Special guest co-host Manisha Thakor of the True WELLth podcast joins Bobbi to share ways to be not just wealthy but well-thy in 2019. 

At 29 years old Tanya Van Court thought she had more than a million dollars on hand to change the world and live the life of her dreams. Until it vanished in a few hours. 

Tanya's money story:

Tanya Van Court:
I was 29 years old, it was in the first tech boom where all of the Silicon Valley companies had stock that was just rising uncontrollably. I happened to be one of the first 200 employees at a company in Silicon Valley that was doing extraordinarily well.

Bobbi Rebell:
What company?

Tanya Van Court:
The company was Covac Communications. Before any of the telephone companies or cable companies were offering high-speed data I had a great job, a meaningful job, and I had a lot of stock that went along with that job.

Tanya Van Court:
I got all this stock in Covac, and some of the stock I couldn't cash out yet, but a lot of the stock I could cash out. I could have sold that stock and went and diversified my portfolio and bought mutual funds, or invested it in many, many stocks, as opposed to having all of my eggs sitting in one proverbial basket. But I didn't, because it was literally the first stock I had ever known or owned-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, let's just back it up, so you were given, as part of your compensation, shares in this company. Did it go public? Where was this stock? Explain exactly what you were given, and how it was valued, and did you have opportunities to sell it?

Tanya Van Court:
Yes, I had opportunities to sell the stock, many opportunities. The company had gone public, and so I had the opportunity to sell the stock when the company went public, I had the opportunity ... not exactly when it went public, because we had a certain window. But that window had passed, and so I had many opportunities to sell the stock, but I had no idea that I should sell the stock.

Tanya Van Court:
The stock kept going up, and I thought, "Wow, this is great. The stock just doubled in the past six months. I should just hold onto it, and I guess it will double again."

Bobbi Rebell:
At its peak what was the value of this stock, and how old were you at that time?

Tanya Van Court:
I was 29, and the value of the stock at its peak was about 1.2 million dollars.

Bobbi Rebell:
At that time how did you feel?

Tanya Van Court:
You know, I was so excited, because since I came from a household of two parents who were elementary school educators, all I ever wanted to do was make a difference in the world. I knew that having that 1.2 million dollars in my late 20s was going to enable me to make different choices and different life decisions to help people and to give back instead of just working in corporate America and doing things that were kind of interesting to me, but weren't impactful to other people. I felt free, Bobbi. I felt really free and empowered.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're 29 years old, you have stock that on paper is worth 1.2 million dollars. What happened then?

Tanya Van Court:
The big Dotcom bust happened. Literally in hours stock just started to tank for company, after company, after company. I watched the stock literally go from being in the teens, each share was trading in the teens, to trading for less than a dollar. When I say less than a dollar it went from the teens to like .50 cents in the course of a few hours. Every bit of that 1.2 million was wiped away in a matter of hours.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow!

Tanya Van Court:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you feel then?

Tanya Van Court:
Then I felt stupid, I felt deflated, I felt panicked, depressed, it was almost as if you had 1.2 million dollars sitting in your living room, and you just left the front door to your house open and walked out and went to the park, right?

Tanya Van Court:
It was, like, wait a minute. I had been living this life and treating this money so casually, as if it would always be there.

Bobbi Rebell:
As you say, it was the dotcom bust. This was happening to everyone?

Tanya Van Court:
It was happening to everyone, and it's interesting, because while I suffered a tremendous loss with that stock that I could've diversified, what I still had was ... I still had a home that I owned, I had bought a condo, and I still had that. What I found with many of my colleagues who experienced that same bust, is that they had actually leveraged their stock to buy lots of other things, so they bought cars, and they bought multiple houses.

Tanya Van Court:
Because they had borrowed against that stock, once the crash happened, they then had to pay back the money that they had borrowed by going and selling off all of their assets, including the assets that they had come to the company with.

Tanya Van Court:
If they came to the company with a big million-dollar home in Silicon Valley that was passed down to them from their parent, or that they had worked really hard in a previous company to be able to buy, now all of a sudden, they not only lost all of their stock, they lost every other asset that they had, because they had to payback loans that they had made against their stock.

Tanya’s money lesson:

Oh my gosh. Diversify, diversify, diversify. Don't ever put all of your money into one basket. I don't care if that basket is a real estate basket, and you have found a hot, booming real estate market that's working really well for you, and so you're, like, "Let me just buy it."

More apartments here in X place, or more houses in X place, don't do that. Diversify your money. If you have found that your golden goose is a stock that is doing really well, don't do that. Diversify your money. You really have to weigh and measure your risk, and think about the worst case scenarios. If that particular company, if something happens to that company, if something happens to that area of town that you're investing in, and every asset you have goes under water, what happens to your entire portfolio?

Tanya's everyday money tip:

My everyday money tip is actually a money tip that kind of goes back to my time in college. I would always watch people who ... I don't happen to drink, but I would watch people who would do progressives. Where they went from one bar to another, or one restaurant to another, and progressively partied from one place to the next. Like, the party would follow them. Like, a group of people would go and they'd hang out in one place, and they'd do that for 20 minutes, and then they'd go and hang out at another place.

I thought, "Wouldn't that be fun if we did that just with our friends, and did it in order to swap and exchange stuff that we no longer needed at our respective homes." Look, we all look in our homes and we go, "There are 10 things here that I don't use anymore, that I don't need." If you happen to have kids there may be things that your kids don't use anymore, or your kids don't need. If you happen to be a sports fan there may be equipment that you don't use anymore. "Hey, I'm not golfing as much as I used to anymore."

There are things in all of our homes that we don't want or we don't need, and so it's a great way of getting together with five or six friends, scheduling it on a Saturday, and going to each other's houses where you put everything that you don't want in your living room, and it becomes a virtual shopping spree.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love, first of all, that it's social, and I love, also, it's always delicate, because when you want to gift to somebody something that maybe you don't need anymore it's an awkward thing to give them something that you don't want. Because it's kind of like, "Oh, you're giving me your leftovers." But if you just put it there and they can just decide to take it, then it takes away that sort of negativity and makes it a positive thing.

Tanya Van Court:
It absolutely does. I think it makes it a positive thing for everyone, like, you're super happy to get rid of it, but they're super happy to get it.

Financial Grownup tip #1:

One things Tanya mentioned that stood out is that, while she lost money that she had on paper, I know it still hurts a lot, others had leveraged against their stockings and lost so much more. In addition to her advice to diversify, we also want to be very careful when borrowing against actual assets. Do not over leverage.

Financial Grownup tip #2:

This holiday season take it a step further than what Tanya was talking about. Think carefully about the physical stuff that you are buying for other people, not just children. Unwanted gifts are a total waste of money. There are so many new ways that technology is allowing us to give differently. Apps like Goalsetter are great, especially for kids that have too much stuff. But when you want to send a physical gift, and sometimes this is even for business purposes, there are new services, like, GiftNow. That's my personal new favorite that I'm obsessed with.

Basically, the way that one works is that instead of a boring gift certificate you virtually send someone a specific gift from a retailer to their email, so you don't need their physical address, you don't have to send them an email asking where should I send this, who will receive it, blah, blah, blah. It opens in a virtual gift box, and they can select their size, so you don't have to be guessing. They can change the color, if you don't know what color they want. They can even exchange it all before it gets delivered, so you don't have the whole hassle of the return and all that stuff.

I just used it for my friends' baby's one year birthday. It was so great to not have to carry a gift to the party, not worrying about it getting lost in the pile, and to know that my friend could swap it out without me even knowing it, not worrying if she would hurt my feelings, if she didn't love the fabulous dress that I got her daughter.

Then again, you can never have too many little frilly little girl dresses, right? I'm sure it was a huge hit.

EPISODE LINKS

Check out Tanya's company GoalSetter here!

Tanya Van Court is on Shark Tank!

Follow Tanya!

Instagram: @tvancourt

Linked In: @Tanya Van Court

Twitter: @tvancourt

Follow Goalsetter!

Instagram: @goalsetterco

Twitter: @goalsetterco

Facebook: @goalsetterco

Learn more about GiftNow

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Ambition Redefined author Kathryn Sollmann’s childhood took an unexpected financial detour when her father had a career setback. But becoming a financial grownup at a young age gave her the foundation to redefine ambition. 

In Kathryn's money story you will learn:

-Why she started working at a young age

-How her financially stressful childhood prepared her for success

-The way she wished her parents talked about money when she was growing up

In Kathryn’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to have honest conversations about money with a significant other

-Why Kathryn suggests women should always have a way to make money

-Her tips on how to balance work and family life

In Kathryn's everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to categorize your savings account

-Ways prioritize saving money while staying out of debt

In My Take you will learn:

-Financial grownups don't judge, every financial plan is unique to each family or individual but making smart decisions are what make plans successful

-Family time and work time don't have to be separate, hear what Bobbi and Kathryn have to say about blending a schedule in order to balance it

EPISODE LINKS

Read Kathryn's new book Ambition Redefined here

Check out Kathryn's website for more information here

Follow Kathryn!

Instagram: @KathrynSollmann

Twitter: @KathrynSollmann

Linked In: @KathrynSollmann

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
The financial situation at home got so tenuous that my father, a couple of times, took my little part-time afterschool paychecks to pay a few bills while he was waiting for some things to come in and that had just a profound impact on me.

BOBBI REBELL:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, financial grownup friends. I like to joke that it is never too young to grow up financially, but I'm rethinking that a bit, and that is because my guest, Ambition Redefined author, Kathryn Sollman, got a rude awakening when her comfortable upper middle class suburban life was interrupted by the harsh financial reality of a change in her family's financial situation. More on that in just a minute.

BOBBI REBELL:
First, a quick welcome to everyone. If you are new, so glad you found us. Please hit the subscribe button so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and go into custom settings and set to auto download. While you are there, it will make our day if you leave a quick review. Now to Kathryn Sollman. Love her book, Ambition Redefined, but I will warn you, she makes him controversial arguments. And while I do see her point, and she does a lot of research, there's a lot of data to backup everything she says, there is a lot of discussion about her perspective. And stay to the end. We will be giving away a signed copy of Ambition Redefined. Here is Kathryn Sollman.

BOBBI REBELL:
Kathryn Sollman, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Oh, thanks for having me. It's great to be here.

BOBBI REBELL:
I love your new book. Congratulations on it. It is Ambition Redefined: Why The Corner Office Doesn't Work For Every Woman And What To Do Instead. It's like you read my mind, Kathryn.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Yeah. We're in an era of women's empowerment, which is great, and we need to have a woman president, and we need to have more women running corporations, but that's very small percentage of women overall who want those kinds of jobs.

BOBBI REBELL:
Absolutely, and I do want to just mention that this is very important for men as well because men are huge stakeholders in this issue because they have so much at stake when it comes to not only whether they're women partners, their sisters, their mothers, their daughters work, but also the income that they generate because that can be a big factor when things don't go as planned, which brings us to your money story, which does have to do with your father and what happened and the impact on the rest of the family and the role that your mother had to play then in the family finances. Tell us your money story, Kathryn.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
I grew up in a very affluent community. My father was working in a big executive job in New York City. When I was in middle school, he lost that big job and he never fully recovered professionally. This then sent my mother, who was a former teacher, back to work and she hadn't worked in more than 20 years.

BOBBI REBELL:
Wow.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
So she had some fits and starts, but over time was able to reinvent herself to be an English as a second language teacher, but that wasn't really enough to keep the household going. So there was a tremendous amount of financial stress in the household. The financial situation at home got so tenuous that my father, a couple of times, took my little part-time afterschool paychecks to pay a few bills while he was waiting for some things to come in, and that had just a profound impact on me.

BOBBI REBELL:
What was your job?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
It was a company called the Danbury Mint. I guess I was a like an administrative assistant.

BOBBI REBELL:
And what kind of conversations did you have with your father or with your parents at this time?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
You know, it was a difficult environment because I felt like everything was always on pins and needles. I was young and it's not like I could have given my father advice. I was just kind of a victim.

BOBBI REBELL:
Well, what about your mother? How did she feel? Did you talk to her? Did she have regrets about having left the workforce? At the time, as you say, it was a different time. Did she feel she even had options not to leave the workforce?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
She felt a little powerless and she said that to me. She said, "Make sure that you always work because money is power." Not only in a relationship can money be power, but she said it's important that you have that power to support yourself and your family. I remember when she got one of her first big paychecks, she was very excited about being back to work and she bought herself a watch. I remember my father was very, very upset that she had bought that watch for herself because he felt like he should have bought it for her.

BOBBI REBELL:
What is the takeaway from your story for our listeners?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
You know, women really need to be sure that they're not delegating their financial security to a partner because even when things seem like they're going so well, you've got to realize that no job has a lifetime guarantee. The second thing is that women should always find a way to work in a flexible way, which in some circles, is very controversial. Women live longer than men. They typically earn and save less and it's very difficult to return to the workforce and recoup lost earnings when you've been out of the workforce for many years and women are out for an average of 12 years.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
If you feel like you have a moral obligation to be with your children 24/7, you've got to realize that if you ran out of money late in life, you would then, in fact, burden those very same children, which is basically what happened to me when my father took a couple of my paychecks. Fast forward, that's the same man who is not prepared for retirement and still alive at 89. At some point, he is going to run out of money and it's going to be my problem.

BOBBI REBELL:
All right, let's move on to the everyday money tip, which is also very important for women to have a sense of the contribution that they are making because, in some cases, many cases, they are not the primary breadwinner, but it is important to really understand that there is a significant contribution being made financially and you have a way to do that.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
What I always say is look at how much money you're bringing in each year and attach it to something. It could be two family vacations, it could be 50 percent or 100 percent of a college tuition bill, a child's braces, whatever it is, so that you can then say, "Okay, well I covered that. My money went to that." If you just put it all in the pot, it seems like your money is going to nothing or nothing significant.

BOBBI REBELL:
Right.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
And that's the way to make yourself feel better but also to, as my mother was saying, to exert a little power into the relationship and say, "I'm contributing too. This isn't just your ballgame."

BOBBI REBELL:
Which is very important because it makes it a lot more tangible. Let's talk about Ambition Redefined. I love this book. It's so relatable and there's a lot of truths in this that are not always spoken about, one of which is the fact that just because you were working flexible hours and sometimes part time hours does not mean you are earning less money or that you should settle for less money if you have the earning power in the market to earn more money.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Yeah, it's absolutely true. A large percentage of freelancers earn more money than they were making in their full time jobs within a year. I was just speaking to a woman who had a full-time job with absolutely no flexibility. She needed more flexibility. She left and she found another job where she is working three days a week and she's working closer to home. She got rid of the commute and she's making 60 percent more than she was in the full-time job.

BOBBI REBELL:
So it's a question of finding the right job that values your skills. You also talk about something called a Type E, and this is important because I know a lot of our listeners are very interested in having their own business and being entrepreneurs. But it's important to make sure that's the right fit for you.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
That's right. When you're thinking about flexibility, what could be more flexible than being your own boss? So I find that lots of women think about, have these Walter Mitty dreams of starting this business or that business. The fact is that you have to be the entrepreneurial profile and the entrepreneurial profile is working 24/7 because there's nobody else to make this business work other than you, especially in the early stages before you might hire people. The other thing is that you have to wear so many hats.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
So if you have a dream to be a marketing consultant and you really love marketing, well, you might love that marketing discipline, but you probably or you may not love sales. Any job, any business that you develop, you've got to be a salesperson. And lots of people thinking about having their own business will tell me, "Well, I don't like sales. I never wanted to be a salesperson."

BOBBI REBELL:
Everything is sales though, right?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Everything is sales. You've got to be selling yourself, your product, your service constantly. So you can't say you don't like sales and you can't say that you don't like financial stuff and numbers because you've got to work the numbers for your business. You've got to figure out how you're going to fund your business, even if it's a very small business.

BOBBI REBELL:
Tell us more about where people can find out more information about you, your book, and all your social channels so we can follow you.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
You can read more about my book on my website, kathrynsollman.com, and Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram can all be found under @kathrynsollman.

BOBBI REBELL:
Wonderful. Thank you, Kathryn.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Thank you. So great to be with you.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey everyone. As I mentioned at the top, Katherine is very tough in her stance on the fact that women must always earn money. And that comes from personal experience, but still, financial grownup tip number one, no judging. Kathryn makes her point very well. She did her homework. It's a really well researched book and I live by most of her advice already in my own life, but part of being a financial grownup is understanding that there is a human element to money and an emotional element to the decisions that we make and all the decisions that go around our financial lives.

BOBBI REBELL:
Everyone faces different situations and there may be many seasons in one's life when a regular paycheck or earning power is just not as important as other things. Don't get me wrong, we must all be vigilant about financial security, but let's not judge if someone makes a decision that, from the outside, doesn't look good. Sometimes, by the way, it may look like somebody's choosing not to work or not to earn money, but in fact, they may be trying and just not have been that successful. Be a friend.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial gonna tip number two. One idea in Kathryn's book that I loved was not to worry so much about work life balance, but to focus on blending. Maybe don't put pressure on yourself to turn off communication with work the minute you get home. It may work for some people, but it's okay if you give her child a bath, for example, and then you take a work call, and then you do story time. And maybe your kids stays up a little later than you wanted or whatever. Do what works for you to maintain your career path.

BOBBI REBELL:
And by the way, it is more than okay for your kids to know that you have other responsibilities and that paying attention to those other responsibilities may help pay, literally, for the fun things that you do together like your next vacation. Put them on your team, include them. Let them know that their good behavior and understanding when you have to do some work, even when it's supposed to be their time, helps the whole family.

BOBBI REBELL:
Katherine very generously sent along a signed copy of her book, Ambition Redefined: Why The Corner Office Doesn't Work For Every Woman And What To Do Instead for one lucky listener. To win, all you have to do is DM me with your takeaway from the episode. You can do it on Instagram @bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell, or you can even email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. That is hello@financialgrownup.com.

BOBBI REBELL:
I love talking to Kathryn. She has so much value to add to this conversation. I hope everyone checks out her book, Ambition Redefined, and thank you, Kathryn, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz may be a Financial Grownup but that doesn’t mean all her friends have been able to grow up. Listen to how she works to get them on track. Plus- the president of the Charles Schwab foundation also shares an everyday money tip about making it easier to give to causes you care about. 

In Carrie's money story you will learn:

-How talking about money with your friend can keep you both on track

-The 3 craziest ways someone has tried to make quick cash

-What Carrie's number one priority is when it comes to saving, and how she follows through with it

-Hear why Carrie believes participating in the market is the key to saving for retirement

In Carrie’s money lesson you will learn:

-The one thing every financial professional does to save money and keep themselves on track. 

-The easiest way to be a good financial friend - and a successful financial grownup

In Carrie's everyday money tip you will learn:

-The ultimate tax smart way give to charity this holiday season 

In My Take you will learn:

-Carrie's friend from her money story was making some crazy financial decisions, here's how you can be the best financial friend possible without damaging your relationship

-Suggesting financial help to your friends could be the best gift you give this holiday season

Bobbi and Carrie also talk about:

-Carrie helped her friend's daughter pick out a broad-based index funds retirement plan, check out if that could also be right savings plan for you

-Mutual funds, index funds, and retirement plans are something to start thinking about as early as in your twenties. 

EPISODE LINKS

For all of your financial planning questions check out Ask Carrie Columns on Schwabmoneywise.com

Follow Carrie!

Twitter: @CarrieSchwab

Facebook: @CarrieSchwabPomerantz

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Her daughter's about to go off to college, she panics, so what does she do? She signs up to drive for Instacart in her red, snazzy car, dropping off groceries at people's homes.

BOBBI REBELL:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together.

BOBBI REBELL:
I'm going to bring you one money store from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, friends. Let's talk about being friends. Are you on track with your goals, but see a train wreck coming with someone you care about? What do you? Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz knows all about it, and has solutions.

BOBBI REBELL:
First, a quick welcome to everyone. If you are just joining us, you are new to the show, so glad you are here. We keep the shows short because you're busy, but if you are commuting or have a little more time, we fully encourage the binge listen.

BOBBI REBELL:
Got a question? We are putting together some upcoming episodes to answer them, so DM us at bobbirebell1 on Instagram, bobbirebell on Twitter, or email us, hello@financialgrownup.com. That is hello@financialgrownup.com.

BOBBI REBELL:
All right, let's get to Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz. I feel like she is the friend we all need in our back pocket. Yes, she is the daughter of Charles Schwab, and she grew up watching her dad build the business through ups and downs; but she is also, as you'll hear, a fantastic role model and financial expert in her own right.

BOBBI REBELL:
And, her story is one that we'll all be able to relate to. Here is Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Thanks, Bobbi, so glad to be here.

BOBBI REBELL:
I am so honored to have you, because you are so accomplished in your own right, even though you get talked about a lot as the daughter of Charles Schwab. We're not going to talk about him.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
No.

BOBBI REBELL:
We're only going to talk about you. You are President of the Charles Schwab Foundation, and this is what really we bonded over, is that we are both certified Financial Planners, so you know your stuff.

BOBBI REBELL:
You got a lot of other letters after your name, but that's the one that is most special to me, so-

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I think so, too. We worked hard, didn't we, Bobbi?

BOBBI REBELL:
We did. That is one hard test, so-

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Yeah, yeah.

BOBBI REBELL:
Big pats on the back to us, and kudos to all the CFPs out there who are doing a lot to support people's financial goals, and to act as fiduciaries, which is a really important thing, as well.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Yeah, and you know, Bobbi, this is how, again, you bring it up. Here we are, two women, and we need so many more women in our field, and I don't think people realize that this is not a field of match, or stem, or whatever.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
It's about helping people achieve financial security, and I think that we absolutely need more women in the industry to help people achieve that.

BOBBI REBELL:
Absolutely, and it's also important to be helping our friends, but that's not always an easy thing to do, which brings us to the money story that you're going to share.

BOBBI REBELL:
This is one of the most compelling stories that I have heard yet, because it really goes to the heart of what challenges us when it comes to money, and that is the human side.

BOBBI REBELL:
Tell us your money story, Carrie.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Well, this one's a hard one to share. One of my oldest childhood friends, who I love, she's like a sister to me. She's always struggled with money, always worked, and so forth; so I really respect her financial independence, but she didn't always make good decisions.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
You know? She's not always prioritizing how to spend her earnings. She's a lawyer, by the way, and the one story that just confused me a little bit is ... She has a daughter that went on to college, and she was ... She had been saving for her daughter's college education, but I guess she didn't quite have enough money, and she panicked.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
My girlfriend had been driving a Tesla, much to my chagrin.

BOBBI REBELL:
For those that don't know, what do Teslas go for about? Are they over $100000?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I think they're about $90000. Yeah, I imagine ... Definitely not in my budget. And so, she's driving these $90000, her daughter's about to go off to college, she panics, so what does she do? She signs up to drive for Instacart in her red, snazzy car, dropping off groceries at people's homes.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I had to think to myself, “What's with this?” You know? “Tesla and driving for Instacart? Where are our priorities?”

BOBBI REBELL:
What do you do as a friend when you see a friend making what in your mind are irrational money decisions?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
You know, that's a hard conversation to have, I have to tell you. And, she has had this tendency ... I'll tell you another little story about her. She would buy tickets, like the Rolling Stones would come to town, buy expensive tickets in hopes that she could sell them for a profit.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
And, guess what? She can't sell them, so she comes to me and my sister in hopes we'll buy them.

BOBBI REBELL:
Oh, my goodness.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Yeah, so I just finally ... I had to have some words and some tough love conversations with her, but, you know, the Tesla one, the most recent one ... she kind of knows how I feel. I just have to smile, and grin, and bear it.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
You know, “Why didn't you just get a Prius?” Because she wanted to go across the bridge, I guess you couldn't go through the fast lane, and so forth; but I would not say there's an easy conversation.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I would say I have little conversations along the way, about the importance of having your priorities straight, and really making number one priority, saving and investing for your retirement.

BOBBI REBELL:
I'm curious, do people come to you, your friends, informally for advice all the time? Kind of like the doctor that goes to parties and everyone says, “Oh, I've got this little bark here, can you tell me what it is?” Do you get that a lot?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I get it a lot, and to be honest with you, I so appreciate it. A girlfriend of mine, her daughter just got her first job in an investment bank, and I asked right away ... Specially for a young woman, I would say, “Have you started saving in your 401k?” And she said, “No, just because I don't know what to do.”

CARRIE SCHWAB:
She's in New York, and I'm in San Francisco, and I said, “Email me your options at your 401k,” so I took a look at them. I even consulted with one of our Financial Consultants who looks at this stuff every day, and we both agreed that she should be invested in a broad-based index fund that was offered within her plan.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
To me, it's all about participating in the market, specially for young people. When you're talking about retirement, you're talking about up to 40 years, potentially.

BOBBI REBELL:
Yes, we live a long time now.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
We live a long time, and put even more than 40 years, so it's so important to invest in a diversified portfolio of stocks, like a mutual fund, or an index fund. It's about participating in the market, it's not about picking the hot stock, or the hot mutual fund.

BOBBI REBELL:
Totally agree, so what is your advice, your takeaway in terms of being a financial friend? Admit it, you've had mixed success at. What is your advice for our listeners when they do see friends doing things that they know are not in their best financial interest?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Steer your friends towards professional help; and I would also say there's no shame in getting help. I tell people all the time that even I have a registered Investment Advisor, and even the professionals get help, because it takes the emotion out of it, it makes you accountable. Right?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Because, you know, you're showing up, you're meeting with your representative, and you learn, and you get better results. Give them somebody you totally trust, and then you can take it out and not sort of saturate yourself from the situation.

BOBBI REBELL:
So, Carrie, for your everyday money tip, it is almost holiday season, time to be thinking ... Hopefully we think about it all year-round, but time to be thinking, maybe a little more focused on giving to charity; and there is a way to do this where you often get more bang for your buck, as does the charity. Tell us more.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
The secret is a donor-advised fund. Most financial institutions have them. Schwab has one, I'm Chair of the Board, and basically you can open one up for as little as $5000. The way to make it tax smart is donate appreciated stock, that way you're not paying taxes, and you have more money going to the charity, and then ...

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Whatever amount it is, let's just say $10000, you get to deduct that from your taxes for that particular year. Then, you can take your time on what charities you want to choose from.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Basically there's a search button. We probably have almost all of the non-profits in the system, you point and click, put how much money you want, press “Send,” and we do all the leg work to get that check out to charity.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
And, what we find, is that 90% of our users say they give more to charity, because of the donor advise fund.

BOBBI REBELL:
Wonderful. Tell us more about how people can learn more about you, your work at Schwab. I love your personal Twitter feed, it's awesome. You really have great, inspiring-

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Oh, thank you.

BOBBI REBELL:
Messages on there. Where can people find out more?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Well, you can follow me @carrieschwab, and you can also follow on Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz on Facebook, and I have a lot of my content, my Ask Carrie columns, personal finance columns.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Or, if you want an educational site, I highly recommend schwabmoneywise.com. It does have my Ask Carrie columns, but it has lots of tools, and calculators, and information about every aspect about personal finance; and it's for all levels of knowledge around finance.

BOBBI REBELL:
Yes. I have been on the site many times. It is very well done, highly recommend, and highly recommend listening to you more. Thank you so much, Carrie, this has been wonderful.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Oh, so much fun working with you, Bobbi.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, everyone. Love how much you can tell that despite her frustration, Carrie really cares about her friends. Let's get to my tips.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial grownup tip number one. Carrie held back from saying what I would have said to her friend, which is, “Sell the car already!” I know that cars depreciate in value, and so it's hard because you kind of feel like you're losing money, but really, if she needed the cash, why not just downgrade to that less expensive electric car right now?

