After 148 rejections in the first funding round, Kathryn Minshew co-founder and CEO of the Muse took note of what she did wrong and upped her game when she went looking for new financing. Minshew scored close to $30 million thanks to the new approach. 

 

In Kathryn’s money story you will learn

-How Kathryn and the Muse team re-vamped their strategy the second time they raised money

-How Kathryn rebounded from the 148 rejections in the seed round of financing

-How The Muse raised $30 million from investors

-How they were able to ask for less money and come out with more than the original targets

-The way Kathryn structured her process when pitching investors

-How they organized their pitches and research to be more effective

-Kathryn’s investor prioritization strategy

-The specific thing Kathryn said to investors to get them to the table faster- and with more interest in her company

-How a second round of financing is different- and should be approached differently from a seed round

In Kathryn’s lesson you will learn:

-The advice Kathryn found most helpful from her networks and mentors

-How she got help from other entrepreneurs

-How to tell if the investors are wrong not to invest- or if your idea and pitch is missing the mark

-How to figure out who your end users are- and why it is important

-Strategies and specific things to ask in order to get honest input about your company

In Kathryn’s money tip you will learn:

-Negotiations can be about more than just cash

-How to ask for signing bonuses, signing bonuses, flextime, vacation time, better titles.

-Why budgets for professional training are essential and how to negotiate for them

In my take you will learn:

-How to learn lessons from rejection, and incorporate them in your next venture

-The importance of taking the time to throughtfully plan and customize presentations and pitches

-How to level the playing field even when the other party is clearly more powerful. 

Episode links:

TheMuse.com

Kathryn’s book with Muse co-founder Alexandra Cavoulacos The New Rules of Work

Follow Kathryn and The Muse!

Instagram @kminshew @themuse

Twitter: @Kmin and @TheMuse and @TheNewRules

Facebook  https://www.facebook.com/thedailymuse

https://www.facebook.com/minshew

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Transcription

Kathryn Minshew:
If you tell someone you're the founder of a company and ask for their input, they are more likely to give you positive impact because they don't want to hurt your feelings. If you tell them that you're a consultant helping a company understand how its market positioning lands, or helping a company better understand what it's doing well and what it's not, people are much more likely to give you totally unfiltered feedback for the series A because I was running a process.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to "Financial Grownup" with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to Be a Financial Grownup". You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everybody. This is an episode about rejection, and what you would do differently the second time around. How to tell were they wrong to reject you? Maybe your message could be a little bit more on point. The Muse founder and CEO, Kathryn Minshew has told the story many times of how she and her colleagues were rejected 148 times when they when to raise money for their startup, The Muse. Once the company got off the ground, it has been a massive success, and many people would say, "Well, those 148 people, they must be so sorry that they rejected it." And of course, that is true to some extent. But also, Kathryn looks back and realizes she had a lot that she would do differently the next time. And in fact, she did do it differently when she went back for the next round of financing, and that's what we talked about. Here is Kathryn Minshew.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kathryn Minshew, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the program.

Kathryn Minshew:
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you are well known as the founder and CEO of The Muse, the amazing job site, and also well known for being rejected when you went to raise money. Tell me how many, 140 something times?

Kathryn Minshew:
148 times. It was like rejection for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, with a few meetings and noes inbetween for fun.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you are the queen of resilience, and one thing that you talk about in your book, "The New Rules of Work", which I should have mentioned to everybody. She is the author of a fabulous career book called "The New Rules of Work".

Bobbi Rebell:
You talk about your personal brand, and how important it is to define it. That fundraising and the lack of it for so long became your personal brand. So you brought with you a money story that has to do with what happened next, after you finally did get the initial funding and you went back for me. Tell us.

Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. Well, first of all, I'll say it's much easier as we all know to talk about failure once you've moved past it. So it became much easier to tell the story of the 148 noes after we had already successfully raised our series A and B rounds. So we've raised almost $30 million in venture capital so far for The Muse.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing.

Kathryn Minshew:
It's been a totally wild ride. So my financial story involves what I set out to do, or rather what I did in the series A to ensure that we had an outcome that was very different than the seed round. Because, obviously, I knew how important it was for that next round, to get it right from the go-ahead. And so to try and condense the story into something very quick, we wanted to go out and initially we were thinking about raising six to $7 million. But actually given the advice that I got while preparing for a fundraise, we were actually told to start out saying we were thinking five to six or five to seven, and then slowly let the demand build. So instead of us going out for a big number and being less sure if the market would respond, start out with a smaller number. And then, if the market is really excited about our business, let the negotiations and the demand push it up, which ended up working really well for us because we ended up raising 10 million after we had overwhelming demand.

Kathryn Minshew:
I also was incredibly structured about the process probably because I was a little bit paranoid after having such a difficult time with our seed round. So ahead of time, I really worked the story, got all of our metrics out there. I thought about how best to position them, which numbers to lead with, what to put first so that we could really grab people's attention. We were obviously lucky in that we had really great revenue growth and a lot of very strong metrics.

Kathryn Minshew:
And then, I actually created a spreadsheet. I took all of the investors that I was even remotely interested in talking to. I put them in a spreadsheet. Divided it up by location, so that when I was in New York, San Francisco, Boston, Chicago, DC, et cetera, I could meet with people who were there. Then, I included information about whether they had invested in any similar companies, any competitors. Any companies that might give them a better understanding into what we did at The Muse. I would include notes from different meetings. I actually would also rank how excited I was after each meeting to continue conversations, so I could prioritize the ones that I was most excited about. I would say that really helped to keep me on track, and so we were also able to run a pretty tight process, where we pinned all of our first meetings with investors to the same two-and-a-half or three-week period.

Kathryn Minshew:
It was really interesting because in the seed round, we had a lot of trouble with investors saying, "Oh, I'm busy, right now. But how about in a month?" I wasn't confident enough in the business, so we would just take whatever we could get for the series A because I was running a process. I would write back to people and be like, "You know I'd love to talk, but unfortunately, I need to get all of our first meetings done by X date. So I can push it a few days, but let me know if you're going to be able to make it work. And if not, I'm totally fine. We'll keep in touch and maybe there'll be another round that you can participate in." And what was fascinating is a lot of people would say, "Oh, let me move around my schedule. Absolutely, I can make it work." And suddenly, we were negotiating from a more even position. And the ones that weren't able to or the ones that said, "No, sorry. I can't do it," they probably would have never backed the company to begin with.

Bobbi Rebell:
True. Do you think looking back, obviously when you were going for the most money, the second round, you were a stronger situation to begin with. But had you used the techniques that you were now using that you just talked about, would you have had more success the first time?

Kathryn Minshew:
You know, maybe. It's so hard to know because the seed round for a startup is really different than later rounds because people aren't necessarily looking at your metrics. They are to some extent, but they're really betting on you. And I think the fact that it was my first proper company that I was fairly young at the time, this was six-and-a-half years ago, so it was very early in my career. And I think that plus the lack of knowledge or understanding about what we were trying to do in the business were some of the biggest concerns. So I do think we could have had a better time and controlled the process a bit more, but I also think there were just some fundamental and structural things that we had to get through and really prove on very limited capital before we could really go out and successfully fundraise from bigger investors.

Bobbi Rebell:
So now, what is your advice to listeners and especially want-to-be entrepreneurs that are looking to raise money, start businesses, and especially to young women?

Kathryn Minshew:
I would say, firstly, you can't understate the importance of perseverance because it is so hard in the early days. But I think that doesn't mean that you just keep doing the same thing without adjusting your tactics and thinking about how you could be more strategic. I found it to be so invaluable to get the advice from others, especially other female entrepreneurs. Because sometimes we have a lot of great friends who are entrepreneurs, who are men, but sometimes the tactics or the approaches or behaviors that would work for them, didn't work the same when I did them because of unintentional or unconscious bias or other things. And so I found that it was really helpful to surround myself with a network of entrepreneurs of both genders to get a lot of advice, to test out different approaches to see what felt natural and normal to me. Because if it feels too unnatural to you, investors will probably pick up on that, and it won't help you communicate that confidence that you are looking for when you're starting to talk to investors about your business.

Bobbi Rebell:
So one last question about this for our listeners, how do you know the difference between maybe your idea just isn't that good, and that's why you're not getting funding and you should stop, or you should persevere as you did because your idea just isn't hitting the right people at the right time with the right message?

Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. So you've just gotten to the crux of what makes this so hard, which is that there is no silver bullet, and you will never have 100% confidence or certainty either way, which is incredibly difficult. However, I think there are a few things you can use to help you directionally get that sense of whether your business is likely to be successful. The first, and I think the most important is to figure out who are your end users and do as much as possible to get unfiltered feedback from them.

Kathryn Minshew:
For example, if you tell someone you're the founder of a company and ask for their input, they're more likely to give you positive input because they don't want to hurt your feelings. If you tell them that you're a consultant helping a company understand how its marketing positioning lands or helping a company better understand what its doing well and what it's not, people are much more likely to give you totally unfiltered feedback, and you need that unfiltered feedback when you're trying to ascertain if you really need to keep pushing forward on your business.

Kathryn Minshew:
So in my case, even though we were getting rejection, after rejection, after rejection from a lot of investors, we were hearing things from our users and from people who were signing up to use The Muse that indicated we had tapped a nerve and we were on a path that people love. They wanted us to use the product. They'd say I love The Muse, but can you do these five things? Make it better here. Change this. That's all positive feedback because that shows you that there is a need. You just have to keep getting better, and I think that is what gave me the oomph to keep going. But I will just call out it's not like I knew the whole time, oh my gosh, this is a great idea. I just have to keep going. I definitely struggled with whether I should accept that these people that were much more experienced than I, that were successful investors, maybe they knew something I didn't, and I just had hubris.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's do a money tip. You are the career guru, and you have so many amazing ideas and tips in your book. I wanted to pull some out of there and get maybe your favorite tips that people can use in their careers, and their ventures that they could maybe put to work ASAP at their next job interview or their next negotiation, what have it.

Kathryn Minshew:
I thought through a lot of different things I could share here, and the one I came up with that I wanted to talk about today is the fact that when you negotiate, it is not just all about cash and I think it can be really empowering to realize that because so many of us have anxiety about negotiating a salary, negotiating a raise. Whether it's at the beginning of a job search, or when you're getting a promotion. But I would encourage people, remember that there are a lot of other things you can negotiate for.

Kathryn Minshew:
So obviously, base salary is the thing that people talk about most. But what about signing bonuses, performance bonuses if you achieve certain things? You can also negotiate for flex time, for vacation time, for a better title that might help you in your career. One of the most creative things that I've heard is people negotiating for a budget for professional development and training.

Bobbi Rebell:
Specific money. In other words, not just saying, "Will you send me," in theory. It's very specific.

Kathryn Minshew:
Oh, very specific. In fact, there was someone at an organization that had mandatory salary bans that the leadership wasn't able to go beyond, and so she said great. Why don't you dedicate ... I think it was five or $10,000 towards training development conference that will include my travel, and that will help level me up to be a better employee for you, to let me do my job better, and it won't invalidate the salary cap. This will just be another way that you're investing in my growth, and they said yes, and I think that is such a great example of creativity when it comes to negotiation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. That's such great advice. Thank you so much. Tell us quickly before we wrap up, what are you guys up to at The Muse these day, and where can people find you?

Kathryn Minshew:
Absolutely. So people can find me at The Muse or @kmin on Twitter. As a company, we are doing a lot right now, but we have been really focusing on we rolled out a new feature called Discussions on TheMuse.com, where people can ask and answer each other's questions. So if you have a career question or you want to learn more about negotiating a raise, we've got a way now to get advice from our community and hear other people's stories. And then, I'm also just kind of fascinated down the road by continuing to explore this idea of how people make the best career decisions, how they find the right fits, and how we help companies tell their stories in a more genuine and authentic way that isn't about just come work here, we're great, but really shares the information people need to know to decide do I want to be part of that organization, or be part of that company?

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Here's my take on what Kathryn had to say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip, number one. Like she did, do your homework, including learning what went wrong the first time. Even if you think the companies or whomever you were pitching to were wrong to reject your idea, we all have room for improvement. Kathryn went out and asked for advice, for example, about how much money to ask for. She actually went for a smaller number based on the advice as a strategy, and ended up raising more money, so it worked. She was also much more organized and structured in her preparations the second time around. She was specific to each company, and deliberate in her presentation. She planned geographically, so she could be efficient with her time. Kathryn even ranked how excited she was about prospects, so she could prioritize and focus on her resources and the best alow there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip, number two. Stand up for yourself, even if you need them more than they need you. In Kathryn's second round, when prospects said they didn't have the time to meet with her any time soon, she pushed back and was not only able to get them to the table faster when they were interested, but also to level the playing field for a stronger negotiating position.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you for listening to this episode of financial grownup. Please subscribe if you have not already. Reviews are great if you have just a few minutes. You can follow me @bobbirebell on Twitter, @bobbirebell1 on Instagram, and learn more about the show at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. I hope that you all enjoyed this episode of "Financial Grownups" with The Muse's Kathryn Minshew, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
"Financial Grownup" with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart, and is a BRK Media production.

Fran Hauser became a financial grownup very young, helping her immigrant parents build their businesses by doing the books and serving as a liaison to clients as early as 1st grade. The author of “The Myth of the Nice Girl, Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate” now applies those early life lessons to her search for  startup investment opportunities.   

 

In Fran’s money story you will learn:

-How growing up as the english speaking daughter of Italian immigrants impacted her path to being a financial grownup

-What it was like to be preparing invoices for her parents businesses starting in 1st grade

-What she learned about risk and investment from observing her father’s strategies

-How her parents took risks despite their disadvantages, and the impact that had on her current risk tolerance

-How she integrates those skills when she considers startup investors in her current role as an early stage investor

-The specific characteristics she looks for when evaluating startups

In Fran’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to conquer fear of mistakes

-The importance of integrating kindness and respect

In Fran’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How Fran teachers her children about money using a 5 gallon water jug

-How much they saved

-How they spent the money!

In My Take you will learn:

-The impact of saying Thank You instead of Sorry

-How the correct tone in which a message is delivered can make it more effective

Bobbi and Fran also talk about:

-Her new book The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate

-What inspired Fran to write the book after more than a decade of planning

-The unique scripts that are in the book that readers can use to execute the strategies Fran teaches

-What the Nice Girl Army is, and how you can laern more about it

-Fran’s plans now that the book has been a best seller!

Episode Links:

Learn more about Fran at her website Franhauser.com

 

Buy Fran’s book! http://www.franhauser.com/nicegirl/

 

Follow Fran!

instagram fran_hauser

twitter @fran_hauser

  

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Transcription

Fran Hauser:
When my father was asked to go look at a job, a potential client, and give them an estimate, he wasn't able to understand the directions to actually get to the house. So I would listen in on another phone and write down the directions, and then I would go in the car to the residence, and then I would get out and I basically be the translator.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, that was author, Fran Hauser. Now, this is a very big interview for me because she is very much in demand after her book, The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love Without Becoming a Person You Hate, became a huge hit this summer. It has many of us rethinking the things that women thought we had to do to succeed. No more mean girls, and there's a lot in there for men as well. So stay with me everyone, this is not just for women listeners. Special welcome to our new listeners, if you are returning, thank you as well for your support. We keep the shows to about 15 minutes so you can easily fit it into your busy schedule, but we also release three episodes a week. So feel free to binge if you're commuting, just make sure to select auto download after you subscribe so that they'll be in your feed automatically. It's all about making it easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's get to Fran. After a long career in media, which included being the president of digital at Time, she is now an investor in startups, and she got a lot of the training for that from her upbringing being a very active part of her parents businesses. Here is Fran Hauser.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Fran Hauser, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Fran Hauser:
Hi Bobbi, great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on the incredible success of your book, The Myth of the Nice Girl: Achieving a Career You Love, circled in a bright red circle, Without Becoming a Person You Hate, big X over the 'Hate' of course. Since the book's come out it's been named so many different things, including an Amazon Best Business Book of 2018, best new book by People magazine and Refinery 29, most anticipated title of April by Bustle, I mean I could just basically go on. Congratulations on all of that, Fran.

Fran Hauser:
Oh thank you. It's really been amazing, I feel so grateful.

Bobbi Rebell:
You came to us with a story that's really meaningful, because it has to do with your whole family and the money experiences that you learned growing up from your parents, in the town where my sister now lives, Mount Kisco, and you were their bookkeeper in their businesses in first grade, tell us about that.

Fran Hauser:
Yes. So my parents are Italian immigrants who moved to Mount Kisco, as you said, and like many immigrants it took a lot of courage to make this move. They were uneducated, they didn't speak the language, and they were moving to a place that was completely foreign to them. What each of my parents did have though, was a skill. So my father was a stonemason, my mother was really good at sewing, so they both started small businesses. My dad a stonemeasonry business, and my mom opened up a tailoring shop with her best friend. Being the oldest of four, they needed my help, especially when it came to communication. So when I was in first grade I was preparing all of my dad's invoices. One memory that I have is I could only add at that point in time, I couldn't multiply yet, so my aunt actually created a sales tax chart for me, so that if the monthly maintenance was $300, I could see exactly what the sales tax was, and then just add the two numbers together.

Fran Hauser:
So that was first grade, and then even in middle school I was helping my mother with marketing. So helping her come up with a logo, and getting different marketing and sales materials printed. So I got exposed to business at a very young age, and even understanding things like revenue, and expense, cashflow, you know seeing that when more cash comes in than goes out, decisions that need to be made around what to do with that extra money. It was really interested watching my dad because he took some calculated risks and invested in both commercial and residential real estate, which proved to be fruitful. I would say at a very, very, very young age I played this role of bookkeeper/marketer/general manager.

Fran Hauser:
Another vivid memory I have that I'll just share with you is when my father was asked to go look at a job, a potential client, and give them an estimate, he wasn't able to understand the directions to actually get to the house. So I would listen in on another phone and write down the directions, and then I would go in the car with him and we would actually drive to the residence together, and then I would get out and I would basically be the translator for him. So that was my childhood, pretty unconventional.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Very unconventional. How did you assume this role? Were there specific deliberate conversations, or did it just evolve organically as you grew up in the household?

Fran Hauser:
It really evolved organically, because I was the oldest. Really, these things just fell on me. It made sense, if something was broken, even in the house, and needed to be repaired, I would be the one to call the plumber or the contractor, and at the time it felt really hard. It was frustrating, for sure, at times because I just felt so different from all of my "American" friends, who were doing sleepovers and play dates, and I had so much more responsibility. Obviously, looking back, it was actually such an incredible experience, because I learned so much, not just about business but also about risk taking. Watching my parents, who had so much going against them, they were at such a disadvantage, but they were still able to take these risks. Whether it was building these businesses, or investing in real estate, and if you look at my career, I've taken many risks in my career. I've reinvented myself several times. I left Coca-Cola and the late nineties to go to an early stage internet company, Movie Phone. Or five years ago, I left a really comfortable job at Time Inc. to move into startup investing.

Fran Hauser:
So I haven't been afraid to take risks, and I think a lot of that comes from seeing how disadvantaged my parents were, and feeling like if they could take risks, I should be able to.

Bobbi Rebell:
I wanted to ask you, so you mentioned, and I was going to bring this up, that you now are a startup investor. How did this background in business and understanding risks, and understanding strategy and marketing, and even just the basic economics of business, how does that inform your approach as an investor now?

Fran Hauser:
So I think in a lot of ways. For starters, when I'm evaluating the entrepreneurs I'm looking at them and I'm saying, "Do they have the capacity to take risks? Will they jump in with both feet?" And I'm also looking at what kind of mindset do they have? Are they optimistic? I always felt like my parents approached every single venture with such optimism, and with an abundance mindset, and treating people kindly and with respect. So those are things that I really look for in an entrepreneur, and then the other side of it is the brass tactics operational side, which is I feel like I'm really good at looking at financials and understanding what the risks are, really getting nitpicky when it comes to the assumptions that are being used. So I feel like I can look at a PnL pretty quickly, and projected cashflows, and all that good stuff, and I'm just co comfortable. I'm so comfortable with numbers, and I'm so comfortable with looking at forecasts and really trying to make sense of it, and also understanding is there a there there?

Fran Hauser:
The other part too, I would say, is just understanding markets, understanding consumers. I think that also comes from just having spent so much time with my parents clients. So it's impacted me as an investor in so many different ways.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson then, for our listeners from this, that they can apply to their businesses, and to some degree, to their lives?

Fran Hauser:
I would say the lesson is to not be afraid to take risks, and when you do so, really approach it with a mindset of abundance and optimism, and don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to go all in and to jump in with both feet, and then also the last thing I would say, which really ties back to the book, is to treat people with kindness and respect, because I think you look at my parents who barely spoke a word of english, and they were still able to communicate through a lot of nonverbal cues, and a lot of that had to do with being charming, and being kind, and that will take you far.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, because the book is really all about being nice, but in a strategic and smart way.

Fran Hauser:
Yes, being nice in a way where you're not a pushover, and you're not veering into people pleasing territory. It's really about how you can be both nice and strong. Those two things are not mutually exclusive, and that you bring both of those into virtually any situation at work.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your everyday money tip, because one thing that I love about this is it's very specific, and tangible, and something we can all do pretty much right away.

Fran Hauser:
Yeah, I love this. So what we do in my house is, instead of a normal piggy bank, we collect coins in a five gallon water jug. The kids love it because it's so much bigger than a piggy bank, and it's clear, so you can see the progress. The last time we cashed it in the coins were worth $4000, and it took us several years to fill it up, but it's just a really fun way to teach your kids about saving and about goals.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you cash it in, what's that experience like? Is it one of the machines, or do you bring it to a bank?

Fran Hauser:
It's actually hysterical because it's so heavy, so what you have to do is we put duct tape over the top of it to close it, and then we literally roll it-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my God.

Fran Hauser:
We have to roll it down the-

Bobbi Rebell:
You could get a smaller container, Fran, you know that?

Fran Hauser:
I know, but it's part of the experience, I guess. So much fun, and then we literally bring it into the bank. The teller always has so much fun with it, because it's not something that they usually see.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you do with the $4000 then?

Fran Hauser:
The first time we did it my husband and I, it was actually pre-kids, so we ended up spending it on a really great spa vacation, which was great. Just the two of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
That works.

Fran Hauser:
That works, right? And now with the kids we're just starting to talk to them about, "Okay, what do we want to spend it on?" And that's also really fun, because it allows you to bat around ideas and then have something that you're really excited about, you have something to look forward to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. We'll have to get an update and put it in the show notes as to where the money goes. I want to spend just a couple of minutes talking about your book, because it's had so much impact.

Fran Hauser:
Yes. The book is really my response to a question that I get asked all the time, which is, "How can you be so nice, and still be successful?" It's just a topic that I've found myself talking about quite a bit, and it's something that I really believe. Being nice, and being empathetic, and collaborative, and having an abundance mindset. All of those things have really served me well in my career. If I think about some of the bigger promotions that I received, or if I was asked to work on a really high profile project, a lot of that came back to my ability to build relationships and earn trust, and a lot of that goes back to being nice.

Fran Hauser:
So the book is really actual, I mean it's inspiring, but I think what makes it special is I am such an operator at heart that I really wanted to make sure that we filled it with tips, and techniques, and scripts. There are so many scripts for navigating sticky situations.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, there are very specific things, because people think, "Well, this happens to me, what do I ..." they literally don't have the words. Like when someone takes credit for an idea that you had, you go into exactly what to do, which is important.

Fran Hauser:
Yes, and I have to tell you one really cool thing, just over the past week I've had three different women tell me that they all got really big raises using my advice in the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Fantastic. And now, you're now working on this Nice Girl Army, right? That's your saying on social media, and you bring together all these different stories that relate to that.

Fran Hauser:
Yes. My Nice Girl Army is actually a group of ambassadors that I put together, probably about six to nine months ago. A lot of them are former mentees, or current mentees, they really love the message in the book, and they've really gotten behind the book. It's basically a Google group I've created where we all communicate with one another, and they've all been so helpful in promoting the book, and I think from a hashtag perspective, it's taken on this bigger movement feel to it. It's just been really fun to see women who I don't know reading the book and using that hashtag, and saying how much they love the book, and how much it's helped them.

Fran Hauser:
So I think in terms of what I'm thinking about next, it's really how do I take all of this great content that's in the book, and what else can I do with that content? So I'm just starting to think about some product extensions from the book, which is really exciting, and then still doing my day job, which is investing and advising, which is something that I've put on pause a little bit over the last few months as I've been working on the book tour. So I'm really excited to get back into that as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Well, I want to make sure everyone can, first of all get the book if they haven't gotten it yet, but more importantly, also know where to find you and follow to get updates on all of these different projects.

Fran Hauser:
Yes, definitely. So my website is FranHauser, H-A-U-S-E-R, .com, and you can get all the information about the book and where to buy the book there. My Instagram and Twitter handle is the same, it's Fran_Hauser, and of course you can always connect with me on Linkedin as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Fran. I love the book, and if there's anyone out there who hasn't read it yet, please pick it up, it's wonderful, well worth investing the time. Thank you Fran.

Fran Hauser:
Thank you Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, so Fran and I really just scratched the surface in that interview, here's a little bit more wisdom from her book. Financial Grownup tip number one; one thing that Fran talks about in The Myth of the Nice Girl is the importance of how things are presented, the tone that you use in your voice. So you can be firm, and not be a pushover, and still be nice. Think about the way that you say things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two; don't say sorry so much. Try replacing it with "Thank you." Fran points out that many women apologize of things that not only were not their fault, but also they aren't really sorry about. For example, not being able to attend an event. She would often apologize for declining an invitation, instead, she advises to simply say, "Thank you for the invitation." And say that you will not be able to attend.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you have not already, please hit that subscribe button and be in touch on Twitter, @BobbiRebell, on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook I am @BobbiRebell. And learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. And thank you to the wonderful Fran Hauser for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Jane King caved in to pressure to buy an apartment with her first son on the way, but soon realized going against her gut created a lot of financial indigestion. Plus tips on how to make sure you get your bills paid on time. 

In Jane’s money story you will learn:

-Why Jane decided to buy real estate, against her gut instinct, right when her son was born

-The key consideration that Jane and her husband overlooked when buying property in that location

-The indication in the economic news stories she was reporting that was a red flag to Jane that they were headed for real estate disasters

-How falling interest rates actually created a challenge for Jane and her family

-Why Jane had to move out of the first property

In Jane’s money lesson you will learn:

-How not trusting your gut can cost you a lot of money

-How to apply that theory not just to real estate but also to buying a stock any decision

-Our instincts are often stronger than we think

In Jane’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Why Jane does all of her bill paying on Saturday

-How that creates a checks and balances system for her

-How we can apply this kind of system to our own lives

In My Take you will learn

-The importance of getting out of big mistakes before they become even worse, even if it is expensive

-How Jane leveraged a layoff into a successful business venture

We also talk about:

-How Jane took a business that was folding at her employer, and created her own entrepreneurial venture, LilaMax media. 

-Jane’s podcast about kids and money “KaChing with Jane King”

-About my side-hustle filling in for Jane doing local news updates  live from the Nasdaq MarketSite that are seen all over the United States

Episode Links

Learn more about Jane King and LilaMax media at lilamaxmedia.com

Learn more about Jane’s podcast KaChing with Jane King at https://kachingpodcast.com/

 

Follow Jane!

Twitter https://twitter.com/MarketJane

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/marketjane/

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/jane.king.560

---

Transcription

Jane King:
I wish I would have just trust my instinct at the time because I feel like I knew, gut, what was going on with the housing market. I don't think I understood just how deep the problems were.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be A Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this!

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone! Today's episode features a friend I've known for more than a decade and learned a lot from and I know that you will as well. Jane King is a familiar face to so many of you because she's been anchoring local news business updates for years. First, on CNN, then on Bloomberg, and now with her entrepreneurial venture, LilaMax Media. Named after her two kids, Lila and Max.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even though her official money story has to do with a real estate flop, pay close attention to the extra story she casually slips in about launching her content syndication company, LilaMax. Previously referred to, which continues to grow at a time when so many bigger content companies are struggling. She makes it seems like no big deal, but I was there, and this Mompreneur is holing her own against some heavy competition. Here is Jane King.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jane King! You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jane King:
Great to be here, Bobbi, and I really loved hearing your podcast over the weekend. It's great advice out there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, thank you, and I love your podcast, “KaChing With Jane King” and all of your entrepreneurial ventures. Tell us a little bit about that.

Jane King:
Well, right now I run a company called LilaMax Media. I'll just give you a little history of how this came to be. So, I worked for CNN. I worked for Bloomberg and then the division that I worked for at Bloomberg, in 2013, they decided to shut that down at the end of the year. So, they gave us about a six weeks notice and another guy on my time and I decided just to take it on. We started this company LilaMax Media.

Jane King:
We do broadcast of the NASDAQ Monday through Friday for local TV stations around the country and try to keep up everybody on this very interesting business news atmosphere that we have lately. Oh, my goodness!

Bobbi Rebell:
And, many of my listeners, I'm sure see you on their local morning news, so we love that.

Jane King:
Right. And, I have some great fill ins, like you!

Bobbi Rebell:
I do.

Jane King:
Good help.

Bobbi Rebell:
I do help you out. I love doing it. But, let's talk about your money story, because it has to do with something near and dear to my heart, because I have had a lot of financial security come my way because of real estate investments. You made a big real estate purchase. We were actually all pregnant together, us and a bunch of friends.

Jane King:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
We had our babies all at the same time back in 2007 and we all bought real estate at that time. But, your story is a little bit different from the standard run of the mill story. Tell us what happened.

Jane King:
Well, I got caught up in that whole disaster of what we lived in 2008 and 2009. So, I was working as a financial reporter at the time and I just had this feeling that the housing market was over valued. I, you know, I had even had discussions with people. I'm like, come on, the average house is $250,000. But, the average American is only making like 45 and nothing just added up. So, I just ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, so logically, you went to buy a house. A home.

Jane King:
Well, so here's how this all came about. So, we had a friend who was moving and he said “Hey, how would you like to buy our apartment?” And, I was like “Oh, I really don't want to do that.” He was like “Oh, we don't have to pay commissions.” I was pregnant at the time as you mentioned. I thought “Well, gosh, it wouldn't be good for the child to have a house instead of a rental, for some reason. Even though, it kind of makes no sense.” Our accountant weighed in. Said the tax write offs were great so, we bought a home. Let's see. We closed on that in March or May of 2007, and ...

Bobbi Rebell:
So, right before Max was born?

Jane King:
Right before Max was born and at almost the exact peak of the housing market. When we closed on the home, I think they were around, just under seven percent. Like, six and a half or six point seven.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which, sounds really high right now.

Jane King:
Sounds high right now, but this was 2007. They went all the way down to three something and we just could not take advantage of that because the home values just ... the value of the appraisals were coming in too low. So ...

Bobbi Rebell:
So, your equity was not high enough to refinance?

Jane King:
That's right. So, third times a charm. Finally got that done, and of course we paid all the fees and everything in the process. But ...

Bobbi Rebell:
So, so much for saving so much on the commission.

Jane King:
So much for saving on the commission. You know, I don't know. You know, it was a co-op. We had trouble selling it because the co-op board was just ... that's another thing. I would never buy in a co-op again.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, let's go back to the story. So, okay, you get into the apartment. First of all, you wanted to refinance just because the rates were going lower, right?

Jane King:
Oh yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jane King:
We did, but it was, you know, a couple thousand dollars a month difference.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh wow. So, your payments were high, number one. So, number two, then you're being rejected from refinancing because your equity relative to the value of the home was not a good enough ratio.

Jane King:
That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:
And then, number three, why did you want to sell? Why not, once you were able to refinance, why not just hang there?

Jane King:
Well, because it's a co-op and you can't rent it out for more than two years, so another one of those co-op rules that you have to deal with in New York City. So, we could only rent it out for two years and then we had to finally sell it. Because, we had moved to a different neighborhood and we weren't really ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, so why did you move then, I guess is the question. Because, you bought it in 2007, why not just live there?

Jane King:
Two things. So, one was the apartment was up by Columbia University and they were taking over the building where my husband had a business. So, we needed to find a new location for the business, and the timing of that was right at the time when my son was entering Kindergarten and the schools in that area, of course, I was pregnant at the time. I didn't even think about to ask about the schools, but the schools in that area were not good schools. So, we moved to a better district where the schools were better. My husband set up a business and, you know in the end, everything's better. But, it's just I don't know. I wish I would have just trust my instinct at the time because I feel like I knew, gut, what was going on with the housing market. I don't think I understood just how deep the problems were, but you just got to trust your gut. We know more than we think we do.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from your story?

Jane King:
Well, I would think that if you're somewhat informed about finances, trust your gut. Don't let somebody else talk you into something. Whether, it's buying an apartment or buying a stock or buying something else, you know, whatever. I would just trust your gut and really think about it, because I do think we know more instinctively than we think we do.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright, let's talk about your every day money tip. Because, this is very basic and yet, sort of brilliant because it probably works. I mean, if it does work for you, I think it would work for a lot of our listeners.

Jane King:
Well, it's so easy. Anybody can do this. I pay all my bills on Saturday morning. It helps me keep all of my accounts in check. I know what the balances are. Nothing is ever paid late. So, I don't have any of the late fees or anything like that. I just set them down. It's part of my morning. My Saturday morning routine along with doing the laundry and doing the dishes, its I sit down and pay the bills. And, it's so easy and I think it's a great tip and anybody can do it. You can start this Saturday!

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes! Or, it can be any day of the week. The point is that you have an appointment with yourself to focus on your finances.

Jane King:
That's right. Saturday morning works well for me. Whatever day happens to work with you is good. It's just I'm a creature of routine and I find that it helps me lead a more organized life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. Alright, tell us more about what's going on with your podcast KaChing.

