After a nasty split from his 11-year business partners at the Art of Charm podcast, Jordan Harbinger found himself putting his own networking lessons to work as he started a new business from scratch with the Jordan Harbinger show and the Advanced Human Dynamics  platform.

Jordan's money story:

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, so it was supposed to be an amicable split. I got sick of being the dating guy, because I'm pushing forty, and I'm married, and I'm in a healthy relationship, and I just wasn't interested in that anymore. And a lot of the shows that I was doing were interviews with athletes, and generals, and all these really high-profile people, and they were always shocked, like 'oh, this is what this podcast is about?'

Bobbi Rebell:
Well the show was evolving, with you.

Jordan Harbinger:
The show was evolving with me. And my business partners were not super happy about that, and so they decided that we were going to split, and then when they proposed a split, we all agreed on it, and then later on, they decided, 'actually, we're not going to give you anything,' because ... I think that they had ... well it's only one guy, really ... I think he had hoped that I wouldn't leave, because I was doing all of the stuff that they needed to do to generate revenue.

Jordan Harbinger:
And so, I think he really, kind of had a little bit of an ego melt-down.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you say they didn't give you, is this about money? That he didn't give you the money, the buy-out?

Jordan Harbinger:
Right, I still own a third of the company.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Jordan Harbinger:
But I'm locked out of everything. So instead of fighting for that, I said, you know what? I'm just going to start over. So I started my show, social media, email list, website, all from scratch.

Bobbi Rebell:
For people that don't know, can you talk a little bit about those assets, the value, and how they're created and what it takes to rebuild it?

Jordan Harbinger:
Sure. So, I had, essentially, created social media, Twitter accounts, since 2008 or whatever. An email list that had over, at that point, hundreds of thousands of people on it. A website that was getting millions of visits per month, and shows that were getting millions of downloads per month. And then, when all that was locked, I just basically ... I mean I literally created a new account on Twitter, called friends and said, 'hey man, can you whip up a website?' Put an email collection plug-in, in there, that was from a friend, Noah Kagan over at sumo dot com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh I love Noah Kagan, he's terrific.

Jordan Harbinger:
He's great. Yeah. And so, I started The Jordan Harbinger from episode one, after doing the other show for eleven years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a way to make people aware of this, other than, you're suddenly not on this show? And they're just being silent about it?

Jordan Harbinger:
No, there was no way for me to tell anyone. The listeners all had to come and look for me. And that's actually what happened.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where does this stand now? I mean, is there any recourse when this happens. Because people ... it's unusual, but it's sort of not.

Jordan Harbinger:
It's actually not that unusual, yeah. Now that I'm telling my split story everywhere, almost every successful entrepreneur is like, 'oh yeah, this happened to me a while ago,' or 'that happened to me a while ago, and I've never been happier.' It's really, really interesting to see. And, I've actually never been happier, myself, either. It's strange, you never realize how toxic environments are until you're out of them, because, it's that whole boiling frog thing, right? If they turn the temperature up by a notch every year, you're there for ten years, you don't realize you're on some sort of crazy funhouse ... funhouse is not the right word, a funhouse mirror-covered crazy-house, more like.

So when you get out of there, you go, 'oh! This is how normal people treat each other on teams, and this is how people celebrate wins together, and this is how people reinvest in a company.' Instead of causing stress, and blowing it. And so, it's actually just really, really been nice, for me, to pull the plug and start over. It's been rough, but it was absolutely worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's a human element to this. So you lost ... your website, you lost your branding, you lost your email list in that. But, you've took humans with you. Tell us about that.

Jordan Harbinger:
When everything hit the fan and fell apart, what I did is I made a list of people I wanted to call, and the first ten or twelve phone calls that I made were to people I know would say yes to helping me. CEOs and other entrepreneurs, and people that were really, really great to me, in the past. And they said, 'yeah, we're going to help you!' So I had this massive support network. I went on over a hundred other podcasts this year, along, well over that, actually, at this point. And rebuilt the show up to millions of downloads a month, from zero, in February. And now it's better than ever.

And it's just been so strange, because, oh! I also took a lot of the team with me. Because when I left, a lot of the other team, that was at the old company, was like, 'well, we came to work with you, man.' So they all left. And I said, 'I can only pay you half of what you're worth for the next foreseeable future,' and they said that's fine. So that's what happened, and I've made them whole since, but that was a massive vote of confidence.

Because all of this qualified staff left the old company. They all bounced.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well they followed you, more than they left. They went to where they saw the opportunity, and that's human nature.

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, that's true. I mean, I still have my production team, my [inaudible 00:08:14] team, everything. Everybody came with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, probably, many of your listeners are gradually migrating over, if they have not already. And because you have adjusted your format, and constantly evolve it, that's probably expanding what your opportunity is, and they see that.

Jordan Harbinger:
Exactly. There's been a lot of people that have said, 'oh, I didn't even know about the old show.' And I'm like, that's good. That's what I like to hear. Because, I don't necessarily just want to bring the same crowd, from the last show. There's great listeners from the last one, but The Jordan Harbinger Show is just a much better interview. It's a much more interesting project for everyone involved, and I've done a lot of the things that we used to do in the old company, like try to run live events, and do all this, and do all that. And I've realized, I actually don't like doing it.

So, it's pretty fun to just be on my own.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you move past something like this? Or do you not? Do you just work it into your life, and use it as part of who you are now?

Jordan Harbinger:
You work it into your life and use it as a part of who you are now. And granted, look, this is ten months since this thing. The lawsuit is still in full swing. So, it's not exactly, something I'm going to forget about this year, or probably even next year. But, that's all fine and good, I mean, this is trial by fire in a lot of ways. And I've certainly been through worse with less resources. Losing a business is a problem, but it's not losing a kid, it's not losing a spouse.

In fact, I look at it this way ... this isn't just rationalization either ... when I look at this, I think, if the deal that I had signed with the old company, had actually been honored, I would have been forced to gradually disentangle with them, over the period of three years. I would have had to promote their stuff, their products, the low quality stuff that was coming out now, I would have had to promote on my new show.

Instead, since they didn't honor anything, I have no non-compete, I can do whatever I want, I can make money however I want to do it. I can do anything in any niche, they have no say in anything. I can run any ads that I want and I don't owe them anything. In fact, they owe me thirty-three percent of the company share value.

So, it really ended up being like, the dumbest thing they possibly could have done. And for me, it was really scary, and then it turned out to be the best possible thing that could have happened.

Jordan’s money lesson:

I'm here to tell you, dig the well before you get thirsty. Because, if you try, when this stuff all happens to you, to reach out to everyone, and you're going, 'hey, look, I'm having a really hard time,' some people will be understanding. But a lot of people will be like, 'we haven't spoken in two, or five years, or whatever it is. I don't know what you want me to do. Best of luck.' Right?

But, since I'd done such a job ... I won't say great job, but such A job ... building and maintaining network connections, giving value, offering people things that can help them, without the expectation of getting something in return, when I did need help, people were coming out of the woodwork.

I mean, it was just, people I didn't even know were like, 'hey, heard what happened. Let me know if you want to come on my show and tell the story.' 'Hey, can I write an article about this for Ink?'

Jordan's everyday money tip:

I see a lot of people doing things like, spending ninety minutes, round-trip, driving to this produce farm, because they get cheaper stuff. And look, maybe you like organic produce from that farm, that's fine. But I see a lot of people doing really silly things to save money. Little, I wouldn't say scams, because they don't elevate that far, but I'm going to move the car eighty-five times, instead of renting a parking spot in my building in San Francisco. I mean I see stuff like this.

And they're lucky to break even on the cost of parking tickets at the end of the month, let alone all the time they spent, getting up at 5 AM so they can move their car, or driving around for twenty minutes, and then going back to sleep. I mean it's ridiculous, right? Pathological in some people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yes.

Jordan Harbinger:
But we like to focus on the big wins. And when I say that, what I mean is, the same people that will not rent the parking space in their building, in the city, so that they can park, and will drive around all day looking for parking spaces? These are the same people who will often keep credit card debt, so that their credit score takes a little bit of a ding, and then when they go to buy a house, they get a lower ... I should say higher ... interest rate, on that mortgage, and it ends up costing them sixty-eight thousand dollars. Right?

So we have to be really careful and focus on the big wins.

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Show up. Guys, we edit these podcasts, because, as you know, I really value your time. I want to keep them to around fifteen minutes. So, sometimes those edits are pretty severe. But we also edit out things, just to make the podcast better, not just for time. And in this case, we cut out a lot of Jordan coughing, and fighting to sound his best, for this interview.

Not that you would notice, he's a pro.

Jordan was battling a cold, and probably, at some level, exhaustion. He had just returned from a big speaking engagement, and was really not feeling well. But Jordan showed up. The man has done over one hundred podcasts promoting his new venture, not to mention, keeping to an aggressive appearance schedule, and other projects, building out his new business.

The guy shows up, and he works hard. No pity party, no year off, finding himself, blah blah blah. Jordan Harbinger works, and that is why his business is, and will continue to, grow, exponentially.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Did I ever tell you guys I was married in my 20s, and got a divorce? And believe me, I was the one that always said I did not believe in divorce. But it happened. The best thing I did, was give stuff up, because you know what? You can get it back, or you know what? You really don't need whatever stuff you're fighting over, in the end.

So if you have a split, business or personal, of course, fight for what is yours, to some degree. But eye on the prize. Be like Jordan and move on. Take the long road, and most of all, get to work building your new life, or your new business. Do not let your ex walk all over you, but don't get stuck fighting for some material item, or every last cent, so much so, that you get caught up in your past, and don't move forward.

Bobbi and Jordan also talk about:

• How Noah Kagan was instrumental in helping to get Jordan's business off the ground. To learn more about Noah, check out his website here - https://okdork.com/about/

Check out Jordan's website - www.jordanharbinger.com
Here is a link to his course we mentioned - https://www.jordanharbinger.com/course

Follow Jordan!

• Instagram

• Linked In

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Special guest co-host Manisha Thakor of the True WELLth podcast joins Bobbi to share ways to be not just wealthy but well-thy in 2019. 

The College Investor’s Robert Farrington loved his job at Target. He was also well paid. But he loved his family more. So he made the tough decision to leave and focus full-time on the side hustle that was already throwing off even more income. 

In Robert’s money story you will learn:

-The value of time and how Robert made the decision to leave a job he loved in order to spend more time with him family

-How Robert grew his side hustle from no income into his full-time business

-Advice on how to leave a job on great terms

In Robert’s money lesson you will learn:

-His take on the benefits of growing a side hustle

-The specific obstacles Robert prepared for before taking the lead in his business

In Robert’s every day money tip you will learn:

-The truth behind retail shopping myths

-Quick tips on saving money while grocery shopping

-The number one Black Friday tip

Bobbi and Robert also talk about:

-Where the idea for his website started

-His regrets about leaving his job

-The College Investor and the resources offered online

-The College Investor 6 minute audio show on Apple Music

In My Take you will learn

-How to be honest with employers about having a side hustle - while not oversharing

-How spending time with family during the holidays can be more valuable than rushing out for Black Friday Deals

 

EPISODE LINKS:

Follow Robert!!

Instagram @thecollegeinvestor

Youtube @TheCollegeInvestor

Linkedin Robert Farrington

Listen to The College Investor Podcast https://apple.co/2CqMuC3 

Learn more on The College Investor website https://thecollegeinvestor.com/ 

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Robert Farrington:
Am I really able to say that I value the time I spend with my family and stuff when I'm missing Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and weekends and not able to go to birthday parties?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, get ready for an episode not really about money, but about living a rich life with your family. It's about the price of your time and the value of your time, and for many of us, not all time is created equal. Target store manager, Robert Farrington, had the money, but he wanted the time. Not just any time. Nights, weekends, and holidays, specifically, the times that most of us get to be with our families, but in retail, not so much. Fortunately, he had something else going on. More on that in a sec.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, a quick welcome to our new listeners and to our returning ones. If you like the show, take a screen grab, share it on social. Then subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes, and make sure that you have it set in the settings for automatic download. With that, let us get to Robert Farrington's story. He now runs a little site. It's actually a really big deal website called The College Investor. And for you early stage entrepreneurs, it was a side hustle with literally zero income. Yes, zero income, no money coming in for the first two years, but that was a while back. He'll tell you more about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, it is his full-time business and it is growing. You're going to love this story. Here is, the College Investor. It's Robert Farrington.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Robert Farrington. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Robert Farrington:
Hey. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are ... And this is trademarked, my friends. You are America's student loan debt expert. You're also the founder and editor of The College Investor, so you have a lot of knowledge to share with us.

Robert Farrington:
Whew. You kind of scare me when you say it all, but yeah. I'm excited to share with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us a quick summary of what The College Investor is and then we're going to move into your money story.

Robert Farrington:
Sounds great. So, The College Investor was started by me as a side hustle in college, because I wanted to share my thoughts on how to invest. But everybody that I knew was like, "That's cool Robert, but I have student loans and other things and I just can't get there yet."

Robert Farrington:
So over the last few years, we've kind of incorporated more about getting out of student loan debt, getting out of debt in general, and how to build wealth so you can start investing even in your early 20s, or in college, so that you can build wealth and set those financial footprints in motion for your future.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, this is where it gets really cool and exciting, because you've been working on this for a very long time. You are married. You have two young children, the oldest one going into kindergarten. You were full time at Target until a year ago and this was your side hustle. And then you were able to make the decision to flip the switch and take your side hustle full time. And that's your money story. Tell us more Robert.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. So about three years ago, I started earning more than my Target job. You know, we were just stashing the money away and didn't really have any plans to leave because you have to understand, I have loved working at Target. It was a great company to work for. I had been there a long time. I was comfortable there. I was probably one of the top performers in my area, so life was really good at Target. But there is one big drawback about working in retail and that is that you have to work nights and weekends, and holidays.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even if you were the manager by then. You were pretty senior.

Robert Farrington:
Right, but I also believe in being a leader, so I would still work my weekends with my team. I would work a night a week with my team and then as the leader, I definitely had to be there on Black Friday and throughout the holiday season. It meant having Thanksgiving lunch at like 12:00 and then going to work at 2:00 in the afternoon on Thanksgiving day, so that we're ready to go when the store opens.

Robert Farrington:
That really became hard as my kids were getting older.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so tell me about the conversation that you had with your wife when this decision was made.

Robert Farrington:
It really was a series of decisions. First off, it was like, this is a cool side hustle. Let's not change anything. And then it was like, wow this is really becoming more of a thing and we can live off this business income on the side. And you don't need to work there. Finally, I really had to think about what we valued as a family. So my wife and I were talking and you hear these things like, "Show me your money and show me your time, and it will tell you what you value." So, am I really able to say that I value the time I spend with my family and stuff, when I'm missing Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and weekends, and not able to go to birthday parties.

Robert Farrington:
So, it was really really hard to leave something I was so comfortable with, but at the same time I also wasn't living my truth in that I wasn't necessarily doing exactly what I valued. And we could afford it. I could afford the life I wanted to, and said that I wanted to. And that really was a big part of our conversation with my wife.

Robert Farrington:
The second thing is, is contingency plans. We always had these conversations. I run an online business, so it's like, what happens if the internet goes out tomorrow? Right? Are we going to be financially okay if suddenly there is no income stream. So, it really was about planning and making sure we had enough saved and if the internet did stop tomorrow and I left my day job, would we be okay financially? And we kind of checked all these boxes and once those were all yeses, it was setting a timeline up for when does it make the most sense to leave?

Bobbi Rebell:
They knew about the side hustle right?

Robert Farrington:
It was one of those things. I never hid it, but I was never fully overt about it. It had been on my LinkedIn profile for a decade. My peers, every now and then, I'd get student loan questions from my peers. They'd be like, "I'm trying to pay off my student loans. Can you help me?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, but did the Target management know that this was producing more income than they were paying you?

Robert Farrington:
I never shared that, so I'm 99% sure that they had no idea. In fact, I know most of them didn't because when I left and afterwards, they had a little going away party for me and like, "We wish you the best of luck. We hope this all works well for you."

Bobbi Rebell:
So they had no idea?

Robert Farrington:
Yeah, and I never hid that. So that's the interesting thing. If no one asked, I was very candid. I've been candid even for the last seven, eight years online. On different podcasts and interviews and stuff, so it's out there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did they ever think maybe we should pay him more? If he can make more from a blog, maybe we're underpaying him? Was there any kind of conversation like that, ever?

Robert Farrington:
It's hard, because I was extremely well paid. It was a nice six-figure ... I don't think people realize what you make at Target, but I was, with my bonuses and stuff, I was probably making about $180,000/year when I left.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So, let's go back to quitting. So, how did you actually quit?

Robert Farrington:
So, I really did think about this and planned it out. Because I also, like I said, I wanted to leave on really good terms. I didn't want to burn any bridges, so I actually, my wife and I finalized our plans for leaving in February, or March of last year. We said we're going to leave in September. And I thought this was very respectful from the workload that was going on at Target, but it was also enough time that they could have enough leeway to have everything in place before the holiday season.

Robert Farrington:
I decided that we're going to give a month notice, so I actually told my boss in August. And I probably gave about five and a half, six weeks notice. But I was fully ... You hear these horror stories like, if they were going to walk me out that day or something crazy, I was fully prepared to leave that day. But I was going to be very respectful, and so when my boss came in August, I would say she comes like once or twice a month. When she came in, I just pulled her into my office and said, "I have something really important to share with you." She had no idea what was coming. I said, "Hey. So I have some big changes I want to tell you. I am going to be resigning and I'm going to be pursuing my own endeavors outside of Target. Spending more time with my family."

Robert Farrington:
And the look of shock, she actually texted me like four hours later. So I told her at probably 4:00 in the afternoon, so this was like 8:00 at night. She's like, "I cannot believe this. This is crazy. I'm totally shocked." I totally caught her off guard. But I gave them, like I said, almost six weeks notice. So, I felt like I left in the most respectful and terms possible. Which I also think is the best way to possibly leave if you are going to leave.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the reaction around your store?

Robert Farrington:
Most of them were pretty excited for me. I think all my direct reports actually were much more aware of everything then anybody else above me. And so, it was less of a shock, but same thing. I'm also very diligent in how you let people know, so make sure you have a very strong hierarchy of letting my senior managers know. And then just announcing it downward. Clear communication before I even let them know. So, I don't think I let them know until about a week and a half after I let my boss know. So my boss already had some plans in place, and we were able to share some very specific plans, which I think is really important when you transition in any workplace.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there things you would do differently, looking back?

Robert Farrington:
I honestly would probably do it sooner. It's one of those things, I was so worried about all these random variables. And I probably gave an extra year or two to Target. And like I said, it's a great company but at the same time, what could I have done in those extra year or two when I could have left longer. That's the only real regret I have.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?

Robert Farrington:
I think the big lesson is, if you grow this side hustle with your time and energy outside of work instead of watching TV shows, or doing whatever non-productive things you're probably doing outside of work, you could turn this into a full-time job that you're passionate about, you love, and it works with your schedule. So, I think it's definitely a clear path that you can actually achieve if you want to put the time and effort into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your everyday money tip. We're going to tap into your knowledge as a retail expert, having seen it all, from the grassroots level. Tell us what people can do to save money and be better shoppers at stores, not necessarily just Target, but stores like Target. What can they know about pricing, about sales, and so on?

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. Let's debunk some of these myths first. So first off, I always love these Buzzfeed articles that come out. What digits are the last ones that you know what the markdowns are?

Robert Farrington:
Well, let's talk a little bit about math. So almost every price in retail ends in 99 cents, right? So, when you mark something down half off, it's always going to end in eight. Because that's just math. And so when you mark it down 75% off, for the third time, or the second markdown, it's going to end in a four. So, these math strategies that they say are secret hacks, is really just the math of the sales. It's true.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Robert Farrington:
I think people just need to realize that. I think the best thing ... The other thing that people need to realize is that, almost every store Target included, puts the same things on sale every two weeks. So it just alternates, so if you're a regular grocery shopper, you'll notice this a lot. Especially in food, because one week it'll be Coke on sale, the next week it'll be Pepsi on sale. And then it goes back to Coke on sale. Then it goes back to Pepsi on sale. And it's the same sale. It's just goes alternating every other week. And you see this in almost every major retailer, so one, if you have really strong brand allegiance, align your shopping habits with your sale week and you'll probably find that you're going to get that same sale every time you go in because it will line up with your shopping habits.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you said you always have to work, you've always had to work the holidays and especially Black Friday. What's your number one Black Friday tip?

Robert Farrington:
The number one Black Friday tip is that all the ads come online about a month before Black Friday. So you can plan out all your shopping ahead of time. And you have to realize that the door busters at every store, there's only about 10 to maybe 50 of that item. And so, if there's one thing that you really really really really can't live without, if you're not the first 10 to 50 people in line, you're probably not going to get it. So don't waste your time going out there.

Robert Farrington:
The second thing though, that's really emerged over the last couple years is online shopping. So at the same time, a lot of these companies are trying to compete with each other and they're moving their Black Friday sales online and they're moving them on to the week before Black Friday. So you can get a lot of the same great deals online, but without even going to the store, about a week before you even shop.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk more about what's going on with The College Investor. So this is your full-time passion project, slash income, slash growing company. You've got a whole staff there now. You're managing that now. What are you priorities? Where is your growth going to come from? What can people expect and look forward to there?

Robert Farrington:
So if you want to know anything about getting out of student loan debt, and starting to invest, The College Investor has it for you. We have pretty much every topic around student loan debt covered and you know, sadly as much as I don't want this to be the growing reason for our growth, student loan debt in America is growing and it's such a problem for most people. So we have your answers. We have tools and resources that can help you. If you don't like to read, you can also listen to The College Investor audio show. It's a podcast where we change our written articles into a short digestible audio show for you because I know-

Bobbi Rebell:
You love that. Love short.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. I love that.

Robert Farrington:
Short. I mean, I think I beat you because my average show time is like six to eight minutes because we're just talking about the daily article of the day.

Bobbi Rebell:
But that's perfect. That's what people need because everyone's busy. Alright, where can people ... People can obviously reach you at The College Investor, but tell me your social channels et cetera.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. You can go to thecollegeinvestor.com. You can go to The College Investor audio show. You can find us on YouTube at The College Investor and you can find us on Instagram at The College Investor.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you Robert.

Robert Farrington:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, that pricing math that Robert thinks is so obvious to everyone, I had no clue. What about you?

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on what he had to say. Financial Grownup tip number one. If you have a side hustle, follow Robert's path and be open about it at work. You don't have to be too open. When I went to write my book, How to be a Financial Grownup, the first thing I did was tell my managers and get their okay. Don't hide things. But then also, don't work on it during your work hours and you can be open about your plans, but you don't have to share the whole big picture and all your grand plans.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. I love that Robert chose family over spending time working on the holidays. The same can be said for shopping. Before you race out to get one of those amazing, say Black Friday deals, remember that Robert said, and a lot of you know this already, there are very few available. So, you'll have to get here really early and spend a lot of time, invest a lot of time, to get it. So is saving money really worth cutting into your family time on a holiday? Maybe look online, a different day, ahead of time and set a price alert. Then, if you get that alert, you can spend five minutes buying it online and get back to being with your family. Or, maybe what you have is fine and you don't buy it at all.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before we wrap up, tell me, I want to know, what's your best retail shopping tip? DM it to me. And please, take a minute to follow me on social media. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram. bobbirebell on Twitter, and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. The website to get more information about the show, bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast and for the show notes and more about Robert and the The College Investor, go to bobbirebell.com/podcast/robertfarrington and thanks to The College Investor's Robert Farrington for bringing us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Performance coach Jen Cohen is a master at ab crunches— crunching numbers. She shares the story of how she talked her way into a job at Olive Garden before she was even old enough to work- and then reveals her secrets to eating healthier on a tight budget. 

Jennifer’s Money Story:

Thanks, Bobbi. When you asked that question, it makes you think and go back into your brain a little bit to think why someone is the way they are, subconsciously. I think it really goes back to when I was really small, four, five years old when my mom and dad did get divorced, and I guess money was quite tight. I do remember my mom, to make extra money, my mom is a psychiatric nurse, and she had a full-time job, but she had now two kids also, and it wasn't enough, so she would have these odd jobs.

Jen Cohen:
I don't remember all the details, but I do remember her working to sell stuff. She sold Mary Kay cosmetics on the side. She would also cut out pieces of the carpet in our apartment where she was selling them, and I think that vision or that imagery really stuck in my brain in a negative way. It told me right at that moment, "I don't want to be poor, or I always want to make my own money and feel financially stable and secure, not to rely on somebody else for my financial security."

Jen Cohen:
From that moment, I guess even as a small, small child, I went through life thinking of ways of having side hustles or working and doing things. When I was 12 years old, I remember bargaining and hustling with the manager of the Olive Garden down my street about working for him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, you were 12 years old, and you were working at Olive Garden?

Jen Cohen:
I was. I was a greeter. They wouldn't allow me at 12 because you're too young to get ... I wasn't allowed in the actual restaurant because it was illegal, but I negotiated my way with this guy and just begged him and just hawked him enough where he gave me a job as a greeter. I was able to open up the front door for customers when they walk in. When they first get there, the first person you see was me, and I'm like, "Hello, welcome to Olive Garden." That was really my first real legit job when I was in nine, no, seventh, eighth grade, something really ... I was young, where I remember people in my neighborhood be like coming to the restaurant and be like, "What are you doing here?" It was very odd.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it sounds like you were actually really proud to be earning money, even at that young age. You weren't embarrassed about it. You were excited.

Jen Cohen:
Oh, God. No. I loved it. I always loved having my own money. I always loved having that option, never having to ask my mom or whoever. If I wanted something, I would have it, but here's a caveat. I would never spend my money, so all of this was for me to have savings. It wasn't for me to actually buy stuff. I've never been a very materialistic person. It's really about having in my head knowing that I had that backup, having that security blanket. I would literally save everything.

Jen Cohen:
Then through high school, through college, I always had multiple jobs just so I had it where very comfortable later on, but it was never about that. I've been very rich, and I've been poor, or in the middle, but it's never been that story that's driven me. It's really about that I think one experience when I was a little girl that just has always been subconsciously in my brain where I'm driven to make and create financial security just to have it.

Jennifer’s Money Lesson:

The takeaway is, A, number one, always spend below your means, not above, just so you have that ability, and find and figure out ways to save money. There's so many ways now. You can eat cheaply. You can figure out ways. You can work out for free. You can eat for less than $7 a day. There's a lot of ways to be crafty and resourceful if you want to be.

Jennifer’s Money Tip:

People can actually be much healthier on a very restricted budget. First of all, eating canned salmon. Canned salmon is automatically wild.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't know that.

