Making time for face time is the best use of time for Bring Your Human to Work author Erica Keswin. She credits her biggest business successes to making the time to connect in person-even when there is no time.

In Erica’s money story you will learn:

-How face-to-face meetings have impacted Erica's business

-Hacks that create more time in your schedule 

In Erica’s money lesson you will learn:

-The benefits of being positive at work
-Strategic steps that make scheduling in person meetings easier

In Erica’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The negative side of multitasking

-The benefits of getting to know the local Starbucks barista

Bobbi and Erica also talk about:

Groups that Eat Together Perform Better Together - Cornell University Study

In My Take you will learn:

-What phubbing is and how to avoid it

-Tips to forming real connections at work

EPISODE LINKS:

Get Erica’s new book Bring Your Human To Work!

Learn more about the Spaghetti Project!

Follow Erica!!

Instagram @ericakeswin

Twitter @Erica_Keswin

Linked In @Erica Keswin 

Listen to Erica’s friend Shelley Zalis on the Financial Grownup podcast !

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Transcription

Erica Keswin:
I didn't have time for this meeting, but by investing one hour, which then led to two hours, in that face to face meeting over breakfast, I not only gained a friend but a true business partner.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. You guys know I talk a lot about my walks with friends. Save money, save calories, and all the big ideas that come out of those walks. Today's guest, Bring Your Human to Work author Erica Keswin, is one of my favorite walking buddies, and one of my most motivating and inspiring friends. Just quickly want to welcome our newest listeners, and welcome back everyone else. We keep the shows to about 15 minutes because you're busy, but if you have a little more time, feel free to binge listen, and tell someone you care about to listen as well, so we can grow the show. Of course, please do all the things. Subscribe, rate, review. Do a screen grab if you can. Share it on social, and make sure to tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Erica Keswin. She spent years working as a consultant, partnering with top researchers, and as I personally witnessed, traveling the globe, literally, to interview the most innovative business leaders in person, and you will appreciate why that face time is priceless. IRL all the way. It matters. The result? Bring Your Human to Work: 10 Surefire Ways to Design a Workplace That's Good for People, Great for Business, and Just Might Change the World, which is endorsed by big names, including ... You ready, guys? Katie Couric, Arianna Huffington, Adam Grant, and one of my favorite authors, Charles Duhigg, who you may know as the author of The Power of Habit. This is big, guys. I'm so excited to bring you this interview. Here is Erica Keswin.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Erica Keswin. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Erica Keswin:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I just finished reading your amazing new book, Bring Your Human to Work. It is a very well-researched book, going into depth on a number of companies from JetBlue, to Rebecca Minkoff, and you brought us a money story that has to do with the theme of Bring Your Human to Work. Tell us your money story.

Erica Keswin:
Sure. Last year, I was honored by an organization with an event called 10 Women to Watch. We had our first phone call with all 10 of us about six months before the event, and we went around and introduced ourselves in alphabetical order, and the last person to go was a woman named Shelley Zalis, founder of The Girls' Lounge, and The Female Quotient, and I know she was recently on your show as well, so it's a small world. I had heard of Shelley. I knew her name, but we had never met, and never talked on the phone. When she got done with her introduction, I remember saying to myself, "Wow. This is somebody who is very aligned on so many issues, and perspectives, and things that I think about, and I can not wait to meet her in person." What I didn't know on that call is that when she heard my introduction, she actually felt the same way.

Erica Keswin:
About two months later, I found myself in Los Angeles for a series of work meetings, and I was literally back to back, but I said to myself, "You know what? This is where Shelley lives. I'm gonna reach out, send her an email, and see if she has time to grab breakfast." I did. Long story short, the next morning, we met for breakfast, and the rest is history. She shared with me that she had that same feeling when she heard my introduction. We sat there. We were gonna meet for an hour. We each had meetings. We postponed our meetings, and we ended up there probably for close to two hours in that first meeting, and since that time, we've done work together, supported each other, become friendly. I interviewed her for my book. I've spoken at a number of her Girls' Lounges, and when I walked out of that meeting, I literally said to myself, "I didn't have time for this meeting, but by investing one hour, which then led to two hours in that face to face meeting over breakfast, I not only gained a friend, but a true business partner." It's a good reminder.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because being in person does make all the difference, especially when we spend so much time, as you say, left to our own devices. That's one of my favorite Erica catch phrases.

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. Left to our own devices, we're not connecting, and we need to be intentional. I try to meet at least one or two people in person every week. I mean, you and I will go decide ... That's one of the ways we got to know each other. We decided to go for a walk.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Erica Keswin:
And we didn't need to go for [inaudible 00:05:01], but we could actually go for a walk in the park around the reservoir. I know how great it is when I meet with people face to face, and I can't do it all the time, but by carving out a chunk of my week or my month to do it, it is good for me personally, but it's also been great for my business.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it also allows a space where you know, hopefully, somebody is not multitasking, because very often when we're on these work phone calls, we are distracted. When you're in person, unless you're rude and you're looking at your phone all the time, but I know you and Shelley are not, you're actually in the moment and you're focused on what's going on with that person.

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. I mean, we've all been on those calls where you say, "Erica, what do you think?" And I say, "Wait. What?" Then we all know what I was doing, and it was not honoring that relationship and being present. The technology is designed to suck us in, but again, we need to build in that intention or it won't happen, sadly.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson, then, for our listeners? Because so many of them are saying, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't have time."

Erica Keswin:
The lesson for them is to make the time, be strategic, and I know I've used this word a few times, but it's one of the most important things that I think about, which is be intentional. Look at your week. I know many, many people, every day, they'll take 30 minutes for lunch, and they'll make their doctor's appointments for themselves, or if they have kids, make them for their kids, and sit in their office, and get through their to-do lists. You can't not do that five days a week, so maybe just pick two days where you're gonna walk down the hall, or walk outside the office and meet somebody for a cup of coffee. Fit it into your schedule. All of us can look strategically at their calendar and say to themselves, "Does my calendar match my values?" If this is important to me, you can make it happen, and whether you use a paper calendar, or Google Calendar, the data will be clear, because you can look at where and how you spent your time.

Bobbi Rebell:
All kidding aside, I mean, we absolutely are friends, and we meet to walk as friends, but we have done a lot of talking about each other's businesses. I mean, your other business, the Spaghetti Project, I remember being so excited hearing about that with another friend, Caroline, on a walk. I still remember that walk, because I remember that "aha" moment when I was, "Oh my gosh. Erica is onto something really big." And it happened on one of our walks.

Erica Keswin:
No, it did. It did. The inspiration for the Spaghetti Project came out of research I was doing for the book, and I came across this study out of Cornell University by a professor named Kevin Nixon. Kevin's father was a firefighter, and when he was getting his advanced degree, he studied firefighters and studied firehouses. What he found was that the firefighters who were the most dedicated to that longstanding tradition of the firehouse meal, sitting around the table, building trust, investing in relationships, it was highly correlated with performance, meaning they saved more lives. That was a real goosebump moment for me, and I'm not out there saying we all need to eat together all the time. I know you and I decided to walk together, but there is a correlation between investing in connection and your own personal bottom line, and that of your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
That gives me the perfect intro to your everyday money tip, because that has to do with connecting with the people that we interact with in our daily lives.

Erica Keswin:
Every day, I go into my local Starbucks, and I got to know my local barista. Her name is Ashley Peterson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Featured in your book.

Erica Keswin:
Yup. She's featured in my book, and we developed a relationship over time. She took an interest in me. This was before the app, but she would have my drink ready when she saw me walking in. She got to know my kids. I got to know her personal story. What that led to was that she really would look out for me. Again, whether it was having my drink ready, if she could see the look in my face when I was late for school.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're never late, Erica. You?

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. I am pretty on time to early, but you never know. One of your kids has a tantrum in the morning, it could make you late. But then something so amazing and inspirational happened, again, based on this authentic connection that I had with Ashley. Ashley noticed that one of my kids, my daughter Caroline, developed this taste for their pumpkin scones, which only come out around ... They're seasonal, so they only have them around Halloween. But by November, they were gone. I'll give you only a piece of the story, because you'll read it in the book, but long story short, it's November 4th, Caroline had had her last pumpkin scone. We went by Starbucks. I got my coffee, but there was nothing else to get, and we kept walking to school.

Erica Keswin:
The next thing you know, I hear Ashley calling my name, literally running down Broadway, and I think I'd left my wallet or something in the store, given, again, this was before I bought my drink on the Starbucks app. She ran over, and was breathing so heavy, and she said, "Caroline, I know we're out of pumpkin scones, but now it's November into December and it's Christmas time, and we just got our amazing gingerbread into the store. I think it's something that you might like." It made my day. It made my daughter's day. I have to say, she didn't love gingerbread, especially as much as the pumpkin, but it was this moment for me where I thought, "Wow." This was so unbelievable. It was so human, and she did it because she looked out for me, and we had been mutually building that relationship over time. That became the inspiration for Bring Your Human to Work, because that is what Ashley did in that moment.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Let's talk more about Bring Your Human to Work. I think it was Do Something, where you talk a lot about the desk strategy, and how that office is set up, because the space that we work in also has a big impact on productivity and therefore the success of a company, and the success of you as an employee.

Erica Keswin:
Yes. 100%. One of the chapters in the book is called Space Matters, and what I would say to your audience is that I'm not talking necessarily that you have to go out and spend millions and millions of dollars to have the fanciest space and necessarily look like Google or Facebook. I'm talking about you can think strategically about your space, how people interact, and it doesn't have to cost anything, or doesn't have to cost much. Their phrase, they have something called "the reaping," which is a term named after Games of Thrones, which I'll admit I have not seen the show, but they come in every six months, and everybody knows the day before when the reaping is going to happen, and you come in, and you pick out of a hat, and the first person that picks gets to decide where he or she wants to sit, and then they go from there. One of the interesting things that I've seen in many companies is that if you have a startup, everybody does everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Erica Keswin:
Right? I mean, you and I both know. We're running our own small business. We do everything. But then as you grow and you scale, it is very natural to become more siloed. All of a sudden, if you have 15 people in your company and you're all together all the time, that feels very different than when you're at 100 people or 500 people. However, the more people can talk to each other across functions, it's better for business. Your space impacts performance when you're able to mix up where people sit and how they move around the space, and bump into each other. It not only is good for people to build those connections, but it has a real impact on your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. So excited. The book is finally coming out after so much work I know you've put into it. I'm excited for everyone to finally get to read it. Tell us more.

Erica Keswin:
Great. Yeah. The book comes out on September 25. It's available for pre-order now on Amazon. Just look up Bring Your Human to Work, and if you want to find me, my website is EricaKeswin.com, E-R-I-C-A, K-E-S as in Sam, W-I-N. If you want to learn more about the Spaghetti Project, it's SpaghettiProject.com. You can find me on Instagram, @EricaKeswin, and on Twitter, @Erica_Keswin.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erica, this has been so wonderful and so special, so thank you for joining us.

Erica Keswin:
Thank you for having me. It was great.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Listening to Erica, I feel like I got a whole new perspective on how people interact with each other, not only in person, but also in the way that we communicate through technology. One of those is Financial Grownup tip number one. One of Erica's observations that we didn't get to talk about was something called "fubbing," or phone snubbing. It's when you look at someone directly in the eye, but at the same time, you're texting on your phone. It is a skill that I personally don't have, but it's a thing apparently. Don't do it, even if you do have that skill. As you will read in Erica's book, research has shown this kind of multitasking is not just rude, it's bad for business. Read more in her book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Bring Your Human to Work, as Erica says, but don't leave it at the office. Keep it with you in life. In other words, bring your human to life too, and take a lot of these lessons in addition to work, to your relationships outside of work. For example, next time you are talking to a salesperson or a waiter, or say, just ordering coffee, address the person by name, and look them in the eye. They're gonna appreciate it. It will likely get you better service and make for a better experience for both of you, and as a bonus, sometimes you'll get special treatment, as Erica and her daughter did with Ashley from Starbucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for your support. Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast at the [inaudible 00:14:39] awards, which recognizes excellence in money-related content creation. I wrote a pretty long post on it on Instagram, so follow me on Instagram, and check it out for some interesting background on me, and on the Financial Grownup Podcast, and how I got here. I am @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, @BobbiRebell on Twitter, and learn more about the podcast at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. Don't forget to check out Erica Keswin's new book, Bring Your Human to Work, great ideas for everyone to make their work and their life a little more human, and of course, thanks to Erica for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

The College Investor’s Robert Farrington loved his job at Target. He was also well paid. But he loved his family more. So he made the tough decision to leave and focus full-time on the side hustle that was already throwing off even more income. 

In Robert’s money story you will learn:

-The value of time and how Robert made the decision to leave a job he loved in order to spend more time with him family

-How Robert grew his side hustle from no income into his full-time business

-Advice on how to leave a job on great terms

In Robert’s money lesson you will learn:

-His take on the benefits of growing a side hustle

-The specific obstacles Robert prepared for before taking the lead in his business

In Robert’s every day money tip you will learn:

-The truth behind retail shopping myths

-Quick tips on saving money while grocery shopping

-The number one Black Friday tip

Bobbi and Robert also talk about:

-Where the idea for his website started

-His regrets about leaving his job

-The College Investor and the resources offered online

-The College Investor 6 minute audio show on Apple Music

In My Take you will learn

-How to be honest with employers about having a side hustle - while not oversharing

-How spending time with family during the holidays can be more valuable than rushing out for Black Friday Deals

 

EPISODE LINKS:

Follow Robert!!

Instagram @thecollegeinvestor

Youtube @TheCollegeInvestor

Linkedin Robert Farrington

Listen to The College Investor Podcast https://apple.co/2CqMuC3 

Learn more on The College Investor website https://thecollegeinvestor.com/ 

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Transcription

Robert Farrington:
Am I really able to say that I value the time I spend with my family and stuff when I'm missing Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and weekends and not able to go to birthday parties?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, get ready for an episode not really about money, but about living a rich life with your family. It's about the price of your time and the value of your time, and for many of us, not all time is created equal. Target store manager, Robert Farrington, had the money, but he wanted the time. Not just any time. Nights, weekends, and holidays, specifically, the times that most of us get to be with our families, but in retail, not so much. Fortunately, he had something else going on. More on that in a sec.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, a quick welcome to our new listeners and to our returning ones. If you like the show, take a screen grab, share it on social. Then subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes, and make sure that you have it set in the settings for automatic download. With that, let us get to Robert Farrington's story. He now runs a little site. It's actually a really big deal website called The College Investor. And for you early stage entrepreneurs, it was a side hustle with literally zero income. Yes, zero income, no money coming in for the first two years, but that was a while back. He'll tell you more about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, it is his full-time business and it is growing. You're going to love this story. Here is, the College Investor. It's Robert Farrington.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Robert Farrington. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Robert Farrington:
Hey. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are ... And this is trademarked, my friends. You are America's student loan debt expert. You're also the founder and editor of The College Investor, so you have a lot of knowledge to share with us.

Robert Farrington:
Whew. You kind of scare me when you say it all, but yeah. I'm excited to share with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us a quick summary of what The College Investor is and then we're going to move into your money story.

Robert Farrington:
Sounds great. So, The College Investor was started by me as a side hustle in college, because I wanted to share my thoughts on how to invest. But everybody that I knew was like, "That's cool Robert, but I have student loans and other things and I just can't get there yet."

Robert Farrington:
So over the last few years, we've kind of incorporated more about getting out of student loan debt, getting out of debt in general, and how to build wealth so you can start investing even in your early 20s, or in college, so that you can build wealth and set those financial footprints in motion for your future.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, this is where it gets really cool and exciting, because you've been working on this for a very long time. You are married. You have two young children, the oldest one going into kindergarten. You were full time at Target until a year ago and this was your side hustle. And then you were able to make the decision to flip the switch and take your side hustle full time. And that's your money story. Tell us more Robert.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. So about three years ago, I started earning more than my Target job. You know, we were just stashing the money away and didn't really have any plans to leave because you have to understand, I have loved working at Target. It was a great company to work for. I had been there a long time. I was comfortable there. I was probably one of the top performers in my area, so life was really good at Target. But there is one big drawback about working in retail and that is that you have to work nights and weekends, and holidays.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even if you were the manager by then. You were pretty senior.

Robert Farrington:
Right, but I also believe in being a leader, so I would still work my weekends with my team. I would work a night a week with my team and then as the leader, I definitely had to be there on Black Friday and throughout the holiday season. It meant having Thanksgiving lunch at like 12:00 and then going to work at 2:00 in the afternoon on Thanksgiving day, so that we're ready to go when the store opens.

Robert Farrington:
That really became hard as my kids were getting older.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so tell me about the conversation that you had with your wife when this decision was made.

Robert Farrington:
It really was a series of decisions. First off, it was like, this is a cool side hustle. Let's not change anything. And then it was like, wow this is really becoming more of a thing and we can live off this business income on the side. And you don't need to work there. Finally, I really had to think about what we valued as a family. So my wife and I were talking and you hear these things like, "Show me your money and show me your time, and it will tell you what you value." So, am I really able to say that I value the time I spend with my family and stuff, when I'm missing Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and weekends, and not able to go to birthday parties.

Robert Farrington:
So, it was really really hard to leave something I was so comfortable with, but at the same time I also wasn't living my truth in that I wasn't necessarily doing exactly what I valued. And we could afford it. I could afford the life I wanted to, and said that I wanted to. And that really was a big part of our conversation with my wife.

Robert Farrington:
The second thing is, is contingency plans. We always had these conversations. I run an online business, so it's like, what happens if the internet goes out tomorrow? Right? Are we going to be financially okay if suddenly there is no income stream. So, it really was about planning and making sure we had enough saved and if the internet did stop tomorrow and I left my day job, would we be okay financially? And we kind of checked all these boxes and once those were all yeses, it was setting a timeline up for when does it make the most sense to leave?

Bobbi Rebell:
They knew about the side hustle right?

Robert Farrington:
It was one of those things. I never hid it, but I was never fully overt about it. It had been on my LinkedIn profile for a decade. My peers, every now and then, I'd get student loan questions from my peers. They'd be like, "I'm trying to pay off my student loans. Can you help me?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, but did the Target management know that this was producing more income than they were paying you?

Robert Farrington:
I never shared that, so I'm 99% sure that they had no idea. In fact, I know most of them didn't because when I left and afterwards, they had a little going away party for me and like, "We wish you the best of luck. We hope this all works well for you."

Bobbi Rebell:
So they had no idea?

Robert Farrington:
Yeah, and I never hid that. So that's the interesting thing. If no one asked, I was very candid. I've been candid even for the last seven, eight years online. On different podcasts and interviews and stuff, so it's out there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did they ever think maybe we should pay him more? If he can make more from a blog, maybe we're underpaying him? Was there any kind of conversation like that, ever?

Robert Farrington:
It's hard, because I was extremely well paid. It was a nice six-figure ... I don't think people realize what you make at Target, but I was, with my bonuses and stuff, I was probably making about $180,000/year when I left.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So, let's go back to quitting. So, how did you actually quit?

Robert Farrington:
So, I really did think about this and planned it out. Because I also, like I said, I wanted to leave on really good terms. I didn't want to burn any bridges, so I actually, my wife and I finalized our plans for leaving in February, or March of last year. We said we're going to leave in September. And I thought this was very respectful from the workload that was going on at Target, but it was also enough time that they could have enough leeway to have everything in place before the holiday season.

Robert Farrington:
I decided that we're going to give a month notice, so I actually told my boss in August. And I probably gave about five and a half, six weeks notice. But I was fully ... You hear these horror stories like, if they were going to walk me out that day or something crazy, I was fully prepared to leave that day. But I was going to be very respectful, and so when my boss came in August, I would say she comes like once or twice a month. When she came in, I just pulled her into my office and said, "I have something really important to share with you." She had no idea what was coming. I said, "Hey. So I have some big changes I want to tell you. I am going to be resigning and I'm going to be pursuing my own endeavors outside of Target. Spending more time with my family."

Robert Farrington:
And the look of shock, she actually texted me like four hours later. So I told her at probably 4:00 in the afternoon, so this was like 8:00 at night. She's like, "I cannot believe this. This is crazy. I'm totally shocked." I totally caught her off guard. But I gave them, like I said, almost six weeks notice. So, I felt like I left in the most respectful and terms possible. Which I also think is the best way to possibly leave if you are going to leave.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the reaction around your store?

Robert Farrington:
Most of them were pretty excited for me. I think all my direct reports actually were much more aware of everything then anybody else above me. And so, it was less of a shock, but same thing. I'm also very diligent in how you let people know, so make sure you have a very strong hierarchy of letting my senior managers know. And then just announcing it downward. Clear communication before I even let them know. So, I don't think I let them know until about a week and a half after I let my boss know. So my boss already had some plans in place, and we were able to share some very specific plans, which I think is really important when you transition in any workplace.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there things you would do differently, looking back?

Robert Farrington:
I honestly would probably do it sooner. It's one of those things, I was so worried about all these random variables. And I probably gave an extra year or two to Target. And like I said, it's a great company but at the same time, what could I have done in those extra year or two when I could have left longer. That's the only real regret I have.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?

Robert Farrington:
I think the big lesson is, if you grow this side hustle with your time and energy outside of work instead of watching TV shows, or doing whatever non-productive things you're probably doing outside of work, you could turn this into a full-time job that you're passionate about, you love, and it works with your schedule. So, I think it's definitely a clear path that you can actually achieve if you want to put the time and effort into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your everyday money tip. We're going to tap into your knowledge as a retail expert, having seen it all, from the grassroots level. Tell us what people can do to save money and be better shoppers at stores, not necessarily just Target, but stores like Target. What can they know about pricing, about sales, and so on?

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. Let's debunk some of these myths first. So first off, I always love these Buzzfeed articles that come out. What digits are the last ones that you know what the markdowns are?

Robert Farrington:
Well, let's talk a little bit about math. So almost every price in retail ends in 99 cents, right? So, when you mark something down half off, it's always going to end in eight. Because that's just math. And so when you mark it down 75% off, for the third time, or the second markdown, it's going to end in a four. So, these math strategies that they say are secret hacks, is really just the math of the sales. It's true.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Robert Farrington:
I think people just need to realize that. I think the best thing ... The other thing that people need to realize is that, almost every store Target included, puts the same things on sale every two weeks. So it just alternates, so if you're a regular grocery shopper, you'll notice this a lot. Especially in food, because one week it'll be Coke on sale, the next week it'll be Pepsi on sale. And then it goes back to Coke on sale. Then it goes back to Pepsi on sale. And it's the same sale. It's just goes alternating every other week. And you see this in almost every major retailer, so one, if you have really strong brand allegiance, align your shopping habits with your sale week and you'll probably find that you're going to get that same sale every time you go in because it will line up with your shopping habits.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you said you always have to work, you've always had to work the holidays and especially Black Friday. What's your number one Black Friday tip?

Robert Farrington:
The number one Black Friday tip is that all the ads come online about a month before Black Friday. So you can plan out all your shopping ahead of time. And you have to realize that the door busters at every store, there's only about 10 to maybe 50 of that item. And so, if there's one thing that you really really really really can't live without, if you're not the first 10 to 50 people in line, you're probably not going to get it. So don't waste your time going out there.

Robert Farrington:
The second thing though, that's really emerged over the last couple years is online shopping. So at the same time, a lot of these companies are trying to compete with each other and they're moving their Black Friday sales online and they're moving them on to the week before Black Friday. So you can get a lot of the same great deals online, but without even going to the store, about a week before you even shop.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk more about what's going on with The College Investor. So this is your full-time passion project, slash income, slash growing company. You've got a whole staff there now. You're managing that now. What are you priorities? Where is your growth going to come from? What can people expect and look forward to there?

Robert Farrington:
So if you want to know anything about getting out of student loan debt, and starting to invest, The College Investor has it for you. We have pretty much every topic around student loan debt covered and you know, sadly as much as I don't want this to be the growing reason for our growth, student loan debt in America is growing and it's such a problem for most people. So we have your answers. We have tools and resources that can help you. If you don't like to read, you can also listen to The College Investor audio show. It's a podcast where we change our written articles into a short digestible audio show for you because I know-

Bobbi Rebell:
You love that. Love short.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. I love that.

Robert Farrington:
Short. I mean, I think I beat you because my average show time is like six to eight minutes because we're just talking about the daily article of the day.

Bobbi Rebell:
But that's perfect. That's what people need because everyone's busy. Alright, where can people ... People can obviously reach you at The College Investor, but tell me your social channels et cetera.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. You can go to thecollegeinvestor.com. You can go to The College Investor audio show. You can find us on YouTube at The College Investor and you can find us on Instagram at The College Investor.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you Robert.

Robert Farrington:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, that pricing math that Robert thinks is so obvious to everyone, I had no clue. What about you?

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on what he had to say. Financial Grownup tip number one. If you have a side hustle, follow Robert's path and be open about it at work. You don't have to be too open. When I went to write my book, How to be a Financial Grownup, the first thing I did was tell my managers and get their okay. Don't hide things. But then also, don't work on it during your work hours and you can be open about your plans, but you don't have to share the whole big picture and all your grand plans.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. I love that Robert chose family over spending time working on the holidays. The same can be said for shopping. Before you race out to get one of those amazing, say Black Friday deals, remember that Robert said, and a lot of you know this already, there are very few available. So, you'll have to get here really early and spend a lot of time, invest a lot of time, to get it. So is saving money really worth cutting into your family time on a holiday? Maybe look online, a different day, ahead of time and set a price alert. Then, if you get that alert, you can spend five minutes buying it online and get back to being with your family. Or, maybe what you have is fine and you don't buy it at all.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before we wrap up, tell me, I want to know, what's your best retail shopping tip? DM it to me. And please, take a minute to follow me on social media. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram. bobbirebell on Twitter, and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. The website to get more information about the show, bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast and for the show notes and more about Robert and the The College Investor, go to bobbirebell.com/podcast/robertfarrington and thanks to The College Investor's Robert Farrington for bringing us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Entrepreneur Melissa Clark had a lot going on- too much. Even she was confused. She was a wellness practitioner, creating content on many platforms including local tv, podcasting, video and books, including a children’s book, as well as coaching and speaking businesses focused on women’s empowerment. But letting go and narrower her focus was a challenge. 

In Melissa’s money story you will learn:

-How Melissa started a business based on her passion for Reiki and wellness

-How the business was evolving in unexpected ways

-The difficult choice she had to make to pare back parts of the business in order to build up the ones that were resonating with her audience

In Melissa’s money lesson you will learn:

-How Melissa prioritized her business growth

-The criteria she used to focus her energy on certain parts of her business

-How she got it all done while working a full-time job!!

In Melissa’s every day money tip you will learn:

-How to self-publish a book for free or without upfront costs

-The things you might want to pay for

-Specifically how Melissa used Create Space

-The advantages of print on demand, especially for special occasions

-Whether you should consider producing an audio guide

-How digital guides can be a great option to save costs

Bobbi and Melissa also talk about

-The She Shift brand and her book

-Melissa’s new partnerships with women’s organizations

-Melissa’s speaking business and her podcast

In My Take you will learn:

-How to pivot your business to focus on the areas that are resonating with your audience

-They key sign it doesn’t make sense to other people- is when they tell you they are confused

-The importance of consistency in brand building

-The difference between procrastinating and taking the right amount of time for a project aka not putting something out there before it is ready. 

Episode Links

Learn More about The She Shift TheSheShift.com

Follow Melissa and the She Shift!

Facebook TheSheShift

Twitter @thesheshift

Instagram @thesheshift

LinkedIn :Melissa Clark

Create Space

 

Entrepreneur Melissa Clark had a lot going on- too much. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode we discuss how Melissa prioritized her business growth and the criteria she used to focus her energy on certain parts of her business. #Rebranding #FinancialGrownup #RebrandSmallBusiness #Author

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Transcription

Melissa Clark:
Reiki was something that really helped me in my own life, so I was very passionate about helping other people. It was growing slowly. Trying to figure out how to tie everything in together, that was actually a little bit of a challenge because people knew that I was doing all of these things, but they weren't related so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup". And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, this is an episode that makes me really proud of our guest. She is Melissa Clark, and her relatively new brand is The She Shift. More on that in a sec. Not long ago, Melissa thought she was building a wellness business as a Reiki practitioner under the brand The Wholistic Package. The brand clarity was an issue because she had so much going on. She had a children's book, she was working as a speaker, she was hosting a local TV show, she had a line of inspirational apparel, and a book on women and ambition, and videos, and lots of content. So much content. And this was also, by the way, her side hustle.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before we get to her story, quick welcome to our newest listeners and welcome back to our regulars. We are all busy, so we try to keep the podcast here to what we call flex time. The episodes are around fifteen minutes, but if you have a little more time, stack them together, binge, whatever you want to call it. It is about making it work for you. Make sure to subscribe, and you will get three a week. Go into settings and just confirm that you are on auto-download so you don't miss any, and if you still have a second, take a screenshot of the episode on your phone if that's where you're listening to it, and please share it on your social media channels. Help us to spread the word.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, let's get to Melissa Clark. Brave interview here because Melissa basically admits after I kind of confront her that yes, she had a bunch of different product lines and content going on that she could sort of justify as related, but her audience, well, a lot of the time, they were confused, I was confused, but she's got it together now. So this is a story of how she dropped what wasn't working and built up what was, and no, it did not happen overnight. This lady works a lot. Here is The She Shift's Melissa Clark.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Melissa Clark, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Melissa Clark:
Hi, Bobbi. Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the continued growth of your relatively new platform. We're going to talk about that. She Shift, which is not only a website, a blog, it's also a book, it's also a podcast, and it is growing. You're also a speaker. And it's all about empowering women.

Melissa Clark:
Yes, very much so. And I'm very excited to have launched that last year and all of the amazing things, as you said, under that umbrella.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's not just a launch of that, it was actually a shift in and of itself. It was a rebrand. You made some tough decisions and had to let some things go. Tell us your money story about this rebrand and pivoting of what you were doing in your whole business

Melissa Clark:
A few years ago, I started as a wellness practitioner, a Reiki practitioner, and my business at the time was called The Wholistic Package, and in that time, I was working on wellness, I was also in the writing process. Things were shifting for myself during the past few years, and so far as working more with women through a local television show that I had in my community, through a line of inspirational apparel that I was working on, and then my book came about, and I really decided at one point that it was the right time to shift everything for myself and shift everything under one umbrella and under one brand, because for me, it really made sense to have everything under one brand that focused on women and women empowerment, and each item that I have, or service that I have, is something different, but everything has the same mission.

Melissa Clark:
I really had to almost start from scratch and create content and figure out how to change my platform, my website, my logo. So everything under The She Shift, I essentially had to start over and start from scratch and create. I basically put my head down for ten months and worked on my book and worked on my consulting packages and worked on all of the content that was going to be under that brand, and I had to figure out really what direction and where I saw that in the bigger picture. So in 2016, I started to transition with the book, and it was actually October of last year where I focused more on that specific content, and about six weeks ago, I launched every piece of content and every facet and aspect of The She Shift.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was it hard, or what did it feel like to let go of your old platform?

Melissa Clark:
As a wellness practitioner, that was something ... Reiki was something that really helped me in my own life, so I was very passionate about helping other people. It was growing slowly, but all of the other things I was working on, I published a children's book in 2015, and I was working on the inspirational apparel that I have for women. So I was kind of doing all of these different things and trying to figure out how to tie everything in together. That was actually a little bit of a challenge because people knew that I was doing all of these things, but they weren't related so much. So they were ... I was trying to make everything about our mind, body, and spirit, and improving ourselves and our well-being. But, you know, everything had a little bit of a different theme, so-

Bobbi Rebell:
It almost sounds like it was confusing to your audience.

