Life Coach and best-selling author Allison Task was a dot-com millionaire by 30, only to lose it all in the dot-com bust. But from there she started on a path that has included working with Martha Stewart, hosting cooking shows, writing cookbooks, building a coaching business and her latest book “Personal (R)evolution. How To Be Happy, Change Your Life, And Do That Thing You’ve Always Wanted To Do. “

 

In Allison’s money story you will learn:

-How Allison found became a millionaire when she was not yet 30 years old

-Why she had, and still has, conflicted feelings about whether she deserved the money

-How she lost the million dollars

-Why she actually came out in the red on the entire transaction, in large part because of the tax implications of the stock options

-What it was like to be part of the dot-com bubble

-What she might do differently were she to have another shot at a million dollars

In Allison’s money lesson you will learn:

-Her advice to listeners who want to earn a lot of money

-Why she does not advocate chasing money

-How she believes listeners can figure out what makes them happy

In Allison’s money tip you will learn

-Why her closet is so much smaller than her husbands

-Allison’s philosophy on how to maximize your clothing budget

-Her advice ,as  mom of four, on clothing for children, and how to make the most of your spending on kids shoes and clothing

-How her husband reacts when she calls his clothing “crap-oh- la”

-Why Allison shy’s away from great deals on clothing and vacations

In My Take you will learn:

-The basics of how stock options work

-Why taxes tied to stock options can complicate the investment

-How to manage an investment loss and offset future investment gains

Episode Links:

Get Allison’s new book Personal Revolution: How to Be Happy, Change Your Life, and Do That Thing You've Always Wanted to Do.

Visit Allison’s website

AllisonTask.com

Follow Allison!

Twitter: allisontask

Facebook: www.facebook.com/allison-task

Linked In: www.linkedin.com/allison-task

Instagram AllisonTaskCoach

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money abroad. Built by the brains behind Skype, TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. So, don't get stung by a bad exchange rate or sneaky fees. Join the 2 million people who are already saving with TransferWise. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.

Allison Task:
I just didn't feel right about it. Ethically, something felt wrong. It was too easy to make. I wasn't even 30. How do I have a million dollars? It wasn't my money. I didn't earn it. I didn't feel connected to it, and I felt a little wrong about taking it. It kind of felt like finding someone's wallet.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. But you know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there to gather. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, we'll get to our guest in just a sec. But I want to take a minute to just talk about some stuff about the show that's been going on. We've been getting a lot of great feedback, compliments and questions about the video promotions that we run on social media to support the podcast. I thought it might make sense to address some of the questions here. First of all, lots of you guys are asking me who makes them for us. I actually make them myself. As you guys know, I love to learn new skills. I have a background in television production. I was a TV anchor for years. Part of working in media these days is learning a lot of technology editing and creative stuff. So, I'm really enjoying making them myself.

Bobbi Rebell:
The other question I'm getting the most is where you can get them made for your projects, for your business, or just for yourself. The answer is, well, I'm not going to go into that business. I have enough side hustles for now. But I did come up with an idea, an experiment that we're going to try here. We're going to have a little competition, hopefully, you guys are game, and the winner will get a custom video from me that I will make for your business, for you, for an event, whatever you want. Anything reasonable, we'll come up with something fun. The way it's going to work is from now until the beginning of July, I'm going to ask that whenever you see a video promotion for Financial Grownup, you share it on social media. Whether it be sharing on Facebook, retreating, reposting on Instagram, also DM me. Let me know that you're out there and that you are spreading the word about Financial Grownup. In the beginning of July, 1 week in July, I will see who is sharing the most and they will get a custom-made video promo just for them.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, now to our fantastic guest. She is so cool. As you heard at the top of the show, the money came easy for a young Allison Task, and then it went poof, just as fast. But she has recovered. You'll be glad to know and has made peace with the whole drama. Not sure I would be so chill. But Allison did go on to work with Martha Stewart, and to host your own cooking shows. Also, she wrote some bestselling cookbooks. Alison has also built a life coaching business and she's got a great situation now with her husband and kids, and a fantastic new book that was just released called Personal Revolution: How to Be Happy, Change Your Life, and Do That Thing You've Always Wanted to Do. Basically, it's all the solutions to everything in a book. Yeah. Anyway, she's doing a lot, she's terrific. Here is Allison Task.

Bobbi Rebell:
Allison Task, you are a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Allison Task:
Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on your new book, Personal Revolution: How to Be Happy, Change Your Life, and Do That Thing You've Always Wanted to Do. I binge read it this weekend. Even though I know I'm supposed to be doing exercises and stopping and going back and forth and all that good stuff. I promise I will, okay?

Allison Task:
You got it. It's there for you when you're ready.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. And you brought with you a money story which I have not heard in full yet. But I'm really excited about the beginning and really curious about the end, go for it.

Allison Task:
Okay. Well, the beginning is I need a million dollars and then cut to the end I lost a million dollars all before I was 30. That was actually real dollars. That wasn't like my monopoly, that was real.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Fill in the blanks on that one.

Allison Task:
Okay, the blanks are simple, dot com. I was one of those early dot com kids and was one of the first 50 people in three different companies. One of them went public when I was there, and I had two commas in my bank account that I checked via etrade.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us the details. What was the company and how did you end up working there? Tell us just a little bit more.

Allison Task:
Sure. The company was called Silicon Valley Internet Partners. I was the marketing director. So, after a year it was then called Viant. You may remember at the time there was Viant, there were Siant, there were lots of internet builders. We were the people who were strategists, designers, and technologists to large companies who wanted websites back in the 90s. We helped create the not.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
I remember that.

Allison Task:
Yeah, we worked with People Magazine. We worked all over new media and old media, literally building their high-performance websites.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. So, explain how you made the million dollars. You were paid in stock? What exactly happened? How did the million happen?

Allison Task:
I was employee number 50. I was there for four years. I was paid in stock. Generous stock options. Probably year two when I was there, we went public and those stock options that were pennies went to over three figures. So, I had multi million dollars on paper. And [inaudible 00:05:56] I exercised my shares, which means I got to pay taxes on those multimillion dollars too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you sell the stock when exercised those shares? [crosstalk 00:06:03] different. Right. So, explain how this works. You have to pay the taxes when you actually receive the stock, but that doesn't mean you sold the stock and received money.

Allison Task:
Correct. So, I probably purchased the stock when it was around 60. It went up to 120. And then I remember my father telling me, "Honey, it's at 30, you need to sell. You need to sell." I'm like, "It's fine." I didn't sell until it went down to six, and then it became a penny stock and I believe delisted.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. So, you went from a million, more than a million-

Allison Task:
More than a million.

Bobbi Rebell:
... to ultimately that whole venture cost you money because of the tax. Is that correct?

Allison Task:
Yeah, that's so painful. I did have five years during which I was not paying tax. I was not paying tax, why? Because I had then got to write off the loss. But, yeah. I think it wasn't, definitely it wasn't a million dollars in the bank account. Let's just say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Well, first of all, looking back, is there anything you could have done differently? I guess you should have sold it at 120 if you are had a crystal ball, which you did not.

Allison Task:
Listen, with four kids, I would not have minded having that money, made a few investments. I think it would have been prudent to have earned it. What it did do for me, though, was set me up with my attitude for life. First of all, I say it's a million-dollar joke, I need to laugh a lot and I learn a lot from that experience, right? There's some value there.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you weren't alone, by the way.

Allison Task:
Oh, God. No.

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Allison Task:
Definitely. At least I did it to myself, you know what I mean? No one was [inaudible 00:07:25] me. That was my choice, fair and square. I think I always felt uncomfortable because I didn't earn the money, right? I wanted to earn it with my effort. I felt like, well, I was just part of a big thing. Well, that money came from somewhere. Someone had their retirement account and it went into Viant at some time. It wasn't my money. I didn't earn it. I didn't feel connected to it. I felt a little wrong about taking it. It kind of felt like finding someone's wallet.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is a little psychiatrist's thing, but do you feel like you sabotaged yourself the way you're talking?

Allison Task:
I think you're onto something. I just didn't feel right about it. Ethically, something felt wrong. It was too easy to make. I wasn't even 30. How do I have a million dollars? I'm a marketing director for a dot com company. Come on. Come on. I'm not working that hard. How did I create that value? I didn't. In the end, it wasn't a value. It went away. It was part of the big bubble. Something of it felt dirty. Money is money, that was someone's, it wasn't mine. I didn't earn it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back in all your grow up wisdom, what is the lesson, what is the takeaway for our listeners?

Allison Task:
Well, the take away is definitely find a way to earn your money in a way you feel good about. I, after that, literally left and started working for myself, right? When you work for yourself, you're only as good as your last client. You're only as good as your last experience. I developed a lot of personal integrity in terms of the way I work and the way I want to do my work. From that, I have something that's more important than money in my opinion, which is life satisfaction. Making a meaningful contribution. I'm a life coach. Everyone who comes to my office wants to make a meaningful contribution, every single last one. It's more valuable than money.

Allison Task:
I lost the money and learned the lesson, but I still really ... I had my ethics and values and I knew something wasn't right. What's the lesson your listeners?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah.

Allison Task:
If you make a lot of money and you keep chasing money, there's something that's not right. There's a lack of fitness. If you have money and you keep chasing money, it's like you can never be too rich or too thin. I don't subscribe to that. I think there's a weird thing when you keep chasing money. So, figure out what that's about if you actually want to be happy.

Bobbi Rebell:
On that note, we're going to pivot and kind of take a different angle. Because your money tip actually has to do with splurging. So, I guess it's okay if you have the right amount of money to splurge. Tell us more about how you approach that.

Allison Task:
Definitely. Splurge and enjoy it. This one, I'm going to take you into my closet for this one. My husband and I share a closet. It's a walk-in closet. But my side is pretty small. And why is my side small? I buy outstanding things. I used to go to the Gap and get six pairs of pants, half of which were on sale, most of which would fall apart in three months. I now by very expensive high quality essential pieces. Like, a pair of black pants, an amazing pair of Frye boots. My husband likes a sale, and he has a lot of crap-hola that doesn't exactly look, good fit.

Bobbi Rebell:
How would he feel if he heard you say that?

Allison Task:
He would not his hand and say, "I know hun, I know."

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, really?

Allison Task:
I know, but it was such a good deal. But it was such a good deal. No good deal. Certainly not when you're sharing my closet, babe. No. Those vacations, right? You wait all year to go on the vacation. Spend the money. Spend the money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Easier said than done. What about with your kids?

Allison Task:
Ah, my kids. I'm so glad you brought that up because I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. First of all, I have four kids, three of whom are under five. I do not want tons of crap, right? Their shoes, they each get one pair of sneakers, period. Wear it until there are holes in it. I mean that literally. They were their sneakers-

Bobbi Rebell:
But what if they get wet?

Allison Task:
Well, they have really good rubber boots.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book. As I mentioned, I whipped through it in literally one day. I know you're not supposed to do that, because one of the best things about it is it really, if you do go through this book properly, it holds you accountable.

Allison Task:
The book is nine chapters, end and intro. Each chapter is designed to be a guidebook workbook. So, the thing about seeing your coaches, coaches ask you lots of questions to get you deeper into your own thinking. Throughout the book, there's action points and insight points with lots of questions. I say please use it with a workbook, use it with a computer. Before you can go on to the next chapter, there's a prep sheet. You're constantly scaling yourself. How much closer am I to achieving my goal?

Bobbi Rebell:
What is your favorite chapter then?

Allison Task:
I really like chapter five. Chapter four is identify your network. It's for people who want to do more networking. Anytime you have something you want to do, you call upon your people. You call upon your social network to help you. That is everything. Chapter five is expanding your network, right? So many people feel awkward about self-promotion, about asking others for things. So, once I got you to trust me and feel comfortable that like you are loved and people root for you, now let's take the next step and expand upon that existing network.

Allison Task:
My second favorite chapter is the last chapter, which is all about celebrating. You've achieved it. You've done it. Now, let's set that experience in your brain so that you can do it again and you can call upon it in the future. My book launched last week, and last week, it became a best seller on Amazon and actually still is. And so now, this is that time for me. I get to celebrate and do end runs with everyone who helped me along the way, and that's a total joy.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, we will leave you to celebrate. Where can everyone find you and find out more about the book and everything you're up to?

Allison Task:
Thank you. Please visit allisontask.com. That's A-L-L-I-S-O-N-T-A-S-K.com. Plug it in to Facebook, Twitter, I'm Allison Task all over the place.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Allison Task:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, Allison was pretty cool about the loss, but I wonder how she really was back in the day. I do want to do a little bit of explaining about how options work and what exactly happened in terms of the tax consequences. Because we sort of alluded to it a little bit. Allison talked about how it worked out, but I think it's important that you guys understand at least a little bit about how options work.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one. If you do ever get offered stock options, obviously, do the research thoroughly and understand how they work. Because as Allison explained, you can sometimes be on the hook for taxes, even before you actually have the cash from the stock. So, a little bit about that. Options basically mean that you can buy or exercise shares at a preset price, known as the strike price. If a stock is selling at a price higher than the strike price, you basically get to buy the stock at a discount. If you sell them right away, guaranteed profit. The catch, and this is what Allison mentioned, is that you owe tax on the transaction, whether or not you sell the stock at that time.

Bobbi Rebell:
If you sell the stock, you have the cash to pay the tax from your actual profits that you took, you got the money, you're good. But if you are betting that the stock is going to keep rising even more and you want to hold on to it so you don't sell it, you still have to pay the tax on that paper profit that you had by exercising the option. So, then, if the stock goes down and you sell it for a loss, the thing is, the government does not send you a check refunding the taxes that you paid. It doesn't work that way. It's really important that you understand how that works, and the risk involved.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Back to the taxes. So, the tax payments are painful, but they can be used in the future to offset other investment profits. So, let's say that you have a capital gain on another stock, another investment the next year. You can carry forward the losses from the first transaction and then you can offset those gains plus, an additional $3,000. So, it's going to help your tax situation going forward, even though no one wants to have paid taxes on money they didn't really make. You do get at least to match it up against profits going forward. That's basically what Allison did, and what she was referring to when she kind of jokingly said that she did not pay taxes for five years.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right everyone, please continue to rate and review the show if you have not on iTunes or Apple Podcast. Every single review matters. I know it's another thing to do. You guys are busy, but it is truly appreciated. And of course, hit the subscribe button so you don't miss any episodes. We are also now on YouTube, just starting out there. So, we're posting the show there and we're also posting those promotional videos. Just search for financial grown up and you'll find it and you can see the promotional videos there. And, if you are following me on Instagram @bobbirebell1, please DM me. I want to hear from you guys and hear what you like about the show, what you want to hear differently on the show, guests that you want all that good stuff. So, be in touch and of course, follow me on Instagram @bobbyrebell1, and twitter @bobbirebell. I'm on Facebook, Bobbi Rebel. Learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, go check out Allison Task's new book, personal revolution, Personal Revolution: How to Be Happy, Change Your Life, and Do That Thing You've Always Wanted to Do. It is already a bestseller, and thank you, Allison, for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

 

Clever Girl Finance’s Bola Sokunbi is famous for saving $100k on a $54k salary in about 3 years. But then she started dropping $3,000 on a massive collection of luxury handbags, most of which she never even used. 

In Bola’s money story you will learn:

-How she saved more than $100,000 on a salary of just $54,000 in three and a half years

-The side hustle that helped her reach that goal

-How after she reached that goal, she made a very unexpected spending splurge

-The fascinating reason, looking back, that she went down that path and kept going!

-The moment she woke up and realized she had to make a change

-Exactly what she did to get back on track and make a profit in the process

-The regret she had despite making money on her debacle

-Why she thinks so much about Amazon stock

In Bola’s money lesson you will learn:

-Why keeping her handbags in top condition was the key in getting a solid return when she went to sell them

-Other ways to maintain the value of resale able luxury goods like handbags

-Her take on investing in goods like handbags compared to the stock market and corporations

In Bola’s money tip you will learn:

-Ways to get luxury goods like handbags for less money without compromising quality

-Bola’s favorite pre-owned goods resources

-How friends can trade or sell handbags to each other

-Bola’s new strategy for buying expensive handbags

In my take you will learn:

-Why I compare Bola’s handbag venture to winning the lottery

-The difference between saving money and building wealth

-How to sell luxury goods like handbags, as well as other things you can sell, like baby strollers

-Why I do not promote buying fake goods as a cheaper option

Episode links

Bola’s website: CleverGirlFinance.com

Bola’s podcast: Clever Girls Know

Follow Bola!

Twitter Clever Girl Finance

Instagram Clever Girl Finance

Facebook Clever Girl Finance

LinkedIn Bola Sokunbi

 

Also mentioned in the show:

Vestiare Collective

Fashionphile

Rent the Runway

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Bola Sokumbi:
I've always been a handbag junkie. It's just something about leather. Like the smell of fine leather that just ... I don't know.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what, being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. This is one of those, "She did not do that," episodes. My guest was a champ at saving money on a very low income, but once she had that money, things took in unexpected turn and then there was yet another unexpected twist to the story. Bola Sokumbi is a certified financial education instructor and the force behind the very popular, Clever Girl Finance, a website and podcast that empowers and educates women to make the best financial decisions for them. Here is Bola Sokumbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Bola Sokumbi, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Bola Sokumbi:
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am such a fan of yours. First of all, in addition to being a money expert, you are the force behind Clever Girl Finance, which is a website and a podcast. It started after you. I don't even know how you did this. You saved $100,000 in three and a half years on a salary of, I want to say, about $50,000?

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah. I was making $54,000 before taxes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Give us just the high level. How you did that.

Bola Sokumbi:
I basically got lean and mean with, probably, my finances. I contributed to my retirement fund from my employer because I knew they were offering a match and that was a way for me to get some free money. I kept my expenses super low. I avoided my friends and stayed home. I wasn't going out to eat very much. I wasn't buying alcohol. I was the-

Bobbi Rebell:
Temporarily, right?

Bola Sokumbi:
Temporarily.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Bola Sokumbi:
I was in a steady ramen noodles and coke diet. I focused on saving 40 to 50% of my paycheck and anything extra.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Bola Sokumbi:
I save my tax returns, my bonuses. I try to save as much as possible. I also started a side hustle. I started a wedding photography business, which really helped to increase the amount of money I was bringing in. That helped contribute to me being able to save that amount of money. Finally, I avoided credit cards as best I could. I, instead, used a charge card that require me to pay my balance in full every month. That kept me really mindful about my spending, but overall, it was really just setting the intention that I wanted to save and I wanted to challenge myself to save six figures. I put my mind to it. I gone to that focus and three and a half years later, I was able to save that $100,000.

Bobbi Rebell:
So smart. In full details, if anyone wants, go to Clever Girl Finance. I want to talk about your money story that you brought because Bola, this is like an incredible story given what you just said.

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here you are. You got $100,000. You're hustling with a side hustle. You're eating ramen noodles. You're doing everything intentionally, maxing out your retirement account to get the max. What do you do? You start buying $3,000 handbags. Tell us what, what.

Bola Sokumbi:
Holla.

Bobbi Rebell:
What?

Bola Sokumbi:
Let me break it down. Basically, I got to this point where I had saved a ton of money. I had a lot of money in the bank. Actually, at the end of the four years, I had about $150,000 saved. I was making more money. I had my business. I gone raising at my job. I was earning, now, well over six figures at this point. I was like "Wow, I have all this money. I maxed out my retirement savings. I'm still meeting my savings obligations. I just have to treat myself." I've always been a handbag junkie. It's just something about leather, like the smell of fine leather that just ... I don't know.

Bobbi Rebell:
I personally would've bought a pint of Haagen-Dazs if I wanted to treat myself but okay. $3,000 handbags.

Bola Sokumbi:
I went all the way, yes. I got my first designer handbag like "Oh my God, this is amazing. It's beautiful. I bought this in cash. I love it."

Bobbi Rebell:
What was it? Describe it.

Bola Sokumbi:
It was a Channel Jumbo in black caviar leather with gold hardware, classic, beautiful.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. I wouldn't know.

Bola Sokumbi:
I got the one. Should've been enough, but then I was like well, few months later, I have all the spare money. I'm still saving. I didn't know what to do. I want to invest, but I don't need to invest that much. I'm going to buy another designer handbag. I got to the point where I was buying several handbags for maybe three or four years. To me, it was fine because I was still saving. I was still meeting my obligation.

Bobbi Rebell:
How much do you think you spent in total, Bola, on the handbags?

Bola Sokumbi:
Oh my goodness. I don't know. If we were to have an Instagram competition on who could grab their handbags steady for the next 30 to 60 days, I would win, every time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Wait. You're going to have a different handbag every day for 30 to 60 days?

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah, I could. Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Bola Sokumbi:
I could've. I have a lot of handbags. I had them in different colors-

Bobbi Rebell:
Were they just sitting in the closet? Were you taking them to work? What was going on with the handbags?

Bola Sokumbi:
That's the sucky part. I maybe use like two or three. Well, I was exaggerated. I didn't have 60. Exaggerating. About a month. Let's say, a month. I didn't really use them. That was a disappointing factor. I'm one of those people that believe that if there's something that you like and it's something that you're going to use, go for it as long as you plan it out financial, but I wasn't using them. They did not make financial sense for me. I was using like one or two of them, and then maybe the others, I would look at or wear to a baby shower for 25 minutes and it goes right back into the closet. It did not make any financial sense. Fortunately, for me, at the time that I purchase them, for those of you who are into handbags, knew that there have been a flurry of price increases especially with the higher end luxury brands.

Bola Sokumbi:
At the time I bought the handbags, I bought them before the crazy price increases started. I got to a point where I was like "Okay, this doesn't make any sense." I will look in my closet and all I would see would be dollar bills stacked up. My husband is like "You need to let these go. You don't even use them. It doesn't make sense. You feel so guilty about having them because you're not using them." I took it upon myself to sell almost every one of them. I still have a few. The ones I use. It was really hard to sell them because I felt like I was selling my children. It's crazy. When I think about it, it's ridiculous, but I sold them. Luckily, for me, because of the price increases, I was able to sell them for a lot more than I purchase. That very first Channel handbag, the black jumbo I just described with caviar hardware, I paid $2,900 for it and I sold it for $5,500.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my goodness. Only you, Bola, would actually turn a cringeworthy shopping habit into a positive investment experience.

Bola Sokumbi:
However, Bobbi, to the point you asked me before we started recording was, I made money but when I think about it, I really didn't make that much money because one of the things that trigger me to start selling those handbags was Amazon stock. I realized that if I had spent all that money I spent on those handbags on Amazon Stock, I would've had times 100 of what I had spent on handbags. Not just doubling my money. I would've like times 100 it, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
If you had actually bought Amazon Stock, but truthfully, how much do you think ... do you think you spent $90,000 on handbags?

Bola Sokumbi:
Oh, I don't know. Over a three to four year period, I spent a lot of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. You bought 30 handbags at $3,000 each.

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah. I had about 30. They were not all the same price.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Bola Sokumbi:
They were not all $3,000 handbags.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the most expensive one?

Bola Sokumbi:
The Channel handbags I had. They were about in the $3,000, $3,500 range at that time. Now, they're not anymore. They're about 6 to $7,000 now.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Bola Sokumbi:
I don't own any more handbags by the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson from this beyond the fact that there was a time in life when investing in handbag was actually an appreciable asset? Still, they probably know. I don't know the market, but anyway, beyond the fact that it actually turned on to be a good investment.

Bola Sokumbi:
I wouldn't even describe as an appreciable handbag because for me, it was just purely for the fact that I was not using them. No one is going to pay you top dollar for a handbag that has been worn and beat up. If you're buying something, I believe that you should be using it. Lesson for this is cost per wear. You can have 100 Channel handbags if you want to have them and if you can afford them and you're paying for them in cash and it's not taking off your financial goals, but what is your cost per wear. How often are you using them? Are you getting your money's worth? If you buy a handbag for $3,000 and you wear it once, then that one time you wore it cost you $3,000 and that makes no sense. If you buy this handbag and you wear it 3,000 times over four years, then that handbag cost you $1 or maybe it comes down to cents and pennies and that starts to make more sense because as opposed to buying $25 handbags over that three-year period and use that one handbag over that time and you get your cost per wear.

Bola Sokumbi:
To me, cost per wear is really important. That's how I plan out my wardrobe. I still buy fancy things, but I have to be using them. I have to get my cost per wear down to pennies for it to make sense. I know when I see something if I'm going to use it or not. Understand your cost per wear. People may think, "Oh, buying handbags is crazy," but people spend their money on different things. For me, it was the handbag thing. Some people spend their money on electronics, on cars, on things that they don't necessarily use like having a second car in your garage that you drive on Saturday is not good to drive per wear.

Bobbi Rebell:
The handbags make you feel good.

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah. I would pick a handbag over a lot of things. That was me. That was a lesson I learned. I put the money right back into my investment accounts. I was better for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's stick with the handbag thing. What is your money tip, your everyday money tip for everyone?

Bola Sokumbi:
I would say that if you are a handbag girl like me, no shay, no judgment, find ways to get the handbags that you like at a cheaper cost or without putting out so much money. For instance, Bobbi, you and I talked about Rent the Runway. You really like that. If you want to actually own them, you can think about getting them preowned from sties like Fashion File or Vestiaire Collective. There's a bunch of different ones that are reputable that sell authentic products or even local consignment stores in New York. There's a ton of them. Or buying them off of friends who are trying to let go of their handbags or trying to recycle their wardrobe. Those are great ways that you can get luxury at a lower cost. You can also wait until some of these handbags go into the sale and purchase them that way.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Because a lot of them are really classic.

Bola Sokumbi:
Yes. It's all about buying something that you know you're going to use for a long time. I tend to avoid any trend pieces because I don't want to be out of fashion next year after spending all this money on it. I buy bags that I can carry forever. That's what I do. Every purchase I make right now, I carry that bag to shreds, basically.

Bobbi Rebell:
Definitely. Get that cost per wear down. Where can people find you and learn more about Clever Girl Finance?

Bola Sokumbi:
Yeah. You can find me on my website at clevergirlfinance.com, on Instagram at Clever Girl Finance, on Facebook, Clever Girl Finance. I also have a podcast called, Clever Girls Know. You can search for it on iTunes, Stitcher, Sound Cloud. You'll find it there as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think everyone should definitely check all of that out. I am a big fan. Thank you so much, Bola.

Bola Sokumbi:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Except for the fact that she was ironically able to sell the handbags at a profit, this whole thing reminds me of what happens when people inherit a ton of money or they win the lottery and then they just don't know what to do, so they go shopping. Financial Grownup tip number one, Bola was great at accumulating money but she was selling herself short when it came to building wealth. She was meeting her goals in terms of saving and investing and all that, but that doesn't mean she couldn't move the goal post given the resource that she had and make even more ambitious goals. Not a problem to buy a bag that you can afford, but she wasn't even using most of them. Bola is very specific that, well, they ironically went up in value if she had invested the money. In her case, she talks about Amazon Stock, she would've made a lot more money. Of course, you could lose money in the stock market. There's no guarantee of that. It's just something to consider.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, if you do buy luxury goods and you aren't using them, it is easier than ever to sell them, so many resources online. You may not make as big a profit as Bola did, you may lose money but you're still going to get some cash. I have sold some bags on the real wheel. I've been happy to have the cash even though it went for less than I paid. You can also buy slightly used bags there at a discount if you want them. As I've said before, you can rent them at Rent the Runway or other similar websites. I will leave some links in the show notes for you guys. Given these resources, I would also urge you to stay away from the fakes. It undermines the economy and the business of the companies that produce the real thing. Don't buy fake bags. Also, it is illegal.

Bobbi Rebell:
We want you to be a financial grownup. Send us an email to info@financialgrownup.com if you want to be considered for one of our monthly listener episodes. Just tell us what the money story is that you want to share and your everyday money tip. If you have not already, please rate and review the podcast on iTunes, Apple Podcast. That helps others discover us and grow the community. It is truly appreciated. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and follow me at Bobbi Rebell on Twitter @ bobbirebell1 on Instagram and on Facebook, I am at Bobbi Rebell. Bola is the best. I am so appreciative that she was brave enough to get really candid. She definitely got us all one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

New dad and financial advisor Kevin Matthews wanted to start teaching his baby about money even before his son was born- and almost missed his birth! But the video evidence of his dedication to the future financial health of his baby is a gift that is truly one of a kind. 

In Kevin’s money story you will learn:

-Why he felt so compelled to shoot a video right before his son was born

-The strategy he wanted to share that would make his newborn child a millionaire

-The three specific things he will do to make sure his son is a millionaire

-Why he regrets taping the video

In Kevin’s money lesson you will learn:

-Why planning ahead or recording in advance would have been a better move in retrospect

-How he will alter his strategy with his next child!

In Kevin’s money tip you will learn:

-Why rebalancing a portfolio is essential

-How to tell if you need to rebalance your portfolio

-Exactly what to do if your portfolio is not balanced. 

