Brittany Hennes:
Philip Taylor, aka PT Money was too cool to do any research, or any real negotiation when buying his first car. But the crushing payments, and having to call his dad for help, quickly brought him back to reality.
In PT’s money story you will learn:
-Why PT felt guilty and went into a panic after buying his first car
-How he determined what car to buy and the budget
-The exact steps he used to buy his first car
-What his costs were relative to his financial resources
-His negotiation strategy
-What happened when he got home and made a huge decision
-How he tried to correct the mistake himself
-Why he reached out to his father for help, and how the situation was resolved
In PT’s money lesson you will learn:
-How to know what to pay for a car and how to negotiate it in advance
-The specific steps PT now uses to buy cars
-The best ways to finance a car purchase
-How you can avoid the pitfalls PT experienced
-The exact resources PT uses when buying a car
-Other skills PT now has to be a financial grownup
In PT’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-How PT and his wife have streamlined their grocery shopping
-How to balance saving money with saving time
-How to avoid buying things you don’t need when food shopping
-Strategies to get grocery shopping done with kids in tow
-When to pay fees for grocery related services
In My Take you will learn:
-Don’t let your pride get in the way of correcting a mistake
-When free is not the best value
-What to look for in a business where you are paying a fee for service to determine if it is worth paying the extra money
Episode Links:
PT’s website https://ptmoney.com/
Come to Fincon! Learn more here.
Follow PT and Fincon!
Twitter: @PTMoney @Fincon
Instagram @PTMoney @finconexpo
Facebook PTMoneyblog Finconexpo
Car resources PT mentioned
Edmunds
TrueCar
KellyBluebook
Craigslist
Grocery resources PT mentioned
WalMart
Kroger
Target
This episode was taped at Podcast Movement
Transcription
Philip Taylor:
I all of a sudden felt a rush of severe guilt and severe panic that I think I've actually put myself in a big hole here. I felt embarrassed that I couldn't have gone into the dealership and made us smarter choice. And I tried to call the dealership up and say, "Hey, would you guys take this car back?" And I think they got laughed at me over the phone.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what, being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hello my Financial Grownup friends. Making your first really big purchase, is a really exciting. But it's also a reality check. That is what you are hearing in the voice of Philip Taylor, known to many of his fans, as PT money. He later went on to start a huge money content conference called FinCon, which we'll talk about later. Welcome to the podcast to everyone. We keep it to about 15 minutes because you're busy. We're focused and intentional in bringing you a mini story and a lesson from that mini story, and then we'll always give you what I call an everyday money tip and specific ways that you can put it all to work in your life. All right, so let's get to PT's story. It is about buying his first car. But as you will hear, it is also about learning that even if you are legally an adult, you sometimes have to be humble and make that call to your dad. I was able to connect with PT at Podcast Movement in July. So you're going to hear a little bit of that in the background. Here is PT.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Philip Taylor, aka PT aka PT Money. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Philip Taylor:
Thanks for having me on Bobbi. It's great to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
This is an honor for me because we are approaching year three for me of your venture FinCon, which is a big conference for money people. Tell us quickly about it, and then we're going to get your money story.
Philip Taylor:
Yeah. It's a digital marketing conference for people who talk to people about money. So if they're out there, whether they're the Dave Ramsey type or the Suze Orman type, they're reaching people with a financial message. We'd like to have them at the event and show them how to do it better.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you're going to show us how to do buying a car better. Tell us your money story.
Philip Taylor:
Yeah, my money story is this. When I was, let's see, 22, 23 left college. Thought it was a big time college graduate with my new career.
Bobbi Rebell:
What was your new career?
Philip Taylor:
In accounting. So I was going to go work for one of the big financial firms, big accounting firms. My salary was 33,000. And through college, my parents had most have helped me out with a lot of the financial expenses. I had took out some student loans to help me out with some of the college. So, for the most part, I hadn't really managed my own money yet.
Bobbi Rebell:
But you were in accounting just to be clear.
Philip Taylor:
But I was in accounting. Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Philip Taylor:
And I knew some of the high finance stuff at that point. But I didn't know really how to handle my own money. And I was kind of naturally a spender. So, left for the new job that I had this big paycheck coming in, and the world was mine, right?
Bobbi Rebell:
And what were your other ... were you paying rent? What else was going on financially with you in terms of your overhead? Were you living with mom and dad?
Philip Taylor:
No, I moved into an apartment with some buddies. I was at least splitting I guess rent with some friends. But it was the nicest apartment in town because here we were big time college grads now, we could afford it all, right? And the next thing I wanted to do is run out and buy a brand new car, like a brand new SUV. I think it was the Mitsubishi Montero Sport had just come out. And it was this brand new SUV and it was 1999. So that dates me a bit. But it was like this beautiful vehicle that I thought now I had earned the right to go by.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Philip Taylor:
And so I kind of just blindly went down to the dealership.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now did you bring your buddies? Did you bring a family member? Anyone?
Philip Taylor:
No. The ego was there and I was like, I'm an accountant. My dad's a CPA. I can go figure this thing out.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you did the research that you knew what car you wanted, but anything on pricing financing anything? [crosstalk 00:04:05] my young accountant.
Philip Taylor:
No. I did None of that. I literally went down to the dealership thinking, I'll just work it out when I get there. I think my buddies and I were going to go on a trip the next weekend. And so it was in my mind that I would have this SUV by the time we went on this trip. I left my old car there for whatever they were going to give me for.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did you negotiate that?
Philip Taylor:
I didn't even negotiate, no.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you negotiated nothing?
Philip Taylor:
No. I took what they were giving me on that. I took the interest rate that they were going to give me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which was?
Philip Taylor:
Somewhere between 9% and 12%. So it was ridiculous. Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Philip Taylor:
I was being taken to the cleaners totally.
Bobbi Rebell:
And what was the price of the car?
Philip Taylor:
I don't remember that. I think it was somewhere around 32,000. Something like that.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, your yearly salary, which you do remember-
Philip Taylor:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
Was 33,000. You went out and bought a $32,000 car, brand new. You don't really remember the actual price of the car. You don't remember the actual interest rate. You didn't negotiate anything. But you had a fancy car and you were in the nicest apartment in town.
Philip Taylor:
That's it. That's it.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's good. All right. And you're going on a trip?
Philip Taylor:
That's right.
Bobbi Rebell:
Continue.
Philip Taylor:
Yes. So I get home and I we're getting ready for a trip. And then I start realizing what insurance is going to be for me. And because I was a young guy, I guess and not married yet or not a homeowner yet, insurance on this new Montero Sport was going to be just absolutely through the roof. And so when I started putting it all together, the car payment, the insurance-
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, what's the car payment?
Philip Taylor:
It was somewhere around $400 I think. $400, $500.
Bobbi Rebell:
What was your monthly take home pay?
Philip Taylor:
33,000 divided by 12, whatever that is. I don't know. It was not much.
Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you paid taxes too. So it wasn't [inaudible 00:05:36].
Philip Taylor:
Exactly. Yeah. So all in all-
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.
Philip Taylor:
I was going to be probably spending close to at least a third of my take home pay on this whole car experience, if not more. So, overburdening myself for sure.
Bobbi Rebell:
How did you feel?
Philip Taylor:
I all of a sudden felt a rush of severe guilt and severe panic that, "Okay, I think I've actually put myself in a big hole here." I felt embarrassed that I couldn't have gone into the dealership and made a smarter choice and negotiated it a little better. And so, yeah, I felt, I guess a sense of the immediacy of owning this thing was now fading. And I was feeling bad.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you do?
Philip Taylor:
At that point, I tried to call the dealership up and say, "Hey, would you guys take this car back?" And I think the guy laughed at me over the phone. And I didn't even then attempt to go down there. I was like, "Well, what can I do now? Can't really afford this thing. So should I try to sell it on the secondary market? And that would be foolish." I knew enough to know that. And so I just felt, I was at the end of my rope. So I called my dad.
Philip Taylor:
And here I am this 22 year old, big ego, new college grad, at the end of the day calling dad for a bailout. And I said, "Dad, what do I do in this situation?" And luckily, dad is able to call up the dealership and somehow spin his magic and convince them to take the car back from me. I do remember one thing about this is that it was $1,000 down payment that I put down because that's pretty much what I lost in this whole process. So they took the car back and I didn't owe any payments anymore, but I did lose my $1,000. And they gave me my old Saturn back that was paid for. And I drove my Saturn for the next five years, proudly. I swore going forward that I would own my financial life going forward. And I wouldn't ever rely on someone else to kind of help me out.
Philip Taylor:
But then I also studied up on actually how to buy a car. And I actually learned how to do it right. And so the next one I bought, I used some smarter tactics there.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, give us a lesson for our listeners, what is the takeaway from that?
Philip Taylor:
Yeah, number one, you need to absolutely have the price of the car pretty much nailed down before you even walk into the dealership.
Bobbi Rebell:
The retail price of the price that you are willing to pay?
Philip Taylor:
The price that you are willing to pay.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Philip Taylor:
And what other people are buying that car for. So we have all kinds of tools out there these days that will let you research that. Whether it's in edmunds.com or truecar.com. Those services will allow you to kind of research what people are actually buying cars for on the public market. And so you really need to kind of nail that down before you go to a dealership.
Philip Taylor:
The second thing I like to do is to actually take a step further and start communicating with dealerships about a potential offer and saying, "This is what I'm looking for. What's kind of your best offer to get me down there?" And so I have these conversations over email with these dealerships to let them put their best foot forward. Dealerships are used to this now. They are very used to consumers who want to just communicate beforehand. And so nail down that price as much as possible before you walk into the dealership. With financing, go to other sources. Go to your bank go to other vendors who could provide a good rate for you and have that loan secured before you walk into that dealership.
Philip Taylor:
Secondly, know what your car's worth. Look it up on Blue Book. Understand what your trade in value is going to be. At the end of the day, we're going to take this to Craigslist with and sell it on the open market. So know those numbers. And then once you're going in, and once you go to the actual dealership, bring someone with you. So I made that mistake the first time. And this is a chance for you to rely on someone else. Negotiate each of those factors separately. So start with the price get that nailed down. They're going to want to talk to you about payments. They're going to want to talk to you about interest rates.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, let's talk about why they want. They want to talk about payments, because most people just think, can I afford the payment rather ... And that's a way for them to charge a higher price because you can manipulate the payments.
Philip Taylor:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip. Because this is one that is near and dear to my heart as a busy mom and someone that doesn't want to get suckered into buying stuff that I don't want. Do tell.
Philip Taylor:
Yeah, so my wife's the frugal one. Mrs. PT is super frugal. I'm the spender. So, she's got all the cool money saving ideas. And so one of the things she does is buy her groceries every week or every other week. And in the past it's always been good advice to make a grocery list before you go the grocery store, right? Because that way you won't pick up anything extra, you'll get exactly what you need. You'll be able to maybe even price some things out beforehand. That's good advice.
Philip Taylor:
But I find that through the years, it's like we made the event in January for a couple weeks, and then it kind of falls off, right? You're less diligent about that. So you end up just buying sort of random things at the grocery store every time you go. So one of the things we started doing is taking advantage of grocery pickup, right? So many folks are familiar with this. But this allows us to beforehand, before we go the grocery store, use the online portals of Walmart, of Target, of Kroger, whoever, and pre select our items we want to buy. Walmart is free for this service. Some other grocery stores will charge you these days. It's a small fee, though. And to me, it's worth it because you're selecting beforehand, before you're hungry before you're walking the aisle, seeing the tempting things. You're seeing exactly what you need.
Philip Taylor:
And then you pop in your car. At the scheduled time you show up, and you don't even have to go in the store keep your kids in the car, which is really cool for my wife, we have three kids. And then you pay your fee if you're going to the one of the places that pay a fee, or you go to Walmart, you pick it up free, and then you head home knowing that you didn't buy anything extra that you didn't need. And you saved some time because you're not wandering the stores picking random things.
Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me more about FinCon because this is your how much?
Philip Taylor:
This is our eighth one.
Bobbi Rebell:
Eighth one. Wow.
Philip Taylor:
Yeah. And so it's an annual event and community. And our event will be this September 26 to 29 in Orlando, Florida. Be 2,000 money nerds like us sitting around talking about money but also how we talk about money. So talking shop. Whether it's how to create better content, promote it better or make money on our efforts.
Bobbi Rebell:
How has the business evolved, because you've really grown. You've got a big ... we're here by the way, recording a Podcast Movement. You've got a lot of people here on your team which is really impressive.
Philip Taylor:
About the third year I decided I wanted to take it a little more seriously. And so I started looking for ways to add value to the attendees. Things I'd held off on before because I wanted to keep the pricing low on the tickets. So, I just said, "Well, I can still have a low ticket but then now I can have a premium ticket. And I even have a premium above that." So I look for ways to add value for attendees that we could kind of build some margin in and charge a higher price for.
Philip Taylor:
Secondly, was to create more of a true marketplace at the event where people were coming together to do business and to do deals. And so for the ROI of the experience being face to face. You for instance, meeting with brands at the event can turn into a podcast sponsorship. And so, that's kind of what we want to create. A marketplace for that to happen at the event. And so the more we leaned into our expo hall experience, which we call FinCon Central now, to make that a bigger part of the event. The more value that sponsors and exhibitors saw and being a part of it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people find you and learn more about FinCon and about you. Because you also have your own stuff going on.
Philip Taylor:
Sure. We're on the socials @FinCon or @FinConExpo. And then our website is finconexpo.com. And then me personally, I have my own blog and some podcasts I've done in the past. All at ptmoney.com.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you PT.
Philip Taylor:
Thanks Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
There is a lot in what PT had to share with us. So much that we can all relate to. Financial grownup tip number one. If you get into a bad situation, do not let your pride get in the way of fixing it. PT could have just accepted defeat and been under a mess of payments for years. But he did the hard thing and called his dad, and his dad was there for him.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. You may have noticed that in PT's money tip, some of the grocery services were free and some had a payment. There are times when free is not the best value. Not saying it isn't in that case. But a well run business is profitable. So they must make money somewhere. Give your business to the stores that work the best for your life. The store that executes better. That has delivery done on time for example and correctly. May cost more, but be worth it. That cost may be in a fee or it may be in slightly higher prices. But look at the total picture.
Bobbi Rebell:
A quick word about PT's business, FinCon, it is happening in Orlando on September 26th to the 29th. If you are interested in coming, please come hear me speak on Wednesday at 1:30. I will be doing a joint presentation with my editor and producer, Steve Stewart. We'll be sharing the behind the scenes look into what went on when we launched the Financial Grownup podcast and where we have come from those first episodes back in February of 2018. And we'll also have a lot of information about how you can get started podcasting if that is something that interests you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Make sure to let me know if you are coming so that we can connect in person. I'm going to leave a link to sign up for FinCon and learn more about it in the show notes. Those show notes are at bobbirebell.com calm/podcast/ptmoney. Or you can just DM me on any of the social media channel and I will make sure that you get the right information. On Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter @BobbiRebell and thank you to PT for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grown ups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
John Schneider and David Auten went 40 percent over budget at their recent wedding- including a couple thousand dollars on a very fancy portable restroom known as the Lavish Loo. Looking back, they would have said I don’t to many of their expenses.
In John and David’s money story you will learn:
-How their wedding went 40% over budget
-Why they spent $2,000 on a fancy portable bathroom called the Lavish Loo
-Why they regret not waiting a little bit longer to get married
-The choices they would make differently in hindsight
In John and David’s money lesson you will learn:
-The importance of focusing on your own priorities for your wedding or special event not what is expected by friends and family
-How they leveraged their wedding spending to pay for their a good portion of their honeymoon
In John and David’s every day money tip you will learn:
-How to use the strategy they call money chunking to make your budget feel larger
In my take you will learn:
-How to get things for free from vendors and party planners
-How better communication about expectations for sharing expenses can avoid misunderstandings.
Episode Links
The Debt Free Guys website
Queer Money podcast
Follow the Debt Free Guys!
Instagram @debtfreeguys
Facebook DebtFree Guys
Twitter @DebtFreeGuys
The Lavish Loo
The Posh Potty
Come see the Debt Free Guys at The National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce Business and leadership conference in Philadelphia
Come see the Debt Free Guys at FinCon in Orlando!
Transcription
David Auten:
We had to pay a little bit extra to have some nice, they were called the Posh Potty, no the Lavish Loo. So we had some pretty fancy toilets at our wedding.
John Schneider:
The Lavish Loo was just under $2,000 for the one night.
David Auten:
We had it for three nights.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownups, so everyone wants their weddings, their birthdays, special occasions to be remembered especially when they throw a big party. In the case of John Schneider and David Auten, also known as the Debt Free Guys, the big buzz at their wedding in addition to the overall joy of them tying the knot, was actually about the fancy porta potty. Which by the way was technically called The Lavish Loo.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, just a minute here. A special welcome to our new listeners and welcome back to our regulars. We keep the episodes to about 15 minutes to fit your schedule. So if you have more time, we hear binging a few for a long drive or a commute works well. Think of it like flextime for podcast listeners.
Bobbi Rebell:
It would mean the world to us if you would subscribe and then go into settings and make sure that you are set up for auto downloads. That way, you won't miss any upcoming episodes. Automate your podcast like you automate your retirement savings. There you go. All right, let's get to John and David.
Bobbi Rebell:
So they just got married and they did go over budget on their wedding, but it wasn't just splurging on things like fancy porta potties, which they'll explain by the way. They kind of got into a pickle where they really had no choice about that. It was also kind of about being too busy to make the effort to watch those expenses and not asking the right questions in time to control the costs. Here are the Debt Free Guys.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Debt Free Guys. You guys are financial grownups. Welcome to the podcast.
John Schneider:
Thank you for having us. We're excited to be here.
David Auten:
Yes, thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let me do one more formal introduction. First of all we have John Schneider. So say hello so people know your voice.
John Schneider:
Hello this is John Schneider.
Bobbi Rebell:
And David Auten.
David Auten:
Hi, this is David.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right and I am a huge fan of your website because so much of the advice applies to everyone even though you are out there talking about your sexual orientation. This is universal themes that you talk about, including the fact that you guys successfully paid and this is a big deal, $51,000 in credit card debt in just over two years. So first of all, congratulations on that.
John Schneider:
Thank you. That was very liberating. It was coming out of a closet with our finances.
David Auten:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you also have been able to really leverage your successes into business opportunities and into productive ones that really help others to find a path that is right for them financially. So tell me about some of these partnerships that you've been able to put together that are spreading the word.
John Schneider:
Yeah exactly. We actually are excited to share that we just resigned with a Queer Money sponsor, which will be MassMutual. It'll be their second time sponsoring our podcast which is, not only does it help us put food on the table, but it helps us be able to promote and market our podcast and get it out to more people so we can help more people with the content that we create, both with ourselves and with our guests.
Bobbi Rebell:
I have to congratulate both of you. You both recently said, "I do." At your wedding.
John Schneider:
We did.
David Auten:
Absolutely.
Bobbi Rebell:
I saw amazingly beautiful photos. Everyone should go to your social media, which is all @debtfreeguys. We'll have more info at the end of the podcast on that. You said, "I do." But you also now wish you said, "I don't." To a bunch of stuff. Tell us your money story.
John Schneider:
Yeah. Hindsight's 20/20, right? And even though our entire life revolves around helping ourselves and other people with their money, we definitely have some big takeaways even just a month after our wedding.
David Auten:
Yeah.
John Schneider:
I think the biggest mistake that we made overall was that we have a lot going on in our lives. This year, we just sold our condo January 3rd of this year and then we had to move out, find a new apartment. We're trying to ramp up our business, we had the wedding, and then we've been planning for a couple of years to spend a month or so in Europe come the end of August. So we have just a lot going on right now and I don't know that it was the best time to plan a wedding because we weren't as focused and as diligent with the planning and most specifically, the expenses.
Bobbi Rebell:
So give us some examples.
John Schneider:
We first found the location that we wanted to have the wedding. It was a 40 acre ranch in the mountains of Colorado, kind of between Salida and Buena Vista. It was a beautiful ranch, beautiful location, the mountains were in the background. Wonderful. That's all we thought about when we saw the pictures on the website. Then we went and visited the ranch and it wasn't until after the fact that we realized all of the peripheral costs that came with having a wedding at that location.
John Schneider:
We had envisioned that we would be completely out in the open so that people could see the sky and the sunset and the moonrise. And we had learned that every now and then, they get some pretty heavy gusts of wind and that you ran a big risk of people eating dirt if you didn't have a tent there to protect yourselves in case there was some inclement weather.
David Auten:
Yeah.
David Auten:
I think one of the other things about having it at that ranch is we didn't realize, it being in a remote location, it's not on a sewer system that most people are familiar with using. So we actually had to have porta potties brought up, but of course we didn't want the kind of typical green or blue.
John Schneider:
That you see at the park.
David Auten:
Yeah the ones that everyone kind of their stomach turns when you think about them. So we had to pay a little bit extra to have some nice, they were called The Posh Potty or no, the Lavish Loo.
David Auten:
So we had some pretty fancy toilets at our wedding only because we needed to provide that and that did cost us a little extra.
Bobbi Rebell:
How much did they cost? How much does a posh potty cost?
John Schneider:
The Lavish Loo was just under $2,000 for the one night.
David Auten:
We had it for three nights.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which one did you go with? Did you go with The Lavish Loo or the Posh Potty?
John Schneider:
We went with The Lavish Loo and it was really fancy, in fact. We didn't realize how nice it was until after the wedding. That was one of the biggest talking points of the wedding. So we're like, "We have to check this out." There was a men's and women's side. They weren't gigantic, but they were big enough for one or two people they had air conditioning, there was music playing. They had plants inside. There was all sorts of air freshener and all the hand wash, soap. Everything that you could ever want.
John Schneider:
And one of the guys that was actually at the wedding he said he almost thought about sleeping in there that night because it was the coolest place to sleep in.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you did get good value at least from The Lavish Loo.
David Auten:
We did.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right things to everyone should make sure to put into your wedding budget. All right. What else surprised you? What about the traditional expenses? Were there things that you guys just didn't think ... Did you have a wedding planner or somebody guiding you? Did you make a budget in advance of the wedding? So you had a certain fixed amount that you were going to spend and kind of worked back from there and then had to drop things. What was going on here?
David Auten:
We did have a budget from the get go and we hired a wedding planner who was actually a friend of ours and specializes in doing same-sex weddings. And she was wonderful. She acted as a great resource. Not only as a guide to ... There were just things that we never thought of and would never have thought of had we tried to do this on our own. So that was very helpful. Plus she also had an inventory of resources like candle holders and plates and silverware and all that kind of stuff can really rack up your costs that she was willing to give us access to at no additional cost other than her fee.
David Auten:
So that was super helpful partly because we weren't paying enough attention to the management of the expenses. I think we maybe spent about 40% more than what we had originally budgeted.
Bobbi Rebell:
So 40% is a lot and it's clearly not just the $2,000 Lavish Loo.
John Schneider:
We specifically kept the size of the wedding down. So we invited mostly our very supportive friends.
Bobbi Rebell:
What was the guest list? How many people about?
David Auten:
We invited about 60, about 41 came I think was the final count.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. And what was your initial budget if you feel comfortable disclosing that?
David Auten:
My original in my mind was that this was going to cost us about $15,000. Like I said, we'd spent probably about 40% more so we did cross the $20,000 mark.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah and the $2,000 then I guess, as a portion of the wedding expense, you spent 10% of your budget on The Lavish Loo.
David Auten:
Right.
Bobbi Rebell:
That was a chunk.
John Schneider:
And I think another cost that we didn't manage appropriately was ... so we rented this ranch and it slept a total of 14 people, I believe. And only four of those were single beds. Our idea was that we would have our closest friends stay in the ranch with us and that they would help share in the cost of that. We were negligent at letting them know that in advance of making the offer to them and never asked for the money in advance or never asked for the money afterwards.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for our listeners?
David Auten:
I would definitely say give yourself the time to think about what it is that you truly want. What it is that you truly want, not what you want for your friends, not what you want for your family. What do you want your day to look like? That was one of the things that helped us save some money, but I think that having that extra amount of time to really think through all of the costs that are associated with it.
John Schneider:
In hindsight, even though it was more expensive than we expected it to be, I couldn't get over. I've been so excited about it. We only have so far half a dozen pictures from the wedding, but I look at them all the time. To me, it was just the most amazing week. And so, I think part of that was because we created what we wanted and not what everybody else wanted like David said.
David Auten:
We did find one way to actually get a benefit out of the amount of money that we spent. We opened up two new credit cards, used those credit cards exclusively for the wedding knowing we had the money to pay it off and because of that, we're getting five nights free hotel when we're on our honeymoon in Ireland.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well you guys are very good at budgeting and so let's move into your everyday money tip because that has to do with an interesting take you that I think will really help people get their heads wrapped around the different fluctuations in the cost of living.
David Auten:
Yeah so this is what I call money chunking. I kind of joke with John that this is something that he does regularly. He'll grab a pint of Ben & Jerry's and will eat the whole thing. And then throughout the week he's wishing he had ice cream.
Bobbi Rebell:
I can't imagine what that would be like.
John Schneider:
One pint is a serving. I don't care what anybody says. I don't believe [crosstalk 00:10:44].
Bobbi Rebell:
Or else it would be in two different containers, right?
John Schneider:
Thank you.
David Auten:
Right. So the idea with money chunking is I'm the kind of person who would eat a quarter of the pint and then put it back in the freezer, go and eat another quarter of the pint and put it back in the freezer. So that's kind of the idea with money chunking is that when you have an amount of money that you have set aside in your budget for something. Whether that's for the week or for a month, we often times have this tendency to think, "Okay I've got this amount of money." And then you go out and you blow it either the first day or maybe the second into your budget.
David Auten:
And then the rest of the time, whether it's the rest of the week or the rest of the month, you feel like you're sacrificing. You feel like you're not having fun. You feel like you're not able to actually do what it is that you enjoy in life.
David Auten:
When we money chunk, what we do is we'll take that amount of money. Let's say we have $50 for dining out for the week, we'll break that into a couple of pieces so that instead of just one time going out, we actually get to go out two or three times. So it allows us to spread our happiness over the whole budget rather than just those first two nights or first night.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. All right tell me what you guys are up to for the rest of 2018 and beyond.
John Schneider:
Right now we're super excited because we are joining a whole bunch of LGBT entrepreneurs in Philadelphia August 14th through the 17th at the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce Business & Leadership Conference. That's our next event. Then we're going out of the country. We'll be in Ireland for a week followed by three weeks in Spain and that's predominantly for fun. Lik David said, it's our honeymoon. It's also a little bit to celebrate my birthday. But it's also we've created our entire business for the most part, everything that we do with our business other than public speaking, we can do from anywhere in the world.
John Schneider:
So we're trying to test to see how good we are at actually being in Spain near a beach and being able to focus a little bit on the business, but also focus a little bit on having some fun while we're abroad. Shortly after that, we'll be joining you at FinCon in Orlando.
Bobbi Rebell:
Very fun. And where can people learn more about you, follow you on social, and so on?
David Auten:
Sure. On almost every platform, we are @debtfreeguys so that's Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. We are @debtfreeguys. Our website is debtfreeguys.com and then on iTunes, our podcast is called Queer Money.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it is climbing up the charts as we speak. So congratulations on all your success.
John Schneider:
Thank you so much for having us on. We appreciate it.
David Auten:
Definitely. We appreciate it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, as the guys mentioned, they will see me in Orlando at FinCon. We'd love to see some of my Financial Grownup friends there as well. I'm going to leave a link on how to find out more about FinCon in the show notes. That is at bobbirebell.com/podcast/debtfreeguys and be sure to DM me if you be there so we can connect in Florida.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, here we go. Financial Grownup tip number one. Event planning on a budget 101. Ask for things that you might be able to get for free. So the guys, for example, got candle holders from their party planner. At my wedding, which was a Jewish wedding, the florist asked what we wanted on the chuppah. And the chuppah is basically a canopy that a couple stands under at a wedding and it represents a home.
Bobbi Rebell:
So many people have it constructed these days out of branches and flowers and they are beautiful and fantastic. And most ceremonies that this is used for run about half an hour. So you can spend thousands, you can spend infinite money on this. For me, it was just not that important. So I asked the synagogue if they had one that we could just borrow. And they did. They described it. It was a beautiful deep blue velvet with gold trim, Hebrew lettering and some other décor. It was simple, it was traditional. I loved it. And it was free.
Bobbi Rebell:
Also free basic linens for tables usually come with whoever you're working with, the place, the venue. Instead of going for a layer on top or bows on the chairs, just ask the florist to put aside the non-perfect flower petals or just extra flower petals that are falling off from whatever flower arrangement you have and then use those petals to sprinkle on those standard white tablecloths. And you can also do that, by the way, to dress up the cake. So those are some specific things that you can do.
Bobbi Rebell:
So pick something you're ambivalent about, not the things that you really care about, but the things that you're kind of like, "Eh, I don't care that much about the tablecloths." And see if someone can make that work for you for free.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. The biggest budget buster for the guys was so easy to avoid. When you invite guests to stay at the hotel, include the cost and make sure that they are opting in. In their case, since they did not say anything, their well-intentioned friends probably assumed that it just came with the wedding package and there was no additional costs. That's what I would think.
Bobbi Rebell:
I get the awkwardness of asking after the fact. One possible idea; have a close friend, a very close friend delicately call the people that you've invited to stay at the ranch and explain that you're shy about asking for the cash, but that paying for everyone to stay is not in the wedding couple's budget. Honestly, very few people expect to have the wedding couple pay for their hotel. You could even have your friend say that their wedding gift to the wedding couple could be staying at the hotel and absorbing your own costs and that no further gift is necessary.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's connect. Please be in touch. DM me on social media. I want to hear from you guys and I want to hear what you think about the show, what you want to see more of. We're trying a lot of different things and we're getting great feedback. And I want your feedback.
Bobbi Rebell:
On Instagram, I am @bobbirebell1. On Twitter, @bobbirebell. And thanks to the Debt Free Guys for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Entrepreneur and extreme athlete Kyle Maynard has lived a life of high achievement, so it came a shock, when a planned business venture stumbled, and he had to let 5 employees go and accept the limitations of his vision.
