Andy Hill was so in love with his then future wife that he literally used his student loan money to buy her the ring she wanted- and oops did not tell her. He shares what happened when she did find out, and what he would do differently now that he is a financial grownup. Bonus: His tips on how to start a 529 account for your kids.

In Andy’s money story you will learn:

-The big mistake Andy made with his student loan

-The emotional backdrop to that mistake

-Why Andy did not talk to his girlfriend (now wife) about the decision

-His biggest regrets and what he would do differently

In Andy’s money lesson you will learn:

-The options Andy wish he had considered

-His advice on the best ways to communicate about money in a relationship

In Andy’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-HIs take on 529 plans and how he did his research

-The factors to consider in choosing a 529 plan

-Why Andy chose his plan for his children’s college savings

In my take you will learn:

-How to plan for expenses related to life events, like getting married!

-The cost of not just engagement rings, but weddings as well

-Recent changes to how 529 plans can be used

-Resources to get more information about 529 plans

Episode Links

Andy’s website:

Marriagekidsandmoney.com

Get Andy’s e-book : Young family wealth playbook

Listen to Andy’s podcast! 

Follow Andy!!

Twitter @andyhillmkm

Instagram: @AndyHill 827

Facebook @andyhillMKM

 

Learn more about 529’s: 

Link to the SEC website:

https://www.sec.gov/reportspubs/investor-publications/investorpubsintro529htm.html

Link to the FINRA website Saving for College

http://www.finra.org/investors/saving-college

College Savings Plans Network

http://www.collegesavings.org/

SAVING FOR COLLEGE

https://www.savingforcollege.com/intro-to-529s/what-is-a-529-plan

---

Transcription

Andy Hill:
I took advantage of these student loans that I was using for my MBA program at the time, and just took a little bit extra from my student loans in order to pay for my wife's engagement ring. That's kind of how I started off my marriage with a little bit of debt, also with a little bit of love, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, they say love is blind. That was certainly true for our guest today. Before we get to him, quick welcome to everyone, especially our new folks, we keep the episodes, just so you know, to around 15 minutes. You can fit it easily into your busy schedule while you're running errands and so on.

Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of regulars, though, say they enjoy listening to a few at a time, especially if they are commuting. The idea, do what works for you. You get to hear an inspiring, and hopefully entertaining money story, and then get some specific advice, money tips, things that you could do right away.

Bobbi Rebell:
Today's story is definitely entertaining, heartwarming, but you also might get that sinking feeling in your stomach, like, "Oh, no! He did not!" We've all been there, so into our loved ones that we just want to get them exactly what they want. Budgets, whatever, we find the money, even if we find it in our student loans? Yes, I'm talking to you, Andy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's roll the interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Andy Hill, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Andy Hill:
Thanks so much for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your podcast, marriage, kids, and money. Nominated for the most important podcast awards that there are, the 2017 Plutus Awards. You were nominated for best new personal finance podcast, so congratulations!

Andy Hill:
Thank you so much, yeah. It was a great honor, and look forward to keep on bringing exciting material for all those people out there who are married with kids that love talking about money, or just want to give their families a better opportunity in the future.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I am a hopeless romantic, in addition to focusing on money, and you brought with you a money story that is both romantic and financial, having to do with your engagement. Tell us what happened.

Andy Hill:
Yeah, so back in, oh, this is maybe in my mid-twenties, I met an incredible girl named Nicole and fell in love with her. When you fall in love and you start to see the opportunity for marriage coming up, the first you think of, as a guy is, "Man, I got to get this ring thing going."

Andy Hill:
Me, not making that much money at the time, was probably making $35,000 a year, I said, "Well, I better start saving a little bit of money to make this thing happen." Unfortunately, since we were dating long distance from California to Michigan, my bank account was a little light, we'll say, but my love for her was continuing to grow. I know I had to take advantage of this moment and go for this engagement.

Andy Hill:
We looked at rings together at the store, and we found the ring that she liked, with the type of the style, I found out it was about $5,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ouch!

Andy Hill:
Yeah. That was about $4,500 more than I had.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Andy Hill:
I decided to go for it anyway because I was in love, and I wanted to move this thing forward. The way that I went about it was I took advantage of these student loans that I was using for my MBA program at the time, and just took a little bit extra from my student loans in order to pay for my wife's engagement ring. That's kind of how I started off my marriage with a little bit of debt, also with a little bit of love, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness. That is such a big no-no though. Let me just ask you, taking it back a little, did it occur to you to either wait and save up more, or maybe downsize the ring a little bit, or find ... I don't know if that was maybe the best interest rate you could get on student loans versus taking out a different kind of loan. It's certainly better than a credit card, we know that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Any other considerations at the time?

Andy Hill:
Oh yeah, Bobbi. All these things I could've done better. Could've gotten a better opportunity to get a lower interest rate than ... I think it was 6.8% that I was paying for my student loans. I could've maybe spoken to my wife ... my future wife about it a little bit about the- [inaudible 00:04:43][crosstalk 00:04:43]

Bobbi Rebell:
So, she didn't know about this, she did not know that you went into debt to get her ring.

Andy Hill:
Nope.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would she have said if she knew?

Andy Hill:
I believe that she would've said, "That's not a good idea. We can either wait, or we can look at something that's a little bit more feasible for your actual budget."

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, but you did not talk to her, so that's also a lesson. Just to point out. That's one of the things you talk about a lot on your podcast, is the communication aspect.

Andy Hill:
Absolutely. I preach about it all day long, but did I do it back in my mid-twenties? No. I did not. Definitely having communication with your spouse, or your future spouse is an incredible way to start the marriage, and I definitely did not do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you can get into the mind of 27-year-old Andy, what were you thinking at the time?

Andy Hill:
What I was thinking was, "I'm in love, and I want to make this thing happen as soon as possible. She's shown me the type of ring that she wants, and I want to make her happy." Unfortunately, I didn't think about any of the other consequences that went along with that: the interest rate, not speaking to my future wife about something that's super important. That could've been a really pivotal moment for us, actually, to speak about something that important, and I passed it up, for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
When did she find out? Assuming it's not now, listening to this podcast? When did she find out when you had done that?

Andy Hill:
She found out about the debt that I had, as well as the ring situation a little after we got married when-

Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. The debt you had in addition to the ring. What was the other debt you had? You had $4,500 from the ring, and then what else?

Andy Hill:
It was all these student loans that I had, it was about $40,000 of student loans total, as well as a home equity line of credit, which probably equated to another $10,000, so about $50,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, go on.

Andy Hill:
Yeah, yeah, so we got married, and then with that comes the merging of the finances, right? As we were merging finances we started to have the conversations then about what my debt situation was, and what her debt situation was, and then it became our problem, and something that we worked on together, but she didn't realize until then, "Oh, so I'm now paying off the ring that you bought for me."

Bobbi Rebell:
"I'm paying off my own engagement ring. Thank you very much."

Andy Hill:
How romantic, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so romantic. No. No, no, no, no. Quickly tell us how did it resolve? How did you pay all that off?

Andy Hill:
Well, yeah, so we got together and we made a plan to pay it off. We started to talk about potentially having kids in the future, and we said, "Hey, well, let's work together and pay this off." Combined we were making a little bit over six figures in a salary. We said, "All right, let's live on half, and pay this off as fast as possible," and we were able to clobber it in about 12 months.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from that now that you're a wise, wise old man in your thirties?

Andy Hill:
Yeah, I would say communication as early as possible in your relationship, especially when it comes to money is so important. The opportunity that I did not take advantage of was to speak to my future wife about, "Hey, this ring that you want, I love it, you love it, it would make you feel great, but I just don't have the money right now in order to make this happen. We can either delay our marriage in order to get the ring, or we can look at something that's a little bit more feasible."

Andy Hill:
That would've been a very good financial grownup conversation to have with her at that point in our marriage, for sure. Communication and just working on things as a married couple before you're even married shows the true partnership before you get into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the money tip that you're going to share, because we kind of moved things forward now to the mindset of being parents, which you now are. You have two children, ages six and four. That means time to think about college and getting ready. It's never too early. Tell us your money tip.

Andy Hill:
Absolutely. When we got married we decided to have children, and one of the things as we started to get our financial grownup selves together was, "Hey, if we're gonna be helping our kids get through college we got to start saving now."

Andy Hill:
We started researching 529 programs, and the cool thing about 529 programs is that you don't have to take advantage of the one that's specifically in your state. There are other programs that maybe have lower fees to consider. We did a broad research of all the programs that were available to us in the U.S.

Andy Hill:
We ended up going with our state, because it had good fees, or lower fees, through TIAA-CREF, and actually, there was a great state income tax break, as well, that helps us save a little bit of money each year as we donate into ... as we contribute into our kids' college fund.

Andy Hill:
I guess my tip would be, take a look at all the opportunities that you have to save for your kids through a 529 program, start as early as possible, but definitely take a look at the fees that are associated with it, because some of the programs might have higher fees, and they might not even be in your state.

Andy Hill:
Taking a look at that, as well as getting an understanding of the tax advantages of utilizing a 529 with your state. It's a great way to save, and it's a great way to prepare for the future college costs that we're all looking for as parents.

Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely, and I also want to just ask you quickly before we wrap up about your E-book.

Andy Hill:
Yes, have a E-book on my site called The Young Family Wealth Playbook. It is an amalgamation of all these interviews that I've done on my podcast from the 50+ self-made millionaires, financial independent rock stars, and personal finance experts, and I've taken all that information that will help individuals who are reading it to look at what they can do, all the way from the start of marriage, all the way to being parents and helping your family to build wealth.

Andy Hill:
It's seven steps that I've taken from those conversations, and it'll walk people through how they can grow wealth and create a great future for their family.

Bobbi Rebell:
So cool. Tell us where people can find you, social handles, all that good stuff.

Andy Hill:
Excellent, yeah, so I'm at marriagekidsandmoney.com. On that site you'll be able to check out the podcast, The Young Family Wealth Playbook, as well as my blog. I'm also very busy on Twitter: @andyhillmkm. I'd love to have some conversations, and thanks for checking it out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Andy.

Andy Hill:
Excellent. Thanks so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, Andy. We can't help but be charmed by you, even though I can't believe you did that. So glad you clearly are a financial grownup now, and even more happy that your wife is still there with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one: remember, the ring is just the beginning of the cost of your trip down the aisle, so if you blow your budget on that, oh my goodness. According The Knot, Americans spend an average of $6,351 on just the wedding ring.

Bobbi Rebell:
In Andy's case, given that he got married a few years ago, Andy was relatively in line at the $5,000 mark. If you want to stretch for that, that's fine, but you got to keep in mind what's coming next. The wedding. The average cost of a wedding, according to The Knot, again, is over $33,000, and, of course, in New York City, couples spend even more, almost $77,000, so that's a choice. But, think about it, if you are going to spend that kind of cash, make those decisions as a couple. Andy admits he messed up by not talking to his wife.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two: 529s are a great resource for parents, and if you are sending kids to private school, you now can use them for that, as well, but there are a lot of rules, and you need to play by those rules, or you're gonna get stuck. You're gonna pay higher fees than needed, as Andy warned, you also may have penalties if you try to get the money in a non-qualified way.

Bobbi Rebell:
I will leave a link to the sec.gov website that has a very easy and straightforward explainer article. Read it. I'm gonna leave some other helpful links, as well. You need to do your homework on this, because you may not be able to get to the money in the way you want, when you want, without the penalties, so just do it with your eyes open.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for joining us. If you like the promo videos that you are seeing on social media you can win one. Just share them in social media when you see them. I'll be making one for a lucky winner in July, basically based on whoever shares the most.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast, and, of course, stay in touch by following me on Twitter: @bobbirebell, on Instagram: @bobbirebell1.

Bobbi Rebell:
Andy, you truly became a financial grownup by learning your lesson. Glad it all worked out for you and the wife, and now your children. Thank you for helping us all get once step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Invested author and podcast host Danielle Town talks candidly about her sometimes painful family money history and how she and her dad healed their relationship, and eventually teamed up to educate others about money and investing. 

Danielle's money story:

Danielle Town:
Yeah, when I was about 11 my parents split up. My dad is an investor, he's very well known. My mom was a stay at home homemaker. Mom, they split up, and often when people do that the money is a huge issue. The money was a huge issue for us. They went into a major divorce war. My dad left and he took the money with him. You know, as an adult now I can kind of see what happened there, but at the time I had no clue. I just knew that my dad was gone, and that we had to leave our house, and my mom had to go get a job. Everything changed. We had no money except for necessities.

Danielle Town:
It really affected me and I didn't really understand how much until I started doing ... My dad, just to close that loop. My dad came back, they ended up working things out without lawyers actually, and have now a very good relationship.

Bobbi Rebell:
How long was that period though when things were in disarray?

Danielle Town:
It was a couple years. It was pretty bad for a while.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what did your mom do just to fill in the blank there? She was a homemaker, what did she end up doing for those few years?

Danielle Town:
Well, she was a trained teacher so she went back to teaching fifth grade in the school that we were at actually. You know, she had a skill and she was able to go and do that, but it was just a huge change for us, and she's now a school psychologist, and went back to school, and is doing incredibly well, so she's fantastic. And my dad and I obviously repaired our relationship, but we never talked about money stuff ever. It wasn't until I was in my early thirties, I was a corporate lawyer, and I was starting to make a little bit of money, and I thought, oh, my gosh, what do I do? And I did not want to talk to my dad at all, but I finally ... He was the only person I knew to ask, so I finally turned to him, I said, "What do I do?" And he said, "You have to learn how to invest," which was exactly what I knew he was going to say, and I wanted to avoid it so much, but through various pressures. I was ill, I was exhausted, and I needed to find a way to not be dependent on my salary, and he was the only person I could talk to about that, so we started our podcast together. I started learning about investing, and you can literally hear my entire journey from beginning to now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, yeah. You're very candid on the podcast, which I love also. You mentioned that during the time that this was happening you didn't understand that much, but looking back you do see more of what was going on. Can you share a little bit about that from a financial and emotional perspective?

Danielle Town:
Exactly. I think we avoid so much money pain. I mean, money is different then anything else. Money is so much emotionally about our worth. It's about our worth to our family members, what we can actually bring home to help them financially. It's about our worth at work, what we're actually paid in salary. It's about our worth to our communities, how much can we devote to charity? How much can we support the people around us? I mean, money is intimately intertwined with how we feel and our emotions, and I think we need much more emotional vulnerability around money. I'm actually doing a Ted Talk about this in about a month, at the beginning of July, and it's such an important thing that we need to get going with because if we can change this avoidance that I felt, and that so many of us feel, we are going to be so much more powerful with an instrument that we are not using at all right now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you feel that you, or have you talked to your mom about what was in her mind going on at the time that she had been a homemaker, and suddenly she had to pay attention to money in a different way?

Danielle Town:
Oh, that's a good question, Bobbi. It's tough with. I mean, I don't want to bring my mom into it too much because she didn't ask to be put into this story publicly, but she does very well for herself now, and we have never really talked about that money stuff. It's painful and when we touch on it the pain is very much still there. No, we don't talk about it too much.

Danielle’s money lesson:

Danielle Town:
Yeah, exactly. I think the takeaway is we all grew up in some way with a relationship with money, and we were taught a certain relationship with money. We tend not to think about it too much because without a real perspective on what happened it's just how it is. I mean, there's not much thought about it. I grew up X way, and I kind of assume everybody else did too. I mean, I've had people say to me, like the second I start talking about this with people they know what their money story is. And I've had people say to me stuff like, "Oh, yeah, I was never given anything by my parents except for the bare necessities, so I started working when I was 13 years old, and now I have had a job, I have my own business, and I don't know who I am without working." A woman said that to me recently.

Bobbi Rebell:
Huh?

Danielle Town:
And she had clearly had never put that together, but as soon as I brought it up, as soon as I shared my story she knew hers immediately. It was right there. It's something about that where we need that little tiny push, but as soon as it's there those emotions come right up, and for me it was starting to work with investing, starting to work with financial markets, trying to learn this stuff, which was really difficult for me, and just not quite being able to get there. And it wasn't until I understood just by searching within myself that it was because I didn't fully trust my dad around money, and my dad was the guy teaching me now about money, and about investing that I even confronted that part of me.

Danielle Town:
I mean, if you had asked me a few years ago, I would have said, "Oh, I have no problems with money at all. I'm all super comfortable. It's all fine. Like [inaudible 00:10:15]." And it turns out none of that was true. I actually had a lot to deal with and it was incredibly painful. It's not until we're pushed that we're gonna get into that stuff. I mean, you just asked me if I speak to my mom about this stuff. There's no push to get into that with her, and for many of there is no push. And so until we start realizing that those things are holding us back, and we push ourselves we're not going to take that power back.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. That was very intense. No, but very thoughtful and a lot for all of us to think about. Our emotions and money, and being honest about our money story, and coming to terms with it.

Danielle's everyday money tip:

Danielle Town:
I have two. First of all this is what changed everything for me with my investing, I started to look around and look at what I was buying with my consumer dollars, and I discovered that I interact with products and services all the time every day in my house, in my work, in my daily life that are owned by public companies. And as soon as I discovered that, I realized that the same way I feel about consumer dollars, I can feel about money that I put into investing that I put into public companies, and that that money actually has a much great power than I give to it in my investing bank account.

Danielle Town:
What that means is like I have my Apple iPhone next to me. Okay, so I know nothing about investing. I know about the financial markets. I can go research Apple just by Googling it, just by looking online, and discover some stuff about Apple as a company, rather than as just a consumer product that I use, and that's how I started to get really interested in investing, and start to see it kind of makes the vision look a little more 3D. You start to see companies all over the place. Carpet companies, and book companies, and phone companies, and computer companies. It's crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Everything comes from somewhere.

Danielle Town:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that goes to your whole philosophy with Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger, it's all about investing in things that you know.

Danielle Town:
Invest in things you know, and let's put our values where our money is going. Let's put our money into companies that are doing great things in the world that we support. Just like we do, or we try to do with our consumer dollars right now.

Danielle Town:
My second tip 'cause you said I have two, the second one is very simple, just read the financial news in the morning, read the business news, and you don't have to read the boring stuff. I skip the boring stuff. I read the stuff that just looks interesting. I give myself a good baseline, a good perspective on what's going on, on stuff that's cool, and fun, and interesting to find out about, and that's it. It doesn't have to be hard. It doesn't have to be filled with pressure. It's just simple. Just learn, just read, just understand going forward. And it starts to build on itself, and that 3D vision starts to happen. It's pretty cool when it happens and it happens really naturally.

Financial GrownUp Tip number one:

Whenever you get FOMO, aka fear of missing out, or you feel a little envy about somebody whose life looks perfect, think about Danielle. She is successful, happily married, living what from all accounts looks like a great life, but the truth is her life has been far from perfect. She has had struggles. We all do, but think about what she came back from, and what she built, and the amazing life that she has now. It reminds me a lot of what Tony Robbins talks about, that you just have to just decide, decide to take control of your life, don't be a victim. On the surface she is the child of Phil Town, uber successful investor, but yet you heard the story, things were not always perfect growing up.

Financial GrownUp Tip number two:

If you want to be a better investor, follow Danielle's advice and educate yourself. As Danielle said it can be as simple as keeping up with the financial news. If you want to learn the basics of investing, Danielle's book with her father, and their podcast are great resources. They make it super easy. Also, there are countless websites that can teach you the basics, and also keep you up to speed on the latest news. Some of my favorites are Investopedia, which also has a whole Investopedia Academy. The Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times, and of course my former employers, CNBC. CNN, which has CNN Money now, and Reuters. There's also news aggregators that can make your life easy by pulling together the top headlines like Google Finance, Yahoo Finance, and SeekingAlpha.

Episode Links

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Listen to Danielle’s Ted Talk!!! 

Danielle’s website: www.DanielleTown.com

Listen to her podcast with her dad Phil Town:  Invested and on iTunes here 

Get Phil and Danielle Town’s book Invested! 

Some ideas to get started learning more about investing:

• Investopedia

• CNBC

• CNN Money

• Reuters

• GoogleFinance

• Yahoo Finance

• Seeking Alpha

Follow Danielle!

• Twitter: @danielle_town

• Instagram: @danielletown

• Facebook: @DanielleTownInvested

---

When journalist Vera Gibbons launched nonpoliticalnews.com she had lots of former colleagues and friends telling her she needed to spend money on all kinds of costs, but after making a few missteps, the entrepreneur learned to prioritize and keep her costs in check while she built a strong foundation. 

 

In Vera’s money story you will learn:

-What inspired Vera to start her website and newsletter nonpoliticalnews.com 

-How she was approached about hiring many people to help her, but at a cost, despite the fact that her business was not yet earning money

-Vera’s choices about where to spend her resources in the early days of her venture

-Where she regretted spending money, and where she felt her money was best allocated.

-Vera’s revenue model

 

In Vera’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to evaluate what expenses to take on in the startup phase of a business

-How to prioritize your business needs versus wants

-The legal issues you need to pay attention to when starting a business

 

In Vera’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Why we all need to be paying close attention to interest rates

-How to identify the interest rates in your life that could be going up

-How to negotiate to get your rates lower

 

In my take you will learn:

-How to put your friends “advice’ in context when starting any new venture

-How the upward movement in interest rates can be both a positive and a negative. 

 

Episode Links

Vera’s website: nonpoliticalnews.com

Twitter @nopodaily

Facebook Non political News

Instagram @nonpoliticalnews

Resources to learn more about interest rates and why they are going up: 

 

The Fed: https://www.federalreserve.gov/

Investopedia: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/interestrate.asp

Business Insider: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-fed-raises-interest-rates-2017-12

Kiplinger https://www.kiplinger.com/article/business/T019-C000-S010-interest-rate-forecast.html

Marketwatch: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/rising-interest-rates-give-retirees-good-news-and-bad-news-2018-06-20

To win one of the promo video’s you see- be sure to share them on social media when you see them on my feeds!

Twitter @bobbirebell

Instagram @bobbirebell1

Facebook: Bobbi Rebell

Want to share your money story? Write to us and tell us about it at info@financialgrownup.com

---

Transcription

Vera Gibbons:
They said "We'll do 20 videos for $20,000. You should do a podcast, your website needs to be revised, I'll do it for $15,000." I'm a startup, and I have no income, and I have no revenue, how am I going to pay for any of this?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. We talk a lot about living within our means, and ideally below our means, when we talk about personal finance. But the truth is, that also applies in business, especially with startup businesses that are as they say pre-revenue. Before we get to our guest, I just want to welcome our new listeners, and of course welcome back our regulars, we keep the show on the shorter side around 15 minutes, so you can fit it into your busy day. But of course, feel free to binge on a few episodes if you've got half an hour, two episodes, and so on. The idea is that we share money stories that are going to give us something to think about that may relay to our personal lives, maybe our careers and business lives, which these days are blending together more and more. We also do everyday money tips, because we want you to have more money.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, I guess Vera Gibbons spent years as a Consumer Journalist before starting her website, Non Political News, aka NoPo. When she did, everybody wanted to help her out and have their hand out. Here is Vera Gibbons. Hey, Vera Gibbons, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Vera Gibbons:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to be your guest.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your new website, Non Political News, something we all need a little bit of.

Vera Gibbons:
It is a labor of love. I started it a couple of years ago, and it's really been growing like gangbusters. All the news is non political, and then we have some fun stuff and some stuff that is just frivolous and interesting. It's resonating, people really seem to like it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to hear more about it, but first I want to get to your money story, because it has to do with being an entrepreneur and starting a business, and the fact that sometimes we take on costs that we should not. Tell us more.

Vera Gibbons:
That is a big problem. All my life, as you know, I've been bouncing around on different TV shows, doing personal financing consumer segments. Then I started NonPoliticalNews.com, so the big money story is it's expensive to be your own boss. This is probably why people don't do it. There are legal costs, there are marketing costs, and they add up, and they add up very, very quickly, as I quickly found.

Bobbi Rebell:
People tell you that you need to do this, you need to do that.

Vera Gibbons:
It never ends. When I first started NonPoliticalNews.com I had people approach me from NBC, where I used to work, and they we're saying "Oh, do you want me to do some videos for you?" They said "We'll do 20 videos for $20,000. You should do a podcast. Your website needs to be revised. I'll do it for $15,000." I mean-

Bobbi Rebell:
Those are big numbers.

Vera Gibbons:
Big.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because your revenue was what at this point?

Vera Gibbons:
Zip.

Bobbi Rebell:
Zero. Zero revenue and these people are hitting you up.

Vera Gibbons:
They wanted to do all sorts of stuff and they weren't taking me and my personal situation under consideration at all. I'm like "Hey, I'm a startup, I have no income. I have no revenue. How am I going to pay for any of this?" People were telling me "You should bring on people to work for you. You should hire someone to do the marketing." I hired one person to help me with email problems, with the delivery of our email. We use MailChimp, as everybody does, because I'm a newsletter business pretty much. The email goes out every single morning at 7:00 into your inbox. Occasionally, some people weren't getting the email, or it was showing up late, or it was bouncing back. So I had to bring in somebody to help me with that. But at the time I was thinking "I just got to make sure this email gets out to my subscribers every single morning, and it's consistent in the delivery." So that was a priority.

Vera Gibbons:
Now we had another priority that literally landed on my desk, which was we had a trademark problem, I had trademarked NonPoliticalNews.com, and somebody was infringing on our trademark. That was a big legal cost that I had to undertake for obvious reasons, we couldn't have this happen. We had to do a cease and desist, and [inaudible 00:04:42] people out, and then we ended up buying their domain. It was a big ordeal. It also held up the marketing side of things too, because I was like "Well, I can't really continue with using the name Non Political News or NoPo News as call it if somebody else has that name." People are confused with where they're going, and they're being miscorrected. That was a big unfortunate legal battle that we had to undertake, and that was an expensive one.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did this all evolve to where you are now in terms of your ongoing expenses, your payroll basically?

Vera Gibbons:
I did make a compromise with videos. They had wanted me to do like 20 videos for $20,000. I worked out a deal with them where I did a couple just to test the waters for a couple thousand dollars. In the end, that was a financial mistake actually, because the videos did not do all that well, they weren't generating the kind of traffic or interest we wanted. I had actually found a couple of typos in one of the videos before it went out. I'm like "What am I paying for all this for?" That was a mistake. Thankfully it wasn't that big of financial a mistake, it was just a couple thousand dollars, the cost of doing business.

Vera Gibbons:
I also had a lot of people who approached me and wanted to help me with the social media. That's still a work in progress, because I'm not very good at social media, and I don't really like it. But at some point, I'm probably going to have to hire somebody to do that, because I know now that in order to get your product out there, and to get the word out there about your product, you need to have someone pretty aggressively promoting it on Instagram, and Twitter, and Facebook. I've been not very good about that quite honestly. The bulk of the money has gone toward my website guy, he redid the website, it looks pretty good now, it's a little flashier, it's a little more user friendly. My marketing, he's just a part-time marketing guy, he's on a retainer. He does help me with Facebook promotions, and a little bit of social media. We occasionally do free giveaways via NonPoliticalNews.com, where we partner up with various entities, and we provide something for our subscribers. He's been helping me with some of those promotions.

Vera Gibbons:
Those can be costly too depending on how you market them on Facebook. Facebook has changed all the algorithms now, so it's a little trickier than it used to be perhaps, but that has been primarily where I've been spending the money.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's the revenue model?

Vera Gibbons:
The revenue model is, at some point we're going to be doing sponsored segments. We do have, the way it's organized now is we have different categories. We have consumer/personal finance, health and wellness, fashion/beauty and fitness and diet. Every day into the night, and early morning, I curate the news within those categories. At some point soon, we're going to partner up with influential people within each of the respective categories, and we're going to tap into their followers and see if it ... to catch on with Non Political News.

Bobbi Rebell:
Vera, what is your money lesson from that story? Taking on all of those expenses, some you didn't take on, some you did and regret.

Vera Gibbons:
I guess the lesson is, do what is absolutely necessary at the time, and hold off on the other things until that becomes a complete necessity. For me, the necessity is we're dealing with email delivery problems, obviously you want to make sure-

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because if people aren't getting their daily emails, you have no business.

Vera Gibbons:
Exactly. That was a hot fire I had to put up immediately. Then the other issue was this legal issue, we had someone infringing on our trademark, and that was another hot issue that had to be taken care of immediately. The other stuff could wait, and some of it is still waiting. It's just been a work in a progress.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about an everyday money tip, because you're in the news business, you know what's going on, and that gave you an idea for something people need to be paying a lot of attention to, maybe more than they think.

Vera Gibbons:
Check your interest rates, guys. A lot of people do not even know what their interest rate actually is. We are in a rising interest rate environment, you really need to know where you stand on that front, because your costs are going to get more expensive, you probably, maybe, perhaps have noticed things are going up on your credit card.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. What are the different interest rates that people should be checking that could change, that aren't usually fixed?

Vera Gibbons:
That would be your variable rate loans, your credit cards are variable rate loans. If you had an adjustable rate mortgage, that's a variable rate loan. These are the types of things that people really need to check, especially that credit card rate, because when Fed raises their rates, your credit card rate goes up in sync, pretty much immediately. 25 Basis Point hike may not sound like a lot, but we've had a couple, and we're potentially going to get three or four hikes for the total of 2018. That credit card debt you carry months to months, to months over, you revolve your debt, is going to be more expensive.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's say you have a credit card, and you know it's not being paid off any time soon, what can you do?

Vera Gibbons:
If you have good credit, in the 700 range, you could always call up your credit card company and see if they'll actually lower your rate. That strategy continues to work today. If you have been paying your bills on time, if you've shown them that you're reliable, that you do pay everything off, and you're responsible, they may actually be willing to give you a bit of a break. That has been true for years and years and years, but a lot of people don't bother actually taking that step. If you notice your credit card rate has gone up, and it probably has over the course of the last six months, you could always pick up the phone and ask the credit card company to lower that rate, or to bring it down to the rate it once was a couple of months ago.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tell us a little bit more about Non Political News and where people can find it, where people can learn more about it, and more about you.

Vera Gibbons:
Non Political News, you can find it on NonPoliticalNews.com, once you sign on to subscribe, you will get a link to confirm your subscription, and then every day in your inbox, 7:00 a.m., you get a nice [inaudible 00:10:54] of Non Political News in consumer/personal finance, health and wellness, fashion/beauty, fitness and diet. Then on Friday, we run guest posts. We've had Jean Chatzky, we have had Peter Greenberg, we've had a bunch of CNBC people up from Bill Griffeth to Ron Insana up to Guy Adami do them.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know you're not a huge social media fan, but people would probably really enjoy following you, where can they?

Vera Gibbons:
Thanks, Bobbi. Yeah. We do have an Instagram account nonpoliticalnews. Like you said, I'm not very good about putting updates on there, but I promise to get better. On Facebook, we're Nonpoliticalnews. Twitter, we're NoPoDaily.

Bobbi Rebell:
NoPoDaily, like it.

Vera Gibbons:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Vera Gibbons, thank you so much. This was wonderful.

Vera Gibbons:
Thank you, it's been a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
So my friends, Vera learned some very big lessons very quickly. Financial Grownup tip number one, tune out the advice from well-meaning friends, who want you to take on costs before your business mission and priorities are well defined. Frankly, before you can afford them. Vera still has no clear path to revenue, so she's right to limit her expenses to only the most essential, making sure her emails go out without a hitch and paying her legal bills. She knows that if she adds people on, as she does on occasion, she keeps it freelance, and project-based, so flexibility is still there for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, if you aren't already, start paying attention to the news regarding the Fed and interest rates. It is going to get personal real fast. If you have any kind of loans, this is important to be paying attention to. But here's the good news, there is an upside, low rates have also meant very low returns for those on fixed incomes or those that just invest in fixed income instruments. Rates for things that you might want to invest in, like CDs, are going to go up. Glass half full my friends. I will leave some links in the show notes of places you can get some great information and stay up to speed on what matters.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you are not already, please hit that subscribe button. If you are listening on Apple podcast, or iTunes, please rate the podcast or leave a review. Also, if you liked the show, just tell a friend. Ask them to check it out as well. If you are enjoying the promos, and want one for yourself or for your business, follow me on social media and share them. I will be choosing a winner soon and it could be you. I am on Twitter, @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, and Facebook @bobbirebell. DM me your thoughts on the show, and what guests you would like to hear from.

