Sanity, Sexiness and Inner Diva, which is a great summer read. Tell us a little bit more about that.
Lyss Stern:
Sure. So this book was created, because I felt, after having three kids, that I was just on the verge of losing it, losing myself actually. I wasn't feeling well. I was just in a place, my father just passed away, and I remember going to a retreat by myself for a few days. I said to my husband, "I just need to go away for a few days." I went to a retreat, and I remember coming back from that retreat and saying, "I need to start taking care of myself. I need to start putting myself first, because if mom's not happy, kids aren't going to be happy." Motherhood is really hard. I don't think that anybody tells you, there are no parenting books out there that really tell you what motherhood is.
Lyss Stern:
Everyone, sometimes they paint pictures of that it's rainbows and roses and Unicorns every day and it's happiness, and it's ... but it's really hard being a parent, and I think that the book is all about really empowering you to step back and get yourself back. It's like almost like a Stella Got Her Groove Back, right.
Bobbi R.:
When feel like someone gets you.
Lyss Stern:
Yes. And that's really what the book is about, and it's a great beach read, and you could have conversations with your friends and don't forget to have a B-Tini on the beach as well, because we have the recipe in there. It's absolutely delicious, with watermelon juice, and it's just again, taking care of you and putting your foot down and learning to say no and really regaining your inner-B, because motherhood is a B.
Bobbi R.:
All right. Tell us more about where people can find you and learn more about you, DivaMoms, your books, all that good stuff.
Lyss Stern:
Sure. So everybody can find me. The best place to find me is on Instagram, which is diva D-I-V-A _ moms M-O-M-S. And you can also find me on Twitter, which is divamoms.com, and of course my website, which is divamoms.com and also on Facebook. I'm very active on Facebook.
Bobbi R.:
You're everywhere.
Lyss Stern:
We have a Divalysscious Moms pages, but we also have a Lyss Stern page where I post a lot of stuff too, and also everybody listening, I'm a little sarcastic online, and I'm a little bit funny I'm a little bit witty, and I'm very real and what you see is what you get.
Bobbi R.:
Which is awesome.
Lyss Stern:
Thank you.
Bobbi R.:
Okay, friends. So the most upsetting thing about Liz's story is that while the whole craisins thing with the currency was pretty unbelievable, the idea that potential clients will try to convince you that they have no money is not unusual, especially when it comes to Mompreneurs. Let's face it. So Financial Grownup tip number one, every time you take on a client that pays you a low market or less than you want or need, the time that you used to work for that client is time you are not using to find better paying-work or to do better-paying work. So for example, let's say Lyss decided to work on a client that paid her 20% below what she needed to make a profit, because well, it was better than nothing and maybe she didn't have something else at the time, when that offer came in, those days are locked in.
Bobbi R.:
Okay, so now another potential client comes along, and we'll meet her price, but now she's not available. Don't work with clients who either cannot afford to pay you at the rate that you need to hit your profit targets, and especially don't work with clients that have the resources to pay you appropriately, but choose to try to low ball you.
Bobbi R.:
Financial Grownup tip number two, but here is the caveat to what I just said. If there is a client that, in the short term, cannot afford to pay you in currency, as I joked with Lyss, but you believe they will add value for your brand in a constructive way, it is okay to try to work something out. Don't be stubborn. Not every case is black and white. Live in the gray areas, just not in the red, of course.
Bobbi R.:
Thanks for sharing this time with us. Tell us your Financial Grownup money tips, DM me on the social channels @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, @bobbirebell on twitter, and learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownupspodcast. Lyss Stern does not mess around. She is definitely a Financial Grownup, so thanks, Lyss, for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Bobbi R.:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
John Schneider and David Auten went 40 percent over budget at their recent wedding- including a couple thousand dollars on a very fancy portable restroom known as the Lavish Loo. Looking back, they would have said I don’t to many of their expenses.
In John and David’s money story you will learn:
-How their wedding went 40% over budget
-Why they spent $2,000 on a fancy portable bathroom called the Lavish Loo
-Why they regret not waiting a little bit longer to get married
-The choices they would make differently in hindsight
In John and David’s money lesson you will learn:
-The importance of focusing on your own priorities for your wedding or special event not what is expected by friends and family
-How they leveraged their wedding spending to pay for their a good portion of their honeymoon
In John and David’s every day money tip you will learn:
-How to use the strategy they call money chunking to make your budget feel larger
In my take you will learn:
-How to get things for free from vendors and party planners
-How better communication about expectations for sharing expenses can avoid misunderstandings.
Episode Links
The Debt Free Guys website
Queer Money podcast
Follow the Debt Free Guys!
Instagram @debtfreeguys
Facebook DebtFree Guys
Twitter @DebtFreeGuys
The Lavish Loo
The Posh Potty
Come see the Debt Free Guys at The National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce Business and leadership conference in Philadelphia
Come see the Debt Free Guys at FinCon in Orlando!
Transcription
David Auten:
We had to pay a little bit extra to have some nice, they were called the Posh Potty, no the Lavish Loo. So we had some pretty fancy toilets at our wedding.
John Schneider:
The Lavish Loo was just under $2,000 for the one night.
David Auten:
We had it for three nights.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownups, so everyone wants their weddings, their birthdays, special occasions to be remembered especially when they throw a big party. In the case of John Schneider and David Auten, also known as the Debt Free Guys, the big buzz at their wedding in addition to the overall joy of them tying the knot, was actually about the fancy porta potty. Which by the way was technically called The Lavish Loo.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, just a minute here. A special welcome to our new listeners and welcome back to our regulars. We keep the episodes to about 15 minutes to fit your schedule. So if you have more time, we hear binging a few for a long drive or a commute works well. Think of it like flextime for podcast listeners.
Bobbi Rebell:
It would mean the world to us if you would subscribe and then go into settings and make sure that you are set up for auto downloads. That way, you won't miss any upcoming episodes. Automate your podcast like you automate your retirement savings. There you go. All right, let's get to John and David.
Bobbi Rebell:
So they just got married and they did go over budget on their wedding, but it wasn't just splurging on things like fancy porta potties, which they'll explain by the way. They kind of got into a pickle where they really had no choice about that. It was also kind of about being too busy to make the effort to watch those expenses and not asking the right questions in time to control the costs. Here are the Debt Free Guys.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Debt Free Guys. You guys are financial grownups. Welcome to the podcast.
John Schneider:
Thank you for having us. We're excited to be here.
David Auten:
Yes, thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let me do one more formal introduction. First of all we have John Schneider. So say hello so people know your voice.
John Schneider:
Hello this is John Schneider.
Bobbi Rebell:
And David Auten.
David Auten:
Hi, this is David.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right and I am a huge fan of your website because so much of the advice applies to everyone even though you are out there talking about your sexual orientation. This is universal themes that you talk about, including the fact that you guys successfully paid and this is a big deal, $51,000 in credit card debt in just over two years. So first of all, congratulations on that.
John Schneider:
Thank you. That was very liberating. It was coming out of a closet with our finances.
David Auten:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you also have been able to really leverage your successes into business opportunities and into productive ones that really help others to find a path that is right for them financially. So tell me about some of these partnerships that you've been able to put together that are spreading the word.
John Schneider:
Yeah exactly. We actually are excited to share that we just resigned with a Queer Money sponsor, which will be MassMutual. It'll be their second time sponsoring our podcast which is, not only does it help us put food on the table, but it helps us be able to promote and market our podcast and get it out to more people so we can help more people with the content that we create, both with ourselves and with our guests.
Bobbi Rebell:
I have to congratulate both of you. You both recently said, "I do." At your wedding.
John Schneider:
We did.
David Auten:
Absolutely.
Bobbi Rebell:
I saw amazingly beautiful photos. Everyone should go to your social media, which is all @debtfreeguys. We'll have more info at the end of the podcast on that. You said, "I do." But you also now wish you said, "I don't." To a bunch of stuff. Tell us your money story.
John Schneider:
Yeah. Hindsight's 20/20, right? And even though our entire life revolves around helping ourselves and other people with their money, we definitely have some big takeaways even just a month after our wedding.
David Auten:
Yeah.
John Schneider:
I think the biggest mistake that we made overall was that we have a lot going on in our lives. This year, we just sold our condo January 3rd of this year and then we had to move out, find a new apartment. We're trying to ramp up our business, we had the wedding, and then we've been planning for a couple of years to spend a month or so in Europe come the end of August. So we have just a lot going on right now and I don't know that it was the best time to plan a wedding because we weren't as focused and as diligent with the planning and most specifically, the expenses.
Bobbi Rebell:
So give us some examples.
John Schneider:
We first found the location that we wanted to have the wedding. It was a 40 acre ranch in the mountains of Colorado, kind of between Salida and Buena Vista. It was a beautiful ranch, beautiful location, the mountains were in the background. Wonderful. That's all we thought about when we saw the pictures on the website. Then we went and visited the ranch and it wasn't until after the fact that we realized all of the peripheral costs that came with having a wedding at that location.
John Schneider:
We had envisioned that we would be completely out in the open so that people could see the sky and the sunset and the moonrise. And we had learned that every now and then, they get some pretty heavy gusts of wind and that you ran a big risk of people eating dirt if you didn't have a tent there to protect yourselves in case there was some inclement weather.
David Auten:
Yeah.
David Auten:
I think one of the other things about having it at that ranch is we didn't realize, it being in a remote location, it's not on a sewer system that most people are familiar with using. So we actually had to have porta potties brought up, but of course we didn't want the kind of typical green or blue.
John Schneider:
That you see at the park.
David Auten:
Yeah the ones that everyone kind of their stomach turns when you think about them. So we had to pay a little bit extra to have some nice, they were called The Posh Potty or no, the Lavish Loo.
David Auten:
So we had some pretty fancy toilets at our wedding only because we needed to provide that and that did cost us a little extra.
Bobbi Rebell:
How much did they cost? How much does a posh potty cost?
John Schneider:
The Lavish Loo was just under $2,000 for the one night.
David Auten:
We had it for three nights.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which one did you go with? Did you go with The Lavish Loo or the Posh Potty?
John Schneider:
We went with The Lavish Loo and it was really fancy, in fact. We didn't realize how nice it was until after the wedding. That was one of the biggest talking points of the wedding. So we're like, "We have to check this out." There was a men's and women's side. They weren't gigantic, but they were big enough for one or two people they had air conditioning, there was music playing. They had plants inside. There was all sorts of air freshener and all the hand wash, soap. Everything that you could ever want.
John Schneider:
And one of the guys that was actually at the wedding he said he almost thought about sleeping in there that night because it was the coolest place to sleep in.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you did get good value at least from The Lavish Loo.
David Auten:
We did.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right things to everyone should make sure to put into your wedding budget. All right. What else surprised you? What about the traditional expenses? Were there things that you guys just didn't think ... Did you have a wedding planner or somebody guiding you? Did you make a budget in advance of the wedding? So you had a certain fixed amount that you were going to spend and kind of worked back from there and then had to drop things. What was going on here?
David Auten:
We did have a budget from the get go and we hired a wedding planner who was actually a friend of ours and specializes in doing same-sex weddings. And she was wonderful. She acted as a great resource. Not only as a guide to ... There were just things that we never thought of and would never have thought of had we tried to do this on our own. So that was very helpful. Plus she also had an inventory of resources like candle holders and plates and silverware and all that kind of stuff can really rack up your costs that she was willing to give us access to at no additional cost other than her fee.
David Auten:
So that was super helpful partly because we weren't paying enough attention to the management of the expenses. I think we maybe spent about 40% more than what we had originally budgeted.
Bobbi Rebell:
So 40% is a lot and it's clearly not just the $2,000 Lavish Loo.
John Schneider:
We specifically kept the size of the wedding down. So we invited mostly our very supportive friends.
Bobbi Rebell:
What was the guest list? How many people about?
David Auten:
We invited about 60, about 41 came I think was the final count.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. And what was your initial budget if you feel comfortable disclosing that?
David Auten:
My original in my mind was that this was going to cost us about $15,000. Like I said, we'd spent probably about 40% more so we did cross the $20,000 mark.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah and the $2,000 then I guess, as a portion of the wedding expense, you spent 10% of your budget on The Lavish Loo.
David Auten:
Right.
Bobbi Rebell:
That was a chunk.
John Schneider:
And I think another cost that we didn't manage appropriately was ... so we rented this ranch and it slept a total of 14 people, I believe. And only four of those were single beds. Our idea was that we would have our closest friends stay in the ranch with us and that they would help share in the cost of that. We were negligent at letting them know that in advance of making the offer to them and never asked for the money in advance or never asked for the money afterwards.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for our listeners?
David Auten:
I would definitely say give yourself the time to think about what it is that you truly want. What it is that you truly want, not what you want for your friends, not what you want for your family. What do you want your day to look like? That was one of the things that helped us save some money, but I think that having that extra amount of time to really think through all of the costs that are associated with it.
John Schneider:
In hindsight, even though it was more expensive than we expected it to be, I couldn't get over. I've been so excited about it. We only have so far half a dozen pictures from the wedding, but I look at them all the time. To me, it was just the most amazing week. And so, I think part of that was because we created what we wanted and not what everybody else wanted like David said.
David Auten:
We did find one way to actually get a benefit out of the amount of money that we spent. We opened up two new credit cards, used those credit cards exclusively for the wedding knowing we had the money to pay it off and because of that, we're getting five nights free hotel when we're on our honeymoon in Ireland.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well you guys are very good at budgeting and so let's move into your everyday money tip because that has to do with an interesting take you that I think will really help people get their heads wrapped around the different fluctuations in the cost of living.
David Auten:
Yeah so this is what I call money chunking. I kind of joke with John that this is something that he does regularly. He'll grab a pint of Ben & Jerry's and will eat the whole thing. And then throughout the week he's wishing he had ice cream.
Bobbi Rebell:
I can't imagine what that would be like.
John Schneider:
One pint is a serving. I don't care what anybody says. I don't believe [crosstalk 00:10:44].
Bobbi Rebell:
Or else it would be in two different containers, right?
John Schneider:
Thank you.
David Auten:
Right. So the idea with money chunking is I'm the kind of person who would eat a quarter of the pint and then put it back in the freezer, go and eat another quarter of the pint and put it back in the freezer. So that's kind of the idea with money chunking is that when you have an amount of money that you have set aside in your budget for something. Whether that's for the week or for a month, we often times have this tendency to think, "Okay I've got this amount of money." And then you go out and you blow it either the first day or maybe the second into your budget.
David Auten:
And then the rest of the time, whether it's the rest of the week or the rest of the month, you feel like you're sacrificing. You feel like you're not having fun. You feel like you're not able to actually do what it is that you enjoy in life.
David Auten:
When we money chunk, what we do is we'll take that amount of money. Let's say we have $50 for dining out for the week, we'll break that into a couple of pieces so that instead of just one time going out, we actually get to go out two or three times. So it allows us to spread our happiness over the whole budget rather than just those first two nights or first night.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. All right tell me what you guys are up to for the rest of 2018 and beyond.
John Schneider:
Right now we're super excited because we are joining a whole bunch of LGBT entrepreneurs in Philadelphia August 14th through the 17th at the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce Business & Leadership Conference. That's our next event. Then we're going out of the country. We'll be in Ireland for a week followed by three weeks in Spain and that's predominantly for fun. Lik David said, it's our honeymoon. It's also a little bit to celebrate my birthday. But it's also we've created our entire business for the most part, everything that we do with our business other than public speaking, we can do from anywhere in the world.
John Schneider:
So we're trying to test to see how good we are at actually being in Spain near a beach and being able to focus a little bit on the business, but also focus a little bit on having some fun while we're abroad. Shortly after that, we'll be joining you at FinCon in Orlando.
Bobbi Rebell:
Very fun. And where can people learn more about you, follow you on social, and so on?
David Auten:
Sure. On almost every platform, we are @debtfreeguys so that's Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. We are @debtfreeguys. Our website is debtfreeguys.com and then on iTunes, our podcast is called Queer Money.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it is climbing up the charts as we speak. So congratulations on all your success.
John Schneider:
Thank you so much for having us on. We appreciate it.
David Auten:
Definitely. We appreciate it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, as the guys mentioned, they will see me in Orlando at FinCon. We'd love to see some of my Financial Grownup friends there as well. I'm going to leave a link on how to find out more about FinCon in the show notes. That is at bobbirebell.com/podcast/debtfreeguys and be sure to DM me if you be there so we can connect in Florida.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, here we go. Financial Grownup tip number one. Event planning on a budget 101. Ask for things that you might be able to get for free. So the guys, for example, got candle holders from their party planner. At my wedding, which was a Jewish wedding, the florist asked what we wanted on the chuppah. And the chuppah is basically a canopy that a couple stands under at a wedding and it represents a home.
Bobbi Rebell:
So many people have it constructed these days out of branches and flowers and they are beautiful and fantastic. And most ceremonies that this is used for run about half an hour. So you can spend thousands, you can spend infinite money on this. For me, it was just not that important. So I asked the synagogue if they had one that we could just borrow. And they did. They described it. It was a beautiful deep blue velvet with gold trim, Hebrew lettering and some other décor. It was simple, it was traditional. I loved it. And it was free.
Bobbi Rebell:
Also free basic linens for tables usually come with whoever you're working with, the place, the venue. Instead of going for a layer on top or bows on the chairs, just ask the florist to put aside the non-perfect flower petals or just extra flower petals that are falling off from whatever flower arrangement you have and then use those petals to sprinkle on those standard white tablecloths. And you can also do that, by the way, to dress up the cake. So those are some specific things that you can do.
Bobbi Rebell:
So pick something you're ambivalent about, not the things that you really care about, but the things that you're kind of like, "Eh, I don't care that much about the tablecloths." And see if someone can make that work for you for free.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. The biggest budget buster for the guys was so easy to avoid. When you invite guests to stay at the hotel, include the cost and make sure that they are opting in. In their case, since they did not say anything, their well-intentioned friends probably assumed that it just came with the wedding package and there was no additional costs. That's what I would think.
Bobbi Rebell:
I get the awkwardness of asking after the fact. One possible idea; have a close friend, a very close friend delicately call the people that you've invited to stay at the ranch and explain that you're shy about asking for the cash, but that paying for everyone to stay is not in the wedding couple's budget. Honestly, very few people expect to have the wedding couple pay for their hotel. You could even have your friend say that their wedding gift to the wedding couple could be staying at the hotel and absorbing your own costs and that no further gift is necessary.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's connect. Please be in touch. DM me on social media. I want to hear from you guys and I want to hear what you think about the show, what you want to see more of. We're trying a lot of different things and we're getting great feedback. And I want your feedback.
Bobbi Rebell:
On Instagram, I am @bobbirebell1. On Twitter, @bobbirebell. And thanks to the Debt Free Guys for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Fran Hauser became a financial grownup very young, helping her immigrant parents build their businesses by doing the books and serving as a liaison to clients as early as 1st grade. The author of “The Myth of the Nice Girl, Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate” now applies those early life lessons to her search for startup investment opportunities.
In Fran’s money story you will learn:
-How growing up as the english speaking daughter of Italian immigrants impacted her path to being a financial grownup
-What it was like to be preparing invoices for her parents businesses starting in 1st grade
-What she learned about risk and investment from observing her father’s strategies
-How her parents took risks despite their disadvantages, and the impact that had on her current risk tolerance
-How she integrates those skills when she considers startup investors in her current role as an early stage investor
-The specific characteristics she looks for when evaluating startups
In Fran’s money lesson you will learn:
-How to conquer fear of mistakes
-The importance of integrating kindness and respect
In Fran’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-How Fran teachers her children about money using a 5 gallon water jug
-How much they saved
-How they spent the money!
In My Take you will learn:
-The impact of saying Thank You instead of Sorry
-How the correct tone in which a message is delivered can make it more effective
Bobbi and Fran also talk about:
-Her new book The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate
-What inspired Fran to write the book after more than a decade of planning
-The unique scripts that are in the book that readers can use to execute the strategies Fran teaches
-What the Nice Girl Army is, and how you can laern more about it
-Fran’s plans now that the book has been a best seller!