Jane King:
Okay. KaChing with Jane King. It's all about kids and money. It really kind of comes from the financial crisis, because I felt like people were doing irresponsible things because they didn't know. They didn't know that housing doesn't go up forever or that you can't spend more than you earn. You know, things like this, so I really decry the lack of financial education in our schools and in our society. So, I started this little podcast and we have some great guests on there. Authors, and people who come and they talk about, you know, just helping to raise kids so they're financially responsible. KaChing with Jane King.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright everyone. Check it out. Thank you so much Jane, you're the best!

Jane King:
Thank you Bobbi! Great to see you!

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, there's a lot to take from Jane's story. The first thing though, that strikes me is this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: If you make a real estate mistake. Admit it and get out. Jane did that right. Holding on to something you bought. Just because you bought it, is not going to fix the problem. And yes, you could lose money, but holding on, you could lose even more money. You don't know. So, staying put is just going to add to the pain. When we drill down the key problem with the apartment, was that the schools weren't a fit for Jane's kids. The other issue was that her husband's business was losing its lease. So, by paying the price, and it was expensive, it was painful for her. But, admitting the mistake, her family was able to move to one of, if not, the best public school districts in the entire city. Her husband set up a new business, in a hot neighborhood, with great clientele, and they moved on and they prospered. Digging in their heels and hoping things would just get better would have been a mistake.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's talk about Jane's business, LilaMax Media, which produces content primarily from the NASDAQ market site. So, this is the bonus story that I mentioned at the top. Her previous employer, Bloomberg, was shutting down that line of business. She and her partner, Bob Morris, figured out a way to make the economics work with lower overhead as a smaller company. So, instead of being out of work, Jane actually became the co-founder of a business that is going strong more than four years later.

Bobbi Rebell:
She took a terrible situation and made it into an opportunity of a lifetime and yes, you can see me filling in for Jane, so DM me and say “hi” if you see me on your local news in the early hours of the morning. If you have not already hit that subscribe button, so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and be in touch. On Twitter, I am @BobbiRebell. On Instagram @BobbiRebell1. On Facebook @BobbiRebell and as I said, DM me. I love hearing your feedback on the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jane had to make some very Grownup decisions as a consequence of that against the gut real estate decision, but she did it. And, it's a great lesson. Trust your gut, and if you find yourself having made the wrong decision, get the heck out. So, thanks Jane for helping us get one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Announcer:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

 

Time management expert Laura Vanderkam on how she and her husband decided to pay it forward to free up time to create available time for career and business growth.  Plus behind the scenes info on how she wrote her latest bestseller “Off The Clock” and a sneak peak at her next project. 

In Laura’s money story you will learn:

-Why it has taken Laura so long to figure out the right childcare setup

-How she balances being a frugal person with the reality of her childcare needs

-The problems that emerged as her speaking and writing career began to gain more traction

-How working from home made her childcare issues more complicated

-The specific things she changed when she hired a new nanny

-Why she chose a certain schedule and the specific benefits that provided

-Specific examples of work situations where her new childcare set up allowed her to earn more money

 

In Laura’s money lesson you will learn:

-The reason Laura considers childcare an investment in your earning potential, even if you pay for it when you aren’t technically working

-The importance of going to what she called the “extra stuff’ like networking events and conferences

-Why you should sometimes pay for an extra half an hour of childcare, and what to do with that time

-The relevance of Serena Williams to the conversation and what we can learn from her recent experience missing a major milestone in her child’s life. 

In Laura’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Why handwritten notes are important in business

-How Laura has used them to increase her connection with friends and business associates

-How Laura uses that habit to connect on a personal level with her readers and fans. 

 

In My Take you will learn:

-How to use money to solve productivity challenges

-A specific way Harry Potter author JK Rowling used this strategy

-Apps and other options that can help you execute the same strategy as JK Rowling

-Why some people are late all the time

-How to not be late

We also talk about:

Laura’s new book “Off The Clock” and how she conducted the exclusive research

The importance of time perception

Laura’s Ted Talk and how we can integrate those lessons into time choices

Laura’s podcast with Sarah Hart  Unger “Best of Both Worlds” 

Her next project Juliet’s school of possibility which is a fable about Time Management

Episode Links

Learn more about Laura at her website LauraVanderkam.com

Check out her podcast “Best of Both Worlds” 

Get Laura’s book “Off The Clock!”

 

Follow Laura!

Twitter @lvanderkam

Facebook LauraVanderkamAuthor

Instagram lvanderkam

LinkedIn Laura Vanderkam

 

 

Apps for last minute discount hotels

hoteltonight.com

OneNight.com

Hotelquickly.com

 

 

---

Transcription

Laura Vanderkam:
We had a lot of snow. We could see that this huge snow system was coming into Pennsylvania. My client out in Michigan who they have this big event booked around me said, "Well, could you come out early?" The idea of being a working mom of four kids who could like suddenly go 24 hours earlier to an event overnight even though my husband was also out of town, I could do it. I could just say yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of how to be a financial grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. So that was time management expert and prolific writer, Laura Vanderkam. Her latest book is Off The Clock, which we're going to talk about. A special welcome to our new listeners and, of course, returning ones. As you guys know, we keep it short because I'm a big believer in delivering value for your time. You can always earn more money but time is priceless and we appreciate the time that you spend with us. So we aim for about 15 minutes but you can stack a few episodes together. We do three a week. So make it work for your life. Hit subscribe, put your settings to automatically download, so you're going to have each episode without having to do any work. Go for the easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about time management. So interesting behind the scenes fact ... financial grownup fact here. I came very prepared for this interview with Laura Vanderkam. I was ready to be super efficient and respectful of her time but, in the true spirit of her latest book, Off The Clock, she was not in a hurry at all and, in fact, she said she had all the time in the world. How does she do that? Listen to the interview and then make the time to read her book. The time spent will literally pay for itself. Here is Off The Clock author, Laura Vanderkam.

Bobbi Rebell:
Laura Vanderkam, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Laura Vanderkam:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your latest book. It's called, Off The Clock, Feel Less Busy While Getting More Done. I can't wait to see what your next book's going to be. Maybe I'll get a teaser out of you. What are you working on?

Laura Vanderkam:
Actually, my next book will be out in March 2019, and it's a time management staple, it's called, Juliet's School of Possibility. So, yeah, there you go.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.

Laura Vanderkam:
The commercial for the next one.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, absolutely. But, in the meantime, once we finish all of your books, we also can listen to your podcast, Best of Both Worlds, which is with Sarah Hart Unger, and that's also one of my new obsessions.

Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah, we really do believe that work and family can work together, that people can succeed at both and love both. And so, that's what the podcast covers.

Bobbi Rebell:
And one thing that you guys discuss a lot beyond just time management, but time management as it pertains to kids and getting work done, and that brings us to your money story.

Laura Vanderkam:
Like many parents, it has taken me a long time to sort of figure out what the right childcare setup truly is. And, being a kind of frugal person, I didn't want to spend all that much. So it was always trying to get by on less than I probably needed for me and my husband, and you know, he travels and works long hours, and I was certainly starting to as my speaking career was starting to grow. And so, you know, it was figuring out, well, what kind of childcare do I need? And I'd always spend, you know, normal work hours, maybe eight to five. I mean, I worked from home, certainly I should be able to do that. But the problem is, we need like overnight coverage and we wouldn't have it because people would have other plans cause, hey, we're leaving at five. They'd have other things they were doing in the evening. You know, it was just difficult to make it work.

Laura Vanderkam:
So, when we were hiring a new nanny about two years ago, we decided that, well, we truly do need more hours. Let's go ahead and make the investment in doing it. And so, we hired somebody who's initial schedule was to work eight to eight, Monday through Thursday. And the upside of doing eight to eight, it's only 48 hours, right? So it's not excessive.

Bobbi Rebell:
So were you cutting out Fridays?

Laura Vanderkam:
Well, we had ... at the time there was another person working on Fridays for part-time. You know, that was the idea. It was like, you're going to have 60 hours of care, split it among two people because you don't burn one person out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, then, you also have a backup, right?

Laura Vanderkam:
We do have a backup. Right. Yeah. So you have one full-time, one part-time. So the upside of having the evenings, I could go to networking events, like even if my husband was working late. Or, if I needed to be somewhere, I wasn't racing back and apologizing for being late. We had the evening covered. We had an extra driver for school stuff, for activities.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cause you have four kids by the way.

Laura Vanderkam:
Cause I have four small children. But the real upside has turned out to be that, when you hire someone to work eight to eight, they tend not to book stuff in the evening. So then, arranging for them to stay overnight, and we also hired somebody who was willing to do that. It was basically, pay me overtime I'll do it. Meant that there wasn't always this scrambling thing because it was relatively easy to just get that extra hours in there. And so, yes, it's expensive to have a lot of childcare and to have the availability of overnight coverage, you know, paying overtime for that. But, you know, I really see moments where it paid off.

Laura Vanderkam:
This spring, for instance, I was traveling a lot. I mean, I was giving one or two speeches a week that required travel, we had a lot of snow. One day in early March we could see that this huge snow system was coming into Pennsylvania. My client out in Michigan, who, you know, they have this big event booked around me, said, "Well, could you come out early?" You know, the idea of being a working mom of four kids who could like suddenly go 24 hours earlier to an event overnight even though my husband was also out of town, I could do it. Like I could just say yes. And that's what it has been enabling me to get like bigger ticket speaking jobs, ones that are paying more than I certainly would've imagined I could've gotten five, six years ago. And I think it's because I feel like I know I can say yes.

Laura Vanderkam:
But, you know, it's really an investment in your earning potential. And, if you're always trying to get by on less childcare than you need, then you won't say yes to the extra stuff. You won't go to that networking opportunity. You won't go to that conference. You won't maybe stay late that one night when you know your boss is going to see it and really remember it because you're trying to race out. And, over the longterm, those things really do add up. So I really like to think of childcare more as an investment than an expense. And, if you can get your head around that idea, I think you'll really start feeling like a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners? How can they apply it to their lives?

Laura Vanderkam:
Well, I think, take an honest assessment of what amount of childcare you have and, if possibly increasing that by a little bit would make your life a lot easier, less stressful, or enable you to pursue professional opportunities that you haven't so far. So it could be maybe an investment in life satisfaction. Maybe pay the person for an extra half hour after you get home, so you don't immediately have to race into serving everyone, making dinner, while you also have kids jumping on you cause they haven't seen you all day. Maybe that person could start dinner while you deal with the kids, right, and have some time with them.

Laura Vanderkam:
Or maybe it's just that, you know, occasionally you'd like to get stuff done a little bit later instead of racing out to make a 5 p.m. daycare pickup. Maybe you can arrange for an evening sitter just like one day a week, right? And that person covers maybe five to eight, and you can get stuff done when the office is quiet, or people see you be there late, or you go to networking events. And, you know, then you've made this investment and it will probably pay off over time.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love that you point out those intangible things, like going to a networking event because sometimes people view that as social, but it's social, but it's really also an investment in your career to be out there with your peers. I know Serena Williams recently missed a big milestone because she was training and it can happen to any mom, no matter what. So, you can't let those hold you back from doing things that might benefit your career.

Laura Vanderkam:
SO I think this idea like rearranging your whole life to not miss anything, it's never going to happen. And, if you have more than one kid, you'll miss some stuff cause you're at the other kids stuff. And, you know, people adjust, they grow up, they learn the universe does not revolve them. It's all good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah, you know. So, it's worth doing a little bit extra sometimes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. And there are other ways to bond with people outside of your family, bond with people regarding work in your professional endeavors, and that brings us to your everyday money tip, which is just genius, and I got to experience myself.

Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah. Well, this doesn't seem like a money tip but it's in line with the idea of networking and building your network, and getting to know people, and establishing these relationships, which is, send handwritten notes. This doesn't seem like a money tip but I can tell you that people are far more inclined to like you when it seems that you have bothered to establish, like put a little effort into establishing a connection with them. It's also memorable because most people don't do it.

Laura Vanderkam:
So, when I sent you my book, I included a handwritten note thanking you for your interest in it, and for being willing to take your valuable time to read it. I had a thing going on my website that I was asking people to pre-order Off The Clock, and what people did, they gave me their mailing address so I could send them a signed bookplate that they could stick in the cover when it showed up from whatever online retailer that they pre-ordered it through. You know, I'm mailing them anyway, why not send them a handwritten note? So I sent a handwritten thank you note to everybody who pre-ordered and gave me their address. And this is, you know, a lot.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you made the time because it was important to you.

Laura Vanderkam:
Because it was important. So I kept reminding myself, as I was doing it ... my hand was cramping up. I'm like, you should be so grateful that these people are willing to spend money on a product of yours sight unseen. Those are your big fans you want to connect with them, and I do want to connect with them.

Bobbi Rebell:
I just want to take another minute to talk a little bit about Off The Clock. As we mentioned, I did read it on vacation. It was great. You talk about people expand time. That was one of my favorite themes in the book. Tell us more about that theory and how people can apply it to their lives, cause that to me was the most important takeaway from this book.

Laura Vanderkam:
So, for Off The Clock, I had 900 people with full-time jobs and families track their time for a day, and then I asked them questions about how they felt about their time. So I could give people scores based on their time perception. Like did they have high time perception scores? They felt time was abundant. Or low time perception scores. They felt time was scarce, stressful, all that stuff. Compare the schedules with people who felt like they had a lot of time, people who felt they had no time.

Laura Vanderkam:
People who felt like they had the most time also spent the most time actively engaged with family and friends. So they spent the leisure time that they did have nurturing their relationships, whereas people who had the lowest time perceptions scores tended to spend their time watching TV or on social media. You know, it's not that one group had more leisure time than the other. Everyone was busy. Everyone had full-time jobs, families, but people choose to spend the time that they do have discretionary choices over in different ways. And, apparently, spending time with family and friends makes us feel very off the clock.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. And that's, by the way, we didn't mention your Ted Talk, which is amazing. One of the things that you point out in your Ted Talk is that, instead of just fast forwarding through commercials to save time when watching TV, you could just watch less TV. So it's pretty straight forward.

Laura Vanderkam:
The problem with writing that time management, I've seen all these articles over the years of like how to find an extra hour in the day by shaving bits of time off every day activities, and stuff like Taebo, or forward through the commercials. Save eight minutes every half hour over two hours of watching TV, you find 32 minutes to exercise. Like, come on. You're watching TV for two hours, you already had 32 minutes to exercise. Let's not fool ourselves.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You called us all out. Tell us where people can find out more about you and all of your different ventures, podcasts, Ted Talk, books, newsletter, all of it.

Laura Vanderkam:
Yeah, come visit my website, lauravanderekam.com. That's just my name. You can learn more about my books including Off The Clock and the podcast, Best of Both Worlds. We'd love to have some of your listeners take some of the extra commutes that they're not listening to your wonderful podcast on, and come give it a listen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much Laura.

Laura Vanderkam:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. There were so many great takeaways from that and from the book, Off The Clock. I'm going to give you a couple more here and, of course, you can check out the book and get even more.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip number one. Money can solve productivity problems. One of my favorite examples in the book is when Laura talks about Harry Potter author, J.K. Rowling. She was writing her seventh book, [inaudible 00:12:41]. So, by this point she had financial resources to say the least. But she couldn't get any work done in her house because the window cleaner was there, and the kids were home, and the dogs were barking. And then J.K. Rowling says in this story, a light bulb went on. I can throw money at this problem. And you know what? She decamped to a hotel to finish the draft and it worked cause she was able to focus. Money solved the problem.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, not all of us think that we have the budget to do that. I've never done that and to me it does seem extreme on the surface. However, because of the new resources that we have and we're going to give you some ideas and apps that we have access to now, there are very reasonable hotel rooms available at the last minute in our own cities, and that is something we could potentially look into when we just need to get to a place where we can focus on getting our work done, especially when we're coming up against a big deadline. So some app examples are: Hotel Tonight, One Night, and Hotel Quickly. And you can find very cheap deals in your city very often using apps like these. I'll put the links in the show notes.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you don't have a budget, maybe you have a friend with a spare bedroom. Tell them what you're up to so they don't expect you to be social, but maybe you can use that. And, if it's just a few hours that you need, of course, you can go to a coffee shop. That's always available as a resource for many people. But another option, sometimes, is to just go to your local library and just hunker down in a quiet area there and get some work done.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip number two. Be a pessimist when deciding when to leave for important meetings or trips. Vanderkam discovered that people who are late, even though I think it's often inconsiderate or poor planning, really what it is, is they're optimists. They always remember the best scenario of getting to a place. So, if they're planning a trip that involves going to the airport, they might remember that it only took 15 minutes to get to the airport but, of course, what they don't remember is that was at, you know, 5 a.m. on a Sunday when no one else was going. Maybe this time they're going at 9 a.m. on a Monday morning and they don't factor in that it's going to take a lot longer. So, because they're not planning according to the worse case scenario, things go awry. So plan according to the worst case scenario and, you know what, maybe you'll get there early and you'll have extra time, and you can do something fun with that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to you for gifting this time to yourself to hopefully improve your life just a little thanks to the wonderful advice and wisdom from Laura Vanderkam. Please be in touch. Follow me on Twitter@bobbirebell, on Instagram@bobbirebell1, and on Facebook@bobbirebell, and DM me with your thoughts on the podcast. Laura Vanderkam is living a very financially grownup life. I got so much value from taking the time to read, Off The Clock, and I know you will too. So thank you Laura for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Carol Roth’s father left a priceless gift when he passed. Now, she is using that to help others map out their plans for everything from their social media accounts, to their cryptocurrency and bitcoin assets, using her innovative FutureFile system. 

 

In Carol’s money story you will learn:

-How losing close members of her family and loved ones impacted her outlook on life, and on finances

-How she got a credit card at the age of 10!

-Why her dad was so concerned about preparing his children for his eventual death

-How her dad created a filing system and what it included

In Carol’s money lesson you will learn: 

-How Carol and her siblings used the file her dad created

-Exactly how much money it saved her and her family, both in actual money but also in the time they did not have to spend on estate related issues

-The mental relief the family had because of the system their dad had put in place

In Carol’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Why Carol believes no one should own depreciating assets

-How we can enjoy things like private jets without having to own them (JK)

-What kinds of investments we should be making instead of in things like cars and boats and planes

-The best use of our transportation dollars

Carol also talks about her business Futurefile.com

-Why she created it

-What it contains including not just places for wills and basic estate planning but also places to put cryptocurrency keys if you have bitcoin, and how to manage social media

In my take you will learn:

-The importance of making a plan, any plan, for when you are ill or pass away

-My experience knowing my mom’s wishes when she passed

-My take on whether you should own a car, and why I don’t fully agree with Carol

-Alternatives ways to save money if you do choose to have a car

 

EPISODE LINKS

Learn more about Carol Roth at https://www.carolroth.com/

Learn more about FutureFile at FutureFile.com

 

Follow Carol!!

Twitter @Caroljsroth

Facebook CarolJSRoth

 

Carol recommended not buying a private plane and instead using

NETJETS.com

More about Carol!

Carol Roth is the creator of the Future File® legacy planning system, “recovering” investment banker, billion-dollar dealmaker, investor, entrepreneur, business advisor, national media personality and author of the New York Times bestselling book, The Entrepreneur Equation.

Carol “plays herself on TV” weekly, having been a reality TV show judge (Mark Burnett’s America’s Greatest Makers on TBS), media contributor to outlets ranging from CNBC to Fox Business, and host of Microsoft’s Office Small Business Academy. She’s recognized internationally as a business expert and has worked with startups to the biggest companies and brands in the world on everything from strategy to content creation and marketing to billions of dollars in capital raising and transactional work.

Carol is dedicated to helping families prepare for and save time, cost and grief that comes with aging, medical issues and passing life events through her Future File products. She is a also former public company director and is a noted small business advocate. She invests in early and mid-stage companies as well.

Carol counts among her “accomplishments” having an action figure made in her own likeness, getting a standing ovation from Richard Branson and having the NFL follow her on Twitter.

 

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Transcription

Carol Roth:
He was very clear. Do not buy me the Cadillac of caskets, which I can tell you, if he had not told me that, there is no way I would have gypped out on dad in that moment. Knowing that he likes black and gold and things like that. I would have spent the money.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of "How to be a Financial Grownup." You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But, it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, that was business expert, Carol Roth. She is author of the bestseller, "The Entrepreneur Equation." You may have also caught her as a judge on the reality TV show, "America's Greatest Makers" on TBS. She's also seen a lot on TV: CNBC, Fox Business. You probably caught her. Her latest venture is called Future File. It's an idea that grew out of her own personal experiences with losing loved ones.

Bobbi Rebell:
Before we get to Carol's interview, a quick welcome to everyone. As our regulars know, we try to keep the shows short to match your busy life. But if you're traveling, commuting and have more time, feel free to binge. You can learn more about Financial Grownup at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast where you can also sign up for our newsletter.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's get to Carol because this interview was a real wake-up call for me on a lot of things that I just don't want to deal with, but Carol is a force to be reckoned with. Here is Carol Roth. Hey, Carol Roth, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Carol Roth:
Bobbi, it is so great to be here and to be all grown up with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, thank you. It is a process for all of us, let me tell you. Many people already know you but, for those who don't, you are a big personality on TV. You are an author of the bestselling book "The Entrepreneur Equation," and you also have a business which is really an important business. We're going to talk about it a little bit more in-depth later in the show. But, it also ties into your money story because your money story led to it. Tell us your money story, Carol Roth.

Carol Roth:
This started when I was a senior in college. So I'm mourning the loss of somebody I had been in a relationship for a year and a half. I go off. I start my career, and my mom was diagnosed with leukemia. A year after that she passed, the day after her 51st birthday. So then I'm mourning these two losses. Then my stepmother, a few years later, is diagnosed with lung cancer, and she passes away at age 55. So at this point in time, my father, who despite not having a formal education, was very financially savvy. My dad was a union electrician. It was amazing. He couldn't spell banana. He spelled it bana, but he was the type of guy, he opened up a credit card for me somewhere around age 10 to establish my credit history.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. You got a credit card at age 10? First of all, they let you have that?

Carol Roth:
They did. Back in the day with a cosigner, as long as he co-signed on it, they didn't care, right? After we endure all these losses he says, “If something were to happen to me, and you and your sister have been through this now multiple times, if something were to happen to me, you guys wouldn't necessarily be prepared. So I'm gonna help you prepare.” Dad kept giving us pieces of paper, and the pieces of paper were, "I don't want you to spend this much money on a casket, I just want this. I don't want you to have two services. I just want a graveside service. Here's my insurance policy for this, and here's my wishes on this." Every time he'd give us a piece of paper, he'd say, "Stick it in the file."

Carol Roth:
So we had this running joke that we had this death file. We go okay, dad, whatever. We just continually collected information. As I said, my dad wasn't formally educated. So, low and behold, five years ago in May, my sister calls me on the phone and is like, "Carol, you know that file that dad has? Grab it and meet me at the hospital. He has been in a freak accident."

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, wow. This is just a paper file. This is not in any kind of cloud storage, on the computer, nothing?

Carol Roth:
No, this is literally a hard copy, accordion file folder with backs of envelopes, paper plates, envelopes, policies, wishes, this kind of amalgamation of information. Oh, and also keys, we had keys to his car, keys to security-

Bobbi Rebell:
So he made copies of the keys for everything?

Carol Roth:
Yes, everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Carol Roth:
Copies of everything, hard copies. So I literally, physically grabbed this file, Bobbi, and I run to the hospital. He had been in this horrible accident, and he was completely out of it, bleeding on the brain. They said, "Do you want us to operate?" We went through, said, "Okay, what does Dad say about this? Okay, Dad says that yes, he wants you to operate." So they went ahead and operated. When he came out, he just never recovered. He was just basically brain dead and being kept alive by machines. So we pull out the piece of paper, including the power-of-attorney that said that we have the authorization to make these decisions. Then we pull out the wishes that Dad had. Dad had said if we've gone through a relevant number of tests and we've gotten a few opinions and everybody's come to the same conclusion that the machines are keeping him alive, to pull the plug. We followed Dad's instructions, and obviously he did not make it. Then we had to go through laying the body to rest within a few days, all of the services and wrapping up his personal affairs.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what are the lessons for our listeners from your story?

Carol Roth:
The benefits that we got that you can get if you preplan is that we saved a lifetime of burden, which is priceless. I don't have to walk around shouldering did I make the right decision in this particular scenario? Should I have gotten another opinion? Because my dad had talked through it, he had written it down, I knew what his wishes were, You can't put a financial price on that. That is priceless.

Carol Roth:
The second thing, from a financial standpoint, is we saved more than 10000 tangible dollars, Bobbi. I'm not even joking. End-of-life costs, what people don't realize, are so incredibly expensive. Average just funeral and burial is $8500. Cremation with a funeral service is close to $7000. So just by going through this, we saved more than $10000, and then the five figures that we did end up spending on all of these sort of end-of-life things, he had put end-of-life insurance in place. So it's something that we didn't have to come up with that money or go into his estate and try and figure that out. So there's a tangible dollar savings.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's the money that you did not spend? Did you not have a funeral that he didn't want? What money did you save because of knowing his wishes?

Carol Roth:
So we saved money on the casket. If you go with a Cadillac of caskets, it could be 6500. It could be $9500. You can get one at Costco for $600. So he was very clear. Do not buy me the Cadillac of caskets, which I can tell you, if he had not told me that, there is no way I would have gypped out on dad in that moment. Knowing that he likes black and gold and things like that, I would have spent the money. So he told us not to do that. He told us to only have a graveside service. So instead of going into the funeral home and having the whole spiel there and then moving everybody to graveside and having a second spiel there, he didn't want that. He said just do the graveside. He didn't want flowers. He didn't want accoutrements. He didn't want programs.

Carol Roth:
Then I'm Jewish, so we do something called sitting shiva, which is similar to sort of visitation in the Christian religion. For that, he said, "Go to our clubhouse. Do it just the day of. Just have this and that and the other thing." By the instructions that he put out, we saved money there. So when we added it all up, it was well into the five figures. Then, as I said, we ended up spending five figures on stuff on top of that, but just the five figures of savings was incredible.

Carol Roth:
Then the other cost that is an indirect cost but was so incredibly valuable is he saved me hundreds of hours of time. If you look at how much I make in an hour, that's tangibly multiple six figures. So 200 at least, maybe 300, hours in trying to track down all of his accounts, all of his policies, making sure that we had everything, trying to find things like that safety deposit box key, making sure that he didn't have a treasure hunt for us somewhere where there was money hidden that we didn't know about. That's real money. I know people don't think of it that way. Sometimes people don't think of their time as money, but there is a true, tangible money cost associated with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. You also brought with you a money tip. Awkwardly switching topics, but this has to do with depreciating assets, not investing in things that are going to go down in value.

Carol Roth:
Right. So basically, if it drives, floats or flies, you don't want to own it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. So I shouldn't aspire to get my private jet?

Carol Roth:
No, buy a NetJet card because when you have an asset, something that quote, unquote "invest in," that decreases in value every time you use it, that's not the kind of investment that you want to be making. But if you have a car and you're living in the city or you're living somewhere else and you don't drive that often, or maybe you're a multiple car household and you have an extra car that you really can do without, sell it. Because the amount of money that you have tied up in that car plus ongoing maintenance plus the cost of gas plus the cost of insurance, you have to license it every year, and some places you have to pay for parking, it's a huge amount of wasted money. We have so many options for transportation now. You have these on-demand services like Uber and Lyft. Obviously, taxis are becoming more competitive because of that. If you do need to go somewhere for a couple of days, you have rental car agencies that will actually deliver the car to you.

Carol Roth:
So if you go through and you write down how much it's going to cost you to take those couple of Ubers and maybe to rent the car a couple of times a year and you add all that up versus how much money that you're spending invested in that car and all of these other maintenance items and you compare the two, I guarantee you there will be no comparison.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. I do want to talk about your latest project because it came from these experiences with loved ones. It's called Future File, and it's genius. So please tell us a little bit about it.

Carol Roth:
When we told people our story, the feedback was so often, "I need to do that for my parents or grandparents." Or "I need to do that for my spouse." Or "I need to do that for myself. I don't know what's going on in the household." Or "We've got kids." So we took this prototype that our dad created for us, and we created a full kit called Future File at futurefile.com. It's basically a roadmap that walks you through everything you need to organize all of your wishes and information for either aging, passing or other family emergencies. So if somebody has a stroke or your house is burning down or whatever it is, it's one location that literally has access to everything you could possibly need. It helps you organize your wills and your powers-of-attorney. Also, your social media wishes, the budgeting that we talked about for long-term care, aging care, end of life. Even a place to put your cryptocurrency keys if you have bitcoin.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, wow. I know because you could have that, and then no one can get to it.

Carol Roth:
Well, that's the thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
They have to know.

Carol Roth:
Literally, it's not like a bank account that eventually, after hours and hours and hours and showing death certificates and going through probate, that you can access. If somebody doesn't have those keys, it's lost forever. So we didn't want to create any barriers to people doing this, so there's no subscription model. It's one-time. It's just under a hundred bucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, wow, that's it? That's amazing.

Carol Roth:
Yeah, if you listen to the story and you understand those burdens, it makes sense. So do it. Prepare yourself, prepare your family, and you'll help us give that gift that our father gave to us to you and your family.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people find out more about you and Future File?

Carol Roth:
Yes. So Future File, go to futurefile.com. Tons of information there. The best place to find me, especially if you have a little bit of an odd and off-color sense of humor, is on Twitter at caroljsroth.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you, Carol.

Carol Roth:
Thanks so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
So that was pretty heavy stuff but important to hear. I personally would prefer to just live in denial, but if we're going to be grownups, it's going to catch up to us sooner or later.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. I think Carol did a great job getting her point across. No plan is actually a burden on your survivors. So make a plan. Include traditional assets, but also, if you can, leave instructions for the less tangible things. Try to envision the kind of decisions that will be made if you would pass or if you were very ill. If you don't want to decide for them, empower them to make the decision that they think is best without worrying about what you would think. When my mom passed, she was very specific about a few things for my dad and for me and for my siblings, and that gave us all comfort and the freedom to know she was okay with our choices.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Carol talked a lot about getting rid of cars. So here's the thing. She may be right financially, but let's face it, for some people, it's just part of their lifestyle. It's like asking someone whose only joy is that latte to give up their latte. They need to cut something different. You can find a workaround. So in this case, maybe cut expenses that are related to the car or the asset that is depreciating. One option, renegotiate your insurance. Shop around. Consolidating your insurance can also be a way to lower the cost. Also, if you park in a garage, maybe you can park on the street. Can you renegotiate the garage fee? Is there a tax break associated with the garage if you are resident? We get that here in New York City. If you park at work, can your company reimburse or subsidize the parking? For those of us who have private jets, for example, we know fuel is getting more expensive. One way to pare back costs ... okay, I was just kidding about the whole private jet thing. Anyway, moving on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for supporting the show. Hit subscribe if you can, and we'd love reviews and feedback. So thank you in advance if you can squeeze that into your day. Let's all try to find time soon to make a future file. Thank you, Carol Roth, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Broadway Roulette founder and CEO Liz Durand Streisand literally gave birth to her child just as her business came to life. Having that dual focus on the baby and Broadway Roulette created the perspective and balance to keep push past challenges and grow them both. 

Celebrity journalist turned CEO creating a new marketplace model to buy and sell event tickets. After a decade in the trenches of New York's entertainment scene, Liz saw the opportunity to pair expiring inventory to cultural events with consumers who were being bombarded by choice overload -- and Broadway Roulette was born. Broadway Roulette's key investors include Jesse Draper of Halogen Ventures and Randi Zuckerberg of Zuckerberg media. In 2018, Broadway Roulette was accepted to Morgan Stanley's Multicultural Innovation Lab, an accelerator focused on female and minority-led companies positioned to disrupt industries.

In Liz’s money story you will learn: 

-About Liz’s background as an entertainment and lifestyle journalist journalist covering celebrities like the Kardashians

-How she and her co-founder husband came up with the idea for affordable tickets to ALL Broadway shows

-Why the business morphed from a hobby to a business

-How they launched the business at the same time he was making a career change and their child was born, and the challenges that came with it

-How being a busy mom impacted the business- as a positive

In Liz’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of choosing a life partner that really sees you as a true life partner

-How Liz breaks down big projects into smaller and more manageable tasks

In Liz’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Why Liz feels hiring a stylist is worth the money

-How it will save you money

-Specific ways to find the stylist that is right for you and your budget

In my take you will learn:

-How to get tickets to Broadway shows and other live events at deep discounts

-Ways to find free tickets to events and shows

Episode Links

Learn more about Broadway Roulette at Broadwayroulette.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/missdurand/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/broadwayroulette/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/missdurandnyc?lang=en

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BWayRoulette?lang=en

  

Here are some options for discount and free Broadway tickets:

http://www.playbill.com/article/broadway-rush-lottery-and-standing-room-only-policies-com-116003

https://www.nytix.com/Links/Broadway/lotteryschedule.html

 

Great article in the penny hoarder on getting free and discount theater tickets!

https://www.thepennyhoarder.com/smart-money/discount-theatre-tickets/

 

Seat fillers!

https://seatfillersandmore.com/

https://www.theaterextras.com/about.aspx

 

You could even go to the Oscars!!

https://www.refinery29.com/2018/01/189571/oscars-seat-filler-academy-awards-interview

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Transcription

Liz Durand:
One day I was at the box office in labor, but didn't know it, buying tickets at the box office. Two days later I was back at the box office with no baby, buying tickets again. And the box office manager, there's two that are women, the one who was at the window that moment looked at me and was like, what just happened? Where is your baby?

