Rockstar Finance
Tori Dunlap:
This episode with Her Money podcast host and Today Show financial editor Jean Chatzky is about getting the most value for your work.
In Jean’s money story you will learn
-the impact her divorce had on her financial strategy
-how the loss of her dad changed her perspective on money
-the loss of her job and the career change that followed
-how to assess your financial needs, especially your savings goals
-how focusing on her money created emotional and psychological security
-her post-divorce college savings plan pivot
In Jean’s lesson you will learn:
-how to evaluate your financial needs at different life stages
-which professional advisors she has used at key points in her life
-how to know what to charge clients for your professional services or products
-why and how she shares information about pricing
In her money tip you will learn:
-the power of automatic savings
-mental accounting and why it works for her
-using different pools of money for different goals
-guilt free spending
In my take you will learn:
-my advice on knowing your worth in the market
-why socializing and making friends in person and online is key to growing your business
-Why you must choose clients that value your work
-How to deal with clients that lowball you on price
-How to grow low paying clients into higher paying ones
Links related to this episode
The Today Show
Jean Chatzky
Her Money with Jean Chatzky
Stacy Tisdale
Transcription
Jean Chatzky:
We were talking about how much we charge for speeches and creating content for various people and various companies. In the last year, I've become much more conscious of sharing these kinds of numbers with people in my circle, because this is the way we are all going to get paid more.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
That was NBC today show financial editor Jean Chatzky, host of the Her Money podcast, and author of countless bestselling books, most recently Age Proof. The clip is part of the lesson that she will share with us, in just a few minutes, about getting paid more. But first, we are going to start with her money story, which has to do with a rocky time in Jean's life, and how she found financial security. Here is Jean Chatzky.
Bobbi Rebell:
Jean Chatzky, financial grownup, welcome to the program.
Jean Chatzky:
Thank you Bobbi, so happy to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, and happy 2018, and happy almost 100 episodes of Her Money. Congratulations.
Jean Chatzky:
Thank you, and congratulations on the launch of this podcast, I think it's so much fun.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, it's been quite a year. I remember I think my second time ever as a guest was on Her Money, so it holds a very special place in my heart, and it's really just wonderful content that you're bringing to people, so thank you for that.
Jean Chatzky:
Sure.
Bobbi Rebell:
And everyone of course should check out Her Money.
Bobbi Rebell:
But you have brought with you a really important and compelling money story. Do tell.
Jean Chatzky:
I feel like I was thrust into the real world of financial grownups when I got divorced.
Bobbi Rebell:
And how old were you?
Jean Chatzky:
I was about 40. I mean that's when it hit, and it hit at a time when a lot of things hit. I lost my dad, who had been sick for a while. I got fired from Money Magazine, I mean they didn't actually say fired, but that's what happens when you get laid off. I had to take a whole new look at my life, knowing that I was going to be doing it on my own, knowing that I was going to be a freelancer rather than an employee, starting a business, maybe hiring my own employees.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which you have now.
Jean Chatzky:
Which I have now. And all of it caused me to really take a hard look at the inflows and outflows of money, at what I really needed. And most importantly, at what I needed to meet my savings goals, because when I got divorced, I started saving money like crazy, because nothing else made me feel as safe, and I was not feeling particularly safe in the world at that point.
Jean Chatzky:
And so it took the form of doing everything from buying a smaller house than I could really afford, and just shoving more money every single month into savings, to starting new college accounts for my kids, because the plan that my ex-husband and I had about how we were going to pay off the mortgage and then use that money to pay for college had gone out the window, to really taking a closer look at all of the bills every single month, and seeing what was not necessary.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you weren't doing that before?
Jean Chatzky:
I was doing it, but I wasn't doing it in such a diligent and type A way. I was saving up to the guidelines that I give people, but I just wanted to do more. That's what made me feel safe, was not shoes in the closet, it was just money in the bank.
Jean Chatzky:
So my lesson is a little bit different from that story, but no matter what stage you're at in life, we all need help. And I think asking for help, which I did during that period in my life, from financial advisors, from lawyers, from estate planners, from friends who had been through it before me. We've got to ask for help to figure out how to chart the right course at the right time.
Jean Chatzky:
And I thought about this lesson because I had lunch yesterday with Stacey Tisdale, who is another financial expert/journalist/colleague, who you should absolutely have on this show.
Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely.
Jean Chatzky:
And we were talking about how much we charge for speeches and creating content for various people and various companies. In the last year, I've become much more conscious of sharing these kinds of numbers with people in my circle, because this is the way we are all going to get paid more. And doing this feels to me like we are really helping each other.
Bobbi Rebell:
Give me a money tip, something that you are using yourself, with your family, that is really making a difference, that people can implement right now.
Jean Chatzky:
Going back to what I told you about saving like a crazy person around the time of my divorce, I save automatically for every goal, even the small ones.
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you separate different accounts you mean?
Jean Chatzky:
I separate. I am a huge believer in mental accounting for which Richard Thaler just won a Nobel prize. I find when you have different pools of money for different things, it's easier to reach your goals. I've got a big trip coming up, I've got that money isolated. I'm saving ahead of time, and it means I will not be looking at big credit card bills that I don't have money to pay off, after that trip happens.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it also takes away the guilt of feeling like maybe I shouldn't treat myself to this trip, because the money is there for that.
Jean Chatzky:
Absolutely. And it doesn't matter if it's a trip, or a handbag, or a spa weekend, or college. Just knowing this is the job that this money has been set aside to do is really, really helpful.
Bobbi Rebell:
Great advice, thank you Jean Chatzky.
Jean Chatzky:
Sure.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that advice about pricing. Information is power when it comes to pricing your services, especially as we seem to move more and more into the gig economy, not to mention side hustles.
Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm going to just expand on Jean's great advice about knowing what you're worth in the market and getting it. Financial grownup tip number one, get social. Think of others in your field not as the competition, but as your teammates, your allies. Spend time with your people. This can be in person, like Jean does, or even online. There are countless groups these days, especially for example on Facebook, where you can ask people specifically what do they charge?
Bobbi Rebell:
They may not say it publicly in the App itself, but a lot of people are willing to DM you with some actual numbers and helpful tips about what you can and should be charging.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, do not work with clients that don't value your work, aka don't pay you enough. Good clients want you to stay in business, that can't happen if you are in a race to the bottom with price. If someone does not want to pay the right price to work with you, odds are this is not the last argument you're going to have with them. If they truly have a budget that is still too small, see if you can limit the scope of what you're doing. If you believe they're going to grow into a client that can eventually afford you, make a judgment call. But make it clear that you are working below rate, and that the numbers are unsustainable and need to grow when their business grows.
Bobbi Rebell:
If it really can't work, consider referring them out to someone who does work with people with smaller budgets. They will appreciate it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for listening to this episode of Financial Grownup. We are loving all the amazing feedback. Please subscribe, share, rate, review. It matters, and is truly appreciated.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is a BRK media production.
Retire Inspired’s Chris Hogan had a taste for expensive food at the grocery store- and it was was thinning out his bank account. But when he saw the true cost of his weekly habit he quickly hit the brakes and kept the change.
In Chris’ money story you will learn
-How Chris Hogan had money wake up call
-Why his spending was spiraling out of control
-How he curbed his grocery spending bill from $1500 a month to close to nothing
-How routine and habit was hurting his wallet
-The specific strategy Chris and his wife used to get back on track with their spending
-The crazy meals the Hogans had while cleaning out their food stash!
In Chris’ lesson you will learn
-Chris’s strategy to avoid mixing up wants and needs
-The importance of being intentional with how you spend your money
-How to curb spending even when you think you can afford it
-Chris’ saying: interest you pay is a penalty but interest you earn is a reward
-How to get debt out of your life
In Chris’ money tip you will learn
-Why he believes cash is the best tool to control spending
-How electronic payments can confuse you and cause you to spend more than you intend
In my take you will learn:
-While eating out can be a budget killer, eating at home can be expensive as well
-Be deliberate at the grocery store- have a list and don’t buy those impulse items!
-Don’t shop hungry
-Use apps like Grocery IQ and Grocery pal to help stay on track in the store and to plan better
-Avoid routine spends. But on purpose, and with purpose!
EPISODE LINKS
Chris Hogan’s website https://www.chrishogan360.com/
Chris Hogan’s book Retire Inspired
Chris Hogan’s podcast Retire inspired https://www.chrishogan360.com/podcast/
Chris Hogan’s Retirement calculator https://www.chrishogan360.com/riq/
Follow Chris!
Instagram @ChrisHogan360
Twitter @ChrisHogan360
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/chrishogan360/
Grocery apps to check out:
Grocery IQ
Grocery Pal
Here are some stories about Grocery apps:
8 apps that will save you real Money on Food- from Money
http://time.com/money/5095326/8-apps-that-will-save-you-real-money-on-food/
10 Best apps to save money on groceries 2018 from Frugal for Less
https://www.frugalforless.com/apps-to-save-money-on-groceries/
Best Grocery List apps article from best products;
https://www.bestproducts.com/eats/food/g1505/grocery-shopping-list-apps/
6 best grocery shopping list apps for iphone and ipad 2018 from appsdose
http://www.appsdose.com/2015/04/6-best-grocery-shopping-list-apps-for-iphone-ipad.html
7 Grocery List apps for iPhone and Android for best shopping experience
https://mashtips.com/best-grocery-list-app-iphone-android/
Retire Inspired’s Chris Hogan had a taste for expensive food at the grocery store- and it was was thinning out his bank account. But when he saw the true cost of his weekly habit he quickly hit the brakes and kept the change. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn the most important thing to remember when budgeting. #Budget #MoneyTips #Author
Transcription
Chris Hogan:
You would have thought I was getting ready for Y2K. I had food in the cupboards, the freezers. I had food everywhere, but yet I was still every Saturday morning going to the grocery store.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. We talk a lot these days in our society about being mindful. I'm working hard about bringing that into my life in a consistent and intentional way, but we also need to talk about mindlessness especially when it comes to our every day spending. I love the story that Retire Inspired author and podcast Chris Hogan is about to share with us because of its brilliant simplicity. We need to hear this stuff and know that even the people we look up to when it comes to money have not always been the role models for money mindfulness. He became aware, and once he saw the numbers, change came. Chris Hogan, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Chris Hogan:
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you.
Bobbi Rebell:
It's an honor to have you. I am such a fan of all that you do for people from Retire Inspired, the book, to your podcast, to all of your good teachings and advice. It is truly a privilege, and we thank you.
Chris Hogan:
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you.
Bobbi Rebell:
You have brought with you a money story about spending and the grocery store, which is something that people don't always realize what's going on there. Do tell.
Chris Hogan:
Bobbi, I had an issue. I wasn't being a grownup at this time.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh no.
Chris Hogan:
This is back before I had kids. I'm now the proud father of three boys, but no kids, double income household. We were just getting started getting serious about where we were financially and what we were doing. I sat down and was looking at bank statements. I wanted to add up, I wanted to know where was my money going? Where was our money heading? I started adding up the different categories, the eating out, but the grocery bill. This was one that was jumping out at me. I thought, this can't be correct. I went another month back, and yeah, $1,200 a month on groceries, a family of two.
Bobbi Rebell:
What were you buying?
Chris Hogan:
Anything and everything, meats, cheeses, anything and everything at any time. Again, we had the money. We weren't hurting anybody. I went back a third month and added it up. It was like $1,500. I was like, "Okay, let's go back to the $1,200," and it was just too much. Then I started realizing something. I was making the grocery store rich, instead of me building my own wealth. That became my financial wake up call, so to speak. Literally, looking at this, we got intentional. We got on a budget, and we set up a dollar amount that we were going to spend on groceries. That was the taking control. I'll never forget, we looked at all the food that I stockpiled. You would have thought I was getting ready for Y2K. I had food in the cupboards, the freezers. I had food everywhere, but yet I was still every Saturday morning going to the grocery store. I realized something. I was shopping out of habit, not out of necessity.
Bobbi Rebell:
It sounds like it was part of your routine. That was your weekend routine.
Chris Hogan:
That's exactly right. It was the routine. Regardless if we needed anything or not, I was going and buying things because I could. Stepping back and really looking at that, we put some parameters in place. We set up a dollar amount that we were going to spend on groceries, but before we did that we ate the food that we had. I'll never forget, that was a grownup moment for us, really starting to take a stand because the $1,200 to $1,500 that was normally being spent in that month, we didn't spend it that month. We actually sent it toward our debt.
Bobbi Rebell:
The entire amount?
Chris Hogan:
The entire amount. We had $100 for groceries. We built the milk, and eggs, and things like that. The other stuff, we ate the things that we had. Now I'm not going to lie to you, Bobbi, we had some interesting meals. It was interesting. Ramen noodles with corn. We did some stuff, but we made a stand at that point financially that we were going to be in charge, and our habits weren't going to take charge of us.
Bobbi Rebell:
I want to ask you something. Earlier you said you could afford it, but then you said you were putting that money towards debt. You could afford it in terms of cash flow, but yet maybe you should not have been spending that, clearly, because you could have put it towards debt, so your perception of afford has changed.
Chris Hogan:
Absolutely, it did, because my math changed. Looking at debt, it was one of those things that at that time we rationalized it, because why? Everybody had credit card debt, everybody had a car payment. As you start to look at it, and you start to run the numbers, you understand interest that you pay is a penalty. Interest that you earn is a reward. When you start to learn real math, as I call it, you start to see debt for what it is. It's a threat, and it's a thief. You want to get it out of your life.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson from this for our listeners?
Chris Hogan:
I'd say, "Be intentional." It's the lesson of wants versus needs, and we can get confused. We can want something so bad that we feel like we need it, but I want us to be clear. Set spending limits for yourself. Understand what you normally spend, but let's put some dollar amounts on there of hey, here's what we're going to spend on groceries. This is what we're going to spend eating out. Now you start to construct that budget. It puts you in control, and then you don't have to feel regret.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's move on to your money tip because this is one, I know what you're going to say. It's so brilliantly simple.
Chris Hogan:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is your money tip for everyone that they can use right away?
Chris Hogan:
Right away, my money tip is this. Use cash. I know it sounds crazy, but I'm telling you, when you have cash, and you go into the grocery store with that dollar amount, it helps you stay aware, and it helps you stay in control. Now when they say the total amount is $85, and you count out $85 you are feeling the spending of the money as you're counting out those bills as opposed to with a debit card, the swipe, we don't feel the pain there. It's just this swipe. Now there's a chip, and all these things going on. It doesn't become spending until you balance your checking account. Use cash in those areas that you struggle in, whether it's eating out. Get an envelope, write eating out on it. Put a dollar amount in there each and every pay period. When the money is gone, you're done. It's this great reminder, and it keeps us aware of where we stand financially.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, Chris. Thank you so much. I want to hear more quickly about what is going on with you, and what you are working on at Dave Ramsey Solutions and at Retire Inspired. Do tell.
Chris Hogan:
Yes. We launched Retire Inspired in 2016. I'm working on my second book that we're going to have ready and available for the public in 2019, but I'm traveling all over the country doing smart money events where we walk people through the baby steps. I'm also doing corporate events where I'm talking about money and leadership. They can go check me out at ChrisHogan360.com, look at the events page, and they can find out where I'm at and where I'm going to be.
Bobbi Rebell:
One my favorite things about what you do in your books, and I hope you have this in your next book, is that you really as you travel you get so many unique stories that are relatable, or sometimes hopefully they won't be relatable because some of them can be pretty scary, but I look forward to hearing more of those stories. In terms of social media, always Chris Hogan 360?
Chris Hogan:
Always, everything, on Facebook as well as Twitter, Instagram. @chrishogan360 is where I'm at.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, there was a lot there that I could relate to and have definitely been guilty of. This is a case where I am right in it with you guys. Financial Grownup Tip Number 1: We think of eating out in restaurants as a big expense that has to be watched, and it does, but you can also buy quite expensive items at the grocery store, and have some very pricey home cooked meals, or even worse as in the case of the Hogan household, some expensive food just sitting in the pantry and the freezer. You have to watch that bill. It seems so simple, but make a list when you go shopping and stick to it.
Bobbi Rebell:
You've heard this before, but I'm going to remind you. Don't shop hungry. It happens, I do it. I always buy more than I should and fall for the impulse items. I'm working on it, and you should too. There are a ton of apps that can help you to be more organized and save money when you shop for groceries. I'm going to put links to a few articles with suggestions in the show notes, but a couple to check out just here, Grocery IQ and Grocery Pal. You make your list, and the app will sort out and show you discounts including those for other brands of the same item. While it may seem like it's okay if you can afford it to spend that extra money at the grocery store, it's not always as okay as it seems. For example, in the Hogan's case, they realized that they could be using that money to pay down debt. They thought that they could afford it, but maybe not so much. If you don't have debt, wouldn't it be more fun to do something else with the money, or more smarter, to invest the money? Savings is a good thing.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number 2: Ditch the bad money habits that are just there because they're routine. Chris Hogan was shopping at the grocery every Saturday because it was Saturday. He did not need the food. In fact, he probably didn't have room for it at a certain point. This comes back to things like lattes. If you want one because you want one, and you can afford it, that's fine, but if you're just buying one every morning because that's your routine, think about it. Maybe you want to do something else some days.
Bobbi Rebell:
I want to thank all of you for your ratings and reviews on iTunes. It is making a huge difference in helping others discover our new podcast. I also want to thank Forbes for naming Financial Grownup one of the five podcasts that is getting it right. It was amazing to be getting that kind of recognition less than two months after we started this project. Keep spreading the word, friends, and keep in touch. I am on Twitter, @bobbirebell and on Instagram at bobbirebell1, on Facebook. Check me out under Bobbi Rebell and learn more about the show at, you're getting the theme here, bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast.
Bobbi Rebell:
Chris Hogan is pretty much as grown up as it gets. I loved his episode, and I hope you did too, and that it got us all one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Dad Dave Ramsey taught Rachel Cruze the basics of money and staying out of debt, but that did not keep her from wanting to splurge before she had the cash to afford it.
In Rachel’s story you will learn
-The dinner party conversation that had her questioning her values
-What it was like growing up in the Dave Ramsey household
-The way she and her siblings earned money as kids
-The quote that helped her find the right decision to her money dilemma
In Rachel’s money lesson you will learn:
-Rachel’s advice on how to decide on whether to splurge on expensive luxury goods
-Rachel’s perspective on how to manage social media created wants
-How to live your age-appropriate life, no matter what your friends are doing
In Rachel’s money tip you will learn:
-The importance of being intentional with your money
-Her monthly technique to create a budget
-Planning for taxes
-How limits and boundaries can help you take control of your finances
-Her recommendation to use Everydollar free app for budgeting
In My Take you will learn:
-How to live your age-appropriate financial life
-How to afford luxury items on a budget
-How to keep instagram-envy in perspective
Episode links
Rachel’s website: https://www.rachelcruze.com
Everydollar budgeting app
The Rachel Cruze Show
Rachel’s book: Love Your Life, Not Theirs
Rachel’s book: Smart Money Smart Kids
Bag Borrow or Steal
Use this link for RenttheRunway and you will get $30 off your first order (and I get $30 too!)
ArmGem.com
Bagtropolis.com
MonLuxe.com
Bagdujour.com
Bagromance.com
Follow Rachel!
Instagram @rachelcruze
Twitter @rachelcruze
Facebook: Rachel Cruze
YouTube channel
Some fun stories on renting handbags:
I own nothing
7 places where you can rent designer handbags
High Fashion Designer Dress & Handbag Rentals- Worth the Money?
Transcription
Rachel Cruze:
We went out to dinner with Mom and Dad and my mom was like, "Oh Rachel, I got this great new purse! You would love it." And so she held it up and I remember thinking, "Oh it's so beautiful. I want one!"
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So, did our guest go get that purse that she really wanted? I'll give you a hint, her parents are Dave and Sharon Ramsey. Yeah, that Dave Ramsey. But then again, her mom had one. That got you thinking right? Well, Rachel Cruze did grow up in the Ramsey household. At the time of her birth, her family was actually in financial peril, so the values and belief system that she has now came from years of hard work that she grew up watching.
Bobbi Rebell:
So anyway, even if you already follow Rachel Cruze and you're a fan, maybe you've read her book, Love Your Life, Not Theirs, this is a story that you probably have not heard before, and I'm going to bet you're going to want to discuss with your friends afterwards and really think about what would you do? Here is Rachel Cruze.
Bobbi Rebell:
Rachel Cruze! You are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Rachel Cruze:
Hey Bobbi, thank you! Thanks for having me on.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all the amazing things happening in your life, not the least of which is your seven-month-old daughter.
Rachel Cruze:
Yes, I know. We now have two little girls in the house, which is just nuts. But yeah, so she's seven months now, Caroline. I mean, if you're a parent you know how fast time flies and it's such a cliché, but it's so true.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, it's so true. But at least now with all of our digital media, one major plus is we document it so much.
Rachel Cruze:
That's right.
Bobbi Rebell:
So we can see what goes on.
Rachel Cruze:
Thousands of pictures, for sure.
Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm really excited to deep dive right into your money story, because it also has to do with parenting and sort of looking up at your parents and seeing all of their accomplishments, but then maybe translating appropriately to your life. You went out to dinner with your parents maybe a few years into your marriage? Tell us the story.
Rachel Cruze:
Yes. Okay, so you have to understand that I grew up in Dave Ramsey's household, okay? So debt was like a four-letter word. If you don't have the money, you don't buy it. And we worked hard as kids, we were never given money. So we were never on allowance, we were always on commission. So you work, you get paid, you don't work-
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, you were on commission?
Rachel Cruze:
Commission, yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is something you would get commission for?
Rachel Cruze:
Oh gosh. Cleaning your room, feed the dog, running the vacuum, helping put laundry away, like chores around the house is what we'd get paid on.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, so that's the world I grew up in. So you kind of have to understand that for this story. So, fast forward many years, I was out to dinner with my parents. My husband and I had been married at that point, probably about two years, so this was around 2011. We were working hard, we were a few years into both of our new careers and getting paid like the bottom. I mean, we were maybe making like 35,000 a year. I don't know what it was, but it was like-
Bobbi Rebell:
But age-appropriate.
Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, totally! I mean, we're early 20's, that's the reality. You're in an entry-level job and that's what you're doing. And so we went out to dinner with Mom and Dad, and my mom was like, "Oh Rachel, I got this great new purse! You would love it." And so she held it up and I remember thinking, "Oh, it's so beautiful. I want one."
Bobbi Rebell:
Describe it, what was it?
Rachel Cruze:
It was black and it was the type of bag that ... I won't throw the brand name out there, but it was like the square, where it was stiff. Does that make sense? Like it held its form when you set it down.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. It was super fancy.
Rachel Cruze:
So nice and just beautiful, yeah. And I thought, "Oh, I need a new purse. I've been working hard for two years, right? I deserve a nice purse!" So we went home that night, and I went and looked it up online because I told myself, "I think I could buy this," and I saw the price tag, and I almost passed out. So like, "What? Oh my goodness. No, I don't have the money to pay for that." And I had kind of this pity party for about five minutes there, on my laptop, of thinking, "But we work so hard." And then I had to stop, and I shook myself, and I was like, "Rachel, no. Your parents are 30 years ahead of you. You're in your early 20's." And it just reminded me of the quote from Larry Burkett where he said that we spend the first five to seven years of our marriages trying to obtain the same standard of living as our parents.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes!
Rachel Cruze:
But it took our parents 30 years to get there. Yeah, so it was just that reminder of, you know what, when you're young, no matter where you are in life, I'll say that, but when you're being wise with money, sometimes it's going to cause you to say no to things. And it's like, "Okay, no. I can't afford that right now," but I'm saying no in the present so that I can say yes in the future. That I can make a wiser purchase later when we actually have the money and it's not a huge percentage of our net worth, which it would have probably been at that time.
Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.
Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, so it was just one of those moments of thinking, "Okay, I'm going to have to say no to myself and it's not fun." But fast forward now Bobbi, six, seven years, now I'm like, "Okay, I could probably get a similar type of handbag now and that's okay, you know? Because we actually will have the money now to buy it."
Bobbi Rebell:
Although you'll probably spend it on baby stuff anyway, but ...
Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, it's probably going to end up going to like a big girl bed, which is what our two year old needs right now, so.
Bobbi Rebell:
And that's good.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for our listeners here?
Rachel Cruze:
Just to remember that wherever you are in life, you have to be confident and content in it. It's hard in our 20's, when we want things. It's hard in our 30's, when you're itching to think, "Is this all life is?" I mean, every decade's going to have its own set of problems and issues, but you have to be content no matter where you are in life, or you're going to spend yourself into a hole and constantly live with debt, and with things that you can't afford and things that you really don't need.
Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, your friends probably can't afford them either.
Rachel Cruze:
Exactly. But on Instagram it looks like they can.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Before I let you go, I want to get an every day money tip, something you, your family, do on an every day, or monthly, yearly, whatever. Something real and tangible that everyone can put to work right now.
Rachel Cruze:
The number one mistake people make with their money is that they're not intentional. So my money tip would be, do a budget every single month, no excuses, do a budget. Because what you're doing is you're telling your money where it's going to go before the month even begins, and so start at the beginning of every month and create your budget and stick to it. Which means that there's limits and boundaries, yes, but it's going to help you take control of your money and actually get you to where you want to go. I mean, so many of us ... Especially now in life, I'm like, we're doing our taxes and thankfully I don't have to look back and think, "Oh my gosh, where did all my money go?" No, because we were very, very deliberate and intentional.
Rachel Cruze:
And it takes some mistakes and it's going to take a little while to get used to it, but give yourself a good three months to get your budget to start working and stick to it. You can download EveryDollar, it's a free budgeting app and it's awesome to help you get started if you've never done a budget before. But being intentional with where your money goes is tip number one, by far.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. And I will put a link to EveryDollar in the show notes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Finally, tell us what you're up to. I know you're back from maternity leave, you've got your show, I adore the first four episodes so far. What's coming up next?
Rachel Cruze:
Yes, well thank you. Yeah, well the show, The Rachel Cruze Show, is one that I am so excited about. We did four episodes right before I went on maternity leave and we're actually finishing up episode one today, we're filming some of it today, which is so fun. So it will be out on YouTube and Facebook, so you can follow and subscribe to both of those, and it will be really just this 30-minute show compact with guests and content and segments all around how money fits into your life, but we have fun with it. I mean, there's fashion tips, there's cooking tips, I mean, it's basically how do you live your life well and be wise with your money all at the same time. And so it's been a really fun project to work on and one that we're continuing to do, which is great, for the ongoing foreseeable future. So I'm really excited about it.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I will tell everyone, they're really well produced, this is coming from a former TV producer. They are really put together very well, very watchable. You'll probably end up binging, so just leave enough time to invest in watching the episodes because they really are terrific and they really are put together well.
Rachel Cruze:
Well thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
And great for, especially for moms, but really for anyone. Even cooking tips, baby tips, big kid tips, everything, it's just terrific. So thank you so much. And where can people find you, in terms of social media and all that stuff?
Rachel Cruze:
Yes, @rachelcruze and it's C-R-U-Z-E. So Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, I'm all there.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Rachel Cruze, this has been great.
Rachel Cruze:
Yeah. Thanks Bobbi, thanks for having me on.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, who has not wanted that fancy purse a friend or a relative has? We're all guilty of that. Even maybe we saw it in an ad or on social media, but as Rachel pointed out so well, her parents are at a totally different life stage. So Financial Grownup tip number one, live your age-appropriate financial life. If you're an empty nester for example, with a comfortable retirement nest egg, pun intended, and it allows for, say, super fancy handbags or some other luxury splurge, go for it. But if you are one of the millions of people just starting out your adult financial life, or maybe you're also new parents, or you have typical early-career income for someone in their 20's, maybe early 30's, and you have goals, like paying off debt or saving for a down payment for a home, maybe you have young kids. You have age-appropriate financial realities and that's okay, don't beat yourself up about it, you're doing great. If you really want a fancy handbag for some event, or just to have around for a little bit, you could rent at places like Bag Borrow or Steal, or Rent the Runway.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, social media driven envy is a real thing, we're all human. Whether it's a friend's vacation photos or they just always look so put together, don't make assumptions, live in your own world. That's something Rachel talks about in her book, Love Your Life, Not Theirs. So many young people are now coming forward admitting they literally do things, literally go on vacation, on trips, they buy specific items, to make their life seem Instagram-worthy. Friends, you have better things to do. And by the way, all those cool things may not even be theirs. You'd be surprised how many people are on the rental bandwagon, so maybe get on it. Or maybe just do without it completely.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all so much for your support and feedback. I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, reviewed the podcast, it's amazing. Thank you in advance for anyone who now goes, hint hint, and maybe takes the time to write a review, subscribes and so on. And also, I really enjoy hearing from you, so thank you to those of you who have been communicating through Instagram and Twitter, Facebook and so on. Keep doing that, I'm on twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and of course go to my website, bobbirebell.com, and sign up for my newsletter so I can keep everyone posted on what's going on with the podcast. Rachel's story was so great, I hope you guys enjoyed it as much as I did, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Million Dollar Listing star Ryan Serhant, whose new book “Sell It Like Serhant” is already a best seller, and his younger brother Jack had what seemed like a brilliant idea for firewood a business at age 10. While the business went down in flames, the lessons formed a foundation for Serhant’s extreme success in the real estate and entertainment business.
In Ryan's money story you will learn:
-Why he says he was not a natural salesperson
-How 10-year old Ryan and his 7-year old brother started a firewood business to make money on their family farm
-The challenges the boys faced including difficult customers, and uncooperative vendors
-Why they were literally left on the side of the road by a worker!
