Carol Roth:
Tom Corley grew up in financial turmoil but after studying the wealthy was able to copy their habits and make his money dreams into a reality.
In Tom’s money story you will learn:
-How Tom’s childhood money disappointments created poor money habits in his early adulthood
-The specific things Tom’s parents did that created financial instability for Tom and his siblings
-Why his graduation party was cancelled because of his parents’ financial troubles
-How he was unable buy a car and to rent an apartment as a young adult again, because of his parents financial needs
-The emotional component of his financial challenges early in his life
-How a client inspired him to do the research that became “Rich Habits"
In Tom’s money lesson you will learn:
-The impact of your parents money habits on your own money habits
-The importance of avoiding “want spending" driven by envy
-How you can change those habits
-Why changing only two or three habits can change your life
-Tom’s habit that he does every day on his way to work to re-inforce gratitude
In Tom’s every day money tip
-Why successful people keep track of other people’s birthdays
-How calling them on their birthday makes a meaningful impact
-Why to avoid the birthday wish on social media
-The connection between the Happy Birthday habit and why it will help you prosper through genuine friendships
In My Take you will learn:
-How to move past parents who have poor money habits
-The advice Tony Robbins offers to people who get a rough start in life, as he did
-How my new friend Ramit Sethi uses birthdays as a way to connect with friends and get "Birthday Wisdom"
Episode Links:
Tom’s website: www.richhabits.net
Follow Tom!
Twitter: @RichHabits
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/thomas.c.corley.3
Learn more about Rich Neighbor, Poor Neighbor
Get Tom’s books including "Rich Habits, Poor Habits" and "Change Your Habits, Change Your Life” and “Rich Kids"
Tom is also writing a book called “The Other Side of Cancer”. Learn more about the Ashely Lauren Foundation which helps families struggling with pediatric cancer.
Also mentioned in the episode:
Tony Robbins
David Bach
Ramit Sethi
More about Tom Corley:
CBS Nightly News Interview: http://richhabits.net/cbs-news-rich-habits-interview-with-lisa-hughes/
Dave Ramsey Interview:http://richhabits.net/dave-ramsey-rich-habits-tom-corley/
SUCCESS Magazine Interviews: http://shar.es/1HKwDe http://shar.es/1HK95w
USA Today Article: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2015/02/22/credit-dotcom-credit-card-habits/23545023/
Tom Corley is an internationally recognized authority on habits and wealth creation.
Tom has spoken alongside Richard Branson, Robin Sharma, Dr. Daniel Amen and many other notable speakers.
In Tom’s five-year study of the rich and poor he identified over 300 daily habits that separated the “haves” from the “have nots.” Tom is s bestselling author and award winning author. His books include: Rich Habits, Rich Kids and Change Your Habits Change Your Life and Rich Habits Poor Habits.
Tom has appeared on or in CBS Evening News, The Dave Ramsey Show, CNN, MSN Money, USA Today, the Huffington Post, Marketplace Money SUCCESS Magazine, Inc. Magazine, Money Magazine, Kiplinger’s Personal Finance Magazine, Fast Company Magazine, Epoca Magazine (Brazil’s largest weekly) and thousands of other media outlets in the U.S. and 25 other countries. Tom is a frequent contributor to Business Insider, CNBC, SUCCESS Magazine and Credit.com.
Tom is also a CPA, CFP and holds a Master’s Degree in Taxation and heads a top financial firm in New Jersey
Transcription
Tom Corley:
I told all my friends that I'm having a graduation party, I told them the date, and a couple of weeks before the party date I just let my mother know, and she said, "We can't have a party, we don't have any money." I said, "Yeah, I know, I saved $200." That night my father came into my room and he said, "You know what, I hate to do this to you, but we need the money."
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my faith on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends, if you feel a big knot in your stomach from that clip you just heard from our guest today, I'm right there with you, this was a tough one. But it's also an important story, so I hope you stick with us. Welcome, everyone. As our regular listeners know, while we try to keep the mood light, we also get real here on the Financial Grownup podcast, and we listen and we learn from others' experiences. So my guests are brave and they reveal very personal financial stories sometimes, in the hopes that it will make your lives better, our lives better.
Bobbi Rebell:
Tom Corley is the author of a number of bestselling books including Rich Habits, and it was inspired by his devastating childhood experiences, but also how you can change your habits and have financial freedom. This really goes to the heart of what we try to do here. Here is Tom Corley.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Tom Corley, you are our financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Tom Corley:
Hi, Bobbi, thanks for having me on, I appreciate it.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so excited to have you because you are the author of Rich Habits, and we all need to develop rich habits for sure.
Tom Corley:
Yeah, I spent five years doing research on the daily habits of rich people and poor people, gathered three hundred and forty something data points, and decided to incorporate some of them, the most important keystone habits, into my book Rich Habits, which has become very popular around the world.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're being very modest, it's been a huge bestseller, and you've been on everything from Dave Ramsey to the CBS Evening News, literally you've been all over the place, and I know that the book has helped so many people, so thank you for that. Also I'm going to thank you in advance for sharing what's a very sensitive money story having to do with your upbringing and the poor habits that you learned from your father. Tell us more.
Tom Corley:
Yeah, so I actually have two stories that I'll try and be as concise as possible. So you know, we were rich and then we were poor. My father's business went under when I was aged nine, it's a complicated story, but it was really random bad luck. Anyway, from the age of nine until, I guess, I left the house, we were poor.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you had a big household, by the way.
Tom Corley:
We had 11 in our family, so we were constantly worried. Our home was in foreclosure, as least as far as I can remember, four times. So we were worried about being homeless. I remember I used to shovel snow and mow lawns, and I spent the whole year doing that, saved money, saved $200, because in the 8th grade I wanted to have a graduation party. I told all my friends who I wanted to come that I'm having a graduation party. I told them the date. A couple of weeks before the party date, I just my mother know, just to make sure it was okay, and she said, "We can't have a party, we don't have any money." I said, "Yeah, I know. I saved $200." Well, that night my father came into my room and he said, "You know what, I hate to do this to you, but we need the money, because I have bills that I have to pay or they'll shut off my electricity, our phones, or whatever." So I handed him the money.
Tom Corley:
The second story was when I was 23 and I had just been working for about a year. I was still living at home, but I was trying to get ready to leave home. So I saved about $5,000, I wanted to buy a car, and use whatever was left to put down on a rental, an apartment somewhere. Somebody in my family found out about it, and my father approached me a couple of days later and said, "You know, we need that $5,000 to pay our real estate taxes. They're in the process of foreclosing on our house again." So I had to give up that $5,000.
Tom Corley:
So what I learned from those two experiences, which were very emotional experiences to me, was, don't save, if you save, somebody will take it. I was young when I learned those lessons, so they stayed with me in my adult life. And it wasn't until really I did my Rich Habits research that I realized I had this horrific poor habit of not saving, and it was emotion based, which most habits are.
Bobbi Rebell:
What even started the idea of doing Rich Habits research?
Tom Corley:
When I took over my CPA firm here from my predecessor, I had a small business client in the auto body business, he had inherited the business from his father and over the course of 20 years he found himself with cashflow issues. He asked me, "What are your successful clients doing that I'm not doing?" Then he started crying because he couldn't make payroll that week, and basically he was going out of business.
Tom Corley:
So I started doing research, I couldn't find anything other than The Millionaire Next Door, that didn't help me really, it wasn't specific enough. So I said, "You know what? I'm going to do my own research." I interviewed 361 rich people and poor people, find out what the rich do and what the poor do, and I didn't know I was doing a habit study, I just was trying to uncover the truth, why are some people rich and why are some people poor? What I wanted to do, Bobbi, was find out what they did from the minute they put their feet on the floor in the morning to the minute they put their head on the pillow at night. So that's kind of what started me on that research.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did you talk to your dad about this at all?
Tom Corley:
No. My dad passed away in 2013, and he was always one of my biggest cheerleaders, but we never really saw eye to eye on a lot of things. I did everything a good son is supposed to do to help my father, and he loved me, you know, we just didn't have that kind of relationship.
Bobbi Rebell:
You never talked to him about your feelings when the money was taken from you after saving it?
Tom Corley:
No. I couldn't do that to him. I know, he was older, why burden him with that? I just felt, this is something that I don't ever want him to know about.
Bobbi Rebell:
For our listeners, what is the takeaway from your story?
Tom Corley:
Well, the takeaway is this: I was able to turn things around, thanks to my Rich Habits research, I started saving, started putting money into my 401(k), and other things. Whether you are aware of it or not, you have certain good habits and bad habits, I call them rich habits and poor habits, that are the result of your upbringing. They primarily are from your parents. So if you are, like I was, not saving any money, and maybe have debt, credit card debt, there's a very good likelihood that that has something to do with your upbringing, and some habits that you forged in your childhood that stayed with you in your adult life. The good news is that I'm evidence you can change your habits, and not only am I evidence, I have 177 self-made millionaires that are proof that once you change your habits, you change your life.
Tom Corley:
So there's light at the end of the tunnel here for anyone, doesn't matter if you're poor or stuck in the middle class. You can change your habits, and it only takes two or three habits to change your life.
Bobbi Rebell:
So give us some habits.
Tom Corley:
So many people struggle with savings, right? If you really peel that onion, what's the reason why they just can't save? In many cases, especially in America, it's the keeping up with the Jones's mindset, it's, my friend bought a BMW, or leased a BMW, my other friend, or someone I know, or colleague just got a really nice house. So you supersize your life. I call it want spending. What drives want spending is envy. Envy is a negative emotion. What shuts down the want spending is turning the fuel off for your want spending, which is turning off your envy. How do you do that? You shift your mindset from negative to positive by, instead of being envious, be grateful for what you have.
Tom Corley:
What I do every day, every morning on my commute to work, is, I sit in my car as I'm driving and I say, "What are three things that went right yesterday with my life, that I'm grateful for?" I spend about 10 minutes thinking about it and going over it. It's an amazing thing, Bobbi, but it completely makes you positive. Gratitude is the gateway to positivity, it's a domino effect. So it's not just, "Oh, all of a sudden I have this gratitude, positive mental outlook." You have a completely changed mental outlook, everything, you start seeing the glass half full, you start seeing the good in life, the good in people. It's amazing when you start treating people as valuable instead of finding the flaws and the faults in them, they respond, and next thing you know you've got these powerful relationships with people that you didn't have before, all because of a shift in your mindset.
Bobbi Rebell:
Tom, for your everyday money tip, I think you're going to win the most original, and should I just wish you a happy birthday even though I don't even know when your birthday is, but I just want to say happy birthday.
Tom Corley:
Thank you, Bobbi, I appreciate that. It wasn't long ago, June 12th. The happy birthday call was one of the things that I uncovered that the self-made millionaires did. All you do is just call people, you don't tweet them, you don't Facebook them, no social media interaction here, you're calling them on the phone, just to wish them a happy birthday. The amazing thing is, when you call somebody on their birthday, guess what, you're going to probably be one of three or four phone calls that they receive. Here's the really cool thing, Bobbi, I found, because I've been tracking this since I uncovered it in 2007, 25% of the people that you call on your birthday will reciprocate, so it's called the reciprocal happy birthday call, that really takes your relationship off life support, takes it to another level.
Bobbi Rebell:
And especially, you mentioned, not social media and that kind of thing, taking it in a different medium really differentiates you.
Tom Corley:
Yeah, look, you want to stand out. If you're going to just be saying "happy birthday" on Facebook, you don't stand out, because the herd is doing that. You want to step outside the herd. What do people outside the herd do? They make happy birthday calls. It's going to emotionalize your relationship. Why is that important to making money? Because the people that really help you open doors, they might be on board of directors with you on nonprofits, they might be other successful people, well, these are the people you want to be making the happy birthday calls to, they're going to remember you, it's going to improve your relationship, strengthen it, and now you're going to start to develop friendships with these people.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Tell us more about what you're up to this summer and into fall, and where people can learn more about you, Tom.
Tom Corley:
Sure. So I've got a book, Rich Neighbor, Poor Neighbor, that I'm just about wrapping up. I'm going to be traveling to Vietnam for a couple of speaking engagements. I'm also going to start work on a book called The Other Side of Cancer. So I've got a few things in the pipeline this summer.
Bobbi Rebell:
What prompted that, Tom?
Tom Corley:
I'm the president of The Ashley Lauren Foundation. We help families who are struggling with pediatric cancer. So if you found out your child had cancer, we step in to help you financially, emotionally, all different sorts of things. We've bailed people out where they were almost homeless because cancer costs money to fight that fight. We've kept people in their homes just by paying their mortgage and paying their rent. So growing up poor, that means a lot to me, because we didn't really have anybody to help us, so I'm going to write a book and proceeds are going to go to The Ashley Lauren Foundation, and it's going to be an upbeat book about how some of the kids who survived cancer went on to become doctors, lawyers, and other things.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, well keep us posted on that, and I'll make sure to have you send me some links that we can put in the show notes, and people can learn more about it. Thank you so much, Tom.
Tom Corley:
Thank you, Bobbi, I appreciate it.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, can't thank Tom enough for sharing such a candid and raw story. I truly hope none of you have had to go through that kind of, not just financial devastation, but the toll that it takes on the relationship with your parents and how you view them and how you relate to them.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: as much as our parents set the foundation for our financial perspectives, if you get a bad deal, like Tom, you can move past it. In addition to Tom's books, there are other resources to check out. As our regulars know, I'm a big fan, for example, of Tony Robbins, who was kind enough to support my book, How To Be a Financial Grownup, by contributing the foreword. Tony is a big believer in owning your own situation. Whatever happened in the past with your parents, in your childhood, whatever, look forward, you're an adult, be a financial grownup, and move past anything your parents may have done that you feel hurt you financially. Almost all our parents are well intentioned and really do try their best. Maybe try to teach them what you learn places like here, and from Tom Horley or from Tony Robbins.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: let's talk about those birthday wishes. I recently met Ramit Sethi at a dinner party that he co-hosted with my friend, David [Bock 00:13:50], Episode 1, by the way, guys, if you want to go back. You guys may know Ramit as the author of the book, I Can Teach You To Be Rich. So I follow him now on social media. It was recently Ramit's birthday, and he said that when his friends have birthdays he reaches out, and he asks them to share birthday wisdom with him. So maybe that's something that we can all do when we reach out and call them, as Tom suggested.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for joining us. This was an emotional one, but that's okay, it was also honest. If you have not, please hit that subscribe button, and follow us on social media, on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and on Instagram @BobbiRebell1. Thanks to Tom Corley for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
Andy Hill was so in love with his then future wife that he literally used his student loan money to buy her the ring she wanted- and oops did not tell her. He shares what happened when she did find out, and what he would do differently now that he is a financial grownup. Bonus: His tips on how to start a 529 account for your kids.
In Andy’s money story you will learn:
-The big mistake Andy made with his student loan
-The emotional backdrop to that mistake
-Why Andy did not talk to his girlfriend (now wife) about the decision
-His biggest regrets and what he would do differently
In Andy’s money lesson you will learn:
-The options Andy wish he had considered
-His advice on the best ways to communicate about money in a relationship
In Andy’s everyday money tip you will learn:
-HIs take on 529 plans and how he did his research
-The factors to consider in choosing a 529 plan
-Why Andy chose his plan for his children’s college savings
In my take you will learn:
-How to plan for expenses related to life events, like getting married!
-The cost of not just engagement rings, but weddings as well
-Recent changes to how 529 plans can be used
-Resources to get more information about 529 plans
Episode Links
Andy’s website:
Marriagekidsandmoney.com
Get Andy’s e-book : Young family wealth playbook
Listen to Andy’s podcast!
Follow Andy!!
Twitter @andyhillmkm
Instagram: @AndyHill 827
Facebook @andyhillMKM
Learn more about 529’s:
Link to the SEC website:
https://www.sec.gov/reportspubs/investor-publications/investorpubsintro529htm.html
Link to the FINRA website Saving for College
http://www.finra.org/investors/saving-college
College Savings Plans Network
http://www.collegesavings.org/
SAVING FOR COLLEGE
https://www.savingforcollege.com/intro-to-529s/what-is-a-529-plan
Transcription
Andy Hill:
I took advantage of these student loans that I was using for my MBA program at the time, and just took a little bit extra from my student loans in order to pay for my wife's engagement ring. That's kind of how I started off my marriage with a little bit of debt, also with a little bit of love, as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, they say love is blind. That was certainly true for our guest today. Before we get to him, quick welcome to everyone, especially our new folks, we keep the episodes, just so you know, to around 15 minutes. You can fit it easily into your busy schedule while you're running errands and so on.
Bobbi Rebell:
A lot of regulars, though, say they enjoy listening to a few at a time, especially if they are commuting. The idea, do what works for you. You get to hear an inspiring, and hopefully entertaining money story, and then get some specific advice, money tips, things that you could do right away.
Bobbi Rebell:
Today's story is definitely entertaining, heartwarming, but you also might get that sinking feeling in your stomach, like, "Oh, no! He did not!" We've all been there, so into our loved ones that we just want to get them exactly what they want. Budgets, whatever, we find the money, even if we find it in our student loans? Yes, I'm talking to you, Andy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's roll the interview.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Andy Hill, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Andy Hill:
Thanks so much for having me, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the success of your podcast, marriage, kids, and money. Nominated for the most important podcast awards that there are, the 2017 Plutus Awards. You were nominated for best new personal finance podcast, so congratulations!
Andy Hill:
Thank you so much, yeah. It was a great honor, and look forward to keep on bringing exciting material for all those people out there who are married with kids that love talking about money, or just want to give their families a better opportunity in the future.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I am a hopeless romantic, in addition to focusing on money, and you brought with you a money story that is both romantic and financial, having to do with your engagement. Tell us what happened.
Andy Hill:
Yeah, so back in, oh, this is maybe in my mid-twenties, I met an incredible girl named Nicole and fell in love with her. When you fall in love and you start to see the opportunity for marriage coming up, the first you think of, as a guy is, "Man, I got to get this ring thing going."
Andy Hill:
Me, not making that much money at the time, was probably making $35,000 a year, I said, "Well, I better start saving a little bit of money to make this thing happen." Unfortunately, since we were dating long distance from California to Michigan, my bank account was a little light, we'll say, but my love for her was continuing to grow. I know I had to take advantage of this moment and go for this engagement.
Andy Hill:
We looked at rings together at the store, and we found the ring that she liked, with the type of the style, I found out it was about $5,000.
Bobbi Rebell:
Ouch!
Andy Hill:
Yeah. That was about $4,500 more than I had.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Andy Hill:
I decided to go for it anyway because I was in love, and I wanted to move this thing forward. The way that I went about it was I took advantage of these student loans that I was using for my MBA program at the time, and just took a little bit extra from my student loans in order to pay for my wife's engagement ring. That's kind of how I started off my marriage with a little bit of debt, also with a little bit of love, as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness. That is such a big no-no though. Let me just ask you, taking it back a little, did it occur to you to either wait and save up more, or maybe downsize the ring a little bit, or find ... I don't know if that was maybe the best interest rate you could get on student loans versus taking out a different kind of loan. It's certainly better than a credit card, we know that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Any other considerations at the time?
Andy Hill:
Oh yeah, Bobbi. All these things I could've done better. Could've gotten a better opportunity to get a lower interest rate than ... I think it was 6.8% that I was paying for my student loans. I could've maybe spoken to my wife ... my future wife about it a little bit about the- [inaudible 00:04:43][crosstalk 00:04:43]
Bobbi Rebell:
So, she didn't know about this, she did not know that you went into debt to get her ring.
Andy Hill:
Nope.
Bobbi Rebell:
What would she have said if she knew?
Andy Hill:
I believe that she would've said, "That's not a good idea. We can either wait, or we can look at something that's a little bit more feasible for your actual budget."
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, but you did not talk to her, so that's also a lesson. Just to point out. That's one of the things you talk about a lot on your podcast, is the communication aspect.
Andy Hill:
Absolutely. I preach about it all day long, but did I do it back in my mid-twenties? No. I did not. Definitely having communication with your spouse, or your future spouse is an incredible way to start the marriage, and I definitely did not do that.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you can get into the mind of 27-year-old Andy, what were you thinking at the time?
Andy Hill:
What I was thinking was, "I'm in love, and I want to make this thing happen as soon as possible. She's shown me the type of ring that she wants, and I want to make her happy." Unfortunately, I didn't think about any of the other consequences that went along with that: the interest rate, not speaking to my future wife about something that's super important. That could've been a really pivotal moment for us, actually, to speak about something that important, and I passed it up, for sure.
Bobbi Rebell:
When did she find out? Assuming it's not now, listening to this podcast? When did she find out when you had done that?
Andy Hill:
She found out about the debt that I had, as well as the ring situation a little after we got married when-
Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. The debt you had in addition to the ring. What was the other debt you had? You had $4,500 from the ring, and then what else?
Andy Hill:
It was all these student loans that I had, it was about $40,000 of student loans total, as well as a home equity line of credit, which probably equated to another $10,000, so about $50,000.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, go on.
Andy Hill:
Yeah, yeah, so we got married, and then with that comes the merging of the finances, right? As we were merging finances we started to have the conversations then about what my debt situation was, and what her debt situation was, and then it became our problem, and something that we worked on together, but she didn't realize until then, "Oh, so I'm now paying off the ring that you bought for me."
Bobbi Rebell:
"I'm paying off my own engagement ring. Thank you very much."
Andy Hill:
How romantic, right?
Bobbi Rebell:
That's so romantic. No. No, no, no, no. Quickly tell us how did it resolve? How did you pay all that off?
Andy Hill:
Well, yeah, so we got together and we made a plan to pay it off. We started to talk about potentially having kids in the future, and we said, "Hey, well, let's work together and pay this off." Combined we were making a little bit over six figures in a salary. We said, "All right, let's live on half, and pay this off as fast as possible," and we were able to clobber it in about 12 months.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from that now that you're a wise, wise old man in your thirties?
Andy Hill:
Yeah, I would say communication as early as possible in your relationship, especially when it comes to money is so important. The opportunity that I did not take advantage of was to speak to my future wife about, "Hey, this ring that you want, I love it, you love it, it would make you feel great, but I just don't have the money right now in order to make this happen. We can either delay our marriage in order to get the ring, or we can look at something that's a little bit more feasible."
Andy Hill:
That would've been a very good financial grownup conversation to have with her at that point in our marriage, for sure. Communication and just working on things as a married couple before you're even married shows the true partnership before you get into it.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love the money tip that you're going to share, because we kind of moved things forward now to the mindset of being parents, which you now are. You have two children, ages six and four. That means time to think about college and getting ready. It's never too early. Tell us your money tip.
Andy Hill:
Absolutely. When we got married we decided to have children, and one of the things as we started to get our financial grownup selves together was, "Hey, if we're gonna be helping our kids get through college we got to start saving now."
Andy Hill:
We started researching 529 programs, and the cool thing about 529 programs is that you don't have to take advantage of the one that's specifically in your state. There are other programs that maybe have lower fees to consider. We did a broad research of all the programs that were available to us in the U.S.
Andy Hill:
We ended up going with our state, because it had good fees, or lower fees, through TIAA-CREF, and actually, there was a great state income tax break, as well, that helps us save a little bit of money each year as we donate into ... as we contribute into our kids' college fund.
Andy Hill:
I guess my tip would be, take a look at all the opportunities that you have to save for your kids through a 529 program, start as early as possible, but definitely take a look at the fees that are associated with it, because some of the programs might have higher fees, and they might not even be in your state.
Andy Hill:
Taking a look at that, as well as getting an understanding of the tax advantages of utilizing a 529 with your state. It's a great way to save, and it's a great way to prepare for the future college costs that we're all looking for as parents.
Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely, and I also want to just ask you quickly before we wrap up about your E-book.
Andy Hill:
Yes, have a E-book on my site called The Young Family Wealth Playbook. It is an amalgamation of all these interviews that I've done on my podcast from the 50+ self-made millionaires, financial independent rock stars, and personal finance experts, and I've taken all that information that will help individuals who are reading it to look at what they can do, all the way from the start of marriage, all the way to being parents and helping your family to build wealth.
Andy Hill:
It's seven steps that I've taken from those conversations, and it'll walk people through how they can grow wealth and create a great future for their family.
Bobbi Rebell:
So cool. Tell us where people can find you, social handles, all that good stuff.
Andy Hill:
Excellent, yeah, so I'm at marriagekidsandmoney.com. On that site you'll be able to check out the podcast, The Young Family Wealth Playbook, as well as my blog. I'm also very busy on Twitter: @andyhillmkm. I'd love to have some conversations, and thanks for checking it out.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, Andy.
Andy Hill:
Excellent. Thanks so much, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, Andy. We can't help but be charmed by you, even though I can't believe you did that. So glad you clearly are a financial grownup now, and even more happy that your wife is still there with you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one: remember, the ring is just the beginning of the cost of your trip down the aisle, so if you blow your budget on that, oh my goodness. According The Knot, Americans spend an average of $6,351 on just the wedding ring.
Bobbi Rebell:
In Andy's case, given that he got married a few years ago, Andy was relatively in line at the $5,000 mark. If you want to stretch for that, that's fine, but you got to keep in mind what's coming next. The wedding. The average cost of a wedding, according to The Knot, again, is over $33,000, and, of course, in New York City, couples spend even more, almost $77,000, so that's a choice. But, think about it, if you are going to spend that kind of cash, make those decisions as a couple. Andy admits he messed up by not talking to his wife.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two: 529s are a great resource for parents, and if you are sending kids to private school, you now can use them for that, as well, but there are a lot of rules, and you need to play by those rules, or you're gonna get stuck. You're gonna pay higher fees than needed, as Andy warned, you also may have penalties if you try to get the money in a non-qualified way.
Bobbi Rebell:
I will leave a link to the sec.gov website that has a very easy and straightforward explainer article. Read it. I'm gonna leave some other helpful links, as well. You need to do your homework on this, because you may not be able to get to the money in the way you want, when you want, without the penalties, so just do it with your eyes open.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for joining us. If you like the promo videos that you are seeing on social media you can win one. Just share them in social media when you see them. I'll be making one for a lucky winner in July, basically based on whoever shares the most.
Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast, and, of course, stay in touch by following me on Twitter: @bobbirebell, on Instagram: @bobbirebell1.
Bobbi Rebell:
Andy, you truly became a financial grownup by learning your lesson. Glad it all worked out for you and the wife, and now your children. Thank you for helping us all get once step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
Likeable media’s Carrie Kerpen made a decision to step away from the day-to-day of her growing social media agency to focus almost exclusively on brand building. Today she is the host of the All the Social Ladies podcast, the author of Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business, and hosts a Facebook Watch channel under the Work It brand.
In Carrie’s money story you will learn:
-About Carrie’s company Likable, which is the 6th best place to work in New York City!
-How Carrie and her husband started their company with just $10,000
-Why they chose to grow organically rather than take outside funding
-The strategy behind not taking outside advertising on Carrie’s popular podcast “All the Social Ladies”
-How and why Carrie became so focused on brand building for Likeable
-The specific steps she planned and executed to achieve targeted milestones
-Why the re-branded the company from its original name (and what that name was!)
In Carrie’s money lesson you will learn:
-What to have in place in business before you start a brand building campaign
-How to determine the budget
-Metrics to consider when planning both short and long term goals
-Carrie’s strategy to balance content and connections on her podcast and other ventures
-How Carrie builds - and tracks- long term relationships with potential business partners, well ahead of time
-The specific kinds of goals Carrie sets to make sure she is generating value
-The biggest danger of long-term brand building strategies
In Carrie’s money tip you will learn:
-Her big negotiating strategy
-What she means when she says to hit the mute button
-How to use awkwardness to your advantage
-The secret to stalling as a strategy
In My Take you will learn:
-The importance of making sure you have financial stability in your business, and in your life, before you pull yourself into longer term strategies
-Why tracking everything, including touch points with long term leads is essential
-How paying it forward creates a culture of giving and supporting- that nearly always becomes a profit driver for all parties involved.
To get a free promo video- when you see the video-s share on social media!
Got a great money story to share? Be a guest! We love to have listeners on. Write to us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us your money story and an every day money tip and we’ll let you know if you have been selected for an upcoming episode!
EPISODE LINKS
Likeable.com
Listen to the All the Social Ladies Podcast!
Check out Carrie’s website CarrieKerpen.com
Get Carrie’s book Work it!
Follow Carrie!
Twitter @CarrieKerpen
Instagram @CarrieKerpen
Facebook Carrie Kerpen
Watch Carrie’s Work It Series on Facebook!
Transcription
Carrie Kerpen:
I track everything. Every email I send. Every time I get coffee. All of the things that I do with people who are qualified. And I also track what value I'm adding to them. I often send them things whether it's sending an article that I find relevant. Whether it's article to get them a piece in Forbes or something along those lines. I always am looking at how I can help people who can help me too.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me certified financial planner [Bobbi Rebell 00:00:29], author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own . We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Ever wonder how those cool brands, become so cool. Well there's actually a whole business around it. It doesn't happen by accident. We have one of the best in the business here with us, giving us the scoop on how she builds her own social media marketing and branding business. And personal brand. And it is very intentional and thought out. You'll be surprised how much goes into it. Nothing happens by accident my friends. First a quick welcome to our new listeners and our returning ones. So happy you're with us. If you like the show, tell someone. And of course don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes. I also want to thank everyone that's been emailing me, DM'ing me, posting compliments, on various social media about the video promos. Thank you. I really appreciate it. I did them by myself, and they were so much fun and I'm also really excited that we are having this contest where I'm going to get to make one for one of you, for your business or for you.
