When financial advisor, podcast host and author Linda P Jones started trying to build wealth- she was not happy with the investment returns she was getting. So she hit the books and the lessons she learned added up to a $2 million bank account by age 39.  

In Linda's money story you will learn:

• Exactly how your ability to become a wealth heiress is already within you- and how you can make it a reality.

• The book her father gave her that changed her mindset as a young child

• Exactly how to emulate the strategy she has used of finding role models and learning their steps to success.

• How she made $2 million by the age of 39

In Linda’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why saving can be detrimental to building wealth.

• The most important indicator to watch when you are investing.

In Linda's everyday money tip you will learn:

• Why she focuses more on what she does with her money than how much she makes.

In My Take you will learn:

• The one thing you can do to make sure you don't hold yourself back, even if you are in a job that seems hopeless.

• The benefits of doing an end-of-year assessment of where your money actually is

Episode Links:

• Check out Linda's website - www.lindapjones.com

• Link to her book on Amazon - You're Already a Wealth Heiress

• Linda's Be Wealthy and Smart podcast

• Link to Tony Robbins book Awaken the Giant Within

• Link to Think and Grow Rich

Follow Linda!

• Instagram

• Linked In

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Linda P Jones:
The first person would have $48,000. The second person would have over a million dollars. Yet, they both earned the same amount of money. So it's really not about how much money you make. It's about making the right choices.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grownups. Okay, saving money, absolutely important. Key advice this holiday season, my friends, but you can't stop there. As you heard from our guest, financial advisor, podcast host, and author, Linda P. Jones, because, as she tells her listeners on her podcast, Be Wealthy and Smart, and readers of her book, You Are Already a Wealth Heiress, you need that compounding. In other words, you need to invest it, and you need to be smart about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, happy holidays to everyone, whatever holidays you celebrate, even if that holiday happens to be just taking a break from work around New Year's. I want to thank everyone for their support of the show. It is hard to believe it's been almost a year, and if you like the show, let me thank you. If you have a minute, post a screenshot on social media and tag me so I can do so. And if you are not already, please remember to subscribe, and thanks to everyone that leaves reviews as well. They are so meaningful to me and really the only payment that I ask if you enjoy the show. And with that, I want to share with you guys a gift from Linda P. Jones, this episode where she shares her journey to becoming a wealth heiress and how we can all create our own fortunes. I adore her, and I know you will too. Here is Linda P. Jones.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Linda P. Jones. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Linda P Jones:
Thanks, Bobbi. I'm so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Many of our listeners know you as the host of the podcast Be Wealthy and Smart, and more of them are getting to know you as the author of You're Already a Wealth Heiress, Now Think and Act like One, Six Practical Steps to Make it a Reality Now. The good news is it's selling really well. The bad news is it's sold out and on back order. Linda, what is going on?

Linda P Jones:
Well, it got a lot of popularity and is resonating with people. They love the idea that their ability for wealth is already within them, just like the small seed of a tree can grow to be a very large tree. It's already within that seed. It's a law of nature. And so I make that point that women can go from nothing to wealth, and I have lots of stories in the book about that. So that's really what I believed is that it's already within you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that, and it's so perfect that you became a successful author among your many accomplishments, which we'll talk about later, but a lot of this came from a book that your dad gave you when you were only 10 years old. Tell us your money story.

Linda P Jones:
Yeah, so my dad handed me a copy of Think and Grow Rich when I was 10, and I was already interested in financial things. And he handed me that book, and it really, Bobbie, set me off on a different course because a lot of that book is about mindset and thinking big and thinking positively and affirmations, a lot of mindset. And so it really started me in that direction, but it was really when we would get in the boat and go around the island where I grew up, Mercer Island near Seattle, we would look at these huge homes along the waterfront and say, "Look at that house. I want to live in that house. Oh my gosh. Look at that mansion." And we'd say, "How do people get rich? How did these people be able to afford this kind of a home, and how does that happen?" And it became my life's purpose to really study, "What are the steps to wealth? How did this happen?"

Linda P Jones:
I read all these autobiographies and biographies of millionaires, studying it all, and then-

Bobbi Rebell:
Like who? What other books did you read?

Linda P Jones:
Oh, everything from I mean way back to old things, like Earl Nightingale. I don't know if you remember these really old classics, way back, that came out of Think and Grow Rich, about Carnegie and Rockefeller and Aristotle Onassis. A lot of the people that were mentioned in that book, I actually went and did some more research on. Benjamin Franklin even. I mean, I went way back, and then I would also cover some of the people of the day. But I really just wanted to see what were the common points of those people, and that's when I come up with the six steps to wealth, and that's actually when I started following them and that is what enabled me to make my $2 million at age 39.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you make $2 million by age 39?

Linda P Jones:
I worked on Wall Street for a long time. After I graduated in business, I went into working for a Wall Street firm and represented investment firms, money managers. I wasn't a financial advisor. I did get my CFP and have had it all along, but I decided I didn't want to work with individual clients. I wanted to work with the people who actually invested the money and, again, find out what are they doing to be successful making this money grow? I realized my money wasn't compounding fast enough.

Linda P Jones:
The mutual funds were working fine. I started investing in real estate and got my compounding rate up to about 15% a year buying real estate with partners and doing flips, and this is years ago. This is a long time ago. That market eventually dried up because a lot of that came out of a banking crisis, and when the economy recovered, a lot of the opportunities to buy low really disappeared. And so I thought, "Okay, now what am I going to do because this is ending, and I need to find something else?"

Linda P Jones:
Well, back to the stock market. It started going up. In a particular year, it went up about 30%, and I thought, "Well, gosh, no flipping houses, no dealing with contractors, realtors, paying commissions, cleaning toilets, anything like that. That sounds like it could be a much better way to invest." I thought, "Well, maybe I can learn how to invest in stocks." So I got this book called How to Make Money in Stocks by William J. O'Neil. Because of my background in the financial world already, I had a lot of knowledge to build on, and I was able to teach myself through trial and error how to invest in individual stocks, and I was investing in a time that was the technology time, technology bubble, internet bubble, what I call bubbles and cycles where you can really find where is the fast compounding place of the particular day, of a particular year, or few years-

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were trading? You were really trading?

Linda P Jones:
I was not trading, actually. I was buying and holding, but I was identifying companies that would be the winners of the future and identifying them pretty early on.

Bobbi Rebell:
So doing a lot of individual stock research.

Linda P Jones:
Correct. Yes. And so that is how I grew my investment account to $2 million.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, congratulations, and here you are now sharing that knowledge with so many people. What is the takeaway from this for our listeners?

Linda P Jones:
Well, I think you have to start getting obsessed with compounding. I think a lot of financial experts are barking up the wrong tree in a way because they're very focused on being frugal, and they're trying to save their way to wealth. And that's very difficult to do because you have to make a lot of money in order to be able to save enough to be financially independent. The reality is most people are going to become financial independent through compounding and through their investments. And so if you get really good at investing and get really focused on your compounding rate, that's going to serve you much better than trying to save a few pennies here or there, in my opinion.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that brings us into your everyday money tip.

Linda P Jones:
Yeah, so my everyday money tip is that it doesn't matter how much you're making as much as it matters what you do with your money, the decisions that you make, the way that you invest your money. And let me give you an example, Bobbi. So let's say there's two people, and they each earn $40,000 a year, which by today's standards is an average to modest income. But let's say they make very different choices with their money. One person saves the average savings rate in the US, which is 2.8%. That's $1,120 a year for a total of $33,600 saved over 30 years. If they put that into their bank account and earn 2% annually over 30 years, their lifetime, let's say, their money will grow to about $48,000.

Linda P Jones:
Let's say the other person earning $40,000 a year is a better saver. They save $5,500 a year, which is the maximum you're allowed to put into your IRA if you're under age 50. You can save more if you're over 50. And they earn 10% a year in a long-term stock market portfolio, and they're able to do that for 30 years. That person's money will grow to over a million dollars.

Linda P Jones:
So, to summarize, the first person would have $48,000. The second person would have over a million dollars. Yet, they both earned the same amount of money. So it's really not about how much money you make. It's about making the right choices, decisions, and investing well so that you can achieve financial freedom.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. The ultimate mistake that people make is they save money rather than invest it. If you have it, once you have your emergency fund, it's really important that it not just sit in a savings account because you're waiting for, for example, the right time to invest it or something like that. It's a great point that you make. And you make a lot of great points like that in your book. So let's talk about your book. It has a fabulous title. You Are Already a Wealth Heiress. I feel better just hearing that, Linda.

Linda P Jones:
Well, you are already a wealth heiress. It's already within you, as I said, and you're already the bright, successful, confident person. There's one within you. You don't have to have a brain transplant. You don't have to have some magic spell put upon you. It's already within you, just like that little seed grows into a big tree. It's a law of nature. And so in the book, I talk about a woman who was basically destitute in China, no education, was responsible for her family, worked in a factory, made very little money, and eventually became the richest woman in the world. And that was not because some exterior force came and did something to her. That was within her all along. And so I just want to encourage people that you do have financial brilliance within you already. You just have to develop it, learn, get some knowledge, and take action.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you share that three times a week on your podcast, Be Wealthy and Smart, which I am a new fan of and obsessed with. And Linda, your podcast is in 181 countries. You've had more than two million downloads, and now you're expanding into video.

Linda P Jones:
We are. We're doing Wealth Heiress TV on YouTube. There were a lot of people that wanted the video format, and I felt I could reach a completely different audience on video. My Be Wealthy and Smart podcast is also on YouTube, so it plays to both, but I really wanted to have a video component where I could see people, they could see me. I guess I can't see them, but they can see me, and I just felt like we could do some fun things. We could go on trips together. I could take them places with me. I could show them wealth-building ideas in a different way. So it's going to be something that will evolve over time. Right now, I'm in the basics, but I hope to expand it over time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, it is all a gift, and thank you so much for all of it. Where can people find you? Give me all your social handles and all that good stuff.

Linda P Jones:
Well, let's see. They can find all of my podcasts at LindaPJones.com/podcasts. They can, of course, find Be Wealthy and Smart on iTunes or Stitcher Radio, wherever podcasts are. They can find my Instagram page, which has wealth tips twice a day at Instagram.com/LindaPJones and as well as Twitter, Linda P. Jones and on Facebook Linda P. Jones fan page.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. You are one busy lady. Thank you for it all, Linda.

Linda P Jones:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
The first thing I want to talk about may catch some of you off guard, and that is Linda's offhand comment, you may have even missed it, about cleaning toilets. Financial grownup tip number one, do not let any job or wherever you start in life hold you back. For those of you who read my book, How to be a Financial Grownup, you may have noticed a story in the book from a guy who also, by the way, contributed the foreword, named Tony Robbins. You know what he did before he was Tony Robbins? Well, he was a janitor. He cleaned toilets. Also, he was broke and from a really dysfunctional family and so on. If Tony Robbins can create his own wealth dynasty, so can you. Go read Linda's book, and while you're at it, check out Awaken the Giant Within. That's one of Tony's books that I love.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, do an end-of-year assessment of where your money actually is. Sometimes we save it and we forget it, and it's not actually invested in something that is going to grow. Make sure that your money is where you think it is. Sitting in an investment account is not the same as actually being invested in, for example, a stock, a mutual fund, an ETF, whatever is right for you. Make sure it actually got there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks everyone for your time. I value it, and this is why we keep the episodes short. If you value this podcast, please help it grow by doing all the things, rate, review, subscribe, and definitely share it in social media. Be in touch [inaudible 00:14:25] on Instagram. I am @BobbiRebell1 on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and you can always email us your suggestions at hello@financialgrownup.com. That includes guest suggestions. By the way, if you enjoyed this episode with Derek and want to see more people like him, send us some ideas. We'll see what we can do. And of course, tell your friends so we can keep spreading the word about the podcast, and let's all thank Linda P. Jones for such great advice helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK Media production.

Soon after Christine Armstrong’s husband took a company buyout and launched a family vacation business, the executive and new mother found herself in an intolerable job situation and quit to start her own business- resulting in a double dose the challenges of startup life. 

In Christine's money story you will learn:

• Being miserable in your job isn't worth the money

• Why Christine and her husband went from having two good paying jobs to not having any set income to rely on and how they made it work

• By being curious how other parents were balancing work life and home life, she started interviewing them, which led to the inspiration of her book - The Mother Of All Jobs

In Christine’s money lesson you will learn:

• How little you can spend when you really put your mind to it

• Be conscious of how much you are spending on childcare and figure out a way to best balance that expense with your work life

In Christine's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How to be more eco-friendly with your gifting over the holidays, and save money

• How to teach your children the benefits of gifting second hand goods and why they should be proud of it and not hide it

• Where to find the best high quality second hand goods for yourself, and for gifting

In My Take you will learn:

• Don’t spend the time stressing about the money. It is gone. Move on psychologically and just do better next time

• Keep your fixed costs low

Episode Links

Check out Christine's website - www.christinearmstrong.com
Link to buy Christine's book on Amazon - Mother Of All Jobs
Link to Ebay.com

Follow Christine!

• Linked In

• Twitter

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Christine:
What we were astonished by, having gone in a really short space of time from two corporate incomes to nothing, was how much spending you could just strip out overnight. We just cleared everything. We cut television packages, gym memberships, old insurance policies. We just scaled everything right back.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, have you ever heard the acronym DINKS? D-I-N-K-S. Double income, no kids, usually used in the context of couples that have a capital F for fabulous lifestyle. How about if that was now double startup, two kids. That is where Christine Armstrong, author of The Mother of All Jobs, and her husband found themselves, and let me tell you, there was drama with a capital D. Spoiler alert though, they survived, but they lived to tell the tale and we get to benefit.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone, if you are new, so glad you found us. If you have a sec, do a screenshot and post it on social media, make sure you tag me so I can welcome you personally to our Financial Grownup community. The show stays around fifteen minutes because you're busy, but feel free to binge listen to a few if you have a little more time. We now have a library of more than 100 amazing high achievers sharing their stories and lessons.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's get right to it. Here is Christine Armstrong. Hey Christine Armstrong, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Christine:
Thanks so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations on you're new in the US book. It's already been a huge hit in the UK where you are called, The Mother of All Jobs. How to have children and a career and stay sane-ish. Emphases on the ish, right?

Christine:
Yeah, totally.

Bobbi Rebell:
You have managed to stay sane in an extraordinary circumstance where both you and your husband found yourself in startup mode. Tell us your money story.

Christine:
So I had a lovely job at an advertising agency and I traveled all over the world and presented work. When I had a baby, I came back to the ad agency, but the boss had changed and they were offering me different terms and I kind of panicked and I took another job, which wasn't a great fit for me. It was a really heavy [inaudible 00:02:56] culture and I was really kinda stressed. It wasn't a great place for me anyway, but it particularly wasn't a great place with a small baby.

Christine:
But I felt I couldn't leave because while I had been on maternity leave, my husband, who'd been eighteen years at his company, was offered a big package to leave and he was like "Look, I really wanna take it, I wanna startup this business." I was like "Okay, yeah. That'll be fine, great idea."

Bobbi Rebell:
Because you would have the steady income.

Christine:
Right, 'cause I was just gonna go back to my job. It never occurred to me that I would want to stop or do less work. That kind of career was what I did. My job at the ad agency, they were really senior women who had families, and that seemed to be what they had done and it was fine.

Christine:
So we found ourselves in a situation where I was really unhappy at work and he was with the startup, which is a travel company called [inaudible 00:03:40] as you know with a startup, you don't make money immediately, so he wasn't making money, but we still needed quite a lot of childcare, because also, he wasn't home being just a parent and I was working really hard, but quite frustrated. So, I kind of was looking for answers in what I thought I could do to kinda make things better. I decided that I would have another baby.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Christine:
Of course.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because that will solve everything.

Christine:
In my mind ... you know, they say when you are really stressed, you start making really bad decisions and you can only see things in black and white. I was just like, I got to get out of here and I've got to take time to think, so I had another baby, which was great, but it obviously didn't solve my problems at work. Then I went back to work and it was still really, really difficult. So I decided to go and interview women about how they made it work, and some men as well. That was really where the book came about.

Christine:
During this process of interviewing these amazing people and understanding what I needed to do, I had lunch with a really old friend who's a therapist. We were in this café and I just talked at her for 45 minutes. She looked at me and she said "Look darling, just go. Go back to the office, get your coat and go home." I said "You're insane. I've got a mortgage, I've got childcare, [inaudible 00:04:58] is making no money." She's like "Yeah, but it'll be fine, just give it to the universe." I'm laughing at the word-

Bobbi Rebell:
The universe does not pay your bills.

Christine:
No, no. So, I didn't take her advice. I didn't literally go back to the office and resign, but I went home that evening, I said to my husband "Jill says I should resign" and he says "Yeah, I think you should, you're so unhappy, it'll be fine." So I did and then ... in the UK, you get three months notice. So I had three months of pay, so I kind of had three months to sort things out. During that period, we booked an amazing trip of a lifetime to go visit my sister in Thailand.

Christine:
Basically, the first thing I did with no income whatsoever was get on a plane to Thailand and go stay in five star hotels, but my sister had booked me where breakfast costs like $50 a person. Chris and I just kind of got fits of hysterical giggles and weren't really sure what to do or how to make it stop, because it was all pre-planned. Chris was like "Okay, the only thing we can do is just to enjoy it and then we'll deal with stuff when we get back."

Bobbi Rebell:
So basically, so now, you're gonna start your own business as an author, because you've got this book in progress. Your husband is at this business, which spoiler alert, is doing great now, but was at its early stages and you're living a lifestyle that needs two incomes from steady jobs to support.

Christine:
Well, I would say that that was our saving grace actually. I think we were really fortunate that my husband bought a house a long time ago, so actually, when we came back from Thailand and were like "Okay, let's just clear the decks. We've gotta lose every piece of spending that we have that is not essential." What we were astonished by, having gone in a really short space of time, from two corporate incomes to nothing, was how much spending you could just strip out overnight. We just cleared everything. We cut television packages, gym memberships, old insurance policies. We just scaled everything right back. What we were astounded by, we really worked together on it, we were really focused on it. We went from shopping in the equivalent of Whole Foods to the discount aisle at the discount supermarket.

Christine:
We were just astonished actually how little you could spend when you really, really put your minds to it. Having been massively complacent, it has to be sad. So, we just stripped out all spending and twiddled everything back and basically rebuilt from there. So I didn't immediately start a business. I freelanced for a while and then I met a guy called Robert Phillips who had it in his mind an idea of a consultancy he wanted to set up and was really inspirational.

Christine:
I joined up with a group of people and we started a consultancy that's been really successful and it's given us a great and stable income and allowed us to compensate. But it really took nearly a year for us to sort all of that out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Christine:
So my takeaway, the thing that Chris and I have taken a run through our lives is to keep your fixed cost as low as you can, so that you've always got the flexibility to [inaudible 00:07:55]. We were saved by the fact that we didn't have an expensive car policy, we didn't have kids who have expensive childcare, we don't have kids in expensive schools now. We keep the baseline really low so that we can scale up or down according to what we've got available.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what you learned really, is that a lot of these expenses that were just part of your life, you weren't really thinking about. It was pretty easy to just say goodbye to them.

Christine:
It really was. I do totally take responsibility for having previously been compulsive, but we both had good jobs, we both got promoted pretty regularly, our incomes have got bigger and we just really assumed that they would just continue to get bigger. We just really were very thoughtless about A, the impact of childcare and how much money that is. And B, how you often also lose one or half a salary and we managed to lose two salaries, which I think was quite an achievement when you have kids.

Christine:
I think my other big learning is ... as well as keeping your expenses as low as they can be in terms of core expenses, but also to be really thoughtful about what your childcare costs are gonna be and how you can organize work when you've got kids.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. Another big expense with children is the holiday season and all this gift giving that goes on, which brings us to your everyday money tip.

Christine:
Yeah, I'm really interested in the circular economy which is reusing things and not keeping ... making new stuff. I really try and use second buy, second hand things, whether it's books, toys, looking on Ebay for things and getting the kids used to the idea that a gift is a gift, even if it's secondhand. I think that you can still give things to people they really care about, without spending as much money as you might have done.

Bobbi Rebell:
And not hiding the fact that it is secondhand, actually making that part of the conversation.

Christine:
Yeah, absolutely. I think being proud of it, you know, mixing something up. My husband's great at re-painting stuff or making it look better and being really proud of it and saying "I found this in a secondhand shop and I thought you'd really like it" that's okay.

Christine:
What I find is that strangely, people are quite excited that you went through the trouble to go look for it for them and if you fixed it up and made it look nice, than great. Embrace it, enjoy it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well one thing that I enjoyed was your book which is called The Mother of All Jobs. How to have children and a career and stay sane-ish. And as I joked at the beginning, emphasis on the ish. One of the great things about it, is that it's very real. You have some very relatable and specific stories. You did a lot of work interviewing people here.

Christine:
I did. I started off with those interviews I mentioned with really senior women who were very high fly. Then, I kind of went for the book to lots of really, really ordinary women, doing ordinary jobs who are never gonna be Chief Exec. Probably never gonna be on the board and just working to pay their bills, basically. To really understand the dynamics of their relationship, their kids, schools and just try to figure out how it all works together and how their solving problems and what works and what doesn't.

Christine:
There are no quick fixes, right? You look at each [inaudible 00:10:55], you go "What can I take from that that's useful? What's relevant to me right now?" That's the way it's set up.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the book has said it really smartly, in that it is bite-sized. You could read the whole thing, of course, but you could read it little by little and there are sections, breakout sections that are titled "If you are too tired and read the above" which kind of gives us the executive summary, because you're realistic about how busy parents schedules are.

Christine:
That's good also, 'cause I've got fifteen books on my bedside table and I wish some of them had a [crosstalk 00:11:26] section I could read as well. So yeah, it was a reflection of the experience and I read two pages in the evening after putting all the kids to bed and everything, then I fall asleep and I don't read anything else.

Christine:
Yeah, it was so that if people are skipping through it, they could just pick out some bits and come back to something later.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you are wonderful, as is your book. Tell us more about how listeners can find out more about you, the book and of course, following you on social media.

Christine:
So, I'm a Twitter person, and that's C ARMSTRTONG LD which stands for London and I have a website at ChristineArmstrong.com and I look forward to hearing from your listeners.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks Christine.

Christine:
Perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay friends. First, have you ever heard of something called the sunken cost theory? Financial grownup tip number one, sometimes, you pay for something and then, you can't get out of it. You are stuck and the money is gone. Like Christine and her husband's big luxury trip to Thailand. Don't spend your time stressing about the money, 'cause it's already bye-bye. It's gone. Move on psychologically, do better next time, but most of all, enjoy what you spent the money on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, keep those fixed costs low. Part of the reason that the panic attacks were kept in check for the couple was that they had a stable place to live. They own their home and they kept their overhead low because of that, so that they didn't have to worry about all of these bills that they were stuck with, that they couldn't do anything about. They were able to make changes in the high cost that they did have because, they were discretionary. Sure, you can go back and say they shouldn't, coulda, woulda, whatever, but ... the reality is, that when the you know what hit the fan, they were able to make some choices that didn't even seem that tough at the time. It's interesting that they never really went back to a lot of those discretionary expenses, even when they could, in theory afford them again, because their perspective had changed.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can go back now, of course and look at what you have that's discretionary and cut back, probably a good idea for most of us. But at least go and do an analysis of what you have that is fixed that you could not get rid of in this kind of unexpected situation where you suddenly have no income and two kids and businesses with bright futures, but still not any real, meaningful cashflow temporarily. Think about what you would do if you were in their situation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, I hope this episode with the great Christine Armstrong gave you guys some perspective on your money and your life. Let me know your takeaways and if maybe your making some changes because of what you heard from Christine. On Instagram, I am @BobbiRebell1 on Twitter @BobbiRebell and big thank yous for leaving reviews, it helps others discover the show, as does just simply telling a friend. Thank you so much, you have no idea. Thank you so much to those of you who do all these things and who subscribe and spread the word. It is truly so appreciated. We put so much work into this show and your feedback is priceless. Of course, also priceless, is the advice we got from Christine Armstrong that helped us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Special guest co-host Manisha Thakor of the True WELLth podcast joins Bobbi to share ways to be not just wealthy but well-thy in 2019. 

Performance coach Jen Cohen is a master at ab crunches— crunching numbers. She shares the story of how she talked her way into a job at Olive Garden before she was even old enough to work- and then reveals her secrets to eating healthier on a tight budget. 

Jennifer’s Money Story:

Thanks, Bobbi. When you asked that question, it makes you think and go back into your brain a little bit to think why someone is the way they are, subconsciously. I think it really goes back to when I was really small, four, five years old when my mom and dad did get divorced, and I guess money was quite tight. I do remember my mom, to make extra money, my mom is a psychiatric nurse, and she had a full-time job, but she had now two kids also, and it wasn't enough, so she would have these odd jobs.

Jen Cohen:
I don't remember all the details, but I do remember her working to sell stuff. She sold Mary Kay cosmetics on the side. She would also cut out pieces of the carpet in our apartment where she was selling them, and I think that vision or that imagery really stuck in my brain in a negative way. It told me right at that moment, "I don't want to be poor, or I always want to make my own money and feel financially stable and secure, not to rely on somebody else for my financial security."

Jen Cohen:
From that moment, I guess even as a small, small child, I went through life thinking of ways of having side hustles or working and doing things. When I was 12 years old, I remember bargaining and hustling with the manager of the Olive Garden down my street about working for him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, you were 12 years old, and you were working at Olive Garden?

Jen Cohen:
I was. I was a greeter. They wouldn't allow me at 12 because you're too young to get ... I wasn't allowed in the actual restaurant because it was illegal, but I negotiated my way with this guy and just begged him and just hawked him enough where he gave me a job as a greeter. I was able to open up the front door for customers when they walk in. When they first get there, the first person you see was me, and I'm like, "Hello, welcome to Olive Garden." That was really my first real legit job when I was in nine, no, seventh, eighth grade, something really ... I was young, where I remember people in my neighborhood be like coming to the restaurant and be like, "What are you doing here?" It was very odd.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it sounds like you were actually really proud to be earning money, even at that young age. You weren't embarrassed about it. You were excited.

Jen Cohen:
Oh, God. No. I loved it. I always loved having my own money. I always loved having that option, never having to ask my mom or whoever. If I wanted something, I would have it, but here's a caveat. I would never spend my money, so all of this was for me to have savings. It wasn't for me to actually buy stuff. I've never been a very materialistic person. It's really about having in my head knowing that I had that backup, having that security blanket. I would literally save everything.

Jen Cohen:
Then through high school, through college, I always had multiple jobs just so I had it where very comfortable later on, but it was never about that. I've been very rich, and I've been poor, or in the middle, but it's never been that story that's driven me. It's really about that I think one experience when I was a little girl that just has always been subconsciously in my brain where I'm driven to make and create financial security just to have it.

Jennifer’s Money Lesson:

The takeaway is, A, number one, always spend below your means, not above, just so you have that ability, and find and figure out ways to save money. There's so many ways now. You can eat cheaply. You can figure out ways. You can work out for free. You can eat for less than $7 a day. There's a lot of ways to be crafty and resourceful if you want to be.

Jennifer’s Money Tip:

People can actually be much healthier on a very restricted budget. First of all, eating canned salmon. Canned salmon is automatically wild.

Bobbi Rebell:
I didn't know that.

Jen Cohen:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
And wild salmon is better. That's not just a myth to charge you more at the store.

Jen Cohen:
Absolutely not. Farmed salmon has a lot of toxins and maybe a lot of mercury. It could have a lot of different things in it. That's why people say limit your fish intake to maybe once a week, twice at max.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and that wild salmon is really expensive near me.

Jen Cohen:
It's expensive everywhere, but if you buy canned salmon, just make sure you look on the can. If it says wild Alaskan, that can of salmon would be maybe $2.50 to $3 at most, and that's higher quality than salmon that you would buy that would normally cost about $14 a pound anywhere else, maybe $17 a pound, depending on where you live. That is the perfect portion. That in itself is a meal.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you usually eat it? Do you put it on a salad? What do you do with it usually?

Jen Cohen:
You could do anything. You could put it on a salad. You could actually ... When I'm starving and I need something to satiate me, I could just take the can of salmon, mash it a little bit of Vegenaise or mayonnaise whatever you'd like, or just put it in a bowl or whatever, eat out of the can as a snack. When I was on a budget I would eat that all the time, and I still eat that.