Episode Links:
Learn more about Fran at her website Franhauser.com
Buy Fran’s book! http://www.franhauser.com/nicegirl/
Follow Fran!
instagram fran_hauser
twitter @fran_hauser
Transcription
Fran Hauser:
When my father was asked to go look at a job, a potential client, and give them an estimate, he wasn't able to understand the directions to actually get to the house. So I would listen in on another phone and write down the directions, and then I would go in the car to the residence, and then I would get out and I basically be the translator.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, that was author, Fran Hauser. Now, this is a very big interview for me because she is very much in demand after her book, The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate, became a huge hit this summer. It has many of us rethinking the things that women thought we had to do to succeed. No more mean girls, and there's a lot in there for men as well. So stay with me everyone, this is not just for women listeners. Special welcome to our new listeners, if you are returning, thank you as well for your support. We keep the shows to about 15 minutes so you can easily fit it into your busy schedule, but we also release three episodes a week. So feel free to binge if you're commuting, just make sure to select auto download after you subscribe so that they'll be in your feed automatically. It's all about making it easy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Fran. After a long career in media, which included being the president of digital at Time, she is now an investor in startups, and she got a lot of the training for that from her upbringing being a very active part of her parents businesses. Here is Fran Hauser.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Fran Hauser, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Fran Hauser:
Hi Bobbi, great to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the incredible success of your book, The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love, circled in a bright red circle, Without Becoming a Person You Hate, big X over the 'Hate' of course. Since the book's come out it's been named so many different things, including an Amazon Best Business Book of 2018, best new book by People magazine and Refinery 29, most anticipated title of April by Bustle, I mean I could just basically go on. Congratulations on all of that, Fran.
Fran Hauser:
Oh thank you. It's really been amazing, I feel so grateful.
Bobbi Rebell:
You came to us with a story that's really meaningful, because it has to do with your whole family and the money experiences that you learned growing up from your parents, in the town where my sister now lives, Mount Kisco, and you were their bookkeeper in their businesses in first grade, tell us about that.
Fran Hauser:
Yes. So my parents are Italian immigrants who moved to Mount Kisco, as you said, and like many immigrants it took a lot of courage to make this move. They were uneducated, they didn't speak the language, and they were moving to a place that was completely foreign to them. What each of my parents did have though, was a skill. So my father was a stonemason, my mother was really good at sewing, so they both started small businesses. My dad a stonemeasonry business, and my mom opened up a tailoring shop with her best friend. Being the oldest of four, they needed my help, especially when it came to communication. So when I was in first grade I was preparing all of my dad's invoices. One memory that I have is I could only add at that point in time, I couldn't multiply yet, so my aunt actually created a sales tax chart for me, so that if the monthly maintenance was $300, I could see exactly what the sales tax was, and then just add the two numbers together.
Fran Hauser:
So that was first grade, and then even in middle school I was helping my mother with marketing. So helping her come up with a logo, and getting different marketing and sales materials printed. So I got exposed to business at a very young age, and even understanding things like revenue, and expense, cashflow, you know seeing that when more cash comes in than goes out, decisions that need to be made around what to do with that extra money. It was really interested watching my dad because he took some calculated risks and invested in both commercial and residential real estate, which proved to be fruitful. I would say at a very, very, very young age I played this role of bookkeeper/marketer/general manager.
Fran Hauser:
Another vivid memory I have that I'll just share with you is when my father was asked to go look at a job, a potential client, and give them an estimate, he wasn't able to understand the directions to actually get to the house. So I would listen in on another phone and write down the directions, and then I would go in the car with him and we would actually drive to the residence together, and then I would get out and I would basically be the translator for him. So that was my childhood, pretty unconventional.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Very unconventional. How did you assume this role? Were there specific deliberate conversations, or did it just evolve organically as you grew up in the household?
Fran Hauser:
It really evolved organically, because I was the oldest. Really, these things just fell on me. It made sense, if something was broken, even in the house, and needed to be repaired, I would be the one to call the plumber or the contractor, and at the time it felt really hard. It was frustrating, for sure, at times because I just felt so different from all of my "American" friends, who were doing sleepovers and play dates, and I had so much more responsibility. Obviously, looking back, it was actually such an incredible experience, because I learned so much, not just about business but also about risk taking. Watching my parents, who had so much going against them, they were at such a disadvantage, but they were still able to take these risks. Whether it was building these businesses, or investing in real estate, and if you look at my career, I've taken many risks in my career. I've reinvented myself several times. I left Coca-Cola and the late nineties to go to an early stage internet company, Movie Phone. Or five years ago, I left a really comfortable job at Time Inc. to move into startup investing.
Fran Hauser:
So I haven't been afraid to take risks, and I think a lot of that comes from seeing how disadvantaged my parents were, and feeling like if they could take risks, I should be able to.
Bobbi Rebell:
I wanted to ask you, so you mentioned, and I was going to bring this up, that you now are a startup investor. How did this background in business and understanding risks, and understanding strategy and marketing, and even just the basic economics of business, how does that inform your approach as an investor now?
Fran Hauser:
So I think in a lot of ways. For starters, when I'm evaluating the entrepreneurs I'm looking at them and I'm saying, "Do they have the capacity to take risks? Will they jump in with both feet?" And I'm also looking at what kind of mindset do they have? Are they optimistic? I always felt like my parents approached every single venture with such optimism, and with an abundance mindset, and treating people kindly and with respect. So those are things that I really look for in an entrepreneur, and then the other side of it is the brass tactics operational side, which is I feel like I'm really good at looking at financials and understanding what the risks are, really getting nitpicky when it comes to the assumptions that are being used. So I feel like I can look at a PnL pretty quickly, and projected cashflows, and all that good stuff, and I'm just co comfortable. I'm so comfortable with numbers, and I'm so comfortable with looking at forecasts and really trying to make sense of it, and also understanding is there a there there?
Fran Hauser:
The other part too, I would say, is just understanding markets, understanding consumers. I think that also comes from just having spent so much time with my parents clients. So it's impacted me as an investor in so many different ways.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson then, for our listeners from this, that they can apply to their businesses, and to some degree, to their lives?
Fran Hauser:
I would say the lesson is to not be afraid to take risks, and when you do so, really approach it with a mindset of abundance and optimism, and don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to go all in and to jump in with both feet, and then also the last thing I would say, which really ties back to the book, is to treat people with kindness and respect, because I think you look at my parents who barely spoke a word of english, and they were still able to communicate through a lot of nonverbal cues, and a lot of that had to do with being charming, and being kind, and that will take you far.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because the book is really all about being nice, but in a strategic and smart way.
Fran Hauser:
Yes, being nice in a way where you're not a pushover, and you're not veering into people pleasing territory. It's really about how you can be both nice and strong. Those two things are not mutually exclusive, and that you bring both of those into virtually any situation at work.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your everyday money tip, because one thing that I love about this is it's very specific, and tangible, and something we can all do pretty much right away.
Fran Hauser:
Yeah, I love this. So what we do in my house is, instead of a normal piggy bank, we collect coins in a five gallon water jug. The kids love it because it's so much bigger than a piggy bank, and it's clear, so you can see the progress. The last time we cashed it in the coins were worth $4000, and it took us several years to fill it up, but it's just a really fun way to teach your kids about saving and about goals.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you cash it in, what's that experience like? Is it one of the machines, or do you bring it to a bank?
Fran Hauser:
It's actually hysterical because it's so heavy, so what you have to do is we put duct tape over the top of it to close it, and then we literally roll it-
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my God.
Fran Hauser:
We have to roll it down the-
Bobbi Rebell:
You could get a smaller container, Fran, you know that?
Fran Hauser:
I know, but it's part of the experience, I guess. So much fun, and then we literally bring it into the bank. The teller always has so much fun with it, because it's not something that they usually see.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you do with the $4000 then?
Fran Hauser:
The first time we did it my husband and I, it was actually pre-kids, so we ended up spending it on a really great spa vacation, which was great. Just the two of us.
Bobbi Rebell:
That works.
Fran Hauser:
That works, right? And now with the kids we're just starting to talk to them about, "Okay, what do we want to spend it on?" And that's also really fun, because it allows you to bat around ideas and then have something that you're really excited about, you have something to look forward to.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. We'll have to get an update and put it in the show notes as to where the money goes. I want to spend just a couple of minutes talking about your book, because it's had so much impact.
Fran Hauser:
Yes. The book is really my response to a question that I get asked all the time, which is, "How can you be so nice, and still be successful?" It's just a topic that I've found myself talking about quite a bit, and it's something that I really believe. Being nice, and being empathetic, and collaborative, and having an abundance mindset. All of those things have really served me well in my career. If I think about some of the bigger promotions that I received, or if I was asked to work on a really high profile project, a lot of that came back to my ability to build relationships and earn trust, and a lot of that goes back to being nice.
Fran Hauser:
So the book is really actual, I mean it's inspiring, but I think what makes it special is I am such an operator at heart that I really wanted to make sure that we filled it with tips, and techniques, and scripts. There are so many scripts for navigating sticky situations.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, there are very specific things, because people think, "Well, this happens to me, what do I ..." they literally don't have the words. Like when someone takes credit for an idea that you had, you go into exactly what to do, which is important.
Fran Hauser:
Yes, and I have to tell you one really cool thing, just over the past week I've had three different women tell me that they all got really big raises using my advice in the book.
Bobbi Rebell:
Fantastic. And now, you're now working on this Nice Girl Army, right? That's your saying on social media, and you bring together all these different stories that relate to that.
Fran Hauser:
Yes. My Nice Girl Army is actually a group of ambassadors that I put together, probably about six to nine months ago. A lot of them are former mentees, or current mentees, they really love the message in the book, and they've really gotten behind the book. It's basically a Google group I've created where we all communicate with one another, and they've all been so helpful in promoting the book, and I think from a hashtag perspective, it's taken on this bigger movement feel to it. It's just been really fun to see women who I don't know reading the book and using that hashtag, and saying how much they love the book, and how much it's helped them.
Fran Hauser:
So I think in terms of what I'm thinking about next, it's really how do I take all of this great content that's in the book, and what else can I do with that content? So I'm just starting to think about some product extensions from the book, which is really exciting, and then still doing my day job, which is investing and advising, which is something that I've put on pause a little bit over the last few months as I've been working on the book tour. So I'm really excited to get back into that as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Well, I want to make sure everyone can, first of all get the book if they haven't gotten it yet, but more importantly, also know where to find you and follow to get updates on all of these different projects.
Fran Hauser:
Yes, definitely. So my website is FranHauser, H-A-U-S-E-R, .com, and you can get all the information about the book and where to buy the book there. My Instagram and Twitter handle is the same, it's Fran_Hauser, and of course you can always connect with me on Linkedin as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Fran. I love the book, and if there's anyone out there who hasn't read it yet, please pick it up, it's wonderful, well worth investing the time. Thank you Fran.
Fran Hauser:
Thank you Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, so Fran and I really just scratched the surface in that interview, here's a little bit more wisdom from her book. Financial Grownup tip number one; one thing that Fran talks about in The Myth of the Nice Girl is the importance of how things are presented, the tone that you use in your voice. So you can be firm, and not be a pushover, and still be nice. Think about the way that you say things.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two; don't say sorry so much. Try replacing it with "Thank you." Fran points out that many women apologize of things that not only were not their fault, but also they aren't really sorry about. For example, not being able to attend an event. She would often apologize for declining an invitation, instead, she advises to simply say, "Thank you for the invitation." And say that you will not be able to attend.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you have not already, please hit that subscribe button and be in touch on Twitter, @BobbiRebell, on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook I am @BobbiRebell. And learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. And thank you to the wonderful Fran Hauser for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
When entrepreneurs Daniel Levine and Steven Pulver started their Fireside Conference in Canada 4 years ago, their ambition was so hot it burned through their budget, putting the conference in the red.
In Dan and Steve’s money story you will learn:
-The backstory of their first Fireside Conference
-The key thing that they did not factor into their budget
-How they select who attends the Fireside conference, and how they believe that curation ties into their success
-The missing thing in the conference marketplace that they identified, and inspired them to create their own conference
-The personal connection they have to the location of the conference
-Where their funding came from at the start of the venture
-Why they were $30,000 in debt when the first conference ended
In Dan and Steve’s money lesson you will learn:
-Why they decided to stay on their original trajectory even though the conference lost money in year one.
-What the data from the first conference showed them and how they leveraged the data for the future
-The role that social media played in their success, even though there was no cell phone reception (or use) at the conference
-How they monetized a very small audience by focusing on community curation
In Dan and Steve’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-Why they allocated a significant budget to in-person events to connect with their community
-The quick realization that they could have more impact on a lower budget by changing one key thing.
-How you can apply that to your networking and marketing, or even just your friendships and personal relationships
-Why spending more money to impress people is often not effective and can sometimes dilute the potential impact
In My Take you will learn:
-How the new hit show Succession illustrated the same point as the Fireside guys- wealthy people are not impressed by expensive stuff. Just be real with them.
-How I implement the same strategy, hosting friends and colleagues in my home, rather than taking them out for fancy impersonal dinners
-The significance of pro-actively choosing how you fund a startup
-How self-funding allows for a less painful failure, because while you lose your money, you maintain control and avoid pressure to cut losses from outside investors
Dan, Steven and Bobbi also talk about
-Dan and Steve’s entrepreneurial venture MinuteBox.com
-The next Fireside conference in September
-The speakers at the next conference will include Jordan Harbinger and Jason Calcanis
-How to get preferential consideration for the conference
Episode Links
Learn more about the Fireside Conference!
Follow them on social media!
-twitter @firesideconf, @daniellevine
-instagram @fireside_conf
Learn about their 2018 speakers:
Jordan Harbinger
Jason Calcanis
Learn more about the show I mentioned- HBO's Succession!
Transcription
Daniel Levine:
We didn't have a sense of when we told people that it was going to be all you can drink, what that meant on the bottom line, and we didn't really have a sense of when you do a conference in the middle of nowhere three and half hours from the closest big city, what that means when you have to start helping to arrange transportation for people.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money but it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes my friends, the bar tab can get pretty expensive, especially when you offer it unlimited all weekend long, and that was just the beginning for entrepreneurs, Steven Pulver and Daniel Levine when they started the Fire Side Conference in Canada four years ago. The team wanted everything to be perfect for their first experience, but perfect does not come cheap. Lots of lessons and take aways here are Steven Pulver and Daniel Levine.
Bobbi Rebell:
Daniel Levine and Steven Pulver, you're financial grown ups, welcome to the podcast.
Steven Pulver:
Thanks so much for having us.
Daniel Levine:
Pleasure to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
You guys hold the honor of being the first team that I've had on. So this is going to be cool. We'll see how it goes.
Daniel Levine:
Thank you. We're looking forward to it.
Steven Pulver:
Hopefully no screw ups but we're looking forward to it.
Bobbi Rebell:
You guys are going to be great. Alright you are Canadian entrepreneurs and you are the brains behind a conference that I was very impressed by when I started learning about it, The Fireside Conference. It's happening for the fourth year in September, up in Canada. You're also entrepreneurs yourselves. This is a conference for entrepreneurs, you are entrepreneurs. Your company is MinuteBox, which is cloud based, software basically for law firms to help them be compliant with the various regulations in Canada but the conference is really the focus that I want to talk about here because your money story is about.
Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us what happened, this is year four. I want to hear what happened in the first year, because I think it's some that a lot of entrepreneurs and just people that have ideas about starting businesses or just managing their own finances will relate to and hopefully learn from
Steven Pulver:
For sure. It starts in 2014 when Fireside itself was born and just for your listeners to take just a 30 second overview of what Fireside is, and how it differs from a traditional conference. So Fireside at its core is an invite only retreat for entrepreneurs, founders, investors, influencers from all over the world that we invite up to a summer camp every September.
Steven Pulver:
We started our first official year in 2015. Daniel and I were looking around our community and saying there's a lot of great networking events, there's a lot of great events and things to bring the community together, but the biggest failure they all had was the inability to really bring people together on a way deeper level than just meeting in a conference hall.
Steven Pulver:
So we kind of said there's got to be a better venue that we can do a conference or an event at and we landed on this amazing summer camp where children are there all summer as a sleepover camp outside Bancroft, Ontario, Canada.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you have a personal connection, right? You have a personal connection to the camp.
Steven Pulver:
Yeah so I spent 24 years there both as a camper and staff and worked my way all the way up from counselor to head staff and eventually leadership team and helped a run a lot of the programming. So I was obviously incredibly biased. Daniel actually had attended camp Alden as well as a staff. So when we were looking at venues we were obviously both biased in knowing this was an amazing place to do this at.
Steven Pulver:
We had no video of photos of Fireside itself. When we were trying to market and spend money on ads and things like that, we literally had no real starting point. So because of that everything we were doing, we were fresh into. So we were throwing a lot of stuff at the wall, as we continue to do today, to see what would stick.
Bobbi Rebell:
Had you done any market research or anything? What was your background that made you qualified to do this?
Steven Pulver:
I think we would be completely foolish to say now that we had any form of subject matter expertise in running events, other than wanting to do something amazing.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where was you funding coming from, did you have budget, how did this come together from a financial perspective?
Daniel Levine:
So in our first year, from a financial perspective, it really came together very loosely and in an unstructured way, and hopefully not to ruin the story, but that's how we found ourselves about $30,000 in debt at the end of it. We looked at pricing and we weren't looking at pricing as a factor or breakeven. We weren't looking at it as a function necessarily of our cost. We really went into this with an, "if you build it they will come" attitude and really not having pedigrees in the areas of conferences or event management. We didn't have a sense of when we told people that it was going to be all you can drink, what that really meant on the bottom line, and we didn't really have a sense of when you do a conference in the middle of nowhere three and a half hours from the closest big city, what that means when you have start helping to arrange transportation for people.
Daniel Levine:
So it really was both a combination of not having a budget, but also really just, as you put it, not having any qualifications for doing something like this that had us at the end of a really magical two and half days turn to each other and realize that we really were not in a good financial position.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you spend? Give me some of the numbers, what did you spend on the conference and where, and was your revenue that you did have?
Steven Pulver:
Back then, I should say, our only revenue source was tickets. So our tickets were, Dan what was it, $300 to $500 range?
Daniel Levine:
Yeah.
Steven Pulver:
Let's say give or take $350 to $400 on average, in terms of ticket price. That was really our main source of revenue. We had a little bit of sponsorship at the time, but when we're talking about money coming in the door, we're really looking in the $20,000 to $30,000 range or just pure revenue. Now, there's a lot of costs involved, so of course things are completely dependent on the number of people that we have enter the gates of camp. So back then we were about 75 people, now we're around 400, so obviously that has changed quite a bit, but back then, alcohol was a huge cost.
Steven Pulver:
Swag, wanting to give people, for instance, under that swag category I would put whether they'd be water bottles, or [inaudible 00:06:28], or pieces like that. Food, obviously, is a huge piece. Those were the big, big, big costs, and when Dan and I looked at this and we said, "We want to create an amazing event," we didn't have budget in mind. That certainly doesn't mean we had an unlimited budget, but we were never going to sacrifice the quality of, say, the food, or the amount of food, or the amount of alcohol, or the amount of drinks, or whatever it might be, on account of our budget in that first year.
Steven Pulver:
We didn't really know where we were going with it, but kind of both said, "We're in, or we're not." And once we made that decision to go ahead, the budget, unfortunately looking back, it was really nonexistent.
Bobbi Rebell:
So where did you get the money from, the negative $30,000? Was it borrowed, were you putting it on credit cards?
Daniel Levine:
Yeah, so that was coming from our personal capital. Steven and I, we certainly didn't have $30,000 to blow away, but we were fortunate to have some savings, and we're very thankful for the support of our significant others, who saw that big bill come in at the end of the day and say that they had faith in us to really build something fantastic. And the only reason that we were able to swallow such a hit in our first year, was that we had a long term view. There's at least one component of that long term view, if not two, that were important to informing our decisions.
Daniel Levine:
One was, we knew we wanted to go larger than 60 or 75 people, we always thought that we'd be in the 300 to 400 person range. Knowing that, we also knew that our fixed costs were high, and our variable costs were quite low. So that actually was a huge point of leverage for us to look towards in future years, knowing that if we were able to focus on growing our membership and attendee base, that would end up covering our fixed costs, and since our variable costs are quite low, it wouldn't be linear and proportional, such that a 60 person conference would see us lose a similar amount of money as we would see in a 400 person conference. We always knew that if we grew enough, in future years we would be able to cover that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So what did you do then in year two, and what is the lesson for our listeners?
Daniel Levine:
Yeah, so two key things. One was, stay on the trajectory that we were on with our original vision. So we had to have faith in the fact, and quite honestly we could look to the spreadsheets to prove it, but we had faith in the fact that if we grew from 60 or 70 to 285, which is what we were in our second year, we would exceed those fixed costs-
Bobbi Rebell:
Which is phenomenal growth, by the way, that's amazing.