In Kyle’s money story you will learn:
-How Kyle took a risk on a new venture that did not go as well as projected
-The tough decisions that he had to make to protect his assets
-Kyle's ability to come to terms with his missteps, and decision to cut his losses
-How he chose to pivot and re-think his venture
-The importance of protecting his own financial security while expanding his business
-What Kyle learned from a mentor about "the double bottom line”
-How he integrates his “no excuses” philosophy into his business ventures even when they are not living up to his expectations
In Kyle’s money lesson you will learn
-How to know when to cut your losses
-How to avoid making decisions in fear of what others will think
-Specific ways to evaluate whether or not to put more money into an investment or business ventures
In Kyle's every day money tip you will learn:
-How to prioritize the money you spend on fitness and health
-Whether supplements are worth the money
-How to get in shape when you have a low or no budget
-Why high quality food is better than supplements and shakes etc
-His take on organic foods
-If you need a $10,000 treadmill
-What Kyle was eating (or not eating!) the day we taped the interview
In My Take you will learn:
-The importance of HOW you fail- because at some point we all do
-Why many entrepreneurs, like Kyle, and Perez Hilton do not invest all their own money in their businesses, in order to protect their assets and spread the risk.
-My tip on how to save money and eat healthier when buying fresh fruit
Episode Links
Kyle’s webpage: http://kyle-maynard.com/
Follow Kyle!
Instagram @kylemaynard
Facebook Kyle Maynard
Get a signed copy of Kyle’s book “No Excuses” !
Listen to the Perez Hilton episode where he talks about not risking your own capital that I reference in this episode!
When should you pay up for organic fruit?
What not to buy organic- Insider
The Truth about organic produce and pesticides- The Washington Post
Transcription
Kyle Maynard:
Just because you've put in a certain amount of money does not justify you continuing to go and put in more in the future for something that's not working so well, and so I did go in and let five of the people go on short notice.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebel, author of "How to be a financial grownup". But you know what? Being a grown-up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. So losing a job is hard, but being the one to make those decisions and cause those job losses as a business owner is brutal. As you'll hear from the very raw sharing of an experience that is all too common for entrepreneurs, but rarely talked about so candidly, as it is by my guest, Kyle Maynard.
Bobbi Rebell:
I met him a little more than a year ago at a conference in San Francisco, and immediately needed to know more about this incredible man. I can't begin to tell you how much it means to me that I finally was able to get him on the podcast for everyone.
Bobbi Rebell:
So for those of you who don't know about Kyle Maynard. Kyle is an entrepreneur. He's a speaker. He's an author of the bestseller, "No excuses". Kyle is also an award-winning extreme athlete. He was the first man to bear crawl the highest mountain in Africa, Mount Kilimanjaro. Now, why was he bear crawling? Because Kyle was born with a rare condition known as congenital amputation. It left him with arms that end at the elbows, and legs that end at his knees. So naturally in addition to climbing massive mountains, Kyle owns a gym, is a champion wrestler, teaches crossfit, and is a world record setting weightlifter.
Bobbi Rebell:
As you guys know, I try to keep the podcast short, so we're just going to cut off the bio there, but trust me, look him up. His accomplishments are endless. I'm so excited about this interview guys. Here is Kyle Maynard.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kyle Maynard. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Kyle Maynard:
Hey, thank you so much Bobbi. Appreciate you having me. I don't know about this whole grownup business, but I'll go with it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, you're definitely a grownup. I've followed your adventures. So we met, we met over a year ago at a conference out in San Francisco where I got to interview you for the conference and then you were off. You've been traveling. I think you went to something like 14 countries since then, and now you've landed long enough to do this interview in San Diego where you are living a nomadic and minimalist lifestyle.
Kyle Maynard:
Yeah, that's pretty accurate. You may have some ex-girlfriends that would disagree on the grownup part, but you know.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh no. We're just doing money. We're just going to talk about money and you're a businessman. Look, you have many accomplishments, and you were a bestselling author at a very young age. You were able to make some money early on, enough to be able to invest in a home. You invested in mutual funds that was up and down. You also founded a very successful gym and that venture has done well.
Bobbi Rebell:
But now for your money story, we're going to talk about what's been going on more recently. And first of all I just want to thank you in advance, because this was not the original story that you were going to share, but you have agreed to share it I believe here for the first time, so candidly. And you had to make some very tough decisions after something, a new venture hadn't gone as well as expected. And I think it's something a lot of people will relate to and get a lot out of this story. So go for it. Kyle.
Kyle Maynard:
So I guess to start with my current career has been, as you know, traveling around giving speeches, corporate events, and you know a variety of other types of events. Like you in sort of the motivations for starting this podcast, very similar motivations. I've been wanting to go and try to find a way to go and build a business and monetize things outside of just the constant travel, and feel like there is a place to be able to go and reach people in the digital world, you know.
Kyle Maynard:
I also do have access to some amazing human beings, and really wanted to be able to harness that and be able to help other people realize more of their potential in their lives and whatever that would mean for them.
Kyle Maynard:
And I made some really aggressive hires very quickly, so I'd hired five near full time people to kind of help build out the vision for what I had set out to do with this new program. And things got pretty dramatically behind schedule and I ultimately realized the amount that was going to go and take to be able to go and get the ship righted if it worked at all, potentially might eat away at the vast majority of the savings that I'd made over the last decade or more.
Kyle Maynard:
And I had to make a very tough decision to be able to analyze the whole idea of the sunk cost fallacy. It's probably one of my favorite financial concepts. But the idea that just because you've put in a certain amount of money does not justify you continuing to go and put in more in the future for something that's not working so well.
Kyle Maynard:
And so I did go and let five of the people go on short notice quickly and ended up, give them a month to figure out what they were going to go and do next, as I felt like that was something that needed to happen. The promises and the excitement that was there and was made, I just wanted to go and do right by them, but at the same time did not want to eat away at the savings that I'd built up entirely for something that wasn't going so great.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's hard. Can you tell us more about what your vision, what kind of venture it was, and what did not happen or did happen that was not aligned with your original vision?
Kyle Maynard:
One of my financial mentors taught me this. He's the vice chairman of AOL, and he said that everything that he goes and gets into, you know, has this double bottom line aspect of purpose and profitability. That theme and that concept is something that I wanted to go and teach people that purpose and profitability. Profitability not just in their business lives, but like in every aspect of their lives.
Kyle Maynard:
And through some of my best friends that are former Navy seals, professional athletes, people that have achieved great things, wanted to be able and go and pull together from their wisdom to be able to create a program to ultimately inspire other people to go and take on these dreams, these visions.
Kyle Maynard:
And it's not dissimilar from, you know, people who have done these types of things before. You know, like the Tony Robbins style events and things like that. We wanted to go and approach it from a different angle, which is still going to happen I know down the road at some point, so I'm not going to go into the details, the specifics of what makes that so different.
Kyle Maynard:
But at the same time holding true to that message, the achievement of that no excuses mentality, which is kind of, that's the core of my messaging is like finding a way. That could be really detrimental when we try to enforce things that are not happening.
Kyle Maynard:
Things were way behind on this project and in order to like kind of pull together and unravel it, like ultimately to realize that by forcing that to happen in the nature of this project, I was going to lose the essence of what it was too, and kind of create something that was just generic that was too similar to what other people had already done too. So it was even still protecting the project at the risk of looking like an idiot. And it's okay.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it's a very grownup decision because you're also number one, protecting your financial assets that you've built up over a decade and that's something very real. But Perez Hilton, of of all people said, when you're building a business, don't always risk all your money. It's okay to take other people's money. You have to protect your own money too, and that's okay.
Kyle Maynard:
Totally. Really, I think that what it comes down to is the idea of fear and ego and looking bad and all of those things should not keep us from making the decisions that we know we need to make. So many of us go through life attached to the image of who we think that we are.
Kyle Maynard:
If we both throw in $50,000 into a business and I'm running the business, I come to you and I say, "Hey, we need to go and put in another $25,000 each". If you justify that in your head based off of the logic that you've already put in 50, it's a faulty logic.
Kyle Maynard:
The right way to make that decision would be as if I've made no investment whatsoever in that, like, would I make that $25,000 investment today. And if you answered yes, then do it and if not, then it's time to walk away from it. And ultimately what I had to go and realize is, if I were to go and make that investment for that payroll and kind of the extended runway and all that stuff, like I wouldn't make that investment today. So then ultimately I've got to make a hard choice now.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson, the takeaway for our listeners from your experience?
Kyle Maynard:
I would say it's to look at whatever the situation, whether it's a financial thing, but it could be like I said, relationship thing, health thing, whatever. Look at where things are like out of order, and frankly are we clinging to something or some idea? Because you know, we think that we've already invested so much in it, like it's a dumb idea. Or like you continue on down that path, you know, whether it's ... I talk to my sisters about that all the time and like, you know, relationships too, it's this exact same way, you know. It's like you don't date somebody just because you dated them for two years. That's not the right way to go about that decision.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. But people do, they feel they've invested in the person, the relationship. I should stick in and that is definitely not good to do.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let me ask you how. So so you are in the fitness business and that's your everyday money tip is how to save money. What to prioritize? What's worth spending money on when you're trying to get in shape? Because you climbed mountains, Kyle, like it's pretty insane what goes on.
Kyle Maynard:
You mentioned this, but I'd owned a gym for a long time too, and actually my first company right out of the gate was a supplement company and learned a tremendous amount about that and just the whole industry. And I think a ton of stuff that we spend money on in health and fitness goes unused and wasted. The biggest thing that you can do I think in the health and fitness journey is to drastically simplify it and spend time actually doing stuff. You know, spend time on, like if you're going to spend money, spend it on getting high quality food, instead of a ton of supplements and shakes and all of that stuff. Spend it on getting real foods, decent quality stuff. If you can eat organic, great. If not, then you can still get high quality food too that's not organic, that maybe it's not going to be as ideal, but like it's going to be pretty good.
Kyle Maynard:
It's going to get you a long ways and you don't need to go in and buy a ton of crazy fitness contraptions like you can make do with simple stuff. Like everyone has access to the gym of the outdoors like and if it's super cold or super hot where you're at, then you have your bedroom, you have a space at some point. You have your body. You have you know so many ways to go and move that don't require expensive $10,000 treadmills.
Kyle Maynard:
Is it an excuse? When it comes down to it, it actually is avoidant of the real issue at hand, which is putting in work and eating high quality food.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So what are you eating for dinner tonight, Kyle?
Kyle Maynard:
Today, I have yet to eat anything yet. I think I'm going to go on a fasting day, and then thrown in ...
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait a second, guys. Just so you know, we're taping this. It's after noon in San Diego where Kyle is. You haven't eaten till noon. Come on.
Kyle Maynard:
Most days I don't.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're one of those morning faster people.
Kyle Maynard:
Intermittent fasting. Yeah, and also like I'll throw in a periodic like two, three, five day fast every now and then. So ...
Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. That's also not, not the purpose of it.
Kyle Maynard:
Saves money.
Bobbi Rebell:
Save some money I guess. Anyway, so everyone. So Kyle has a bunch of projects going on. but they're top secret. So Kyle's not going to tell us. So I'm just going to have Kyle tell everyone where you can find out about all of his top secret next chapter of his business venture and life adventures. Go for it, Kyle.
Kyle Maynard:
All right. You can hit me up on Instagram is probably the place that I'm a more active, Instagram and Facebook, but Instagram's like pretty much where it's at. Like I've also taken the time to be able to spend the next few months to be able to go at a little slower pace and enjoy and then gear up for some exciting stuff in the fall and the winter.
Bobbi Rebell:
And your handle is Kyle Maynard, is it Kyle Maynard, right?
Kyle Maynard:
It's just KyleMaynard.com.
Bobbi Rebell:
Kylemayard.com. Cool. All right, everyone. Check him out. Thank you Kyle.
Kyle Maynard:
Awesome. Thank you Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So if there is anyone whose adventures you really need to be following on Instagram, it is Kyle's. This was a serious interview, but he's a really fun guy to watch, so definitely follow him.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's get down to my take. Financial Grownup tip number one. Fail, but with grace and gratitude. I did not hear one bit of pity from Kyle, and I know he really put his all into this venture, so thankfully he did not put it in all his money. There was no finger pointing. He did not blame anyone. He kept his head up.
Bobbi Rebell:
This was not the story we had planned to share. Kyle mentioned it casually as we were setting up. We planned to share something else, so it is possible, even likely, that you guys are the first ones hearing this, and that's pretty brave for Kyle because Kyle's a pretty well known guy who is known for winning, and as he says, no excuses.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Kyle reminds us that we can get in shape at no cost, and that rather than supplements, we can just eat good quality food. My tip buy less precut fruit to save money. So just this week, I realized my family bought a $9 container of cut up organic cantaloupe, which by the way had already gone bad that day so it wasn't even fresh and I had to return it, but $9. Oh my gosh. So first of all, easy way to save money on healthy fruits and vegetables. Cut them up yourself at home.
Bobbi Rebell:
Second, be aware of where to pay up for organic. In general, if it has a skin or an outer layer that you're not eating in general, you don't need to pay up for organic. I'll leave some links with more info in the show notes. And by the way the show notes can always be found by going to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast and scrolling down to the episode. You can also type in bobbirebell.com/podcast and the guest's name. So in this case it would be bobbirebell.com/podcast/kylemaynard.
Bobbi Rebell:
Friends, big thank you. The show is growing. More of you are subscribing, so thank you again. Please tell your friends and all that good stuff. Social media is great, DME. Be in touch on Instagram bobbirebell1, and on Twitter @bobbirebell.
Bobbi Rebell:
And thanks to the great Kyle Maynard for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Speaker 1:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Farnoosh Torabi was underpaid and overworked as a young journalist. But a key piece of information put her on the road- albeit a rocky road- to doubling her pay.
In Farnoosh’s story you will learn:
-What to ask your HR department to find out if you are underpaid
-Strategies to use if your pay is at the low end of the salary range for your job
-When to know it is time to look for a job outside your current company
-How to handle the big question “How much do you want to make” during job interviews
-How to turn an employers promise of a future raise, into an immediate salary bump
In Farnoosh’s lesson you will learn:
-How to most effectively advocate for yourself
-How Farnoosh was able to persevere even when she faced pushback about her compensation
-The importance of getting the information in advance of negotiations
In Farnoosh’s money tip you will learn:
-Why she advocates checking your numbers every day
-What weight and wealth management have in common
-How she uses Mint
-How checking your finances can help catch financial fraud or hackers
In My Take you will learn:
-My mothers suprising negotiating technique
-How I got a salary above my ‘reach’ range by using it
-My dad’s philosophy on how companies show appreciation
-How to handle being offered a higher title and more responsibility- without a pay bump
Episode Links:
Find out more about Farnoosh’s course “Personal Finance for Grads” on Investopedia.com by going to academy.investopedia.com and look for Personal Finance for Grads.
Be sure to use the code FARNOOSH20 to get 20% off the $99 course lifetime access.
Farnoosh also mentions Mint, where you can also check out her columns.
You can learn more about Farnoosh Torabi on her website http://farnoosh.tv/
Follower her on social media:
Twitter: @FARNOOSH
Instagram @farnooshtorabi
Facebook: www.facebook.com/FarnooshTorabi
Listen to the So Money podcast on itunes
And check out my episode from when How to be a Financial Grownup came out!
Transcription
Farnoosh Torabi:
I was in my mid 20s, wanting to get a raise at my job, kept asking over and over again to no avail. Finally, my father clued me in to this term that was really ground-breaking for me.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, what were the magic words my guest's father told her about? And no, they were not, "I quit," or anything like that. But I do promise you, friends, you will learn a lot about the harsh reality of trying to pry more money out of a current employer, emphasis on current.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're also going to learn a whole lot about the power of information. My guest is Farnoosh Torabi. She is a big name in the personal finance space. You probably know her as the host of the So Money podcast. She's also the author of a growing list of best-selling books, which began with the, You're So Money; Live Rich Even when You're Not, published in 2008, and her most recent, When She Makes More. She also has a red hot course on Investopedia on personal finance. What else? I'm going to ask her about it. Here is Farnoosh Torabi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Farnoosh Torabi, you are a financial grownup, and I am so excited to be chatting with you today.
Farnoosh Torabi:
I'm so glad that I earned this designation. Financial grownup, how great. Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so happy you're here, and you're definitely a grownup, and by the way, I have you to thank for inspiring me to do this podcast. It was something that I was thinking about for a while, and we had a little conversation in the green room at the 92nd Street Y before a conference, and that was kind of the final push that I needed. So, I am forever grateful, so thank you.
Farnoosh Torabi:
Oh my gosh. Well, I'm glad to help. I'm happy to serve. I'm in. So wonderful that you're doing this. It makes a hundred thousand percent sense.
Bobbi Rebell:
Women podcasting about personal finance is a category that we want to grow, so we're all in this together. Speaking of growing, you are moving into courses. You have a really cool new thing happening with one of my favorite websites, Investopedia.
Farnoosh Torabi:
Investopedia.com basically brought my dreams to life. I've always wanted to do a money course, but as you know, as people listening know, a course is a big project. It's not just the teaching of the course, but it's the marketing, the infrastructure, the sales, the production, and frankly, all that just made me get dizzy and not feel like at all interested. I just wanted to show up and teach.
Bobbi Rebell:
But this is where you say, "It was worth it, though."
Farnoosh Torabi:
It was worth it. Well, they came to me and they're like, "We'll do all the back end stuff if you can just show up and teach," and that was music to my ears. So, together in collaboration, we created a nine-module money course, catered to graduates, people who are just recently out of college, young adults. They're getting their first paycheck, their first real paycheck, and they want to learn how to maximize it, how to make the most of that weekly/monthly paycheck.
Farnoosh Torabi:
So, you're going to learn about how to budget, how to save, how to invest properly, how to earn more, as salaries have been stagnant for a long time, so really excited about that.
Farnoosh Torabi:
If you go to academy.investopedia.com, and you look for Personal Finance for Grads, that's the new name of the course. We ended up switching it, because we wanted it to be really specific about who we were targeting. Personal Finance for Grads. And if you use the code, FARNOOSH20, you'll get 20% off. It's just 99 bucks, but you'll get another 20 bucks off with that code, FARNOOSH20.
Bobbi Rebell:
And also, maybe a good graduation present. Just a couple of months from now, people will be graduating. It's a really good thing, even if you're not a graduate, to think about gifting to someone.
Farnoosh Torabi:
Great idea. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for that plug. It's lifetime access, so whether you buy it now, or in six months, or today, you'll have it forever.
Bobbi Rebell:
Good stuff, and by the way, when I was studying for my CFP, Investopedia was my go-to destination when you're looking for some arcane financial term, they have it all there, so that's my nod to Investopedia.
Farnoosh Torabi:
Well, they're the largest resource for financial information, so makes sense that you were able to bank on their definitions.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right, no one would have some of these terms, but they have everything there, so they're a good place to check out, and get your course.
Bobbi Rebell:
But I also want to talk to you about the money story that you have brought today, because it has something that I would love to do, which is that it doubled your salary. So, tell me. How exactly did you double your salary?
Farnoosh Torabi:
I was in my mid 20s, wanting to get a raise at my job, kept asking, over and over again, to no avail. Finally, my father clued me in to this term that was really ground-breaking for me. It was what's known as your salary range or your salary band. It's information that human resources typically has at the ready to give you. They're not going to voluntarily give this to you, but it is your right to know.
Farnoosh Torabi:
So, I went to HR, because what this salary band essentially tells you, is what your employer has budgeted for your job, for your post. At the time, I was a producer. I discovered through HR that the salary band for my job at this particular new station, was anywhere from $44,000 up to $85,000/$90,000.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's a big range.
Farnoosh Torabi:
That's a big range, and guess what? I was on the very low end of that range, despite having been there going on three years, doing multiple jobs that were above and beyond my original job requirements-
Bobbi Rebell:
And they didn't just come to you and say, "You're working really hard. Let's just give you [crosstalk 00:06:09]-
Farnoosh Torabi:
No.
Bobbi Rebell:
No, really? That's shocking.
Farnoosh Torabi:
When did that ever happen? So, I was taking all the right steps, but this was gold, you know, learning actually what my company at the most, valued me at, was gold. Now, I will say that I used that in my next meeting with my boss, "Since I have some updates, I discovered that I actually can make up to, you know, $90,000 in this role. I've been here for three years. I'm still at the very low end. I'm like in the fifth percentile of this range, so I'm not saying I want to make $90,000, but I do think we could bump me up like five or ten K." And it was, "Okay, maybe when we review budgets." It wasn't like a done deal.
Farnoosh Torabi:
So, then I started to really see the handwriting on the wall, started to look outside for a new job. When I got interviews, I never forgot that salary range, and when I finally got close to a deal at this new employer, and they were talking money, they said, "How much do you want to make?" And I remembered that range, because that range was not ... Look, remember that's not just a range probably for your employer, but it's industry norms.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right, companies know what's going on in their sector.
Farnoosh Torabi:
They know what's going on, and this new job that I was interviewing for, was a step up for me, and it was a more senior position, so that range was probably not even valid, but I used it as a baseline. So I said, "I would like to make $100,000." They said, "Well, we don't have a hundred, but we can give you 80."
Bobbi Rebell:
That sounds good.
Farnoosh Torabi:
I said, "Okay, well, you know what? I really, really want a hundred," and they said, "Well, why don't we start at 80, and then in six months we'll review where you're at, and we'll discuss maybe giving you a hundred at that point."
Farnoosh Torabi:
And I'm like, "Okay. This is the time to take all the money you can." When you're in negotiations. In six months, they're not even going to remember what they said about some meeting they wanted to have with you.
Farnoosh Torabi:
So, I said, "Look, can I have 90, and then I won't bother you in six months."
Bobbi Rebell:
I like that.
Farnoosh Torabi:
And they said, "Sure," nice and clean. And you know, so effectively, I doubled my salary. I went from 45 to 90, and I owe credit to knowing that salary range.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, Farnoosh, what is the lesson from your Financial Grownup money story?
Farnoosh Torabi:
The lesson is, you have to be your biggest advocate. You have to continually be curious about what it is you're after. So, I was not going to take "No," for an answer from my boss, and I just kept exploring, and digging, and questioning, "How can I make more money?"
Farnoosh Torabi:
And I talked to my family about it. It ended up my dad was the one who told me about this salary band thing, which I had no idea about. If I hadn't told him about it, I probably wouldn't have walked into HR, and asked them for the number, so don't give up. You know, a "No," is one step closer to a "Yes." As long as you stay curious, and determined.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, let me ask you. Do you have a day-to-day money tip, an everyday thing that you can recommend to people that they can implement right away?
Farnoosh Torabi:
Implement right away. I would say check your numbers every day. Look, I don't do this all the time, but I do step on a scale quite frequently, because I want to make sure that, you know, if I had a pretty crazy weekend of eating, I can check in with myself. I keep myself accountable. Like I'm, "Okay, I've gained a few pounds. I need to be mindful of what I'm putting in my mouth this week."
Farnoosh Torabi:
Your money's the same thing. Like you might have a week or a month where you overspend. It's important to know where you're at at all times, so that you can adjust. You can continually readjust and adjust and fine-tune your finances, but you're never going to be able to do that unless you have the knowledge of where you are financially.
Farnoosh Torabi:
So, on my phone, I am constantly checking my bank balance, my credit card balance. I check my Mint app, just to see am I over-spending, under-spending? I set budget limits for myself. This maybe isn't an every-hour or an every-day thing, but it certainly should be a regular, maybe twice to five times a week kind of thing.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, it's also smart to check in because there's so much hacking and fraud, that this way you spot it.
Farnoosh Torabi:
Absolutely, right. For that reason alone, you should be checking your bank account.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you for all the amazing advice, and thank you for being part of this new program. We really appreciate it.
Farnoosh Torabi:
My pleasure. Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take, guys. Part of being a financial grownup is taking advice from your parents. I'm not always the best negotiator. I'm going to toss this one to my parents, and share some advice that they have given me over the years.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup negotiating strategy number one, courtesy of Adele Rebell, the Just Keep Your Mouth Shut technique, meaning let the other person say the first number.
Bobbi Rebell:
True story, I once had a number in mind as a reach for a job. I didn't think I was going to get anywhere near that kind of money, but I kept my mouth shut, let them make the first move, and the offer came in $10,000 higher than that reach number.
Bobbi Rebell:
Then, I sat there. I was calm, cool, collected, pretended it wasn't enough money, asked for more, and you know what? I got another $5,000.
Bobbi Rebell:
Bonus tip, by the way, from my mother, the Keep Your Mouth Shut strategy can also work for losing weight. I'm a CFP, not a nutritionist, but guys, it does work, because of course you eat less food.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, back to our focus on money. Financial Grownup strategy number two, comes from my father, Arthur Rebell. Companies show love and appreciation with money. Companies may try to distract you with a fancy new title and lots of new responsibilities, but then they don't give you a meaningful raise.
Bobbi Rebell:
Imagine if you tried to pay your Visa bill by saying, "Well, my budget's tight, but I'm going to call you my Senior Global Credit Card. Yeah, not so much. Take the higher title, and say "Yes," to moving up in terms of responsibilities. That's all good, but just know, it is not the same as a raise. Companies show love through compensation, aka money. So try to keep the focus on the money.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for the amazing feedback that we have already been getting on the program. It is truly appreciated. Please subscribe, download, share, review, rate, all that good stuff. We need it. We are a brand new podcast. All of your support means the world to us.
Bobbi Rebell:
I hope everyone enjoyed the show, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.
After 148 rejections in the first funding round, Kathryn Minshew co-founder and CEO of the Muse took note of what she did wrong and upped her game when she went looking for new financing. Minshew scored close to $30 million thanks to the new approach.
In Kathryn’s money story you will learn
-How Kathryn and the Muse team re-vamped their strategy the second time they raised money
-How Kathryn rebounded from the 148 rejections in the seed round of financing
-How The Muse raised $30 million from investors
-How they were able to ask for less money and come out with more than the original targets
-The way Kathryn structured her process when pitching investors
-How they organized their pitches and research to be more effective
-Kathryn’s investor prioritization strategy
-The specific thing Kathryn said to investors to get them to the table faster- and with more interest in her company
-How a second round of financing is different- and should be approached differently from a seed round
In Kathryn’s lesson you will learn:
-The advice Kathryn found most helpful from her networks and mentors
-How she got help from other entrepreneurs
-How to tell if the investors are wrong not to invest- or if your idea and pitch is missing the mark
-How to figure out who your end users are- and why it is important
-Strategies and specific things to ask in order to get honest input about your company
In Kathryn’s money tip you will learn:
-Negotiations can be about more than just cash
-How to ask for signing bonuses, signing bonuses, flextime, vacation time, better titles.
-Why budgets for professional training are essential and how to negotiate for them
In my take you will learn:
-How to learn lessons from rejection, and incorporate them in your next venture
-The importance of taking the time to throughtfully plan and customize presentations and pitches
-How to level the playing field even when the other party is clearly more powerful.
Episode links:
TheMuse.com
Kathryn’s book with Muse co-founder Alexandra Cavoulacos The New Rules of Work
Follow Kathryn and The Muse!
Instagram @kminshew @themuse
Twitter: @Kmin and @TheMuse and @TheNewRules
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/thedailymuse
https://www.facebook.com/minshew
Transcription
Kathryn Minshew:
If you tell someone you're the founder of a company and ask for their input, they are more likely to give you positive impact because they don't want to hurt your feelings. If you tell them that you're a consultant helping a company understand how its market positioning lands, or helping a company better understand what it's doing well and what it's not, people are much more likely to give you totally unfiltered feedback for the series A because I was running a process.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to "Financial Grownup" with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup". You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everybody. This is an episode about rejection, and what you would do differently the second time around. How to tell were they wrong to reject you? Maybe your message could be a little bit more on point. The Muse founder and CEO, Kathryn Minshew has told the story many times of how she and her colleagues were rejected 148 times when they when to raise money for their startup, The Muse. Once the company got off the ground, it has been a massive success, and many people would say, "Well, those 148 people, they must be so sorry that they rejected it." And of course, that is true to some extent. But also, Kathryn looks back and realizes she had a lot that she would do differently the next time. And in fact, she did do it differently when she went back for the next round of financing, and that's what we talked about. Here is Kathryn Minshew.
Bobbi Rebell:
Kathryn Minshew, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the program.
Kathryn Minshew:
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you are well known as the founder and CEO of The Muse, the amazing job site, and also well known for being rejected when you went to raise money. Tell me how many, 140 something times?
Kathryn Minshew:
148 times. It was like rejection for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, with a few meetings and noes inbetween for fun.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you are the queen of resilience, and one thing that you talk about in your book, "The New Rules of Work", which I should have mentioned to everybody. She is the author of a fabulous career book called "The New Rules of Work".
Bobbi Rebell:
You talk about your personal brand, and how important it is to define it. That fundraising and the lack of it for so long became your personal brand. So you brought with you a money story that has to do with what happened next, after you finally did get the initial funding and you went back for me. Tell us.
Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. Well, first of all, I'll say it's much easier as we all know to talk about failure once you've moved past it. So it became much easier to tell the story of the 148 noes after we had already successfully raised our series A and B rounds. So we've raised almost $30 million in venture capital so far for The Muse.
Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing.
Kathryn Minshew:
It's been a totally wild ride. So my financial story involves what I set out to do, or rather what I did in the series A to ensure that we had an outcome that was very different than the seed round. Because, obviously, I knew how important it was for that next round, to get it right from the go-ahead. And so to try and condense the story into something very quick, we wanted to go out and initially we were thinking about raising six to $7 million. But actually given the advice that I got while preparing for a fundraise, we were actually told to start out saying we were thinking five to six or five to seven, and then slowly let the demand build. So instead of us going out for a big number and being less sure if the market would respond, start out with a smaller number. And then, if the market is really excited about our business, let the negotiations and the demand push it up, which ended up working really well for us because we ended up raising 10 million after we had overwhelming demand.
Kathryn Minshew:
I also was incredibly structured about the process probably because I was a little bit paranoid after having such a difficult time with our seed round. So ahead of time, I really worked the story, got all of our metrics out there. I thought about how best to position them, which numbers to lead with, what to put first so that we could really grab people's attention. We were obviously lucky in that we had really great revenue growth and a lot of very strong metrics.
Kathryn Minshew:
And then, I actually created a spreadsheet. I took all of the investors that I was even remotely interested in talking to. I put them in a spreadsheet. Divided it up by location, so that when I was in New York, San Francisco, Boston, Chicago, DC, et cetera, I could meet with people who were there. Then, I included information about whether they had invested in any similar companies, any competitors. Any companies that might give them a better understanding into what we did at The Muse. I would include notes from different meetings. I actually would also rank how excited I was after each meeting to continue conversations, so I could prioritize the ones that I was most excited about. I would say that really helped to keep me on track, and so we were also able to run a pretty tight process, where we pinned all of our first meetings with investors to the same two-and-a-half or three-week period.
Kathryn Minshew:
It was really interesting because in the seed round, we had a lot of trouble with investors saying, "Oh, I'm busy, right now. But how about in a month?" I wasn't confident enough in the business, so we would just take whatever we could get for the series A because I was running a process. I would write back to people and be like, "You know I'd love to talk, but unfortunately, I need to get all of our first meetings done by X date. So I can push it a few days, but let me know if you're going to be able to make it work. And if not, I'm totally fine. We'll keep in touch and maybe there'll be another round that you can participate in." And what was fascinating is a lot of people would say, "Oh, let me move around my schedule. Absolutely, I can make it work." And suddenly, we were negotiating from a more even position. And the ones that weren't able to or the ones that said, "No, sorry. I can't do it," they probably would have never backed the company to begin with.
