When Liz Thames and her husband adopted their dog Gracie they went on a spending bender buying up countless toys and treats for their new baby. But instead their precious pet taught them a lesson in values that helped shape the parents and family they became. 

In Liz’s money story you will learn:

-The story of how Liz and her husband adopted their first pet, Gracie

-The costs involved in adopting a dog

-How much money they spent before getting the dog, and what they bought

-How Gracie reacted to all the toys and treats

In Liz’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to figure out what you really need to buy for your family

-How marketing can confuse us and create a false need

-The importance of waiting to find out what is truly needed during a life change, such as having a child

-How to fight back against a scarcity mindset

-Specific tips on how to be frugal like Liz, including using social media as a tool

In Liz’s money tip you will learn:

-How she was able to take yoga classes by bartering

-The specific language and approach if you want to barter with a business

In my take you will learn:

-Why you should consider selling your used baby products, especially big ticket items like strollers

-My personal story of selling my son’s stroller

-My take on pet insurance

Episode Links

Get Liz Thames Book Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living. 

Learn more about Liz on her website Frugalwoods.com

Follow Liz!

Twitter @frugalwoods

Facebook Frugalwoods

Instagram Frugalwoods

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Transcription

Bobbi:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message comes from Transfer Wise. The cheaper way to send money internationally. Transfer Wise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come up sending money abroad. Test it out for free at Transfer Wise.com slash podcast or download the app.

Liz:
We probably spent I don't know several hundred dollars on dog stuff which is more than we spent on either of our children by the way before they were born. So it was once she came into our lives we could then learn what she really needed and we could calibrate our purchases to her actual needs which apparently was a kitchen towel.

Bobbi:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, [inaudible 00:01:02] and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi:
Hey everyone. Pet lovers this is especially for you and if you're like me, your pets are like your children. There's nothing you wouldn't do for them. But there are things that you shouldn't do for them including overspending. Liz Thames is the author of Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living. And in fact many of her fans knew her only as Mrs. Frugalwoods until recently. But as you will learn Liz was not always as frugal as she is now. Here is Liz Thames, aka Mrs. Frugalwoods.

Bobbi:
Liz Thames aka Mrs. Frugalwoods, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Liz:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi:
And congratulations are in order for your new book, Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living. Did I get that right?

Liz:
You did.

Bobbi:
Okay. All right. We're going to talk more about the book but I want to hear more about your life in Vermont and your money story which has to do with something near and dear to my heart which is of course our pets.

Liz:
Yes. A number of years ago my husband and I decided we were ready to adopt a dog. We had wanted a dog for years but we'd been renters and we had moved around a lot. I'd been in grad school. Not a good time to get a dog because when you get a dog, you need to think about who's going to care for them all day long. When you're moving around and you're renting an apartment and you're not home because you're in grad school and working full time in order to get free tuition. You don't really have the time to care for a pet. It was a big decision for us to finally come to that moment where we owned a home and we felt like we had the time and the money to dedicate to having a dog. We adopted a gray hound which is a rescue dog. It's a really frugal way to get a pet and it's also a wonderful way of giving a pet a new home.

Liz:
So, gray hounds are-

Bobbi:
By the way, there are some costs when you adopt a pet.

Liz:
Oh absolutely. Yes. There are ... It's like with children. There's just kind of the costs just keep on going but it's yes, so you do pay a fee when you adopt a dog. Then you need to think about their long term health care as well. One of the things that we thought when we first adopted our dog was that she needed everything. We had waited years to get this dog; we were going to lavish her with all of the wonderful dog things. We went to PetSmart and just cruised the aisles and bought you know "Oh we need this. We need this" like impulse shop for this dog and bought all these toys. All of these kongs. You know what those are? You put peanut butter in it.

Bobbi:
What's a kong?

Liz:
It's like this round thing that you put peanut butter or treats in and the dog-

Bobbi:
Are dogs supposed to eat peanut butter? I don't know.

Liz:
Purportedly they stick their snout in it and lick it out. I don't know. I have like four[crosstalk 00:04:04]

Bobbi:
Are they supposed to eat peanut butter? I don't know.

Liz:
I don't know. They told us she could.

Bobbi:
Okay.

Liz:
But our dog had zero use for all of this stuff. She looked at it and was like no thanks and took a red kitchen towel out of our kitchen and said, this is my toy and she decided that she really didn't need a lot in life and that was a great lesson for us. That we kind of had bought into this consumer notion that in order to be good dog parents, we needed to provide all of this stuff for her. When in reality all she needed was a safe, warm space and lots and lots of walks and play time outside. It was just so illuminating for us that uh wow, we really bought into this marketing trope of what it means to have a dog.

Bobbi:
It reminds me of when people buy all these toys for babies. Maybe toddlers let's say and then all the toddler wants to do is play in the box that the toys came in.

Liz:
Oh a 100 percent. Yes. My daughter the other day got in a box and was like, "It's a boat". "I'm sailing down the river". This is an empty cardboard box. Just like excellent. I am really glad you have that imagination and I'm really glad I didn't buy any toys for you.

Bobbi:
Totally. So how much do you think you spent on toys and unnecessary just stuff for your- what's your dog's name?

Liz:
Our dog was Gracie better known as frugal hound and she sadly passed away earlier this year.

Bobbi:
Oh. I'm so sorry.

Liz:
Thank you. But it's wonderful to talk about her and to realize sort of the important role that she had in our lives. She was our first child and she really taught us what we needed to know about parenting which is that you do not need to buy a ton of stuff. It's also true that we bought things preemptively before she was even part of our lives. We probably spent to your question I don't know several hundred dollars on dog stuff which is more than we spent on either of our children by the way before they were born. Once she came into our lives we could then learn what she really needed and we could calibrate our purchases to her actual needs which apparently was a kitchen towel.

Bobbi:
And it's interesting because you actually learned from Gracie how to not over prepare and buy in advance for your children, your human children, when they came along. In a way she taught you a good lesson in budget parenting.

Liz:
Really.

Bobbi:
So what is the lesson then for our listeners and how can this apply not just to pet owners but to everyone?

Liz:
We are surrounded almost every single day by messages that tell us we need more stuff. There is always something more to buy for whatever phase of life you're in. Whether you have pets or you have kids or you don't have either of those things but you have a great interest in hiking or rock climbing or whatever it might be. There will always be this huge list of things that we're told that we need. I think marketing really makes us feel as though we need to have those things in order to be happy and to be fulfilled to be able to do the things we want to do with our lives. What I've realized over the years is that there really is no way to buy happiness. There is no way to sort own everything that you need to own. As soon as you reach that point, you'll realize there's more stuff or you need newer stuff or bigger stuff.