Jen Cohen:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
And wild salmon is better. That's not just a myth to charge you more at the store.

Jen Cohen:
Absolutely not. Farmed salmon has a lot of toxins and maybe a lot of mercury. It could have a lot of different things in it. That's why people say limit your fish intake to maybe once a week, twice at max.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and that wild salmon is really expensive near me.

Jen Cohen:
It's expensive everywhere, but if you buy canned salmon, just make sure you look on the can. If it says wild Alaskan, that can of salmon would be maybe $2.50 to $3 at most, and that's higher quality than salmon that you would buy that would normally cost about $14 a pound anywhere else, maybe $17 a pound, depending on where you live. That is the perfect portion. That in itself is a meal.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you usually eat it? Do you put it on a salad? What do you do with it usually?

Jen Cohen:
You could do anything. You could put it on a salad. You could actually ... When I'm starving and I need something to satiate me, I could just take the can of salmon, mash it a little bit of Vegenaise or mayonnaise whatever you'd like, or just put it in a bowl or whatever, eat out of the can as a snack. When I was on a budget I would eat that all the time, and I still eat that.

Jen Cohen:
The other thing is frozen vegetables. Frozen vegetables are a higher quality-sourced produce than what you find at the store because by the time it's at the store, it's been sitting on trucks, it's already half rotten. When you buy frozen vegetables, they flash-freeze them when it's at its peak, so the quality is better.

Bobbi Rebell:
So frozen vegetables, but not canned vegetables? What's the difference there?

Jen Cohen:
Listen. Canned corn, there's nothing wrong with canned corn. I mean, the reality is this: I don't like canned vegetables as much because I think when you do that in the cans, they have to add sodium. I try to stay away from that, but when it's the frozen vegetables, it's typically just the vegetable in itself flash-freeze in a bag so there's no added anything. It's just the vegetables. Canned vegetables typically have to have a preservative to keep it because it's not frozen, and also added salt. That's why I choose to have the frozen vegetables.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that all.

Jen Cohen:
And frozen fruit, by the way, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, and I do that in smoothies a lot, actually. I did that even today in a smoothie.

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Don't be a food snob. Jen talked about eating frozen veggies and canned fish and how, quote, "fresh" isn't always better even if it's organic. Oh, my goodness. Could you imagine? Organic not being the absolute best? You need to pay attention. You can really get burned paying up for all that so-called fresh food because when you take away all those chemicals, which you should, we don't want the chemicals on our food, of course, but sometimes, the shelf life is just really short.

Recently, I splurged on these organic grapes at Whole Foods, and they went bad so fast. I had paid $8 for a bunch because I really wanted the grapes and I wanted to feel like I was eating healthy, and they barely lasted. That is also, by the way, a reason not to go shopping with your kids because I was with my son, and he also felt we should get the grapes, even though they were really expensive, and it's really hard to say no to a kid with they ask for food that's actually not junk food. Even if it's not the absolute healthiest fruit, it's not junk food, and that hard not to encourage, so try to leave your kids at home when you shop, although that's not always realistic.

Financial grownup tip number two:

The power of persuasion is very real. Good for Jen. Jen really shouldn't have been working at the Olive Garden at age 12 because it was not actually fully legal, but she got her way because she was creative and she found a way to get to yes with a reluctant manager and find a way to work there without technically working there and not technically breaking the law. That was a great lesson for all of us, Jen. Be persuasive and find a way around obstacles.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Jennifer’s website - jennifercohen.com

• How to save money and cut calories on your morning coffee from Starbucks

• Jen's book Badass Body Goals

Follow Jennifer!

• Instagram - @TheRealJenCohen

• Twitter - @TheRealJenCohen

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Performance coach Jen Cohen is a master at ab crunches— crunching numbers. She shares the story of how she talked her way into a job at Olive Garden before she was even old enough to work- and then reveals her secrets to eating healthier on a tight budget. #EatHealthy #EatHealthyOnABudget #Author

After buying an expensive home, Certified Financial Planner David Rae found himself facing an income crunch during the recession. His decision to get a roommate helped him keep the home and stay on track with his financial and lifestyle goals. 

In David's money story you will learn:

-That even CFP's experience money troubles too

-Creative ideas to help alleviate the cost of a home

-Ways to cope with the feeling of failure when financial goals aren't met

-The real reason people can afford big houses

-What David looks for in a roommate!

In David’s money lesson you will learn:

-Financial problems should be dealt with head on

-There are creative ways to cut spending that won't inhibit your lifestyle

In David's everyday money tip you will learn:

-David's favorite credit cards and the perks of each one

-The easiest way David saves money while traveling first class 

-How to prioritize your spending to afford nice vacations

In My Take you will learn:

-Being a financial grownup means keeping on track with your goals, not living a certain lifestyle

-Take action if a financial disaster is coming your way, don't wait for it to go away

EPISODE LINKS

Check out David's website FinancialPlannerLA.com

Follow David!

Instagram: @DavidRaeLA

Linked In: @David Rae, CFP

Twitter: @DavidRaeCFP

Facebook: @DavidRaeCFP

In this Financial Grownup episode we have Certified Financial Planner David Rae as a guest on our show. He talks about decisions he made that make him a Financial Grownup like getting a roommate. He also gives us tips on how we can save money traveling first class. #FinancialGrownup #SaveMoney #Traveling

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

David Rae:
It did kind of feel like I was failing in a way to have to get a roommate, but then looking forward, I'm like this means I can actually be successful and keep the house, rebound, and let it rebound in value, and still travel and have fun and do all the things I wanted to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Growing Up with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grown up. You know what, being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, that was my friend certified financial planner, David Rae. Even though he felt like he was failing, he was in fact pivoting, very well in fact, to deal with things beyond his control. More on that in a moment. Just wanna thank all of you for your support. We have been doing some new content here, adding in bonus episodes on topics you guys have requested, and the feedback has been amazing. Please keep it coming, DM me on Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and on Twitter and BobbiRebell, and tell me what you think about the changes we've been making, and what kind of topics you want us to be covering. Reviews are great, too if you wanna support the show, and of course, tell a friend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk now about about David Rae. He takes being a financial grown up very seriously, and so it was hard, but maybe not too hard to make a decision when the recession hit a decade ago. Here is David Rae.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey David Rae, you're a financial grown up, welcome to the podcast.

David Rae:
Thanks for having me on.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of all the wisdom that you share with so many people. You're quoted very widely in the media, you're on TV all the time, and a lot of it has to do with your expertise being a financial planner, and telling us what to do when we need it in advance of what we need it. And the story that you brought to share with us here on Financial Grown Up I love because it has to do with the fact that you're kind of just like us in that things happen that you can't always control with the economy and the larger environment, but you, even though you're a CFP, still have to deal with them. Tell us your money story.

David Rae:
I did a lot of planning and I went out and bought a very nice and expensive house in LA. This was right before the financial crisis, so I bought my house in early 2007. I thought I got a great deal, I got like $300,000 off the asking price, little did I know that the financial crisis was coming. I got a house that I thought I could afford with my growing income, and when we went into the financial crisis, my income didn't go up as much as it had in the past, and a few years in, it had started to decline actually, and that combined that with real estate values tanking, I had to go back to my financial plan and look at my spending and where I wanted to spend money, and instead of having to cut back on my travel and fun with friends, I decided to get a roommate

David Rae:
And I think that was a really big financial grown up moment because it did kind of feel like I was failing in a way to have to get a roommate, but then looking forward, I'm like this means I can actually be successful and keep the house, rebound, and let it rebound in value, and still travel and have fun and do all the things I wanted to do. And I have a big, nice house, I can have a roommate here. It wasn't like I was sharing a room.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about what happened. How do you even start looking for a roommate? How old were you at the time, and you'd been living on your own for how long?

David Rae:
I hadn't been on my own that long. I'd had roommates before I bought the house, so it wasn't like a huge, big deal. It wasn't like I was married with ten kids running around which would make it a lot more difficult, but I was in my mid twenties, I had been a few years in to being a financial planner, and I planned ahead. I could make the payment, I could afford the house, even with the drop in income, but it juts would be tight and really not a fun process. Plus, I was looking at real estate values and they had dropped pretty substantially around the country.

David Rae:
By getting a roommate, I was able to still travel, still have money, and still be able to save for my financial goals, like retirement and all those fun things that a financial planner should be doing. And at the same time, it allowed me to stay in my home because I bought a bigger, more expensive home knowing I would be there for a long time. Since I've bought the house, it's doubled in value, it just had a very nice 30 or 40 percent dip during the financial crisis, like much real estate did during that time. But looking forward, because I kept the house and stuck with it, even when times were tough, I was able to come out ahead with this great investment on my house which if I took the dip out of it, it looks great, my house doubled in value in like 10-11 years, which is a pretty nice return there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because the truth is, as long as you can afford the payments, and you don't fall into a problem situation, it only matters the day that you buy an investment, and the day that you sell it. So even though there, as you say there's this dip, ultimately, it really is just on paper, because you had enough of a financial cushion, and you also made a big lifestyle adjustment.

David Rae:
Absolutely, and you know, most investments, it really does help to have time on your side, and real estate is one of those things as well because so many bailed out. And don't get me wrong, there are people that maybe their house dropped a lot more or they didn't want to live there and there was reasons to sell, or if I was gonna be going into credit card debt or racking up other bills, or not able to pay my mortgage, it would be a different conversation.

David Rae:
But with roommates, I was able to maintain my lifestyle, and then now I don't have roommates. I've since gotten married, and the house is mine and it's been upgraded and all this great stuff. But I weathered the storm, and I think having a plan and facing being a financial grown up really can make you smooth some of these tough times out.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was it like looking for a roommate? How did you even do that? Were there a lot of people looking for places to stay more than usual because of what was going on in the larger economy?

David Rae:
You know, I'm in the center of LA, so a lot of people are looking for roommates. Rent is really expensive here, so me renting a room in the house was still a few hundred dollars cheaper rent wise for someone coming to rent a room versus getting their own one bedroom or studio apartment. Plus it was fun, I mean I was in my 20's, so I think a lot of people in their 20's still have roommates, especially in bigger cities, and it was still fun to have because we had game night at the house, and we had people over for American Idol, so it was actually a really nice social thing because I was single and it probably actually aided my social life more than being a hindrance. Like oh my god, my terrible roommates sitting on the couch, you know, the horrible thing that people are probably picturing when they're thinking of getting a roommate or some hobbit that never leaves the house.

David Rae:
I actually had friends living with me, and it was not a problem to find roommates, and over the years I had a few roommates move in, and then the final roommate stayed probably two years after I got married. We just enjoyed having them here, and when they finally moved out, we didn't replace them.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love the fact that you're not living in absolutes. You didn't say well I am a grown up now, so I must live in this house alone, and it would be very immature to have roommates or whatever, or deal with people judging you. You made a financially responsible decision and it also was kind of fun in the end.

David Rae:
It was fun in the end, and looking ahead to where I'm at financially now as a financial planner, that meant my 401k contributions were still made, my mortgage was still paid, I didn't rack up credit card debt, and that's turned into hundreds of thousands of dollars over that time when I put it into the stock market and let it grow. So it really can make a huge difference when you give it time and let it compound.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what is the takeaway for our listeners?

David Rae:
Don't ignore financial problems. That's the biggest thing. I could have probably ignored it, and a lot of other people ignore when they're out of work and they don't wanna cut back, or they've gotten a decrease in pay, or they've had an illness. I face it head on, and it really meant that I could brave the storm and come out stronger on the other end. And I had some fun along the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and you know what, the other thing is you you didn't have to deprive yourself of things you enjoyed, like travel, so you were able to still do things that were discretionary to some degree. Because sometimes people in that situation, maybe would not have thought to take on a roommate, or chosen not to, and then they just wouldn't have traveled for two years.

David Rae:
And do what's right for you. I mean obviously some other people, you're right, it may be better to just not travel, but that wasn't what I wanted to be doing in my mid 20's when I was single and free and could run around the world and have a great time and I also wanted to have a house and I wanted to save for the future cause I am a financial planner, and I do love saving my money and seeing my net worth grow, which wasn't necessarily happening on paper during the financial crisis when the market was dropping and real estate values were dropping, and my income wasn't doing what I would like it to be doing, or what it's doing today.

David Rae:
But I'm here and I made it through and I was a financial grown up.

Bobbi Rebell:
You were proactive, and that's the important thing. Lets talk about your everyday money tip, because it also has to do with travel and making sure that you can travel the way that you want to travel. You have some tips for us.

David Rae:
Absolutely. My big thing to think about is prioritize what's important to you, cause I see so many people that say they can't afford to travel, but they're driving an expensive car, or they're living in a really expensive house, and that just doesn't leave any money leftover to travel. So prioritize your spending, and for me, one of the biggest ways that I can really travel in style, because I've gotten spoiled and like to fly say first class around the world. I use credit card points and miles to really make that affordable. I'm not gonna be spending $15,000 a ticket like my last trip to Europe would have cost if I paid cash. But i used miles, so I spent like $50 on that, and the way I accrue a ton of miles is I put all of my bills on credit cards, just disclaimer, I pay them off every month, I can afford what I'm spending. And I put them on the credit cards that will get me the most miles.

David Rae:
At Staples and Office Depot I get five points on one of my cards, and I have another card that gives me like four points on dining and other cards give you money on gas and utilities. So finding the cards that will give you the most points, as well as sign up bonuses and status matches. So I have an airline card that helps me have higher status, and I've gotten upgraded like 12 times this year on almost all of my flights from just having status, so that's free, sitting in first or business class. Just for having status. I like free.

Bobbi Rebell:
I like free.

David Rae:
I like nice stuff for free.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what resources, do you have any favorite resources that you can point us to?

David Rae:
I really like the points guy. It's a website that has a bunch of tips there, and there's another blogger called Eric Rosen who has a bunch of stuff on the internet if you google him, he talks really about how to get upgraded to first class, which is a great resource there.

Bobbi Rebell:
I need that.

David Rae:
I know you do. There's nothing more financial grown up than being first class, especially [crosstalk 00:10:46]-

Bobbi Rebell:
Not if you pay for it though. Definitely not gonna pay for it in actual cash or money. But if it could be free, that works for me.

David Rae:
We could all do that, we can all use miles and points or status, and just being a little strategic on how you do it, I book my hotels a lot of times through hotels dot com and I just went away for the weekend and used free nights. I went to Vegas and had two free nights of hotel. So it's just stretching the money you're making and spending to turn it into more travel and more fun, and that's just the stuff I love. I know other people like cash back, or gift cards or things like that, but I love to travel, and again, I've become a little spoiled and wanna be up in first class when possible, even though I believe Barbara Corcharan says she's back in coach. But I'll be up in first and that's how I like it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before I let you go, I love your blog. Tell me about your blog.

David Rae:
My blog is Financial Planner LA dot com, and I really just try to bring fun tips to money. I know we get pretty serious as a financial planner, and you say the big B word, budget, but I really like to go more in the range of pop culture and fun, and I did a big series on the Golden Girls retirement, how you can retire and have a fabulous time [crosstalk 00:11:56].

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that, I was retweeting that one, I loved it.

David Rae:
I know, it's so much fun. People really love that. It's kind of taking that roommate story and going this can actually be a great, positive thing, and a happy dream retirement. We'd all love to live with friends, or at least have that kind of friendships around. So I try to make money fun, and definitely the tax stuff is in there, and the nuts and bolts are in there, but we try and wrap it in something fun so you're not just stocks and bonds.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, and it's a great resource, especially because we're heading into the end of the year, and there's a lot of changes, and you mentioned the tax law, so you're a great resource as a Certified Financial Planner to check out for all of that. And just before I let you go, one last thing, share with us your social handles so people can follow you.

David Rae:
Yes, on Twitter I'm DavidRae, R-A-E, CFP. On Instagram, I'm DavidRaeLA, and on Facebook it's David Rae CFP as well. So check me out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, David.

David Rae:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. For all the talk about delayed adulthood these days, the truth is, there is still a stigma with having roommates as not being a very grown up thing. But, being a grown up means making adjustments and being real when you need to. Life's complicated, things get messy, and there's a lot of unpredictable stuff that we can't always be fully prepared for. So we have to be ready to make changes and go with the flow a little bit. Sometimes things just kind of happen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up tip number one, do what you have to do to stay on track with your financial goals. David took on roommates. It wasn't so bad, in fact, he had a pretty good time with it. I moved back in with my parents when I got a divorce early in my adult life. I sold the tiny one bedroom apartment that I had owned, regrouped for a year, saved money, and moved out. Stronger financially, and also just like David had a good time with his roommates, it was kind of nice getting to know my parents as an adult.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up tip number two, if you see the financial train wreck coming down the tracks, and you know it's coming guys, you can see it, get a plan together fast. Don't assume things are just gonna fix themselves or you can just bury your head in the sand. They're not gonna go away so easily. Even if your plan isn't perfect, just have some kind of plan. Do something. You can adjust it later. But denial and procrastination like David said, just too expensive. You deserve better.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for your continued support. If you have not, please subscribe to the podcast. It's free. Go into the manual settings when you do it, and setup auto downloads so you don't miss any upcoming episodes, and of course, please tell a friend that you care about and who you think deserves to have a rich life.

Bobbi Rebell:
David Rae is such a wonderful role model for all of us. Thank you for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grown ups.

Guest co-host and shopping expert Trae Bodge joins Bobbi with her three rules that practically guarantee you will avoid amateur spending mistakes this holiday season.

Ambition Redefined author Kathryn Sollmann’s childhood took an unexpected financial detour when her father had a career setback. But becoming a financial grownup at a young age gave her the foundation to redefine ambition. 

In Kathryn's money story you will learn:

-Why she started working at a young age

-How her financially stressful childhood prepared her for success

-The way she wished her parents talked about money when she was growing up

In Kathryn’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to have honest conversations about money with a significant other

-Why Kathryn suggests women should always have a way to make money

-Her tips on how to balance work and family life

In Kathryn's everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to categorize your savings account

-Ways prioritize saving money while staying out of debt

In My Take you will learn:

-Financial grownups don't judge, every financial plan is unique to each family or individual but making smart decisions are what make plans successful

-Family time and work time don't have to be separate, hear what Bobbi and Kathryn have to say about blending a schedule in order to balance it

EPISODE LINKS

Read Kathryn's new book Ambition Redefined here

Check out Kathryn's website for more information here

Follow Kathryn!

Instagram: @KathrynSollmann

Twitter: @KathrynSollmann

Linked In: @KathrynSollmann

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
The financial situation at home got so tenuous that my father, a couple of times, took my little part-time afterschool paychecks to pay a few bills while he was waiting for some things to come in and that had just a profound impact on me.

BOBBI REBELL:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, financial grownup friends. I like to joke that it is never too young to grow up financially, but I'm rethinking that a bit, and that is because my guest, Ambition Redefined author, Kathryn Sollman, got a rude awakening when her comfortable upper middle class suburban life was interrupted by the harsh financial reality of a change in her family's financial situation. More on that in just a minute.

BOBBI REBELL:
First, a quick welcome to everyone. If you are new, so glad you found us. Please hit the subscribe button so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and go into custom settings and set to auto download. While you are there, it will make our day if you leave a quick review. Now to Kathryn Sollman. Love her book, Ambition Redefined, but I will warn you, she makes him controversial arguments. And while I do see her point, and she does a lot of research, there's a lot of data to backup everything she says, there is a lot of discussion about her perspective. And stay to the end. We will be giving away a signed copy of Ambition Redefined. Here is Kathryn Sollman.

BOBBI REBELL:
Kathryn Sollman, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Oh, thanks for having me. It's great to be here.

BOBBI REBELL:
I love your new book. Congratulations on it. It is Ambition Redefined: Why The Corner Office Doesn't Work For Every Woman And What To Do Instead. It's like you read my mind, Kathryn.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Yeah. We're in an era of women's empowerment, which is great, and we need to have a woman president, and we need to have more women running corporations, but that's very small percentage of women overall who want those kinds of jobs.

BOBBI REBELL:
Absolutely, and I do want to just mention that this is very important for men as well because men are huge stakeholders in this issue because they have so much at stake when it comes to not only whether they're women partners, their sisters, their mothers, their daughters work, but also the income that they generate because that can be a big factor when things don't go as planned, which brings us to your money story, which does have to do with your father and what happened and the impact on the rest of the family and the role that your mother had to play then in the family finances. Tell us your money story, Kathryn.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
I grew up in a very affluent community. My father was working in a big executive job in New York City. When I was in middle school, he lost that big job and he never fully recovered professionally. This then sent my mother, who was a former teacher, back to work and she hadn't worked in more than 20 years.

BOBBI REBELL:
Wow.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
So she had some fits and starts, but over time was able to reinvent herself to be an English as a second language teacher, but that wasn't really enough to keep the household going. So there was a tremendous amount of financial stress in the household. The financial situation at home got so tenuous that my father, a couple of times, took my little part-time afterschool paychecks to pay a few bills while he was waiting for some things to come in, and that had just a profound impact on me.

BOBBI REBELL:
What was your job?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
It was a company called the Danbury Mint. I guess I was a like an administrative assistant.

BOBBI REBELL:
And what kind of conversations did you have with your father or with your parents at this time?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
You know, it was a difficult environment because I felt like everything was always on pins and needles. I was young and it's not like I could have given my father advice. I was just kind of a victim.

BOBBI REBELL:
Well, what about your mother? How did she feel? Did you talk to her? Did she have regrets about having left the workforce? At the time, as you say, it was a different time. Did she feel she even had options not to leave the workforce?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
She felt a little powerless and she said that to me. She said, "Make sure that you always work because money is power." Not only in a relationship can money be power, but she said it's important that you have that power to support yourself and your family. I remember when she got one of her first big paychecks, she was very excited about being back to work and she bought herself a watch. I remember my father was very, very upset that she had bought that watch for herself because he felt like he should have bought it for her.

BOBBI REBELL:
What is the takeaway from your story for our listeners?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
You know, women really need to be sure that they're not delegating their financial security to a partner because even when things seem like they're going so well, you've got to realize that no job has a lifetime guarantee. The second thing is that women should always find a way to work in a flexible way, which in some circles, is very controversial. Women live longer than men. They typically earn and save less and it's very difficult to return to the workforce and recoup lost earnings when you've been out of the workforce for many years and women are out for an average of 12 years.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
If you feel like you have a moral obligation to be with your children 24/7, you've got to realize that if you ran out of money late in life, you would then, in fact, burden those very same children, which is basically what happened to me when my father took a couple of my paychecks. Fast forward, that's the same man who is not prepared for retirement and still alive at 89. At some point, he is going to run out of money and it's going to be my problem.

BOBBI REBELL:
All right, let's move on to the everyday money tip, which is also very important for women to have a sense of the contribution that they are making because, in some cases, many cases, they are not the primary breadwinner, but it is important to really understand that there is a significant contribution being made financially and you have a way to do that.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
What I always say is look at how much money you're bringing in each year and attach it to something. It could be two family vacations, it could be 50 percent or 100 percent of a college tuition bill, a child's braces, whatever it is, so that you can then say, "Okay, well I covered that. My money went to that." If you just put it all in the pot, it seems like your money is going to nothing or nothing significant.

BOBBI REBELL:
Right.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
And that's the way to make yourself feel better but also to, as my mother was saying, to exert a little power into the relationship and say, "I'm contributing too. This isn't just your ballgame."

BOBBI REBELL:
Which is very important because it makes it a lot more tangible. Let's talk about Ambition Redefined. I love this book. It's so relatable and there's a lot of truths in this that are not always spoken about, one of which is the fact that just because you were working flexible hours and sometimes part time hours does not mean you are earning less money or that you should settle for less money if you have the earning power in the market to earn more money.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Yeah, it's absolutely true. A large percentage of freelancers earn more money than they were making in their full time jobs within a year. I was just speaking to a woman who had a full-time job with absolutely no flexibility. She needed more flexibility. She left and she found another job where she is working three days a week and she's working closer to home. She got rid of the commute and she's making 60 percent more than she was in the full-time job.

BOBBI REBELL:
So it's a question of finding the right job that values your skills. You also talk about something called a Type E, and this is important because I know a lot of our listeners are very interested in having their own business and being entrepreneurs. But it's important to make sure that's the right fit for you.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
That's right. When you're thinking about flexibility, what could be more flexible than being your own boss? So I find that lots of women think about, have these Walter Mitty dreams of starting this business or that business. The fact is that you have to be the entrepreneurial profile and the entrepreneurial profile is working 24/7 because there's nobody else to make this business work other than you, especially in the early stages before you might hire people. The other thing is that you have to wear so many hats.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
So if you have a dream to be a marketing consultant and you really love marketing, well, you might love that marketing discipline, but you probably or you may not love sales. Any job, any business that you develop, you've got to be a salesperson. And lots of people thinking about having their own business will tell me, "Well, I don't like sales. I never wanted to be a salesperson."

BOBBI REBELL:
Everything is sales though, right?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Everything is sales. You've got to be selling yourself, your product, your service constantly. So you can't say you don't like sales and you can't say that you don't like financial stuff and numbers because you've got to work the numbers for your business. You've got to figure out how you're going to fund your business, even if it's a very small business.

BOBBI REBELL:
Tell us more about where people can find out more information about you, your book, and all your social channels so we can follow you.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
You can read more about my book on my website, kathrynsollman.com, and Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram can all be found under @kathrynsollman.

BOBBI REBELL:
Wonderful. Thank you, Kathryn.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Thank you. So great to be with you.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey everyone. As I mentioned at the top, Katherine is very tough in her stance on the fact that women must always earn money. And that comes from personal experience, but still, financial grownup tip number one, no judging. Kathryn makes her point very well. She did her homework. It's a really well researched book and I live by most of her advice already in my own life, but part of being a financial grownup is understanding that there is a human element to money and an emotional element to the decisions that we make and all the decisions that go around our financial lives.

BOBBI REBELL:
Everyone faces different situations and there may be many seasons in one's life when a regular paycheck or earning power is just not as important as other things. Don't get me wrong, we must all be vigilant about financial security, but let's not judge if someone makes a decision that, from the outside, doesn't look good. Sometimes, by the way, it may look like somebody's choosing not to work or not to earn money, but in fact, they may be trying and just not have been that successful. Be a friend.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial gonna tip number two. One idea in Kathryn's book that I loved was not to worry so much about work life balance, but to focus on blending. Maybe don't put pressure on yourself to turn off communication with work the minute you get home. It may work for some people, but it's okay if you give her child a bath, for example, and then you take a work call, and then you do story time. And maybe your kids stays up a little later than you wanted or whatever. Do what works for you to maintain your career path.