Bobbi Rebell:
Your listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of how to be a financial grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own we got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, it is summer time to get out and do some fun things, oh but that budget. Well, this show is for you wherever you live. I hope this inspires you to go to live theater or go to a concert or whatever you enjoy. Just get out because it can be affordable in part because there are more and more disruptors in the entertainment business, like our guest who heads up Broadway Roulette. Welcome everyone. Thanks for joining us. If you have not already, please subscribe to the podcast, we try to keep it to about 15 minutes to fit easily into your schedule. If you have more time, you can binge on, more episodes, especially if you're in a long car ride, going somewhere to visit friends. Maybe you're visiting some friends in New York. Our guests, Liz Durand Streisand knows all about that. Before she and her husband became parents, they had a lot of friends staying with them in their New York City apartment because they had something you don't hear about very often here in New York City, a spare bedroom. So their friends would come and they would want to see shows, but the big Broadway shows, the ones that they had heard of, we're always either sold out or ridiculously expensive. Fast forward, Liz and her husband came up with a way to disrupt the old Broadway discount model. Let's spend a money story with Broadway Roulette's Liz Durand Streisand.

Bobbi Rebell:
Liz Durand Streisand you're a financial grownup welcome to the podcast.

Liz Durand:
Thank you for having me, so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I'm excited to learn more about Broadway Roulette. What is Broadway Roulette?

Liz Durand:
Broadway Roulette, it's basically price Priceline for Broadway with only two levels of bids. So you go onto the site and tell us when you want to go and how many tickets you're looking for and set some basic criteria about the type of show you want to see or don't want to see. And then the morning of the show you get an email that's like, surprise this is the show you're seeing and all the tickets are a flat price, so you don't have to like negotiate with your friends or look for discounts are stand in lines.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. We're going to talk more about that in a minute, but I want to talk about your money story because it ties into Broadway roulette. This happens all the time I feel, people are going through major life changes in their personal life. They're having babies, they're getting married, they're moving. All these things are happening and that is exactly when the greatest business opportunity ever just drops in their lap. Tell us your money story.

Liz Durand:
So I liked to be very orderly and very type A, which made me a good New Yorker for many years and I wanted to do things in the order that made sense and I saved 10% of my paycheck every month and did all that good stuff. I had a career as a journalist. I've been doing it for about a decade. I was very settled. It was very steady.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're being modest, you were a very top entertainment journalist.

Liz Durand:
Yeah I was probably like the most prolific entertainment journalist in New York City for a decade. I wrote for every major publication that anyone has read on their phone, on the subway, on the way to work, hoping no one is seeing the story they're reading about the Kardashians. That was me.

Bobbi Rebell:
But they loved it.

Liz Durand:
But They loved to, and I actually really enjoyed it. And I would married. And then I finally was able to have a baby, which was very exciting, but at the same time that that happened HIS business that we had started kind of, not like as a joke, but as a hobby. It was sort of a side project just to see if anything would happen. And you know, two days after I gave birth, we landed this major contract with our first Broadway show and it was time to decide like go big or go home. He was actually in a very cushy family office job and it was about six weeks after I had the baby that he decided that would be a great time for him to leave that job and go basically be what I call a financial, a cowboy, to strike out on his own.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also in that time period this financing comes through.

Liz Durand:
Yeah, it was right around the same time. We had been sort of casually talking to friends and family about, hey, would you want to give us money for this weird thing we built in our living room? And that none of us know really that much about. And it turned out that the answer was yes. We met with two, they were technically venture firms but they were friends and they both said yes within a few hours of meeting us and that kind of, the tide turned and all the checks came in and all of a sudden it was just time to go for it. And you know, the timing was terrible in the sense that it's like I was nursing every three hours. I had just had a baby, my husband had just left his job, but the timing was also the timing. That's when it was. So it was the perfect timing because that was the only time if I didn't say yes to that money then, they weren't going to come back in six months and say, "Oh, can I give you money now?" They're giving the money now. So now is the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So what happened next?

Liz Durand:
So what happened next is I briefly lost my mind. I was working around the clock literally, plus not sleeping because I was taking care of the baby. So I was running out to buy Broadway tickets in the two hour pocket-

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were, just to be clear, you're literally, it looks like you've got this massive company going on. You, Liz are going out and literally procuring these tickets.

Liz Durand:
Yes. So like one day at the box office and I was in labor but didn't know it buying tickets at the box office. Two days later I was back at the box office with no baby buying tickets again and the box office manager, there's two that are women in Broadway and the one who was at the window that moment was a woman and she looked at me and was like, "What just happened? Where, where is your baby?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my God.

Liz Durand:
But I think that's just ... on one hand I was very out of sorts because there's just all the drama that you just had a baby. But on the other hand was actually really nice for me to have something that was like the anchor and a goal that was unrelated to becoming a mother. That was, I have this business that is growing that needs my attention and the act of like leaving my apartment and running around in 95 degree weather and buying tickets at the theaters and begging people to hold them for me, actually was something that was very familiar at that point. And it gave me a sense of stability during a time that felt like it could have been just like spiraling out of control. In a weird way it was actually nice to do something over and over that wasn't that enjoyable, but that I knew how to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you look back, what is your takeaway for the listeners? If they experience something like that? And a lot of people do. Not that situation, but the convergence of different parts of their lives at the same time.

Liz Durand:
I think there's two things. I think it's important that you pick a life partner who truly sees you as a partner. Whether you want to pursue business or you just want to, do something else with your time. You want to work on charity, you want to take care of your kids. Having someone who's going to back you and they're going to back you, not because they necessarily agree with everything you want to do, but because they agree that you should be allowed to do whatever you want to do and you should use the corded is the number one thing. The second thing is just breaking big projects down into small manageable tasks. Like when you're sitting there and you're trying to nurse and the baby's not latching on and you haven't slept in like eight hours. It feels like that's never going to end and your life is never, this is going to be your future forever and I think it's important to break down that bigger thing into a smaller task like all I have to do right now is try for 10 more minutes and then I'm going to put the baby down and I'm going to go buy these Broadway tickets and when I get back I'll try again.

Liz Durand:
And I'm going to give myself permission right now to not think that because this one moment didn't work that the rest of my life isn't going to work.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also have an everyday money tip that I had not really thought of. I've resisted doing this, but you made me think about it very differently and I'm really excited to kind of consider this.

Liz Durand:
My money is if you are a woman with limited time, hire a stylist immediately. Unless you love shopping as an actual recreational pastime and it's something you do socially or you find it relaxing, cut it out. You don't need to be doing it. Hire someone the money you pay that person to accrue all the clothes for you, will be paid out in spades because they will number one, find things that are $25 that look like $200 or $2000. And number two, all that time that you would have spent trying things on at the store feeling bad about yourself, you can instead spend on something that is more valuable to you, like an extra hour at the park with your child or sending three extra emails that wouldn't have gotten done because you just wasted an hour at Bloomingdale's staring at 300 pairs of shoes and bought nothing.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know my hesitation is, oh, it feels so frivolous to spend money paying someone to shop for me, and then what if they make me buy things are too expensive. I don't want to spend that much money. I feel like there's a lot of reasons people resist that kind of thing.

Liz Durand:
Well you need to find one who you're comfortable with who you can say to them, "I don't like this, I'm not buying it." But if you find the right one, it saves you so much time and so much money because you get an entire wardrobe that's like $25 dresses and then you have one handbag that goes with all those dresses that was a splurge, and now everything looks like it was a splurge. And I just think the emotional toll and the energy toll of shopping if you don't enjoy it, is so high. There's something to be said for outsourcing things so that you have time to work on things that add value. Like if you're not standing at Bloomingdale's, being miserable, finding things you don't like, that time can be spent on finding new clients. That time can be spent on something that generates revenue, that pays for the stylists, plus stylists are frankly not that expensive. They can shop in an hour, what it takes you, takes me four hours to find a dress that I don't really like, but I've finally given up because my friend's wedding is tomorrow and I need something. That's my shopping experience. My stylist in one hour, she's got me a wardrobe for the next six months.

Bobbi Rebell:
So where can people find a stylist?

Liz Durand:
I think Instagram is a great place to go. As much as I have a love hate relationship with social media, I think if you find someone who's page you like who has style that looks like yours, that's a great place to go and find someone. It's also great to ask your friends because any of your friends that have really good style like that, I'd bet ne of them is using a stylist. A lot of people [inaudible 00:10:47] tell you unless you ask. It's like a dirty little secret.

Bobbi Rebell:
Whoa. Alright, let's talk a little bit more about Broadway Roulette. One of the many things that impresses me is that if I go to one of the traditional ticket booths to buy a discount ticket, the shows that I see on the board are often the shows that are having a lot of trouble filling seats. When I go to Broadway Roulette, the shows are the ones we all want those tickets for. How does that happen?

Liz Durand:
Well, to be fully transparent, every Broadway show, except for the top like five average, have about 25% of their seats empty on any given night. There's very, very few shows that are actually sold out all the time consistently. The ones on the board in Times Square, which I affectionately call the wall of shame. It doesn't mean that they're terrible shows and it doesn't mean that you don't want to see it or that they have tons of empty etas, it means that the people that are behind that show have done the math and figured out that they'd rather have these seats sell at whatever price they're offering it there than have them go empty. There's other shows that decide they'd rather just not do that and not have their name up there and not have the seats all sell. So it is actually more of a management question then like a quality of the show question, but the way that our system works, we work directly with the Broadway shows. One of our big sales pitches to the show partners is, it's not an advertised discount or customers don't know what they're buying and so it protects your brand in a way that's very unique compared to like a big slash through it that says 80% off.

Liz Durand:
And because our brand partners to us as a company that is sort of based on the concept of rising tide lifts all boats versus race to the bottom, we're able to broker better seats at cheaper rates than you can find on public discount. And the second part of that is that we make a conscious effort to include, we literally send people to every single show on Broadway regularly. And that's a marketing expense for us. And the reason we do that is that we're not primarily a discounter where a discovery platform. So there's tickets to Hamilton and Dear Evan Hansen and Hello Dolly and all the shows that you won't be able to see if you go to the TKTS booth, though I do think there's a time and place for that and no shade to TKTS. If you're not beholden to a particular show, this is a great way to see everything. And our customers do use our service over and over and over and we eliminate every show that you've ever seen through us every time you spin. So you can go 30 times and see 30 different shows.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is also a great business model because it promotes loyalty.

Liz Durand:
Yes it encourages repeat business. The thing I like about that part of the model especially, I mean really and truly is let's say we have a customer that we send to Miss Saigon that show's closed now, but let's say we send them to Miss Saigon. They have a great experience. That then prompts them to buy another ticket through Broadway Roulette. We then send them to, let's say, Phantom. We've now basically the experience that Miss Saigon has helped sell a ticket for Phantom. So our argument is that all the shows that work with us are helping each other versus competing for the consumer business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. Liz, where can people learn more about Broadway Roulette and about you?

Liz Durand:
Well, you can learn about Broadway Roulette on our site, it's just broadwayroulette.com. It's simple fun and easy, which is sort of our sales pitch. And the best place to follow me is just my Instagram account, which is just Miss Durand.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that.

Liz Durand:
Lot's of cute pictures, if don't want to see cute pictures of the child don't follow my Instagram.

Bobbi Rebell:
Cool. Well thank you so much.

Liz Durand:
Yeah, thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Liz's story resonates on so many levels, but let's start with the one that's the most fun, which is getting tickets for what you want for less money. Financial Grownup tip number one, just because you don't have a big budget doesn't mean you can't see big shows. First of all, Broadway Roulette, as we discussed, is a game changer. But I'm also going to give you some other options, all of which have pros and cons. Obviously with Broadway Roulette you can see the best shows for less, but you do give up some control. Personally, I think that for as little as 49 bucks a ticket, that is part of the fun, but okay, maybe you're just in town for one night and you want to see a very specific show. You want another option. Most Broadway and off Broadway shows sell rush tickets and they also have lotteries.

Bobbi Rebell:
Some are online and some you do have to go in person. They can run for as little as $10 as is the case of Hamilton. Most are around 40 bucks, but yes, you can see Hamilton for as little as 10 bucks. You've got to be really lucky though, but it's there. Broadway shows also have standing room tickets. They are often under 30 bucks. Also look for student and active military discounts. Links that will tell you all the details for each show are going to be in the show notes. Financial Grownup tip number two, better than discount is free. Free entertainment this summer, there's also free theater in many cities. For example, right here in New York City where I live, we have free Shakespeare in the park. So you can wait in line, got to get up early, but you can also enter the online lottery. So if you've got to be at work, it's okay. Just remember to do this. I've always been able to get tickets at least once per summer. You may have to try a bunch of times, but you know what? Just set a reminder on your phone to enter each day and you're good to go wherever you live there are opportunities.

Bobbi Rebell:
One option, for example, get social. Follow the venue on social media of what you want to see. Sometimes if a theater isn't full, they will actually offer free or heavily discounted tickets to followers. You can also see things for free if you're willing to volunteer at a theater, maybe ushering or doing various other jobs to support the production. One thing I've yet to do but I hear about and I'm so curious about is being a seat filler. I'll leave links in the show notes, but basically you attend show tapings or live musicals or plays so they don't have empty seats and the stigma that goes with them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Alright. Thank you all for spending your time with us. It means a lot as do the social media DM's and shares that we've been getting. Please be in touch. I am at Bobbi Rebell on Twitter. And Bobbyrebell1 on Instagram. And if you're coming to New York, try Broadway Roulette. You can book up to three months in advance and if you follow them on social, they do freebie giveaways. Just saying. Thanks Liz for sharing the story of the birth of your business and your baby and for helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

 

Newlywed Hilary Hendershott CFP® found herself with a limited cash flow after launching her own financial advisory firm, and started using her husband’s credit cards to make up the difference. What she considered to be a money secret she was keeping from her new husband, she discovered actually wasn’t, but was the catalyst that brought them together to discuss their finances as a married unit.

 

In Hilary’s money story you will learn:

-How as newlyweds, Hilary and her husband set up their finances

-The unseen pitfall that caught them both off guard

-Why Hilary considered spending money on her husband’s credit cards a “secret”

-What happened when she revealed her actions

 

In Hilary’s money lesson you will learn:

-Specifically what Hilary would do now in the same situation

-The exact questions you should be asking if your financial partners- romantic or otherwise

-Ways to motivate yourself to be financially open even in uncomfortable situations

In Hilary’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-Why she is against buying service plans from auto dealerships

-The tactics they use to get you to buy the plans and how to flag them

-How to find alternative options to keeping you car properly maintained

-How Hilary got burned at auto dealerships

In my take you will learn:

-The importance of discussing cashflow, not just revenue

-Why taking ownership of your actions is the key to finding solutions

-The biggest danger of not talking about credit card bills with your partner

-How identity theft can be more of a threat if multiple people use the same credit card account

EPISODE LINKS

Learn more about Hilary Hendershott and the Profit Boss® Radio Podcast

https://www.hilaryhendershott.com

Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/hilarythecfp

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/profitbossradio

 

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Transcription

Hilary Hendersh:
I don't know if I'd found one of his credit cards laying around, or it was a credit card that I was using, or using intermittently. Well anyway, I started using this credit card to live off of. And this went on for months, and every time I pulled it out I felt like I was cheating or lying or stealing or something, but I was doing this thing that I didn't have agreement to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. And you know what, being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so if you spend your significant other's money and you don't actively tell them that you are spending that money is that cheating? I'll let you guys be the judge.

Bobbi Rebell:
Quick welcome to our newest listeners and welcome back to everyone else. Hit that subscribe button while you are there. We do three short episodes a week to fit your schedule. Each episode delivers a money story from a high achiever, a lesson in takeaway so you can apply it to your own life, and an every day money tip to help you save and have more money. If you've got more than about 15 minutes feel free to binge, get a few lessons in a row.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, now to our guest, Hilary Hendershott. In addition to being the real deal, a certified financial planner who has been named one of Investopedia's Top 100 Financial Advisors she also hosts the Profit Boss Radio podcast, which I highly recommend. I'm going to be a guest on a future episode likely in the fall. She is also relatively newlywed but regrets keeping a secret from her new husband, or did she? Here is Hilary Hendershott.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Hilary Hendershott you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Hilary Hendersh:
Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
And congratulations, you are one of Investopedia's Top 100 Financial Advisors, quiet an honor.

Hilary Hendersh:
Isn't that cool? Yeah, I'm honored to be ranked.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you are a certified financial planner, which we know is serious business, and of course your hit podcast Profit Boss Radio podcast, which I am huge fan of. So, welcome.

Hilary Hendersh:
Thank you so much, I'm really happy to be a financial grownup today.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you brought with you a great story and a very interesting one with a little bit of a plot twist. You were apparently using your husband's credit cards without his knowledge, but there's a lot more of the story, tell us.

Hilary Hendersh:
So for many years I worked for my father's financial planning for about 15 years. I went out on my own in 2014, so I took my clients and I formed a registered investment advisory firm. So here I am, I'm a bootstrapping entrepreneur and my husband was very generous, he said, "Of course, don't pay yourself for a while." And I think any of you who've started a business you understand you just really feel like all that dry kindling needs to go back onto fan the flames of the fire that is your new business. So I was not drawing an income from my business.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you were relatively newlywed, correct?

Hilary Hendersh:
We got married in 2013, yes so we were newlyweds. My husband had his own banking system, I had my own banking system we didn't join accounts, so I had separate checking account from him. So, I didn't think about the fact that we had set this scenario up where there was no money coming into the account that I was spending from. And so, I get to the end like I didn't want to go below $1,000 in this account, but there's no money coming in. I'm like, "What am I going to do now?" Well I happen to ... I don't know if I'd found one of his credit cards laying around or it was a credit card that I was using or using intermittently. Well anyway, I started using this credit card to live off of. And this went on for months, and every time I pulled it out I felt like I was cheating, or lying, or stealing, or something, but I was doing this thing that I didn't have agreement to do. And finally I was like, "I have to come clean honey, I've been spending on your credit card to live."

Hilary Hendersh:
And he said, "I know."

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, but you didn't tell him and you thought he didn't know. I was about to ask you, wait who's paying these bills? Doesn't he look at the bills? So the people have auto pay.

Hilary Hendersh:
Well he was.

Bobbi Rebell:
People have auto pay.

Hilary Hendersh:
No, he paid the bills and I just thought maybe he wasn't paying attention. I don't know that he combs the transactions at a detailed level. It wasn't like the portal was accounting for this is Hilary's card versus this is your card. I don't know what I thought, I was just in denial. I think I just probably wishing and hoping that my surreptitious little activities were not being found out by him. But of course, we're married it's all joint assets anyway, but it was just the fact that I hadn't asked him or gotten approval, it wasn't what we had planned. It wasn't what we said would happen. And I said to him, "How in the world were we designed? How did you think I was going to get money? How was money ever going to come into my accounts?"

Hilary Hendersh:
And he said something about me taking profit distributions from my business.

Hilary Hendersh:
And I said, "But I wasn't taking money out of the business." He and I just had very different expectations of what was happening from a cashflow management perspective, but it was very cool that he gave me a very soft landing, because when I did say, "I've been using your credit card to live."

Hilary Hendersh:
And he said, "I know."

Bobbi Rebell:
Awe that's so nice. So then how did it evolve? What system did you put in place?

Hilary Hendersh:
Well now I'm on payroll.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, but I mean did you just say, "Well okay, we'll continue this"? Or did you just merge your accounts then? Or did it just continue where you were just still using his credit card but you guys were open about it?

Hilary Hendersh:
I think a little bit of both. I think he like wrote me a check for $20,000 or something so I had money in my checking account. And then we did create a joint account so I changed my bank over to his bank, and now I'm on payroll from the business. So, our personal finances evolved and grew, but we really should have been spending from the same bank account before that. But, yeah so we just kind of dealt with it step-by-step.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from that? What is their takeaway?

Hilary Hendersh:
I think it's really common at the beginning of starting a business for someone's spouse to financially support them. And if you're going to do that you just want to be clear where's the pool of funds that you're actually spending from? And you want to be I think in communication, how much can I spend and have us still be on track for our plan? What is your expectation here? I think the problem was that Robert and I just didn't fully talk through the plan. What saved me was my need to be ... I really am fundamentally an honest person. I'm like, "Uh I need to come clean here." But being open and transparent communication with your partner, your spouse is your financial partner. And so, being able to talk about that really helps.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it sounds like he is really supportive of the business.

Hilary Hendersh:
Oh tremendously. I could not have done it without him. Yeah, absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, I want to talk about your money tip because it is something that so many people don't even think twice about, they just assume it's the best thing to do, but maybe not always.

Hilary Hendersh:
Yeah, so when you buy a car from a dealership they give you this schedule of appointments that you're supposed to be on for maintenance and tune-ups, that's a major profit center for those dealerships, those maintenance garages, or fix it places. So, I just went on Yelp and I found a four and a half star local mechanic and we take our cars there. I don't think I've had more than about $100 in maintenance costs over the last seven to eight years. One time I could literally hear the brake discs grinding on each other and I brought the car in thinking I was going to spend ... I had mentally budgeted like $1,000. I was like, "Maybe it'll be like $700 but I don't want to be disappointed, so I'll mentally budget $1,000."

Hilary Hendersh:
The guy said, "I'm going to retool it, it costs $49." It's like I can't spend money at this place if I try to, so that's my tip.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what do you think goes on that people are always feeling like they have to go the dealerships? And full disclosure, when we bought our car we did pre-pay for a maintenance plan. And so, we are locked in because we've paid for it, to our dealer.

Hilary Hendersh:
It's just a problem of information and education. A lot of people in my world, I see come into my office with things inside their investment portfolio that they don't understand, or aren't good for them, or have hidden fees. And under the hood of the car is the same thing. I myself, I know nothing about vehicles. And so, you want to trust dealer just sold you your car. You've been sitting with them all Saturday afternoon and they say, "This is your maintenance schedule."

Hilary Hendersh:
And you don't want to have to think, "Well I'm being taken advantage of or there's a way I can get it for a quarter of the cost." But you know these are huge profit centers for the dealerships and in my experience is I feel that I've been personally taken advantage of because I didn't know what to say or what to ask for.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well what happened at the dealer that you got burned?

Hilary Hendersh:
I think getting really high ticket maintenance bills. Having to do things like, "Well, we removed the rotor," or whatever.

Hilary Hendersh:
And then you go, "Okay can I see the part?" Because somebody tells you that in order to be a critical consumer you need to ask for your old parts.

Hilary Hendersh:
And they go, "Well, it's already at the dump," or whatever. Just signs of lack of credibility. And it's been so long since I've been to a dealership that I definitely am not going to remember the details, but just the fact of my maintenance costs went from several thousand dollars a year to under $100.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great advice. All right, before I let you go, tell me a little more about Profit Boss Radio and your mission, and a little bit about the show, and where people can find you.

Hilary Hendersh:
Yes, so Profit Boss Radio is your wealth mastermind. So, I take all the best of what I've learned over 18 years as a certified financial planner. I do solo shows on technical topics like, how to debunk economic doomsayers. You know those articles that always say, "The stock market's going to fall. The stock market's a huge bubble." I pull those articles apart and talk through every line item of them so that you understand how to think about and what to do about them when you read them. We've had finance experts such as David Bach and Dan Ariely on the show. I interview everyday entrepreneurs and even some really incredible everyday women, so not media experts but women who have done just remarkable things in their own financial life. I interviewed a single mom, she was left with no money and three kids, she had literally no income and now she owns a major clothing studio and online business living in the house of her dreams having paid cash for all of her kid's college. She was just an incredible interview. So lots of different kinds of topics. The show is designed to empower you financially to take control of your money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well I am a huge fan of the podcast and of you. Where can people find you and follow you?

Hilary Hendersh:
If you have room in your podcast lineup check out Profit Boss Radio wherever you find your podcast online. You can find me HilaryHendershott.com and that is Hilary with one l and Hendershott with two t's.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much, this was amazing.

Hilary Hendersh:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay everyone here is my take. The first year's of any relationship that merges finances romantic or not is always challenging. Financial Grownup Tip #1, Hilary did talk to her new husband about the fact that she would not have income in the early stages of her business, but then she didn't follow up with exactly how the cashflow would work. So it was an incomplete discussion. Don't assume that your partner is making the leap to the next step. While Hilary takes ownership of her actions and feels she should have told him she was spending on his account, and she should have, why didn't he point out the charges to her? Because here's the really alarming thing about this story, given that he did not ask her or anyone about the charges that were appearing on his bill, how did he know that they were not unauthorized charges from strangers, and that his credit card and/or identity had not been compromised?

Bobbi Rebell:
So Financial Grownup Tip #2, if more than one person in your family is using a credit card or even a debit card you need to really be communicating. So taking it beyond the spouse example, maybe to build credit you put your teenage child on a credit card, or some people may give a caregiver a debit card to pay for expenses for a child. Make sure that person is giving you receipts or at the very least communicating what their buying. You may assume that because for example, they shop at Walmart every charge from Walmart is legit and is theirs, but a smart thief might make charges at places you already shop thus avoiding detection. Just think about it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for spending some time with us. Feel free to binge a little and check out some other episodes. Learn more about Financial Grownup at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast and do follow us on social media. I am on Twitter @BobbiRebell and on Instagram at Bobbi Rebell 1.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hilary's relationship with her hubby is still going strong as is her growing financial advisory business. Be sure to check out Profit Boss Radio for more great insights from Hilary, and thank you to my friend for bringing us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stuart and is a BRK Media production.

Jessi Fearon lives her Real Life on a Budget- but getting her husband in line when he saw a great sale on Fireworks was still a challenge. Plus her tips on how she got her book buying obsession under control!

 

In Jessi’s money story you will learn: 

-Why her husband blew the budget on fireworks!

-How he tried to avoid telling her about the splurge

-How she reacted when she found out he spent more on fireworks than on their wedding

-What her husband’s buddies had to say about the situation

-What else the Fearon’s could have bought with the money he spent on the fireworks

-The upside of the incident: they had their first big money talk as a couple

-The mindset that allowed Jessi to forgive her husband, and give him a roadmap for handing future temptations

 

In Jessi’s money lesson you will learn:

-Tools to put in play if you are a saver married to a spender

-How to better understand and manage the mindset of an unintentional spender

-Specific ways Jessi and her husband set and execute financial priorities

-Exactly how much money Jessi now gives her husband when he goes shopping for fireworks

 

In Jessi’s every day money tip you will learn:

-How Jessi spent over $250 in one year on books on Amazon.com

-How she was tempted to spend more than she realized

-How Jessi rediscovered the library

 

In my take you will learn:

-Why approaching well-intentioned overspenders in a non-judgemental way can be effective in helping them to adjust their behavour

-Specific pitfalls that trigger us into spending more than we planned, and how to counteract them

-How to understand the mindset of consumers who fall into the trap of spending more than they planned because of well-designed targeted sales tactics

-The benefits of having intentional discussions with anyone with whom you have shared finances. 

 

Episode Links:

Learn more about Jessi’s blog jessifearon.com

Get Jessi’s new free five-day money challenge

 

Follow Jessi!

Instagram @jessifearon

Twitter @Jessifearon

Facebook @JessiFearon

---

Transcription

Jessi Fearon:
They were having to buy two, get two free. And so he just kept buying stuff, and he said, “I didn't even pay attention when I checked out how much it was”. They looked at the receipt, and his buddy was like, “dude, you seriously spent $700 on fireworks”.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Happy 4th of July, my friends, we have a special just for Independence Day money story. Thanks to our friend Jessi Fearon from Real Life on a Budget. Hopefully you are relaxing and not at work today. If you're joining us for the first time, welcome. Glad to have our returning folks as well, and thank you all for the DMs and the social sharing that's been going on. It's been so fun watching the show continue to gain traction, and we have you guys to thank. So, thank you. Hopefully, like I said, you're getting some time off this holiday week. For mom, Jessi Fearon, who is also an accountant, by the way. She celebrates every 4th of July with her husband, her family, and her friends in Georgia. And her husband is in her words, a total pyro. He loves his fireworks. So much so that he blew the budget, literally, which is not going to fly when your wife runs a blog called Real Life on a Budget. Here is Jessi Fearon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jessi Fearon, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jessi Fearon:
Well, thank you Bobbi, I appreciate you having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I am a huge fan of your blog, Real Life on a Budget, because you get very real. So, congratulations on the success of all that.

Jessi Fearon:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you manage it down in Georgia with three kids, which is pretty cool.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Yes. My sweet three children that can drive me crazy sometimes, but are such a blessing at the same time.

Bobbi Rebell:
And not to be forgotten, your husband, who ... This is ... Okay, little bit of trivia here, so your wedding, for fans of your blog, they already know this. Your wedding cost all of $500.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
But, your husband spent even more, more than ... Your husband spent more than your entire wedding budget on fireworks. So this is an episode that we're going to drop in honor of July 4th. You have the ultimate July 4th money story. Go for it, Jessi.

Jessi Fearon:
Okay, well, a real quick little just background. It was our first year as a married couple. So we decided that we were going to celebrate the 4th of July with a good old American barbecue. And at the time our state, Georgia. You couldn't buy fireworks in the state of Georgia. You had to go outside the state. And so my husband and his buddies, they load up the truck, and they take the two hour trek over to Alabama. They buy fireworks, and they come back. And I'll never forget it. Me and my girlfriends were watching the truck pull in, and it literally looked like the Clampetts coming down the road. There were so many fireworks in the bed of this truck, it was insane. I mean, I even commented to one of the friends, I was like, "oh my goodness, it looks like they just bought fireworks enough for town hall to shoot off tonight". And so as I'm walking up to the truck, my husband's friends had this look on their face.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, oh. Like this guilty look?

Jessi Fearon:
Yeah. It's like they didn't want to talk to me, they didn't wanna look at me. It was almost like they were afraid they were gonna witness a murder or something, like they just didn't want to talk to me. And I was like, okay. And so I kind of made a joke to one of them. I said, "good mighty, how much did y'all spend"? And the one friend goes, "oh no, it wasn't us". "It was not y'all, it was your husband". What? I look over at my husband, I'm like, "honey, how much did you spend"? And so he starts going to this big deal about how they had this great sale, that it was like, buy two, get two free, and blah blah blah. And I'm like, "okay honey, how much did you spend"? And he was like, "oh, we'll talk about it later". So in my mind I'm thinking, okay, he spent a lot of money. He spent probably like $200. I'm thinking that's an insane amount of money. How could you spent $200 on fireworks, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
So you're guessing he splurged and spent about $200.

Jessi Fearon:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
What happens next?

Jessi Fearon:
I cornered my husband and I finally got him to tell me how much she spent. But he spent $702.48 on fireworks. And I literally couldn't believe it. I thought he was joking. I kept looking at him like, what? No you did not. That's our rent money. How could you spend $700 on fireworks? And I was so mad, and so upset, I didn't scream and yell, but it was one of those things where you could just tell that I was really upset about this. I couldn't talk to anybody anymore. I was like, how could you spend $700 on fireworks?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and to put that in context too, you do disclose some of your budgeting and your expenses online, but give us a high level, what would $700 buy in the Fearon household in a typical month?

Jessi Fearon:
That would have bought groceries for about three months at that time, because it was just the two of us. So that would have bought groceries for about three months. That would have paid the one car payment that we had for two months. It would have definitely covered utilities probably for about six months, at the time. And it was in fact our rent money. So it was quite the expense. It definitely was not planned. I really did not think my husband was going to spend that much money. To say that my husband's a pyro is a little bit of an understatement. He likes to blow stuff up.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what happened next? You have this talk.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes. So the next morning, I remember I was still so mad. I could not believe it. And the thing is, that you can't return fireworks. It's a nonrefundable sale. So, it's not like we could take back any fireworks, because I mean, again, my husband bought so many fireworks, we couldn't even shoot them all off that one night. We had to shoot them off on Labor Day and then on New Year's Day, because there were so many still left. I remember we were cleaning up from the party and we were putting all the fireworks that were left over in the garage. I remember, I was so, so mad, and I kept thinking like, I just wanna scream, I just want to yell. But then the more and more I thought about it, I thought, okay, if I just scream and yell we're not going to get anywhere in this conversation. So why don't I just kind of calm down and take my emotions out of it, and talk to him about this, because I really need to know why he would spend $700. I was raised in a very frugal household, and you don't spend $700 on fireworks. Only people with yachts spend $700 on fireworks. Why would you do this? And so I remember I just kind of turned around to my husband and I was like, "this was a lot of fireworks". And he goes, "it kind of is, isn't it"? "I went a little overboard, didn't I"? And I was like, "yeah honey, you went a little overboard". "So you want to tell me about this because this was a lot of money you spent". This is the first time that I really got to see how, because I'm a saver, my husband's a spender. And so this is first time I got to see how kind of a spender, for him anyways, rationalized his purchase. And it was because of that really awesome sale they were having. They were having to buy two, get two free. And so he just kept buying stuff. And he said, "I didn't even pay attention when I checked out how much it was". He said, it wasn't until we were halfway home that one of his buddies had asked how much did you spend? And they looked at the receipt, and his buddy was like, "dude, you seriously spent $700 on fireworks". And my husband couldn't believe it. He didn't even think it was going to be that much money because he thought he was saving a whole bunch of money. So for us this was the first real money conversation that we actually had as a married couple. We had been married for almost a year. Our anniversary is July 24th. And so we had been married for almost a year at this point, and this is the first time that we really sat down and talked about money, because even though we knew one day we wanted to have kids, or one day we wanted to buy a house, we had no plans for any of that. And so, this situation kind of pushed us into actually having to sit down and have a conversation about money, and we started realizing, okay, if we don't come together and be a team on this, there's going to be more and more $700 expenses on random stuff that isn't important, because he certainly wasn't the only one spending money. He just happened to spend a lot of money at one time, versus where, our day to day lives, we were spending little increments of money here and there, without thinking about it. And I think that it really for us kind of showed us that it compounded on itself to this one big $700 purchase where we went into it with no plan to attack at all. So it was quite the interesting thing. And I forgave my husband, obviously, we've been married now for nine years. So I forgave him, and it's kind of become our epic story for our family, about my husband's $700 expense.

Bobbi Rebell:
So looking back, I guess it's about eight years later. What is the lesson for our listeners?