Bobbi Rebell:
True. Do you think looking back, obviously when you were going for the most money, the second round, you were a stronger situation to begin with. But had you used the techniques that you were now using that you just talked about, would you have had more success the first time?
Kathryn Minshew:
You know, maybe. It's so hard to know because the seed round for a startup is really different than later rounds because people aren't necessarily looking at your metrics. They are to some extent, but they're really betting on you. And I think the fact that it was my first proper company that I was fairly young at the time, this was six-and-a-half years ago, so it was very early in my career. And I think that plus the lack of knowledge or understanding about what we were trying to do in the business were some of the biggest concerns. So I do think we could have had a better time and controlled the process a bit more, but I also think there were just some fundamental and structural things that we had to get through and really prove on very limited capital before we could really go out and successfully fundraise from bigger investors.
Bobbi Rebell:
So now, what is your advice to listeners and especially want-to-be entrepreneurs that are looking to raise money, start businesses, and especially to young women?
Kathryn Minshew:
I would say, firstly, you can't understate the importance of perseverance because it is so hard in the early days. But I think that doesn't mean that you just keep doing the same thing without adjusting your tactics and thinking about how you could be more strategic. I found it to be so invaluable to get the advice from others, especially other female entrepreneurs. Because sometimes we have a lot of great friends who are entrepreneurs, who are men, but sometimes the tactics or the approaches or behaviors that would work for them, didn't work the same when I did them because of unintentional or unconscious bias or other things. And so I found that it was really helpful to surround myself with a network of entrepreneurs of both genders to get a lot of advice, to test out different approaches to see what felt natural and normal to me. Because if it feels too unnatural to you, investors will probably pick up on that, and it won't help you communicate that confidence that you are looking for when you're starting to talk to investors about your business.
Bobbi Rebell:
So one last question about this for our listeners, how do you know the difference between maybe your idea just isn't that good, and that's why you're not getting funding and you should stop, or you should persevere as you did because your idea just isn't hitting the right people at the right time with the right message?
Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. So you've just gotten to the crux of what makes this so hard, which is that there is no silver bullet, and you will never have 100% confidence or certainty either way, which is incredibly difficult. However, I think there are a few things you can use to help you directionally get that sense of whether your business is likely to be successful. The first, and I think the most important is to figure out who are your end users and do as much as possible to get unfiltered feedback from them.
Kathryn Minshew:
For example, if you tell someone you're the founder of a company and ask for their input, they're more likely to give you positive input because they don't want to hurt your feelings. If you tell them that you're a consultant helping a company understand how its marketing positioning lands or helping a company better understand what its doing well and what it's not, people are much more likely to give you totally unfiltered feedback, and you need that unfiltered feedback when you're trying to ascertain if you really need to keep pushing forward on your business.
Kathryn Minshew:
So in my case, even though we were getting rejection, after rejection, after rejection from a lot of investors, we were hearing things from our users and from people who were signing up to use The Muse that indicated we had tapped a nerve and we were on a path that people love. They wanted us to use the product. They'd say I love The Muse, but can you do these five things? Make it better here. Change this. That's all positive feedback because that shows you that there is a need. You just have to keep getting better, and I think that is what gave me the oomph to keep going. But I will just call out it's not like I knew the whole time, oh my gosh, this is a great idea. I just have to keep going. I definitely struggled with whether I should accept that these people that were much more experienced than I, that were successful investors, maybe they knew something I didn't, and I just had hubris.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's do a money tip. You are the career guru, and you have so many amazing ideas and tips in your book. I wanted to pull some out of there and get maybe your favorite tips that people can use in their careers, and their ventures that they could maybe put to work ASAP at their next job interview or their next negotiation, what have it.
Kathryn Minshew:
I thought through a lot of different things I could share here, and the one I came up with that I wanted to talk about today is the fact that when you negotiate, it is not just all about cash and I think it can be really empowering to realize that because so many of us have anxiety about negotiating a salary, negotiating a raise. Whether it's at the beginning of a job search, or when you're getting a promotion. But I would encourage people, remember that there are a lot of other things you can negotiate for.
Kathryn Minshew:
So obviously, base salary is the thing that people talk about most. But what about signing bonuses, performance bonuses if you achieve certain things? You can also negotiate for flex time, for vacation time, for a better title that might help you in your career. One of the most creative things that I've heard is people negotiating for a budget for professional development and training.
Bobbi Rebell:
Specific money. In other words, not just saying, "Will you send me," in theory. It's very specific.
Kathryn Minshew:
Oh, very specific. In fact, there was someone at an organization that had mandatory salary bans that the leadership wasn't able to go beyond, and so she said great. Why don't you dedicate ... I think it was five or $10,000 towards training development conference that will include my travel, and that will help level me up to be a better employee for you, to let me do my job better, and it won't invalidate the salary cap. This will just be another way that you're investing in my growth, and they said yes, and I think that is such a great example of creativity when it comes to negotiation.
Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. That's such great advice. Thank you so much. Tell us quickly before we wrap up, what are you guys up to at The Muse these day, and where can people find you?
Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. So people can find me at The Muse or @kmin on Twitter. As a company, we are doing a lot right now, but we have been really focusing on we rolled out a new feature called Discussions on TheMuse.com, where people can ask and answer each other's questions. So if you have a career question or you want to learn more about negotiating a raise, we've got a way now to get advice from our community and hear other people's stories. And then, I'm also just kind of fascinated down the road by continuing to explore this idea of how people make the best career decisions, how they find the right fits, and how we help companies tell their stories in a more genuine and authentic way that isn't about just come work here, we're great, but really shares the information people need to know to decide do I want to be part of that organization, or be part of that company?
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Here's my take on what Kathryn had to say.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip, number one. Like she did, do your homework, including learning what went wrong the first time. Even if you think the companies or whomever you were pitching to were wrong to reject your idea, we all have room for improvement. Kathryn went out and asked for advice, for example, about how much money to ask for. She actually went for a smaller number based on the advice as a strategy, and ended up raising more money, so it worked. She was also much more organized and structured in her preparations the second time around. She was specific to each company, and deliberate in her presentation. She planned geographically, so she could be efficient with her time. Kathryn even ranked how excited she was about prospects, so she could prioritize and focus on her resources and the best alow there.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip, number two. Stand up for yourself, even if you need them more than they need you. In Kathryn's second round, when prospects said they didn't have the time to meet with her any time soon, she pushed back and was not only able to get them to the table faster when they were interested, but also to level the playing field for a stronger negotiating position.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for listening to this episode of financial grownup. Please subscribe if you have not already. Reviews are great if you have just a few minutes. You can follow me @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and learn more about the show at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. I hope that you all enjoyed this episode of "Financial Grownups" with The Muse's Kathryn Minshew, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
"Financial Grownup" with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart, and is a BRK Media production.
Shark Tank’s Kevin O’Leary shares a story about his mother and a secret he learned about after she passed away. The Entrepreneur, who is also behind O’Shares and O’Leary Ventures reveals in the story how his mothers choices informed his investing style, which is heavily focused on dividends.
He goes on to discuss the two types of investments his mother chose, including her thinking and mindset in making those choices.
O'Leary also talks about the importance of the tax changes and why that is something that will benefit investors who follow his strategy.
In his money tip Kevin explains how people who can’t save can find the money to get on track. He also reveals another lesson from his mother that was a bit surprise. O'Leary also shares his 90 day money test that he does with his wealthy friends to help them stay rich.
O'Leary talks about an app that he launched called Beanstox that allows investors to buy small dollar amounts of ETF’s and market-leading stocks. It gets people into investing without having to commit large amounts of capital up-front.
Links to things mentioned in this episode
Kevin O’Leary’s financial literacy books the Cold Hard Truth series can be found here.
His app to start investing can be found at Beanstox
To learn more about the companies he backs as well as his wine business and more, go to O’LEARY VENTURES
Kevin also talked about his ETF business O'Shares
In his story about his mom he spoke about Chanel and Gucci
Books I recommended in the episode:
The Opposite of Spoiled by Ron Lieber
Smart Money Smart Kids, Raising the next generation to win with money by Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruz
Make your Kid a Money Genius even if you are not by Beth Kobliner
Money A-Z Scott Alan Turner
Steve Jobs, The man who thought different by Karen Blumenthal
I also mention Fincon which is a fantastic conference for anyone who creates content about money,
Transcription
Kevin O'Leary:
The executor called me and said, "Look, your mother has kept a secret account from both of your husbands her whole life, you should come here because you're not going to be executor of this".
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grown Up, and you know what, being the grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, welcome to this edition of Financial Grown Up, and for those of you who have not guessed yet, yes that was the voice of Kevin O'Leary, aka Mr. Wonderful on Shark Tank. He is going to join us in just a moment to share a story about a secret, a financial lesson secret that he learned from his mother only after she passed away. It is a great story and it's gonna change your whole mindset about how you think about investing, so stick with me here. I just want to do a quick introduction to Kevin, tell you guys a little bit more about him for the maybe one or two people out there that don't know exactly who Kevin O'Leary is.
Bobbi Rebell:
He is a serial entrepreneur. He's got his own ventures including an investment company that focuses on dividend ETS. He also is in the wine business and of course, O'Leary Venture supports all the Shark Tank companies that he's invested in. Recent success of note, Plated, which he sold for a cool 300 million dollars. He's also got a really interesting app I want you guys to hear about and you will hear about it in just a moment. Here is Kevin O'Leary.
Bobbi Rebell:
Kevin O'Leary you are a financial grown up and I'm so excited you are on the podcast. Welcome.
Kevin O'Leary:
Great to be here. Thank you so much.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you are, of course, so special in my heart because you are such an advocate for financial literacy. You make it part of everything that you do, including your entrepreneurial ventures. Before we get to the financial grown up moment that you're gonna share with us, I do wanna have you tell us more about the app Beanstox. Tell us about Beanstox.
Kevin O'Leary:
You know, for the last few years I've been teaching at colleges and high schools and I've just been stunned by the fact that we teach young people in America pretty well everything about math and reading, geography, even sex education, but we never talk to them about financial literacy. We never teach them how to invest, and even when I teach graduating cohorts of engineers at places like MIT, Harvard, Notre Dame, Temple, I'm blown away that these young people going off in the workforce have never bought a stock or bonds.
Kevin O'Leary:
So, the genesis of Beanstox, and I've spelt it B-E-A-N-S-T-O-X, is an app. You download it and it allows you to buy fractional shares of your favorite stocks or exchange traded funds, which means if you only have $2 to invest, or $5, or $10 or whatever you've got, you can actually own a real share and learn about how the prices go up and down, when dividends get paid, and just to build a diversified portfolio. I find when you do that on your mobile device, you actually watch it every day. Some people go on 10 times a day, and I've just been thrilled.
Kevin O'Leary:
Hundreds of thousands of them have been downloaded now. People have set up accounts, even if they only put in 50 bucks a month, it's great to start investing because the truth about America is the average salary is $52,000 a year, and if you started investing just 10% of your income at the age of 22, by the time you're 65, if the markets do what they have done for the last 50 years, which is give you six to seven percent a year of return, you'll have 1.2 million dollars sitting in the bank for-
Bobbi Rebell:
Very nice, all right, everybody check out Beanstox now. I'm really excited for you to share your financial grown up moment money story because my mom passed away a few years ago and it's, in some ways, only in retrospect that I learned some really important lessons from her, and you learned a big lesson from your mom at that time.
Kevin O'Leary:
Yes, when she passed away, I was the older son. I'm two years older than my brother, so the executer called me and said, "Look, your mother's kept a secret account from both of her husbands her whole life, you should come here because you're now gonna be the executor of this" and when I got there, I was blown away. I mean she ... I had always wondered how she'd provided for my brother and I, her sisters, and her extended family. She always seemed to have money, and what she had done is she had done exactly that.
Kevin O'Leary:
She had put aside more than 10% of her paycheck when she was a young woman, and she invested in two types of securities. 50% of this portfolio were in large cap dividend paying stocks, and the other half were in Telco bonds, five to seven year bonds and her thinking was that nobody would ever let their phone be disconnected by not paying their bill, so she trusted Telco Company, and this portfolio, over 50 years, outperformed everybody else in the family's, so I did some research.
Kevin O'Leary:
It really changed my mind forever about investing. 70% of the returns of the stock market over the last 50 years have come from dividends, not capital appreciation, so I never buy a stock today that doesn't pay a dividend. I learned that from my mother, and her whole mantra was never spend the principle, only the interest. She was so right about that.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it's interesting because that really did inform your whole approach to investing and your whole business, when it comes to your ETF business.
Kevin O'Leary:
Yes. O'Shares is build around her philosophy. We don't have a single security in any of our O'Shares funds, including the new midcap one OUSM. The reason I'm really intrigued with midcap stocks in America today, the ones that pay dividends, is because of this tax reform. They used to pay 36% tax, now they pay 21, so their cash flows this year are going to grow up by 15 to 20% more free cash. And if you look at the Russell 2,000, which is the universe of all the small companies in America, 339 are profitable and pay tax, and they're all captured in OUSM.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, all right so, what is the take away lesson from that story? Do you wish, for example, that you talked to your mom more about her money philosophy and what she was doing?
Kevin O'Leary:
Basically the take away story is this. When you start saving, there's two aspects to your saving. There's the principal, the money you're putting away, and then there's the interest you make off the principal, or the dividends you get if you bought a stock. What she basically said was it's okay to spend and live off the dividends and interest, but it's not okay to spend the principal, because once you spend the principal, you never get it back.
Kevin O'Leary:
The principal is what makes the money for you, so that philosophy is, you live off interest, you live off dividends, and that's how you monetize your lifestyle, but you never dip in to your principal. Some people say, well I really wanna buy a boat, I wanna buy a bigger house, I wanna buy something and I can't because I don't make enough, and they spend their principal. That always ends badly.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, all right. Your mom was definitely a financial grown up and certainly we appreciate you sharing what she taught you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Before you go, give us a money tip for our listeners. Something that you do that maybe they can emulate that can make a difference in their financial wellbeing right now. Something they can implement today.
Kevin O'Leary:
I've learned this years and years ago, and again taught to by my mother. When you go out every day, the whole world is designed to take money from you. That's how they market and tell you to buy this or get a new latte or buy new jeans or a new pair of shoes. Every time you get tempted to buy something, and I do this even to this day, I ask myself, do I really need this thing, do I really need it because when I take it, I take my cash and I buy it, I'm basically killing those dollars in terms of them making me interest or dividends because I bought those shoes or I bought those pants or I bought whatever it was.
Kevin O'Leary:
People say to me, well I can't save 10% of my salary. I'm living paycheck to paycheck, and I always remind them what my mother said, yes you can. You buy so much crap that you don't need and anybody can look in their closet and look at all the stuff they don't wear anymore. The shoes they don't wear or the junk they bought, and so I've really, really learned, buy really good things once in a while. And I'll tell you the anecdotal story.
Kevin O'Leary:
When my mother passed away, the women in my family fought like cats or dogs because all her clothes were Channel and Gucci and really good stuff that she kept for decades, but she didn't buy any crap, and that was her lesson to me. Buy a good suit. Buy a great pair of shoes, but don't buy a bunch of junk. That way you feel good about what you own, but you save a lot of money, and I've been able to cut my spending by a ton because I don't buy crap, and because she taught me that.
Kevin O'Leary:
Even wealthy people I work with, I do this special test with them, I say get a piece of paper, just two sheets, you don't need any technology.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh no.
Kevin O'Leary:
And write down all of the things you make money from in 90 days, and all the money you spend in 90 days, and even really wealthy people outspend their income, and they learned sobering basis. That's my lesson. Do your 90 day test, but don't buy crap. You don't need it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much Kevin O'Leary. It was such a pleasure having you. We will all keep tuning in to Shark Tank and all your other ventures, thank you.
Kevin O'Leary:
Take care.
Bobbi Rebell:
I always love talking with Kevin O'Leary, he's an amazing advocate for financial literacy and such an inspiration. Here is my take and it probably won't surprise you guys. Financial grown up tip number one, talk to your parents about money, and yes, get their advice, but also try to get them to open up about what they did right and also, just as important, what they would have done differently. Get them to share their financial grown up moments, their money stories. When we're kids, our parents often shelter us from what is really going on behind the scenes in our daily lives.
Bobbi Rebell:
For example, I remember as a teenager, my family moved into a bigger and newer house. Now, I didn't think that much about it, when I saw my mom putting towels over the windows. It was a little weird, but you know parents can be weird. What I learned later on was that they had really stretched to buy the house, and they were waiting, holding off to buy the window coverings, so my mom was basically making due with what she had, and really, it was just fine, no big deal.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, financial grown up tip number two, if and when you have kids, make a plan for how you want them to learn about money. There is no right or wrong plan here, every kid has different ways of learning and every family has different things that are right for them. Find out what works for you guys.
Bobbi Rebell:
Some resources though, I am a big fan of a book called The Opposite Of Spoiled by Ron Lieber. Another classic to check out, Smart Money, Smart Kids by Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruise, and finally, Make Your Kid A Money Genius by Beth Kobliner. Check them out. And, for fun, I was recently gifted a book at FinCon by Scott Allen Turner called Money A To Z. It was a lot of fun to read with my child, and of course, don't shy away from business stories for kids, especially as they get older.
Bobbi Rebell:
Harry is now 10 and we are reading about Steve Jobs. The actual book title if you guys wanna check it out is Steve Jobs The Man Who Thought Different. It is by Karen Blumenthal. It's opening up a lot of discussions about funding a start up and all the different things that go into a business. It's also interesting to read about Steve Jobs and all of his personal quirks, so I will leave it to you guys to see if you wanna read that book with your children or just check it out yourself.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for listening to Financial Grown Up. We are new and we need your support. Please subscribe to this podcast and then of course, be sure to rate and review it on iTunes and especially please share this with your friends. And until next time, I am wishing all of you financial freedom.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is a BRK Media production.
Fran Hauser became a financial grownup very young, helping her immigrant parents build their businesses by doing the books and serving as a liaison to clients as early as 1st grade. The author of “The Myth of the Nice Girl, Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate” now applies those early life lessons to her search for startup investment opportunities.
In Fran’s money story you will learn:
-How growing up as the english speaking daughter of Italian immigrants impacted her path to being a financial grownup
-What it was like to be preparing invoices for her parents businesses starting in 1st grade
-What she learned about risk and investment from observing her father’s strategies
-How her parents took risks despite their disadvantages, and the impact that had on her current risk tolerance
-How she integrates those skills when she considers startup investors in her current role as an early stage investor
-The specific characteristics she looks for when evaluating startups
In Fran’s money lesson you will learn:
-How to conquer fear of mistakes
-The importance of integrating kindness and respect
In Fran’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-How Fran teachers her children about money using a 5 gallon water jug
-How much they saved
-How they spent the money!
In My Take you will learn:
-The impact of saying Thank You instead of Sorry
-How the correct tone in which a message is delivered can make it more effective
Bobbi and Fran also talk about:
-Her new book The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate
-What inspired Fran to write the book after more than a decade of planning
-The unique scripts that are in the book that readers can use to execute the strategies Fran teaches
-What the Nice Girl Army is, and how you can laern more about it
-Fran’s plans now that the book has been a best seller!
Episode Links:
Learn more about Fran at her website Franhauser.com
Buy Fran’s book! http://www.franhauser.com/nicegirl/
Follow Fran!
instagram fran_hauser
twitter @fran_hauser
Transcription
Fran Hauser:
When my father was asked to go look at a job, a potential client, and give them an estimate, he wasn't able to understand the directions to actually get to the house. So I would listen in on another phone and write down the directions, and then I would go in the car to the residence, and then I would get out and I basically be the translator.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, that was author, Fran Hauser. Now, this is a very big interview for me because she is very much in demand after her book, The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate, became a huge hit this summer. It has many of us rethinking the things that women thought we had to do to succeed. No more mean girls, and there's a lot in there for men as well. So stay with me everyone, this is not just for women listeners. Special welcome to our new listeners, if you are returning, thank you as well for your support. We keep the shows to about 15 minutes so you can easily fit it into your busy schedule, but we also release three episodes a week. So feel free to binge if you're commuting, just make sure to select auto download after you subscribe so that they'll be in your feed automatically. It's all about making it easy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Fran. After a long career in media, which included being the president of digital at Time, she is now an investor in startups, and she got a lot of the training for that from her upbringing being a very active part of her parents businesses. Here is Fran Hauser.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Fran Hauser, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Fran Hauser:
Hi Bobbi, great to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the incredible success of your book, The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love, circled in a bright red circle, Without Becoming a Person You Hate, big X over the 'Hate' of course. Since the book's come out it's been named so many different things, including an Amazon Best Business Book of 2018, best new book by People magazine and Refinery 29, most anticipated title of April by Bustle, I mean I could just basically go on. Congratulations on all of that, Fran.
Fran Hauser:
Oh thank you. It's really been amazing, I feel so grateful.
Bobbi Rebell:
You came to us with a story that's really meaningful, because it has to do with your whole family and the money experiences that you learned growing up from your parents, in the town where my sister now lives, Mount Kisco, and you were their bookkeeper in their businesses in first grade, tell us about that.
Fran Hauser:
Yes. So my parents are Italian immigrants who moved to Mount Kisco, as you said, and like many immigrants it took a lot of courage to make this move. They were uneducated, they didn't speak the language, and they were moving to a place that was completely foreign to them. What each of my parents did have though, was a skill. So my father was a stonemason, my mother was really good at sewing, so they both started small businesses. My dad a stonemeasonry business, and my mom opened up a tailoring shop with her best friend. Being the oldest of four, they needed my help, especially when it came to communication. So when I was in first grade I was preparing all of my dad's invoices. One memory that I have is I could only add at that point in time, I couldn't multiply yet, so my aunt actually created a sales tax chart for me, so that if the monthly maintenance was $300, I could see exactly what the sales tax was, and then just add the two numbers together.
Fran Hauser:
So that was first grade, and then even in middle school I was helping my mother with marketing. So helping her come up with a logo, and getting different marketing and sales materials printed. So I got exposed to business at a very young age, and even understanding things like revenue, and expense, cashflow, you know seeing that when more cash comes in than goes out, decisions that need to be made around what to do with that extra money. It was really interested watching my dad because he took some calculated risks and invested in both commercial and residential real estate, which proved to be fruitful. I would say at a very, very, very young age I played this role of bookkeeper/marketer/general manager.
Fran Hauser:
Another vivid memory I have that I'll just share with you is when my father was asked to go look at a job, a potential client, and give them an estimate, he wasn't able to understand the directions to actually get to the house. So I would listen in on another phone and write down the directions, and then I would go in the car with him and we would actually drive to the residence together, and then I would get out and I would basically be the translator for him. So that was my childhood, pretty unconventional.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Very unconventional. How did you assume this role? Were there specific deliberate conversations, or did it just evolve organically as you grew up in the household?
Fran Hauser:
It really evolved organically, because I was the oldest. Really, these things just fell on me. It made sense, if something was broken, even in the house, and needed to be repaired, I would be the one to call the plumber or the contractor, and at the time it felt really hard. It was frustrating, for sure, at times because I just felt so different from all of my "American" friends, who were doing sleepovers and play dates, and I had so much more responsibility. Obviously, looking back, it was actually such an incredible experience, because I learned so much, not just about business but also about risk taking. Watching my parents, who had so much going against them, they were at such a disadvantage, but they were still able to take these risks. Whether it was building these businesses, or investing in real estate, and if you look at my career, I've taken many risks in my career. I've reinvented myself several times. I left Coca-Cola and the late nineties to go to an early stage internet company, Movie Phone. Or five years ago, I left a really comfortable job at Time Inc. to move into startup investing.
Fran Hauser:
So I haven't been afraid to take risks, and I think a lot of that comes from seeing how disadvantaged my parents were, and feeling like if they could take risks, I should be able to.
Bobbi Rebell:
I wanted to ask you, so you mentioned, and I was going to bring this up, that you now are a startup investor. How did this background in business and understanding risks, and understanding strategy and marketing, and even just the basic economics of business, how does that inform your approach as an investor now?
Fran Hauser:
So I think in a lot of ways. For starters, when I'm evaluating the entrepreneurs I'm looking at them and I'm saying, "Do they have the capacity to take risks? Will they jump in with both feet?" And I'm also looking at what kind of mindset do they have? Are they optimistic? I always felt like my parents approached every single venture with such optimism, and with an abundance mindset, and treating people kindly and with respect. So those are things that I really look for in an entrepreneur, and then the other side of it is the brass tactics operational side, which is I feel like I'm really good at looking at financials and understanding what the risks are, really getting nitpicky when it comes to the assumptions that are being used. So I feel like I can look at a PnL pretty quickly, and projected cashflows, and all that good stuff, and I'm just co comfortable. I'm so comfortable with numbers, and I'm so comfortable with looking at forecasts and really trying to make sense of it, and also understanding is there a there there?
Fran Hauser:
The other part too, I would say, is just understanding markets, understanding consumers. I think that also comes from just having spent so much time with my parents clients. So it's impacted me as an investor in so many different ways.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson then, for our listeners from this, that they can apply to their businesses, and to some degree, to their lives?
Fran Hauser:
I would say the lesson is to not be afraid to take risks, and when you do so, really approach it with a mindset of abundance and optimism, and don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to go all in and to jump in with both feet, and then also the last thing I would say, which really ties back to the book, is to treat people with kindness and respect, because I think you look at my parents who barely spoke a word of english, and they were still able to communicate through a lot of nonverbal cues, and a lot of that had to do with being charming, and being kind, and that will take you far.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because the book is really all about being nice, but in a strategic and smart way.
Fran Hauser:
Yes, being nice in a way where you're not a pushover, and you're not veering into people pleasing territory. It's really about how you can be both nice and strong. Those two things are not mutually exclusive, and that you bring both of those into virtually any situation at work.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your everyday money tip, because one thing that I love about this is it's very specific, and tangible, and something we can all do pretty much right away.
Fran Hauser:
Yeah, I love this. So what we do in my house is, instead of a normal piggy bank, we collect coins in a five gallon water jug. The kids love it because it's so much bigger than a piggy bank, and it's clear, so you can see the progress. The last time we cashed it in the coins were worth $4000, and it took us several years to fill it up, but it's just a really fun way to teach your kids about saving and about goals.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you cash it in, what's that experience like? Is it one of the machines, or do you bring it to a bank?
Fran Hauser:
It's actually hysterical because it's so heavy, so what you have to do is we put duct tape over the top of it to close it, and then we literally roll it-
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my God.
Fran Hauser:
We have to roll it down the-
Bobbi Rebell:
You could get a smaller container, Fran, you know that?
Fran Hauser:
I know, but it's part of the experience, I guess. So much fun, and then we literally bring it into the bank. The teller always has so much fun with it, because it's not something that they usually see.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you do with the $4000 then?
Fran Hauser:
The first time we did it my husband and I, it was actually pre-kids, so we ended up spending it on a really great spa vacation, which was great. Just the two of us.
Bobbi Rebell:
That works.
Fran Hauser:
That works, right? And now with the kids we're just starting to talk to them about, "Okay, what do we want to spend it on?" And that's also really fun, because it allows you to bat around ideas and then have something that you're really excited about, you have something to look forward to.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. We'll have to get an update and put it in the show notes as to where the money goes. I want to spend just a couple of minutes talking about your book, because it's had so much impact.
Fran Hauser:
Yes. The book is really my response to a question that I get asked all the time, which is, "How can you be so nice, and still be successful?" It's just a topic that I've found myself talking about quite a bit, and it's something that I really believe. Being nice, and being empathetic, and collaborative, and having an abundance mindset. All of those things have really served me well in my career. If I think about some of the bigger promotions that I received, or if I was asked to work on a really high profile project, a lot of that came back to my ability to build relationships and earn trust, and a lot of that goes back to being nice.
Fran Hauser:
So the book is really actual, I mean it's inspiring, but I think what makes it special is I am such an operator at heart that I really wanted to make sure that we filled it with tips, and techniques, and scripts. There are so many scripts for navigating sticky situations.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, there are very specific things, because people think, "Well, this happens to me, what do I ..." they literally don't have the words. Like when someone takes credit for an idea that you had, you go into exactly what to do, which is important.
Fran Hauser:
Yes, and I have to tell you one really cool thing, just over the past week I've had three different women tell me that they all got really big raises using my advice in the book.
Bobbi Rebell:
Fantastic. And now, you're now working on this Nice Girl Army, right? That's your saying on social media, and you bring together all these different stories that relate to that.
Fran Hauser:
Yes. My Nice Girl Army is actually a group of ambassadors that I put together, probably about six to nine months ago. A lot of them are former mentees, or current mentees, they really love the message in the book, and they've really gotten behind the book. It's basically a Google group I've created where we all communicate with one another, and they've all been so helpful in promoting the book, and I think from a hashtag perspective, it's taken on this bigger movement feel to it. It's just been really fun to see women who I don't know reading the book and using that hashtag, and saying how much they love the book, and how much it's helped them.
Fran Hauser:
So I think in terms of what I'm thinking about next, it's really how do I take all of this great content that's in the book, and what else can I do with that content? So I'm just starting to think about some product extensions from the book, which is really exciting, and then still doing my day job, which is investing and advising, which is something that I've put on pause a little bit over the last few months as I've been working on the book tour. So I'm really excited to get back into that as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Well, I want to make sure everyone can, first of all get the book if they haven't gotten it yet, but more importantly, also know where to find you and follow to get updates on all of these different projects.
Fran Hauser:
Yes, definitely. So my website is FranHauser, H-A-U-S-E-R, .com, and you can get all the information about the book and where to buy the book there. My Instagram and Twitter handle is the same, it's Fran_Hauser, and of course you can always connect with me on Linkedin as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Fran. I love the book, and if there's anyone out there who hasn't read it yet, please pick it up, it's wonderful, well worth investing the time. Thank you Fran.
Fran Hauser:
Thank you Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, so Fran and I really just scratched the surface in that interview, here's a little bit more wisdom from her book. Financial Grownup tip number one; one thing that Fran talks about in The Myth of the Nice Girl is the importance of how things are presented, the tone that you use in your voice. So you can be firm, and not be a pushover, and still be nice. Think about the way that you say things.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two; don't say sorry so much. Try replacing it with "Thank you." Fran points out that many women apologize of things that not only were not their fault, but also they aren't really sorry about. For example, not being able to attend an event. She would often apologize for declining an invitation, instead, she advises to simply say, "Thank you for the invitation." And say that you will not be able to attend.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you have not already, please hit that subscribe button and be in touch on Twitter, @BobbiRebell, on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook I am @BobbiRebell. And learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. And thank you to the wonderful Fran Hauser for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
When entrepreneurs Daniel Levine and Steven Pulver started their Fireside Conference in Canada 4 years ago, their ambition was so hot it burned through their budget, putting the conference in the red.