BOBBI REBELL:
And by the way, it is more than okay for your kids to know that you have other responsibilities and that paying attention to those other responsibilities may help pay, literally, for the fun things that you do together like your next vacation. Put them on your team, include them. Let them know that their good behavior and understanding when you have to do some work, even when it's supposed to be their time, helps the whole family.

BOBBI REBELL:
Katherine very generously sent along a signed copy of her book, Ambition Redefined: Why The Corner Office Doesn't Work For Every Woman And What To Do Instead for one lucky listener. To win, all you have to do is DM me with your takeaway from the episode. You can do it on Instagram @bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell, or you can even email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. That is hello@financialgrownup.com.

BOBBI REBELL:
I love talking to Kathryn. She has so much value to add to this conversation. I hope everyone checks out her book, Ambition Redefined, and thank you, Kathryn, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz may be a Financial Grownup but that doesn’t mean all her friends have been able to grow up. Listen to how she works to get them on track. Plus- the president of the Charles Schwab foundation also shares an everyday money tip about making it easier to give to causes you care about. 

In Carrie's money story you will learn:

-How talking about money with your friend can keep you both on track

-The 3 craziest ways someone has tried to make quick cash

-What Carrie's number one priority is when it comes to saving, and how she follows through with it

-Hear why Carrie believes participating in the market is the key to saving for retirement

In Carrie’s money lesson you will learn:

-The one thing every financial professional does to save money and keep themselves on track. 

-The easiest way to be a good financial friend - and a successful financial grownup

In Carrie's everyday money tip you will learn:

-The ultimate tax smart way give to charity this holiday season 

In My Take you will learn:

-Carrie's friend from her money story was making some crazy financial decisions, here's how you can be the best financial friend possible without damaging your relationship

-Suggesting financial help to your friends could be the best gift you give this holiday season

Bobbi and Carrie also talk about:

-Carrie helped her friend's daughter pick out a broad-based index funds retirement plan, check out if that could also be right savings plan for you

-Mutual funds, index funds, and retirement plans are something to start thinking about as early as in your twenties. 

EPISODE LINKS

For all of your financial planning questions check out Ask Carrie Columns on Schwabmoneywise.com

Follow Carrie!

Twitter: @CarrieSchwab

Facebook: @CarrieSchwabPomerantz

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Her daughter's about to go off to college, she panics, so what does she do? She signs up to drive for Instacart in her red, snazzy car, dropping off groceries at people's homes.

BOBBI REBELL:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together.

BOBBI REBELL:
I'm going to bring you one money store from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, friends. Let's talk about being friends. Are you on track with your goals, but see a train wreck coming with someone you care about? What do you? Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz knows all about it, and has solutions.

BOBBI REBELL:
First, a quick welcome to everyone. If you are just joining us, you are new to the show, so glad you are here. We keep the shows short because you're busy, but if you are commuting or have a little more time, we fully encourage the binge listen.

BOBBI REBELL:
Got a question? We are putting together some upcoming episodes to answer them, so DM us at bobbirebell1 on Instagram, bobbirebell on Twitter, or email us, hello@financialgrownup.com. That is hello@financialgrownup.com.

BOBBI REBELL:
All right, let's get to Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz. I feel like she is the friend we all need in our back pocket. Yes, she is the daughter of Charles Schwab, and she grew up watching her dad build the business through ups and downs; but she is also, as you'll hear, a fantastic role model and financial expert in her own right.

BOBBI REBELL:
And, her story is one that we'll all be able to relate to. Here is Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Thanks, Bobbi, so glad to be here.

BOBBI REBELL:
I am so honored to have you, because you are so accomplished in your own right, even though you get talked about a lot as the daughter of Charles Schwab. We're not going to talk about him.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
No.

BOBBI REBELL:
We're only going to talk about you. You are President of the Charles Schwab Foundation, and this is what really we bonded over, is that we are both certified Financial Planners, so you know your stuff.

BOBBI REBELL:
You got a lot of other letters after your name, but that's the one that is most special to me, so-

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I think so, too. We worked hard, didn't we, Bobbi?

BOBBI REBELL:
We did. That is one hard test, so-

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Yeah, yeah.

BOBBI REBELL:
Big pats on the back to us, and kudos to all the CFPs out there who are doing a lot to support people's financial goals, and to act as fiduciaries, which is a really important thing, as well.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Yeah, and you know, Bobbi, this is how, again, you bring it up. Here we are, two women, and we need so many more women in our field, and I don't think people realize that this is not a field of match, or stem, or whatever.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
It's about helping people achieve financial security, and I think that we absolutely need more women in the industry to help people achieve that.

BOBBI REBELL:
Absolutely, and it's also important to be helping our friends, but that's not always an easy thing to do, which brings us to the money story that you're going to share.

BOBBI REBELL:
This is one of the most compelling stories that I have heard yet, because it really goes to the heart of what challenges us when it comes to money, and that is the human side.

BOBBI REBELL:
Tell us your money story, Carrie.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Well, this one's a hard one to share. One of my oldest childhood friends, who I love, she's like a sister to me. She's always struggled with money, always worked, and so forth; so I really respect her financial independence, but she didn't always make good decisions.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
You know? She's not always prioritizing how to spend her earnings. She's a lawyer, by the way, and the one story that just confused me a little bit is ... She has a daughter that went on to college, and she was ... She had been saving for her daughter's college education, but I guess she didn't quite have enough money, and she panicked.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
My girlfriend had been driving a Tesla, much to my chagrin.

BOBBI REBELL:
For those that don't know, what do Teslas go for about? Are they over $100000?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I think they're about $90000. Yeah, I imagine ... Definitely not in my budget. And so, she's driving these $90000, her daughter's about to go off to college, she panics, so what does she do? She signs up to drive for Instacart in her red, snazzy car, dropping off groceries at people's homes.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I had to think to myself, “What's with this?” You know? “Tesla and driving for Instacart? Where are our priorities?”

BOBBI REBELL:
What do you do as a friend when you see a friend making what in your mind are irrational money decisions?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
You know, that's a hard conversation to have, I have to tell you. And, she has had this tendency ... I'll tell you another little story about her. She would buy tickets, like the Rolling Stones would come to town, buy expensive tickets in hopes that she could sell them for a profit.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
And, guess what? She can't sell them, so she comes to me and my sister in hopes we'll buy them.

BOBBI REBELL:
Oh, my goodness.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Yeah, so I just finally ... I had to have some words and some tough love conversations with her, but, you know, the Tesla one, the most recent one ... she kind of knows how I feel. I just have to smile, and grin, and bear it.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
You know, “Why didn't you just get a Prius?” Because she wanted to go across the bridge, I guess you couldn't go through the fast lane, and so forth; but I would not say there's an easy conversation.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I would say I have little conversations along the way, about the importance of having your priorities straight, and really making number one priority, saving and investing for your retirement.

BOBBI REBELL:
I'm curious, do people come to you, your friends, informally for advice all the time? Kind of like the doctor that goes to parties and everyone says, “Oh, I've got this little bark here, can you tell me what it is?” Do you get that a lot?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I get it a lot, and to be honest with you, I so appreciate it. A girlfriend of mine, her daughter just got her first job in an investment bank, and I asked right away ... Specially for a young woman, I would say, “Have you started saving in your 401k?” And she said, “No, just because I don't know what to do.”

CARRIE SCHWAB:
She's in New York, and I'm in San Francisco, and I said, “Email me your options at your 401k,” so I took a look at them. I even consulted with one of our Financial Consultants who looks at this stuff every day, and we both agreed that she should be invested in a broad-based index fund that was offered within her plan.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
To me, it's all about participating in the market, specially for young people. When you're talking about retirement, you're talking about up to 40 years, potentially.

BOBBI REBELL:
Yes, we live a long time now.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
We live a long time, and put even more than 40 years, so it's so important to invest in a diversified portfolio of stocks, like a mutual fund, or an index fund. It's about participating in the market, it's not about picking the hot stock, or the hot mutual fund.

BOBBI REBELL:
Totally agree, so what is your advice, your takeaway in terms of being a financial friend? Admit it, you've had mixed success at. What is your advice for our listeners when they do see friends doing things that they know are not in their best financial interest?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Steer your friends towards professional help; and I would also say there's no shame in getting help. I tell people all the time that even I have a registered Investment Advisor, and even the professionals get help, because it takes the emotion out of it, it makes you accountable. Right?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Because, you know, you're showing up, you're meeting with your representative, and you learn, and you get better results. Give them somebody you totally trust, and then you can take it out and not sort of saturate yourself from the situation.

BOBBI REBELL:
So, Carrie, for your everyday money tip, it is almost holiday season, time to be thinking ... Hopefully we think about it all year-round, but time to be thinking, maybe a little more focused on giving to charity; and there is a way to do this where you often get more bang for your buck, as does the charity. Tell us more.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
The secret is a donor-advised fund. Most financial institutions have them. Schwab has one, I'm Chair of the Board, and basically you can open one up for as little as $5000. The way to make it tax smart is donate appreciated stock, that way you're not paying taxes, and you have more money going to the charity, and then ...

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Whatever amount it is, let's just say $10000, you get to deduct that from your taxes for that particular year. Then, you can take your time on what charities you want to choose from.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Basically there's a search button. We probably have almost all of the non-profits in the system, you point and click, put how much money you want, press “Send,” and we do all the leg work to get that check out to charity.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
And, what we find, is that 90% of our users say they give more to charity, because of the donor advise fund.

BOBBI REBELL:
Wonderful. Tell us more about how people can learn more about you, your work at Schwab. I love your personal Twitter feed, it's awesome. You really have great, inspiring-

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Oh, thank you.

BOBBI REBELL:
Messages on there. Where can people find out more?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Well, you can follow me @carrieschwab, and you can also follow on Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz on Facebook, and I have a lot of my content, my Ask Carrie columns, personal finance columns.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Or, if you want an educational site, I highly recommend schwabmoneywise.com. It does have my Ask Carrie columns, but it has lots of tools, and calculators, and information about every aspect about personal finance; and it's for all levels of knowledge around finance.

BOBBI REBELL:
Yes. I have been on the site many times. It is very well done, highly recommend, and highly recommend listening to you more. Thank you so much, Carrie, this has been wonderful.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Oh, so much fun working with you, Bobbi.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, everyone. Love how much you can tell that despite her frustration, Carrie really cares about her friends. Let's get to my tips.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial grownup tip number one. Carrie held back from saying what I would have said to her friend, which is, “Sell the car already!” I know that cars depreciate in value, and so it's hard because you kind of feel like you're losing money, but really, if she needed the cash, why not just downgrade to that less expensive electric car right now?

BOBBI REBELL:
And, while her friend was at it, maybe there are other things that she can sell that she truly isn't using to pay for her daughter's tuition, rather than be delivering groceries in fancy, red, sports cars.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial grownup tip number two. Adding to Carrie's advice, to bring in a third party for financial advice. Very often, the best way to help a friend is often to only be a friend. Bring in professionals to help with, maybe not only the financial stuff, but also when it comes to relationship issues or other major life crises.

BOBBI REBELL:
Not that you can't listen and be supportive. Of course you should, as a friend, but pushing them to make a decision that is obvious to you, and usually the world, could also backfire on your friendship and have long-term ramifications; because the truth is, as much as I think Carrie should have been even more blunt with her friend, and tell her to sell that Tesla already, every time the friend missed her Tesla she could potentially resent Carrie.

BOBBI REBELL:
And, it would take a big toll on their friendship, so it's really a delicate thing. I think Carrie had great advice.

BOBBI REBELL:
Thanks to all of you for supporting the show. One way to do that is to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, aka iTunes, or wherever you listen to Financial Grownup. I read every one, and they are truly appreciated.

BOBBI REBELL:
Also appreciated, Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz, whose great story of friendship and money really helped bring us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Boreland Group Founder and CEO Jennefer Witter learned early on that the best way to get clients was to offer extreme value. But to stay in business, and continue to serve the clients, the author of the Little Book of Big PR also learned when to put the brakes on the discounts. 

In Jennefer’s money story you will learn:

-How to utilize a current network to create a new one

-Why Jennefer values transparency with her clients and how it helped her build a business

-Ways to find out what to charge new clients

In Jennefer’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to create meaningful relationships with new clients

-Three ways to look at the return on investment

-Why Jennefer always sets a definite stop date with her clients

In Jennefer's everyday money tip you will learn:

-The one question Jennefer asks that saves her small business big bucks

-Why it's good to be aggressive in business negotiations

In My Take you will learn:

-Take an angle that makes you eligible for discounts

-Why sometimes working for free has the biggest pay off

Bobbi and Jennefer also talk about:

-Jennefer mentioned that she gets a small business discount for ProfNet, which helps her public relations company get leads

EPISODE LINKS:

Jennefer's book is available online here

Check out The Boreland Group's website here

Follow Jennefer! 

Twitter: @JenneferTBG

Linked In: @Jennefer Witter

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Jennefer W.:
It was a six month program, and yes I invested, when you added up over $10,000, but what I got back through that $10,000, was multiples in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to, Financial Grownup, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of, How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grown-up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story, from a financial grown-up, one lesson, and then, my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grown-up friends. Every business, or pretty much every business, I would think, starts as a start-up, and every business has to get that very first sale, and that very first client, and to make it happen, in most cases, that first client, that first sale, the business owner has to be willing to lose money on the bet, that they will win over that first client, and build from there, but many businesses make a mistake, in that, they don't really set the expectations right, and then when they do have to raise the price, so that they can actually make money, they get backlash, because the client's expectations were not aligned with the realities of the business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Our guest, public relations whiz, Jennefer Witter, who is the head of, The Boreland Group, and by the way, literally, wrote the book on PR. It's called, The Little Book of Big PR, was careful in her approach at that delicate start-up stage, and it has served her well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. We have a lot of new listeners, that we are very excited about. The show's are short, about 15 minutes, because you're busy, but of course, you can binge, stack a few together. Maybe if you're commuting, have a little more time to listen. Consider it flextime for podcasts, and with that, let's get to our amazing guest. Here is Jennefer Witter.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Jennefer Witter. You are a financial grown-up. Welcome to the podcast.

Jennefer W.:
I am so thrilled to be on, Bobbi. How are you?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm excited to finally snag you. You are one busy lady. You are, the CEO and Founder of the boutique, Boreland Group, and you're also the author of a book that I loved reading, 'cause I'm kind of on the other side of it. It's The Little Book of Big PR, which is awesome, and it really is a little book.

Jennefer W.:
It's a tiny little book. It's a paperback, softcover. You can also get it as an e-book, and I wanted it to be little, because you know what it's like as an entrepreneur.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Jennefer W.:
You have some things on your desk. You have to do this. You have to do that. You don't want to be reading, War and Peace.

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Jennefer W.:
So, with the full book of Big PR, the full title is, The Little Book of Big PR: 100+ Quick Tips to Get Your Small Business Noticed, is you can read a chapter here, a chapter there, or you can read it all at once, and it will not take you more than a couple of hours to read it, and you walk away with information that you can readily use in your business practice.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that, and you are an entrepreneur. Your business has grown, but when it first started, you had to make some difficult choices, and we always say, "Don't undervalue yourself. Don't give away services for free, but it's kind of complicated." Tell us your mini story.

Jennefer W.:
Well, here's the thing. When I first started The Boreland Group, it was 15 years ago. I really didn't think about becoming an entrepreneur. So, when I decided to do it, it was just like, "You know what? I don't have clients. I don't have any income coming in."

Jennefer W.:
So, I reached out to everybody that I knew, and I said, "Do you know of somebody, who is looking for a boutique public relations firm?" And I got one response back, after sending out like 200 emails, and it was a friend of mine, and he said, "I have a friend, who's sister-in-law is looking for a publicist." And when I met with her, she did not want to pay what I was charging at that time, and so, what I decided to do was invest, because I only was going to have one client, and I knew that once I got that one client, once I got that chance, I would have those doors open.

Jennefer W.:
So, what I did was, she paid me [crosstalk 00:04:20].

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Let me just stop you there. So, you say what you were charging, but the truth is, you were charging no one because you had no clients.

Jennefer W.:
No. No clients.

Bobbi Rebell:
This was your first client. Right. So, you had an idea of what you wanted to charge, but you didn't have a rate that you were getting. So, you needed to start building your client roster.

Jennefer W.:
Oh, absolutely, and so what I did with this one client was, and I'll give everything as transparent. I charged her $1,800.00 a month. One thousand, eight hundred dollars, and then, I invested another $1,800.00 into her. So, it normally would have been $3,600.00, but I was only getting back $1,800.00.

Jennefer W.:
Now, you may say, "You're giving away your services." And I absolutely was, but I knew that once people saw what I was doing, getting her into the media, getting her speaking opportunities, that I would be able to build upon this client that I had, into a client portfolio, and after [crosstalk 00:05:16].

Bobbi Rebell:
Was this client, Jennifer, let me ask you, was she aware? Did she really only have budget for $1,800.00, and was she aware that she was getting, quote, double the value of what you felt you should be paid?

Jennefer W.:
Oh, she was absolutely aware, and what I told her was, for this first six months, I would charge her $1,800.00, and at the end of the six months, it would go up to the $3,600.00. So, she was fully aware, and I wrote a program, and I said, "This is what you're going to get overall." And I said, "This part you're going to be paying for. This part is what I'm investing in." And I put together a plan, that was very tight, because you have to be careful about such things. You don't want to say, "I'm going to give you $1,800.00." And you wind up giving somebody $5,000.00. You definitely need to have parameters, that you don't sink yourself before you swim, and once I started to do that, and then I started leveraging, and I'd say, "I have this client. This is what we're doing."

Jennefer W.:
When I was meeting with the media, some of the media saw what I was doing, and they sent some direct clients over to her, and at the end of the six months, I did a new program for her at the full price, $3,600.00, and she knew that it was coming. She saw the work that I was doing. She appreciated everything that I was doing, and more than that, she saw the value. She signed the account. I got paid the $3,600.00. I had other clients, who were paying that amount, and my business was based on an investment, that I knew would pay off in the long run, and it did.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what is the takeaway for our listeners? Among young people, there's a lot of talk coming up in business, that it's really important to be aggressive with your pricing, and not undersell yourself.

Jennefer W.:
You know, I wasn't underselling myself, and you have to want to give, in order to get, and when you have zero clients, and you have the opportunity to get a client, who you know will be the foundation of growing your business, you need to take that step, and you need to invest, and know that at the end of that six months, or whatever timeframe you're going to get your money back. You have to look at the big picture. You have to be long term, and you have to look at that ROI, the return on investment. It can't stretch out forever in eternity.

Jennefer W.:
You need to have a definite stop date, which is exactly what I did with this client. It was a six month program, and yes I invested, when you added up over $10,000.00, but what I got back through that $10,000.00, was multiples in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is a great story. Let's talk about your every day money tip, because it also pertains to when you start a business, and you're the small guy, you still need to have the tools, that the big guys have, but they are expensive. So, you have a tip on how you can save, if you are an individual, or a small boutique business, and you have to be assertive about it. Go for it.

Jennefer W.:
Oh, absolutely, and what you need to do, this is what I did. I am a small business. I've always been a small business, and whenever you're going out for products and services, if it's expensive, you know you have to use it, but tell them, "You know what? I'm a small business. Do you have a small business discount? What can you give me? I'm not the Edelmanns, or the Ketchums of the world. I'm not pulling in like $30-$40 million a year. I'm pulling in a fraction, but what I am is a client, and there's more of me than there are of the Ketchums, and the Edelmanns, and the large corporations."

Jennefer W.:
So, if you go out there, and you are aggressive, if you are forceful, and you say, "Look, I'm a small business. I'll be a loyal client. Give me that discount, that I know that you can give me." Let me tell you, it works.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just so our listeners who aren't familiar, you were referencing large public relations firms, 'cause you are in the public relations business. So, can you give us a tangible example, of something that you bought when you were starting out, or buy now, and approximately what it would cost for a large business, and approximately what it would cost for a ... how much you can get a discount from, from sort of the list price, so people have an idea of how much you can ask for?

Jennefer W.:
Sure. One of the services that I use is called, ProfNet, and it's specific to the PR community. What it is, you get pushed about 100 leads a day, and you go through them seeing which ones are, that you can respond to. It's from reporters. It's from producers. They're looking for interview topics for the stories that they are writing or producing.

Jennefer W.:
For large companies, it's several thousand dollars a year. I'm not exactly sure. Like $3,000.00 or $4,000.00, and by making it clear, and asking for a discount, and saying that I am a small business, I got it for less than $1,000.00 a year. So, right there and then, I was able to save about, over $2,000.00, that I would have paid ordinarily, if I had not spoken up and say, "Hey, I'm a small business. I'm a solopreneur. What can you do for me?" And it worked, and I saved a lot of money, because of that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can we find you, and find out more about you?

Jennefer W.:
Well, you can always find me on Twitter, which is J-E-N-N-E-F-E-R-T-B-G. You can go to my website, which is The Boreland Group dot com. B-O-R-E-L-A-N-D Group dot com, and I'm on LinkedIn, and again, my first name is spelled funny. It's J-E-N-N-E-F-E-R, and the last name is W-I-T-T-E-R. No h.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there a story behind the spelling of your name?

Jennefer W.:
You know what? I wish. I just think it was a nurse, who spelled it incorrectly. Both parents deny spelling it with the e, and it's on my birth certificate, so it got there some way.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so funny. Okay. Love that, but it sets you apart. So, there you go. We're all unique in our own way. Thank you so much, Jennefer, with an e, Witter. This was amazing. Thank you.

Jennefer W.:
Thank you, Bobbi, with an I.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, Friends. Alright, let's get right to it. Financial Grownup Tip Number One: Jennefer does a great job asking for discounts, because she is running a small business. That is the angle that she uses. So, think about what your angle is. There's countless ways for you to get a better price, or a better deal in some way, on just about anything, work or personal. You gotta find your angle.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of my favorite ways to get a discount on something that I need, for example, for my business, but don't want to pay the full price, or can't afford the full price. Maybe it's not in my budget. I say that. I just reach out and say to the vendor, "That's just not in my budget right now. Will you be in touch, if and when you have something that's an alternative to the offering, or maybe you can offer me a price reduction, an option that can work within my budget?"

Bobbi Rebell:
I have always gotten a response, and in almost every case, we've been able to work out a way for me to become a client, because ultimately, that's what they want. They want to get you in to their system, as a client, at some level, and then hopefully, later on down the road, they can increase how much you're spending, because you'll see the value in the product.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number Two: So, here's the flip side of all that. The most important part of Jennefer's money story, isn't that she lowered the price for her client, or did some of the work for free, however you want to look at it. To get a new client, it's that she had a strategy to end it. Expectations were set right at the outset. So, let's just say, you're on the other side of the business that I just talked about, where you had a business owner like myself coming to you saying, "It's just not in my budget." And you work out a deal to get me onboard. The important thing is to set expectations to say, "Okay, we're gonna do this for one year, and then, in a year when you see the value and hopefully your business is doing better, and your budget would have increased, you're gonna come in at the regular price." And they're hoping, that I, the business owner, will see the value.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, it's important, as Jennefer did, to work with clients when they need you to work with them, but also have them recognize that they are getting something of value, that maybe they're not paying the full price for, and that the expectation is, down the road, the price will meet the level that it needs to be at, for the business owner to sustain their business, because at the end of the day, if you enjoy doing business with somebody, you like their product, you want them to stay in business, and to do so, you need to make a profit. All good things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another great thing. If you enjoyed this podcast, let a friend know. Help us grow the show. Also, share it on social media. On Twitter, I am at Bobbi Rebell. On Instagram at Bobbi Rebell One, and DM me with your feedback. A lot of you have been doing that, and it's really great for me to hear which episodes really resonate, and what you want to hear more of, and maybe what you're not that into. That's okay too.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love hearing all of it, and as I have mentioned on previous episodes, we are now gearing up to do bonus episodes, which will include listener questions. So, send them in. You can DM me on the socials that I just mentioned, or you can email me them at, hello at Financial Grownup dot com. That's, hello at Financial Grownup dot com.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of Jennefer's. She has so much to offer. Do check out her book, The Little Book of Big PR, and of course, The Boreland Group, and thank you, Jennefer, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grown-ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, is edited and produced by, Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media Production.

Behavioural Scientist and Good Money author Nathalie Spencer missed a credit card payment. Then she missed another. But she finally managed to stop the cycle after putting a grownup plan in place.  

In Nathalie’s money story you will learn:

-How Nathalie learned from the financial mistakes she made in her 20s

-The mistake she made that caused her to missed two credit card payments in a row

-Three tips Nathalie swears by so she never misses a credit card payment again

In Nathalie’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to find a balance between micro-managing money and forgetting to pay bills

-How automation makes financially growing up a little bit easier

In Nathalie's everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to treat yourself and your budget

-The little thing Nathalie does before finance meetings to put her mind at ease

In My Take you will learn:

-What happens after you forget a credit card payment and ways to fix it

-How paying and reviewing bills can actually save you money

EPISODE LINKS:

Nathalie's book is available online here

Follow Nathalie! 