Daniel Levine:
It was. And that was something that we really didn't expect, but because we made that huge investment in the first year and put on a fantastic program, what happened on the Sunday when we came back into the city and got cell phone reception again, is our emails were filled, not just with responses from attendees, but from friends and friends of attendees who saw them tweeting and Instagraming about it, and saying, "How do I get an invite? How do I get involved?" So we were able to leverage a really amazing product into a very big growth year into our second year. So that was a very large component of being able to recoup things in our second year. But the other big factor was, we need more revenue streams. Because we knew we were going to grow, we knew we could also go after revenue streams at 285 that we couldn't go after at 60 or 70 people.
Daniel Levine:
So, for example, sponsorship, that was a brand new door that opened for us, and even though 285 is, let's say relatively small in the conference business, where you might have conferences with 10,000 or 20,000 people, we could now go to major brands and major companies and say, "We have 285 highly curated people that are industry leaders, top entrepreneurs, top individuals, we are going to give you an opportunity to do very deep and impactful experiential marketing activations with them, and as a result, these brands saw a lot of value and in turn sponsorship dollars started coming in, which supplemented the revenue that we were receiving through ticket sales.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I think that's an important lesson for our listeners, that you weren't just taking a check from anyone. Once you were in year two you were able to have that history of the content that people wanted, and the experience that people wanted, and you could select and curate, as you say, the 285 people. So it wasn't just any 285 people, it was people that really had value to the potential sponsors.
Daniel Levine:
Precisely, and that's magnetized quite a bit over the years, and we've really seen an exponential growth in the inbound requests to join us. Whereas in our first year, we were going out and selecting, each of us, 30 or so people from our networks to really beg to come up and experience this with us. We're now going to receive over 4000 applications from people all over the world to be one of 400 people to come and join us this September.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well that's amazing, congratulations. I want to move from there to our everyday money tip, because that also has to do with something that you do that other people can emulate, that was at first a misstep, and then you found the right way to do it and it's working for you.
Steven Pulver:
At the start of this new year, 2018, we said we would start doing dinners. So we basically hand selected both current attendees, who are attending for the first time this September in 2018, alumni, other people in the community that we wanted to join us, and we'd have dinners, and we would invite people to nice restaurants, certainly not over the top fancy restaurants, but nice restaurants here in Toronto, and we did a few in Boston, and Chicago, and other places. And we would basically bring people together for a night of eating and drinking, and just a good time connecting people.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's expensive though.
Steven Pulver:
Yeah. So we found out very quickly that that's very expensive, and that was built into our budget. We knew from the beginning we'd spend maybe $2000 at dinner, and we had built that in that we were going to do a few of these. So we'd earmarked that and we knew we were going to do it, but after a few dinners we realized that this was getting expensive, despite us being ready for that expense, but it wasn't really us. We loved the fact that we were connecting with people and having great meals and great conversation, but at one point Daniel actually turned to me and said, "Why don't we just do a few barbecues? Do you think maybe we could do it at your house?" And I said, "Absolutely we can so that."
Steven Pulver:
Next thing you know we got the barbecue all ready and went to our favorite butcher shop and got burgers, and basically created a barbecue that I'm actually staring at in my living room right now, we're about to host a barbecue in a hour or so from now, and we said, "We can do barbecues. We can so five or six of these a month, at a cost of maybe $200 a barbecue, max, and bring amazing people together and have the flexibility to not spend a lot of money, but actually get way more bang for our buck."
Bobbi Rebell:
And that's something a lot of people should take to heart, because we sometimes get so busy trying to impress other people, and in fact it's often more impressive to bring someone to your home. Certainly it creates a different kind of bond, a more special and more personal bond, and it is more budget friendly.
Steven Pulver:
Right, and I think it really does go to our core too, right? As both individuals and as a business where we want to connect with people in this kind of way, as opposed to some hoity-toity kind of restaurant that is just fundamental not us.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So it is on brand, as they say, and speaking of that, you've got conference number four this September.
Daniel Levine:
Yeah, we now have a hard cap at 400 attendees, particularly because for us community and authentic relationship is super important to us. We're going to have incredible folks like Jordan Harbinger, from The Jordan Harbinger Show, and Jason Calicanis, who is one of the most world renowned Angel investors, coming and joining us for the weekend. Disconnecting from technology up at summer camp, sitting around the fire pit, sharing stories about business and growth and leadership, and going water skiing and rock climbing while we're at it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Sounds amazing. Alright, where can people find out more, if you even have any spots, or get on the wait list for next year?
Steven Pulver:
So, we have just opened up our final 50 application spots, those are now officially open for application, so there is still room available to apply, and I would encourage any of your amazing listeners to visit firesideconf, C-O-N-F, .com, as in conference. We are always there as well, you'll see a little chat bubble, you can say hi to us and ask us any questions, or you can feel free to apply and just let us know that you're coming from this podcast and you'll immediately jump to the top of the line.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you both.
Daniel Levine:
Our pleasure, thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so many lessons here. Financial grownup tip number one; let's start with the guys everyday money tip, because that hits close to home. Don't assume you have to spend a ton of money to impress wealthy and successful people. The thing is, fancy people aren't impressed with fancy. There's a scene in a new show called Succession that I've been watching, where a character is trying to impress his future father-in-law, who is very wealthy. So he spends a crazy amount of money on a watch, but when he gives it to the man as a gift, he's trying to impress him remember, the fact is he is barely acknowledged, and in fact, the very wealthy future father-in-law later gives it away without much of a thought. Watching it was pretty sad, unfortunately there is some reality to that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Rich people don't need another fancy meal. Once Steven and Daniel realized this and started hosting barbecues at their own homes, they had a much better time connecting with the people that they wanted to impress. I mean, the conference is at a camp, that's who they are. They're real, they're down to earth, and they want to connect to their people in that way. It's refreshing. Not everything has to be in a five star hotel or restaurant.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Well, the fireside conference lost about £30,000 the first year because it was self-financed. The founders remained in control and did not face pressure from outside investors. Early stage businesses that can avoid taking outside investors retain control, something Daniel and Steven seems very happy about.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you enjoyed the show, tell a friend, or share on social media. On Twitter, I am @BobbiRebell, on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook @BobbiRebell, and please subscribe if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes. Thank you to Steven and Daniel for your candor and openness about the challenges and rewards of starting such an ambitious conference. I'm looking forward to watching The Fireside Conference continue to grow. So thank you gentlemen for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
High Fiving Dollars' Sarah Li Cain had a contract that said her company had to pay her medical costs, but when she got pregnant, she and her husband had to come up with a strategic plan to actually collect the cash they were owed. Plus her tips on how to make sure you get the luxuries you want in life, without feeling nickel and dime’d
In Sarah’s money story you will learn:
-The challenge Sarah faced when pregnant as a teacher in China
-How the healthcare system there required employees to pay upfront, and then fight to get re-imbursed
-The financial risk that created for Sarah and her colleagues
-How careful documentation helped to get her money back
-The technique Sarah used to negotiate with her employer and her boss for both her healthcare needs and those of her colleagues
In Sarah’s money lesson you will learn:
-That is is essential to read your contract when you take a job, and not assume it will provide things, even if it is the law.
-The importance of standing your ground when you are entitled to something.
In Sarah’s every day money tip you will learn:
-Why she is willing to pay more for homes that have the amenities that are important to her and her family
-The importance of building in value-add activities and facilities into your home or community, so you don’t have to spend extra cash to have services and other things that you value but might not pay for on an individual basis.
In My Take you will learn:
-The importance of documentation especially when you need to be re-imbursed by an employer
-The tools and apps I personally use for document management and scanning
-My take on lifestyle amenities where you live
-The crazy and outrageous amenities that may not be worth paying for in many cases
Episode Links
Learn more about Sarah at https://highfivingdollars.com/
Listen to her podcast with Garrett Philbin (from Be Awesome not Broke) Beyond the Dollar! https://highfivingdollars.com/podcast/
Follow Sarah Li Cain!
Twitter: @sarahlicain
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/highfivingdollars
Pinterest https://www.pinterest.com/sarahlicain/
The tools I use to store and track documents are
Dropbox dropbox.com
Evernote evernote.com
The App I use to scan documents is Jotnot https://www.jotnot.com/
Here’s a fun article from curbed.com on The Most outrageous amenities in NYC apartments https://ny.curbed.com/2017/12/18/16743830/nyc-outrageous-apartment-amenities-2017
Here is one from Elledecor.com on over the top amenities
https://www.elledecor.com/life-culture/fun-at-home/g14031044/over-the-top-amenities-nyc/
And here is one from Streeteasy.com on What Building Amenities to New Yorkers Want Most?
https://streeteasy.com/blog/nyc-building-amenities-top-10-most-popular/
Transcription
Sarah Li Cain:
I don't think they really thought it through if someone were to get pregnant because I chose to go with someone who was able to speak English because I don't speak Chinese and so they were pretty expensive. I think I racked up a total about $25,000.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. That was holistic money coach Sarah Li Cain of the blog High Fiving Dollars and the podcast Beyond the Dollar, taking a stroll down memory lane to a financial experience she'd probably rather forget. But she got through it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone and thanks for taking the time to join us here at Financial Grownup. We keep the shows on the short side so you can squeeze it into your busy day. But if you have more time, or are commuting, they are also meant to be listened to a few at a time. So when you subscribe, make sure the settings are at auto download and you will get three episodes each week.
Bobbi Rebell:
Back to Sarah. Her story is truly a financial grownup one because it begins with the birth of her first child which is a big life transition in and of itself, without all the financial responsibilities that comes with it, and she had to deal with a lot of money headaches. Here is Sarah Li Cain.
Bobbi Rebell:
Sarah Li Cain, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Sarah Li Cain:
Thank you so much for having me Bobbi. I'm a big fan.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh thank you, and I am a huge fan of yours ever since we met a couple of years ago actually at FinCon, which is a conference for content creators, because you were behind High Fiving Dollar and now the new Beyond the Dollar podcast. So congratulations on all of your success.
Sarah Li Cain:
Thank you so much.
Bobbi Rebell:
You are a holistic money coach. You also as I mentioned are a financial writer, and you are also someone who has worked all over the world, which brings us to the money story that you brought with you to share because it has to do with the time that you spent in China and something momentous that happened while you were there. Tell us.
Sarah Li Cain:
Yes, so actually spent a total about eight years in China. So before I was a writer and a money coach I was a elementary school teacher at a bunch of different international schools. My very last job, my husband and I found out that were pregnant. The interesting thing was in my contract the employer actually didn't pay for healthcare. So it's the employer legally has to provide you with healthcare, and so instead of actually giving us health insurance he had a little clause at the bottom of the contract that basically said we will reimburse 100% of any healthcare cost that you incur.
Bobbi Rebell:
That sounds really good.
Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah, it does, except if you don't have the money upfront and pay for that, then it makes it very difficult. And so for some of my coworkers-
Bobbi Rebell:
So you had to front the money?
Sarah Li Cain:
Yes. For some of my coworkers it was very difficult for them, number one, the ones who have children, they had to cover all their healthcare cost, and number two, I remember one of my coworkers had ... It wasn't major surgery but it was fairly big. She actually [inaudible 00:03:28] having to borrow money to cover that, until the employer was willing to basically reimburse it.
Bobbi Rebell:
So wait. Was it a situation where you would have to pay out of pocket and then basically fight to get reimbursed?
Sarah Li Cain:
Yes, exactly. So as long you had the receipt in theory they were going to pay you back. I don't think they really thought it through if someone were to get pregnant because healthcare is fairly cheap in China, but I chose to go with someone who was able to speak English because I don't speak Chinese and so they were pretty expensive. So I think I racked up a total about $25,000 American, including the birth, including the prenatal and postnatal care.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you had to forward that money, you had to pay that, and then try to get reimbursed?
Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah. One thing I did try to do was as the receipts payments, so every month when I'd have my prenatal appointments I would just sent, forward the receipt to my ... the owner of the school. Then the principal and I sat down and I said, "Listen, you know this is going to get really expensive. I'm going forward the boss or the owner a big, big bill, probably at least 10 grand after all of my prenatal appointments. He's going to have to be very careful because he's going to make sure, like, he's going to have that money and give it me." The principal and I actually worked together and figured out a way to approach the owner and how we were ... She was going to help me get that. The principal was going to help me get that money back.
Bobbi Rebell:
Was the school which is almost an independent school that did not have big financial resources, was that part of the issue why you were worried they wouldn't have the money?
Sarah Li Cain:
Part of it was the owner was new. I think he had taken over that school maybe for about a year, and number two, he's been, and this like anecdotal evidence, I haven't directly heard him say this but he's always mentioned about try to pay as little as possible for the foreign staff as he called us, and so I kind of knew that if I slapped him with this $25,000 bill that he'd probably pretty shocked and would try to find a way out of it.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what happened?
Sarah Li Cain:
I actually added up, I predicted all the cost for the birth and everything like that and I forwarded it to my principal. Then again the principal and I sat down and we basically said, "Okay, what's the best case scenario, what's the worst case, where can we meet in the middle with him." So we kind of came up with different ways to negotiate with him. The best case was he gives all that money back to me in one go. The second the best was if he paid in installments. And the worst case he refused.
Sarah Li Cain:
But I also said, "Hey, listen, I'm a great employee," and I actually calculated how many students that I brought into the school, so it kind of proved to him that like, hey, I'm helping you make money so therefore this little $25,000 expense wasn't that expensive in the grand scheme of things. What happened then was my principal then forwarded all of this information to the owner of the school and he actually agreed and was like, "Okay, I will pay all this back, I'll reimburse you as soon as you provide all the bills."
Bobbi Rebell:
And did they?
Sarah Li Cain:
Yes. So they did try to fight us a little bit. After my son was born my husband was the one to submit all the bills and so. Then they negotiated with him and said, "Well, we can't pay all this all at once. Is there some way we can just pay you back in increments?" So they did I think pay us the money back in about five installments but we did end up getting all the money back.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, that's great. But you used this to actually make broader changes.
Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah. The funny thing was I had no idea that my principal was trying to fight for everyone to get free health insurance. Again, the owner of the school had to legally provide this. She actually ended up using the large medical bill to say to the owner, was like, "Hey, listen, what if another one of your employees gets pregnant. That's like a huge cost," and then she actually presented him with different health insurance options in China and how it ended up being cheaper. And so because of what happened with me, the entire staff actually got free health insurance afterwards.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So how did you feel during this time? I mean you're pregnant, you're having to fight for all this stuff. What were your coworkers saying?
Sarah Li Cain:
It was really interesting. My coworkers didn't necessarily directly ask me about the money side of things because I think in their mind they're like, "Oh man, Sarah's really going to have to fight for this money because the owner is such a cheapskate," as they called him. I was really thankful because ... So my husband and I worked together, and so he really advocated for me when I couldn't, like when I was out on maternity leave and when I was just too tired to really say anything. So he would push me like, "No, listen, Sarah, you have to fight this," or he would go in himself and then talk to the principal which I found out later that he did, and say like, "Here, how can we negotiate all of this?" If it wasn't for his support, I probably wouldn't be able to keep pursuing the money.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?
Sarah Li Cain:
The lesson is number one, read your contract, and number two, stand your ground. If it says in your contract that you're supposed to get something, then fight for it because it's written down, it's not a verbal contract, it's a written contract, so definitely pursue it, and get as much support as you need in order to pursue it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back is there anything you would've done different yourself?
Sarah Li Cain:
No, not at all.
Bobbi Rebell:
And Sarah, that brings us to your everyday money tip which also kind of has to do with your health and wellness.
Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah. One of the things I really strive to do is that whenever my husband and I are renting a new place, or when we're looking for a new apartment, we always make sure the kind of amenities there are. We're always looking for somewhere with a gym, how easy it is to walk from let's say the supermarket or my son's preschool, if there's a swimming pool, and just anything else where we don't have to spend extra money. For example, an apartment that we just rented is actually a five minute walk to my son's preschool, it's a few minutes walk to a couple of supermarkets, it's actually closer to my husband's work, it's got a gym, it's got a swimming pool, it's got a playground for my son. So we're effectively saving thousands of dollars a year because now that I can walk with my son to preschool, I don't need a second car. I can just walk again to the supermarket when I need to. I'm saving money on membership fees, things like that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. All right, Sarah, tell us more about what you're up to. I know you have started season two of your podcast.
Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah. So Beyond the Dollar I co-host it with another money coach, Garrett Philbin. We're just having a lot of fun. We discuss a lot of issues that go literally beyond the dollar, just not practical finance tips, but more of the deeper how money really affects your well being. You can also find me in High Fiving Dollars. I talk a lot about my personal life there. If you have any questions, I love answering reader questions there as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Sarah.
Sarah Li Cain:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that Sarah and her husband paid it forward fighting for everyone else to have real health insurance even after they had won their own battle. Financial Grownup tip number one, whenever you know you're going to need to be reimbursed, as was the case with Sarah and her husband, document everything and make sure you have backups including electronic backups. I happen to use Evernote and Dropbox for storage, and I use an app called JotNot as a mobile scanner, and from that app I can upload to the Evernote and/or Dropbox accounts.
Bobbi Rebell:
Make sure you follow up on getting reimbursed, and on bills sometimes the way that the healthcare system is set up may not be as well-run as you would necessarily expect. If you want to learn more about the dangers of what can happen if you're not on top of these things, check out my interview with Chris Browning of the Popcorn Finance podcast. Just go to bobbirebell.com/podcast/chrisbrowning.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, let's talk about lifestyle amenities because I know Sarah's a big fan of them. She makes this a priority. There's an upside and there's a downside. If you have amenities built into your rent or your home cost, you don't have to worry that if money gets tight or you just have a lot of expenses coming up or you're feeling uneasy about your financial situation, you're not going to feel pressured to say take a break from the gym. On the other hand, they do add to your overhead in most cases and if you're not going to use certain amenities, you need to factor that in and be honest with yourself.
Bobbi Rebell:
For example, just about all of us can at least make the argument that we can make good use of a gym. We might blow it off in reality, but we can at least make the case. That might be worth paying for when you're looking for a new residence, especially if it's in a community or an apartment building that has a really nice one. But if you don't have young kids, something like a playground does not add value to your life.
Bobbi Rebell:
Those are pretty mainstream amenities, but some buildings can even have quirky amenities that sound so cool like wine cellars, relaxation lounges, climbing walls, hydrotherapy circuits, bowling allies, pet spas, and of course dog training studio, something we all look for. They are designed to wow buyers and renters, but just because something looks super cool when you're checking out the residence, doesn't mean it's something that you're going to actually use. If they deliver value for you, that's great. But some are just gimmicky and can up the prices. By the way, if you want to read about some of the crazy things happening in the amenities business, I'm going to leave a few fun articles about hot new amenities in the show notes for you guys.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you have not already hit that Subscribe button so you don't miss any upcoming episodes, remember, the episodes are short, about 15 minutes, so if you want to listen for longer, there are three new episodes every week so you can easily binge on a bunch if you have a long commute or you're just running errands and you want a little more content.
Bobbi Rebell:
Be in touch. I am on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and on Facebook @bobbirebell, and of course DM me your feedback on the podcast. Thanks to Sarah Li Cain and her growing family for helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Jessi Fearon lives her Real Life on a Budget- but getting her husband in line when he saw a great sale on Fireworks was still a challenge. Plus her tips on how she got her book buying obsession under control!
In Jessi’s money story you will learn:
-Why her husband blew the budget on fireworks!
-How he tried to avoid telling her about the splurge
-How she reacted when she found out he spent more on fireworks than on their wedding
-What her husband’s buddies had to say about the situation
-What else the Fearon’s could have bought with the money he spent on the fireworks
-The upside of the incident: they had their first big money talk as a couple
-The mindset that allowed Jessi to forgive her husband, and give him a roadmap for handing future temptations
In Jessi’s money lesson you will learn:
-Tools to put in play if you are a saver married to a spender
-How to better understand and manage the mindset of an unintentional spender
-Specific ways Jessi and her husband set and execute financial priorities
-Exactly how much money Jessi now gives her husband when he goes shopping for fireworks
In Jessi’s every day money tip you will learn:
-How Jessi spent over $250 in one year on books on Amazon.com
-How she was tempted to spend more than she realized
-How Jessi rediscovered the library
In my take you will learn:
-Why approaching well-intentioned overspenders in a non-judgemental way can be effective in helping them to adjust their behavour
-Specific pitfalls that trigger us into spending more than we planned, and how to counteract them
-How to understand the mindset of consumers who fall into the trap of spending more than they planned because of well-designed targeted sales tactics
-The benefits of having intentional discussions with anyone with whom you have shared finances.
Episode Links:
Learn more about Jessi’s blog jessifearon.com
Get Jessi’s new free five-day money challenge
Follow Jessi!