Bobbi Rebell:
All you have to do is share them between now and July first. If it goes well, we'll do it again. But I need you guys to share the videos when you see them, retweet them, on Facebook share them, on Instagram. You can repost them and make sure to tag me so that I see it, but I do have software that tracks as well. And you know what? You got to be in it, to win it. So you guys, you've been emailing me asking if you can pay me to make one. This is a way to get one for free, literally the most tiniest effort, totally free and I can't wait to see who I get to make one for. It's going to be really fun. Let's go to our guest. Likable Media's Carrie Kerpen, is the host of all the social ladies podcast, the author of Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business. And she also, because she has so much free time, she's also a mom and a wife by the way, she hosts a Facebook watch channel, under the Work It brand as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
She has fun for sure, but as you will hear she is meticulous in tracking her return on brand building investment. Carrie has specific metrics and goals, with all this content creation going on. She is laser focused on making sure that all of the pieces of her Likeable strategy work together. Like I said guys, nothing happens by accident, there's not a lot of luck involved. It's a lot of hard work, here is Carrie Kerpen. Carrie Kerpen you're a financial grownup welcome to the podcast.
Carrie Kerpen:
Thank you so much Bobbi, I'm so happy to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I love watching all of your different developments to your journey, in addition to being the head of Likeable Media, you have your podcast, All the Social Ladies, because you're a social media agency. You have your book, Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business. And of course you have columns in Ink and Forbes, and now you're in TV videos. You're everywhere Carrie.
Carrie Kerpen:
Thank you. I try. I'm trying.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait I have one more shout out. Your company, Likable Media, is the sixth best place to work. Is that in the world, or just New York City?
Carrie Kerpen:
That's New York. Sixth in New York City, but if you ask me it's the best place in the world to work. Because everybody's really does have a great time here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And I visited it, and I can attest it's a really great group of people that you have working at Likable, so. That's a very well earned, accolade. Is that what you call it? Award?
Carrie Kerpen:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know.
Carrie Kerpen:
An accolade, a distinction. Any of the things.
Bobbi Rebell:
All good things, yeah. So you do a lot for your work. So for your money story, what we're going to talk about is the fact that, while you definitely have to focus on the bottom line and earning, you have a nicely growing staff, you've got to support that payroll. At the same time, your money story has to do with making some business decisions, that aren't immediately obvious how they're going to pay off. Tell us what happened.
Carrie Kerpen:
Absolutely. So I have typically been very bottom-line focused in building my business and growing. You know, we grew when we started, my husband and I started this business with $10,000 in the bank, and we worked our way up, as an agency. You would sell clients, you would get in money, you would hire people. And sort of grow organically. We didn't take in funding or anything like that. And I had always been super conscious of the bottom line. And once we got to a point where I felt like we were really stable and I had a good understanding of our profit margins. I decided to take a certain amount of the profit margins and invest in brand building and investing in myself. I started with a podcast, which most people do a podcast, and look at it and say okay, how am I going to make money from advertising. I wasn't-
Bobbi Rebell:
Well you are the advertiser. Likable is the sponsor.
Carrie Kerpen:
Exactly. I invest-
Bobbi Rebell:
And you've turned people down.
Carrie Kerpen:
Yes-
Bobbi Rebell:
I know that you've been approached by outside sponsors.
Carrie Kerpen:
Outside sponsors, networks, et cetera. I don't take advertising for that podcast. I didn't take you know, a ton of money for Work It. You know just a simple amount to write it. And really didn't focus intensely on making money from book sales. And I really don't focus on incorporating any sponsors into Work It, now the series that I run on Facebook Watch. I really looked at that as a long game investment, in Likable's future, and in my future. How am I going to build a brand and focus on the brand building activities, and keep it out of being sponsored, you know, really just be truly focused on building the brand and adding value. And not worry so much on that about the bottom line. Understanding that investing in that upfront, yields a long-term result.
Bobbi Rebell:
Were there discussions with your team about this? With your husband, who's not fully involved in the business anymore, but he's still obviously an advisor in your life?
Carrie Kerpen:
Yes. So there were discussions around this both with my team and with my husband who serves on the board at Likable. So I would say that the first place I learned this from was my husband when he launched a book, that became a New York Times bestseller, called Likeable Social Media, back in 2010, when we were building the business. And we had just renamed our business Likable, it wasn't originally Likable when we started.
Bobbi Rebell:
What was the original name?
Carrie Kerpen:
The original name was the Cabas Kerpen. We had no idea what we were doing.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh that's so interesting, I never knew that. The Cabas.
Carrie Kerpen:
It was a very brief period of time we were the Cabas for about two years and then we decided to do Likable when, on the Facebook it was still like become a fan. You didn't even like a brand page. It was so fortuitous that as we did that, that really propelled are growth forward. Yeah so, Dave launched this book, invested a ton of time and energy in it. Essentially had me running the business while he was working on that brand. Didn't focus so much on book sales just focused on really getting his brand out there. And that really did help propel our business forward. So I learned from him, to do that, but I had a little bit of a lack of confidence of doing that, because I was uncomfortable, A, investing in myself, and B, putting myself in the spotlight. And so I had hesitated for a long time to use that strategy.
Carrie Kerpen:
Once I decided to use the strategy, I also met with the management and leadership team here at Likable, and said hey, I want to be where I can best serve the company. And I think the way I can best serve the company is to help drive leads through building a brand. What do you guys think if we take this year, and we really invest in that? And they thought that it was actually a great idea. And so I had the management structure in place, where the day to day handling of clients, was taken care of by my president, and the leadership team here at Likable. And so that I allowed myself, and freed myself up to do this. And once I had buy in from them, and buy in from Dave, I was ready to go.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So you were very aware that this was not going to be revenue driving. This was about brand building. What is the lesson then for other people who maybe want to do something that is not direct to the bottom line because there is so much pressure. How do you know when it's worth it? Because there's also the danger that you could say I'm doing this, but they're kind of just going down a road where they're doing something fun and fulfilling but maybe it doesn't necessarily pay off. Not every ... In other words, you were very directed, but how can you tell what is going to be a productive brand building exercise, non-revenue producing thing that you're going to do, that will lead, playing the long game, to building your business, as opposed to something that's just kind of going down the road.
Carrie Kerpen:
I have a few tips on this. So the first is to make sure you have enough in the bottom line to be able to invest in doing this. So I wouldn't recommend starting with this, when you have no bottom line, and no source of income or ability to do this. You need to be at a point where you've built your business enough to be sustainable, and have enough income that you're willing to invest. The second thing, is that you must be able to really articulate the way that this will help your business in the long run. So for me, when I do interviews, I make sure that a certain percentage of interviews are with women who I think can either be future clients or are people who can help me grow Likable. Either as advisors, or something along those lines. And I'm helping them by giving them a platform, and they're helping me, by helping me not only grow my network, but find the right people to work with. And I think the third piece, of what helps you set a strategy like this, is to have a long term goal. So, I wouldn't do this without an ability to have a long term financial goal attached.
Carrie Kerpen:
So in other words, the actual activities may not produce revenue. However, I can pull back and say, because of the women I've met through this, or because of this activity that I've done, I've been able to generate $5 million, over the course of five years. So something that is more long term, helps you thinking in the long term vision. This may not make you money right now, but how will this make you money in the long term?
Bobbi Rebell:
Did you set specific goals?
Carrie Kerpen:
Yes, I set specific goals for everything that I do. First I set specific goals on the bottom line that I need to produce for the, right now. So what are the activities that I'm doing right now that generate revenue? Then on the long term goals, I start with how many people am I going to need who I would describe as qualified? How many women or men am I going to network with who are potential clients of Likable. If that were my strategy. And then, it starts with the number of people I meet. Then the number of touch points, how many times I connect with them. I keep it all really well documented, so that I know that I'm nurturing relationships over time. And I think that's one of the keys to really looking at a long-term strategy. One of the dangers of a long-term strategy is you could say, oh it's so long term, it feels so far away I don't really need to worry about revenue at all. However with that, you can get really lost and invest too much in the current activity that you're doing to build a brand and then not reach the long-term goal. You have to always have that long-term goal in mind and I always have a revenue goal in mind when I do that.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you're being intentional, and you're tracking what you're doing.
Carrie Kerpen:
I track everything. Every email I send. Every time I get coffee. All of the things that I do with people who are qualified. And I also track what value I'm adding to them. Like I often send them things. Whether it's sending an article that I find relevant. Whether it's helping to get them a piece in Forbes or something along those lines, I always am looking at how I can help people who can help me too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Another way you can help people is with your money tip, which has to do with negotiating.
Carrie Kerpen:
Yup, in negotiating use what I call your mental mute button. In other words, sometimes when negotiating, we tend to talk way too much. We will go, well I think this, and I think I'm worth this, or I think I should be getting this. And here's why. And let me give you all of these reasons. Instead use a mental mute. Let's say you're negotiating for a speaking engagement. What is the speaking fee for this engagement? And then pause. Let them own the awkwardness. Let them ... Don't say well I normally charge this and well I normally do this. If you just put yourself on mute, let the awkwardness go to them, let them talk, and then give yourself the power to respond. Take a minute. And take a pause. Use that mental mute button and your negotiating will get a lot better, a lot faster.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. Do you ever leave completely and then come back and say I'll think about it, or do you feel you have to give an answer right away?
Carrie Kerpen:
No, I love stalling, I don't mind stalling at all. I think any kind of awkwardness to put on them is good, and owning your own time and your own power in that way is great.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, Carrie Kerpen, tell us what's going on. The book is already a best-seller. Now you're doing more video.
Carrie Kerpen:
Yup. So you can watch Work It on Facebook Watch, under Carrie Kerpen. You can get Work It, at workitthebook.com. And follow me at Carrie Kerpen on all social handles. It's all the same thing. Carrie Kerpen.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Carrie Kerpen.
Carrie Kerpen:
You are welcome Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Carrie makes it all look so easy, so it was great to hear the behind-the-scenes. There's a lot of thought and intention going on with everything that Carrie does. Not the least of which is that she didn't start doing all this personal branding until the time was right. So financial grownup tip number one, don't forget, you need for your business to have enough financial stability, so you can do things like meet payroll and other financial obligations, before you go out and do this big brand building like Carrie did. It's not that brand building is a luxury, or nice to have. It's needed. Totally. But keep the lights on in the most basic sense, paying your employees, making sure that payroll is happening and your business is running. That's got to come first. Financial grownup tip number two. Track everything. It is great to be social with clients, potential clients, and business related friends. And sometimes the lines get really blurred with who's a friend, who's a business acquaintance, who's a client. Life is messy.
Bobbi Rebell:
But this is still something that's important. It's something I don't do. But Carrie made me think about it. It is something worth starting to track. A connection made years ago and nurtured, can yield results now or in the future. Don't just go to people when you need something from them. Go to them, when you can give them something that may not even be something that they have been asking you for. Proactively offer to do something for them. Something you know they could benefit them. So many of the best opportunities come from the most tangential contacts. Often people that are not even in your closest circles. It's karma. It'll come back to you. So go today to someone that you haven't touch base with in a little bit, and reach out. And see if there's something you could do to help their business. All right I have been totally overwhelmed by emails and DM's, Facebook Messenger, social media comments, texts and in-person requests, for those promo videos. Just a reminder they are not for sale but they are available to win if you are interested. Very easy.
Bobbi Rebell:
All you have to do is when you see the promo videos on social media, retweet them, share them, repost them, tag me if you can. I do have software that tracks it either way, but just to be sure feel free to tag me when you do that. Don't assume by the way that you're not eligible for some reason. The winner of a recent book giveaway contest for Randi Zuckerberg's Pick Three, was someone that I knew, but you know what? She was first to enter, she was enthusiastic, she flowed directions and she was so excited when she won. As long as you're not related to me, and as long as you don't have any financial ties to the podcast, you are in. And guys isn't free better than paying for a video? I'm excited to see who wins. Anyway, on that note, I'll have to come up with a really good video, a really likable video I should say, for miss Carrie Kerpen.
Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed her story about investing in brand building. And doing things that sometimes a re a little bit out of our comfort zone. It's hard, even for me. I'm having a tough time getting comfortable sharing more of my life, personal things, but I'm working on it. I confess to not being good at tracking all of my various business coffees and all that stuff. More to come we'll see. But the responses make it worth it, So thanks to all of you. And thanks to Carrie for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a beer cave media production.
Indiana-based radiologist Dr. Scott Steenburg joins the Financial Grownup podcast as our first listener to share a money story. Scott shares the story of how a push to have students take out more money than needed to pay for tuition, created devastating debt situations for classmates.
In Scott’s money story you will learn:
-Why Scott was offered more money than needed when taking out student loans
-What Scott used his extra student loan cash to buy, and whether it was a smart financial decision
-The things his fellow students spent their extra student loan money on, and how that impacted their financial wellbeing.
-How the tech stock bubble impacted many of his peers who were leveraging student loan debt
-How much student loan debt Dr. Streenburg had, and how it compared to his peers
-The strategy he and his peers used when they could not pay the debt, along with the consequences
-Whether or not he believes taking on all the debt was worth it
In Scott’s money lesson you will learn:
-His big regret regarding the debt he incurred while in medical school
-The long-term consequences and impact to his peers that spent student loans for things other than tuition.
-The risks that medical students take on when assuming large student debt, that is unique to the medical profession.
In Scott’s money tip you will learn:
-How you can get medical school debt forgiven
In My Take you will learn:
-how to find programs that allow you have loans reduced or forgiven
-The requirements needed for student loan forgiveness
-Resources to manage, lower, and get rid of student debt
EPISODE LINKS
Government website links:
Here is the article from Robert Farrington’s The College Investor:
This is the article by Melanie Lockert.
You can also check out Melanie’s episode of Financial Grownup here!
You can consolidate your student debt, and get more information by visiting websites, including two that I mention, SoFi.com and StudentLoanHero.com
Follow Scott!
Twitter @radiology911
Transcription
Scott Steenburg:
Some of my classmates used their excess money to invest in tech stocks. It did not turn out well for them. Some of my classmates lost all of their student loan money in the dot-com bubble.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. This is a big episode here at Financial Grownup. We tried an experiment. We asked you guys to send in your money stories and your everyday money saving tips to potentially be a guest here on the show, and you know what? It worked out really well. We have our first listener episode. I am so excited for how it turned out. Our guest is fantastic. He is a radiologist in Indiana, Dr. Scott Steenburg, so let's get to Dr. Scott's story. It is about the loans that he and his medical school classmates racked up years ago.
Bobbi Rebell:
Student debt to pay tuition is one thing, but taking up more than you need to actually pay the tuition, your real school costs, is a whole other thing, and the reality is that in some cases people are talked into taking out more than they need, just in case. But remember, that money is there and sometimes it doesn't get paid back right away. Sometimes it gets invested in, oh, technology stocks that can crash and burn in the dot-com bubble. It could also go to a new car. You'll hear all about it. Here is Dr. Scott Steenburg.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Scott Steenburg. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Scott Steenburg:
Thanks a lot, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations, you are our very first listener that we are having as a guest. You're the winner, so I'm so excited to have you.
Scott Steenburg:
I'm glad to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Just quickly, tell us about you, what you do.
Scott Steenburg:
Sure. My name is Scott Steinberg. I am a radiologist in Indiana. A radiologist is a physician who specializes in interpretation of medical images such as X-ray, CAT scan, and MRI, and my subspecialty is in the emergency and trauma radiology world.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. What made you decide to write in?
Scott Steenburg:
Well, I've been listening to your podcast since the very beginning. A lot of your stories that you have on your podcast are very compelling, and when I heard that you wanted to have a listener on with a compelling story, I thought, "You know, there are some really weird things about the student loan industry," particularly with respect to medical school that I thought maybe this might be something that you haven't heard of before, so I reached out to you and told you some interesting nuggets about that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which brings us to your story, which is very interesting, especially because it has to do with your student loans, but also money that you didn't necessarily use for tuition, so tell us exactly what happened.
Scott Steenburg:
Sure. As you probably know, medical school is not cheap, so most medical students need to finance their education with student loans. At that time when I started medical in 1999, it was really easy to get a lot of loans for all four years of medical school.
Bobbi Rebell:
And how much did four years of medical school cost at the time?
Scott Steenburg:
At the time tuition, I went to an instate school, it was maybe 9,000 per semester, so 18 to 20,000 per year, which is not a whole lot by today's standards.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so go on. You were able to get financing, though, to go to school?
Scott Steenburg:
Yes, so during the interview process, you interview for getting into the medical school, and then in the afternoon you meet with a financial aid counselor to figure out how you're going to pay for medical school. At that time, I'm not sure if it's commonplace now, but at that time we were kind of nudged towards taking out the maximum allowable student loans because in future years, if you lower the amount that you requested, there was no guarantee that you'd be able to increase that number in the future, so we were kind of nudged towards just take up the maximum, and if you have access leftover you can do whatever you want with it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so how much did you take out relative to what the tuition was? You took out more than the tuition.
Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, so as a medical student it's hard to have a job to help pay for living expenses, so a lot of medical students will finance not only their tuition, but also living expenses such as food and rent and whatnot.
Bobbi Rebell:
What did you use the money for, besides living expenses? You bought a car.
Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, yeah. That's one thing that I told you about. If you have excess student loans, you can do whatever you want with it. You can either pay back immediately, which is the financially responsible thing to do. What I did one semester is I knew I had enough living expenses saved up, I already looked at my budget, I knew I wasn't going to need the student loan check, so I literally, it arrived in the mail and I walked across the street to the bank and put it in a one-year CD. At that time, the interest rate was somewhere just higher than the interest rate for the loan, so I did make a little bit on that, but it would have been smarter just to pay back right away to lower the overall balance. One thing I did in the subsequent years, I needed a new car, my car was falling apart, I needed to be able to commute from my apartment to school, so I used my excess student loan money to buy a new car.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did you need a car? I mean, was that a legit expense, or did you buy a lot more than you really needed?
Scott Steenburg:
We bought what we needed. The good thing about this, if there is a silver lining, is I put 50% down, so there's a small balance, but then I financed the rest at 7%, which was not a great idea, so I'm using the student loan money that has an interest rate at that time of 3.5% to pay off another loan that has 7%, so that was a terrible, terrible choice.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, but you told me some people did even other things like buying tech stocks.
Scott Steenburg:
Yeah, so this was in 1999 to 2003 when I was in medical school, and some of my classmates used their excess money to invest in tech stocks, and it did not turn out well for them. Some of my classmates lost all of their student loan money in the dot-com bubble.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. That's really scary. Let's talk more about you. So, we get to the end of school. Describe to me how much you had in debt and then what was happening at that point.
Scott Steenburg:
Sure, so I graduated in 2003 and immediately started residency, entered a five-year residency in radiology. At that time, the student loan balance was about 130,000 which by today's standards is a fraction of what students are graduating with. I threw out an informal poll to a closed physician Facebook group that I'm a part of, and the numbers I was getting back for current graduates was between 200 and 400,000. So by today's standards my balance was not all that big, and even the minimum payments at that time were somewhat draconian. I was making a resident salary which at that time was about $35,000 per year, and out of that, of course, I needed living expenses, had to pay for a car, had to commute every day, so even the minimum payment was tight.
Scott Steenburg:
So what a lot of students do in this instance is they first defer, and at that point you could defer up to 36 months. I think it might still be that. Then after that, if you still can't make your payments, then you can go into forbearance, which is even worse, so then throughout the entire time the interest is accruing. From the time I started medical school to the time I started paying down my loan, it was nine years, so that was a long time of compounding.
Bobbi Rebell:
So then where did it stand? How did this end up?
Scott Steenburg:
Sure. The balance tipped the scales at about 165,000. I started making very aggressive payments in 2009, and this story turns out okay. I was able to finish paying off those loans last year. Everything turned out okay, and I really don't have any complaints. Taking all these loans helped enable me to realize my dream of becoming a physician and being a radiologist and doing what I love to do, but I live in a world of chaos in the emergency and trauma world, and I see people's lives destroyed every day.
Scott Steenburg:
Nine years of deferral of putting off student loan payments is a long time. That's a long time, and anything could have happened. If I developed an illness, or if I were in a car accident like a lot of the patients I see every day, or if I developed a disability or for some reason couldn't finish residency, that would have been really, really bad. And fortunately everything turned out okay for me, but for a lot of people it doesn't.
Bobbi Rebell:
How did you feel when you would see $165,000 as your balance?
Scott Steenburg:
Honestly, I buried my head in the sand. I didn't want to think about it. When I saw the number going up every month, and each month the amount that it would increase would increase because of compounding, I put it out of sight, out of mind. I kept my eye on the prize of finishing residency, and when I got an attending job, an attending salary, I had to be able to quickly pay it off, but in retrospect, I was entering the danger zone. You know, if something bad happened that negatively impacted my ability to earn income, it may not have turned out so well, and as you know and many of your listeners know, dismissing student loans and bankruptcy is very challenging.
Bobbi Rebell:
Is that something you ever thought about?
Scott Steenburg:
No, no.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Scott Steenburg:
I knew that once I finished residency and got a job I was going to be able to pay it down. I mean, the number is big and it was moderately terrifying, but once I started seeing that number come down, I started to feel better about it. I regretted having that balanced because I knew I could be taking that money and putting it to good use elsewhere. I did some math. You know, if I didn't have student loans and I used all that money to invest, it was a much bigger return than just taking out the student loans.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the takeaway then, for our listeners? When you look back at who you were when you were first entering medical school and having these meetings with the financial aid advisors, what would you have done differently, if anything?
Scott Steenburg:
I probably would have taken the excess money that I didn't need. I would have just paid back the balance and be able to give it back. You can use debt as a tool to accomplish your goals. However, if you're going to use debt to finance an education, you have to be very mindful of that. You need to be conservative, only take out what you need and then pay back as quickly as possible. If you use debt, especially for education, incorrectly and something bad happens that negatively impacts your ability to pay back the loan, that could be financially devastating.
Bobbi Rebell:
What about these people that were ... I mean, was it a popular thing at the time to take your student loan money, and instead of using it for tuition, use it to buy stocks?
Scott Steenburg:
That was one popular thing that students did. Other students would, if they had time off, they would go on a nice vacation. Like, me, I helped buy a car. That's what a lot of the students did, and like me, a lot of them were putting it out of sight, out of mind. All we need to do is finish medical school, go to residency, get an attending job with a higher salary, and pay back the loans quickly. But as I said before, it's a long time from the time you start to the time you end and start making a physician salary to be able to pay that down aggressively, and anything could happen in that time.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is your money tip now? You have something really innovative that maybe some people don't know about, but could really be helpful.
Scott Steenburg:
One thing that exists in the medical world is a student loan forgiveness program where if you start paying off your loans even during training and you go to work for a non-profit, over a shorter period of time you'll have those loans forgiven. I'm sure there are other programs for non-medical professionals where there's a similar type track where if you go to, for example, an underserved area in your field, that you may be able to have some of your student loans forgiven or paid off.
Bobbi Rebell:
Great. Well, thank you so much, Scott. Is there anything else that you want to add? Anything you want people to know about you? How to reach you?
Scott Steenburg:
Sure. If you'd like to follow me on Twitter, I'm @Radiology911.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.
Scott Steenburg:
So that's a nod to my ... that's a nod to my-
Bobbi Rebell:
How did you get that? That's pretty cool that you got that handle.
Scott Steenburg:
I don't know. It just came to me, so I picked it. So that's a nod to what I do. I don't do a whole lot of personal finance there. Most of what I do is medical education, physician wellness, and policy, but if you like to see interesting images, that's where to go.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you, Scott. You were wonderful, and really thank you so much for supporting the program.
Scott Steenburg:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. So first, student loan debt, as Scott mentioned, is pretty hard to get rid of unless you actually pay it. It stays with you even in bankruptcy, but there are some programs that you can at least look into and some options that are emerging, some new things in just the past few years. I'm going to send you guys to government website called studentloans.gov, and from there you can look for how to repay your loans and go to repayment forms. I'm going to now walk you through some of what you'll see there just to give you a high level sense of your options.
Bobbi Rebell:
So financial grownup tip number one, some loans, like Federal Family Education Loans and Perkins Loans can be eligible for something called Public Service Loan Forgiveness. The key thing for eligibility is that you have made 120 qualifying payments under a qualifying repayment plan while working full-time for a qualifying employer. That's a lot, I know.
Bobbi Rebell:
The key thing, though, qualifying employment is generally things like government organizations, federal, state, local. They even say tribal on that government site. You guys are going to follow up and look for yourselves. Also non-profits, like those with the 501(c)(3) designation. Also some other non-profit organizations, if they provide certain public services, things like AmeriCorps or Peace Corps volunteer. So if you are interested in those things anyway, it could be something to look into that could pay off in more ways than one.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number second. Now, this is more for the for-profit schools, some of which were not living up to what they promised students, so you can also apply for something called borrower defense to repayment if you took out loans to attend a school that misled you about the educational services that you paid for with the loans. There's a lot of fine print to all of this. You have to follow up by really combing through the website. It even covers the extremely rare times that student debt can be forgiven in bankruptcy, but again, that's very rare. And also, of course, what happens to student debt if the student or the parents, who in some cases are the borrowers, pass away.
Bobbi Rebell:
A few other resources regarding student debt. Check out one of my favorite websites on this topic, The College Investor. It is run by Robert Farrington. He knows a lot about student debt. He even has a great article I'm going to leave. Well, there's many great articles, but I'm going to leave a link to an article that's one of my favorite in the show notes for more ideas to get your debt forgiven, and also answering questions about things you might have heard of that were options in the past but have now merged into other forms, so it's important to keep up with it. It's kind of a moving target, the way that the laws change. Also, SoFi and Student Loan Hero both run blogs that have a lot of useful information. I'm going to leave a link to a great article by my friend and former financial grownup podcast guest, Melanie Lockert, in the show notes as well that has some great resources.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to radiologist Scott Steenburg for being our very first listener to share their money story and advice. It was great. If you want to be considered for an upcoming episode, email us at info@financialgrownup.com. Tell us what money story and what everyday money tip you would share if you were chosen.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for your support. If you listen on Apple Podcasts, please take a moment to rate and review the podcast. If you are enjoying the podcast, please tell someone that you think would also like it. Spread the word. Post it in one of your Facebook groups and tell people to check it out. If you spot one of our video promos on Twitter or Instagram, share that, and you could win a custom one just for yourself. We're running a little competition.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm on Twitter, @bobbirebell, on Instagram, at bobbirebell1, on Facebook, at Bobbi Rebell. I can't thank Scott enough for reaching out and being our first listener to share a story. It was a good one, and something unfortunately way too many people can relate to, but I do think his story and his great advice got us all one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Writer Paulette Perhach, known for her F*** Off Fund articles and website, has been featured in Cosmo and Glamour, but collecting cash from her writing clients was killing her ability to be a financial grownup. Paulette also shares her secret to free stuff- and previews her upcoming book “Welcome to the Writer’s Life, our August 15..
In Paulette’s money story you will learn:
-Why Paulette struggles with accepting whether or not she is a financial grownup
-How Paulette became famous, but without the financial rewards following that fame
-The job Paulette had that taught the her most about sales and marketing
-What Paulette did on the day she realized she needed to make some cash- fast
-How Paulette keeps her expenses in check to allow her to pursue her writing career
-Why collecting pay, in a timely manner, is just as important as getting hired
-How Paulette adjusted her pitch to focus less on her needs, and more on her customer needs
-The strategy Paulette used to leverage the contacts she made on one day, into future long term and consistent clients
-The psychological technique Paulette uses when she feels discouraged
In Paulette’s money lesson you will learn:
-The importance of keeping expenses low when income is unpredictable- and specific strategies to do that.
-How and why pay does not line up with work, and how you can manage cash flow challenges
In Paulette’s money tip you will learn
-How she gets things for free!
-The specific items and services she has received that were given to her and why, along with how she contributes to her community
-Where you can find Buy Nothing groups
-About Paulette’s new book “Welcome to the Writers Life”
-Paulette’s advice: If you are in the arts, you are also in sales
In My Take you will learn:
-The importance of keeping overhead low when starting a business, and maintaining cost controls
-How to integrate money making ideas into things you already do and enjoy
Episode Links
Paulette' website: Fuckofffund.com
Follow Paulette- and her bank balances!
Twitter: @PaulettePerhach
Instagram: @PaulettePerhach
Hire Paulette as a writing consultant and much more!! https://hugohouse.org/store/consultant/paulette-perhach/
Pre-order Paulette’s book “Welcome to the Writers Life” !
If you want to be considered for an upcoming listener episode- email us your money story, money lesson and money tip to info@financialgrownup.com
If you want to win a free custom video promo- share and retweet the promos when you see them - and make sure to tag @bobbirebell
Transcription
Paulette Perhac:
It's never been too good to hustle. Some days, you got to hustle and yeah, I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of, How to be a Financial Grownup, but you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this. Hey friends, before we get to our awesome guest, Paulette Perhac known for what she calls in our friendly universe, the Foe fund.
Bobbi Rebell:
It'll make sense, trust me. I just want to welcome all of our new listeners to the podcast and also welcome back our regular listeners. We keep your episodes short to fit your schedule, but also to be flexible. So you can binge and hear a few great stories when you have a little more time in your day. If you are enjoying the show, please take a moment to tell a friend about it. Share it on social media, we want to get your help growing the community and we really appreciate it by the way.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Paulette, as you will hear, I joke with Paulette Perhac that she's not quite a financial grownup, but really are we ever? It's a process and for Paulette, the process has been painful at times. She has received a ton of acclaim for her writing and even has been able to raise her rates a bit, but collecting the cash, that has kept her on the financial edge and forced her to get creative. You're going to like this one. Here is Paulette Perhac. Hey Paulette Perhac you're a financial grownup or at least getting there. Welcome to the podcast.