Bobbi Rebell:
Loved how candid Vera Gibbons was with us about the challenges of starting and growing a business. Lots of lessons in hindsight already. So thank you, Vera, for bringing us all one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Shane Snow and his Contently Co-Founders had a booming business- that almost completely crashed after they found themselves strapped for cash and struggling to meet payroll. Plus the nutritional bang-for-the buck of popular diets, including the Keto diet and ramen noodles. 

 

In Shane’s money story you will learn:

-How he and his partners overlooked a key metric as they grew their business, Contently

-The importance of cash flow vs receivables

-The solution the company came up with that saved them, when they only had 2 weeks of cash left on hand

-How the experience impacted Shane’s personal financial plans and habits

In Shane’s money lesson you will learn:

-To pay attention to revenue, but also when it received as well as the net profit

-How to apply his business lessons to your personal financial life

In Shane’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Why Shane made a nutritional change for health and efficiency

-The financial benefits that came along with the experiment

In my take you will learn:

-Why reading at least a book a week is a habit of many successful people

-My advice on how to read a book a week, starting with Shane Snow’s “Dream Teams” 

-How removing every day decisions, like food and clothing choices, can free up your mind to be more focused on other things

Episode Links

Learn more about Shane Snow at shanesnow.com

Buy (and Review!)  Shane’s book “Dream Teams” 

Buy Shane’s book “Smart Cuts

Follow Shane!

Twitter: @shanesnow

LinkedIn ShanedSnow

Instagram: @ManEatingRobot

To win one of the promo video’s you see- be sure to share them on social media when you see them on my feeds!

Twitter @bobbirebell

Instagram @bobbirebell1

Facebook: Bobbi Rebell

Want to share your money story? Write to us and tell us about it at info@financialgrownup.com

---

Transcription

Shane Snow:
We made this enormous mistake that almost killed the company a year or so into the business. We looked at our bank account and realized that we had two weeks of cash left.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Close call for our guest but, spoiler alert, they did escape that near-death experience. The company, Contently. The voice you were hearing was co-founder, Shane Snow, who just released his latest book, Dream Teams. Before we get to more about Shane and the book, a quick welcome to our new listeners and welcome back to those who are returning. We try to keep our episodes to just around 15 minutes because we know you guys are so busy, but you can also, of course, binge if you're a commuter or you just have a little bit more time some days. The idea is that you invest the time and get an inspiring money story from a high achiever that gives you value and you also get an everyday money tip that you can put to work in your life or your work, right away.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, you're going to get that here. Shane Snow is an entrepreneur, a journalist, an author, so much more. I wanted to have him on to talk about his most recent bestseller and that is, Dream Teams: Working Together Without Falling Apart. It's tough to get along, teams are hard. It's sometimes just easier to work alone and he talks a lot about that. Shane jokes that he hates business books, but this book is really more about people and stories and things that we can really integrate into our own lives. I learned a lot of things about history and the world that I thought I knew about, but there were nuances that people have never really shared publicly. And Shane is a master at research and revealing the full story when we didn't even know that we had part of the story. Here is Shane Snow.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Shane Snow. You're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Shane Snow:
Thank you, I feel like a grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're definitely a grownup, you have so many accomplishments. The latest one, and we're going to get to all of them later but the latest one is your new book, Dream Teams: Working Together Without Falling Apart. And you've had quite a week promoting it, lots of accolades. Congrats.

Shane Snow:
Thank you. Yeah, it's been a lot, a long journey.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's basically of stories about how different teams work together, and often don't work together.

Shane Snow:
Yes, it's about that paradox. That normally group work is much, much harder than we think it's going to be, to the point that actually working by yourself is often more productive than group work. And yet sometimes we change the world when we work together.

Bobbi Rebell:
And one thing that changed the world is your company that you started eight years ago, part of team, you're a co-founder. Tell us about the company. And your money story has to do with what happened when you weren't really watching all the numbers, just some of the numbers.

Shane Snow:
Yeah. So the company started about eight years ago. The business model changed, it grew into something-

Bobbi Rebell:
And the name of the company is?

Shane Snow:
Contently.

Bobbi Rebell:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Shane Snow:
And it grew into a much bigger business than we thought it would, which is great. And initially the first piece of the business that we build was this marketplace for getting freelance journalists and photographers work and getting them paid. And a lot of the clients were brands, so it was this new branded content marketing thing. So Pepsi wants to hire some reporters to go cover a conference and write about it for their blog, that sort of thing.

Shane Snow:
So what happened, we started getting excited because the business was working. We're getting lots of work for these journalists and lots of clients, and we made this enormous mistake that almost killed the company a year or so into the business. We were looking at all the money that our clients were on the hook for paying us and realized that we had this runway for six months before we would need to raise money from investors again, or maybe figure out how to get profitable by then. So things were going great, but we then looked at our bank account and realized that we had two weeks of cash left. Nobody had been paying attention to cash flow. The fact that we actually pay these creative people who do the work for the clients and the clients take a long time to pay us, basically we were floating all of this money. And nobody had bothered to ... We didn't have a finance person, we were a start up.

Bobbi Rebell:
So basically there was a lag between the receivables and the cash that you were actually paying out.

Shane Snow:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
You were basically acting like a bank.

Shane Snow:
Yeah. And the more successful we were, the worse it got. And so thank god someone checked and we were like, "Oh, no. We have two weeks left before we literally got out of business because of this problem." And so we founders cut our salaries so that we could put that toward payroll for our employees and we just sort of prayed for a miracle. And the miracle did come, but basically we asked our customers if they'd be willing to pay us upfront for what they excepted to be paying these freelancers. And basically everyone said yes and then we actually got a positive cash float, like a cash carry I guess?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Shane Snow:
Where our cash flow was so good that we could grow the company even better. But that was just sort of this miracle. Also we-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you worked together as a team. You worked together as a team and figured it out, right?

Shane Snow:
Right. Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
And investors.

Shane Snow:
Yes, yeah. We asked the clients if they would do that and they all said yes and we got our investors to sort of float us for a few more weeks. But I learned this as sort of a personal lesson, that even through it's sort of obvious, that cash flow can kill you basically. And so I've started paying a lot more attention to my cash flow and my personal finances, as a result of this.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners, regarding your money story?

Shane Snow:
Pay attention to all of the numbers, not just the fun ones. The profit number and their income, that's the funnest number, but you really need to pay attention to-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, it's really not profit, it was revenue was coming.

Shane Snow:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
The revenue.

Shane Snow:
[inaudible 00:06:20].

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Shane Snow:
Right. The revenue number, exactly. But even in your personal finances I think, paying attention to just the salary number is not actually the one to pay attention to. And when you're getting money in and when you're paying money out is sometimes more important.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to get to your everyday money tip because this is a really good one. I am personally very curious about this because I keep hearing about this and it's a little bit experimental. But let me let you tell it, go ahead.

Shane Snow:
Okay. So I really like doing personal experiments and gonzo journalism, so one time for GQ I ate only this "healthy", in quotes, ice cream for ten days and lost a bunch of weight. And anyways, so I like doing stuff like that. And there's this stuff called Soylent that came out maybe five, six years ago, that's basically like a meal replacement drink, kind of like the goop on the Matrix. It's not supposed to taste like really anything and it's supposed to have everything your body needs.

Bobbi Rebell:
Pure efficiency.

Shane Snow:
Exactly. And the guy who made it, I actually interviewed him about it years ago. The guy who made it, his reason for doing it was so that he wouldn't have to think about cooking or food. It sounds like the most boring thing ever, he was like, "I don't want to think about food, so I made this replacement food." It's interesting. But there's a version of it, I think a competitive company, called Ketolent, which is that, it's like a drink that instead of eating food you just drink this drink all day. And it's chocolate flavored, which is more delicious, but it also puts you in ketosis, which is like a low-carb basically, where your metabolism changes and it's very good for-

Bobbi Rebell:
Are you hungry?

Shane Snow:
No. So that's the thing is ketosis, it changes your metabolism. So that instead of burning basically sugar, it burns lipids, fat, and that's a much more stable energy source. The upside of this, so I started doing this for working out and it's good for blood sugar levels and all that, but the upside of drinking Ketolent instead of food is it's a lot cheaper than going to lunch every day. And you know, you need to take like-

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you eat it for every meal? Is it like a full on thing?

Shane Snow:
Yeah. I mix up two big bottles of it every day. Like on weekends, I'll go to brunch, you can't do it every day or you'd go out of your mind. But you eat it every day or-

Bobbi Rebell:
And how much does it cost?

Shane Snow:
It ends up being something like eight buck a day. If you want to do the pre-mixed ones, which is even more convenient, then it's a little bit more but it's still ... It actually reminds me, I had this friend, one of my best friends in the world, in college he was trying to micro-optimize calories for percent, or whatever, in his diet. And he figured out this optimum combination of oatmeal and rice and he was miserable but he saved so much money.

Bobbi Rebell:
People stereotype that people that want to save money, they eat only ramen noodles while they're paying down their debt. I wonder what the nutritional value per serving, per cost, is for ramen noodles versus this keto diet and all the other diets. That's just, I don't know, interesnting.

Shane Snow:
Yeah. Well, getting it right, because you don't want your brain to not function.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Shane Snow:
I imagine that eating only ramen noodles is very bad also for your digestion I bet.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, wait. Let's talk about your book.

Shane Snow:
Okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because I'm obsessed, I literally meant to just read enough to kind of get through the interview but I read the whole thing. I spent a little over four hours, you spent four years writing Dream Teams. One of my many favorite things about this is that it's almost like a suspense thriller because it told these stories where there's always these zingers at the end of each story.

Shane Snow:
Yeah. So I wanted to explore that paradox, that we say that two heads are better than one and, yeah, all of these things that you just said. And it turns out that research shows that's usually not true, and anyone that has worked in a group project at school knows that sometimes it's much easier to just do it on your own rather than in the group. And the bigger a team gets in business, the slower things get, the more communication is a pain, but there's all sorts of other psychology that basically says that group dynamics get in the way of productivity and progress. And so I wanted to explore that and kind of what does science and research tell us about our common conceptions about working together, so that we can actually fulfill that promise of becoming better than the sum of our parts.

Shane Snow:
So it's a non-fiction, science, and business book, essentially. But I hate business books and I-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I don't feel like this seems like a business book because you have everywhere from Wu-tang Clan ... Did I say that right?

Shane Snow:
Yeah, you did.

Bobbi Rebell:
The Russian hockey team, which, by the way, there's a zinger in there that I did not know. This whole miracle on ice with the US team.

Shane Snow:
Oh, yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know if people knew what really happened on the Russian side but let's not spoil it for them, but you gotta read that one.

Shane Snow:
Okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
The Wright Brothers, the importance of play in being successful, and why a lot of mergers fail. And even you've got George Takei in there and how pop culture and people seeing things be normal changed our cultural expectations.

Shane Snow:
Well, thank you. What I wanted to do is talk about these things and the real research and the real science that can change our minds and, in some cases, blow our minds, about this. But I wanted to do it through stories that are fun, even if you don't care about the lessons. That for me, I wanted to write the kind of book that I would like to read, which would be more cinematic with surprises and twists and stories that I was excited enough to learn about that I would actually want to write about them too. So I'm glad that ... It is a nice compliment that you got through it so fast and enjoyed the stories.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think everyone will get through it so fast and then they can read your previous book, Smartcuts, so it's all good. So Shane, tell us where people can find out more about you and where they can follow you on social media, because I know your selective in your social media.

Shane Snow:
I'm pretty selective in my social media. So shanesnow.com has links to everything. And well, anyone that's listening to your podcast, I can give them my Instagram. It's not Shane Snow, it's maneatingrobot.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Shane Snow:
Yeah, of course. It's self-explanatory, I think.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Shane Snow:
I actually really like maneatingrobot because depending on the punctuation it's either a man eating a robot or it's a robot eating a man.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I have to about about that.

Shane Snow:
Man, eating robot.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ah, ah. I'm a little slow on the uptake. All right, Shane. Thank you so much, this has been great.

Shane Snow:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations on the book and all your success.

Shane Snow:
I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, pretty rare to go from bad cash flow management at start ups to the financial versus nutritional value of keto diets and ramen noodles. Bu there you have it, the wonderful Shane Snow, so much fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. In Shane's book, Dream Teams, Shane has a lot of data. One of the data points that he talks about is statistics linking the fact that the most successful people in the world are also what I would call intentional readers, meaning they read at least a book a week and make a point of it. They really carve that time out of their day to make sure that they read because that's where they feel that they learn about the world and become interesting people. You're busy, I'm busy, we're all busy, but they're busy and they find time. I'm right there with you, I know it's hard, but try an experiment, maybe with Shane's book. I read it on my Kindle and it said, for example, that it would be over five hours, but because there were so many notes from Shane's research at the end it was really maybe four and a half, let's say.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this week, this is my challenge to you guys, pick up Dream Teams, you can do it with another book but Dream Teams was good. On your calendar, block 45 minutes either early morning or before bedtime, do it before you turn on the TV, before you reach for the phone and start going through social media, set it an alarm, book it as an appointment in whatever you use to book your appointments. By dedicating 45 minutes-ish, a night, for the week, you'll be done by the end of the week and you'll probably have some interesting takeaways from the book as well and feel like you really got value from that time, versus just mindlessly scrolling through your feeds on your social media. Maybe then go write a nice review for Shane, authors love reviews. I love reviews, you could write a review for the podcast too. But consider making it a habit to go through and read a book a week, once you do it, you might really enjoy it and it'll stick and it'll be a great thing adding to your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Shane talked about how his keto-loving friend liked the idea of not having to think about what to eat, it just removed a decision. So removing decisions that are discretionary is something that a lot of leaders do. Consider that, maybe have the same breakfast every day, or buy all the same socks. Whatever it is that removes a decision, that removes having to do that one more thing each day. My son's school, for example, next year has uniforms, so that's going to be a new thing for us. He's pretty good in the mornings anyway, but it's going to be interesting to see how removing the decision of what to wear in the morning impacts his morning routine and, in turn, impacts my morning routine.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, we hope that you are making Financial Grownup part of your routine. If you like the promo videos that you see on social media, share them, you may even win one for your company or yourself. And just tell a friend if you like the show, and let them know so we can grow our community. If you want to be a guest, you have a great money story or money tip you want to share, tell us by emailing at info@gfinancialgrownup.com, that's info@financialgrownup.com, and you may be a guest on the show. Follow us on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and on Facebook I am @bobbirebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
Shane Snow has come a long way from his cash flow crunch, so thank you Shane for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup, with Bobbi Rebell, is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Likeable media’s Carrie Kerpen made a decision to step away from the day-to-day of her growing social media agency to focus almost exclusively on brand building. Today she is the host of the All the Social Ladies podcast,  the author of Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business, and hosts a Facebook Watch channel under the Work It brand.  

In Carrie’s money story you will learn:

-About Carrie’s company Likable, which is the 6th best place to work in New  York City!

-How Carrie and her husband started their company with just $10,000

-Why they chose to grow organically rather than take outside funding

-The strategy behind not taking outside advertising on Carrie’s popular podcast “All the Social Ladies”

-How and why Carrie became so focused on brand building for Likeable

-The specific steps she planned and executed to achieve targeted milestones

-Why the re-branded the company from its original name (and what that name was!) 

In Carrie’s money lesson you will learn:

-What to have in place in business before you start a brand building campaign

-How to determine the budget

-Metrics to consider when planning both short and long term goals

-Carrie’s strategy to balance content and connections on her podcast and other ventures

-How Carrie builds - and tracks- long term relationships with potential business partners, well ahead of time

-The specific kinds of goals Carrie sets to make sure she is generating value

-The biggest danger of long-term brand building strategies

In Carrie’s money tip you will learn:

-Her big negotiating strategy

-What she means when she says to hit the mute button

-How to use awkwardness to your advantage

-The secret to stalling as a strategy

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of making sure you have financial stability in your business, and in your life, before you pull yourself into longer term strategies

-Why tracking everything, including touch points with long term leads is essential

-How paying it forward creates a culture of giving and supporting- that nearly always becomes a profit driver for all parties involved. 

 

To get a free promo video- when you see the video-s share on social media!

 

Got a great money story to share? Be a guest! We love to have listeners on. Write to us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us your money story and an every day money tip and we’ll let you know if you have been selected for an upcoming episode!

 

EPISODE LINKS

Likeable.com

Listen to the All the Social Ladies Podcast!

Check out Carrie’s website CarrieKerpen.com

Get Carrie’s book Work it!

Follow Carrie!

Twitter @CarrieKerpen

Instagram @CarrieKerpen

Facebook Carrie Kerpen

Watch Carrie’s Work It Series on Facebook!

---

Transcription

Carrie Kerpen:
I track everything. Every email I send. Every time I get coffee. All of the things that I do with people who are qualified. And I also track what value I'm adding to them. I often send them things whether it's sending an article that I find relevant. Whether it's article to get them a piece in Forbes or something along those lines. I always am looking at how I can help people who can help me too.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me certified financial planner [Bobbi Rebell 00:00:29], author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own . We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Ever wonder how those cool brands, become so cool. Well there's actually a whole business around it. It doesn't happen by accident. We have one of the best in the business here with us, giving us the scoop on how she builds her own social media marketing and branding business. And personal brand. And it is very intentional and thought out. You'll be surprised how much goes into it. Nothing happens by accident my friends. First a quick welcome to our new listeners and our returning ones. So happy you're with us. If you like the show, tell someone. And of course don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes. I also want to thank everyone that's been emailing me, DM'ing me, posting compliments, on various social media about the video promos. Thank you. I really appreciate it. I did them by myself, and they were so much fun and I'm also really excited that we are having this contest where I'm going to get to make one for one of you, for your business or for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All you have to do is share them between now and July first. If it goes well, we'll do it again. But I need you guys to share the videos when you see them, retweet them, on Facebook share them, on Instagram. You can repost them and make sure to tag me so that I see it, but I do have software that tracks as well. And you know what? You got to be in it, to win it. So you guys, you've been emailing me asking if you can pay me to make one. This is a way to get one for free, literally the most tiniest effort, totally free and I can't wait to see who I get to make one for. It's going to be really fun. Let's go to our guest. Likable Media's Carrie Kerpen, is the host of all the social ladies podcast, the author of Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business. And she also, because she has so much free time, she's also a mom and a wife by the way, she hosts a Facebook watch channel, under the Work It brand as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
She has fun for sure, but as you will hear she is meticulous in tracking her return on brand building investment. Carrie has specific metrics and goals, with all this content creation going on. She is laser focused on making sure that all of the pieces of her Likeable strategy work together. Like I said guys, nothing happens by accident, there's not a lot of luck involved. It's a lot of hard work, here is Carrie Kerpen. Carrie Kerpen you're a financial grownup welcome to the podcast.

Carrie Kerpen:
Thank you so much Bobbi, I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love watching all of your different developments to your journey, in addition to being the head of Likeable Media, you have your podcast, All the Social Ladies, because you're a social media agency. You have your book, Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business. And of course you have columns in Ink and Forbes, and now you're in TV videos. You're everywhere Carrie.

Carrie Kerpen:
Thank you. I try. I'm trying.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait I have one more shout out. Your company, Likable Media, is the sixth best place to work. Is that in the world, or just New York City?

Carrie Kerpen:
That's New York. Sixth in New York City, but if you ask me it's the best place in the world to work. Because everybody's really does have a great time here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I visited it, and I can attest it's a really great group of people that you have working at Likable, so. That's a very well earned, accolade. Is that what you call it? Award?

Carrie Kerpen:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know.

Carrie Kerpen:
An accolade, a distinction. Any of the things.

Bobbi Rebell:
All good things, yeah. So you do a lot for your work. So for your money story, what we're going to talk about is the fact that, while you definitely have to focus on the bottom line and earning, you have a nicely growing staff, you've got to support that payroll. At the same time, your money story has to do with making some business decisions, that aren't immediately obvious how they're going to pay off. Tell us what happened.

Carrie Kerpen:
Absolutely. So I have typically been very bottom-line focused in building my business and growing. You know, we grew when we started, my husband and I started this business with $10,000 in the bank, and we worked our way up, as an agency. You would sell clients, you would get in money, you would hire people. And sort of grow organically. We didn't take in funding or anything like that. And I had always been super conscious of the bottom line. And once we got to a point where I felt like we were really stable and I had a good understanding of our profit margins. I decided to take a certain amount of the profit margins and invest in brand building and investing in myself. I started with a podcast, which most people do a podcast, and look at it and say okay, how am I going to make money from advertising. I wasn't-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you are the advertiser. Likable is the sponsor.

Carrie Kerpen:
Exactly. I invest-

Bobbi Rebell:
And you've turned people down.

Carrie Kerpen:
Yes-

Bobbi Rebell:
I know that you've been approached by outside sponsors.

Carrie Kerpen:
Outside sponsors, networks, et cetera. I don't take advertising for that podcast. I didn't take you know, a ton of money for Work It. You know just a simple amount to write it. And really didn't focus intensely on making money from book sales. And I really don't focus on incorporating any sponsors into Work It, now the series that I run on Facebook Watch. I really looked at that as a long game investment, in Likable's future, and in my future. How am I going to build a brand and focus on the brand building activities, and keep it out of being sponsored, you know, really just be truly focused on building the brand and adding value. And not worry so much on that about the bottom line. Understanding that investing in that upfront, yields a long-term result.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were there discussions with your team about this? With your husband, who's not fully involved in the business anymore, but he's still obviously an advisor in your life?

Carrie Kerpen:
Yes. So there were discussions around this both with my team and with my husband who serves on the board at Likable. So I would say that the first place I learned this from was my husband when he launched a book, that became a New York Times bestseller, called Likeable Social Media, back in 2010, when we were building the business. And we had just renamed our business Likable, it wasn't originally Likable when we started.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the original name?

Carrie Kerpen:
The original name was the Cabas Kerpen. We had no idea what we were doing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh that's so interesting, I never knew that. The Cabas.

Carrie Kerpen:
It was a very brief period of time we were the Cabas for about two years and then we decided to do Likable when, on the Facebook it was still like become a fan. You didn't even like a brand page. It was so fortuitous that as we did that, that really propelled are growth forward. Yeah so, Dave launched this book, invested a ton of time and energy in it. Essentially had me running the business while he was working on that brand. Didn't focus so much on book sales just focused on really getting his brand out there. And that really did help propel our business forward. So I learned from him, to do that, but I had a little bit of a lack of confidence of doing that, because I was uncomfortable, A, investing in myself, and B, putting myself in the spotlight. And so I had hesitated for a long time to use that strategy.

Carrie Kerpen:
Once I decided to use the strategy, I also met with the management and leadership team here at Likable, and said hey, I want to be where I can best serve the company. And I think the way I can best serve the company is to help drive leads through building a brand. What do you guys think if we take this year, and we really invest in that? And they thought that it was actually a great idea. And so I had the management structure in place, where the day to day handling of clients, was taken care of by my president, and the leadership team here at Likable. And so that I allowed myself, and freed myself up to do this. And once I had buy in from them, and buy in from Dave, I was ready to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So you were very aware that this was not going to be revenue driving. This was about brand building. What is the lesson then for other people who maybe want to do something that is not direct to the bottom line because there is so much pressure. How do you know when it's worth it? Because there's also the danger that you could say I'm doing this, but they're kind of just going down a road where they're doing something fun and fulfilling but maybe it doesn't necessarily pay off. Not every ... In other words, you were very directed, but how can you tell what is going to be a productive brand building exercise, non-revenue producing thing that you're going to do, that will lead, playing the long game, to building your business, as opposed to something that's just kind of going down the road.

Carrie Kerpen:
I have a few tips on this. So the first is to make sure you have enough in the bottom line to be able to invest in doing this. So I wouldn't recommend starting with this, when you have no bottom line, and no source of income or ability to do this. You need to be at a point where you've built your business enough to be sustainable, and have enough income that you're willing to invest. The second thing, is that you must be able to really articulate the way that this will help your business in the long run. So for me, when I do interviews, I make sure that a certain percentage of interviews are with women who I think can either be future clients or are people who can help me grow Likable. Either as advisors, or something along those lines. And I'm helping them by giving them a platform, and they're helping me, by helping me not only grow my network, but find the right people to work with. And I think the third piece, of what helps you set a strategy like this, is to have a long term goal. So, I wouldn't do this without an ability to have a long term financial goal attached.

Carrie Kerpen:
So in other words, the actual activities may not produce revenue. However, I can pull back and say, because of the women I've met through this, or because of this activity that I've done, I've been able to generate $5 million, over the course of five years. So something that is more long term, helps you thinking in the long term vision. This may not make you money right now, but how will this make you money in the long term?

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you set specific goals?

Carrie Kerpen:
Yes, I set specific goals for everything that I do. First I set specific goals on the bottom line that I need to produce for the, right now. So what are the activities that I'm doing right now that generate revenue? Then on the long term goals, I start with how many people am I going to need who I would describe as qualified? How many women or men am I going to network with who are potential clients of Likable. If that were my strategy. And then, it starts with the number of people I meet. Then the number of touch points, how many times I connect with them. I keep it all really well documented, so that I know that I'm nurturing relationships over time. And I think that's one of the keys to really looking at a long-term strategy. One of the dangers of a long-term strategy is you could say, oh it's so long term, it feels so far away I don't really need to worry about revenue at all. However with that, you can get really lost and invest too much in the current activity that you're doing to build a brand and then not reach the long-term goal. You have to always have that long-term goal in mind and I always have a revenue goal in mind when I do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're being intentional, and you're tracking what you're doing.

Carrie Kerpen:
I track everything. Every email I send. Every time I get coffee. All of the things that I do with people who are qualified. And I also track what value I'm adding to them. Like I often send them things. Whether it's sending an article that I find relevant. Whether it's helping to get them a piece in Forbes or something along those lines, I always am looking at how I can help people who can help me too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another way you can help people is with your money tip, which has to do with negotiating.

Carrie Kerpen:
Yup, in negotiating use what I call your mental mute button. In other words, sometimes when negotiating, we tend to talk way too much. We will go, well I think this, and I think I'm worth this, or I think I should be getting this. And here's why. And let me give you all of these reasons. Instead use a mental mute. Let's say you're negotiating for a speaking engagement. What is the speaking fee for this engagement? And then pause. Let them own the awkwardness. Let them ... Don't say well I normally charge this and well I normally do this. If you just put yourself on mute, let the awkwardness go to them, let them talk, and then give yourself the power to respond. Take a minute. And take a pause. Use that mental mute button and your negotiating will get a lot better, a lot faster.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. Do you ever leave completely and then come back and say I'll think about it, or do you feel you have to give an answer right away?

Carrie Kerpen:
No, I love stalling, I don't mind stalling at all. I think any kind of awkwardness to put on them is good, and owning your own time and your own power in that way is great.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, Carrie Kerpen, tell us what's going on. The book is already a best-seller. Now you're doing more video.

Carrie Kerpen:
Yup. So you can watch Work It on Facebook Watch, under Carrie Kerpen. You can get Work It, at workitthebook.com. And follow me at Carrie Kerpen on all social handles. It's all the same thing. Carrie Kerpen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Carrie Kerpen.

Carrie Kerpen:
You are welcome Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Carrie makes it all look so easy, so it was great to hear the behind-the-scenes. There's a lot of thought and intention going on with everything that Carrie does. Not the least of which is that she didn't start doing all this personal branding until the time was right. So financial grownup tip number one, don't forget, you need for your business to have enough financial stability, so you can do things like meet payroll and other financial obligations, before you go out and do this big brand building like Carrie did. It's not that brand building is a luxury, or nice to have. It's needed. Totally. But keep the lights on in the most basic sense, paying your employees, making sure that payroll is happening and your business is running. That's got to come first. Financial grownup tip number two. Track everything. It is great to be social with clients, potential clients, and business related friends. And sometimes the lines get really blurred with who's a friend, who's a business acquaintance, who's a client. Life is messy.

Bobbi Rebell:
But this is still something that's important. It's something I don't do. But Carrie made me think about it. It is something worth starting to track. A connection made years ago and nurtured, can yield results now or in the future. Don't just go to people when you need something from them. Go to them, when you can give them something that may not even be something that they have been asking you for. Proactively offer to do something for them. Something you know they could benefit them. So many of the best opportunities come from the most tangential contacts. Often people that are not even in your closest circles. It's karma. It'll come back to you. So go today to someone that you haven't touch base with in a little bit, and reach out. And see if there's something you could do to help their business. All right I have been totally overwhelmed by emails and DM's, Facebook Messenger, social media comments, texts and in-person requests, for those promo videos. Just a reminder they are not for sale but they are available to win if you are interested. Very easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
All you have to do is when you see the promo videos on social media, retweet them, share them, repost them, tag me if you can. I do have software that tracks it either way, but just to be sure feel free to tag me when you do that. Don't assume by the way that you're not eligible for some reason. The winner of a recent book giveaway contest for Randi Zuckerberg's Pick Three, was someone that I knew, but you know what? She was first to enter, she was enthusiastic, she flowed directions and she was so excited when she won. As long as you're not related to me, and as long as you don't have any financial ties to the podcast, you are in. And guys isn't free better than paying for a video? I'm excited to see who wins. Anyway, on that note, I'll have to come up with a really good video, a really likable video I should say, for miss Carrie Kerpen.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed her story about investing in brand building. And doing things that sometimes a re a little bit out of our comfort zone. It's hard, even for me. I'm having a tough time getting comfortable sharing more of my life, personal things, but I'm working on it. I confess to not being good at tracking all of my various business coffees and all that stuff. More to come we'll see. But the responses make it worth it, So thanks to all of you. And thanks to Carrie for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a beer cave media production.

Award-winning CBS Business News Analyst, and radio and podcast host Jill Schlesinger CFP® talks about how she literally paid off her ex-husband to go away, after just one year of marriage. She also shares her best tip for organizing and tracking spending. 

In Jill’s money story you will learn:

-The negotiation that went on during her divorce

-The advice her father gave  her and the significance of his perspective

-The financial- and other- costs of marrying the wrong person

 

In Jill’s money lesson you will learn:

-The value of using money and financial resources to move on, even when it is not a fair payment

-How Jill’s background as a trader gave her perspective on cutting her losses in bad situations. 

-How to apply Jill’s lessons to different situations in life, from stocks, to high living expenses

 

In Jill’s money tip you will learn:

-Her advice to cut transportation and commuting costs

-Don’t sweat the small stuff but pay attention to the big stuff like life insurance

-Keep your finances simple, for example charge on just one credit card

-About the book Jill is writing “Dumb Things Smart People Do with Their Money” including a sneak peak!

 

In My Take you will learn:

-Ways to apply Jill’s philosophy of cutting your losses, including stocks, business partnerships and consumer goods

-How to know what to insure

-Specifically how I just was able to get a 44% price cut on my annual home insurance

 

Episode Links

Learn more about Jill at https://www.jillonmoney.com/

Check out the Better Off Podcast

Follow Jill!

Twitter: @jillonmoney

Facebook Jill On Money

Instagram: @jillonmoney

Linkedin JillonMoney

YouTube Jill Schlesinger

---

Transcription

Jill Schlesinge:
He asked for a number that I thought was ridiculous. I countered with a number that he thought was ridiculous. We agreed on a number that we both thought was unfair, which probably meant it was a good deal for both of us.

Jill Schlesinge:
I wasn't paying him, I was paying for my freedom.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, do you ever wish and imagine that there would be a check big enough to make a problem go away? It could happen. We'll talk more about that soon, but first a quick welcome to our new listeners, and welcome back to our Financial Grownup regulars. Please keep telling your friends about the podcast so we can continue to grow, and if you listen on Apple Podcasts, take just a few minutes to rate and review it. That also helps us get discovered and is really important, and needless to say, much appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Jill Schlesinger, award-winning journalist for her national radio show, she is also the CBS Business news analyst, and she hosts the Better Off podcast. I met Jill when my book came out. A mutual friend introduced us, and then I was thrilled when I got to be on her award-winning radio program. Did I say award-winning enough? She won a big Gracie award recently.

