After witnessing a friend make over $100,000 trading stocks, Dr. Brad Klontz went all in.. just in time for the tech bubble to bust. He lost the cash, but learned a lot of lessons about the market, and his own mental wealth. Plus: the quiz you can take to find out if you have a money disorder, and what to do about it. 

Brad’s Money Story:

Dr Brad Klontz:
So I didn't start out to be a financial psychologist. I actually started out to be a clinical psychologist, so to get through school I had to take out student loans and I'm sure some other people can relate to this situation. When I got out of school, I owed $100,000 in debt; student loan debt.

Dr Brad Klontz:
I grew up lower middle class. My mom says we were middle-class but lower and taught to be a healthy saver, not to overspend. I was also taught never have any debt, however, that was the only way I could get through school. So I, just to sort of set the stage, I had a lot of anxiety about having this debt. It was something that I wasn't comfortable with.

Bobbi Rebell:
How much debt did you have?

Dr Brad Klontz:
About a hundred thousand dollars?

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a lot.

Dr Brad Klontz:
Yeah, it was a lot, especially back then, but that's what I had to do to get my doctorate.

Dr Brad Klontz:
So I started my internship year. I was over in Hawaii and I saw a friend of mine make $100,000 that year, trading stocks. I would sit next to him at the computer and he'd be like, "Oh, I just bought 200 shares of EMC." I'm like, "What's EMC?" He's like, "I have no clue. Ha, ha, ha." Click. I saw him make $100,000 in the course of a year. I thought, what a brilliant way for me to get out of debt. So I'll just do the same thing.

Dr Brad Klontz:
So I sold what I had of value, which for me mainly was a truck and I put it all in the stock market.

Bobbi Rebell:
How much?

Dr Brad Klontz:
For me it was about like 10 or $15,000. I mean, I cobbled together everything I had and I had nothing beyond that and I put it all in the stock market. So this was everything I owned.

Bobbi Rebell:
Based on this one observation?

Dr Brad Klontz:
Well, I observed this over the course of about a year. So I watched this person make $100,000 trading stocks. So that's where I, where I came up with this idea. So I studied it for six months. I didn't just dive right in, Bobbi, but then I did. I dove right in and I had a fabulous two or three months and then the tech bubble crashed and I sat there and I watched all this money melt away. It was just a terrifying, terrible. I felt so ashamed and embarrassed. I couldn't believe I would do something so radically stupid with my money and I turned to the field of psychology. I did what grad students are very familiar with; I did a literature review, so I was going to dive into psychology and find these studies that have been done to help explain why a reasonably intelligent person would do something so stupid with his money.

Dr Brad Klontz:
I started to do the searches and I found nothing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Really?

Dr Brad Klontz:
Yeah. Really the field of psychology at utterly ignore the topic of money for decades. So I was kind of bummed by that. What I wanted to do was read a few studies, get my head straight, and move forward with my life as a clinical psychologist.

Dr Brad Klontz:
What I discovered is there was nothing there and so I decided to actually have to dig it around in my own financial psychology and what I found is that it was all my mother's fault.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Dr Brad Klontz:
That's sort of a psychology joke.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, your father, you're now in business with your father.

Dr Brad Klontz:
Exactly. But psychologists like to pick on mothers for some reason, typically because they're the ones who are most involved in there. But what I did is I actually, I did, I was like, okay, so I've learned, everything I've learned pretty much from my parents. So what I did is I hopped on a plane and I went back home and I sat down with my mother and then I did this with my father too, and I interviewed them, almost like an anthropologist would.

Dr Brad Klontz:
I'm like, okay, so I have this money psychology, I have no idea really what it is. I have a lot of anxiety around money, but where did it come from? So I sat down with my parents and by the way, as a grad student, I'd put them through this before and so it wasn't unfamiliar. So I was asking my mother, what was it like for you growing up? What was it like for grandma and grandpa around money? I got to tell you, Bobbi, I was shocked by some of the stories I heard.

Bobbi Rebell:
Like what?

Dr Brad Klontz:
Well, the one that was the most shocking for me was that my grandfather, my maternal grandfather, he lost all of his money and the family's money in the Great Depression. So he went to the bank one day and the doors shut. You have no more money. This was a traumatic experience and a lot of the research that we've done since then, there are a lot of these traumatic experiences around money that people have experienced in families or entire cultures or groups of people, and the story gets passed down in the anxiety gets passed down.

Dr Brad Klontz:
That's what happened to him and he's not alone. That happened to a lot of people, but what I didn't know is he lived to be in his mid-nineties he never put a dollar in the bank the rest of his life. That was such a traumatic experience for him.

Dr Brad Klontz:
He's like, you can't trust banks with your money; never put money in the bank again. He put it in a lockbox in his attic and of course it wasn't going so well for him financially and when he passed away, he was living in a trailer park. Super great guy, very generous guy, but was so traumatized by what happened around money, never even entered the door of possibly getting some interest or investing.

Dr Brad Klontz:
Now, my mother had tons of anxiety around money. I knew that. She didn't invest in the stock market, but she would put money in the bank and CDs. What I realized was there's this entire family story that I hadn't even heard of, but I'm playing out the next chapter and of course growing up in that family, I'm like, I don't want to be poor like you guys, so I'm going to do the opposite of what you did.

Dr Brad Klontz:
So I, I call it like a dysfunctional pendulum swing. I went from extremely anxious and conservative to the most risky possible investment and I got burned really badly and if I wasn't a psychologist, I wonder if I wouldn't have sort of blamed the market. This is actually what we're seeing happen now with a lot of millennials where they saw their parents go through a trauma; losing a house, delaying retirement, that kind of thing and there's a general mistrust of the markets and financial institutions within that generation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you think that's why a lot of millennials, and we're totally stereotyping here, guys are less into buying houses as a generation and less into credit cards, more into debit cards and more in to experiences than owning stuff because stuff you can kind of lose and experience is with you forever.

Dr Brad Klontz:
I think so, and again it is a generalization, but I think that there are surveys that have really borne this out like this. This is a real thing. Like they experienced a cultural phenomenon that has impacted how they look at money, how they look at investing, how they look at risk, and so absolutely. Just like that Great Depression generation had a cultural experience that led to a bunch of hoarding, frankly. A lot of people know relatives who lived through that, who are a bit of hoarders. They're saving stuff. They don't want to get rid of it. They have anxiety about not having enough.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you pull the money out when the market crashed in the tech bubble or did you ride it out?

Dr Brad Klontz:
You know what, I did a combination. I think I actually still own a couple legacy stocks from then that I just hold on to just as a reminder that that we're all vulnerable. We're all potentially vulnerable to emotional decisions around money. I took it in the chin. A lot of these were stocks that just basically went belly up because things were ridiculously crazy back then.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh okay. So it wasn't even an option to ride them out because a lot of good companies went down and then eventually came back.

Dr Brad Klontz:
Absolutely. But I was on the, I was going after the riskiest stocks possible within that tech sector because that's what I had seen my friend do and make $100,000.

“We are vulnerable to emotional decisions around money.”

Brad’s Money Lesson:

Dr Brad Klontz:
So the lesson is this, that the craziest behaviors you have around money, the things that you must struggle with, you're not crazy. They make perfect total sense.

Dr Brad Klontz:
If you understand the story that your family experienced around money and the beliefs that you got based on that story, either your direct experience or the experience that was passed down to you, and the research that we do, we call them money scripts. These are those typically subconscious beliefs you have about money and we've done a dozen studies on this now. These beliefs will predict income, net worth, a whole host of financial behaviors including credit card debt, et cetera.

Dr Brad Klontz:
So these beliefs are extremely powerful and most of us have no idea they're clanking around in our head. So yeah, that's the message I would give.

“I was going after the riskiest stocks possible within that tech sector because that is what I had seen my friend do and make $100,000.”

Brad’s Money Tip:

Dr Brad Klontz:
Absolutely. So it's understanding those money scripts and there's a couple of different ways to do it.

Dr Brad Klontz:
On Yourmentalwealthadvisors.com I've got the test that we've used in all those studies. That's a quick, simple way to look at them, or another way is to actually sit back with a paper and pencil and ask yourself, what three things did my mother teach me about money? What three things did my father teach me about money? If you have the benefit of them being still alive, go interview them, ask them stories. What was it like for them growing up? What was it like for your grandparents? Because again, these messages get trickled down. We have no idea where they came from, but they totally drive all our financial behaviors.

“We saw a 73 percent increase in savings when people got really excited about what they were saving for.”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

After you take Doctor Brad's Money Disorders Test, which as you heard called me out as being a workaholic and sometimes to a not healthy level, actually do something about it. In my case, Doctor Brad got me started with some ideas by pointing me to a recent video he did on YouTube for workaholics. Among the tips, taking the Rocking Chair Test where you reflect on your life and you think about where you wish you had spent more of your time. We will leave a link to that video in the show notes.

Financial grownup tip number two:

One of the things that Doctor Brad does is that he has a money mantra. For him, it goes something like this. I worked very hard today. I'm really happy with what I did. Now my wife, my children and my health are actually more important to me, so I'm going to stop working right now and I'm going to leave. So maybe we should all make money mantras. Something I've thought about before, still haven't done, something to think about.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Brad’s website - www.yourmentalwealth.com

• Paul Ollinger’s Financial Grownup Episode

• The workaholic video I mentioned

• Money Disorder Assessment

Follow Brad!

• Instagram - @DrBradKlontz

• Facebook - @DrBradKlontz

• Twitter - @DrBradKlontz

• LinkedIn - @DrBradKlontz

• YouTube - @DrBradKlontz

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

The Bigger Pockets “Fi Guy” Craig Curelop reveals the insider strategies he used to build wealth through real estate and previews his new book "The House Hacking Strategy: How to Use Your Home to Achieve Financial Freedom"

4 things you need to know to succeed at house hacking

• What is House Hacking

• The Power (Wealth Builders) of House Hacking- how does it build wealth compared to other investments

• How to use House Hacking to Obtain Financial Independence

• Examples of Craig’s House Hacking Experience

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Craig’s website - www.craigcurelop.com

• Craig’s Book The House Hacking Strategy

• www.cozy.co

Follow Craig!

• Instagram - @thefiguy

• Facebook - @craig.curelop

• Twitter - @craigcurelop

• LinkedIn

Follow BiggerPockets!

• Instagram - @biggerpockets

• Facebook - @BiggerPockets

• Twitter - @BiggerPockets

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

After buying 39 properties in one year, real estate investor, blogger and podcaster Chad “Coach” Carson had second thoughts about his fast paced business, and totally reworked his business, to reflect his values. 

Chad’s Money Story:

Chad Carson:
Yeah, so you can imagine sprinting up a mountain is probably not a good idea for anybody. Sprinting up's a little dangerous. But my story is I graduated from college about 18 years ago almost now. Amazing. But I graduated from college, I thought I would go into one career as a, I was biology major, pre-med. I thought that's what I would do. I took a break just to be an entrepreneur, and I started flipping houses, like finding properties to buy and got into the real estate investing thing, and I-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Back it up a little. How does that just happen?

Chad Carson:
Yeah, so I just read some books on a shelf. My father was in rental properties, had rental properties, and so he happened to have some real estate books on his shelf. I'm at home post-college saying, "What am I going to do with my life?" I said, "I think I'm going to do this instead for a couple of years instead of going to medical school," which was a little crazy at the time because that was the normal path I probably should take in society. But I decided to be an entrepreneur. I lived at home for a year. My second year in business, I lived in my business partner's spare bedroom for free, so I was just basically bootstrapping it as long as-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait.

Chad Carson:
... I could.

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, was your father helping you? Who was your business partner? How did you get to that point?

Chad Carson:
Yeah, so my parents definitely helped me the first year because I lived at home.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were they wanting you to go to medical school, or were they happy for you to kind of-

Chad Carson:
They were happy for me to do this as well, so I had support from them. My father was an entrepreneur. My mother was a dentist, so she's in the medical field, but they, they were happy with it. They were encouraging me, so I was very fortunate in that respect. But after a year, I was on my own, and so this has saved up some money, moved to a different state. That's when I met a, it was a friend of mine from college and we just went into business together. Neither one of us have business experience with real estate. Neither one of us had a lot of money, so it wasn't the smartest type of start as a real estate venture, but we were scrappy. We liked the hustle, and we were ready to sprint, which I guess is kind of part of the part of the story.

Chad Carson:
We went to a class, and we watched a... the person who's teaching that class had some really exciting, kind of inspiring goals where they were buying and selling a lot of properties. We just sort of gravitated to that and said, "Hey, that sounds good. That's a good goal to have. Why don't we go buy and sell a lot of properties?" They were buying and selling like 50 properties per year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, wait. Let me just stop you there because there's a fine line between the people that are the real deal that will legitimately teach you, and then there's a lot of people out there that make a lot of promises to people. These real estate conferences or presentations and they say, "We're going to help you do that," are notorious for not always being on the-

Chad Carson:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
... up and up. How did you-

Chad Carson:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
... know that yours was a good one, and what can people watch for if they go to these seminars to know if they're at a good one or not?

Chad Carson:
You hit the nail on the head that a lot of those are a little bit more rah-rah than they are the practical nuts and bolts of "here's how you do it." We took the rah-rah. I was 23 years old and just said, "Oh, we can do this. Let's go do it." As naive as that sounds, that's what I did. I would say, to go back to your question though, yeah, I always found that I got good information from a lot of things, but I would avoid paying, like there's, there's some where you, they're almost like pyramid schemes where you get in for free for one day. Then you have to pay 300 bucks to go for the weekend, and then you have to pay 10,000 bucks for our consulting and our course that lasts for six months. When they started getting in the pyramid scheme thing, you've lost me there. When you're brand new and you don't have much money and they're asking you to put money on credit cards and get a lot of credit card debt in order to learn about real estate investing, that's a problem. That-

Bobbi Rebell:
So look for red flags. What are the green flags?