Instagram @jessifearon
Twitter @Jessifearon
Facebook @JessiFearon
Transcription
Jessi Fearon:
They were having to buy two, get two free. And so he just kept buying stuff, and he said, “I didn't even pay attention when I checked out how much it was”. They looked at the receipt, and his buddy was like, “dude, you seriously spent $700 on fireworks”.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Happy 4th of July, my friends, we have a special just for Independence Day money story. Thanks to our friend Jessi Fearon from Real Life on a Budget. Hopefully you are relaxing and not at work today. If you're joining us for the first time, welcome. Glad to have our returning folks as well, and thank you all for the DMs and the social sharing that's been going on. It's been so fun watching the show continue to gain traction, and we have you guys to thank. So, thank you. Hopefully, like I said, you're getting some time off this holiday week. For mom, Jessi Fearon, who is also an accountant, by the way. She celebrates every 4th of July with her husband, her family, and her friends in Georgia. And her husband is in her words, a total pyro. He loves his fireworks. So much so that he blew the budget, literally, which is not going to fly when your wife runs a blog called Real Life on a Budget. Here is Jessi Fearon.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jessi Fearon, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Jessi Fearon:
Well, thank you Bobbi, I appreciate you having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I am a huge fan of your blog, Real Life on a Budget, because you get very real. So, congratulations on the success of all that.
Jessi Fearon:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you manage it down in Georgia with three kids, which is pretty cool.
Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Yes. My sweet three children that can drive me crazy sometimes, but are such a blessing at the same time.
Bobbi Rebell:
And not to be forgotten, your husband, who ... This is ... Okay, little bit of trivia here, so your wedding, for fans of your blog, they already know this. Your wedding cost all of $500.
Jessi Fearon:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
But, your husband spent even more, more than ... Your husband spent more than your entire wedding budget on fireworks. So this is an episode that we're going to drop in honor of July 4th. You have the ultimate July 4th money story. Go for it, Jessi.
Jessi Fearon:
Okay, well, a real quick little just background. It was our first year as a married couple. So we decided that we were going to celebrate the 4th of July with a good old American barbecue. And at the time our state, Georgia. You couldn't buy fireworks in the state of Georgia. You had to go outside the state. And so my husband and his buddies, they load up the truck, and they take the two hour trek over to Alabama. They buy fireworks, and they come back. And I'll never forget it. Me and my girlfriends were watching the truck pull in, and it literally looked like the Clampetts coming down the road. There were so many fireworks in the bed of this truck, it was insane. I mean, I even commented to one of the friends, I was like, "oh my goodness, it looks like they just bought fireworks enough for town hall to shoot off tonight". And so as I'm walking up to the truck, my husband's friends had this look on their face.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, oh. Like this guilty look?
Jessi Fearon:
Yeah. It's like they didn't want to talk to me, they didn't wanna look at me. It was almost like they were afraid they were gonna witness a murder or something, like they just didn't want to talk to me. And I was like, okay. And so I kind of made a joke to one of them. I said, "good mighty, how much did y'all spend"? And the one friend goes, "oh no, it wasn't us". "It was not y'all, it was your husband". What? I look over at my husband, I'm like, "honey, how much did you spend"? And so he starts going to this big deal about how they had this great sale, that it was like, buy two, get two free, and blah blah blah. And I'm like, "okay honey, how much did you spend"? And he was like, "oh, we'll talk about it later". So in my mind I'm thinking, okay, he spent a lot of money. He spent probably like $200. I'm thinking that's an insane amount of money. How could you spent $200 on fireworks, right?
Bobbi Rebell:
So you're guessing he splurged and spent about $200.
Jessi Fearon:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
What happens next?
Jessi Fearon:
I cornered my husband and I finally got him to tell me how much she spent. But he spent $702.48 on fireworks. And I literally couldn't believe it. I thought he was joking. I kept looking at him like, what? No you did not. That's our rent money. How could you spend $700 on fireworks? And I was so mad, and so upset, I didn't scream and yell, but it was one of those things where you could just tell that I was really upset about this. I couldn't talk to anybody anymore. I was like, how could you spend $700 on fireworks?
Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and to put that in context too, you do disclose some of your budgeting and your expenses online, but give us a high level, what would $700 buy in the Fearon household in a typical month?
Jessi Fearon:
That would have bought groceries for about three months at that time, because it was just the two of us. So that would have bought groceries for about three months. That would have paid the one car payment that we had for two months. It would have definitely covered utilities probably for about six months, at the time. And it was in fact our rent money. So it was quite the expense. It definitely was not planned. I really did not think my husband was going to spend that much money. To say that my husband's a pyro is a little bit of an understatement. He likes to blow stuff up.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what happened next? You have this talk.
Jessi Fearon:
Yes. So the next morning, I remember I was still so mad. I could not believe it. And the thing is, that you can't return fireworks. It's a nonrefundable sale. So, it's not like we could take back any fireworks, because I mean, again, my husband bought so many fireworks, we couldn't even shoot them all off that one night. We had to shoot them off on Labor Day and then on New Year's Day, because there were so many still left. I remember we were cleaning up from the party and we were putting all the fireworks that were left over in the garage. I remember, I was so, so mad, and I kept thinking like, I just wanna scream, I just want to yell. But then the more and more I thought about it, I thought, okay, if I just scream and yell we're not going to get anywhere in this conversation. So why don't I just kind of calm down and take my emotions out of it, and talk to him about this, because I really need to know why he would spend $700. I was raised in a very frugal household, and you don't spend $700 on fireworks. Only people with yachts spend $700 on fireworks. Why would you do this? And so I remember I just kind of turned around to my husband and I was like, "this was a lot of fireworks". And he goes, "it kind of is, isn't it"? "I went a little overboard, didn't I"? And I was like, "yeah honey, you went a little overboard". "So you want to tell me about this because this was a lot of money you spent". This is the first time that I really got to see how, because I'm a saver, my husband's a spender. And so this is first time I got to see how kind of a spender, for him anyways, rationalized his purchase. And it was because of that really awesome sale they were having. They were having to buy two, get two free. And so he just kept buying stuff. And he said, "I didn't even pay attention when I checked out how much it was". He said, it wasn't until we were halfway home that one of his buddies had asked how much did you spend? And they looked at the receipt, and his buddy was like, "dude, you seriously spent $700 on fireworks". And my husband couldn't believe it. He didn't even think it was going to be that much money because he thought he was saving a whole bunch of money. So for us this was the first real money conversation that we actually had as a married couple. We had been married for almost a year. Our anniversary is July 24th. And so we had been married for almost a year at this point, and this is the first time that we really sat down and talked about money, because even though we knew one day we wanted to have kids, or one day we wanted to buy a house, we had no plans for any of that. And so, this situation kind of pushed us into actually having to sit down and have a conversation about money, and we started realizing, okay, if we don't come together and be a team on this, there's going to be more and more $700 expenses on random stuff that isn't important, because he certainly wasn't the only one spending money. He just happened to spend a lot of money at one time, versus where, our day to day lives, we were spending little increments of money here and there, without thinking about it. And I think that it really for us kind of showed us that it compounded on itself to this one big $700 purchase where we went into it with no plan to attack at all. So it was quite the interesting thing. And I forgave my husband, obviously, we've been married now for nine years. So I forgave him, and it's kind of become our epic story for our family, about my husband's $700 expense.
Bobbi Rebell:
So looking back, I guess it's about eight years later. What is the lesson for our listeners?
Jessi Fearon:
One, if you are married to a spender, always remember to give a grace, because a lot of times spenders don't recognize that they're spending so much money, because they believe that they're saving money because of the sale. And a lot times spenders are really good at finding the bargains. They really are great at that. And just like spenders always get upset with the saver, when they want to save a bunch of money and not spend it. And so for us it came down to finding that balancing act between being a saver and a spender, and having the honest money conversation where we decided together, okay, how much are we going to spend, how much are we going to save? What is the best of both worlds? And it came down to us writing down what our financial goals were, which was saving for a house, paying off debt, and saving an emergency fund. And all of that. So we were able to put those into the budget, but then we were also able to put in spending money for my husband to go and spend money because he still buys fireworks every 4th of July. And he still spends more than probably what most people would. But now it's a planned thing, and he just gets to carry cash. He has to leave the debit card at home, so he can't go crazy in the firework store anymore.
Bobbi Rebell:
So how much cash is he getting this year in 2018?
Jessi Fearon:
Like I said, it's still more than normal, what most people would spend, but it's $150 that he gets to buy whatever fireworks he wants. So then he can go blow them up all that he wants to.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about your money tip, because you've gone over budget with things as well. Especially one of your pleasures, which is reading.
Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Oh my goodness. Yes. And like I said, my husband's definitely not the only one that's at fault. I had spent well over $250 in one year on Amazon buying books. And I kind of didn't even realize it because I think Prime makes it so easy. And so does Kindle, where your just buying books, and you see the deals, and you're like, oh my gosh, I wanted to read that book. So let me get that one. Oh, Amazon suggests this book. Okay. I like that one.
Bobbi Rebell:
But you were actually reading the books?
Jessi Fearon:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Because sometimes people buy and they don't read.
Jessi Fearon:
No, I was definitely reading them, because I love, love to read. I read on average of about four book a month, sometimes more, sometimes less. But I just love to read. And here I was just buying all these books and reading, and reading, and getting excited about it. And then when I finally, I usually do, my husband and I will sit down every year and we kind of do a big annual spending review, where we literally look at how much we spent in every single category. And what we spent it on. And when I kinda sat down and realized just how much I had spent in one year on books, I was like, oh. This is my fireworks story, isn't it? I'm like, okay. we got to do something, and so I rediscovered the library. And that has kept me in check this past year so far. So it's been wonderful. I've been able to feed my guilty pleasure without a completely wrecking our budget this time.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. All right. Tell us more about what you are up to. I know you've got some new courses on tap.
Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Right now I have a free five day money challenge. All about things that you can do for the next five days. It's only about 10 minutes, 10 minutes or less a day that you can do right now. These steps that will help you to be able to start managing your money better. It will get you started on the right path to taking control over your money, and to stop letting money control you, and start putting you at the helm of your finances.
Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. And where can people find out more about you and your blog?
Jessi Fearon:
They can find me at jessifearon.com, and on Instagram, twitter, and Facebook at Jesse Fearon. I'm constantly on Instagram trying to just share all the little snippets of our real life and all of its imperfect details. Everything for my husband working his side hustle here recently to buy a new boat motor, and our [inaudible 00:12:03] vacation that we go on for the cheap.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much and have a great 4th of July.
Jessi Fearon:
Well, thank you Bobbi. You too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay everyone, one thing that Jessi said really resonated when she talked about how a saver, like herself, can better understand a spender, and it has to do with the mindset of the spenders. Financial grownup tip number one. Jessi says, if you're married or in a relationship to a spender, always remember, give them grace. Many spenders are well intentioned, and go off track thinking in that moment when they're making the buying decision, that they're saving money. Seeing a two for one sale sets off a feeling of excitement. So many of us have fallen into buying more of an item than we intended because of the way the seller has priced it. They're smart, they know what they're doing. It sometimes is a better deal. In fact, never once did Jessi criticize the fact that the per firework price of what her husband bought wasn't a deal. He may have gotten good value. He just spent too much. She gets it. And I love her empathy and understanding. By figuring out the mindset of her husband, she was able to steer him on a healthier path and give him the tools. Okay, and also she gave him restricted cash on a budget this year, to resist the next great deal, rather than just screaming at him that he blew the budget.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Jessi also talks about the fact that this was the very first time the two of them had really sat down and intentionally talked about money. They didn't have kids yet, but they were newlyweds and they had no plan. So if you're in a relationship that involves shared financial resources, maybe have a little chat. If you are not already, please hit that subscribe button, and if you are listening on Apple Podcast or iTunes, please rate the podcast and leave a review. They really matter. Also, if you like the show, just tell a friend to check us out as well. And thanks to Jessi for giving us such a great Independence Day story. Let's all go out and celebrate with our friends and family. Maybe take Jessi's advice, and read a good book. Libraries are great. Also though, it's also nice to buy books on occasion, because we want to support our authors and value what they contribute as well. Authors need to make a living. So, it's a balance. Be sure to check out Real Life on a Budget and Jessi's great free course. I will leave links to both in the show notes. And thank you Jessi for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
Andy Hill was so in love with his then future wife that he literally used his student loan money to buy her the ring she wanted- and oops did not tell her. He shares what happened when she did find out, and what he would do differently now that he is a financial grownup. Bonus: His tips on how to start a 529 account for your kids.
In Andy’s money story you will learn:
-The big mistake Andy made with his student loan
-The emotional backdrop to that mistake
-Why Andy did not talk to his girlfriend (now wife) about the decision
-His biggest regrets and what he would do differently
In Andy’s money lesson you will learn:
-The options Andy wish he had considered
-His advice on the best ways to communicate about money in a relationship
In Andy’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-HIs take on 529 plans and how he did his research
-The factors to consider in choosing a 529 plan
-Why Andy chose his plan for his children’s college savings
In my take you will learn:
-How to plan for expenses related to life events, like getting married!
-The cost of not just engagement rings, but weddings as well
-Recent changes to how 529 plans can be used
-Resources to get more information about 529 plans
Episode Links
Andy’s website:
Marriagekidsandmoney.com
Get Andy’s e-book : Young family wealth playbook
Listen to Andy’s podcast!
Follow Andy!!
Twitter @andyhillmkm
Instagram: @AndyHill 827
Facebook @andyhillMKM
Learn more about 529’s:
Link to the SEC website:
https://www.sec.gov/reportspubs/investor-publications/investorpubsintro529htm.html
Link to the FINRA website Saving for College
http://www.finra.org/investors/saving-college
College Savings Plans Network
http://www.collegesavings.org/
SAVING FOR COLLEGE
https://www.savingforcollege.com/intro-to-529s/what-is-a-529-plan
Transcription
Andy Hill:
I took advantage of these student loans that I was using for my MBA program at the time, and just took a little bit extra from my student loans in order to pay for my wife's engagement ring. That's kind of how I started off my marriage with a little bit of debt, also with a little bit of love, as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, they say love is blind. That was certainly true for our guest today. Before we get to him, quick welcome to everyone, especially our new folks, we keep the episodes, just so you know, to around 15 minutes. You can fit it easily into your busy schedule while you're running errands and so on.
Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of regulars, though, say they enjoy listening to a few at a time, especially if they are commuting. The idea, do what works for you. You get to hear an inspiring, and hopefully entertaining money story, and then get some specific advice, money tips, things that you could do right away.
Bobbi Rebell:
Today's story is definitely entertaining, heartwarming, but you also might get that sinking feeling in your stomach, like, "Oh, no! He did not!" We've all been there, so into our loved ones that we just want to get them exactly what they want. Budgets, whatever, we find the money, even if we find it in our student loans? Yes, I'm talking to you, Andy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's roll the interview.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Andy Hill, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Andy Hill:
Thanks so much for having me, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your podcast, marriage, kids, and money. Nominated for the most important podcast awards that there are, the 2017 Plutus Awards. You were nominated for best new personal finance podcast, so congratulations!
Andy Hill:
Thank you so much, yeah. It was a great honor, and look forward to keep on bringing exciting material for all those people out there who are married with kids that love talking about money, or just want to give their families a better opportunity in the future.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I am a hopeless romantic, in addition to focusing on money, and you brought with you a money story that is both romantic and financial, having to do with your engagement. Tell us what happened.
Andy Hill:
Yeah, so back in, oh, this is maybe in my mid-twenties, I met an incredible girl named Nicole and fell in love with her. When you fall in love and you start to see the opportunity for marriage coming up, the first you think of, as a guy is, "Man, I got to get this ring thing going."
Andy Hill:
Me, not making that much money at the time, was probably making $35,000 a year, I said, "Well, I better start saving a little bit of money to make this thing happen." Unfortunately, since we were dating long distance from California to Michigan, my bank account was a little light, we'll say, but my love for her was continuing to grow. I know I had to take advantage of this moment and go for this engagement.
Andy Hill:
We looked at rings together at the store, and we found the ring that she liked, with the type of the style, I found out it was about $5,000.
Bobbi Rebell:
Ouch!
Andy Hill:
Yeah. That was about $4,500 more than I had.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Andy Hill:
I decided to go for it anyway because I was in love, and I wanted to move this thing forward. The way that I went about it was I took advantage of these student loans that I was using for my MBA program at the time, and just took a little bit extra from my student loans in order to pay for my wife's engagement ring. That's kind of how I started off my marriage with a little bit of debt, also with a little bit of love, as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness. That is such a big no-no though. Let me just ask you, taking it back a little, did it occur to you to either wait and save up more, or maybe downsize the ring a little bit, or find ... I don't know if that was maybe the best interest rate you could get on student loans versus taking out a different kind of loan. It's certainly better than a credit card, we know that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Any other considerations at the time?
Andy Hill:
Oh yeah, Bobbi. All these things I could've done better. Could've gotten a better opportunity to get a lower interest rate than ... I think it was 6.8% that I was paying for my student loans. I could've maybe spoken to my wife ... my future wife about it a little bit about the- [inaudible 00:04:43][crosstalk 00:04:43]
Bobbi Rebell:
So, she didn't know about this, she did not know that you went into debt to get her ring.
Andy Hill:
Nope.
Bobbi Rebell:
What would she have said if she knew?
Andy Hill:
I believe that she would've said, "That's not a good idea. We can either wait, or we can look at something that's a little bit more feasible for your actual budget."
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, but you did not talk to her, so that's also a lesson. Just to point out. That's one of the things you talk about a lot on your podcast, is the communication aspect.
Andy Hill:
Absolutely. I preach about it all day long, but did I do it back in my mid-twenties? No. I did not. Definitely having communication with your spouse, or your future spouse is an incredible way to start the marriage, and I definitely did not do that.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you can get into the mind of 27-year-old Andy, what were you thinking at the time?
Andy Hill:
What I was thinking was, "I'm in love, and I want to make this thing happen as soon as possible. She's shown me the type of ring that she wants, and I want to make her happy." Unfortunately, I didn't think about any of the other consequences that went along with that: the interest rate, not speaking to my future wife about something that's super important. That could've been a really pivotal moment for us, actually, to speak about something that important, and I passed it up, for sure.
Bobbi Rebell:
When did she find out? Assuming it's not now, listening to this podcast? When did she find out when you had done that?
Andy Hill:
She found out about the debt that I had, as well as the ring situation a little after we got married when-
Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. The debt you had in addition to the ring. What was the other debt you had? You had $4,500 from the ring, and then what else?
Andy Hill:
It was all these student loans that I had, it was about $40,000 of student loans total, as well as a home equity line of credit, which probably equated to another $10,000, so about $50,000.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, go on.
Andy Hill:
Yeah, yeah, so we got married, and then with that comes the merging of the finances, right? As we were merging finances we started to have the conversations then about what my debt situation was, and what her debt situation was, and then it became our problem, and something that we worked on together, but she didn't realize until then, "Oh, so I'm now paying off the ring that you bought for me."
Bobbi Rebell:
"I'm paying off my own engagement ring. Thank you very much."
Andy Hill:
How romantic, right?
Bobbi Rebell:
That's so romantic. No. No, no, no, no. Quickly tell us how did it resolve? How did you pay all that off?
Andy Hill:
Well, yeah, so we got together and we made a plan to pay it off. We started to talk about potentially having kids in the future, and we said, "Hey, well, let's work together and pay this off." Combined we were making a little bit over six figures in a salary. We said, "All right, let's live on half, and pay this off as fast as possible," and we were able to clobber it in about 12 months.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from that now that you're a wise, wise old man in your thirties?
Andy Hill:
Yeah, I would say communication as early as possible in your relationship, especially when it comes to money is so important. The opportunity that I did not take advantage of was to speak to my future wife about, "Hey, this ring that you want, I love it, you love it, it would make you feel great, but I just don't have the money right now in order to make this happen. We can either delay our marriage in order to get the ring, or we can look at something that's a little bit more feasible."
Andy Hill:
That would've been a very good financial grownup conversation to have with her at that point in our marriage, for sure. Communication and just working on things as a married couple before you're even married shows the true partnership before you get into it.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love the money tip that you're going to share, because we kind of moved things forward now to the mindset of being parents, which you now are. You have two children, ages six and four. That means time to think about college and getting ready. It's never too early. Tell us your money tip.
Andy Hill:
Absolutely. When we got married we decided to have children, and one of the things as we started to get our financial grownup selves together was, "Hey, if we're gonna be helping our kids get through college we got to start saving now."
Andy Hill:
We started researching 529 programs, and the cool thing about 529 programs is that you don't have to take advantage of the one that's specifically in your state. There are other programs that maybe have lower fees to consider. We did a broad research of all the programs that were available to us in the U.S.