Bobbi Rebell:
As you guys know, I'm a big believer in learning from the best, and while modest, Jill is way up there with the best in the business, and scores extra points in my book for being a certified financial planner and encouraging my efforts to get the designation as well. But what I did not expect was such a candid conversation with Jill. What she says about how she literally, she bribed, let's say what it is, she bribed someone to get out of her life. It really took me by surprise. She goes there. You guys should listen to this. You're gonna enjoy it. Here is Jill Schlesinger.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jill Schlesinger, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Jill Schlesinge:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big congratulations are in order. You just got back from a very special trip to LA for a very big award. Tell us.

Jill Schlesinge:
Oh, well as you know, I got a Tony award. Just kidding. I got a Grammy award. No, just kidding, I got something called a Gracie. A Gracie, I'm so old I knew exactly who that referred to. That refers to Gracie Allen who was a very strong woman in Hollywood many, many years ago. The Alliance of Women in Media gives out an award for TV, radio, podcasts, and my executive producer Mark and I won for the best national radio show, so we're very psyched.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm very psyched for you. I am honored that I was once a guest on the show when my book came out. And you even got to walk the red carpet.

Jill Schlesinge:
I know, and that is always sort of a frightening thing for a big, tall woman who does not usually wear heels that are that tall, so that was daunting. That was the hardest part of the whole thing. Give me a spreadsheet to go through, but don't make me walk in heels.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, so you brought with you a money story. Do tell, Jill.

Jill Schlesinge:
Remember when you were on my radio show and at the end you like completely hijacked me and turned the tables, and you're like-

Bobbi Rebell:
Totally.

Jill Schlesinge:
... "Tell me something."

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Jill Schlesinge:
So I have a money story that is basically about divorce, and it's kind of both a real divorce, a marriage dissolving, a partnership, a business partnership dissolving, and my story is this. I learned something from my now deceased father when I was talking about my divorce and I was very upset about the whole things. I had really such a schmucky ex-husband who literally threatened to sue me for alimony after being married for a year, a month, and a day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Jill Schlesinge:
Yeah. I hope you're listening. You know who you are. And what I realized very quickly after my father kind of laid it out for me, he's like, "You know what, honey? You worked your butt off on Wall Street, you made a few bucks, you got some money. All this guy wants is for you to pay him off. Pick a number, make him feel like a man..." He put that in sort of italics, "and move on. And the quicker you move on, the quicker you move on for your life, and there's actually no price tag for that freedom."

Jill Schlesinge:
That is a money story that I have brought through my life, which I was able to actually help my clients with 'cause I went into the client business where I was managing money as a certified financial planner. And as soon as you realized you had enough money to sort of write a check, and you realized that it really wasn't the amount, it was just the fact that you would do it, that that became a really important lesson for me.

Jill Schlesinge:
And so my wisdom to impart on you and your listenership is that sometimes, don't worry about who's right or wrong. Just pay and move on.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, you did that, I assume, with your now very long time ago ex-husband. Was it an amount of money that was meaningful to you or was it actually just a small amount that made it go away in principle? I mean, did it hurt financially?

Jill Schlesinge:
No, it did not hurt financially. It hurt from a pride perspective because I felt like I was being punished monetarily for marrying the wrong person for a year. And so it hurt me to even think that I had to put a dime in this guy's pocket after one year of marriage. What I really stopped doing in that ... again, after my dad gave me this really good advice is that I wasn't paying him, I was paying for my freedom, and that's how I made the adjustment.

Bobbi Rebell:
And how did the ex respond? Did he just say, "Great, I'll take the check. Thank you very much. Goodbye." Or was he a jerk about it?

Jill Schlesinge:
Oh man. Well, obviously if you're married to someone for a year and that person is suing you for alimony, the jerkiness is sort of well-documented.

Bobbi Rebell:
True true.

Jill Schlesinge:
But what I could say is this. He asked for a number that I thought was ridiculous. I countered with a number that he thought was ridiculous. We agreed on a number that we both thought was unfair, which probably meant it was a good deal for both of us, that we both kind of moved on.

Jill Schlesinge:
And you know what? He got remarried, I moved on, it kind of did work out. But again, for me the lesson being, there is absolutely no reason to get stuck. For me, I'm the kind of person who could get stuck on it is not the right thing, and that was just not worth it for me. Whether it was right or wrong or someone was right or wrong or whether I was wronged or he felt wronged, it didn't matter. We both had to get out of this thing. We both realized it was over.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for our listeners, I like what you said before about this isn't just about ending a marriage. It could be about ending any kind of partnership. How does this apply ... what is the takeaway for our listeners? What's the lesson here?

Jill Schlesinge:
I was born a trader. That was my first job on Wall Street. I was a commodities trader, and the one beautiful thing about being a trader is that you quickly learn you always have a bad trade. There's nobody who gets to go through life as a trader and not experience the recognition very quickly of, "Oh my god, I'm in a bad trade."

Jill Schlesinge:
So, you're gonna do that in your financial life a million times over. You're gonna realize like, "Uh-oh, bad trade. Like uh-oh, I actually moved into an apartment that is too expensive for me. I am going to pay the two month penalty to get out and move to another apartment." Or, "I'm going to do something different." Or, "I bought something, I bought a stock, I bought a mutual fund, I did something," and you immediately realize you've screwed up. "I bought an insurance policy I don't understand. There's a penalty to get out. Maybe I need to get out."

Jill Schlesinge:
When you feel that recognition in your soul that you've done something that's probably not right for you, if you don't know for sure, go get advice, but do not ignore that feeling.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, I am on the edge of my seat. What is your everyday money tip for our listeners.

Jill Schlesinge:
Well I have two different things to just impart for everyday money tips, and this is for anyone who lives in a city. Like, I'm a walker. Just walk everywhere. That is actually how I saved more money than anything. People take cabs all the time. I'm a huge mass transit person. Now, you don't live in a place where there is mass transit, this is irrelevant to you.

Jill Schlesinge:
My other everyday tip is don't sweat the small stuff that you ... you're gonna think that I'm a certified financial planner and I count every single penny I spend. I don't. I've done that, but I know generally how much to spend, and I don't quibble over little things. But I'm very thoughtful about big things. So my everyday money tip is that like, you know, you're worried about whether you get a latte at Starbucks versus making your own coffee, that's not the big decision to sweat. Sweat more about the big decisions like, "Gee, I need to buy life insurance but I haven't yet."

Jill Schlesinge:
So, I really am not a big sweat of the small stuff kind of person. My everyday is to live my life, walk around, know exactly how much money's in my pocket, and I loathe to do anything besides charge on one credit card only. That's it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Keeping it simple. Thank you, Jill. So tell me more about what you're up to post-Gracie award.

Jill Schlesinge:
Well, you know, obviously I have to put those shoes away 'cause I'll never walk in them again.

Bobbi Rebell:
So those are not the shoes you use to walk around Manhattan?

Jill Schlesinge:
No. No, I am a big fan of the Allbirds to get all over Manhattan. So, I host a podcast called Better Off. I host a radio show called Jill on Money. I write a column for Tribune. I am working every day at CBS News, both in radio and TV. And here's the big news that I've just submitted my manuscript for my first book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Jill Schlesinge:
So that's dropping next February, so I'll come back on in February when the book drops. How's that?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. Absolutely. Oh my gosh, congratulations. You didn't tell me that till just now. I'm so excited for you. Can you tell us just a little more about it?

Jill Schlesinge:
Yes. The tentative title is Dumb Things Smart People Do With Their Money, and it is based on the fact that I have been in the business for so long and I've been around incredibly bright people who consistently shoot themselves in the foot. They mostly do it to themselves, and there are a series, you know, maybe a dozen or so very practical things that you can do to avoid making those dumb mistakes.

Jill Schlesinge:
So, that is ... it's not a book for everyone, but it is definitely a book for someone who has a brain and says, "Why do I keep doing dumb financial things? I have a brain. Why is it that I can't do these things?" And I know that's most of your audience, 'cause smart people listen to people like you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, thank you Jill. And smart people listen to people like you, and I love listening to your podcast and your radio show. So thank you, and I'm looking forward to your book.

Jill Schlesinge:
I am too. Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jill totally delivered, so let's get right into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: Cut your losses and move on. This applies not just to divorce, as was Jill's main example, it also applies to things like investments, like stocks. If a stock that you liked is no longer in your like category, it doesn't have the same criteria that it had when you picked it, get out. Cut your losses. It's okay to take a loss and move on and use that money to buy a different stock that's maybe a better investment that you'd otherwise be missing out on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Business partnerships, not working, not fixable, find a way out. We all want to come out with the win. You're gonna want to have more, especially if you're in an adversarial position with your business partner, but you know what? Sometimes getting out is more important than getting even. So focus on that and make sure that you can get out and move on to something that's gonna make you happier and maybe more money than that business. Maybe you bought something, maybe an electronic device and the store wants to charge you a re-stocking fee, which is so ridiculous. But you know what? If you don't return it and pay that penalty, you're gonna have something that you don't want taking up space in your home, and you won't have the 90% let's say, of the purchase price that you'd be getting back to then buy what you actually do want. So don't dig in your heels. Just get out, get your money back, move on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Jill talked about insurance, which is a really important thing to talk about, a very grownup thing. At least once a year, take a look, assess what you've got, and figure out, are the things that would be really hard to replace if something unexpected happened covered. Things like home insurance, renter's insurance, they usually have under them, personal liability. Those are good things to make sure that you have. You can usually tie them together.

Bobbi Rebell:
And guys, this is a big one. I kind of blew it. I have not been negotiating well with my insurance companies, but I did recently, I went to my homeowner's insurance company, pointed out that I'm a really good customer. I've been with them for years. I don't file claims, which is very fortunate on my part, hopefully that won't change, and I asked them to lower my rate and just said, "I'm gonna start shopping around for a better rate somewhere else." And you know what? Within 24 hours, they came back with a new policy, all the same coverage, but 44% lower in terms of annual premium. So, that was a nice chunk of change on annual homeowner's insurance just for asking. And if that's my hourly rate for spending not even an hour doing that, I'll take it.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We just had our first listener episode. To be considered for a future one, email us at info@financialgrownup.com. That's info@financialgrownup.com. Share with us what money story you would like to tell, and the lesson and the everyday money tip that you think our listeners would get value from.

Bobbi Rebell:
And a reminder, you can't win it if you're not in it. If you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show, join the competition. All you have to do, it's totally free, when you see one of the promo videos for the episodes, just share it. Retweet it on Twitter or share it on Facebook. Everyone keeps DMing me and telling me they'll never win and can they just buy one. You have to try. Guys, you gotta be in it to win it. Just share it and retweet it and repost, and you may surprise yourself and be the winner.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for being part of our Financial Grownup community. If you enjoy the show, consider leaving a rating or review, and of course, hit the subscribe button and just tell a friend if you're enjoying the show. It means a lot to us.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram at BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook at Bobbi Rebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jill's advice definitely resonated with me. I hope it worked for you as well. We all tend to cling to our previous convictions. We need to move past that. So thank you, Jill, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

 

Indiana-based radiologist Dr. Scott Steenburg joins the Financial Grownup podcast as our first listener to share a money story. Scott shares the story of how a push to have students take out more money than needed to pay for tuition, created devastating debt situations for classmates.

 

In Scott’s money story you will learn:

-Why Scott was offered more money than needed when taking out student loans

-What Scott used his extra student loan cash to buy, and whether it was a smart financial decision

-The things his fellow students spent their extra student loan money on, and how  that impacted their financial wellbeing.

-How the tech stock bubble impacted many of his peers who were leveraging student loan debt

-How much student loan debt Dr. Streenburg had, and how it compared to his peers

-The strategy he and his peers used when they could not pay the debt, along with the consequences

-Whether or not he believes taking on all the debt was worth it

In Scott’s money lesson you will learn:

-His big regret regarding the debt he incurred while in medical school

-The long-term consequences and impact to his peers that spent student loans for things other than tuition. 

-The risks that medical students take on when assuming large student debt, that is unique to the medical profession.

In Scott’s money tip you will learn:

-How you can get medical school debt forgiven

In My Take you will learn:

-how to find programs that allow you have loans reduced or forgiven

-The requirements needed for student loan forgiveness

-Resources to manage, lower, and get rid of student debt

 

EPISODE LINKS

• Government website links:

  • www.studentloans.gov

  • https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation

  • https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service/questions

• Here is the article from Robert Farrington’s The College Investor: 

  • https://thecollegeinvestor.com/578/ways-to-get-student-loan-forgiveness/

• This is the article by Melanie Lockert. 

  • https://studentloanhero.com/featured/the-complete-list-of-student-loan-forgiveness-programs/

• You can also check out Melanie’s episode of Financial Grownup here!

• You can consolidate your student debt, and get  more information by visiting websites, including two that I mention, SoFi.com and StudentLoanHero.com

 

Follow Scott!

Twitter @radiology911

---

Transcription

Scott Steenburg:
Some of my classmates used their excess money to invest in tech stocks. It did not turn out well for them. Some of my classmates lost all of their student loan money in the dot-com bubble.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. This is a big episode here at Financial Grownup. We tried an experiment. We asked you guys to send in your money stories and your everyday money saving tips to potentially be a guest here on the show, and you know what? It worked out really well. We have our first listener episode. I am so excited for how it turned out. Our guest is fantastic. He is a radiologist in Indiana, Dr. Scott Steenburg, so let's get to Dr. Scott's story. It is about the loans that he and his medical school classmates racked up years ago.

Bobbi Rebell:
Student debt to pay tuition is one thing, but taking up more than you need to actually pay the tuition, your real school costs, is a whole other thing, and the reality is that in some cases people are talked into taking out more than they need, just in case. But remember, that money is there and sometimes it doesn't get paid back right away. Sometimes it gets invested in, oh, technology stocks that can crash and burn in the dot-com bubble. It could also go to a new car. You'll hear all about it. Here is Dr. Scott Steenburg.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Scott Steenburg. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Scott Steenburg:
Thanks a lot, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations, you are our very first listener that we are having as a guest. You're the winner, so I'm so excited to have you.

Scott Steenburg:
I'm glad to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just quickly, tell us about you, what you do.

Scott Steenburg:
Sure. My name is Scott Steinberg. I am a radiologist in Indiana. A radiologist is a physician who specializes in interpretation of medical images such as X-ray, CAT scan, and MRI, and my subspecialty is in the emergency and trauma radiology world.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. What made you decide to write in?

Scott Steenburg:
Well, I've been listening to your podcast since the very beginning. A lot of your stories that you have on your podcast are very compelling, and when I heard that you wanted to have a listener on with a compelling story, I thought, "You know, there are some really weird things about the student loan industry," particularly with respect to medical school that I thought maybe this might be something that you haven't heard of before, so I reached out to you and told you some interesting nuggets about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which brings us to your story, which is very interesting, especially because it has to do with your student loans, but also money that you didn't necessarily use for tuition, so tell us exactly what happened.

Scott Steenburg:
Sure. As you probably know, medical school is not cheap, so most medical students need to finance their education with student loans. At that time when I started medical in 1999, it was really easy to get a lot of loans for all four years of medical school.

Bobbi Rebell:
And how much did four years of medical school cost at the time?

Scott Steenburg:
At the time tuition, I went to an instate school, it was maybe 9,000 per semester, so 18 to 20,000 per year, which is not a whole lot by today's standards.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so go on. You were able to get financing, though, to go to school?

Scott Steenburg:
Yes, so during the interview process, you interview for getting into the medical school, and then in the afternoon you meet with a financial aid counselor to figure out how you're going to pay for medical school. At that time, I'm not sure if it's commonplace now, but at that time we were kind of nudged towards taking out the maximum allowable student loans because in future years, if you lower the amount that you requested, there was no guarantee that you'd be able to increase that number in the future, so we were kind of nudged towards just take up the maximum, and if you have access leftover you can do whatever you want with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so how much did you take out relative to what the tuition was? You took out more than the tuition.

Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, so as a medical student it's hard to have a job to help pay for living expenses, so a lot of medical students will finance not only their tuition, but also living expenses such as food and rent and whatnot.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you use the money for, besides living expenses? You bought a car.

Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, yeah. That's one thing that I told you about. If you have excess student loans, you can do whatever you want with it. You can either pay back immediately, which is the financially responsible thing to do. What I did one semester is I knew I had enough living expenses saved up, I already looked at my budget, I knew I wasn't going to need the student loan check, so I literally, it arrived in the mail and I walked across the street to the bank and put it in a one-year CD. At that time, the interest rate was somewhere just higher than the interest rate for the loan, so I did make a little bit on that, but it would have been smarter just to pay back right away to lower the overall balance. One thing I did in the subsequent years, I needed a new car, my car was falling apart, I needed to be able to commute from my apartment to school, so I used my excess student loan money to buy a new car.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you need a car? I mean, was that a legit expense, or did you buy a lot more than you really needed?

Scott Steenburg:
We bought what we needed. The good thing about this, if there is a silver lining, is I put 50% down, so there's a small balance, but then I financed the rest at 7%, which was not a great idea, so I'm using the student loan money that has an interest rate at that time of 3.5% to pay off another loan that has 7%, so that was a terrible, terrible choice.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, but you told me some people did even other things like buying tech stocks.

Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, so this was in 1999 to 2003 when I was in medical school, and some of my classmates used their excess money to invest in tech stocks, and it did not turn out well for them. Some of my classmates lost all of their student loan money in the dot-com bubble.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. That's really scary. Let's talk more about you. So, we get to the end of school. Describe to me how much you had in debt and then what was happening at that point.

Scott Steenburg:
Sure, so I graduated in 2003 and immediately started residency, entered a five-year residency in radiology. At that time, the student loan balance was about 130,000 which by today's standards is a fraction of what students are graduating with. I threw out an informal poll to a closed physician Facebook group that I'm a part of, and the numbers I was getting back for current graduates was between 200 and 400,000. So by today's standards my balance was not all that big, and even the minimum payments at that time were somewhat draconian. I was making a resident salary which at that time was about $35,000 per year, and out of that, of course, I needed living expenses, had to pay for a car, had to commute every day, so even the minimum payment was tight.

Scott Steenburg:
So what a lot of students do in this instance is they first defer, and at that point you could defer up to 36 months. I think it might still be that. Then after that, if you still can't make your payments, then you can go into forbearance, which is even worse, so then throughout the entire time the interest is accruing. From the time I started medical school to the time I started paying down my loan, it was nine years, so that was a long time of compounding.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then where did it stand? How did this end up?

Scott Steenburg:
Sure. The balance tipped the scales at about 165,000. I started making very aggressive payments in 2009, and this story turns out okay. I was able to finish paying off those loans last year. Everything turned out okay, and I really don't have any complaints. Taking all these loans helped enable me to realize my dream of becoming a physician and being a radiologist and doing what I love to do, but I live in a world of chaos in the emergency and trauma world, and I see people's lives destroyed every day.

Scott Steenburg:
Nine years of deferral of putting off student loan payments is a long time. That's a long time, and anything could have happened. If I developed an illness, or if I were in a car accident like a lot of the patients I see every day, or if I developed a disability or for some reason couldn't finish residency, that would have been really, really bad. And fortunately everything turned out okay for me, but for a lot of people it doesn't.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you feel when you would see $165,000 as your balance?

Scott Steenburg:
Honestly, I buried my head in the sand. I didn't want to think about it. When I saw the number going up every month, and each month the amount that it would increase would increase because of compounding, I put it out of sight, out of mind. I kept my eye on the prize of finishing residency, and when I got an attending job, an attending salary, I had to be able to quickly pay it off, but in retrospect, I was entering the danger zone. You know, if something bad happened that negatively impacted my ability to earn income, it may not have turned out so well, and as you know and many of your listeners know, dismissing student loans and bankruptcy is very challenging.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is that something you ever thought about?

Scott Steenburg:
No, no.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Scott Steenburg:
I knew that once I finished residency and got a job I was going to be able to pay it down. I mean, the number is big and it was moderately terrifying, but once I started seeing that number come down, I started to feel better about it. I regretted having that balanced because I knew I could be taking that money and putting it to good use elsewhere. I did some math. You know, if I didn't have student loans and I used all that money to invest, it was a much bigger return than just taking out the student loans.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway then, for our listeners? When you look back at who you were when you were first entering medical school and having these meetings with the financial aid advisors, what would you have done differently, if anything?

Scott Steenburg:
I probably would have taken the excess money that I didn't need. I would have just paid back the balance and be able to give it back. You can use debt as a tool to accomplish your goals. However, if you're going to use debt to finance an education, you have to be very mindful of that. You need to be conservative, only take out what you need and then pay back as quickly as possible. If you use debt, especially for education, incorrectly and something bad happens that negatively impacts your ability to pay back the loan, that could be financially devastating.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about these people that were ... I mean, was it a popular thing at the time to take your student loan money, and instead of using it for tuition, use it to buy stocks?

Scott Steenburg:
That was one popular thing that students did. Other students would, if they had time off, they would go on a nice vacation. Like, me, I helped buy a car. That's what a lot of the students did, and like me, a lot of them were putting it out of sight, out of mind. All we need to do is finish medical school, go to residency, get an attending job with a higher salary, and pay back the loans quickly. But as I said before, it's a long time from the time you start to the time you end and start making a physician salary to be able to pay that down aggressively, and anything could happen in that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is your money tip now? You have something really innovative that maybe some people don't know about, but could really be helpful.

Scott Steenburg:
One thing that exists in the medical world is a student loan forgiveness program where if you start paying off your loans even during training and you go to work for a non-profit, over a shorter period of time you'll have those loans forgiven. I'm sure there are other programs for non-medical professionals where there's a similar type track where if you go to, for example, an underserved area in your field, that you may be able to have some of your student loans forgiven or paid off.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great. Well, thank you so much, Scott. Is there anything else that you want to add? Anything you want people to know about you? How to reach you?

Scott Steenburg:
Sure. If you'd like to follow me on Twitter, I'm @Radiology911.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.

Scott Steenburg:
So that's a nod to my ... that's a nod to my-

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you get that? That's pretty cool that you got that handle.

Scott Steenburg:
I don't know. It just came to me, so I picked it. So that's a nod to what I do. I don't do a whole lot of personal finance there. Most of what I do is medical education, physician wellness, and policy, but if you like to see interesting images, that's where to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you, Scott. You were wonderful, and really thank you so much for supporting the program.

Scott Steenburg:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. So first, student loan debt, as Scott mentioned, is pretty hard to get rid of unless you actually pay it. It stays with you even in bankruptcy, but there are some programs that you can at least look into and some options that are emerging, some new things in just the past few years. I'm going to send you guys to government website called studentloans.gov, and from there you can look for how to repay your loans and go to repayment forms. I'm going to now walk you through some of what you'll see there just to give you a high level sense of your options.

Bobbi Rebell:
So financial grownup tip number one, some loans, like Federal Family Education Loans and Perkins Loans can be eligible for something called Public Service Loan Forgiveness. The key thing for eligibility is that you have made 120 qualifying payments under a qualifying repayment plan while working full-time for a qualifying employer. That's a lot, I know.

Bobbi Rebell:
The key thing, though, qualifying employment is generally things like government organizations, federal, state, local. They even say tribal on that government site. You guys are going to follow up and look for yourselves. Also non-profits, like those with the 501(c)(3) designation. Also some other non-profit organizations, if they provide certain public services, things like AmeriCorps or Peace Corps volunteer. So if you are interested in those things anyway, it could be something to look into that could pay off in more ways than one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number second. Now, this is more for the for-profit schools, some of which were not living up to what they promised students, so you can also apply for something called borrower defense to repayment if you took out loans to attend a school that misled you about the educational services that you paid for with the loans. There's a lot of fine print to all of this. You have to follow up by really combing through the website. It even covers the extremely rare times that student debt can be forgiven in bankruptcy, but again, that's very rare. And also, of course, what happens to student debt if the student or the parents, who in some cases are the borrowers, pass away.

Bobbi Rebell:
A few other resources regarding student debt. Check out one of my favorite websites on this topic, The College Investor. It is run by Robert Farrington. He knows a lot about student debt. He even has a great article I'm going to leave. Well, there's many great articles, but I'm going to leave a link to an article that's one of my favorite in the show notes for more ideas to get your debt forgiven, and also answering questions about things you might have heard of that were options in the past but have now merged into other forms, so it's important to keep up with it. It's kind of a moving target, the way that the laws change. Also, SoFi and Student Loan Hero both run blogs that have a lot of useful information. I'm going to leave a link to a great article by my friend and former financial grownup podcast guest, Melanie Lockert, in the show notes as well that has some great resources.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to radiologist Scott Steenburg for being our very first listener to share their money story and advice. It was great. If you want to be considered for an upcoming episode, email us at info@financialgrownup.com. Tell us what money story and what everyday money tip you would share if you were chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for your support. If you listen on Apple Podcasts, please take a moment to rate and review the podcast. If you are enjoying the podcast, please tell someone that you think would also like it. Spread the word. Post it in one of your Facebook groups and tell people to check it out. If you spot one of our video promos on Twitter or Instagram, share that, and you could win a custom one just for yourself. We're running a little competition.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm on Twitter, @bobbirebell, on Instagram, at bobbirebell1, on Facebook, at Bobbi Rebell. I can't thank Scott enough for reaching out and being our first listener to share a story. It was a good one, and something unfortunately way too many people can relate to, but I do think his story and his great advice got us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Writer Paulette Perhach, known for her F*** Off Fund articles and website, has been featured in Cosmo and Glamour, but collecting cash from her writing clients was killing her ability to be a financial grownup. Paulette also shares her secret to free stuff- and previews her upcoming book “Welcome to the Writer’s Life, our August 15.. 

In Paulette’s money story you will learn:

-Why Paulette struggles with accepting whether or not she is a financial grownup

-How Paulette became famous, but without the financial rewards following that fame

-The job Paulette had that taught the her most about sales and marketing

-What Paulette did on the day she realized she needed to make some cash- fast

-How Paulette keeps her expenses in check to allow her to pursue her writing career

-Why collecting pay, in a timely manner, is just as important as getting hired

-How Paulette adjusted her pitch to focus less on her needs, and more on her customer needs

-The strategy Paulette used to leverage the contacts she made on one day, into future long term and consistent clients

-The psychological technique Paulette uses when she feels discouraged

In Paulette’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of keeping expenses low when income is unpredictable- and specific strategies to do that.

-How and why pay does not line up with work, and how you can manage cash flow challenges

In Paulette’s money tip you will learn

-How she gets things for free!

-The specific items and services she has received that were given to her and why, along with how she contributes to her community

-Where you can find Buy Nothing groups

-About Paulette’s new book “Welcome to the Writers Life”

-Paulette’s advice: If you are in the arts, you are also in sales

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of keeping overhead low when starting a business, and maintaining cost controls

-How to integrate money making ideas into things you already do and enjoy

Episode Links

Paulette' website: Fuckofffund.com

Follow Paulette- and her bank balances!

Twitter: @PaulettePerhach

Instagram: @PaulettePerhach

Hire Paulette as a writing consultant and much more!! https://hugohouse.org/store/consultant/paulette-perhach/

Pre-order Paulette’s book “Welcome to the Writers Life” !

If you want to be considered for an upcoming listener episode- email us your money story, money lesson and money tip to info@financialgrownup.com

If you want to win a free custom video promo- share and retweet the promos when you see them - and make sure to tag @bobbirebell

---

Transcription

Paulette Perhac:
It's never been too good to hustle. Some days, you got to hustle and yeah, I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of, How to be a Financial Grownup, but you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this. Hey friends, before we get to our awesome guest, Paulette Perhac known for what she calls in our friendly universe, the Foe fund.

Bobbi Rebell:
It'll make sense, trust me. I just want to welcome all of our new listeners to the podcast and also welcome back our regular listeners. We keep your episodes short to fit your schedule, but also to be flexible. So you can binge and hear a few great stories when you have a little more time in your day. If you are enjoying the show, please take a moment to tell a friend about it. Share it on social media, we want to get your help growing the community and we really appreciate it by the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Paulette, as you will hear, I joke with Paulette Perhac that she's not quite a financial grownup, but really are we ever? It's a process and for Paulette, the process has been painful at times. She has received a ton of acclaim for her writing and even has been able to raise her rates a bit, but collecting the cash, that has kept her on the financial edge and forced her to get creative. You're going to like this one. Here is Paulette Perhac. Hey Paulette Perhac you're a financial grownup or at least getting there. Welcome to the podcast.

Paulette Perhac:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we're getting it a little bit giggly, which will make a lot of sense in just a minute when Paulette tells her story. But you are an emerging major writer. You've had pieces all over the place including the piece that got you really famous called the F off Fund and we're going to keep it clean here so no worry. If you are in the car listening with your kids, but Paulette, before we get to your money story, tell us a little bit about this article that sort of blasted you into the universe.

Paulette Perhac:
So we call it in my family around my nephew the fore fund, so-

Bobbi Rebell:
The Fore fund, I like that.

Paulette Perhac:
As I was coming into my 30s and got a great job at a tech company and had for the first time a few thousand in the bank that didn't have a name on it. I was thinking back to some memories that I had of times that I was desperate for a job or couldn't move out because I just couldn't afford to. I realized, "Oh, it would've been so nice if I had, had this money in that bank account." And you don't really think about because humans have this optimism bias.

Paulette Perhac:
If you don't think bad situations you're going to get in. So, I really described a situation in which you do the normal thing. Where you're living paycheck to paycheck and then getting bad situations or if you decide to be someone who can have a fore fund in case you need it and what that would look like. So I described those two scenarios in the fore fund article. I thought it was just another essay and then it blew up and it went all around the world and just this month, both Cosmo and Glamour mentioned it. Two years later, which is crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great, and now that's becoming a whole business, which we're going to circle back to. But I want to hear the money story that you're ready to share with us, and it's so apropos because just moments ago what crosses on my Instagram, but a snapshot of your bank account, which despite all of the success with your fore fund writing and the business that is emerging from that article, which is unbelievable, that this is all happening to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes massive career success and prominence does not always connect to money. So, you found yourself one day with how much money in your bank account would you say?

Paulette Perhac:
So I had about $900 and my rent on my tiny place in Seattle was about to come through at 795.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, because we were just joking about this, your apartment is how big.

Paulette Perhac:
It's 150 square feet.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Just saying not like you're living so large.

Paulette Perhac:
Not living so large. So I was like, "What do I do?" And I had just been feeling like I'm living large because you and I were in the Catskills in New York. I'm going to these parties with like Aaron Lowery and meeting with my editor at the New York Times and having breakfast with another reporter at the New York Times.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just like big media people, big stuff that's happening.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, big stuff is happening. Having meetings with people who are on the Forbes Top 100 most powerful women list. Awesome, right? And we're in talks about future projects, et cetera. So, it's like everything's coming together. Then I landed home and I'm like, I have $100. I don't have any work lined up. I just posted yesterday on Instagram a timeline of something I'm about to get paid for. I pitched that story on February 12th. So that shows you how long it takes to get from pitch to payment?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Paulette Perhac:
And so I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I'm in trouble. What am I going to do?"

Bobbi Rebell:
You need cash immediately.

Paulette Perhac:
I need cash. Yeah. So the panic starts to rise up, right? And I've really realized this year that the panic is not helping you and so you just have to calm down whenever you feel those feelings. I'm like, what will help you feel more powerful? I'm like, you need like an adult lemonade stand, and I just decided a lemonade stand-

Bobbi Rebell:
And by lemonade stand, what do you mean?

Paulette Perhac:
I mean like a personal mini business from which you feel fairly confident you could make some money in the next 24 hours and that's marketing, execution and billing. So, I took the last of my business cards and I printed up a label for the back. Mother's Day was that Sunday, so I'm like, Mother's Day, I'm hustling. So I printed up labels that said mother's Day photos, like quick and easy or quick and fun. Mother's Day photos, 15 minutes, 20 bucks.

Paulette Perhac:
And I took my camera. I looked at like, what are my assets, right? I have a car, I could drive around, I can't do uber, it's from 1996. So I could deliver food.

Bobbi Rebell:
Uber has standards.

Paulette Perhac:
Uber has standards, I do not. A to B, that's my standard. So I looked at my other asset, which is this really nice camera that I bought as an investment in my writing, in travel writing business. So I just went around and hustled all day, Mother's Day. I think I walked six miles. I ran out of business cards, but I-

Bobbi Rebell:
What was your pitch? Tell us your pitch.