BOBBI REBELL:
And, while her friend was at it, maybe there are other things that she can sell that she truly isn't using to pay for her daughter's tuition, rather than be delivering groceries in fancy, red, sports cars.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial grownup tip number two. Adding to Carrie's advice, to bring in a third party for financial advice. Very often, the best way to help a friend is often to only be a friend. Bring in professionals to help with, maybe not only the financial stuff, but also when it comes to relationship issues or other major life crises.

BOBBI REBELL:
Not that you can't listen and be supportive. Of course you should, as a friend, but pushing them to make a decision that is obvious to you, and usually the world, could also backfire on your friendship and have long-term ramifications; because the truth is, as much as I think Carrie should have been even more blunt with her friend, and tell her to sell that Tesla already, every time the friend missed her Tesla she could potentially resent Carrie.

BOBBI REBELL:
And, it would take a big toll on their friendship, so it's really a delicate thing. I think Carrie had great advice.

BOBBI REBELL:
Thanks to all of you for supporting the show. One way to do that is to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, aka iTunes, or wherever you listen to Financial Grownup. I read every one, and they are truly appreciated.

BOBBI REBELL:
Also appreciated, Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz, whose great story of friendship and money really helped bring us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

At 20-years old, Lauryn Williams CFP® was the fastest woman in America, and suddenly faced some very grownup financial decisions. Lauryn shares how she put together a team of advisors including her coach and an agent, how they vetted different sponsors, and how she learned to get paid to run for a living. 

In Lauryn’s money story you will learn:

-Why one of the fastest women in the world chose to slow down and carefully make her financial decisions

-How much money a three-time Gold medalist really makes 

-What goes into an olympic sponsorship deal

In Lauryn’s money lesson you will learn:

-How keeping an open mind prepared Lauryn for the opportunity of a lifetime

-How to cope with money anxiety when making a big financial decision

In Lauryn's everyday money tip you will learn:

-The one person who will always save you money

-How to listen to others talk about finance with a grain of salt

In My Take you will learn:

-The number one question you always need to ask yourself before making a financial decision

-Why Certified Financial Planners need to be your best friend

EPISODE LINKS

Check out Lauryn's website here

Listen to Lauryn's podcast here

Follow Lauryn's company! 

Instagram: @worthwinning

Twitter: @worth_winning

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Lauryn Williams:
And so you can put the Adidas contract next to the Nike contract, next to the New Balance contract, et cetera, et cetera, and see one is offering a higher salary but the other one is offering a lower salary but is also going to pay for your school. Which I had one semester of school left when all this was taking place and that was really important to me, that I be able to finish my education and finish it for free.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, my financial grownup friends. That was fellow Certified Financial Planner, Lauryn Williams. Her company, by the way, is called Worth Winning. She also just happens to be a three-time Olympic medalist, the first American woman to medal in both the Summer and the Winter Olympic Games. Lauryn was a track star and then just kind of decided to get into the bobsledding thing, because why not, and of course she won a medal there to. By the way, she's a four-time Olympian. And Lauryn not only is a CFP, she is an MBA, she has an MBA in Finance. Talk about a role model.

Bobbi Rebell:
So welcome, everyone. So glad you are investing the time. And for those of you that are new to the Financial Grownup podcast, we try to keep it short, about 15 minutes, because we know how busy you are. But if you have a little more time, feel free to stack a few episodes together. Let's get right to Lauryn, I met her through our mutual friend, Jamila Souffrant, of the Journey to Launch podcast at Podcast Movement, where else, this past summer. And immediately I adored her, I know that you will too. In addition to all of the accomplishments that I just mentioned, and many more, she's just the coolest and most lovely person, and also a fellow dog lover. Here is Lauryn Williams.

Bobbi Rebell:
Lauryn Williams, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Lauryn Williams:
It's so good to be on. Thanks for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm so excited to have you because not only are you a four-time Olympian, the first woman to earn a medal in both the Summer and the Winter Olympics, you get the biggest gold star from me because you're an actual CFP, Certified Financial Planner. So, so great to have you, Lauryn.

Lauryn Williams:
It is really good to be on the show. I'm looking forward to telling my financial story today.

Bobbi Rebell:
I do want to just mention, you also are a financial professional, you are the real deal. Your company, Worth Winning.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah. I started a company to be able to help young professionals, people specifically in their 20s and 30s, organize their finances because I felt like there was such a big gap there. During my career as a professional athlete I had some advisors that didn't do a good job for me, and it was mainly because they didn't get what I needed at that age. So my company is specific to helping young professionals organize their finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we'll give all the information for that. And by the way, your podcast, Worth Listening, after your money story. But we want to get to this because this is really a unique perspective into the world of a money-savvy athlete. Because when you were in college, just 20 years old, you won a very big, big race and that brought you to a big financial milestone in your life. Tell us your money story, Lauryn.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah, so I was a junior in college at the University of Miami, having a blast. Made it to nationals my freshman and my sophomore year, but didn't have success. So on my junior year, I was on a tear. What do I need to do to win this national championship, I wanted to be the fastest girl in all of college. And I did, I achieved that. I ran the fastest time that day, won the race. It also happened to be the second fastest time in the world, for the whole year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just happened to be.

Lauryn Williams:
Just happened to be. And it was 2004, the Olympic year. So immediately I had to turn my focus from this one goal that I had of wining college nationals to, oh my goodness, America is counting on me to go to the Olympic trials a month from now and win that thing and represent Team USA.

Bobbi Rebell:
But also, there was a money element to this.

Lauryn Williams:
Exactly. So immediately after running that time I started to be approached by agents and they started approaching mostly through my coach. She was kind of the middle woman and she just had to sit me down and say, "Lauryn, as much as I'd like you to stay in college, I think it's going to be more lucrative for you to leave school. And the first part of that process if for you to get an agent."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. What happened was you were being approached by a bunch of companies who wanted to sponsor you.

Lauryn Williams:
Exactly. So, with track and field, the shoe companies are usually the main way that we earn a means of income. So it's not a situation where you earn a W3 employment somewhere with Team USA and then you get this as extra. If you don't have a sponsorship, you don't have an income and you're not really a professional athlete. That was the main thing, so I had to decide which shoe company I wanted to go with, which contract was going to be the best. And the agent helped a lot with putting in the restrictions and the bonuses and making sure everything was really good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So let's take a step back. You finish the race, what happens then? Does a shoe company just call your mom? How do they first get in touch with you? Break down exactly what happens and, if you feel comfortable, who was approaching you and how they value an athlete early on.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah. So the shoe companies are there at the meet, they're walking by you, they're shaking your hand, telling you good luck, we'd love to talk to you. And you don't have any long conversations in that moment, you just have kind of shorter ones. And then, like I said, my coach was very protective, made sure that first step is to get an agent, find someone that you trust, and let those shoe companies go through the agent instead of you having to talk to them directly. Because they're trying to woo you and tell you all these great things, but really it's going to come down to what's on that pen and paper and whether or not we should sign that. So we've got to get someone that's a professional, that knows about these contracts, in order to get the information we need. So that was the first step in the process really.

Bobbi Rebell:
So your coach guided you in choosing an agent. And what was that conversation like? Were you just swarmed by agents? How did you vet the agents?

Lauryn Williams:
I had to make a list of questions. I had to find out what I was looking for, what do I need from being a professional athlete, what can I expect from you? Because I'm 20 years old, I'm not even legally a grownup grownup yet. I'm going to need your guidance but I also know that I'm hiring you and you're going to make a living from this. So what can I expect from the money that you'll be paid to provide this service to me? And in track and field, an agent takes 15% of whatever they get for you, and that's a pretty hefty chunk of change. It's not 1% or 2% like it is in the other professional sports, so you'd better make sure that it's somebody that you trust and that's going to be making the best earnings for you so that they too, in turn, can earn.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, is that true? So in track and field they take 15%, what sports do they take only 1% or 2%? That seems really low.

Lauryn Williams:
Pretty much the big three sports. So the Major League Baseball, National Basketball Association, NFL. All of those have much lower percentages, but they also have much higher earnings.

Bobbi Rebell:
Fascinating.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah, our income fluctuates quite a bit in track and field. And so, for me, I was at around $200,000 as a 20-year-old. Like you said, fastest woman in the world in 2004. With, like I said, different bonuses and prize bonuses, if I ran a certain time I could get a bonus, if I won the Olympics I'd get an increase in salary. All those different sorts of things had to be negotiated.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So let's back it up a little. So you get the agent, then what happens? Did you just get a pile of offers and you just picked one? How did it work? Were there other factors? Was it just money? What kinds of things were you seeing, as a 20-year-old just getting these first money offers?

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah. So the agent comes to me kind of with a summary of here's what Adidas is offering, here's the salary, here's the bonus structure, and here's the ... You know, he was just going with the main things. Of course, you know, the final contract is 20 or something pages long, but the initial part is just here's a summary of what it is. And so you can put the Adidas contract next to the Nike contract, next to the New Balance contract, et cetera, et cetera, and see one is offering a higher salary but the other one is offering a lower salary but is also going to pay for your school. Which I had one semester of school left when all this was taking place and that was really important to me, that I be able to finish my education and finish it for free.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so you went with Nike. What were the factors that made that the winner for that first sponsorship endorsement deal?

Lauryn Williams:
Ultimately it was, like you said, the schooling was one of the big keys for me. Because, like you said, education was not optional. So for them being willing to support me, one, financially with a really good salary, then also pay for my education, they had a really good prize and bonus structure that if I did in fact run fast I would be compensated accordingly, which I thought was very fair. Every year that I won, I got a nice rollover or a nice salary increase. It was the most lucrative of the different contracts that were offered.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me what was your feeling when you signed that first contract. Did you have a new sense of financial security when you signed with Nike, at age 20, for $200,000?

Lauryn Williams:
As a finance major, I think my biggest feeling when I signed that contract was anxiety. It's like you've been given a really cool opportunity, don't blow it. And so the first thing I wanted to do was go and find a financial professional to help me, because I knew even though I was a finance major that I didn't have what it took just yet to be able to organize such a large amount of money that I'd never seen before, no one in my family seen before. It was excitement but mostly anxiety.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for our listeners from your story? From signing that first big contract at age 20?

Lauryn Williams:
I would say the takeaway is you never know when something really awesome is going to happen, when that windfall is right around the corner, but it's really about being prepared all the time. When opportunity knocks, be ready to answer the door and be prepared to take life at whatever it is, because it can immediately change. And my life changed overnight, I was a broke college student to hundred-thousandaire. Literally overnight.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. All right, let's get your everyday money tip, because this also relates back to those early experiences and some good habits that you learned early on.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah, I would say everyday money tip, make sure you have questions for whatever it is that you're going through in life. Whether it's hiring a financial professional, an accountant, an agent, when you're talking to your friends, ask questions. It's so important to be pulling information out of others as opposed to just taking the information as being fed to you. I found frequently during my career that people would give me information and they were only giving me the information they wanted me to have, and that ended up being catastrophic in a lot of different situations. So really having the ability to ask questions, look for red flags, and educate yourself in all aspects of life is the most important everyday money tip that I think your listeners need to hear.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Tell us a little bit more about your business now. So you did have some tough experiences with financial advisors and you've talked about that widely, that really helped pivot your career when you moved away from full-time being a professional athlete into being a full-time financial advisor.

Lauryn Williams:
Yeah, I just had to find a way to fill the gap. Like you said, there was so many basic things, from budgeting, to understanding first-time home purchase. I needed help with just those basic things and I realized that as young professionals, there's a gap in the industry. There's these big wealth managers that require you have at least a million dollars before you can get help and then there's these other guys that sell you crappy products. And I was like we deserve something better, we deserve just unbiased advice that could help us build wealth, sort through our student loans situation, sort through the financial basics so that we can get on the right track. And that's how Worth Winning was born.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what inspired you to become a CFP and not just a financial advisor? Because you don't have to be a CFP to do this.

Lauryn Williams:
You don't have to be a CFP but I feel like it's the standard. I wouldn't go to someone who said, "I read medical books all the time, so certainly I can perform this surgery on you." Yeah, you may be really smart, but I'm going to go with a doctor that's actually been to medical school. And CFP to me is the same sort of standard, where you've gone through rigorous education, you've gotten a certain amount of experience, you've taken a hard, hard, hard exam, and you're held to a level of ethics that is not what the whole industry is held to right now. So it was really important to me to be able to put that seal of approval and that stamp on, to be able to say I'm competent to serve people and do my best job for them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Where can people find out more about your and Worth Winning, and Worth Listening, your podcast?

Lauryn Williams:
Yes. Worth Winning is worth-winning.com and the podcast is worth-listening.com. And you can get to Worth Listening by going to Worth Winning, so I'd love to have you go and check out my website and see if something there rings true with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your social channels, you have a great following, by the way.

Lauryn Williams:
Oh, thank you. @worthwinning on Instagram, @worth_winning on Twitter. And then if you're looking for me, Lauryn Williams the Olympian, you can do lauryncwilliams on Instagram, Twitter, and you can find me on Facebook as well, by typing in either of those.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you, Lauryn.

Lauryn Williams:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. Love Lauryn's story, because it's such a different world. I mean, can you imagine being a star athlete and being offered hundreds of thousand dollar contracts when you're 20 years old, out of the blue, and all the responsibility that comes with it? I love the fact that she came out so strong and then it became such a great foundation for building her Worth Wining financial advisory business, and her Worth Listening podcast, which everyone should check out. Lauryn is a wonderful role model.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. Lauryn talked about asking a lot of questions and having your list. Okay, I want everyone listening to always have one question at the top of that list, no matter what you are buying, financial services or otherwise, how do you get paid? It's very important to know, is someone being paid a flat fee or are they being paid on commission. Now, there's no right or wrong answer, as long as you're comfortable with the answer. Generally, it's nice for financial services to go to somebody who's not being paid on commission because you know that they're seeling you, in theory they should be selling you, what is best for your needs. If it's commission-based, they may be selling you what gives them the best commission and you never really know.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's important to know how they're being paid. But remember, this is the financial services industry. In many other industries the general rule is that commissions are often the preferable way to be paid. For example, think about travel. Very often someone that helps you set up a trip is getting a commission and most people are okay with it being paid that way, as opposed to paying them a separate fee, although it can be done that way as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. You may have noticed that I was fawning all over the fact that Lauryn is a Certified Financial Planner. It is a big deal. When you give your money to someone, you need to know that they are qualified, that you can trust them. And I can tell you, that as a Certified Financial Planner myself, we are what is called fiduciaries. And that means that we have to work with you to find whatever solution is in your best interest, not just what is suitable. Fiduciary, big word, very important word, but pay attention to it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. If you have a financial question, a money question, or just a question about what goes on behind the scenes here at Fin aical Grownup that you want answered on one of our bonus episodes, we are taking listener questions. So just DM it to us on any of the social channels. On Instagram @bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell, or you can also just email it to us at hello@financialgrownup.com. That's hellow@financialgrownup.com. And thank you to Lauryn Williams for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

As a child, the future founder of McPherson Strategies learned about money when it was used as an incentive to break a bad habit. Susan McPherson also shares an extremely important money tip about ways to give to charity beyond your means as we get towards the holiday season.

In Susan’s money story you will learn:

-How money motivated Susan to stop a bad habit as a child

-What 4-year old Susan did with her earnings

In Susan’s money lesson you will learn:

-How even seemingly small amounts of money can serve as an incentive to change behaviour

-The importance of using creative tools to teach kids about the value of earning their own money 

In Susan’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to get paid by your company to volunteer 

-The importance of making sure you tap into your company’s matching dollar program when you give to charity

Bobbi and Susan also talk about:

-Susan being on of Twitter 25 smartest women

-Her company, social impact corporate responsibility consultancy McPherson Strategies turning 5 years old!

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of making sure your co-workers are also aware of company gift matching programs

-How you can leverage organizing a team for a corporate charity event into a networking opportunity as well

Episode Links

Learn more about Susan’s company McPherson Strategies!

Follow Susan!

Twitter: @Susanmcp1

Instagram: @Susanmcp1

Susan mentions Microsoft as an example of a company with a generous gift matching program. 

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Susan McPherson:
My mom offered to pay a penny for every time I blew my nose. So enterprising Susan at age four blew her nose 347 times.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my faith on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Money is a powerful motivator for us aspiring financial grownups and apparently, as we will learn from our guest, for four-year-olds. It's never too soon to get on board. It doesn't always have to be starting a business, aka a lemonade stand, to teach kids about money as we will learn from our guest, the remarkable Susan McPherson of McPherson Strategies which provides social impact consulting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. Thank you for your reviews and support. I read every one and they mean so much. For those of you who are new, we keep the episodes short, about 15 minutes because you're busy, but we know a lot of you binge listen when you have a long commute or are running errands. The idea is to create flex time for our podcast and speaking of busy. Our guest, Susan McPherson, is a moving target traveling the globe, helping her clients ... Well, make the world a better place through her company, McPherson Strategies. If you are ever fortunate enough to be anywhere near where she is speaking in person, you need to go make the time. Susan is such a dynamo and there's a reason that she was named one of the 25 smartest women on Twitter, so you need to be following this woman on Twitter too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Susan is the consummate connector and I am so honored to call her a friend and she shares a fantastic story. Get ready. Here is Susan McPherson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Susan McPherson. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Susan McPherson:
Well, I am so excited to be here Bobbi. You know I'm a big fan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you and I have been working to get on your calendar for quite some time. I know you just got back from a big trip and you are celebrating five years for McPherson Strategies. Congratulations.

Susan McPherson:
Thank you. My accidental company.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we'll talk more about that in a minute, but for folks who don't know you, they must check you out on social media where, for example, you were named, by Fast Company, one of the 25 smartest women on Twitter. You actually have won a bunch of these Twitter accolades and by the way, for good reason, because your tweets are absolutely brilliant and profound, but also brilliant and profound is little Susan as a four-year-old because that's how old you were when this money story happened and I can't believe this. This is the most original and we've done more than 100 shows. I am going to go out there and say this. This is the most original money story we've ever had on Financial Grownup. Susan McPherson, tell us.

Susan McPherson:
Well, I'm thrilled that it could meet those expectations. But when I was a young child, I had a terrible issue of getting ear infections all the time because when I would have colds, instead of blowing my nose to clear my airwaves, I would sniffle back in. I just didn't like the thought of putting the tissue up to my nose.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was that about? Why?

Susan McPherson:
And it was gooey.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. All right.

Susan McPherson:
And I think out of frustration, but also out of having to drive me to the doctor's office for all those ear infection treatments, my mom decided to be how can I use this as a lesson for my daughter and offered to pay me a penny one Sunday for every time I blew my nose. So enterprising Susan at age four blew her nose 347 times.

Bobbi Rebell:
In one day.

Susan McPherson:
In one day and of course, I looked like Rudolph by the evening with a very bright red nose, but I succeed in the mission of no longer sniffling in.

Bobbi Rebell:
What'd you do with your proceeds, Susan?

Susan McPherson:
Well, I remember my piggy bank couldn't hold that many and my dad helped me rack the pennies so that I could then turn them in to get actual bills and I think we just sucked it away. Just spend lots of money at Kindergarten because that's where I was headed next, so maybe crayons.

Bobbi Rebell:
The start of your investing career.

Susan McPherson:
Exactly. Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson from that aside from blow your nose, even if you're not being paid.

Susan McPherson:
Oh my God, don't get ear infections maybe. No, I think it's learn to count. Learn the value.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes because you did learn ... I have to say, as a four-year-old, counting to 347. That actually is a big number.

Susan McPherson:
Yes. Well, when you're the youngest, you tend to pick up things like that very very quickly.

Bobbi Rebell:
But seriously, what do you think are the money lessons that people can take away from that, especially money is a big motivator obviously for you. You didn't want to blow your nose, but you wanted those pennies.

Susan McPherson:
I did. I think it's working to make money. Nothing falls off trees, right? We all have to work hard and we have to be perseverate and obviously, my parents were creative or at least my mother was creative to get me to think about how I could use something that I was either wasn't good at or could be good at. Now granted, blowing your nose is not something you would do for a living, but take it for what it is. So for those of you, moms or dads, who are listening, maybe you have a child who has a similar issue and this may be a way to motivate them. Although I have a feeling you might have to offer quarters or dimes for every nose blow rather than pennies.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, a little less of inflation over the years. On a more practical basis for the adults listening, you do have a great everyday money tip that almost anyone that works for a company probably can do or can do something about getting their company to make it available.

Susan McPherson:
Thank you. Thank you. Yes, such a great question and I have to say for those of you who work for corporations or business, you should always ask if there is an opportunity for paid leave to go volunteer for the causes you believe in and you also should find out if your company provides matching dollars, which will make any donation you give to a particular cause have greater impact and to give you an example, not all of us work for Microsoft, but Microsoft matches up to $15,000 that you donate to an accredited nonprofit organization. That means if you give $15,000, that nonprofit will get another 15, which is $30,000 in your name.

Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa. That's nice.

Susan McPherson:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's lost money if you don't simply file the paperwork.

Susan McPherson:
Exactly. Exactly and it's super super easy. So if you have not inquired at your company, by all means, inquire about both. Many many companies now are offering a day or several days that you can take to go volunteer at an organization, so I would not miss that opportunity.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Susan. So let's talk just for a couple of minutes about McPherson Strategies. As I mentioned, it is five years old and you jokingly call your accidental company, but it's far from that at this point. You have been quite strategic in it and the company is growing. Tell us more about what the company does and how people can learn more about it and maybe get involved.

Susan McPherson:
Aw. Thank you so much, Bobbi. I really appreciate that. We are a social impact corporate responsibility communications consultancy. Meaning we help companies, nonprofits, social enterprises, and foundations use communications to provide visibility to the good work that they are doing and that can be a whole plethora of things. But most important, it is helping these folks provide visibility to the social impact they are having on today's society. We operate out of New York, but we have an office in Chicago and an office on the West Coast in Portland, Oregon and I think you can find us online at mcpstratgies.com and of course, on Twitter, you can follow me @susanmcp1 and if you just have an interest in either working with us or hiring us, just let me know. I'm easy to find.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Susan. This was amazing.

Susan McPherson:
Oh. Thank you, Bobbi. You're a gem and thank you for all you do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone. Love that story from Susan and I have this great image in my head of little four-year-old Susan blowing her heart out to earn that money. That kind of determination has served her well in life and I really loved what Susan had to say about leveraging your companies matching program to get every dollar possible for the causes that you care about. Here are more things that you can do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one. Spread the word. If you make a donation to charity and your company matches it, maybe just mention it to your coworkers as in, "Wow. I love that our company has a donation match." Don't assume everyone already knows that or that they know how to do it. They might be intimidated by the paperwork, not know where to look and just not bother. Same thing with friends. I know people who have parties to celebrate, let's say, a birthday and then they ask that the gifts be donations to a charity. Well, if you do that or if you know of somebody doing that, make sure that it gets communicated however you're comfortable that everyone who's giving a donation should find out if their company is able to provide a corporate match. Talk about amplifying the impact that you can make. Never assume that other people are as well informed as you are or even as motivated. Like I said, they might have the idea that the company doesn't match, but feel like, "Oh. There's so much red tape. I don't want to do it." There's a lot of easy money left on the table simply because of people maybe not wanting to seem pushy, asking people to do this when it comes to donations or if people are just being lazy or feeling intimidated about the whole thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Susan mentioned taking days off to volunteer which is amazing if your company provides it. I would also add that you, yourself, can organize a team for a charity event for your company and ask your company to sponsor it. They often have this money allocated in the budget or can get it if you ask. They don't cost a lot. It's usually a minimal thing and here's the really great bonus part of it. It's that by being the organizer of a team for, say, a charity run. You're not only going to be raising money for a cause. You're also going to be the one organizing it, which means everyone is going to be coming to you when they have questions, when they need their race shirts, whatever they're going to be wearing, their numbers and this is a great opportunity for networking within the company and you can meet people at all levels of the company, both the top people that might get involve or even the lower level people and it's important to know people in different areas of your company as well, so it's a really fun thing, you're doing something good and your meeting lots of different people within your organization, so it's a winning strategy overall. Hope you guys try it. I should have done that when I was at a big company. Live and learn.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for being part of the Financial Grownup community. We bring this to you for free. The only payment that we ask is that you share it with someone that you care about, that you believe would enjoy the podcast and get value from it. Your reviews and feedback mean the world to us. I read every one, so please take a few minutes to leave a review on Apple podcast, aka iTunes, or wherever you listen to the podcast and like I said, tell a friend to join us as well. And of course, thanks to Susan McPherson for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Boreland Group Founder and CEO Jennefer Witter learned early on that the best way to get clients was to offer extreme value. But to stay in business, and continue to serve the clients, the author of the Little Book of Big PR also learned when to put the brakes on the discounts. 

In Jennefer’s money story you will learn:

-How to utilize a current network to create a new one

-Why Jennefer values transparency with her clients and how it helped her build a business

-Ways to find out what to charge new clients

In Jennefer’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to create meaningful relationships with new clients

-Three ways to look at the return on investment

-Why Jennefer always sets a definite stop date with her clients

In Jennefer's everyday money tip you will learn:

-The one question Jennefer asks that saves her small business big bucks

-Why it's good to be aggressive in business negotiations

In My Take you will learn:

-Take an angle that makes you eligible for discounts

-Why sometimes working for free has the biggest pay off

Bobbi and Jennefer also talk about:

-Jennefer mentioned that she gets a small business discount for ProfNet, which helps her public relations company get leads

EPISODE LINKS:

Jennefer's book is available online here

Check out The Boreland Group's website here

Follow Jennefer! 

Twitter: @JenneferTBG

Linked In: @Jennefer Witter

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Jennefer W.:
It was a six month program, and yes I invested, when you added up over $10,000, but what I got back through that $10,000, was multiples in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to, Financial Grownup, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of, How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grown-up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story, from a financial grown-up, one lesson, and then, my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grown-up friends. Every business, or pretty much every business, I would think, starts as a start-up, and every business has to get that very first sale, and that very first client, and to make it happen, in most cases, that first client, that first sale, the business owner has to be willing to lose money on the bet, that they will win over that first client, and build from there, but many businesses make a mistake, in that, they don't really set the expectations right, and then when they do have to raise the price, so that they can actually make money, they get backlash, because the client's expectations were not aligned with the realities of the business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Our guest, public relations whiz, Jennefer Witter, who is the head of, The Boreland Group, and by the way, literally, wrote the book on PR. It's called, The Little Book of Big PR, was careful in her approach at that delicate start-up stage, and it has served her well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. We have a lot of new listeners, that we are very excited about. The show's are short, about 15 minutes, because you're busy, but of course, you can binge, stack a few together. Maybe if you're commuting, have a little more time to listen. Consider it flextime for podcasts, and with that, let's get to our amazing guest. Here is Jennefer Witter.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Jennefer Witter. You are a financial grown-up. Welcome to the podcast.

Jennefer W.:
I am so thrilled to be on, Bobbi. How are you?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm excited to finally snag you. You are one busy lady. You are, the CEO and Founder of the boutique, Boreland Group, and you're also the author of a book that I loved reading, 'cause I'm kind of on the other side of it. It's The Little Book of Big PR, which is awesome, and it really is a little book.