Liz:
This applies to everything from houses and cars all the way down to the clothes that we wear and the food that we buy. I think when you can sort of step outside of that consumer carousel and really identify what it is that you actually need on a daily basis. You'll realize it's quite a bit less than we're told we need.

Bobbi:
You also it seems learned that you can wait. We live in such a culture of abundance here in the United States that had you waited to buy the dog toys and evaluated whether you need them, it's not like they wouldn't have been there. There's no fear that it won't be there if you don't buy in advance. The same thing applies to children and for ourselves. We don't necessarily need to stock up a head of time. We can almost like the stores now do with as needed inventory. We can almost act that way for ourselves.

Liz:
So true and I think we often have this scarcity mindset that we won't have an [inaudible 00:08:22] we won't be able to provide for kids or our pets or our families. When in reality, we probably have plenty and we probably can make do with what we already own. My other favorite thing to do is source things used. Used cars, used furniture, used stuff for my kids. You can save 50, 75 percent sometimes 90 percent off of what something would have originally cost just by getting it used. There are so many sources right now of used things. Craig's List of course everybody knows about. Buy nothing groups. Buy and sell groups on Facebook. Just talking with your neighbors and friends. Finding hand me downs. Of course finding fantastic things on the side of the road which I advise caution but really can be done to great effect.

Liz:
Essentially looking at ways to not buy new. This not only saves you money but is environmentally friendly. It takes away a lot of that paralysis by analysis that I get when I'm looking at Amazon and reading 500 reviews. Like, "I don't know which toddler sippy cup to buy". If you just get it used, you kind of remove all of that stress and time from your search.

Bobbi:
And for your money tip Liz you're going to help us all live healthier for less.

Liz:
Yes. It's often possible to exercise for free by bartering or trading with your exercise studio. When I lived in Cambridge outside of Boston, I volunteered at the front desk of my yoga studio in exchange for free yoga classes. This was something I didn't realize was possible until I tried to save as much as I could every month and realized I was spending tons and tons of money on yoga classes. I think it's easy for us to look at exercise and think, "Oh I'm happy to spend on that because it's a good thing". And it is a good thing but you can often do it for free and I've heard from readers who have accomplished this at Crossfit studios, Pilates, ballet just about any type of exercise that the studio is often looking for this opportunity to make a barter or a trade. I used to take out the trash, sweep the floors, work at the front desk. Free yoga.

Bobbi:
How much do you estimate you saved?

Liz:
Doing that it was thousands of dollars. It's another great example of how costs really compound over the course of a year. You might only be spending 50 dollars, a 100 dollars, 200 dollars a month on exercising but when you think about how much that is over the course of a year and how much that money could do for you if you instead invested it or used it in a wiser way. It really becomes pretty profound. When you start to apply this to every line item in your budget, then you really can start to see astronomical savings.

Bobbi:
How did you approach the yoga studio because a lot of people might say well that's great but that's kind of a weird conversation. To be a client there and just sort of say, "Oh can I take out the trash and go to yoga for free"? How did that actually happen?

Liz:
Fortunately for me they had a poster up that advertised this program and so I was able to just email the email address on the poster but I know that this type of work study program often exists in studios. You can just ask, "Do you have any type of work study program where I could volunteer in exchange for classes"? And if they say no nothing is lost. They've said no. If they say yes, fabulous. You've now got an opportunity to get free classes.

Bobbi:
All great. I love that idea. Tell us more about your book and where people can find you.

Liz:
The book is Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living and it is a memoir about the financial journey that essentially I've been on and that ultimately led me to living on a homestead in Vermont. You can find the book on Amazon, at Barnes and Noble, at any local bookstore anywhere that books are sold.

Bobbi:
And where can people find you? Social media, website all that good stuff?

Liz:
Sure. So it's all Frugalwoods across the board. My website is: Frugalwoods.com and you can find me on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook at Frugalwoods.

Bobbi:
Liz you are wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us.

Liz:
Oh thank you for having me.

Bobbi:
Okay everyone. Liz totally delivered in this episode especially with taking the lessons from buying habits with Gracie and then taking those lessons and applying them when she became a parent to humans. Financial grownup tip number one. Liz talked about buying used stuff for your kid. Don't forget to sell stuff. For example, we were gifted an incredible and very pricey stroller when my son was born. We kept it in good shape and when he outgrew it, we posted it in a Facebook group and we were able to sell it to a local person for more than half the original cost which was still several hundred dollars. It pays off. Financial grownup tip number two. A word about pets. They are expensive. While you can easily avoid luxury pet wardrobes if that's your thing, that's fine but you can avoid it. It's a choice.

Bobbi:
You cannot neglect their health. Make sure you have a very big budget for that. I can take my Morkie in for a checkup and a routine vaccine and walk out with a very large bill. I also want to talk about pet insurance. It is also very expensive and can be limited in its coverage. In many cases it is not something that makes financial sense if you do the math. My family decided to have it for our Morkie for one reason. We never wanted to make a health decision about her after consulting our bank account.

Bobbi:
Pet health care expenses when they do need care beyond the routine, can put owners in a very tough positions. You may be asked to pay let's say a 1000 dollars for a bunch of tests. How do you say no? Then the tests show the pet needs a procedure; another bill. Then therapy and so on. It adds up and our pets are priceless but our money is finite. At a certain point you could be put in the position of saying, "Is so many more months worth this many more dollars"? Well the answer is usually going to be yes because we're human and we love our pets. The reality is that decision could very easily derail other financial needs, obligations and plans.

Bobbi:
If you get a pet, research pet insurance and make an informed decision. It is expensive. Usually it's only affordable if you get it when your pet is young. It's worth being proactive early on.

Bobbi:
All right. If you have not heard yet, I am very excited about this. We are going to start having one guest a month. Be a listener. If you want to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and tell us what money story and what money tip you would share if you were chosen. If you have not already, please subscribe and help us spread the word by sharing on social media. I am at Bobbi Rebell at Twitter, on Instagram I am at Bobbi Rebell1 and go to BobbiRebell.com forward slash financial grownup podcast to learn more about the show and to sign up for mailing list so you can hear about things like how to be a guest on the show.

Bobbi:
I hope that you enjoyed Liz's story and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

“The Big Life” author and former Seventeen Magazine Editor-in-Chief Ann Shoket’s boss literally mocked her when she asked to get paid more as a young magazine editor. Now, she knows better. Ann shares the one thing she does to find out what to ask for in negotiations, and how she leverages it to make more money. 

 

In Ann’s money story you will learn:

-How as a young magazine editor, Ann loved her job, but her compensation was not in line with her contributions. 