In my take you will learn:

-Why planning for the future sometimes has to take a back seat to focusing on the present

-How to time your financial check ups

Episode Links

Building Bread

Get Kevin’s book Starting Point: How to Create Wealth that Lasts

Watch Kevin’s video series Bread Crumbs

Follow Kevin

Twitter @buildingbread

Instagram @buildingbread

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/BuildingBread/

Email Kevin info@buildingbread.com

 

 

Also mentioned

Phroogal

Jason Vitug

The Financial Gym

 

Kevin Matthews II promo for the Financial Grownup podcast with Bobbi Rebell.. Kevin shares his story of recording a video for his son, about 3 ways to make sure he became a millionaire, and how he cut it very close to missing the birth of his first son!

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at TransferWise.com/Podcast, or download the app.

Kevin Matthews:
I would not do it the same way. That was a huge risk that I took, and I got lucky that I was able just to run back up, and everything was okay, and I was in the right spot, so I probably would not do it again.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up with me, certified financial planner, Bobby Rebell, author of How to be a Financial Grown Up. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're gonna get there together. I'm gonna bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in getting our financial plans together for the future that we miss something super important in the now. For financial advisor, Kevin Matthews II, who runs BuildingBread and is the author of Starting Point, How to Create Wealth That Lasts, making sure he created a video moments before his son was born seemed really important at the time, but looking back, maybe it could have waited. I'll let Kevin fill you in. Here is Kevin Matthews II. Hey, Kevin Matthews. You are a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.

Kevin Matthews:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
We met actually at an event for Phroogal, run by our mutual friend, Jason Vitug. I was so impressed with you, and I went and I ran after you, and said, "I need to rack you down. I need to have you on my podcast." Thank you so much for being here.

Kevin Matthews:
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
You gave a great presentation, and that's a lot of what you do. You're a financial advisor, but you also do a lot of speaking. You also have BuildingBread is your website, your company, and you are a two time author.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
We will talk about more about that. That's a little teaser, my friends. We're gonna talk more about Kevin's books and his business in just a few minutes, but first, I want to get to your story, because it has to do with your baby that was just born, your son. By the way, are you a first time father?

Kevin Matthews:
Yes. This is then first time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations.

Kevin Matthews:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Share our story, because this is very special and very sweet.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Yeah. I do a segment that airs every week, so I do what's called BreadCrumbs, and I give out financial tidbits every Wednesday morning.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where is this, on YouTube, or where can people see it?

Kevin Matthews:
This is primarily on Facebook.

Bobbi Rebell:
On Facebook. Okay.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. I have it in Facebook for my group. It's also on Twitter and through my email list as well. Every week, I get on. We'll talk about what's in the news. I'll give you a few tips and continue that way. So, at the hospital, about two hours before my son was born ... It was Wednesday. I'm a dedicated person, so I was like, "Look. I need to do this, because once he's born, there's no way I'm gonna stay on schedule." So, I ran downstairs. I shot a video on compounding interest and a few tips we were gonna do for my son to make sure that he was gonna become a millionaire.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. You called it Three Things for Your Son to Become a Millionaire.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Three things we were gonna do to make sure my son was a millionaire. So, I went down. I was live in the lobby of the hospital, because I couldn't record in the room. I'm shooting, and I assume at this time my wife has maybe two, three, four hours perhaps before he's born.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no. Kevin, you're a first time father. Babies don't go on your schedule. First lesson.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. I learned. I shoot the video. It takes maybe 15, 20 minutes. I get back in the elevator, and the minute I walk in they say, "Okay. Push." I'm like, "Wait. This is it?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
You are so dedicated to your group that you almost missed the birth of your son.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes. I was so dedicated to his future that I almost missed the present. Yeah. I was able to do both. I definitely made it, but had I been maybe 20 minutes later, going down and recording, or had the video been longer or something, I definitely could have missed it. This was in the middle of that last winter snowstorm as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. So, we want everyone to go watch the actual video, but give us some highlights of the advice and the lessons for your newborn son to become a millionaire.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Yeah. It's really getting yourself in position to make sure that he's gonna be taken care of. There's the life insurance piece, and there's the piece that you want to make sure that you're updating all of your recorders, your beneficiaries, all of that, because sometimes when you have a kid, when you get married, when those life changes happen, you want to make sure that everything is in place to have everything updated, so that it reflects your current family situation, which again, is fluid. The second thing that we just did actually was open up an investment account for him and then begin saving for him now, so that when he's in his 30s, maybe even 40s, he will be much farther along than I was or anyone in my family actually.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of account was it? It doesn't sound like you're talking about a 529 for school if he's gonna get it in his 30s or 40s.

Kevin Matthews:
Correct. Right now, the first account we opened was a custodial account for him. We may do a 529 plan in the near future, but I started with a custodial account.

Bobbi Rebell:
Very good. The full video available on Facebook. What is the lesson from not just the lessons that you're giving your newborn son, but what is the lesson from this story, where you admitted you didn't really plan well, but you also were really dedicated to your business? So, would you do it again the same way?

Kevin Matthews:
The same way? No. I would not do it the same way. That was a huge risk that I took, and I got lucky that I was able just to run back up, and everything was okay, and I was in the right spot. I probably would not do it again. Definitely planning ahead would have been easier. Probably recording in advance would have been easier as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, but it did have that special live quality as well.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes. It did.

Bobbi Rebell:
It will always have that.

Kevin Matthews:
It worked for that one time, but to risk it twice may not be wise.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, for baby number two more scheduling.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
You learn and also the lesson is that babies don't keep to grown up time.

Kevin Matthews:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your money tip. What should people do? This is great advice for anyone, not just parents.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Absolutely. Similar to the previous point, but it's being at the right spot at the right time. The way I look at that is making sure that you are properly balanced. Over the last few years, stocks have been great, and that kind of throws people out of whack. What we do is we tend to say, "Hey. Great. I'm just gonna roll with it. I'm making gains," but that's really the time that you want to go back and rebalance your portfolio, and you want to do it periodically. You want to keep those dates static versus checking in when it's a bad day on the market or just randomly when you're in the mood to.

Bobbi Rebell:
Specially, what does it mean to rebalance your portfolio? How does it suddenly get off balance?

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. It can get off balance when the market changes. For example, if you're someone who has a 50/50 portfolio, you can't to have 50% in stocks, 50% in bonds, if you're someone who's right in the middle, as stocks grow, your portfolio could be 65 or 70% versus 30% because of the growth of the market. You want to go back. That means that you're taking on more risk, so you may want to go back, look at your portfolio, and bring it back down to where it's 50/50, because that's where you should be based on your goals and your risk tolerance.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. All right. Kevin, I want to talk to you about your businesses, because you kind of have a bunch of different things going on, and you're writing books, and you're making videos. Tell us more about what you do.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. At BuildingBread my main goal is to help you set, simplify, and achieve your financial goals. I do that through basic financial education, so I do the videos. I do BreadCrumbs, and I teach courses to make sure that when you're speaking with your financial advisor, when you're trying to figure it out on your own, that you can understand the situation, have a well educated situation, so that you don't feel like people are talking over you or at you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I can speak firsthand. You're a wonderful speaker and presenter, and everyone was mesmerized by what you were saying. I think you got a lot of people to really pay attention to their money and be a lot more deliberate.

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, where can people find you and get in touch if they want you to come to their organization or if they want to follow you on social media?

Kevin Matthews:
Yeah. You can follow me anywhere on social media @BuildingBread. I'm always active there. You can also email me at Info@BuildingBread.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much, Kevin Matthews. This has been great.

Kevin Matthews:
Yes. Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Kevin had a lot of great advice. Financial Grown Up tip number one. We spend a lot of time in the personal finance space talking about planning for the future, but by no means should that divert your attention from the present, when things, like the birth of your child, are about to happen. Perspective. It is a great story to tell your kid, but take note. Kevin would not do it again. Let's try to look up from our phones more. I'm right there with you on that one. We may not even realize all the priceless thing we may be missing, and you can't buy more time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up tip number two. Just like you schedule a doctor's appointment, let's all take Kevin's advice and do a financial check up based not on when something is happening in the market, for example, but on a calendar driven base, so the decisions are based on what is best for you in a proactive way, not a reactive way, or another good time may be when you have a change in circumstance, like having a baby. I don't really do this these days, but I'm gonna think about Kevin's advice and try to be on a more regular schedule with checking in with family, financial planning, and things like that. I think it's a great thing to incorporate in all of our lives.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you, Kevin, and thanks to all of you for supporting Financial Grown Up. I am starting to get a nice amount of applications for our upcoming once a month listener as guest episodes, so keep them coming. We're gonna have some great stories, and I can't wait to hear yours. Just email us at Info@FinancialGrownUp.com. Tell us the money story and the money tip that you would share if you were chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Please continue to share this show with your friends and colleagues to help bring more people into the Financial Grown Up community. Rate and review us on iTunes. That really helps us get noticed, and it is truly appreciated. Follow me on Twitter @BobbyRebell, on Instagram @BobbyRebell1, and you can find me on Facebook @BobbyRebell. Kevin truly brought som fatherly wisdom to our program. Great show, Kevin, and thanks for getting us all one step closer to being Financial Grown Ups. Financial Grown Up with Bobby Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

As a young woman in New York City, Randi Zuckerberg, author of “Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day)" was struggling financially. Her mom, knowing the financial strain, came armed with… luxury goods. Think Jimmy Choo shoes. But as Randi explains, the designer duds were part of a very intentional lesson, that put Randi right on track to being a financial grownup. 

 

In Randi’s money story you will learn:

-How Randi struggled to make ends meet on her first salary of just $28,000

-Why Randi’s mom would take her out and buy her luxury goods, but not help her with her every day expenses

-What Randi did when she literally could not afford to buy a metrocard for the NYC bus and subway

In Randi’s money lesson you will learn:

-How her mother’s strategy helped Randi find her path to financial independence

-If Randi still has all those shoes!

-The one thing Randi would change when she teachers her own children about money

In Randi’s money tip you will learn:

-Why she is paying attention to Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

-How you can learn more about Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

In My Take you will learn:

-How to manage social media envy

-The specific thing you can do with your own social media content to improve your experience and that of your friends

-Why and how you can learn more about bitcoin and cryptocurrency

Episode Links:

Learn more about Randi on her website Zuckerbergmedia.com

Get Randi’s book! Pick Three: You Can Have it All, Just Not Every Day

Learn about Cryptocurrency from Randi in this tutorial

 

Follow Randi!

Facebook Randi Zuckerberg

Instagram @RandiZuckerberg

Twitter @RandiZuckerberg

 

Also mentioned

Statement Event

Empower App

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Randi Zuckerber:
You know, I would turn to her and I would be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, my friend Randi Zuckerberg is known for a lot of things. It would take an entire podcast to name them all, so some highlights. She is a bestselling author of Dot Complicated, a Broadway actress and singer with a head star in Rock of Ages. She is the founder and CEO of Zuckerberg Media. Randi is also the force behind Sue's Tech Kitchen, she's got her weekly Sirius XM show, and oh, by the way, she created this little thing called Facebook Live. But her most recent project is Pick Three, which is a book about priorities, and with all that Randi has going on you bet she has had to get a handle on how to focus on what matters most, even if that changes every day. Here is Randi Zuckerberg.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi Zuckerberg, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thanks so much Bobbi, it's great to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Major congratulations, another, in this case soon-to-be bestseller, your new book Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day). We're going to talk more about that later on, but just high level, this is something you've had in your head basically for your whole adult life. Tell us briefly about the concept, and then we'll do more about the book later.

Randi Zuckerber:
Sure. Well, we're all juggling so many things. I know you and I, we both, we're entrepreneurs, we're moms, I feel like there's so much pressure on all of us to be perfect at everything we do. Especially you log onto Instagram and everyone's lives look so perfect and so amazing, and then it's easy to sit there and think, "Gosh, how come I don't have my act together? Why don't I have it all and have that perfect balance?" And what I've really started to feel over the years is that it's just, it's time for us to stop carrying so much guilt around. Nobody has it all. Nobody has perfect balance, no matter what their lives might look like on Instagram. And so when I thought about the times in my life I felt most proud of my accomplishments, it was not when I was balanced. It was when I gave myself permission to just prioritize and go for it in a few areas of my life, so that's what I'm writing about. It's called Pick Three, and it's work, sleep, family, friends, fitness - pick three.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. And by the way, just to show how much I love this book and how obsessed I am, I actually made notes in the book already. You can learn more about Randy's philosophy on social media and how our lives always look better online, page 211. That was one of the things that I flagged. So that's how good her book is, I have a book full of little post-it notes. Okay, we're going to go back to the book, but I want to talk about your money story, because it's something that I actually related to, because something very similar happened when I was a young adult, in my case also in New York City. Tell us your money story, because it has to do with the way that your mother taught you to earn your own money, but yet still was supporting you in different ways.

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally. And it's funny, because I didn't really learn the lesson of this story until many years later. In the moment, it felt kind of random, and now I'm so thankful to my mom for that. So in the book I go a bit deeper into the story, but when I was right out of college I landed a job at an ad agency. I was making I think $28,000.00 a year, which to live in Manhattan, that just doesn't work. I was in this apartment that was probably supposed to be a one-bedroom but there were four of us that were living in it, and my part of the apartment was a fake wall partitioning off a corner of the living room.

Bobbi Rebell:
Probably illegal, too.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
We know all about those.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes, I'm sure it was illegal, and it was taking up an entire paycheck every month. And my mom lived about an hour outside of the city. We've always been such close friends, my mom and I, and she would come into the city to take me out for dinner because I definitely couldn't afford to go to a restaurant on my own. And then she would be like, "Let me help you out," and she would take me shopping, and she would buy me fancy shoes. Like Jimmy Choo. Like the fancy-

Bobbi Rebell:
Where were you going in the Jimmy Choos?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know. And I would be like, "Mom, that's so nice of you to buy me Jimmy Choo shoes, but can you help me pay my rent? That's where I really need help."

Bobbi Rebell:
At one point you couldn't buy a Metro Card, right?

Randi Zuckerber:
That's right. There was one month that I had to walk everywhere because I didn't budget well, and I couldn't afford the $120.00 or whatever it was at that time for a monthly Metro Card. And so I walked everywhere in Manhattan for a month. That's kind of the state of how I was living.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were you walking everywhere in the Jimmy Choos, though?

Randi Zuckerber:
I know, right? Luckily I had fancy shoes to walk in, so you know, good for that. But I would turn to her and I'd be like, "Mom, I love these Jimmy Choo shoes but I really could use help with my rent, or I could use help with food and things like that," and she was like, "Nope." She was like, "You know, it's really important that you make it on your own, you're a professional woman. It's really important that you cover the basics of your life on your own." She's like, "But I'm here to show you what to aspire to."

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
"The reason that you're working hard and to show you that it's okay when you do make that money later in life to treat yourself, and just spend a little bit of that money on yourself."

Bobbi Rebell:
Nice. So for our listeners, what is the lesson from that? What is the takeaway? How can they apply it to their own lives?

Randi Zuckerber:
For me at the time, it definitely felt a little frustrating. It was frustrating that I could barely afford a Metro Card but I had this closet full of beautiful designer shoes. But at the end, when I do look back now on those periods of my life, I'm proud of myself for supporting myself. Even though it was hard. Even though I was barely making any money at all, I look back on those years with pride that I took care of all my own living expenses, that I made it on my own. And I actually still have those Jimmy Choo shoes in my closet as a reminder, the first big girl items that I really ever owned, and they always serve as a reminder to me that the reason that we work so hard in life is not just to accumulate wealth or status. It's so we can treat ourselves and we can treat the people we love, and we can really enjoy our lives and our money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And so would you do the same lesson with your own children, knowing what you know now?

Randi Zuckerber:
Maybe I would keep the receipt in the box in case they needed to return it to help pay their rent. My mom used to take-

Bobbi Rebell:
So wait, did you ever try to return the shoes?

Randi Zuckerber:
No, she purposely would take the receipts home with her so I couldn't, and in those days there wasn't eBay to sell them on or things like that. But honestly, if my kids were motivated and ambitious and driven enough to think of ways to resell them, then that's great, that's teaching them an entrepreneurial lesson.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk about your money tip, because it's something we haven't talked about here on Financial Grownup, in part because I don't know a lot about it, and that's kind of your point. What is your money tip?

Randi Zuckerber:
So my money tip is to make sure that you're not just focusing all of your effort on learning about the systems that are already in place. Make sure that you're spending some time thinking about the new financial trends that are going to be coming out in the next few years. Specifically I think the biggest trend that's going to hit this industry is cryptocurrency and blockchain. I know I've personally spent a lot of time over the past two years learning about this space and educating myself, and I think it's so important for women especially to learn about this space, because right now only about 2% of cryptocurrency is owned and traded by women. And ladies, what's the use of catching up with our financial knowledge over here if we're then just going to be completely left behind in ten years on the next new thing that's making all of these new millionaires? I don't know about you guys, I don't want to be left out of the next thing that's making all these millionaires, so I think it's really important, even if you're not investing in this space, to at least understand it enough to be able to participate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where is the best place people can learn more about it?

Randi Zuckerber:
I love listening to a lot of podcasts. I actually am so passionate about educating women that I literally just sat in my closet with a microphone this week and recorded a two-hour introduction to Bitcoin and Blockchain that I'm about to release. So I'll definitely give you more information on that, and it's specifically designed to teach women the basics of crypto.

Bobbi Rebell:
Perfect. So now we have where we can go, I will make sure to put the link into the show notes for everyone. So that's your gift to our listeners, thank you so much, Randi. This is great. Okay, so now we get back to what I really want to talk about. So I've got this book here with all of these ... I almost ran out of post-it notes, because I have so many post-it notes in the book, and we have to keep it short because this is a short podcast. But it's basically about being lopsided and being okay with that. And that's almost how you got into college, was just saying, "I'm not going to apologize for not being balanced."

Randi Zuckerber:
Totally, well I think, and I'm sure, Bobbi, when you think about the things in your life you're most proud of, the things you hope we're alive to tell our great-grandkids about, each of us have three or four things on that list that we're super proud of. It's probably not times in your life that you were super well-balanced. For me, that list right now is completing a marathon, singing on Broadway, being part of Facebook, and having my two children, and not one of those four things happened when I had balance in my life.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Randi Zuckerber:
All of those things happened when I really allowed myself to just go for it and be super lopsided and prioritize a few areas in my life at one time. And so I want to give especially women out there permission to pick three. Pick a few things in your life that you want to prioritize, because there will be other times and other phases to pick other things and round out your life. But just give yourself the permission to go for it and be excellent in whatever you want to do without the guilt.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love it. One of my favorite areas was when you talk about quick fixes if you're feeling exhausted, and I say that because this book is also very practical, because people feel overwhelmed and there are very specific solutions in the book. Even at the end there's worksheets so that people can make it applicable to their own lives and really make it specific and actionable.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you, well you know, I live in the real world. In an ideal world we'd all be getting a lot of sleep every night, and going to the gym, and spending time with our children every day, and doing all of these things, but at the end of the day we all live in the real world, and I know that there's some days that you just cannot pick sleep. Your kids are sick, you have a deadline at work, there's something going on, you have an early plane to catch, so I tried to also, while encouraging people to pick different areas, also tried to give some hacks to actually get around it and still function in your life if you can't pick that one area.

Bobbi Rebell:
So it's three, and the five things that you're picking three from are sleep, work, friends, family and fitness, and the great thing about the book is you break down each one.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yes. I try to break it down, and I also really tried to interview a mixture of people across all ages and walks of life. Because if you're in the position that you can pick which areas of your life you want to prioritize then you're in a real state of privilege, that everything in your life is going so well that you can choose. There are a lot of people out there who have life circumstances where they just can't choose what they want to focus on. Life picks for them. And so I wanted to make sure that all different people are represented.

Bobbi Rebell:
Randi, where can people find you and learn more about everything you're up to, including Pick Three?

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much, I have been known to be available on a few social media channels.

Bobbi Rebell:
A few.

Randi Zuckerber:
Yup, [inaudible 00:13:14] Facebook, and one's owned by Facebook. But yes, you can find me on Facebook, on Instagram and Twitter, I'm @randizuckerberg, and then Pick Three is available on Amazon or any of your favorite bookstores. I love indie bookstores and promoting them, so go pick it up at a cool indie bookstore near you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations on all, and keep in touch.

Randi Zuckerber:
Thank you so much Bobbi, this is awesome, love your podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, I think we all have a good sense of how Randi stays so grounded despite literally being on the go all the time. I have been personal witness to that. Prioritize and keep perspective.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number one: You may have noticed that one area of Randi's book really hit me. All of our lives look like so much fun online. So many of us, myself included, have felt a little wistful when we see photos and videos of friends who always seem to be vacationing while in the perfect outfit, and going to a fantastic concert where of course they get to see Beyonce and hang out with her and Jay-Z backstage. Just kidding, but only about part of that. But we are all actually usually happy that they're having fun, it's not necessarily competitive, but still. Remember, it is a curated version of their life. Real life can't be edited, and filters don't work outside of the digital world. Randi's advice that really resonates with me? Flip that back to what you can control, and be a little more intentional about what you post, about the image that you put out there to other people. Don't just post your own perfect moments, try to be more authentic with your social media, and maybe we'll all get the hint and be a little more real.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: Let's all go out and learn about Bitcoin. I said learn, not invest, though you can if it's right for you. The truth is, as Randi said, we may be missing a big opportunity. I always think of famous investors like Warren Buffett who say they don't invest in anything they don't understand. So let's understand and make a decision from a point of understanding and information. I was recently at a retreat called Statement Event, it was women thought leaders, a very small group of us, about 17. We had dinner with a CEO of a company called Empower, and he asked this group of all women how many of us talked about Bitcoin as an investment option for our followers or listeners. The room got silent. He asked, had we really investigated? Nope. I'm going to check out Randi's tutorial, and I will leave the link for you guys as well. Let me know what you think. Make sure to pick up your copy of her new book, Pick Three: You Can Have It All (Just Not Every Day) and write a review for Randi. Authors love reviews.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. The show has been growing, so please keep sharing on social media, writing reviews on iTunes aka Apple Podcast, and subscribing if you have not already so you don't miss any upcoming episodes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have a money story that you want to share? Maybe a great money tip? We are starting to have listeners as guests once a month, so to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and just tell us what money story and money tip you would share if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
To learn more about the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, Facebook I am at Bobbi Rebell. Randi Zuckerberg really nailed it in this episode, helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

When Liz Thames and her husband adopted their dog Gracie they went on a spending bender buying up countless toys and treats for their new baby. But instead their precious pet taught them a lesson in values that helped shape the parents and family they became. 

In Liz’s money story you will learn:

-The story of how Liz and her husband adopted their first pet, Gracie

-The costs involved in adopting a dog

-How much money they spent before getting the dog, and what they bought

-How Gracie reacted to all the toys and treats

In Liz’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to figure out what you really need to buy for your family

-How marketing can confuse us and create a false need

-The importance of waiting to find out what is truly needed during a life change, such as having a child

-How to fight back against a scarcity mindset

-Specific tips on how to be frugal like Liz, including using social media as a tool

In Liz’s money tip you will learn:

-How she was able to take yoga classes by bartering

-The specific language and approach if you want to barter with a business

In my take you will learn:

-Why you should consider selling your used baby products, especially big ticket items like strollers

-My personal story of selling my son’s stroller

-My take on pet insurance

Episode Links

Get Liz Thames Book Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living. 

Learn more about Liz on her website Frugalwoods.com

Follow Liz!

Twitter @frugalwoods

Facebook Frugalwoods

Instagram Frugalwoods

---

Transcription

Bobbi:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message comes from Transfer Wise. The cheaper way to send money internationally. Transfer Wise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come up sending money abroad. Test it out for free at Transfer Wise.com slash podcast or download the app.

Liz:
We probably spent I don't know several hundred dollars on dog stuff which is more than we spent on either of our children by the way before they were born. So it was once she came into our lives we could then learn what she really needed and we could calibrate our purchases to her actual needs which apparently was a kitchen towel.

Bobbi:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, [inaudible 00:01:02] and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi:
Hey everyone. Pet lovers this is especially for you and if you're like me, your pets are like your children. There's nothing you wouldn't do for them. But there are things that you shouldn't do for them including overspending. Liz Thames is the author of Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living. And in fact many of her fans knew her only as Mrs. Frugalwoods until recently. But as you will learn Liz was not always as frugal as she is now. Here is Liz Thames, aka Mrs. Frugalwoods.

Bobbi:
Liz Thames aka Mrs. Frugalwoods, you're a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Liz:
Thank you so much for having me.

Bobbi:
And congratulations are in order for your new book, Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living. Did I get that right?

Liz:
You did.

Bobbi:
Okay. All right. We're going to talk more about the book but I want to hear more about your life in Vermont and your money story which has to do with something near and dear to my heart which is of course our pets.

Liz:
Yes. A number of years ago my husband and I decided we were ready to adopt a dog. We had wanted a dog for years but we'd been renters and we had moved around a lot. I'd been in grad school. Not a good time to get a dog because when you get a dog, you need to think about who's going to care for them all day long. When you're moving around and you're renting an apartment and you're not home because you're in grad school and working full time in order to get free tuition. You don't really have the time to care for a pet. It was a big decision for us to finally come to that moment where we owned a home and we felt like we had the time and the money to dedicate to having a dog. We adopted a gray hound which is a rescue dog. It's a really frugal way to get a pet and it's also a wonderful way of giving a pet a new home.

Liz:
So, gray hounds are-

Bobbi:
By the way, there are some costs when you adopt a pet.

Liz:
Oh absolutely. Yes. There are ... It's like with children. There's just kind of the costs just keep on going but it's yes, so you do pay a fee when you adopt a dog. Then you need to think about their long term health care as well. One of the things that we thought when we first adopted our dog was that she needed everything. We had waited years to get this dog; we were going to lavish her with all of the wonderful dog things. We went to PetSmart and just cruised the aisles and bought you know "Oh we need this. We need this" like impulse shop for this dog and bought all these toys. All of these kongs. You know what those are? You put peanut butter in it.

Bobbi:
What's a kong?

Liz:
It's like this round thing that you put peanut butter or treats in and the dog-

Bobbi:
Are dogs supposed to eat peanut butter? I don't know.

Liz:
Purportedly they stick their snout in it and lick it out. I don't know. I have like four[crosstalk 00:04:04]

Bobbi:
Are they supposed to eat peanut butter? I don't know.

Liz:
I don't know. They told us she could.

Bobbi:
Okay.

Liz:
But our dog had zero use for all of this stuff. She looked at it and was like no thanks and took a red kitchen towel out of our kitchen and said, this is my toy and she decided that she really didn't need a lot in life and that was a great lesson for us. That we kind of had bought into this consumer notion that in order to be good dog parents, we needed to provide all of this stuff for her. When in reality all she needed was a safe, warm space and lots and lots of walks and play time outside. It was just so illuminating for us that uh wow, we really bought into this marketing trope of what it means to have a dog.

Bobbi:
It reminds me of when people buy all these toys for babies. Maybe toddlers let's say and then all the toddler wants to do is play in the box that the toys came in.

Liz:
Oh a 100 percent. Yes. My daughter the other day got in a box and was like, "It's a boat". "I'm sailing down the river". This is an empty cardboard box. Just like excellent. I am really glad you have that imagination and I'm really glad I didn't buy any toys for you.

Bobbi:
Totally. So how much do you think you spent on toys and unnecessary just stuff for your- what's your dog's name?

Liz:
Our dog was Gracie better known as frugal hound and she sadly passed away earlier this year.

Bobbi:
Oh. I'm so sorry.

Liz:
Thank you. But it's wonderful to talk about her and to realize sort of the important role that she had in our lives. She was our first child and she really taught us what we needed to know about parenting which is that you do not need to buy a ton of stuff. It's also true that we bought things preemptively before she was even part of our lives. We probably spent to your question I don't know several hundred dollars on dog stuff which is more than we spent on either of our children by the way before they were born. Once she came into our lives we could then learn what she really needed and we could calibrate our purchases to her actual needs which apparently was a kitchen towel.

Bobbi:
And it's interesting because you actually learned from Gracie how to not over prepare and buy in advance for your children, your human children, when they came along. In a way she taught you a good lesson in budget parenting.

Liz:
Really.

Bobbi:
So what is the lesson then for our listeners and how can this apply not just to pet owners but to everyone?

Liz:
We are surrounded almost every single day by messages that tell us we need more stuff. There is always something more to buy for whatever phase of life you're in. Whether you have pets or you have kids or you don't have either of those things but you have a great interest in hiking or rock climbing or whatever it might be. There will always be this huge list of things that we're told that we need. I think marketing really makes us feel as though we need to have those things in order to be happy and to be fulfilled to be able to do the things we want to do with our lives. What I've realized over the years is that there really is no way to buy happiness. There is no way to sort own everything that you need to own. As soon as you reach that point, you'll realize there's more stuff or you need newer stuff or bigger stuff.