In Ryan's money lesson you will learn:
-How to deal with challenging customers
-Why you have to anticipate an be prepared with realistic expectations when you start a business
In Ryan's everyday money tip you will learn:
-How to use the faces app to motivate you to work harder for your future!
-The specific way that photo helps Ryan avoid overspending
-The impact that the failure of Lehman Brothers had on Ryan's outlook
Ryan and Bobbi also talk about:
-Why Ryan belonged to three gyms
-Ryan's daily routine and how can apply parts of it to your life
-Tips on how entrepreneurs can structure their days
-Why Ryan studies the top business leaders
-Ryan's Finder, Keeper, and Do-er system
-How many times you need to follow up if you want to work for Ryan!
In My Take you will learn:
-How to use the tips from Ryan's book Sell it Like Servant for both offense and Defense when it comes to sales techniques
-How to take Ryan's strategy of studying high achievers to the micro level and apply it to your own life meeting and learning from others
EPISODE LINKS:
Find out more about Ryan at
https://ryanserhant.com
Follow Ryan!!
Instagram @ryanserhant
Twitter @ryanserhant
Get Ryan’s Book "Sell it Like Serhant"
sellitlikeserhant.com
Check out Ryan’s Vlog! youtube.com/ryanserhant
Learn more about Ryan's hit Bravo shows!
BIO:
Ryan Serhant began his first day in the real estate business on September 15, 2008 – the same day that Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy in the wake of the subprime mortgage collapse. While the real estate sector has steadily recovered, Serhant himself has quickly become one of the most successful brokers in the world, with agents under his leadership in New York City, Los Angeles, Miami and the Hamptons. The Serhant Team has been named by WSJ Real Trends as the #1 real estate team in New York for two years in a row, and the #2 team in the country, selling close to $1 billion in real estate last year. Ryan is consistently the youngest broker to make the Journal’s top ten list each year.
Ryan stars in the popular Bravo series “Million Dollar Listing New York,” which just wrapped its seventh season. On September 18, 2018 – the week of his 10-year anniversary in real estate – he will debut his first book, Sell It Like Serhant. When pre-sales were announced, Ryan was #1 on Amazon’s daily list of “Movers and Shakers.” As star and producer, this year he also debuted his new Bravo show, "Sell It Like Serhant," started a successful vlog (www.youtube.com/ryanserhant) and launched an app (Agent Empire: NYC). There is nothing Ryan can't do. His motto communicates his professional and personal philosophy, "Expansion. Always. In all ways."
Transcription
Ryan Serhant:
We got into this fight with this one guy that wanted us to stack his would be in a strange way in his house around all the different fireplaces, because I also didn't prepare for how people wanted the wood actually delivered. And my delivery guy got really pissed off, got in his pickup truck and he drove off and left me and my little seven-year-old brother on the side of the street.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, that was million-dollar listing star and newly minted author, Ryan Serhant, getting real about his first sale experience. It did not go well. Thanks everyone for joining me. This episode is a big deal, and not just because of Ryan Serhant. He is a big deal, though. It's even bigger because it is Episode 100 of the Financial Grownup podcast. We are also celebrating being a finalist for best new personal finance podcast at the Plutus Awards. And, the paperback of my book, How to be a Financial Grownup, is coming up October 2nd. None of this would be possible without my amazing editor and secret weapon, Steve Stewart. So, thank you, Steve. And thanks to all of you for joining us on this journey.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now, to the fantastic Ryan Serhant. When you read his book, Sell It Like Serhant, and if the title sounds familiar, yes, he has another reality TV show on Bravo called Sell It Like Serhant, you're going to learn more about this incredible guy. But of note, he says he was not a natural salesman. That came later after learning from experience. So, we talked about how he learned about sales and being successful in business. Here is Ryan Serhant.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Ryan Serhant, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Ryan Serhant:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
And happy pub day, we are taping this on the day that you're amazing book, Sell It Like Serhant: How to Sell More, Earn More, and Become the Ultimate Sales Machine, is coming out. It's already a bestseller and comes on the heels of so much other success. Like million-dollar listing New York, and my new obsession, your vlog. So, congrats on all.
Ryan Serhant:
Oh, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk to you about your money story that you brought. It has to do with the very first experience you had in sales, which makes perfect sense coming from the ultimate sales guy. Tell us about the firewood and your brother.
Ryan Serhant:
So, I wasn't a natural salesperson. And I think it's very hard for people to be born as natural sales people. And what that even means, I could write a whole nother book about it. But I was a very shy and little kid. All I knew was that in order to be able to have money to spend, I had to make money. And if my parents weren't going to give it to me and if I was in school and was too young to get a job, what could I do?
Ryan Serhant:
We lived on a farm outside Boston, and my little brother was seven. We were doing a lot of ... my parents were kind of like cutting down trees and making way for pastures and things like that. And I just saw all these trees laying all over the place. And asked my dad one day, "What are you doing with all of those streets?" He was like, "Wow, they get cut off, they get sold off. They get turned into malts. It just kind of gets recycled." And I was like, "Well, we have fireplaces in our house and we get firewood, don't you buy that from somewhere? What if we take the trees and we cut it up and I sell the firewood?" I had no idea how he's going to do it, I was not big enough to hold an axe. But my dad said. "Okay."
Ryan Serhant:
He said, "What's your company going to be called if you're going to be a firewood selling company?" And we took out a little ad in our local newspaper. I think it was called Ryan Jack, because my little brother's name is jack, Firewood Company. I think that's literally what it was.
Bobbi Rebell:
Who paid for the ad, Ryan?
Ryan Serhant:
We did out of our minimal allowance.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So, this was your startup capital costs?
Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, that was our startup capital cost. Because they were doing all this tree clearing anyway, there was a wood splitter that was already there. And my little brother and I started splitting wood, and we bulk it up into chords, and we put it in the back of a pickup truck. And then we would get the guy that kind of was helping cut down the trees to be our delivery guy to then go supply people with their firewood. And that was our first little business. And it came crashing down.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, that's what I was going to say. There were some challenges, things you didn't think about.
Ryan Serhant:
Well, I didn't think about customer service and how to deal with people who are unhappy with their firewood. All I knew was I live at this house down the street, there's a bunch of cut down trees, we're going to cut it up and sell it. What do you mean that there's different types of firewood, different types of trees, different types of drying, termites, all these things I didn't even think about?
Ryan Serhant:
So, we had some tough customers in the beginning, and I also didn't think about how I was going to get the word anywhere. So, I thought that the guy that was cutting down trees was going to help and just help us drop it off, we're little kids. But he wanted to cut, and then we got into this fight with this one guy that wanted us to stack his wood really really in a strange way in his house around all the different fireplaces, because I also didn't prepare for how people wanted to what actually delivered. And my delivery guy got really pissed off, got his pickup truck, and he drove off and left me my little seven-year-old brother on the side of the street which is random guy.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're kids. Oh, my gosh.
Ryan Serhant:
Yap. That was the end of our firewood business.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, in the end, was there a profit or loss when all settled in?
Ryan Serhant:
Definitely a loss. I don't know how much we lost, because I didn't really understand what my time was worth at 10 years old.
Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.
Ryan Serhant:
And our capital cost was that one ad. We might have run two ads. I can't remember what they cost. Maybe it was 20 bucks and ad. It wasn't a huge loss, but it definitely was a ding to the self-esteem that maybe I don't want to run my own firewood selling business.
Bobbi Rebell:
Glad you moved on to real estate. What's the takeaway for our listeners?
Ryan Serhant:
The takeaway from that is anticipate and be prepared with realistic expectations. Just having wood to chop down and sell it is a very, very small part of actually creating a firewood selling business. So, you need to be prepared for all the objections and all the issues you're going to run into.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which are things that apply to all sales, which we'll get to in just a minute. I just want to get to your everyday money tip.
Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, there's something that I have in the office. That is a photo of myself as an 80-year-old man. There's this app you can get on your phone called the Faces App, someone just showed it to me. You take your photo of yourself and it realistically ages you, which is pretty crazy. But that photo is future Ryan. And every day, I think about that guy. Because I mean, it feels like just yesterday that I was that 10-year-old kid selling firewood or trying to sell it anyway. Before I know it, I'm going to be that guy. And everything I do today is for him. It's not for Ryan this coming weekend, it's not for Ryan next year. All of that is going to happen regardless. But I don't want 80-year-old Ryan pissed off at 34-year-old Ryan because he made poor money decisions or poor savings decisions, or he's just spent too much. That is my money tip.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which is a great one. So, is there a specific ... Can you remember maybe one example of you kind of not being that motivated and then looking at that photo and being like, "Yeah, I got to do this."
Ryan Serhant:
Every time I think about spending money on things that don't need, I look at that photo. It's just like I ... and I don't want to sound cheap. But I don't need that many pairs of shoes. I run around the suit all day long. I don't need that many suits. Little things where I could have spent money and just because I have it or just because whatever, it's just credit, I think about that like, "You know what? I should save it, because compound interest is a powerful thing." And it's better off just being saved because you never know what could happen.
Ryan Serhant:
And at the end of the day, I got into sales business the day Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy, and I will never forget the pain that a lot of people went through at the end of 2008. And that's going to come back again, I don't know when. But it's probably going to come back multiple times by the time that I'm that old man in the photo that I have by my computer screen.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book, because I'm learning so much. Not so much as someone that sells, but as someone that is sold to. So, it's quite eye opening, Ryan, the things that happen.
Ryan Serhant:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
It's kind of written as an offense, but it can also be defense. So, I want to go through some of my favorite things in your favorite things in the book. We talked before we started taping about your day. Tell us how a successful person at age, by the way, you're all of 34, you're always one of the journalist top sales people, you've been winning all kinds of accolades as a salesperson, and you're only 34. What do you? What's your day look like?
Ryan Serhant:
I start my day at 4:30, Monday through Friday. And it's just because I want to squeeze out as much of the day as I possibly can. I don't want-
Bobbi Rebell:
Are you sleeping at 8:00 or ... How much sleep do you get?
Ryan Serhant:
I try to go to bed by 11:00.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, you don't sleep a lot of hours.
Ryan Serhant:
Not Monday through Friday. I'll sleep in on Saturdays to like eight or so. A lot of people just wake up and go to a job or go to work, and they don't really sit down and try to game plan for their career. I only have a few things during the day that I do that I consider part of my job. Everything else I do is for growth and for my career as a whole to make that 80-year-old guy happy one day. And a lot of that goes down to how you structure your actual day.
Ryan Serhant:
And for any sales people who are listening, any entrepreneurs, anybody who really answers to themselves, I had to figure out, what do I do at 9:00 a.m.? Do I cold call? Do I go out on the streets? No one's telling me what to do. And so, I looked at the top companies in the world, even I was just one person and I said, "Okay, all just top companies have CEO, CFO, COOs, I need to have the same thing, even though I'm just one person. So, that means I got to do it all on my own, and not all the same time, I need to separate it. You know what? The CEO, I'm going to call the finder, because I'm not really my own CEO. But I can be a finder of new business, a finder of new leads, a finder of work that the rest of my company can do for the rest of the day. I'm going to do that from 8:00 to 10:00 a.m. 12:00 to 1:00 p.m., I'll be the keeper, so that's the CFO hours. That's when I would think about, "Okay, well, I've $10 to spend today. How many stamps can I buy with that $10?"
Ryan Serhant:
And I would think about kind of the financial health of my "company", which when I first started was nonexistent. And now it's really thinking about all the advertising budgets that we have, and the people and the moving and the salaries. And then the rest of the day, I'd spend being the doer. So, finder, keeper, doer is what I call it, FKD. So, finder, keeper, doer, and the rest of the day I'd spend as the doer, which is the COO. Sets operations, it's doing the work, it's doing-
Bobbi Rebell:
Which just a few can delegate more now.
Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, which now, the majority of my day is as the finder. When I started, the majority of my day was as the doer. I'd think for half an hour or an hour, because I didn't have that much to think about as to how I wanted to grow my business, I didn't have any money. So, that wouldn't take me that long to think about. And then the rest of the day, I put everything into action. Now, I have a team that can handle a lot of the doer work, and a team of accountants and bookkeepers that can handle a lot of the financials. And I spend 75% of my day as the finder, as that CEO trying to build the business.
Bobbi Rebell:
One thing I loved regarding Finder, and getting new business in the book was your strategy initially, and I don't know if you still do this. I can't imagine you have time to do this. You saw that it was working to meet people at the gym, potential clients. So, you expanded on that.
Ryan Serhant:
Yes. I think it's important to do what works for you, and then just to do it over and over again in as many different places as you can.
Ryan Serhant:
I knew when I first moved to New York City, I'm not from New York. It's not going to help me or be a good use of my time to go to school functions that other brokers are going to just because they went to school on the Upper East Side, or to go to the church, or go to the synagogue, just to say that I'm religious, but I'm not, just to meet people, which is what most sales people do. So, for me, I really had work, I would do to the gym. And the gym was a good place for me to meet people who had a similar interest, which was kind of general fitness. And if I go to a nice gym, maybe they also could afford a nice apartment, so they can afford a nice gym. And that worked. I saw it worked. And I said, "Okay, you know what? This is now my thing. So, I'm going to go to another gym as well. And then I'm going to go to another gym. And I'm going to go to as many jobs as I can, because that's what works for me. And that's going to be where I build my network." And then for the first couple years, that's really what I did.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the thing that you make people do if they really want to work for you? It's not just about one follow up.
Ryan Serhant:
Oh, I make them follow up for a considerable period of time. Because the power of follow up is my whole business. Deals live and die by how persistent I am to get the deal done. And I tell everybody, I don't work for anyone. I work for the deal all the time as a salesperson. And my job is to get that deal done to everybody's benefit. And so, if people want to work for me, I interview them, for sure. I have them interview a couple people on the team. But then I just, I call them. I let them sit and I wait to see how often they're going to follow up with me. Most people will follow up once, twice, maybe three times. And after that, they let it go.
Ryan Serhant:
You know how many deals I would have lost if I let it go after three follow ups? Unbelievable. So, I can't have that kind of person on my team. They got to want to be on my team more than I want them to be there, because that's the person who's going to be hungry enough to get difficult deals done for me.
Bobbi Rebell:
So much amazing information in your book and on your vlog, by the way. We didn't really talk about that. That's million-dollar listing, I didn't really realize this until you talked about it in your book, it's only on for three months of the year. So, people need to be watching your vlog.
Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, I think so. I put it out there as a way to put out a lot of the rest of my life and a lot of things that just aren't on Bravo. Bravo is real estate focused and it follows the individual deals. It's not with me in the car 24 hours a day, kind of in my thoughts and in my mindset, and that's what the blog is for.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. All right. Tell people where they can find you, follow you, find out more, get the book, all that good stuff.
Ryan Serhant:
The book just came out today, it's called Sell it Like Serhant, it's everywhere books are sold. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, you can find all the links at sellitlikeserhant.com. You can find me across all social media platforms at Ryan Serhant, and the vlog is @youtube.com/ryanserhant.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Ryan. This was great.
Ryan Serhant:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's unpack some of the things that Ryan said. Financial Grownup tip number one. I read Ryan's book twice. The reason I went back was to take notes. Now, I'm not in sales, at least not in a direct way. But I think it is important for all of us to understand how sales work, and the specific techniques that are being used so you can spot them. I joke about offense and defense, but that is important too. Because if we're being honest, who hasn't bonded with a salesperson, and then because of that felt they should, and sometimes did buy something they maybe wouldn't have bought otherwise? Always know that a good salesperson like Ryan will be in it for the long haul. And you can just push back. And even if you aren't a customer, now, you may be in the future. Also, the next best thing you can do is refer them to friends and family as potential customers. It's okay to do what's right for you, even if you feel an allegiance to the salesperson. We're all human.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Ryan talks about how he studied the most successful companies and what top executives do. Take this to a micro level and find someone that you admire and ask them if they will talk to you. It can be coffee, a meal, or going for a walk. And if you can, maybe even ask if you can shadow them for a day at work. I did this early in my career. Just observe and learn. And if they're open to it, ask a lot of questions. Most people are flattered.
Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, I am off to Orlando to FinCon and celebrating this 100-podcast milestone with some friends. I hope you guys will DM me and let me know what you want to see in the next 100 episodes. On Twitter, I am @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1. I have some big changes coming that I will reveal soon, so please subscribe and make sure you go into settings and hit auto download so you don't miss any episodes. Until then, feeling really grateful to Ryan Serhant for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
Refinery 29’s work and money vertical editor Lindsey Stanberry and her frugal husband were checking all the boxes as financial grownups. But when they had a child, the new parents found themselves scrambling to make sense of their new urge to splurge.
In Lindsey's money story you will learn:
-The financial changes that come with having children
-How to adapt a budget when financial values change
-Tips on how make career decisions while balancing a family
In Lindsey's money lesson you will learn:
-How big changes impact little everyday purchases
-Two of Lindsey's biggest financial regrets
In Lindsey's every day money tip you will learn:
-The benefits of a high-yield savings account
-The app she uses to sell her clothes and make extra cash
Bobbi and Lindsey also talk about
-Her new book Money Diaries
-What women are spending their money on right now
-The Money Diaries series updated regularly on Refinery 29
In My Take you will learn:
-Ways to save money on baby clothes
-Travel more! Ways to plan amazing trips whether you have kids or not
EPISODE LINKS
https://www.refinery29.com/
Follow Lindsey!
Instagram @lestanberry
Twitter @lestanberry
Follow Refinery 29!
Instagram @refinery29
Twitter @refinery29
Facebook @Refinery29
Check out the companies Lindsey mentioned!
Poshmark
Capital One
Trader Joes
Bank of America
Transcription
Lindsey Stanber:
He has said to me recently he would spend all the money on our kid if we needed to. But that doesn't stop him from being slightly annoyed when I pick out organic hot dogs that we will probably throw away because our son will not eat them.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
That was Refinery29 Money Diaries author Lindsey Stanberry talking about how her natural instinct to always save money took a nose dive after the birth of her son. I think a lot of new parents can relate to this, feeling like they would spend their very last penny on their kid even if things were very different before baby.
Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. We keep the show short, about 15 minutes, because you're busy, but if you have a little more time, feel free to do a little bit of binging, and if you like the show, maybe do a screen grab and share it so we can grow the podcast. And speaking of growing the podcast, big news, Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast for the Plutus Awards which celebrate excellence in money content. So thank you for all of your support.
Bobbi Rebell:
And the paperback of my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup, is coming out in October. So if you have not had a chance to read it, I hope you'll check it out, and again, share with someone you care about.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Refinery29 Money Diaries and our amazing guest, Lindsey Stanberry. Now, the book grew out of Refinery29's popular series by the same name and gives a very detailed, and I mean detailed, look of the spending habits of millennial women. The stories are jaw dropping. The reactions to them are dramatic in the comments. But I wanted to know more about Lindsey and her money diary stories so I pushed her to talk about something that she has yet to reveal, and that is money life after baby and what that does to one's money diary.
Bobbi Rebell:
She and her husband were the best of budgeters. They didn't eat out. They were champion savers. They bought an apartment in their 20s and were checking all the boxes on retirement and investing until they had the baby. And then it all went poof, well, not all poop, but life changed. Here is Lindsey Stanberry.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Lindsey Stanberry, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Lindsey Stanber:
Thanks so much for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of Money Diaries so I could not have been more excited when your book Money Diaries from Refinery29 came out. Congratulations on all the early success because it just was released, and of course, it is number one new release on Amazon. Love it.
Lindsey Stanber:
Generally awesome. Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you did this all in a very busy time in your life because not only are you married, you have a relatively young child, I think a one-year-old? Is that correct?
Lindsey Stanber:
Ike has just turned two.
Bobbi Rebell:
He just turned two. So happy birthday.
Lindsey Stanber:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
And that brings us to your money story. Do tell.
Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. So I've talked a lot of in the past about how my husband and I saved $100,000 to buy our first apartment in New York. And my husband is very frugal, and by extension, I've become more mindful of my money. Two years ago, when we had our son, we knew it was going to change our budget. We had to sell that apartment and buy a new one and start paying for child care, and we anticipated those big expenses. But I was really shocked at how my time became much more valuable than it had ever been before. And I talk about in the book this incident where my husband and I were at Trader Joe's having a fight over organic yogurt.
Lindsey Stanber:
My son is an incredibly picky eater. He has been since the moment we introduced solids. We will try everything, and we end up throwing away all that food. And it drives me absolutely crazy. And I write in the book about this experience of realizing that my time is so valuable, and I'm wiling to spend more money in ways that I never anticipated and had never before. My husband dubbed it Baby bourgeois.
Lindsey Stanber:
So it's been a weird and stressful experience for us. And I just had to kind of let go of some of that control and feel appreciative that we were so careful with our money in our 20s when we were able to just worry about ourselves.
Bobbi Rebell:
So give us an example of something that you spent money on, now that you have a child, that you never would have thought have spending money on before?
Lindsey Stanber:
People think that I'm crazy but like service fees to go to the movies. We would have never in a million years paid extra money to reserve tickets online. We would specifically go early to the box office to buy the tickets, and we would save the $2. And now, it's just like well if you want to see the movie, first of all, you're going to have to find a babysitter, and that's really expensive, and then you want to make sure you can actually get into the movie. So we're pre-buying our movie tickets now, and that $2 is just out the window.
Lindsey Stanber:
But then also stuff like we would never pick up milk from the place around the corner because it was $1 more, but now we do because I want more time with my kid. I don't want to go out in the rain. I am tired after working and writing a book and taking care of a baby. But it's also made me a lot more ambitious. I care about earning money more than I have before which surprised me.
Bobbi Rebell:
So give us an example of that.
Lindsey Stanber:
Well, I think that when you think about things like negotiating or saying yes to something, I took on this book, which is an incredible opportunity, but I did take it on top of my regular job and on top of having a kid. And I knew I was going to have to make some sacrifices in my personal life, but I did that with the idea that this would be something that would help me grow my career, and that would ultimately be good for my family and, in theory, help me earn more money in the long run.
Lindsey Stanber:
So it's a real push pull, and I think that I am more excited about opportunities, but I'm also more careful about what I say yes to.
Bobbi Rebell:
What's interesting though also is that you and your husband don't always approach spending as parents in exactly the same way. Tell us about that.
Lindsey Stanber:
He was a reluctant parent and very open about that, and I appreciate that. He said to me recently he would spend all the money on our kid if we needed to. But that doesn't stop him from being slightly annoyed when I pick out organic hot dogs that we will probably throw away because our son will not eat them. It's been a struggle for both of us to figure out how this spending is changing.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?
Lindsey Stanber:
I think people expect those big expenses. They expect that childcare will be a huge chunk of their budget, but they don't think about the small things. I joke in the book I'm never going tell you not to buy a latte, but enjoy buying that latte and saving that money when you only have you to worry about because your finances do change so significantly when you have a kid and in a good way. I'm happy to spend my money on him. I say that in the dedication to the book. It's a joy, but it does really change things, and it's really important to talk about that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Are there things that you look back on that you would have done differently?
Lindsey Stanber:
There's two things. I wish I had started investing earlier. I was always very nervous about the stock market, having been a young adult when the recession happened last time, and I have always felt really intimidated by that, and I wish we had been smarter and not sat on so much cash. And this is the thing that would have cost money, but I wish we had traveled more. It's expensive now to do it with a kid, and we could have done it cheaply and smartly. And we worked so hard in our 20s, and I'm really proud of the work we did, but I definitely wished we would have taken a few more vacations.
Bobbi Rebell:
I hear you. Traveling with kids and with a family is a lot. All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip because that is a way that people can pretty much instantly, at least, have a trickle more cash. Maybe a little extra money for their latte or maybe money to then move into other kinds of investments. Do tell.
Lindsey Stanber:
One thing that we recommend in the book is getting a high-yield savings account. I have a Bank of America account and a Capital One account and the differences in their 401Ks is crazy. Bank of America I think is like zero, zero, zero ... It's negligible. I get like 38 cents every quarter versus my Capital One savings account, which I think is like 1.85, and I have a nice little emergency fund in there and so I get a little bonus each month that I kind of consider my free money. My husband just bought some sunglasses, and I was like, "Oh, I think that some of our interest rate covered that. So don't worry about it," which is not necessarily the most responsible way to think about that interest rate, but it is nice to have that little extra bonus.
Lindsey Stanber:
We talk about side hustles in the book too, and that's a way that we saved a lot of money. So there's lots of little tweaks that you can make to find cash that can be used to buy that latte.
Bobbi Rebell:
What other tweaks do you have? Other ideas?
Lindsey Stanber:
I am such a fan of selling clothes on Poshmark. It's a little embarrassing. I'm totally addicted, and I use that money to buy new clothes. I'm a little bit more careful about my shopping these days because of said child.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you get your kids clothing then? Do you buy new or are you buying that off the websites? Does Poshmark do kids clothing? I know there's a lot of other ones for kids.
Lindsey Stanber:
I think they do. I don't ever buy cloths. I have two very doting grandmothers who dress him, and I never buy anything. There's a really fantastic kind of underground parent exchange at both Refinery and among my friends. So we do lots of hand-me-downs and trades. And I didn't buy a car seat for a long time because I used my boss's, and yeah, it's been great. And then I just hand that all off to other people. So clothing, my kid is cheap. It is free. Feeding him is not.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We're going to talk later. We're going to work on that food thing. I have some ideas for you about that.
Lindsey Stanber:
Okay.
Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about Money Diaries because this came out of a successful series that you have shepherded over at Refinery29. Tell us more about the book because what I love about this is it's really similar to my mission here at Financial Grownup. It's really about opening the door to very personal and candid stories about the reality of how people actually approach their money in different situations but so many universal themes.
Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. It was really important to me that this book, not shame the readers. We present Money Diaries without judgment. And the comment section on Money Diaries can be, at times, very judgmental. But for us, from Refinery perspective, we don't want you to feel bad. I think that there's so much ... Especially for women, there's a lot of guilt around both earning money and spending money, and I really wanted to get rid of that and to just really talk to our readers like you do, like a grown up, and not be condescending or a bully or make them feel bad because they like to buy a latte on their way to work every morning because they hate their job.
Lindsey Stanber:
So it's really thinking about how your spending impacts your life now and how it can impact your future, and that future doesn't need to be 100 years from now when you're retiring. It can be what you do next year or what you do five years from now.
Bobbi Rebell:
And what's interesting is that a lot of these stories reveal trends that you see, not only the stories in the book, but it's an ongoing living series on Refinery29.
Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. It's really interesting to see how women interact with their money and how there are things that are deeply personal. There are things that are ... We don't reveal anything about race or ethnic background in these or sexuality, but if you're a careful reader, you can pick up some clues. And so it's very interesting to see how a woman of color manages her money versus the famous intern who is getting $3,000 a month from her parents. It's fascinating-
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Which do get a lot of judgy comments to say the least.
Lindsey Stanber:
On both sides, they're getting judgy comments. So it's interesting. But then we do see trends like there's a lot of spending on self-care right now because people are really uncomfortable in this political climate, and we see couples struggling to figure out how they're going to manage their finances. A lot of women who are maintaining separate bank accounts and tracking every dollar that their partner spends. It's really interesting. I always say that personal finance is very personal, but there are definitely themes and things that we go back to again and again.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I know you're going on a book tour so I want you to give people all the information about how they can find out about that and follow you and Refinery29 on all the socials.
Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. So you can read Money Diaries daily at Refinery29. We also have an awesome Facebook group. And of course, you can follow Refinery on Instagram and Twitter, and you can find me on Twitter and Instagram as well at lestanberry and I will be doing lots of fun stories around the book tour. I'm really exited about that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you, Lindsey.
Lindsey Stanber:
Thank you so much, Bobbi. Super fun.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so think about what would be in your money diary and would you have the courage to share it publicly. Hm. Here's my take on what Lindsey had to say.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number 1. She talked about free clothing for kids. Well in addition to the places that she mentioned, which are great, especially, grandparents, parenting Facebook groups are a great way to get not just free clothing, but also toys and furniture. Be sure to join one that is hyper local because very often the givers only ask is that you come to them and pick it up in person.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number 2. Lindsey mentioned that she regretted not traveling more before kids, and I couldn't agree more. For my family if all five us go, it is a lot. I mean breakfast alone, crazy. So another challenge is that kids have different interest, especially if you have kids that are boys versus girls or are different ages, which are spread out. That's what I have. I have older step-kids that are now in college, and then I have an 11 year old.
Bobbi Rebell:
So one idea is to do smaller, one or two kid trips. You don't all have to go. And you could have one parent go and not just two. So for example, we recently went, my husband and I, with the 11 year old to Iceland, just him. Another time, my husband took the older two kids to Washington DC when my son was younger because he wouldn't have been interested. He would have been bored to tears, but it was a great time for the older kids to go and see the nation's capitol.
Bobbi Rebell:
Each time, it was three of us on a trip, which is a lot less than five if you can imagine. And usually, at that point, you can be hotel room, which makes a huge difference. And we weren't dragging kids that didn't want to be there. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do one trip at least a year or some trips with all of you, it just doesn't have to be every trip with everyone. And the more direct one-on-one time is also really special. And when you take just some, maybe it's a good time for the kids that aren't going to spend time with other relatives like grandparents or aunts and uncles.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Show notes can be found at Bobbirebell.com/podcast/lindseystanberry where we'll have all the information that she said at the end about how to follow Money Dairies and all the places that she mentioned. Be sure to [inaudible 00:16:12] me on all the socials. I am at bobbirebell1 on Instagram, bobbirebell on Twitter. Find out more about the podcast at Bobbirebell.com/Financialgrownuppodcast, and thanks to Refinery29 Money Diaries author, Lindsey Stanberry for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownups with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.