Jessi Fearon:
One, if you are married to a spender, always remember to give a grace, because a lot of times spenders don't recognize that they're spending so much money, because they believe that they're saving money because of the sale. And a lot times spenders are really good at finding the bargains. They really are great at that. And just like spenders always get upset with the saver, when they want to save a bunch of money and not spend it. And so for us it came down to finding that balancing act between being a saver and a spender, and having the honest money conversation where we decided together, okay, how much are we going to spend, how much are we going to save? What is the best of both worlds? And it came down to us writing down what our financial goals were, which was saving for a house, paying off debt, and saving an emergency fund. And all of that. So we were able to put those into the budget, but then we were also able to put in spending money for my husband to go and spend money because he still buys fireworks every 4th of July. And he still spends more than probably what most people would. But now it's a planned thing, and he just gets to carry cash. He has to leave the debit card at home, so he can't go crazy in the firework store anymore.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how much cash is he getting this year in 2018?

Jessi Fearon:
Like I said, it's still more than normal, what most people would spend, but it's $150 that he gets to buy whatever fireworks he wants. So then he can go blow them up all that he wants to.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Let's talk about your money tip, because you've gone over budget with things as well. Especially one of your pleasures, which is reading.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Oh my goodness. Yes. And like I said, my husband's definitely not the only one that's at fault. I had spent well over $250 in one year on Amazon buying books. And I kind of didn't even realize it because I think Prime makes it so easy. And so does Kindle, where your just buying books, and you see the deals, and you're like, oh my gosh, I wanted to read that book. So let me get that one. Oh, Amazon suggests this book. Okay. I like that one.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you were actually reading the books?

Jessi Fearon:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because sometimes people buy and they don't read.

Jessi Fearon:
No, I was definitely reading them, because I love, love to read. I read on average of about four book a month, sometimes more, sometimes less. But I just love to read. And here I was just buying all these books and reading, and reading, and getting excited about it. And then when I finally, I usually do, my husband and I will sit down every year and we kind of do a big annual spending review, where we literally look at how much we spent in every single category. And what we spent it on. And when I kinda sat down and realized just how much I had spent in one year on books, I was like, oh. This is my fireworks story, isn't it? I'm like, okay. we got to do something, and so I rediscovered the library. And that has kept me in check this past year so far. So it's been wonderful. I've been able to feed my guilty pleasure without a completely wrecking our budget this time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. All right. Tell us more about what you are up to. I know you've got some new courses on tap.

Jessi Fearon:
Yes. Right now I have a free five day money challenge. All about things that you can do for the next five days. It's only about 10 minutes, 10 minutes or less a day that you can do right now. These steps that will help you to be able to start managing your money better. It will get you started on the right path to taking control over your money, and to stop letting money control you, and start putting you at the helm of your finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. And where can people find out more about you and your blog?

Jessi Fearon:
They can find me at jessifearon.com, and on Instagram, twitter, and Facebook at Jesse Fearon. I'm constantly on Instagram trying to just share all the little snippets of our real life and all of its imperfect details. Everything for my husband working his side hustle here recently to buy a new boat motor, and our [inaudible 00:12:03] vacation that we go on for the cheap.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much and have a great 4th of July.

Jessi Fearon:
Well, thank you Bobbi. You too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay everyone, one thing that Jessi said really resonated when she talked about how a saver, like herself, can better understand a spender, and it has to do with the mindset of the spenders. Financial grownup tip number one. Jessi says, if you're married or in a relationship to a spender, always remember, give them grace. Many spenders are well intentioned, and go off track thinking in that moment when they're making the buying decision, that they're saving money. Seeing a two for one sale sets off a feeling of excitement. So many of us have fallen into buying more of an item than we intended because of the way the seller has priced it. They're smart, they know what they're doing. It sometimes is a better deal. In fact, never once did Jessi criticize the fact that the per firework price of what her husband bought wasn't a deal. He may have gotten good value. He just spent too much. She gets it. And I love her empathy and understanding. By figuring out the mindset of her husband, she was able to steer him on a healthier path and give him the tools. Okay, and also she gave him restricted cash on a budget this year, to resist the next great deal, rather than just screaming at him that he blew the budget.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Jessi also talks about the fact that this was the very first time the two of them had really sat down and intentionally talked about money. They didn't have kids yet, but they were newlyweds and they had no plan. So if you're in a relationship that involves shared financial resources, maybe have a little chat. If you are not already, please hit that subscribe button, and if you are listening on Apple Podcast or iTunes, please rate the podcast and leave a review. They really matter. Also, if you like the show, just tell a friend to check us out as well. And thanks to Jessi for giving us such a great Independence Day story. Let's all go out and celebrate with our friends and family. Maybe take Jessi's advice, and read a good book. Libraries are great. Also though, it's also nice to buy books on occasion, because we want to support our authors and value what they contribute as well. Authors need to make a living. So, it's a balance. Be sure to check out Real Life on a Budget and Jessi's great free course. I will leave links to both in the show notes. And thank you Jessi for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Author Cristina Alger wrote her first book, The Darlings as a side hustle while working 120 hours a week as a lawyer. When she ditched the day job to write full time, Cristina also walked away from the pricey perks.  But the author of The Bankers Wife, quickly found herself with the time to create better benefits for herself and her family. 

 

Cristina Alger is a lifelong New Yorker. A graduate of Harvard College and NYU Law School, she worked as a financial analyst and a corporate attorney before becoming a writer. Her third novel, THE BANKER'S WIFE, will be published on July 3 by Penguin Random House. She lives in New York with her husband and two children.

 

In Cristina’s money story you will learn: 

-How and why she came to work in finance after college even though she had been an English major and says she had no financial skills

-How and why she wrote the Darlings while working 120 hours a week as a corporate lawyer, often on the road

-How she got the book published

-How she had to adjust her budget and spending lifestyle when she left her corporate job to write fulltime

-Specific examples of the changes she made to lower her spending, but make up for it with time

In Cristina’s money lesson you will learn:

-How at her corporate job Cristina had to use money to make up for the lack of time she had

-How as a writer, Cristina now has time to make up for the lack of steady paycheck

-The specific current changes Cristina makes in her every day life to improve the quality of her family time and her overall lifestyle

In Cristina’s everyday money tip you will learn:

-How Cristina and her husband have disrupted the common advice to hire babysitters and go out in order to really have a date night as parents of young children

-Exactly what they do to protect the time, and to focus on each other, not distractions around their home

-Ideas for how you can create time in your life for special moments - without spending more money than you would like. 

-Other benefits from at-home date nights, including avoiding all the stress and to-do list of setting up the going-out date night!

About  how Cristina researched her book “The Bankers Wife”

-She learned about Geneva as a child visiting her uncle

-As an ex-pat she was fascinated by the glamorous and mysterious world of   swiss banking and offshore banking

-She is fascinated by the Panama Papers and used them for ideas. They were leaked while she was writing the book in the summer of 2016, 

-Another case that inspired her was that of whistelblower Bradley Birkenfeld, who exposed how UBS helped ultra-wealthy Americans commit billions in tax fraud.

-Birkenfeld went to prison for 30 months, but when he got out he got $104 million from the IRS as a whistleblowers fee!

In my take you will learn:

-How to find the time to do what you love, even if you feel like you are too busy

-How to determine if in fact you should not try to find the time- because ultimately it’s not that important to you, or not realistic during this phase of your life. 

-Ways to come to terms with your actual priorities not being what you think they SHOULD be. 

-The difference between side hustles for enjoyment, and side hustles for pay. 

-Ways to approach  and re-think the pressure from friends and family to have a formal ‘date night’ when you really do have other financial needs- or the planning of the date night is creating stress. 

 

EPISODE LINKS:

Learn more about Cristina Alger and her other books at her website:

CristinaAlger.com where you can also buy her book. 

Follow Cristina!

Facebook: @AuthorCristinaAlger

Instagram: cristina.alger

Twitter: CristinaAlger

Here are some great articles about the Panama Papers: 

International Consortium of Investigative Journalists

https://www.icij.org/investigations/panama-papers/

NY Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/06/us/panama-papers.html

The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/news/series/panama-papers

Wired: https://www.wired.com/2016/04/reporters-pulled-off-panama-papers-biggest-leak-whistleblower-history/

Here is more about Bradley Birkenfeld.

https://lucifersbanker.com! 

You can read more about him in his book: https://lucifersbanker.com/books/lucifers-banker/overview/

---

Transcription

Cristina Alger:
There was a salad place in basement of my loft apartment, we used to go everyday for lunch and you'd spend 30 dollars on a salad and kind of not think anything of it, and a lot of times we'd expense it to the firm and you can't do that anymore.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with my, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grown Up, but you know what, being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together, I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grown up, a lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, the glam life of an entrepreneur, you can work from the beach, but you also need to watch out for those 30 dollar a day salads because that expense account has sailed away. Welcome everyone, so glad you are here, we have a great guest today in novelist Cristina Alger, whose latest book the financial thriller, The Bankers Wife, kept me up all weekend, I could not put it down until the very last page and it was a good ending. The book is fiction but also very realistic, taking us into the secretive world of Swiss banking and chock full of villains, if you can figure out who exactly are the villains. You can really tell that in Cristina's background in banking and law as well as growing up in a family that worked in finance, gave her insights into this actually really crazy world that we haven't seen before in a novel, at least not that I'm aware of.

Bobbi Rebell:
This book takes you on quite the adventure. Alger wrote her first book, The Darlings, as a side hustle while working 120 hours a week, when she ditched the day job though to write full time Cristina also walked away from those pricey perks and she had to learn to be quite the financial grown up, you're going to love this story. Here is Cristina Alger. Hey Cristina Alger, you're a financial grown up, welcome to the podcast.

Cristina Alger:
Thank you, thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you so much for taking over my weekend, I spent the weekend reading your new book, I got a sneak peak at it, The Bankers Wife. We're going to talk more about it after your money story, but just high level, give us a little sneak peak?

Cristina Alger:
Well the bankers wife is a thriller and it's set sort of in Europe and New York and it's about a woman who is an ex pat, an American ex pat living in Geneva, and her husband is a private banker and he goes missing on a private plane, and she goes in search of him. It's really kind of a fun fast paced thriller that kind of takes you through the world of off shore banking.

Bobbi Rebell:
So we love that, a money thriller, and to get to the point where you are giving us this wonderful novel, and by the way it's your third novel, you had to leave your corporate job and become your own boss and that involved some big money decisions of your own. Nothing quite as dramatic as what goes on in The Bankers Wife, trust me, this book goes there, but lets hear about your life and your money story?

Cristina Alger:
Yeah, when I graduated in college, I was an English major, I had no actual marketable skills and I went to work at Goldman Sachs.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, let me just correct that, you must have had some skills to get a job at Goldman Sachs, but go on.

Cristina Alger:
Well I had no financial skills and I grew up in a family where both my mom and my father worked in finance, I had never taken economics, I had never taken accounting, my dad passed away when I was a senior in college.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm sorry.

Cristina Alger:
And I sort of realized that I had to start paying my own bills and so I decided to take the highest paying job I could get, which was a financial analyst at Goldman Sachs and they were one of the few banks that were hiring people out of undergrad who did not have a finance background, so I took that job and I sort of stuck with that through my 20's. I went to law school and when I came out of ... I became a corporate lawyer because I had spent these two years at Goldman Sachs learning how to be a financial analyst. So I spent about 10 years doing finance in sort of various roles and I wrote The Darlings really as a passion project, I wrote it while I was working as a lawyer and ...

Bobbi Rebell:
So let me just ... so it was a side hustle, was it intended to make money or just ... it was just a project?

Cristina Alger:
No, it was just a project, I never thought it would get published ... actually even intended for it to see the light of day. I sent it to a writer friend of mine who asked, so are you still writing, are you still working on sort of creative projects, and so I sent this to her and she sent it to her agent, and her agent called me and said I really like this, do you want to publish it. I thought oh wow, I don't know if I have the time to do that, so I sort of hemmed and hawed about it ...

Bobbi Rebell:
And the economics, I mean I don't know what the advance was but you're in a job that you've said you're in for the money and now I mean it's a first time novel, it might pay well but probably not the same?

Cristina Alger:
No, and it's funny, being a lawyer and being a novelist are complete opposites. I mean being a lawyer is such a consistent steady job, you know you're really paid salary, it's a salary based job, the bonuses are not huge, and it's just a very consistent job. You sort of stay there, you keep your head down, you work hard and you get paid very well and you have great benefits and it's a very conservative kind of risk averse job. Obviously being a writer is the exact opposite, you get paid in kind of these lump sums, you never know when you're going to get paid next, there are no benefits, so ... it's a huge transition.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how did you make that transition?

Cristina Alger:
So we took the book to auction, it actually did really well at auction and we sold it for a fairly large advance, but it was a big leap for me. It was really stressful, it was hard in the beginning to figure out how to be my own boss and how to kind of manage my budget given that I wasn't getting a consistent salary.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you do, what was it like?

Cristina Alger:
I set up a budget that would carry me through the next year and I really stuck to it. In fact, every month I was sort of coming under my budget because I was so scared that I would run out of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
So give us an example of something maybe that you would have done in your lawyer life financially and you weren't doing anymore as a novelist, year one?

Cristina Alger:
Okay, yeah. Well the first thing and the most obvious thing that I actually ... and this is the change that I will never go back, I stopped doing take out. I just stopped, I now cook lunch and dinner, I bring my lunch to work if I'm going somewhere. I mean New York is sort of dangerous because there's so many quick lunch options and dinner options around but it's expensive, it adds up. So there was this salad place in the basement of my loft apartment, we used to go every day for lunch and you'd spend 30 dollars on a salad and kind of not think anything of it. A lot of times we'd expense it to the firm and you can't do that anymore, so I had to get much more organized about doing meal planning and grocery shopping and ... but I also had more time, so I actually really enjoy cooking and that's something that my husband and I do a lot together and my kids and I now do it together. So it's been actually a really positive change, but we save a lot of money as a family by not really eating out very much.

Cristina Alger:
We almost never do take out, so that's one thing. Then another is that I don't take cabs anywhere, I was always in a rush when I was at my law firm and I was always traveling around the city. I literally can't remember the last time I took a cab, I walk everywhere, I take the subway, my kids love the bus, that's a huge cost savings. I also realized that I don't have to dry clean my clothes the way I did when I was a lawyer, when I was a lawyer I was wearing a suit every day and I would honestly throw things in the dry cleaning bin because I was just too lazy to think about it and ...

Bobbi Rebell:
And busy, you were working 120 hours a week.

Cristina Alger:
I know. Then you know, I was a lot more conscious about going out with friends at night and the money I was spending on entertainment and that kind of thing.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson then for our listeners, what's their take away from this?

Cristina Alger:
One of the thing that I realize is when you work these very intense corporate jobs, you're spending money to create time, and that goes away when you cease to have a job that takes over your whole life. So a lot of the things that I was spending money on I realized didn't actually bring me any joy, they were just ... I was spending money to save time. So I was paying for a housekeeper, I was paying for transportation as I said, I was paying for take out, and all these things really what I was buying was time because I was so busy that I couldn't ... I didn't have the time to go grocery shopping and sit out on a Sunday and plan out what I was going to eat for the whole week and when you get back some of that time and you reclaim that time, you can actually save a lot of money because you're not making decisions kind of on the fly based on what's the most convenient thing to do right then.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your everyday money tip because it's kind of along the same theme and it's really about date night with your husband.

Cristina Alger:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because now you're married, when The Darlings came along you were single, and when The Bankers Wife comes along now you are married.

Cristina Alger:
I am, I am, we have started doing date night at home and we cook a really nice elaborate dinner and we light candles, we set the table, and my husband brings me flowers, a date at home and it's really nice. Sometimes we'll watch a show or a movie on the couch and we'll drink wine and sort of do whatever we would do at a restaurant, but at home. We save money because it's just infinitely cheaper to eat at home but we also save on babysitting and sort of the mental gymnastics of getting a babysitter, so ... we just find it so much easier to be like okay, Thursday night we're doing it. It makes a big difference when you set the table and you use real silver wear and you're not sort of shoving food in your mouth because you have to put your kids down in the next 30 minutes.

Cristina Alger:
So we kind of make a production of it and it's nice, it's really romantic and my husband actually has now started to cook with me, which is fun. It's a fun different kind of date night so I highly recommend it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So lets talk about The Bankers Wife because I told you this beforehand, I chose to read this rather than watch The Handmaids Tale, which is basically huge, if anyone's every watched The Handmaids Tale, I could not put this book down. I read it in a day and a half, there's a lot of things that happen that at least I didn't see coming at all but make total sense in hindsight, you're like of course, but they don't make sense. Tell us about how you even came up with this idea, did you know about this world, did you know about things like this without getting to into the details, were you witness to this?

Cristina Alger:
I did, you know, I did because ... well I sort of have in two ways. One is the book is set in Geneva and my uncle actually lives in Geneva and so as a child we would spent a lot of time visiting him there and I always thought the ex pat world there was just so glamorous and it's sort of mysterious and ... I just thought it would always be a fabulous sort of setting for a novel. I became really fascinated with the Panama Papers Case, which is the data leak that came out of a Panamanian law firm that did a lot of business with these off shore banks. In the summer of 2016 when I was writing this book the Panama papers had just leaked out and they were all over the news and I'm sort of a nerdy financial news junky, and I just couldn't get enough of this case.

Cristina Alger:
I thought it was so fascinating that someone from inside this law firm had leaked all this really confidential information and it occurred to me that there was this whole world of banking that exists completely outside any sort of regulatory body and it's ... for the ultra rich and it's all operated in kind of numbered bank accounts, and no one knows who owns the numbered bank accounts and it's super shady. It amazed me that there's trillions of dollars in this sort of off shore banking system that exists and all the different people that can be involved, there are drug cartels that store their money, there's Presidents, there are all kinds of people. There was another case I did a lot of research on and it's this man named Bradley Burkenfeld who is an American private banker at UBS, United Bank of Switzerland, and he was a whistleblower.

Cristina Alger:
He ended up ... this is such a crazy story. He knew what he was doing, you know, that he was helping a lot of people evade taxes by having Americans bank at UBS and he knew what he was doing was illegal and he sort of saw the writing on the wall and he ended up becoming a whistleblower for the IRS, and he gave over a lot of confidential information from inside the bank to the DOJ and the IRS. They ended up prosecuting him anyway, so he went to jail.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh, really?

Cristina Alger:
Yes, for aiding and embedding, tax evasion, and then he walks out of prison and the IRS awards him I think 114 million dollars because ...

Bobbi Rebell:
The finders fee.

Cristina Alger:
Whistleblower, yes. So it's a totally insane story.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well I think you have another best seller on your hands, so congratulations.

Cristina Alger:
Thank you so much, that's so kind.

Bobbi Rebell:
And where can people find out more about you?

Cristina Alger:
Well you can always go to my website, so it's Cristinaalger.com, it's Cristinaalger.com, and also on Penguin Random House they have pages on all the different authors and the books available on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, so ...

Bobbi Rebell:
And to follow you on all your social channels.

Cristina Alger:
Yes, definitely, I'm all over the place.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you Cristina.

Cristina Alger:
No, thank you, it was such a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I'm still kind of trying to process how Cristina found the time to write while working 120 hours a week, but therein lies the takeaway, financial grown up tip number 1, if you want to do something you love you will find the time because you won't be able to stop yourself. Notice I didn't say it will necessarily pay, separate topics, whether that project will pay, but Cristina wrote her first book as a way to relax and cope with the stress of her job. As it happens, the book was also really good and she was able to turn it into a profitable project, but that has nothing to do with the fact that she was finding the time while working 120 hours a week. So the next time you feel you don't have time for a project, just think about Cristina and finding those pockets of time in that crazy week. If it feels like it's a chore and you're struggling, maybe it's okay to decide not to do it and do other things or maybe you don't time for anything else, that's okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
So rather than beat yourself up and feel bad about it, just say in this phase of my life I'm not going to do it because I don't have the time and it's not giving me enough joy that I'm going to find a way to make the time, it's okay. Financial grown up tip number 2, we get so many messages these days that we need to build in that date night with our significant other and commit money so that it sticks. When my husband and I had our son, we were told pre-schedule a baby sitter every Saturday night so we were forced to have a date night because things come up otherwise, this way we put money on it, we were going. I have to tell you, paying someone money to sit in our house watching TV while our son slept so we could go to a restaurant, maybe spend money on a taxi to get there, to spend more money for the meal then.

Bobbi Rebell:
It doesn't always work for everyone and sometimes the idea that you're spending all this money puts a lot of pressure on you. Also maybe the money just isn't there for that, maybe your priority is saving for something else, maybe it's paying down debt, maybe that's where your priority is right now and you can make ... and it was great that Cristina pointed this out, you can make a date night at home. Yes, it is absolutely easier to blow off if you haven't made this commitment, but Cristina's example really was telling. The little things are important, her husbands bringing her flowers, they really set the table, that makes a difference. I'm going to try it, maybe you guys can too.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you are enjoying the promos and want one for yourself or your business, follow me on social media and share them, I'm going to be choosing a winner soon and it could be you to get a promo made for you or your business. I am on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram and BobbiRebell1 and on Facebook my author page is @BobbiRebell. Also, love it when you guys DM me and share your thoughts on the show and also suggest guests that you would like to see on Financial Grown Up. Everyone, go out and get Cristina Alger's new book, The Bankers Wife, it is the perfect summer read and thank you Cristina for sharing all your money saving tips and advice and experiences and helping us all get one step closer to being financial grown ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

TV and theater producer Jenna Segal had a dramatic financial shock as a child. Now as a financial grownup, Jenna takes her cue from that experience to make sure the creative ambition of her productions is in line with financial realities. 

In Jenna’s money story you will learn:

-How Jenna had to adjust her life growing up when her parents financial situation experienced a big change

-The impact big changes in the U.S. economy and the fashion industry had on her family

-How Jenna managed multiple income streams and side hustles as a teen

-Why the happy birthday song at Bennigans shares a special place in Jenna’s heart

-The specific strategies Jenna used to balance her schoolwork with her many jobs and internships

-How Jenna leveraged her background watching the numbers to move into her career as a broadway, tv and film producer

-The factors Jenna takes into consideration when putting together a production to balance creativity with financial responsibility

-Why we are talking about my cousin Robin and coding

In Jenna’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to take life experiences and translate them into skills for your career

-How to balance desire for creativity in any project, with the financial realities

-How to actually use creativity on projects as a solution to budget challenges

In Jenna’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Why Jenna always has $2,000 available for emergencies

-The strategy she used to manage living paycheck to paycheck in one of her first jobs

In my take you will learn:

-The difference between an emergency fund and a get out of town fund

-What to do if you do not have the resources the fund an emergency fund in the near term

Episode Links

Look for new information coming soon about Jenna’s projects including the plan she is producing fall 2018 at her website SegalNYC.com

Learn about Jenna’s new content projects aimed at women- and get on the newsletter at gatherertv.com

Read more about Jenna Segal!

Wall Street Journal: https://www.wsj.com/articles/gigi-back-on-broadway-thanks-to-jenna-segal-a-rookie-producer-1426785748

Playbill: http://www.playbill.com/person/jenna-segal-vault-0000125916

Follow Jenna!!

Twitter @JennaKatzSegal

Instagram @JennaSegal

Facebook: JKSegal

---

Transcription

Jenna Segal:
She'd throw me the codes for the budgets and I would be able to look at each bill and really get to understand what it was costing for the networks to do what they were doing. That's what gave me the ability to do the job that I wound up getting at MTV, because I understood the cost of production and how to move money around, how to budget, figure out how to make a projection work on the amount of money that we had to work with.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, that was film, TV and theater producer, Jenna Segal talking show business number crunching. Welcome everyone to the show, if you have not already, please hit that subscribe button so you don't miss any upcoming episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you are new to the show, great to have you. As our returning listeners know, we keep the episodes short because we know you're busy. About 15 minutes, just give you a story, little context, something to think about, a take away, and an everyday money tip.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course, if you have more time, listen to a few episodes. All right, let's get back to today's money story. Jenna Segal's long list of productions include, Gigi on Broadway starring Vanessa Hudgens, the recent revival of Les Liaisons Dangereuses, hope I said that correctly, as well as the off Broadway show, What We're Up Against.

Bobbi Rebell:
She has also had stints at Viacom including MTV and Nickelodeon, as well as in news. Places like CNN and CNBC, whereas you will here, she worked for my cousin Robin. Hey Robin.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, no matter how fabulous this show is, you're going to learn from Jenna, there is still math and a lot of people that have to get paid. If you can't crunch the numbers, the show does not go on. Jenna Segal got her ambition early on and it amped up, when as a teen her family had some big financial drama.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now her career, still has drama just also comedy, mystery, love stories and all that showbiz stuff. Here is Jenna Segal.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jenna Segal, you're our financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Jenna Segal:
Hey Bobbi, how are you? It's so exciting to be on.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am excited to have you because you have so many interesting projects. You are the head of Segal NYC which is Broadway Production company, you're also a TV producer and you've got a number of projects going on right now. I have convinced you to give us a little sneak peak on one project, tell us a little about that very famous person you're working on a project about.

Jenna Segal:
Yes, I'm so excited. I am working with Daryl Roth on a brand new play called Gloria. Which is about the one and only Gloria Steinem. It is going to be at the Daryl Roth theater downtown in New York City in the fall.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very cool. I want to hear more about some other projects you're working on but first let's do your money story. It is something that unfortunately many people can relate to and that is when a parent loses a job. You were just 16, tell us what happened.

Jenna Segal:
When I was 16, I grew up in New Jersey and just kind of a regular existence. My dad had a great job working in the fashion industry and the whole industry, much like today, went through a major transition. The entire industry of the middle man started falling apart because Target and Walmart were doing networking, going directly to factories all around the world to find people to manufacture their goods.

Jenna Segal:
Financially for our family it was just a major, major change.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what did that mean for you? What was the changes for you?

Jenna Segal:
Well it just meant that money wasn't coming easily anymore. And at a certain point, it also meant that my college education wasn't as secure as I had thought. I wasn't getting a car when I turned 17, I was sharing a car with my dad where I would drop him off so he could go into New York City. And I would pick him up at the end of the day.

Jenna Segal:
But it especially meant that I went out and I had always loved working but started, instead of doing you know one job that was babysitting after school, I went out and got three jobs. So I worked on the weekends at the local bagel store where I'd get there at five o'clock in the morning and Saturdays and Sundays I would talk to the first people in at five and make their bagels and go through the soccer lines and everything else.

Jenna Segal:
Making sure everyone got what they needed and then I would hostess at night at Finnegan's which was a-

Bobbi Rebell:
I loved Finnegan's.

Jenna Segal:
Of course. I still know the Happy Birthday song.

Bobbi Rebell:
I also grew up in New Jersey of course though.

Jenna Segal:
Yes totally. And I was able to do obvioulsy similar things there. And I also worked at Little Ceaser's when it first opened until I just couldn't take it anymore because I smelled so much like pizza. And I was a nanny after school for a single mother, not my Freshman year of college but starting my Sophomore year of college, I continued really doing that as well.

Jenna Segal:
Trying to take all of my classes in two days and then I started working at CNN five days a week. At first for an unpaid internship and then hostessing at night. But it really was a wonderful experience because it changed how I viewed being able to support myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
So now you're a Broadway producer. Having this background with the needing to earn money in that kind of situation, do you look at budget items differently, would you spend differently?

Jenna Segal:
Oh totally. When I look at Broadway, every single aspect of what you're doing has to relate to the return. And then it has to relate to the artistic integrity of the piece that you're doing. I would say even at MTV, where I started in the 90s in Los Angeles, it was always about taking whatever the budget was, being able to respect the artistic integrity of the director or the writer. And make sure to get them what they wanted visually but how to do that within the parameters of what financially needed to be achieved.

Jenna Segal:
And that's always a really huge challenge I think for many people who get out of film school and budgeting is generally not significantly taught there. And I have always felt that for creative people, having that ability to understand the parameters around a budget, especially for large corporations who have real risk assessment needs.

Jenna Segal:
And cannot just go out and shoot without permits and know that they're not going to majorly get in trouble or use music that hasn't been cleared. And just take the risk that they're not going to pay for it or have somebody come in and not have insurance for those people to make sure that if they get hurt, they don't take the risk and have that actor or that camera person or the audio person not have backup. So that if they get hurt, you're able to financially take care of them and not wind up getting sued and having it put you into major financial jeopardy as an independent producer.

Jenna Segal:
All of those things are what I'm thinking about all the time.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's a lot of economics behind the scenes, I mean pun intended.

Jenna Segal:
Yes, 100 percent. I started in political talk shows in Washington D.C. with actually, I completely forgot about this, your cousin Robin [inaudible 00:08:06].

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, hey Robin.

Jenna Segal:
The absolute best producers I have ever worked with, incredibly smart. But Robin loved the creative and she hated the financial piece. And the best thing that Robin ever did for me and my production career and I credit her for this all the time. Is that Robin threw the bills at me. And she said, "You deal with this. You code it."

Jenna Segal:
And coding is, in the networks or really in any company that you work for, it's a way of accounting for each individual expenditure you have so that when they put it through the massively gigantic books in the big picture, they're able to understand what they're spending on everything.

Jenna Segal:
And so she'd throw me the codes for the budgets and I would be able to look at each bill and really get to understand what it was costing for the networks to do what they were doing. That's what gave me to the ability to do the job that I wound up getting at MTV in its heyday.

Jenna Segal:
Because I understood the costs of production and how to move money around, how to budget, how to figure out how to make a production work on the amount of money that we had to work with.

Jenna Segal:
(Music)

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from this?

Jenna Segal:
I think the most important lesson is to make sure to key into where you're real financial acumen is. And that could come from any kind of experience in your life. See why that moment resonated for you and how you can move that moment forward for what you're doing at work or what you're doing in your home.

Jenna Segal:
Look at your finances and figure out how you can make happen what you want to make happen, even if you have a minimal amount of money to do it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And even if you're in a creative field, I mean one thing that I notice is that you know, even the creative people need to understand the economics behind that creation.

Jenna Segal:
Oh 100 percent. And what I like to say is that I, what my real skill set wound being is that I am an excellent translator. Through my experiences, I was able to understand financial people and understand what they were getting at and why they were getting at why you could or couldn't spend money on something.

Jenna Segal:
And I was able to talk to creative people and explain to them why we did or didn't have the money to do what they wanted to do but how we could creatively come up with a solution for how to get what they wanted in a different way within the money that we had. And I think that lacking often creates the best creativity for how to find creative ways out of a situation.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right so Jenna, what is your money tip?

Jenna Segal:
Pick a number and create an emergency fund. When I was leaving Washington or decided I wanted to leave for Washington to move out to LA to begin working outside of political talk shows, I worked in a job where I only got paid once a month. And it really taught me how to budget wisely over the course of the month because of course I was living paycheck to paycheck.

Jenna Segal:
Knowing that I was going to get money at the end of the month, it made me think about how I could save to get to the 2000 dollars that I thought that I needed to get out to LA. And ever since then, I always make sure to have 2000 dollars in the bank at all times as my getaway car so to speak.

Jenna Segal:
Because I always feel that as long as I have that 2000 dollars in the bank, I can just change and-

Bobbi Rebell:
Get somewhere, right. So it's not a traditional emergency fund where if you lost your income source, you would have six months to live on. It's a get out-of-town fund, basically.

Jenna Segal:
It's a get out, yes exactly. Which is why I call it an emergency fund. It's not-

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly, but it's not, I don't want our regular listeners to be confused with these same kind of emergency fund that's like for if you're in dire straights, this is your get out of town.

Jenna Segal:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Like yeah. Literally like quick cash fund.

Jenna Segal:
Literally I need to change my life tomorrow, I have this money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Well you have a great life right now because you have so many amazing projects going on. Tell us what's going on with Segal NYC and you have another big thing that's happening the fall of 2018, I think.

Jenna Segal:
Yes. With Segal NYC, we're going to be producing the fall, Gloria as I mentioned. And then other projects that are brewing in the background and then I have also started with a partner, Gatherer Entertainment which is going to be a digital network for women. And we have a really fun newsletter at Gatherer TV dot com. If you're interested.

Jenna Segal:
But it's all really exciting and there is not-

Bobbi Rebell:
What kinds of projects are you going to have?

Jenna Segal:
On Gatherer, it's going to be everything from unscripted shows to scripted but all in the original stuff that we're going to be doing is all going to be in shorter form. And we're working with really talented writers, some with names you know and some who don't. Focusing on women, the world that women live in right now.

Jenna Segal:
And really things that are going to be instrumental to them in their lives that aren't necessarily being talked about.

Bobbi Rebell:
That sounds mysterious. All right I can't wait.

Jenna Segal:
I think it's unveiling the mysteries.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was a good tease, Jenna, good job. All right, where can people learn more about you and about Segal NYC and Gatherer and so on?

Jenna Segal:
Sure so Segal NYC, it is Segal NYC dot com, Gatherer is Gatherer TV dot com. And then I am on Twitter at JennaKatzSegal and Facebook and Instagram. Although I don't use Instagram as much. I know I really have to get on it but I just haven't gotten there yet.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well I think you'll get there and you have great things happening and coming so thank you Jenna Segal.

Jenna Segal:
Thank you so much. It was so good talking to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
(Music)

Bobbi Rebell:
Such a fun interview, can't wait to go see Jenna and Daryl Roth's Gloria production in the fall.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one, Jenna worked as a teen in multiple jobs because she had to. But it's also often a great learning experience for teens to work just because they get exposed to the universal basics of being an employee. Show up on time, be reliable, follow directions, all that stuff.

Bobbi Rebell:
It can also motivate teens not just to work hard, but also smart. And to have the best career that they can. I know having to memorize the price of every baked good at the Wycoff Bakery in New Jersey as a teen definitely motivated me. And I know my future in food service.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, emergency fund. So Jenna talked about having 2000 dollars as an emergency fund. We then, renamed it the get out-of-town fund. She basically was talking about money to buy a plane ticket and have a little spending money if you got to go. But as we also mentioned, everyone actually also needs what we traditionally call an emergency fund in case your income stops for some reason.