Chad Carson:
The green flags are people who are doing it, who are still investing, and who are out there buying properties, who own rental properties. For me, the green flag is that they're not pushing you to do financially stupid things in order to buy their thing. If you're having to go into a lot of debt with credit cards to buy some person's program, yeah, that's a problem. You could spend that same amount of money going and buying an investment, and so that's an issue. We did spend some money on education. We did go to some classes obviously, but to our, I guess to our benefit, we went out and applied a lot of it. We started buying and selling a lot of houses and-

Bobbi Rebell:
How did get the capital to start? This is from saving from living at home for the one year?

Chad Carson:
No. We partnered with other people. I'm just getting out of college, and so I met a professor from Clemson University where I went to school, go Tigers, and this professor just mentioned that he invested in real estate. I just sort of stuck to him like glue after class and said, "Hey, could I follow you around or jump in your car and go look at your houses, just sort of... " probably annoying a little bit. But he recognized some sincerity there, and so I just started asking questions and learning from him and eventually said, "I'm out looking for properties. If I found a really good deal, is there some way you could put up the money, and we could both make a profit on this?"

Chad Carson:
He said yes. He started putting up some of the money. He's actually, to this day, 18 years later, the form of getting the money has changed, but that he's still been a private lender for our business almost 18 years later. We help fund his retirement. We pay him interest every month that allows him to do whatever he wants to do and travel with his family, and we have rental properties that allow us to pay him interest, and we make money as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so you started out with a very ambitious plan with a partner, with an investor. What happens next?

Chad Carson:
Yeah, we got overheated. We bought... We got too big too fast. I guess the big issue was, or the sprint up the real estate mountain was that we went to classes, and other people were saying that bigger was better and buying a lot of properties is good, but we never really thought about like, why would we do that? What's the result of this in our lives that makes it good to get bigger and do it faster?

Chad Carson:
In 2007, so kind of history lesson that, recent history that people probably remember, 2007, 2008 a great recession, economy collapses, lots of real estate is kind of the core problem with that. We bought 30, we had 39 closings where we bought properties in 2007.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. I can't even imagine keeping track of all that.

Chad Carson:
Yeah, we got systematized. We were very organized. I'm organized. I've built business systems, and most of those are really good deals actually. We flipped some properties that made 50, 60,000 bucks on flipping a house, fixing it up and flipping it, so we did well. We had money in the bank. But we also bought some properties that were rental properties that we would keep for a longer period of times, and we made mistakes on a handful of them. Not all of them. We've made mistakes where we bought in wrong locations. We underestimated some of the remodel costs. What should have been a $15,000 budget was really a $30,000 budget for our remodel.

Chad Carson:
The long and short of it is, is that we got to the end of 2007, and I'll give credit to my business partner more than me, we were like, "We gotta slow this train down. We're going sprinting up this real estate mountain, but we're not really sure why we're going so fast and doing all this," and so we stepped back and thought about it and sort of reoriented our business and our goals. We each made a list of saying, "What are the things that are important to you in your life that this business and that the money this business is generating can support?" like what is it? It was really eye-opening because, on my list, I wrote down things like play pick-up basketball for two hours in the middle of the day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Chad Carson:
You know how much money does that cost?

Bobbi Rebell:
Zero.

Chad Carson:
Zero. I had a pick-up basketball game-

Bobbi Rebell:
But it cost your time, Chad.

Chad Carson:
It cost-

Bobbi Rebell:
It cost your time.

Chad Carson:
Exactly, and so that was the big aha moment was that money is important. Money is one currency. It's not the only currency. I got that idea from the exact same time I read The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss, which, so that idea itself of that you have multiple currencies in your life, money's a really important one, but a lot of the time, we sell all of our other currencies like our time and our flexibility, and we sell those for the highest bidder. We get to make the most money, and that's not the way it always needs to work, that you... especially as an entrepreneur and for all of us, if we're investing our own money on the side, we can decide how we orient and prioritize our life to some extent. That's what we tried to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
What happened with the business? You took it down a notch. What happened with these properties? 2007 was not a good year. 2008 I should say.

Chad Carson:
2008 was worse than 2007. We didn't buy that many properties after that. That's the long and short. We had some money saved in the bank, thankfully. We were very frugal. We didn't spend much of the money that we made, so that was a smart move. But we had to use a lot of that money because we had a lot of negative cashflow on certain properties where the tenant moved out and we had an extra 10 or 15,000 repairs that we didn't think we had, and so it was sort of a game of just pivoting, changing, learning how to be really good rental landlords, learning how to handle your cash flow and financing.

Chad Carson:
We did okay though. We didn't make any money for a year or two, but we didn't lose a bunch of money either. We got through that and sold some properties. We refinanced some properties, and we bought some new properties because it was one of the best times, and probably all of our lifetimes is 2009, 2010, 2011 to buy real estate because we had good relationships with people like my professor and other people we borrowed money from. We were actually able to buy some of the best deals we ever had in the years following that once we recovered and kind of got out of there.

“A lot of the time we sell our time and our flexibility for the highest bidder. We get to make the most money. And that is not the way it always needs to work”

Chad’s Money Lesson:

Chad Carson:
I think the lesson, no matter whether you're in business or not, whether you invest in real estate or not, is to be more deliberate with your money goals. For us, that was a really big aha that, money's important, but it's not the only thing in the equation. We probably all know this intuitive, that money's not everything, there's other things more important in life, but I don't know how often, at least I didn't, actually put that into effect and prioritize that with your money, with your investing, with your business, actually like put those other things in your life.

Chad Carson:
We really did that. Actually, my wife and I took a four-month mini retirement kind of trip in 2009 where we said, "I'm not going to make any money for the next four months. In fact, we're going to save money for a while and just take off and travel." Travel was important to us, and we had to prioritize that and balance that in into our lives. I think just everybody's got different flexibility and abilities to be able to do that, but we can start prioritizing and balancing those.

“Be more deliberate with your money goals. Money is important but it is not the only thing in the equation. ”

Chad’s Money Tip:

Chad Carson:
Yeah. My tip is that you and I, like we are, the people who are listening to this, we are our number one asset. We think about sometimes investing our money and our time into investments and money, in businesses, but what about improving ourselves? My tip is, one thing I like to do is I actually prioritize and budget a little bit of time every day, usually in the morning for me when I actually read a book or listen to a podcast like this or watch a YouTube video specifically trying to improve a skill or something that I really want to learn, so you can have pleasure reading and enjoying reading, which is great too, but actually trying to get better at something.

Chad Carson:
For me for the last six months, I've been trying to get better at YouTube and creating YouTube videos. I'm like a broken record. My wife's like, "Are you watching another how to do YouTube video chat?" I'm like, "Yep, that's what I'm doing right now." For 20 minutes a day, I'm budgeting that time, I'm getting better at it. You'd be amazed how good you can get at anything if you budget some time, budget some money, maybe to go to a class, go to a conference. If you want to get good at being on YouTube and making YouTube videos, within six months, you can get really good at it if you prioritize and focus your time on it. That's my tip is to budget your money and time to improve yourself, to improve your own skills, and that actually leads to not only money, but also other skills, other happiness skills, other things that you want to do in your life.

“We are our #1 asset. Prioritize and budget a little bit of time every day.. specifically trying to improve a skill or something that I really want to learn. Try to get better at something. ”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Chad talks about taking time to educate yourself maybe 20 minutes a day. I couldn't agree more, but I want to add that one way to accomplish this is to add an accountability element by telling someone and maybe making it mutual. Check in on each other. I know that when I was studying for the CFP, Certified Financial Planner, exam, I was being checked on by some friends who had recently passed the exam, and that really helped. If you were taking an online class, maybe get a friend to take it as well so you guys can keep up with each other and stay on track.

Financial grownup tip number two:

One of the best things that Chad was able to do was to buy property when prices were cheap but at time when a lot of other people just didn't have the resources because he did. He had cash on the side ready to go when there were opportunities. He wasn't over leveraged, and that can be applied to all parts of our lives. Having available resources for when others aren't so flush can be a huge advantage.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Chad’s website - www.coachcarson.com

• Chad’s podcast - Coach Carson Podcast

• Your Money or Your Life

• The 4-hour Workweek

Follow Chad!

• Instagram - @coachcarson1

• Facebook - @coachchadcarson

• Twitter - @CoachChadCarson

• LinkedIn - @coachcarson

• Pinterest - @chadcarson1

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Careers are no longer linear or one size fits all. Apres Group co-founder Jennifer Gefsky and CEO Stacey Delo break down 10 specific ways to control your work, so that it works with your life. Plus a sneak peak of their new book, “Your Turn: Career, Kids and Comebacks”.

10 Ways to Dial up and Down Your Career

1. Ask yourself smart questions to get ahead of career confusion 

2. Set yourself up for success if you decide to stay in the workforce 

3. Rally your support system -- having a village is key 

4. Give up on failure and guilt 

5. Learn what you have to do to save for a career break 

6. Don't lose sight of yourself 

7. Understand when freelance, part-time or flex work might be the best fit for you, and learn how to do it successfully 

8. Think about alternate paths back into a career 

9. Learn how to tell your Gap Story, and interview with confidence 

10. Negotiate for what you want 

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Jennifer and Stacey’s book Your Turn

Jennifer and Stacey’s website - apresgroup.com

Follow Jennifer and Stephanie!

• Facebook - @apresgroupnyc

• Instagram - @apres_group

• Twitter - @apresnyc

• Pinterest - @apres0323

• LinkedIn - @après

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Ghost writer Stephanie Krikorian trusted a financial planner with her investments after a big layoff a decade ago. But years later discovered blind trust was costing her, and learned to read the paperwork, and take grownup ownership of her money strategy.  

Stephanie's money story:

Steph Krikorian:
So, basically, I get laid off and I did two quick things. I refinanced while I still had a paycheck coming in, because rates were down and they hadn't been for awhile. I thought that was a smart thing to do. Secondly, I went to this financial planner and merged several 401ks, because I had been at several jobs and never really paid much attention to it. I always put in the max that I could, et cetera. But I thought, "This will help me move it, and then I can focus on finding a job or starting a business, whichever I'm going to do."

Steph Krikorian:
I remember meeting with this financial planner and asking a very specific question, "How are you paid?" My understanding when I left that meeting, and I interview people for a living, so I feel fairly confident I was given a certain answer and didn't make that mistake, but maybe I did, my understanding was the payment for the financial planner was based on money I made, so that if I made 10%, the financial planner was paid a percentage of that. So, I do all these things, and I am on my own little austerity program. I'm doing a single pump of shampoo. You can read about all the crazy things I did to not waste money while I was trying to, you know, make sure I didn't overspend. ,I was trying to stay on my budget. I invested. I knew I had to save. Even when there was no money coming in, even though I cut everything else out, I scraped together a certain amount of money.

Steph Krikorian:
So, in the meantime, I start going on the Zen Bender, because I start reading self-help books. I've reinvented myself. I start reading self-help books. I start getting obsessed-

Bobbi Rebell:
This is all because you're ghostwriting a lot of them too, so you're really immersing yourself in your material.

Steph Krikorian:
That's how it started. I really was immersing myself in the material, because everybody has a book idea, and then they say, "Oh, it's like the Suze Orman of such and such or the Marie Kondo of such and such." So, I was reading for research, but as I read, I also got a little obsessed, because I said, "Oh my God. There's all these fixes out there. I must have all these holes in my life to fill. I'm single. I'm thick around the middle, because everyone wants to lose a few pounds. I'm trying to figure out my career." So, I started grasping at all these things a little more than necessary, as per the research.

Steph Krikorian:
So, I take my eye off the ball of what I think I had set up with the financial planner, and I spend hoards of money on Reiki, and rainbow healers, and dating coaches. You know, I could've basically probably gone to law school instead and done something productive. But all of this time I think, "You know, I've made my budget. I'm following the rules. I'm being careful." But somewhere in all that mishmash, kind of the point of the Zen Bender was I lost a little bit of confidence. I stopped trusting my gut and I kind of took my eye off the ball of the important things and ceded a lot of power to these ... you know, this dating coach who's telling me, "You've got to wear high heels and have shiny hair in order to find a husband, because he'll think you're fertile, and he'll want to marry you."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And probably very expensive heels too.

Steph Krikorian:
[inaudible 00:06:24] I got $200 a pop, but if you do five, then of course X,Y,Z is going to happen. The doors will open up. I had started treating my business like a business. Even though it's writing, I formed an LLC. I have a lawyer. I outsource things like copy editing, because I wanted to only do the work that was mission-critical. So, I was making enough money. It wasn't like I was on my credit card doing this stuff. You know? There were lean years the first couple of years. Then I started getting on my feet and I started making enough money.

Steph Krikorian:
Somewhere in there I have a call from my financial planner. Also, in fairness, if I step back and look at it, she gave me a couple of pieces of advice which were, "Sell all your stock from your first job," which was General Electric stock, which at the time was not a good suggestion, and, "Dump this apartment, even at a loss." I disregarded both pieces of advice. I was not going to dump that apartment at a loss. I was going to make my payments, and I was going to save it, that investment. So, I didn't take that warning sign, you know? That should have made me a little nervous, and it didn't, because I knew better. I'd worked in financial news, like you, and I knew that wasn't right. Every year I'm putting together the maximum I can scrape in and put in, but nothing's really moving in the fund. I'm in one of those funds as you age, you know, with the term and the end.

