Matchmaker and relationship expert Samantha Daniels joins Bobbi to share her top tips to have financially grownup relationships including what to do if you are a spender and your partner is a saver (or vice versa), exactly when and how to talk about money, who pays when you go out and how to protect your relationship when you finances are under pressure. 

1. Understand each other's theories on finances so that you can predict how your partner might react to a given situation (splurging vs conservative, over spender vs saving or a rainy day, spontaneous, etc)

2. If one person is making all the money, make sure the other person feels comfortable that they are sharing the money. There can be a lot of built-up resentment if the non-earning spouse feels like he or she needs to "ask permission" each time they want to spend which isn't good for the relationship.

3. Decide who will pay when you go out as a couple. Who has the credit card, who takes it out of their wallet, regardless of who makes more money.

4. Decide who is going to take care of the monthly finances- all the monthly bills and then create an account that is for those bills so you make sure you can pay them each month without a discussion.

5. If you are going through financially hard times, come to an agreement about priorities on how to spend the money you do have and come up with a budget that works for both of you.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - Summarizes books to just 15 minutes. In fact you can even listen to one minute chunks at a time. They are called these blinks. Try it out for FREE here.

Samantha’s website - www.SamanthasTable.com

Follow Samantha!

• Instagram - @MatchmakerSD

• Twitter - @matchmakerSD

• Facebook - @Samantha.Daniels1

• LinkedIn - @SamanthaDaniels

• Pinterest - @matchmakerSD

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

The cash crunch that led to a business that is disrupting the ultra short-term loan space

Travis Holoway started a Solo Funds, aimed at disrupting the short term, small loan industry by leveraging technology and offering a new kind of lending culture.

Travis: I was working on Wall Street and I was studying to be a broker and there's these exams that you have to take. They're series exams, but FINRA is the regulatory body. You know these exams are very strenuous and you're not really making money while you're studying for those exams.

Bobbi: So give me an example of what a typical salary would be and then what the cost of living is.

Travis: Man, if I remember correctly, I think I was making $250 a week.

Bobbi: Working at a financial company?

Travis: Yes. Working at a financial company in New York City.

Bobbi: What was your job there?

Travis: I was studying to be a broker. It's like a glorified intern, if you will. After you factor in the metro card I couldn't even afford much in the financial district where lunch was costing about $12 a day. So I took a job at CVS. Unpacking trucks, third shift and I would work 10 to six at night. I would come home at six o'clock I would shower, I would put a suit back on and I would head back into the office.

Bobbi: So you literally didn't sleep?

Travis: No sleep at all.

“ So even with working around the clock, I still couldn’t afford any financial surprises. I remember walking like 90 city blocks because I had no money left in my metro card.”

Travis: Actually what happened was I swiped my metro card and there should have been enough for another fair, but for some reason it didn't work. And the attendant told me that I had to mail them my metro card for them to figure out what happened. But long story short, that led to me walking 90 city blocks home. So humbling times.

Bobbi: So you're living this life where you're technically employed by brokers a firm, but you're really a glorified intern earning very little money. You've got a second job at CVS working overnight. So you're really not sleeping much. How does that play out?

Travis: So this situation for me didn't change or evolve until I actually took another job at another financial services firm where there was a more stable salary. And from that point I've been able to rise up the financial spectrum. But it was until I moved and changed positions that I was able to pull myself out of those financial circumstances.

Bobbi: You did pass the exams obviously?

Travis: Yes.

Bobbi: So basically by getting a higher paying job, that's what solved the problem for you?

Travis: Exactly. For me personally, yes.

The lesson here is really to focus on saving

Travis: Focus on getting to that first $500. If you have just $500 in liquid capital, you're actually doing better than half of the country. So people like to get down on themselves because they feel like they're not exactly where they want to be, but it's really a journey. And you know, it's a marathon. It doesn't happen overnight. But celebrate those little milestones along the way. You get to that first $500 saved, keep going, get to a thousand then get to 5,000 and just keep pushing yourself. But this doesn't happen over night for anyone except for power ball winners.

“Later on, I would talk to my friends and they would give me some feedback of what those payday loans actually meant for them. ”

So don't give up. I had friends who had taken payday loans during college and then post college and they would say, hey, just go to this brick and mortar building and get this loan for $400 and I would say, yeah, that sounds good. But there has to be more into that. And then after kind of speaking with my parents who actually steered me away from that and did everything that they could for me to prevent me from taking a payday loan, they're the ones who gave me that knowledge.

While it sounded like a good idea at the time, because their backs were against the wall and it seemed easy to go and get that capital after the fact, it really put them in a very tough financial situation because the fees that compound on top of those loans, it took them months and sometimes years to get out of.

My money tip is if you have the ability, add your teenage child or spouse that may have little or no credit to your credit card account as an authorized user.

Travis: Inversely, if you have a parent or a spouse that has more credit card accounts or better credit than you encourage them to add you to theirs. 28% of the country has no credit from any source and it's really important to build credit. And I personally believe that the FICO score stat, and I know we'll talk about that a little bit later, but credit is still required to accomplish many of life's financial milestones. So with that said, I believe that this is a tip best often overlooked and it's a great way to build credit. One your actual credit and limit I going to be considerably higher than it would be if you were applying for a brand new card. And then also the length of time that that account has been opened will also be a positive benefit to your overall credit report. So as payments are made to that card, they will positively impact everyone associated and it will help people build credit indirectly.

Bobbi: Right. And even though there is a lot of controversy right now about fico scores, especially with errors that can sometimes happen, which people should be vigilant about checking their credits so they can see if there are errors by the way. It is a time when people are looking for different solutions for access to money.

I really wanted to have you on because the company that you are the co founder of and CEO of SoLo focuses on an area that can really be taken advantage of. I reported a lot during the housing crisis on people that had taken payday loans to cover short term debt, but then it can spiral out of control. As you've mentioned, this is a different approach.

About Travis; company Solo Funds

Bobbi: You are the co founder of and CEO of SoLo focuses on an area that can really be taken advantage of. I reported a lot during the housing crisis on people that had taken payday loans to cover short term debt, but then it can spiral out of control. As you've mentioned, this is a different approach.

Travis: SoLo in short is a mobile mini exchange created to provide more affordable access to small dollar loans below $1,000.

We function very much like Airbnb for loans, but we were essentially created to disrupt that predatory payday lending industry that you're speaking about.

“. Lenders actually make a return in the form of a tip, which is optional on behalf of the borrower.”

The way that our platform works is it's a two sided marketplace and we're very different than some of the marketplaces that many have heard of like a lending tree or lending cloud primarily because we're focused on these small dollar loans and those larger, what I call big brother peer to peer lending companies are focused on loans up to $40,000. So that might be debt re-consolidation that might be a down payment on a home. We're focused on that American that's living paycheck to paycheck and that single mother that needs $100 to pay her utility bill or the college student who is $200 short for that textbook. That's who we're really trying to help.


Bobbi: I think one thing that's interesting here is that this could really apply even to families lending to other family members or friend to friend because you're providing a documentation and a paper trail effect if it's digital, but you're providing an authority in between. Because very often people are asked to lend money to people close to them and it becomes awkward. You don't want to be asking them. But if you go through the app, can you talk a little bit about how that would work because it creates a stronger outcome, a better outcome because you've made it more of an official loan, I guess.

Travis: Yes, exactly. So the reason why the platform is built that way is because the personal experiences that I had, lending and borrowing amongst friends and family. With that said, we're making this a real transaction and we're putting real terms around a loan. So people are lending and borrowing amongst each other every day via cash or other applications. But there's no terms around that. So if I wanted to borrow money from my mother and she said, Hey, I'll lend you the money but I'll lend it to you on SoLo, I would create a transaction on SoLo, which is basically saying I need to borrow $100. I as the borrower can actually create my own terms. The lender just agrees to the terms at a later point.


Bobbi: Right. So you can say, I'm going to pay zero interest mom, is that okay? And Mom can say, oh, that's okay. I don't want interest or mom can say I'm pulling money out of other investments. I want 5% whatever it is, you guys can work it out.


Travis: Exactly. Once we agree on those terms, there is a promissory note. A digital promissory note which is created which now says that I owe my mother X amount of dollars and that is actually enforceable. So the lender has track record of how much was lent, when the repayment is due and if there is any additional fee associated with that in the form of a return.

Bobbi: How is it enforceable and how do you guys get paid?

Travis: You know there are no impose fees on the SoLo platform, which makes us much more unique than any other financial platform today. So there are no imposed interest rates and there are no impose fees on behalf for SoLo. Lenders actually make a return in the form of a tip, which is optional on behalf of the borrower. And then solo actually makes a donation, which is also optional and paid by the borrower. Again, no imposed fees. So the enforceability comes into play where if a borrower does not repay, the lender the discretion to send that borrower or not send that borrower to collections. We have a third party collections company that we'll work on behalf of the lender to recover the funds. And once we recover those funds are directed directly back to the lender.

Bobbi: And what is your default rate? How often does that happen and how does it compare to payday loans?

Travis: Our default rate is two times better than the lending clubs, lending trees and [inaudible 00:12:15] of the world. We're about five times better than traditional payday loans. One of the things that investors are most excited about and other people are most excited about is this new creation of a credit score. I believe the fico score is dead because millennials in the under bank demographics are not doing the same. They're not living their lives the way that prior generations have like buying homes, buying cars, and using credit cards. So with that set, alternative data is necessary. And solo has this data on the under banked and millennial demographic and our goal is to be a path forward to upper financial mobility to where we can graduate borrowers from our platform to more traditional financial institutions in the future where they can have more resources and financial tools.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup tips:

#1: If someone that you care about needs money, in a cash crunch for example, and you have the money available but it needs to be a loan, not a gift, make sure you document it. Obviously SoLo Funds is an option to look into, but you can also draw up a payment plan or whatever. Just make sure the terms are clear and in writing.

#2: . Things for Travis did not turn around because he cut costs. They turned around when he got a better paying job. He got a better paying job by putting in the time to work basically as an intern and to study and then pass some big exams. They gave him more viability in the job market. Watch your money, of course, do not spend foolishly, but the goal always needs to be to earn more.

No one can cut their costs to get wealthy. Do the work, get a higher paying job, earn more money or some way to boost your income. That is ultimately what is going to build more money. More financial freedom is having more money. You can't cut your way to getting rich.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Check out Travis' website - https://solofunds.com/

Follow Travis!

• Instagram - @SoLoFunds

• Facebook - @SoLoFundsInc

• Twitter - @SoloFunds

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Limitless author Laura Gassner Otting wanted out of her business, and she wanted to get what she was worth.

But because she only wanted to sell to a certain buyer, she had to be creative in how she priced the enterprise to get what she really wanted.

The exit strategy

Laura: I ran the firm the entire 15 years, not for maximum profitability, I needed to make enough money, right? How do you pay your mortgage as table stakes for everybody and there's something between the need to make number, the how do you pay your bills, and the want to make number which is the do you drive a Hyundai or do you drive a Maserati? Do you stay in the Holiday Inn or the Four Seasons? There's a lot of space in between those two numbers, so I ran it for enough money, not maximum profitability, but for maximum legacy, for maximum flexibility, for maximum impact

“ I wanted to change the world, I wanted to make it a better place but I also wanted to be present for my family and community activity and other things that I was doing, that was how I ran the company. ”

And when it came time to sell the company, we had the company valued by an external source, and then the hard negotiation started which is when I got kind of stuck because my self worth became dictated by the number in that valuation document and whether or not the people who helped me build the company thought it was actually worth it and that I should get to leave with that pot of money.