Melissa Clark:
At points, I did get some feedback that people knew the separate pieces of what I was doing, but sometimes, they weren't quite sure either. So it was a time when I had to reevaluate what I was working on and how I could get all of these things under one umbrella because I was so passionate about working on the consulting side, and the speaking side, and my writing, and doing all of these things, but I realized at the end of the day that everything had the same message and it was the same mission, so I could then put it under the same. So it did take a little bit for me to let go of the other side of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were you running multiple social media accounts for each of these brands at the time?

Melissa Clark:
I was working on The Wholistic Package, and I then switched over. I actually had to create a brand new Facebook account. At the time, I had several hundred followers through my old business, but because I had to change the mission of the business, I had to start a new account with that, and then I ended up starting at that time, I went into the Instagram, and the Twitter, and the LinkedIn, and that's when I really started creating more content and trying to be more consistent with the social media. I've been working with the content a lot more these days because there's so much content to work with, and I do everything from videos to my podcast to different writing pieces, and I really try to keep up on all of that, but everything is under the same mission and theme now, so now I have a lot of content to work with.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from your story? I mean, it's hard to say goodbye to a brand that you created, that you put so much into. So much of your love, and so much money, time, and resources.

Melissa Clark:
Sure, so shedding that piece, which seemed to be maybe a little difficult at the time, it really brought me to where I am today, and I organically followed my path I say, because I know that this is where I'm meant to be and what I'm meant to be doing, so the lesson is sometimes you may be working on something at one point in your life, and that could change. I mean, even in the business that I have now, you never know. I always say I do think about where it's going to be five years from now, but I do take everything day by day because you really don't know where things are going to go or what opportunities are going to present themselves in your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
For your everyday money tip, you are a self-published author. This is a world I don't know that much about, but you have some brilliant advice for people that don't want to have to front any money. I didn't know this. You can pretty much at least publish, obviously there's things coming up to publishing, but you can publish almost for free, especially, this is great, not only for people that want to publish for professional reasons, but maybe you just want to publish a few for a family member, for a special occasion, for a friend's wedding, make a little mini-book or something. Tell us.

Melissa Clark:
Sure. So with my personal experience for my children's book and for my book for women in business, I've used Create Space, which I started with Create Space in 2015 is when my children's book came out. So at that time, I wrote the printed book and I had a Kindle version. And for my book for women in business, "The She Shift", I have it in a paperback, and what I love about self-publishing is that you go onto their website, you can either do it yourself or you can work with a designer and have them upload the file, and it's print on demand. So really, if you don't want to spend a lot of money for a large quantity of books up front, and let's say you plan on doing an event, a table event, or you want to buy some copies for your family, you can go in and you can select how many you'd like, and it's a print on demand. So there's not a lot of up front coasts regarding the printing of the book, and it really, I think, helps a lot of authors to save some costs in that way.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, you said you could do audio and Kindle as well, or electronic, it doesn't have to be Kindle.

Melissa Clark:
Sure, so you can do an ebook, and also now, a lot of authors are doing audio guides on Audible or through different platforms. My own audio guides, I actually recorded them myself and they're on my website. So you can do either, which that also can save costs because it's a digital file, so they're really becoming popular as well now, especially the audio guides, so it's another way for authors to save a little bit on the printing and designing costs.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. All right, let's talk about The She Shift a little bit more. You mentioned you don't know where it will be in five years. Let's talk about the next five months, the rest of 2018. What's on the agenda?

Melissa Clark:
Thank you. So right now, I'm focusing on my book launch, which is on Amazon, and then consulting, speaking, and other opportunities, and I have some speaking engagements scheduled, and I'm also partnering with some women's organizations, so I'm continuing to do those things, and I really look forward to the next six months to really seeing what's going to happen and connecting with more amazing women.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, where can everyone find out more about you and The She Shift?

Melissa Clark:
Sure. TheSheShift.com, or I'm on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, and Instagram. LinkedIn, I'm under Melissa Clark, and the others, it's under The She Shift.

Bobbi Rebell:
Melissa, this was wonderful. Thank you so much.

Melissa Clark:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, here's my take on Melissa's story. Financial grownup tip number one, your business has to make sense to other people. If you have to constantly explain how the parts fit together, they don't. And it's okay to drop products that used to work with your brand, but no longer do. It's also okay to drop a brand completely, as Melissa basically did with The Wholistic Package. And it was hard. She had put a lot into it and she loved it. But to focus on her She Shift business, she had to make some hard choices. Saying goodbye to something so much went into to make time in your day and in your mind to build up something that's better ultimately is hard, but worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, take the time. Melissa talked about this revamp going back a couple of years. A lot of that was that her day job took up a lot of her time. That's okay. So she was realistic about what it would take to get this done. Doing something methodically and carefully is not the same as procrastinating, and during that time, she was building up different parts of it to be a more cohesive brand. Being deliberate in your plans and how you allocate resources is a very financial grownup thing to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for supporting the show. I want to hear about your grownup money and business experiences. I love hearing from you and getting all kinds of feedback. On Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1, on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and on Facebook at BobbiRebell. For the show notes, go to BobbiRebell.com/podcast/MelissaClark, and all of the show notes follow the same pattern in that the last segment is just the guest's name. So we keep it really simple, you don't have to worry about what number it was, just know the guest's name and it's BobbiRebell.com/podcast/the guest's name. And while you're there, sign up for our new [inaudible 00:13:59], we're going to get it going again this fall. Looking forward to some great content there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to Melissa Clark for your candor and for such a real discussion about the challenges of being an entrepreneur, and just being a grownup, figuring out who you are and what works, and for helping all of us get one step closer to being financial grownups.

As a young woman in New York City, Randi Zuckerberg, author of “Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day)" was struggling financially. Her mom, knowing the financial strain, came armed with… luxury goods. Think Jimmy Choo shoes. But as Randi explains, the designer duds were part of a very intentional lesson, that put Randi right on track to being a financial grownup. 

 

In Randi’s money story you will learn:

-How Randi struggled to make ends meet on her first salary of just $28,000

-Why Randi’s mom would take her out and buy her luxury goods, but not help her with her every day expenses

-What Randi did when she literally could not afford to buy a metrocard for the NYC bus and subway

In Randi’s money lesson you will learn:

-How her mother’s strategy helped Randi find her path to financial independence

-If Randi still has all those shoes!

-The one thing Randi would change when she teachers her own children about money

In Randi’s money tip you will learn:

-Why she is paying attention to Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

-How you can learn more about Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

In My Take you will learn:

-How to manage social media envy

-The specific thing you can do with your own social media content to improve your experience and that of your friends

-Why and how you can learn more about bitcoin and cryptocurrency

Episode Links:

Learn more about Randi on her website Zuckerbergmedia.com

Get Randi’s book! Pick Three: You Can Have it All, Just Not Every Day

Learn about Cryptocurrency from Randi in this tutorial

 

Follow Randi!

Facebook Randi Zuckerberg

Instagram @RandiZuckerberg

Twitter @RandiZuckerberg

 

Also mentioned

Statement Event

Empower App

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Randi Zuckerber:
You know, I would turn to her and I would be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, my friend Randi Zuckerberg is known for a lot of things. It would take an entire podcast to name them all, so some highlights. She is a bestselling author of Dot Complicated, a Broadway actress and singer with a head star in Rock of Ages. She is the founder and CEO of Zuckerberg Media. Randi is also the force behind Sue's Tech Kitchen, she's got her weekly Sirius XM show, and oh, by the way, she created this little thing called Facebook Live. But her most recent project is Pick Three, which is a book about priorities, and with all that Randi has going on you bet she has had to get a handle on how to focus on what matters most, even if that changes every day. Here is Randi Zuckerberg.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi Zuckerberg, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thanks so much Bobbi, it's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Major congratulations, another, in this case soon-to-be bestseller, your new book Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day). We're going to talk more about that later on, but just high level, this is something you've had in your head basically for your whole adult life. Tell us briefly about the concept, and then we'll do more about the book later.

Randi Zuckerber:
Sure. Well, we're all juggling so many things. I know you and I, we both, we're entrepreneurs, we're moms, I feel like there's so much pressure on all of us to be perfect at everything we do. Especially you log onto Instagram and everyone's lives look so perfect and so amazing, and then it's easy to sit there and think, "Gosh, how come I don't have my act together? Why don't I have it all and have that perfect balance?" And what I've really started to feel over the years is that it's just, it's time for us to stop carrying so much guilt around. Nobody has it all. Nobody has perfect balance, no matter what their lives might look like on Instagram. And so when I thought about the times in my life I felt most proud of my accomplishments, it was not when I was balanced. It was when I gave myself permission to just prioritize and go for it in a few areas of my life, so that's what I'm writing about. It's called Pick Three, and it's work, sleep, family, friends, fitness - pick three.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And by the way, just to show how much I love this book and how obsessed I am, I actually made notes in the book already. You can learn more about Randy's philosophy on social media and how our lives always look better online, page 211. That was one of the things that I flagged. So that's how good her book is, I have a book full of little post-it notes. Okay, we're going to go back to the book, but I want to talk about your money story, because it's something that I actually related to, because something very similar happened when I was a young adult, in my case also in New York City. Tell us your money story, because it has to do with the way that your mother taught you to earn your own money, but yet still was supporting you in different ways.

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally. And it's funny, because I didn't really learn the lesson of this story until many years later. In the moment, it felt kind of random, and now I'm so thankful to my mom for that. So in the book I go a bit deeper into the story, but when I was right out of college I landed a job at an ad agency. I was making I think $28,000.00 a year, which to live in Manhattan, that just doesn't work. I was in this apartment that was probably supposed to be a one-bedroom but there were four of us that were living in it, and my part of the apartment was a fake wall partitioning off a corner of the living room.

Bobbi Rebell:
Probably illegal, too.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
We know all about those.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes, I'm sure it was illegal, and it was taking up an entire paycheck every month. And my mom lived about an hour outside of the city. We've always been such close friends, my mom and I, and she would come into the city to take me out for dinner because I definitely couldn't afford to go to a restaurant on my own. And then she would be like, "Let me help you out," and she would take me shopping, and she would buy me fancy shoes. Like Jimmy Choo. Like the fancy-

Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you going in the Jimmy Choos?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know. And I would be like, "Mom, that's so nice of you to buy me Jimmy Choo shoes, but can you help me pay my rent? That's where I really need help."

Bobbi Rebell:
At one point you couldn't buy a Metro Card, right?

Randi Zuckerber:
That's right. There was one month that I had to walk everywhere because I didn't budget well, and I couldn't afford the $120.00 or whatever it was at that time for a monthly Metro Card. And so I walked everywhere in Manhattan for a month. That's kind of the state of how I was living.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were you walking everywhere in the Jimmy Choos, though?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know, right? Luckily I had fancy shoes to walk in, so you know, good for that. But I would turn to her and I'd be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope." She was like, "You know, it's really important that you make it on your own, you're a professional woman. It's really important that you cover the basics of your life on your own." She's like, "But I'm here to show you what to aspire to."

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
"The reason that you're working hard and to show you that it's okay when you do make that money later in life to treat yourself, and just spend a little bit of that money on yourself."

Bobbi Rebell:
Nice. So for our listeners, what is the lesson from that? What is the takeaway? How can they apply it to their own lives?

Randi Zuckerber:
For me at the time, it definitely felt a little frustrating. It was frustrating that I could barely afford a Metro Card but I had this closet full of beautiful designer shoes. But at the end, when I do look back now on those periods of my life, I'm proud of myself for supporting myself. Even though it was hard. Even though I was barely making any money at all, I look back on those years with pride that I took care of all my own living expenses, that I made it on my own. And I actually still have those Jimmy Choo shoes in my closet as a reminder, the first big girl items that I really ever owned, and they always serve as a reminder to me that the reason that we work so hard in life is not just to accumulate wealth or status. It's so we can treat ourselves and we can treat the people we love, and we can really enjoy our lives and our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so would you do the same lesson with your own children, knowing what you know now?

Randi Zuckerber:
Maybe I would keep the receipt in the box in case they needed to return it to help pay their rent. My mom used to take-

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, did you ever try to return the shoes?

Randi Zuckerber:
No, she purposely would take the receipts home with her so I couldn't, and in those days there wasn't eBay to sell them on or things like that. But honestly, if my kids were motivated and ambitious and driven enough to think of ways to resell them, then that's great, that's teaching them an entrepreneurial lesson.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your money tip, because it's something we haven't talked about here on Financial Grownup, in part because I don't know a lot about it, and that's kind of your point. What is your money tip?

Randi Zuckerber:
So my money tip is to make sure that you're not just focusing all of your effort on learning about the systems that are already in place. Make sure that you're spending some time thinking about the new financial trends that are going to be coming out in the next few years. Specifically I think the biggest trend that's going to hit this industry is cryptocurrency and blockchain. I know I've personally spent a lot of time over the past two years learning about this space and educating myself, and I think it's so important for women especially to learn about this space, because right now only about 2% of cryptocurrency is owned and traded by women. And ladies, what's the use of catching up with our financial knowledge over here if we're then just going to be completely left behind in ten years on the next new thing that's making all of these new millionaires? I don't know about you guys, I don't want to be left out of the next thing that's making all these millionaires, so I think it's really important, even if you're not investing in this space, to at least understand it enough to be able to participate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where is the best place people can learn more about it?

Randi Zuckerber:
I love listening to a lot of podcasts. I actually am so passionate about educating women that I literally just sat in my closet with a microphone this week and recorded a two-hour introduction to Bitcoin and Blockchain that I'm about to release. So I'll definitely give you more information on that, and it's specifically designed to teach women the basics of crypto.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. So now we have where we can go, I will make sure to put the link into the show notes for everyone. So that's your gift to our listeners, thank you so much, Randi. This is great. Okay, so now we get back to what I really want to talk about. So I've got this book here with all of these ... I almost ran out of post-it notes, because I have so many post-it notes in the book, and we have to keep it short because this is a short podcast. But it's basically about being lopsided and being okay with that. And that's almost how you got into college, was just saying, "I'm not going to apologize for not being balanced."

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally, well I think, and I'm sure, Bobbi, when you think about the things in your life you're most proud of, the things you hope we're alive to tell our great-grandkids about, each of us have three or four things on that list that we're super proud of. It's probably not times in your life that you were super well-balanced. For me, that list right now is completing a marathon, singing on Broadway, being part of Facebook, and having my two children, and not one of those four things happened when I had balance in my life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
All of those things happened when I really allowed myself to just go for it and be super lopsided and prioritize a few areas in my life at one time. And so I want to give especially women out there permission to pick three. Pick a few things in your life that you want to prioritize, because there will be other times and other phases to pick other things and round out your life. But just give yourself the permission to go for it and be excellent in whatever you want to do without the guilt.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. One of my favorite areas was when you talk about quick fixes if you're feeling exhausted, and I say that because this book is also very practical, because people feel overwhelmed and there are very specific solutions in the book. Even at the end there's worksheets so that people can make it applicable to their own lives and really make it specific and actionable.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you, well you know, I live in the real world. In an ideal world we'd all be getting a lot of sleep every night, and going to the gym, and spending time with our children every day, and doing all of these things, but at the end of the day we all live in the real world, and I know that there's some days that you just cannot pick sleep. Your kids are sick, you have a deadline at work, there's something going on, you have an early plane to catch, so I tried to also, while encouraging people to pick different areas, also tried to give some hacks to actually get around it and still function in your life if you can't pick that one area.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's three, and the five things that you're picking three from are sleep, work, friends, family and fitness, and the great thing about the book is you break down each one.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes. I try to break it down, and I also really tried to interview a mixture of people across all ages and walks of life. Because if you're in the position that you can pick which areas of your life you want to prioritize then you're in a real state of privilege, that everything in your life is going so well that you can choose. There are a lot of people out there who have life circumstances where they just can't choose what they want to focus on. Life picks for them. And so I wanted to make sure that all different people are represented.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi, where can people find you and learn more about everything you're up to, including Pick Three?

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much, I have been known to be available on a few social media channels.

Bobbi Rebell:
A few.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yup, [inaudible 00:13:14] Facebook, and one's owned by Facebook. But yes, you can find me on Facebook, on Instagram and Twitter, I'm @randizuckerberg, and then Pick Three is available on Amazon or any of your favorite bookstores. I love indie bookstores and promoting them, so go pick it up at a cool indie bookstore near you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all, and keep in touch.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much Bobbi, this is awesome, love your podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, I think we all have a good sense of how Randi stays so grounded despite literally being on the go all the time. I have been personal witness to that. Prioritize and keep perspective.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: You may have noticed that one area of Randi's book really hit me. All of our lives look like so much fun online. So many of us, myself included, have felt a little wistful when we see photos and videos of friends who always seem to be vacationing while in the perfect outfit, and going to a fantastic concert where of course they get to see Beyonce and hang out with her and Jay-Z backstage. Just kidding, but only about part of that. But we are all actually usually happy that they're having fun, it's not necessarily competitive, but still. Remember, it is a curated version of their life. Real life can't be edited, and filters don't work outside of the digital world. Randi's advice that really resonates with me? Flip that back to what you can control, and be a little more intentional about what you post, about the image that you put out there to other people. Don't just post your own perfect moments, try to be more authentic with your social media, and maybe we'll all get the hint and be a little more real.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's all go out and learn about Bitcoin. I said learn, not invest, though you can if it's right for you. The truth is, as Randi said, we may be missing a big opportunity. I always think of famous investors like Warren Buffett who say they don't invest in anything they don't understand. So let's understand and make a decision from a point of understanding and information. I was recently at a retreat called Statement Event, it was women thought leaders, a very small group of us, about 17. We had dinner with a CEO of a company called Empower, and he asked this group of all women how many of us talked about Bitcoin as an investment option for our followers or listeners. The room got silent. He asked, had we really investigated? Nope. I'm going to check out Randi's tutorial, and I will leave the link for you guys as well. Let me know what you think. Make sure to pick up your copy of her new book, Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day) and write a review for Randi. Authors love reviews.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. The show has been growing, so please keep sharing on social media, writing reviews on iTunes aka Apple Podcast, and subscribing if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a money story that you want to share? Maybe a great money tip? We are starting to have listeners as guests once a month, so to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and just tell us what money story and money tip you would share if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, Facebook I am at Bobbi Rebell. Randi Zuckerberg really nailed it in this episode, helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

The Opposite of Spoiled author Ron Lieber dishes on the underground network he tapped into as a teen to ace the financial aid game- and gives a sneak peak into his next book “What to Pay for College".Plus Ron’s secret to getting hot tickets at below market prices- Including the Cubs.

In Ron’s money story you will learn:

-How Ron got the inside track on how to maximize financial aid for college

-How much Ron took out in loans for school and how long it took to pay it back

-Ron’s theory on how grownup’s can help cut through the information overload and  get to the important information

-Insight into how Ron researches his columns for the NYTimes

-The significance of Ron’s mom taking him to meet with "the guy”

In Ron’s money lesson you will learn:

-Ron’s advice on how to learn about the options to pay for college now

-The one thing you should not do that could hurt your ability to get the maximum financial aid

-Why financial aid applications have become so complicated over time

-Specific resources from Ron to learn more about how to pay for college, before his book comes out

In Ron’s money tip you will learn:

-About his love of experiences like concerts and baseball games

-How he is able to get discount tickets to events

-The specific strategy, including the timeline, that Ron uses to get the best prices on tickets

-The best ticket score Ron ever got, and why he was so excited about the show!

In My Take you will learn:

-How I went on a “Mentor Tour” a few years ago, before launching the Financial Grownup brand

-Why I agree with Ron, that consulting people who know more about something that you do, can be the best way to get an edge on a new venture, whether it is college, or launching a business. 

-The value add of an in-person conversation compared to doing internet research

-The importance of making children aware of the costs of higher education, whether or not they pay for part or all of it. 

EPISODE LINKS

Ron Lieber’s website: http://ronlieber.com

Ron’s NY Times Columns: NYTimes.com/Lieber

Get Ron’s book The Opposite of Spoiled

Learn more about Ron’s upcoming book “What to pay for college”

Resources recommended by Ron Lieber

Paying for College without going Broke by Kal Cheney

SavingforCollege.com

Follow Ron!!

Twitter @RonLieber

Instagram @ronlieber

Facebook.com/RonLieberAuthor

 

 StubHub is where Ron goes to get last minute discount tickets!

---

Transcription

Ron Lieber:
Somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to financial grown up with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup and you know what being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's OK. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So Ron Lieber, famous, very famous New York Time's money columnist, super nice guy, also the author of the upcoming book What to Pay for College, the best seller The Opposite of Spoiled. He knew a guy. As he describes it it was basically an underground financial aid information network. This really happened. Before we get to Ron's unbelievable story, can't believe this really happened, I do want to welcome new listeners. And of course welcome back those who are returning. The show's been growing and I'm so happy you guys are spreading the word. So thank you in advance for any more spreading the word that you do. Please tell friends about Financial Grownup if you're enjoying it. I'm also happy that you guys are enjoying the video promos that we do for each episode. A reminder if you want one for you or your business we are having a little competition. Whenever you see the video in social media, share it. Whoever shares it the most between now and July 1st I will make a customized video just for you. So a little experimental competition we're having here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And if you have a great money story, you want to be on the show, we want to hear from you. E-mail us at info at financialgrownup.com, tell us what your money story would be and what your everyday money tip would be and maybe you'll be selected to be featured on the program. We have our first listener episode coming up soon. Now to Ron Lieber. My first exposure to his writing came when I read his bestselling book The Opposite of Spoiled, Raising Kids Who Are Grounded, Generous and Smart About Money. And yes I have used his strategies in my own home. I am also now an avid fan of his New York Times column, Your Money. In it Ron sheds light on issues that touch so many of us and with real solid reporting behind it. So that's something as a journalist I really value and appreciate. He's really good at what he does and as a parent I can't wait to read his upcoming book What to Pay for College. An entirely new guide to the biggest financial decision your family will ever make. But first you get to hear this story about a guy. Here is Ron lever.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Ron Lieber, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Ron Lieber:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're so excited to have you. You are the author of one of my favorite books, The Opposite of Spoiled which has set the standard for so many families including my own. We have our three save/spend/give jars in our house for my 10 year old. So thank you for that. And I know you have a new project.

Ron Lieber:
Yes I'm working on a book right now called What To Pay For College which is all about when if ever it is worth paying more than whatever your flagship state university costs for a private college or an out of state public university or something else entirely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Something we all need to be thinking about. What I want to hear for your money story though is about your experience when you were younger visiting the financial aid consultant with your mom when you were a senior in high school. Tell us what happened.

Ron Lieber:
So there I was. 1988. Chicago, Illinois. Already a scholarship kid at the K to 12 private school I attended back then. We didn't know very much about financial aid, somebody slipped us a phone number for a guy, the guy to see it in the Chicago land area if you did not have enough money for college. Turns out he was the assistant director of financial aid at Northwestern University and he had this side hustle going on where every day at 5:00 p.m. after his colleagues had gone home for the night he would sort of usher you in at the side door of the financial aid office at Northwestern. You'd give him 50 bucks in cash and he would tell you all of the secrets of the financial aid system.

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Ron Lieber:
[crosstalk 00:04:26] God forsaken FAFSA form. Yeah, he knew exactly what he was talking about. I got into college at Amherst early decision, got a fantastic financial aid package and graduated with under $10,000 in student loan debt which wasn't all that much at the time and got it paid off in 10 years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, but we got to go back Ron. So what are some of the secrets that he told you?

Ron Lieber:
It was a reminder that there is always some financial grownup out there in the world who has the information that you seek and quite often if you just had the guts to pick up the phone or show up in their office maybe with a little bit of cash on the barrel that person will tell you the secrets of whatever code you're trying to crack, whatever system you're trying to beat. There is a grownup out there somewhere who can help you. And you know every time I go out and write a column for The Times I'm looking for that one financial grownup who has the answer and they're always out there somewhere.

Ron Lieber:
But the second thing and maybe the most important thing here came from the fact that my mother took me there in the first place. She could have left me at home. She might have felt anxiety about the situation we were in or ashamed that we were going to have to go hat in hand to all these schools you know asking for money. But she felt like I at the age of 17 ought to have a front row seat for that process because it was going to be my education and my debt. And I tried to remember that when I'm tempted to shield my older daughter who's now 12 from whatever financial dilemma that my family is facing. She's old enough to hear a fair bit of this and I want her to understand.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever circled back to your mom and asked her why she took you in and what was going on in her mind at that time?

Ron Lieber:
You know I did a couple of years ago as I started thinking about this guy again. I actually tracked him down on the plains of Colorado where he's gone to retire from financial aid. And he remembered me and we chatted about it and he said the thing that always surprised him was when the parents came without the kid. So you know he gave my mom great credit. And you know my mom to her credit to this day you know doesn't shield me from you know any financial dilemma she's facing.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did she find this guy?

Ron Lieber:
The people at my private high school in Chicago just did not know a ton about financial aid and how it worked. But they said there's this guy. And you know it was literally a slip of paper with the guy's phone number on it, I'm not even sure there was a name and you know I just dialed the suburban Chicago area code and he picks up and he said yeah you know come to this address next Tuesday and bring me my money and we'll talk. And it was like a financial aid underground.

Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners now in 2018, what is the lesson from that? What's the takeaway?

Ron Lieber:
I think you always have to turn over every rock and talk to every person who might have information that can help you. Don't be ashamed of the fact that you don't understand. Every single last one of these financial systems that we encounter in our daily life is complex. Often they are complex by design. Sometimes they're complex by accident right. In the case of the financial aid industry loan systems, you know layers of people over the decades have layered you know different levels of complexity onto this. All in the hope that they can help some or another student who might be disadvantaged by the last layer that was laid on right. What we end up with is you know eight student loan programs and nine different income driven repayment plans and you know two different ways the financial aid is calculated at most colleges and it's really confusing so ask for help, you know express your ignorance and demand information. Right. I mean if you're approaching a system that has a sticker price of over $300,000 now at the most expensive selective colleges. You have a right to demand more information and to get some answers so don't be sheepish about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there specific resources that you would recommend?

Ron Lieber:
Well here's the problem right and the reason I'm working on What to Pay for College is that I don't actually believe that the perfect resource exists. But if you're looking for like nuts and bolts of financial aid I really like Cal Cheney's book Paying for College Without Going Broke. It's about the best book that I've seen about the financial aid system. And if you're thinking about saving for college and how to do that the book that the folks at savingforcollege.com published is quite good if you want to know about the ins and outs of 529 plans and all of the various complexities there and there are a fair number.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right well this is why we need your book. I'm going to hear more about your book in a second but I want to just get to your money tip because we talked before we started recording and you apparently have a concert ticket problem. And I think a lot of people can relate to this, especially coming into the summer, it's time we all like to go see our favorite artist. Tell us Ron.

Ron Lieber:
I'm constantly wrestling with you know how much should I spend for the possibility of you know close up literally experience that's going to make me happy. I do often snipe my way through StubHub. So instead of buying tickets you know weeks or even months ahead of time if it's something where I'm pretty sure there's still going to be a lot of tickets at the end I will wait and I will wait and I will wait until sometimes less than an hour before showtime or before play ball. You know and buy my tickets as I watch the prices fall in ten minute increments, you know every five minutes. You know that was how I saw Phish on New Year's Eve a couple of years ago for not very much at all. Of course there's always some risk involved that all the tickets will disappear. But you can watch and see. You know are there dozens left, hundreds or thousands. Right. Are the tickets disappearing quickly or not. You know you can keep track, make a little spreadsheet for yourself as you watch as the date or the hour approaches. You know but what I often see with concerts is that you know the price will start falling relatively quickly you know within a couple hours of showtime. You know then you just grab the point at which you feel comfortable paying the price. And at that point you can generally download the tickets instantly.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what's been your best score?

Ron Lieber:
I think the best score was probably those Phish tickets on New Year's Eve. Although whenever the Cubs come to town to play the Mets as they are doing in a week or so here in New York City I'll often use this method as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. So you are actually on a break from your full time job at the New York Times because you're working on your new project. Tell us more about that.

Ron Lieber:
Sure. So the book is called What To Pay For College, it will be out sometime in 2020. No pre-orders yet. You know for anybody who's interested in kind of where I'm heading with it you know you can find hints of it in the columns that I've written for The Times about higher education. You know I read a handful each year and my archive is at nytimes.com/lieber and the book questions I'm asking are born of really a half decade of observation where without anyone really noticing the rack rate at the most expensive private schools top $300,000 for four years, flagship state universities now regularly cost $100,000 dollars or more for four years. You've got a $200,000 difference between those two things. That's per child after taxes. Almost nobody can save that much money. This is insane.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. It is insane.

Ron Lieber:
Yeah so the question then becomes what if anything are you actually getting for that $200? And if you go asking those questions at the more expensive colleges they will look at you cross-eyed and if you ask for data to prove that the extra $200,000 is worth it and there are a lot of different ways to potentially define worth, which I'm exploring in my reporting, if you just ask that right, well why do you think it's worth it and show me some numbers right. Here we are in the era of big data where you can get a ton of information about your social plan or about your car or about the house you want to buy, you can just round in data on all that stuff. There is almost no data about what happens to you when you're at college and what happens to you afterwards. And it is my suspicion that the colleges actually like it that way because in the absence of data we make decisions on the basis of snobbery. Private is better than public.

Bobbi Rebell:
So true.

Ron Lieber:
Right, you know ivy covered walls are better than you know concrete 1970s Britos architecture. Right. So I'm going down all these rows and asking all of the impertinent questions and I'm going to have a lot to say about it very soon.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right well I'm hoping you can hook me up with a preview sometime soon because I will need to read that. I've got kids in college so I am very excited about this new project. Where can people find you and learn more about what you're writing in the meantime?

Ron Lieber:
Sure. Www.ronlieber.com, there's a big fat contact button for anybody who has a story to share about how they and their family decided what they should pay for college.

Bobbi Rebell:
And on social media?

Ron Lieber:
@RonLieber all over the place, you know on Twitter, on Instagram and the Facebook community that I run on parenting and money is at Facebook.com, Ron Lieber author.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome, thank you so much Ron. This has been amazing.

Ron Lieber:
It was a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Ron's sincerity is contagious and his book is definitely needed. As he mentioned he wants to hear from all of you about your experiences. So share yours with him, as he said all the info is at his Web site, ronlieber.com. Here's my take on what Ron shared with us. Financial grownup tip number one. As Ron said, there is a grownup there who can help you. Don't be afraid to reach out to older and/or more experienced people for help. Yes, the internet does have a lot of information but not always context. Sometimes just getting the scoop from a person, someone, who's got the dirt on whatever you need to know can be really meaningful, they can cut through a lot of the junk out there. Ask someone, call someone you know, ask someone who they would recommend that you talk to, set a meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
When I was figuring out what I wanted to do after years of being a television anchor I went on what I jokingly called a mentor tour, setting up face to face meetings with anyone I admired who would generously give me their time and asking them who else I should talk to. And trust me mo internet research can take the place of the kind of information download that you can get from sitting face to face with somebody and asking them what they think, what their experience has been and what they think you should do. People are generous so take advantage of that. That will be good.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Financial grownup tip number two. Ron points out the significance of the fact that his mom took him with her to meet the guy. Ron learned that financial aid wasn't going to just appear. He knew that he was a stakeholder in the process and he appreciated the money that much more. We all want to shield our kids from the reality of our financial fragility but if we can get past our egos we do them a service by keeping them in the loop and making them aware of what it really takes to pay for college.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for spending part of your day with us. We make these podcasts relatively short to fit into your busy schedule but also so you can listen to a few in a row when it makes sense like during your commute, if you're watching your kids do an activity or just chilling out and you want to listen to a little bit more. You can listen to three or four at a time, make 45 minutes, listen to four, it could be an hour. Whatever works for you. The goal is to make it fit in with what you're doing and fit your life. If you enjoy the show please help us grow. We need you. Tell a friend, write a review on Apple Podcasts and follow us on social media. I am @BobbiRebell on Twitter, BobbiRebell1 on Instagram and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. Ron's new book can't come soon enough but I'm glad he gave us a sneak peek. And by the way also a great strategy for discount tickets so thanks Ron for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Consultant Julie Finn loved her her consumer products strategy career and says  her employer, Deloitte, did everything possible to accommodate her lifestyle needs as a mom. So no one was more surprised  than she was when she opted for an early exit strategy. 