Bobbi Rebell:
The target date fund, which sometimes have double fees. Sometimes those can be very expensive.

Steph Krikorian:
Right. It didn't seem to be doing a lot, and I thought, "Oh, it must just be the time, you know. Whatever." So, we have this call and she suggests, since I've reached a certain milestone, she explains there's this, you know, almost like a fund of funds with these various ETFs in the same thing. It sort of ages as you go and it's really something to consider. I said, "Okay. Great. I guess so. Sure." She said, "And the fee is so much less. It's almost half,| or whatever. I say, "Oh, what's the fee been generally, because it shouldn't ... you know, we haven't made a lot of money, so it couldn't possibly be very high." She tells me the percentage, and I do the math, and I get furious.

Steph Krikorian:
I'm like, "Wait a minute. You're charging more out of my fund than I'm depositing every year. You should have seen that." You know, she said, "Well, I don't keep track of who's putting in more or who's not." I'm like, "That's your single job. That's like your only job, to be ... Maybe you should've stopped and said, 'Hey. I don't think you need to be in here. Just go to Fidelity and buy a fund.'" I was mad at her, but honestly I was more mad at myself, because the one thing I probably should have spent the time on was understanding what was going on there. But I got so lost in the haze of all the chaos and life change that was happening, that I trusted the professional to handle it, and I don't think ... She didn't do anything negligent or anything like that. She did what she told me she would do. It's just I didn't double check. I think you have to stay on top of these things, because the single most important thing is your money, period. It really is.

“Nobody reads the fine print. So you have to do your own annual or semi-annual check in and now I do. I check very rigorously all my financial statements. ”

Stephanie’s money lesson:

Steph Krikorian:
Double check, double check, double check, and then quarterly, when you have those check-ins, check, and maybe you're smarter than the experts. Maybe if you're in a single fund, investigate the other ways to invest in that single fund, so that you don't pay the load that you're paying a financial planner,` who has much wealthier clients to make money off of.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was she a fiduciary? Do you know? Was she a CFP? Was she a fiduciary?

Steph Krikorian:
Yup. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Bobbi Rebell:
Really?

Steph Krikorian:
Yeah. It was a big firm and all. She wasn't doing anything wrong. She did her job.

Bobbi Rebell:
And she informed you. You just didn't hear I guess is what you're saying.

Steph Krikorian:
I misunderstood at the beginning and I was an early client.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're a financial journalist.

Steph Krikorian:
I know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness, Stephanie. What hope is there for everybody else?

Steph Krikorian:
I know, and I wonder. I was an early client of hers, and she was just starting out. I liked her, because she was woman and she was new, and people were giving me a chance, and I gave her a chance. I still don't regret that, but I think, you know, these things aren't transparent. You can't tell how much you pay. In fairness to anybody, it's hard to tell what percentage you're paying in these things. So, I think you have to ask those questions regularly, because things also change, and nobody reads the fine print. So, you have to do your own annual or semi-annual check-in, and now I do. I check very rigorously all my financial statements. I check my bank account to see ... You know, my bank account got hacked. If I didn't check as frequently as I did, I would never have known. So, you-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness.

Steph Krikorian:
It did. Yeah. They had my name. They had my bank account. Must've been off a piece of paper or a bill. They were trying to get in there. They didn't get anything. But, so, you have to always check. Nothing to do with your money should ever be on autopilot, even paying your bills. You know, you can miss a bill, because autopilot is not the way to go, and that's for your financial planning and your daily accounts. You got to keep a tally.

“Walking solves all my problems… It helps creatively, it helps anxiety.. and saves some money. ”

Stephanie's everyday money tip:

Steph Krikorian:
So, you can get really caught up into these things. The average price for any of these sessions is $200. It's very easy to get-

Bobbi Rebell:
For what? I'm sorry. $200 for what?

Steph Krikorian:
Like Reiki, the astrologist, acupuncture. $200 seems to be the going rate of 2019, and buying five packs is very easy to get caught up. I would say this. Try anything, because there's a placebo effect or you find it inspiring. Try anything once. Don't buy the five packs. Just try it and see, and then step away and think of it. Don't get caught up in it. But more importantly, what I found, after all of the sessions, and all of the coaches, and thousands of dollars on a dating coach, I'm still single.

Steph Krikorian:
All the diets I tried and paid for and I think of how much per pound I've spent trying to lose the same 5, 10 pounds. Go for a walk, and then go for another walk, and then walk for more, longer, longer, longer. Walking solves all my problems, and it took me ... I knew that at the beginning, and then I didn't figure it out until the end, but it helps creatively. It helps anxiety. It does the same trick as some of this other stuff does, and it helps you work out, and it's good for your health, and so do that. That's my suggestion. Save some money. Do everything that you want to do, but just once in a while. Don't go on a Zen Bender, like I did, and hit it all hard, all at once, all the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing advice, and it's so true about walking. I get all my best ideas when I'm walking. It's also a great way to socialize, instead of going somewhere and spending money on food that will cost you money and weight.

Steph Krikorian:
What was the scariest thing to write? Oh, a lot of it was scary. It set out to be a book on humor, you know, a humor book on all these crazy things I tried, and then as I wrote it, I'm like thinking, "Well, why did I do that?" I think a couple of things, quickly, how much weight has held me back in life. You know, we all wish we were a little thinner I think. I don't know. I can't speak for everybody.

Bobbi Rebell:
Me.

Steph Krikorian:
I think-

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm raising my hand.

Steph Krikorian:
Exactly. And we all wish that we could drop a few pounds, and I spent a little bit too much time obsessing about that. That was sort of disappointing, and I was surprised I was able to put that on the page, because I really don't like to talk about it. I think being single, you know, I kind of likened the dating at ... I'm 50 now, but this whole book took place in my 40s. It's like shopping at Marshall's or T.J.Maxx. Everything is picked over. It's like seconds right now. So, that was a lot for me to talk about. You know, I had a hard time with that.

Steph Krikorian:
The realization I came to through writing and through discussing it is that after doing the Marie Kondo, I Marie Kondo'd, the living crap out of my house, including my freezer, did the doors open up? I don't know, but I learned to say no to things that didn't bring me joy. I don't think that was her intent in the book. I think that was, as interesting as ... It wasn't a hard to write about that, but it was an interesting learning experience for me that that takeaway kind of came through the process of trying to be funny about folding my socks, rolling my socks a certain way, that all of a sudden I realized, wow, I have a hard time saying no to things. Now, I'm a little better at it.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're all working on that. I think that's a big theme these days is sometimes it's okay to just decline an invitation, even if you don't have a conflict. Just say, "I'm sorry. I can't make it," and don't elaborate.

Steph Krikorian:
Exactly.

“After doing the Marie Kondo..  I learned to say no to things that didn’t bring me joy.. that takeaway kind of came through the process of rolling my socks a certain way that I realized I have a hard time saying no to things.”

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one.:

Buy what you want if you want to be trying things. That's always all good. But when Stephanie talks about buying the five packs, that applies to pretty much any upsell that you get in life. Yes. You do get a better price per item, but you also get more items than you want or need.

Financial grownup tip number two:

If you aren't sure that you understand how someone controlling your money gets paid, keep asking until you are beyond 100% sure. Stephanie is educated and smart and was literally writing about money for her job, but she made assumptions that were not correct.

As a financial grownup, I love that she takes ownership that maybe she didn't understand what she thought she did. It can happen to any of us, if it can happen to Stephanie. Read, and reread, and then, as Stephanie recommends, go do regular check-ins, as she now does, and of course be careful with automation. It is a great tool for regular bills and such, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be checking as well. How are you doing on this front? Do you understand how people or companies that hold your money ore paid? Is free really free if there are maybe commissions or fees in there that you may not know about. Maybe they're disclosed in very tiny print, because if something is truly free, well, then how is the company making money? You need to ask what is going on on the other side.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Stephanie’s website http://stephaniekrikorian.com/

• Stephanie’s book ZenBender

Follow Stephanie!

• Instagram - @stephiekrik

• Facebook - @skrikorian

• Twitter - @stephiekrik

• LinkedIn - @stephaniekrikorian

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

So many of us dream of having our own business and what could be better than doing it with our bestie. But like all relationships- it can get complicated. But when it works, it can be the “it” factor that sets a business apart and on the road to success. Bowery Valuation co-founder Noah Isaacs shares his four key strategies to making a business with your BFF work.

 

4 key things you need to have to nail down to make working with your BFF work:

• Trust

• Complementary skills and expertise

• Shared vision and shared values

• Being in the foxhole

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Noah’s website - www.boweryvaluation.com

Follow Bowery Valuation!

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

YouTube superstar Sarah Wilson documented and inspired others with her journey to being debt free. But after she got to do the debt free scream with Dave Ramsey, she had a whole new set of challenges. Plus Sarah saves Bobbi from buying things she can get for free at the Fincon conference. 

Sarah's money story:

sarah wilson:
five years ago I was working in a newspaper for about $26,000 a year. I had deferred my student loans from college, and there were $33,000 of them. I lost my job. Suddenly I was extremely scared and I swore to myself that whenever I got a new job, I would figure this money thing out. Because being unemployed would've been so much less stressful had I not had $33,000 worth of student debt looming.

sarah wilson:
So, I got a new job making $26,000 a year at a newspaper, in a new state, and I started budgeting. I did everything possible to lower my expenses, increase my income, side hustling. And over the next three years, I actually documented it on YouTube. Every single week, I'd go on and tell people how much debt I had left and what I was doing that week to help fix it. It took me three years and a couple of different jobs where I raised my income a little each time, but I paid off all my debt.

bobbi rebell:
We're so proud of you for that. And also, what you're leaving out with your modesty is that while you were doing this, there was something about you. You have a relatability and an it factor that you also developed a huge following of fans and supporters while doing this. How many YouTube subscribers do you have right now?

sarah wilson:
A little over 56,000.

bobbi rebell:
Wow. And you also have monetized that. So, you actually have this side business of this YouTube channel, which is really inspiring and helping so many people. Then you hit a big milestone a year ago and that changed everything. We're going to start your story, your money story that you're going to share, with a big scream.

sarah wilson:
Yeah, I actually went on the Dave Ramsey show because I was a huge fan of his and I was following his steps to get out of debt. I was able to do my debt free scream live in studio. That was just incredible. It felt like closing and opening a chapter in my life.

bobbi rebell:
It's a big milestone and it brings us to what we want to talk about, which is what happens when you reach your money goal. Because your money goal was to be debt free. That scream was so symbolic. Then what?

sarah wilson:
The first thing I decided was to save up a giant chunk of money. Once again, ala Dave Ramsey. I saved six months worth of living expenses in case I ever lost my job again. I would be okay for a while. Or if I suddenly got into a car accident, or a medical thing, it just gives so much peace to know that I have 10 grand sitting in a interest earning bank that I can use if something terrible happens.

sarah wilson:
And then I also started investing, which is super fun and kind of intimidating for someone who was never taught about money.

bobbi rebell:
How did you start investing?

sarah wilson:
I did a lot of research, and procrastinated way too long. And then I just kind of jumped in. I bought a few index funds. I did a little robo-investing. Just kind of got my feet wet and figured out what was right for me. I'm still exploring that. I'm starting to purchase, actually, some single stocks and do some more exploratory stuff.

sarah wilson:
I funded my... I did more retirement funding for her, so I opened a couple of Roth IRAs. It's a really fun time now because I'm learning about all of that, which was not within my capacity when I was getting out of debt. I couldn't think about future dreams then.

bobbi rebell:
How specifically are you learning? What are your tools and how did you set up these things? I mean, if we get really basic, did you choose a robo-advisor? Did you just walk into a branch of a brokerage firm? I mean, what specifically did you do at that point?

sarah wilson:
Well, I tried working with a planner first and then I didn't like that. They wanted 5% of whatever I invested and I was like, "You know what? No. I can figure this out. I figured out how to get out of debt. I can figure this out on my own."

sarah wilson:
So, I've read every single thing that Bigger Pockets has ever wrote. I've watched so many YouTube channels that my friends are on. As they've learned, they've shared that information as well, which is incredible. And read a couple of books. Erin's Broke Millennial's Guide To Investing, TFD, all of it.

bobbi rebell:
The Financial Diet.

sarah wilson:
Yes.

bobbi rebell:
It's The Financial Diet.

sarah wilson:
Oh, I'm sorry, the Financial Diet. And of course, How To Be a Financial Grownup by someone you might know.

bobbi rebell:
Thank you. I think education is such an important message. As you go through the different phases of being a grownup, your phase one was paying off the debt. Your phase two is educating yourself to grow your money. So, you didn't go with a financial advisor that wanted to take 5%. What did you go with? Are you with a discount brokerage. Are you with a robo-advisor? How did you come to those decisions?

sarah wilson:
Right. I don't advise people who watch my channel to do this, because I think you should do things more simply. But I have, probably, 15 different investment accounts. I have accounts at Vanguard. I have accounts at different robo-advisors. Because I wanted to try everything, and I wanted to see the pros and cons.

bobbi rebell:
So, you're sampling?

sarah wilson:
Yeah, I'm sampling. I will continue to kind of narrow things as I figure out what is right for me. The different fee structures, pros and cons, that kind of thing.

bobbi rebell:
That's interesting. And so-

sarah wilson:
I'm not advising that. People ask me like, "Well, what do you think of Robinhood?" And I'm like, "I don't know. Let me go try it."

bobbi rebell:
Right. Well, one thing that people should... I just want to note. Very often, if you do consolidate your money and you get to a certain level, you can get benefits at these things.

sarah wilson:
Yes.

bobbi rebell:
So, I do advise you even though I don't... But I advise you to consider consolidating into fewer accounts than 15 at some point.

sarah wilson:
Yes.

bobbi rebell:
Because there are often benefits. People do want to reward their better customers. And also, from a question of just tracking your money and having those efficiencies. That might be something to consider.

sarah wilson:
I have a lot of spreadsheets right now.

bobbi rebell:
You mentioned in terms of your bigger picture life planning, what have you been able to do since paying off your debt?

sarah wilson:
The next big thing is going to be buying a multifamily property, and house hacking that into another stream of income. This is something I never dreamed of before. I never thought I'd be able to buy a house on a currently around $50,000 a year. But I have no debt. I live off of about 50 to 60% of my income, invest and save the rest.

bobbi rebell:
And explain what house hacking is. And that's a topic we're going to cover, actually, on a new Financial Grownup episode coming up.

sarah wilson:
Wonderful. House hacking is say I purchased a duplex for $200,000. Because I live in Texas and I'm very lucky. So, I move into one unit and then the other unit I rent out for say a little bit above what my mortgage payment and taxes are for the entire property. Suddenly, I've got essentially someone else, a renter, paying my mortgage for me. I've opened up another line of income and I'm also building equity in this home. In a couple of years, I can be saving the money that I'm saving on rent and do that again. Rent out both sides and maybe move into a different property, or maybe a fourplex.