Liz:
This applies to everything from houses and cars all the way down to the clothes that we wear and the food that we buy. I think when you can sort of step outside of that consumer carousel and really identify what it is that you actually need on a daily basis. You'll realize it's quite a bit less than we're told we need.

Bobbi:
You also it seems learned that you can wait. We live in such a culture of abundance here in the United States that had you waited to buy the dog toys and evaluated whether you need them, it's not like they wouldn't have been there. There's no fear that it won't be there if you don't buy in advance. The same thing applies to children and for ourselves. We don't necessarily need to stock up a head of time. We can almost like the stores now do with as needed inventory. We can almost act that way for ourselves.

Liz:
So true and I think we often have this scarcity mindset that we won't have an [inaudible 00:08:22] we won't be able to provide for kids or our pets or our families. When in reality, we probably have plenty and we probably can make do with what we already own. My other favorite thing to do is source things used. Used cars, used furniture, used stuff for my kids. You can save 50, 75 percent sometimes 90 percent off of what something would have originally cost just by getting it used. There are so many sources right now of used things. Craig's List of course everybody knows about. Buy nothing groups. Buy and sell groups on Facebook. Just talking with your neighbors and friends. Finding hand me downs. Of course finding fantastic things on the side of the road which I advise caution but really can be done to great effect.

Liz:
Essentially looking at ways to not buy new. This not only saves you money but is environmentally friendly. It takes away a lot of that paralysis by analysis that I get when I'm looking at Amazon and reading 500 reviews. Like, "I don't know which toddler sippy cup to buy". If you just get it used, you kind of remove all of that stress and time from your search.

Bobbi:
And for your money tip Liz you're going to help us all live healthier for less.

Liz:
Yes. It's often possible to exercise for free by bartering or trading with your exercise studio. When I lived in Cambridge outside of Boston, I volunteered at the front desk of my yoga studio in exchange for free yoga classes. This was something I didn't realize was possible until I tried to save as much as I could every month and realized I was spending tons and tons of money on yoga classes. I think it's easy for us to look at exercise and think, "Oh I'm happy to spend on that because it's a good thing". And it is a good thing but you can often do it for free and I've heard from readers who have accomplished this at Crossfit studios, Pilates, ballet just about any type of exercise that the studio is often looking for this opportunity to make a barter or a trade. I used to take out the trash, sweep the floors, work at the front desk. Free yoga.

Bobbi:
How much do you estimate you saved?

Liz:
Doing that it was thousands of dollars. It's another great example of how costs really compound over the course of a year. You might only be spending 50 dollars, a 100 dollars, 200 dollars a month on exercising but when you think about how much that is over the course of a year and how much that money could do for you if you instead invested it or used it in a wiser way. It really becomes pretty profound. When you start to apply this to every line item in your budget, then you really can start to see astronomical savings.

Bobbi:
How did you approach the yoga studio because a lot of people might say well that's great but that's kind of a weird conversation. To be a client there and just sort of say, "Oh can I take out the trash and go to yoga for free"? How did that actually happen?

Liz:
Fortunately for me they had a poster up that advertised this program and so I was able to just email the email address on the poster but I know that this type of work study program often exists in studios. You can just ask, "Do you have any type of work study program where I could volunteer in exchange for classes"? And if they say no nothing is lost. They've said no. If they say yes, fabulous. You've now got an opportunity to get free classes.

Bobbi:
All great. I love that idea. Tell us more about your book and where people can find you.

Liz:
The book is Meet the Frugalwoods: Achieving Financial Independence Through Simple Living and it is a memoir about the financial journey that essentially I've been on and that ultimately led me to living on a homestead in Vermont. You can find the book on Amazon, at Barnes and Noble, at any local bookstore anywhere that books are sold.

Bobbi:
And where can people find you? Social media, website all that good stuff?

Liz:
Sure. So it's all Frugalwoods across the board. My website is: Frugalwoods.com and you can find me on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook at Frugalwoods.

Bobbi:
Liz you are wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us.

Liz:
Oh thank you for having me.

Bobbi:
Okay everyone. Liz totally delivered in this episode especially with taking the lessons from buying habits with Gracie and then taking those lessons and applying them when she became a parent to humans. Financial grownup tip number one. Liz talked about buying used stuff for your kid. Don't forget to sell stuff. For example, we were gifted an incredible and very pricey stroller when my son was born. We kept it in good shape and when he outgrew it, we posted it in a Facebook group and we were able to sell it to a local person for more than half the original cost which was still several hundred dollars. It pays off. Financial grownup tip number two. A word about pets. They are expensive. While you can easily avoid luxury pet wardrobes if that's your thing, that's fine but you can avoid it. It's a choice.

Bobbi:
You cannot neglect their health. Make sure you have a very big budget for that. I can take my Morkie in for a checkup and a routine vaccine and walk out with a very large bill. I also want to talk about pet insurance. It is also very expensive and can be limited in its coverage. In many cases it is not something that makes financial sense if you do the math. My family decided to have it for our Morkie for one reason. We never wanted to make a health decision about her after consulting our bank account.

Bobbi:
Pet health care expenses when they do need care beyond the routine, can put owners in a very tough positions. You may be asked to pay let's say a 1000 dollars for a bunch of tests. How do you say no? Then the tests show the pet needs a procedure; another bill. Then therapy and so on. It adds up and our pets are priceless but our money is finite. At a certain point you could be put in the position of saying, "Is so many more months worth this many more dollars"? Well the answer is usually going to be yes because we're human and we love our pets. The reality is that decision could very easily derail other financial needs, obligations and plans.

Bobbi:
If you get a pet, research pet insurance and make an informed decision. It is expensive. Usually it's only affordable if you get it when your pet is young. It's worth being proactive early on.

Bobbi:
All right. If you have not heard yet, I am very excited about this. We are going to start having one guest a month. Be a listener. If you want to be considered email us at info@financialgrownup and tell us what money story and what money tip you would share if you were chosen. If you have not already, please subscribe and help us spread the word by sharing on social media. I am at Bobbi Rebell at Twitter, on Instagram I am at Bobbi Rebell1 and go to BobbiRebell.com forward slash financial grownup podcast to learn more about the show and to sign up for mailing list so you can hear about things like how to be a guest on the show.

Bobbi:
I hope that you enjoyed Liz's story and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Comedian Catie Lazarus does not just host Employee of the Month, she also runs the business that supports it. Being the boss means setting realistic expectations for her team, and dealing with those who aren’t on board with her mission. 

In Catie’s money story you will learn:

-The real reason Catie started “Employee of the Month"

-The behind-the-scenes challenges of running a live show/podcast

-The employer side of pay negotiation

-Why Catie is talking about lobsters and diners and how that relates to deciding the right compensation

In Catie’s money lesson you will learn:

-How to evaluate if your pay expectations are realistic for the company or organization that you want to work for or if you need to rethink your approach

-How to tell the difference between being unfairly underpaid, and being paid what the employer can afford

-The benefits of being flexible with your compensation, if the position aligns with your goals

In Catie’s money tip you will learn:

-Her tips on negotiating

-How to navigate the implicit and explicit biases in the work place

-How Catie incorporates her degree in clinical psychology into her business decisions and negotiations

-Strategies to use statistics in your negotiations

In my take you will learn:

-Why and how to take the big picture into account when asking for a raise

-The importance of keeping up your work quality and attitude even if you are turned down for a raise or promotion

-Why it is ok to do something a second or even a third time until you get it right. 

-It’s not about perfection but it is about doing your best, and presenting the best product. 

Episode Links

EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH https://www.employeeofthemonthshow.com/

Follow Catie and Employee of the Month!

Instagram Catie_Lazarus

Twitter @catielazarus

Facebook EOTM

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from Transferwise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. Transferwise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Catie Lazarus:
Well, I paid him and I never used him again. Fast forward, after that show, a very big corporation asked recommendations for audio engineers. So, of course, I recommended all of the people who hadn't asked for that, who had seen rightly. It's not that they devalued themselves, it's that they showed perspective and that, I saw, as a really important trait when recommending someone to someone else.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup and you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Friends, people often ask me, "How do I get these incredible and, often, really high-profile guests?" Well, the answer is simple. Perseverance and having high standards. The interview you are about to hear is the third attempt made to get this woman on for you guys. She's amazing. I had to have her on. First, we had a last minute rescheduling because she lost her voice. Then, we actually did tape an episode but she wasn't happy. She has a really high bar and she wanted to re-tape the show. High standards, my friends. Do it till you get it right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Catie Lazarus is a comedian who does not come to anything with less than her best. She joked that she is not a financial grownup but you're going to see, she absolutely is. Catie is running a business. She is making tough money decisions. You may know her as the host of Employee of the Month. It is a live show about working that is also a podcast. She interviews everyone from John Stewart to Lin-Manuel Miranda, Maya Rudolph and, famously, Jon Hamm. Here is Catie Lazarus.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Catie Lazarus, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Catie Lazarus:
Thank you, Bobbi, I'm one of your biggest fans or, at least, I am a huge fan of yours.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I'm a huge fan of yours.

Catie Lazarus:
I was so thrilled when you came to the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your new Employee of the Month. Taped live podcast.

Catie Lazarus:
Exactly. Exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
Celebrity studied extravaganza.

Catie Lazarus:
You know it's funny, 'cause I've had everyone from FBI agents and taxidermists and the lice lady and a former pick-pocket to, as you know, John Stewart and Rachel Maddow and Jon Hamm and Maya Rudolph and some of the others, so, it does range and that's, I think, what's nice about having this One-On-One podcast, as you know?

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Catie Lazarus:
As well as these live shows where you get to see an variety of guests, as you did.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, by the way, it is a beautiful spring day in New York City and I hear the birds chirping behind you because you're a woman on the go so you're taping outside, which is kind of awesome.

Catie Lazarus:
I want to apologize because I know that the sound quality may not be as good because I'm outside, however, once you hear my voice, it actually might be better.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's all good. It's all good and you brought a really good money story. Tell us.

Catie Lazarus:
So, I started this show, Employee of the Month, 'cause I could not figure out how to get a job writing for The Weather Channel. I got hired to be an assistant on A Bee Movie, and I don't mean a B-grade movie, I mean a movie about bees by a very famous comedian and, at the last minute, the studio went with so-and-so's niece. You know I'd have these-

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course. Of course.

Catie Lazarus:
I was walking to the subway, kind of thing. And so I started my show to understand, not just how people break in, but how did they sustain careers. And you're here in New York and maybe this is a good way to say, "When you're starting out on your own, you may not be able to afford an office." Even a wee workspace. You may work from home. It may be DIY and that certainly was the case with my- [crosstalk 00:04:07].

Bobbi Rebell:
It's about being authentic, Catie, you're authentic.

Catie Lazarus:
Well, what I was also going to say on that note is, I made a joke with you earlier. I said, "When you walk into a diner, you don't order the lobster unless you wanna, you know, figure out what salmonella tastes like or find yourself ... maybe you don't wanna go home. Maybe you don't have a place to stay so you would order a lobster in a diner so that you would end up in the hospital and that would be the place you stay that night."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So your money story. I need to put you back on track, Catie. Okay. Let's go to your money story. Your money story is about people hitting you up for money. You're this struggling comedian.

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. So my money story is that you want what you want, but you also need to see what's in front of you. And so when people have come to me demanding wages that I just simply couldn't offer, it was as if they had walked into a diner and demanded a lobster.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, what do you mean? They were asking to borrow money or you were hiring them? What was going on?

Catie Lazarus:
I would be hiring people and they would want ... this would happen very rarely, but it happened. It happened with a couple audio engineers where they wanted money that they deserved to get if they are working at a corporation. They deserved to get it, maybe, even if they worked at a non-profit so they were-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, so it wasn't a judgment of the value of their work, it was a judgment of your budget?

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. And they're just simply ... It is what it is. It's nothing personal. I wish it was bigger. I wish that I made money too.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what would happen when this would ha ... I mean is there one incident that stands out?

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. Because I have to say that most of the people who worked on my show worked on my show forever and that, I will tell you at the end, why. So I have a really great team in place. But, on occasion, I would hire someone because I needed someone last minute and this happened with one specific person, a guy who came in and he was from a very small town and I always ask before I hire someone, I say, "What do you want to get out of this?" Because I know from my own experience that sometimes working at organizations that don't have as big a name, don't have as much clout or cachet, you, actually, get to do more work and you get to really learn on the job, which is a positive. And I asked him and he said, "I really wanna be part of something small." But the truth was is that he didn't. So he wanted to get paid really well.

Catie Lazarus:
Well, I paid him and I never used him again but, fast forward, after that show, a very big corporation asked recommendations for audio engineers so, of course, I recommended all of the people who hadn't asked for that, who had seen rightly. It's not that they devalued themselves, it's that they showed perspective. And that, I saw, as a really important trait when recommending someone to someone else.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because you have to be realistic about what the budget is for the organization that you're working for. It's not that you're not worth it, it's that this is what this is the project is. Yeah, so what's the lesson then from this story?

Catie Lazarus:
So I think the lesson is to look at what you're going into and ask yourself, "What do I want and what can I get?" And if the answer is, "I want to make money." Well, then you should probably go to an institution that has a track record of making money. If you want to be part of a really creative, artistic show that has tremendous potential for learning a skill, for perfecting a skill, for having ownership, an agency, all of those things, my show has always delivered. And that's why 99.9% of my staff has been with me for so long. My team, really.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awe. That's so great.

Catie Lazarus:
Yeah, and they're fabulous and we work together versus working for me. Now, if you're going to a bank, I'm not gonna name any, but if you're going to a bank or you're going to another kind of corporation, there is a sense that you work for someone.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Catie Lazarus:
Whereas, I treat my show as I work with you, even if you're my intern. You work with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I wanna talk about your money tip. It's, sort of, the flip side of this because you're talking about when you're on the receiving end of someone trying to negotiate with you but you also, in your business now, are constantly being in the position of having to negotiate for yourself in an environment that can be very precarious.

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. And so the hardest part, I find, as a creative person or anyone who's independent and particularly in a culture now where everyone has to be a brand even if you're a peace activist, on some level, you, somehow, have to find yourself as a brand. Pro-peace is not enough. With that in mind, I was short changing myself and I'm talking about with corporations and companies, not with other peers. And part of the challenge is is that there are implicit and explicit biases which the Me Too movement and Black Lives Matter and all of ... Pay Parity, all of these things have really shed tremendous light on it. I'm so thrilled that people are speaking out and having the courage to do so because it's really hard. How do you negotiate if women, typically, make less than men? How, as a female, do I go in and negotiate?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So your money tip is about how to negotiate?

Catie Lazarus:
So I decided that I was gonna try to be jovial about it and the reason that I chose to be jovial, meaning humorous, it's still serious. You need to get paid.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, how much you get paid is a very serious thing.

Catie Lazarus:
Well, the approach. Exactly what you were saying, Bobbi, is that you want to not make it personal so it's not that that person is intentionally trying to be biased against me any more than I'm intentionally trying to be biased against someone else. So, instead of making it about us, I would make a joke about now women are statistically paid less than men, so I wanna make sure that neither of us falls prey to it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you're calling them out.

Catie Lazarus:
I'm calling it out. Instead of-

Bobbi Rebell:
Calling it out. Yes.

Catie Lazarus:
Yes. So I'm calling the problem out versus the person.

Bobbi Rebell:
So can you go through an example of how you use this? What kind of language would you use?

Catie Lazarus:
A lot of times companies will say, "You know, you're gonna to get a lot of exposure if you go with us." So let's say, we're gonna hire you. You may or may not get exposure from that as anyone who's actually has experience in the business knows, including myself, and that's really up to you, whether that's what you're going in to get. If I'm going in because I'd like to pay my rent, pay for the dentist, what money people do when they go for major jobs. In that scenario, it's okay for me to joke about it a little bit and bring up the subject just like I said. So I stick with the facts which is that women are statistically paid less and, in fact, whether you're a woman of color becomes even more of an issue. So I stick with the facts and then I just make a very light joke about, "I don't want either of us to fall prey to it." Part of the reason I do that is so that I don't have to undermine myself either because I also carry these biases.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. So have you changed, recently, in how you approach people when you hire them? Are you looking at people differently?

Catie Lazarus:
Absolutely, in that I really strive ... I'm coming from [inaudible 00:10:44] a doctor in clinical psych. So I think that there's a part of me that always strives to be better at being mindful of who gets hired and on my talk show, as you know, I have as many female guests and LGBDT, I have guests of all ages and careers and all of this reflects on a desire to see the world as larger than myself. Even if it's harder to get certain kinds of guests 'cause I may not know as many people in that age range or whatever it is or that field or whatever the different points are that create true inclusivity.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, I just want to have one more moment with you to have you tell us a little bit more about the show, Employee of the Month. What's next with it and tell us where people can hear it.

Catie Lazarus:
We're, actually, going to be going on the road, so if people go to employeeofthemonthshow.com, you can find out if we'll be in a major city near you. You can also listen to the podcast One-On-One and I highly encourage you to go and look through the back files because there's everyone from Lin-Manuel Miranda to Jon Hamm and Maya Rudolph on my show and it's a lot of fun. Even Cynthia Nixon before she ran for governor.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know. That's interesting. That's for another show. Alright, and on social media, where can people follow you, be in touch with you, all that good stuff?

Catie Lazarus:
I'm on Instagram and the Twitter and Employee of the Month has a Facebook page which Putin may or may not also be checking out. So you can go to @employeeofthemonth and Catie is spelled with a C, C-A-T-I-E and then Lazarus, L-A-Z-A-R-U-S.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're wonderful, Catie Lazarus. Thank you so much.

Catie Lazarus:
Thank you, Bobbi, as are you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Here's my take on what Catie had to say. Financial grownup tip number one. When you go to your boss and ask for a raise, be mindful of the economics of the business. You may be worth more but only to another company that has a bigger budget. Sometimes, the company you work for, actually, cannot afford to pay you more or there are business reasons they choose not to, even if you deserve it. If you make the choice to stay, own that decision and do the best job you can. Don't be that person who complains all day but keeps showing up. You know that person. We've all had them at work. I've had them at every job. You just think, "If this place is so bad, leave." Put a smile on and make it work. But it's also okay to leave for a place that can afford to pay you more. Your employer may not be happy to lose you, but the truth is, they probably know that they can't afford to keep you. They will probably wish you well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. Sometimes, consider a do-over when you aren't happy with the results. Not only did Catie ask to re-tape her episode, I, myself, have gone to guests and asked them to re-tape their episodes or to come up with more original or compelling stories and money tips to share if I'm not happy with the show or the plan for the show they're going to be on. It can be uncomfortable, at first. But every single time, it results in a better show, a happier guest and, often, a thank you for making the effort to make them sound and come off even better than other shows.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is a wrap on the Catie Lazarus episode. If you want to be a guest on the show and have high standards, like Catie, write to us at info@financialgrownup.com to be considered for our new, once-a-month, listener episodes. Include, in the email, the money story that you wanna share, the lesson and, of course, a very original and compelling everyday money tip. Be sure to subscribe, if you have not already, so you don't miss any upcoming episodes and follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1 and for more on the show, go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. I am such a Catie Lazarus fan. I can't wait for the next Employee of the Month podcast. Make sure you subscribe to that, as well. She is the best and thanks to Catie for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

“The Big Life” author and former Seventeen Magazine Editor-in-Chief Ann Shoket’s boss literally mocked her when she asked to get paid more as a young magazine editor. Now, she knows better. Ann shares the one thing she does to find out what to ask for in negotiations, and how she leverages it to make more money. 

 

In Ann’s money story you will learn:

-How as a young magazine editor, Ann loved her job, but her compensation was not in line with her contributions. 

-How Ann prepared to approach her manager about a raise

-The shocking reason the manager denied her request

-The uncharacteristic response Ann gave to his pushback

-Exactly what Ann would do if she could do it over

In Ann’s lesson you will learn:

-How the resources of today could have helped Ann get that raise

-The specific advice Ann offers millennials 

-Where and how exactly listeners can get the information they need to better negotiate

-How to find out what you are worth in the job market

In Anne’s money tip you will learn:

-The best way to approach colleagues and friends to share salary and compensation information

-How e-mail vs IRL compare in sharing sensitive information about compensation and other career advice 

-Why it is so important to Ann that she help other women

-The specific language Ann uses in her conversations about money and other compensation with her peers

-How to handle issues of competition with peers and colleagues after sharing information

-What Ann learned from millennials about transparency

In my take you will learn:

-The importance of creating networks and career allies to share pay and other relevant information

-How to decide and communicate boundaries regarding the information

-How to decide if it is best to share information over email or IRL

-The importance of security when sharing sensitive information online

 

Episode Links:

Ann’s Ted Talk: Why We Should All Be More Millennial 

Anne’s book The Big Life: Embrace the Mess, Work Your Side Hustle, Fie a Monumental Relationship and Become the Badass Babe You Were Meant to Be

Anne's website:

AnnShoket.com

Follow Ann!!

Twitter @annshoket

Instagram: @annshoket

Facebook Ann.Shoket

LinkedIn Ann Shoket

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
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Ann Shoket:
He looked at me and he said, "You know Ann, you don't go into journalism to get rich." I was so stunned. I wasn't asking to get rich, I just wanted to pay my bills.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone. So this episode is going to be a treat and perfect for anyone that feels they could, and let's face it, should, be earning more money. You may have a boss you need to convince or you may have your own business and need to figure out how to charge your clients more and grow your business. Ann Shoket is a big name. She first became famous as the editor-in-chief of Seventeen Magazine and was named by Forbes to be one of the most powerful U.S. fashion magazine editors. More recently, she penned The Big Life and started a Badass Babes community. And being a badass herself, she also has an amazing TED Talk called Why We Should All Be More Millennial. Which brings us to the advice she is going to share, because it is about using that idea to get paid more money. Here is Ann Shoket.

Bobbi Rebell:
Ann Shoket, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Ann Shoket:
Oh, I'm so excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulation on your massive bestseller, The Big Life, and more recently your TED Talk, which I've now watched a number of times. You are literally the Jane Goodall of millennials, so I'm so excited to be talking with you.

Ann Shoket:
Thank you. I have devoted my career to understanding millennials and supporting them and helping them find their power.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which brings us to the money story that you're going to share, which really has to do with trading money for meaning at work. Because of the importance really of meaning, because we spend so much time at work.

Ann Shoket:
So when I was sort of mid-level editor coming up in the world, just past the stage of eating ramen and scrounging and going to happy hours to have dinner, where I had some experience under my belt and a little bit of a salary, I was creating new content for my company and doing great innovations and I wanted to get paid more. And I remember I walked into my boss and I came in with a list of things that I had achieved, I'm no dummy, you know, you come in with these [crosstalk 00:03:09].

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were prepared, right.

Ann Shoket:
It wasn't entitlement, I was prepared for this conversation, and he looked at me and he said, "You know Ann, you don't go into journalism to get rich." And I was so stunned. I wasn't asking to get rich, I just wanted to pay my bills. And frankly, I wanted to get paid for the work I was doing and for the good work that I knew I was bringing them. And I remember feeling instantly small, as if I had asked for too much or my ambition was too obvious, and I backed off of my request. I felt small, I retreated. He made me feel like I should feel lucky to be in that position. And maybe it's true, it's a competitive world that we're in-

Bobbi Rebell:
But you had worked for that position. I mean, yes, many other people would love to be in that position but you had earned it and you were working.

Ann Shoket:
And probably the worst part is I loved my job, I really did and he knew it. I loved my job, I was engaged, I was doing good work, I was doing work I felt was meaningful. I was on my path to finding what felt like my purpose, I was doing something real. And he used that to make me feel small in a salary negotiation and I didn't go for the big dollars and I didn't push hard and I backed off immediately. And could I do it all over again, I might have left that meeting, gone back to my desk, and then come back with a nuts and bolts, "Here's what other people are making in my position." It was at a time where frankly we didn't have Glass Door, we didn't have a million ways to check our salaries, so I didn't know what other people were making.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, was it that other people were making more or that they were just paying you very little? We don't really know I guess, we don't know.

Ann Shoket:
I don't know.

Bobbi Rebell:
We don't know.

Ann Shoket:
I don't know. But had I had the resources available that we have today and had I had the benefit of greater perspective on the world, I would have taken that moment and figured out how to get paid what I thought I deserved at that time. I would have really pushed for it rather than feeling small and retreating.

Bobbi Rebell:
So now we are years later, you are the voice for so many millennials, you are teaching them so much. What is your lesson from this that you would share to them if they find themselves in a similar situation?

Ann Shoket:
Knowledge is power. So if you know what other people at your level, in your company, who sit next to you in the competitive company, are making then you have a much greater leverage to get paid what you deserve. Women say to me all the time, "I just want to get paid what I'm worth," and I am like, "That's great, except for how do you know what you're worth?" And the only way to know is to share your salary information.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Ann Shoket:
If you walk away from this interview right now with only one thing, it's share your salary information with a trusted colleague, someone who sits next to you, your regular lunch buddy, but share your salary information. It's not gratuitous, it's not for gossip purposes, but it's so that you know and are better prepared when you go into your own salary negotiation.

Bobbi Rebell:
So sticking to this theme for your money tip, you've talked about sharing your salary information but are there specific ways and specific resources that you can tell people about that can accomplish this goal? Because it's a little bit awkward to just go up to people and say, "Oh hey, tell me what you're making and I'll tell you what I make and it will be all good." I mean, how do you actually ... Are there certain things that you look for with someone that you feel you can trust them? Are there websites you can go to, are there chat groups? Specifically how does this happen? Because it's awkward, right?

Ann Shoket:
It is awkward and I'll tell you, the first time that someone asked me to ballpark my salary for them it came in an email-

Bobbi Rebell:
And was it a close friend, was it someone you knew well?

Ann Shoket:
It was a colleague.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Ann Shoket:
Not a close friend. It was a colleague and we had been supportive of each other over the years. And at first I was so shocked, I was like, "Can you believe the nerve of this woman! I would never share my salary information with her!" And I calmed down and tried to get a little perspective and I gave her some sort of halfway information that she may be able to use, I didn't go all the way.

Bobbi Rebell:
In writing, in writing.

Ann Shoket:
I did, I emailed her back in writing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Ann Shoket:
However, if I did it again I would 100% ballpark and tell her the number. I was so stunned by it but I realize she was so ahead of the curve in even asking. And I have since been in a position to help other women where I've talked about what I got paid and about the ins and outs of my book deal to help other women in getting their book deal. I have had women who have helped me as I've been building a speaking practice, women who've been tremendously supportive, because it's all brand new.

Ann Shoket:
You know, one of the things about having careers that are more complicated and more evolved than we ever planned for is that suddenly you're being thrust into totally new arenas and you have to figure out how to take the skills that you have but make them work in new places and in new ways. How do you do that unless somebody gives you the lay of the land? And so that's another piece of this sisterhood, this idea that we should all support each other so that we can rise together as women and be collaborative and powerful.

Bobbi Rebell:
I mean, just to be specific about this, how do you know when it's okay to trust somebody or do you try to ... You were comfortable doing it in an email, you don't feel you have to pick up the phone or meet someone in person.

Ann Shoket:
I think when you're talking real numbers, I think it's okay to send an email that says, "Hey, can I talk to you about this? I'm interested in finding out what you charge or how you got paid or how the deal went down," in an email, to be clear about what it is that you're asking them. But then to have the real nuts and bolts money conversation in person, I think is probably smart. That's how the last couple of conversations that I've had have gone. But I think it has to be someone you trust, who's not going to feel competitive, someone who's going to give you good, smart information. And I think that you find those people in your network, maybe they're not someone who sits next to you at work, maybe it's not your work wife, although you probably should share some of this information with your work wife. But it is people who are going to be in your life for a while, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Ann Shoket:
You're going to see them at industry events, you're going to be up for the same jobs, you're going to see them schmoozing here and there, you're going to see them at parities-

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you do if you find out that there's a big disparity?

Ann Shoket:
I think the only thing to do ... I mean, yes, maybe it's awkward with the two of you but I think it's better to say now you know and now you can go to your boss and let them know that you know and to be clear. One of the most interesting things about this transparency that millennials have brought into the world is that Gen Xers are so supremely uncomfortable with it, we think it's TMI and that it's oversharing and that the system, sort of old systems, are set up to keep you in line and to keep you not knowing. And those don't really serve us moving forward, the transparency that millennials are demanding is going to become second nature for all of us. And so I think it's a smart company that honors this kind of transparency rather than shuts it down.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. All right, Ann Shoket, I know that you are so busy on the speaker circuit and with all of your projects. Tell us more about what you're up to these days and where people can find you.

Ann Shoket:
So since the TED Talk, Why We Should All Be More Millennial, I have actually been doing a ton of speaking. It is, in so many ways, a love letter to millennials, to a generation that I believe is going to lead our future and is changing the way we define power and success. But it's also incredibly important for boomers and Xers, and there's this real tension at work between boomers and Xers and the millennial employees that are coming up behind them. And it is my goal to make everybody come together so that we can rise together as women.