Or maybe they could shut the entire thing down and start it again without me and be just fine, right?

It's very difficult to sell a professional services firm when the leader leaves because there's this question of is the value of the firm with the leader? Is the Rolodex with the leader? Was the firm synonymous with me? And I felt very confident that in fact it wasn't and that they'd be just fine without me. They were not so sure and they were confident in their work and they were confident in their reach but you just never know and that's a pretty big bag to be left holding if all of a sudden I walk out the door and the clients follow me, even though I wasn't still doing the same kind of work.

“ I spent a lot of time with my ego in a bunch thinking about I’m worth this money”

That's what the outside advisor says and we should do it and then my husband turned to me one day and he said, 'You never ran it for maximum profitability. You ran it to make an impact in the world, to have flexibility in your personal life, to create an institution rather than a cathedral,' and he helped me understand that that was the difference between the need and the want. That everything I've ever created as a serial entrepreneur has still existed to this day, 25 years later, and I'm really proud of that. That money was only one meaningful way to look at value and he really helped me understand that I could sell it for enough money, which would give me the kind of life I wanted to build and the kind of legacy I wanted to leave. P.S. the firm has done so well and probably, in small part because I didn't handicap it with this giant financial burden, that they've actually done better than the projections would have said.

So I ended up selling the firm to them for $1, selling the firm outright, $1, 100 percent of the shares and a percentage of revenue for the following five years which was as far as we've all agreed, I can put my fingertips on any possible success. And that percentage of revenue will in fact, it's on pace four years into the five years, to outpace the number that the valuation gave.

I think the lesson for this is to really think about how you think about value and are you thinking about money

But here's the thing, I bet on them for the previous 15 years because I employed them and partnered with them to serve clients on my behalf with my name on the door. So I'd already been betting on them. It was a pretty safe bet.

And you also gave them a big boost by not saddling them with the cost of buying you out in advance because they didn't have to either pull money out of the resources of the current company or be hampered by debt payments.

And I took a risk on them, they took a risk on me, we were very clear in the writing up of the exit strategy that if I'm out there and I'm bad mouth or if I'm supporting other search firms or I'm doing things that will get in the way of their success, then the agreement is null and void. But I think a lot of this worked because we had invested in each other in the previous 15 years. We had gotten to know each other, we believed in each other and we defined success in the same way. Not as maximizing payment at every single moment but in terms of maximizing impact.

Laura’s Money tip

I think we spend a lot of times when big things happen in the world, sending teddy bears. We send thousands of teddy bears every time there's a natural disaster and the truth is that most of those teddy bears get incinerated. And the money that we could be spending to ship and store and distribute and yet incinerate those teddy bears, we could actually be spending on other things like long term change. And I think that we can apply that to our own lives. We all go to parties, we all go to events, we all have things happen in our lives and we bring along gifts and a lot of times those gifts are just stuff. So I want us to be more thoughtful about the money that we're spending on all of these gifts, that for the most part just make us feel better. Either our egos or our grandmother looking over our shoulder telling us that we have to be polite and not show up empty handed and think about what really would matter to the person who you are in service of.

And be smarter about our money that way.

Bobbi: Can you give me a personal example? Of a gift you've bought for somebody that you really think was on target?

Laura: Oh boy. A lot of those times they tend to be experiences, spending money on doing things together rather than just giving them another thing. It will be spending money on tickets to an event that I know a star that somebody loves and bringing them along with me and sharing time with them personally. I think time is so much more valuable to other people, that's my love language, is spending time with people and really connecting and being present with them. So I think doing things where we can spend experiences together rather than just spending money together, is a great way to spend money smarter.

About Laura’s book Limitless: How to Ignore Everybody, Carve Your Own Path and Live Your Best Life

Laura: When people try to ask me how do you find your passion? People always say, 'You should do work that matters and you'll never have to work a day in your life,' and I actually love work. I know you love your work, any of your listeners know that you love what you do because you can hear it in your voice and you have passion for it and so how do you find your passion? You think about the things that you spend your attention on. So what are the things that you do that nobody pays you to do? What are the things that you do outside of work? Or what are the things that you do at work that are not actually specifically in your job description? That's really where you like to spend your time and the more time that you spend leaning into the person that you are in those times, that's really how you get to do work that you love.


Bobbi: Another theme that is in the book that really resonated is you talk about the metrics we use to measure ourselves and using the wrong scorecard.

Laura: At some point in high school or in college, we were told to pick a major, pick a trade, pick a path and we were handed a list of metrics of success by which we should value that path. And those metrics were things like the brand procedure of the company or the flexibility or the benefits or how many skills we will acquire or yes of course, money, there's a bunch of them that I talk about in the book and they're all given the same weight. And we're told if you make a big salary, if you marry the right person, if you live in the right house, if you drive the right car, you'll be quote unquote successful. And yet, we're all so busy chasing that and running on this treadmill and spending more money in order to do those things, spending money on things we don't love to impress people we don't like, that's not a place where we should be spending our time because what that does is it's forcing us to define success as it's given to us by everybody else around us.


And it's not until we figure out what success really means for us, that we actually will be happy when we find the success. So if you take the metric of money, you might be somebody who likes to go on beautiful cosmopolitan vacations and have breakfast in bed at the Four Seasons Hotel, right? That's going to cost a lot of money but not a lot of time. You might be somebody who likes to go camping and go out into the wilderness and wake up in the morning over a sunrise beautiful lake and make your breakfast on the camp fire. That's not going to cost you a lot of money but it's going to cost you a lot of time. So if you're taking this external definition and just saying, 'I have to keep going and have to keep getting more salary and more salary and more salary,' without thinking about what the money means to you, then all that quote unquote success is going to be meaningless unless it comes with the thing that you want, which actually might be more vacation time instead.

Bobbi’s Financial Grownup tips:

1. Saying goodbye should not be part of your exit strategy.

Exit gracefully, no take this job and shove it, obviously, but then work proactively, have a strategy to stay in touch and be remembered. And still be maybe part of the social network. Stay connected to colleagues from all stages of your life, that could even include school and, of course, jobs, conferences and so on. It's easier said than done but try as much as you can. First of all, it's obviously just nice, odds are you enjoy their company but it's also smart business. That former colleague you connect with once a year, may think of you for an interesting opportunity. So try to stay top of mine. This could even include being strategically active on social media.

2. Don’t send stuff just because

If you want to send something, if something tough has happened to somebody, maybe they lost a loved one, maybe they've suffered in some way, reconsider sending stuff just to send stuff and be aware that sometimes in this age where we don't want to have too much stuff, when you do send stuff, the recipients may feel obligated to keep it. So if you do want to send a thing, not everyone has time or wants to send experiences, maybe consider things that are splurge items that will be used up.

For example, a gift card. A gift card for a nice restaurant so that they can have a break from cooking or a credit to a babysitting agency for a guilt free night out. Or maybe they had a home damaged say by a flood or some natural disaster or something like that, maybe a gift card to a home goods retailer could be truly helpful. Something that they may not want to treat themselves to or they may be stretched to afford that alleviates a financial burden, that might be enjoyed and, of course, in many cases, guilt free because it came from you. Those kind of things can be really helpful.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - Summarizes books to just 15 minutes. In fact you can even listen to one minute chunks at a time. They are called these blinks. Try it out for FREE here.

Laura's website - www.LauraGassnerOtting.com

Laura’s book Limitless: How to Ignore Everybody, Carve Your Own Path and Live Your Best Life

Take Laura’s assessment quiz!

Follow Laura!

Instagram - @heylgo

Facebook - @heylgo

Twitter - @heylgo

LinkedIn - @heylgo

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Episode 200!

Bobbi shares 20 quick and easy ways to be a little more Financial Grownup some of her hopes for the podcast as the show grows up. 

Bobbi: This is a surreal episode. We are celebrating number 200 - and I want to first thank everyone for your support. The DM’s that you send me mean so much- as do reviews so just thank you and I hope I keep delivering value to all of you. Please be in touch and keep letting me know what you like and what you want to hear more of.. and I will do my best to deliver. So for this special episode I kind of wanted to do something fun directly with you guys, 

20 quick and easy Financial Grownup tips

1. Organize your closet to know what you own and be able to find it when you want to use it. Full disclosure I’m in the process. When we moved into our apartment- oh a decade ago- stuff got put away. and we all know how that goes. We are dong a major re-org and I’m working up to actually spending money on a closet system. There’s always something more important- right? I’ll keep you posted and leave links in the show notes for resources. But knowing what you have will keep you from spending on things you.. already have. And if we are being honest- unless you are that really organized person we all aspire to be- it probably has happened. 

2. Donate or sell clothing you have not worn for two years- or choose your own time frame but no a decade is not acceptable and yes I have clothing that is a decade old. So i’m on it too. Let’s face it- we all have stuff  that we know was a mistake-buy. I give myself a 5 out of 10 on this one. There’s more room to go on this. Make sure to get a receipt in case you end up deducting donations on your taxes

3. Go on that trip. Modify it to fit your budget but to not put off your life until you feel you are a “grownup”. I had a hard time last year going to Iceland. It’s expensive. So we went for just 4 nights. Don’t sit home not living your life. That’s definitely not grownup. 

4. Decide on purpose if you are buying or renting for the next 5 years. In other words have a plan.. and play out the scenario of how your finances are impacted by that decision. Write it down and maybe discuss with someone you feel comfortable talking money with. 

5. Make sure your  side hustles actually accomplish a goal. If it’s money- make sure you are making enough to justify the time. If it’s for fun- make sure you really are having fun. Don’t side hustle just because its a thing

6. Plan meals. This is on my aspiration list which is really bad. We eat at home but it’s a lot of same same same. And because we live within a block of several groceries including whole foods- I’m not organized with shopping and often need to run across the street for that one missing ingredient as I’m cooking dinner in the evening. Not grownup. We can all do better. 

7. Understand your paycheck. Go through each line and look up what it is. Just so you know. If you already did your 2018 taxes (we filed for an extension) go through each line there so you understand the tax pain points under the new tax law. You may make different choices if for example, something you used to deduct no longer is. 

8. Clean out your computer and create digital systems. I’ve been working on this and it is already making a difference in my general productivity not just in my business but with life in general. Also my computer runs better when it’s cleaned out. Pro-tip: if it is really bad- drag everything onto a hard drive- wipe it clean- and then only load on the stuff you miss. You might want a professional to supervise. 

9. On that note, create mail systems. I use sane later and I’ve been mostly happy with it to sort e-mail.There is still a lot of room for improvement because sometimes it is too aggressive and puts emails from unknown senders (like a potential client) into spam. Feel free to send me tips on organizing my email better. 

10. Follow brands you like on social to get discounts. For example: we were ordering in last week, I went to twitter, got a discount code, and instantly saved money

11. Read the news. Grownups know what is going on around them- politics is important because it is often the politicians decisions that impact our finances- hello new tax law. Be aware of what is up to date- and by the way that includes things like financially relevant supreme court decisions, and trade war developments. Those can directly impact everything from what things cost to buy, to the job market. 