Twitter: @economiclogic

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

nathalie Spence:
I missed another credit card payment. It's not even that I didn't have the money. It's just that I just wasn't paying attention. I didn't have the head space.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, Financial Grownup Friends. You know what old expression, "The dog ate my homework." For not paying your credit card, let's make it, "I just didn't have the head space," because, as you heard, that's all that was going on with our guest. She just didn't have the head space. Nathalie Spencer, not a highly accomplished behavioral scientist and author, had the money just not the head space.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. If you are new, we are so excited that you found us. We share money stories from high achievers, along with practical every day money tips that you can put to work right away. We keep the episodes to about 15 minutes, but feel free to binge on a few if you have a little more time today.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, let's talk about Nathalie Spencer. I was so taken with her book, Good Money: Understand Your Choices, Boast Your Financial Well Being. It is totally different from many money books that I have read, and I read a lot. I loved this book, and I'm going to talk to Nathalie about your unique approach to helping people find their financial wellness. Here is Good Money author Nathalie Spencer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Nathalie Spencer. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

nathalie Spence:
Thanks. Great to speak with you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Loved your new books, Good Money: Understand Your Choices, Boast Your Financial Wellness because you are a behavioral scientist. In fact, you work at the Common Wealth Bank of Australia, and you bring a very different perspective to money and financial education.

nathalie Spence:
That's right. Yeah, so the book Good Money is about the behavior science of financial well being, and what that really means is that we look at psychology and decision making science, and we try to uncover why managing money can actually feel really difficult but then also provide some practical tips for how we can get through that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you pay have been inspired by your own behavior in your 20s. Tell us your money story, Nathalie.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, that's right. So my money story is that I missed a credit card payment, and then the next month I missed another credit card payment. And the thing is that it's not even that I didn't have the money. It's just that I just wasn't paying attention. I didn't have the head space. Like everyone, I felt busy. I was working, volunteering, social obligations, all this stuff, and I just really wasn't paying attention. So, of course, I got slapped with a penalty fee and interest started growing on my balance. When I realized this, I called the credit card company to contest it. Somehow I could find time to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you had to at that point. You had to deal with it.

nathalie Spence:
Well, that's right. Yes. So I had to deal with. I had to pay for it. But also, I thought, "Ah well. I'll just see if I can get this charged reversed." But even on the phone, I could tell that just saying, "Oh, well I just wasn't paying attention," was not really a good enough excuse. So this was a huge wake up call for me, and there were a couple things that came from it. So one, I realized that I needed to start paying attention to my finances, and I did. I started to do so. But also it was that it doesn't have to be so hard, and that there are things that I can do to make it easier. So what I did after that call was I set up reminders. So then I would get a text message a few days before my credit card bill was due, and I also set up a direct debit. The direct debit was for the minimum repayment amount. So what this did was that hopefully I wouldn't forget to pay again because I'd get the reminders, but even if I did forget, I had built in the protection so that I wouldn't have to pay a penalty charge.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, now that you have a career as a behavioral scientist, what do you think was going on in your mind, if you could analyze your 20 something self?

nathalie Spence:
Well, I think it was simply I wasn't paying attention. Managing money can be kind of boring, and it felt like it wasn't top of mind for me. I was just going around kind of spending mindlessly on my credit card and not really thinking about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what are the takeaways for our listeners?

nathalie Spence:
So I think one is on a more general scale and that's that you can design your life in a way that you make it easier for yourself. So behavioral science can tell us a lot about our choices with money, and then when we understand how those concepts apply to our own lives, in our own context, in our own situations, then we're able to put systems or processes in place to help us, to help ourselves out really to manage money better. And then I'd say that probably more specifically that automation is so great, especially if you don't want to be spending all of your time kind of micro managing all of your finances and thinking about it day and night. Automation is just great. It makes easy. And what you can do is you can require a little bit of up front effort and cognitive effort there to make sure that you're automating something that you can afford in the long term. But once you start it up, then you can just kind of put it to the side and forget it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So let's talk about your every day money tip because I'm very intrigued by the term temptation bundling.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, that's right. So my money tip is for anybody that finds managing their money kind of a drag. If you find personal finance management a chore, then what you can do is bundle it with a treat or a temptation, that's where the term temptation bundling comes from. And the key here is to make sure that you resist the temptation and only do that when you are managing your money then. So, for example, my husband and I do this. Once per month, we have a personal finance meeting. Thrilling, I know. But what we do is we make sure that we go around the corner to the bakery and we get coffees and pastries beforehand, and then we bring them back home and we have a personal finance meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it softens the blow.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it makes it something that you're not really dreading because you're getting a treat also.

nathalie Spence:
Exactly. And it actually serves two purposes. So, first of all, it helps make the personal finance meeting feel a little bit more fun and less morning, but also it keeps me from buying a croissant every single morning because I know I can only get it when I'm doing my personal finance meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever snuck one, Nathalie, come on?

nathalie Spence:
Well, yeah. Maybe one or two.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Good Money because there's a lot of scientific backing to everything you talk about, but at the same time, these are really every day issues that we all have to face. So, for example, one thing that I thought was really interesting in your book was how cashless transactions can actually effect how we spend our money.

nathalie Spence:
Yes. That's right. This is really interesting because with new technology, so many people want our payment mechanisms to be faster and easier and slicker and from like a user design perspective, of course, that's a really good goal is to have these new technologies like apps or pay and wave or tap and go be very easy. That's great. It has a lot of benefits. But there's also a downside in that the less noticeable payment is and the less friction there is there, then the easier it is to spend mindlessly. So, again, it can kind of feel like you're on autopilot and just kind of going through and spending quite easily.

Bobbi Rebell:
And as someone who has never seen a sale that I did not like. I mean, the friends and family stuff that's going on in New York City right now is out of control. I'm so tempted. Why is it that when we feel that something is a bargain, I mean, it's so difficult to resist?

nathalie Spence:
Well, that's exactly it. Well, there are a lot of things that might be going on that retailers can do to get us to spend more money. One is that when you see the original price and then you see the sale price, what you're doing is you're comparing the sale price to the original price. So, of course, it seems like a fantastic deal. Let's say, I don't know, you're spending $50 on something that's marked down from $100. Well, it feels fantastic. But actually, if you hadn't see the original price, the question that you should ask yourself is would you have paid $50 for this anyway?

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know that we would have, but I can't buy something. I don't want to buy something full price. That's just so crazy. Why do we do that to ourselves, Nathalie? Tell us.

nathalie Spence:
I don't know. I'm a victim to it as well. But having the original price there can really tempt us into thinking that it's a good deal.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tell us where we can find your book and where we can find out more about you.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, great. So Good Money is available in the U.S. and the UK, Canada, and Australia at all of the major bookstores. So you can find it online or on shelves. And you can follow me on Twitter @economiclogic.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Nathalie.

nathalie Spence:
Thanks so much, Bobbie. Great talking to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. Love hearing about the psychology of how we spend money from Nathalie. The book really is fascinating in all the data and analysis of why we do the things we do when it comes to money. Let's get to my take on Nathalie's story though. To some degree, this is an easy one because I could just say, guys, automate your bills. But let's actually move past that. Financial Grownup Tip #1: if you do mess up, after you put the systems in place and automate, as Nathalie and pretty much every financial expert will tell you to do, make the phone call. Get the person on the phone to undo the damage. Credit card companies will often give you a one time pass, sometimes more on the fees even if it was your fault. So take the time to ask for the penalty to be removed, even if you were actually the one that messed up. Also, know how your credit works in terms of the interest. In some cases if you don't clear the entire balance, you may still pay interest charges. So when you make that call, ask exactly how the interest works.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip #2: just because you automate the payment, doesn't mean you don't open the bills every month. Go through the charges. I have made this mistake because the bills paid, so my stress. But then you go to check the bill after skipping for a few months and you realize that maybe you're paying something that you didn't realize, like a subscription renewal. If you catch it right away, you have a good chance of canceling. But if you have, for example, a kit's annual membership and then you miss the payments for a few months, it is a tougher argument to make. So automate it but don't forget it. And of course it goes without saying that you should be looking at those bills because there could also be fraudulent charges on there. Sometimes criminals will test charging something with very small amounts to see if you notice, and then gradually work up to larger amounts. So it's really important to be vigilant and check those bills even if you automate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Loved Nathalie's book Good Money. Please do check it out. As I said, totally different approach, data, science, all that. Worth the focus that you do need to have. This is not a quick, easy page turner. This is a deep book, and it has a lot of pictures so it makes it really interesting. And the illustrations are good. But this is science. This is the real deal. I love this book. You can tell. You get out of it what you put into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So thank you for your candor, Nathalie, with your story. Thank you for helping us understand how and why we spend the way we do, and, of course, thank you for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Steward and is a BRK Media production.

Entrepreneur and Investor Barbara Corcoran explains why she believes spending money in a deliberate way even before you earn it is a smart business strategy, and shares the story of her first really big investment. And yes, she committed to it before she had the money.

In Barbara’s money story you will learn:

-How she bought her first house at age 29 (which had 8 bedrooms!)

-The importance of discussing big purchases with a significant other

-How Barbara saved $7,500 in three months

In Barbara’s money lesson you will learn:

-How she motivates herself to save money

-Why she chooses to ignore rational and take risks

-Her advice on committing to a goal

In Barbara’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Why she spends money before she has it

-How she puts herself under pressure in order to produce financial results

In My Take you will learn:

-Why it's always good to listen to different opinions and take advice from successful people

-Two negotiation tips that will save you money and help your career

Bobbi and Barbara also talk about:

-Chef Boyardee and Ramen noodles, the quick dinner that helped save Barbara money and reminded Bobbi of her childhood

EPISODE LINKS:

Listen to Barbara Corcoran's podcast Business Unusual here, and on iTunes

Watch Barbara give more business advice on the multi-Emmy award winning show Shark Tank on ABC

Follow Barbara!

Twitter: @BarbaraCorcoran

Instagram: @BarbaraCorcoran

Facebook: @TheBarbaraCorcoran

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Barbara Corcoran:
I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I start spending it even before it arrives.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, my Financial Grownup friends, brace yourself Barbara Corcoran is here and she is going to give it to us straight up, no beating around the bush and she said some things that frankly I was pretty surprised with. They go against almost everything that I've been taught about building a solid financial foundation for your life, for your business, but she made it work. I'm still not sure I could make it work for me, but I'm thinking about it because she makes a good case and I'm interested to hear what you guys think after you hear her interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
So glad you are here. As I said, this episode is a really big one, so if you're new, you're joining it a really good time. We do something by the way called flex time for podcast, the episodes are kept pretty short, around 15 minutes. The idea is no excuses you can always fit it in, make it easy for you while you're running a quick errand, what have you, but if you have a longer commute, you can also stack them. We have a library now of more than a hundred episodes so you can listen to a few on your commute if that's what worked for you. Make sure that when you subscribe and hopefully you are subscribing, we really need the support that you set the downloads, go into the manual settings and set it so that you automatically get the downloads so that you don't miss any and you're good to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we love automation because that way things just happen and it's one less thing to remember. Alright, let's get to Barbara Corcoran and you know her from Shark Tank and now she has a new podcast called Business Unusual, also really short, so that's a good thing. She gives a lot of advice that seems shocking until you listen to it and listen to her reasons and then think that is part of how Barbara Corcoran is successful. It's the unusual. She approaches things in a different way from the way that we're always used to approaching it and it works for her. It may not work for you. The big takeaway from this episode, which you'll see I'm going to talk about after her interview. I don't know if I could do it, but I can see how it worked for her. So with that, here is Shark Tank's Barbara Corcoran.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Barbara Corcoran you're at Financial Grownup welcome to the podcast.

Barbara Corcoran:
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of your new podcast. For many reasons, of course also because it's a short podcast, but you have the best wisdom and you share so many lessons from your life, so thank you for that.

Barbara Corcora:
My pleasure. I enjoy doing it, but it's a scary proposition as I'm sure you will know, you have to earn people's ears while you're talking to them.

Bobbi Rebell:
You do, well you've been earning it for many years and you're going to share a money story from early in your life, your very first real estate purchase or I should say your first house and it sounds like it's going to be a story, but there's something that happened that I think people want to hear. Go for it.

Barbara Corcoran:
Yeah, and it has a valuable lesson. When I committed to purchasing my first home with my first husband. I was about 29 years old. I didn't have a pot to pee in as they say, but we sat across the dinner table for a man who said he was selling a certain house that was like a magical house from what I heard, and my mouth said, I'll take it. And why it was magical. It was a house that anybody would think you could only dream about, which was a house with eight bedrooms two guest cottages, a wet and a dry boat house facing a brand new lake.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you have kids at this point, Barbara?

Barbara Corcoran:
No, of course not.

Bobbi Rebell:
Who was moving into this mansion?

Barbara Corcoran:
Listen, I figured I'd have fun with friends, but I had no rights saying we'll take it to which my husband was more startled than I was over my own mouth. Because we didn't have a dime to our name, we were struggling to just meet our bills. We're still kind of kids coming up the ranks, but-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so tell me what happened. How did you buy the house?

Barbara Corcoran:
Once I said we'd buy the house, we had the problem of coming up with the down payment, 7,500. And so my husband and I started eating tomato noodles every night that I think they're chef Boyardee or something in a can and bring them lunch every day and we saved every penny of what we were earning in our lives, short of the rent we had to pay for our studio apartment. Well, three months hence we had most of the down payment but not quite and we're out for dinner with the same big boss of his and he mentioned that his father, he wanted to close, which was putting ... Was scaring me to death because I still didn't have enough money.

Barbara Corcoran:
But he said his father was reluctant to leave the house and I volunteered. Well, why don't you let your father stay there, but in trade for that, I got four months extra time. So we were able to save the down payment of $7,500. No problem. But when we got to the closing, the closing costs too, which I didn't have, but he was so in dear to us for keeping his elderly dad in the house that he paid for the closing costs for us. And we moved into that beautiful house and we had it for seven years until I decided to leave my husband and he got the house.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why did that happen? How did you let that happen?

Barbara Corcoran:
You know why? Because I got the apartment in the city by then we had bought a one bedroom apartment in the city and I sold that one bedroom that I paid $80,000 for two years later for 250. And he sold that house that we had paid $75,000 for two years after our divorce for $75,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Barbara Corcoran:
I'm a believer in always committing throwing it out there and say I'm going to do it. Because when you have that kind of pressure and you've publicly committed, you find a way to get there. If you can commit to something, you'll find a way of getting there. If I had said, give me a couple of months, let me see if I could save for the house, believe me, my rational side would have kicked in and said, what are you doing? But because I said I would, I found a way that could do it and that's the truth, and most people are better than they think. If they're willing to be courageous enough to state it as low as fact and then make it happen versus the other way around.

Bobbi Rebell:
And eat a lot of canned noodles.

Barbara Corcoran:
Oh yeah,[inaudible 00:06:40] Yeah, you can do anything if you know it's temporary.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us your everyday money tip because this is also a real Barber tip because this is something that works for you may not work for other people, but it is a strategy that people might want to consider. Again, for you it works it may not be for everyone. Go for it.

Barbara Corcoran:
It's a particularly good strategy if you're out to those your own business, and I'll tell you why. My strategy is this. I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I started spending it even before it arrives. The reason for that is I have no choice but to actually make it happen whatever I'm doing. Because I know I've already committed the money. It's like putting a gun to your own head where you have to produce. If instead you wait for the money to come in and then say, okay, I've got this little extra cash. We've had a profit this month. Let's see the best use of it. That sounds rational, but I'm telling you the fever with which you attacked the best use of it is nothing compared to knowing that the bank is going to come in and chop your head off if you don't produce.

Barbara Corcoran:
So. I've always consistently put myself under pressure by spending money long before I have it and I've never let myself down. There's something magical that happens in the universe when you really under fire when you have no choice that you find a way to get there, and so I'm a big spender and on top of that I can also say, although I was born a poor kid and have my thousand dollar loan from my boyfriend, thank God, or we have been able to quit my waitress job and starting a business nowhere. Okay.

Barbara Corcoran:
But once I had that thousand dollars, I just thought, you know what? This is found money. It's a gift from God and I'm just gonna run this thing up the flag pole until somebody stops me and my most assured policy of making sure no one stopped me was to spend money in advance of having it because I had no choice but to make good on it. I had no choice and ran like a devil with a limited timeframe and I was able to accomplish 10 times more than all my competitors simply because of the pressure I had put on my own back. All right, so it's not what you read in accounting book, but I can tell you when you're building a business, it's a smarter way to go than to be calculated and do it a step at a time.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's the real world. One other quick question though, did you ever have trouble and how did you handle it collecting those receivables?

Barbara Corcoran:
No, I wrote off about 10% of my receivables because you have to appreciate. My business was selling co-ops in New York City and we had about 10% of our deals that didn't approve the Co-op association. They were turned down by the board, so I knew what that average was the first year, by the typical may be the second year in business, I realized I lost 10% of my deals, so I just wrote off that 10%. So that was realistic in suddenly a good accountant would do, but that's where my relationship or any resemblance to an accountant definitely ended in my attitude to it and everything else.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. I want to talk quickly about your, still relatively new podcast even though who would know it because it's always at the top of the charts where to I'm trying to climb, but you're there and that's a lot because your podcast is so good. It is a short one, so dear to my heart, but you also really deliver personal and as you have here very honest and straightforward advice about your life and the lessons that you have learned and your bold with it. Your most recent episode talked about quitting jobs. You quit 22 jobs Barbara, you also talk about negotiation skills. Tell me more about this podcast and why it is so different and people are really responding to it?

Barbara Corcoran:
I think people are responding well simply because I tell it like it is. And it doesn't mean if it's the person listening, but I think they leave trusting that they heard the truth and I also think I'm impatient by nature. So if you're gonna ask me what about negotiation? Most people can write a book on that. I can't. I can tell you in eight minutes flat, what the key to negotiation, what are the key moves and what doesn't work. And really I don't have more to say after the eight minutes. So I think because I have such a short attention span and because I'm so impatient by nature myself and listening, I want to know what you want out of me and what do I gotta do. And that's pretty much how I am with everybody. Get to the point and then tell me how you get there.

Barbara Corcoran:
So I do get to the point and then tell you how I get there and then the eight minutes are up and I'm signing off. I wish I was more verbose and had more great delicious detail, but I just say the main things that worked for me and I leave it at that and my sign off until the following week. So I hope it works. We'll see. It's very scary as I'm sure you know, to merit someone's eight minutes. I feel it's such an abuse or a trust that I feel like every word has to really, really count or I have no business doing its own. I'm Mostly scared, I'm scared to six days. Then I do the podcast, then I get scared all over again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you're doing a great job. I don't find you scary at all. I love it. I think you're worth investing every one of those eight minutes, so thank you for all that you do. Everyone knows where to find you, but just in case because I ask everyone, tell us where you can be found, where people can follow you on social and what else is important that's going on in your life that we should know about.

Barbara Corcoran:
Well, of course it's a Business Unusual, which is the podcast, my newest baby, but as usual, any social platform @BarbaraCorcoran is very easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you Barbara.

Barbara Corcoran:
I love you back. Bobbi. Thank you so much. And Go back to your real name, Barbara, it's such a pretty name.

Bobbi Rebell:
So if you're like me, you want to hit rewind and listen again. She's that good. And before I get to the financial bonus tips, just want to make a little comment about the food because we spend so much time agonizing over all of this organic fancy food and when we're saving money, everyone talks about the ramen noodles. I want to talk to you about the chef Boyardee that she and her husband were eating to save up money because you know what, that's fun childhood memories for me. My mom was a working mom and you know what? Sometimes we have something called spaghettios. Do you guys even know what that is? It's basically this like circle pasta in a can and tomato sauce and it's delicious. It may not have any nutrition, but if you see spaghettios in the store, I have no affiliation with them. Pick them up and try them instead of ramen noodles if you're trying to save money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just for variety, be a little bit bad. Like I said, they're probably not nutritious at all. All right, let's talk about my tips. Finance grownup tip number one. Sometimes financial advice like Barbra's goes against common stereotypical things that we hear. Here's the thing though, always listen to different opinions especially when they're from someone like Barbara Corcoran who has been so successful in so many different fields, to not only real estate where she started out, but also now with Shark Tank. She's an entrepreneur investing in so many different companies, so listen to her and give it some thought. Now I'm not telling you to go out and spend money that you don't have or even to spend on receivables, which is really what she was doing. It was money that she had contracts for but had not yet received so she believed that money was coming, but I see her point and I also see how that can create a really strong motivation so before totally rejecting it or even accepting it, play out how that would work for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
How are you going to cover things for example, if someone does not pay or if they pay, but they are on a delayed schedule so they're not paying in 30 days like your bill says they're paying 60, 90, 100, 20 days out. How are you going to finance that? You have a line of credit with your business. Are you throwing that on a credit card where you might be paying interest, late fees? What have you, factor that in. Are you going to charge a late fee to them? Barbara factored in that 10% of her expected commissions receivables were not going to happen so even she was doing that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, be creative and flexible. When you're negotiating. Barbara, let the sellers elderly dad stay in the house longer than originally planned. Again, you have to give Barbara props for being open minded and in return by the way, she got precious time and the goodwill was so strong and her gesture was still appreciated that the closing costs were paid by the seller.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is huge. Thank you all for being part of the Financial Grownup community. We bring this to you for free. The only payment we ask is that you share it with someone that you care about and that you believe would enjoy and benefit from the podcast. Your reviews and your feedback. I'm just going to tell you guys straight up there is really important. I read everyone, we don't get as many as I would like. There aren't that many there and I know a lot of you are out there. A lot of you are DMing me, which is actually really great. Still DM me, gave me the feedback, but if you can also leave reviews on Apple podcasts, that is also really helpful to get the show notice because that's how people discover the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you do want to also be in touch on social media, it's not either or guys. Follow me and DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1 that's the number one on twitter I'm @BobbyRebel and on Facebook, Bobbi Rebell as well. And big things of course to the amazing Barbara Corcoran, the ultimate Financial Grownup. Everyone check out her podcast Business Unusual and watch her on Shark Tank and thank you Barbara Corcoran for getting us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

In Frazer’s money story you will learn:

-How to calculate how much money to save before quitting a job 

-How to know whether you should to tell your employer about a side hustle

In Frazer’s money lesson you will learn:

-What are the factors that determine how much time and money goes into building a business

-Different ways to to save money before investing full-time in a personal company

In Frazer’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Examples of creative ways to teach kids about giving to their community

-Specific ways, including games, that encourage cooperation between kids on money decisions

In My Take you will learn:

-Why it's ok to keep secrets at work

-Ways to consistently give to charity

Bobbi and Frazer also talk about:

-How to find out what it actually costs to live your life.

EPISODE LINKS:

Buy Frazer's book Wealth Actually

Check out the Wealth Actually podcast here!

Visit Frazer Rice’s website.

Follow Frazer

Instagram: @Frazer.Rice

Twitter: @FrazerRice

Linked In @Frazer Rice

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Frazier:
I did not tell my employer because I didn't feel like they were going to be very supportive of me thinking about the name on the back of the jersey as opposed to the name on the front.

Bobbi:
You're listening to Financial Grown-up with me, certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be A Financial Grown-up. And you know what, being a grown-up is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown-up, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi:
Hey financial grown-up friends. Have you ever kept a secret from your boss? Like maybe you were about to quit? More on how our guest pulled that off in just a minute but first just a quick welcome to everyone. As our regulars know, we keep the podcast short, around 15 minutes, because you're busy but if you have a little more time of course, feel free to binge a little, flex time for podcasts, and I need to ask this, please. This podcast is free. We've done over a hundred episodes. The only payment that we ask is that you help us grow the show and the way you do that is by telling friends and encouraging them to listen and maybe even show them how to listen to a podcast. Don't assume that they even know. And of course bonus points if you can leave a review and a rating with Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen.

Bobbi:
Alright let's get to our guest now. Wealth Actually author, Frazer Rice is a wealth manager, who just wasn't that into wealth management but he kept his other ambitions a secret from his bosses while he worked on gearing up his new business. The big challenge? Figuring out how much he, meaning how much Frazier cost? And he's going to help us figure out how much we cost. We're going to do the math on ourselves as well. Here is Wealth Actually author Frazier Rice.

Bobbi:
Hey Frazier Rice, you are a financial grown-up. I'm so excited you're on the podcast.

Frazier:
Bobbi, thanks for having me on. This is a real treat.

Bobbi:
Congratulations on your book Wealth Actually. Now this is the subtitle: Intelligent Decision Making for the 1%. And before anyone gets the rolling eyes or anything, this is an important book. Because we talk a lot on this show about making money and paying off debt and all those things to get there. But once you're there, you wanna stay and you wanna grow. That's why I was so excited to get you on. So welcome and congratulations.

Frazier:
Well thank you and it's one of those things where the subtitle with the 1% part I wrote about what I knew. It was my day job to help people.

Bobbi:
Because you're a wealth advisor.

Frazier:
That's right. Make financial transitions and I think a lot of the lessons that are applicable to them, apply to other people as well.

Bobbi:
Absolutely and it's also really important from a family perspective because, and we'll talk more about the book after your money story, but a lot of wealth disappears after three generations. And if you're out there working your heart out to build a financially stable future for your family and your kids, the last thing you want is for it not to last.

Frazier:
And not only that, one of the things people really worry about and are concerned about is leaving a legacy. And what I tried to do with the book is take a look at a lot of a different issues that can attack that and that can frustrate people and the legacy they want to leave. Not only that but sort of helping them raise kids in a way they think will be productive going forward.

Bobbi:
Exactly. So let's talk about you first. Because you brought with you a money story that is happening right now.

Frazier:
It sure is.

Bobbi:
This book and by the way your podcast, which is being rebranded as Wealth Actually, is part of it and so much more. But it hasn't been, we joked just before we started recording that overnight successes, you know, take years to build. That's kind of what's happening to you. You've put a lot into this. Tell us your money story.

Frazier:
No question about it. So I was wealth manager for Wilmington Trust for almost 16 years and so what I did was take care of clients, and go out and find new ones. I came to the conclusion probably about two years ago, where I said, you know I want to be doing something different, I wanted to build more equity in my own brand, and I wanted to have something that was mine in a sense, I'm age 45 now, I wanted to look back when I'm 55, 65, etc. and say this is something I built and that I own.

Frazier:
One of the areas I'm particularly interested in is certainly in the media side of things. I had a radio show in high school and a TV show in college and I do a lot of different writing on the side, screen plays and I have a graphic novel coming out hopefully at the end of the year.

Bobbi:
You're busy, Frazier.

Frazier:
Yeah, no rocks gather moss with me I guess. But anyway I came to the conclusion at one point, I said, you know what, I think I've got something here. I started writing a book about my wealth management experiences and the way I think about it. And I started that in the beginning of 2017 and it was ready to go at the end of 2017. And my money story I guess, is I was looking forward. I said, you know what, I need to build some padding, or some bandwidth around my financial situation so I can really give this a go. I did not tell my employer because I didn't feel like they were going to be very supportive of me thinking about the name on the back of jersey as opposed to the name on the front. And also the idea of conveying media and marketing that I don't think trust companies or banks understand very well.

Frazier:
With that in mind, I said okay, I'm probably going to have to leave and walk out the door and be on my own fairly abruptly. I basically took a year of income as my goal and just said I'm going to be spending money on doing lots of other things to try to get the book ramped up, to try to get the podcast ramped up and a variety of other projects. So take a year of income, take a quarter off of that and that's nine months of expenses and that's probably a pretty good way of going about it.

Bobbi:
And where was the money going to go specifically to do those things? What's involved in launching something like this?

Frazier:
Sure. So from a book perspective, I basically set aside 40,000 dollars to get the book written and for marketing costs. From a podcast perspective I would say it's probably about 12,000 dollars a year in terms of getting the thing produced and also marketing it accordingly.

Bobbi:
How are you marketing it? What marketing costs specifically?

Frazier:
Well the marketing costs essentially are me both from a public relations standpoint, getting it out and having articles written and so on but also me going to conferences and getting the word out that way. I haven't really delved too deeply into direct marketing as it relates to you know maybe Facebook ads or something like that [crosstalk 00:06:30].