Paulette Perhac:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
And we're getting it a little bit giggly, which will make a lot of sense in just a minute when Paulette tells her story. But you are an emerging major writer. You've had pieces all over the place including the piece that got you really famous called the F off Fund and we're going to keep it clean here so no worry. If you are in the car listening with your kids, but Paulette, before we get to your money story, tell us a little bit about this article that sort of blasted you into the universe.
Paulette Perhac:
So we call it in my family around my nephew the fore fund, so-
Bobbi Rebell:
The Fore fund, I like that.
Paulette Perhac:
As I was coming into my 30s and got a great job at a tech company and had for the first time a few thousand in the bank that didn't have a name on it. I was thinking back to some memories that I had of times that I was desperate for a job or couldn't move out because I just couldn't afford to. I realized, "Oh, it would've been so nice if I had, had this money in that bank account." And you don't really think about because humans have this optimism bias.
Paulette Perhac:
If you don't think bad situations you're going to get in. So, I really described a situation in which you do the normal thing. Where you're living paycheck to paycheck and then getting bad situations or if you decide to be someone who can have a fore fund in case you need it and what that would look like. So I described those two scenarios in the fore fund article. I thought it was just another essay and then it blew up and it went all around the world and just this month, both Cosmo and Glamour mentioned it. Two years later, which is crazy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Great, and now that's becoming a whole business, which we're going to circle back to. But I want to hear the money story that you're ready to share with us, and it's so apropos because just moments ago what crosses on my Instagram, but a snapshot of your bank account, which despite all of the success with your fore fund writing and the business that is emerging from that article, which is unbelievable, that this is all happening to you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes massive career success and prominence does not always connect to money. So, you found yourself one day with how much money in your bank account would you say?
Paulette Perhac:
So I had about $900 and my rent on my tiny place in Seattle was about to come through at 795.
Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, because we were just joking about this, your apartment is how big.
Paulette Perhac:
It's 150 square feet.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Just saying not like you're living so large.
Paulette Perhac:
Not living so large. So I was like, "What do I do?" And I had just been feeling like I'm living large because you and I were in the Catskills in New York. I'm going to these parties with like Aaron Lowery and meeting with my editor at the New York Times and having breakfast with another reporter at the New York Times.
Bobbi Rebell:
Just like big media people, big stuff that's happening.
Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, big stuff is happening. Having meetings with people who are on the Forbes Top 100 most powerful women list. Awesome, right? And we're in talks about future projects, et cetera. So, it's like everything's coming together. Then I landed home and I'm like, I have $100. I don't have any work lined up. I just posted yesterday on Instagram a timeline of something I'm about to get paid for. I pitched that story on February 12th. So that shows you how long it takes to get from pitch to payment?
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Paulette Perhac:
And so I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I'm in trouble. What am I going to do?"
Bobbi Rebell:
You need cash immediately.
Paulette Perhac:
I need cash. Yeah. So the panic starts to rise up, right? And I've really realized this year that the panic is not helping you and so you just have to calm down whenever you feel those feelings. I'm like, what will help you feel more powerful? I'm like, you need like an adult lemonade stand, and I just decided a lemonade stand-
Bobbi Rebell:
And by lemonade stand, what do you mean?
Paulette Perhac:
I mean like a personal mini business from which you feel fairly confident you could make some money in the next 24 hours and that's marketing, execution and billing. So, I took the last of my business cards and I printed up a label for the back. Mother's Day was that Sunday, so I'm like, Mother's Day, I'm hustling. So I printed up labels that said mother's Day photos, like quick and easy or quick and fun. Mother's Day photos, 15 minutes, 20 bucks.
Paulette Perhac:
And I took my camera. I looked at like, what are my assets, right? I have a car, I could drive around, I can't do uber, it's from 1996. So I could deliver food.
Bobbi Rebell:
Uber has standards.
Paulette Perhac:
Uber has standards, I do not. A to B, that's my standard. So I looked at my other asset, which is this really nice camera that I bought as an investment in my writing, in travel writing business. So I just went around and hustled all day, Mother's Day. I think I walked six miles. I ran out of business cards, but I-
Bobbi Rebell:
What was your pitch? Tell us your pitch.
Paulette Perhac:
My pitch. I started by being like, "Hi, I'm a local writer and a photographer," and people were just like, "ugh." So, I realize I'm talking about myself. Nope, so it evolves over the day to focus on the customer and I just said, "Hi, happy mother's Day," because no one's like, "Go away if you say Happy Mother's Day." I said, "Happy Mother's day, if you guys want a nice photo, I'm doing $20 portraits today." So it was a really fun day overall.
Paulette Perhac:
I felt empowered. I felt like I was taking control and then I got some follow up clients actually, I'm rewriting one of the groups of women. One of them was from San Francisco. She's a realtor from San Francisco. We got to talking. They were great, I gave them a little bit of extra time just because it was fun, and she is hiring me to rewrite her bio for 300 bucks.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's so awesome. That's so awesome. Wait, so how much did you make that day and how much did you make from that day going forward?
Paulette Perhac:
So my supplies were 12, and then I had to get more cards printed, which was like 33. So I was like, "Oh my gosh." So after taking those out, I only made $85 that day, which is not a ton, it's not nothing. What I realized was that I now have given my card out to a bunch of people who know I'm a photographer.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Paulette Perhac:
One woman was pregnant, she asked me if I do maternity photos, and then next time what I'll do is just have an A frame sign and stay in one place. Because I think that, that will be more successful, less hustling work for me. I laid down at the end of that day in the park after giving out all my cards, and I was just pooped. I felt really good. I felt like the best kind of exhausted.
Bobbi Rebell:
But you did something.
Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, I did something.
Bobbi Rebell:
You did something, like you had a problem, and you did something proactive to solve it instead of just kind of living in your panic about money.
Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, and I think self-pity is really dangerous, especially if you work in the arts, because you have to remember like I chose this life, what am I going to do about it? Sitting there and just being like, "Wheh, I don't get paid on time. Wheh, it's hard to be a writer." Not saying I never sit there, but when I'm in that space I realize that it's dangerous.
Bobbi Rebell:
Talk about the lessons that you would share with our listeners. What's the takeaway here?
Paulette Perhac:
So I think the takeaway is knowing that you don't owe a whole lot. So for me low overhead is really important. You know, it's just nice to know that my rent including utilities, is 795, I almost never feel like, "Oh I can't pay that." I also have a book coming out in August, so that's a lot of unpaid marketing work for the book.
Paulette Perhac:
So I think having that plan, like knowing like what would I do today if I needed money and just knowing, so like for example, I'm going to go to a music festival over Memorial Day and I'm going to do it again, taking music festival portraits there. I'm really excited about that, and I think it's going to get better and better, and I'm going to make more and more every time I need to do that.
Paulette Perhac:
And I think eventually I won't need to do it anymore, but it's never been too good to hustle too. Some days you got to hustle, and yeah I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.
Bobbi Rebell:
So Paulette, tell us about your money tip.
Paulette Perhac:
So my favorite secret money tip is to join a buy nothing group, which are these groups that are popping up that kind of celebrate trading, and giving and, just offering if you have anything. And so I just got a Le Creuset casserole dish on it yesterday. I got a vacuum last week, and then when I moved into my tiny place, and I had a ton of stuff to give away, I gave away a bunch of stuff. I just got a haircut this morning on the buy nothing group at a place that usually probably costs 100 bucks for a haircut.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, how do they make sure that people don't come on and just take, take, take.
Paulette Perhac:
You could just take, take, take. I haven't seen that problem yet. You know, I think people are willing to give. It's things that they would be giving away anyway, but I have found that the more that I get from it, the more I want to give. And people have offered financial advice, people have offered instruments, and it's just kind of this nice community, especially if you live in a big city, it's a very small area. So now I kind of know my neighbors more.
Bobbi Rebell:
So how do you find these groups?
Paulette Perhac:
So I would google buy nothing, mine is the Facebook group.
Bobbi Rebell:
Is there criteria to get in, or they just let anyone in? How is it? It sounds too good to be true.
Paulette Perhac:
I know, right? Well, I think the thing is I've been in both situations where the things that people have given me have helped me so much to get new furniture or whatever. And so then once I got from the group giving was a pleasure.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're also so much part of the writer's community. You spend so much of your time and energy giving back to other writers and supporting writers. Tell us about your book that's coming out soon. It's happening.
Paulette Perhac:
So on August 15th, my book, Welcome to the Writer's life is coming out, which is everything I've learned about the writing business, the writing craft and the writing life from being in a writing community. So it's a very crowd sourced book and very much wanting to give back what I've gained from living in a creative community. And it's like freshman orientation for new writers, and a lot of people have benefited from it even if they do business writing or side writing. You don't have to be a full time writer, you just have to want to get joy out of the act of writing.
Bobbi Rebell:
And what have you learned in your years about the business of writing? In other words, you talk about how hard it is to get paid.
Paulette Perhac:
I think if you're in the arts, you are also in sales, which we don't want to say out loud, but you have your leads, you have to bring your value prop, like you have to sell your stuff, and consider yourself a business. I wish that I had said I'm starting a freelance business, rather than I'm going freelance because that's what it is. So you're not ready for operations and marketing and sales and you just get sledge hammered by the reality of like, "Oh I got to go sell today," which is like what you have to do.
Paulette Perhac:
So I've been in it like two years full-time, and I'm just now like, I have a whole share point for my writing business. I'm getting serious because I don't want to fail.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Miss Paulette, how can people find you and follow you and hire you most importantly?
Paulette Perhac:
Yes so send money to ... No. I'm on Twitter @Pauletteperhac. My website is fuckofffund spelled out, .com, so fuckofffund.com, and I'm on Instagram @PauletteJperhac where you can see my bank balances. Just google me and you'll find me, and I have a lot of different projects. Mostly I want to bring people who want to live creative lives. I want to help them make the creative life happen while I figure it out. That's really the thing is like I'm someone who's traditionally bad with money.
Paulette Perhac:
I'm getting better with money and want to live that creative life. I love my life. I love my day to day that this is my life and I want to make it work. So I want to help other people do it too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we love watching your star rise, so thank you so much.
Paulette Perhac:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
There is so much we can all learn from Paulette. I hope you enjoyed that interview. Financial Grownup tip number one. When you are running a business or just the business of your life, keep your overhead low. Paulette lives in a very expensive city, but she makes it work by keeping those costs down and living anything but large. Her apartment, as she mentioned, is a 150 square feet. That's a closet to some people, some very fortunate people, but still some people.
Bobbi Rebell:
She also literally does not pay for things. She's in a buy nothing group. So maybe find a buy nothing group near you. What a great tip. Financial Grownup tip number two, integrate your hustle into things you're already doing. Paulette loves to go to concerts and festivals, so she brings her camera and her business cards and you know what? She makes money even while living her life. Thanks Paulette. We have our first listener episode coming up very soon in the month of June.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us at info@financialgrownup and tell us what the story is and what your everyday money tip would be if you were to be chosen. Thank you for being part of our Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating or review. And of course hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any episodes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Follow me on Twitter @Bobbirebell, on Instagram @Bobbirebell1, and by the way, thanks for the great feedback on our promo videos. If you would like one for you or for your business, share the video when you see them. We'll be making one for whoever shares the most between now and July, 1st. You could even see them by the way, on our new YouTube channel. Just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, and you will find it.
Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, soon after we taped Paulette's interview, she did finally get paid by her client, so a happy ending there. A quick reminder, Paulette's book, Welcome to the Writer's Life is available for pre order, so go get it. I think it's safe to say her story successfully brought us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
After an early divorce set Kayla Sloan on an emotional spending binge and into debt, she discovered she could help herself, by working behind the scenes helping a growing market of entrepreneurs- and then becoming one herself.
In Kayla’s money story you will learn:
-How her marriage, at age 19, had on her financial behavior
-The way Kayla’s desire to spend, contrasted with her husband’s push to save money, and the conflicts that resulted from those differences.
-Kayla’s emotional spending after the marriage ended after less than a year
-How Kayla managed the cash flow challenges once she was divorced
-The moment she realized she had hit rock bottom, with $10,000 in credit card debt and just $3 in her banking account
-How her total debt moved into six figures by age 21
-The solution she found, that has morphed into a successful entrepreneurial venture
-What virtual assistants do, and how entrepreneurs can tap into that resource
In Kayla’s lesson you will learn:
-How simply filling up her time with an exciting new venture was enough of a distraction to stop the emotional spending
-How Kayla came up with specific ideas for slashing her debt, and what were the most effective techniques
-Why Kayla also prioritized increasing her income, so she would still be able to enjoy responsible spending
In Kayla’s money tip you will learn:
-Why you should not save your fancy stuff (if you have it) for special occasions
-How she made the most of all the fancy wedding presents she did not use during her marriage, including appliances
-How to avoid buying new things, when you already have things in your home that can get the job done, even if they are not what is conventionally expected
-How to tell if you need a virtual assistant, and how to get yourself ready to onboard a VA.
In My Take you will learn:
-How to learn the value of your time, and decide if you should outsource aspects of your business
-Where to get fancy stuff to use if you did not get it as a gift for a wedding or special occassion like Kayla.
Episode links:
kaylasloan.com
Twitter @kaylarsloan
Instagram @kaylarsloan
Facebook @krsloan
Kayla's course on How to be a Virtual Assistant and Make $10k a Month
You can buy vintage dinnerware, crystal, silver and other collectables at places like Replacements.com, Chairish.com and even TheRealReal.com
After an early divorce set Kayla Sloan on an emotional spending binge and into debt, she discovered she could help herself, by working behind the scenes helping a growing market of entrepreneurs- and then becoming one herself. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn how you can tell when you need a virtual assistant. #Entrepreneur #VirtualAssistant #Debt
Transcription
Announcer:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.
Kayla Sloan:
I went into total rebellion mode. I adopted a pet kitten. I went to the mall during every spare moment I had when I wasn't working or in class, and racked up about $10,000 in credit card debt and had only about $3 in my bank account.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
What to know more about how those super successful entrepreneurs pull off their busy schedules? Well, there's usually someone called a virtual assistant behind the scenes keeping everything going. Stay tuned to learn more about how our guest tapped into that need to pull herself out of an emotional spending cycle.
Bobbi Rebell:
First, a couple of announcements. We are having a little competition here. It is about the video promos that you see on social media letting everyone know about the episodes. We've gotten amazing feedback about them and people asking how can they get one. So if you want one for your business or just for yourself, share them, retweet them, repost them between now and July 1st. Whoever does it the most, we will declare you the winner and we will make you a promo for your business or just for you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Also, we want to welcome the new listeners here and thank returning listeners. So glad you are joining us. We keep the podcast short, usually around 15 minutes. The idea is that we're all really busy and sometimes we only have little bursts where we can listen to a podcast, maybe we're running a quick errand, so we want to make it easy for you. And then, of course, if you have more time -- if you commute or you're running around town and want to listen to podcasts while you're doing other things throughout the day -- you can binge listen to three, four, five episodes for an hour or so and enjoy it that way. So whatever works for you, we're all about being flexible and fitting into your lifestyle.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our fantastic guest. She is tapping into a growing market need, entrepreneurs who need just the right amount of help but without the commitment of hiring someone -- usually in-person, full-time, where they have to get office space for and so on -- because the growing class of often solo entrepreneurs just need a little help sometimes for a project, sometimes a little longer. Kayla Sloan discovered she had a unique talent for tapping into this demand when she found herself with just $3 in her bank account and growing pile of debt, and needed to find a way out. Here is Kayla Sloan. Hey, Kayla Sloan. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Kayla Sloan:
Thanks for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
I am excited to have you on because you have tapped into a niche that is so cool in this ever-emerging gig economy because you help entrepreneurs.
Kayla Sloan:
Yes, I am a consultant in the virtual assistant space, and not only do I train people who want to become virtual assistants, but I also work with business owners who are in need of a virtual assistant. So I help them identify what they can outsource so they can up-level their businesses and find a great virtual assistant that can help them get there.
Bobbi Rebell:
Genius. All right, so let's talk about your money story. Sadly, it is something so many of us can relate to, and that is going through things like a divorce, broken relationships, and the financial impact that they can have. In your case, you had $3 in the bank. You basically started emotionally shopping, but that was in reaction to what was going on in the marriage. Tell us more.
Kayla Sloan:
So this story really started when I was about 19-years old. I got married very young and went off to college. I was attending school and he was working, so I wasn't really earning very much money at that time. I had a student internship that paid about $10 an hour is all. And so since he was earning the majority of the money, it really felt like I needed to ask permission whenever I wanted to spend money on anything. Since he was a saver and I was a spender, there was always a lot of conflict around money in our relationship. At the time, I really felt as if I couldn't purchase anything without asking permission, which is never a fun feeling, especially if you are a spender. So fast forward a few months and we actually ended up getting divorced.
Bobbi Rebell:
The marriage was less than a year, right?
Kayla Sloan:
Yes, just under a year. And we had no kids or property to split up, thank goodness, because that would have made it much more difficult I'm sure. I've talked to a lot of friends who've been in that situation. Anyway, we split up and luckily I was able to take the assets with me that I had brought into the marriage; it's just my vehicle, household belongings, things like that. And even my retirement account was intact.
Bobbi Rebell:
So this is interesting. So you were actually in okay financial shape when the marriage actually split up.
Kayla Sloan:
Yes. I really didn't end up that bad off. I was kind of struggling to pay the bills with an immediate cashflow because of only working part-time and suddenly having to pay the rent by myself.
Bobbi Rebell:
But then the trouble came with this emotional shopping, which was really ... This is interesting. It was reactive to the fact that he was so controlling with your finances during the marriage, so then you went the other way.
Kayla Sloan:
Yes, I went the absolute other way. I went into total rebellion mode. I adopted a pet kitten. I went to the mall during every spare moment I had when I wasn't working or in class, and racked up about $10,000 in credit card debt and had only about $3 in my bank account.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my goodness. And of course, then comes graduation time and there's even more debt, correct?
Kayla Sloan:
Yes. Graduation brings on more debt for most people. As you and I both know, student loans are a huge problem. I was lucky in only having about $8,000 of student loans when I graduated, making a total of $18,000. But then I turned right around at age 21, right after graduating, and bought a house for $120,000, so I really was feeling that financial pinch after I graduated.
Bobbi Rebell:
So total debt ... I'm trying to do the math here. $140,000?
Kayla Sloan:
Yeah, pretty close. Pretty close.
Bobbi Rebell:
At age 21, with income of about 10 bucks an hour still?
Kayla Sloan:
At that time, I did land a full-time job after graduation, so my take home salary was probably about $25,000 plus benefits.
Bobbi Rebell:
What I like about this story is that you turned things around basically by starting to think like an entrepreneur. So tell us, fill us in on the rest of what happened.
Kayla Sloan:
Yeah. So I started looking for ways to earn extra income and stumbled upon the world of freelance writing and virtual assistant work. And virtual assistants are basically people who work behind the scenes and help entrepreneurs grow and maintain their businesses. And so I started doing this because I love organizing things and helping people create systems, and really working through some of those problems that entrepreneurs typically struggle with. And after doing it on the side for about 12 months, I was earning the same amount from my part-time business as I was making at my full-time job. So I actually quit my job.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. And now you are growing that into a full-blown consulting firm, which is amazing and something that so many entrepreneurs really need these days.
Kayla Sloan:
Yes. I am so excited about this. So I started training people who wanted to be virtual assistants, but then I realized there was a need on the other side for connecting entrepreneurs with those virtual assistants. I find that a lot of business owners struggle with finding someone they can trust, someone who's already trained and knows how to step in and get to work, and so that's where I try to fill that void.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about what the lesson is for our listeners from this story because you basically were able to stop the emotional spending and then turn that into your motivation to start your own business and basically control your income flow. So what is the lesson for our listeners? And especially, how do you stop that emotional shopping?
Kayla Sloan:
Oh my gosh, stopping the emotional shopping can be so, so hard. But for me it was really about finding something else to fill up my free time, which ended up being my business.
Bobbi Rebell:
So it all came together. So for listeners, what can they do? After shopping, shopping, shopping, how do you come up with something? Do you have a technique? Is it just surfing the internet? What was it that got you this idea?
Kayla Sloan:
Yeah. My first ideas did come from surfing the internet. I did some of those classic things like cutting up the credit cards and putting the rest on ice and all of those kinds of things. And they sound crazy, but they work.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you did those things, and then you just decided that you had to up your income?
Kayla Sloan:
You know, you can only be so frugal. There's only so many things you can cut from your budget, especially if you start to feel deprived. And as a spender, I liked to spend money. I liked my lifestyle, so I decided that I also had to find a way to increase my income because I didn't want to cut anything else from my budget.
Bobbi Rebell:
So your money tip has to do actually with kind of a splurge with things that you already have, which actually is very relatable for many people who get divorced and have a lot of wedding presents that maybe are still unopened, not that I would know anything about that kind of thing. But a lot of times, we get fancy stuff for our weddings or graduations or all kinds of special occasions, and then it just sits there because there's never an occasion that's good enough for this stuff.
Kayla Sloan:
Exactly. That's exactly what I found was, I was going through my divorce, I had all these beautiful that I had received for my wedding, and since I was super broke I didn't have any money to spend. So my tip and the way I that I decided to treat myself, rather than spending is that I started using things I already had. So instead of saving my nice dishes that I got for my wedding and using cheap ones every day, I decided I was going to just use the pretty ones. They make me feel happy.
Bobbi Rebell:
And why not? We're all so busy saving for these magical events that are going to happen, and then we don't ever use all this stuff that we have.
Kayla Sloan:
Exactly. And it just sits there and collects dust, and there's no point in that.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what are some other examples of things that you used that people can relate to?
Kayla Sloan:
I said my nice dishes, and then I also used all of those kitchen appliances that never get brought out. And I decided I was going to make some of my favorite meals instead of saving them for a special occasion or saving them when I had guests over and things like that. I'm a big foodie, so those are probably two of the biggest things for me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let me ask you just quickly, how do people know if they need a virtual assistant? Because I think that's something that confuses people, is where is the tipping point where you're at the point where you need somebody, and are there certain things to look for?
Kayla Sloan:
Yes. So the first sign that you need a virtual assistant is that things start slipping through the cracks. If you find yourself as an entrepreneur or business owner with more things to do than time to do them, then you definitely need to bring someone on. For entrepreneurs, it can be difficult because you don't want to bring someone on and get stuck paying them if you have busy seasons and slow seasons, so a virtual assistant can really help fill that void because you can kind of pay as you go; pay for a certain number of hours per month, and then if you have extra work, you can buy some more. So it's a lot easier than hiring an employee for a set number of hours no matter what.
Bobbi Rebell:
And what are some specific things that people can outsource to a VA?
Kayla Sloan:
A lot of people start with social media because they find that social media is something that takes up a lot of their time and can easily be outsourced to a virtual assistant. I know a lot of other things are blog post research; sometimes they'll bring on someone to do outlines and things like that. And then also a lot of people who have podcasts use virtual assistants, hint hint.
Bobbi Rebell:
For what kinds of things?
Kayla Sloan:
They will help with show note creation, transcription. They can help with, again, social media when it comes to your podcast as well, so a lot of different things.
Bobbi Rebell:
And what do VAs typically run? What's the range that people would expect to pay?
Kayla Sloan:
For a U.S.-based virtual assistant -- which I think is important to make that clarification -- you're probably going to be looking at as little as $15, but probably as much as $40 or more if you have someone who's very experienced.
Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about where people can find you and the kind of things that you are doing, and how people can use your services.
Kayla Sloan:
Sure. My main website is at kaylasloan.com, and that is where you can find out more information about how to work with me to get connected with a virtual assistant. Or if you're wanting to be a virtual assistant, we can connect there as well. And I'm also all over social media.
Bobbi Rebell:
And your handles?
Kayla Sloan:
Are all the same: @kayla-r-sloan.
Bobbi Rebell:
Kayla R. Sloan, very important. Well, thank you so much, Kayla Sloan. This has been absolutely wonderful, and congratulations on your growing business.
Kayla Sloan:
Thank you so much. I hope you have a great day.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so here's my take. I love what Kayla is doing for entrepreneurs and for the virtual assistants that are so important to their success. Financial Grownup tip number one: consider outsourcing. Whether or not you are an entrepreneur, think about the value of your time. If you're running a business, maybe you're running a household, consider the best use of your time. Outsourcing may be hiring a babysitter if you're a parent trying to grow a business from home, or if you're an entrepreneur trying to do everything. Sometimes you're better off doubling down on your strength, say sales, or anything that directly has to do with your clients, and it may make sense to have a VA do things that are more administrative in nature, like the billing. Weigh the cost. The great thing about a VA is that you can often hire them on a project basis, so you're not locked in the way you would be if you hired a full-time assistant.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: I love Kayla's money tip to use what you have, even if it's super fancy. But here's my tip if you don't have all that fancy stuff but want to have the fancy stuff and maybe don't have the budget or want to spend the money to go and buy it in the store. You see all that fancy wedding gifts like China and crystal, well a lot of people don't really want it, or they inherited it and they want to sell it, they get rid of it, they just don't use it. So you can often get great stuff, fancy stuff, far less than the everyday stuff if you know where to look. Who doesn't like to feel fancy, right?
Bobbi Rebell:
So some sites to check out: Replacements.com -- they sell vintage and current dinnerware, crystal, silver, and other collectables. Also take a look at Chairish, like sitting on a chair, chairish.com. You can find vintage dinnerware at really amazing prices. They sell a ton of other stuff, including chairs, but also other furniture and vintage stuff; really nice stuff. I spotted a vintage Hermes dinner plate set that retailed for $2,000 and it was down to just 950 bucks. The Real Real, which is known for selling designer handbags and clothing, they also -- a lot of people don't realize this -- they also have things like dishes and serving stuff; high-end names like George Jensen, Tiffany, Vernadeau, all at massive discounts. So check those out if you like the higher end stuff instead of going for the everyday stuff that you may see in, whatever, the mall stores. I don't want to name names, but the everyday stores. You guys know what I'm talking about.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for being part of our growing Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating and even a review on Apple podcasts. I know it seems like it's going to be really difficult, but it only takes a couple of minutes and it is really appreciated, and makes a big difference in helping other people discover the show. And of course, hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any upcoming episodes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Please follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1; you can also DM me there. And then don't forget, if you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show, join the competition. Share the videos when you see them. You can even see them now on the YouTube channel that we have set up, so just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, that channel on YouTube, and you can see the promos there and check them out that way.
Bobbi Rebell:
We have our first listener episode coming up in June. If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us info@financialgrownup.com. Tell us what money story you would share, and what everyday money tip you would like to share with our audience, and we will be in touch if you are chosen.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to Kayla Sloan for sharing her story. We'll be watching how her business grows along with all the entrepreneurs that she is working with. So thank you, Kayla, for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownup.
Announcer:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
Entrepreneur and influencer Amanda Abella found out she was underpaid and often overlooked. But when she started playing hardball in negotiations with a really big potential client, she and her agent did not get the response they expected.
In Amanda’s money story you will learn:
-All the things Amanda does to have multiple income streams tied to her own personal brand
-The challenges Amanda faced after graduating from college during the recession
-How her first job laid the groundwork for her current career as an entrepreneur
-How she and her agent planned for their negotiation with a potential client
-The pivotal decision that grew her brand ambassador asking rate almost 7 times over by focusing on her unique skillset
-What is a rate sheet, and what brand ambassadors do for clients
-How Amanda researched what was a new market/line of work for her business
-If Amanda has any regrets or things she would do differently in hindsight
In Amanda’s lesson you will learn:
-How she battles her nerves in high stakes negotiations
-Why the number of social media followers are less important than many people believe
-How to get brand partnerships by knowing what matters most to them
In Amanda’s money tip you will learn:
-How to find out about unpromoted discounts at restaurants and fitness clubs like SoulCycle
-How much you can save by using them, even if they are not advertised
-Amanda’s favorite places to get discounts and freebies
-What Amanda got for free recently at SoulCycle
-Why Amanda keeps getting water bottles
In My Take you will learn:
-How to asses what you bring to the market, to better negotiate higher rates
-What to do if you don’t currently have skills that add value to, and command a premium from, the clients you want to attract
-Tips to be more confident in a negotiation
-How the power poses, recommended by Amy Cuddy can give you an instant confidence boost when you really need it
EPISODE LINKS
Amanda’s website: amandaabella.com
Amanda’s podcast
Amanda’s course on becoming an influencer
Follow Amanda!
Twitter @amandaabella
Instagram- make sure to check out her feed AND stories: @amandaabella
Facebook Amanda Abella
Soulcycle.com where Amanda loves to get free stuff!
Check out Amy Cuddy’s Ted Talk!
Transcription
Speaker 1:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.
Speaker 2:
We went to the table with this very high number expecting them to push back on it and they didn't. Not even one peep. Not one question, not one push back. They were just like OK sign on the dotted line.
Bobbi Rebell:
Your listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup and you know what being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's OK. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We've got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you like making money and want to know how to make more and ideally from different sources you are in the right place with our guests. Before we get to her though we've been getting a lot of new listeners so I want to just welcome all of you to the show and of course thank you so much to our returning listeners. So glad you are here. And if you have friends or family that you think would enjoy the show please tell them about it. Also the video promos everyone is asking about. So glad you guys like them. If you want one for your business or just for you we're having a little competition. I'm going to make one for a listener. All you have to do is share the promo videos on social media, starting now until July 1st whoever shares the most wins. I will announce the winner the first week in July.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Now to my friend and guest Amanda Abella. Besides the fact that for some reason her Instagram stories seem to be more entertaining than most TV shows she's hard to label because she does as she says all the things. Amanda is all about multiple income streams. She has a book Make Money or Honey, an award winning blog. She has been a brand ambassador for big names like Capitol One and [Into It 00:02:05]. She teaches millennials how to be entrepreneurs and influencers just like her and she will soon be bringing back her popular podcast. Here is Amanda Abella.