12. Create a financial slush fund to support your friends charities and causes. Like it or not, as we grow up, we get asked to support friends and actually co-workers causes. Sometimes you even get ambushed when you least expect it- I remember being with my husband at a work related party hosted by someone senior to him at the firm. His 12 year old son hit us up for a donation to his boy scout troop. We had no choice but to give. Multiply that time losing count and that’s what you will start to get. And the truth is that example aside, you want to give. So start to budget for it. And it is more than ok to give $25 even $10. It’s the support that counts. 

13. Focus on being really nice to anyone you deal with in customer service. You can usually get better service and sometimes a better deal. You can even ask nicely if there are any coupons or discounts available. They often are and if you are that nice person, they usually choose to tell you.

14. Read the directions to things you buy and invest the time to really learn how to work them- not just muddle by. This is an aspiration for me. I often rush to use products without really learning to use them. Even my iPhone. I can do the basic stuff but I haven’t invested the time for example, to learn how to take the best photos, or shortcuts that I know are out there. Every time I go to an apple store I learn just from those slide shows they have showing little iPhone tips. So Note to Self- take the time to learn more about the things that I already own - like the iPhone- can do. 

15. Read more books. Books make you smarter. They just do. I try to segment 45 minutes before bed to devote to reading books.That often goes to books of authors that are going to be on the show. I also listen to books on audio when I’m walking around or taking public transportation. And as our regulars know- I use Blinkist to get the best summaries of books I have aspired to read but haven’t gotten to. Done is better than perfect and Blinkist gives me the intel I want to get from the books in the most efficient way. I do audio but you can also get it with just text- and on any device including Kindle. As some of you know, I love Blinkist so much I partnered with them- so if you want to check it out- please use my link for a free trial and to support the show. 

16. Install web extensions like honey , rakuten and ebates so you get cash back when you buy things

17. Sell things you aren’t using for money- and buy used things when they are just commodity items. And yes you can buy refurbished.  

18. Unsubscribe. In your email and also with almost everything you do- then add back in the things you miss. They will always take you back. and you sometimes get a better deal for requesting to cancel. 

19. Be smart about outsourcing. It may make sense to have someone do things for you if they can do it more efficiently and free up your time to do things that either make more money than that person costs you, or if you can afford it, frees you up to have more fun. Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you should, or that you are the best one for the job. Financial Grownup has a great editor- even though technically I know how to edit, Steve does a better job and it is not the best use of my time. Same goes for a lot of my social media. Ashley, my wonderful assistant, is more efficient at it than I am. What should you be outsourcing?

20. Look up from your screen and talk to someone IRL. You could even call someone instead of emailing, texting or messaging via social media. And focus on listening- something I’m definitely always trying to get better at. You never know what kind of business opportunity- or even friendship-  could come from just paying better attention to the world around us. 

Before we wrap- a quick note about the show. If you listened to the April Fools show- but not until the end. It was April Fools. The show is continuing. I do have a lot going on but this show is a labor of love, so I have no plans to stop. That said, my goal for the next couple hundred is to focus on expanding the show and yes- monetizing it. I have two people that help put the show together- Steve Stewart and Ashley Wall and they need to get paid, as do I. So- while the show will remain free- I do ask that you understand that we will be having sponsors on the show. Rather than shortchange you on the editorial content, the sponsors may at times  make the show a little longer. And that’s ok. I have an amazing lineup of guests for the summer that I can’t wait to bring to you- so thanks to all of you for being financial grownups with me. 

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Being a grownup is hard, but being a parent to emerging financial grownups may be even harder. Author John Christianson talks with Bobbi about the challenges of raising financial grownups - when it’s easier for the parents to support them. 

In John's money story you will learn:

Yeah. Well, we've been successful at launching three kids, which we feel very proud of. But, along the way, we made tons of mistakes, and one of those was, we just had a difficult time saying no. Whether it was providing an allowance for the kids, and then they'd run through that allowance, and we'd somehow refill it. But, our story, really, is around providing a car for our kids. We needed the kids to get from our home, to their school, which was a private school about 20 minutes away, 25 minutes away, and they were all ... The kids were in sports.

So, at this point, we didn't have time to have the kids earn enough money to get a car. That would've been nice, but we didn't have that kind of luxury.

The car was really for you, so you, and your wife, and any caregivers in the mix, didn't have to be doing the driving.

Yeah. We were exhausted taking the kids around. We felt like a shuttle bus, taking them to all their events, and all their stuff. So, we needed that for them, and not only did we provide the gas, we provided the insurance and all that. So, it was kind of, yes, to take care of us, and in the process, at one particular day, I remember that we got the call from our son and he said, "Hey, dad. There's a red light on, on the dash." I said, "Well, what's the red light?" It's the engine that's ... That red thing on the engine is blinking, and the car won't start.

Come to find out, they'd run the car to the point where there was no oil. It had frozen up the engine. So, here I am, putting a new engine in the car, that was to help them kind of commute back and forth to school. It was just kind of this constant need for us to keep things moving, and we just didn't do a great job of saying, no, that there's consequences to that decision that you made not to look at the light, when you needed to refill oil in the car. It really came down to our own comfort as parents, and while we talked about, hey, that wasn't a really smart decision, and hey, that engine's going to cost a whole bunch of money to replace and to fix, and it would've great if we would've had more conversation about that before this point. Ultimately, at the end of the day, we put another engine in that car.

There was multiple cars after that, that led to us continuing just to feel like there was this flow of capital out the door, to kind of support what we need our kids to be able to do. So, yeah, I don't feel great about that. I feel like that's the one place in our life that I wish we would've said sooner, no, we're not going to do that. But, we didn't. In a lot of cases we just looked at what would be best for us.

What kind of discussions were you having at the time? Or, would you have liked to have had, I guess? It sounds like you weren't having discussions.

We were having discussions, but they weren't those. We were at least open about the fact, this is really costing mom and I a lot of money. I do remember saying that. This is expensive. At the same time, we were also, though, talking about what we valued as a family, and things that we were seeing in our kids. Which, they were committing to ... Our oldest son was committing to a sport that he loved. Our middle son was working, so we were trying to commit, help support him in that. So, we felt like we were talking about things like generosity, and talking about the opportunities that our kids were able to get that we weren't getting, or didn't get as kids, ourselves, my wife and I. So, we did have lots of conversations about those kinds of things.

So, I feel like there was some success in the types of things we talked about, in the experiences our kids got to have, that ultimately shaped who they became. For example, our daughter was going on mission trips, and helping building homes in Mexico. Our son got to go to Uganda, and do some service work there. Our oldest son, who was playing baseball, got to go to Puerto Rico, and serve some needy people in that area, on a baseball trip. Ultimately, at the end of the day, while I feel like we made some mistakes in providing too much, in some cases, and not having consequence for the cash outflows, I also think those things that the kids got to do, and what they were experiencing, shaped who they became today.

“I want to maximize return on life”

In John's money lesson you will learn:

I think it starts with opening up investment accounts for kids, and getting them ... And, that probably a seed capital from parents. That's money that you've got to put in there, and help them kind of get a sense of how that works, and help them understand what investing does, and the power of that, and the compounding of that, and how that can provide freedoms and choices in their life. It wasn't that we weren't talking about that. We kind of thought that the kids would be able to accumulate enough money, in savings, in allowance, that they would do that on their own, in our home. That just didn't occur.

So, I think that would be a place to start, would be seed some investment account for them. A small amount, or some amount that you can talk to them about. What companies are you interested in? Buy a few shares of a few stocks. I see successful parents talking about that.

The other thing I see parents do, that we did, and I have to say we did it differently than this, but is saying, "Here's what we value as a family. Here's what our family is about, and why we spend money on the things we spend money on." And, articulating that to kids. It's not so much about the dollar amount we're spending. It's almost irrelevant. It's, we're spending money on these things, because we care so much about them, and talking openly about that.

I think we gave our kids that gift of being able to ... Almost, like an entrepreneur, you can go do whatever you want to do, and they watched their mother and I go do that. All those things are messages. I think it's important to think about, if I ... Summing that up, I would say, what are the messages you're sending to your kids? Sometimes, that financial literacy is a great head knowledge, but is there a message in that you want to deliver to them? The message for us was, you can go be whoever you want to be, and we're going to give you the tools, and prepare you for that. Then, we're going to launch you, and we're going to let you go to figure out what that is.

"People that were gaining wealth weren’t necessarily any happier. In fact sometimes it was more complicated"

In John's everyday money tip you will learn:

Move towards something that is in the direction of risk. What I've found is, you don't have to get all the way there. It'd be great if you could, but just take one step towards that. Because, life will pass you by. I just see lots of people who have money, interestingly enough, and can do anything they want to do, don't do that. And, I see people that don't have money, the same. We're somehow wired to stay in whatever our comfort zone is, our cocoon. We're kind of wired to stay there, and it takes effort to take that step. I would just encourage people to take that step.

That's part of what I wrote in my book, which is, I want to maximize my return on life.

One thing that our listeners ask us a lot is, how do you know when you need to switch from the DIY approach to money management, maybe using a robo adviser, to really working with an investment pro? Then, how do we even begin to find one? That's something that you do cover in the book.

Yes, I do. Yeah, it's ... What I've found, is that you get to a point where you start to realize that, both, the assets are going up enough that you don't have the time, the inclination, or the knowledge, anymore, to do it. You're definitely smart enough. I don't think it's a function of how smart you are. It's just, I'm not giving it the attention it needs, even though I have my best intentions to rebalance my account, or to look at a new investment. Or, whatever that is, I just am not getting around to it.

I think there's a point there for everybody, where they have to be honest with themselves, and just say, look, I need some help. It isn't a sign of weakness. It's, I need help, and I'm going to put my time and energy where it's best suited, and maybe that's wealth creating, and I'm going to bring some people around me to help me manage and do some of the things that, either, I don't have the time for, or I just am not enjoying.

How do you identify that person? Especially, another theme you talk about in the book, is the issue of trust.

There's lots of people out there, but I do think it's something that I encourage people to take time. Take time interviewing a variety of people. Make sure there's a connection, both in character, but in capability, and in experience. Because, that trusted adviser role is critical.

There is a difference, I should say, another theme in your book that I just want to bring up quickly, between wealth creation versus money management. It's not the same thing.

It's not the same thing. People confuse that all the time, because they'll create wealth through a business, or a concentrated position in a company, or an IPO, or a whatever, and then all of a sudden they'll get a portfolio of investments, and go, "I want the same returns as that." That's just almost silliness.

It takes a little bit of conversation with people, to go, no, that's the point of money management. The point of money management is to grow that, and diversify it, and protect it, so it's there to fulfill the things you want in your life.

“We just didn’t do a great job of saying “no”, and that there is consequences to that decision that you made” 

In My Take you will learn:

Financial grownup tip number one. Everyone matures financially, at different times, and it's usually okay. John had mixed feelings about supporting his kids, but the truth is, they had the right values. They were doing all the things that they should be. And, yes, they should've been more responsible with things like the car maintenance. But, they are all, now, fully functioning financial grownups. Sometimes, it just takes a little more time, and that's okay.