Bobbi:
What conferences do you attend?

Frazier:
Well the latest one that's interesting is ThinCon, but also Trust in the States conferences, financial services conferences, investing conferences, that type of thing, which I think lends well to the book, which targets not only the wealthy people or you know people who aspire to be wealthy or have various issues that they'd like to deal with but also the advisors around them. So when I wrote the book I kind of had in mind the idea of targeting not only the people who had money but also the people who advise around it, on the theory that if they liked it, maybe they have 12 people that they'd like to buy it and give it to.

Bobbi:
That's so smart because the idea of educating yourself about money is really becoming much more mainstream and a lot of attention goes to young people paying off student debt, as it should, but more attention I think as millennials grow up and get older is going to and as the other generations obviously also get older, is going to go the management of wealth because you do get past a point we hope where you're focused more on offense rather than just digging out of the hole. And that's a great thing because people need this kind of book.

Frazier:
No question about it. And one of the things I heard from a different advisor which I didn't really speak to in the book too closely but that I really believe in is the idea of funding your retirement as much as possible ahead of time. Because it's something you will do. You will be out of the work force at some point later in your life and you need to fund those years from age 65 or 70 on and if you don't do it early and use the power of compounding in your favor, you're not going to have as nice a retirement as you would have liked.

Bobbi:
So what is your takeaway for the listeners from your money story? From building this business?

Frazier:
I think the big takeaway is pre fund as many expenses as possible and be prepared for the idea that it takes time to build a business. It takes time to build a brand. You're going to have setbacks and to the extent that you can save up and have that at hand, I sleep better at night knowing that I'm not quite sure you know, if I don't know necessarily what my career's going to turn as out as a result of these moves, at the very least I'm not dipping into savings to fund current daily expenses.

Bobbi:
Let's talk about your every day money tip. You have a lot of exercises that people can do and this is one that I think is really valuable because as people start to become more successful financially they do want to be able to give to philanthropy.

Frazier:
If you had three kids and four dollars to give away, I would suggest that each of the kids be able to give a dollar away in the manner in which they choose. This is interesting for a couple of reasons. The first one, is you know it sort of gives them the idea that you know there's a good reason to be giving money away and it helps to further social causes. But from a parent's perspective I think one thing that's nice is that you get to see what is important to kids. And it's a nice data point that you can look at as you're raising your kids and you can see how they think about things.

Frazier:
The second part of that, I said you had four dollars and you know three of it is given away. That fourth dollar I think an interesting exercise is to have the three kids decide amongst themselves how to give away that fourth dollar. And I think that's interesting and a good exercise for one major reason, is that it gets them to be making decisions together. One of the things that I preach in the book is there are a lot of different threats to wealth, one of which is that family members very often their first experience dealing with wealth is when one of, either the mother or the father dies and they're making decisions about big money late in the game and a lot of emotion can come into play.

Frazier:
By using this shared philanthropy experience you get kids making decisions about money and learning about what's important to each other, ultimately going forward. And it's a very small thing, it can be done with very small dollars and it can be done by anybody, not just the 1%. But I think it's a nice little communication tool that transfers values but also builds communication skills and also allows kids to understand what they're strengths and weaknesses are before they have to settle on the state.

Bobbi:
Great idea. I think that's something everyone can implement at any level. I want to talk quickly about your book as well. It really hit a lot of marks with me because it does hone in on so many themes that are universal, no matter what your income. The chapter that stood out most to me is where you talk about what do you cost? And I think that's important at any income level, any wealth level, because we often cost more than we realize.

Frazier:
Oh no question about it. Basically you know when I was talking about writing the book with my publisher, one of the things I talked about was there are people who come from one strata of wealth or one differens type of wealth, meaning maybe they had a business or real estate. And then they're going to another one, they're selling something or they have liquidity or more cash than they were used to having. Or they're coming from a high paying job and then they're going into retirement and hopefully they're funding their income needs via assets. The biggest thing I preach to people is if you've won the lottery or you've become a first round draft pick or you've sold a business or something like that, understand not only what you cost currently and how that was funded but also what you're going to cost. And I've tried to do it in a fun way in the book.

Bobbi:
Oh you go there. You talk about plastic surgery, you talk about private jets. It's a little bit out of most people's leagues, the kinds of things you talk about but it kinda shows how you can have that lifestyle creep so easily the minute you start to feel a little more comfortable in your wealth.

Frazier:
Not only that, people very often just don't have a sense of the numbers around different things and I try to just crack the whip as much as I can to say look this is what things cost and there is a big different between flying coach and flying first class and then going net jets and then owning your own jet. Those costs are geometric and if it's your assets that have to generate the income to support it, you may have fun for a couple of years or you could have a real problem going forward. And if the market tanks or something bad happens to your business or there's litigations or something like that, one of the threats to wealth comes to fore, you could really set yourself up for a life style pull back.

Bobbi:
Tell us more about where people can find out more about you, your book, your podcast and all the things.

Frazier:
Sure. So the book is called Wealth Actually. You can find it at wealthactually.com. It's on Amazon, so you're able to find it that way. The podcast is on wealthactually.com as well. And then more about me is on my website, frazierrice.com. I'm on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, all the major social media platforms, so between that and Google, I'm pretty easily findable.

Bobbi:
Thank you Frazier.

Frazier:
Oh yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me on.

Bobbi:
Hey everyone, so excited to watch Frazier soar in his new ventures. Here's my take on what he had to say. Financial grown-up tip number one: he had a big secret at work and you know what? It's okay to keep secrets at work. As excited as you are about whatever side hustles or new ventures you've got going on, if the bosses think you have one foot out the door, you may not get considered for certain projects or even a promotion and of course forget about a raise. Why should they invest in you when they think you're going to leave? Don't do anything related to it on your employer's time obviously and don't do anything unethical. But it is definitely okay to be discreet and by the way that promotion that you could be considered for, because they see how committed you are to your job, when you are there, that actually maybe good enough to keep you at your job and maybe you don't start your own business or maybe you have other opportunities that you might not have seen at the company.

Bobbi:
Financial grown up tip number two: Frazier talked about strategically giving to charity. Here's a little more. When you're giving to charity think about your ability to sustain the level of giving for the long run. So for example, you may have had a great year and you want to boost your gift to a new level at a cause you really care about. And you know they could use the money. But then next year the expectation is going to be that you are going to maintain that level or you're going to raise it. Something you may or may not be able to do or want to do. So here's the strategy. You keep your regular annual donations relatively steady or climbing slowly and then if you have that really good year, and you can and want to give more that year, strategically give it in a way that is clearly for a one time specific project, like a capital campaign.

Bobbi:
Alright, thank you all for your support including supporting the show by leaving reviews. I said it before but I'm repeating it cause it's so important, we really do need them my friend. Also, be in touch on the socials. I love hearing from you guys. On Instagram I am @bobbirebell1 and on Twitter @bobbirebell and thanks to Wealth Actually author Frazier Rice for bringing us all one step closer to being financial grown-ups.

Bobbi:
Financial Grown-Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Tori Dunlap saw big dollar signs when she took a new job, but the red flags she ignored during the interview process soon created an impossible situation.. and a new appreciation for the emergency fund she never thought she would have to use.

In Tori’s money story you will learn:

-Why she regretted her first job out of college

-Red flags to look for during a job interview

-How trusting her gut helped her make the right decision

In Tori’s money lesson you will learn:

-Things to consider before taking a job

-Why it's important to have an emergency fund

In Tori’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to score deals on hotels when traveling

In My Take you will learn:

-How to start an emergency fund

-What to do if you don't have the cash for an emergency fund

Bobbi and Tori also talk about:

Expedia

Rockstar Finance

EPISODE LINKS:

Check out Tori's website here: https://www.victorimedia.com/ 

Follow Tori!!

Instagram @victorimedia

Twitter @victori_media

Linked In @Tori Dunlap

Transcription

Tori Dunlap:
She just looked at me and she goes, "Are you leaving or are you staying?" And so I said, "I think it's best for both you and I if I were to move on," and she goes, "Great, your last day will be tomorrow." And I felt panicked.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, so given that you're choosing to listen to a money podcast, you probably have an emergency fund, or you know that you should have one, and hopefully are working on building one up. I'll be honest, my family's goes up and down. It's not always where I want it to be, but this story, shared with us by Victori Media's Tori Dunlap, is going to lock into your mind why so many financial experts go on and on and on and on about that darn emergency fund. Special welcome to our new listeners, so glad you found us and that you are here and to our regulars, we appreciate your support, you're everything to us, so please continue to listen to the show and to support it by telling friends that you think deserve to live a richer life. Maybe do a quick screenshot and post it on social media, make sure you tag me at Bobbi Rebell on Twitter, at Bobbi Rebell one on Instagram, so I can thank you and on that note to our inspiring guest, Tori Dunlap.

Bobbi Rebell:
She is the force behind a new blog, Victori Media, which focuses on career and personal advice for millennials that, as you will hear, is already drawing a lot of attention because it's just really good. Here is Tori Dunlap.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Tori Dunlap, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast!

Tori Dunlap:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You came to my attention because you have been nominated at the only awards that count, of course, the [inaudible 00:02:10] awards, as best new blog and then I was checking out your blog and I had to have you on the podcast. So thank you for being here.

Tori Dunlap:
It's been so awesome. This is my first spin con, and obviously my first nomination, my first kind of finalist opportunity, so yeah, I'm just over the moon, thrilled.

Bobbi Rebell:
We are joined, because I am of course honored that this podcast was nominated as best new podcast, so we'll be up there with the newbies the two of us, hanging out I think. Woo hoo.

Tori Dunlap:
It'll be great.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. You brought with you a money story that I found a little bit shocking, but maybe it's not as unusual in the millennial world, I'm a gen X-er. But maybe it's not that unusual because you kinda just went with your gut. Tell us, Tori.

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, so I took a job for the money and ended up regretting it very very hard.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me just interject one thing though, a lot of the time jobs are about money. You should take a job that pays enough money. It shouldn't be just about the money, but money does matter.

Tori Dunlap:
Oh totally. Yeah. I mean if jobs didn't pay us money we wouldn't show up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly, so it's okay to take jobs for the money but clearly there was something else going on that didn't work.

Tori Dunlap:
Totally, yeah, so I was looking to get out of my first job right out of school and I realized I wasn't growing, I wasn't learning anything. I wasn't feeling challenged in the way that I wanted to.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of job was it? What were you doing?

Tori Dunlap:
I worked ... I actually ended up leading digital marketing and communication for this global security company, so my job right outta college, I was the only marketing, communication, or PR person for this 5000 employee company. So it was really crazy and I just knew being kind of this team of one, there wasn't a lot of growth trajectory for me there. So after about a year and a half I knew it was time to leave and I got approached by this recruiter who told me this job that sounded perfect on paper. It was a digital marketing manager role, which is what I know, what I'm good at, what I love.

Tori Dunlap:
I came in to interview and something in my gut just didn't feel right, the office was like half office half showroom. Everybody there, they weren't really talking to each other, there was only about 12 people in the office. But I'm a really social person so that was kind of a red flag for me, but I went in and interviewed anyway and I interviewed with the woman who was to be my boss and she was the CEO of the company. Within about 10 minutes of that interview she offered me the job on the spot, which again was kind of a red flag, I'm like, I know I'm awesome but don't you wanna ask me more questions?

Bobbi Rebell:
Were they desperate? What was going on?

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, that was definitely what it was and so I didn't know this at the time, but the position had been open for about seven months. So they were really looking to find somebody. She asked me what my salary range was, and I knew in order to make a leap from my previous job, where I had just received a 20% raise, I knew it was going to have to be another jump up, so I asked for 20% more than what I was already making, expecting it was going to be a negotiation, expecting she'd counter. And she just agreed, and she said, "Well this is 20 thousand more than we paid the last person, but we really like you and we really want you to jump on board."

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is really flattering.

Tori Dunlap:
Oh so flattering, especially for me, and a lot of us struggle, especially-

Bobbi Rebell:
How old were you?

Tori Dunlap:
I was 23.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Tori Dunlap:
A lot of young women, especially when you suffer from imposter syndrome, and so it was something that was validating but also scary and also just overwhelming and exciting. I went home and I talked it over with my daily who I'm really close to and close friends and I couldn't put my finger on why, just my gut was telling me, no this is not for you. You're not gonna be happy here, this is not the environment that you will thrive in.

Tori Dunlap:
But I saw dollar signs and I couldn't say no. So I ended up accepting the job. Went in, by day two I knew it wasn't going to be a right fit. I ended up leaving the office, calling my mom and saying, "Hey mom, I don't think I'm gonna be able to do this." And like all good moms do, she's like, "Stick it out, it'll get better, it'll be fine." It ended up just being a really really unhealthy work environment. I had really negative interactions with my boss, I was crying myself to sleep at night, I was scared I was going to be fired. I was tasked with these really demanding, overwhelming workload that wasn't feasible for one person to do. I wasn't happy. I wasn't healthy, I wasn't thriving, I wasn't feeling fulfilled at all.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is a lot more than just not being fulfilled. This is really, this is your life. You can't be in that kind of situation.

Tori Dunlap:
And I knew in my gut the entire time, my gut was telling me, "This is not for you. This is not for you. This is not what you want. This is not where you should be." And I didn't listen because I was dreaming about how much I was going to be able to save for retirement and like a New Zealand vacation I was going to be able to take and all these things. So I ended up having to quit that job. Basically because it was so unhealthy after about two and a half months without another job lined up, which is the ultimate personal-

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me about quitting. How did you quit?

Tori Dunlap:
She was kind of pushing me out. So I knew if I didn't quit first it wasn't gonna be good, it was gonna be pretty ugly and I didn't wanna go through that. So I had this huge project that I wasn't trained on, I ended up finishing it even though she was kinda rooting against me, which was a horrible feeling and had the project finished by 8:30 am on a Thursday. I went into her office an hour and a half later, and she just looked at me and she goes, "Are you leaving or are you staying?"

Bobbi Rebell:
She knew. She knew. Wow.

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. So I said, "I think it's best for both you and I if I were to move on," and she goes, "Great. Your last day will be tomorrow." I felt panicked talking to my family. My parents, of course, were really worried. I'm an only child, so they're very involved in my life and especially my finances and so they were really worried for me. I knew it was the right decision and I felt so much relief when I walked out of there at three o'clock on a Friday.

Tori Dunlap:
Even though I didn't have a job I luckily had an emergency fund, which is something that I really advocate for. I had enough money that I could survive while I found a new job, but I felt such relief being able to be happy and just leave and to not have to worry anymore.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm happy that you had the strength to do that because it is a brave thing. And it's scary. What is the takeaway for our listeners?

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, I would say trust your gut first off. Just understand that, of course, a job at the end of the day is about making an income but it's also where you spend eight plus hours of your day for five days a week around people you hopefully like and respect and with a manager who hopefully likes and respects you and vice versa. So make sure you're trusting your gut in any sort of situation, but especially through a job application and a job interview process.

Tori Dunlap:
And second, make sure you have an emergency fund, whether it's needing to get out of a bad situation in a job or needing to leave a partner who you live with or anything that is an emergency, you getting unexpectedly ill or you get a flat tire, having an emergency fund is so important to be able to give you the freedom to make decisions that you wouldn't be able to if you didn't have one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your everyday money tip because it's perfect for people that love to travel and travel well. Because part of growing up is not always having to stay at the youth hostel or the budget hotel, whatever. Sometimes you're ready to be in the grownup hotel.

Tori Dunlap:
We're gonna go in a completely different direction here. Much more positive and exciting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Much more positive.

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. But one of my favorite money tips that a lot of people don't realize is, you and I were both talking before, we really like luxury boutique hotels, for me they're just a great way to see a new city or to just get a different perspective from a chain hotel. But they're often expensive and people often use third party sites like Expedia or orbits to book on. And that's great, but usually what happens is they actually don't give you the best rate, and that surprises a lot of people. So if you go to the hotel's website or if you call them directly, they usually offer you a discount or some sort of perk, like free valet parking or a free breakfast because you're booking directly with them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because they pay those sites a commission, they have an incentive to have you book directly.

Tori Dunlap:
Totally. And you're supporting the local business in a way that you aren't if you're booking with Expedia or one of those other sites. So that's a really fantastic way to support that city, support that local business, and to also, hopefully, get a perk out of it as well.

Tori Dunlap:
And if something were to happen as far as needing to change your booking or an emergency comes up, the hotel itself is a lot more flexible. If you try to call Expedia you're waiting on hold forever and they're usually more stringent with their cancellation policies so you're not the hotel's customer until you're actually in the hotel if you book with one of those third party sites. So booking directly just makes the whole process way easier and then hopefully saves you money or gives you some sort of perk as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, that's really interesting that the hotel doesn't really engage with you until you're there if you book through the third party systems. I never really thought about it like that, but it makes a lot of sense.

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah, it's a great tip.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, so I am new to your blog, but I am also getting a little bit obsessed with it. Some of the headlines, just for people to know, alright, Five Ways to Combat Imposter Syndrome, so relatable, Four Lessons I Learned From Rap Songs, not relatable 'cause I don't listen to rap but definitely got me curious. And then I think my favorite one on there was 17 Ways to Be Productive at Work When You Have Nothing to do, 'cause this happened. One of my jobs early in my career I tend to be a bit of a workaholic and sometimes my coworkers don't have the same enthusiasm for their jobs and I would finish a story early and wanna just do more stories, just because. And my coworkers didn't wanna do that. So I would be left sitting there, kind of lost, because I wanted to do more stuff. So tell me more about that article and maybe some of your other favorite ones, and the blog in general.

Tori Dunlap:
I write about personal finance and career for millennial women, a lot of the blog content that you see is written by me, and I also bring in different voices so actually most of the articles you listed were some of my really great female friends who are also writing about career and finance and so I really try and bring in different perspectives too so it's not just me droning on and on. But I love talking about negotiation so I have some negotiating posts on there, like exact scripts to use when you're calling third party sites, kind of like we mentioned or when you're negotiating a cable bill or a phone bill, the exact script to use, that's something I really love doing.

Tori Dunlap:
Summer's over now, but it's good all year round, I just wrote a post about financial to dos that you can complete over the summer. So give yourself a three month period and they're really easy, really actionable as far as checking them off as you go, and then yeah, I just sourced one of my favorite articles that I've written recently, I sourced from Rockstar Finance, just a bunch of different texts from people about a way to manage your finances in under 10 minutes. So again, super actionable, easy to do and that was inspired by a post I myself wrote about 11 ways to better your finances in under five minutes, so especially for us millennials, if your finances are sort of out of control or it seems overwhelming, it's hard to get started. It's hard to start chipping away at that iceberg. But these small little things that you can do that take no more than five 10 minutes a day is a great way to get started.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, Rockstar Finance is another great website. So alright, so tell us more about where to find out ... where to find the blog and where to follow you on all the socials.

Tori Dunlap:
Yeah. So my name is Tori so Victori Media is spelled with an I, V-I-C-T-O-R-I media.com and you can connect with me there. Find all the blog content as well as all the social media accounts are liked to Victori Media, so I'd love to have you stop by.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you Tori!

Tori Dunlap:
Thank you so much for having me Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone. Let's talk about emergency funds, and if you don't have the cash to fund the three to six months many experts recommend, what do you do? Financial Grownup tip number one, if you don't have the cash for an emergency fund needed and want to make sure you have access to cash at a reasonable interest rate homeowners can get something called a heloc, that's a home equity line of credit, now you have to take this out before you need it. That's the key thing, but it will give you a financial life line if needed. And except for any fees to set it up, if you don't use it you're not paying interest, so it can just be there if and when you need it, and hopefully that'll be never.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, Tori talked about booking hotels directly with the actual hotel, I've recently started deliberately booking flights directly with airlines. I do my research and I google flights, and third party services like Expedia, but I actually try to book directly on the airlines that way if a change is needed or there are changes in weather, what have you, I found the airline is better able to help you if you're in their system directly. In general, unless a third party middle man is bringing you real value, there's no real downside to cutting them out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright thanks to all of you that have subscribed. The show is free to you. But for us, to keep at it, we do need your support, so please do all the things, subscribe, rate, review, and most of all, let people know about us by recommending to friends. And if you haven't read my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup, it just got more affordable because it just came out in paperback, so please check it out. And while you're at it, tell your friends to check out Victori Media, and thanks to Tori Dunlap for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK media production.

This episode with Her Money podcast host and Today Show financial editor Jean Chatzky is about getting the most value for your work. 

In Jean’s money story you will learn

-the impact her divorce had on her financial strategy

-how the loss of her dad changed her perspective on money

-the loss of her job and the career change that followed

-how to assess your financial needs, especially your savings goals

-how focusing on her money created emotional and psychological security

-her  post-divorce college savings plan pivot

 

In Jean’s lesson you will learn:

-how to evaluate your financial needs at different life stages

-which professional advisors she has used at key points in her life

-how to know what to charge clients for your professional services or products

-why and how she shares information about pricing

 

In her money tip you will learn:

-the power of automatic savings

-mental accounting and why it works for her

-using different pools of money for different goals

-guilt free spending

 

In my take you will learn:

-my advice on knowing your worth in the market

-why socializing and making friends in person and online is key to growing your business

-Why you must choose clients that value your work

-How to deal with clients that lowball you on price

-How to grow low paying clients into higher paying ones

Links related to this episode

The Today Show

Jean Chatzky

Her Money with Jean Chatzky

Stacy Tisdale

---

Transcription

Jean Chatzky:
We were talking about how much we charge for speeches and creating content for various people and various companies. In the last year, I've become much more conscious of sharing these kinds of numbers with people in my circle, because this is the way we are all going to get paid more.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was NBC today show financial editor Jean Chatzky, host of the Her Money podcast, and author of countless bestselling books, most recently Age Proof. The clip is part of the lesson that she will share with us, in just a few minutes, about getting paid more. But first, we are going to start with her money story, which has to do with a rocky time in Jean's life, and how she found financial security. Here is Jean Chatzky.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jean Chatzky, financial grownup, welcome to the program.

Jean Chatzky:
Thank you Bobbi, so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, and happy 2018, and happy almost 100 episodes of Her Money. Congratulations.

Jean Chatzky:
Thank you, and congratulations on the launch of this podcast, I think it's so much fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, it's been quite a year. I remember I think my second time ever as a guest was on Her Money, so it holds a very special place in my heart, and it's really just wonderful content that you're bringing to people, so thank you for that.

Jean Chatzky:
Sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
And everyone of course should check out Her Money.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you have brought with you a really important and compelling money story. Do tell.

Jean Chatzky:
I feel like I was thrust into the real world of financial grownups when I got divorced.

Bobbi Rebell:
And how old were you?

Jean Chatzky:
I was about 40. I mean that's when it hit, and it hit at a time when a lot of things hit. I lost my dad, who had been sick for a while. I got fired from Money Magazine, I mean they didn't actually say fired, but that's what happens when you get laid off. I had to take a whole new look at my life, knowing that I was going to be doing it on my own, knowing that I was going to be a freelancer rather than an employee, starting a business, maybe hiring my own employees.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which you have now.

Jean Chatzky:
Which I have now. And all of it caused me to really take a hard look at the inflows and outflows of money, at what I really needed. And most importantly, at what I needed to meet my savings goals, because when I got divorced, I started saving money like crazy, because nothing else made me feel as safe, and I was not feeling particularly safe in the world at that point.

Jean Chatzky:
And so it took the form of doing everything from buying a smaller house than I could really afford, and just shoving more money every single month into savings, to starting new college accounts for my kids, because the plan that my ex-husband and I had about how we were going to pay off the mortgage and then use that money to pay for college had gone out the window, to really taking a closer look at all of the bills every single month, and seeing what was not necessary.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you weren't doing that before?

Jean Chatzky:
I was doing it, but I wasn't doing it in such a diligent and type A way. I was saving up to the guidelines that I give people, but I just wanted to do more. That's what made me feel safe, was not shoes in the closet, it was just money in the bank.

Jean Chatzky:
So my lesson is a little bit different from that story, but no matter what stage you're at in life, we all need help. And I think asking for help, which I did during that period in my life, from financial advisors, from lawyers, from estate planners, from friends who had been through it before me. We've got to ask for help to figure out how to chart the right course at the right time.

Jean Chatzky:
And I thought about this lesson because I had lunch yesterday with Stacey Tisdale, who is another financial expert/journalist/colleague, who you should absolutely have on this show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely.

Jean Chatzky:
And we were talking about how much we charge for speeches and creating content for various people and various companies. In the last year, I've become much more conscious of sharing these kinds of numbers with people in my circle, because this is the way we are all going to get paid more. And doing this feels to me like we are really helping each other.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give me a money tip, something that you are using yourself, with your family, that is really making a difference, that people can implement right now.

Jean Chatzky:
Going back to what I told you about saving like a crazy person around the time of my divorce, I save automatically for every goal, even the small ones.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you separate different accounts you mean?

Jean Chatzky:
I separate. I am a huge believer in mental accounting for which Richard Thaler just won a Nobel prize. I find when you have different pools of money for different things, it's easier to reach your goals. I've got a big trip coming up, I've got that money isolated. I'm saving ahead of time, and it means I will not be looking at big credit card bills that I don't have money to pay off, after that trip happens.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it also takes away the guilt of feeling like maybe I shouldn't treat myself to this trip, because the money is there for that.

Jean Chatzky:
Absolutely. And it doesn't matter if it's a trip, or a handbag, or a spa weekend, or college. Just knowing this is the job that this money has been set aside to do is really, really helpful.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great advice, thank you Jean Chatzky.

Jean Chatzky:
Sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that advice about pricing. Information is power when it comes to pricing your services, especially as we seem to move more and more into the gig economy, not to mention side hustles.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm going to just expand on Jean's great advice about knowing what you're worth in the market and getting it. Financial grownup tip number one, get social. Think of others in your field not as the competition, but as your teammates, your allies. Spend time with your people. This can be in person, like Jean does, or even online. There are countless groups these days, especially for example on Facebook, where you can ask people specifically what do they charge?

Bobbi Rebell:
They may not say it publicly in the App itself, but a lot of people are willing to DM you with some actual numbers and helpful tips about what you can and should be charging.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, do not work with clients that don't value your work, aka don't pay you enough. Good clients want you to stay in business, that can't happen if you are in a race to the bottom with price. If someone does not want to pay the right price to work with you, odds are this is not the last argument you're going to have with them. If they truly have a budget that is still too small, see if you can limit the scope of what you're doing. If you believe they're going to grow into a client that can eventually afford you, make a judgment call. But make it clear that you are working below rate, and that the numbers are unsustainable and need to grow when their business grows.