Jen Cohen:
The other thing is frozen vegetables. Frozen vegetables are a higher quality-sourced produce than what you find at the store because by the time it's at the store, it's been sitting on trucks, it's already half rotten. When you buy frozen vegetables, they flash-freeze them when it's at its peak, so the quality is better.

Bobbi Rebell:
So frozen vegetables, but not canned vegetables? What's the difference there?

Jen Cohen:
Listen. Canned corn, there's nothing wrong with canned corn. I mean, the reality is this: I don't like canned vegetables as much because I think when you do that in the cans, they have to add sodium. I try to stay away from that, but when it's the frozen vegetables, it's typically just the vegetable in itself flash-freeze in a bag so there's no added anything. It's just the vegetables. Canned vegetables typically have to have a preservative to keep it because it's not frozen, and also added salt. That's why I choose to have the frozen vegetables.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that all.

Jen Cohen:
And frozen fruit, by the way, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, and I do that in smoothies a lot, actually. I did that even today in a smoothie.

Bobbi’s Financial grownup tips:

Financial grownup tip number one:

Don't be a food snob. Jen talked about eating frozen veggies and canned fish and how, quote, "fresh" isn't always better even if it's organic. Oh, my goodness. Could you imagine? Organic not being the absolute best? You need to pay attention. You can really get burned paying up for all that so-called fresh food because when you take away all those chemicals, which you should, we don't want the chemicals on our food, of course, but sometimes, the shelf life is just really short.

Recently, I splurged on these organic grapes at Whole Foods, and they went bad so fast. I had paid $8 for a bunch because I really wanted the grapes and I wanted to feel like I was eating healthy, and they barely lasted. That is also, by the way, a reason not to go shopping with your kids because I was with my son, and he also felt we should get the grapes, even though they were really expensive, and it's really hard to say no to a kid with they ask for food that's actually not junk food. Even if it's not the absolute healthiest fruit, it's not junk food, and that hard not to encourage, so try to leave your kids at home when you shop, although that's not always realistic.

Financial grownup tip number two:

The power of persuasion is very real. Good for Jen. Jen really shouldn't have been working at the Olive Garden at age 12 because it was not actually fully legal, but she got her way because she was creative and she found a way to get to yes with a reluctant manager and find a way to work there without technically working there and not technically breaking the law. That was a great lesson for all of us, Jen. Be persuasive and find a way around obstacles.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Jennifer’s website - jennifercohen.com

• How to save money and cut calories on your morning coffee from Starbucks

• Jen's book Badass Body Goals

Follow Jennifer!

• Instagram - @TheRealJenCohen

• Twitter - @TheRealJenCohen

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Performance coach Jen Cohen is a master at ab crunches— crunching numbers. She shares the story of how she talked her way into a job at Olive Garden before she was even old enough to work- and then reveals her secrets to eating healthier on a tight budget. #EatHealthy #EatHealthyOnABudget #Author

Ambition Redefined author Kathryn Sollmann’s childhood took an unexpected financial detour when her father had a career setback. But becoming a financial grownup at a young age gave her the foundation to redefine ambition. 

In Kathryn's money story you will learn:

-Why she started working at a young age

-How her financially stressful childhood prepared her for success

-The way she wished her parents talked about money when she was growing up

In Kathryn’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to have honest conversations about money with a significant other

-Why Kathryn suggests women should always have a way to make money

-Her tips on how to balance work and family life

In Kathryn's everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to categorize your savings account

-Ways prioritize saving money while staying out of debt

In My Take you will learn:

-Financial grownups don't judge, every financial plan is unique to each family or individual but making smart decisions are what make plans successful

-Family time and work time don't have to be separate, hear what Bobbi and Kathryn have to say about blending a schedule in order to balance it

EPISODE LINKS

Read Kathryn's new book Ambition Redefined here

Check out Kathryn's website for more information here

Follow Kathryn!

Instagram: @KathrynSollmann

Twitter: @KathrynSollmann

Linked In: @KathrynSollmann

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
The financial situation at home got so tenuous that my father, a couple of times, took my little part-time afterschool paychecks to pay a few bills while he was waiting for some things to come in and that had just a profound impact on me.

BOBBI REBELL:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, financial grownup friends. I like to joke that it is never too young to grow up financially, but I'm rethinking that a bit, and that is because my guest, Ambition Redefined author, Kathryn Sollman, got a rude awakening when her comfortable upper middle class suburban life was interrupted by the harsh financial reality of a change in her family's financial situation. More on that in just a minute.

BOBBI REBELL:
First, a quick welcome to everyone. If you are new, so glad you found us. Please hit the subscribe button so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and go into custom settings and set to auto download. While you are there, it will make our day if you leave a quick review. Now to Kathryn Sollman. Love her book, Ambition Redefined, but I will warn you, she makes him controversial arguments. And while I do see her point, and she does a lot of research, there's a lot of data to backup everything she says, there is a lot of discussion about her perspective. And stay to the end. We will be giving away a signed copy of Ambition Redefined. Here is Kathryn Sollman.

BOBBI REBELL:
Kathryn Sollman, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Oh, thanks for having me. It's great to be here.

BOBBI REBELL:
I love your new book. Congratulations on it. It is Ambition Redefined: Why The Corner Office Doesn't Work For Every Woman And What To Do Instead. It's like you read my mind, Kathryn.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Yeah. We're in an era of women's empowerment, which is great, and we need to have a woman president, and we need to have more women running corporations, but that's very small percentage of women overall who want those kinds of jobs.

BOBBI REBELL:
Absolutely, and I do want to just mention that this is very important for men as well because men are huge stakeholders in this issue because they have so much at stake when it comes to not only whether they're women partners, their sisters, their mothers, their daughters work, but also the income that they generate because that can be a big factor when things don't go as planned, which brings us to your money story, which does have to do with your father and what happened and the impact on the rest of the family and the role that your mother had to play then in the family finances. Tell us your money story, Kathryn.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
I grew up in a very affluent community. My father was working in a big executive job in New York City. When I was in middle school, he lost that big job and he never fully recovered professionally. This then sent my mother, who was a former teacher, back to work and she hadn't worked in more than 20 years.

BOBBI REBELL:
Wow.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
So she had some fits and starts, but over time was able to reinvent herself to be an English as a second language teacher, but that wasn't really enough to keep the household going. So there was a tremendous amount of financial stress in the household. The financial situation at home got so tenuous that my father, a couple of times, took my little part-time afterschool paychecks to pay a few bills while he was waiting for some things to come in, and that had just a profound impact on me.

BOBBI REBELL:
What was your job?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
It was a company called the Danbury Mint. I guess I was a like an administrative assistant.

BOBBI REBELL:
And what kind of conversations did you have with your father or with your parents at this time?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
You know, it was a difficult environment because I felt like everything was always on pins and needles. I was young and it's not like I could have given my father advice. I was just kind of a victim.

BOBBI REBELL:
Well, what about your mother? How did she feel? Did you talk to her? Did she have regrets about having left the workforce? At the time, as you say, it was a different time. Did she feel she even had options not to leave the workforce?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
She felt a little powerless and she said that to me. She said, "Make sure that you always work because money is power." Not only in a relationship can money be power, but she said it's important that you have that power to support yourself and your family. I remember when she got one of her first big paychecks, she was very excited about being back to work and she bought herself a watch. I remember my father was very, very upset that she had bought that watch for herself because he felt like he should have bought it for her.

BOBBI REBELL:
What is the takeaway from your story for our listeners?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
You know, women really need to be sure that they're not delegating their financial security to a partner because even when things seem like they're going so well, you've got to realize that no job has a lifetime guarantee. The second thing is that women should always find a way to work in a flexible way, which in some circles, is very controversial. Women live longer than men. They typically earn and save less and it's very difficult to return to the workforce and recoup lost earnings when you've been out of the workforce for many years and women are out for an average of 12 years.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
If you feel like you have a moral obligation to be with your children 24/7, you've got to realize that if you ran out of money late in life, you would then, in fact, burden those very same children, which is basically what happened to me when my father took a couple of my paychecks. Fast forward, that's the same man who is not prepared for retirement and still alive at 89. At some point, he is going to run out of money and it's going to be my problem.

BOBBI REBELL:
All right, let's move on to the everyday money tip, which is also very important for women to have a sense of the contribution that they are making because, in some cases, many cases, they are not the primary breadwinner, but it is important to really understand that there is a significant contribution being made financially and you have a way to do that.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
What I always say is look at how much money you're bringing in each year and attach it to something. It could be two family vacations, it could be 50 percent or 100 percent of a college tuition bill, a child's braces, whatever it is, so that you can then say, "Okay, well I covered that. My money went to that." If you just put it all in the pot, it seems like your money is going to nothing or nothing significant.

BOBBI REBELL:
Right.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
And that's the way to make yourself feel better but also to, as my mother was saying, to exert a little power into the relationship and say, "I'm contributing too. This isn't just your ballgame."

BOBBI REBELL:
Which is very important because it makes it a lot more tangible. Let's talk about Ambition Redefined. I love this book. It's so relatable and there's a lot of truths in this that are not always spoken about, one of which is the fact that just because you were working flexible hours and sometimes part time hours does not mean you are earning less money or that you should settle for less money if you have the earning power in the market to earn more money.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Yeah, it's absolutely true. A large percentage of freelancers earn more money than they were making in their full time jobs within a year. I was just speaking to a woman who had a full-time job with absolutely no flexibility. She needed more flexibility. She left and she found another job where she is working three days a week and she's working closer to home. She got rid of the commute and she's making 60 percent more than she was in the full-time job.

BOBBI REBELL:
So it's a question of finding the right job that values your skills. You also talk about something called a Type E, and this is important because I know a lot of our listeners are very interested in having their own business and being entrepreneurs. But it's important to make sure that's the right fit for you.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
That's right. When you're thinking about flexibility, what could be more flexible than being your own boss? So I find that lots of women think about, have these Walter Mitty dreams of starting this business or that business. The fact is that you have to be the entrepreneurial profile and the entrepreneurial profile is working 24/7 because there's nobody else to make this business work other than you, especially in the early stages before you might hire people. The other thing is that you have to wear so many hats.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
So if you have a dream to be a marketing consultant and you really love marketing, well, you might love that marketing discipline, but you probably or you may not love sales. Any job, any business that you develop, you've got to be a salesperson. And lots of people thinking about having their own business will tell me, "Well, I don't like sales. I never wanted to be a salesperson."

BOBBI REBELL:
Everything is sales though, right?

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Everything is sales. You've got to be selling yourself, your product, your service constantly. So you can't say you don't like sales and you can't say that you don't like financial stuff and numbers because you've got to work the numbers for your business. You've got to figure out how you're going to fund your business, even if it's a very small business.

BOBBI REBELL:
Tell us more about where people can find out more information about you, your book, and all your social channels so we can follow you.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
You can read more about my book on my website, kathrynsollman.com, and Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram can all be found under @kathrynsollman.

BOBBI REBELL:
Wonderful. Thank you, Kathryn.

KATHRYN SOLLMAN:
Thank you. So great to be with you.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey everyone. As I mentioned at the top, Katherine is very tough in her stance on the fact that women must always earn money. And that comes from personal experience, but still, financial grownup tip number one, no judging. Kathryn makes her point very well. She did her homework. It's a really well researched book and I live by most of her advice already in my own life, but part of being a financial grownup is understanding that there is a human element to money and an emotional element to the decisions that we make and all the decisions that go around our financial lives.

BOBBI REBELL:
Everyone faces different situations and there may be many seasons in one's life when a regular paycheck or earning power is just not as important as other things. Don't get me wrong, we must all be vigilant about financial security, but let's not judge if someone makes a decision that, from the outside, doesn't look good. Sometimes, by the way, it may look like somebody's choosing not to work or not to earn money, but in fact, they may be trying and just not have been that successful. Be a friend.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial gonna tip number two. One idea in Kathryn's book that I loved was not to worry so much about work life balance, but to focus on blending. Maybe don't put pressure on yourself to turn off communication with work the minute you get home. It may work for some people, but it's okay if you give her child a bath, for example, and then you take a work call, and then you do story time. And maybe your kids stays up a little later than you wanted or whatever. Do what works for you to maintain your career path.

BOBBI REBELL:
And by the way, it is more than okay for your kids to know that you have other responsibilities and that paying attention to those other responsibilities may help pay, literally, for the fun things that you do together like your next vacation. Put them on your team, include them. Let them know that their good behavior and understanding when you have to do some work, even when it's supposed to be their time, helps the whole family.

BOBBI REBELL:
Katherine very generously sent along a signed copy of her book, Ambition Redefined: Why The Corner Office Doesn't Work For Every Woman And What To Do Instead for one lucky listener. To win, all you have to do is DM me with your takeaway from the episode. You can do it on Instagram @bobbirebell1, on Twitter @bobbirebell, or you can even email us at hello@financialgrownup.com. That is hello@financialgrownup.com.

BOBBI REBELL:
I love talking to Kathryn. She has so much value to add to this conversation. I hope everyone checks out her book, Ambition Redefined, and thank you, Kathryn, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz may be a Financial Grownup but that doesn’t mean all her friends have been able to grow up. Listen to how she works to get them on track. Plus- the president of the Charles Schwab foundation also shares an everyday money tip about making it easier to give to causes you care about. 

In Carrie's money story you will learn:

-How talking about money with your friend can keep you both on track

-The 3 craziest ways someone has tried to make quick cash

-What Carrie's number one priority is when it comes to saving, and how she follows through with it

-Hear why Carrie believes participating in the market is the key to saving for retirement

In Carrie’s money lesson you will learn:

-The one thing every financial professional does to save money and keep themselves on track. 

-The easiest way to be a good financial friend - and a successful financial grownup

In Carrie's everyday money tip you will learn:

-The ultimate tax smart way give to charity this holiday season 

In My Take you will learn:

-Carrie's friend from her money story was making some crazy financial decisions, here's how you can be the best financial friend possible without damaging your relationship

-Suggesting financial help to your friends could be the best gift you give this holiday season

Bobbi and Carrie also talk about:

-Carrie helped her friend's daughter pick out a broad-based index funds retirement plan, check out if that could also be right savings plan for you

-Mutual funds, index funds, and retirement plans are something to start thinking about as early as in your twenties. 

EPISODE LINKS

For all of your financial planning questions check out Ask Carrie Columns on Schwabmoneywise.com

Follow Carrie!

Twitter: @CarrieSchwab

Facebook: @CarrieSchwabPomerantz

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Her daughter's about to go off to college, she panics, so what does she do? She signs up to drive for Instacart in her red, snazzy car, dropping off groceries at people's homes.

BOBBI REBELL:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together.

BOBBI REBELL:
I'm going to bring you one money store from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, friends. Let's talk about being friends. Are you on track with your goals, but see a train wreck coming with someone you care about? What do you? Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz knows all about it, and has solutions.

BOBBI REBELL:
First, a quick welcome to everyone. If you are just joining us, you are new to the show, so glad you are here. We keep the shows short because you're busy, but if you are commuting or have a little more time, we fully encourage the binge listen.

BOBBI REBELL:
Got a question? We are putting together some upcoming episodes to answer them, so DM us at bobbirebell1 on Instagram, bobbirebell on Twitter, or email us, hello@financialgrownup.com. That is hello@financialgrownup.com.

BOBBI REBELL:
All right, let's get to Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz. I feel like she is the friend we all need in our back pocket. Yes, she is the daughter of Charles Schwab, and she grew up watching her dad build the business through ups and downs; but she is also, as you'll hear, a fantastic role model and financial expert in her own right.

BOBBI REBELL:
And, her story is one that we'll all be able to relate to. Here is Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Thanks, Bobbi, so glad to be here.

BOBBI REBELL:
I am so honored to have you, because you are so accomplished in your own right, even though you get talked about a lot as the daughter of Charles Schwab. We're not going to talk about him.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
No.

BOBBI REBELL:
We're only going to talk about you. You are President of the Charles Schwab Foundation, and this is what really we bonded over, is that we are both certified Financial Planners, so you know your stuff.

BOBBI REBELL:
You got a lot of other letters after your name, but that's the one that is most special to me, so-

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I think so, too. We worked hard, didn't we, Bobbi?

BOBBI REBELL:
We did. That is one hard test, so-

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Yeah, yeah.

BOBBI REBELL:
Big pats on the back to us, and kudos to all the CFPs out there who are doing a lot to support people's financial goals, and to act as fiduciaries, which is a really important thing, as well.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Yeah, and you know, Bobbi, this is how, again, you bring it up. Here we are, two women, and we need so many more women in our field, and I don't think people realize that this is not a field of match, or stem, or whatever.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
It's about helping people achieve financial security, and I think that we absolutely need more women in the industry to help people achieve that.

BOBBI REBELL:
Absolutely, and it's also important to be helping our friends, but that's not always an easy thing to do, which brings us to the money story that you're going to share.

BOBBI REBELL:
This is one of the most compelling stories that I have heard yet, because it really goes to the heart of what challenges us when it comes to money, and that is the human side.

BOBBI REBELL:
Tell us your money story, Carrie.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Well, this one's a hard one to share. One of my oldest childhood friends, who I love, she's like a sister to me. She's always struggled with money, always worked, and so forth; so I really respect her financial independence, but she didn't always make good decisions.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
You know? She's not always prioritizing how to spend her earnings. She's a lawyer, by the way, and the one story that just confused me a little bit is ... She has a daughter that went on to college, and she was ... She had been saving for her daughter's college education, but I guess she didn't quite have enough money, and she panicked.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
My girlfriend had been driving a Tesla, much to my chagrin.

BOBBI REBELL:
For those that don't know, what do Teslas go for about? Are they over $100000?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I think they're about $90000. Yeah, I imagine ... Definitely not in my budget. And so, she's driving these $90000, her daughter's about to go off to college, she panics, so what does she do? She signs up to drive for Instacart in her red, snazzy car, dropping off groceries at people's homes.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I had to think to myself, “What's with this?” You know? “Tesla and driving for Instacart? Where are our priorities?”

BOBBI REBELL:
What do you do as a friend when you see a friend making what in your mind are irrational money decisions?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
You know, that's a hard conversation to have, I have to tell you. And, she has had this tendency ... I'll tell you another little story about her. She would buy tickets, like the Rolling Stones would come to town, buy expensive tickets in hopes that she could sell them for a profit.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
And, guess what? She can't sell them, so she comes to me and my sister in hopes we'll buy them.

BOBBI REBELL:
Oh, my goodness.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Yeah, so I just finally ... I had to have some words and some tough love conversations with her, but, you know, the Tesla one, the most recent one ... she kind of knows how I feel. I just have to smile, and grin, and bear it.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
You know, “Why didn't you just get a Prius?” Because she wanted to go across the bridge, I guess you couldn't go through the fast lane, and so forth; but I would not say there's an easy conversation.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I would say I have little conversations along the way, about the importance of having your priorities straight, and really making number one priority, saving and investing for your retirement.

BOBBI REBELL:
I'm curious, do people come to you, your friends, informally for advice all the time? Kind of like the doctor that goes to parties and everyone says, “Oh, I've got this little bark here, can you tell me what it is?” Do you get that a lot?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
I get it a lot, and to be honest with you, I so appreciate it. A girlfriend of mine, her daughter just got her first job in an investment bank, and I asked right away ... Specially for a young woman, I would say, “Have you started saving in your 401k?” And she said, “No, just because I don't know what to do.”

CARRIE SCHWAB:
She's in New York, and I'm in San Francisco, and I said, “Email me your options at your 401k,” so I took a look at them. I even consulted with one of our Financial Consultants who looks at this stuff every day, and we both agreed that she should be invested in a broad-based index fund that was offered within her plan.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
To me, it's all about participating in the market, specially for young people. When you're talking about retirement, you're talking about up to 40 years, potentially.

BOBBI REBELL:
Yes, we live a long time now.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
We live a long time, and put even more than 40 years, so it's so important to invest in a diversified portfolio of stocks, like a mutual fund, or an index fund. It's about participating in the market, it's not about picking the hot stock, or the hot mutual fund.

BOBBI REBELL:
Totally agree, so what is your advice, your takeaway in terms of being a financial friend? Admit it, you've had mixed success at. What is your advice for our listeners when they do see friends doing things that they know are not in their best financial interest?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Steer your friends towards professional help; and I would also say there's no shame in getting help. I tell people all the time that even I have a registered Investment Advisor, and even the professionals get help, because it takes the emotion out of it, it makes you accountable. Right?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Because, you know, you're showing up, you're meeting with your representative, and you learn, and you get better results. Give them somebody you totally trust, and then you can take it out and not sort of saturate yourself from the situation.

BOBBI REBELL:
So, Carrie, for your everyday money tip, it is almost holiday season, time to be thinking ... Hopefully we think about it all year-round, but time to be thinking, maybe a little more focused on giving to charity; and there is a way to do this where you often get more bang for your buck, as does the charity. Tell us more.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
The secret is a donor-advised fund. Most financial institutions have them. Schwab has one, I'm Chair of the Board, and basically you can open one up for as little as $5000. The way to make it tax smart is donate appreciated stock, that way you're not paying taxes, and you have more money going to the charity, and then ...

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Whatever amount it is, let's just say $10000, you get to deduct that from your taxes for that particular year. Then, you can take your time on what charities you want to choose from.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Basically there's a search button. We probably have almost all of the non-profits in the system, you point and click, put how much money you want, press “Send,” and we do all the leg work to get that check out to charity.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
And, what we find, is that 90% of our users say they give more to charity, because of the donor advise fund.

BOBBI REBELL:
Wonderful. Tell us more about how people can learn more about you, your work at Schwab. I love your personal Twitter feed, it's awesome. You really have great, inspiring-

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Oh, thank you.

BOBBI REBELL:
Messages on there. Where can people find out more?

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Well, you can follow me @carrieschwab, and you can also follow on Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz on Facebook, and I have a lot of my content, my Ask Carrie columns, personal finance columns.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Or, if you want an educational site, I highly recommend schwabmoneywise.com. It does have my Ask Carrie columns, but it has lots of tools, and calculators, and information about every aspect about personal finance; and it's for all levels of knowledge around finance.

BOBBI REBELL:
Yes. I have been on the site many times. It is very well done, highly recommend, and highly recommend listening to you more. Thank you so much, Carrie, this has been wonderful.

CARRIE SCHWAB:
Oh, so much fun working with you, Bobbi.

BOBBI REBELL:
Hey, everyone. Love how much you can tell that despite her frustration, Carrie really cares about her friends. Let's get to my tips.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial grownup tip number one. Carrie held back from saying what I would have said to her friend, which is, “Sell the car already!” I know that cars depreciate in value, and so it's hard because you kind of feel like you're losing money, but really, if she needed the cash, why not just downgrade to that less expensive electric car right now?

BOBBI REBELL:
And, while her friend was at it, maybe there are other things that she can sell that she truly isn't using to pay for her daughter's tuition, rather than be delivering groceries in fancy, red, sports cars.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial grownup tip number two. Adding to Carrie's advice, to bring in a third party for financial advice. Very often, the best way to help a friend is often to only be a friend. Bring in professionals to help with, maybe not only the financial stuff, but also when it comes to relationship issues or other major life crises.

BOBBI REBELL:
Not that you can't listen and be supportive. Of course you should, as a friend, but pushing them to make a decision that is obvious to you, and usually the world, could also backfire on your friendship and have long-term ramifications; because the truth is, as much as I think Carrie should have been even more blunt with her friend, and tell her to sell that Tesla already, every time the friend missed her Tesla she could potentially resent Carrie.

BOBBI REBELL:
And, it would take a big toll on their friendship, so it's really a delicate thing. I think Carrie had great advice.

BOBBI REBELL:
Thanks to all of you for supporting the show. One way to do that is to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, aka iTunes, or wherever you listen to Financial Grownup. I read every one, and they are truly appreciated.

BOBBI REBELL:
Also appreciated, Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz, whose great story of friendship and money really helped bring us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

BOBBI REBELL:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Boreland Group Founder and CEO Jennefer Witter learned early on that the best way to get clients was to offer extreme value. But to stay in business, and continue to serve the clients, the author of the Little Book of Big PR also learned when to put the brakes on the discounts. 

In Jennefer’s money story you will learn:

-How to utilize a current network to create a new one

-Why Jennefer values transparency with her clients and how it helped her build a business

-Ways to find out what to charge new clients

In Jennefer’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to create meaningful relationships with new clients

-Three ways to look at the return on investment

-Why Jennefer always sets a definite stop date with her clients

In Jennefer's everyday money tip you will learn:

-The one question Jennefer asks that saves her small business big bucks

-Why it's good to be aggressive in business negotiations

In My Take you will learn:

-Take an angle that makes you eligible for discounts

-Why sometimes working for free has the biggest pay off

Bobbi and Jennefer also talk about:

-Jennefer mentioned that she gets a small business discount for ProfNet, which helps her public relations company get leads

EPISODE LINKS:

Jennefer's book is available online here

Check out The Boreland Group's website here

Follow Jennefer! 

Twitter: @JenneferTBG

Linked In: @Jennefer Witter

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Jennefer W.:
It was a six month program, and yes I invested, when you added up over $10,000, but what I got back through that $10,000, was multiples in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to, Financial Grownup, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of, How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grown-up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story, from a financial grown-up, one lesson, and then, my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, financial grown-up friends. Every business, or pretty much every business, I would think, starts as a start-up, and every business has to get that very first sale, and that very first client, and to make it happen, in most cases, that first client, that first sale, the business owner has to be willing to lose money on the bet, that they will win over that first client, and build from there, but many businesses make a mistake, in that, they don't really set the expectations right, and then when they do have to raise the price, so that they can actually make money, they get backlash, because the client's expectations were not aligned with the realities of the business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Our guest, public relations whiz, Jennefer Witter, who is the head of, The Boreland Group, and by the way, literally, wrote the book on PR. It's called, The Little Book of Big PR, was careful in her approach at that delicate start-up stage, and it has served her well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. We have a lot of new listeners, that we are very excited about. The show's are short, about 15 minutes, because you're busy, but of course, you can binge, stack a few together. Maybe if you're commuting, have a little more time to listen. Consider it flextime for podcasts, and with that, let's get to our amazing guest. Here is Jennefer Witter.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Jennefer Witter. You are a financial grown-up. Welcome to the podcast.

Jennefer W.:
I am so thrilled to be on, Bobbi. How are you?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm excited to finally snag you. You are one busy lady. You are, the CEO and Founder of the boutique, Boreland Group, and you're also the author of a book that I loved reading, 'cause I'm kind of on the other side of it. It's The Little Book of Big PR, which is awesome, and it really is a little book.

Jennefer W.:
It's a tiny little book. It's a paperback, softcover. You can also get it as an e-book, and I wanted it to be little, because you know what it's like as an entrepreneur.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Jennefer W.:
You have some things on your desk. You have to do this. You have to do that. You don't want to be reading, War and Peace.

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Jennefer W.:
So, with the full book of Big PR, the full title is, The Little Book of Big PR: 100+ Quick Tips to Get Your Small Business Noticed, is you can read a chapter here, a chapter there, or you can read it all at once, and it will not take you more than a couple of hours to read it, and you walk away with information that you can readily use in your business practice.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that, and you are an entrepreneur. Your business has grown, but when it first started, you had to make some difficult choices, and we always say, "Don't undervalue yourself. Don't give away services for free, but it's kind of complicated." Tell us your mini story.

Jennefer W.:
Well, here's the thing. When I first started The Boreland Group, it was 15 years ago. I really didn't think about becoming an entrepreneur. So, when I decided to do it, it was just like, "You know what? I don't have clients. I don't have any income coming in."

Jennefer W.:
So, I reached out to everybody that I knew, and I said, "Do you know of somebody, who is looking for a boutique public relations firm?" And I got one response back, after sending out like 200 emails, and it was a friend of mine, and he said, "I have a friend, who's sister-in-law is looking for a publicist." And when I met with her, she did not want to pay what I was charging at that time, and so, what I decided to do was invest, because I only was going to have one client, and I knew that once I got that one client, once I got that chance, I would have those doors open.

Jennefer W.:
So, what I did was, she paid me [crosstalk 00:04:20].

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Let me just stop you there. So, you say what you were charging, but the truth is, you were charging no one because you had no clients.