In Julie’s money story you will learn:

-How Julie left two major jobs but each one was a completely different exit strategy

-Julie’s strategy of applying the same financial criteria to job choices as wel do to other major financial choices like buying a home.

-How Julie’s employer, Deloitte, was family friendly and did what they could to accommodate her needs. 

-Why the decision to leave was not an obvious one

-The advice she received from mentors that led her to her life changing decision

In Julie’s money lesson you will learn:

-As well-intentioned as an employer may be- the job may not be a fit forever

-Age should not hold you back from leaving a job that is no longer the right fit for your goals and needs

-The importance of structure and planning in making a major career shift- and how to get it

In Julie’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The importance of continuing to learn even as you progress through your career

-The value of online courses as well as coaching

-How to save money on skill building education

-Not to try to go it alone- reach and and get the right help

-How to make decisions about priorities when it comes to investing in further career education

Bobbi and Julie also talk about:

-The Working Mothers Mentor Podcast

-Julie’s career coaching for executive women

-How side hustles can help in the decision making process

-How listeners can support working moms, especially who don’t know where to get the help they need

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of a gracious exit from a company

-Why it is important strategically to stay in touch and on good terms with co-workers and supervisors even after you leave the job

-Ways to get discounts on online education courses

Episode Links

Learn more about Julie Finn and The Working Mother’s Mentor:

Theworkingmothersmentor

Follow Julie!

Twitter @mothersmentor

Instagram @theworkingmothersmentor

Facebook The Working Mothers Mentor + join her community!

 

 

IRS info on education deductions

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc513

 

This is a quick way to determine if you can get an education credit

https://www.irs.gov/help/ita/am-i-eligible-to-claim-an-education-credit

 

Udemy https://www.udemy.com/

Coursera https://www.coursera.org/

Teachable www.teachable.com

---

Transcription

Julie Finn:
You know when I took a job, in my head it was my forever job. It was, "I'm going to retire from this company." Because I had the structure, because I had the support, I had a very clear plan and I had very clear strategy in place and that made all the difference.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up. With me, financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends. I remember my first day at my first post college job as what was called a news associate at CNBC and thinking, and this is true, "This is literally the best job on the planet. I can't believe I got the job. There's money associated. It comes every two weeks. I would literally be happy doing this job forever." I wanted it to be my forever job. I hope you guys have all had that feeling, the excitement and optimism of working somewhere you hope you can stay forever.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Julie Finn at Deloit. She climbed her way up in the consumer product strategy field and had finally made it. They were super family friendly there. Whatever she needed, they were going to work with her to make it happen. But then, something changed. We'll get to that in a sec.

Bobbi Rebell:
But just quickly, welcome to our new listeners. So excited the show continues to be discovered and thank you to all of you regulars for sharing it. Please keep telling your friends. Word of mouth is everything. It is the best way for people to find out about our program. It matters a lot. We keep it short, as you guys know, around 15 minutes, but a lot of our listeners like to stack a few together. Think of it like flex time for podcasts.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Julie. She is a business coach and host of the Working Mother's Mentor Podcast, but it was not long ago that she was in what she thought was her forever job, until we now know, it wasn't. The story gets really interesting. Here is Julie Finn.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Julie Finn. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Julie Finn:
Bobbi, thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm excited to learn so much from you because you are a business coach and you host the Working Mother Mentors Podcast, which is very popular. I hear you have some great guests on there.

Julie Finn:
Like you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've actually turned a lot of your life experience into things that you are teaching so many others so that's great. Congratulations on all your success.

Julie Finn:
Thank you. I really appreciate it. It's been quite a journey. It's so fulfilling to be able to do work that you love and to know that you're serving others and empowering and inspiring others so it's been fantastic.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you brought a money story with you that has to do with something that can be very delicate and really has to be handled the right way in order to have the right financial future, financial exit, I should say and that is my not so sophisticated way of saying that you're going to talk about exit strategies and the different ways that you've handled them at different points in your career. Go for it.

Julie Finn:
Yes. That's exactly right and that's funny because when you sit down and think about it, career choices, the choices to take a job or to leave a job, are really some of the most important financial decisions that we make, but we often don't frame them that way. We frame buying a house or making an investment as a financial decision, but oftentimes when we think about career, we don't think about it that way. Particularly for those of us who have made decisions around leaving jobs later in our careers. I have two big leaps. One in my 30s and one in my 40s and those are massive decisions. When I look back over those choices that I've made, it's interesting to see how I've matured and I approached it very differently when I was in my 40s than I did when I was in my 30s.

Bobbi Rebell:
So let's get specific. Tell us what happened.

Julie Finn:
So when I was in my 30s, when I was making the decision to leave a job, it was really based on the fact that I'd just had my first child. I wanted to go part-time. I wasn't able to do that. I felt backed into a corner. It wasn't a positive, happy, leave. It wasn't a leave that was planned in advance. It wasn't strategized. It was more of a leap versus fast forward about ten years. I really worked hard with the company, and it was Deloit and they were super family friendly. They tried very hard to accommodate what I needed at that stage.

Julie Finn:
What I found is that dropping to part-time, which is what my intermediate solution was, wasn't the silver bullet that I envisioned it to be. I think for a lot of working moms, we think, "Wouldn't it be great if we could have a big corporate job with full benefits and work part-time and work from home?" That for me was the holy grail. It's what I had written down on a piece of paper that's what I wanted. That's what Deloit provided for me.

Julie Finn:
The decision to leave was not an obviously one. It was a really difficult one because I had a "good job". I knew that if I was going to make a leap from a job like that, it had to be based on something really compelling pulling me, and it had to be based on a really logical strategy.

Julie Finn:
What I did this time in making that decision, is I got support. I worked with coaches. I took online courses. I went to conferences. I made sure that I surrounded myself with others who made similar decisions. I sought out support from my mentors. It made the decision a positive one and it made the transition a successful one.

Julie Finn:
I found that even though I loved my company and I had a great time, I wasn't passionate about the work and I knew there was other work I wanted to be doing. Historically, I did consumer product strategy which is great training and I got to work with a lot of great clients and great people, but what I'm passionate about is inspiring and supporting women, particularly professional women in living the big life that they are here on earth to live, to overcome the fears and the doubts, to stand in their power.

Julie Finn:
I got frustrated working with so many really smart women who would doubt themselves and who often were making trade offs when children came into the mix and they didn't really know how to handle it. That's part of the reason why I started the Working Mothers Mentor, first as the podcast, to give people inspiring stories behind the scenes of really successful people to show you not only how they juggle everything but how they made career decisions, how they built their business, and to show you the messiness, not just the shiny, glossy stuff that you often see. Then also providing actual support through programs and coaching.

Julie Finn:
So the transition from Deloit has been a really positive one.

Bobbi Rebell:
And part of the takeaway of that is as good willed and as well intentioned as the company may be, that does not mean it is your forever job.

Julie Finn:
That's exactly right and that's part of the reason why it was such a hard decision because I was already over 40. When I took a job, in my head it was my forever job. It was, "I'm going to retire from this company." So making that decision to leap into entrepreneurship in my mid 40s, for a lot of people, it's a very scary time to make any kind of massive career change.

Julie Finn:
For me, part of my tip for people, is make sure if you're making any kind of pivot or massive change that you don't try to do it unsupported and you don't try to do it unguided.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from your story of leaving Deloit for your own entrepreneurial adventure?

Julie Finn:
The real lesson is don't make any big leap of any big decision unsupported and unguided. I think when I look back over the different decisions I've made in my career, early in my career I often felt like I was winging it whereas with this leap, because I had the structure, because I had the support, I had a very clear plan and I had very clear strategy in place and that made all the difference.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your every day money tip because that also goes along this theme but let's get very specific. What is it? What could people do?

Julie Finn:
I think it's very important for us all, all professionals whatever level you are, to continue to invest in yourself in terms of your education and your access to expertise. What I mean by that is in addition to reading books and having mentors, think about online courses, think about investing in a coach, think about going to conferences. I think for a lot of us, particularly when the busyness of family life and trying to keep our career on track, when that comes in development seems to disappear. We might do something in our company. They'll have professional development but I'm talking about you personally, things that are important for you.

Julie Finn:
For me, like I said, part of what made the decision easier is the fact that I invested. I took online courses to improve the skills where I needed. I invested in coaches to give me the confidence where I needed it, to give me the push where I needed it, to give me the guidance where I needed. The important lesson here is don't try to go it alone. Make sure that you continue to invest in yourself and that way when you are making these big decisions you're completely educated around them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now are the ways that people who maybe tight on money can better afford these things because it can get expensive and where is the balance there? Because you're struggling to pay your bills, you want to build up things like and emergency fund so you maybe can take the leap to be an entrepreneur. How do you know how much is the right amount to spend in time and money.

Julie Finn:
That's a really great question. In terms of time, I think for a lot of us, we would say we don't have enough time. So it is about making the decision to prioritize. I think when you take a step back and look, you can certainly find maybe it's two hours a week, maybe it's for a season, maybe it's a weekend conference. It's about the prioritization, making the time.

Julie Finn:
In terms of money, we should all start to work on having a development part of our budget. Again, if you take a look at your budget and if you look at things that maybe you're spending money on, getting your nails done, or getting your hair done, or something that feels maybe a little bit less necessarily. If you took some of those resources and invested in attending a conference or working with a coach or if you can't afford a coach one on one, investing in a group coaching program. That's often a way to have access to a very seasoned, experienced coach but without having to pay the fee that you would pay for one on one attention.

Julie Finn:
I think the other thing is there are a lot of great platforms where you can access online platforms that are less expensive like Udemy, Teachable. So you can find courses for as little as $69. Some of the more sophisticated courses obviously can cost you a thousand, two thousand dollars, but you can get started with any budget.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much. So tell us more about what's going on with you, because I know you offer some of this.

Julie Finn:
Yeah. We're having a great time over at the Working Mothers Mentors. In addition to the podcast, we have a group coaching program that's launching soon. That's really designed to support women who are considering leaving their corporate jobs in order to start a business either as what a lot of people affectionately call a side hustle or to fully replace their full time income. We also offer group coaching and one on one coaching programs. The idea is really to support working moms who often feel like they're juggling so much and they don't really know where to go for support. That's really our mission.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you a few years ago? I needed you so much. I'm so happy that you're here now though doing all this for so many people that will really benefit from it.

Julie Finn:
Thank you so much. That's exactly why I do it. I needed me ten years ago and I needed me again three years ago and I couldn't find me and so I decided to become me. So thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before I let you go, tell us all the social channels and where people can find you.

Julie Finn:
Our website is theworkingmothersmentor.com and that's a great hub to find out more about our coaching programs, to find out more about the podcast. The podcast also called the Working Mother's Mentor. You can certainly access on any platform where you currently listen to podcasts like your podcast. On social, you can find you on Facebook and Instagram @theworkingmothersmentor. Twitter @mothersmentor and me personally, Julie Finn, on LinkedIn.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're the best, Julie.

Julie Finn:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So companies have a long way to go towards keeping more women in the workplace, but Julie's story at least shows real progress at some. No hard feelings, it just didn't work out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip #1: If and when you leave a company, take a we from Julie and be gracious. As great as Julie's story is, sometimes we don't have the best feelings when we leave a job, and it is really tempting to let them have it, but the truth is, those former coworkers and bosses could well become the best assets you have in your future business ventures.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip #2: Julie mentioned the importance of investing in continuing education throughout your career. You know I'm a big fan of this. Many online courses are actually free and those that are not often go on sale. Sometimes your employer will pay for your classes. Make sure that you know if there are any requirements like getting a certain grade. If your employer does not pay, you can also often deduct education from your taxes if it meets certain criteria.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm going to leave some links in the show notes bobbirebell.com/podcast/JuliFinn. I was also leave links to some popular online course websites like Udemy, which often has sales as I mentioned, classes can be under $10 there, and Coursera which has partnerships with universities including my alma mater, Penn.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to Julie for candidly sharing her amicable breakup. It is one thing to storm out of a job you hate. It's another to just well not be that into it anymore and leave in search of finding your true love in terms of your career.

Bobbi Rebell:
So thank you to Julie for helping us realize sometimes life isn't so clear cut and getting us one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

 Legendary entrepreneur Shelley Zalis, Founder and CEO of The Female Quotient, The Girls Lounge, FQ Talent and FQ Impact, knew she needed to be fearless when she started her first company Online Testing Exchange. So when her relatives offered to fund the venture, she turned down the money, choosing instead to go to outside investors. 

 

In Shelley’s money story you will learn:

-How she had an idea to disrupt the online research field

-The pivotal decision she had to make when it came to raising the million dollars she needed to get her company started

-The concerns she had about her ability to take risks with family financing

-How her strong track record and achievements in the industry allowed her relatively easy access to financing her dream company

-Examples of specific risks she was able to take because she was not emotionally connected to her funding

In Shelley’s money lesson you will learn:

-The danger of being greedy and not wanting to share equity by taking outside financing

-The importance of making bold decisions and not playing it too safe when starting and building a business

In Shelley’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The best ways to manage giving

-Shelley’s strategy to make sure the businesses she supports get the financing they need

-How Shelley makes sure her donations are always used as she intended

Bobbi and Shelley also talk about:

-Her latest venture, The Female Quotient

-The growing components of The Female Quotient including The Girls Lounge

-How The Female Quotient evolved from the Intelligence Quotient, and then the Emotional Quotient

-Men are welcome in the Girls Lounge

-The Girls Lounge is launching permanently on university campuses in over 122 countries

-FQ Talent and FQ Impact will launch soon

In My Take you will learn:

-The way to apply Shelley’s strategy to businesses you want to support

-Strategies to gain the experience and industry respect to be able to get others to buy in to your dreams when you go looking for funding

 

Episode links

Learn more about The Female Quotient https://www.thefemalequotient.com/

Follow Shelley and The Female Quotient!

Twitter: @shelleyzalis  @wearetfq

Instagram @shelleyzalis @wearetfq

Facebook: Shelley Zalis  The Female Quotient

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Transcription

Shelley Zalis:
I thought well if I take my husband's and my parent's money, I would be too afraid to take chances. We always say, if you're building something new, you gotta be bold and brave and willing to take risks and fail before you succeed, but failure wouldn't have been an option and I did not want to play it safe. I needed to go way out there and take some significant risk.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of 'How To Be a Financial Grown up'. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grownups. It sounds like a dream come true to be able to avoid outside financing when you're starting a business. Keep it in the family, right? But let's be honest, how much risk would you really take with your parents or your spouse's money? And as our guest Shelley Zalis makes very clear, you need that risk to succeed. Not all money is created equal when it comes to funding startups. Welcome everyone. The show continues to grow, so thanks to all of you who have been telling your friends. If you're new, we work on flextime here. The podcast runs about 15 minutes or so. So pretty much anyone can fit it into their schedule, but if you have more time, go ahead and binge.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about Shelley Zalis. I first met her or should I say I first witnessed Shelley taking total command of a room of mesmerized women about a year ago. I was fortunate to be included in a dinner that she hosted and have been in awe ever since. She is a force. She is a disruptor in the online research business with OTX, Online Testing Exchange, that was her first company and now is taking aim at equality with The Female Quotient. Here is Shelley Zalis.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Shelley Zalis, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Shelley Zalis:
Oh, thank you. I hope I never grow up though, because once you're grown up, you feel you never have the opportunity to keep learning and I learn every day. So I hope that I never grow up. I guess I'm like Peter Pan-

Bobbi Rebell:
Just financially.

Shelley Zalis:
Okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you can find all your youthful adventures, right?

Shelley Zalis:
I'll take it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Shelley Zalis:
Perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm a huge fan of your company. You're CEO of The Female Quotient, which of course encompasses the Girls' Lounge. Tell us just a little bit about what it is before we get to your money story.

Shelley Zalis:
Thank you. First of all, I am your greatest fan 'cause you make every conversation, whether it's complicated or easy, fun, interactive, engaging-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well thank you.

Shelley Zalis:
And with solutions for change. So thank you for doing what you do as well. The Female Quotient, the name came ... first came the Intelligence Quotient, IQ, then the Emotional Quotient EQ, now the Female Quotient, FQ. When you put women in any equation, the equation gets better so that we can start creating solutions around diversity. We say that diversity is good for business and yet we're going backwards. So The Female Quotient is in the business of equality and we have four key pillars, the Girls' Lounge. There's a boys club, why not have a girls' lounge, a place where the minority acts and feels like the majority. Men are welcome, but they come into our world with our rules and they all feel comfortable. And we will be launching a permanent Girls' Lounge on university campuses in over 122 countries. And then we'll also be launching the FQ Talent, a talent business for corporate women to bring more visibility to women doing remarkable things. And then we also have a practice of equality, helping companies become a quality fit because we can help women all we want, but if we don't rewrite the rules than women will continue to fall out in middle management or what we call the messy middle. And then the fourth is the FQ Impact, which is our giving back with generosity really to women in developing markets.

Bobbi Rebell:
All this costs money and a lot of that money came from Online Testing Exchange, which you built earlier in your career. You have a money ... Sort of share with us about a strategic decision that you made, a psychological strategic decision you made about how to finance your first business venture. Tell us your money story, Shelley.

Shelley Zalis:
I needed a million dollars because I met a 21 year old. I was doing website testing, usability testing and I thought, "What if we migrate research from offline to online?" And I said to him, "Trevor, why don't you build this for me?" I said, "But I have no money." And I said, "But the second someone gives you money, I'll give you a million dollars. So believe in me, invest in me and I will give it back in a very significant way." And so I needed a million dollars and I had two options, go to a big company and get them to buy in, or my husband and my father both agree to give me half a million dollars to realize my dream and they believed in me.

Shelley Zalis:
I thought about that. I thought well that's the easy way just to go to my family, but it was gonna be hard. My husband was just starting out in medicine. We did not have that kind of money. We would have been putting everything in our savings account into this and of course my father wanted to help out. And I thought well, if I take my husband's and my parent's money, I would be too afraid to take chances. We always say if you're building something new, you gotta be bold and brave and willing to take risks and fail before you succeed. But failure wouldn't have been an option if I had my family's option and I did not want to play it safe. I needed to go way out there and take some significant risk and so I did not take their money and I went to Nielsen and they were the first to fund me. And as soon as they said yes, I handed a 21 year old a million dollar check.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you already had a relationship with Nielsen?

Shelley Zalis:
Yep. I went to Nielsen. I said, "I have a big idea." And they said, "Great. What do you need?" I said, "I need a million dollars." And that is the check that I gave to this young man that just said yes to me, believed in me, not knowing what the results would become. But what I had was passion and purpose and an unstoppable mindset. And I went in saying, "I really want to try something new. I don't know if it's gonna work, but if it does, it's certainly gonna be a game changer." And I sold that same company three times. So they took a good risk and they also got a great reward as a result of saying yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you look back at those early days, do you feel that there are risks that you took? Is there a specific example you can think of, of a risk that you took that you may have been more hesitant to take had you been financed by your relatives, by your husband and your ... well really, you and your husband and your father?

Shelley Zalis:
Absolutely. The first risk I took when I got to Nielsen was I said to Nielsen, "Not only do we need to pay this young man a million dollars, but I'm going to go break into the movie business." I was very well known in the consumer packaged good business, but I decided to go after the movie business because they had two and a half minute trailers versus just 30 second spots. They tested a lot of content and they needed data within 48 hours and security was very important for them, because you could close the movie before it opens if people panned the trailer. And so I thought if I could build a system around the hardest thing possible than doing 30 second spots for products that are womb to tomb would be very simple. So I said to Nielsen, "I'm gonna go to the studios and everything they're testing offline ..." And there was a monopoly. One guy owned the research business for the movie ... for the movie industry. I said, "Everything they test offline, I want to parallel test for free online so I could calibrate the scores and build the model and build the technology that would work." And that was very risky and that was very expensive and I wouldn't have been able to take those chances if I couldn't go way out there and build the [echo system 00:08:06] very quickly by parallel testing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Versus if you were investing ... If you had your father's money and your husband's money, you would have been watching every penny and maybe been a lot more reluctant to do something like that.

Shelley Zalis:
I would have played it safe and if you play it safe, there's no way you'll be really the first to own something. And I always said to myself, "I need to be the first, the second and the third." The first has to come up with this big idea, but they usually lose. So if I took my father and husband's money, I probably would have lost. So the first always comes up with a big idea. You have to make the investment, but you don't reap the benefit because the second one comes in, they copy everything you did, but they don't really know what's under the hood, and the third is the sweeper. You've now built an [echo system 00:08:53], everyone is buying in. They get the money and they win.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for our listeners, what is the takeaway here? What is the lesson for them, how they can apply it to their own lives?

Shelley Zalis:
Well I think number one, don't be greedy. Like had I've taken my husband's money and my father's money, I would have ... the equity would have stayed in the family and that was the positive. But the negative was I would have been risk averse and failure would not have been an option for me, and there is no companies that succeed building something that doesn't exist if you're not willing to fail before you succeed. Number two, when you are pioneering something that's never been done before, make sure you set yourself up in your own mind that you will have freedom to color out of the lines, that you're not gonna play it safe. You've gotta be bold, you've gotta be brave, you've gotta be willing to take chances, and you do need a partner that will support that mindset.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Let's talk about your everyday money tip now though, because it sort of flips where you're seated. Because now instead of being the one receiving the money, now you're in a position to support businesses that you believe in.

Shelley Zalis:
I once had someone come to me, they needed $100,000.00 to create a project that I thought was very worthwhile. And so of course I gave them $10,000.00 and I said, "Here's $10,000.00 towards the hundred thousand." As it turns out, they never raised the additional $90,000.00 that they needed and I never got my money back, and that really bothered me. That's hard worked money for me that I really gave to this organization to make something happen. So now I designate all of my giving and so if someone needs 100,000 and I'm planning to give 10, I will say to them, "You go get your 90,000 and I will give you the last 10 so that I know the project is a go." Or I will designate my giving. Of I'm gonna give 10,000 to something, I will buy three dogs sniffing dogs or I will buy three rehabilitation machines in Tel HaShomer Hospital or for my children's bar in Bar Mitzvahs. I said to them, "10% of what you get for your Bar Mitzvah, we're gonna give to an organization." And we built a gym for handicapped children and my kids were able to go and see that that actually happened. Because when you can see the results of your giving, you want to give more.

Shelley Zalis:
My mother always used to tell me that giving is like wearing a new pair of shoes. When you put them on the first time, it pinches but the more you wear them, the more comfortable you get. Like I just was at the MAKERS Conference recently and I met a young girl. She's 12 years old from India living in Colorado and she found a technology, a way to remove lead from water and she needed $25,000.00 for her dream and I thought, if they're asking everyone in the audience and someone says, "I'll give you 500, I'll give you a thousand." She might've ended up with 3,000 out of 25 and one, it would have been discouraging for her and two, she would not have been able to realize her dreams. If I'm gonna give, I want to know that it's gonna make a difference and help you go where you need to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. All right, Shelley. Let's talk quickly about the Girls' Lounge and The Female Quotient and what is happening in the rest of 2018.

Shelley Zalis:
Oh, thank you. So we are doing Girls' Lounge popups. It is a space, as I said before, where the minority acts and feels like the majority. A space for women to connect, collaborate, activate, change together, but more importantly to support each other and have unplugged conversations. So we have popups at pretty much every major industry. We will be rolling out on college campuses starting in September. We already opened two, but we'll be opening 200 universities at a time. We have access to 3,800 universities in 122 countries. Our FQ talent business will be launched in about three months. We are building it right now with wire frames.

Bobbi Rebell:
What will that be?

Shelley Zalis:
It will be a talent agency for senior women, placing women in keynotes. I'm just so sick of hearing that there's no women for keynote speeches-

Bobbi Rebell:
I know. I've heard that too, Shelley. It's amazing.

Shelley Zalis:
It's ridiculous. We have all the women, the women are all here. We have over 17,000 corporate women in our community that are all bad ass in their own regard with their own stories to tell. So no excuses. Sorry, not sorry. There's plenty of women. So if you don't find them, then that's just a poor excuse for not moving forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
Shelley, where can people find out more about all of this and be in touch with you and your team?

Shelley Zalis:
Thank you. You can follow us on social @shelleyzalis or @wearetfq and you can find us ... our website is The Female Quotient.

Bobbi Rebell:
Shelley, this has been amazing. Thank you so much.

Shelley Zalis:
Bobbi, you're amazing. Thank you for sharing our journey.

Bobbi Rebell:
All I can say is one day I hope I have the means to be able to make someone's dreams come true the way Shelley does. It's pretty incredible, but take her advice to heart. Financial grownup tip number one, when giving to a startup, maybe your friend is starting a business, has a page on Kickstarter. Don't be afraid to take a step back and see how they raised funds from other people first. If you wanna give something to show your support early on, well maybe make a small donation, but hold back and know what happens to your money if the project is not fully funded. Financial grownup tip number two, Shelley talks about being fearless and taking risks. But take that in the context of the fact that she already had a ton of experience in the industry. She knew what she was doing. Companies like Nielsen don't just hand you a million dollars. You need to know your stuff and have the credibility and the experience.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks so much for joining us. If you have not already, please subscribe and while you're there, make sure to go to settings and select auto downloads. You don't have to worry about missing any episodes and I want to hear your thoughts. DM on Instagram at bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell, and of course, sign up for our newsletter more about the podcast at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Shelley Zalis, truly fearless and so inspiring. Thank you Shelley for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Geometry of Wealth author Brian Portnoy invested time and money in an academic career, but made a career change that got a lot of backlash. But looking back that judgement only makes him more sure he made the right move. 

In Brian’s money story you will learn:

-How and why he made a major career change after investing years of time and money

-His candid thoughts about the field he left, and why it did not live up to his admittedly unrealistic expectations

-The financial and social reality of academic life

-How he was able to detach from external expectations of him by colleagues, family and friends

-The role long-term relationships and staying connected played in his ability to shift his career

-Why he had not been more informed before choosing his initial career

-How his life, and his happiness changed once he moved to the new and higher paying job

In Brian’s money lesson you will learn:

-If a situation doesn’t feel right, it’s better to make the change

-Trust your gut if it doesn’t feel right

-Have the courage of your convictions to move forward

In Brian’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How giving money can create contentment

-Research shows that people who demonstrate generosity tend to be happier

-What Brian calls constructively selfish- when you tip more to someone that needs the money more than you. 

In My Take you will learn:

-My candid thoughts about not fully understanding the financial limitations of the career I chose

-Understanding not just the potential financial pay of an industry but also the culture and how that aligns with your values

Brian and Bobbi also talk about:

-Brian’s latest book “The Geometry of Wealth"

-What he means when he talks about a life of funded contentment

-How his book cuts through jargon

-The importance of defining what makes us happy before we start diving into investing

Episode Links

Learn ore about Brian at shapingwealth.com

Pick up a copy of Brian’s book: The Geometry of Wealth

Follow Brian!

Twitter @brianportnoy

LinkedIn Brian Portnoy

 

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Transcription

Brian Portnoy:
Most other people don't care. Your family cares, a few friends care, but for the most part, recognize that even if they say something negative or they put you down, they're not thinking about you before or after that conversation. They're just going on in their own life, and so you really don't owe them really any of your emotional energy.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. That was Geometry of Wealth author Brian Portnoy talking about a controversial career change he made, leaving an academic path that he had invested in both time and money, for a job in finance, and the judgment he faced by colleagues. He gets into some very candid comments that may surprise you to hear them actually said out loud. I'm curious to hear your reaction here, so please DM me after you listen and let me know what you think. On Instagram I'm @BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter @BobbiRebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
With that, let's get going. Here is Brian Portnoy. Hey Brian Portnoy, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Brian Portnoy:
Hi, nice to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your most recent book, The Geometry of Wealth.

Brian Portnoy:
Thank you. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And this follows by the way, your other book, Investor's Paradox. So, we're so happy to have you here, and you brought with you some great information, but before we talk more about your book and all that that offers our listeners, as you say, to live a life of funded contentment, and that has a lot to do with a big career decision that you made that was in part financially motivated, but there were other things going on as well. Tell us your story.

Brian Portnoy:
For the first roughly ten years of my career I was in academia. I earned a doctorate at the University of Chicago in political science, and I was having some success in terms of my writing, in terms of job offers from prestigious universities for tenure track positions, and on paper, everything was going really well. But I'll say that when I was honest with myself and with my fiancee at the time, I simply wasn't happy. It was a tough career.

Brian Portnoy:
Frankly from a monetary perspective, it was not lucrative. Being a graduate student, you're basically broke and then you go from being a graduate student to a professor when you're not broke per se, but you're really not making a lot of money. And the academic lifestyle involved moving around a lot, finding it hard to set roots in one place because you're looking for the right job at the right university.

Brian Portnoy:
The harder part was the expectations that others had of me that, hey, you're a smart guy and you've been working on and thinking about this for a long period of time, so to be able to go to those people, family, friends, my professors, my dissertation committee and say, "You know what, I want something different. I need something better for me," was not easy. I ended up just sort of putting a bunch of feelers out there.

Brian Portnoy:
One of them was to an old friend that I grew up with, who was working at a company called Morningstar, that some of your listeners might be familiar with. He was telling me about some of the investment research that they were doing, and even though my PhD was in political science, I was researching markets and economics as well and I found this job pretty intriguing, and I applied and I got it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you know the kind of salaries that ... first of all, the years of investment, both in lost income and in paying tuition and then making very little money, and did you know what the end game was in terms of earning potential when you made those decisions at 21?

Brian Portnoy:
I really didn't, and I guess it's a little embarrassing to say that I didn't. But I was following my passion at the time, and so I figured, "Hey, I'm friendly with and I see the lifestyle of some of these professors, and it looks great to me." So I didn't ask any hard questions about the monetary element of it. I was on a day-to-day basis, pretty broke, and that didn't help my mood. I just hadn't given much thought to the career element. Not just the money, but the lifestyle, which was sort of moving around a lot, and frankly, the people. I'm not going to be critical of those who go into academia, many of my good friends are now senior professors all over the world. But I really wasn't enjoying sort of the social network that I found myself in.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you mean by that?

Brian Portnoy:
I mean when I was hanging out with folks in the business world, and broadly speaking, I was having a good time, enjoying socializing. When I was hanging out with those in academia, I just didn't like the people very much. Despite the level of brilliance that you would find with folks, it was relatively narrow-minded. I just wasn't entirely comfortable.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what were the changes? You get the job at Morningstar. What were the changes in your overall life, but specifically financially, in terms of your potential and the path that you were now on? How did that change?

Brian Portnoy:
It changed significantly. Well, first of all, at that point I was married to somebody who had a very good six-figure salary. My starting salary at Morningstar I think was $41,000. This was in the year 2000. I was not pleased with that, but that's what the job offered and I wanted the job. But it was certainly about double or more, actually triple what I had been living on in graduate school. So, from that point of view, it was a step up in lifestyle. Plus I was married to somebody who had a very good job.

Brian Portnoy:
The more important thing is that I got into sort of a normal work routine in mainstream society. The lifestyle I had in academia, you set your own schedule, which sounds great. You work on whatever you want, which sounds great. But it was unstructured and frankly untethered from most everything going on in the world. It's remarkable how ignorant others can be. Something I've really taken to heart is that most other people don't care.

Brian Portnoy:
Your family cares, a few friends care, but for the most part, recognize that even if they say something negative or they put you down, they're not thinking about you before or after that conversation. They're just going on in their own life, and so you really don't owe them really any of your emotional energy.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners from that story?