Bobbi Rebell:
If it really can't work, consider referring them out to someone who does work with people with smaller budgets. They will appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for listening to this episode of Financial Grownup. We are loving all the amazing feedback. Please subscribe, share, rate, review. It matters, and is truly appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is a BRK media production.

Retire Inspired’s Chris Hogan had a taste for expensive food at the grocery store- and it was was thinning out his bank account. But when he saw the true cost of his weekly habit he quickly hit the brakes and kept the change. 

 

In Chris’ money story you will learn

-How Chris Hogan had money wake up call

-Why his spending was spiraling out of control

-How he curbed his grocery spending bill from $1500 a month to close to nothing

-How routine and habit was hurting his wallet

-The specific strategy Chris and his wife used to get back on track with their spending

-The crazy meals the Hogans had while cleaning out their food stash!

In Chris’ lesson you will learn

-Chris’s strategy to avoid mixing up wants and needs

-The importance of being intentional with how you spend your money

-How to curb spending even when you think you can afford it

-Chris’ saying: interest you pay is a penalty but interest you earn is a reward

-How to get debt out of your life

In Chris’ money tip you will learn

-Why he believes cash is the best tool to control spending

-How electronic payments can confuse you and cause you to spend more than you intend

In my take you will learn:

-While eating out can be a budget killer, eating at home can be expensive as well

-Be deliberate at the grocery store- have a list and don’t buy those impulse items!

-Don’t shop hungry

-Use apps like Grocery IQ and Grocery pal to help stay on track in the store and to plan better

-Avoid routine spends. But on purpose, and with purpose!

EPISODE LINKS

Chris Hogan’s website https://www.chrishogan360.com/

Chris Hogan’s book Retire Inspired

Chris Hogan’s podcast Retire inspired https://www.chrishogan360.com/podcast/

Chris Hogan’s Retirement calculator https://www.chrishogan360.com/riq/

Follow Chris!

Instagram @ChrisHogan360

Twitter @ChrisHogan360

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/chrishogan360/

 

Grocery apps to check out:

Grocery IQ

Grocery Pal

 

Here are some stories about Grocery apps:

8 apps that will save you real Money on Food- from Money

http://time.com/money/5095326/8-apps-that-will-save-you-real-money-on-food/

10 Best apps to save money on groceries 2018 from Frugal for Less

https://www.frugalforless.com/apps-to-save-money-on-groceries/

Best Grocery List apps article from best products;

https://www.bestproducts.com/eats/food/g1505/grocery-shopping-list-apps/

6 best grocery shopping list apps for iphone and ipad 2018 from appsdose

http://www.appsdose.com/2015/04/6-best-grocery-shopping-list-apps-for-iphone-ipad.html

7 Grocery List apps for iPhone and Android for best shopping experience

https://mashtips.com/best-grocery-list-app-iphone-android/

Retire Inspired’s Chris Hogan had a taste for expensive food at the grocery store- and it was was thinning out his bank account. But when he saw the true cost of his weekly habit he quickly hit the brakes and kept the change. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn the most important thing to remember when budgeting. #Budget #MoneyTips #Author

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Transcription

Chris Hogan:
You would have thought I was getting ready for Y2K. I had food in the cupboards, the freezers. I had food everywhere, but yet I was still every Saturday morning going to the grocery store.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. We talk a lot these days in our society about being mindful. I'm working hard about bringing that into my life in a consistent and intentional way, but we also need to talk about mindlessness especially when it comes to our every day spending. I love the story that Retire Inspired author and podcast Chris Hogan is about to share with us because of its brilliant simplicity. We need to hear this stuff and know that even the people we look up to when it comes to money have not always been the role models for money mindfulness. He became aware, and once he saw the numbers, change came. Chris Hogan, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Chris Hogan:
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's an honor to have you. I am such a fan of all that you do for people from Retire Inspired, the book, to your podcast, to all of your good teachings and advice. It is truly a privilege, and we thank you.

Chris Hogan:
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You have brought with you a money story about spending and the grocery store, which is something that people don't always realize what's going on there. Do tell.

Chris Hogan:
Bobbi, I had an issue. I wasn't being a grownup at this time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh no.

Chris Hogan:
This is back before I had kids. I'm now the proud father of three boys, but no kids, double income household. We were just getting started getting serious about where we were financially and what we were doing. I sat down and was looking at bank statements. I wanted to add up, I wanted to know where was my money going? Where was our money heading? I started adding up the different categories, the eating out, but the grocery bill. This was one that was jumping out at me. I thought, this can't be correct. I went another month back, and yeah, $1,200 a month on groceries, a family of two.

Bobbi Rebell:
What were you buying?

Chris Hogan:
Anything and everything, meats, cheeses, anything and everything at any time. Again, we had the money. We weren't hurting anybody. I went back a third month and added it up. It was like $1,500. I was like, "Okay, let's go back to the $1,200," and it was just too much. Then I started realizing something. I was making the grocery store rich, instead of me building my own wealth. That became my financial wake up call, so to speak. Literally, looking at this, we got intentional. We got on a budget, and we set up a dollar amount that we were going to spend on groceries. That was the taking control. I'll never forget, we looked at all the food that I stockpiled. You would have thought I was getting ready for Y2K. I had food in the cupboards, the freezers. I had food everywhere, but yet I was still every Saturday morning going to the grocery store. I realized something. I was shopping out of habit, not out of necessity.

Bobbi Rebell:
It sounds like it was part of your routine. That was your weekend routine.

Chris Hogan:
That's exactly right. It was the routine. Regardless if we needed anything or not, I was going and buying things because I could. Stepping back and really looking at that, we put some parameters in place. We set up a dollar amount that we were going to spend on groceries, but before we did that we ate the food that we had. I'll never forget, that was a grownup moment for us, really starting to take a stand because the $1,200 to $1,500 that was normally being spent in that month, we didn't spend it that month. We actually sent it toward our debt.

Bobbi Rebell:
The entire amount?

Chris Hogan:
The entire amount. We had $100 for groceries. We built the milk, and eggs, and things like that. The other stuff, we ate the things that we had. Now I'm not going to lie to you, Bobbi, we had some interesting meals. It was interesting. Ramen noodles with corn. We did some stuff, but we made a stand at that point financially that we were going to be in charge, and our habits weren't going to take charge of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to ask you something. Earlier you said you could afford it, but then you said you were putting that money towards debt. You could afford it in terms of cash flow, but yet maybe you should not have been spending that, clearly, because you could have put it towards debt, so your perception of afford has changed.

Chris Hogan:
Absolutely, it did, because my math changed. Looking at debt, it was one of those things that at that time we rationalized it, because why? Everybody had credit card debt, everybody had a car payment. As you start to look at it, and you start to run the numbers, you understand interest that you pay is a penalty. Interest that you earn is a reward. When you start to learn real math, as I call it, you start to see debt for what it is. It's a threat, and it's a thief. You want to get it out of your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson from this for our listeners?

Chris Hogan:
I'd say, "Be intentional." It's the lesson of wants versus needs, and we can get confused. We can want something so bad that we feel like we need it, but I want us to be clear. Set spending limits for yourself. Understand what you normally spend, but let's put some dollar amounts on there of hey, here's what we're going to spend on groceries. This is what we're going to spend eating out. Now you start to construct that budget. It puts you in control, and then you don't have to feel regret.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's move on to your money tip because this is one, I know what you're going to say. It's so brilliantly simple.

Chris Hogan:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your money tip for everyone that they can use right away?

Chris Hogan:
Right away, my money tip is this. Use cash. I know it sounds crazy, but I'm telling you, when you have cash, and you go into the grocery store with that dollar amount, it helps you stay aware, and it helps you stay in control. Now when they say the total amount is $85, and you count out $85 you are feeling the spending of the money as you're counting out those bills as opposed to with a debit card, the swipe, we don't feel the pain there. It's just this swipe. Now there's a chip, and all these things going on. It doesn't become spending until you balance your checking account. Use cash in those areas that you struggle in, whether it's eating out. Get an envelope, write eating out on it. Put a dollar amount in there each and every pay period. When the money is gone, you're done. It's this great reminder, and it keeps us aware of where we stand financially.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, Chris. Thank you so much. I want to hear more quickly about what is going on with you, and what you are working on at Dave Ramsey Solutions and at Retire Inspired. Do tell.

Chris Hogan:
Yes. We launched Retire Inspired in 2016. I'm working on my second book that we're going to have ready and available for the public in 2019, but I'm traveling all over the country doing smart money events where we walk people through the baby steps. I'm also doing corporate events where I'm talking about money and leadership. They can go check me out at ChrisHogan360.com, look at the events page, and they can find out where I'm at and where I'm going to be.

Bobbi Rebell:
One my favorite things about what you do in your books, and I hope you have this in your next book, is that you really as you travel you get so many unique stories that are relatable, or sometimes hopefully they won't be relatable because some of them can be pretty scary, but I look forward to hearing more of those stories. In terms of social media, always Chris Hogan 360?

Chris Hogan:
Always, everything, on Facebook as well as Twitter, Instagram. @chrishogan360 is where I'm at.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, there was a lot there that I could relate to and have definitely been guilty of. This is a case where I am right in it with you guys. Financial Grownup Tip Number 1: We think of eating out in restaurants as a big expense that has to be watched, and it does, but you can also buy quite expensive items at the grocery store, and have some very pricey home cooked meals, or even worse as in the case of the Hogan household, some expensive food just sitting in the pantry and the freezer. You have to watch that bill. It seems so simple, but make a list when you go shopping and stick to it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've heard this before, but I'm going to remind you. Don't shop hungry. It happens, I do it. I always buy more than I should and fall for the impulse items. I'm working on it, and you should too. There are a ton of apps that can help you to be more organized and save money when you shop for groceries. I'm going to put links to a few articles with suggestions in the show notes, but a couple to check out just here, Grocery IQ and Grocery Pal. You make your list, and the app will sort out and show you discounts including those for other brands of the same item. While it may seem like it's okay if you can afford it to spend that extra money at the grocery store, it's not always as okay as it seems. For example, in the Hogan's case, they realized that they could be using that money to pay down debt. They thought that they could afford it, but maybe not so much. If you don't have debt, wouldn't it be more fun to do something else with the money, or more smarter, to invest the money? Savings is a good thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number 2: Ditch the bad money habits that are just there because they're routine. Chris Hogan was shopping at the grocery every Saturday because it was Saturday. He did not need the food. In fact, he probably didn't have room for it at a certain point. This comes back to things like lattes. If you want one because you want one, and you can afford it, that's fine, but if you're just buying one every morning because that's your routine, think about it. Maybe you want to do something else some days.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to thank all of you for your ratings and reviews on iTunes. It is making a huge difference in helping others discover our new podcast. I also want to thank Forbes for naming Financial Grownup one of the five podcasts that is getting it right. It was amazing to be getting that kind of recognition less than two months after we started this project. Keep spreading the word, friends, and keep in touch. I am on Twitter, @bobbirebell and on Instagram at bobbirebell1, on Facebook. Check me out under Bobbi Rebell and learn more about the show at, you're getting the theme here, bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Chris Hogan is pretty much as grown up as it gets. I loved his episode, and I hope you did too, and that it got us all one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Dad Dave Ramsey taught Rachel Cruze the basics of money and staying out of debt, but that did not keep her from wanting to splurge before she had the cash to afford it.

In Rachel’s story you will learn

-The dinner party conversation that had her questioning her values

-What it was like growing up in the Dave Ramsey household

-The way she and her siblings earned money as kids

-The quote that helped her find the right decision to her money dilemma

In Rachel’s money lesson you will learn:

-Rachel’s advice on how to decide on whether to splurge on expensive luxury goods

-Rachel’s perspective on how to manage social media created wants

-How to live your age-appropriate life, no matter what your friends are doing

In Rachel’s money tip you will learn:

-The importance of being intentional with  your money

-Her monthly technique to create a budget

-Planning for taxes

-How limits and boundaries can help you take control of your finances

-Her recommendation to use Everydollar free app for budgeting

In My Take you will learn:

-How to live your age-appropriate financial life

-How to afford luxury items on a budget

-How to keep instagram-envy in perspective

Episode links

Rachel’s website: https://www.rachelcruze.com

Everydollar budgeting app

The Rachel Cruze Show

Rachel’s book: Love Your Life, Not Theirs

Rachel’s book: Smart Money Smart Kids

Bag Borrow or Steal

Use this link for RenttheRunway and you will get $30 off your first order (and I get $30 too!) 

ArmGem.com

Bagtropolis.com

MonLuxe.com

Bagdujour.com

Bagromance.com

Follow Rachel!

Instagram @rachelcruze

Twitter @rachelcruze

Facebook: Rachel Cruze

YouTube channel

Some fun stories on renting handbags:

I own nothing

7 places  where you can rent designer handbags

High Fashion Designer  Dress & Handbag Rentals- Worth the Money?

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Transcription

Rachel Cruze:
We went out to dinner with Mom and Dad and my mom was like, "Oh Rachel, I got this great new purse! You would love it." And so she held it up and I remember thinking, "Oh it's so beautiful. I want one!"

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So, did our guest go get that purse that she really wanted? I'll give you a hint, her parents are Dave and Sharon Ramsey. Yeah, that Dave Ramsey. But then again, her mom had one. That got you thinking right? Well, Rachel Cruze did grow up in the Ramsey household. At the time of her birth, her family was actually in financial peril, so the values and belief system that she has now came from years of hard work that she grew up watching.

Bobbi Rebell:
So anyway, even if you already follow Rachel Cruze and you're a fan, maybe you've read her book, Love Your Life, Not Theirs, this is a story that you probably have not heard before, and I'm going to bet you're going to want to discuss with your friends afterwards and really think about what would you do? Here is Rachel Cruze.

Bobbi Rebell:
Rachel Cruze! You are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Rachel Cruze:
Hey Bobbi, thank you! Thanks for having me on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all the amazing things happening in your life, not the least of which is your seven-month-old daughter.

Rachel Cruze:
Yes, I know. We now have two little girls in the house, which is just nuts. But yeah, so she's seven months now, Caroline. I mean, if you're a parent you know how fast time flies and it's such a cliché, but it's so true.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, it's so true. But at least now with all of our digital media, one major plus is we document it so much.

Rachel Cruze:
That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:
So we can see what goes on.

Rachel Cruze:
Thousands of pictures, for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm really excited to deep dive right into your money story, because it also has to do with parenting and sort of looking up at your parents and seeing all of their accomplishments, but then maybe translating appropriately to your life. You went out to dinner with your parents maybe a few years into your marriage? Tell us the story.

Rachel Cruze:
Yes. Okay, so you have to understand that I grew up in Dave Ramsey's household, okay? So debt was like a four-letter word. If you don't have the money, you don't buy it. And we worked hard as kids, we were never given money. So we were never on allowance, we were always on commission. So you work, you get paid, you don't work-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, you were on commission?

Rachel Cruze:
Commission, yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is something you would get commission for?

Rachel Cruze:
Oh gosh. Cleaning your room, feed the dog, running the vacuum, helping put laundry away, like chores around the house is what we'd get paid on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, so that's the world I grew up in. So you kind of have to understand that for this story. So, fast forward many years, I was out to dinner with my parents. My husband and I had been married at that point, probably about two years, so this was around 2011. We were working hard, we were a few years into both of our new careers and getting paid like the bottom. I mean, we were maybe making like 35,000 a year. I don't know what it was, but it was like-

Bobbi Rebell:
But age-appropriate.

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, totally! I mean, we're early 20's, that's the reality. You're in an entry-level job and that's what you're doing. And so we went out to dinner with Mom and Dad, and my mom was like, "Oh Rachel, I got this great new purse! You would love it." And so she held it up and I remember thinking, "Oh, it's so beautiful. I want one."

Bobbi Rebell:
Describe it, what was it?

Rachel Cruze:
It was black and it was the type of bag that ... I won't throw the brand name out there, but it was like the square, where it was stiff. Does that make sense? Like it held its form when you set it down.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. It was super fancy.

Rachel Cruze:
So nice and just beautiful, yeah. And I thought, "Oh, I need a new purse. I've been working hard for two years, right? I deserve a nice purse!" So we went home that night, and I went and looked it up online because I told myself, "I think I could buy this," and I saw the price tag, and I almost passed out. So like, "What? Oh my goodness. No, I don't have the money to pay for that." And I had kind of this pity party for about five minutes there, on my laptop, of thinking, "But we work so hard." And then I had to stop, and I shook myself, and I was like, "Rachel, no. Your parents are 30 years ahead of you. You're in your early 20's." And it just reminded me of the quote from Larry Burkett where he said that we spend the first five to seven years of our marriages trying to obtain the same standard of living as our parents.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes!

Rachel Cruze:
But it took our parents 30 years to get there. Yeah, so it was just that reminder of, you know what, when you're young, no matter where you are in life, I'll say that, but when you're being wise with money, sometimes it's going to cause you to say no to things. And it's like, "Okay, no. I can't afford that right now," but I'm saying no in the present so that I can say yes in the future. That I can make a wiser purchase later when we actually have the money and it's not a huge percentage of our net worth, which it would have probably been at that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, so it was just one of those moments of thinking, "Okay, I'm going to have to say no to myself and it's not fun." But fast forward now Bobbi, six, seven years, now I'm like, "Okay, I could probably get a similar type of handbag now and that's okay, you know? Because we actually will have the money now to buy it."

Bobbi Rebell:
Although you'll probably spend it on baby stuff anyway, but ...

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, it's probably going to end up going to like a big girl bed, which is what our two year old needs right now, so.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's good.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for our listeners here?

Rachel Cruze:
Just to remember that wherever you are in life, you have to be confident and content in it. It's hard in our 20's, when we want things. It's hard in our 30's, when you're itching to think, "Is this all life is?" I mean, every decade's going to have its own set of problems and issues, but you have to be content no matter where you are in life, or you're going to spend yourself into a hole and constantly live with debt, and with things that you can't afford and things that you really don't need.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, your friends probably can't afford them either.

Rachel Cruze:
Exactly. But on Instagram it looks like they can.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Before I let you go, I want to get an every day money tip, something you, your family, do on an every day, or monthly, yearly, whatever. Something real and tangible that everyone can put to work right now.

Rachel Cruze:
The number one mistake people make with their money is that they're not intentional. So my money tip would be, do a budget every single month, no excuses, do a budget. Because what you're doing is you're telling your money where it's going to go before the month even begins, and so start at the beginning of every month and create your budget and stick to it. Which means that there's limits and boundaries, yes, but it's going to help you take control of your money and actually get you to where you want to go. I mean, so many of us ... Especially now in life, I'm like, we're doing our taxes and thankfully I don't have to look back and think, "Oh my gosh, where did all my money go?" No, because we were very, very deliberate and intentional.

Rachel Cruze:
And it takes some mistakes and it's going to take a little while to get used to it, but give yourself a good three months to get your budget to start working and stick to it. You can download EveryDollar, it's a free budgeting app and it's awesome to help you get started if you've never done a budget before. But being intentional with where your money goes is tip number one, by far.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. And I will put a link to EveryDollar in the show notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Finally, tell us what you're up to. I know you're back from maternity leave, you've got your show, I adore the first four episodes so far. What's coming up next?

Rachel Cruze:
Yes, well thank you. Yeah, well the show, The Rachel Cruze Show, is one that I am so excited about. We did four episodes right before I went on maternity leave and we're actually finishing up episode one today, we're filming some of it today, which is so fun. So it will be out on YouTube and Facebook, so you can follow and subscribe to both of those, and it will be really just this 30-minute show compact with guests and content and segments all around how money fits into your life, but we have fun with it. I mean, there's fashion tips, there's cooking tips, I mean, it's basically how do you live your life well and be wise with your money all at the same time. And so it's been a really fun project to work on and one that we're continuing to do, which is great, for the ongoing foreseeable future. So I'm really excited about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I will tell everyone, they're really well produced, this is coming from a former TV producer. They are really put together very well, very watchable. You'll probably end up binging, so just leave enough time to invest in watching the episodes because they really are terrific and they really are put together well.

Rachel Cruze:
Well thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And great for, especially for moms, but really for anyone. Even cooking tips, baby tips, big kid tips, everything, it's just terrific. So thank you so much. And where can people find you, in terms of social media and all that stuff?

Rachel Cruze:
Yes, @rachelcruze and it's C-R-U-Z-E. So Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, I'm all there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Rachel Cruze, this has been great.

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah. Thanks Bobbi, thanks for having me on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, who has not wanted that fancy purse a friend or a relative has? We're all guilty of that. Even maybe we saw it in an ad or on social media, but as Rachel pointed out so well, her parents are at a totally different life stage. So Financial Grownup tip number one, live your age-appropriate financial life. If you're an empty nester for example, with a comfortable retirement nest egg, pun intended, and it allows for, say, super fancy handbags or some other luxury splurge, go for it. But if you are one of the millions of people just starting out your adult financial life, or maybe you're also new parents, or you have typical early-career income for someone in their 20's, maybe early 30's, and you have goals, like paying off debt or saving for a down payment for a home, maybe you have young kids. You have age-appropriate financial realities and that's okay, don't beat yourself up about it, you're doing great. If you really want a fancy handbag for some event, or just to have around for a little bit, you could rent at places like Bag Borrow or Steal, or Rent the Runway.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, social media driven envy is a real thing, we're all human. Whether it's a friend's vacation photos or they just always look so put together, don't make assumptions, live in your own world. That's something Rachel talks about in her book, Love Your Life, Not Theirs. So many young people are now coming forward admitting they literally do things, literally go on vacation, on trips, they buy specific items, to make their life seem Instagram-worthy. Friends, you have better things to do. And by the way, all those cool things may not even be theirs. You'd be surprised how many people are on the rental bandwagon, so maybe get on it. Or maybe just do without it completely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all so much for your support and feedback. I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, reviewed the podcast, it's amazing. Thank you in advance for anyone who now goes, hint hint, and maybe takes the time to write a review, subscribes and so on. And also, I really enjoy hearing from you, so thank you to those of you who have been communicating through Instagram and Twitter, Facebook and so on. Keep doing that, I'm on twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and of course go to my website, bobbirebell.com, and sign up for my newsletter so I can keep everyone posted on what's going on with the podcast. Rachel's story was so great, I hope you guys enjoyed it as much as I did, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Million Dollar Listing star Ryan Serhant, whose new book “Sell It Like Serhant” is already a best seller, and his younger brother Jack had what seemed like a brilliant idea for firewood a business at age 10. While the business went down in flames, the lessons formed a foundation for Serhant’s extreme success in the real estate and entertainment business. 

In Ryan's money story you will learn:

-Why he says he was not a natural salesperson

-How 10-year old Ryan and his 7-year old brother started a firewood business to make money on their family farm

-The challenges the boys faced including difficult customers, and uncooperative vendors

-Why they were literally left on the side of the road by a worker!

In Ryan's money lesson you will learn:

-How to deal with challenging customers

-Why you have to anticipate an be prepared with realistic expectations when you start a business

In Ryan's everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to use the faces app to motivate you to work harder for your future!

-The specific way that photo helps Ryan avoid overspending

-The impact that the failure of Lehman Brothers had on Ryan's outlook

Ryan and Bobbi also talk about:

-Why Ryan belonged to three gyms

-Ryan's daily routine and how can apply parts of it to your life

-Tips on how entrepreneurs can structure their days

-Why Ryan studies the top business leaders

-Ryan's Finder, Keeper, and Do-er system

-How many times you need to follow up if you want to work for Ryan!

In My Take you will learn:

-How to use the tips from Ryan's book Sell it Like Servant for both offense and Defense when it comes to sales techniques

-How to take Ryan's strategy of studying high achievers to the micro level and apply it to your own life meeting and learning from others

EPISODE LINKS:

Find out more about Ryan at

https://ryanserhant.com

Follow Ryan!!

Instagram @ryanserhant

Twitter @ryanserhant

Get Ryan’s Book "Sell it Like Serhant"

sellitlikeserhant.com

Check out Ryan’s Vlog! youtube.com/ryanserhant

Learn more about Ryan's hit Bravo shows!

Million Dollar Listing New York

Sell It Like Serhant



BIO:

Ryan Serhant began his first day in the real estate business on September 15, 2008 – the same day that Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy in the wake of the subprime mortgage collapse. While the real estate sector has steadily recovered, Serhant himself has quickly become one of the most successful brokers in the world, with agents under his leadership in New York City, Los Angeles, Miami and the Hamptons. The Serhant Team has been named by WSJ Real Trends as the #1 real estate team in New York for two years in a row, and the #2 team in the country, selling close to $1 billion in real estate last year. Ryan is consistently the youngest broker to make the Journal’s top ten list each year.

Ryan stars in the popular Bravo series “Million Dollar Listing New York,” which just wrapped its seventh season. On September 18, 2018 – the week of his 10-year anniversary in real estate – he will debut his first book, Sell It Like Serhant. When pre-sales were announced, Ryan was #1 on Amazon’s daily list of “Movers and Shakers.” As star and producer, this year he also debuted his new Bravo show, "Sell It Like Serhant," started a successful vlog (www.youtube.com/ryanserhant) and launched an app (Agent Empire: NYC). There is nothing Ryan can't do. His motto communicates his professional and personal philosophy, "Expansion. Always. In all ways."

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Transcription

Ryan Serhant:
We got into this fight with this one guy that wanted us to stack his would be in a strange way in his house around all the different fireplaces, because I also didn't prepare for how people wanted the wood actually delivered. And my delivery guy got really pissed off, got in his pickup truck and he drove off and left me and my little seven-year-old brother on the side of the street.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, that was million-dollar listing star and newly minted author, Ryan Serhant, getting real about his first sale experience. It did not go well. Thanks everyone for joining me. This episode is a big deal, and not just because of Ryan Serhant. He is a big deal, though. It's even bigger because it is Episode 100 of the Financial Grownup podcast. We are also celebrating being a finalist for best new personal finance podcast at the Plutus Awards. And, the paperback of my book, How to be a Financial Grownup, is coming up October 2nd. None of this would be possible without my amazing editor and secret weapon, Steve Stewart. So, thank you, Steve. And thanks to all of you for joining us on this journey.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, to the fantastic Ryan Serhant. When you read his book, Sell It Like Serhant, and if the title sounds familiar, yes, he has another reality TV show on Bravo called Sell It Like Serhant, you're going to learn more about this incredible guy. But of note, he says he was not a natural salesman. That came later after learning from experience. So, we talked about how he learned about sales and being successful in business. Here is Ryan Serhant.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Ryan Serhant, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Ryan Serhant:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And happy pub day, we are taping this on the day that you're amazing book, Sell It Like Serhant: How to Sell More, Earn More, and Become the Ultimate Sales Machine, is coming out. It's already a bestseller and comes on the heels of so much other success. Like million-dollar listing New York, and my new obsession, your vlog. So, congrats on all.