Bobbi Rebell:
Amanda Abella, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Amanda Abella:
Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm so psyched to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
And we've got to hang out and get to know each other recently at the Statement event in upstate New York. That was awesome.
Amanda Abella:
It was so much fun. I needed that so bad. You have no idea.
Bobbi Rebell:
I think we all did. I learned a lot about you. I mean you do all the things Amanda. All the things.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah all the things, literally all the things. I like my money coming from different places.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, multiple revenue streams, you're an entrepreneur, you're an author, your bestselling book is Make Money or Honey. And you also have an amazing social media feed that we were all gushing over at the retreat, especially your Insta Stories. You also are an influencer, you even have a course on how to be an influencer and you're a brand ambassador.
Amanda Abella:
Yup I literally do all the things.
Bobbi Rebell:
All the things.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah. What happened with me was you know I graduated during the recession and I just kind of learned really early on to always have your money coming from different places and then I was a recruiter for two years and I interviewed people who lost their jobs all the time. So I was like you always need to have multiple sources of income because if one thing doesn't work out like you get fired, well you still have money coming in from this other place so it started as a survival mechanism and now it's just a wealth building strategy.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wise words my friend. And one of your multiple income streams that is growing is your brand ambassador business. And that brings us to your money story that has to do with a big new client that almost wasn't as big as you wanted it to be. Tell us.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah so what happened there was I started getting approached a lot more for brand ambassador work. And first of all I had no idea how much money you could make doing this stuff because I was just having so much fun. I didn't know what the market rates were. I didn't know how to negotiate these situations. I didn't know anything about the contracts. But I started getting approached for this kind of work. So I went to go find myself an agent because I was like I need help. And the agent trained me a little bit on what to do in the meetings and all those kinds of things. And we were negotiating with this really big client. It was the first time I was going to do something of that magnitude and we were trying to figure out my rate sheet.
Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of business was the client in? Can you tell us anything about it?
Amanda Abella:
Financial software.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Amanda Abella:
So we were trying to figure out my rate sheet for all the different deliverables and things like that because that's how green I was right, like I didn't even have a rate sheet.
Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of deliverables would be on the rate sheet?
Amanda Abella:
You know media appearances, social media posts, blog posts, e-mail blasts, Twitter chats, all that type of stuff, all the different things that they ask you to do. I was so green I didn't even have a rate sheet for these things. And we were trying to figure that out at the same time while negotiating with this particular client.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you even start? Is there some kind of a standard place you can go and get that information?
Amanda Abella:
So what really helped me was asking a lot of my friends who were already doing that kind of work. And that's actually how I found out that for many years I have been low balling myself just because I didn't know, like I had no idea. I had no idea I could get paid what they were getting paid and then also one of those friends is the one who connected me with my agent and my agent who has been doing this for a very long time she kind of schooled me on how much money I was leaving on the table. So that was really helpful for me too. So that's how I found out personally.
Amanda Abella:
So what was going on was when we were trying to figure out the rate sheet we were trying to figure out the numbers and I went pretty high on this client to the point where my agent who you know she was doing her job. She's coming from many years of experience was like are you sure you want to do that because you're still pretty green, like do you want to go that high. And I thought to myself well you know what I may be green in terms of working on these big campaigns but I've got plenty of years of blogging experience. I have a pretty big social media following, they're pretty engaged. I'm bilingual. You know I bring things to the table that they need. So let's just go high and see what happens. She agreed. So we went to the table with this very high number expecting them to push back on it and they didn't.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Amanda Abella:
Not even one peep, not one question, not one push back. They were just like OK sign on the dotted line.
Bobbi Rebell:
So but here is the question Amanda. Knowing what you know now would you have gone higher?
Amanda Abella:
Well I was already pretty high for me. I mean my agent was to the point where she was like congratulations you just gave yourself a bonus of thousands of dollars for this kind of work. Good job negotiating that one. So I thought about that and for this particular client no because that was already super high for me to begin with. But-
Bobbi Rebell:
How much of a percentage higher was it than you kind of thought you were getting or that you were getting before?
Amanda Abella:
It was way more than double. It was like six or seven times more what I was getting previously.
Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa. OK. I'm sorry go on.
Amanda Abella:
So then having learned from that experience which was also my first experience like being in those meetings with an agent and learning those sort of nuances when you're in those situations with PR teams and things like that it was definitely a real lesson and you know confidence sells. Number one. And number two, fake it till you make it if you have to.
Bobbi Rebell:
But you actually came, you weren't really faking it because it sounds like when you went to them you had very specific reasons why you were worth what you were asking.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah but it doesn't mean I wasn't nervous.
Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.
Amanda Abella:
I think people think that you walk into these situations and you're like fearless and you're not, you're just pretending not to be fearless which is where the confidence comes in. But you're right I did have specific experience and specific angles and specific things that I knew they wanted for this specific campaign and I definitely used it to my advantage. And like I said my agent agreed. So you know on the mere fact that I was bilingual I can get more money just because I'm bilingual and living in a city like Miami where everybody is bilingual I forget that that's actually a really valuable asset that I could get paid a lot more money for.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners who may not all be social media all stars and brand influencers, brand ambassadors, how can they apply this to their own lives?
Amanda Abella:
I think it's realizing that there is a lot of talk about the influence that you have in the social media numbers. They're really not that important. One of the things my students tell me all the time is I had no idea that I could get that kind of work with 3000 followers on my Instagram feed or a thousand people on an email list. They all go into my program assuming that they need you know tens of thousands or 100000 followers to get really good brand partnerships and what they don't realize is that brand partnerships are looking more for unique angles and engagement more than they're looking for the actual numbers. Because I mean you could pay to get followers and brands know it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. I want to move on to your money tip because this one is going to be a huge hit with our listeners. I love it because you're going to spill some secrets for us. What's your money tip Amanda?
Amanda Abella:
So my secret is all about the rewards programs that restaurants are really bad at marketing.
Bobbi Rebell:
Therefore they are secrets, they're sort of open secrets that nobody knows about.
Amanda Abella:
So if you frequent certain places and certain restaurants, I've noticed it's definitely more with the chain restaurants. A lot of times they have apps and on those apps they have rewards programs or loyalty programs or referral programs. So for example I go to a specific juice bar pretty often after I work out. I learned recently that they had an app where I could get like 10 percent off my [inaudible 00:10:13]after spending a certain amount or if I refer friends I get three dollars off my next juice. I had no idea because they hadn't actually like said anything to me, I just happened to see a, I saw a little thing on the napkin holder and then a friend also told me he was like you don't know that they have an app.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's so random.
Amanda Abella:
So my tip is not only to use the apps and find them but ask to see if they're even available because like I said they don't necessarily do a really good job of telling their customers that these things exist. Unless you're Starbucks.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, Starbucks is pretty aggressive about promoting their app. But other companies maybe not so. And if you take the time just like with so many of the money tips that we talk about here if you take the time to focus and learn about these programs, ask about them, you will benefit.
Amanda Abella:
Yep, it's all about asking.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what's the best deal you've ever gotten through an app?
Amanda Abella:
Hmm well I'm getting 10 percent off my [inaudible 00:11:07]now. So that's pretty good.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Pretty good.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah I'm kind of addicted to them to be honest so I would say that's the best one although I would say probably my best deals have been through the Soul Cycle app.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh OK.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah. So I do Soul Cycle. You know if you sign up for like certain challenges, if you're working out already anyway, you sign up for certain challenges or certain themed rides or they'll have certain promotions going on. Like I walked in yesterday and they gave me like a bag of free stuff because I'm partaking in this certain challenge and I've been tracking it you know on the app and then once I get to a certain amount of rides which the app tracks then I get a free ride. So that's probably the one that has saved me the most money because Soul Cycle is not cheap.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, can we just back up here because I really want to hear about the free stuff. What was in the free stuff bag from Soul Cycle?
Amanda Abella:
Yeah. So I got a bag. I got like a top to work out in. I got a water bottle. People just keep giving me water bottles lately, I have a whole collection of them.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah water bottles are, we got water bottles on the retreat.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah. I was joking with my roommate I was like I lose one water bottle and require another four no matter-
Bobbi Rebell:
I know, I know. I am very excited about the Soul Cycle free stuff though. You have delivered, that alone Amanda, you scored. I want to talk about you because one of the things that happened on the retreat was you made a decision to pick something up that I loved. I loved your podcast and I'm so happy that you're going to bring it back.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah so I'm bringing my podcast back after much deliberation and I really want to thank Statement and all the women who attended it and all the tips you gave me Bobbi because I've been studying your podcast since I got back.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you.
Amanda Abella:
I was like Bobbi is on point. Bobbi knows what she's doing. I'm going to take some notes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you.
Amanda Abella:
So I'm bringing my podcast back. It's coming back in July and it's going to alternate between solo episodes where I'm answering a lot of my audience questions about you know business, online marketing, negotiating, making money, all those types of things and then I'm also going to be bringing on a lot of guests so a lot of the women who were at the retreat have actually already signed up to be on the podcast so I'll be interviewing them. It will be a lot of fun and I'm trying to really bring as much diversity as I can to the conversation. So a lot of women, a lot of people of color. I'm Latina so that's something that really matters to me. One of the things I've heard so much from people is how sometimes it's hard for them to really relate to a lot of the mainstream financial advice that's out there because these people just you know either don't look like them or don't have the same experience as them. So I'm trying to bring as much diversity to the conversation as I can.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well thank you for that. I'm working on that here too. So I think we are hopefully on a good path with all that. Where can people find you, especially your Insta Stories which we're all obsessed with.
Amanda Abella:
Yeah my Insta Stories are a lot of fun. You guys can go watch me freak out over seeing snow for the first time on my Insta. Bobby was there for that. So you could go to Amanda Abella. That's my Twitter and my Instagram, I'm all over those all day long. You could also go to my Web site amandaabella.com or you could find my podcast, previous episodes of my podcast. So they're on iTunes, Stitcher, I Heart Radio, Spotify, YouTube, just search make money or honey or my name.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you Amanda.
Amanda Abella:
Thanks so much for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so here's my take on what Amanda had to say. Financial grownup tip number one. Take a moment and write down the skills that you have that are unique, things you can use as leverage to get more money in a negotiation. So in Amanda's case one thing that she is is Latina, she's also bilingual. If you can't think of something, become something. Learn a skill that will set you apart from others. Invest in yourself in a specific intentional way that will give you a foundation to command higher compensation. Focus on the skills that are most in demand but still hard to find in your field.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Amanda talked about the fact that confidence sells and that you have to sell yourself. She did OK when she waited for businesses to come to her but her business really took off when she took control and became proactive. Find a way to appear confident even if you're having jitters inside like Amanda admits she sometimes does. If you need to just leave the room to gather your thoughts if you're getting nervous during a negotiation. Maybe do some power poses. Look up a TED talk by a woman named Amy Cuddy. I'll put it in the show notes and you will see what I mean. I've done it myself and it really works.
Bobbi Rebell:
We have our first listener episode coming up in June. If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share email us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us what story you want to share and what your everyday money tip would be if you are chosen. Thank you all for being part of our financial grownup community. If you enjoy the show consider leaving a rating and review on Apple podcasts and of course hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any episodes. Follow me on Twitter @BobbiRebell. On Instagram I am @BobbiRebell1. Don't forget to DM me with your feedback about the show. I love hearing from everyone.
Bobbi Rebell:
And also if you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show join the competition. Share the videos when you see them on social media. Retweet, repost and so on. You can even see them by the way on YouTube now. We will pick a winner by July 1st. So look for us to move forward in early July. Amanda is amazing. I'm excited for her podcast to come back so make sure to watch her social channels for updates on that. Great episode. And thank you Amanda for giving us the confidence to ask for what we deserve and sometimes even more than we think we can get. Helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.
Jen Hemphill and her husband believe in supporting family, but when the author of Her Money Matters, and the host of the podcast of the same name, was asked to lend money to a relative, she realized it would come at a cost to her own financial well being.
In Jen’s money story you will learn:
-How she and her husband have different approaches to helping family financially
-The role emotions play in decisions about lending and/or giving to family
-The impact Jen’s upbringing and her parents attitudes towards money played in her approach to lending and gifting money to family
-How communication issues can impact financial decisions
In Jen’s money lesson you will learn:
-Jen’s advice in how to respond when family needs financial help
-How you can prepare to be able to help family when it is needed
-How to stay on track with your own goals, even if family needs help
-Why Jen feels it is always better to gift than to lend to family
In Jen’s money tip you will learn:
-The specific strategy she uses to separate funds and save for goals
-How she applies her strategy of separate funds when it comes to every day savings at places like the grocery store
-How to use apps to facilitate using her strategy to save money
In my take you will learn:
-What to keep in mind when friends and relatives ask you for help
-Strategies to have money available for that purpose
-How to say no when helping financially is not in your budget
EPISODE LINKS
Get Jen’s new book!
Her Money Matters: The missing truth from traditional money advice
Follow Jen!
Twitter: @jenhemphilll
IG: @jenhemphill
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/jennifer.hemphill
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from Transferwise, the cheaper way to send money abroad, built by the brand behind Skype. Transferwise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Don't get sting by a bad exchange rate, or sneaky fees, join the two billion people who are already saving with Transferwise. Test it out for free at transferwise.come/podcast, or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.
Jen Hemphill:
We lent him the money, or actually gave him the money, and never saw it back. We had debt. We had things that we needed to pay for, things that we needed to purchase, and it also diminished our abilities to have that extra money to pay the debt that we had. Right? It was a very conflicting time.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Thanks for joining us for this addition of the Financial Grownup Podcast. Before we get to our amazing guest, I am getting great feedback from all of you about these video promotions that we have been running to support the show, and you're asking me a bunch of questions, so I'm going to answer a few of them here. The first question everyone is asking me is, who is making them for me, who did I hire? I didn't hire anyone, I'm doing them myself. As you guys know, I love to learn new things, different technology, different programs, so I taught myself how to do them, and I'm having a great time.
Bobbi Rebell:
Second question, I keep being asked is, where can I get them made for myself? Well, I am not going to go into the video promotion business, I'm just going to be doing it for Financial Grownup, at least for now, never say never. But in answer to the request, I am going to run a fun contest. For the next month or so, until early July. The first week in July, let's say, we are going to have a competition, where if you see the video promotions for Financial Grownup on social media share them, and whoever shares the most by the first week in July, I will make a video promotion for you. It can be for your business, it can be for an event that's coming up, it can just be for you, it can be a birthday message for a friend, or for your child. Whatever it is, anything reasonable we will make a fun video, and that will be my gift to you guys.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Onto our guest, Jen Hemphill. She is the host of the podcast, Her Money Matters, and the author of a new book by the same name. She is a big believer in helping family, but as a money expert she's also aware that sometimes those asked to give money may not really be in the best position themselves to be the ones giving. What do you do? Here is Her Money Matters, Jen Hemphill ... Jen Hemphill, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Jen Hemphill:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi. I'm excited to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited to hear more about your new book, Her Money Matters, which of course same title as your amazing podcast. Tell us just briefly about it, and we'll talk more about it after your story.
Jen Hemphill:
Sure. Basically, the whole premise of the book is to give more of a holistic approach to personal finance. It's not a book that's going to tell you how to budget, how to get out of debt, but really it's about the missing pieces that a lot of people don't talk about, because all we hear about save more, spend less, and get out of debt, but there's the emotional component of money that I dig a lot into, as well. It's really more the missing pieces, that is really not talked about, in general.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I want to get to your money story, because it has to do a lot with emotion, and the feelings behind when you gift, or lend money to friends, and family, because they can be sometimes the same things, sometimes lending becomes a gift, and you and your husband have very different approaches to it. Tell us about the first time this came up.
Jen Hemphill:
Well, the first time this came up was when we were first married, so this was almost, we'll be married almost 18 years, so this was-
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations.
Jen Hemphill:
Our first, oh, thank you. This was our first year in our marriage. We're a military family, we were stationed in Clovis Air Force Base in New Mexico.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Jen Hemphill:
First year married, we were really still trying to get to know each other, all the newlywed stuff. He got a call from my brother-in-law, and he, my brother-in-law apparently had hit a financial hiccup, and he reached out to his brother for help. Now, I grew up in a household that was very giving. My parents literally grew up in Columbia, and they always helped people. There was always people that would stay at our home, with their family, or some friends. My parents were always givers, even when they didn't have to give. Right?
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Jen Hemphill:
I saw that a lot growing up. I knew the financial struggles that they dealt with.
Bobbi Rebell:
We're they dealing with financial struggles because they gave more than they could afford?
Jen Hemphill:
I don't think it was that-
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Jen Hemphill:
That might have been a component, but not all of the components. Right? But it was partial, because I saw them giving, and giving, but they were still trying to get their money stuff together. Right? I saw a lot of that. When I met my husband, one of the things that I love about him is his big heart. He is definitely a giver. He's also a spender.
Bobbi Rebell:
Are you the saver to a spender, by the way?
Jen Hemphill:
Yeah. I'm also a saver.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Jen Hemphill:
When my brother-in-law reached out to him, we had the conversation, granted again, we were newlyweds. We were trying to figure this thing out, and I can't remember the exact $1.00 amount, but it was more than $500.00.
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you know what kind of situation it was? Was it like a medical operation? Was it a business situation?
Jen Hemphill:
It was behind on bills, collections. Those type of things.
Bobbi Rebell:
Your husband wanted to give him a loan, not a gift a loan?
Jen Hemphill:
Well, he told me a loan, but I knew him.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Jen Hemphill:
He's a giver. He's not going to expect it back. Where I was more, in my mind, a lender. If you're asking us to lend you money, I'm like, “Okay. You're going to pay us back.” We had debt. We had things that we needed to pay for. Things that we needed to purchase. Literally, at that time we just had our checking account, and our savings account and literally whatever savings went into our savings account, so it was the emergency account, it was when we overspent, it was for big purchases, so everything that was needed that wasn't in our checking account came from the emergency fund. It literally got depleted fast, and it also diminished our abilities to have that extra money to pay the debt that we had. Right? It was a very conflicting time. We had this conversation-
Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:07:19]-
Jen Hemphill:
We lent him the money, or actually gave him the money, and then never saw it back.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. The communication to him, was it, “We are lending you this money,” and he didn't pay it back, or was it, “We are gifting you this money.”
Jen Hemphill:
That's a good question.
Bobbi Rebell:
Good luck with it.
Jen Hemphill:
Because my husband had that conversation with him.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. We can't really blame your brother-in-law, because for all we know he was told it was a gift, to be fair.
Jen Hemphill:
Right.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson, now, 18 years later, you guys happily still together, what is the lesson for our listeners? How would that go now? Would you put your foot down more? What would happen now? What do you think listeners should do? Should they be in a similar situation?
Jen Hemphill:
What we've done is, we included this in our budget, so we set some money aside in a different account, and whenever a family member needs help, we just look at what's in that account, so that way it doesn't really disrupt what we're trying to do financially, and the goals that we're trying to achieve. There's a designated amount that goes in there every month, and currently has just been to help grand mom with some bills, and that's what we work with.
Bobbi Rebell:
It sounds like you've basically come to terms with you're just going to gift it.
Jen Hemphill:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
None of this lending to family, it doesn't work for you.
Jen Hemphill:
Yes, because then emotionally that's either get upset, “Oh, my gosh, we said we were going to lend it, we never got it back,” so I've learned and grownup.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right.
Jen Hemphill:
Over the years to really, when it comes to family, and friends, and when it deals with money, it's just a gift.
Bobbi Rebell:
But your money tip, your every day money tip is also about separating out funds, that seems to be a common theme for you-
Jen Hemphill:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
You want to talk about what you do at the grocery store, and how you can use apps for this.
Jen Hemphill:
Yeah. Basically, my money tip is, what we tend to do, let's say we're at the grocery store, and maybe we have some coupons, always strike up a sale, and we're winning. We celebrate, “Yes. I've saved X amount this trip,” but what's important here is, yes, we can celebrate the $20.00, or $10.00, whatever that amount is that we saved, but what are we going to do with that money? Because we're missing out if we're just celebrating it, that we saved that money, but we're not doing anything with it.
Jen Hemphill:
Literally, we have the bank up on our phone. Right? And with so many people having smart phones, you can download your bank app, and whatever that amount of money that you save, transfer it to your savings, or transfer it to pay off some debt. Whatever you deem is best in your situation. But doing that versus just leaving it in there, you know it disappears. That money doesn't have a job, if you will, it just disappears. We've seen it time and again. I know I've experienced it, I'm sure you Bobbi have experienced it yourself.
Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. All right. Let's talk more about your book. I'm so excited for you.
Jen Hemphill:
The book, oh, my goodness. The subtitle of the book is, The Missing Truths From Traditional Money Advice, so when we think of traditional money advice, we think about, we really hear, “Save more, spend less, and get out of debt,” but I know from my own experience, I had the financial books, I've read those financial books, I applied what the experts told me, and I was still finding myself stuck. In the book, I really share the lessons that I learned, and what I found out that really kept me stuck after doing all the things right.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Where can people find you?
Jen Hemphill:
Thank you. You can find all about me at jenhemphill.com. You can find the book there, or you can just go on Amazon, and just type in, Her Money Matters. It also has a companion workbook, because-
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.
Jen Hemphill:
My audience wanted worksheets, and so they ask, I provide. Each chapter has some questions, some worksheets for you to work with, because essentially I want that to be your cheat sheet. If you're feeling stuck, go back to that work, and go back to that workbook, if you buy the workbook, and refer to that, because that's going to help you get out of that funk that you're feeling.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that balance between emotional and then very specific practical tools. It's great. Thank you, Jen.
Jen Hemphill:
Thank you, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Jen's story was a reminder that family really can be everything, however you define family. We should bend over backwards to help out the people that we care about in our lives. In Jen's case even though her brother-in-law did not pay back that loan, as time went on the asks for financial help from family did go down.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip, number one, remember it's hard for people to ask you for help, so factor that in when deciding what to do when someone comes to you asking for help. If you are able to help them with their financial troubles, it's usually a better idea to just give them money. If you lend them money, it becomes yet another thing that they need to pay back in a very stressful time. Of course, it can also put stress on your relationship with them. They might avoid you. They might feel like you're judging them, if they buy something. It's better to just keep it clean, give them the money. You know what? Someday you may be in a position where you need their help, and they'll be there for you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip, number two. Jen talked about compartmentalizing money. Setting funds aside in different accounts for different purposes. This can be a great way to deliberately save for certain things like a slush fund for relatives that need help. Another thing that I have found can make a lot of sense to do is to put a certain amount of money, or allocate a certain amount of money, maybe on an annual basis to support friends, charities, causes that they care about.
Bobbi Rebell:
That way when people ask for you to support whatever they're involved in, it might be a charity run, or some other fundraising effort, a benefit, you can take the money out of that fund, and if at some point in the year, I mean, you got to be real, here, the funds could run out, you can tell them, “Look, I've completed my giving for the year, but I will send a donation in January.” People understand. Your resources are not unlimited even if your heart is.
Bobbi Rebell:
If you have not hit the subscribe button, please do so that way you won't miss any upcoming episodes of Financial Grownup, and of course you score extra bonus points with us if you rate and review the show. That way other people can learn about it, and be part of our community. Our first listener episode is coming up in June, if you want to be considered to be on an upcoming episode of Financial Grownup, email the money story, and the money tip that you would like to share to info@financialgrownup.com. We are going to see how it goes, and hopefully we'll be doing this once a month.
Bobbi Rebell:
A reminder, if you want to see the promo videos, they are sprinkled throughout our social media, and also we are putting them on our new YouTube channel, which is Financial Grownup, so you can easily just check them out there. You can also see our episodes there, you can listen to them I should say on YouTube as well. In social media, I am on Instagram, at Bobbi Rebell one, on Twitter at Bobbi Rebell, and on Facebook, Bobbi Rebell. Definitely DM me, give me feedback, let me know what you think about the show, let me know guests you want to see, and let me know which promo videos you like the best.
Bobbi Rebell:
Of course, speaking of the promo videos, as I said at the top of the show, if you want a promo video for yourself, share them, retweet them, repost them, and whoever does the most social sharing between now and the beginning, the first week of July, I'm going to make a promo video for you. Jen's story was a great one, all about doing our best for our family, and our friends, and the people that we care about in our lives, such an important topic, so thank you, Jen, for helping us get one step closer to being Financial Grownups ... Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited, and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City.
In Kristin’s money story you will learn:
-How she made her first art sale while working in advertising
-The hashtags she used to attract a buyer to her work
-The price of the first piece of art she sold
-Why so much of Kristin’s work is tied to money and consumerism
-Her take on millennials attitudes about money and materialism
-Kristin’s background and how it led her to her career as an artist
-How the art world works when artists use galleries, versus when they self-promote on social media
-How you can buy art that is affordable
In Kristin’s money lesson you will learn:
-Her advice on how to follow your dreams, and still pay your bills
-Ways to use social media to leverage your skills and the content you create
-Pricing strategies for art
In Kristin’s money tip you will learn:
-How having the right basic ingredients at home will help you make more meals at home, and save money
-Kristin’s favorite 5 foods to have on hand
-Where Kristin goes for her recipes
In My Take you will learn:
-How to buy art as an investment
-When to use a gallery and when to seek out an artist directly
-How to use social media to research and find art to buy
-Why insurance needs should always be considered when you buy art
You will also learn how you can win a promotional video, like the ones for financial grownup for your own business- or just for yourself.
EPISODE LINKS
Kristin Simmons website: https://www.kristinsimmonsart.com/
The name of the arts gala she is performing at on June 7th is ChaShaMa: https://www.chashama.org/event/gala2018
This summer Kristin’s art can be seen at Galerie Mourlot (https://mourloteditions.com/) as part of the Hamptons art fair (http://artmarkethamptons.com/) in early July.
Research and buy art on some of Kristin’s favorite sites:
Mourlot editions
Wide Walls
Art Space
Paddle8.com
Also mentioned: RealSimple.com
Follow Kristin!
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/kristinsimmonsart/?hl=en
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/kristinsimmonsart/?ref=bookmarks
Twitter https://twitter.com/Kristins_Art
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristin-simmons-07596031/
An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn which hashtags to use to attract buyers on instagram and how you can follow your dreams while still paying the bills. #MoneyTips #Hashtags #Instagram #AttractBuyers
An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn which hashtags to use to attract buyers on instagram and how you can follow your dreams while still paying the bills. #MoneyTips #Hashtags #Instagram #AttractBuyers
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
... simpler for financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.
Kristin Simmons:
I do these pieces of old stock certificates, which is ironic because it's basically dead money, and I started drawing these Mad Men characters on them with these Lichtensteinesque bubbles and stock quotes coming out of their heads, and I posted one on Instagram, and I hashtagged the name of a company, and someone reached out to me and said, "Hey, my dad used to own that company. Can I buy that piece of art from you?"
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone, before I tell you about this week's guest, I want to let you know I have a big announcement coming up after the interview, and it has to do with something that you're all asking me about, the video promos that we put out with each episode, and how you can get them for you or your business, so stay tuned for that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest. You heard her talking about her first sale. Want to know how much that first piece of art sold for? Well, stay with us here. The number surprised me. Artist Kristin Simmons incorporates themes of money and consumerism into her work in thought provoking and frankly sometimes polarizing ways, but she doesn't moralize. She's won a number of awards, including the National Endowment of the Arts award. Kristin grew up in New York, and her work has been informed by the city's culture, which can be a bit over the top when it comes to money here in New York City. She actually started her postcard career working in advertising doing art as her side hustle. She was able to have a studio area in her apartment, in part because of her early decision to buy an apartment at the age of 23. Being realistic, she did not see it as something that she could do for a living, especially in New York, that is, being a full-time artist. That is, until her Instagram feed prompted her very first sale. Here is artist Kristin Simmons.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kristin Simmons. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Kristin Simmons:
Thanks very much, Bobbi. I'm so happy to be here today and talk with you.
Bobbi Rebell:
I recruited you because you are a rising star artist, and you focus so much on money and finance related iconography and themes, a little bit polarizing sometimes. Tell us briefly about your art.
Kristin Simmons:
Definitely. So, my art is very much focused on consumerism and the idea of what money can do for us, both its privileges and its dangers that it has.
Bobbi Rebell:
What inspired you? Can you tell us a little bit more about it?
Kristin Simmons:
My art is really inspired by the time I grew up in the late 80s, early 90s, when Reaganomics was really in full swing, and the market was booming, and I think a lot of millennials have certain mindsets or proclivities about spending and money because of how we were raised from a subconscious age.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you were raised to be very aware of money. Tell us your money story.
Kristin Simmons:
Sure. I do these pieces of old stock certificates, which is ironic because it's basically dead money. These are stocks that people were issued pre-Quotron machine in the 60s and 70s, and I started drawing these Mad Men characters on them with these Lichtensteinesque bubbles and stock quotes coming out of their heads, and I posted one on Instagram, and I hashtagged the name of a company, and someone reached out to me and said, "Hey, my dad used to own that company. Can I buy that piece of art from you?"
Bobbi Rebell:
That's crazy.
Kristin Simmons:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
Can you tell us how much you sold that first piece for?
Kristin Simmons:
The first piece I sold for $750.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's nice.
Kristin Simmons:
Yeah, it's great, and it was a unique work, so now the work has escalated to a greater price, but my prints still go for around that. I'm a big believer in trying to make original art at a price where people who are saving can afford it and also can compound over time if an artist does well in their career, but it was an amazing moment, and it really spurred me to think, okay, how can I hedge my marketing experience and maybe I'm onto an idea here that other people are interested in.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's so interesting. How much of your art sales are tied to social media, as opposed to people discovering it, because I do know you do have showings in traditional art galleries.