Brian Portnoy:
If you're in a situation where it just doesn't feel right, even if you're getting good reviews, even if you're making decent money, you owe it to yourself to step back and say, "Do I owe myself more than this?" And then have the courage of your convictions to push forward.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk a little bit about your everyday money tip, because it ties into the philosophy of your book, The Geometry of Wealth in that you have something you're going to suggest to people that at the moment will not make them wealthier, but it will help them lead a richer life.

Brian Portnoy:
I think we all think in different ways about the relationship between money and happiness, and whether money buys happiness. And I'll say somewhat controversially that money in some cases can buy happiness. As part of that, deeper forms of contentment in our lives are in part driven by our deliberate decisions to express gratitude to others, and to be generous. There is now a lot of research in psychology and neuroscience that shows that people who express gratitude, and people who demonstrate generosity tend to be happier.

Brian Portnoy:
I call it being constructively selfish, because when you can tip a little bit more at the restaurant where the waiter or waitress was really helpful, if you can every time you stay at a hotel, don't leave $1 or $2, leave $5 for somebody who probably needs the money more than you do, and even in a non-monetary sense, you have an Uber ride where the driver was really fantastic, make it a point to write them a review. Or if there's somebody at work or in your personal life who's really done you a solid, send them a text or call them and say, "Hey, thanks for doing that," without the expectation of reciprocity.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. All right, let's talk a little bit quickly about your book The Geometry of Wealth. As I mentioned, it's your second book, and it's a lot about the emotional side of investing and how to grow and stay wealthy, and get past the jargon. I mean, you talk about the fact that a lot of people in the investing industry make it more complicated than it needs to be.

Brian Portnoy:
That's right. The industry is filled with jargon and sometimes that is used deliberately to confuse people so that they can buy products or services that might not be appropriate for them. I think the biggest mistake all of us, including me, off and on for decades now, the biggest mistake that we make when it comes to our money is that we equate money with investing, and we immediately dive into the weeds, into the markets and stocks and all that kind of stuff. Which can be interesting, but very distracting.

Brian Portnoy:
The Geometry of Wealth makes the point that what we need to do is start at the beginning. And starting at the beginning is to define what really makes us happy in life. And there's a number of different nuances to that, but we should be looking to underwrite a contented life. We shouldn't be looking to just get rich, meaning just have more money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people find out more about you and The Geometry of Wealth: How to Shape a Life of Money and Meaning?

Brian Portnoy:
My personal website is shapingwealth.com. There you can learn more about my background. There's a link to both The Geometry of Wealth and The Investor's Paradox. That's the best place to start, and also my Twitter handle is @brianportnoy, and I'm quite active on Twitter writing about day-to-day financial decision-making.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Brian.

Brian Portnoy:
You're welcome.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. I kind of have to take a deep breath after that, but I really admire Brian's fortitude in making a career change even after he had put so much into his academic career. Financial Grownup tip number one, when choosing a career path, find out the general cost to get there. Money and time. And the general payback. What can you expect? Sounds simple but most of us don't do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't do it, guys. I was a communications major at the University of Pennsylvania. That's not a cheap education. And while I did have what was called a concentration in the business school there, I never really mapped out and thought through what journalism paid. And you know what guys? Business news pays better than general news, in general. But journalism, not the most lucrative career.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, Brian talked about more than money in why he wanted to leave. Industries have cultures, and sometimes those cultures are part of what makes a career attractive or not. So take that into consideration. You spend a lot of time in your career and with colleagues, so it has to be a match.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for listening. We hope you are finding that investing the time is delivering value to you, and if it is, tell a friend, tell your relatives, tell your colleagues. Also, tell us. DM us on the social channels and learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Show notes can be found at bobbirebell.com/podcast/brianportnoy. In every show, it's always the same pattern, just switch out brianportnoy for the guest name, and you can find the show notes and links to everything that we talk about. And thanks to Brian for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Modern Loss author Rebecca Soffer not only had to come to terms with losing her parents at a young age, she also had to reconcile complicated feelings about using the money she inherited after their deaths, to fund her dream home for her own growing family. 

In Rebecca’s money story you will learn:

-How she lost her mother when she was 30, and her father just a few years later

-Her conflicted feelings about the money she inherited

-How Rebecca approached managing her inheritance

-The decision to use it towards a home for her growing family

In Rebecca’s money lesson you will learn:

-Accept that receiving money from parents, or any relative after death is complicated and emotional

-It can be scary to make huge financial decisions after a loss

In Rebecca’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to spend less money on snacks, especially with kids

Bobbi and Rebecca also talk about

-Rebecca’s book, co-written with Gabrielle Birkner, Modern Loss

-The collection from essays from different authors offering unique but universally relatable stories

-Mindy Kaling’s reaction to the book, and how she is supporting Modern Loss

-Stephen Colbert’s role in Rebecca’s life and how his experiences influenced his decision to support the book

-The role of digital memories  on social media like Facebook, in our lives

In My Take you will learn:

-Have a plan for your social media. 

-Go to settings and set up a legacy contact

-My tips on how to avoid spending money on snacks when you are on the go

Episode Links:

Learn more about Rebecca’s platform at Modernloss.com

Order the book Modern Loss!

Follow Rebecca and Modern Loss

Instagram @modernloss

Twitter @modernloss

Facebook: Modern Loss

How to set up a legacy contact on Facebook:

Go to General Settings, click Manage account, and add a friend’s name

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Transcription

Rebecca Soffer:
I really connected this to, would my parents want me to buy this home? Would my parents want this for me? Would they think this is a waste? Is this how they'd want to take care of me? Would they want me to use it for something else? It really got into my head.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grown Up. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grown up friends. No amount of money can replace a loved one, but money does sometimes come after a loss, inheritance. Spending that money can be really complicated. Should it matter what they would want you to do? Is there a period of time that you should wait, and what if it allows you to do things you never could have done had they not passed away? In other words, it is complicated. Welcome, everyone. If you are new, glad you are joining us. You picked a really good episode. We try to keep them short, around 15 minutes, even though we hear many listeners bash them together. It's about flexibility and doing what works for you. When you subscribe, make sure to go into settings, hit auto download, automate your podcasts like you automate your bill paying, so you never miss one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to our guest, Modern Loss author, Rebecca Soffer. She lost both of her parents at a relatively young age while she was a young adult working at the Stephen Colbert Show. It led her down an unexpected path. Here is Rebecca Soffer. Hey, Rebecca Soffer. You're a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.

Rebecca Soffer:
Thank you so much, and thank you for calling me a grown up. That feels really nice.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are very much a grown up, and we're going to talk about why and how you became a grown up before you really wanted to, which is kind of all of our stories, I think. You're also the author of one of the most talked about books of the summer. It's Modern Loss, candid conversations about grief, [inaudible 00:02:10]. I should say you're a co-author along with Gabrielle Birkner. This is a book that's being talked about by some very influential people including Mindy Kaling. I'm looking right at the front cover. It says, "I am not sure how a book about grief could also be witty and entertaining, but Modern Loss accomplishes just that." Your old boss, because you are like me, a TV veteran or survivor, however we want to put it.

Rebecca Soffer:
Refugee.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sticking with the theme here, trying to have a sense of humor. Stephen Colbert says, "Talking about loss can feel scary. These surprisingly candid and funny stories aren't about death. They're about life." I love that.

Rebecca Soffer:
I love it too.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're going to talk more about the book after your money story, but how did this come about, because you're young? You're still young.

Rebecca Soffer:
Thank you, new best friend. I would think it's safe to say that I did not grow up daydreaming about eventually co-founding a site and publication and writing a book about loss and grief in the modern age. That didn't really enter into my consciousness as a career option. I had other plans, but as it goes the universe had other plans for me. When I was 30 years old I was working in daily TV, as you mentioned, the Colbert Report, and my mother was killed in a car accident.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so sorry.

Rebecca Soffer:
Thank you. It was terrible. It was the worst. I mean, I could talk about that for eons with you, but we don't have that much time. She was my best friend. She was my person. I had just seen her just an hour beforehand. Not only was it awful in a profound, profound loss, but I was 30. That's like the new 21, right? I really felt like a kid in many respects. It was also sudden, so I had no time to prepare for it. Then beyond that, three years later my dad died. He had a heart attack when he was traveling abroad.

Bobbi Rebell:
So sorry.

Rebecca Soffer:
Yeah, thanks. It was again, awful. It was terrible. It was isolating, and wrenching, and insanity-driving. By 34 I had no parents who were above ground. I did inherit some money because my parents did have some legal tender in their accounts, so by extension, some of that went to me. I had to figure out what to do with the portion that I could spend, when to spend it, what to spend it on, how much to spend it. The one really huge thing that I did, I went in with my husband on a down payment on a house in the Berkshires in rural Massachusetts. That sounds all nice and fancy, but the fact of the matter we lived in a one bedroom rent subsidized apartment in Manhattan, and then eventually kept living there with our one kid and our Labradoodle. It was nice and cramped.

Rebecca Soffer:
I never thought that we'd actually buy a place outside of the city in which we lived, but after my dad's death that all changed. I used part of this money that I was left, which I would have given all of my limbs to not have. I would have much rather had my parents with me to purchase this home with my husband, which was our foundation, which we were starting to create together.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you think if you had had that money through some other means with your parents still alive you would have been able to make such a grown up decision?

Rebecca Soffer:
Absolutely, because for a couple years beforehand my husband had been saying, "Let's look at properties because interest rates are really low. I think this might be a good time to invest in something," keeping in mind that we were being very frugal with our rental in New York City. We had low overhead with regards to rent and living expenses there. I just thought we were playing around. It was fun looking at houses. It sounded like a very grown up thing to do, to purchase a home, especially when you're in New York, and you feel like you're always a kid no matter what. Only adults buy houses. That's like most people in this country go through that, but it still felt very foreign to me.

Rebecca Soffer:
After my dad died, and I put that home on the market, everything changed. I all of a sudden became very aware in a way that I had become aware after my mom died, of the fleeting nature of life, that it can go at any minutes, and that this is your one life. I was living it now. This was no dress rehearsal. This was an opportunity to start something and to create a foundation where we could build memories with our kids, with our friends, which otherwise would not have not been build in, says, their maternal grandparents' home.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's interesting is that the inheritance that allowed you to buy a house, it was the money, of course, but it was also the idea that this is your life, and you do have to grow up. You do have to be financially grown up, and that was in a way part of what happened after they passed away.

Rebecca Soffer:
Yeah. I don't think it really had entered into my mind that I would have purchased something. Also, everything is really expensive in New York. That was not in the realm of possibility in my mind. Very quickly, the need to have a sense of home became very, very, very integral to my life.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners? How can they make this their own?

Rebecca Soffer:
When you lose your parents, and this money is from your parents, wow. It was so complicated. I really connected this to, would my parents want me to buy this home? Would my parents want this for me? Would they think this is a waste? Is this how they'd want to take care of me? Would they want me to use it for something else? It really got into my head. I also was really scared to take any huge financial action shortly after a profound loss. I didn't want it to result from strong emotions because people always say, "Don't make any big moves within the first year of a deep loss." We bought the house three or four months after my dad's death. A lot of people would say, "Wow, that seems rash," but my mom had already died. I was no stranger to this experience, so you could really argue that I was about three years into it already. I needed a foundation.

Rebecca Soffer:
I learned that even though you're making a purchase that is going to be the right thing for you, it doesn't mean that it's not a complicated, emotional experience. It is very, very hard to spend money that is inherited, very, very heard, and especially for younger people because it's not like when I was 30. You just called me a financial grown up, that's amazing. Can you please put that on my tombstone because that's not a term that's really been used in connection with me a lot. I didn't feel like a financial anything, and I really didn't feel like a grown up.

Bobbi Rebell:
You have an every day money tip that is something that many people do, but I think it's important to point out on a practical level because it's something we all think we should do. I personally, have never been great at executing it. I want you to share it with us, and I want you to tell us most importantly, how you actually execute.

Rebecca Soffer:
Yeah. Now I have a one-year-old and a four-year-old, both little boys, and they are hungry, like they are hungry. They are constantly hungry, and I constantly find myself, as soon as we leave the house, even though we have just eaten, my four-year-old will 10 seconds later say, "I'm hungry." I'm like, "How is it humanly possible for you to have more space in your stomach right now?," but he does. I constantly find myself, or had found myself, buying into purchasing the snacks from the museum we're at, or whichever entertainment based facility.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which are very expensive.

Rebecca Soffer:
Which are expensive. They're like a billion times more expensive than they should be, or the bottle of water. I spend some time a couple nights a week, it takes me 10 minutes, it's really not a big deal, putting together snacks, putting them in little Ziploc bags, separating them. I stockpile them. I have them ready every day. I take the new slew of snacks, and I bring them with me. I put them in my older son's little backpack. Wherever we are, whenever the inevitable, I'm hungry pops up, I'm like, "Great. Go into your backpack." What's really great about that is not only are there are a billion different things to choose from, but there's no arguments about, I want this. No, you can't have that. A, because it's like $20, and D because it's made of crap. He knows that anything in that bag is fair game.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk a little bit about Modern Loss. There's one part that really stood out to me that I hadn't really thought that much about, and that has to do with our digital legacy. It's a collection of essays from different authors, and then you and your co-author Gabby introduce them. Was there a conscious decision to include these digital stories, or did that just happen? What is your take on them?

Rebecca Soffer:
Yeah. It was a very conscious decision to have a dedicated chapter to the ways that grief and loss can throw a loss into our digital lives because it's very much a part of everything we do right now. It wasn't as much so 15 years ago, maybe even 10 years ago. My mom died in 2006, and she did not have a Facebook presence.

Bobbi Rebell:
Doesn't that make you sad? I wish my mom had a real Facebook page.

Rebecca Soffer:
Yes, it does make me sad. I always say, "If a person isn't a searchable, did they really exist?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Before I let you go, people are dying to know, how did you get Mindy Kaling involved with the book? Then also, Stephen Colbert, I know that you worked there. Can you tell us about their involvement and connection?

Rebecca Soffer:
With regards to Stephen, yes, he's my former boss. I think he's an amazing human being and very ... I think the general public, anyone who knows a lot about him knows that he suffered profound loss when he was very young. He lost very close relatives very quickly, and he gets it. He's one of those people who gets it. When I was starting to co-author this book, I reached out to him and told him all about it. He offered to write a blurb, immediately offered to support it and knew that there was a need for it. With Mindy Kaling, it was through a mutual friend, actually. She had lost her mom. I had read it in her own book and in a lot of news articles that she had lost her mom around the time, I think, that she got her TV deal for the Mindy Project. She really must understand what it's like to go through loss while you're revving up your career.I thought, who doesn't love Mindy Kaling? Everything she does it so great, and her tone is so approachable. I approached our mutual friend and asked if she would send along my request and a few chapters of the book. She agreed to support it.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's unique about this book is it's a book that you're read once, put down, and then keep coming back to. I think that's a very special thing. Where can people find out more about you, and the book, and everything else that is important to you right now?

Rebecca Soffer:
I run ModernLoss.com. It's an online publication that has hundreds, and hundreds, and hundreds of personal essays that are narrowly focused around different aspects of grief and loss. We're @ModernLoss on Twitter, on Instagram. We have a very active Facebook page. What I really love is we have a closed group, which has become this incredible source of support.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Rebecca. This has been wonderful.

Rebecca Soffer:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Rebecca mentions with her usual humor that she's really sad her mom was never on Facebook, but these days social media does live on and can be a gift. Financial Grown Up tip number one, keep your social media secure, but make sure if something does happen to you, loved ones can have access to whatever you want them to. Talk to relatives, especially older ones about making plans for what they want done with their digital assets. A lot of grandparents, by the way, are on Facebook. It can be as simple as finding the right settings on a certain platform. It may also be something to include in your estate planning and in your will.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up tip number two. Rebecca's money tip really hit home with me as a parent, but it can also apply to all of us in our every day lives. It's not just kids that get the munchies and get stuck buying pricey snacks. Pick a go-to food. In my case, it is often pistachios and those power bars. Keep it somewhere that is always with you for a quick pick-me-up. Totally obvious, but often not done. Maybe this is a reminder, if you already knew that. For me, it keeps me away from M&M's, sometimes. DM me your take on this and what your danger food is, if you don't have those go-to snacks with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks for sharing this time with us. The podcast is free, but in order to grow we need your support. Reviews are amazing. Also, follow us on the social channels @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. The shows notes for this episode are at BobbiRebell.com/podcast/rebeccasoffer along with more info on the podcast at bobbirebell.com. Thanks to Rebecca Soffer for helping us get one step closer to being financial grown ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Susie Orman Schall was financially content and lacked the motivation to rev up her writing career. Then a ’tough love’ conversation with a friend motivated her to get back to her A game. The mindset change resulted in phenomenal reviews and success for her latest novel, Subway Girls. 

In Susie’s money story you will learn:

-How Susie was not motivated by money in becoming a novelist

-The one thing a friend said that changed her perspective, and leveled up her ambition

-How Susie was able to get an agent for her third novel

-How Susie got a two-book deal for The Subway Girls

In Susie’s money lesson you will learn:

-How Susie defines success as a writer

-The change in self worth after quitting her corporate job to be a stay at home mom with three children

-Why earning money makes her feel valued

In Susie’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Resources to get books at a lower cost, including Bookbub

Bobbi and Susie also talk about

-Susie’s latest book “The Subway Girls”

-The economic message that is a theme of “The Subway Girls”

-How Susie researched the book

-The history of the Miss Subways contest

-How Susie got the idea as a foundation for her book

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of financial rewards in self worth

-Why having a second earner can be an important safety net even if one partner is the primary breadwinner

Episode Links

SusieSchnall.com

Get your copy of her latest book “The Subway Girls” 

Follow Susie!

On Twitter @susieschnall

On Instagram @Susieormanschnall

On Facebook Susie Orman Schnall

Check out Susie’s Balance Project interview Series!

Featured on the Balance project:

Reese Witherspoon, Sara Blakely and Sarah Michelle Gellar

BookBub

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Transcription

Susie Orman Sch:
One of the things I said was, "You know, I don't really need to make a living from this book, so it shouldn't be something that stresses me out and overwhelms me because my husband, luckily, is earning the money that our family requires." She said, "Well, what if your husband weren't earning that money? What if you had to make money? How would you approach this entire process differently?" And that was a light bulb moment for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, grownup friends. So that was my college friend and now novelists, Susie Orman Schnall. Her new book, The Subway Girls, was named one of five inspiring career girl stories to enjoy on your commute by Buzzfeed. InStyle called Subway Girls one of 11 bucks to bury your nose in the summer, and PopSugar called it one of the summer's hottest new books. Not bad, Susie.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. In our interview, Susie gets very candid about the fact that she wasn't really trying that hard with her career as a novelist. She wasn't the breadwinner, so why stress? Well, you will hear why, especially if you dream of turning in your resignation to your boring office job the minute you have kids or other financial resources, and you don't have to go in and work for the money. You need to go in with your eyes open. Here is Susie Orman Schnall.

Bobbi Rebell:
Susie Orman Schnall, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Susie Orman Sch:
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations on your latest book, huge bestseller already. The Subway Girls getting rave reviews. Wait, I have to read some of these. You were named one of the most anticipated novels of summer by, this is a very long list. I'm just going to read some of them. Refinery 29, PureWow, Working Mother, PopSugar, Parade, and we could go on. I'm so proud of you. I have to tell everyone, we know each other a long time. We were actually college classmates and for one semester we were even roommates. So we've come a long way together and I'm really excited for you.

Susie Orman Sch:
Thank you. Likewise. It's wonderful that we can do this now as adults professionally, so it's a great honor to be on your show.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we also reconnected when we both decided to get into the book writing business a few years ago. You started when you had a lot on your plate already at home. You had three growing boys, a husband to take care of, a very busy life in the suburbs, and you decided to write books, and you were successful. You had a couple of very good books come out, but your motive wasn't necessarily to earn money. It was really about being fulfilled.

Bobbi Rebell:
And then one day, one of your friends said something to you that really changed your mindset and resulted in this book, which all your books are good, but this book really is a huge commercial success and has taken your career to a new level. Tell us about what that friend said and what happened.

Susie Orman Sch:
What happened with my first is I wasn't able to secure a literary agent, and so I ended up self publishing it. And then it got picked up by a small publisher, and that was really a wonderful experience for me. I really loved being with that publishing house. So for my second novel, which is called The Balance Project, I didn't even try to get an agent and go the traditional publishing route. I stayed with my publisher because I was comfortable there, they treated me really well. It was just a kind and gentle way to publish a book.

Susie Orman Sch:
And then I was talking to a friend who also happens to be a life coach, and she said something that changed my entire framework. One of the things I said was, "You know, I don't really need to make a living from this book, so it shouldn't be something that stresses me out and overwhelms me because my husband, luckily, is earning the money that our family requires." She said, "Well, what if your husband weren't earning that money? What if you had to make money? How would you approach this entire process differently?" And that was a light bulb moment for me. It kind of gave me more of a sense of urgency.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how did you then implement changes? What happened that was different?

Susie Orman Sch:
So I ended up writing the book, but instead of just opting to go with the publisher who I had been with who I still absolutely love, I went and queried the book and tried to get an agent, and I was successful. That was really one of the most wonderful professional experiences that I'd had because I knew that it was going to set me up to take me to a different level with this book. And then she put it in on submission, and I got an offer from St. Martin's Press for a two book deal.

Susie Orman Sch:
Right away, I felt like a completely different person. It gave me a validation as an author that I didn't have before. So I'm just so grateful that she made me think, well, what if? You know, stop staying in your comfort zone. Go outside of that and try something hard and something uncomfortable. Be comfortable being uncomfortable because that's how you get where you want to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it also brought you more financial rewards.

Susie Orman Sch:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners?

Susie Orman Sch:
I think of my success in the fact that I wrote these books and they were published, and they get great response from readers. To me, that is success. That makes me feel fulfilled and I feel like I've already won. The sales of the book are kind of the icing on the cake and that is because I don't have to earn a living as an author. But I don't really want to act like I don't have to earn a living as an author because, as we all know, everything can change.

Susie Orman Sch:
I was fortunate enough, and I'll use that word "fortunate" and then I'll qualify it in a minute, that when I started having children, I was able to quit my full time job. I was working for an internet company and earning a nice living that made me feel like I had value. I stopped working so that I could be a full time stay at home mom. Unfortunately, that didn't make me feel valuable, and what I realized is that earning a paycheck is something that's important to me.

Susie Orman Sch:
I don't judge other people's choices. Stay at home mom, full time working mom, whatever people want to do is great, but I do know that for myself, earning money makes me feel valued, and feeling valued is really important. It's very hard as a full time state home mother. You don't get a lot of recognition and validation for your work, and I do call it work. And so I started freelancing very soon after I had my first son, and that led into writing the novel. But the lesson for me is that if it makes me feel a certain way, then I absolutely need to do whatever it is to make that happen for myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your everyday money tip because this is something that I think a lot of our listeners who love to read books will really find a lot of value in.

Susie Orman Sch:
Yeah, so I love to read books, and I find myself buying more books than I can read. Luckily now, authors give me their books and I go to the library. I'm constantly inundated by books, but one wonderful resource is called BookBub and that's B-O-O-K-B-U-B as in book, U, book. And it's a website and if you go on there and you sign up with your email address and you put down what genre books you like, then every day, you get an email with daily deals of books that are ninety nine cents or $1.99 or even free, and it's a great way to load up your Kindle with books and not spend a lot of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. I want to talk about Subway Girls a little bit more and about the economic message of this book because people looked at this campaign and it almost looked like a beauty pageant, but in fact, it was actually a way at the time, as I see it, an opportunity for many of these women to have economic opportunity that they might not have otherwise had.

Susie Orman Sch:
Exactly. So my novel, The Subway Girls, is historical fiction and it's based on fascinating Miss Subways Contest, which was essentially a beauty contest that took place in the New York City subway system from 1941 to 1976. So my novel is dual storyline and the 1949 story features two young females who are competing for the Miss Subways title, and then in 2018, you have a female advertising executive who's pitching the MTA, comes across the Miss Subways campaign in her research. The two story lines intersect, and that's where the fun begins.

Susie Orman Sch:
But the initial, the motivation for both of the women is to find professional success. They both are incredibly ambitious, my main character in 1949, along with my main character in 2018, and they both have different motivations and reasons why professional success is so important to them. And for both of them, it ends up that the Miss Subways Contest, even though my 2018 character doesn't actually compete for Miss Subways, but it's this contest that allows them to fulfill their ambitions.

Bobbi Rebell:
It represents economic dreams because that is a way out, especially for the character in the 1940s. That is a way to basically not "just be a housewife," which is what she was fighting against. At the time, there were very limited opportunities for women. She would have basically just worked for her father. She did have someone that wanted to marry her and she put off getting married because she wanted to do other things.

Susie Orman Sch:
Yes, Charlotte is, she was unique for her time and she didn't want to have to go only with the constraints, what the expectations were for her by society, by her family, by herself, by her professors. They all wanted something for her and she just completely butted up against that box and wanted to get out of it. She found that, for various reasons, and you'll have to read the book to find out, that the Miss Subways Contest was her ticket out.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did a lot of research for this book. What happened in terms of their career paths for these women, the ones that you were able to interview?

Susie Orman Sch:
It was amazing. A lot of them, this became a stepping stone to a career either as an entertainer, or a model, or a singer. The very first Miss Subway was Mona Freeman. In 1941, she became a big Hollywood star. I actually coordinated a reunion a couple of days ago for Miss Subways in New York City. We had about 15 Miss Subways. The earliest one was Miss Subways of 1946, and the latest one was the very last Miss Subways in 1976.

Susie Orman Sch:
I just got to hear so many stories from them about how this launched their careers. These were every day New York city girls next door, and to have this opportunity to be seen as special, and to get recognition, and then have that launch into a career, was just something that changed most of their lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you first discover this and decide to write about it?

Susie Orman Sch:
I was actually driving in my car and listening to NPR and a story came on about the Miss Subways Contest and I was floored. I found it fascinating. I had worked in advertising, so that was relatable. And just this small slice of New York City history was beyond. And so I went home and I started doing research on the contest. Everything about it was fascinating to me, especially because it was rooted in this whole concept of female ambition, and women seeking their professional and personal dreams, and how this contest aided and abetted them with that. So the more research I did and I ended up interviewing former Miss Subways and hearing about their experiences, I realized that this would be a great foundation for a novel, and took it from there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you took it very well. I loved this book. I read it in, literally, one day. I couldn't put it down, and it's truly summer beach reading at its best and more. So congratulations on all your success. Where can people learn more about you, about The Subway Girls, and how to follow you?

Susie Orman Sch:
So the best place is my website, which is susieschnall.com, and that's S-U-S-I-E-S-C-H-N-A-L-L .com. And that has all of my social media links, and links for my books, and also my Balance Project interview series, which you're featured on. That is where I interview women about work life balance, but not from the perspective that we should all be trying to achieve this perfect level of work life balance, but more revealing it for what it is, as something that's hard to be perfect and absolutely no reason why we should try.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you've had some major stars on there by the way. Do some name dropping.

Susie Orman Sch:
Okay. Reese Witherspoon has done the interview. Sara Blakely, who founded Spanx. I have the founders of The Skim. I have women from all walks of life, all different professions, and it's a really ... There are 175 interviews posted up there now, and it's a really great way to see how different women are dealing with this challenge of work life balance. I know that there's a lot of pushback about, why do we ask women about work life balance, but semantics aside, a lot of women are interested how other women are dealing with it. So this interview series gives a way for women to see that everybody's struggling with it. Everybody's making sacrifices. We're not alone in that regard.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, thank you so much, Susie. This was great.

Susie Orman Sch:
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Susie was pretty candid, and I appreciate that she was honest about some things. We aren't always comfortable talking about in public and saying out loud, that she just wasn't all that into being a stay at home mom, that she didn't feel valued. She didn't feel validated until she started making money again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one, admit that for most of us, many of us at least, money, our paycheck, does make us feel appreciated. There's a great scene in Mad Men where the character of Peggy goes into her boss, Don Draper, and she complains that he never says thank you, and his answer of course is, "Well, that's what the money is for." If that happened today, I would hope that instead of Peggy wanting a thank you, Peggy would ask for a raise. In other words, it is okay for your work to be about the money. Bonus points for fulfillment, of course.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Susie talks about not being stressed out because she wasn't the breadwinner. Well, I'm glad she did get the wake up call from her friend. Twice, I have unexpectedly and temporarily, thankfully, been the primary breadwinner for my family. One time, my ex husband's job just ended after a merger, not his fault in any way. Nothing we could have seen ahead of time. Another time, my family was hit by the recession and while my husband landed very well and pretty quickly, we were both glad that I had some money coming in along with benefits like health insurance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Make the choice that is right for your family, but it's never a bad idea to have two incomes, even if one is much lower than the other. You'll be glad to have it if something happens and a lot of the time, at least once in your life, something's going to happen. Family, multiple income streams. If you are not already, please subscribe to the podcast and while you are there, manually change the settings to automatically download episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
We put out these episodes three times a week. They're about 15 minutes, so you can easily fit one, two, or more episodes into your listening time and make it work for you. Be in touch. DM me your thoughts on the podcast @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. To learn more about the show and get the show notes with links to everything that we talk about, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. And thank you to Susie Orman Schnall for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Influencer author Brittany Hennessy shares her strategies for getting large raises even when companies push back. Her book, Influencer: Building Your Personal Brand In the Age of Social Media, focuses on strategies for content creators to monetize influence. 

In Brittany’s story you will learn:

-Why she did not negotiate her first job offer

-The strategy she used to get a raise from $35,000 to $55,000 after just 6 months

-How she got yet another $20,000 jump in pay not long after

-Why the third time she tried to get a raise, she got a different result, and how she moved forward from there

In Brittany’s lesson you will learn: 

-How to understand your worth and be prepared to negotiate

-When to walk away

-How to look at job interviews as a two way street, and integrate that into your strategy

In Brittany’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The importance of staying in touch and being reachable if your work demands that. 

-The consequences of not being available when an opportunity comes up

-How to put the pressure to disconnect in perspective relative to your reality

Bobbi And Brittany also talk about

-Her new book Influencer

-The four parts of Brittany’s book: Building your audience, packaging your brand, monetizing your influence and planning your future.

-The Don’t be that Girl sections of the book

-The mega influencers that Brittany interviewed for the book

-How being an influence is a lot of work, sometimes a lot more than a traditional job, with none of the financial security

-Many of the most successful influencers went years without any financial compensation

-How brands can get more transparent value working with influencers, where they see the specific impact, compared to traditional celebrities on traditional media platforms

-Brittany’s #1 piece of advice for aspiring influencers

In My Take you will learn:

-Disconnecting from technology is a good thing- but if your business is tied to being reachable- make sure you are still reachable. 

-Use apps to limit and control the amount of time wasted on social media,so you can be more productive and focus on income generating activities

 

Episode Links:

Learn more about Brittany Hennessy on her website: https://brittanyhennessy.com/

Read Brittany’s Book #Influencer!

 

Follow Brittany!

Instagram @mrsbrittanyhennessy

 

Here are some roundup articles with apps to turn off social media:

https://www.reviewed.com/smartphones/features/10-apps-that-block-social-media-so-you-can-stay-focused-and-be-more-productive

 

https://www.teensafe.com/blog/best-app-limits-social-media-time-iphones/

 

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apps-to-reduce-screen-time-iphone-android/

 

Reward Style

Shop Style Collective

Learn how Brittany Hennessy negotiated a 57% raise on this Financial Grownup podcast episode. http://www.bobbirebell.com/podcast/britannyhennessy

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Transcription

Brittany Hennes:
I had $50,000 for someone for eight hours of work and one Instagram post, and she just did not respond. And when she did, she was heartbroken, because $50,000 is a lot of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey grownup friends. So, I think we would all like to make $50,000 for a day's work. It almost makes that famous quote from supermodel, Linda Evangelista, the one where she says she doesn't get out of bed for less than $10,000 seem a little quaint.