Ryan Serhant:
Oh, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk to you about your money story that you brought. It has to do with the very first experience you had in sales, which makes perfect sense coming from the ultimate sales guy. Tell us about the firewood and your brother.

Ryan Serhant:
So, I wasn't a natural salesperson. And I think it's very hard for people to be born as natural sales people. And what that even means, I could write a whole nother book about it. But I was a very shy and little kid. All I knew was that in order to be able to have money to spend, I had to make money. And if my parents weren't going to give it to me and if I was in school and was too young to get a job, what could I do?

Ryan Serhant:
We lived on a farm outside Boston, and my little brother was seven. We were doing a lot of ... my parents were kind of like cutting down trees and making way for pastures and things like that. And I just saw all these trees laying all over the place. And asked my dad one day, "What are you doing with all of those streets?" He was like, "Wow, they get cut off, they get sold off. They get turned into malts. It just kind of gets recycled." And I was like, "Well, we have fireplaces in our house and we get firewood, don't you buy that from somewhere? What if we take the trees and we cut it up and I sell the firewood?" I had no idea how he's going to do it, I was not big enough to hold an axe. But my dad said. "Okay."

Ryan Serhant:
He said, "What's your company going to be called if you're going to be a firewood selling company?" And we took out a little ad in our local newspaper. I think it was called Ryan Jack, because my little brother's name is jack, Firewood Company. I think that's literally what it was.

Bobbi Rebell:
Who paid for the ad, Ryan?

Ryan Serhant:
We did out of our minimal allowance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So, this was your startup capital costs?

Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, that was our startup capital cost. Because they were doing all this tree clearing anyway, there was a wood splitter that was already there. And my little brother and I started splitting wood, and we bulk it up into chords, and we put it in the back of a pickup truck. And then we would get the guy that kind of was helping cut down the trees to be our delivery guy to then go supply people with their firewood. And that was our first little business. And it came crashing down.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, that's what I was going to say. There were some challenges, things you didn't think about.

Ryan Serhant:
Well, I didn't think about customer service and how to deal with people who are unhappy with their firewood. All I knew was I live at this house down the street, there's a bunch of cut down trees, we're going to cut it up and sell it. What do you mean that there's different types of firewood, different types of trees, different types of drying, termites, all these things I didn't even think about?

Ryan Serhant:
So, we had some tough customers in the beginning, and I also didn't think about how I was going to get the word anywhere. So, I thought that the guy that was cutting down trees was going to help and just help us drop it off, we're little kids. But he wanted to cut, and then we got into this fight with this one guy that wanted us to stack his wood really really in a strange way in his house around all the different fireplaces, because I also didn't prepare for how people wanted to what actually delivered. And my delivery guy got really pissed off, got his pickup truck, and he drove off and left me my little seven-year-old brother on the side of the street which is random guy.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're kids. Oh, my gosh.

Ryan Serhant:
Yap. That was the end of our firewood business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, in the end, was there a profit or loss when all settled in?

Ryan Serhant:
Definitely a loss. I don't know how much we lost, because I didn't really understand what my time was worth at 10 years old.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Ryan Serhant:
And our capital cost was that one ad. We might have run two ads. I can't remember what they cost. Maybe it was 20 bucks and ad. It wasn't a huge loss, but it definitely was a ding to the self-esteem that maybe I don't want to run my own firewood selling business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Glad you moved on to real estate. What's the takeaway for our listeners?

Ryan Serhant:
The takeaway from that is anticipate and be prepared with realistic expectations. Just having wood to chop down and sell it is a very, very small part of actually creating a firewood selling business. So, you need to be prepared for all the objections and all the issues you're going to run into.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which are things that apply to all sales, which we'll get to in just a minute. I just want to get to your everyday money tip.

Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, there's something that I have in the office. That is a photo of myself as an 80-year-old man. There's this app you can get on your phone called the Faces App, someone just showed it to me. You take your photo of yourself and it realistically ages you, which is pretty crazy. But that photo is future Ryan. And every day, I think about that guy. Because I mean, it feels like just yesterday that I was that 10-year-old kid selling firewood or trying to sell it anyway. Before I know it, I'm going to be that guy. And everything I do today is for him. It's not for Ryan this coming weekend, it's not for Ryan next year. All of that is going to happen regardless. But I don't want 80-year-old Ryan pissed off at 34-year-old Ryan because he made poor money decisions or poor savings decisions, or he's just spent too much. That is my money tip.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is a great one. So, is there a specific ... Can you remember maybe one example of you kind of not being that motivated and then looking at that photo and being like, "Yeah, I got to do this."

Ryan Serhant:
Every time I think about spending money on things that don't need, I look at that photo. It's just like I ... and I don't want to sound cheap. But I don't need that many pairs of shoes. I run around the suit all day long. I don't need that many suits. Little things where I could have spent money and just because I have it or just because whatever, it's just credit, I think about that like, "You know what? I should save it, because compound interest is a powerful thing." And it's better off just being saved because you never know what could happen.

Ryan Serhant:
And at the end of the day, I got into sales business the day Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy, and I will never forget the pain that a lot of people went through at the end of 2008. And that's going to come back again, I don't know when. But it's probably going to come back multiple times by the time that I'm that old man in the photo that I have by my computer screen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book, because I'm learning so much. Not so much as someone that sells, but as someone that is sold to. So, it's quite eye opening, Ryan, the things that happen.

Ryan Serhant:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's kind of written as an offense, but it can also be defense. So, I want to go through some of my favorite things in your favorite things in the book. We talked before we started taping about your day. Tell us how a successful person at age, by the way, you're all of 34, you're always one of the journalist top sales people, you've been winning all kinds of accolades as a salesperson, and you're only 34. What do you? What's your day look like?

Ryan Serhant:
I start my day at 4:30, Monday through Friday. And it's just because I want to squeeze out as much of the day as I possibly can. I don't want-

Bobbi Rebell:
Are you sleeping at 8:00 or ... How much sleep do you get?

Ryan Serhant:
I try to go to bed by 11:00.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, you don't sleep a lot of hours.

Ryan Serhant:
Not Monday through Friday. I'll sleep in on Saturdays to like eight or so. A lot of people just wake up and go to a job or go to work, and they don't really sit down and try to game plan for their career. I only have a few things during the day that I do that I consider part of my job. Everything else I do is for growth and for my career as a whole to make that 80-year-old guy happy one day. And a lot of that goes down to how you structure your actual day.

Ryan Serhant:
And for any sales people who are listening, any entrepreneurs, anybody who really answers to themselves, I had to figure out, what do I do at 9:00 a.m.? Do I cold call? Do I go out on the streets? No one's telling me what to do. And so, I looked at the top companies in the world, even I was just one person and I said, "Okay, all just top companies have CEO, CFO, COOs, I need to have the same thing, even though I'm just one person. So, that means I got to do it all on my own, and not all the same time, I need to separate it. You know what? The CEO, I'm going to call the finder, because I'm not really my own CEO. But I can be a finder of new business, a finder of new leads, a finder of work that the rest of my company can do for the rest of the day. I'm going to do that from 8:00 to 10:00 a.m. 12:00 to 1:00 p.m., I'll be the keeper, so that's the CFO hours. That's when I would think about, "Okay, well, I've $10 to spend today. How many stamps can I buy with that $10?"

Ryan Serhant:
And I would think about kind of the financial health of my "company", which when I first started was nonexistent. And now it's really thinking about all the advertising budgets that we have, and the people and the moving and the salaries. And then the rest of the day, I'd spend being the doer. So, finder, keeper, doer is what I call it, FKD. So, finder, keeper, doer, and the rest of the day I'd spend as the doer, which is the COO. Sets operations, it's doing the work, it's doing-

Bobbi Rebell:
Which just a few can delegate more now.

Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, which now, the majority of my day is as the finder. When I started, the majority of my day was as the doer. I'd think for half an hour or an hour, because I didn't have that much to think about as to how I wanted to grow my business, I didn't have any money. So, that wouldn't take me that long to think about. And then the rest of the day, I put everything into action. Now, I have a team that can handle a lot of the doer work, and a team of accountants and bookkeepers that can handle a lot of the financials. And I spend 75% of my day as the finder, as that CEO trying to build the business.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing I loved regarding Finder, and getting new business in the book was your strategy initially, and I don't know if you still do this. I can't imagine you have time to do this. You saw that it was working to meet people at the gym, potential clients. So, you expanded on that.

Ryan Serhant:
Yes. I think it's important to do what works for you, and then just to do it over and over again in as many different places as you can.

Ryan Serhant:
I knew when I first moved to New York City, I'm not from New York. It's not going to help me or be a good use of my time to go to school functions that other brokers are going to just because they went to school on the Upper East Side, or to go to the church, or go to the synagogue, just to say that I'm religious, but I'm not, just to meet people, which is what most sales people do. So, for me, I really had work, I would do to the gym. And the gym was a good place for me to meet people who had a similar interest, which was kind of general fitness. And if I go to a nice gym, maybe they also could afford a nice apartment, so they can afford a nice gym. And that worked. I saw it worked. And I said, "Okay, you know what? This is now my thing. So, I'm going to go to another gym as well. And then I'm going to go to another gym. And I'm going to go to as many jobs as I can, because that's what works for me. And that's going to be where I build my network." And then for the first couple years, that's really what I did.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the thing that you make people do if they really want to work for you? It's not just about one follow up.

Ryan Serhant:
Oh, I make them follow up for a considerable period of time. Because the power of follow up is my whole business. Deals live and die by how persistent I am to get the deal done. And I tell everybody, I don't work for anyone. I work for the deal all the time as a salesperson. And my job is to get that deal done to everybody's benefit. And so, if people want to work for me, I interview them, for sure. I have them interview a couple people on the team. But then I just, I call them. I let them sit and I wait to see how often they're going to follow up with me. Most people will follow up once, twice, maybe three times. And after that, they let it go.

Ryan Serhant:
You know how many deals I would have lost if I let it go after three follow ups? Unbelievable. So, I can't have that kind of person on my team. They got to want to be on my team more than I want them to be there, because that's the person who's going to be hungry enough to get difficult deals done for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So much amazing information in your book and on your vlog, by the way. We didn't really talk about that. That's million-dollar listing, I didn't really realize this until you talked about it in your book, it's only on for three months of the year. So, people need to be watching your vlog.

Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, I think so. I put it out there as a way to put out a lot of the rest of my life and a lot of things that just aren't on Bravo. Bravo is real estate focused and it follows the individual deals. It's not with me in the car 24 hours a day, kind of in my thoughts and in my mindset, and that's what the blog is for.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. All right. Tell people where they can find you, follow you, find out more, get the book, all that good stuff.

Ryan Serhant:
The book just came out today, it's called Sell it Like Serhant, it's everywhere books are sold. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, you can find all the links at sellitlikeserhant.com. You can find me across all social media platforms at Ryan Serhant, and the vlog is @youtube.com/ryanserhant.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Ryan. This was great.

Ryan Serhant:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's unpack some of the things that Ryan said. Financial Grownup tip number one. I read Ryan's book twice. The reason I went back was to take notes. Now, I'm not in sales, at least not in a direct way. But I think it is important for all of us to understand how sales work, and the specific techniques that are being used so you can spot them. I joke about offense and defense, but that is important too. Because if we're being honest, who hasn't bonded with a salesperson, and then because of that felt they should, and sometimes did buy something they maybe wouldn't have bought otherwise? Always know that a good salesperson like Ryan will be in it for the long haul. And you can just push back. And even if you aren't a customer, now, you may be in the future. Also, the next best thing you can do is refer them to friends and family as potential customers. It's okay to do what's right for you, even if you feel an allegiance to the salesperson. We're all human.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Ryan talks about how he studied the most successful companies and what top executives do. Take this to a micro level and find someone that you admire and ask them if they will talk to you. It can be coffee, a meal, or going for a walk. And if you can, maybe even ask if you can shadow them for a day at work. I did this early in my career. Just observe and learn. And if they're open to it, ask a lot of questions. Most people are flattered.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, I am off to Orlando to FinCon and celebrating this 100-podcast milestone with some friends. I hope you guys will DM me and let me know what you want to see in the next 100 episodes. On Twitter, I am @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1. I have some big changes coming that I will reveal soon, so please subscribe and make sure you go into settings and hit auto download so you don't miss any episodes. Until then, feeling really grateful to Ryan Serhant for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Refinery 29’s work and money vertical editor Lindsey Stanberry and her frugal husband were checking all the boxes as financial grownups. But when they had a child, the new parents found themselves scrambling to make sense of their new urge to splurge. 

In Lindsey's money story you will learn:

-The financial changes that come with having children

-How to adapt a budget when financial values change

-Tips on how make career decisions while balancing a family

In Lindsey's money lesson you will learn:

-How big changes impact little everyday purchases 

-Two of Lindsey's biggest financial regrets

In Lindsey's every day money tip you will learn:

-The benefits of a high-yield savings account

-The app she uses to sell her clothes and make extra cash

Bobbi and Lindsey also talk about

-Her new book Money Diaries

-What women are spending their money on right now

-The Money Diaries series updated regularly on Refinery 29

In My Take you will learn:

-Ways to save money on baby clothes

-Travel more! Ways to plan amazing trips whether you have kids or not

EPISODE LINKS

https://www.refinery29.com/

Follow Lindsey!

Instagram @lestanberry

Twitter @lestanberry

Follow Refinery 29!

Instagram @refinery29

Twitter @refinery29

Facebook @Refinery29

Check out the companies Lindsey mentioned! 

Poshmark 

Capital One 

Trader Joes 

Bank of America 

---

Transcription

Lindsey Stanber:
He has said to me recently he would spend all the money on our kid if we needed to. But that doesn't stop him from being slightly annoyed when I pick out organic hot dogs that we will probably throw away because our son will not eat them.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Refinery29 Money Diaries author Lindsey Stanberry talking about how her natural instinct to always save money took a nose dive after the birth of her son. I think a lot of new parents can relate to this, feeling like they would spend their very last penny on their kid even if things were very different before baby.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. We keep the show short, about 15 minutes, because you're busy, but if you have a little more time, feel free to do a little bit of binging, and if you like the show, maybe do a screen grab and share it so we can grow the podcast. And speaking of growing the podcast, big news, Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast for the Plutus Awards which celebrate excellence in money content. So thank you for all of your support.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the paperback of my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup, is coming out in October. So if you have not had a chance to read it, I hope you'll check it out, and again, share with someone you care about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Refinery29 Money Diaries and our amazing guest, Lindsey Stanberry. Now, the book grew out of Refinery29's popular series by the same name and gives a very detailed, and I mean detailed, look of the spending habits of millennial women. The stories are jaw dropping. The reactions to them are dramatic in the comments. But I wanted to know more about Lindsey and her money diary stories so I pushed her to talk about something that she has yet to reveal, and that is money life after baby and what that does to one's money diary.

Bobbi Rebell:
She and her husband were the best of budgeters. They didn't eat out. They were champion savers. They bought an apartment in their 20s and were checking all the boxes on retirement and investing until they had the baby. And then it all went poof, well, not all poop, but life changed. Here is Lindsey Stanberry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Lindsey Stanberry, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Lindsey Stanber:
Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of Money Diaries so I could not have been more excited when your book Money Diaries from Refinery29 came out. Congratulations on all the early success because it just was released, and of course, it is number one new release on Amazon. Love it.

Lindsey Stanber:
Generally awesome. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you did this all in a very busy time in your life because not only are you married, you have a relatively young child, I think a one-year-old? Is that correct?

Lindsey Stanber:
Ike has just turned two.

Bobbi Rebell:
He just turned two. So happy birthday.

Lindsey Stanber:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that brings us to your money story. Do tell.

Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. So I've talked a lot of in the past about how my husband and I saved $100,000 to buy our first apartment in New York. And my husband is very frugal, and by extension, I've become more mindful of my money. Two years ago, when we had our son, we knew it was going to change our budget. We had to sell that apartment and buy a new one and start paying for child care, and we anticipated those big expenses. But I was really shocked at how my time became much more valuable than it had ever been before. And I talk about in the book this incident where my husband and I were at Trader Joe's having a fight over organic yogurt.

Lindsey Stanber:
My son is an incredibly picky eater. He has been since the moment we introduced solids. We will try everything, and we end up throwing away all that food. And it drives me absolutely crazy. And I write in the book about this experience of realizing that my time is so valuable, and I'm wiling to spend more money in ways that I never anticipated and had never before. My husband dubbed it Baby bourgeois.

Lindsey Stanber:
So it's been a weird and stressful experience for us. And I just had to kind of let go of some of that control and feel appreciative that we were so careful with our money in our 20s when we were able to just worry about ourselves.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us an example of something that you spent money on, now that you have a child, that you never would have thought have spending money on before?

Lindsey Stanber:
People think that I'm crazy but like service fees to go to the movies. We would have never in a million years paid extra money to reserve tickets online. We would specifically go early to the box office to buy the tickets, and we would save the $2. And now, it's just like well if you want to see the movie, first of all, you're going to have to find a babysitter, and that's really expensive, and then you want to make sure you can actually get into the movie. So we're pre-buying our movie tickets now, and that $2 is just out the window.

Lindsey Stanber:
But then also stuff like we would never pick up milk from the place around the corner because it was $1 more, but now we do because I want more time with my kid. I don't want to go out in the rain. I am tired after working and writing a book and taking care of a baby. But it's also made me a lot more ambitious. I care about earning money more than I have before which surprised me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us an example of that.

Lindsey Stanber:
Well, I think that when you think about things like negotiating or saying yes to something, I took on this book, which is an incredible opportunity, but I did take it on top of my regular job and on top of having a kid. And I knew I was going to have to make some sacrifices in my personal life, but I did that with the idea that this would be something that would help me grow my career, and that would ultimately be good for my family and, in theory, help me earn more money in the long run.

Lindsey Stanber:
So it's a real push pull, and I think that I am more excited about opportunities, but I'm also more careful about what I say yes to.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's interesting though also is that you and your husband don't always approach spending as parents in exactly the same way. Tell us about that.

Lindsey Stanber:
He was a reluctant parent and very open about that, and I appreciate that. He said to me recently he would spend all the money on our kid if we needed to. But that doesn't stop him from being slightly annoyed when I pick out organic hot dogs that we will probably throw away because our son will not eat them. It's been a struggle for both of us to figure out how this spending is changing.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?

Lindsey Stanber:
I think people expect those big expenses. They expect that childcare will be a huge chunk of their budget, but they don't think about the small things. I joke in the book I'm never going tell you not to buy a latte, but enjoy buying that latte and saving that money when you only have you to worry about because your finances do change so significantly when you have a kid and in a good way. I'm happy to spend my money on him. I say that in the dedication to the book. It's a joy, but it does really change things, and it's really important to talk about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there things that you look back on that you would have done differently?

Lindsey Stanber:
There's two things. I wish I had started investing earlier. I was always very nervous about the stock market, having been a young adult when the recession happened last time, and I have always felt really intimidated by that, and I wish we had been smarter and not sat on so much cash. And this is the thing that would have cost money, but I wish we had traveled more. It's expensive now to do it with a kid, and we could have done it cheaply and smartly. And we worked so hard in our 20s, and I'm really proud of the work we did, but I definitely wished we would have taken a few more vacations.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hear you. Traveling with kids and with a family is a lot. All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip because that is a way that people can pretty much instantly, at least, have a trickle more cash. Maybe a little extra money for their latte or maybe money to then move into other kinds of investments. Do tell.

Lindsey Stanber:
One thing that we recommend in the book is getting a high-yield savings account. I have a Bank of America account and a Capital One account and the differences in their 401Ks is crazy. Bank of America I think is like zero, zero, zero ... It's negligible. I get like 38 cents every quarter versus my Capital One savings account, which I think is like 1.85, and I have a nice little emergency fund in there and so I get a little bonus each month that I kind of consider my free money. My husband just bought some sunglasses, and I was like, "Oh, I think that some of our interest rate covered that. So don't worry about it," which is not necessarily the most responsible way to think about that interest rate, but it is nice to have that little extra bonus.

Lindsey Stanber:
We talk about side hustles in the book too, and that's a way that we saved a lot of money. So there's lots of little tweaks that you can make to find cash that can be used to buy that latte.

Bobbi Rebell:
What other tweaks do you have? Other ideas?

Lindsey Stanber:
I am such a fan of selling clothes on Poshmark. It's a little embarrassing. I'm totally addicted, and I use that money to buy new clothes. I'm a little bit more careful about my shopping these days because of said child.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you get your kids clothing then? Do you buy new or are you buying that off the websites? Does Poshmark do kids clothing? I know there's a lot of other ones for kids.

Lindsey Stanber:
I think they do. I don't ever buy cloths. I have two very doting grandmothers who dress him, and I never buy anything. There's a really fantastic kind of underground parent exchange at both Refinery and among my friends. So we do lots of hand-me-downs and trades. And I didn't buy a car seat for a long time because I used my boss's, and yeah, it's been great. And then I just hand that all off to other people. So clothing, my kid is cheap. It is free. Feeding him is not.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We're going to talk later. We're going to work on that food thing. I have some ideas for you about that.

Lindsey Stanber:
Okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about Money Diaries because this came out of a successful series that you have shepherded over at Refinery29. Tell us more about the book because what I love about this is it's really similar to my mission here at Financial Grownup. It's really about opening the door to very personal and candid stories about the reality of how people actually approach their money in different situations but so many universal themes.

Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. It was really important to me that this book, not shame the readers. We present Money Diaries without judgment. And the comment section on Money Diaries can be, at times, very judgmental. But for us, from Refinery perspective, we don't want you to feel bad. I think that there's so much ... Especially for women, there's a lot of guilt around both earning money and spending money, and I really wanted to get rid of that and to just really talk to our readers like you do, like a grown up, and not be condescending or a bully or make them feel bad because they like to buy a latte on their way to work every morning because they hate their job.

Lindsey Stanber:
So it's really thinking about how your spending impacts your life now and how it can impact your future, and that future doesn't need to be 100 years from now when you're retiring. It can be what you do next year or what you do five years from now.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what's interesting is that a lot of these stories reveal trends that you see, not only the stories in the book, but it's an ongoing living series on Refinery29.

Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. It's really interesting to see how women interact with their money and how there are things that are deeply personal. There are things that are ... We don't reveal anything about race or ethnic background in these or sexuality, but if you're a careful reader, you can pick up some clues. And so it's very interesting to see how a woman of color manages her money versus the famous intern who is getting $3,000 a month from her parents. It's fascinating-

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Which do get a lot of judgy comments to say the least.

Lindsey Stanber:
On both sides, they're getting judgy comments. So it's interesting. But then we do see trends like there's a lot of spending on self-care right now because people are really uncomfortable in this political climate, and we see couples struggling to figure out how they're going to manage their finances. A lot of women who are maintaining separate bank accounts and tracking every dollar that their partner spends. It's really interesting. I always say that personal finance is very personal, but there are definitely themes and things that we go back to again and again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I know you're going on a book tour so I want you to give people all the information about how they can find out about that and follow you and Refinery29 on all the socials.

Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. So you can read Money Diaries daily at Refinery29. We also have an awesome Facebook group. And of course, you can follow Refinery on Instagram and Twitter, and you can find me on Twitter and Instagram as well at lestanberry and I will be doing lots of fun stories around the book tour. I'm really exited about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you, Lindsey.

Lindsey Stanber:
Thank you so much, Bobbi. Super fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so think about what would be in your money diary and would you have the courage to share it publicly. Hm. Here's my take on what Lindsey had to say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number 1. She talked about free clothing for kids. Well in addition to the places that she mentioned, which are great, especially, grandparents, parenting Facebook groups are a great way to get not just free clothing, but also toys and furniture. Be sure to join one that is hyper local because very often the givers only ask is that you come to them and pick it up in person.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number 2. Lindsey mentioned that she regretted not traveling more before kids, and I couldn't agree more. For my family if all five us go, it is a lot. I mean breakfast alone, crazy. So another challenge is that kids have different interest, especially if you have kids that are boys versus girls or are different ages, which are spread out. That's what I have. I have older step-kids that are now in college, and then I have an 11 year old.

Bobbi Rebell:
So one idea is to do smaller, one or two kid trips. You don't all have to go. And you could have one parent go and not just two. So for example, we recently went, my husband and I, with the 11 year old to Iceland, just him. Another time, my husband took the older two kids to Washington DC when my son was younger because he wouldn't have been interested. He would have been bored to tears, but it was a great time for the older kids to go and see the nation's capitol.

Bobbi Rebell:
Each time, it was three of us on a trip, which is a lot less than five if you can imagine. And usually, at that point, you can be hotel room, which makes a huge difference. And we weren't dragging kids that didn't want to be there. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do one trip at least a year or some trips with all of you, it just doesn't have to be every trip with everyone. And the more direct one-on-one time is also really special. And when you take just some, maybe it's a good time for the kids that aren't going to spend time with other relatives like grandparents or aunts and uncles.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Show notes can be found at Bobbirebell.com/podcast/lindseystanberry where we'll have all the information that she said at the end about how to follow Money Dairies and all the places that she mentioned. Be sure to [inaudible 00:16:12] me on all the socials. I am at bobbirebell1 on Instagram, bobbirebell on Twitter. Find out more about the podcast at Bobbirebell.com/Financialgrownuppodcast, and thanks to Refinery29 Money Diaries author, Lindsey Stanberry for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownups with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Making time for face time is the best use of time for Bring Your Human to Work author Erica Keswin. She credits her biggest business successes to making the time to connect in person-even when there is no time.

In Erica’s money story you will learn:

-How face-to-face meetings have impacted Erica's business

-Hacks that create more time in your schedule 

In Erica’s money lesson you will learn:

-The benefits of being positive at work
-Strategic steps that make scheduling in person meetings easier

In Erica’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The negative side of multitasking

-The benefits of getting to know the local Starbucks barista

Bobbi and Erica also talk about:

Groups that Eat Together Perform Better Together - Cornell University Study

In My Take you will learn:

-What phubbing is and how to avoid it

-Tips to forming real connections at work

EPISODE LINKS:

Get Erica’s new book Bring Your Human To Work!

Learn more about the Spaghetti Project!

Follow Erica!!

Instagram @ericakeswin

Twitter @Erica_Keswin

Linked In @Erica Keswin 

Listen to Erica’s friend Shelley Zalis on the Financial Grownup podcast !