Andy Hill:
We ended up going with our state, because it had good fees, or lower fees, through TIAA-CREF, and actually, there was a great state income tax break, as well, that helps us save a little bit of money each year as we donate into ... as we contribute into our kids' college fund.
Andy Hill:
I guess my tip would be, take a look at all the opportunities that you have to save for your kids through a 529 program, start as early as possible, but definitely take a look at the fees that are associated with it, because some of the programs might have higher fees, and they might not even be in your state.
Andy Hill:
Taking a look at that, as well as getting an understanding of the tax advantages of utilizing a 529 with your state. It's a great way to save, and it's a great way to prepare for the future college costs that we're all looking for as parents.
Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely, and I also want to just ask you quickly before we wrap up about your E-book.
Andy Hill:
Yes, have a E-book on my site called The Young Family Wealth Playbook. It is an amalgamation of all these interviews that I've done on my podcast from the 50+ self-made millionaires, financial independent rock stars, and personal finance experts, and I've taken all that information that will help individuals who are reading it to look at what they can do, all the way from the start of marriage, all the way to being parents and helping your family to build wealth.
Andy Hill:
It's seven steps that I've taken from those conversations, and it'll walk people through how they can grow wealth and create a great future for their family.
Bobbi Rebell:
So cool. Tell us where people can find you, social handles, all that good stuff.
Andy Hill:
Excellent, yeah, so I'm at marriagekidsandmoney.com. On that site you'll be able to check out the podcast, The Young Family Wealth Playbook, as well as my blog. I'm also very busy on Twitter: @andyhillmkm. I'd love to have some conversations, and thanks for checking it out.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Andy.
Andy Hill:
Excellent. Thanks so much, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, Andy. We can't help but be charmed by you, even though I can't believe you did that. So glad you clearly are a financial grownup now, and even more happy that your wife is still there with you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one: remember, the ring is just the beginning of the cost of your trip down the aisle, so if you blow your budget on that, oh my goodness. According The Knot, Americans spend an average of $6,351 on just the wedding ring.
Bobbi Rebell:
In Andy's case, given that he got married a few years ago, Andy was relatively in line at the $5,000 mark. If you want to stretch for that, that's fine, but you got to keep in mind what's coming next. The wedding. The average cost of a wedding, according to The Knot, again, is over $33,000, and, of course, in New York City, couples spend even more, almost $77,000, so that's a choice. But, think about it, if you are going to spend that kind of cash, make those decisions as a couple. Andy admits he messed up by not talking to his wife.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two: 529s are a great resource for parents, and if you are sending kids to private school, you now can use them for that, as well, but there are a lot of rules, and you need to play by those rules, or you're gonna get stuck. You're gonna pay higher fees than needed, as Andy warned, you also may have penalties if you try to get the money in a non-qualified way.
Bobbi Rebell:
I will leave a link to the sec.gov website that has a very easy and straightforward explainer article. Read it. I'm gonna leave some other helpful links, as well. You need to do your homework on this, because you may not be able to get to the money in the way you want, when you want, without the penalties, so just do it with your eyes open.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for joining us. If you like the promo videos that you are seeing on social media you can win one. Just share them in social media when you see them. I'll be making one for a lucky winner in July, basically based on whoever shares the most.
Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast, and, of course, stay in touch by following me on Twitter: @bobbirebell, on Instagram: @bobbirebell1.
Bobbi Rebell:
Andy, you truly became a financial grownup by learning your lesson. Glad it all worked out for you and the wife, and now your children. Thank you for helping us all get once step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
Invested author and podcast host Danielle Town talks candidly about her sometimes painful family money history and how she and her dad healed their relationship, and eventually teamed up to educate others about money and investing.
Danielle's money story:
Danielle Town:
Yeah, when I was about 11 my parents split up. My dad is an investor, he's very well known. My mom was a stay at home homemaker. Mom, they split up, and often when people do that the money is a huge issue. The money was a huge issue for us. They went into a major divorce war. My dad left and he took the money with him. You know, as an adult now I can kind of see what happened there, but at the time I had no clue. I just knew that my dad was gone, and that we had to leave our house, and my mom had to go get a job. Everything changed. We had no money except for necessities.
Danielle Town:
It really affected me and I didn't really understand how much until I started doing ... My dad, just to close that loop. My dad came back, they ended up working things out without lawyers actually, and have now a very good relationship.
Bobbi Rebell:
How long was that period though when things were in disarray?
Danielle Town:
It was a couple years. It was pretty bad for a while.
Bobbi Rebell:
And what did your mom do just to fill in the blank there? She was a homemaker, what did she end up doing for those few years?
Danielle Town:
Well, she was a trained teacher so she went back to teaching fifth grade in the school that we were at actually. You know, she had a skill and she was able to go and do that, but it was just a huge change for us, and she's now a school psychologist, and went back to school, and is doing incredibly well, so she's fantastic. And my dad and I obviously repaired our relationship, but we never talked about money stuff ever. It wasn't until I was in my early thirties, I was a corporate lawyer, and I was starting to make a little bit of money, and I thought, oh, my gosh, what do I do? And I did not want to talk to my dad at all, but I finally ... He was the only person I knew to ask, so I finally turned to him, I said, "What do I do?" And he said, "You have to learn how to invest," which was exactly what I knew he was going to say, and I wanted to avoid it so much, but through various pressures. I was ill, I was exhausted, and I needed to find a way to not be dependent on my salary, and he was the only person I could talk to about that, so we started our podcast together. I started learning about investing, and you can literally hear my entire journey from beginning to now.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, yeah. You're very candid on the podcast, which I love also. You mentioned that during the time that this was happening you didn't understand that much, but looking back you do see more of what was going on. Can you share a little bit about that from a financial and emotional perspective?
Danielle Town:
Exactly. I think we avoid so much money pain. I mean, money is different then anything else. Money is so much emotionally about our worth. It's about our worth to our family members, what we can actually bring home to help them financially. It's about our worth at work, what we're actually paid in salary. It's about our worth to our communities, how much can we devote to charity? How much can we support the people around us? I mean, money is intimately intertwined with how we feel and our emotions, and I think we need much more emotional vulnerability around money. I'm actually doing a Ted Talk about this in about a month, at the beginning of July, and it's such an important thing that we need to get going with because if we can change this avoidance that I felt, and that so many of us feel, we are going to be so much more powerful with an instrument that we are not using at all right now.
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you feel that you, or have you talked to your mom about what was in her mind going on at the time that she had been a homemaker, and suddenly she had to pay attention to money in a different way?
Danielle Town:
Oh, that's a good question, Bobbi. It's tough with. I mean, I don't want to bring my mom into it too much because she didn't ask to be put into this story publicly, but she does very well for herself now, and we have never really talked about that money stuff. It's painful and when we touch on it the pain is very much still there. No, we don't talk about it too much.
Danielle’s money lesson:
Danielle Town:
Yeah, exactly. I think the takeaway is we all grew up in some way with a relationship with money, and we were taught a certain relationship with money. We tend not to think about it too much because without a real perspective on what happened it's just how it is. I mean, there's not much thought about it. I grew up X way, and I kind of assume everybody else did too. I mean, I've had people say to me, like the second I start talking about this with people they know what their money story is. And I've had people say to me stuff like, "Oh, yeah, I was never given anything by my parents except for the bare necessities, so I started working when I was 13 years old, and now I have had a job, I have my own business, and I don't know who I am without working." A woman said that to me recently.
Bobbi Rebell:
Huh?
Danielle Town:
And she had clearly had never put that together, but as soon as I brought it up, as soon as I shared my story she knew hers immediately. It was right there. It's something about that where we need that little tiny push, but as soon as it's there those emotions come right up, and for me it was starting to work with investing, starting to work with financial markets, trying to learn this stuff, which was really difficult for me, and just not quite being able to get there. And it wasn't until I understood just by searching within myself that it was because I didn't fully trust my dad around money, and my dad was the guy teaching me now about money, and about investing that I even confronted that part of me.
Danielle Town:
I mean, if you had asked me a few years ago, I would have said, "Oh, I have no problems with money at all. I'm all super comfortable. It's all fine. Like [inaudible 00:10:15]." And it turns out none of that was true. I actually had a lot to deal with and it was incredibly painful. It's not until we're pushed that we're gonna get into that stuff. I mean, you just asked me if I speak to my mom about this stuff. There's no push to get into that with her, and for many of there is no push. And so until we start realizing that those things are holding us back, and we push ourselves we're not going to take that power back.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. That was very intense. No, but very thoughtful and a lot for all of us to think about. Our emotions and money, and being honest about our money story, and coming to terms with it.
Danielle's everyday money tip:
Danielle Town:
I have two. First of all this is what changed everything for me with my investing, I started to look around and look at what I was buying with my consumer dollars, and I discovered that I interact with products and services all the time every day in my house, in my work, in my daily life that are owned by public companies. And as soon as I discovered that, I realized that the same way I feel about consumer dollars, I can feel about money that I put into investing that I put into public companies, and that that money actually has a much great power than I give to it in my investing bank account.
Danielle Town:
What that means is like I have my Apple iPhone next to me. Okay, so I know nothing about investing. I know about the financial markets. I can go research Apple just by Googling it, just by looking online, and discover some stuff about Apple as a company, rather than as just a consumer product that I use, and that's how I started to get really interested in investing, and start to see it kind of makes the vision look a little more 3D. You start to see companies all over the place. Carpet companies, and book companies, and phone companies, and computer companies. It's crazy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Everything comes from somewhere.
Danielle Town:
Exactly.
Bobbi Rebell:
And that goes to your whole philosophy with Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger, it's all about investing in things that you know.
Danielle Town:
Invest in things you know, and let's put our values where our money is going. Let's put our money into companies that are doing great things in the world that we support. Just like we do, or we try to do with our consumer dollars right now.
Danielle Town:
My second tip 'cause you said I have two, the second one is very simple, just read the financial news in the morning, read the business news, and you don't have to read the boring stuff. I skip the boring stuff. I read the stuff that just looks interesting. I give myself a good baseline, a good perspective on what's going on, on stuff that's cool, and fun, and interesting to find out about, and that's it. It doesn't have to be hard. It doesn't have to be filled with pressure. It's just simple. Just learn, just read, just understand going forward. And it starts to build on itself, and that 3D vision starts to happen. It's pretty cool when it happens and it happens really naturally.
Financial GrownUp Tip number one:
Whenever you get FOMO, aka fear of missing out, or you feel a little envy about somebody whose life looks perfect, think about Danielle. She is successful, happily married, living what from all accounts looks like a great life, but the truth is her life has been far from perfect. She has had struggles. We all do, but think about what she came back from, and what she built, and the amazing life that she has now. It reminds me a lot of what Tony Robbins talks about, that you just have to just decide, decide to take control of your life, don't be a victim. On the surface she is the child of Phil Town, uber successful investor, but yet you heard the story, things were not always perfect growing up.
Financial GrownUp Tip number two:
If you want to be a better investor, follow Danielle's advice and educate yourself. As Danielle said it can be as simple as keeping up with the financial news. If you want to learn the basics of investing, Danielle's book with her father, and their podcast are great resources. They make it super easy. Also, there are countless websites that can teach you the basics, and also keep you up to speed on the latest news. Some of my favorites are Investopedia, which also has a whole Investopedia Academy. The Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times, and of course my former employers, CNBC. CNN, which has CNN Money now, and Reuters. There's also news aggregators that can make your life easy by pulling together the top headlines like Google Finance, Yahoo Finance, and SeekingAlpha.
Episode Links
Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.
Listen to Danielle’s Ted Talk!!!
Danielle’s website: www.DanielleTown.com
Listen to her podcast with her dad Phil Town: Invested and on iTunes here
Get Phil and Danielle Town’s book Invested!
Some ideas to get started learning more about investing:
Follow Danielle!
Twitter: @danielle_town
Instagram: @danielletown
Facebook: @DanielleTownInvested
When journalist Vera Gibbons launched nonpoliticalnews.com she had lots of former colleagues and friends telling her she needed to spend money on all kinds of costs, but after making a few missteps, the entrepreneur learned to prioritize and keep her costs in check while she built a strong foundation.
In Vera’s money story you will learn:
-What inspired Vera to start her website and newsletter nonpoliticalnews.com
-How she was approached about hiring many people to help her, but at a cost, despite the fact that her business was not yet earning money
-Vera’s choices about where to spend her resources in the early days of her venture
-Where she regretted spending money, and where she felt her money was best allocated.
-Vera’s revenue model
In Vera’s money lesson you will learn:
-How to evaluate what expenses to take on in the startup phase of a business
-How to prioritize your business needs versus wants
-The legal issues you need to pay attention to when starting a business
In Vera’s every day money tip you will learn:
-Why we all need to be paying close attention to interest rates
-How to identify the interest rates in your life that could be going up
-How to negotiate to get your rates lower
In my take you will learn:
-How to put your friends “advice’ in context when starting any new venture
-How the upward movement in interest rates can be both a positive and a negative.
Episode Links
Vera’s website: nonpoliticalnews.com
Twitter @nopodaily
Facebook Non political News
Instagram @nonpoliticalnews
Resources to learn more about interest rates and why they are going up:
The Fed: https://www.federalreserve.gov/
Investopedia: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/interestrate.asp
Business Insider: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-fed-raises-interest-rates-2017-12
Kiplinger https://www.kiplinger.com/article/business/T019-C000-S010-interest-rate-forecast.html
Marketwatch: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/rising-interest-rates-give-retirees-good-news-and-bad-news-2018-06-20
To win one of the promo video’s you see- be sure to share them on social media when you see them on my feeds!
Twitter @bobbirebell
Instagram @bobbirebell1
Facebook: Bobbi Rebell
Want to share your money story? Write to us and tell us about it at info@financialgrownup.com
Transcription
Vera Gibbons:
They said "We'll do 20 videos for $20,000. You should do a podcast, your website needs to be revised, I'll do it for $15,000." I'm a startup, and I have no income, and I have no revenue, how am I going to pay for any of this?
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. We talk a lot about living within our means, and ideally below our means, when we talk about personal finance. But the truth is, that also applies in business, especially with startup businesses that are as they say pre-revenue. Before we get to our guest, I just want to welcome our new listeners, and of course welcome back our regulars, we keep the show on the shorter side around 15 minutes, so you can fit it into your busy day. But of course, feel free to binge on a few episodes if you've got half an hour, two episodes, and so on. The idea is that we share money stories that are going to give us something to think about that may relay to our personal lives, maybe our careers and business lives, which these days are blending together more and more. We also do everyday money tips, because we want you to have more money.
Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, I guess Vera Gibbons spent years as a Consumer Journalist before starting her website, Non Political News, aka NoPo. When she did, everybody wanted to help her out and have their hand out. Here is Vera Gibbons. Hey, Vera Gibbons, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Vera Gibbons:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to be your guest.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your new website, Non Political News, something we all need a little bit of.
Vera Gibbons:
It is a labor of love. I started it a couple of years ago, and it's really been growing like gangbusters. All the news is non political, and then we have some fun stuff and some stuff that is just frivolous and interesting. It's resonating, people really seem to like it.
Bobbi Rebell:
I want to hear more about it, but first I want to get to your money story, because it has to do with being an entrepreneur and starting a business, and the fact that sometimes we take on costs that we should not. Tell us more.
Vera Gibbons:
That is a big problem. All my life, as you know, I've been bouncing around on different TV shows, doing personal financing consumer segments. Then I started NonPoliticalNews.com, so the big money story is it's expensive to be your own boss. This is probably why people don't do it. There are legal costs, there are marketing costs, and they add up, and they add up very, very quickly, as I quickly found.
Bobbi Rebell:
People tell you that you need to do this, you need to do that.
Vera Gibbons:
It never ends. When I first started NonPoliticalNews.com I had people approach me from NBC, where I used to work, and they we're saying "Oh, do you want me to do some videos for you?" They said "We'll do 20 videos for $20,000. You should do a podcast. Your website needs to be revised. I'll do it for $15,000." I mean-
Bobbi Rebell:
Those are big numbers.
Vera Gibbons:
Big.
Bobbi Rebell:
Because your revenue was what at this point?
Vera Gibbons:
Zip.
Bobbi Rebell:
Zero. Zero revenue and these people are hitting you up.
Vera Gibbons:
They wanted to do all sorts of stuff and they weren't taking me and my personal situation under consideration at all. I'm like "Hey, I'm a startup, I have no income. I have no revenue. How am I going to pay for any of this?" People were telling me "You should bring on people to work for you. You should hire someone to do the marketing." I hired one person to help me with email problems, with the delivery of our email. We use MailChimp, as everybody does, because I'm a newsletter business pretty much. The email goes out every single morning at 7:00 into your inbox. Occasionally, some people weren't getting the email, or it was showing up late, or it was bouncing back. So I had to bring in somebody to help me with that. But at the time I was thinking "I just got to make sure this email gets out to my subscribers every single morning, and it's consistent in the delivery." So that was a priority.
Vera Gibbons:
Now we had another priority that literally landed on my desk, which was we had a trademark problem, I had trademarked NonPoliticalNews.com, and somebody was infringing on our trademark. That was a big legal cost that I had to undertake for obvious reasons, we couldn't have this happen. We had to do a cease and desist, and [inaudible 00:04:42] people out, and then we ended up buying their domain. It was a big ordeal. It also held up the marketing side of things too, because I was like "Well, I can't really continue with using the name Non Political News or NoPo News as call it if somebody else has that name." People are confused with where they're going, and they're being miscorrected. That was a big unfortunate legal battle that we had to undertake, and that was an expensive one.
Bobbi Rebell:
How did this all evolve to where you are now in terms of your ongoing expenses, your payroll basically?
Vera Gibbons:
I did make a compromise with videos. They had wanted me to do like 20 videos for $20,000. I worked out a deal with them where I did a couple just to test the waters for a couple thousand dollars. In the end, that was a financial mistake actually, because the videos did not do all that well, they weren't generating the kind of traffic or interest we wanted. I had actually found a couple of typos in one of the videos before it went out. I'm like "What am I paying for all this for?" That was a mistake. Thankfully it wasn't that big of financial a mistake, it was just a couple thousand dollars, the cost of doing business.
Vera Gibbons:
I also had a lot of people who approached me and wanted to help me with the social media. That's still a work in progress, because I'm not very good at social media, and I don't really like it. But at some point, I'm probably going to have to hire somebody to do that, because I know now that in order to get your product out there, and to get the word out there about your product, you need to have someone pretty aggressively promoting it on Instagram, and Twitter, and Facebook. I've been not very good about that quite honestly. The bulk of the money has gone toward my website guy, he redid the website, it looks pretty good now, it's a little flashier, it's a little more user friendly. My marketing, he's just a part-time marketing guy, he's on a retainer. He does help me with Facebook promotions, and a little bit of social media. We occasionally do free giveaways via NonPoliticalNews.com, where we partner up with various entities, and we provide something for our subscribers. He's been helping me with some of those promotions.
Vera Gibbons:
Those can be costly too depending on how you market them on Facebook. Facebook has changed all the algorithms now, so it's a little trickier than it used to be perhaps, but that has been primarily where I've been spending the money.
Bobbi Rebell:
What's the revenue model?
Vera Gibbons:
The revenue model is, at some point we're going to be doing sponsored segments. We do have, the way it's organized now is we have different categories. We have consumer/personal finance, health and wellness, fashion/beauty and fitness and diet. Every day into the night, and early morning, I curate the news within those categories. At some point soon, we're going to partner up with influential people within each of the respective categories, and we're going to tap into their followers and see if it ... to catch on with Non Political News.
Bobbi Rebell:
Vera, what is your money lesson from that story? Taking on all of those expenses, some you didn't take on, some you did and regret.
Vera Gibbons:
I guess the lesson is, do what is absolutely necessary at the time, and hold off on the other things until that becomes a complete necessity. For me, the necessity is we're dealing with email delivery problems, obviously you want to make sure-
Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because if people aren't getting their daily emails, you have no business.
Vera Gibbons:
Exactly. That was a hot fire I had to put up immediately. Then the other issue was this legal issue, we had someone infringing on our trademark, and that was another hot issue that had to be taken care of immediately. The other stuff could wait, and some of it is still waiting. It's just been a work in a progress.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about an everyday money tip, because you're in the news business, you know what's going on, and that gave you an idea for something people need to be paying a lot of attention to, maybe more than they think.
Vera Gibbons:
Check your interest rates, guys. A lot of people do not even know what their interest rate actually is. We are in a rising interest rate environment, you really need to know where you stand on that front, because your costs are going to get more expensive, you probably, maybe, perhaps have noticed things are going up on your credit card.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. What are the different interest rates that people should be checking that could change, that aren't usually fixed?