Paulette Perhac:
My pitch. I started by being like, "Hi, I'm a local writer and a photographer," and people were just like, "ugh." So, I realize I'm talking about myself. Nope, so it evolves over the day to focus on the customer and I just said, "Hi, happy mother's Day," because no one's like, "Go away if you say Happy Mother's Day." I said, "Happy Mother's day, if you guys want a nice photo, I'm doing $20 portraits today." So it was a really fun day overall.

Paulette Perhac:
I felt empowered. I felt like I was taking control and then I got some follow up clients actually, I'm rewriting one of the groups of women. One of them was from San Francisco. She's a realtor from San Francisco. We got to talking. They were great, I gave them a little bit of extra time just because it was fun, and she is hiring me to rewrite her bio for 300 bucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so awesome. That's so awesome. Wait, so how much did you make that day and how much did you make from that day going forward?

Paulette Perhac:
So my supplies were 12, and then I had to get more cards printed, which was like 33. So I was like, "Oh my gosh." So after taking those out, I only made $85 that day, which is not a ton, it's not nothing. What I realized was that I now have given my card out to a bunch of people who know I'm a photographer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Paulette Perhac:
One woman was pregnant, she asked me if I do maternity photos, and then next time what I'll do is just have an A frame sign and stay in one place. Because I think that, that will be more successful, less hustling work for me. I laid down at the end of that day in the park after giving out all my cards, and I was just pooped. I felt really good. I felt like the best kind of exhausted.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you did something.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, I did something.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did something, like you had a problem, and you did something proactive to solve it instead of just kind of living in your panic about money.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, and I think self-pity is really dangerous, especially if you work in the arts, because you have to remember like I chose this life, what am I going to do about it? Sitting there and just being like, "Wheh, I don't get paid on time. Wheh, it's hard to be a writer." Not saying I never sit there, but when I'm in that space I realize that it's dangerous.

Bobbi Rebell:
Talk about the lessons that you would share with our listeners. What's the takeaway here?

Paulette Perhac:
So I think the takeaway is knowing that you don't owe a whole lot. So for me low overhead is really important. You know, it's just nice to know that my rent including utilities, is 795, I almost never feel like, "Oh I can't pay that." I also have a book coming out in August, so that's a lot of unpaid marketing work for the book.

Paulette Perhac:
So I think having that plan, like knowing like what would I do today if I needed money and just knowing, so like for example, I'm going to go to a music festival over Memorial Day and I'm going to do it again, taking music festival portraits there. I'm really excited about that, and I think it's going to get better and better, and I'm going to make more and more every time I need to do that.

Paulette Perhac:
And I think eventually I won't need to do it anymore, but it's never been too good to hustle too. Some days you got to hustle, and yeah I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Paulette, tell us about your money tip.

Paulette Perhac:
So my favorite secret money tip is to join a buy nothing group, which are these groups that are popping up that kind of celebrate trading, and giving and, just offering if you have anything. And so I just got a Le Creuset casserole dish on it yesterday. I got a vacuum last week, and then when I moved into my tiny place, and I had a ton of stuff to give away, I gave away a bunch of stuff. I just got a haircut this morning on the buy nothing group at a place that usually probably costs 100 bucks for a haircut.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, how do they make sure that people don't come on and just take, take, take.

Paulette Perhac:
You could just take, take, take. I haven't seen that problem yet. You know, I think people are willing to give. It's things that they would be giving away anyway, but I have found that the more that I get from it, the more I want to give. And people have offered financial advice, people have offered instruments, and it's just kind of this nice community, especially if you live in a big city, it's a very small area. So now I kind of know my neighbors more.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how do you find these groups?

Paulette Perhac:
So I would google buy nothing, mine is the Facebook group.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there criteria to get in, or they just let anyone in? How is it? It sounds too good to be true.

Paulette Perhac:
I know, right? Well, I think the thing is I've been in both situations where the things that people have given me have helped me so much to get new furniture or whatever. And so then once I got from the group giving was a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're also so much part of the writer's community. You spend so much of your time and energy giving back to other writers and supporting writers. Tell us about your book that's coming out soon. It's happening.

Paulette Perhac:
So on August 15th, my book, Welcome to the Writer's life is coming out, which is everything I've learned about the writing business, the writing craft and the writing life from being in a writing community. So it's a very crowd sourced book and very much wanting to give back what I've gained from living in a creative community. And it's like freshman orientation for new writers, and a lot of people have benefited from it even if they do business writing or side writing. You don't have to be a full time writer, you just have to want to get joy out of the act of writing.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what have you learned in your years about the business of writing? In other words, you talk about how hard it is to get paid.

Paulette Perhac:
I think if you're in the arts, you are also in sales, which we don't want to say out loud, but you have your leads, you have to bring your value prop, like you have to sell your stuff, and consider yourself a business. I wish that I had said I'm starting a freelance business, rather than I'm going freelance because that's what it is. So you're not ready for operations and marketing and sales and you just get sledge hammered by the reality of like, "Oh I got to go sell today," which is like what you have to do.

Paulette Perhac:
So I've been in it like two years full-time, and I'm just now like, I have a whole share point for my writing business. I'm getting serious because I don't want to fail.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Miss Paulette, how can people find you and follow you and hire you most importantly?

Paulette Perhac:
Yes so send money to ... No. I'm on Twitter @Pauletteperhac. My website is fuckofffund spelled out, .com, so fuckofffund.com, and I'm on Instagram @PauletteJperhac where you can see my bank balances. Just google me and you'll find me, and I have a lot of different projects. Mostly I want to bring people who want to live creative lives. I want to help them make the creative life happen while I figure it out. That's really the thing is like I'm someone who's traditionally bad with money.

Paulette Perhac:
I'm getting better with money and want to live that creative life. I love my life. I love my day to day that this is my life and I want to make it work. So I want to help other people do it too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we love watching your star rise, so thank you so much.

Paulette Perhac:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
There is so much we can all learn from Paulette. I hope you enjoyed that interview. Financial Grownup tip number one. When you are running a business or just the business of your life, keep your overhead low. Paulette lives in a very expensive city, but she makes it work by keeping those costs down and living anything but large. Her apartment, as she mentioned, is a 150 square feet. That's a closet to some people, some very fortunate people, but still some people.

Bobbi Rebell:
She also literally does not pay for things. She's in a buy nothing group. So maybe find a buy nothing group near you. What a great tip. Financial Grownup tip number two, integrate your hustle into things you're already doing. Paulette loves to go to concerts and festivals, so she brings her camera and her business cards and you know what? She makes money even while living her life. Thanks Paulette. We have our first listener episode coming up very soon in the month of June.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us at info@financialgrownup and tell us what the story is and what your everyday money tip would be if you were to be chosen. Thank you for being part of our Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating or review. And of course hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Follow me on Twitter @Bobbirebell, on Instagram @Bobbirebell1, and by the way, thanks for the great feedback on our promo videos. If you would like one for you or for your business, share the video when you see them. We'll be making one for whoever shares the most between now and July, 1st. You could even see them by the way, on our new YouTube channel. Just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, and you will find it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, soon after we taped Paulette's interview, she did finally get paid by her client, so a happy ending there. A quick reminder, Paulette's book, Welcome to the Writer's Life is available for pre order, so go get it. I think it's safe to say her story successfully brought us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

The Opposite of Spoiled author Ron Lieber dishes on the underground network he tapped into as a teen to ace the financial aid game- and gives a sneak peak into his next book “What to Pay for College".Plus Ron’s secret to getting hot tickets at below market prices- Including the Cubs.

In Ron’s money story you will learn:

-How Ron got the inside track on how to maximize financial aid for college

-How much Ron took out in loans for school and how long it took to pay it back

-Ron’s theory on how grownup’s can help cut through the information overload and  get to the important information

-Insight into how Ron researches his columns for the NYTimes

-The significance of Ron’s mom taking him to meet with "the guy”

In Ron’s money lesson you will learn:

-Ron’s advice on how to learn about the options to pay for college now

-The one thing you should not do that could hurt your ability to get the maximum financial aid

-Why financial aid applications have become so complicated over time

-Specific resources from Ron to learn more about how to pay for college, before his book comes out

In Ron’s money tip you will learn:

-About his love of experiences like concerts and baseball games

-How he is able to get discount tickets to events

-The specific strategy, including the timeline, that Ron uses to get the best prices on tickets

-The best ticket score Ron ever got, and why he was so excited about the show!

In My Take you will learn:

-How I went on a “Mentor Tour” a few years ago, before launching the Financial Grownup brand

-Why I agree with Ron, that consulting people who know more about something that you do, can be the best way to get an edge on a new venture, whether it is college, or launching a business. 

-The value add of an in-person conversation compared to doing internet research

-The importance of making children aware of the costs of higher education, whether or not they pay for part or all of it. 

EPISODE LINKS

Ron Lieber’s website: http://ronlieber.com

Ron’s NY Times Columns: NYTimes.com/Lieber

Get Ron’s book The Opposite of Spoiled

Learn more about Ron’s upcoming book “What to pay for college”

Resources recommended by Ron Lieber

Paying for College without going Broke by Kal Cheney

SavingforCollege.com

Follow Ron!!

Twitter @RonLieber

Instagram @ronlieber

Facebook.com/RonLieberAuthor

 

 StubHub is where Ron goes to get last minute discount tickets!

---

Transcription

Ron Lieber:
Somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to financial grown up with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup and you know what being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's OK. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So Ron Lieber, famous, very famous New York Time's money columnist, super nice guy, also the author of the upcoming book What to Pay for College, the best seller The Opposite of Spoiled. He knew a guy. As he describes it it was basically an underground financial aid information network. This really happened. Before we get to Ron's unbelievable story, can't believe this really happened, I do want to welcome new listeners. And of course welcome back those who are returning. The show's been growing and I'm so happy you guys are spreading the word. So thank you in advance for any more spreading the word that you do. Please tell friends about Financial Grownup if you're enjoying it. I'm also happy that you guys are enjoying the video promos that we do for each episode. A reminder if you want one for you or your business we are having a little competition. Whenever you see the video in social media, share it. Whoever shares it the most between now and July 1st I will make a customized video just for you. So a little experimental competition we're having here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And if you have a great money story, you want to be on the show, we want to hear from you. E-mail us at info at financialgrownup.com, tell us what your money story would be and what your everyday money tip would be and maybe you'll be selected to be featured on the program. We have our first listener episode coming up soon. Now to Ron Lieber. My first exposure to his writing came when I read his bestselling book The Opposite of Spoiled, Raising Kids Who Are Grounded, Generous and Smart About Money. And yes I have used his strategies in my own home. I am also now an avid fan of his New York Times column, Your Money. In it Ron sheds light on issues that touch so many of us and with real solid reporting behind it. So that's something as a journalist I really value and appreciate. He's really good at what he does and as a parent I can't wait to read his upcoming book What to Pay for College. An entirely new guide to the biggest financial decision your family will ever make. But first you get to hear this story about a guy. Here is Ron lever.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Ron Lieber, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Ron Lieber:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're so excited to have you. You are the author of one of my favorite books, The Opposite of Spoiled which has set the standard for so many families including my own. We have our three save/spend/give jars in our house for my 10 year old. So thank you for that. And I know you have a new project.

Ron Lieber:
Yes I'm working on a book right now called What To Pay For College which is all about when if ever it is worth paying more than whatever your flagship state university costs for a private college or an out of state public university or something else entirely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Something we all need to be thinking about. What I want to hear for your money story though is about your experience when you were younger visiting the financial aid consultant with your mom when you were a senior in high school. Tell us what happened.

Ron Lieber:
So there I was. 1988. Chicago, Illinois. Already a scholarship kid at the K to 12 private school I attended back then. We didn't know very much about financial aid, somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see it in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Ron Lieber:
[crosstalk 00:04:26] God forsaken FAFSA form. Yeah, he knew exactly what he was talking about. I got into college at Amherst early decision, got a fantastic financial aid package and graduated with under $10,000 in student loan debt which wasn't all that much at the time and got it paid off in 10 years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, but we got to go back Ron. So what are some of the secrets that he told you?

Ron Lieber:
It was a reminder that there is always some financial grownup out there in the world who has the information that you seek and quite often if you just had the guts to pick up the phone or show up in their office maybe with a little bit of cash on the barrel that person will tell you the secrets of whatever code you're trying to crack, whatever system you're trying to beat. There is a grownup out there somewhere who can help you. And you know every time I go out and write a column for The Times I'm looking for that one financial grownup who has the answer and they're always out there somewhere.

Ron Lieber:
But the second thing and maybe the most important thing here came from the fact that my mother took me there in the first place. She could have left me at home. She might have felt anxiety about the situation we were in or ashamed that we were going to have to go hat in hand to all these schools you know asking for money. But she felt like I at the age of 17 ought to have a front row seat for that process because it was going to be my education and my debt. And I tried to remember that when I'm tempted to shield my older daughter who's now 12 from whatever financial dilemma that my family is facing. She's old enough to hear a fair bit of this and I want her to understand.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever circled back to your mom and asked her why she took you in and what was going on in her mind at that time?

Ron Lieber:
You know I did a couple of years ago as I started thinking about this guy again. I actually tracked him down on the plains of Colorado where he's gone to retire from financial aid. And he remembered me and we chatted about it and he said the thing that always surprised him was when the parents came without the kid. So you know he gave my mom great credit. And you know my mom to her credit to this day you know doesn't shield me from you know any financial dilemma she's facing.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did she find this guy?

Ron Lieber:
The people at my private high school in Chicago just did not know a ton about financial aid and how it worked. But they said there's this guy. And you know it was literally a slip of paper with the guy's phone number on it, I'm not even sure there was a name and you know I just dialed the suburban Chicago area code and he picks up and he said yeah you know come to this address next Tuesday and bring me my money and we'll talk. And it was like a financial aid underground.

Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners now in 2018, what is the lesson from that? What's the takeaway?

Ron Lieber:
I think you always have to turn over every rock and talk to every person who might have information that can help you. Don't be ashamed of the fact that you don't understand. Every single last one of these financial systems that we encounter in our daily life is complex. Often they are complex by design. Sometimes they're complex by accident right. In the case of the financial aid industry loan systems, you know layers of people over the decades have layered you know different levels of complexity onto this. All in the hope that they can help some or another student who might be disadvantaged by the last layer that was laid on right. What we end up with is you know eight student loan programs and nine different income driven repayment plans and you know two different ways the financial aid is calculated at most colleges and it's really confusing so ask for help, you know express your ignorance and demand information. Right. I mean if you're approaching a system that has a sticker price of over $300,000 now at the most expensive selective colleges. You have a right to demand more information and to get some answers so don't be sheepish about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there specific resources that you would recommend?

Ron Lieber:
Well here's the problem right and the reason I'm working on What to Pay for College is that I don't actually believe that the perfect resource exists. But if you're looking for like nuts and bolts of financial aid I really like Cal Cheney's book Paying for College Without Going Broke. It's about the best book that I've seen about the financial aid system. And if you're thinking about saving for college and how to do that the book that the folks at savingforcollege.com published is quite good if you want to know about the ins and outs of 529 plans and all of the various complexities there and there are a fair number.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right well this is why we need your book. I'm going to hear more about your book in a second but I want to just get to your money tip because we talked before we started recording and you apparently have a concert ticket problem. And I think a lot of people can relate to this, especially coming into the summer, it's time we all like to go see our favorite artist. Tell us Ron.

Ron Lieber:
I'm constantly wrestling with you know how much should I spend for the possibility of you know close up literally experience that's going to make me happy. I do often snipe my way through StubHub. So instead of buying tickets you know weeks or even months ahead of time if it's something where I'm pretty sure there's still going to be a lot of tickets at the end I will wait and I will wait and I will wait until sometimes less than an hour before showtime or before play ball. You know and buy my tickets as I watch the prices fall in ten minute increments, you know every five minutes. You know that was how I saw Phish on New Year's Eve a couple of years ago for not very much at all. Of course there's always some risk involved that all the tickets will disappear. But you can watch and see. You know are there dozens left, hundreds or thousands. Right. Are the tickets disappearing quickly or not. You know you can keep track, make a little spreadsheet for yourself as you watch as the date or the hour approaches. You know but what I often see with concerts is that you know the price will start falling relatively quickly you know within a couple hours of showtime. You know then you just grab the point at which you feel comfortable paying the price. And at that point you can generally download the tickets instantly.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what's been your best score?

Ron Lieber:
I think the best score was probably those Phish tickets on New Year's Eve. Although whenever the Cubs come to town to play the Mets as they are doing in a week or so here in New York City I'll often use this method as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. So you are actually on a break from your full time job at the New York Times because you're working on your new project. Tell us more about that.

Ron Lieber:
Sure. So the book is called What To Pay For College, it will be out sometime in 2020. No pre-orders yet. You know for anybody who's interested in kind of where I'm heading with it you know you can find hints of it in the columns that I've written for The Times about higher education. You know I read a handful each year and my archive is at nytimes.com/lieber and the book questions I'm asking are born of really a half decade of observation where without anyone really noticing the rack rate at the most expensive private schools top $300,000 for four years, flagship state universities now regularly cost $100,000 dollars or more for four years. You've got a $200,000 difference between those two things. That's per child after taxes. Almost nobody can save that much money. This is insane.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. It is insane.

Ron Lieber:
Yeah so the question then becomes what if anything are you actually getting for that $200? And if you go asking those questions at the more expensive colleges they will look at you cross-eyed and if you ask for data to prove that the extra $200,000 is worth it and there are a lot of different ways to potentially define worth, which I'm exploring in my reporting, if you just ask that right, well why do you think it's worth it and show me some numbers right. Here we are in the era of big data where you can get a ton of information about your social plan or about your car or about the house you want to buy, you can just round in data on all that stuff. There is almost no data about what happens to you when you're at college and what happens to you afterwards. And it is my suspicion that the colleges actually like it that way because in the absence of data we make decisions on the basis of snobbery. Private is better than public.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true.

Ron Lieber:
Right, you know ivy covered walls are better than you know concrete 1970s Britos architecture. Right. So I'm going down all these rows and asking all of the impertinent questions and I'm going to have a lot to say about it very soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right well I'm hoping you can hook me up with a preview sometime soon because I will need to read that. I've got kids in college so I am very excited about this new project. Where can people find you and learn more about what you're writing in the meantime?

Ron Lieber:
Sure. Www.ronlieber.com, there's a big fat contact button for anybody who has a story to share about how they and their family decided what they should pay for college.

Bobbi Rebell:
And on social media?

Ron Lieber:
@RonLieber all over the place, you know on Twitter, on Instagram and the Facebook community that I run on parenting and money is at Facebook.com, Ron Lieber author.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome, thank you so much Ron. This has been amazing.

Ron Lieber:
It was a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Ron's sincerity is contagious and his book is definitely needed. As he mentioned he wants to hear from all of you about your experiences. So share yours with him, as he said all the info is at his Web site, ronlieber.com. Here's my take on what Ron shared with us. Financial grownup tip number one. As Ron said, there is a grownup there who can help you. Don't be afraid to reach out to older and/or more experienced people for help. Yes, the internet does have a lot of information but not always context. Sometimes just getting the scoop from a person, someone, who's got the dirt on whatever you need to know can be really meaningful, they can cut through a lot of the junk out there. Ask someone, call someone you know, ask someone who they would recommend that you talk to, set a meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
When I was figuring out what I wanted to do after years of being a television anchor I went on what I jokingly called a mentor tour, setting up face to face meetings with anyone I admired who would generously give me their time and asking them who else I should talk to. And trust me mo internet research can take the place of the kind of information download that you can get from sitting face to face with somebody and asking them what they think, what their experience has been and what they think you should do. People are generous so take advantage of that. That will be good.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Financial grownup tip number two. Ron points out the significance of the fact that his mom took him with her to meet the guy. Ron learned that financial aid wasn't going to just appear. He knew that he was a stakeholder in the process and he appreciated the money that much more. We all want to shield our kids from the reality of our financial fragility but if we can get past our egos we do them a service by keeping them in the loop and making them aware of what it really takes to pay for college.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for spending part of your day with us. We make these podcasts relatively short to fit into your busy schedule but also so you can listen to a few in a row when it makes sense like during your commute, if you're watching your kids do an activity or just chilling out and you want to listen to a little bit more. You can listen to three or four at a time, make 45 minutes, listen to four, it could be an hour. Whatever works for you. The goal is to make it fit in with what you're doing and fit your life. If you enjoy the show please help us grow. We need you. Tell a friend, write a review on Apple Podcasts and follow us on social media. I am @BobbiRebell on Twitter, BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. Ron's new book can't come soon enough but I'm glad he gave us a sneak peek. And by the way also a great strategy for discount tickets so thanks Ron for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

After an early divorce set Kayla Sloan on an emotional spending binge and into debt, she discovered she could help herself, by working behind the scenes helping a growing market of entrepreneurs- and then becoming one herself.  

In Kayla’s money story you will learn:

-How her marriage, at age 19, had on her financial behavior

-The way Kayla’s desire to spend, contrasted with her husband’s push to save money, and the conflicts that resulted from those differences. 

-Kayla’s emotional spending after the marriage ended after less than a year

-How Kayla managed the cash flow challenges once she was divorced

-The moment she realized she had hit rock bottom, with $10,000 in credit card debt and just $3 in her banking account

-How her total debt moved into six figures by age 21

-The solution she found, that has morphed into a successful entrepreneurial venture

-What virtual assistants do, and how entrepreneurs can tap into that resource

In Kayla’s lesson you will learn:

-How simply filling up her time with an exciting new venture was enough of a distraction to stop the emotional spending

-How Kayla came up with specific ideas for slashing her debt, and what were the most effective techniques

-Why Kayla also prioritized increasing her income, so she would still be able to enjoy responsible spending

In Kayla’s money tip you will learn:

-Why you should not save your fancy stuff (if you have it) for special occasions

-How she made the most of all the fancy wedding presents she did not use during her marriage, including appliances

-How to avoid buying new things, when you already have things in your home that can get the job done, even if they are not what is conventionally expected

-How to tell if you need a virtual assistant, and how to get yourself ready to onboard a VA. 

In My Take you will learn:

-How to learn the value of your time, and decide if you should outsource aspects of your business

-Where to get fancy stuff to use if you did not get it as a gift for a wedding or special occassion like Kayla. 

Episode links:

kaylasloan.com

Twitter @kaylarsloan

Instagram @kaylarsloan

Facebook @krsloan

Kayla's course on How to be a Virtual Assistant and Make $10k a Month

You can buy vintage dinnerware, crystal, silver and other collectables at places like Replacements.com, Chairish.com and even TheRealReal.com

  

After an early divorce set Kayla Sloan on an emotional spending binge and into debt, she discovered she could help herself, by working behind the scenes helping a growing market of entrepreneurs- and then becoming one herself. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn how you can tell when you need a virtual assistant. #Entrepreneur #VirtualAssistant #Debt

---

Transcription

Announcer:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Kayla Sloan:
I went into total rebellion mode. I adopted a pet kitten. I went to the mall during every spare moment I had when I wasn't working or in class, and racked up about $10,000 in credit card debt and had only about $3 in my bank account.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
What to know more about how those super successful entrepreneurs pull off their busy schedules? Well, there's usually someone called a virtual assistant behind the scenes keeping everything going. Stay tuned to learn more about how our guest tapped into that need to pull herself out of an emotional spending cycle.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, a couple of announcements. We are having a little competition here. It is about the video promos that you see on social media letting everyone know about the episodes. We've gotten amazing feedback about them and people asking how can they get one. So if you want one for your business or just for yourself, share them, retweet them, repost them between now and July 1st. Whoever does it the most, we will declare you the winner and we will make you a promo for your business or just for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, we want to welcome the new listeners here and thank returning listeners. So glad you are joining us. We keep the podcast short, usually around 15 minutes. The idea is that we're all really busy and sometimes we only have little bursts where we can listen to a podcast, maybe we're running a quick errand, so we want to make it easy for you. And then, of course, if you have more time -- if you commute or you're running around town and want to listen to podcasts while you're doing other things throughout the day -- you can binge listen to three, four, five episodes for an hour or so and enjoy it that way. So whatever works for you, we're all about being flexible and fitting into your lifestyle.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our fantastic guest. She is tapping into a growing market need, entrepreneurs who need just the right amount of help but without the commitment of hiring someone -- usually in-person, full-time, where they have to get office space for and so on -- because the growing class of often solo entrepreneurs just need a little help sometimes for a project, sometimes a little longer. Kayla Sloan discovered she had a unique talent for tapping into this demand when she found herself with just $3 in her bank account and growing pile of debt, and needed to find a way out. Here is Kayla Sloan. Hey, Kayla Sloan. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kayla Sloan:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am excited to have you on because you have tapped into a niche that is so cool in this ever-emerging gig economy because you help entrepreneurs.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes, I am a consultant in the virtual assistant space, and not only do I train people who want to become virtual assistants, but I also work with business owners who are in need of a virtual assistant. So I help them identify what they can outsource so they can up-level their businesses and find a great virtual assistant that can help them get there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Genius. All right, so let's talk about your money story. Sadly, it is something so many of us can relate to, and that is going through things like a divorce, broken relationships, and the financial impact that they can have. In your case, you had $3 in the bank. You basically started emotionally shopping, but that was in reaction to what was going on in the marriage. Tell us more.

Kayla Sloan:
So this story really started when I was about 19-years old. I got married very young and went off to college. I was attending school and he was working, so I wasn't really earning very much money at that time. I had a student internship that paid about $10 an hour is all. And so since he was earning the majority of the money, it really felt like I needed to ask permission whenever I wanted to spend money on anything. Since he was a saver and I was a spender, there was always a lot of conflict around money in our relationship. At the time, I really felt as if I couldn't purchase anything without asking permission, which is never a fun feeling, especially if you are a spender. So fast forward a few months and we actually ended up getting divorced.

Bobbi Rebell:
The marriage was less than a year, right?

Kayla Sloan:
Yes, just under a year. And we had no kids or property to split up, thank goodness, because that would have made it much more difficult I'm sure. I've talked to a lot of friends who've been in that situation. Anyway, we split up and luckily I was able to take the assets with me that I had brought into the marriage; it's just my vehicle, household belongings, things like that. And even my retirement account was intact.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this is interesting. So you were actually in okay financial shape when the marriage actually split up.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. I really didn't end up that bad off. I was kind of struggling to pay the bills with an immediate cashflow because of only working part-time and suddenly having to pay the rent by myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
But then the trouble came with this emotional shopping, which was really ... This is interesting. It was reactive to the fact that he was so controlling with your finances during the marriage, so then you went the other way.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes, I went the absolute other way. I went into total rebellion mode. I adopted a pet kitten. I went to the mall during every spare moment I had when I wasn't working or in class, and racked up about $10,000 in credit card debt and had only about $3 in my bank account.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my goodness. And of course, then comes graduation time and there's even more debt, correct?

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. Graduation brings on more debt for most people. As you and I both know, student loans are a huge problem. I was lucky in only having about $8,000 of student loans when I graduated, making a total of $18,000. But then I turned right around at age 21, right after graduating, and bought a house for $120,000, so I really was feeling that financial pinch after I graduated.

Bobbi Rebell:
So total debt ... I'm trying to do the math here. $140,000?

Kayla Sloan:
Yeah, pretty close. Pretty close.

Bobbi Rebell:
At age 21, with income of about 10 bucks an hour still?

Kayla Sloan:
At that time, I did land a full-time job after graduation, so my take home salary was probably about $25,000 plus benefits.

Bobbi Rebell:
What I like about this story is that you turned things around basically by starting to think like an entrepreneur. So tell us, fill us in on the rest of what happened.

Kayla Sloan:
Yeah. So I started looking for ways to earn extra income and stumbled upon the world of freelance writing and virtual assistant work. And virtual assistants are basically people who work behind the scenes and help entrepreneurs grow and maintain their businesses. And so I started doing this because I love organizing things and helping people create systems, and really working through some of those problems that entrepreneurs typically struggle with. And after doing it on the side for about 12 months, I was earning the same amount from my part-time business as I was making at my full-time job. So I actually quit my job.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. And now you are growing that into a full-blown consulting firm, which is amazing and something that so many entrepreneurs really need these days.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. I am so excited about this. So I started training people who wanted to be virtual assistants, but then I realized there was a need on the other side for connecting entrepreneurs with those virtual assistants. I find that a lot of business owners struggle with finding someone they can trust, someone who's already trained and knows how to step in and get to work, and so that's where I try to fill that void.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about what the lesson is for our listeners from this story because you basically were able to stop the emotional spending and then turn that into your motivation to start your own business and basically control your income flow. So what is the lesson for our listeners? And especially, how do you stop that emotional shopping?

Kayla Sloan:
Oh my gosh, stopping the emotional shopping can be so, so hard. But for me it was really about finding something else to fill up my free time, which ended up being my business.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it all came together. So for listeners, what can they do? After shopping, shopping, shopping, how do you come up with something? Do you have a technique? Is it just surfing the internet? What was it that got you this idea?

Kayla Sloan:
Yeah. My first ideas did come from surfing the internet. I did some of those classic things like cutting up the credit cards and putting the rest on ice and all of those kinds of things. And they sound crazy, but they work.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you did those things, and then you just decided that you had to up your income?

Kayla Sloan:
You know, you can only be so frugal. There's only so many things you can cut from your budget, especially if you start to feel deprived. And as a spender, I liked to spend money. I liked my lifestyle, so I decided that I also had to find a way to increase my income because I didn't want to cut anything else from my budget.

Bobbi Rebell:
So your money tip has to do actually with kind of a splurge with things that you already have, which actually is very relatable for many people who get divorced and have a lot of wedding presents that maybe are still unopened, not that I would know anything about that kind of thing. But a lot of times, we get fancy stuff for our weddings or graduations or all kinds of special occasions, and then it just sits there because there's never an occasion that's good enough for this stuff.

Kayla Sloan:
Exactly. That's exactly what I found was, I was going through my divorce, I had all these beautiful that I had received for my wedding, and since I was super broke I didn't have any money to spend. So my tip and the way I that I decided to treat myself, rather than spending is that I started using things I already had. So instead of saving my nice dishes that I got for my wedding and using cheap ones every day, I decided I was going to just use the pretty ones. They make me feel happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
And why not? We're all so busy saving for these magical events that are going to happen, and then we don't ever use all this stuff that we have.

Kayla Sloan:
Exactly. And it just sits there and collects dust, and there's no point in that.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what are some other examples of things that you used that people can relate to?

Kayla Sloan:
I said my nice dishes, and then I also used all of those kitchen appliances that never get brought out. And I decided I was going to make some of my favorite meals instead of saving them for a special occasion or saving them when I had guests over and things like that. I'm a big foodie, so those are probably two of the biggest things for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me ask you just quickly, how do people know if they need a virtual assistant? Because I think that's something that confuses people, is where is the tipping point where you're at the point where you need somebody, and are there certain things to look for?

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. So the first sign that you need a virtual assistant is that things start slipping through the cracks. If you find yourself as an entrepreneur or business owner with more things to do than time to do them, then you definitely need to bring someone on. For entrepreneurs, it can be difficult because you don't want to bring someone on and get stuck paying them if you have busy seasons and slow seasons, so a virtual assistant can really help fill that void because you can kind of pay as you go; pay for a certain number of hours per month, and then if you have extra work, you can buy some more. So it's a lot easier than hiring an employee for a set number of hours no matter what.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what are some specific things that people can outsource to a VA?

Kayla Sloan:
A lot of people start with social media because they find that social media is something that takes up a lot of their time and can easily be outsourced to a virtual assistant. I know a lot of other things are blog post research; sometimes they'll bring on someone to do outlines and things like that. And then also a lot of people who have podcasts use virtual assistants, hint hint.

Bobbi Rebell:
For what kinds of things?

Kayla Sloan:
They will help with show note creation, transcription. They can help with, again, social media when it comes to your podcast as well, so a lot of different things.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what do VAs typically run? What's the range that people would expect to pay?

Kayla Sloan:
For a U.S.-based virtual assistant -- which I think is important to make that clarification -- you're probably going to be looking at as little as $15, but probably as much as $40 or more if you have someone who's very experienced.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about where people can find you and the kind of things that you are doing, and how people can use your services.