Financial grownup tip number two. There is proof that when parents give their children money, especially college graduates, to support them and give them a little boost as their starting out in life, these kids do go onto have greater professional success, according to research in a report by Anna Manzoni, Associate Professor of Sociology at North Carolina State University. In other words, giving kids a financial boost, again, assuming you can afford it, is in fact, a great way to put them on a path to success. So, while by no means should you put your own financial future, for example, your retirement, in jeopardy, if you can afford to help your kids while they are doing all the things that they're supposed to be doing, earning money, saving appropriately, and so on, it's a good thing. Life is hard enough.

John's kids have the values that he instilled in them, and when they needed to be financially independent, they were able to.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

www.HighlandPrivate.com

www.JCChristianson.com

John’s book The Wealth Creator’s Playbook

John’s Podcast The Wealth Confidant

Follow John!

• Instagram - @jcchristianson

• Facebook - @jcchristianson

• Twitter - @jcchristianson

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Entrepreneur Charlotte Hale faced a big business dilemma.  When she named what she expected to be a seasonal business, Plum Pretty Sugar, she wanted to evoke a whimsical tone. But the brand soon became a powerhouse as the originator and pioneer of the now global multi-million dollar bridal ‘getting ready’ category, and she faced a challenge she compares to adulting but for brands. 

In Charlotte's money story you will learn:

Let's talk about the name, Plum Pretty Sugar, which makes you happy to saying it. I asked you before we started rolling how you came up with it and that was actually an interesting story because you think things are going to be one way when you start a project and then maybe not so much and maybe that's okay. Tell us your money story.

Yes. After my initial business, I was looking for what my next business was going to be. I didn't really have all the answers. I started what I thought would be a temporary business and it was something that sold robes and it was going to be for a season. By season, I mean a holiday season and just something that I could do easily and quickly and was also fun for me. I thought to myself, okay, well, what am I going to call this business? I gave it this fun, whimsical, playful name, Plum Pretty Sugar. Of course, one thing led to another and Plum Pretty Sugar is now the business. I still have the name obviously.

Did you think about changing the name? Do people approach you about the name? Because I had trouble saying it at the same time when I saw it on the screen, it made me happy. There's something very, as you say, very whimsical about it. Was there a story behind when you thought of the name? Do people talk to you about it and ask you about it now? Does it invite curiosity?

It always invites curiosity and when I named the business Plum Pretty Sugar, I wanted to have something that sort of went against the grain of everything you learned in business school, right? They tell you, you shouldn't have something that has more than three words and you shouldn't have alliteration, and you should create a word that means nothing that could mean everything, i.e. Google, Nike, et cetera. I just went against the grain entirely. You know, of course, I do think about it periodically in terms of, oh my gosh, it's so long, but at the same time it's so long that people almost remember it because it's so long or they changed the words kind of like you did.

Of course, we own all the URLs and all the versions of the order but because it's so long and people are like, "I forget the name," but they know it has pretty plum and plum pretty and sugar are built in there. It almost becomes memorable in a way. On the flip side, I sometimes want it to feel more sophisticated and elegant and more representative of where we are today. That's something that's sort of in my heart. When I say that to other people, they're like, but it is, it represents your brand perfectly. To the outside, I think it works. For me personally because I know where it started and why I started it, I have this back and forth kind of personal thing with it. It's fun. I do like it and we love the business.

It's interesting because you look back and it was almost a whimsical decision in and of itself, but it really was a pivotal branding decision that when you switch the business from being this seasonal business that you originally conceived of to being the permanent business, it's now a decade old, I should say. You did make a decision at some point to keep the name.

I did. I did. I really wrestled with that. You know, I thought, well, I have established the success. Why am I now going to go and change it? You know, it wasn't something that I could easily make up a story for or a marketing story for a while. This was great, but now I'm going to change it. I just felt karma was on my side and I was going to go forward. That said, you know, we have done a couple of different collections that we've called for instance, PPS couture and we will reference ourselves sometimes as PPS when we need to or when we think that it's just a little bit too long for that given scenario. Also, another lesson is that it's really long to write as a logo and so we're always like, okay, how are we going to do our logo when we're ready for a logo update to make all those letters fit within a certain space or how people want logos to fit.

It does sound like what's happening is you are allowing the brand to grow up by having these things like PPS couture, you're adapting it for how the brand is evolving.

Yeah, we really are. I think also the connotation that I have and the whimsicality that it had for me initially, which kind of felt really sort of, I don't want to say young, but fun and lively. Now the way we've reiterated the letters a little bit differently and we're using the positioning of the logo a little bit differently and within the opportunities that we have, we're kind of growing up those words and trying to think of them differently. Sometimes it can be a challenge, but I don't think we can ever take away the name.

“What you think is temporary could be permanent whether it is a boyfriend .. or a business.. what you do in the early days impacts the long term”

In Charlotte’s money lesson you will learn:

Yeah, I guess, never think that something is temporary, what you think is temporary. It could be permanent, whether it's a boyfriend or a husband or business to a business. You know, what you do in the early days impacts the long-term and there's no doubt about that. To always think it through thoroughly and make smart decisions. I kind of knew in my gut when I named it, I was doing something that was kind of off the books and I probably should have listened to that at the time. We're going ahead and the name is staying.

Well, I like the name. I think it makes people feel happy. I think that it's serving you very well and like I said, I think you guys seem to have the way to adapt it in ways that will help the brand grow.

"Purchase quality pieces, think about who made them, where they came from and live with them for a long time.”

In Charlotte's everyday money tip you will learn:

Yeah, exactly. I mean I think for us and we talk about this in the brand too is just purchasing quality pieces, whether it's clothing or whether it's anything in your life, really, just to purchase quality pieces. Think about who made them, where they came from, and to live with them for a long time. For us as a brand that's important because we are in clothing and there is a decent amount of waste and we try not to be wasteful and we don't want to see whether it's clothing or plastic or whatever it is in landfills, for now, for our children, for our future. Buying quality pieces really, really can impact what we put in the landfill.

What are some specific things that our listeners can look for to know that something has been made in a responsible way and that is going to be long-lasting, et cetera?

Yeah. Shopping smaller, shopping locally, paying attention to the price point when something is 7.99 or $5 and it's almost like it's too good to be true then I think you really have to start thinking about who made this and what type of environment because it's just too cheap. That doesn't happen. You know, there's a cost for yardage. There's a cost for environmentally friendly ink. There's a cost to pay workers what they're supposed to be paid. When something is really too cheap, just think about it a couple of different ways and make sure that you really need it and want it.

“I just felt karma was on my side and I was going to go forward” 

In My Take you will learn:

Financial Grownup tip number one. It goes to that saying that you should give a lot of thought to how you name a brand as much as it is possible, choose something that can evolve and grow with the business. It's also important to look at how others may remember that brand name and on that note, I want to point out something that Charlotte said sort of in passing. She has the URLs for all the ways people might mess up the name of her company. Grabbing a few extra URLs when you're setting up a business or a side hustle is inexpensive and really easy to do. I own close to 30 URLs tied to my various projects and ideas and side hustles. You know what? The cost is really minimal.

Set them up so that if someone types in something close to your business, they still find you. Make it as easy as possible for potential clients and customers and of course also friends and family that you want to be able to find your projects and your businesses. Financial Grownup tip number two, don't fight who you become as you grow up and go through the seasons and the milestones of life. Maybe just highlight different parts of who you are at that time. Yes, you will change, but the essence of who you are will not. Just like Plum Pretty Sugar still reflects the same essential vibe as the earlier versions, the earlier iterations of the business. It's just evolving and growing as it expands. This show is free for you but as I hope you guys can tell, we do put a lot of time, energy, and yes, there's a financial cost into this show and to keep it free for you, we do need your support.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

www.PlumPrettySugar.com

Follow Charlotte!

• Instagram - @PlumPrettySugar

• Personal Instagram - @CharlotteJayneHale

• Facebook - @PlumPrettySugar

• Twitter - @PlumPrettySugar

• Pinterest - @PlumPrettySugar

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Part of being a grownup is learning to be thankful for what we have, and to give back. It all comes down to simple acts of kindness. We speak with, Natalie Silverstein,  the author of Simple Acts. The Busy Family’s Guide to Giving Back who shares specific ways even the busiest of grownups can give back to the community in ways that make all of our lives richer. 

4 Kindness Tips for Financial Grownups

• Ask what is needed- actually talk to the organization

  • If you want to help in your community, think about the things that you can do. If you’d like to help a particular organization, reach out to them to see exactly what it is that they could use help with.

• Use your skills

  • You don’t necessarily have to have a special skill to be able to help. It can even be as simple as helping an elderly person to learn how to use a computer, a phone, or write an email.

• Make it social

  • Doing a service project with friends or family can make things more fun for everyone. This also is a great time to bring your young children in to help. Children love to help!

• Tell other people and invite them to get involved

  • If you share with others about how they can do good things, they are often times very excited to learn more and to become involved themselves. Sometimes others just simply don’t know where or how they can help.

Episode Links:

Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

Natalie’s traditional Financial Grownup episode

www.DoingGoodTogether.org

www.SimpleActsGuide.com

Natalie’s book Simple Acts

Follow Natalie!

• Instagram - @simpleacts_guide

• Twitter - @simpleactsguide

• Facebook - @simpleacts_guide

  
  

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Linda Davis Taylor looked like she had it all, but wanted to make more money. An unexpected meeting with the man who became her mentor took her out of her comfort zone, and into a role that would catapult her into a field where she made her mark, and inspired others to follow in her footsteps.

In Linda's money story you will learn:

We are actually the first investment advisory firm that was founded in the country, believe it or not, in 1915. Company's roots go back in this community over 100 years which makes it so much fun to work now with families who are in their fourth generation. We can see the 90 year olds, the 60 year olds, the 40 year olds and the 10 year olds in one meeting and it's just really rewarding to be in such a great community.

And community is really important. In fact a member of your community at the college you were working at 25 years ago is the focus of the money story that you are going to tell us, and it started with an appointment that was really you thought about his future, but it turned out to be about your future. Tell us your money story, Linda.

That's exactly right. This great gentleman who I knew a little bit then who became a lifelong mentor. I'll tell you more later, came into my office I thought to talk about the fact that he was retiring from his firm, and he looked me in the eye and he said, "I'm here because I want to change your trajectory and I want you to come and take over the leadership role in my firm," which was an investment firm which now is Clifford Swan.

Wow, and what were you doing? Explain more about what you were doing at the time and what your mindset was, because you weren't looking to make a change.

No. In fact I said to him, "Mr. Swan, I barely know the difference between a stock and the bond. How would I ever become a leader in the investment firm?"

I was in the higher ed environment, I'd been there for 25 years. I was a college admissions dean, I worked with all kinds of young kids going to college then I moved into philanthropy. I was working at this awesome women's college, where his wife was a graduate, and I was talking to women about philanthropy, which of course is connected with money, but in no way did I have the aspiration to think that I could make a switch from education to finance, and that's what he came in my office to talk to me about.

Was it a question of self-doubt, imposter syndrome? Talk about the gears in your mind at that point? What were you thinking?

I was in a field that I thought was predictable and appropriate for me, but what I realized is that I really wanted to make more money, and he was the person who made me think, "That's great. That's not only okay, that's terrific, and it's great to have an aspiration about money if you're a woman."

How much of your feeling that you wanted to make more money were you holding back, you think, because you were a woman? Were you still tied to the often self-imposed rules that we put on ourselves?

I was the daughter of an entrepreneur, but I was told at that phase and that part of the country it's fine for you to be in education or maybe be a nurse, but you can't go into the family business because that's not what girls do.