Bobbi Rebell:
Apparently, according to our guest, Brittany Hennessy, at least one influencer didn't pick up the phone and missed out on $50,000. That is a very expensive missed call.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. Thanks for spending some time with us here at Financial Grownup. We keep it to about 15 minutes, but feel free to binge if you have a bit more time, and it would mean the world to us if you would hit that subscribe button. Go into settings and then set up automatic downloads. Automation is everything just like with investing, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's get to Brittany Hennessy. She is the senior director of influencer partnerships at Hearst, and she was a pioneer in the influencer field, first as a nightlife blogger, and then she worked as an influencer for brands including Bacardi, Pop Chips and The Gap, as well as having amazing assignments like ooh going enough to Germany for [inaudible 00:01:46] and hanging out with Rihanna and live tweeting about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Her book, Influencer, is really a first. Even if you aren't in the content creator influencer world, you should definitely check it out. We're going to talk a little bit about that too. Here as Brittany Hennessy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Brittany Hennessy. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Brittany Hennes:
Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations are in order. Your book, which has only been out a week, Influencer, Building Your Personal Brand in the Age of Social Media, already an Amazon bestseller, so congratulations.

Brittany Hennes:
Thank you very much.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I know you've been very busy. Tell us just a little bit about you, your background and what you've been up to. The last week or two you've been touring around with your book.

Brittany Hennes:
Yeah, I'm currently the senior director of influencer partnerships at Hearst, and here I book all of the branded content talent across all of our digital platforms and spent a lot of time working with influencers.

Brittany Hennes:
My background, for the last five years, has been in influencer marketing and just realizing that a lot of influencers were not getting the education and resources that they needed to be successful in this industry, and that's mostly because it's a new industry. There are not a lot of people who could give that sort of advice, and I love giving advice.

Bobbi Rebell:
You brought a great money story to share, and it has to do with getting paid more, which you're so good at it. So tell us.

Brittany Hennes:
So my money story ... My first job that I had after a long break of freelancing, and I had just taken the job at the amount, it was $35,000, and I was really happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us what the job was. What were you doing?

Brittany Hennes:
Oh it was to be ... So, I was the social media manager of a fitness chain.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Brittany Hennes:
And happy to have a steady paycheck, have health insurance. And so I took the number, even though it was much lower than what I wanted, and after the first six months I realized that I can't live on this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well wait, had you tried to negotiate it at the beginning or you just took it because you just wanted to be working?

Brittany Hennes:
You know what? I knew better to negotiate, and I was scared. And so, I think that happens to a lot of people. We're afraid that if we negotiate, a company will take back the offer. And so that is a lesson I learned the hard way and quickly course corrected when I asked for my first raise.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, you did not negotiate it all when they made you your very first offer for the job?

Brittany Hennes:
I did not, and that's something I think everyone should do, and I've done every time since.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So, let's go on. But then things get better?

Brittany Hennes:
Things get better. So, I put together a big proposal, and I asked for promotion, and I asked for a $20,000 raise, and they gave it to me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, wait, you asked ... Let's just slow that down. You asked for $20,000 on a $35,000 base. How did you present that case?

Brittany Hennes:
You know, I think it really was explaining what I had been doing at the company and the returns they had been seeing, because they hadn't really been a digital company at all, and I really put them on the map with social media, digital advertising, and I had the numbers to show. Like before I started working here, this is how many signups you were regenerating. This is how much revenue you are making. And in the six months I've been here, here are the new numbers. So, they more than make up for the increase I'm asking for, and unless you want to go back to not making as much money, you should give me what I'm asking for, and they took the bait.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's great. Then, you actually did it again though.

Brittany Hennes:
I did it again. Once I was grooving at that new level, I also stepped up the amount of work I was doing. I really stepped into like a brand director role, and we had an apparel line that we made. We had a radio station that we were playing in all the locations. So, really doing things that increased the brand value of the company, and that's something that translated into reviews online, into sales, into word of mouth. And again, when you can show that you're adding value, I think you should not be afraid to ask for a hefty bump. And I asked for another $20,000, and I got that as well.

Brittany Hennes:
And so I think, you know, if you're working hard and you're adding value, and you can put that on paper and quantify it real numbers, you should not be afraid to ask for more money because your job will give it to you, and if they don't, they don't appreciate you, and you probably should look for a new job anyway.

Bobbi Rebell:
What if they'd come back and said, "We agree you're worth this, but we don't have that in our budget."

Brittany Hennes:
So, that's actually what happened the third time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, you went back for more. How far apart? It was six months for the first time, and how much between each subsequent time?

Brittany Hennes:
Six months for the first time, and then I think a year and a half for the second time because I was there for almost three years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. And then you came back the third time.

Brittany Hennes:
And my last negotiation came at the end.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. And?

Brittany Hennes:
And they didn't have it. They said, "You know, you're great, and we don't have it." And I think you can either be able to walk away, which I was able to walk away, and I had also gotten another job offer that was for significantly more than they were paying me, so I was willing to walk away. Or, you know, if you can't, then you can look into trade offs. Like, if you can't give me X amount, can I have more vacation? Can I have a work from home day? Can I, you know, have shorter days? I think, if you really love your job, and the job is not just about the money. It's also about the work-life balance that you have.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners when you look at a big picture in sort of a broader sense of how it can apply to our listeners' lives?

Brittany Hennes:
I think the lesson there is really when you're going into a job situation, to understand your worth and be prepared to negotiate for what you want, and also be prepared to walk away.

Brittany Hennes:
I think lots of times we're very much, "I hope they like me." And we forget that interviewing for a job is a two-way street. Of course, you're going to be able to work at this great company and all the perks that come with it, but this company is benefiting greatly because they're going to get to have you as an employee.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I want to talk about your everyday money tip because it's fascinating and brilliant, because it goes against the grain.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're in a period where a lot of people are saying, "We look at our phones too often. We need to completely detach, turn it off, put it away for a full day or whatever it is and be in the moment." But that could be very expensive and could be a money mistake. So, what's your everyday money tip?

Brittany Hennes:
My everyday money tip is don't play hard to get and definitely be present.

Brittany Hennes:
I work with a lot of influencers who, I email them, I have contracts, I have offers. Sometimes it's four or five, six figures, and they don't respond because they just didn't get around to it, and they're always heartbroken when they try and connect with me later, and the opportunity has passed them.

Brittany Hennes:
So, I think, you know, it's definitely important to disconnect and recharge, but you still need some sort of out of office-on even if it's just letting people know that you only check email twice a day, and the next time you'll check is that this time because you never know what's sitting in your inbox or in your voicemail, and you have to make sure you're ready.

Bobbi Rebell:
Without naming names, what's the worst case that this ever happened?

Brittany Hennes:
I won't name names because the poor girl's probably still traumatized by it, but I had $50,000 for someone for eight hours of work and one Instagram post, and she just did not respond. And when she did, she was heartbroken because $50,000 is a lot of money for anybody.

Brittany Hennes:
Even Warren Buffet, if you want to give him $50,000, would probably take it. Why not? It's a nice amount of money, and she could have made that doing relatively little work, you know, compared to what a lot of people have to do for $50,000, and she just wasn't there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Heartbreaking. All right, let's talk about Influencer because, as I said, I love this book, and I don't know that there's any other book out here yet that lays it all out so clearly and in such a specific way.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love your expert tips. You have throughout the book this Don't Be That Girl, which is a lot of no-BS advice for people as to what you can't do. Tell us more about the book and what went into it.

Brittany Hennes:
The book is broken out into four parts, building your audience, packaging your brand, monetizing your influence and planning your future, and it's really just giving you tips and practical advice. Like I even give email templates on if someone asks you this, you should write back this, because I think part of what makes people successful is having a formula and having some sort of standard, and influencer marketing is still so young that there really hasn't been anything that's been created that's a textbook, and that's really what I tried to write.

Brittany Hennes:
And I think my favorite part ... I really liked the icons that I interviewed eight mega influencers who were at the top of their game, but I do really like, Don't Be That Girl just because I think it's really ... I think it's really funny, and people always like horror stories, and so I had to change some details so that people aren't easily identified, but the meat of the story and how ridiculous some of the [inaudible 00:10:49], they are a hundred percent true.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. You talk about the request that some of them put forward as if they were celebrities of a caliber that they just are not at this point, but because they live in this bubble, they believed that they are.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I think another good thing that I love about the book is that you make it very clear that they treat this like a job, and in most cases it's not even a solo job. It is a job with multiple people working on these brands. So, it may look very carefree, these beautiful photos, but in fact, they're very planned. The equipment is specific. The lighting, the filters. The other people working on it have very targeted jobs. This is work even though you say it's eight hours, for example, for $50,000 that that person missed out on. To be at the caliber where you ae being offered $50,000 for eight hours of work and an Instagram post, that person probably was working for many years very hard.

Brittany Hennes:
That's 100 percent true, and I think that's the part people miss when they, I think, are a little disgusted, might be the proper word, about how much some of these top-tier influencers are making, and a lot of these women weren't making that much money until recently, and some of them have been YouTubers, bloggers, Instagram stars for 10 years, and for the first five they made $0.

Brittany Hennes:
People just think they snap one photo and slap it on Instagram. Have you ever taken one photo of yourself? It's not perfect. You take at least five. And so, they're taking hundreds, then doing select, then editing, and that's even before they were mood boarding the clothing and the locations and getting permits, and they're ... You know, if you think of any major brand that does a photo shoot, they're doing the exact same thing just sometimes on a smaller scale.

Bobbi Rebell:
Brands can tell on a much more granular level exactly what return they're getting. So, if you were a traditional celebrity and you're in a shampoo ad on TV, they never know how many bottles of shampoo they sold. But it's much easier, somewhat, to track the impact of an influencer campaign.

Brittany Hennes:
Absolutely. Between ... Even if you just look at basic media, if you're looking at engagements, the cost per click, the cost per impression, we have those data points now because Instagram is providing them, and YouTube provides them, and then you have huge affiliate networks like Reward Style and you know, Shop Style Collective where influencers can actually see how much product they're moving because they make commission off of it.

Brittany Hennes:
And so I think Reward Style has crazy numbers that like in a very short period, they did a billion dollars worth of sales, and companies like Nordstrom, 80 percent of their mobile traffic comes from influencers.

Brittany Hennes:
And so, brands can really see the difference that influencers are making, and it's not just enough to make great content, you also have to be able to move product.

Brittany Hennes:
And the girls who are commanding six figures for a campaign, they can do both really well.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, final question on this. Number one piece of advice for people that want to be an influencer that earns money.

Brittany Hennes:
Number one piece of advice is make sure you are in it for the right reasons. Everything is great, but everything, once it is your job, is now a job, and you may not want to get up some days, but you still have to go and shoot content. Definitely pick something that is your passion. And if you could do it and no one would pay you, you would do it anyway, because it will be a while. It can be a short while or a long while until you see real revenue from it. So, you definitely want to make sure you don't burn out before your time comes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great Advice. Tell us where we can follow you because you are an influencer in your own right.

Brittany Hennes:
I'm on Instagram. That's my primary channel at MrsBrittanyHennessy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much, Brittany.

Brittany Hennes:
Thank you so much. This was so much fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so Brittany did not hold back. Here's my take on it though. Financial grownup tip number one. There is a big trend now that we should take breaks from our technology, and that is a really good thing, but if you have a job where you need to be reachable, be reachable.

Bobbi Rebell:
One option is to use, for example, the do not disturb feature settings on your phone. So, within there, you can set it up so that the calls from one group, let's say VIPs are allowed. You can also usually set it up so that repeated calls get through. That way if someone's calling you over and over again to hand you money, like $50,000, you may notice repeated calls and eventually they will get through to you. You can also, obviously, have some kind of message on your voicemail telling people to call someone like an assistant that can reach you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. While we are talking about phone settings, one way to not make money is to always be on social media, unless of course that is literally your work. Then be on social media.

Bobbi Rebell:
There are all kinds of apps and settings that can put controls in, so you won't be distracted by all the apps on your phone, but you can leave the right things on and use the setting.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm going to list some roundup articles with a bunch of these, but a couple to check out are Moments, Off Time, and Freedom.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for sharing your time with us DM me and tell me what your financial grownup tips are. I am at BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, BobbiRebell on Twitter, and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook, and you can get the show notes, for example, with the links of those articles for this episode BobbiRebell.com/podcast/BrittanyHennessy, and all of the show notes follow that same pattern where it's BobbiRebell.com/podcast, and then forward slash and the guest's name. And we have lots of great information there, including links to their books, where you can find them on social media and all that good stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you for Influencer author, Brittany Hennessy, for helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Entrepreneur and extreme athlete Kyle Maynard has lived a life of high achievement, so it came a shock, when a planned business venture stumbled, and he had to let 5 employees go and accept the limitations of his vision. 

In Kyle’s money story you will learn:

-How Kyle took a risk on a new venture that did not go as well as projected

-The tough decisions that he had to make to protect his assets

-Kyle's ability to come to terms with his missteps, and decision to cut his losses

-How he chose to pivot and re-think his venture

-The importance of protecting his own financial security while expanding his business

-What Kyle learned from a mentor about "the double bottom line”

-How he integrates his “no excuses” philosophy into his business ventures even when they are not living up to his expectations

In Kyle’s money lesson you will learn

-How to know when to cut your losses

-How to avoid making decisions in fear of what others will think

-Specific ways to evaluate whether or not to put more money into an investment or business ventures

In Kyle's every day money tip you will learn:

-How to prioritize the money you spend on fitness and health

-Whether supplements are worth the money

-How to get in shape when you have a low or no budget

-Why high quality food is better than supplements and shakes etc

-His take on organic foods

-If you need a $10,000 treadmill

-What Kyle was eating  (or not eating!) the day we taped the interview

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of HOW you fail- because at some point we all do

-Why many entrepreneurs, like Kyle, and Perez Hilton do not invest all their own money in their businesses, in order to protect their assets and spread the risk.

-My tip on how to save money and eat healthier when buying fresh fruit

Episode Links

Kyle’s webpage: http://kyle-maynard.com/

Follow Kyle!

Instagram @kylemaynard

Facebook Kyle Maynard

Get a signed copy of Kyle’s book “No Excuses” !

Listen to the Perez Hilton episode where he talks about not risking your own capital that I reference in this episode! 

When should you pay up for organic fruit?

What not to buy organic- Insider

The Truth about organic produce and pesticides- The Washington Post

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Transcription

Kyle Maynard:
Just because you've put in a certain amount of money does not justify you continuing to go and put in more in the future for something that's not working so well, and so I did go in and let five of the people go on short notice.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebel, author of "How to be a financial grownup". But you know what? Being a grown-up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. So losing a job is hard, but being the one to make those decisions and cause those job losses as a business owner is brutal. As you'll hear from the very raw sharing of an experience that is all too common for entrepreneurs, but rarely talked about so candidly, as it is by my guest, Kyle Maynard.

Bobbi Rebell:
I met him a little more than a year ago at a conference in San Francisco, and immediately needed to know more about this incredible man. I can't begin to tell you how much it means to me that I finally was able to get him on the podcast for everyone.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for those of you who don't know about Kyle Maynard. Kyle is an entrepreneur. He's a speaker. He's an author of the bestseller, "No excuses". Kyle is also an award-winning extreme athlete. He was the first man to bear crawl the highest mountain in Africa, Mount Kilimanjaro. Now, why was he bear crawling? Because Kyle was born with a rare condition known as congenital amputation. It left him with arms that end at the elbows, and legs that end at his knees. So naturally in addition to climbing massive mountains, Kyle owns a gym, is a champion wrestler, teaches crossfit, and is a world record setting weightlifter.

Bobbi Rebell:
As you guys know, I try to keep the podcast short, so we're just going to cut off the bio there, but trust me, look him up. His accomplishments are endless. I'm so excited about this interview guys. Here is Kyle Maynard.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kyle Maynard. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kyle Maynard:
Hey, thank you so much Bobbi. Appreciate you having me. I don't know about this whole grownup business, but I'll go with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, you're definitely a grownup. I've followed your adventures. So we met, we met over a year ago at a conference out in San Francisco where I got to interview you for the conference and then you were off. You've been traveling. I think you went to something like 14 countries since then, and now you've landed long enough to do this interview in San Diego where you are living a nomadic and minimalist lifestyle.

Kyle Maynard:
Yeah, that's pretty accurate. You may have some ex-girlfriends that would disagree on the grownup part, but you know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh no. We're just doing money. We're just going to talk about money and you're a businessman. Look, you have many accomplishments, and you were a bestselling author at a very young age. You were able to make some money early on, enough to be able to invest in a home. You invested in mutual funds that was up and down. You also founded a very successful gym and that venture has done well.

Bobbi Rebell:
But now for your money story, we're going to talk about what's been going on more recently. And first of all I just want to thank you in advance, because this was not the original story that you were going to share, but you have agreed to share it I believe here for the first time, so candidly. And you had to make some very tough decisions after something, a new venture hadn't gone as well as expected. And I think it's something a lot of people will relate to and get a lot out of this story. So go for it. Kyle.

Kyle Maynard:
So I guess to start with my current career has been, as you know, traveling around giving speeches, corporate events, and you know a variety of other types of events. Like you in sort of the motivations for starting this podcast, very similar motivations. I've been wanting to go and try to find a way to go and build a business and monetize things outside of just the constant travel, and feel like there is a place to be able to go and reach people in the digital world, you know.

Kyle Maynard:
I also do have access to some amazing human beings, and really wanted to be able to harness that and be able to help other people realize more of their potential in their lives and whatever that would mean for them.

Kyle Maynard:
And I made some really aggressive hires very quickly, so I'd hired five near full time people to kind of help build out the vision for what I had set out to do with this new program. And things got pretty dramatically behind schedule and I ultimately realized the amount that was going to go and take to be able to go and get the ship righted if it worked at all, potentially might eat away at the vast majority of the savings that I'd made over the last decade or more.

Kyle Maynard:
And I had to make a very tough decision to be able to analyze the whole idea of the sunk cost fallacy. It's probably one of my favorite financial concepts. But the idea that just because you've put in a certain amount of money does not justify you continuing to go and put in more in the future for something that's not working so well.

Kyle Maynard:
And so I did go and let five of the people go on short notice quickly and ended up, give them a month to figure out what they were going to go and do next, as I felt like that was something that needed to happen. The promises and the excitement that was there and was made, I just wanted to go and do right by them, but at the same time did not want to eat away at the savings that I'd built up entirely for something that wasn't going so great.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's hard. Can you tell us more about what your vision, what kind of venture it was, and what did not happen or did happen that was not aligned with your original vision?

Kyle Maynard:
One of my financial mentors taught me this. He's the vice chairman of AOL, and he said that everything that he goes and gets into, you know, has this double bottom line aspect of purpose and profitability. That theme and that concept is something that I wanted to go and teach people that purpose and profitability. Profitability not just in their business lives, but like in every aspect of their lives.

Kyle Maynard:
And through some of my best friends that are former Navy seals, professional athletes, people that have achieved great things, wanted to be able and go and pull together from their wisdom to be able to create a program to ultimately inspire other people to go and take on these dreams, these visions.

Kyle Maynard:
And it's not dissimilar from, you know, people who have done these types of things before. You know, like the Tony Robbins style events and things like that. We wanted to go and approach it from a different angle, which is still going to happen I know down the road at some point, so I'm not going to go into the details, the specifics of what makes that so different.

Kyle Maynard:
But at the same time holding true to that message, the achievement of that no excuses mentality, which is kind of, that's the core of my messaging is like finding a way. That could be really detrimental when we try to enforce things that are not happening.

Kyle Maynard:
Things were way behind on this project and in order to like kind of pull together and unravel it, like ultimately to realize that by forcing that to happen in the nature of this project, I was going to lose the essence of what it was too, and kind of create something that was just generic that was too similar to what other people had already done too. So it was even still protecting the project at the risk of looking like an idiot. And it's okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's a very grownup decision because you're also number one, protecting your financial assets that you've built up over a decade and that's something very real. But Perez Hilton, of of all people said, when you're building a business, don't always risk all your money. It's okay to take other people's money. You have to protect your own money too, and that's okay.

Kyle Maynard:
Totally. Really, I think that what it comes down to is the idea of fear and ego and looking bad and all of those things should not keep us from making the decisions that we know we need to make. So many of us go through life attached to the image of who we think that we are.

Kyle Maynard:
If we both throw in $50,000 into a business and I'm running the business, I come to you and I say, "Hey, we need to go and put in another $25,000 each". If you justify that in your head based off of the logic that you've already put in 50, it's a faulty logic.

Kyle Maynard:
The right way to make that decision would be as if I've made no investment whatsoever in that, like, would I make that $25,000 investment today. And if you answered yes, then do it and if not, then it's time to walk away from it. And ultimately what I had to go and realize is, if I were to go and make that investment for that payroll and kind of the extended runway and all that stuff, like I wouldn't make that investment today. So then ultimately I've got to make a hard choice now.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson, the takeaway for our listeners from your experience?

Kyle Maynard:
I would say it's to look at whatever the situation, whether it's a financial thing, but it could be like I said, relationship thing, health thing, whatever. Look at where things are like out of order, and frankly are we clinging to something or some idea? Because you know, we think that we've already invested so much in it, like it's a dumb idea. Or like you continue on down that path, you know, whether it's ... I talk to my sisters about that all the time and like, you know, relationships too, it's this exact same way, you know. It's like you don't date somebody just because you dated them for two years. That's not the right way to go about that decision.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. But people do, they feel they've invested in the person, the relationship. I should stick in and that is definitely not good to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me ask you how. So so you are in the fitness business and that's your everyday money tip is how to save money. What to prioritize? What's worth spending money on when you're trying to get in shape? Because you climbed mountains, Kyle, like it's pretty insane what goes on.

Kyle Maynard:
You mentioned this, but I'd owned a gym for a long time too, and actually my first company right out of the gate was a supplement company and learned a tremendous amount about that and just the whole industry. And I think a ton of stuff that we spend money on in health and fitness goes unused and wasted. The biggest thing that you can do I think in the health and fitness journey is to drastically simplify it and spend time actually doing stuff. You know, spend time on, like if you're going to spend money, spend it on getting high quality food, instead of a ton of supplements and shakes and all of that stuff. Spend it on getting real foods, decent quality stuff. If you can eat organic, great. If not, then you can still get high quality food too that's not organic, that maybe it's not going to be as ideal, but like it's going to be pretty good.

Kyle Maynard:
It's going to get you a long ways and you don't need to go in and buy a ton of crazy fitness contraptions like you can make do with simple stuff. Like everyone has access to the gym of the outdoors like and if it's super cold or super hot where you're at, then you have your bedroom, you have a space at some point. You have your body. You have you know so many ways to go and move that don't require expensive $10,000 treadmills.

Kyle Maynard:
Is it an excuse? When it comes down to it, it actually is avoidant of the real issue at hand, which is putting in work and eating high quality food.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So what are you eating for dinner tonight, Kyle?

Kyle Maynard:
Today, I have yet to eat anything yet. I think I'm going to go on a fasting day, and then thrown in ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait a second, guys. Just so you know, we're taping this. It's after noon in San Diego where Kyle is. You haven't eaten till noon. Come on.

Kyle Maynard:
Most days I don't.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're one of those morning faster people.

Kyle Maynard:
Intermittent fasting. Yeah, and also like I'll throw in a periodic like two, three, five day fast every now and then. So ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. That's also not, not the purpose of it.

Kyle Maynard:
Saves money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Save some money I guess. Anyway, so everyone. So Kyle has a bunch of projects going on. but they're top secret. So Kyle's not going to tell us. So I'm just going to have Kyle tell everyone where you can find out about all of his top secret next chapter of his business venture and life adventures. Go for it, Kyle.

Kyle Maynard:
All right. You can hit me up on Instagram is probably the place that I'm a more active, Instagram and Facebook, but Instagram's like pretty much where it's at. Like I've also taken the time to be able to spend the next few months to be able to go at a little slower pace and enjoy and then gear up for some exciting stuff in the fall and the winter.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your handle is Kyle Maynard, is it Kyle Maynard, right?

Kyle Maynard:
It's just KyleMaynard.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kylemayard.com. Cool. All right, everyone. Check him out. Thank you Kyle.

Kyle Maynard:
Awesome. Thank you Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So if there is anyone whose adventures you really need to be following on Instagram, it is Kyle's. This was a serious interview, but he's a really fun guy to watch, so definitely follow him.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's get down to my take. Financial Grownup tip number one. Fail, but with grace and gratitude. I did not hear one bit of pity from Kyle, and I know he really put his all into this venture, so thankfully he did not put it in all his money. There was no finger pointing. He did not blame anyone. He kept his head up.

Bobbi Rebell:
This was not the story we had planned to share. Kyle mentioned it casually as we were setting up. We planned to share something else, so it is possible, even likely, that you guys are the first ones hearing this, and that's pretty brave for Kyle because Kyle's a pretty well known guy who is known for winning, and as he says, no excuses.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Kyle reminds us that we can get in shape at no cost, and that rather than supplements, we can just eat good quality food. My tip buy less precut fruit to save money. So just this week, I realized my family bought a $9 container of cut up organic cantaloupe, which by the way had already gone bad that day so it wasn't even fresh and I had to return it, but $9. Oh my gosh. So first of all, easy way to save money on healthy fruits and vegetables. Cut them up yourself at home.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second, be aware of where to pay up for organic. In general, if it has a skin or an outer layer that you're not eating in general, you don't need to pay up for organic. I'll leave some links with more info in the show notes. And by the way the show notes can always be found by going to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast and scrolling down to the episode. You can also type in bobbirebell.com/podcast and the guest's name. So in this case it would be bobbirebell.com/podcast/kylemaynard.

Bobbi Rebell:
Friends, big thank you. The show is growing. More of you are subscribing, so thank you again. Please tell your friends and all that good stuff. Social media is great, DME. Be in touch on Instagram bobbirebell1, and on Twitter @bobbirebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
And thanks to the great Kyle Maynard for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Speaker 1:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Farnoosh Torabi was underpaid and overworked as a young journalist. But a key piece of information put her on the road- albeit a rocky road- to doubling her pay.  

In Farnoosh’s story you will learn:

-What to ask your HR department to find out if you are underpaid

-Strategies to use if your pay is at the low end of the salary range for your job

-When to know it is time to look for a job outside your current company

-How to handle the big question “How much do you want to make” during job interviews

-How to turn an employers promise of a future raise, into an immediate salary bump

In Farnoosh’s lesson you will learn:

-How to most effectively advocate for yourself

-How Farnoosh was able to persevere even when she faced pushback about her compensation

-The importance of getting the information in advance of negotiations

In Farnoosh’s money tip you will learn:

-Why she advocates checking your numbers every day

-What weight and wealth management have in common

-How she uses Mint

-How checking your finances can help catch financial fraud or hackers

In My Take you will learn:

-My mothers suprising negotiating technique

-How I got a salary above my ‘reach’  range by using it

-My dad’s philosophy on how companies show appreciation

-How to handle being offered a higher title and more responsibility- without a pay bump

Episode Links:

Find out more about Farnoosh’s course “Personal Finance for Grads” on Investopedia.com by going to academy.investopedia.com and look for Personal Finance for Grads. 

Be sure to use the code FARNOOSH20 to get 20% off the $99 course lifetime access. 

Farnoosh also mentions Mint, where you can also check out her columns.

You can learn more about Farnoosh Torabi on her website http://farnoosh.tv/

 

Follower her on social media:

Twitter: @FARNOOSH

Instagram @farnooshtorabi

Facebook: www.facebook.com/FarnooshTorabi

Listen to the So Money podcast on itunes

And check out  my episode from when How to be a Financial Grownup came out!

 

---

Transcription

Farnoosh Torabi:
I was in my mid 20s, wanting to get a raise at my job, kept asking over and over again to no avail. Finally, my father clued me in to this term that was really ground-breaking for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what were the magic words my guest's father told her about? And no, they were not, "I quit," or anything like that. But I do promise you, friends, you will learn a lot about the harsh reality of trying to pry more money out of a current employer, emphasis on current.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're also going to learn a whole lot about the power of information. My guest is Farnoosh Torabi. She is a big name in the personal finance space. You probably know her as the host of the So Money podcast. She's also the author of a growing list of best-selling books, which began with the, You're So Money; Live Rich Even when You're Not, published in 2008, and her most recent, When She Makes More. She also has a red hot course on Investopedia on personal finance. What else? I'm going to ask her about it. Here is Farnoosh Torabi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Farnoosh Torabi, you are a financial grownup, and I am so excited to be chatting with you today.

Farnoosh Torabi:
I'm so glad that I earned this designation. Financial grownup, how great. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so happy you're here, and you're definitely a grownup, and by the way, I have you to thank for inspiring me to do this podcast. It was something that I was thinking about for a while, and we had a little conversation in the green room at the 92nd Street Y before a conference, and that was kind of the final push that I needed. So, I am forever grateful, so thank you.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Oh my gosh. Well, I'm glad to help. I'm happy to serve. I'm in. So wonderful that you're doing this. It makes a hundred thousand percent sense.

Bobbi Rebell:
Women podcasting about personal finance is a category that we want to grow, so we're all in this together. Speaking of growing, you are moving into courses. You have a really cool new thing happening with one of my favorite websites, Investopedia.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Investopedia.com basically brought my dreams to life. I've always wanted to do a money course, but as you know, as people listening know, a course is a big project. It's not just the teaching of the course, but it's the marketing, the infrastructure, the sales, the production, and frankly, all that just made me get dizzy and not feel like at all interested. I just wanted to show up and teach.

Bobbi Rebell:
But this is where you say, "It was worth it, though."

Farnoosh Torabi:
It was worth it. Well, they came to me and they're like, "We'll do all the back end stuff if you can just show up and teach," and that was music to my ears. So, together in collaboration, we created a nine-module money course, catered to graduates, people who are just recently out of college, young adults. They're getting their first paycheck, their first real paycheck, and they want to learn how to maximize it, how to make the most of that weekly/monthly paycheck.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So, you're going to learn about how to budget, how to save, how to invest properly, how to earn more, as salaries have been stagnant for a long time, so really excited about that.

Farnoosh Torabi:
If you go to academy.investopedia.com, and you look for Personal Finance for Grads, that's the new name of the course. We ended up switching it, because we wanted it to be really specific about who we were targeting. Personal Finance for Grads. And if you use the code, FARNOOSH20, you'll get 20% off. It's just 99 bucks, but you'll get another 20 bucks off with that code, FARNOOSH20.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, maybe a good graduation present. Just a couple of months from now, people will be graduating. It's a really good thing, even if you're not a graduate, to think about gifting to someone.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Great idea. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for that plug. It's lifetime access, so whether you buy it now, or in six months, or today, you'll have it forever.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good stuff, and by the way, when I was studying for my CFP, Investopedia was my go-to destination when you're looking for some arcane financial term, they have it all there, so that's my nod to Investopedia.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Well, they're the largest resource for financial information, so makes sense that you were able to bank on their definitions.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, no one would have some of these terms, but they have everything there, so they're a good place to check out, and get your course.

Bobbi Rebell:
But I also want to talk to you about the money story that you have brought today, because it has something that I would love to do, which is that it doubled your salary. So, tell me. How exactly did you double your salary?

Farnoosh Torabi:
I was in my mid 20s, wanting to get a raise at my job, kept asking, over and over again, to no avail. Finally, my father clued me in to this term that was really ground-breaking for me. It was what's known as your salary range or your salary band. It's information that human resources typically has at the ready to give you. They're not going to voluntarily give this to you, but it is your right to know.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So, I went to HR, because what this salary band essentially tells you, is what your employer has budgeted for your job, for your post. At the time, I was a producer. I discovered through HR that the salary band for my job at this particular new station, was anywhere from $44,000 up to $85,000/$90,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a big range.