Kayla Sloan:
Sure. My main website is at kaylasloan.com, and that is where you can find out more information about how to work with me to get connected with a virtual assistant. Or if you're wanting to be a virtual assistant, we can connect there as well. And I'm also all over social media.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your handles?

Kayla Sloan:
Are all the same: @kayla-r-sloan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kayla R. Sloan, very important. Well, thank you so much, Kayla Sloan. This has been absolutely wonderful, and congratulations on your growing business.

Kayla Sloan:
Thank you so much. I hope you have a great day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so here's my take. I love what Kayla is doing for entrepreneurs and for the virtual assistants that are so important to their success. Financial Grownup tip number one: consider outsourcing. Whether or not you are an entrepreneur, think about the value of your time. If you're running a business, maybe you're running a household, consider the best use of your time. Outsourcing may be hiring a babysitter if you're a parent trying to grow a business from home, or if you're an entrepreneur trying to do everything. Sometimes you're better off doubling down on your strength, say sales, or anything that directly has to do with your clients, and it may make sense to have a VA do things that are more administrative in nature, like the billing. Weigh the cost. The great thing about a VA is that you can often hire them on a project basis, so you're not locked in the way you would be if you hired a full-time assistant.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: I love Kayla's money tip to use what you have, even if it's super fancy. But here's my tip if you don't have all that fancy stuff but want to have the fancy stuff and maybe don't have the budget or want to spend the money to go and buy it in the store. You see all that fancy wedding gifts like China and crystal, well a lot of people don't really want it, or they inherited it and they want to sell it, they get rid of it, they just don't use it. So you can often get great stuff, fancy stuff, far less than the everyday stuff if you know where to look. Who doesn't like to feel fancy, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
So some sites to check out: Replacements.com -- they sell vintage and current dinnerware, crystal, silver, and other collectables. Also take a look at Chairish, like sitting on a chair, chairish.com. You can find vintage dinnerware at really amazing prices. They sell a ton of other stuff, including chairs, but also other furniture and vintage stuff; really nice stuff. I spotted a vintage Hermes dinner plate set that retailed for $2,000 and it was down to just 950 bucks. The Real Real, which is known for selling designer handbags and clothing, they also -- a lot of people don't realize this -- they also have things like dishes and serving stuff; high-end names like George Jensen, Tiffany, Vernadeau, all at massive discounts. So check those out if you like the higher end stuff instead of going for the everyday stuff that you may see in, whatever, the mall stores. I don't want to name names, but the everyday stores. You guys know what I'm talking about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for being part of our growing Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating and even a review on Apple podcasts. I know it seems like it's going to be really difficult, but it only takes a couple of minutes and it is really appreciated, and makes a big difference in helping other people discover the show. And of course, hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any upcoming episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1; you can also DM me there. And then don't forget, if you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show, join the competition. Share the videos when you see them. You can even see them now on the YouTube channel that we have set up, so just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, that channel on YouTube, and you can see the promos there and check them out that way.

Bobbi Rebell:
We have our first listener episode coming up in June. If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us info@financialgrownup.com. Tell us what money story you would share, and what everyday money tip you would like to share with our audience, and we will be in touch if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to Kayla Sloan for sharing her story. We'll be watching how her business grows along with all the entrepreneurs that she is working with. So thank you, Kayla, for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownup.

Announcer:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

When Brandless Co-Founder and CEO Tina Sharkey turned 30, she  didn’t want a birthday party- she just wanted the cake. Specifically a photograph of a walking birthday cake with legs that was by artist Laurie Simmons. Little did she know the significant role that work would play in her life. 

In Tina’s money story you will learn: 

-How Tina was able to re-direct her mom's budget for a birthday party to a work of art she had been eyeing

-Why the art meant so much to Tina

-The reason art is both a passion and an investment for Tina

-How she applies her art-buying philosophy to her entrepreneurial ventures

-What inspired Tina to start collecting art as a teenager

-How the art now has multi-generational significance

In Tina’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of commemorating milestones in life

-Creative ways to marking important moments including crowdsourcing

-Why she believes investing in significant items will have long term impact

In Tina’s money tip you will learn:

-Her grandmothers strategy for getting discounts, when things are not on sale

-The specific things tina’s grandmother would say

-Tina’s philosophy of never being afraid to ask

-How to get online discounts, even when you are in a store

-The new way Brandless is offering free credits to it’s consumers

In my take you will learn:

-Techniques to re-direct sincere, well intentioned gifts that miss the mark just like Tina did

-What to do if you are giving a gift and don’t know what to get someone

-The value of giving a memorable gift that will hold the test of time

-Why we should re-think the value of the brands we buy

EPISODE LINKS:

Learn more about Brandless on their website: Brandless.com

Follow Tina and Brandless!

Instagram: @tinasharkey @brandlesslife

Twitter @Tinasharkey @brandless

Facebook: Tina Sharkey  Brandlesslife

 

Here is a link to the fabulous birthday cake photo Tina bought!

Learn more about Laurie Simmons http://www.lauriesimmons.net/

As Tina mentioned, her art hangs at museums including Moma

 

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell. The following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money abroad built by the brands behind Skype, TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad, so don't get stung by a bad exchange rate or sneaky fees, join the 2 million people who are already saving with TransferWise. Test it out for free at TransferWise.com/podcast, or download the app, it is the wise way to send money.

Tina Sharkey:
That piece of art has since appreciated tremendously in value, probably 100 times, in fact, I even found out that that photograph is now hanging in MoMA. All the art that I've ever bought have been appreciated tremendously in value, and I've only bought things that I thought were real investment pieces.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Brandless CEO Tina Sharkey talking about a piece of art that has been very meaningful in her life and not just because its financial value has literally skyrocketed as in it's in museums, people. But first some quick housekeeping notes before we get to Tina's interview. First, welcome if you're joining us for the first time, and welcome back if you are returning. If you enjoy this show, please share with someone in your life that you think would also enjoy the podcast. For those of you who have spotted our video promos, want to win a custom one? Pretty easy. We are having a little experimental competition from now until July 1st, if you see them, share them on social media, share on Facebook, retweet, repost, all that good stuff. The winner of the competition will get a free custom video that could be for your business, for yourself. We're going to look at who is the most active in sharing those videos.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, this a very special episode, we are at episode 50, time flies. I'm so excited about this guest for this milestone show. Tina Sharkey, she heads up one of the most buzzed about brands out there, Brandless. So named because they take out what they call the brand tax sale, so sell everything for just $3. $3, you heard me right, they're pulling it off major retail disruption happening. Not such a surprise though, when you hear a little bit about their co-founder and CEO Tine Sharkey. She also co-founded the women's media site, iVillage. She headed up BabyCenter, so much more. Here is Tina Sharkey.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Tina Sharkey, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Tina Sharkey:
I'm so psyched to be here. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the head of one of my favorite new companies, Brandless named. You have so many accolades. Ad Age startup of the year, Fast Company Most Innovative Company of the Year, I mean, we could basically spend the whole podcast talking about how loved your new company is. Tell us a little bit about what makes Brandless so special.

Tina Sharkey:
I think it probably, just starting with the name. I think the name definitely catches people off guard because they think "Wait, are you anti-brand? Are you not a brand?" I'm like "Wait a second, we are unapologetically a brand." We're just reimagining what it means to be one, one that's built in total collaboration with the community that we serve. One that its core belief system is about scaling kindness. One that's all about truce and trust and transparency, and most importantly, we're hoping people will live more and brand less. At Brandless, everything that we make at Brandless.com is non-GMO food, mostly organic, vegan, gluten free, clean beauty, EPA Safer Choice certified cleaning. Everything that we sell at Brandless is $3, even in our first 10 months of life, we feel like we're really making a dent in democratizing access to better stuff at fair prices, and we live by the belief system that who says better needs to cost more? We want to make better everything for everyone. That's what we do at Brandless.com, and we're having a great time doing it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I can't believe it's only been 10 months, I feel like it's already changed our culture so much. All right. Speaking of culture, art, let's talk about art, because that has to do with your money story.

Tina Sharkey:
It does. I am not an artist, but I definitely see the world in pictures. There's an expression in French called [foreign language 00:04:37], and [foreign language 00:04:39] means struck by lightning, but the French interpretation of that is like love at first sight. When you say to someone in French, like "I had a [foreign language 00:04:47]," it means you feel in love with someone at first sight. That's how I've always admired art, and loved art, and found art, was that, I admire a lot of art, but there's times when it's like a [foreign language 00:04:58], where I feel like "Oh my goodness, that is like needs to be in my life." Because, at the end of the day, we don't ever really own art, you just take care of it while you get to have it, because it should withstand the test of time. I've been collecting art with every saved penny, nickel and dime since I'm a teenager.

Bobbi Rebell:
You wanted to share the story of your first big piece of art, which you got because you were actually, your mom was going to throw a party for you, tell us the story.

Tina Sharkey:
Yeah, yeah. When I was turning 30, my mom wanted to make a special party for me. I said "You know what, mom? That's so kind and generous of you. I love that. But what I really want is I have my eye on this piece of art, and there's no way I can afford it. If you wouldn't mind, maybe we could just do a small like family dinner or something, whatever budget that you were going to spend on the party, if you would help me towards this piece of art, then it would be something that I could have forever." It was actually a photograph of a walking birthday cake, it's like that giant, giant birthday cake on legs, by the artist Laurie Simmons. It's like a birthday present, because I'll have my birthday every day by looking at this photograph.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my gosh. I love it.

Tina Sharkey:
That was many years ago. That piece of art has since probably 100 times in value. In fact, I even found out that that photograph is now hanging in MoMA.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. It's something that you love, and it ended up being an investment as well.

Tina Sharkey:
Yes. All the art that I've ever bought, not that I've sold any. Actually, that's not true, I think I've sold two pieces. But all the art that I've ever bought have been appreciated tremendously in value. I've only bought things that I thought were real investment pieces.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you approach art as an investment first or purely from love? Or do they naturally go hand-in-hand with you?

Tina Sharkey:
I think it's that [foreign language 00:06:51]. It's like first it's about love, and really, really feeling like "Oh my goodness. I can't sleep." Like art you don't buy like shoes or clothes, it's not something you just make an instant decision on, it's something that's considered, because you have to live with it for the rest of your life, or you know, that's the idea. When I first see it, and then I think about it, I think about how I would live with it, how would it be part of my own family legacy, my own family history. That particular one, the story is even deeper in that my son was late in his verbal skills, he was sort of a running toddler before he was really forming sentences. But the only two words that he had were happy birthday.

Tina Sharkey:
Happy birthday meant everything at that time. This photograph has so much meaning to me, because it was a picture of a birthday cake. Charlie was saying happy birthday all the time, and my mom gave me the money that she was going to spend on my birthday party, and I put this photograph in my will to give to my son, because it always reminded me that his first two words were happy birthday.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for the listeners. How can they apply this to their own lives?

Tina Sharkey:
I think the way to apply to your own life, not everybody loves art, not everybody wants to invest in art, not everybody has the home, or the walls, or wants to be in that way, but thinking about when there is a milestone in your life that you want commemorate, how can you use that milestone to really do something that either is an experience, or something that you can both love and express your joy, but also have something that can withstand the test of time. Not just be like if you're going to have that great bottle of champagne or whatever it is. Do you really want that or would you like something that you can have forever, for a longer period of time? Thinking about milestones and passion, but also investments and time, because those things can withstand the test of time.

Tina Sharkey:
Taking that longer term view and commemorating those milestones with savings, or with opportunities, or with crowdsourcing a gift rather than having everybody get you something small, maybe you put it in a pool together to invest in something that's really going to be something that you're going to have for a long, long time to come.

Bobbi Rebell:
What a great idea. You also have a great idea that I totally buy into for your money tip that you're going to share.

Tina Sharkey:
This is great. My grandmother, we called her the goddess of goodness, and she was seriously the nicest person you ever met in your whole life. But, she did not believe in paying retail. Wherever she went, it didn't matter whether it was the finest boutique on Madison Avenue, or TJ Maxx, or Target, she would always say "Is this in line for reduction?" I swear to you, nine out of 10 times, she would always get like a 10% discount, or they said "Oh, we have a sale coming up, why don't we'll give you the sale price now." Or "We'll let you know when this goes on sale." Or "You know what? We're happy to get that, given that you're buying two things, we'll give you the second one at a discount."

Tina Sharkey:
The money tip there is never be afraid to ask. There is no harm in asking. Likely, there is a discount to be had. One of the tips that my grandmother didn't know that I now use, which is very much in line with that, is that many physical retail stores also have catalogs or also have websites. Often, when you sign up at their websites, they'll say "If you sign up and give us your email address, we'll give you 10% off," or something like that. You can say to them in the retail store "Do you offer that discount upon signing up for your email on your website?" If they say yes, then you can often say "Would you mind applying that discount if I do that here, right now?" They often will give you that right there at the retail store.

Bobbi Rebell:
So smart. Another way to save money is something happening at Brandless right now. You have exciting stuff coming up, tell us.

Tina Sharkey:
We do. We do. Just less than a year into our life, we are just recently rolling out our referral program. If you have an account on Brandless, which costs nothing to set up, and you share Brandless with friends and the discrete code that you can get in your account page, you can give a friend a $6-credit towards building their Brandless box. When they use it, you get a $6-credit to building your next Brandless box. That referral, when you think about all the people in your network, and the fact that everyone deserves to have better and everyone deserves to have better fair prices, you can give them a running start, and for every friend that uses it, that gives you more Brandless dollars to use towards your Brandless box.

Bobbi Rebell:
Basically, free money. Thank you, Tina. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you and of course about Brandless.com, but also you.

Tina Sharkey:
If you want to find out about me, you can follow me on Twitter @TinaSharkey, you can follow me on Instagram @tinasharkey, you can follow me on Facebook, but I would say the most important thing, because it's not about me, is really go to Brandless.com and tell us about you, join our communities at Brandless on Facebook, join our community and follow us @Brandlesslife on Instagram, because it's not about us, it's really about you, and we want to highlight and spotlight and share the incredible stories of the awesome people in our community. If you have recipes you want to share, if you have stories you want to share, if there's a favorite Brandless product that you love, or if there's a product you'd like to see that you think should be Brandless, let us know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great. I cannot recommend the website highly enough, it's very interactive, there's so much great content there. You will end up enjoying yourself spending lots of time there, and time well spent. Thank you so much, Tina Sharkey, this has been wonderful.

Tina Sharkey:
Thanks, Bobbi, have the best day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, friends. That interview let me feeling pretty empowered as a consumer, and excited about the changes happening in the retail landscape. But here's my take on what Tina had to say about her experiences. Financial Grownup tip number one, we all have so many well-intentioned gifts, they're the things we just don't want, the gift-giver was really sincere, and we don't want to return them, or we give them for of course a lot of reasons, mainly you just feel bad about it, if you feel ungrateful, but you don't want it, and then it sits in your house forever. The truth is, when I give a gift, and I think when most people give gifts, they want it to be something that the receiver really wants. We don't want to miss the mark.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes, it pays to be a little bit creative. This is just one idea, it can be tricky, but something to think about. One of my favorite presents ever is a very special Judith Ripka ring that my husband got for me when we were first dating. He was the one that picked it out, he went to the store, he made the choice, it was on him. However, that was after one of my friends discretely let him know the kinds of things that I would really like. He had some guidance. Because of that, he was able to get something that I just absolutely love and it's just perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tina's mom was going to spend a whole lot of money on a party that frankly Tina just wasn't that into, what a waste of money that would've been. Thankfully, Tina spoke up. In the end, she was able to get a piece of art that she loved. It reminds her of her mother, it reminds her of that birthday, it has wonderful associations, it even is multi-generational now because of the way that her son has interacted with it. Even though she doesn't plan to sell it, the reality is she could, and she says it's gone up maybe 100 times in value. It was also a good investment. Of course, had she had the party, the money would've gone poof for something, again, she didn't really want.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Rethink how much you're paying just to buy brand names. Tina of course does have an interest in pointing this out, it is totally true, and we're talking about that many of us mindlessly buy brand names. Think of things like medication where we have reservations about buying the generic version, which by law, literally has to have the same ingredients, and yet we, myself included, find ourselves often paying up for brand names, especially everyday household goods. We love our brands. But, just like Tina redirected her birthday party money, maybe think about it this way, if you redirect the money that you would save by avoiding paying the brand tax, and add that all up, think about what you could now afford. Just a reminder, I will always tell you if I have any affiliation, any ties to a company. I have no financial affiliation or ties to Brandless, I'm just a fan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, sticking to the birthday theme, I feel like we're celebrating a birthday here, the show turning 50 episodes. I can't begin to thank all of you for your support. Time goes so fast. Anyway, to learn more about the show, go to BobbiRebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. You can also sign up for our newsletter, we don't send it out very often. I believe there's just too much email out there, so I try to be careful with it. But when we do send it, we make it meaningful. Hopefully you believe it's worth your time and enjoy it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Continue to keep in touch. I am on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, you can also DM me there, feedback, suggestions for the show, all that good stuff. On Facebook, my page is Bobbi Rebell. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate and review on Apple Podcast. Tina Sharkey is a total boss. I don't know about you, but I feel like I'm going to see little legs behind birthday cakes for a little while. Imagining it, I can't get the image out of my head. She emailed me a copy of the photo, so I'm going to try to paste that into the show notes. I don't know if it'll work, but I'm going to try ... I think it'll work. I'm going to try. You will get a kick out of the picture, if not, I'll certainly find a way to send a link so that you guys can see the image that she is talking about. Thank you, Tina Sharkey from Brandless for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Entrepreneur and influencer Amanda Abella found out she was underpaid and often overlooked. But when she started playing hardball in negotiations with a really big potential client, she and her agent did not get the response they expected. 

 

In Amanda’s money story you will learn:

-All the things Amanda does to have multiple income streams tied to her own personal brand

-The challenges Amanda faced after graduating from college during the recession

-How her first job laid the groundwork for her current career as an entrepreneur

-How she and her agent planned for their negotiation with a potential client

-The pivotal decision that grew her brand ambassador asking rate almost 7 times over by focusing on her unique skillset

-What is a rate sheet, and what brand ambassadors do for clients

-How Amanda researched what was a new market/line of work for her business

-If Amanda has any regrets or things she would do differently in hindsight

In Amanda’s lesson you will learn:

-How she battles her nerves in high stakes negotiations

-Why the number of social media followers are less important than many people believe

-How to get brand partnerships by knowing what matters most to them

In Amanda’s money tip you will learn:

-How to find out about unpromoted discounts at restaurants and fitness clubs like SoulCycle

-How much you can save by using them, even if they are not advertised

-Amanda’s favorite places to get discounts and freebies

-What Amanda got for free recently at SoulCycle

-Why Amanda keeps getting water bottles

In My Take you will learn:

-How to asses what you bring to the market, to better negotiate higher rates

-What to do if you don’t currently have skills that add value to, and command a premium from, the clients you want to attract

-Tips to be more confident in a negotiation

-How the power poses, recommended by Amy Cuddy can give you an instant confidence boost when you really need it

EPISODE LINKS

Amanda’s website: amandaabella.com

Amanda’s podcast

Amanda’s course on becoming an influencer

Follow Amanda!

Twitter @amandaabella

Instagram- make sure to check out her feed AND stories: @amandaabella

Facebook Amanda Abella

Soulcycle.com where Amanda loves to get free stuff!

Check out Amy Cuddy’s Ted Talk!

 

---

Transcription

Speaker 1:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Speaker 2:
We went to the table with this very high number expecting them to push back on it and they didn't. Not even one peep. Not one question, not one push back. They were just like OK sign on the dotted line.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup and you know what being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's OK. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you like making money and want to know how to make more and ideally from different sources you are in the right place with our guests. Before we get to her though we've been getting a lot of new listeners so I want to just welcome all of you to the show and of course thank you so much to our returning listeners. So glad you are here. And if you have friends or family that you think would enjoy the show please tell them about it. Also the video promos everyone is asking about. So glad you guys like them. If you want one for your business or just for you we're having a little competition. I'm going to make one for a listener. All you have to do is share the promo videos on social media, starting now until July 1st whoever shares the most wins. I will announce the winner the first week in July.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Now to my friend and guest Amanda Abella. Besides the fact that for some reason her Instagram stories seem to be more entertaining than most TV shows she's hard to label because she does as she says all the things. Amanda is all about multiple income streams. She has a book Make Money or Honey, an award winning blog. She has been a brand ambassador for big names like Capitol One and [Into It 00:02:05]. She teaches millennials how to be entrepreneurs and influencers just like her and she will soon be bringing back her popular podcast. Here is Amanda Abella.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amanda Abella, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Amanda Abella:
Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm so psyched to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we've got to hang out and get to know each other recently at the Statement event in upstate New York. That was awesome.

Amanda Abella:
It was so much fun. I needed that so bad. You have no idea.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think we all did. I learned a lot about you. I mean you do all the things Amanda. All the things.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah all the things, literally all the things. I like my money coming from different places.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, multiple revenue streams, you're an entrepreneur, you're an author, your bestselling book is Make Money or Honey. And you also have an amazing social media feed that we were all gushing over at the retreat, especially your Insta Stories. You also are an influencer, you even have a course on how to be an influencer and you're a brand ambassador.

Amanda Abella:
Yup I literally do all the things.

Bobbi Rebell:
All the things.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah. What happened with me was you know I graduated during the recession and I just kind of learned really early on to always have your money coming from different places and then I was a recruiter for two years and I interviewed people who lost their jobs all the time. So I was like you always need to have multiple sources of income because if one thing doesn't work out like you get fired, well you still have money coming in from this other place so it started as a survival mechanism and now it's just a wealth building strategy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wise words my friend. And one of your multiple income streams that is growing is your brand ambassador business. And that brings us to your money story that has to do with a big new client that almost wasn't as big as you wanted it to be. Tell us.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah so what happened there was I started getting approached a lot more for brand ambassador work. And first of all I had no idea how much money you could make doing this stuff because I was just having so much fun. I didn't know what the market rates were. I didn't know how to negotiate these situations. I didn't know anything about the contracts. But I started getting approached for this kind of work. So I went to go find myself an agent because I was like I need help. And the agent trained me a little bit on what to do in the meetings and all those kinds of things. And we were negotiating with this really big client. It was the first time I was going to do something of that magnitude and we were trying to figure out my rate sheet.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of business was the client in? Can you tell us anything about it?

Amanda Abella:
Financial software.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Amanda Abella:
So we were trying to figure out my rate sheet for all the different deliverables and things like that because that's how green I was right, like I didn't even have a rate sheet.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of deliverables would be on the rate sheet?

Amanda Abella:
You know media appearances, social media posts, blog posts, e-mail blasts, Twitter chats, all that type of stuff, all the different things that they ask you to do. I was so green I didn't even have a rate sheet for these things. And we were trying to figure that out at the same time while negotiating with this particular client.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you even start? Is there some kind of a standard place you can go and get that information?

Amanda Abella:
So what really helped me was asking a lot of my friends who were already doing that kind of work. And that's actually how I found out that for many years I have been low balling myself just because I didn't know, like I had no idea. I had no idea I could get paid what they were getting paid and then also one of those friends is the one who connected me with my agent and my agent who has been doing this for a very long time she kind of schooled me on how much money I was leaving on the table. So that was really helpful for me too. So that's how I found out personally.

Amanda Abella:
So what was going on was when we were trying to figure out the rate sheet we were trying to figure out the numbers and I went pretty high on this client to the point where my agent who you know she was doing her job. She's coming from many years of experience was like are you sure you want to do that because you're still pretty green, like do you want to go that high. And I thought to myself well you know what I may be green in terms of working on these big campaigns but I've got plenty of years of blogging experience. I have a pretty big social media following, they're pretty engaged. I'm bilingual. You know I bring things to the table that they need. So let's just go high and see what happens. She agreed. So we went to the table with this very high number expecting them to push back on it and they didn't.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Amanda Abella:
Not even one peep, not one question, not one push back. They were just like OK sign on the dotted line.

Bobbi Rebell:
So but here is the question Amanda. Knowing what you know now would you have gone higher?

Amanda Abella:
Well I was already pretty high for me. I mean my agent was to the point where she was like congratulations you just gave yourself a bonus of thousands of dollars for this kind of work. Good job negotiating that one. So I thought about that and for this particular client no because that was already super high for me to begin with. But-

Bobbi Rebell:
How much of a percentage higher was it than you kind of thought you were getting or that you were getting before?

Amanda Abella:
It was way more than double. It was like six or seven times more what I was getting previously.

Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa. OK. I'm sorry go on.

Amanda Abella:
So then having learned from that experience which was also my first experience like being in those meetings with an agent and learning those sort of nuances when you're in those situations with PR teams and things like that it was definitely a real lesson and you know confidence sells. Number one. And number two, fake it till you make it if you have to.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you actually came, you weren't really faking it because it sounds like when you went to them you had very specific reasons why you were worth what you were asking.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah but it doesn't mean I wasn't nervous.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Amanda Abella:
I think people think that you walk into these situations and you're like fearless and you're not, you're just pretending not to be fearless which is where the confidence comes in. But you're right I did have specific experience and specific angles and specific things that I knew they wanted for this specific campaign and I definitely used it to my advantage. And like I said my agent agreed. So you know on the mere fact that I was bilingual I can get more money just because I'm bilingual and living in a city like Miami where everybody is bilingual I forget that that's actually a really valuable asset that I could get paid a lot more money for.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners who may not all be social media all stars and brand influencers, brand ambassadors, how can they apply this to their own lives?

Amanda Abella:
I think it's realizing that there is a lot of talk about the influence that you have in the social media numbers. They're really not that important. One of the things my students tell me all the time is I had no idea that I could get that kind of work with 3000 followers on my Instagram feed or a thousand people on an email list. They all go into my program assuming that they need you know tens of thousands or 100000 followers to get really good brand partnerships and what they don't realize is that brand partnerships are looking more for unique angles and engagement more than they're looking for the actual numbers. Because I mean you could pay to get followers and brands know it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. I want to move on to your money tip because this one is going to be a huge hit with our listeners. I love it because you're going to spill some secrets for us. What's your money tip Amanda?

Amanda Abella:
So my secret is all about the rewards programs that restaurants are really bad at marketing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Therefore they are secrets, they're sort of open secrets that nobody knows about.

Amanda Abella:
So if you frequent certain places and certain restaurants, I've noticed it's definitely more with the chain restaurants. A lot of times they have apps and on those apps they have rewards programs or loyalty programs or referral programs. So for example I go to a specific juice bar pretty often after I work out. I learned recently that they had an app where I could get like 10 percent off my [inaudible 00:10:13]after spending a certain amount or if I refer friends I get three dollars off my next juice. I had no idea because they hadn't actually like said anything to me, I just happened to see a, I saw a little thing on the napkin holder and then a friend also told me he was like you don't know that they have an app.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so random.

Amanda Abella:
So my tip is not only to use the apps and find them but ask to see if they're even available because like I said they don't necessarily do a really good job of telling their customers that these things exist. Unless you're Starbucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, Starbucks is pretty aggressive about promoting their app. But other companies maybe not so. And if you take the time just like with so many of the money tips that we talk about here if you take the time to focus and learn about these programs, ask about them, you will benefit.

Amanda Abella:
Yep, it's all about asking.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what's the best deal you've ever gotten through an app?

Amanda Abella:
Hmm well I'm getting 10 percent off my [inaudible 00:11:07]now. So that's pretty good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Pretty good.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah I'm kind of addicted to them to be honest so I would say that's the best one although I would say probably my best deals have been through the Soul Cycle app.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh OK.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah. So I do Soul Cycle. You know if you sign up for like certain challenges, if you're working out already anyway, you sign up for certain challenges or certain themed rides or they'll have certain promotions going on. Like I walked in yesterday and they gave me like a bag of free stuff because I'm partaking in this certain challenge and I've been tracking it you know on the app and then once I get to a certain amount of rides which the app tracks then I get a free ride. So that's probably the one that has saved me the most money because Soul Cycle is not cheap.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, can we just back up here because I really want to hear about the free stuff. What was in the free stuff bag from Soul Cycle?

Amanda Abella:
Yeah. So I got a bag. I got like a top to work out in. I got a water bottle. People just keep giving me water bottles lately, I have a whole collection of them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah water bottles are, we got water bottles on the retreat.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah. I was joking with my roommate I was like I lose one water bottle and require another four no matter-

Bobbi Rebell:
I know, I know. I am very excited about the Soul Cycle free stuff though. You have delivered, that alone Amanda, you scored. I want to talk about you because one of the things that happened on the retreat was you made a decision to pick something up that I loved. I loved your podcast and I'm so happy that you're going to bring it back.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah so I'm bringing my podcast back after much deliberation and I really want to thank Statement and all the women who attended it and all the tips you gave me Bobbi because I've been studying your podcast since I got back.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you.

Amanda Abella:
I was like Bobbi is on point. Bobbi knows what she's doing. I'm going to take some notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you.

Amanda Abella:
So I'm bringing my podcast back. It's coming back in July and it's going to alternate between solo episodes where I'm answering a lot of my audience questions about you know business, online marketing, negotiating, making money, all those types of things and then I'm also going to be bringing on a lot of guests so a lot of the women who were at the retreat have actually already signed up to be on the podcast so I'll be interviewing them. It will be a lot of fun and I'm trying to really bring as much diversity as I can to the conversation. So a lot of women, a lot of people of color. I'm Latina so that's something that really matters to me. One of the things I've heard so much from people is how sometimes it's hard for them to really relate to a lot of the mainstream financial advice that's out there because these people just you know either don't look like them or don't have the same experience as them. So I'm trying to bring as much diversity to the conversation as I can.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well thank you for that. I'm working on that here too. So I think we are hopefully on a good path with all that. Where can people find you, especially your Insta Stories which we're all obsessed with.

Amanda Abella:
Yeah my Insta Stories are a lot of fun. You guys can go watch me freak out over seeing snow for the first time on my Insta. Bobby was there for that. So you could go to Amanda Abella. That's my Twitter and my Instagram, I'm all over those all day long. You could also go to my Web site amandaabella.com or you could find my podcast, previous episodes of my podcast. So they're on iTunes, Stitcher, I Heart Radio, Spotify, YouTube, just search make money or honey or my name.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you Amanda.

Amanda Abella:
Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so here's my take on what Amanda had to say. Financial grownup tip number one. Take a moment and write down the skills that you have that are unique, things you can use as leverage to get more money in a negotiation. So in Amanda's case one thing that she is is Latina, she's also bilingual. If you can't think of something, become something. Learn a skill that will set you apart from others. Invest in yourself in a specific intentional way that will give you a foundation to command higher compensation. Focus on the skills that are most in demand but still hard to find in your field.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Amanda talked about the fact that confidence sells and that you have to sell yourself. She did OK when she waited for businesses to come to her but her business really took off when she took control and became proactive. Find a way to appear confident even if you're having jitters inside like Amanda admits she sometimes does. If you need to just leave the room to gather your thoughts if you're getting nervous during a negotiation. Maybe do some power poses. Look up a TED talk by a woman named Amy Cuddy. I'll put it in the show notes and you will see what I mean. I've done it myself and it really works.

Bobbi Rebell:
We have our first listener episode coming up in June. If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share email us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us what story you want to share and what your everyday money tip would be if you are chosen. Thank you all for being part of our financial grownup community. If you enjoy the show consider leaving a rating and review on Apple podcasts and of course hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any episodes. Follow me on Twitter @BobbiRebell. On Instagram I am @BobbiRebell1. Don't forget to DM me with your feedback about the show. I love hearing from everyone.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also if you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show join the competition. Share the videos when you see them on social media. Retweet, repost and so on. You can even see them by the way on YouTube now. We will pick a winner by July 1st. So look for us to move forward in early July. Amanda is amazing. I'm excited for her podcast to come back so make sure to watch her social channels for updates on that. Great episode. And thank you Amanda for giving us the confidence to ask for what we deserve and sometimes even more than we think we can get. Helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Jen Hemphill and her husband believe in supporting family, but when the author of Her Money Matters, and the host of the podcast of the same name, was asked to lend money to a relative, she realized it would come at a cost to her own financial well being. 