Vera Gibbons:
That would be your variable rate loans, your credit cards are variable rate loans. If you had an adjustable rate mortgage, that's a variable rate loan. These are the types of things that people really need to check, especially that credit card rate, because when Fed raises their rates, your credit card rate goes up in sync, pretty much immediately. 25 Basis Point hike may not sound like a lot, but we've had a couple, and we're potentially going to get three or four hikes for the total of 2018. That credit card debt you carry months to months, to months over, you revolve your debt, is going to be more expensive.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's say you have a credit card, and you know it's not being paid off any time soon, what can you do?
Vera Gibbons:
If you have good credit, in the 700 range, you could always call up your credit card company and see if they'll actually lower your rate. That strategy continues to work today. If you have been paying your bills on time, if you've shown them that you're reliable, that you do pay everything off, and you're responsible, they may actually be willing to give you a bit of a break. That has been true for years and years and years, but a lot of people don't bother actually taking that step. If you notice your credit card rate has gone up, and it probably has over the course of the last six months, you could always pick up the phone and ask the credit card company to lower that rate, or to bring it down to the rate it once was a couple of months ago.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tell us a little bit more about Non Political News and where people can find it, where people can learn more about it, and more about you.
Vera Gibbons:
Non Political News, you can find it on NonPoliticalNews.com, once you sign on to subscribe, you will get a link to confirm your subscription, and then every day in your inbox, 7:00 a.m., you get a nice [inaudible 00:10:54] of Non Political News in consumer/personal finance, health and wellness, fashion/beauty, fitness and diet. Then on Friday, we run guest posts. We've had Jean Chatzky, we have had Peter Greenberg, we've had a bunch of CNBC people up from Bill Griffeth to Ron Insana up to Guy Adami do them.
Bobbi Rebell:
I know you're not a huge social media fan, but people would probably really enjoy following you, where can they?
Vera Gibbons:
Thanks, Bobbi. Yeah. We do have an Instagram account nonpoliticalnews. Like you said, I'm not very good about putting updates on there, but I promise to get better. On Facebook, we're Nonpoliticalnews. Twitter, we're NoPoDaily.
Bobbi Rebell:
NoPoDaily, like it.
Vera Gibbons:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
Vera Gibbons, thank you so much. This was wonderful.
Vera Gibbons:
Thank you, it's been a pleasure.
Bobbi Rebell:
So my friends, Vera learned some very big lessons very quickly. Financial Grownup tip number one, tune out the advice from well-meaning friends, who want you to take on costs before your business mission and priorities are well defined. Frankly, before you can afford them. Vera still has no clear path to revenue, so she's right to limit her expenses to only the most essential, making sure her emails go out without a hitch and paying her legal bills. She knows that if she adds people on, as she does on occasion, she keeps it freelance, and project-based, so flexibility is still there for you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, if you aren't already, start paying attention to the news regarding the Fed and interest rates. It is going to get personal real fast. If you have any kind of loans, this is important to be paying attention to. But here's the good news, there is an upside, low rates have also meant very low returns for those on fixed incomes or those that just invest in fixed income instruments. Rates for things that you might want to invest in, like CDs, are going to go up. Glass half full my friends. I will leave some links in the show notes of places you can get some great information and stay up to speed on what matters.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you are not already, please hit that subscribe button. If you are listening on Apple podcast, or iTunes, please rate the podcast or leave a review. Also, if you liked the show, just tell a friend. Ask them to check it out as well. If you are enjoying the promos, and want one for yourself or for your business, follow me on social media and share them. I will be choosing a winner soon and it could be you. I am on Twitter, @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, and Facebook @bobbirebell. DM me your thoughts on the show, and what guests you would like to hear from.
Bobbi Rebell:
Loved how candid Vera Gibbons was with us about the challenges of starting and growing a business. Lots of lessons in hindsight already. So thank you, Vera, for bringing us all one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Likeable media’s Carrie Kerpen made a decision to step away from the day-to-day of her growing social media agency to focus almost exclusively on brand building. Today she is the host of the All the Social Ladies podcast, the author of Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business, and hosts a Facebook Watch channel under the Work It brand.
In Carrie’s money story you will learn:
-About Carrie’s company Likable, which is the 6th best place to work in New York City!
-How Carrie and her husband started their company with just $10,000
-Why they chose to grow organically rather than take outside funding
-The strategy behind not taking outside advertising on Carrie’s popular podcast “All the Social Ladies”
-How and why Carrie became so focused on brand building for Likeable
-The specific steps she planned and executed to achieve targeted milestones
-Why the re-branded the company from its original name (and what that name was!)
In Carrie’s money lesson you will learn:
-What to have in place in business before you start a brand building campaign
-How to determine the budget
-Metrics to consider when planning both short and long term goals
-Carrie’s strategy to balance content and connections on her podcast and other ventures
-How Carrie builds - and tracks- long term relationships with potential business partners, well ahead of time
-The specific kinds of goals Carrie sets to make sure she is generating value
-The biggest danger of long-term brand building strategies
In Carrie’s money tip you will learn:
-Her big negotiating strategy
-What she means when she says to hit the mute button
-How to use awkwardness to your advantage
-The secret to stalling as a strategy
In My Take you will learn:
-The importance of making sure you have financial stability in your business, and in your life, before you pull yourself into longer term strategies
-Why tracking everything, including touch points with long term leads is essential
-How paying it forward creates a culture of giving and supporting- that nearly always becomes a profit driver for all parties involved.
To get a free promo video- when you see the video-s share on social media!
Got a great money story to share? Be a guest! We love to have listeners on. Write to us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us your money story and an every day money tip and we’ll let you know if you have been selected for an upcoming episode!
EPISODE LINKS
Likeable.com
Listen to the All the Social Ladies Podcast!
Check out Carrie’s website CarrieKerpen.com
Get Carrie’s book Work it!
Follow Carrie!
Twitter @CarrieKerpen
Instagram @CarrieKerpen
Facebook Carrie Kerpen
Watch Carrie’s Work It Series on Facebook!
Transcription
Carrie Kerpen:
I track everything. Every email I send. Every time I get coffee. All of the things that I do with people who are qualified. And I also track what value I'm adding to them. I often send them things whether it's sending an article that I find relevant. Whether it's article to get them a piece in Forbes or something along those lines. I always am looking at how I can help people who can help me too.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me certified financial planner [Bobbi Rebell 00:00:29], author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own . We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Ever wonder how those cool brands, become so cool. Well there's actually a whole business around it. It doesn't happen by accident. We have one of the best in the business here with us, giving us the scoop on how she builds her own social media marketing and branding business. And personal brand. And it is very intentional and thought out. You'll be surprised how much goes into it. Nothing happens by accident my friends. First a quick welcome to our new listeners and our returning ones. So happy you're with us. If you like the show, tell someone. And of course don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes. I also want to thank everyone that's been emailing me, DM'ing me, posting compliments, on various social media about the video promos. Thank you. I really appreciate it. I did them by myself, and they were so much fun and I'm also really excited that we are having this contest where I'm going to get to make one for one of you, for your business or for you.
Bobbi Rebell:
All you have to do is share them between now and July first. If it goes well, we'll do it again. But I need you guys to share the videos when you see them, retweet them, on Facebook share them, on Instagram. You can repost them and make sure to tag me so that I see it, but I do have software that tracks as well. And you know what? You got to be in it, to win it. So you guys, you've been emailing me asking if you can pay me to make one. This is a way to get one for free, literally the most tiniest effort, totally free and I can't wait to see who I get to make one for. It's going to be really fun. Let's go to our guest. Likable Media's Carrie Kerpen, is the host of all the social ladies podcast, the author of Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business. And she also, because she has so much free time, she's also a mom and a wife by the way, she hosts a Facebook watch channel, under the Work It brand as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
She has fun for sure, but as you will hear she is meticulous in tracking her return on brand building investment. Carrie has specific metrics and goals, with all this content creation going on. She is laser focused on making sure that all of the pieces of her Likeable strategy work together. Like I said guys, nothing happens by accident, there's not a lot of luck involved. It's a lot of hard work, here is Carrie Kerpen. Carrie Kerpen you're a financial grownup welcome to the podcast.
Carrie Kerpen:
Thank you so much Bobbi, I'm so happy to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I love watching all of your different developments to your journey, in addition to being the head of Likeable Media, you have your podcast, All the Social Ladies, because you're a social media agency. You have your book, Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business. And of course you have columns in Ink and Forbes, and now you're in TV videos. You're everywhere Carrie.
Carrie Kerpen:
Thank you. I try. I'm trying.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait I have one more shout out. Your company, Likable Media, is the sixth best place to work. Is that in the world, or just New York City?
Carrie Kerpen:
That's New York. Sixth in New York City, but if you ask me it's the best place in the world to work. Because everybody's really does have a great time here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I visited it, and I can attest it's a really great group of people that you have working at Likable, so. That's a very well earned, accolade. Is that what you call it? Award?
Carrie Kerpen:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know.
Carrie Kerpen:
An accolade, a distinction. Any of the things.
Bobbi Rebell:
All good things, yeah. So you do a lot for your work. So for your money story, what we're going to talk about is the fact that, while you definitely have to focus on the bottom line and earning, you have a nicely growing staff, you've got to support that payroll. At the same time, your money story has to do with making some business decisions, that aren't immediately obvious how they're going to pay off. Tell us what happened.
Carrie Kerpen:
Absolutely. So I have typically been very bottom-line focused in building my business and growing. You know, we grew when we started, my husband and I started this business with $10,000 in the bank, and we worked our way up, as an agency. You would sell clients, you would get in money, you would hire people. And sort of grow organically. We didn't take in funding or anything like that. And I had always been super conscious of the bottom line. And once we got to a point where I felt like we were really stable and I had a good understanding of our profit margins. I decided to take a certain amount of the profit margins and invest in brand building and investing in myself. I started with a podcast, which most people do a podcast, and look at it and say okay, how am I going to make money from advertising. I wasn't-
Bobbi Rebell:
Well you are the advertiser. Likable is the sponsor.
Carrie Kerpen:
Exactly. I invest-
Bobbi Rebell:
And you've turned people down.
Carrie Kerpen:
Yes-
Bobbi Rebell:
I know that you've been approached by outside sponsors.
Carrie Kerpen:
Outside sponsors, networks, et cetera. I don't take advertising for that podcast. I didn't take you know, a ton of money for Work It. You know just a simple amount to write it. And really didn't focus intensely on making money from book sales. And I really don't focus on incorporating any sponsors into Work It, now the series that I run on Facebook Watch. I really looked at that as a long game investment, in Likable's future, and in my future. How am I going to build a brand and focus on the brand building activities, and keep it out of being sponsored, you know, really just be truly focused on building the brand and adding value. And not worry so much on that about the bottom line. Understanding that investing in that upfront, yields a long-term result.
Bobbi Rebell:
Were there discussions with your team about this? With your husband, who's not fully involved in the business anymore, but he's still obviously an advisor in your life?
Carrie Kerpen:
Yes. So there were discussions around this both with my team and with my husband who serves on the board at Likable. So I would say that the first place I learned this from was my husband when he launched a book, that became a New York Times bestseller, called Likeable Social Media, back in 2010, when we were building the business. And we had just renamed our business Likable, it wasn't originally Likable when we started.
Bobbi Rebell:
What was the original name?
Carrie Kerpen:
The original name was the Cabas Kerpen. We had no idea what we were doing.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh that's so interesting, I never knew that. The Cabas.
Carrie Kerpen:
It was a very brief period of time we were the Cabas for about two years and then we decided to do Likable when, on the Facebook it was still like become a fan. You didn't even like a brand page. It was so fortuitous that as we did that, that really propelled are growth forward. Yeah so, Dave launched this book, invested a ton of time and energy in it. Essentially had me running the business while he was working on that brand. Didn't focus so much on book sales just focused on really getting his brand out there. And that really did help propel our business forward. So I learned from him, to do that, but I had a little bit of a lack of confidence of doing that, because I was uncomfortable, A, investing in myself, and B, putting myself in the spotlight. And so I had hesitated for a long time to use that strategy.
Carrie Kerpen:
Once I decided to use the strategy, I also met with the management and leadership team here at Likable, and said hey, I want to be where I can best serve the company. And I think the way I can best serve the company is to help drive leads through building a brand. What do you guys think if we take this year, and we really invest in that? And they thought that it was actually a great idea. And so I had the management structure in place, where the day to day handling of clients, was taken care of by my president, and the leadership team here at Likable. And so that I allowed myself, and freed myself up to do this. And once I had buy in from them, and buy in from Dave, I was ready to go.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So you were very aware that this was not going to be revenue driving. This was about brand building. What is the lesson then for other people who maybe want to do something that is not direct to the bottom line because there is so much pressure. How do you know when it's worth it? Because there's also the danger that you could say I'm doing this, but they're kind of just going down a road where they're doing something fun and fulfilling but maybe it doesn't necessarily pay off. Not every ... In other words, you were very directed, but how can you tell what is going to be a productive brand building exercise, non-revenue producing thing that you're going to do, that will lead, playing the long game, to building your business, as opposed to something that's just kind of going down the road.
Carrie Kerpen:
I have a few tips on this. So the first is to make sure you have enough in the bottom line to be able to invest in doing this. So I wouldn't recommend starting with this, when you have no bottom line, and no source of income or ability to do this. You need to be at a point where you've built your business enough to be sustainable, and have enough income that you're willing to invest. The second thing, is that you must be able to really articulate the way that this will help your business in the long run. So for me, when I do interviews, I make sure that a certain percentage of interviews are with women who I think can either be future clients or are people who can help me grow Likable. Either as advisors, or something along those lines. And I'm helping them by giving them a platform, and they're helping me, by helping me not only grow my network, but find the right people to work with. And I think the third piece, of what helps you set a strategy like this, is to have a long term goal. So, I wouldn't do this without an ability to have a long term financial goal attached.
Carrie Kerpen:
So in other words, the actual activities may not produce revenue. However, I can pull back and say, because of the women I've met through this, or because of this activity that I've done, I've been able to generate $5 million, over the course of five years. So something that is more long term, helps you thinking in the long term vision. This may not make you money right now, but how will this make you money in the long term?
Bobbi Rebell:
Did you set specific goals?
Carrie Kerpen:
Yes, I set specific goals for everything that I do. First I set specific goals on the bottom line that I need to produce for the, right now. So what are the activities that I'm doing right now that generate revenue? Then on the long term goals, I start with how many people am I going to need who I would describe as qualified? How many women or men am I going to network with who are potential clients of Likable. If that were my strategy. And then, it starts with the number of people I meet. Then the number of touch points, how many times I connect with them. I keep it all really well documented, so that I know that I'm nurturing relationships over time. And I think that's one of the keys to really looking at a long-term strategy. One of the dangers of a long-term strategy is you could say, oh it's so long term, it feels so far away I don't really need to worry about revenue at all. However with that, you can get really lost and invest too much in the current activity that you're doing to build a brand and then not reach the long-term goal. You have to always have that long-term goal in mind and I always have a revenue goal in mind when I do that.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you're being intentional, and you're tracking what you're doing.
Carrie Kerpen:
I track everything. Every email I send. Every time I get coffee. All of the things that I do with people who are qualified. And I also track what value I'm adding to them. Like I often send them things. Whether it's sending an article that I find relevant. Whether it's helping to get them a piece in Forbes or something along those lines, I always am looking at how I can help people who can help me too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Another way you can help people is with your money tip, which has to do with negotiating.
Carrie Kerpen:
Yup, in negotiating use what I call your mental mute button. In other words, sometimes when negotiating, we tend to talk way too much. We will go, well I think this, and I think I'm worth this, or I think I should be getting this. And here's why. And let me give you all of these reasons. Instead use a mental mute. Let's say you're negotiating for a speaking engagement. What is the speaking fee for this engagement? And then pause. Let them own the awkwardness. Let them ... Don't say well I normally charge this and well I normally do this. If you just put yourself on mute, let the awkwardness go to them, let them talk, and then give yourself the power to respond. Take a minute. And take a pause. Use that mental mute button and your negotiating will get a lot better, a lot faster.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. Do you ever leave completely and then come back and say I'll think about it, or do you feel you have to give an answer right away?
Carrie Kerpen:
No, I love stalling, I don't mind stalling at all. I think any kind of awkwardness to put on them is good, and owning your own time and your own power in that way is great.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, Carrie Kerpen, tell us what's going on. The book is already a best-seller. Now you're doing more video.
Carrie Kerpen:
Yup. So you can watch Work It on Facebook Watch, under Carrie Kerpen. You can get Work It, at workitthebook.com. And follow me at Carrie Kerpen on all social handles. It's all the same thing. Carrie Kerpen.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Carrie Kerpen.
Carrie Kerpen:
You are welcome Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Carrie makes it all look so easy, so it was great to hear the behind-the-scenes. There's a lot of thought and intention going on with everything that Carrie does. Not the least of which is that she didn't start doing all this personal branding until the time was right. So financial grownup tip number one, don't forget, you need for your business to have enough financial stability, so you can do things like meet payroll and other financial obligations, before you go out and do this big brand building like Carrie did. It's not that brand building is a luxury, or nice to have. It's needed. Totally. But keep the lights on in the most basic sense, paying your employees, making sure that payroll is happening and your business is running. That's got to come first. Financial grownup tip number two. Track everything. It is great to be social with clients, potential clients, and business related friends. And sometimes the lines get really blurred with who's a friend, who's a business acquaintance, who's a client. Life is messy.
Bobbi Rebell:
But this is still something that's important. It's something I don't do. But Carrie made me think about it. It is something worth starting to track. A connection made years ago and nurtured, can yield results now or in the future. Don't just go to people when you need something from them. Go to them, when you can give them something that may not even be something that they have been asking you for. Proactively offer to do something for them. Something you know they could benefit them. So many of the best opportunities come from the most tangential contacts. Often people that are not even in your closest circles. It's karma. It'll come back to you. So go today to someone that you haven't touch base with in a little bit, and reach out. And see if there's something you could do to help their business. All right I have been totally overwhelmed by emails and DM's, Facebook Messenger, social media comments, texts and in-person requests, for those promo videos. Just a reminder they are not for sale but they are available to win if you are interested. Very easy.
Bobbi Rebell:
All you have to do is when you see the promo videos on social media, retweet them, share them, repost them, tag me if you can. I do have software that tracks it either way, but just to be sure feel free to tag me when you do that. Don't assume by the way that you're not eligible for some reason. The winner of a recent book giveaway contest for Randi Zuckerberg's Pick Three, was someone that I knew, but you know what? She was first to enter, she was enthusiastic, she flowed directions and she was so excited when she won. As long as you're not related to me, and as long as you don't have any financial ties to the podcast, you are in. And guys isn't free better than paying for a video? I'm excited to see who wins. Anyway, on that note, I'll have to come up with a really good video, a really likable video I should say, for miss Carrie Kerpen.
Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed her story about investing in brand building. And doing things that sometimes a re a little bit out of our comfort zone. It's hard, even for me. I'm having a tough time getting comfortable sharing more of my life, personal things, but I'm working on it. I confess to not being good at tracking all of my various business coffees and all that stuff. More to come we'll see. But the responses make it worth it, So thanks to all of you. And thanks to Carrie for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a beer cave media production.
Award-winning CBS Business News Analyst, and radio and podcast host Jill Schlesinger CFP® talks about how she literally paid off her ex-husband to go away, after just one year of marriage. She also shares her best tip for organizing and tracking spending.
In Jill’s money story you will learn:
-The negotiation that went on during her divorce
-The advice her father gave her and the significance of his perspective
-The financial- and other- costs of marrying the wrong person
In Jill’s money lesson you will learn:
-The value of using money and financial resources to move on, even when it is not a fair payment
-How Jill’s background as a trader gave her perspective on cutting her losses in bad situations.
-How to apply Jill’s lessons to different situations in life, from stocks, to high living expenses
In Jill’s money tip you will learn:
-Her advice to cut transportation and commuting costs
-Don’t sweat the small stuff but pay attention to the big stuff like life insurance
-Keep your finances simple, for example charge on just one credit card
-About the book Jill is writing “Dumb Things Smart People Do with Their Money” including a sneak peak!
In My Take you will learn:
-Ways to apply Jill’s philosophy of cutting your losses, including stocks, business partnerships and consumer goods
-How to know what to insure
-Specifically how I just was able to get a 44% price cut on my annual home insurance
Episode Links
Learn more about Jill at https://www.jillonmoney.com/
Check out the Better Off Podcast
Follow Jill!