“I was able to do my debt free scream live in studio. That was just incredible. It felt like closing and opening a chapter in my life.”

Sarah’s money lesson:

sarah wilson:
I think that money mastery is a muscle and that none of us are born with it. And if we had been having this conversation three years ago, it would've been like, "I can't talk about house hacking. I can't talk about investing right now. I can't. I don't have the capacity."

sarah wilson:
But by doing small things in the direction of your goals, whether it's cutting your grocery budget a little bit, or ballsing up and opening your first investing account, even though you're a little intimidated, making those steps is going to get you to the place where you are financially free. You just have to keep moving forward one step at a time. You can't just suddenly wake up and be you.

bobbi rebell:
You make a great point to not be afraid. And even though I do hope that you eventually consolidate your 15 accounts, I do think there's something to be said for just starting. If you open an account at a brokerage firm and you decide, for whatever reason, it's not the right fit, you can move that money to someplace that is a better fit. It doesn't have to be forever, but it should be starting.

“It just gives so much peace to know that I have $10,000 sitting in an interest earning bank that I can use if something terrible happens.”

Sarah's everyday money tip:

bobbi rebell:
I want to transition to talking about your money tip because this is something that I totally did not know. I am significantly older than you, but apparently other people do. My husband made fun of me now for not knowing this. However, I feel that I have to be honest that I did not know to do this all these years, and maybe there are other people out there that haven't.

bobbi rebell:
We were chatting earlier at FinCon and I mentioned that I'd forgotten toothpaste. I had a toothbrush, I forgot the toothpaste. You gave me this amazing advice because I was about to go buy one. Go for it. What's your money tip?

sarah wilson:
I told you to go down to the front desk and ask the concierge, or hospitality, or the front desk clerk, just tell them that you forgot your toothpaste and toothbrush and they will give you one.

bobbi rebell:
For free.

sarah wilson:
Yeah, completely free. Like 50 feet away from the gift shop where they sell a miniature size toothpaste for $4 and a toothbrush for 3. He'll just hand you one.

bobbi rebell:
Not only did they give me toothpaste, they gave me a toothbrush. A full size toothbrush, by the way, Sarah.

sarah wilson:
Yeah. Like an Oral B toothbrush and then like Crest mini toothpaste.

bobbi rebell:
Totally.

sarah wilson:
It's the good stuff.

bobbi rebell:
And apparently they give away other stuff. The concierge.

sarah wilson:
What else do they give away?

bobbi rebell:
My husband has informed me they give away combs. They can give you a razor. All kinds of things that you would go to the gift shop right next door and purchase.

“By doing small things in the direction of your goals, whether it’s cutting your grocery budget a little bit, or opening your first investing account, even though you’re a little intimidated, making those steps is going to get you to the place where you are financially free.”

Bobbi’s Take:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

I never thought about the fact that hotels and tons of other places that we visit, that we see throughout our everyday lives, have lost and founds. They do, guys. It's not just school.

When you're growing up, this can be very important. If you lose something, or misplace it, or maybe if you need a charger, like Sarah did. I know this is very basic, but just like I didn't know that you could just ask for things for free from a hotel front desk, that were for sale right around the corner. Make sure that if you misplace something, or you just maybe need to borrow something, again like a charger, you ask if there is a lost and found. Maybe the thing that you lost is there, or maybe something that you need to borrow is there.

I once left a pair of shoes in a hotel. Don't ask how I lost the shoes. I was wearing other shoes. Just trust me. And I called anyway. They looked in the lost and found. Sure enough, they were there and they mailed the shoes to me. All is not lost. Just ask.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Financial Grownup tip number two. Sarah is all over the place with her investing. That's her thing right now. We're not going to judge. But I do want to caution that although I said in our interview that you don't want your resources too scattered, and that there are often perks that you get if you have larger balances and you consolidate in one place, it's also okay to have your resources in a few places. Maybe not, and I know it's an expression but, put all your eggs in one basket. Put all your eggs in just a few baskets. Not too many, but a few.

Maybe I'm a bit paranoid, but sometimes things do go wrong. There have been companies that have gone out of business, or sometimes something not so legal happens in some places that seem to be pretty above board until they're not. So, it's okay to have your wealth in a few places. Make sure that they have the appropriate protections in place. Whether it's a bank with FDIC insurance. Or SIPC, for example, for a brokerage. And understand what that protects.

For example, SIPC is not going to protect you from a stock's value going down. That's just the market. What it does protect you from is the custody function of a broker. So, if a brokerage firm fails, that's going to give you some limited protection. Take the time to understand the protections for your investments when you choose what entities to park your money in. Whether it's banks or brokerage firms, what have you, there's a lot of startups, make sure that they've been vetted, make sure you understand the protections that are in place. Made a deliberate decision about how many entities you're going to be parking in your money in. Again, 15 seems like a lot. Whatever works for you, though. I think it's your decision. Just make sure it is deliberate, as I said.

Episode Links:

• Sarah’s Website - www.gobudgetgirl.com

• Sarah’s Dave Ramsey Debt Free Scream - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ofhfT4mx7s

Follow Sarah!

• YouTube - @BudgetGirl

• Facebook - @GoBudgetGirl

• Instagram - @GoBudgetGirl

• Twitter - @GoBudgetGirl

• Pinterest - @GoBudgetGirl

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Life gets too busy, and sometimes even financial grownups drop the ball on making sure their bills don’t balloon out of control. Bobbi gets real about how this happened to her, and how she managed to downsize her family’s cable and phone bills. 

We’re going to do a deep dive into why my cable and phone bills were so high, and what I did to stop the madness. And how you can hopefully make the changes that are right for you. 

I do want to remind everyone that I am in New York City- and as I discovered there is a high amount of mandatory taxes added to the bill- that may or may not be true where you are. But you will also see some taxes CAN go away if you know what they are for, and make some choices. 

First- why did it take so long for me to take a deep dive into these bills: a combination of inertia, and family pushback. My kids were insisting they needed very high unlimited data plans- and my family felt strongly they needed to have every single channel on the tv. We don’t go out a lot because of all the things so there was a lot of resistance when I spoke of cutting the cord. After all, as expensive as it is, the amount we would save, is still a lot less than even going out to dinner and a movie for a family of 5- even once. 

But still. 

What prompted it? My 12 year old getting a phone and my 22 year old stepdaughter is out of college with a great job, and  should be transitioning to paying her own bills. 

So- with fear and trepidation, I looked at the bills for my family of 5 and it was bad. 

The monthly wireless bill for my family.. was $347.77

The monthly cable bill- which also includes, internet and a landline, was $309.77 for a total of more than $650. A month. 

And for the record it is not an oversight- I’m not going to name the provider- because this applies really to any bills.. and I don’t want to point fingers. 

So there were three main areas that I was able to cut- and we’ll get into each one. 

The first place was the micro cuts- little- and sometimes not so little things that add up. 

The second place was making choices about what we really needed

The third place was device management- looking at whether we really need to be on the latest and best phones- for which we pay hefty monthly payments. 

So first let’s get into the micro cuts. There are things almost everyone can find and execute simply by looking at their bill and working through it with customer service. 

First: The plans. Most wireless carriers have shifted their business model. It used to be the phones were free-ish as long as you committed- and locked into-  an expensive plan. So we were paying about $60 a line for unlimited- those plans have now dropped to as little as $35 a line, because more people are paying for their phone separately, in some way. They may own it outright, or it may be a separate rental or payment plan,

As I mentioned, my stepdaughter now has a great job- that comes with a phone. But she still wants a phone for personal use. We dropped that phone to the lowest plan at $35 a month because she simply does’t need that much data. My stepson and son are now also on the lowest possible unlimited phone plans. I’m on the second to lowest at $45 a month because I do use a lot of data for business- but that comes with a subscription to Apple Music. That is key. I had been paying $10 a month for Apple music- so that brings my net cost in line with the $35 everyone else is paying. 

And that is an important side note- many phone carriers have deals with Apple Music, Hulu, Spotify etc. Make sure you are taking advantage of them. I was paying $10 a month for something I could get for free through my phone carrier.  So painful. 

Let’s keep going. 

There were a series of $5 and $10 bill reductions I was able to get- I asked if there was a loyalty discount for using both the company’s wireless service and their cable/internet service. Why yes- $10 for each for a $20 savings. Was there a discount for auto pay- because I was on auto pay but didn’t see it on my bill. I was informed that the auto pay discount does not work if you put it on your credit card- which I had done to get points. You must do it as a debit from our account. I switched- and got the discount- from both wireless and from cable/internet. 

Customer service volunteered that there was a military discount of $20 a month. I said that neither my husband and I were military- but apparently we are eligible because both our fathers were military- we just have to add them to the account- they don’t have to have a phone line. So we saved that. 

We were also still paying $5 a month to monitor my now adult stepchildren- so that went away. 

Let’s move on to the second thing we did and that is to make some choices. 

I have been pushing to just cut the cord, and I had been losing. 

But given that the kids basically watch youtube, this was getting silly. 

We not only had 100% every single premium channel, we had infinite other channels that never get watched. And we have Hulu. And Netflix. And Amazon Prime. Seriously. And we are too busy to watch that much TV. 

I made a deal with my husband that if I cut anything he missed, we could bring it back. 

Here’s where it got challenging. I asked the cable representative about the skinny bundles. Can she send me a list of the channels on them. They made this very hard. She just had lists of some channels that were ‘representative’. And when she sent me via email a link to the complete list, it did not work. Keep in mind, this project was moving past the 4 hour mark, complete with hang ups and call backs. 

I also had to push back against some assumptions she was making. She told me of course I did not want to live MTV. Of course I did not want to lose local sports. Actually- I was ok with that. I also was- to her surprise, ok losing every premium channel, thought I did keep HBO for now. But it was a frustrating push. We finally did settle on a skinny package that I think will work- though I never was able to get a specific list of the channels on it. It can always be changed. And by the way, bonus- by losing the local sports channels, we also lost a $9 a month tax that we pay in New York for the privilege of paying for local sports. Not making this up. 

I also asked about our internet speed- and guess what, we could get a better service, for the same price as the older plan we were on.. so we did that. 

Here’s another tricky thing. We had been getting our landline through our internet/cable provider- for $5 a month. But we never use it and only get spam calls on it. I’ve wanted to get rid of it anyway. Once we moved to the cheaper cable plan, the landline cost went up. Also with a ton of taxes, it was now going to be close to $40 a month! So we cut that. No more land line. 

Also - when we switched to the skinny cable bundle we were informed our cable boxes were out of date, so they charged us a one time $50 fee for that change. I was not happy. 

Let’s get to the third thing- and this made me really mad. As I mentioned earlier- the business model has been shifting away from having the phone plans subsidize the devices. We were paying $40 for each fo 3 phones in a monthly payment plan. Total $120 a month. Renting phones.  One phone has one month left and the other 2 devices have 4 months left. When that is over, I plan and hope to get out of the monthly renting game- we’ll be holding on to our devices and so saving $120 a month on that bill. And if the older kids want the latest and greatest phones and choose to rent them- that will become their bill. 

So there you have it- the bills, once we get those phone device payments off will be about half what they were.. and my bet is that my family will not come back to me asking for all those cable channels back. 

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

When Park Place Payments founder and CEO Samantha Ettus was just getting started in her career, family vacations were not in the budget. But she found a way to get a luxury vacation for free, with a little creativity, and a sense of adventure.

Samantha's money story:

Samantha Ettus:
Oh my gosh. You're the first person I've shared this with on air, but this is a little bit embarrassing. That's okay. We go way back, so I'll share it with you. But I was pregnant with my third child, and I had two little ones, Ella and Ruby, who were both under age five at the time. And spring break was coming up. We were in a very small New York City apartment. It was 1400 square feet. And I was freezing and just exhausted, and I said to my husband, "Where are we going to go spring break when the kids are off?" And he was like, "What do you mean? You have a book coming up that you have to work on, and I have this business I just started, and there is no budget for a vacation." I kind of had my own version of like an adult temper tantrum where I was crying and emotional and pregnant, very pregnant, and just beside myself that there was no way to get out of Dodge basically.