Bobbi Rebell:
So where can people find you?

Ann Shoket:
Annshoket.com is the best, fastest way to find The Big Life, to find my speaking, to find my TED Talk.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is awesome, by the way. And on social media?

Ann Shoket:
Annshoket.com on Instagram, ann.shoket on Facebook, annshoket on Twitter. You can find me everywhere, I'm very easy to find. A-N-N, S-H-O-K-E-T.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much, this has been amazing.

Ann Shoket:
Thank you Bobbi, I love it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love how direct Ann was, I feel there were a lot of takeaways but this is what I'm going to focus on. Financial grownup tip number one, create networks and career allies to share pay and career information. But this is what I'm adding, treat it kind of like any successful relationship, in that you need to respect the boundaries and you also need to respect that even though you're being transparent with each other that doesn't mean that the information goes beyond that relationship, you need to respect the other person and their privacy. Be sure to vet someone also before you reveal too much, and keep the information that is said between the two of you, or the group, private unless it is clearly agreed that it is for public disclosure. Ann and I have shared career information and goals, but that remains private.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two. When you have these conversations, Ann points out that while you can initiate via email, you should have the real conversation in real life, in person, face to face. Meeting in person is worth the time, at the very least, do it by phone. On your end, you don't want to create a paper trail with information that you don't want to go beyond the intended recipient. No matter how well-intentioned they are, things happen, be secure with your information.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. The minute this podcast is over, I want everyone to go listen to Ann Shoket's TED Talk, Why We Should All Be More Millennial. I will leave a link in the show notes. Then check out her book, The Big Life, and follow her on social media. I want to hear your money story and get some great money tips from you, our listeners. We are going to be starting having one episode a month be a listener as our guest. If you want to be considered, email us at info@financialgrownup.com and tell us what money story, lesson, and money tip you would share.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. If you like what you are hearing please don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you won't miss any upcoming episodes. And of course, rate and review the show, especially on iTunes. Anywhere is good, but especially iTunes so more people can learn about the show. And on that note, please share this with a friend so we can share these stories with more people and help them live richer lives. Follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, learn more about the show at bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. I adore Ann and I hope you do now too. It was a great episode and here's to us all getting one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Chris Browning, host of the Popcorn Finance podcast got a clean bill of health for his wife after a hospital stay a few years ago. But despite having been patients there before, a billing mixup left his credit score needing intensive care. 

Chris’ Money Story:

Chris Browning:
Yes so you know, unfortunately my wife, she had to go in for surgery and which is never a good thing. So we went to the hospital, everything got taken care of. She's all well now. We figured we'd just get a bill in the mail, that's how most medical bills come, they just send you something in the mail.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did they do any paperwork while you were at the hospital? Did you give them insurance information? What actually transpired at the hospital? Because you do usually fill out some stuff.

Chris Browning:
Yeah, so leading up, you sit in the finance office and they have you sign a couple of waivers and disclosures. And they say. "Alright, let's see your insurance". They took a copy and they said, "Okay we'll bill you". And that's literally all they told me. No further information other than that.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the hospital was in Network? Do you remember?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was an in Network hospital.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were trying to be in Network, okay.

Chris Browning:
Yes, so we did everything we thought we were supposed to do and we visited the hospital before and the billing seemed to work fine, so you know we didn't even think twice about it. It felt normal.

Bobbi Rebell:
This might be important later on. You were in the system having visited the hospital before?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was a local hospital.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay.

Chris Browning:
So we just thought, we'll get a bill in the mail like we have in the past. We waited around, nothing came after a couple of months and to be honest, I kind of just forgot about it, because it had been so long and it just never showed up.

Bobbi Rebell:
I would totally forget about it.

Chris Browning:
Yeah, after two months, you assume you would receive it. After that, life just goes on. You do other things. You live life. And so, I have this habit of checking my credit score, because one of my credit cards on their app, they allow you to check your credit score for free, and they'll update it like every seven days. And so I was just taking a look at it, and I noticed my credit score had dropped like a crazy amount. It had dropped about 150 points. That was very alarming, to say the least. And so I decided to take a look in my credit report. And I went to freecreditreport.com. I saw this like delinquency mark and I was like, that's strange. I remember paying all my bills.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Chris Browning:
And when I looked into it, it just gave me just a random number. It didn't really give me a lot of details.

Bobbi Rebell:
Like a phone number?

Chris Browning:
Yeah, it was a random phone number from a ... it was an area code I'd never seen before. And so I gave the phone number a call, and then they gave me the details. They said this is from the hospital that we had visited, and they say you didn't pay your bill and it's been turned over to a collection agency. And this was the collection agency that I was speaking with.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Chris Browning:
I was just shocked and I was like, well how did this happen? And they have limited information.

Bobbi Rebell:
Sure.

Chris Browning:
And all they'd allow me to do at the time was they said, "Would you like to set up a payment plan?". And I was like, well yeah I want to get this cleared up. But I said, "Let me call the hospital first".

Bobbi Rebell:
Well right, and how do you even know they're legit. I mean they're saying they have the debt, but what exactly happened? Because you'd never heard from the hospital.

Chris Browning:
Exactly, so I was a little hesitant. I don't want to give you money just yet. So I called the hospital and got hold of billing department and I asked them. I said, "I see this delinquency on my credit report. They're saying that our bill was into collections, but we never received a bill in the mail". They said, "Well yeah, we mailed it out to you". And I said, "Well we haven't got anything for months". So they checked their system and they said, "Well here's the address we have for you", and it was the wrong address. They had transposed the numbers around, and who knows where the bill actually went.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is crazy because two things. First of all, you had been to this hospital before, so presumably you were in the system correctly at some point because you had paid previous bills. And number two, any company, any person, we should all do it, but certainly a company, a hospital, should have a return address. So if they were going to the wrong address, you would think that they would return the mail, and the hospital would receive it back.

Chris Browning:
Exactly. You think they'd be some type of notification for them to know that whatever they mailed out just came back.

Bobbi Rebell:
And they never called you.

Chris Browning:
They never called.

Bobbi Rebell:
But presumably your phone number is on there.

Chris Browning:
Exactly, you'd think if they hadn't been paid all this time, they'd have at least called to follow up. But no. I think maybe it's just the sheer volume they deal with. They don't even try, they just immediately send it to collections after the time period had passed.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then what did you do?

Chris Browning:
So after I verified with them what collection agency they actually sent the bill to, and it matched the information they I had received from the number I had called, I called the collection agency back, because at that point, the hospital said there's nothing we can do. It's been sold to collections, you know it's out of our hands. I called the number back, I spoke with them. I said, "Yes, we want to take care of this". And I said, "If we pay this off, is there a way that this could be removed from my credit report, because it's a huge mark on my credit?".

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's also not your fault.

Chris Browning:
Exactly. Because I explained to them, I said we just never received the bill. I didn't know what type of pushback I was going to get. If they were going to say no. But surprisingly they said, Yes. If you set up, if you agree to a payment plan now, they gave me the total amount. It matched what the hospital said it should be. They said, if you pay this off, we will contact the credit bureaus and have the delinquency removed, because you've taken care of this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course. That's the least they can do. Did the hospital take any ownership of the fact that they had not followed up?

Chris Browning:
Not at all.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's disappointing.

Chris Browning:
They basically just said, sorry, nothing we can do. It's out of our hands and it was on me to take care of it.

Bobbi Rebell:
And it's foolish on their part because generally, and I assume this was the case when you send something to a collection agency, they're only getting a fraction of what the bill was. So they lost out for not bothering and not having the right systems in place to check with you. Presumably the doctor could follow up with you and your wife, so they had contact information that was correct in some part of the system.

Chris Browning:
You'd think that if they knew they're going to lose money, that it'd be in their best interest to do a little more follow-ups, spend a little more time, but no, they just I guess, just dump it off.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, they lost money too. So that maybe there isn't the right stakeholder at the hospital that took ownership of the fact that that bill was not being paid for that reason.

Chris Browning:
Exactly.

Chris’ Money Lesson:

Chris Browning:
I would say first of all, make sure that you follow up on all your medical bills. Even if you think that the office is going to take care of it the way they should, you just never know. You could end up in the situation like this. So I do acknowledge that I could have called and followed up after a month of not hearing anything back.

Bobbi Rebell:
But maybe the insurance you were in Network, so if I was doing something in Network, I would have assumed that if I didn't get a bill, the insurance covered it.

Chris Browning:
I made that assumption too, but I think after this now, I'm going to be on the safe side.

Bobbi Rebell:
Of course.

Chris Browning:
I'm going to give them a call just to follow up if it's been like an unusually long amount of time since I haven't got any communication from them. Just to eliminate any issues or this ever happening again.

Chris Browning:
And the second thing I would say, check your credit score. I was really fortunate that that was a habit that I had picked up. You know we had been paying off some debts so I was in the habit of looking at my credit score to see how it was changing. That's the only reason I knew that there was any type of issue is because I saw my credit score had dropped drastically, and that triggered me to look at my credit report, and that's where I found the error, and I was able to finally take care of it.

Chris’ Money Tip:

Chris Browning:
So my money tip would be check with your credit card company, if you do have a credit card. Or even some banks. A lot of them offer access to your credit score and some even your credit report directly through their website or their mobile app. And so it's really simple. It's free a lot of the time and it's just a really convenient tool to have with you, and whether you're looking for errors or you just want to kind of track your progress. I think it's a really great incentive that these banks are offering to let you stay on top of your credit and your finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
And specifically, how often do you do that?

Chris Browning:
I've slowed down. I was a little obsessive. I was checking like every day at one point. Now I'm on a once per month basis. I'll log in, just kind of look and see how things are going, just I want to keep the practice up. I don't want to get too comfortable and let too much time pass, because who knows when an error could pop up.

Bobbi Rebell:
So when people check their credit score, what are the things that they should be looking for that are good and that are bad?

Chris Browning:
So I would say for sure, any type of drastic change. So if you've made this a habit and you're checking on a regular frequency, your credit score's not going to swing wildly. You know it's normal for it to swing 10, 20 points here and there. But if you see any type of drastic change, that would for sure be a trigger point to let you know you need to look into this a little bit more. Whether it's going to some place like freecreditreport.com which is run by Experian and you're getting a copy of your credit report just to see what's going on. Wild changes in any area of your finances is normally a sign of something that's not normal and that's maybe something you should look into a little bit more.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup Tips:

Financial Grownup Tip Number One:

The only thing Chris did wrong here, he did not follow up in finding out what he owed the hospital. So the tip is to try to stay on top of your medical bills, especially the ones that you know are probably coming. Even if you're hoping they're not. That said, the visit was in Network, so Chris in all fairness could have believed there wasn't much to do except for a co-pay that he probably had already paid at the hospital. But at the end of the day, he himself says he should have checked in and been more on top of it. Mixed feelings about that though.

Financial Grownup Tip Number Two:

Don't assume that corporations or institutions such as hospitals are competent in their billing. Question everything. This especially goes sadly for end of life situations where the family is distracted and just wants to move on. Assuming you do get bills, try hard as it may be to go through them. I know of some instances where the bills were so out of control, literally offensive, that people have gone to the financing offices of the hospital and just negotiated them down on the grounds that no one could possibly go through every charge for an overpriced Bandaid or medication or whatever, and prove that it actually happened, was given and was priced correctly. Fairly, and fairly is pretty broad when it comes to our healthcare system. Hold them accountable. Just because they throw a list of a thousand teeny charges on a bill, doesn't mean you can't question it.

Episode Links

• Listen to and learn more about the Popcorn Finance Podcast

• Check your credit score!

Follow Chris Browning and Popcorn Finance!

• Twitter - @popcornfinance

• Instagram - @popcornfinancepodcast

• YouTube - Popcorn Finance 

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Certified Financial Planner Manisha Thakor bonded with her dad over a love of the HP12C calculator and all of its investing tools. Now, the author of Get Financially Naked  shares her actual math formulas on how to lock in the right number for retirement and other goals. No excuses for listeners after this episode. 

 

In Manisha’s money story you will learn:

-The important role her father played in her early financial lessons

-How she bonded with her father over an HP12C calculator

-The specific way Manisha calculated different retirement investing outcomes as a tween. 

-The role inflation plays in the future value of investments

-The power of compounding

In Manisha’s lesson you will learn:

-Why Manisha feels women in particular need to focus not just on saving but also on investing

-The corrosive power of inflation

-Why we need to put  the recent period of historically low inflation in context

-How to manage your investments in times of extreme market volatility

In Manisha’s money tip you will learn

Manisha’s investing formula

1. Take the total dollar of your current savings and investment portfolios

2. Subtract out money you know you will need to spend in the next 5 years

3. For any of your long term money, like retirement, take 110 and subtract your age 

4. That is the amount that should be in equities

5. For example Manisha is 47. 

6. 110-47 = 63 percent should be in equities

 

In My Take you will learn:

-Why you do not need an HP12C calculator because so much is available online

-Exactly how to find out the status of your retirement accounts and if you are on track to reach your goals

-How and why you should automate your retirement savings. 

 

Episode links: 

Follow Manisha!

Twitter: @manishathakor

Facebook: Manisha Thakor

LinkedIn Manisha Thakor

YouTube: Manisha Thakor

Instagram Manisha Thakor

Pinterest Manisha Thakor

MoneyZen.com

Get Manisha’s books! http://www.moneyzen.com/books/

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money abroad. Built by the brands behind Skype, TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. So don't get stung by a bad exchange rate or sneaky fees, join the two million people who are already saving with TransferWise. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast, or download the app. It is the wise way to send money.

Manisha Thakor:
He showed me how to calculate how much money I would have by the time I was 65 if I invested my babysitting and my lawn mowing money, and then we did a couple scenarios. We tested how much I would have if I was earning 5% after inflation, if I earned 6% after inflation, and when I saw how big those numbers were I was just hooked.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is a really hard, especially when it comes for money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
We are geeking out here at Financial Grownup, but stay with me friends because you will have more money and be wealthier if you listened to this episode and follow my guest advice. Manisha Thakor is the author of Get Financially Naked, How to Talk Money With Your Honey. She is also the force behind MoneyZen, and is a practicing certified financial planner. If that sounds pretty cerebral, well, she will take that as a compliment. She started learning about investing very, very early. Here is Manisha Thakor.

Bobbi Rebell:
Manisha Thakor, welcome. You are a financial grownup. I'm so excited you're joining us on the Financial Grownup podcast.

Manisha Thakor:
I'm so excited to be here, and to be deemed by you a financial grownup.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're very much a grownup. You're the author of two books, On My Own Two Feet, and I love the second title, I know everyone does, Get Financially Naked. You also have MoneyZen. Lots going on.

Manisha Thakor:
I feel super excited about the world of personal finance and investing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good, and I'm super excited about the story that you brought to share today, because it has to do with some father-daughter bonding around, not the dinner table, around the HP 12C calculator.

Manisha Thakor:
I love this. When I was around 11 years old, my dad, he's an MBA and a CPA, he sat me down in a moment of father-daughter bonding that only financial geeks, like ourselves, could really appreciate. He had an HP 12C calculator, which for folks who may not be familiar with it, is a financial calculator that enables you to do sophisticated compounding calculations on it.

Manisha Thakor:
He showed me how to calculate how much money I would have by the time I was 65 if I invested my babysitting and my lawn mowing money, and then we did a couple scenarios. We tested how much I would have if I was earning 5% after inflation, if I earned 6% after inflation, if I earned 7% after inflation, and when I saw how big those numbers were I was just hooked.

Manisha Thakor:
That was really my first introduction to the power of compounding, and I think because he had my physically touching the buttons on the calculator, and then he made me write down the numbers in a little grid on a notepad. I can literally still even remember what the notepad looked like. It was so tactile and so visual.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you have the notebook still?

Manisha Thakor:
You know, I wish I did. He and I both say in retrospect, "We totally should have saved that for the grandkids," but it's in my mind's eye. That's how I got hooked on saving and investing.

Bobbi Rebell:
So then what is the lesson for our listeners? Should everyone be bonding over calculators?

Manisha Thakor:
That's right.

Bobbi Rebell:
We know that's not going to happen.

Manisha Thakor:
No, I-

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's bring it down to a realistic level.

Manisha Thakor:
The lesson for me, and the lesson that I want to scream from the mountain tops, is, and particularly for women, is that it's not enough to just save money. Saving is great, and it's freaking hard to do, but you must invest it as well, first and foremost to offset the corrosive power of inflation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is picking up by the way, so that's something we need to start being more aware of, and a lot of young people haven't really seen inflation at the level that other generations have. But it is going to become a bigger part of our dialog.

Manisha Thakor:
Yeah, and Bobbi, you've nailed it. We've just gone through such a bizarro period of de minimis inflation. An example I love to give is 100 bucks over a 30 year period at 3% inflation is worth $40, was, at the beginning. If you just increase that inflation to 5%, which doesn't sound like a big jump, but that drops the value of $100 in 30 years to what $20 would have bought.

Manisha Thakor:
So small [inaudible 00:05:54] inflation have a huge, huge impact, and that's why you cannot just save. You have to invest, because the first step of investing is keeping your money growing at least with the rate of inflation. If you do investing well, then ideally over the long run you grow your portfolio even faster than inflation, which increases your real purchasing power.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Now for your money tip, Manisha. We're geek out even more, because you have actually brought a formula. Your, Manisha's, magical formula for investing success. I promise everyone, just stick with us, she says it really well. She's going to explain it all, and we're going to have it all written down in the show notes for you as well. Go for it.

Manisha Thakor:
The way I think about how to take your hard earned savings and invest it is the following. First, take a look at the total dollar value of your current saving and investment portfolios. Second, subtract out any money you know you need to spend in the next five years. This could be money you need for a home down payment, or it could be your six month emergency fund.

Manisha Thakor:
Then, for any of your long term money, which for most of us is our retirement money. So it's any money that you know you don't have to spend in the next five years. What you do, is you take 110, and you subtract your age to get a back of the envelop estimate of what percent of your portfolio should be invested in stocks. That was a mouthful, and Bobbi, as you mentioned, it will be in the show notes, but I'll give you an example.

Manisha Thakor:
I'm 47 years old. We'll round that down, because at my age you like to round down. To keep the math easy, 110 minus 45 equals 65. So a good starting point for me, for how much of my long term money at my age should be in stocks, is 65%. Lo and behold, that's how much I have of my long term money in stocks.

Manisha Thakor:
The biggest mistake that I am seeing with young people these days is shying away from investing their savings, because they're afraid of losing money. So they're missing those vital early years of compounding. That's why it's so important that you subtract out the money you need to spend in the next five years, so no matter what the market is doing, you're fine. The money you know you needed, it's in cash. It's only your long term money that's being invested.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think a lot of young people witnessed their older siblings, or their parents, really being burnt in the recession, and that's a lot of the hesitation.

Manisha Thakor:
I'll just say, Bobbi, when I hear somebody tell me that 2007 to 2009 ruined their retirement, what I say is, "No. Either you had the wrong asset allocation going into it, or you blink and you deviated from your plan." Because if you followed the formula that I'm saying, and you didn't have any money that you needed to spend in the next five years in the market, in 2007-2009, you would have seen your portfolio drop as much as 50%, but you wouldn't have sold a single share of anything, because you didn't need to touch it, and then you would have seen your money double or triple as you came out of the recovery.

Manisha Thakor:
So the people who lost in 07-09, where the people that were forced to sell at bottom to maintain their lifestyle, or got scared because they didn't have the cash cushion, and sold at the bottom. That's why this formula is so important.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and you've got to sit tight. Even the beginning of 2018 we had some scary days. You've got to know your focus and stick with the plan. All right. Mrs Manisha, I also hear you have big news, new projects, new jobs. Tell us.

Manisha Thakor:
I'm so excited. I have just accepted the role of vice president of financial education for an amazing firm called Brighton Jones. I could not be happier. When I think about what I want to accomplish in this world, my belief is that money is power, and women need more of both.

Manisha Thakor:
And so I am going to be doing my darnedest in this new role to help women achieve that. As part of that, I'm really going to be ramping up my efforts with my MoneyZen newsletter. So if listeners are interested, I encourage you, go to my website, moneyzen.com. I'll have a monthly newsletter that I'll be putting out. It's educational, and I'm really going to be working hard to share the most vital resources, articles, tools, each month around women's economic empowerment, and how we can all use personal finance and investing to increase our voices and choices. I always say, "Money gives women, it gives everyone, voices and choices," and financial education, and financial guidance are what helps unlock those doors.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Before I let you go, where can we find you on social media?

Manisha Thakor:
My name is a mouthful, and I'm the same handle on everything. I'm ManishaThakor everywhere. It's M-A-N-I-S-H-A-T-H-A-K-O-R, on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram. If you forget that, go to moneyzen.com, because I have all my social media icons right up at the top.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Thank you so much for joining us.

Manisha Thakor:
Bobbi, always a pleasure to chat with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
As warned, Manisha and her dad totally geeked out with all that math, but the good news is, you guys don't need to go out and buy yourself fancy HP 12C calculators and do all this kind of fancy math, because these days it's really all there for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one, there is nothing more powerful than seeing the numbers. And like I said, you don't even have to do the math yourself these days. Log into your HR website from your job, or if you work for yourself and you have retirement accounts, which you should, go there. Go to the provider, and just take a look. Most of them will have nice calculators. They'll do the math for you. They'll have probably some graphic ways to show you how you measure up, where you are relative to your retirement goals.

Bobbi Rebell:
You can actually see how you stand, and see how you feel about it. You might get pretty emotional. It could be a really emotion. You might doing pretty well. It could possibly be not that great, but maybe that will motivate you. But the important thing is, get the information, it doesn't take much work, and make decisions from there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Speaking of decisions, financial grownup tip number two. While you're on that website, look at the retirement savings, and look for a box that says, "Increase your withholding," or a box you should check that says, "Increase your withholding by 1% every year," and of course check that box.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now, you can always undo it, but by checking that box it will automate increasing the amount of money that you are putting away each year, and you probably won't feel it because it's tax deductible, so it won't cost you that full amount, and it will amplify your savings.

Bobbi Rebell:
We have been hearing a lot from you guys, wanting to share your own financial grownup money stories, lessons, and money tips. So we are going to start having one guest a month be a listener. If you want to be considered, email us at info@financialgrownup.com, and tell us, what is the money story that you would like to share, and what is the money tip that you would also share with us, if you are chosen.

Bobbi Rebell:
Subscribe if you have not already, and help us spread the word by sharing on social media. I am @BobbiRebell on Twitter. Follow me, and please retweet these silly promo videos I'm doing. They're a lot of fun. I enjoy making them. Hopefully you guys are going to enjoy seeing them, if you have not already. Help us reach more listeners. On Instagram I am @BobbiRebell1, you can also repost those, and go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast to learn more about the show, and sign up for our mailing list so you can hear about things like how to be guest on the show. I hope you enjoyed Manisha's story, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

 

Whitney Johnson, author of "Disrupt Yourself” and her new book “Build an A Team” finds out from her financial planner that her overspending is impacting her ability to tithe 10 percent and support her church. She and her family plan a self-disruption, downsizing their life so they can deploy their money in a more intentional way. 

 

In Whitney’s story you will learn

-How a phone call from Whitney’s financial planner got Whitney’s attention about her finances

-Why Whitney was not going to be able to reach her financial goals, despite a relatively high income

-The shifts that Whitney made in terms of her spending and savings habits

-How her ties to her church and her belief in God inspire her financial planning

-How she spends differently as an entrepreneur compared to her previous career working on Wall Street

-Her belief that money is meant to be a servant, not a master

-How she uses money to support her values

 

In Whitney’s lesson you will learn:

-Every tie you spend money you are voting on the kind of world you want

-The importance of modeling financial spending for your children

 

In Whitney’s money tip you will learn:

-Ways to teach kids about investing

-How to buy fractions of a share of stock

-Whitney recommends an app called Stockpile

-How Whitney looks to the theories of Peter Lynch and advocates buying what you know and use and value, and to couple your investing behavior with your consumer behavior. 

 

In my take you will learn:

-How allowing your values to guide your financial life can be rewarding

-Why disrupting your life to better align it with your financial values is something people at any income level should consider

-How you can be pro-active in taking down barriers for your bosses, to create better odds of them giving a green light to your goals

-How I got my bosses to allow me to work a 4-day week for years, by removing barriers and creating solutions before I approached them. 

Episode Links

Twitter - @johnsonwhitney

Facebook - facebook.com/johnsonwhitneyauthor

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/whitneyjohnson/

Get Whitney’s new book: Build an A Team: Play to Their Strengths and Lead Them Up the Learning Curve. Free chapter download available at https://whitneyjohnson.com/ateam

Stockpile

---

Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at transferwise.com/podcast, or download the app.

Whitney Johnson:
"I tithe, I pay 10% of our gross income to God, to our church," and he was just like, "Okay, you've got a problem here because this isn't going to happen in addition to some of your other financial goals that you have." That was a really important wake-up call for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Well, despite the clip you heard at the top of this episode, today's podcast is not about religion, but it is about values, and leveraging your money and your financial resources to support what you and your family believe in. Whitney Johnson's new book is called Build an A-Team: Play to Their Strengths and Lead Them Up the Learning Curve. She is also the author of the bestseller Disrupt Yourself: Putting the Power of Disruptive Innovation to Work, and she hosts, you get the theme here, the Disrupt Yourself Podcast.

Bobbi Rebell:
In this case, the story that she's going to share, Whitney disrupted her entire family life, downsizing everything to get to her financial goals and to have the financial resources to support what she and her family value. She lives what she preaches. Here is Whitney Johnson. Whitney Johnson, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Whitney Johnson:
Thank you for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, I do want to congratulate you on your new book. It is Build an A-Team and we're going to talk more about that going forward, but just high level, what's it about?

Whitney Johnson:
Build an A-Team is about helping you as a manager build a team that can manage through change, that can be innovative and high performing, and the key is to let your people learn. When you allow them to learn, leap, and repeat, they are engaged and therefore happy, they love coming to work, they're more productive, and they love working for you, so you become a great place to work and a boss people love.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's great. For your money story, though, we're going talk about you and your team, which includes your husband and includes your financial planner, and an incident that happened when you got a call from your financial planner. You weren't achieving a goal that was really important to you. Tell us your money story.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. This happened about 15 years ago. I got a call from my financial planner and he said to me, "You are spending way too much money." It was really a wake-up call for me, because I was having the conversation with him of like, "I tithe, I pay 10% of our gross income to God, to our church," and he was just like, "Okay, you've got a problem here because this isn't going to happen in addition to some of your other financial goals that you have." That was a really important wake-up call for me, that I really needed to think about, "Okay, it's really great that you can earn lots of money, but you have to also basically manage your money and not just think about what you're earning. You have to also think about what you're spending and spend less than you're actually earning." That was a really important lesson for me and really started to shift how I was thinking about money, not only what I was earning, but also what I was saving.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was important to you was that 10%. I want to pick up on that, because in your heart one of the things that you really prioritize is giving to causes that you believe in, to religious causes, to God, as you say. That was really your priority and you weren't able to accomplish that, or you would not have been able to continue to accomplish that if you didn't change your ways.

Whitney Johnson:
Absolutely. It's such a great point because when I was thinking about the fact that I wasn't managing my money, a lot of times it was exactly to causes or people or things that I cared about, so it's not like I was being profligate, and yet if I didn't manage my money, those things that were deeply important to me, education for my children, et cetera, were not going to be a possibility, and that was a very important wake-up call for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Were there things that you could pull out that you were able to change? What did you do to pivot from there?

Whitney Johnson:
I had become an entrepreneur at this point and I was still spending like I wasn't an entrepreneur. I was still working on Wall Street, and so one of the things that we did is we made some really tough decisions. Over the next year, we decided to downsize and to sell our house, and to really pare back on how we were spending our money in that interim so that we could still buy the things that mattered to us, but then also undertake these entrepreneurial ventures that were also important to us.

Bobbi Rebell:
And maintain a culture and a family life and setting an example, for the rest of your family, of giving.

Whitney Johnson:
Absolutely, 100%, because that is a high, high priority for me and for my husband and for our entire family, is to be able to give to others.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what is the lesson for our listeners from that?

Whitney Johnson:
Most of us have a pretty ... not most, many, probably including myself, have a fairly froth relationship with money. We're like, "Is it good? Is it bad?" And it's not either, and so a couple of lessons that I've learned is that money is meant to be a servant, not a master, and that I, and this is a gradual lesson that I've been learning throughout my life, is to remember that that's the case. And that also the more money we're able to not only earn, but the more we extend our ability to do good beyond our physical presence, and so those are becoming mantras for me, but really guiding principles in terms of how I think about money saving tactically day-to-day, and spending, I should say, as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the importance of not only thinking about growing your business and buying things, but also the values that money can help you support.