Wow. Okay, so what clicked in your mind that you said, "You know what? Maybe I am going to do this."

I thought to myself, "If I don't go out of this office and follow this incredible opportunity ... This man has literally climbed into my office and said, 'How about do this?' If I don't do this now, I don't know if I'll have that opportunity again."

So I knew it was a leap that I needed to take and it was just the universe giving me what I needed to make me take that step.

All right, so what happened? You just quit and left and started ...? What was it like starting?

It was very challenging because I did not have on paper the skills to do that job, so I entered then the financial world, mostly men, they thought, "What is this woman from a college doing here?" So it took me a lot of determination but also his support to be able to make that successful transition.

Having that male mentor, this goes ... I mean, we talk about a lot the importance of men to get women and help women to achieve what they can achieve. But it's not just for women, men play a very important role in this, and the fact that he had the faith in you and pushed you to do what you were capable of I think is important to note.

Absolutely, and probably true in many fields. At the time, this was 20 years ago, it was absolutely true in the field of finance that without a male successful financial entrepreneur, I don't think it could've happened and someone as determined, as passionate as this particular man who became my champion in that transition.

What I now know is that 20 years later, I see myself as a financial mentor, particularly to young women, but he was that to me, every week. And he retired from the firm after six months and he was not there day-to-day, but every week for the next 20 years we had breakfast and what he was doing gradually, over time, is teaching me, teaching me not so much how to be a CEO, but teaching me what it really means to have competence and confidence about money and to be aspirational about it, and I realized that a mentoring is not about one or two meetings, but it's about long-term really being consistent and building in that kind of, again, competence and confidence.

He passed away about a year ago. I miss him every day, but when I think about him I think of this Mark Twain quote that's very simple, and it said, "Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambition, because small people always do that. The really great make you feel that you too can be great."

And I think we all need that. I think a lot of women need that. He did that for me, made me feel competent and confident about having those kind of aspirations, and my dreams and my ideas and my talents were really on target. I just needed to take it up and do it. So he became a lifelong mentor and now I think it's my turn to do that in whatever way I can.

“I was in a field that I thought was predictable and appropriate for me but what I realized was that I wanted to make more money”

In Linda’s money lesson you will learn:

Find a financial mentor. You just have to find one. I think it's still very, very hard, particularly for women, to understand what their own fears or lack of confidence or what they feel about money. The financial industry does not make it easy to understand it, and that financial mentor, not just a mentor in general but someone who we can really be honest with and can tell us things like Mr. Swan did, don't have a lot of debt. The moment you get out of debt is when you really start being financially secure. Things about being careful with your spending, all of these things over time, find a financial mentor.

“I knew it was a leap that I needed to take and it was just the universe giving me what I needed to make me take that step” 

In Linda's everyday money tip you will learn:

So my big one is, don't purchase any snacks on the go when you're thinking about those snacks, those extra drinks. It just adds unneeded calories frankly, and it wastes money, so no snacks on the go.

Very well said. Could you give some examples of the temptations that you pass up on? Was there anything that happened that changed your mind that you had an aha moment about this, or have you always been this way?

In the morning before your commute it's tempting to go buy coffee, tea or snack of your choice. When you're in an airport, walk on by, don't get that stuff and take it on the plane. When it's late at night in a hotel, stay out of the minibar, no potato chips, no chocolate chip cookies. Those are the things that tempt me and I just have to say, "No, I don't need it. It's going to be five extra dollars on my bill and 500 extra calories."

“Mentoring is not about one or two meetings. It is about long term really being consistent and building in .. competence and confidence.”

In My Take you will learn:

Here we go. Financial Grownup tip number one: Find mentors early and often. For Linda, she had one that made a huge difference. That doesn't always happen. For most of us it may be several in different stages of our careers and for different purposes.

When I wrote How to be a Financial Grownup, I went on what I now call my mentor-ter, asking successful people that I admire to just meet with me and talk about themselves. The information that I learned was life-changing and it became the foundation for my book and now this podcast.

Financial Grownup tip number two: Linda's everyday money tip is one of my favorites ever because so many of us, and yeah, I'm looking in the mirror, so many of us cave to those little treats especially when we are traveling. So here's one thing that I've learned to do that at least cuts off one major super unnecessary tip and that is, if you're traveling and you're buying food somewhere, you don't necessarily need to buy that bottle of water. If you're buying something else, it's a little weird if you go up if you're not buying anything else, but if you're already buying food, it's kind of okay to go up to the counter and say, "Oh, can I just get a cup with ice and water?"

Most of the time they're pretty happy to give it to you, and especially if you have a kid with you, forget it, they will definitely do it. So try it. You'll usually save five bucks on a bottle of water that is so unnecessary to pay for.

Episode Links:

• One of my favorite apps: Blinkist - Summarizes books to just 15 minutes. In fact you can even listen to one minute chunks at a time. They call these blinks. Try it out for FREE here.

• www.CliffordSwan.com

• Linda’s book The Business of Family: How to Stay Rich for Generations

• Check out Linda's website - www.LindaDavisTaylor.com

• Follow Linda!

  • LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Author and workplace strategist Lindsey Pollack shares a negotiation story with a big twist and a surprise ending. Plus how we often fail ourselves in negotiations by not using simple techniques when putting together deals, and how we can learn to up our game. 

In Lindsey's money story you will learn:

So my money story goes back to before I wrote all those books and had the lovely credentials that you shared. About 10 years ago, I was speaking on college campuses to students about getting jobs and I really wanted to elevate my business to the next level. And so I wanted to connect with a large brand that would help me raise my image and get into the corporate market.

And through a connection of a connection of a connection, I ended up having the opportunity to pitch a major social network. And my pitch to them was that I wanted to run a series of webinars to campus career centers to teach them how to use this social network and get their students to use it for their career success. You can probably guess which network it was.

And I had no platform. I had no reputation. I had nothing to offer. And so what I did -

Let me just ask you, how had you even been connected to them?

I was so set on a couple of different companies wanting to work with that I asked everyone that I knew, "Hey, do you know anyone at this company?" And it took one full year, Bobbi and finally, a friend of a friend worked out in Silicon Valley and said, "I know someone there, I'm willing to make an introduction." So I asked until I finally got a yes.

So you had already invested quite a bit of time and energy in this and a lot of tenacity. Okay. So now you get your moment, keep going.

Okay. So I got my moment and I wrote up a huge fancy proposal that I was really proud of and I thought, "How am I going to price this?" They don't know me. I did not want to do it for free. And so what I did, was I came up with two tiers. I came up with the tier that was a very, very low investment for this company to pay me to start this webinar and run it.

And then I came up with a really, really high number and said, "If I can train 5000 people in two months. If 5000 people signed up to take this webinar in two months, you'll pay me this number." And they agreed to it because they basically had nothing to lose because the first number was really small.

Well I mean you've transferred all of the risk. You're taking on all the risk if the project were to not go well. They basically don't have much at stake. The payment from them would be so small. But of course, you are getting huge reward if it goes well which of course I know it does. But keep going.

It went well. I did everything humanly possible to get 5000 people to sign up for those webinars. And I do want to give credit that I had a very warm introduction. So I think that network and connection really helped. But I worked like crazy to get those people to sign up. I made the number. And the best part of the story is that I continued to work with that company for six more years. So I think by proving myself at the beginning, I was able to start the relationship off right and it truly was a game-changer for my business.

In Lindsey’s money lesson you will learn:

I think there are two lessons. One is to be really clear on what you want and if you get the introduction you want or if you get the opportunity you want, how are you going to turn it into something big. I think a lot of people say they want success or they want to write a book or they want to get their script produced. But once you have the opportunity in front of you, what are you going to do to make sure that you get a yes. And I can't say I knew at the time that this would be such a lesson but it was so empowering to know that I was willing to put everything on the table and work tenaciously, as you said, to get it. So know what you want and really think about how you can get the other side to say yes. Even if it means that you have to put some risk on the table.

You also mentioned the term a warm introduction. Can you talk more about how that came about, how that comes about, how people can get that more, and the importance of the kind introduction that you get? The nuance there.

Absolutely. And Bobbi, you are such a good practitioner of this generously making introductions for people you know and trust. I think that it's really easy to connect with someone today, whether it's on a social network, whether it's sending an email, finding somebody's phone number. That's easy. What's harder is standing out from the crowd. And I think the way to do that is when you have a person, a human being, who knows and trusts you who always knows and is trusted by the person you want to meet.

So I don't think it was just me and my proposal that got that company to say yes. I think it was the fact that someone who they trusted and vouched for me was able to make that introduction. You know we live in a world of a lot of connections but that true trusted connection, I think is more valuable than ever. That to me is a warm connection.

In Lindsey's everyday money tip you will learn:

I am laughing that my money story is about how great of a negotiator I am because it took me so long to learn how to improve my negotiation skills and my best negotiation tip is silence.

So why? We let there be a moment of silence there so everyone could think about that.

Silence is really uncomfortable. And I'm so glad you let that moment linger because it shows how much anyone wants to desperately make that silence go away. And so what I used to do, when I first started out as a speaker or as an author, was say something like, "Bobbi, the price of my speech is $1000." And if there was a nanosecond of silence, I would say, "But if you only want to pay 750 that's okay." Because I was so uncomfortable with the silence.

So letting a number sit there. Asking somebody, even if you're on the phone with your mobile phone provider saying, "Is that the best you can do? Can you offer me a different rate?" We jump in too quickly and say, "Or not, that's okay. Forget it." Letting that silence linger is so hard and has been a huge challenge for me but it is my best money tip to not talk myself down or lose an opportunity to get a better price because I'm not willing to sit with silence.

Can you recall any time that was super effective using that technique? Can you give us an example?

Oh, everyday when I'm negotiating for my business. As I've gotten more successful as a speaker, I've raised my prices. And probably the hardest one to do is to raise a price on an existing valued client. But over time, it's really a necessity to grow your business.

I had to say to someone just the other day, "I've raised my prices by 15%. I know that we've always been at X number. The new number is this." And I so wanted to say, "But if you don't want to pay that's okay." Or, "I know that might be challenging." But I just said it, I let it sit there and the person said, "Okay."

In My Take you will learn:

Financial Grownup Tip number one: Lindsey talked about warm introductions and I could not agree more. But how do you get started? Well the most important thing is to reach out and ask people in your industry or even just friends and family and just casual conversation to tell you more about what they're working on, what their goals are, and lead into how you might be able to help them. Don't be overly aggressive. But be creative. Are there things that you could do? And then follow up. And this is the most important thing. Don't ask them for anything in return.

The crazy thing that I have found is that the people that have come forward on my behalf and made introductions for me, aren't always the ones that I have helped. It's not always linear. In fact, it rarely is. Very often the people helping me are people that aren't necessarily in my closest circles. They're people that I've met through my life that I've stayed in touch with. Maybe a quick email every six months, a quick coffee date once or twice a year. That kind of thing. And just being in touch with them and being considerate of what they're going through and what their needs are, maybe they'll think of you when an opportunity that's appropriate for you comes about. Or maybe they'll be there for you if you want an introduction to someone that they know. Be patient. If you give, you will receive.

Financial Grownup Tip number two: Lindsey's book is so full of great tips for us. She shared a couple, but I wanted to give a little bit more. So here are some other tips from Lindsey.