Making time for face time is the best use of time for Bring Your Human to Work author Erica Keswin. She credits her biggest business successes to making the time to connect in person-even when there is no time.
In Erica’s money story you will learn:
-How face-to-face meetings have impacted Erica's business
-Hacks that create more time in your schedule
In Erica’s money lesson you will learn:
-The benefits of being positive at work
-Strategic steps that make scheduling in person meetings easier
In Erica’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-The negative side of multitasking
-The benefits of getting to know the local Starbucks barista
Bobbi and Erica also talk about:
Groups that Eat Together Perform Better Together - Cornell University Study
In My Take you will learn:
-What phubbing is and how to avoid it
-Tips to forming real connections at work
EPISODE LINKS:
Get Erica’s new book Bring Your Human To Work!
Learn more about the Spaghetti Project!
Follow Erica!!
Instagram @ericakeswin
Twitter @Erica_Keswin
Linked In @Erica Keswin
Listen to Erica’s friend Shelley Zalis on the Financial Grownup podcast !
Transcription
Erica Keswin:
I didn't have time for this meeting, but by investing one hour, which then led to two hours, in that face to face meeting over breakfast, I not only gained a friend but a true business partner.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. You guys know I talk a lot about my walks with friends. Save money, save calories, and all the big ideas that come out of those walks. Today's guest, Bring Your Human to Work author Erica Keswin, is one of my favorite walking buddies, and one of my most motivating and inspiring friends. Just quickly want to welcome our newest listeners, and welcome back everyone else. We keep the shows to about 15 minutes because you're busy, but if you have a little more time, feel free to binge listen, and tell someone you care about to listen as well, so we can grow the show. Of course, please do all the things. Subscribe, rate, review. Do a screen grab if you can. Share it on social, and make sure to tag me so I can thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Erica Keswin. She spent years working as a consultant, partnering with top researchers, and as I personally witnessed, traveling the globe, literally, to interview the most innovative business leaders in person, and you will appreciate why that face time is priceless. IRL all the way. It matters. The result? Bring Your Human to Work: 10 Surefire Ways to Design a Workplace That's Good for People, Great for Business, and Just Might Change the World, which is endorsed by big names, including ... You ready, guys? Katie Couric, Arianna Huffington, Adam Grant, and one of my favorite authors, Charles Duhigg, who you may know as the author of The Power of Habit. This is big, guys. I'm so excited to bring you this interview. Here is Erica Keswin.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Erica Keswin. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Erica Keswin:
Thank you so much for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
I just finished reading your amazing new book, Bring Your Human to Work. It is a very well-researched book, going into depth on a number of companies from JetBlue, to Rebecca Minkoff, and you brought us a money story that has to do with the theme of Bring Your Human to Work. Tell us your money story.
Erica Keswin:
Sure. Last year, I was honored by an organization with an event called 10 Women to Watch. We had our first phone call with all 10 of us about six months before the event, and we went around and introduced ourselves in alphabetical order, and the last person to go was a woman named Shelley Zalis, founder of The Girls' Lounge, and The Female Quotient, and I know she was recently on your show as well, so it's a small world. I had heard of Shelley. I knew her name, but we had never met, and never talked on the phone. When she got done with her introduction, I remember saying to myself, "Wow. This is somebody who is very aligned on so many issues, and perspectives, and things that I think about, and I can not wait to meet her in person." What I didn't know on that call is that when she heard my introduction, she actually felt the same way.
Erica Keswin:
About two months later, I found myself in Los Angeles for a series of work meetings, and I was literally back to back, but I said to myself, "You know what? This is where Shelley lives. I'm gonna reach out, send her an email, and see if she has time to grab breakfast." I did. Long story short, the next morning, we met for breakfast, and the rest is history. She shared with me that she had that same feeling when she heard my introduction. We sat there. We were gonna meet for an hour. We each had meetings. We postponed our meetings, and we ended up there probably for close to two hours in that first meeting, and since that time, we've done work together, supported each other, become friendly. I interviewed her for my book. I've spoken at a number of her Girls' Lounges, and when I walked out of that meeting, I literally said to myself, "I didn't have time for this meeting, but by investing one hour, which then led to two hours in that face to face meeting over breakfast, I not only gained a friend, but a true business partner." It's a good reminder.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because being in person does make all the difference, especially when we spend so much time, as you say, left to our own devices. That's one of my favorite Erica catch phrases.
Erica Keswin:
Yeah. Left to our own devices, we're not connecting, and we need to be intentional. I try to meet at least one or two people in person every week. I mean, you and I will go decide ... That's one of the ways we got to know each other. We decided to go for a walk.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.
Erica Keswin:
And we didn't need to go for [inaudible 00:05:01], but we could actually go for a walk in the park around the reservoir. I know how great it is when I meet with people face to face, and I can't do it all the time, but by carving out a chunk of my week or my month to do it, it is good for me personally, but it's also been great for my business.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it also allows a space where you know, hopefully, somebody is not multitasking, because very often when we're on these work phone calls, we are distracted. When you're in person, unless you're rude and you're looking at your phone all the time, but I know you and Shelley are not, you're actually in the moment and you're focused on what's going on with that person.
Erica Keswin:
Yeah. I mean, we've all been on those calls where you say, "Erica, what do you think?" And I say, "Wait. What?" Then we all know what I was doing, and it was not honoring that relationship and being present. The technology is designed to suck us in, but again, we need to build in that intention or it won't happen, sadly.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson, then, for our listeners? Because so many of them are saying, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't have time."
Erica Keswin:
The lesson for them is to make the time, be strategic, and I know I've used this word a few times, but it's one of the most important things that I think about, which is be intentional. Look at your week. I know many, many people, every day, they'll take 30 minutes for lunch, and they'll make their doctor's appointments for themselves, or if they have kids, make them for their kids, and sit in their office, and get through their to-do lists. You can't not do that five days a week, so maybe just pick two days where you're gonna walk down the hall, or walk outside the office and meet somebody for a cup of coffee. Fit it into your schedule. All of us can look strategically at their calendar and say to themselves, "Does my calendar match my values?" If this is important to me, you can make it happen, and whether you use a paper calendar, or Google Calendar, the data will be clear, because you can look at where and how you spent your time.
Bobbi Rebell:
All kidding aside, I mean, we absolutely are friends, and we meet to walk as friends, but we have done a lot of talking about each other's businesses. I mean, your other business, the Spaghetti Project, I remember being so excited hearing about that with another friend, Caroline, on a walk. I still remember that walk, because I remember that "aha" moment when I was, "Oh my gosh. Erica is onto something really big." And it happened on one of our walks.
Erica Keswin:
No, it did. It did. The inspiration for the Spaghetti Project came out of research I was doing for the book, and I came across this study out of Cornell University by a professor named Kevin Nixon. Kevin's father was a firefighter, and when he was getting his advanced degree, he studied firefighters and studied firehouses. What he found was that the firefighters who were the most dedicated to that longstanding tradition of the firehouse meal, sitting around the table, building trust, investing in relationships, it was highly correlated with performance, meaning they saved more lives. That was a real goosebump moment for me, and I'm not out there saying we all need to eat together all the time. I know you and I decided to walk together, but there is a correlation between investing in connection and your own personal bottom line, and that of your business.
Bobbi Rebell:
That gives me the perfect intro to your everyday money tip, because that has to do with connecting with the people that we interact with in our daily lives.
Erica Keswin:
Every day, I go into my local Starbucks, and I got to know my local barista. Her name is Ashley Peterson.
Bobbi Rebell:
Featured in your book.
Erica Keswin:
Yup. She's featured in my book, and we developed a relationship over time. She took an interest in me. This was before the app, but she would have my drink ready when she saw me walking in. She got to know my kids. I got to know her personal story. What that led to was that she really would look out for me. Again, whether it was having my drink ready, if she could see the look in my face when I was late for school.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're never late, Erica. You?
Erica Keswin:
Yeah. I am pretty on time to early, but you never know. One of your kids has a tantrum in the morning, it could make you late. But then something so amazing and inspirational happened, again, based on this authentic connection that I had with Ashley. Ashley noticed that one of my kids, my daughter Caroline, developed this taste for their pumpkin scones, which only come out around ... They're seasonal, so they only have them around Halloween. But by November, they were gone. I'll give you only a piece of the story, because you'll read it in the book, but long story short, it's November 4th, Caroline had had her last pumpkin scone. We went by Starbucks. I got my coffee, but there was nothing else to get, and we kept walking to school.
Erica Keswin:
The next thing you know, I hear Ashley calling my name, literally running down Broadway, and I think I'd left my wallet or something in the store, given, again, this was before I bought my drink on the Starbucks app. She ran over, and was breathing so heavy, and she said, "Caroline, I know we're out of pumpkin scones, but now it's November into December and it's Christmas time, and we just got our amazing gingerbread into the store. I think it's something that you might like." It made my day. It made my daughter's day. I have to say, she didn't love gingerbread, especially as much as the pumpkin, but it was this moment for me where I thought, "Wow." This was so unbelievable. It was so human, and she did it because she looked out for me, and we had been mutually building that relationship over time. That became the inspiration for Bring Your Human to Work, because that is what Ashley did in that moment.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Let's talk more about Bring Your Human to Work. I think it was Do Something, where you talk a lot about the desk strategy, and how that office is set up, because the space that we work in also has a big impact on productivity and therefore the success of a company, and the success of you as an employee.
Erica Keswin:
Yes. 100%. One of the chapters in the book is called Space Matters, and what I would say to your audience is that I'm not talking necessarily that you have to go out and spend millions and millions of dollars to have the fanciest space and necessarily look like Google or Facebook. I'm talking about you can think strategically about your space, how people interact, and it doesn't have to cost anything, or doesn't have to cost much. Their phrase, they have something called "the reaping," which is a term named after Games of Thrones, which I'll admit I have not seen the show, but they come in every six months, and everybody knows the day before when the reaping is going to happen, and you come in, and you pick out of a hat, and the first person that picks gets to decide where he or she wants to sit, and then they go from there. One of the interesting things that I've seen in many companies is that if you have a startup, everybody does everything.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Erica Keswin:
Right? I mean, you and I both know. We're running our own small business. We do everything. But then as you grow and you scale, it is very natural to become more siloed. All of a sudden, if you have 15 people in your company and you're all together all the time, that feels very different than when you're at 100 people or 500 people. However, the more people can talk to each other across functions, it's better for business. Your space impacts performance when you're able to mix up where people sit and how they move around the space, and bump into each other. It not only is good for people to build those connections, but it has a real impact on your business.
Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. So excited. The book is finally coming out after so much work I know you've put into it. I'm excited for everyone to finally get to read it. Tell us more.
Erica Keswin:
Great. Yeah. The book comes out on September 25. It's available for pre-order now on Amazon. Just look up Bring Your Human to Work, and if you want to find me, my website is EricaKeswin.com, E-R-I-C-A, K-E-S as in Sam, W-I-N. If you want to learn more about the Spaghetti Project, it's SpaghettiProject.com. You can find me on Instagram, @EricaKeswin, and on Twitter, @Erica_Keswin.
Bobbi Rebell:
Erica, this has been so wonderful and so special, so thank you for joining us.
Erica Keswin:
Thank you for having me. It was great.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Listening to Erica, I feel like I got a whole new perspective on how people interact with each other, not only in person, but also in the way that we communicate through technology. One of those is Financial Grownup tip number one. One of Erica's observations that we didn't get to talk about was something called "fubbing," or phone snubbing. It's when you look at someone directly in the eye, but at the same time, you're texting on your phone. It is a skill that I personally don't have, but it's a thing apparently. Don't do it, even if you do have that skill. As you will read in Erica's book, research has shown this kind of multitasking is not just rude, it's bad for business. Read more in her book.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Bring Your Human to Work, as Erica says, but don't leave it at the office. Keep it with you in life. In other words, bring your human to life too, and take a lot of these lessons in addition to work, to your relationships outside of work. For example, next time you are talking to a salesperson or a waiter, or say, just ordering coffee, address the person by name, and look them in the eye. They're gonna appreciate it. It will likely get you better service and make for a better experience for both of you, and as a bonus, sometimes you'll get special treatment, as Erica and her daughter did with Ashley from Starbucks.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for your support. Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast at the [inaudible 00:14:39] awards, which recognizes excellence in money-related content creation. I wrote a pretty long post on it on Instagram, so follow me on Instagram, and check it out for some interesting background on me, and on the Financial Grownup Podcast, and how I got here. I am @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, @BobbiRebell on Twitter, and learn more about the podcast at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. Don't forget to check out Erica Keswin's new book, Bring Your Human to Work, great ideas for everyone to make their work and their life a little more human, and of course, thanks to Erica for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
After appearing on Shark Tank, The Sole Mates’ Becca Brown and Monica Ferguson found their best business support came not from the sharks but from a resource that would become key to their growing success.
In The Sole Mates money story you will learn:
-New details about their Shark Tank experience- including the awkward conversations they had with well-meaning friends before their episode aired
-What happened after their appearance as they became part of the Shark Tank Alumni group
-The role the private Shark Tank Alumni group plays in their current business strategy
-Specific examples of business opportunities that have come their way from being part of this exclusive group
-Details of how they were able to get a major national retail deal that elevated their business
-How they got involved with the NFL
In The Sole Mates money lesson you will learn:
-Specific ways to find entrepreneur groups that fit your business needs
-Strategies to work to grow organic networks
In the Sole Mates every day money tip you will learn:
-Which luxury shoe brands best retail their value
-How to make sure you don’t lower the value of shoes you intend to sell
-The best strategy and what to look for when buying pre-owned shoes
Bobbi and the Sole Mates also talk about
-The impact of the national CVS deal on their business
-Other ways they leveraged their Shark Tank experience
-The human element to big brands
In My Take you will learn:
-My strategies for buying gently work handbags and clothing
-How to apply re-sale strategies beyond shoes, to things like wedding dresses
EPISODE LINKS
thesolemates.com
Follow The Sole Mates!
Instagram @thesolemates
Twitter @thesolemates
Facebook The Sole Mates
Shark Tank
CVS
Amazon.com
Facebook.com
Good Morning America
The View
The NFL
THEREALREAL.COM
Christian Louboutin
Gucci
Heidi Klum
Vera Wang
Oscar De La Renta
Here is an article from one of my favorite websites, The Knot, on used wedding dresses
https://www.theknot.com/content/used-wedding-dresses-buy-sell-online
Transcription
Becca Brown:
If someone says, "Hey, this person is a crook. Don't work with them," It's a warning to all of us, like, "Oh, I just got a similar call. Everybody be on warning. Don't take these calls."
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. We all need someone in our corner. Actually, we need as many people as possible in our corner. And for entrepreneurs, connections are everything, which is part of the appeal of the show Shark Tank. A deal with one of the sharks, in addition to money of course, opens doors. But a lot happens also after the cameras stop rolling that we don't hear about. More about that from our guest in a minute. You might be surprised.
Bobbi Rebell:
But first, we have some exciting news to share. Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast from the Plutus Awards, which celebrate money-related content. And this October my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup, will be coming out in paperback. I hope you pick up a copy, if you have not already. And maybe tell me what you think, and send over some ideas for another book.
Bobbi Rebell:
Back to Shark Tank and our guests, those Solemates co-founders, Becca Brown and Monica Fergusen. They left their jobs at Goldman Sachs to start a company making heel protectors under the brand Solemates, and their products have become huge hits among celebrities. Names like Oprah and her buddy, Gail King, and countless women, including myself. As you will hear, some men as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
So they went on Shark Tank and they got a deal, but the deal actually didn't happen. However, a lot of maybe bigger things, longterm, long "tail", I guess we call it. Big things happened afterwards in a way that I had no idea even existed. Here are the co-founders of Solemates, Becca Brown and Monica Fergusen. Hey, Becca Brown and Monica Fergusen, you guys are financial grownups. Welcome to the podcast.
Becca Brown:
Thanks.
Monica Fergusen:
Thanks, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
You are the names behind the Solemates, which started with heel protectors, and now have a whole line of many, many things to help us keep our shoes in good shape and weather all kinds of hazards, like weddings. So congratulations on the success of Solemates.
Monica Fergusen:
Thank you, thank you, thank you. You know, we like to say that our goal is to make you more comfortable in your own shoes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love that, and so does Oprah, by the way. You guys have got amazing press, so many big fans. You also got a lot of press because you were on Shark Tank, where you actually got a deal, after the fact though. And you've talked about this. The deal did not happen for various reasons. But the most interesting thing, I think, that you're going to talk about in your money story is what happens after. Tell us your money story.
Becca Brown:
Yeah, well, thanks for having us, Bobbi. This is Becca speaking. So obviously being on Shark Tank was an amazing experience. We were so thrilled to have that opportunity. But honestly, one of the biggest pleasant surprises to doing the show was what happened afterwards, which is we became part of this incredible, dynamic group of Shark Tank alumni companies; other companies that have been on the show. We are all part of this private Facebook group, and it has been literally the best resource for us to continue growing our business because it's like-minded individuals with, a lot of times, product-based businesses that are growing their companies. And we all are going through the same growth trajectories and sharing ideas and feedback and resources and it's been such an amazing resource for us.
Monica Fergusen:
Every time we would tell someone about what we did, the response was, "Oh, that sounds like something that should be on Shark Tank." And before you go on the show, you can't tell anyone you're going on the show, so it was a very frustrating time for us-
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so you knew ... How far in advance before you actually ... first of all, before the taping, and then before it aired ... did you know? How long were you this keeping the secret?
Monica Fergusen:
Well, it was probably only a tight, tight, tight secret for a few months. The application process is really long and really from the time you start applying, you're pretty tight lipped about it because there's no upside in telling people what you're trying to get on. So it was a lot of forced smile responses of like, "Oh, what a great idea. We had not ever considered that"
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. So now you have this alumni group. Tell us more about the kinds of discussions and the kinds of advice that you've gotten from that and how has that helped your business?
Monica Fergusen:
The physical manufacturer of goods and the sale of goods comes with it a really unique set of problems including sourcing, including, web development, including your relationship with Amazon, including your PR, your social media, your relationship with influencers and traditional media, your relationship with employees. What kind of benefits do you set up? Do you have your own warehousing? Do you outsource it? There's so many things that come with every part of the business that to date we've kind of operated in a little bit of a vacuum where we leveraged them for everything daily. Being on the show it's a really cool and unique experience and I feel like it's also very much like a reflection of our culture right now, so in 25 years people will have no idea what we're talking about and Shark Tank is that right now and so it's cool to be a part of something that's so like of the moment culturally, which has also helped us grow our business in really unexpected and cool ways.
Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about the unexpected and cool ways the business has grown?
Becca Brown:
Well right after airing, we actually reached out to a couple of big mass retailers. CVS Pharmacies was one of them and the timing was perfect. CVS happened to be looking into building out a whole new category around fashion solutions and accessories and we had just had this massive exposure being on Shark Tank and so the buyer was willing to meet with us and literally like a month after Shark Tank, we went up to Woonsock at Rhode Island and met with the buyer and ended up launching in 5000 retail CVS pharmacies a few months later.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Did you go into the Facebook group and tell them about this and what was the reaction?
Becca Brown:
No, it's not really a place where you go and brag. Okay, so if I post a query today saying, "Hey, does anybody happen to know somebody that is working in media covering women's shoes?" Chances are within an hour I would have several responses like, "Oh, I know this person. I know that person."
Monica Fergusen:
Right. It's really, has anyone had this problem or has anyone met this person who's so helpful? It's asking questions and sharing a best practice. So like, "Hey, do you know if you contact Amazon on Sundays and you get the help desk in Ireland, there are much more likely to help your brand do X, Y, and Z if you get, I will not name a country, country on another day, hang up. Because like if [inaudible 00:07:09]
Becca Brown:
And I want to add to that too because I used to rent zip cars and that the sort of ethos of Zip cars was the community takes care of itself and you take care of the car and you return it with gas so that the next person can use the car. And I feel like our Shark Tank group carries that same sort of ethos. We take care of each other. We're looking out for one another. If someone says, "Hey, this person is a crook, don't work with them." It's a warning to all of us. Like, "Oh, I just got a similar call. Everybody beyond warning don't take these calls." And so we all are only as good as what we contribute and we are genuinely wanting to help one another.
Bobbi Rebell:
Can you give me an example of wind that happened for you guys or for someone else in the Shark Tank alumni Facebook group that may not have happened without that network?
Becca Brown:
Good morning America and the television show The View. They do these really cool segments that are kind of like flash sales and on The View it's called view your deal and one of the. Actually two of the other Sharks Tank companies in our group have done view your deal before and they were so kind to introduce us to the group that runs that. So we did it in July.
Monica Fergusen:
And it was a great revenue generator and then more recently someone asked, anyone have products that would be interesting for NFL players in their fall training. So we're like, you know, we have products that we market for women but the product certainly work for men in hot pink packaging with high yield on it. If they're open to it, we're open to it and the managers looked at our product line and were like, "These products are amazing."
Monica Fergusen:
And so a 110 NFL players have been using our blister blocker and antibacterial spray as a result of some of the Shark Tank group The Newson sports managers who are looking for products for gift bags and looking to create relationships between celebrities and product companies and get nothing from it. Like the people in the group get, there no economic gain for them. It's more people they know have been put together with other people they know and that kind of goodwill you realize as you get older. It doesn't exist in that many places in the world people are often looking like, what can I get out of this? Or I can introduce you but like what's my take? And that is definitely not in line with the spirit of the Shark Tank group.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from that?
Becca Brown:
I think a lot of entrepreneurs, if they make a leap to start off their own business, they've come from a company where there's a lot of infrastructure, a lot of resources that you may have taken for granted and when you venture out on your own, as Monica touched on, it's very isolating and I think it's very important as soon as possible to start building a really strong organic network that is going to help you grow your business. And so obviously not everybody is going to be able to be part of the Shark Tank alumni group, but I mean looking at other entrepreneurs groups in your area, leveraging like the Chamber of Commerce, leveraging the small business administration. I think looking at your alumni network, a lot of times alumni networks do have an entrepreneur focus. There's like a sub network and it just can be so much more helpful to have that kind of a focus network because everybody's kind of in it to help one another, but also to expand and grow their businesses.
Bobbi Rebell:
You guys brought a fantastic shoe themed everyday money tip, do you tell?
Monica Fergusen:
Yes. So we're in the business of shoes and we are both appreciators and to some to be collectors of nice shoes. Not all high heels but many high heels, but something I think people should take in mind when they are considering a purchase of new shoes is that sometimes the more you spend, the more you can get back. And if you look at the success of the secondary market, the used clothing market for shoes, it's thriving, but in particular Christian Louboutin and Gucci are two brands that stick out as having the strongest bid for their gently used shoes. If you spend a thousand dollars, God bless you on a pair of shoes, the real real Mike Compu is several hundred dollars when you sell it again.
Bobbi Rebell:
What do you mean by Compu?
Monica Fergusen:
I mean they will have someone buy from you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Monica Fergusen:
To make it simple. It's $500. So your net cost on that shoe is only $500. Whereas a lot of other designers that are not quite as high don't have a strong secondary bid. So you're unlikely to recoup any cash when you try to sell them. If you try to sell them, but Christian Louboutin and Gucci in particular, the real real has reported have done phenomenally
Bobbi Rebell:
So interesting. What about the fact that they are worn a little bit? Can you get them resoled? How does that affect the value, if you like with the Christian Louboutin, those are the shoes. Just so people know. I personally, by the way don't own any, but maybe some day they have the red bottoms, so what happens if you've worn it? Can you get them sort of resold? Because I resell a lot of shoes sometimes if I like them. Does that hurt the value? If you then put on new soles, can you paint them red? Does it matter?
Monica Fergusen:
It actually hurt the value. Done something like put on a new sole. They want the shoe to be in pretty good condition. I don't want to plug my own product too, but using things like a heel protector is a great start because the damaged heel-
Bobbi Rebell:
Which you should do anyway, whether you're going to sell it or not?
Monica Fergusen:
Well absolutely, but a damaged heel really can't be fixed. So you wear a little heel protector, keeping that heel in perfect condition, therefore it's so much easier to sell it. As someone who sells a lot of shoes, I can attest the lifetime value of the heel protector exceeds its retail value because it's a gold age-
Bobbi Rebell:
Well how much is, I mean they're not expensive. How much is a heel protector?
Monica Fergusen:
$10.
Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.
Monica Fergusen:
And that $10 is probably generated hundreds of dollars in resale for me on my shoes.
Bobbi Rebell:
What about buying shoes secondhand? What do people need to know there, what should they look for? Any tips?
Monica Fergusen:
So it's actually great to buy a shoe secondhand. And I have no economic interest in the real real, but I'm a big fan of theirs.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, I've sold stuff fair. They're great.
Monica Fergusen:
Yeah. But you can feel comfortable buying stuff from them too because they do have a really sharp guy and discipline and what they'll accept and they'll take anything back for them. I mean they'll let you know before you buy it, if it's final sale, but for the most part things are returnable.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk a little bit about Solemates. So what's going on with you guys? You're everywhere these days.
Monica Fergusen:
We're trying, we're trying. I mean CVS has been a great boon for our business and brought us in so many new customers and such great exposure and it's also been really fun to meet the brands that were sold within CVS. I mean it's more, again, more like-minded people, non Shark Tank brands. But we reached out to the other brands that were sold with just to introduce ourselves. A lot of them are based in our area, so we've been able to actually get together and have coffee. I think people sometimes forget there's a human element to everything. And so these massive brands that have names are intimidating because they've got Heidi Klum on their packaging, but they're run by real people that have real jobs and do a lot of the same things that we do.
Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us more about where people can find you and keep up with all the new products that you guys will be putting out?
Monica Fergusen:
Yeah, so we're @thesolemates on Instagram and twitter and Facebook and our website is thesolemates.com where we're sort of up to date with all of our retailers and all of our products were sold at CVS, DSW, David's bridal, Von Mar, about a thousand independence all listed on our website. Always changing, always, hopefully, always growing our website and Amazon.
Bobbi Rebell:
Great. This has been wonderful. Thank you so much.
Monica Fergusen:
Bobbi. Thank you so much-
Becca Brown:
Thank you Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Not your typical everyday money tip, but personally I kind of loved it. There's nothing wrong with having fantastic shoes. If you can get them at a huge discount, barely worn even better, but know to buy. Financial Grownup tip Number one. So the same idea goes for other things that you may not think you can afford or want to spend big money on, but if you buy gently used ones, maybe they do fit into your mindset. For most of us, it's really about getting past that psychological barrier, whether it's the idea of buying something that has been gently worn or just the idea of owning something that is so expensive. Even if you didn't pay the original retail price, so it's important to look for niche sites that specialize in what you want.
Bobbi Rebell:
The Real, real that Monica and Becca referenced is luxury, especially shoes and handbags, but you can also look, for example, for wedding dresses, so according to The Knot a used wedding dress in great condition can sell for 50% of the retail price. Just as is the case with shoes. Some designer names like Vera Wang and Oscar De La Renta will get a higher percentage. So if you want to go really high end and you know you're going to sell your dress after your wedding, know what you're buying so you know what you're selling and you can maybe choose a designer assuming that you liked that designer because you're going to be of course wearing the dress, which is the most important thing, but maybe if you're selecting between two, select a designer that will have the higher resale value. I'm going to leave a link to The Knot with some websites that you can check out.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you want to know more, including or to possibly even rent a wedding dress, the show notes that will have all this information are @bobbirebell.com/podcast/the soul mates. Financial Grownup. Tip number two, turn lemons into lemonade like the ladies did. Their deal fell through, but in the end, Monica and Becca leverage the Shark Tank experience and grew their business from the show anyway. Setbacks are only that and while they are a mum about why exactly the deal didn't happen ultimately my sense is that it just didn't work for both parties when it came down to it and that's okay. No deal is better than the wrong deal and that's a great lesson from Becca and Monica.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright everyone. Please be in touch DM me on all the socials. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, Bobbirebell on twitter, and sign up for our newsletter@Bobbirebell.com and thank you for a great story to Becca and Monica. So much we didn't know about Shark Tank and for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.
Fearless financial independence was a lesson superstar entrepreneur and Kabbage Co-founder and COO Kathryn Petralia learned early on from her parents. Now she is using those skills to not only build her company but to instill strong family and financial values in her own kids.
In Kathryn’s money story you will learn:
-How her parent's divorce impacted the way she understood money
-Not to dwell on past mistakes
-Her philosophy on financial independence
In Kathryn’s money lesson you will learn:
-How she's teaching her children financial literacy
-A quick lesson in small business loans and how to get them
In Kathryn’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-The open secret about getting discounts on AirBNB
-Examples where she used the technique to rent homes for less than AirBNB
Bobbi and Kathryn also talk about:
Forbes 100 Most Powerful Women of 2017
AirBNB
EPISODE LINKS:
Follow Kathryn!!
Instagram @Kabbageinc
Twitter @KabbageInc
Learn more about Kabbage at https://www.kabbage.com/
Learn more about how to teach your kids financial literacy here:
https://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/my-money/articles/2017-04-04/how-to-raise-financially-literate-kids
Transcription
Kathryn:
We went to the grocery store and as we were walking out, I dropped the gallon of milk and it broke open and all the milk was spilled. And she started to cry and she was really upset because she didn't have enough money to get another gallon of milk.
Bobbi:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of how to be a financial grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this!