Whitney Johnson:
Absolutely. I mean, one of the things, there was a quote that I remember reading probably about seven or eight years ago now, which is really, again, a bit of a watchword for me. It was Anna Lappé and she said that every time you spend money, you're voting on the kind of world that you want. That has been a really powerful thing for me. One, a dollar, $10, what kind of world am I saying I want with this money that I've just spent or allocated to whatever I allocated it to? That's just a really important thing to me and something that we're trying to instill in our children as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
You also have a wonderful money tip, and this is great especially when you talk about children. It's always hard to teach children to invest because sometimes stocks are really expensive and you can't always buy. I can think of Berkshire Hathaway, obviously as the most extreme example perhaps, but a lot of stocks, they don't split and they're very expensive to buy individual stocks. They just start buying 100 shares of a stock, so talk to me about your money tip, because it has to do with investing. It's something that is often applicable when children want to start learning about investing.

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. One of the really wonderful boons of the last couple of years is you can buy fractional shares. You don't have to buy 100 shares. You don't even have to buy 10 shares. You can buy a half a share. There's something called Stockpile, stockpile.com, that you can go on there and say, "Okay, I want to spend $300," and so you can spend $300 on Apple or $300 on Tesla. Or just to other day for my son, for his birthday, he wanted to buy Spotify, and so I was like, "Okay, $300. We'll buy some Spotify stock." I don't actually know how much it costs, but you can buy a half a share, a quarter of a share, a tenth of a share, but it's just based on how much money you want to spend.

Whitney Johnson:
So it's a great way to start investing in the stock market and really building on an idea that Peter Lynch pioneered 20, 30 years ago now, which is to buy what it is you know and use and value, and couple your investing behavior with your consumer behavior, and fractional shares, and Stockpile specifically, allows you to do that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. All right. Let's talk about your new book because it is coming out pretty much now. It's called Build an A-Team. It's a follow up to Disrupt Yourself, which was a huge, huge hit and relatable to so many people, especially myself, having disrupted myself in the last few years professionally. Tell me more about Build an A-Team.

Whitney Johnson:
Well, Build an A-Team came about because people had read Disrupt Yourself and said, "Okay. I get it. I got it. I'm willing to disrupt myself, but what about the people around me? How do I create an ecosystem that makes that possible?" So in Build an A-Team I make it possible for you to think about, "Okay, how do I create a workplace or an environment, a team where personal disruption is possible?" Then I flip it on its head and say, "Okay, so to you, the manager, you don't want just your people to be disputing themselves willy-nilly. What's in it for you?"

Whitney Johnson:
So I make the case that every single person is on a learning curve, including you, the manager, and you build that team that can innovate, that can manage through change by managing your team as a collection of S curves or learning curves, and optimize by having about 70% of your people in the middle at any given time, 15% at the low end, and 15% of your people at the high end. And when they get to the high of their learning curve, you allow them to disrupt themselves because by doing that, they start over that cycle of learn, leap, and repeat, and whenever people are learning, they're able to be innovative. When they're learning, they're innovative, and so you as a company can stay competitive, and because they're so happy at work, they love working for you as a boss, and so you become a talent magnet.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me just ask you, if you are the employee, because a lot of our listeners are younger and starting out in their careers, if you are on the curve and you recognize that you're at the top of your curve, do you approach your manager and say, "I basically want a different job within the organization"? I mean, what do you do?

Whitney Johnson:
Obviously there are going to be risks in doing that. You've got to really suss out your boss. I think one of the ways that you can do that is, "Does it make sense for me to have this conversation with my boss?" What's that boss' track record? Do they have a history of people who have worked for them in the past, it's been possible for them to move on to other opportunities for which the boss advocated, that they've sponsored them into those opportunities? Then you can be pretty comfortable that having that conversation with them is a safe thing to do. You also, before you have that conversation, want to make sure that in fact you are ready to ... sometimes we overestimate our abilities. We all do it. We think we really want it, and so therefore it's time for us to have it.

Whitney Johnson:
So in having that conversation, what I would encourage you to do is go to your boss and say, "I've been in this role for about three years. It feels like I'm starting to peak and I've really hit my stride, and it's time for me to try something new, so here's what I would propose and here's the business case for why it makes sense for me to do it, because it's not just about me. It's going to help our organization be more innovative, and in the process I've identified this person over here that I think can really step into this role nicely, so you will not be left in the lurch. I will help train that successor so that they're able to continue to grow and develop. And at the same time I'm able to grow and develop as well as help our organization and our team be more innovative, and so that would be my suggestion to you."

Bobbi Rebell:
Anticipate what's going to go wrong and make sure you have a solution for every possible iteration. All right. Whitney Johnson, where can people find you?

Whitney Johnson:
You can find me at whitneyjohnson.com. If you want to email me, it's wj@whitneyjohnson.com. I would love to hear from you.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you have, by the way, a million, I heard a million LinkedIn followers.

Whitney Johnson:
I do, 1.2 million, actually, but I'm not counting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. You are our hero, Whitney Johnson. I will leave all of your social media links in the show notes, but just so we have them here, Twitter, Instagram, all that stuff?

Whitney Johnson:
Yeah. Johnson Whitney, actually. It's Johnson Whitney.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay. Good to know. Exactly. That's why we ask. All right. You're wonderful. Thank you so much, and congratulations on the new book.

Whitney Johnson:
Thank you, Bobbi, for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Don't you feel so motivated by Whitney, like anything is possible if you know think it through and get really intentional?

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one, let your values be a guide to how you want to not just spend your money, but spend your life. Whitney literally disrupted her entire life, her family downsized, and I don't have Whitney's personal financial info, but I'm guessing she does pretty well, so this is not really about income level. It's about allocation of your resources, whatever they are, to support the way you want to live your life and the role model you want to be for your family. In Whitney's case, it was about tithing to her church and other things that her family valued, like education and financial security and financial freedom.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, get intentional about your career goals. You probably think you are, but be honest. Are you proactively doing something to remove barriers? Put yourself in your bosses' position and think about what they need to get you what you want. If you own a business, your clients are basically your bosses. Yeah, sorry, but kind of. Right? So come with solutions.

Bobbi Rebell:
When I wanted to work, for example, four days a week after having my son, I presented my bosses with the solution. My colleague, who was, fun fact, Manoush Zomorodi that many of you may know as the host of the Note to Self podcast, was also having her son. We gave birth, in fact, two days apart in the same hospital. Manoush agreed to be my Friday fill in. We presented a complete solution, and it was tough for the bosses to turn down something that was already good to go, especially with someone as wonderful as Manoush.

Bobbi Rebell:
Now Whitney is giving us the first chapter of her new book Build an A-Team: Play to Their Strengths and Lead Them Up the Learning Curve for free to download. Just go to whitneyjohnson.com/ateam and you can get that download, so start there for free and then go pick up a copy of the whole book ASAP. Build an A-Team has tons of specific examples in it that will give you a lot of aha moments of how bosses think and need to think, and it is well worth the time you will invest in reading it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Just a reminder, we are excited to start our once a month listener episode, so if you want to be a guest on Financial Grownup, email us with your money story and your money tip to info@financialgrownup.com. Make sure you are on our mailing list. Go to our website, bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. You'll get a pop up and you can sign up. Be in touch on Twitter, @bobbirebell, and on Instagram, at bobbirebell1. Whitney Johnson gave us so much to think about. Here is to us all getting one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Doug Boneparth  CFP®, author of The Millennial Money Fix,  got his entrepreneurial game on early in life when at just 15 he was selling Japanese Anime video’s on a new platform- eBay. While the business did not last, the lessons about supply and demand, as well as keeping track of the profits, provided the foundation for the entrepreneur he is today. 

In Doug’s money story you will learn:

-Why checks were arriving in the mail for the then 15-year old Doug Boneparth

-How Doug leveraged his passion for Japanese Anime into a thriving online business just as the internet was becoming a mainstream tool for commerce

-The skills Doug and his brother developed to grow the anime business, and other businesses they started

-How much money Doug made

In Doug’s money lesson you will learn:

-How Doug’s passion for his product drove sales

-How Doug has used the lessons from that teenage business to build his current CFP® practice

-How Doug continues to leverage the internet for business

-Why it is important to understand the legal ramifications of business decisions

-Where the profits from his business went!

In Doug’s money tip you will learn:

-How to make your commute more productive

-The financial and psychological benefits of investing in improving your time between home and work

 

In my take you will learn:

-The importance of tracking your business spending and costs, in addition to top line income

-How saving money in the wrong places can hurt both your business, and the quality of your personal life

-The specific, and very tough decision Bobbi made to increase her intentional work time, in order to improve the quality of her time with her family. 

 

Episode Links

Doug Boneparth’s Bona Fide Wealth Website: https://bonefidewealth.com/

Get Doug’s book The Millennial Money Fix

Follow Doug!

Twitter @dougboneparth

Instagram @Dougnotsofunny

Facebook Bonefidewealth

LinkedIn DouglasBoneparth

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free at TransferWise.com/podcast or download the app.

Doug Boneparth:
I remember my dad and my mom kind of wondering, "Well, why are all of these checks coming in the mail?" Eventually, I think eBay was a little suspect as to what I was doing, as well. My parents were a little suspicious. My dad, I think, stopped bringing my boxes for shipment to the post office.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Certified Financial Planner and Author of The Millennial Money Fix, Doug Boneparth, was born to be an entrepreneur. He started building businesses in his teens. Doug was hesitant to share the story you're going to hear because, well, it was the early days of the internet. And let's just say the rules were still unclear. That aside, it is a great lesson in taking something you love, knowing the market, and then filling a demand by creating supply.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here is Certified Financial Planner, Doug Boneparth. Doug Boneparth, you are a Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Doug Boneparth:
Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of my favorite CFP friends, and also, by the way, congratulations on your still relatively new book, The Millennial Money Fix. We're going to talk more about that soon. But first, I want to get to your money story. It's a really good one. We've been talking about this.

Doug Boneparth:
It's a throwback.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's a throwback to when you were 15 years old. Anime was a big thing. You learned about the markets with a little business venture. Tell us.

Doug Boneparth:
So self-admitted super dork here. In high school-

Bobbi Rebell:
No.

Doug Boneparth:
I really kind of got into Japanese animation. I thought it was awesome, and one thing that I noticed was, it was becoming more and more popular in American culture. I think Cartoon Network had Toonami and it was something I just loved. I loved all these things, video games. Of course, Japanese animation. I was really good with computers. My brother and I were both really good with computers, and I always was able to find a way to surf the internet a little bit better than others. So I said, "Geez, if we could find a way to get some great shows, these anime shows and sell them, we could probably make some money."

Doug Boneparth:
I noticed the demand in this relatively new market in the US and I did just that. I found a number of series, back from like the '80s. I think CD burners were relatively new, and eBay was relatively new, so what did I have? I had a market, I had a way to distribute, I had a way to capture content, and I was in business, and the checks came in.

Bobbi Rebell:
How much were the checks, Doug?

Doug Boneparth:
Each series, in the beginning, and what was really interesting is I watched the price of these series come down pretty dramatically over the course of like six months. But checks were 80 bucks, 70 bucks for a particular show.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you're how old again?

Doug Boneparth:
I was 15.

Bobbi Rebell:
15, okay.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah, so here I was, thinking I had a really cool idea. I remember my dad and my mom kind of wondering, "Well, why are all of these checks coming in the mail?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, they didn't know what was going on?

Doug Boneparth:
Well, no. They really didn't. They knew like I was savvy with computers, and I was into these shows, but they let me. I was a good boy. They left me to my-

Bobbi Rebell:
How much money, Doug, was coming in exactly? How much? What was your haul here?

Doug Boneparth:
I think from beginning to end, I had to have cleared $10,000 in checks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, my gosh.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah, it's a lot of money for a 15 year old, and the worst part is, I have no idea what I did with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, no.

Doug Boneparth:
I know. I'm sure I spent it on like candy, and video games, and computer equipment, and again, real dorky stuff. But, yeah. It was cool and I felt like I was running this amazing enterprise, where I had really tapped into something that was becoming popular. But those checks eventually dwindled, and eventually, I think eBay was a little suspect to what I was doing, as well.

Doug Boneparth:
My parents were a little suspicious. My dad, I think, stopped bringing my boxes for shipment to the post office, which was right outside his office. And that was the end of my borderline questionable anime sales and marketing job on eBay.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a talk that your parents had with you and your brother? By the way, so your brother's involved in this, too, I assume?

Doug Boneparth:
Oh, no. No, he remains innocent. I remember my dad pulling my brother aside and asking, "What is your brother doing?" I think my brother covered for me pretty good. He goes, "He's putting these shows on CDs, I think they're so old that nobody cared." And my dad kind of looked at him strangely and I think that was the end of him kind of sponsoring or being my mule to bring the series to the post office. Yeah, quasi unethical behavior perhaps at 15.

Doug Boneparth:
Hey, look. Kids are going to get in trouble and it's probably a good reminder to let those who are trying to become entrepreneurs early on, make sure what you're doing is completely legit, like the computer repair business. My brother and I were running, that seemed to be probably a little bit more above board. But it was a great learning lesson. It kind of fanned the flames of the entrepreneur in me and only led to greater success down the road.

Bobbi Rebell:
It was the early days of the internet, so the rules were not clear yet, to be clear in terms of you were a 15 year old kid. You certainly were not intentionally doing anything that was not above board.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah, no. I thought it was extremely clever. I thought it was amazing that this could all be put together. And if I was smart enough to do it, then to the victor go the spoils. Now looking back at it, yeah, it maybe a little bit dicey.

Doug Boneparth:
But again, I kind of wear it with a badge of honor, and have more value from the lessons that I learned in doing it and in business, than really just about anything else. But, yeah. You got it. Probably walking a fine line there.

Bobbi Rebell:
From an entrepreneurial standpoint, from a money standpoint, what did you learn running this internet business at age 15? I mean, were there marketing [inaudible 00:06:37]? Because you did well.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did really well.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah, I learned that if you can sell something that you're excited about and you're passionate about, it's almost like not working. And that's a really important lesson. And that holds true as an advisor. My friends don't want to hear how I love Monday. I do. I absolutely love what I do, in the same way that I loved what I was doing. I loved these shows, and the stories, and I thought that I was sharing them with other people in this new trend that was emerging. That was super cool. So that was lesson number one.

Doug Boneparth:
Two was really an economic lesson, and looking at something here that I saw the trend. I saw the demand. I had an ability to supply it. And sure enough, you put those two concepts together and you're in business. And then third, is the internet side of things. Again, this is kind of the dawn of the eCommerce. This is the beginning of the internet. I thank my parents for allowing my brother to get a broadband cable modem and to be able to do a lot of cool stuff out there.

Doug Boneparth:
And I think the lessons and the experience I had there followed through to even how I'm operating business today. A lot of the way that I market my firm is definitely on the internet side of things, so I was an early adopter. And those are my three big lessons from being an entrepreneur at the age of 15. Even if it was selling Japanese animation on eBay.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hate to ask you this, but the $10,000. You really have no idea where it went, Doug?

Doug Boneparth:
All right.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because I know people want to know.

Doug Boneparth:
Fourth lesson. Become financially literate and responsible, and I only ... This is where I'm haunted by, "What if I had bought some really cheap technology stocks back in the day?" Or something like that, I'd be swimming in it, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
$10,000 at age 15, Doug. Where did it go?

Doug Boneparth:
You tell me. Where didn't it go? I always had a lot of fun, and I really liked video games, and computer, I probably just ... I'll tell you where it went. It went into computers, and hardware, and things like that. Again, you're having me admit just how big of a nerd I was.

Bobbi Rebell:
But that's investing back in the business.

Doug Boneparth:
No, that was to play video games, and get like cool graphic cards, and buy video games, and stuff like that. No, it was-

Bobbi Rebell:
I was trying to help there you there, Doug.

Doug Boneparth:
No, no, no. I appreciate that, but there's no, really no helping me on that one.

Bobbi Rebell:
So let's talk about your money tip. This is a good one. You struggled with this, but I think it's a really good one. Because so many people spend so much time on their way to and from work. Hopefully they're listening to podcasts like this one while they do it. But it's important to really prioritize this time and think about it as an asset. And you have a money tip to that end.

Doug Boneparth:
That's right. When you're thinking about commuting, I think that you should pay for the things that free up your time. So for me, that's parking across the river in Jersey City, so there's a car that can get me to my daughter or home a lot faster. And therefore, I can be more productive with my time.

Doug Boneparth:
It's paying for things like your 4G internet, for your laptop, so if I do take the train or I'm not driving, I can work and be productive. The theme here is, I usually don't hesitate to spend money on things, like parking or internet, things that make me become more productive when I'm commuting. It's usually a good payoff.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Sounds good. Let's talk a little bit about The Millennial Money Fix. This is a great book. It's very comprehensive, and yet to the point. Tell me more.

Doug Boneparth:
So there are a lot of personal finance books out there, and I hope that the stories are what differentiate one book from another. And this is A, 80% of what you should have learned about in personal finance, right here in like 200 pages. Extremely digestible, but B, it's a first-hand perspective of what it's like for two hardworking millennials to navigate their young adult and now more mature adult lives in a way that's relatable and practical.

Doug Boneparth:
We know what hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loan debt looks like. We know what it's like to buy a home, and start a family, and have kids with that burden. And we know how hard you have to work to make these things happen. So we practice what we preach and we want to share our story. My wife, Heather, and I want to share our story with everyone, so they become financially educated, empowered, and go after their great things in life.

Bobbi Rebell:
And also, of course, people look at you. You're a very successful Certified Financial Planner. You're all over the media, so prominent. But you have the same challenges that so many people do have.

Doug Boneparth:
That's right. If you judge a book by its cover, you might say to yourself, "Well, there's nothing these two really need to worry about. They're doing really well for themselves." And that's false. I mean, yeah, we're doing really well-

Bobbi Rebell:
You're doing well, but it's not all roses.

Doug Boneparth:
Yeah, exactly. Nothing's been handed to us and our debt was something that we took on ourselves through Heather's own decisions to go to law school-

Bobbi Rebell:
You went to graduate school, too.

Doug Boneparth:
I went to graduate school, too. But I willingly knew what the impact would be. She did not have that advantage, and that's actually a cool contrast that we provide in the book. What it's like to pay for an expensive education, knowing fully well what it means financially, as well as what it means to pay for that education, not being financially literate. And I think that's something a lot of young people are going through, the older millennials.

Doug Boneparth:
And I think it's an opportunity for younger millennials, and even Gen Z to use this as a cautionary tale. Know what it is that you're getting yourself into, and how to find that return on your investment, and set yourself up with lessons that you should be learning, but unfortunately, aren't offered to you. So we're going to provide-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. And where can people find you?

Doug Boneparth:
People can find me so many places. So many places. BonafideWealth.com's website. You can follow me on Twitter @DougBoneparth. Facebook. Just Google Douglas Boneparth and take your pick.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, and YouTube especially. Check out his YouTube channel. It's awesome.

Doug Boneparth:
Especially for young financial advisors, that's for you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. All right, Doug. You've been such a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Doug Boneparth:
Oh, thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here's my take on Doug's teenage entrepreneurial venture. Financial Grownup tip number one. You guys may have noticed I didn't want to let Doug off the hook about his profits. It was $10,000, he was only 15, so we are going to give him a pass. But if you are bringing in cash, you need to have a system, any system. Whatever works for you. There's a lot we don't know about what was going on with Doug's business.

Bobbi Rebell:
We don't know if there was overhead, probably not. We don't know who was paying, for example, for his shipping costs. Probably his dad, so it was pure profit. So $10,000, he enjoyed it, he was 15, but if you want to be a Financial Grownup, figure out what's going on with your cash flow, and be more deliberate, and more intentional.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Doug talked about spending money to make your commute and your life more productive. He focused on logistics, like parking, and having internet wherever he goes. And that is a great point. Spend money on productivity, so you can complete more work more efficiently. For example, this is something I've come to realize. I will sometimes cut my workday short to pick up my son from school. That can be as early as 2:30 in the afternoon some days. On a personal level, that's great.

Bobbi Rebell:
But sometimes it's a mistake because it can cut hours off my workday, when I could simply pay a babysitter just to pick him up and get those hours back. Then I can be focused on my son when he is home because I have completed my work. Racing to get him and then ignoring him because I have to get work done is not a win for either of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for listening to this episode of Financial Grownup. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button if you have not already and be in touch. Follow me on Twitter @BobbiRebell, and Instagram at BobbiRebell1 and learn more about the show at BobbiRebell.com/FinancialGrownupPodcast. You can also get our newsletter there and find out how you can be a guest on the show. I hope you enjoyed Doug's story and that we all got one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Canadian rower Jeremiah Brown, author of “The 4 Year Olympian”  had a dream- to make it to the Olympics in four years- without sinking into debt. That meant downsizing, living lean, and learning how to get the most financial  support possible for his athletic ambitions. 

In Jeremiah’s money story you will learn:

-How Jeremiah funded his Olympic dream on a 4 year timetable

-Specifically how he cut his expenses despite having a young child to support

-The funding he got from the Canadian government and how the system works to support athletes

-How he estimated the funding he would need, and then worked towards that goal

- The strategy he used to negotiate extra leave from his job with TD Ameritrade

In Jeremiah’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of financial planning for the psychological well-being of athletes

-Not to defer your life dreams for fear of missing out on short term financial goals

-How to get the support of your employer for a big personal goal or project

In Jeremiah’s money tip you will learn:

-One way to save money each and every time you buy food outside the home

-How being both budget conscious and environmentally conscious can go hand in hand

In my take you will learn:

-The importance of sharing money lessons in the moment with your kids

-How asking for a little more from your employer can pay off

Episode Links

Jeremiah’s website: https://the4yearolympian.com/

Get Jeremiah’s book The 4 Year Olympian

Follow Jeremiah!

Twitter @JeremiahFBrown

Instagram: @brownjf24

LinkedIn Jeremiah Brown

Facebook The4yearOlympian

TD Ameritrade

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Transcription

Bobbi Rebell:
Support for Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell and the following message come from TransferWise, the cheaper way to send money internationally. TransferWise takes a machete to the hefty fees that come with sending money abroad. Test it out for free out transferwise.com/podcast or download the app.

Jeremiah Brown:
I've seen so many athletes, it's going to be the hardest thing you do in your life, just to get to the Olympics. The last thing you need is to see yourself going into the red, accumulating debt. The psychology is already hard enough. You don't need something else like that distracting you.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To Be A Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends, very excited about today's guest. We have our first Olympian on Financial Grownup, our first athlete overall, in fact, Jeremiah Brown. He won a silver medal as part of the Canadian rowing team at the London Olympics and wrote a book about it called The Four Year Olympian. But if you met him earlier in his life, you most likely would never have predicted that kind of achievement. At 17 he came very close, in fact, to going to prison. He was a father at 19, and there's a lot more to the story. I will let him take it from here. Here is Jeremiah Brown. Jeremiah Brown, you are a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Jeremiah Brown:
Thanks for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm so excited because, Jeremiah, you are the first athlete that we have had, and you are also a silver medal winner in the Olympics, so congratulations on that.

Jeremiah Brown:
Thank you, I'm honored to bring maybe a different perspective.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, well you're also out with an amazing book, The Four Year Olympian, which is talking about how you got there in just four years, and it's a story of perseverance and grit and determination, but also, financial planning, which is part of why I wanted to have you on the podcast. Tell us your money story and how that helped you become an Olympic silver medalist.

Jeremiah Brown:
Yeah, let me set the scene for you. I was 23 years old. I was in my first job at a bank as an analyst. I had this dream to go to the Olympics, and I had this problem of how I was going to fund that dream. I also had a young son at the time, I started early in life, and I was thinking, "How am I going to pay for his daycare?" Which was $800 a month. You know, my housing costs, which at the time I was renting a nice house at this lake in Victoria, in British Columbia, Canada. That was costing me, I think, $1500 a month. So I had this cost of living that I needed to ratchet down if I was going to be able to figure out how to fund my Olympic dream.

Jeremiah Brown:
So what did I end up doing? Well, I saved every penny of my disposable income for a full year from my job. I moved from that expensive rental into a really small condo, it was 500 square feet, so it was pretty tight for ...

Bobbi Rebell:
With your son?

Jeremiah Brown:
Yeah, with my son and his mom, there were three of us.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow!

Jeremiah Brown:
We were in this shoebox condo. But eventually I got, like my housing cost was down to about $600 a month. Then I was able to make it work just to train that first full year with the national team before I was able to get the federal funding that really only brought me up to $18000 a year, but it was able to cover my basic costs.

Bobbi Rebell:
So Canada has some funding for athletes? Just tell us briefly, explain that.

Jeremiah Brown:
Yeah, so Canada, once you get to the senior national team level and you're competing internationally in your sport, if it's an Olympic sport, the federal government will give you, it's called carding, it's a monthly stipend. When I was competing it was $1500 a month was the most you could get. It's very similar to the US. They have different amounts down there, but it's a similar kind of system.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you had four years, which goes to your book, four years to get to the Olympics. How much would you say you invested in preparing for the Olympics? What does it cost to get to the Olympics starting basically from scratch?

Jeremiah Brown:
It depends on how you do it. So for me, I knew I was going to need about $12000 of my own money to cover the shortfall in the first year. So when I first started I was going to get a little bit of funding from the government, I knew that, it was called development funding. Then the whole plan hinged on me performing better and better over time and getting up to that higher level of funding. So I was able to come through this without any debt and with expenses of each of those years of about, I'd say, between $25000 and $30000 of core living expenses. Then the team covered the travel and they provided some of the training, and some of the other expenses were already covered. So I just lived lean, and luckily as an athlete you're training so much that you're not spending a lot of money either.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and it's also psychological, it's important psychologically that you not be stressed out about money.

Jeremiah Brown:
It's huge. I've seen so many athletes who, it's going to be the hardest thing you do in your life anyways, just to try to get to the Olympics, and the last thing you need is to see yourself going into the red accumulating debt. The psychology is already hard enough, you don't need something else like that distracting you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us more about the lesson here for people, for our listeners who have goals that they want to reach, especially when there's a very finite timeline, I mean, it was four years, that was it, there was a definite structure to this. It wasn't like you just wanted to go on forever. You wanted to reach this goal.

Jeremiah Brown:
I'm like you, Bobbi, and probably a lot of your listeners in that I think of myself as trying to be financially responsible, and I was thinking of my longterm plan, and what was my retirement horizon, and how much did I need to invest and all that. But I think sometimes when we get in this rut of totally deferring everything and becoming a slave to this sense of financial responsibility, and I think, I guess my lesson for the listeners is that you can do these, you can chase these personal dreams without it totally destroying your financial plan. I'm back on track to where I was pre-games. I think if you have a well planned strategy and you're willing to invest in yourself at any stage of life, it's something you're not going to regret.

Bobbi Rebell:
What was the reaction when you kind of left your job and said, "This is what I'm going to do."

Jeremiah Brown:
Well, it's funny, when you try to do this, like when you're chasing incredible goals, in fact, people around you all rally around you. The bank actually supported me, they said, "Okay, you can take a leave of absence." I ended up taking, I think it was a record for this bank, it's TD Bank, one of the biggest banks in Canada, and I think I ended up being on a leave of absence for 18 months, and the policy was up to six months, so they were really behind me and they actually supported what I wanted to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
First of all, congratulations so much, it's so exciting, and I love the fact that you actually came back with a medal, because sometimes people invest so much and unfortunately they don't turn out as well as your dreams did. So I just wanted to make sure to really congratulate you, it's just amazing. And congratulations on your book, we're going to talk more about that in one sec. I want to get your money tip though, because you talked about your young son, your son is now 12 years old, tell us your money tip because it has to do with when you're out with your son.

Jeremiah Brown:
All right, so my son and I, you know, we travel quite a bit for his sports.

Bobbi Rebell:
Is he a rower also?

Jeremiah Brown:
Well, not yet. But he's playing basketball, he's on the city basketball team for his age group. So we're going to tournaments a lot, we're traveling for his sports, and yeah, we need to stop and we need to eat while we're on the road. One of the ways I try to teach him and save money is to just ask for a cup of water at the restaurant, whether it's a fast food place or anywhere, just say, "Can I just have a glass of tap water?" Maybe it's a little embarrassing for him, but it's just trying to teach him that you can save incrementally here and there and that's a good place to do it. Don't buy the $4 or $5 fountain pop, just get a cup of water, it's free, and enjoy your meal. And healthier and better for the environment.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a really good point, I'm glad you said that, because all of those plastic bottles are very bad for our environment, and sometimes they can even give it to you in a glass, not a disposable cup, which is even better. So it's important to save money and save the environment. Tell me more now about The Four Year Olympian, your new book.

Jeremiah Brown:
Okay, so this book, it's The Four Year Olympian, and it took me five years to write the book about the story.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, wait, wait, it took you longer to write the book about your four year journey to the Olympics than it did to get to the Olympics?