In Dan and Steve’s money story you will learn:
-The backstory of their first Fireside Conference
-The key thing that they did not factor into their budget
-How they select who attends the Fireside conference, and how they believe that curation ties into their success
-The missing thing in the conference marketplace that they identified, and inspired them to create their own conference
-The personal connection they have to the location of the conference
-Where their funding came from at the start of the venture
-Why they were $30,000 in debt when the first conference ended
In Dan and Steve’s money lesson you will learn:
-Why they decided to stay on their original trajectory even though the conference lost money in year one.
-What the data from the first conference showed them and how they leveraged the data for the future
-The role that social media played in their success, even though there was no cell phone reception (or use) at the conference
-How they monetized a very small audience by focusing on community curation
In Dan and Steve’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-Why they allocated a significant budget to in-person events to connect with their community
-The quick realization that they could have more impact on a lower budget by changing one key thing.
-How you can apply that to your networking and marketing, or even just your friendships and personal relationships
-Why spending more money to impress people is often not effective and can sometimes dilute the potential impact
In My Take you will learn:
-How the new hit show Succession illustrated the same point as the Fireside guys- wealthy people are not impressed by expensive stuff. Just be real with them.
-How I implement the same strategy, hosting friends and colleagues in my home, rather than taking them out for fancy impersonal dinners
-The significance of pro-actively choosing how you fund a startup
-How self-funding allows for a less painful failure, because while you lose your money, you maintain control and avoid pressure to cut losses from outside investors
Dan, Steven and Bobbi also talk about
-Dan and Steve’s entrepreneurial venture MinuteBox.com
-The next Fireside conference in September
-The speakers at the next conference will include Jordan Harbinger and Jason Calcanis
-How to get preferential consideration for the conference
Episode Links
Learn more about the Fireside Conference!
Follow them on social media!
-twitter @firesideconf, @daniellevine
-instagram @fireside_conf
Learn about their 2018 speakers:
Jordan Harbinger
Jason Calcanis
Learn more about the show I mentioned- HBO's Succession!
Transcription
Daniel Levine:
We didn't have a sense of when we told people that it was going to be all you can drink, what that meant on the bottom line, and we didn't really have a sense of when you do a conference in the middle of nowhere three and half hours from the closest big city, what that means when you have to start helping to arrange transportation for people.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money but it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes my friends, the bar tab can get pretty expensive, especially when you offer it unlimited all weekend long, and that was just the beginning for entrepreneurs, Steven Pulver and Daniel Levine when they started the Fire Side Conference in Canada four years ago. The team wanted everything to be perfect for their first experience, but perfect does not come cheap. Lots of lessons and take aways here are Steven Pulver and Daniel Levine.
Bobbi Rebell:
Daniel Levine and Steven Pulver, you're financial grown ups, welcome to the podcast.
Steven Pulver:
Thanks so much for having us.
Daniel Levine:
Pleasure to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
You guys hold the honor of being the first team that I've had on. So this is going to be cool. We'll see how it goes.
Daniel Levine:
Thank you. We're looking forward to it.
Steven Pulver:
Hopefully no screw ups but we're looking forward to it.
Bobbi Rebell:
You guys are going to be great. Alright you are Canadian entrepreneurs and you are the brains behind a conference that I was very impressed by when I started learning about it, The Fireside Conference. It's happening for the fourth year in September, up in Canada. You're also entrepreneurs yourselves. This is a conference for entrepreneurs, you are entrepreneurs. Your company is MinuteBox, which is cloud based, software basically for law firms to help them be compliant with the various regulations in Canada but the conference is really the focus that I want to talk about here because your money story is about.
Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us what happened, this is year four. I want to hear what happened in the first year, because I think it's some that a lot of entrepreneurs and just people that have ideas about starting businesses or just managing their own finances will relate to and hopefully learn from
Steven Pulver:
For sure. It starts in 2014 when Fireside itself was born and just for your listeners to take just a 30 second overview of what Fireside is, and how it differs from a traditional conference. So Fireside at its core is an invite only retreat for entrepreneurs, founders, investors, influencers from all over the world that we invite up to a summer camp every September.
Steven Pulver:
We started our first official year in 2015. Daniel and I were looking around our community and saying there's a lot of great networking events, there's a lot of great events and things to bring the community together, but the biggest failure they all had was the inability to really bring people together on a way deeper level than just meeting in a conference hall.
Steven Pulver:
So we kind of said there's got to be a better venue that we can do a conference or an event at and we landed on this amazing summer camp where children are there all summer as a sleepover camp outside Bancroft, Ontario, Canada.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you have a personal connection, right? You have a personal connection to the camp.
Steven Pulver:
Yeah so I spent 24 years there both as a camper and staff and worked my way all the way up from counselor to head staff and eventually leadership team and helped a run a lot of the programming. So I was obviously incredibly biased. Daniel actually had attended camp Alden as well as a staff. So when we were looking at venues we were obviously both biased in knowing this was an amazing place to do this at.
Steven Pulver:
We had no video of photos of Fireside itself. When we were trying to market and spend money on ads and things like that, we literally had no real starting point. So because of that everything we were doing, we were fresh into. So we were throwing a lot of stuff at the wall, as we continue to do today, to see what would stick.
Bobbi Rebell:
Had you done any market research or anything? What was your background that made you qualified to do this?
Steven Pulver:
I think we would be completely foolish to say now that we had any form of subject matter expertise in running events, other than wanting to do something amazing.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where was you funding coming from, did you have budget, how did this come together from a financial perspective?
Daniel Levine:
So in our first year, from a financial perspective, it really came together very loosely and in an unstructured way, and hopefully not to ruin the story, but that's how we found ourselves about $30,000 in debt at the end of it. We looked at pricing and we weren't looking at pricing as a factor or breakeven. We weren't looking at it as a function necessarily of our cost. We really went into this with an, "if you build it they will come" attitude and really not having pedigrees in the areas of conferences or event management. We didn't have a sense of when we told people that it was going to be all you can drink, what that really meant on the bottom line, and we didn't really have a sense of when you do a conference in the middle of nowhere three and a half hours from the closest big city, what that means when you have start helping to arrange transportation for people.
Daniel Levine:
So it really was both a combination of not having a budget, but also really just, as you put it, not having any qualifications for doing something like this that had us at the end of a really magical two and half days turn to each other and realize that we really were not in a good financial position.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you spend? Give me some of the numbers, what did you spend on the conference and where, and was your revenue that you did have?
Steven Pulver:
Back then, I should say, our only revenue source was tickets. So our tickets were, Dan what was it, $300 to $500 range?
Daniel Levine:
Yeah.
Steven Pulver:
Let's say give or take $350 to $400 on average, in terms of ticket price. That was really our main source of revenue. We had a little bit of sponsorship at the time, but when we're talking about money coming in the door, we're really looking in the $20,000 to $30,000 range or just pure revenue. Now, there's a lot of costs involved, so of course things are completely dependent on the number of people that we have enter the gates of camp. So back then we were about 75 people, now we're around 400, so obviously that has changed quite a bit, but back then, alcohol was a huge cost.
Steven Pulver:
Swag, wanting to give people, for instance, under that swag category I would put whether they'd be water bottles, or [inaudible 00:06:28], or pieces like that. Food, obviously, is a huge piece. Those were the big, big, big costs, and when Dan and I looked at this and we said, "We want to create an amazing event," we didn't have budget in mind. That certainly doesn't mean we had an unlimited budget, but we were never going to sacrifice the quality of, say, the food, or the amount of food, or the amount of alcohol, or the amount of drinks, or whatever it might be, on account of our budget in that first year.
Steven Pulver:
We didn't really know where we were going with it, but kind of both said, "We're in, or we're not." And once we made that decision to go ahead, the budget, unfortunately looking back, it was really nonexistent.
Bobbi Rebell:
So where did you get the money from, the negative $30,000? Was it borrowed, were you putting it on credit cards?
Daniel Levine:
Yeah, so that was coming from our personal capital. Steven and I, we certainly didn't have $30,000 to blow away, but we were fortunate to have some savings, and we're very thankful for the support of our significant others, who saw that big bill come in at the end of the day and say that they had faith in us to really build something fantastic. And the only reason that we were able to swallow such a hit in our first year, was that we had a long term view. There's at least one component of that long term view, if not two, that were important to informing our decisions.
Daniel Levine:
One was, we knew we wanted to go larger than 60 or 75 people, we always thought that we'd be in the 300 to 400 person range. Knowing that, we also knew that our fixed costs were high, and our variable costs were quite low. So that actually was a huge point of leverage for us to look towards in future years, knowing that if we were able to focus on growing our membership and attendee base, that would end up covering our fixed costs, and since our variable costs are quite low, it wouldn't be linear and proportional, such that a 60 person conference would see us lose a similar amount of money as we would see in a 400 person conference. We always knew that if we grew enough, in future years we would be able to cover that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So what did you do then in year two, and what is the lesson for our listeners?
Daniel Levine:
Yeah, so two key things. One was, stay on the trajectory that we were on with our original vision. So we had to have faith in the fact, and quite honestly we could look to the spreadsheets to prove it, but we had faith in the fact that if we grew from 60 or 70 to 285, which is what we were in our second year, we would exceed those fixed costs-
Bobbi Rebell:
Which is phenomenal growth, by the way, that's amazing.
Daniel Levine:
It was. And that was something that we really didn't expect, but because we made that huge investment in the first year and put on a fantastic program, what happened on the Sunday when we came back into the city and got cell phone reception again, is our emails were filled, not just with responses from attendees, but from friends and friends of attendees who saw them tweeting and Instagraming about it, and saying, "How do I get an invite? How do I get involved?" So we were able to leverage a really amazing product into a very big growth year into our second year. So that was a very large component of being able to recoup things in our second year. But the other big factor was, we need more revenue streams. Because we knew we were going to grow, we knew we could also go after revenue streams at 285 that we couldn't go after at 60 or 70 people.
Daniel Levine:
So, for example, sponsorship, that was a brand new door that opened for us, and even though 285 is, let's say relatively small in the conference business, where you might have conferences with 10,000 or 20,000 people, we could now go to major brands and major companies and say, "We have 285 highly curated people that are industry leaders, top entrepreneurs, top individuals, we are going to give you an opportunity to do very deep and impactful experiential marketing activations with them, and as a result, these brands saw a lot of value and in turn sponsorship dollars started coming in, which supplemented the revenue that we were receiving through ticket sales.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I think that's an important lesson for our listeners, that you weren't just taking a check from anyone. Once you were in year two you were able to have that history of the content that people wanted, and the experience that people wanted, and you could select and curate, as you say, the 285 people. So it wasn't just any 285 people, it was people that really had value to the potential sponsors.
Daniel Levine:
Precisely, and that's magnetized quite a bit over the years, and we've really seen an exponential growth in the inbound requests to join us. Whereas in our first year, we were going out and selecting, each of us, 30 or so people from our networks to really beg to come up and experience this with us. We're now going to receive over 4000 applications from people all over the world to be one of 400 people to come and join us this September.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well that's amazing, congratulations. I want to move from there to our everyday money tip, because that also has to do with something that you do that other people can emulate, that was at first a misstep, and then you found the right way to do it and it's working for you.
Steven Pulver:
At the start of this new year, 2018, we said we would start doing dinners. So we basically hand selected both current attendees, who are attending for the first time this September in 2018, alumni, other people in the community that we wanted to join us, and we'd have dinners, and we would invite people to nice restaurants, certainly not over the top fancy restaurants, but nice restaurants here in Toronto, and we did a few in Boston, and Chicago, and other places. And we would basically bring people together for a night of eating and drinking, and just a good time connecting people.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's expensive though.
Steven Pulver:
Yeah. So we found out very quickly that that's very expensive, and that was built into our budget. We knew from the beginning we'd spend maybe $2000 at dinner, and we had built that in that we were going to do a few of these. So we'd earmarked that and we knew we were going to do it, but after a few dinners we realized that this was getting expensive, despite us being ready for that expense, but it wasn't really us. We loved the fact that we were connecting with people and having great meals and great conversation, but at one point Daniel actually turned to me and said, "Why don't we just do a few barbecues? Do you think maybe we could do it at your house?" And I said, "Absolutely we can so that."
Steven Pulver:
Next thing you know we got the barbecue all ready and went to our favorite butcher shop and got burgers, and basically created a barbecue that I'm actually staring at in my living room right now, we're about to host a barbecue in a hour or so from now, and we said, "We can do barbecues. We can so five or six of these a month, at a cost of maybe $200 a barbecue, max, and bring amazing people together and have the flexibility to not spend a lot of money, but actually get way more bang for our buck."
Bobbi Rebell:
And that's something a lot of people should take to heart, because we sometimes get so busy trying to impress other people, and in fact it's often more impressive to bring someone to your home. Certainly it creates a different kind of bond, a more special and more personal bond, and it is more budget friendly.
Steven Pulver:
Right, and I think it really does go to our core too, right? As both individuals and as a business where we want to connect with people in this kind of way, as opposed to some hoity-toity kind of restaurant that is just fundamental not us.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So it is on brand, as they say, and speaking of that, you've got conference number four this September.
Daniel Levine:
Yeah, we now have a hard cap at 400 attendees, particularly because for us community and authentic relationship is super important to us. We're going to have incredible folks like Jordan Harbinger, from The Jordan Harbinger Show, and Jason Calicanis, who is one of the most world renowned Angel investors, coming and joining us for the weekend. Disconnecting from technology up at summer camp, sitting around the fire pit, sharing stories about business and growth and leadership, and going water skiing and rock climbing while we're at it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Sounds amazing. Alright, where can people find out more, if you even have any spots, or get on the wait list for next year?
Steven Pulver:
So, we have just opened up our final 50 application spots, those are now officially open for application, so there is still room available to apply, and I would encourage any of your amazing listeners to visit firesideconf, C-O-N-F, .com, as in conference. We are always there as well, you'll see a little chat bubble, you can say hi to us and ask us any questions, or you can feel free to apply and just let us know that you're coming from this podcast and you'll immediately jump to the top of the line.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you both.
Daniel Levine:
Our pleasure, thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so many lessons here. Financial grownup tip number one; let's start with the guys everyday money tip, because that hits close to home. Don't assume you have to spend a ton of money to impress wealthy and successful people. The thing is, fancy people aren't impressed with fancy. There's a scene in a new show called Succession that I've been watching, where a character is trying to impress his future father-in-law, who is very wealthy. So he spends a crazy amount of money on a watch, but when he gives it to the man as a gift, he's trying to impress him remember, the fact is he is barely acknowledged, and in fact, the very wealthy future father-in-law later gives it away without much of a thought. Watching it was pretty sad, unfortunately there is some reality to that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Rich people don't need another fancy meal. Once Steven and Daniel realized this and started hosting barbecues at their own homes, they had a much better time connecting with the people that they wanted to impress. I mean, the conference is at a camp, that's who they are. They're real, they're down to earth, and they want to connect to their people in that way. It's refreshing. Not everything has to be in a five star hotel or restaurant.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Well, the fireside conference lost about £30,000 the first year because it was self-financed. The founders remained in control and did not face pressure from outside investors. Early stage businesses that can avoid taking outside investors retain control, something Daniel and Steven seems very happy about.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you enjoyed the show, tell a friend, or share on social media. On Twitter, I am @BobbiRebell, on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook @BobbiRebell, and please subscribe if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes. Thank you to Steven and Daniel for your candor and openness about the challenges and rewards of starting such an ambitious conference. I'm looking forward to watching The Fireside Conference continue to grow. So thank you gentlemen for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
Perez Hilton pioneered blogging as a profession, starting with his first $5 payday from Google Adsense. The once-bankrupt Hilton has built a multi-media business on that foundation, moving into YouTube, television and his latest venture, a guest stint at Chippendales in Vegas.
In Perez’ money story you will learn:
-How Perez first earned money as a blogger, and the size of his first payment
-How he promoted his wesite perezhilton.com when it first started, well before social media existed
-How he realized he could make money blogging
-The big life failure that happened that led to his ability to focus on and monetize his blog
-The turning point in his career as a blogger when he was able to help his family
-What Perez tells his kids about his job
-Perez’s daily schedule and how he maintains productivity
-Why Perez wakes up at 5:51 every morning
-What was Perez’s biggest payday, and how much he has made in one day
-Why he is so excited talking about Lady Gaga!!
In Perez’s money lesson you will learn:
-The big warning he has to new business owners about the pace of growth
-Why he warns startup founders not to invest all their own money in their business when they can get investors
In Perez’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-How to negotiate better rates with the people that you have been doing business with for years
-How much you can reasonably expect them to discount services
-How to leverage your social media following to get discounts on products
In my take you will learn:
-Why it is important to note that Perez Hilton wakes up everyday at 5:51 am
-The significance of his regular, reliable schedule, especially as an entrepreneur and a parent
-How he is putting time management Laura Vanderkam’s strategies to work.
-The importance of building out a brand in an intentional and focused way
-How Perez is integrating new platforms to expand his audience from his core platform
-The video on Perez’s personal youtube channel that I am personally completely fascinated by and why.
Perez and Bobbi also talk about:
-How he has had to re-think his finances since having three kids
-Why Perez believes in diversifying financial assets, but also focuses on real estate
-The kinds of real estate Perez believes will be the best investments and why
-Where Perez is invested right now
Episode Links:
Check out Perez’s block perezhilton.com
Subscribe to Perez’ youtube channels
His personal channel The Perez Hilton
His regular content channel Perez Hilton
Here is more info about Perez’s Chippendales show in Las Vegas!
You may also be interested in Time Management expert Laura Vanderkam’s interview. You can listen to it at bobbirebell.com/podcast/lauravanderkam
Follow Perez!
On Twitter: https://twitter.com/PerezHilton
On Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/perezhilton
On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ThePerezHilton/
Listen to Perez’s podcast with Chris Booker: http://perezhiltonpodcast.com/
Want to learn more about Perez? Check out his interview with Michael Dinich
Transcription
Perez Hilton:
I'll get anywhere from $25,000 - $50,000 a night for two hours just to show up and promote the club. And I remember one event it was 4th of July, I was the headliner. I decided, you know what I want to have a special guest, so my special guest was Lady Gaga billed underneath me.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what, being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. That was gossip blogging pioneer Perez Hilton dishing on some of his own finances and getting very candid about how much and how little other headliners really make. Perez has talked in public pretty candidly about some of his financial let's say adventures, including declaring bankruptcy and spending several hundred thousand dollars on surrogacy for his three kids. Go to his YouTube channel The Perez Hilton to hear more about that. His gossip YouTube channel is Perez Hilton, but I wanted to know more. After all, love him or hate him the guy started making money from blogging before it was a thing. And if you look at some of the ways we use social media now, like even the doodling people do on pictures and all that stuff he was doing it way ahead of us. He's made mistakes, which we talk about, but now that he's gotten older and wiser with three kids and a team that works with him, which includes by the way his mom, and his sister Perez Hilton is all about being a financial grownup. Here is Perez Hilton.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Perez Hilton you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Perez Hilton:
Hello, I try to be. Actually I don't even try, I am. It takes work.
Bobbi Rebell:
You very much are. Oh, come on. Yeah anyone who watches you have two YouTube channels, you have your fun gossipy one and then you have your also fun personal one. And people that watch that they know you talk about your bankruptcy, you talk about spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on surrogacy and the financial implications of that. So you are definitely, you're a grownup Perez.
Perez Hilton:
Well not even that, you know last year at the beginning of 2017 when I knew I was having a third child and that was coming it was a huge push for me to completely re haul my financial life. Meaning, overtly looking at every possible way to spend less and make more. And shorter term goals are definitely to diversify, it's a key word especially given how everything changes so quickly in entertainment, and just the world. For me though, and I may have still been at this before but I'm still trying to make it happen. And I wish I would have heard this before, I wish I would have made it a priority younger, I really want to get into real estate. Like some people want to play the stock market, some people want to invest in startups, some people want to start new businesses, some people want to let their money sit in a savings account, I want to go old school and own land. Own property. Not commercial property, I specifically want to own like a duplex or a triplex or four plex because I think that, that will only go up and it will only win.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you keep your assets now? Do you own your home? Do you have some stocks? Are you diversified? Because if you do everything in real estate you're not diversified and we just heard you want to be diversified.
Perez Hilton:
Yeah, no I mean I have a retirement account and I have different thing for my kid's college. I'm making all of the smart moves but instead of going heavier in the stock market, which I was advised to ... I did not listen to that advice and I'm going to go more into real estate. If I keep most of my money in real estate I don't care. I don't mind.
Bobbi Rebell:
We talked before we started taping about the first time you were able to actually monetize blogging, because you were basically the first. You were blogging before there was social media. You were blogging you were just trying to promote it on something called Friendster, which most of my listeners probably never even heard of. When did you realize you could monetize this and what was the first memory you have of receiving money for blogging?
Perez Hilton:
Well I didn't make any money for the first year plus. It was really just a hobby. Thankfully I ended up getting fired from a job that I had during that first year of blogging, which I credit to my website becoming successful. Because as a result of getting fired during that first year I was able to collect unemployment. So I didn't have to worry about feeding myself and having enough to pay rent. Thank God that happened. Sometimes a negative really is a positive. So, when I finally started making money to pay rent ...
Bobbi Rebell:
So a lot of bloggers today they make money from ads, from affiliate links, things like that. How was the first way that you made money?
Perez Hilton:
The first way that I made money, of course Google Ad Sense, was probably less than $5 but I was like, "Wow this is something exciting."
Bobbi Rebell:
$5 for something you were doing as just a fun little side thing is money, right?
Perez Hilton:
Absolutely.
Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a pivotal moment where you realized, "This is actually my ..." It's not your whole career because you do a lot more, you first of all you went to NYU, you studied acting you did a lot and you do a lot. This doesn't just come from nowhere, and I think you make it look easy but it's not as easy as you make it look. But when did you realize that this in terms of your general identity was going to be it and that there was a way to monetize this? I mean reports are you've made many millions.
Perez Hilton:
I would say that by 2007 things got to a point where I was able to and I needed to get help. And I was able to help my family by doing so. I hired my mom and my sister with me and really made it a family operation. So, I moved them from Miami to Los Angeles and they still work with me today.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And how do you think you'll explain to your kids how you earn a living? Or will it just be kind of organic as they grow up?
Perez Hilton:
Well they already understand who Perez Hilton is. They've seen me on TV many times, the many different things I've done. They've been on TV with me. Last year I did a show for the Food Network called Worst Cooks in America Celebrity Edition, which I ended up winning by the way. I was the best of the worst. They got to be part of the show and they watched it every week with me. I do a lot of talking head commentary whenever I'm on like The Talk, or The Real, or local news here in LA. My mom will always record it and make sure my kids see it. Plus I make all my YouTube videos, they're in the background hearing daddy work and seeing me work as well on my laptop on my website. So they definitely have an understanding. They know I work so hard.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well tell me about that. Do you have a schedule or do you just keep going until it gets done? How does it work?
Perez Hilton:
I just keep going until it gets done, but I wake up at 5:51 every morning. I literally start working before I even get out of bed, before I even pickup my laptop I'm able to get some work done on my phone on Instagram. It's like you have to be doing everything everywhere. And I'll work, work, work. Then I'll take my kids to school, then I'll go to gym. Then I'll come back, catch up on work, do more work. Then I'll usually have a meeting or a filming or something in the afternoon. Come back home, catch up on work, spend early evening in dad mode. Put my kids to bed after getting them their shower and all that jazz, read their nightly book. And then get more work done, catch up on emails, and then usually get to bed like 11:30 maybe. I still love what I do, 14 years later. And I'm filled with so much gratitude that I am continuing to have fun and entertain people, and get new followers through different ways. Yeah, like even in a couple of days I'm heading to Las Vegas. I'm going to be doing the Chip 'n Dale show there.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's so wild.
Perez Hilton:
That's so exciting. I'm going to be the special celebrity host of Chip 'n Dales.
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you remember your biggest payday? What can you tell us about it and most of all how it made you feel?
Perez Hilton:
I remember like 2006 - 2012 before the rise of the DJ, which is where Vegas is now. It's all about the big name DJ's. You used to have a ton of celebrities hosting club nights in Vegas. And they would just throw ridiculous amounts of money my way and everybody's way. Now you'll have celebrities host Vegas, but because I know the market so well now, and I have so many friends that work in nightlife they're paying for the Vanderpump Rule for a housewife or whomever, five maybe $10,000. If you're a celebrity like Drake or somebody of that stature they'll make tons of money, but TV personalities five to $10,000.
Bobbi Rebell:
So let me ask you, how much would you make in those days in Vegas? And what was it like?
Perez Hilton:
Yeah. Well it depends on the venue, and the time of year, and a whole bunch of variables but I would say I would get anywhere from $25,000 - $50,000 a night for two hours just to show up and promote the club. And I remember one event I had back in 2008 it was 4th of July weekend, and I was the headliner. I decided, you know what I want to have a special guest. So my special guest was Lady Gaga billed underneath me.
Bobbi Rebell:
What are the lessons, the business lessons that you've learned from going from making $5 from Google Ad Sense, to Vegas at $50,000 doing DJ stuff, to now where you've got this multi-media empire that you are growing and building to invest in real estate as we know it for your kids?
Perez Hilton:
One advice I would give somebody is don't grow too much too quickly, which is a big mistake that many companies make. I would also say ... and a lot of this is just my experience, my advice, it probably maybe goes against what traditional business people might say. I would also say if you start making a lot of money on your business do not invest it back into your business or invest some but not a lot. Ideally to grow you can grow with other people's money. That's the goal.
Bobbi Rebell:
No, that's something a lot of people do. They leverage other people's money. Maybe put some of your own skin in the game, but it's also important to have some money set aside personally for you.
Perez Hilton:
Absofreakinglutely. Yep.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. All right Perez, I don't want to keep you too long. Give me an everyday money tip.
Perez Hilton:
One simple thing people that you do business with regularly, maybe your pool cleaner, or trainer at the gym, or for me I get my meals delivered from this one company. So I reached out to a lot of these people I've been very loyal to for a long time and I'm like, "Can we work anything out? Can you charge me less if I promote more?" Even if you don't have a large social media following, if you've been loyal to a company for a long time and been paying them they'll probably say, "Sure we can give you five percent off, 10% off." Any savings anywhere is good.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. All right, where can we support you? You're heading to Vegas, I just watched your video today, you're packing everyone up. Tell us about that and everything else that you want us to be paying attention to.
Perez Hilton:
Well I am a busy dude, yeah I'm going to Vegas. I'll be staring in the Chip 'n Dales show at the Rio from July 26th through Labor Day Sunday. I've got two YouTube channels, The Perez Hilton for everything family and then Perez Hilton for everything pop culture. Of course my website. And then I've got a podcast, The Perez Hilton podcast with Chris Booker where we talk everything pop culture.
Bobbi Rebell:
It is an empire. Congratulations on it all. Thank you for doing this.
Perez Hilton:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
So Perez is a lot of fun my friends, and he kind of makes it look easy if you watch his content. But let's look at what is really going on with this business, and it is business.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one, note that Perez casually mentions that he always wakes up at 5:51 in the morning, and that he does work before his kids get up. Getting up early is a common thread of successful self starter entrepreneur, in fact according to time management expert Laura Vanderkam who was a recent guest on this podcast the vast majority of successful executives wake up before 6:00 am on weekdays. So, go set your alarm clock and try it out.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, I love that Perez is always trying new things, but at the same time they are things that make sense with the brand that he has created. Perez still has his blog for sure and has expanded to different vertices, but he also knows that YouTube is very important to his audience as well. And so, he is growing there. One channel that extends his traditional gossip content, but he also now wants his audience to know him as a person. And he does very candid personal videos including a strangely amazing video by the way of how he brushes his teeth and keeps them so white. Watch it, you'll find yourself watching till the end, it's mesmerizing. Silly but mesmerizing. And now he's starting the Chip 'n Dales thing in Las Vegas, so this man is fearless but it is all on brand and all designed to appeal to his audience. Perez is consistent with his content and keeps his audience engaged.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you enjoyed this show please tell a friend. The best way for us to grow and keep bringing you these great stories is by sharing. You are busy but if you have time please leave a review and hit subscribe, and keep in touch on social media. We love it when you DM us on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and on Facebook at Bobbi Rebell. And a big thanks to Perez Hilton who's having a great time in his very grownup life, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK Media Production.
Jane King caved in to pressure to buy an apartment with her first son on the way, but soon realized going against her gut created a lot of financial indigestion. Plus tips on how to make sure you get your bills paid on time.
In Jane’s money story you will learn:
-Why Jane decided to buy real estate, against her gut instinct, right when her son was born
-The key consideration that Jane and her husband overlooked when buying property in that location
-The indication in the economic news stories she was reporting that was a red flag to Jane that they were headed for real estate disasters
-How falling interest rates actually created a challenge for Jane and her family
-Why Jane had to move out of the first property
In Jane’s money lesson you will learn:
-How not trusting your gut can cost you a lot of money
-How to apply that theory not just to real estate but also to buying a stock any decision
-Our instincts are often stronger than we think
In Jane’s every day money tip you will learn:
-Why Jane does all of her bill paying on Saturday
-How that creates a checks and balances system for her
-How we can apply this kind of system to our own lives
In My Take you will learn
-The importance of getting out of big mistakes before they become even worse, even if it is expensive
-How Jane leveraged a layoff into a successful business venture
We also talk about:
-How Jane took a business that was folding at her employer, and created her own entrepreneurial venture, LilaMax media.
-Jane’s podcast about kids and money “KaChing with Jane King”
-About my side-hustle filling in for Jane doing local news updates live from the Nasdaq MarketSite that are seen all over the United States
Episode Links
Learn more about Jane King and LilaMax media at lilamaxmedia.com
Learn more about Jane’s podcast KaChing with Jane King at https://kachingpodcast.com/
Follow Jane!
Twitter https://twitter.com/MarketJane
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/marketjane/
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/jane.king.560
Transcription
Jane King:
I wish I would have just trust my instinct at the time because I feel like I knew, gut, what was going on with the housing market. I don't think I understood just how deep the problems were.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be A Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this!
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone! Today's episode features a friend I've known for more than a decade and learned a lot from and I know that you will as well. Jane King is a familiar face to so many of you because she's been anchoring local news business updates for years. First, on CNN, then on Bloomberg, and now with her entrepreneurial venture, LilaMax Media. Named after her two kids, Lila and Max.