Jennefer W.:
It's a tiny little book. It's a paperback, softcover. You can also get it as an e-book, and I wanted it to be little, because you know what it's like as an entrepreneur.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Jennefer W.:
You have some things on your desk. You have to do this. You have to do that. You don't want to be reading, War and Peace.

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Jennefer W.:
So, with the full book of Big PR, the full title is, The Little Book of Big PR: 100+ Quick Tips to Get Your Small Business Noticed, is you can read a chapter here, a chapter there, or you can read it all at once, and it will not take you more than a couple of hours to read it, and you walk away with information that you can readily use in your business practice.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that, and you are an entrepreneur. Your business has grown, but when it first started, you had to make some difficult choices, and we always say, "Don't undervalue yourself. Don't give away services for free, but it's kind of complicated." Tell us your mini story.

Jennefer W.:
Well, here's the thing. When I first started The Boreland Group, it was 15 years ago. I really didn't think about becoming an entrepreneur. So, when I decided to do it, it was just like, "You know what? I don't have clients. I don't have any income coming in."

Jennefer W.:
So, I reached out to everybody that I knew, and I said, "Do you know of somebody, who is looking for a boutique public relations firm?" And I got one response back, after sending out like 200 emails, and it was a friend of mine, and he said, "I have a friend, who's sister-in-law is looking for a publicist." And when I met with her, she did not want to pay what I was charging at that time, and so, what I decided to do was invest, because I only was going to have one client, and I knew that once I got that one client, once I got that chance, I would have those doors open.

Jennefer W.:
So, what I did was, she paid me [crosstalk 00:04:20].

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Let me just stop you there. So, you say what you were charging, but the truth is, you were charging no one because you had no clients.

Jennefer W.:
No. No clients.

Bobbi Rebell:
This was your first client. Right. So, you had an idea of what you wanted to charge, but you didn't have a rate that you were getting. So, you needed to start building your client roster.

Jennefer W.:
Oh, absolutely, and so what I did with this one client was, and I'll give everything as transparent. I charged her $1,800.00 a month. One thousand, eight hundred dollars, and then, I invested another $1,800.00 into her. So, it normally would have been $3,600.00, but I was only getting back $1,800.00.

Jennefer W.:
Now, you may say, "You're giving away your services." And I absolutely was, but I knew that once people saw what I was doing, getting her into the media, getting her speaking opportunities, that I would be able to build upon this client that I had, into a client portfolio, and after [crosstalk 00:05:16].

Bobbi Rebell:
Was this client, Jennifer, let me ask you, was she aware? Did she really only have budget for $1,800.00, and was she aware that she was getting, quote, double the value of what you felt you should be paid?

Jennefer W.:
Oh, she was absolutely aware, and what I told her was, for this first six months, I would charge her $1,800.00, and at the end of the six months, it would go up to the $3,600.00. So, she was fully aware, and I wrote a program, and I said, "This is what you're going to get overall." And I said, "This part you're going to be paying for. This part is what I'm investing in." And I put together a plan, that was very tight, because you have to be careful about such things. You don't want to say, "I'm going to give you $1,800.00." And you wind up giving somebody $5,000.00. You definitely need to have parameters, that you don't sink yourself before you swim, and once I started to do that, and then I started leveraging, and I'd say, "I have this client. This is what we're doing."

Jennefer W.:
When I was meeting with the media, some of the media saw what I was doing, and they sent some direct clients over to her, and at the end of the six months, I did a new program for her at the full price, $3,600.00, and she knew that it was coming. She saw the work that I was doing. She appreciated everything that I was doing, and more than that, she saw the value. She signed the account. I got paid the $3,600.00. I had other clients, who were paying that amount, and my business was based on an investment, that I knew would pay off in the long run, and it did.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what is the takeaway for our listeners? Among young people, there's a lot of talk coming up in business, that it's really important to be aggressive with your pricing, and not undersell yourself.

Jennefer W.:
You know, I wasn't underselling myself, and you have to want to give, in order to get, and when you have zero clients, and you have the opportunity to get a client, who you know will be the foundation of growing your business, you need to take that step, and you need to invest, and know that at the end of that six months, or whatever timeframe you're going to get your money back. You have to look at the big picture. You have to be long term, and you have to look at that ROI, the return on investment. It can't stretch out forever in eternity.

Jennefer W.:
You need to have a definite stop date, which is exactly what I did with this client. It was a six month program, and yes I invested, when you added up over $10,000.00, but what I got back through that $10,000.00, was multiples in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is a great story. Let's talk about your every day money tip, because it also pertains to when you start a business, and you're the small guy, you still need to have the tools, that the big guys have, but they are expensive. So, you have a tip on how you can save, if you are an individual, or a small boutique business, and you have to be assertive about it. Go for it.

Jennefer W.:
Oh, absolutely, and what you need to do, this is what I did. I am a small business. I've always been a small business, and whenever you're going out for products and services, if it's expensive, you know you have to use it, but tell them, "You know what? I'm a small business. Do you have a small business discount? What can you give me? I'm not the Edelmanns, or the Ketchums of the world. I'm not pulling in like $30-$40 million a year. I'm pulling in a fraction, but what I am is a client, and there's more of me than there are of the Ketchums, and the Edelmanns, and the large corporations."

Jennefer W.:
So, if you go out there, and you are aggressive, if you are forceful, and you say, "Look, I'm a small business. I'll be a loyal client. Give me that discount, that I know that you can give me." Let me tell you, it works.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just so our listeners who aren't familiar, you were referencing large public relations firms, 'cause you are in the public relations business. So, can you give us a tangible example, of something that you bought when you were starting out, or buy now, and approximately what it would cost for a large business, and approximately what it would cost for a ... how much you can get a discount from, from sort of the list price, so people have an idea of how much you can ask for?

Jennefer W.:
Sure. One of the services that I use is called, ProfNet, and it's specific to the PR community. What it is, you get pushed about 100 leads a day, and you go through them seeing which ones are, that you can respond to. It's from reporters. It's from producers. They're looking for interview topics for the stories that they are writing or producing.

Jennefer W.:
For large companies, it's several thousand dollars a year. I'm not exactly sure. Like $3,000.00 or $4,000.00, and by making it clear, and asking for a discount, and saying that I am a small business, I got it for less than $1,000.00 a year. So, right there and then, I was able to save about, over $2,000.00, that I would have paid ordinarily, if I had not spoken up and say, "Hey, I'm a small business. I'm a solopreneur. What can you do for me?" And it worked, and I saved a lot of money, because of that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can we find you, and find out more about you?

Jennefer W.:
Well, you can always find me on Twitter, which is J-E-N-N-E-F-E-R-T-B-G. You can go to my website, which is The Boreland Group dot com. B-O-R-E-L-A-N-D Group dot com, and I'm on LinkedIn, and again, my first name is spelled funny. It's J-E-N-N-E-F-E-R, and the last name is W-I-T-T-E-R. No h.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there a story behind the spelling of your name?

Jennefer W.:
You know what? I wish. I just think it was a nurse, who spelled it incorrectly. Both parents deny spelling it with the e, and it's on my birth certificate, so it got there some way.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so funny. Okay. Love that, but it sets you apart. So, there you go. We're all unique in our own way. Thank you so much, Jennefer, with an e, Witter. This was amazing. Thank you.

Jennefer W.:
Thank you, Bobbi, with an I.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, Friends. Alright, let's get right to it. Financial Grownup Tip Number One: Jennefer does a great job asking for discounts, because she is running a small business. That is the angle that she uses. So, think about what your angle is. There's countless ways for you to get a better price, or a better deal in some way, on just about anything, work or personal. You gotta find your angle.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of my favorite ways to get a discount on something that I need, for example, for my business, but don't want to pay the full price, or can't afford the full price. Maybe it's not in my budget. I say that. I just reach out and say to the vendor, "That's just not in my budget right now. Will you be in touch, if and when you have something that's an alternative to the offering, or maybe you can offer me a price reduction, an option that can work within my budget?"

Bobbi Rebell:
I have always gotten a response, and in almost every case, we've been able to work out a way for me to become a client, because ultimately, that's what they want. They want to get you in to their system, as a client, at some level, and then hopefully, later on down the road, they can increase how much you're spending, because you'll see the value in the product.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number Two: So, here's the flip side of all that. The most important part of Jennefer's money story, isn't that she lowered the price for her client, or did some of the work for free, however you want to look at it. To get a new client, it's that she had a strategy to end it. Expectations were set right at the outset. So, let's just say, you're on the other side of the business that I just talked about, where you had a business owner like myself coming to you saying, "It's just not in my budget." And you work out a deal to get me onboard. The important thing is to set expectations to say, "Okay, we're gonna do this for one year, and then, in a year when you see the value and hopefully your business is doing better, and your budget would have increased, you're gonna come in at the regular price." And they're hoping, that I, the business owner, will see the value.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, it's important, as Jennefer did, to work with clients when they need you to work with them, but also have them recognize that they are getting something of value, that maybe they're not paying the full price for, and that the expectation is, down the road, the price will meet the level that it needs to be at, for the business owner to sustain their business, because at the end of the day, if you enjoy doing business with somebody, you like their product, you want them to stay in business, and to do so, you need to make a profit. All good things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another great thing. If you enjoyed this podcast, let a friend know. Help us grow the show. Also, share it on social media. On Twitter, I am at Bobbi Rebell. On Instagram at Bobbi Rebell One, and DM me with your feedback. A lot of you have been doing that, and it's really great for me to hear which episodes really resonate, and what you want to hear more of, and maybe what you're not that into. That's okay too.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love hearing all of it, and as I have mentioned on previous episodes, we are now gearing up to do bonus episodes, which will include listener questions. So, send them in. You can DM me on the socials that I just mentioned, or you can email me them at, hello at Financial Grownup dot com. That's, hello at Financial Grownup dot com.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of Jennefer's. She has so much to offer. Do check out her book, The Little Book of Big PR, and of course, The Boreland Group, and thank you, Jennefer, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grown-ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, is edited and produced by, Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media Production.

Behavioural Scientist and Good Money author Nathalie Spencer missed a credit card payment. Then she missed another. But she finally managed to stop the cycle after putting a grownup plan in place.  

In Nathalie’s money story you will learn:

-How Nathalie learned from the financial mistakes she made in her 20s

-The mistake she made that caused her to missed two credit card payments in a row

-Three tips Nathalie swears by so she never misses a credit card payment again

In Nathalie’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to find a balance between micro-managing money and forgetting to pay bills

-How automation makes financially growing up a little bit easier

In Nathalie's everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to treat yourself and your budget

-The little thing Nathalie does before finance meetings to put her mind at ease

In My Take you will learn:

-What happens after you forget a credit card payment and ways to fix it

-How paying and reviewing bills can actually save you money

EPISODE LINKS:

Nathalie's book is available online here

Follow Nathalie! 

Twitter: @economiclogic

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

nathalie Spence:
I missed another credit card payment. It's not even that I didn't have the money. It's just that I just wasn't paying attention. I didn't have the head space.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, Financial Grownup Friends. You know what old expression, "The dog ate my homework." For not paying your credit card, let's make it, "I just didn't have the head space," because, as you heard, that's all that was going on with our guest. She just didn't have the head space. Nathalie Spencer, not a highly accomplished behavioral scientist and author, had the money just not the head space.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. If you are new, we are so excited that you found us. We share money stories from high achievers, along with practical every day money tips that you can put to work right away. We keep the episodes to about 15 minutes, but feel free to binge on a few if you have a little more time today.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, let's talk about Nathalie Spencer. I was so taken with her book, Good Money: Understand Your Choices, Boast Your Financial Well Being. It is totally different from many money books that I have read, and I read a lot. I loved this book, and I'm going to talk to Nathalie about your unique approach to helping people find their financial wellness. Here is Good Money author Nathalie Spencer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Nathalie Spencer. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

nathalie Spence:
Thanks. Great to speak with you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Loved your new books, Good Money: Understand Your Choices, Boast Your Financial Wellness because you are a behavioral scientist. In fact, you work at the Common Wealth Bank of Australia, and you bring a very different perspective to money and financial education.

nathalie Spence:
That's right. Yeah, so the book Good Money is about the behavior science of financial well being, and what that really means is that we look at psychology and decision making science, and we try to uncover why managing money can actually feel really difficult but then also provide some practical tips for how we can get through that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you pay have been inspired by your own behavior in your 20s. Tell us your money story, Nathalie.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, that's right. So my money story is that I missed a credit card payment, and then the next month I missed another credit card payment. And the thing is that it's not even that I didn't have the money. It's just that I just wasn't paying attention. I didn't have the head space. Like everyone, I felt busy. I was working, volunteering, social obligations, all this stuff, and I just really wasn't paying attention. So, of course, I got slapped with a penalty fee and interest started growing on my balance. When I realized this, I called the credit card company to contest it. Somehow I could find time to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you had to at that point. You had to deal with it.

nathalie Spence:
Well, that's right. Yes. So I had to deal with. I had to pay for it. But also, I thought, "Ah well. I'll just see if I can get this charged reversed." But even on the phone, I could tell that just saying, "Oh, well I just wasn't paying attention," was not really a good enough excuse. So this was a huge wake up call for me, and there were a couple things that came from it. So one, I realized that I needed to start paying attention to my finances, and I did. I started to do so. But also it was that it doesn't have to be so hard, and that there are things that I can do to make it easier. So what I did after that call was I set up reminders. So then I would get a text message a few days before my credit card bill was due, and I also set up a direct debit. The direct debit was for the minimum repayment amount. So what this did was that hopefully I wouldn't forget to pay again because I'd get the reminders, but even if I did forget, I had built in the protection so that I wouldn't have to pay a penalty charge.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, now that you have a career as a behavioral scientist, what do you think was going on in your mind, if you could analyze your 20 something self?

nathalie Spence:
Well, I think it was simply I wasn't paying attention. Managing money can be kind of boring, and it felt like it wasn't top of mind for me. I was just going around kind of spending mindlessly on my credit card and not really thinking about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what are the takeaways for our listeners?

nathalie Spence:
So I think one is on a more general scale and that's that you can design your life in a way that you make it easier for yourself. So behavioral science can tell us a lot about our choices with money, and then when we understand how those concepts apply to our own lives, in our own context, in our own situations, then we're able to put systems or processes in place to help us, to help ourselves out really to manage money better. And then I'd say that probably more specifically that automation is so great, especially if you don't want to be spending all of your time kind of micro managing all of your finances and thinking about it day and night. Automation is just great. It makes easy. And what you can do is you can require a little bit of up front effort and cognitive effort there to make sure that you're automating something that you can afford in the long term. But once you start it up, then you can just kind of put it to the side and forget it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So let's talk about your every day money tip because I'm very intrigued by the term temptation bundling.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, that's right. So my money tip is for anybody that finds managing their money kind of a drag. If you find personal finance management a chore, then what you can do is bundle it with a treat or a temptation, that's where the term temptation bundling comes from. And the key here is to make sure that you resist the temptation and only do that when you are managing your money then. So, for example, my husband and I do this. Once per month, we have a personal finance meeting. Thrilling, I know. But what we do is we make sure that we go around the corner to the bakery and we get coffees and pastries beforehand, and then we bring them back home and we have a personal finance meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it softens the blow.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it makes it something that you're not really dreading because you're getting a treat also.

nathalie Spence:
Exactly. And it actually serves two purposes. So, first of all, it helps make the personal finance meeting feel a little bit more fun and less morning, but also it keeps me from buying a croissant every single morning because I know I can only get it when I'm doing my personal finance meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever snuck one, Nathalie, come on?

nathalie Spence:
Well, yeah. Maybe one or two.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Good Money because there's a lot of scientific backing to everything you talk about, but at the same time, these are really every day issues that we all have to face. So, for example, one thing that I thought was really interesting in your book was how cashless transactions can actually effect how we spend our money.

nathalie Spence:
Yes. That's right. This is really interesting because with new technology, so many people want our payment mechanisms to be faster and easier and slicker and from like a user design perspective, of course, that's a really good goal is to have these new technologies like apps or pay and wave or tap and go be very easy. That's great. It has a lot of benefits. But there's also a downside in that the less noticeable payment is and the less friction there is there, then the easier it is to spend mindlessly. So, again, it can kind of feel like you're on autopilot and just kind of going through and spending quite easily.

Bobbi Rebell:
And as someone who has never seen a sale that I did not like. I mean, the friends and family stuff that's going on in New York City right now is out of control. I'm so tempted. Why is it that when we feel that something is a bargain, I mean, it's so difficult to resist?

nathalie Spence:
Well, that's exactly it. Well, there are a lot of things that might be going on that retailers can do to get us to spend more money. One is that when you see the original price and then you see the sale price, what you're doing is you're comparing the sale price to the original price. So, of course, it seems like a fantastic deal. Let's say, I don't know, you're spending $50 on something that's marked down from $100. Well, it feels fantastic. But actually, if you hadn't see the original price, the question that you should ask yourself is would you have paid $50 for this anyway?

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know that we would have, but I can't buy something. I don't want to buy something full price. That's just so crazy. Why do we do that to ourselves, Nathalie? Tell us.

nathalie Spence:
I don't know. I'm a victim to it as well. But having the original price there can really tempt us into thinking that it's a good deal.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tell us where we can find your book and where we can find out more about you.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, great. So Good Money is available in the U.S. and the UK, Canada, and Australia at all of the major bookstores. So you can find it online or on shelves. And you can follow me on Twitter @economiclogic.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Nathalie.

nathalie Spence:
Thanks so much, Bobbie. Great talking to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. Love hearing about the psychology of how we spend money from Nathalie. The book really is fascinating in all the data and analysis of why we do the things we do when it comes to money. Let's get to my take on Nathalie's story though. To some degree, this is an easy one because I could just say, guys, automate your bills. But let's actually move past that. Financial Grownup Tip #1: if you do mess up, after you put the systems in place and automate, as Nathalie and pretty much every financial expert will tell you to do, make the phone call. Get the person on the phone to undo the damage. Credit card companies will often give you a one time pass, sometimes more on the fees even if it was your fault. So take the time to ask for the penalty to be removed, even if you were actually the one that messed up. Also, know how your credit works in terms of the interest. In some cases if you don't clear the entire balance, you may still pay interest charges. So when you make that call, ask exactly how the interest works.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip #2: just because you automate the payment, doesn't mean you don't open the bills every month. Go through the charges. I have made this mistake because the bills paid, so my stress. But then you go to check the bill after skipping for a few months and you realize that maybe you're paying something that you didn't realize, like a subscription renewal. If you catch it right away, you have a good chance of canceling. But if you have, for example, a kit's annual membership and then you miss the payments for a few months, it is a tougher argument to make. So automate it but don't forget it. And of course it goes without saying that you should be looking at those bills because there could also be fraudulent charges on there. Sometimes criminals will test charging something with very small amounts to see if you notice, and then gradually work up to larger amounts. So it's really important to be vigilant and check those bills even if you automate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Loved Nathalie's book Good Money. Please do check it out. As I said, totally different approach, data, science, all that. Worth the focus that you do need to have. This is not a quick, easy page turner. This is a deep book, and it has a lot of pictures so it makes it really interesting. And the illustrations are good. But this is science. This is the real deal. I love this book. You can tell. You get out of it what you put into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So thank you for your candor, Nathalie, with your story. Thank you for helping us understand how and why we spend the way we do, and, of course, thank you for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Steward and is a BRK Media production.

Entrepreneur and Investor Barbara Corcoran explains why she believes spending money in a deliberate way even before you earn it is a smart business strategy, and shares the story of her first really big investment. And yes, she committed to it before she had the money.

In Barbara’s money story you will learn:

-How she bought her first house at age 29 (which had 8 bedrooms!)

-The importance of discussing big purchases with a significant other

-How Barbara saved $7,500 in three months

In Barbara’s money lesson you will learn:

-How she motivates herself to save money

-Why she chooses to ignore rational and take risks

-Her advice on committing to a goal

In Barbara’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Why she spends money before she has it

-How she puts herself under pressure in order to produce financial results

In My Take you will learn:

-Why it's always good to listen to different opinions and take advice from successful people

-Two negotiation tips that will save you money and help your career

Bobbi and Barbara also talk about:

-Chef Boyardee and Ramen noodles, the quick dinner that helped save Barbara money and reminded Bobbi of her childhood

EPISODE LINKS:

Listen to Barbara Corcoran's podcast Business Unusual here, and on iTunes

Watch Barbara give more business advice on the multi-Emmy award winning show Shark Tank on ABC

Follow Barbara!

Twitter: @BarbaraCorcoran

Instagram: @BarbaraCorcoran

Facebook: @TheBarbaraCorcoran

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Barbara Corcoran:
I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I start spending it even before it arrives.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, my Financial Grownup friends, brace yourself Barbara Corcoran is here and she is going to give it to us straight up, no beating around the bush and she said some things that frankly I was pretty surprised with. They go against almost everything that I've been taught about building a solid financial foundation for your life, for your business, but she made it work. I'm still not sure I could make it work for me, but I'm thinking about it because she makes a good case and I'm interested to hear what you guys think after you hear her interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
So glad you are here. As I said, this episode is a really big one, so if you're new, you're joining it a really good time. We do something by the way called flex time for podcast, the episodes are kept pretty short, around 15 minutes. The idea is no excuses you can always fit it in, make it easy for you while you're running a quick errand, what have you, but if you have a longer commute, you can also stack them. We have a library now of more than a hundred episodes so you can listen to a few on your commute if that's what worked for you. Make sure that when you subscribe and hopefully you are subscribing, we really need the support that you set the downloads, go into the manual settings and set it so that you automatically get the downloads so that you don't miss any and you're good to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we love automation because that way things just happen and it's one less thing to remember. Alright, let's get to Barbara Corcoran and you know her from Shark Tank and now she has a new podcast called Business Unusual, also really short, so that's a good thing. She gives a lot of advice that seems shocking until you listen to it and listen to her reasons and then think that is part of how Barbara Corcoran is successful. It's the unusual. She approaches things in a different way from the way that we're always used to approaching it and it works for her. It may not work for you. The big takeaway from this episode, which you'll see I'm going to talk about after her interview. I don't know if I could do it, but I can see how it worked for her. So with that, here is Shark Tank's Barbara Corcoran.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Barbara Corcoran you're at Financial Grownup welcome to the podcast.

Barbara Corcoran:
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of your new podcast. For many reasons, of course also because it's a short podcast, but you have the best wisdom and you share so many lessons from your life, so thank you for that.

Barbara Corcora:
My pleasure. I enjoy doing it, but it's a scary proposition as I'm sure you will know, you have to earn people's ears while you're talking to them.

Bobbi Rebell:
You do, well you've been earning it for many years and you're going to share a money story from early in your life, your very first real estate purchase or I should say your first house and it sounds like it's going to be a story, but there's something that happened that I think people want to hear. Go for it.

Barbara Corcoran:
Yeah, and it has a valuable lesson. When I committed to purchasing my first home with my first husband. I was about 29 years old. I didn't have a pot to pee in as they say, but we sat across the dinner table for a man who said he was selling a certain house that was like a magical house from what I heard, and my mouth said, I'll take it. And why it was magical. It was a house that anybody would think you could only dream about, which was a house with eight bedrooms two guest cottages, a wet and a dry boat house facing a brand new lake.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you have kids at this point, Barbara?

Barbara Corcoran:
No, of course not.

Bobbi Rebell:
Who was moving into this mansion?

Barbara Corcoran:
Listen, I figured I'd have fun with friends, but I had no rights saying we'll take it to which my husband was more startled than I was over my own mouth. Because we didn't have a dime to our name, we were struggling to just meet our bills. We're still kind of kids coming up the ranks, but-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so tell me what happened. How did you buy the house?

Barbara Corcoran:
Once I said we'd buy the house, we had the problem of coming up with the down payment, 7,500. And so my husband and I started eating tomato noodles every night that I think they're chef Boyardee or something in a can and bring them lunch every day and we saved every penny of what we were earning in our lives, short of the rent we had to pay for our studio apartment. Well, three months hence we had most of the down payment but not quite and we're out for dinner with the same big boss of his and he mentioned that his father, he wanted to close, which was putting ... Was scaring me to death because I still didn't have enough money.

Barbara Corcoran:
But he said his father was reluctant to leave the house and I volunteered. Well, why don't you let your father stay there, but in trade for that, I got four months extra time. So we were able to save the down payment of $7,500. No problem. But when we got to the closing, the closing costs too, which I didn't have, but he was so in dear to us for keeping his elderly dad in the house that he paid for the closing costs for us. And we moved into that beautiful house and we had it for seven years until I decided to leave my husband and he got the house.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why did that happen? How did you let that happen?

Barbara Corcoran:
You know why? Because I got the apartment in the city by then we had bought a one bedroom apartment in the city and I sold that one bedroom that I paid $80,000 for two years later for 250. And he sold that house that we had paid $75,000 for two years after our divorce for $75,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Barbara Corcoran:
I'm a believer in always committing throwing it out there and say I'm going to do it. Because when you have that kind of pressure and you've publicly committed, you find a way to get there. If you can commit to something, you'll find a way of getting there. If I had said, give me a couple of months, let me see if I could save for the house, believe me, my rational side would have kicked in and said, what are you doing? But because I said I would, I found a way that could do it and that's the truth, and most people are better than they think. If they're willing to be courageous enough to state it as low as fact and then make it happen versus the other way around.

Bobbi Rebell:
And eat a lot of canned noodles.

Barbara Corcoran:
Oh yeah,[inaudible 00:06:40] Yeah, you can do anything if you know it's temporary.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us your everyday money tip because this is also a real Barber tip because this is something that works for you may not work for other people, but it is a strategy that people might want to consider. Again, for you it works it may not be for everyone. Go for it.

Barbara Corcoran:
It's a particularly good strategy if you're out to those your own business, and I'll tell you why. My strategy is this. I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I started spending it even before it arrives. The reason for that is I have no choice but to actually make it happen whatever I'm doing. Because I know I've already committed the money. It's like putting a gun to your own head where you have to produce. If instead you wait for the money to come in and then say, okay, I've got this little extra cash. We've had a profit this month. Let's see the best use of it. That sounds rational, but I'm telling you the fever with which you attacked the best use of it is nothing compared to knowing that the bank is going to come in and chop your head off if you don't produce.

Barbara Corcoran:
So. I've always consistently put myself under pressure by spending money long before I have it and I've never let myself down. There's something magical that happens in the universe when you really under fire when you have no choice that you find a way to get there, and so I'm a big spender and on top of that I can also say, although I was born a poor kid and have my thousand dollar loan from my boyfriend, thank God, or we have been able to quit my waitress job and starting a business nowhere. Okay.

Barbara Corcoran:
But once I had that thousand dollars, I just thought, you know what? This is found money. It's a gift from God and I'm just gonna run this thing up the flag pole until somebody stops me and my most assured policy of making sure no one stopped me was to spend money in advance of having it because I had no choice but to make good on it. I had no choice and ran like a devil with a limited timeframe and I was able to accomplish 10 times more than all my competitors simply because of the pressure I had put on my own back. All right, so it's not what you read in accounting book, but I can tell you when you're building a business, it's a smarter way to go than to be calculated and do it a step at a time.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's the real world. One other quick question though, did you ever have trouble and how did you handle it collecting those receivables?