Kristin Simmons:
At the beginning, they were almost all tied to social media. Now I'd probably say about 30 percent.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's so interesting. So, your Instagram and social media basically is disrupting, I mean, not just yours but Instagram in general and social media is disrupting the art world in a way that I don't it is being talked about that much. It's fascinating.
Kristin Simmons:
Yeah. And it has been for a while, and other websites, too, that are more run by artists or artist run galleries, where they don't take as big of a commission. It's still a very okay market, the art world, and I don't even profess to know that much about it. I learn more every day, but I also kind of find it interesting because of that aspect and because of it's so involving and there are no set rules quote-unquote.
Bobbi Rebell:
What would be the lesson for people, you got noticed simply by being proactive on social media, and being compelling. I mean, your Instagram is really good.
Kristin Simmons:
Thank you. I would say everyone has something to share. Everyone has a story to share or something that's unique or special about them, and don't be afraid to have that voice. Yeah, you may get criticized for it. There will always be people who don't like what you're saying or think that your work or your voice is crap, but that's just one of the evils of the web, so again, I would just say be confident, and just start creating content or posting things or looking into things that interest you and be vocal about that.
Bobbi Rebell:
And if you're approached about selling something, how do you even know where to begin with the pricing?
Kristin Simmons:
For sure, sure. So that's a question I get all the time, and there's a simple answer and a not simple answer. The simple answer is what's my time, my hourly rate into making something, what are the material costs, and what is the idea worth. That's kind of a simple formula, and how you figure out what an idea is worth is a little more complicated obviously. Pricing for artists is very much set by themselves. It's a market that they set based on what the value they think their work is. For me, it's slightly gone up over time because I've had option results, I've had museum shows, and yeah, I kind of started at, again, that formula of idea, time, plus materials, and now once you gain additional credentials, you are then advised by galleries to adjust the numbers accordingly.
Bobbi Rebell:
And, of course, the galleries take 50 percent. Have to remember that.
Kristin Simmons:
Exactly.
Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about the money tip that you have brought with you because it's something that so many of us can benefit from, and it has to do with saving money by cooking, and you talk about the five ingredients. What do we need? Help us, Kristin. Help us.
Kristin Simmons:
Oh, my God, definitely. I mean, cooking's a great way to save money, and since I work from home, I cook all the time. Five ingredients. There are a bunch of different combinations, but the ones I like are eggs, spinach, rice, avocado and olive oil.
Bobbi Rebell:
Why those, and what do you make with those?
Kristin Simmons:
So, they're full of anti-oxidants and omega threes, most of those ingredients, and what I typically make is, I'll make like a kimchi bowl, Korean style, with rice, and I'll put an egg on top of it, and then you just throw some vegetables in it and some olive oil. It's a really healthy meal. It's very low cost to buy those ingredients, and it keeps you full for most of the day and kind of keeps your brain working and your body feeling good.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you get the recipes? Do you have any websites you recommend?
Kristin Simmons:
Yeah, Real Simple has actually a great cookbook. I think theirs is like 30 ingredients or something under 30 dollars that you can buy. I sometimes get recipes, I sign up for the self.com newsletter, even though I don't read their magazine. They often have good recipes, but yeah, Real Simple is probably the first place I would look. I really like their recipes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. All right, let's talk more about your art, what inspires you, where you're going to be showing this summer, where people can see it, and all that good stuff.
Kristin Simmons:
Thanks so much, Bobbi, again for having me, and in terms of the summer and what I'm doing, I am going to be part of an art gala on June 7th in New York called [Shamacha 00:08:48]. I'm hoping I'm getting the name right, or the Shamana Gallery.
Bobbi Rebell:
We'll put a link in the show notes.
Kristin Simmons:
It's a benefit hosted by the Durst organization, who gives a lot of money to the arts every year, and I'm going to be kind of doing an interactive performance piece in an office [inaudible 00:09:03] space there, and that'll be the first time I'm doing interactive performance work, so I'm looking forward to that, and then I will also be showing at the Hampton's Art Fair, which is on July 5th, because the 4th falls on a Wednesday, so there's that long weekend that comes back. July 5th to the 8th, the summer with Gallery Mourlot. That's kind of one of the biggest galleries I show with. I'm going to be showing new work there, which I'm really excited about.
Bobbi Rebell:
And where can people find you on social? Especially your Insta, but everywhere.
Kristin Simmons:
Sure. So, it's my name. It's KristinSimmonsArt, so K-R-I-S-T-I-N. Not E-N. S-I-M-M-O-N-S-A-R-T. That's my Instagram, and that's my website, too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you so much.
Kristin Simmons:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. I love that Kristin advocates cooking at home. It's an easy and usually painless way to save money. It's also usually healthier, and she's right. Have five key ingredients at home. Yours might be different from hers, but that is definitely a way to save money. I want to focus on the idea though of buying art as an investment, or maybe just because you like it and want to own some art. So, Financial Grownup tip number one, Kristin pointed out kind of an open secret in the art world. Galleries take 50 percent. So, if an artist is selling work through a gallery, the gallery has costs and plays an important role, and they should get paid, so you got to take that into consideration if you go that route. However, as a buyer, if you know of an artist and you are interested in work that has not been seen at a gallery, you can go to the artist directly and have a lot more flexibility on the price.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to social media, that is easier than ever, and as Kristin mentioned, well, 750 bucks, which is what she got for her first sale is a lot of money for many people. It's also a realistic price point for many people looking to start an art collection. If you're interested in actual places to go to discover artists, I did reach out to Kristin after we taped, and she sent along a few resources. I'll put them in the show notes as well, but she mentions Morlot Editions, I hope I said that correctly, Wide Walls and Art Space for original art. She also says Paddle8 is a great resource where you can even sign up for a payment plan. Prices there range from as little as 75 dollars to 15,000 dollars for most contemporary work. So, 75 bucks, you could do that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. When you do buy art, depending on the value, make sure that you insure it. Art can often be insured just within your home owner's policy or your renter's insurance, but read that policy. You may need to add a floater as a supplement to the policy, and get the work appraised. It's also a good idea to make sure there are photographs of the art, so if something does happen, there are documents to support your claim.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, onto the big announcement. I'm really excited about this. As I said at the top of the show, I keep being asked video promos for the show. Where do I get them made? How can you get one? All that stuff. The secret is I actually make them myself. Even though I was primarily a television anchor and financial journalist in my previous ventures, previous career, I also learned a lot of skills that I now use for things like that. I love making the videos, and I have a lot of fun being creative, and sometimes a little bit silly. So, I've been asked how much I would charge to make them for people, and where someone can hire me, but the truth is I'm not getting into that business. They're not for sale. I've got a lot on my plate with Financial Grownup, and my speaking engagements, and brands that I work with, so that is not going to be my next side hustle, even though a lot of you guys have asked for it.
Bobbi Rebell:
But, I have decided to try an experiment. I am going to give one away to a listener, so here's all you have to do. Between now and let's say July, every time you see me post a video, a promo video on social media, share it, and I will choose the winner based on whoever shared the most videos between now and when I pick the first winner, which again, will be in July. [inaudible 00:13:09] I will make a custom video just for you, or one that you can use promoting your business. We'll work it out. It'll be a lot of fun. I'm really excited.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, all right, thank you all for supporting Financial Grownup, always. Please share this episode, and then the others that you enjoy with your friends on social media, and also, if you have not already, please subscribe so you don't miss any episodes, and this is the big ask. I know they don't make it easy, but it really helps the show get discovered if you rate and review the podcast.
Bobbi Rebell:
More listener involvement, we have just selected our first listener to be a guest. That episode will be coming up in June. I'm excited to share it with you guys. If you want to be considered for the next one, just email us at info@financialgrownup.com. Include the money story and the money tip that you would share if you were selected.
Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about Financial Grownup, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter at bobbirebell. On Instagram at bobbirebell1. On Facebook at Bobbi Rebell. Thanks to Kristin Simmons for inspiring us and showing us all that art can be a profitable side hustle and even your main job, and helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
New dad and financial advisor Kevin Matthews wanted to start teaching his baby about money even before his son was born- and almost missed his birth! But the video evidence of his dedication to the future financial health of his baby is a gift that is truly one of a kind.
In Kevin’s money story you will learn:
-Why he felt so compelled to shoot a video right before his son was born
-The strategy he wanted to share that would make his newborn child a millionaire
-The three specific things he will do to make sure his son is a millionaire
-Why he regrets taping the video
In Kevin’s money lesson you will learn:
-Why planning ahead or recording in advance would have been a better move in retrospect
-How he will alter his strategy with his next child!
In Kevin’s money tip you will learn:
-Why rebalancing a portfolio is essential
-How to tell if you need to rebalance your portfolio
-Exactly what to do if your portfolio is not balanced.
In my take you will learn:
-Why planning for the future sometimes has to take a back seat to focusing on the present
-How to time your financial check ups
Episode Links
Building Bread
Get Kevin’s book Starting Point: How to Create Wealth that Lasts
Watch Kevin’s video series Bread Crumbs
Follow Kevin
Twitter @buildingbread
Instagram @buildingbread
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/BuildingBread/
Email Kevin info@buildingbread.com
Also mentioned
Phroogal
Jason Vitug
The Financial Gym
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at TransferWise.com/Podcast, or download the app.
Kevin Matthews:
I would not do it the same way. That was a huge risk that I took, and I got lucky that I was able just to run back up, and everything was okay, and I was in the right spot, so I probably would not do it again.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with me, certified financial planner, Bobby Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grown Up. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in getting our financial plans together for the future that we miss something super important in the now. For financial advisor, Kevin Matthews II, who runs BuildingBread and is the author of Starting Point, How to Create Wealth That Lasts, making sure he created a video moments before his son was born seemed really important at the time, but looking back, maybe it could have waited. I'll let Kevin fill you in. Here is Kevin Matthews II. Hey, Kevin Matthews. You are a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.
Kevin Matthews:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
We met actually at an event for Phroogal, run by our mutual friend, Jason Vitug. I was so impressed with you, and I went and I ran after you, and said, "I need to rack you down. I need to have you on my podcast." Thank you so much for being here.
Kevin Matthews:
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Bobbi Rebell:
You gave a great presentation, and that's a lot of what you do. You're a financial advisor, but you also do a lot of speaking. You also have BuildingBread is your website, your company, and you are a two time author.
Kevin Matthews:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
We will talk about more about that. That's a little teaser, my friends. We're gonna talk more about Kevin's books and his business in just a few minutes, but first, I want to get to your story, because it has to do with your baby that was just born, your son. By the way, are you a first time father?
Kevin Matthews:
Yes. This is then first time.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations.
Kevin Matthews:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Share our story, because this is very special and very sweet.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Yeah. I do a segment that airs every week, so I do what's called BreadCrumbs, and I give out financial tidbits every Wednesday morning.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where is this, on YouTube, or where can people see it?
Kevin Matthews:
This is primarily on Facebook.
Bobbi Rebell:
On Facebook. Okay.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. I have it in Facebook for my group. It's also on Twitter and through my email list as well. Every week, I get on. We'll talk about what's in the news. I'll give you a few tips and continue that way. So, at the hospital, about two hours before my son was born ... It was Wednesday. I'm a dedicated person, so I was like, "Look. I need to do this, because once he's born, there's no way I'm gonna stay on schedule." So, I ran downstairs. I shot a video on compounding interest and a few tips we were gonna do for my son to make sure that he was gonna become a millionaire.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. You called it Three Things for Your Son to Become a Millionaire.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Three things we were gonna do to make sure my son was a millionaire. So, I went down. I was live in the lobby of the hospital, because I couldn't record in the room. I'm shooting, and I assume at this time my wife has maybe two, three, four hours perhaps before he's born.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no. Kevin, you're a first time father. Babies don't go on your schedule. First lesson.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. I learned. I shoot the video. It takes maybe 15, 20 minutes. I get back in the elevator, and the minute I walk in they say, "Okay. Push." I'm like, "Wait. This is it?"
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
You are so dedicated to your group that you almost missed the birth of your son.
Kevin Matthews:
Yes. I was so dedicated to his future that I almost missed the present. Yeah. I was able to do both. I definitely made it, but had I been maybe 20 minutes later, going down and recording, or had the video been longer or something, I definitely could have missed it. This was in the middle of that last winter snowstorm as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. So, we want everyone to go watch the actual video, but give us some highlights of the advice and the lessons for your newborn son to become a millionaire.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Yeah. It's really getting yourself in position to make sure that he's gonna be taken care of. There's the life insurance piece, and there's the piece that you want to make sure that you're updating all of your recorders, your beneficiaries, all of that, because sometimes when you have a kid, when you get married, when those life changes happen, you want to make sure that everything is in place to have everything updated, so that it reflects your current family situation, which again, is fluid. The second thing that we just did actually was open up an investment account for him and then begin saving for him now, so that when he's in his 30s, maybe even 40s, he will be much farther along than I was or anyone in my family actually.
Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of account was it? It doesn't sound like you're talking about a 529 for school if he's gonna get it in his 30s or 40s.
Kevin Matthews:
Correct. Right now, the first account we opened was a custodial account for him. We may do a 529 plan in the near future, but I started with a custodial account.
Bobbi Rebell:
Very good. The full video available on Facebook. What is the lesson from not just the lessons that you're giving your newborn son, but what is the lesson from this story, where you admitted you didn't really plan well, but you also were really dedicated to your business? So, would you do it again the same way?
Kevin Matthews:
The same way? No. I would not do it the same way. That was a huge risk that I took, and I got lucky that I was able just to run back up, and everything was okay, and I was in the right spot. I probably would not do it again. Definitely planning ahead would have been easier. Probably recording in advance would have been easier as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, but it did have that special live quality as well.
Kevin Matthews:
Yes. It did.
Bobbi Rebell:
It will always have that.
Kevin Matthews:
It worked for that one time, but to risk it twice may not be wise.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, for baby number two more scheduling.
Kevin Matthews:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
You learn and also the lesson is that babies don't keep to grown up time.
Kevin Matthews:
Absolutely.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your money tip. What should people do? This is great advice for anyone, not just parents.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Absolutely. Similar to the previous point, but it's being at the right spot at the right time. The way I look at that is making sure that you are properly balanced. Over the last few years, stocks have been great, and that kind of throws people out of whack. What we do is we tend to say, "Hey. Great. I'm just gonna roll with it. I'm making gains," but that's really the time that you want to go back and rebalance your portfolio, and you want to do it periodically. You want to keep those dates static versus checking in when it's a bad day on the market or just randomly when you're in the mood to.
Bobbi Rebell:
Specially, what does it mean to rebalance your portfolio? How does it suddenly get off balance?
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. It can get off balance when the market changes. For example, if you're someone who has a 50/50 portfolio, you can't to have 50% in stocks, 50% in bonds, if you're someone who's right in the middle, as stocks grow, your portfolio could be 65 or 70% versus 30% because of the growth of the market. You want to go back. That means that you're taking on more risk, so you may want to go back, look at your portfolio, and bring it back down to where it's 50/50, because that's where you should be based on your goals and your risk tolerance.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. All right. Kevin, I want to talk to you about your businesses, because you kind of have a bunch of different things going on, and you're writing books, and you're making videos. Tell us more about what you do.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. At BuildingBread my main goal is to help you set, simplify, and achieve your financial goals. I do that through basic financial education, so I do the videos. I do BreadCrumbs, and I teach courses to make sure that when you're speaking with your financial advisor, when you're trying to figure it out on your own, that you can understand the situation, have a well educated situation, so that you don't feel like people are talking over you or at you.
Bobbi Rebell:
I can speak firsthand. You're a wonderful speaker and presenter, and everyone was mesmerized by what you were saying. I think you got a lot of people to really pay attention to their money and be a lot more deliberate.
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, where can people find you and get in touch if they want you to come to their organization or if they want to follow you on social media?
Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. You can follow me anywhere on social media @BuildingBread. I'm always active there. You can also email me at Info@BuildingBread.com.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much, Kevin Matthews. This has been great.
Kevin Matthews:
Yes. Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Kevin had a lot of great advice. Financial Grown Up tip number one. We spend a lot of time in the personal finance space talking about planning for the future, but by no means should that divert your attention from the present, when things, like the birth of your child, are about to happen. Perspective. It is a great story to tell your kid, but take note. Kevin would not do it again. Let's try to look up from our phones more. I'm right there with you on that one. We may not even realize all the priceless thing we may be missing, and you can't buy more time.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up tip number two. Just like you schedule a doctor's appointment, let's all take Kevin's advice and do a financial check up based not on when something is happening in the market, for example, but on a calendar driven base, so the decisions are based on what is best for you in a proactive way, not a reactive way, or another good time may be when you have a change in circumstance, like having a baby. I don't really do this these days, but I'm gonna think about Kevin's advice and try to be on a more regular schedule with checking in with family, financial planning, and things like that. I think it's a great thing to incorporate in all of our lives.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Kevin, and thanks to all of you for supporting Financial Grown Up. I am starting to get a nice amount of applications for our upcoming once a month listener as guest episodes, so keep them coming. We're gonna have some great stories, and I can't wait to hear yours. Just email us at Info@FinancialGrownUp.com. Tell us the money story and the money tip that you would share if you were chosen.
Bobbi Rebell:
Please continue to share this show with your friends and colleagues to help bring more people into the Financial Grown Up community. Rate and review us on iTunes. That really helps us get noticed, and it is truly appreciated. Follow me on Twitter @BobbyRebell, on Instagram @BobbyRebell1, and you can find me on Facebook @BobbyRebell. Kevin truly brought som fatherly wisdom to our program. Great show, Kevin, and thanks for getting us all one step closer to being Financial Grown Ups. Financial Grown Up with Bobby Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
As a young woman in New York City, Randi Zuckerberg, author of “Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day)" was struggling financially. Her mom, knowing the financial strain, came armed with… luxury goods. Think Jimmy Choo shoes. But as Randi explains, the designer duds were part of a very intentional lesson, that put Randi right on track to being a financial grownup.
In Randi’s money story you will learn:
-How Randi struggled to make ends meet on her first salary of just $28,000
-Why Randi’s mom would take her out and buy her luxury goods, but not help her with her every day expenses
-What Randi did when she literally could not afford to buy a metrocard for the NYC bus and subway
In Randi’s money lesson you will learn:
-How her mother’s strategy helped Randi find her path to financial independence
-If Randi still has all those shoes!
-The one thing Randi would change when she teachers her own children about money
In Randi’s money tip you will learn:
-Why she is paying attention to Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency
-How you can learn more about Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency
In My Take you will learn:
-How to manage social media envy
-The specific thing you can do with your own social media content to improve your experience and that of your friends
-Why and how you can learn more about bitcoin and cryptocurrency
Episode Links:
Learn more about Randi on her website Zuckerbergmedia.com
Get Randi’s book! Pick Three: You Can Have it All, Just Not Every Day
Learn about Cryptocurrency from Randi in this tutorial
Follow Randi!
Facebook Randi Zuckerberg
Instagram @RandiZuckerberg
Twitter @RandiZuckerberg
Also mentioned
Statement Event
Empower App
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.
Randi Zuckerber:
You know, I would turn to her and I would be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope."
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, my friend Randi Zuckerberg is known for a lot of things. It would take an entire podcast to name them all, so some highlights. She is a bestselling author of Dot Complicated, a Broadway actress and singer with a head star in Rock of Ages. She is the founder and CEO of Zuckerberg Media. Randi is also the force behind Sue's Tech Kitchen, she's got her weekly Sirius XM show, and oh, by the way, she created this little thing called Facebook Live. But her most recent project is Pick Three, which is a book about priorities, and with all that Randi has going on you bet she has had to get a handle on how to focus on what matters most, even if that changes every day. Here is Randi Zuckerberg.
Bobbi Rebell:
Randi Zuckerberg, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Randi Zuckerber:
Thanks so much Bobbi, it's great to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
Major congratulations, another, in this case soon-to-be bestseller, your new book Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day). We're going to talk more about that later on, but just high level, this is something you've had in your head basically for your whole adult life. Tell us briefly about the concept, and then we'll do more about the book later.
Randi Zuckerber:
Sure. Well, we're all juggling so many things. I know you and I, we both, we're entrepreneurs, we're moms, I feel like there's so much pressure on all of us to be perfect at everything we do. Especially you log onto Instagram and everyone's lives look so perfect and so amazing, and then it's easy to sit there and think, "Gosh, how come I don't have my act together? Why don't I have it all and have that perfect balance?" And what I've really started to feel over the years is that it's just, it's time for us to stop carrying so much guilt around. Nobody has it all. Nobody has perfect balance, no matter what their lives might look like on Instagram. And so when I thought about the times in my life I felt most proud of my accomplishments, it was not when I was balanced. It was when I gave myself permission to just prioritize and go for it in a few areas of my life, so that's what I'm writing about. It's called Pick Three, and it's work, sleep, family, friends, fitness - pick three.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And by the way, just to show how much I love this book and how obsessed I am, I actually made notes in the book already. You can learn more about Randy's philosophy on social media and how our lives always look better online, page 211. That was one of the things that I flagged. So that's how good her book is, I have a book full of little post-it notes. Okay, we're going to go back to the book, but I want to talk about your money story, because it's something that I actually related to, because something very similar happened when I was a young adult, in my case also in New York City. Tell us your money story, because it has to do with the way that your mother taught you to earn your own money, but yet still was supporting you in different ways.
Randi Zuckerber:
Totally. And it's funny, because I didn't really learn the lesson of this story until many years later. In the moment, it felt kind of random, and now I'm so thankful to my mom for that. So in the book I go a bit deeper into the story, but when I was right out of college I landed a job at an ad agency. I was making I think $28,000.00 a year, which to live in Manhattan, that just doesn't work. I was in this apartment that was probably supposed to be a one-bedroom but there were four of us that were living in it, and my part of the apartment was a fake wall partitioning off a corner of the living room.
Bobbi Rebell:
Probably illegal, too.
Randi Zuckerber:
Yeah.
Bobbi Rebell:
We know all about those.
Randi Zuckerber:
Yes, I'm sure it was illegal, and it was taking up an entire paycheck every month. And my mom lived about an hour outside of the city. We've always been such close friends, my mom and I, and she would come into the city to take me out for dinner because I definitely couldn't afford to go to a restaurant on my own. And then she would be like, "Let me help you out," and she would take me shopping, and she would buy me fancy shoes. Like Jimmy Choo. Like the fancy-
Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you going in the Jimmy Choos?
Randi Zuckerber:
I know. And I would be like, "Mom, that's so nice of you to buy me Jimmy Choo shoes, but can you help me pay my rent? That's where I really need help."
Bobbi Rebell:
At one point you couldn't buy a Metro Card, right?
Randi Zuckerber:
That's right. There was one month that I had to walk everywhere because I didn't budget well, and I couldn't afford the $120.00 or whatever it was at that time for a monthly Metro Card. And so I walked everywhere in Manhattan for a month. That's kind of the state of how I was living.
Bobbi Rebell:
Were you walking everywhere in the Jimmy Choos, though?
Randi Zuckerber:
I know, right? Luckily I had fancy shoes to walk in, so you know, good for that. But I would turn to her and I'd be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope." She was like, "You know, it's really important that you make it on your own, you're a professional woman. It's really important that you cover the basics of your life on your own." She's like, "But I'm here to show you what to aspire to."
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Randi Zuckerber:
"The reason that you're working hard and to show you that it's okay when you do make that money later in life to treat yourself, and just spend a little bit of that money on yourself."
Bobbi Rebell:
Nice. So for our listeners, what is the lesson from that? What is the takeaway? How can they apply it to their own lives?
Randi Zuckerber:
For me at the time, it definitely felt a little frustrating. It was frustrating that I could barely afford a Metro Card but I had this closet full of beautiful designer shoes. But at the end, when I do look back now on those periods of my life, I'm proud of myself for supporting myself. Even though it was hard. Even though I was barely making any money at all, I look back on those years with pride that I took care of all my own living expenses, that I made it on my own. And I actually still have those Jimmy Choo shoes in my closet as a reminder, the first big girl items that I really ever owned, and they always serve as a reminder to me that the reason that we work so hard in life is not just to accumulate wealth or status. It's so we can treat ourselves and we can treat the people we love, and we can really enjoy our lives and our money.
Bobbi Rebell:
And so would you do the same lesson with your own children, knowing what you know now?
Randi Zuckerber:
Maybe I would keep the receipt in the box in case they needed to return it to help pay their rent. My mom used to take-
Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, did you ever try to return the shoes?
Randi Zuckerber:
No, she purposely would take the receipts home with her so I couldn't, and in those days there wasn't eBay to sell them on or things like that. But honestly, if my kids were motivated and ambitious and driven enough to think of ways to resell them, then that's great, that's teaching them an entrepreneurial lesson.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your money tip, because it's something we haven't talked about here on Financial Grownup, in part because I don't know a lot about it, and that's kind of your point. What is your money tip?
Randi Zuckerber:
So my money tip is to make sure that you're not just focusing all of your effort on learning about the systems that are already in place. Make sure that you're spending some time thinking about the new financial trends that are going to be coming out in the next few years. Specifically I think the biggest trend that's going to hit this industry is cryptocurrency and blockchain. I know I've personally spent a lot of time over the past two years learning about this space and educating myself, and I think it's so important for women especially to learn about this space, because right now only about 2% of cryptocurrency is owned and traded by women. And ladies, what's the use of catching up with our financial knowledge over here if we're then just going to be completely left behind in ten years on the next new thing that's making all of these new millionaires? I don't know about you guys, I don't want to be left out of the next thing that's making all these millionaires, so I think it's really important, even if you're not investing in this space, to at least understand it enough to be able to participate.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where is the best place people can learn more about it?
Randi Zuckerber:
I love listening to a lot of podcasts. I actually am so passionate about educating women that I literally just sat in my closet with a microphone this week and recorded a two-hour introduction to Bitcoin and Blockchain that I'm about to release. So I'll definitely give you more information on that, and it's specifically designed to teach women the basics of crypto.
Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. So now we have where we can go, I will make sure to put the link into the show notes for everyone. So that's your gift to our listeners, thank you so much, Randi. This is great. Okay, so now we get back to what I really want to talk about. So I've got this book here with all of these ... I almost ran out of post-it notes, because I have so many post-it notes in the book, and we have to keep it short because this is a short podcast. But it's basically about being lopsided and being okay with that. And that's almost how you got into college, was just saying, "I'm not going to apologize for not being balanced."
Randi Zuckerber:
Totally, well I think, and I'm sure, Bobbi, when you think about the things in your life you're most proud of, the things you hope we're alive to tell our great-grandkids about, each of us have three or four things on that list that we're super proud of. It's probably not times in your life that you were super well-balanced. For me, that list right now is completing a marathon, singing on Broadway, being part of Facebook, and having my two children, and not one of those four things happened when I had balance in my life.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Randi Zuckerber:
All of those things happened when I really allowed myself to just go for it and be super lopsided and prioritize a few areas in my life at one time. And so I want to give especially women out there permission to pick three. Pick a few things in your life that you want to prioritize, because there will be other times and other phases to pick other things and round out your life. But just give yourself the permission to go for it and be excellent in whatever you want to do without the guilt.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. One of my favorite areas was when you talk about quick fixes if you're feeling exhausted, and I say that because this book is also very practical, because people feel overwhelmed and there are very specific solutions in the book. Even at the end there's worksheets so that people can make it applicable to their own lives and really make it specific and actionable.
Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you, well you know, I live in the real world. In an ideal world we'd all be getting a lot of sleep every night, and going to the gym, and spending time with our children every day, and doing all of these things, but at the end of the day we all live in the real world, and I know that there's some days that you just cannot pick sleep. Your kids are sick, you have a deadline at work, there's something going on, you have an early plane to catch, so I tried to also, while encouraging people to pick different areas, also tried to give some hacks to actually get around it and still function in your life if you can't pick that one area.
Bobbi Rebell:
So it's three, and the five things that you're picking three from are sleep, work, friends, family and fitness, and the great thing about the book is you break down each one.
Randi Zuckerber:
Yes. I try to break it down, and I also really tried to interview a mixture of people across all ages and walks of life. Because if you're in the position that you can pick which areas of your life you want to prioritize then you're in a real state of privilege, that everything in your life is going so well that you can choose. There are a lot of people out there who have life circumstances where they just can't choose what they want to focus on. Life picks for them. And so I wanted to make sure that all different people are represented.
Bobbi Rebell:
Randi, where can people find you and learn more about everything you're up to, including Pick Three?
Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much, I have been known to be available on a few social media channels.
Bobbi Rebell:
A few.
Randi Zuckerber:
Yup, [inaudible 00:13:14] Facebook, and one's owned by Facebook. But yes, you can find me on Facebook, on Instagram and Twitter, I'm @randizuckerberg, and then Pick Three is available on Amazon or any of your favorite bookstores. I love indie bookstores and promoting them, so go pick it up at a cool indie bookstore near you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all, and keep in touch.
Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much Bobbi, this is awesome, love your podcast.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, I think we all have a good sense of how Randi stays so grounded despite literally being on the go all the time. I have been personal witness to that. Prioritize and keep perspective.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: You may have noticed that one area of Randi's book really hit me. All of our lives look like so much fun online. So many of us, myself included, have felt a little wistful when we see photos and videos of friends who always seem to be vacationing while in the perfect outfit, and going to a fantastic concert where of course they get to see Beyonce and hang out with her and Jay-Z backstage. Just kidding, but only about part of that. But we are all actually usually happy that they're having fun, it's not necessarily competitive, but still. Remember, it is a curated version of their life. Real life can't be edited, and filters don't work outside of the digital world. Randi's advice that really resonates with me? Flip that back to what you can control, and be a little more intentional about what you post, about the image that you put out there to other people. Don't just post your own perfect moments, try to be more authentic with your social media, and maybe we'll all get the hint and be a little more real.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's all go out and learn about Bitcoin. I said learn, not invest, though you can if it's right for you. The truth is, as Randi said, we may be missing a big opportunity. I always think of famous investors like Warren Buffett who say they don't invest in anything they don't understand. So let's understand and make a decision from a point of understanding and information. I was recently at a retreat called Statement Event, it was women thought leaders, a very small group of us, about 17. We had dinner with a CEO of a company called Empower, and he asked this group of all women how many of us talked about Bitcoin as an investment option for our followers or listeners. The room got silent. He asked, had we really investigated? Nope. I'm going to check out Randi's tutorial, and I will leave the link for you guys as well. Let me know what you think. Make sure to pick up your copy of her new book, Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day) and write a review for Randi. Authors love reviews.
Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. The show has been growing, so please keep sharing on social media, writing reviews on iTunes aka Apple Podcast, and subscribing if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a money story that you want to share? Maybe a great money tip? We are starting to have listeners as guests once a month, so to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and just tell us what money story and money tip you would share if you are chosen.
Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, Facebook I am at Bobbi Rebell. Randi Zuckerberg really nailed it in this episode, helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Comedian Catie Lazarus does not just host Employee of the Month, she also runs the business that supports it. Being the boss means setting realistic expectations for her team, and dealing with those who aren’t on board with her mission.
In Catie’s money story you will learn:
-The real reason Catie started “Employee of the Month"
-The behind-the-scenes challenges of running a live show/podcast
-The employer side of pay negotiation
-Why Catie is talking about lobsters and diners and how that relates to deciding the right compensation
In Catie’s money lesson you will learn:
-How to evaluate if your pay expectations are realistic for the company or organization that you want to work for or if you need to rethink your approach
-How to tell the difference between being unfairly underpaid, and being paid what the employer can afford
-The benefits of being flexible with your compensation, if the position aligns with your goals
In Catie’s money tip you will learn:
-Her tips on negotiating
-How to navigate the implicit and explicit biases in the work place
-How Catie incorporates her degree in clinical psychology into her business decisions and negotiations
-Strategies to use statistics in your negotiations
In my take you will learn:
-Why and how to take the big picture into account when asking for a raise
-The importance of keeping up your work quality and attitude even if you are turned down for a raise or promotion
-Why it is ok to do something a second or even a third time until you get it right.
-It’s not about perfection but it is about doing your best, and presenting the best product.
Episode Links
EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH https://www.employeeofthemonthshow.com/
Follow Catie and Employee of the Month!
Instagram Catie_Lazarus
Twitter @catielazarus
Facebook EOTM
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from Transferwise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. Transferwise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.
Catie Lazarus:
Well, I paid him and I never used him again. Fast forward, after that show, a very big corporation asked recommendations for audio engineers. So, of course, I recommended all of the people who hadn't asked for that, who had seen rightly. It's not that they devalued themselves, it's that they showed perspective and that, I saw, as a really important trait when recommending someone to someone else.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Friends, people often ask me, "How do I get these incredible and, often, really high-profile guests?" Well, the answer is simple. Perseverance and having high standards. The interview you are about to hear is the third attempt made to get this woman on for you guys. She's amazing. I had to have her on. First, we had a last minute rescheduling because she lost her voice. Then, we actually did tape an episode but she wasn't happy. She has a really high bar and she wanted to re-tape the show. High standards, my friends. Do it till you get it right.
Bobbi Rebell:
Catie Lazarus is a comedian who does not come to anything with less than her best. She joked that she is not a financial grownup but you're going to see, she absolutely is. Catie is running a business. She is making tough money decisions. You may know her as the host of Employee of the Month. It is a live show about working that is also a podcast. She interviews everyone from John Stewart to Lin-Manuel Miranda, Maya Rudolph and, famously, Jon Hamm. Here is Catie Lazarus.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Catie Lazarus, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Catie Lazarus:
Thank you, Bobbi, I'm one of your biggest fans or, at least, I am a huge fan of yours.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm a huge fan of yours.
Catie Lazarus:
I was so thrilled when you came to the show.
Bobbi Rebell:
Your new Employee of the Month. Taped live podcast.
Catie Lazarus:
Exactly. Exactly.
Bobbi Rebell:
Celebrity studied extravaganza.
Catie Lazarus:
You know it's funny, 'cause I've had everyone from FBI agents and taxidermists and the lice lady and a former pick-pocket to, as you know, John Stewart and Rachel Maddow and Jon Hamm and Maya Rudolph and some of the others, so, it does range and that's, I think, what's nice about having this One-On-One podcast, as you know?
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.
Catie Lazarus:
As well as these live shows where you get to see an variety of guests, as you did.
Bobbi Rebell:
And, by the way, it is a beautiful spring day in New York City and I hear the birds chirping behind you because you're a woman on the go so you're taping outside, which is kind of awesome.
Catie Lazarus:
I want to apologize because I know that the sound quality may not be as good because I'm outside, however, once you hear my voice, it actually might be better.
Bobbi Rebell:
It's all good. It's all good and you brought a really good money story. Tell us.
Catie Lazarus:
So, I started this show, Employee of the Month, 'cause I could not figure out how to get a job writing for The Weather Channel. I got hired to be an assistant on A Bee Movie, and I don't mean a B-grade movie, I mean a movie about bees by a very famous comedian and, at the last minute, the studio went with so-and-so's niece. You know I'd have these-
Bobbi Rebell:
Of course. Of course.
Catie Lazarus:
I was walking to the subway, kind of thing. And so I started my show to understand, not just how people break in, but how did they sustain careers. And you're here in New York and maybe this is a good way to say, "When you're starting out on your own, you may not be able to afford an office." Even a wee workspace. You may work from home. It may be DIY and that certainly was the case with my- [crosstalk 00:04:07].
Bobbi Rebell:
It's about being authentic, Catie, you're authentic.
Catie Lazarus:
Well, what I was also going to say on that note is, I made a joke with you earlier. I said, "When you walk into a diner, you don't order the lobster unless you wanna, you know, figure out what salmonella tastes like or find yourself ... maybe you don't wanna go home. Maybe you don't have a place to stay so you would order a lobster in a diner so that you would end up in the hospital and that would be the place you stay that night."
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So your money story. I need to put you back on track, Catie. Okay. Let's go to your money story. Your money story is about people hitting you up for money. You're this struggling comedian.
Catie Lazarus:
Yes. So my money story is that you want what you want, but you also need to see what's in front of you. And so when people have come to me demanding wages that I just simply couldn't offer, it was as if they had walked into a diner and demanded a lobster.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, what do you mean? They were asking to borrow money or you were hiring them? What was going on?
Catie Lazarus:
I would be hiring people and they would want ... this would happen very rarely, but it happened. It happened with a couple audio engineers where they wanted money that they deserved to get if they are working at a corporation. They deserved to get it, maybe, even if they worked at a non-profit so they were-
Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so it wasn't a judgment of the value of their work, it was a judgment of your budget?
Catie Lazarus:
Yes. And they're just simply ... It is what it is. It's nothing personal. I wish it was bigger. I wish that I made money too.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what would happen when this would ha ... I mean is there one incident that stands out?
Catie Lazarus:
Yes. Because I have to say that most of the people who worked on my show worked on my show forever and that, I will tell you at the end, why. So I have a really great team in place. But, on occasion, I would hire someone because I needed someone last minute and this happened with one specific person, a guy who came in and he was from a very small town and I always ask before I hire someone, I say, "What do you want to get out of this?" Because I know from my own experience that sometimes working at organizations that don't have as big a name, don't have as much clout or cachet, you, actually, get to do more work and you get to really learn on the job, which is a positive. And I asked him and he said, "I really wanna be part of something small." But the truth was is that he didn't. So he wanted to get paid really well.
Catie Lazarus:
Well, I paid him and I never used him again but, fast forward, after that show, a very big corporation asked recommendations for audio engineers so, of course, I recommended all of the people who hadn't asked for that, who had seen rightly. It's not that they devalued themselves, it's that they showed perspective. And that, I saw, as a really important trait when recommending someone to someone else.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because you have to be realistic about what the budget is for the organization that you're working for. It's not that you're not worth it, it's that this is what this is the project is. Yeah, so what's the lesson then from this story?
Catie Lazarus:
So I think the lesson is to look at what you're going into and ask yourself, "What do I want and what can I get?" And if the answer is, "I want to make money." Well, then you should probably go to an institution that has a track record of making money. If you want to be part of a really creative, artistic show that has tremendous potential for learning a skill, for perfecting a skill, for having ownership, an agency, all of those things, my show has always delivered. And that's why 99.9% of my staff has been with me for so long. My team, really.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awe. That's so great.
Catie Lazarus:
Yeah, and they're fabulous and we work together versus working for me. Now, if you're going to a bank, I'm not gonna name any, but if you're going to a bank or you're going to another kind of corporation, there is a sense that you work for someone.
Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.
Catie Lazarus:
Whereas, I treat my show as I work with you, even if you're my intern. You work with me.
Bobbi Rebell:
So I wanna talk about your money tip. It's, sort of, the flip side of this because you're talking about when you're on the receiving end of someone trying to negotiate with you but you also, in your business now, are constantly being in the position of having to negotiate for yourself in an environment that can be very precarious.
Catie Lazarus:
Yes. And so the hardest part, I find, as a creative person or anyone who's independent and particularly in a culture now where everyone has to be a brand even if you're a peace activist, on some level, you, somehow, have to find yourself as a brand. Pro-peace is not enough. With that in mind, I was short changing myself and I'm talking about with corporations and companies, not with other peers. And part of the challenge is is that there are implicit and explicit biases which the Me Too movement and Black Lives Matter and all of ... Pay Parity, all of these things have really shed tremendous light on it. I'm so thrilled that people are speaking out and having the courage to do so because it's really hard. How do you negotiate if women, typically, make less than men? How, as a female, do I go in and negotiate?
Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So your money tip is about how to negotiate?
Catie Lazarus:
So I decided that I was gonna try to be jovial about it and the reason that I chose to be jovial, meaning humorous, it's still serious. You need to get paid.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, how much you get paid is a very serious thing.
Catie Lazarus:
Well, the approach. Exactly what you were saying, Bobbi, is that you want to not make it personal so it's not that that person is intentionally trying to be biased against me any more than I'm intentionally trying to be biased against someone else. So, instead of making it about us, I would make a joke about now women are statistically paid less than men, so I wanna make sure that neither of us falls prey to it.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you're calling them out.
Catie Lazarus:
I'm calling it out. Instead of-
Bobbi Rebell:
Calling it out. Yes.
Catie Lazarus:
Yes. So I'm calling the problem out versus the person.
Bobbi Rebell:
So can you go through an example of how you use this? What kind of language would you use?
Catie Lazarus:
A lot of times companies will say, "You know, you're gonna to get a lot of exposure if you go with us." So let's say, we're gonna hire you. You may or may not get exposure from that as anyone who's actually has experience in the business knows, including myself, and that's really up to you, whether that's what you're going in to get. If I'm going in because I'd like to pay my rent, pay for the dentist, what money people do when they go for major jobs. In that scenario, it's okay for me to joke about it a little bit and bring up the subject just like I said. So I stick with the facts which is that women are statistically paid less and, in fact, whether you're a woman of color becomes even more of an issue. So I stick with the facts and then I just make a very light joke about, "I don't want either of us to fall prey to it." Part of the reason I do that is so that I don't have to undermine myself either because I also carry these biases.
Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. So have you changed, recently, in how you approach people when you hire them? Are you looking at people differently?
Catie Lazarus:
Absolutely, in that I really strive ... I'm coming from [inaudible 00:10:44] a doctor in clinical psych. So I think that there's a part of me that always strives to be better at being mindful of who gets hired and on my talk show, as you know, I have as many female guests and LGBDT, I have guests of all ages and careers and all of this reflects on a desire to see the world as larger than myself. Even if it's harder to get certain kinds of guests 'cause I may not know as many people in that age range or whatever it is or that field or whatever the different points are that create true inclusivity.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I just want to have one more moment with you to have you tell us a little bit more about the show, Employee of the Month. What's next with it and tell us where people can hear it.
Catie Lazarus:
We're, actually, going to be going on the road, so if people go to employeeofthemonthshow.com, you can find out if we'll be in a major city near you. You can also listen to the podcast One-On-One and I highly encourage you to go and look through the back files because there's everyone from Lin-Manuel Miranda to Jon Hamm and Maya Rudolph on my show and it's a lot of fun. Even Cynthia Nixon before she ran for governor.
Bobbi Rebell:
I know. That's interesting. That's for another show. Alright, and on social media, where can people follow you, be in touch with you, all that good stuff?
Catie Lazarus:
I'm on Instagram and the Twitter and Employee of the Month has a Facebook page which Putin may or may not also be checking out. So you can go to @employeeofthemonth and Catie is spelled with a C, C-A-T-I-E and then Lazarus, L-A-Z-A-R-U-S.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're wonderful, Catie Lazarus. Thank you so much.
Catie Lazarus:
Thank you, Bobbi, as are you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Here's my take on what Catie had to say. Financial grownup tip number one. When you go to your boss and ask for a raise, be mindful of the economics of the business. You may be worth more but only to another company that has a bigger budget. Sometimes, the company you work for, actually, cannot afford to pay you more or there are business reasons they choose not to, even if you deserve it. If you make the choice to stay, own that decision and do the best job you can. Don't be that person who complains all day but keeps showing up. You know that person. We've all had them at work. I've had them at every job. You just think, "If this place is so bad, leave." Put a smile on and make it work. But it's also okay to leave for a place that can afford to pay you more. Your employer may not be happy to lose you, but the truth is, they probably know that they can't afford to keep you. They will probably wish you well.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Sometimes, consider a do-over when you aren't happy with the results. Not only did Catie ask to re-tape her episode, I, myself, have gone to guests and asked them to re-tape their episodes or to come up with more original or compelling stories and money tips to share if I'm not happy with the show or the plan for the show they're going to be on. It can be uncomfortable, at first. But every single time, it results in a better show, a happier guest and, often, a thank you for making the effort to make them sound and come off even better than other shows.
Bobbi Rebell:
That is a wrap on the Catie Lazarus episode. If you want to be a guest on the show and have high standards, like Catie, write to us at info@financialgrownup.com to be considered for our new, once-a-month, listener episodes. Include, in the email, the money story that you wanna share, the lesson and, of course, a very original and compelling everyday money tip. Be sure to subscribe, if you have not already, so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and for more on the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. I am such a Catie Lazarus fan. I can't wait for the next Employee of the Month podcast. Make sure you subscribe to that, as well. She is the best and thanks to Catie for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Chris Browning, host of the Popcorn Finance podcast got a clean bill of health for his wife after a hospital stay a few years ago. But despite having been patients there before, a billing mixup left his credit score needing intensive care.
Chris’ Money Story:
Chris Browning:
Yes so you know, unfortunately my wife, she had to go in for surgery and which is never a good thing. So we went to the hospital, everything got taken care of. She's all well now. We figured we'd just get a bill in the mail, that's how most medical bills come, they just send you something in the mail.
Bobbi Rebell:
Did they do any paperwork while you were at the hospital? Did you give them insurance information? What actually transpired at the hospital? Because you do usually fill out some stuff.
Chris Browning:
Yeah, so leading up, you sit in the finance office and they have you sign a couple of waivers and disclosures. And they say. "Alright, let's see your insurance". They took a copy and they said, "Okay we'll bill you". And that's literally all they told me. No further information other than that.
Bobbi Rebell:
And the hospital was in Network? Do you remember?
Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was an in Network hospital.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you were trying to be in Network, okay.
Chris Browning:
Yes, so we did everything we thought we were supposed to do and we visited the hospital before and the billing seemed to work fine, so you know we didn't even think twice about it. It felt normal.
Bobbi Rebell:
This might be important later on. You were in the system having visited the hospital before?
Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was a local hospital.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.
Chris Browning:
So we just thought, we'll get a bill in the mail like we have in the past. We waited around, nothing came after a couple of months and to be honest, I kind of just forgot about it, because it had been so long and it just never showed up.
Bobbi Rebell:
I would totally forget about it.
Chris Browning:
Yeah, after two months, you assume you would receive it. After that, life just goes on. You do other things. You live life. And so, I have this habit of checking my credit score, because one of my credit cards on their app, they allow you to check your credit score for free, and they'll update it like every seven days. And so I was just taking a look at it, and I noticed my credit score had dropped like a crazy amount. It had dropped about 150 points. That was very alarming, to say the least. And so I decided to take a look in my credit report. And I went to freecreditreport.com. I saw this like delinquency mark and I was like, that's strange. I remember paying all my bills.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right.
Chris Browning:
And when I looked into it, it just gave me just a random number. It didn't really give me a lot of details.
Bobbi Rebell:
Like a phone number?
Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was a random phone number from a ... it was an area code I'd never seen before. And so I gave the phone number a call, and then they gave me the details. They said this is from the hospital that we had visited, and they say you didn't pay your bill and it's been turned over to a collection agency. And this was the collection agency that I was speaking with.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Chris Browning:
I was just shocked and I was like, well how did this happen? And they have limited information.
Bobbi Rebell:
Sure.
Chris Browning:
And all they'd allow me to do at the time was they said, "Would you like to set up a payment plan?". And I was like, well yeah I want to get this cleared up. But I said, "Let me call the hospital first".
Bobbi Rebell:
Well right, and how do you even know they're legit. I mean they're saying they have the debt, but what exactly happened? Because you'd never heard from the hospital.
Chris Browning:
Exactly, so I was a little hesitant. I don't want to give you money just yet. So I called the hospital and got hold of billing department and I asked them. I said, "I see this delinquency on my credit report. They're saying that our bill was into collections, but we never received a bill in the mail". They said, "Well yeah, we mailed it out to you". And I said, "Well we haven't got anything for months". So they checked their system and they said, "Well here's the address we have for you", and it was the wrong address. They had transposed the numbers around, and who knows where the bill actually went.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which is crazy because two things. First of all, you had been to this hospital before, so presumably you were in the system correctly at some point because you had paid previous bills. And number two, any company, any person, we should all do it, but certainly a company, a hospital, should have a return address. So if they were going to the wrong address, you would think that they would return the mail, and the hospital would receive it back.
Chris Browning:
Exactly. You think they'd be some type of notification for them to know that whatever they mailed out just came back.
Bobbi Rebell:
And they never called you.
Chris Browning:
They never called.
Bobbi Rebell:
But presumably your phone number is on there.
Chris Browning:
Exactly, you'd think if they hadn't been paid all this time, they'd have at least called to follow up. But no. I think maybe it's just the sheer volume they deal with. They don't even try, they just immediately send it to collections after the time period had passed.
Bobbi Rebell:
So then what did you do?
Chris Browning:
So after I verified with them what collection agency they actually sent the bill to, and it matched the information they I had received from the number I had called, I called the collection agency back, because at that point, the hospital said there's nothing we can do. It's been sold to collections, you know it's out of our hands. I called the number back, I spoke with them. I said, "Yes, we want to take care of this". And I said, "If we pay this off, is there a way that this could be removed from my credit report, because it's a huge mark on my credit?".
Bobbi Rebell:
And it's also not your fault.
Chris Browning:
Exactly. Because I explained to them, I said we just never received the bill. I didn't know what type of pushback I was going to get. If they were going to say no. But surprisingly they said, Yes. If you set up, if you agree to a payment plan now, they gave me the total amount. It matched what the hospital said it should be. They said, if you pay this off, we will contact the credit bureaus and have the delinquency removed, because you've taken care of this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Of course. That's the least they can do. Did the hospital take any ownership of the fact that they had not followed up?
Chris Browning:
Not at all.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's disappointing.
Chris Browning:
They basically just said, sorry, nothing we can do. It's out of our hands and it was on me to take care of it.
Bobbi Rebell:
And it's foolish on their part because generally, and I assume this was the case when you send something to a collection agency, they're only getting a fraction of what the bill was. So they lost out for not bothering and not having the right systems in place to check with you. Presumably the doctor could follow up with you and your wife, so they had contact information that was correct in some part of the system.
Chris Browning:
You'd think that if they knew they're going to lose money, that it'd be in their best interest to do a little more follow-ups, spend a little more time, but no, they just I guess, just dump it off.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right, they lost money too. So that maybe there isn't the right stakeholder at the hospital that took ownership of the fact that that bill was not being paid for that reason.
Chris Browning:
Exactly.
Chris’ Money Lesson:
Chris Browning:
I would say first of all, make sure that you follow up on all your medical bills. Even if you think that the office is going to take care of it the way they should, you just never know. You could end up in the situation like this. So I do acknowledge that I could have called and followed up after a month of not hearing anything back.
Bobbi Rebell:
But maybe the insurance you were in Network, so if I was doing something in Network, I would have assumed that if I didn't get a bill, the insurance covered it.
Chris Browning:
I made that assumption too, but I think after this now, I'm going to be on the safe side.
Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.
Chris Browning:
I'm going to give them a call just to follow up if it's been like an unusually long amount of time since I haven't got any communication from them. Just to eliminate any issues or this ever happening again.
Chris Browning:
And the second thing I would say, check your credit score. I was really fortunate that that was a habit that I had picked up. You know we had been paying off some debts so I was in the habit of looking at my credit score to see how it was changing. That's the only reason I knew that there was any type of issue is because I saw my credit score had dropped drastically, and that triggered me to look at my credit report, and that's where I found the error, and I was able to finally take care of it.
Chris’ Money Tip:
Chris Browning:
So my money tip would be check with your credit card company, if you do have a credit card. Or even some banks. A lot of them offer access to your credit score and some even your credit report directly through their website or their mobile app. And so it's really simple. It's free a lot of the time and it's just a really convenient tool to have with you, and whether you're looking for errors or you just want to kind of track your progress. I think it's a really great incentive that these banks are offering to let you stay on top of your credit and your finances.
Bobbi Rebell:
And specifically, how often do you do that?
Chris Browning:
I've slowed down. I was a little obsessive. I was checking like every day at one point. Now I'm on a once per month basis. I'll log in, just kind of look and see how things are going, just I want to keep the practice up. I don't want to get too comfortable and let too much time pass, because who knows when an error could pop up.
Bobbi Rebell:
So when people check their credit score, what are the things that they should be looking for that are good and that are bad?
Chris Browning:
So I would say for sure, any type of drastic change. So if you've made this a habit and you're checking on a regular frequency, your credit score's not going to swing wildly. You know it's normal for it to swing 10, 20 points here and there. But if you see any type of drastic change, that would for sure be a trigger point to let you know you need to look into this a little bit more. Whether it's going to some place like freecreditreport.com which is run by Experian and you're getting a copy of your credit report just to see what's going on. Wild changes in any area of your finances is normally a sign of something that's not normal and that's maybe something you should look into a little bit more.
Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:
Financial Grownup Tip Number One:
The only thing Chris did wrong here, he did not follow up in finding out what he owed the hospital. So the tip is to try to stay on top of your medical bills, especially the ones that you know are probably coming. Even if you're hoping they're not. That said, the visit was in Network, so Chris in all fairness could have believed there wasn't much to do except for a co-pay that he probably had already paid at the hospital. But at the end of the day, he himself says he should have checked in and been more on top of it. Mixed feelings about that though.
Financial Grownup Tip Number Two:
Don't assume that corporations or institutions such as hospitals are competent in their billing. Question everything. This especially goes sadly for end of life situations where the family is distracted and just wants to move on. Assuming you do get bills, try hard as it may be to go through them. I know of some instances where the bills were so out of control, literally offensive, that people have gone to the financing offices of the hospital and just negotiated them down on the grounds that no one could possibly go through every charge for an overpriced Bandaid or medication or whatever, and prove that it actually happened, was given and was priced correctly. Fairly, and fairly is pretty broad when it comes to our healthcare system. Hold them accountable. Just because they throw a list of a thousand teeny charges on a bill, doesn't mean you can't question it.
Episode Links
Listen to and learn more about the Popcorn Finance Podcast
Check your credit score!
Follow Chris Browning and Popcorn Finance!
Twitter - @popcornfinance
Instagram - @popcornfinancepodcast
YouTube - Popcorn Finance
Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.
Certified Financial Planner Manisha Thakor bonded with her dad over a love of the HP12C calculator and all of its investing tools. Now, the author of Get Financially Naked shares her actual math formulas on how to lock in the right number for retirement and other goals. No excuses for listeners after this episode.
In Manisha’s money story you will learn:
-The important role her father played in her early financial lessons
-How she bonded with her father over an HP12C calculator
-The specific way Manisha calculated different retirement investing outcomes as a tween.
-The role inflation plays in the future value of investments
-The power of compounding
In Manisha’s lesson you will learn:
-Why Manisha feels women in particular need to focus not just on saving but also on investing
-The corrosive power of inflation
-Why we need to put the recent period of historically low inflation in context
-How to manage your investments in times of extreme market volatility
In Manisha’s money tip you will learn
Manisha’s investing formula
Take the total dollar of your current savings and investment portfolios
Subtract out money you know you will need to spend in the next 5 years
For any of your long term money, like retirement, take 110 and subtract your age
That is the amount that should be in equities
For example Manisha is 47.
110-47 = 63 percent should be in equities
In My Take you will learn:
-Why you do not need an HP12C calculator because so much is available online
-Exactly how to find out the status of your retirement accounts and if you are on track to reach your goals
-How and why you should automate your retirement savings.
Episode links:
Follow Manisha!
Twitter: @manishathakor
Facebook: Manisha Thakor
LinkedIn Manisha Thakor
YouTube: Manisha Thakor
Instagram Manisha Thakor
Pinterest Manisha Thakor
MoneyZen.com
Get Manisha’s books! http://www.moneyzen.com/books/
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money abroad. Built by the brands behind Skype, TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. So don't get stung by a bad exchange rate or sneaky fees, join the two million people who are already saving with TransferWise. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast, or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.
Manisha Thakor:
He showed me how to calculate how much money I would have by the time I was 65 if I invested my babysitting and my lawn mowing money, and then we did a couple scenarios. We tested how much I would have if I was earning 5% after inflation, if I earned 6% after inflation, and when I saw how big those numbers were I was just hooked.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is a really hard, especially when it comes for money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
We are geeking out here at Financial Grownup, but stay with me friends because you will have more money and be wealthier if you listened to this episode and follow my guest advice. Manisha Thakor is the author of Get Financially Naked, How to Talk Money With Your Honey. She is also the force behind MoneyZen, and is a practicing certified financial planner. If that sounds pretty cerebral, well, she will take that as a compliment. She started learning about investing very, very early. Here is Manisha Thakor.
Bobbi Rebell:
Manisha Thakor, welcome. You are a financial grownup. I'm so excited you're joining us on the Financial Grownup podcast.
Manisha Thakor:
I'm so excited to be here, and to be deemed by you a financial grownup.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're very much a grownup. You're the author of two books, On My Own Two Feet, and I love the second title, I know everyone does, Get Financially Naked. You also have MoneyZen. Lots going on.
Manisha Thakor:
I feel super excited about the world of personal finance and investing.
Bobbi Rebell:
Good, and I'm super excited about the story that you brought to share today, because it has to do with some father-daughter bonding around, not the dinner table, around the HP 12C calculator.
Manisha Thakor:
I love this. When I was around 11 years old, my dad, he's an MBA and a CPA, he sat me down in a moment of father-daughter bonding that only financial geeks, like ourselves, could really appreciate. He had an HP 12C calculator, which for folks who may not be familiar with it, is a financial calculator that enables you to do sophisticated compounding calculations on it.
Manisha Thakor:
He showed me how to calculate how much money I would have by the time I was 65 if I invested my babysitting and my lawn mowing money, and then we did a couple scenarios. We tested how much I would have if I was earning 5% after inflation, if I earned 6% after inflation, if I earned 7% after inflation, and when I saw how big those numbers were I was just hooked.
Manisha Thakor:
That was really my first introduction to the power of compounding, and I think because he had my physically touching the buttons on the calculator, and then he made me write down the numbers in a little grid on a notepad. I can literally still even remember what the notepad looked like. It was so tactile and so visual.
Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have the notebook still?
Manisha Thakor:
You know, I wish I did. He and I both say in retrospect, "We totally should have saved that for the grandkids," but it's in my mind's eye. That's how I got hooked on saving and investing.
Bobbi Rebell:
So then what is the lesson for our listeners? Should everyone be bonding over calculators?
Manisha Thakor:
That's right.
Bobbi Rebell:
We know that's not going to happen.
Manisha Thakor:
No, I-
Bobbi Rebell:
Let's bring it down to a realistic level.
Manisha Thakor:
The lesson for me, and the lesson that I want to scream from the mountain tops, is, and particularly for women, is that it's not enough to just save money. Saving is great, and it's freaking hard to do, but you must invest it as well, first and foremost to offset the corrosive power of inflation.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which is picking up by the way, so that's something we need to start being more aware of, and a lot of young people haven't really seen inflation at the level that other generations have. But it is going to become a bigger part of our dialog.
Manisha Thakor:
Yeah, and Bobbi, you've nailed it. We've just gone through such a bizarro period of de minimis inflation. An example I love to give is 100 bucks over a 30 year period at 3% inflation is worth $40, was, at the beginning. If you just increase that inflation to 5%, which doesn't sound like a big jump, but that drops the value of $100 in 30 years to what $20 would have bought.
Manisha Thakor:
So small [inaudible 00:05:54] inflation have a huge, huge impact, and that's why you cannot just save. You have to invest, because the first step of investing is keeping your money growing at least with the rate of inflation. If you do investing well, then ideally over the long run you grow your portfolio even faster than inflation, which increases your real purchasing power.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Now for your money tip, Manisha. We're geek out even more, because you have actually brought a formula. Your, Manisha's, magical formula for investing success. I promise everyone, just stick with us, she says it really well. She's going to explain it all, and we're going to have it all written down in the show notes for you as well. Go for it.