Jennefer W.:
No. No clients.

Bobbi Rebell:
This was your first client. Right. So, you had an idea of what you wanted to charge, but you didn't have a rate that you were getting. So, you needed to start building your client roster.

Jennefer W.:
Oh, absolutely, and so what I did with this one client was, and I'll give everything as transparent. I charged her $1,800.00 a month. One thousand, eight hundred dollars, and then, I invested another $1,800.00 into her. So, it normally would have been $3,600.00, but I was only getting back $1,800.00.

Jennefer W.:
Now, you may say, "You're giving away your services." And I absolutely was, but I knew that once people saw what I was doing, getting her into the media, getting her speaking opportunities, that I would be able to build upon this client that I had, into a client portfolio, and after [crosstalk 00:05:16].

Bobbi Rebell:
Was this client, Jennifer, let me ask you, was she aware? Did she really only have budget for $1,800.00, and was she aware that she was getting, quote, double the value of what you felt you should be paid?

Jennefer W.:
Oh, she was absolutely aware, and what I told her was, for this first six months, I would charge her $1,800.00, and at the end of the six months, it would go up to the $3,600.00. So, she was fully aware, and I wrote a program, and I said, "This is what you're going to get overall." And I said, "This part you're going to be paying for. This part is what I'm investing in." And I put together a plan, that was very tight, because you have to be careful about such things. You don't want to say, "I'm going to give you $1,800.00." And you wind up giving somebody $5,000.00. You definitely need to have parameters, that you don't sink yourself before you swim, and once I started to do that, and then I started leveraging, and I'd say, "I have this client. This is what we're doing."

Jennefer W.:
When I was meeting with the media, some of the media saw what I was doing, and they sent some direct clients over to her, and at the end of the six months, I did a new program for her at the full price, $3,600.00, and she knew that it was coming. She saw the work that I was doing. She appreciated everything that I was doing, and more than that, she saw the value. She signed the account. I got paid the $3,600.00. I had other clients, who were paying that amount, and my business was based on an investment, that I knew would pay off in the long run, and it did.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what is the takeaway for our listeners? Among young people, there's a lot of talk coming up in business, that it's really important to be aggressive with your pricing, and not undersell yourself.

Jennefer W.:
You know, I wasn't underselling myself, and you have to want to give, in order to get, and when you have zero clients, and you have the opportunity to get a client, who you know will be the foundation of growing your business, you need to take that step, and you need to invest, and know that at the end of that six months, or whatever timeframe you're going to get your money back. You have to look at the big picture. You have to be long term, and you have to look at that ROI, the return on investment. It can't stretch out forever in eternity.

Jennefer W.:
You need to have a definite stop date, which is exactly what I did with this client. It was a six month program, and yes I invested, when you added up over $10,000.00, but what I got back through that $10,000.00, was multiples in return.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is a great story. Let's talk about your every day money tip, because it also pertains to when you start a business, and you're the small guy, you still need to have the tools, that the big guys have, but they are expensive. So, you have a tip on how you can save, if you are an individual, or a small boutique business, and you have to be assertive about it. Go for it.

Jennefer W.:
Oh, absolutely, and what you need to do, this is what I did. I am a small business. I've always been a small business, and whenever you're going out for products and services, if it's expensive, you know you have to use it, but tell them, "You know what? I'm a small business. Do you have a small business discount? What can you give me? I'm not the Edelmanns, or the Ketchums of the world. I'm not pulling in like $30-$40 million a year. I'm pulling in a fraction, but what I am is a client, and there's more of me than there are of the Ketchums, and the Edelmanns, and the large corporations."

Jennefer W.:
So, if you go out there, and you are aggressive, if you are forceful, and you say, "Look, I'm a small business. I'll be a loyal client. Give me that discount, that I know that you can give me." Let me tell you, it works.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just so our listeners who aren't familiar, you were referencing large public relations firms, 'cause you are in the public relations business. So, can you give us a tangible example, of something that you bought when you were starting out, or buy now, and approximately what it would cost for a large business, and approximately what it would cost for a ... how much you can get a discount from, from sort of the list price, so people have an idea of how much you can ask for?

Jennefer W.:
Sure. One of the services that I use is called, ProfNet, and it's specific to the PR community. What it is, you get pushed about 100 leads a day, and you go through them seeing which ones are, that you can respond to. It's from reporters. It's from producers. They're looking for interview topics for the stories that they are writing or producing.

Jennefer W.:
For large companies, it's several thousand dollars a year. I'm not exactly sure. Like $3,000.00 or $4,000.00, and by making it clear, and asking for a discount, and saying that I am a small business, I got it for less than $1,000.00 a year. So, right there and then, I was able to save about, over $2,000.00, that I would have paid ordinarily, if I had not spoken up and say, "Hey, I'm a small business. I'm a solopreneur. What can you do for me?" And it worked, and I saved a lot of money, because of that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can we find you, and find out more about you?

Jennefer W.:
Well, you can always find me on Twitter, which is J-E-N-N-E-F-E-R-T-B-G. You can go to my website, which is The Boreland Group dot com. B-O-R-E-L-A-N-D Group dot com, and I'm on LinkedIn, and again, my first name is spelled funny. It's J-E-N-N-E-F-E-R, and the last name is W-I-T-T-E-R. No h.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there a story behind the spelling of your name?

Jennefer W.:
You know what? I wish. I just think it was a nurse, who spelled it incorrectly. Both parents deny spelling it with the e, and it's on my birth certificate, so it got there some way.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so funny. Okay. Love that, but it sets you apart. So, there you go. We're all unique in our own way. Thank you so much, Jennefer, with an e, Witter. This was amazing. Thank you.

Jennefer W.:
Thank you, Bobbi, with an I.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, Friends. Alright, let's get right to it. Financial Grownup Tip Number One: Jennefer does a great job asking for discounts, because she is running a small business. That is the angle that she uses. So, think about what your angle is. There's countless ways for you to get a better price, or a better deal in some way, on just about anything, work or personal. You gotta find your angle.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of my favorite ways to get a discount on something that I need, for example, for my business, but don't want to pay the full price, or can't afford the full price. Maybe it's not in my budget. I say that. I just reach out and say to the vendor, "That's just not in my budget right now. Will you be in touch, if and when you have something that's an alternative to the offering, or maybe you can offer me a price reduction, an option that can work within my budget?"

Bobbi Rebell:
I have always gotten a response, and in almost every case, we've been able to work out a way for me to become a client, because ultimately, that's what they want. They want to get you in to their system, as a client, at some level, and then hopefully, later on down the road, they can increase how much you're spending, because you'll see the value in the product.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number Two: So, here's the flip side of all that. The most important part of Jennefer's money story, isn't that she lowered the price for her client, or did some of the work for free, however you want to look at it. To get a new client, it's that she had a strategy to end it. Expectations were set right at the outset. So, let's just say, you're on the other side of the business that I just talked about, where you had a business owner like myself coming to you saying, "It's just not in my budget." And you work out a deal to get me onboard. The important thing is to set expectations to say, "Okay, we're gonna do this for one year, and then, in a year when you see the value and hopefully your business is doing better, and your budget would have increased, you're gonna come in at the regular price." And they're hoping, that I, the business owner, will see the value.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, it's important, as Jennefer did, to work with clients when they need you to work with them, but also have them recognize that they are getting something of value, that maybe they're not paying the full price for, and that the expectation is, down the road, the price will meet the level that it needs to be at, for the business owner to sustain their business, because at the end of the day, if you enjoy doing business with somebody, you like their product, you want them to stay in business, and to do so, you need to make a profit. All good things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another great thing. If you enjoyed this podcast, let a friend know. Help us grow the show. Also, share it on social media. On Twitter, I am at Bobbi Rebell. On Instagram at Bobbi Rebell One, and DM me with your feedback. A lot of you have been doing that, and it's really great for me to hear which episodes really resonate, and what you want to hear more of, and maybe what you're not that into. That's okay too.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love hearing all of it, and as I have mentioned on previous episodes, we are now gearing up to do bonus episodes, which will include listener questions. So, send them in. You can DM me on the socials that I just mentioned, or you can email me them at, hello at Financial Grownup dot com. That's, hello at Financial Grownup dot com.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of Jennefer's. She has so much to offer. Do check out her book, The Little Book of Big PR, and of course, The Boreland Group, and thank you, Jennefer, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grown-ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, is edited and produced by, Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media Production.

Behavioural Scientist and Good Money author Nathalie Spencer missed a credit card payment. Then she missed another. But she finally managed to stop the cycle after putting a grownup plan in place.  

In Nathalie’s money story you will learn:

-How Nathalie learned from the financial mistakes she made in her 20s

-The mistake she made that caused her to missed two credit card payments in a row

-Three tips Nathalie swears by so she never misses a credit card payment again

In Nathalie’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to find a balance between micro-managing money and forgetting to pay bills

-How automation makes financially growing up a little bit easier

In Nathalie's everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to treat yourself and your budget

-The little thing Nathalie does before finance meetings to put her mind at ease

In My Take you will learn:

-What happens after you forget a credit card payment and ways to fix it

-How paying and reviewing bills can actually save you money

EPISODE LINKS:

Nathalie's book is available online here

Follow Nathalie! 

Twitter: @economiclogic

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

nathalie Spence:
I missed another credit card payment. It's not even that I didn't have the money. It's just that I just wasn't paying attention. I didn't have the head space.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, Financial Grownup Friends. You know what old expression, "The dog ate my homework." For not paying your credit card, let's make it, "I just didn't have the head space," because, as you heard, that's all that was going on with our guest. She just didn't have the head space. Nathalie Spencer, not a highly accomplished behavioral scientist and author, had the money just not the head space.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. If you are new, we are so excited that you found us. We share money stories from high achievers, along with practical every day money tips that you can put to work right away. We keep the episodes to about 15 minutes, but feel free to binge on a few if you have a little more time today.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, let's talk about Nathalie Spencer. I was so taken with her book, Good Money: Understand Your Choices, Boast Your Financial Well Being. It is totally different from many money books that I have read, and I read a lot. I loved this book, and I'm going to talk to Nathalie about your unique approach to helping people find their financial wellness. Here is Good Money author Nathalie Spencer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Nathalie Spencer. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

nathalie Spence:
Thanks. Great to speak with you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Loved your new books, Good Money: Understand Your Choices, Boast Your Financial Wellness because you are a behavioral scientist. In fact, you work at the Common Wealth Bank of Australia, and you bring a very different perspective to money and financial education.

nathalie Spence:
That's right. Yeah, so the book Good Money is about the behavior science of financial well being, and what that really means is that we look at psychology and decision making science, and we try to uncover why managing money can actually feel really difficult but then also provide some practical tips for how we can get through that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you pay have been inspired by your own behavior in your 20s. Tell us your money story, Nathalie.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, that's right. So my money story is that I missed a credit card payment, and then the next month I missed another credit card payment. And the thing is that it's not even that I didn't have the money. It's just that I just wasn't paying attention. I didn't have the head space. Like everyone, I felt busy. I was working, volunteering, social obligations, all this stuff, and I just really wasn't paying attention. So, of course, I got slapped with a penalty fee and interest started growing on my balance. When I realized this, I called the credit card company to contest it. Somehow I could find time to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you had to at that point. You had to deal with it.

nathalie Spence:
Well, that's right. Yes. So I had to deal with. I had to pay for it. But also, I thought, "Ah well. I'll just see if I can get this charged reversed." But even on the phone, I could tell that just saying, "Oh, well I just wasn't paying attention," was not really a good enough excuse. So this was a huge wake up call for me, and there were a couple things that came from it. So one, I realized that I needed to start paying attention to my finances, and I did. I started to do so. But also it was that it doesn't have to be so hard, and that there are things that I can do to make it easier. So what I did after that call was I set up reminders. So then I would get a text message a few days before my credit card bill was due, and I also set up a direct debit. The direct debit was for the minimum repayment amount. So what this did was that hopefully I wouldn't forget to pay again because I'd get the reminders, but even if I did forget, I had built in the protection so that I wouldn't have to pay a penalty charge.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, now that you have a career as a behavioral scientist, what do you think was going on in your mind, if you could analyze your 20 something self?

nathalie Spence:
Well, I think it was simply I wasn't paying attention. Managing money can be kind of boring, and it felt like it wasn't top of mind for me. I was just going around kind of spending mindlessly on my credit card and not really thinking about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what are the takeaways for our listeners?

nathalie Spence:
So I think one is on a more general scale and that's that you can design your life in a way that you make it easier for yourself. So behavioral science can tell us a lot about our choices with money, and then when we understand how those concepts apply to our own lives, in our own context, in our own situations, then we're able to put systems or processes in place to help us, to help ourselves out really to manage money better. And then I'd say that probably more specifically that automation is so great, especially if you don't want to be spending all of your time kind of micro managing all of your finances and thinking about it day and night. Automation is just great. It makes easy. And what you can do is you can require a little bit of up front effort and cognitive effort there to make sure that you're automating something that you can afford in the long term. But once you start it up, then you can just kind of put it to the side and forget it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So let's talk about your every day money tip because I'm very intrigued by the term temptation bundling.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, that's right. So my money tip is for anybody that finds managing their money kind of a drag. If you find personal finance management a chore, then what you can do is bundle it with a treat or a temptation, that's where the term temptation bundling comes from. And the key here is to make sure that you resist the temptation and only do that when you are managing your money then. So, for example, my husband and I do this. Once per month, we have a personal finance meeting. Thrilling, I know. But what we do is we make sure that we go around the corner to the bakery and we get coffees and pastries beforehand, and then we bring them back home and we have a personal finance meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it softens the blow.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it makes it something that you're not really dreading because you're getting a treat also.

nathalie Spence:
Exactly. And it actually serves two purposes. So, first of all, it helps make the personal finance meeting feel a little bit more fun and less morning, but also it keeps me from buying a croissant every single morning because I know I can only get it when I'm doing my personal finance meeting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Have you ever snuck one, Nathalie, come on?

nathalie Spence:
Well, yeah. Maybe one or two.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Good Money because there's a lot of scientific backing to everything you talk about, but at the same time, these are really every day issues that we all have to face. So, for example, one thing that I thought was really interesting in your book was how cashless transactions can actually effect how we spend our money.

nathalie Spence:
Yes. That's right. This is really interesting because with new technology, so many people want our payment mechanisms to be faster and easier and slicker and from like a user design perspective, of course, that's a really good goal is to have these new technologies like apps or pay and wave or tap and go be very easy. That's great. It has a lot of benefits. But there's also a downside in that the less noticeable payment is and the less friction there is there, then the easier it is to spend mindlessly. So, again, it can kind of feel like you're on autopilot and just kind of going through and spending quite easily.

Bobbi Rebell:
And as someone who has never seen a sale that I did not like. I mean, the friends and family stuff that's going on in New York City right now is out of control. I'm so tempted. Why is it that when we feel that something is a bargain, I mean, it's so difficult to resist?

nathalie Spence:
Well, that's exactly it. Well, there are a lot of things that might be going on that retailers can do to get us to spend more money. One is that when you see the original price and then you see the sale price, what you're doing is you're comparing the sale price to the original price. So, of course, it seems like a fantastic deal. Let's say, I don't know, you're spending $50 on something that's marked down from $100. Well, it feels fantastic. But actually, if you hadn't see the original price, the question that you should ask yourself is would you have paid $50 for this anyway?

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know that we would have, but I can't buy something. I don't want to buy something full price. That's just so crazy. Why do we do that to ourselves, Nathalie? Tell us.

nathalie Spence:
I don't know. I'm a victim to it as well. But having the original price there can really tempt us into thinking that it's a good deal.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tell us where we can find your book and where we can find out more about you.

nathalie Spence:
Yeah, great. So Good Money is available in the U.S. and the UK, Canada, and Australia at all of the major bookstores. So you can find it online or on shelves. And you can follow me on Twitter @economiclogic.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Nathalie.

nathalie Spence:
Thanks so much, Bobbie. Great talking to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. Love hearing about the psychology of how we spend money from Nathalie. The book really is fascinating in all the data and analysis of why we do the things we do when it comes to money. Let's get to my take on Nathalie's story though. To some degree, this is an easy one because I could just say, guys, automate your bills. But let's actually move past that. Financial Grownup Tip #1: if you do mess up, after you put the systems in place and automate, as Nathalie and pretty much every financial expert will tell you to do, make the phone call. Get the person on the phone to undo the damage. Credit card companies will often give you a one time pass, sometimes more on the fees even if it was your fault. So take the time to ask for the penalty to be removed, even if you were actually the one that messed up. Also, know how your credit works in terms of the interest. In some cases if you don't clear the entire balance, you may still pay interest charges. So when you make that call, ask exactly how the interest works.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip #2: just because you automate the payment, doesn't mean you don't open the bills every month. Go through the charges. I have made this mistake because the bills paid, so my stress. But then you go to check the bill after skipping for a few months and you realize that maybe you're paying something that you didn't realize, like a subscription renewal. If you catch it right away, you have a good chance of canceling. But if you have, for example, a kit's annual membership and then you miss the payments for a few months, it is a tougher argument to make. So automate it but don't forget it. And of course it goes without saying that you should be looking at those bills because there could also be fraudulent charges on there. Sometimes criminals will test charging something with very small amounts to see if you notice, and then gradually work up to larger amounts. So it's really important to be vigilant and check those bills even if you automate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Loved Nathalie's book Good Money. Please do check it out. As I said, totally different approach, data, science, all that. Worth the focus that you do need to have. This is not a quick, easy page turner. This is a deep book, and it has a lot of pictures so it makes it really interesting. And the illustrations are good. But this is science. This is the real deal. I love this book. You can tell. You get out of it what you put into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So thank you for your candor, Nathalie, with your story. Thank you for helping us understand how and why we spend the way we do, and, of course, thank you for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Steward and is a BRK Media production.

In Jerry’s money story you will learn:

-How Jerry learned the hard way that looking like you make money doesn't mean you do

-Three ways to deal with difficult people in the work places

-The benefits of having a career mentor

-Why Jerry sold all of his cars and his motorcycles and what it did for his budget

In Jerry’s money lesson you will learn:

-The simplest way to figure out financial assets and liabilities

-Jerry's two tips for figuring out where in the budget to cut down on spending

In Jerry’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Where to buy luxury brands like Nike and Adidas for less

-The best athletic clothes that will last a long time

In My Take you will learn:

-Why it's important to keep an open mind and look past first impressions

-What T.J. Maxx, Marshalls, and other retailers have to offer when it comes to workout clothes

Bobbi and Jerry also talk about: 

-Check out the luxury athletic clothing brands we mentioned, Nike and Adidas.

EPISODE LINKS:

Order Jerry's book "Guns, Drugs, or Wealth" here

Follow Jerry!

Instagram: @realJerryFord

Twitter: @realJerryFord

Facebook: @realJerryFord

On this Financial Grownup podcast episode Jerry Ford helps us to learn how we can get the best deals on work out clothes. #Podcast #MoneyTips

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Jerry Ford:
I sold all of my cars, all of my motorcycles. I paid off my credit cards. I spend three hundred dollars a month on Uber pool and that's cheaper than any car note that you can get. And I set a seventy dollar budget for food per week.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown-up, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of “How to be a Financial Grown-up”, but you know what, being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, were gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this!

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey financial grown up friends! Love this guest because Jerry Ford, who you'll hear from in just a few minutes, is just a little bit different from the typical guest that we have on here, in that he is not from a money expert background. In fact, he's a celebrity fitness guy, and he came to being a financial grown up really after he had money. And then he realized that he wasn't actually using all that money and there was a good amount of money. He wasn't using the money in a very grown up way, and some really scary things could have happened but fortunately he found a mentor that took him under his wing and set him straight before things went really down hill.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome everyone. Thank you for investing your time in yourself and in learning from the high achievers that we have on the show. If you're enjoying it, remember the show is free. All we ask is that you help us grow the show by paying it forward and telling a friend that you think might enjoy the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's go to our guest. Jerry Ford is a celebrity fitness trainer turned author. He overcame intercity poverty, violence, personal tragedy, to get where he is today, which is pretty incredible when you hear his story. His book and this title kind of threw me off when I heard it and then when I understood what it was about I had to have him on the show. His book, "Guns, Drugs or Wealth" is riveting. Its very candid and I'll bet its unlike anything you've read before. And I want you guys to stay till then the end, we have a big give away. Jerry sent me three signed copies of his book. I'm gonna share details after the interview about how you can win them. Here is "Guns, Drugs or Wealth" author, celebrity fitness trainer, Jerry Ford.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jerry Ford, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jerry Ford:
Hey, thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations are in order. We are taping this before your book has even been released, by the time this is out, your book will be out. But, your book “Guns, Drugs or Wealth” the three income secret to success that took me from the streets of Detroit to the top of my game, is already a number one new release from Amazon and sure to have many more bestseller benchmarks in the weeks to come. So, congratulations.

Jerry Ford:
Thank you, I'm really excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
And were gonna talk more about the great information in the book, including different investing like real estate, stocks and the importance of earning and saving, after your money story, which is about, you're also a trainer I should say out there in L.A. where you are..

Jerry Ford:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
It is about a client that you didn't start off great with, but ended up being a mentor. Maybe this is a little about not judging people on first impressions and being open to people that maybe are very different from you. Go for it.

Jerry Ford:
Yeah, you know what, that's true. So I was twenty-three years old. I was really young. I was working at a gym called The New York Health and Racket Club, and I was by far their superstar trainer. I was young. I had Rolexs, fancy cars. I thought I knew it all.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, wait, wait. How are you buying this Jerry?

Jerry Ford:
You know what, I was top five in this company. This really luxury company called New York Health and Racket Club. And I was one of their top level trainers, I was training maybe two hundred and ten hours a month. Each session after you get bonus, after hitting a certain amount of hours that is unreal, I made maybe a hundred and ten dollars a session.

Bobbi Rebell:
And how many sessions a week?

Jerry Ford:
I was doing maybe two hundred and ten sessions a month.

Bobbi Rebell:
So they give you a new client and what happens?

Jerry Ford:
So now I'm thinking, you know, this client wants to work out six days a week. And he was calling two sessions, every session. So this guy was paying me double for every session.

Bobbi Rebell:
How old was he?

Jerry Ford:
This guy at the time was about fifty years old. This was maybe seven to ten years ago.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay

Jerry Ford:
And I said this is gonna be a breeze. This is nothing. All this guy wanted was abs. I said this is gonna be more luxury items for me, because at the time I thought that if you look like money that people would spend money on you, which is true but you can't take that too far. Right, so. So, I stared training this guy and little did I know he was the biggest jerk that I've ever met in my life. I mean, he would tell me to explain everything we were doing in two seconds and like snap his fingers and tell me to go as if he was timing me for my response. I mean I would drive to work in the morning time playing scenarios in my head, like literally cursing this old man out.

Jerry Ford:
And so six months later he tried to convince me that a chest press didn't work the chest. So, I kind of, you know, popped him on the shoulder and firmly explained, how a chest press worked your chest, you know. And he kind of stood there and shook his head and said, “Okay, fine.” But at that time, it was almost as if he was done testing me. You know from that day forward, we became best friends, mentor, kind of like a father/son relationship, it was strange. We talked every day about everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. So, basically, he was waiting for you to push back.

Jerry Ford:
He was waiting for me to push back in a professional strong sense. Because we argue every day but he always enjoyed the fact that he got under my skin. So, he was testing me, waiting for me to push back in a certain way.

Bobbi Rebell:
And tell me what you learned from him.

Jerry Ford:
Everything. So before I moved to Los Angeles, he helped me build my portfolio. I mean to a “T”. He helped me gain a lot of passive income, and he taught me just everyday life lessons about being a businessman. So, when I moved to LA I was still the same, I started working at another gym, but I was training even more high end clients, I was training royal family members, celebrities, other taste makers. And then I got fired from Equinox. And when I got fired from Equinox I think that shook me out of being a superstar trainer for a corporation, for a gym.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why were you fired?

Jerry Ford:
I was fired for working out with one of my clients, which, when I first came to Equinox, Equinox was the gym, when I first came to Equinox because I had so many taste makers and so many celebrities and so many models back in New York I was able to work out with a lot of those people because, you know, models are at a certain level to where sometimes they don't want to you to train them and stand over them. They want you to work out with them. And in this case, a lot of my models, they were just a lot more when I worked out with them. I called Bill and I said, “Okay, very few people, make, one percent of the world make what you make. So, how did you do it?” And it was kind of silence over the phone and he was kinda like, “Oh, you gotta be good looking and the rest would flow.” It was like a joke, it was a joke, he's always joking. I'm like dude I'm not laughing, like how did you do it?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, you're ready.

Jerry Ford:
I'm like ready to go and he's like, “You know what, when you gonna be in New York next? Well talk about it.” And I'm a all or nothing guy so I said, “Dude I'm hopping on the next plane to New York tonight.” So I went to LAX literally with nothing, I went to LAX, I hopped on a plane and went to New York on the red eye. The next morning, I went to Bill's house or his estate, he opened the door and literally I said, “Let's get to work. I need to figure out how you did this.” So he was like, “Oh cool your jets, and you know well talk about it.” So we ate some breakfast, we sat at the table, and he looked at me. And this guy, right now he's like a best friend but, he's your classical Wall Street fast talking, New York [inaudible 00:08:35].

Jerry Ford:
He says, "What's the difference between us?" I said, "No liability." And I'm thinking, man we've been over this so many times. And he's like "No, what's the difference?" And I explained how assets put money in your pocket and liabilities are obligations that they take money out of your pocket. And he says, "Exactly!" So then he did something that was life changing. He handed me a pen and a piece of paper and he said, "Okay. Write your assets down in one column and write your liabilities downs in another column." And literally I remember to this day, it was liabilities, rent, BMW payment, Porsche payment, motorcycle payment, insurance for all cars, AMEX credit card payment a month, Capital One credit card payment per month, phone bill, utilities, clubbing all weekends with royalty clients, shoes, watches, restaurants. It was terrible. And asset column was stock portfolio and personal training.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow!

Jerry Ford:
And so he said, “I want you to reduce your liabilities and then come back to New York and we can get started.” So, I hopped on a plane back to LA. Bobbi, I sold all of my cars. I literally sold all of my cars, all of my motorcycles. I paid off my credits cards. I started to Uber pool, because I spend three dollars a month on Uber pool and that's cheaper than any car payment. I factor with car note and gas and occasional parking tickets, its cheaper than any car note that you can get. And I set a seventy dollar budget for food per week. After that I called Bill back, I said, "Okay, I sold everything. I'm ready to go". He thought I was nuts, but he could not deny that I was ready to build wealth. So he says, “Okay, are you gonna fly back.” I said, “No, due to the budget that I've set for myself, I'm calling you this time.”

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, so what is the lesson for our listeners?

Jerry Ford:
So, the lesson for the listeners is, I suggest that everybody write down their liabilities and their assets. And, just you seeing them in the columns, you would then be able to say, okay I don't need this, I don't need that, I don't nee this. And I advise people to buy more assets and less liabilities. But, you have to see it on paper.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright Jerry. What is your everyday money tip? Cause, you spend a lot of time in gym clothes. Is it really worth spending so much money on fancy gym clothes?

Jerry Ford:
Well you know what, you can go to some of these brands, so Nike and Adidas and all these luxury brands, places like Big Five have these same brands, but its just a lot cheaper. And, I wear gym clothes all day so I save a lot of money, right. And I wear gym clothes and then I throw on my luxury watch and luxury items and that makes me look a little more fancy.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, is it worth paying up for the more expensive work out clothes brands? I mean, obviously, if you're gonna buy them, you wanna buy them somewhere you can get a discount if that's possible. But, are they better?

Jerry Ford:
You know what, I think they are better, because I've taken Nike pants, Nike outfits, I've had them, and they've lasted longer than workout clothes from Target. You know, its kinda like, Oh you wash these clothes, and you wonder why they ripping up so much. It's because those luxury brands have better material.

Bobbi Rebell:
So they really are better.

Jerry Ford:
They really are better.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, lets talk about your already bestselling book. Tell us more.

Jerry Ford:
So, this book is about building wealth through real estate, stocks and smart spending. But, I tell it as a personal trainer, but more importantly, I tell it in laments terms, as more of a porch casual conversation.