Barbara Corcoran:
No, I wrote off about 10% of my receivables because you have to appreciate. My business was selling co-ops in New York City and we had about 10% of our deals that didn't approve the Co-op association. They were turned down by the board, so I knew what that average was the first year, by the typical may be the second year in business, I realized I lost 10% of my deals, so I just wrote off that 10%. So that was realistic in suddenly a good accountant would do, but that's where my relationship or any resemblance to an accountant definitely ended in my attitude to it and everything else.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. I want to talk quickly about your, still relatively new podcast even though who would know it because it's always at the top of the charts where to I'm trying to climb, but you're there and that's a lot because your podcast is so good. It is a short one, so dear to my heart, but you also really deliver personal and as you have here very honest and straightforward advice about your life and the lessons that you have learned and your bold with it. Your most recent episode talked about quitting jobs. You quit 22 jobs Barbara, you also talk about negotiation skills. Tell me more about this podcast and why it is so different and people are really responding to it?

Barbara Corcoran:
I think people are responding well simply because I tell it like it is. And it doesn't mean if it's the person listening, but I think they leave trusting that they heard the truth and I also think I'm impatient by nature. So if you're gonna ask me what about negotiation? Most people can write a book on that. I can't. I can tell you in eight minutes flat, what the key to negotiation, what are the key moves and what doesn't work. And really I don't have more to say after the eight minutes. So I think because I have such a short attention span and because I'm so impatient by nature myself and listening, I want to know what you want out of me and what do I gotta do. And that's pretty much how I am with everybody. Get to the point and then tell me how you get there.

Barbara Corcoran:
So I do get to the point and then tell you how I get there and then the eight minutes are up and I'm signing off. I wish I was more verbose and had more great delicious detail, but I just say the main things that worked for me and I leave it at that and my sign off until the following week. So I hope it works. We'll see. It's very scary as I'm sure you know, to merit someone's eight minutes. I feel it's such an abuse or a trust that I feel like every word has to really, really count or I have no business doing its own. I'm Mostly scared, I'm scared to six days. Then I do the podcast, then I get scared all over again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you're doing a great job. I don't find you scary at all. I love it. I think you're worth investing every one of those eight minutes, so thank you for all that you do. Everyone knows where to find you, but just in case because I ask everyone, tell us where you can be found, where people can follow you on social and what else is important that's going on in your life that we should know about.

Barbara Corcoran:
Well, of course it's a Business Unusual, which is the podcast, my newest baby, but as usual, any social platform @BarbaraCorcoran is very easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you Barbara.

Barbara Corcoran:
I love you back. Bobbi. Thank you so much. And Go back to your real name, Barbara, it's such a pretty name.

Bobbi Rebell:
So if you're like me, you want to hit rewind and listen again. She's that good. And before I get to the financial bonus tips, just want to make a little comment about the food because we spend so much time agonizing over all of this organic fancy food and when we're saving money, everyone talks about the ramen noodles. I want to talk to you about the chef Boyardee that she and her husband were eating to save up money because you know what, that's fun childhood memories for me. My mom was a working mom and you know what? Sometimes we have something called spaghettios. Do you guys even know what that is? It's basically this like circle pasta in a can and tomato sauce and it's delicious. It may not have any nutrition, but if you see spaghettios in the store, I have no affiliation with them. Pick them up and try them instead of ramen noodles if you're trying to save money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just for variety, be a little bit bad. Like I said, they're probably not nutritious at all. All right, let's talk about my tips. Finance grownup tip number one. Sometimes financial advice like Barbra's goes against common stereotypical things that we hear. Here's the thing though, always listen to different opinions especially when they're from someone like Barbara Corcoran who has been so successful in so many different fields, to not only real estate where she started out, but also now with Shark Tank. She's an entrepreneur investing in so many different companies, so listen to her and give it some thought. Now I'm not telling you to go out and spend money that you don't have or even to spend on receivables, which is really what she was doing. It was money that she had contracts for but had not yet received so she believed that money was coming, but I see her point and I also see how that can create a really strong motivation so before totally rejecting it or even accepting it, play out how that would work for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
How are you going to cover things for example, if someone does not pay or if they pay, but they are on a delayed schedule so they're not paying in 30 days like your bill says they're paying 60, 90, 100, 20 days out. How are you going to finance that? You have a line of credit with your business. Are you throwing that on a credit card where you might be paying interest, late fees? What have you, factor that in. Are you going to charge a late fee to them? Barbara factored in that 10% of her expected commissions receivables were not going to happen so even she was doing that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, be creative and flexible. When you're negotiating. Barbara, let the sellers elderly dad stay in the house longer than originally planned. Again, you have to give Barbara props for being open minded and in return by the way, she got precious time and the goodwill was so strong and her gesture was still appreciated that the closing costs were paid by the seller.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is huge. Thank you all for being part of the Financial Grownup community. We bring this to you for free. The only payment we ask is that you share it with someone that you care about and that you believe would enjoy and benefit from the podcast. Your reviews and your feedback. I'm just going to tell you guys straight up there is really important. I read everyone, we don't get as many as I would like. There aren't that many there and I know a lot of you are out there. A lot of you are DMing me, which is actually really great. Still DM me, gave me the feedback, but if you can also leave reviews on Apple podcasts, that is also really helpful to get the show notice because that's how people discover the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you do want to also be in touch on social media, it's not either or guys. Follow me and DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1 that's the number one on twitter I'm @BobbyRebel and on Facebook, Bobbi Rebell as well. And big things of course to the amazing Barbara Corcoran, the ultimate Financial Grownup. Everyone check out her podcast Business Unusual and watch her on Shark Tank and thank you Barbara Corcoran for getting us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Ameliora Founder and CEO Adrienne Kronovet started paying close attention to clothing as a child shopping with her grandmother, and shares her timeless insights on shopping strategies and lessons learned. 

In Adrienne’s money story you will learn:

-The role the perfect pair of jeans played in her success

-Her strategy to determine value when deciding what clothing to invest in and more

In Adrienne’s money lesson you will learn:

-Her specific tips to find the best values when shopping

-The different ways you can leverage confidence to make the best financial decisions

In Adrienne’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to look at the cost-per-use of an item

-Exactly what to look for when purchasing a work-appropriate wardrobe, especially when you are first starting out in your career

EPISODE LINKS:

https://ameliora.com/

Follow Adrienne and Ameliora!

Instagram @Ameliorany

Facebook @Ameliorany

Pinterest @Ameliorany

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Adrienne Kronov:
I found these jeans. They were bootcut, dark wash, denim. I think they were about $60. I put them on, and oh my gosh, I felt invincible.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. How can you tell when an expensive clothing buy is really an investment piece and not just a splurge that you're trying to justify? There are specific things that you need to know, and our guest is going to educate us. First, quick thank you just for being here. Your time matters. We appreciate it. We try to keep the show around 15 minutes because you're busy. The show is also free to you. We've done over 100 episodes, and the only thank you that I ask is that you give back by telling a friend that you care about and helping them find the show. They may not even know how to listen to a podcast, so help them actually load it onto their phone or other device so that they can also benefit from the stories of these amazing high achievers that we get to speak to here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, to another high achiever, our guest. You guys are just going to love her. Adrienne Kronovet founded and self-founded her clothing company, Ameliora, remember that name, with a very clear mission that she's going to share, and she is already making a real difference. But it all started with some special shopping trips with her grandmother. Here is Adrienne Kronovet.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Adrienne Kronovet, CEO of Ameliora, hopefully I said that right, all of 23 years old. You're already a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Adrienne Kronov:
Thank you so much, Bobbi, and you pronounced it all right. I'm such a fan, and it's so awesome to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm glad you're being honest. But we did practice that, so we do try.

Adrienne Kronov:
We did.

Bobbi Rebell:
I've botched quite a few names, so we got past that one. So I mentioned your company, Ameliora, and we're going to talk more after [inaudible 00:02:28] but just quickly, since you're all of 23 years old, this is a self-funded, beautiful clothing company, the most elegant jackets and pants-

Adrienne Kronov:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
... named after extraordinary women. Just tell us a little bit about it.

Adrienne Kronov:
Yeah, absolutely. So I started Ameliora almost a year ago, which is so crazy to say, to make clothes that would make women feel confident and empowered. I really wanted to have clothes you would take out for a special occasion. If you had an interview to go to or you had a meeting or you were giving a presentation, I wanted to create clothes that you would grab for that special moment and put on that would make you feel absolutely invincible.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they are. I am the proud owner of the Carmen jacket, which we'll talk about later. They are beautiful, down to the fabric.

Adrienne Kronov:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Part of that is because you learned the appreciation of clothing. You're from a family that was in the clothing business back in your home state of North Carolina, where your grandfather had a clothing mill, and you actually have a lot of childhood memories of, for example, shopping with your grandmother and a specific pair of jeans. Tell us your money story about these jeans. I think you wore them for almost a decade.

Adrienne Kronov:
I did. So every year for my birthday, my grandmother would take me shopping, and she did this for all of her grandchildren. And we all looked forward to it because my grandmother has the most exquisite taste-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait.

Adrienne Kronov:
Yeah?

Bobbi Rebell:
Was this an outing for all of you at the same time, like one big day, or was it your birthday day?

Adrienne Kronov:
It was our birthday day, but we always when it was coming up. Grandma Maryann would call us, we'd pick a date, and then we'd head off to the mall. It was something that I know myself and all my cousins really looked forward to.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what was a day at the mall like with your grandma?

Adrienne Kronov:
It was an event. So my grandmother, she would pick us up. We'd go eat at the food court and we'd make a map of where we wanted to go and pick the highlights and stores we really loved. Like for my male cousins, I think she took them to maybe Dick's, and I know for me and a lot of my girl cousins, we went to Hollister and American Eagle. And she really custom tailored where we would go depending on our own personal taste.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a budget, or this was just the ultimate shopping spree?

Adrienne Kronov:
I mean, of course, there was always a budget, but it was really interesting because she never framed it around money. It was all about how the clothes made you feel. So, yes, there was a budget, but it never felt like one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. So then tell me what would go on in a typical shopping trip and about these jeans you want to talk about.

Adrienne Kronov:
My grandmother, it was such this treasured experience that she and I shared. So we, one day, I think it was I want to say my 12th birthday, and the two of us, we ate at the food court, and then we immediately headed over to Hollister. I tried on a bunch of stuff, different shirts, dresses, and all the sudden I found these jeans. They were bootcut, dark wash, denim. I think they were about $60. I put them on, and oh my gosh, I felt invincible, and my grandmother, she took one look at me. She saw how I felt in them, and she said, "You know what? We're getting them." So we got them, and I wore them from 12 to 21.

Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa, and by the way, just remind everyone, you're 23 now. Okay, go on.

Adrienne Kronov:
Right. I'm 23. Yeah. I'm 23 now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Miss CEO.

Adrienne Kronov:
[inaudible 00:05:48] right. So I wore these jeans at every place I had to go. I wore these jeans because I felt super, super invincible. I knew that if I wanted to look good, I would wear these bootcut jeans. I wore them to my first day of college. I have pictures and pictures of me in the same pair of pants. I mean, I wore them for almost 10 years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did anyone ever notice? I mean, they're jeans, so most people don't, right?

Adrienne Kronov:
People don't. None of my-

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. Then it's a good thing it wasn't a crazy top or something.

Adrienne Kronov:
Oh my gosh. Exactly. And that was the best part because they were such a great, universal pair of jeans that I could wear them with a blazer if I needed to be more formal. I could wear a T-shirt if it was casual. They would work with heels, with sneakers, with slippers. I mean, I loved, loved these jeans.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from this?

Adrienne Kronov:
I guess the takeaway would be get a good pair of jeans. I think the big takeaway from this is to be thoughtful in your purchases, make your buying really deliberate. I'd bought these jeans. When I got them, they were pretty universal so I could wear them with a blazer, like I said. I could wear them with really anything. They were so versatile. They were a forever piece in my closet, and just having that to turn to was so amazing knowing that I had a go-to item that would make me feel super confident.

Bobbi Rebell:
And speaking of investing in clothing or items that are going to really last, I love your everyday money tip because it's something that is becoming more of a discussion topic, especially as Millennials, like you, are moving up the career ladder and becoming more successful in business and wanting to present a certain way among their peers and colleagues.

Adrienne Kronov:
Yes. Absolutely. I think when, as myself and my friends, as we get older, we really want to look professional and we want to look polished. And so that leads me to my money tip, which is rather than just the initial sticker price is to focus on the cost per wear, which is basically where the value of the item is directly related to how much you use it. So if you have a $30 dress and you wear it once, the cost per wear is 30 bucks. But if you spend $100 on a dress and you wear it 20 times, the cost per wear is $5. I mean, I think my $60 Hollister jeans, I think the cost per wear was in the negatives.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. Pennies. Pennies.

Adrienne Kronov:
Pennies.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, which is excellent. Try to get to pennies in your cost per wear. Let's talk more about Ameliora, because, as I keep saying, you're 23 years old. You basically founded this right out of school, self-funded, which is incredible. You did have a family background. Your grandfather operated a clothing mill in North Carolina. This is not just about the clothing, though. Tell us more.

Adrienne Kronov:
Yeah, absolutely. It's all about how clothes can make you feel, the feeling I got when I put on those jeans and I felt invincible. It's about creating blazers and jackets and different items that you put on and you feel like you can conquer anything.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they all go together. They're all coordinated, which is great.

Adrienne Kronov:
Yes. Absolutely. Everything is made in the same black, except I will give you a bit of an exclusive-

Bobbi Rebell:
Ooh.

Adrienne Kronov:
We are in the process of developing and launching a new shirting that will introduce white into the collection, which I'm really excited about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. I think I read a little bit of a hint about this. You're sourcing unusual fabrics, so there's also some innovation happening here.

Adrienne Kronov:
Right. What we're trying to do is we're trying to elevate the regular suit. So in our suiting and in our shirting fabric, we're using performance fabrics. So imagine the same fabric that's used in Lululemon legging but as a shirt, a professional shirt.

Bobbi Rebell:
I need to see this. I'm going to have to track you down in New York and come down and see it. So where can people get your stuff? Where can people get everything?

Adrienne Kronov:
Yes. You can find us 100% online at Ameliora.com. We live on the web. We're accessible 24/7 from any device.

Bobbi Rebell:
And social media, where can people follow you?

Adrienne Kronov:
Yes. Social media @AmelioraNY.

Bobbi Rebell:
On all the channels.

Adrienne Kronov:
On all the channels.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This was amazing.

Adrienne Kronov:
Thank you so much, Bobbi. It was such a joy to be on.

Bobbi Rebell:
I can't wait for all of you to check out Ameliora. The pieces are stunning. I own a Carmen jacket and love it, and I love that she's expanding beyond black. Who knows what's next? Financial Grownup tip number one, if you do splurge on something you love, and then you realize you were wrong, return it. Now, that may sound obvious, but as everyone who has cleaned out his or her closet knows, you probably found some items with tags on it. You know who you are. And in fact, go through your closet right now and see, or after you finish listening, and see if any items have tags on them, and if it hasn't been too long, return them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, leverage what you know and who you know. I met Adrienne almost a year ago when she was just launching the line right out of college. Most people would say she should have worked at a fashion line behind the scenes and learned the ropes, but you know what? Because her family had been in the garment industry, she already knew the ropes, and she was able to use that to her advantage. A lot of people don't want to go into family businesses, but tapping into what those closest to you know and know well is a smart move, and that goes for friends who may have insights and connections in a given field as well. Use it. Life's tough enough.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hope you enjoyed this episode. We have some big new things planned that I will be talking about later this week, so be sure to subscribe and go into settings to make sure that you are in auto download mode so you don't miss it. Be in touch on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and on Twitter @BobbiRebell and PM me what you want to see more of because we're making big changes here at Financial Grownup. And thank you to Ameliora's Adrienne Kronovet for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK Media production.

Serial entrepreneur Lindsey Holden, who is the CEO and Co-Founder of the personal finance app The Long Game, literally played the long game when she spent 5 years living in her family’s veterinary office, to pay off her student loans and build a solid financial foundation. 

In Lindsay’s money story you will learn:

-Why she lived at her family’s veterinary office for 5 years

-Some of the unique experiences she had and what, if anything she would do differently

-How to come up with creative solutions to financial problems

-Tips on how to pay off student debt

In Lindsay’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to stick to your convictions and deflect judgement when making personal money decisions

-Why Lindsay considers herself a minimalist spender

In Lindsay’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to leverage coupon codes using Google ads to get discounts on services like Uber and more.

In My Take you will learn:

-How using gamification can motivate you to save and encourage better money habits

-How to get the most out of a rewards programs

Bobbi and Lindsay also talk about:

-How Lindsay’s app The Long Game works

-Lindsay’s experiences as a serial entrepreneur

EPISODE LINKS

Uber

Google Adwords

Cryptocurrency

https://www.longgame.co/ 

Follow Lindsay!

Twitter @linzor1

Linked In @LindsayHolden

Follow Long Game 

Twitter: @LongGame

Instagram: @LongGameSavings

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Lindsey Holden:
It's kind of like a sitcom story, right? You're like, "Yeah, I'm actually living at a veterinarian office," which is really weird and also kind of hilarious for your dating life.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson. And then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, hope that little teaser at the top got you curious. This story is one-of-a-kind. And it makes you think, what would you do to get yourself on solid financial footing if you had debt coming out of school? How far would you go? And for how long? And would you care what people thought?

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome to everyone, and thank you for spending time with us. We keep it short here, around 15 minutes, flex time for podcasts. If you find value, the only payment that we ask is that you share it with friends, the ones you care about, the ones you want to live a richer life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Lindsey Holden. She is the CEO and founder of Long Game, which is a personal app that uses games and rewards to incentivize financial habits. All of us could use a little extra motivation. And Lindsey was certainly motivated to get her financial life in order. Great story, my friends. Here is Lindsey Holden.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Lindsey Holden, you're a Financial Grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Lindsey Holden:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the Long Game. You're certainly in it for the long haul. This is not even your first company.

Lindsey Holden:
Yeah, we built a financial app, so we're an FDIC insured savings account. That have games on top, and you can win up to a million dollars on our app for saving your own money.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's awesome. Let's talk about your money story, because that has to do with building a base to now have the kind of success that you're seeing. You kind of took a step back at one point, to make sure you have that firm foundation, and it had to do with sharing a bathroom with 40 people for about five years? Am I getting that right?

Lindsey Holden:
Yes you are. Let me tell you a little more about that. After leaving college, I had a graduate degree. I had also, major student loans, like a lot of people today. And, I had a job offer in San Francisco, which is a very expensive place to live, and my finances are tight. My father owns a veterinary hospital in San Francisco. So I decided to move into a veterinary hospital, in a room in the back, where I did share a bathroom with 40 people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Explain more. How exactly did that work? Were there 40 people living there?

Lindsey Holden:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't think so.

Lindsey Holden:
It was a place of work. Essentially, my bathroom was also shared by the people that work there. And there're specific hours, obviously, where it was much more comfortable to take a shower or whatever it was. But it was kind of a silly thing, but it was a really long period of my life. I had lived there from, I'm embarrassed to say, five years, to pay off my student loans, and get a good start on my career. But there're a lot of silly little things, when you're there. Because you end up being part of a community in the place that you live.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, like what?

Lindsey Holden:
I lived in a room in the back of the hospital, and we had a mouse infestation. Mice, they moved into my room. I was like, "Well, we have so many cats here." So I went downstairs and basically said, "Hey, can I borrow a cat for a minute?" And they're obviously like, "No, you cannot. You cannot take a cat."

Bobbi Rebell:
I thought they were going to say yes.

Lindsey Holden:
I know, me too. There's like a boarding cat, that wants to do some work here.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you actually accomplished quite a bit, because you did pay off your student loans.

Lindsey Holden:
Exactly, yeah. There's a lot of expectations around starting your career, and having this life that you've always imagined. I think it's really important to be practical, and not to be afraid to have creative solutions, and just develop the foundation that you need to build a life that you want.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are the specific things you did, besides not paying rent, to pay off those loans, and form that foundation? So you could go and be an entrepreneur?

Lindsey Holden:
Paying off loans is absolutely huge. Most people today, that are graduating, have student loans, about $38,000 on average. So, to build a lifestyle that you're living well within your means, when you get that first job, is just really important.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are the specific things that you did? So you lived rent-free. Were you changing the kinds of foods that you ate? Did you go out less with your friends? What other things helped you achieve that goal?

Lindsey Holden:
I'm kind of a minimalist when it comes to things, so I wasn't spending too much on extra things, and trying to really optimize my life in that way. I think that's basically a mindset and an attitude that you can get in, that's really helpful.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway lesson for our listeners?

Lindsey Holden:
The takeaway is that maybe it's not cool to move in with your parents or whatever, but don't let shame be the driver in this. I think it's ridiculous. The way to really live a cool life is to be an individual, and be responsible for the financial life that you want to live.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you ever get criticized? Or did you feel like people judged you?

Lindsey Holden:
Not criticized, but it's like a sitcom story, right? You're like, "Yeah, I'm actually living at a veterinarian office," which is really weird and also kind of hilarious for your dating life, as you can imagine. But I just owned it because it was something that, I really care about building the foundation that you need to have the career that you want. And the people that love you, really start to think that's cool too.

Lindsey Holden:
I've had flowers delivered to the front desk there, before. So all the people that work there, just knew my social life.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your every day money tip. You have one of the most creative ways I have ever heard of, to really leverage reward codes.

Lindsey Holden:
This one's fun. You know, there're a lot of referral programs out there. When you're playing on the internet a lot, you find creative ways to use these. And one of the things that I did when I was living at veterinary hospital was to run Google AdWords against my Uber code. This can be done with any other referral program, but essentially, the link that you're using is your referral link. And then, you're able to get the money from the referral, which ended up being credits for Uber. It was just a fantastic way to get some free rides around the city.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about the Long Game. So, as I mentioned earlier, this is not your very first venture. You're an experienced entrepreneur. Tell us more about the Long Game.

Lindsey Holden:
Like I said, Long Game is a gamified financial app. We're trying to make banking into a wonderful, joyous experience. And we do that through use of games. A lot of those games are games of chance, where you can win up to a million dollars. But you can also win cryptocurrency in our app. We're always talking to our users and finding out what rewards they want to see in our app. And then using those to help people build a financial foundation that they need.

Bobbi Rebell:
So specifically, how does it work?

Lindsey Holden:
So you download an app, where Long Game, obviously on Google Play and the App Store. You get a FDIC insured savings account. Then, as you save in that savings account, we reward you with games. And you can choose which game you'd like to play. Some of our games are instant win, some of them are a weekly drawing. But they're all giving you a chance where you can win cash. And, the more you save, the more games you can play.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you come up with this?

Lindsey Holden:
It came from an idea that's called Prize-Linked Savings. It's usually run by financial institutions, or governments, actually, for bonds. But, it's offline, you basically deposit in an account, and there's a monthly raffle, generally. So we've taken that idea, and brought it into an app form, and made it much more engaging and accessible.

Bobbi Rebell:
And tell us more about the future. I know you're always coming up with new games. What can we expect to see next?

Lindsey Holden:
Not only are we coming up with new games, new rewards, all the time, new characters in our app. We're also adding financial products. So, Long Game hopes to be the financial hub that can help you with all your financial needs, in a rewarded way. So you can imagine us later, online banking, letting you pay down your loans, and that sort of thing. And then giving you rewards for completing those actions.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's the biggest prize that anyone has won?

Lindsey Holden:
It's a thousand dollars.

Bobbi Rebell:
A thousand dollars is the most you've given away?

Lindsey Holden:
A lot of people have won a thousand dollars, actually. We've given away over a hundred thousand dollars to-date.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome, great. Tell us where people can find out more about you and about the Long Game.

Lindsey Holden:
You can find out more about us on LongGame.co. You can download Long Game in the Google Play store, and the App Store.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, to follow you on all your socials?

Lindsey Holden:
On Twitter, I'm @linzor1. And you can find me, Lindsey Holden on the rest of them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much Lindsey. This was amazing.

Lindsey Holden:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, that was a genius money tip there. Super original for sure. DM me if you try it, and let me know how it goes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. Apps that use gamification to motivate you to adopt better financial habits, are always a good thing. In addition to, of course, checking out the Long Game, some other popular ones are Beeminder. It forces users to make a commitment to a financial goal, and to hit milestones. Now, if you don't hit them, you have to make a payment to Beeminder. Obviously, you can fake out the system, but, if you go with it, it might be just painful enough to make a difference.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another one that's a little different, is Fortune City. Along with bookkeeping and so on, to check expenses, the app has a simulation game to build and grow your own city, so it keeps it interesting. Other more traditional apps that make paying more attention to your money, more fun, and help you achieve savings goals for example, include Acorns, Stash, You Need a Budget, Thrive, and Qapital, that is, Qapital with a Q. I'm going to leave more info in the show notes, which can be found at bobbirebell.com/podcasts/lindseyholden.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Lindsey talked about sharing her Uber code through Google AdWords. We all get codes all the time. Make sure if you love a product that you use, and you recommend it to a friend, you tell them, give them your code, ask them to use your code, if they try the product. And it's fine to say, "I'll get a bonus," because almost every case, they get something too. And even if they don't, friends want to see you rewarded. So don't be shy about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And every time you sign up something new, don't forget to use a friend's code, that they can share with you. So if you know a friend uses a service, or goes to a certain exercise place, or buys a certain product, ask them, "Do you have a reward code that you can give me, because I might sign up for that as well." Just think for a moment, who you know that uses that product or service, pay forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
And with that, I want to thank all of you for sharing your time. DM me, let me know your favorite gamification apps. On Twitter, I am @bobbirebell. On Instagram, at bobbirebell1. More about the podcast, at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. And did I mention, my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup is now out in paperback. I'd love it if you pick up a copy, and maybe one for a friend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks, to the Long Game's Lindsey Holden, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Tori Dunlap saw big dollar signs when she took a new job, but the red flags she ignored during the interview process soon created an impossible situation.. and a new appreciation for the emergency fund she never thought she would have to use.

In Tori’s money story you will learn:

-Why she regretted her first job out of college

-Red flags to look for during a job interview

-How trusting her gut helped her make the right decision

In Tori’s money lesson you will learn:

-Things to consider before taking a job

-Why it's important to have an emergency fund

In Tori’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to score deals on hotels when traveling

In My Take you will learn:

-How to start an emergency fund

-What to do if you don't have the cash for an emergency fund

Bobbi and Tori also talk about:

Expedia

Rockstar Finance

EPISODE LINKS:

Check out Tori's website here: https://www.victorimedia.com/ 

Follow Tori!!

Instagram @victorimedia

Twitter @victori_media

Linked In @Tori Dunlap

Transcription

Tori Dunlap:
She just looked at me and she goes, "Are you leaving or are you staying?" And so I said, "I think it's best for both you and I if I were to move on," and she goes, "Great, your last day will be tomorrow." And I felt panicked.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, so given that you're choosing to listen to a money podcast, you probably have an emergency fund, or you know that you should have one, and hopefully are working on building one up. I'll be honest, my family's goes up and down. It's not always where I want it to be, but this story, shared with us by Victori Media's Tori Dunlap, is going to lock into your mind why so many financial experts go on and on and on and on about that darn emergency fund. Special welcome to our new listeners, so glad you found us and that you are here and to our regulars, we appreciate your support, you're everything to us, so please continue to listen to the show and to support it by telling friends that you think deserve to live a richer life. Maybe do a quick screenshot and post it on social media, make sure you tag me at Bobbi Rebell on Twitter, at Bobbi Rebell one on Instagram, so I can thank you and on that note to our inspiring guest, Tori Dunlap.