Bobbi Rebell:
So in a perfect world, it would be about six months, more or less depending on if you are a single person, then you might need a little more. If you have double income, you might need less because the odds of losing both incomes at once are lower.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now if that is not a reality right now and it's not for a lot of people, let's be honest about it, if you don't have it, here is a plan B. See if you can at least get a line of credit that could be available to you. The catch is, you need to get the line of the credit ahead of time, as in now when you don't need it. If you're not using it and you don't take money out, you're not paying any interest so it's okay.

Bobbi Rebell:
But then you have it so you can tap into that money if you do have an emergency at much lower rates than say a credit card. And that's really important because right now we are in a rising rate environment.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for joining us for another great Financial Grownup Podcast episode. To stay up to date on episodes and also catch our fun promo videos, follow me on social media. At bobbierebell on Twitter, at bobbirebell1 on Instagram, my page on Facebook is Bobbi Rebell. And I'm also working on that YouTube page so check it out and please subscribe, I would love your support.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jenna's start continues to rise in large part because she keeps a nice balance between the show and the business, so thank you Jenna for sharing with us and helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
(Music)

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

Invested author and podcast host Danielle Town talks candidly about her sometimes painful family money history and how she and her dad healed their relationship, and eventually teamed up to educate others about money and investing. 

Danielle's money story:

Danielle Town:
Yeah, when I was about 11 my parents split up. My dad is an investor, he's very well known. My mom was a stay at home homemaker. Mom, they split up, and often when people do that the money is a huge issue. The money was a huge issue for us. They went into a major divorce war. My dad left and he took the money with him. You know, as an adult now I can kind of see what happened there, but at the time I had no clue. I just knew that my dad was gone, and that we had to leave our house, and my mom had to go get a job. Everything changed. We had no money except for necessities.

Danielle Town:
It really affected me and I didn't really understand how much until I started doing ... My dad, just to close that loop. My dad came back, they ended up working things out without lawyers actually, and have now a very good relationship.

Bobbi Rebell:
How long was that period though when things were in disarray?

Danielle Town:
It was a couple years. It was pretty bad for a while.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what did your mom do just to fill in the blank there? She was a homemaker, what did she end up doing for those few years?

Danielle Town:
Well, she was a trained teacher so she went back to teaching fifth grade in the school that we were at actually. You know, she had a skill and she was able to go and do that, but it was just a huge change for us, and she's now a school psychologist, and went back to school, and is doing incredibly well, so she's fantastic. And my dad and I obviously repaired our relationship, but we never talked about money stuff ever. It wasn't until I was in my early thirties, I was a corporate lawyer, and I was starting to make a little bit of money, and I thought, oh, my gosh, what do I do? And I did not want to talk to my dad at all, but I finally ... He was the only person I knew to ask, so I finally turned to him, I said, "What do I do?" And he said, "You have to learn how to invest," which was exactly what I knew he was going to say, and I wanted to avoid it so much, but through various pressures. I was ill, I was exhausted, and I needed to find a way to not be dependent on my salary, and he was the only person I could talk to about that, so we started our podcast together. I started learning about investing, and you can literally hear my entire journey from beginning to now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, yeah. You're very candid on the podcast, which I love also. You mentioned that during the time that this was happening you didn't understand that much, but looking back you do see more of what was going on. Can you share a little bit about that from a financial and emotional perspective?

Danielle Town:
Exactly. I think we avoid so much money pain. I mean, money is different then anything else. Money is so much emotionally about our worth. It's about our worth to our family members, what we can actually bring home to help them financially. It's about our worth at work, what we're actually paid in salary. It's about our worth to our communities, how much can we devote to charity? How much can we support the people around us? I mean, money is intimately intertwined with how we feel and our emotions, and I think we need much more emotional vulnerability around money. I'm actually doing a Ted Talk about this in about a month, at the beginning of July, and it's such an important thing that we need to get going with because if we can change this avoidance that I felt, and that so many of us feel, we are going to be so much more powerful with an instrument that we are not using at all right now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you feel that you, or have you talked to your mom about what was in her mind going on at the time that she had been a homemaker, and suddenly she had to pay attention to money in a different way?

Danielle Town:
Oh, that's a good question, Bobbi. It's tough with. I mean, I don't want to bring my mom into it too much because she didn't ask to be put into this story publicly, but she does very well for herself now, and we have never really talked about that money stuff. It's painful and when we touch on it the pain is very much still there. No, we don't talk about it too much.

Danielle’s money lesson:

Danielle Town:
Yeah, exactly. I think the takeaway is we all grew up in some way with a relationship with money, and we were taught a certain relationship with money. We tend not to think about it too much because without a real perspective on what happened it's just how it is. I mean, there's not much thought about it. I grew up X way, and I kind of assume everybody else did too. I mean, I've had people say to me, like the second I start talking about this with people they know what their money story is. And I've had people say to me stuff like, "Oh, yeah, I was never given anything by my parents except for the bare necessities, so I started working when I was 13 years old, and now I have had a job, I have my own business, and I don't know who I am without working." A woman said that to me recently.

Bobbi Rebell:
Huh?

Danielle Town:
And she had clearly had never put that together, but as soon as I brought it up, as soon as I shared my story she knew hers immediately. It was right there. It's something about that where we need that little tiny push, but as soon as it's there those emotions come right up, and for me it was starting to work with investing, starting to work with financial markets, trying to learn this stuff, which was really difficult for me, and just not quite being able to get there. And it wasn't until I understood just by searching within myself that it was because I didn't fully trust my dad around money, and my dad was the guy teaching me now about money, and about investing that I even confronted that part of me.

Danielle Town:
I mean, if you had asked me a few years ago, I would have said, "Oh, I have no problems with money at all. I'm all super comfortable. It's all fine. Like [inaudible 00:10:15]." And it turns out none of that was true. I actually had a lot to deal with and it was incredibly painful. It's not until we're pushed that we're gonna get into that stuff. I mean, you just asked me if I speak to my mom about this stuff. There's no push to get into that with her, and for many of there is no push. And so until we start realizing that those things are holding us back, and we push ourselves we're not going to take that power back.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. That was very intense. No, but very thoughtful and a lot for all of us to think about. Our emotions and money, and being honest about our money story, and coming to terms with it.

Danielle's everyday money tip:

Danielle Town:
I have two. First of all this is what changed everything for me with my investing, I started to look around and look at what I was buying with my consumer dollars, and I discovered that I interact with products and services all the time every day in my house, in my work, in my daily life that are owned by public companies. And as soon as I discovered that, I realized that the same way I feel about consumer dollars, I can feel about money that I put into investing that I put into public companies, and that that money actually has a much great power than I give to it in my investing bank account.

Danielle Town:
What that means is like I have my Apple iPhone next to me. Okay, so I know nothing about investing. I know about the financial markets. I can go research Apple just by Googling it, just by looking online, and discover some stuff about Apple as a company, rather than as just a consumer product that I use, and that's how I started to get really interested in investing, and start to see it kind of makes the vision look a little more 3D. You start to see companies all over the place. Carpet companies, and book companies, and phone companies, and computer companies. It's crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Everything comes from somewhere.

Danielle Town:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that goes to your whole philosophy with Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger, it's all about investing in things that you know.

Danielle Town:
Invest in things you know, and let's put our values where our money is going. Let's put our money into companies that are doing great things in the world that we support. Just like we do, or we try to do with our consumer dollars right now.

Danielle Town:
My second tip 'cause you said I have two, the second one is very simple, just read the financial news in the morning, read the business news, and you don't have to read the boring stuff. I skip the boring stuff. I read the stuff that just looks interesting. I give myself a good baseline, a good perspective on what's going on, on stuff that's cool, and fun, and interesting to find out about, and that's it. It doesn't have to be hard. It doesn't have to be filled with pressure. It's just simple. Just learn, just read, just understand going forward. And it starts to build on itself, and that 3D vision starts to happen. It's pretty cool when it happens and it happens really naturally.

Financial GrownUp Tip number one:

Whenever you get FOMO, aka fear of missing out, or you feel a little envy about somebody whose life looks perfect, think about Danielle. She is successful, happily married, living what from all accounts looks like a great life, but the truth is her life has been far from perfect. She has had struggles. We all do, but think about what she came back from, and what she built, and the amazing life that she has now. It reminds me a lot of what Tony Robbins talks about, that you just have to just decide, decide to take control of your life, don't be a victim. On the surface she is the child of Phil Town, uber successful investor, but yet you heard the story, things were not always perfect growing up.

Financial GrownUp Tip number two:

If you want to be a better investor, follow Danielle's advice and educate yourself. As Danielle said it can be as simple as keeping up with the financial news. If you want to learn the basics of investing, Danielle's book with her father, and their podcast are great resources. They make it super easy. Also, there are countless websites that can teach you the basics, and also keep you up to speed on the latest news. Some of my favorites are Investopedia, which also has a whole Investopedia Academy. The Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times, and of course my former employers, CNBC. CNN, which has CNN Money now, and Reuters. There's also news aggregators that can make your life easy by pulling together the top headlines like Google Finance, Yahoo Finance, and SeekingAlpha.

Episode Links

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Listen to Danielle’s Ted Talk!!! 

Danielle’s website: www.DanielleTown.com

Listen to her podcast with her dad Phil Town:  Invested and on iTunes here 

Get Phil and Danielle Town’s book Invested! 

Some ideas to get started learning more about investing:

• Investopedia

• CNBC

• CNN Money

• Reuters

• GoogleFinance

• Yahoo Finance

• Seeking Alpha

Follow Danielle!

• Twitter: @danielle_town

• Instagram: @danielletown

• Facebook: @DanielleTownInvested

---

When journalist Vera Gibbons launched nonpoliticalnews.com she had lots of former colleagues and friends telling her she needed to spend money on all kinds of costs, but after making a few missteps, the entrepreneur learned to prioritize and keep her costs in check while she built a strong foundation. 

 

In Vera’s money story you will learn:

-What inspired Vera to start her website and newsletter nonpoliticalnews.com 

-How she was approached about hiring many people to help her, but at a cost, despite the fact that her business was not yet earning money

-Vera’s choices about where to spend her resources in the early days of her venture

-Where she regretted spending money, and where she felt her money was best allocated.

-Vera’s revenue model

 

In Vera’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to evaluate what expenses to take on in the startup phase of a business

-How to prioritize your business needs versus wants

-The legal issues you need to pay attention to when starting a business

 

In Vera’s every day money tip you will learn:

-Why we all need to be paying close attention to interest rates

-How to identify the interest rates in your life that could be going up

-How to negotiate to get your rates lower

 

In my take you will learn:

-How to put your friends “advice’ in context when starting any new venture

-How the upward movement in interest rates can be both a positive and a negative. 

 

Episode Links

Vera’s website: nonpoliticalnews.com

Twitter @nopodaily

Facebook Non political News

Instagram @nonpoliticalnews

Resources to learn more about interest rates and why they are going up: 

 

The Fed: https://www.federalreserve.gov/

Investopedia: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/interestrate.asp

Business Insider: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-the-fed-raises-interest-rates-2017-12

Kiplinger https://www.kiplinger.com/article/business/T019-C000-S010-interest-rate-forecast.html

Marketwatch: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/rising-interest-rates-give-retirees-good-news-and-bad-news-2018-06-20

To win one of the promo video’s you see- be sure to share them on social media when you see them on my feeds!

Twitter @bobbirebell

Instagram @bobbirebell1

Facebook: Bobbi Rebell

Want to share your money story? Write to us and tell us about it at info@financialgrownup.com

---

Transcription

Vera Gibbons:
They said "We'll do 20 videos for $20,000. You should do a podcast, your website needs to be revised, I'll do it for $15,000." I'm a startup, and I have no income, and I have no revenue, how am I going to pay for any of this?

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. We talk a lot about living within our means, and ideally below our means, when we talk about personal finance. But the truth is, that also applies in business, especially with startup businesses that are as they say pre-revenue. Before we get to our guest, I just want to welcome our new listeners, and of course welcome back our regulars, we keep the show on the shorter side around 15 minutes, so you can fit it into your busy day. But of course, feel free to binge on a few episodes if you've got half an hour, two episodes, and so on. The idea is that we share money stories that are going to give us something to think about that may relay to our personal lives, maybe our careers and business lives, which these days are blending together more and more. We also do everyday money tips, because we want you to have more money.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, I guess Vera Gibbons spent years as a Consumer Journalist before starting her website, Non Political News, aka NoPo. When she did, everybody wanted to help her out and have their hand out. Here is Vera Gibbons. Hey, Vera Gibbons, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Vera Gibbons:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to be your guest.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your new website, Non Political News, something we all need a little bit of.

Vera Gibbons:
It is a labor of love. I started it a couple of years ago, and it's really been growing like gangbusters. All the news is non political, and then we have some fun stuff and some stuff that is just frivolous and interesting. It's resonating, people really seem to like it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to hear more about it, but first I want to get to your money story, because it has to do with being an entrepreneur and starting a business, and the fact that sometimes we take on costs that we should not. Tell us more.

Vera Gibbons:
That is a big problem. All my life, as you know, I've been bouncing around on different TV shows, doing personal financing consumer segments. Then I started NonPoliticalNews.com, so the big money story is it's expensive to be your own boss. This is probably why people don't do it. There are legal costs, there are marketing costs, and they add up, and they add up very, very quickly, as I quickly found.

Bobbi Rebell:
People tell you that you need to do this, you need to do that.

Vera Gibbons:
It never ends. When I first started NonPoliticalNews.com I had people approach me from NBC, where I used to work, and they we're saying "Oh, do you want me to do some videos for you?" They said "We'll do 20 videos for $20,000. You should do a podcast. Your website needs to be revised. I'll do it for $15,000." I mean-

Bobbi Rebell:
Those are big numbers.

Vera Gibbons:
Big.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because your revenue was what at this point?

Vera Gibbons:
Zip.

Bobbi Rebell:
Zero. Zero revenue and these people are hitting you up.

Vera Gibbons:
They wanted to do all sorts of stuff and they weren't taking me and my personal situation under consideration at all. I'm like "Hey, I'm a startup, I have no income. I have no revenue. How am I going to pay for any of this?" People were telling me "You should bring on people to work for you. You should hire someone to do the marketing." I hired one person to help me with email problems, with the delivery of our email. We use MailChimp, as everybody does, because I'm a newsletter business pretty much. The email goes out every single morning at 7:00 into your inbox. Occasionally, some people weren't getting the email, or it was showing up late, or it was bouncing back. So I had to bring in somebody to help me with that. But at the time I was thinking "I just got to make sure this email gets out to my subscribers every single morning, and it's consistent in the delivery." So that was a priority.

Vera Gibbons:
Now we had another priority that literally landed on my desk, which was we had a trademark problem, I had trademarked NonPoliticalNews.com, and somebody was infringing on our trademark. That was a big legal cost that I had to undertake for obvious reasons, we couldn't have this happen. We had to do a cease and desist, and [inaudible 00:04:42] people out, and then we ended up buying their domain. It was a big ordeal. It also held up the marketing side of things too, because I was like "Well, I can't really continue with using the name Non Political News or NoPo News as call it if somebody else has that name." People are confused with where they're going, and they're being miscorrected. That was a big unfortunate legal battle that we had to undertake, and that was an expensive one.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did this all evolve to where you are now in terms of your ongoing expenses, your payroll basically?

Vera Gibbons:
I did make a compromise with videos. They had wanted me to do like 20 videos for $20,000. I worked out a deal with them where I did a couple just to test the waters for a couple thousand dollars. In the end, that was a financial mistake actually, because the videos did not do all that well, they weren't generating the kind of traffic or interest we wanted. I had actually found a couple of typos in one of the videos before it went out. I'm like "What am I paying for all this for?" That was a mistake. Thankfully it wasn't that big of financial a mistake, it was just a couple thousand dollars, the cost of doing business.

Vera Gibbons:
I also had a lot of people who approached me and wanted to help me with the social media. That's still a work in progress, because I'm not very good at social media, and I don't really like it. But at some point, I'm probably going to have to hire somebody to do that, because I know now that in order to get your product out there, and to get the word out there about your product, you need to have someone pretty aggressively promoting it on Instagram, and Twitter, and Facebook. I've been not very good about that quite honestly. The bulk of the money has gone toward my website guy, he redid the website, it looks pretty good now, it's a little flashier, it's a little more user friendly. My marketing, he's just a part-time marketing guy, he's on a retainer. He does help me with Facebook promotions, and a little bit of social media. We occasionally do free giveaways via NonPoliticalNews.com, where we partner up with various entities, and we provide something for our subscribers. He's been helping me with some of those promotions.

Vera Gibbons:
Those can be costly too depending on how you market them on Facebook. Facebook has changed all the algorithms now, so it's a little trickier than it used to be perhaps, but that has been primarily where I've been spending the money.

Bobbi Rebell:
What's the revenue model?

Vera Gibbons:
The revenue model is, at some point we're going to be doing sponsored segments. We do have, the way it's organized now is we have different categories. We have consumer/personal finance, health and wellness, fashion/beauty and fitness and diet. Every day into the night, and early morning, I curate the news within those categories. At some point soon, we're going to partner up with influential people within each of the respective categories, and we're going to tap into their followers and see if it ... to catch on with Non Political News.

Bobbi Rebell:
Vera, what is your money lesson from that story? Taking on all of those expenses, some you didn't take on, some you did and regret.

Vera Gibbons:
I guess the lesson is, do what is absolutely necessary at the time, and hold off on the other things until that becomes a complete necessity. For me, the necessity is we're dealing with email delivery problems, obviously you want to make sure-

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because if people aren't getting their daily emails, you have no business.

Vera Gibbons:
Exactly. That was a hot fire I had to put up immediately. Then the other issue was this legal issue, we had someone infringing on our trademark, and that was another hot issue that had to be taken care of immediately. The other stuff could wait, and some of it is still waiting. It's just been a work in a progress.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about an everyday money tip, because you're in the news business, you know what's going on, and that gave you an idea for something people need to be paying a lot of attention to, maybe more than they think.

Vera Gibbons:
Check your interest rates, guys. A lot of people do not even know what their interest rate actually is. We are in a rising interest rate environment, you really need to know where you stand on that front, because your costs are going to get more expensive, you probably, maybe, perhaps have noticed things are going up on your credit card.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah. What are the different interest rates that people should be checking that could change, that aren't usually fixed?

Vera Gibbons:
That would be your variable rate loans, your credit cards are variable rate loans. If you had an adjustable rate mortgage, that's a variable rate loan. These are the types of things that people really need to check, especially that credit card rate, because when Fed raises their rates, your credit card rate goes up in sync, pretty much immediately. 25 Basis Point hike may not sound like a lot, but we've had a couple, and we're potentially going to get three or four hikes for the total of 2018. That credit card debt you carry months to months, to months over, you revolve your debt, is going to be more expensive.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's say you have a credit card, and you know it's not being paid off any time soon, what can you do?

Vera Gibbons:
If you have good credit, in the 700 range, you could always call up your credit card company and see if they'll actually lower your rate. That strategy continues to work today. If you have been paying your bills on time, if you've shown them that you're reliable, that you do pay everything off, and you're responsible, they may actually be willing to give you a bit of a break. That has been true for years and years and years, but a lot of people don't bother actually taking that step. If you notice your credit card rate has gone up, and it probably has over the course of the last six months, you could always pick up the phone and ask the credit card company to lower that rate, or to bring it down to the rate it once was a couple of months ago.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tell us a little bit more about Non Political News and where people can find it, where people can learn more about it, and more about you.

Vera Gibbons:
Non Political News, you can find it on NonPoliticalNews.com, once you sign on to subscribe, you will get a link to confirm your subscription, and then every day in your inbox, 7:00 a.m., you get a nice [inaudible 00:10:54] of Non Political News in consumer/personal finance, health and wellness, fashion/beauty, fitness and diet. Then on Friday, we run guest posts. We've had Jean Chatzky, we have had Peter Greenberg, we've had a bunch of CNBC people up from Bill Griffeth to Ron Insana up to Guy Adami do them.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know you're not a huge social media fan, but people would probably really enjoy following you, where can they?

Vera Gibbons:
Thanks, Bobbi. Yeah. We do have an Instagram account nonpoliticalnews. Like you said, I'm not very good about putting updates on there, but I promise to get better. On Facebook, we're Nonpoliticalnews. Twitter, we're NoPoDaily.

Bobbi Rebell:
NoPoDaily, like it.

Vera Gibbons:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Vera Gibbons, thank you so much. This was wonderful.

Vera Gibbons:
Thank you, it's been a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
So my friends, Vera learned some very big lessons very quickly. Financial Grownup tip number one, tune out the advice from well-meaning friends, who want you to take on costs before your business mission and priorities are well defined. Frankly, before you can afford them. Vera still has no clear path to revenue, so she's right to limit her expenses to only the most essential, making sure her emails go out without a hitch and paying her legal bills. She knows that if she adds people on, as she does on occasion, she keeps it freelance, and project-based, so flexibility is still there for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, if you aren't already, start paying attention to the news regarding the Fed and interest rates. It is going to get personal real fast. If you have any kind of loans, this is important to be paying attention to. But here's the good news, there is an upside, low rates have also meant very low returns for those on fixed incomes or those that just invest in fixed income instruments. Rates for things that you might want to invest in, like CDs, are going to go up. Glass half full my friends. I will leave some links in the show notes of places you can get some great information and stay up to speed on what matters.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you are not already, please hit that subscribe button. If you are listening on Apple podcast, or iTunes, please rate the podcast or leave a review. Also, if you liked the show, just tell a friend. Ask them to check it out as well. If you are enjoying the promos, and want one for yourself or for your business, follow me on social media and share them. I will be choosing a winner soon and it could be you. I am on Twitter, @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, and Facebook @bobbirebell. DM me your thoughts on the show, and what guests you would like to hear from.

Bobbi Rebell:
Loved how candid Vera Gibbons was with us about the challenges of starting and growing a business. Lots of lessons in hindsight already. So thank you, Vera, for bringing us all one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

When Skillcrush founder and CEO Adda Birnir got laid off from her job at a digital ad agency, she decided to follow the money and discovered a lucrative business she did not even know existed. Her ability to leverage events like South by Southwest and understand how to make tech education appeal to women have driven the phenomenal growth of her startup. 

 

In Adda’s money story you will learn:

-The big “aha” moment she had after being laid off, and seeing that the tech jobs were a lot more secure

-How a side project called Digital Divas, evolved into Skillcrush

-How a chance meeting led to a pivotal business partnership

-How Adda validated the Skillcrush concept

-The key risks and challenges in the early days of Skillcrush

-How they grew the company after a big test at South By Southwest

-The role that an incubator, and those resources played in the success of Skillcrush

-How they raised money from investors

In Adda’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of listening to your potential customers and their problem- before trying to sell a solution

-How to find the best way to appeal to potential customers

-The way Skillcrush overcomes stereotypes about women and coding

In Adda’s every day money tip you will learn:

-How Adda and her business partner set up a system to make sure to fund the company, while paying themselves a salary

-The best way that can apply to your personal life (or your business!) 

-Strategies for freelancers to streamline unsteady income

In my take you will learn:

-How to get over being intimidated by new things, like coding

-Why everyone should learn basic coding and web skills

-How creating virtual buckets can help your personal finances, and your business

Episode Links:

Learn more about Skillcrush! skillcrush.com

Try SkillCrush’s 10-day bootcamp! https://learn.skillcrush.com/skillcrush-10-day-bootcamp/

 

Follow Skillcrush and Adda!

Twitter: @skillcrush @addbjork

Instagram @skillcrush  @addabjork

Facebook Skillcrush addabjork

 

To win one of the promo video’s you see- be sure to share them on social media when you see them on my feeds!

Twitter @bobbirebell

Instagram @bobbirebell1

Facebook: Bobbi Rebell

Want to share your money story? Write to us and tell us about it at info@financialgrownup.com

---

Transcription

Adda Birnir:
What we learned very quickly is that women are not going out and searching, "I want to learn to code." Their motivation is not to learn to code, their motivation is to change their careers, and to make more money, and to have more creativity and flexibility.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then, my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends, that was Adda Birnir. She is CEO of Skillcrush, which is a big and growing online tech education company. She's talking about a big revelation that they had, when they were trying to figure out, how to better appeal to women, something very few tech companies were even trying to do, and this was way back in 2012.

Bobbi Rebell:
More on that in a sec, but first, just a quick welcome to all of our new listeners, if you're joining us for the first time, welcome. And if you're returning, welcome back. We try to keep the shows short, because we value your time. But you can also, of course, binge and listen to a few of them, if you're commuting. Or, if you have more time, you can listen to more episodes, all in a row.

Bobbi Rebell:
The goal is to deliver a valuable money story that you can learn from, hopefully be entertained by, and a money tip, that you can put into action pretty much right away, and weave into your life. If you enjoy the show, please consider taking a minute, and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, and thank you so much, to all of you that have already done so.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, back to Adda, and her story. After being laid off from a digital ad agency, where she was an associate producer, she noticed that the technical people all had jobs. She wanted that security, and of course, who doesn't want the money that goes with that security?

Bobbi Rebell:
So she decided, also, because she talks about the fact that she had a lot of free time, that she would learn to code. And it turned out, it wasn't actually that hard. So fast forward to a side hustle, doing coding projects with a friend, and then, to a business venture that actually didn't work out, but it led to one that did, because of basically a chance meeting. Isn't it always that way? That's just the way it happens sometimes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Get ready for some drama here. This is a good story. Here is Skillcrush CEO Adda Birnir.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Adda Birnir, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Adda Birnir:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all of your success. You are the founder and CEO of Skillcrush, which is the country's largest online tech education company. Your mission, of course, to help women and minorities learning digital skills, and you've been touted in the media as, so, for all of these accomplishments, 20 Women To Watch In Media, by Columbia Journalism School. You're one of the 30 Most Important Women In Tech, by Business Insider.

Bobbi Rebell:
We could basically spend the whole podcast going over that stuff, but I'm just happy to have you here, and get a little bit of your time in your busy day, running your growing empire. So thank you for being here.

Adda Birnir:
Yeah, thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
The money story that you're going to share with us has a lot to do with how Skillcrush was born.

Adda Birnir:
Yeah, so, this is 2012 now. This is kind of the heyday of the incubator. I mean, they still exist, but they were really big then, and we were interested in exploring, trying to create some sort of software product ourselves.We had been playing around with a couple different ideas, and like I said, Skillcrush, which was called something totally different at the time, it was called Digital Divas, was totally, just like, a fun side product.

Adda Birnir:
We had this Tablet publishing software, so it was basically, like, our goal was to make it easy for online publishers to publish to iPads. That was kind of the thing we thought was like an actual business.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it was a total business pivot.

Adda Birnir:
It wasn't even like, a pivot. It was like, an isolated example. We just threw one out, and we're like, "Oh, people think we're interested in this one." It was good. I mean, it was one of those examples that the market tells you what they're interested in. And basically, no one gave two bleeps about the Tablet publishing, and everyone was super interested in the Digital Diva thing.

Adda Birnir:
Then, at the same time, fortuitously, I did this program at CUNY, on the Journalism School. And there, I met a woman named Jennifer McFadden, who went on to become my cofounder at Skillcrush, and she had done a lot of research about the online education space.

Adda Birnir:
So it was sort of, one of those, sort of total kismet moments, where I had this education product, that I didn't have any sense for the business proposition, or the business opportunity, and she had all this deep knowledge about the education space. So that was what really started it.

Adda Birnir:
I will say, though, because we'd had this failed attempt at this Tablet publishing software, I was very, very cautious with Skillcrush. I didn't want to invest in it without validating the idea on some product.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what did you do? What are the steps you took to validate it?

Adda Birnir:
Basically, when you go through this process, what you want to do is, you want to figure out, what is your riskiest assumption? For us, because, at the time, there weren't as many online education players. But there was lynda.com. So we felt like, it's that aspect of it, will people pay for education online, was validated.

Adda Birnir:
That, to us, was not the riskiest assumption. The riskiest assumption for Skillcrush was whether women would pay for, or would be interested in, a technology learning platform. So we designed this experiment, which is that we started a newsletter, and basically, what the sort of offer was, that the newsletter offered, was, we would define a technical term, and find an interesting way. And we'd done a day for 30 days.

Adda Birnir:
We went to South By Southwest, and figured, what we'll do is, we'll pitch this to women at South By Southwest, and they will buy it, with their e-mail address. We considered that sort of like, a transaction, and we figured, if we can't convince women at South By Southwest to purchase this, with their e-mail address for free, obviously, then there's no hope for us.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what happens?

Adda Birnir:
So, I think we had set, fill that goal of having 2,000 signups, and we did not get that, because we were doing direct sales. But our hit rate was 90% of them. I mean, everyone we spoke to, we got to sign up for it, so that was kind of our first positive signal. Then we actually, through that process, happened to pitch a woman who happened to work for Mother Jones. So then, she wrote us up, and then, that gave us another 600 signups, or something.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow!

Adda Birnir:
That basically ended up with about 1,000 people.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then, what happened from there?

Adda Birnir:
So, from there, we started doing the Term a Day newsletter, and it started to build momentum, and I think we probably signed up, like, 3,000 people. Which, again, just to put this in perspective, this is shortly after Code Academy had gone live, and they had gotten 200,000 people to sign up over a 24-hour period. So I was completely bereft and disappointed by the 2,000. We had applied for the start of incubator, and we got in, and that gave us $25,000 of funding.

Adda Birnir:
The thing that I guess I think about it, like, at the time, I really needed that validation. Looking back on it, I think what I got out of it, more than the $25,000 ... because, honestly, the $25,000 just paid for incorporation. I didn't really have a lot of money, but it really was validation from an external source, that this is a cool idea, and you should keep working on it, and I think at that moment, I really needed that. But I don't think, the money itself, do you know what I'm saying?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Adda Birnir:
I think about this a lot, and looking back on it, I didn't need that validation, and that validation really didn't mean anything. Because they weren't my target audience, right? They didn't know.

Bobbi Rebell:
But at the time ...

Adda Birnir:
But at the time ...

Bobbi Rebell:
At the time, that mattered. Yeah.

Adda Birnir:
Exactly. But I just think about that, when I hear about women saying, "You know, I can't get funded," and I'm like, "Well, just remember, you don't need that validation from something." The only person, the only people that you need to validate your business are your customers, and often, it's easier to get them to validate it, than it is to get a venture capitalist to validate it.

Adda Birnir:
But we did, also from that, we did get another $50,000 as a convertible note from my other investors. That did give us some money, and that sort of about paid us, probably for the next four months, to build out Version 0.2, or whatever, of the product.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from this?

Adda Birnir:
A lot of people get very attached to what is their solution, and there's kind of a thing in the startup community, which is that you got a solution in search of a problem. I think the most important thing that I can say to people is, you really have to start from the opposite end, right? You have to start with a problem, and then, come up with a solution for it.

Adda Birnir:
So I would just really encourage everyone, that if you have a business idea, chances are, you're onto something. But, before you kind of go all in on building out what you think is the best solution to this problem that you perceive, is to really talk to the people who are going to be paying for this solution, and really make sure that you understand their problem, and more deeply.

Adda Birnir:
That's sort of the case with Skillcrush. We had a lot of bumps in the road, especially in that first year and a half, and a lot of that was because it wasn't that we hadn't identified a legitimate problem. Because we had.

Adda Birnir:
There were women who could benefit from technical skills, but I will tell you, what we learned very quickly is that women are not going out and searching, "I want to learn to code." Their motivation is not to learn to code, their motivation is to change their careers, and to make more money, and to have more creativity and flexibility.

Adda Birnir:
They have some interest, in the sense that technical skills could be helpful. The big insight for us was like, you can't sell women the jobs report. That's not how they purchase that, right? They are looking at, "What is this gonna do for me? What changes will I be able to see in my life?"

Adda Birnir:
That was a fundamental insight that I really didn't have, until I started talking to my customers, and really understanding what their pain points were, and their problems were, and making sure that the solution I was providing really aligned with what problem they were trying to solve.

Bobbi Rebell:
So let's get to your every day money tip, because it's actually a business lesson that applies equally to our personal financial levels.

Adda Birnir:
Yes. One of the biggest kind of "Aha" moments for me with my first business, which I was running with my friend, and we were both freelancers. I remember, we got this big check. I think it was for $10,000, or something, and her impulse was that we should just split it, 50/50. My thought, "Why don't we just set our salaries? We're each going to get $4,000 a month, or something."

Adda Birnir:
I don't remember what it was, these are hypothetical numbers, but I was like, "How about, instead of just splitting every check that comes in 50/50, why don't we put the money in a bank, and take salary, and create the sort of situation you would have, in a normal situation, where you are getting paid, like, a steady salary, even if your actual income is kind of lumpy?

Adda Birnir:
It was really interesting, because this obviously was really helpful for us, just from a perspective of, when you're a freelancer, it's really hard, because your salary and your income is unpredictable. So we sort of artificially created this predictability for us, but it turned out to be a really, really important shift in perspective, in terms of thinking about the business as a third entity, and not sort of seeing it as something, where we were just like, 50/50, but it was like being ... we were like an entity unto itself, that we wanted to grow, and build up.

Adda Birnir:
I think that, in a lot of ways, this is something that is really applicable to anyone who's running a freelance business, even if they're just a one-person freelance shop ... That, to really to start think about your freelancing career as a business, and you want to grow that business, and make sure that business has a really solid foundation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Skillcrush. So much going on. Tell me the latest for summer of 2018.

Adda Birnir:
We are in the process of launching a couple of new blueprints, so when you come to Skllcrsuh, you have two options, in terms of how you want to learn. You can either take our sort of, shorter, more specific skill focus, Blueprints.

Adda Birnir:
Or you can sign up for what we call a Breaking Detect Blueprint, which is our all-inclusive program. You get access to everything that we have, and a lot of personalization. We work with you to set your career goals, and all those things, but we have a couple of new blueprints coming out, where it's going to be launching: a Web developer blueprint, we have a UX Designer blueprint coming out, which is really exciting.