Farnoosh Torabi:
That's a big range, and guess what? I was on the very low end of that range, despite having been there going on three years, doing multiple jobs that were above and beyond my original job requirements-

Bobbi Rebell:
And they didn't just come to you and say, "You're working really hard. Let's just give you [crosstalk 00:06:09]-

Farnoosh Torabi:
No.

Bobbi Rebell:
No, really? That's shocking.

Farnoosh Torabi:
When did that ever happen? So, I was taking all the right steps, but this was gold, you know, learning actually what my company at the most, valued me at, was gold. Now, I will say that I used that in my next meeting with my boss, "Since I have some updates, I discovered that I actually can make up to, you know, $90,000 in this role. I've been here for three years. I'm still at the very low end. I'm like in the fifth percentile of this range, so I'm not saying I want to make $90,000, but I do think we could bump me up like five or ten K." And it was, "Okay, maybe when we review budgets." It wasn't like a done deal.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So, then I started to really see the handwriting on the wall, started to look outside for a new job. When I got interviews, I never forgot that salary range, and when I finally got close to a deal at this new employer, and they were talking money, they said, "How much do you want to make?" And I remembered that range, because that range was not ... Look, remember that's not just a range probably for your employer, but it's industry norms.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, companies know what's going on in their sector.

Farnoosh Torabi:
They know what's going on, and this new job that I was interviewing for, was a step up for me, and it was a more senior position, so that range was probably not even valid, but I used it as a baseline. So I said, "I would like to make $100,000." They said, "Well, we don't have a hundred, but we can give you 80."

Bobbi Rebell:
That sounds good.

Farnoosh Torabi:
I said, "Okay, well, you know what? I really, really want a hundred," and they said, "Well, why don't we start at 80, and then in six months we'll review where you're at, and we'll discuss maybe giving you a hundred at that point."

Farnoosh Torabi:
And I'm like, "Okay. This is the time to take all the money you can." When you're in negotiations. In six months, they're not even going to remember what they said about some meeting they wanted to have with you.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So, I said, "Look, can I have 90, and then I won't bother you in six months."

Bobbi Rebell:
I like that.

Farnoosh Torabi:
And they said, "Sure," nice and clean. And you know, so effectively, I doubled my salary. I went from 45 to 90, and I owe credit to knowing that salary range.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, Farnoosh, what is the lesson from your Financial Grownup money story?

Farnoosh Torabi:
The lesson is, you have to be your biggest advocate. You have to continually be curious about what it is you're after. So, I was not going to take "No," for an answer from my boss, and I just kept exploring, and digging, and questioning, "How can I make more money?"

Farnoosh Torabi:
And I talked to my family about it. It ended up my dad was the one who told me about this salary band thing, which I had no idea about. If I hadn't told him about it, I probably wouldn't have walked into HR, and asked them for the number, so don't give up. You know, a "No," is one step closer to a "Yes." As long as you stay curious, and determined.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, let me ask you. Do you have a day-to-day money tip, an everyday thing that you can recommend to people that they can implement right away?

Farnoosh Torabi:
Implement right away. I would say check your numbers every day. Look, I don't do this all the time, but I do step on a scale quite frequently, because I want to make sure that, you know, if I had a pretty crazy weekend of eating, I can check in with myself. I keep myself accountable. Like I'm, "Okay, I've gained a few pounds. I need to be mindful of what I'm putting in my mouth this week."

Farnoosh Torabi:
Your money's the same thing. Like you might have a week or a month where you overspend. It's important to know where you're at at all times, so that you can adjust. You can continually readjust and adjust and fine-tune your finances, but you're never going to be able to do that unless you have the knowledge of where you are financially.

Farnoosh Torabi:
So, on my phone, I am constantly checking my bank balance, my credit card balance. I check my Mint app, just to see am I over-spending, under-spending? I set budget limits for myself. This maybe isn't an every-hour or an every-day thing, but it certainly should be a regular, maybe twice to five times a week kind of thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, it's also smart to check in because there's so much hacking and fraud, that this way you spot it.

Farnoosh Torabi:
Absolutely, right. For that reason alone, you should be checking your bank account.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you for all the amazing advice, and thank you for being part of this new program. We really appreciate it.

Farnoosh Torabi:
My pleasure. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take, guys. Part of being a financial grownup is taking advice from your parents. I'm not always the best negotiator. I'm going to toss this one to my parents, and share some advice that they have given me over the years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup negotiating strategy number one, courtesy of Adele Rebell, the Just Keep Your Mouth Shut technique, meaning let the other person say the first number.

Bobbi Rebell:
True story, I once had a number in mind as a reach for a job. I didn't think I was going to get anywhere near that kind of money, but I kept my mouth shut, let them make the first move, and the offer came in $10,000 higher than that reach number.

Bobbi Rebell:
Then, I sat there. I was calm, cool, collected, pretended it wasn't enough money, asked for more, and you know what? I got another $5,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
Bonus tip, by the way, from my mother, the Keep Your Mouth Shut strategy can also work for losing weight. I'm a CFP, not a nutritionist, but guys, it does work, because of course you eat less food.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, back to our focus on money. Financial Grownup strategy number two, comes from my father, Arthur Rebell. Companies show love and appreciation with money. Companies may try to distract you with a fancy new title and lots of new responsibilities, but then they don't give you a meaningful raise.

Bobbi Rebell:
Imagine if you tried to pay your Visa bill by saying, "Well, my budget's tight, but I'm going to call you my Senior Global Credit Card. Yeah, not so much. Take the higher title, and say "Yes," to moving up in terms of responsibilities. That's all good, but just know, it is not the same as a raise. Companies show love through compensation, aka money. So try to keep the focus on the money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for the amazing feedback that we have already been getting on the program. It is truly appreciated. Please subscribe, download, share, review, rate, all that good stuff. We need it. We are a brand new podcast. All of your support means the world to us.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope everyone enjoyed the show, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Shark Tank’s Kevin O’Leary shares a story about his mother and a secret he learned about after she passed away. The Entrepreneur, who is also behind O’Shares and O’Leary Ventures  reveals in the story how his mothers choices informed his investing style, which is heavily focused on dividends. 

He goes on to discuss the two types of investments his mother chose, including her thinking and mindset in making those choices. 

O'Leary also talks about the importance of the tax changes and why that is something that will benefit investors who follow his strategy. 

In his money tip Kevin explains how people who can’t save can find the money to get on track. He also reveals another lesson from his mother that was a bit surprise. O'Leary also shares his 90 day money test that he does with his wealthy friends to help them stay rich. 

O'Leary talks about an app that he launched  called Beanstox that allows investors to buy small dollar amounts of ETF’s and market-leading stocks. It gets people into investing without having to commit large amounts of capital up-front. 

Links to things mentioned in this episode

Kevin O’Leary’s financial literacy books the Cold Hard Truth series can be found here. 

His app to start investing can be found at Beanstox

To learn more about the companies he backs as well as his wine business and more, go to O’LEARY VENTURES

Kevin also talked about his ETF business O'Shares

In his story about his mom he spoke about Chanel and Gucci

Books I recommended in the episode: 

The Opposite of Spoiled by Ron Lieber

Smart Money Smart Kids, Raising the next generation to win with money by Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruz

Make your Kid a Money Genius even if you are not by Beth Kobliner

 

Money A-Z Scott Alan Turner

Steve Jobs, The man who thought different by Karen Blumenthal

 

I also mention Fincon which is a fantastic conference for anyone who creates content about money, 

---

Transcription

Kevin O'Leary:
The executor called me and said, "Look, your mother has kept a secret account from both of your husbands her whole life, you should come here because you're not going to be executor of this".

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grown Up, and you know what, being the grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, welcome to this edition of Financial Grown Up, and for those of you who have not guessed yet, yes that was the voice of Kevin O'Leary, aka Mr. Wonderful on Shark Tank. He is going to join us in just a moment to share a story about a secret, a financial lesson secret that he learned from his mother only after she passed away. It is a great story and it's gonna change your whole mindset about how you think about investing, so stick with me here. I just want to do a quick introduction to Kevin, tell you guys a little bit more about him for the maybe one or two people out there that don't know exactly who Kevin O'Leary is.

Bobbi Rebell:
He is a serial entrepreneur. He's got his own ventures including an investment company that focuses on dividend ETS. He also is in the wine business and of course, O'Leary Venture supports all the Shark Tank companies that he's invested in. Recent success of note, Plated, which he sold for a cool 300 million dollars. He's also got a really interesting app I want you guys to hear about and you will hear about it in just a moment. Here is Kevin O'Leary.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kevin O'Leary you are a financial grown up and I'm so excited you are on the podcast. Welcome.

Kevin O'Leary:
Great to be here. Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you are, of course, so special in my heart because you are such an advocate for financial literacy. You make it part of everything that you do, including your entrepreneurial ventures. Before we get to the financial grown up moment that you're gonna share with us, I do wanna have you tell us more about the app Beanstox. Tell us about Beanstox.

Kevin O'Leary:
You know, for the last few years I've been teaching at colleges and high schools and I've just been stunned by the fact that we teach young people in America pretty well everything about math and reading, geography, even sex education, but we never talk to them about financial literacy. We never teach them how to invest, and even when I teach graduating cohorts of engineers at places like MIT, Harvard, Notre Dame, Temple, I'm blown away that these young people going off in the workforce have never bought a stock or bonds.

Kevin O'Leary:
So, the genesis of Beanstox, and I've spelt it B-E-A-N-S-T-O-X, is an app. You download it and it allows you to buy fractional shares of your favorite stocks or exchange traded funds, which means if you only have $2 to invest, or $5, or $10 or whatever you've got, you can actually own a real share and learn about how the prices go up and down, when dividends get paid, and just to build a diversified portfolio. I find when you do that on your mobile device, you actually watch it every day. Some people go on 10 times a day, and I've just been thrilled.

Kevin O'Leary:
Hundreds of thousands of them have been downloaded now. People have set up accounts, even if they only put in 50 bucks a month, it's great to start investing because the truth about America is the average salary is $52,000 a year, and if you started investing just 10% of your income at the age of 22, by the time you're 65, if the markets do what they have done for the last 50 years, which is give you six to seven percent a year of return, you'll have 1.2 million dollars sitting in the bank for-

Bobbi Rebell:
Very nice, all right, everybody check out Beanstox now. I'm really excited for you to share your financial grown up moment money story because my mom passed away a few years ago and it's, in some ways, only in retrospect that I learned some really important lessons from her, and you learned a big lesson from your mom at that time.

Kevin O'Leary:
Yes, when she passed away, I was the older son. I'm two years older than my brother, so the executer called me and said, "Look, your mother's kept a secret account from both of her husbands her whole life, you should come here because you're now gonna be the executor of this" and when I got there, I was blown away. I mean she ... I had always wondered how she'd provided for my brother and I, her sisters, and her extended family. She always seemed to have money, and what she had done is she had done exactly that.

Kevin O'Leary:
She had put aside more than 10% of her paycheck when she was a young woman, and she invested in two types of securities. 50% of this portfolio were in large cap dividend paying stocks, and the other half were in Telco bonds, five to seven year bonds and her thinking was that nobody would ever let their phone be disconnected by not paying their bill, so she trusted Telco Company, and this portfolio, over 50 years, outperformed everybody else in the family's, so I did some research.

Kevin O'Leary:
It really changed my mind forever about investing. 70% of the returns of the stock market over the last 50 years have come from dividends, not capital appreciation, so I never buy a stock today that doesn't pay a dividend. I learned that from my mother, and her whole mantra was never spend the principle, only the interest. She was so right about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's interesting because that really did inform your whole approach to investing and your whole business, when it comes to your ETF business.

Kevin O'Leary:
Yes. O'Shares is build around her philosophy. We don't have a single security in any of our O'Shares funds, including the new midcap one OUSM. The reason I'm really intrigued with midcap stocks in America today, the ones that pay dividends, is because of this tax reform. They used to pay 36% tax, now they pay 21, so their cash flows this year are going to grow up by 15 to 20% more free cash. And if you look at the Russell 2,000, which is the universe of all the small companies in America, 339 are profitable and pay tax, and they're all captured in OUSM.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, all right so, what is the take away lesson from that story? Do you wish, for example, that you talked to your mom more about her money philosophy and what she was doing?

Kevin O'Leary:
Basically the take away story is this. When you start saving, there's two aspects to your saving. There's the principal, the money you're putting away, and then there's the interest you make off the principal, or the dividends you get if you bought a stock. What she basically said was it's okay to spend and live off the dividends and interest, but it's not okay to spend the principal, because once you spend the principal, you never get it back.

Kevin O'Leary:
The principal is what makes the money for you, so that philosophy is, you live off interest, you live off dividends, and that's how you monetize your lifestyle, but you never dip in to your principal. Some people say, well I really wanna buy a boat, I wanna buy a bigger house, I wanna buy something and I can't because I don't make enough, and they spend their principal. That always ends badly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow, all right. Your mom was definitely a financial grown up and certainly we appreciate you sharing what she taught you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before you go, give us a money tip for our listeners. Something that you do that maybe they can emulate that can make a difference in their financial wellbeing right now. Something they can implement today.

Kevin O'Leary:
I've learned this years and years ago, and again taught to by my mother. When you go out every day, the whole world is designed to take money from you. That's how they market and tell you to buy this or get a new latte or buy new jeans or a new pair of shoes. Every time you get tempted to buy something, and I do this even to this day, I ask myself, do I really need this thing, do I really need it because when I take it, I take my cash and I buy it, I'm basically killing those dollars in terms of them making me interest or dividends because I bought those shoes or I bought those pants or I bought whatever it was.

Kevin O'Leary:
People say to me, well I can't save 10% of my salary. I'm living paycheck to paycheck, and I always remind them what my mother said, yes you can. You buy so much crap that you don't need and anybody can look in their closet and look at all the stuff they don't wear anymore. The shoes they don't wear or the junk they bought, and so I've really, really learned, buy really good things once in a while. And I'll tell you the anecdotal story.

Kevin O'Leary:
When my mother passed away, the women in my family fought like cats or dogs because all her clothes were Channel and Gucci and really good stuff that she kept for decades, but she didn't buy any crap, and that was her lesson to me. Buy a good suit. Buy a great pair of shoes, but don't buy a bunch of junk. That way you feel good about what you own, but you save a lot of money, and I've been able to cut my spending by a ton because I don't buy crap, and because she taught me that.

Kevin O'Leary:
Even wealthy people I work with, I do this special test with them, I say get a piece of paper, just two sheets, you don't need any technology.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh no.

Kevin O'Leary:
And write down all of the things you make money from in 90 days, and all the money you spend in 90 days, and even really wealthy people outspend their income, and they learned sobering basis. That's my lesson. Do your 90 day test, but don't buy crap. You don't need it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much Kevin O'Leary. It was such a pleasure having you. We will all keep tuning in to Shark Tank and all your other ventures, thank you.

Kevin O'Leary:
Take care.

Bobbi Rebell:
I always love talking with Kevin O'Leary, he's an amazing advocate for financial literacy and such an inspiration. Here is my take and it probably won't surprise you guys. Financial grown up tip number one, talk to your parents about money, and yes, get their advice, but also try to get them to open up about what they did right and also, just as important, what they would have done differently. Get them to share their financial grown up moments, their money stories. When we're kids, our parents often shelter us from what is really going on behind the scenes in our daily lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
For example, I remember as a teenager, my family moved into a bigger and newer house. Now, I didn't think that much about it, when I saw my mom putting towels over the windows. It was a little weird, but you know parents can be weird. What I learned later on was that they had really stretched to buy the house, and they were waiting, holding off to buy the window coverings, so my mom was basically making due with what she had, and really, it was just fine, no big deal.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, financial grown up tip number two, if and when you have kids, make a plan for how you want them to learn about money. There is no right or wrong plan here, every kid has different ways of learning and every family has different things that are right for them. Find out what works for you guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Some resources though, I am a big fan of a book called The Opposite Of Spoiled by Ron Lieber. Another classic to check out, Smart Money, Smart Kids by Dave Ramsey and Rachel Cruise, and finally, Make Your Kid A Money Genius by Beth Kobliner. Check them out. And, for fun, I was recently gifted a book at FinCon by Scott Allen Turner called Money A To Z. It was a lot of fun to read with my child, and of course, don't shy away from business stories for kids, especially as they get older.

Bobbi Rebell:
Harry is now 10 and we are reading about Steve Jobs. The actual book title if you guys wanna check it out is Steve Jobs The Man Who Thought Different. It is by Karen Blumenthal. It's opening up a lot of discussions about funding a start up and all the different things that go into a business. It's also interesting to read about Steve Jobs and all of his personal quirks, so I will leave it to you guys to see if you wanna read that book with your children or just check it out yourself.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for listening to Financial Grown Up. We are new and we need your support. Please subscribe to this podcast and then of course, be sure to rate and review it on iTunes and especially please share this with your friends. And until next time, I am wishing all of you financial freedom.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is a BRK Media production.

Fran Hauser became a financial grownup very young, helping her immigrant parents build their businesses by doing the books and serving as a liaison to clients as early as 1st grade. The author of “The Myth of the Nice Girl, Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate” now applies those early life lessons to her search for  startup investment opportunities.   

 

In Fran’s money story you will learn:

-How growing up as the english speaking daughter of Italian immigrants impacted her path to being a financial grownup

-What it was like to be preparing invoices for her parents businesses starting in 1st grade

-What she learned about risk and investment from observing her father’s strategies

-How her parents took risks despite their disadvantages, and the impact that had on her current risk tolerance

-How she integrates those skills when she considers startup investors in her current role as an early stage investor

-The specific characteristics she looks for when evaluating startups

In Fran’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to conquer fear of mistakes

-The importance of integrating kindness and respect

In Fran’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How Fran teachers her children about money using a 5 gallon water jug

-How much they saved

-How they spent the money!

In My Take you will learn:

-The impact of saying Thank You instead of Sorry

-How the correct tone in which a message is delivered can make it more effective

Bobbi and Fran also talk about:

-Her new book The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate

-What inspired Fran to write the book after more than a decade of planning

-The unique scripts that are in the book that readers can use to execute the strategies Fran teaches

-What the Nice Girl Army is, and how you can laern more about it

-Fran’s plans now that the book has been a best seller!

Episode Links:

Learn more about Fran at her website Franhauser.com

 

Buy Fran’s book! http://www.franhauser.com/nicegirl/

 

Follow Fran!

instagram fran_hauser

twitter @fran_hauser

  

---

Transcription

Fran Hauser:
When my father was asked to go look at a job, a potential client, and give them an estimate, he wasn't able to understand the directions to actually get to the house. So I would listen in on another phone and write down the directions, and then I would go in the car to the residence, and then I would get out and I basically be the translator.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, that was author, Fran Hauser. Now, this is a very big interview for me because she is very much in demand after her book, The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate, became a huge hit this summer. It has many of us rethinking the things that women thought we had to do to succeed. No more mean girls, and there's a lot in there for men as well. So stay with me everyone, this is not just for women listeners. Special welcome to our new listeners, if you are returning, thank you as well for your support. We keep the shows to about 15 minutes so you can easily fit it into your busy schedule, but we also release three episodes a week. So feel free to binge if you're commuting, just make sure to select auto download after you subscribe so that they'll be in your feed automatically. It's all about making it easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Fran. After a long career in media, which included being the president of digital at Time, she is now an investor in startups, and she got a lot of the training for that from her upbringing being a very active part of her parents businesses. Here is Fran Hauser.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Fran Hauser, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Fran Hauser:
Hi Bobbi, great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the incredible success of your book, The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love, circled in a bright red circle, Without Becoming a Person You Hate, big X over the 'Hate' of course. Since the book's come out it's been named so many different things, including an Amazon Best Business Book of 2018, best new book by People magazine and Refinery 29, most anticipated title of April by Bustle, I mean I could just basically go on. Congratulations on all of that, Fran.

Fran Hauser:
Oh thank you. It's really been amazing, I feel so grateful.

Bobbi Rebell:
You came to us with a story that's really meaningful, because it has to do with your whole family and the money experiences that you learned growing up from your parents, in the town where my sister now lives, Mount Kisco, and you were their bookkeeper in their businesses in first grade, tell us about that.

Fran Hauser:
Yes. So my parents are Italian immigrants who moved to Mount Kisco, as you said, and like many immigrants it took a lot of courage to make this move. They were uneducated, they didn't speak the language, and they were moving to a place that was completely foreign to them. What each of my parents did have though, was a skill. So my father was a stonemason, my mother was really good at sewing, so they both started small businesses. My dad a stonemeasonry business, and my mom opened up a tailoring shop with her best friend. Being the oldest of four, they needed my help, especially when it came to communication. So when I was in first grade I was preparing all of my dad's invoices. One memory that I have is I could only add at that point in time, I couldn't multiply yet, so my aunt actually created a sales tax chart for me, so that if the monthly maintenance was $300, I could see exactly what the sales tax was, and then just add the two numbers together.

Fran Hauser:
So that was first grade, and then even in middle school I was helping my mother with marketing. So helping her come up with a logo, and getting different marketing and sales materials printed. So I got exposed to business at a very young age, and even understanding things like revenue, and expense, cashflow, you know seeing that when more cash comes in than goes out, decisions that need to be made around what to do with that extra money. It was really interested watching my dad because he took some calculated risks and invested in both commercial and residential real estate, which proved to be fruitful. I would say at a very, very, very young age I played this role of bookkeeper/marketer/general manager.

Fran Hauser:
Another vivid memory I have that I'll just share with you is when my father was asked to go look at a job, a potential client, and give them an estimate, he wasn't able to understand the directions to actually get to the house. So I would listen in on another phone and write down the directions, and then I would go in the car with him and we would actually drive to the residence together, and then I would get out and I would basically be the translator for him. So that was my childhood, pretty unconventional.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Very unconventional. How did you assume this role? Were there specific deliberate conversations, or did it just evolve organically as you grew up in the household?

Fran Hauser:
It really evolved organically, because I was the oldest. Really, these things just fell on me. It made sense, if something was broken, even in the house, and needed to be repaired, I would be the one to call the plumber or the contractor, and at the time it felt really hard. It was frustrating, for sure, at times because I just felt so different from all of my "American" friends, who were doing sleepovers and play dates, and I had so much more responsibility. Obviously, looking back, it was actually such an incredible experience, because I learned so much, not just about business but also about risk taking. Watching my parents, who had so much going against them, they were at such a disadvantage, but they were still able to take these risks. Whether it was building these businesses, or investing in real estate, and if you look at my career, I've taken many risks in my career. I've reinvented myself several times. I left Coca-Cola and the late nineties to go to an early stage internet company, Movie Phone. Or five years ago, I left a really comfortable job at Time Inc. to move into startup investing.

Fran Hauser:
So I haven't been afraid to take risks, and I think a lot of that comes from seeing how disadvantaged my parents were, and feeling like if they could take risks, I should be able to.

Bobbi Rebell:
I wanted to ask you, so you mentioned, and I was going to bring this up, that you now are a startup investor. How did this background in business and understanding risks, and understanding strategy and marketing, and even just the basic economics of business, how does that inform your approach as an investor now?

Fran Hauser:
So I think in a lot of ways. For starters, when I'm evaluating the entrepreneurs I'm looking at them and I'm saying, "Do they have the capacity to take risks? Will they jump in with both feet?" And I'm also looking at what kind of mindset do they have? Are they optimistic? I always felt like my parents approached every single venture with such optimism, and with an abundance mindset, and treating people kindly and with respect. So those are things that I really look for in an entrepreneur, and then the other side of it is the brass tactics operational side, which is I feel like I'm really good at looking at financials and understanding what the risks are, really getting nitpicky when it comes to the assumptions that are being used. So I feel like I can look at a PnL pretty quickly, and projected cashflows, and all that good stuff, and I'm just co comfortable. I'm so comfortable with numbers, and I'm so comfortable with looking at forecasts and really trying to make sense of it, and also understanding is there a there there?

Fran Hauser:
The other part too, I would say, is just understanding markets, understanding consumers. I think that also comes from just having spent so much time with my parents clients. So it's impacted me as an investor in so many different ways.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson then, for our listeners from this, that they can apply to their businesses, and to some degree, to their lives?

Fran Hauser:
I would say the lesson is to not be afraid to take risks, and when you do so, really approach it with a mindset of abundance and optimism, and don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to go all in and to jump in with both feet, and then also the last thing I would say, which really ties back to the book, is to treat people with kindness and respect, because I think you look at my parents who barely spoke a word of english, and they were still able to communicate through a lot of nonverbal cues, and a lot of that had to do with being charming, and being kind, and that will take you far.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because the book is really all about being nice, but in a strategic and smart way.

Fran Hauser:
Yes, being nice in a way where you're not a pushover, and you're not veering into people pleasing territory. It's really about how you can be both nice and strong. Those two things are not mutually exclusive, and that you bring both of those into virtually any situation at work.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your everyday money tip, because one thing that I love about this is it's very specific, and tangible, and something we can all do pretty much right away.

Fran Hauser:
Yeah, I love this. So what we do in my house is, instead of a normal piggy bank, we collect coins in a five gallon water jug. The kids love it because it's so much bigger than a piggy bank, and it's clear, so you can see the progress. The last time we cashed it in the coins were worth $4000, and it took us several years to fill it up, but it's just a really fun way to teach your kids about saving and about goals.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you cash it in, what's that experience like? Is it one of the machines, or do you bring it to a bank?

Fran Hauser:
It's actually hysterical because it's so heavy, so what you have to do is we put duct tape over the top of it to close it, and then we literally roll it-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my God.

Fran Hauser:
We have to roll it down the-

Bobbi Rebell:
You could get a smaller container, Fran, you know that?

Fran Hauser:
I know, but it's part of the experience, I guess. So much fun, and then we literally bring it into the bank. The teller always has so much fun with it, because it's not something that they usually see.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you do with the $4000 then?

Fran Hauser:
The first time we did it my husband and I, it was actually pre-kids, so we ended up spending it on a really great spa vacation, which was great. Just the two of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
That works.

Fran Hauser:
That works, right? And now with the kids we're just starting to talk to them about, "Okay, what do we want to spend it on?" And that's also really fun, because it allows you to bat around ideas and then have something that you're really excited about, you have something to look forward to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. We'll have to get an update and put it in the show notes as to where the money goes. I want to spend just a couple of minutes talking about your book, because it's had so much impact.

Fran Hauser:
Yes. The book is really my response to a question that I get asked all the time, which is, "How can you be so nice, and still be successful?" It's just a topic that I've found myself talking about quite a bit, and it's something that I really believe. Being nice, and being empathetic, and collaborative, and having an abundance mindset. All of those things have really served me well in my career. If I think about some of the bigger promotions that I received, or if I was asked to work on a really high profile project, a lot of that came back to my ability to build relationships and earn trust, and a lot of that goes back to being nice.

Fran Hauser:
So the book is really actual, I mean it's inspiring, but I think what makes it special is I am such an operator at heart that I really wanted to make sure that we filled it with tips, and techniques, and scripts. There are so many scripts for navigating sticky situations.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, there are very specific things, because people think, "Well, this happens to me, what do I ..." they literally don't have the words. Like when someone takes credit for an idea that you had, you go into exactly what to do, which is important.

Fran Hauser:
Yes, and I have to tell you one really cool thing, just over the past week I've had three different women tell me that they all got really big raises using my advice in the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Fantastic. And now, you're now working on this Nice Girl Army, right? That's your saying on social media, and you bring together all these different stories that relate to that.

Fran Hauser:
Yes. My Nice Girl Army is actually a group of ambassadors that I put together, probably about six to nine months ago. A lot of them are former mentees, or current mentees, they really love the message in the book, and they've really gotten behind the book. It's basically a Google group I've created where we all communicate with one another, and they've all been so helpful in promoting the book, and I think from a hashtag perspective, it's taken on this bigger movement feel to it. It's just been really fun to see women who I don't know reading the book and using that hashtag, and saying how much they love the book, and how much it's helped them.

Fran Hauser:
So I think in terms of what I'm thinking about next, it's really how do I take all of this great content that's in the book, and what else can I do with that content? So I'm just starting to think about some product extensions from the book, which is really exciting, and then still doing my day job, which is investing and advising, which is something that I've put on pause a little bit over the last few months as I've been working on the book tour. So I'm really excited to get back into that as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Well, I want to make sure everyone can, first of all get the book if they haven't gotten it yet, but more importantly, also know where to find you and follow to get updates on all of these different projects.

Fran Hauser:
Yes, definitely. So my website is FranHauser, H-A-U-S-E-R, .com, and you can get all the information about the book and where to buy the book there. My Instagram and Twitter handle is the same, it's Fran_Hauser, and of course you can always connect with me on Linkedin as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Fran. I love the book, and if there's anyone out there who hasn't read it yet, please pick it up, it's wonderful, well worth investing the time. Thank you Fran.

Fran Hauser:
Thank you Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, so Fran and I really just scratched the surface in that interview, here's a little bit more wisdom from her book. Financial Grownup tip number one; one thing that Fran talks about in The Myth of the Nice Girl is the importance of how things are presented, the tone that you use in your voice. So you can be firm, and not be a pushover, and still be nice. Think about the way that you say things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two; don't say sorry so much. Try replacing it with "Thank you." Fran points out that many women apologize of things that not only were not their fault, but also they aren't really sorry about. For example, not being able to attend an event. She would often apologize for declining an invitation, instead, she advises to simply say, "Thank you for the invitation." And say that you will not be able to attend.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you have not already, please hit that subscribe button and be in touch on Twitter, @BobbiRebell, on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook I am @BobbiRebell. And learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. And thank you to the wonderful Fran Hauser for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

When entrepreneurs Daniel Levine and Steven Pulver started their Fireside Conference in Canada 4 years ago, their ambition was so hot it burned through their budget, putting the conference in the red. 

In Dan and Steve’s money story you will learn:

-The backstory of their first Fireside Conference

-The key thing that they did not factor into their budget

-How they select who attends the Fireside conference, and how they believe that curation ties into their success

-The missing thing in the conference marketplace that they identified, and inspired them to create their own conference

-The personal connection they have to the location of the conference

-Where their funding came from at the start of the venture

-Why they were $30,000 in debt when the first conference ended

In Dan and Steve’s money lesson you will learn:

-Why they decided to stay on their original trajectory even though the conference lost money in year one. 

-What the data from the first conference showed them and how they leveraged the data for the future

-The role that social media played in their success, even though there was no cell phone reception (or use) at the conference

-How they monetized a very small audience by focusing on community curation

In Dan and Steve’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Why they allocated a significant budget to in-person events to connect with their community

-The quick realization that they could have more impact on a lower budget by changing one key thing. 

-How you can apply that to your networking and marketing, or even just your friendships and personal relationships

-Why spending more money to impress people is often not effective and can sometimes dilute the potential impact

In My Take you will learn:

-How the new hit show Succession illustrated the same point as the Fireside guys- wealthy people are not impressed by expensive stuff. Just be real with them. 

-How I implement the same strategy, hosting friends and colleagues in my home, rather than taking them out for fancy impersonal dinners

-The significance of pro-actively choosing how you fund a startup

-How self-funding allows for a less painful failure, because while you lose your money, you maintain control and avoid pressure to cut losses from outside investors

Dan, Steven and Bobbi also talk about

-Dan and Steve’s entrepreneurial venture MinuteBox.com

-The next Fireside conference in September

-The speakers at the next conference will include Jordan Harbinger and Jason Calcanis

-How to get preferential consideration for the conference

 

Episode Links

Learn more about the Fireside Conference!

 

Follow them on social media!

-twitter @firesideconf, @daniellevine

-instagram @fireside_conf

 

Learn about their 2018 speakers:

Jordan Harbinger

Jason Calcanis

 

Learn more about the show I mentioned- HBO's Succession!