Samantha Ettus:
So basically we got in this argument and he said, "Well, if you can figure out how to do it for free, I'll take the time off." I said, "Okay, I'm going to do it." The first thing I did was get online, and this is ridiculous, but I looked up-

Bobbi Rebell:
So this is basically, I can tell, this is basically how Samantha Ettus gets a vacation for free. Okay. Go.

Samantha Ettus:
Exactly. Yes. Thank you for titling it. So basically I quickly got online and just said I was going to enter a contest where you could win a vacation for free. That was a total dead end.

Bobbi Rebell:
Or just enter the lottery, Samantha. Why not.

Samantha Ettus:
Right, exactly. If we're going down that path. Good stats there. And then I went on these home-swapping sites and saw so many exciting homes. Then I thought, well I can [inaudible 00:05:52] to this apartment. I went to the flower store. I basically had completely [inaudible 00:05:57] the apartment and photographed it by the time the day was over, and that night we had 15 to 20 offers of home swaps. There's all these websites where you can just house swap. You have to sign up and do all the things, and you barter, and people will immediately start making offers like, "Do you want my flat in Paris if I can have your flat in New York City?" I mean, that's literally what it was like. And it has to be compatible dates, but you type in your dates. I mean, these sites are really sophisticated at this point.

Samantha Ettus:
So we ended up swapping. By the next week we had our spring break plan. We used frequent flyer miles to go to Newport Beach, California. There was a family there of five. They had a brand new home. I looked it up on Google. I even Googled the owners to make sure they were legit people. She was like a VP at some company, and so I knew she was like a real person and I could find her on LinkedIn. She actually left her car, which was an SUV, at the airport for us, so that when we landed we had her car for the week. The only thing I had to do was feed her fish, which my little kids thought was so exciting, and we had a one week vacation in Newport Beach that was completely free.

Bobbi Rebell:
And she let you drive her car?

Samantha Ettus:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness.

Samantha Ettus:
And by the way, the one thing we did was we had a housekeeper come right before they came to our apartment and right after they left. So for us, you wouldn't have even noticed that they were there. It did not impact our apartment at all. We left their apartment in good shape and they left ours in great shape.

“I think prioritizing vacations as a family is a really good use of your money, because those experiences are more valuable than things.”

Samantha’s money lesson:

Samantha Ettus:
I think it was homeaway.com. But otherwise it was just the number one house-swapping site, whatever that is. You can just Google it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you done more, by the way, since then?

Samantha Ettus:
We haven't done more. And the other lesson I think is-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, why not?

Samantha Ettus:
Because we actually fortunately got into a position where we didn't need to do a house swap for a vacation. We found other ways to pay for the vacation. The other thing is we were in a New York city co-op, and like shh, but you're not really supposed to be house swapping in a New York City co-op. So it was a little bit tricky. But it's many years later. So I think I'm safe to share that with your listeners. But at the end of the day, it all worked out beautifully. I think in general we had a great situation. Their house was not as clean as I would have liked it to be. It wasn't as clean as a hotel would be. There were certain things that weren't perfect, but it was as close to good as you could get. I think the lesson is just you can always figure it out.

Samantha Ettus:
But the other lesson is to always keep that vacation money aside. Like figure out either a side hustle or figure out a way to put away money for a vacation. Because at least in my family, we are a two-income family. My husband and I are both working, and our vacations are so important to us because it's a lot of quality time with our kids. And so especially as our kids are getting older, we care so much about that time. And I think prioritizing vacations as a family is a really good use of your money, because those experiences are more valuable than things.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm so glad you said that. It reminds me of the question that Warren Buffet got from a child recently asking about how to suppress his desire to, for example, go on vacation. I think they were talking about Disney, or Warren Buffet brought up the idea of Disney that you can say you want to save up for a seven-day trip to Disney, but then by the time you've saved up for seven days, your child is not the right age anymore or the age that you wanted to go. So maybe it's better to go for a two or three-day Disney trip. Or in your case, maybe it's better to go on a home swap and go on the vacation rather than just not, rather than waiting for the perfect time when you're completely financially able to afford your dream vacation. You have to live your life.

Samantha Ettus:
And the other thing about that it's the same thing as people saying, well, it's not the right time to have a baby, it's not the right time to fall in love, it's not... The bottom line is life doesn't work that way. And if you fall in love, go for it. If you want to have a kid, you'll figure it out. There's no perfect time for any of this. But I do think that time passes really fast with people you love. And so the more time you can spend having those experiences now it's really worth it. Don't delay happiness.

Bobbi Rebell:
Don't delay happiness. Excellent point.

“Time is more valuable than any other thing you have so use it wisely.”

Samantha's everyday money tip:

Samantha Ettus:
Yes. I think it is critical to think of your time as money. So for example, I mean this is just a little small example, but part of my team yesterday was ordering in lunch because we had a big conference call, and one of my employees who focuses on the budget was like, "Oh my gosh, it's so expensive." And someone said, "Well I'll just go get it." And I was like, "Hold on. Hold on one second. The amount of money we're saving for you to go get it, for you to be gone from the office to go get it for 45 minutes is actually not worth the $8 we're saving."

Samantha Ettus:
And so sometimes we forget that time is money. And that's just a micro example at work. But then at home it's like I will meet so many people who think it's better to not spend $40 on a housekeeper once a week or $50 on housekeeper once a week, instead of doing it themselves. But what could you be doing in that four hours? Could you be working on a side hustle, or that business idea you've always wanted to start? Like there are so many things you could do with that time. Or is it maybe worth it to spend that time doing something alone with your child?

Samantha Ettus:
I think it's pivotal to think of time as money. And pretty much time is more valuable than any other thing you have. So use it wisely.

Bobbi’s Take:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Samantha talks about the cost of being out of the workforce, but with so many entrepreneurial ventures these days, how that is defined is changing. So you may work for yourself and not be in a traditional job and think you are good to go. And you are good to go to an extent, but you need to make sure that if you are not working for a corporation that gives you benefits, you are also paying yourself the benefits that you would have had. And specifically I want to focus on retirement savings. Many full-time jobs have some kind of plan, often a 401k with a match. If you do something yourself, for example, for the flexibility, something like Park Place Payments, make sure you calculate more than just your salary when you are figuring out how much you are really making, and make sure you set up a retirement plan for yourself and you fund it consistently.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Go on short vacations if you are on a budget. My family wanted to go to Iceland. It is crazy expensive. We went for four days. We had an amazing time. And if you can pay for part of it, by the way, with points and so on, do it. Don't save it all up for the most amazing round-the-world trip when you get old. Just use it now. Don't save it for when the time is perfect. Do it. I'm looking at my 12-year-old and wondering how he is 12 years old, and I am so happy that we have gone on the trips that we've gone on, and my only regret really is that we haven't done more adventures as a family traveling.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Samantha’s website - www.samanthaettus.com/

Park Place Payments Website - www.ParkPlacePayments.com

• To access your path to financial freedom, join the family of Account Executives- Receive $100 off of Park Place Academy when you enter code: financialgrownup

Follow Samantha!

• Instagram - @SamanthaEttus

• Facebook - @SamanthaEttus

• Twitter - @SamanthaEttus

• LinkedIn - @SamanthaEttus

Follow Park Place Payments!

• Instagram - @parkplacepayments

• Facebook - @parkplacepayments

• Twitter - @parkplacepower

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Find out the biggest money mistakes even financial grownups are making, and how to avoid them with Josh Jalinski, aka the Financial Quarterback and author of the new book “Retirement Reality Check: How to Spend your Money and Still Leave an Amazing Legacy”

The biggest money mistakes financial grownups are making and how to avoid them:

• Need to be more tax smart

• Risk averse

• Holistic plan

• Not in the market enough

• Insurance

Episode Links:

• Josh’s website - www.jalinski.org

• Josh’s book Retirement Reality Check

Follow Josh!

• Instagram - @thefinancialquarterback

• Twitter - @yourfinancialqb

• Facebook - @The FinancialQuarterback

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Former Facebook exec. Paul Ollinger left his job with a pile of money and no plans. But retirement wasn’t all that and he decided to use his financial freedom to pivot to his true love, making people smile as a standup comedian and host of the podcast "Crazy Money". 

“The experience of being retired early was far far less satisfying than I ever anticipated that it would be.”

Paul's money story:

Yeah, I did quit at 42 and I left Facebook without a plan. I just thought, "Hey, I have enough money. I don't want to work and be stressed out all the time. I don't want to be away from my family. I want to be close to my mom who's sick," and I bailed on work and I didn't have a plan, so I thought, "Well, I'll just go be kind of rich for a while." After you take a few trips after you start getting back in shape and work on your golf handicap, one day I came home after dropping my kids at school and I turned on my computer and there was nothing there. It was like, you have no mail. I was like, huh. I was like, I missed work. I missed having a goal. I missed my friends. I missed my colleagues. I missed the challenge of being a part of a team and I was like, well, what now? The experience of being retired early was far, far less satisfying than I ever anticipated that it would be.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because we talk a lot now, there's this growing enthusiasm for this acronym FIRE, as I mentioned, Financial Independence Retire Early. You have some very strong opinions about that.

Paul Ollinger:
Yeah, I think FI is great, financial independence. I think it's hugely neglected in our country and that we should all work very, very hard to buy ourselves back from the bank and to give ourselves a buffer so that we have the independence to leave a job if it's unhealthy for us, but I think the fascination, the fetishizing of RE, retire early, is hugely misdirected. You don't want to not work. You want to work on your terms and if that's how you interpret RE, then we're on the same page. but you want to be able to do work that's sustainable, that feeds your soul, and that is done in a way that leaves time in your life for things like family and staying healthy. The goal of retiring early and having nothing to do, that's not something any of us should aspire to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so back to the blank computer screen. You're sitting there, you got no mail, you got nowhere to go. What happens next?

Paul Ollinger:
Well, I had done comedy before I worked at Facebook. I worked at Yahoo. I paid off my student loans and I went and I did comedy for two years before I went to Facebook. Then I got engaged and I just happened to end up getting a job selling advertising in Facebook, but when I left Facebook, I didn't have a plan. I was just walking away from something; I wasn't walking toward anything. After a year and a half, two years, of kind of goofing off and not finding what I wanted to do, I sucked it up and I decided I'm going to write every day, I'm going to get back in the open mics, I'm going to figure out how to reinvent myself as a stand-up comedian at, I guess it was 45 or 46 years old by that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. What was the first thing you did? What was the conversation like with your family because you are now married and you now have children? If you're comfortable, tell us. You're welcome to tell us all your financial details, but give us some context for what this would involve financially.

Paul Ollinger:
On my very first date with my wife 14 years ago, I told her that I was going to quit my job and be a stand-up comedian and she was in from day one. You might also say she was warned on day one, so we've gone through periods of me doing very, very well in the corporate world and me making very little money as an artist. Four and a half, five years ago, when I really started back after Facebook, I said, "I'm going to commit to doing this, to getting after being a full-time comedian." She was fully onboard. Now, full disclosure, working at Facebook as one of the first 250 employees and getting stock options provided us with a size-able nest egg from which we have enough money to live indefinitely if we don't overspend. That certainly puts salve on the wounds of financial... the questions around finances if you don't have to make a living to feed your kids and pay your mortgage,

Bobbi Rebell:
What is it that you think people misunderstand then about the whole FIRE concept?

Paul Ollinger:
What people don't understand is how much they get from work that they're not computing on the positive side of the ledger. They think about work, they think about, okay, I get a paycheck and then it comes with all these costs of stress and hours and travel, but they're not saying, oh, what I get from work isn't just a paycheck. It's camaraderie, it's an identity, it's respect from colleagues, it's the satisfaction I get from learning and solving problems. All that stuff is really, really important. I mean, look at Maslow's Hierarchy. Belongingness is something that takes us one step above where we would be without work.

“I missed work. I missed having a goal. I missed my friends. I missed my colleagues. I missed the challenge of being part of a team.”

Paul’s money lesson:

Find work that you want to do for as long as you can. Find work that doesn't just pay the most, but that you want to do for as long a period as you can. If you have a dream, by the way, it's a lot easier to chase if you've paid your bills first. Putting a little nest egg away before you chase your dream is a far safer way to do it than just saying screw this when you're 32 and then when you're 55 not having anything to show financially for your efforts of the previous two decades.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you think there is a danger that some of the young retirees are putting themselves in by, especially, we're recording this at a time when the stock market is extremely volatile, so people may have historic calculations in their savings, but they may not necessarily play out as they expect?

Paul Ollinger:
Well, I think there's two things there absolutely. One is, if you think having a million dollars when you're 32 in the market is going to last you forever, then you haven't lived through too many economic cycles and that million dollars can easily be $600,000 after a couple of bad quarters, so there's that. The second thing is that it's human nature that our wants continue to expand and it's not that we can't manage that as people, and I think we should be very aware of how we spend our money so that we're making sure we're spending it on what we value and provides us with more happiness, but however much you have and think you can live on when you're 32, it's not going to be the same number when you're 42 as perhaps your family expands or your parents get sick. There's all kinds of stuff that's going to happen in life that million bucks that could turn into $600,000 probably won't be able to pay for.

“If you have a dream, it is a lot easier to chase if you have paid your bills first.”