Bobbi Rebell:
And where people can learn more about you, and Skillcrush, and follow you on social media, and all that good stuff?

Adda Birnir:
You just got to skillcrush.com, and sign up for our 10-day boot camp. It's the best way to get started. It's totally free, and you can follow us on Twitter. Just add skillcrush, and on Instagram, at skillcrush. I'm out of Bork on all the platforms, although I'm not the best at this, that you can get ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Spell that out, then.

Adda Birnir:
Oh. A-D-D-A, B-J-O-R-K. It's just, like Bjork the singer, but it also happens to be my middle name, so ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it, because you're from Iceland. Which is a cool, random fact.

Adda Birnir:
Yes, definitely.

Bobbi Rebell:
How old were you when you came to this country? You were like a baby, right?

Adda Birnir:
I was a tiny little baby, yeah, and I speak Icelandic, and ...

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my gosh. Say something.

Adda Birnir:
[foreign language 00:13:01]?

Bobbi Rebell:
What does that mean?

Adda Birnir:
Just, "This really nice letter today."

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, on that note, we'll leave it there, thank you so much.

Adda Birnir:
Thanks for just having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. So here's my take. When Adda and I were talking before the interview, she confessed that she had been so intimidated, just by the concept of coding beforehand, that she was resisting it, until, of course, she learned about them money thing, and all that.

Bobbi Rebell:
But then, when she focused, and tried it, she found out, it actually wasn't that hard.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number One: don't be intimidated by coding, or any skill that can benefit your career. It's basically a language. It can be challenging, she says, but it will open opportunities, and is becoming a basic thing that we all need to know a little bit about, at least, the basic level.

Bobbi Rebell:
Even if you're not directly coding, you may be supervising someone who is coding, or have somebody on your team, or at your company, or a peer. Understanding the basics of what they're doing, is going to help you figure out and understand workflow and project management.

Bobbi Rebell:
For example, I learned even just basic HTML years ago, and I built a website, literally typing in the codee that's now generally automatically generated for you, I was actually typing in the different codes.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, pre-Wordpress, pre-Squares-based, the whole thing. Skillcrush does have a free 10-day boot camp. So you can do that. I'm going to leave a link in the notes. It's pretty much risk-free, and worth checking out.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup Tip Number Two: the every day money tip that she was talking about was basically about creating buckets for different needs with your money. So that can be really useful in your personal finances, even though she did really for business.

Bobbi Rebell:
Paying yourself the same amount each, especially if you have a variable income, is really useful. And then, you can put everything extra, in a different bucket, for a specific purpose. It's a great way, if you have a big goal, especially a goal that's intimidating, like, saving for a house down payment or something. Put it in a separate bucket. It'll start to add up. You won't even noticing it, and it works.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support of the show. If you like it, please, just tell a friend. Be sure to follow us on social media, and share the promo video, if you like them. You can win one for your business, or even just for yourself. Share them. Whoever the most this month, I'm going to pick someone, and I will make them a promotional video for themselves, or their business.

Bobbi Rebell:
On Twitter, you can follow me @bobbirebell, on Instagram, @obbirebell1. On Facebook, my page is Bobbi Rebell, and to learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financial grown-up podcasts.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, [Ada Bernier 00:15:47] learned to move out of a career that left her financially vulnerable. She built a business instead focusing on helping others follow the money. Always a good philosophy when it comes to business and career. So thank you, Adda, for sharing your story, and for getting us one step closer to being financial grownups.

Announcer:
Financial Grownup With Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve [Stuart 00:16:20], and is a BRK media production.

Likeable media’s Carrie Kerpen made a decision to step away from the day-to-day of her growing social media agency to focus almost exclusively on brand building. Today she is the host of the All the Social Ladies podcast,  the author of Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business, and hosts a Facebook Watch channel under the Work It brand.  

In Carrie’s money story you will learn:

-About Carrie’s company Likable, which is the 6th best place to work in New  York City!

-How Carrie and her husband started their company with just $10,000

-Why they chose to grow organically rather than take outside funding

-The strategy behind not taking outside advertising on Carrie’s popular podcast “All the Social Ladies”

-How and why Carrie became so focused on brand building for Likeable

-The specific steps she planned and executed to achieve targeted milestones

-Why the re-branded the company from its original name (and what that name was!) 

In Carrie’s money lesson you will learn:

-What to have in place in business before you start a brand building campaign

-How to determine the budget

-Metrics to consider when planning both short and long term goals

-Carrie’s strategy to balance content and connections on her podcast and other ventures

-How Carrie builds - and tracks- long term relationships with potential business partners, well ahead of time

-The specific kinds of goals Carrie sets to make sure she is generating value

-The biggest danger of long-term brand building strategies

In Carrie’s money tip you will learn:

-Her big negotiating strategy

-What she means when she says to hit the mute button

-How to use awkwardness to your advantage

-The secret to stalling as a strategy

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of making sure you have financial stability in your business, and in your life, before you pull yourself into longer term strategies

-Why tracking everything, including touch points with long term leads is essential

-How paying it forward creates a culture of giving and supporting- that nearly always becomes a profit driver for all parties involved. 

 

To get a free promo video- when you see the video-s share on social media!

 

Got a great money story to share? Be a guest! We love to have listeners on. Write to us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us your money story and an every day money tip and we’ll let you know if you have been selected for an upcoming episode!

 

EPISODE LINKS

Likeable.com

Listen to the All the Social Ladies Podcast!

Check out Carrie’s website CarrieKerpen.com

Get Carrie’s book Work it!

Follow Carrie!

Twitter @CarrieKerpen

Instagram @CarrieKerpen

Facebook Carrie Kerpen

Watch Carrie’s Work It Series on Facebook!

---

Transcription

Carrie Kerpen:
I track everything. Every email I send. Every time I get coffee. All of the things that I do with people who are qualified. And I also track what value I'm adding to them. I often send them things whether it's sending an article that I find relevant. Whether it's article to get them a piece in Forbes or something along those lines. I always am looking at how I can help people who can help me too.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me certified financial planner [Bobbi Rebell 00:00:29], author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grown up is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own . We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Ever wonder how those cool brands, become so cool. Well there's actually a whole business around it. It doesn't happen by accident. We have one of the best in the business here with us, giving us the scoop on how she builds her own social media marketing and branding business. And personal brand. And it is very intentional and thought out. You'll be surprised how much goes into it. Nothing happens by accident my friends. First a quick welcome to our new listeners and our returning ones. So happy you're with us. If you like the show, tell someone. And of course don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes. I also want to thank everyone that's been emailing me, DM'ing me, posting compliments, on various social media about the video promos. Thank you. I really appreciate it. I did them by myself, and they were so much fun and I'm also really excited that we are having this contest where I'm going to get to make one for one of you, for your business or for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All you have to do is share them between now and July first. If it goes well, we'll do it again. But I need you guys to share the videos when you see them, retweet them, on Facebook share them, on Instagram. You can repost them and make sure to tag me so that I see it, but I do have software that tracks as well. And you know what? You got to be in it, to win it. So you guys, you've been emailing me asking if you can pay me to make one. This is a way to get one for free, literally the most tiniest effort, totally free and I can't wait to see who I get to make one for. It's going to be really fun. Let's go to our guest. Likable Media's Carrie Kerpen, is the host of all the social ladies podcast, the author of Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business. And she also, because she has so much free time, she's also a mom and a wife by the way, she hosts a Facebook watch channel, under the Work It brand as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
She has fun for sure, but as you will hear she is meticulous in tracking her return on brand building investment. Carrie has specific metrics and goals, with all this content creation going on. She is laser focused on making sure that all of the pieces of her Likeable strategy work together. Like I said guys, nothing happens by accident, there's not a lot of luck involved. It's a lot of hard work, here is Carrie Kerpen. Carrie Kerpen you're a financial grownup welcome to the podcast.

Carrie Kerpen:
Thank you so much Bobbi, I'm so happy to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I love watching all of your different developments to your journey, in addition to being the head of Likeable Media, you have your podcast, All the Social Ladies, because you're a social media agency. You have your book, Work It: Secrets for Success from the Boldest Women in Business. And of course you have columns in Ink and Forbes, and now you're in TV videos. You're everywhere Carrie.

Carrie Kerpen:
Thank you. I try. I'm trying.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait I have one more shout out. Your company, Likable Media, is the sixth best place to work. Is that in the world, or just New York City?

Carrie Kerpen:
That's New York. Sixth in New York City, but if you ask me it's the best place in the world to work. Because everybody's really does have a great time here.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I visited it, and I can attest it's a really great group of people that you have working at Likable, so. That's a very well earned, accolade. Is that what you call it? Award?

Carrie Kerpen:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
I don't know.

Carrie Kerpen:
An accolade, a distinction. Any of the things.

Bobbi Rebell:
All good things, yeah. So you do a lot for your work. So for your money story, what we're going to talk about is the fact that, while you definitely have to focus on the bottom line and earning, you have a nicely growing staff, you've got to support that payroll. At the same time, your money story has to do with making some business decisions, that aren't immediately obvious how they're going to pay off. Tell us what happened.

Carrie Kerpen:
Absolutely. So I have typically been very bottom-line focused in building my business and growing. You know, we grew when we started, my husband and I started this business with $10,000 in the bank, and we worked our way up, as an agency. You would sell clients, you would get in money, you would hire people. And sort of grow organically. We didn't take in funding or anything like that. And I had always been super conscious of the bottom line. And once we got to a point where I felt like we were really stable and I had a good understanding of our profit margins. I decided to take a certain amount of the profit margins and invest in brand building and investing in myself. I started with a podcast, which most people do a podcast, and look at it and say okay, how am I going to make money from advertising. I wasn't-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well you are the advertiser. Likable is the sponsor.

Carrie Kerpen:
Exactly. I invest-

Bobbi Rebell:
And you've turned people down.

Carrie Kerpen:
Yes-

Bobbi Rebell:
I know that you've been approached by outside sponsors.

Carrie Kerpen:
Outside sponsors, networks, et cetera. I don't take advertising for that podcast. I didn't take you know, a ton of money for Work It. You know just a simple amount to write it. And really didn't focus intensely on making money from book sales. And I really don't focus on incorporating any sponsors into Work It, now the series that I run on Facebook Watch. I really looked at that as a long game investment, in Likable's future, and in my future. How am I going to build a brand and focus on the brand building activities, and keep it out of being sponsored, you know, really just be truly focused on building the brand and adding value. And not worry so much on that about the bottom line. Understanding that investing in that upfront, yields a long-term result.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were there discussions with your team about this? With your husband, who's not fully involved in the business anymore, but he's still obviously an advisor in your life?

Carrie Kerpen:
Yes. So there were discussions around this both with my team and with my husband who serves on the board at Likable. So I would say that the first place I learned this from was my husband when he launched a book, that became a New York Times bestseller, called Likeable Social Media, back in 2010, when we were building the business. And we had just renamed our business Likable, it wasn't originally Likable when we started.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the original name?

Carrie Kerpen:
The original name was the Cabas Kerpen. We had no idea what we were doing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh that's so interesting, I never knew that. The Cabas.

Carrie Kerpen:
It was a very brief period of time we were the Cabas for about two years and then we decided to do Likable when, on the Facebook it was still like become a fan. You didn't even like a brand page. It was so fortuitous that as we did that, that really propelled are growth forward. Yeah so, Dave launched this book, invested a ton of time and energy in it. Essentially had me running the business while he was working on that brand. Didn't focus so much on book sales just focused on really getting his brand out there. And that really did help propel our business forward. So I learned from him, to do that, but I had a little bit of a lack of confidence of doing that, because I was uncomfortable, A, investing in myself, and B, putting myself in the spotlight. And so I had hesitated for a long time to use that strategy.

Carrie Kerpen:
Once I decided to use the strategy, I also met with the management and leadership team here at Likable, and said hey, I want to be where I can best serve the company. And I think the way I can best serve the company is to help drive leads through building a brand. What do you guys think if we take this year, and we really invest in that? And they thought that it was actually a great idea. And so I had the management structure in place, where the day to day handling of clients, was taken care of by my president, and the leadership team here at Likable. And so that I allowed myself, and freed myself up to do this. And once I had buy in from them, and buy in from Dave, I was ready to go.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. So you were very aware that this was not going to be revenue driving. This was about brand building. What is the lesson then for other people who maybe want to do something that is not direct to the bottom line because there is so much pressure. How do you know when it's worth it? Because there's also the danger that you could say I'm doing this, but they're kind of just going down a road where they're doing something fun and fulfilling but maybe it doesn't necessarily pay off. Not every ... In other words, you were very directed, but how can you tell what is going to be a productive brand building exercise, non-revenue producing thing that you're going to do, that will lead, playing the long game, to building your business, as opposed to something that's just kind of going down the road.

Carrie Kerpen:
I have a few tips on this. So the first is to make sure you have enough in the bottom line to be able to invest in doing this. So I wouldn't recommend starting with this, when you have no bottom line, and no source of income or ability to do this. You need to be at a point where you've built your business enough to be sustainable, and have enough income that you're willing to invest. The second thing, is that you must be able to really articulate the way that this will help your business in the long run. So for me, when I do interviews, I make sure that a certain percentage of interviews are with women who I think can either be future clients or are people who can help me grow Likable. Either as advisors, or something along those lines. And I'm helping them by giving them a platform, and they're helping me, by helping me not only grow my network, but find the right people to work with. And I think the third piece, of what helps you set a strategy like this, is to have a long term goal. So, I wouldn't do this without an ability to have a long term financial goal attached.

Carrie Kerpen:
So in other words, the actual activities may not produce revenue. However, I can pull back and say, because of the women I've met through this, or because of this activity that I've done, I've been able to generate $5 million, over the course of five years. So something that is more long term, helps you thinking in the long term vision. This may not make you money right now, but how will this make you money in the long term?

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you set specific goals?

Carrie Kerpen:
Yes, I set specific goals for everything that I do. First I set specific goals on the bottom line that I need to produce for the, right now. So what are the activities that I'm doing right now that generate revenue? Then on the long term goals, I start with how many people am I going to need who I would describe as qualified? How many women or men am I going to network with who are potential clients of Likable. If that were my strategy. And then, it starts with the number of people I meet. Then the number of touch points, how many times I connect with them. I keep it all really well documented, so that I know that I'm nurturing relationships over time. And I think that's one of the keys to really looking at a long-term strategy. One of the dangers of a long-term strategy is you could say, oh it's so long term, it feels so far away I don't really need to worry about revenue at all. However with that, you can get really lost and invest too much in the current activity that you're doing to build a brand and then not reach the long-term goal. You have to always have that long-term goal in mind and I always have a revenue goal in mind when I do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're being intentional, and you're tracking what you're doing.

Carrie Kerpen:
I track everything. Every email I send. Every time I get coffee. All of the things that I do with people who are qualified. And I also track what value I'm adding to them. Like I often send them things. Whether it's sending an article that I find relevant. Whether it's helping to get them a piece in Forbes or something along those lines, I always am looking at how I can help people who can help me too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Another way you can help people is with your money tip, which has to do with negotiating.

Carrie Kerpen:
Yup, in negotiating use what I call your mental mute button. In other words, sometimes when negotiating, we tend to talk way too much. We will go, well I think this, and I think I'm worth this, or I think I should be getting this. And here's why. And let me give you all of these reasons. Instead use a mental mute. Let's say you're negotiating for a speaking engagement. What is the speaking fee for this engagement? And then pause. Let them own the awkwardness. Let them ... Don't say well I normally charge this and well I normally do this. If you just put yourself on mute, let the awkwardness go to them, let them talk, and then give yourself the power to respond. Take a minute. And take a pause. Use that mental mute button and your negotiating will get a lot better, a lot faster.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. Do you ever leave completely and then come back and say I'll think about it, or do you feel you have to give an answer right away?

Carrie Kerpen:
No, I love stalling, I don't mind stalling at all. I think any kind of awkwardness to put on them is good, and owning your own time and your own power in that way is great.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, Carrie Kerpen, tell us what's going on. The book is already a best-seller. Now you're doing more video.

Carrie Kerpen:
Yup. So you can watch Work It on Facebook Watch, under Carrie Kerpen. You can get Work It, at workitthebook.com. And follow me at Carrie Kerpen on all social handles. It's all the same thing. Carrie Kerpen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you Carrie Kerpen.

Carrie Kerpen:
You are welcome Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Carrie makes it all look so easy, so it was great to hear the behind-the-scenes. There's a lot of thought and intention going on with everything that Carrie does. Not the least of which is that she didn't start doing all this personal branding until the time was right. So financial grownup tip number one, don't forget, you need for your business to have enough financial stability, so you can do things like meet payroll and other financial obligations, before you go out and do this big brand building like Carrie did. It's not that brand building is a luxury, or nice to have. It's needed. Totally. But keep the lights on in the most basic sense, paying your employees, making sure that payroll is happening and your business is running. That's got to come first. Financial grownup tip number two. Track everything. It is great to be social with clients, potential clients, and business related friends. And sometimes the lines get really blurred with who's a friend, who's a business acquaintance, who's a client. Life is messy.

Bobbi Rebell:
But this is still something that's important. It's something I don't do. But Carrie made me think about it. It is something worth starting to track. A connection made years ago and nurtured, can yield results now or in the future. Don't just go to people when you need something from them. Go to them, when you can give them something that may not even be something that they have been asking you for. Proactively offer to do something for them. Something you know they could benefit them. So many of the best opportunities come from the most tangential contacts. Often people that are not even in your closest circles. It's karma. It'll come back to you. So go today to someone that you haven't touch base with in a little bit, and reach out. And see if there's something you could do to help their business. All right I have been totally overwhelmed by emails and DM's, Facebook Messenger, social media comments, texts and in-person requests, for those promo videos. Just a reminder they are not for sale but they are available to win if you are interested. Very easy.

Bobbi Rebell:
All you have to do is when you see the promo videos on social media, retweet them, share them, repost them, tag me if you can. I do have software that tracks it either way, but just to be sure feel free to tag me when you do that. Don't assume by the way that you're not eligible for some reason. The winner of a recent book giveaway contest for Randi Zuckerberg's Pick Three, was someone that I knew, but you know what? She was first to enter, she was enthusiastic, she flowed directions and she was so excited when she won. As long as you're not related to me, and as long as you don't have any financial ties to the podcast, you are in. And guys isn't free better than paying for a video? I'm excited to see who wins. Anyway, on that note, I'll have to come up with a really good video, a really likable video I should say, for miss Carrie Kerpen.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you enjoyed her story about investing in brand building. And doing things that sometimes a re a little bit out of our comfort zone. It's hard, even for me. I'm having a tough time getting comfortable sharing more of my life, personal things, but I'm working on it. I confess to not being good at tracking all of my various business coffees and all that stuff. More to come we'll see. But the responses make it worth it, So thanks to all of you. And thanks to Carrie for getting us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a beer cave media production.

Award-winning CBS Business News Analyst, and radio and podcast host Jill Schlesinger CFP® talks about how she literally paid off her ex-husband to go away, after just one year of marriage. She also shares her best tip for organizing and tracking spending. 

In Jill’s money story you will learn:

-The negotiation that went on during her divorce

-The advice her father gave  her and the significance of his perspective

-The financial- and other- costs of marrying the wrong person

 

In Jill’s money lesson you will learn:

-The value of using money and financial resources to move on, even when it is not a fair payment

-How Jill’s background as a trader gave her perspective on cutting her losses in bad situations. 

-How to apply Jill’s lessons to different situations in life, from stocks, to high living expenses

 

In Jill’s money tip you will learn:

-Her advice to cut transportation and commuting costs

-Don’t sweat the small stuff but pay attention to the big stuff like life insurance

-Keep your finances simple, for example charge on just one credit card

-About the book Jill is writing “Dumb Things Smart People Do with Their Money” including a sneak peak!

 

In My Take you will learn:

-Ways to apply Jill’s philosophy of cutting your losses, including stocks, business partnerships and consumer goods

-How to know what to insure

-Specifically how I just was able to get a 44% price cut on my annual home insurance

 

Episode Links

Learn more about Jill at https://www.jillonmoney.com/

Check out the Better Off Podcast

Follow Jill!

Twitter: @jillonmoney

Facebook Jill On Money

Instagram: @jillonmoney

Linkedin JillonMoney

YouTube Jill Schlesinger

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Transcription

Jill Schlesinge:
He asked for a number that I thought was ridiculous. I countered with a number that he thought was ridiculous. We agreed on a number that we both thought was unfair, which probably meant it was a good deal for both of us.

Jill Schlesinge:
I wasn't paying him, I was paying for my freedom.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup, and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, do you ever wish and imagine that there would be a check big enough to make a problem go away? It could happen. We'll talk more about that soon, but first a quick welcome to our new listeners, and welcome back to our Financial Grownup regulars. Please keep telling your friends about the podcast so we can continue to grow, and if you listen on Apple Podcasts, take just a few minutes to rate and review it. That also helps us get discovered and is really important, and needless to say, much appreciated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Jill Schlesinger, award-winning journalist for her national radio show, she is also the CBS Business news analyst, and she hosts the Better Off podcast. I met Jill when my book came out. A mutual friend introduced us, and then I was thrilled when I got to be on her award-winning radio program. Did I say award-winning enough? She won a big Gracie award recently.

Bobbi Rebell:
As you guys know, I'm a big believer in learning from the best, and while modest, Jill is way up there with the best in the business, and scores extra points in my book for being a certified financial planner and encouraging my efforts to get the designation as well. But what I did not expect was such a candid conversation with Jill. What she says about how she literally, she bribed, let's say what it is, she bribed someone to get out of her life. It really took me by surprise. She goes there. You guys should listen to this. You're gonna enjoy it. Here is Jill Schlesinger.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey Jill Schlesinger, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Jill Schlesinge:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big congratulations are in order. You just got back from a very special trip to LA for a very big award. Tell us.

Jill Schlesinge:
Oh, well as you know, I got a Tony award. Just kidding. I got a Grammy award. No, just kidding, I got something called a Gracie. A Gracie, I'm so old I knew exactly who that referred to. That refers to Gracie Allen who was a very strong woman in Hollywood many, many years ago. The Alliance of Women in Media gives out an award for TV, radio, podcasts, and my executive producer Mark and I won for the best national radio show, so we're very psyched.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm very psyched for you. I am honored that I was once a guest on the show when my book came out. And you even got to walk the red carpet.

Jill Schlesinge:
I know, and that is always sort of a frightening thing for a big, tall woman who does not usually wear heels that are that tall, so that was daunting. That was the hardest part of the whole thing. Give me a spreadsheet to go through, but don't make me walk in heels.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, so you brought with you a money story. Do tell, Jill.

Jill Schlesinge:
Remember when you were on my radio show and at the end you like completely hijacked me and turned the tables, and you're like-

Bobbi Rebell:
Totally.

Jill Schlesinge:
... "Tell me something."

Bobbi Rebell:
Exactly.

Jill Schlesinge:
So I have a money story that is basically about divorce, and it's kind of both a real divorce, a marriage dissolving, a partnership, a business partnership dissolving, and my story is this. I learned something from my now deceased father when I was talking about my divorce and I was very upset about the whole things. I had really such a schmucky ex-husband who literally threatened to sue me for alimony after being married for a year, a month, and a day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Jill Schlesinge:
Yeah. I hope you're listening. You know who you are. And what I realized very quickly after my father kind of laid it out for me, he's like, "You know what, honey? You worked your butt off on Wall Street, you made a few bucks, you got some money. All this guy wants is for you to pay him off. Pick a number, make him feel like a man..." He put that in sort of italics, "and move on. And the quicker you move on, the quicker you move on for your life, and there's actually no price tag for that freedom."

Jill Schlesinge:
That is a money story that I have brought through my life, which I was able to actually help my clients with 'cause I went into the client business where I was managing money as a certified financial planner. And as soon as you realized you had enough money to sort of write a check, and you realized that it really wasn't the amount, it was just the fact that you would do it, that that became a really important lesson for me.

Jill Schlesinge:
And so my wisdom to impart on you and your listenership is that sometimes, don't worry about who's right or wrong. Just pay and move on.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, you did that, I assume, with your now very long time ago ex-husband. Was it an amount of money that was meaningful to you or was it actually just a small amount that made it go away in principle? I mean, did it hurt financially?

Jill Schlesinge:
No, it did not hurt financially. It hurt from a pride perspective because I felt like I was being punished monetarily for marrying the wrong person for a year. And so it hurt me to even think that I had to put a dime in this guy's pocket after one year of marriage. What I really stopped doing in that ... again, after my dad gave me this really good advice is that I wasn't paying him, I was paying for my freedom, and that's how I made the adjustment.

Bobbi Rebell:
And how did the ex respond? Did he just say, "Great, I'll take the check. Thank you very much. Goodbye." Or was he a jerk about it?

Jill Schlesinge:
Oh man. Well, obviously if you're married to someone for a year and that person is suing you for alimony, the jerkiness is sort of well-documented.

Bobbi Rebell:
True true.

Jill Schlesinge:
But what I could say is this. He asked for a number that I thought was ridiculous. I countered with a number that he thought was ridiculous. We agreed on a number that we both thought was unfair, which probably meant it was a good deal for both of us, that we both kind of moved on.

Jill Schlesinge:
And you know what? He got remarried, I moved on, it kind of did work out. But again, for me the lesson being, there is absolutely no reason to get stuck. For me, I'm the kind of person who could get stuck on it is not the right thing, and that was just not worth it for me. Whether it was right or wrong or someone was right or wrong or whether I was wronged or he felt wronged, it didn't matter. We both had to get out of this thing. We both realized it was over.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for our listeners, I like what you said before about this isn't just about ending a marriage. It could be about ending any kind of partnership. How does this apply ... what is the takeaway for our listeners? What's the lesson here?

Jill Schlesinge:
I was born a trader. That was my first job on Wall Street. I was a commodities trader, and the one beautiful thing about being a trader is that you quickly learn you always have a bad trade. There's nobody who gets to go through life as a trader and not experience the recognition very quickly of, "Oh my god, I'm in a bad trade."

Jill Schlesinge:
So, you're gonna do that in your financial life a million times over. You're gonna realize like, "Uh-oh, bad trade. Like uh-oh, I actually moved into an apartment that is too expensive for me. I am going to pay the two month penalty to get out and move to another apartment." Or, "I'm going to do something different." Or, "I bought something, I bought a stock, I bought a mutual fund, I did something," and you immediately realize you've screwed up. "I bought an insurance policy I don't understand. There's a penalty to get out. Maybe I need to get out."

Jill Schlesinge:
When you feel that recognition in your soul that you've done something that's probably not right for you, if you don't know for sure, go get advice, but do not ignore that feeling.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, I am on the edge of my seat. What is your everyday money tip for our listeners.

Jill Schlesinge:
Well I have two different things to just impart for everyday money tips, and this is for anyone who lives in a city. Like, I'm a walker. Just walk everywhere. That is actually how I saved more money than anything. People take cabs all the time. I'm a huge mass transit person. Now, you don't live in a place where there is mass transit, this is irrelevant to you.

Jill Schlesinge:
My other everyday tip is don't sweat the small stuff that you ... you're gonna think that I'm a certified financial planner and I count every single penny I spend. I don't. I've done that, but I know generally how much to spend, and I don't quibble over little things. But I'm very thoughtful about big things. So my everyday money tip is that like, you know, you're worried about whether you get a latte at Starbucks versus making your own coffee, that's not the big decision to sweat. Sweat more about the big decisions like, "Gee, I need to buy life insurance but I haven't yet."

Jill Schlesinge:
So, I really am not a big sweat of the small stuff kind of person. My everyday is to live my life, walk around, know exactly how much money's in my pocket, and I loathe to do anything besides charge on one credit card only. That's it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Keeping it simple. Thank you, Jill. So tell me more about what you're up to post-Gracie award.

Jill Schlesinge:
Well, you know, obviously I have to put those shoes away 'cause I'll never walk in them again.

Bobbi Rebell:
So those are not the shoes you use to walk around Manhattan?

Jill Schlesinge:
No. No, I am a big fan of the Allbirds to get all over Manhattan. So, I host a podcast called Better Off. I host a radio show called Jill on Money. I write a column for Tribune. I am working every day at CBS News, both in radio and TV. And here's the big news that I've just submitted my manuscript for my first book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Jill Schlesinge:
So that's dropping next February, so I'll come back on in February when the book drops. How's that?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes. Absolutely. Oh my gosh, congratulations. You didn't tell me that till just now. I'm so excited for you. Can you tell us just a little more about it?

Jill Schlesinge:
Yes. The tentative title is Dumb Things Smart People Do With Their Money, and it is based on the fact that I have been in the business for so long and I've been around incredibly bright people who consistently shoot themselves in the foot. They mostly do it to themselves, and there are a series, you know, maybe a dozen or so very practical things that you can do to avoid making those dumb mistakes.

Jill Schlesinge:
So, that is ... it's not a book for everyone, but it is definitely a book for someone who has a brain and says, "Why do I keep doing dumb financial things? I have a brain. Why is it that I can't do these things?" And I know that's most of your audience, 'cause smart people listen to people like you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, thank you Jill. And smart people listen to people like you, and I love listening to your podcast and your radio show. So thank you, and I'm looking forward to your book.

Jill Schlesinge:
I am too. Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jill totally delivered, so let's get right into it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: Cut your losses and move on. This applies not just to divorce, as was Jill's main example, it also applies to things like investments, like stocks. If a stock that you liked is no longer in your like category, it doesn't have the same criteria that it had when you picked it, get out. Cut your losses. It's okay to take a loss and move on and use that money to buy a different stock that's maybe a better investment that you'd otherwise be missing out on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Business partnerships, not working, not fixable, find a way out. We all want to come out with the win. You're gonna want to have more, especially if you're in an adversarial position with your business partner, but you know what? Sometimes getting out is more important than getting even. So focus on that and make sure that you can get out and move on to something that's gonna make you happier and maybe more money than that business. Maybe you bought something, maybe an electronic device and the store wants to charge you a re-stocking fee, which is so ridiculous. But you know what? If you don't return it and pay that penalty, you're gonna have something that you don't want taking up space in your home, and you won't have the 90% let's say, of the purchase price that you'd be getting back to then buy what you actually do want. So don't dig in your heels. Just get out, get your money back, move on.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Jill talked about insurance, which is a really important thing to talk about, a very grownup thing. At least once a year, take a look, assess what you've got, and figure out, are the things that would be really hard to replace if something unexpected happened covered. Things like home insurance, renter's insurance, they usually have under them, personal liability. Those are good things to make sure that you have. You can usually tie them together.

Bobbi Rebell:
And guys, this is a big one. I kind of blew it. I have not been negotiating well with my insurance companies, but I did recently, I went to my homeowner's insurance company, pointed out that I'm a really good customer. I've been with them for years. I don't file claims, which is very fortunate on my part, hopefully that won't change, and I asked them to lower my rate and just said, "I'm gonna start shopping around for a better rate somewhere else." And you know what? Within 24 hours, they came back with a new policy, all the same coverage, but 44% lower in terms of annual premium. So, that was a nice chunk of change on annual homeowner's insurance just for asking. And if that's my hourly rate for spending not even an hour doing that, I'll take it.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. We just had our first listener episode. To be considered for a future one, email us at info@financialgrownup.com. That's info@financialgrownup.com. Share with us what money story you would like to tell, and the lesson and the everyday money tip that you think our listeners would get value from.

Bobbi Rebell:
And a reminder, you can't win it if you're not in it. If you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show, join the competition. All you have to do, it's totally free, when you see one of the promo videos for the episodes, just share it. Retweet it on Twitter or share it on Facebook. Everyone keeps DMing me and telling me they'll never win and can they just buy one. You have to try. Guys, you gotta be in it to win it. Just share it and retweet it and repost, and you may surprise yourself and be the winner.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for being part of our Financial Grownup community. If you enjoy the show, consider leaving a rating or review, and of course, hit the subscribe button and just tell a friend if you're enjoying the show. It means a lot to us.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram at BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook at Bobbi Rebell.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jill's advice definitely resonated with me. I hope it worked for you as well. We all tend to cling to our previous convictions. We need to move past that. So thank you, Jill, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Writer Paulette Perhach, known for her F*** Off Fund articles and website, has been featured in Cosmo and Glamour, but collecting cash from her writing clients was killing her ability to be a financial grownup. Paulette also shares her secret to free stuff- and previews her upcoming book “Welcome to the Writer’s Life, our August 15.. 

In Paulette’s money story you will learn:

-Why Paulette struggles with accepting whether or not she is a financial grownup

-How Paulette became famous, but without the financial rewards following that fame

-The job Paulette had that taught the her most about sales and marketing

-What Paulette did on the day she realized she needed to make some cash- fast

-How Paulette keeps her expenses in check to allow her to pursue her writing career

-Why collecting pay, in a timely manner, is just as important as getting hired

-How Paulette adjusted her pitch to focus less on her needs, and more on her customer needs

-The strategy Paulette used to leverage the contacts she made on one day, into future long term and consistent clients

-The psychological technique Paulette uses when she feels discouraged

In Paulette’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of keeping expenses low when income is unpredictable- and specific strategies to do that.

-How and why pay does not line up with work, and how you can manage cash flow challenges

In Paulette’s money tip you will learn

-How she gets things for free!

-The specific items and services she has received that were given to her and why, along with how she contributes to her community

-Where you can find Buy Nothing groups

-About Paulette’s new book “Welcome to the Writers Life”

-Paulette’s advice: If you are in the arts, you are also in sales

In My Take you will learn:

-The importance of keeping overhead low when starting a business, and maintaining cost controls

-How to integrate money making ideas into things you already do and enjoy

Episode Links

Paulette' website: Fuckofffund.com

Follow Paulette- and her bank balances!

Twitter: @PaulettePerhach

Instagram: @PaulettePerhach

Hire Paulette as a writing consultant and much more!! https://hugohouse.org/store/consultant/paulette-perhach/

Pre-order Paulette’s book “Welcome to the Writers Life” !