First of all, if you can work up the courage and feel comfortable and if you don't then get comfortable, do this, work up to this. Ask your boss to CC you on emails even when you don't need to be directly involved. It's going to give you insights into things that are going on in your company beyond your immediate duties, give you a wider perspective.

Lindsey also suggests sending video emails on occasion instead of writing out what you want to say. Just film a quick video and attach it to an email. It can be very effective.

One more final tip: Remix your meetings. Just try sitting in different seats than you usually do and that could actually change the group dynamic and maybe the group think. Come up with some different ideas or just give you a little more energy in your day.

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Check out Lindsey's website - www.LindseyPollak.com

• Lindsey's new book The Remix

Follow Lindsey!

• Instagram - @LindseyPollak

• Facebook - @LindseyPollakAuthor

• Twitter - @LindseyPollak

• LinkedIn - @LindseyPollak

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

The best new money books for Financial Grownups.

May 2019 Edition.

Once a month we feature a handful of books by authors that have appeared on the financial grownup podcast and share with you some of the reasons I chose to have the authors on the show. My promise is to be candid about how you can decide if the book is the best selection for your time and goals. For example,   Dig your Heels in by Joan Kuhl. While it has the most amazing strategies for staying in the corporate workforce, if you are in full startup mode or already feeling pretty solid in your entrepreneurial ventures, it maybe not the best investment of your reading time. 

Some ground rules:

There will be only positive comments. Because why waste your time telling you about something I don’t think is worth your time. 

Also - we limit our selections to books written by authors that appear on the podcast. In most cases they will have already appeared- so you can then go back and listen to their episode if you want to learn more. Occasionally, the episode will be in the future - so hopefully you will subscribe so you don’t miss it. 

Here are 3 books (+ a bonus book) I truly enjoyed in the past month!

Book #1

Let’s start with the one with one that is by Erin Lowry, whose brand “Broke Millennial’ no longer applies to her- and actually for those who follow her- never really did if we are being honest. She’s always been pretty money conscious. 

Here are three things I liked about her new book Broke Millennial takes on Investing. A beginner’s guide to leveling up your money. 

• There is no attitude. Erin takes ownership of the fact that her readers literally may know nothing about investing and will take her explanations down to the most basic level. The things we all pretend to know because we think we should. So for example, when she explains what asset allocation is, she uses the term risk tolerance but then takes the time to explain what that is. 

• She owns the fact that she is the writer- and not always the expert- so she seeks out experts including Jen Barrett from Acorns, Certified Financial Planner Doug Boneparth and Jill Schlesinger- the latter two have been on this podcast- and yes we’ll have links to them and their books in the shownotes as well.

• And finally- Erin gets personal about the financial grownup lessons she learned from her parents- and very specific. For example, her dad declared at age 24 that he wanted to be a millionaire by age 40. Did he? You probably guessed correctly but read the book to confirm.

Who should read this book:

Anyone who hears about investing and is curious but doesn’t know where to start, as well as beginners who want to get a better handle on what they are doing, and a little validation along the way.

Book #2. 

Dig Your Heels In. Navigate Corporate BS and Build the Company You Deserve by Joan Kuhl.

This is just what it sounds like- it’s about finding a way to stay in a corporate job when you really want to tell them to go to you know where. 

Here’s what I liked about it:

• Her strategist are specific and laid out for the reader- but there is also no bs that you have to do the work. For example, she talks about different ways to achieve goals. And is honest that you have to figure out who has the power to get you to that goal. But you have to do the work to seek out those people and find a way to get them to advocate for you. There are solutions here but no easy fix. She’s just being honest.

• There are some big revelations that I had no idea about- things like how opportunities and promotions are really decided behind closed doors that you think you know but you don’t. Like pre-gaming for reviews. Read the book. Joan has secrets.

• She did a lot of legwork and has interviewed an unbelievable number of high level women and men so there is propriety research in this book. Specific first person stories of how the most successful people make it work and yes, dig their heels in. 

Who should read this book?

I’m going to say both genders, but the truth is Kuhl is speaking primarily to women.. in large part because more women quit the corporate workforce in droves to deal with the demands of family- and these days they often start their own thing. But for women who would like to find a way to work things out, this is the best thing ever. As I said when Joan was on the podcast, I wish I had this book when I was at Thomson Reuters as a tv anchor and trying to balance my family life. 

Book #3:

An Economist Walks into a Brothel and other Unexpected Places to Understand Risk by economist Allison Schrager who is also with Quartz. 

Here’s what I liked about it:

• If we are being honest, the title. I mean- I love that Allison Schrager had the guts to just put it out there there is definitely a shock value to this book.  

• The fascinating different stories illustrating risk and reward in industries from surfing to paparazzi to the movie business.. and of course the brother. You learn economics- but you also learn a lot of behind the scenes dirt about these very cool niche businesses.

• The author has a real point of view. She takes a stand. For examples, Schrager gives us permission- and justification to NOT take risks that don’t make sense. “Taking more risk than necessary is inefficient.” 

Who is this book for?

People whose eyes glaze over when someone starts talking economics and risk. In a way- It’s for the nerds that haven’t yet come to terms with their nerdiness.. we’re turned off by insider jargon and boring explanations-  but secretly really do want to know all the data- just in a really fun and accessible way. This book is story telling at it’s finest. 

Bonus Book (because technically it is not a money book):

Travel Anywhere and Avoid Being a Tourist by financial grownup guest Pavia Rosati and her Fathom co-founder Jeralyn Gerba

The authors met as editors at Daily Candy and then later teamed up to launch the travel platform Fathom. It is an editorial website and so much more. You can find digital guides- as well as help planning your travel through their concierge service which I have personally used and loved when I went to Iceland.

Here’s what I liked about the book:

• I love it for all the reasons you should not read it on a kindle! This is just a beautiful book to just experience. Stunning photos and a beautiful layout and sharp focused writing. 

• There are actual money saving tips - like hostels where you feel like you are staying at a boutique hotel, and a nice little travel hacks section with tips like how much to invest in a top of the line suitcase, what to check on your data plan before you go and knowing your auto insurance coverage in advance. Doing these things can potentially save you a ton of money.

• The Digital Nomads chapter. Because although in theory we talk a lot about shutting off all the electronics when we travel, sometimes it’s just really nice not to be judged when we choose not to. Put another way- what if you get to travel because your work is portable- not everyone with a laptop on a beach is a slave to their job- it could be quite the opposite. 

Who is this book for:

People that already travel a lot and are looking for fresh perspectives, and those who want to travel but just don’t know where to get started.I personally can feel overwhelmed and so fearful of making a mistake that I can’t even get started.  And of course it’s great If you just want to look at beautiful pictures and learn about all the world has to offer- even if it’s not on your calendar in the immediate future. This book can just be for the love of relaxing with a special book. I’m not giving away my copy any time soon. 

Episode Links:

• Blinkist - The app I’m loving right now. Please use our link to support the show and get a free trial.

• Erin Lowry’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Broke Millennial takes on Investing

• Joan Kuhl’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Dig Your Heels In

• Allison Schrager’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of An Economist Walks into a Brothel

• Pavia Rosati’s Financial Grownup episode + Get your copy of Travel Anywhere and Avoid Being a Tourist

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

After a nasty split from his 11-year business partners at the Art of Charm podcast, Jordan Harbinger found himself putting his own networking lessons to work as he started a new business from scratch with the Jordan Harbinger show and the Advanced Human Dynamics  platform.

Jordan's money story:

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, so it was supposed to be an amicable split. I got sick of being the dating guy, because I'm pushing forty, and I'm married, and I'm in a healthy relationship, and I just wasn't interested in that anymore. And a lot of the shows that I was doing were interviews with athletes, and generals, and all these really high-profile people, and they were always shocked, like 'oh, this is what this podcast is about?'

Bobbi Rebell:
Well the show was evolving, with you.

Jordan Harbinger:
The show was evolving with me. And my business partners were not super happy about that, and so they decided that we were going to split, and then when they proposed a split, we all agreed on it, and then later on, they decided, 'actually, we're not going to give you anything,' because ... I think that they had ... well it's only one guy, really ... I think he had hoped that I wouldn't leave, because I was doing all of the stuff that they needed to do to generate revenue.

Jordan Harbinger:
And so, I think he really, kind of had a little bit of an ego melt-down.

Bobbi Rebell:
When you say they didn't give you, is this about money? That he didn't give you the money, the buy-out?

Jordan Harbinger:
Right, I still own a third of the company.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right.

Jordan Harbinger:
But I'm locked out of everything. So instead of fighting for that, I said, you know what? I'm just going to start over. So I started my show, social media, email list, website, all from scratch.

Bobbi Rebell:
For people that don't know, can you talk a little bit about those assets, the value, and how they're created and what it takes to rebuild it?

Jordan Harbinger:
Sure. So, I had, essentially, created social media, Twitter accounts, since 2008 or whatever. An email list that had over, at that point, hundreds of thousands of people on it. A website that was getting millions of visits per month, and shows that were getting millions of downloads per month. And then, when all that was locked, I just basically ... I mean I literally created a new account on Twitter, called friends and said, 'hey man, can you whip up a website?' Put an email collection plug-in, in there, that was from a friend, Noah Kagan over at sumo dot com.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh I love Noah Kagan, he's terrific.

Jordan Harbinger:
He's great. Yeah. And so, I started The Jordan Harbinger from episode one, after doing the other show for eleven years.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there a way to make people aware of this, other than, you're suddenly not on this show? And they're just being silent about it?

Jordan Harbinger:
No, there was no way for me to tell anyone. The listeners all had to come and look for me. And that's actually what happened.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where does this stand now? I mean, is there any recourse when this happens. Because people ... it's unusual, but it's sort of not.

Jordan Harbinger:
It's actually not that unusual, yeah. Now that I'm telling my split story everywhere, almost every successful entrepreneur is like, 'oh yeah, this happened to me a while ago,' or 'that happened to me a while ago, and I've never been happier.' It's really, really interesting to see. And, I've actually never been happier, myself, either. It's strange, you never realize how toxic environments are until you're out of them, because, it's that whole boiling frog thing, right? If they turn the temperature up by a notch every year, you're there for ten years, you don't realize you're on some sort of crazy funhouse ... funhouse is not the right word, a funhouse mirror-covered crazy-house, more like.

So when you get out of there, you go, 'oh! This is how normal people treat each other on teams, and this is how people celebrate wins together, and this is how people reinvest in a company.' Instead of causing stress, and blowing it. And so, it's actually just really, really been nice, for me, to pull the plug and start over. It's been rough, but it was absolutely worth it.

Bobbi Rebell:
There's a human element to this. So you lost ... your website, you lost your branding, you lost your email list in that. But, you've took humans with you. Tell us about that.

Jordan Harbinger:
When everything hit the fan and fell apart, what I did is I made a list of people I wanted to call, and the first ten or twelve phone calls that I made were to people I know would say yes to helping me. CEOs and other entrepreneurs, and people that were really, really great to me, in the past. And they said, 'yeah, we're going to help you!' So I had this massive support network. I went on over a hundred other podcasts this year, along, well over that, actually, at this point. And rebuilt the show up to millions of downloads a month, from zero, in February. And now it's better than ever.