Jerry Ford:
Its kind of like if Jay-Z and Warren Buffet came out with a how-to guide on building wealth. "Guns, Drugs or Wealth" would be it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And its inspired by your actual life.

Jerry Ford:
It is inspired by my actual life. Its inspired by my actual life, which is coming from Detroit, the hard streets of Detroit, and starting to build wealth like I did.

Bobbi Rebell:
And where can people find you, find out more about you? You have a huge Instagram by the way. Love those videos. I'm ready to go workout right after this interview just from watching those videos. So, everybody, go put on your fancy expensive gym clothes, cause they're apparently worth it, and go work out.

Jerry Ford:
People can find my on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. And my handles are @realJerryFord.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jerry Ford, thank you so much!

Jerry Ford:
Thank you!

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, lets get right into it. Financial grown up tip number one. Be careful about judging people by first impressions. Sometimes even second, third impressions. Jerry basically wrote off his client because, okay the client was such a jerk but, sometimes relationships, including those with mentors or sponsors, they take time to develop. Because the two men spend a lot of time together and Jerry was willing to start listening instead of just putting up with his client the relationship changed. And Jerry came out a big winner.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up tip number two. Let's talk about the fancy gym clothes cause this is something I actually spend way too much time even thinking about. I go back and forth on this. I want to say its worth it to buy the clothes that will last for a decade or whatever. But at the moment that you are actually trying to purchase leggings that cost over a hundred dollars, that's just really hard to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
I recently finally bought one really expensive item, its actually a Lululemon jacket, but only because I had an expiring credit. And I still fell guilty about buying it even though literally I had to use the credit and it was a gift. Here's a work around if you want the best stuff but can't always get over the price. So, for most work out items, the only difference between the new stuff or last season's is the color or the pattern. So this goes for sneakers too. So, look for last seasons of whatever workout gear you want. Stores like T.J.Maxx, Marshalls and then all of these departments stores has these outlet versions, you have like Nordstrom Rack, Sax off Fifth, whatever is near you and they probably also have a lot of this stuff online, those places are great places to look. Also, the quote "We made too many of the fancy boutique brands", they often have last year's style, last season's style, usually just a different color that wasn't as popular. Go work out feeling like a million bucks and maybe be like Jerry and wear a fancy accessory with your workout gear, so you can feel fancy like Jerry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright giveaway time. So, friends what was your takeaway from Jerry? DM me your thoughts on this episode on the socials, BobbiRebell1@instagram, BobbiRebell on Twitter. And I'm going to be giving away the three signed copies of Jerry Ford's book, "Guns, Drugs or Wealth" to listeners. And, yes it is open to international fans. In fact our last giveaway winners, which were the Chris Hogan and the Rachel Cruze signed books, included one listener Barbara Olner in Austria. And don't forget that we are starting to do listener Q&A episodes with some of my money expert friends maybe making guest appearances. So DM me your questions as well or you can also email us at hello@financialgrownup.com, that's hello@financialgrownup.com. And that goes for the giveaways to. So, DMs or emailing hello@financialgrownup.com whatever is good for you is good for us.

Bobbi Rebell:
And thank you to Jerry Ford. Great motivation to get us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownups with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Entrepreneur and Investor Barbara Corcoran explains why she believes spending money in a deliberate way even before you earn it is a smart business strategy, and shares the story of her first really big investment. And yes, she committed to it before she had the money.

In Barbara’s money story you will learn:

-How she bought her first house at age 29 (which had 8 bedrooms!)

-The importance of discussing big purchases with a significant other

-How Barbara saved $7,500 in three months

In Barbara’s money lesson you will learn:

-How she motivates herself to save money

-Why she chooses to ignore rational and take risks

-Her advice on committing to a goal

In Barbara’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Why she spends money before she has it

-How she puts herself under pressure in order to produce financial results

In My Take you will learn:

-Why it's always good to listen to different opinions and take advice from successful people

-Two negotiation tips that will save you money and help your career

Bobbi and Barbara also talk about:

-Chef Boyardee and Ramen noodles, the quick dinner that helped save Barbara money and reminded Bobbi of her childhood

EPISODE LINKS:

Listen to Barbara Corcoran's podcast Business Unusual here, and on iTunes

Watch Barbara give more business advice on the multi-Emmy award winning show Shark Tank on ABC

Follow Barbara!

Twitter: @BarbaraCorcoran

Instagram: @BarbaraCorcoran

Facebook: @TheBarbaraCorcoran

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Barbara Corcoran:
I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I start spending it even before it arrives.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hello, my Financial Grownup friends, brace yourself Barbara Corcoran is here and she is going to give it to us straight up, no beating around the bush and she said some things that frankly I was pretty surprised with. They go against almost everything that I've been taught about building a solid financial foundation for your life, for your business, but she made it work. I'm still not sure I could make it work for me, but I'm thinking about it because she makes a good case and I'm interested to hear what you guys think after you hear her interview.

Bobbi Rebell:
So glad you are here. As I said, this episode is a really big one, so if you're new, you're joining it a really good time. We do something by the way called flex time for podcast, the episodes are kept pretty short, around 15 minutes. The idea is no excuses you can always fit it in, make it easy for you while you're running a quick errand, what have you, but if you have a longer commute, you can also stack them. We have a library now of more than a hundred episodes so you can listen to a few on your commute if that's what worked for you. Make sure that when you subscribe and hopefully you are subscribing, we really need the support that you set the downloads, go into the manual settings and set it so that you automatically get the downloads so that you don't miss any and you're good to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we love automation because that way things just happen and it's one less thing to remember. Alright, let's get to Barbara Corcoran and you know her from Shark Tank and now she has a new podcast called Business Unusual, also really short, so that's a good thing. She gives a lot of advice that seems shocking until you listen to it and listen to her reasons and then think that is part of how Barbara Corcoran is successful. It's the unusual. She approaches things in a different way from the way that we're always used to approaching it and it works for her. It may not work for you. The big takeaway from this episode, which you'll see I'm going to talk about after her interview. I don't know if I could do it, but I can see how it worked for her. So with that, here is Shark Tank's Barbara Corcoran.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Barbara Corcoran you're at Financial Grownup welcome to the podcast.

Barbara Corcoran:
Thank you. Pleasure to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of your new podcast. For many reasons, of course also because it's a short podcast, but you have the best wisdom and you share so many lessons from your life, so thank you for that.

Barbara Corcora:
My pleasure. I enjoy doing it, but it's a scary proposition as I'm sure you will know, you have to earn people's ears while you're talking to them.

Bobbi Rebell:
You do, well you've been earning it for many years and you're going to share a money story from early in your life, your very first real estate purchase or I should say your first house and it sounds like it's going to be a story, but there's something that happened that I think people want to hear. Go for it.

Barbara Corcoran:
Yeah, and it has a valuable lesson. When I committed to purchasing my first home with my first husband. I was about 29 years old. I didn't have a pot to pee in as they say, but we sat across the dinner table for a man who said he was selling a certain house that was like a magical house from what I heard, and my mouth said, I'll take it. And why it was magical. It was a house that anybody would think you could only dream about, which was a house with eight bedrooms two guest cottages, a wet and a dry boat house facing a brand new lake.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you have kids at this point, Barbara?

Barbara Corcoran:
No, of course not.

Bobbi Rebell:
Who was moving into this mansion?

Barbara Corcoran:
Listen, I figured I'd have fun with friends, but I had no rights saying we'll take it to which my husband was more startled than I was over my own mouth. Because we didn't have a dime to our name, we were struggling to just meet our bills. We're still kind of kids coming up the ranks, but-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so tell me what happened. How did you buy the house?

Barbara Corcoran:
Once I said we'd buy the house, we had the problem of coming up with the down payment, 7,500. And so my husband and I started eating tomato noodles every night that I think they're chef Boyardee or something in a can and bring them lunch every day and we saved every penny of what we were earning in our lives, short of the rent we had to pay for our studio apartment. Well, three months hence we had most of the down payment but not quite and we're out for dinner with the same big boss of his and he mentioned that his father, he wanted to close, which was putting ... Was scaring me to death because I still didn't have enough money.

Barbara Corcoran:
But he said his father was reluctant to leave the house and I volunteered. Well, why don't you let your father stay there, but in trade for that, I got four months extra time. So we were able to save the down payment of $7,500. No problem. But when we got to the closing, the closing costs too, which I didn't have, but he was so in dear to us for keeping his elderly dad in the house that he paid for the closing costs for us. And we moved into that beautiful house and we had it for seven years until I decided to leave my husband and he got the house.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why did that happen? How did you let that happen?

Barbara Corcoran:
You know why? Because I got the apartment in the city by then we had bought a one bedroom apartment in the city and I sold that one bedroom that I paid $80,000 for two years later for 250. And he sold that house that we had paid $75,000 for two years after our divorce for $75,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Barbara Corcoran:
I'm a believer in always committing throwing it out there and say I'm going to do it. Because when you have that kind of pressure and you've publicly committed, you find a way to get there. If you can commit to something, you'll find a way of getting there. If I had said, give me a couple of months, let me see if I could save for the house, believe me, my rational side would have kicked in and said, what are you doing? But because I said I would, I found a way that could do it and that's the truth, and most people are better than they think. If they're willing to be courageous enough to state it as low as fact and then make it happen versus the other way around.

Bobbi Rebell:
And eat a lot of canned noodles.

Barbara Corcoran:
Oh yeah,[inaudible 00:06:40] Yeah, you can do anything if you know it's temporary.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us your everyday money tip because this is also a real Barber tip because this is something that works for you may not work for other people, but it is a strategy that people might want to consider. Again, for you it works it may not be for everyone. Go for it.

Barbara Corcoran:
It's a particularly good strategy if you're out to those your own business, and I'll tell you why. My strategy is this. I always spend money I don't have. If I see money coming in new receivable, three months out, I committed that day, what I'm going to spend it on, and I started spending it even before it arrives. The reason for that is I have no choice but to actually make it happen whatever I'm doing. Because I know I've already committed the money. It's like putting a gun to your own head where you have to produce. If instead you wait for the money to come in and then say, okay, I've got this little extra cash. We've had a profit this month. Let's see the best use of it. That sounds rational, but I'm telling you the fever with which you attacked the best use of it is nothing compared to knowing that the bank is going to come in and chop your head off if you don't produce.

Barbara Corcoran:
So. I've always consistently put myself under pressure by spending money long before I have it and I've never let myself down. There's something magical that happens in the universe when you really under fire when you have no choice that you find a way to get there, and so I'm a big spender and on top of that I can also say, although I was born a poor kid and have my thousand dollar loan from my boyfriend, thank God, or we have been able to quit my waitress job and starting a business nowhere. Okay.

Barbara Corcoran:
But once I had that thousand dollars, I just thought, you know what? This is found money. It's a gift from God and I'm just gonna run this thing up the flag pole until somebody stops me and my most assured policy of making sure no one stopped me was to spend money in advance of having it because I had no choice but to make good on it. I had no choice and ran like a devil with a limited timeframe and I was able to accomplish 10 times more than all my competitors simply because of the pressure I had put on my own back. All right, so it's not what you read in accounting book, but I can tell you when you're building a business, it's a smarter way to go than to be calculated and do it a step at a time.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's the real world. One other quick question though, did you ever have trouble and how did you handle it collecting those receivables?

Barbara Corcoran:
No, I wrote off about 10% of my receivables because you have to appreciate. My business was selling co-ops in New York City and we had about 10% of our deals that didn't approve the Co-op association. They were turned down by the board, so I knew what that average was the first year, by the typical may be the second year in business, I realized I lost 10% of my deals, so I just wrote off that 10%. So that was realistic in suddenly a good accountant would do, but that's where my relationship or any resemblance to an accountant definitely ended in my attitude to it and everything else.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. I want to talk quickly about your, still relatively new podcast even though who would know it because it's always at the top of the charts where to I'm trying to climb, but you're there and that's a lot because your podcast is so good. It is a short one, so dear to my heart, but you also really deliver personal and as you have here very honest and straightforward advice about your life and the lessons that you have learned and your bold with it. Your most recent episode talked about quitting jobs. You quit 22 jobs Barbara, you also talk about negotiation skills. Tell me more about this podcast and why it is so different and people are really responding to it?

Barbara Corcoran:
I think people are responding well simply because I tell it like it is. And it doesn't mean if it's the person listening, but I think they leave trusting that they heard the truth and I also think I'm impatient by nature. So if you're gonna ask me what about negotiation? Most people can write a book on that. I can't. I can tell you in eight minutes flat, what the key to negotiation, what are the key moves and what doesn't work. And really I don't have more to say after the eight minutes. So I think because I have such a short attention span and because I'm so impatient by nature myself and listening, I want to know what you want out of me and what do I gotta do. And that's pretty much how I am with everybody. Get to the point and then tell me how you get there.

Barbara Corcoran:
So I do get to the point and then tell you how I get there and then the eight minutes are up and I'm signing off. I wish I was more verbose and had more great delicious detail, but I just say the main things that worked for me and I leave it at that and my sign off until the following week. So I hope it works. We'll see. It's very scary as I'm sure you know, to merit someone's eight minutes. I feel it's such an abuse or a trust that I feel like every word has to really, really count or I have no business doing its own. I'm Mostly scared, I'm scared to six days. Then I do the podcast, then I get scared all over again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you're doing a great job. I don't find you scary at all. I love it. I think you're worth investing every one of those eight minutes, so thank you for all that you do. Everyone knows where to find you, but just in case because I ask everyone, tell us where you can be found, where people can follow you on social and what else is important that's going on in your life that we should know about.

Barbara Corcoran:
Well, of course it's a Business Unusual, which is the podcast, my newest baby, but as usual, any social platform @BarbaraCorcoran is very easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you Barbara.

Barbara Corcoran:
I love you back. Bobbi. Thank you so much. And Go back to your real name, Barbara, it's such a pretty name.

Bobbi Rebell:
So if you're like me, you want to hit rewind and listen again. She's that good. And before I get to the financial bonus tips, just want to make a little comment about the food because we spend so much time agonizing over all of this organic fancy food and when we're saving money, everyone talks about the ramen noodles. I want to talk to you about the chef Boyardee that she and her husband were eating to save up money because you know what, that's fun childhood memories for me. My mom was a working mom and you know what? Sometimes we have something called spaghettios. Do you guys even know what that is? It's basically this like circle pasta in a can and tomato sauce and it's delicious. It may not have any nutrition, but if you see spaghettios in the store, I have no affiliation with them. Pick them up and try them instead of ramen noodles if you're trying to save money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just for variety, be a little bit bad. Like I said, they're probably not nutritious at all. All right, let's talk about my tips. Finance grownup tip number one. Sometimes financial advice like Barbra's goes against common stereotypical things that we hear. Here's the thing though, always listen to different opinions especially when they're from someone like Barbara Corcoran who has been so successful in so many different fields, to not only real estate where she started out, but also now with Shark Tank. She's an entrepreneur investing in so many different companies, so listen to her and give it some thought. Now I'm not telling you to go out and spend money that you don't have or even to spend on receivables, which is really what she was doing. It was money that she had contracts for but had not yet received so she believed that money was coming, but I see her point and I also see how that can create a really strong motivation so before totally rejecting it or even accepting it, play out how that would work for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
How are you going to cover things for example, if someone does not pay or if they pay, but they are on a delayed schedule so they're not paying in 30 days like your bill says they're paying 60, 90, 100, 20 days out. How are you going to finance that? You have a line of credit with your business. Are you throwing that on a credit card where you might be paying interest, late fees? What have you, factor that in. Are you going to charge a late fee to them? Barbara factored in that 10% of her expected commissions receivables were not going to happen so even she was doing that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, be creative and flexible. When you're negotiating. Barbara, let the sellers elderly dad stay in the house longer than originally planned. Again, you have to give Barbara props for being open minded and in return by the way, she got precious time and the goodwill was so strong and her gesture was still appreciated that the closing costs were paid by the seller.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is huge. Thank you all for being part of the Financial Grownup community. We bring this to you for free. The only payment we ask is that you share it with someone that you care about and that you believe would enjoy and benefit from the podcast. Your reviews and your feedback. I'm just going to tell you guys straight up there is really important. I read everyone, we don't get as many as I would like. There aren't that many there and I know a lot of you are out there. A lot of you are DMing me, which is actually really great. Still DM me, gave me the feedback, but if you can also leave reviews on Apple podcasts, that is also really helpful to get the show notice because that's how people discover the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you do want to also be in touch on social media, it's not either or guys. Follow me and DM me on Instagram @BobbiRebell1 that's the number one on twitter I'm @BobbyRebel and on Facebook, Bobbi Rebell as well. And big things of course to the amazing Barbara Corcoran, the ultimate Financial Grownup. Everyone check out her podcast Business Unusual and watch her on Shark Tank and thank you Barbara Corcoran for getting us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

In Frazer’s money story you will learn:

-How to calculate how much money to save before quitting a job 

-How to know whether you should to tell your employer about a side hustle

In Frazer’s money lesson you will learn:

-What are the factors that determine how much time and money goes into building a business

-Different ways to to save money before investing full-time in a personal company

In Frazer’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Examples of creative ways to teach kids about giving to their community

-Specific ways, including games, that encourage cooperation between kids on money decisions

In My Take you will learn:

-Why it's ok to keep secrets at work

-Ways to consistently give to charity

Bobbi and Frazer also talk about:

-How to find out what it actually costs to live your life.

EPISODE LINKS:

Buy Frazer's book Wealth Actually

Check out the Wealth Actually podcast here!

Visit Frazer Rice’s website.

Follow Frazer

Instagram: @Frazer.Rice

Twitter: @FrazerRice

Linked In @Frazer Rice

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Frazier:
I did not tell my employer because I didn't feel like they were going to be very supportive of me thinking about the name on the back of the jersey as opposed to the name on the front.

Bobbi:
You're listening to Financial Grown-up with me, certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be A Financial Grown-up. And you know what, being a grown-up is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown-up, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi:
Hey financial grown-up friends. Have you ever kept a secret from your boss? Like maybe you were about to quit? More on how our guest pulled that off in just a minute but first just a quick welcome to everyone. As our regulars know, we keep the podcast short, around 15 minutes, because you're busy but if you have a little more time of course, feel free to binge a little, flex time for podcasts, and I need to ask this, please. This podcast is free. We've done over a hundred episodes. The only payment that we ask is that you help us grow the show and the way you do that is by telling friends and encouraging them to listen and maybe even show them how to listen to a podcast. Don't assume that they even know. And of course bonus points if you can leave a review and a rating with Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen.

Bobbi:
Alright let's get to our guest now. Wealth Actually author, Frazer Rice is a wealth manager, who just wasn't that into wealth management but he kept his other ambitions a secret from his bosses while he worked on gearing up his new business. The big challenge? Figuring out how much he, meaning how much Frazier cost? And he's going to help us figure out how much we cost. We're going to do the math on ourselves as well. Here is Wealth Actually author Frazier Rice.

Bobbi:
Hey Frazier Rice, you are a financial grown-up. I'm so excited you're on the podcast.

Frazier:
Bobbi, thanks for having me on. This is a real treat.

Bobbi:
Congratulations on your book Wealth Actually. Now this is the subtitle: Intelligent Decision Making for the 1%. And before anyone gets the rolling eyes or anything, this is an important book. Because we talk a lot on this show about making money and paying off debt and all those things to get there. But once you're there, you wanna stay and you wanna grow. That's why I was so excited to get you on. So welcome and congratulations.

Frazier:
Well thank you and it's one of those things where the subtitle with the 1% part I wrote about what I knew. It was my day job to help people.

Bobbi:
Because you're a wealth advisor.

Frazier:
That's right. Make financial transitions and I think a lot of the lessons that are applicable to them, apply to other people as well.

Bobbi:
Absolutely and it's also really important from a family perspective because, and we'll talk more about the book after your money story, but a lot of wealth disappears after three generations. And if you're out there working your heart out to build a financially stable future for your family and your kids, the last thing you want is for it not to last.

Frazier:
And not only that, one of the things people really worry about and are concerned about is leaving a legacy. And what I tried to do with the book is take a look at a lot of a different issues that can attack that and that can frustrate people and the legacy they want to leave. Not only that but sort of helping them raise kids in a way they think will be productive going forward.

Bobbi:
Exactly. So let's talk about you first. Because you brought with you a money story that is happening right now.

Frazier:
It sure is.

Bobbi:
This book and by the way your podcast, which is being rebranded as Wealth Actually, is part of it and so much more. But it hasn't been, we joked just before we started recording that overnight successes, you know, take years to build. That's kind of what's happening to you. You've put a lot into this. Tell us your money story.

Frazier:
No question about it. So I was wealth manager for Wilmington Trust for almost 16 years and so what I did was take care of clients, and go out and find new ones. I came to the conclusion probably about two years ago, where I said, you know I want to be doing something different, I wanted to build more equity in my own brand, and I wanted to have something that was mine in a sense, I'm age 45 now, I wanted to look back when I'm 55, 65, etc. and say this is something I built and that I own.

Frazier:
One of the areas I'm particularly interested in is certainly in the media side of things. I had a radio show in high school and a TV show in college and I do a lot of different writing on the side, screen plays and I have a graphic novel coming out hopefully at the end of the year.

Bobbi:
You're busy, Frazier.

Frazier:
Yeah, no rocks gather moss with me I guess. But anyway I came to the conclusion at one point, I said, you know what, I think I've got something here. I started writing a book about my wealth management experiences and the way I think about it. And I started that in the beginning of 2017 and it was ready to go at the end of 2017. And my money story I guess, is I was looking forward. I said, you know what, I need to build some padding, or some bandwidth around my financial situation so I can really give this a go. I did not tell my employer because I didn't feel like they were going to be very supportive of me thinking about the name on the back of jersey as opposed to the name on the front. And also the idea of conveying media and marketing that I don't think trust companies or banks understand very well.

Frazier:
With that in mind, I said okay, I'm probably going to have to leave and walk out the door and be on my own fairly abruptly. I basically took a year of income as my goal and just said I'm going to be spending money on doing lots of other things to try to get the book ramped up, to try to get the podcast ramped up and a variety of other projects. So take a year of income, take a quarter off of that and that's nine months of expenses and that's probably a pretty good way of going about it.

Bobbi:
And where was the money going to go specifically to do those things? What's involved in launching something like this?

Frazier:
Sure. So from a book perspective, I basically set aside 40,000 dollars to get the book written and for marketing costs. From a podcast perspective I would say it's probably about 12,000 dollars a year in terms of getting the thing produced and also marketing it accordingly.

Bobbi:
How are you marketing it? What marketing costs specifically?

Frazier:
Well the marketing costs essentially are me both from a public relations standpoint, getting it out and having articles written and so on but also me going to conferences and getting the word out that way. I haven't really delved too deeply into direct marketing as it relates to you know maybe Facebook ads or something like that [crosstalk 00:06:30].

Bobbi:
What conferences do you attend?

Frazier:
Well the latest one that's interesting is ThinCon, but also Trust in the States conferences, financial services conferences, investing conferences, that type of thing, which I think lends well to the book, which targets not only the wealthy people or you know people who aspire to be wealthy or have various issues that they'd like to deal with but also the advisors around them. So when I wrote the book I kind of had in mind the idea of targeting not only the people who had money but also the people who advise around it, on the theory that if they liked it, maybe they have 12 people that they'd like to buy it and give it to.

Bobbi:
That's so smart because the idea of educating yourself about money is really becoming much more mainstream and a lot of attention goes to young people paying off student debt, as it should, but more attention I think as millennials grow up and get older is going to and as the other generations obviously also get older, is going to go the management of wealth because you do get past a point we hope where you're focused more on offense rather than just digging out of the hole. And that's a great thing because people need this kind of book.

Frazier:
No question about it. And one of the things I heard from a different advisor which I didn't really speak to in the book too closely but that I really believe in is the idea of funding your retirement as much as possible ahead of time. Because it's something you will do. You will be out of the work force at some point later in your life and you need to fund those years from age 65 or 70 on and if you don't do it early and use the power of compounding in your favor, you're not going to have as nice a retirement as you would have liked.

Bobbi:
So what is your takeaway for the listeners from your money story? From building this business?

Frazier:
I think the big takeaway is pre fund as many expenses as possible and be prepared for the idea that it takes time to build a business. It takes time to build a brand. You're going to have setbacks and to the extent that you can save up and have that at hand, I sleep better at night knowing that I'm not quite sure you know, if I don't know necessarily what my career's going to turn as out as a result of these moves, at the very least I'm not dipping into savings to fund current daily expenses.

Bobbi:
Let's talk about your every day money tip. You have a lot of exercises that people can do and this is one that I think is really valuable because as people start to become more successful financially they do want to be able to give to philanthropy.

Frazier:
If you had three kids and four dollars to give away, I would suggest that each of the kids be able to give a dollar away in the manner in which they choose. This is interesting for a couple of reasons. The first one, is you know it sort of gives them the idea that you know there's a good reason to be giving money away and it helps to further social causes. But from a parent's perspective I think one thing that's nice is that you get to see what is important to kids. And it's a nice data point that you can look at as you're raising your kids and you can see how they think about things.

Frazier:
The second part of that, I said you had four dollars and you know three of it is given away. That fourth dollar I think an interesting exercise is to have the three kids decide amongst themselves how to give away that fourth dollar. And I think that's interesting and a good exercise for one major reason, is that it gets them to be making decisions together. One of the things that I preach in the book is there are a lot of different threats to wealth, one of which is that family members very often their first experience dealing with wealth is when one of, either the mother or the father dies and they're making decisions about big money late in the game and a lot of emotion can come into play.

Frazier:
By using this shared philanthropy experience you get kids making decisions about money and learning about what's important to each other, ultimately going forward. And it's a very small thing, it can be done with very small dollars and it can be done by anybody, not just the 1%. But I think it's a nice little communication tool that transfers values but also builds communication skills and also allows kids to understand what they're strengths and weaknesses are before they have to settle on the state.

Bobbi:
Great idea. I think that's something everyone can implement at any level. I want to talk quickly about your book as well. It really hit a lot of marks with me because it does hone in on so many themes that are universal, no matter what your income. The chapter that stood out most to me is where you talk about what do you cost? And I think that's important at any income level, any wealth level, because we often cost more than we realize.

Frazier:
Oh no question about it. Basically you know when I was talking about writing the book with my publisher, one of the things I talked about was there are people who come from one strata of wealth or one differens type of wealth, meaning maybe they had a business or real estate. And then they're going to another one, they're selling something or they have liquidity or more cash than they were used to having. Or they're coming from a high paying job and then they're going into retirement and hopefully they're funding their income needs via assets. The biggest thing I preach to people is if you've won the lottery or you've become a first round draft pick or you've sold a business or something like that, understand not only what you cost currently and how that was funded but also what you're going to cost. And I've tried to do it in a fun way in the book.

Bobbi:
Oh you go there. You talk about plastic surgery, you talk about private jets. It's a little bit out of most people's leagues, the kinds of things you talk about but it kinda shows how you can have that lifestyle creep so easily the minute you start to feel a little more comfortable in your wealth.

Frazier:
Not only that, people very often just don't have a sense of the numbers around different things and I try to just crack the whip as much as I can to say look this is what things cost and there is a big different between flying coach and flying first class and then going net jets and then owning your own jet. Those costs are geometric and if it's your assets that have to generate the income to support it, you may have fun for a couple of years or you could have a real problem going forward. And if the market tanks or something bad happens to your business or there's litigations or something like that, one of the threats to wealth comes to fore, you could really set yourself up for a life style pull back.

Bobbi:
Tell us more about where people can find out more about you, your book, your podcast and all the things.

Frazier:
Sure. So the book is called Wealth Actually. You can find it at wealthactually.com. It's on Amazon, so you're able to find it that way. The podcast is on wealthactually.com as well. And then more about me is on my website, frazierrice.com. I'm on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, all the major social media platforms, so between that and Google, I'm pretty easily findable.

Bobbi:
Thank you Frazier.

Frazier:
Oh yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me on.

Bobbi:
Hey everyone, so excited to watch Frazier soar in his new ventures. Here's my take on what he had to say. Financial grown-up tip number one: he had a big secret at work and you know what? It's okay to keep secrets at work. As excited as you are about whatever side hustles or new ventures you've got going on, if the bosses think you have one foot out the door, you may not get considered for certain projects or even a promotion and of course forget about a raise. Why should they invest in you when they think you're going to leave? Don't do anything related to it on your employer's time obviously and don't do anything unethical. But it is definitely okay to be discreet and by the way that promotion that you could be considered for, because they see how committed you are to your job, when you are there, that actually maybe good enough to keep you at your job and maybe you don't start your own business or maybe you have other opportunities that you might not have seen at the company.