Twitter: @jillonmoney
Facebook Jill On Money
Instagram: @jillonmoney
Linkedin JillonMoney
YouTube Jill Schlesinger
Transcription
Jill Schlesinge:
He asked for a number that I thought was ridiculous. I countered with a number that he thought was ridiculous. We agreed on a number that we both thought was unfair, which probably meant it was a good deal for both of us.
Jill Schlesinge:
I wasn't paying him, I was paying for my freedom.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, do you ever wish and imagine that there would be a check big enough to make a problem go away? It could happen. We'll talk more about that soon, but first a quick welcome to our new listeners, and welcome back to our Financial Grownup regulars. Please keep telling your friends about the podcast so we can continue to grow, and if you listen on Apple Podcasts, take just a few minutes to rate and review it. That also helps us get discovered and is really important, and needless to say, much appreciated.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Jill Schlesinger, award-winning journalist for her national radio show, she is also the CBS Business news analyst, and she hosts the Better Off podcast. I met Jill when my book came out. A mutual friend introduced us, and then I was thrilled when I got to be on her award-winning radio program. Did I say award-winning enough? She won a big Gracie award recently.
Bobbi Rebell:
As you guys know, I'm a big believer in learning from the best, and while modest, Jill is way up there with the best in the business, and scores extra points in my book for being a certified financial planner and encouraging my efforts to get the designation as well. But what I did not expect was such a candid conversation with Jill. What she says about how she literally, she bribed, let's say what it is, she bribed someone to get out of her life. It really took me by surprise. She goes there. You guys should listen to this. You're gonna enjoy it. Here is Jill Schlesinger.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jill Schlesinger, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Jill Schlesinge:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Big congratulations are in order. You just got back from a very special trip to LA for a very big award. Tell us.
Jill Schlesinge:
Oh, well as you know, I got a Tony award. Just kidding. I got a Grammy award. No, just kidding, I got something called a Gracie. A Gracie, I'm so old I knew exactly who that referred to. That refers to Gracie Allen who was a very strong woman in Hollywood many, many years ago. The Alliance of Women in Media gives out an award for TV, radio, podcasts, and my executive producer Mark and I won for the best national radio show, so we're very psyched.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm very psyched for you. I am honored that I was once a guest on the show when my book came out. And you even got to walk the red carpet.
Jill Schlesinge:
I know, and that is always sort of a frightening thing for a big, tall woman who does not usually wear heels that are that tall, so that was daunting. That was the hardest part of the whole thing. Give me a spreadsheet to go through, but don't make me walk in heels.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, so you brought with you a money story. Do tell, Jill.
Jill Schlesinge:
Remember when you were on my radio show and at the end you like completely hijacked me and turned the tables, and you're like-
Bobbi Rebell:
Totally.
Jill Schlesinge:
... "Tell me something."
Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.
Jill Schlesinge:
So I have a money story that is basically about divorce, and it's kind of both a real divorce, a marriage dissolving, a partnership, a business partnership dissolving, and my story is this. I learned something from my now deceased father when I was talking about my divorce and I was very upset about the whole things. I had really such a schmucky ex-husband who literally threatened to sue me for alimony after being married for a year, a month, and a day.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.
Jill Schlesinge:
Yeah. I hope you're listening. You know who you are. And what I realized very quickly after my father kind of laid it out for me, he's like, "You know what, honey? You worked your butt off on Wall Street, you made a few bucks, you got some money. All this guy wants is for you to pay him off. Pick a number, make him feel like a man..." He put that in sort of italics, "and move on. And the quicker you move on, the quicker you move on for your life, and there's actually no price tag for that freedom."
Jill Schlesinge:
That is a money story that I have brought through my life, which I was able to actually help my clients with 'cause I went into the client business where I was managing money as a certified financial planner. And as soon as you realized you had enough money to sort of write a check, and you realized that it really wasn't the amount, it was just the fact that you would do it, that that became a really important lesson for me.
Jill Schlesinge:
And so my wisdom to impart on you and your listenership is that sometimes, don't worry about who's right or wrong. Just pay and move on.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, you did that, I assume, with your now very long time ago ex-husband. Was it an amount of money that was meaningful to you or was it actually just a small amount that made it go away in principle? I mean, did it hurt financially?
Jill Schlesinge:
No, it did not hurt financially. It hurt from a pride perspective because I felt like I was being punished monetarily for marrying the wrong person for a year. And so it hurt me to even think that I had to put a dime in this guy's pocket after one year of marriage. What I really stopped doing in that ... again, after my dad gave me this really good advice is that I wasn't paying him, I was paying for my freedom, and that's how I made the adjustment.
Bobbi Rebell:
And how did the ex respond? Did he just say, "Great, I'll take the check. Thank you very much. Goodbye." Or was he a jerk about it?
Jill Schlesinge:
Oh man. Well, obviously if you're married to someone for a year and that person is suing you for alimony, the jerkiness is sort of well-documented.
Bobbi Rebell:
True true.
Jill Schlesinge:
But what I could say is this. He asked for a number that I thought was ridiculous. I countered with a number that he thought was ridiculous. We agreed on a number that we both thought was unfair, which probably meant it was a good deal for both of us, that we both kind of moved on.
Jill Schlesinge:
And you know what? He got remarried, I moved on, it kind of did work out. But again, for me the lesson being, there is absolutely no reason to get stuck. For me, I'm the kind of person who could get stuck on it is not the right thing, and that was just not worth it for me. Whether it was right or wrong or someone was right or wrong or whether I was wronged or he felt wronged, it didn't matter. We both had to get out of this thing. We both realized it was over.
Bobbi Rebell:
So for our listeners, I like what you said before about this isn't just about ending a marriage. It could be about ending any kind of partnership. How does this apply ... what is the takeaway for our listeners? What's the lesson here?
Jill Schlesinge:
I was born a trader. That was my first job on Wall Street. I was a commodities trader, and the one beautiful thing about being a trader is that you quickly learn you always have a bad trade. There's nobody who gets to go through life as a trader and not experience the recognition very quickly of, "Oh my god, I'm in a bad trade."
Jill Schlesinge:
So, you're gonna do that in your financial life a million times over. You're gonna realize like, "Uh-oh, bad trade. Like uh-oh, I actually moved into an apartment that is too expensive for me. I am going to pay the two month penalty to get out and move to another apartment." Or, "I'm going to do something different." Or, "I bought something, I bought a stock, I bought a mutual fund, I did something," and you immediately realize you've screwed up. "I bought an insurance policy I don't understand. There's a penalty to get out. Maybe I need to get out."
Jill Schlesinge:
When you feel that recognition in your soul that you've done something that's probably not right for you, if you don't know for sure, go get advice, but do not ignore that feeling.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, I am on the edge of my seat. What is your everyday money tip for our listeners.
Jill Schlesinge:
Well I have two different things to just impart for everyday money tips, and this is for anyone who lives in a city. Like, I'm a walker. Just walk everywhere. That is actually how I saved more money than anything. People take cabs all the time. I'm a huge mass transit person. Now, you don't live in a place where there is mass transit, this is irrelevant to you.
Jill Schlesinge:
My other everyday tip is don't sweat the small stuff that you ... you're gonna think that I'm a certified financial planner and I count every single penny I spend. I don't. I've done that, but I know generally how much to spend, and I don't quibble over little things. But I'm very thoughtful about big things. So my everyday money tip is that like, you know, you're worried about whether you get a latte at Starbucks versus making your own coffee, that's not the big decision to sweat. Sweat more about the big decisions like, "Gee, I need to buy life insurance but I haven't yet."
Jill Schlesinge:
So, I really am not a big sweat of the small stuff kind of person. My everyday is to live my life, walk around, know exactly how much money's in my pocket, and I loathe to do anything besides charge on one credit card only. That's it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Keeping it simple. Thank you, Jill. So tell me more about what you're up to post-Gracie award.
Jill Schlesinge:
Well, you know, obviously I have to put those shoes away 'cause I'll never walk in them again.
Bobbi Rebell:
So those are not the shoes you use to walk around Manhattan?
Jill Schlesinge:
No. No, I am a big fan of the Allbirds to get all over Manhattan. So, I host a podcast called Better Off. I host a radio show called Jill on Money. I write a column for Tribune. I am working every day at CBS News, both in radio and TV. And here's the big news that I've just submitted my manuscript for my first book.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Jill Schlesinge:
So that's dropping next February, so I'll come back on in February when the book drops. How's that?
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. Absolutely. Oh my gosh, congratulations. You didn't tell me that till just now. I'm so excited for you. Can you tell us just a little more about it?
Jill Schlesinge:
Yes. The tentative title is Dumb Things Smart People Do With Their Money, and it is based on the fact that I have been in the business for so long and I've been around incredibly bright people who consistently shoot themselves in the foot. They mostly do it to themselves, and there are a series, you know, maybe a dozen or so very practical things that you can do to avoid making those dumb mistakes.
Jill Schlesinge:
So, that is ... it's not a book for everyone, but it is definitely a book for someone who has a brain and says, "Why do I keep doing dumb financial things? I have a brain. Why is it that I can't do these things?" And I know that's most of your audience, 'cause smart people listen to people like you, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, thank you Jill. And smart people listen to people like you, and I love listening to your podcast and your radio show. So thank you, and I'm looking forward to your book.
Jill Schlesinge:
I am too. Thank you so much for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Jill totally delivered, so let's get right into it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: Cut your losses and move on. This applies not just to divorce, as was Jill's main example, it also applies to things like investments, like stocks. If a stock that you liked is no longer in your like category, it doesn't have the same criteria that it had when you picked it, get out. Cut your losses. It's okay to take a loss and move on and use that money to buy a different stock that's maybe a better investment that you'd otherwise be missing out on.
Bobbi Rebell:
Business partnerships, not working, not fixable, find a way out. We all want to come out with the win. You're gonna want to have more, especially if you're in an adversarial position with your business partner, but you know what? Sometimes getting out is more important than getting even. So focus on that and make sure that you can get out and move on to something that's gonna make you happier and maybe more money than that business. Maybe you bought something, maybe an electronic device and the store wants to charge you a re-stocking fee, which is so ridiculous. But you know what? If you don't return it and pay that penalty, you're gonna have something that you don't want taking up space in your home, and you won't have the 90% let's say, of the purchase price that you'd be getting back to then buy what you actually do want. So don't dig in your heels. Just get out, get your money back, move on.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Jill talked about insurance, which is a really important thing to talk about, a very grownup thing. At least once a year, take a look, assess what you've got, and figure out, are the things that would be really hard to replace if something unexpected happened covered. Things like home insurance, renter's insurance, they usually have under them, personal liability. Those are good things to make sure that you have. You can usually tie them together.
Bobbi Rebell:
And guys, this is a big one. I kind of blew it. I have not been negotiating well with my insurance companies, but I did recently, I went to my homeowner's insurance company, pointed out that I'm a really good customer. I've been with them for years. I don't file claims, which is very fortunate on my part, hopefully that won't change, and I asked them to lower my rate and just said, "I'm gonna start shopping around for a better rate somewhere else." And you know what? Within 24 hours, they came back with a new policy, all the same coverage, but 44% lower in terms of annual premium. So, that was a nice chunk of change on annual homeowner's insurance just for asking. And if that's my hourly rate for spending not even an hour doing that, I'll take it.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We just had our first listener episode. To be considered for a future one, email us at info@financialgrownup.com. That's info@financialgrownup.com. Share with us what money story you would like to tell, and the lesson and the everyday money tip that you think our listeners would get value from.
Bobbi Rebell:
And a reminder, you can't win it if you're not in it. If you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show, join the competition. All you have to do, it's totally free, when you see one of the promo videos for the episodes, just share it. Retweet it on Twitter or share it on Facebook. Everyone keeps DMing me and telling me they'll never win and can they just buy one. You have to try. Guys, you gotta be in it to win it. Just share it and retweet it and repost, and you may surprise yourself and be the winner.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for being part of our Financial Grownup community. If you enjoy the show, consider leaving a rating or review, and of course, hit the subscribe button and just tell a friend if you're enjoying the show. It means a lot to us.
Bobbi Rebell:
I am on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram at BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook at Bobbi Rebell.
Bobbi Rebell:
Jill's advice definitely resonated with me. I hope it worked for you as well. We all tend to cling to our previous convictions. We need to move past that. So thank you, Jill, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Indiana-based radiologist Dr. Scott Steenburg joins the Financial Grownup podcast as our first listener to share a money story. Scott shares the story of how a push to have students take out more money than needed to pay for tuition, created devastating debt situations for classmates.
In Scott’s money story you will learn:
-Why Scott was offered more money than needed when taking out student loans
-What Scott used his extra student loan cash to buy, and whether it was a smart financial decision
-The things his fellow students spent their extra student loan money on, and how that impacted their financial wellbeing.
-How the tech stock bubble impacted many of his peers who were leveraging student loan debt
-How much student loan debt Dr. Streenburg had, and how it compared to his peers
-The strategy he and his peers used when they could not pay the debt, along with the consequences
-Whether or not he believes taking on all the debt was worth it
In Scott’s money lesson you will learn:
-His big regret regarding the debt he incurred while in medical school
-The long-term consequences and impact to his peers that spent student loans for things other than tuition.
-The risks that medical students take on when assuming large student debt, that is unique to the medical profession.
In Scott’s money tip you will learn:
-How you can get medical school debt forgiven
In My Take you will learn:
-how to find programs that allow you have loans reduced or forgiven
-The requirements needed for student loan forgiveness
-Resources to manage, lower, and get rid of student debt
EPISODE LINKS
Government website links:
Here is the article from Robert Farrington’s The College Investor:
This is the article by Melanie Lockert.
You can also check out Melanie’s episode of Financial Grownup here!
You can consolidate your student debt, and get more information by visiting websites, including two that I mention, SoFi.com and StudentLoanHero.com
Follow Scott!
Twitter @radiology911
Transcription
Scott Steenburg:
Some of my classmates used their excess money to invest in tech stocks. It did not turn out well for them. Some of my classmates lost all of their student loan money in the dot-com bubble.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. This is a big episode here at Financial Grownup. We tried an experiment. We asked you guys to send in your money stories and your everyday money saving tips to potentially be a guest here on the show, and you know what? It worked out really well. We have our first listener episode. I am so excited for how it turned out. Our guest is fantastic. He is a radiologist in Indiana, Dr. Scott Steenburg, so let's get to Dr. Scott's story. It is about the loans that he and his medical school classmates racked up years ago.
Bobbi Rebell:
Student debt to pay tuition is one thing, but taking up more than you need to actually pay the tuition, your real school costs, is a whole other thing, and the reality is that in some cases people are talked into taking out more than they need, just in case. But remember, that money is there and sometimes it doesn't get paid back right away. Sometimes it gets invested in, oh, technology stocks that can crash and burn in the dot-com bubble. It could also go to a new car. You'll hear all about it. Here is Dr. Scott Steenburg.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Scott Steenburg. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Scott Steenburg:
Thanks a lot, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations, you are our very first listener that we are having as a guest. You're the winner, so I'm so excited to have you.
Scott Steenburg:
I'm glad to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Just quickly, tell us about you, what you do.
Scott Steenburg:
Sure. My name is Scott Steinberg. I am a radiologist in Indiana. A radiologist is a physician who specializes in interpretation of medical images such as X-ray, CAT scan, and MRI, and my subspecialty is in the emergency and trauma radiology world.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. What made you decide to write in?
Scott Steenburg:
Well, I've been listening to your podcast since the very beginning. A lot of your stories that you have on your podcast are very compelling, and when I heard that you wanted to have a listener on with a compelling story, I thought, "You know, there are some really weird things about the student loan industry," particularly with respect to medical school that I thought maybe this might be something that you haven't heard of before, so I reached out to you and told you some interesting nuggets about that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which brings us to your story, which is very interesting, especially because it has to do with your student loans, but also money that you didn't necessarily use for tuition, so tell us exactly what happened.
Scott Steenburg:
Sure. As you probably know, medical school is not cheap, so most medical students need to finance their education with student loans. At that time when I started medical in 1999, it was really easy to get a lot of loans for all four years of medical school.
Bobbi Rebell:
And how much did four years of medical school cost at the time?
Scott Steenburg:
At the time tuition, I went to an instate school, it was maybe 9,000 per semester, so 18 to 20,000 per year, which is not a whole lot by today's standards.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so go on. You were able to get financing, though, to go to school?
Scott Steenburg:
Yes, so during the interview process, you interview for getting into the medical school, and then in the afternoon you meet with a financial aid counselor to figure out how you're going to pay for medical school. At that time, I'm not sure if it's commonplace now, but at that time we were kind of nudged towards taking out the maximum allowable student loans because in future years, if you lower the amount that you requested, there was no guarantee that you'd be able to increase that number in the future, so we were kind of nudged towards just take up the maximum, and if you have access leftover you can do whatever you want with it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so how much did you take out relative to what the tuition was? You took out more than the tuition.
Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, so as a medical student it's hard to have a job to help pay for living expenses, so a lot of medical students will finance not only their tuition, but also living expenses such as food and rent and whatnot.
Bobbi Rebell:
What did you use the money for, besides living expenses? You bought a car.
Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, yeah. That's one thing that I told you about. If you have excess student loans, you can do whatever you want with it. You can either pay back immediately, which is the financially responsible thing to do. What I did one semester is I knew I had enough living expenses saved up, I already looked at my budget, I knew I wasn't going to need the student loan check, so I literally, it arrived in the mail and I walked across the street to the bank and put it in a one-year CD. At that time, the interest rate was somewhere just higher than the interest rate for the loan, so I did make a little bit on that, but it would have been smarter just to pay back right away to lower the overall balance. One thing I did in the subsequent years, I needed a new car, my car was falling apart, I needed to be able to commute from my apartment to school, so I used my excess student loan money to buy a new car.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did you need a car? I mean, was that a legit expense, or did you buy a lot more than you really needed?
Scott Steenburg:
We bought what we needed. The good thing about this, if there is a silver lining, is I put 50% down, so there's a small balance, but then I financed the rest at 7%, which was not a great idea, so I'm using the student loan money that has an interest rate at that time of 3.5% to pay off another loan that has 7%, so that was a terrible, terrible choice.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, but you told me some people did even other things like buying tech stocks.
Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, so this was in 1999 to 2003 when I was in medical school, and some of my classmates used their excess money to invest in tech stocks, and it did not turn out well for them. Some of my classmates lost all of their student loan money in the dot-com bubble.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. That's really scary. Let's talk more about you. So, we get to the end of school. Describe to me how much you had in debt and then what was happening at that point.
Scott Steenburg:
Sure, so I graduated in 2003 and immediately started residency, entered a five-year residency in radiology. At that time, the student loan balance was about 130,000 which by today's standards is a fraction of what students are graduating with. I threw out an informal poll to a closed physician Facebook group that I'm a part of, and the numbers I was getting back for current graduates was between 200 and 400,000. So by today's standards my balance was not all that big, and even the minimum payments at that time were somewhat draconian. I was making a resident salary which at that time was about $35,000 per year, and out of that, of course, I needed living expenses, had to pay for a car, had to commute every day, so even the minimum payment was tight.
Scott Steenburg:
So what a lot of students do in this instance is they first defer, and at that point you could defer up to 36 months. I think it might still be that. Then after that, if you still can't make your payments, then you can go into forbearance, which is even worse, so then throughout the entire time the interest is accruing. From the time I started medical school to the time I started paying down my loan, it was nine years, so that was a long time of compounding.
Bobbi Rebell:
So then where did it stand? How did this end up?
Scott Steenburg:
Sure. The balance tipped the scales at about 165,000. I started making very aggressive payments in 2009, and this story turns out okay. I was able to finish paying off those loans last year. Everything turned out okay, and I really don't have any complaints. Taking all these loans helped enable me to realize my dream of becoming a physician and being a radiologist and doing what I love to do, but I live in a world of chaos in the emergency and trauma world, and I see people's lives destroyed every day.
Scott Steenburg:
Nine years of deferral of putting off student loan payments is a long time. That's a long time, and anything could have happened. If I developed an illness, or if I were in a car accident like a lot of the patients I see every day, or if I developed a disability or for some reason couldn't finish residency, that would have been really, really bad. And fortunately everything turned out okay for me, but for a lot of people it doesn't.
Bobbi Rebell:
How did you feel when you would see $165,000 as your balance?
Scott Steenburg:
Honestly, I buried my head in the sand. I didn't want to think about it. When I saw the number going up every month, and each month the amount that it would increase would increase because of compounding, I put it out of sight, out of mind. I kept my eye on the prize of finishing residency, and when I got an attending job, an attending salary, I had to be able to quickly pay it off, but in retrospect, I was entering the danger zone. You know, if something bad happened that negatively impacted my ability to earn income, it may not have turned out so well, and as you know and many of your listeners know, dismissing student loans and bankruptcy is very challenging.