Paul's everyday money tip:

Paul Ollinger:
Be on the same page as your spouse. As difficult as it may be, go sit down and talk about where you're spending your money with your partner because there's nothing more expensive than not being on the same page with the person who shares, not just your life and your household, but the money that you all spend together.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and I'm just going to add, have that conversation ASAP if you're not already and don't be afraid to actually bring documents and go over what you're actually spending. Right?

Paul Ollinger:
Well, that's the first part is to find out where it's actually going and to say, "Hey, do you know that we're actually spending X on this? Do you feel like, are you getting what you want out of it? Because it doesn't feel like that's bringing us as much happiness as the top line number would indicate it should be."

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup tips:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

My favorite line of Paul's in this entire episode was quote, "If you have a dream, it is easier to chase it if you have your bills paid." The truth is that is not so easy, but it is often the harsh truth. We get so caught up in the romance of going for it that we forget the role of financial stability in getting to our goals. No one wants a comedian who is stressed out about his bills, although actually in Paul's case, that could probably work into his act, but you get what I'm saying here.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

After our interview, I asked Paul how we could score discount or even free comedy tickets. He gave me the inside scoop. He said a lot of the shows don't actually sell out and the clubs make a lot of their money on the drinks and then the other stuff that you buy there, like souvenirs, so they really want to fill those seats and they often do this by sending out last minute email blasts offering free, free, free seats. You need to find out where the comedy shows are in your area or where you're going to visit. Get on those email lists, follow them on social media, so you can be on the list or get the social media tweets or posts and find out when those free tickets are happening.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Paul’s website - www.PaulOllinger.com/

• Paul’s podcast Crazy Money
  
  
  
  

Follow Paul!

• Instagram - Paul_Ollinger

• Facebook - @PaulOllinger

• Twitter - @Paul_Ollinger

• LinkedIn - @PaulOllinger

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

There are lots of money challenges with living abroad starting with just how do you even manage your money? Do you need to open a foreign bank account? Tess Wicks joins Bobbi from Italy to co-host this Financial Grownup Guide

3 Money Tips for Living Abroad

• Depending on your plans and the country you are traveling to, make sure you are legally allowed to be there

• Why it's so important to know what the financial requirements are to move to another country

• Why it's not only important to understand the currency conversion, but also to also find a credit card that has zero transaction fees

Episode Links:

• Tess’ website - Wander Wealthy

• Day in the life with Tess on Instagram

• This is a great piece on value investing from one of my favorite websites Investopedia!

• Tess' Invested program- The Invested Program

Follow Tess!

• Instagram

• LinkedIn

• Twitter

• Facebook

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Happy Go Money author Melissa Leong shares the story of how her teen novels were rejected by mainstream publishers, but went on to sell over 70,000 copies after she decided to take control of her own career. Plus everyday social media tips to be happier no matter how much money you have or don’t have.

“You can’t wait around to make the perfect amount of money. You can’t wait around for your boss to give you that raise for you to be happy.”

Melissa’s Money Story:

I tried to shop this around. It's a vampire series, during the time ... Well, it was the tail end of Twilight, so no publisher wanted another vampire book. So I got a lot of no’s, in which case I was faced with this decision of, what is my dream worth? I want to get this done, so what am I willing to invest in myself? So I created a budget of how much I would spend on, pay a designer to create a cover, to publish it myself, to put it out into the world.

I self-published it, and yes, it turned out, in more ways than one, to be a great, great experience, something that I consider a success in my life. Something that I could check off my bucket list. And I still get the occasional check in the mail, even though I don't do all that much work publicizing it. I did make my money back and then some, and it was basically a great gift that I could give to myself, just in terms of learning that I could build a brand, make money for myself outside of a salary, and take those tools and make more money in another career.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about the journey. Did you write it first, and then you went to different publishers? How did it actually work? And how did the economics change between, if you had gotten a deal with a traditional publisher versus your own situation where you were self-publishing? What did that actually involve from a business and an economic standpoint, and a marketing standpoint?

Melissa Leong:
I think people don't realize that when you go and you create any product, you are entering into a business. You're your own business. You're your own publisher. I learned so much about being my own marketing department, my own publishing, and quality control, and PR, and that all requires resources, time and money. So yeah, I didn't have a publisher to push my books, but because I was doing everything myself, I had full control, and I had a huge percentage of the cut of sales. A traditional publisher might give you 7% off of the book selling price, but say you publish through Amazon, you get 70%, depending on what you price the book at. That was really rewarding.

Bobbi Rebell:
I realize we were talking about PR for the book. We didn't say what the book title was, and where people can get it. We should say that, right?

Melissa Leong:
Yes. It's still on Amazon. The first book is called What Kills Me, and the second is I Am Forever. It's a teen adventure novel. It's based on a vampire story.

“Mute the people on social media who make you feel bad about yourself”

Melissa’s Money Lesson:

The same lesson that I have when it comes to happiness. I think we sit around waiting for external factors to fulfill us, and that's not how life will serve you best. You can't wait around to make the perfect amount of money. You can't wait around for your boss to give you that raise, for you to be happy. Happiness is for you to fulfill for yourself. It's the same thing with any of your goals or your dreams. They all seem lofty, and they all seem huge in the beginning, but you have to take that first step. You turn on the heat, and if you turn off the heat before the water boils, the water will never boil. You just have to keep going. You break everything down into some sort of small, bite-sized goal, like writing a 60,000-word book in six months. That was my goal, and I thought, "That is ridiculous. How am I going to do that?"

Well, I broke it down to the smallest thing. Every single day, five days a week, I have to write 500 words. There you go. If, by the end of the day, I haven't written 500 words of something for this novel, then I didn't feel good. I also had a partner who I could check in with, and say, "I met my goal today. Yay. Somebody keep me accountable." It was something very tangible to do in a very short period of time.

“I was faced with this decision. What is my dream worth? I want to get this done and so what am I willing to invest in myself”

Melissa’s Money Tip:

There is a study that shows that if you live beside somebody who's won the lottery, you are more apt to go bankrupt, because you're also spending on tangible, visible assets, even though you have not won any money. It is something that we beat ourselves up for, but it's something that you can control. You can put a tracker on your phone to see how much time you spend on social media. You can mute the people on social media who make you feel kind of jealous, who make you feel bad about yourself, who don't share your values. You can fill your feed with things that are uplifting, things that inspire you.

If you find yourself comparing yourself to other people, then choose what specific attributes that they have, that you admire. Don't admire somebody because they're rich. Admire them because they have some sort of tenacity, or some sort of perseverance quality that you think that you would like more of in your own life.

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Inventory your stuff. We're not saying to do a Kon-Mari, reference to Marie Kondo, who is known for Tidying Up. Just know what you own, so you can make a decision about whether you want to own more. At least know what you have, so you don't make buying mistakes. So, for example, you don't buy something that you already have five of, you just didn't know where they were. And let's be honest, we've all done that. Make sure you know where your stuff is, so it's there for you when you need it.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Again from Melissa's book, Happy Go Money: Delete your credit card info from the browser on your computer, your phone, iPad, whatever you use to shop, so you have to manually enter it each time you want to buy something. What I love about this advice is that it's not about buying something, whether you need it or just want it. That's okay. It is about creating a speed bump so you have to slow down and think about the decision, and make it a thoughtful one, and it's okay to buy things.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Melissa's book Happy Go Money

• Melissa’s website - www.MelissaLeong.com

Follow Melissa!

• Instagram - @LisLeong

• LinkedIn - @MelissaWLeong

• Twitter - @LisLeong

• Facebook - @Melissa.W.Leong

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Happy Go Money author Melissa Leong shares the story of how her teen novels were rejected by mainstream publishers, but went on to sell over 70,000 copies after she decided to take control of her own career. Plus everyday social media tips to be happier no matter how much money you have or don’t have. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn the things you can do to create your happiness. #Happiness #Author

Big cities have a lot to offer- but can be expensive. Co-host Grant Sabatier, creator of Millennnial Money and author of the new book “Financial Freedom. A Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need” recently moved to New York City despite the costs. He shares his three biggest tips to making it work for your financial grownup money goals, and still live life to the fullest.



Here are 3 tips for expensive city living

• How you can plan for the big fixed expenses

• Why you should balance the convenience of prepped vs non-prepped items

• The importance of getting out of the city

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Grant's book - Financial Freedom: A Proven Path to All the Money You Will Ever Need

• Check out the book trailer here

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Cate Luzio had no problem getting her boss to agree to give her a raise, but was caught off guard when asked how much she wanted. Cate shares exactly how she was able to come back with her number in just 24 hours, and how we can all get paid as much as possible. 

Cate's money story:

So I spent many years in corporate investment banking, but a large stint of it at JP Morgan. I was living in London, I was already at a managing director level, I was managing a big business within the corporate bank. I was, as women do, getting ready to prepare for that year end discussion and to ask for a raise. I go into my boss's office who was amazing and as I'm starting to already defend my accomplishments and list them out within 30 seconds of me speaking, he says, "Cate stop talking." I thought, "Oh, God, what did I do wrong?".

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, I would be worried.

Cate Luzio:
I thought he was going to say, "You're out.".

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no.

Cate Luzio:
And then he said, "What's your number?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Meaning?

Cate Luzio:
Meaning what's the number?

Bobbi Rebell:
How much do you want?

Cate Luzio:
Exactly. Because, one, he didn't have time to waste, and I will tell you that. And two, he was like, "Let's get to the point. You're going to come in here and give me all your accomplishments, but I'm your manager, I know your accomplishments, I know what you've done for the business. So tell me how much more money you want to make." And I had never even thought of the number, which is embarrassing to one extent and then proves a point to the other around that women often are ready to just talk about, list out what they've done and how they've made a value to the company versus going in and asking for that number and then being prepared to defend why they've asked for that. And so, he said, "I give you 24 hours and you come back to me with a number.".

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, no pressure. So, what do you do with that 24 hours?

Cate Luzio:
I knew that my team, more broadly the leadership team, were all a bunch of men, and that was fine, they were great, but I couldn't ask them. I had come from a different business about a year prior to that within JP Morgan, but I knew I should be making a big jump. So, what did I do? I called a bunch of my guy friends at other banks. I just said, "Here's the situation, I just need to know what you make."

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, let me just ask you. Did you just randomly pick up the actual, I hate to say this, the actual phone, meaning you didn't text them, you didn't email them.

Cate Luzio:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you were picking up the phone.

Cate Luzio:
Picked up the phone.

Bobbi Rebell:
And putting them on the spot.

Cate Luzio:
Putting them on the spot. And I had done that throughout my career. I think women don't realize this, and I think it's a lot in the banking sector, that when you get your bonus everyone's pounding their chest, like, "This is what I got." And guys do. They tell each other what they make. So they benchmark early on. And I had been doing that early on in my career. And then as I got more senior it was like, "Oh, well I'm getting more jobs and I'm getting these big promotions. This is great." And I had forgotten about I should be getting paid for what I do.

And so that's what I did. I spent that night calling and talking. And I remember I met with one of the guys that I knew at a big bank competitor, and hashing it out. And walked in the next day with the number.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me just stop you there. What was your take on the numbers they were getting? What did you learn just from those numbers about where you are relative to them?

Cate Luzio:
Oh, much lower. I mean considerable amount lower. And again, remember, I think it didn't have to do with the company not wanting to pay me. It was commensurate with I had been at the firm for a while. You don't normally get huge bumps and raises unless you come from another firm. If you've made a jump that normally happens with your bonus or your variable compensation. So that was not an expectation that someone would walk in and get a very large raise. I knew that from the hundreds of people that I had managed.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you hadn't asked.

Cate Luzio:
And I had never asked. A part of me thinks, "Oh, I should've asked." And then part of me thinks, "I'd only been in that particular role for less than a year. So, was it warranted?" Yes, because not only of my performance, but my potential to continue to perform in that role, and bigger roles. And so, we hear it a lot, men are promoted on potential, women are promoted on performance. This wasn't even about promotion. This was about getting a fair compensation.

And so, when I did that benchmarking and talking to my male peers, I realized I was making a lot less. And so the next day I went in and he said, "Do you have your number?" I said, "Yeah, this is my number." He said, "It's not unreasonable. I don't know what we can do, but it's not unreasonable." To which I walked out thinking that's a huge win itself that I didn't come in and him say that's absolutely never going to happen, which, by the way, that happens quite a bit.

And so, three months later when you actually get your comp information and your bonus, they hand you a paper, and that has everything written. And so, I have no poker face. And so I immediately pull up the paper in front of my face, because I don't want him to see if I'm crying or if I'm smiling. Because if it was going to be a bad number I was going to be really upset. And the number was not the number that I asked for, it was even more.

So, as I'm putting the paper down, I'm smiling. What was even better was my boss was smiling even bigger than I was. And his exact words were, "You perform for us, we perform for you." He said, "This is probably never going to happen again in your career unless you leave and go to another firm, but you've demonstrated not only performance but potential and we value that."

“Don’t just go into any or these discussions with a list of your accomplishments. Be prepared first to demonstrate why you are valuable to the company. And also know your worth. Have that number going in.”

Cate’s money lesson:

So the lesson is don't just go into any of these discussions with a list of your accomplishments. Be prepared first to demonstrate why you are valuable to the company. And also know your worth. Right? So already have that number going in, because the worst thing that can happen is, one, they quiz you on why you should get that money or that promotion. Then you're ready, you've got your accomplishments, you've got what you've done for the business, you've got how you've demonstrated your value.