Bobbi:
Hey Financial Grownup friends. We all have memories of childhood that stay with us forever. As you heard with our remarkable guest who you'll get to know, Kabbage co-founder, Kathryn Petralia. In her case, literally her mom, crying over spilled milk; Kathryn never wanted to be in that position and one might argue that that moment, that defining moment and the realization that came from it, was her financial grownup moment.
Bobbi:
Welcome to all of you. So glad you can spend the time with us. We value that time so we keep the Podcast short; about 15 minutes. But if you have more time, feel free to binge. And if you like it, please share with a friend and don't forget to subscribe. New thing I learned recently: take a screenshot, share it on social media, and tag me so I can thank you. The show is free and if you feel it's giving you value, share it with someone that you think would enjoy it as well. Let's get to Kathryn's story. Stay to the end, by the way. Her everyday money tip is going to save you hundreds of dollars, if not more, on your next vacation. I'm serious. This is a really good one. Here is Kathryn Petralia.
Bobbi:
Hey, Kathryn Petralia. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the Podcast!
Kathryn:
Thanks so much for having me.
Bobbi:
Congratulations on all the success of your venture, Kabbage. Tell us a little more about it.
Kathryn:
Kabbage is a data and technology platform that enables realtime lending to small businesses. We've deployed over five billion dollars to 150 000 small businesses in the United States.
Bobbi:
Wow. And by the way, just so our listeners know, you're a big deal. You were named recently in the Forbes 100 Most Powerful Women of 2017, along with some peers like Oprah and Sheryl Sandberg, so congratulations on that.
Kathryn:
Oh, thanks a lot. I was really shocked by that, frankly. I'm super honored to be part of that crowd.
Bobbi:
Well, I think as more people get to know you and all that you've accomplished, I think people will not be at all surprised. And on that note, I wanna hear your money story because it has to do with your childhood and the framework that set you up to have this drive to make sure that you were successful in business and in your family as well. Tell us your story.
Kathryn:
Well, when I was about six years old my parents had recently divorced and my mom was struggling to make ends meet because she was getting her PhD and didn't wanna take alimony or child support that the court didn't order; this was in 1976, so that was a thing back then. And so things were really tight for her financially and we went to the grocery store and as we were walking out, I dropped the gallon of milk and it broke open and all the milk was spilled and she started to cry. She was really upset because she didn't have enough money to get another gallon of milk. That just had a really big impact on me, you know, at that time and I've remembered that story for many years. What's funny is my mom doesn't remember it anymore.
Bobbi:
Oh my goodness! It's so interesting always looking back the things that make an impact on a child and it just becomes part of the everyday fabric of life for adults. What else do you remember about that period of time in your life, in terms of your mom and what was going on with her? Did you guys have discussions about it? Did that incident open up any kind of dialogue about money? Or was she always trying to put on a brave face? Because it sounds like she was a really strong woman.
Kathryn:
Well, you know, she was always very transparent with me about everything, so it's not like she tried to hide it from me. She certainly didn't want me to be stressed about money, so it wasn't like she was saying to me, "Oh, we only have $14 this week," or whatever. But if I asked for something, she was really honest about, "Well, we can't really afford that now. Maybe we can do that later." I've lived with both my parents, so back and forth, so I had these two totally different experiences.
Bobbi:
Oh tell me more about that.
Kathryn:
Well my father's an attorney, and so he had obviously more money. He had a job; he wasn't working part-time. And so I was able to get things that I wanted and needed from my father and I was able to protect my mom from those requests, I think ... I learned a little bit about protecting my parents back then.
Bobbi:
Yeah. It sounds like you were taking on a lot of financial ... I don't know if it's decisions, but you were certainly thinking about money at an early age.
Kathryn:
Absolutely.
Bobbi:
Can you expand on that?
Kathryn:
I guess I just knew that there were different ways that people lived. So if I had only been in my dad's house all the time, then I think it was really useful to me to understand that not everybody has everything they want and some people really have to struggle to get by just to pay their rent and just to buy groceries. And I think that was a valuable lesson for me.
Bobbi:
Interesting. If you were able to see two ... You basically grew up almost in two different socio-economic levels in that you had to see both sides of the story.
Kathryn:
That's exactly right. But not forever. I mean, my mom got her PhD and married a professor and so I think everything was a lot more the same by the time I was 11 or 12. But certainly there was a period of time where things were different.
Bobbi:
Tell me more about your day-to-day life then with your mom and your dad, how it differed financially.
Kathryn:
I could ask my dad for things or I could ask to go out to eat or I could ask for a toy. I really didn't ask for a lot of stuff, anyway. But with my mom I was more careful and I knew that it would be a treat to go to Dairy Queen and get a Dilly Bar, which is like the D since back then. She wanted that too, so I picked the things that she could treat me to so that she would feel good to.
Bobbi:
Looking back, it's interesting because in many divorce cases you hear that one party wouldn't pay the other one, or something was going on, but your mother, it sounds like proactively did not wanna take child support or alimony. What's your sense ... Is that something you've ever talked to her about? Because it certainly would've made a lot of those times easier.
Kathryn:
Well, from her perspective it was her decision to leave the marriage and so from her perspective he didn't owe her any of that. In fact, the court actually wouldn't let my father not pay her, so she gave him the money back and she paid income taxes on it, I mean, because she's just a very stand-up kind of person, I guess. And she wanted to make her own way and she didn't feel like it needed to be his problem. So I think I've picked up on some of those tendencies from her, too. But thing's were different in the '70s.
Bobbi:
In what way did you pick up on those tendencies?
Kathryn:
Just to not expect things from people. To know that I have to make my own way and to not rely on other people to get what I need.
Bobbi:
You've always been fiercely independent it sounds like, at least certainly in terms of your financial drive and your ... You've got a lot of ... Like, look at what you've accomplished. You've done a lot and you're still pretty young.
Kathryn:
I don't feel that way now, but I mean ... I could tell you that my knees hurt when I stand up, when I get off the floor with the baby. But you think the independence is driving. I think it does drive me maybe to do more than I would otherwise and to not take something from someone and to try to get it myself. But sometimes that works against you, so if I really need for something, like this weekend my husband's gonna be out of town and he's at home with our two kids and I really would make my life easier if I had somebody come and watch our baby for a couple of hours so I could do something with the older child. But I'm probably not gonna do that. I'm probably gonna just try to get it all done myself and nobody's gonna have a great experience because I'm not asking for help, so I think there's a downside to that, too.
Bobbi:
I think we've all been there. So tell me, what's the lesson for our listeners from this? Because there's a lot of takeaways. It's very interesting and I really appreciate you sharing this with us.
Kathryn:
Well, I think because I went through some financial uncertainty as a child, it means that I know that people can get out of it. So I've never really been afraid of financial instability because I know that it's possible to make it through. I got married really young, right out of college, and my husband and I moved to Atlanta. We didn't have jobs or even prospects for jobs. I wasn't worried about it at all. We just figured it out, we got some jobs; I think I learned that from my mom. My husband's been a stay-at-home parent for 18 years since our 18 year old was born, and so you have to make a lot of sacrifices for that too to be the only one working.
Kathryn:
It's a little different as a woman, especially 18 years ago, being a stay-at-home dad wasn't a thing as much back then as it is now. But when we started Kabbage 10 years ago, we went without any income at all for a year and for way less income than we'd had for a long time for a couple years after that. And kudos to my husband for sticking it out, but I wanted to make sure ... One thing I wanted to be really careful about was that our eight year old at the time didn't feel any kind of stress from that. He knew what was going on and he knew that things were a little bit different around the house, but he wasn't worried that he wasn't gonna be able to eat dinner that night. And it was important for me to protect him from that.
Bobbi:
When you look back, do you feel like you're protecting him in reaction to the fact that you were not as protected as a child.
Kathryn:
What I've done is we have that same level of transparency that my mom had with me, and really my dad, too, frankly, about finances. So he knew exactly where things stood, but if we were worried about anything like were we gonna have enough money to pay for his college; we didn't talk about those things with him, if that makes sense.
Bobbi:
Right. You're not worrying him about big-picture stuff but you're talking about the day-to-day stuff.
Kathryn:
Right. And even since then, he had ... I got him a checking account when he was 10 and he's had his own debit card. So he buys his own toiletries today with the money that we give him so that he's having to make decisions about what to buy. That's also been important to us.
Bobbi:
Which is good, because you're making him into a financial grownup, which is amazing!
Kathryn:
I would tell you: sometimes I think he doesn't make very good decisions, but he'll learn.
Bobbi:
Look: I always say at the end of every episode, "We're getting closer." Because it's always a process. Right? We're never fully grown up.
Bobbi:
So I wanna hear your everyday money tip, because this was one. We were talking beforehand coming up with one and you came up with this and it's brilliant. I've never heard this before. Go for it.
Kathryn:
Well, my husband loves to travel. Vacations are important for him. But we couldn't do that for a couple of years while we were starting Kabbage. AirBNB was just becoming popular I would say, maybe what, seven or eight years ago. But what we've learned in the last couple of years is that when you find a listing that you really like on AirBNB, sometimes you can figure out that it's actually managed by a property management company and they have other properties as well. And you can find their website you can save a ton of money by going directly to the property managers as opposed to going through AirBNB, and my apologies to AirBNB for telling you this hack.
Bobbi:
Well, they'll understand. Because also it brings you to AirBNB to even check it out to begin with; I think they'll be okay. Do you have any example? Do you remember any trip that you took where you did this?
Kathryn:
I have one I'm just about take where I did this!
Bobbi:
Awesome!
Kathryn:
I gotta travel to California for work and my husband and baby are coming with me and so he found a property and I noticed that it said it was offered by a particular company. We went directly to the site and saved like $600.
Bobbi:
Wow. That's awesome. $600 on how much? On a week or something?
Kathryn:
Five days.
Bobbi:
Awesome. Alright. You're definitely the money expert here. I wanna hear more about Kabbage, because it seems like you're disrupting an area that was really needing to ... It's sort of an open niche between the small businesses needs that ... It's like bigger than a personal loan, but not quite a full medium sized business loan. Tell us more about what Kabbage does and what's unique about it that's so disruptive and that's getting so much attention. And frankly I've been reading some really large numbers in terms of valuation, Kathryn. I know you haven't disclosed all of them but there's a B in front of some of these numbers, my friends.
Kathryn:
There is a B.
Bobbi:
B as in billion.
Kathryn:
US dollars. So, yeah, we've certainly grown a lot. And I think we've been the fortunate beneficiaries of access to realtime data. Our business couldn't have existed 10 years ago the way it does today because the data wasn't available for us to give our customers the experience that we give them. We can actually ... A small business owner who comes to our site can get through the entire application and have actual money in their account in less than 10 minutes. The average is like seven or eight minutes.
Bobbi:
Wow.
Kathryn:
So businesses need capital, but they also need time. Small business owners are running all over the place. They're managing their families, they're managing their businesses, they're doing all kinds of financial things that they probably weren't trained to do and maybe even don't like doing. And so we try to make this as painless as possible for them and really transparent so you're not wondering for days and weeks and months, are they really gonna get that loan and what did that loan officer think.
Kathryn:
That's a big part of the challenge today is that most small business loans are a very manual, time-consuming process. So businesses looking for less than a quarter of a million dollars from a bank? The banks have a hard time doing that cost effectively, so they generally don't even make those loans. And I think that's really the reason our business is able to exist because we could cost-effectively using technology and automation. We can cost-effectively serve those small businesses.
Bobbi:
How did you first come up with this idea?
Kathryn:
My co-founder Rob had the idea because he was working with another company that was using a recently launched Ebay API. They gave third parties access to seller and transaction level data. All the data was authorized. You know, the customer's authorize Ebay or QuickBooks or can't even process where to share the data with us, so they know that we're getting it. But he thought, "Wow. Wouldn't it be interesting to use that data to make a small business lending decision about that business that sells on Ebay?"
Kathryn:
And my background was in FinTech, which wasn't called that then, but that's what it was. So he called me up and said, "Hey, what do you think about this idea?" We had worked together previously and I thought, "Wow, that's really cool." I love that you could use data in that way and consumer lending's been automated since the '90s. But the small business funders hadn't already picked up on that, apparently. We didn't really realize that.
Bobbi:
So it's an underserved market?
Kathryn:
Absolutely. It was an underserved market and it remains underserved. It wasn't because of the financial crisis that it was underserved, but it's always been that way.
Bobbi:
Well I'm glad that you are now helping out in that area. Tell us where people can learn more about you and about Kabbage.
Kathryn:
I'm not a huge social media person. I have the best Twitter handle ever that I don't use well and that's Kabbage; @Kabbage. And you can find out more about Kabbage at www.Kabbage.com and it's Kabbage with K. Although, if you use Cabbage with a C, then you'll find us there, too. We originally named it Kabbage with a K because it was cheaper to get that domain. It was like $1200 as opposed to $75 000 for Cabbage with C. But-
Bobbi:
Oh, wow.
Kathryn:
... we got the Cabbage with the C recently a lot cheaper, so we're excited now we have both. And you can find out more about me on LinkedIn; you can connect with me there. I'm not a huge social media user, but you can always find me on LinkedIn.
Bobbi:
Awesome. Thank you so much!
Kathryn:
Thank you!
Bobbi:
Hey friends. Here is my take on what Kathryn had to say. Financial grownup tip number one: don't be too hard on yourself. Kathryn remembers dropping the milk and her mom crying so vividly. But her mom didn't even remember it. Move forward, don't dwell on past mistakes. Financial grownup tip number two: educating your kids about money doesn't mean you have to tell them everything. It's more than okay to protect them from the scary stuff before they need to know or if it's not age-appropriate. Even if they may never need to know the details of your financial life, it doesn't have to be transparent. Kids can learn about money without knowing everything going on with your family finances. You can just say no to a request for something without saying that you can't afford it. You can just say, "We're not buying it."
Bobbi:
Alright my friends. I am curious. What money lessons did your parents teach you growing up that you remember? Connect with my on social and DM me your thoughts. In Instagram, I am @Bobbirebell1, on Twitter @Bobbirebell, and on Facebook, @Bobbirebell. Learn more about the show at www.bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. And the show notes are at www.bobbirebell.com/podcast/kathrynpetralia. And while you're there, sign up for the newsletter. And thanks to Kathryn for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Serial Entrepreneur Peter Shankman, who also hosts the Faster than Normal podcast and wrote a book by the same name, talks about taking calculated risks like skydiving, business strategies that have taken his side hustles into massive businesses like HARO, and the choices he’s made to build the life he not only wanted, but needed.
In Peter’s money story you will learn:
-The type of risks to take in order to grow a business
-"Spending money to make money" is really a balancing act
-Peter's top three tips on how to handle going into debt
-How Peter feels about Las Vegas
In Peter’s money lesson you will learn:
-How to act on new business ideas
-Growing a business is a marathon not a sprint
-Tips to visualizing goals
-Why Peter gets up at 4 AM every day
In Peter’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-Spoonbill.io is an app that shows you anyone that has updated their bio.
-He suggests using the changes in status as an opening to reach out and connect
Learn more about Peter!!
Check out his FasterthanNormal.com website
Get more info about his mastermind group at Shankminds.com
His website is Shankman.com
Connect with Peter on social
Instagram @petershankman
Twitter @petershankman
Transcription
Peter Shankman:
Going into debt for things that you love or things that you believe in isn't necessarily a bad thing. And I encourage people to go after what they love, but the question becomes, "Are you going after something you love and still able to do it in such a way? What happens if it doesn't work?"
Bobbie Rebell:
You are Listening to you Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grown-up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to. Get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbie Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup fans. That was entrepreneur and ADHD Advocate Peter Shankman. He talks fast, but pay close attention. He's worth it. Quick. Welcome to, everyone. Thanks for being here. We keep it simple. Spending about 15 minutes talking with high achievers, sharing there are many stories giving us insight into how they became such high achievers. If you like what you hear, please do all the things, subscribe, rate, review, take a screenshot, share it on social, tag me so I can thank you and tell a friend you care about.
Bobbie Rebell:
Let's talk about Peter Shankman. He does a lot and largely credits his ADHD, which stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder with being key to his success, which is why he wrote a book about it called Faster Than Normal, hosts, a podcast by that name, and now has the Shank Minds Community. He also wrote a bunch of other books. He was in PR. You might be familiar with the Geek Factory where he started a little side hustle to help journalists like me called appropriately help a reporter out or HARO. It's become very well-known and it's still a really big deal after he sold it. Also, he's an angel investor and he does marathons, Ironman triathlons, and he does a ton of skydiving like close to 500 jumps. Peter is a big deal. Let's get to him. Here is Peter Shankman.
Bobbie Rebell:
Hey, Peter Shankman, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Peter Shankman:
Well, that's questionable, but thank you. It's good to be here.
Bobbie Rebell:
And congratulations on all your recent success, including your book Faster Than Normal, which is also a podcast, and a mastermind group, and that follows on the heels of many entrepreneurial successes. The most dear to my heart, of course, is HARO, help a reporter out, which you guys sold, but certainly, you have made such a name with that, so congratulations on all that.
Peter Shankman:
Thank you. I've gotten lucky. Good times.
Bobbie Rebell:
And speaking of your entrepreneurial success, that brings us to your money story, which has to do with going into debt in part for success. Nothing you necessarily regret, but something that ties into your ADHD, which you've talked about, and you talk about so much publicly. That's actually been something that you've leveraged as an entrepreneur, but it also created debt.
Peter Shankman:
When somebody with ADHD comes up with the idea for a company, which is what they do a lot.
Bobbie Rebell:
You've had many companies.
Peter Shankman:
I have. The premise is like, "All right, I wonder if I could do this better," and like three hours later I have some have started a company, and I'm not really sure how. The problem there is that it's not necessarily cheap to do. And for me, I got lucky in the respect that when I started my first one back in the 90s, which was the Geek Factory, a public relations firm, I did it in such a way that I created an idea for this tee-shirt. The movie Titanic was coming out, and I had this idea that I could sell tee-shirts in times square, because there had to be other people that hated the movie, as well. So I went into Time Square with 500 tee-shirts that I spent my rent money on tee-shirts that read, "It sank, get over it." I thought I could sell maybe 150 in Times Square and make my money back.
Peter Shankman:
And I sold like 500 in six hours. I cleared like five grand, and I cleared about 100 grand on the web. But that was a risky thing, because that was my rent money. If I didn't have that, I didn't do well, I was kind of screwed. Right? So it's those things where you come up with this idea, and you see what happens, and you risk it, but going into debt for things that you love or things that you believe in isn't necessarily a bad thing. And I encourage people to go after what they love. But the question becomes, are you going after something you love and still able to do it in such a way, what happens if it doesn't work? And there are a lot of people don't think like that.
Bobbie Rebell:
And to some degree, even though it was your rent money and, in your head, of course, that's a huge amount of money. You later made even bigger bets.
Peter Shankman:
I definitely made bigger bets. Here's the thing, there are two types of risks. There's blind risk and there's calculated risk. And I'm a skydiver, right? I have close to 500 jumps. I own my own gear and the whole thing and if I thought that I was going to die every time I jumped out of a plane, I wouldn't do it. Right. The key is, is that I believe that the training I have, and the gear I have, I keep it clean. I keep it in good shape. I know what I'm doing. I've learned how to do it, and so if I thought I was going to die everything I jumped I wouldn't jump. So I take calculated risks and calculated risks, while they're still risky, inherently called risks. The end of the world is not coming, so I'm not going to be like, "Okay, I'm going to start this. If it doesn't work, I'm homeless and living on the street."
Bobbie Rebell:
So tell us about HARO.
Peter Shankman:
HARO was a company. I built the connected journalists with sources all around the world. For me it was, "Okay, I'm going to start this on my own using a mailing list and paying a kid, who I know, a 100 bucks to build me the cheapest website known to man," because all you really needed to do was capture email addresses, and I did it. What wound up happening was that as it started growing I was able to ... I never planned on making money at it, to begin with. I planned on doing it sort of for the sake of doing it, for fun and it would help journalists. It would help my friends, and it would be good Karma and it wound up blowing up in such a way that it started generating revenue without my really expecting it to. But on the flip side, as it got bigger, I had to spend more money to keep it alive. And so it was that balancing, because look, I'm not an MBA. For me, it was a balancing act of how do I do that? And that was a lesson I learned on the fly.
Bobbie Rebell:
So what exactly happened? You went into debt unexpectedly for that.
Peter Shankman:
I went to debt unexpected. Not a tremendous amount, but certainly enough where I'm sitting there going, "Hmm, this is interesting." I live in New York City, right? I was renting an apartment at the time, in midtown Manhattan, which was not cheap, still isn't. And I've since bought one, which is even less cheaper or more expensive, but it gets to the point where it's like, "Okay, am I still able to do this and what's my runway like?" I think that's what a lot of people don't think about. They think, "Okay, I'm going to go into debt for this." You got to look two, three, four, eight, 10, 12 months in advance, or 12 into the future. How is that going to look in 12 months? How's the runway that I'm on right now? So the plane going down the runway at some point you need to take off or slam on the brakes.
Bobbie Rebell:
What was your runway?
Peter Shankman:
I think for the first four months that I was building HARO, there was absolutely no revenue coming in, because again, it was just me and a mailing list, right? It wasn't costing that much, but HARO got picked up by a newspaper. It got picked up by the New York Times. It got picked up, Seth Godin wrote about it, so all of a sudden we were getting thousands of new members per day, and I was using a mailing list service that based their charges on how many members we had. Right? So the more emails I was sending out every day, that's great at building the site, the more it was costing me.
Peter Shankman:
I think I went from like at one point 100 bucks a month in mailing lists charges to 2000 bucks a month in mailing list charges. Right. And so something has to happen here. At the same time people started calling me, said, "Hey, we use HARO all the time. We open every single email, do you accept advertising on it?" And so all of a sudden I was able to start selling ads against HARO. And my premise was I'll sell ads for whatever the cost of everything I'm having to pay for is. Again, wasn't even trying to turn a profit.
Bobbie Rebell:
Why? Why were you not trying to turn a profit?
Peter Shankman:
Because I still was running a public relations firm and at the time I was still running a PR firm. My premise was just, "Okay, I'll just keep doing this and building it." And then one day, it kind of hit me like, "You know what? This is a lot more profitable than the PR firm. This can make a lot more money than the PR firm. I should put all my effort into this." So I started shutting down my clients, giving them to other companies, things like that. And that's when I realized, "Okay, there's a lot of money to be made here."
Bobbie Rebell:
Talk about the connection between ADHD, and your experience as an entrepreneur.
Peter Shankman:
You need to be very aware. Like I said, when you only have two speeds when you're ADHD, so you need to be very aware that the ideas that come into your head, "Hey, this seems like a great idea. Let's do this," right. Might not necessarily be a great idea, or they might sound like an awesome idea, but you have to make sure that you actually can afford to do said idea, right? It's one thing to go into debt on a brilliant idea. It's another thing to say, "Hey, this is interesting. Let's go to bed." So the question is, is it going to work? If you don't have a plan, you're going to get in trouble,
Bobbie Rebell:
But you didn't have a plan at HARO. Really?
Peter Shankman:
I also didn't know I was at ADHD at the time.
Bobbie Rebell:
Okay, fair enough.
Peter Shankman:
It wasn't until about five years later that I realized all this stuff that I do has an actual name for it, and so for instance, now when I go to Vegas to give a keynote, anywhere in the world that I keynote, my contract basically says, "I'll keynote, you'll pay me, except in Las Vegas," In Las Vegas, it says, "Client does not have to be on the ground from wheels down to wheels up for more than eight hours." And so I'll fly in at 6:00 AM do a 12:30 PM, keynote and be out on a 4:00 PM flight, because if I have to stay the night in Vegas, nothing good's going to come of that.
Bobbie Rebell:
So you didn't have the ADHD diagnosis when you started HARO. Looking back, are there things that you would have done differently had you known or are you grateful and it worked out that you did not know because that way you ... you really plowed into that very quickly. You basically had the idea and just did it.
Peter Shankman:
Yeah, three hours later it was launched. I mean, I'm thrilled by the way things happened because you know, I was able to realize, "Hey, this can actually work for me." But again, that point is you have to understand how your brain works and you have to understand sort of what works for you.
Bobbie Rebell:
You don't think you would've launched HARO had you had that fear that other people have, that fear of debt?
Peter Shankman:
Probably not. And the thing about me is that a lot of my, almost everything I've done, I can trace back to my ADHD, right? The premise of, "Huh, wonder what would happen if? This morning I was doing an open water swim with a friend of mine, 5:30 in the morning outside of Coney Island.
Bobbie Rebell:
Because you get up at four in the morning every day.
Peter Shankman:
Because I get up at four in the morning, right. I actually got up at 3:30 this morning, where I'm sitting at Coney island. We're looking at the water, I say, "Oh, it's really pretty. It's really nice. I wonder where we should go? Should we just do our normal regular swim?" And I look at a light, and there's a buoy, right? I'm like, "I wonder how far that buoy is?" And my friend and I, "Oh, that's probably not that far." And you know, then there's the Morgan Freeman announcer's voice going, "In fact, it was much further," so a mile and a half later we come back from the swim, nearly dead. That's why I'd have a wonderful financial advisor, I have a wonderful accountant whose job it is, is to protect me so that I don't do these stupid things.
Bobbie Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from this? Those who have ADHD and those who know of somebody who has ADHD because that's pretty much everybody.
Peter Shankman:
It is. I think the lesson is to understand yourself first and foremost, and once you understand yourself, don't put yourself into positions where you can get into that level of trouble. It doesn't mean don't take risks, but make sure, again, they're calculated risks is a big difference between doing something for the hell of doing yeah, whatever and taking a calculated risk.
Bobbie Rebell:
And as pertains to debt?
Peter Shankman:
Most definitely there is good debt, there's great debt. You know, owning a home is a great debt, but if you're making $135,000 a year, maybe buying a 2.7 million dollar home is not necessarily the best idea in the world. I would love those shows. House Hunters. You see these two people, "Yeah, my wife has a business where she combs the knots out of street dogs and I make artisanal pencils. Our budget is four million dollars?" What?
Bobbie Rebell:
So true.
Peter Shankman:
Try to live in your own life there and understand that at the end of the day, especially with finances, at the end of the day, the race is only with yourself and it's a marathon, it's not a sprint.
Bobbie Rebell:
For people with ADHD, any specific lessons to draw regarding taking on debt? Are they? Do they need to be more careful? I know you have a lot of checks and balances in place.
Peter Shankman:
Yeah. I think one of the best lessons I've learned. Anytime I want to buy something, whether I'm online, whether it's in person, I ask myself, I stop and I visualize, "Where's this thing going to go in my apartment? Where's it going? Because I have two bedroom apartment in New York City isn't that much. Where's it going to live? Where's it going to sit? How am I going to use it? Am I going to take it out of where it is or is it going to be too much of a pain to get it back in there? And I ask all these questions. That probably prevents me from, I'd say doing probably 60% of things I want to buy.
Peter Shankman:
The other thing I do is I keep a lot of the purchasing Apps off my phone. The same reason I don't put like food Apps on my phone where you can order food because it's just too easy to order crappy food, so I keep those off and if I want to order something I have to go to my computer, get on the web, and it's actually a process. If you make it a process, it's a little bit easier not to necessarily just blindly do it.
Bobbie Rebell:
All right, Peter, your everyday money tip is all about making sure you connect with people because that's how you're ultimately going to be successful. That goes back to your PR days and all the advice you've given people. What is your everyday money tip?
Peter Shankman:
I love a website called spoonbill.io. It's S-P-O-O-N-B-I-L-L-.I-O, and what it does is it shows you anyone who has updated their Twitter bio, right? So you want to keep an eye on that because if you're looking to talk to reporters, you're looking to talk to me, you find out immediately what they've done, the "Oh look, that person just changed where they work or whatever," and then you can shoot a note. "Hey, noticed that you changed your." It's a great way to keep in touch with people without coming across as too needy or too wanting. Just take a look just say, "Hey, I noticed that you just got a new job. Congratulations."
Bobbie Rebell:
Right. It gives you a reason to keep in touch. And it can be for business, it can be for friendship, all of which helps us live richer lives. So, Peter, tell us what's going on with you for the rest of 2018 into 2019 with Faster Than Normal and all your other projects.
Peter Shankman:
Well, Fast Than Normal is my baby. It's a wonderful website and podcast where we focus on ADHD and the fact that ADHD can be a gift, not a curse as long as you know how to use it, which is what we talked about here. I run a mastermind group with sort of the same premise for some entrepreneurs, smaller to midsize entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurship is lonely and you got to have people to talk to. You have people who understand what it's like to be an entrepreneur that's at shankminds.com. And we're a great group of people that meet virtually and then a couple times a year in person. What else am I doing? A lot of fun stuff. My entire life is at shankman.com, my last name. You can find me there and my email is petershankman.com, I'm @petershankman on all the socials. I'm happy to connect with anyone. I think it's fun.
Bobbie Rebell:
Love it, and you are great at keeping in touch and if people reach out to you it's pretty likely they're going to hear back, so thank you, Peter. You're really wonderful. We appreciate you being here.
Peter Shankman:
My pleasure. Always happy to help.
Bobbie Rebell:
Hey friends, here's my take. Financial Grownup tip number one, Peter has been successful because he took things that were unique to him that might have held them back, but instead he uses them as a superpower. Find your superpower. What other people may see as a challenge may, in fact, be your biggest asset. Take a time out one of these days and just think about it. Hit pause. What traits and themes keep rising? For Peter, it was things like risk-taking and moving forward with ideas before they were fully fleshed out, but that worked in his favor usually, or he recovered or the consequences weren't that bad.