-How Ann prepared to approach her manager about a raise

-The shocking reason the manager denied her request

-The uncharacteristic response Ann gave to his pushback

-Exactly what Ann would do if she could do it over

In Ann’s lesson you will learn:

-How the resources of today could have helped Ann get that raise

-The specific advice Ann offers millennials 

-Where and how exactly listeners can get the information they need to better negotiate

-How to find out what you are worth in the job market

In Anne’s money tip you will learn:

-The best way to approach colleagues and friends to share salary and compensation information

-How e-mail vs IRL compare in sharing sensitive information about compensation and other career advice 

-Why it is so important to Ann that she help other women

-The specific language Ann uses in her conversations about money and other compensation with her peers

-How to handle issues of competition with peers and colleagues after sharing information

-What Ann learned from millennials about transparency

In my take you will learn:

-The importance of creating networks and career allies to share pay and other relevant information

-How to decide and communicate boundaries regarding the information

-How to decide if it is best to share information over email or IRL

-The importance of security when sharing sensitive information online

 

Episode Links:

Ann’s Ted Talk: Why We Should All Be More Millennial 

Anne’s book The Big Life: Embrace the Mess, Work Your Side Hustle, Fie a Monumental Relationship and Become the Badass Babe You Were Meant to Be

Anne's website:

AnnShoket.com

Follow Ann!!

Twitter @annshoket

Instagram: @annshoket

Facebook Ann.Shoket

LinkedIn Ann Shoket

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money abroad, built by the brains behind Skype. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. So don't get stung by a bad exchange rate or sneaky fees, join the two million people who are already saving with TransferWise. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.

Ann Shoket:
He looked at me and he said, "You know Ann, you don't go into journalism to get rich." I was so stunned. I wasn't asking to get rich, I just wanted to pay my bills.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone. So this episode is going to be a treat and perfect for anyone that feels they could, and let's face it, should, be earning more money. You may have a boss you need to convince or you may have your own business and need to figure out how to charge your clients more and grow your business. Ann Shoket is a big name. She first became famous as the editor-in-chief of Seventeen Magazine and was named by Forbes to be one of the most powerful U.S. fashion magazine editors. More recently, she penned The Big Life and started a Badass Babes community. And being a badass herself, she also has an amazing TED Talk called Why We Should All Be More Millennial. Which brings us to the advice she is going to share, because it is about using that idea to get paid more money. Here is Ann Shoket.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ann Shoket, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Ann Shoket:
Oh, I'm so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulation on your massive bestseller, The Big Life, and more recently your TED Talk, which I've now watched a number of times. You are literally the Jane Goodall of millennials, so I'm so excited to be talking with you.

Ann Shoket:
Thank you. I have devoted my career to understanding millennials and supporting them and helping them find their power.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which brings us to the money story that you're going to share, which really has to do with trading money for meaning at work. Because of the importance really of meaning, because we spend so much time at work.

Ann Shoket:
So when I was sort of mid-level editor coming up in the world, just past the stage of eating ramen and scrounging and going to happy hours to have dinner, where I had some experience under my belt and a little bit of a salary, I was creating new content for my company and doing great innovations and I wanted to get paid more. And I remember I walked into my boss and I came in with a list of things that I had achieved, I'm no dummy, you know, you come in with these [crosstalk 00:03:09].

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were prepared, right.

Ann Shoket:
It wasn't entitlement, I was prepared for this conversation, and he looked at me and he said, "You know Ann, you don't go into journalism to get rich." And I was so stunned. I wasn't asking to get rich, I just wanted to pay my bills. And frankly, I wanted to get paid for the work I was doing and for the good work that I knew I was bringing them. And I remember feeling instantly small, as if I had asked for too much or my ambition was too obvious, and I backed off of my request. I felt small, I retreated. He made me feel like I should feel lucky to be in that position. And maybe it's true, it's a competitive world that we're in-

Bobbi Rebell:
But you had worked for that position. I mean, yes, many other people would love to be in that position but you had earned it and you were working.

Ann Shoket:
And probably the worst part is I loved my job, I really did and he knew it. I loved my job, I was engaged, I was doing good work, I was doing work I felt was meaningful. I was on my path to finding what felt like my purpose, I was doing something real. And he used that to make me feel small in a salary negotiation and I didn't go for the big dollars and I didn't push hard and I backed off immediately. And could I do it all over again, I might have left that meeting, gone back to my desk, and then come back with a nuts and bolts, "Here's what other people are making in my position." It was at a time where frankly we didn't have Glass Door, we didn't have a million ways to check our salaries, so I didn't know what other people were making.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, was it that other people were making more or that they were just paying you very little? We don't really know I guess, we don't know.

Ann Shoket:
I don't know.

Bobbi Rebell:
We don't know.

Ann Shoket:
I don't know. But had I had the resources available that we have today and had I had the benefit of greater perspective on the world, I would have taken that moment and figured out how to get paid what I thought I deserved at that time. I would have really pushed for it rather than feeling small and retreating.

Bobbi Rebell:
So now we are years later, you are the voice for so many millennials, you are teaching them so much. What is your lesson from this that you would share to them if they find themselves in a similar situation?

Ann Shoket:
Knowledge is power. So if you know what other people at your level, in your company, who sit next to you in the competitive company, are making then you have a much greater leverage to get paid what you deserve. Women say to me all the time, "I just want to get paid what I'm worth," and I am like, "That's great, except for how do you know what you're worth?" And the only way to know is to share your salary information.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Ann Shoket:
If you walk away from this interview right now with only one thing, it's share your salary information with a trusted colleague, someone who sits next to you, your regular lunch buddy, but share your salary information. It's not gratuitous, it's not for gossip purposes, but it's so that you know and are better prepared when you go into your own salary negotiation.

Bobbi Rebell:
So sticking to this theme for your money tip, you've talked about sharing your salary information but are there specific ways and specific resources that you can tell people about that can accomplish this goal? Because it's a little bit awkward to just go up to people and say, "Oh hey, tell me what you're making and I'll tell you what I make and it will be all good." I mean, how do you actually ... Are there certain things that you look for with someone that you feel you can trust them? Are there websites you can go to, are there chat groups? Specifically how does this happen? Because it's awkward, right?

Ann Shoket:
It is awkward and I'll tell you, the first time that someone asked me to ballpark my salary for them it came in an email-

Bobbi Rebell:
And was it a close friend, was it someone you knew well?

Ann Shoket:
It was a colleague.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Ann Shoket:
Not a close friend. It was a colleague and we had been supportive of each other over the years. And at first I was so shocked, I was like, "Can you believe the nerve of this woman! I would never share my salary information with her!" And I calmed down and tried to get a little perspective and I gave her some sort of halfway information that she may be able to use, I didn't go all the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
In writing, in writing.