Bobbi Rebell:
Even though her official money story has to do with a real estate flop, pay close attention to the extra story she casually slips in about launching her content syndication company, LilaMax. Previously referred to, which continues to grow at a time when so many bigger content companies are struggling. She makes it seems like no big deal, but I was there, and this Mompreneur is holing her own against some heavy competition. Here is Jane King.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jane King! You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Jane King:
Great to be here, Bobbi, and I really loved hearing your podcast over the weekend. It's great advice out there.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, thank you, and I love your podcast, “KaChing With Jane King” and all of your entrepreneurial ventures. Tell us a little bit about that.
Jane King:
Well, right now I run a company called LilaMax Media. I'll just give you a little history of how this came to be. So, I worked for CNN. I worked for Bloomberg and then the division that I worked for at Bloomberg, in 2013, they decided to shut that down at the end of the year. So, they gave us about a six weeks notice and another guy on my time and I decided just to take it on. We started this company LilaMax Media.
Jane King:
We do broadcast of the NASDAQ Monday through Friday for local TV stations around the country and try to keep up everybody on this very interesting business news atmosphere that we have lately. Oh, my goodness!
Bobbi Rebell:
And, many of my listeners, I'm sure see you on their local morning news, so we love that.
Jane King:
Right. And, I have some great fill ins, like you!
Bobbi Rebell:
I do.
Jane King:
Good help.
Bobbi Rebell:
I do help you out. I love doing it. But, let's talk about your money story, because it has to do with something near and dear to my heart, because I have had a lot of financial security come my way because of real estate investments. You made a big real estate purchase. We were actually all pregnant together, us and a bunch of friends.
Jane King:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
We had our babies all at the same time back in 2007 and we all bought real estate at that time. But, your story is a little bit different from the standard run of the mill story. Tell us what happened.
Jane King:
Well, I got caught up in that whole disaster of what we lived in 2008 and 2009. So, I was working as a financial reporter at the time and I just had this feeling that the housing market was over valued. I, you know, I had even had discussions with people. I'm like, come on, the average house is $250,000. But, the average American is only making like 45 and nothing just added up. So, I just ...
Bobbi Rebell:
Right, so logically, you went to buy a house. A home.
Jane King:
Well, so here's how this all came about. So, we had a friend who was moving and he said “Hey, how would you like to buy our apartment?” And, I was like “Oh, I really don't want to do that.” He was like “Oh, we don't have to pay commissions.” I was pregnant at the time as you mentioned. I thought “Well, gosh, it wouldn't be good for the child to have a house instead of a rental, for some reason. Even though, it kind of makes no sense.” Our accountant weighed in. Said the tax write offs were great so, we bought a home. Let's see. We closed on that in March or May of 2007, and ...
Bobbi Rebell:
So, right before Max was born?
Jane King:
Right before Max was born and at almost the exact peak of the housing market. When we closed on the home, I think they were around, just under seven percent. Like, six and a half or six point seven.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which, sounds really high right now.
Jane King:
Sounds high right now, but this was 2007. They went all the way down to three something and we just could not take advantage of that because the home values just ... the value of the appraisals were coming in too low. So ...
Bobbi Rebell:
So, your equity was not high enough to refinance?
Jane King:
That's right. So, third times a charm. Finally got that done, and of course we paid all the fees and everything in the process. But ...
Bobbi Rebell:
So, so much for saving so much on the commission.
Jane King:
So much for saving on the commission. You know, I don't know. You know, it was a co-op. We had trouble selling it because the co-op board was just ... that's another thing. I would never buy in a co-op again.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, let's go back to the story. So, okay, you get into the apartment. First of all, you wanted to refinance just because the rates were going lower, right?
Jane King:
Oh yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Jane King:
We did, but it was, you know, a couple thousand dollars a month difference.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh wow. So, your payments were high, number one. So, number two, then you're being rejected from refinancing because your equity relative to the value of the home was not a good enough ratio.
Jane King:
That's right.
Bobbi Rebell:
And then, number three, why did you want to sell? Why not, once you were able to refinance, why not just hang there?
Jane King:
Well, because it's a co-op and you can't rent it out for more than two years, so another one of those co-op rules that you have to deal with in New York City. So, we could only rent it out for two years and then we had to finally sell it. Because, we had moved to a different neighborhood and we weren't really ...
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so why did you move then, I guess is the question. Because, you bought it in 2007, why not just live there?
Jane King:
Two things. So, one was the apartment was up by Columbia University and they were taking over the building where my husband had a business. So, we needed to find a new location for the business, and the timing of that was right at the time when my son was entering Kindergarten and the schools in that area, of course, I was pregnant at the time. I didn't even think about to ask about the schools, but the schools in that area were not good schools. So, we moved to a better district where the schools were better. My husband set up a business and, you know in the end, everything's better. But, it's just I don't know. I wish I would have just trust my instinct at the time because I feel like I knew, gut, what was going on with the housing market. I don't think I understood just how deep the problems were, but you just got to trust your gut. We know more than we think we do.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from your story?
Jane King:
Well, I would think that if you're somewhat informed about finances, trust your gut. Don't let somebody else talk you into something. Whether, it's buying an apartment or buying a stock or buying something else, you know, whatever. I would just trust your gut and really think about it, because I do think we know more instinctively than we think we do.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your every day money tip. Because, this is very basic and yet, sort of brilliant because it probably works. I mean, if it does work for you, I think it would work for a lot of our listeners.
Jane King:
Well, it's so easy. Anybody can do this. I pay all my bills on Saturday morning. It helps me keep all of my accounts in check. I know what the balances are. Nothing is ever paid late. So, I don't have any of the late fees or anything like that. I just set them down. It's part of my morning. My Saturday morning routine along with doing the laundry and doing the dishes, its I sit down and pay the bills. And, it's so easy and I think it's a great tip and anybody can do it. You can start this Saturday!
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes! Or, it can be any day of the week. The point is that you have an appointment with yourself to focus on your finances.
Jane King:
That's right. Saturday morning works well for me. Whatever day happens to work with you is good. It's just I'm a creature of routine and I find that it helps me lead a more organized life.
Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. Alright, tell us more about what's going on with your podcast KaChing.
Jane King:
Okay. KaChing with Jane King. It's all about kids and money. It really kind of comes from the financial crisis, because I felt like people were doing irresponsible things because they didn't know. They didn't know that housing doesn't go up forever or that you can't spend more than you earn. You know, things like this, so I really decry the lack of financial education in our schools and in our society. So, I started this little podcast and we have some great guests on there. Authors, and people who come and they talk about, you know, just helping to raise kids so they're financially responsible. KaChing with Jane King.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright everyone. Check it out. Thank you so much Jane, you're the best!
Jane King:
Thank you Bobbi! Great to see you!
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, there's a lot to take from Jane's story. The first thing though, that strikes me is this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: If you make a real estate mistake. Admit it and get out. Jane did that right. Holding on to something you bought. Just because you bought it, is not going to fix the problem. And yes, you could lose money, but holding on, you could lose even more money. You don't know. So, staying put is just going to add to the pain. When we drill down the key problem with the apartment, was that the schools weren't a fit for Jane's kids. The other issue was that her husband's business was losing its lease. So, by paying the price, and it was expensive, it was painful for her. But, admitting the mistake, her family was able to move to one of, if not, the best public school districts in the entire city. Her husband set up a new business, in a hot neighborhood, with great clientele, and they moved on and they prospered. Digging in their heels and hoping things would just get better would have been a mistake.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's talk about Jane's business, LilaMax Media, which produces content primarily from the NASDAQ market site. So, this is the bonus story that I mentioned at the top. Her previous employer, Bloomberg, was shutting down that line of business. She and her partner, Bob Morris, figured out a way to make the economics work with lower overhead as a smaller company. So, instead of being out of work, Jane actually became the co-founder of a business that is going strong more than four years later.
Bobbi Rebell:
She took a terrible situation and made it into an opportunity of a lifetime and yes, you can see me filling in for Jane, so DM me and say “hi” if you see me on your local news in the early hours of the morning. If you have not already hit that subscribe button, so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and be in touch. On Twitter, I am @BobbiRebell. On Instagram @BobbiRebell1. On Facebook @BobbiRebell and as I said, DM me. I love hearing your feedback on the podcast.
Bobbi Rebell:
Jane had to make some very Grownup decisions as a consequence of that against the gut real estate decision, but she did it. And, it's a great lesson. Trust your gut, and if you find yourself having made the wrong decision, get the heck out. So, thanks Jane for helping us get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Announcer:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.
High Fiving Dollars' Sarah Li Cain had a contract that said her company had to pay her medical costs, but when she got pregnant, she and her husband had to come up with a strategic plan to actually collect the cash they were owed. Plus her tips on how to make sure you get the luxuries you want in life, without feeling nickel and dime’d
In Sarah’s money story you will learn:
-The challenge Sarah faced when pregnant as a teacher in China
-How the healthcare system there required employees to pay upfront, and then fight to get re-imbursed
-The financial risk that created for Sarah and her colleagues
-How careful documentation helped to get her money back
-The technique Sarah used to negotiate with her employer and her boss for both her healthcare needs and those of her colleagues
In Sarah’s money lesson you will learn:
-That is is essential to read your contract when you take a job, and not assume it will provide things, even if it is the law.
-The importance of standing your ground when you are entitled to something.
In Sarah’s every day money tip you will learn:
-Why she is willing to pay more for homes that have the amenities that are important to her and her family
-The importance of building in value-add activities and facilities into your home or community, so you don’t have to spend extra cash to have services and other things that you value but might not pay for on an individual basis.
In My Take you will learn:
-The importance of documentation especially when you need to be re-imbursed by an employer
-The tools and apps I personally use for document management and scanning
-My take on lifestyle amenities where you live
-The crazy and outrageous amenities that may not be worth paying for in many cases
Episode Links
Learn more about Sarah at https://highfivingdollars.com/
Listen to her podcast with Garrett Philbin (from Be Awesome not Broke) Beyond the Dollar! https://highfivingdollars.com/podcast/
Follow Sarah Li Cain!
Twitter: @sarahlicain
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/highfivingdollars
Pinterest https://www.pinterest.com/sarahlicain/
The tools I use to store and track documents are
Dropbox dropbox.com
Evernote evernote.com
The App I use to scan documents is Jotnot https://www.jotnot.com/
Here’s a fun article from curbed.com on The Most outrageous amenities in NYC apartments https://ny.curbed.com/2017/12/18/16743830/nyc-outrageous-apartment-amenities-2017
Here is one from Elledecor.com on over the top amenities
https://www.elledecor.com/life-culture/fun-at-home/g14031044/over-the-top-amenities-nyc/
And here is one from Streeteasy.com on What Building Amenities to New Yorkers Want Most?
https://streeteasy.com/blog/nyc-building-amenities-top-10-most-popular/
Transcription
Sarah Li Cain:
I don't think they really thought it through if someone were to get pregnant because I chose to go with someone who was able to speak English because I don't speak Chinese and so they were pretty expensive. I think I racked up a total about $25,000.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. That was holistic money coach Sarah Li Cain of the blog High Fiving Dollars and the podcast Beyond the Dollar, taking a stroll down memory lane to a financial experience she'd probably rather forget. But she got through it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone and thanks for taking the time to join us here at Financial Grownup. We keep the shows on the short side so you can squeeze it into your busy day. But if you have more time, or are commuting, they are also meant to be listened to a few at a time. So when you subscribe, make sure the settings are at auto download and you will get three episodes each week.
Bobbi Rebell:
Back to Sarah. Her story is truly a financial grownup one because it begins with the birth of her first child which is a big life transition in and of itself, without all the financial responsibilities that comes with it, and she had to deal with a lot of money headaches. Here is Sarah Li Cain.
Bobbi Rebell:
Sarah Li Cain, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Sarah Li Cain:
Thank you so much for having me Bobbi. I'm a big fan.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh thank you, and I am a huge fan of yours ever since we met a couple of years ago actually at FinCon, which is a conference for content creators, because you were behind High Fiving Dollar and now the new Beyond the Dollar podcast. So congratulations on all of your success.
Sarah Li Cain:
Thank you so much.
Bobbi Rebell:
You are a holistic money coach. You also as I mentioned are a financial writer, and you are also someone who has worked all over the world, which brings us to the money story that you brought with you to share because it has to do with the time that you spent in China and something momentous that happened while you were there. Tell us.
Sarah Li Cain:
Yes, so actually spent a total about eight years in China. So before I was a writer and a money coach I was a elementary school teacher at a bunch of different international schools. My very last job, my husband and I found out that were pregnant. The interesting thing was in my contract the employer actually didn't pay for healthcare. So it's the employer legally has to provide you with healthcare, and so instead of actually giving us health insurance he had a little clause at the bottom of the contract that basically said we will reimburse 100% of any healthcare cost that you incur.
Bobbi Rebell:
That sounds really good.
Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah, it does, except if you don't have the money upfront and pay for that, then it makes it very difficult. And so for some of my coworkers-
Bobbi Rebell:
So you had to front the money?
Sarah Li Cain:
Yes. For some of my coworkers it was very difficult for them, number one, the ones who have children, they had to cover all their healthcare cost, and number two, I remember one of my coworkers had ... It wasn't major surgery but it was fairly big. She actually [inaudible 00:03:28] having to borrow money to cover that, until the employer was willing to basically reimburse it.
Bobbi Rebell:
So wait. Was it a situation where you would have to pay out of pocket and then basically fight to get reimbursed?
Sarah Li Cain:
Yes, exactly. So as long you had the receipt in theory they were going to pay you back. I don't think they really thought it through if someone were to get pregnant because healthcare is fairly cheap in China, but I chose to go with someone who was able to speak English because I don't speak Chinese and so they were pretty expensive. So I think I racked up a total about $25,000 American, including the birth, including the prenatal and postnatal care.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you had to forward that money, you had to pay that, and then try to get reimbursed?
Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah. One thing I did try to do was as the receipts payments, so every month when I'd have my prenatal appointments I would just sent, forward the receipt to my ... the owner of the school. Then the principal and I sat down and I said, "Listen, you know this is going to get really expensive. I'm going forward the boss or the owner a big, big bill, probably at least 10 grand after all of my prenatal appointments. He's going to have to be very careful because he's going to make sure, like, he's going to have that money and give it me." The principal and I actually worked together and figured out a way to approach the owner and how we were ... She was going to help me get that. The principal was going to help me get that money back.
Bobbi Rebell:
Was the school which is almost an independent school that did not have big financial resources, was that part of the issue why you were worried they wouldn't have the money?
Sarah Li Cain:
Part of it was the owner was new. I think he had taken over that school maybe for about a year, and number two, he's been, and this like anecdotal evidence, I haven't directly heard him say this but he's always mentioned about try to pay as little as possible for the foreign staff as he called us, and so I kind of knew that if I slapped him with this $25,000 bill that he'd probably pretty shocked and would try to find a way out of it.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what happened?
Sarah Li Cain:
I actually added up, I predicted all the cost for the birth and everything like that and I forwarded it to my principal. Then again the principal and I sat down and we basically said, "Okay, what's the best case scenario, what's the worst case, where can we meet in the middle with him." So we kind of came up with different ways to negotiate with him. The best case was he gives all that money back to me in one go. The second the best was if he paid in installments. And the worst case he refused.
Sarah Li Cain:
But I also said, "Hey, listen, I'm a great employee," and I actually calculated how many students that I brought into the school, so it kind of proved to him that like, hey, I'm helping you make money so therefore this little $25,000 expense wasn't that expensive in the grand scheme of things. What happened then was my principal then forwarded all of this information to the owner of the school and he actually agreed and was like, "Okay, I will pay all this back, I'll reimburse you as soon as you provide all the bills."
Bobbi Rebell:
And did they?
Sarah Li Cain:
Yes. So they did try to fight us a little bit. After my son was born my husband was the one to submit all the bills and so. Then they negotiated with him and said, "Well, we can't pay all this all at once. Is there some way we can just pay you back in increments?" So they did I think pay us the money back in about five installments but we did end up getting all the money back.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, that's great. But you used this to actually make broader changes.
Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah. The funny thing was I had no idea that my principal was trying to fight for everyone to get free health insurance. Again, the owner of the school had to legally provide this. She actually ended up using the large medical bill to say to the owner, was like, "Hey, listen, what if another one of your employees gets pregnant. That's like a huge cost," and then she actually presented him with different health insurance options in China and how it ended up being cheaper. And so because of what happened with me, the entire staff actually got free health insurance afterwards.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So how did you feel during this time? I mean you're pregnant, you're having to fight for all this stuff. What were your coworkers saying?
Sarah Li Cain:
It was really interesting. My coworkers didn't necessarily directly ask me about the money side of things because I think in their mind they're like, "Oh man, Sarah's really going to have to fight for this money because the owner is such a cheapskate," as they called him. I was really thankful because ... So my husband and I worked together, and so he really advocated for me when I couldn't, like when I was out on maternity leave and when I was just too tired to really say anything. So he would push me like, "No, listen, Sarah, you have to fight this," or he would go in himself and then talk to the principal which I found out later that he did, and say like, "Here, how can we negotiate all of this?" If it wasn't for his support, I probably wouldn't be able to keep pursuing the money.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?
Sarah Li Cain:
The lesson is number one, read your contract, and number two, stand your ground. If it says in your contract that you're supposed to get something, then fight for it because it's written down, it's not a verbal contract, it's a written contract, so definitely pursue it, and get as much support as you need in order to pursue it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back is there anything you would've done different yourself?
Sarah Li Cain:
No, not at all.
Bobbi Rebell:
And Sarah, that brings us to your everyday money tip which also kind of has to do with your health and wellness.
Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah. One of the things I really strive to do is that whenever my husband and I are renting a new place, or when we're looking for a new apartment, we always make sure the kind of amenities there are. We're always looking for somewhere with a gym, how easy it is to walk from let's say the supermarket or my son's preschool, if there's a swimming pool, and just anything else where we don't have to spend extra money. For example, an apartment that we just rented is actually a five minute walk to my son's preschool, it's a few minutes walk to a couple of supermarkets, it's actually closer to my husband's work, it's got a gym, it's got a swimming pool, it's got a playground for my son. So we're effectively saving thousands of dollars a year because now that I can walk with my son to preschool, I don't need a second car. I can just walk again to the supermarket when I need to. I'm saving money on membership fees, things like that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. All right, Sarah, tell us more about what you're up to. I know you have started season two of your podcast.
Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah. So Beyond the Dollar I co-host it with another money coach, Garrett Philbin. We're just having a lot of fun. We discuss a lot of issues that go literally beyond the dollar, just not practical finance tips, but more of the deeper how money really affects your well being. You can also find me in High Fiving Dollars. I talk a lot about my personal life there. If you have any questions, I love answering reader questions there as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Sarah.
Sarah Li Cain:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that Sarah and her husband paid it forward fighting for everyone else to have real health insurance even after they had won their own battle. Financial Grownup tip number one, whenever you know you're going to need to be reimbursed, as was the case with Sarah and her husband, document everything and make sure you have backups including electronic backups. I happen to use Evernote and Dropbox for storage, and I use an app called JotNot as a mobile scanner, and from that app I can upload to the Evernote and/or Dropbox accounts.
Bobbi Rebell:
Make sure you follow up on getting reimbursed, and on bills sometimes the way that the healthcare system is set up may not be as well-run as you would necessarily expect. If you want to learn more about the dangers of what can happen if you're not on top of these things, check out my interview with Chris Browning of the Popcorn Finance podcast. Just go to bobbirebell.com/podcast/chrisbrowning.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, let's talk about lifestyle amenities because I know Sarah's a big fan of them. She makes this a priority. There's an upside and there's a downside. If you have amenities built into your rent or your home cost, you don't have to worry that if money gets tight or you just have a lot of expenses coming up or you're feeling uneasy about your financial situation, you're not going to feel pressured to say take a break from the gym. On the other hand, they do add to your overhead in most cases and if you're not going to use certain amenities, you need to factor that in and be honest with yourself.
Bobbi Rebell:
For example, just about all of us can at least make the argument that we can make good use of a gym. We might blow it off in reality, but we can at least make the case. That might be worth paying for when you're looking for a new residence, especially if it's in a community or an apartment building that has a really nice one. But if you don't have young kids, something like a playground does not add value to your life.
Bobbi Rebell:
Those are pretty mainstream amenities, but some buildings can even have quirky amenities that sound so cool like wine cellars, relaxation lounges, climbing walls, hydrotherapy circuits, bowling allies, pet spas, and of course dog training studio, something we all look for. They are designed to wow buyers and renters, but just because something looks super cool when you're checking out the residence, doesn't mean it's something that you're going to actually use. If they deliver value for you, that's great. But some are just gimmicky and can up the prices. By the way, if you want to read about some of the crazy things happening in the amenities business, I'm going to leave a few fun articles about hot new amenities in the show notes for you guys.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you have not already hit that Subscribe button so you don't miss any upcoming episodes, remember, the episodes are short, about 15 minutes, so if you want to listen for longer, there are three new episodes every week so you can easily binge on a bunch if you have a long commute or you're just running errands and you want a little more content.
Bobbi Rebell:
Be in touch. I am on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and on Facebook @bobbirebell, and of course DM me your feedback on the podcast. Thanks to Sarah Li Cain and her growing family for helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Time management expert Laura Vanderkam on how she and her husband decided to pay it forward to free up time to create available time for career and business growth. Plus behind the scenes info on how she wrote her latest bestseller “Off The Clock” and a sneak peak at her next project.
In Laura’s money story you will learn:
-Why it has taken Laura so long to figure out the right childcare setup
-How she balances being a frugal person with the reality of her childcare needs
-The problems that emerged as her speaking and writing career began to gain more traction
-How working from home made her childcare issues more complicated
-The specific things she changed when she hired a new nanny
-Why she chose a certain schedule and the specific benefits that provided
-Specific examples of work situations where her new childcare set up allowed her to earn more money
In Laura’s money lesson you will learn:
-The reason Laura considers childcare an investment in your earning potential, even if you pay for it when you aren’t technically working
-The importance of going to what she called the “extra stuff’ like networking events and conferences
-Why you should sometimes pay for an extra half an hour of childcare, and what to do with that time
-The relevance of Serena Williams to the conversation and what we can learn from her recent experience missing a major milestone in her child’s life.
In Laura’s every day money tip you will learn:
-Why handwritten notes are important in business
-How Laura has used them to increase her connection with friends and business associates
-How Laura uses that habit to connect on a personal level with her readers and fans.
In My Take you will learn:
-How to use money to solve productivity challenges
-A specific way Harry Potter author JK Rowling used this strategy
-Apps and other options that can help you execute the same strategy as JK Rowling
-Why some people are late all the time
-How to not be late
We also talk about:
Laura’s new book “Off The Clock” and how she conducted the exclusive research
The importance of time perception
Laura’s Ted Talk and how we can integrate those lessons into time choices
Laura’s podcast with Sarah Hart Unger “Best of Both Worlds”
Her next project Juliet’s school of possibility which is a fable about Time Management
Episode Links
Learn more about Laura at her website LauraVanderkam.com
Check out her podcast “Best of Both Worlds”
Get Laura’s book “Off The Clock!”
Follow Laura!
Twitter @lvanderkam
Facebook LauraVanderkamAuthor
Instagram lvanderkam
LinkedIn Laura Vanderkam
Apps for last minute discount hotels
hoteltonight.com
OneNight.com
Hotelquickly.com
Transcription
Laura Vanderkam:
We had a lot of snow. We could see that this huge snow system was coming into Pennsylvania. My client out in Michigan who they have this big event booked around me said, "Well, could you come out early?" The idea of being a working mom of four kids who could like suddenly go 24 hours earlier to an event overnight even though my husband was also out of town, I could do it. I could just say yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of how to be a financial grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So that was time management expert and prolific writer, Laura Vanderkam. Her latest book is Off The Clock, which we're going to talk about. A special welcome to our new listeners and, of course, returning ones. As you guys know, we keep it short because I'm a big believer in delivering value for your time. You can always earn more money but time is priceless and we appreciate the time that you spend with us. So we aim for about 15 minutes but you can stack a few episodes together. We do three a week. So make it work for your life. Hit subscribe, put your settings to automatically download, so you're going to have each episode without having to do any work. Go for the easy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about time management. So interesting behind the scenes fact ... financial grownup fact here. I came very prepared for this interview with Laura Vanderkam. I was ready to be super efficient and respectful of her time but, in the true spirit of her latest book, Off The Clock, she was not in a hurry at all and, in fact, she said she had all the time in the world. How does she do that? Listen to the interview and then make the time to read her book. The time spent will literally pay for itself. Here is Off The Clock author, Laura Vanderkam.
Bobbi Rebell:
Laura Vanderkam, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Laura Vanderkam:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your latest book. It's called, Off The Clock, Feel Less Busy While Getting More Done. I can't wait to see what your next book's going to be. Maybe I'll get a teaser out of you. What are you working on?
Laura Vanderkam:
Actually, my next book will be out in March 2019, and it's a time management staple, it's called, Juliet's School of Possibility. So, yeah, there you go.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.
Laura Vanderkam:
The commercial for the next one.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, absolutely. But, in the meantime, once we finish all of your books, we also can listen to your podcast, Best of Both Worlds, which is with Sarah Hart Unger, and that's also one of my new obsessions.
Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah, we really do believe that work and family can work together, that people can succeed at both and love both. And so, that's what the podcast covers.
Bobbi Rebell:
And one thing that you guys discuss a lot beyond just time management, but time management as it pertains to kids and getting work done, and that brings us to your money story.
Laura Vanderkam:
Like many parents, it has taken me a long time to sort of figure out what the right childcare setup truly is. And, being a kind of frugal person, I didn't want to spend all that much. So it was always trying to get by on less than I probably needed for me and my husband, and you know, he travels and works long hours, and I was certainly starting to as my speaking career was starting to grow. And so, you know, it was figuring out, well, what kind of childcare do I need? And I'd always spend, you know, normal work hours, maybe eight to five. I mean, I worked from home, certainly I should be able to do that. But the problem is, we need like overnight coverage and we wouldn't have it because people would have other plans cause, hey, we're leaving at five. They'd have other things they were doing in the evening. You know, it was just difficult to make it work.
Laura Vanderkam:
So, when we were hiring a new nanny about two years ago, we decided that, well, we truly do need more hours. Let's go ahead and make the investment in doing it. And so, we hired somebody who's initial schedule was to work eight to eight, Monday through Thursday. And the upside of doing eight to eight, it's only 48 hours, right? So it's not excessive.
Bobbi Rebell:
So were you cutting out Fridays?
Laura Vanderkam:
Well, we had ... at the time there was another person working on Fridays for part-time. You know, that was the idea. It was like, you're going to have 60 hours of care, split it among two people because you don't burn one person out.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, then, you also have a backup, right?
Laura Vanderkam:
We do have a backup. Right. Yeah. So you have one full-time, one part-time. So the upside of having the evenings, I could go to networking events, like even if my husband was working late. Or, if I needed to be somewhere, I wasn't racing back and apologizing for being late. We had the evening covered. We had an extra driver for school stuff, for activities.
Bobbi Rebell:
Cause you have four kids by the way.
Laura Vanderkam:
Cause I have four small children. But the real upside has turned out to be that, when you hire someone to work eight to eight, they tend not to book stuff in the evening. So then, arranging for them to stay overnight, and we also hired somebody who was willing to do that. It was basically, pay me overtime I'll do it. Meant that there wasn't always this scrambling thing because it was relatively easy to just get that extra hours in there. And so, yes, it's expensive to have a lot of childcare and to have the availability of overnight coverage, you know, paying overtime for that. But, you know, I really see moments where it paid off.
Laura Vanderkam:
This spring, for instance, I was traveling a lot. I mean, I was giving one or two speeches a week that required travel, we had a lot of snow. One day in early March we could see that this huge snow system was coming into Pennsylvania. My client out in Michigan, who, you know, they have this big event booked around me, said, "Well, could you come out early?" You know, the idea of being a working mom of four kids who could like suddenly go 24 hours earlier to an event overnight even though my husband was also out of town, I could do it. Like I could just say yes. And that's what it has been enabling me to get like bigger ticket speaking jobs, ones that are paying more than I certainly would've imagined I could've gotten five, six years ago. And I think it's because I feel like I know I can say yes.
Laura Vanderkam:
But, you know, it's really an investment in your earning potential. And, if you're always trying to get by on less childcare than you need, then you won't say yes to the extra stuff. You won't go to that networking opportunity. You won't go to that conference. You won't maybe stay late that one night when you know your boss is going to see it and really remember it because you're trying to race out. And, over the longterm, those things really do add up. So I really like to think of childcare more as an investment than an expense. And, if you can get your head around that idea, I think you'll really start feeling like a financial grownup.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners? How can they apply it to their lives?
Laura Vanderkam:
Well, I think, take an honest assessment of what amount of childcare you have and, if possibly increasing that by a little bit would make your life a lot easier, less stressful, or enable you to pursue professional opportunities that you haven't so far. So it could be maybe an investment in life satisfaction. Maybe pay the person for an extra half hour after you get home, so you don't immediately have to race into serving everyone, making dinner, while you also have kids jumping on you cause they haven't seen you all day. Maybe that person could start dinner while you deal with the kids, right, and have some time with them.
Laura Vanderkam:
Or maybe it's just that, you know, occasionally you'd like to get stuff done a little bit later instead of racing out to make a 5 p.m. daycare pickup. Maybe you can arrange for an evening sitter just like one day a week, right? And that person covers maybe five to eight, and you can get stuff done when the office is quiet, or people see you be there late, or you go to networking events. And, you know, then you've made this investment and it will probably pay off over time.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I love that you point out those intangible things, like going to a networking event because sometimes people view that as social, but it's social, but it's really also an investment in your career to be out there with your peers. I know Serena Williams recently missed a big milestone because she was training and it can happen to any mom, no matter what. So, you can't let those hold you back from doing things that might benefit your career.
Laura Vanderkam:
SO I think this idea like rearranging your whole life to not miss anything, it's never going to happen. And, if you have more than one kid, you'll miss some stuff cause you're at the other kids stuff. And, you know, people adjust, they grow up, they learn the universe does not revolve them. It's all good.
Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.
Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah, you know. So, it's worth doing a little bit extra sometimes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. And there are other ways to bond with people outside of your family, bond with people regarding work in your professional endeavors, and that brings us to your everyday money tip, which is just genius, and I got to experience myself.
Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah. Well, this doesn't seem like a money tip but it's in line with the idea of networking and building your network, and getting to know people, and establishing these relationships, which is, send handwritten notes. This doesn't seem like a money tip but I can tell you that people are far more inclined to like you when it seems that you have bothered to establish, like put a little effort into establishing a connection with them. It's also memorable because most people don't do it.