Bobbi Rebell:
She is the force behind a new blog, Victori Media, which focuses on career and personal advice for millennials that, as you will hear, is already drawing a lot of attention because it's just really good. Here is Tori Dunlap.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Tori Dunlap, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast!

Tori Dunlap:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You came to my attention because you have been nominated at the only awards that count, of course, the [inaudible 00:02:10] awards, as best new blog and then I was checking out your blog and I had to have you on the podcast. So thank you for being here.

Tori Dunlap:
It's been so awesome. This is my first spin con, and obviously my first nomination, my first kind of finalist opportunity, so yeah, I'm just over the moon, thrilled.

Bobbi Rebell:
We are joined, because I am of course honored that this podcast was nominated as best new podcast, so we'll be up there with the newbies the two of us, hanging out I think. Woo hoo.

Tori Dunlap:
It'll be great.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. You brought with you a money story that I found a little bit shocking, but maybe it's not as unusual in the millennial world, I'm a gen X-er. But maybe it's not that unusual because you kinda just went with your gut. Tell us, Tori.

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, so I took a job for the money and ended up regretting it very very hard.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me just interject one thing though, a lot of the time jobs are about money. You should take a job that pays enough money. It shouldn't be just about the money, but money does matter.

Tori Dunlap:
Oh totally. Yeah. I mean if jobs didn't pay us money we wouldn't show up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly, so it's okay to take jobs for the money but clearly there was something else going on that didn't work.

Tori Dunlap:
Totally, yeah, so I was looking to get out of my first job right out of school and I realized I wasn't growing, I wasn't learning anything. I wasn't feeling challenged in the way that I wanted to.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of job was it? What were you doing?

Tori Dunlap:
I worked ... I actually ended up leading digital marketing and communication for this global security company, so my job right outta college, I was the only marketing, communication, or PR person for this 5000 employee company. So it was really crazy and I just knew being kind of this team of one, there wasn't a lot of growth trajectory for me there. So after about a year and a half I knew it was time to leave and I got approached by this recruiter who told me this job that sounded perfect on paper. It was a digital marketing manager role, which is what I know, what I'm good at, what I love.

Tori Dunlap:
I came in to interview and something in my gut just didn't feel right, the office was like half office half showroom. Everybody there, they weren't really talking to each other, there was only about 12 people in the office. But I'm a really social person so that was kind of a red flag for me, but I went in and interviewed anyway and I interviewed with the woman who was to be my boss and she was the CEO of the company. Within about 10 minutes of that interview she offered me the job on the spot, which again was kind of a red flag, I'm like, I know I'm awesome but don't you wanna ask me more questions?

Bobbi Rebell:
Were they desperate? What was going on?

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, that was definitely what it was and so I didn't know this at the time, but the position had been open for about seven months. So they were really looking to find somebody. She asked me what my salary range was, and I knew in order to make a leap from my previous job, where I had just received a 20% raise, I knew it was going to have to be another jump up, so I asked for 20% more than what I was already making, expecting it was going to be a negotiation, expecting she'd counter. And she just agreed, and she said, "Well this is 20 thousand more than we paid the last person, but we really like you and we really want you to jump on board."

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is really flattering.

Tori Dunlap:
Oh so flattering, especially for me, and a lot of us struggle, especially-

Bobbi Rebell:
How old were you?

Tori Dunlap:
I was 23.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Tori Dunlap:
A lot of young women, especially when you suffer from imposter syndrome, and so it was something that was validating but also scary and also just overwhelming and exciting. I went home and I talked it over with my daily who I'm really close to and close friends and I couldn't put my finger on why, just my gut was telling me, no this is not for you. You're not gonna be happy here, this is not the environment that you will thrive in.

Tori Dunlap:
But I saw dollar signs and I couldn't say no. So I ended up accepting the job. Went in, by day two I knew it wasn't going to be a right fit. I ended up leaving the office, calling my mom and saying, "Hey mom, I don't think I'm gonna be able to do this." And like all good moms do, she's like, "Stick it out, it'll get better, it'll be fine." It ended up just being a really really unhealthy work environment. I had really negative interactions with my boss, I was crying myself to sleep at night, I was scared I was going to be fired. I was tasked with these really demanding, overwhelming workload that wasn't feasible for one person to do. I wasn't happy. I wasn't healthy, I wasn't thriving, I wasn't feeling fulfilled at all.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is a lot more than just not being fulfilled. This is really, this is your life. You can't be in that kind of situation.

Tori Dunlap:
And I knew in my gut the entire time, my gut was telling me, "This is not for you. This is not for you. This is not what you want. This is not where you should be." And I didn't listen because I was dreaming about how much I was going to be able to save for retirement and like a New Zealand vacation I was going to be able to take and all these things. So I ended up having to quit that job. Basically because it was so unhealthy after about two and a half months without another job lined up, which is the ultimate personal-

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me about quitting. How did you quit?

Tori Dunlap:
She was kind of pushing me out. So I knew if I didn't quit first it wasn't gonna be good, it was gonna be pretty ugly and I didn't wanna go through that. So I had this huge project that I wasn't trained on, I ended up finishing it even though she was kinda rooting against me, which was a horrible feeling and had the project finished by 8:30 am on a Thursday. I went into her office an hour and a half later, and she just looked at me and she goes, "Are you leaving or are you staying?"

Bobbi Rebell:
She knew. She knew. Wow.

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. So I said, "I think it's best for both you and I if I were to move on," and she goes, "Great. Your last day will be tomorrow." I felt panicked talking to my family. My parents, of course, were really worried. I'm an only child, so they're very involved in my life and especially my finances and so they were really worried for me. I knew it was the right decision and I felt so much relief when I walked out of there at three o'clock on a Friday.

Tori Dunlap:
Even though I didn't have a job I luckily had an emergency fund, which is something that I really advocate for. I had enough money that I could survive while I found a new job, but I felt such relief being able to be happy and just leave and to not have to worry anymore.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm happy that you had the strength to do that because it is a brave thing. And it's scary. What is the takeaway for our listeners?

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, I would say trust your gut first off. Just understand that, of course, a job at the end of the day is about making an income but it's also where you spend eight plus hours of your day for five days a week around people you hopefully like and respect and with a manager who hopefully likes and respects you and vice versa. So make sure you're trusting your gut in any sort of situation, but especially through a job application and a job interview process.

Tori Dunlap:
And second, make sure you have an emergency fund, whether it's needing to get out of a bad situation in a job or needing to leave a partner who you live with or anything that is an emergency, you getting unexpectedly ill or you get a flat tire, having an emergency fund is so important to be able to give you the freedom to make decisions that you wouldn't be able to if you didn't have one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your everyday money tip because it's perfect for people that love to travel and travel well. Because part of growing up is not always having to stay at the youth hostel or the budget hotel, whatever. Sometimes you're ready to be in the grownup hotel.

Tori Dunlap:
We're gonna go in a completely different direction here. Much more positive and exciting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Much more positive.

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. But one of my favorite money tips that a lot of people don't realize is, you and I were both talking before, we really like luxury boutique hotels, for me they're just a great way to see a new city or to just get a different perspective from a chain hotel. But they're often expensive and people often use third party sites like Expedia or orbits to book on. And that's great, but usually what happens is they actually don't give you the best rate, and that surprises a lot of people. So if you go to the hotel's website or if you call them directly, they usually offer you a discount or some sort of perk, like free valet parking or a free breakfast because you're booking directly with them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because they pay those sites a commission, they have an incentive to have you book directly.

Tori Dunlap:
Totally. And you're supporting the local business in a way that you aren't if you're booking with Expedia or one of those other sites. So that's a really fantastic way to support that city, support that local business, and to also, hopefully, get a perk out of it as well.

Tori Dunlap:
And if something were to happen as far as needing to change your booking or an emergency comes up, the hotel itself is a lot more flexible. If you try to call Expedia you're waiting on hold forever and they're usually more stringent with their cancellation policies so you're not the hotel's customer until you're actually in the hotel if you book with one of those third party sites. So booking directly just makes the whole process way easier and then hopefully saves you money or gives you some sort of perk as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, that's really interesting that the hotel doesn't really engage with you until you're there if you book through the third party systems. I never really thought about it like that, but it makes a lot of sense.

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, it's a great tip.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, so I am new to your blog, but I am also getting a little bit obsessed with it. Some of the headlines, just for people to know, alright, Five Ways to Combat Imposter Syndrome, so relatable, Four Lessons I Learned From Rap Songs, not relatable 'cause I don't listen to rap but definitely got me curious. And then I think my favorite one on there was 17 Ways to Be Productive at Work When You Have Nothing to do, 'cause this happened. One of my jobs early in my career I tend to be a bit of a workaholic and sometimes my coworkers don't have the same enthusiasm for their jobs and I would finish a story early and wanna just do more stories, just because. And my coworkers didn't wanna do that. So I would be left sitting there, kind of lost, because I wanted to do more stuff. So tell me more about that article and maybe some of your other favorite ones, and the blog in general.

Tori Dunlap:
I write about personal finance and career for millennial women, a lot of the blog content that you see is written by me, and I also bring in different voices so actually most of the articles you listed were some of my really great female friends who are also writing about career and finance and so I really try and bring in different perspectives too so it's not just me droning on and on. But I love talking about negotiation so I have some negotiating posts on there, like exact scripts to use when you're calling third party sites, kind of like we mentioned or when you're negotiating a cable bill or a phone bill, the exact script to use, that's something I really love doing.

Tori Dunlap:
Summer's over now, but it's good all year round, I just wrote a post about financial to dos that you can complete over the summer. So give yourself a three month period and they're really easy, really actionable as far as checking them off as you go, and then yeah, I just sourced one of my favorite articles that I've written recently, I sourced from Rockstar Finance, just a bunch of different texts from people about a way to manage your finances in under 10 minutes. So again, super actionable, easy to do and that was inspired by a post I myself wrote about 11 ways to better your finances in under five minutes, so especially for us millennials, if your finances are sort of out of control or it seems overwhelming, it's hard to get started. It's hard to start chipping away at that iceberg. But these small little things that you can do that take no more than five 10 minutes a day is a great way to get started.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, Rockstar Finance is another great website. So alright, so tell us more about where to find out ... where to find the blog and where to follow you on all the socials.

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. So my name is Tori so Victori Media is spelled with an I, V-I-C-T-O-R-I media.com and you can connect with me there. Find all the blog content as well as all the social media accounts are liked to Victori Media, so I'd love to have you stop by.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you Tori!

Tori Dunlap:
Thank you so much for having me Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone. Let's talk about emergency funds, and if you don't have the cash to fund the three to six months many experts recommend, what do you do? Financial Grownup tip number one, if you don't have the cash for an emergency fund needed and want to make sure you have access to cash at a reasonable interest rate homeowners can get something called a heloc, that's a home equity line of credit, now you have to take this out before you need it. That's the key thing, but it will give you a financial life line if needed. And except for any fees to set it up, if you don't use it you're not paying interest, so it can just be there if and when you need it, and hopefully that'll be never.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, Tori talked about booking hotels directly with the actual hotel, I've recently started deliberately booking flights directly with airlines. I do my research and I google flights, and third party services like Expedia, but I actually try to book directly on the airlines that way if a change is needed or there are changes in weather, what have you, I found the airline is better able to help you if you're in their system directly. In general, unless a third party middle man is bringing you real value, there's no real downside to cutting them out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright thanks to all of you that have subscribed. The show is free to you. But for us, to keep at it, we do need your support, so please do all the things, subscribe, rate, review, and most of all, let people know about us by recommending to friends. And if you haven't read my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup, it just got more affordable because it just came out in paperback, so please check it out. And while you're at it, tell your friends to check out Victori Media, and thanks to Tori Dunlap for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK media production.

This episode with Her Money podcast host and Today Show financial editor Jean Chatzky is about getting the most value for your work. 

In Jean’s money story you will learn

-the impact her divorce had on her financial strategy

-how the loss of her dad changed her perspective on money

-the loss of her job and the career change that followed

-how to assess your financial needs, especially your savings goals

-how focusing on her money created emotional and psychological security

-her  post-divorce college savings plan pivot

 

In Jean’s lesson you will learn:

-how to evaluate your financial needs at different life stages

-which professional advisors she has used at key points in her life

-how to know what to charge clients for your professional services or products

-why and how she shares information about pricing

 

In her money tip you will learn:

-the power of automatic savings

-mental accounting and why it works for her

-using different pools of money for different goals

-guilt free spending

 

In my take you will learn:

-my advice on knowing your worth in the market

-why socializing and making friends in person and online is key to growing your business

-Why you must choose clients that value your work

-How to deal with clients that lowball you on price

-How to grow low paying clients into higher paying ones

Links related to this episode

The Today Show

Jean Chatzky

Her Money with Jean Chatzky

Stacy Tisdale

---

Transcription

Jean Chatzky:
We were talking about how much we charge for speeches and creating content for various people and various companies. In the last year, I've become much more conscious of sharing these kinds of numbers with people in my circle, because this is the way we are all going to get paid more.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was NBC today show financial editor Jean Chatzky, host of the Her Money podcast, and author of countless bestselling books, most recently Age Proof. The clip is part of the lesson that she will share with us, in just a few minutes, about getting paid more. But first, we are going to start with her money story, which has to do with a rocky time in Jean's life, and how she found financial security. Here is Jean Chatzky.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jean Chatzky, financial grownup, welcome to the program.

Jean Chatzky:
Thank you Bobbi, so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, and happy 2018, and happy almost 100 episodes of Her Money. Congratulations.

Jean Chatzky:
Thank you, and congratulations on the launch of this podcast, I think it's so much fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, it's been quite a year. I remember I think my second time ever as a guest was on Her Money, so it holds a very special place in my heart, and it's really just wonderful content that you're bringing to people, so thank you for that.

Jean Chatzky:
Sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
And everyone of course should check out Her Money.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you have brought with you a really important and compelling money story. Do tell.

Jean Chatzky:
I feel like I was thrust into the real world of financial grownups when I got divorced.

Bobbi Rebell:
And how old were you?

Jean Chatzky:
I was about 40. I mean that's when it hit, and it hit at a time when a lot of things hit. I lost my dad, who had been sick for a while. I got fired from Money Magazine, I mean they didn't actually say fired, but that's what happens when you get laid off. I had to take a whole new look at my life, knowing that I was going to be doing it on my own, knowing that I was going to be a freelancer rather than an employee, starting a business, maybe hiring my own employees.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which you have now.

Jean Chatzky:
Which I have now. And all of it caused me to really take a hard look at the inflows and outflows of money, at what I really needed. And most importantly, at what I needed to meet my savings goals, because when I got divorced, I started saving money like crazy, because nothing else made me feel as safe, and I was not feeling particularly safe in the world at that point.

Jean Chatzky:
And so it took the form of doing everything from buying a smaller house than I could really afford, and just shoving more money every single month into savings, to starting new college accounts for my kids, because the plan that my ex-husband and I had about how we were going to pay off the mortgage and then use that money to pay for college had gone out the window, to really taking a closer look at all of the bills every single month, and seeing what was not necessary.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you weren't doing that before?

Jean Chatzky:
I was doing it, but I wasn't doing it in such a diligent and type A way. I was saving up to the guidelines that I give people, but I just wanted to do more. That's what made me feel safe, was not shoes in the closet, it was just money in the bank.

Jean Chatzky:
So my lesson is a little bit different from that story, but no matter what stage you're at in life, we all need help. And I think asking for help, which I did during that period in my life, from financial advisors, from lawyers, from estate planners, from friends who had been through it before me. We've got to ask for help to figure out how to chart the right course at the right time.

Jean Chatzky:
And I thought about this lesson because I had lunch yesterday with Stacey Tisdale, who is another financial expert/journalist/colleague, who you should absolutely have on this show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely.

Jean Chatzky:
And we were talking about how much we charge for speeches and creating content for various people and various companies. In the last year, I've become much more conscious of sharing these kinds of numbers with people in my circle, because this is the way we are all going to get paid more. And doing this feels to me like we are really helping each other.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give me a money tip, something that you are using yourself, with your family, that is really making a difference, that people can implement right now.

Jean Chatzky:
Going back to what I told you about saving like a crazy person around the time of my divorce, I save automatically for every goal, even the small ones.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you separate different accounts you mean?

Jean Chatzky:
I separate. I am a huge believer in mental accounting for which Richard Thaler just won a Nobel prize. I find when you have different pools of money for different things, it's easier to reach your goals. I've got a big trip coming up, I've got that money isolated. I'm saving ahead of time, and it means I will not be looking at big credit card bills that I don't have money to pay off, after that trip happens.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it also takes away the guilt of feeling like maybe I shouldn't treat myself to this trip, because the money is there for that.

Jean Chatzky:
Absolutely. And it doesn't matter if it's a trip, or a handbag, or a spa weekend, or college. Just knowing this is the job that this money has been set aside to do is really, really helpful.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great advice, thank you Jean Chatzky.

Jean Chatzky:
Sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that advice about pricing. Information is power when it comes to pricing your services, especially as we seem to move more and more into the gig economy, not to mention side hustles.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm going to just expand on Jean's great advice about knowing what you're worth in the market and getting it. Financial grownup tip number one, get social. Think of others in your field not as the competition, but as your teammates, your allies. Spend time with your people. This can be in person, like Jean does, or even online. There are countless groups these days, especially for example on Facebook, where you can ask people specifically what do they charge?

Bobbi Rebell:
They may not say it publicly in the App itself, but a lot of people are willing to DM you with some actual numbers and helpful tips about what you can and should be charging.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, do not work with clients that don't value your work, aka don't pay you enough. Good clients want you to stay in business, that can't happen if you are in a race to the bottom with price. If someone does not want to pay the right price to work with you, odds are this is not the last argument you're going to have with them. If they truly have a budget that is still too small, see if you can limit the scope of what you're doing. If you believe they're going to grow into a client that can eventually afford you, make a judgment call. But make it clear that you are working below rate, and that the numbers are unsustainable and need to grow when their business grows.

Bobbi Rebell:
If it really can't work, consider referring them out to someone who does work with people with smaller budgets. They will appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for listening to this episode of Financial Grownup. We are loving all the amazing feedback. Please subscribe, share, rate, review. It matters, and is truly appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is a BRK media production.

Dad Dave Ramsey taught Rachel Cruze the basics of money and staying out of debt, but that did not keep her from wanting to splurge before she had the cash to afford it.

In Rachel’s story you will learn

-The dinner party conversation that had her questioning her values

-What it was like growing up in the Dave Ramsey household

-The way she and her siblings earned money as kids

-The quote that helped her find the right decision to her money dilemma

In Rachel’s money lesson you will learn:

-Rachel’s advice on how to decide on whether to splurge on expensive luxury goods

-Rachel’s perspective on how to manage social media created wants

-How to live your age-appropriate life, no matter what your friends are doing

In Rachel’s money tip you will learn:

-The importance of being intentional with  your money

-Her monthly technique to create a budget

-Planning for taxes

-How limits and boundaries can help you take control of your finances

-Her recommendation to use Everydollar free app for budgeting

In My Take you will learn:

-How to live your age-appropriate financial life

-How to afford luxury items on a budget

-How to keep instagram-envy in perspective

Episode links

Rachel’s website: https://www.rachelcruze.com

Everydollar budgeting app

The Rachel Cruze Show

Rachel’s book: Love Your Life, Not Theirs

Rachel’s book: Smart Money Smart Kids

Bag Borrow or Steal

Use this link for RenttheRunway and you will get $30 off your first order (and I get $30 too!) 

ArmGem.com

Bagtropolis.com

MonLuxe.com

Bagdujour.com

Bagromance.com

Follow Rachel!

Instagram @rachelcruze

Twitter @rachelcruze

Facebook: Rachel Cruze

YouTube channel

Some fun stories on renting handbags:

I own nothing

7 places  where you can rent designer handbags

High Fashion Designer  Dress & Handbag Rentals- Worth the Money?

---

Transcription

Rachel Cruze:
We went out to dinner with Mom and Dad and my mom was like, "Oh Rachel, I got this great new purse! You would love it." And so she held it up and I remember thinking, "Oh it's so beautiful. I want one!"

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So, did our guest go get that purse that she really wanted? I'll give you a hint, her parents are Dave and Sharon Ramsey. Yeah, that Dave Ramsey. But then again, her mom had one. That got you thinking right? Well, Rachel Cruze did grow up in the Ramsey household. At the time of her birth, her family was actually in financial peril, so the values and belief system that she has now came from years of hard work that she grew up watching.

Bobbi Rebell:
So anyway, even if you already follow Rachel Cruze and you're a fan, maybe you've read her book, Love Your Life, Not Theirs, this is a story that you probably have not heard before, and I'm going to bet you're going to want to discuss with your friends afterwards and really think about what would you do? Here is Rachel Cruze.

Bobbi Rebell:
Rachel Cruze! You are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Rachel Cruze:
Hey Bobbi, thank you! Thanks for having me on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all the amazing things happening in your life, not the least of which is your seven-month-old daughter.

Rachel Cruze:
Yes, I know. We now have two little girls in the house, which is just nuts. But yeah, so she's seven months now, Caroline. I mean, if you're a parent you know how fast time flies and it's such a cliché, but it's so true.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, it's so true. But at least now with all of our digital media, one major plus is we document it so much.

Rachel Cruze:
That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:
So we can see what goes on.

Rachel Cruze:
Thousands of pictures, for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm really excited to deep dive right into your money story, because it also has to do with parenting and sort of looking up at your parents and seeing all of their accomplishments, but then maybe translating appropriately to your life. You went out to dinner with your parents maybe a few years into your marriage? Tell us the story.

Rachel Cruze:
Yes. Okay, so you have to understand that I grew up in Dave Ramsey's household, okay? So debt was like a four-letter word. If you don't have the money, you don't buy it. And we worked hard as kids, we were never given money. So we were never on allowance, we were always on commission. So you work, you get paid, you don't work-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, you were on commission?

Rachel Cruze:
Commission, yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is something you would get commission for?

Rachel Cruze:
Oh gosh. Cleaning your room, feed the dog, running the vacuum, helping put laundry away, like chores around the house is what we'd get paid on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, so that's the world I grew up in. So you kind of have to understand that for this story. So, fast forward many years, I was out to dinner with my parents. My husband and I had been married at that point, probably about two years, so this was around 2011. We were working hard, we were a few years into both of our new careers and getting paid like the bottom. I mean, we were maybe making like 35,000 a year. I don't know what it was, but it was like-

Bobbi Rebell:
But age-appropriate.

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, totally! I mean, we're early 20's, that's the reality. You're in an entry-level job and that's what you're doing. And so we went out to dinner with Mom and Dad, and my mom was like, "Oh Rachel, I got this great new purse! You would love it." And so she held it up and I remember thinking, "Oh, it's so beautiful. I want one."

Bobbi Rebell:
Describe it, what was it?

Rachel Cruze:
It was black and it was the type of bag that ... I won't throw the brand name out there, but it was like the square, where it was stiff. Does that make sense? Like it held its form when you set it down.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. It was super fancy.

Rachel Cruze:
So nice and just beautiful, yeah. And I thought, "Oh, I need a new purse. I've been working hard for two years, right? I deserve a nice purse!" So we went home that night, and I went and looked it up online because I told myself, "I think I could buy this," and I saw the price tag, and I almost passed out. So like, "What? Oh my goodness. No, I don't have the money to pay for that." And I had kind of this pity party for about five minutes there, on my laptop, of thinking, "But we work so hard." And then I had to stop, and I shook myself, and I was like, "Rachel, no. Your parents are 30 years ahead of you. You're in your early 20's." And it just reminded me of the quote from Larry Burkett where he said that we spend the first five to seven years of our marriages trying to obtain the same standard of living as our parents.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes!

Rachel Cruze:
But it took our parents 30 years to get there. Yeah, so it was just that reminder of, you know what, when you're young, no matter where you are in life, I'll say that, but when you're being wise with money, sometimes it's going to cause you to say no to things. And it's like, "Okay, no. I can't afford that right now," but I'm saying no in the present so that I can say yes in the future. That I can make a wiser purchase later when we actually have the money and it's not a huge percentage of our net worth, which it would have probably been at that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, so it was just one of those moments of thinking, "Okay, I'm going to have to say no to myself and it's not fun." But fast forward now Bobbi, six, seven years, now I'm like, "Okay, I could probably get a similar type of handbag now and that's okay, you know? Because we actually will have the money now to buy it."

Bobbi Rebell:
Although you'll probably spend it on baby stuff anyway, but ...

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, it's probably going to end up going to like a big girl bed, which is what our two year old needs right now, so.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's good.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for our listeners here?

Rachel Cruze:
Just to remember that wherever you are in life, you have to be confident and content in it. It's hard in our 20's, when we want things. It's hard in our 30's, when you're itching to think, "Is this all life is?" I mean, every decade's going to have its own set of problems and issues, but you have to be content no matter where you are in life, or you're going to spend yourself into a hole and constantly live with debt, and with things that you can't afford and things that you really don't need.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, your friends probably can't afford them either.

Rachel Cruze:
Exactly. But on Instagram it looks like they can.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Before I let you go, I want to get an every day money tip, something you, your family, do on an every day, or monthly, yearly, whatever. Something real and tangible that everyone can put to work right now.

Rachel Cruze:
The number one mistake people make with their money is that they're not intentional. So my money tip would be, do a budget every single month, no excuses, do a budget. Because what you're doing is you're telling your money where it's going to go before the month even begins, and so start at the beginning of every month and create your budget and stick to it. Which means that there's limits and boundaries, yes, but it's going to help you take control of your money and actually get you to where you want to go. I mean, so many of us ... Especially now in life, I'm like, we're doing our taxes and thankfully I don't have to look back and think, "Oh my gosh, where did all my money go?" No, because we were very, very deliberate and intentional.

Rachel Cruze:
And it takes some mistakes and it's going to take a little while to get used to it, but give yourself a good three months to get your budget to start working and stick to it. You can download EveryDollar, it's a free budgeting app and it's awesome to help you get started if you've never done a budget before. But being intentional with where your money goes is tip number one, by far.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. And I will put a link to EveryDollar in the show notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Finally, tell us what you're up to. I know you're back from maternity leave, you've got your show, I adore the first four episodes so far. What's coming up next?

Rachel Cruze:
Yes, well thank you. Yeah, well the show, The Rachel Cruze Show, is one that I am so excited about. We did four episodes right before I went on maternity leave and we're actually finishing up episode one today, we're filming some of it today, which is so fun. So it will be out on YouTube and Facebook, so you can follow and subscribe to both of those, and it will be really just this 30-minute show compact with guests and content and segments all around how money fits into your life, but we have fun with it. I mean, there's fashion tips, there's cooking tips, I mean, it's basically how do you live your life well and be wise with your money all at the same time. And so it's been a really fun project to work on and one that we're continuing to do, which is great, for the ongoing foreseeable future. So I'm really excited about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I will tell everyone, they're really well produced, this is coming from a former TV producer. They are really put together very well, very watchable. You'll probably end up binging, so just leave enough time to invest in watching the episodes because they really are terrific and they really are put together well.

Rachel Cruze:
Well thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And great for, especially for moms, but really for anyone. Even cooking tips, baby tips, big kid tips, everything, it's just terrific. So thank you so much. And where can people find you, in terms of social media and all that stuff?