Ann Shoket:
I did, I emailed her back in writing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Ann Shoket:
However, if I did it again I would 100% ballpark and tell her the number. I was so stunned by it but I realize she was so ahead of the curve in even asking. And I have since been in a position to help other women where I've talked about what I got paid and about the ins and outs of my book deal to help other women in getting their book deal. I have had women who have helped me as I've been building a speaking practice, women who've been tremendously supportive, because it's all brand new.

Ann Shoket:
You know, one of the things about having careers that are more complicated and more evolved than we ever planned for is that suddenly you're being thrust into totally new arenas and you have to figure out how to take the skills that you have but make them work in new places and in new ways. How do you do that unless somebody gives you the lay of the land? And so that's another piece of this sisterhood, this idea that we should all support each other so that we can rise together as women and be collaborative and powerful.

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, just to be specific about this, how do you know when it's okay to trust somebody or do you try to ... You were comfortable doing it in an email, you don't feel you have to pick up the phone or meet someone in person.

Ann Shoket:
I think when you're talking real numbers, I think it's okay to send an email that says, "Hey, can I talk to you about this? I'm interested in finding out what you charge or how you got paid or how the deal went down," in an email, to be clear about what it is that you're asking them. But then to have the real nuts and bolts money conversation in person, I think is probably smart. That's how the last couple of conversations that I've had have gone. But I think it has to be someone you trust, who's not going to feel competitive, someone who's going to give you good, smart information. And I think that you find those people in your network, maybe they're not someone who sits next to you at work, maybe it's not your work wife, although you probably should share some of this information with your work wife. But it is people who are going to be in your life for a while, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Ann Shoket:
You're going to see them at industry events, you're going to be up for the same jobs, you're going to see them schmoozing here and there, you're going to see them at parities-

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you do if you find out that there's a big disparity?

Ann Shoket:
I think the only thing to do ... I mean, yes, maybe it's awkward with the two of you but I think it's better to say now you know and now you can go to your boss and let them know that you know and to be clear. One of the most interesting things about this transparency that millennials have brought into the world is that Gen Xers are so supremely uncomfortable with it, we think it's TMI and that it's oversharing and that the system, sort of old systems, are set up to keep you in line and to keep you not knowing. And those don't really serve us moving forward, the transparency that millennials are demanding is going to become second nature for all of us. And so I think it's a smart company that honors this kind of transparency rather than shuts it down.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. All right, Ann Shoket, I know that you are so busy on the speaker circuit and with all of your projects. Tell us more about what you're up to these days and where people can find you.

Ann Shoket:
So since the TED Talk, Why We Should All Be More Millennial, I have actually been doing a ton of speaking. It is, in so many ways, a love letter to millennials, to a generation that I believe is going to lead our future and is changing the way we define power and success. But it's also incredibly important for boomers and Xers, and there's this real tension at work between boomers and Xers and the millennial employees that are coming up behind them. And it is my goal to make everybody come together so that we can rise together as women.

Bobbi Rebell:
So where can people find you?

Ann Shoket:
Annshoket.com is the best, fastest way to find The Big Life, to find my speaking, to find my TED Talk.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is awesome, by the way. And on social media?

Ann Shoket:
Annshoket.com on Instagram, ann.shoket on Facebook, annshoket on Twitter. You can find me everywhere, I'm very easy to find. A-N-N, S-H-O-K-E-T.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much, this has been amazing.

Ann Shoket:
Thank you Bobbi, I love it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love how direct Ann was, I feel there were a lot of takeaways but this is what I'm going to focus on. Financial grownup tip number one, create networks and career allies to share pay and career information. But this is what I'm adding, treat it kind of like any successful relationship, in that you need to respect the boundaries and you also need to respect that even though you're being transparent with each other that doesn't mean that the information goes beyond that relationship, you need to respect the other person and their privacy. Be sure to vet someone also before you reveal too much, and keep the information that is said between the two of you, or the group, private unless it is clearly agreed that it is for public disclosure. Ann and I have shared career information and goals, but that remains private.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. When you have these conversations, Ann points out that while you can initiate via email, you should have the real conversation in real life, in person, face to face. Meeting in person is worth the time, at the very least, do it by phone. On your end, you don't want to create a paper trail with information that you don't want to go beyond the intended recipient. No matter how well-intentioned they are, things happen, be secure with your information.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. The minute this podcast is over, I want everyone to go listen to Ann Shoket's TED Talk, Why We Should All Be More Millennial. I will leave a link in the show notes. Then check out her book, The Big Life, and follow her on social media. I want to hear your money story and get some great money tips from you, our listeners. We are going to be starting having one episode a month be a listener as our guest. If you want to be considered, email us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us what money story, lesson, and money tip you would share.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. If you like what you are hearing please don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you won't miss any upcoming episodes. And of course, rate and review the show, especially on iTunes. Anywhere is good, but especially iTunes so more people can learn about the show. And on that note, please share this with a friend so we can share these stories with more people and help them live richer lives. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. I adore Ann and I hope you do now too. It was a great episode and here's to us all getting one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Kristin Wong laughs about it now but she literally cried and wanted to drown her sorrows at TGI Fridays when an unexpected tax bill hit her out of the blue. She fesses up to Bobbi that it never occurred to her that she would not get a refund. Ironically, her money tip is one for the budget conscious foodie in all of us. 

In Kristin Wong’s money story you will learn:

-Why she did not pay her taxes when she started freelance writing

-How your tax responsibilities change when you switch from being an employee to being self-employed

-Why she owed money instead of getting her usual refund

-The benefits of having an emergency fund

-The emotional toll it took on Kristin

 

In Kristin’s money lesson you will learn:

-The big mistake Kristin made regarding money when she became a freelancer

-Ignorance is not bliss when it comes to taxes

-Kristin’s tips for managing major work changes

-How to find free resources online to manage and pay your taxes

-How to know when you need a professional for your taxes

 

In Kristin’s money tip you will learn:

-The high/low method for restaurant spending

-The most expensive/biggest splurge meal Kristin has had

In my take you will learn:

-What happens if you send in your tax returns without payment

-What to do if you do not have the money to pay your taxes on April 17th

-Strategies to use when you set up a payment plan with the IRS

-Why you should avoid paying your taxes with a credit card

 

Episode links

Pickup your copy of Kristin Wong’s new book Get Money

The book website is at: https://thegetmoneybook.com/

Get Kristin’s downloadable worksheets at https://thegetmoneybook.com/worksheets/

Kristin Wong’s website is https://www.thewildwong.com/

Follow Kristin!