Laura Vanderkam:
So, when I sent you my book, I included a handwritten note thanking you for your interest in it, and for being willing to take your valuable time to read it. I had a thing going on my website that I was asking people to pre-order Off The Clock, and what people did, they gave me their mailing address so I could send them a signed bookplate that they could stick in the cover when it showed up from whatever online retailer that they pre-ordered it through. You know, I'm mailing them anyway, why not send them a handwritten note? So I sent a handwritten thank you note to everybody who pre-ordered and gave me their address. And this is, you know, a lot.
Bobbi Rebell:
But you made the time because it was important to you.
Laura Vanderkam:
Because it was important. So I kept reminding myself, as I was doing it ... my hand was cramping up. I'm like, you should be so grateful that these people are willing to spend money on a product of yours sight unseen. Those are your big fans you want to connect with them, and I do want to connect with them.
Bobbi Rebell:
I just want to take another minute to talk a little bit about Off The Clock. As we mentioned, I did read it on vacation. It was great. You talk about people expand time. That was one of my favorite themes in the book. Tell us more about that theory and how people can apply it to their lives, cause that to me was the most important takeaway from this book.
Laura Vanderkam:
So, for Off The Clock, I had 900 people with full-time jobs and families track their time for a day, and then I asked them questions about how they felt about their time. So I could give people scores based on their time perception. Like did they have high time perception scores? They felt time was abundant. Or low time perception scores. They felt time was scarce, stressful, all that stuff. Compare the schedules with people who felt like they had a lot of time, people who felt they had no time.
Laura Vanderkam:
People who felt like they had the most time also spent the most time actively engaged with family and friends. So they spent the leisure time that they did have nurturing their relationships, whereas people who had the lowest time perceptions scores tended to spend their time watching TV or on social media. You know, it's not that one group had more leisure time than the other. Everyone was busy. Everyone had full-time jobs, families, but people choose to spend the time that they do have discretionary choices over in different ways. And, apparently, spending time with family and friends makes us feel very off the clock.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. And that's, by the way, we didn't mention your Ted Talk, which is amazing. One of the things that you point out in your Ted Talk is that, instead of just fast forwarding through commercials to save time when watching TV, you could just watch less TV. So it's pretty straight forward.
Laura Vanderkam:
The problem with writing that time management, I've seen all these articles over the years of like how to find an extra hour in the day by shaving bits of time off every day activities, and stuff like Taebo, or forward through the commercials. Save eight minutes every half hour over two hours of watching TV, you find 32 minutes to exercise. Like, come on. You're watching TV for two hours, you already had 32 minutes to exercise. Let's not fool ourselves.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You called us all out. Tell us where people can find out more about you and all of your different ventures, podcasts, Ted Talk, books, newsletter, all of it.
Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah, come visit my website, lauravanderekam.com. That's just my name. You can learn more about my books including Off The Clock and the podcast, Best of Both Worlds. We'd love to have some of your listeners take some of the extra commutes that they're not listening to your wonderful podcast on, and come give it a listen.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much Laura.
Laura Vanderkam:
Thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. There were so many great takeaways from that and from the book, Off The Clock. I'm going to give you a couple more here and, of course, you can check out the book and get even more.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip number one. Money can solve productivity problems. One of my favorite examples in the book is when Laura talks about Harry Potter author, J.K. Rowling. She was writing her seventh book, [inaudible 00:12:41]. So, by this point she had financial resources to say the least. But she couldn't get any work done in her house because the window cleaner was there, and the kids were home, and the dogs were barking. And then J.K. Rowling says in this story, a light bulb went on. I can throw money at this problem. And you know what? She decamped to a hotel to finish the draft and it worked cause she was able to focus. Money solved the problem.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now, not all of us think that we have the budget to do that. I've never done that and to me it does seem extreme on the surface. However, because of the new resources that we have and we're going to give you some ideas and apps that we have access to now, there are very reasonable hotel rooms available at the last minute in our own cities, and that is something we could potentially look into when we just need to get to a place where we can focus on getting our work done, especially when we're coming up against a big deadline. So some app examples are: Hotel Tonight, One Night, and Hotel Quickly. And you can find very cheap deals in your city very often using apps like these. I'll put the links in the show notes.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you don't have a budget, maybe you have a friend with a spare bedroom. Tell them what you're up to so they don't expect you to be social, but maybe you can use that. And, if it's just a few hours that you need, of course, you can go to a coffee shop. That's always available as a resource for many people. But another option, sometimes, is to just go to your local library and just hunker down in a quiet area there and get some work done.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip number two. Be a pessimist when deciding when to leave for important meetings or trips. Vanderkam discovered that people who are late, even though I think it's often inconsiderate or poor planning, really what it is, is they're optimists. They always remember the best scenario of getting to a place. So, if they're planning a trip that involves going to the airport, they might remember that it only took 15 minutes to get to the airport but, of course, what they don't remember is that was at, you know, 5 a.m. on a Sunday when no one else was going. Maybe this time they're going at 9 a.m. on a Monday morning and they don't factor in that it's going to take a lot longer. So, because they're not planning according to the worse case scenario, things go awry. So plan according to the worst case scenario and, you know what, maybe you'll get there early and you'll have extra time, and you can do something fun with that time.
Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to you for gifting this time to yourself to hopefully improve your life just a little thanks to the wonderful advice and wisdom from Laura Vanderkam. Please be in touch. Follow me on Twitter@bobbirebell, on Instagram@bobbirebell1, and on Facebook@bobbirebell, and DM me with your thoughts on the podcast. Laura Vanderkam is living a very financially grownup life. I got so much value from taking the time to read, Off The Clock, and I know you will too. So thank you Laura for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.
Carol Roth’s father left a priceless gift when he passed. Now, she is using that to help others map out their plans for everything from their social media accounts, to their cryptocurrency and bitcoin assets, using her innovative FutureFile system.
In Carol’s money story you will learn:
-How losing close members of her family and loved ones impacted her outlook on life, and on finances
-How she got a credit card at the age of 10!
-Why her dad was so concerned about preparing his children for his eventual death
-How her dad created a filing system and what it included
In Carol’s money lesson you will learn:
-How Carol and her siblings used the file her dad created
-Exactly how much money it saved her and her family, both in actual money but also in the time they did not have to spend on estate related issues
-The mental relief the family had because of the system their dad had put in place
In Carol’s every day money tip you will learn:
-Why Carol believes no one should own depreciating assets
-How we can enjoy things like private jets without having to own them (JK)
-What kinds of investments we should be making instead of in things like cars and boats and planes
-The best use of our transportation dollars
Carol also talks about her business Futurefile.com
-Why she created it
-What it contains including not just places for wills and basic estate planning but also places to put cryptocurrency keys if you have bitcoin, and how to manage social media
In my take you will learn:
-The importance of making a plan, any plan, for when you are ill or pass away
-My experience knowing my mom’s wishes when she passed
-My take on whether you should own a car, and why I don’t fully agree with Carol
-Alternatives ways to save money if you do choose to have a car
EPISODE LINKS
Learn more about Carol Roth at https://www.carolroth.com/
Learn more about FutureFile at FutureFile.com
Follow Carol!!
Twitter @Caroljsroth
Facebook CarolJSRoth
Carol recommended not buying a private plane and instead using
NETJETS.com
More about Carol!
Carol Roth is the creator of the Future File® legacy planning system, “recovering” investment banker, billion-dollar dealmaker, investor, entrepreneur, business advisor, national media personality and author of the New York Times bestselling book, The Entrepreneur Equation.
Carol “plays herself on TV” weekly, having been a reality TV show judge (Mark Burnett’s America’s Greatest Makers on TBS), media contributor to outlets ranging from CNBC to Fox Business, and host of Microsoft’s Office Small Business Academy. She’s recognized internationally as a business expert and has worked with startups to the biggest companies and brands in the world on everything from strategy to content creation and marketing to billions of dollars in capital raising and transactional work.
Carol is dedicated to helping families prepare for and save time, cost and grief that comes with aging, medical issues and passing life events through her Future File products. She is a also former public company director and is a noted small business advocate. She invests in early and mid-stage companies as well.
Carol counts among her “accomplishments” having an action figure made in her own likeness, getting a standing ovation from Richard Branson and having the NFL follow her on Twitter.
Transcription
Carol Roth:
He was very clear. Do not buy me the Cadillac of caskets, which I can tell you, if he had not told me that, there is no way I would have gypped out on dad in that moment. Knowing that he likes black and gold and things like that. I would have spent the money.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to be a Financial Grownup." You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But, it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, that was business expert, Carol Roth. She is author of the bestseller, "The Entrepreneur Equation." You may have also caught her as a judge on the reality TV show, "America's Greatest Makers" on TBS. She's also seen a lot on TV: CNBC, Fox Business. You probably caught her. Her latest venture is called Future File. It's an idea that grew out of her own personal experiences with losing loved ones.
Bobbi Rebell:
Before we get to Carol's interview, a quick welcome to everyone. As our regulars know, we try to keep the shows short to match your busy life. But if you're traveling, commuting and have more time, feel free to binge. You can learn more about Financial Grownup at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast where you can also sign up for our newsletter.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's get to Carol because this interview was a real wake-up call for me on a lot of things that I just don't want to deal with, but Carol is a force to be reckoned with. Here is Carol Roth. Hey, Carol Roth, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Carol Roth:
Bobbi, it is so great to be here and to be all grown up with you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, thank you. It is a process for all of us, let me tell you. Many people already know you but, for those who don't, you are a big personality on TV. You are an author of the bestselling book "The Entrepreneur Equation," and you also have a business which is really an important business. We're going to talk about it a little bit more in-depth later in the show. But, it also ties into your money story because your money story led to it. Tell us your money story, Carol Roth.
Carol Roth:
This started when I was a senior in college. So I'm mourning the loss of somebody I had been in a relationship for a year and a half. I go off. I start my career, and my mom was diagnosed with leukemia. A year after that she passed, the day after her 51st birthday. So then I'm mourning these two losses. Then my stepmother, a few years later, is diagnosed with lung cancer, and she passes away at age 55. So at this point in time, my father, who despite not having a formal education, was very financially savvy. My dad was a union electrician. It was amazing. He couldn't spell banana. He spelled it bana, but he was the type of guy, he opened up a credit card for me somewhere around age 10 to establish my credit history.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. You got a credit card at age 10? First of all, they let you have that?
Carol Roth:
They did. Back in the day with a cosigner, as long as he co-signed on it, they didn't care, right? After we endure all these losses he says, “If something were to happen to me, and you and your sister have been through this now multiple times, if something were to happen to me, you guys wouldn't necessarily be prepared. So I'm gonna help you prepare.” Dad kept giving us pieces of paper, and the pieces of paper were, "I don't want you to spend this much money on a casket, I just want this. I don't want you to have two services. I just want a graveside service. Here's my insurance policy for this, and here's my wishes on this." Every time he'd give us a piece of paper, he'd say, "Stick it in the file."
Carol Roth:
So we had this running joke that we had this death file. We go okay, dad, whatever. We just continually collected information. As I said, my dad wasn't formally educated. So, low and behold, five years ago in May, my sister calls me on the phone and is like, "Carol, you know that file that dad has? Grab it and meet me at the hospital. He has been in a freak accident."
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, wow. This is just a paper file. This is not in any kind of cloud storage, on the computer, nothing?
Carol Roth:
No, this is literally a hard copy, accordion file folder with backs of envelopes, paper plates, envelopes, policies, wishes, this kind of amalgamation of information. Oh, and also keys, we had keys to his car, keys to security-
Bobbi Rebell:
So he made copies of the keys for everything?
Carol Roth:
Yes, everything.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Carol Roth:
Copies of everything, hard copies. So I literally, physically grabbed this file, Bobbi, and I run to the hospital. He had been in this horrible accident, and he was completely out of it, bleeding on the brain. They said, "Do you want us to operate?" We went through, said, "Okay, what does Dad say about this? Okay, Dad says that yes, he wants you to operate." So they went ahead and operated. When he came out, he just never recovered. He was just basically brain dead and being kept alive by machines. So we pull out the piece of paper, including the power-of-attorney that said that we have the authorization to make these decisions. Then we pull out the wishes that Dad had. Dad had said if we've gone through a relevant number of tests and we've gotten a few opinions and everybody's come to the same conclusion that the machines are keeping him alive, to pull the plug. We followed Dad's instructions, and obviously he did not make it. Then we had to go through laying the body to rest within a few days, all of the services and wrapping up his personal affairs.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what are the lessons for our listeners from your story?
Carol Roth:
The benefits that we got that you can get if you preplan is that we saved a lifetime of burden, which is priceless. I don't have to walk around shouldering did I make the right decision in this particular scenario? Should I have gotten another opinion? Because my dad had talked through it, he had written it down, I knew what his wishes were, You can't put a financial price on that. That is priceless.
Carol Roth:
The second thing, from a financial standpoint, is we saved more than 10000 tangible dollars, Bobbi. I'm not even joking. End-of-life costs, what people don't realize, are so incredibly expensive. Average just funeral and burial is $8500. Cremation with a funeral service is close to $7000. So just by going through this, we saved more than $10000, and then the five figures that we did end up spending on all of these sort of end-of-life things, he had put end-of-life insurance in place. So it's something that we didn't have to come up with that money or go into his estate and try and figure that out. So there's a tangible dollar savings.
Bobbi Rebell:
What's the money that you did not spend? Did you not have a funeral that he didn't want? What money did you save because of knowing his wishes?
Carol Roth:
So we saved money on the casket. If you go with a Cadillac of caskets, it could be 6500. It could be $9500. You can get one at Costco for $600. So he was very clear. Do not buy me the Cadillac of caskets, which I can tell you, if he had not told me that, there is no way I would have gypped out on dad in that moment. Knowing that he likes black and gold and things like that, I would have spent the money. So he told us not to do that. He told us to only have a graveside service. So instead of going into the funeral home and having the whole spiel there and then moving everybody to graveside and having a second spiel there, he didn't want that. He said just do the graveside. He didn't want flowers. He didn't want accoutrements. He didn't want programs.
Carol Roth:
Then I'm Jewish, so we do something called sitting shiva, which is similar to sort of visitation in the Christian religion. For that, he said, "Go to our clubhouse. Do it just the day of. Just have this and that and the other thing." By the instructions that he put out, we saved money there. So when we added it all up, it was well into the five figures. Then, as I said, we ended up spending five figures on stuff on top of that, but just the five figures of savings was incredible.
Carol Roth:
Then the other cost that is an indirect cost but was so incredibly valuable is he saved me hundreds of hours of time. If you look at how much I make in an hour, that's tangibly multiple six figures. So 200 at least, maybe 300, hours in trying to track down all of his accounts, all of his policies, making sure that we had everything, trying to find things like that safety deposit box key, making sure that he didn't have a treasure hunt for us somewhere where there was money hidden that we didn't know about. That's real money. I know people don't think of it that way. Sometimes people don't think of their time as money, but there is a true, tangible money cost associated with it.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You also brought with you a money tip. Awkwardly switching topics, but this has to do with depreciating assets, not investing in things that are going to go down in value.
Carol Roth:
Right. So basically, if it drives, floats or flies, you don't want to own it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. So I shouldn't aspire to get my private jet?
Carol Roth:
No, buy a NetJet card because when you have an asset, something that quote, unquote "invest in," that decreases in value every time you use it, that's not the kind of investment that you want to be making. But if you have a car and you're living in the city or you're living somewhere else and you don't drive that often, or maybe you're a multiple car household and you have an extra car that you really can do without, sell it. Because the amount of money that you have tied up in that car plus ongoing maintenance plus the cost of gas plus the cost of insurance, you have to license it every year, and some places you have to pay for parking, it's a huge amount of wasted money. We have so many options for transportation now. You have these on-demand services like Uber and Lyft. Obviously, taxis are becoming more competitive because of that. If you do need to go somewhere for a couple of days, you have rental car agencies that will actually deliver the car to you.
Carol Roth:
So if you go through and you write down how much it's going to cost you to take those couple of Ubers and maybe to rent the car a couple of times a year and you add all that up versus how much money that you're spending invested in that car and all of these other maintenance items and you compare the two, I guarantee you there will be no comparison.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. I do want to talk about your latest project because it came from these experiences with loved ones. It's called Future File, and it's genius. So please tell us a little bit about it.
Carol Roth:
When we told people our story, the feedback was so often, "I need to do that for my parents or grandparents." Or "I need to do that for my spouse." Or "I need to do that for myself. I don't know what's going on in the household." Or "We've got kids." So we took this prototype that our dad created for us, and we created a full kit called Future File at futurefile.com. It's basically a roadmap that walks you through everything you need to organize all of your wishes and information for either aging, passing or other family emergencies. So if somebody has a stroke or your house is burning down or whatever it is, it's one location that literally has access to everything you could possibly need. It helps you organize your wills and your powers-of-attorney. Also, your social media wishes, the budgeting that we talked about for long-term care, aging care, end of life. Even a place to put your cryptocurrency keys if you have bitcoin.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, wow. I know because you could have that, and then no one can get to it.
Carol Roth:
Well, that's the thing.
Bobbi Rebell:
They have to know.
Carol Roth:
Literally, it's not like a bank account that eventually, after hours and hours and hours and showing death certificates and going through probate, that you can access. If somebody doesn't have those keys, it's lost forever. So we didn't want to create any barriers to people doing this, so there's no subscription model. It's one-time. It's just under a hundred bucks.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, wow, that's it? That's amazing.
Carol Roth:
Yeah, if you listen to the story and you understand those burdens, it makes sense. So do it. Prepare yourself, prepare your family, and you'll help us give that gift that our father gave to us to you and your family.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people find out more about you and Future File?
Carol Roth:
Yes. So Future File, go to futurefile.com. Tons of information there. The best place to find me, especially if you have a little bit of an odd and off-color sense of humor, is on Twitter at caroljsroth.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you, Carol.
Carol Roth:
Thanks so much, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
So that was pretty heavy stuff but important to hear. I personally would prefer to just live in denial, but if we're going to be grownups, it's going to catch up to us sooner or later.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. I think Carol did a great job getting her point across. No plan is actually a burden on your survivors. So make a plan. Include traditional assets, but also, if you can, leave instructions for the less tangible things. Try to envision the kind of decisions that will be made if you would pass or if you were very ill. If you don't want to decide for them, empower them to make the decision that they think is best without worrying about what you would think. When my mom passed, she was very specific about a few things for my dad and for me and for my siblings, and that gave us all comfort and the freedom to know she was okay with our choices.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Carol talked a lot about getting rid of cars. So here's the thing. She may be right financially, but let's face it, for some people, it's just part of their lifestyle. It's like asking someone whose only joy is that latte to give up their latte. They need to cut something different. You can find a workaround. So in this case, maybe cut expenses that are related to the car or the asset that is depreciating. One option, renegotiate your insurance. Shop around. Consolidating your insurance can also be a way to lower the cost. Also, if you park in a garage, maybe you can park on the street. Can you renegotiate the garage fee? Is there a tax break associated with the garage if you are resident? We get that here in New York City. If you park at work, can your company reimburse or subsidize the parking? For those of us who have private jets, for example, we know fuel is getting more expensive. One way to pare back costs ... okay, I was just kidding about the whole private jet thing. Anyway, moving on.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for supporting the show. Hit subscribe if you can, and we'd love reviews and feedback. So thank you in advance if you can squeeze that into your day. Let's all try to find time soon to make a future file. Thank you, Carol Roth, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Tom Corley grew up in financial turmoil but after studying the wealthy was able to copy their habits and make his money dreams into a reality.
In Tom’s money story you will learn:
-How Tom’s childhood money disappointments created poor money habits in his early adulthood
-The specific things Tom’s parents did that created financial instability for Tom and his siblings
-Why his graduation party was cancelled because of his parents’ financial troubles
-How he was unable buy a car and to rent an apartment as a young adult again, because of his parents financial needs
-The emotional component of his financial challenges early in his life
-How a client inspired him to do the research that became “Rich Habits"
In Tom’s money lesson you will learn:
-The impact of your parents money habits on your own money habits
-The importance of avoiding “want spending" driven by envy
-How you can change those habits
-Why changing only two or three habits can change your life
-Tom’s habit that he does every day on his way to work to re-inforce gratitude
In Tom’s every day money tip
-Why successful people keep track of other people’s birthdays
-How calling them on their birthday makes a meaningful impact
-Why to avoid the birthday wish on social media
-The connection between the Happy Birthday habit and why it will help you prosper through genuine friendships
In My Take you will learn:
-How to move past parents who have poor money habits
-The advice Tony Robbins offers to people who get a rough start in life, as he did
-How my new friend Ramit Sethi uses birthdays as a way to connect with friends and get "Birthday Wisdom"
Episode Links:
Tom’s website: www.richhabits.net
Follow Tom!
Twitter: @RichHabits
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/thomas.c.corley.3
Learn more about Rich Neighbor, Poor Neighbor
Get Tom’s books including "Rich Habits, Poor Habits" and "Change Your Habits, Change Your Life” and “Rich Kids"
Tom is also writing a book called “The Other Side of Cancer”. Learn more about the Ashely Lauren Foundation which helps families struggling with pediatric cancer.
Also mentioned in the episode:
Tony Robbins
David Bach
Ramit Sethi
More about Tom Corley:
CBS Nightly News Interview: http://richhabits.net/cbs-news-rich-habits-interview-with-lisa-hughes/
Dave Ramsey Interview:http://richhabits.net/dave-ramsey-rich-habits-tom-corley/
SUCCESS Magazine Interviews: http://shar.es/1HKwDe http://shar.es/1HK95w
USA Today Article: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2015/02/22/credit-dotcom-credit-card-habits/23545023/
Tom Corley is an internationally recognized authority on habits and wealth creation.
Tom has spoken alongside Richard Branson, Robin Sharma, Dr. Daniel Amen and many other notable speakers.
In Tom’s five-year study of the rich and poor he identified over 300 daily habits that separated the “haves” from the “have nots.” Tom is s bestselling author and award winning author. His books include: Rich Habits, Rich Kids and Change Your Habits Change Your Life and Rich Habits Poor Habits.
Tom has appeared on or in CBS Evening News, The Dave Ramsey Show, CNN, MSN Money, USA Today, the Huffington Post, Marketplace Money SUCCESS Magazine, Inc. Magazine, Money Magazine, Kiplinger’s Personal Finance Magazine, Fast Company Magazine, Epoca Magazine (Brazil’s largest weekly) and thousands of other media outlets in the U.S. and 25 other countries. Tom is a frequent contributor to Business Insider, CNBC, SUCCESS Magazine and Credit.com.
Tom is also a CPA, CFP and holds a Master’s Degree in Taxation and heads a top financial firm in New Jersey
Transcription
Tom Corley:
I told all my friends that I'm having a graduation party, I told them the date, and a couple of weeks before the party date I just let my mother know, and she said, "We can't have a party, we don't have any money." I said, "Yeah, I know, I saved $200." That night my father came into my room and he said, "You know what, I hate to do this to you, but we need the money."
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my faith on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends, if you feel a big knot in your stomach from that clip you just heard from our guest today, I'm right there with you, this was a tough one. But it's also an important story, so I hope you stick with us. Welcome, everyone. As our regular listeners know, while we try to keep the mood light, we also get real here on the Financial Grownup podcast, and we listen and we learn from others' experiences. So my guests are brave and they reveal very personal financial stories sometimes, in the hopes that it will make your lives better, our lives better.
Bobbi Rebell:
Tom Corley is the author of a number of bestselling books including Rich Habits, and it was inspired by his devastating childhood experiences, but also how you can change your habits and have financial freedom. This really goes to the heart of what we try to do here. Here is Tom Corley.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Tom Corley, you are our financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Tom Corley:
Hi, Bobbi, thanks for having me on, I appreciate it.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so excited to have you because you are the author of Rich Habits, and we all need to develop rich habits for sure.
Tom Corley:
Yeah, I spent five years doing research on the daily habits of rich people and poor people, gathered three hundred and forty something data points, and decided to incorporate some of them, the most important keystone habits, into my book Rich Habits, which has become very popular around the world.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're being very modest, it's been a huge bestseller, and you've been on everything from Dave Ramsey to the CBS Evening News, literally you've been all over the place, and I know that the book has helped so many people, so thank you for that. Also I'm going to thank you in advance for sharing what's a very sensitive money story having to do with your upbringing and the poor habits that you learned from your father. Tell us more.
Tom Corley:
Yeah, so I actually have two stories that I'll try and be as concise as possible. So you know, we were rich and then we were poor. My father's business went under when I was aged nine, it's a complicated story, but it was really random bad luck. Anyway, from the age of nine until, I guess, I left the house, we were poor.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you had a big household, by the way.
Tom Corley:
We had 11 in our family, so we were constantly worried. Our home was in foreclosure, as least as far as I can remember, four times. So we were worried about being homeless. I remember I used to shovel snow and mow lawns, and I spent the whole year doing that, saved money, saved $200, because in the 8th grade I wanted to have a graduation party. I told all my friends who I wanted to come that I'm having a graduation party. I told them the date. A couple of weeks before the party date, I just my mother know, just to make sure it was okay, and she said, "We can't have a party, we don't have any money." I said, "Yeah, I know. I saved $200." Well, that night my father came into my room and he said, "You know what, I hate to do this to you, but we need the money, because I have bills that I have to pay or they'll shut off my electricity, our phones, or whatever." So I handed him the money.
Tom Corley:
The second story was when I was 23 and I had just been working for about a year. I was still living at home, but I was trying to get ready to leave home. So I saved about $5,000, I wanted to buy a car, and use whatever was left to put down on a rental, an apartment somewhere. Somebody in my family found out about it, and my father approached me a couple of days later and said, "You know, we need that $5,000 to pay our real estate taxes. They're in the process of foreclosing on our house again." So I had to give up that $5,000.
Tom Corley:
So what I learned from those two experiences, which were very emotional experiences to me, was, don't save, if you save, somebody will take it. I was young when I learned those lessons, so they stayed with me in my adult life. And it wasn't until really I did my Rich Habits research that I realized I had this horrific poor habit of not saving, and it was emotion based, which most habits are.
Bobbi Rebell:
What even started the idea of doing Rich Habits research?
Tom Corley:
When I took over my CPA firm here from my predecessor, I had a small business client in the auto body business, he had inherited the business from his father and over the course of 20 years he found himself with cashflow issues. He asked me, "What are your successful clients doing that I'm not doing?" Then he started crying because he couldn't make payroll that week, and basically he was going out of business.
Tom Corley:
So I started doing research, I couldn't find anything other than The Millionaire Next Door, that didn't help me really, it wasn't specific enough. So I said, "You know what? I'm going to do my own research." I interviewed 361 rich people and poor people, find out what the rich do and what the poor do, and I didn't know I was doing a habit study, I just was trying to uncover the truth, why are some people rich and why are some people poor? What I wanted to do, Bobbi, was find out what they did from the minute they put their feet on the floor in the morning to the minute they put their head on the pillow at night. So that's kind of what started me on that research.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did you talk to your dad about this at all?
Tom Corley:
No. My dad passed away in 2013, and he was always one of my biggest cheerleaders, but we never really saw eye to eye on a lot of things. I did everything a good son is supposed to do to help my father, and he loved me, you know, we just didn't have that kind of relationship.
Bobbi Rebell:
You never talked to him about your feelings when the money was taken from you after saving it?
Tom Corley:
No. I couldn't do that to him. I know, he was older, why burden him with that? I just felt, this is something that I don't ever want him to know about.
Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners, what is the takeaway from your story?
Tom Corley:
Well, the takeaway is this: I was able to turn things around, thanks to my Rich Habits research, I started saving, started putting money into my 401(k), and other things. Whether you are aware of it or not, you have certain good habits and bad habits, I call them rich habits and poor habits, that are the result of your upbringing. They primarily are from your parents. So if you are, like I was, not saving any money, and maybe have debt, credit card debt, there's a very good likelihood that that has something to do with your upbringing, and some habits that you forged in your childhood that stayed with you in your adult life. The good news is that I'm evidence you can change your habits, and not only am I evidence, I have 177 self-made millionaires that are proof that once you change your habits, you change your life.
Tom Corley:
So there's light at the end of the tunnel here for anyone, doesn't matter if you're poor or stuck in the middle class. You can change your habits, and it only takes two or three habits to change your life.
Bobbi Rebell:
So give us some habits.
Tom Corley:
So many people struggle with savings, right? If you really peel that onion, what's the reason why they just can't save? In many cases, especially in America, it's the keeping up with the Jones's mindset, it's, my friend bought a BMW, or leased a BMW, my other friend, or someone I know, or colleague just got a really nice house. So you supersize your life. I call it want spending. What drives want spending is envy. Envy is a negative emotion. What shuts down the want spending is turning the fuel off for your want spending, which is turning off your envy. How do you do that? You shift your mindset from negative to positive by, instead of being envious, be grateful for what you have.
Tom Corley:
What I do every day, every morning on my commute to work, is, I sit in my car as I'm driving and I say, "What are three things that went right yesterday with my life, that I'm grateful for?" I spend about 10 minutes thinking about it and going over it. It's an amazing thing, Bobbi, but it completely makes you positive. Gratitude is the gateway to positivity, it's a domino effect. So it's not just, "Oh, all of a sudden I have this gratitude, positive mental outlook." You have a completely changed mental outlook, everything, you start seeing the glass half full, you start seeing the good in life, the good in people. It's amazing when you start treating people as valuable instead of finding the flaws and the faults in them, they respond, and next thing you know you've got these powerful relationships with people that you didn't have before, all because of a shift in your mindset.
Bobbi Rebell:
Tom, for your everyday money tip, I think you're going to win the most original, and should I just wish you a happy birthday even though I don't even know when your birthday is, but I just want to say happy birthday.
Tom Corley:
Thank you, Bobbi, I appreciate that. It wasn't long ago, June 12th. The happy birthday call was one of the things that I uncovered that the self-made millionaires did. All you do is just call people, you don't tweet them, you don't Facebook them, no social media interaction here, you're calling them on the phone, just to wish them a happy birthday. The amazing thing is, when you call somebody on their birthday, guess what, you're going to probably be one of three or four phone calls that they receive. Here's the really cool thing, Bobbi, I found, because I've been tracking this since I uncovered it in 2007, 25% of the people that you call on your birthday will reciprocate, so it's called the reciprocal happy birthday call, that really takes your relationship off life support, takes it to another level.
Bobbi Rebell:
And especially, you mentioned, not social media and that kind of thing, taking it in a different medium really differentiates you.