Bobbi Rebell:
Is that something you ever thought about?
Scott Steenburg:
No, no.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Scott Steenburg:
I knew that once I finished residency and got a job I was going to be able to pay it down. I mean, the number is big and it was moderately terrifying, but once I started seeing that number come down, I started to feel better about it. I regretted having that balanced because I knew I could be taking that money and putting it to good use elsewhere. I did some math. You know, if I didn't have student loans and I used all that money to invest, it was a much bigger return than just taking out the student loans.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway then, for our listeners? When you look back at who you were when you were first entering medical school and having these meetings with the financial aid advisors, what would you have done differently, if anything?
Scott Steenburg:
I probably would have taken the excess money that I didn't need. I would have just paid back the balance and be able to give it back. You can use debt as a tool to accomplish your goals. However, if you're going to use debt to finance an education, you have to be very mindful of that. You need to be conservative, only take out what you need and then pay back as quickly as possible. If you use debt, especially for education, incorrectly and something bad happens that negatively impacts your ability to pay back the loan, that could be financially devastating.
Bobbi Rebell:
What about these people that were ... I mean, was it a popular thing at the time to take your student loan money, and instead of using it for tuition, use it to buy stocks?
Scott Steenburg:
That was one popular thing that students did. Other students would, if they had time off, they would go on a nice vacation. Like, me, I helped buy a car. That's what a lot of the students did, and like me, a lot of them were putting it out of sight, out of mind. All we need to do is finish medical school, go to residency, get an attending job with a higher salary, and pay back the loans quickly. But as I said before, it's a long time from the time you start to the time you end and start making a physician salary to be able to pay that down aggressively, and anything could happen in that time.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is your money tip now? You have something really innovative that maybe some people don't know about, but could really be helpful.
Scott Steenburg:
One thing that exists in the medical world is a student loan forgiveness program where if you start paying off your loans even during training and you go to work for a non-profit, over a shorter period of time you'll have those loans forgiven. I'm sure there are other programs for non-medical professionals where there's a similar type track where if you go to, for example, an underserved area in your field, that you may be able to have some of your student loans forgiven or paid off.
Bobbi Rebell:
Great. Well, thank you so much, Scott. Is there anything else that you want to add? Anything you want people to know about you? How to reach you?
Scott Steenburg:
Sure. If you'd like to follow me on Twitter, I'm @Radiology911.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.
Scott Steenburg:
So that's a nod to my ... that's a nod to my-
Bobbi Rebell:
How did you get that? That's pretty cool that you got that handle.
Scott Steenburg:
I don't know. It just came to me, so I picked it. So that's a nod to what I do. I don't do a whole lot of personal finance there. Most of what I do is medical education, physician wellness, and policy, but if you like to see interesting images, that's where to go.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you, Scott. You were wonderful, and really thank you so much for supporting the program.
Scott Steenburg:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. So first, student loan debt, as Scott mentioned, is pretty hard to get rid of unless you actually pay it. It stays with you even in bankruptcy, but there are some programs that you can at least look into and some options that are emerging, some new things in just the past few years. I'm going to send you guys to government website called studentloans.gov, and from there you can look for how to repay your loans and go to repayment forms. I'm going to now walk you through some of what you'll see there just to give you a high level sense of your options.
Bobbi Rebell:
So financial grownup tip number one, some loans, like Federal Family Education Loans and Perkins Loans can be eligible for something called Public Service Loan Forgiveness. The key thing for eligibility is that you have made 120 qualifying payments under a qualifying repayment plan while working full-time for a qualifying employer. That's a lot, I know.
Bobbi Rebell:
The key thing, though, qualifying employment is generally things like government organizations, federal, state, local. They even say tribal on that government site. You guys are going to follow up and look for yourselves. Also non-profits, like those with the 501(c)(3) designation. Also some other non-profit organizations, if they provide certain public services, things like AmeriCorps or Peace Corps volunteer. So if you are interested in those things anyway, it could be something to look into that could pay off in more ways than one.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number second. Now, this is more for the for-profit schools, some of which were not living up to what they promised students, so you can also apply for something called borrower defense to repayment if you took out loans to attend a school that misled you about the educational services that you paid for with the loans. There's a lot of fine print to all of this. You have to follow up by really combing through the website. It even covers the extremely rare times that student debt can be forgiven in bankruptcy, but again, that's very rare. And also, of course, what happens to student debt if the student or the parents, who in some cases are the borrowers, pass away.
Bobbi Rebell:
A few other resources regarding student debt. Check out one of my favorite websites on this topic, The College Investor. It is run by Robert Farrington. He knows a lot about student debt. He even has a great article I'm going to leave. Well, there's many great articles, but I'm going to leave a link to an article that's one of my favorite in the show notes for more ideas to get your debt forgiven, and also answering questions about things you might have heard of that were options in the past but have now merged into other forms, so it's important to keep up with it. It's kind of a moving target, the way that the laws change. Also, SoFi and Student Loan Hero both run blogs that have a lot of useful information. I'm going to leave a link to a great article by my friend and former financial grownup podcast guest, Melanie Lockert, in the show notes as well that has some great resources.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to radiologist Scott Steenburg for being our very first listener to share their money story and advice. It was great. If you want to be considered for an upcoming episode, email us at info@financialgrownup.com. Tell us what money story and what everyday money tip you would share if you were chosen.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for your support. If you listen on Apple Podcasts, please take a moment to rate and review the podcast. If you are enjoying the podcast, please tell someone that you think would also like it. Spread the word. Post it in one of your Facebook groups and tell people to check it out. If you spot one of our video promos on Twitter or Instagram, share that, and you could win a custom one just for yourself. We're running a little competition.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm on Twitter, @bobbirebell, on Instagram, at bobbirebell1, on Facebook, at Bobbi Rebell. I can't thank Scott enough for reaching out and being our first listener to share a story. It was a good one, and something unfortunately way too many people can relate to, but I do think his story and his great advice got us all one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Writer Paulette Perhach, known for her F*** Off Fund articles and website, has been featured in Cosmo and Glamour, but collecting cash from her writing clients was killing her ability to be a financial grownup. Paulette also shares her secret to free stuff- and previews her upcoming book “Welcome to the Writer’s Life, our August 15..
In Paulette’s money story you will learn:
-Why Paulette struggles with accepting whether or not she is a financial grownup
-How Paulette became famous, but without the financial rewards following that fame
-The job Paulette had that taught the her most about sales and marketing
-What Paulette did on the day she realized she needed to make some cash- fast
-How Paulette keeps her expenses in check to allow her to pursue her writing career
-Why collecting pay, in a timely manner, is just as important as getting hired
-How Paulette adjusted her pitch to focus less on her needs, and more on her customer needs
-The strategy Paulette used to leverage the contacts she made on one day, into future long term and consistent clients
-The psychological technique Paulette uses when she feels discouraged
In Paulette’s money lesson you will learn:
-The importance of keeping expenses low when income is unpredictable- and specific strategies to do that.
-How and why pay does not line up with work, and how you can manage cash flow challenges
In Paulette’s money tip you will learn
-How she gets things for free!
-The specific items and services she has received that were given to her and why, along with how she contributes to her community
-Where you can find Buy Nothing groups
-About Paulette’s new book “Welcome to the Writers Life”
-Paulette’s advice: If you are in the arts, you are also in sales
In My Take you will learn:
-The importance of keeping overhead low when starting a business, and maintaining cost controls
-How to integrate money making ideas into things you already do and enjoy
Episode Links
Paulette' website: Fuckofffund.com
Follow Paulette- and her bank balances!
Twitter: @PaulettePerhach
Instagram: @PaulettePerhach
Hire Paulette as a writing consultant and much more!! https://hugohouse.org/store/consultant/paulette-perhach/
Pre-order Paulette’s book “Welcome to the Writers Life” !
If you want to be considered for an upcoming listener episode- email us your money story, money lesson and money tip to info@financialgrownup.com
If you want to win a free custom video promo- share and retweet the promos when you see them - and make sure to tag @bobbirebell
Transcription
Paulette Perhac:
It's never been too good to hustle. Some days, you got to hustle and yeah, I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of, How to be a Financial Grownup, but you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this. Hey friends, before we get to our awesome guest, Paulette Perhac known for what she calls in our friendly universe, the Foe fund.
Bobbi Rebell:
It'll make sense, trust me. I just want to welcome all of our new listeners to the podcast and also welcome back our regular listeners. We keep your episodes short to fit your schedule, but also to be flexible. So you can binge and hear a few great stories when you have a little more time in your day. If you are enjoying the show, please take a moment to tell a friend about it. Share it on social media, we want to get your help growing the community and we really appreciate it by the way.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Paulette, as you will hear, I joke with Paulette Perhac that she's not quite a financial grownup, but really are we ever? It's a process and for Paulette, the process has been painful at times. She has received a ton of acclaim for her writing and even has been able to raise her rates a bit, but collecting the cash, that has kept her on the financial edge and forced her to get creative. You're going to like this one. Here is Paulette Perhac. Hey Paulette Perhac you're a financial grownup or at least getting there. Welcome to the podcast.
Paulette Perhac:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
And we're getting it a little bit giggly, which will make a lot of sense in just a minute when Paulette tells her story. But you are an emerging major writer. You've had pieces all over the place including the piece that got you really famous called the F off Fund and we're going to keep it clean here so no worry. If you are in the car listening with your kids, but Paulette, before we get to your money story, tell us a little bit about this article that sort of blasted you into the universe.
Paulette Perhac:
So we call it in my family around my nephew the fore fund, so-
Bobbi Rebell:
The Fore fund, I like that.
Paulette Perhac:
As I was coming into my 30s and got a great job at a tech company and had for the first time a few thousand in the bank that didn't have a name on it. I was thinking back to some memories that I had of times that I was desperate for a job or couldn't move out because I just couldn't afford to. I realized, "Oh, it would've been so nice if I had, had this money in that bank account." And you don't really think about because humans have this optimism bias.
Paulette Perhac:
If you don't think bad situations you're going to get in. So, I really described a situation in which you do the normal thing. Where you're living paycheck to paycheck and then getting bad situations or if you decide to be someone who can have a fore fund in case you need it and what that would look like. So I described those two scenarios in the fore fund article. I thought it was just another essay and then it blew up and it went all around the world and just this month, both Cosmo and Glamour mentioned it. Two years later, which is crazy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Great, and now that's becoming a whole business, which we're going to circle back to. But I want to hear the money story that you're ready to share with us, and it's so apropos because just moments ago what crosses on my Instagram, but a snapshot of your bank account, which despite all of the success with your fore fund writing and the business that is emerging from that article, which is unbelievable, that this is all happening to you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes massive career success and prominence does not always connect to money. So, you found yourself one day with how much money in your bank account would you say?
Paulette Perhac:
So I had about $900 and my rent on my tiny place in Seattle was about to come through at 795.
Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, because we were just joking about this, your apartment is how big.
Paulette Perhac:
It's 150 square feet.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Just saying not like you're living so large.
Paulette Perhac:
Not living so large. So I was like, "What do I do?" And I had just been feeling like I'm living large because you and I were in the Catskills in New York. I'm going to these parties with like Aaron Lowery and meeting with my editor at the New York Times and having breakfast with another reporter at the New York Times.
Bobbi Rebell:
Just like big media people, big stuff that's happening.
Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, big stuff is happening. Having meetings with people who are on the Forbes Top 100 most powerful women list. Awesome, right? And we're in talks about future projects, et cetera. So, it's like everything's coming together. Then I landed home and I'm like, I have $100. I don't have any work lined up. I just posted yesterday on Instagram a timeline of something I'm about to get paid for. I pitched that story on February 12th. So that shows you how long it takes to get from pitch to payment?
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Paulette Perhac:
And so I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I'm in trouble. What am I going to do?"
Bobbi Rebell:
You need cash immediately.
Paulette Perhac:
I need cash. Yeah. So the panic starts to rise up, right? And I've really realized this year that the panic is not helping you and so you just have to calm down whenever you feel those feelings. I'm like, what will help you feel more powerful? I'm like, you need like an adult lemonade stand, and I just decided a lemonade stand-
Bobbi Rebell:
And by lemonade stand, what do you mean?
Paulette Perhac:
I mean like a personal mini business from which you feel fairly confident you could make some money in the next 24 hours and that's marketing, execution and billing. So, I took the last of my business cards and I printed up a label for the back. Mother's Day was that Sunday, so I'm like, Mother's Day, I'm hustling. So I printed up labels that said mother's Day photos, like quick and easy or quick and fun. Mother's Day photos, 15 minutes, 20 bucks.
Paulette Perhac:
And I took my camera. I looked at like, what are my assets, right? I have a car, I could drive around, I can't do uber, it's from 1996. So I could deliver food.
Bobbi Rebell:
Uber has standards.
Paulette Perhac:
Uber has standards, I do not. A to B, that's my standard. So I looked at my other asset, which is this really nice camera that I bought as an investment in my writing, in travel writing business. So I just went around and hustled all day, Mother's Day. I think I walked six miles. I ran out of business cards, but I-
Bobbi Rebell:
What was your pitch? Tell us your pitch.
Paulette Perhac:
My pitch. I started by being like, "Hi, I'm a local writer and a photographer," and people were just like, "ugh." So, I realize I'm talking about myself. Nope, so it evolves over the day to focus on the customer and I just said, "Hi, happy mother's Day," because no one's like, "Go away if you say Happy Mother's Day." I said, "Happy Mother's day, if you guys want a nice photo, I'm doing $20 portraits today." So it was a really fun day overall.
Paulette Perhac:
I felt empowered. I felt like I was taking control and then I got some follow up clients actually, I'm rewriting one of the groups of women. One of them was from San Francisco. She's a realtor from San Francisco. We got to talking. They were great, I gave them a little bit of extra time just because it was fun, and she is hiring me to rewrite her bio for 300 bucks.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's so awesome. That's so awesome. Wait, so how much did you make that day and how much did you make from that day going forward?
Paulette Perhac:
So my supplies were 12, and then I had to get more cards printed, which was like 33. So I was like, "Oh my gosh." So after taking those out, I only made $85 that day, which is not a ton, it's not nothing. What I realized was that I now have given my card out to a bunch of people who know I'm a photographer.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Paulette Perhac:
One woman was pregnant, she asked me if I do maternity photos, and then next time what I'll do is just have an A frame sign and stay in one place. Because I think that, that will be more successful, less hustling work for me. I laid down at the end of that day in the park after giving out all my cards, and I was just pooped. I felt really good. I felt like the best kind of exhausted.
Bobbi Rebell:
But you did something.
Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, I did something.
Bobbi Rebell:
You did something, like you had a problem, and you did something proactive to solve it instead of just kind of living in your panic about money.
Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, and I think self-pity is really dangerous, especially if you work in the arts, because you have to remember like I chose this life, what am I going to do about it? Sitting there and just being like, "Wheh, I don't get paid on time. Wheh, it's hard to be a writer." Not saying I never sit there, but when I'm in that space I realize that it's dangerous.
Bobbi Rebell:
Talk about the lessons that you would share with our listeners. What's the takeaway here?
Paulette Perhac:
So I think the takeaway is knowing that you don't owe a whole lot. So for me low overhead is really important. You know, it's just nice to know that my rent including utilities, is 795, I almost never feel like, "Oh I can't pay that." I also have a book coming out in August, so that's a lot of unpaid marketing work for the book.
Paulette Perhac:
So I think having that plan, like knowing like what would I do today if I needed money and just knowing, so like for example, I'm going to go to a music festival over Memorial Day and I'm going to do it again, taking music festival portraits there. I'm really excited about that, and I think it's going to get better and better, and I'm going to make more and more every time I need to do that.
Paulette Perhac:
And I think eventually I won't need to do it anymore, but it's never been too good to hustle too. Some days you got to hustle, and yeah I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.
Bobbi Rebell:
So Paulette, tell us about your money tip.
Paulette Perhac:
So my favorite secret money tip is to join a buy nothing group, which are these groups that are popping up that kind of celebrate trading, and giving and, just offering if you have anything. And so I just got a Le Creuset casserole dish on it yesterday. I got a vacuum last week, and then when I moved into my tiny place, and I had a ton of stuff to give away, I gave away a bunch of stuff. I just got a haircut this morning on the buy nothing group at a place that usually probably costs 100 bucks for a haircut.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, how do they make sure that people don't come on and just take, take, take.
Paulette Perhac:
You could just take, take, take. I haven't seen that problem yet. You know, I think people are willing to give. It's things that they would be giving away anyway, but I have found that the more that I get from it, the more I want to give. And people have offered financial advice, people have offered instruments, and it's just kind of this nice community, especially if you live in a big city, it's a very small area. So now I kind of know my neighbors more.
Bobbi Rebell:
So how do you find these groups?
Paulette Perhac:
So I would google buy nothing, mine is the Facebook group.
Bobbi Rebell:
Is there criteria to get in, or they just let anyone in? How is it? It sounds too good to be true.
Paulette Perhac:
I know, right? Well, I think the thing is I've been in both situations where the things that people have given me have helped me so much to get new furniture or whatever. And so then once I got from the group giving was a pleasure.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're also so much part of the writer's community. You spend so much of your time and energy giving back to other writers and supporting writers. Tell us about your book that's coming out soon. It's happening.
Paulette Perhac:
So on August 15th, my book, Welcome to the Writer's life is coming out, which is everything I've learned about the writing business, the writing craft and the writing life from being in a writing community. So it's a very crowd sourced book and very much wanting to give back what I've gained from living in a creative community. And it's like freshman orientation for new writers, and a lot of people have benefited from it even if they do business writing or side writing. You don't have to be a full time writer, you just have to want to get joy out of the act of writing.
Bobbi Rebell:
And what have you learned in your years about the business of writing? In other words, you talk about how hard it is to get paid.
Paulette Perhac:
I think if you're in the arts, you are also in sales, which we don't want to say out loud, but you have your leads, you have to bring your value prop, like you have to sell your stuff, and consider yourself a business. I wish that I had said I'm starting a freelance business, rather than I'm going freelance because that's what it is. So you're not ready for operations and marketing and sales and you just get sledge hammered by the reality of like, "Oh I got to go sell today," which is like what you have to do.
Paulette Perhac:
So I've been in it like two years full-time, and I'm just now like, I have a whole share point for my writing business. I'm getting serious because I don't want to fail.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Miss Paulette, how can people find you and follow you and hire you most importantly?
Paulette Perhac:
Yes so send money to ... No. I'm on Twitter @Pauletteperhac. My website is fuckofffund spelled out, .com, so fuckofffund.com, and I'm on Instagram @PauletteJperhac where you can see my bank balances. Just google me and you'll find me, and I have a lot of different projects. Mostly I want to bring people who want to live creative lives. I want to help them make the creative life happen while I figure it out. That's really the thing is like I'm someone who's traditionally bad with money.
Paulette Perhac:
I'm getting better with money and want to live that creative life. I love my life. I love my day to day that this is my life and I want to make it work. So I want to help other people do it too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we love watching your star rise, so thank you so much.
Paulette Perhac:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
There is so much we can all learn from Paulette. I hope you enjoyed that interview. Financial Grownup tip number one. When you are running a business or just the business of your life, keep your overhead low. Paulette lives in a very expensive city, but she makes it work by keeping those costs down and living anything but large. Her apartment, as she mentioned, is a 150 square feet. That's a closet to some people, some very fortunate people, but still some people.
Bobbi Rebell:
She also literally does not pay for things. She's in a buy nothing group. So maybe find a buy nothing group near you. What a great tip. Financial Grownup tip number two, integrate your hustle into things you're already doing. Paulette loves to go to concerts and festivals, so she brings her camera and her business cards and you know what? She makes money even while living her life. Thanks Paulette. We have our first listener episode coming up very soon in the month of June.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us at info@financialgrownup and tell us what the story is and what your everyday money tip would be if you were to be chosen. Thank you for being part of our Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating or review. And of course hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any episodes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Follow me on Twitter @Bobbirebell, on Instagram @Bobbirebell1, and by the way, thanks for the great feedback on our promo videos. If you would like one for you or for your business, share the video when you see them. We'll be making one for whoever shares the most between now and July, 1st. You could even see them by the way, on our new YouTube channel. Just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, and you will find it.
Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, soon after we taped Paulette's interview, she did finally get paid by her client, so a happy ending there. A quick reminder, Paulette's book, Welcome to the Writer's Life is available for pre order, so go get it. I think it's safe to say her story successfully brought us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