Manisha Thakor:
The way I think about how to take your hard earned savings and invest it is the following. First, take a look at the total dollar value of your current saving and investment portfolios. Second, subtract out any money you know you need to spend in the next five years. This could be money you need for a home down payment, or it could be your six month emergency fund.
Manisha Thakor:
Then, for any of your long term money, which for most of us is our retirement money. So it's any money that you know you don't have to spend in the next five years. What you do, is you take 110, and you subtract your age to get a back of the envelop estimate of what percent of your portfolio should be invested in stocks. That was a mouthful, and Bobbi, as you mentioned, it will be in the show notes, but I'll give you an example.
Manisha Thakor:
I'm 47 years old. We'll round that down, because at my age you like to round down. To keep the math easy, 110 minus 45 equals 65. So a good starting point for me, for how much of my long term money at my age should be in stocks, is 65%. Lo and behold, that's how much I have of my long term money in stocks.
Manisha Thakor:
The biggest mistake that I am seeing with young people these days is shying away from investing their savings, because they're afraid of losing money. So they're missing those vital early years of compounding. That's why it's so important that you subtract out the money you need to spend in the next five years, so no matter what the market is doing, you're fine. The money you know you needed, it's in cash. It's only your long term money that's being invested.
Bobbi Rebell:
I think a lot of young people witnessed their older siblings, or their parents, really being burnt in the recession, and that's a lot of the hesitation.
Manisha Thakor:
I'll just say, Bobbi, when I hear somebody tell me that 2007 to 2009 ruined their retirement, what I say is, "No. Either you had the wrong asset allocation going into it, or you blink and you deviated from your plan." Because if you followed the formula that I'm saying, and you didn't have any money that you needed to spend in the next five years in the market, in 2007-2009, you would have seen your portfolio drop as much as 50%, but you wouldn't have sold a single share of anything, because you didn't need to touch it, and then you would have seen your money double or triple as you came out of the recovery.
Manisha Thakor:
So the people who lost in 07-09, where the people that were forced to sell at bottom to maintain their lifestyle, or got scared because they didn't have the cash cushion, and sold at the bottom. That's why this formula is so important.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and you've got to sit tight. Even the beginning of 2018 we had some scary days. You've got to know your focus and stick with the plan. All right. Mrs Manisha, I also hear you have big news, new projects, new jobs. Tell us.
Manisha Thakor:
I'm so excited. I have just accepted the role of vice president of financial education for an amazing firm called Brighton Jones. I could not be happier. When I think about what I want to accomplish in this world, my belief is that money is power, and women need more of both.
Manisha Thakor:
And so I am going to be doing my darnedest in this new role to help women achieve that. As part of that, I'm really going to be ramping up my efforts with my MoneyZen newsletter. So if listeners are interested, I encourage you, go to my website, moneyzen.com. I'll have a monthly newsletter that I'll be putting out. It's educational, and I'm really going to be working hard to share the most vital resources, articles, tools, each month around women's economic empowerment, and how we can all use personal finance and investing to increase our voices and choices. I always say, "Money gives women, it gives everyone, voices and choices," and financial education, and financial guidance are what helps unlock those doors.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Before I let you go, where can we find you on social media?
Manisha Thakor:
My name is a mouthful, and I'm the same handle on everything. I'm ManishaThakor everywhere. It's M-A-N-I-S-H-A-T-H-A-K-O-R, on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram. If you forget that, go to moneyzen.com, because I have all my social media icons right up at the top.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you so much for joining us.
Manisha Thakor:
Bobbi, always a pleasure to chat with you.
Bobbi Rebell:
As warned, Manisha and her dad totally geeked out with all that math, but the good news is, you guys don't need to go out and buy yourself fancy HP 12C calculators and do all this kind of fancy math, because these days it's really all there for you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one, there is nothing more powerful than seeing the numbers. And like I said, you don't even have to do the math yourself these days. Log into your HR website from your job, or if you work for yourself and you have retirement accounts, which you should, go there. Go to the provider, and just take a look. Most of them will have nice calculators. They'll do the math for you. They'll have probably some graphic ways to show you how you measure up, where you are relative to your retirement goals.
Bobbi Rebell:
You can actually see how you stand, and see how you feel about it. You might get pretty emotional. It could be a really emotion. You might doing pretty well. It could possibly be not that great, but maybe that will motivate you. But the important thing is, get the information, it doesn't take much work, and make decisions from there.
Bobbi Rebell:
Speaking of decisions, financial grownup tip number two. While you're on that website, look at the retirement savings, and look for a box that says, "Increase your withholding," or a box you should check that says, "Increase your withholding by 1% every year," and of course check that box.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now, you can always undo it, but by checking that box it will automate increasing the amount of money that you are putting away each year, and you probably won't feel it because it's tax deductible, so it won't cost you that full amount, and it will amplify your savings.
Bobbi Rebell:
We have been hearing a lot from you guys, wanting to share your own financial grownup money stories, lessons, and money tips. So we are going to start having one guest a month be a listener. If you want to be considered, email us at info@financialgrownup.com, and tell us, what is the money story that you would like to share, and what is the money tip that you would also share with us, if you are chosen.
Bobbi Rebell:
Subscribe if you have not already, and help us spread the word by sharing on social media. I am @BobbiRebell on Twitter. Follow me, and please retweet these silly promo videos I'm doing. They're a lot of fun. I enjoy making them. Hopefully you guys are going to enjoy seeing them, if you have not already. Help us reach more listeners. On Instagram I am @BobbiRebell1, you can also repost those, and go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast to learn more about the show, and sign up for our mailing list so you can hear about things like how to be guest on the show. I hope you enjoyed Manisha's story, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Whitney Johnson, author of "Disrupt Yourself” and her new book “Build an A Team” finds out from her financial planner that her overspending is impacting her ability to tithe 10 percent and support her church. She and her family plan a self-disruption, downsizing their life so they can deploy their money in a more intentional way.
In Whitney’s story you will learn
-How a phone call from Whitney’s financial planner got Whitney’s attention about her finances
-Why Whitney was not going to be able to reach her financial goals, despite a relatively high income
-The shifts that Whitney made in terms of her spending and savings habits
-How her ties to her church and her belief in God inspire her financial planning
-How she spends differently as an entrepreneur compared to her previous career working on Wall Street
-Her belief that money is meant to be a servant, not a master
-How she uses money to support her values
In Whitney’s lesson you will learn:
-Every tie you spend money you are voting on the kind of world you want
-The importance of modeling financial spending for your children
In Whitney’s money tip you will learn:
-Ways to teach kids about investing
-How to buy fractions of a share of stock
-Whitney recommends an app called Stockpile
-How Whitney looks to the theories of Peter Lynch and advocates buying what you know and use and value, and to couple your investing behavior with your consumer behavior.
In my take you will learn:
-How allowing your values to guide your financial life can be rewarding
-Why disrupting your life to better align it with your financial values is something people at any income level should consider
-How you can be pro-active in taking down barriers for your bosses, to create better odds of them giving a green light to your goals
-How I got my bosses to allow me to work a 4-day week for years, by removing barriers and creating solutions before I approached them.
Episode Links
Twitter - @johnsonwhitney
Facebook - facebook.com/johnsonwhitneyauthor
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/whitneyjohnson/
Get Whitney’s new book: Build an A Team: Play to Their Strengths and Lead Them Up the Learning Curve. Free chapter download available at https://whitneyjohnson.com/ateam
Stockpile
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast, or download the app.
Whitney Johnson:
"I tithe, I pay 10% of our gross income to God, to our church," and he was just like, "Okay, you've got a problem here because this isn't going to happen in addition to some of your other financial goals that you have." That was a really important wake-up call for me.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Well, despite the clip you heard at the top of this episode, today's podcast is not about religion, but it is about values, and leveraging your money and your financial resources to support what you and your family believe in. Whitney Johnson's new book is called Build an A-Team: Play to Their Strengths and Lead Them Up the Learning Curve. She is also the author of the bestseller Disrupt Yourself: Putting the Power of Disruptive Innovation to Work, and she hosts, you get the theme here, the Disrupt Yourself Podcast.
Bobbi Rebell:
In this case, the story that she's going to share, Whitney disrupted her entire family life, downsizing everything to get to her financial goals and to have the financial resources to support what she and her family value. She lives what she preaches. Here is Whitney Johnson. Whitney Johnson, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
Whitney Johnson:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, I do want to congratulate you on your new book. It is Build an A-Team and we're going to talk more about that going forward, but just high level, what's it about?
Whitney Johnson:
Build an A-Team is about helping you as a manager build a team that can manage through change, that can be innovative and high performing, and the key is to let your people learn. When you allow them to learn, leap, and repeat, they are engaged and therefore happy, they love coming to work, they're more productive, and they love working for you, so you become a great place to work and a boss people love.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's great. For your money story, though, we're going talk about you and your team, which includes your husband and includes your financial planner, and an incident that happened when you got a call from your financial planner. You weren't achieving a goal that was really important to you. Tell us your money story.
Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. This happened about 15 years ago. I got a call from my financial planner and he said to me, "You are spending way too much money." It was really a wake-up call for me, because I was having the conversation with him of like, "I tithe, I pay 10% of our gross income to God, to our church," and he was just like, "Okay, you've got a problem here because this isn't going to happen in addition to some of your other financial goals that you have." That was a really important wake-up call for me, that I really needed to think about, "Okay, it's really great that you can earn lots of money, but you have to also basically manage your money and not just think about what you're earning. You have to also think about what you're spending and spend less than you're actually earning." That was a really important lesson for me and really started to shift how I was thinking about money, not only what I was earning, but also what I was saving.
Bobbi Rebell:
What was important to you was that 10%. I want to pick up on that, because in your heart one of the things that you really prioritize is giving to causes that you believe in, to religious causes, to God, as you say. That was really your priority and you weren't able to accomplish that, or you would not have been able to continue to accomplish that if you didn't change your ways.
Whitney Johnson:
Absolutely. It's such a great point because when I was thinking about the fact that I wasn't managing my money, a lot of times it was exactly to causes or people or things that I cared about, so it's not like I was being profligate, and yet if I didn't manage my money, those things that were deeply important to me, education for my children, et cetera, were not going to be a possibility, and that was a very important wake-up call for me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Were there things that you could pull out that you were able to change? What did you do to pivot from there?
Whitney Johnson:
I had become an entrepreneur at this point and I was still spending like I wasn't an entrepreneur. I was still working on Wall Street, and so one of the things that we did is we made some really tough decisions. Over the next year, we decided to downsize and to sell our house, and to really pare back on how we were spending our money in that interim so that we could still buy the things that mattered to us, but then also undertake these entrepreneurial ventures that were also important to us.
Bobbi Rebell:
And maintain a culture and a family life and setting an example, for the rest of your family, of giving.
Whitney Johnson:
Absolutely, 100%, because that is a high, high priority for me and for my husband and for our entire family, is to be able to give to others.
Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from that?
Whitney Johnson:
Most of us have a pretty ... not most, many, probably including myself, have a fairly froth relationship with money. We're like, "Is it good? Is it bad?" And it's not either, and so a couple of lessons that I've learned is that money is meant to be a servant, not a master, and that I, and this is a gradual lesson that I've been learning throughout my life, is to remember that that's the case. And that also the more money we're able to not only earn, but the more we extend our ability to do good beyond our physical presence, and so those are becoming mantras for me, but really guiding principles in terms of how I think about money saving tactically day-to-day, and spending, I should say, as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
And the importance of not only thinking about growing your business and buying things, but also the values that money can help you support.
Whitney Johnson:
Absolutely. I mean, one of the things, there was a quote that I remember reading probably about seven or eight years ago now, which is really, again, a bit of a watchword for me. It was Anna Lappé and she said that every time you spend money, you're voting on the kind of world that you want. That has been a really powerful thing for me. One, a dollar, $10, what kind of world am I saying I want with this money that I've just spent or allocated to whatever I allocated it to? That's just a really important thing to me and something that we're trying to instill in our children as well.
Bobbi Rebell:
You also have a wonderful money tip, and this is great especially when you talk about children. It's always hard to teach children to invest because sometimes stocks are really expensive and you can't always buy. I can think of Berkshire Hathaway, obviously as the most extreme example perhaps, but a lot of stocks, they don't split and they're very expensive to buy individual stocks. They just start buying 100 shares of a stock, so talk to me about your money tip, because it has to do with investing. It's something that is often applicable when children want to start learning about investing.
Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. One of the really wonderful boons of the last couple of years is you can buy fractional shares. You don't have to buy 100 shares. You don't even have to buy 10 shares. You can buy a half a share. There's something called Stockpile, stockpile.com, that you can go on there and say, "Okay, I want to spend $300," and so you can spend $300 on Apple or $300 on Tesla. Or just to other day for my son, for his birthday, he wanted to buy Spotify, and so I was like, "Okay, $300. We'll buy some Spotify stock." I don't actually know how much it costs, but you can buy a half a share, a quarter of a share, a tenth of a share, but it's just based on how much money you want to spend.
Whitney Johnson:
So it's a great way to start investing in the stock market and really building on an idea that Peter Lynch pioneered 20, 30 years ago now, which is to buy what it is you know and use and value, and couple your investing behavior with your consumer behavior, and fractional shares, and Stockpile specifically, allows you to do that.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. All right. Let's talk about your new book because it is coming out pretty much now. It's called Build an A-Team. It's a follow up to Disrupt Yourself, which was a huge, huge hit and relatable to so many people, especially myself, having disrupted myself in the last few years professionally. Tell me more about Build an A-Team.
Whitney Johnson:
Well, Build an A-Team came about because people had read Disrupt Yourself and said, "Okay. I get it. I got it. I'm willing to disrupt myself, but what about the people around me? How do I create an ecosystem that makes that possible?" So in Build an A-Team I make it possible for you to think about, "Okay, how do I create a workplace or an environment, a team where personal disruption is possible?" Then I flip it on its head and say, "Okay, so to you, the manager, you don't want just your people to be disputing themselves willy-nilly. What's in it for you?"
Whitney Johnson:
So I make the case that every single person is on a learning curve, including you, the manager, and you build that team that can innovate, that can manage through change by managing your team as a collection of S curves or learning curves, and optimize by having about 70% of your people in the middle at any given time, 15% at the low end, and 15% of your people at the high end. And when they get to the high of their learning curve, you allow them to disrupt themselves because by doing that, they start over that cycle of learn, leap, and repeat, and whenever people are learning, they're able to be innovative. When they're learning, they're innovative, and so you as a company can stay competitive, and because they're so happy at work, they love working for you as a boss, and so you become a talent magnet.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let me just ask you, if you are the employee, because a lot of our listeners are younger and starting out in their careers, if you are on the curve and you recognize that you're at the top of your curve, do you approach your manager and say, "I basically want a different job within the organization"? I mean, what do you do?
Whitney Johnson:
Obviously there are going to be risks in doing that. You've got to really suss out your boss. I think one of the ways that you can do that is, "Does it make sense for me to have this conversation with my boss?" What's that boss' track record? Do they have a history of people who have worked for them in the past, it's been possible for them to move on to other opportunities for which the boss advocated, that they've sponsored them into those opportunities? Then you can be pretty comfortable that having that conversation with them is a safe thing to do. You also, before you have that conversation, want to make sure that in fact you are ready to ... sometimes we overestimate our abilities. We all do it. We think we really want it, and so therefore it's time for us to have it.
Whitney Johnson:
So in having that conversation, what I would encourage you to do is go to your boss and say, "I've been in this role for about three years. It feels like I'm starting to peak and I've really hit my stride, and it's time for me to try something new, so here's what I would propose and here's the business case for why it makes sense for me to do it, because it's not just about me. It's going to help our organization be more innovative, and in the process I've identified this person over here that I think can really step into this role nicely, so you will not be left in the lurch. I will help train that successor so that they're able to continue to grow and develop. And at the same time I'm able to grow and develop as well as help our organization and our team be more innovative, and so that would be my suggestion to you."
Bobbi Rebell:
Anticipate what's going to go wrong and make sure you have a solution for every possible iteration. All right. Whitney Johnson, where can people find you?
Whitney Johnson:
You can find me at whitneyjohnson.com. If you want to email me, it's wj@whitneyjohnson.com. I would love to hear from you.
Bobbi Rebell:
And you have, by the way, a million, I heard a million LinkedIn followers.
Whitney Johnson:
I do, 1.2 million, actually, but I'm not counting.
Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. You are our hero, Whitney Johnson. I will leave all of your social media links in the show notes, but just so we have them here, Twitter, Instagram, all that stuff?
Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. Johnson Whitney, actually. It's Johnson Whitney.
Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Good to know. Exactly. That's why we ask. All right. You're wonderful. Thank you so much, and congratulations on the new book.
Whitney Johnson:
Thank you, Bobbi, for having me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Don't you feel so motivated by Whitney, like anything is possible if you know think it through and get really intentional?
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one, let your values be a guide to how you want to not just spend your money, but spend your life. Whitney literally disrupted her entire life, her family downsized, and I don't have Whitney's personal financial info, but I'm guessing she does pretty well, so this is not really about income level. It's about allocation of your resources, whatever they are, to support the way you want to live your life and the role model you want to be for your family. In Whitney's case, it was about tithing to her church and other things that her family valued, like education and financial security and financial freedom.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, get intentional about your career goals. You probably think you are, but be honest. Are you proactively doing something to remove barriers? Put yourself in your bosses' position and think about what they need to get you what you want. If you own a business, your clients are basically your bosses. Yeah, sorry, but kind of. Right? So come with solutions.
Bobbi Rebell:
When I wanted to work, for example, four days a week after having my son, I presented my bosses with the solution. My colleague, who was, fun fact, Manoush Zomorodi that many of you may know as the host of the Note to Self podcast, was also having her son. We gave birth, in fact, two days apart in the same hospital. Manoush agreed to be my Friday fill in. We presented a complete solution, and it was tough for the bosses to turn down something that was already good to go, especially with someone as wonderful as Manoush.
Bobbi Rebell:
Now Whitney is giving us the first chapter of her new book Build an A-Team: Play to Their Strengths and Lead Them Up the Learning Curve for free to download. Just go to whitneyjohnson.com/ateam and you can get that download, so start there for free and then go pick up a copy of the whole book ASAP. Build an A-Team has tons of specific examples in it that will give you a lot of aha moments of how bosses think and need to think, and it is well worth the time you will invest in reading it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Just a reminder, we are excited to start our once a month listener episode, so if you want to be a guest on Financial Grownup, email us with your money story and your money tip to info@financialgrownup.com. Make sure you are on our mailing list. Go to our website, bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. You'll get a pop up and you can sign up. Be in touch on Twitter, @bobbirebell, and on Instagram, at bobbirebell1. Whitney Johnson gave us so much to think about. Here is to us all getting one step closer to being financial grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
Canadian rower Jeremiah Brown, author of “The 4 Year Olympian” had a dream- to make it to the Olympics in four years- without sinking into debt. That meant downsizing, living lean, and learning how to get the most financial support possible for his athletic ambitions.
In Jeremiah’s money story you will learn:
-How Jeremiah funded his Olympic dream on a 4 year timetable
-Specifically how he cut his expenses despite having a young child to support
-The funding he got from the Canadian government and how the system works to support athletes
-How he estimated the funding he would need, and then worked towards that goal
- The strategy he used to negotiate extra leave from his job with TD Ameritrade
In Jeremiah’s money lesson you will learn:
-The importance of financial planning for the psychological well-being of athletes
-Not to defer your life dreams for fear of missing out on short term financial goals
-How to get the support of your employer for a big personal goal or project
In Jeremiah’s money tip you will learn:
-One way to save money each and every time you buy food outside the home
-How being both budget conscious and environmentally conscious can go hand in hand
In my take you will learn:
-The importance of sharing money lessons in the moment with your kids
-How asking for a little more from your employer can pay off
Episode Links
Jeremiah’s website: https://the4yearolympian.com/
Get Jeremiah’s book The 4 Year Olympian
Follow Jeremiah!
Twitter @JeremiahFBrown
Instagram: @brownjf24
LinkedIn Jeremiah Brown
Facebook The4yearOlympian
TD Ameritrade
Transcription
Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free out transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.
Jeremiah Brown:
I've seen so many athletes, it's going to be the hardest thing you do in your life, just to get to the Olympics. The last thing you need is to see yourself going into the red, accumulating debt. The psychology is already hard enough. You don't need something else like that distracting you.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends, very excited about today's guest. We have our first Olympian on Financial Grownup, our first athlete overall, in fact, Jeremiah Brown. He won a silver medal as part of the Canadian rowing team at the London Olympics and wrote a book about it called The Four Year Olympian. But if you met him earlier in his life, you most likely would never have predicted that kind of achievement. At 17 he came very close, in fact, to going to prison. He was a father at 19, and there's a lot more to the story. I will let him take it from here. Here is Jeremiah Brown. Jeremiah Brown, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.
Jeremiah Brown:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so excited because, Jeremiah, you are the first athlete that we have had, and you are also a silver medal winner in the Olympics, so congratulations on that.
Jeremiah Brown:
Thank you, I'm honored to bring maybe a different perspective.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, well you're also out with an amazing book, The Four Year Olympian, which is talking about how you got there in just four years, and it's a story of perseverance and grit and determination, but also, financial planning, which is part of why I wanted to have you on the podcast. Tell us your money story and how that helped you become an Olympic silver medalist.
Jeremiah Brown:
Yeah, let me set the scene for you. I was 23 years old. I was in my first job at a bank as an analyst. I had this dream to go to the Olympics, and I had this problem of how I was going to fund that dream. I also had a young son at the time, I started early in life, and I was thinking, "How am I going to pay for his daycare?" Which was $800 a month. You know, my housing costs, which at the time I was renting a nice house at this lake in Victoria, in British Columbia, Canada. That was costing me, I think, $1500 a month. So I had this cost of living that I needed to ratchet down if I was going to be able to figure out how to fund my Olympic dream.
Jeremiah Brown:
So what did I end up doing? Well, I saved every penny of my disposable income for a full year from my job. I moved from that expensive rental into a really small condo, it was 500 square feet, so it was pretty tight for ...
Bobbi Rebell:
With your son?
Jeremiah Brown:
Yeah, with my son and his mom, there were three of us.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow!
Jeremiah Brown:
We were in this shoebox condo. But eventually I got, like my housing cost was down to about $600 a month. Then I was able to make it work just to train that first full year with the national team before I was able to get the federal funding that really only brought me up to $18000 a year, but it was able to cover my basic costs.
Bobbi Rebell:
So Canada has some funding for athletes? Just tell us briefly, explain that.
Jeremiah Brown:
Yeah, so Canada, once you get to the senior national team level and you're competing internationally in your sport, if it's an Olympic sport, the federal government will give you, it's called carding, it's a monthly stipend. When I was competing it was $1500 a month was the most you could get. It's very similar to the US. They have different amounts down there, but it's a similar kind of system.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you had four years, which goes to your book, four years to get to the Olympics. How much would you say you invested in preparing for the Olympics? What does it cost to get to the Olympics starting basically from scratch?
Jeremiah Brown:
It depends on how you do it. So for me, I knew I was going to need about $12000 of my own money to cover the shortfall in the first year. So when I first started I was going to get a little bit of funding from the government, I knew that, it was called development funding. Then the whole plan hinged on me performing better and better over time and getting up to that higher level of funding. So I was able to come through this without any debt and with expenses of each of those years of about, I'd say, between $25000 and $30000 of core living expenses. Then the team covered the travel and they provided some of the training, and some of the other expenses were already covered. So I just lived lean, and luckily as an athlete you're training so much that you're not spending a lot of money either.
Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and it's also psychological, it's important psychologically that you not be stressed out about money.
Jeremiah Brown:
It's huge. I've seen so many athletes who, it's going to be the hardest thing you do in your life anyways, just to try to get to the Olympics, and the last thing you need is to see yourself going into the red accumulating debt. The psychology is already hard enough, you don't need something else like that distracting you.
Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us more about the lesson here for people, for our listeners who have goals that they want to reach, especially when there's a very finite timeline, I mean, it was four years, that was it, there was a definite structure to this. It wasn't like you just wanted to go on forever. You wanted to reach this goal.
Jeremiah Brown:
I'm like you, Bobbi, and probably a lot of your listeners in that I think of myself as trying to be financially responsible, and I was thinking of my longterm plan, and what was my retirement horizon, and how much did I need to invest and all that. But I think sometimes when we get in this rut of totally deferring everything and becoming a slave to this sense of financial responsibility, and I think, I guess my lesson for the listeners is that you can do these, you can chase these personal dreams without it totally destroying your financial plan. I'm back on track to where I was pre-games. I think if you have a well planned strategy and you're willing to invest in yourself at any stage of life, it's something you're not going to regret.
Bobbi Rebell:
What was the reaction when you kind of left your job and said, "This is what I'm going to do."
Jeremiah Brown:
Well, it's funny, when you try to do this, like when you're chasing incredible goals, in fact, people around you all rally around you. The bank actually supported me, they said, "Okay, you can take a leave of absence." I ended up taking, I think it was a record for this bank, it's TD Bank, one of the biggest banks in Canada, and I think I ended up being on a leave of absence for 18 months, and the policy was up to six months, so they were really behind me and they actually supported what I wanted to do.
Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, congratulations so much, it's so exciting, and I love the fact that you actually came back with a medal, because sometimes people invest so much and unfortunately they don't turn out as well as your dreams did. So I just wanted to make sure to really congratulate you, it's just amazing. And congratulations on your book, we're going to talk more about that in one sec. I want to get your money tip though, because you talked about your young son, your son is now 12 years old, tell us your money tip because it has to do with when you're out with your son.
Jeremiah Brown:
All right, so my son and I, you know, we travel quite a bit for his sports.
Bobbi Rebell:
Is he a rower also?
Jeremiah Brown:
Well, not yet. But he's playing basketball, he's on the city basketball team for his age group. So we're going to tournaments a lot, we're traveling for his sports, and yeah, we need to stop and we need to eat while we're on the road. One of the ways I try to teach him and save money is to just ask for a cup of water at the restaurant, whether it's a fast food place or anywhere, just say, "Can I just have a glass of tap water?" Maybe it's a little embarrassing for him, but it's just trying to teach him that you can save incrementally here and there and that's a good place to do it. Don't buy the $4 or $5 fountain pop, just get a cup of water, it's free, and enjoy your meal. And healthier and better for the environment.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's a really good point, I'm glad you said that, because all of those plastic bottles are very bad for our environment, and sometimes they can even give it to you in a glass, not a disposable cup, which is even better. So it's important to save money and save the environment. Tell me more now about The Four Year Olympian, your new book.
Jeremiah Brown:
Okay, so this book, it's The Four Year Olympian, and it took me five years to write the book about the story.
Bobbi Rebell:
So, wait, wait, it took you longer to write the book about your four year journey to the Olympics than it did to get to the Olympics?
Jeremiah Brown:
It did. It was the second hardest thing I've done in my life, and it was just difficult in a different way, it's sort of an intellectual kind of masochism as opposed to just a brutal physical and mental effort. So it's essentially a memoir from when I became a young father at the age of 19 and I was faced with this, to me it felt like a predictable path in life, and I still felt like I had potential as an athlete. I went and chased this dream, and really the book is an exposition on overcoming self doubt, and what happens when you enslave yourself to a goal, like I did.
Bobbi Rebell:
You allude to struggle there, I know you were a young father, it sounds like it was unexpected, what other struggles did you have earlier in life?
Jeremiah Brown:
Well, I got into a little bit of trouble when I was 17. I guess I technically was a juvenile delinquent. I took a prank too far in high school and I was actually facing some prison time. I had to go through this court process. What I did was I actually, I stole some pittas from a Pita Pit delivery person with a friend, and we thought it was just going to be something we could laugh off. But I ended up going through this whole process of facing actual prison time, and it was a really pivotal time in my life where I thought, "Geez, you know, I'm a good kid, I just screwed up, and this is not who I am." So I came out of that with a bit of a chip on my shoulder and I wanted to prove to myself and to others, you know, as a young man back then, I just wanted to show that I had way more potential than sort of the reputation that I'd gained after that slip-up.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you have certainly proven yourself, Jeremiah, we are so happy for you and so excited to read more about your journey in your book, The Four Year Olympian, where else can people follow you and learn more about you and all of your current successes and your future successes? Because we're so excited to see what you do next.
Jeremiah Brown:
The best place people can find me is going to the book website: the4yearolympian.com, that's with a numeral 4, and you can find me there.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful, and on social media?
Jeremiah Brown:
I'm on Twitter, @JeremiahFBrown, and I'm on Instagram, just started, I'm working on it.
Bobbi Rebell:
Baby steps, it's okay.
Jeremiah Brown:
That's BrownJF24.
Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your story and being a part of Financial Grownup. We really loved having you.
Jeremiah Brown:
Thank you, Bobbi.
Bobbi Rebell:
Jeremiah was able to focus on his training because he had a financial plan in place, and he is right, for athletes or anyone working intensely towards a goal, financial stress is one distraction you don't want to be fighting up against. Financial Grownup tip number one: don't be so quick to quit your job to live your dream if you can avoid it. Jeremiah took a leave of absence, and because he had been a strong employee and was valued by his company, because he got them on board and they were with the program, he was able to take a much longer leave of absence than was in their official corporate policy. He knew he had something to go back to when he needed it if he wanted. Don't assume your employer will stick to the exact policy and won't give you more if you ask. Ask, the worst they could say is no. But having their support and having the financial security of knowing you have a job to go back to, if you want to try something like going for the Olympics, is going to be priceless.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: don't keep your money saving tips to yourself, including your kids. Jeremiah's tip about asking for a cup of tap water instead of buying soda or bottled water was spot on. But even better was the fact that he was teaching his 12-year-old son painless ways to save money.