Tom Corley:
Yeah, look, you want to stand out. If you're going to just be saying "happy birthday" on Facebook, you don't stand out, because the herd is doing that. You want to step outside the herd. What do people outside the herd do? They make happy birthday calls. It's going to emotionalize your relationship. Why is that important to making money? Because the people that really help you open doors, they might be on board of directors with you on nonprofits, they might be other successful people, well, these are the people you want to be making the happy birthday calls to, they're going to remember you, it's going to improve your relationship, strengthen it, and now you're going to start to develop friendships with these people.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Tell us more about what you're up to this summer and into fall, and where people can learn more about you, Tom.
Tom Corley:
Sure. So I've got a book, Rich Neighbor, Poor Neighbor, that I'm just about wrapping up. I'm going to be traveling to Vietnam for a couple of speaking engagements. I'm also going to start work on a book called The Other Side of Cancer. So I've got a few things in the pipeline this summer.
Bobbi Rebell:
What prompted that, Tom?
Tom Corley:
I'm the president of The Ashley Lauren Foundation. We help families who are struggling with pediatric cancer. So if you found out your child had cancer, we step in to help you financially, emotionally, all different sorts of things. We've bailed people out where they were almost homeless because cancer costs money to fight that fight. We've kept people in their homes just by paying their mortgage and paying their rent. So growing up poor, that means a lot to me, because we didn't really have anybody to help us, so I'm going to write a book and proceeds are going to go to The Ashley Lauren Foundation, and it's going to be an upbeat book about how some of the kids who survived cancer went on to become doctors, lawyers, and other things.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, well keep us posted on that, and I'll make sure to have you send me some links that we can put in the show notes, and people can learn more about it. Thank you so much, Tom.
Tom Corley:
Thank you, Bobbi, I appreciate it.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, can't thank Tom enough for sharing such a candid and raw story. I truly hope none of you have had to go through that kind of, not just financial devastation, but the toll that it takes on the relationship with your parents and how you view them and how you relate to them.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: as much as our parents set the foundation for our financial perspectives, if you get a bad deal, like Tom, you can move past it. In addition to Tom's books, there are other resources to check out. As our regulars know, I'm a big fan, for example, of Tony Robbins, who was kind enough to support my book, How To Be a Financial Grownup, by contributing the foreword. Tony is a big believer in owning your own situation. Whatever happened in the past with your parents, in your childhood, whatever, look forward, you're an adult, be a financial grownup, and move past anything your parents may have done that you feel hurt you financially. Almost all our parents are well intentioned and really do try their best. Maybe try to teach them what you learn places like here, and from Tom Horley or from Tony Robbins.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: let's talk about those birthday wishes. I recently met Ramit Sethi at a dinner party that he co-hosted with my friend, David [Bock 00:13:50], Episode 1, by the way, guys, if you want to go back. You guys may know Ramit as the author of the book, I Can Teach You To Be Rich. So I follow him now on social media. It was recently Ramit's birthday, and he said that when his friends have birthdays he reaches out, and he asks them to share birthday wisdom with him. So maybe that's something that we can all do when we reach out and call them, as Tom suggested.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for joining us. This was an emotional one, but that's okay, it was also honest. If you have not, please hit that subscribe button, and follow us on social media, on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and on Instagram @BobbiRebell1. Thanks to Tom Corley for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
Broadway Roulette founder and CEO Liz Durand Streisand literally gave birth to her child just as her business came to life. Having that dual focus on the baby and Broadway Roulette created the perspective and balance to keep push past challenges and grow them both.
Celebrity journalist turned CEO creating a new marketplace model to buy and sell event tickets. After a decade in the trenches of New York's entertainment scene, Liz saw the opportunity to pair expiring inventory to cultural events with consumers who were being bombarded by choice overload -- and Broadway Roulette was born. Broadway Roulette's key investors include Jesse Draper of Halogen Ventures and Randi Zuckerberg of Zuckerberg media. In 2018, Broadway Roulette was accepted to Morgan Stanley's Multicultural Innovation Lab, an accelerator focused on female and minority-led companies positioned to disrupt industries.
In Liz’s money story you will learn:
-About Liz’s background as an entertainment and lifestyle journalist journalist covering celebrities like the Kardashians
-How she and her co-founder husband came up with the idea for affordable tickets to ALL Broadway shows
-Why the business morphed from a hobby to a business
-How they launched the business at the same time he was making a career change and their child was born, and the challenges that came with it
-How being a busy mom impacted the business- as a positive
In Liz’s money lesson you will learn:
-The importance of choosing a life partner that really sees you as a true life partner
-How Liz breaks down big projects into smaller and more manageable tasks
In Liz’s every day money tip you will learn:
-Why Liz feels hiring a stylist is worth the money
-How it will save you money
-Specific ways to find the stylist that is right for you and your budget
In my take you will learn:
-How to get tickets to Broadway shows and other live events at deep discounts
-Ways to find free tickets to events and shows
Episode Links
Learn more about Broadway Roulette at Broadwayroulette.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/missdurand/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/broadwayroulette/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/missdurandnyc?lang=en
Twitter: https://twitter.com/BWayRoulette?lang=en
Here are some options for discount and free Broadway tickets:
http://www.playbill.com/article/broadway-rush-lottery-and-standing-room-only-policies-com-116003
https://www.nytix.com/Links/Broadway/lotteryschedule.html
Great article in the penny hoarder on getting free and discount theater tickets!
https://www.thepennyhoarder.com/smart-money/discount-theatre-tickets/
Seat fillers!
https://seatfillersandmore.com/
https://www.theaterextras.com/about.aspx
You could even go to the Oscars!!
https://www.refinery29.com/2018/01/189571/oscars-seat-filler-academy-awards-interview
Transcription
Liz Durand:
One day I was at the box office in labor, but didn't know it, buying tickets at the box office. Two days later I was back at the box office with no baby, buying tickets again. And the box office manager, there's two that are women, the one who was at the window that moment looked at me and was like, what just happened? Where is your baby?
Bobbi Rebell:
Your listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of how to be a financial grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own we got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, it is summer time to get out and do some fun things, oh but that budget. Well, this show is for you wherever you live. I hope this inspires you to go to live theater or go to a concert or whatever you enjoy. Just get out because it can be affordable in part because there are more and more disruptors in the entertainment business, like our guest who heads up Broadway Roulette. Welcome everyone. Thanks for joining us. If you have not already, please subscribe to the podcast, we try to keep it to about 15 minutes to fit easily into your schedule. If you have more time, you can binge on, more episodes, especially if you're in a long car ride, going somewhere to visit friends. Maybe you're visiting some friends in New York. Our guests, Liz Durand Streisand knows all about that. Before she and her husband became parents, they had a lot of friends staying with them in their New York City apartment because they had something you don't hear about very often here in New York City, a spare bedroom. So their friends would come and they would want to see shows, but the big Broadway shows, the ones that they had heard of, we're always either sold out or ridiculously expensive. Fast forward, Liz and her husband came up with a way to disrupt the old Broadway discount model. Let's spend a money story with Broadway Roulette's Liz Durand Streisand.
Bobbi Rebell:
Liz Durand Streisand you're a financial grownup welcome to the podcast.
Liz Durand:
Thank you for having me, so excited to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm excited to learn more about Broadway Roulette. What is Broadway Roulette?
Liz Durand:
Broadway Roulette, it's basically price Priceline for Broadway with only two levels of bids. So you go onto the site and tell us when you want to go and how many tickets you're looking for and set some basic criteria about the type of show you want to see or don't want to see. And then the morning of the show you get an email that's like, surprise this is the show you're seeing and all the tickets are a flat price, so you don't have to like negotiate with your friends or look for discounts are stand in lines.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. We're going to talk more about that in a minute, but I want to talk about your money story because it ties into Broadway roulette. This happens all the time I feel, people are going through major life changes in their personal life. They're having babies, they're getting married, they're moving. All these things are happening and that is exactly when the greatest business opportunity ever just drops in their lap. Tell us your money story.
Liz Durand:
So I liked to be very orderly and very type A, which made me a good New Yorker for many years and I wanted to do things in the order that made sense and I saved 10% of my paycheck every month and did all that good stuff. I had a career as a journalist. I've been doing it for about a decade. I was very settled. It was very steady.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you're being modest, you were a very top entertainment journalist.
Liz Durand:
Yeah I was probably like the most prolific entertainment journalist in New York City for a decade. I wrote for every major publication that anyone has read on their phone, on the subway, on the way to work, hoping no one is seeing the story they're reading about the Kardashians. That was me.
Bobbi Rebell:
But they loved it.
Liz Durand:
But They loved to, and I actually really enjoyed it. And I would married. And then I finally was able to have a baby, which was very exciting, but at the same time that that happened HIS business that we had started kind of, not like as a joke, but as a hobby. It was sort of a side project just to see if anything would happen. And you know, two days after I gave birth, we landed this major contract with our first Broadway show and it was time to decide like go big or go home. He was actually in a very cushy family office job and it was about six weeks after I had the baby that he decided that would be a great time for him to leave that job and go basically be what I call a financial, a cowboy, to strike out on his own.
Bobbi Rebell:
And also in that time period this financing comes through.
Liz Durand:
Yeah, it was right around the same time. We had been sort of casually talking to friends and family about, hey, would you want to give us money for this weird thing we built in our living room? And that none of us know really that much about. And it turned out that the answer was yes. We met with two, they were technically venture firms but they were friends and they both said yes within a few hours of meeting us and that kind of, the tide turned and all the checks came in and all of a sudden it was just time to go for it. And you know, the timing was terrible in the sense that it's like I was nursing every three hours. I had just had a baby, my husband had just left his job, but the timing was also the timing. That's when it was. So it was the perfect timing because that was the only time if I didn't say yes to that money then, they weren't going to come back in six months and say, "Oh, can I give you money now?" They're giving the money now. So now is the time.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So what happened next?
Liz Durand:
So what happened next is I briefly lost my mind. I was working around the clock literally, plus not sleeping because I was taking care of the baby. So I was running out to buy Broadway tickets in the two hour pocket-
Bobbi Rebell:
So you were, just to be clear, you're literally, it looks like you've got this massive company going on. You, Liz are going out and literally procuring these tickets.
Liz Durand:
Yes. So like one day at the box office and I was in labor but didn't know it buying tickets at the box office. Two days later I was back at the box office with no baby buying tickets again and the box office manager, there's two that are women in Broadway and the one who was at the window that moment was a woman and she looked at me and was like, "What just happened? Where, where is your baby?"
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my God.
Liz Durand:
But I think that's just ... on one hand I was very out of sorts because there's just all the drama that you just had a baby. But on the other hand was actually really nice for me to have something that was like the anchor and a goal that was unrelated to becoming a mother. That was, I have this business that is growing that needs my attention and the act of like leaving my apartment and running around in 95 degree weather and buying tickets at the theaters and begging people to hold them for me, actually was something that was very familiar at that point. And it gave me a sense of stability during a time that felt like it could have been just like spiraling out of control. In a weird way it was actually nice to do something over and over that wasn't that enjoyable, but that I knew how to do.
Bobbi Rebell:
When you look back, what is your takeaway for the listeners? If they experience something like that? And a lot of people do. Not that situation, but the convergence of different parts of their lives at the same time.
Liz Durand:
I think there's two things. I think it's important that you pick a life partner who truly sees you as a partner. Whether you want to pursue business or you just want to, do something else with your time. You want to work on charity, you want to take care of your kids. Having someone who's going to back you and they're going to back you, not because they necessarily agree with everything you want to do, but because they agree that you should be allowed to do whatever you want to do and you should use the corded is the number one thing. The second thing is just breaking big projects down into small manageable tasks. Like when you're sitting there and you're trying to nurse and the baby's not latching on and you haven't slept in like eight hours. It feels like that's never going to end and your life is never, this is going to be your future forever and I think it's important to break down that bigger thing into a smaller task like all I have to do right now is try for 10 more minutes and then I'm going to put the baby down and I'm going to go buy these Broadway tickets and when I get back I'll try again.
Liz Durand:
And I'm going to give myself permission right now to not think that because this one moment didn't work that the rest of my life isn't going to work.
Bobbi Rebell:
You also have an everyday money tip that I had not really thought of. I've resisted doing this, but you made me think about it very differently and I'm really excited to kind of consider this.
Liz Durand:
My money is if you are a woman with limited time, hire a stylist immediately. Unless you love shopping as an actual recreational pastime and it's something you do socially or you find it relaxing, cut it out. You don't need to be doing it. Hire someone the money you pay that person to accrue all the clothes for you, will be paid out in spades because they will number one, find things that are $25 that look like $200 or $2000. And number two, all that time that you would have spent trying things on at the store feeling bad about yourself, you can instead spend on something that is more valuable to you, like an extra hour at the park with your child or sending three extra emails that wouldn't have gotten done because you just wasted an hour at Bloomingdale's staring at 300 pairs of shoes and bought nothing.
Bobbi Rebell:
I know my hesitation is, oh, it feels so frivolous to spend money paying someone to shop for me, and then what if they make me buy things are too expensive. I don't want to spend that much money. I feel like there's a lot of reasons people resist that kind of thing.
Liz Durand:
Well you need to find one who you're comfortable with who you can say to them, "I don't like this, I'm not buying it." But if you find the right one, it saves you so much time and so much money because you get an entire wardrobe that's like $25 dresses and then you have one handbag that goes with all those dresses that was a splurge, and now everything looks like it was a splurge. And I just think the emotional toll and the energy toll of shopping if you don't enjoy it, is so high. There's something to be said for outsourcing things so that you have time to work on things that add value. Like if you're not standing at Bloomingdale's, being miserable, finding things you don't like, that time can be spent on finding new clients. That time can be spent on something that generates revenue, that pays for the stylists, plus stylists are frankly not that expensive. They can shop in an hour, what it takes you, takes me four hours to find a dress that I don't really like, but I've finally given up because my friend's wedding is tomorrow and I need something. That's my shopping experience. My stylist in one hour, she's got me a wardrobe for the next six months.
Bobbi Rebell:
So where can people find a stylist?
Liz Durand:
I think Instagram is a great place to go. As much as I have a love hate relationship with social media, I think if you find someone who's page you like who has style that looks like yours, that's a great place to go and find someone. It's also great to ask your friends because any of your friends that have really good style like that, I'd bet ne of them is using a stylist. A lot of people [inaudible 00:10:47] tell you unless you ask. It's like a dirty little secret.
Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa. Alright, let's talk a little bit more about Broadway Roulette. One of the many things that impresses me is that if I go to one of the traditional ticket booths to buy a discount ticket, the shows that I see on the board are often the shows that are having a lot of trouble filling seats. When I go to Broadway Roulette, the shows are the ones we all want those tickets for. How does that happen?
Liz Durand:
Well, to be fully transparent, every Broadway show, except for the top like five average, have about 25% of their seats empty on any given night. There's very, very few shows that are actually sold out all the time consistently. The ones on the board in Times Square, which I affectionately call the wall of shame. It doesn't mean that they're terrible shows and it doesn't mean that you don't want to see it or that they have tons of empty etas, it means that the people that are behind that show have done the math and figured out that they'd rather have these seats sell at whatever price they're offering it there than have them go empty. There's other shows that decide they'd rather just not do that and not have their name up there and not have the seats all sell. So it is actually more of a management question then like a quality of the show question, but the way that our system works, we work directly with the Broadway shows. One of our big sales pitches to the show partners is, it's not an advertised discount or customers don't know what they're buying and so it protects your brand in a way that's very unique compared to like a big slash through it that says 80% off.
Liz Durand:
And because our brand partners to us as a company that is sort of based on the concept of rising tide lifts all boats versus race to the bottom, we're able to broker better seats at cheaper rates than you can find on public discount. And the second part of that is that we make a conscious effort to include, we literally send people to every single show on Broadway regularly. And that's a marketing expense for us. And the reason we do that is that we're not primarily a discounter where a discovery platform. So there's tickets to Hamilton and Dear Evan Hansen and Hello Dolly and all the shows that you won't be able to see if you go to the TKTS booth, though I do think there's a time and place for that and no shade to TKTS. If you're not beholden to a particular show, this is a great way to see everything. And our customers do use our service over and over and over and we eliminate every show that you've ever seen through us every time you spin. So you can go 30 times and see 30 different shows.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which is also a great business model because it promotes loyalty.
Liz Durand:
Yes it encourages repeat business. The thing I like about that part of the model especially, I mean really and truly is let's say we have a customer that we send to Miss Saigon that show's closed now, but let's say we send them to Miss Saigon. They have a great experience. That then prompts them to buy another ticket through Broadway Roulette. We then send them to, let's say, Phantom. We've now basically the experience that Miss Saigon has helped sell a ticket for Phantom. So our argument is that all the shows that work with us are helping each other versus competing for the consumer business.
Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. Liz, where can people learn more about Broadway Roulette and about you?
Liz Durand:
Well, you can learn about Broadway Roulette on our site, it's just broadwayroulette.com. It's simple fun and easy, which is sort of our sales pitch. And the best place to follow me is just my Instagram account, which is just Miss Durand.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love that.
Liz Durand:
Lot's of cute pictures, if don't want to see cute pictures of the child don't follow my Instagram.
Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Well thank you so much.
Liz Durand:
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
So Liz's story resonates on so many levels, but let's start with the one that's the most fun, which is getting tickets for what you want for less money. Financial Grownup tip number one, just because you don't have a big budget doesn't mean you can't see big shows. First of all, Broadway Roulette, as we discussed, is a game changer. But I'm also going to give you some other options, all of which have pros and cons. Obviously with Broadway Roulette you can see the best shows for less, but you do give up some control. Personally, I think that for as little as 49 bucks a ticket, that is part of the fun, but okay, maybe you're just in town for one night and you want to see a very specific show. You want another option. Most Broadway and off Broadway shows sell rush tickets and they also have lotteries.
Bobbi Rebell:
Some are online and some you do have to go in person. They can run for as little as $10 as is the case of Hamilton. Most are around 40 bucks, but yes, you can see Hamilton for as little as 10 bucks. You've got to be really lucky though, but it's there. Broadway shows also have standing room tickets. They are often under 30 bucks. Also look for student and active military discounts. Links that will tell you all the details for each show are going to be in the show notes. Financial Grownup tip number two, better than discount is free. Free entertainment this summer, there's also free theater in many cities. For example, right here in New York City where I live, we have free Shakespeare in the park. So you can wait in line, got to get up early, but you can also enter the online lottery. So if you've got to be at work, it's okay. Just remember to do this. I've always been able to get tickets at least once per summer. You may have to try a bunch of times, but you know what? Just set a reminder on your phone to enter each day and you're good to go wherever you live there are opportunities.
Bobbi Rebell:
One option, for example, get social. Follow the venue on social media of what you want to see. Sometimes if a theater isn't full, they will actually offer free or heavily discounted tickets to followers. You can also see things for free if you're willing to volunteer at a theater, maybe ushering or doing various other jobs to support the production. One thing I've yet to do but I hear about and I'm so curious about is being a seat filler. I'll leave links in the show notes, but basically you attend show tapings or live musicals or plays so they don't have empty seats and the stigma that goes with them.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. Thank you all for spending your time with us. It means a lot as do the social media DM's and shares that we've been getting. Please be in touch. I am at Bobbi Rebell on Twitter. And Bobbyrebell1 on Instagram. And if you're coming to New York, try Broadway Roulette. You can book up to three months in advance and if you follow them on social, they do freebie giveaways. Just saying. Thanks Liz for sharing the story of the birth of your business and your baby and for helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.
Newlywed Hilary Hendershott CFP® found herself with a limited cash flow after launching her own financial advisory firm, and started using her husband’s credit cards to make up the difference. What she considered to be a money secret she was keeping from her new husband, she discovered actually wasn’t, but was the catalyst that brought them together to discuss their finances as a married unit.
In Hilary’s money story you will learn:
-How as newlyweds, Hilary and her husband set up their finances
-The unseen pitfall that caught them both off guard
-Why Hilary considered spending money on her husband’s credit cards a “secret”
-What happened when she revealed her actions
In Hilary’s money lesson you will learn:
-Specifically what Hilary would do now in the same situation
-The exact questions you should be asking if your financial partners- romantic or otherwise
-Ways to motivate yourself to be financially open even in uncomfortable situations
In Hilary’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-Why she is against buying service plans from auto dealerships
-The tactics they use to get you to buy the plans and how to flag them
-How to find alternative options to keeping you car properly maintained
-How Hilary got burned at auto dealerships
In my take you will learn:
-The importance of discussing cashflow, not just revenue
-Why taking ownership of your actions is the key to finding solutions
-The biggest danger of not talking about credit card bills with your partner
-How identity theft can be more of a threat if multiple people use the same credit card account
EPISODE LINKS
Learn more about Hilary Hendershott and the Profit Boss® Radio Podcast
https://www.hilaryhendershott.com
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/hilarythecfp
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/profitbossradio
Transcription
Hilary Hendersh:
I don't know if I'd found one of his credit cards laying around, or it was a credit card that I was using, or using intermittently. Well anyway, I started using this credit card to live off of. And this went on for months, and every time I pulled it out I felt like I was cheating or lying or stealing or something, but I was doing this thing that I didn't have agreement to do.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so if you spend your significant other's money and you don't actively tell them that you are spending that money is that cheating? I'll let you guys be the judge.
Bobbi Rebell:
Quick welcome to our newest listeners and welcome back to everyone else. Hit that subscribe button while you are there. We do three short episodes a week to fit your schedule. Each episode delivers a money story from a high achiever, a lesson in takeaway so you can apply it to your own life, and an every day money tip to help you save and have more money. If you've got more than about 15 minutes feel free to binge, get a few lessons in a row.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, now to our guest, Hilary Hendershott. In addition to being the real deal, a certified financial planner who has been named one of Investopedia's Top 100 Financial Advisors she also hosts the Profit Boss Radio podcast, which I highly recommend. I'm going to be a guest on a future episode likely in the fall. She is also relatively newlywed but regrets keeping a secret from her new husband, or did she? Here is Hilary Hendershott.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Hilary Hendershott you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Hilary Hendersh:
Thank you so much.
Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations, you are one of Investopedia's Top 100 Financial Advisors, quiet an honor.
Hilary Hendersh:
Isn't that cool? Yeah, I'm honored to be ranked.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you are a certified financial planner, which we know is serious business, and of course your hit podcast Profit Boss Radio podcast, which I am huge fan of. So, welcome.
Hilary Hendersh:
Thank you so much, I'm really happy to be a financial grownup today.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you brought with you a great story and a very interesting one with a little bit of a plot twist. You were apparently using your husband's credit cards without his knowledge, but there's a lot more of the story, tell us.
Hilary Hendersh:
So for many years I worked for my father's financial planning for about 15 years. I went out on my own in 2014, so I took my clients and I formed a registered investment advisory firm. So here I am, I'm a bootstrapping entrepreneur and my husband was very generous, he said, "Of course, don't pay yourself for a while." And I think any of you who've started a business you understand you just really feel like all that dry kindling needs to go back onto fan the flames of the fire that is your new business. So I was not drawing an income from my business.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you were relatively newlywed, correct?
Hilary Hendersh:
We got married in 2013, yes so we were newlyweds. My husband had his own banking system, I had my own banking system we didn't join accounts, so I had separate checking account from him. So, I didn't think about the fact that we had set this scenario up where there was no money coming into the account that I was spending from. And so, I get to the end like I didn't want to go below $1,000 in this account, but there's no money coming in. I'm like, "What am I going to do now?" Well I happen to ... I don't know if I'd found one of his credit cards laying around or it was a credit card that I was using or using intermittently. Well anyway, I started using this credit card to live off of. And this went on for months, and every time I pulled it out I felt like I was cheating, or lying, or stealing, or something, but I was doing this thing that I didn't have agreement to do. And finally I was like, "I have to come clean honey, I've been spending on your credit card to live."
Hilary Hendersh:
And he said, "I know."
Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, but you didn't tell him and you thought he didn't know. I was about to ask you, wait who's paying these bills? Doesn't he look at the bills? So the people have auto pay.
Hilary Hendersh:
Well he was.
Bobbi Rebell:
People have auto pay.
Hilary Hendersh:
No, he paid the bills and I just thought maybe he wasn't paying attention. I don't know that he combs the transactions at a detailed level. It wasn't like the portal was accounting for this is Hilary's card versus this is your card. I don't know what I thought, I was just in denial. I think I just probably wishing and hoping that my surreptitious little activities were not being found out by him. But of course, we're married it's all joint assets anyway, but it was just the fact that I hadn't asked him or gotten approval, it wasn't what we had planned. It wasn't what we said would happen. And I said to him, "How in the world were we designed? How did you think I was going to get money? How was money ever going to come into my accounts?"
Hilary Hendersh:
And he said something about me taking profit distributions from my business.
Hilary Hendersh:
And I said, "But I wasn't taking money out of the business." He and I just had very different expectations of what was happening from a cashflow management perspective, but it was very cool that he gave me a very soft landing, because when I did say, "I've been using your credit card to live."
Hilary Hendersh:
And he said, "I know."
Bobbi Rebell:
Awe that's so nice. So then how did it evolve? What system did you put in place?
Hilary Hendersh:
Well now I'm on payroll.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right, but I mean did you just say, "Well okay, we'll continue this"? Or did you just merge your accounts then? Or did it just continue where you were just still using his credit card but you guys were open about it?
Hilary Hendersh:
I think a little bit of both. I think he like wrote me a check for $20,000 or something so I had money in my checking account. And then we did create a joint account so I changed my bank over to his bank, and now I'm on payroll from the business. So, our personal finances evolved and grew, but we really should have been spending from the same bank account before that. But, yeah so we just kind of dealt with it step-by-step.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from that? What is their takeaway?
Hilary Hendersh:
I think it's really common at the beginning of starting a business for someone's spouse to financially support them. And if you're going to do that you just want to be clear where's the pool of funds that you're actually spending from? And you want to be I think in communication, how much can I spend and have us still be on track for our plan? What is your expectation here? I think the problem was that Robert and I just didn't fully talk through the plan. What saved me was my need to be ... I really am fundamentally an honest person. I'm like, "Uh I need to come clean here." But being open and transparent communication with your partner, your spouse is your financial partner. And so, being able to talk about that really helps.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it sounds like he is really supportive of the business.
Hilary Hendersh:
Oh tremendously. I could not have done it without him. Yeah, absolutely.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, I want to talk about your money tip because it is something that so many people don't even think twice about, they just assume it's the best thing to do, but maybe not always.
Hilary Hendersh:
Yeah, so when you buy a car from a dealership they give you this schedule of appointments that you're supposed to be on for maintenance and tune-ups, that's a major profit center for those dealerships, those maintenance garages, or fix it places. So, I just went on Yelp and I found a four and a half star local mechanic and we take our cars there. I don't think I've had more than about $100 in maintenance costs over the last seven to eight years. One time I could literally hear the brake discs grinding on each other and I brought the car in thinking I was going to spend ... I had mentally budgeted like $1,000. I was like, "Maybe it'll be like $700 but I don't want to be disappointed, so I'll mentally budget $1,000."
Hilary Hendersh:
The guy said, "I'm going to retool it, it costs $49." It's like I can't spend money at this place if I try to, so that's my tip.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what do you think goes on that people are always feeling like they have to go the dealerships? And full disclosure, when we bought our car we did pre-pay for a maintenance plan. And so, we are locked in because we've paid for it, to our dealer.
Hilary Hendersh:
It's just a problem of information and education. A lot of people in my world, I see come into my office with things inside their investment portfolio that they don't understand, or aren't good for them, or have hidden fees. And under the hood of the car is the same thing. I myself, I know nothing about vehicles. And so, you want to trust dealer just sold you your car. You've been sitting with them all Saturday afternoon and they say, "This is your maintenance schedule."
Hilary Hendersh:
And you don't want to have to think, "Well I'm being taken advantage of or there's a way I can get it for a quarter of the cost." But you know these are huge profit centers for the dealerships and in my experience is I feel that I've been personally taken advantage of because I didn't know what to say or what to ask for.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well what happened at the dealer that you got burned?
Hilary Hendersh:
I think getting really high ticket maintenance bills. Having to do things like, "Well, we removed the rotor," or whatever.
Hilary Hendersh:
And then you go, "Okay can I see the part?" Because somebody tells you that in order to be a critical consumer you need to ask for your old parts.
Hilary Hendersh:
And they go, "Well, it's already at the dump," or whatever. Just signs of lack of credibility. And it's been so long since I've been to a dealership that I definitely am not going to remember the details, but just the fact of my maintenance costs went from several thousand dollars a year to under $100.
Bobbi Rebell:
Great advice. All right, before I let you go, tell me a little more about Profit Boss Radio and your mission, and a little bit about the show, and where people can find you.
Hilary Hendersh:
Yes, so Profit Boss Radio is your wealth mastermind. So, I take all the best of what I've learned over 18 years as a certified financial planner. I do solo shows on technical topics like, how to debunk economic doomsayers. You know those articles that always say, "The stock market's going to fall. The stock market's a huge bubble." I pull those articles apart and talk through every line item of them so that you understand how to think about and what to do about them when you read them. We've had finance experts such as David Bach and Dan Ariely on the show. I interview everyday entrepreneurs and even some really incredible everyday women, so not media experts but women who have done just remarkable things in their own financial life. I interviewed a single mom, she was left with no money and three kids, she had literally no income and now she owns a major clothing studio and online business living in the house of her dreams having paid cash for all of her kid's college. She was just an incredible interview. So lots of different kinds of topics. The show is designed to empower you financially to take control of your money.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well I am a huge fan of the podcast and of you. Where can people find you and follow you?
Hilary Hendersh:
If you have room in your podcast lineup check out Profit Boss Radio wherever you find your podcast online. You can find me HilaryHendershott.com and that is Hilary with one l and Hendershott with two t's.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, this was amazing.
Hilary Hendersh:
Thank you so much for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay everyone here is my take. The first year's of any relationship that merges finances romantic or not is always challenging. Financial Grownup Tip #1, Hilary did talk to her new husband about the fact that she would not have income in the early stages of her business, but then she didn't follow up with exactly how the cashflow would work. So it was an incomplete discussion. Don't assume that your partner is making the leap to the next step. While Hilary takes ownership of her actions and feels she should have told him she was spending on his account, and she should have, why didn't he point out the charges to her? Because here's the really alarming thing about this story, given that he did not ask her or anyone about the charges that were appearing on his bill, how did he know that they were not unauthorized charges from strangers, and that his credit card and/or identity had not been compromised?
Bobbi Rebell:
So Financial Grownup Tip #2, if more than one person in your family is using a credit card or even a debit card you need to really be communicating. So taking it beyond the spouse example, maybe to build credit you put your teenage child on a credit card, or some people may give a caregiver a debit card to pay for expenses for a child. Make sure that person is giving you receipts or at the very least communicating what their buying. You may assume that because for example, they shop at Walmart every charge from Walmart is legit and is theirs, but a smart thief might make charges at places you already shop thus avoiding detection. Just think about it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for spending some time with us. Feel free to binge a little and check out some other episodes. Learn more about Financial Grownup at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast and do follow us on social media. I am on Twitter @BobbiRebell and on Instagram at Bobbi Rebell 1.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hilary's relationship with her hubby is still going strong as is her growing financial advisory business. Be sure to check out Profit Boss Radio for more great insights from Hilary, and thank you to my friend for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK Media production.