---

Transcription

Daniel Levine:
We didn't have a sense of when we told people that it was going to be all you can drink, what that meant on the bottom line, and we didn't really have a sense of when you do a conference in the middle of nowhere three and half hours from the closest big city, what that means when you have to start helping to arrange transportation for people.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money but it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes my friends, the bar tab can get pretty expensive, especially when you offer it unlimited all weekend long, and that was just the beginning for entrepreneurs, Steven Pulver and Daniel Levine when they started the Fire Side Conference in Canada four years ago. The team wanted everything to be perfect for their first experience, but perfect does not come cheap. Lots of lessons and take aways here are Steven Pulver and Daniel Levine.

Bobbi Rebell:
Daniel Levine and Steven Pulver, you're financial grown ups, welcome to the podcast.

Steven Pulver:
Thanks so much for having us.

Daniel Levine:
Pleasure to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys hold the honor of being the first team that I've had on. So this is going to be cool. We'll see how it goes.

Daniel Levine:
Thank you. We're looking forward to it.

Steven Pulver:
Hopefully no screw ups but we're looking forward to it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys are going to be great. Alright you are Canadian entrepreneurs and you are the brains behind a conference that I was very impressed by when I started learning about it, The Fireside Conference. It's happening for the fourth year in September, up in Canada. You're also entrepreneurs yourselves. This is a conference for entrepreneurs, you are entrepreneurs. Your company is MinuteBox, which is cloud based, software basically for law firms to help them be compliant with the various regulations in Canada but the conference is really the focus that I want to talk about here because your money story is about.

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us what happened, this is year four. I want to hear what happened in the first year, because I think it's some that a lot of entrepreneurs and just people that have ideas about starting businesses or just managing their own finances will relate to and hopefully learn from

Steven Pulver:
For sure. It starts in 2014 when Fireside itself was born and just for your listeners to take just a 30 second overview of what Fireside is, and how it differs from a traditional conference. So Fireside at its core is an invite only retreat for entrepreneurs, founders, investors, influencers from all over the world that we invite up to a summer camp every September.

Steven Pulver:
We started our first official year in 2015. Daniel and I were looking around our community and saying there's a lot of great networking events, there's a lot of great events and things to bring the community together, but the biggest failure they all had was the inability to really bring people together on a way deeper level than just meeting in a conference hall.

Steven Pulver:
So we kind of said there's got to be a better venue that we can do a conference or an event at and we landed on this amazing summer camp where children are there all summer as a sleepover camp outside Bancroft, Ontario, Canada.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you have a personal connection, right? You have a personal connection to the camp.

Steven Pulver:
Yeah so I spent 24 years there both as a camper and staff and worked my way all the way up from counselor to head staff and eventually leadership team and helped a run a lot of the programming. So I was obviously incredibly biased. Daniel actually had attended camp Alden as well as a staff. So when we were looking at venues we were obviously both biased in knowing this was an amazing place to do this at.

Steven Pulver:
We had no video of photos of Fireside itself. When we were trying to market and spend money on ads and things like that, we literally had no real starting point. So because of that everything we were doing, we were fresh into. So we were throwing a lot of stuff at the wall, as we continue to do today, to see what would stick.

Bobbi Rebell:
Had you done any market research or anything? What was your background that made you qualified to do this?

Steven Pulver:
I think we would be completely foolish to say now that we had any form of subject matter expertise in running events, other than wanting to do something amazing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where was you funding coming from, did you have budget, how did this come together from a financial perspective?

Daniel Levine:
So in our first year, from a financial perspective, it really came together very loosely and in an unstructured way, and hopefully not to ruin the story, but that's how we found ourselves about $30,000 in debt at the end of it. We looked at pricing and we weren't looking at pricing as a factor or breakeven. We weren't looking at it as a function necessarily of our cost. We really went into this with an, "if you build it they will come" attitude and really not having pedigrees in the areas of conferences or event management. We didn't have a sense of when we told people that it was going to be all you can drink, what that really meant on the bottom line, and we didn't really have a sense of when you do a conference in the middle of nowhere three and a half hours from the closest big city, what that means when you have start helping to arrange transportation for people.

Daniel Levine:
So it really was both a combination of not having a budget, but also really just, as you put it, not having any qualifications for doing something like this that had us at the end of a really magical two and half days turn to each other and realize that we really were not in a good financial position.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you spend? Give me some of the numbers, what did you spend on the conference and where, and was your revenue that you did have?

Steven Pulver:
Back then, I should say, our only revenue source was tickets. So our tickets were, Dan what was it, $300 to $500 range?

Daniel Levine:
Yeah.

Steven Pulver:
Let's say give or take $350 to $400 on average, in terms of ticket price. That was really our main source of revenue. We had a little bit of sponsorship at the time, but when we're talking about money coming in the door, we're really looking in the $20,000 to $30,000 range or just pure revenue. Now, there's a lot of costs involved, so of course things are completely dependent on the number of people that we have enter the gates of camp. So back then we were about 75 people, now we're around 400, so obviously that has changed quite a bit, but back then, alcohol was a huge cost.

Steven Pulver:
Swag, wanting to give people, for instance, under that swag category I would put whether they'd be water bottles, or [inaudible 00:06:28], or pieces like that. Food, obviously, is a huge piece. Those were the big, big, big costs, and when Dan and I looked at this and we said, "We want to create an amazing event," we didn't have budget in mind. That certainly doesn't mean we had an unlimited budget, but we were never going to sacrifice the quality of, say, the food, or the amount of food, or the amount of alcohol, or the amount of drinks, or whatever it might be, on account of our budget in that first year.

Steven Pulver:
We didn't really know where we were going with it, but kind of both said, "We're in, or we're not." And once we made that decision to go ahead, the budget, unfortunately looking back, it was really nonexistent.

Bobbi Rebell:
So where did you get the money from, the negative $30,000? Was it borrowed, were you putting it on credit cards?

Daniel Levine:
Yeah, so that was coming from our personal capital. Steven and I, we certainly didn't have $30,000 to blow away, but we were fortunate to have some savings, and we're very thankful for the support of our significant others, who saw that big bill come in at the end of the day and say that they had faith in us to really build something fantastic. And the only reason that we were able to swallow such a hit in our first year, was that we had a long term view. There's at least one component of that long term view, if not two, that were important to informing our decisions.

Daniel Levine:
One was, we knew we wanted to go larger than 60 or 75 people, we always thought that we'd be in the 300 to 400 person range. Knowing that, we also knew that our fixed costs were high, and our variable costs were quite low. So that actually was a huge point of leverage for us to look towards in future years, knowing that if we were able to focus on growing our membership and attendee base, that would end up covering our fixed costs, and since our variable costs are quite low, it wouldn't be linear and proportional, such that a 60 person conference would see us lose a similar amount of money as we would see in a 400 person conference. We always knew that if we grew enough, in future years we would be able to cover that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So what did you do then in year two, and what is the lesson for our listeners?

Daniel Levine:
Yeah, so two key things. One was, stay on the trajectory that we were on with our original vision. So we had to have faith in the fact, and quite honestly we could look to the spreadsheets to prove it, but we had faith in the fact that if we grew from 60 or 70 to 285, which is what we were in our second year, we would exceed those fixed costs-

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is phenomenal growth, by the way, that's amazing.

Daniel Levine:
It was. And that was something that we really didn't expect, but because we made that huge investment in the first year and put on a fantastic program, what happened on the Sunday when we came back into the city and got cell phone reception again, is our emails were filled, not just with responses from attendees, but from friends and friends of attendees who saw them tweeting and Instagraming about it, and saying, "How do I get an invite? How do I get involved?" So we were able to leverage a really amazing product into a very big growth year into our second year. So that was a very large component of being able to recoup things in our second year. But the other big factor was, we need more revenue streams. Because we knew we were going to grow, we knew we could also go after revenue streams at 285 that we couldn't go after at 60 or 70 people.

Daniel Levine:
So, for example, sponsorship, that was a brand new door that opened for us, and even though 285 is, let's say relatively small in the conference business, where you might have conferences with 10,000 or 20,000 people, we could now go to major brands and major companies and say, "We have 285 highly curated people that are industry leaders, top entrepreneurs, top individuals, we are going to give you an opportunity to do very deep and impactful experiential marketing activations with them, and as a result, these brands saw a lot of value and in turn sponsorship dollars started coming in, which supplemented the revenue that we were receiving through ticket sales.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I think that's an important lesson for our listeners, that you weren't just taking a check from anyone. Once you were in year two you were able to have that history of the content that people wanted, and the experience that people wanted, and you could select and curate, as you say, the 285 people. So it wasn't just any 285 people, it was people that really had value to the potential sponsors.

Daniel Levine:
Precisely, and that's magnetized quite a bit over the years, and we've really seen an exponential growth in the inbound requests to join us. Whereas in our first year, we were going out and selecting, each of us, 30 or so people from our networks to really beg to come up and experience this with us. We're now going to receive over 4000 applications from people all over the world to be one of 400 people to come and join us this September.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well that's amazing, congratulations. I want to move from there to our everyday money tip, because that also has to do with something that you do that other people can emulate, that was at first a misstep, and then you found the right way to do it and it's working for you.

Steven Pulver:
At the start of this new year, 2018, we said we would start doing dinners. So we basically hand selected both current attendees, who are attending for the first time this September in 2018, alumni, other people in the community that we wanted to join us, and we'd have dinners, and we would invite people to nice restaurants, certainly not over the top fancy restaurants, but nice restaurants here in Toronto, and we did a few in Boston, and Chicago, and other places. And we would basically bring people together for a night of eating and drinking, and just a good time connecting people.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's expensive though.

Steven Pulver:
Yeah. So we found out very quickly that that's very expensive, and that was built into our budget. We knew from the beginning we'd spend maybe $2000 at dinner, and we had built that in that we were going to do a few of these. So we'd earmarked that and we knew we were going to do it, but after a few dinners we realized that this was getting expensive, despite us being ready for that expense, but it wasn't really us. We loved the fact that we were connecting with people and having great meals and great conversation, but at one point Daniel actually turned to me and said, "Why don't we just do a few barbecues? Do you think maybe we could do it at your house?" And I said, "Absolutely we can so that."

Steven Pulver:
Next thing you know we got the barbecue all ready and went to our favorite butcher shop and got burgers, and basically created a barbecue that I'm actually staring at in my living room right now, we're about to host a barbecue in a hour or so from now, and we said, "We can do barbecues. We can so five or six of these a month, at a cost of maybe $200 a barbecue, max, and bring amazing people together and have the flexibility to not spend a lot of money, but actually get way more bang for our buck."

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's something a lot of people should take to heart, because we sometimes get so busy trying to impress other people, and in fact it's often more impressive to bring someone to your home. Certainly it creates a different kind of bond, a more special and more personal bond, and it is more budget friendly.

Steven Pulver:
Right, and I think it really does go to our core too, right? As both individuals and as a business where we want to connect with people in this kind of way, as opposed to some hoity-toity kind of restaurant that is just fundamental not us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So it is on brand, as they say, and speaking of that, you've got conference number four this September.

Daniel Levine:
Yeah, we now have a hard cap at 400 attendees, particularly because for us community and authentic relationship is super important to us. We're going to have incredible folks like Jordan Harbinger, from The Jordan Harbinger Show, and Jason Calicanis, who is one of the most world renowned Angel investors, coming and joining us for the weekend. Disconnecting from technology up at summer camp, sitting around the fire pit, sharing stories about business and growth and leadership, and going water skiing and rock climbing while we're at it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sounds amazing. Alright, where can people find out more, if you even have any spots, or get on the wait list for next year?

Steven Pulver:
So, we have just opened up our final 50 application spots, those are now officially open for application, so there is still room available to apply, and I would encourage any of your amazing listeners to visit firesideconf, C-O-N-F, .com, as in conference. We are always there as well, you'll see a little chat bubble, you can say hi to us and ask us any questions, or you can feel free to apply and just let us know that you're coming from this podcast and you'll immediately jump to the top of the line.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you both.

Daniel Levine:
Our pleasure, thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so many lessons here. Financial grownup tip number one; let's start with the guys everyday money tip, because that hits close to home. Don't assume you have to spend a ton of money to impress wealthy and successful people. The thing is, fancy people aren't impressed with fancy. There's a scene in a new show called Succession that I've been watching, where a character is trying to impress his future father-in-law, who is very wealthy. So he spends a crazy amount of money on a watch, but when he gives it to the man as a gift, he's trying to impress him remember, the fact is he is barely acknowledged, and in fact, the very wealthy future father-in-law later gives it away without much of a thought. Watching it was pretty sad, unfortunately there is some reality to that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Rich people don't need another fancy meal. Once Steven and Daniel realized this and started hosting barbecues at their own homes, they had a much better time connecting with the people that they wanted to impress. I mean, the conference is at a camp, that's who they are. They're real, they're down to earth, and they want to connect to their people in that way. It's refreshing. Not everything has to be in a five star hotel or restaurant.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Well, the fireside conference lost about £30,000 the first year because it was self-financed. The founders remained in control and did not face pressure from outside investors. Early stage businesses that can avoid taking outside investors retain control, something Daniel and Steven seems very happy about.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you enjoyed the show, tell a friend, or share on social media. On Twitter, I am @BobbiRebell, on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook @BobbiRebell, and please subscribe if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes. Thank you to Steven and Daniel for your candor and openness about the challenges and rewards of starting such an ambitious conference. I'm looking forward to watching The Fireside Conference continue to grow. So thank you gentlemen for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Perez Hilton pioneered blogging as a profession, starting with his first $5 payday from Google Adsense. The once-bankrupt Hilton has built a multi-media business on that foundation, moving into YouTube, television and his latest venture, a guest stint at Chippendales in Vegas. 

In Perez’ money story you will learn:

-How Perez first earned money as a blogger, and the size of his first payment

-How he promoted his wesite perezhilton.com when it first started, well before social media existed

-How he realized he could make money blogging

-The big life failure that happened that led to his ability to focus on and monetize his blog

-The turning point in his career as a blogger when he was able to help his family

-What Perez tells his kids about his job

-Perez’s daily schedule and how he maintains productivity

-Why Perez wakes up at 5:51 every morning

-What was Perez’s biggest payday, and how much he has made in one day

-Why he is so excited talking about Lady Gaga!!

In Perez’s money lesson you will learn:

-The big warning he has to new business owners about the pace of growth

-Why he warns startup founders not to invest all their own money in their business when they can get investors

In Perez’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to negotiate better rates with the people that you have been doing business with for years

-How much you can reasonably expect them to discount services

-How to leverage your social media following to get discounts on products

In my take you will learn:

-Why it is important to note that Perez Hilton wakes up everyday at 5:51 am

-The significance of his regular, reliable schedule, especially as an entrepreneur and a parent

-How he is putting time management Laura Vanderkam’s strategies to work. 

-The importance of building out a brand in an intentional and focused way

-How Perez is integrating new platforms to expand his audience from his core platform

-The video on Perez’s personal youtube channel that I am personally completely fascinated by and why. 

Perez and Bobbi also talk about:

-How he has had to re-think his finances since having three kids

-Why Perez believes in diversifying financial assets, but also focuses on real estate

-The kinds of real estate Perez believes will be the best investments and why

-Where Perez is invested right now

Episode Links:

Check out Perez’s block perezhilton.com

Subscribe to Perez’ youtube channels

His personal channel The Perez Hilton

His regular content channel Perez Hilton

Here is more info about Perez’s Chippendales show in Las Vegas!

You may also be interested in Time Management expert Laura Vanderkam’s interview. You can listen to it at bobbirebell.com/podcast/lauravanderkam

 

Follow Perez!

On Twitter: https://twitter.com/PerezHilton

On Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/perezhilton

On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ThePerezHilton/

 

Listen to Perez’s podcast with Chris Booker:  http://perezhiltonpodcast.com/

Want to learn more about Perez? Check out his interview with Michael Dinich

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Transcription

Perez Hilton:
I'll get anywhere from $25,000 - $50,000 a night for two hours just to show up and promote the club. And I remember one event it was 4th of July, I was the headliner. I decided, you know what I want to have a special guest, so my special guest was Lady Gaga billed underneath me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what, being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. That was gossip blogging pioneer Perez Hilton dishing on some of his own finances and getting very candid about how much and how little other headliners really make. Perez has talked in public pretty candidly about some of his financial let's say adventures, including declaring bankruptcy and spending several hundred thousand dollars on surrogacy for his three kids. Go to his YouTube channel The Perez Hilton to hear more about that. His gossip YouTube channel is Perez Hilton, but I wanted to know more. After all, love him or hate him the guy started making money from blogging before it was a thing. And if you look at some of the ways we use social media now, like even the doodling people do on pictures and all that stuff he was doing it way ahead of us. He's made mistakes, which we talk about, but now that he's gotten older and wiser with three kids and a team that works with him, which includes by the way his mom, and his sister Perez Hilton is all about being a financial grownup. Here is Perez Hilton.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Perez Hilton you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Perez Hilton:
Hello, I try to be. Actually I don't even try, I am. It takes work.

Bobbi Rebell:
You very much are. Oh, come on. Yeah anyone who watches you have two YouTube channels, you have your fun gossipy one and then you have your also fun personal one. And people that watch that they know you talk about your bankruptcy, you talk about spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on surrogacy and the financial implications of that. So you are definitely, you're a grownup Perez.

Perez Hilton:
Well not even that, you know last year at the beginning of 2017 when I knew I was having a third child and that was coming it was a huge push for me to completely re haul my financial life. Meaning, overtly looking at every possible way to spend less and make more. And shorter term goals are definitely to diversify, it's a key word especially given how everything changes so quickly in entertainment, and just the world. For me though, and I may have still been at this before but I'm still trying to make it happen. And I wish I would have heard this before, I wish I would have made it a priority younger, I really want to get into real estate. Like some people want to play the stock market, some people want to invest in startups, some people want to start new businesses, some people want to let their money sit in a savings account, I want to go old school and own land. Own property. Not commercial property, I specifically want to own like a duplex or a triplex or four plex because I think that, that will only go up and it will only win.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you keep your assets now? Do you own your home? Do you have some stocks? Are you diversified? Because if you do everything in real estate you're not diversified and we just heard you want to be diversified.

Perez Hilton:
Yeah, no I mean I have a retirement account and I have different thing for my kid's college. I'm making all of the smart moves but instead of going heavier in the stock market, which I was advised to ... I did not listen to that advice and I'm going to go more into real estate. If I keep most of my money in real estate I don't care. I don't mind.

Bobbi Rebell:
We talked before we started taping about the first time you were able to actually monetize blogging, because you were basically the first. You were blogging before there was social media. You were blogging you were just trying to promote it on something called Friendster, which most of my listeners probably never even heard of. When did you realize you could monetize this and what was the first memory you have of receiving money for blogging?

Perez Hilton:
Well I didn't make any money for the first year plus. It was really just a hobby. Thankfully I ended up getting fired from a job that I had during that first year of blogging, which I credit to my website becoming successful. Because as a result of getting fired during that first year I was able to collect unemployment. So I didn't have to worry about feeding myself and having enough to pay rent. Thank God that happened. Sometimes a negative really is a positive. So, when I finally started making money to pay rent ...

Bobbi Rebell:
So a lot of bloggers today they make money from ads, from affiliate links, things like that. How was the first way that you made money?

Perez Hilton:
The first way that I made money, of course Google Ad Sense, was probably less than $5 but I was like, "Wow this is something exciting."

Bobbi Rebell:
$5 for something you were doing as just a fun little side thing is money, right?

Perez Hilton:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a pivotal moment where you realized, "This is actually my ..." It's not your whole career because you do a lot more, you first of all you went to NYU, you studied acting you did a lot and you do a lot. This doesn't just come from nowhere, and I think you make it look easy but it's not as easy as you make it look. But when did you realize that this in terms of your general identity was going to be it and that there was a way to monetize this? I mean reports are you've made many millions.

Perez Hilton:
I would say that by 2007 things got to a point where I was able to and I needed to get help. And I was able to help my family by doing so. I hired my mom and my sister with me and really made it a family operation. So, I moved them from Miami to Los Angeles and they still work with me today.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And how do you think you'll explain to your kids how you earn a living? Or will it just be kind of organic as they grow up?

Perez Hilton:
Well they already understand who Perez Hilton is. They've seen me on TV many times, the many different things I've done. They've been on TV with me. Last year I did a show for the Food Network called Worst Cooks in America Celebrity Edition, which I ended up winning by the way. I was the best of the worst. They got to be part of the show and they watched it every week with me. I do a lot of talking head commentary whenever I'm on like The Talk, or The Real, or local news here in LA. My mom will always record it and make sure my kids see it. Plus I make all my YouTube videos, they're in the background hearing daddy work and seeing me work as well on my laptop on my website. So they definitely have an understanding. They know I work so hard.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well tell me about that. Do you have a schedule or do you just keep going until it gets done? How does it work?

Perez Hilton:
I just keep going until it gets done, but I wake up at 5:51 every morning. I literally start working before I even get out of bed, before I even pickup my laptop I'm able to get some work done on my phone on Instagram. It's like you have to be doing everything everywhere. And I'll work, work, work. Then I'll take my kids to school, then I'll go to gym. Then I'll come back, catch up on work, do more work. Then I'll usually have a meeting or a filming or something in the afternoon. Come back home, catch up on work, spend early evening in dad mode. Put my kids to bed after getting them their shower and all that jazz, read their nightly book. And then get more work done, catch up on emails, and then usually get to bed like 11:30 maybe. I still love what I do, 14 years later. And I'm filled with so much gratitude that I am continuing to have fun and entertain people, and get new followers through different ways. Yeah, like even in a couple of days I'm heading to Las Vegas. I'm going to be doing the Chip 'n Dale show there.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so wild.

Perez Hilton:
That's so exciting. I'm going to be the special celebrity host of Chip 'n Dales.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you remember your biggest payday? What can you tell us about it and most of all how it made you feel?

Perez Hilton:
I remember like 2006 - 2012 before the rise of the DJ, which is where Vegas is now. It's all about the big name DJ's. You used to have a ton of celebrities hosting club nights in Vegas. And they would just throw ridiculous amounts of money my way and everybody's way. Now you'll have celebrities host Vegas, but because I know the market so well now, and I have so many friends that work in nightlife they're paying for the Vanderpump Rule for a housewife or whomever, five maybe $10,000. If you're a celebrity like Drake or somebody of that stature they'll make tons of money, but TV personalities five to $10,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
So let me ask you, how much would you make in those days in Vegas? And what was it like?

Perez Hilton:
Yeah. Well it depends on the venue, and the time of year, and a whole bunch of variables but I would say I would get anywhere from $25,000 - $50,000 a night for two hours just to show up and promote the club. And I remember one event I had back in 2008 it was 4th of July weekend, and I was the headliner. I decided, you know what I want to have a special guest. So my special guest was Lady Gaga billed underneath me.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are the lessons, the business lessons that you've learned from going from making $5 from Google Ad Sense, to Vegas at $50,000 doing DJ stuff, to now where you've got this multi-media empire that you are growing and building to invest in real estate as we know it for your kids?

Perez Hilton:
One advice I would give somebody is don't grow too much too quickly, which is a big mistake that many companies make. I would also say ... and a lot of this is just my experience, my advice, it probably maybe goes against what traditional business people might say. I would also say if you start making a lot of money on your business do not invest it back into your business or invest some but not a lot. Ideally to grow you can grow with other people's money. That's the goal.

Bobbi Rebell:
No, that's something a lot of people do. They leverage other people's money. Maybe put some of your own skin in the game, but it's also important to have some money set aside personally for you.

Perez Hilton:
Absofreakinglutely. Yep.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. All right Perez, I don't want to keep you too long. Give me an everyday money tip.

Perez Hilton:
One simple thing people that you do business with regularly, maybe your pool cleaner, or trainer at the gym, or for me I get my meals delivered from this one company. So I reached out to a lot of these people I've been very loyal to for a long time and I'm like, "Can we work anything out? Can you charge me less if I promote more?" Even if you don't have a large social media following, if you've been loyal to a company for a long time and been paying them they'll probably say, "Sure we can give you five percent off, 10% off." Any savings anywhere is good.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. All right, where can we support you? You're heading to Vegas, I just watched your video today, you're packing everyone up. Tell us about that and everything else that you want us to be paying attention to.

Perez Hilton:
Well I am a busy dude, yeah I'm going to Vegas. I'll be staring in the Chip 'n Dales show at the Rio from July 26th through Labor Day Sunday. I've got two YouTube channels, The Perez Hilton for everything family and then Perez Hilton for everything pop culture. Of course my website. And then I've got a podcast, The Perez Hilton podcast with Chris Booker where we talk everything pop culture.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is an empire. Congratulations on it all. Thank you for doing this.

Perez Hilton:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Perez is a lot of fun my friends, and he kind of makes it look easy if you watch his content. But let's look at what is really going on with this business, and it is business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one, note that Perez casually mentions that he always wakes up at 5:51 in the morning, and that he does work before his kids get up. Getting up early is a common thread of successful self starter entrepreneur, in fact according to time management expert Laura Vanderkam who was a recent guest on this podcast the vast majority of successful executives wake up before 6:00 am on weekdays. So, go set your alarm clock and try it out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, I love that Perez is always trying new things, but at the same time they are things that make sense with the brand that he has created. Perez still has his blog for sure and has expanded to different vertices, but he also knows that YouTube is very important to his audience as well. And so, he is growing there. One channel that extends his traditional gossip content, but he also now wants his audience to know him as a person. And he does very candid personal videos including a strangely amazing video by the way of how he brushes his teeth and keeps them so white. Watch it, you'll find yourself watching till the end, it's mesmerizing. Silly but mesmerizing. And now he's starting the Chip 'n Dales thing in Las Vegas, so this man is fearless but it is all on brand and all designed to appeal to his audience. Perez is consistent with his content and keeps his audience engaged.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you enjoyed this show please tell a friend. The best way for us to grow and keep bringing you these great stories is by sharing. You are busy but if you have time please leave a review and hit subscribe, and keep in touch on social media. We love it when you DM us on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and on Facebook at Bobbi Rebell. And a big thanks to Perez Hilton who's having a great time in his very grownup life, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK Media Production.

Jane King caved in to pressure to buy an apartment with her first son on the way, but soon realized going against her gut created a lot of financial indigestion. Plus tips on how to make sure you get your bills paid on time. 

In Jane’s money story you will learn:

-Why Jane decided to buy real estate, against her gut instinct, right when her son was born

-The key consideration that Jane and her husband overlooked when buying property in that location

-The indication in the economic news stories she was reporting that was a red flag to Jane that they were headed for real estate disasters

-How falling interest rates actually created a challenge for Jane and her family

-Why Jane had to move out of the first property

In Jane’s money lesson you will learn:

-How not trusting your gut can cost you a lot of money

-How to apply that theory not just to real estate but also to buying a stock any decision

-Our instincts are often stronger than we think

In Jane’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Why Jane does all of her bill paying on Saturday

-How that creates a checks and balances system for her

-How we can apply this kind of system to our own lives

In My Take you will learn

-The importance of getting out of big mistakes before they become even worse, even if it is expensive

-How Jane leveraged a layoff into a successful business venture

We also talk about:

-How Jane took a business that was folding at her employer, and created her own entrepreneurial venture, LilaMax media. 

-Jane’s podcast about kids and money “KaChing with Jane King”

-About my side-hustle filling in for Jane doing local news updates  live from the Nasdaq MarketSite that are seen all over the United States

Episode Links

Learn more about Jane King and LilaMax media at lilamaxmedia.com

Learn more about Jane’s podcast KaChing with Jane King at https://kachingpodcast.com/

 

Follow Jane!

Twitter https://twitter.com/MarketJane

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/marketjane/

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/jane.king.560

---

Transcription

Jane King:
I wish I would have just trust my instinct at the time because I feel like I knew, gut, what was going on with the housing market. I don't think I understood just how deep the problems were.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be A Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this!

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone! Today's episode features a friend I've known for more than a decade and learned a lot from and I know that you will as well. Jane King is a familiar face to so many of you because she's been anchoring local news business updates for years. First, on CNN, then on Bloomberg, and now with her entrepreneurial venture, LilaMax Media. Named after her two kids, Lila and Max.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even though her official money story has to do with a real estate flop, pay close attention to the extra story she casually slips in about launching her content syndication company, LilaMax. Previously referred to, which continues to grow at a time when so many bigger content companies are struggling. She makes it seems like no big deal, but I was there, and this Mompreneur is holing her own against some heavy competition. Here is Jane King.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jane King! You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jane King:
Great to be here, Bobbi, and I really loved hearing your podcast over the weekend. It's great advice out there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, thank you, and I love your podcast, “KaChing With Jane King” and all of your entrepreneurial ventures. Tell us a little bit about that.

Jane King:
Well, right now I run a company called LilaMax Media. I'll just give you a little history of how this came to be. So, I worked for CNN. I worked for Bloomberg and then the division that I worked for at Bloomberg, in 2013, they decided to shut that down at the end of the year. So, they gave us about a six weeks notice and another guy on my time and I decided just to take it on. We started this company LilaMax Media.

Jane King:
We do broadcast of the NASDAQ Monday through Friday for local TV stations around the country and try to keep up everybody on this very interesting business news atmosphere that we have lately. Oh, my goodness!

Bobbi Rebell:
And, many of my listeners, I'm sure see you on their local morning news, so we love that.

Jane King:
Right. And, I have some great fill ins, like you!

Bobbi Rebell:
I do.

Jane King:
Good help.

Bobbi Rebell:
I do help you out. I love doing it. But, let's talk about your money story, because it has to do with something near and dear to my heart, because I have had a lot of financial security come my way because of real estate investments. You made a big real estate purchase. We were actually all pregnant together, us and a bunch of friends.

Jane King:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
We had our babies all at the same time back in 2007 and we all bought real estate at that time. But, your story is a little bit different from the standard run of the mill story. Tell us what happened.

Jane King:
Well, I got caught up in that whole disaster of what we lived in 2008 and 2009. So, I was working as a financial reporter at the time and I just had this feeling that the housing market was over valued. I, you know, I had even had discussions with people. I'm like, come on, the average house is $250,000. But, the average American is only making like 45 and nothing just added up. So, I just ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, so logically, you went to buy a house. A home.

Jane King:
Well, so here's how this all came about. So, we had a friend who was moving and he said “Hey, how would you like to buy our apartment?” And, I was like “Oh, I really don't want to do that.” He was like “Oh, we don't have to pay commissions.” I was pregnant at the time as you mentioned. I thought “Well, gosh, it wouldn't be good for the child to have a house instead of a rental, for some reason. Even though, it kind of makes no sense.” Our accountant weighed in. Said the tax write offs were great so, we bought a home. Let's see. We closed on that in March or May of 2007, and ...

Bobbi Rebell:
So, right before Max was born?

Jane King:
Right before Max was born and at almost the exact peak of the housing market. When we closed on the home, I think they were around, just under seven percent. Like, six and a half or six point seven.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which, sounds really high right now.

Jane King:
Sounds high right now, but this was 2007. They went all the way down to three something and we just could not take advantage of that because the home values just ... the value of the appraisals were coming in too low. So ...

Bobbi Rebell:
So, your equity was not high enough to refinance?

Jane King:
That's right. So, third times a charm. Finally got that done, and of course we paid all the fees and everything in the process. But ...

Bobbi Rebell:
So, so much for saving so much on the commission.

Jane King:
So much for saving on the commission. You know, I don't know. You know, it was a co-op. We had trouble selling it because the co-op board was just ... that's another thing. I would never buy in a co-op again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, let's go back to the story. So, okay, you get into the apartment. First of all, you wanted to refinance just because the rates were going lower, right?

Jane King:
Oh yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jane King:
We did, but it was, you know, a couple thousand dollars a month difference.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh wow. So, your payments were high, number one. So, number two, then you're being rejected from refinancing because your equity relative to the value of the home was not a good enough ratio.

Jane King:
That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:
And then, number three, why did you want to sell? Why not, once you were able to refinance, why not just hang there?