Jeremiah Brown:
It did. It was the second hardest thing I've done in my life, and it was just difficult in a different way, it's sort of an intellectual kind of masochism as opposed to just a brutal physical and mental effort. So it's essentially a memoir from when I became a young father at the age of 19 and I was faced with this, to me it felt like a predictable path in life, and I still felt like I had potential as an athlete. I went and chased this dream, and really the book is an exposition on overcoming self doubt, and what happens when you enslave yourself to a goal, like I did.

Bobbi Rebell:
You allude to struggle there, I know you were a young father, it sounds like it was unexpected, what other struggles did you have earlier in life?

Jeremiah Brown:
Well, I got into a little bit of trouble when I was 17. I guess I technically was a juvenile delinquent. I took a prank too far in high school and I was actually facing some prison time. I had to go through this court process. What I did was I actually, I stole some pittas from a Pita Pit delivery person with a friend, and we thought it was just going to be something we could laugh off. But I ended up going through this whole process of facing actual prison time, and it was a really pivotal time in my life where I thought, "Geez, you know, I'm a good kid, I just screwed up, and this is not who I am." So I came out of that with a bit of a chip on my shoulder and I wanted to prove to myself and to others, you know, as a young man back then, I just wanted to show that I had way more potential than sort of the reputation that I'd gained after that slip-up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you have certainly proven yourself, Jeremiah, we are so happy for you and so excited to read more about your journey in your book, The Four Year Olympian, where else can people follow you and learn more about you and all of your current successes and your future successes? Because we're so excited to see what you do next.

Jeremiah Brown:
The best place people can find me is going to the book website: the4yearolympian.com, that's with a numeral 4, and you can find me there.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful, and on social media?

Jeremiah Brown:
I'm on Twitter, @JeremiahFBrown, and I'm on Instagram, just started, I'm working on it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Baby steps, it's okay.

Jeremiah Brown:
That's BrownJF24.

Bobbi Rebell:
Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your story and being a part of Financial Grownup. We really loved having you.

Jeremiah Brown:
Thank you, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
Jeremiah was able to focus on his training because he had a financial plan in place, and he is right, for athletes or anyone working intensely towards a goal, financial stress is one distraction you don't want to be fighting up against. Financial Grownup tip number one: don't be so quick to quit your job to live your dream if you can avoid it. Jeremiah took a leave of absence, and because he had been a strong employee and was valued by his company, because he got them on board and they were with the program, he was able to take a much longer leave of absence than was in their official corporate policy. He knew he had something to go back to when he needed it if he wanted. Don't assume your employer will stick to the exact policy and won't give you more if you ask. Ask, the worst they could say is no. But having their support and having the financial security of knowing you have a job to go back to, if you want to try something like going for the Olympics, is going to be priceless.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two: don't keep your money saving tips to yourself, including your kids. Jeremiah's tip about asking for a cup of tap water instead of buying soda or bottled water was spot on. But even better was the fact that he was teaching his 12-year-old son painless ways to save money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Great episode from Jeremiah. Don't forget to pick up his book, The Four Year Olympian. It is brutally honest and will really take you into what it takes to reach the podium at the Olympics or achieve any big dream that maybe seems impossible at the time. Hit the subscribe button if you have not already and be in touch on Twitter @BobbiRebell, on Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and on Facebook my author page is Bobbi Rebell. And if you want to be a guest on the show, a reminder, we are going to start having listener episodes once a month. Send us your money story and your money tip that you would share, to: info@financialgrownup.com to be considered. I hope you all enjoyed Olympic silver medalist, Jeremiah Brown's story, and that we all got one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

Leanna Haakons trusted a friend to sell her car so she could use the proceeds for tuition. But when she handed over the keys, he hit the road leaving her without the cash to pay for school. 

In Leanna’s money story you will learn:

-How Leanna planned to finance her college

-The two mistakes she made that destroyed those plans

-How she paid for college even though she did not recover the money she lost

-The role her dad played in the story

-The psychological impact of a financial betrayal on Leanna

-What happened years later when she finally confronted the person who stole her money

In Leanna’s money lesson you will learn:

-Be aware of the ways people can take advantage of you and your money

-Her warning about cybersecurity, identity theft and financial infidelity in relationships

-How to research a broker or financial advisor

-The importance of a paper trail

In Leanna’s Money tip you will learn:

-The link between healthy eating and building wealth

-Leanna’s healthy body healthy wallet theory

-Her top 12 dirtiest produce items

-When to buy organic even if it costs more

-Cooking techniques that will kill pesticides

-Apps she recommends to eat healthier

In my take you will learn:

-Specific ways to create a paper trail so you don't get caught in a bind like Leanna

-How to buy food based on the season

Episode links:

Get Leanna Haakons book Young Fun and Financially Free!!

 

Follow Leanna!

Twitter @Leannablackhawk

Instagram @leanna_hawk

website youngfunfree.com

website blackhawkfinancial.ca

 

Do your homework on brokers

FINRA/brokercheck

Places to get contracts

Legal Zoom

Nolo

Rocket Lawyer

 

Leanna recommended  the Flipp app for finding organic produce on sale

 

seasonal fruit guide from The Balance https://www.thebalance.com/the-cheapest-fruits-and-vegetables-month-by-month-1388345

 

To apply to be a guest on the show for our new once a month listener episode email us your

-money story

-money lesson

-everyday money tip

 

to info@financialgrownup.com

And we’ll be in touch if you are chosen!!

---

Transcription

Leanna Haakons:
It hurt. It hurt from the money side of it, and I was ashamed. I was embarrassed. I had so many sleepless nights, and I was embarrassed that someone that I had trusted so much, that was a friend, that I was so close to had done this to me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. But, you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But, it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Before we get to today's guest, I am really excited about an announcement that we are going to be making at the end of the podcast about something new that we're going to be doing here at Financial Grownup. I'm going to fill you in after Leanna Haakons' story. Stay tuned until the end. But let's talk about Leanna. She is the author of Young, Fun, and Financially Free, and a financial marketing expert. You see her all over the media. She had a great plan to buy a car, and then sell it in time to use the proceeds for tuition, but she learned a terrible lesson when a trusted friend betrayed her. Here is Leanna Haakons. Leanna Haakons, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Leanna Haakons:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I am so excited to have you, first of all I love your book Young, Fun and Financially Free. You're also not just an author, you are also a financial marketing expert. You have a lot of wisdom to share with us.

Leanna Haakons:
Thank you, I appreciate that.

Bobbi Rebell:
Part of that wisdom has to do with a story, the car, your first year of college, and thinking things were going to go one way, and then there was a surprise and not so pleasant ending. Tell us what happened.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah. I call this story my school of hard knocks story. My first year of college was a lot of learning about finance, and doing that whole traditional [inaudible 00:02:14] going through school. But it was also a school and year of hard knocks in the financial, the personal financial, world. I had gone to my first year of college in Toronto, and come back to the West coast, to Vancouver, where I grew up. I needed a car for the summer. I was working at a gym, and I needed to open up the gym at 5:30 in the morning. That was before public transit was running. I needed a car to get to the gym really early in the morning. I had been working four different jobs throughout the school year to be able to save up money so I could get my first car, which was this little blue convertible with white leather interior, it was so cute, it was awesome. I was just so excited to get this car.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you had a plan for the car.

Leanna Haakons:
Yes, I had this whole plan. I worked super hard during the school year, I saved up the money, and I had this friend of mine that I'd known throughout high school for years, and he's sort of a brother to me. He had said "Well, if you save up the money, I'll buy the car for you in cash, and then you can use it throughout the summer while you're working, and at the end of the summer I'll sell the car for you, because I have this car dealership, and get the money back for you and give it to you, so you can use the money to pay for your school when you go back to Toronto in September, when you go back to school again." I said "That sounds like a great plan, because I need the money for school expenses." I thought it would all work out great. Sounded perfect.

Bobbi Rebell:
You were basically renting the car.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah, well, effectively that was the plan was supposed to be. All did not go according to plan. I ended up giving him the keys at the end of the summer, after I'd used the car. I thought it was the perfect plan. It didn't end up working out that way. This led to a series of events where I had to learn-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, wait, what happened? What happened? You handed back the key and he did not hand you the money, it's what I'm assuming.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah. I gave him the keys back to the car and he vanished. I never heard from him again. After-

Bobbi Rebell:
The car vanished too?

Leanna Haakons:
Of course, yeah. It had been about six or sevens weeks, and tuition was due, expenses were due, of course I was renting the apartment, the bills were coming in, I was freaking out. I ended up having to get a line of credit from the bank. I had to ask my dad to cosign for it. Some hard lessons were learned there. My dad was a big believer in not immediately bailing me out, which he could've done, but he wanted me to learn the hard lesson that you don't just give up your assets to people without having a paper trail. I had thought this person was a trusted friend of mine. I'd known him for many years. I thought he was someone that I could trust. You know what? You just don't give your keys and your assets to someone without having a paper trail.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do the paperwork. Do you know even now, years later, whatever happened to him?

Leanna Haakons:
Well, this is another story.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a backstory? Did he owe people a lot of money? Was he in trouble? Did he have some reason even if we don't like it? At least something happened why he did this to you?

Leanna Haakons:
Along the way, probably about eight months after the fact, he did end up giving me some excuses, lies of excuses, very, very horrible excuses thus to why. He didn't give me the money, and apparently things had happened in his family, [inaudible 00:05:25] people had passed away that were in his life, family members and whatnot, which I found out years later they were still alive. It was a total con. This person knew immediately what they were doing. I ended up finding out from the insurance company that the car was transferred to someone else the week that I had given him the keys to the car, gifted to someone else with the value of zero dollars with the same last name as him. He knew what he was doing right off [crosstalk 00:05:47]-

Bobbi Rebell:
It was deliberate.

Leanna Haakons:
It was deliberate, 100%. I found that out eventually, and I did run into him actually about three years ago or so, maybe about 10 years later. That was a showdown. I'll tell you that much.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Leanna Haakons:
I won't give you the details, but it wasn't pretty.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give us a little detail, now that you said that.

Leanna Haakons:
It didn't get physical, I'm not that kind of girl, but it was ugly that's for sure. But, I never got any of the money back. But it was definitely a ... it was a hard lesson for sure. I think $10,000 was around the amount that it was. When you're that young, it takes a lot of time, and a lot of hard work to save up that kind of money. It hurt, it hurt from the money side of it. I was ashamed. I was embarrassed. I had so many sleepless nights. I was embarrassed that someone that I had trusted so much, that was a friend, that I was so close to had done this to me. Especially when I found out months after the fact that the car had been signed over to someone else. I knew it was deliberate.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me, what is the lesson for our listeners?

Leanna Haakons:
There are so many ways that people can be taken advantage of, or at risk with your money, whether it's with your investment dealings, whether it's cybersecurity, identify theft, financial infidelity in relationships. There are so many ways that people need to be careful with their financial dealings. That can be within families and friendships as well as I experienced, how that all gets intertwined. There's lots of different things that you can do to protect yourself. I mentioned some of those things in my book, Young, Fun and Financially Free.

Leanna Haakons:
There's also things like FINRA's BrokerCheck. Whenever you're going to go into a new investment dealing, you're looking to working with a new financial advisor, you should go on to something called BrokerCheck, which is a FINRA program, and you can look to see whether that investment advisor has had any marks on their record, and see if there's anything on there that you should be aware of. Because you need to be your own best advocate when it comes to your financial dealings. The moral of my financial grownup story is don't ever give away your assets to anyone without having a paper trail, and that you really need to keep really good records of your own transfers, payments and passwords. You have to be your own best advocate when it comes to your financial dealings.

Bobbi Rebell:
On a lighter note, you brought a great money tip. But also an important thing that people do spend a lot of money on, and sometimes it's not necessary, you call it I think the dirty dozen?

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah. I'm a really big advocate as well that sound money decisions start with putting healthy food into your body, and making, I call it a healthy body healthy wallet decision. Spending consciously and something that they call in the healthy food world, the organic world, is their dirty dozen. There's sort of the top 12 dirtiest produce items that you purchase. If you want to be buying organic, and buying healthy food, and putting healthy food into your body, there are sort of the top 12 things that are most important to buy organic. If something like that is a priority to you, then you should be spending consciously on those items. A great way to do that is to download an app like one called Flipp, F-L-I-P-P.

Leanna Haakons:
You can download an app like Flipp and you can browse different grocery stores, supermarkets in your area and see what's on sale. Buy consciously. Make buying healthy organic food a priority, but do it smartly. Shop at a couple different stores in your area, do your research, and look at what's on sale at Whole Foods, Trader Joe's or the stores in your area. Find the things that are on sale, and beware of the things like the dirty dozen fruits and vegetable that should be bought organic.

Bobbi Rebell:
What are those? Give us some examples of them.

Leanna Haakons:
Things like apples, carrots, things that you buy that you eat peel of mostly, those are the ones that have the pesticides, they're all covered in pesticides, those things you want to buy organic. Apples are always at the top of the list. Things like bananas that you take the peel off of, you don't really have to worry about as much, but you'll also notice that bananas in the stores as well, those are pretty cheap to buy organic, so you don't really have to worry about those as much. Anything that you are also cooking that you boil or something like that as well, you don't have to worry about as much because the boiling effect usually kills a lot of the pesticides. But, you can find that list anywhere, if you just google the dirty dozen, you'll be able to find that list anywhere. Then an app like Flipp can help you find organic produce, or organic meats and natural food items as well. Finding an app like that is really helpful to be able to get organic food on sale.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, let's talk quickly about your book, Young, Fun, and Financially Free. Thank you so much by the way, you sent me not one, but two copies, because we're going to give one away to a listener. You have to tag this episode in a post on Twitter and tag both me, I'm on Twitter @bobbirebell, and what's your Twitter handle?

Leanna Haakons:
Mine is @leannablackhawk.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Tag us both and we will pick someone within a week of the episode dropping, and we will send one of you a copy of her book. Tell me more about the book.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah. The book is a really easy read. It takes about five hours to get through, so you can do it all on a weekend. It's a nice cover-to-cover read, sort of the money 101 on anything from spending, saving, investing, insurance, just sort of an adult [inaudible 00:11:18] book 101.

Bobbi Rebell:
We need books like that.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah. You know what? When I was young and I got my first job in finance was in the stock market doing investor relations when I was 18. I was really into this stuff naturally. I started trading in individual stocks when I was 18.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah, so I really love this stuff. But you know what? Even for me, a lot of the books that I picked up, I wanted to be reading them, but even I wasn't getting through them cover to cover. I wanted to write something that people, that even if they weren't interested in this stuff naturally could read it cover to cover, get a few [inaudible 00:11:53] out of it, there's some funny money quotes in it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, there's some very fun quotes in [crosstalk 00:11:58].

Leanna Haakons:
Yeah, so I just wanted it to be light, and something that people could actually enjoy reading whether they're interested in this stuff or not, they can enjoy it, and it doesn't have to be something that they struggle to read, whether their parents or their friends are kind of forcing them, or asking them to read it or not. It's actually something enjoyable read.

Bobbi Rebell:
I enjoyed it, and I enjoy this conversation with you. Thank you for being my guest. Where can people follow you on social media?

Leanna Haakons:
I am on Twitter, @leannablackhawk, or Instagram, leanna_hawk, they can also find me on my website youngfunfree.com or at blackhawkfinancial.ca.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it. Thank you so much.

Leanna Haakons:
Thank you so much for having me, Bobbi, loved the show.

Bobbi Rebell:
This story really broke my heart, because we can't through life not trusting anyone. This was someone Leanna had known for a very long time, this was someone that was part of her community. Financial Grownup tip number one, unless you are willing and financially able to part with your money, get it in writing. There are plenty of places like LegalZoom, Nolo, and Rocket Lawyer, I'll leave the links in the show notes, where you can download forms and create simple legal documents for things like selling a car, or other assets. By the way, I don't have any affiliation with any of these companies, but those are some names that you can look at, they may be a good place to start and see if they are the right fit for your needs.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Leanna talked about knowing where to spend your money on organic vegetables and fruits. I would add that you should also be thinking about what is in season and what is grown locally because it is in season. Because when something is not in seasons, they often source it from far away places around the world, because these days most of us can get any fruit or vegetable that we want any time of the year, because of being able to basically, as I said, source it from around the world. That doesn't mean that we should, the best deals and the quality often happens when we keep it simple and eat the foods that nature wants us to eat right now.

Bobbi Rebell:
In April, here are some names, ready? Artichokes, asparagus, broccoli, cauliflower, leeks, lettuce, mushrooms, pineapples, radishes, rhubarb, and spring peas. I'm going to leave a link to a calendar and the article from the balance that I grabbed those names from in the show notes, it also has every month of the year so you can go through that article from the balance and look up what fruits and vegetables are best for what month of the year.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, now the time for the big announcement. We have been hearing from a lot of you wanting to share your Financial Grownup stories, your lessons, and of course creative money tips. We're going to start having one guest a month be a listener. If you want to be considered, we're going to keep it simple, see how it goes, email us at info@financialgrownup.com, info@financialgrownup.com and tell us what money story, and what money tip you would share if you were chosen. I'm so excited to hear from you guys and bring all of you our first listener guest.

Bobbi Rebell:
That is the Leanna Haakons episode of Financial Grownup. Subscribe if you have not already. Help us spread the word by sharing on social media. I am @bobbirebell on Twitter, on Instagram @bobbirebell1, and go to bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast to learn more about the show and sign up for a mailing list, so you can hear about things like how to be a guest on the show. I hope you enjoyed Leanna's story, and that we all got one step closer to being Financial Grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Deborah Owens, aka America’s Wealth Coach  and creator of WealthyU literally drove down the value of her car,  and actually owed money at the end of her lease. She admits she didn’t even know the difference between owning and leasing a car. 

In Deborah’s money story you will learn:

-How Deborah found out she owed money on her car at the end of her lease

-Why Deborah made the decision to lease a car based solely on one piece of information

-The questions Deborah wished she had asked when she got the car

In Deborah’s money lesson you will learn:

-How she has applied the lessons from the first car she had to every future car she has owned or leased

-How she pays for and how long she now drives cars- and her advice for others

-What she learned about where it is best to finance a car

-Her car buying negotiation tips

In Deborah’s Money tip you will learn:

-How to assess big purchases like cars

-What to look for and what to ask when making those decisions

-Why car buyers need to look at more than the monthly payments

-The price of extended lease and loan terms

In my take you will learn:

-Why you need to read not just the fine print but all the print. 

-Specific techniques others will use to get you to sign something without reading it first. 

-The importance of paying attention to how long a loan is, and how you can save money with a shorter loan

Episode Links

Follow Deborah Owens!

Instagram @iamdeborahowens

Twitter @deborahowens

Facebook @deborahowenspage

YouTube Owens Media Worldwide  

Deborah Owens website https://deborahowens.com/

WealthyU

  

Loan calculator links

Bankrate

NerdWallet

Dave Ramsey

 

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Transcription

Deborah Owens:
I went over the mileage and then when I turned it in, they ding me on the mileage, they ding me on the wear and tear, and so I ended up owing them money and then I didn't have a car.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money. But it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends, this is a story about learning to read. As in read what you are signing and understand what is in the document. Sounds pretty basic but I think if we get a little honest here, we're all going to admit that we don't read everything we sign. I mean, good for you if you do. I own a condo, for example, I admit at the closing we sat there for hours signing endless documents, I did not read them all, I trusted my attorney so I'm guilty on that one, hopefully everything is fine, seems okay for now. Deborah Owens is known as America's Wealth Coach and she is the creator of WealthyU. She is also someone that we are going to learn a lot from. Here is Deborah Owens. Deborah Owens you're a Financial Grownup, welcome to the program.

Deborah Owens:
It's such a pleasure to be here Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
And I am so glad to have you here. First of all, your moment that you're going to talk about is a good one and a dilemma that so many people have these days, but before we get to that, I want to ask you to tell us a little bit more about your new project. Because we met when you were doing a radio show but now you are focused fully 100% on WealthyU.

Deborah Owens:
Yes, I am. My journey has been quite the journey in that I really started out in the financial services industry as an advisor and then went on to be in management. And I was previously with a very large company, Fidelity Investments but it is through that experience that I really found what I was really good at. And that was demystifying the financial markets and making it easy to understand for the layman.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. So tell us about WealthyU.

Deborah Owens:
So, WealthyU is an extension of that. It was really taking what I loved to do and that was educate people and give them insight around investing and now WealthyU allows me to scale that competency.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us about your money story that you brought with you because it has to do with a very common decision that so many of us make when it comes to how we're going to get where we're going, our cars.

Deborah Owens:
Yes. Well, as I reflected on this, I believe that the worst financial decision I ever made was to lease a car. Like many people, I was young and I wanted to get off of that. I had this really kind of hootie Mustang that one of my cousins was so angry for me buying because it was a stick shift and when you're learning that's the worst thing you can buy. But long story short, I had a friend he worked at a dealership and he said, you can get this great-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh no, it's an old friend's story. Okay, go on. Sorry.

Deborah Owens:
That great car for a little bit of money that you can afford. I fell in love with this wonderful little 200 in excess and it had a computer in it and it talked and it had everything you could possibly imagine. And then two years later when I turned that car in-

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. Did that you were releasing it, not buying it? Did you fully understand?

Deborah Owens:
All I loved about-

Bobbi Rebell:
You just knew the monthly payments?

Deborah Owens:
Yeah, I loved the monthly payments. I mean, all I was focused on was could I afford this each month, which is how most of us are sold cars that way or even our mortgages are sold that way. So, I could afford it, so I didn't really care. I didn't really think about what would happen when I wanted the next car. And so of course I decided two-year lease and I went over the mileage and then when I turned it in, they ding me on the mileage, they ding me on the wear and tear and so I ended up owing them money and then I didn't have a car. And so I was right where I started before I got the car. And that taught me a very good lesson.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait. So, just to be clear, so not only did you not have a car at the end of the two years. I think a lot of people don't realize. They think if you lease a car, yes you lose out on owning the car at the end of the lease but you actually owed money to the dealer. Can you just explain how that worked?

Deborah Owens:
So, when you lease a car, you have to stay within a certain number of miles each year.

Bobbi Rebell:
So that is something in the contract that you didn't know to look for and therefore didn't read. So, people if you're going to lease the car, you need to look for it and know what it is, right?

Deborah Owens:
Yes. And make sure ... Of course, when they ask me what the estimated mileage that I would have per year, I didn't know what to tell them. I said, "Well what's the minimum amount?"

Bobbi Rebell:
Looking back, what is the lesson that you want to share with our listeners about this money story?

Deborah Owens:
Well, the moral to the story was, if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. The lesson I learned from that really was A, I really wanted to minimize car payments and I wanted to own that car when I was finished with it. So, since then every car that I have purchased has not been brand new, I've either paid for it in cash or put a large down payment on it and I have driven my cars a minimum of 10 years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Okay, good. And you read the contracts too now.

Deborah Owens:
Absolutely. Know what you're getting into. And the other lesson that I learned, rarely do I finance a car through a dealership. Typically, I'm going in, I've already called my credit union to figure out what is the best loan terms I can get and I go in. I don't tell them I'm not going to finance through them but once I've gotten the price that I feel I want, then I tell them thanks I'll have my credit union call you and we'll seal the deal.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm sure they're thrilled.

Deborah Owens:
Well, the less they know the better.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to get a personal finance tip from you Deborah Owens.

Deborah Owens:
The tip that I have for anyone is when you make any kind of financial decision, really look at the long-term impact of that decision. And so the example that I would give, if we were to look at that car, don't just look at what your monthly payments are going to be, look at the total terms of the loan and based on the information that they're giving you, what is the overall cost of the car? What are you paying to own it. I think so often, we're sold things based on the monthly payment and we don't really recognize the overall cost of that financial decision.

Bobbi Rebell:
So always actually run the numbers and think about whether it fits into your long-term goals.

Deborah Owens:
Absolutely. Count the cost is the point I'm making. If you count the overall cost, it's going to cause you to really think about that decision. For example, if you're buying a $20,000 car and let's say you're financing it even at 4%. And what we're seeing is that the way people are qualifying for more expensive and luxury cars is they're extending the payments. The average term used to be four years, now the average term of a car has gone up to six or seven years and some people are paying upwards of 7 or $800 a month. The cost of extending a loan from four to seven years is huge and you're paying thousands of dollars. And the tip there is typically, if you have to extend the term of a loan beyond four years on a car, you probably can't afford it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Truth spoken. All right, and we'll all keep looking out for WealthyU and that app coming and you can check it out on Kickstarter.

Deborah Owens:
Thank you so much Bobbi.

Bobbi Rebell:
I liked this topic because it related not only to one of our biggest budget items, at least for many of us, which is a car or some mode of transportation, but also to anything that involves signing on the dotted line. Financial Grownup tip number one. We always hear, read the fine print. But Deborah admits not only did she not read the fine print, she didn't read any of the print. You also have to read the big print guys. Deborah wasn't even clear on whether she was buying or leasing, she was just all about those monthly payments and it does matter. We all think that way, can we afford the monthly payments. But it also pays to take a step back and think about what you're paying in total.

Bobbi Rebell:
For example, she didn't even know whether she would be keeping the car at the end of the lease. She seems to think that she would have the car at the end of the lease and she was certainly taken aback by the fact that she owed money. She didn't really understand what she had signed up for and if she had, maybe she would not have gone over the mileage limit or she might have made sure that she paid a little more upfront and had a higher mileage limit. She would have had more leeway. Really, Deborah just wanted to get in the car, she wanted the keys and she was going to sign it.

Bobbi Rebell:
So, anything you are signing, read it. Don't let someone rush you into signing something that you haven't read or aren't aware of what is in the document. So, for example, one phrase to look out for that someone might say to you is, it's all standard, it's what everyone signs, it's the same thing. But you know what? You're the one on the hook. So, especially in this case when you're buying a car, go through and take the time to read it, make them wait a moment, patience is key, it'll all be good but know what you've locked yourself into. And make sure that you're okay with it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two. Think carefully about the length of a loan, how much time it involves. So Deborah talked about how car leases are getting longer. For homes, this is also happening. This standard has always kind of been 30 years, now some people even are getting 40-year loans. But as many financial experts will point out, if you can swing something like a 15-year loan, which will have bigger payments, you can not only cut the time you are making payments, so you'll feel good, you'll have no overhead of that big mortgage payment, you're also going to cut the total amount that you pay in interest and that ultimately will make the house or whatever it is that you bought cost you less. It brings down the total cost and it's a good thing if you can swing it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm going to leave some links to loan calculators in the show notes and you guys can play around with the numbers that apply to your situation and figure out what would work for you. Friends, if you have not already hit that subscribe button so you don't miss any upcoming shows, please do so. Also continue to spread the word, tell your friends, share our posts on social media, share this episode on social media if you enjoyed it or other episodes. I'm loving the DMs that you guys are sending me and don't forget you can suggest future guests if there's someone you want to hear from, I'll try to get them.

Bobbi Rebell:
And follow me on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, my author page on Facebook is Bobbi Rebell. And to learn more about the show and get on our newsletter, visit my website bobbirebell.com/financialgrownuppodcast. I hope you guys feel ready to make that big purchase with your eyes open after hearing Deborah Owens great story and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media Production.

When Melanie Lockert and her business partner Emma Pattee launched the Lola Retreat in 2017,  profits were at the bottom of their list. So low they did not even try to get sponsors until just a few weeks before the event. What happened then was shocking. Plus a money tip for the luxury lover. 

In Melanie’s money story you will learn:

-The behind-the-scenes decisions that went into the launch of the Lola Retreat

-Why the creators of Lola prioritized content over profit

-How the last-minute decision to reach out for sponsorship took Lola from a money-losing venture into a profitable ongoing business

-Why they chose not to outsource as they were building the Lola Retreat

-The technique Melanie Lockert and her partner Emma Pattee used to attract sponsors to her first-ever Lola Retreat

In Melanie’s money lesson you will learn:

-The importance of actually asking for what you want

-How to leverage your reputation to build a new business

-How positive thinking even in tough times helped Melanie achieve her goals.

-Melanie’s new approach to negotiation

In Melanie’s money tip you will learn:

-Where to get luxury beauty services at a fraction of the cost

In my take you will learn:

-Why you should aim high when asking for money

-How smaller,niche events can offer great marketing value for even the largest companies

-Ways to save money on services by going to students in places like cooking schools and design schools, in addition to the beauty schools that Melanie discussed

Follow Melanie!