If you want to be considered for an upcoming listener episode- email us your money story, money lesson and money tip to info@financialgrownup.com

If you want to win a free custom video promo- share and retweet the promos when you see them - and make sure to tag @bobbirebell

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Transcription

Paulette Perhac:
It's never been too good to hustle. Some days, you got to hustle and yeah, I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of, How to be a Financial Grownup, but you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a Financial Grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this. Hey friends, before we get to our awesome guest, Paulette Perhac known for what she calls in our friendly universe, the Foe fund.

Bobbi Rebell:
It'll make sense, trust me. I just want to welcome all of our new listeners to the podcast and also welcome back our regular listeners. We keep your episodes short to fit your schedule, but also to be flexible. So you can binge and hear a few great stories when you have a little more time in your day. If you are enjoying the show, please take a moment to tell a friend about it. Share it on social media, we want to get your help growing the community and we really appreciate it by the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest, Paulette, as you will hear, I joke with Paulette Perhac that she's not quite a financial grownup, but really are we ever? It's a process and for Paulette, the process has been painful at times. She has received a ton of acclaim for her writing and even has been able to raise her rates a bit, but collecting the cash, that has kept her on the financial edge and forced her to get creative. You're going to like this one. Here is Paulette Perhac. Hey Paulette Perhac you're a financial grownup or at least getting there. Welcome to the podcast.

Paulette Perhac:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we're getting it a little bit giggly, which will make a lot of sense in just a minute when Paulette tells her story. But you are an emerging major writer. You've had pieces all over the place including the piece that got you really famous called the F off Fund and we're going to keep it clean here so no worry. If you are in the car listening with your kids, but Paulette, before we get to your money story, tell us a little bit about this article that sort of blasted you into the universe.

Paulette Perhac:
So we call it in my family around my nephew the fore fund, so-

Bobbi Rebell:
The Fore fund, I like that.

Paulette Perhac:
As I was coming into my 30s and got a great job at a tech company and had for the first time a few thousand in the bank that didn't have a name on it. I was thinking back to some memories that I had of times that I was desperate for a job or couldn't move out because I just couldn't afford to. I realized, "Oh, it would've been so nice if I had, had this money in that bank account." And you don't really think about because humans have this optimism bias.

Paulette Perhac:
If you don't think bad situations you're going to get in. So, I really described a situation in which you do the normal thing. Where you're living paycheck to paycheck and then getting bad situations or if you decide to be someone who can have a fore fund in case you need it and what that would look like. So I described those two scenarios in the fore fund article. I thought it was just another essay and then it blew up and it went all around the world and just this month, both Cosmo and Glamour mentioned it. Two years later, which is crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great, and now that's becoming a whole business, which we're going to circle back to. But I want to hear the money story that you're ready to share with us, and it's so apropos because just moments ago what crosses on my Instagram, but a snapshot of your bank account, which despite all of the success with your fore fund writing and the business that is emerging from that article, which is unbelievable, that this is all happening to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes massive career success and prominence does not always connect to money. So, you found yourself one day with how much money in your bank account would you say?

Paulette Perhac:
So I had about $900 and my rent on my tiny place in Seattle was about to come through at 795.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, because we were just joking about this, your apartment is how big.

Paulette Perhac:
It's 150 square feet.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Just saying not like you're living so large.

Paulette Perhac:
Not living so large. So I was like, "What do I do?" And I had just been feeling like I'm living large because you and I were in the Catskills in New York. I'm going to these parties with like Aaron Lowery and meeting with my editor at the New York Times and having breakfast with another reporter at the New York Times.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just like big media people, big stuff that's happening.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, big stuff is happening. Having meetings with people who are on the Forbes Top 100 most powerful women list. Awesome, right? And we're in talks about future projects, et cetera. So, it's like everything's coming together. Then I landed home and I'm like, I have $100. I don't have any work lined up. I just posted yesterday on Instagram a timeline of something I'm about to get paid for. I pitched that story on February 12th. So that shows you how long it takes to get from pitch to payment?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Paulette Perhac:
And so I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I'm in trouble. What am I going to do?"

Bobbi Rebell:
You need cash immediately.

Paulette Perhac:
I need cash. Yeah. So the panic starts to rise up, right? And I've really realized this year that the panic is not helping you and so you just have to calm down whenever you feel those feelings. I'm like, what will help you feel more powerful? I'm like, you need like an adult lemonade stand, and I just decided a lemonade stand-

Bobbi Rebell:
And by lemonade stand, what do you mean?

Paulette Perhac:
I mean like a personal mini business from which you feel fairly confident you could make some money in the next 24 hours and that's marketing, execution and billing. So, I took the last of my business cards and I printed up a label for the back. Mother's Day was that Sunday, so I'm like, Mother's Day, I'm hustling. So I printed up labels that said mother's Day photos, like quick and easy or quick and fun. Mother's Day photos, 15 minutes, 20 bucks.

Paulette Perhac:
And I took my camera. I looked at like, what are my assets, right? I have a car, I could drive around, I can't do uber, it's from 1996. So I could deliver food.

Bobbi Rebell:
Uber has standards.

Paulette Perhac:
Uber has standards, I do not. A to B, that's my standard. So I looked at my other asset, which is this really nice camera that I bought as an investment in my writing, in travel writing business. So I just went around and hustled all day, Mother's Day. I think I walked six miles. I ran out of business cards, but I-

Bobbi Rebell:
What was your pitch? Tell us your pitch.

Paulette Perhac:
My pitch. I started by being like, "Hi, I'm a local writer and a photographer," and people were just like, "ugh." So, I realize I'm talking about myself. Nope, so it evolves over the day to focus on the customer and I just said, "Hi, happy mother's Day," because no one's like, "Go away if you say Happy Mother's Day." I said, "Happy Mother's day, if you guys want a nice photo, I'm doing $20 portraits today." So it was a really fun day overall.

Paulette Perhac:
I felt empowered. I felt like I was taking control and then I got some follow up clients actually, I'm rewriting one of the groups of women. One of them was from San Francisco. She's a realtor from San Francisco. We got to talking. They were great, I gave them a little bit of extra time just because it was fun, and she is hiring me to rewrite her bio for 300 bucks.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so awesome. That's so awesome. Wait, so how much did you make that day and how much did you make from that day going forward?

Paulette Perhac:
So my supplies were 12, and then I had to get more cards printed, which was like 33. So I was like, "Oh my gosh." So after taking those out, I only made $85 that day, which is not a ton, it's not nothing. What I realized was that I now have given my card out to a bunch of people who know I'm a photographer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Paulette Perhac:
One woman was pregnant, she asked me if I do maternity photos, and then next time what I'll do is just have an A frame sign and stay in one place. Because I think that, that will be more successful, less hustling work for me. I laid down at the end of that day in the park after giving out all my cards, and I was just pooped. I felt really good. I felt like the best kind of exhausted.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you did something.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, I did something.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did something, like you had a problem, and you did something proactive to solve it instead of just kind of living in your panic about money.

Paulette Perhac:
Yeah, and I think self-pity is really dangerous, especially if you work in the arts, because you have to remember like I chose this life, what am I going to do about it? Sitting there and just being like, "Wheh, I don't get paid on time. Wheh, it's hard to be a writer." Not saying I never sit there, but when I'm in that space I realize that it's dangerous.

Bobbi Rebell:
Talk about the lessons that you would share with our listeners. What's the takeaway here?

Paulette Perhac:
So I think the takeaway is knowing that you don't owe a whole lot. So for me low overhead is really important. You know, it's just nice to know that my rent including utilities, is 795, I almost never feel like, "Oh I can't pay that." I also have a book coming out in August, so that's a lot of unpaid marketing work for the book.

Paulette Perhac:
So I think having that plan, like knowing like what would I do today if I needed money and just knowing, so like for example, I'm going to go to a music festival over Memorial Day and I'm going to do it again, taking music festival portraits there. I'm really excited about that, and I think it's going to get better and better, and I'm going to make more and more every time I need to do that.

Paulette Perhac:
And I think eventually I won't need to do it anymore, but it's never been too good to hustle too. Some days you got to hustle, and yeah I have a Cosmo magazine right over there with my name in it. Guess what? I have 15 bucks in my bank account like I need to hustle today.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Paulette, tell us about your money tip.

Paulette Perhac:
So my favorite secret money tip is to join a buy nothing group, which are these groups that are popping up that kind of celebrate trading, and giving and, just offering if you have anything. And so I just got a Le Creuset casserole dish on it yesterday. I got a vacuum last week, and then when I moved into my tiny place, and I had a ton of stuff to give away, I gave away a bunch of stuff. I just got a haircut this morning on the buy nothing group at a place that usually probably costs 100 bucks for a haircut.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, how do they make sure that people don't come on and just take, take, take.

Paulette Perhac:
You could just take, take, take. I haven't seen that problem yet. You know, I think people are willing to give. It's things that they would be giving away anyway, but I have found that the more that I get from it, the more I want to give. And people have offered financial advice, people have offered instruments, and it's just kind of this nice community, especially if you live in a big city, it's a very small area. So now I kind of know my neighbors more.

Bobbi Rebell:
So how do you find these groups?

Paulette Perhac:
So I would google buy nothing, mine is the Facebook group.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is there criteria to get in, or they just let anyone in? How is it? It sounds too good to be true.

Paulette Perhac:
I know, right? Well, I think the thing is I've been in both situations where the things that people have given me have helped me so much to get new furniture or whatever. And so then once I got from the group giving was a pleasure.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you're also so much part of the writer's community. You spend so much of your time and energy giving back to other writers and supporting writers. Tell us about your book that's coming out soon. It's happening.

Paulette Perhac:
So on August 15th, my book, Welcome to the Writer's life is coming out, which is everything I've learned about the writing business, the writing craft and the writing life from being in a writing community. So it's a very crowd sourced book and very much wanting to give back what I've gained from living in a creative community. And it's like freshman orientation for new writers, and a lot of people have benefited from it even if they do business writing or side writing. You don't have to be a full time writer, you just have to want to get joy out of the act of writing.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what have you learned in your years about the business of writing? In other words, you talk about how hard it is to get paid.

Paulette Perhac:
I think if you're in the arts, you are also in sales, which we don't want to say out loud, but you have your leads, you have to bring your value prop, like you have to sell your stuff, and consider yourself a business. I wish that I had said I'm starting a freelance business, rather than I'm going freelance because that's what it is. So you're not ready for operations and marketing and sales and you just get sledge hammered by the reality of like, "Oh I got to go sell today," which is like what you have to do.

Paulette Perhac:
So I've been in it like two years full-time, and I'm just now like, I have a whole share point for my writing business. I'm getting serious because I don't want to fail.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Miss Paulette, how can people find you and follow you and hire you most importantly?

Paulette Perhac:
Yes so send money to ... No. I'm on Twitter @Pauletteperhac. My website is fuckofffund spelled out, .com, so fuckofffund.com, and I'm on Instagram @PauletteJperhac where you can see my bank balances. Just google me and you'll find me, and I have a lot of different projects. Mostly I want to bring people who want to live creative lives. I want to help them make the creative life happen while I figure it out. That's really the thing is like I'm someone who's traditionally bad with money.

Paulette Perhac:
I'm getting better with money and want to live that creative life. I love my life. I love my day to day that this is my life and I want to make it work. So I want to help other people do it too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we love watching your star rise, so thank you so much.

Paulette Perhac:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
There is so much we can all learn from Paulette. I hope you enjoyed that interview. Financial Grownup tip number one. When you are running a business or just the business of your life, keep your overhead low. Paulette lives in a very expensive city, but she makes it work by keeping those costs down and living anything but large. Her apartment, as she mentioned, is a 150 square feet. That's a closet to some people, some very fortunate people, but still some people.

Bobbi Rebell:
She also literally does not pay for things. She's in a buy nothing group. So maybe find a buy nothing group near you. What a great tip. Financial Grownup tip number two, integrate your hustle into things you're already doing. Paulette loves to go to concerts and festivals, so she brings her camera and her business cards and you know what? She makes money even while living her life. Thanks Paulette. We have our first listener episode coming up very soon in the month of June.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us at info@financialgrownup and tell us what the story is and what your everyday money tip would be if you were to be chosen. Thank you for being part of our Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating or review. And of course hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Follow me on Twitter @Bobbirebell, on Instagram @Bobbirebell1, and by the way, thanks for the great feedback on our promo videos. If you would like one for you or for your business, share the video when you see them. We'll be making one for whoever shares the most between now and July, 1st. You could even see them by the way, on our new YouTube channel. Just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, and you will find it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And by the way, soon after we taped Paulette's interview, she did finally get paid by her client, so a happy ending there. A quick reminder, Paulette's book, Welcome to the Writer's Life is available for pre order, so go get it. I think it's safe to say her story successfully brought us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

After an early divorce set Kayla Sloan on an emotional spending binge and into debt, she discovered she could help herself, by working behind the scenes helping a growing market of entrepreneurs- and then becoming one herself.  

In Kayla’s money story you will learn:

-How her marriage, at age 19, had on her financial behavior

-The way Kayla’s desire to spend, contrasted with her husband’s push to save money, and the conflicts that resulted from those differences. 

-Kayla’s emotional spending after the marriage ended after less than a year

-How Kayla managed the cash flow challenges once she was divorced

-The moment she realized she had hit rock bottom, with $10,000 in credit card debt and just $3 in her banking account

-How her total debt moved into six figures by age 21

-The solution she found, that has morphed into a successful entrepreneurial venture

-What virtual assistants do, and how entrepreneurs can tap into that resource

In Kayla’s lesson you will learn:

-How simply filling up her time with an exciting new venture was enough of a distraction to stop the emotional spending

-How Kayla came up with specific ideas for slashing her debt, and what were the most effective techniques

-Why Kayla also prioritized increasing her income, so she would still be able to enjoy responsible spending

In Kayla’s money tip you will learn:

-Why you should not save your fancy stuff (if you have it) for special occasions

-How she made the most of all the fancy wedding presents she did not use during her marriage, including appliances

-How to avoid buying new things, when you already have things in your home that can get the job done, even if they are not what is conventionally expected

-How to tell if you need a virtual assistant, and how to get yourself ready to onboard a VA. 

In My Take you will learn:

-How to learn the value of your time, and decide if you should outsource aspects of your business

-Where to get fancy stuff to use if you did not get it as a gift for a wedding or special occassion like Kayla. 

Episode links:

kaylasloan.com

Twitter @kaylarsloan

Instagram @kaylarsloan

Facebook @krsloan

Kayla's course on How to be a Virtual Assistant and Make $10k a Month

You can buy vintage dinnerware, crystal, silver and other collectables at places like Replacements.com, Chairish.com and even TheRealReal.com

  

After an early divorce set Kayla Sloan on an emotional spending binge and into debt, she discovered she could help herself, by working behind the scenes helping a growing market of entrepreneurs- and then becoming one herself. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn how you can tell when you need a virtual assistant. #Entrepreneur #VirtualAssistant #Debt

---

Transcription

Announcer:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Kayla Sloan:
I went into total rebellion mode. I adopted a pet kitten. I went to the mall during every spare moment I had when I wasn't working or in class, and racked up about $10,000 in credit card debt and had only about $3 in my bank account.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
What to know more about how those super successful entrepreneurs pull off their busy schedules? Well, there's usually someone called a virtual assistant behind the scenes keeping everything going. Stay tuned to learn more about how our guest tapped into that need to pull herself out of an emotional spending cycle.

Bobbi Rebell:
First, a couple of announcements. We are having a little competition here. It is about the video promos that you see on social media letting everyone know about the episodes. We've gotten amazing feedback about them and people asking how can they get one. So if you want one for your business or just for yourself, share them, retweet them, repost them between now and July 1st. Whoever does it the most, we will declare you the winner and we will make you a promo for your business or just for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, we want to welcome the new listeners here and thank returning listeners. So glad you are joining us. We keep the podcast short, usually around 15 minutes. The idea is that we're all really busy and sometimes we only have little bursts where we can listen to a podcast, maybe we're running a quick errand, so we want to make it easy for you. And then, of course, if you have more time -- if you commute or you're running around town and want to listen to podcasts while you're doing other things throughout the day -- you can binge listen to three, four, five episodes for an hour or so and enjoy it that way. So whatever works for you, we're all about being flexible and fitting into your lifestyle.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our fantastic guest. She is tapping into a growing market need, entrepreneurs who need just the right amount of help but without the commitment of hiring someone -- usually in-person, full-time, where they have to get office space for and so on -- because the growing class of often solo entrepreneurs just need a little help sometimes for a project, sometimes a little longer. Kayla Sloan discovered she had a unique talent for tapping into this demand when she found herself with just $3 in her bank account and growing pile of debt, and needed to find a way out. Here is Kayla Sloan. Hey, Kayla Sloan. You're a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kayla Sloan:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am excited to have you on because you have tapped into a niche that is so cool in this ever-emerging gig economy because you help entrepreneurs.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes, I am a consultant in the virtual assistant space, and not only do I train people who want to become virtual assistants, but I also work with business owners who are in need of a virtual assistant. So I help them identify what they can outsource so they can up-level their businesses and find a great virtual assistant that can help them get there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Genius. All right, so let's talk about your money story. Sadly, it is something so many of us can relate to, and that is going through things like a divorce, broken relationships, and the financial impact that they can have. In your case, you had $3 in the bank. You basically started emotionally shopping, but that was in reaction to what was going on in the marriage. Tell us more.

Kayla Sloan:
So this story really started when I was about 19-years old. I got married very young and went off to college. I was attending school and he was working, so I wasn't really earning very much money at that time. I had a student internship that paid about $10 an hour is all. And so since he was earning the majority of the money, it really felt like I needed to ask permission whenever I wanted to spend money on anything. Since he was a saver and I was a spender, there was always a lot of conflict around money in our relationship. At the time, I really felt as if I couldn't purchase anything without asking permission, which is never a fun feeling, especially if you are a spender. So fast forward a few months and we actually ended up getting divorced.

Bobbi Rebell:
The marriage was less than a year, right?

Kayla Sloan:
Yes, just under a year. And we had no kids or property to split up, thank goodness, because that would have made it much more difficult I'm sure. I've talked to a lot of friends who've been in that situation. Anyway, we split up and luckily I was able to take the assets with me that I had brought into the marriage; it's just my vehicle, household belongings, things like that. And even my retirement account was intact.

Bobbi Rebell:
So this is interesting. So you were actually in okay financial shape when the marriage actually split up.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. I really didn't end up that bad off. I was kind of struggling to pay the bills with an immediate cashflow because of only working part-time and suddenly having to pay the rent by myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
But then the trouble came with this emotional shopping, which was really ... This is interesting. It was reactive to the fact that he was so controlling with your finances during the marriage, so then you went the other way.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes, I went the absolute other way. I went into total rebellion mode. I adopted a pet kitten. I went to the mall during every spare moment I had when I wasn't working or in class, and racked up about $10,000 in credit card debt and had only about $3 in my bank account.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my goodness. And of course, then comes graduation time and there's even more debt, correct?

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. Graduation brings on more debt for most people. As you and I both know, student loans are a huge problem. I was lucky in only having about $8,000 of student loans when I graduated, making a total of $18,000. But then I turned right around at age 21, right after graduating, and bought a house for $120,000, so I really was feeling that financial pinch after I graduated.

Bobbi Rebell:
So total debt ... I'm trying to do the math here. $140,000?

Kayla Sloan:
Yeah, pretty close. Pretty close.

Bobbi Rebell:
At age 21, with income of about 10 bucks an hour still?

Kayla Sloan:
At that time, I did land a full-time job after graduation, so my take home salary was probably about $25,000 plus benefits.

Bobbi Rebell:
What I like about this story is that you turned things around basically by starting to think like an entrepreneur. So tell us, fill us in on the rest of what happened.

Kayla Sloan:
Yeah. So I started looking for ways to earn extra income and stumbled upon the world of freelance writing and virtual assistant work. And virtual assistants are basically people who work behind the scenes and help entrepreneurs grow and maintain their businesses. And so I started doing this because I love organizing things and helping people create systems, and really working through some of those problems that entrepreneurs typically struggle with. And after doing it on the side for about 12 months, I was earning the same amount from my part-time business as I was making at my full-time job. So I actually quit my job.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love that. And now you are growing that into a full-blown consulting firm, which is amazing and something that so many entrepreneurs really need these days.

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. I am so excited about this. So I started training people who wanted to be virtual assistants, but then I realized there was a need on the other side for connecting entrepreneurs with those virtual assistants. I find that a lot of business owners struggle with finding someone they can trust, someone who's already trained and knows how to step in and get to work, and so that's where I try to fill that void.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about what the lesson is for our listeners from this story because you basically were able to stop the emotional spending and then turn that into your motivation to start your own business and basically control your income flow. So what is the lesson for our listeners? And especially, how do you stop that emotional shopping?

Kayla Sloan:
Oh my gosh, stopping the emotional shopping can be so, so hard. But for me it was really about finding something else to fill up my free time, which ended up being my business.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it all came together. So for listeners, what can they do? After shopping, shopping, shopping, how do you come up with something? Do you have a technique? Is it just surfing the internet? What was it that got you this idea?

Kayla Sloan:
Yeah. My first ideas did come from surfing the internet. I did some of those classic things like cutting up the credit cards and putting the rest on ice and all of those kinds of things. And they sound crazy, but they work.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you did those things, and then you just decided that you had to up your income?

Kayla Sloan:
You know, you can only be so frugal. There's only so many things you can cut from your budget, especially if you start to feel deprived. And as a spender, I liked to spend money. I liked my lifestyle, so I decided that I also had to find a way to increase my income because I didn't want to cut anything else from my budget.

Bobbi Rebell:
So your money tip has to do actually with kind of a splurge with things that you already have, which actually is very relatable for many people who get divorced and have a lot of wedding presents that maybe are still unopened, not that I would know anything about that kind of thing. But a lot of times, we get fancy stuff for our weddings or graduations or all kinds of special occasions, and then it just sits there because there's never an occasion that's good enough for this stuff.

Kayla Sloan:
Exactly. That's exactly what I found was, I was going through my divorce, I had all these beautiful that I had received for my wedding, and since I was super broke I didn't have any money to spend. So my tip and the way I that I decided to treat myself, rather than spending is that I started using things I already had. So instead of saving my nice dishes that I got for my wedding and using cheap ones every day, I decided I was going to just use the pretty ones. They make me feel happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
And why not? We're all so busy saving for these magical events that are going to happen, and then we don't ever use all this stuff that we have.

Kayla Sloan:
Exactly. And it just sits there and collects dust, and there's no point in that.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what are some other examples of things that you used that people can relate to?

Kayla Sloan:
I said my nice dishes, and then I also used all of those kitchen appliances that never get brought out. And I decided I was going to make some of my favorite meals instead of saving them for a special occasion or saving them when I had guests over and things like that. I'm a big foodie, so those are probably two of the biggest things for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me ask you just quickly, how do people know if they need a virtual assistant? Because I think that's something that confuses people, is where is the tipping point where you're at the point where you need somebody, and are there certain things to look for?

Kayla Sloan:
Yes. So the first sign that you need a virtual assistant is that things start slipping through the cracks. If you find yourself as an entrepreneur or business owner with more things to do than time to do them, then you definitely need to bring someone on. For entrepreneurs, it can be difficult because you don't want to bring someone on and get stuck paying them if you have busy seasons and slow seasons, so a virtual assistant can really help fill that void because you can kind of pay as you go; pay for a certain number of hours per month, and then if you have extra work, you can buy some more. So it's a lot easier than hiring an employee for a set number of hours no matter what.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what are some specific things that people can outsource to a VA?

Kayla Sloan:
A lot of people start with social media because they find that social media is something that takes up a lot of their time and can easily be outsourced to a virtual assistant. I know a lot of other things are blog post research; sometimes they'll bring on someone to do outlines and things like that. And then also a lot of people who have podcasts use virtual assistants, hint hint.

Bobbi Rebell:
For what kinds of things?

Kayla Sloan:
They will help with show note creation, transcription. They can help with, again, social media when it comes to your podcast as well, so a lot of different things.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what do VAs typically run? What's the range that people would expect to pay?

Kayla Sloan:
For a U.S.-based virtual assistant -- which I think is important to make that clarification -- you're probably going to be looking at as little as $15, but probably as much as $40 or more if you have someone who's very experienced.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more about where people can find you and the kind of things that you are doing, and how people can use your services.

Kayla Sloan:
Sure. My main website is at kaylasloan.com, and that is where you can find out more information about how to work with me to get connected with a virtual assistant. Or if you're wanting to be a virtual assistant, we can connect there as well. And I'm also all over social media.

Bobbi Rebell:
And your handles?

Kayla Sloan:
Are all the same: @kayla-r-sloan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kayla R. Sloan, very important. Well, thank you so much, Kayla Sloan. This has been absolutely wonderful, and congratulations on your growing business.

Kayla Sloan:
Thank you so much. I hope you have a great day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, so here's my take. I love what Kayla is doing for entrepreneurs and for the virtual assistants that are so important to their success. Financial Grownup tip number one: consider outsourcing. Whether or not you are an entrepreneur, think about the value of your time. If you're running a business, maybe you're running a household, consider the best use of your time. Outsourcing may be hiring a babysitter if you're a parent trying to grow a business from home, or if you're an entrepreneur trying to do everything. Sometimes you're better off doubling down on your strength, say sales, or anything that directly has to do with your clients, and it may make sense to have a VA do things that are more administrative in nature, like the billing. Weigh the cost. The great thing about a VA is that you can often hire them on a project basis, so you're not locked in the way you would be if you hired a full-time assistant.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: I love Kayla's money tip to use what you have, even if it's super fancy. But here's my tip if you don't have all that fancy stuff but want to have the fancy stuff and maybe don't have the budget or want to spend the money to go and buy it in the store. You see all that fancy wedding gifts like China and crystal, well a lot of people don't really want it, or they inherited it and they want to sell it, they get rid of it, they just don't use it. So you can often get great stuff, fancy stuff, far less than the everyday stuff if you know where to look. Who doesn't like to feel fancy, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
So some sites to check out: Replacements.com -- they sell vintage and current dinnerware, crystal, silver, and other collectables. Also take a look at Chairish, like sitting on a chair, chairish.com. You can find vintage dinnerware at really amazing prices. They sell a ton of other stuff, including chairs, but also other furniture and vintage stuff; really nice stuff. I spotted a vintage Hermes dinner plate set that retailed for $2,000 and it was down to just 950 bucks. The Real Real, which is known for selling designer handbags and clothing, they also -- a lot of people don't realize this -- they also have things like dishes and serving stuff; high-end names like George Jensen, Tiffany, Vernadeau, all at massive discounts. So check those out if you like the higher end stuff instead of going for the everyday stuff that you may see in, whatever, the mall stores. I don't want to name names, but the everyday stores. You guys know what I'm talking about.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to all of you for being part of our growing Financial Grownup community. If you're enjoying the show, consider leaving a rating and even a review on Apple podcasts. I know it seems like it's going to be really difficult, but it only takes a couple of minutes and it is really appreciated, and makes a big difference in helping other people discover the show. And of course, hit that subscribe button to make sure you don't miss any upcoming episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1; you can also DM me there. And then don't forget, if you want a custom video like the promos that we do for the show, join the competition. Share the videos when you see them. You can even see them now on the YouTube channel that we have set up, so just search for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell, that channel on YouTube, and you can see the promos there and check them out that way.

Bobbi Rebell:
We have our first listener episode coming up in June. If you want to be on the show and have a great money story to share, email us info@financialgrownup.com. Tell us what money story you would share, and what everyday money tip you would like to share with our audience, and we will be in touch if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you to Kayla Sloan for sharing her story. We'll be watching how her business grows along with all the entrepreneurs that she is working with. So thank you, Kayla, for helping us all get one step closer to being Financial Grownup.

Announcer:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

When Brandless Co-Founder and CEO Tina Sharkey turned 30, she  didn’t want a birthday party- she just wanted the cake. Specifically a photograph of a walking birthday cake with legs that was by artist Laurie Simmons. Little did she know the significant role that work would play in her life. 

In Tina’s money story you will learn: 

-How Tina was able to re-direct her mom's budget for a birthday party to a work of art she had been eyeing

-Why the art meant so much to Tina

-The reason art is both a passion and an investment for Tina

-How she applies her art-buying philosophy to her entrepreneurial ventures

-What inspired Tina to start collecting art as a teenager

-How the art now has multi-generational significance

In Tina’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of commemorating milestones in life

-Creative ways to marking important moments including crowdsourcing

-Why she believes investing in significant items will have long term impact

In Tina’s money tip you will learn:

-Her grandmothers strategy for getting discounts, when things are not on sale

-The specific things tina’s grandmother would say

-Tina’s philosophy of never being afraid to ask

-How to get online discounts, even when you are in a store

-The new way Brandless is offering free credits to it’s consumers

In my take you will learn:

-Techniques to re-direct sincere, well intentioned gifts that miss the mark just like Tina did

-What to do if you are giving a gift and don’t know what to get someone

-The value of giving a memorable gift that will hold the test of time

-Why we should re-think the value of the brands we buy

EPISODE LINKS:

Learn more about Brandless on their website: Brandless.com

Follow Tina and Brandless!

Instagram: @tinasharkey @brandlesslife

Twitter @Tinasharkey @brandless

Facebook: Tina Sharkey  Brandlesslife

 

Here is a link to the fabulous birthday cake photo Tina bought!

Learn more about Laurie Simmons http://www.lauriesimmons.net/

As Tina mentioned, her art hangs at museums including Moma

 

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell. The following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money abroad built by the brands behind Skype, TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad, so don't get stung by a bad exchange rate or sneaky fees, join the 2 million people who are already saving with TransferWise. Test it out for free at TransferWise.com/podcast, or download the app, it is the wise way to send money.

Tina Sharkey:
That piece of art has since appreciated tremendously in value, probably 100 times, in fact, I even found out that that photograph is now hanging in MoMA. All the art that I've ever bought have been appreciated tremendously in value, and I've only bought things that I thought were real investment pieces.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
That was Brandless CEO Tina Sharkey talking about a piece of art that has been very meaningful in her life and not just because its financial value has literally skyrocketed as in it's in museums, people. But first some quick housekeeping notes before we get to Tina's interview. First, welcome if you're joining us for the first time, and welcome back if you are returning. If you enjoy this show, please share with someone in your life that you think would also enjoy the podcast. For those of you who have spotted our video promos, want to win a custom one? Pretty easy. We are having a little experimental competition from now until July 1st, if you see them, share them on social media, share on Facebook, retweet, repost, all that good stuff. The winner of the competition will get a free custom video that could be for your business, for yourself. We're going to look at who is the most active in sharing those videos.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, this a very special episode, we are at episode 50, time flies. I'm so excited about this guest for this milestone show. Tina Sharkey, she heads up one of the most buzzed about brands out there, Brandless. So named because they take out what they call the brand tax sale, so sell everything for just $3. $3, you heard me right, they're pulling it off major retail disruption happening. Not such a surprise though, when you hear a little bit about their co-founder and CEO Tine Sharkey. She also co-founded the women's media site, iVillage. She headed up BabyCenter, so much more. Here is Tina Sharkey.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Tina Sharkey, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Tina Sharkey:
I'm so psyched to be here. Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are the head of one of my favorite new companies, Brandless named. You have so many accolades. Ad Age startup of the year, Fast Company Most Innovative Company of the Year, I mean, we could basically spend the whole podcast talking about how loved your new company is. Tell us a little bit about what makes Brandless so special.

Tina Sharkey:
I think it probably, just starting with the name. I think the name definitely catches people off guard because they think "Wait, are you anti-brand? Are you not a brand?" I'm like "Wait a second, we are unapologetically a brand." We're just reimagining what it means to be one, one that's built in total collaboration with the community that we serve. One that its core belief system is about scaling kindness. One that's all about truce and trust and transparency, and most importantly, we're hoping people will live more and brand less. At Brandless, everything that we make at Brandless.com is non-GMO food, mostly organic, vegan, gluten free, clean beauty, EPA Safer Choice certified cleaning. Everything that we sell at Brandless is $3, even in our first 10 months of life, we feel like we're really making a dent in democratizing access to better stuff at fair prices, and we live by the belief system that who says better needs to cost more? We want to make better everything for everyone. That's what we do at Brandless.com, and we're having a great time doing it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I can't believe it's only been 10 months, I feel like it's already changed our culture so much. All right. Speaking of culture, art, let's talk about art, because that has to do with your money story.

Tina Sharkey:
It does. I am not an artist, but I definitely see the world in pictures. There's an expression in French called [foreign language 00:04:37], and [foreign language 00:04:39] means struck by lightning, but the French interpretation of that is like love at first sight. When you say to someone in French, like "I had a [foreign language 00:04:47]," it means you feel in love with someone at first sight. That's how I've always admired art, and loved art, and found art, was that, I admire a lot of art, but there's times when it's like a [foreign language 00:04:58], where I feel like "Oh my goodness, that is like needs to be in my life." Because, at the end of the day, we don't ever really own art, you just take care of it while you get to have it, because it should withstand the test of time. I've been collecting art with every saved penny, nickel and dime since I'm a teenager.

Bobbi Rebell:
You wanted to share the story of your first big piece of art, which you got because you were actually, your mom was going to throw a party for you, tell us the story.

Tina Sharkey:
Yeah, yeah. When I was turning 30, my mom wanted to make a special party for me. I said "You know what, mom? That's so kind and generous of you. I love that. But what I really want is I have my eye on this piece of art, and there's no way I can afford it. If you wouldn't mind, maybe we could just do a small like family dinner or something, whatever budget that you were going to spend on the party, if you would help me towards this piece of art, then it would be something that I could have forever." It was actually a photograph of a walking birthday cake, it's like that giant, giant birthday cake on legs, by the artist Laurie Simmons. It's like a birthday present, because I'll have my birthday every day by looking at this photograph.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my gosh. I love it.