Bobbie Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip Number two, Peter talked about reaching out to people when they had a change in job status and you were notified thanks to this App, so that's a great idea. I would add to that, that it is important to keep in touch with people when something maybe not so good happens like they lose a job or face a setback. People remember that. Even just calling to let them know you're aware of what's going on and you're there for them is going to be really meaningful and remembered.
Bobbie Rebell:
Okay, my friends, we're going to wrap. I thought about advocating, doing something big like Peter going skydiving, but you know what? It's not going to happen. I got to be honest, but if Peter has inspired you to skydive, I need to hear about it, so let me know. DM me my friends on Instagram. I am @bobbibebell1, at Twitter @bobbierebell. And find out more about the show, bobbyrebell.com/financialgrownup podcasts.
Bobbie Rebell:
Show notes same pattern every time, bobbierebell/.com/podcast/the guest's name. In this case, that forward slash has Peter Shankman after it. And thanks to Peter for being a great guest. I am staying on the ground. No skydiving for me, but you did get us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Bobbie Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.
The College Investor’s Robert Farrington loved his job at Target. He was also well paid. But he loved his family more. So he made the tough decision to leave and focus full-time on the side hustle that was already throwing off even more income.
In Robert’s money story you will learn:
-The value of time and how Robert made the decision to leave a job he loved in order to spend more time with him family
-How Robert grew his side hustle from no income into his full-time business
-Advice on how to leave a job on great terms
In Robert’s money lesson you will learn:
-His take on the benefits of growing a side hustle
-The specific obstacles Robert prepared for before taking the lead in his business
In Robert’s every day money tip you will learn:
-The truth behind retail shopping myths
-Quick tips on saving money while grocery shopping
-The number one Black Friday tip
Bobbi and Robert also talk about:
-Where the idea for his website started
-His regrets about leaving his job
-The College Investor and the resources offered online
-The College Investor 6 minute audio show on Apple Music
In My Take you will learn
-How to be honest with employers about having a side hustle - while not oversharing
-How spending time with family during the holidays can be more valuable than rushing out for Black Friday Deals
EPISODE LINKS:
Follow Robert!!
Instagram @thecollegeinvestor
Youtube @TheCollegeInvestor
Linkedin Robert Farrington
Listen to The College Investor Podcast https://apple.co/2CqMuC3
Learn more on The College Investor website https://thecollegeinvestor.com/
Transcription
Robert Farrington:
Am I really able to say that I value the time I spend with my family and stuff when I'm missing Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and weekends and not able to go to birthday parties?
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, get ready for an episode not really about money, but about living a rich life with your family. It's about the price of your time and the value of your time, and for many of us, not all time is created equal. Target store manager, Robert Farrington, had the money, but he wanted the time. Not just any time. Nights, weekends, and holidays, specifically, the times that most of us get to be with our families, but in retail, not so much. Fortunately, he had something else going on. More on that in a sec.
Bobbi Rebell:
First, a quick welcome to our new listeners and to our returning ones. If you like the show, take a screen grab, share it on social. Then subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes, and make sure that you have it set in the settings for automatic download. With that, let us get to Robert Farrington's story. He now runs a little site. It's actually a really big deal website called The College Investor. And for you early stage entrepreneurs, it was a side hustle with literally zero income. Yes, zero income, no money coming in for the first two years, but that was a while back. He'll tell you more about it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now, it is his full-time business and it is growing. You're going to love this story. Here is, the College Investor. It's Robert Farrington.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Robert Farrington. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Robert Farrington:
Hey. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
You are ... And this is trademarked, my friends. You are America's student loan debt expert. You're also the founder and editor of The College Investor, so you have a lot of knowledge to share with us.
Robert Farrington:
Whew. You kind of scare me when you say it all, but yeah. I'm excited to share with you.
Bobbi Rebell:
So give us a quick summary of what The College Investor is and then we're going to move into your money story.
Robert Farrington:
Sounds great. So, The College Investor was started by me as a side hustle in college, because I wanted to share my thoughts on how to invest. But everybody that I knew was like, "That's cool Robert, but I have student loans and other things and I just can't get there yet."
Robert Farrington:
So over the last few years, we've kind of incorporated more about getting out of student loan debt, getting out of debt in general, and how to build wealth so you can start investing even in your early 20s, or in college, so that you can build wealth and set those financial footprints in motion for your future.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, this is where it gets really cool and exciting, because you've been working on this for a very long time. You are married. You have two young children, the oldest one going into kindergarten. You were full time at Target until a year ago and this was your side hustle. And then you were able to make the decision to flip the switch and take your side hustle full time. And that's your money story. Tell us more Robert.
Robert Farrington:
Yeah. So about three years ago, I started earning more than my Target job. You know, we were just stashing the money away and didn't really have any plans to leave because you have to understand, I have loved working at Target. It was a great company to work for. I had been there a long time. I was comfortable there. I was probably one of the top performers in my area, so life was really good at Target. But there is one big drawback about working in retail and that is that you have to work nights and weekends, and holidays.
Bobbi Rebell:
Even if you were the manager by then. You were pretty senior.
Robert Farrington:
Right, but I also believe in being a leader, so I would still work my weekends with my team. I would work a night a week with my team and then as the leader, I definitely had to be there on Black Friday and throughout the holiday season. It meant having Thanksgiving lunch at like 12:00 and then going to work at 2:00 in the afternoon on Thanksgiving day, so that we're ready to go when the store opens.
Robert Farrington:
That really became hard as my kids were getting older.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so tell me about the conversation that you had with your wife when this decision was made.
Robert Farrington:
It really was a series of decisions. First off, it was like, this is a cool side hustle. Let's not change anything. And then it was like, wow this is really becoming more of a thing and we can live off this business income on the side. And you don't need to work there. Finally, I really had to think about what we valued as a family. So my wife and I were talking and you hear these things like, "Show me your money and show me your time, and it will tell you what you value." So, am I really able to say that I value the time I spend with my family and stuff, when I'm missing Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and weekends, and not able to go to birthday parties.
Robert Farrington:
So, it was really really hard to leave something I was so comfortable with, but at the same time I also wasn't living my truth in that I wasn't necessarily doing exactly what I valued. And we could afford it. I could afford the life I wanted to, and said that I wanted to. And that really was a big part of our conversation with my wife.
Robert Farrington:
The second thing is, is contingency plans. We always had these conversations. I run an online business, so it's like, what happens if the internet goes out tomorrow? Right? Are we going to be financially okay if suddenly there is no income stream. So, it really was about planning and making sure we had enough saved and if the internet did stop tomorrow and I left my day job, would we be okay financially? And we kind of checked all these boxes and once those were all yeses, it was setting a timeline up for when does it make the most sense to leave?
Bobbi Rebell:
They knew about the side hustle right?
Robert Farrington:
It was one of those things. I never hid it, but I was never fully overt about it. It had been on my LinkedIn profile for a decade. My peers, every now and then, I'd get student loan questions from my peers. They'd be like, "I'm trying to pay off my student loans. Can you help me?"
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, but did the Target management know that this was producing more income than they were paying you?
Robert Farrington:
I never shared that, so I'm 99% sure that they had no idea. In fact, I know most of them didn't because when I left and afterwards, they had a little going away party for me and like, "We wish you the best of luck. We hope this all works well for you."
Bobbi Rebell:
So they had no idea?
Robert Farrington:
Yeah, and I never hid that. So that's the interesting thing. If no one asked, I was very candid. I've been candid even for the last seven, eight years online. On different podcasts and interviews and stuff, so it's out there.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did they ever think maybe we should pay him more? If he can make more from a blog, maybe we're underpaying him? Was there any kind of conversation like that, ever?
Robert Farrington:
It's hard, because I was extremely well paid. It was a nice six-figure ... I don't think people realize what you make at Target, but I was, with my bonuses and stuff, I was probably making about $180,000/year when I left.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So, let's go back to quitting. So, how did you actually quit?
Robert Farrington:
So, I really did think about this and planned it out. Because I also, like I said, I wanted to leave on really good terms. I didn't want to burn any bridges, so I actually, my wife and I finalized our plans for leaving in February, or March of last year. We said we're going to leave in September. And I thought this was very respectful from the workload that was going on at Target, but it was also enough time that they could have enough leeway to have everything in place before the holiday season.
Robert Farrington:
I decided that we're going to give a month notice, so I actually told my boss in August. And I probably gave about five and a half, six weeks notice. But I was fully ... You hear these horror stories like, if they were going to walk me out that day or something crazy, I was fully prepared to leave that day. But I was going to be very respectful, and so when my boss came in August, I would say she comes like once or twice a month. When she came in, I just pulled her into my office and said, "I have something really important to share with you." She had no idea what was coming. I said, "Hey. So I have some big changes I want to tell you. I am going to be resigning and I'm going to be pursuing my own endeavors outside of Target. Spending more time with my family."
Robert Farrington:
And the look of shock, she actually texted me like four hours later. So I told her at probably 4:00 in the afternoon, so this was like 8:00 at night. She's like, "I cannot believe this. This is crazy. I'm totally shocked." I totally caught her off guard. But I gave them, like I said, almost six weeks notice. So, I felt like I left in the most respectful and terms possible. Which I also think is the best way to possibly leave if you are going to leave.
Bobbi Rebell:
What was the reaction around your store?
Robert Farrington:
Most of them were pretty excited for me. I think all my direct reports actually were much more aware of everything then anybody else above me. And so, it was less of a shock, but same thing. I'm also very diligent in how you let people know, so make sure you have a very strong hierarchy of letting my senior managers know. And then just announcing it downward. Clear communication before I even let them know. So, I don't think I let them know until about a week and a half after I let my boss know. So my boss already had some plans in place, and we were able to share some very specific plans, which I think is really important when you transition in any workplace.
Bobbi Rebell:
Are there things you would do differently, looking back?
Robert Farrington:
I honestly would probably do it sooner. It's one of those things, I was so worried about all these random variables. And I probably gave an extra year or two to Target. And like I said, it's a great company but at the same time, what could I have done in those extra year or two when I could have left longer. That's the only real regret I have.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?
Robert Farrington:
I think the big lesson is, if you grow this side hustle with your time and energy outside of work instead of watching TV shows, or doing whatever non-productive things you're probably doing outside of work, you could turn this into a full-time job that you're passionate about, you love, and it works with your schedule. So, I think it's definitely a clear path that you can actually achieve if you want to put the time and effort into it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your everyday money tip. We're going to tap into your knowledge as a retail expert, having seen it all, from the grassroots level. Tell us what people can do to save money and be better shoppers at stores, not necessarily just Target, but stores like Target. What can they know about pricing, about sales, and so on?
Robert Farrington:
Yeah. Let's debunk some of these myths first. So first off, I always love these Buzzfeed articles that come out. What digits are the last ones that you know what the markdowns are?
Robert Farrington:
Well, let's talk a little bit about math. So almost every price in retail ends in 99 cents, right? So, when you mark something down half off, it's always going to end in eight. Because that's just math. And so when you mark it down 75% off, for the third time, or the second markdown, it's going to end in a four. So, these math strategies that they say are secret hacks, is really just the math of the sales. It's true.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.
Robert Farrington:
I think people just need to realize that. I think the best thing ... The other thing that people need to realize is that, almost every store Target included, puts the same things on sale every two weeks. So it just alternates, so if you're a regular grocery shopper, you'll notice this a lot. Especially in food, because one week it'll be Coke on sale, the next week it'll be Pepsi on sale. And then it goes back to Coke on sale. Then it goes back to Pepsi on sale. And it's the same sale. It's just goes alternating every other week. And you see this in almost every major retailer, so one, if you have really strong brand allegiance, align your shopping habits with your sale week and you'll probably find that you're going to get that same sale every time you go in because it will line up with your shopping habits.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you said you always have to work, you've always had to work the holidays and especially Black Friday. What's your number one Black Friday tip?
Robert Farrington:
The number one Black Friday tip is that all the ads come online about a month before Black Friday. So you can plan out all your shopping ahead of time. And you have to realize that the door busters at every store, there's only about 10 to maybe 50 of that item. And so, if there's one thing that you really really really really can't live without, if you're not the first 10 to 50 people in line, you're probably not going to get it. So don't waste your time going out there.
Robert Farrington:
The second thing though, that's really emerged over the last couple years is online shopping. So at the same time, a lot of these companies are trying to compete with each other and they're moving their Black Friday sales online and they're moving them on to the week before Black Friday. So you can get a lot of the same great deals online, but without even going to the store, about a week before you even shop.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk more about what's going on with The College Investor. So this is your full-time passion project, slash income, slash growing company. You've got a whole staff there now. You're managing that now. What are you priorities? Where is your growth going to come from? What can people expect and look forward to there?
Robert Farrington:
So if you want to know anything about getting out of student loan debt, and starting to invest, The College Investor has it for you. We have pretty much every topic around student loan debt covered and you know, sadly as much as I don't want this to be the growing reason for our growth, student loan debt in America is growing and it's such a problem for most people. So we have your answers. We have tools and resources that can help you. If you don't like to read, you can also listen to The College Investor audio show. It's a podcast where we change our written articles into a short digestible audio show for you because I know-
Bobbi Rebell:
You love that. Love short.
Robert Farrington:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. I love that.
Robert Farrington:
Short. I mean, I think I beat you because my average show time is like six to eight minutes because we're just talking about the daily article of the day.
Bobbi Rebell:
But that's perfect. That's what people need because everyone's busy. Alright, where can people ... People can obviously reach you at The College Investor, but tell me your social channels et cetera.
Robert Farrington:
Yeah. You can go to thecollegeinvestor.com. You can go to The College Investor audio show. You can find us on YouTube at The College Investor and you can find us on Instagram at The College Investor.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you Robert.
Robert Farrington:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, that pricing math that Robert thinks is so obvious to everyone, I had no clue. What about you?
Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on what he had to say. Financial Grownup tip number one. If you have a side hustle, follow Robert's path and be open about it at work. You don't have to be too open. When I went to write my book, How to be a Financial Grownup, the first thing I did was tell my managers and get their okay. Don't hide things. But then also, don't work on it during your work hours and you can be open about your plans, but you don't have to share the whole big picture and all your grand plans.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. I love that Robert chose family over spending time working on the holidays. The same can be said for shopping. Before you race out to get one of those amazing, say Black Friday deals, remember that Robert said, and a lot of you know this already, there are very few available. So, you'll have to get here really early and spend a lot of time, invest a lot of time, to get it. So is saving money really worth cutting into your family time on a holiday? Maybe look online, a different day, ahead of time and set a price alert. Then, if you get that alert, you can spend five minutes buying it online and get back to being with your family. Or, maybe what you have is fine and you don't buy it at all.
Bobbi Rebell:
Before we wrap up, tell me, I want to know, what's your best retail shopping tip? DM it to me. And please, take a minute to follow me on social media. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram. bobbirebell on Twitter, and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. The website to get more information about the show, bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast and for the show notes and more about Robert and the The College Investor, go to bobbirebell.com/podcast/robertfarrington and thanks to The College Investor's Robert Farrington for bringing us all one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.
Entrepreneur Melissa Clark had a lot going on- too much. Even she was confused. She was a wellness practitioner, creating content on many platforms including local tv, podcasting, video and books, including a children’s book, as well as coaching and speaking businesses focused on women’s empowerment. But letting go and narrower her focus was a challenge.
In Melissa’s money story you will learn:
-How Melissa started a business based on her passion for Reiki and wellness
-How the business was evolving in unexpected ways
-The difficult choice she had to make to pare back parts of the business in order to build up the ones that were resonating with her audience
In Melissa’s money lesson you will learn:
-How Melissa prioritized her business growth
-The criteria she used to focus her energy on certain parts of her business
-How she got it all done while working a full-time job!!
In Melissa’s every day money tip you will learn:
-How to self-publish a book for free or without upfront costs
-The things you might want to pay for
-Specifically how Melissa used Create Space
-The advantages of print on demand, especially for special occasions
-Whether you should consider producing an audio guide
-How digital guides can be a great option to save costs
Bobbi and Melissa also talk about
-The She Shift brand and her book
-Melissa’s new partnerships with women’s organizations
-Melissa’s speaking business and her podcast
In My Take you will learn:
-How to pivot your business to focus on the areas that are resonating with your audience
-They key sign it doesn’t make sense to other people- is when they tell you they are confused
-The importance of consistency in brand building
-The difference between procrastinating and taking the right amount of time for a project aka not putting something out there before it is ready.
Episode Links
Learn More about The She Shift TheSheShift.com
Follow Melissa and the She Shift!
Facebook TheSheShift
Twitter @thesheshift
Instagram @thesheshift
LinkedIn :Melissa Clark
Create Space
Entrepreneur Melissa Clark had a lot going on- too much. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode we discuss how Melissa prioritized her business growth and the criteria she used to focus her energy on certain parts of her business. #Rebranding #FinancialGrownup #RebrandSmallBusiness #Author
Transcription
Melissa Clark:
Reiki was something that really helped me in my own life, so I was very passionate about helping other people. It was growing slowly. Trying to figure out how to tie everything in together, that was actually a little bit of a challenge because people knew that I was doing all of these things, but they weren't related so much.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup". And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, this is an episode that makes me really proud of our guest. She is Melissa Clark, and her relatively new brand is The She Shift. More on that in a sec. Not long ago, Melissa thought she was building a wellness business as a Reiki practitioner under the brand The Wholistic Package. The brand clarity was an issue because she had so much going on. She had a children's book, she was working as a speaker, she was hosting a local TV show, she had a line of inspirational apparel, and a book on women and ambition, and videos, and lots of content. So much content. And this was also, by the way, her side hustle.
Bobbi Rebell:
Before we get to her story, quick welcome to our newest listeners and welcome back to our regulars. We are all busy, so we try to keep the podcast here to what we call flex time. The episodes are around fifteen minutes, but if you have a little more time, stack them together, binge, whatever you want to call it. It is about making it work for you. Make sure to subscribe, and you will get three a week. Go into settings and just confirm that you are on auto-download so you don't miss any, and if you still have a second, take a screenshot of the episode on your phone if that's where you're listening to it, and please share it on your social media channels. Help us to spread the word.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, let's get to Melissa Clark. Brave interview here because Melissa basically admits after I kind of confront her that yes, she had a bunch of different product lines and content going on that she could sort of justify as related, but her audience, well, a lot of the time, they were confused, I was confused, but she's got it together now. So this is a story of how she dropped what wasn't working and built up what was, and no, it did not happen overnight. This lady works a lot. Here is The She Shift's Melissa Clark.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Melissa Clark, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Melissa Clark:
Hi, Bobbi. Thanks so much for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the continued growth of your relatively new platform. We're going to talk about that. She Shift, which is not only a website, a blog, it's also a book, it's also a podcast, and it is growing. You're also a speaker. And it's all about empowering women.
Melissa Clark:
Yes, very much so. And I'm very excited to have launched that last year and all of the amazing things, as you said, under that umbrella.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it's not just a launch of that, it was actually a shift in and of itself. It was a rebrand. You made some tough decisions and had to let some things go. Tell us your money story about this rebrand and pivoting of what you were doing in your whole business
Melissa Clark:
A few years ago, I started as a wellness practitioner, a Reiki practitioner, and my business at the time was called The Wholistic Package, and in that time, I was working on wellness, I was also in the writing process. Things were shifting for myself during the past few years, and so far as working more with women through a local television show that I had in my community, through a line of inspirational apparel that I was working on, and then my book came about, and I really decided at one point that it was the right time to shift everything for myself and shift everything under one umbrella and under one brand, because for me, it really made sense to have everything under one brand that focused on women and women empowerment, and each item that I have, or service that I have, is something different, but everything has the same mission.
Melissa Clark:
I really had to almost start from scratch and create content and figure out how to change my platform, my website, my logo. So everything under The She Shift, I essentially had to start over and start from scratch and create. I basically put my head down for ten months and worked on my book and worked on my consulting packages and worked on all of the content that was going to be under that brand, and I had to figure out really what direction and where I saw that in the bigger picture. So in 2016, I started to transition with the book, and it was actually October of last year where I focused more on that specific content, and about six weeks ago, I launched every piece of content and every facet and aspect of The She Shift.
Bobbi Rebell:
Was it hard, or what did it feel like to let go of your old platform?
Melissa Clark:
As a wellness practitioner, that was something ... Reiki was something that really helped me in my own life, so I was very passionate about helping other people. It was growing slowly, but all of the other things I was working on, I published a children's book in 2015, and I was working on the inspirational apparel that I have for women. So I was kind of doing all of these different things and trying to figure out how to tie everything in together. That was actually a little bit of a challenge because people knew that I was doing all of these things, but they weren't related so much. So they were ... I was trying to make everything about our mind, body, and spirit, and improving ourselves and our well-being. But, you know, everything had a little bit of a different theme, so-
Bobbi Rebell:
It almost sounds like it was confusing to your audience.
Melissa Clark:
At points, I did get some feedback that people knew the separate pieces of what I was doing, but sometimes, they weren't quite sure either. So it was a time when I had to reevaluate what I was working on and how I could get all of these things under one umbrella because I was so passionate about working on the consulting side, and the speaking side, and my writing, and doing all of these things, but I realized at the end of the day that everything had the same message and it was the same mission, so I could then put it under the same. So it did take a little bit for me to let go of the other side of it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Were you running multiple social media accounts for each of these brands at the time?
Melissa Clark:
I was working on The Wholistic Package, and I then switched over. I actually had to create a brand new Facebook account. At the time, I had several hundred followers through my old business, but because I had to change the mission of the business, I had to start a new account with that, and then I ended up starting at that time, I went into the Instagram, and the Twitter, and the LinkedIn, and that's when I really started creating more content and trying to be more consistent with the social media. I've been working with the content a lot more these days because there's so much content to work with, and I do everything from videos to my podcast to different writing pieces, and I really try to keep up on all of that, but everything is under the same mission and theme now, so now I have a lot of content to work with.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from your story? I mean, it's hard to say goodbye to a brand that you created, that you put so much into. So much of your love, and so much money, time, and resources.
Melissa Clark:
Sure, so shedding that piece, which seemed to be maybe a little difficult at the time, it really brought me to where I am today, and I organically followed my path I say, because I know that this is where I'm meant to be and what I'm meant to be doing, so the lesson is sometimes you may be working on something at one point in your life, and that could change. I mean, even in the business that I have now, you never know. I always say I do think about where it's going to be five years from now, but I do take everything day by day because you really don't know where things are going to go or what opportunities are going to present themselves in your life.
Bobbi Rebell:
For your everyday money tip, you are a self-published author. This is a world I don't know that much about, but you have some brilliant advice for people that don't want to have to front any money. I didn't know this. You can pretty much at least publish, obviously there's things coming up to publishing, but you can publish almost for free, especially, this is great, not only for people that want to publish for professional reasons, but maybe you just want to publish a few for a family member, for a special occasion, for a friend's wedding, make a little mini-book or something. Tell us.
Melissa Clark:
Sure. So with my personal experience for my children's book and for my book for women in business, I've used Create Space, which I started with Create Space in 2015 is when my children's book came out. So at that time, I wrote the printed book and I had a Kindle version. And for my book for women in business, "The She Shift", I have it in a paperback, and what I love about self-publishing is that you go onto their website, you can either do it yourself or you can work with a designer and have them upload the file, and it's print on demand. So really, if you don't want to spend a lot of money for a large quantity of books up front, and let's say you plan on doing an event, a table event, or you want to buy some copies for your family, you can go in and you can select how many you'd like, and it's a print on demand. So there's not a lot of up front coasts regarding the printing of the book, and it really, I think, helps a lot of authors to save some costs in that way.
Bobbi Rebell:
And also, you said you could do audio and Kindle as well, or electronic, it doesn't have to be Kindle.
Melissa Clark:
Sure, so you can do an ebook, and also now, a lot of authors are doing audio guides on Audible or through different platforms. My own audio guides, I actually recorded them myself and they're on my website. So you can do either, which that also can save costs because it's a digital file, so they're really becoming popular as well now, especially the audio guides, so it's another way for authors to save a little bit on the printing and designing costs.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. All right, let's talk about The She Shift a little bit more. You mentioned you don't know where it will be in five years. Let's talk about the next five months, the rest of 2018. What's on the agenda?
Melissa Clark:
Thank you. So right now, I'm focusing on my book launch, which is on Amazon, and then consulting, speaking, and other opportunities, and I have some speaking engagements scheduled, and I'm also partnering with some women's organizations, so I'm continuing to do those things, and I really look forward to the next six months to really seeing what's going to happen and connecting with more amazing women.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, where can everyone find out more about you and The She Shift?
Melissa Clark:
Sure. TheSheShift.com, or I'm on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, and Instagram. LinkedIn, I'm under Melissa Clark, and the others, it's under The She Shift.
Bobbi Rebell:
Melissa, this was wonderful. Thank you so much.
Melissa Clark:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, here's my take on Melissa's story. Financial grownup tip number one, your business has to make sense to other people. If you have to constantly explain how the parts fit together, they don't. And it's okay to drop products that used to work with your brand, but no longer do. It's also okay to drop a brand completely, as Melissa basically did with The Wholistic Package. And it was hard. She had put a lot into it and she loved it. But to focus on her She Shift business, she had to make some hard choices. Saying goodbye to something so much went into to make time in your day and in your mind to build up something that's better ultimately is hard, but worth it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, take the time. Melissa talked about this revamp going back a couple of years. A lot of that was that her day job took up a lot of her time. That's okay. So she was realistic about what it would take to get this done. Doing something methodically and carefully is not the same as procrastinating, and during that time, she was building up different parts of it to be a more cohesive brand. Being deliberate in your plans and how you allocate resources is a very financial grownup thing to do.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for supporting the show. I want to hear about your grownup money and business experiences. I love hearing from you and getting all kinds of feedback. On Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1, on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and on Facebook at BobbiRebell. For the show notes, go to BobbiRebell.com/podcast/MelissaClark, and all of the show notes follow the same pattern in that the last segment is just the guest's name. So we keep it really simple, you don't have to worry about what number it was, just know the guest's name and it's BobbiRebell.com/podcast/the guest's name. And while you're there, sign up for our new [inaudible 00:13:59], we're going to get it going again this fall. Looking forward to some great content there.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to Melissa Clark for your candor and for such a real discussion about the challenges of being an entrepreneur, and just being a grownup, figuring out who you are and what works, and for helping all of us get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Startup guru Courtney Reum credits family dinners and the lessons served with helping to create the foundation of his business success. Along with his brother, he has not only built and sold his own venture (Veev) and written a best seller “Shortcut Your Startup”, but is now also mentoring and supporting a new generation of entrepreneurs and brands.
In Courtney’s money story you will learn:
-The importance of family dinners in forming Courtney’s values
-The financial values Courtney and his brother learned from their parents
-Courtney’s confession about his teenage self
-How it helped Courtney learn about financial priorities and resource allocation
-Why Courtney references Jane Fonda and Jazzercise when talking about nutrition
-Courtney’s love of Sushi on Sundays
In Courtney’s money lesson you will learn:
-How his parents shared meals in order to stretch their dinners out budget
-The one key thing Courtney’s dad did when the bill came that can save you money
-Advice on how to figure out the right amount to tip when eating out
-The importance of sticking to old fashioned values even though technology dominates
-Little known facts about how phone numbers were created
In Courtney’s every day money tip you will learn:
-Courtney’s advice about carrying cash in a digital world
-Why $100 is the magic number for his emergency stash when traveling
Bobbi and Courtney also talk about
-How M13 began after the brothers sold Veev
-Why Courtney believes we are living in the golden age of creating brands
-Courtney’s angel investments and his take on consumer tech brands
-Why he believes all brands need to be media and tech companies
-What the M13 playbook is and how it works
-Courtney’s book with his brother, “Shortcut your Startup”
-The importance of realizing “Time is the new Money"
In My Take you will learn
-How eating together as a family has been shown to increase the odds of success for kids
-Why checking the bill at restaurants often leads to corrections- in your favor
EPISODE LINKS:
Follow Courtney!!
Instagram @CourtneyReum And his insta with his brother Carter @ReumBrothers
Twitter @courtneyreum @M13company
Linkedin Courtney Reum
Learn more about M13 at m13.co
Read Courtney’s book “Shortcut your Startup” !
Learn more about the spirits brand they built and sold: Veev !
Learn more about the companies Courtney and M13.co are working with:
Classpass
Lyft
Casper
Kevita
Bonobos
Warby Parker
Learn more about the success that comes from eating together as a family:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/12/the-most-important-thing-you-can-do-with-your-kids-eat-dinner-with-them/?utm_term=.94cf3514f57c
Transcription
Courtney Reum:
They certainly tried to show us and explain that there's some nutrition here. Back then it was like I call the Jane Fonda Jazzercise, so it was they were like, "This is not too much fat, not too much calories. It's good, heres why," and so I equate the not too much fat, not too many calories to just the value of the meal, and so they were all about the value in things.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, that was Courtney Reum talking about family dinners growing up, and this is on family. They eat together generally seven nights a week, and while, as you will hear in his story, it wasn't about the food, the food did provide a largely unspoken lesson about money allocation and priorities. I'm really excited to share this story, I think we're all going to find something that we can relate to here and put to work in our own lives.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, first a quick welcome. We keep things short here, around 15 minutes. Flex time for our busy listeners because you can listen to one episode or you can listen to a few if you have more time. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't done so already, so you won't miss any upcoming episodes, and make sure when you do so, to go into settings and set you the auto-download. That way you never have to think about it again. If you have a free moment after that, leave a review. We see every one of them, we really appreciate it, and it is the best way for other people to hear about the show and for us to grow. Speaking of that, of course you can also tell a friend.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's get to Courtney. There is something in this episode for everyone. Courtney Reum is not as famous as he should be, or as he will be. Pay attention to this guy, and his brother by the way, who's also his business partner, Carter. After stints at Goldman Sachs and success creating and then selling their popular spirits company, VeeV, the brothers are now helping nurture other success stories with their company M13. It's a disruptive brand development studio and venture capital firm. Their portfolio incudes investments in some names you may or may not have heard of, like Lyft, ClassPass, Pinterest, Bonobos, Warby Parker and more.
Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, in their spare time, they wrote a book for anyone who wants to rev up their brand, Shortcut Your Startup. Courtney also drops some random facts I never knew, and I bet you didn't either, so play close attention, here is Courtney Reum.
Bobbi Rebell:
Courtney Reum, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Courtney Reum:
Thanks so much for having me. Great to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so excited to have you. Not only are you, and your brother I should say, the inventors of Veev, which a lot of people are fans of, you now have a new company which we'll talk more extensively about after your money story, but M13, which is a brand development company, you have investments in a lot of really cool companies, from ClassPass, to Casper, to Lyft. Tell us just briefly about it. What is M13? M13 has a really cool origin, the name right?
Courtney Reum:
Yeah. Well we wanted to have that mysterious MI6 kind of I don't know what they do, but it must be something cool sound to it. But the literal name, M13, is the brightest cluster of starts in the galaxy, whereby the sum of the whole shines greater than the individual parts. It's this idea of connecting the dots and pitting the pieces together, which is what we're really endeavoring to with M13.
Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. I should mention you also have a book.
Courtney Reum:
We do. What we're trying to do right now with M13 is build a company for building companies, so we're starting some of our own, we're working with other companies, and so we have a, I guess I'd call it a venture capital arm and then a brand development studio, and we're really trying to institutionalize the platform or the machinery of how you create brands. We decided to try to codify that and write a book called Shortcut Your Startup, that is a lot of the principals and things we're doing, because we believe it's the new age of creating consumer brands and things like that, so we wanted to share what we've learned and then hopefully continue to improve on it with what we're doing with M13.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. You also learned a lot from your parents growing up. I know your father unfortunately passed away a little more than a year ago, but there were a lot of lessons around the dinner table, about saving and splurging. Tell us your money story Courtney.
Courtney Reum:
I think one of my most vivid memories growing up is that my family was really big on the lost art of having family dinner, probably almost until the time we got to high school, we probably did it seven days a week just about, and even through high school, probably four or five, which I think is almost unheard of. But what stands out to me is my parents, who were very frugal even when they didn't have to be, but always very value oriented, we would probably, four nights a week, eat some kind of Stouffer's, Lean Cuisine, AKA TV dinner. The only real choice for the night would be are we going to have spaghetti tonight or are we going to have chicken and vegetables? Whatever it may be.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. But your mom wasn't cooking spaghetti from scratch, these were heat-up meals for $5, $10, whatever they were going for at that time.
Courtney Reum:
Right, because I remember being teenager, and I was always a little bit of a smart you know what, and my mom would say, "Okay, I'm going to cook dinner," I'm like, "You call that cooking?" She's like, "You know what I mean, just pick which one you want." I think my family's a bunch of type A busy bees, people on the go, but we would have TV dinners three or four nights a weeks, and then Sunday would always be the day where my parents would say, "All right, we're going to go out for a nice dinner. Where do you guys want to go?" Nine out of 10 times, growing up in Chicago in the 90s we'll say, it would be sushi, and despite what people may think now, sushi was super exotic.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yeah.
Courtney Reum:
And rare back then, to the point that not one friend of mine ate sushi. My friends in high school, like on the football team and stuff, when I would walk somewhere with a cut roll of sushi, they would take it out and throw it back and forth like it was an egg toss because they were so wowed by what the heck sushi was. Anyways-
Bobbi Rebell:
And it was expensive.
Courtney Reum:
Yeah, and it was expensive. We certainly grew up having every opportunity, but having said that, I could not have gone out for sushi four nights a week, so it was a great lesson in all right, I'm going to have a TV dinner tonight, not realizing how some of those nitrates and processing and all that good stuff.
Bobbi Rebell:
It was a different time. Give your parents a break. We didn't know at the time. Now we're all eating clean.
Courtney Reum:
Yes, exactly, but I definitely was able to scoff down a few of those dinners, knowing that Sunday was around the corner and we were going to have our favorite sushi dinners.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did your parents ever talk to you about the financial decisions behind that?
Courtney Reum:
My parents didn't explicitly talk about it, but they certainly tried to show us and explain that, "Hey, we don't have time, nor can we go out for sushi every night, but this is still a really good meal. There's some nutrition here." Back then it was like I call the Jane Fonda Jazzercise, so it was they were like, "This is not too much fat, not too much calories. It's good, heres why," and so I equate the not too much fat, not too many calories to just the value of the meal, and so they were all about the value in things.
Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners, what is the takeaway? How can people apply this lesson of saving and then splurging to their own lives?
Courtney Reum:
My parents are both highly disciplined people, and I would like to think that has trickled down to us. Even to keep it with food, since it's such a bonding occasion, my parents loved to tell stories of living in New York City right after they graduated college, and they would go out to dinner once a week because they felt like it was important to do right when they were newly weds, but they couldn't afford to really go out to dinner, so they would share one appetizer, one entree, one dessert and one coffee. The fact that they had the discipline to still find a way to enjoy and make the most of whatever they could do, but they had the discipline to realize we can't go out for a full-blown meal all the time, and that made a big impression on me.
Bobbi Rebell:
What's the most memorable financial lesson your dad taught you?
Courtney Reum:
My dad checked every bill from every restaurant. Whether we spent $7 or $70, he would check every bill. Still to this day, I do that, and I'm shocked how often there's a mistake on the bill, and most people, if you don't really check it closely, they don't catch it. They're like oh, they threw another drink on there, and maybe you don't care, but you might as well at least know. My dad would always joke, "It's funny how the restaurant very rarely makes an error in your favor." He just taught me to really dot your Ts and cross your Is, and my dad was one of those guys who could do incredible math in his head. None of this stuff where you just take the amount of the check and double it to do the tip or something like that, he would calculate whatever number was in his mind, 16%, 17%, without tax because he didn't believe you tipped on tax back then, and just do it in his head and write it down. Just having a facility with numbers and being in the details was something I really took from him.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. He didn't have apps that would split things up and calculate everything for him.
Courtney Reum:
No calculators on his phone because there was and phones. He was like a human calculator, at least up to maybe two or three digits.
Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners, what's the takeaway from that?
Courtney Reum:
I think there is that old fashioned way to do things, and we've got to make sure [inaudible 00:09:20] where we don't lose it in the world of talk to text or voice or you name it, because I always say to people, "Do you know why telephone numbers are seven digits, not including area code? Because seven digits is roughly the amount of digits that can stay in you short-term memory, depending on how you define that, 30 seconds to a minute, this can stay in your memory and you can remember it. Back in the day when phone numbers were created, you really needed to remember that thing, or even if you wrote to down, and so it was important that it stayed in your short-term memory." Now think how few numbers we actually know off the top of our head, so we have to make sure we just don't lose those skills.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Speaking of skills, let's talk about your everyday money tip, because we were joking before we started taping, that you are ... I can't even keep track Courtney. I know you got off an overnight, but then it was delayed and you were on the tarmac. You travel a lot and you don't use a lot of cash, but cash is important in terms of this one everyday money tip that you're going to share.
Courtney Reum:
Yes. I always keep an emergency $100 bill, just for a rainy day, in my briefcase. My briefcase is more of a tech Tumi backpack, but I always keep it in there, try to always replenish it when I use it, and as silly as it sounds, obviously it takes up no room and there are so many times where I'm some place, I'm like, "I have no money," I'm like, "Wait. The emergency 100." I would encourage people, whether it's an emergency 20 or 50 or 100, whatever it is, always hide it from yourself so you don't use it too often, but then always have it available.
Bobbi Rebell:
Great advice, and something we all should definitely do. All right, let's talk a little bit more about M13. Where are you taking this company? Because this was basically formed after you sold Viiv, what's happening with it next and what should we look forward to hearing about?
Courtney Reum:
Yeah, as I alluded to, I think our whole thing when we sold Viiv, was we had started and operated some companies, we had been on the boards of a bunch of other companies and thankfully been successful. For example, there's a probiotic and kombucha line called KeVita, that Pepsi bought a couple of years ago. Basically, all consumer tech companies, we probably made, at that time, maybe three dozen angel investments, and we said, "You know," we tried to step back and do the proverbial lift your head up, see where the world's going, and we thought yeah, of course we could, we had plenty of ideas, we could start a new company, try to make it successful, sell it or not sell it.
Courtney Reum:
But we really think we're living in this golden age of creating brands, again, we focus on consumer tech brands, and by that I mean consumer brands that tend to be techable, so that can be anything like direct to consumer online brand, or even something like a Lyft that we're big investors in, or Pinterest.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Give us some more examples. Yeah, drop some names.
Courtney Reum:
Drop some names, okay. Let's see. Right now I'm wearing Bonobos pants, Warby Parker glasses, some of the mattress companies, so it's all things that we basically believe that every consumer brand needs to be saying to themselves, "How can it more of a media and tech company?" Because what's really changed is that this is the golden age of creating brands. I saw a funny meme the other day that was like I want to create a brand and someone says, "How should I do it?2 he goes, "Oh, it's really easy. You just get someone to give you a name, a logo, and then you make it in China and you sell some ads on Instagram." It obviously a joke, but there's some truth to it.
Courtney Reum:
What we're trying to do is institutionalize the process of brand building. Obviously nothing is one size fits all, but there are things that I get asked every single day like, "Hey, do you know a good digital marketing agency? Do you know someone who does that?" Rather than do the analog way of replying to every one of those, or thinking about who I know or who did I come across that week, we have actually taken all of our learnings and put it into what we call our M13 playbook, which is literally a digital repository of all our best practices and best resources. That's contacts, that distribution strategies, that's broker partners, those are relationships, and have actually put it in a format that we believe if we do this well, will help brands start faster, more time efficiently. Our book is all about time is the new money, so it's about trying to launch brands at scale so we can do it in a repeatable way and launch brands more quickly and more often than we previously would have been able to.
Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you and Shortcut Your Startup, which is your book, and all your social channels. I know you're a little bit shy about being too promotional on social, but people can at least see pictures of your adorable mom on your social right?
Courtney Reum:
Right, exactly. If nothing else, please read the first page of my book because it's dedicated to my dad, and please look at my social media to find my mom. My Instagram is really easy, it's just my first name and last, @courtneyreum. If you find another one of those, I would be shocked, so it should be easy to find me there. M13.co, not .com, .co because it's more trendy now.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, is it? Okay.
Courtney Reum:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
I learn so much from you Courtney.
Courtney Reum:
Yeah. I don't do a ton with LinkedIn, but I think I've gotten about three or four requests since we've been sitting here, so that's the world we're living in, and our book, shortcutyourstartup.com, there's a website, and then of course, since the whole world is on Amazon Prime, you can certainly find us there too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Courtney, I'm so excited to see how much more you accomplish. You're so impressive. Congratulations on everything.
Courtney Reum:
Thank you so much for having me. It's been a lot of fun.
Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on Courtney's money story and what he had to say. Financial grownup tip number one. We focused primarily on the fact that Courtney's parents did spend a lot of time preparing or money on everyday meals, and left that to the once a week sushi splurge, but Courtney also said something very important, and that is that they ate together as a family pretty much every night. Research has shown that leads to high achievement in kids, specifically dinnertime conversation boosts vocabulary for young kids, and for school-age kids, regular mealtime is a powerful predictor of high achievement scores, more so than time spent in school, doing homework, playing sports and doing art.
Bobbi Rebell:
There's even more. Other research found that teenagers who ate family meals five to seven times a week were twice as likely to get As in school as those who ate two or fewer times a week with their families. Full disclosure here, I am aspiring to this, it is not happening yet, so I'm going to put that on my fall to do list. I will leave a link to the research in the show notes. If you want to learn more, you can find those show notes at bobbirebell.com/podcast/courtneyreum. C-O-U-R-T-N-E-Y-R-E-U-M.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Courtney talks about checking the bill, and how the mistakes are usually not in your favor. No matter how much money you have, check the bill. I'm not alone in having caught so many things on bills that just should not be there. It happens so much, and as for tipping, I do believe you still aren't expected to tip on the tax, even though tipping expectations have certainly gone up in recent years.
Bobbi Rebell:
By the way my friends, did you catch the random knowledge about phone numbers that Courtney shared? Rewind if you need to. I was fascinated. Maybe everyone knows that and I'm the only one. Anyway, Courtney crammed some amazing wisdom into this episode, raising the bar for my future guests, just saying. Keep an eye on this guy, and thanks Courtney, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
As a young woman in New York City, Randi Zuckerberg, author of “Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day)" was struggling financially. Her mom, knowing the financial strain, came armed with… luxury goods. Think Jimmy Choo shoes. But as Randi explains, the designer duds were part of a very intentional lesson, that put Randi right on track to being a financial grownup.
In Randi’s money story you will learn:
-How Randi struggled to make ends meet on her first salary of just $28,000
-Why Randi’s mom would take her out and buy her luxury goods, but not help her with her every day expenses
-What Randi did when she literally could not afford to buy a metrocard for the NYC bus and subway
In Randi’s money lesson you will learn:
-How her mother’s strategy helped Randi find her path to financial independence
-If Randi still has all those shoes!
-The one thing Randi would change when she teachers her own children about money
In Randi’s money tip you will learn:
-Why she is paying attention to Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency
-How you can learn more about Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency
In My Take you will learn:
-How to manage social media envy
-The specific thing you can do with your own social media content to improve your experience and that of your friends
-Why and how you can learn more about bitcoin and cryptocurrency
Episode Links:
Learn more about Randi on her website Zuckerbergmedia.com
Get Randi’s book! Pick Three: You Can Have it All, Just Not Every Day
Learn about Cryptocurrency from Randi in this tutorial
Follow Randi!
Facebook Randi Zuckerberg
Instagram @RandiZuckerberg
Twitter @RandiZuckerberg
Also mentioned
Statement Event
Empower App
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.
Randi Zuckerber:
You know, I would turn to her and I would be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope."
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, my friend Randi Zuckerberg is known for a lot of things. It would take an entire podcast to name them all, so some highlights. She is a bestselling author of Dot Complicated, a Broadway actress and singer with a head star in Rock of Ages. She is the founder and CEO of Zuckerberg Media. Randi is also the force behind Sue's Tech Kitchen, she's got her weekly Sirius XM show, and oh, by the way, she created this little thing called Facebook Live. But her most recent project is Pick Three, which is a book about priorities, and with all that Randi has going on you bet she has had to get a handle on how to focus on what matters most, even if that changes every day. Here is Randi Zuckerberg.
Bobbi Rebell:
Randi Zuckerberg, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Randi Zuckerber:
Thanks so much Bobbi, it's great to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Major congratulations, another, in this case soon-to-be bestseller, your new book Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day). We're going to talk more about that later on, but just high level, this is something you've had in your head basically for your whole adult life. Tell us briefly about the concept, and then we'll do more about the book later.
Randi Zuckerber:
Sure. Well, we're all juggling so many things. I know you and I, we both, we're entrepreneurs, we're moms, I feel like there's so much pressure on all of us to be perfect at everything we do. Especially you log onto Instagram and everyone's lives look so perfect and so amazing, and then it's easy to sit there and think, "Gosh, how come I don't have my act together? Why don't I have it all and have that perfect balance?" And what I've really started to feel over the years is that it's just, it's time for us to stop carrying so much guilt around. Nobody has it all. Nobody has perfect balance, no matter what their lives might look like on Instagram. And so when I thought about the times in my life I felt most proud of my accomplishments, it was not when I was balanced. It was when I gave myself permission to just prioritize and go for it in a few areas of my life, so that's what I'm writing about. It's called Pick Three, and it's work, sleep, family, friends, fitness - pick three.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And by the way, just to show how much I love this book and how obsessed I am, I actually made notes in the book already. You can learn more about Randy's philosophy on social media and how our lives always look better online, page 211. That was one of the things that I flagged. So that's how good her book is, I have a book full of little post-it notes. Okay, we're going to go back to the book, but I want to talk about your money story, because it's something that I actually related to, because something very similar happened when I was a young adult, in my case also in New York City. Tell us your money story, because it has to do with the way that your mother taught you to earn your own money, but yet still was supporting you in different ways.
Randi Zuckerber:
Totally. And it's funny, because I didn't really learn the lesson of this story until many years later. In the moment, it felt kind of random, and now I'm so thankful to my mom for that. So in the book I go a bit deeper into the story, but when I was right out of college I landed a job at an ad agency. I was making I think $28,000.00 a year, which to live in Manhattan, that just doesn't work. I was in this apartment that was probably supposed to be a one-bedroom but there were four of us that were living in it, and my part of the apartment was a fake wall partitioning off a corner of the living room.
Bobbi Rebell:
Probably illegal, too.
Randi Zuckerber:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
We know all about those.
Randi Zuckerber:
Yes, I'm sure it was illegal, and it was taking up an entire paycheck every month. And my mom lived about an hour outside of the city. We've always been such close friends, my mom and I, and she would come into the city to take me out for dinner because I definitely couldn't afford to go to a restaurant on my own. And then she would be like, "Let me help you out," and she would take me shopping, and she would buy me fancy shoes. Like Jimmy Choo. Like the fancy-
Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you going in the Jimmy Choos?
Randi Zuckerber:
I know. And I would be like, "Mom, that's so nice of you to buy me Jimmy Choo shoes, but can you help me pay my rent? That's where I really need help."
Bobbi Rebell:
At one point you couldn't buy a Metro Card, right?
Randi Zuckerber:
That's right. There was one month that I had to walk everywhere because I didn't budget well, and I couldn't afford the $120.00 or whatever it was at that time for a monthly Metro Card. And so I walked everywhere in Manhattan for a month. That's kind of the state of how I was living.
Bobbi Rebell:
Were you walking everywhere in the Jimmy Choos, though?
Randi Zuckerber:
I know, right? Luckily I had fancy shoes to walk in, so you know, good for that. But I would turn to her and I'd be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope." She was like, "You know, it's really important that you make it on your own, you're a professional woman. It's really important that you cover the basics of your life on your own." She's like, "But I'm here to show you what to aspire to."
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Randi Zuckerber:
"The reason that you're working hard and to show you that it's okay when you do make that money later in life to treat yourself, and just spend a little bit of that money on yourself."
Bobbi Rebell:
Nice. So for our listeners, what is the lesson from that? What is the takeaway? How can they apply it to their own lives?
Randi Zuckerber:
For me at the time, it definitely felt a little frustrating. It was frustrating that I could barely afford a Metro Card but I had this closet full of beautiful designer shoes. But at the end, when I do look back now on those periods of my life, I'm proud of myself for supporting myself. Even though it was hard. Even though I was barely making any money at all, I look back on those years with pride that I took care of all my own living expenses, that I made it on my own. And I actually still have those Jimmy Choo shoes in my closet as a reminder, the first big girl items that I really ever owned, and they always serve as a reminder to me that the reason that we work so hard in life is not just to accumulate wealth or status. It's so we can treat ourselves and we can treat the people we love, and we can really enjoy our lives and our money.
Bobbi Rebell:
And so would you do the same lesson with your own children, knowing what you know now?
Randi Zuckerber:
Maybe I would keep the receipt in the box in case they needed to return it to help pay their rent. My mom used to take-
Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, did you ever try to return the shoes?
Randi Zuckerber:
No, she purposely would take the receipts home with her so I couldn't, and in those days there wasn't eBay to sell them on or things like that. But honestly, if my kids were motivated and ambitious and driven enough to think of ways to resell them, then that's great, that's teaching them an entrepreneurial lesson.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your money tip, because it's something we haven't talked about here on Financial Grownup, in part because I don't know a lot about it, and that's kind of your point. What is your money tip?
Randi Zuckerber:
So my money tip is to make sure that you're not just focusing all of your effort on learning about the systems that are already in place. Make sure that you're spending some time thinking about the new financial trends that are going to be coming out in the next few years. Specifically I think the biggest trend that's going to hit this industry is cryptocurrency and blockchain. I know I've personally spent a lot of time over the past two years learning about this space and educating myself, and I think it's so important for women especially to learn about this space, because right now only about 2% of cryptocurrency is owned and traded by women. And ladies, what's the use of catching up with our financial knowledge over here if we're then just going to be completely left behind in ten years on the next new thing that's making all of these new millionaires? I don't know about you guys, I don't want to be left out of the next thing that's making all these millionaires, so I think it's really important, even if you're not investing in this space, to at least understand it enough to be able to participate.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where is the best place people can learn more about it?
Randi Zuckerber:
I love listening to a lot of podcasts. I actually am so passionate about educating women that I literally just sat in my closet with a microphone this week and recorded a two-hour introduction to Bitcoin and Blockchain that I'm about to release. So I'll definitely give you more information on that, and it's specifically designed to teach women the basics of crypto.
Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. So now we have where we can go, I will make sure to put the link into the show notes for everyone. So that's your gift to our listeners, thank you so much, Randi. This is great. Okay, so now we get back to what I really want to talk about. So I've got this book here with all of these ... I almost ran out of post-it notes, because I have so many post-it notes in the book, and we have to keep it short because this is a short podcast. But it's basically about being lopsided and being okay with that. And that's almost how you got into college, was just saying, "I'm not going to apologize for not being balanced."
Randi Zuckerber:
Totally, well I think, and I'm sure, Bobbi, when you think about the things in your life you're most proud of, the things you hope we're alive to tell our great-grandkids about, each of us have three or four things on that list that we're super proud of. It's probably not times in your life that you were super well-balanced. For me, that list right now is completing a marathon, singing on Broadway, being part of Facebook, and having my two children, and not one of those four things happened when I had balance in my life.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Randi Zuckerber:
All of those things happened when I really allowed myself to just go for it and be super lopsided and prioritize a few areas in my life at one time. And so I want to give especially women out there permission to pick three. Pick a few things in your life that you want to prioritize, because there will be other times and other phases to pick other things and round out your life. But just give yourself the permission to go for it and be excellent in whatever you want to do without the guilt.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. One of my favorite areas was when you talk about quick fixes if you're feeling exhausted, and I say that because this book is also very practical, because people feel overwhelmed and there are very specific solutions in the book. Even at the end there's worksheets so that people can make it applicable to their own lives and really make it specific and actionable.
Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you, well you know, I live in the real world. In an ideal world we'd all be getting a lot of sleep every night, and going to the gym, and spending time with our children every day, and doing all of these things, but at the end of the day we all live in the real world, and I know that there's some days that you just cannot pick sleep. Your kids are sick, you have a deadline at work, there's something going on, you have an early plane to catch, so I tried to also, while encouraging people to pick different areas, also tried to give some hacks to actually get around it and still function in your life if you can't pick that one area.
Bobbi Rebell:
So it's three, and the five things that you're picking three from are sleep, work, friends, family and fitness, and the great thing about the book is you break down each one.
Randi Zuckerber:
Yes. I try to break it down, and I also really tried to interview a mixture of people across all ages and walks of life. Because if you're in the position that you can pick which areas of your life you want to prioritize then you're in a real state of privilege, that everything in your life is going so well that you can choose. There are a lot of people out there who have life circumstances where they just can't choose what they want to focus on. Life picks for them. And so I wanted to make sure that all different people are represented.
Bobbi Rebell:
Randi, where can people find you and learn more about everything you're up to, including Pick Three?
Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much, I have been known to be available on a few social media channels.
Bobbi Rebell:
A few.
Randi Zuckerber:
Yup, [inaudible 00:13:14] Facebook, and one's owned by Facebook. But yes, you can find me on Facebook, on Instagram and Twitter, I'm @randizuckerberg, and then Pick Three is available on Amazon or any of your favorite bookstores. I love indie bookstores and promoting them, so go pick it up at a cool indie bookstore near you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all, and keep in touch.
Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much Bobbi, this is awesome, love your podcast.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, I think we all have a good sense of how Randi stays so grounded despite literally being on the go all the time. I have been personal witness to that. Prioritize and keep perspective.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: You may have noticed that one area of Randi's book really hit me. All of our lives look like so much fun online. So many of us, myself included, have felt a little wistful when we see photos and videos of friends who always seem to be vacationing while in the perfect outfit, and going to a fantastic concert where of course they get to see Beyonce and hang out with her and Jay-Z backstage. Just kidding, but only about part of that. But we are all actually usually happy that they're having fun, it's not necessarily competitive, but still. Remember, it is a curated version of their life. Real life can't be edited, and filters don't work outside of the digital world. Randi's advice that really resonates with me? Flip that back to what you can control, and be a little more intentional about what you post, about the image that you put out there to other people. Don't just post your own perfect moments, try to be more authentic with your social media, and maybe we'll all get the hint and be a little more real.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's all go out and learn about Bitcoin. I said learn, not invest, though you can if it's right for you. The truth is, as Randi said, we may be missing a big opportunity. I always think of famous investors like Warren Buffett who say they don't invest in anything they don't understand. So let's understand and make a decision from a point of understanding and information. I was recently at a retreat called Statement Event, it was women thought leaders, a very small group of us, about 17. We had dinner with a CEO of a company called Empower, and he asked this group of all women how many of us talked about Bitcoin as an investment option for our followers or listeners. The room got silent. He asked, had we really investigated? Nope. I'm going to check out Randi's tutorial, and I will leave the link for you guys as well. Let me know what you think. Make sure to pick up your copy of her new book, Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day) and write a review for Randi. Authors love reviews.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. The show has been growing, so please keep sharing on social media, writing reviews on iTunes aka Apple Podcast, and subscribing if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a money story that you want to share? Maybe a great money tip? We are starting to have listeners as guests once a month, so to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and just tell us what money story and money tip you would share if you are chosen.
Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, Facebook I am at Bobbi Rebell. Randi Zuckerberg really nailed it in this episode, helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
The Opposite of Spoiled author Ron Lieber dishes on the underground network he tapped into as a teen to ace the financial aid game- and gives a sneak peak into his next book “What to Pay for College".Plus Ron’s secret to getting hot tickets at below market prices- Including the Cubs.
In Ron’s money story you will learn:
-How Ron got the inside track on how to maximize financial aid for college
-How much Ron took out in loans for school and how long it took to pay it back
-Ron’s theory on how grownup’s can help cut through the information overload and get to the important information
-Insight into how Ron researches his columns for the NYTimes
-The significance of Ron’s mom taking him to meet with "the guy”
In Ron’s money lesson you will learn:
-Ron’s advice on how to learn about the options to pay for college now
-The one thing you should not do that could hurt your ability to get the maximum financial aid
-Why financial aid applications have become so complicated over time
-Specific resources from Ron to learn more about how to pay for college, before his book comes out
In Ron’s money tip you will learn:
-About his love of experiences like concerts and baseball games
-How he is able to get discount tickets to events
-The specific strategy, including the timeline, that Ron uses to get the best prices on tickets
-The best ticket score Ron ever got, and why he was so excited about the show!
In My Take you will learn:
-How I went on a “Mentor Tour” a few years ago, before launching the Financial Grownup brand
-Why I agree with Ron, that consulting people who know more about something that you do, can be the best way to get an edge on a new venture, whether it is college, or launching a business.
-The value add of an in-person conversation compared to doing internet research
-The importance of making children aware of the costs of higher education, whether or not they pay for part or all of it.
EPISODE LINKS
Ron Lieber’s website: http://ronlieber.com
Ron’s NY Times Columns: NYTimes.com/Lieber
Get Ron’s book The Opposite of Spoiled
Learn more about Ron’s upcoming book “What to pay for college”
Resources recommended by Ron Lieber
Paying for College without going Broke by Kal Cheney
SavingforCollege.com
Follow Ron!!
Twitter @RonLieber
Instagram @ronlieber
Facebook.com/RonLieberAuthor
StubHub is where Ron goes to get last minute discount tickets!
Transcription
Ron Lieber:
Somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to financial grown up with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup and you know what being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's OK. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So Ron Lieber, famous, very famous New York Time's money columnist, super nice guy, also the author of the upcoming book What to Pay for College, the best seller The Opposite of Spoiled. He knew a guy. As he describes it it was basically an underground financial aid information network. This really happened. Before we get to Ron's unbelievable story, can't believe this really happened, I do want to welcome new listeners. And of course welcome back those who are returning. The show's been growing and I'm so happy you guys are spreading the word. So thank you in advance for any more spreading the word that you do. Please tell friends about Financial Grownup if you're enjoying it. I'm also happy that you guys are enjoying the video promos that we do for each episode. A reminder if you want one for you or your business we are having a little competition. Whenever you see the video in social media, share it. Whoever shares it the most between now and July 1st I will make a customized video just for you. So a little experimental competition we're having here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And if you have a great money story, you want to be on the show, we want to hear from you. E-mail us at info at financialgrownup.com, tell us what your money story would be and what your everyday money tip would be and maybe you'll be selected to be featured on the program. We have our first listener episode coming up soon. Now to Ron Lieber. My first exposure to his writing came when I read his bestselling book The Opposite of Spoiled, Raising Kids Who Are Grounded, Generous and Smart About Money. And yes I have used his strategies in my own home. I am also now an avid fan of his New York Times column, Your Money. In it Ron sheds light on issues that touch so many of us and with real solid reporting behind it. So that's something as a journalist I really value and appreciate. He's really good at what he does and as a parent I can't wait to read his upcoming book What to Pay for College. An entirely new guide to the biggest financial decision your family will ever make. But first you get to hear this story about a guy. Here is Ron lever.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Ron Lieber, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Ron Lieber:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
We're so excited to have you. You are the author of one of my favorite books, The Opposite of Spoiled which has set the standard for so many families including my own. We have our three save/spend/give jars in our house for my 10 year old. So thank you for that. And I know you have a new project.