Twitter @deardebtblog @LolaRetreat

Instagram @deardebt @lolaretreat

Facebook Melanie Lockert

Melanie’s Dear Debt blog

Get Melanie’s book Dear Debt

Learn more about lolaretreat.com

Fidelity.com

FinancialGym.com

Kristin Wong is at TheWildWong.com

Erin Lowry/Broke Millennial is at https://brokemillennial.com/

 

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Transcription

Melanie Lockert:
Something completely shocking happened. We actually did get several thousand dollars of sponsorships within three weeks of the event, and we even got our last sponsor three days before the event. It was just a crazy experience for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grown Up, with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grown Up. You know what? Being a grown up is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grown up, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. You guys know that song, "Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets." Well, the reality is sometimes Lola has to actually ask for it. That is the irony of the story you are about to hear from Melanie Lockert. She is well-known from her blog and her book, Dear Debt, where she chronicled her feelings about the $81,000 of debt that she was saddled with. Melanie is also the co-founder of the Lola Retreat, and yes, the name was inspired by that song, because it is meant to be about women getting whatever they want. While the event is meant to teach attendees how to empower themselves financially, when planning her first conference, Melanie had to learn some lessons of her own in that regard. Here is Melanie Lockert.

Bobbi Rebell:
Melanie Lockert, you are a financial grown up. Welcome to the podcast.

Melanie Lockert:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
People know you from your Dear Debt blog, your Dear Debt book, and your newest project, which we will talk about more at the end of the podcast. Just briefly, what is Lola Retreat, because I know it's happening very soon.

Melanie Lockert:
Yeah. Lola Retreat is a women and money event, and it is a weekend full of education and workshop and panels to empower women to rock their finances.

Bobbi Rebell:
I wanted you to explain what it is because the money story that you're going to talk about has to do with it, and it has to do with year one, which was just last year, and how you've monetized the event and what you did right and what you maybe would do differently and are doing differently this time.

Melanie Lockert:
Yeah, totally. I had such a great money lesson last year. With the retreat, there was so much going on in regards to programming and attendees, and I was so focused on getting the content really wonderful and making sure that we got the venue right, the speakers and everything that sponsors were not really on my mind. I really just wanted to make sure that it was the best even possible, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, and when you say sponsors, you were just funding it purely on the admission that you were charging people?

Melanie Lockert:
Our ticket sales were really getting invested back into the event, so we didn't really know if we were going to make money on this event or not. Three weeks before the event, Emma, my colleague, talked to me, and she was like, "Melanie, we're going to breakeven right now, so if you want to make some money on this event, either we're going to have to cut back or be happy with breaking even." I was like, "I don't like either of those answers. I don't want to cut back because this is our first event, and it needs to be super amazing, and I also want to make some money, even if it's just one dollar." I really needed just that symbolic metaphor that I made a profit, so I was like, "How am I going to do this?" I was like, "I'm going to approach sponsors. People sponsor events all the time. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to approach sponsors, I don't know anything about it, but I'm going to go find some money." In the back of my mind, I thought, "Oh my goodness. It's three weeks before the event. I haven't contacted anybody about sponsorship money. It's too late."

Bobbi Rebell:
Had you guys discussed the concept of sponsors at all? Had it ever occurred to you before this?

Melanie Lockert:
We kind of did, but it was really at the bottom of our list. We really were just focused on making sure the programming was amazing and making sure all of the programmatic details were really in place.

Bobbi Rebell:
So just to be clear, it's not that you were trying and sponsors were rejecting, you just literally had not tried. Did you think about outsourcing it to somebody else, or it just slipped through the cracks?

Melanie Lockert:
It slipped through the cracks. It was something that we didn't really focus on at all. We didn't contact anyone about it until three weeks, and in the back of my mind, I was like, "Oh my goodness. It's three weeks before the event. There's no way anybody's going to give us any money at this point it's too late." But I wanted to do it anyways just so I could cross it off my list and say that I did it, and be like, "Okay, well, I tried to get money. It didn't happen, whatever," but something completely shocking happened. We actually did get several thousand dollars of sponsorships within three weeks of the event, and we even got our last sponsor three days before the event, and so it was just a crazy experience for me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you talk a little bit about how much money you got in sponsorships and maybe speculate what you think you may have left on the table had you tried earlier?

Melanie Lockert:
We did get several thousand dollars worth of sponsorships. I don't want to get into specifics, but I definitely know we did leave some money on the table.

Bobbi Rebell:
You made a profit of more than a dollar first of all, to be clear.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes, we did.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's excellent.

Melanie Lockert:
We did.

Bobbi Rebell:
You think you left money on the table?

Melanie Lockert:
I do think we left money on the table because, first of all, we did give sponsorships at a discount because it was so late, number one. Number two, there's only so much you can do in three weeks, so we didn't have really the time to foster that kind of outreach and sponsorship beforehand, and I think if we would've had more time to dedicate earlier on that we could've had more sponsorship money and really been able to fund the event in a better way.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you do differently in year two?

Melanie Lockert:
This year we've definitely worked on approaching sponsors earlier. I'm happy to say that we're going to be working with Fidelity on a welcome reception for Lola Retreat year two. I'm super excited about that. They are a wonderful company, and they've always supported women and money. We're definitely working with a lot of scholarship sponsors this year. That makes me super happy because the scholarship sponsorship is near and dear to my heart. Essentially people sponsor a lovely lady to come to the event who wouldn't be able to otherwise come, so they get to read over the scholarship applications and they get to pick who they think would be a good fit to come to the event. It's really interactive, it's really an affordable sponsorship too, and at the end of the day it's one less ticket that I need to sell, so we've been focusing on that a lot as well, which is fun for me, and I really enjoy that part of it.

Melanie Lockert:
Yeah, I think this year we've had kind of more time to focus and more outreach, and then really focus on big partners. We've loved to work with Fidelity this year and continue working with sponsors that really align with our values.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson now? I know that we are still a couple weeks away from Lola Retreat. What is the lesson for our listeners about this? What's the takeaway?

Melanie Lockert:
The lesson is that you should always ask, and you should really check yourself if you think there's no way that you can do something because in my mind, I had already made up the fact that, "Oh, no one's going to give me money. It's too late. It's three weeks before the event. Why would anyone take me seriously?" Mind you, it was scary because in year one, this was before the event, we had nothing to show for it. We had no photos, we had no testimonials, we just had a website essentially. We had nothing.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, you also had your reputation. You had a very strong reputation, as does your partner.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
You did have that. That's a lot.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes, we did have that, which is definitely helpful, but from an event standpoint we had nothing necessarily to show, "Here are the testimonials, here are what people said, here are photos, here's impressions from the social media from that weekend." We had nothing concrete to show, and so in my mind it was like, "No one's going to take us seriously. No one's going to give us money," and I just had already made up my mind, but I was so shocked kind of how easy it was. I mean, it wasn't super easy, but it wasn't that difficult either.

Bobbi Rebell:
People said yes.

Melanie Lockert:
People said yes more than they said no actually.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow.

Melanie Lockert:
I think I was just so passionate about women and money and doing this event, and I think people could see the grit and the passion in my words, and they can understand the idea. People were willing to invest in that idea, and those initial sponsors, I'm so grateful for because they really believed in us and our idea from the beginning when we had nothing to show. I'm really grateful for them, and then it just proved to me, like what other areas of my life am I convinced that, "Oh, this isn't going to work out, or this wouldn't happen," but if I just try, maybe it will. Actually, this is a reoccurring lesson for me. I actually when I was a non-profit employee before becoming self-employed, I had never asked for a raise once. Not once. I'm so ashamed that I've never negotiated my salary until becoming self-employed, because as a self-employed person, you have to learn to negotiate or you will not survive. This is kind of a reoccurring money lesson for me is that I have to know what I'm worth, and I have to negotiate, and I have to ask, and really at the end of the day, the worst thing people are going to say is no. No one's going to laugh at your idea and say you're stupid and call you ridiculous and think, "Wow, you think you're something else," or "you think you're a bigshot."

Melanie Lockert:
No one's going to say that. They're just going to say, "No, we can't do that." It's really okay. I'm really trying to push my boundaries and figure out other areas of my life that I can push and really kind of change the game a little bit.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let me just ask you before we get to your money tip. In terms of the money, you made a few thousand dollars in year one. In terms of how much more you're going to make this year, can you give me some idea of how the results changed when you were more purposeful in asking for sponsorships?

Melanie Lockert:
That's a good question. That's still TBD because we still have a lot of expenses that are going to be in the queue in the next coming weeks, but projecting right now it looks like hopefully double what we made last year, which would be really amazing, but like I said, we're not totally sure because there are a lot of last minute expenses that come up towards the end. We will see how everything shakes out, but I'm feeling pretty good about everything right now.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to talk about your money tip because this one is brilliant, and I never thought of this. This is really original, and it's something that can let us all have our luxuries and indulgences, but within our budgets, or even just to save money for other things that we want to do even if we're not on a tight budget, so it's nice to spend a little bit less for luxuries in life. Do tell.

Melanie Lockert:
Totally. Yeah. My money tip is to go to a beauty school for haircuts, pedicures, manicures, or massages or facials. When I was paying off debt, I didn't really have extra money to do anything, but I still wanted to treat myself at least once a year to something, especially when I hit a big debt milestone, right? I found this beauty school in Portland, and the rates were so insanely cheap because all of them were students, and before you get scared, they do have kind of more professional level people there working alongside the students to make sure they don't mess up. I remember I paid like $35 for a pedicure, a manicure, and a facial.

Bobbi Rebell:
Total.

Melanie Lockert:
Total, and I'm pretty sure the school had a policy that you couldn't tip either because it was a school, so it was super affordable. It was really affordable. My money tip is to find a local beauty school in your area and see what services they offer. It could be much, much cheaper and at a fraction of a cost, and at least in my personal experience, it was wonderful. If you have a specific person that you love or specific things then maybe that's not necessarily the best tip for you, but for me, the services were completely comparable and totally worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that. Let's talk about the Lola Retreat. It is in my hometown, New York City, this year.

Melanie Lockert:
Yay, I'm so excited.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell us more.

Melanie Lockert:
Yeah, it's going to be at the Financial Gym, so Shannon McLeigh, the CEO and founder of The Financial Gym is one of my best friends.

Bobbi Rebell:
And she was on the podcast last week.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes, she is amazing, and she has graciously agreed to host us in New York city, so Lola Retreat is at The Financial Gym April 27th through the 29th, and we are going to have sessions on how to pay off debt, how to get started with investing, how to level up your money with Kristin Wong. We also have Get Your Financial Life together with Erin Lowry. We also have some really interesting panels on how to prepare and deal with financial disaster as well as this concept of F Off Funds. I won't curse on the podcast, but it's especially important for women, especially right now for women to have a separate stash of cash to be able to say, "F you," in a situation that is not healthy, whether it's a workplace scenario, a relationship scenario. I think it's so important, so I'm really excited about the content that we have, and so excited to meet our lovely ladies. Yeah, I think it's going to be a wonderful weekend.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where should I send people to sign up for Lola and to be in touch with you?

Melanie Lockert:
People can go to LolaRetreat.com and check it out. People can also find me at DearDebt.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Melanie Lockert, Lola Retreat. Can't wait to get there. It's going to be amazing. Thank you so much.

Melanie Lockert:
Yes, thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. Loved hearing how far Melanie and her partner have come in just one year of the Lola Conference. Here's my take, Financial Grown Up tip number one. Aim high. In year one, Melanie didn't think she would get any sponsors. She was shy just about reaching out to anyone at all, but here we are, just year two, just a second year, and she has incredible brand. She has Fidelity, guys. Sensei, Shopkick, and of course The Financial Gym, so don't write off a large company assuming they will only sponsor large events. They will find, often, a lot of value in smaller, targeted, specific events that have engaged and invested audiences as is the case with Lola.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up tip number two, be creative when it comes to treating yourself. If you're feeling deprived financially because you never get to do anything, you are much more likely to cheat, just like on a food diet. Melanie talked about going to beauty schools for things like manicures, massages, facials, all that good spa stuff, but sticking to the theme of students, you can also, for example, have a great meal at a cooking school, or if you're redoing your home or redecorating one of the rooms but have a limited budget, consider getting a student from a local design school involved, and just think, you could be someone's final graduation project. You never know.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, if you enjoyed Melanie's story, please hit the subscribe button, and if you have just a few minutes, leave a review on Apple podcast. They really do make a difference in getting the word out. I am also working on getting better at sending out my newsletters, so if you are not already on the list, get on the list. Just go to BobbiRebell.com. While you're there you can check out previous episodes by clicking on Financial Grown Up Podcast, and of course, be in touch. I'm on Twitter @BobbiRebell, Instagram @BobbiRebell1, and my author page on Facebook is Bobbi Rebell. I hope you guys all head out and treat yourselves to some affordable indulgences just like Melanie, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grown ups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grown Up with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.

When model and actress Victoria Summer got her big break first in Saving Mr. Banks, which starred Tom Hanks,  playing Julie Andrews, and then in Transformers 4, she was happy about the big upfront paycheck- but got really excited when she learned about residuals aka passive income. 

In Victoria’s money story you will learn:

-About her first big breaks as a hollywood actress

-How the pay system in Hollywood works

-The similarities between acting and modeling and other “gig” economy jobs

-How Victoria manages to balance one-time paychecks and residual income

-What her one big spurge was after that big paycheck

In Victoria’s money lesson you will learn: 

-How Victoria creates multiple income streams

-Why Victoria organizes her money in different bank accounts

-Her philosophy of acting like she is broke as a budget motivator

-Her goals to start a skin care line, a vegan handbag line and grow her production company

-Her strategies to promote herself as a brand

-The importance of top line income

In Victoria’s money tip you will learn:

-The danger of taking advice from the wrong people

-The warning signs to look for in advisors

-Why well-intentioned advice can often be off-base

In my take you will learn:

-The importance of choosing side hustles that complement, not contradict your primary career

-Why taking advice from well-meaning friends and relatives should be taken in context. 

-The best way to find the right people to give you career and business advice.

Follow Victoria!

VictoriaSummer.com

Twitter: @VictoriaSummer

Instagram: @VictoriaSummer

Facebook: Victoria Summer Entertainment

---

Transcription

Victoria Summer:
Us as actors, we are personal brands. And all actors have to realize that you really are selling yourself. So for me it's work on promoting myself as a brand, and also, increasing the amount of income I can have from multiple streams.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to financial grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell. Author of How to Be a Financial Grownup but you know what, being a grownup is really hard especially when it comes to money.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then, my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone. So if you were to do a social media post about the gig economy, what kind of image would you use? Probably maybe an Uber driver, a millennial doing graphic design or coding or someone running errands at services like Task Rabbit.

Bobbi Rebell:
But take a minute to think about the business of acting. After the studio system ended, actors were in many ways pioneers in the gig economy. My guest today is a rising star. She is actress Victoria Summer, and she got her big break playing Julie Andrews in Saving Mr. Banks which starred, Tom Hanks.

Bobbi Rebell:
But the movie that gave her first really big payday, and key here is that it was more than just an upfront paycheck, was Transformers four. Here is Victoria Summer.

Bobbi Rebell:
Victoria Summer, you are a financial grownup. So great to have you on the podcast.

Victoria Summer:
Thank you. Great [inaudible 00:01:43] to be here.

Bobbi Rebell:
For those of you who don't know her work you will soon. She is a rising star, actually you've really risen, what am I saying. You were Julie Andrews in Saving Mr. Banks, you've been in Transformers Four, and you've also been with me on Bold TV, that's how I met you in New York City recently. And I'm so glad we're connecting on the podcast now.

Victoria Summer:
Me too, yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
And speaking of those roles, even though your big breakout hit was in that phenomenal role in Saving Mr Banks, your big money story actually has to do with really your biggest paycheck to date came from Transformers Four, and it was a big lesson to you, very eyeopening in something that is very relatable in what is becoming more and more of a gig economy, where we get sudden spikes of income. Tell us more.

Victoria Summer:
I actually remember when I booked that job, it was for me ... Even though I didn't say it in Mr Banks, it was the biggest job I'd ever booked, because it was such a big franchise, it was Michael Bay. I was going to be on set for three weeks with all these huge actors. And of course I knew, I was going to get residuals on that job. I was very excited about the passive income that I could make, not just the money that I got up front from being on set, but the passive income.

Victoria Summer:
At the time, I was living in a guesthouse, I'd not really been settled in LA that long, and it was just a big deal for me. So I thought, oh my God, wow, this big check upfront, three weeks of work which is a big deal for me at the time.

Victoria Summer:
So yeah, my lesson really was working out, how was I going to actually manage that money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Well tell me a little bit more about how it works, because people may not understand how the payments work in Hollywood, you get paid very sporadically, really only when you work right. So most movies you just get a set paycheck and then they're done, at least that had been your experience up to this point.

Victoria Summer:
Yeah, but what happened to me on Transformers was they wanted me to be on set specifically for three weeks, so they bought me out for a three week period. And that was my deal, and then after that, once the movie aired, then I got residual income. So you get that four times a year. You get it quarterly.

Bobbi Rebell:
And one of are the challenges as an actress is that, you have income that is completely unpredictable. How do you manage that?

Victoria Summer:
Completely unpredictable, because for me, I'm doing auditions day in day out, and unfortunately, although I wish I did, I don't get paid for additions. And auditions take up a huge amount of my time. And when I'm working say on a movie like Transformers, you have a lot of money all at once and you tend to think, oh my God, I'm rich. What am I going to do with this money, oh my goodness.

Victoria Summer:
So for me, I've had to be careful and learn how to strategize in order to make sure that for the downsides and the down periods that I have with no work, that I have money set aside.

Bobbi Rebell:
One quick digression question. Did you buy anything, any little splurge Victoria?

Victoria Summer:
I bought a dog.

Bobbi Rebell:
You bought a dog. That's a necessity in life okay. That's not a [crosstalk 00:04:44] splurge. That's the best and I know you had your dog with you in New York, so that's not a splurge. That is always allowed. We advocate pet ownership here, they're the best.

Bobbi Rebell:
I want to get your lesson though because, it's important for our listeners to understand how ... You have ways that you manage having such sporadic income, and a lot of it is psychological. So share with us your lesson from that story and really from being an actress and learning to deal with what is it many cases 'cause you don't always get residuals. And even the residuals, you don't always know what they're going to be. These sort of spurts of unreliable income. Which again freelancers, the gig economy, we can all relate.

Victoria Summer:
Yeah, I mean with residuals you're absolutely right, you have no idea how much it's going to be. So whenever I get a check, it's always like oh, okay. But, you know, you can't predict that. So for me first and foremost is multiple streams of income, but also you know, when I do get these sort of big check windfalls, I make sure to put money aside. And honestly, from day to day, the best thing that works for me in my life particularly, is staying broke.

Victoria Summer:
I'm not saying poor, I'm saying convincing myself that I'm broke because I kind of ... For me as a person, I work very well on a highly necessity level. I tend to pull things in when I feel like I have to.

Victoria Summer:
So what I do is I have reserve bank accounts which are basically for future investments. So I move any money that's sitting around into these bank accounts to create passive income flows and also to use to set up other businesses. And so for me day to day, I do feel like I'm broke, and I work like I'm broke.

Bobbi Rebell:
And what kind of investments do you focus on?

Victoria Summer:
Well, for instance, I want to start my own skin care line, and I'm also wanting to start a vegan handbag line and that's important to me. Plus also my production company, I have to invest time in that. So that's really where my money goes is to start other businesses and to expand my brand really. I mean, honestly us as actors, we are personal brands, and all actors have to realize that, that you really are selling yourself.

Victoria Summer:
So for me it's work on promoting myself as a brand and also increasing the amount of income I can have from multiple streams.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that's so smart and it's an interesting thing because, just like so many other businesses, the film business and the acting business has really evolved and is so much more driven by individuals and there's a lot of opportunity in that, but it also means that you have to be really smart about it. Yu have to be deliberate, as you are, and intentional, all those buzzwords.

Victoria Summer:
Yeah, you do. You have to be really smart and honestly, I focus on income. Every day I'm looking at okay, where's my money, where can I go and get money at this point, where is my next paycheck coming from, and how can I get more money from the different areas that I work in, and how can I expand? So I really do focus on income more than anything.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which is so smart, and that also brings us to the money tip that you brought because that really has to do with believing in yourself.

Victoria Summer:
Yes. Absolutely. To me, it's interesting. I didn't grow up in the kind of family where they were working in the theater or they were working on movies. My dad worked in the mail room of a bank, my mom worked in a school as a secretary, so I come from a prime middle class family, and I was always told, cut your cloth according to your means, never use credit cards, don't take any risks, that kind of thin.

Victoria Summer:
Honestly, I just had to get educated on the finance for myself. I think my money tip would be, don't take advice and don't listen to people close to you who really don't understand your business, or don't understand the actual area of money. They probably haven't had very much money, and they give you advice on money, but they really have given up on money themselves. So for me, just be careful of who you actually take advice from, and get educated.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes, you have to own it yourself, which is what we're trying to do here at Financial grownup. So Victoria Summer, tell us where you can be found on social media, your website and what you're up to these days.

Victoria Summer:
Yes, you can find me on Instagram at Victoria Summer, on Twitter at Victoria Summer, and then on Facebook, Victoria Summer Entertainment. Then you can also, for more information go to my website victoriasummer.com.

Bobbi Rebell:
This has wonderful. Amazing advice, you are such a smart cookie my dear. I am so impressed with so many different things going on, and you're so smart with your money. I truly appreciate you joining us.

Victoria Summer:
Thank you very much for having me, it's great taking to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
So I think we all learned a lot about the acting business and how erratic the paychecks can be, so it's definitely part of the gig economy. So here is my take, financial grownup tip number one, Victoria talked about her multiple income streams and her business aspirations, which at first had me a little bit concerned about whether she was really focused enough on acting. But then when I really thought about what she was saying, it did start to make a lot of sense, because she was looking towards businesses that were complimentary to her skill set, and her primary career as a model and actress.

Bobbi Rebell:
So for example, she wants to have a skincare line. That makes sense. she's got a background in modeling and she's beautiful. She also wants a vegan handbag line, and she of course has a production company. As a model and actress, that can make sense. If she were an accountant who wanted to start a skincare line, maybe it makes less sense. Not that it couldn't be done, but you don't really have the same kind of synergies.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two, Victoria talks about being wary of advisors that aren't successful in your field. Basically she's talking about well meaning friends and family that don't really understand the nuances of the business that you're in. Because, they have ties to us, sometimes the people closest to us have complicated motivations. For example, and it's well meaning, but a parent may advise a child to be more cautious in their career because the parent may prioritize security over risk, when maybe it takes risk to be successful in some careers, many careers. But especially something like acting.

Bobbi Rebell:
Instead, maybe try to find a mentor that is in the business that you are in or aspire to be in, and then get advice from them. You'll get a more experienced vantage point, and maybe without the baggage of being a stakeholder in your life. Now we want to ask something of you. If you liked this show, help us get the word out. Tell a friend, write a review on Apple podcast, i Tunes or wherever you want, or just share this episode on social media. Be sure to tag me and then I can share it on that platform as well, and I love it by the way. A lot of you guys have been DMming me and, telling me how much you like different episodes. That's awesome.

Bobbi Rebell:
Victoria maybe a glamorous Hollywood actress but I found a lot of her story actually pretty relatable, and very relevant to a lot of the universal themes in our lives, and I hope you got a lot of value out of the conversation as well, and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK media production.

Trade Bodge and her partners set out to build a business- that they knew was challenging before they even started. But they focused on funding, building a strong foundation, and learning from the past mistakes. 

 

In Trae’s money story you will learn:

-The market opportunity Trae and her partners saw when they created ThreeCustom.com

-The challenges the new business faced, including the difficulty of scaling up

-The creative way they funded the business

-Why Trae left the business

In Trae’s lesson you will learn:

-The challenge in finding the balance between waiting until a business is “ready” and moving forward while there is the most excitement

-Why she believes entrepreneurs should pay as much attention to how time their launch, as how they spend their funds

-Specific ways to research markets ahead of time, and during the early stages of a business launch including trade shows and how to get competitor insights. 

-How to use time to your advantage

In Trae’s money tip you will learn

-Where to find money, that is already yours, to fund your startup

-How they each saved $25,000 to put towards their business

-How to avoid feeling deprived when saving for a goal

In my take you will learn:

-The realities of start-up life

-What to do when you just aren’t that into your startup

-Tips to make sure you remain financially solvent even as an entrepreneur with a startup

 

Episode Links

Threecustom.com on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ThreeCustom

Traebodge.com

Follow Trae!

• Twitter https://twitter.com/truetrae

• Instagram https://www.instagram.com/traebodge/

• Facebook https://www.facebook.com/Truetrae/

---

Transcription

Trae Bodge:
We had the best intentions. We wanted to get out there and start this business. We found out that customization is very difficult to scale, and so any business who has attempted to do bespoke or customized products can attest to this. It's very, very difficult to grow a business like that.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup, but you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, everyone. This is an episode about starting something really big, being all-in, and then finding out maybe it's not for you and having the strength to, well, exit gracefully. My guest and her partners were off to the races with what seemed like a genius idea: blend customer colors to replace makeup products that were no longer available. But, while the business is still chugging along, Trae Bodge left and is now a smart shopping expert that you can see all over the media and with her column in Women's Day. Here is Trae Bodge.

Bobbi Rebell:
Trae Bodge, smart shopping expert, you are a financial grownup. Welcome.

Trae Bodge:
Thanks so much for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations, by the way, are in order for your new Women's Day column.

Trae Bodge:
Oh, thank you so much. I'm really excited to be partnering with Women's Day as their financial expert. I'm covering everything from best buys month-to-month, how to maximize your tax return, how to save on your Amazon purchases, all sorts of things that savvy shoppers need to know.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. We will definitely put a link to it in the show notes. I'm excited to hear your money story because, first of all, it has to do with the beauty business, it has to do with being entrepreneur, and it has to do with how much money do you really need to start a business? Do tell.

Trae Bodge:
Many years ago, two friends and I thought that we wanted to start a beauty business that specialized in the reproduction of discontinued colors. This is something that one of my partners and I had done for another brand that came on to the scene, blew up really quickly, and then fizzled out really quickly. Because, we found out, is that customization is very difficult to scale, and so any business who has attempted to do bespoke or customized products can attest to this. It's very, very difficult to grow a business like that.

Trae Bodge:
But we had the best intentions. We wanted to get out there and start this business and custom-blend products for women, and men, of course, and makeup artists. We started, for the first couple of years, creating our plan, saving our tax returns, saving our bonuses very-

Bobbi Rebell:
Saving the refunds from the tax returns.

Trae Bodge:
Yes, yes. Saving our tax refunds, and planning along the way. What this business was about was really about answering a problem that many women had, which was when you have a favorite product, like your favorite eye shadow or your favorite lipstick, and then that product is continued, we set out to reproduce those products as close as we could to the original color and texture. Then we kept that formulation on file so you can reorder it any time. Now, I [crosstalk 00:03:33]-

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that.

Trae Bodge:
It's such a helpful process for so many people because you finally find that thing that works, and then suddenly, you can't get it anymore. Forgive me, I do sometimes speak about it in the past tense because I'm no longer with the business. The business is still alive and well. You can find it at threecustom.com. My two partners are still running the business, but about four years ago, I decided that I needed to move on and do new things, which is where I landed as a smart shopping expert.

Bobbi Rebell:
Tell me, what is the lesson from that story? What is the takeaway?

Trae Bodge:
For me, and in terms of being a financial grownup, when we set out to start our business, there's this excitement and energy about getting the business out there right away. My recommendation to all potential entrepreneurs out there is I know you want to get out there and you want to get out there now; however, the time that it takes to save the money or to crowd-fund, for instance, if you're going to do Kickstarter or Indiegogo, or if you're going to look for venture capital or money from family and friends, the time that it takes to gather that money is time that works for you. You need the time to do your market research, to attend trade shows, to interview people and really flush out what you want this business to be because there are so many brands out there. How are you going to differentiate and set yourselves apart from the competition?

Trae Bodge:
For me, I would say to people, just take your time. Don't get frustrated by how long it takes to start a business, and use that time to your advantage.

Bobbi Rebell:
Give us a money tip, something tangible that people can literally do today.

Trae Bodge:
This is a tip that I think can apply to many things, whether it's going to be starting a business or paying off your student loans or any other debt is to take money that may feel like a windfall, and rather than spending it and going on a luxurious trip or buying a fancy handbag or even doing a renovation in your apartment, save that money. Save that money towards your business.

Trae Bodge:
What my partners and I did over the course of about two years is every tax refund we got, every bonus that we received, and then any extra money from if we inherited a little bit of money or anything extra like that, we did not take that money for ourselves. We put it in the bank. The three of us each saved over two years. We were in our early 20s at the time. We each saved $25,000. For the three of us, we were able to start our business with $75,000 after couple of years.

Trae Bodge:
That would be my money tip is that money that feels like something extra, instead of going to town with it and spending it, put it away towards your goal.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it's hard because you feel like it's found money.

Trae Bodge:
Yeah. It does. It is hard. It almost feels like you're on a diet. It's like you have that diet and you have the rules in front of you and everything you're supposed to eat and not eat, and you really, really, really want to eat that thing that you're not supposed to eat. To me, it's the similar feeling. You see that money, cross your hands, and you so want to go out and enjoy it and treat yourself because especially with, say, a bonus from work, it's like that's being given to you as a congratulations for work well done, and you want to enjoy that, but instead, put that away. You'll save money so much faster than you think you can.