Jane King:
Well, because it's a co-op and you can't rent it out for more than two years, so another one of those co-op rules that you have to deal with in New York City. So, we could only rent it out for two years and then we had to finally sell it. Because, we had moved to a different neighborhood and we weren't really ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so why did you move then, I guess is the question. Because, you bought it in 2007, why not just live there?

Jane King:
Two things. So, one was the apartment was up by Columbia University and they were taking over the building where my husband had a business. So, we needed to find a new location for the business, and the timing of that was right at the time when my son was entering Kindergarten and the schools in that area, of course, I was pregnant at the time. I didn't even think about to ask about the schools, but the schools in that area were not good schools. So, we moved to a better district where the schools were better. My husband set up a business and, you know in the end, everything's better. But, it's just I don't know. I wish I would have just trust my instinct at the time because I feel like I knew, gut, what was going on with the housing market. I don't think I understood just how deep the problems were, but you just got to trust your gut. We know more than we think we do.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from your story?

Jane King:
Well, I would think that if you're somewhat informed about finances, trust your gut. Don't let somebody else talk you into something. Whether, it's buying an apartment or buying a stock or buying something else, you know, whatever. I would just trust your gut and really think about it, because I do think we know more instinctively than we think we do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your every day money tip. Because, this is very basic and yet, sort of brilliant because it probably works. I mean, if it does work for you, I think it would work for a lot of our listeners.

Jane King:
Well, it's so easy. Anybody can do this. I pay all my bills on Saturday morning. It helps me keep all of my accounts in check. I know what the balances are. Nothing is ever paid late. So, I don't have any of the late fees or anything like that. I just set them down. It's part of my morning. My Saturday morning routine along with doing the laundry and doing the dishes, its I sit down and pay the bills. And, it's so easy and I think it's a great tip and anybody can do it. You can start this Saturday!

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes! Or, it can be any day of the week. The point is that you have an appointment with yourself to focus on your finances.

Jane King:
That's right. Saturday morning works well for me. Whatever day happens to work with you is good. It's just I'm a creature of routine and I find that it helps me lead a more organized life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. Alright, tell us more about what's going on with your podcast KaChing.

Jane King:
Okay. KaChing with Jane King. It's all about kids and money. It really kind of comes from the financial crisis, because I felt like people were doing irresponsible things because they didn't know. They didn't know that housing doesn't go up forever or that you can't spend more than you earn. You know, things like this, so I really decry the lack of financial education in our schools and in our society. So, I started this little podcast and we have some great guests on there. Authors, and people who come and they talk about, you know, just helping to raise kids so they're financially responsible. KaChing with Jane King.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright everyone. Check it out. Thank you so much Jane, you're the best!

Jane King:
Thank you Bobbi! Great to see you!

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, there's a lot to take from Jane's story. The first thing though, that strikes me is this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: If you make a real estate mistake. Admit it and get out. Jane did that right. Holding on to something you bought. Just because you bought it, is not going to fix the problem. And yes, you could lose money, but holding on, you could lose even more money. You don't know. So, staying put is just going to add to the pain. When we drill down the key problem with the apartment, was that the schools weren't a fit for Jane's kids. The other issue was that her husband's business was losing its lease. So, by paying the price, and it was expensive, it was painful for her. But, admitting the mistake, her family was able to move to one of, if not, the best public school districts in the entire city. Her husband set up a new business, in a hot neighborhood, with great clientele, and they moved on and they prospered. Digging in their heels and hoping things would just get better would have been a mistake.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's talk about Jane's business, LilaMax Media, which produces content primarily from the NASDAQ market site. So, this is the bonus story that I mentioned at the top. Her previous employer, Bloomberg, was shutting down that line of business. She and her partner, Bob Morris, figured out a way to make the economics work with lower overhead as a smaller company. So, instead of being out of work, Jane actually became the co-founder of a business that is going strong more than four years later.

Bobbi Rebell:
She took a terrible situation and made it into an opportunity of a lifetime and yes, you can see me filling in for Jane, so DM me and say “hi” if you see me on your local news in the early hours of the morning. If you have not already hit that subscribe button, so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and be in touch. On Twitter, I am @BobbiRebell. On Instagram @BobbiRebell1. On Facebook @BobbiRebell and as I said, DM me. I love hearing your feedback on the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jane had to make some very Grownup decisions as a consequence of that against the gut real estate decision, but she did it. And, it's a great lesson. Trust your gut, and if you find yourself having made the wrong decision, get the heck out. So, thanks Jane for helping us get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Announcer:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

High Fiving Dollars' Sarah Li Cain had a contract that said her company had to pay her medical costs, but when she got pregnant, she and her husband had to come up with a strategic plan to actually collect the cash they were owed. Plus her tips on how to make sure you get the luxuries you want in life, without feeling nickel and dime’d

In Sarah’s money story you will learn:

-The challenge Sarah faced when pregnant as a teacher in China

-How the healthcare system there required employees to pay upfront, and then fight to get re-imbursed

-The financial risk that created for Sarah and her colleagues

-How careful documentation helped to get her money back

-The technique Sarah used to negotiate with her employer and her boss for both her healthcare needs and those of her colleagues

In Sarah’s money lesson you will learn:

-That is is essential to read your contract when you take a job, and not assume it will provide things, even if it is the law.

-The importance of standing your ground when you are entitled to something. 

In Sarah’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Why she is willing to pay more for homes that have the amenities that are important to her and her family

-The importance of building in value-add activities and facilities into your home or community, so you don’t have to spend extra cash to have services and other things that you value but might not pay for on an individual basis. 

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of documentation especially when you need to be re-imbursed by an employer

-The tools and apps I personally use for document management and scanning

-My take on lifestyle amenities where you live

-The crazy and outrageous amenities that may not be worth paying for in many cases

Episode Links

Learn more about Sarah at https://highfivingdollars.com/

Listen to her podcast with Garrett Philbin (from Be Awesome not Broke) Beyond the Dollar! https://highfivingdollars.com/podcast/

Follow Sarah Li Cain!

Twitter: @sarahlicain

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/highfivingdollars

Pinterest https://www.pinterest.com/sarahlicain/

 

The tools I use to  store and track documents are

Dropbox dropbox.com

 

Evernote evernote.com

The App I use to scan documents is Jotnot https://www.jotnot.com/

Here’s a fun article from curbed.com on The Most outrageous amenities in NYC apartments https://ny.curbed.com/2017/12/18/16743830/nyc-outrageous-apartment-amenities-2017

Here is one from Elledecor.com on over the top amenities

https://www.elledecor.com/life-culture/fun-at-home/g14031044/over-the-top-amenities-nyc/

And here is one from Streeteasy.com on What Building Amenities to New Yorkers Want Most?

https://streeteasy.com/blog/nyc-building-amenities-top-10-most-popular/

---

Transcription

Sarah Li Cain:
I don't think they really thought it through if someone were to get pregnant because I chose to go with someone who was able to speak English because I don't speak Chinese and so they were pretty expensive. I think I racked up a total about $25,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. That was holistic money coach Sarah Li Cain of the blog High Fiving Dollars and the podcast Beyond the Dollar, taking a stroll down memory lane to a financial experience she'd probably rather forget. But she got through it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone and thanks for taking the time to join us here at Financial Grownup. We keep the shows on the short side so you can squeeze it into your busy day. But if you have more time, or are commuting, they are also meant to be listened to a few at a time. So when you subscribe, make sure the settings are at auto download and you will get three episodes each week.

Bobbi Rebell:
Back to Sarah. Her story is truly a financial grownup one because it begins with the birth of her first child which is a big life transition in and of itself, without all the financial responsibilities that comes with it, and she had to deal with a lot of money headaches. Here is Sarah Li Cain.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sarah Li Cain, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Sarah Li Cain:
Thank you so much for having me Bobbi. I'm a big fan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh thank you, and I am a huge fan of yours ever since we met a couple of years ago actually at FinCon, which is a conference for content creators, because you were behind High Fiving Dollar and now the new Beyond the Dollar podcast. So congratulations on all of your success.

Sarah Li Cain:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are a holistic money coach. You also as I mentioned are a financial writer, and you are also someone who has worked all over the world, which brings us to the money story that you brought with you to share because it has to do with the time that you spent in China and something momentous that happened while you were there. Tell us.

Sarah Li Cain:
Yes, so actually spent a total about eight years in China. So before I was a writer and a money coach I was a elementary school teacher at a bunch of different international schools. My very last job, my husband and I found out that were pregnant. The interesting thing was in my contract the employer actually didn't pay for healthcare. So it's the employer legally has to provide you with healthcare, and so instead of actually giving us health insurance he had a little clause at the bottom of the contract that basically said we will reimburse 100% of any healthcare cost that you incur.

Bobbi Rebell:
That sounds really good.

Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah, it does, except if you don't have the money upfront and pay for that, then it makes it very difficult. And so for some of my coworkers-

Bobbi Rebell:
So you had to front the money?

Sarah Li Cain:
Yes. For some of my coworkers it was very difficult for them, number one, the ones who have children, they had to cover all their healthcare cost, and number two, I remember one of my coworkers had ... It wasn't major surgery but it was fairly big. She actually [inaudible 00:03:28] having to borrow money to cover that, until the employer was willing to basically reimburse it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait. Was it a situation where you would have to pay out of pocket and then basically fight to get reimbursed?

Sarah Li Cain:
Yes, exactly. So as long you had the receipt in theory they were going to pay you back. I don't think they really thought it through if someone were to get pregnant because healthcare is fairly cheap in China, but I chose to go with someone who was able to speak English because I don't speak Chinese and so they were pretty expensive. So I think I racked up a total about $25,000 American, including the birth, including the prenatal and postnatal care.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you had to forward that money, you had to pay that, and then try to get reimbursed?

Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah. One thing I did try to do was as the receipts payments, so every month when I'd have my prenatal appointments I would just sent, forward the receipt to my ... the owner of the school. Then the principal and I sat down and I said, "Listen, you know this is going to get really expensive. I'm going forward the boss or the owner a big, big bill, probably at least 10 grand after all of my prenatal appointments. He's going to have to be very careful because he's going to make sure, like, he's going to have that money and give it me." The principal and I actually worked together and figured out a way to approach the owner and how we were ... She was going to help me get that. The principal was going to help me get that money back.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was the school which is almost an independent school that did not have big financial resources, was that part of the issue why you were worried they wouldn't have the money?

Sarah Li Cain:
Part of it was the owner was new. I think he had taken over that school maybe for about a year, and number two, he's been, and this like anecdotal evidence, I haven't directly heard him say this but he's always mentioned about try to pay as little as possible for the foreign staff as he called us, and so I kind of knew that if I slapped him with this $25,000 bill that he'd probably pretty shocked and would try to find a way out of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what happened?

Sarah Li Cain:
I actually added up, I predicted all the cost for the birth and everything like that and I forwarded it to my principal. Then again the principal and I sat down and we basically said, "Okay, what's the best case scenario, what's the worst case, where can we meet in the middle with him." So we kind of came up with different ways to negotiate with him. The best case was he gives all that money back to me in one go. The second the best was if he paid in installments. And the worst case he refused.

Sarah Li Cain:
But I also said, "Hey, listen, I'm a great employee," and I actually calculated how many students that I brought into the school, so it kind of proved to him that like, hey, I'm helping you make money so therefore this little $25,000 expense wasn't that expensive in the grand scheme of things. What happened then was my principal then forwarded all of this information to the owner of the school and he actually agreed and was like, "Okay, I will pay all this back, I'll reimburse you as soon as you provide all the bills."

Bobbi Rebell:
And did they?

Sarah Li Cain:
Yes. So they did try to fight us a little bit. After my son was born my husband was the one to submit all the bills and so. Then they negotiated with him and said, "Well, we can't pay all this all at once. Is there some way we can just pay you back in increments?" So they did I think pay us the money back in about five installments but we did end up getting all the money back.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, that's great. But you used this to actually make broader changes.

Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah. The funny thing was I had no idea that my principal was trying to fight for everyone to get free health insurance. Again, the owner of the school had to legally provide this. She actually ended up using the large medical bill to say to the owner, was like, "Hey, listen, what if another one of your employees gets pregnant. That's like a huge cost," and then she actually presented him with different health insurance options in China and how it ended up being cheaper. And so because of what happened with me, the entire staff actually got free health insurance afterwards.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So how did you feel during this time? I mean you're pregnant, you're having to fight for all this stuff. What were your coworkers saying?

Sarah Li Cain:
It was really interesting. My coworkers didn't necessarily directly ask me about the money side of things because I think in their mind they're like, "Oh man, Sarah's really going to have to fight for this money because the owner is such a cheapskate," as they called him. I was really thankful because ... So my husband and I worked together, and so he really advocated for me when I couldn't, like when I was out on maternity leave and when I was just too tired to really say anything. So he would push me like, "No, listen, Sarah, you have to fight this," or he would go in himself and then talk to the principal which I found out later that he did, and say like, "Here, how can we negotiate all of this?" If it wasn't for his support, I probably wouldn't be able to keep pursuing the money.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?

Sarah Li Cain:
The lesson is number one, read your contract, and number two, stand your ground. If it says in your contract that you're supposed to get something, then fight for it because it's written down, it's not a verbal contract, it's a written contract, so definitely pursue it, and get as much support as you need in order to pursue it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back is there anything you would've done different yourself?

Sarah Li Cain:
No, not at all.

Bobbi Rebell:
And Sarah, that brings us to your everyday money tip which also kind of has to do with your health and wellness.

Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah. One of the things I really strive to do is that whenever my husband and I are renting a new place, or when we're looking for a new apartment, we always make sure the kind of amenities there are. We're always looking for somewhere with a gym, how easy it is to walk from let's say the supermarket or my son's preschool, if there's a swimming pool, and just anything else where we don't have to spend extra money. For example, an apartment that we just rented is actually a five minute walk to my son's preschool, it's a few minutes walk to a couple of supermarkets, it's actually closer to my husband's work, it's got a gym, it's got a swimming pool, it's got a playground for my son. So we're effectively saving thousands of dollars a year because now that I can walk with my son to preschool, I don't need a second car. I can just walk again to the supermarket when I need to. I'm saving money on membership fees, things like that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. All right, Sarah, tell us more about what you're up to. I know you have started season two of your podcast.

Sarah Li Cain:
Yeah. So Beyond the Dollar I co-host it with another money coach, Garrett Philbin. We're just having a lot of fun. We discuss a lot of issues that go literally beyond the dollar, just not practical finance tips, but more of the deeper how money really affects your well being. You can also find me in High Fiving Dollars. I talk a lot about my personal life there. If you have any questions, I love answering reader questions there as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Sarah.

Sarah Li Cain:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that Sarah and her husband paid it forward fighting for everyone else to have real health insurance even after they had won their own battle. Financial Grownup tip number one, whenever you know you're going to need to be reimbursed, as was the case with Sarah and her husband, document everything and make sure you have backups including electronic backups. I happen to use Evernote and Dropbox for storage, and I use an app called JotNot as a mobile scanner, and from that app I can upload to the Evernote and/or Dropbox accounts.

Bobbi Rebell:
Make sure you follow up on getting reimbursed, and on bills sometimes the way that the healthcare system is set up may not be as well-run as you would necessarily expect. If you want to learn more about the dangers of what can happen if you're not on top of these things, check out my interview with Chris Browning of the Popcorn Finance podcast. Just go to bobbirebell.com/podcast/chrisbrowning.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, let's talk about lifestyle amenities because I know Sarah's a big fan of them. She makes this a priority. There's an upside and there's a downside. If you have amenities built into your rent or your home cost, you don't have to worry that if money gets tight or you just have a lot of expenses coming up or you're feeling uneasy about your financial situation, you're not going to feel pressured to say take a break from the gym. On the other hand, they do add to your overhead in most cases and if you're not going to use certain amenities, you need to factor that in and be honest with yourself.

Bobbi Rebell:
For example, just about all of us can at least make the argument that we can make good use of a gym. We might blow it off in reality, but we can at least make the case. That might be worth paying for when you're looking for a new residence, especially if it's in a community or an apartment building that has a really nice one. But if you don't have young kids, something like a playground does not add value to your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Those are pretty mainstream amenities, but some buildings can even have quirky amenities that sound so cool like wine cellars, relaxation lounges, climbing walls, hydrotherapy circuits, bowling allies, pet spas, and of course dog training studio, something we all look for. They are designed to wow buyers and renters, but just because something looks super cool when you're checking out the residence, doesn't mean it's something that you're going to actually use. If they deliver value for you, that's great. But some are just gimmicky and can up the prices. By the way, if you want to read about some of the crazy things happening in the amenities business, I'm going to leave a few fun articles about hot new amenities in the show notes for you guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you have not already hit that Subscribe button so you don't miss any upcoming episodes, remember, the episodes are short, about 15 minutes, so if you want to listen for longer, there are three new episodes every week so you can easily binge on a bunch if you have a long commute or you're just running errands and you want a little more content.

Bobbi Rebell:
Be in touch. I am on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and on Facebook @bobbirebell, and of course DM me your feedback on the podcast. Thanks to Sarah Li Cain and her growing family for helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

 

Time management expert Laura Vanderkam on how she and her husband decided to pay it forward to free up time to create available time for career and business growth.  Plus behind the scenes info on how she wrote her latest bestseller “Off The Clock” and a sneak peak at her next project. 

In Laura’s money story you will learn:

-Why it has taken Laura so long to figure out the right childcare setup

-How she balances being a frugal person with the reality of her childcare needs

-The problems that emerged as her speaking and writing career began to gain more traction

-How working from home made her childcare issues more complicated

-The specific things she changed when she hired a new nanny

-Why she chose a certain schedule and the specific benefits that provided

-Specific examples of work situations where her new childcare set up allowed her to earn more money

 

In Laura’s money lesson you will learn:

-The reason Laura considers childcare an investment in your earning potential, even if you pay for it when you aren’t technically working

-The importance of going to what she called the “extra stuff’ like networking events and conferences

-Why you should sometimes pay for an extra half an hour of childcare, and what to do with that time

-The relevance of Serena Williams to the conversation and what we can learn from her recent experience missing a major milestone in her child’s life. 

In Laura’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Why handwritten notes are important in business

-How Laura has used them to increase her connection with friends and business associates

-How Laura uses that habit to connect on a personal level with her readers and fans. 

 

In My Take you will learn:

-How to use money to solve productivity challenges

-A specific way Harry Potter author JK Rowling used this strategy

-Apps and other options that can help you execute the same strategy as JK Rowling

-Why some people are late all the time

-How to not be late

We also talk about:

Laura’s new book “Off The Clock” and how she conducted the exclusive research

The importance of time perception

Laura’s Ted Talk and how we can integrate those lessons into time choices

Laura’s podcast with Sarah Hart  Unger “Best of Both Worlds” 

Her next project Juliet’s school of possibility which is a fable about Time Management

Episode Links

Learn more about Laura at her website LauraVanderkam.com

Check out her podcast “Best of Both Worlds” 

Get Laura’s book “Off The Clock!”

 

Follow Laura!

Twitter @lvanderkam

Facebook LauraVanderkamAuthor

Instagram lvanderkam

LinkedIn Laura Vanderkam

 

 

Apps for last minute discount hotels

hoteltonight.com

OneNight.com

Hotelquickly.com

 

 

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Transcription

Laura Vanderkam:
We had a lot of snow. We could see that this huge snow system was coming into Pennsylvania. My client out in Michigan who they have this big event booked around me said, "Well, could you come out early?" The idea of being a working mom of four kids who could like suddenly go 24 hours earlier to an event overnight even though my husband was also out of town, I could do it. I could just say yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of how to be a financial grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So that was time management expert and prolific writer, Laura Vanderkam. Her latest book is Off The Clock, which we're going to talk about. A special welcome to our new listeners and, of course, returning ones. As you guys know, we keep it short because I'm a big believer in delivering value for your time. You can always earn more money but time is priceless and we appreciate the time that you spend with us. So we aim for about 15 minutes but you can stack a few episodes together. We do three a week. So make it work for your life. Hit subscribe, put your settings to automatically download, so you're going to have each episode without having to do any work. Go for the easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about time management. So interesting behind the scenes fact ... financial grownup fact here. I came very prepared for this interview with Laura Vanderkam. I was ready to be super efficient and respectful of her time but, in the true spirit of her latest book, Off The Clock, she was not in a hurry at all and, in fact, she said she had all the time in the world. How does she do that? Listen to the interview and then make the time to read her book. The time spent will literally pay for itself. Here is Off The Clock author, Laura Vanderkam.

Bobbi Rebell:
Laura Vanderkam, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Laura Vanderkam:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your latest book. It's called, Off The Clock, Feel Less Busy While Getting More Done. I can't wait to see what your next book's going to be. Maybe I'll get a teaser out of you. What are you working on?

Laura Vanderkam:
Actually, my next book will be out in March 2019, and it's a time management staple, it's called, Juliet's School of Possibility. So, yeah, there you go.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.

Laura Vanderkam:
The commercial for the next one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, absolutely. But, in the meantime, once we finish all of your books, we also can listen to your podcast, Best of Both Worlds, which is with Sarah Hart Unger, and that's also one of my new obsessions.

Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah, we really do believe that work and family can work together, that people can succeed at both and love both. And so, that's what the podcast covers.

Bobbi Rebell:
And one thing that you guys discuss a lot beyond just time management, but time management as it pertains to kids and getting work done, and that brings us to your money story.

Laura Vanderkam:
Like many parents, it has taken me a long time to sort of figure out what the right childcare setup truly is. And, being a kind of frugal person, I didn't want to spend all that much. So it was always trying to get by on less than I probably needed for me and my husband, and you know, he travels and works long hours, and I was certainly starting to as my speaking career was starting to grow. And so, you know, it was figuring out, well, what kind of childcare do I need? And I'd always spend, you know, normal work hours, maybe eight to five. I mean, I worked from home, certainly I should be able to do that. But the problem is, we need like overnight coverage and we wouldn't have it because people would have other plans cause, hey, we're leaving at five. They'd have other things they were doing in the evening. You know, it was just difficult to make it work.

Laura Vanderkam:
So, when we were hiring a new nanny about two years ago, we decided that, well, we truly do need more hours. Let's go ahead and make the investment in doing it. And so, we hired somebody who's initial schedule was to work eight to eight, Monday through Thursday. And the upside of doing eight to eight, it's only 48 hours, right? So it's not excessive.

Bobbi Rebell:
So were you cutting out Fridays?

Laura Vanderkam:
Well, we had ... at the time there was another person working on Fridays for part-time. You know, that was the idea. It was like, you're going to have 60 hours of care, split it among two people because you don't burn one person out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, then, you also have a backup, right?

Laura Vanderkam:
We do have a backup. Right. Yeah. So you have one full-time, one part-time. So the upside of having the evenings, I could go to networking events, like even if my husband was working late. Or, if I needed to be somewhere, I wasn't racing back and apologizing for being late. We had the evening covered. We had an extra driver for school stuff, for activities.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cause you have four kids by the way.

Laura Vanderkam:
Cause I have four small children. But the real upside has turned out to be that, when you hire someone to work eight to eight, they tend not to book stuff in the evening. So then, arranging for them to stay overnight, and we also hired somebody who was willing to do that. It was basically, pay me overtime I'll do it. Meant that there wasn't always this scrambling thing because it was relatively easy to just get that extra hours in there. And so, yes, it's expensive to have a lot of childcare and to have the availability of overnight coverage, you know, paying overtime for that. But, you know, I really see moments where it paid off.

Laura Vanderkam:
This spring, for instance, I was traveling a lot. I mean, I was giving one or two speeches a week that required travel, we had a lot of snow. One day in early March we could see that this huge snow system was coming into Pennsylvania. My client out in Michigan, who, you know, they have this big event booked around me, said, "Well, could you come out early?" You know, the idea of being a working mom of four kids who could like suddenly go 24 hours earlier to an event overnight even though my husband was also out of town, I could do it. Like I could just say yes. And that's what it has been enabling me to get like bigger ticket speaking jobs, ones that are paying more than I certainly would've imagined I could've gotten five, six years ago. And I think it's because I feel like I know I can say yes.

Laura Vanderkam:
But, you know, it's really an investment in your earning potential. And, if you're always trying to get by on less childcare than you need, then you won't say yes to the extra stuff. You won't go to that networking opportunity. You won't go to that conference. You won't maybe stay late that one night when you know your boss is going to see it and really remember it because you're trying to race out. And, over the longterm, those things really do add up. So I really like to think of childcare more as an investment than an expense. And, if you can get your head around that idea, I think you'll really start feeling like a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners? How can they apply it to their lives?

Laura Vanderkam:
Well, I think, take an honest assessment of what amount of childcare you have and, if possibly increasing that by a little bit would make your life a lot easier, less stressful, or enable you to pursue professional opportunities that you haven't so far. So it could be maybe an investment in life satisfaction. Maybe pay the person for an extra half hour after you get home, so you don't immediately have to race into serving everyone, making dinner, while you also have kids jumping on you cause they haven't seen you all day. Maybe that person could start dinner while you deal with the kids, right, and have some time with them.

Laura Vanderkam:
Or maybe it's just that, you know, occasionally you'd like to get stuff done a little bit later instead of racing out to make a 5 p.m. daycare pickup. Maybe you can arrange for an evening sitter just like one day a week, right? And that person covers maybe five to eight, and you can get stuff done when the office is quiet, or people see you be there late, or you go to networking events. And, you know, then you've made this investment and it will probably pay off over time.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love that you point out those intangible things, like going to a networking event because sometimes people view that as social, but it's social, but it's really also an investment in your career to be out there with your peers. I know Serena Williams recently missed a big milestone because she was training and it can happen to any mom, no matter what. So, you can't let those hold you back from doing things that might benefit your career.

Laura Vanderkam:
SO I think this idea like rearranging your whole life to not miss anything, it's never going to happen. And, if you have more than one kid, you'll miss some stuff cause you're at the other kids stuff. And, you know, people adjust, they grow up, they learn the universe does not revolve them. It's all good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah, you know. So, it's worth doing a little bit extra sometimes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. And there are other ways to bond with people outside of your family, bond with people regarding work in your professional endeavors, and that brings us to your everyday money tip, which is just genius, and I got to experience myself.

Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah. Well, this doesn't seem like a money tip but it's in line with the idea of networking and building your network, and getting to know people, and establishing these relationships, which is, send handwritten notes. This doesn't seem like a money tip but I can tell you that people are far more inclined to like you when it seems that you have bothered to establish, like put a little effort into establishing a connection with them. It's also memorable because most people don't do it.

Laura Vanderkam:
So, when I sent you my book, I included a handwritten note thanking you for your interest in it, and for being willing to take your valuable time to read it. I had a thing going on my website that I was asking people to pre-order Off The Clock, and what people did, they gave me their mailing address so I could send them a signed bookplate that they could stick in the cover when it showed up from whatever online retailer that they pre-ordered it through. You know, I'm mailing them anyway, why not send them a handwritten note? So I sent a handwritten thank you note to everybody who pre-ordered and gave me their address. And this is, you know, a lot.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you made the time because it was important to you.

Laura Vanderkam:
Because it was important. So I kept reminding myself, as I was doing it ... my hand was cramping up. I'm like, you should be so grateful that these people are willing to spend money on a product of yours sight unseen. Those are your big fans you want to connect with them, and I do want to connect with them.

Bobbi Rebell:
I just want to take another minute to talk a little bit about Off The Clock. As we mentioned, I did read it on vacation. It was great. You talk about people expand time. That was one of my favorite themes in the book. Tell us more about that theory and how people can apply it to their lives, cause that to me was the most important takeaway from this book.

Laura Vanderkam:
So, for Off The Clock, I had 900 people with full-time jobs and families track their time for a day, and then I asked them questions about how they felt about their time. So I could give people scores based on their time perception. Like did they have high time perception scores? They felt time was abundant. Or low time perception scores. They felt time was scarce, stressful, all that stuff. Compare the schedules with people who felt like they had a lot of time, people who felt they had no time.

Laura Vanderkam:
People who felt like they had the most time also spent the most time actively engaged with family and friends. So they spent the leisure time that they did have nurturing their relationships, whereas people who had the lowest time perceptions scores tended to spend their time watching TV or on social media. You know, it's not that one group had more leisure time than the other. Everyone was busy. Everyone had full-time jobs, families, but people choose to spend the time that they do have discretionary choices over in different ways. And, apparently, spending time with family and friends makes us feel very off the clock.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. And that's, by the way, we didn't mention your Ted Talk, which is amazing. One of the things that you point out in your Ted Talk is that, instead of just fast forwarding through commercials to save time when watching TV, you could just watch less TV. So it's pretty straight forward.

Laura Vanderkam:
The problem with writing that time management, I've seen all these articles over the years of like how to find an extra hour in the day by shaving bits of time off every day activities, and stuff like Taebo, or forward through the commercials. Save eight minutes every half hour over two hours of watching TV, you find 32 minutes to exercise. Like, come on. You're watching TV for two hours, you already had 32 minutes to exercise. Let's not fool ourselves.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You called us all out. Tell us where people can find out more about you and all of your different ventures, podcasts, Ted Talk, books, newsletter, all of it.

Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah, come visit my website, lauravanderekam.com. That's just my name. You can learn more about my books including Off The Clock and the podcast, Best of Both Worlds. We'd love to have some of your listeners take some of the extra commutes that they're not listening to your wonderful podcast on, and come give it a listen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much Laura.

Laura Vanderkam:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. There were so many great takeaways from that and from the book, Off The Clock. I'm going to give you a couple more here and, of course, you can check out the book and get even more.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip number one. Money can solve productivity problems. One of my favorite examples in the book is when Laura talks about Harry Potter author, J.K. Rowling. She was writing her seventh book, [inaudible 00:12:41]. So, by this point she had financial resources to say the least. But she couldn't get any work done in her house because the window cleaner was there, and the kids were home, and the dogs were barking. And then J.K. Rowling says in this story, a light bulb went on. I can throw money at this problem. And you know what? She decamped to a hotel to finish the draft and it worked cause she was able to focus. Money solved the problem.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, not all of us think that we have the budget to do that. I've never done that and to me it does seem extreme on the surface. However, because of the new resources that we have and we're going to give you some ideas and apps that we have access to now, there are very reasonable hotel rooms available at the last minute in our own cities, and that is something we could potentially look into when we just need to get to a place where we can focus on getting our work done, especially when we're coming up against a big deadline. So some app examples are: Hotel Tonight, One Night, and Hotel Quickly. And you can find very cheap deals in your city very often using apps like these. I'll put the links in the show notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you don't have a budget, maybe you have a friend with a spare bedroom. Tell them what you're up to so they don't expect you to be social, but maybe you can use that. And, if it's just a few hours that you need, of course, you can go to a coffee shop. That's always available as a resource for many people. But another option, sometimes, is to just go to your local library and just hunker down in a quiet area there and get some work done.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip number two. Be a pessimist when deciding when to leave for important meetings or trips. Vanderkam discovered that people who are late, even though I think it's often inconsiderate or poor planning, really what it is, is they're optimists. They always remember the best scenario of getting to a place. So, if they're planning a trip that involves going to the airport, they might remember that it only took 15 minutes to get to the airport but, of course, what they don't remember is that was at, you know, 5 a.m. on a Sunday when no one else was going. Maybe this time they're going at 9 a.m. on a Monday morning and they don't factor in that it's going to take a lot longer. So, because they're not planning according to the worse case scenario, things go awry. So plan according to the worst case scenario and, you know what, maybe you'll get there early and you'll have extra time, and you can do something fun with that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to you for gifting this time to yourself to hopefully improve your life just a little thanks to the wonderful advice and wisdom from Laura Vanderkam. Please be in touch. Follow me on Twitter@bobbirebell, on Instagram@bobbirebell1, and on Facebook@bobbirebell, and DM me with your thoughts on the podcast. Laura Vanderkam is living a very financially grownup life. I got so much value from taking the time to read, Off The Clock, and I know you will too. So thank you Laura for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.