Tina Sharkey:
That was many years ago. That piece of art has since probably 100 times in value. In fact, I even found out that that photograph is now hanging in MoMA.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. It's something that you love, and it ended up being an investment as well.

Tina Sharkey:
Yes. All the art that I've ever bought, not that I've sold any. Actually, that's not true, I think I've sold two pieces. But all the art that I've ever bought have been appreciated tremendously in value. I've only bought things that I thought were real investment pieces.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you approach art as an investment first or purely from love? Or do they naturally go hand-in-hand with you?

Tina Sharkey:
I think it's that [foreign language 00:06:51]. It's like first it's about love, and really, really feeling like "Oh my goodness. I can't sleep." Like art you don't buy like shoes or clothes, it's not something you just make an instant decision on, it's something that's considered, because you have to live with it for the rest of your life, or you know, that's the idea. When I first see it, and then I think about it, I think about how I would live with it, how would it be part of my own family legacy, my own family history. That particular one, the story is even deeper in that my son was late in his verbal skills, he was sort of a running toddler before he was really forming sentences. But the only two words that he had were happy birthday.

Tina Sharkey:
Happy birthday meant everything at that time. This photograph has so much meaning to me, because it was a picture of a birthday cake. Charlie was saying happy birthday all the time, and my mom gave me the money that she was going to spend on my birthday party, and I put this photograph in my will to give to my son, because it always reminded me that his first two words were happy birthday.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the takeaway for the listeners. How can they apply this to their own lives?

Tina Sharkey:
I think the way to apply to your own life, not everybody loves art, not everybody wants to invest in art, not everybody has the home, or the walls, or wants to be in that way, but thinking about when there is a milestone in your life that you want commemorate, how can you use that milestone to really do something that either is an experience, or something that you can both love and express your joy, but also have something that can withstand the test of time. Not just be like if you're going to have that great bottle of champagne or whatever it is. Do you really want that or would you like something that you can have forever, for a longer period of time? Thinking about milestones and passion, but also investments and time, because those things can withstand the test of time.

Tina Sharkey:
Taking that longer term view and commemorating those milestones with savings, or with opportunities, or with crowdsourcing a gift rather than having everybody get you something small, maybe you put it in a pool together to invest in something that's really going to be something that you're going to have for a long, long time to come.

Bobbi Rebell:
What a great idea. You also have a great idea that I totally buy into for your money tip that you're going to share.

Tina Sharkey:
This is great. My grandmother, we called her the goddess of goodness, and she was seriously the nicest person you ever met in your whole life. But, she did not believe in paying retail. Wherever she went, it didn't matter whether it was the finest boutique on Madison Avenue, or TJ Maxx, or Target, she would always say "Is this in line for reduction?" I swear to you, nine out of 10 times, she would always get like a 10% discount, or they said "Oh, we have a sale coming up, why don't we'll give you the sale price now." Or "We'll let you know when this goes on sale." Or "You know what? We're happy to get that, given that you're buying two things, we'll give you the second one at a discount."

Tina Sharkey:
The money tip there is never be afraid to ask. There is no harm in asking. Likely, there is a discount to be had. One of the tips that my grandmother didn't know that I now use, which is very much in line with that, is that many physical retail stores also have catalogs or also have websites. Often, when you sign up at their websites, they'll say "If you sign up and give us your email address, we'll give you 10% off," or something like that. You can say to them in the retail store "Do you offer that discount upon signing up for your email on your website?" If they say yes, then you can often say "Would you mind applying that discount if I do that here, right now?" They often will give you that right there at the retail store.

Bobbi Rebell:
So smart. Another way to save money is something happening at Brandless right now. You have exciting stuff coming up, tell us.

Tina Sharkey:
We do. We do. Just less than a year into our life, we are just recently rolling out our referral program. If you have an account on Brandless, which costs nothing to set up, and you share Brandless with friends and the discrete code that you can get in your account page, you can give a friend a $6-credit towards building their Brandless box. When they use it, you get a $6-credit to building your next Brandless box. That referral, when you think about all the people in your network, and the fact that everyone deserves to have better and everyone deserves to have better fair prices, you can give them a running start, and for every friend that uses it, that gives you more Brandless dollars to use towards your Brandless box.

Bobbi Rebell:
Basically, free money. Thank you, Tina. Tell us more about where people can find out more about you and of course about Brandless.com, but also you.

Tina Sharkey:
If you want to find out about me, you can follow me on Twitter @TinaSharkey, you can follow me on Instagram @tinasharkey, you can follow me on Facebook, but I would say the most important thing, because it's not about me, is really go to Brandless.com and tell us about you, join our communities at Brandless on Facebook, join our community and follow us @Brandlesslife on Instagram, because it's not about us, it's really about you, and we want to highlight and spotlight and share the incredible stories of the awesome people in our community. If you have recipes you want to share, if you have stories you want to share, if there's a favorite Brandless product that you love, or if there's a product you'd like to see that you think should be Brandless, let us know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great. I cannot recommend the website highly enough, it's very interactive, there's so much great content there. You will end up enjoying yourself spending lots of time there, and time well spent. Thank you so much, Tina Sharkey, this has been wonderful.

Tina Sharkey:
Thanks, Bobbi, have the best day.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, friends. That interview let me feeling pretty empowered as a consumer, and excited about the changes happening in the retail landscape. But here's my take on what Tina had to say about her experiences. Financial Grownup tip number one, we all have so many well-intentioned gifts, they're the things we just don't want, the gift-giver was really sincere, and we don't want to return them, or we give them for of course a lot of reasons, mainly you just feel bad about it, if you feel ungrateful, but you don't want it, and then it sits in your house forever. The truth is, when I give a gift, and I think when most people give gifts, they want it to be something that the receiver really wants. We don't want to miss the mark.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sometimes, it pays to be a little bit creative. This is just one idea, it can be tricky, but something to think about. One of my favorite presents ever is a very special Judith Ripka ring that my husband got for me when we were first dating. He was the one that picked it out, he went to the store, he made the choice, it was on him. However, that was after one of my friends discretely let him know the kinds of things that I would really like. He had some guidance. Because of that, he was able to get something that I just absolutely love and it's just perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tina's mom was going to spend a whole lot of money on a party that frankly Tina just wasn't that into, what a waste of money that would've been. Thankfully, Tina spoke up. In the end, she was able to get a piece of art that she loved. It reminds her of her mother, it reminds her of that birthday, it has wonderful associations, it even is multi-generational now because of the way that her son has interacted with it. Even though she doesn't plan to sell it, the reality is she could, and she says it's gone up maybe 100 times in value. It was also a good investment. Of course, had she had the party, the money would've gone poof for something, again, she didn't really want.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Rethink how much you're paying just to buy brand names. Tina of course does have an interest in pointing this out, it is totally true, and we're talking about that many of us mindlessly buy brand names. Think of things like medication where we have reservations about buying the generic version, which by law, literally has to have the same ingredients, and yet we, myself included, find ourselves often paying up for brand names, especially everyday household goods. We love our brands. But, just like Tina redirected her birthday party money, maybe think about it this way, if you redirect the money that you would save by avoiding paying the brand tax, and add that all up, think about what you could now afford. Just a reminder, I will always tell you if I have any affiliation, any ties to a company. I have no financial affiliation or ties to Brandless, I'm just a fan.

Bobbi Rebell:
Also, sticking to the birthday theme, I feel like we're celebrating a birthday here, the show turning 50 episodes. I can't begin to thank all of you for your support. Time goes so fast. Anyway, to learn more about the show, go to BobbiRebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. You can also sign up for our newsletter, we don't send it out very often. I believe there's just too much email out there, so I try to be careful with it. But when we do send it, we make it meaningful. Hopefully you believe it's worth your time and enjoy it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Continue to keep in touch. I am on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, you can also DM me there, feedback, suggestions for the show, all that good stuff. On Facebook, my page is Bobbi Rebell. If you like the show, please take a moment to rate and review on Apple Podcast. Tina Sharkey is a total boss. I don't know about you, but I feel like I'm going to see little legs behind birthday cakes for a little while. Imagining it, I can't get the image out of my head. She emailed me a copy of the photo, so I'm going to try to paste that into the show notes. I don't know if it'll work, but I'm going to try ... I think it'll work. I'm going to try. You will get a kick out of the picture, if not, I'll certainly find a way to send a link so that you guys can see the image that she is talking about. Thank you, Tina Sharkey from Brandless for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Jen Hemphill and her husband believe in supporting family, but when the author of Her Money Matters, and the host of the podcast of the same name, was asked to lend money to a relative, she realized it would come at a cost to her own financial well being. 

In Jen’s money story you will learn:

-How she and her husband have different approaches to helping family financially

-The role emotions play in decisions about lending and/or giving to family

-The impact Jen’s upbringing and her parents attitudes towards money played in her approach to lending and gifting money to family

-How communication issues can impact financial decisions

In Jen’s money lesson you will learn:

-Jen’s advice in how to respond when family needs financial help

-How you can prepare to be able to help family when it is needed

-How to stay on track with your own goals, even if family needs help

-Why Jen feels it is always better to gift than to lend to family

In Jen’s money tip you will learn:

-The specific strategy she uses to separate funds and save for goals

-How she applies her strategy of separate funds when it comes to every day savings at places like the grocery store

-How to use apps to facilitate using her strategy to save money

In my take you will learn:

-What to keep in mind when friends and relatives ask you for help

-Strategies to have money available for that purpose

-How to say no when helping financially is not in your budget

 

EPISODE LINKS

Get Jen’s new book!

Her Money Matters: The missing truth from traditional money advice

Follow Jen!

Twitter: @jenhemphilll

IG: @jenhemphill

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/jennifer.hemphill

 

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from Transferwise, the cheaper way to send money abroad, built by the brand behind Skype. Transferwise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Don't get sting by a bad exchange rate, or sneaky fees, join the two billion people who are already saving with Transferwise. Test it out for free at transferwise.come/podcast, or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.

Jen Hemphill:
We lent him the money, or actually gave him the money, and never saw it back. We had debt. We had things that we needed to pay for, things that we needed to purchase, and it also diminished our abilities to have that extra money to pay the debt that we had. Right? It was a very conflicting time.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Thanks for joining us for this addition of the Financial Grownup Podcast. Before we get to our amazing guest, I am getting great feedback from all of you about these video promotions that we have been running to support the show, and you're asking me a bunch of questions, so I'm going to answer a few of them here. The first question everyone is asking me is, who is making them for me, who did I hire? I didn't hire anyone, I'm doing them myself. As you guys know, I love to learn new things, different technology, different programs, so I taught myself how to do them, and I'm having a great time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Second question, I keep being asked is, where can I get them made for myself? Well, I am not going to go into the video promotion business, I'm just going to be doing it for Financial Grownup, at least for now, never say never. But in answer to the request, I am going to run a fun contest. For the next month or so, until early July. The first week in July, let's say, we are going to have a competition, where if you see the video promotions for Financial Grownup on social media share them, and whoever shares the most by the first week in July, I will make a video promotion for you. It can be for your business, it can be for an event that's coming up, it can just be for you, it can be a birthday message for a friend, or for your child. Whatever it is, anything reasonable we will make a fun video, and that will be my gift to you guys.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Onto our guest, Jen Hemphill. She is the host of the podcast, Her Money Matters, and the author of a new book by the same name. She is a big believer in helping family, but as a money expert she's also aware that sometimes those asked to give money may not really be in the best position themselves to be the ones giving. What do you do? Here is Her Money Matters, Jen Hemphill ... Jen Hemphill, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Jen Hemphill:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited to hear more about your new book, Her Money Matters, which of course same title as your amazing podcast. Tell us just briefly about it, and we'll talk more about it after your story.

Jen Hemphill:
Sure. Basically, the whole premise of the book is to give more of a holistic approach to personal finance. It's not a book that's going to tell you how to budget, how to get out of debt, but really it's about the missing pieces that a lot of people don't talk about, because all we hear about save more, spend less, and get out of debt, but there's the emotional component of money that I dig a lot into, as well. It's really more the missing pieces, that is really not talked about, in general.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I want to get to your money story, because it has to do a lot with emotion, and the feelings behind when you gift, or lend money to friends, and family, because they can be sometimes the same things, sometimes lending becomes a gift, and you and your husband have very different approaches to it. Tell us about the first time this came up.

Jen Hemphill:
Well, the first time this came up was when we were first married, so this was almost, we'll be married almost 18 years, so this was-

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations.

Jen Hemphill:
Our first, oh, thank you. This was our first year in our marriage. We're a military family, we were stationed in Clovis Air Force Base in New Mexico.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Jen Hemphill:
First year married, we were really still trying to get to know each other, all the newlywed stuff. He got a call from my brother-in-law, and he, my brother-in-law apparently had hit a financial hiccup, and he reached out to his brother for help. Now, I grew up in a household that was very giving. My parents literally grew up in Columbia, and they always helped people. There was always people that would stay at our home, with their family, or some friends. My parents were always givers, even when they didn't have to give. Right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Jen Hemphill:
I saw that a lot growing up. I knew the financial struggles that they dealt with.

Bobbi Rebell:
We're they dealing with financial struggles because they gave more than they could afford?

Jen Hemphill:
I don't think it was that-

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jen Hemphill:
That might have been a component, but not all of the components. Right? But it was partial, because I saw them giving, and giving, but they were still trying to get their money stuff together. Right? I saw a lot of that. When I met my husband, one of the things that I love about him is his big heart. He is definitely a giver. He's also a spender.

Bobbi Rebell:
Are you the saver to a spender, by the way?

Jen Hemphill:
Yeah. I'm also a saver.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jen Hemphill:
When my brother-in-law reached out to him, we had the conversation, granted again, we were newlyweds. We were trying to figure this thing out, and I can't remember the exact $1.00 amount, but it was more than $500.00.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you know what kind of situation it was? Was it like a medical operation? Was it a business situation?

Jen Hemphill:
It was behind on bills, collections. Those type of things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your husband wanted to give him a loan, not a gift a loan?

Jen Hemphill:
Well, he told me a loan, but I knew him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Jen Hemphill:
He's a giver. He's not going to expect it back. Where I was more, in my mind, a lender. If you're asking us to lend you money, I'm like, “Okay. You're going to pay us back.” We had debt. We had things that we needed to pay for. Things that we needed to purchase. Literally, at that time we just had our checking account, and our savings account and literally whatever savings went into our savings account, so it was the emergency account, it was when we overspent, it was for big purchases, so everything that was needed that wasn't in our checking account came from the emergency fund. It literally got depleted fast, and it also diminished our abilities to have that extra money to pay the debt that we had. Right? It was a very conflicting time. We had this conversation-

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:07:19]-

Jen Hemphill:
We lent him the money, or actually gave him the money, and then never saw it back.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. The communication to him, was it, “We are lending you this money,” and he didn't pay it back, or was it, “We are gifting you this money.”

Jen Hemphill:
That's a good question.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good luck with it.

Jen Hemphill:
Because my husband had that conversation with him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. We can't really blame your brother-in-law, because for all we know he was told it was a gift, to be fair.

Jen Hemphill:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson, now, 18 years later, you guys happily still together, what is the lesson for our listeners? How would that go now? Would you put your foot down more? What would happen now? What do you think listeners should do? Should they be in a similar situation?

Jen Hemphill:
What we've done is, we included this in our budget, so we set some money aside in a different account, and whenever a family member needs help, we just look at what's in that account, so that way it doesn't really disrupt what we're trying to do financially, and the goals that we're trying to achieve. There's a designated amount that goes in there every month, and currently has just been to help grand mom with some bills, and that's what we work with.

Bobbi Rebell:
It sounds like you've basically come to terms with you're just going to gift it.

Jen Hemphill:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
None of this lending to family, it doesn't work for you.

Jen Hemphill:
Yes, because then emotionally that's either get upset, “Oh, my gosh, we said we were going to lend it, we never got it back,” so I've learned and grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right.

Jen Hemphill:
Over the years to really, when it comes to family, and friends, and when it deals with money, it's just a gift.

Bobbi Rebell:
But your money tip, your every day money tip is also about separating out funds, that seems to be a common theme for you-

Jen Hemphill:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
You want to talk about what you do at the grocery store, and how you can use apps for this.

Jen Hemphill:
Yeah. Basically, my money tip is, what we tend to do, let's say we're at the grocery store, and maybe we have some coupons, always strike up a sale, and we're winning. We celebrate, “Yes. I've saved X amount this trip,” but what's important here is, yes, we can celebrate the $20.00, or $10.00, whatever that amount is that we saved, but what are we going to do with that money? Because we're missing out if we're just celebrating it, that we saved that money, but we're not doing anything with it.

Jen Hemphill:
Literally, we have the bank up on our phone. Right? And with so many people having smart phones, you can download your bank app, and whatever that amount of money that you save, transfer it to your savings, or transfer it to pay off some debt. Whatever you deem is best in your situation. But doing that versus just leaving it in there, you know it disappears. That money doesn't have a job, if you will, it just disappears. We've seen it time and again. I know I've experienced it, I'm sure you Bobbi have experienced it yourself.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. All right. Let's talk more about your book. I'm so excited for you.

Jen Hemphill:
The book, oh, my goodness. The subtitle of the book is, The Missing Truths From Traditional Money Advice, so when we think of traditional money advice, we think about, we really hear, “Save more, spend less, and get out of debt,” but I know from my own experience, I had the financial books, I've read those financial books, I applied what the experts told me, and I was still finding myself stuck. In the book, I really share the lessons that I learned, and what I found out that really kept me stuck after doing all the things right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Where can people find you?

Jen Hemphill:
Thank you. You can find all about me at jenhemphill.com. You can find the book there, or you can just go on Amazon, and just type in, Her Money Matters. It also has a companion workbook, because-

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.

Jen Hemphill:
My audience wanted worksheets, and so they ask, I provide. Each chapter has some questions, some worksheets for you to work with, because essentially I want that to be your cheat sheet. If you're feeling stuck, go back to that work, and go back to that workbook, if you buy the workbook, and refer to that, because that's going to help you get out of that funk that you're feeling.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that balance between emotional and then very specific practical tools. It's great. Thank you, Jen.

Jen Hemphill:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jen's story was a reminder that family really can be everything, however you define family. We should bend over backwards to help out the people that we care about in our lives. In Jen's case even though her brother-in-law did not pay back that loan, as time went on the asks for financial help from family did go down.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip, number one, remember it's hard for people to ask you for help, so factor that in when deciding what to do when someone comes to you asking for help. If you are able to help them with their financial troubles, it's usually a better idea to just give them money. If you lend them money, it becomes yet another thing that they need to pay back in a very stressful time. Of course, it can also put stress on your relationship with them. They might avoid you. They might feel like you're judging them, if they buy something. It's better to just keep it clean, give them the money. You know what? Someday you may be in a position where you need their help, and they'll be there for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip, number two. Jen talked about compartmentalizing money. Setting funds aside in different accounts for different purposes. This can be a great way to deliberately save for certain things like a slush fund for relatives that need help. Another thing that I have found can make a lot of sense to do is to put a certain amount of money, or allocate a certain amount of money, maybe on an annual basis to support friends, charities, causes that they care about.

Bobbi Rebell:
That way when people ask for you to support whatever they're involved in, it might be a charity run, or some other fundraising effort, a benefit, you can take the money out of that fund, and if at some point in the year, I mean, you got to be real, here, the funds could run out, you can tell them, “Look, I've completed my giving for the year, but I will send a donation in January.” People understand. Your resources are not unlimited even if your heart is.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you have not hit the subscribe button, please do so that way you won't miss any upcoming episodes of Financial Grownup, and of course you score extra bonus points with us if you rate and review the show. That way other people can learn about it, and be part of our community. Our first listener episode is coming up in June, if you want to be considered to be on an upcoming episode of Financial Grownup, email the money story, and the money tip that you would like to share to info@financialgrownup.com. We are going to see how it goes, and hopefully we'll be doing this once a month.

Bobbi Rebell:
A reminder, if you want to see the promo videos, they are sprinkled throughout our social media, and also we are putting them on our new YouTube channel, which is Financial Grownup, so you can easily just check them out there. You can also see our episodes there, you can listen to them I should say on YouTube as well. In social media, I am on Instagram, at Bobbi Rebell one, on Twitter at Bobbi Rebell, and on Facebook, Bobbi Rebell. Definitely DM me, give me feedback, let me know what you think about the show, let me know guests you want to see, and let me know which promo videos you like the best.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course, speaking of the promo videos, as I said at the top of the show, if you want a promo video for yourself, share them, retweet them, repost them, and whoever does the most social sharing between now and the beginning, the first week of July, I'm going to make a promo video for you. Jen's story was a great one, all about doing our best for our family, and our friends, and the people that we care about in our lives, such an important topic, so thank you, Jen, for helping us get one step closer to being Financial Grownups ... Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited, and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

 

An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. 

 

In Kristin’s money story you will learn:

-How she made her first art sale while working in advertising

-The hashtags she used to attract a buyer to her work

-The price of the first piece of art she sold

-Why so much of Kristin’s work is tied to money and consumerism

-Her take on millennials attitudes about money and materialism

-Kristin’s background and how it led her to her career as an artist

-How the art world works when artists use galleries, versus when they self-promote on social media

-How you can buy art that is affordable

In Kristin’s money lesson you will learn:

-Her advice on how to follow your dreams, and still pay your bills

-Ways to use social media to leverage your skills and the content you create

-Pricing strategies for art

In Kristin’s money tip you will learn:

-How having the right basic ingredients at home will help you make more meals at home, and save money

-Kristin’s favorite 5 foods to have on hand

-Where Kristin goes for her recipes

In My Take you will learn:

-How to buy art as an investment

-When to use a gallery and when to seek out an artist directly

-How to use social media to research and find art to buy

-Why insurance needs should always be considered when you buy art

You will also learn how you can win a promotional video, like the ones for financial grownup for your own business- or just for yourself. 

EPISODE LINKS

Kristin Simmons website: https://www.kristinsimmonsart.com/

The name of the arts gala she is performing at on June 7th is ChaShaMa: https://www.chashama.org/event/gala2018

This summer Kristin’s art can be seen at Galerie Mourlot (https://mourloteditions.com/) as part of the Hamptons art fair (http://artmarkethamptons.com/) in early July. 

Research and buy art on some of Kristin’s favorite sites:

Mourlot editions

Wide Walls

Art Space

Paddle8.com

Also mentioned: RealSimple.com

Follow Kristin!

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/kristinsimmonsart/?hl=en

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/kristinsimmonsart/?ref=bookmarks

Twitter https://twitter.com/Kristins_Art

LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristin-simmons-07596031/

An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn which hashtags to use to attract buyers on instagram and how you can follow your dreams while still paying the bills. #MoneyTips #Hashtags #Instagram #AttractBuyers

An unexpected instagram connection helped New York City artist Kristin Simmons pivot from her start in advertising to a full-time, award-winning, and profitable art career. Her provocative work is informed by the excessive, materialistic cultures of Wall Street and New York City. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn which hashtags to use to attract buyers on instagram and how you can follow your dreams while still paying the bills. #MoneyTips #Hashtags #Instagram #AttractBuyers

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
... simpler for financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Kristin Simmons:
I do these pieces of old stock certificates, which is ironic because it's basically dead money, and I started drawing these Mad Men characters on them with these Lichtensteinesque bubbles and stock quotes coming out of their heads, and I posted one on Instagram, and I hashtagged the name of a company, and someone reached out to me and said, "Hey, my dad used to own that company. Can I buy that piece of art from you?"

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone, before I tell you about this week's guest, I want to let you know I have a big announcement coming up after the interview, and it has to do with something that you're all asking me about, the video promos that we put out with each episode, and how you can get them for you or your business, so stay tuned for that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now to our guest. You heard her talking about her first sale. Want to know how much that first piece of art sold for? Well, stay with us here. The number surprised me. Artist Kristin Simmons incorporates themes of money and consumerism into her work in thought provoking and frankly sometimes polarizing ways, but she doesn't moralize. She's won a number of awards, including the National Endowment of the Arts award. Kristin grew up in New York, and her work has been informed by the city's culture, which can be a bit over the top when it comes to money here in New York City. She actually started her postcard career working in advertising doing art as her side hustle. She was able to have a studio area in her apartment, in part because of her early decision to buy an apartment at the age of 23. Being realistic, she did not see it as something that she could do for a living, especially in New York, that is, being a full-time artist. That is, until her Instagram feed prompted her very first sale. Here is artist Kristin Simmons.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Kristin Simmons. You're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Kristin Simmons:
Thanks very much, Bobbi. I'm so happy to be here today and talk with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I recruited you because you are a rising star artist, and you focus so much on money and finance related iconography and themes, a little bit polarizing sometimes. Tell us briefly about your art.

Kristin Simmons:
Definitely. So, my art is very much focused on consumerism and the idea of what money can do for us, both its privileges and its dangers that it has.

Bobbi Rebell:
What inspired you? Can you tell us a little bit more about it?

Kristin Simmons:
My art is really inspired by the time I grew up in the late 80s, early 90s, when Reaganomics was really in full swing, and the market was booming, and I think a lot of millennials have certain mindsets or proclivities about spending and money because of how we were raised from a subconscious age.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you were raised to be very aware of money. Tell us your money story.

Kristin Simmons:
Sure. I do these pieces of old stock certificates, which is ironic because it's basically dead money. These are stocks that people were issued pre-Quotron machine in the 60s and 70s, and I started drawing these Mad Men characters on them with these Lichtensteinesque bubbles and stock quotes coming out of their heads, and I posted one on Instagram, and I hashtagged the name of a company, and someone reached out to me and said, "Hey, my dad used to own that company. Can I buy that piece of art from you?"

Bobbi Rebell:
That's crazy.

Kristin Simmons:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you tell us how much you sold that first piece for?

Kristin Simmons:
The first piece I sold for $750.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's nice.

Kristin Simmons:
Yeah, it's great, and it was a unique work, so now the work has escalated to a greater price, but my prints still go for around that. I'm a big believer in trying to make original art at a price where people who are saving can afford it and also can compound over time if an artist does well in their career, but it was an amazing moment, and it really spurred me to think, okay, how can I hedge my marketing experience and maybe I'm onto an idea here that other people are interested in.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so interesting. How much of your art sales are tied to social media, as opposed to people discovering it, because I do know you do have showings in traditional art galleries.

Kristin Simmons:
At the beginning, they were almost all tied to social media. Now I'd probably say about 30 percent.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's so interesting. So, your Instagram and social media basically is disrupting, I mean, not just yours but Instagram in general and social media is disrupting the art world in a way that I don't it is being talked about that much. It's fascinating.

Kristin Simmons:
Yeah. And it has been for a while, and other websites, too, that are more run by artists or artist run galleries, where they don't take as big of a commission. It's still a very okay market, the art world, and I don't even profess to know that much about it. I learn more every day, but I also kind of find it interesting because of that aspect and because of it's so involving and there are no set rules quote-unquote.

Bobbi Rebell:
What would be the lesson for people, you got noticed simply by being proactive on social media, and being compelling. I mean, your Instagram is really good.

Kristin Simmons:
Thank you. I would say everyone has something to share. Everyone has a story to share or something that's unique or special about them, and don't be afraid to have that voice. Yeah, you may get criticized for it. There will always be people who don't like what you're saying or think that your work or your voice is crap, but that's just one of the evils of the web, so again, I would just say be confident, and just start creating content or posting things or looking into things that interest you and be vocal about that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And if you're approached about selling something, how do you even know where to begin with the pricing?

Kristin Simmons:
For sure, sure. So that's a question I get all the time, and there's a simple answer and a not simple answer. The simple answer is what's my time, my hourly rate into making something, what are the material costs, and what is the idea worth. That's kind of a simple formula, and how you figure out what an idea is worth is a little more complicated obviously. Pricing for artists is very much set by themselves. It's a market that they set based on what the value they think their work is. For me, it's slightly gone up over time because I've had option results, I've had museum shows, and yeah, I kind of started at, again, that formula of idea, time, plus materials, and now once you gain additional credentials, you are then advised by galleries to adjust the numbers accordingly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, of course, the galleries take 50 percent. Have to remember that.

Kristin Simmons:
Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about the money tip that you have brought with you because it's something that so many of us can benefit from, and it has to do with saving money by cooking, and you talk about the five ingredients. What do we need? Help us, Kristin. Help us.

Kristin Simmons:
Oh, my God, definitely. I mean, cooking's a great way to save money, and since I work from home, I cook all the time. Five ingredients. There are a bunch of different combinations, but the ones I like are eggs, spinach, rice, avocado and olive oil.

Bobbi Rebell:
Why those, and what do you make with those?

Kristin Simmons:
So, they're full of anti-oxidants and omega threes, most of those ingredients, and what I typically make is, I'll make like a kimchi bowl, Korean style, with rice, and I'll put an egg on top of it, and then you just throw some vegetables in it and some olive oil. It's a really healthy meal. It's very low cost to buy those ingredients, and it keeps you full for most of the day and kind of keeps your brain working and your body feeling good.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where do you get the recipes? Do you have any websites you recommend?

Kristin Simmons:
Yeah, Real Simple has actually a great cookbook. I think theirs is like 30 ingredients or something under 30 dollars that you can buy. I sometimes get recipes, I sign up for the self.com newsletter, even though I don't read their magazine. They often have good recipes, but yeah, Real Simple is probably the first place I would look. I really like their recipes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Excellent. All right, let's talk more about your art, what inspires you, where you're going to be showing this summer, where people can see it, and all that good stuff.

Kristin Simmons:
Thanks so much, Bobbi, again for having me, and in terms of the summer and what I'm doing, I am going to be part of an art gala on June 7th in New York called [Shamacha 00:08:48]. I'm hoping I'm getting the name right, or the Shamana Gallery.

Bobbi Rebell:
We'll put a link in the show notes.

Kristin Simmons:
It's a benefit hosted by the Durst organization, who gives a lot of money to the arts every year, and I'm going to be kind of doing an interactive performance piece in an office [inaudible 00:09:03] space there, and that'll be the first time I'm doing interactive performance work, so I'm looking forward to that, and then I will also be showing at the Hampton's Art Fair, which is on July 5th, because the 4th falls on a Wednesday, so there's that long weekend that comes back. July 5th to the 8th, the summer with Gallery Mourlot. That's kind of one of the biggest galleries I show with. I'm going to be showing new work there, which I'm really excited about.

Bobbi Rebell:
And where can people find you on social? Especially your Insta, but everywhere.

Kristin Simmons:
Sure. So, it's my name. It's KristinSimmonsArt, so K-R-I-S-T-I-N. Not E-N. S-I-M-M-O-N-S-A-R-T. That's my Instagram, and that's my website, too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Kristin Simmons:
Thank you so much, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. I love that Kristin advocates cooking at home. It's an easy and usually painless way to save money. It's also usually healthier, and she's right. Have five key ingredients at home. Yours might be different from hers, but that is definitely a way to save money. I want to focus on the idea though of buying art as an investment, or maybe just because you like it and want to own some art. So, Financial Grownup tip number one, Kristin pointed out kind of an open secret in the art world. Galleries take 50 percent. So, if an artist is selling work through a gallery, the gallery has costs and plays an important role, and they should get paid, so you got to take that into consideration if you go that route. However, as a buyer, if you know of an artist and you are interested in work that has not been seen at a gallery, you can go to the artist directly and have a lot more flexibility on the price.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to social media, that is easier than ever, and as Kristin mentioned, well, 750 bucks, which is what she got for her first sale is a lot of money for many people. It's also a realistic price point for many people looking to start an art collection. If you're interested in actual places to go to discover artists, I did reach out to Kristin after we taped, and she sent along a few resources. I'll put them in the show notes as well, but she mentions Morlot Editions, I hope I said that correctly, Wide Walls and Art Space for original art. She also says Paddle8 is a great resource where you can even sign up for a payment plan. Prices there range from as little as 75 dollars to 15,000 dollars for most contemporary work. So, 75 bucks, you could do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. When you do buy art, depending on the value, make sure that you insure it. Art can often be insured just within your home owner's policy or your renter's insurance, but read that policy. You may need to add a floater as a supplement to the policy, and get the work appraised. It's also a good idea to make sure there are photographs of the art, so if something does happen, there are documents to support your claim.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, onto the big announcement. I'm really excited about this. As I said at the top of the show, I keep being asked video promos for the show. Where do I get them made? How can you get one? All that stuff. The secret is I actually make them myself. Even though I was primarily a television anchor and financial journalist in my previous ventures, previous career, I also learned a lot of skills that I now use for things like that. I love making the videos, and I have a lot of fun being creative, and sometimes a little bit silly. So, I've been asked how much I would charge to make them for people, and where someone can hire me, but the truth is I'm not getting into that business. They're not for sale. I've got a lot on my plate with Financial Grownup, and my speaking engagements, and brands that I work with, so that is not going to be my next side hustle, even though a lot of you guys have asked for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
But, I have decided to try an experiment. I am going to give one away to a listener, so here's all you have to do. Between now and let's say July, every time you see me post a video, a promo video on social media, share it, and I will choose the winner based on whoever shared the most videos between now and when I pick the first winner, which again, will be in July. [inaudible 00:13:09] I will make a custom video just for you, or one that you can use promoting your business. We'll work it out. It'll be a lot of fun. I'm really excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, all right, thank you all for supporting Financial Grownup, always. Please share this episode, and then the others that you enjoy with your friends on social media, and also, if you have not already, please subscribe so you don't miss any episodes, and this is the big ask. I know they don't make it easy, but it really helps the show get discovered if you rate and review the podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
More listener involvement, we have just selected our first listener to be a guest. That episode will be coming up in June. I'm excited to share it with you guys. If you want to be considered for the next one, just email us at info@financialgrownup.com. Include the money story and the money tip that you would share if you were selected.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about Financial Grownup, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter at bobbirebell. On Instagram at bobbirebell1. On Facebook at Bobbi Rebell. Thanks to Kristin Simmons for inspiring us and showing us all that art can be a profitable side hustle and even your main job, and helping us get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.