Rachel Cruze:
Yes, @rachelcruze and it's C-R-U-Z-E. So Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, I'm all there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Rachel Cruze, this has been great.

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah. Thanks Bobbi, thanks for having me on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, who has not wanted that fancy purse a friend or a relative has? We're all guilty of that. Even maybe we saw it in an ad or on social media, but as Rachel pointed out so well, her parents are at a totally different life stage. So Financial Grownup tip number one, live your age-appropriate financial life. If you're an empty nester for example, with a comfortable retirement nest egg, pun intended, and it allows for, say, super fancy handbags or some other luxury splurge, go for it. But if you are one of the millions of people just starting out your adult financial life, or maybe you're also new parents, or you have typical early-career income for someone in their 20's, maybe early 30's, and you have goals, like paying off debt or saving for a down payment for a home, maybe you have young kids. You have age-appropriate financial realities and that's okay, don't beat yourself up about it, you're doing great. If you really want a fancy handbag for some event, or just to have around for a little bit, you could rent at places like Bag Borrow or Steal, or Rent the Runway.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, social media driven envy is a real thing, we're all human. Whether it's a friend's vacation photos or they just always look so put together, don't make assumptions, live in your own world. That's something Rachel talks about in her book, Love Your Life, Not Theirs. So many young people are now coming forward admitting they literally do things, literally go on vacation, on trips, they buy specific items, to make their life seem Instagram-worthy. Friends, you have better things to do. And by the way, all those cool things may not even be theirs. You'd be surprised how many people are on the rental bandwagon, so maybe get on it. Or maybe just do without it completely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all so much for your support and feedback. I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, reviewed the podcast, it's amazing. Thank you in advance for anyone who now goes, hint hint, and maybe takes the time to write a review, subscribes and so on. And also, I really enjoy hearing from you, so thank you to those of you who have been communicating through Instagram and Twitter, Facebook and so on. Keep doing that, I'm on twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and of course go to my website, bobbirebell.com, and sign up for my newsletter so I can keep everyone posted on what's going on with the podcast. Rachel's story was so great, I hope you guys enjoyed it as much as I did, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Refinery 29’s work and money vertical editor Lindsey Stanberry and her frugal husband were checking all the boxes as financial grownups. But when they had a child, the new parents found themselves scrambling to make sense of their new urge to splurge. 

In Lindsey's money story you will learn:

-The financial changes that come with having children

-How to adapt a budget when financial values change

-Tips on how make career decisions while balancing a family

In Lindsey's money lesson you will learn:

-How big changes impact little everyday purchases 

-Two of Lindsey's biggest financial regrets

In Lindsey's every day money tip you will learn:

-The benefits of a high-yield savings account

-The app she uses to sell her clothes and make extra cash

Bobbi and Lindsey also talk about

-Her new book Money Diaries

-What women are spending their money on right now

-The Money Diaries series updated regularly on Refinery 29

In My Take you will learn:

-Ways to save money on baby clothes

-Travel more! Ways to plan amazing trips whether you have kids or not

EPISODE LINKS

https://www.refinery29.com/

Follow Lindsey!

Instagram @lestanberry

Twitter @lestanberry

Follow Refinery 29!

Instagram @refinery29

Twitter @refinery29

Facebook @Refinery29

Check out the companies Lindsey mentioned! 

Poshmark 

Capital One 

Trader Joes 

Bank of America 

---

Transcription

Lindsey Stanber:
He has said to me recently he would spend all the money on our kid if we needed to. But that doesn't stop him from being slightly annoyed when I pick out organic hot dogs that we will probably throw away because our son will not eat them.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Refinery29 Money Diaries author Lindsey Stanberry talking about how her natural instinct to always save money took a nose dive after the birth of her son. I think a lot of new parents can relate to this, feeling like they would spend their very last penny on their kid even if things were very different before baby.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. We keep the show short, about 15 minutes, because you're busy, but if you have a little more time, feel free to do a little bit of binging, and if you like the show, maybe do a screen grab and share it so we can grow the podcast. And speaking of growing the podcast, big news, Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast for the Plutus Awards which celebrate excellence in money content. So thank you for all of your support.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the paperback of my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup, is coming out in October. So if you have not had a chance to read it, I hope you'll check it out, and again, share with someone you care about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Refinery29 Money Diaries and our amazing guest, Lindsey Stanberry. Now, the book grew out of Refinery29's popular series by the same name and gives a very detailed, and I mean detailed, look of the spending habits of millennial women. The stories are jaw dropping. The reactions to them are dramatic in the comments. But I wanted to know more about Lindsey and her money diary stories so I pushed her to talk about something that she has yet to reveal, and that is money life after baby and what that does to one's money diary.

Bobbi Rebell:
She and her husband were the best of budgeters. They didn't eat out. They were champion savers. They bought an apartment in their 20s and were checking all the boxes on retirement and investing until they had the baby. And then it all went poof, well, not all poop, but life changed. Here is Lindsey Stanberry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Lindsey Stanberry, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Lindsey Stanber:
Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of Money Diaries so I could not have been more excited when your book Money Diaries from Refinery29 came out. Congratulations on all the early success because it just was released, and of course, it is number one new release on Amazon. Love it.

Lindsey Stanber:
Generally awesome. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you did this all in a very busy time in your life because not only are you married, you have a relatively young child, I think a one-year-old? Is that correct?

Lindsey Stanber:
Ike has just turned two.

Bobbi Rebell:
He just turned two. So happy birthday.

Lindsey Stanber:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that brings us to your money story. Do tell.

Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. So I've talked a lot of in the past about how my husband and I saved $100,000 to buy our first apartment in New York. And my husband is very frugal, and by extension, I've become more mindful of my money. Two years ago, when we had our son, we knew it was going to change our budget. We had to sell that apartment and buy a new one and start paying for child care, and we anticipated those big expenses. But I was really shocked at how my time became much more valuable than it had ever been before. And I talk about in the book this incident where my husband and I were at Trader Joe's having a fight over organic yogurt.

Lindsey Stanber:
My son is an incredibly picky eater. He has been since the moment we introduced solids. We will try everything, and we end up throwing away all that food. And it drives me absolutely crazy. And I write in the book about this experience of realizing that my time is so valuable, and I'm wiling to spend more money in ways that I never anticipated and had never before. My husband dubbed it Baby bourgeois.

Lindsey Stanber:
So it's been a weird and stressful experience for us. And I just had to kind of let go of some of that control and feel appreciative that we were so careful with our money in our 20s when we were able to just worry about ourselves.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us an example of something that you spent money on, now that you have a child, that you never would have thought have spending money on before?

Lindsey Stanber:
People think that I'm crazy but like service fees to go to the movies. We would have never in a million years paid extra money to reserve tickets online. We would specifically go early to the box office to buy the tickets, and we would save the $2. And now, it's just like well if you want to see the movie, first of all, you're going to have to find a babysitter, and that's really expensive, and then you want to make sure you can actually get into the movie. So we're pre-buying our movie tickets now, and that $2 is just out the window.

Lindsey Stanber:
But then also stuff like we would never pick up milk from the place around the corner because it was $1 more, but now we do because I want more time with my kid. I don't want to go out in the rain. I am tired after working and writing a book and taking care of a baby. But it's also made me a lot more ambitious. I care about earning money more than I have before which surprised me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us an example of that.

Lindsey Stanber:
Well, I think that when you think about things like negotiating or saying yes to something, I took on this book, which is an incredible opportunity, but I did take it on top of my regular job and on top of having a kid. And I knew I was going to have to make some sacrifices in my personal life, but I did that with the idea that this would be something that would help me grow my career, and that would ultimately be good for my family and, in theory, help me earn more money in the long run.

Lindsey Stanber:
So it's a real push pull, and I think that I am more excited about opportunities, but I'm also more careful about what I say yes to.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's interesting though also is that you and your husband don't always approach spending as parents in exactly the same way. Tell us about that.

Lindsey Stanber:
He was a reluctant parent and very open about that, and I appreciate that. He said to me recently he would spend all the money on our kid if we needed to. But that doesn't stop him from being slightly annoyed when I pick out organic hot dogs that we will probably throw away because our son will not eat them. It's been a struggle for both of us to figure out how this spending is changing.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?

Lindsey Stanber:
I think people expect those big expenses. They expect that childcare will be a huge chunk of their budget, but they don't think about the small things. I joke in the book I'm never going tell you not to buy a latte, but enjoy buying that latte and saving that money when you only have you to worry about because your finances do change so significantly when you have a kid and in a good way. I'm happy to spend my money on him. I say that in the dedication to the book. It's a joy, but it does really change things, and it's really important to talk about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there things that you look back on that you would have done differently?

Lindsey Stanber:
There's two things. I wish I had started investing earlier. I was always very nervous about the stock market, having been a young adult when the recession happened last time, and I have always felt really intimidated by that, and I wish we had been smarter and not sat on so much cash. And this is the thing that would have cost money, but I wish we had traveled more. It's expensive now to do it with a kid, and we could have done it cheaply and smartly. And we worked so hard in our 20s, and I'm really proud of the work we did, but I definitely wished we would have taken a few more vacations.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hear you. Traveling with kids and with a family is a lot. All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip because that is a way that people can pretty much instantly, at least, have a trickle more cash. Maybe a little extra money for their latte or maybe money to then move into other kinds of investments. Do tell.

Lindsey Stanber:
One thing that we recommend in the book is getting a high-yield savings account. I have a Bank of America account and a Capital One account and the differences in their 401Ks is crazy. Bank of America I think is like zero, zero, zero ... It's negligible. I get like 38 cents every quarter versus my Capital One savings account, which I think is like 1.85, and I have a nice little emergency fund in there and so I get a little bonus each month that I kind of consider my free money. My husband just bought some sunglasses, and I was like, "Oh, I think that some of our interest rate covered that. So don't worry about it," which is not necessarily the most responsible way to think about that interest rate, but it is nice to have that little extra bonus.

Lindsey Stanber:
We talk about side hustles in the book too, and that's a way that we saved a lot of money. So there's lots of little tweaks that you can make to find cash that can be used to buy that latte.

Bobbi Rebell:
What other tweaks do you have? Other ideas?

Lindsey Stanber:
I am such a fan of selling clothes on Poshmark. It's a little embarrassing. I'm totally addicted, and I use that money to buy new clothes. I'm a little bit more careful about my shopping these days because of said child.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you get your kids clothing then? Do you buy new or are you buying that off the websites? Does Poshmark do kids clothing? I know there's a lot of other ones for kids.

Lindsey Stanber:
I think they do. I don't ever buy cloths. I have two very doting grandmothers who dress him, and I never buy anything. There's a really fantastic kind of underground parent exchange at both Refinery and among my friends. So we do lots of hand-me-downs and trades. And I didn't buy a car seat for a long time because I used my boss's, and yeah, it's been great. And then I just hand that all off to other people. So clothing, my kid is cheap. It is free. Feeding him is not.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We're going to talk later. We're going to work on that food thing. I have some ideas for you about that.

Lindsey Stanber:
Okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about Money Diaries because this came out of a successful series that you have shepherded over at Refinery29. Tell us more about the book because what I love about this is it's really similar to my mission here at Financial Grownup. It's really about opening the door to very personal and candid stories about the reality of how people actually approach their money in different situations but so many universal themes.

Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. It was really important to me that this book, not shame the readers. We present Money Diaries without judgment. And the comment section on Money Diaries can be, at times, very judgmental. But for us, from Refinery perspective, we don't want you to feel bad. I think that there's so much ... Especially for women, there's a lot of guilt around both earning money and spending money, and I really wanted to get rid of that and to just really talk to our readers like you do, like a grown up, and not be condescending or a bully or make them feel bad because they like to buy a latte on their way to work every morning because they hate their job.

Lindsey Stanber:
So it's really thinking about how your spending impacts your life now and how it can impact your future, and that future doesn't need to be 100 years from now when you're retiring. It can be what you do next year or what you do five years from now.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what's interesting is that a lot of these stories reveal trends that you see, not only the stories in the book, but it's an ongoing living series on Refinery29.

Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. It's really interesting to see how women interact with their money and how there are things that are deeply personal. There are things that are ... We don't reveal anything about race or ethnic background in these or sexuality, but if you're a careful reader, you can pick up some clues. And so it's very interesting to see how a woman of color manages her money versus the famous intern who is getting $3,000 a month from her parents. It's fascinating-

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Which do get a lot of judgy comments to say the least.

Lindsey Stanber:
On both sides, they're getting judgy comments. So it's interesting. But then we do see trends like there's a lot of spending on self-care right now because people are really uncomfortable in this political climate, and we see couples struggling to figure out how they're going to manage their finances. A lot of women who are maintaining separate bank accounts and tracking every dollar that their partner spends. It's really interesting. I always say that personal finance is very personal, but there are definitely themes and things that we go back to again and again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I know you're going on a book tour so I want you to give people all the information about how they can find out about that and follow you and Refinery29 on all the socials.

Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. So you can read Money Diaries daily at Refinery29. We also have an awesome Facebook group. And of course, you can follow Refinery on Instagram and Twitter, and you can find me on Twitter and Instagram as well at lestanberry and I will be doing lots of fun stories around the book tour. I'm really exited about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you, Lindsey.

Lindsey Stanber:
Thank you so much, Bobbi. Super fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so think about what would be in your money diary and would you have the courage to share it publicly. Hm. Here's my take on what Lindsey had to say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number 1. She talked about free clothing for kids. Well in addition to the places that she mentioned, which are great, especially, grandparents, parenting Facebook groups are a great way to get not just free clothing, but also toys and furniture. Be sure to join one that is hyper local because very often the givers only ask is that you come to them and pick it up in person.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number 2. Lindsey mentioned that she regretted not traveling more before kids, and I couldn't agree more. For my family if all five us go, it is a lot. I mean breakfast alone, crazy. So another challenge is that kids have different interest, especially if you have kids that are boys versus girls or are different ages, which are spread out. That's what I have. I have older step-kids that are now in college, and then I have an 11 year old.

Bobbi Rebell:
So one idea is to do smaller, one or two kid trips. You don't all have to go. And you could have one parent go and not just two. So for example, we recently went, my husband and I, with the 11 year old to Iceland, just him. Another time, my husband took the older two kids to Washington DC when my son was younger because he wouldn't have been interested. He would have been bored to tears, but it was a great time for the older kids to go and see the nation's capitol.

Bobbi Rebell:
Each time, it was three of us on a trip, which is a lot less than five if you can imagine. And usually, at that point, you can be hotel room, which makes a huge difference. And we weren't dragging kids that didn't want to be there. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do one trip at least a year or some trips with all of you, it just doesn't have to be every trip with everyone. And the more direct one-on-one time is also really special. And when you take just some, maybe it's a good time for the kids that aren't going to spend time with other relatives like grandparents or aunts and uncles.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Show notes can be found at Bobbirebell.com/podcast/lindseystanberry where we'll have all the information that she said at the end about how to follow Money Dairies and all the places that she mentioned. Be sure to [inaudible 00:16:12] me on all the socials. I am at bobbirebell1 on Instagram, bobbirebell on Twitter. Find out more about the podcast at Bobbirebell.com/Financialgrownuppodcast, and thanks to Refinery29 Money Diaries author, Lindsey Stanberry for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownups with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Making time for face time is the best use of time for Bring Your Human to Work author Erica Keswin. She credits her biggest business successes to making the time to connect in person-even when there is no time.

In Erica’s money story you will learn:

-How face-to-face meetings have impacted Erica's business

-Hacks that create more time in your schedule 

In Erica’s money lesson you will learn:

-The benefits of being positive at work
-Strategic steps that make scheduling in person meetings easier

In Erica’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The negative side of multitasking

-The benefits of getting to know the local Starbucks barista

Bobbi and Erica also talk about:

Groups that Eat Together Perform Better Together - Cornell University Study

In My Take you will learn:

-What phubbing is and how to avoid it

-Tips to forming real connections at work

EPISODE LINKS:

Get Erica’s new book Bring Your Human To Work!

Learn more about the Spaghetti Project!

Follow Erica!!

Instagram @ericakeswin

Twitter @Erica_Keswin

Linked In @Erica Keswin 

Listen to Erica’s friend Shelley Zalis on the Financial Grownup podcast !

---

Transcription

Erica Keswin:
I didn't have time for this meeting, but by investing one hour, which then led to two hours, in that face to face meeting over breakfast, I not only gained a friend but a true business partner.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. You guys know I talk a lot about my walks with friends. Save money, save calories, and all the big ideas that come out of those walks. Today's guest, Bring Your Human to Work author Erica Keswin, is one of my favorite walking buddies, and one of my most motivating and inspiring friends. Just quickly want to welcome our newest listeners, and welcome back everyone else. We keep the shows to about 15 minutes because you're busy, but if you have a little more time, feel free to binge listen, and tell someone you care about to listen as well, so we can grow the show. Of course, please do all the things. Subscribe, rate, review. Do a screen grab if you can. Share it on social, and make sure to tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Erica Keswin. She spent years working as a consultant, partnering with top researchers, and as I personally witnessed, traveling the globe, literally, to interview the most innovative business leaders in person, and you will appreciate why that face time is priceless. IRL all the way. It matters. The result? Bring Your Human to Work: 10 Surefire Ways to Design a Workplace That's Good for People, Great for Business, and Just Might Change the World, which is endorsed by big names, including ... You ready, guys? Katie Couric, Arianna Huffington, Adam Grant, and one of my favorite authors, Charles Duhigg, who you may know as the author of The Power of Habit. This is big, guys. I'm so excited to bring you this interview. Here is Erica Keswin.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Erica Keswin. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Erica Keswin:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I just finished reading your amazing new book, Bring Your Human to Work. It is a very well-researched book, going into depth on a number of companies from JetBlue, to Rebecca Minkoff, and you brought us a money story that has to do with the theme of Bring Your Human to Work. Tell us your money story.

Erica Keswin:
Sure. Last year, I was honored by an organization with an event called 10 Women to Watch. We had our first phone call with all 10 of us about six months before the event, and we went around and introduced ourselves in alphabetical order, and the last person to go was a woman named Shelley Zalis, founder of The Girls' Lounge, and The Female Quotient, and I know she was recently on your show as well, so it's a small world. I had heard of Shelley. I knew her name, but we had never met, and never talked on the phone. When she got done with her introduction, I remember saying to myself, "Wow. This is somebody who is very aligned on so many issues, and perspectives, and things that I think about, and I can not wait to meet her in person." What I didn't know on that call is that when she heard my introduction, she actually felt the same way.

Erica Keswin:
About two months later, I found myself in Los Angeles for a series of work meetings, and I was literally back to back, but I said to myself, "You know what? This is where Shelley lives. I'm gonna reach out, send her an email, and see if she has time to grab breakfast." I did. Long story short, the next morning, we met for breakfast, and the rest is history. She shared with me that she had that same feeling when she heard my introduction. We sat there. We were gonna meet for an hour. We each had meetings. We postponed our meetings, and we ended up there probably for close to two hours in that first meeting, and since that time, we've done work together, supported each other, become friendly. I interviewed her for my book. I've spoken at a number of her Girls' Lounges, and when I walked out of that meeting, I literally said to myself, "I didn't have time for this meeting, but by investing one hour, which then led to two hours in that face to face meeting over breakfast, I not only gained a friend, but a true business partner." It's a good reminder.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because being in person does make all the difference, especially when we spend so much time, as you say, left to our own devices. That's one of my favorite Erica catch phrases.

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. Left to our own devices, we're not connecting, and we need to be intentional. I try to meet at least one or two people in person every week. I mean, you and I will go decide ... That's one of the ways we got to know each other. We decided to go for a walk.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Erica Keswin:
And we didn't need to go for [inaudible 00:05:01], but we could actually go for a walk in the park around the reservoir. I know how great it is when I meet with people face to face, and I can't do it all the time, but by carving out a chunk of my week or my month to do it, it is good for me personally, but it's also been great for my business.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it also allows a space where you know, hopefully, somebody is not multitasking, because very often when we're on these work phone calls, we are distracted. When you're in person, unless you're rude and you're looking at your phone all the time, but I know you and Shelley are not, you're actually in the moment and you're focused on what's going on with that person.

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. I mean, we've all been on those calls where you say, "Erica, what do you think?" And I say, "Wait. What?" Then we all know what I was doing, and it was not honoring that relationship and being present. The technology is designed to suck us in, but again, we need to build in that intention or it won't happen, sadly.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson, then, for our listeners? Because so many of them are saying, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't have time."

Erica Keswin:
The lesson for them is to make the time, be strategic, and I know I've used this word a few times, but it's one of the most important things that I think about, which is be intentional. Look at your week. I know many, many people, every day, they'll take 30 minutes for lunch, and they'll make their doctor's appointments for themselves, or if they have kids, make them for their kids, and sit in their office, and get through their to-do lists. You can't not do that five days a week, so maybe just pick two days where you're gonna walk down the hall, or walk outside the office and meet somebody for a cup of coffee. Fit it into your schedule. All of us can look strategically at their calendar and say to themselves, "Does my calendar match my values?" If this is important to me, you can make it happen, and whether you use a paper calendar, or Google Calendar, the data will be clear, because you can look at where and how you spent your time.

Bobbi Rebell:
All kidding aside, I mean, we absolutely are friends, and we meet to walk as friends, but we have done a lot of talking about each other's businesses. I mean, your other business, the Spaghetti Project, I remember being so excited hearing about that with another friend, Caroline, on a walk. I still remember that walk, because I remember that "aha" moment when I was, "Oh my gosh. Erica is onto something really big." And it happened on one of our walks.

Erica Keswin:
No, it did. It did. The inspiration for the Spaghetti Project came out of research I was doing for the book, and I came across this study out of Cornell University by a professor named Kevin Nixon. Kevin's father was a firefighter, and when he was getting his advanced degree, he studied firefighters and studied firehouses. What he found was that the firefighters who were the most dedicated to that longstanding tradition of the firehouse meal, sitting around the table, building trust, investing in relationships, it was highly correlated with performance, meaning they saved more lives. That was a real goosebump moment for me, and I'm not out there saying we all need to eat together all the time. I know you and I decided to walk together, but there is a correlation between investing in connection and your own personal bottom line, and that of your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
That gives me the perfect intro to your everyday money tip, because that has to do with connecting with the people that we interact with in our daily lives.

Erica Keswin:
Every day, I go into my local Starbucks, and I got to know my local barista. Her name is Ashley Peterson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Featured in your book.

Erica Keswin:
Yup. She's featured in my book, and we developed a relationship over time. She took an interest in me. This was before the app, but she would have my drink ready when she saw me walking in. She got to know my kids. I got to know her personal story. What that led to was that she really would look out for me. Again, whether it was having my drink ready, if she could see the look in my face when I was late for school.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're never late, Erica. You?

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. I am pretty on time to early, but you never know. One of your kids has a tantrum in the morning, it could make you late. But then something so amazing and inspirational happened, again, based on this authentic connection that I had with Ashley. Ashley noticed that one of my kids, my daughter Caroline, developed this taste for their pumpkin scones, which only come out around ... They're seasonal, so they only have them around Halloween. But by November, they were gone. I'll give you only a piece of the story, because you'll read it in the book, but long story short, it's November 4th, Caroline had had her last pumpkin scone. We went by Starbucks. I got my coffee, but there was nothing else to get, and we kept walking to school.

Erica Keswin:
The next thing you know, I hear Ashley calling my name, literally running down Broadway, and I think I'd left my wallet or something in the store, given, again, this was before I bought my drink on the Starbucks app. She ran over, and was breathing so heavy, and she said, "Caroline, I know we're out of pumpkin scones, but now it's November into December and it's Christmas time, and we just got our amazing gingerbread into the store. I think it's something that you might like." It made my day. It made my daughter's day. I have to say, she didn't love gingerbread, especially as much as the pumpkin, but it was this moment for me where I thought, "Wow." This was so unbelievable. It was so human, and she did it because she looked out for me, and we had been mutually building that relationship over time. That became the inspiration for Bring Your Human to Work, because that is what Ashley did in that moment.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Let's talk more about Bring Your Human to Work. I think it was Do Something, where you talk a lot about the desk strategy, and how that office is set up, because the space that we work in also has a big impact on productivity and therefore the success of a company, and the success of you as an employee.

Erica Keswin:
Yes. 100%. One of the chapters in the book is called Space Matters, and what I would say to your audience is that I'm not talking necessarily that you have to go out and spend millions and millions of dollars to have the fanciest space and necessarily look like Google or Facebook. I'm talking about you can think strategically about your space, how people interact, and it doesn't have to cost anything, or doesn't have to cost much. Their phrase, they have something called "the reaping," which is a term named after Games of Thrones, which I'll admit I have not seen the show, but they come in every six months, and everybody knows the day before when the reaping is going to happen, and you come in, and you pick out of a hat, and the first person that picks gets to decide where he or she wants to sit, and then they go from there. One of the interesting things that I've seen in many companies is that if you have a startup, everybody does everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Erica Keswin:
Right? I mean, you and I both know. We're running our own small business. We do everything. But then as you grow and you scale, it is very natural to become more siloed. All of a sudden, if you have 15 people in your company and you're all together all the time, that feels very different than when you're at 100 people or 500 people. However, the more people can talk to each other across functions, it's better for business. Your space impacts performance when you're able to mix up where people sit and how they move around the space, and bump into each other. It not only is good for people to build those connections, but it has a real impact on your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. So excited. The book is finally coming out after so much work I know you've put into it. I'm excited for everyone to finally get to read it. Tell us more.

Erica Keswin:
Great. Yeah. The book comes out on September 25. It's available for pre-order now on Amazon. Just look up Bring Your Human to Work, and if you want to find me, my website is EricaKeswin.com, E-R-I-C-A, K-E-S as in Sam, W-I-N. If you want to learn more about the Spaghetti Project, it's SpaghettiProject.com. You can find me on Instagram, @EricaKeswin, and on Twitter, @Erica_Keswin.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erica, this has been so wonderful and so special, so thank you for joining us.

Erica Keswin:
Thank you for having me. It was great.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Listening to Erica, I feel like I got a whole new perspective on how people interact with each other, not only in person, but also in the way that we communicate through technology. One of those is Financial Grownup tip number one. One of Erica's observations that we didn't get to talk about was something called "fubbing," or phone snubbing. It's when you look at someone directly in the eye, but at the same time, you're texting on your phone. It is a skill that I personally don't have, but it's a thing apparently. Don't do it, even if you do have that skill. As you will read in Erica's book, research has shown this kind of multitasking is not just rude, it's bad for business. Read more in her book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Bring Your Human to Work, as Erica says, but don't leave it at the office. Keep it with you in life. In other words, bring your human to life too, and take a lot of these lessons in addition to work, to your relationships outside of work. For example, next time you are talking to a salesperson or a waiter, or say, just ordering coffee, address the person by name, and look them in the eye. They're gonna appreciate it. It will likely get you better service and make for a better experience for both of you, and as a bonus, sometimes you'll get special treatment, as Erica and her daughter did with Ashley from Starbucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for your support. Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast at the [inaudible 00:14:39] awards, which recognizes excellence in money-related content creation. I wrote a pretty long post on it on Instagram, so follow me on Instagram, and check it out for some interesting background on me, and on the Financial Grownup Podcast, and how I got here. I am @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, @BobbiRebell on Twitter, and learn more about the podcast at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. Don't forget to check out Erica Keswin's new book, Bring Your Human to Work, great ideas for everyone to make their work and their life a little more human, and of course, thanks to Erica for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

After appearing on Shark Tank, The Sole Mates’ Becca Brown and Monica Ferguson found their best business support came not from the sharks but from a resource that would become key to their growing success. 