Bobbi:
Financial grown up tip number two: Frazier talked about strategically giving to charity. Here's a little more. When you're giving to charity think about your ability to sustain the level of giving for the long run. So for example, you may have had a great year and you want to boost your gift to a new level at a cause you really care about. And you know they could use the money. But then next year the expectation is going to be that you are going to maintain that level or you're going to raise it. Something you may or may not be able to do or want to do. So here's the strategy. You keep your regular annual donations relatively steady or climbing slowly and then if you have that really good year, and you can and want to give more that year, strategically give it in a way that is clearly for a one time specific project, like a capital campaign.

Bobbi:
Alright, thank you all for your support including supporting the show by leaving reviews. I said it before but I'm repeating it cause it's so important, we really do need them my friend. Also, be in touch on the socials. I love hearing from you guys. On Instagram I am @bobbirebell1 and on Twitter @bobbirebell and thanks to Wealth Actually author Frazier Rice for bringing us all one step closer to being financial grown-ups.

Bobbi:
Financial Grown-Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

This episode with Her Money podcast host and Today Show financial editor Jean Chatzky is about getting the most value for your work. 

In Jean’s money story you will learn

-the impact her divorce had on her financial strategy

-how the loss of her dad changed her perspective on money

-the loss of her job and the career change that followed

-how to assess your financial needs, especially your savings goals

-how focusing on her money created emotional and psychological security

-her  post-divorce college savings plan pivot

 

In Jean’s lesson you will learn:

-how to evaluate your financial needs at different life stages

-which professional advisors she has used at key points in her life

-how to know what to charge clients for your professional services or products

-why and how she shares information about pricing

 

In her money tip you will learn:

-the power of automatic savings

-mental accounting and why it works for her

-using different pools of money for different goals

-guilt free spending

 

In my take you will learn:

-my advice on knowing your worth in the market

-why socializing and making friends in person and online is key to growing your business

-Why you must choose clients that value your work

-How to deal with clients that lowball you on price

-How to grow low paying clients into higher paying ones

Links related to this episode

The Today Show

Jean Chatzky

Her Money with Jean Chatzky

Stacy Tisdale

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Transcription

Jean Chatzky:
We were talking about how much we charge for speeches and creating content for various people and various companies. In the last year, I've become much more conscious of sharing these kinds of numbers with people in my circle, because this is the way we are all going to get paid more.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was NBC today show financial editor Jean Chatzky, host of the Her Money podcast, and author of countless bestselling books, most recently Age Proof. The clip is part of the lesson that she will share with us, in just a few minutes, about getting paid more. But first, we are going to start with her money story, which has to do with a rocky time in Jean's life, and how she found financial security. Here is Jean Chatzky.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jean Chatzky, financial grownup, welcome to the program.

Jean Chatzky:
Thank you Bobbi, so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, and happy 2018, and happy almost 100 episodes of Her Money. Congratulations.

Jean Chatzky:
Thank you, and congratulations on the launch of this podcast, I think it's so much fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, it's been quite a year. I remember I think my second time ever as a guest was on Her Money, so it holds a very special place in my heart, and it's really just wonderful content that you're bringing to people, so thank you for that.

Jean Chatzky:
Sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
And everyone of course should check out Her Money.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you have brought with you a really important and compelling money story. Do tell.

Jean Chatzky:
I feel like I was thrust into the real world of financial grownups when I got divorced.

Bobbi Rebell:
And how old were you?

Jean Chatzky:
I was about 40. I mean that's when it hit, and it hit at a time when a lot of things hit. I lost my dad, who had been sick for a while. I got fired from Money Magazine, I mean they didn't actually say fired, but that's what happens when you get laid off. I had to take a whole new look at my life, knowing that I was going to be doing it on my own, knowing that I was going to be a freelancer rather than an employee, starting a business, maybe hiring my own employees.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which you have now.

Jean Chatzky:
Which I have now. And all of it caused me to really take a hard look at the inflows and outflows of money, at what I really needed. And most importantly, at what I needed to meet my savings goals, because when I got divorced, I started saving money like crazy, because nothing else made me feel as safe, and I was not feeling particularly safe in the world at that point.

Jean Chatzky:
And so it took the form of doing everything from buying a smaller house than I could really afford, and just shoving more money every single month into savings, to starting new college accounts for my kids, because the plan that my ex-husband and I had about how we were going to pay off the mortgage and then use that money to pay for college had gone out the window, to really taking a closer look at all of the bills every single month, and seeing what was not necessary.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you weren't doing that before?

Jean Chatzky:
I was doing it, but I wasn't doing it in such a diligent and type A way. I was saving up to the guidelines that I give people, but I just wanted to do more. That's what made me feel safe, was not shoes in the closet, it was just money in the bank.

Jean Chatzky:
So my lesson is a little bit different from that story, but no matter what stage you're at in life, we all need help. And I think asking for help, which I did during that period in my life, from financial advisors, from lawyers, from estate planners, from friends who had been through it before me. We've got to ask for help to figure out how to chart the right course at the right time.

Jean Chatzky:
And I thought about this lesson because I had lunch yesterday with Stacey Tisdale, who is another financial expert/journalist/colleague, who you should absolutely have on this show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely.

Jean Chatzky:
And we were talking about how much we charge for speeches and creating content for various people and various companies. In the last year, I've become much more conscious of sharing these kinds of numbers with people in my circle, because this is the way we are all going to get paid more. And doing this feels to me like we are really helping each other.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give me a money tip, something that you are using yourself, with your family, that is really making a difference, that people can implement right now.

Jean Chatzky:
Going back to what I told you about saving like a crazy person around the time of my divorce, I save automatically for every goal, even the small ones.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you separate different accounts you mean?

Jean Chatzky:
I separate. I am a huge believer in mental accounting for which Richard Thaler just won a Nobel prize. I find when you have different pools of money for different things, it's easier to reach your goals. I've got a big trip coming up, I've got that money isolated. I'm saving ahead of time, and it means I will not be looking at big credit card bills that I don't have money to pay off, after that trip happens.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it also takes away the guilt of feeling like maybe I shouldn't treat myself to this trip, because the money is there for that.

Jean Chatzky:
Absolutely. And it doesn't matter if it's a trip, or a handbag, or a spa weekend, or college. Just knowing this is the job that this money has been set aside to do is really, really helpful.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great advice, thank you Jean Chatzky.

Jean Chatzky:
Sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that advice about pricing. Information is power when it comes to pricing your services, especially as we seem to move more and more into the gig economy, not to mention side hustles.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm going to just expand on Jean's great advice about knowing what you're worth in the market and getting it. Financial grownup tip number one, get social. Think of others in your field not as the competition, but as your teammates, your allies. Spend time with your people. This can be in person, like Jean does, or even online. There are countless groups these days, especially for example on Facebook, where you can ask people specifically what do they charge?

Bobbi Rebell:
They may not say it publicly in the App itself, but a lot of people are willing to DM you with some actual numbers and helpful tips about what you can and should be charging.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, do not work with clients that don't value your work, aka don't pay you enough. Good clients want you to stay in business, that can't happen if you are in a race to the bottom with price. If someone does not want to pay the right price to work with you, odds are this is not the last argument you're going to have with them. If they truly have a budget that is still too small, see if you can limit the scope of what you're doing. If you believe they're going to grow into a client that can eventually afford you, make a judgment call. But make it clear that you are working below rate, and that the numbers are unsustainable and need to grow when their business grows.

Bobbi Rebell:
If it really can't work, consider referring them out to someone who does work with people with smaller budgets. They will appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for listening to this episode of Financial Grownup. We are loving all the amazing feedback. Please subscribe, share, rate, review. It matters, and is truly appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is a BRK media production.

Retire Inspired’s Chris Hogan had a taste for expensive food at the grocery store- and it was was thinning out his bank account. But when he saw the true cost of his weekly habit he quickly hit the brakes and kept the change. 

 

In Chris’ money story you will learn

-How Chris Hogan had money wake up call

-Why his spending was spiraling out of control

-How he curbed his grocery spending bill from $1500 a month to close to nothing

-How routine and habit was hurting his wallet

-The specific strategy Chris and his wife used to get back on track with their spending

-The crazy meals the Hogans had while cleaning out their food stash!

In Chris’ lesson you will learn

-Chris’s strategy to avoid mixing up wants and needs

-The importance of being intentional with how you spend your money

-How to curb spending even when you think you can afford it

-Chris’ saying: interest you pay is a penalty but interest you earn is a reward

-How to get debt out of your life

In Chris’ money tip you will learn

-Why he believes cash is the best tool to control spending

-How electronic payments can confuse you and cause you to spend more than you intend

In my take you will learn:

-While eating out can be a budget killer, eating at home can be expensive as well

-Be deliberate at the grocery store- have a list and don’t buy those impulse items!

-Don’t shop hungry

-Use apps like Grocery IQ and Grocery pal to help stay on track in the store and to plan better

-Avoid routine spends. But on purpose, and with purpose!

EPISODE LINKS

Chris Hogan’s website https://www.chrishogan360.com/

Chris Hogan’s book Retire Inspired

Chris Hogan’s podcast Retire inspired https://www.chrishogan360.com/podcast/

Chris Hogan’s Retirement calculator https://www.chrishogan360.com/riq/

Follow Chris!

Instagram @ChrisHogan360

Twitter @ChrisHogan360

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/chrishogan360/

 

Grocery apps to check out:

Grocery IQ

Grocery Pal

 

Here are some stories about Grocery apps:

8 apps that will save you real Money on Food- from Money

http://time.com/money/5095326/8-apps-that-will-save-you-real-money-on-food/

10 Best apps to save money on groceries 2018 from Frugal for Less

https://www.frugalforless.com/apps-to-save-money-on-groceries/

Best Grocery List apps article from best products;

https://www.bestproducts.com/eats/food/g1505/grocery-shopping-list-apps/

6 best grocery shopping list apps for iphone and ipad 2018 from appsdose

http://www.appsdose.com/2015/04/6-best-grocery-shopping-list-apps-for-iphone-ipad.html

7 Grocery List apps for iPhone and Android for best shopping experience

https://mashtips.com/best-grocery-list-app-iphone-android/

Retire Inspired’s Chris Hogan had a taste for expensive food at the grocery store- and it was was thinning out his bank account. But when he saw the true cost of his weekly habit he quickly hit the brakes and kept the change. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you’ll learn the most important thing to remember when budgeting. #Budget #MoneyTips #Author

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Transcription

Chris Hogan:
You would have thought I was getting ready for Y2K. I had food in the cupboards, the freezers. I had food everywhere, but yet I was still every Saturday morning going to the grocery store.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. We talk a lot these days in our society about being mindful. I'm working hard about bringing that into my life in a consistent and intentional way, but we also need to talk about mindlessness especially when it comes to our every day spending. I love the story that Retire Inspired author and podcast Chris Hogan is about to share with us because of its brilliant simplicity. We need to hear this stuff and know that even the people we look up to when it comes to money have not always been the role models for money mindfulness. He became aware, and once he saw the numbers, change came. Chris Hogan, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Chris Hogan:
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's an honor to have you. I am such a fan of all that you do for people from Retire Inspired, the book, to your podcast, to all of your good teachings and advice. It is truly a privilege, and we thank you.

Chris Hogan:
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You have brought with you a money story about spending and the grocery store, which is something that people don't always realize what's going on there. Do tell.

Chris Hogan:
Bobbi, I had an issue. I wasn't being a grownup at this time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh no.

Chris Hogan:
This is back before I had kids. I'm now the proud father of three boys, but no kids, double income household. We were just getting started getting serious about where we were financially and what we were doing. I sat down and was looking at bank statements. I wanted to add up, I wanted to know where was my money going? Where was our money heading? I started adding up the different categories, the eating out, but the grocery bill. This was one that was jumping out at me. I thought, this can't be correct. I went another month back, and yeah, $1,200 a month on groceries, a family of two.

Bobbi Rebell:
What were you buying?

Chris Hogan:
Anything and everything, meats, cheeses, anything and everything at any time. Again, we had the money. We weren't hurting anybody. I went back a third month and added it up. It was like $1,500. I was like, "Okay, let's go back to the $1,200," and it was just too much. Then I started realizing something. I was making the grocery store rich, instead of me building my own wealth. That became my financial wake up call, so to speak. Literally, looking at this, we got intentional. We got on a budget, and we set up a dollar amount that we were going to spend on groceries. That was the taking control. I'll never forget, we looked at all the food that I stockpiled. You would have thought I was getting ready for Y2K. I had food in the cupboards, the freezers. I had food everywhere, but yet I was still every Saturday morning going to the grocery store. I realized something. I was shopping out of habit, not out of necessity.

Bobbi Rebell:
It sounds like it was part of your routine. That was your weekend routine.

Chris Hogan:
That's exactly right. It was the routine. Regardless if we needed anything or not, I was going and buying things because I could. Stepping back and really looking at that, we put some parameters in place. We set up a dollar amount that we were going to spend on groceries, but before we did that we ate the food that we had. I'll never forget, that was a grownup moment for us, really starting to take a stand because the $1,200 to $1,500 that was normally being spent in that month, we didn't spend it that month. We actually sent it toward our debt.

Bobbi Rebell:
The entire amount?

Chris Hogan:
The entire amount. We had $100 for groceries. We built the milk, and eggs, and things like that. The other stuff, we ate the things that we had. Now I'm not going to lie to you, Bobbi, we had some interesting meals. It was interesting. Ramen noodles with corn. We did some stuff, but we made a stand at that point financially that we were going to be in charge, and our habits weren't going to take charge of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to ask you something. Earlier you said you could afford it, but then you said you were putting that money towards debt. You could afford it in terms of cash flow, but yet maybe you should not have been spending that, clearly, because you could have put it towards debt, so your perception of afford has changed.

Chris Hogan:
Absolutely, it did, because my math changed. Looking at debt, it was one of those things that at that time we rationalized it, because why? Everybody had credit card debt, everybody had a car payment. As you start to look at it, and you start to run the numbers, you understand interest that you pay is a penalty. Interest that you earn is a reward. When you start to learn real math, as I call it, you start to see debt for what it is. It's a threat, and it's a thief. You want to get it out of your life.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson from this for our listeners?

Chris Hogan:
I'd say, "Be intentional." It's the lesson of wants versus needs, and we can get confused. We can want something so bad that we feel like we need it, but I want us to be clear. Set spending limits for yourself. Understand what you normally spend, but let's put some dollar amounts on there of hey, here's what we're going to spend on groceries. This is what we're going to spend eating out. Now you start to construct that budget. It puts you in control, and then you don't have to feel regret.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's move on to your money tip because this is one, I know what you're going to say. It's so brilliantly simple.

Chris Hogan:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your money tip for everyone that they can use right away?

Chris Hogan:
Right away, my money tip is this. Use cash. I know it sounds crazy, but I'm telling you, when you have cash, and you go into the grocery store with that dollar amount, it helps you stay aware, and it helps you stay in control. Now when they say the total amount is $85, and you count out $85 you are feeling the spending of the money as you're counting out those bills as opposed to with a debit card, the swipe, we don't feel the pain there. It's just this swipe. Now there's a chip, and all these things going on. It doesn't become spending until you balance your checking account. Use cash in those areas that you struggle in, whether it's eating out. Get an envelope, write eating out on it. Put a dollar amount in there each and every pay period. When the money is gone, you're done. It's this great reminder, and it keeps us aware of where we stand financially.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, Chris. Thank you so much. I want to hear more quickly about what is going on with you, and what you are working on at Dave Ramsey Solutions and at Retire Inspired. Do tell.

Chris Hogan:
Yes. We launched Retire Inspired in 2016. I'm working on my second book that we're going to have ready and available for the public in 2019, but I'm traveling all over the country doing smart money events where we walk people through the baby steps. I'm also doing corporate events where I'm talking about money and leadership. They can go check me out at ChrisHogan360.com, look at the events page, and they can find out where I'm at and where I'm going to be.

Bobbi Rebell:
One my favorite things about what you do in your books, and I hope you have this in your next book, is that you really as you travel you get so many unique stories that are relatable, or sometimes hopefully they won't be relatable because some of them can be pretty scary, but I look forward to hearing more of those stories. In terms of social media, always Chris Hogan 360?

Chris Hogan:
Always, everything, on Facebook as well as Twitter, Instagram. @chrishogan360 is where I'm at.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, there was a lot there that I could relate to and have definitely been guilty of. This is a case where I am right in it with you guys. Financial Grownup Tip Number 1: We think of eating out in restaurants as a big expense that has to be watched, and it does, but you can also buy quite expensive items at the grocery store, and have some very pricey home cooked meals, or even worse as in the case of the Hogan household, some expensive food just sitting in the pantry and the freezer. You have to watch that bill. It seems so simple, but make a list when you go shopping and stick to it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You've heard this before, but I'm going to remind you. Don't shop hungry. It happens, I do it. I always buy more than I should and fall for the impulse items. I'm working on it, and you should too. There are a ton of apps that can help you to be more organized and save money when you shop for groceries. I'm going to put links to a few articles with suggestions in the show notes, but a couple to check out just here, Grocery IQ and Grocery Pal. You make your list, and the app will sort out and show you discounts including those for other brands of the same item. While it may seem like it's okay if you can afford it to spend that extra money at the grocery store, it's not always as okay as it seems. For example, in the Hogan's case, they realized that they could be using that money to pay down debt. They thought that they could afford it, but maybe not so much. If you don't have debt, wouldn't it be more fun to do something else with the money, or more smarter, to invest the money? Savings is a good thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number 2: Ditch the bad money habits that are just there because they're routine. Chris Hogan was shopping at the grocery every Saturday because it was Saturday. He did not need the food. In fact, he probably didn't have room for it at a certain point. This comes back to things like lattes. If you want one because you want one, and you can afford it, that's fine, but if you're just buying one every morning because that's your routine, think about it. Maybe you want to do something else some days.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to thank all of you for your ratings and reviews on iTunes. It is making a huge difference in helping others discover our new podcast. I also want to thank Forbes for naming Financial Grownup one of the five podcasts that is getting it right. It was amazing to be getting that kind of recognition less than two months after we started this project. Keep spreading the word, friends, and keep in touch. I am on Twitter, @bobbirebell and on Instagram at bobbirebell1, on Facebook. Check me out under Bobbi Rebell and learn more about the show at, you're getting the theme here, bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Chris Hogan is pretty much as grown up as it gets. I loved his episode, and I hope you did too, and that it got us all one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Dad Dave Ramsey taught Rachel Cruze the basics of money and staying out of debt, but that did not keep her from wanting to splurge before she had the cash to afford it.

In Rachel’s story you will learn

-The dinner party conversation that had her questioning her values

-What it was like growing up in the Dave Ramsey household

-The way she and her siblings earned money as kids

-The quote that helped her find the right decision to her money dilemma

In Rachel’s money lesson you will learn:

-Rachel’s advice on how to decide on whether to splurge on expensive luxury goods

-Rachel’s perspective on how to manage social media created wants

-How to live your age-appropriate life, no matter what your friends are doing

In Rachel’s money tip you will learn:

-The importance of being intentional with  your money

-Her monthly technique to create a budget

-Planning for taxes

-How limits and boundaries can help you take control of your finances

-Her recommendation to use Everydollar free app for budgeting

In My Take you will learn:

-How to live your age-appropriate financial life

-How to afford luxury items on a budget

-How to keep instagram-envy in perspective

Episode links

Rachel’s website: https://www.rachelcruze.com

Everydollar budgeting app

The Rachel Cruze Show

Rachel’s book: Love Your Life, Not Theirs

Rachel’s book: Smart Money Smart Kids

Bag Borrow or Steal

Use this link for RenttheRunway and you will get $30 off your first order (and I get $30 too!) 

ArmGem.com

Bagtropolis.com

MonLuxe.com

Bagdujour.com

Bagromance.com

Follow Rachel!

Instagram @rachelcruze

Twitter @rachelcruze

Facebook: Rachel Cruze

YouTube channel

Some fun stories on renting handbags:

I own nothing

7 places  where you can rent designer handbags

High Fashion Designer  Dress & Handbag Rentals- Worth the Money?

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Transcription

Rachel Cruze:
We went out to dinner with Mom and Dad and my mom was like, "Oh Rachel, I got this great new purse! You would love it." And so she held it up and I remember thinking, "Oh it's so beautiful. I want one!"

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So, did our guest go get that purse that she really wanted? I'll give you a hint, her parents are Dave and Sharon Ramsey. Yeah, that Dave Ramsey. But then again, her mom had one. That got you thinking right? Well, Rachel Cruze did grow up in the Ramsey household. At the time of her birth, her family was actually in financial peril, so the values and belief system that she has now came from years of hard work that she grew up watching.

Bobbi Rebell:
So anyway, even if you already follow Rachel Cruze and you're a fan, maybe you've read her book, Love Your Life, Not Theirs, this is a story that you probably have not heard before, and I'm going to bet you're going to want to discuss with your friends afterwards and really think about what would you do? Here is Rachel Cruze.

Bobbi Rebell:
Rachel Cruze! You are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Rachel Cruze:
Hey Bobbi, thank you! Thanks for having me on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all the amazing things happening in your life, not the least of which is your seven-month-old daughter.

Rachel Cruze:
Yes, I know. We now have two little girls in the house, which is just nuts. But yeah, so she's seven months now, Caroline. I mean, if you're a parent you know how fast time flies and it's such a cliché, but it's so true.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, it's so true. But at least now with all of our digital media, one major plus is we document it so much.

Rachel Cruze:
That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:
So we can see what goes on.

Rachel Cruze:
Thousands of pictures, for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm really excited to deep dive right into your money story, because it also has to do with parenting and sort of looking up at your parents and seeing all of their accomplishments, but then maybe translating appropriately to your life. You went out to dinner with your parents maybe a few years into your marriage? Tell us the story.

Rachel Cruze:
Yes. Okay, so you have to understand that I grew up in Dave Ramsey's household, okay? So debt was like a four-letter word. If you don't have the money, you don't buy it. And we worked hard as kids, we were never given money. So we were never on allowance, we were always on commission. So you work, you get paid, you don't work-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, you were on commission?

Rachel Cruze:
Commission, yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is something you would get commission for?

Rachel Cruze:
Oh gosh. Cleaning your room, feed the dog, running the vacuum, helping put laundry away, like chores around the house is what we'd get paid on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, so that's the world I grew up in. So you kind of have to understand that for this story. So, fast forward many years, I was out to dinner with my parents. My husband and I had been married at that point, probably about two years, so this was around 2011. We were working hard, we were a few years into both of our new careers and getting paid like the bottom. I mean, we were maybe making like 35,000 a year. I don't know what it was, but it was like-

Bobbi Rebell:
But age-appropriate.

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, totally! I mean, we're early 20's, that's the reality. You're in an entry-level job and that's what you're doing. And so we went out to dinner with Mom and Dad, and my mom was like, "Oh Rachel, I got this great new purse! You would love it." And so she held it up and I remember thinking, "Oh, it's so beautiful. I want one."

Bobbi Rebell:
Describe it, what was it?

Rachel Cruze:
It was black and it was the type of bag that ... I won't throw the brand name out there, but it was like the square, where it was stiff. Does that make sense? Like it held its form when you set it down.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. It was super fancy.

Rachel Cruze:
So nice and just beautiful, yeah. And I thought, "Oh, I need a new purse. I've been working hard for two years, right? I deserve a nice purse!" So we went home that night, and I went and looked it up online because I told myself, "I think I could buy this," and I saw the price tag, and I almost passed out. So like, "What? Oh my goodness. No, I don't have the money to pay for that." And I had kind of this pity party for about five minutes there, on my laptop, of thinking, "But we work so hard." And then I had to stop, and I shook myself, and I was like, "Rachel, no. Your parents are 30 years ahead of you. You're in your early 20's." And it just reminded me of the quote from Larry Burkett where he said that we spend the first five to seven years of our marriages trying to obtain the same standard of living as our parents.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes!

Rachel Cruze:
But it took our parents 30 years to get there. Yeah, so it was just that reminder of, you know what, when you're young, no matter where you are in life, I'll say that, but when you're being wise with money, sometimes it's going to cause you to say no to things. And it's like, "Okay, no. I can't afford that right now," but I'm saying no in the present so that I can say yes in the future. That I can make a wiser purchase later when we actually have the money and it's not a huge percentage of our net worth, which it would have probably been at that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, so it was just one of those moments of thinking, "Okay, I'm going to have to say no to myself and it's not fun." But fast forward now Bobbi, six, seven years, now I'm like, "Okay, I could probably get a similar type of handbag now and that's okay, you know? Because we actually will have the money now to buy it."

Bobbi Rebell:
Although you'll probably spend it on baby stuff anyway, but ...

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah, it's probably going to end up going to like a big girl bed, which is what our two year old needs right now, so.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's good.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for our listeners here?

Rachel Cruze:
Just to remember that wherever you are in life, you have to be confident and content in it. It's hard in our 20's, when we want things. It's hard in our 30's, when you're itching to think, "Is this all life is?" I mean, every decade's going to have its own set of problems and issues, but you have to be content no matter where you are in life, or you're going to spend yourself into a hole and constantly live with debt, and with things that you can't afford and things that you really don't need.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, your friends probably can't afford them either.

Rachel Cruze:
Exactly. But on Instagram it looks like they can.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Before I let you go, I want to get an every day money tip, something you, your family, do on an every day, or monthly, yearly, whatever. Something real and tangible that everyone can put to work right now.

Rachel Cruze:
The number one mistake people make with their money is that they're not intentional. So my money tip would be, do a budget every single month, no excuses, do a budget. Because what you're doing is you're telling your money where it's going to go before the month even begins, and so start at the beginning of every month and create your budget and stick to it. Which means that there's limits and boundaries, yes, but it's going to help you take control of your money and actually get you to where you want to go. I mean, so many of us ... Especially now in life, I'm like, we're doing our taxes and thankfully I don't have to look back and think, "Oh my gosh, where did all my money go?" No, because we were very, very deliberate and intentional.

Rachel Cruze:
And it takes some mistakes and it's going to take a little while to get used to it, but give yourself a good three months to get your budget to start working and stick to it. You can download EveryDollar, it's a free budgeting app and it's awesome to help you get started if you've never done a budget before. But being intentional with where your money goes is tip number one, by far.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. And I will put a link to EveryDollar in the show notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Finally, tell us what you're up to. I know you're back from maternity leave, you've got your show, I adore the first four episodes so far. What's coming up next?

Rachel Cruze:
Yes, well thank you. Yeah, well the show, The Rachel Cruze Show, is one that I am so excited about. We did four episodes right before I went on maternity leave and we're actually finishing up episode one today, we're filming some of it today, which is so fun. So it will be out on YouTube and Facebook, so you can follow and subscribe to both of those, and it will be really just this 30-minute show compact with guests and content and segments all around how money fits into your life, but we have fun with it. I mean, there's fashion tips, there's cooking tips, I mean, it's basically how do you live your life well and be wise with your money all at the same time. And so it's been a really fun project to work on and one that we're continuing to do, which is great, for the ongoing foreseeable future. So I'm really excited about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I will tell everyone, they're really well produced, this is coming from a former TV producer. They are really put together very well, very watchable. You'll probably end up binging, so just leave enough time to invest in watching the episodes because they really are terrific and they really are put together well.

Rachel Cruze:
Well thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And great for, especially for moms, but really for anyone. Even cooking tips, baby tips, big kid tips, everything, it's just terrific. So thank you so much. And where can people find you, in terms of social media and all that stuff?

Rachel Cruze:
Yes, @rachelcruze and it's C-R-U-Z-E. So Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, I'm all there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Rachel Cruze, this has been great.