Facebook- (and join her private facebook group): https://www.facebook.com/thewildwong/

Twitter @thewildwong

Instagram: @thewildwong

Pinterest thewildwong

YouTube The Wild Wong

Other links:

IRS.Gov

TurboTax.com

Vanguard.com

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/what-if-i-cant-pay-my-taxes

https://www.irs.gov/payments/direct-pay

Cary Carbonaro

Stefanie O’Connell

Holly Hanson

Get Rich Slowly

JD Roth

---

Transcription

Kristin Wong:
So, I just cried. My now husband, who was my boyfriend at the time and he was like trying to calm me down. He was like, it's going to be okay. I just remember like I wanted to go to TGIF Fridays.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of "How to be a Financial Grownup", and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you and make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, spoiler alert, our guest Kristin Wong author of "Get Money" was crying because of something that happened to her at tax time. And I thought this would be a great time to hear her story about the time she, oops, forgot to pay her taxes. So her book, as I mentioned is called, "Get Money. Live the Life You Want, Not Just the Life You Can Afford." It makes learning about money feel like a game, which she really could have used her own book at this time because it was not a fun time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've probably read Kristin's work in the New York Times, New York Magazine, Glamour, Life Hacker. Kristin got her start as a money writer at the fantastic blog, "Get Rich Slowly." This is a story you need to hear, especially right now at tax time. Here is Kristin Wong.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kristin Wong. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the show.

Kristin Wong:
Thank you for having me on the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am loving your new book, "Get Money. Live the Life You Want, Not Just the Life You Can Afford." Full disclosure, I'm only about two thirds of the way through, but I will be finishing it very soon. Great job.

Kristin Wong:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's not easy to say something new in this space and you really did it.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah. And I've been writing about money for so long that it was kind of hard to say something new. So I really had to think about it for ... I had to take myself out of the money geek persona.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're not a geek. You're the cool money nerd.

Kristin Wong:
All right. I'll take it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're the cool friend, talking about money and we have cool stuff to talk about. Your money tip is super cool, but before we do your money tip and that's a teaser for all the foodies out there, we're going to do your money story, which is so appropriate, because this is going to come out in April, which is our favorite month. Not. Because we talk about taxes and your money story is about the fun world of taxes. Tell us, Kristin.

Kristin Wong:
Oh man, I have a crazy tax story. When I first started freelancing six or seven years ago, I was full time freelancing and everything was going fine. I wasn't making that much money because I was new at it. I had no idea that you had to pay estimated quarterly taxes. It's just not something that I paid attention to. I was so used to having an employer take out taxes for me. So in April I decided to do my taxes, which usually I liked doing taxes because-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you were probably getting refunds. You were getting refunds when you worked for an employer.

Kristin Wong:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this was the time you would be getting like a bonus.

Kristin Wong:
Right. So I was looking forward to all this money coming in, thinking what I was going to do with it. But nope. I had a $5000 tax bill. And some of it was penalties but it was mostly, I hadn't paid any of my taxes. And the fact that my taxes were only $5000 should tell you that I wasn't making that much. I had an emergency fund, thankfully and it just depleted my emergency fund.

Kristin Wong:
I remember, I had just moved to Los Angeles and I was proud of myself for finding a job here and I was a writer and I was making it at work, and I had an apartment, and I just remember-

Bobbi Rebell:
You were very grown up except for one thing.

Kristin Wong:
Except for the taxes. Well I just cried. I remember it was a Friday night-

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you just literally cry? You actually cried?

Kristin Wong:
I cried. I did because it was just-

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there witnesses?

Kristin Wong:
My now husband, was my boyfriend at the time and he was like trying to calm me down. He was like, it's going to be okay. I just remember like I wanted to go to TGIF Friday that night.

Bobbi Rebell:
And spend more money.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah. I was like, I want to do it. Let's go to TGIF Friday.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now did you have everyone helping you? Did you just go to a tax preparer? What happened?

Kristin Wong:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
How was this all discovered?

Kristin Wong:
I just wasn't prepared at all for it. I thought, you know I've always been when of those type of people, I'll just say yeas and figure it out later. And that can definitely work in my favor, but this time it did not. I was unprepared for the freelance life and the massive change. Like how different it is financially.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, so let's talk about the lessons. What are the lessons, besides know whether you're paying taxes or not.

Kristin Wong:
Right. I'd say the lesson is just don't ignore money. Like I just ignored what it took to be a freelancer financially and I ignored all of that. And I think a lot of people do that. We don't like to think about money. We don't want to figure out the practical side of things. So we just kind of sweep it under the rug. I think a lot of people even take it further. They don't look at their budget or they don't look at their credit card statements, and that really was a game-changer for me because this was pre-writing about money days.

Kristin Wong:
But I really realized, nobody is going to care abut your finances. Nobody's going to hold your hand and walk you through it. And if you don't take care of it the somebody else will. Well if you don't care of your money somebody else -

Bobbi Rebell:
Somebody else will take it, somehow.

Kristin Wong:
They'll take it.

Bobbi Rebell:
It there like a checklist of things? So number one would be, be aware of taxes that you may owe. And if you're just starting out the truth is, you may earn so little money that you, especially with the new tax system, under a certain amount you may not even owe taxes. But you just need to figure out if you do.

Kristin Wong:
Right. And I would say, if you're going through a major work change like that, where your status is changing from full time to freelance, if you can afford it, go to a tax preparer and have them kind of walk you through the process. But at the very least, always research what your financial situation is going to look like if you have a major life change, especially when it comes to taxes. There are a lot of free resources on line, but I would say if you can afford it you certainly want to go to a professional.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there some resources you can recommend?

Kristin Wong:
Yeah. The IRS.gov website is actually pretty great. They have a lot of resources for freelancers and independent contractors and that sort of thing. And Turbo Tax, their website actually has a lot of useful information. So I would check out those two resources.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's go to the money tip because I teased it a little bit earlier. I love this Kristin. This is one for the foodies.

Kristin Wong:
Yes, so it is ... My money tip is the high, low method for restaurant spending. And I actually read this tip from a restaurant critic on line. And he or she, I don't remember, this was a long time ago, basically said don't go to any middle of the road restaurants. Save your budget. Spend it mostly on hole-in-wall, cheaper restaurants because they are usually mom and pop owned and the food is really good and they stay in business because the food is really good.

Kristin Wong:
You're going to save money going to those cheaper restaurants and then use that to splurge every now and then on a really high-end, nice restaurant that's known for their cuisine. So his or her tip was, basically just avoid any middle of the road restaurants. And so if you are going to go out six times a month on restaurants, go to the cheaper places five times and then save your sixth splurge restaurant meal for a nicer high end restaurant.