Bobbi Rebell:
Trae Bodge, thank you so much. Wonderful story. Wonderful advice. We will all be checking out your column in Women's Day and visiting your website, which is traebodge.com, right?

Trae Bodge:
Yes, it's traebodge.com or truetrae.com, and definitely follow me on social. I'm truetrae or traebodge. I hope to see you all there as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wonderful. Thank you.

Trae Bodge:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I loved Trae's story because it highlights the gray areas of startup life. Sometimes, a business is solid, but maybe not the future that you want. It's not a bad thing. It's just not your thing. Financial grownup tip number one: Leaving something that isn't right for you is like leaving a relationship with someone that you are just not that into. You could stay. It will probably be okay, but by staying with something that isn't for you, you're also not finding the business or career that is right for you. It's the missed opportunity cost. Don't get caught up in sticking something for fear people judging you or an idea that you are not a quitter. It's not about the exit. It's about what you find behind the door that you open as you leave.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two: As Trae says, whenever you start something new, don't rush in. Take the right amount of time to build yourself enough runway that you can be intentional when you do ramp up. You don't want to be scrambling for cash to fill an order. Be purposeful. Spend the time before you spend the money.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thank you all for your support. If you have not already, hit that subscribe button so you won't miss any episodes, and be in touch on Twitter @bobbirebell, Instagram @bobbirebell1, and of course, visit my website bobbirebell.com and sign up for our mailing list so we can keep you posted on what's going on at the show, and of course, spread the word. Tell a friend. Thank you also to Forbes for naming Financial Grownup as one of five podcasts that are getting it right. That was really cool. I hope you all enjoyed this episode with smart shopping expert Trae Bodge and that we all got one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

John Schwartz, NY Times correspondent and author of the new book “This Is the Year I Put My Financial Life in Order” shares the story of his first home purchase, how it brought him to the brink of bankruptcy, and why he flosses every day. 

In John’s money story you will learn:

-How John’s seemingly solid real estate investment went downhill

-How the rights of tenants can put owners in losing positions

-The specific financial steps John took ahead of a likely bankruptcy filing

-The factors that went into John’s decision about bankruptcy

In John’s lesson you will learn:

-Why John says failure is not the end of your financial life

-How John and his family rebuilt their life

-The specific steps John took to financially protect his second home

-What he would and would not have done differently in buying real estate

-The impact of a broad-economic downturn on individuals like John, and how you can create some protection as a home owner

In John’s money tip you will learn:

-The one health tip that John says will save you a ton of money

-The importance of daily health habits to avoid massive medical bills

-How his life informed his book “The is the Year I Put my Financial Life in Order” and how the book came together

-Why John did not have a will until his late 50’s

-John’s advice on retirement savings

In my take you will learn:

-Real Estate is a high stakes game, that should be entered into with eyes wide open

-My take on what John could have done differently

-The choice my family made to avoid investing in a property that would be hard to sell

-Why I still believe owning real estate is a great opportunity, despite the tax law changes

Follow John!

Twitter: @JSwatz

Facebook: This is the Year Schwartz

 

 

Buy John’s book!! : This is the Year I Put My Financial Life in Order ! 

---

Transcription

John Schwartz:
My father-in-law said, "You have to file for bankruptcy." I contacted a couple of bankruptcy lawyers and the one that I ended up with said, "You don't need to file for bankruptcy, you need to get out from under the single debt that's killing you."

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup. With me, certified planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How To be a Financial Grownup. You know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone, before we get into today's interview, I want to do a quick thank you to all of you for supporting the show. Our numbers are going up, which is really cool. The show is being discovered and I have all of you to thank for it. I also want to thank some of our friends in the media that have highlighted Financial Grownup, including Forbes, which named Financial Grownup one of five podcasts that are getting it right. We were up there with some really big names like TheSkimm and Masters of Scale with Reid Hoffman and Powderkeg and a Rent the Runway related show, so it was pretty incredible to get that recognition.

Bobbi Rebell:
I also want to thank Business Insider for highlighting our recent episode with The Muse's co-founder Kathryn Minshew. Her story is pretty incredible, so I'm glad more people got to learn about it. Thank you to all of you and I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Okay. Now to the show. Many of us bring our A game to our professional lives. I certainly try to, but then we don't always make the effort at home. Think of the chef that whips up these gourmet, amazing meals at their fancy restaurant, then they go home and they can barely scrounge together maybe a grilled cheese or some leftovers. Who knows? New York Times correspondent, John Schwartz, is that guy. No, he's not a cook. He's obviously a journalist, but he does research for a living.

Bobbi Rebell:
He's written four books and he's also been a journalist at a number of prestigious publications. Right now, as I mentioned, he's at The New York Times, but in his personal life, he messed up and it cost him, and it kept costing him for years. It was really bad. But, the story of the author of his new book, This is the Year I Put My Financial Life in Order. Sensing a theme here, he got it together. Does have a happy ending. Just maybe not what you were thinking. Here is John Schwartz. Hey John Schwartz, you are a financial grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

John Schwartz:
Well, thanks it's great to be with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Congratulations. Your new book, This is The Year I Put My Financial Life in Order is coming out right now. I whipped through this book by the way in a day and a half, which is pretty amazing, cuz I can be a bit of a procrastinator, but I couldn't put this down. It was a great book.

John Schwartz:
God, I'm glad to hear that. Thank you so much.

Bobbi Rebell:
How long did it take you to write it, by the way?

John Schwartz:
It was a little more than one year.

Bobbi Rebell:
I brought that up, because within the book is this gem of a money story that, I don't know, at first when you told me it I was disappointed in you, but when I read it in the context of the book, I respected you and I felt like, wow, this could happen to anyone. Tell us your money story.

John Schwartz:
Well, we bought an apartment in New York, which is either a success story or the beginning of a horror story. In our case, it turned pretty bad, because I got a job in another city.

Bobbi Rebell:
Which should be good-

John Schwartz:
Which should be good. Again, career advancement? Exactly. But, we got there and not only could I not sell the apartment in New York, because we had bought at the top of the market, but when we had a tenant, which also seemed like a pretty good idea, that tenant decided to stop paying. And, knew his rights, as he told me over the phone. I was either gonna have to spend a tremendous amount of money on lawyers to get him out or as the super in the building suggested, kill him.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, no.

John Schwartz:
No, exactly.

Bobbi Rebell:
He is alive and well. Let's just make that clear.

John Schwartz:
Right. Well, at least, last I checked. Then, over time all our savings were gone. We were faced with near bankruptcy and ended up defaulting on the apartment and losing it. As a little side note, that apartment's worth more than a million dollars today.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wow. Can you give us some of the numbers involved and how this happened?

John Schwartz:
Well, it was $136,000. I believe, it might have been 138, my memories not perfect. We were able to pull together the down payment in part, because my wife had a little inheritance from her grandfather and I'd been making pretty good money at Newsweek. We were able to make the payments, but we were not able to make those payments and pay our rent in Washington. That's where the money really started to kill us.

Bobbi Rebell:
And the tenants weren't paying.

John Schwartz:
And the tenants were paying nothing. Well, we have the first tenant, I finally got him out at the suggestion of a very kind lawyer who said, "Send him a letter telling him that you won't pursue him legally if he just leaves."

Bobbi Rebell:
So, you forfeited money.

John Schwartz:
He was never gonna pay. I was gonna spend more money pursuing this guy in court and the lawyer, very intelligently said, "Don't throw good money after bad. Just see if this is enough of an incentive to get him out." It was and he left. Then we got the next tenants in. Again, just as with the first guy, we did a credit check, looked good. We tried to do eyes open transactions here. The second couple was very nice, but a few months in the woman called me and said, "My husband's left and I can't pay." I said, "Okay. Get out." That's when my father-in-law said, "You have to file for bankruptcy."

John Schwartz:
I contacted a couple of bankruptcy lawyers and the one that I ended up with said, "You don't need to file for bankruptcy. You need to get out from under the single debt that's killing you. Everything else, you're banking all your other payment. You're living right, but you have this one unsustainable debt, this mortgage." He walked me through the default process.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners here?

John Schwartz:
The first lesson is failure, really crushing failure, as much as it hurts, is not the end of your life. It's not even the end of your financial life. We went through this, more than 20 years ago. You gotta imagine I was devastated by it, but over time we were able to rebuild. Before doing the default, I had been able to get a mortgage on a place in Maryland. So, we had a home that we could not lose.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were smart with your timing. You did this very thoughtfully. You didn't just let it default. You thought, "Okay, before we let this happen, what financial things can we put in order?"

John Schwartz:
Right. How can I fix this to the extent that I can fix it? So, we were in the house. We went through the process on the other place. It was our new beginning and that's the message. That you can take failure and turn it into the next step of your life. In fact, when we sold that house five or six years later, we were able to sell it at twice the purchase price. Now, we bought it, it was a wreck and we really had to fix it up. That's-

Bobbi Rebell:
You put in the work.

John Schwartz:
... sort of the way we do things. We put in the work and we found a place that was seriously underpriced in the market. Largely, because it was such a wreck, but that turned around everything for us. We went from total failure to in a house, to a pretty good success.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love a happy ending. Looking back though are there things that you would have done differently or looking back, it just happened. Would you have not taken the job in Washington had you known what a debacle the New York apartment would be or really, it just happened and this is the way your life is?

John Schwartz:
I think I could have done things more intelligently. The way that I was looking for an apartment was more about feel than really working through the numbers and understanding what I was up against. I didn't know and might have been able to figure out that this apartment, which was part of a co-op conversion was happening in a building where the for rent apartments were not shifting to co-ops quickly enough.

John Schwartz:
One of our big problems was that we couldn't sell it, because banks didn't want to lend money in a down market in an undersubscribed co-op. Now, those were things I only learned after the fact, but wouldn't it have been smart to learn them before putting money down? Research counts. I mean, I do research for a living, right? I do the research and I type.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your job, but not your personal life sometimes. That's what happens to all of us, right?

John Schwartz:
That's right and that's the story of this book. Learning to do for myself what I do in my job.

Bobbi Rebell:
Part of my enjoyment in reading this book was getting some of your little tips in life. Tell me the money tip that you are gonna share with us that everyone can put in place. Hopefully, they're already doing it, but it actually is a money tip even though people may not think of it that way.

John Schwartz:
Okay. If you're ready for this, it's flossing. Now I sound like that dentist from Sesame Street. Could I just say a few words about flossing? Flossing's important not just because it helps keep your gums healthy and all that stuff, it is something that I started to do in my late-20s regularly, after I had a bout with a periodontal condition. I needed a procedure. After that, there was not a day I missed flossing.

John Schwartz:
What flossing does, more than helping your gums, but I'll get back to that. Is that it establishes a daily habit. Establishing daily habits is the foundation stone for all sorts of good things. If you can floss every day, then you can exercise every day, if you can find the time. Then you find how to make the time. If you can exercise every day, maybe you can save a little money.

John Schwartz:
You can show discipline in other parts of your life, but even more than that, your teeth and gums are gonna be healthy. You're gonna have a much smaller chance of running into the kind of mouth problems that I had in my late-20s, which are expensive. Even if you've got insurance, you've got deductible and everything else. It's part of using good habits to prevent, preventable problems.

Bobbi Rebell:
It all goes together. The book, This is The Year I Put My Financial Life in Order. I love it. Tell our listeners a little bit more about it.

John Schwartz:
Well, it's coming out on April 3rd. It is part guide and part memoir, which is a sort of weird blend, but you know. Reese's put together chocolate and peanut butter and that worked. The idea is that I put my financial life in order by applying research to the problems of my life and the issues that were still undone. Like, I was in my late-50s and I didn't have a will, which is idiotic. I hadn't looked at my retirement to understand whether I was gonna live comfortably, or whether I needed to do more, whether it was a disaster.

Bobbi Rebell:
But you are okay, by the way.

John Schwartz:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
Spoiler alert. You're fine.

John Schwartz:
Yes, spoiler alert.

Bobbi Rebell:
Good to hear.

John Schwartz:
Largely because I started putting money away in my 20s. The first time I got a significant raise, I opened a 401k and put the money in. There are no financial secrets in this book, but there are a lot of fundamentals like, start early and make your contributions. These were the lessons that got me through. The idea behind the book is, I would hope that by reading what I went through, people could figure out what they can do too.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people find you, John?

John Schwartz:
I am on Twitter at @jswatz, J-S-W-A-T-Z. There's a Facebook page for the book, This is The Year Schwartz.

Bobbi Rebell:
Love it.

John Schwartz:
It's fun, but the Facebook page is there to talk about the book and for people to talk about their own financial issues. The book is gonna be in stores or you can get it anywhere.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Well, I am a huge fan, John Schwartz. I highly recommend everybody read it. It is a page turner, which is not typical of personal finance books. So, definitely everyone check it out. Thank you so much, sir.

John Schwartz:
Thank you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Here is my take on what John had to say. Real estate investment glorified in our society, but make no mistake, it is a high stakes proposition and sometimes life and the macro economy gets in the way. Financial Grownup tip number one, buy what you can sell later on. Always think, how will this sell? You can read more in John's book, but in short, that apartment that he bought, because he could afford it, to be fair, was not in a great family neighborhood. He got a good deal, he thought, but when the apartment went for sale in tough times and he needed to sell, it just wasn't selling.

Bobbi Rebell:
Case in point, when my husband and I went to buy our current apartment, there were two identical apartments for sale in the same building, same layout. You get the idea. One was a lot cheaper, like 25% cheaper, a lot. We could have really used the savings, but there was a catch. A giant flashing orange neon parking sign right across the street. You could see it through what would be our son's bedroom window.

Bobbi Rebell:
We rationalized a little bit. Many apartments in New York face brick walls, so this at least was facing open air, just at night there would be this giant flashing parking sign. We could get blackout shades though, right? You know what? We ended up going for the other apartment on a higher floor, not a great view, but an okay view and no parking sign, because we knew that the pull of buyers when we went to sell would be limited even in an upmarket and it could be nonexistent in a downmarket, if we went to sell that apartment where people just would not buy it. Some people, no matter what, they are not buying the apartment with a flashing orange parking sign that would be in their child's room their whole childhood. So, John found out that sometimes an apartment that's a deal, is not really such a deal.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup tip number two, don't give up on real estate. John kept at it and had a great experience the second time around. I'm a big believer in owning your own home. The tax breaks are not as good as they used to be, but you're not gonna live in fear of a landlord raising the rent, or simply asking you to leave.

Bobbi Rebell:
Friends, be sure to check out John's new book, This is The Year I Put My Financial Life in Order. You will learn from John, but you will also laugh along with John. It is a fun and readable memoirish personal finance guide well worth your time. Thank you all for spending a little bit of your day with us. Keep up the great feedback. I am on Twitter @bobbirebell, on Instagram @bobbirebell1. I hope you enjoy this episode with John Schwartz and that it brought us all one step closer to being Financial Grownups. Financial Grownup with Bobbi Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

Growing up with dad Tony Robbins taught Josh Robbins the value of the intentional and unapologetic splurge.  Josh Robbins shares the no-regrets story of his 11-year old self blowing a huge sum of money on one of the most memorable days of his life. 

In Josh’s money story you will learn:

-The lessons Josh learned being behind the scenes at his dad, Tony Robbins events

-How at age 11 Josh started his own business 

-Josh’s sales strategy

-The unexpected way Josh spent his profits

In Josh’s lesson you will learn:

-Josh’s philosophy on material goods vs. experiences

-His thoughts on whether he should have invested his profits in the market

-Josh’s take on side-hustles

-Josh’s advice on how to find more time to accomplish your goals

-Josh’s warning about social media and Netflix

In Josh’s Money Tip you will learn:

-How to find out what fees your are paying in your 401(k)

-How the law concerning 401(k) fee disclosure has changed

-What level of fees is considered too high

-What to do if your plan is costing you too much

-The financial consequences of even a 1 percent increase in fees

In my take you will learn:

-Why I at first disagreed with Josh’s financial decision, and how he changed my perspective

-The value of shared experiences and the memories from them 

-The financial impact of how you choose to spend you time, not just your money

-Strategies to invest in yourself

Episode links:

To check what you are paying in your 40 (k) go to showmethefees.com

To learn more about Josh Robbins and America’s Best 401 (k)

AB401k.com

Tony Robbins donates all of his book proceeds to Feeding America. 

To learn more about Tony Robbins Feeding America: http://www.feedingamerica.org/

Follow Josh Jenkins-Robbins

Twitter @jenkinsrobbins

Facebook: Josh Jenkins-Robbins

 

Growing up with dad Tony Robbins taught Josh Robbins the value of the intentional and unapologetic splurge. Josh Robbins shares the no-regrets story of his 11-year old self blowing a huge sum of money on one of the most memorable days of his life. In this Financial Grownup podcast episode you'll learn how even a 1% increase in fees can have consequences and the ways you can invest in yourself. #InvestInYourself #Money

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Transcription

Josh Robbins:
I would love to say I was really smart, and I saved it, and I stuck it in the market, and today, it's worth a million bucks. But I actually took it home, got about 10 of my friends, rounded them up, and we all went to the local fair that happened to be in town during that time in the summer. We had the most fun time ever. We spent all thousand dollars, walked in there with nothing.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, Certified Financial Planner Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Today's story is about living your life, not your bank account. I'm not talking about being irresponsible like blowing your child's college fund or not saving for retirement. I'm just saying it is okay to give yourself permission to enjoy what you earned. Create memories with your friends and family. Josh Robbins is the Chief Strategy Officer at America's Best 401K, which is a major disruptor in the retirement business, one that I actually talk about in my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup. Josh is also the proud son of Tony Robbins, whom I have had the pleasure of interviewing a number of times and who contributed both a story and the foreword to my book as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Josh, of course, as you can imagine, had an unconventional childhood to say the least, and as an adult, he is truly living by his father's life philosophies. This was a great conversation for me, because it reminded me that we have to live our lives and create great experiences with those we love. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Here is Josh Robbins. Josh Robbins, you are at Financial Grownup. Welcome to the podcast.

Josh Robbins:
It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
I can't believe it's been almost a year since we met. We met at the Nasdaq. Your family was being honored because of your dad's charity, Feeding America, and how many millions of meals has that been?

Josh Robbins:
Gosh. You know what? It's already ... He donated the profits from both of his financial books Money: Master the Game and Unshakable. And so, now, it's over 300 million meals.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Josh Robbins:
And now, they're on track to do a hundred million meals a year for the next seven years. So they'll have done a billion meals just through the profits and through also, just through matching. So, at Feeding America, if anybody's listening, wants to make a donation, Tony will match it. I think it's feedingamerica.com/tonyrobbins. Really simple. So he's committed to making a difference.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting because you grew up in a very interesting environment, where you would be backstage at your father's events. Tell me your money story. You were a little entrepreneur, at what age? 11?

Josh Robbins:
Yeah. I was always trying to figure out how to hustle and run around and make money. And so, Tony has these big seminars. And back then, they'd be like these marathon events like 10 days long. There was one, that I remember in particular, where there's about 5,000 people there. So every lunch and dinner, they'd go out to these big giant tents, these meal tents, where people were sitting down eating, and I pounced on that opportunity to work on my sales skills.

Bobbi Rebell:
What did you do, Josh?

Josh Robbins:
I ended up buying these key chains that were really inexpensive.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you remember what your cost was?

Josh Robbins:
I think my cost was a buck, and I was selling them for like three to four.

Bobbi Rebell:
Nice. Big profit.

Josh Robbins:
Yeah. So, big profit margin, and everybody loved it, because I'd come to the table. I think everybody just loved the idea that an 11-year-old was kind of selling [crosstalk 00:03:29]-

Bobbi Rebell:
You were probably milking that cuteness, you know?

Josh Robbins:
Yeah, well, it's like girl scout cookies, like what? Are you going to say no? So, anyway, it was fun. I ended up raking in about a thousand bucks over the course of this event.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh. Wait, so, $1,000, like, what's the math on that? $3 each. Oh my gosh. You were selling a lot of key chains.

Josh Robbins:
A lot of key chains. I think everybody in that event had those key chains at the end, and I'm sure they all felt super obligated to buy one too. So, it was great.

Bobbi Rebell:
But it was a high quality key chain, I'm sure.

Josh Robbins:
Oh it was incredible. I'm sure they're still around today.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right, so you walk away with a thousand bucks. So that, first of all, that's a great, great story because that's your entrepreneurial venture and you're learning. But then what happened to the money? You go home, then what?

Josh Robbins:
I would love to say I was really smart, and I saved it, and I stuck it in the market, and today, it's worth a million bucks. But I actually took it home, got about 10 of my friends, rounded them up, and we all went to the local fair that happened to be in town during that time in the summer, and we had the most fun time ever. We spent all thousand dollars, walked in there with nothing.

Bobbi Rebell:
In one day?

Josh Robbins:
In one day, played every game, wrote every ride, and just did every possible thing you could want to do at the fair, and my friends were ecstatic, and I was ecstatic. It was beautiful because I learned a really valuable lesson, in the sense that, money is just a tool, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Josh Robbins:
And money can be used to create incredible experiences. Stuff is fun for a little while, but experiences are really what life's about. And so, that was such a beautiful lesson for me. Obviously, saving, you know, I learned how to do ... learned that later, but that was a really, really beautiful lesson for me to have.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yeah, so, what is the takeaway then for our listeners? And by the way, where were the parents when this was going on?

Josh Robbins:
Great question. It's like a little bit of the Lord of the Flies stuff going on there.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know. I mean, I don't know. I feel like this is a different era that there are all these 11-year olds running around, spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars each at this day. It's interesting, because millennials now, at least as a stereotype, are into experiences. So is that the lesson for our listeners? There's a line though, there's a fine line, because as you said, if you had invested that $1,000, we could be having a different discussion.

Josh Robbins:
You're absolutely right. Yeah, I think look, for me, I think the takeaway is twofold. One, we're living in the day and age of the side hustle. You know, as Gary Vee would say, I think everybody needs to figure out how to create that additional money that they're going to be able to sock away. So, if they can have it from their job, great. But if they just say, "Hey, you know what? I can't make ends meet," there's always time. What's the average amount of time people watch TV these days? It's crazy.

Bobbi Rebell:
And not to mention social media.

Josh Robbins:
Oh social media. I mean, everything's time drain. So when people say they have no time, I just don't buy it. So, to me, I think creating that opportunity for yourself, to have financial freedom is incredible. So that's got to become a priority, because they can't afford it, right? But you got to pay yourself first. So in other words, let's just say tomorrow, the government raise taxes 10%. We'd all whine and moan, but we'd all end up paying, right?

Bobbi Rebell:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Josh Robbins:
And you got to think about your future the same way. You got to pay your future self in the same way. So, you know, I'm going to tax my current self 10% no matter what or more, but I'm going to do it for my future self. And yeah, it might create some cutbacks in the short term, but if you don't have the cutbacks, go out and get a side hustle. Make it happen.

Bobbi Rebell:
I know one thing you love to focus on, and it's something that we all need to focus on more, is fees.

Josh Robbins:
Yeah, I think one of the most interesting things is ... Tony went out and interviewed 52 top financial minds in the world, and it kept coming back to fees as one of the main themes, if you will. What I mean by that is most people have no idea. In fact, I just read a study recently that said 96% of people know exactly how much they spend for their Netflix account, but 71% of Americans think they pay no 401k fees whatsoever. That obviously is a financial literacy challenge, right? And by the way, that's not unusual. So if you don't know how much you paying in 401k fees, it's purposeful, right? It's opaque at best.

Bobbi Rebell:
Yes.

Josh Robbins:
For the first 30 years of the 401k's existence — it started in 1983 — up until 2012, they didn't have to tell you how much they were charging, how much they were extracting from your accounts. It's crazy. There's no disclosure.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, but now they do. So, how specifically can people find out what the fees are? And how do you know if it's the right amount? Because it's okay to pay a little bit. I mean, people that are running it should get paid, but how do you find it out, and how do you know if you are paying too much?

Josh Robbins:
Great question. So now, they issue this thing called fee disclosures. So the challenge is they're very long and kind of opaque. But you as a participant, if you're on a 401k plan, you should request a copy of your fee disclosure, from whoever your current provider is, and they have to provide it to you. And then I'd start to do a little bit of archeology and take a look at that and uncover those fees. Now, we do that as a free service, which we can talk about later. But the point here is that you've got to uncover the fees, and I would say that 0.75% or less as the all-in fee, okay?

Josh Robbins:
I'm talking about the cost of the funds, the cost of the administration, the cost of what they call record-keeping, all of those should be 0.75% or less, and unfortunately, they're more like one and a half or two and a half particularly for small business. Bobbi, you know this. You know the impact of these fees. People say, "Oh it's only 1% or a small percent." Let me give you an example. If you have two people, two neighbors, both contributing to the 401k the same amount, both get the exact same returns in the market. Okay, and both take out the exact same amount at retirement, all things being equal.

Josh Robbins:
If one has 1% in fees while the other has 2% in fees, the person with 2% in annual fees will run out of money 10 years sooner than the person with 1% fees.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh my gosh.

Josh Robbins:
10 years. A full decade, they're going to run out of money.

Bobbi Rebell:
And we're living longer, which is a good thing, but we need our money that we worked so hard for. So you are the Chief Strategy Officer at America's Best 401k, which I also by the way talk about in my book, How to Be a Financial Grownup, and how you are disrupting the industry. So tell us specifically what you offer and how people could use that to get this information and maybe make the right decision for them.

Josh Robbins:
We just say, "Hey, look, we're going to eliminate all the middlemen, all the brokers, all the unnecessary middlemen. We're going to offer low-cost index funds only, and then we're going to add a very one transparent advisory fee." So our typical plan is like 0.6% or less, all-in for everything. So, that's what we do, and we have a website for people that don't want to go through that whole financial archeology on their own. Whether you're a business owner, or you're an employee, or you're an employee that wants the business owner to pay attention, you can go to showmethefees.com.

Josh Robbins:
Showmethefees.com is a fee checker, where we allow ... We kind of give you like a ... I'm going to call it an initial estimate, kind of like Zillow does its estimate. So we're going to do the same thing. We're going to give you an estimate in the ballpark. And then if you want to take it one step further, all you have to do is just send us that fee disclosure that you can just get from, you know, call the toll-free number of your current provider and just ask them to send it to you and then upload it to us, and we'll help you uncover those fees. What you have to understand is if you're an employee, your employer's on the hook with the Department of Labor with legal liability to make sure that the plan is set up for the sole benefit of the employee.

Josh Robbins:
So they need to look at fee savings and cost savings opportunities. Employers want to know this stuff. And you as the employee can look like the hero, if you bring them a great opportunity to save a significant amount of money, because with just like the 1% and 2% example, when you compound it out over time, these 401ks can be firing on all cylinders, and right now, most of them are kind of limping along in mud. So, there's a lot of work to be done out there. We've got a long road to climb.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right. Well good stuff, Josh Robbins. Where could people find you if they want to follow you? Social media, all that stuff.

Josh Robbins:
Yeah, I'm at jenkinsrobbins.com. J-E-N-K-I-N-S-R-O-B-B-I-N-S. And then our company is at AB401k. A-B-4-0-1-K.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us.

Josh Robbins:
Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey friends. Here's my take on the story that Josh shared with us. Financial Grownup tip number one. Josh gave me a great reminder. A responsible splurge can be a good thing. So when he first told me that he spent all of his earnings on one fantastic day with his friends, at first, I thought the lesson, from his perspective, would be one of regret, wishing he had saved and invested the money. But in fact, decades later, he still has such incredible memories of that day. He really doesn't have any regrets, so I realized my gut was wrong. Now, if you're an adult, you have financial responsibilities. You can't necessarily go blow money from your kid's college fund on a great day with your buddies.

Bobbi Rebell:
But let's put this in context. It was one day's earnings, and he was a kid. He was 11. No one was depending on him. Here it is decades later. The memories of the shared experiences are priceless. Financial Grownup tip number two. Josh talks about making time for opportunity. He has some great reminders to create time for yourself and set yourself up for financial freedom. He points out that he and his dad, Tony Robbins, often hear people say they just don't have the time. Well to Josh's point, maybe watch a little less TV. Spend less time on social media. Find the time to invest in yourself, if that's a priority.

Bobbi Rebell:
Thanks to everyone for your support. If you have not already, please subscribe. If you have a free moment, reviews, totally appreciated. I know you guys are super busy. That's one of the reasons I keep the shows short. Be in touch. I am on Twitter, @bobbirebell and on instagram, @bobbirebell1. And for sneak peeks into upcoming episodes and some behind-the-scenes info about the podcast and my guests, get my newsletter. Just sign up at bobbirebell.com. I hope you enjoyed Josh Robbins' story and that we all got a little bit closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup, with Bobbi Rebell, is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.