Rachel Cruze:
Yeah. Thanks Bobbi, thanks for having me on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, who has not wanted that fancy purse a friend or a relative has? We're all guilty of that. Even maybe we saw it in an ad or on social media, but as Rachel pointed out so well, her parents are at a totally different life stage. So Financial Grownup tip number one, live your age-appropriate financial life. If you're an empty nester for example, with a comfortable retirement nest egg, pun intended, and it allows for, say, super fancy handbags or some other luxury splurge, go for it. But if you are one of the millions of people just starting out your adult financial life, or maybe you're also new parents, or you have typical early-career income for someone in their 20's, maybe early 30's, and you have goals, like paying off debt or saving for a down payment for a home, maybe you have young kids. You have age-appropriate financial realities and that's okay, don't beat yourself up about it, you're doing great. If you really want a fancy handbag for some event, or just to have around for a little bit, you could rent at places like Bag Borrow or Steal, or Rent the Runway.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, social media driven envy is a real thing, we're all human. Whether it's a friend's vacation photos or they just always look so put together, don't make assumptions, live in your own world. That's something Rachel talks about in her book, Love Your Life, Not Theirs. So many young people are now coming forward admitting they literally do things, literally go on vacation, on trips, they buy specific items, to make their life seem Instagram-worthy. Friends, you have better things to do. And by the way, all those cool things may not even be theirs. You'd be surprised how many people are on the rental bandwagon, so maybe get on it. Or maybe just do without it completely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all so much for your support and feedback. I truly appreciate everyone who has subscribed, rated, reviewed the podcast, it's amazing. Thank you in advance for anyone who now goes, hint hint, and maybe takes the time to write a review, subscribes and so on. And also, I really enjoy hearing from you, so thank you to those of you who have been communicating through Instagram and Twitter, Facebook and so on. Keep doing that, I'm on twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and of course go to my website, bobbirebell.com, and sign up for my newsletter so I can keep everyone posted on what's going on with the podcast. Rachel's story was so great, I hope you guys enjoyed it as much as I did, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Million Dollar Listing star Ryan Serhant, whose new book “Sell It Like Serhant” is already a best seller, and his younger brother Jack had what seemed like a brilliant idea for firewood a business at age 10. While the business went down in flames, the lessons formed a foundation for Serhant’s extreme success in the real estate and entertainment business. 

In Ryan's money story you will learn:

-Why he says he was not a natural salesperson

-How 10-year old Ryan and his 7-year old brother started a firewood business to make money on their family farm

-The challenges the boys faced including difficult customers, and uncooperative vendors

-Why they were literally left on the side of the road by a worker!

In Ryan's money lesson you will learn:

-How to deal with challenging customers

-Why you have to anticipate an be prepared with realistic expectations when you start a business

In Ryan's everyday money tip you will learn:

-How to use the faces app to motivate you to work harder for your future!

-The specific way that photo helps Ryan avoid overspending

-The impact that the failure of Lehman Brothers had on Ryan's outlook

Ryan and Bobbi also talk about:

-Why Ryan belonged to three gyms

-Ryan's daily routine and how can apply parts of it to your life

-Tips on how entrepreneurs can structure their days

-Why Ryan studies the top business leaders

-Ryan's Finder, Keeper, and Do-er system

-How many times you need to follow up if you want to work for Ryan!

In My Take you will learn:

-How to use the tips from Ryan's book Sell it Like Servant for both offense and Defense when it comes to sales techniques

-How to take Ryan's strategy of studying high achievers to the micro level and apply it to your own life meeting and learning from others

EPISODE LINKS:

Find out more about Ryan at

https://ryanserhant.com

Follow Ryan!!

Instagram @ryanserhant

Twitter @ryanserhant

Get Ryan’s Book "Sell it Like Serhant"

sellitlikeserhant.com

Check out Ryan’s Vlog! youtube.com/ryanserhant

Learn more about Ryan's hit Bravo shows!

Million Dollar Listing New York

Sell It Like Serhant



BIO:

Ryan Serhant began his first day in the real estate business on September 15, 2008 – the same day that Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy in the wake of the subprime mortgage collapse. While the real estate sector has steadily recovered, Serhant himself has quickly become one of the most successful brokers in the world, with agents under his leadership in New York City, Los Angeles, Miami and the Hamptons. The Serhant Team has been named by WSJ Real Trends as the #1 real estate team in New York for two years in a row, and the #2 team in the country, selling close to $1 billion in real estate last year. Ryan is consistently the youngest broker to make the Journal’s top ten list each year.

Ryan stars in the popular Bravo series “Million Dollar Listing New York,” which just wrapped its seventh season. On September 18, 2018 – the week of his 10-year anniversary in real estate – he will debut his first book, Sell It Like Serhant. When pre-sales were announced, Ryan was #1 on Amazon’s daily list of “Movers and Shakers.” As star and producer, this year he also debuted his new Bravo show, "Sell It Like Serhant," started a successful vlog (www.youtube.com/ryanserhant) and launched an app (Agent Empire: NYC). There is nothing Ryan can't do. His motto communicates his professional and personal philosophy, "Expansion. Always. In all ways."

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Transcription

Ryan Serhant:
We got into this fight with this one guy that wanted us to stack his would be in a strange way in his house around all the different fireplaces, because I also didn't prepare for how people wanted the wood actually delivered. And my delivery guy got really pissed off, got in his pickup truck and he drove off and left me and my little seven-year-old brother on the side of the street.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Financial Grownup friends, that was million-dollar listing star and newly minted author, Ryan Serhant, getting real about his first sale experience. It did not go well. Thanks everyone for joining me. This episode is a big deal, and not just because of Ryan Serhant. He is a big deal, though. It's even bigger because it is Episode 100 of the Financial Grownup podcast. We are also celebrating being a finalist for best new personal finance podcast at the Plutus Awards. And, the paperback of my book, How to be a Financial Grownup, is coming up October 2nd. None of this would be possible without my amazing editor and secret weapon, Steve Stewart. So, thank you, Steve. And thanks to all of you for joining us on this journey.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, to the fantastic Ryan Serhant. When you read his book, Sell It Like Serhant, and if the title sounds familiar, yes, he has another reality TV show on Bravo called Sell It Like Serhant, you're going to learn more about this incredible guy. But of note, he says he was not a natural salesman. That came later after learning from experience. So, we talked about how he learned about sales and being successful in business. Here is Ryan Serhant.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Ryan Serhant, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Ryan Serhant:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And happy pub day, we are taping this on the day that you're amazing book, Sell It Like Serhant: How to Sell More, Earn More, and Become the Ultimate Sales Machine, is coming out. It's already a bestseller and comes on the heels of so much other success. Like million-dollar listing New York, and my new obsession, your vlog. So, congrats on all.

Ryan Serhant:
Oh, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk to you about your money story that you brought. It has to do with the very first experience you had in sales, which makes perfect sense coming from the ultimate sales guy. Tell us about the firewood and your brother.

Ryan Serhant:
So, I wasn't a natural salesperson. And I think it's very hard for people to be born as natural sales people. And what that even means, I could write a whole nother book about it. But I was a very shy and little kid. All I knew was that in order to be able to have money to spend, I had to make money. And if my parents weren't going to give it to me and if I was in school and was too young to get a job, what could I do?

Ryan Serhant:
We lived on a farm outside Boston, and my little brother was seven. We were doing a lot of ... my parents were kind of like cutting down trees and making way for pastures and things like that. And I just saw all these trees laying all over the place. And asked my dad one day, "What are you doing with all of those streets?" He was like, "Wow, they get cut off, they get sold off. They get turned into malts. It just kind of gets recycled." And I was like, "Well, we have fireplaces in our house and we get firewood, don't you buy that from somewhere? What if we take the trees and we cut it up and I sell the firewood?" I had no idea how he's going to do it, I was not big enough to hold an axe. But my dad said. "Okay."

Ryan Serhant:
He said, "What's your company going to be called if you're going to be a firewood selling company?" And we took out a little ad in our local newspaper. I think it was called Ryan Jack, because my little brother's name is jack, Firewood Company. I think that's literally what it was.

Bobbi Rebell:
Who paid for the ad, Ryan?

Ryan Serhant:
We did out of our minimal allowance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So, this was your startup capital costs?

Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, that was our startup capital cost. Because they were doing all this tree clearing anyway, there was a wood splitter that was already there. And my little brother and I started splitting wood, and we bulk it up into chords, and we put it in the back of a pickup truck. And then we would get the guy that kind of was helping cut down the trees to be our delivery guy to then go supply people with their firewood. And that was our first little business. And it came crashing down.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, that's what I was going to say. There were some challenges, things you didn't think about.

Ryan Serhant:
Well, I didn't think about customer service and how to deal with people who are unhappy with their firewood. All I knew was I live at this house down the street, there's a bunch of cut down trees, we're going to cut it up and sell it. What do you mean that there's different types of firewood, different types of trees, different types of drying, termites, all these things I didn't even think about?

Ryan Serhant:
So, we had some tough customers in the beginning, and I also didn't think about how I was going to get the word anywhere. So, I thought that the guy that was cutting down trees was going to help and just help us drop it off, we're little kids. But he wanted to cut, and then we got into this fight with this one guy that wanted us to stack his wood really really in a strange way in his house around all the different fireplaces, because I also didn't prepare for how people wanted to what actually delivered. And my delivery guy got really pissed off, got his pickup truck, and he drove off and left me my little seven-year-old brother on the side of the street which is random guy.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're kids. Oh, my gosh.

Ryan Serhant:
Yap. That was the end of our firewood business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, in the end, was there a profit or loss when all settled in?

Ryan Serhant:
Definitely a loss. I don't know how much we lost, because I didn't really understand what my time was worth at 10 years old.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Ryan Serhant:
And our capital cost was that one ad. We might have run two ads. I can't remember what they cost. Maybe it was 20 bucks and ad. It wasn't a huge loss, but it definitely was a ding to the self-esteem that maybe I don't want to run my own firewood selling business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Glad you moved on to real estate. What's the takeaway for our listeners?

Ryan Serhant:
The takeaway from that is anticipate and be prepared with realistic expectations. Just having wood to chop down and sell it is a very, very small part of actually creating a firewood selling business. So, you need to be prepared for all the objections and all the issues you're going to run into.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which are things that apply to all sales, which we'll get to in just a minute. I just want to get to your everyday money tip.

Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, there's something that I have in the office. That is a photo of myself as an 80-year-old man. There's this app you can get on your phone called the Faces App, someone just showed it to me. You take your photo of yourself and it realistically ages you, which is pretty crazy. But that photo is future Ryan. And every day, I think about that guy. Because I mean, it feels like just yesterday that I was that 10-year-old kid selling firewood or trying to sell it anyway. Before I know it, I'm going to be that guy. And everything I do today is for him. It's not for Ryan this coming weekend, it's not for Ryan next year. All of that is going to happen regardless. But I don't want 80-year-old Ryan pissed off at 34-year-old Ryan because he made poor money decisions or poor savings decisions, or he's just spent too much. That is my money tip.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is a great one. So, is there a specific ... Can you remember maybe one example of you kind of not being that motivated and then looking at that photo and being like, "Yeah, I got to do this."

Ryan Serhant:
Every time I think about spending money on things that don't need, I look at that photo. It's just like I ... and I don't want to sound cheap. But I don't need that many pairs of shoes. I run around the suit all day long. I don't need that many suits. Little things where I could have spent money and just because I have it or just because whatever, it's just credit, I think about that like, "You know what? I should save it, because compound interest is a powerful thing." And it's better off just being saved because you never know what could happen.

Ryan Serhant:
And at the end of the day, I got into sales business the day Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy, and I will never forget the pain that a lot of people went through at the end of 2008. And that's going to come back again, I don't know when. But it's probably going to come back multiple times by the time that I'm that old man in the photo that I have by my computer screen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book, because I'm learning so much. Not so much as someone that sells, but as someone that is sold to. So, it's quite eye opening, Ryan, the things that happen.

Ryan Serhant:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's kind of written as an offense, but it can also be defense. So, I want to go through some of my favorite things in your favorite things in the book. We talked before we started taping about your day. Tell us how a successful person at age, by the way, you're all of 34, you're always one of the journalist top sales people, you've been winning all kinds of accolades as a salesperson, and you're only 34. What do you? What's your day look like?

Ryan Serhant:
I start my day at 4:30, Monday through Friday. And it's just because I want to squeeze out as much of the day as I possibly can. I don't want-

Bobbi Rebell:
Are you sleeping at 8:00 or ... How much sleep do you get?

Ryan Serhant:
I try to go to bed by 11:00.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, you don't sleep a lot of hours.

Ryan Serhant:
Not Monday through Friday. I'll sleep in on Saturdays to like eight or so. A lot of people just wake up and go to a job or go to work, and they don't really sit down and try to game plan for their career. I only have a few things during the day that I do that I consider part of my job. Everything else I do is for growth and for my career as a whole to make that 80-year-old guy happy one day. And a lot of that goes down to how you structure your actual day.

Ryan Serhant:
And for any sales people who are listening, any entrepreneurs, anybody who really answers to themselves, I had to figure out, what do I do at 9:00 a.m.? Do I cold call? Do I go out on the streets? No one's telling me what to do. And so, I looked at the top companies in the world, even I was just one person and I said, "Okay, all just top companies have CEO, CFO, COOs, I need to have the same thing, even though I'm just one person. So, that means I got to do it all on my own, and not all the same time, I need to separate it. You know what? The CEO, I'm going to call the finder, because I'm not really my own CEO. But I can be a finder of new business, a finder of new leads, a finder of work that the rest of my company can do for the rest of the day. I'm going to do that from 8:00 to 10:00 a.m. 12:00 to 1:00 p.m., I'll be the keeper, so that's the CFO hours. That's when I would think about, "Okay, well, I've $10 to spend today. How many stamps can I buy with that $10?"

Ryan Serhant:
And I would think about kind of the financial health of my "company", which when I first started was nonexistent. And now it's really thinking about all the advertising budgets that we have, and the people and the moving and the salaries. And then the rest of the day, I'd spend being the doer. So, finder, keeper, doer is what I call it, FKD. So, finder, keeper, doer, and the rest of the day I'd spend as the doer, which is the COO. Sets operations, it's doing the work, it's doing-

Bobbi Rebell:
Which just a few can delegate more now.

Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, which now, the majority of my day is as the finder. When I started, the majority of my day was as the doer. I'd think for half an hour or an hour, because I didn't have that much to think about as to how I wanted to grow my business, I didn't have any money. So, that wouldn't take me that long to think about. And then the rest of the day, I put everything into action. Now, I have a team that can handle a lot of the doer work, and a team of accountants and bookkeepers that can handle a lot of the financials. And I spend 75% of my day as the finder, as that CEO trying to build the business.

Bobbi Rebell:
One thing I loved regarding Finder, and getting new business in the book was your strategy initially, and I don't know if you still do this. I can't imagine you have time to do this. You saw that it was working to meet people at the gym, potential clients. So, you expanded on that.

Ryan Serhant:
Yes. I think it's important to do what works for you, and then just to do it over and over again in as many different places as you can.

Ryan Serhant:
I knew when I first moved to New York City, I'm not from New York. It's not going to help me or be a good use of my time to go to school functions that other brokers are going to just because they went to school on the Upper East Side, or to go to the church, or go to the synagogue, just to say that I'm religious, but I'm not, just to meet people, which is what most sales people do. So, for me, I really had work, I would do to the gym. And the gym was a good place for me to meet people who had a similar interest, which was kind of general fitness. And if I go to a nice gym, maybe they also could afford a nice apartment, so they can afford a nice gym. And that worked. I saw it worked. And I said, "Okay, you know what? This is now my thing. So, I'm going to go to another gym as well. And then I'm going to go to another gym. And I'm going to go to as many jobs as I can, because that's what works for me. And that's going to be where I build my network." And then for the first couple years, that's really what I did.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the thing that you make people do if they really want to work for you? It's not just about one follow up.

Ryan Serhant:
Oh, I make them follow up for a considerable period of time. Because the power of follow up is my whole business. Deals live and die by how persistent I am to get the deal done. And I tell everybody, I don't work for anyone. I work for the deal all the time as a salesperson. And my job is to get that deal done to everybody's benefit. And so, if people want to work for me, I interview them, for sure. I have them interview a couple people on the team. But then I just, I call them. I let them sit and I wait to see how often they're going to follow up with me. Most people will follow up once, twice, maybe three times. And after that, they let it go.

Ryan Serhant:
You know how many deals I would have lost if I let it go after three follow ups? Unbelievable. So, I can't have that kind of person on my team. They got to want to be on my team more than I want them to be there, because that's the person who's going to be hungry enough to get difficult deals done for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So much amazing information in your book and on your vlog, by the way. We didn't really talk about that. That's million-dollar listing, I didn't really realize this until you talked about it in your book, it's only on for three months of the year. So, people need to be watching your vlog.

Ryan Serhant:
Yeah, I think so. I put it out there as a way to put out a lot of the rest of my life and a lot of things that just aren't on Bravo. Bravo is real estate focused and it follows the individual deals. It's not with me in the car 24 hours a day, kind of in my thoughts and in my mindset, and that's what the blog is for.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. All right. Tell people where they can find you, follow you, find out more, get the book, all that good stuff.

Ryan Serhant:
The book just came out today, it's called Sell it Like Serhant, it's everywhere books are sold. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, you can find all the links at sellitlikeserhant.com. You can find me across all social media platforms at Ryan Serhant, and the vlog is @youtube.com/ryanserhant.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Ryan. This was great.

Ryan Serhant:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's unpack some of the things that Ryan said. Financial Grownup tip number one. I read Ryan's book twice. The reason I went back was to take notes. Now, I'm not in sales, at least not in a direct way. But I think it is important for all of us to understand how sales work, and the specific techniques that are being used so you can spot them. I joke about offense and defense, but that is important too. Because if we're being honest, who hasn't bonded with a salesperson, and then because of that felt they should, and sometimes did buy something they maybe wouldn't have bought otherwise? Always know that a good salesperson like Ryan will be in it for the long haul. And you can just push back. And even if you aren't a customer, now, you may be in the future. Also, the next best thing you can do is refer them to friends and family as potential customers. It's okay to do what's right for you, even if you feel an allegiance to the salesperson. We're all human.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Ryan talks about how he studied the most successful companies and what top executives do. Take this to a micro level and find someone that you admire and ask them if they will talk to you. It can be coffee, a meal, or going for a walk. And if you can, maybe even ask if you can shadow them for a day at work. I did this early in my career. Just observe and learn. And if they're open to it, ask a lot of questions. Most people are flattered.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, I am off to Orlando to FinCon and celebrating this 100-podcast milestone with some friends. I hope you guys will DM me and let me know what you want to see in the next 100 episodes. On Twitter, I am @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1. I have some big changes coming that I will reveal soon, so please subscribe and make sure you go into settings and hit auto download so you don't miss any episodes. Until then, feeling really grateful to Ryan Serhant for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Refinery 29’s work and money vertical editor Lindsey Stanberry and her frugal husband were checking all the boxes as financial grownups. But when they had a child, the new parents found themselves scrambling to make sense of their new urge to splurge. 

In Lindsey's money story you will learn:

-The financial changes that come with having children

-How to adapt a budget when financial values change

-Tips on how make career decisions while balancing a family

In Lindsey's money lesson you will learn:

-How big changes impact little everyday purchases 

-Two of Lindsey's biggest financial regrets

In Lindsey's every day money tip you will learn:

-The benefits of a high-yield savings account

-The app she uses to sell her clothes and make extra cash

Bobbi and Lindsey also talk about

-Her new book Money Diaries

-What women are spending their money on right now

-The Money Diaries series updated regularly on Refinery 29

In My Take you will learn:

-Ways to save money on baby clothes

-Travel more! Ways to plan amazing trips whether you have kids or not

EPISODE LINKS

https://www.refinery29.com/

Follow Lindsey!

Instagram @lestanberry

Twitter @lestanberry

Follow Refinery 29!

Instagram @refinery29

Twitter @refinery29

Facebook @Refinery29

Check out the companies Lindsey mentioned! 

Poshmark 

Capital One 

Trader Joes 

Bank of America 

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Transcription

Lindsey Stanber:
He has said to me recently he would spend all the money on our kid if we needed to. But that doesn't stop him from being slightly annoyed when I pick out organic hot dogs that we will probably throw away because our son will not eat them.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Refinery29 Money Diaries author Lindsey Stanberry talking about how her natural instinct to always save money took a nose dive after the birth of her son. I think a lot of new parents can relate to this, feeling like they would spend their very last penny on their kid even if things were very different before baby.

Bobbi Rebell:
Welcome, everyone. We keep the show short, about 15 minutes, because you're busy, but if you have a little more time, feel free to do a little bit of binging, and if you like the show, maybe do a screen grab and share it so we can grow the podcast. And speaking of growing the podcast, big news, Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast for the Plutus Awards which celebrate excellence in money content. So thank you for all of your support.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the paperback of my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup, is coming out in October. So if you have not had a chance to read it, I hope you'll check it out, and again, share with someone you care about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Refinery29 Money Diaries and our amazing guest, Lindsey Stanberry. Now, the book grew out of Refinery29's popular series by the same name and gives a very detailed, and I mean detailed, look of the spending habits of millennial women. The stories are jaw dropping. The reactions to them are dramatic in the comments. But I wanted to know more about Lindsey and her money diary stories so I pushed her to talk about something that she has yet to reveal, and that is money life after baby and what that does to one's money diary.

Bobbi Rebell:
She and her husband were the best of budgeters. They didn't eat out. They were champion savers. They bought an apartment in their 20s and were checking all the boxes on retirement and investing until they had the baby. And then it all went poof, well, not all poop, but life changed. Here is Lindsey Stanberry.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Lindsey Stanberry, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Lindsey Stanber:
Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of Money Diaries so I could not have been more excited when your book Money Diaries from Refinery29 came out. Congratulations on all the early success because it just was released, and of course, it is number one new release on Amazon. Love it.

Lindsey Stanber:
Generally awesome. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you did this all in a very busy time in your life because not only are you married, you have a relatively young child, I think a one-year-old? Is that correct?

Lindsey Stanber:
Ike has just turned two.

Bobbi Rebell:
He just turned two. So happy birthday.

Lindsey Stanber:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that brings us to your money story. Do tell.

Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. So I've talked a lot of in the past about how my husband and I saved $100,000 to buy our first apartment in New York. And my husband is very frugal, and by extension, I've become more mindful of my money. Two years ago, when we had our son, we knew it was going to change our budget. We had to sell that apartment and buy a new one and start paying for child care, and we anticipated those big expenses. But I was really shocked at how my time became much more valuable than it had ever been before. And I talk about in the book this incident where my husband and I were at Trader Joe's having a fight over organic yogurt.

Lindsey Stanber:
My son is an incredibly picky eater. He has been since the moment we introduced solids. We will try everything, and we end up throwing away all that food. And it drives me absolutely crazy. And I write in the book about this experience of realizing that my time is so valuable, and I'm wiling to spend more money in ways that I never anticipated and had never before. My husband dubbed it Baby bourgeois.

Lindsey Stanber:
So it's been a weird and stressful experience for us. And I just had to kind of let go of some of that control and feel appreciative that we were so careful with our money in our 20s when we were able to just worry about ourselves.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us an example of something that you spent money on, now that you have a child, that you never would have thought have spending money on before?

Lindsey Stanber:
People think that I'm crazy but like service fees to go to the movies. We would have never in a million years paid extra money to reserve tickets online. We would specifically go early to the box office to buy the tickets, and we would save the $2. And now, it's just like well if you want to see the movie, first of all, you're going to have to find a babysitter, and that's really expensive, and then you want to make sure you can actually get into the movie. So we're pre-buying our movie tickets now, and that $2 is just out the window.

Lindsey Stanber:
But then also stuff like we would never pick up milk from the place around the corner because it was $1 more, but now we do because I want more time with my kid. I don't want to go out in the rain. I am tired after working and writing a book and taking care of a baby. But it's also made me a lot more ambitious. I care about earning money more than I have before which surprised me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us an example of that.

Lindsey Stanber:
Well, I think that when you think about things like negotiating or saying yes to something, I took on this book, which is an incredible opportunity, but I did take it on top of my regular job and on top of having a kid. And I knew I was going to have to make some sacrifices in my personal life, but I did that with the idea that this would be something that would help me grow my career, and that would ultimately be good for my family and, in theory, help me earn more money in the long run.

Lindsey Stanber:
So it's a real push pull, and I think that I am more excited about opportunities, but I'm also more careful about what I say yes to.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's interesting though also is that you and your husband don't always approach spending as parents in exactly the same way. Tell us about that.

Lindsey Stanber:
He was a reluctant parent and very open about that, and I appreciate that. He said to me recently he would spend all the money on our kid if we needed to. But that doesn't stop him from being slightly annoyed when I pick out organic hot dogs that we will probably throw away because our son will not eat them. It's been a struggle for both of us to figure out how this spending is changing.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?

Lindsey Stanber:
I think people expect those big expenses. They expect that childcare will be a huge chunk of their budget, but they don't think about the small things. I joke in the book I'm never going tell you not to buy a latte, but enjoy buying that latte and saving that money when you only have you to worry about because your finances do change so significantly when you have a kid and in a good way. I'm happy to spend my money on him. I say that in the dedication to the book. It's a joy, but it does really change things, and it's really important to talk about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there things that you look back on that you would have done differently?

Lindsey Stanber:
There's two things. I wish I had started investing earlier. I was always very nervous about the stock market, having been a young adult when the recession happened last time, and I have always felt really intimidated by that, and I wish we had been smarter and not sat on so much cash. And this is the thing that would have cost money, but I wish we had traveled more. It's expensive now to do it with a kid, and we could have done it cheaply and smartly. And we worked so hard in our 20s, and I'm really proud of the work we did, but I definitely wished we would have taken a few more vacations.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hear you. Traveling with kids and with a family is a lot. All right. Let's talk about your everyday money tip because that is a way that people can pretty much instantly, at least, have a trickle more cash. Maybe a little extra money for their latte or maybe money to then move into other kinds of investments. Do tell.

Lindsey Stanber:
One thing that we recommend in the book is getting a high-yield savings account. I have a Bank of America account and a Capital One account and the differences in their 401Ks is crazy. Bank of America I think is like zero, zero, zero ... It's negligible. I get like 38 cents every quarter versus my Capital One savings account, which I think is like 1.85, and I have a nice little emergency fund in there and so I get a little bonus each month that I kind of consider my free money. My husband just bought some sunglasses, and I was like, "Oh, I think that some of our interest rate covered that. So don't worry about it," which is not necessarily the most responsible way to think about that interest rate, but it is nice to have that little extra bonus.

Lindsey Stanber:
We talk about side hustles in the book too, and that's a way that we saved a lot of money. So there's lots of little tweaks that you can make to find cash that can be used to buy that latte.

Bobbi Rebell:
What other tweaks do you have? Other ideas?

Lindsey Stanber:
I am such a fan of selling clothes on Poshmark. It's a little embarrassing. I'm totally addicted, and I use that money to buy new clothes. I'm a little bit more careful about my shopping these days because of said child.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you get your kids clothing then? Do you buy new or are you buying that off the websites? Does Poshmark do kids clothing? I know there's a lot of other ones for kids.

Lindsey Stanber:
I think they do. I don't ever buy cloths. I have two very doting grandmothers who dress him, and I never buy anything. There's a really fantastic kind of underground parent exchange at both Refinery and among my friends. So we do lots of hand-me-downs and trades. And I didn't buy a car seat for a long time because I used my boss's, and yeah, it's been great. And then I just hand that all off to other people. So clothing, my kid is cheap. It is free. Feeding him is not.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We're going to talk later. We're going to work on that food thing. I have some ideas for you about that.

Lindsey Stanber:
Okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about Money Diaries because this came out of a successful series that you have shepherded over at Refinery29. Tell us more about the book because what I love about this is it's really similar to my mission here at Financial Grownup. It's really about opening the door to very personal and candid stories about the reality of how people actually approach their money in different situations but so many universal themes.

Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. It was really important to me that this book, not shame the readers. We present Money Diaries without judgment. And the comment section on Money Diaries can be, at times, very judgmental. But for us, from Refinery perspective, we don't want you to feel bad. I think that there's so much ... Especially for women, there's a lot of guilt around both earning money and spending money, and I really wanted to get rid of that and to just really talk to our readers like you do, like a grown up, and not be condescending or a bully or make them feel bad because they like to buy a latte on their way to work every morning because they hate their job.

Lindsey Stanber:
So it's really thinking about how your spending impacts your life now and how it can impact your future, and that future doesn't need to be 100 years from now when you're retiring. It can be what you do next year or what you do five years from now.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what's interesting is that a lot of these stories reveal trends that you see, not only the stories in the book, but it's an ongoing living series on Refinery29.

Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. It's really interesting to see how women interact with their money and how there are things that are deeply personal. There are things that are ... We don't reveal anything about race or ethnic background in these or sexuality, but if you're a careful reader, you can pick up some clues. And so it's very interesting to see how a woman of color manages her money versus the famous intern who is getting $3,000 a month from her parents. It's fascinating-

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Which do get a lot of judgy comments to say the least.

Lindsey Stanber:
On both sides, they're getting judgy comments. So it's interesting. But then we do see trends like there's a lot of spending on self-care right now because people are really uncomfortable in this political climate, and we see couples struggling to figure out how they're going to manage their finances. A lot of women who are maintaining separate bank accounts and tracking every dollar that their partner spends. It's really interesting. I always say that personal finance is very personal, but there are definitely themes and things that we go back to again and again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I know you're going on a book tour so I want you to give people all the information about how they can find out about that and follow you and Refinery29 on all the socials.

Lindsey Stanber:
Yeah. So you can read Money Diaries daily at Refinery29. We also have an awesome Facebook group. And of course, you can follow Refinery on Instagram and Twitter, and you can find me on Twitter and Instagram as well at lestanberry and I will be doing lots of fun stories around the book tour. I'm really exited about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you, Lindsey.

Lindsey Stanber:
Thank you so much, Bobbi. Super fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so think about what would be in your money diary and would you have the courage to share it publicly. Hm. Here's my take on what Lindsey had to say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number 1. She talked about free clothing for kids. Well in addition to the places that she mentioned, which are great, especially, grandparents, parenting Facebook groups are a great way to get not just free clothing, but also toys and furniture. Be sure to join one that is hyper local because very often the givers only ask is that you come to them and pick it up in person.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number 2. Lindsey mentioned that she regretted not traveling more before kids, and I couldn't agree more. For my family if all five us go, it is a lot. I mean breakfast alone, crazy. So another challenge is that kids have different interest, especially if you have kids that are boys versus girls or are different ages, which are spread out. That's what I have. I have older step-kids that are now in college, and then I have an 11 year old.

Bobbi Rebell:
So one idea is to do smaller, one or two kid trips. You don't all have to go. And you could have one parent go and not just two. So for example, we recently went, my husband and I, with the 11 year old to Iceland, just him. Another time, my husband took the older two kids to Washington DC when my son was younger because he wouldn't have been interested. He would have been bored to tears, but it was a great time for the older kids to go and see the nation's capitol.

Bobbi Rebell:
Each time, it was three of us on a trip, which is a lot less than five if you can imagine. And usually, at that point, you can be hotel room, which makes a huge difference. And we weren't dragging kids that didn't want to be there. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do one trip at least a year or some trips with all of you, it just doesn't have to be every trip with everyone. And the more direct one-on-one time is also really special. And when you take just some, maybe it's a good time for the kids that aren't going to spend time with other relatives like grandparents or aunts and uncles.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Show notes can be found at Bobbirebell.com/podcast/lindseystanberry where we'll have all the information that she said at the end about how to follow Money Dairies and all the places that she mentioned. Be sure to [inaudible 00:16:12] me on all the socials. I am at bobbirebell1 on Instagram, bobbirebell on Twitter. Find out more about the podcast at Bobbirebell.com/Financialgrownuppodcast, and thanks to Refinery29 Money Diaries author, Lindsey Stanberry for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownups with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Making time for face time is the best use of time for Bring Your Human to Work author Erica Keswin. She credits her biggest business successes to making the time to connect in person-even when there is no time.

In Erica’s money story you will learn:

-How face-to-face meetings have impacted Erica's business

-Hacks that create more time in your schedule 

In Erica’s money lesson you will learn:

-The benefits of being positive at work
-Strategic steps that make scheduling in person meetings easier

In Erica’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-The negative side of multitasking

-The benefits of getting to know the local Starbucks barista

Bobbi and Erica also talk about:

Groups that Eat Together Perform Better Together - Cornell University Study

In My Take you will learn:

-What phubbing is and how to avoid it

-Tips to forming real connections at work

EPISODE LINKS:

Get Erica’s new book Bring Your Human To Work!

Learn more about the Spaghetti Project!

Follow Erica!!

Instagram @ericakeswin

Twitter @Erica_Keswin

Linked In @Erica Keswin 

Listen to Erica’s friend Shelley Zalis on the Financial Grownup podcast !

---

Transcription

Erica Keswin:
I didn't have time for this meeting, but by investing one hour, which then led to two hours, in that face to face meeting over breakfast, I not only gained a friend but a true business partner.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. You guys know I talk a lot about my walks with friends. Save money, save calories, and all the big ideas that come out of those walks. Today's guest, Bring Your Human to Work author Erica Keswin, is one of my favorite walking buddies, and one of my most motivating and inspiring friends. Just quickly want to welcome our newest listeners, and welcome back everyone else. We keep the shows to about 15 minutes because you're busy, but if you have a little more time, feel free to binge listen, and tell someone you care about to listen as well, so we can grow the show. Of course, please do all the things. Subscribe, rate, review. Do a screen grab if you can. Share it on social, and make sure to tag me so I can thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Erica Keswin. She spent years working as a consultant, partnering with top researchers, and as I personally witnessed, traveling the globe, literally, to interview the most innovative business leaders in person, and you will appreciate why that face time is priceless. IRL all the way. It matters. The result? Bring Your Human to Work: 10 Surefire Ways to Design a Workplace That's Good for People, Great for Business, and Just Might Change the World, which is endorsed by big names, including ... You ready, guys? Katie Couric, Arianna Huffington, Adam Grant, and one of my favorite authors, Charles Duhigg, who you may know as the author of The Power of Habit. This is big, guys. I'm so excited to bring you this interview. Here is Erica Keswin.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Erica Keswin. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Erica Keswin:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I just finished reading your amazing new book, Bring Your Human to Work. It is a very well-researched book, going into depth on a number of companies from JetBlue, to Rebecca Minkoff, and you brought us a money story that has to do with the theme of Bring Your Human to Work. Tell us your money story.

Erica Keswin:
Sure. Last year, I was honored by an organization with an event called 10 Women to Watch. We had our first phone call with all 10 of us about six months before the event, and we went around and introduced ourselves in alphabetical order, and the last person to go was a woman named Shelley Zalis, founder of The Girls' Lounge, and The Female Quotient, and I know she was recently on your show as well, so it's a small world. I had heard of Shelley. I knew her name, but we had never met, and never talked on the phone. When she got done with her introduction, I remember saying to myself, "Wow. This is somebody who is very aligned on so many issues, and perspectives, and things that I think about, and I can not wait to meet her in person." What I didn't know on that call is that when she heard my introduction, she actually felt the same way.

Erica Keswin:
About two months later, I found myself in Los Angeles for a series of work meetings, and I was literally back to back, but I said to myself, "You know what? This is where Shelley lives. I'm gonna reach out, send her an email, and see if she has time to grab breakfast." I did. Long story short, the next morning, we met for breakfast, and the rest is history. She shared with me that she had that same feeling when she heard my introduction. We sat there. We were gonna meet for an hour. We each had meetings. We postponed our meetings, and we ended up there probably for close to two hours in that first meeting, and since that time, we've done work together, supported each other, become friendly. I interviewed her for my book. I've spoken at a number of her Girls' Lounges, and when I walked out of that meeting, I literally said to myself, "I didn't have time for this meeting, but by investing one hour, which then led to two hours in that face to face meeting over breakfast, I not only gained a friend, but a true business partner." It's a good reminder.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because being in person does make all the difference, especially when we spend so much time, as you say, left to our own devices. That's one of my favorite Erica catch phrases.

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. Left to our own devices, we're not connecting, and we need to be intentional. I try to meet at least one or two people in person every week. I mean, you and I will go decide ... That's one of the ways we got to know each other. We decided to go for a walk.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Erica Keswin:
And we didn't need to go for [inaudible 00:05:01], but we could actually go for a walk in the park around the reservoir. I know how great it is when I meet with people face to face, and I can't do it all the time, but by carving out a chunk of my week or my month to do it, it is good for me personally, but it's also been great for my business.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it also allows a space where you know, hopefully, somebody is not multitasking, because very often when we're on these work phone calls, we are distracted. When you're in person, unless you're rude and you're looking at your phone all the time, but I know you and Shelley are not, you're actually in the moment and you're focused on what's going on with that person.

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. I mean, we've all been on those calls where you say, "Erica, what do you think?" And I say, "Wait. What?" Then we all know what I was doing, and it was not honoring that relationship and being present. The technology is designed to suck us in, but again, we need to build in that intention or it won't happen, sadly.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson, then, for our listeners? Because so many of them are saying, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't have time."

Erica Keswin:
The lesson for them is to make the time, be strategic, and I know I've used this word a few times, but it's one of the most important things that I think about, which is be intentional. Look at your week. I know many, many people, every day, they'll take 30 minutes for lunch, and they'll make their doctor's appointments for themselves, or if they have kids, make them for their kids, and sit in their office, and get through their to-do lists. You can't not do that five days a week, so maybe just pick two days where you're gonna walk down the hall, or walk outside the office and meet somebody for a cup of coffee. Fit it into your schedule. All of us can look strategically at their calendar and say to themselves, "Does my calendar match my values?" If this is important to me, you can make it happen, and whether you use a paper calendar, or Google Calendar, the data will be clear, because you can look at where and how you spent your time.

Bobbi Rebell:
All kidding aside, I mean, we absolutely are friends, and we meet to walk as friends, but we have done a lot of talking about each other's businesses. I mean, your other business, the Spaghetti Project, I remember being so excited hearing about that with another friend, Caroline, on a walk. I still remember that walk, because I remember that "aha" moment when I was, "Oh my gosh. Erica is onto something really big." And it happened on one of our walks.

Erica Keswin:
No, it did. It did. The inspiration for the Spaghetti Project came out of research I was doing for the book, and I came across this study out of Cornell University by a professor named Kevin Nixon. Kevin's father was a firefighter, and when he was getting his advanced degree, he studied firefighters and studied firehouses. What he found was that the firefighters who were the most dedicated to that longstanding tradition of the firehouse meal, sitting around the table, building trust, investing in relationships, it was highly correlated with performance, meaning they saved more lives. That was a real goosebump moment for me, and I'm not out there saying we all need to eat together all the time. I know you and I decided to walk together, but there is a correlation between investing in connection and your own personal bottom line, and that of your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
That gives me the perfect intro to your everyday money tip, because that has to do with connecting with the people that we interact with in our daily lives.

Erica Keswin:
Every day, I go into my local Starbucks, and I got to know my local barista. Her name is Ashley Peterson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Featured in your book.

Erica Keswin:
Yup. She's featured in my book, and we developed a relationship over time. She took an interest in me. This was before the app, but she would have my drink ready when she saw me walking in. She got to know my kids. I got to know her personal story. What that led to was that she really would look out for me. Again, whether it was having my drink ready, if she could see the look in my face when I was late for school.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're never late, Erica. You?

Erica Keswin:
Yeah. I am pretty on time to early, but you never know. One of your kids has a tantrum in the morning, it could make you late. But then something so amazing and inspirational happened, again, based on this authentic connection that I had with Ashley. Ashley noticed that one of my kids, my daughter Caroline, developed this taste for their pumpkin scones, which only come out around ... They're seasonal, so they only have them around Halloween. But by November, they were gone. I'll give you only a piece of the story, because you'll read it in the book, but long story short, it's November 4th, Caroline had had her last pumpkin scone. We went by Starbucks. I got my coffee, but there was nothing else to get, and we kept walking to school.

Erica Keswin:
The next thing you know, I hear Ashley calling my name, literally running down Broadway, and I think I'd left my wallet or something in the store, given, again, this was before I bought my drink on the Starbucks app. She ran over, and was breathing so heavy, and she said, "Caroline, I know we're out of pumpkin scones, but now it's November into December and it's Christmas time, and we just got our amazing gingerbread into the store. I think it's something that you might like." It made my day. It made my daughter's day. I have to say, she didn't love gingerbread, especially as much as the pumpkin, but it was this moment for me where I thought, "Wow." This was so unbelievable. It was so human, and she did it because she looked out for me, and we had been mutually building that relationship over time. That became the inspiration for Bring Your Human to Work, because that is what Ashley did in that moment.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Let's talk more about Bring Your Human to Work. I think it was Do Something, where you talk a lot about the desk strategy, and how that office is set up, because the space that we work in also has a big impact on productivity and therefore the success of a company, and the success of you as an employee.

Erica Keswin:
Yes. 100%. One of the chapters in the book is called Space Matters, and what I would say to your audience is that I'm not talking necessarily that you have to go out and spend millions and millions of dollars to have the fanciest space and necessarily look like Google or Facebook. I'm talking about you can think strategically about your space, how people interact, and it doesn't have to cost anything, or doesn't have to cost much. Their phrase, they have something called "the reaping," which is a term named after Games of Thrones, which I'll admit I have not seen the show, but they come in every six months, and everybody knows the day before when the reaping is going to happen, and you come in, and you pick out of a hat, and the first person that picks gets to decide where he or she wants to sit, and then they go from there. One of the interesting things that I've seen in many companies is that if you have a startup, everybody does everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Erica Keswin:
Right? I mean, you and I both know. We're running our own small business. We do everything. But then as you grow and you scale, it is very natural to become more siloed. All of a sudden, if you have 15 people in your company and you're all together all the time, that feels very different than when you're at 100 people or 500 people. However, the more people can talk to each other across functions, it's better for business. Your space impacts performance when you're able to mix up where people sit and how they move around the space, and bump into each other. It not only is good for people to build those connections, but it has a real impact on your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. So excited. The book is finally coming out after so much work I know you've put into it. I'm excited for everyone to finally get to read it. Tell us more.

Erica Keswin:
Great. Yeah. The book comes out on September 25. It's available for pre-order now on Amazon. Just look up Bring Your Human to Work, and if you want to find me, my website is EricaKeswin.com, E-R-I-C-A, K-E-S as in Sam, W-I-N. If you want to learn more about the Spaghetti Project, it's SpaghettiProject.com. You can find me on Instagram, @EricaKeswin, and on Twitter, @Erica_Keswin.

Bobbi Rebell:
Erica, this has been so wonderful and so special, so thank you for joining us.

Erica Keswin:
Thank you for having me. It was great.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Listening to Erica, I feel like I got a whole new perspective on how people interact with each other, not only in person, but also in the way that we communicate through technology. One of those is Financial Grownup tip number one. One of Erica's observations that we didn't get to talk about was something called "fubbing," or phone snubbing. It's when you look at someone directly in the eye, but at the same time, you're texting on your phone. It is a skill that I personally don't have, but it's a thing apparently. Don't do it, even if you do have that skill. As you will read in Erica's book, research has shown this kind of multitasking is not just rude, it's bad for business. Read more in her book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Bring Your Human to Work, as Erica says, but don't leave it at the office. Keep it with you in life. In other words, bring your human to life too, and take a lot of these lessons in addition to work, to your relationships outside of work. For example, next time you are talking to a salesperson or a waiter, or say, just ordering coffee, address the person by name, and look them in the eye. They're gonna appreciate it. It will likely get you better service and make for a better experience for both of you, and as a bonus, sometimes you'll get special treatment, as Erica and her daughter did with Ashley from Starbucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for your support. Financial Grownup is a finalist for Best New Personal Finance Podcast at the [inaudible 00:14:39] awards, which recognizes excellence in money-related content creation. I wrote a pretty long post on it on Instagram, so follow me on Instagram, and check it out for some interesting background on me, and on the Financial Grownup Podcast, and how I got here. I am @BobbiRebell1 on Instagram, @BobbiRebell on Twitter, and learn more about the podcast at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. Don't forget to check out Erica Keswin's new book, Bring Your Human to Work, great ideas for everyone to make their work and their life a little more human, and of course, thanks to Erica for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

The College Investor’s Robert Farrington loved his job at Target. He was also well paid. But he loved his family more. So he made the tough decision to leave and focus full-time on the side hustle that was already throwing off even more income. 

In Robert’s money story you will learn:

-The value of time and how Robert made the decision to leave a job he loved in order to spend more time with him family

-How Robert grew his side hustle from no income into his full-time business

-Advice on how to leave a job on great terms

In Robert’s money lesson you will learn:

-His take on the benefits of growing a side hustle

-The specific obstacles Robert prepared for before taking the lead in his business

In Robert’s every day money tip you will learn:

-The truth behind retail shopping myths

-Quick tips on saving money while grocery shopping

-The number one Black Friday tip

Bobbi and Robert also talk about:

-Where the idea for his website started

-His regrets about leaving his job

-The College Investor and the resources offered online

-The College Investor 6 minute audio show on Apple Music

In My Take you will learn

-How to be honest with employers about having a side hustle - while not oversharing

-How spending time with family during the holidays can be more valuable than rushing out for Black Friday Deals

 

EPISODE LINKS:

Follow Robert!!

Instagram @thecollegeinvestor

Youtube @TheCollegeInvestor

Linkedin Robert Farrington

Listen to The College Investor Podcast https://apple.co/2CqMuC3 

Learn more on The College Investor website https://thecollegeinvestor.com/ 

---

Transcription

Robert Farrington:
Am I really able to say that I value the time I spend with my family and stuff when I'm missing Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and weekends and not able to go to birthday parties?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends, get ready for an episode not really about money, but about living a rich life with your family. It's about the price of your time and the value of your time, and for many of us, not all time is created equal. Target store manager, Robert Farrington, had the money, but he wanted the time. Not just any time. Nights, weekends, and holidays, specifically, the times that most of us get to be with our families, but in retail, not so much. Fortunately, he had something else going on. More on that in a sec.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, a quick welcome to our new listeners and to our returning ones. If you like the show, take a screen grab, share it on social. Then subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes, and make sure that you have it set in the settings for automatic download. With that, let us get to Robert Farrington's story. He now runs a little site. It's actually a really big deal website called The College Investor. And for you early stage entrepreneurs, it was a side hustle with literally zero income. Yes, zero income, no money coming in for the first two years, but that was a while back. He'll tell you more about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, it is his full-time business and it is growing. You're going to love this story. Here is, the College Investor. It's Robert Farrington.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Robert Farrington. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Robert Farrington:
Hey. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are ... And this is trademarked, my friends. You are America's student loan debt expert. You're also the founder and editor of The College Investor, so you have a lot of knowledge to share with us.

Robert Farrington:
Whew. You kind of scare me when you say it all, but yeah. I'm excited to share with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us a quick summary of what The College Investor is and then we're going to move into your money story.

Robert Farrington:
Sounds great. So, The College Investor was started by me as a side hustle in college, because I wanted to share my thoughts on how to invest. But everybody that I knew was like, "That's cool Robert, but I have student loans and other things and I just can't get there yet."

Robert Farrington:
So over the last few years, we've kind of incorporated more about getting out of student loan debt, getting out of debt in general, and how to build wealth so you can start investing even in your early 20s, or in college, so that you can build wealth and set those financial footprints in motion for your future.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, this is where it gets really cool and exciting, because you've been working on this for a very long time. You are married. You have two young children, the oldest one going into kindergarten. You were full time at Target until a year ago and this was your side hustle. And then you were able to make the decision to flip the switch and take your side hustle full time. And that's your money story. Tell us more Robert.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. So about three years ago, I started earning more than my Target job. You know, we were just stashing the money away and didn't really have any plans to leave because you have to understand, I have loved working at Target. It was a great company to work for. I had been there a long time. I was comfortable there. I was probably one of the top performers in my area, so life was really good at Target. But there is one big drawback about working in retail and that is that you have to work nights and weekends, and holidays.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even if you were the manager by then. You were pretty senior.

Robert Farrington:
Right, but I also believe in being a leader, so I would still work my weekends with my team. I would work a night a week with my team and then as the leader, I definitely had to be there on Black Friday and throughout the holiday season. It meant having Thanksgiving lunch at like 12:00 and then going to work at 2:00 in the afternoon on Thanksgiving day, so that we're ready to go when the store opens.

Robert Farrington:
That really became hard as my kids were getting older.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so tell me about the conversation that you had with your wife when this decision was made.

Robert Farrington:
It really was a series of decisions. First off, it was like, this is a cool side hustle. Let's not change anything. And then it was like, wow this is really becoming more of a thing and we can live off this business income on the side. And you don't need to work there. Finally, I really had to think about what we valued as a family. So my wife and I were talking and you hear these things like, "Show me your money and show me your time, and it will tell you what you value." So, am I really able to say that I value the time I spend with my family and stuff, when I'm missing Thanksgiving and Christmas and holidays and weekends, and not able to go to birthday parties.

Robert Farrington:
So, it was really really hard to leave something I was so comfortable with, but at the same time I also wasn't living my truth in that I wasn't necessarily doing exactly what I valued. And we could afford it. I could afford the life I wanted to, and said that I wanted to. And that really was a big part of our conversation with my wife.

Robert Farrington:
The second thing is, is contingency plans. We always had these conversations. I run an online business, so it's like, what happens if the internet goes out tomorrow? Right? Are we going to be financially okay if suddenly there is no income stream. So, it really was about planning and making sure we had enough saved and if the internet did stop tomorrow and I left my day job, would we be okay financially? And we kind of checked all these boxes and once those were all yeses, it was setting a timeline up for when does it make the most sense to leave?

Bobbi Rebell:
They knew about the side hustle right?

Robert Farrington:
It was one of those things. I never hid it, but I was never fully overt about it. It had been on my LinkedIn profile for a decade. My peers, every now and then, I'd get student loan questions from my peers. They'd be like, "I'm trying to pay off my student loans. Can you help me?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, but did the Target management know that this was producing more income than they were paying you?

Robert Farrington:
I never shared that, so I'm 99% sure that they had no idea. In fact, I know most of them didn't because when I left and afterwards, they had a little going away party for me and like, "We wish you the best of luck. We hope this all works well for you."

Bobbi Rebell:
So they had no idea?

Robert Farrington:
Yeah, and I never hid that. So that's the interesting thing. If no one asked, I was very candid. I've been candid even for the last seven, eight years online. On different podcasts and interviews and stuff, so it's out there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did they ever think maybe we should pay him more? If he can make more from a blog, maybe we're underpaying him? Was there any kind of conversation like that, ever?

Robert Farrington:
It's hard, because I was extremely well paid. It was a nice six-figure ... I don't think people realize what you make at Target, but I was, with my bonuses and stuff, I was probably making about $180,000/year when I left.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So, let's go back to quitting. So, how did you actually quit?

Robert Farrington:
So, I really did think about this and planned it out. Because I also, like I said, I wanted to leave on really good terms. I didn't want to burn any bridges, so I actually, my wife and I finalized our plans for leaving in February, or March of last year. We said we're going to leave in September. And I thought this was very respectful from the workload that was going on at Target, but it was also enough time that they could have enough leeway to have everything in place before the holiday season.

Robert Farrington:
I decided that we're going to give a month notice, so I actually told my boss in August. And I probably gave about five and a half, six weeks notice. But I was fully ... You hear these horror stories like, if they were going to walk me out that day or something crazy, I was fully prepared to leave that day. But I was going to be very respectful, and so when my boss came in August, I would say she comes like once or twice a month. When she came in, I just pulled her into my office and said, "I have something really important to share with you." She had no idea what was coming. I said, "Hey. So I have some big changes I want to tell you. I am going to be resigning and I'm going to be pursuing my own endeavors outside of Target. Spending more time with my family."

Robert Farrington:
And the look of shock, she actually texted me like four hours later. So I told her at probably 4:00 in the afternoon, so this was like 8:00 at night. She's like, "I cannot believe this. This is crazy. I'm totally shocked." I totally caught her off guard. But I gave them, like I said, almost six weeks notice. So, I felt like I left in the most respectful and terms possible. Which I also think is the best way to possibly leave if you are going to leave.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the reaction around your store?

Robert Farrington:
Most of them were pretty excited for me. I think all my direct reports actually were much more aware of everything then anybody else above me. And so, it was less of a shock, but same thing. I'm also very diligent in how you let people know, so make sure you have a very strong hierarchy of letting my senior managers know. And then just announcing it downward. Clear communication before I even let them know. So, I don't think I let them know until about a week and a half after I let my boss know. So my boss already had some plans in place, and we were able to share some very specific plans, which I think is really important when you transition in any workplace.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are there things you would do differently, looking back?

Robert Farrington:
I honestly would probably do it sooner. It's one of those things, I was so worried about all these random variables. And I probably gave an extra year or two to Target. And like I said, it's a great company but at the same time, what could I have done in those extra year or two when I could have left longer. That's the only real regret I have.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners?

Robert Farrington:
I think the big lesson is, if you grow this side hustle with your time and energy outside of work instead of watching TV shows, or doing whatever non-productive things you're probably doing outside of work, you could turn this into a full-time job that you're passionate about, you love, and it works with your schedule. So, I think it's definitely a clear path that you can actually achieve if you want to put the time and effort into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your everyday money tip. We're going to tap into your knowledge as a retail expert, having seen it all, from the grassroots level. Tell us what people can do to save money and be better shoppers at stores, not necessarily just Target, but stores like Target. What can they know about pricing, about sales, and so on?

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. Let's debunk some of these myths first. So first off, I always love these Buzzfeed articles that come out. What digits are the last ones that you know what the markdowns are?

Robert Farrington:
Well, let's talk a little bit about math. So almost every price in retail ends in 99 cents, right? So, when you mark something down half off, it's always going to end in eight. Because that's just math. And so when you mark it down 75% off, for the third time, or the second markdown, it's going to end in a four. So, these math strategies that they say are secret hacks, is really just the math of the sales. It's true.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Robert Farrington:
I think people just need to realize that. I think the best thing ... The other thing that people need to realize is that, almost every store Target included, puts the same things on sale every two weeks. So it just alternates, so if you're a regular grocery shopper, you'll notice this a lot. Especially in food, because one week it'll be Coke on sale, the next week it'll be Pepsi on sale. And then it goes back to Coke on sale. Then it goes back to Pepsi on sale. And it's the same sale. It's just goes alternating every other week. And you see this in almost every major retailer, so one, if you have really strong brand allegiance, align your shopping habits with your sale week and you'll probably find that you're going to get that same sale every time you go in because it will line up with your shopping habits.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you said you always have to work, you've always had to work the holidays and especially Black Friday. What's your number one Black Friday tip?

Robert Farrington:
The number one Black Friday tip is that all the ads come online about a month before Black Friday. So you can plan out all your shopping ahead of time. And you have to realize that the door busters at every store, there's only about 10 to maybe 50 of that item. And so, if there's one thing that you really really really really can't live without, if you're not the first 10 to 50 people in line, you're probably not going to get it. So don't waste your time going out there.

Robert Farrington:
The second thing though, that's really emerged over the last couple years is online shopping. So at the same time, a lot of these companies are trying to compete with each other and they're moving their Black Friday sales online and they're moving them on to the week before Black Friday. So you can get a lot of the same great deals online, but without even going to the store, about a week before you even shop.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk more about what's going on with The College Investor. So this is your full-time passion project, slash income, slash growing company. You've got a whole staff there now. You're managing that now. What are you priorities? Where is your growth going to come from? What can people expect and look forward to there?

Robert Farrington:
So if you want to know anything about getting out of student loan debt, and starting to invest, The College Investor has it for you. We have pretty much every topic around student loan debt covered and you know, sadly as much as I don't want this to be the growing reason for our growth, student loan debt in America is growing and it's such a problem for most people. So we have your answers. We have tools and resources that can help you. If you don't like to read, you can also listen to The College Investor audio show. It's a podcast where we change our written articles into a short digestible audio show for you because I know-

Bobbi Rebell:
You love that. Love short.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. I love that.

Robert Farrington:
Short. I mean, I think I beat you because my average show time is like six to eight minutes because we're just talking about the daily article of the day.

Bobbi Rebell:
But that's perfect. That's what people need because everyone's busy. Alright, where can people ... People can obviously reach you at The College Investor, but tell me your social channels et cetera.

Robert Farrington:
Yeah. You can go to thecollegeinvestor.com. You can go to The College Investor audio show. You can find us on YouTube at The College Investor and you can find us on Instagram at The College Investor.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you Robert.

Robert Farrington:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, that pricing math that Robert thinks is so obvious to everyone, I had no clue. What about you?