Cate Luzio:
But also what's the worst that can happen? They say no. And then you decide whether you can live with that no, you continue to fight for that compensation or that role or that promotion, or you go elsewhere.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever gotten a no, and how did you deal with it if you did?

Cate Luzio:
Oh, absolutely gotten a no. Listen, companies are under lots of constraints, they're under huge budgetary issues, so there are a lot of nos. And I've had to give a lot of nos to people too. I think the way I combated that or came back from that was, "Is this still the firm that I want to work for? Is their rationale correct? Do I get that? Do I look at the overall earnings of the company and where I fit into that?".

Cate Luzio:
So, when you work for a large publicly traded company that's in the Fortune 150, they have a lot of mouths to feed. But you still, at the end of the day, have to feel comfortable with the answer that they give. And, for me, I never left a company because they didn't pay me. So I looked at where else there were value they were adding in my life and my career. Was there a career path? Were they providing opportunities? And that was big for me around the delivering of those other opportunities, but also investing in me as an employee, making me a better asset to them.

Bobbi Rebell:
I like that. Because sometimes people might work for, let's say, a startup or something and there just isn't the money.

Cate Luzio:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you have to look at other things.

Cate Luzio:
You have to look at other things and what drives you. If money is the only thing that drives you, then that's not going to be the place. But there's the role, there's are you managing a team? Are you part of other projects within the organization? Are you moving up quickly, as you mentioned, like in a startup or even in intrepreneurial environment within a big company where it's not just about the compensation? I do firmly believe you have to be fairly compensated, but I think there's a lot of factors that play into that.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true. Now you are well compensated. I should say, when you worked for other people you were well com... Now you work for yourself. When you worked for other people you were certainly well compensated. You could certainly do the shopping that you wanted to do and have the wardrobe that you want to have. But just because you have the money doesn't mean you should spend it all on clothing. And that brings us to a everyday money tip from you. Because this is really interesting. We talk a lot about saving money because you have to or to reach certain goals. Sometimes you're saving money because maybe spending it just doesn't make sense.

“I decided to self fund. I wanted to look at my members of the community of Luminary as my investors, versus maximizing value for an investor.”

Cate's everyday money tip:

As someone who did make quite a bit of money, and I actually reinvested a lot of that money into my company because I self funded, one of the things I knew is that my disposable income I needed to make it very small, because I was investing it into the company. And I was a big shopper. I needed retail therapy. So I actually now rent most of my clothes. I do it mostly with Rent the Runway, but it's exciting to see all of these other new players out there because it gives you so much more variety and diversity of your clothes. And for me it ends up really saving a lot of money for me. Also, I get the thrill of shopping online or even in person because they have stores, but without the guilt of spending all that money and then wasting it because I wear those clothes one time and then never wear them again.

Bobbi Rebell:
I second that. I actually also use Rent the Runway, and I find that to be very true. And I also think you can wear things. Sometimes fashions can be a little bit silly, like we had weird sleeves happening a year ago. And you can try that and you don't have to own that because we know some things are just not going to have staying power. Right?

Cate Luzio:
Absolutely. And some things you may think one day they flatter you and the next they don't. So, why keep it in your closet?

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Cate was able to get the intel on her number in just 24 hours, because she had spent years building strong relationships. To do a quick turnaround, you need to have everything in place, and to do that you need to be playing the long game when it comes to those relationships.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

One of my favorite parts of this interview is when Cate got really candid talking about how she deals with nos. First of all, if Cate Luzio is getting no’s, we can all feel a lot better about our setbacks. But she never talks about storming out or being confrontational. Instead, it's about taking a big picture look and being tuned in to why that no happened. It could be you and your performance, and if so, you need to be self-aware enough to own that and to take action.

Sometimes we all have so much ra-ra, go for it in our lives that we're not really that honest when maybe we aren't deserving of that. I'm not saying that's true all that often, but it could sometimes be true. And we need to be realistic about whether the assessment of us might have some good points. But it can also be things that are out of your control, having to do with where the business is financially. That's not really on you, but it's still your reality. Keep your cool, don't make brash emotional decisions.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Cate’s website - https://www.luminary-nyc.com/

• Cate’s Podcast - Come Sit At Our Table

Follow Cate!

• Instagram - @BeALuminary

• Facebook - @BeALuminary

• Twitter - @BeALuminary

• LinkedIn - @BeALuminary

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

The secret to getting the most free money in the form of scholarships is in knowing the systems to use and the shortest, most efficient path to success. Jocelyn Paonita Pearson, creator of the Scholarship System joins Bobbi to talk specific strategies to get the most dollars to pay for your education or that of those you care about, without wasting time on dead ends.

Here are 3 tips for scholarship success

• Dedicate a certain day to work on scholarships

• Efficiency - apply all the way through the college and tweak your story that is working

• Don't make excuses - there is money out there for for all gpa's and low income - Still apply - read criteria

Episode Links:

• Free webinar

• Facebook

• The Scholarship System

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Jason Wolfe sold several companies for huge profits, including  GiftCards.com for 120 million dollars. The gifting entrepreneur grew up as an orphan at the Milton Hershey School when his mentally ill mother could not care for him. The lessons learned at the school focused on not just a strong work ethic and structure, but also specific lessons on building businesses with a spirit of generosity. 

“As you grow your business.. relationships and networking become so so important to make you successful.”

Jason's money story

I grew up very poor, on welfare. Mother had some mental issues. My dad took off. We thought he was dead. So I grew up in a place I'm not sure how many of your listeners know. There's a person named Milton Hershey, and Milton Hershey was the man who started the Hershey Chocolate Company. He started an orphanage in 1909 and he had it in his heart, him and his wife, to give back to needy children. So in 1915 or somewhere thereabouts, Catherine, his wife passes away. Instead of remarrying, instead of going off and spending a bunch of money, he spent more time with boys in the orphanage and decided to give his fortune to the Milton Hershey School, which is owned by the trust. And in 1945 left $84 million to the trust. Today it's worth $13 billion. I mean I grew up there.

Bobbi Rebell:
So your mother, under these unfortunate circumstances, sent you to live in the orphanage?

Jason Wolfe:
Yes, Yes she did.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what age were you?

Jason Wolfe:
I was 10 years old. And I lived in sort of an agricultural environment with 16 boys. So I lived in a house and we milked cows and baled hay and straw and had that kind of life with two house parents and 16 brothers.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Tell me about the lessons that you learned at the school as a young boy because that became instrumental in all of your success as an entrepreneur.

Jason Wolfe:
Well, I learned hard work obviously. Before going to Milton Hershey School, my mother being, you know, mentally disabled and not being able to take care of us, I was able to stay up until two o'clock in the morning wandering around the streets. It wasn't a hard town I lived in, but it was just one of those things. I didn't have structure or work ethic or anything like that. When I got to Milton Hershey School, I was not able to wander the streets til midnight or two o'clock. I had to get up at five o'clock in the morning, milk cows, get back from school, play sports, all the things that gave me structure in my life and hard work and taught me how to be more responsible.

Jason Wolfe:
What I also learned is I had something that I didn't realize I had until later in life, which is something that people are starting to measure now. It's not IQ and it's not how good looking you are, how good of an athlete you are, it's really that inside grit that you have. If you have grit, fortitude, I learned that that was something that I did have and I learned how to take that grit and form it into what it turned out to be a successful business career.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were they talking to you in the school about how you would support yourself as you grew up? Because that's something universally many parents struggle with. How to teach their children to be earnings-focused and in your case, entrepreneurial-focused. I mean where did that come from in the school environment?

Jason Wolfe:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's incredible.

Jason Wolfe:
Yeah, so they didn't teach us at that time, again, this is in the 1980s, okay. So today the school is different. They have programs to help kids that go through high school to graduate to transition to the real world. Back when I was in that school, they didn't have that kind of thing. So I graduated from that school with a suitcase of clothes and a a hundred dollar check, of which I couldn't cash cause I had no bank account. I learned real quick what a check casher was actually, and I got $67 and 50 cents instead of the $100.

Jason Wolfe:
No I went off and I actually built my own life. I wasn't given tools to figure out how to do it. I did it on my own and I went through some major spinal surgery and was recovering and it was 1995. I taught myself how to write software. I created the first coupon site in 1995, because I bought a book from CompUSA at the time. I'm not even sure how I bought that book to tell you the truth. I didn't have any money. I was living out of my car. I honestly was living out of my car.

Bobbi Rebell:
You were living out of your car?

Jason Wolfe:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
For how long? And how did that happen?

Jason Wolfe:
It happened because I had a couple major surgeries, and I was living with somebody and I couldn't do what I used to be able to do. I was laid up. I was just not the same person. I became depressed after two major spinal surgeries. I just wasn't the same person, so she and I broke up. I had nowhere to go, of course. I grew up in the Hershey School. It's not like I had a family to go to, so I just basically lived in my car, and as I was living in my car, a friend of mine allowed me to use part of his office to put my computer, of which ... that's when I was learning how to build an internet business, and so I went from $4,000 that year in revenue to $35,000 the year after, to 1998 $180,000. '99 a million dollars. I raised a half a million dollars in venture capital in '99, and then I sold it right before the bubble burst in 2000 for $22 million.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. What was the tipping point that got you mentally from living in a car to what you just talked about to that progression of incremental progress that then led to where you are today?

Jason Wolfe:
You know, Bobbi, I'm not sure, like I was saying a little earlier, I think some people have what is internally fortitude or grit, and you know it's something that we really haven't measured in our country. You know, when kids are growing up, we don't measure how much grit does this kid have or whatever else. It's something that I had and there was a lot of it, so I was able to pull through things, and then I also have faith in God. And so I believe with my faith and my grit, I was able to pull through some of the things I think a lot of people would not be able to pull through. That's for sure.

Jason’s money lesson

You find a street to go pull your car down that you can sleep in, so nobody will ... you know, the police won't come and get you. You know what I've learned through this is not only about grit and about fortitude, but I also learned the lesson of giving, honestly. I mean, look at Milton Hershey who left his entire fortune to help thousands of children. If it wasn't for Milton Hershey School, not only would I be homeless, I probably would have been in jail or much worse, probably dead. So I look at the lesson to be learned here and probably one of the subconscious reasons why I'm in the gifting business is about giving. It's about giving back and it's about gifting to other people because you can create joy with those people and you can create changes in people's lives. And although I was homeless, and living out of my car, I had a foundation that I learned from Milton Hershey that has proven to be something that was like a cornerstone of my life.

Bobbi Rebell:
So are there specific things that you think you did that made the difference? Clearly mindset, the things that you were talking about, is very important. Are there specific things that you did? It sounds like you had relationships with people that were still strong that you were able to leverage.

Jason Wolfe:
What I learned as I started to grow that business was to find good people that wanted to help with the cause I was doing. I found my first employee. I paid her $50 a month. But she was willing to see in me something that nobody else was seeing. And then I found another person to work for me, and she saw something in me too and she was encouraging me. And so although it wasn't like these grandiose business connections, it was connections with real people that were able to help me pull myself out of that sort of depression and living out of the car and believing in myself. So as I became more successful in business, I started to realize that those networks and those relationships, as you start thinking about them, as you grow your business beyond 50 people or a 100 people or 200 people, that relationships and networking become so, so important to make you successful. Having the right people on the bus in the right seats, but also connecting with people as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a way that you find those people?

Jason Wolfe:
Yeah, so in our hiring process, we have a very thorough deep hiring process. We're looking for specific people that are able to join our company with our specific culture that we have. 25 years of success building four companies and selling them profitably. We've been able to do it because the people that joined this company, because we go through a lot of effort to find the right people, but also the networking. I mean, so I'm on the Technology Council board. I try to attend social events. I try to connect with people. I try to connect other people with people and I try to give. And the more that you give, like we give to the tech council, I spend time helping people to grow, back in return comes much to me because of that. And I think as we can think of that, and then the listeners can think about the concept of giving as a financial resource to get back something for yourself. Not that you're doing it intentionally to get something, but it's just the way the universe works.

“When people give it .. makes them feel better, and actually uplifts them more than the person who receives the gift themselves”

Jason's everyday money tip

So I mean, I was looking into this and thinking about giving, and I was thinking about why does it make a difference? And it does. So for every act of giving, you could change the world for good.

I mean it's not like you're changing the world for bad. You're helping helping something. And it's been shown, I guess, and there's some studies, Harvard Business School did a study and found that when people give, it basically makes them feel better and actually uplifts them more than the person that receives the gift themselves.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's almost ... I hate to say it's almost like the endorphins you get from exercising. I mean, giving to people really will make your life richer, not just theirs.

Jason Wolfe:
Absolutely. And there are studies about it and there's also some studies about ... I was reading about a study in the University of California about how gifting can become contagious, and it inspires observers to feel like they have to be generous, which then it turns them to give more. So it's a contagious thing too. So not only giving makes you happy, it's contagious. And lastly, here's the cooler thing. Here's a real cool thing. Giving actually makes us healthier. So there was a study I was researching also at the University of California Berkeley, found that older people that volunteer, two or more organizations, are 44% less likely to die than their non-volunteers. So it makes us healthier too.

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial Grownup Tip Number One:

Know the commission before any financial transaction and absolutely try to minimize or eliminate it. Jason kind of matter of factly gave the example of getting just $67 back after cashing a $100 check when he was young. I don't know how taking such a big percentage was even legal or the full circumstances behind that, but it is just not right. As an example in my life, my son and I recently went to deposit coins that he had saved. We found out that if you take those coins to one of those coin counting machines that make it, oh so easy, they count it for you, no muss, no fuss, except they take a commission of as much as almost 12% in some cases.