In The Sole Mates money story you will learn:

-New details about their Shark Tank experience- including the awkward conversations they had with well-meaning friends before their episode aired

-What happened after their appearance as they became part of the Shark Tank Alumni group

-The role the private Shark Tank Alumni group plays in their current business strategy

-Specific examples of business opportunities that have come their way from being part of this exclusive group

-Details of how they were able to get a major national retail deal that elevated their business

-How they got involved with the NFL

In The Sole Mates money lesson you will learn:

-Specific ways to find entrepreneur groups that fit your business needs 

-Strategies to work to grow organic networks

In the Sole Mates every day money tip you will learn:

-Which luxury shoe brands best retail their value

-How to make sure you don’t lower the value of shoes you intend to sell

-The best strategy and what to look for when buying pre-owned shoes 

Bobbi and the Sole Mates also talk about

-The impact of the national CVS deal on their business

-Other ways they leveraged their Shark Tank experience

-The human element to big brands

In My Take you will learn:

-My strategies for buying gently work handbags and clothing

-How to apply re-sale strategies beyond shoes, to things like wedding dresses

EPISODE LINKS

thesolemates.com

Follow The Sole Mates!

Instagram @thesolemates

Twitter @thesolemates

Facebook The Sole Mates

Shark Tank 

CVS

Amazon.com

Facebook.com

Good Morning America

The View

The NFL

THEREALREAL.COM

Christian Louboutin

Gucci

Heidi Klum

Vera Wang

Oscar De La Renta

Here is an article from one of my favorite websites, The Knot, on used wedding dresses

https://www.theknot.com/content/used-wedding-dresses-buy-sell-online

---

Transcription

Becca Brown:
If someone says, "Hey, this person is a crook. Don't work with them," It's a warning to all of us, like, "Oh, I just got a similar call. Everybody be on warning. Don't take these calls."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. We all need someone in our corner. Actually, we need as many people as possible in our corner. And for entrepreneurs, connections are everything, which is part of the appeal of the show Shark Tank. A deal with one of the sharks, in addition to money of course, opens doors. But a lot happens also after the cameras stop rolling that we don't hear about. More about that from our guest in a minute. You might be surprised.

Bobbi Rebell:
But first, we have some exciting news to share. Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast from the Plutus Awards, which celebrate money-related content. And this October my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup, will be coming out in paperback. I hope you pick up a copy, if you have not already. And maybe tell me what you think, and send over some ideas for another book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Back to Shark Tank and our guests, those Solemates co-founders, Becca Brown and Monica Fergusen. They left their jobs at Goldman Sachs to start a company making heel protectors under the brand Solemates, and their products have become huge hits among celebrities. Names like Oprah and her buddy, Gail King, and countless women, including myself. As you will hear, some men as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
So they went on Shark Tank and they got a deal, but the deal actually didn't happen. However, a lot of maybe bigger things, longterm, long "tail", I guess we call it. Big things happened afterwards in a way that I had no idea even existed. Here are the co-founders of Solemates, Becca Brown and Monica Fergusen. Hey, Becca Brown and Monica Fergusen, you guys are financial grownups. Welcome to the podcast.

Becca Brown:
Thanks.

Monica Fergusen:
Thanks, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the names behind the Solemates, which started with heel protectors, and now have a whole line of many, many things to help us keep our shoes in good shape and weather all kinds of hazards, like weddings. So congratulations on the success of Solemates.

Monica Fergusen:
Thank you, thank you, thank you. You know, we like to say that our goal is to make you more comfortable in your own shoes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that, and so does Oprah, by the way. You guys have got amazing press, so many big fans. You also got a lot of press because you were on Shark Tank, where you actually got a deal, after the fact though. And you've talked about this. The deal did not happen for various reasons. But the most interesting thing, I think, that you're going to talk about in your money story is what happens after. Tell us your money story.

Becca Brown:
Yeah, well, thanks for having us, Bobbi. This is Becca speaking. So obviously being on Shark Tank was an amazing experience. We were so thrilled to have that opportunity. But honestly, one of the biggest pleasant surprises to doing the show was what happened afterwards, which is we became part of this incredible, dynamic group of Shark Tank alumni companies; other companies that have been on the show. We are all part of this private Facebook group, and it has been literally the best resource for us to continue growing our business because it's like-minded individuals with, a lot of times, product-based businesses that are growing their companies. And we all are going through the same growth trajectories and sharing ideas and feedback and resources and it's been such an amazing resource for us.

Monica Fergusen:
Every time we would tell someone about what we did, the response was, "Oh, that sounds like something that should be on Shark Tank." And before you go on the show, you can't tell anyone you're going on the show, so it was a very frustrating time for us-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so you knew ... How far in advance before you actually ... first of all, before the taping, and then before it aired ... did you know? How long were you this keeping the secret?

Monica Fergusen:
Well, it was probably only a tight, tight, tight secret for a few months. The application process is really long and really from the time you start applying, you're pretty tight lipped about it because there's no upside in telling people what you're trying to get on. So it was a lot of forced smile responses of like, "Oh, what a great idea. We had not ever considered that"

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. So now you have this alumni group. Tell us more about the kinds of discussions and the kinds of advice that you've gotten from that and how has that helped your business?

Monica Fergusen:
The physical manufacturer of goods and the sale of goods comes with it a really unique set of problems including sourcing, including, web development, including your relationship with Amazon, including your PR, your social media, your relationship with influencers and traditional media, your relationship with employees. What kind of benefits do you set up? Do you have your own warehousing? Do you outsource it? There's so many things that come with every part of the business that to date we've kind of operated in a little bit of a vacuum where we leveraged them for everything daily. Being on the show it's a really cool and unique experience and I feel like it's also very much like a reflection of our culture right now, so in 25 years people will have no idea what we're talking about and Shark Tank is that right now and so it's cool to be a part of something that's so like of the moment culturally, which has also helped us grow our business in really unexpected and cool ways.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about the unexpected and cool ways the business has grown?

Becca Brown:
Well right after airing, we actually reached out to a couple of big mass retailers. CVS Pharmacies was one of them and the timing was perfect. CVS happened to be looking into building out a whole new category around fashion solutions and accessories and we had just had this massive exposure being on Shark Tank and so the buyer was willing to meet with us and literally like a month after Shark Tank, we went up to Woonsock at Rhode Island and met with the buyer and ended up launching in 5000 retail CVS pharmacies a few months later.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Did you go into the Facebook group and tell them about this and what was the reaction?

Becca Brown:
No, it's not really a place where you go and brag. Okay, so if I post a query today saying, "Hey, does anybody happen to know somebody that is working in media covering women's shoes?" Chances are within an hour I would have several responses like, "Oh, I know this person. I know that person."

Monica Fergusen:
Right. It's really, has anyone had this problem or has anyone met this person who's so helpful? It's asking questions and sharing a best practice. So like, "Hey, do you know if you contact Amazon on Sundays and you get the help desk in Ireland, there are much more likely to help your brand do X, Y, and Z if you get, I will not name a country, country on another day, hang up. Because like if [inaudible 00:07:09]

Becca Brown:
And I want to add to that too because I used to rent zip cars and that the sort of ethos of Zip cars was the community takes care of itself and you take care of the car and you return it with gas so that the next person can use the car. And I feel like our Shark Tank group carries that same sort of ethos. We take care of each other. We're looking out for one another. If someone says, "Hey, this person is a crook, don't work with them." It's a warning to all of us. Like, "Oh, I just got a similar call. Everybody beyond warning don't take these calls." And so we all are only as good as what we contribute and we are genuinely wanting to help one another.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you give me an example of wind that happened for you guys or for someone else in the Shark Tank alumni Facebook group that may not have happened without that network?

Becca Brown:
Good morning America and the television show The View. They do these really cool segments that are kind of like flash sales and on The View it's called view your deal and one of the. Actually two of the other Sharks Tank companies in our group have done view your deal before and they were so kind to introduce us to the group that runs that. So we did it in July.

Monica Fergusen:
And it was a great revenue generator and then more recently someone asked, anyone have products that would be interesting for NFL players in their fall training. So we're like, you know, we have products that we market for women but the product certainly work for men in hot pink packaging with high yield on it. If they're open to it, we're open to it and the managers looked at our product line and were like, "These products are amazing."

Monica Fergusen:
And so a 110 NFL players have been using our blister blocker and antibacterial spray as a result of some of the Shark Tank group The Newson sports managers who are looking for products for gift bags and looking to create relationships between celebrities and product companies and get nothing from it. Like the people in the group get, there no economic gain for them. It's more people they know have been put together with other people they know and that kind of goodwill you realize as you get older. It doesn't exist in that many places in the world people are often looking like, what can I get out of this? Or I can introduce you but like what's my take? And that is definitely not in line with the spirit of the Shark Tank group.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from that?

Becca Brown:
I think a lot of entrepreneurs, if they make a leap to start off their own business, they've come from a company where there's a lot of infrastructure, a lot of resources that you may have taken for granted and when you venture out on your own, as Monica touched on, it's very isolating and I think it's very important as soon as possible to start building a really strong organic network that is going to help you grow your business. And so obviously not everybody is going to be able to be part of the Shark Tank alumni group, but I mean looking at other entrepreneurs groups in your area, leveraging like the Chamber of Commerce, leveraging the small business administration. I think looking at your alumni network, a lot of times alumni networks do have an entrepreneur focus. There's like a sub network and it just can be so much more helpful to have that kind of a focus network because everybody's kind of in it to help one another, but also to expand and grow their businesses.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys brought a fantastic shoe themed everyday money tip, do you tell?

Monica Fergusen:
Yes. So we're in the business of shoes and we are both appreciators and to some to be collectors of nice shoes. Not all high heels but many high heels, but something I think people should take in mind when they are considering a purchase of new shoes is that sometimes the more you spend, the more you can get back. And if you look at the success of the secondary market, the used clothing market for shoes, it's thriving, but in particular Christian Louboutin and Gucci are two brands that stick out as having the strongest bid for their gently used shoes. If you spend a thousand dollars, God bless you on a pair of shoes, the real real Mike Compu is several hundred dollars when you sell it again.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you mean by Compu?

Monica Fergusen:
I mean they will have someone buy from you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Monica Fergusen:
To make it simple. It's $500. So your net cost on that shoe is only $500. Whereas a lot of other designers that are not quite as high don't have a strong secondary bid. So you're unlikely to recoup any cash when you try to sell them. If you try to sell them, but Christian Louboutin and Gucci in particular, the real real has reported have done phenomenally

Bobbi Rebell:
So interesting. What about the fact that they are worn a little bit? Can you get them resoled? How does that affect the value, if you like with the Christian Louboutin, those are the shoes. Just so people know. I personally, by the way don't own any, but maybe some day they have the red bottoms, so what happens if you've worn it? Can you get them sort of resold? Because I resell a lot of shoes sometimes if I like them. Does that hurt the value? If you then put on new soles, can you paint them red? Does it matter?

Monica Fergusen:
It actually hurt the value. Done something like put on a new sole. They want the shoe to be in pretty good condition. I don't want to plug my own product too, but using things like a heel protector is a great start because the damaged heel-

Bobbi Rebell:
Which you should do anyway, whether you're going to sell it or not?

Monica Fergusen:
Well absolutely, but a damaged heel really can't be fixed. So you wear a little heel protector, keeping that heel in perfect condition, therefore it's so much easier to sell it. As someone who sells a lot of shoes, I can attest the lifetime value of the heel protector exceeds its retail value because it's a gold age-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well how much is, I mean they're not expensive. How much is a heel protector?

Monica Fergusen:
$10.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Monica Fergusen:
And that $10 is probably generated hundreds of dollars in resale for me on my shoes.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about buying shoes secondhand? What do people need to know there, what should they look for? Any tips?

Monica Fergusen:
So it's actually great to buy a shoe secondhand. And I have no economic interest in the real real, but I'm a big fan of theirs.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, I've sold stuff fair. They're great.

Monica Fergusen:
Yeah. But you can feel comfortable buying stuff from them too because they do have a really sharp guy and discipline and what they'll accept and they'll take anything back for them. I mean they'll let you know before you buy it, if it's final sale, but for the most part things are returnable.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk a little bit about Solemates. So what's going on with you guys? You're everywhere these days.

Monica Fergusen:
We're trying, we're trying. I mean CVS has been a great boon for our business and brought us in so many new customers and such great exposure and it's also been really fun to meet the brands that were sold within CVS. I mean it's more, again, more like-minded people, non Shark Tank brands. But we reached out to the other brands that were sold with just to introduce ourselves. A lot of them are based in our area, so we've been able to actually get together and have coffee. I think people sometimes forget there's a human element to everything. And so these massive brands that have names are intimidating because they've got Heidi Klum on their packaging, but they're run by real people that have real jobs and do a lot of the same things that we do.

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us more about where people can find you and keep up with all the new products that you guys will be putting out?

Monica Fergusen:
Yeah, so we're @thesolemates on Instagram and twitter and Facebook and our website is thesolemates.com where we're sort of up to date with all of our retailers and all of our products were sold at CVS, DSW, David's bridal, Von Mar, about a thousand independence all listed on our website. Always changing, always, hopefully, always growing our website and Amazon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great. This has been wonderful. Thank you so much.

Monica Fergusen:
Bobbi. Thank you so much-

Becca Brown:
Thank you Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Not your typical everyday money tip, but personally I kind of loved it. There's nothing wrong with having fantastic shoes. If you can get them at a huge discount, barely worn even better, but know to buy. Financial Grownup tip Number one. So the same idea goes for other things that you may not think you can afford or want to spend big money on, but if you buy gently used ones, maybe they do fit into your mindset. For most of us, it's really about getting past that psychological barrier, whether it's the idea of buying something that has been gently worn or just the idea of owning something that is so expensive. Even if you didn't pay the original retail price, so it's important to look for niche sites that specialize in what you want.

Bobbi Rebell:
The Real, real that Monica and Becca referenced is luxury, especially shoes and handbags, but you can also look, for example, for wedding dresses, so according to The Knot a used wedding dress in great condition can sell for 50% of the retail price. Just as is the case with shoes. Some designer names like Vera Wang and Oscar De La Renta will get a higher percentage. So if you want to go really high end and you know you're going to sell your dress after your wedding, know what you're buying so you know what you're selling and you can maybe choose a designer assuming that you liked that designer because you're going to be of course wearing the dress, which is the most important thing, but maybe if you're selecting between two, select a designer that will have the higher resale value. I'm going to leave a link to The Knot with some websites that you can check out.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you want to know more, including or to possibly even rent a wedding dress, the show notes that will have all this information are @bobbirebell.com/podcast/the soul mates. Financial Grownup. Tip number two, turn lemons into lemonade like the ladies did. Their deal fell through, but in the end, Monica and Becca leverage the Shark Tank experience and grew their business from the show anyway. Setbacks are only that and while they are a mum about why exactly the deal didn't happen ultimately my sense is that it just didn't work for both parties when it came down to it and that's okay. No deal is better than the wrong deal and that's a great lesson from Becca and Monica.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright everyone. Please be in touch DM me on all the socials. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, Bobbirebell on twitter, and sign up for our newsletter@Bobbirebell.com and thank you for a great story to Becca and Monica. So much we didn't know about Shark Tank and for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Fearless financial independence was a lesson superstar entrepreneur and Kabbage Co-founder and COO Kathryn Petralia learned early on from her parents. Now she is using those skills to not only build her company but to instill strong family and financial values in her own kids. 

In Kathryn’s money story you will learn:

-How her parent's divorce impacted the way she understood money

-Not to dwell on past mistakes

-Her philosophy on financial independence

In Kathryn’s money lesson you will learn:

-How she's teaching her children financial literacy

-A quick lesson in small business loans and how to get them

In Kathryn’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The open secret about getting discounts on AirBNB

-Examples where she used the technique to rent homes for less than AirBNB

Bobbi and Kathryn also talk about:

Forbes 100 Most Powerful Women of 2017
AirBNB

EPISODE LINKS:

Follow Kathryn!!

Instagram @Kabbageinc

Twitter @KabbageInc

Learn more about Kabbage at https://www.kabbage.com/ 

Learn more about how to teach your kids financial literacy here:

https://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/my-money/articles/2017-04-04/how-to-raise-financially-literate-kids 

---

Transcription

Kathryn:
We went to the grocery store and as we were walking out, I dropped the gallon of milk and it broke open and all the milk was spilled. And she started to cry and she was really upset because she didn't have enough money to get another gallon of milk.

Bobbi:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of how to be a financial grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this!

Bobbi:
Hey Financial Grownup friends. We all have memories of childhood that stay with us forever. As you heard with our remarkable guest who you'll get to know, Kabbage co-founder, Kathryn Petralia. In her case, literally her mom, crying over spilled milk; Kathryn never wanted to be in that position and one might argue that that moment, that defining moment and the realization that came from it, was her financial grownup moment.

Bobbi:
Welcome to all of you. So glad you can spend the time with us. We value that time so we keep the Podcast short; about 15 minutes. But if you have more time, feel free to binge. And if you like it, please share with a friend and don't forget to subscribe. New thing I learned recently: take a screenshot, share it on social media, and tag me so I can thank you. The show is free and if you feel it's giving you value, share it with someone that you think would enjoy it as well. Let's get to Kathryn's story. Stay to the end, by the way. Her everyday money tip is going to save you hundreds of dollars, if not more, on your next vacation. I'm serious. This is a really good one. Here is Kathryn Petralia.

Bobbi:
Hey, Kathryn Petralia. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the Podcast!

Kathryn:
Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbi:
Congratulations on all the success of your venture, Kabbage. Tell us a little more about it.

Kathryn:
Kabbage is a data and technology platform that enables realtime lending to small businesses. We've deployed over five billion dollars to 150 000 small businesses in the United States.

Bobbi:
Wow. And by the way, just so our listeners know, you're a big deal. You were named recently in the Forbes 100 Most Powerful Women of 2017, along with some peers like Oprah and Sheryl Sandberg, so congratulations on that.

Kathryn:
Oh, thanks a lot. I was really shocked by that, frankly. I'm super honored to be part of that crowd.

Bobbi:
Well, I think as more people get to know you and all that you've accomplished, I think people will not be at all surprised. And on that note, I wanna hear your money story because it has to do with your childhood and the framework that set you up to have this drive to make sure that you were successful in business and in your family as well. Tell us your story.

Kathryn:
Well, when I was about six years old my parents had recently divorced and my mom was struggling to make ends meet because she was getting her PhD and didn't wanna take alimony or child support that the court didn't order; this was in 1976, so that was a thing back then. And so things were really tight for her financially and we went to the grocery store and as we were walking out, I dropped the gallon of milk and it broke open and all the milk was spilled and she started to cry. She was really upset because she didn't have enough money to get another gallon of milk. That just had a really big impact on me, you know, at that time and I've remembered that story for many years. What's funny is my mom doesn't remember it anymore.

Bobbi:
Oh my goodness! It's so interesting always looking back the things that make an impact on a child and it just becomes part of the everyday fabric of life for adults. What else do you remember about that period of time in your life, in terms of your mom and what was going on with her? Did you guys have discussions about it? Did that incident open up any kind of dialogue about money? Or was she always trying to put on a brave face? Because it sounds like she was a really strong woman.

Kathryn:
Well, you know, she was always very transparent with me about everything, so it's not like she tried to hide it from me. She certainly didn't want me to be stressed about money, so it wasn't like she was saying to me, "Oh, we only have $14 this week," or whatever. But if I asked for something, she was really honest about, "Well, we can't really afford that now. Maybe we can do that later." I've lived with both my parents, so back and forth, so I had these two totally different experiences.

Bobbi:
Oh tell me more about that.

Kathryn:
Well my father's an attorney, and so he had obviously more money. He had a job; he wasn't working part-time. And so I was able to get things that I wanted and needed from my father and I was able to protect my mom from those requests, I think ... I learned a little bit about protecting my parents back then.

Bobbi:
Yeah. It sounds like you were taking on a lot of financial ... I don't know if it's decisions, but you were certainly thinking about money at an early age.

Kathryn:
Absolutely.

Bobbi:
Can you expand on that?

Kathryn:
I guess I just knew that there were different ways that people lived. So if I had only been in my dad's house all the time, then I think it was really useful to me to understand that not everybody has everything they want and some people really have to struggle to get by just to pay their rent and just to buy groceries. And I think that was a valuable lesson for me.

Bobbi:
Interesting. If you were able to see two ... You basically grew up almost in two different socio-economic levels in that you had to see both sides of the story.

Kathryn:
That's exactly right. But not forever. I mean, my mom got her PhD and married a professor and so I think everything was a lot more the same by the time I was 11 or 12. But certainly there was a period of time where things were different.

Bobbi:
Tell me more about your day-to-day life then with your mom and your dad, how it differed financially.

Kathryn:
I could ask my dad for things or I could ask to go out to eat or I could ask for a toy. I really didn't ask for a lot of stuff, anyway. But with my mom I was more careful and I knew that it would be a treat to go to Dairy Queen and get a Dilly Bar, which is like the D since back then. She wanted that too, so I picked the things that she could treat me to so that she would feel good to.

Bobbi:
Looking back, it's interesting because in many divorce cases you hear that one party wouldn't pay the other one, or something was going on, but your mother, it sounds like proactively did not wanna take child support or alimony. What's your sense ... Is that something you've ever talked to her about? Because it certainly would've made a lot of those times easier.

Kathryn:
Well, from her perspective it was her decision to leave the marriage and so from her perspective he didn't owe her any of that. In fact, the court actually wouldn't let my father not pay her, so she gave him the money back and she paid income taxes on it, I mean, because she's just a very stand-up kind of person, I guess. And she wanted to make her own way and she didn't feel like it needed to be his problem. So I think I've picked up on some of those tendencies from her, too. But thing's were different in the '70s.

Bobbi:
In what way did you pick up on those tendencies?

Kathryn:
Just to not expect things from people. To know that I have to make my own way and to not rely on other people to get what I need.

Bobbi:
You've always been fiercely independent it sounds like, at least certainly in terms of your financial drive and your ... You've got a lot of ... Like, look at what you've accomplished. You've done a lot and you're still pretty young.

Kathryn:
I don't feel that way now, but I mean ... I could tell you that my knees hurt when I stand up, when I get off the floor with the baby. But you think the independence is driving. I think it does drive me maybe to do more than I would otherwise and to not take something from someone and to try to get it myself. But sometimes that works against you, so if I really need for something, like this weekend my husband's gonna be out of town and he's at home with our two kids and I really would make my life easier if I had somebody come and watch our baby for a couple of hours so I could do something with the older child. But I'm probably not gonna do that. I'm probably gonna just try to get it all done myself and nobody's gonna have a great experience because I'm not asking for help, so I think there's a downside to that, too.

Bobbi:
I think we've all been there. So tell me, what's the lesson for our listeners from this? Because there's a lot of takeaways. It's very interesting and I really appreciate you sharing this with us.

Kathryn:
Well, I think because I went through some financial uncertainty as a child, it means that I know that people can get out of it. So I've never really been afraid of financial instability because I know that it's possible to make it through. I got married really young, right out of college, and my husband and I moved to Atlanta. We didn't have jobs or even prospects for jobs. I wasn't worried about it at all. We just figured it out, we got some jobs; I think I learned that from my mom. My husband's been a stay-at-home parent for 18 years since our 18 year old was born, and so you have to make a lot of sacrifices for that too to be the only one working.

Kathryn:
It's a little different as a woman, especially 18 years ago, being a stay-at-home dad wasn't a thing as much back then as it is now. But when we started Kabbage 10 years ago, we went without any income at all for a year and for way less income than we'd had for a long time for a couple years after that. And kudos to my husband for sticking it out, but I wanted to make sure ... One thing I wanted to be really careful about was that our eight year old at the time didn't feel any kind of stress from that. He knew what was going on and he knew that things were a little bit different around the house, but he wasn't worried that he wasn't gonna be able to eat dinner that night. And it was important for me to protect him from that.

Bobbi:
When you look back, do you feel like you're protecting him in reaction to the fact that you were not as protected as a child.

Kathryn:
What I've done is we have that same level of transparency that my mom had with me, and really my dad, too, frankly, about finances. So he knew exactly where things stood, but if we were worried about anything like were we gonna have enough money to pay for his college; we didn't talk about those things with him, if that makes sense.

Bobbi:
Right. You're not worrying him about big-picture stuff but you're talking about the day-to-day stuff.

Kathryn:
Right. And even since then, he had ... I got him a checking account when he was 10 and he's had his own debit card. So he buys his own toiletries today with the money that we give him so that he's having to make decisions about what to buy. That's also been important to us.

Bobbi:
Which is good, because you're making him into a financial grownup, which is amazing!

Kathryn:
I would tell you: sometimes I think he doesn't make very good decisions, but he'll learn.

Bobbi:
Look: I always say at the end of every episode, "We're getting closer." Because it's always a process. Right? We're never fully grown up.

Bobbi:
So I wanna hear your everyday money tip, because this was one. We were talking beforehand coming up with one and you came up with this and it's brilliant. I've never heard this before. Go for it.

Kathryn:
Well, my husband loves to travel. Vacations are important for him. But we couldn't do that for a couple of years while we were starting Kabbage. AirBNB was just becoming popular I would say, maybe what, seven or eight years ago. But what we've learned in the last couple of years is that when you find a listing that you really like on AirBNB, sometimes you can figure out that it's actually managed by a property management company and they have other properties as well. And you can find their website you can save a ton of money by going directly to the property managers as opposed to going through AirBNB, and my apologies to AirBNB for telling you this hack.

Bobbi:
Well, they'll understand. Because also it brings you to AirBNB to even check it out to begin with; I think they'll be okay. Do you have any example? Do you remember any trip that you took where you did this?

Kathryn:
I have one I'm just about take where I did this!

Bobbi:
Awesome!

Kathryn:
I gotta travel to California for work and my husband and baby are coming with me and so he found a property and I noticed that it said it was offered by a particular company. We went directly to the site and saved like $600.

Bobbi:
Wow. That's awesome. $600 on how much? On a week or something?

Kathryn:
Five days.

Bobbi:
Awesome. Alright. You're definitely the money expert here. I wanna hear more about Kabbage, because it seems like you're disrupting an area that was really needing to ... It's sort of an open niche between the small businesses needs that ... It's like bigger than a personal loan, but not quite a full medium sized business loan. Tell us more about what Kabbage does and what's unique about it that's so disruptive and that's getting so much attention. And frankly I've been reading some really large numbers in terms of valuation, Kathryn. I know you haven't disclosed all of them but there's a B in front of some of these numbers, my friends.

Kathryn:
There is a B.

Bobbi:
B as in billion.

Kathryn:
US dollars. So, yeah, we've certainly grown a lot. And I think we've been the fortunate beneficiaries of access to realtime data. Our business couldn't have existed 10 years ago the way it does today because the data wasn't available for us to give our customers the experience that we give them. We can actually ... A small business owner who comes to our site can get through the entire application and have actual money in their account in less than 10 minutes. The average is like seven or eight minutes.

Bobbi:
Wow.