In Jen’s money story you will learn:

-How she and her husband have different approaches to helping family financially

-The role emotions play in decisions about lending and/or giving to family

-The impact Jen’s upbringing and her parents attitudes towards money played in her approach to lending and gifting money to family

-How communication issues can impact financial decisions

In Jen’s money lesson you will learn:

-Jen’s advice in how to respond when family needs financial help

-How you can prepare to be able to help family when it is needed

-How to stay on track with your own goals, even if family needs help

-Why Jen feels it is always better to gift than to lend to family

In Jen’s money tip you will learn:

-The specific strategy she uses to separate funds and save for goals

-How she applies her strategy of separate funds when it comes to every day savings at places like the grocery store

-How to use apps to facilitate using her strategy to save money

In my take you will learn:

-What to keep in mind when friends and relatives ask you for help

-Strategies to have money available for that purpose

-How to say no when helping financially is not in your budget

 

EPISODE LINKS

Get Jen’s new book!

Her Money Matters: The missing truth from traditional money advice

Follow Jen!

Twitter: @jenhemphilll

IG: @jenhemphill

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/jennifer.hemphill

 

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from Transferwise, the cheaper way to send money abroad, built by the brand behind Skype. Transferwise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Don't get sting by a bad exchange rate, or sneaky fees, join the two billion people who are already saving with Transferwise. Test it out for free at transferwise.come/podcast, or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.

Jen Hemphill:
We lent him the money, or actually gave him the money, and never saw it back. We had debt. We had things that we needed to pay for, things that we needed to purchase, and it also diminished our abilities to have that extra money to pay the debt that we had. Right? It was a very conflicting time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Thanks for joining us for this addition of the Financial Grownup Podcast. Before we get to our amazing guest, I am getting great feedback from all of you about these video promotions that we have been running to support the show, and you're asking me a bunch of questions, so I'm going to answer a few of them here. The first question everyone is asking me is, who is making them for me, who did I hire? I didn't hire anyone, I'm doing them myself. As you guys know, I love to learn new things, different technology, different programs, so I taught myself how to do them, and I'm having a great time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second question, I keep being asked is, where can I get them made for myself? Well, I am not going to go into the video promotion business, I'm just going to be doing it for Financial Grownup, at least for now, never say never. But in answer to the request, I am going to run a fun contest. For the next month or so, until early July. The first week in July, let's say, we are going to have a competition, where if you see the video promotions for Financial Grownup on social media share them, and whoever shares the most by the first week in July, I will make a video promotion for you. It can be for your business, it can be for an event that's coming up, it can just be for you, it can be a birthday message for a friend, or for your child. Whatever it is, anything reasonable we will make a fun video, and that will be my gift to you guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Onto our guest, Jen Hemphill. She is the host of the podcast, Her Money Matters, and the author of a new book by the same name. She is a big believer in helping family, but as a money expert she's also aware that sometimes those asked to give money may not really be in the best position themselves to be the ones giving. What do you do? Here is Her Money Matters, Jen Hemphill ... Jen Hemphill, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jen Hemphill:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited to hear more about your new book, Her Money Matters, which of course same title as your amazing podcast. Tell us just briefly about it, and we'll talk more about it after your story.

Jen Hemphill:
Sure. Basically, the whole premise of the book is to give more of a holistic approach to personal finance. It's not a book that's going to tell you how to budget, how to get out of debt, but really it's about the missing pieces that a lot of people don't talk about, because all we hear about save more, spend less, and get out of debt, but there's the emotional component of money that I dig a lot into, as well. It's really more the missing pieces, that is really not talked about, in general.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I want to get to your money story, because it has to do a lot with emotion, and the feelings behind when you gift, or lend money to friends, and family, because they can be sometimes the same things, sometimes lending becomes a gift, and you and your husband have very different approaches to it. Tell us about the first time this came up.

Jen Hemphill:
Well, the first time this came up was when we were first married, so this was almost, we'll be married almost 18 years, so this was-

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations.

Jen Hemphill:
Our first, oh, thank you. This was our first year in our marriage. We're a military family, we were stationed in Clovis Air Force Base in New Mexico.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Jen Hemphill:
First year married, we were really still trying to get to know each other, all the newlywed stuff. He got a call from my brother-in-law, and he, my brother-in-law apparently had hit a financial hiccup, and he reached out to his brother for help. Now, I grew up in a household that was very giving. My parents literally grew up in Columbia, and they always helped people. There was always people that would stay at our home, with their family, or some friends. My parents were always givers, even when they didn't have to give. Right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Jen Hemphill:
I saw that a lot growing up. I knew the financial struggles that they dealt with.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're they dealing with financial struggles because they gave more than they could afford?

Jen Hemphill:
I don't think it was that-

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jen Hemphill:
That might have been a component, but not all of the components. Right? But it was partial, because I saw them giving, and giving, but they were still trying to get their money stuff together. Right? I saw a lot of that. When I met my husband, one of the things that I love about him is his big heart. He is definitely a giver. He's also a spender.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are you the saver to a spender, by the way?

Jen Hemphill:
Yeah. I'm also a saver.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jen Hemphill:
When my brother-in-law reached out to him, we had the conversation, granted again, we were newlyweds. We were trying to figure this thing out, and I can't remember the exact $1.00 amount, but it was more than $500.00.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you know what kind of situation it was? Was it like a medical operation? Was it a business situation?

Jen Hemphill:
It was behind on bills, collections. Those type of things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your husband wanted to give him a loan, not a gift a loan?

Jen Hemphill:
Well, he told me a loan, but I knew him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jen Hemphill:
He's a giver. He's not going to expect it back. Where I was more, in my mind, a lender. If you're asking us to lend you money, I'm like, “Okay. You're going to pay us back.” We had debt. We had things that we needed to pay for. Things that we needed to purchase. Literally, at that time we just had our checking account, and our savings account and literally whatever savings went into our savings account, so it was the emergency account, it was when we overspent, it was for big purchases, so everything that was needed that wasn't in our checking account came from the emergency fund. It literally got depleted fast, and it also diminished our abilities to have that extra money to pay the debt that we had. Right? It was a very conflicting time. We had this conversation-

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:07:19]-

Jen Hemphill:
We lent him the money, or actually gave him the money, and then never saw it back.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. The communication to him, was it, “We are lending you this money,” and he didn't pay it back, or was it, “We are gifting you this money.”

Jen Hemphill:
That's a good question.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good luck with it.

Jen Hemphill:
Because my husband had that conversation with him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. We can't really blame your brother-in-law, because for all we know he was told it was a gift, to be fair.

Jen Hemphill:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson, now, 18 years later, you guys happily still together, what is the lesson for our listeners? How would that go now? Would you put your foot down more? What would happen now? What do you think listeners should do? Should they be in a similar situation?

Jen Hemphill:
What we've done is, we included this in our budget, so we set some money aside in a different account, and whenever a family member needs help, we just look at what's in that account, so that way it doesn't really disrupt what we're trying to do financially, and the goals that we're trying to achieve. There's a designated amount that goes in there every month, and currently has just been to help grand mom with some bills, and that's what we work with.

Bobbi Rebell:
It sounds like you've basically come to terms with you're just going to gift it.

Jen Hemphill:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
None of this lending to family, it doesn't work for you.

Jen Hemphill:
Yes, because then emotionally that's either get upset, “Oh, my gosh, we said we were going to lend it, we never got it back,” so I've learned and grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right.

Jen Hemphill:
Over the years to really, when it comes to family, and friends, and when it deals with money, it's just a gift.

Bobbi Rebell:
But your money tip, your every day money tip is also about separating out funds, that seems to be a common theme for you-

Jen Hemphill:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
You want to talk about what you do at the grocery store, and how you can use apps for this.

Jen Hemphill:
Yeah. Basically, my money tip is, what we tend to do, let's say we're at the grocery store, and maybe we have some coupons, always strike up a sale, and we're winning. We celebrate, “Yes. I've saved X amount this trip,” but what's important here is, yes, we can celebrate the $20.00, or $10.00, whatever that amount is that we saved, but what are we going to do with that money? Because we're missing out if we're just celebrating it, that we saved that money, but we're not doing anything with it.

Jen Hemphill:
Literally, we have the bank up on our phone. Right? And with so many people having smart phones, you can download your bank app, and whatever that amount of money that you save, transfer it to your savings, or transfer it to pay off some debt. Whatever you deem is best in your situation. But doing that versus just leaving it in there, you know it disappears. That money doesn't have a job, if you will, it just disappears. We've seen it time and again. I know I've experienced it, I'm sure you Bobbi have experienced it yourself.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. All right. Let's talk more about your book. I'm so excited for you.

Jen Hemphill:
The book, oh, my goodness. The subtitle of the book is, The Missing Truths From Traditional Money Advice, so when we think of traditional money advice, we think about, we really hear, “Save more, spend less, and get out of debt,” but I know from my own experience, I had the financial books, I've read those financial books, I applied what the experts told me, and I was still finding myself stuck. In the book, I really share the lessons that I learned, and what I found out that really kept me stuck after doing all the things right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Where can people find you?

Jen Hemphill:
Thank you. You can find all about me at jenhemphill.com. You can find the book there, or you can just go on Amazon, and just type in, Her Money Matters. It also has a companion workbook, because-

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.

Jen Hemphill:
My audience wanted worksheets, and so they ask, I provide. Each chapter has some questions, some worksheets for you to work with, because essentially I want that to be your cheat sheet. If you're feeling stuck, go back to that work, and go back to that workbook, if you buy the workbook, and refer to that, because that's going to help you get out of that funk that you're feeling.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that balance between emotional and then very specific practical tools. It's great. Thank you, Jen.

Jen Hemphill:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jen's story was a reminder that family really can be everything, however you define family. We should bend over backwards to help out the people that we care about in our lives. In Jen's case even though her brother-in-law did not pay back that loan, as time went on the asks for financial help from family did go down.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip, number one, remember it's hard for people to ask you for help, so factor that in when deciding what to do when someone comes to you asking for help. If you are able to help them with their financial troubles, it's usually a better idea to just give them money. If you lend them money, it becomes yet another thing that they need to pay back in a very stressful time. Of course, it can also put stress on your relationship with them. They might avoid you. They might feel like you're judging them, if they buy something. It's better to just keep it clean, give them the money. You know what? Someday you may be in a position where you need their help, and they'll be there for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip, number two. Jen talked about compartmentalizing money. Setting funds aside in different accounts for different purposes. This can be a great way to deliberately save for certain things like a slush fund for relatives that need help. Another thing that I have found can make a lot of sense to do is to put a certain amount of money, or allocate a certain amount of money, maybe on an annual basis to support friends, charities, causes that they care about.

Bobbi Rebell:
That way when people ask for you to support whatever they're involved in, it might be a charity run, or some other fundraising effort, a benefit, you can take the money out of that fund, and if at some point in the year, I mean, you got to be real, here, the funds could run out, you can tell them, “Look, I've completed my giving for the year, but I will send a donation in January.” People understand. Your resources are not unlimited even if your heart is.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you have not hit the subscribe button, please do so that way you won't miss any upcoming episodes of Financial Grownup, and of course you score extra bonus points with us if you rate and review the show. That way other people can learn about it, and be part of our community. Our first listener episode is coming up in June, if you want to be considered to be on an upcoming episode of Financial Grownup, email the money story, and the money tip that you would like to share to info@financialgrownup.com. We are going to see how it goes, and hopefully we'll be doing this once a month.

Bobbi Rebell:
A reminder, if you want to see the promo videos, they are sprinkled throughout our social media, and also we are putting them on our new YouTube channel, which is Financial Grownup, so you can easily just check them out there. You can also see our episodes there, you can listen to them I should say on YouTube as well. In social media, I am on Instagram, at Bobbi Rebell one, on Twitter at Bobbi Rebell, and on Facebook, Bobbi Rebell. Definitely DM me, give me feedback, let me know what you think about the show, let me know guests you want to see, and let me know which promo videos you like the best.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course, speaking of the promo videos, as I said at the top of the show, if you want a promo video for yourself, share them, retweet them, repost them, and whoever does the most social sharing between now and the beginning, the first week of July, I'm going to make a promo video for you. Jen's story was a great one, all about doing our best for our family, and our friends, and the people that we care about in our lives, such an important topic, so thank you, Jen, for helping us get one step closer to being Financial Grownups ... Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited, and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Life Coach and best-selling author Allison Task was a dot-com millionaire by 30, only to lose it all in the dot-com bust. But from there she started on a path that has included working with Martha Stewart, hosting cooking shows, writing cookbooks, building a coaching business and her latest book “Personal (R)evolution. How To Be Happy, Change Your Life, And Do That Thing You’ve Always Wanted To Do. “

 

In Allison’s money story you will learn:

-How Allison found became a millionaire when she was not yet 30 years old

-Why she had, and still has, conflicted feelings about whether she deserved the money

-How she lost the million dollars

-Why she actually came out in the red on the entire transaction, in large part because of the tax implications of the stock options

-What it was like to be part of the dot-com bubble

-What she might do differently were she to have another shot at a million dollars

In Allison’s money lesson you will learn:

-Her advice to listeners who want to earn a lot of money

-Why she does not advocate chasing money

-How she believes listeners can figure out what makes them happy

In Allison’s money tip you will learn

-Why her closet is so much smaller than her husbands

-Allison’s philosophy on how to maximize your clothing budget

-Her advice ,as  mom of four, on clothing for children, and how to make the most of your spending on kids shoes and clothing

-How her husband reacts when she calls his clothing “crap-oh- la”

-Why Allison shy’s away from great deals on clothing and vacations

In My Take you will learn:

-The basics of how stock options work

-Why taxes tied to stock options can complicate the investment

-How to manage an investment loss and offset future investment gains

Episode Links:

Get Allison’s new book Personal Revolution: How to Be Happy, Change Your Life, and Do That Thing You've Always Wanted to Do.

Visit Allison’s website

AllisonTask.com

Follow Allison!

Twitter: allisontask

Facebook: www.facebook.com/allison-task

Linked In: www.linkedin.com/allison-task

Instagram AllisonTaskCoach

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money abroad. Built by the brains behind Skype, TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. So, don't get stung by a bad exchange rate or sneaky fees. Join the 2 million people who are already saving with TransferWise. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.

Allison Task:
I just didn't feel right about it. Ethically, something felt wrong. It was too easy to make. I wasn't even 30. How do I have a million dollars? It wasn't my money. I didn't earn it. I didn't feel connected to it, and I felt a little wrong about taking it. It kind of felt like finding someone's wallet.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there to gather. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, we'll get to our guest in just a sec. But I want to take a minute to just talk about some stuff about the show that's been going on. We've been getting a lot of great feedback, compliments and questions about the video promotions that we run on social media to support the podcast. I thought it might make sense to address some of the questions here. First of all, lots of you guys are asking me who makes them for us. I actually make them myself. As you guys know, I love to learn new skills. I have a background in television production. I was a TV anchor for years. Part of working in media these days is learning a lot of technology editing and creative stuff. So, I'm really enjoying making them myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
The other question I'm getting the most is where you can get them made for your projects, for your business, or just for yourself. The answer is, well, I'm not going to go into that business. I have enough side hustles for now. But I did come up with an idea, an experiment that we're going to try here. We're going to have a little competition, hopefully, you guys are game, and the winner will get a custom video from me that I will make for your business, for you, for an event, whatever you want. Anything reasonable, we'll come up with something fun. The way it's going to work is from now until the beginning of July, I'm going to ask that whenever you see a video promotion for Financial Grownup, you share it on social media. Whether it be sharing on Facebook, retreating, reposting on Instagram, also DM me. Let me know that you're out there and that you are spreading the word about Financial Grownup. In the beginning of July, 1 week in July, I will see who is sharing the most and they will get a custom-made video promo just for them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, now to our fantastic guest. She is so cool. As you heard at the top of the show, the money came easy for a young Allison Task, and then it went poof, just as fast. But she has recovered. You'll be glad to know and has made peace with the whole drama. Not sure I would be so chill. But Allison did go on to work with Martha Stewart, and to host your own cooking shows. Also, she wrote some bestselling cookbooks. Alison has also built a life coaching business and she's got a great situation now with her husband and kids, and a fantastic new book that was just released called Personal Revolution: How to Be Happy, Change Your Life, and Do That Thing You've Always Wanted to Do. Basically, it's all the solutions to everything in a book. Yeah. Anyway, she's doing a lot, she's terrific. Here is Allison Task.

Bobbi Rebell:
Allison Task, you are a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Allison Task:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your new book, Personal Revolution: How to Be Happy, Change Your Life, and Do That Thing You've Always Wanted to Do. I binge read it this weekend. Even though I know I'm supposed to be doing exercises and stopping and going back and forth and all that good stuff. I promise I will, okay?

Allison Task:
You got it. It's there for you when you're ready.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. And you brought with you a money story which I have not heard in full yet. But I'm really excited about the beginning and really curious about the end, go for it.

Allison Task:
Okay. Well, the beginning is I need a million dollars and then cut to the end I lost a million dollars all before I was 30. That was actually real dollars. That wasn't like my monopoly, that was real.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Fill in the blanks on that one.

Allison Task:
Okay, the blanks are simple, dot com. I was one of those early dot com kids and was one of the first 50 people in three different companies. One of them went public when I was there, and I had two commas in my bank account that I checked via etrade.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us the details. What was the company and how did you end up working there? Tell us just a little bit more.

Allison Task:
Sure. The company was called Silicon Valley Internet Partners. I was the marketing director. So, after a year it was then called Viant. You may remember at the time there was Viant, there were Siant, there were lots of internet builders. We were the people who were strategists, designers, and technologists to large companies who wanted websites back in the 90s. We helped create the not.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
I remember that.

Allison Task:
Yeah, we worked with People Magazine. We worked all over new media and old media, literally building their high-performance websites.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So, explain how you made the million dollars. You were paid in stock? What exactly happened? How did the million happen?

Allison Task:
I was employee number 50. I was there for four years. I was paid in stock. Generous stock options. Probably year two when I was there, we went public and those stock options that were pennies went to over three figures. So, I had multi million dollars on paper. And [inaudible 00:05:56] I exercised my shares, which means I got to pay taxes on those multimillion dollars too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you sell the stock when exercised those shares? [crosstalk 00:06:03] different. Right. So, explain how this works. You have to pay the taxes when you actually receive the stock, but that doesn't mean you sold the stock and received money.

Allison Task:
Correct. So, I probably purchased the stock when it was around 60. It went up to 120. And then I remember my father telling me, "Honey, it's at 30, you need to sell. You need to sell." I'm like, "It's fine." I didn't sell until it went down to six, and then it became a penny stock and I believe delisted.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So, you went from a million, more than a million-

Allison Task:
More than a million.

Bobbi Rebell:
... to ultimately that whole venture cost you money because of the tax. Is that correct?

Allison Task:
Yeah, that's so painful. I did have five years during which I was not paying tax. I was not paying tax, why? Because I had then got to write off the loss. But, yeah. I think it wasn't, definitely it wasn't a million dollars in the bank account. Let's just say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Well, first of all, looking back, is there anything you could have done differently? I guess you should have sold it at 120 if you are had a crystal ball, which you did not.

Allison Task:
Listen, with four kids, I would not have minded having that money, made a few investments. I think it would have been prudent to have earned it. What it did do for me, though, was set me up with my attitude for life. First of all, I say it's a million-dollar joke, I need to laugh a lot and I learn a lot from that experience, right? There's some value there.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you weren't alone, by the way.

Allison Task:
Oh, God. No.

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Allison Task:
Definitely. At least I did it to myself, you know what I mean? No one was [inaudible 00:07:25] me. That was my choice, fair and square. I think I always felt uncomfortable because I didn't earn the money, right? I wanted to earn it with my effort. I felt like, well, I was just part of a big thing. Well, that money came from somewhere. Someone had their retirement account and it went into Viant at some time. It wasn't my money. I didn't earn it. I didn't feel connected to it. I felt a little wrong about taking it. It kind of felt like finding someone's wallet.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is a little psychiatrist's thing, but do you feel like you sabotaged yourself the way you're talking?

Allison Task:
I think you're onto something. I just didn't feel right about it. Ethically, something felt wrong. It was too easy to make. I wasn't even 30. How do I have a million dollars? I'm a marketing director for a dot com company. Come on. Come on. I'm not working that hard. How did I create that value? I didn't. In the end, it wasn't a value. It went away. It was part of the big bubble. Something of it felt dirty. Money is money, that was someone's, it wasn't mine. I didn't earn it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back in all your grow up wisdom, what is the lesson, what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Allison Task:
Well, the take away is definitely find a way to earn your money in a way you feel good about. I, after that, literally left and started working for myself, right? When you work for yourself, you're only as good as your last client. You're only as good as your last experience. I developed a lot of personal integrity in terms of the way I work and the way I want to do my work. From that, I have something that's more important than money in my opinion, which is life satisfaction. Making a meaningful contribution. I'm a life coach. Everyone who comes to my office wants to make a meaningful contribution, every single last one. It's more valuable than money.

Allison Task:
I lost the money and learned the lesson, but I still really ... I had my ethics and values and I knew something wasn't right. What's the lesson your listeners?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Allison Task:
If you make a lot of money and you keep chasing money, there's something that's not right. There's a lack of fitness. If you have money and you keep chasing money, it's like you can never be too rich or too thin. I don't subscribe to that. I think there's a weird thing when you keep chasing money. So, figure out what that's about if you actually want to be happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, we're going to pivot and kind of take a different angle. Because your money tip actually has to do with splurging. So, I guess it's okay if you have the right amount of money to splurge. Tell us more about how you approach that.

Allison Task:
Definitely. Splurge and enjoy it. This one, I'm going to take you into my closet for this one. My husband and I share a closet. It's a walk-in closet. But my side is pretty small. And why is my side small? I buy outstanding things. I used to go to the Gap and get six pairs of pants, half of which were on sale, most of which would fall apart in three months. I now by very expensive high quality essential pieces. Like, a pair of black pants, an amazing pair of Frye boots. My husband likes a sale, and he has a lot of crap-hola that doesn't exactly look, good fit.

Bobbi Rebell:
How would he feel if he heard you say that?

Allison Task:
He would not his hand and say, "I know hun, I know."

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, really?

Allison Task:
I know, but it was such a good deal. But it was such a good deal. No good deal. Certainly not when you're sharing my closet, babe. No. Those vacations, right? You wait all year to go on the vacation. Spend the money. Spend the money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Easier said than done. What about with your kids?

Allison Task:
Ah, my kids. I'm so glad you brought that up because I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. First of all, I have four kids, three of whom are under five. I do not want tons of crap, right? Their shoes, they each get one pair of sneakers, period. Wear it until there are holes in it. I mean that literally. They were their sneakers-

Bobbi Rebell:
But what if they get wet?

Allison Task:
Well, they have really good rubber boots.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book. As I mentioned, I whipped through it in literally one day. I know you're not supposed to do that, because one of the best things about it is it really, if you do go through this book properly, it holds you accountable.

Allison Task:
The book is nine chapters, end and intro. Each chapter is designed to be a guidebook workbook. So, the thing about seeing your coaches, coaches ask you lots of questions to get you deeper into your own thinking. Throughout the book, there's action points and insight points with lots of questions. I say please use it with a workbook, use it with a computer. Before you can go on to the next chapter, there's a prep sheet. You're constantly scaling yourself. How much closer am I to achieving my goal?

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your favorite chapter then?

Allison Task:
I really like chapter five. Chapter four is identify your network. It's for people who want to do more networking. Anytime you have something you want to do, you call upon your people. You call upon your social network to help you. That is everything. Chapter five is expanding your network, right? So many people feel awkward about self-promotion, about asking others for things. So, once I got you to trust me and feel comfortable that like you are loved and people root for you, now let's take the next step and expand upon that existing network.

Allison Task:
My second favorite chapter is the last chapter, which is all about celebrating. You've achieved it. You've done it. Now, let's set that experience in your brain so that you can do it again and you can call upon it in the future. My book launched last week, and last week, it became a best seller on Amazon and actually still is. And so now, this is that time for me. I get to celebrate and do end runs with everyone who helped me along the way, and that's a total joy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we will leave you to celebrate. Where can everyone find you and find out more about the book and everything you're up to?

Allison Task:
Thank you. Please visit allisontask.com. That's A-L-L-I-S-O-N-T-A-S-K.com. Plug it in to Facebook, Twitter, I'm Allison Task all over the place.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Allison Task:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, Allison was pretty cool about the loss, but I wonder how she really was back in the day. I do want to do a little bit of explaining about how options work and what exactly happened in terms of the tax consequences. Because we sort of alluded to it a little bit. Allison talked about how it worked out, but I think it's important that you guys understand at least a little bit about how options work.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. If you do ever get offered stock options, obviously, do the research thoroughly and understand how they work. Because as Allison explained, you can sometimes be on the hook for taxes, even before you actually have the cash from the stock. So, a little bit about that. Options basically mean that you can buy or exercise shares at a preset price, known as the strike price. If a stock is selling at a price higher than the strike price, you basically get to buy the stock at a discount. If you sell them right away, guaranteed profit. The catch, and this is what Allison mentioned, is that you owe tax on the transaction, whether or not you sell the stock at that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you sell the stock, you have the cash to pay the tax from your actual profits that you took, you got the money, you're good. But if you are betting that the stock is going to keep rising even more and you want to hold on to it so you don't sell it, you still have to pay the tax on that paper profit that you had by exercising the option. So, then, if the stock goes down and you sell it for a loss, the thing is, the government does not send you a check refunding the taxes that you paid. It doesn't work that way. It's really important that you understand how that works, and the risk involved.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Back to the taxes. So, the tax payments are painful, but they can be used in the future to offset other investment profits. So, let's say that you have a capital gain on another stock, another investment the next year. You can carry forward the losses from the first transaction and then you can offset those gains plus, an additional $3,000. So, it's going to help your tax situation going forward, even though no one wants to have paid taxes on money they didn't really make. You do get at least to match it up against profits going forward. That's basically what Allison did, and what she was referring to when she kind of jokingly said that she did not pay taxes for five years.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right everyone, please continue to rate and review the show if you have not on iTunes or Apple Podcast. Every single review matters. I know it's another thing to do. You guys are busy, but it is truly appreciated. And of course, hit the subscribe button so you don't miss any episodes. We are also now on YouTube, just starting out there. So, we're posting the show there and we're also posting those promotional videos. Just search for financial grown up and you'll find it and you can see the promotional videos there. And, if you are following me on Instagram @bobbirebell1, please DM me. I want to hear from you guys and hear what you like about the show, what you want to hear differently on the show, guests that you want all that good stuff. So, be in touch and of course, follow me on Instagram @bobbyrebell1, and twitter @bobbirebell. I'm on Facebook, Bobbi Rebel. Learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, go check out Allison Task's new book, personal revolution, Personal Revolution: How to Be Happy, Change Your Life, and Do That Thing You've Always Wanted to Do. It is already a bestseller, and thank you, Allison, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

 

Clever Girl Finance’s Bola Sokunbi is famous for saving $100k on a $54k salary in about 3 years. But then she started dropping $3,000 on a massive collection of luxury handbags, most of which she never even used. 

In Bola’s money story you will learn:

-How she saved more than $100,000 on a salary of just $54,000 in three and a half years

-The side hustle that helped her reach that goal

-How after she reached that goal, she made a very unexpected spending splurge

-The fascinating reason, looking back, that she went down that path and kept going!

-The moment she woke up and realized she had to make a change

-Exactly what she did to get back on track and make a profit in the process

-The regret she had despite making money on her debacle

-Why she thinks so much about Amazon stock

In Bola’s money lesson you will learn:

-Why keeping her handbags in top condition was the key in getting a solid return when she went to sell them

-Other ways to maintain the value of resale able luxury goods like handbags

-Her take on investing in goods like handbags compared to the stock market and corporations

In Bola’s money tip you will learn:

-Ways to get luxury goods like handbags for less money without compromising quality

-Bola’s favorite pre-owned goods resources

-How friends can trade or sell handbags to each other

-Bola’s new strategy for buying expensive handbags

In my take you will learn:

-Why I compare Bola’s handbag venture to winning the lottery

-The difference between saving money and building wealth

-How to sell luxury goods like handbags, as well as other things you can sell, like baby strollers

-Why I do not promote buying fake goods as a cheaper option

Episode links

Bola’s website: CleverGirlFinance.com

Bola’s podcast: Clever Girls Know

Follow Bola!

Twitter Clever Girl Finance

Instagram Clever Girl Finance

Facebook Clever Girl Finance

LinkedIn Bola Sokunbi

 

Also mentioned in the show:

Vestiare Collective

Fashionphile

Rent the Runway

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Bola Sokumbi:
I've always been a handbag junkie. It's just something about leather. Like the smell of fine leather that just ... I don't know.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. This is one of those, "She did not do that," episodes. My guest was a champ at saving money on a very low income, but once she had that money, things took in unexpected turn and then there was yet another unexpected twist to the story. Bola Sokumbi is a certified financial education instructor and the force behind the very popular, Clever Girl Finance, a website and podcast that empowers and educates women to make the best financial decisions for them. Here is Bola Sokumbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Bola Sokumbi, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Bola Sokumbi:
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of yours. First of all, in addition to being a money expert, you are the force behind Clever Girl Finance, which is a website and a podcast. It started after you. I don't even know how you did this. You saved $100,000 in three and a half years on a salary of, I want to say, about $50,000?

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah. I was making $54,000 before taxes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Give us just the high level. How you did that.

Bola Sokumbi:
I basically got lean and mean with, probably, my finances. I contributed to my retirement fund from my employer because I knew they were offering a match and that was a way for me to get some free money. I kept my expenses super low. I avoided my friends and stayed home. I wasn't going out to eat very much. I wasn't buying alcohol. I was the-

Bobbi Rebell:
Temporarily, right?

Bola Sokumbi:
Temporarily.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Bola Sokumbi:
I was in a steady ramen noodles and coke diet. I focused on saving 40 to 50% of my paycheck and anything extra.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Bola Sokumbi:
I save my tax returns, my bonuses. I try to save as much as possible. I also started a side hustle. I started a wedding photography business, which really helped to increase the amount of money I was bringing in. That helped contribute to me being able to save that amount of money. Finally, I avoided credit cards as best I could. I, instead, used a charge card that require me to pay my balance in full every month. That kept me really mindful about my spending, but overall, it was really just setting the intention that I wanted to save and I wanted to challenge myself to save six figures. I put my mind to it. I gone to that focus and three and a half years later, I was able to save that $100,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
So smart. In full details, if anyone wants, go to Clever Girl Finance. I want to talk about your money story that you brought because Bola, this is like an incredible story given what you just said.

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here you are. You got $100,000. You're hustling with a side hustle. You're eating ramen noodles. You're doing everything intentionally, maxing out your retirement account to get the max. What do you do? You start buying $3,000 handbags. Tell us what, what.

Bola Sokumbi:
Holla.

Bobbi Rebell:
What?

Bola Sokumbi:
Let me break it down. Basically, I got to this point where I had saved a ton of money. I had a lot of money in the bank. Actually, at the end of the four years, I had about $150,000 saved. I was making more money. I had my business. I gone raising at my job. I was earning, now, well over six figures at this point. I was like "Wow, I have all this money. I maxed out my retirement savings. I'm still meeting my savings obligations. I just have to treat myself." I've always been a handbag junkie. It's just something about leather, like the smell of fine leather that just ... I don't know.

Bobbi Rebell:
I personally would've bought a pint of Haagen-Dazs if I wanted to treat myself but okay. $3,000 handbags.

Bola Sokumbi:
I went all the way, yes. I got my first designer handbag like "Oh my God, this is amazing. It's beautiful. I bought this in cash. I love it."

Bobbi Rebell:
What was it? Describe it.

Bola Sokumbi:
It was a Channel Jumbo in black caviar leather with gold hardware, classic, beautiful.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I wouldn't know.

Bola Sokumbi:
I got the one. Should've been enough, but then I was like well, few months later, I have all the spare money. I'm still saving. I didn't know what to do. I want to invest, but I don't need to invest that much. I'm going to buy another designer handbag. I got to the point where I was buying several handbags for maybe three or four years. To me, it was fine because I was still saving. I was still meeting my obligation.

Bobbi Rebell:
How much do you think you spent in total, Bola, on the handbags?

Bola Sokumbi:
Oh my goodness. I don't know. If we were to have an Instagram competition on who could grab their handbags steady for the next 30 to 60 days, I would win, every time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Wait. You're going to have a different handbag every day for 30 to 60 days?