Jessi Fearon lives her Real Life on a Budget- but getting her husband in line when he saw a great sale on Fireworks was still a challenge. Plus her tips on how she got her book buying obsession under control!
In Jessi’s money story you will learn:
-Why her husband blew the budget on fireworks!
-How he tried to avoid telling her about the splurge
-How she reacted when she found out he spent more on fireworks than on their wedding
-What her husband’s buddies had to say about the situation
-What else the Fearon’s could have bought with the money he spent on the fireworks
-The upside of the incident: they had their first big money talk as a couple
-The mindset that allowed Jessi to forgive her husband, and give him a roadmap for handing future temptations
In Jessi’s money lesson you will learn:
-Tools to put in play if you are a saver married to a spender
-How to better understand and manage the mindset of an unintentional spender
-Specific ways Jessi and her husband set and execute financial priorities
-Exactly how much money Jessi now gives her husband when he goes shopping for fireworks
In Jessi’s every day money tip you will learn:
-How Jessi spent over $250 in one year on books on Amazon.com
-How she was tempted to spend more than she realized
-How Jessi rediscovered the library
In my take you will learn:
-Why approaching well-intentioned overspenders in a non-judgemental way can be effective in helping them to adjust their behavour
-Specific pitfalls that trigger us into spending more than we planned, and how to counteract them
-How to understand the mindset of consumers who fall into the trap of spending more than they planned because of well-designed targeted sales tactics
-The benefits of having intentional discussions with anyone with whom you have shared finances.
Episode Links:
Learn more about Jessi’s blog jessifearon.com
Get Jessi’s new free five-day money challenge
Follow Jessi!
Instagram @jessifearon
Twitter @Jessifearon
Facebook @JessiFearon
Transcription
Jessi Fearon:
They were having to buy two, get two free. And so he just kept buying stuff, and he said, “I didn't even pay attention when I checked out how much it was”. They looked at the receipt, and his buddy was like, “dude, you seriously spent $700 on fireworks”.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Happy 4th of July, my friends, we have a special just for Independence Day money story. Thanks to our friend Jessi Fearon from Real Life on a Budget. Hopefully you are relaxing and not at work today. If you're joining us for the first time, welcome. Glad to have our returning folks as well, and thank you all for the DMs and the social sharing that's been going on. It's been so fun watching the show continue to gain traction, and we have you guys to thank. So, thank you. Hopefully, like I said, you're getting some time off this holiday week. For mom, Jessi Fearon, who is also an accountant, by the way. She celebrates every 4th of July with her husband, her family, and her friends in Georgia. And her husband is in her words, a total pyro. He loves his fireworks. So much so that he blew the budget, literally, which is not going to fly when your wife runs a blog called Real Life on a Budget. Here is Jessi Fearon.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jessi Fearon, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Jessi Fearon:
Well, thank you Bobbi, I appreciate you having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I am a huge fan of your blog, Real Life on a Budget, because you get very real. So, congratulations on the success of all that.
Jessi Fearon:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you manage it down in Georgia with three kids, which is pretty cool.
Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Yes. My sweet three children that can drive me crazy sometimes, but are such a blessing at the same time.
Bobbi Rebell:
And not to be forgotten, your husband, who ... This is ... Okay, little bit of trivia here, so your wedding, for fans of your blog, they already know this. Your wedding cost all of $500.
Jessi Fearon:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
But, your husband spent even more, more than ... Your husband spent more than your entire wedding budget on fireworks. So this is an episode that we're going to drop in honor of July 4th. You have the ultimate July 4th money story. Go for it, Jessi.
Jessi Fearon:
Okay, well, a real quick little just background. It was our first year as a married couple. So we decided that we were going to celebrate the 4th of July with a good old American barbecue. And at the time our state, Georgia. You couldn't buy fireworks in the state of Georgia. You had to go outside the state. And so my husband and his buddies, they load up the truck, and they take the two hour trek over to Alabama. They buy fireworks, and they come back. And I'll never forget it. Me and my girlfriends were watching the truck pull in, and it literally looked like the Clampetts coming down the road. There were so many fireworks in the bed of this truck, it was insane. I mean, I even commented to one of the friends, I was like, "oh my goodness, it looks like they just bought fireworks enough for town hall to shoot off tonight". And so as I'm walking up to the truck, my husband's friends had this look on their face.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, oh. Like this guilty look?
Jessi Fearon:
Yeah. It's like they didn't want to talk to me, they didn't wanna look at me. It was almost like they were afraid they were gonna witness a murder or something, like they just didn't want to talk to me. And I was like, okay. And so I kind of made a joke to one of them. I said, "good mighty, how much did y'all spend"? And the one friend goes, "oh no, it wasn't us". "It was not y'all, it was your husband". What? I look over at my husband, I'm like, "honey, how much did you spend"? And so he starts going to this big deal about how they had this great sale, that it was like, buy two, get two free, and blah blah blah. And I'm like, "okay honey, how much did you spend"? And he was like, "oh, we'll talk about it later". So in my mind I'm thinking, okay, he spent a lot of money. He spent probably like $200. I'm thinking that's an insane amount of money. How could you spent $200 on fireworks, right?
Bobbi Rebell:
So you're guessing he splurged and spent about $200.
Jessi Fearon:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
What happens next?
Jessi Fearon:
I cornered my husband and I finally got him to tell me how much she spent. But he spent $702.48 on fireworks. And I literally couldn't believe it. I thought he was joking. I kept looking at him like, what? No you did not. That's our rent money. How could you spend $700 on fireworks? And I was so mad, and so upset, I didn't scream and yell, but it was one of those things where you could just tell that I was really upset about this. I couldn't talk to anybody anymore. I was like, how could you spend $700 on fireworks?
Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and to put that in context too, you do disclose some of your budgeting and your expenses online, but give us a high level, what would $700 buy in the Fearon household in a typical month?
Jessi Fearon:
That would have bought groceries for about three months at that time, because it was just the two of us. So that would have bought groceries for about three months. That would have paid the one car payment that we had for two months. It would have definitely covered utilities probably for about six months, at the time. And it was in fact our rent money. So it was quite the expense. It definitely was not planned. I really did not think my husband was going to spend that much money. To say that my husband's a pyro is a little bit of an understatement. He likes to blow stuff up.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what happened next? You have this talk.
Jessi Fearon:
Yes. So the next morning, I remember I was still so mad. I could not believe it. And the thing is, that you can't return fireworks. It's a nonrefundable sale. So, it's not like we could take back any fireworks, because I mean, again, my husband bought so many fireworks, we couldn't even shoot them all off that one night. We had to shoot them off on Labor Day and then on New Year's Day, because there were so many still left. I remember we were cleaning up from the party and we were putting all the fireworks that were left over in the garage. I remember, I was so, so mad, and I kept thinking like, I just wanna scream, I just want to yell. But then the more and more I thought about it, I thought, okay, if I just scream and yell we're not going to get anywhere in this conversation. So why don't I just kind of calm down and take my emotions out of it, and talk to him about this, because I really need to know why he would spend $700. I was raised in a very frugal household, and you don't spend $700 on fireworks. Only people with yachts spend $700 on fireworks. Why would you do this? And so I remember I just kind of turned around to my husband and I was like, "this was a lot of fireworks". And he goes, "it kind of is, isn't it"? "I went a little overboard, didn't I"? And I was like, "yeah honey, you went a little overboard". "So you want to tell me about this because this was a lot of money you spent". This is the first time that I really got to see how, because I'm a saver, my husband's a spender. And so this is first time I got to see how kind of a spender, for him anyways, rationalized his purchase. And it was because of that really awesome sale they were having. They were having to buy two, get two free. And so he just kept buying stuff. And he said, "I didn't even pay attention when I checked out how much it was". He said, it wasn't until we were halfway home that one of his buddies had asked how much did you spend? And they looked at the receipt, and his buddy was like, "dude, you seriously spent $700 on fireworks". And my husband couldn't believe it. He didn't even think it was going to be that much money because he thought he was saving a whole bunch of money. So for us this was the first real money conversation that we actually had as a married couple. We had been married for almost a year. Our anniversary is July 24th. And so we had been married for almost a year at this point, and this is the first time that we really sat down and talked about money, because even though we knew one day we wanted to have kids, or one day we wanted to buy a house, we had no plans for any of that. And so, this situation kind of pushed us into actually having to sit down and have a conversation about money, and we started realizing, okay, if we don't come together and be a team on this, there's going to be more and more $700 expenses on random stuff that isn't important, because he certainly wasn't the only one spending money. He just happened to spend a lot of money at one time, versus where, our day to day lives, we were spending little increments of money here and there, without thinking about it. And I think that it really for us kind of showed us that it compounded on itself to this one big $700 purchase where we went into it with no plan to attack at all. So it was quite the interesting thing. And I forgave my husband, obviously, we've been married now for nine years. So I forgave him, and it's kind of become our epic story for our family, about my husband's $700 expense.
Bobbi Rebell:
So looking back, I guess it's about eight years later. What is the lesson for our listeners?
Jessi Fearon:
One, if you are married to a spender, always remember to give a grace, because a lot of times spenders don't recognize that they're spending so much money, because they believe that they're saving money because of the sale. And a lot times spenders are really good at finding the bargains. They really are great at that. And just like spenders always get upset with the saver, when they want to save a bunch of money and not spend it. And so for us it came down to finding that balancing act between being a saver and a spender, and having the honest money conversation where we decided together, okay, how much are we going to spend, how much are we going to save? What is the best of both worlds? And it came down to us writing down what our financial goals were, which was saving for a house, paying off debt, and saving an emergency fund. And all of that. So we were able to put those into the budget, but then we were also able to put in spending money for my husband to go and spend money because he still buys fireworks every 4th of July. And he still spends more than probably what most people would. But now it's a planned thing, and he just gets to carry cash. He has to leave the debit card at home, so he can't go crazy in the firework store anymore.
Bobbi Rebell:
So how much cash is he getting this year in 2018?
Jessi Fearon:
Like I said, it's still more than normal, what most people would spend, but it's $150 that he gets to buy whatever fireworks he wants. So then he can go blow them up all that he wants to.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about your money tip, because you've gone over budget with things as well. Especially one of your pleasures, which is reading.
Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Oh my goodness. Yes. And like I said, my husband's definitely not the only one that's at fault. I had spent well over $250 in one year on Amazon buying books. And I kind of didn't even realize it because I think Prime makes it so easy. And so does Kindle, where your just buying books, and you see the deals, and you're like, oh my gosh, I wanted to read that book. So let me get that one. Oh, Amazon suggests this book. Okay. I like that one.
Bobbi Rebell:
But you were actually reading the books?
Jessi Fearon:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Because sometimes people buy and they don't read.
Jessi Fearon:
No, I was definitely reading them, because I love, love to read. I read on average of about four book a month, sometimes more, sometimes less. But I just love to read. And here I was just buying all these books and reading, and reading, and getting excited about it. And then when I finally, I usually do, my husband and I will sit down every year and we kind of do a big annual spending review, where we literally look at how much we spent in every single category. And what we spent it on. And when I kinda sat down and realized just how much I had spent in one year on books, I was like, oh. This is my fireworks story, isn't it? I'm like, okay. we got to do something, and so I rediscovered the library. And that has kept me in check this past year so far. So it's been wonderful. I've been able to feed my guilty pleasure without a completely wrecking our budget this time.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. All right. Tell us more about what you are up to. I know you've got some new courses on tap.
Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Right now I have a free five day money challenge. All about things that you can do for the next five days. It's only about 10 minutes, 10 minutes or less a day that you can do right now. These steps that will help you to be able to start managing your money better. It will get you started on the right path to taking control over your money, and to stop letting money control you, and start putting you at the helm of your finances.
Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. And where can people find out more about you and your blog?
Jessi Fearon:
They can find me at jessifearon.com, and on Instagram, twitter, and Facebook at Jesse Fearon. I'm constantly on Instagram trying to just share all the little snippets of our real life and all of its imperfect details. Everything for my husband working his side hustle here recently to buy a new boat motor, and our [inaudible 00:12:03] vacation that we go on for the cheap.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much and have a great 4th of July.
Jessi Fearon:
Well, thank you Bobbi. You too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay everyone, one thing that Jessi said really resonated when she talked about how a saver, like herself, can better understand a spender, and it has to do with the mindset of the spenders. Financial grownup tip number one. Jessi says, if you're married or in a relationship to a spender, always remember, give them grace. Many spenders are well intentioned, and go off track thinking in that moment when they're making the buying decision, that they're saving money. Seeing a two for one sale sets off a feeling of excitement. So many of us have fallen into buying more of an item than we intended because of the way the seller has priced it. They're smart, they know what they're doing. It sometimes is a better deal. In fact, never once did Jessi criticize the fact that the per firework price of what her husband bought wasn't a deal. He may have gotten good value. He just spent too much. She gets it. And I love her empathy and understanding. By figuring out the mindset of her husband, she was able to steer him on a healthier path and give him the tools. Okay, and also she gave him restricted cash on a budget this year, to resist the next great deal, rather than just screaming at him that he blew the budget.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Jessi also talks about the fact that this was the very first time the two of them had really sat down and intentionally talked about money. They didn't have kids yet, but they were newlyweds and they had no plan. So if you're in a relationship that involves shared financial resources, maybe have a little chat. If you are not already, please hit that subscribe button, and if you are listening on Apple Podcast or iTunes, please rate the podcast and leave a review. They really matter. Also, if you like the show, just tell a friend to check us out as well. And thanks to Jessi for giving us such a great Independence Day story. Let's all go out and celebrate with our friends and family. Maybe take Jessi's advice, and read a good book. Libraries are great. Also though, it's also nice to buy books on occasion, because we want to support our authors and value what they contribute as well. Authors need to make a living. So, it's a balance. Be sure to check out Real Life on a Budget and Jessi's great free course. I will leave links to both in the show notes. And thank you Jessi for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
Author Cristina Alger wrote her first book, The Darlings as a side hustle while working 120 hours a week as a lawyer. When she ditched the day job to write full time, Cristina also walked away from the pricey perks. But the author of The Bankers Wife, quickly found herself with the time to create better benefits for herself and her family.
Cristina Alger is a lifelong New Yorker. A graduate of Harvard College and NYU Law School, she worked as a financial analyst and a corporate attorney before becoming a writer. Her third novel, THE BANKER'S WIFE, will be published on July 3 by Penguin Random House. She lives in New York with her husband and two children.
In Cristina’s money story you will learn:
-How and why she came to work in finance after college even though she had been an English major and says she had no financial skills
-How and why she wrote the Darlings while working 120 hours a week as a corporate lawyer, often on the road
-How she got the book published
-How she had to adjust her budget and spending lifestyle when she left her corporate job to write fulltime
-Specific examples of the changes she made to lower her spending, but make up for it with time
In Cristina’s money lesson you will learn:
-How at her corporate job Cristina had to use money to make up for the lack of time she had
-How as a writer, Cristina now has time to make up for the lack of steady paycheck
-The specific current changes Cristina makes in her every day life to improve the quality of her family time and her overall lifestyle
In Cristina’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-How Cristina and her husband have disrupted the common advice to hire babysitters and go out in order to really have a date night as parents of young children
-Exactly what they do to protect the time, and to focus on each other, not distractions around their home
-Ideas for how you can create time in your life for special moments - without spending more money than you would like.
-Other benefits from at-home date nights, including avoiding all the stress and to-do list of setting up the going-out date night!
About how Cristina researched her book “The Bankers Wife”
-She learned about Geneva as a child visiting her uncle
-As an ex-pat she was fascinated by the glamorous and mysterious world of swiss banking and offshore banking
-She is fascinated by the Panama Papers and used them for ideas. They were leaked while she was writing the book in the summer of 2016,
-Another case that inspired her was that of whistelblower Bradley Birkenfeld, who exposed how UBS helped ultra-wealthy Americans commit billions in tax fraud.
-Birkenfeld went to prison for 30 months, but when he got out he got $104 million from the IRS as a whistleblowers fee!
In my take you will learn:
-How to find the time to do what you love, even if you feel like you are too busy
-How to determine if in fact you should not try to find the time- because ultimately it’s not that important to you, or not realistic during this phase of your life.
-Ways to come to terms with your actual priorities not being what you think they SHOULD be.
-The difference between side hustles for enjoyment, and side hustles for pay.
-Ways to approach and re-think the pressure from friends and family to have a formal ‘date night’ when you really do have other financial needs- or the planning of the date night is creating stress.
EPISODE LINKS:
Learn more about Cristina Alger and her other books at her website:
CristinaAlger.com where you can also buy her book.
Follow Cristina!
Facebook: @AuthorCristinaAlger
Instagram: cristina.alger
Twitter: CristinaAlger
Here are some great articles about the Panama Papers:
International Consortium of Investigative Journalists
https://www.icij.org/investigations/panama-papers/
NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/06/us/panama-papers.html
The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/news/series/panama-papers
Wired: https://www.wired.com/2016/04/reporters-pulled-off-panama-papers-biggest-leak-whistleblower-history/
Here is more about Bradley Birkenfeld.
https://lucifersbanker.com!
You can read more about him in his book: https://lucifersbanker.com/books/lucifers-banker/overview/
Transcription
Cristina Alger:
There was a salad place in basement of my loft apartment, we used to go everyday for lunch and you'd spend 30 dollars on a salad and kind of not think anything of it, and a lot of times we'd expense it to the firm and you can't do that anymore.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with my, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grown Up, but you know what, being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together, I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grown up, a lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, the glam life of an entrepreneur, you can work from the beach, but you also need to watch out for those 30 dollar a day salads because that expense account has sailed away. Welcome everyone, so glad you are here, we have a great guest today in novelist Cristina Alger, whose latest book the financial thriller, The Bankers Wife, kept me up all weekend, I could not put it down until the very last page and it was a good ending. The book is fiction but also very realistic, taking us into the secretive world of Swiss banking and chock full of villains, if you can figure out who exactly are the villains. You can really tell that in Cristina's background in banking and law as well as growing up in a family that worked in finance, gave her insights into this actually really crazy world that we haven't seen before in a novel, at least not that I'm aware of.
Bobbi Rebell:
This book takes you on quite the adventure. Alger wrote her first book, The Darlings, as a side hustle while working 120 hours a week, when she ditched the day job though to write full time Cristina also walked away from those pricey perks and she had to learn to be quite the financial grown up, you're going to love this story. Here is Cristina Alger. Hey Cristina Alger, you're a financial grown up, welcome to the podcast.
Cristina Alger:
Thank you, thank you for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much for taking over my weekend, I spent the weekend reading your new book, I got a sneak peak at it, The Bankers Wife. We're going to talk more about it after your money story, but just high level, give us a little sneak peak?
Cristina Alger:
Well the bankers wife is a thriller and it's set sort of in Europe and New York and it's about a woman who is an ex pat, an American ex pat living in Geneva, and her husband is a private banker and he goes missing on a private plane, and she goes in search of him. It's really kind of a fun fast paced thriller that kind of takes you through the world of off shore banking.
Bobbi Rebell:
So we love that, a money thriller, and to get to the point where you are giving us this wonderful novel, and by the way it's your third novel, you had to leave your corporate job and become your own boss and that involved some big money decisions of your own. Nothing quite as dramatic as what goes on in The Bankers Wife, trust me, this book goes there, but lets hear about your life and your money story?
Cristina Alger:
Yeah, when I graduated in college, I was an English major, I had no actual marketable skills and I went to work at Goldman Sachs.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, let me just correct that, you must have had some skills to get a job at Goldman Sachs, but go on.
Cristina Alger:
Well I had no financial skills and I grew up in a family where both my mom and my father worked in finance, I had never taken economics, I had never taken accounting, my dad passed away when I was a senior in college.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm sorry.
Cristina Alger:
And I sort of realized that I had to start paying my own bills and so I decided to take the highest paying job I could get, which was a financial analyst at Goldman Sachs and they were one of the few banks that were hiring people out of undergrad who did not have a finance background, so I took that job and I sort of stuck with that through my 20's. I went to law school and when I came out of ... I became a corporate lawyer because I had spent these two years at Goldman Sachs learning how to be a financial analyst. So I spent about 10 years doing finance in sort of various roles and I wrote The Darlings really as a passion project, I wrote it while I was working as a lawyer and ...
Bobbi Rebell:
So let me just ... so it was a side hustle, was it intended to make money or just ... it was just a project?
Cristina Alger:
No, it was just a project, I never thought it would get published ... actually even intended for it to see the light of day. I sent it to a writer friend of mine who asked, so are you still writing, are you still working on sort of creative projects, and so I sent this to her and she sent it to her agent, and her agent called me and said I really like this, do you want to publish it. I thought oh wow, I don't know if I have the time to do that, so I sort of hemmed and hawed about it ...
Bobbi Rebell:
And the economics, I mean I don't know what the advance was but you're in a job that you've said you're in for the money and now I mean it's a first time novel, it might pay well but probably not the same?
Cristina Alger:
No, and it's funny, being a lawyer and being a novelist are complete opposites. I mean being a lawyer is such a consistent steady job, you know you're really paid salary, it's a salary based job, the bonuses are not huge, and it's just a very consistent job. You sort of stay there, you keep your head down, you work hard and you get paid very well and you have great benefits and it's a very conservative kind of risk averse job. Obviously being a writer is the exact opposite, you get paid in kind of these lump sums, you never know when you're going to get paid next, there are no benefits, so ... it's a huge transition.
Bobbi Rebell:
So how did you make that transition?
Cristina Alger:
So we took the book to auction, it actually did really well at auction and we sold it for a fairly large advance, but it was a big leap for me. It was really stressful, it was hard in the beginning to figure out how to be my own boss and how to kind of manage my budget given that I wasn't getting a consistent salary.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you do, what was it like?
Cristina Alger:
I set up a budget that would carry me through the next year and I really stuck to it. In fact, every month I was sort of coming under my budget because I was so scared that I would run out of money.
Bobbi Rebell:
So give us an example of something maybe that you would have done in your lawyer life financially and you weren't doing anymore as a novelist, year one?
Cristina Alger:
Okay, yeah. Well the first thing and the most obvious thing that I actually ... and this is the change that I will never go back, I stopped doing take out. I just stopped, I now cook lunch and dinner, I bring my lunch to work if I'm going somewhere. I mean New York is sort of dangerous because there's so many quick lunch options and dinner options around but it's expensive, it adds up. So there was this salad place in the basement of my loft apartment, we used to go every day for lunch and you'd spend 30 dollars on a salad and kind of not think anything of it. A lot of times we'd expense it to the firm and you can't do that anymore, so I had to get much more organized about doing meal planning and grocery shopping and ... but I also had more time, so I actually really enjoy cooking and that's something that my husband and I do a lot together and my kids and I now do it together. So it's been actually a really positive change, but we save a lot of money as a family by not really eating out very much.
Cristina Alger:
We almost never do take out, so that's one thing. Then another is that I don't take cabs anywhere, I was always in a rush when I was at my law firm and I was always traveling around the city. I literally can't remember the last time I took a cab, I walk everywhere, I take the subway, my kids love the bus, that's a huge cost savings. I also realized that I don't have to dry clean my clothes the way I did when I was a lawyer, when I was a lawyer I was wearing a suit every day and I would honestly throw things in the dry cleaning bin because I was just too lazy to think about it and ...
Bobbi Rebell:
And busy, you were working 120 hours a week.
Cristina Alger:
I know. Then you know, I was a lot more conscious about going out with friends at night and the money I was spending on entertainment and that kind of thing.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson then for our listeners, what's their take away from this?
Cristina Alger:
One of the thing that I realize is when you work these very intense corporate jobs, you're spending money to create time, and that goes away when you cease to have a job that takes over your whole life. So a lot of the things that I was spending money on I realized didn't actually bring me any joy, they were just ... I was spending money to save time. So I was paying for a housekeeper, I was paying for transportation as I said, I was paying for take out, and all these things really what I was buying was time because I was so busy that I couldn't ... I didn't have the time to go grocery shopping and sit out on a Sunday and plan out what I was going to eat for the whole week and when you get back some of that time and you reclaim that time, you can actually save a lot of money because you're not making decisions kind of on the fly based on what's the most convenient thing to do right then.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your everyday money tip because it's kind of along the same theme and it's really about date night with your husband.
Cristina Alger:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Because now you're married, when The Darlings came along you were single, and when The Bankers Wife comes along now you are married.
Cristina Alger:
I am, I am, we have started doing date night at home and we cook a really nice elaborate dinner and we light candles, we set the table, and my husband brings me flowers, a date at home and it's really nice. Sometimes we'll watch a show or a movie on the couch and we'll drink wine and sort of do whatever we would do at a restaurant, but at home. We save money because it's just infinitely cheaper to eat at home but we also save on babysitting and sort of the mental gymnastics of getting a babysitter, so ... we just find it so much easier to be like okay, Thursday night we're doing it. It makes a big difference when you set the table and you use real silver wear and you're not sort of shoving food in your mouth because you have to put your kids down in the next 30 minutes.
Cristina Alger:
So we kind of make a production of it and it's nice, it's really romantic and my husband actually has now started to cook with me, which is fun. It's a fun different kind of date night so I highly recommend it.
Bobbi Rebell:
So lets talk about The Bankers Wife because I told you this beforehand, I chose to read this rather than watch The Handmaids Tale, which is basically huge, if anyone's every watched The Handmaids Tale, I could not put this book down. I read it in a day and a half, there's a lot of things that happen that at least I didn't see coming at all but make total sense in hindsight, you're like of course, but they don't make sense. Tell us about how you even came up with this idea, did you know about this world, did you know about things like this without getting to into the details, were you witness to this?
Cristina Alger:
I did, you know, I did because ... well I sort of have in two ways. One is the book is set in Geneva and my uncle actually lives in Geneva and so as a child we would spent a lot of time visiting him there and I always thought the ex pat world there was just so glamorous and it's sort of mysterious and ... I just thought it would always be a fabulous sort of setting for a novel. I became really fascinated with the Panama Papers Case, which is the data leak that came out of a Panamanian law firm that did a lot of business with these off shore banks. In the summer of 2016 when I was writing this book the Panama papers had just leaked out and they were all over the news and I'm sort of a nerdy financial news junky, and I just couldn't get enough of this case.
Cristina Alger:
I thought it was so fascinating that someone from inside this law firm had leaked all this really confidential information and it occurred to me that there was this whole world of banking that exists completely outside any sort of regulatory body and it's ... for the ultra rich and it's all operated in kind of numbered bank accounts, and no one knows who owns the numbered bank accounts and it's super shady. It amazed me that there's trillions of dollars in this sort of off shore banking system that exists and all the different people that can be involved, there are drug cartels that store their money, there's Presidents, there are all kinds of people. There was another case I did a lot of research on and it's this man named Bradley Burkenfeld who is an American private banker at UBS, United Bank of Switzerland, and he was a whistleblower.
Cristina Alger:
He ended up ... this is such a crazy story. He knew what he was doing, you know, that he was helping a lot of people evade taxes by having Americans bank at UBS and he knew what he was doing was illegal and he sort of saw the writing on the wall and he ended up becoming a whistleblower for the IRS, and he gave over a lot of confidential information from inside the bank to the DOJ and the IRS. They ended up prosecuting him anyway, so he went to jail.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, really?
Cristina Alger:
Yes, for aiding and embedding, tax evasion, and then he walks out of prison and the IRS awards him I think 114 million dollars because ...
Bobbi Rebell:
The finders fee.
Cristina Alger:
Whistleblower, yes. So it's a totally insane story.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well I think you have another best seller on your hands, so congratulations.
Cristina Alger:
Thank you so much, that's so kind.
Bobbi Rebell:
And where can people find out more about you?
Cristina Alger:
Well you can always go to my website, so it's Cristinaalger.com, it's Cristinaalger.com, and also on Penguin Random House they have pages on all the different authors and the books available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, so ...
Bobbi Rebell:
And to follow you on all your social channels.
Cristina Alger:
Yes, definitely, I'm all over the place.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you Cristina.
Cristina Alger:
No, thank you, it was such a pleasure.
Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm still kind of trying to process how Cristina found the time to write while working 120 hours a week, but therein lies the takeaway, financial grown up tip number 1, if you want to do something you love you will find the time because you won't be able to stop yourself. Notice I didn't say it will necessarily pay, separate topics, whether that project will pay, but Cristina wrote her first book as a way to relax and cope with the stress of her job. As it happens, the book was also really good and she was able to turn it into a profitable project, but that has nothing to do with the fact that she was finding the time while working 120 hours a week. So the next time you feel you don't have time for a project, just think about Cristina and finding those pockets of time in that crazy week. If it feels like it's a chore and you're struggling, maybe it's okay to decide not to do it and do other things or maybe you don't time for anything else, that's okay.
Bobbi Rebell:
So rather than beat yourself up and feel bad about it, just say in this phase of my life I'm not going to do it because I don't have the time and it's not giving me enough joy that I'm going to find a way to make the time, it's okay. Financial grown up tip number 2, we get so many messages these days that we need to build in that date night with our significant other and commit money so that it sticks. When my husband and I had our son, we were told pre-schedule a baby sitter every Saturday night so we were forced to have a date night because things come up otherwise, this way we put money on it, we were going. I have to tell you, paying someone money to sit in our house watching TV while our son slept so we could go to a restaurant, maybe spend money on a taxi to get there, to spend more money for the meal then.
Bobbi Rebell:
It doesn't always work for everyone and sometimes the idea that you're spending all this money puts a lot of pressure on you. Also maybe the money just isn't there for that, maybe your priority is saving for something else, maybe it's paying down debt, maybe that's where your priority is right now and you can make ... and it was great that Cristina pointed this out, you can make a date night at home. Yes, it is absolutely easier to blow off if you haven't made this commitment, but Cristina's example really was telling. The little things are important, her husbands bringing her flowers, they really set the table, that makes a difference. I'm going to try it, maybe you guys can too.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you are enjoying the promos and want one for yourself or your business, follow me on social media and share them, I'm going to be choosing a winner soon and it could be you to get a promo made for you or your business. I am on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram and BobbiRebell1 and on Facebook my author page is @BobbiRebell. Also, love it when you guys DM me and share your thoughts on the show and also suggest guests that you would like to see on Financial Grown Up. Everyone, go out and get Cristina Alger's new book, The Bankers Wife, it is the perfect summer read and thank you Cristina for sharing all your money saving tips and advice and experiences and helping us all get one step closer to being financial grown ups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