Ron Lieber:
Yes I'm working on a book right now called What To Pay For College which is all about when if ever it is worth paying more than whatever your flagship state university costs for a private college or an out of state public university or something else entirely.
Bobbi Rebell:
Something we all need to be thinking about. What I want to hear for your money story though is about your experience when you were younger visiting the financial aid consultant with your mom when you were a senior in high school. Tell us what happened.
Ron Lieber:
So there I was. 1988. Chicago, Illinois. Already a scholarship kid at the K to 12 private school I attended back then. We didn't know very much about financial aid, somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see it in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.
Bobbi Rebell:
No.
Ron Lieber:
[crosstalk 00:04:26] God forsaken FAFSA form. Yeah, he knew exactly what he was talking about. I got into college at Amherst early decision, got a fantastic financial aid package and graduated with under $10,000 in student loan debt which wasn't all that much at the time and got it paid off in 10 years.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, but we got to go back Ron. So what are some of the secrets that he told you?
Ron Lieber:
It was a reminder that there is always some financial grownup out there in the world who has the information that you seek and quite often if you just had the guts to pick up the phone or show up in their office maybe with a little bit of cash on the barrel that person will tell you the secrets of whatever code you're trying to crack, whatever system you're trying to beat. There is a grownup out there somewhere who can help you. And you know every time I go out and write a column for The Times I'm looking for that one financial grownup who has the answer and they're always out there somewhere.
Ron Lieber:
But the second thing and maybe the most important thing here came from the fact that my mother took me there in the first place. She could have left me at home. She might have felt anxiety about the situation we were in or ashamed that we were going to have to go hat in hand to all these schools you know asking for money. But she felt like I at the age of 17 ought to have a front row seat for that process because it was going to be my education and my debt. And I tried to remember that when I'm tempted to shield my older daughter who's now 12 from whatever financial dilemma that my family is facing. She's old enough to hear a fair bit of this and I want her to understand.
Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever circled back to your mom and asked her why she took you in and what was going on in her mind at that time?
Ron Lieber:
You know I did a couple of years ago as I started thinking about this guy again. I actually tracked him down on the plains of Colorado where he's gone to retire from financial aid. And he remembered me and we chatted about it and he said the thing that always surprised him was when the parents came without the kid. So you know he gave my mom great credit. And you know my mom to her credit to this day you know doesn't shield me from you know any financial dilemma she's facing.
Bobbi Rebell:
How did she find this guy?
Ron Lieber:
The people at my private high school in Chicago just did not know a ton about financial aid and how it worked. But they said there's this guy. And you know it was literally a slip of paper with the guy's phone number on it, I'm not even sure there was a name and you know I just dialed the suburban Chicago area code and he picks up and he said yeah you know come to this address next Tuesday and bring me my money and we'll talk. And it was like a financial aid underground.
Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners now in 2018, what is the lesson from that? What's the takeaway?
Ron Lieber:
I think you always have to turn over every rock and talk to every person who might have information that can help you. Don't be ashamed of the fact that you don't understand. Every single last one of these financial systems that we encounter in our daily life is complex. Often they are complex by design. Sometimes they're complex by accident right. In the case of the financial aid industry loan systems, you know layers of people over the decades have layered you know different levels of complexity onto this. All in the hope that they can help some or another student who might be disadvantaged by the last layer that was laid on right. What we end up with is you know eight student loan programs and nine different income driven repayment plans and you know two different ways the financial aid is calculated at most colleges and it's really confusing so ask for help, you know express your ignorance and demand information. Right. I mean if you're approaching a system that has a sticker price of over $300,000 now at the most expensive selective colleges. You have a right to demand more information and to get some answers so don't be sheepish about it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Are there specific resources that you would recommend?
Ron Lieber:
Well here's the problem right and the reason I'm working on What to Pay for College is that I don't actually believe that the perfect resource exists. But if you're looking for like nuts and bolts of financial aid I really like Cal Cheney's book Paying for College Without Going Broke. It's about the best book that I've seen about the financial aid system. And if you're thinking about saving for college and how to do that the book that the folks at savingforcollege.com published is quite good if you want to know about the ins and outs of 529 plans and all of the various complexities there and there are a fair number.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right well this is why we need your book. I'm going to hear more about your book in a second but I want to just get to your money tip because we talked before we started recording and you apparently have a concert ticket problem. And I think a lot of people can relate to this, especially coming into the summer, it's time we all like to go see our favorite artist. Tell us Ron.
Ron Lieber:
I'm constantly wrestling with you know how much should I spend for the possibility of you know close up literally experience that's going to make me happy. I do often snipe my way through StubHub. So instead of buying tickets you know weeks or even months ahead of time if it's something where I'm pretty sure there's still going to be a lot of tickets at the end I will wait and I will wait and I will wait until sometimes less than an hour before showtime or before play ball. You know and buy my tickets as I watch the prices fall in ten minute increments, you know every five minutes. You know that was how I saw Phish on New Year's Eve a couple of years ago for not very much at all. Of course there's always some risk involved that all the tickets will disappear. But you can watch and see. You know are there dozens left, hundreds or thousands. Right. Are the tickets disappearing quickly or not. You know you can keep track, make a little spreadsheet for yourself as you watch as the date or the hour approaches. You know but what I often see with concerts is that you know the price will start falling relatively quickly you know within a couple hours of showtime. You know then you just grab the point at which you feel comfortable paying the price. And at that point you can generally download the tickets instantly.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what's been your best score?
Ron Lieber:
I think the best score was probably those Phish tickets on New Year's Eve. Although whenever the Cubs come to town to play the Mets as they are doing in a week or so here in New York City I'll often use this method as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. So you are actually on a break from your full time job at the New York Times because you're working on your new project. Tell us more about that.
Ron Lieber:
Sure. So the book is called What To Pay For College, it will be out sometime in 2020. No pre-orders yet. You know for anybody who's interested in kind of where I'm heading with it you know you can find hints of it in the columns that I've written for The Times about higher education. You know I read a handful each year and my archive is at nytimes.com/lieber and the book questions I'm asking are born of really a half decade of observation where without anyone really noticing the rack rate at the most expensive private schools top $300,000 for four years, flagship state universities now regularly cost $100,000 dollars or more for four years. You've got a $200,000 difference between those two things. That's per child after taxes. Almost nobody can save that much money. This is insane.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. It is insane.
Ron Lieber:
Yeah so the question then becomes what if anything are you actually getting for that $200? And if you go asking those questions at the more expensive colleges they will look at you cross-eyed and if you ask for data to prove that the extra $200,000 is worth it and there are a lot of different ways to potentially define worth, which I'm exploring in my reporting, if you just ask that right, well why do you think it's worth it and show me some numbers right. Here we are in the era of big data where you can get a ton of information about your social plan or about your car or about the house you want to buy, you can just round in data on all that stuff. There is almost no data about what happens to you when you're at college and what happens to you afterwards. And it is my suspicion that the colleges actually like it that way because in the absence of data we make decisions on the basis of snobbery. Private is better than public.
Bobbi Rebell:
So true.
Ron Lieber:
Right, you know ivy covered walls are better than you know concrete 1970s Britos architecture. Right. So I'm going down all these rows and asking all of the impertinent questions and I'm going to have a lot to say about it very soon.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right well I'm hoping you can hook me up with a preview sometime soon because I will need to read that. I've got kids in college so I am very excited about this new project. Where can people find you and learn more about what you're writing in the meantime?
Ron Lieber:
Sure. Www.ronlieber.com, there's a big fat contact button for anybody who has a story to share about how they and their family decided what they should pay for college.
Bobbi Rebell:
And on social media?
Ron Lieber:
@RonLieber all over the place, you know on Twitter, on Instagram and the Facebook community that I run on parenting and money is at Facebook.com, Ron Lieber author.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome, thank you so much Ron. This has been amazing.
Ron Lieber:
It was a pleasure.
Bobbi Rebell:
So Ron's sincerity is contagious and his book is definitely needed. As he mentioned he wants to hear from all of you about your experiences. So share yours with him, as he said all the info is at his Web site, ronlieber.com. Here's my take on what Ron shared with us. Financial grownup tip number one. As Ron said, there is a grownup there who can help you. Don't be afraid to reach out to older and/or more experienced people for help. Yes, the internet does have a lot of information but not always context. Sometimes just getting the scoop from a person, someone, who's got the dirt on whatever you need to know can be really meaningful, they can cut through a lot of the junk out there. Ask someone, call someone you know, ask someone who they would recommend that you talk to, set a meeting.
Bobbi Rebell:
When I was figuring out what I wanted to do after years of being a television anchor I went on what I jokingly called a mentor tour, setting up face to face meetings with anyone I admired who would generously give me their time and asking them who else I should talk to. And trust me mo internet research can take the place of the kind of information download that you can get from sitting face to face with somebody and asking them what they think, what their experience has been and what they think you should do. People are generous so take advantage of that. That will be good.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Financial grownup tip number two. Ron points out the significance of the fact that his mom took him with her to meet the guy. Ron learned that financial aid wasn't going to just appear. He knew that he was a stakeholder in the process and he appreciated the money that much more. We all want to shield our kids from the reality of our financial fragility but if we can get past our egos we do them a service by keeping them in the loop and making them aware of what it really takes to pay for college.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for spending part of your day with us. We make these podcasts relatively short to fit into your busy schedule but also so you can listen to a few in a row when it makes sense like during your commute, if you're watching your kids do an activity or just chilling out and you want to listen to a little bit more. You can listen to three or four at a time, make 45 minutes, listen to four, it could be an hour. Whatever works for you. The goal is to make it fit in with what you're doing and fit your life. If you enjoy the show please help us grow. We need you. Tell a friend, write a review on Apple Podcasts and follow us on social media. I am @BobbiRebell on Twitter, BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. Ron's new book can't come soon enough but I'm glad he gave us a sneak peek. And by the way also a great strategy for discount tickets so thanks Ron for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.
Consultant Julie Finn loved her her consumer products strategy career and says her employer, Deloitte, did everything possible to accommodate her lifestyle needs as a mom. So no one was more surprised than she was when she opted for an early exit strategy.
In Julie’s money story you will learn:
-How Julie left two major jobs but each one was a completely different exit strategy
-Julie’s strategy of applying the same financial criteria to job choices as wel do to other major financial choices like buying a home.
-How Julie’s employer, Deloitte, was family friendly and did what they could to accommodate her needs.
-Why the decision to leave was not an obvious one
-The advice she received from mentors that led her to her life changing decision
In Julie’s money lesson you will learn:
-As well-intentioned as an employer may be- the job may not be a fit forever
-Age should not hold you back from leaving a job that is no longer the right fit for your goals and needs
-The importance of structure and planning in making a major career shift- and how to get it
In Julie’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-The importance of continuing to learn even as you progress through your career
-The value of online courses as well as coaching
-How to save money on skill building education
-Not to try to go it alone- reach and and get the right help
-How to make decisions about priorities when it comes to investing in further career education
Bobbi and Julie also talk about:
-The Working Mothers Mentor Podcast
-Julie’s career coaching for executive women
-How side hustles can help in the decision making process
-How listeners can support working moms, especially who don’t know where to get the help they need
In My Take you will learn:
-The importance of a gracious exit from a company
-Why it is important strategically to stay in touch and on good terms with co-workers and supervisors even after you leave the job
-Ways to get discounts on online education courses
Episode Links
Learn more about Julie Finn and The Working Mother’s Mentor:
Theworkingmothersmentor
Follow Julie!
Twitter @mothersmentor
Instagram @theworkingmothersmentor
Facebook The Working Mothers Mentor + join her community!
IRS info on education deductions
https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc513
This is a quick way to determine if you can get an education credit
https://www.irs.gov/help/ita/am-i-eligible-to-claim-an-education-credit
Udemy https://www.udemy.com/
Coursera https://www.coursera.org/
Teachable www.teachable.com
Transcription
Julie Finn:
You know when I took a job, in my head it was my forever job. It was, "I'm going to retire from this company." Because I had the structure, because I had the support, I had a very clear plan and I had very clear strategy in place and that made all the difference.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up. With me, financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends. I remember my first day at my first post college job as what was called a news associate at CNBC and thinking, and this is true, "This is literally the best job on the planet. I can't believe I got the job. There's money associated. It comes every two weeks. I would literally be happy doing this job forever." I wanted it to be my forever job. I hope you guys have all had that feeling, the excitement and optimism of working somewhere you hope you can stay forever.
Bobbi Rebell:
That was Julie Finn at Deloit. She climbed her way up in the consumer product strategy field and had finally made it. They were super family friendly there. Whatever she needed, they were going to work with her to make it happen. But then, something changed. We'll get to that in a sec.
Bobbi Rebell:
But just quickly, welcome to our new listeners. So excited the show continues to be discovered and thank you to all of you regulars for sharing it. Please keep telling your friends. Word of mouth is everything. It is the best way for people to find out about our program. It matters a lot. We keep it short, as you guys know, around 15 minutes, but a lot of our listeners like to stack a few together. Think of it like flex time for podcasts.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Julie. She is a business coach and host of the Working Mother's Mentor Podcast, but it was not long ago that she was in what she thought was her forever job, until we now know, it wasn't. The story gets really interesting. Here is Julie Finn.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Julie Finn. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Julie Finn:
Bobbi, thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm excited to learn so much from you because you are a business coach and you host the Working Mother Mentors Podcast, which is very popular. I hear you have some great guests on there.
Julie Finn:
Like you.
Bobbi Rebell:
You've actually turned a lot of your life experience into things that you are teaching so many others so that's great. Congratulations on all your success.
Julie Finn:
Thank you. I really appreciate it. It's been quite a journey. It's so fulfilling to be able to do work that you love and to know that you're serving others and empowering and inspiring others so it's been fantastic.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you brought a money story with you that has to do with something that can be very delicate and really has to be handled the right way in order to have the right financial future, financial exit, I should say and that is my not so sophisticated way of saying that you're going to talk about exit strategies and the different ways that you've handled them at different points in your career. Go for it.
Julie Finn:
Yes. That's exactly right and that's funny because when you sit down and think about it, career choices, the choices to take a job or to leave a job, are really some of the most important financial decisions that we make, but we often don't frame them that way. We frame buying a house or making an investment as a financial decision, but oftentimes when we think about career, we don't think about it that way. Particularly for those of us who have made decisions around leaving jobs later in our careers. I have two big leaps. One in my 30s and one in my 40s and those are massive decisions. When I look back over those choices that I've made, it's interesting to see how I've matured and I approached it very differently when I was in my 40s than I did when I was in my 30s.
Bobbi Rebell:
So let's get specific. Tell us what happened.
Julie Finn:
So when I was in my 30s, when I was making the decision to leave a job, it was really based on the fact that I'd just had my first child. I wanted to go part-time. I wasn't able to do that. I felt backed into a corner. It wasn't a positive, happy, leave. It wasn't a leave that was planned in advance. It wasn't strategized. It was more of a leap versus fast forward about ten years. I really worked hard with the company, and it was Deloit and they were super family friendly. They tried very hard to accommodate what I needed at that stage.
Julie Finn:
What I found is that dropping to part-time, which is what my intermediate solution was, wasn't the silver bullet that I envisioned it to be. I think for a lot of working moms, we think, "Wouldn't it be great if we could have a big corporate job with full benefits and work part-time and work from home?" That for me was the holy grail. It's what I had written down on a piece of paper that's what I wanted. That's what Deloit provided for me.
Julie Finn:
The decision to leave was not an obviously one. It was a really difficult one because I had a "good job". I knew that if I was going to make a leap from a job like that, it had to be based on something really compelling pulling me, and it had to be based on a really logical strategy.
Julie Finn:
What I did this time in making that decision, is I got support. I worked with coaches. I took online courses. I went to conferences. I made sure that I surrounded myself with others who made similar decisions. I sought out support from my mentors. It made the decision a positive one and it made the transition a successful one.
Julie Finn:
I found that even though I loved my company and I had a great time, I wasn't passionate about the work and I knew there was other work I wanted to be doing. Historically, I did consumer product strategy which is great training and I got to work with a lot of great clients and great people, but what I'm passionate about is inspiring and supporting women, particularly professional women in living the big life that they are here on earth to live, to overcome the fears and the doubts, to stand in their power.
Julie Finn:
I got frustrated working with so many really smart women who would doubt themselves and who often were making trade offs when children came into the mix and they didn't really know how to handle it. That's part of the reason why I started the Working Mothers Mentor, first as the podcast, to give people inspiring stories behind the scenes of really successful people to show you not only how they juggle everything but how they made career decisions, how they built their business, and to show you the messiness, not just the shiny, glossy stuff that you often see. Then also providing actual support through programs and coaching.
Julie Finn:
So the transition from Deloit has been a really positive one.
Bobbi Rebell:
And part of the takeaway of that is as good willed and as well intentioned as the company may be, that does not mean it is your forever job.
Julie Finn:
That's exactly right and that's part of the reason why it was such a hard decision because I was already over 40. When I took a job, in my head it was my forever job. It was, "I'm going to retire from this company." So making that decision to leap into entrepreneurship in my mid 40s, for a lot of people, it's a very scary time to make any kind of massive career change.
Julie Finn:
For me, part of my tip for people, is make sure if you're making any kind of pivot or massive change that you don't try to do it unsupported and you don't try to do it unguided.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from your story of leaving Deloit for your own entrepreneurial adventure?
Julie Finn:
The real lesson is don't make any big leap of any big decision unsupported and unguided. I think when I look back over the different decisions I've made in my career, early in my career I often felt like I was winging it whereas with this leap, because I had the structure, because I had the support, I had a very clear plan and I had very clear strategy in place and that made all the difference.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your every day money tip because that also goes along this theme but let's get very specific. What is it? What could people do?
Julie Finn:
I think it's very important for us all, all professionals whatever level you are, to continue to invest in yourself in terms of your education and your access to expertise. What I mean by that is in addition to reading books and having mentors, think about online courses, think about investing in a coach, think about going to conferences. I think for a lot of us, particularly when the busyness of family life and trying to keep our career on track, when that comes in development seems to disappear. We might do something in our company. They'll have professional development but I'm talking about you personally, things that are important for you.
Julie Finn:
For me, like I said, part of what made the decision easier is the fact that I invested. I took online courses to improve the skills where I needed. I invested in coaches to give me the confidence where I needed it, to give me the push where I needed it, to give me the guidance where I needed. The important lesson here is don't try to go it alone. Make sure that you continue to invest in yourself and that way when you are making these big decisions you're completely educated around them.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now are the ways that people who maybe tight on money can better afford these things because it can get expensive and where is the balance there? Because you're struggling to pay your bills, you want to build up things like and emergency fund so you maybe can take the leap to be an entrepreneur. How do you know how much is the right amount to spend in time and money.
Julie Finn:
That's a really great question. In terms of time, I think for a lot of us, we would say we don't have enough time. So it is about making the decision to prioritize. I think when you take a step back and look, you can certainly find maybe it's two hours a week, maybe it's for a season, maybe it's a weekend conference. It's about the prioritization, making the time.
Julie Finn:
In terms of money, we should all start to work on having a development part of our budget. Again, if you take a look at your budget and if you look at things that maybe you're spending money on, getting your nails done, or getting your hair done, or something that feels maybe a little bit less necessarily. If you took some of those resources and invested in attending a conference or working with a coach or if you can't afford a coach one on one, investing in a group coaching program. That's often a way to have access to a very seasoned, experienced coach but without having to pay the fee that you would pay for one on one attention.
Julie Finn:
I think the other thing is there are a lot of great platforms where you can access online platforms that are less expensive like Udemy, Teachable. So you can find courses for as little as $69. Some of the more sophisticated courses obviously can cost you a thousand, two thousand dollars, but you can get started with any budget.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much. So tell us more about what's going on with you, because I know you offer some of this.
Julie Finn:
Yeah. We're having a great time over at the Working Mothers Mentors. In addition to the podcast, we have a group coaching program that's launching soon. That's really designed to support women who are considering leaving their corporate jobs in order to start a business either as what a lot of people affectionately call a side hustle or to fully replace their full time income. We also offer group coaching and one on one coaching programs. The idea is really to support working moms who often feel like they're juggling so much and they don't really know where to go for support. That's really our mission.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you a few years ago? I needed you so much. I'm so happy that you're here now though doing all this for so many people that will really benefit from it.
Julie Finn:
Thank you so much. That's exactly why I do it. I needed me ten years ago and I needed me again three years ago and I couldn't find me and so I decided to become me. So thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Before I let you go, tell us all the social channels and where people can find you.
Julie Finn:
Our website is theworkingmothersmentor.com and that's a great hub to find out more about our coaching programs, to find out more about the podcast. The podcast also called the Working Mother's Mentor. You can certainly access on any platform where you currently listen to podcasts like your podcast. On social, you can find you on Facebook and Instagram @theworkingmothersmentor. Twitter @mothersmentor and me personally, Julie Finn, on LinkedIn.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're the best, Julie.
Julie Finn:
Thank you, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So companies have a long way to go towards keeping more women in the workplace, but Julie's story at least shows real progress at some. No hard feelings, it just didn't work out.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip #1: If and when you leave a company, take a we from Julie and be gracious. As great as Julie's story is, sometimes we don't have the best feelings when we leave a job, and it is really tempting to let them have it, but the truth is, those former coworkers and bosses could well become the best assets you have in your future business ventures.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip #2: Julie mentioned the importance of investing in continuing education throughout your career. You know I'm a big fan of this. Many online courses are actually free and those that are not often go on sale. Sometimes your employer will pay for your classes. Make sure that you know if there are any requirements like getting a certain grade. If your employer does not pay, you can also often deduct education from your taxes if it meets certain criteria.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm going to leave some links in the show notes bobbirebell.com/podcast/JuliFinn. I was also leave links to some popular online course websites like Udemy, which often has sales as I mentioned, classes can be under $10 there, and Coursera which has partnerships with universities including my alma mater, Penn.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to Julie for candidly sharing her amicable breakup. It is one thing to storm out of a job you hate. It's another to just well not be that into it anymore and leave in search of finding your true love in terms of your career.
Bobbi Rebell:
So thank you to Julie for helping us realize sometimes life isn't so clear cut and getting us one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.
Legendary entrepreneur Shelley Zalis, Founder and CEO of The Female Quotient, The Girls Lounge, FQ Talent and FQ Impact, knew she needed to be fearless when she started her first company Online Testing Exchange. So when her relatives offered to fund the venture, she turned down the money, choosing instead to go to outside investors.
In Shelley’s money story you will learn:
-How she had an idea to disrupt the online research field
-The pivotal decision she had to make when it came to raising the million dollars she needed to get her company started
-The concerns she had about her ability to take risks with family financing
-How her strong track record and achievements in the industry allowed her relatively easy access to financing her dream company
-Examples of specific risks she was able to take because she was not emotionally connected to her funding
In Shelley’s money lesson you will learn:
-The danger of being greedy and not wanting to share equity by taking outside financing
-The importance of making bold decisions and not playing it too safe when starting and building a business
In Shelley’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-The best ways to manage giving
-Shelley’s strategy to make sure the businesses she supports get the financing they need
-How Shelley makes sure her donations are always used as she intended
Bobbi and Shelley also talk about:
-Her latest venture, The Female Quotient
-The growing components of The Female Quotient including The Girls Lounge
-How The Female Quotient evolved from the Intelligence Quotient, and then the Emotional Quotient
-Men are welcome in the Girls Lounge
-The Girls Lounge is launching permanently on university campuses in over 122 countries
-FQ Talent and FQ Impact will launch soon
In My Take you will learn:
-The way to apply Shelley’s strategy to businesses you want to support
-Strategies to gain the experience and industry respect to be able to get others to buy in to your dreams when you go looking for funding
Episode links
Learn more about The Female Quotient https://www.thefemalequotient.com/
Follow Shelley and The Female Quotient!
Twitter: @shelleyzalis @wearetfq
Instagram @shelleyzalis @wearetfq
Facebook: Shelley Zalis The Female Quotient
Transcription
Shelley Zalis:
I thought well if I take my husband's and my parent's money, I would be too afraid to take chances. We always say, if you're building something new, you gotta be bold and brave and willing to take risks and fail before you succeed, but failure wouldn't have been an option and I did not want to play it safe. I needed to go way out there and take some significant risk.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of 'How To Be a Financial Grown up'. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grownups. It sounds like a dream come true to be able to avoid outside financing when you're starting a business. Keep it in the family, right? But let's be honest, how much risk would you really take with your parents or your spouse's money? And as our guest Shelley Zalis makes very clear, you need that risk to succeed. Not all money is created equal when it comes to funding startups. Welcome everyone. The show continues to grow, so thanks to all of you who have been telling your friends. If you're new, we work on flextime here. The podcast runs about 15 minutes or so. So pretty much anyone can fit it into their schedule, but if you have more time, go ahead and binge.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about Shelley Zalis. I first met her or should I say I first witnessed Shelley taking total command of a room of mesmerized women about a year ago. I was fortunate to be included in a dinner that she hosted and have been in awe ever since. She is a force. She is a disruptor in the online research business with OTX, Online Testing Exchange, that was her first company and now is taking aim at equality with The Female Quotient. Here is Shelley Zalis.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Shelley Zalis, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Shelley Zalis:
Oh, thank you. I hope I never grow up though, because once you're grown up, you feel you never have the opportunity to keep learning and I learn every day. So I hope that I never grow up. I guess I'm like Peter Pan-
Bobbi Rebell:
Just financially.
Shelley Zalis:
Okay.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you can find all your youthful adventures, right?
Shelley Zalis:
I'll take it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Shelley Zalis:
Perfect.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm a huge fan of your company. You're CEO of The Female Quotient, which of course encompasses the Girls' Lounge. Tell us just a little bit about what it is before we get to your money story.
Shelley Zalis:
Thank you. First of all, I am your greatest fan 'cause you make every conversation, whether it's complicated or easy, fun, interactive, engaging-
Bobbi Rebell:
Well thank you.
Shelley Zalis:
And with solutions for change. So thank you for doing what you do as well. The Female Quotient, the name came ... first came the Intelligence Quotient, IQ, then the Emotional Quotient EQ, now the Female Quotient, FQ. When you put women in any equation, the equation gets better so that we can start creating solutions around diversity. We say that diversity is good for business and yet we're going backwards. So The Female Quotient is in the business of equality and we have four key pillars, the Girls' Lounge. There's a boys club, why not have a girls' lounge, a place where the minority acts and feels like the majority. Men are welcome, but they come into our world with our rules and they all feel comfortable. And we will be launching a permanent Girls' Lounge on university campuses in over 122 countries. And then we'll also be launching the FQ Talent, a talent business for corporate women to bring more visibility to women doing remarkable things. And then we also have a practice of equality, helping companies become a quality fit because we can help women all we want, but if we don't rewrite the rules than women will continue to fall out in middle management or what we call the messy middle. And then the fourth is the FQ Impact, which is our giving back with generosity really to women in developing markets.
Bobbi Rebell:
All this costs money and a lot of that money came from Online Testing Exchange, which you built earlier in your career. You have a money ... Sort of share with us about a strategic decision that you made, a psychological strategic decision you made about how to finance your first business venture. Tell us your money story, Shelley.
Shelley Zalis:
I needed a million dollars because I met a 21 year old. I was doing website testing, usability testing and I thought, "What if we migrate research from offline to online?" And I said to him, "Trevor, why don't you build this for me?" I said, "But I have no money." And I said, "But the second someone gives you money, I'll give you a million dollars. So believe in me, invest in me and I will give it back in a very significant way." And so I needed a million dollars and I had two options, go to a big company and get them to buy in, or my husband and my father both agree to give me half a million dollars to realize my dream and they believed in me.
Shelley Zalis:
I thought about that. I thought well that's the easy way just to go to my family, but it was gonna be hard. My husband was just starting out in medicine. We did not have that kind of money. We would have been putting everything in our savings account into this and of course my father wanted to help out. And I thought well, if I take my husband's and my parent's money, I would be too afraid to take chances. We always say if you're building something new, you gotta be bold and brave and willing to take risks and fail before you succeed. But failure wouldn't have been an option if I had my family's option and I did not want to play it safe. I needed to go way out there and take some significant risk and so I did not take their money and I went to Nielsen and they were the first to fund me. And as soon as they said yes, I handed a 21 year old a million dollar check.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you already had a relationship with Nielsen?
Shelley Zalis:
Yep. I went to Nielsen. I said, "I have a big idea." And they said, "Great. What do you need?" I said, "I need a million dollars." And that is the check that I gave to this young man that just said yes to me, believed in me, not knowing what the results would become. But what I had was passion and purpose and an unstoppable mindset. And I went in saying, "I really want to try something new. I don't know if it's gonna work, but if it does, it's certainly gonna be a game changer." And I sold that same company three times. So they took a good risk and they also got a great reward as a result of saying yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
When you look back at those early days, do you feel that there are risks that you took? Is there a specific example you can think of, of a risk that you took that you may have been more hesitant to take had you been financed by your relatives, by your husband and your ... well really, you and your husband and your father?