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah, I could. Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Bola Sokumbi:
I could've. I have a lot of handbags. I had them in different colors-

Bobbi Rebell:
Were they just sitting in the closet? Were you taking them to work? What was going on with the handbags?

Bola Sokumbi:
That's the sucky part. I maybe use like two or three. Well, I was exaggerated. I didn't have 60. Exaggerating. About a month. Let's say, a month. I didn't really use them. That was a disappointing factor. I'm one of those people that believe that if there's something that you like and it's something that you're going to use, go for it as long as you plan it out financial, but I wasn't using them. They did not make financial sense for me. I was using like one or two of them, and then maybe the others, I would look at or wear to a baby shower for 25 minutes and it goes right back into the closet. It did not make any financial sense. Fortunately, for me, at the time that I purchase them, for those of you who are into handbags, knew that there have been a flurry of price increases especially with the higher end luxury brands.

Bola Sokumbi:
At the time I bought the handbags, I bought them before the crazy price increases started. I got to a point where I was like "Okay, this doesn't make any sense." I will look in my closet and all I would see would be dollar bills stacked up. My husband is like "You need to let these go. You don't even use them. It doesn't make sense. You feel so guilty about having them because you're not using them." I took it upon myself to sell almost every one of them. I still have a few. The ones I use. It was really hard to sell them because I felt like I was selling my children. It's crazy. When I think about it, it's ridiculous, but I sold them. Luckily, for me, because of the price increases, I was able to sell them for a lot more than I purchase. That very first Channel handbag, the black jumbo I just described with caviar hardware, I paid $2,900 for it and I sold it for $5,500.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness. Only you, Bola, would actually turn a cringeworthy shopping habit into a positive investment experience.

Bola Sokumbi:
However, Bobbi, to the point you asked me before we started recording was, I made money but when I think about it, I really didn't make that much money because one of the things that trigger me to start selling those handbags was Amazon stock. I realized that if I had spent all that money I spent on those handbags on Amazon Stock, I would've had times 100 of what I had spent on handbags. Not just doubling my money. I would've like times 100 it, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
If you had actually bought Amazon Stock, but truthfully, how much do you think ... do you think you spent $90,000 on handbags?

Bola Sokumbi:
Oh, I don't know. Over a three to four year period, I spent a lot of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. You bought 30 handbags at $3,000 each.

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah. I had about 30. They were not all the same price.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Bola Sokumbi:
They were not all $3,000 handbags.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the most expensive one?

Bola Sokumbi:
The Channel handbags I had. They were about in the $3,000, $3,500 range at that time. Now, they're not anymore. They're about 6 to $7,000 now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Bola Sokumbi:
I don't own any more handbags by the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson from this beyond the fact that there was a time in life when investing in handbag was actually an appreciable asset? Still, they probably know. I don't know the market, but anyway, beyond the fact that it actually turned on to be a good investment.

Bola Sokumbi:
I wouldn't even describe as an appreciable handbag because for me, it was just purely for the fact that I was not using them. No one is going to pay you top dollar for a handbag that has been worn and beat up. If you're buying something, I believe that you should be using it. Lesson for this is cost per wear. You can have 100 Channel handbags if you want to have them and if you can afford them and you're paying for them in cash and it's not taking off your financial goals, but what is your cost per wear. How often are you using them? Are you getting your money's worth? If you buy a handbag for $3,000 and you wear it once, then that one time you wore it cost you $3,000 and that makes no sense. If you buy this handbag and you wear it 3,000 times over four years, then that handbag cost you $1 or maybe it comes down to cents and pennies and that starts to make more sense because as opposed to buying $25 handbags over that three-year period and use that one handbag over that time and you get your cost per wear.

Bola Sokumbi:
To me, cost per wear is really important. That's how I plan out my wardrobe. I still buy fancy things, but I have to be using them. I have to get my cost per wear down to pennies for it to make sense. I know when I see something if I'm going to use it or not. Understand your cost per wear. People may think, "Oh, buying handbags is crazy," but people spend their money on different things. For me, it was the handbag thing. Some people spend their money on electronics, on cars, on things that they don't necessarily use like having a second car in your garage that you drive on Saturday is not good to drive per wear.

Bobbi Rebell:
The handbags make you feel good.

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah. I would pick a handbag over a lot of things. That was me. That was a lesson I learned. I put the money right back into my investment accounts. I was better for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's stick with the handbag thing. What is your money tip, your everyday money tip for everyone?

Bola Sokumbi:
I would say that if you are a handbag girl like me, no shay, no judgment, find ways to get the handbags that you like at a cheaper cost or without putting out so much money. For instance, Bobbi, you and I talked about Rent the Runway. You really like that. If you want to actually own them, you can think about getting them preowned from sties like Fashion File or Vestiaire Collective. There's a bunch of different ones that are reputable that sell authentic products or even local consignment stores in New York. There's a ton of them. Or buying them off of friends who are trying to let go of their handbags or trying to recycle their wardrobe. Those are great ways that you can get luxury at a lower cost. You can also wait until some of these handbags go into the sale and purchase them that way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Because a lot of them are really classic.

Bola Sokumbi:
Yes. It's all about buying something that you know you're going to use for a long time. I tend to avoid any trend pieces because I don't want to be out of fashion next year after spending all this money on it. I buy bags that I can carry forever. That's what I do. Every purchase I make right now, I carry that bag to shreds, basically.

Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely. Get that cost per wear down. Where can people find you and learn more about Clever Girl Finance?

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah. You can find me on my website at clevergirlfinance.com, on Instagram at Clever Girl Finance, on Facebook, Clever Girl Finance. I also have a podcast called, Clever Girls Know. You can search for it on iTunes, Stitcher, Sound Cloud. You'll find it there as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think everyone should definitely check all of that out. I am a big fan. Thank you so much, Bola.

Bola Sokumbi:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Except for the fact that she was ironically able to sell the handbags at a profit, this whole thing reminds me of what happens when people inherit a ton of money or they win the lottery and then they just don't know what to do, so they go shopping. Financial Grownup tip number one, Bola was great at accumulating money but she was selling herself short when it came to building wealth. She was meeting her goals in terms of saving and investing and all that, but that doesn't mean she couldn't move the goal post given the resource that she had and make even more ambitious goals. Not a problem to buy a bag that you can afford, but she wasn't even using most of them. Bola is very specific that, well, they ironically went up in value if she had invested the money. In her case, she talks about Amazon Stock, she would've made a lot more money. Of course, you could lose money in the stock market. There's no guarantee of that. It's just something to consider.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, if you do buy luxury goods and you aren't using them, it is easier than ever to sell them, so many resources online. You may not make as big a profit as Bola did, you may lose money but you're still going to get some cash. I have sold some bags on the real wheel. I've been happy to have the cash even though it went for less than I paid. You can also buy slightly used bags there at a discount if you want them. As I've said before, you can rent them at Rent the Runway or other similar websites. I will leave some links in the show notes for you guys. Given these resources, I would also urge you to stay away from the fakes. It undermines the economy and the business of the companies that produce the real thing. Don't buy fake bags. Also, it is illegal.

Bobbi Rebell:
We want you to be a financial grownup. Send us an email to info@financialgrownup.com if you want to be considered for one of our monthly listener episodes. Just tell us what the money story is that you want to share and your everyday money tip. If you have not already, please rate and review the podcast on iTunes, Apple Podcast. That helps others discover us and grow the community. It is truly appreciated. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and follow me at Bobbi Rebell on Twitter @ bobbirebell1 on Instagram and on Facebook, I am at Bobbi Rebell. Bola is the best. I am so appreciative that she was brave enough to get really candid. She definitely got us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

New dad and financial advisor Kevin Matthews wanted to start teaching his baby about money even before his son was born- and almost missed his birth! But the video evidence of his dedication to the future financial health of his baby is a gift that is truly one of a kind. 

In Kevin’s money story you will learn:

-Why he felt so compelled to shoot a video right before his son was born

-The strategy he wanted to share that would make his newborn child a millionaire

-The three specific things he will do to make sure his son is a millionaire

-Why he regrets taping the video

In Kevin’s money lesson you will learn:

-Why planning ahead or recording in advance would have been a better move in retrospect

-How he will alter his strategy with his next child!

In Kevin’s money tip you will learn:

-Why rebalancing a portfolio is essential

-How to tell if you need to rebalance your portfolio

-Exactly what to do if your portfolio is not balanced. 

In my take you will learn:

-Why planning for the future sometimes has to take a back seat to focusing on the present

-How to time your financial check ups

Episode Links

Building Bread

Get Kevin’s book Starting Point: How to Create Wealth that Lasts

Watch Kevin’s video series Bread Crumbs

Follow Kevin

Twitter @buildingbread

Instagram @buildingbread

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/BuildingBread/

Email Kevin info@buildingbread.com

 

 

Also mentioned

Phroogal

Jason Vitug

The Financial Gym

 

Kevin Matthews II promo for the Financial Grownup podcast with Bobbi Rebell.. Kevin shares his story of recording a video for his son, about 3 ways to make sure he became a millionaire, and how he cut it very close to missing the birth of his first son!

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at TransferWise.com/Podcast, or download the app.

Kevin Matthews:
I would not do it the same way. That was a huge risk that I took, and I got lucky that I was able just to run back up, and everything was okay, and I was in the right spot, so I probably would not do it again.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with me, certified financial planner, Bobby Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grown Up. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in getting our financial plans together for the future that we miss something super important in the now. For financial advisor, Kevin Matthews II, who runs BuildingBread and is the author of Starting Point, How to Create Wealth That Lasts, making sure he created a video moments before his son was born seemed really important at the time, but looking back, maybe it could have waited. I'll let Kevin fill you in. Here is Kevin Matthews II. Hey, Kevin Matthews. You are a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.

Kevin Matthews:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We met actually at an event for Phroogal, run by our mutual friend, Jason Vitug. I was so impressed with you, and I went and I ran after you, and said, "I need to rack you down. I need to have you on my podcast." Thank you so much for being here.

Kevin Matthews:
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You gave a great presentation, and that's a lot of what you do. You're a financial advisor, but you also do a lot of speaking. You also have BuildingBread is your website, your company, and you are a two time author.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
We will talk about more about that. That's a little teaser, my friends. We're gonna talk more about Kevin's books and his business in just a few minutes, but first, I want to get to your story, because it has to do with your baby that was just born, your son. By the way, are you a first time father?

Kevin Matthews:
Yes. This is then first time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations.

Kevin Matthews:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Share our story, because this is very special and very sweet.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Yeah. I do a segment that airs every week, so I do what's called BreadCrumbs, and I give out financial tidbits every Wednesday morning.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where is this, on YouTube, or where can people see it?

Kevin Matthews:
This is primarily on Facebook.

Bobbi Rebell:
On Facebook. Okay.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. I have it in Facebook for my group. It's also on Twitter and through my email list as well. Every week, I get on. We'll talk about what's in the news. I'll give you a few tips and continue that way. So, at the hospital, about two hours before my son was born ... It was Wednesday. I'm a dedicated person, so I was like, "Look. I need to do this, because once he's born, there's no way I'm gonna stay on schedule." So, I ran downstairs. I shot a video on compounding interest and a few tips we were gonna do for my son to make sure that he was gonna become a millionaire.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. You called it Three Things for Your Son to Become a Millionaire.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Three things we were gonna do to make sure my son was a millionaire. So, I went down. I was live in the lobby of the hospital, because I couldn't record in the room. I'm shooting, and I assume at this time my wife has maybe two, three, four hours perhaps before he's born.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no. Kevin, you're a first time father. Babies don't go on your schedule. First lesson.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. I learned. I shoot the video. It takes maybe 15, 20 minutes. I get back in the elevator, and the minute I walk in they say, "Okay. Push." I'm like, "Wait. This is it?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are so dedicated to your group that you almost missed the birth of your son.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes. I was so dedicated to his future that I almost missed the present. Yeah. I was able to do both. I definitely made it, but had I been maybe 20 minutes later, going down and recording, or had the video been longer or something, I definitely could have missed it. This was in the middle of that last winter snowstorm as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. So, we want everyone to go watch the actual video, but give us some highlights of the advice and the lessons for your newborn son to become a millionaire.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Yeah. It's really getting yourself in position to make sure that he's gonna be taken care of. There's the life insurance piece, and there's the piece that you want to make sure that you're updating all of your recorders, your beneficiaries, all of that, because sometimes when you have a kid, when you get married, when those life changes happen, you want to make sure that everything is in place to have everything updated, so that it reflects your current family situation, which again, is fluid. The second thing that we just did actually was open up an investment account for him and then begin saving for him now, so that when he's in his 30s, maybe even 40s, he will be much farther along than I was or anyone in my family actually.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of account was it? It doesn't sound like you're talking about a 529 for school if he's gonna get it in his 30s or 40s.

Kevin Matthews:
Correct. Right now, the first account we opened was a custodial account for him. We may do a 529 plan in the near future, but I started with a custodial account.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very good. The full video available on Facebook. What is the lesson from not just the lessons that you're giving your newborn son, but what is the lesson from this story, where you admitted you didn't really plan well, but you also were really dedicated to your business? So, would you do it again the same way?

Kevin Matthews:
The same way? No. I would not do it the same way. That was a huge risk that I took, and I got lucky that I was able just to run back up, and everything was okay, and I was in the right spot. I probably would not do it again. Definitely planning ahead would have been easier. Probably recording in advance would have been easier as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, but it did have that special live quality as well.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes. It did.

Bobbi Rebell:
It will always have that.

Kevin Matthews:
It worked for that one time, but to risk it twice may not be wise.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, for baby number two more scheduling.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
You learn and also the lesson is that babies don't keep to grown up time.

Kevin Matthews:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your money tip. What should people do? This is great advice for anyone, not just parents.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Absolutely. Similar to the previous point, but it's being at the right spot at the right time. The way I look at that is making sure that you are properly balanced. Over the last few years, stocks have been great, and that kind of throws people out of whack. What we do is we tend to say, "Hey. Great. I'm just gonna roll with it. I'm making gains," but that's really the time that you want to go back and rebalance your portfolio, and you want to do it periodically. You want to keep those dates static versus checking in when it's a bad day on the market or just randomly when you're in the mood to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Specially, what does it mean to rebalance your portfolio? How does it suddenly get off balance?

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. It can get off balance when the market changes. For example, if you're someone who has a 50/50 portfolio, you can't to have 50% in stocks, 50% in bonds, if you're someone who's right in the middle, as stocks grow, your portfolio could be 65 or 70% versus 30% because of the growth of the market. You want to go back. That means that you're taking on more risk, so you may want to go back, look at your portfolio, and bring it back down to where it's 50/50, because that's where you should be based on your goals and your risk tolerance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. All right. Kevin, I want to talk to you about your businesses, because you kind of have a bunch of different things going on, and you're writing books, and you're making videos. Tell us more about what you do.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. At BuildingBread my main goal is to help you set, simplify, and achieve your financial goals. I do that through basic financial education, so I do the videos. I do BreadCrumbs, and I teach courses to make sure that when you're speaking with your financial advisor, when you're trying to figure it out on your own, that you can understand the situation, have a well educated situation, so that you don't feel like people are talking over you or at you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I can speak firsthand. You're a wonderful speaker and presenter, and everyone was mesmerized by what you were saying. I think you got a lot of people to really pay attention to their money and be a lot more deliberate.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, where can people find you and get in touch if they want you to come to their organization or if they want to follow you on social media?

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. You can follow me anywhere on social media @BuildingBread. I'm always active there. You can also email me at Info@BuildingBread.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much, Kevin Matthews. This has been great.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kevin had a lot of great advice. Financial Grown Up tip number one. We spend a lot of time in the personal finance space talking about planning for the future, but by no means should that divert your attention from the present, when things, like the birth of your child, are about to happen. Perspective. It is a great story to tell your kid, but take note. Kevin would not do it again. Let's try to look up from our phones more. I'm right there with you on that one. We may not even realize all the priceless thing we may be missing, and you can't buy more time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up tip number two. Just like you schedule a doctor's appointment, let's all take Kevin's advice and do a financial check up based not on when something is happening in the market, for example, but on a calendar driven base, so the decisions are based on what is best for you in a proactive way, not a reactive way, or another good time may be when you have a change in circumstance, like having a baby. I don't really do this these days, but I'm gonna think about Kevin's advice and try to be on a more regular schedule with checking in with family, financial planning, and things like that. I think it's a great thing to incorporate in all of our lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Kevin, and thanks to all of you for supporting Financial Grown Up. I am starting to get a nice amount of applications for our upcoming once a month listener as guest episodes, so keep them coming. We're gonna have some great stories, and I can't wait to hear yours. Just email us at Info@FinancialGrownUp.com. Tell us the money story and the money tip that you would share if you were chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please continue to share this show with your friends and colleagues to help bring more people into the Financial Grown Up community. Rate and review us on iTunes. That really helps us get noticed, and it is truly appreciated. Follow me on Twitter @BobbyRebell, on Instagram @BobbyRebell1, and you can find me on Facebook @BobbyRebell. Kevin truly brought som fatherly wisdom to our program. Great show, Kevin, and thanks for getting us all one step closer to being Financial Grown Ups. Financial Grown Up with Bobby Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

As a young woman in New York City, Randi Zuckerberg, author of “Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day)" was struggling financially. Her mom, knowing the financial strain, came armed with… luxury goods. Think Jimmy Choo shoes. But as Randi explains, the designer duds were part of a very intentional lesson, that put Randi right on track to being a financial grownup. 

 

In Randi’s money story you will learn:

-How Randi struggled to make ends meet on her first salary of just $28,000

-Why Randi’s mom would take her out and buy her luxury goods, but not help her with her every day expenses

-What Randi did when she literally could not afford to buy a metrocard for the NYC bus and subway

In Randi’s money lesson you will learn:

-How her mother’s strategy helped Randi find her path to financial independence

-If Randi still has all those shoes!

-The one thing Randi would change when she teachers her own children about money

In Randi’s money tip you will learn:

-Why she is paying attention to Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

-How you can learn more about Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

In My Take you will learn:

-How to manage social media envy

-The specific thing you can do with your own social media content to improve your experience and that of your friends

-Why and how you can learn more about bitcoin and cryptocurrency

Episode Links:

Learn more about Randi on her website Zuckerbergmedia.com

Get Randi’s book! Pick Three: You Can Have it All, Just Not Every Day

Learn about Cryptocurrency from Randi in this tutorial

 

Follow Randi!

Facebook Randi Zuckerberg

Instagram @RandiZuckerberg

Twitter @RandiZuckerberg

 

Also mentioned

Statement Event

Empower App

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Randi Zuckerber:
You know, I would turn to her and I would be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, my friend Randi Zuckerberg is known for a lot of things. It would take an entire podcast to name them all, so some highlights. She is a bestselling author of Dot Complicated, a Broadway actress and singer with a head star in Rock of Ages. She is the founder and CEO of Zuckerberg Media. Randi is also the force behind Sue's Tech Kitchen, she's got her weekly Sirius XM show, and oh, by the way, she created this little thing called Facebook Live. But her most recent project is Pick Three, which is a book about priorities, and with all that Randi has going on you bet she has had to get a handle on how to focus on what matters most, even if that changes every day. Here is Randi Zuckerberg.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi Zuckerberg, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thanks so much Bobbi, it's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Major congratulations, another, in this case soon-to-be bestseller, your new book Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day). We're going to talk more about that later on, but just high level, this is something you've had in your head basically for your whole adult life. Tell us briefly about the concept, and then we'll do more about the book later.

Randi Zuckerber:
Sure. Well, we're all juggling so many things. I know you and I, we both, we're entrepreneurs, we're moms, I feel like there's so much pressure on all of us to be perfect at everything we do. Especially you log onto Instagram and everyone's lives look so perfect and so amazing, and then it's easy to sit there and think, "Gosh, how come I don't have my act together? Why don't I have it all and have that perfect balance?" And what I've really started to feel over the years is that it's just, it's time for us to stop carrying so much guilt around. Nobody has it all. Nobody has perfect balance, no matter what their lives might look like on Instagram. And so when I thought about the times in my life I felt most proud of my accomplishments, it was not when I was balanced. It was when I gave myself permission to just prioritize and go for it in a few areas of my life, so that's what I'm writing about. It's called Pick Three, and it's work, sleep, family, friends, fitness - pick three.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And by the way, just to show how much I love this book and how obsessed I am, I actually made notes in the book already. You can learn more about Randy's philosophy on social media and how our lives always look better online, page 211. That was one of the things that I flagged. So that's how good her book is, I have a book full of little post-it notes. Okay, we're going to go back to the book, but I want to talk about your money story, because it's something that I actually related to, because something very similar happened when I was a young adult, in my case also in New York City. Tell us your money story, because it has to do with the way that your mother taught you to earn your own money, but yet still was supporting you in different ways.

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally. And it's funny, because I didn't really learn the lesson of this story until many years later. In the moment, it felt kind of random, and now I'm so thankful to my mom for that. So in the book I go a bit deeper into the story, but when I was right out of college I landed a job at an ad agency. I was making I think $28,000.00 a year, which to live in Manhattan, that just doesn't work. I was in this apartment that was probably supposed to be a one-bedroom but there were four of us that were living in it, and my part of the apartment was a fake wall partitioning off a corner of the living room.

Bobbi Rebell:
Probably illegal, too.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
We know all about those.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes, I'm sure it was illegal, and it was taking up an entire paycheck every month. And my mom lived about an hour outside of the city. We've always been such close friends, my mom and I, and she would come into the city to take me out for dinner because I definitely couldn't afford to go to a restaurant on my own. And then she would be like, "Let me help you out," and she would take me shopping, and she would buy me fancy shoes. Like Jimmy Choo. Like the fancy-

Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you going in the Jimmy Choos?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know. And I would be like, "Mom, that's so nice of you to buy me Jimmy Choo shoes, but can you help me pay my rent? That's where I really need help."

Bobbi Rebell:
At one point you couldn't buy a Metro Card, right?

Randi Zuckerber:
That's right. There was one month that I had to walk everywhere because I didn't budget well, and I couldn't afford the $120.00 or whatever it was at that time for a monthly Metro Card. And so I walked everywhere in Manhattan for a month. That's kind of the state of how I was living.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were you walking everywhere in the Jimmy Choos, though?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know, right? Luckily I had fancy shoes to walk in, so you know, good for that. But I would turn to her and I'd be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope." She was like, "You know, it's really important that you make it on your own, you're a professional woman. It's really important that you cover the basics of your life on your own." She's like, "But I'm here to show you what to aspire to."

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
"The reason that you're working hard and to show you that it's okay when you do make that money later in life to treat yourself, and just spend a little bit of that money on yourself."

Bobbi Rebell:
Nice. So for our listeners, what is the lesson from that? What is the takeaway? How can they apply it to their own lives?

Randi Zuckerber:
For me at the time, it definitely felt a little frustrating. It was frustrating that I could barely afford a Metro Card but I had this closet full of beautiful designer shoes. But at the end, when I do look back now on those periods of my life, I'm proud of myself for supporting myself. Even though it was hard. Even though I was barely making any money at all, I look back on those years with pride that I took care of all my own living expenses, that I made it on my own. And I actually still have those Jimmy Choo shoes in my closet as a reminder, the first big girl items that I really ever owned, and they always serve as a reminder to me that the reason that we work so hard in life is not just to accumulate wealth or status. It's so we can treat ourselves and we can treat the people we love, and we can really enjoy our lives and our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so would you do the same lesson with your own children, knowing what you know now?

Randi Zuckerber:
Maybe I would keep the receipt in the box in case they needed to return it to help pay their rent. My mom used to take-

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, did you ever try to return the shoes?

Randi Zuckerber:
No, she purposely would take the receipts home with her so I couldn't, and in those days there wasn't eBay to sell them on or things like that. But honestly, if my kids were motivated and ambitious and driven enough to think of ways to resell them, then that's great, that's teaching them an entrepreneurial lesson.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your money tip, because it's something we haven't talked about here on Financial Grownup, in part because I don't know a lot about it, and that's kind of your point. What is your money tip?

Randi Zuckerber:
So my money tip is to make sure that you're not just focusing all of your effort on learning about the systems that are already in place. Make sure that you're spending some time thinking about the new financial trends that are going to be coming out in the next few years. Specifically I think the biggest trend that's going to hit this industry is cryptocurrency and blockchain. I know I've personally spent a lot of time over the past two years learning about this space and educating myself, and I think it's so important for women especially to learn about this space, because right now only about 2% of cryptocurrency is owned and traded by women. And ladies, what's the use of catching up with our financial knowledge over here if we're then just going to be completely left behind in ten years on the next new thing that's making all of these new millionaires? I don't know about you guys, I don't want to be left out of the next thing that's making all these millionaires, so I think it's really important, even if you're not investing in this space, to at least understand it enough to be able to participate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where is the best place people can learn more about it?

Randi Zuckerber:
I love listening to a lot of podcasts. I actually am so passionate about educating women that I literally just sat in my closet with a microphone this week and recorded a two-hour introduction to Bitcoin and Blockchain that I'm about to release. So I'll definitely give you more information on that, and it's specifically designed to teach women the basics of crypto.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. So now we have where we can go, I will make sure to put the link into the show notes for everyone. So that's your gift to our listeners, thank you so much, Randi. This is great. Okay, so now we get back to what I really want to talk about. So I've got this book here with all of these ... I almost ran out of post-it notes, because I have so many post-it notes in the book, and we have to keep it short because this is a short podcast. But it's basically about being lopsided and being okay with that. And that's almost how you got into college, was just saying, "I'm not going to apologize for not being balanced."

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally, well I think, and I'm sure, Bobbi, when you think about the things in your life you're most proud of, the things you hope we're alive to tell our great-grandkids about, each of us have three or four things on that list that we're super proud of. It's probably not times in your life that you were super well-balanced. For me, that list right now is completing a marathon, singing on Broadway, being part of Facebook, and having my two children, and not one of those four things happened when I had balance in my life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
All of those things happened when I really allowed myself to just go for it and be super lopsided and prioritize a few areas in my life at one time. And so I want to give especially women out there permission to pick three. Pick a few things in your life that you want to prioritize, because there will be other times and other phases to pick other things and round out your life. But just give yourself the permission to go for it and be excellent in whatever you want to do without the guilt.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. One of my favorite areas was when you talk about quick fixes if you're feeling exhausted, and I say that because this book is also very practical, because people feel overwhelmed and there are very specific solutions in the book. Even at the end there's worksheets so that people can make it applicable to their own lives and really make it specific and actionable.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you, well you know, I live in the real world. In an ideal world we'd all be getting a lot of sleep every night, and going to the gym, and spending time with our children every day, and doing all of these things, but at the end of the day we all live in the real world, and I know that there's some days that you just cannot pick sleep. Your kids are sick, you have a deadline at work, there's something going on, you have an early plane to catch, so I tried to also, while encouraging people to pick different areas, also tried to give some hacks to actually get around it and still function in your life if you can't pick that one area.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's three, and the five things that you're picking three from are sleep, work, friends, family and fitness, and the great thing about the book is you break down each one.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes. I try to break it down, and I also really tried to interview a mixture of people across all ages and walks of life. Because if you're in the position that you can pick which areas of your life you want to prioritize then you're in a real state of privilege, that everything in your life is going so well that you can choose. There are a lot of people out there who have life circumstances where they just can't choose what they want to focus on. Life picks for them. And so I wanted to make sure that all different people are represented.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi, where can people find you and learn more about everything you're up to, including Pick Three?

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much, I have been known to be available on a few social media channels.

Bobbi Rebell:
A few.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yup, [inaudible 00:13:14] Facebook, and one's owned by Facebook. But yes, you can find me on Facebook, on Instagram and Twitter, I'm @randizuckerberg, and then Pick Three is available on Amazon or any of your favorite bookstores. I love indie bookstores and promoting them, so go pick it up at a cool indie bookstore near you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all, and keep in touch.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much Bobbi, this is awesome, love your podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, I think we all have a good sense of how Randi stays so grounded despite literally being on the go all the time. I have been personal witness to that. Prioritize and keep perspective.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: You may have noticed that one area of Randi's book really hit me. All of our lives look like so much fun online. So many of us, myself included, have felt a little wistful when we see photos and videos of friends who always seem to be vacationing while in the perfect outfit, and going to a fantastic concert where of course they get to see Beyonce and hang out with her and Jay-Z backstage. Just kidding, but only about part of that. But we are all actually usually happy that they're having fun, it's not necessarily competitive, but still. Remember, it is a curated version of their life. Real life can't be edited, and filters don't work outside of the digital world. Randi's advice that really resonates with me? Flip that back to what you can control, and be a little more intentional about what you post, about the image that you put out there to other people. Don't just post your own perfect moments, try to be more authentic with your social media, and maybe we'll all get the hint and be a little more real.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's all go out and learn about Bitcoin. I said learn, not invest, though you can if it's right for you. The truth is, as Randi said, we may be missing a big opportunity. I always think of famous investors like Warren Buffett who say they don't invest in anything they don't understand. So let's understand and make a decision from a point of understanding and information. I was recently at a retreat called Statement Event, it was women thought leaders, a very small group of us, about 17. We had dinner with a CEO of a company called Empower, and he asked this group of all women how many of us talked about Bitcoin as an investment option for our followers or listeners. The room got silent. He asked, had we really investigated? Nope. I'm going to check out Randi's tutorial, and I will leave the link for you guys as well. Let me know what you think. Make sure to pick up your copy of her new book, Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day) and write a review for Randi. Authors love reviews.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. The show has been growing, so please keep sharing on social media, writing reviews on iTunes aka Apple Podcast, and subscribing if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a money story that you want to share? Maybe a great money tip? We are starting to have listeners as guests once a month, so to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and just tell us what money story and money tip you would share if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, Facebook I am at Bobbi Rebell. Randi Zuckerberg really nailed it in this episode, helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

When Liz Thames and her husband adopted their dog Gracie they went on a spending bender buying up countless toys and treats for their new baby. But instead their precious pet taught them a lesson in values that helped shape the parents and family they became. 

In Liz’s money story you will learn:

-The story of how Liz and her husband adopted their first pet, Gracie

-The costs involved in adopting a dog

-How much money they spent before getting the dog, and what they bought

-How Gracie reacted to all the toys and treats

In Liz’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to figure out what you really need to buy for your family

-How marketing can confuse us and create a false need

-The importance of waiting to find out what is truly needed during a life change, such as having a child

-How to fight back against a scarcity mindset

-Specific tips on how to be frugal like Liz, including using social media as a tool

In Liz’s money tip you will learn:

-How she was able to take yoga classes by bartering

-The specific language and approach if you want to barter with a business

In my take you will learn:

-Why you should consider selling your used baby products, especially big ticket items like strollers

-My personal story of selling my son’s stroller

-My take on pet insurance

Episode Links

Get Liz Thames Book Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living. 

Learn more about Liz on her website Frugalwoods.com

Follow Liz!

Twitter @frugalwoods

Facebook Frugalwoods

Instagram Frugalwoods

---

Transcription

Bobbi:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message comes from Transfer Wise. The cheaper way to send money internationally. Transfer Wise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come up sending money abroad. Test it out for free at Transfer Wise.com slash podcast or download the app.

Liz:
We probably spent I don't know several hundred dollars on dog stuff which is more than we spent on either of our children by the way before they were born. So it was once she came into our lives we could then learn what she really needed and we could calibrate our purchases to her actual needs which apparently was a kitchen towel.

Bobbi:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, [inaudible 00:01:02] and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi:
Hey everyone. Pet lovers this is especially for you and if you're like me, your pets are like your children. There's nothing you wouldn't do for them. But there are things that you shouldn't do for them including overspending. Liz Thames is the author of Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living. And in fact many of her fans knew her only as Mrs. Frugalwoods until recently. But as you will learn Liz was not always as frugal as she is now. Here is Liz Thames, aka Mrs. Frugalwoods.

Bobbi:
Liz Thames aka Mrs. Frugalwoods, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Liz:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi:
And congratulations are in order for your new book, Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living. Did I get that right?

Liz:
You did.

Bobbi:
Okay. All right. We're going to talk more about the book but I want to hear more about your life in Vermont and your money story which has to do with something near and dear to my heart which is of course our pets.