---

Transcription

Erica Keswin:
I didn't have time for this meeting, but by investing one hour, which then led to two hours, in that face to face meeting over breakfast, I not only gained a friend but a true business partner.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. You guys know I talk a lot about my walks with friends. Save money, save calories, and all the big ideas that come out of those walks. Today's guest, Bring Your Human to Work author Erica Keswin, is one of my favorite walking buddies, and one of my most motivating and inspiring friends. Just quickly want to welcome our newest listeners, and welcome back everyone else. We keep the shows to about 15 minutes because you're busy, but if you have a little more time, feel free to binge listen, and tell someone you care about to listen as well, so we can grow the show. Of course, please do all the things. Subscribe, rate, review. Do a screen grab if you can. Share it on social, and make sure to tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Erica Keswin. She spent years working as a consultant, partnering with top researchers, and as I personally witnessed, traveling the globe, literally, to interview the most innovative business leaders in person, and you will appreciate why that face time is priceless. IRL all the way. It matters. The result? Bring Your Human to Work: 10 Surefire Ways to Design a Workplace That's Good for People, Great for Business, and Just Might Change the World, which is endorsed by big names, including ... You ready, guys? Katie Couric, Arianna Huffington, Adam Grant, and one of my favorite authors, Charles Duhigg, who you may know as the author of The Power of Habit. This is big, guys. I'm so excited to bring you this interview. Here is Erica Keswin.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Erica Keswin. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Erica Keswin:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I just finished reading your amazing new book, Bring Your Human to Work. It is a very well-researched book, going into depth on a number of companies from JetBlue, to Rebecca Minkoff, and you brought us a money story that has to do with the theme of Bring Your Human to Work. Tell us your money story.

Erica Keswin:
Sure. Last year, I was honored by an organization with an event called 10 Women to Watch. We had our first phone call with all 10 of us about six months before the event, and we went around and introduced ourselves in alphabetical order, and the last person to go was a woman named Shelley Zalis, founder of The Girls' Lounge, and The Female Quotient, and I know she was recently on your show as well, so it's a small world. I had heard of Shelley. I knew her name, but we had never met, and never talked on the phone. When she got done with her introduction, I remember saying to myself, "Wow. This is somebody who is very aligned on so many issues, and perspectives, and things that I think about, and I can not wait to meet her in person." What I didn't know on that call is that when she heard my introduction, she actually felt the same way.

Erica Keswin:
About two months later, I found myself in Los Angeles for a series of work meetings, and I was literally back to back, but I said to myself, "You know what? This is where Shelley lives. I'm gonna reach out, send her an email, and see if she has time to grab breakfast." I did. Long story short, the next morning, we met for breakfast, and the rest is history. She shared with me that she had that same feeling when she heard my introduction. We sat there. We were gonna meet for an hour. We each had meetings. We postponed our meetings, and we ended up there probably for close to two hours in that first meeting, and since that time, we've done work together, supported each other, become friendly. I interviewed her for my book. I've spoken at a number of her Girls' Lounges, and when I walked out of that meeting, I literally said to myself, "I didn't have time for this meeting, but by investing one hour, which then led to two hours in that face to face meeting over breakfast, I not only gained a friend, but a true business partner." It's a good reminder.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because being in person does make all the difference, especially when we spend so much time, as you say, left to our own devices. That's one of my favorite Erica catch phrases.

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. Left to our own devices, we're not connecting, and we need to be intentional. I try to meet at least one or two people in person every week. I mean, you and I will go decide ... That's one of the ways we got to know each other. We decided to go for a walk.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Erica Keswin:
And we didn't need to go for [inaudible 00:05:01], but we could actually go for a walk in the park around the reservoir. I know how great it is when I meet with people face to face, and I can't do it all the time, but by carving out a chunk of my week or my month to do it, it is good for me personally, but it's also been great for my business.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it also allows a space where you know, hopefully, somebody is not multitasking, because very often when we're on these work phone calls, we are distracted. When you're in person, unless you're rude and you're looking at your phone all the time, but I know you and Shelley are not, you're actually in the moment and you're focused on what's going on with that person.

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. I mean, we've all been on those calls where you say, "Erica, what do you think?" And I say, "Wait. What?" Then we all know what I was doing, and it was not honoring that relationship and being present. The technology is designed to suck us in, but again, we need to build in that intention or it won't happen, sadly.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson, then, for our listeners? Because so many of them are saying, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't have time."

Erica Keswin:
The lesson for them is to make the time, be strategic, and I know I've used this word a few times, but it's one of the most important things that I think about, which is be intentional. Look at your week. I know many, many people, every day, they'll take 30 minutes for lunch, and they'll make their doctor's appointments for themselves, or if they have kids, make them for their kids, and sit in their office, and get through their to-do lists. You can't not do that five days a week, so maybe just pick two days where you're gonna walk down the hall, or walk outside the office and meet somebody for a cup of coffee. Fit it into your schedule. All of us can look strategically at their calendar and say to themselves, "Does my calendar match my values?" If this is important to me, you can make it happen, and whether you use a paper calendar, or Google Calendar, the data will be clear, because you can look at where and how you spent your time.

Bobbi Rebell:
All kidding aside, I mean, we absolutely are friends, and we meet to walk as friends, but we have done a lot of talking about each other's businesses. I mean, your other business, the Spaghetti Project, I remember being so excited hearing about that with another friend, Caroline, on a walk. I still remember that walk, because I remember that "aha" moment when I was, "Oh my gosh. Erica is onto something really big." And it happened on one of our walks.

Erica Keswin:
No, it did. It did. The inspiration for the Spaghetti Project came out of research I was doing for the book, and I came across this study out of Cornell University by a professor named Kevin Nixon. Kevin's father was a firefighter, and when he was getting his advanced degree, he studied firefighters and studied firehouses. What he found was that the firefighters who were the most dedicated to that longstanding tradition of the firehouse meal, sitting around the table, building trust, investing in relationships, it was highly correlated with performance, meaning they saved more lives. That was a real goosebump moment for me, and I'm not out there saying we all need to eat together all the time. I know you and I decided to walk together, but there is a correlation between investing in connection and your own personal bottom line, and that of your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
That gives me the perfect intro to your everyday money tip, because that has to do with connecting with the people that we interact with in our daily lives.

Erica Keswin:
Every day, I go into my local Starbucks, and I got to know my local barista. Her name is Ashley Peterson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Featured in your book.

Erica Keswin:
Yup. She's featured in my book, and we developed a relationship over time. She took an interest in me. This was before the app, but she would have my drink ready when she saw me walking in. She got to know my kids. I got to know her personal story. What that led to was that she really would look out for me. Again, whether it was having my drink ready, if she could see the look in my face when I was late for school.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're never late, Erica. You?

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. I am pretty on time to early, but you never know. One of your kids has a tantrum in the morning, it could make you late. But then something so amazing and inspirational happened, again, based on this authentic connection that I had with Ashley. Ashley noticed that one of my kids, my daughter Caroline, developed this taste for their pumpkin scones, which only come out around ... They're seasonal, so they only have them around Halloween. But by November, they were gone. I'll give you only a piece of the story, because you'll read it in the book, but long story short, it's November 4th, Caroline had had her last pumpkin scone. We went by Starbucks. I got my coffee, but there was nothing else to get, and we kept walking to school.

Erica Keswin:
The next thing you know, I hear Ashley calling my name, literally running down Broadway, and I think I'd left my wallet or something in the store, given, again, this was before I bought my drink on the Starbucks app. She ran over, and was breathing so heavy, and she said, "Caroline, I know we're out of pumpkin scones, but now it's November into December and it's Christmas time, and we just got our amazing gingerbread into the store. I think it's something that you might like." It made my day. It made my daughter's day. I have to say, she didn't love gingerbread, especially as much as the pumpkin, but it was this moment for me where I thought, "Wow." This was so unbelievable. It was so human, and she did it because she looked out for me, and we had been mutually building that relationship over time. That became the inspiration for Bring Your Human to Work, because that is what Ashley did in that moment.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Let's talk more about Bring Your Human to Work. I think it was Do Something, where you talk a lot about the desk strategy, and how that office is set up, because the space that we work in also has a big impact on productivity and therefore the success of a company, and the success of you as an employee.

Erica Keswin:
Yes. 100%. One of the chapters in the book is called Space Matters, and what I would say to your audience is that I'm not talking necessarily that you have to go out and spend millions and millions of dollars to have the fanciest space and necessarily look like Google or Facebook. I'm talking about you can think strategically about your space, how people interact, and it doesn't have to cost anything, or doesn't have to cost much. Their phrase, they have something called "the reaping," which is a term named after Games of Thrones, which I'll admit I have not seen the show, but they come in every six months, and everybody knows the day before when the reaping is going to happen, and you come in, and you pick out of a hat, and the first person that picks gets to decide where he or she wants to sit, and then they go from there. One of the interesting things that I've seen in many companies is that if you have a startup, everybody does everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Erica Keswin:
Right? I mean, you and I both know. We're running our own small business. We do everything. But then as you grow and you scale, it is very natural to become more siloed. All of a sudden, if you have 15 people in your company and you're all together all the time, that feels very different than when you're at 100 people or 500 people. However, the more people can talk to each other across functions, it's better for business. Your space impacts performance when you're able to mix up where people sit and how they move around the space, and bump into each other. It not only is good for people to build those connections, but it has a real impact on your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. So excited. The book is finally coming out after so much work I know you've put into it. I'm excited for everyone to finally get to read it. Tell us more.

Erica Keswin:
Great. Yeah. The book comes out on September 25. It's available for pre-order now on Amazon. Just look up Bring Your Human to Work, and if you want to find me, my website is EricaKeswin.com, E-R-I-C-A, K-E-S as in Sam, W-I-N. If you want to learn more about the Spaghetti Project, it's SpaghettiProject.com. You can find me on Instagram, @EricaKeswin, and on Twitter, @Erica_Keswin.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erica, this has been so wonderful and so special, so thank you for joining us.

Erica Keswin:
Thank you for having me. It was great.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Listening to Erica, I feel like I got a whole new perspective on how people interact with each other, not only in person, but also in the way that we communicate through technology. One of those is Financial Grownup tip number one. One of Erica's observations that we didn't get to talk about was something called "fubbing," or phone snubbing. It's when you look at someone directly in the eye, but at the same time, you're texting on your phone. It is a skill that I personally don't have, but it's a thing apparently. Don't do it, even if you do have that skill. As you will read in Erica's book, research has shown this kind of multitasking is not just rude, it's bad for business. Read more in her book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Bring Your Human to Work, as Erica says, but don't leave it at the office. Keep it with you in life. In other words, bring your human to life too, and take a lot of these lessons in addition to work, to your relationships outside of work. For example, next time you are talking to a salesperson or a waiter, or say, just ordering coffee, address the person by name, and look them in the eye. They're gonna appreciate it. It will likely get you better service and make for a better experience for both of you, and as a bonus, sometimes you'll get special treatment, as Erica and her daughter did with Ashley from Starbucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for your support. Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast at the [inaudible 00:14:39] awards, which recognizes excellence in money-related content creation. I wrote a pretty long post on it on Instagram, so follow me on Instagram, and check it out for some interesting background on me, and on the Financial Grownup Podcast, and how I got here. I am @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, @BobbiRebell on Twitter, and learn more about the podcast at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. Don't forget to check out Erica Keswin's new book, Bring Your Human to Work, great ideas for everyone to make their work and their life a little more human, and of course, thanks to Erica for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

After appearing on Shark Tank, The Sole Mates’ Becca Brown and Monica Ferguson found their best business support came not from the sharks but from a resource that would become key to their growing success. 

In The Sole Mates money story you will learn:

-New details about their Shark Tank experience- including the awkward conversations they had with well-meaning friends before their episode aired

-What happened after their appearance as they became part of the Shark Tank Alumni group

-The role the private Shark Tank Alumni group plays in their current business strategy

-Specific examples of business opportunities that have come their way from being part of this exclusive group

-Details of how they were able to get a major national retail deal that elevated their business

-How they got involved with the NFL

In The Sole Mates money lesson you will learn:

-Specific ways to find entrepreneur groups that fit your business needs 

-Strategies to work to grow organic networks

In the Sole Mates every day money tip you will learn:

-Which luxury shoe brands best retail their value

-How to make sure you don’t lower the value of shoes you intend to sell

-The best strategy and what to look for when buying pre-owned shoes 

Bobbi and the Sole Mates also talk about

-The impact of the national CVS deal on their business

-Other ways they leveraged their Shark Tank experience

-The human element to big brands

In My Take you will learn:

-My strategies for buying gently work handbags and clothing

-How to apply re-sale strategies beyond shoes, to things like wedding dresses

EPISODE LINKS

thesolemates.com

Follow The Sole Mates!

Instagram @thesolemates

Twitter @thesolemates

Facebook The Sole Mates

Shark Tank 

CVS

Amazon.com

Facebook.com

Good Morning America

The View

The NFL

THEREALREAL.COM

Christian Louboutin

Gucci

Heidi Klum

Vera Wang

Oscar De La Renta

Here is an article from one of my favorite websites, The Knot, on used wedding dresses

https://www.theknot.com/content/used-wedding-dresses-buy-sell-online

---

Transcription

Becca Brown:
If someone says, "Hey, this person is a crook. Don't work with them," It's a warning to all of us, like, "Oh, I just got a similar call. Everybody be on warning. Don't take these calls."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. We all need someone in our corner. Actually, we need as many people as possible in our corner. And for entrepreneurs, connections are everything, which is part of the appeal of the show Shark Tank. A deal with one of the sharks, in addition to money of course, opens doors. But a lot happens also after the cameras stop rolling that we don't hear about. More about that from our guest in a minute. You might be surprised.

Bobbi Rebell:
But first, we have some exciting news to share. Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast from the Plutus Awards, which celebrate money-related content. And this October my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup, will be coming out in paperback. I hope you pick up a copy, if you have not already. And maybe tell me what you think, and send over some ideas for another book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Back to Shark Tank and our guests, those Solemates co-founders, Becca Brown and Monica Fergusen. They left their jobs at Goldman Sachs to start a company making heel protectors under the brand Solemates, and their products have become huge hits among celebrities. Names like Oprah and her buddy, Gail King, and countless women, including myself. As you will hear, some men as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
So they went on Shark Tank and they got a deal, but the deal actually didn't happen. However, a lot of maybe bigger things, longterm, long "tail", I guess we call it. Big things happened afterwards in a way that I had no idea even existed. Here are the co-founders of Solemates, Becca Brown and Monica Fergusen. Hey, Becca Brown and Monica Fergusen, you guys are financial grownups. Welcome to the podcast.

Becca Brown:
Thanks.

Monica Fergusen:
Thanks, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the names behind the Solemates, which started with heel protectors, and now have a whole line of many, many things to help us keep our shoes in good shape and weather all kinds of hazards, like weddings. So congratulations on the success of Solemates.

Monica Fergusen:
Thank you, thank you, thank you. You know, we like to say that our goal is to make you more comfortable in your own shoes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that, and so does Oprah, by the way. You guys have got amazing press, so many big fans. You also got a lot of press because you were on Shark Tank, where you actually got a deal, after the fact though. And you've talked about this. The deal did not happen for various reasons. But the most interesting thing, I think, that you're going to talk about in your money story is what happens after. Tell us your money story.

Becca Brown:
Yeah, well, thanks for having us, Bobbi. This is Becca speaking. So obviously being on Shark Tank was an amazing experience. We were so thrilled to have that opportunity. But honestly, one of the biggest pleasant surprises to doing the show was what happened afterwards, which is we became part of this incredible, dynamic group of Shark Tank alumni companies; other companies that have been on the show. We are all part of this private Facebook group, and it has been literally the best resource for us to continue growing our business because it's like-minded individuals with, a lot of times, product-based businesses that are growing their companies. And we all are going through the same growth trajectories and sharing ideas and feedback and resources and it's been such an amazing resource for us.

Monica Fergusen:
Every time we would tell someone about what we did, the response was, "Oh, that sounds like something that should be on Shark Tank." And before you go on the show, you can't tell anyone you're going on the show, so it was a very frustrating time for us-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so you knew ... How far in advance before you actually ... first of all, before the taping, and then before it aired ... did you know? How long were you this keeping the secret?

Monica Fergusen:
Well, it was probably only a tight, tight, tight secret for a few months. The application process is really long and really from the time you start applying, you're pretty tight lipped about it because there's no upside in telling people what you're trying to get on. So it was a lot of forced smile responses of like, "Oh, what a great idea. We had not ever considered that"

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. So now you have this alumni group. Tell us more about the kinds of discussions and the kinds of advice that you've gotten from that and how has that helped your business?

Monica Fergusen:
The physical manufacturer of goods and the sale of goods comes with it a really unique set of problems including sourcing, including, web development, including your relationship with Amazon, including your PR, your social media, your relationship with influencers and traditional media, your relationship with employees. What kind of benefits do you set up? Do you have your own warehousing? Do you outsource it? There's so many things that come with every part of the business that to date we've kind of operated in a little bit of a vacuum where we leveraged them for everything daily. Being on the show it's a really cool and unique experience and I feel like it's also very much like a reflection of our culture right now, so in 25 years people will have no idea what we're talking about and Shark Tank is that right now and so it's cool to be a part of something that's so like of the moment culturally, which has also helped us grow our business in really unexpected and cool ways.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about the unexpected and cool ways the business has grown?

Becca Brown:
Well right after airing, we actually reached out to a couple of big mass retailers. CVS Pharmacies was one of them and the timing was perfect. CVS happened to be looking into building out a whole new category around fashion solutions and accessories and we had just had this massive exposure being on Shark Tank and so the buyer was willing to meet with us and literally like a month after Shark Tank, we went up to Woonsock at Rhode Island and met with the buyer and ended up launching in 5000 retail CVS pharmacies a few months later.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Did you go into the Facebook group and tell them about this and what was the reaction?

Becca Brown:
No, it's not really a place where you go and brag. Okay, so if I post a query today saying, "Hey, does anybody happen to know somebody that is working in media covering women's shoes?" Chances are within an hour I would have several responses like, "Oh, I know this person. I know that person."

Monica Fergusen:
Right. It's really, has anyone had this problem or has anyone met this person who's so helpful? It's asking questions and sharing a best practice. So like, "Hey, do you know if you contact Amazon on Sundays and you get the help desk in Ireland, there are much more likely to help your brand do X, Y, and Z if you get, I will not name a country, country on another day, hang up. Because like if [inaudible 00:07:09]

Becca Brown:
And I want to add to that too because I used to rent zip cars and that the sort of ethos of Zip cars was the community takes care of itself and you take care of the car and you return it with gas so that the next person can use the car. And I feel like our Shark Tank group carries that same sort of ethos. We take care of each other. We're looking out for one another. If someone says, "Hey, this person is a crook, don't work with them." It's a warning to all of us. Like, "Oh, I just got a similar call. Everybody beyond warning don't take these calls." And so we all are only as good as what we contribute and we are genuinely wanting to help one another.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you give me an example of wind that happened for you guys or for someone else in the Shark Tank alumni Facebook group that may not have happened without that network?

Becca Brown:
Good morning America and the television show The View. They do these really cool segments that are kind of like flash sales and on The View it's called view your deal and one of the. Actually two of the other Sharks Tank companies in our group have done view your deal before and they were so kind to introduce us to the group that runs that. So we did it in July.

Monica Fergusen:
And it was a great revenue generator and then more recently someone asked, anyone have products that would be interesting for NFL players in their fall training. So we're like, you know, we have products that we market for women but the product certainly work for men in hot pink packaging with high yield on it. If they're open to it, we're open to it and the managers looked at our product line and were like, "These products are amazing."

Monica Fergusen:
And so a 110 NFL players have been using our blister blocker and antibacterial spray as a result of some of the Shark Tank group The Newson sports managers who are looking for products for gift bags and looking to create relationships between celebrities and product companies and get nothing from it. Like the people in the group get, there no economic gain for them. It's more people they know have been put together with other people they know and that kind of goodwill you realize as you get older. It doesn't exist in that many places in the world people are often looking like, what can I get out of this? Or I can introduce you but like what's my take? And that is definitely not in line with the spirit of the Shark Tank group.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from that?

Becca Brown:
I think a lot of entrepreneurs, if they make a leap to start off their own business, they've come from a company where there's a lot of infrastructure, a lot of resources that you may have taken for granted and when you venture out on your own, as Monica touched on, it's very isolating and I think it's very important as soon as possible to start building a really strong organic network that is going to help you grow your business. And so obviously not everybody is going to be able to be part of the Shark Tank alumni group, but I mean looking at other entrepreneurs groups in your area, leveraging like the Chamber of Commerce, leveraging the small business administration. I think looking at your alumni network, a lot of times alumni networks do have an entrepreneur focus. There's like a sub network and it just can be so much more helpful to have that kind of a focus network because everybody's kind of in it to help one another, but also to expand and grow their businesses.

Bobbi Rebell:
You guys brought a fantastic shoe themed everyday money tip, do you tell?

Monica Fergusen:
Yes. So we're in the business of shoes and we are both appreciators and to some to be collectors of nice shoes. Not all high heels but many high heels, but something I think people should take in mind when they are considering a purchase of new shoes is that sometimes the more you spend, the more you can get back. And if you look at the success of the secondary market, the used clothing market for shoes, it's thriving, but in particular Christian Louboutin and Gucci are two brands that stick out as having the strongest bid for their gently used shoes. If you spend a thousand dollars, God bless you on a pair of shoes, the real real Mike Compu is several hundred dollars when you sell it again.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you mean by Compu?

Monica Fergusen:
I mean they will have someone buy from you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Monica Fergusen:
To make it simple. It's $500. So your net cost on that shoe is only $500. Whereas a lot of other designers that are not quite as high don't have a strong secondary bid. So you're unlikely to recoup any cash when you try to sell them. If you try to sell them, but Christian Louboutin and Gucci in particular, the real real has reported have done phenomenally

Bobbi Rebell:
So interesting. What about the fact that they are worn a little bit? Can you get them resoled? How does that affect the value, if you like with the Christian Louboutin, those are the shoes. Just so people know. I personally, by the way don't own any, but maybe some day they have the red bottoms, so what happens if you've worn it? Can you get them sort of resold? Because I resell a lot of shoes sometimes if I like them. Does that hurt the value? If you then put on new soles, can you paint them red? Does it matter?

Monica Fergusen:
It actually hurt the value. Done something like put on a new sole. They want the shoe to be in pretty good condition. I don't want to plug my own product too, but using things like a heel protector is a great start because the damaged heel-

Bobbi Rebell:
Which you should do anyway, whether you're going to sell it or not?

Monica Fergusen:
Well absolutely, but a damaged heel really can't be fixed. So you wear a little heel protector, keeping that heel in perfect condition, therefore it's so much easier to sell it. As someone who sells a lot of shoes, I can attest the lifetime value of the heel protector exceeds its retail value because it's a gold age-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well how much is, I mean they're not expensive. How much is a heel protector?

Monica Fergusen:
$10.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Monica Fergusen:
And that $10 is probably generated hundreds of dollars in resale for me on my shoes.

Bobbi Rebell:
What about buying shoes secondhand? What do people need to know there, what should they look for? Any tips?

Monica Fergusen:
So it's actually great to buy a shoe secondhand. And I have no economic interest in the real real, but I'm a big fan of theirs.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, I've sold stuff fair. They're great.

Monica Fergusen:
Yeah. But you can feel comfortable buying stuff from them too because they do have a really sharp guy and discipline and what they'll accept and they'll take anything back for them. I mean they'll let you know before you buy it, if it's final sale, but for the most part things are returnable.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk a little bit about Solemates. So what's going on with you guys? You're everywhere these days.

Monica Fergusen:
We're trying, we're trying. I mean CVS has been a great boon for our business and brought us in so many new customers and such great exposure and it's also been really fun to meet the brands that were sold within CVS. I mean it's more, again, more like-minded people, non Shark Tank brands. But we reached out to the other brands that were sold with just to introduce ourselves. A lot of them are based in our area, so we've been able to actually get together and have coffee. I think people sometimes forget there's a human element to everything. And so these massive brands that have names are intimidating because they've got Heidi Klum on their packaging, but they're run by real people that have real jobs and do a lot of the same things that we do.

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us more about where people can find you and keep up with all the new products that you guys will be putting out?

Monica Fergusen:
Yeah, so we're @thesolemates on Instagram and twitter and Facebook and our website is thesolemates.com where we're sort of up to date with all of our retailers and all of our products were sold at CVS, DSW, David's bridal, Von Mar, about a thousand independence all listed on our website. Always changing, always, hopefully, always growing our website and Amazon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great. This has been wonderful. Thank you so much.

Monica Fergusen:
Bobbi. Thank you so much-

Becca Brown:
Thank you Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Not your typical everyday money tip, but personally I kind of loved it. There's nothing wrong with having fantastic shoes. If you can get them at a huge discount, barely worn even better, but know to buy. Financial Grownup tip Number one. So the same idea goes for other things that you may not think you can afford or want to spend big money on, but if you buy gently used ones, maybe they do fit into your mindset. For most of us, it's really about getting past that psychological barrier, whether it's the idea of buying something that has been gently worn or just the idea of owning something that is so expensive. Even if you didn't pay the original retail price, so it's important to look for niche sites that specialize in what you want.

Bobbi Rebell:
The Real, real that Monica and Becca referenced is luxury, especially shoes and handbags, but you can also look, for example, for wedding dresses, so according to The Knot a used wedding dress in great condition can sell for 50% of the retail price. Just as is the case with shoes. Some designer names like Vera Wang and Oscar De La Renta will get a higher percentage. So if you want to go really high end and you know you're going to sell your dress after your wedding, know what you're buying so you know what you're selling and you can maybe choose a designer assuming that you liked that designer because you're going to be of course wearing the dress, which is the most important thing, but maybe if you're selecting between two, select a designer that will have the higher resale value. I'm going to leave a link to The Knot with some websites that you can check out.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you want to know more, including or to possibly even rent a wedding dress, the show notes that will have all this information are @bobbirebell.com/podcast/the soul mates. Financial Grownup. Tip number two, turn lemons into lemonade like the ladies did. Their deal fell through, but in the end, Monica and Becca leverage the Shark Tank experience and grew their business from the show anyway. Setbacks are only that and while they are a mum about why exactly the deal didn't happen ultimately my sense is that it just didn't work for both parties when it came down to it and that's okay. No deal is better than the wrong deal and that's a great lesson from Becca and Monica.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright everyone. Please be in touch DM me on all the socials. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, Bobbirebell on twitter, and sign up for our newsletter@Bobbirebell.com and thank you for a great story to Becca and Monica. So much we didn't know about Shark Tank and for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.