Shelley Zalis:
Absolutely. The first risk I took when I got to Nielsen was I said to Nielsen, "Not only do we need to pay this young man a million dollars, but I'm going to go break into the movie business." I was very well known in the consumer packaged good business, but I decided to go after the movie business because they had two and a half minute trailers versus just 30 second spots. They tested a lot of content and they needed data within 48 hours and security was very important for them, because you could close the movie before it opens if people panned the trailer. And so I thought if I could build a system around the hardest thing possible than doing 30 second spots for products that are womb to tomb would be very simple. So I said to Nielsen, "I'm gonna go to the studios and everything they're testing offline ..." And there was a monopoly. One guy owned the research business for the movie ... for the movie industry. I said, "Everything they test offline, I want to parallel test for free online so I could calibrate the scores and build the model and build the technology that would work." And that was very risky and that was very expensive and I wouldn't have been able to take those chances if I couldn't go way out there and build the [echo system 00:08:06] very quickly by parallel testing.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Versus if you were investing ... If you had your father's money and your husband's money, you would have been watching every penny and maybe been a lot more reluctant to do something like that.
Shelley Zalis:
I would have played it safe and if you play it safe, there's no way you'll be really the first to own something. And I always said to myself, "I need to be the first, the second and the third." The first has to come up with this big idea, but they usually lose. So if I took my father and husband's money, I probably would have lost. So the first always comes up with a big idea. You have to make the investment, but you don't reap the benefit because the second one comes in, they copy everything you did, but they don't really know what's under the hood, and the third is the sweeper. You've now built an [echo system 00:08:53], everyone is buying in. They get the money and they win.
Bobbi Rebell:
So for our listeners, what is the takeaway here? What is the lesson for them, how they can apply it to their own lives?
Shelley Zalis:
Well I think number one, don't be greedy. Like had I've taken my husband's money and my father's money, I would have ... the equity would have stayed in the family and that was the positive. But the negative was I would have been risk averse and failure would not have been an option for me, and there is no companies that succeed building something that doesn't exist if you're not willing to fail before you succeed. Number two, when you are pioneering something that's never been done before, make sure you set yourself up in your own mind that you will have freedom to color out of the lines, that you're not gonna play it safe. You've gotta be bold, you've gotta be brave, you've gotta be willing to take chances, and you do need a partner that will support that mindset.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Let's talk about your everyday money tip now though, because it sort of flips where you're seated. Because now instead of being the one receiving the money, now you're in a position to support businesses that you believe in.
Shelley Zalis:
I once had someone come to me, they needed $100,000.00 to create a project that I thought was very worthwhile. And so of course I gave them $10,000.00 and I said, "Here's $10,000.00 towards the hundred thousand." As it turns out, they never raised the additional $90,000.00 that they needed and I never got my money back, and that really bothered me. That's hard worked money for me that I really gave to this organization to make something happen. So now I designate all of my giving and so if someone needs 100,000 and I'm planning to give 10, I will say to them, "You go get your 90,000 and I will give you the last 10 so that I know the project is a go." Or I will designate my giving. Of I'm gonna give 10,000 to something, I will buy three dogs sniffing dogs or I will buy three rehabilitation machines in Tel HaShomer Hospital or for my children's bar in Bar Mitzvahs. I said to them, "10% of what you get for your Bar Mitzvah, we're gonna give to an organization." And we built a gym for handicapped children and my kids were able to go and see that that actually happened. Because when you can see the results of your giving, you want to give more.
Shelley Zalis:
My mother always used to tell me that giving is like wearing a new pair of shoes. When you put them on the first time, it pinches but the more you wear them, the more comfortable you get. Like I just was at the MAKERS Conference recently and I met a young girl. She's 12 years old from India living in Colorado and she found a technology, a way to remove lead from water and she needed $25,000.00 for her dream and I thought, if they're asking everyone in the audience and someone says, "I'll give you 500, I'll give you a thousand." She might've ended up with 3,000 out of 25 and one, it would have been discouraging for her and two, she would not have been able to realize her dreams. If I'm gonna give, I want to know that it's gonna make a difference and help you go where you need to go.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. All right, Shelley. Let's talk quickly about the Girls' Lounge and The Female Quotient and what is happening in the rest of 2018.
Shelley Zalis:
Oh, thank you. So we are doing Girls' Lounge popups. It is a space, as I said before, where the minority acts and feels like the majority. A space for women to connect, collaborate, activate, change together, but more importantly to support each other and have unplugged conversations. So we have popups at pretty much every major industry. We will be rolling out on college campuses starting in September. We already opened two, but we'll be opening 200 universities at a time. We have access to 3,800 universities in 122 countries. Our FQ talent business will be launched in about three months. We are building it right now with wire frames.
Bobbi Rebell:
What will that be?
Shelley Zalis:
It will be a talent agency for senior women, placing women in keynotes. I'm just so sick of hearing that there's no women for keynote speeches-
Bobbi Rebell:
I know. I've heard that too, Shelley. It's amazing.
Shelley Zalis:
It's ridiculous. We have all the women, the women are all here. We have over 17,000 corporate women in our community that are all bad ass in their own regard with their own stories to tell. So no excuses. Sorry, not sorry. There's plenty of women. So if you don't find them, then that's just a poor excuse for not moving forward.
Bobbi Rebell:
Shelley, where can people find out more about all of this and be in touch with you and your team?
Shelley Zalis:
Thank you. You can follow us on social @shelleyzalis or @wearetfq and you can find us ... our website is The Female Quotient.
Bobbi Rebell:
Shelley, this has been amazing. Thank you so much.
Shelley Zalis:
Bobbi, you're amazing. Thank you for sharing our journey.
Bobbi Rebell:
All I can say is one day I hope I have the means to be able to make someone's dreams come true the way Shelley does. It's pretty incredible, but take her advice to heart. Financial grownup tip number one, when giving to a startup, maybe your friend is starting a business, has a page on Kickstarter. Don't be afraid to take a step back and see how they raised funds from other people first. If you wanna give something to show your support early on, well maybe make a small donation, but hold back and know what happens to your money if the project is not fully funded. Financial grownup tip number two, Shelley talks about being fearless and taking risks. But take that in the context of the fact that she already had a ton of experience in the industry. She knew what she was doing. Companies like Nielsen don't just hand you a million dollars. You need to know your stuff and have the credibility and the experience.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks so much for joining us. If you have not already, please subscribe and while you're there, make sure to go to settings and select auto downloads. You don't have to worry about missing any episodes and I want to hear your thoughts. DM on Instagram at bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell, and of course, sign up for our newsletter more about the podcast at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Shelley Zalis, truly fearless and so inspiring. Thank you Shelley for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Geometry of Wealth author Brian Portnoy invested time and money in an academic career, but made a career change that got a lot of backlash. But looking back that judgement only makes him more sure he made the right move.
In Brian’s money story you will learn:
-How and why he made a major career change after investing years of time and money
-His candid thoughts about the field he left, and why it did not live up to his admittedly unrealistic expectations
-The financial and social reality of academic life
-How he was able to detach from external expectations of him by colleagues, family and friends
-The role long-term relationships and staying connected played in his ability to shift his career
-Why he had not been more informed before choosing his initial career
-How his life, and his happiness changed once he moved to the new and higher paying job
In Brian’s money lesson you will learn:
-If a situation doesn’t feel right, it’s better to make the change
-Trust your gut if it doesn’t feel right
-Have the courage of your convictions to move forward
In Brian’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-How giving money can create contentment
-Research shows that people who demonstrate generosity tend to be happier
-What Brian calls constructively selfish- when you tip more to someone that needs the money more than you.
In My Take you will learn:
-My candid thoughts about not fully understanding the financial limitations of the career I chose
-Understanding not just the potential financial pay of an industry but also the culture and how that aligns with your values
Brian and Bobbi also talk about:
-Brian’s latest book “The Geometry of Wealth"
-What he means when he talks about a life of funded contentment
-How his book cuts through jargon
-The importance of defining what makes us happy before we start diving into investing
Episode Links
Learn ore about Brian at shapingwealth.com
Pick up a copy of Brian’s book: The Geometry of Wealth
Follow Brian!
Twitter @brianportnoy
LinkedIn Brian Portnoy
Transcription
Brian Portnoy:
Most other people don't care. Your family cares, a few friends care, but for the most part, recognize that even if they say something negative or they put you down, they're not thinking about you before or after that conversation. They're just going on in their own life, and so you really don't owe them really any of your emotional energy.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. That was Geometry of Wealth author Brian Portnoy talking about a controversial career change he made, leaving an academic path that he had invested in both time and money, for a job in finance, and the judgment he faced by colleagues. He gets into some very candid comments that may surprise you to hear them actually said out loud. I'm curious to hear your reaction here, so please DM me after you listen and let me know what you think. On Instagram I'm @BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter @BobbiRebell.
Bobbi Rebell:
With that, let's get going. Here is Brian Portnoy. Hey Brian Portnoy, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Brian Portnoy:
Hi, nice to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your most recent book, The Geometry of Wealth.
Brian Portnoy:
Thank you. I appreciate it.
Bobbi Rebell:
And this follows by the way, your other book, Investor's Paradox. So, we're so happy to have you here, and you brought with you some great information, but before we talk more about your book and all that that offers our listeners, as you say, to live a life of funded contentment, and that has a lot to do with a big career decision that you made that was in part financially motivated, but there were other things going on as well. Tell us your story.
Brian Portnoy:
For the first roughly ten years of my career I was in academia. I earned a doctorate at the University of Chicago in political science, and I was having some success in terms of my writing, in terms of job offers from prestigious universities for tenure track positions, and on paper, everything was going really well. But I'll say that when I was honest with myself and with my fiancee at the time, I simply wasn't happy. It was a tough career.
Brian Portnoy:
Frankly from a monetary perspective, it was not lucrative. Being a graduate student, you're basically broke and then you go from being a graduate student to a professor when you're not broke per se, but you're really not making a lot of money. And the academic lifestyle involved moving around a lot, finding it hard to set roots in one place because you're looking for the right job at the right university.
Brian Portnoy:
The harder part was the expectations that others had of me that, hey, you're a smart guy and you've been working on and thinking about this for a long period of time, so to be able to go to those people, family, friends, my professors, my dissertation committee and say, "You know what, I want something different. I need something better for me," was not easy. I ended up just sort of putting a bunch of feelers out there.
Brian Portnoy:
One of them was to an old friend that I grew up with, who was working at a company called Morningstar, that some of your listeners might be familiar with. He was telling me about some of the investment research that they were doing, and even though my PhD was in political science, I was researching markets and economics as well and I found this job pretty intriguing, and I applied and I got it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did you know the kind of salaries that ... first of all, the years of investment, both in lost income and in paying tuition and then making very little money, and did you know what the end game was in terms of earning potential when you made those decisions at 21?
Brian Portnoy:
I really didn't, and I guess it's a little embarrassing to say that I didn't. But I was following my passion at the time, and so I figured, "Hey, I'm friendly with and I see the lifestyle of some of these professors, and it looks great to me." So I didn't ask any hard questions about the monetary element of it. I was on a day-to-day basis, pretty broke, and that didn't help my mood. I just hadn't given much thought to the career element. Not just the money, but the lifestyle, which was sort of moving around a lot, and frankly, the people. I'm not going to be critical of those who go into academia, many of my good friends are now senior professors all over the world. But I really wasn't enjoying sort of the social network that I found myself in.
Bobbi Rebell:
What do you mean by that?
Brian Portnoy:
I mean when I was hanging out with folks in the business world, and broadly speaking, I was having a good time, enjoying socializing. When I was hanging out with those in academia, I just didn't like the people very much. Despite the level of brilliance that you would find with folks, it was relatively narrow-minded. I just wasn't entirely comfortable.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what were the changes? You get the job at Morningstar. What were the changes in your overall life, but specifically financially, in terms of your potential and the path that you were now on? How did that change?
Brian Portnoy:
It changed significantly. Well, first of all, at that point I was married to somebody who had a very good six-figure salary. My starting salary at Morningstar I think was $41,000. This was in the year 2000. I was not pleased with that, but that's what the job offered and I wanted the job. But it was certainly about double or more, actually triple what I had been living on in graduate school. So, from that point of view, it was a step up in lifestyle. Plus I was married to somebody who had a very good job.
Brian Portnoy:
The more important thing is that I got into sort of a normal work routine in mainstream society. The lifestyle I had in academia, you set your own schedule, which sounds great. You work on whatever you want, which sounds great. But it was unstructured and frankly untethered from most everything going on in the world. It's remarkable how ignorant others can be. Something I've really taken to heart is that most other people don't care.
Brian Portnoy:
Your family cares, a few friends care, but for the most part, recognize that even if they say something negative or they put you down, they're not thinking about you before or after that conversation. They're just going on in their own life, and so you really don't owe them really any of your emotional energy.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners from that story?
Brian Portnoy:
If you're in a situation where it just doesn't feel right, even if you're getting good reviews, even if you're making decent money, you owe it to yourself to step back and say, "Do I owe myself more than this?" And then have the courage of your convictions to push forward.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk a little bit about your everyday money tip, because it ties into the philosophy of your book, The Geometry of Wealth in that you have something you're going to suggest to people that at the moment will not make them wealthier, but it will help them lead a richer life.
Brian Portnoy:
I think we all think in different ways about the relationship between money and happiness, and whether money buys happiness. And I'll say somewhat controversially that money in some cases can buy happiness. As part of that, deeper forms of contentment in our lives are in part driven by our deliberate decisions to express gratitude to others, and to be generous. There is now a lot of research in psychology and neuroscience that shows that people who express gratitude, and people who demonstrate generosity tend to be happier.
Brian Portnoy:
I call it being constructively selfish, because when you can tip a little bit more at the restaurant where the waiter or waitress was really helpful, if you can every time you stay at a hotel, don't leave $1 or $2, leave $5 for somebody who probably needs the money more than you do, and even in a non-monetary sense, you have an Uber ride where the driver was really fantastic, make it a point to write them a review. Or if there's somebody at work or in your personal life who's really done you a solid, send them a text or call them and say, "Hey, thanks for doing that," without the expectation of reciprocity.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. All right, let's talk a little bit quickly about your book The Geometry of Wealth. As I mentioned, it's your second book, and it's a lot about the emotional side of investing and how to grow and stay wealthy, and get past the jargon. I mean, you talk about the fact that a lot of people in the investing industry make it more complicated than it needs to be.
Brian Portnoy:
That's right. The industry is filled with jargon and sometimes that is used deliberately to confuse people so that they can buy products or services that might not be appropriate for them. I think the biggest mistake all of us, including me, off and on for decades now, the biggest mistake that we make when it comes to our money is that we equate money with investing, and we immediately dive into the weeds, into the markets and stocks and all that kind of stuff. Which can be interesting, but very distracting.
Brian Portnoy:
The Geometry of Wealth makes the point that what we need to do is start at the beginning. And starting at the beginning is to define what really makes us happy in life. And there's a number of different nuances to that, but we should be looking to underwrite a contented life. We shouldn't be looking to just get rich, meaning just have more money.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people find out more about you and The Geometry of Wealth: How to Shape a Life of Money and Meaning?
Brian Portnoy:
My personal website is shapingwealth.com. There you can learn more about my background. There's a link to both The Geometry of Wealth and The Investor's Paradox. That's the best place to start, and also my Twitter handle is @brianportnoy, and I'm quite active on Twitter writing about day-to-day financial decision-making.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Brian.
Brian Portnoy:
You're welcome.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. I kind of have to take a deep breath after that, but I really admire Brian's fortitude in making a career change even after he had put so much into his academic career. Financial Grownup tip number one, when choosing a career path, find out the general cost to get there. Money and time. And the general payback. What can you expect? Sounds simple but most of us don't do it.
Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't do it, guys. I was a communications major at the University of Pennsylvania. That's not a cheap education. And while I did have what was called a concentration in the business school there, I never really mapped out and thought through what journalism paid. And you know what guys? Business news pays better than general news, in general. But journalism, not the most lucrative career.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, Brian talked about more than money in why he wanted to leave. Industries have cultures, and sometimes those cultures are part of what makes a career attractive or not. So take that into consideration. You spend a lot of time in your career and with colleagues, so it has to be a match.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for listening. We hope you are finding that investing the time is delivering value to you, and if it is, tell a friend, tell your relatives, tell your colleagues. Also, tell us. DM us on the social channels and learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com.
Bobbi Rebell:
Show notes can be found at bobbirebell.com/podcast/brianportnoy. In every show, it's always the same pattern, just switch out brianportnoy for the guest name, and you can find the show notes and links to everything that we talk about. And thanks to Brian for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Modern Loss author Rebecca Soffer not only had to come to terms with losing her parents at a young age, she also had to reconcile complicated feelings about using the money she inherited after their deaths, to fund her dream home for her own growing family.
In Rebecca’s money story you will learn:
-How she lost her mother when she was 30, and her father just a few years later
-Her conflicted feelings about the money she inherited
-How Rebecca approached managing her inheritance
-The decision to use it towards a home for her growing family
In Rebecca’s money lesson you will learn:
-Accept that receiving money from parents, or any relative after death is complicated and emotional
-It can be scary to make huge financial decisions after a loss
In Rebecca’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-How to spend less money on snacks, especially with kids
Bobbi and Rebecca also talk about
-Rebecca’s book, co-written with Gabrielle Birkner, Modern Loss
-The collection from essays from different authors offering unique but universally relatable stories
-Mindy Kaling’s reaction to the book, and how she is supporting Modern Loss
-Stephen Colbert’s role in Rebecca’s life and how his experiences influenced his decision to support the book
-The role of digital memories on social media like Facebook, in our lives
In My Take you will learn:
-Have a plan for your social media.
-Go to settings and set up a legacy contact
-My tips on how to avoid spending money on snacks when you are on the go
Episode Links:
Learn more about Rebecca’s platform at Modernloss.com
Order the book Modern Loss!
Follow Rebecca and Modern Loss
Instagram @modernloss
Twitter @modernloss
Facebook: Modern Loss
How to set up a legacy contact on Facebook:
Go to General Settings, click Manage account, and add a friend’s name
Transcription
Rebecca Soffer:
I really connected this to, would my parents want me to buy this home? Would my parents want this for me? Would they think this is a waste? Is this how they'd want to take care of me? Would they want me to use it for something else? It really got into my head.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grown Up. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grown up friends. No amount of money can replace a loved one, but money does sometimes come after a loss, inheritance. Spending that money can be really complicated. Should it matter what they would want you to do? Is there a period of time that you should wait, and what if it allows you to do things you never could have done had they not passed away? In other words, it is complicated. Welcome, everyone. If you are new, glad you are joining us. You picked a really good episode. We try to keep them short, around 15 minutes, even though we hear many listeners bash them together. It's about flexibility and doing what works for you. When you subscribe, make sure to go into settings, hit auto download, automate your podcasts like you automate your bill paying, so you never miss one.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to our guest, Modern Loss author, Rebecca Soffer. She lost both of her parents at a relatively young age while she was a young adult working at the Stephen Colbert Show. It led her down an unexpected path. Here is Rebecca Soffer. Hey, Rebecca Soffer. You're a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.
Rebecca Soffer:
Thank you so much, and thank you for calling me a grown up. That feels really nice.
Bobbi Rebell:
You are very much a grown up, and we're going to talk about why and how you became a grown up before you really wanted to, which is kind of all of our stories, I think. You're also the author of one of the most talked about books of the summer. It's Modern Loss, candid conversations about grief, [inaudible 00:02:10]. I should say you're a co-author along with Gabrielle Birkner. This is a book that's being talked about by some very influential people including Mindy Kaling. I'm looking right at the front cover. It says, "I am not sure how a book about grief could also be witty and entertaining, but Modern Loss accomplishes just that." Your old boss, because you are like me, a TV veteran or survivor, however we want to put it.
Rebecca Soffer:
Refugee.
Bobbi Rebell:
Sticking with the theme here, trying to have a sense of humor. Stephen Colbert says, "Talking about loss can feel scary. These surprisingly candid and funny stories aren't about death. They're about life." I love that.
Rebecca Soffer:
I love it too.
Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to talk more about the book after your money story, but how did this come about, because you're young? You're still young.
Rebecca Soffer:
Thank you, new best friend. I would think it's safe to say that I did not grow up daydreaming about eventually co-founding a site and publication and writing a book about loss and grief in the modern age. That didn't really enter into my consciousness as a career option. I had other plans, but as it goes the universe had other plans for me. When I was 30 years old I was working in daily TV, as you mentioned, the Colbert Report, and my mother was killed in a car accident.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so sorry.
Rebecca Soffer:
Thank you. It was terrible. It was the worst. I mean, I could talk about that for eons with you, but we don't have that much time. She was my best friend. She was my person. I had just seen her just an hour beforehand. Not only was it awful in a profound, profound loss, but I was 30. That's like the new 21, right? I really felt like a kid in many respects. It was also sudden, so I had no time to prepare for it. Then beyond that, three years later my dad died. He had a heart attack when he was traveling abroad.
Bobbi Rebell:
So sorry.
Rebecca Soffer:
Yeah, thanks. It was again, awful. It was terrible. It was isolating, and wrenching, and insanity-driving. By 34 I had no parents who were above ground. I did inherit some money because my parents did have some legal tender in their accounts, so by extension, some of that went to me. I had to figure out what to do with the portion that I could spend, when to spend it, what to spend it on, how much to spend it. The one really huge thing that I did, I went in with my husband on a down payment on a house in the Berkshires in rural Massachusetts. That sounds all nice and fancy, but the fact of the matter we lived in a one bedroom rent subsidized apartment in Manhattan, and then eventually kept living there with our one kid and our Labradoodle. It was nice and cramped.
Rebecca Soffer:
I never thought that we'd actually buy a place outside of the city in which we lived, but after my dad's death that all changed. I used part of this money that I was left, which I would have given all of my limbs to not have. I would have much rather had my parents with me to purchase this home with my husband, which was our foundation, which we were starting to create together.
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you think if you had had that money through some other means with your parents still alive you would have been able to make such a grown up decision?
Rebecca Soffer:
Absolutely, because for a couple years beforehand my husband had been saying, "Let's look at properties because interest rates are really low. I think this might be a good time to invest in something," keeping in mind that we were being very frugal with our rental in New York City. We had low overhead with regards to rent and living expenses there. I just thought we were playing around. It was fun looking at houses. It sounded like a very grown up thing to do, to purchase a home, especially when you're in New York, and you feel like you're always a kid no matter what. Only adults buy houses. That's like most people in this country go through that, but it still felt very foreign to me.
Rebecca Soffer:
After my dad died, and I put that home on the market, everything changed. I all of a sudden became very aware in a way that I had become aware after my mom died, of the fleeting nature of life, that it can go at any minutes, and that this is your one life. I was living it now. This was no dress rehearsal. This was an opportunity to start something and to create a foundation where we could build memories with our kids, with our friends, which otherwise would not have not been build in, says, their maternal grandparents' home.
Bobbi Rebell:
What's interesting is that the inheritance that allowed you to buy a house, it was the money, of course, but it was also the idea that this is your life, and you do have to grow up. You do have to be financially grown up, and that was in a way part of what happened after they passed away.
Rebecca Soffer:
Yeah. I don't think it really had entered into my mind that I would have purchased something. Also, everything is really expensive in New York. That was not in the realm of possibility in my mind. Very quickly, the need to have a sense of home became very, very, very integral to my life.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners? How can they make this their own?
Rebecca Soffer:
When you lose your parents, and this money is from your parents, wow. It was so complicated. I really connected this to, would my parents want me to buy this home? Would my parents want this for me? Would they think this is a waste? Is this how they'd want to take care of me? Would they want me to use it for something else? It really got into my head. I also was really scared to take any huge financial action shortly after a profound loss. I didn't want it to result from strong emotions because people always say, "Don't make any big moves within the first year of a deep loss." We bought the house three or four months after my dad's death. A lot of people would say, "Wow, that seems rash," but my mom had already died. I was no stranger to this experience, so you could really argue that I was about three years into it already. I needed a foundation.
Rebecca Soffer:
I learned that even though you're making a purchase that is going to be the right thing for you, it doesn't mean that it's not a complicated, emotional experience. It is very, very hard to spend money that is inherited, very, very heard, and especially for younger people because it's not like when I was 30. You just called me a financial grown up, that's amazing. Can you please put that on my tombstone because that's not a term that's really been used in connection with me a lot. I didn't feel like a financial anything, and I really didn't feel like a grown up.
Bobbi Rebell:
You have an every day money tip that is something that many people do, but I think it's important to point out on a practical level because it's something we all think we should do. I personally, have never been great at executing it. I want you to share it with us, and I want you to tell us most importantly, how you actually execute.
Rebecca Soffer:
Yeah. Now I have a one-year-old and a four-year-old, both little boys, and they are hungry, like they are hungry. They are constantly hungry, and I constantly find myself, as soon as we leave the house, even though we have just eaten, my four-year-old will 10 seconds later say, "I'm hungry." I'm like, "How is it humanly possible for you to have more space in your stomach right now?," but he does. I constantly find myself, or had found myself, buying into purchasing the snacks from the museum we're at, or whichever entertainment based facility.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which are very expensive.
Rebecca Soffer:
Which are expensive. They're like a billion times more expensive than they should be, or the bottle of water. I spend some time a couple nights a week, it takes me 10 minutes, it's really not a big deal, putting together snacks, putting them in little Ziploc bags, separating them. I stockpile them. I have them ready every day. I take the new slew of snacks, and I bring them with me. I put them in my older son's little backpack. Wherever we are, whenever the inevitable, I'm hungry pops up, I'm like, "Great. Go into your backpack." What's really great about that is not only are there are a billion different things to choose from, but there's no arguments about, I want this. No, you can't have that. A, because it's like $20, and D because it's made of crap. He knows that anything in that bag is fair game.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk a little bit about Modern Loss. There's one part that really stood out to me that I hadn't really thought that much about, and that has to do with our digital legacy. It's a collection of essays from different authors, and then you and your co-author Gabby introduce them. Was there a conscious decision to include these digital stories, or did that just happen? What is your take on them?
Rebecca Soffer:
Yeah. It was a very conscious decision to have a dedicated chapter to the ways that grief and loss can throw a loss into our digital lives because it's very much a part of everything we do right now. It wasn't as much so 15 years ago, maybe even 10 years ago. My mom died in 2006, and she did not have a Facebook presence.
Bobbi Rebell:
Doesn't that make you sad? I wish my mom had a real Facebook page.
Rebecca Soffer:
Yes, it does make me sad. I always say, "If a person isn't a searchable, did they really exist?"
Bobbi Rebell:
Before I let you go, people are dying to know, how did you get Mindy Kaling involved with the book? Then also, Stephen Colbert, I know that you worked there. Can you tell us about their involvement and connection?
Rebecca Soffer:
With regards to Stephen, yes, he's my former boss. I think he's an amazing human being and very ... I think the general public, anyone who knows a lot about him knows that he suffered profound loss when he was very young. He lost very close relatives very quickly, and he gets it. He's one of those people who gets it. When I was starting to co-author this book, I reached out to him and told him all about it. He offered to write a blurb, immediately offered to support it and knew that there was a need for it. With Mindy Kaling, it was through a mutual friend, actually. She had lost her mom. I had read it in her own book and in a lot of news articles that she had lost her mom around the time, I think, that she got her TV deal for the Mindy Project. She really must understand what it's like to go through loss while you're revving up your career.I thought, who doesn't love Mindy Kaling? Everything she does it so great, and her tone is so approachable. I approached our mutual friend and asked if she would send along my request and a few chapters of the book. She agreed to support it.
Bobbi Rebell:
What's unique about this book is it's a book that you're read once, put down, and then keep coming back to. I think that's a very special thing. Where can people find out more about you, and the book, and everything else that is important to you right now?
Rebecca Soffer:
I run ModernLoss.com. It's an online publication that has hundreds, and hundreds, and hundreds of personal essays that are narrowly focused around different aspects of grief and loss. We're @ModernLoss on Twitter, on Instagram. We have a very active Facebook page. What I really love is we have a closed group, which has become this incredible source of support.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Rebecca. This has been wonderful.
Rebecca Soffer:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Rebecca mentions with her usual humor that she's really sad her mom was never on Facebook, but these days social media does live on and can be a gift. Financial Grown Up tip number one, keep your social media secure, but make sure if something does happen to you, loved ones can have access to whatever you want them to. Talk to relatives, especially older ones about making plans for what they want done with their digital assets. A lot of grandparents, by the way, are on Facebook. It can be as simple as finding the right settings on a certain platform. It may also be something to include in your estate planning and in your will.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up tip number two. Rebecca's money tip really hit home with me as a parent, but it can also apply to all of us in our every day lives. It's not just kids that get the munchies and get stuck buying pricey snacks. Pick a go-to food. In my case, it is often pistachios and those power bars. Keep it somewhere that is always with you for a quick pick-me-up. Totally obvious, but often not done. Maybe this is a reminder, if you already knew that. For me, it keeps me away from M&M's, sometimes. DM me your take on this and what your danger food is, if you don't have those go-to snacks with you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks for sharing this time with us. The podcast is free, but in order to grow we need your support. Reviews are amazing. Also, follow us on the social channels @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. The shows notes for this episode are at BobbiRebell.com/podcast/rebeccasoffer along with more info on the podcast at bobbirebell.com. Thanks to Rebecca Soffer for helping us get one step closer to being financial grown ups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.