Liz:
Yes. A number of years ago my husband and I decided we were ready to adopt a dog. We had wanted a dog for years but we'd been renters and we had moved around a lot. I'd been in grad school. Not a good time to get a dog because when you get a dog, you need to think about who's going to care for them all day long. When you're moving around and you're renting an apartment and you're not home because you're in grad school and working full time in order to get free tuition. You don't really have the time to care for a pet. It was a big decision for us to finally come to that moment where we owned a home and we felt like we had the time and the money to dedicate to having a dog. We adopted a gray hound which is a rescue dog. It's a really frugal way to get a pet and it's also a wonderful way of giving a pet a new home.

Liz:
So, gray hounds are-

Bobbi:
By the way, there are some costs when you adopt a pet.

Liz:
Oh absolutely. Yes. There are ... It's like with children. There's just kind of the costs just keep on going but it's yes, so you do pay a fee when you adopt a dog. Then you need to think about their long term health care as well. One of the things that we thought when we first adopted our dog was that she needed everything. We had waited years to get this dog; we were going to lavish her with all of the wonderful dog things. We went to PetSmart and just cruised the aisles and bought you know "Oh we need this. We need this" like impulse shop for this dog and bought all these toys. All of these kongs. You know what those are? You put peanut butter in it.

Bobbi:
What's a kong?

Liz:
It's like this round thing that you put peanut butter or treats in and the dog-

Bobbi:
Are dogs supposed to eat peanut butter? I don't know.

Liz:
Purportedly they stick their snout in it and lick it out. I don't know. I have like four[crosstalk 00:04:04]

Bobbi:
Are they supposed to eat peanut butter? I don't know.

Liz:
I don't know. They told us she could.

Bobbi:
Okay.

Liz:
But our dog had zero use for all of this stuff. She looked at it and was like no thanks and took a red kitchen towel out of our kitchen and said, this is my toy and she decided that she really didn't need a lot in life and that was a great lesson for us. That we kind of had bought into this consumer notion that in order to be good dog parents, we needed to provide all of this stuff for her. When in reality all she needed was a safe, warm space and lots and lots of walks and play time outside. It was just so illuminating for us that uh wow, we really bought into this marketing trope of what it means to have a dog.

Bobbi:
It reminds me of when people buy all these toys for babies. Maybe toddlers let's say and then all the toddler wants to do is play in the box that the toys came in.

Liz:
Oh a 100 percent. Yes. My daughter the other day got in a box and was like, "It's a boat". "I'm sailing down the river". This is an empty cardboard box. Just like excellent. I am really glad you have that imagination and I'm really glad I didn't buy any toys for you.

Bobbi:
Totally. So how much do you think you spent on toys and unnecessary just stuff for your- what's your dog's name?

Liz:
Our dog was Gracie better known as frugal hound and she sadly passed away earlier this year.

Bobbi:
Oh. I'm so sorry.

Liz:
Thank you. But it's wonderful to talk about her and to realize sort of the important role that she had in our lives. She was our first child and she really taught us what we needed to know about parenting which is that you do not need to buy a ton of stuff. It's also true that we bought things preemptively before she was even part of our lives. We probably spent to your question I don't know several hundred dollars on dog stuff which is more than we spent on either of our children by the way before they were born. Once she came into our lives we could then learn what she really needed and we could calibrate our purchases to her actual needs which apparently was a kitchen towel.

Bobbi:
And it's interesting because you actually learned from Gracie how to not over prepare and buy in advance for your children, your human children, when they came along. In a way she taught you a good lesson in budget parenting.

Liz:
Really.

Bobbi:
So what is the lesson then for our listeners and how can this apply not just to pet owners but to everyone?

Liz:
We are surrounded almost every single day by messages that tell us we need more stuff. There is always something more to buy for whatever phase of life you're in. Whether you have pets or you have kids or you don't have either of those things but you have a great interest in hiking or rock climbing or whatever it might be. There will always be this huge list of things that we're told that we need. I think marketing really makes us feel as though we need to have those things in order to be happy and to be fulfilled to be able to do the things we want to do with our lives. What I've realized over the years is that there really is no way to buy happiness. There is no way to sort own everything that you need to own. As soon as you reach that point, you'll realize there's more stuff or you need newer stuff or bigger stuff.

Liz:
This applies to everything from houses and cars all the way down to the clothes that we wear and the food that we buy. I think when you can sort of step outside of that consumer carousel and really identify what it is that you actually need on a daily basis. You'll realize it's quite a bit less than we're told we need.

Bobbi:
You also it seems learned that you can wait. We live in such a culture of abundance here in the United States that had you waited to buy the dog toys and evaluated whether you need them, it's not like they wouldn't have been there. There's no fear that it won't be there if you don't buy in advance. The same thing applies to children and for ourselves. We don't necessarily need to stock up a head of time. We can almost like the stores now do with as needed inventory. We can almost act that way for ourselves.

Liz:
So true and I think we often have this scarcity mindset that we won't have an [inaudible 00:08:22] we won't be able to provide for kids or our pets or our families. When in reality, we probably have plenty and we probably can make do with what we already own. My other favorite thing to do is source things used. Used cars, used furniture, used stuff for my kids. You can save 50, 75 percent sometimes 90 percent off of what something would have originally cost just by getting it used. There are so many sources right now of used things. Craig's List of course everybody knows about. Buy nothing groups. Buy and sell groups on Facebook. Just talking with your neighbors and friends. Finding hand me downs. Of course finding fantastic things on the side of the road which I advise caution but really can be done to great effect.

Liz:
Essentially looking at ways to not buy new. This not only saves you money but is environmentally friendly. It takes away a lot of that paralysis by analysis that I get when I'm looking at Amazon and reading 500 reviews. Like, "I don't know which toddler sippy cup to buy". If you just get it used, you kind of remove all of that stress and time from your search.

Bobbi:
And for your money tip Liz you're going to help us all live healthier for less.

Liz:
Yes. It's often possible to exercise for free by bartering or trading with your exercise studio. When I lived in Cambridge outside of Boston, I volunteered at the front desk of my yoga studio in exchange for free yoga classes. This was something I didn't realize was possible until I tried to save as much as I could every month and realized I was spending tons and tons of money on yoga classes. I think it's easy for us to look at exercise and think, "Oh I'm happy to spend on that because it's a good thing". And it is a good thing but you can often do it for free and I've heard from readers who have accomplished this at Crossfit studios, Pilates, ballet just about any type of exercise that the studio is often looking for this opportunity to make a barter or a trade. I used to take out the trash, sweep the floors, work at the front desk. Free yoga.

Bobbi:
How much do you estimate you saved?

Liz:
Doing that it was thousands of dollars. It's another great example of how costs really compound over the course of a year. You might only be spending 50 dollars, a 100 dollars, 200 dollars a month on exercising but when you think about how much that is over the course of a year and how much that money could do for you if you instead invested it or used it in a wiser way. It really becomes pretty profound. When you start to apply this to every line item in your budget, then you really can start to see astronomical savings.

Bobbi:
How did you approach the yoga studio because a lot of people might say well that's great but that's kind of a weird conversation. To be a client there and just sort of say, "Oh can I take out the trash and go to yoga for free"? How did that actually happen?

Liz:
Fortunately for me they had a poster up that advertised this program and so I was able to just email the email address on the poster but I know that this type of work study program often exists in studios. You can just ask, "Do you have any type of work study program where I could volunteer in exchange for classes"? And if they say no nothing is lost. They've said no. If they say yes, fabulous. You've now got an opportunity to get free classes.

Bobbi:
All great. I love that idea. Tell us more about your book and where people can find you.

Liz:
The book is Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living and it is a memoir about the financial journey that essentially I've been on and that ultimately led me to living on a homestead in Vermont. You can find the book on Amazon, at Barnes and Noble, at any local bookstore anywhere that books are sold.

Bobbi:
And where can people find you? Social media, website all that good stuff?

Liz:
Sure. So it's all Frugalwoods across the board. My website is: Frugalwoods.com and you can find me on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook at Frugalwoods.

Bobbi:
Liz you are wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us.

Liz:
Oh thank you for having me.

Bobbi:
Okay everyone. Liz totally delivered in this episode especially with taking the lessons from buying habits with Gracie and then taking those lessons and applying them when she became a parent to humans. Financial grownup tip number one. Liz talked about buying used stuff for your kid. Don't forget to sell stuff. For example, we were gifted an incredible and very pricey stroller when my son was born. We kept it in good shape and when he outgrew it, we posted it in a Facebook group and we were able to sell it to a local person for more than half the original cost which was still several hundred dollars. It pays off. Financial grownup tip number two. A word about pets. They are expensive. While you can easily avoid luxury pet wardrobes if that's your thing, that's fine but you can avoid it. It's a choice.

Bobbi:
You cannot neglect their health. Make sure you have a very big budget for that. I can take my Morkie in for a checkup and a routine vaccine and walk out with a very large bill. I also want to talk about pet insurance. It is also very expensive and can be limited in its coverage. In many cases it is not something that makes financial sense if you do the math. My family decided to have it for our Morkie for one reason. We never wanted to make a health decision about her after consulting our bank account.

Bobbi:
Pet health care expenses when they do need care beyond the routine, can put owners in a very tough positions. You may be asked to pay let's say a 1000 dollars for a bunch of tests. How do you say no? Then the tests show the pet needs a procedure; another bill. Then therapy and so on. It adds up and our pets are priceless but our money is finite. At a certain point you could be put in the position of saying, "Is so many more months worth this many more dollars"? Well the answer is usually going to be yes because we're human and we love our pets. The reality is that decision could very easily derail other financial needs, obligations and plans.

Bobbi:
If you get a pet, research pet insurance and make an informed decision. It is expensive. Usually it's only affordable if you get it when your pet is young. It's worth being proactive early on.

Bobbi:
All right. If you have not heard yet, I am very excited about this. We are going to start having one guest a month. Be a listener. If you want to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and tell us what money story and what money tip you would share if you were chosen. If you have not already, please subscribe and help us spread the word by sharing on social media. I am at Bobbi Rebell at Twitter, on Instagram I am at Bobbi Rebell1 and go to BobbiRebell.com forward slash financial grownup podcast to learn more about the show and to sign up for mailing list so you can hear about things like how to be a guest on the show.

Bobbi:
I hope that you enjoyed Liz's story and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Comedian Catie Lazarus does not just host Employee of the Month, she also runs the business that supports it. Being the boss means setting realistic expectations for her team, and dealing with those who aren’t on board with her mission. 

In Catie’s money story you will learn:

-The real reason Catie started “Employee of the Month"

-The behind-the-scenes challenges of running a live show/podcast

-The employer side of pay negotiation

-Why Catie is talking about lobsters and diners and how that relates to deciding the right compensation

In Catie’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to evaluate if your pay expectations are realistic for the company or organization that you want to work for or if you need to rethink your approach

-How to tell the difference between being unfairly underpaid, and being paid what the employer can afford

-The benefits of being flexible with your compensation, if the position aligns with your goals

In Catie’s money tip you will learn:

-Her tips on negotiating

-How to navigate the implicit and explicit biases in the work place

-How Catie incorporates her degree in clinical psychology into her business decisions and negotiations

-Strategies to use statistics in your negotiations

In my take you will learn:

-Why and how to take the big picture into account when asking for a raise

-The importance of keeping up your work quality and attitude even if you are turned down for a raise or promotion

-Why it is ok to do something a second or even a third time until you get it right. 

-It’s not about perfection but it is about doing your best, and presenting the best product. 

Episode Links

EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH https://www.employeeofthemonthshow.com/

Follow Catie and Employee of the Month!

Instagram Catie_Lazarus

Twitter @catielazarus

Facebook EOTM

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from Transferwise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. Transferwise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Catie Lazarus:
Well, I paid him and I never used him again. Fast forward, after that show, a very big corporation asked recommendations for audio engineers. So, of course, I recommended all of the people who hadn't asked for that, who had seen rightly. It's not that they devalued themselves, it's that they showed perspective and that, I saw, as a really important trait when recommending someone to someone else.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Friends, people often ask me, "How do I get these incredible and, often, really high-profile guests?" Well, the answer is simple. Perseverance and having high standards. The interview you are about to hear is the third attempt made to get this woman on for you guys. She's amazing. I had to have her on. First, we had a last minute rescheduling because she lost her voice. Then, we actually did tape an episode but she wasn't happy. She has a really high bar and she wanted to re-tape the show. High standards, my friends. Do it till you get it right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Catie Lazarus is a comedian who does not come to anything with less than her best. She joked that she is not a financial grownup but you're going to see, she absolutely is. Catie is running a business. She is making tough money decisions. You may know her as the host of Employee of the Month. It is a live show about working that is also a podcast. She interviews everyone from John Stewart to Lin-Manuel Miranda, Maya Rudolph and, famously, Jon Hamm. Here is Catie Lazarus.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Catie Lazarus, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Catie Lazarus:
Thank you, Bobbi, I'm one of your biggest fans or, at least, I am a huge fan of yours.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm a huge fan of yours.

Catie Lazarus:
I was so thrilled when you came to the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your new Employee of the Month. Taped live podcast.

Catie Lazarus:
Exactly. Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Celebrity studied extravaganza.

Catie Lazarus:
You know it's funny, 'cause I've had everyone from FBI agents and taxidermists and the lice lady and a former pick-pocket to, as you know, John Stewart and Rachel Maddow and Jon Hamm and Maya Rudolph and some of the others, so, it does range and that's, I think, what's nice about having this One-On-One podcast, as you know?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Catie Lazarus:
As well as these live shows where you get to see an variety of guests, as you did.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, by the way, it is a beautiful spring day in New York City and I hear the birds chirping behind you because you're a woman on the go so you're taping outside, which is kind of awesome.

Catie Lazarus:
I want to apologize because I know that the sound quality may not be as good because I'm outside, however, once you hear my voice, it actually might be better.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's all good. It's all good and you brought a really good money story. Tell us.

Catie Lazarus:
So, I started this show, Employee of the Month, 'cause I could not figure out how to get a job writing for The Weather Channel. I got hired to be an assistant on A Bee Movie, and I don't mean a B-grade movie, I mean a movie about bees by a very famous comedian and, at the last minute, the studio went with so-and-so's niece. You know I'd have these-

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course. Of course.

Catie Lazarus:
I was walking to the subway, kind of thing. And so I started my show to understand, not just how people break in, but how did they sustain careers. And you're here in New York and maybe this is a good way to say, "When you're starting out on your own, you may not be able to afford an office." Even a wee workspace. You may work from home. It may be DIY and that certainly was the case with my- [crosstalk 00:04:07].

Bobbi Rebell:
It's about being authentic, Catie, you're authentic.

Catie Lazarus:
Well, what I was also going to say on that note is, I made a joke with you earlier. I said, "When you walk into a diner, you don't order the lobster unless you wanna, you know, figure out what salmonella tastes like or find yourself ... maybe you don't wanna go home. Maybe you don't have a place to stay so you would order a lobster in a diner so that you would end up in the hospital and that would be the place you stay that night."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So your money story. I need to put you back on track, Catie. Okay. Let's go to your money story. Your money story is about people hitting you up for money. You're this struggling comedian.

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. So my money story is that you want what you want, but you also need to see what's in front of you. And so when people have come to me demanding wages that I just simply couldn't offer, it was as if they had walked into a diner and demanded a lobster.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what do you mean? They were asking to borrow money or you were hiring them? What was going on?

Catie Lazarus:
I would be hiring people and they would want ... this would happen very rarely, but it happened. It happened with a couple audio engineers where they wanted money that they deserved to get if they are working at a corporation. They deserved to get it, maybe, even if they worked at a non-profit so they were-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so it wasn't a judgment of the value of their work, it was a judgment of your budget?

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. And they're just simply ... It is what it is. It's nothing personal. I wish it was bigger. I wish that I made money too.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what would happen when this would ha ... I mean is there one incident that stands out?

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. Because I have to say that most of the people who worked on my show worked on my show forever and that, I will tell you at the end, why. So I have a really great team in place. But, on occasion, I would hire someone because I needed someone last minute and this happened with one specific person, a guy who came in and he was from a very small town and I always ask before I hire someone, I say, "What do you want to get out of this?" Because I know from my own experience that sometimes working at organizations that don't have as big a name, don't have as much clout or cachet, you, actually, get to do more work and you get to really learn on the job, which is a positive. And I asked him and he said, "I really wanna be part of something small." But the truth was is that he didn't. So he wanted to get paid really well.

Catie Lazarus:
Well, I paid him and I never used him again but, fast forward, after that show, a very big corporation asked recommendations for audio engineers so, of course, I recommended all of the people who hadn't asked for that, who had seen rightly. It's not that they devalued themselves, it's that they showed perspective. And that, I saw, as a really important trait when recommending someone to someone else.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because you have to be realistic about what the budget is for the organization that you're working for. It's not that you're not worth it, it's that this is what this is the project is. Yeah, so what's the lesson then from this story?

Catie Lazarus:
So I think the lesson is to look at what you're going into and ask yourself, "What do I want and what can I get?" And if the answer is, "I want to make money." Well, then you should probably go to an institution that has a track record of making money. If you want to be part of a really creative, artistic show that has tremendous potential for learning a skill, for perfecting a skill, for having ownership, an agency, all of those things, my show has always delivered. And that's why 99.9% of my staff has been with me for so long. My team, really.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awe. That's so great.

Catie Lazarus:
Yeah, and they're fabulous and we work together versus working for me. Now, if you're going to a bank, I'm not gonna name any, but if you're going to a bank or you're going to another kind of corporation, there is a sense that you work for someone.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Catie Lazarus:
Whereas, I treat my show as I work with you, even if you're my intern. You work with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I wanna talk about your money tip. It's, sort of, the flip side of this because you're talking about when you're on the receiving end of someone trying to negotiate with you but you also, in your business now, are constantly being in the position of having to negotiate for yourself in an environment that can be very precarious.

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. And so the hardest part, I find, as a creative person or anyone who's independent and particularly in a culture now where everyone has to be a brand even if you're a peace activist, on some level, you, somehow, have to find yourself as a brand. Pro-peace is not enough. With that in mind, I was short changing myself and I'm talking about with corporations and companies, not with other peers. And part of the challenge is is that there are implicit and explicit biases which the Me Too movement and Black Lives Matter and all of ... Pay Parity, all of these things have really shed tremendous light on it. I'm so thrilled that people are speaking out and having the courage to do so because it's really hard. How do you negotiate if women, typically, make less than men? How, as a female, do I go in and negotiate?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So your money tip is about how to negotiate?

Catie Lazarus:
So I decided that I was gonna try to be jovial about it and the reason that I chose to be jovial, meaning humorous, it's still serious. You need to get paid.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, how much you get paid is a very serious thing.

Catie Lazarus:
Well, the approach. Exactly what you were saying, Bobbi, is that you want to not make it personal so it's not that that person is intentionally trying to be biased against me any more than I'm intentionally trying to be biased against someone else. So, instead of making it about us, I would make a joke about now women are statistically paid less than men, so I wanna make sure that neither of us falls prey to it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you're calling them out.

Catie Lazarus:
I'm calling it out. Instead of-

Bobbi Rebell:
Calling it out. Yes.

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. So I'm calling the problem out versus the person.

Bobbi Rebell:
So can you go through an example of how you use this? What kind of language would you use?

Catie Lazarus:
A lot of times companies will say, "You know, you're gonna to get a lot of exposure if you go with us." So let's say, we're gonna hire you. You may or may not get exposure from that as anyone who's actually has experience in the business knows, including myself, and that's really up to you, whether that's what you're going in to get. If I'm going in because I'd like to pay my rent, pay for the dentist, what money people do when they go for major jobs. In that scenario, it's okay for me to joke about it a little bit and bring up the subject just like I said. So I stick with the facts which is that women are statistically paid less and, in fact, whether you're a woman of color becomes even more of an issue. So I stick with the facts and then I just make a very light joke about, "I don't want either of us to fall prey to it." Part of the reason I do that is so that I don't have to undermine myself either because I also carry these biases.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. So have you changed, recently, in how you approach people when you hire them? Are you looking at people differently?

Catie Lazarus:
Absolutely, in that I really strive ... I'm coming from [inaudible 00:10:44] a doctor in clinical psych. So I think that there's a part of me that always strives to be better at being mindful of who gets hired and on my talk show, as you know, I have as many female guests and LGBDT, I have guests of all ages and careers and all of this reflects on a desire to see the world as larger than myself. Even if it's harder to get certain kinds of guests 'cause I may not know as many people in that age range or whatever it is or that field or whatever the different points are that create true inclusivity.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I just want to have one more moment with you to have you tell us a little bit more about the show, Employee of the Month. What's next with it and tell us where people can hear it.

Catie Lazarus:
We're, actually, going to be going on the road, so if people go to employeeofthemonthshow.com, you can find out if we'll be in a major city near you. You can also listen to the podcast One-On-One and I highly encourage you to go and look through the back files because there's everyone from Lin-Manuel Miranda to Jon Hamm and Maya Rudolph on my show and it's a lot of fun. Even Cynthia Nixon before she ran for governor.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know. That's interesting. That's for another show. Alright, and on social media, where can people follow you, be in touch with you, all that good stuff?

Catie Lazarus:
I'm on Instagram and the Twitter and Employee of the Month has a Facebook page which Putin may or may not also be checking out. So you can go to @employeeofthemonth and Catie is spelled with a C, C-A-T-I-E and then Lazarus, L-A-Z-A-R-U-S.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're wonderful, Catie Lazarus. Thank you so much.

Catie Lazarus:
Thank you, Bobbi, as are you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Here's my take on what Catie had to say. Financial grownup tip number one. When you go to your boss and ask for a raise, be mindful of the economics of the business. You may be worth more but only to another company that has a bigger budget. Sometimes, the company you work for, actually, cannot afford to pay you more or there are business reasons they choose not to, even if you deserve it. If you make the choice to stay, own that decision and do the best job you can. Don't be that person who complains all day but keeps showing up. You know that person. We've all had them at work. I've had them at every job. You just think, "If this place is so bad, leave." Put a smile on and make it work. But it's also okay to leave for a place that can afford to pay you more. Your employer may not be happy to lose you, but the truth is, they probably know that they can't afford to keep you. They will probably wish you well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Sometimes, consider a do-over when you aren't happy with the results. Not only did Catie ask to re-tape her episode, I, myself, have gone to guests and asked them to re-tape their episodes or to come up with more original or compelling stories and money tips to share if I'm not happy with the show or the plan for the show they're going to be on. It can be uncomfortable, at first. But every single time, it results in a better show, a happier guest and, often, a thank you for making the effort to make them sound and come off even better than other shows.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is a wrap on the Catie Lazarus episode. If you want to be a guest on the show and have high standards, like Catie, write to us at info@financialgrownup.com to be considered for our new, once-a-month, listener episodes. Include, in the email, the money story that you wanna share, the lesson and, of course, a very original and compelling everyday money tip. Be sure to subscribe, if you have not already, so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and for more on the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. I am such a Catie Lazarus fan. I can't wait for the next Employee of the Month podcast. Make sure you subscribe to that, as well. She is the best and thanks to Catie for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Chris Browning, host of the Popcorn Finance podcast got a clean bill of health for his wife after a hospital stay a few years ago. But despite having been patients there before, a billing mixup left his credit score needing intensive care. 

Chris’ Money Story:

Chris Browning:
Yes so you know, unfortunately my wife, she had to go in for surgery and which is never a good thing. So we went to the hospital, everything got taken care of. She's all well now. We figured we'd just get a bill in the mail, that's how most medical bills come, they just send you something in the mail.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did they do any paperwork while you were at the hospital? Did you give them insurance information? What actually transpired at the hospital? Because you do usually fill out some stuff.

Chris Browning:
Yeah, so leading up, you sit in the finance office and they have you sign a couple of waivers and disclosures. And they say. "Alright, let's see your insurance". They took a copy and they said, "Okay we'll bill you". And that's literally all they told me. No further information other than that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the hospital was in Network? Do you remember?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was an in Network hospital.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were trying to be in Network, okay.

Chris Browning:
Yes, so we did everything we thought we were supposed to do and we visited the hospital before and the billing seemed to work fine, so you know we didn't even think twice about it. It felt normal.

Bobbi Rebell:
This might be important later on. You were in the system having visited the hospital before?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was a local hospital.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Chris Browning:
So we just thought, we'll get a bill in the mail like we have in the past. We waited around, nothing came after a couple of months and to be honest, I kind of just forgot about it, because it had been so long and it just never showed up.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would totally forget about it.

Chris Browning:
Yeah, after two months, you assume you would receive it. After that, life just goes on. You do other things. You live life. And so, I have this habit of checking my credit score, because one of my credit cards on their app, they allow you to check your credit score for free, and they'll update it like every seven days. And so I was just taking a look at it, and I noticed my credit score had dropped like a crazy amount. It had dropped about 150 points. That was very alarming, to say the least. And so I decided to take a look in my credit report. And I went to freecreditreport.com. I saw this like delinquency mark and I was like, that's strange. I remember paying all my bills.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Chris Browning:
And when I looked into it, it just gave me just a random number. It didn't really give me a lot of details.

Bobbi Rebell:
Like a phone number?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was a random phone number from a ... it was an area code I'd never seen before. And so I gave the phone number a call, and then they gave me the details. They said this is from the hospital that we had visited, and they say you didn't pay your bill and it's been turned over to a collection agency. And this was the collection agency that I was speaking with.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Chris Browning:
I was just shocked and I was like, well how did this happen? And they have limited information.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sure.

Chris Browning:
And all they'd allow me to do at the time was they said, "Would you like to set up a payment plan?". And I was like, well yeah I want to get this cleared up. But I said, "Let me call the hospital first".

Bobbi Rebell:
Well right, and how do you even know they're legit. I mean they're saying they have the debt, but what exactly happened? Because you'd never heard from the hospital.

Chris Browning:
Exactly, so I was a little hesitant. I don't want to give you money just yet. So I called the hospital and got hold of billing department and I asked them. I said, "I see this delinquency on my credit report. They're saying that our bill was into collections, but we never received a bill in the mail". They said, "Well yeah, we mailed it out to you". And I said, "Well we haven't got anything for months". So they checked their system and they said, "Well here's the address we have for you", and it was the wrong address. They had transposed the numbers around, and who knows where the bill actually went.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is crazy because two things. First of all, you had been to this hospital before, so presumably you were in the system correctly at some point because you had paid previous bills. And number two, any company, any person, we should all do it, but certainly a company, a hospital, should have a return address. So if they were going to the wrong address, you would think that they would return the mail, and the hospital would receive it back.

Chris Browning:
Exactly. You think they'd be some type of notification for them to know that whatever they mailed out just came back.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they never called you.

Chris Browning:
They never called.

Bobbi Rebell:
But presumably your phone number is on there.

Chris Browning:
Exactly, you'd think if they hadn't been paid all this time, they'd have at least called to follow up. But no. I think maybe it's just the sheer volume they deal with. They don't even try, they just immediately send it to collections after the time period had passed.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then what did you do?

Chris Browning:
So after I verified with them what collection agency they actually sent the bill to, and it matched the information they I had received from the number I had called, I called the collection agency back, because at that point, the hospital said there's nothing we can do. It's been sold to collections, you know it's out of our hands. I called the number back, I spoke with them. I said, "Yes, we want to take care of this". And I said, "If we pay this off, is there a way that this could be removed from my credit report, because it's a huge mark on my credit?".

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's also not your fault.

Chris Browning:
Exactly. Because I explained to them, I said we just never received the bill. I didn't know what type of pushback I was going to get. If they were going to say no. But surprisingly they said, Yes. If you set up, if you agree to a payment plan now, they gave me the total amount. It matched what the hospital said it should be. They said, if you pay this off, we will contact the credit bureaus and have the delinquency removed, because you've taken care of this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course. That's the least they can do. Did the hospital take any ownership of the fact that they had not followed up?

Chris Browning:
Not at all.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's disappointing.

Chris Browning:
They basically just said, sorry, nothing we can do. It's out of our hands and it was on me to take care of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's foolish on their part because generally, and I assume this was the case when you send something to a collection agency, they're only getting a fraction of what the bill was. So they lost out for not bothering and not having the right systems in place to check with you. Presumably the doctor could follow up with you and your wife, so they had contact information that was correct in some part of the system.

Chris Browning:
You'd think that if they knew they're going to lose money, that it'd be in their best interest to do a little more follow-ups, spend a little more time, but no, they just I guess, just dump it off.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, they lost money too. So that maybe there isn't the right stakeholder at the hospital that took ownership of the fact that that bill was not being paid for that reason.

Chris Browning:
Exactly.

Chris’ Money Lesson:

Chris Browning:
I would say first of all, make sure that you follow up on all your medical bills. Even if you think that the office is going to take care of it the way they should, you just never know. You could end up in the situation like this. So I do acknowledge that I could have called and followed up after a month of not hearing anything back.

Bobbi Rebell:
But maybe the insurance you were in Network, so if I was doing something in Network, I would have assumed that if I didn't get a bill, the insurance covered it.

Chris Browning:
I made that assumption too, but I think after this now, I'm going to be on the safe side.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Chris Browning:
I'm going to give them a call just to follow up if it's been like an unusually long amount of time since I haven't got any communication from them. Just to eliminate any issues or this ever happening again.

Chris Browning:
And the second thing I would say, check your credit score. I was really fortunate that that was a habit that I had picked up. You know we had been paying off some debts so I was in the habit of looking at my credit score to see how it was changing. That's the only reason I knew that there was any type of issue is because I saw my credit score had dropped drastically, and that triggered me to look at my credit report, and that's where I found the error, and I was able to finally take care of it.

Chris’ Money Tip:

Chris Browning:
So my money tip would be check with your credit card company, if you do have a credit card. Or even some banks. A lot of them offer access to your credit score and some even your credit report directly through their website or their mobile app. And so it's really simple. It's free a lot of the time and it's just a really convenient tool to have with you, and whether you're looking for errors or you just want to kind of track your progress. I think it's a really great incentive that these banks are offering to let you stay on top of your credit and your finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
And specifically, how often do you do that?

Chris Browning:
I've slowed down. I was a little obsessive. I was checking like every day at one point. Now I'm on a once per month basis. I'll log in, just kind of look and see how things are going, just I want to keep the practice up. I don't want to get too comfortable and let too much time pass, because who knows when an error could pop up.

Bobbi Rebell:
So when people check their credit score, what are the things that they should be looking for that are good and that are bad?

Chris Browning:
So I would say for sure, any type of drastic change. So if you've made this a habit and you're checking on a regular frequency, your credit score's not going to swing wildly. You know it's normal for it to swing 10, 20 points here and there. But if you see any type of drastic change, that would for sure be a trigger point to let you know you need to look into this a little bit more. Whether it's going to some place like freecreditreport.com which is run by Experian and you're getting a copy of your credit report just to see what's going on. Wild changes in any area of your finances is normally a sign of something that's not normal and that's maybe something you should look into a little bit more.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip Number One:

The only thing Chris did wrong here, he did not follow up in finding out what he owed the hospital. So the tip is to try to stay on top of your medical bills, especially the ones that you know are probably coming. Even if you're hoping they're not. That said, the visit was in Network, so Chris in all fairness could have believed there wasn't much to do except for a co-pay that he probably had already paid at the hospital. But at the end of the day, he himself says he should have checked in and been more on top of it. Mixed feelings about that though.

Financial Grownup Tip Number Two:

Don't assume that corporations or institutions such as hospitals are competent in their billing. Question everything. This especially goes sadly for end of life situations where the family is distracted and just wants to move on. Assuming you do get bills, try hard as it may be to go through them. I know of some instances where the bills were so out of control, literally offensive, that people have gone to the financing offices of the hospital and just negotiated them down on the grounds that no one could possibly go through every charge for an overpriced Bandaid or medication or whatever, and prove that it actually happened, was given and was priced correctly. Fairly, and fairly is pretty broad when it comes to our healthcare system. Hold them accountable. Just because they throw a list of a thousand teeny charges on a bill, doesn't mean you can't question it.

Episode Links

• Listen to and learn more about the Popcorn Finance Podcast

• Check your credit score!

Follow Chris Browning and Popcorn Finance!

• Twitter - @popcornfinance

• Instagram - @popcornfinancepodcast

• YouTube - Popcorn Finance 

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.