Kristin Wong:
The idea is, those middle of the road restaurants ... I mean there are some exceptions to this. This is a generalization, but they're usually like, the food is very mediocre, and your not getting the most bank for your buck.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Kristin Wong:
But you will get the most value from the high, low method.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And you're usually just avoiding cooking at home because you just don't feel like it.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, let me ask you ... So you talk about splurge. What is the most you've ever spent on one meal out, Kristen?

Kristin Wong:
Oh my gosh. I've told this story before but I ... I still I feel guilty about this but I spenT $40 on a steak once. And I don't know what I was thinking. I think that I had been ... My lifestyle-

Bobbi Rebell:
So the entrée was $40? The entrée. But that's not that bad.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah, but-

Bobbi Rebell:
Obviously there were other things to the whole meal.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you think the whole meal cost you, then?

Kristin Wong:
I was with a friend so we split it. But it was probably like $50, $60 for one person. And I had never spent that kind of money before. That's the thing. I grew up in a lower income household so $40 on steak. If my parent found out about that, they would slap me silly.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You haven't spent that much time in New York City, but maybe that's a good thing. New York City is not very budget-friendly. All right. We are never going out for steaks together. We are going to have some plain, simple coffee.

Kristin Wong:
I like the steaks, though.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Maybe we'll make steaks at home. That sounds like a good plan. All right. Thank you so much. I want to talk about your book quickly before I let you go. "Get Money." This is a good book. It is a paperback. I now carry it with me because it's like little nuggets of money tips and little things like what you just said about the restaurants. So many brilliant musings on money. Tell us a little bit more about it.

Kristin Wong:
Yeah. Well, it's a very actionable and interactive book so there area lot of exercises and there are a lot of assignments in it. You have to do work when you're reading it, so I would read it with a pen or pencil in hand. You can also go on line. There is an accompanying website to the book, called Thegetmoneybbok.com or you can find worksheets in like video tutorials for it, because I think sometimes with these money concepts, somebody tells you how to open a retirement account.

Kristin Wong:
And you're like, okay that sounds well and good when I'm reading it but when I go to the Vanguard website I have no idea how to get started. So I actually show you in some video tutorials exactly what you need to do to get started, so you have no excuse not to get your money in order.

Bobbi Rebell:
And there's a lot of value out of this book, because you quote so many of my favorite people, Cary Carbonaro. You quote Stephanie O'Connell, Holly Hansen, so many brilliant money minds are in here. It's great, so congratulations on the book. Where can people find you and what else are you up to?

Kristin Wong:
I am at the WildWong.com, is my website and all my social media handles. And I just sort of write about, of course personal fiance, but also resources for freelancers and that sort of thing too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. And your background, by the way is so cool. You were a movie writer, a TV writer. So interesting.

Kristin Wong:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just quickly, how did you fall into the money stuff?

Kristin Wong:
Well I was actually writing full time freelance for about dating and relationships when I started writing about money. I actually started writing at "Get Rich Slowly', J.D. Roth's blog. I have always been fascinated with money. That's a longer story. But I would read his blog every morning and then one day he said that he was hiring writers, so I just applied to be a freelance writer and I started kind of blogging about ...

Kristin Wong:
Like I would write essays about my own dysfunctional relationship with money and I really just, I figured out how to get money through just writing about it for five years. So I wanted to share that knowledge with other people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we appreciate it. Kristin Wong, thank you so much.

Kristin Wong:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Much as we hate to deal with it, taxes are a reality of being a financial grownup. Here's the thing. Kristin was able to contain the damage of not filing quarterly taxes as a freelancer because she had the cash in an emergency fund. So great. There were some consequences, but all things considered, Kristin made the problem go away. In reality that is not always the case. In fact, I'm going to bet, very often it's not the case, so what do you do if you don't have the cash?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, first of all, financial grownup tip number one. No matter what, you still have to file the paperwork on time. Now you can file an extension if you just want to procrastinate and not even figure out what you owe. But you got to figure out some kind of idea, because they're going to start penalizing you and you're going to be paying interest on what you owe. So when you do pay it, it's going to be so much more.

Bobbi Rebell:
The money is due April 17th. Now, as Kristin said, the IRS.gov website can very easily walk you through all of this. They even have an IRS direct pay area of the website, where you can easily pay tax estimates. I'm going to leave a link to that in the show notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Okay, let's say you literally do not have the cash. You need to get in touch with the IRS and you need to get on a payment plan. They can even give you extensions if you literally don't have the ability to pay anything right now. I'm going to give you a phone number to the IRS. 1-800-829-1040. 1-800-829-1040. Call them up, They will work out a plan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Be nice. The whole point is you're talking to a human being. You can be reasonable. They want to get their money and they want to get it consistently in a way that you're going to be able pay. So they're going to be flexible. In fact, they can often waive the penalties. Not only the interest on the money you owe, but the penalties. So ask.

Bobbi Rebell:
I do not recommend putting it on a credit card. In almost every case, unless you hae a 0 interest credit card, in almost every case the IRS, even with penalties will be less than the interest on a credit card. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe and consider writing a review on Apple Piecasts, aka iTunes.

Bobbi Rebell:
It helps the show get discovered so we can share more money stories and tips and be in touch. On Twitter, I'm @BobbiRebell. On Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. And to learn more about the program and to get on our mailing list for bonus content and more go to BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGownuppodcast. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode with writer and money expert Kristin Wong. Get her book, "Get Money" and here's to us all getting always bit closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

 

Lauren Smith Brody, author of The Fifth Trimester turned down a high prestige offer when she realized saying yes would make her feel like a fraud. Then, a surprise turn of events proved the decision was the right one. 

 

In Lauren’s story you will learn:

• Why she turned down a speaking engagement invitation she really wanted

• How her entrepreneur philosophy has changed since her book was released

• How turning down that so-called opportunity led to better ones

In Lauren’s lesson you will learn:

• How she balances her desire to volunteer with the importance of being paid for your work

• Her specific strategy to put a price on your time- even when you are volunteering

• Specific ways parents can evaluate how much time to allocate to different commitments

In Lauren’s money tip you will learn:

• The specific way she decides what to outsource, and what to do for herself

• Tips for entrepreneurs on setting up their business

• How taking the time to learn new skills like setting up a website and putting together presentations, improved her value as an entrepreneur. 

• What she chose to outsource and the mistakes she made along the way. 

In my take you will learn:

• Why you need to decide if you are a business, or a hobby. 