And it's just been so strange, because, oh! I also took a lot of the team with me. Because when I left, a lot of the other team, that was at the old company, was like, 'well, we came to work with you, man.' So they all left. And I said, 'I can only pay you half of what you're worth for the next foreseeable future,' and they said that's fine. So that's what happened, and I've made them whole since, but that was a massive vote of confidence.

Because all of this qualified staff left the old company. They all bounced.

Bobbi Rebell:
Well they followed you, more than they left. They went to where they saw the opportunity, and that's human nature.

Jordan Harbinger:
Yeah, that's true. I mean, I still have my production team, my [inaudible 00:08:14] team, everything. Everybody came with me.

Bobbi Rebell:
And, probably, many of your listeners are gradually migrating over, if they have not already. And because you have adjusted your format, and constantly evolve it, that's probably expanding what your opportunity is, and they see that.

Jordan Harbinger:
Exactly. There's been a lot of people that have said, 'oh, I didn't even know about the old show.' And I'm like, that's good. That's what I like to hear. Because, I don't necessarily just want to bring the same crowd, from the last show. There's great listeners from the last one, but The Jordan Harbinger Show is just a much better interview. It's a much more interesting project for everyone involved, and I've done a lot of the things that we used to do in the old company, like try to run live events, and do all this, and do all that. And I've realized, I actually don't like doing it.

So, it's pretty fun to just be on my own.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you move past something like this? Or do you not? Do you just work it into your life, and use it as part of who you are now?

Jordan Harbinger:
You work it into your life and use it as a part of who you are now. And granted, look, this is ten months since this thing. The lawsuit is still in full swing. So, it's not exactly, something I'm going to forget about this year, or probably even next year. But, that's all fine and good, I mean, this is trial by fire in a lot of ways. And I've certainly been through worse with less resources. Losing a business is a problem, but it's not losing a kid, it's not losing a spouse.

In fact, I look at it this way ... this isn't just rationalization either ... when I look at this, I think, if the deal that I had signed with the old company, had actually been honored, I would have been forced to gradually disentangle with them, over the period of three years. I would have had to promote their stuff, their products, the low quality stuff that was coming out now, I would have had to promote on my new show.

Instead, since they didn't honor anything, I have no non-compete, I can do whatever I want, I can make money however I want to do it. I can do anything in any niche, they have no say in anything. I can run any ads that I want and I don't owe them anything. In fact, they owe me thirty-three percent of the company share value.

So, it really ended up being like, the dumbest thing they possibly could have done. And for me, it was really scary, and then it turned out to be the best possible thing that could have happened.

Jordan’s money lesson:

I'm here to tell you, dig the well before you get thirsty. Because, if you try, when this stuff all happens to you, to reach out to everyone, and you're going, 'hey, look, I'm having a really hard time,' some people will be understanding. But a lot of people will be like, 'we haven't spoken in two, or five years, or whatever it is. I don't know what you want me to do. Best of luck.' Right?

But, since I'd done such a job ... I won't say great job, but such A job ... building and maintaining network connections, giving value, offering people things that can help them, without the expectation of getting something in return, when I did need help, people were coming out of the woodwork.

I mean, it was just, people I didn't even know were like, 'hey, heard what happened. Let me know if you want to come on my show and tell the story.' 'Hey, can I write an article about this for Ink?'

Jordan's everyday money tip:

I see a lot of people doing things like, spending ninety minutes, round-trip, driving to this produce farm, because they get cheaper stuff. And look, maybe you like organic produce from that farm, that's fine. But I see a lot of people doing really silly things to save money. Little, I wouldn't say scams, because they don't elevate that far, but I'm going to move the car eighty-five times, instead of renting a parking spot in my building in San Francisco. I mean I see stuff like this.

And they're lucky to break even on the cost of parking tickets at the end of the month, let alone all the time they spent, getting up at 5 AM so they can move their car, or driving around for twenty minutes, and then going back to sleep. I mean it's ridiculous, right? Pathological in some people.

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh yes.

Jordan Harbinger:
But we like to focus on the big wins. And when I say that, what I mean is, the same people that will not rent the parking space in their building, in the city, so that they can park, and will drive around all day looking for parking spaces? These are the same people who will often keep credit card debt, so that their credit score takes a little bit of a ding, and then when they go to buy a house, they get a lower ... I should say higher ... interest rate, on that mortgage, and it ends up costing them sixty-eight thousand dollars. Right?

So we have to be really careful and focus on the big wins.

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Show up. Guys, we edit these podcasts, because, as you know, I really value your time. I want to keep them to around fifteen minutes. So, sometimes those edits are pretty severe. But we also edit out things, just to make the podcast better, not just for time. And in this case, we cut out a lot of Jordan coughing, and fighting to sound his best, for this interview.

Not that you would notice, he's a pro.

Jordan was battling a cold, and probably, at some level, exhaustion. He had just returned from a big speaking engagement, and was really not feeling well. But Jordan showed up. The man has done over one hundred podcasts promoting his new venture, not to mention, keeping to an aggressive appearance schedule, and other projects, building out his new business.

The guy shows up, and he works hard. No pity party, no year off, finding himself, blah blah blah. Jordan Harbinger works, and that is why his business is, and will continue to, grow, exponentially.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Did I ever tell you guys I was married in my 20s, and got a divorce? And believe me, I was the one that always said I did not believe in divorce. But it happened. The best thing I did, was give stuff up, because you know what? You can get it back, or you know what? You really don't need whatever stuff you're fighting over, in the end.

So if you have a split, business or personal, of course, fight for what is yours, to some degree. But eye on the prize. Be like Jordan and move on. Take the long road, and most of all, get to work building your new life, or your new business. Do not let your ex walk all over you, but don't get stuck fighting for some material item, or every last cent, so much so, that you get caught up in your past, and don't move forward.

Bobbi and Jordan also talk about:

• How Noah Kagan was instrumental in helping to get Jordan's business off the ground. To learn more about Noah, check out his website here - https://okdork.com/about/

Check out Jordan's website - www.jordanharbinger.com
Here is a link to his course we mentioned - https://www.jordanharbinger.com/course

Follow Jordan!

• Instagram

• Linked In

• Twitter

• Facebook

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Talesha Carter lost all the money she had at the rodeo with friends. Fortunately she was only 9 years old.  But the money lesson stayed with her and created a money focus that is helping her to serve others.

In Talesha's money story you will learn:

I loved it, yes. I grew up in a small town. Rodeos were a big deal. This particular rodeo was actually down in Salt Lake City area, so about an hour and a half away from where I grew up. This was like the big rigs.

Bobbi Rebell:
The big time.

Talesha Carter:
Yes. It was so much fun. I went there with my friend and her family.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you were how old?

Talesha Carter:
I was nine years old. I was a little wee one.

Bobbi Rebell:
So cool. Okay, so this is sort of a little bit of independence that you're getting, and your parents gave you, really, your first taste of financial independence, and spoiler alert, you failed spectacularly. Tell us exactly what happened. What did they do? They entrusted you. They said, "Okay, you're a big girl, you're nine years old, we're going to give you this responsibility." What happened?

Talesha Carter:
Yes! So they gave me the money. It was $50, and they told me, "Be very careful with this money. Please don't lose it. We're trusting you that you can be responsible with it." Years before they had started to teach me about saving money and spending money, so I had my little buckets and everything, so I had a pretty good concept. I'm the oldest child, so again they entrusted me that I could do well with it. I was so excited that they would let me have my own money, and therefore I got to have my own wallet to keep the fancy-pantsy money in.

Bobbi Rebell:
So you're all organized, you've got your money and your wallet, and what were you going to spend it on? What was this money for?

Talesha Carter:
Yes. Oh, anything I wanted. It could be food, it could be souvenirs, it could be little outings that we were going to do, because we were also going to be going to Lagoon, which is an amusement park here in Utah. So lots of good things that we were going to be able to use with it, and so I was there, and just having so much fun. I was obsessed with the broncos, and just being able to watch the cowboys there and watching the bull riding, all that. I just was so entranced by it, and had a lot of soda beforehand, and about midway through, I was a little kid. You don't have much bladder control.

So I'm like, "Okay, I've got to go to the bathroom." I remember having this distinct memory of, "Oh, I have to take my money with me. I can't just leave my wallet here on the fence." Then the next thought was, "Oh, I'd better take it with me, because my parents said, 'Always keep your money with you. Don't lose your money.'"

Bobbi Rebell:
So you were being financially responsible.

Talesha Carter:
That's what I thought, yes. As a nine year old. So my friend and I, we went and found the bathroom, and I remembered, I didn't want to put it on the gross dirty floor, so I put it on the back of the toilet seat. I went to the bathroom, came out, washed my hands and everything, and I left it there on the toilet seat. Completely forgot that it was even there. Came back to our seats, we were enjoying the rodeo, and then I just had that sinking pit in my stomach of, "Oh my gosh, where is my wallet?" You know, as a grown up woman now, if you've ever left your purse somewhere and you have that moment of panic, that's what I felt as a nine year old, was that moment of, "Oh my gosh, I've got to go get my money. Where is my money? Where did I leave this money?"

And so we quickly went back to the bathroom, and of course, we went into every single stall, and nothing was there and no one had turned it in.

Bobbi Rebell:
Aw. You went to the lost and found?

Talesha Carter:
Yes. Yes, we did everything to try and find it, and you know, hopefully someone else enjoyed that $50.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's disappointing that somebody did not turn that in to lost and found. I mean, did you have your name on it, anything? As a nine year old, we tend to put name tags on our kids' stuff.

Talesha Carter:
Yes. Yes. You know, I'm sure I probably did, but I don't remember how that was. But I think one of the most disappointing things was that people could be dishonest. And that was a real big gut punch.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, because you left it there, and I get it. That's irresponsible.

Talesha Carter:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's a lesson when you're nine, but somebody also took it! And that's also a lesson, that if you don't pay attention to your money, someone might take it.

Talesha Carter:
Yes. So then from there I had to have that hard conversation and call my mom and dad, and tell them, "Hey, I'm really sorry, but I lost your money." I could hear their disappointment through the phone, but my parents are so amazing and incredible, and they just walked me through it. They said they were disappointed, but that they loved me and it was okay, and we could make that money back, and it wasn't earth-shattering, but I think for me the biggest thing is that nine year old was feeling that guilt that I had lost my parents' hard earned money, and then as well, feeling upset that someone would take it, and then me feeling like, "Oh my gosh, now I'm always going to lose my money."

So especially when I started my own business, that was where I started to see it come through a lot. I've always loved money, but that belief of, "Oh, I'm going to lose this money." So then I got really, I would hold onto it, and I almost created this scarcity mindset with money of, "If I don't keep it with me, or if I'm not tracking it 100% through my bank account, it's going to lose money," or some hacker is going to come on and take it.

So it made me almost shift into that scarcity greedy side of money, instead of just money flows to me easily, side of things.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. And negativity about money, that money is not something that can empower you, it's something that you have to kind of hoard and protect and keep because someone else might take it from you. And that can really weigh on you.

Talesha Carter:
Yeah. It was a huge, that was probably one of the biggest lessons in that, is that I had to be able to let go of that fear that money was against me instead of for me.

“I had to be able to  let go of that fear that money was against me instead of for me” 

In Talesha’s money lesson you will learn:

Yeah, so I had to really learn how to identify my money beliefs. One of the ways I like to do that, and what I teach my coaching clients, is to start to look at the money that they have right now, and ask themselves, how do they feel about it? Are you happy? Are you sad? Does this overwhelm you? Does it stress you out?