Bobbi Rebell:
Great episode from Jeremiah. Don't forget to pick up his book, The Four Year Olympian. It is brutally honest and will really take you into what it takes to reach the podium at the Olympics or achieve any big dream that maybe seems impossible at the time. Hit the subscribe button if you have not already and be in touch on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook my author page is Bobbi Rebell. And if you want to be a guest on the show, a reminder, we are going to start having listener episodes once a month. Send us your money story and your money tip that you would share, to: info@financialgrownup.com to be considered. I hope you all enjoyed Olympic silver medalist, Jeremiah Brown's story, and that we all got one step closer to being Financial Grownups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
When Melanie Lockert and her business partner Emma Pattee launched the Lola Retreat in 2017, profits were at the bottom of their list. So low they did not even try to get sponsors until just a few weeks before the event. What happened then was shocking. Plus a money tip for the luxury lover.
In Melanie’s money story you will learn:
-The behind-the-scenes decisions that went into the launch of the Lola Retreat
-Why the creators of Lola prioritized content over profit
-How the last-minute decision to reach out for sponsorship took Lola from a money-losing venture into a profitable ongoing business
-Why they chose not to outsource as they were building the Lola Retreat
-The technique Melanie Lockert and her partner Emma Pattee used to attract sponsors to her first-ever Lola Retreat
In Melanie’s money lesson you will learn:
-The importance of actually asking for what you want
-How to leverage your reputation to build a new business
-How positive thinking even in tough times helped Melanie achieve her goals.
-Melanie’s new approach to negotiation
In Melanie’s money tip you will learn:
-Where to get luxury beauty services at a fraction of the cost
In my take you will learn:
-Why you should aim high when asking for money
-How smaller,niche events can offer great marketing value for even the largest companies
-Ways to save money on services by going to students in places like cooking schools and design schools, in addition to the beauty schools that Melanie discussed
Follow Melanie!
Twitter @deardebtblog @LolaRetreat
Instagram @deardebt @lolaretreat
Facebook Melanie Lockert
Melanie’s Dear Debt blog
Get Melanie’s book Dear Debt
Learn more about lolaretreat.com
Fidelity.com
FinancialGym.com
Kristin Wong is at TheWildWong.com
Erin Lowry/Broke Millennial is at https://brokemillennial.com/
Transcription
Melanie Lockert:
Something completely shocking happened. We actually did get several thousand dollars of sponsorships within three weeks of the event, and we even got our last sponsor three days before the event. It was just a crazy experience for me.
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grown Up. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. You guys know that song, "Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets." Well, the reality is sometimes Lola has to actually ask for it. That is the irony of the story you are about to hear from Melanie Lockert. She is well-known from her blog and her book, Dear Debt, where she chronicled her feelings about the $81,000 of debt that she was saddled with. Melanie is also the co-founder of the Lola Retreat, and yes, the name was inspired by that song, because it is meant to be about women getting whatever they want. While the event is meant to teach attendees how to empower themselves financially, when planning her first conference, Melanie had to learn some lessons of her own in that regard. Here is Melanie Lockert.
Bobbi Rebell:
Melanie Lockert, you are a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.
Melanie Lockert:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Bobbi Rebell:
People know you from your Dear Debt blog, your Dear Debt book, and your newest project, which we will talk about more at the end of the podcast. Just briefly, what is Lola Retreat, because I know it's happening very soon.
Melanie Lockert:
Yeah. Lola Retreat is a women and money event, and it is a weekend full of education and workshop and panels to empower women to rock their finances.
Bobbi Rebell:
I wanted you to explain what it is because the money story that you're going to talk about has to do with it, and it has to do with year one, which was just last year, and how you've monetized the event and what you did right and what you maybe would do differently and are doing differently this time.
Melanie Lockert:
Yeah, totally. I had such a great money lesson last year. With the retreat, there was so much going on in regards to programming and attendees, and I was so focused on getting the content really wonderful and making sure that we got the venue right, the speakers and everything that sponsors were not really on my mind. I really just wanted to make sure that it was the best even possible, right?
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and when you say sponsors, you were just funding it purely on the admission that you were charging people?
Melanie Lockert:
Our ticket sales were really getting invested back into the event, so we didn't really know if we were going to make money on this event or not. Three weeks before the event, Emma, my colleague, talked to me, and she was like, "Melanie, we're going to breakeven right now, so if you want to make some money on this event, either we're going to have to cut back or be happy with breaking even." I was like, "I don't like either of those answers. I don't want to cut back because this is our first event, and it needs to be super amazing, and I also want to make some money, even if it's just one dollar." I really needed just that symbolic metaphor that I made a profit, so I was like, "How am I going to do this?" I was like, "I'm going to approach sponsors. People sponsor events all the time. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to approach sponsors, I don't know anything about it, but I'm going to go find some money." In the back of my mind, I thought, "Oh my goodness. It's three weeks before the event. I haven't contacted anybody about sponsorship money. It's too late."
Bobbi Rebell:
Had you guys discussed the concept of sponsors at all? Had it ever occurred to you before this?
Melanie Lockert:
We kind of did, but it was really at the bottom of our list. We really were just focused on making sure the programming was amazing and making sure all of the programmatic details were really in place.
Bobbi Rebell:
So just to be clear, it's not that you were trying and sponsors were rejecting, you just literally had not tried. Did you think about outsourcing it to somebody else, or it just slipped through the cracks?
Melanie Lockert:
It slipped through the cracks. It was something that we didn't really focus on at all. We didn't contact anyone about it until three weeks, and in the back of my mind, I was like, "Oh my goodness. It's three weeks before the event. There's no way anybody's going to give us any money at this point it's too late." But I wanted to do it anyways just so I could cross it off my list and say that I did it, and be like, "Okay, well, I tried to get money. It didn't happen, whatever," but something completely shocking happened. We actually did get several thousand dollars of sponsorships within three weeks of the event, and we even got our last sponsor three days before the event, and so it was just a crazy experience for me.
Bobbi Rebell:
Can you talk a little bit about how much money you got in sponsorships and maybe speculate what you think you may have left on the table had you tried earlier?
Melanie Lockert:
We did get several thousand dollars worth of sponsorships. I don't want to get into specifics, but I definitely know we did leave some money on the table.
Bobbi Rebell:
You made a profit of more than a dollar first of all, to be clear.
Melanie Lockert:
Yes, we did.
Bobbi Rebell:
That's excellent.
Melanie Lockert:
We did.
Bobbi Rebell:
You think you left money on the table?
Melanie Lockert:
I do think we left money on the table because, first of all, we did give sponsorships at a discount because it was so late, number one. Number two, there's only so much you can do in three weeks, so we didn't have really the time to foster that kind of outreach and sponsorship beforehand, and I think if we would've had more time to dedicate earlier on that we could've had more sponsorship money and really been able to fund the event in a better way.
Bobbi Rebell:
What did you do differently in year two?
Melanie Lockert:
This year we've definitely worked on approaching sponsors earlier. I'm happy to say that we're going to be working with Fidelity on a welcome reception for Lola Retreat year two. I'm super excited about that. They are a wonderful company, and they've always supported women and money. We're definitely working with a lot of scholarship sponsors this year. That makes me super happy because the scholarship sponsorship is near and dear to my heart. Essentially people sponsor a lovely lady to come to the event who wouldn't be able to otherwise come, so they get to read over the scholarship applications and they get to pick who they think would be a good fit to come to the event. It's really interactive, it's really an affordable sponsorship too, and at the end of the day it's one less ticket that I need to sell, so we've been focusing on that a lot as well, which is fun for me, and I really enjoy that part of it.
Melanie Lockert:
Yeah, I think this year we've had kind of more time to focus and more outreach, and then really focus on big partners. We've loved to work with Fidelity this year and continue working with sponsors that really align with our values.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson now? I know that we are still a couple weeks away from Lola Retreat. What is the lesson for our listeners about this? What's the takeaway?
Melanie Lockert:
The lesson is that you should always ask, and you should really check yourself if you think there's no way that you can do something because in my mind, I had already made up the fact that, "Oh, no one's going to give me money. It's too late. It's three weeks before the event. Why would anyone take me seriously?" Mind you, it was scary because in year one, this was before the event, we had nothing to show for it. We had no photos, we had no testimonials, we just had a website essentially. We had nothing.
Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you also had your reputation. You had a very strong reputation, as does your partner.
Melanie Lockert:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
You did have that. That's a lot.
Melanie Lockert:
Yes, we did have that, which is definitely helpful, but from an event standpoint we had nothing necessarily to show, "Here are the testimonials, here are what people said, here are photos, here's impressions from the social media from that weekend." We had nothing concrete to show, and so in my mind it was like, "No one's going to take us seriously. No one's going to give us money," and I just had already made up my mind, but I was so shocked kind of how easy it was. I mean, it wasn't super easy, but it wasn't that difficult either.
Bobbi Rebell:
People said yes.
Melanie Lockert:
People said yes more than they said no actually.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.
Melanie Lockert:
I think I was just so passionate about women and money and doing this event, and I think people could see the grit and the passion in my words, and they can understand the idea. People were willing to invest in that idea, and those initial sponsors, I'm so grateful for because they really believed in us and our idea from the beginning when we had nothing to show. I'm really grateful for them, and then it just proved to me, like what other areas of my life am I convinced that, "Oh, this isn't going to work out, or this wouldn't happen," but if I just try, maybe it will. Actually, this is a reoccurring lesson for me. I actually when I was a non-profit employee before becoming self-employed, I had never asked for a raise once. Not once. I'm so ashamed that I've never negotiated my salary until becoming self-employed, because as a self-employed person, you have to learn to negotiate or you will not survive. This is kind of a reoccurring money lesson for me is that I have to know what I'm worth, and I have to negotiate, and I have to ask, and really at the end of the day, the worst thing people are going to say is no. No one's going to laugh at your idea and say you're stupid and call you ridiculous and think, "Wow, you think you're something else," or "you think you're a bigshot."
Melanie Lockert:
No one's going to say that. They're just going to say, "No, we can't do that." It's really okay. I'm really trying to push my boundaries and figure out other areas of my life that I can push and really kind of change the game a little bit.
Bobbi Rebell:
Let me just ask you before we get to your money tip. In terms of the money, you made a few thousand dollars in year one. In terms of how much more you're going to make this year, can you give me some idea of how the results changed when you were more purposeful in asking for sponsorships?
Melanie Lockert:
That's a good question. That's still TBD because we still have a lot of expenses that are going to be in the queue in the next coming weeks, but projecting right now it looks like hopefully double what we made last year, which would be really amazing, but like I said, we're not totally sure because there are a lot of last minute expenses that come up towards the end. We will see how everything shakes out, but I'm feeling pretty good about everything right now.
Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about your money tip because this one is brilliant, and I never thought of this. This is really original, and it's something that can let us all have our luxuries and indulgences, but within our budgets, or even just to save money for other things that we want to do even if we're not on a tight budget, so it's nice to spend a little bit less for luxuries in life. Do tell.
Melanie Lockert:
Totally. Yeah. My money tip is to go to a beauty school for haircuts, pedicures, manicures, or massages or facials. When I was paying off debt, I didn't really have extra money to do anything, but I still wanted to treat myself at least once a year to something, especially when I hit a big debt milestone, right? I found this beauty school in Portland, and the rates were so insanely cheap because all of them were students, and before you get scared, they do have kind of more professional level people there working alongside the students to make sure they don't mess up. I remember I paid like $35 for a pedicure, a manicure, and a facial.
Bobbi Rebell:
Total.
Melanie Lockert:
Total, and I'm pretty sure the school had a policy that you couldn't tip either because it was a school, so it was super affordable. It was really affordable. My money tip is to find a local beauty school in your area and see what services they offer. It could be much, much cheaper and at a fraction of a cost, and at least in my personal experience, it was wonderful. If you have a specific person that you love or specific things then maybe that's not necessarily the best tip for you, but for me, the services were completely comparable and totally worth it.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Let's talk about the Lola Retreat. It is in my hometown, New York City, this year.
Melanie Lockert:
Yay, I'm so excited.
Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more.
Melanie Lockert:
Yeah, it's going to be at the Financial Gym, so Shannon McLeigh, the CEO and founder of The Financial Gym is one of my best friends.
Bobbi Rebell:
And she was on the podcast last week.
Melanie Lockert:
Yes, she is amazing, and she has graciously agreed to host us in New York city, so Lola Retreat is at The Financial Gym April 27th through the 29th, and we are going to have sessions on how to pay off debt, how to get started with investing, how to level up your money with Kristin Wong. We also have Get Your Financial Life together with Erin Lowry. We also have some really interesting panels on how to prepare and deal with financial disaster as well as this concept of F Off Funds. I won't curse on the podcast, but it's especially important for women, especially right now for women to have a separate stash of cash to be able to say, "F you," in a situation that is not healthy, whether it's a workplace scenario, a relationship scenario. I think it's so important, so I'm really excited about the content that we have, and so excited to meet our lovely ladies. Yeah, I think it's going to be a wonderful weekend.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where should I send people to sign up for Lola and to be in touch with you?
Melanie Lockert:
People can go to LolaRetreat.com and check it out. People can also find me at DearDebt.com.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Melanie Lockert, Lola Retreat. Can't wait to get there. It's going to be amazing. Thank you so much.
Melanie Lockert:
Yes, thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Loved hearing how far Melanie and her partner have come in just one year of the Lola Conference. Here's my take, Financial Grown Up tip number one. Aim high. In year one, Melanie didn't think she would get any sponsors. She was shy just about reaching out to anyone at all, but here we are, just year two, just a second year, and she has incredible brand. She has Fidelity, guys. Sensei, Shopkick, and of course The Financial Gym, so don't write off a large company assuming they will only sponsor large events. They will find, often, a lot of value in smaller, targeted, specific events that have engaged and invested audiences as is the case with Lola.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up tip number two, be creative when it comes to treating yourself. If you're feeling deprived financially because you never get to do anything, you are much more likely to cheat, just like on a food diet. Melanie talked about going to beauty schools for things like manicures, massages, facials, all that good spa stuff, but sticking to the theme of students, you can also, for example, have a great meal at a cooking school, or if you're redoing your home or redecorating one of the rooms but have a limited budget, consider getting a student from a local design school involved, and just think, you could be someone's final graduation project. You never know.
Bobbi Rebell:
All right, if you enjoyed Melanie's story, please hit the subscribe button, and if you have just a few minutes, leave a review on Apple podcast. They really do make a difference in getting the word out. I am also working on getting better at sending out my newsletters, so if you are not already on the list, get on the list. Just go to BobbiRebell.com. While you're there you can check out previous episodes by clicking on Financial Grown Up Podcast, and of course, be in touch. I'm on Twitter @BobbiRebell, Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and my author page on Facebook is Bobbi Rebell. I hope you guys all head out and treat yourselves to some affordable indulgences just like Melanie, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grown ups.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.
John Schwartz, NY Times correspondent and author of the new book “This Is the Year I Put My Financial Life in Order” shares the story of his first home purchase, how it brought him to the brink of bankruptcy, and why he flosses every day.
In John’s money story you will learn:
-How John’s seemingly solid real estate investment went downhill
-How the rights of tenants can put owners in losing positions
-The specific financial steps John took ahead of a likely bankruptcy filing
-The factors that went into John’s decision about bankruptcy
In John’s lesson you will learn:
-Why John says failure is not the end of your financial life
-How John and his family rebuilt their life
-The specific steps John took to financially protect his second home
-What he would and would not have done differently in buying real estate
-The impact of a broad-economic downturn on individuals like John, and how you can create some protection as a home owner
In John’s money tip you will learn:
-The one health tip that John says will save you a ton of money
-The importance of daily health habits to avoid massive medical bills
-How his life informed his book “The is the Year I Put my Financial Life in Order” and how the book came together
-Why John did not have a will until his late 50’s
-John’s advice on retirement savings
In my take you will learn:
-Real Estate is a high stakes game, that should be entered into with eyes wide open
-My take on what John could have done differently
-The choice my family made to avoid investing in a property that would be hard to sell
-Why I still believe owning real estate is a great opportunity, despite the tax law changes
Follow John!
Twitter: @JSwatz
Facebook: This is the Year Schwartz
Buy John’s book!! : This is the Year I Put My Financial Life in Order !
Transcription
John Schwartz:
My father-in-law said, "You have to file for bankruptcy." I contacted a couple of bankruptcy lawyers and the one that I ended up with said, "You don't need to file for bankruptcy, you need to get out from under the single debt that's killing you."
Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.
Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, before we get into today's interview, I want to do a quick thank you to all of you for supporting the show. Our numbers are going up, which is really cool. The show is being discovered and I have all of you to thank for it. I also want to thank some of our friends in the media that have highlighted Financial Grownup, including Forbes, which named Financial Grownup one of five podcasts that are getting it right. We were up there with some really big names like TheSkimm and Masters of Scale with Reid Hoffman and Powderkeg and a Rent the Runway related show, so it was pretty incredible to get that recognition.
Bobbi Rebell:
I also want to thank Business Insider for highlighting our recent episode with The Muse's co-founder Kathryn Minshew. Her story is pretty incredible, so I'm glad more people got to learn about it. Thank you to all of you and I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Okay. Now to the show. Many of us bring our A game to our professional lives. I certainly try to, but then we don't always make the effort at home. Think of the chef that whips up these gourmet, amazing meals at their fancy restaurant, then they go home and they can barely scrounge together maybe a grilled cheese or some leftovers. Who knows? New York Times correspondent, John Schwartz, is that guy. No, he's not a cook. He's obviously a journalist, but he does research for a living.
Bobbi Rebell:
He's written four books and he's also been a journalist at a number of prestigious publications. Right now, as I mentioned, he's at The New York Times, but in his personal life, he messed up and it cost him, and it kept costing him for years. It was really bad. But, the story of the author of his new book, This is the Year I Put My Financial Life in Order. Sensing a theme here, he got it together. Does have a happy ending. Just maybe not what you were thinking. Here is John Schwartz. Hey John Schwartz, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.
John Schwartz:
Well, thanks it's great to be with you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations. Your new book, This is The Year I Put My Financial Life in Order is coming out right now. I whipped through this book by the way in a day and a half, which is pretty amazing, cuz I can be a bit of a procrastinator, but I couldn't put this down. It was a great book.
John Schwartz:
God, I'm glad to hear that. Thank you so much.
Bobbi Rebell:
How long did it take you to write it, by the way?
John Schwartz:
It was a little more than one year.
Bobbi Rebell:
I brought that up, because within the book is this gem of a money story that, I don't know, at first when you told me it I was disappointed in you, but when I read it in the context of the book, I respected you and I felt like, wow, this could happen to anyone. Tell us your money story.
John Schwartz:
Well, we bought an apartment in New York, which is either a success story or the beginning of a horror story. In our case, it turned pretty bad, because I got a job in another city.
Bobbi Rebell:
Which should be good-
John Schwartz:
Which should be good. Again, career advancement? Exactly. But, we got there and not only could I not sell the apartment in New York, because we had bought at the top of the market, but when we had a tenant, which also seemed like a pretty good idea, that tenant decided to stop paying. And, knew his rights, as he told me over the phone. I was either gonna have to spend a tremendous amount of money on lawyers to get him out or as the super in the building suggested, kill him.
Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, no.
John Schwartz:
No, exactly.
Bobbi Rebell:
He is alive and well. Let's just make that clear.
John Schwartz:
Right. Well, at least, last I checked. Then, over time all our savings were gone. We were faced with near bankruptcy and ended up defaulting on the apartment and losing it. As a little side note, that apartment's worth more than a million dollars today.
Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Can you give us some of the numbers involved and how this happened?
John Schwartz:
Well, it was $136,000. I believe, it might have been 138, my memories not perfect. We were able to pull together the down payment in part, because my wife had a little inheritance from her grandfather and I'd been making pretty good money at Newsweek. We were able to make the payments, but we were not able to make those payments and pay our rent in Washington. That's where the money really started to kill us.
Bobbi Rebell:
And the tenants weren't paying.
John Schwartz:
And the tenants were paying nothing. Well, we have the first tenant, I finally got him out at the suggestion of a very kind lawyer who said, "Send him a letter telling him that you won't pursue him legally if he just leaves."
Bobbi Rebell:
So, you forfeited money.
John Schwartz:
He was never gonna pay. I was gonna spend more money pursuing this guy in court and the lawyer, very intelligently said, "Don't throw good money after bad. Just see if this is enough of an incentive to get him out." It was and he left. Then we got the next tenants in. Again, just as with the first guy, we did a credit check, looked good. We tried to do eyes open transactions here. The second couple was very nice, but a few months in the woman called me and said, "My husband's left and I can't pay." I said, "Okay. Get out." That's when my father-in-law said, "You have to file for bankruptcy."
John Schwartz:
I contacted a couple of bankruptcy lawyers and the one that I ended up with said, "You don't need to file for bankruptcy. You need to get out from under the single debt that's killing you. Everything else, you're banking all your other payment. You're living right, but you have this one unsustainable debt, this mortgage." He walked me through the default process.
Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners here?
John Schwartz:
The first lesson is failure, really crushing failure, as much as it hurts, is not the end of your life. It's not even the end of your financial life. We went through this, more than 20 years ago. You gotta imagine I was devastated by it, but over time we were able to rebuild. Before doing the default, I had been able to get a mortgage on a place in Maryland. So, we had a home that we could not lose.
Bobbi Rebell:
So you were smart with your timing. You did this very thoughtfully. You didn't just let it default. You thought, "Okay, before we let this happen, what financial things can we put in order?"
John Schwartz:
Right. How can I fix this to the extent that I can fix it? So, we were in the house. We went through the process on the other place. It was our new beginning and that's the message. That you can take failure and turn it into the next step of your life. In fact, when we sold that house five or six years later, we were able to sell it at twice the purchase price. Now, we bought it, it was a wreck and we really had to fix it up. That's-
Bobbi Rebell:
You put in the work.
John Schwartz:
... sort of the way we do things. We put in the work and we found a place that was seriously underpriced in the market. Largely, because it was such a wreck, but that turned around everything for us. We went from total failure to in a house, to a pretty good success.
Bobbi Rebell:
I love a happy ending. Looking back though are there things that you would have done differently or looking back, it just happened. Would you have not taken the job in Washington had you known what a debacle the New York apartment would be or really, it just happened and this is the way your life is?
John Schwartz:
I think I could have done things more intelligently. The way that I was looking for an apartment was more about feel than really working through the numbers and understanding what I was up against. I didn't know and might have been able to figure out that this apartment, which was part of a co-op conversion was happening in a building where the for rent apartments were not shifting to co-ops quickly enough.
John Schwartz:
One of our big problems was that we couldn't sell it, because banks didn't want to lend money in a down market in an undersubscribed co-op. Now, those were things I only learned after the fact, but wouldn't it have been smart to learn them before putting money down? Research counts. I mean, I do research for a living, right? I do the research and I type.
Bobbi Rebell:
Your job, but not your personal life sometimes. That's what happens to all of us, right?
John Schwartz:
That's right and that's the story of this book. Learning to do for myself what I do in my job.
Bobbi Rebell:
Part of my enjoyment in reading this book was getting some of your little tips in life. Tell me the money tip that you are gonna share with us that everyone can put in place. Hopefully, they're already doing it, but it actually is a money tip even though people may not think of it that way.
John Schwartz:
Okay. If you're ready for this, it's flossing. Now I sound like that dentist from Sesame Street. Could I just say a few words about flossing? Flossing's important not just because it helps keep your gums healthy and all that stuff, it is something that I started to do in my late-20s regularly, after I had a bout with a periodontal condition. I needed a procedure. After that, there was not a day I missed flossing.
John Schwartz:
What flossing does, more than helping your gums, but I'll get back to that. Is that it establishes a daily habit. Establishing daily habits is the foundation stone for all sorts of good things. If you can floss every day, then you can exercise every day, if you can find the time. Then you find how to make the time. If you can exercise every day, maybe you can save a little money.
John Schwartz:
You can show discipline in other parts of your life, but even more than that, your teeth and gums are gonna be healthy. You're gonna have a much smaller chance of running into the kind of mouth problems that I had in my late-20s, which are expensive. Even if you've got insurance, you've got deductible and everything else. It's part of using good habits to prevent, preventable problems.
Bobbi Rebell:
It all goes together. The book, This is The Year I Put My Financial Life in Order. I love it. Tell our listeners a little bit more about it.
John Schwartz:
Well, it's coming out on April 3rd. It is part guide and part memoir, which is a sort of weird blend, but you know. Reese's put together chocolate and peanut butter and that worked. The idea is that I put my financial life in order by applying research to the problems of my life and the issues that were still undone. Like, I was in my late-50s and I didn't have a will, which is idiotic. I hadn't looked at my retirement to understand whether I was gonna live comfortably, or whether I needed to do more, whether it was a disaster.
Bobbi Rebell:
But you are okay, by the way.
John Schwartz:
Yes.
Bobbi Rebell:
Spoiler alert. You're fine.
John Schwartz:
Yes, spoiler alert.
Bobbi Rebell:
Good to hear.
John Schwartz:
Largely because I started putting money away in my 20s. The first time I got a significant raise, I opened a 401k and put the money in. There are no financial secrets in this book, but there are a lot of fundamentals like, start early and make your contributions. These were the lessons that got me through. The idea behind the book is, I would hope that by reading what I went through, people could figure out what they can do too.
Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people find you, John?
John Schwartz:
I am on Twitter at @jswatz, J-S-W-A-T-Z. There's a Facebook page for the book, This is The Year Schwartz.
Bobbi Rebell:
Love it.
John Schwartz:
It's fun, but the Facebook page is there to talk about the book and for people to talk about their own financial issues. The book is gonna be in stores or you can get it anywhere.
Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Well, I am a huge fan, John Schwartz. I highly recommend everybody read it. It is a page turner, which is not typical of personal finance books. So, definitely everyone check it out. Thank you so much, sir.
John Schwartz:
Thank you.
Bobbi Rebell:
Here is my take on what John had to say. Real estate investment glorified in our society, but make no mistake, it is a high stakes proposition and sometimes life and the macro economy gets in the way. Financial Grownup tip number one, buy what you can sell later on. Always think, how will this sell? You can read more in John's book, but in short, that apartment that he bought, because he could afford it, to be fair, was not in a great family neighborhood. He got a good deal, he thought, but when the apartment went for sale in tough times and he needed to sell, it just wasn't selling.
Bobbi Rebell:
Case in point, when my husband and I went to buy our current apartment, there were two identical apartments for sale in the same building, same layout. You get the idea. One was a lot cheaper, like 25% cheaper, a lot. We could have really used the savings, but there was a catch. A giant flashing orange neon parking sign right across the street. You could see it through what would be our son's bedroom window.
Bobbi Rebell:
We rationalized a little bit. Many apartments in New York face brick walls, so this at least was facing open air, just at night there would be this giant flashing parking sign. We could get blackout shades though, right? You know what? We ended up going for the other apartment on a higher floor, not a great view, but an okay view and no parking sign, because we knew that the pull of buyers when we went to sell would be limited even in an upmarket and it could be nonexistent in a downmarket, if we went to sell that apartment where people just would not buy it. Some people, no matter what, they are not buying the apartment with a flashing orange parking sign that would be in their child's room their whole childhood. So, John found out that sometimes an apartment that's a deal, is not really such a deal.
Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, don't give up on real estate. John kept at it and had a great experience the second time around. I'm a big believer in owning your own home. The tax breaks are not as good as they used to be, but you're not gonna live in fear of a landlord raising the rent, or simply asking you to leave.
Bobbi Rebell:
Friends, be sure to check out John's new book, This is The Year I Put My Financial Life in Order. You will learn from John, but you will also laugh along with John. It is a fun and readable memoirish personal finance guide well worth your time. Thank you all for spending a little bit of your day with us. Keep up the great feedback. I am on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1. I hope you enjoy this episode with John Schwartz and that it brought us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.
The Afford Anything podcast’s Paula Pant wanted to travel the world- but on her own financial terms. The Vegas-based real estate entrepreneur gamified her savings strategy to score enough money to live her DIY travel dreams.
In Paula’s money story you will learn:
-How Paula saved money to travel on a $21,000 salary
-Paula’s strategies to travel on a budget- even when it is not budget travel
-Her side hustles that helped boost her incomes
-The behavioral games she would play to incentivize herself for saving money
-Paula’s strategy to avoid having to delay gratification
-Her specific ‘games’ to make saving fun and rewarding
-Her strategy to travel to places where the cost of living is lower to stick to a $1,000 a month budget.
In Paula’s lesson you will learn
-How to have a more authentic experience when you travel.
-How to balance saving money with your travel interests
In Paula’s money tip you will learn:
-How to “gamify” saving money
-How to avoid feeling deprived when saving money
-the importance maxing out every retirement account
-How to buy individual stocks without a fee
-How to divert money from your bank account into savings automatically
-How to use Acorns to round up savings when you buy things.
In my take you will learn:
-Specific resources to "gamify" your finances
-Specific resources to improve your travel experience
EPISODE LINKS
Robinhood
Acorns
Digit
SmartyPig
Qapital
The Points Guy
Scott’s Cheap Flights
Hotel Tonight
Paula’s podcast Afford Anything
Paula’s website Afford Anything
Follow Paula!
Twitter @affordanything
Instagram @paulapant
Facebook Afford Anything
The Afford Anything podcast’s Paula Pant wanted to travel the world- but on her own financial terms. The Vegas-based real estate entrepreneur gamified her savings strategy to score enough money to live her DIY travel dreams. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn strategies to travel on a budget and how you can balance saving money with your travel interests. #Travel #TravelTips