• How to evaluate the true vale of an opportunity, beyond the direct financial benefit

• Why I am adamant that entrepreneurs must trademark their brands

 

Episode links:

Squarespace

Harvey Karp’s book: The happiest baby on the block

Learn more about Lauren at http://www.thefifthtrimester.com/

Follow Lauren on instagram @thefifthtrimester

Follow Lauren on Twitter @Laurensbrody

Follow Lauren on Facebook @thefifthtrimester

Buy Lauren’s book The Fifth Trimester

In this Financial Grownup podcast episode, Lauren Smith Brody, author of The Fifth Trimester turned down a high prestige offer when she realized saying yes would make her feel like a fraud. Then, a surprise turn of events proved the decision was the right one. You'll also learn the things she decided to outsource and tips for entrepreneurs on setting up their business. #EntrepreneurInspiration #BusinessTips #Author

In this Financial Grownup podcast episode, Lauren Smith Brody, author of The Fifth Trimester turned down a high prestige offer when she realized saying yes would make her feel like a fraud. Then, a surprise turn of events proved the decision was the right one. You'll also learn the things she decided to outsource and tips for entrepreneurs on setting up their business. #EntrepreneurInspiration #BusinessTips #Author

---

Transcription

Lauren S. B.:
I didn't want to get up in front of a room full of women and know that I was sitting up there as a fraud, as someone who wasn't getting paid for this.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard. Especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. This episode is about saying no when you are not valued. And by being valued, I mean, being paid. My guest is Lauren Smith Brody. She is the Author of the bestseller, The Fifth Trimester: The Working Mom's Guide to Style, Sanity, and Big Success After Baby, which just came out in paperback.

Bobbi Rebell:
Lauren is also the founder of The Fifth Trimester Consulting business, which helps parents and businesses create a more family-friendly workplace culture. Lauren is also the former Executive Editor of Glamour magazine, and you've seen her all over the media, including Good Morning America and CNN. Here is Lauren Smith Brody. Lauren Smith Brody, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the program.

Lauren S. B.:
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll talk more about this later, but your book, The Fifth Trimester, is out in paperback this week, so congratulations on that.

Lauren S. B.:
Thank you. It's been a fun year.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've been building The Fifth Trimester into a whole consulting business, which brings us to the story that you are going to share because it has to do with basically running your business, and how that's evolved.

Lauren S. B.:
I have learned so many financials this past year since the hardback launch last spring, I can't even tell you. The story that I wanted to share is about the first big thing I turned down. So this whole year has been about building, as an entrepreneur, my own business, and really having to put a price tag on my time, and on what exposure is actually worth to me, and what things I'm kind of willing to do for free for the good of the community, and the good of my business, and what things are really, I must be paid for. So anyway, I had a big bank. Like think of the biggest name bank you can possibly think of-

Bobbi Rebell:
I have a definite name in my head, but okay. Go on.

Lauren S. B.:
I'm not going to say it. The two came to me this week and it was through someone else. It wasn't actually totally direct, but the conversation got a little muddled along the way, and it turned out that they didn't want to pay me to do a presentation. They wanted me to do a presentation. Didn't want me to pay them, and I'm thinking-

Bobbi Rebell:
Literally free? Not a low pay, just free?

Lauren S. B.:
No, literally, free. And so then it was like, well, maybe they would buy a big quantity of books to give to all of their employees, which at least, sort of makes my soul feel a little better about the situation. And all I want to do is take a big screenshot of their logo, turn it gray, put it on my website, and say, "I spoke here. It's huge. It's worth so much to me." Except then, I found out that actually the event was a client event. They were trying to woo new business and I was basically going to be the hired entertainment, and they weren't going to pay me for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
No, they probably would pay the caterer, right?

Lauren S. B.:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm sure the food would have been really nice. I wouldn't have eaten because I would have been speaking. Anyway, I don't mean to sound bitter. I'm actually not bitter. It made me feel so good to say no to this because it's the bravest I've been about saying no to something. It could have been valuable for me to have that exposure.

Lauren S. B.:
But actually, I didn't want to get up in front of a room full of women. It was going to be women, and talk about things like the pay gap, pay parity, the motherhood penalty, and know that I was sitting up there as a fraud, as someone who wasn't getting paid for this. So it felt good to make that decision and then the big PS is that the very next day, I got two more offers from other big corporations that want me to come and speak. I turned them right over to my speaking agent, she's negotiating it, and I think it's going to go well.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they will pay you.

Lauren S. B.:
And they will pay me because I feel confident enough that if I can say no to X thing, then I can probably say yes to a lot of other really good things.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson? I mean, I feel like there's a lot of pressure, especially on moms, to volunteer.

Lauren S. B.:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because so many moms are so qualified, they're organized, they have their act together, and yet, they may not be working to maximize their income in certain years, so there's an expectation. "Well, you have the time. You should volunteer."

Lauren S. B.:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, and that's really what that was. Is you would have been a volunteer for this for-profit event.

Lauren S. B.:
Right, and you know what I love even more than my business, is I love my children, and I love their school, and I love all of the things that I can do for that community, to foster that community for them. And so what I really learned ... I worked in corporate America for many, many, many years in publishing. I worked at Condé Nast. And then so this is my first venture working for myself. This is the first time when I've had the freedom to do a lot of this volunteer work, and I do squeeze it in, in the middle of the day and then I'll end up doing a lot of my work-work in the evenings.

Lauren S. B.:
And so after saying yes to the umpteenth thing that I really did enjoy, I found that I had to kind of in my head, put a price tag on my time, which sounds a little crass. But it's only in my head. I'm not sharing it with anybody else. But it's I need to put a price tag on what is an hour of my volunteer time worth? It is, what sort of satisfaction does it give me? Is it worth X dollars of my day to miss this much work to be able to enjoy this much pleasure? Is it something that I'm doing with my kids? Is it something that will directly benefit them? Or, is it more of a sort of like status thing in the school, which is worth less to me, frankly, because it just doesn't feel genuine.

Bobbi Rebell:
But sometimes we feel obligated.

Lauren S. B.:
Yes, we do feel obligated. And it's okay, like when you're part of a community, you do have an obligation sometimes to be a part of it, but it's helped me. If I put a dollar amount on an hour of my time, both for work and for volunteering, and that has made me make a lot of decisions a lot more clearly and easily about whether I say yes or no to things.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want you to share a personal money tip, and I know the one that you've brought has to do with being an entrepreneur, and things that you have learned in terms of what you want to do yourself and what you outsource, and how to do that. How to decide.

Lauren S. B.:
Yes, there are so many mothers who are very, very, very good at outsourcing absolutely everything that is not something they're naturally good at. That's not me. I'm one of these people who would rather just do it all myself. Well, there's diminishing returns very often on that, and it comes back to what is an hour of my time worth? So when I was putting together my website, thank God there's Squarespace, and there's actually things that make it sort of intuitive and easier, but I have never done that before. I'm not even joking.