Kathryn:
So businesses need capital, but they also need time. Small business owners are running all over the place. They're managing their families, they're managing their businesses, they're doing all kinds of financial things that they probably weren't trained to do and maybe even don't like doing. And so we try to make this as painless as possible for them and really transparent so you're not wondering for days and weeks and months, are they really gonna get that loan and what did that loan officer think.

Kathryn:
That's a big part of the challenge today is that most small business loans are a very manual, time-consuming process. So businesses looking for less than a quarter of a million dollars from a bank? The banks have a hard time doing that cost effectively, so they generally don't even make those loans. And I think that's really the reason our business is able to exist because we could cost-effectively using technology and automation. We can cost-effectively serve those small businesses.

Bobbi:
How did you first come up with this idea?

Kathryn:
My co-founder Rob had the idea because he was working with another company that was using a recently launched Ebay API. They gave third parties access to seller and transaction level data. All the data was authorized. You know, the customer's authorize Ebay or QuickBooks or can't even process where to share the data with us, so they know that we're getting it. But he thought, "Wow. Wouldn't it be interesting to use that data to make a small business lending decision about that business that sells on Ebay?"

Kathryn:
And my background was in FinTech, which wasn't called that then, but that's what it was. So he called me up and said, "Hey, what do you think about this idea?" We had worked together previously and I thought, "Wow, that's really cool." I love that you could use data in that way and consumer lending's been automated since the '90s. But the small business funders hadn't already picked up on that, apparently. We didn't really realize that.

Bobbi:
So it's an underserved market?

Kathryn:
Absolutely. It was an underserved market and it remains underserved. It wasn't because of the financial crisis that it was underserved, but it's always been that way.

Bobbi:
Well I'm glad that you are now helping out in that area. Tell us where people can learn more about you and about Kabbage.

Kathryn:
I'm not a huge social media person. I have the best Twitter handle ever that I don't use well and that's Kabbage; @Kabbage. And you can find out more about Kabbage at www.Kabbage.com and it's Kabbage with K. Although, if you use Cabbage with a C, then you'll find us there, too. We originally named it Kabbage with a K because it was cheaper to get that domain. It was like $1200 as opposed to $75 000 for Cabbage with C. But-

Bobbi:
Oh, wow.

Kathryn:
... we got the Cabbage with the C recently a lot cheaper, so we're excited now we have both. And you can find out more about me on LinkedIn; you can connect with me there. I'm not a huge social media user, but you can always find me on LinkedIn.

Bobbi:
Awesome. Thank you so much!

Kathryn:
Thank you!

Bobbi:
Hey friends. Here is my take on what Kathryn had to say. Financial grownup tip number one: don't be too hard on yourself. Kathryn remembers dropping the milk and her mom crying so vividly. But her mom didn't even remember it. Move forward, don't dwell on past mistakes. Financial grownup tip number two: educating your kids about money doesn't mean you have to tell them everything. It's more than okay to protect them from the scary stuff before they need to know or if it's not age-appropriate. Even if they may never need to know the details of your financial life, it doesn't have to be transparent. Kids can learn about money without knowing everything going on with your family finances. You can just say no to a request for something without saying that you can't afford it. You can just say, "We're not buying it."

Bobbi:
Alright my friends. I am curious. What money lessons did your parents teach you growing up that you remember? Connect with my on social and DM me your thoughts. In Instagram, I am @Bobbirebell1, on Twitter @Bobbirebell, and on Facebook, @Bobbirebell. Learn more about the show at www.bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. And the show notes are at www.bobbirebell.com/podcast/kathrynpetralia. And while you're there, sign up for the newsletter. And thanks to Kathryn for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Entrepreneur Melissa Clark had a lot going on- too much. Even she was confused. She was a wellness practitioner, creating content on many platforms including local tv, podcasting, video and books, including a children’s book, as well as coaching and speaking businesses focused on women’s empowerment. But letting go and narrower her focus was a challenge. 

In Melissa’s money story you will learn:

-How Melissa started a business based on her passion for Reiki and wellness

-How the business was evolving in unexpected ways

-The difficult choice she had to make to pare back parts of the business in order to build up the ones that were resonating with her audience

In Melissa’s money lesson you will learn:

-How Melissa prioritized her business growth

-The criteria she used to focus her energy on certain parts of her business

-How she got it all done while working a full-time job!!

In Melissa’s every day money tip you will learn:

-How to self-publish a book for free or without upfront costs

-The things you might want to pay for

-Specifically how Melissa used Create Space

-The advantages of print on demand, especially for special occasions

-Whether you should consider producing an audio guide

-How digital guides can be a great option to save costs

Bobbi and Melissa also talk about

-The She Shift brand and her book

-Melissa’s new partnerships with women’s organizations

-Melissa’s speaking business and her podcast

In My Take you will learn:

-How to pivot your business to focus on the areas that are resonating with your audience

-They key sign it doesn’t make sense to other people- is when they tell you they are confused

-The importance of consistency in brand building

-The difference between procrastinating and taking the right amount of time for a project aka not putting something out there before it is ready. 

Episode Links

Learn More about The She Shift TheSheShift.com

Follow Melissa and the She Shift!

Facebook TheSheShift

Twitter @thesheshift

Instagram @thesheshift

LinkedIn :Melissa Clark

Create Space

 

Entrepreneur Melissa Clark had a lot going on- too much. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode we discuss how Melissa prioritized her business growth and the criteria she used to focus her energy on certain parts of her business. #Rebranding #FinancialGrownup #RebrandSmallBusiness #Author

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Transcription

Melissa Clark:
Reiki was something that really helped me in my own life, so I was very passionate about helping other people. It was growing slowly. Trying to figure out how to tie everything in together, that was actually a little bit of a challenge because people knew that I was doing all of these things, but they weren't related so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup". And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, this is an episode that makes me really proud of our guest. She is Melissa Clark, and her relatively new brand is The She Shift. More on that in a sec. Not long ago, Melissa thought she was building a wellness business as a Reiki practitioner under the brand The Wholistic Package. The brand clarity was an issue because she had so much going on. She had a children's book, she was working as a speaker, she was hosting a local TV show, she had a line of inspirational apparel, and a book on women and ambition, and videos, and lots of content. So much content. And this was also, by the way, her side hustle.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before we get to her story, quick welcome to our newest listeners and welcome back to our regulars. We are all busy, so we try to keep the podcast here to what we call flex time. The episodes are around fifteen minutes, but if you have a little more time, stack them together, binge, whatever you want to call it. It is about making it work for you. Make sure to subscribe, and you will get three a week. Go into settings and just confirm that you are on auto-download so you don't miss any, and if you still have a second, take a screenshot of the episode on your phone if that's where you're listening to it, and please share it on your social media channels. Help us to spread the word.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, let's get to Melissa Clark. Brave interview here because Melissa basically admits after I kind of confront her that yes, she had a bunch of different product lines and content going on that she could sort of justify as related, but her audience, well, a lot of the time, they were confused, I was confused, but she's got it together now. So this is a story of how she dropped what wasn't working and built up what was, and no, it did not happen overnight. This lady works a lot. Here is The She Shift's Melissa Clark.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Melissa Clark, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Melissa Clark:
Hi, Bobbi. Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the continued growth of your relatively new platform. We're going to talk about that. She Shift, which is not only a website, a blog, it's also a book, it's also a podcast, and it is growing. You're also a speaker. And it's all about empowering women.

Melissa Clark:
Yes, very much so. And I'm very excited to have launched that last year and all of the amazing things, as you said, under that umbrella.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's not just a launch of that, it was actually a shift in and of itself. It was a rebrand. You made some tough decisions and had to let some things go. Tell us your money story about this rebrand and pivoting of what you were doing in your whole business

Melissa Clark:
A few years ago, I started as a wellness practitioner, a Reiki practitioner, and my business at the time was called The Wholistic Package, and in that time, I was working on wellness, I was also in the writing process. Things were shifting for myself during the past few years, and so far as working more with women through a local television show that I had in my community, through a line of inspirational apparel that I was working on, and then my book came about, and I really decided at one point that it was the right time to shift everything for myself and shift everything under one umbrella and under one brand, because for me, it really made sense to have everything under one brand that focused on women and women empowerment, and each item that I have, or service that I have, is something different, but everything has the same mission.

Melissa Clark:
I really had to almost start from scratch and create content and figure out how to change my platform, my website, my logo. So everything under The She Shift, I essentially had to start over and start from scratch and create. I basically put my head down for ten months and worked on my book and worked on my consulting packages and worked on all of the content that was going to be under that brand, and I had to figure out really what direction and where I saw that in the bigger picture. So in 2016, I started to transition with the book, and it was actually October of last year where I focused more on that specific content, and about six weeks ago, I launched every piece of content and every facet and aspect of The She Shift.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was it hard, or what did it feel like to let go of your old platform?

Melissa Clark:
As a wellness practitioner, that was something ... Reiki was something that really helped me in my own life, so I was very passionate about helping other people. It was growing slowly, but all of the other things I was working on, I published a children's book in 2015, and I was working on the inspirational apparel that I have for women. So I was kind of doing all of these different things and trying to figure out how to tie everything in together. That was actually a little bit of a challenge because people knew that I was doing all of these things, but they weren't related so much. So they were ... I was trying to make everything about our mind, body, and spirit, and improving ourselves and our well-being. But, you know, everything had a little bit of a different theme, so-

Bobbi Rebell:
It almost sounds like it was confusing to your audience.

Melissa Clark:
At points, I did get some feedback that people knew the separate pieces of what I was doing, but sometimes, they weren't quite sure either. So it was a time when I had to reevaluate what I was working on and how I could get all of these things under one umbrella because I was so passionate about working on the consulting side, and the speaking side, and my writing, and doing all of these things, but I realized at the end of the day that everything had the same message and it was the same mission, so I could then put it under the same. So it did take a little bit for me to let go of the other side of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were you running multiple social media accounts for each of these brands at the time?

Melissa Clark:
I was working on The Wholistic Package, and I then switched over. I actually had to create a brand new Facebook account. At the time, I had several hundred followers through my old business, but because I had to change the mission of the business, I had to start a new account with that, and then I ended up starting at that time, I went into the Instagram, and the Twitter, and the LinkedIn, and that's when I really started creating more content and trying to be more consistent with the social media. I've been working with the content a lot more these days because there's so much content to work with, and I do everything from videos to my podcast to different writing pieces, and I really try to keep up on all of that, but everything is under the same mission and theme now, so now I have a lot of content to work with.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from your story? I mean, it's hard to say goodbye to a brand that you created, that you put so much into. So much of your love, and so much money, time, and resources.

Melissa Clark:
Sure, so shedding that piece, which seemed to be maybe a little difficult at the time, it really brought me to where I am today, and I organically followed my path I say, because I know that this is where I'm meant to be and what I'm meant to be doing, so the lesson is sometimes you may be working on something at one point in your life, and that could change. I mean, even in the business that I have now, you never know. I always say I do think about where it's going to be five years from now, but I do take everything day by day because you really don't know where things are going to go or what opportunities are going to present themselves in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
For your everyday money tip, you are a self-published author. This is a world I don't know that much about, but you have some brilliant advice for people that don't want to have to front any money. I didn't know this. You can pretty much at least publish, obviously there's things coming up to publishing, but you can publish almost for free, especially, this is great, not only for people that want to publish for professional reasons, but maybe you just want to publish a few for a family member, for a special occasion, for a friend's wedding, make a little mini-book or something. Tell us.

Melissa Clark:
Sure. So with my personal experience for my children's book and for my book for women in business, I've used Create Space, which I started with Create Space in 2015 is when my children's book came out. So at that time, I wrote the printed book and I had a Kindle version. And for my book for women in business, "The She Shift", I have it in a paperback, and what I love about self-publishing is that you go onto their website, you can either do it yourself or you can work with a designer and have them upload the file, and it's print on demand. So really, if you don't want to spend a lot of money for a large quantity of books up front, and let's say you plan on doing an event, a table event, or you want to buy some copies for your family, you can go in and you can select how many you'd like, and it's a print on demand. So there's not a lot of up front coasts regarding the printing of the book, and it really, I think, helps a lot of authors to save some costs in that way.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, you said you could do audio and Kindle as well, or electronic, it doesn't have to be Kindle.

Melissa Clark:
Sure, so you can do an ebook, and also now, a lot of authors are doing audio guides on Audible or through different platforms. My own audio guides, I actually recorded them myself and they're on my website. So you can do either, which that also can save costs because it's a digital file, so they're really becoming popular as well now, especially the audio guides, so it's another way for authors to save a little bit on the printing and designing costs.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. All right, let's talk about The She Shift a little bit more. You mentioned you don't know where it will be in five years. Let's talk about the next five months, the rest of 2018. What's on the agenda?

Melissa Clark:
Thank you. So right now, I'm focusing on my book launch, which is on Amazon, and then consulting, speaking, and other opportunities, and I have some speaking engagements scheduled, and I'm also partnering with some women's organizations, so I'm continuing to do those things, and I really look forward to the next six months to really seeing what's going to happen and connecting with more amazing women.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, where can everyone find out more about you and The She Shift?

Melissa Clark:
Sure. TheSheShift.com, or I'm on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, and Instagram. LinkedIn, I'm under Melissa Clark, and the others, it's under The She Shift.

Bobbi Rebell:
Melissa, this was wonderful. Thank you so much.

Melissa Clark:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, here's my take on Melissa's story. Financial grownup tip number one, your business has to make sense to other people. If you have to constantly explain how the parts fit together, they don't. And it's okay to drop products that used to work with your brand, but no longer do. It's also okay to drop a brand completely, as Melissa basically did with The Wholistic Package. And it was hard. She had put a lot into it and she loved it. But to focus on her She Shift business, she had to make some hard choices. Saying goodbye to something so much went into to make time in your day and in your mind to build up something that's better ultimately is hard, but worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, take the time. Melissa talked about this revamp going back a couple of years. A lot of that was that her day job took up a lot of her time. That's okay. So she was realistic about what it would take to get this done. Doing something methodically and carefully is not the same as procrastinating, and during that time, she was building up different parts of it to be a more cohesive brand. Being deliberate in your plans and how you allocate resources is a very financial grownup thing to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for supporting the show. I want to hear about your grownup money and business experiences. I love hearing from you and getting all kinds of feedback. On Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1, on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and on Facebook at BobbiRebell. For the show notes, go to BobbiRebell.com/podcast/MelissaClark, and all of the show notes follow the same pattern in that the last segment is just the guest's name. So we keep it really simple, you don't have to worry about what number it was, just know the guest's name and it's BobbiRebell.com/podcast/the guest's name. And while you're there, sign up for our new [inaudible 00:13:59], we're going to get it going again this fall. Looking forward to some great content there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to Melissa Clark for your candor and for such a real discussion about the challenges of being an entrepreneur, and just being a grownup, figuring out who you are and what works, and for helping all of us get one step closer to being financial grownups.

As a young woman in New York City, Randi Zuckerberg, author of “Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day)" was struggling financially. Her mom, knowing the financial strain, came armed with… luxury goods. Think Jimmy Choo shoes. But as Randi explains, the designer duds were part of a very intentional lesson, that put Randi right on track to being a financial grownup. 

 

In Randi’s money story you will learn:

-How Randi struggled to make ends meet on her first salary of just $28,000

-Why Randi’s mom would take her out and buy her luxury goods, but not help her with her every day expenses

-What Randi did when she literally could not afford to buy a metrocard for the NYC bus and subway

In Randi’s money lesson you will learn:

-How her mother’s strategy helped Randi find her path to financial independence

-If Randi still has all those shoes!

-The one thing Randi would change when she teachers her own children about money

In Randi’s money tip you will learn:

-Why she is paying attention to Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

-How you can learn more about Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

In My Take you will learn:

-How to manage social media envy

-The specific thing you can do with your own social media content to improve your experience and that of your friends

-Why and how you can learn more about bitcoin and cryptocurrency

Episode Links:

Learn more about Randi on her website Zuckerbergmedia.com

Get Randi’s book! Pick Three: You Can Have it All, Just Not Every Day

Learn about Cryptocurrency from Randi in this tutorial

 

Follow Randi!

Facebook Randi Zuckerberg

Instagram @RandiZuckerberg

Twitter @RandiZuckerberg

 

Also mentioned

Statement Event

Empower App

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Randi Zuckerber:
You know, I would turn to her and I would be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, my friend Randi Zuckerberg is known for a lot of things. It would take an entire podcast to name them all, so some highlights. She is a bestselling author of Dot Complicated, a Broadway actress and singer with a head star in Rock of Ages. She is the founder and CEO of Zuckerberg Media. Randi is also the force behind Sue's Tech Kitchen, she's got her weekly Sirius XM show, and oh, by the way, she created this little thing called Facebook Live. But her most recent project is Pick Three, which is a book about priorities, and with all that Randi has going on you bet she has had to get a handle on how to focus on what matters most, even if that changes every day. Here is Randi Zuckerberg.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi Zuckerberg, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thanks so much Bobbi, it's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Major congratulations, another, in this case soon-to-be bestseller, your new book Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day). We're going to talk more about that later on, but just high level, this is something you've had in your head basically for your whole adult life. Tell us briefly about the concept, and then we'll do more about the book later.

Randi Zuckerber:
Sure. Well, we're all juggling so many things. I know you and I, we both, we're entrepreneurs, we're moms, I feel like there's so much pressure on all of us to be perfect at everything we do. Especially you log onto Instagram and everyone's lives look so perfect and so amazing, and then it's easy to sit there and think, "Gosh, how come I don't have my act together? Why don't I have it all and have that perfect balance?" And what I've really started to feel over the years is that it's just, it's time for us to stop carrying so much guilt around. Nobody has it all. Nobody has perfect balance, no matter what their lives might look like on Instagram. And so when I thought about the times in my life I felt most proud of my accomplishments, it was not when I was balanced. It was when I gave myself permission to just prioritize and go for it in a few areas of my life, so that's what I'm writing about. It's called Pick Three, and it's work, sleep, family, friends, fitness - pick three.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And by the way, just to show how much I love this book and how obsessed I am, I actually made notes in the book already. You can learn more about Randy's philosophy on social media and how our lives always look better online, page 211. That was one of the things that I flagged. So that's how good her book is, I have a book full of little post-it notes. Okay, we're going to go back to the book, but I want to talk about your money story, because it's something that I actually related to, because something very similar happened when I was a young adult, in my case also in New York City. Tell us your money story, because it has to do with the way that your mother taught you to earn your own money, but yet still was supporting you in different ways.

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally. And it's funny, because I didn't really learn the lesson of this story until many years later. In the moment, it felt kind of random, and now I'm so thankful to my mom for that. So in the book I go a bit deeper into the story, but when I was right out of college I landed a job at an ad agency. I was making I think $28,000.00 a year, which to live in Manhattan, that just doesn't work. I was in this apartment that was probably supposed to be a one-bedroom but there were four of us that were living in it, and my part of the apartment was a fake wall partitioning off a corner of the living room.

Bobbi Rebell:
Probably illegal, too.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
We know all about those.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes, I'm sure it was illegal, and it was taking up an entire paycheck every month. And my mom lived about an hour outside of the city. We've always been such close friends, my mom and I, and she would come into the city to take me out for dinner because I definitely couldn't afford to go to a restaurant on my own. And then she would be like, "Let me help you out," and she would take me shopping, and she would buy me fancy shoes. Like Jimmy Choo. Like the fancy-

Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you going in the Jimmy Choos?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know. And I would be like, "Mom, that's so nice of you to buy me Jimmy Choo shoes, but can you help me pay my rent? That's where I really need help."

Bobbi Rebell:
At one point you couldn't buy a Metro Card, right?

Randi Zuckerber:
That's right. There was one month that I had to walk everywhere because I didn't budget well, and I couldn't afford the $120.00 or whatever it was at that time for a monthly Metro Card. And so I walked everywhere in Manhattan for a month. That's kind of the state of how I was living.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were you walking everywhere in the Jimmy Choos, though?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know, right? Luckily I had fancy shoes to walk in, so you know, good for that. But I would turn to her and I'd be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope." She was like, "You know, it's really important that you make it on your own, you're a professional woman. It's really important that you cover the basics of your life on your own." She's like, "But I'm here to show you what to aspire to."

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
"The reason that you're working hard and to show you that it's okay when you do make that money later in life to treat yourself, and just spend a little bit of that money on yourself."

Bobbi Rebell:
Nice. So for our listeners, what is the lesson from that? What is the takeaway? How can they apply it to their own lives?

Randi Zuckerber:
For me at the time, it definitely felt a little frustrating. It was frustrating that I could barely afford a Metro Card but I had this closet full of beautiful designer shoes. But at the end, when I do look back now on those periods of my life, I'm proud of myself for supporting myself. Even though it was hard. Even though I was barely making any money at all, I look back on those years with pride that I took care of all my own living expenses, that I made it on my own. And I actually still have those Jimmy Choo shoes in my closet as a reminder, the first big girl items that I really ever owned, and they always serve as a reminder to me that the reason that we work so hard in life is not just to accumulate wealth or status. It's so we can treat ourselves and we can treat the people we love, and we can really enjoy our lives and our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so would you do the same lesson with your own children, knowing what you know now?

Randi Zuckerber:
Maybe I would keep the receipt in the box in case they needed to return it to help pay their rent. My mom used to take-

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, did you ever try to return the shoes?

Randi Zuckerber:
No, she purposely would take the receipts home with her so I couldn't, and in those days there wasn't eBay to sell them on or things like that. But honestly, if my kids were motivated and ambitious and driven enough to think of ways to resell them, then that's great, that's teaching them an entrepreneurial lesson.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your money tip, because it's something we haven't talked about here on Financial Grownup, in part because I don't know a lot about it, and that's kind of your point. What is your money tip?

Randi Zuckerber:
So my money tip is to make sure that you're not just focusing all of your effort on learning about the systems that are already in place. Make sure that you're spending some time thinking about the new financial trends that are going to be coming out in the next few years. Specifically I think the biggest trend that's going to hit this industry is cryptocurrency and blockchain. I know I've personally spent a lot of time over the past two years learning about this space and educating myself, and I think it's so important for women especially to learn about this space, because right now only about 2% of cryptocurrency is owned and traded by women. And ladies, what's the use of catching up with our financial knowledge over here if we're then just going to be completely left behind in ten years on the next new thing that's making all of these new millionaires? I don't know about you guys, I don't want to be left out of the next thing that's making all these millionaires, so I think it's really important, even if you're not investing in this space, to at least understand it enough to be able to participate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where is the best place people can learn more about it?

Randi Zuckerber:
I love listening to a lot of podcasts. I actually am so passionate about educating women that I literally just sat in my closet with a microphone this week and recorded a two-hour introduction to Bitcoin and Blockchain that I'm about to release. So I'll definitely give you more information on that, and it's specifically designed to teach women the basics of crypto.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. So now we have where we can go, I will make sure to put the link into the show notes for everyone. So that's your gift to our listeners, thank you so much, Randi. This is great. Okay, so now we get back to what I really want to talk about. So I've got this book here with all of these ... I almost ran out of post-it notes, because I have so many post-it notes in the book, and we have to keep it short because this is a short podcast. But it's basically about being lopsided and being okay with that. And that's almost how you got into college, was just saying, "I'm not going to apologize for not being balanced."

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally, well I think, and I'm sure, Bobbi, when you think about the things in your life you're most proud of, the things you hope we're alive to tell our great-grandkids about, each of us have three or four things on that list that we're super proud of. It's probably not times in your life that you were super well-balanced. For me, that list right now is completing a marathon, singing on Broadway, being part of Facebook, and having my two children, and not one of those four things happened when I had balance in my life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
All of those things happened when I really allowed myself to just go for it and be super lopsided and prioritize a few areas in my life at one time. And so I want to give especially women out there permission to pick three. Pick a few things in your life that you want to prioritize, because there will be other times and other phases to pick other things and round out your life. But just give yourself the permission to go for it and be excellent in whatever you want to do without the guilt.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. One of my favorite areas was when you talk about quick fixes if you're feeling exhausted, and I say that because this book is also very practical, because people feel overwhelmed and there are very specific solutions in the book. Even at the end there's worksheets so that people can make it applicable to their own lives and really make it specific and actionable.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you, well you know, I live in the real world. In an ideal world we'd all be getting a lot of sleep every night, and going to the gym, and spending time with our children every day, and doing all of these things, but at the end of the day we all live in the real world, and I know that there's some days that you just cannot pick sleep. Your kids are sick, you have a deadline at work, there's something going on, you have an early plane to catch, so I tried to also, while encouraging people to pick different areas, also tried to give some hacks to actually get around it and still function in your life if you can't pick that one area.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's three, and the five things that you're picking three from are sleep, work, friends, family and fitness, and the great thing about the book is you break down each one.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes. I try to break it down, and I also really tried to interview a mixture of people across all ages and walks of life. Because if you're in the position that you can pick which areas of your life you want to prioritize then you're in a real state of privilege, that everything in your life is going so well that you can choose. There are a lot of people out there who have life circumstances where they just can't choose what they want to focus on. Life picks for them. And so I wanted to make sure that all different people are represented.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi, where can people find you and learn more about everything you're up to, including Pick Three?

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much, I have been known to be available on a few social media channels.

Bobbi Rebell:
A few.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yup, [inaudible 00:13:14] Facebook, and one's owned by Facebook. But yes, you can find me on Facebook, on Instagram and Twitter, I'm @randizuckerberg, and then Pick Three is available on Amazon or any of your favorite bookstores. I love indie bookstores and promoting them, so go pick it up at a cool indie bookstore near you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all, and keep in touch.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much Bobbi, this is awesome, love your podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, I think we all have a good sense of how Randi stays so grounded despite literally being on the go all the time. I have been personal witness to that. Prioritize and keep perspective.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: You may have noticed that one area of Randi's book really hit me. All of our lives look like so much fun online. So many of us, myself included, have felt a little wistful when we see photos and videos of friends who always seem to be vacationing while in the perfect outfit, and going to a fantastic concert where of course they get to see Beyonce and hang out with her and Jay-Z backstage. Just kidding, but only about part of that. But we are all actually usually happy that they're having fun, it's not necessarily competitive, but still. Remember, it is a curated version of their life. Real life can't be edited, and filters don't work outside of the digital world. Randi's advice that really resonates with me? Flip that back to what you can control, and be a little more intentional about what you post, about the image that you put out there to other people. Don't just post your own perfect moments, try to be more authentic with your social media, and maybe we'll all get the hint and be a little more real.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's all go out and learn about Bitcoin. I said learn, not invest, though you can if it's right for you. The truth is, as Randi said, we may be missing a big opportunity. I always think of famous investors like Warren Buffett who say they don't invest in anything they don't understand. So let's understand and make a decision from a point of understanding and information. I was recently at a retreat called Statement Event, it was women thought leaders, a very small group of us, about 17. We had dinner with a CEO of a company called Empower, and he asked this group of all women how many of us talked about Bitcoin as an investment option for our followers or listeners. The room got silent. He asked, had we really investigated? Nope. I'm going to check out Randi's tutorial, and I will leave the link for you guys as well. Let me know what you think. Make sure to pick up your copy of her new book, Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day) and write a review for Randi. Authors love reviews.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. The show has been growing, so please keep sharing on social media, writing reviews on iTunes aka Apple Podcast, and subscribing if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a money story that you want to share? Maybe a great money tip? We are starting to have listeners as guests once a month, so to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and just tell us what money story and money tip you would share if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, Facebook I am at Bobbi Rebell. Randi Zuckerberg really nailed it in this episode, helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.