We ended up rolling the coins ourselves and bringing it to our bank's local branch, and we were able to keep all of the money. So it would have been $88. We kept $100 out of every hundred.

Financial Grownup Tip Number Two:

Take a step back and think about Jason's comments about generosity and how he believes that has driven his business goals, his strategy and yes, his success. Let's consider what we can do to support others often at no real cost to ourselves. Jason didn't focus on it, but the fact that his friend supported his early business efforts by offering Jason office space and resources, was a big driver in Jason's ability to start his first business.

Maybe you can make an introduction. Maybe you can offer someone a place to hold a meeting. Maybe you can just give someone your technical equipment when you upgrade. Maybe you can support them by saying something nice on social media. As Jason points out, generosity is a path to success.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Jason’s website - www.JasonWolfe.com

Follow Jason!

• Facebook - @JasonSterlingWolfe

• Twitter - @JasonWolfe

• LinkedIn - @JasonSterlingWolfe

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

College can be the ultimate adulting experience- including taking on some bad money habits if students aren’t taught the right way to start building a financial life.

4 Things College Students Need To Learn About Money

• Debt can be dangerous (credit cards are not free money, student loans must be repaid)

• Cash flow is king (save money, start budgeting, know needs vs. wants)

• Run your own race (know priorities and allocate dollars accordingly)

• Money is a tool that can help or hurt you in reaching your goals

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Tara’s website - www.reisupllc.com

• Tara’s courses MONEY and WEALTH

  • Tara is offering 20% off of either course to our Financial Grownup community. Use the code GROWNUP20 at checkout

Follow Tara!

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Bethany Bayless wanted to be a financial grownup when she was an 18-year college student. But when she couldn’t get a traditional college student job near campus, she got creative, earned the money she needed for expenses and found a way to give back to the community. Plus Bethany shares her favorite apps to make extra cash.

“There is a limit to how much you can cut back in your budget. You don’t have to limit your income. ”

Bethany's money story

Bethany Bayless:
When I graduated high school, I went off to college and as a grownup, I just turned 18, and I went to a college that was very small, and it was in a town of six other colleges. We were lots and lots of college students.

Bobbi Rebell:
What town?

Bethany Bayless:
It was Spokane, Washington. In Spokane, there's Gonzaga University, Eastern Washington, all these big universities. There were not a lot of jobs for college students there. It was very very saturated. I was very adamant that I wanted to pay my own rent.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are, by the way, one of five children.

Bethany Bayless:
That's correct. I am the only girl also, I just might add. I didn't want to ask my parents for money because I'm an adult, and that's what adults do is you make your own money. You pay your own rent and utilities, and food, and all of those things. What I did find was that I could go to a plasma bank and donate my blood plasma twice a week. That's exactly what I did. I made $240, and my rent was $240, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my god. Talk a using your god-given resources, Bethany.

Bethany Bayless:
Exactly. I also think, isn't the house rent supposed to be 25% of your income? It was about 100, and so definitely a lesson learned there. I had to do some other little things here and there. This was before side hustle nation. This was before Uber, before Insta Cart, or something else that I could do to earn money. This was the side hustle app of the age, if you will.

Bethany Bayless:
I just learned very very quickly how much money was worth, and even a quarter was the world to me. It was a chunk right there. It was a great experience because I learned to be frugal. I learned to cut back, and I learned to know exactly what I needed. It was a time that I had zero once.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, I used to give blood plasma a lot. My mother was sick at a point, and that was something that I was a regular there. One thing that I did learn was that they also feed you there, Bethany.

Bethany Bayless:
Yes. Cool.

Bobbi Rebell:
In addition to the money you could get meals, right?

Bethany Bayless:
Yeah. Basically the way the plasma works for people who are not familiar with this process, we will be talking about blood. Just give that disclaimer very quickly. What they do is they hook you up to a machine. They take out a certain amount.
Bobbi Rebell:
It takes a while.

Bethany Bayless:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's a process. This isn't just donating blood. This is a different kind of thing.

Bethany Bayless:
Totally different. Because what they do is they put it in a ... It is a word for it. They put it in a machine where it separates it. They spin it really really fast, and it separates the platelets with the white blood cells, with the red blood cells and your hemoglobin, or whatever. Then they give you back your red blood cells.

Bobbi Rebell:
It takes about an hour sometimes. It depends on your blood pressure, believe it or not. Because I had low blood pressure, and sometimes I would not even qualify because you have to be at a certain level, which makes it a very special thing. People really should donate if you do qualify. It's an important thing to do, I should say. You are there for quite a while.

Bethany Bayless:
It is. I would be there sometimes ... Because you had to go in the waiting room first. Right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Bethany Bayless:
You have to wait-

Bobbi Rebell:
They set it up for you.

Bethany Bayless:
You have to go through this process. It was a chunk of time, but it was exactly what I needed. I went twice a week. I became friends with Rick, who was the guy who ever single week I would go to him. We became friends. He even had the bedside manner of House, very dry, sarcastic, hated the world, but he called me Sunshine. It was a great experience for me to really do it on my own, to do it myself. I thought, why not. It was the epitome of my desperation pretty much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, it is a giving thing to do, and I think it's wonderful that you did that, because even though that wasn't your primary motivation at the time, and I think it's important that people understand that, and that if they are eligible and can do that, it is great to donate plasma.

Bethany Bayless:
Absolutely. Also, I was a universal donor. My blood type is the rarest blood type. I'm AB negative, for anyone who wanted to know. We're finding out so much about each other in this conversation.

Bobbi Rebell:
So much.

Bethany Bayless:
I'm AB negative. It is the universal plasma donor, so anyone could take my plasma.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's wonderful. You didn't mention, what was your favorite snack when you were done? Because they did feed you, so you got food and money.

Bethany Bayless:
Yes, food and money, and I really loved the little cookies. They have little chocolate chip cookies.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yum. Do they have orange juice too?

Bethany Bayless:
Yes, and apple juice, I believe.

Bethany’s money lesson

Bethany Bayless:
The lesson is to do whatever it takes to get by, and to be a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
Within what is legal and what is reasonable. We need to qualify that, Bethany-

Bethany Bayless:
Absolutely. Do anything that was legal. Should I say that again, Bobbi?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I don't know that people should, for example, donate a kidney, that kind of thing. I think that things like plasma, and things like that, are good, but not actual body parts.

Bethany Bayless:
A kidney or another controversial-

Bobbi Rebell:
We want to be clear.

Bethany Bayless:
... another controversial is donating things like eggs.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Bethany Bayless:
That could have set me up for the entire year, but interesting.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's a personal decision. Just be thoughtful about what body parts and things that you give from yourself.

“I could go to a plasma bank and donate my blood plasma twice a week. So that is exactly what I did. I made $240. And my rent was $240 exactly. ”

Bethany's everyday money tip

Bethany Bayless:
Like I said in my story, there was a time when I gave plasma as my last option, it was a time that these apps did not exist. It was not the age of the side hustle, but now I feel like financial grownups have so many options, because you can cut back. There's a limit to how much you can cut back in your budget. There's a limit to how you can limit your expenses.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can only give plasma twice a week.

Bethany Bayless:
You can only give plasma twice a week, but the other thing is that you don't have to limit your income. That is something that there's no limit to the amount of money that you can make. One of the things that you can do is there are a list of apps, things that we've talked about, like Uber or AirBnb, or things like that. Those are already very well known. Other things like Insta Cart, maybe you want to go grocery shopping for people, and you can do it in your spare time. You can pick up times where you just go grocery shopping. It's a great tool to use. I love getting my groceries delivered. If you want to shop [crosstalk 00:10:29].

Bobbi Rebell:
But you can also be the person delivering the groceries.

Bethany Bayless:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
We want to be clear. For all of these, you're not the person getting in the Uber. You're the one driving the Uber.

Bethany Bayless:
That's absolutely right.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's where the income comes.

Bethany Bayless:
Exactly. We have Insta Cart. We have Etsy. Maybe it's time to make things online. There's also some other really great ones, like Rover. It's a dog-walking app. If you want to go hang out with dogs for a day, why don't you download Rover, and you're able to go. You can even teach your kids about being responsible, and take them along with you now that you're a financial grownup, if you have children. Those are some of my favorite apps that you can use.

Episode Links:

Bethany’s websites TheMoneyMillhouse.com and BethanyBayless.org

Apps we mentioned in the episode:

• Uber

• Aribnb

• Instacart

• Etsy

• Rover

Follow Bethany!

• Instagram - @BethanyBayless

• Facebook - @BethanyGraceK

• Twitter - @BethanyBayless

• LinkedIn - @BethanyGrace

Follow The Money Millhouse!

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• Facebook - @TheMoneyMillhouse

• Pinterest - @TheMoneyMillhouse
  

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Bobbi reveals her favorite new money related books, and how to decide if they are right for you. This month’s picks include The Startup Squad by Brian Weisfeld and Nicole Kear, Grown and Flown: How to support your teen, stay close as a family and raise independent adults which is by Mary Dell Harrington and Lisa Heffernan, And then finally The Essential First-Time Home Buyers book: How to buy a house, Get a Mortgage and Close a Real Estate deal by Judy Dutton and Realtor.com editors.

Some ground rules:

There will be only positive comments. Because why waste your time telling you about something I don’t think is worth your time. 

Also - we limit our selections to books written by authors that appear on the podcast. In most cases they will have already appeared- so you can then go back and listen to their episode if you want to learn more. Occasionally, the episode will be in the future - so hopefully you will subscribe so you don’t miss it. 

Here are 3 books I truly enjoyed in the past month!

Book #1

The Startup Squad - which is aimed at kids but I will tell you it hits on themes and lessons many adults in business will truly benefit from.

Here’s what I liked about it:

1. Don’t be fooled by the illustration on the cover or the fact that this is about a lemonade stand. This is a sophisticated book disguised as a kids book. The book covers a lot of territory.

2. They get into extreme detail- for example: the cost of ingredients, pricing strategy and profit margin, organization and planning ahead, design and branding, the importance of selecting the right location to attract target customers- and of course how to figure out who your target customers are in the first place.

3. The book addresses the more human issues associated with a business- including dealing with imposter syndrome, competition, and interpersonal relationships among team members.

Who is this book for?

This book is of course great for kids but I strongly recommend it for aspiring entrepreneurs. It covers all the bases. I also recommend parents read it and then discuss with their kids. Investors will also benefit because they can learn more about how to identify a business that is setting itself up for success, and the skillset to look for in founders. There are so many layered nuances to this book that it really creates a framework for understanding exactly what goes into a successful startup. I loved this this book and am thrilled it is the first in a series.

Book #2

Moving on the the next life stage- the teenage years. Here we have Grown and Flown: How to support your teen, stay close as a family and raise independent adults which is by Mary Dell Harrington and Lisa Heffernan,who are the founders of the #1 website for parents of teens and young adults. People magazine named them 2 of 25 women changing the world.

Here’s what I liked about it:

1. While there are endless resources for new parents, the information overload thins out substantially as kids get older. But in this age of extended childhood and delayed adulthood, we all need more guidance

2. While the authors have a lot of great advice, the book’s heart and depth comes from it’s broad sourcing of contributors. You feel like you have an army of advisors bringing you information you were either looking for- didn’t know you needed.

3. They go there. Topics include the expected on family life and happiness, college admissions and academics. But they also tackle, love, sex and the ultimate taboo- mental health.. and yes even money. For example: in the chapter on college admissions, the authors point out the importance of understanding the financial costs- the sticker price, meaning the listed tuition, is not the whole story- or even close. Financial aid letters can be misleading And to make sure you understand the average number of years it takes a student to graduate- it is not always four. An example of the advice: Don’t let a small price differential keep you from choosing the school that is the best fit - but that debt also matters a lot and needs to be factored in.

Who is this book for?

Primarily it is for parents of kids ages 15 -25- the teenage and college years. But as the parent of a 12 year old- I can say it’s never too early to learn about these years and if anything it will make you appreciate the simpler times of younger kids.

Book #3

The third book I am recommending this month is The Essential First-Time Home Buyers book: How to buy a house, Get a Mortgage and Close a Real Estate Deal

Here’s what I liked about it:

1. It is to the point. This book is going to get you the information you need, and is a great compliment to the realtor.com website- it is self contained and an easy shortcut for first time homeowners.

2. It has fun and fascinating (and sometimes reality check) trivia. Did you know: the average in state move costs $2300? Moving out of state averages $4300!

3. It cuts through the BS with recurring “myths” like the the fact that a new home doesn’t need to be inspected- or that you can’t buy a home if you have bad credit- even a score under 600. . The editors also tell you the truth that a human often won’t. For example: did you know that your appraiser works for the lender- not you. My favorite: 5 things never to say at a real estate closing.

Who is this book for?

Clearly people who are buying their first home. It’s a small book and you can literally carry it with you when you look at homes rather than fumble to look stuff up on your phone. But also current home owners can benefit- as can renters - because in the end every time we decide to rent or stay in our home- that is a decision made that should be done in comparison to the benefits or drawbacks of owning a home. This book lays out what you need to know- so that you can be deliberate in your decision whether or not to buy a home or upgrade or downsize to a new home

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Brian Weisfeld’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of The Startup Squad

• Mary Dell’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Grown and Flown: How to support your teen, stay close as a family and raise independent adults

• Judy Dutton’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of The Essential First-Time Home Buyers book: How to buy a house, Get a Mortgage and Close a Real Estate Deal

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.