Lauren S. B.:
This is embarrassing to admit in a podcast. I had never made my own PowerPoint. I always had a staff of designers and assistants. I would tell them what to write and do and they would animate me this gorgeous PowerPoint. Well, those are two things I actually decided to do myself because I knew that in doing them, I would gain the confidence I needed to do a lot of other things. I had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder about having worked in print magazines and not so much in digital.

Lauren S. B.:
Now I feel I've built a website, I've built an online community, I have built a social network. I feel very digitally savvy, and I've grown that all myself, and that started with actually spending three days struggling through Squarespace, trying to figure out how to size pictures, and how to line things up, and how to communicate to an audience, really more than anything. So that was really valuable to me.

Lauren S. B.:
On the other hand, what I did spend my money on was trademarking my company name, The Fifth Trimester, which ended up, has been ... I am so grateful there have been probably a dozen moments over the last dozen months when I have been so glad that I own that trademark. It is now something I can license. It is actually worth something to me.

Lauren S. B.:
I actually expanded the trademark to several other categories a few months ago, so that if I want to claim it in many other ways, I can. And that is definitely something I couldn't have done myself. I actually initially signed on for one of those online legal websites, and I realized I didn't know what I was doing, and I ended up hiring a real lawyer to really do it for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, I actually did the same thing with Financial Grownup, and it gives me a lot of security because I knew when I went to do the podcast, I had the audio rights to it, and I wouldn't have a problem. I think that legal money when you're not a lawyer, is definitely money well spent. You want to be protected because you're building this business, so for entrepreneurs, spend money on the right things. So speaking of The Fifth Trimester, so as I mentioned at the beginning, it's paperback week. Congratulations.

Lauren S. B.:
Yeah, thank you. Thanks.

Bobbi Rebell:
This has been quite a journey. First of all, it's been a bestseller. I love seeing it on the shelf in Barnes & Noble in my neighborhood, which is really nice. It's usually in a beautiful display because people love this book.

Lauren S. B.:
Oh, thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's really resonated with so many people. I wish it was there when I had my son, 10 years ago, because I would have felt so much better having a guide going back to work.

Lauren S. B.:
It is the book I needed. It's the resource I needed. When I was pregnant, during my first three trimesters, of course, I had Baby Center to tell me when my fetus was the size of a kumquat, and when he was the size of a cucumber, and then he was ready to be born. Then I learned about something called The Fourth Trimester, which was the newborn phase because the idea is that human babies are actually born a whole trimester too early. So to soothe a newborn, you recreate the feeling of the womb-

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, we swaddle.

Lauren S. B.:
Yeah, so we swaddle. Exactly. Swaddle, we shush, we swing, all of those S verbs. It's the Harvey Karp idea. Then when I got back to work, all that support sort of fell off. I have to tell you, I was working in a fairly supportive industry, surrounded by women who were very comfortable talking about things like breastfeeding. I had a supportive spouse. We had enough money in the bank that I could take a few weeks of my leave unpaid. I did have to back after 12 weeks, which to me, was not quite enough. But it's what I needed to maintain my job.

Lauren S. B.:
And yet still, I just felt like there was nothing out there to support me. I ended up, years later, I had the idea that this was transition, that I had gotten through essentially another trimester. This one was for the Working Mom, and I had colleagues who said to me, younger colleagues who weren't in this phase of life yet who said, "Thank you for being so honest and transparent about what's hard here, because ..." And I thought, "Oh, gosh. Have I been unprofessional?" And they were like, they went on to say, "Because you've shown me I can do it one day, too. You've shown me that it's hard, and that I will still get through it, and it will be okay."

Lauren S. B.:
That was really a eureka moment for me, when I realized that my next goal in the next phase of my career was going to be support new parents in this transition back to work.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's more than a book now.

Lauren S. B.:
It is, yes. It's a movement. For the book, I interviewed hundreds and hundreds of new working moms to figure out what worked for them, and they've become this sort of working, collective working mom mentor for anybody going through it. But what I found is that in speaking, I go into companies and I help them make, not just better policies, but actually better culture so that even if they have good policies, a lot of these, especially the big tech companies, the big law firms.

Lauren S. B.:
People feel like they can't use what's available to them. This actually lets them change the culture, lets them use what's theirs, sort of equalizes things between moms and dads, and people who don't have children, and may never have children. To make things fair for really anyone with a personal life in the workplace.

Lauren S. B.:
So I've been in, I'm going into Google next week. I'm going to AmEx. I've been to Facebook. I've done a ton of big law firms. It has been so fulfilling and the room is full of not just new moms, or expectant moms, but also the managers who really want to support them. And that is, we are in a groundswell movement for women's rights in the workplace and it has been a good moment to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we are lucky to have you leading the charge there. Tell us where people can find you.

Lauren S. B.:
Oh, absolutely. So I'm all over Instagram. Too much, it's-

Bobbi Rebell:
I love your Instagram.

Lauren S. B.:
Oh, thank you. I'm having so much fun with stories in the new font. And again, like that's because I made my own website, that I feel confident that. And then on Facebook, it is The Fifth Trimester. On Twitter, I'm @LaurenSBrody. Lauren Smith Brody. Lauren S. Brody.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on what Lauren had to say. First of all, Financial Grownup tip number one. Are you a business or an expensive hobby? You cannot be afraid to say no to something if it does not benefit your business if you are running a business. In some cases, you may say, "You know what? I do want that logo on my website. I don't like the deal, but the logo on my website does present enough value to me that this time, I am going to say yes." That's okay, but realize you have set a low and, frankly, unsustainable price point.

Bobbi Rebell:
You will never make a profit if you don't get paid. There will come a time when you have to say no to free. Or, like I said, "You just have an expensive hobby." If a for-profit company is running a marketing event to bring in clients to benefit their business, and they don't have a budget for speakers, it is because they made a choice when they created that budget. It's just not something that they value. So think, "Are these people that you want to be in business with? And, will you feel good about being there?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Lauren also talked about trademarking. If you are investing your time in a new venture, make sure you protect it. And frankly, make sure you're not violating some else's trademark. This is serious stuff. If you are not a lawyer, and I should say a lawyer that specializes in this, get a pro. Get the right lawyer for this. Don't mess around. The last thing you want is to devote your limited time and resources to something, only to have someone swoop in, and benefit from the brand value that you have created.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you all for all of your support and feedback. I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, and reviewed the podcast. If you're listening and you haven't subscribed yet, it's free. Hit that subscribe button. Of course, please follow me on social media @BobbiRebell on Twitter, and at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, and go to my website. Sign up for my newsletter so I can keep you posted on everything going on with the show and other projects.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed Lauren's story and that we all got one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.