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on what he had to say. Financial Grownup tip number one. If you have a side hustle, follow Robert's path and be open about it at work. You don't have to be too open. When I went to write my book, How to be a Financial Grownup, the first thing I did was tell my managers and get their okay. Don't hide things. But then also, don't work on it during your work hours and you can be open about your plans, but you don't have to share the whole big picture and all your grand plans.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. I love that Robert chose family over spending time working on the holidays. The same can be said for shopping. Before you race out to get one of those amazing, say Black Friday deals, remember that Robert said, and a lot of you know this already, there are very few available. So, you'll have to get here really early and spend a lot of time, invest a lot of time, to get it. So is saving money really worth cutting into your family time on a holiday? Maybe look online, a different day, ahead of time and set a price alert. Then, if you get that alert, you can spend five minutes buying it online and get back to being with your family. Or, maybe what you have is fine and you don't buy it at all.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before we wrap up, tell me, I want to know, what's your best retail shopping tip? DM it to me. And please, take a minute to follow me on social media. I am @bobbirebell1 on Instagram. bobbirebell on Twitter, and Bobbi Rebell on Facebook. The website to get more information about the show, bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast and for the show notes and more about Robert and the The College Investor, go to bobbirebell.com/podcast/robertfarrington and thanks to The College Investor's Robert Farrington for bringing us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Fran Hauser became a financial grownup very young, helping her immigrant parents build their businesses by doing the books and serving as a liaison to clients as early as 1st grade. The author of “The Myth of the Nice Girl, Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate” now applies those early life lessons to her search for  startup investment opportunities.   

 

In Fran’s money story you will learn:

-How growing up as the english speaking daughter of Italian immigrants impacted her path to being a financial grownup

-What it was like to be preparing invoices for her parents businesses starting in 1st grade

-What she learned about risk and investment from observing her father’s strategies

-How her parents took risks despite their disadvantages, and the impact that had on her current risk tolerance

-How she integrates those skills when she considers startup investors in her current role as an early stage investor

-The specific characteristics she looks for when evaluating startups

In Fran’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to conquer fear of mistakes

-The importance of integrating kindness and respect

In Fran’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How Fran teachers her children about money using a 5 gallon water jug

-How much they saved

-How they spent the money!

In My Take you will learn:

-The impact of saying Thank You instead of Sorry

-How the correct tone in which a message is delivered can make it more effective

Bobbi and Fran also talk about:

-Her new book The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate

-What inspired Fran to write the book after more than a decade of planning

-The unique scripts that are in the book that readers can use to execute the strategies Fran teaches

-What the Nice Girl Army is, and how you can laern more about it

-Fran’s plans now that the book has been a best seller!

Episode Links:

Learn more about Fran at her website Franhauser.com

 

Buy Fran’s book! http://www.franhauser.com/nicegirl/

 

Follow Fran!

instagram fran_hauser

twitter @fran_hauser

  

---

Transcription

Fran Hauser:
When my father was asked to go look at a job, a potential client, and give them an estimate, he wasn't able to understand the directions to actually get to the house. So I would listen in on another phone and write down the directions, and then I would go in the car to the residence, and then I would get out and I basically be the translator.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, that was author, Fran Hauser. Now, this is a very big interview for me because she is very much in demand after her book, The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate, became a huge hit this summer. It has many of us rethinking the things that women thought we had to do to succeed. No more mean girls, and there's a lot in there for men as well. So stay with me everyone, this is not just for women listeners. Special welcome to our new listeners, if you are returning, thank you as well for your support. We keep the shows to about 15 minutes so you can easily fit it into your busy schedule, but we also release three episodes a week. So feel free to binge if you're commuting, just make sure to select auto download after you subscribe so that they'll be in your feed automatically. It's all about making it easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Fran. After a long career in media, which included being the president of digital at Time, she is now an investor in startups, and she got a lot of the training for that from her upbringing being a very active part of her parents businesses. Here is Fran Hauser.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Fran Hauser, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Fran Hauser:
Hi Bobbi, great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the incredible success of your book, The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love, circled in a bright red circle, Without Becoming a Person You Hate, big X over the 'Hate' of course. Since the book's come out it's been named so many different things, including an Amazon Best Business Book of 2018, best new book by People magazine and Refinery 29, most anticipated title of April by Bustle, I mean I could just basically go on. Congratulations on all of that, Fran.

Fran Hauser:
Oh thank you. It's really been amazing, I feel so grateful.

Bobbi Rebell:
You came to us with a story that's really meaningful, because it has to do with your whole family and the money experiences that you learned growing up from your parents, in the town where my sister now lives, Mount Kisco, and you were their bookkeeper in their businesses in first grade, tell us about that.

Fran Hauser:
Yes. So my parents are Italian immigrants who moved to Mount Kisco, as you said, and like many immigrants it took a lot of courage to make this move. They were uneducated, they didn't speak the language, and they were moving to a place that was completely foreign to them. What each of my parents did have though, was a skill. So my father was a stonemason, my mother was really good at sewing, so they both started small businesses. My dad a stonemeasonry business, and my mom opened up a tailoring shop with her best friend. Being the oldest of four, they needed my help, especially when it came to communication. So when I was in first grade I was preparing all of my dad's invoices. One memory that I have is I could only add at that point in time, I couldn't multiply yet, so my aunt actually created a sales tax chart for me, so that if the monthly maintenance was $300, I could see exactly what the sales tax was, and then just add the two numbers together.

Fran Hauser:
So that was first grade, and then even in middle school I was helping my mother with marketing. So helping her come up with a logo, and getting different marketing and sales materials printed. So I got exposed to business at a very young age, and even understanding things like revenue, and expense, cashflow, you know seeing that when more cash comes in than goes out, decisions that need to be made around what to do with that extra money. It was really interested watching my dad because he took some calculated risks and invested in both commercial and residential real estate, which proved to be fruitful. I would say at a very, very, very young age I played this role of bookkeeper/marketer/general manager.

Fran Hauser:
Another vivid memory I have that I'll just share with you is when my father was asked to go look at a job, a potential client, and give them an estimate, he wasn't able to understand the directions to actually get to the house. So I would listen in on another phone and write down the directions, and then I would go in the car with him and we would actually drive to the residence together, and then I would get out and I would basically be the translator for him. So that was my childhood, pretty unconventional.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Very unconventional. How did you assume this role? Were there specific deliberate conversations, or did it just evolve organically as you grew up in the household?

Fran Hauser:
It really evolved organically, because I was the oldest. Really, these things just fell on me. It made sense, if something was broken, even in the house, and needed to be repaired, I would be the one to call the plumber or the contractor, and at the time it felt really hard. It was frustrating, for sure, at times because I just felt so different from all of my "American" friends, who were doing sleepovers and play dates, and I had so much more responsibility. Obviously, looking back, it was actually such an incredible experience, because I learned so much, not just about business but also about risk taking. Watching my parents, who had so much going against them, they were at such a disadvantage, but they were still able to take these risks. Whether it was building these businesses, or investing in real estate, and if you look at my career, I've taken many risks in my career. I've reinvented myself several times. I left Coca-Cola and the late nineties to go to an early stage internet company, Movie Phone. Or five years ago, I left a really comfortable job at Time Inc. to move into startup investing.

Fran Hauser:
So I haven't been afraid to take risks, and I think a lot of that comes from seeing how disadvantaged my parents were, and feeling like if they could take risks, I should be able to.

Bobbi Rebell:
I wanted to ask you, so you mentioned, and I was going to bring this up, that you now are a startup investor. How did this background in business and understanding risks, and understanding strategy and marketing, and even just the basic economics of business, how does that inform your approach as an investor now?

Fran Hauser:
So I think in a lot of ways. For starters, when I'm evaluating the entrepreneurs I'm looking at them and I'm saying, "Do they have the capacity to take risks? Will they jump in with both feet?" And I'm also looking at what kind of mindset do they have? Are they optimistic? I always felt like my parents approached every single venture with such optimism, and with an abundance mindset, and treating people kindly and with respect. So those are things that I really look for in an entrepreneur, and then the other side of it is the brass tactics operational side, which is I feel like I'm really good at looking at financials and understanding what the risks are, really getting nitpicky when it comes to the assumptions that are being used. So I feel like I can look at a PnL pretty quickly, and projected cashflows, and all that good stuff, and I'm just co comfortable. I'm so comfortable with numbers, and I'm so comfortable with looking at forecasts and really trying to make sense of it, and also understanding is there a there there?

Fran Hauser:
The other part too, I would say, is just understanding markets, understanding consumers. I think that also comes from just having spent so much time with my parents clients. So it's impacted me as an investor in so many different ways.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson then, for our listeners from this, that they can apply to their businesses, and to some degree, to their lives?

Fran Hauser:
I would say the lesson is to not be afraid to take risks, and when you do so, really approach it with a mindset of abundance and optimism, and don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to go all in and to jump in with both feet, and then also the last thing I would say, which really ties back to the book, is to treat people with kindness and respect, because I think you look at my parents who barely spoke a word of english, and they were still able to communicate through a lot of nonverbal cues, and a lot of that had to do with being charming, and being kind, and that will take you far.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because the book is really all about being nice, but in a strategic and smart way.

Fran Hauser:
Yes, being nice in a way where you're not a pushover, and you're not veering into people pleasing territory. It's really about how you can be both nice and strong. Those two things are not mutually exclusive, and that you bring both of those into virtually any situation at work.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your everyday money tip, because one thing that I love about this is it's very specific, and tangible, and something we can all do pretty much right away.

Fran Hauser:
Yeah, I love this. So what we do in my house is, instead of a normal piggy bank, we collect coins in a five gallon water jug. The kids love it because it's so much bigger than a piggy bank, and it's clear, so you can see the progress. The last time we cashed it in the coins were worth $4000, and it took us several years to fill it up, but it's just a really fun way to teach your kids about saving and about goals.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you cash it in, what's that experience like? Is it one of the machines, or do you bring it to a bank?

Fran Hauser:
It's actually hysterical because it's so heavy, so what you have to do is we put duct tape over the top of it to close it, and then we literally roll it-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my God.

Fran Hauser:
We have to roll it down the-

Bobbi Rebell:
You could get a smaller container, Fran, you know that?

Fran Hauser:
I know, but it's part of the experience, I guess. So much fun, and then we literally bring it into the bank. The teller always has so much fun with it, because it's not something that they usually see.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you do with the $4000 then?

Fran Hauser:
The first time we did it my husband and I, it was actually pre-kids, so we ended up spending it on a really great spa vacation, which was great. Just the two of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
That works.

Fran Hauser:
That works, right? And now with the kids we're just starting to talk to them about, "Okay, what do we want to spend it on?" And that's also really fun, because it allows you to bat around ideas and then have something that you're really excited about, you have something to look forward to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. We'll have to get an update and put it in the show notes as to where the money goes. I want to spend just a couple of minutes talking about your book, because it's had so much impact.

Fran Hauser:
Yes. The book is really my response to a question that I get asked all the time, which is, "How can you be so nice, and still be successful?" It's just a topic that I've found myself talking about quite a bit, and it's something that I really believe. Being nice, and being empathetic, and collaborative, and having an abundance mindset. All of those things have really served me well in my career. If I think about some of the bigger promotions that I received, or if I was asked to work on a really high profile project, a lot of that came back to my ability to build relationships and earn trust, and a lot of that goes back to being nice.

Fran Hauser:
So the book is really actual, I mean it's inspiring, but I think what makes it special is I am such an operator at heart that I really wanted to make sure that we filled it with tips, and techniques, and scripts. There are so many scripts for navigating sticky situations.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, there are very specific things, because people think, "Well, this happens to me, what do I ..." they literally don't have the words. Like when someone takes credit for an idea that you had, you go into exactly what to do, which is important.

Fran Hauser:
Yes, and I have to tell you one really cool thing, just over the past week I've had three different women tell me that they all got really big raises using my advice in the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Fantastic. And now, you're now working on this Nice Girl Army, right? That's your saying on social media, and you bring together all these different stories that relate to that.

Fran Hauser:
Yes. My Nice Girl Army is actually a group of ambassadors that I put together, probably about six to nine months ago. A lot of them are former mentees, or current mentees, they really love the message in the book, and they've really gotten behind the book. It's basically a Google group I've created where we all communicate with one another, and they've all been so helpful in promoting the book, and I think from a hashtag perspective, it's taken on this bigger movement feel to it. It's just been really fun to see women who I don't know reading the book and using that hashtag, and saying how much they love the book, and how much it's helped them.

Fran Hauser:
So I think in terms of what I'm thinking about next, it's really how do I take all of this great content that's in the book, and what else can I do with that content? So I'm just starting to think about some product extensions from the book, which is really exciting, and then still doing my day job, which is investing and advising, which is something that I've put on pause a little bit over the last few months as I've been working on the book tour. So I'm really excited to get back into that as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Well, I want to make sure everyone can, first of all get the book if they haven't gotten it yet, but more importantly, also know where to find you and follow to get updates on all of these different projects.

Fran Hauser:
Yes, definitely. So my website is FranHauser, H-A-U-S-E-R, .com, and you can get all the information about the book and where to buy the book there. My Instagram and Twitter handle is the same, it's Fran_Hauser, and of course you can always connect with me on Linkedin as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Fran. I love the book, and if there's anyone out there who hasn't read it yet, please pick it up, it's wonderful, well worth investing the time. Thank you Fran.

Fran Hauser:
Thank you Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, so Fran and I really just scratched the surface in that interview, here's a little bit more wisdom from her book. Financial Grownup tip number one; one thing that Fran talks about in The Myth of the Nice Girl is the importance of how things are presented, the tone that you use in your voice. So you can be firm, and not be a pushover, and still be nice. Think about the way that you say things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two; don't say sorry so much. Try replacing it with "Thank you." Fran points out that many women apologize of things that not only were not their fault, but also they aren't really sorry about. For example, not being able to attend an event. She would often apologize for declining an invitation, instead, she advises to simply say, "Thank you for the invitation." And say that you will not be able to attend.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you have not already, please hit that subscribe button and be in touch on Twitter, @BobbiRebell, on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook I am @BobbiRebell. And learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. And thank you to the wonderful Fran Hauser for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Writer Paulette Perhach, known for her F*** Off Fund articles and website, has been featured in Cosmo and Glamour, but collecting cash from her writing clients was killing her ability to be a financial grownup. Paulette also shares her secret to free stuff- and previews her upcoming book “Welcome to the Writer’s Life, our August 15.. 

In Paulette’s money story you will learn:

-Why Paulette struggles with accepting whether or not she is a financial grownup

-How Paulette became famous, but without the financial rewards following that fame

-The job Paulette had that taught the her most about sales and marketing

-What Paulette did on the day she realized she needed to make some cash- fast

-How Paulette keeps her expenses in check to allow her to pursue her writing career

-Why collecting pay, in a timely manner, is just as important as getting hired

-How Paulette adjusted her pitch to focus less on her needs, and more on her customer needs

-The strategy Paulette used to leverage the contacts she made on one day, into future long term and consistent clients

-The psychological technique Paulette uses when she feels discouraged

In Paulette’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of keeping expenses low when income is unpredictable- and specific strategies to do that.

-How and why pay does not line up with work, and how you can manage cash flow challenges

In Paulette’s money tip you will learn

-How she gets things for free!

-The specific items and services she has received that were given to her and why, along with how she contributes to her community

-Where you can find Buy Nothing groups

-About Paulette’s new book “Welcome to the Writers Life”

-Paulette’s advice: If you are in the arts, you are also in sales

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of keeping overhead low when starting a business, and maintaining cost controls

-How to integrate money making ideas into things you already do and enjoy

Episode Links

Paulette' website: Fuckofffund.com

Follow Paulette- and her bank balances!

Twitter: @PaulettePerhach

Instagram: @PaulettePerhach

Hire Paulette as a writing consultant and much more!! https://hugohouse.org/store/consultant/paulette-perhach/

Pre-order Paulette’s book “Welcome to the Writers Life” !

If you want to be considered for an upcoming listener episode- email us your money story, money lesson and money tip to info@financialgrownup.com

If you want to win a free custom video promo- share and retweet the promos when you see them - and make sure to tag @bobbirebell

---

Transcription

Paulette Perhac:
It's never been too good to hustle. Some days, you got to hustle and yeah, I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of, How to be a Financial Grownup, but you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this. Hey friends, before we get to our awesome guest, Paulette Perhac known for what she calls in our friendly universe, the Foe fund.

Bobbi Rebell:
It'll make sense, trust me. I just want to welcome all of our new listeners to the podcast and also welcome back our regular listeners. We keep your episodes short to fit your schedule, but also to be flexible. So you can binge and hear a few great stories when you have a little more time in your day. If you are enjoying the show, please take a moment to tell a friend about it. Share it on social media, we want to get your help growing the community and we really appreciate it by the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Paulette, as you will hear, I joke with Paulette Perhac that she's not quite a financial grownup, but really are we ever? It's a process and for Paulette, the process has been painful at times. She has received a ton of acclaim for her writing and even has been able to raise her rates a bit, but collecting the cash, that has kept her on the financial edge and forced her to get creative. You're going to like this one. Here is Paulette Perhac. Hey Paulette Perhac you're a financial grownup or at least getting there. Welcome to the podcast.

Paulette Perhac:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we're getting it a little bit giggly, which will make a lot of sense in just a minute when Paulette tells her story. But you are an emerging major writer. You've had pieces all over the place including the piece that got you really famous called the F off Fund and we're going to keep it clean here so no worry. If you are in the car listening with your kids, but Paulette, before we get to your money story, tell us a little bit about this article that sort of blasted you into the universe.

Paulette Perhac:
So we call it in my family around my nephew the fore fund, so-

Bobbi Rebell:
The Fore fund, I like that.

Paulette Perhac:
As I was coming into my 30s and got a great job at a tech company and had for the first time a few thousand in the bank that didn't have a name on it. I was thinking back to some memories that I had of times that I was desperate for a job or couldn't move out because I just couldn't afford to. I realized, "Oh, it would've been so nice if I had, had this money in that bank account." And you don't really think about because humans have this optimism bias.

Paulette Perhac:
If you don't think bad situations you're going to get in. So, I really described a situation in which you do the normal thing. Where you're living paycheck to paycheck and then getting bad situations or if you decide to be someone who can have a fore fund in case you need it and what that would look like. So I described those two scenarios in the fore fund article. I thought it was just another essay and then it blew up and it went all around the world and just this month, both Cosmo and Glamour mentioned it. Two years later, which is crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great, and now that's becoming a whole business, which we're going to circle back to. But I want to hear the money story that you're ready to share with us, and it's so apropos because just moments ago what crosses on my Instagram, but a snapshot of your bank account, which despite all of the success with your fore fund writing and the business that is emerging from that article, which is unbelievable, that this is all happening to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes massive career success and prominence does not always connect to money. So, you found yourself one day with how much money in your bank account would you say?

Paulette Perhac:
So I had about $900 and my rent on my tiny place in Seattle was about to come through at 795.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, because we were just joking about this, your apartment is how big.

Paulette Perhac:
It's 150 square feet.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Just saying not like you're living so large.

Paulette Perhac:
Not living so large. So I was like, "What do I do?" And I had just been feeling like I'm living large because you and I were in the Catskills in New York. I'm going to these parties with like Aaron Lowery and meeting with my editor at the New York Times and having breakfast with another reporter at the New York Times.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just like big media people, big stuff that's happening.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, big stuff is happening. Having meetings with people who are on the Forbes Top 100 most powerful women list. Awesome, right? And we're in talks about future projects, et cetera. So, it's like everything's coming together. Then I landed home and I'm like, I have $100. I don't have any work lined up. I just posted yesterday on Instagram a timeline of something I'm about to get paid for. I pitched that story on February 12th. So that shows you how long it takes to get from pitch to payment?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Paulette Perhac:
And so I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I'm in trouble. What am I going to do?"

Bobbi Rebell:
You need cash immediately.

Paulette Perhac:
I need cash. Yeah. So the panic starts to rise up, right? And I've really realized this year that the panic is not helping you and so you just have to calm down whenever you feel those feelings. I'm like, what will help you feel more powerful? I'm like, you need like an adult lemonade stand, and I just decided a lemonade stand-

Bobbi Rebell:
And by lemonade stand, what do you mean?

Paulette Perhac:
I mean like a personal mini business from which you feel fairly confident you could make some money in the next 24 hours and that's marketing, execution and billing. So, I took the last of my business cards and I printed up a label for the back. Mother's Day was that Sunday, so I'm like, Mother's Day, I'm hustling. So I printed up labels that said mother's Day photos, like quick and easy or quick and fun. Mother's Day photos, 15 minutes, 20 bucks.

Paulette Perhac:
And I took my camera. I looked at like, what are my assets, right? I have a car, I could drive around, I can't do uber, it's from 1996. So I could deliver food.

Bobbi Rebell:
Uber has standards.

Paulette Perhac:
Uber has standards, I do not. A to B, that's my standard. So I looked at my other asset, which is this really nice camera that I bought as an investment in my writing, in travel writing business. So I just went around and hustled all day, Mother's Day. I think I walked six miles. I ran out of business cards, but I-

Bobbi Rebell:
What was your pitch? Tell us your pitch.

Paulette Perhac:
My pitch. I started by being like, "Hi, I'm a local writer and a photographer," and people were just like, "ugh." So, I realize I'm talking about myself. Nope, so it evolves over the day to focus on the customer and I just said, "Hi, happy mother's Day," because no one's like, "Go away if you say Happy Mother's Day." I said, "Happy Mother's day, if you guys want a nice photo, I'm doing $20 portraits today." So it was a really fun day overall.

Paulette Perhac:
I felt empowered. I felt like I was taking control and then I got some follow up clients actually, I'm rewriting one of the groups of women. One of them was from San Francisco. She's a realtor from San Francisco. We got to talking. They were great, I gave them a little bit of extra time just because it was fun, and she is hiring me to rewrite her bio for 300 bucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so awesome. That's so awesome. Wait, so how much did you make that day and how much did you make from that day going forward?

Paulette Perhac:
So my supplies were 12, and then I had to get more cards printed, which was like 33. So I was like, "Oh my gosh." So after taking those out, I only made $85 that day, which is not a ton, it's not nothing. What I realized was that I now have given my card out to a bunch of people who know I'm a photographer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Paulette Perhac:
One woman was pregnant, she asked me if I do maternity photos, and then next time what I'll do is just have an A frame sign and stay in one place. Because I think that, that will be more successful, less hustling work for me. I laid down at the end of that day in the park after giving out all my cards, and I was just pooped. I felt really good. I felt like the best kind of exhausted.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you did something.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, I did something.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did something, like you had a problem, and you did something proactive to solve it instead of just kind of living in your panic about money.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, and I think self-pity is really dangerous, especially if you work in the arts, because you have to remember like I chose this life, what am I going to do about it? Sitting there and just being like, "Wheh, I don't get paid on time. Wheh, it's hard to be a writer." Not saying I never sit there, but when I'm in that space I realize that it's dangerous.

Bobbi Rebell:
Talk about the lessons that you would share with our listeners. What's the takeaway here?

Paulette Perhac:
So I think the takeaway is knowing that you don't owe a whole lot. So for me low overhead is really important. You know, it's just nice to know that my rent including utilities, is 795, I almost never feel like, "Oh I can't pay that." I also have a book coming out in August, so that's a lot of unpaid marketing work for the book.

Paulette Perhac:
So I think having that plan, like knowing like what would I do today if I needed money and just knowing, so like for example, I'm going to go to a music festival over Memorial Day and I'm going to do it again, taking music festival portraits there. I'm really excited about that, and I think it's going to get better and better, and I'm going to make more and more every time I need to do that.

Paulette Perhac:
And I think eventually I won't need to do it anymore, but it's never been too good to hustle too. Some days you got to hustle, and yeah I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Paulette, tell us about your money tip.

Paulette Perhac:
So my favorite secret money tip is to join a buy nothing group, which are these groups that are popping up that kind of celebrate trading, and giving and, just offering if you have anything. And so I just got a Le Creuset casserole dish on it yesterday. I got a vacuum last week, and then when I moved into my tiny place, and I had a ton of stuff to give away, I gave away a bunch of stuff. I just got a haircut this morning on the buy nothing group at a place that usually probably costs 100 bucks for a haircut.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, how do they make sure that people don't come on and just take, take, take.

Paulette Perhac:
You could just take, take, take. I haven't seen that problem yet. You know, I think people are willing to give. It's things that they would be giving away anyway, but I have found that the more that I get from it, the more I want to give. And people have offered financial advice, people have offered instruments, and it's just kind of this nice community, especially if you live in a big city, it's a very small area. So now I kind of know my neighbors more.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how do you find these groups?

Paulette Perhac:
So I would google buy nothing, mine is the Facebook group.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there criteria to get in, or they just let anyone in? How is it? It sounds too good to be true.

Paulette Perhac:
I know, right? Well, I think the thing is I've been in both situations where the things that people have given me have helped me so much to get new furniture or whatever. And so then once I got from the group giving was a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're also so much part of the writer's community. You spend so much of your time and energy giving back to other writers and supporting writers. Tell us about your book that's coming out soon. It's happening.

Paulette Perhac:
So on August 15th, my book, Welcome to the Writer's life is coming out, which is everything I've learned about the writing business, the writing craft and the writing life from being in a writing community. So it's a very crowd sourced book and very much wanting to give back what I've gained from living in a creative community. And it's like freshman orientation for new writers, and a lot of people have benefited from it even if they do business writing or side writing. You don't have to be a full time writer, you just have to want to get joy out of the act of writing.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what have you learned in your years about the business of writing? In other words, you talk about how hard it is to get paid.

Paulette Perhac:
I think if you're in the arts, you are also in sales, which we don't want to say out loud, but you have your leads, you have to bring your value prop, like you have to sell your stuff, and consider yourself a business. I wish that I had said I'm starting a freelance business, rather than I'm going freelance because that's what it is. So you're not ready for operations and marketing and sales and you just get sledge hammered by the reality of like, "Oh I got to go sell today," which is like what you have to do.

Paulette Perhac:
So I've been in it like two years full-time, and I'm just now like, I have a whole share point for my writing business. I'm getting serious because I don't want to fail.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Miss Paulette, how can people find you and follow you and hire you most importantly?

Paulette Perhac:
Yes so send money to ... No. I'm on Twitter @Pauletteperhac. My website is fuckofffund spelled out, .com, so fuckofffund.com, and I'm on Instagram @PauletteJperhac where you can see my bank balances. Just google me and you'll find me, and I have a lot of different projects. Mostly I want to bring people who want to live creative lives. I want to help them make the creative life happen while I figure it out. That's really the thing is like I'm someone who's traditionally bad with money.

Paulette Perhac:
I'm getting better with money and want to live that creative life. I love my life. I love my day to day that this is my life and I want to make it work. So I want to help other people do it too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we love watching your star rise, so thank you so much.

Paulette Perhac:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
There is so much we can all learn from Paulette. I hope you enjoyed that interview. Financial Grownup tip number one. When you are running a business or just the business of your life, keep your overhead low. Paulette lives in a very expensive city, but she makes it work by keeping those costs down and living anything but large. Her apartment, as she mentioned, is a 150 square feet. That's a closet to some people, some very fortunate people, but still some people.

Bobbi Rebell:
She also literally does not pay for things. She's in a buy nothing group. So maybe find a buy nothing group near you. What a great tip. Financial Grownup tip number two, integrate your hustle into things you're already doing. Paulette loves to go to concerts and festivals, so she brings her camera and her business cards and you know what? She makes money even while living her life. Thanks Paulette. We have our first listener episode coming up very soon in the month of June.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us at info@financialgrownup and tell us what the story is and what your everyday money tip would be if you were to be chosen. Thank you for being part of our Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating or review. And of course hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Follow me on Twitter @Bobbirebell, on Instagram @Bobbirebell1, and by the way, thanks for the great feedback on our promo videos. If you would like one for you or for your business, share the video when you see them. We'll be making one for whoever shares the most between now and July, 1st. You could even see them by the way, on our new YouTube channel. Just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, and you will find it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, soon after we taped Paulette's interview, she did finally get paid by her client, so a happy ending there. A quick reminder, Paulette's book, Welcome to the Writer's Life is available for pre order, so go get it. I think it's safe to say her story successfully brought us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.