And then from there, write letters to your money. Identify what your money is trying to tell you.

Bobbi Rebell:
Do you actually write letters to your money?

Talesha Carter:
I do. I do, yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
What do you say in your letters to your money?

Talesha Carter:
When I was first starting out, it was, "Why do you always leave? Why is there never enough? Why do I feel like any time I make money, it just quickly leaves?" The bills, whatever it is that you have. And so it first started out very negatively, like, "I don't like you. Why do you always leave me?"

Then it has slowly shifted into, "You're pretty awesome. Thank you so much for showing up in my life. This is really cool that I made $100 today by helping out a person, and now I'm going to turn around and utilize this to help my family or another family." Just writing like I would write to my best friend.

“ I had to learn how to identify my money beliefs”

In Talesha's everyday money tip you will learn:

Talesha Carter:
A lot of times we do things electronically, and so I like to cash my money, and put it into cash. And then I carry $100 worth of cash with me, and it's in the range from $2 bills all the way up to $100 bills. From there, I look at it every single day, and I'll say, "Thank you for showing up in my life. How can I help serve another person with this money?"

Bobbi Rebell:
So gratitude.

Talesha Carter:
Yes. So much gratitude.

“People could be dishonest and that was a real gut punch” 

Financial grownup tip number one:

Look out for your friends' money and possessions. It would be obvious for me to say, "Keep tabs on your own stuff when you are out and about." That goes without saying. But I'm going to share a story, and I still feel sick to my stomach about it.

I was in London with a friend in college, we were at a restaurant. She went to the ladies' room, and I did not realize it, but she had left her bag somewhere. Maybe it was on the floor, the back of the chair, I wasn't really paying attention.

She hadn't said anything, but I was at the table, and her bag was somewhere. The thing is, I wasn't paying attention. And when she returned, she didn't notice anything either. But when we went to pay the bill, we noticed the bag had disappeared.

I still feel bad. Someone obviously came by and swiped it while she was away, or maybe it was when we were just talking, who knows? The point is, we weren't paying attention. We need to have each others' backs.

Financial grownup tip number two:

You probably won't get a do-over, so come up with a do-next. What are you going to do next time, after something goes wrong.

I want you guys to give it some thought, and when you have time, please DM me and let me know how you have come back from doing something cringe worthy with your money, like leaving your wallet in the bathroom. Because as I said at the top of the show, we all have those moments that we wish we could get a do-over on.

Heads up, everyone. Financial grownups pay attention to the news and learn from it. Here is your shortcut.

Episode/Other Links:

• Talesha's 1-on-1 coaching

• Talesha's Facebook Group- Foster Vitality: Energy Connection

Check out Talesha's website -

www.FosterVitality.com

Follow Talesha!

• Instagram - @FosterVitality

• Facebook - @FosterVitality

• YouTube

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Broke Millennial’s Erin Lowry joins Bobbi with 3 specific things you can do today to upgrade your investing strategy, along with her take on how to be a successful investor.  For example: How much should you be paying for your investments? How long should you set it and forget it- when do you check in on your investments? What is an investment audit? Are all index funds the same? Plus a preview of her new book “Broke Millennial Takes on Investing’ . How to tell if your goals are in line with the investment choices you are making? And what to do if you don’t understand an investment term but don’t want to ask. 

Here are the 3 things you must know about actionable investing tips

• Increase contributions in small increments

• Pay attention to expense ratios- they matter so much

• write down goals and check in once a year

Episode Links:

• Erin's new book Broke Millennial Takes On Investing: A Beginner's Guide to Leveling Up Your Money

• Erin's first book Broke Millennial: Stop Scraping By and Get Your Financial Life Together

• Jill Schlesinger's Financial Grownup episode

Check out Erin's website -

www.BrokeMillennial.com

Follow Erin!

• Instagram - @BrokeMillennialBlog

• Pinterest - @BrokeMillennial

• Twitter - @BrokeMillennial

• Facebook - @BrokeMillennial

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Quilt co-founder Ashley Sumner faced a totally unexpected and massive tuition bill mid-way through college after her dad’s business took a hit in the recession. The skills she learned in rising to the challenge led her first to a matchmaking business, and later to create  Quilt- a tech platform that connects female entrepreneurs online and in person.  

In Ashley's money story you will learn:

It's definitely not the lesson I thought I was going to be learning during those formative years. I can say that I'm very grateful for my upbringing, my family worked very hard, were entrepreneurs and we had a very financially stable life. My father, who had financially supported me my entire life, while I was the middle way going through school at NYU, which is arguably one of the most expensive private schools in the country, went from being a multimillionaire and extremely wealthy man to basically losing everything.

Bobbi Rebell:
What, just quickly, what had happened? Was he in an industry that changed?

Ashley Sumner:
Yeah, he's a land developer. He's an interest, he has a fascinating story, he kind of grew up with nothing, ran away from home, built up his entire career, learned this real estate trade and land development, moved west, one of the kind of first guys to go out and build land and I think during the financial crash while I was at school in 2008 everything changed and it really wasn't kind of prepared for it. He's actually since rebuilt himself up so his story is a fascinating one financially as well. But it was definitely-

Bobbi Rebell:
So you went to college with basically the understanding that you were not focused on financing your own college, it was going to be paid for, but I take it there wasn't actual money in an account that was separated?

Ashley Sumner:
Yeah, exactly. He was going to pay for the entirety of it, that was a huge part of my decision actually to go and be a musical theater major, because everybody knows you don't really graduate diving into a six figure salary and yeah that was a huge shift that took place a couple of years in, right while I was gearing up to start auditioning.

Bobbi Rebell:
So what was the talk like? What happened, did you just get a phone call one day that, "Honey, the money that was set aside for your college I need to use to rebuild my business." Or was it a gradual process, what was it like?

Ashley Sumner:
It was kind of an ongoing conversation, I mean I saw him struggle quite a bit and I've always been grateful for his capacity to show up and financially support me, throughout all of my dreams and very precocious childhood, lots of very big dreams to move to New York City from this small town. It was something that had been happening year over year and he really did try to continue to show up and support me and it was really more towards the end when I was graduating and trying to finalize my final year and where I was going to live and what I was going to start doing that we kind of came to an understanding that it was time. And I had this weird kind of desire to also ... I knew that it was time to learn, learn how to take care of myself, it was terrifying.

Ashley Sumner:
But I also knew that it was one of those things that I just trusted was going to really teach me some of the foundational things that I needed to know that I honestly beleive are the reason why I'm here today as a founder and I've been able to raise money and do some of the things that I'm so grateful to be able to do.

Bobbi Rebell:
One of the things I love is the next part of the story which is rather than just getting a job, you started a business.

Ashley Sumner:
I did. Yeah, I am definitely scrappy and the daughter of entrepreneurs, I can say that. I figured out that I had a knack in sales but not just any sales, in the space of matchmaking, so I had started, I had a start up in the matchmaking space and ultimately went on to have my own with some partners. And yeah it was just a skill that I had, you needed very little to get started outside of an ability to meet with and connect with people and listen to their needs and provide that value and that's very much the beginning of my community development career which has led me to my passion and purpose in helping others connect.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because like, and we're going to go back and talk more about Quilt, but it does make sense because you're matchmaking. Instead of romantic matchmaking you're actually matchmaking for different kinds of relationships. I do want to just touch on the fact that while you were doing this, first working for somebody but then very much an entrepreneurial venture, you still kept auditioning and I think that's really inspiring because it shows people that you don't have to give up one dream to fund the other dream.

Ashley Sumner:
Absolutely.

Bobbi Rebell:
You were able to do both.

Ashley Sumner:
Yeah, you know we're in the hyphen-hyphen-hyphen and I've been very proud of the multitude, I think, of starting off as soft skills and now hard skills that I've always had, an ability, I think, to architect. We can architect the way we want our lives to be and we don't need to kind of follow any traditional step by step or climbing a ladder and I'm grateful that my parents taught me that.

“We can architect the way we want our lives to be, and we don’t need to follow any traditional step by step or climbing the ladder”

In Ashley’s money lesson you will learn:

I think so much of having debt which I was under the weight of until six months ago is the head trash that comes along with it. I think there's a lot of shame and judgment and guilt around having that and seeing that there and there really are a lot of, I don't need to bore you with all of the ways that are out there, the practical ways that you can kind of chip off and get above water and start to breathe again. But I think kind of the mental game that it can play on you if you don't learn how to let go and understand that it's just a day by day, month by month, year by year planning, that's kind of my tip which is don't make it worse by also being so hard on yourself.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think a lot of us, not only judge other people, but judge ourselves too harshly.

Ashley Sumner:
Yeah, absolutely, I am my harshest critic. I was very ashamed to even share it with anyone, I kind of felt a little bit like an imposter or a fraud in having it. But every time I looked at it my refrain was like, "Those choices helped me get to where I am today and I'm so happy where I am today." So otherwise, who knows if I hadn't take that risk if it wouldn’t have led to now?

“It was empowering to understand how resourceful I am and how I could come up with non-traditional ways of making money”

In Ashley's everyday money tip you will learn:

Yeah, you know I have to give our head of product kudos for this, who teaches me all of those like tech savvy things. But I recently moved and I've recently learned about the abandoned cart method, when you're buying certain things online, just like leave it in the cart, walk away, go have a bit, go for a workout and then you come back and there's a miraculous little discount code hanging out in your inbox. So I think I've saved about $500 in the past few days on all of the new items that are on it's way to my home.

Financial Grown Up tip number one:

Ashley talked about the shame of debt. The reality is that debt can be a way to accomplish goals, so if you have debt for a good reason, and I'm not talking about excessive shopping sprees and all that stereotypical stuff, but I'm talking about good stuff. In her case paying for a great college education, as Ashley says, get rid of the mental trash, do not be ashamed, if it's your thing to talk about it externally, to socialize it, to talk to people about it because for some people accountability can really motivate you to pay it off faster or to figure out the right plan for you. But it's also okay to be something that you don't talk about, it doesn't have to be everyone's business, not everything about your finances for sure needs to be public, it's okay to keep it private.

Financial Grown Up tip number two:

Be sensitive and aware of what is happening financially to your parents, as is appropriate, at the appropriate age, however you define it and also of course to other members of your family, your generation and other generations. Ashley was so gracious in speaking about her fathers experiences, wealth is not always consistent, we'd like it to be, we can do things in our control to create financial stability but sometimes well a recession hits, as happened. Or an investment just doesn't perform as you had hoped and has all the research and how all the research had implied it would work. Or a business is simply struggling, things go through cycles, life is messy as they say. If your parents or members of your family can help you, maybe it's grandparents, maybe it's aunts, uncles, siblings, whatever, say thank you. But for the times that they can't, be there for them in the way that makes sense for your family.

Episode Links:

Melanie Lockhart's Financial Grownup episode

Lola conference

Check out Ashley's website -

www.WeAreQuilt.com

Follow Ashley!

• Instagram - @WeAreQuilt

• Twitter - @WeAreQuilt

• Facebook - @WeAreQuilt

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Traveling like a grownup can be overwhelming. Pavia Rosati had the world class intel everyone wanted.  But she and her Fathom co-founder thought they needed a business savvy partner. Except they never found Mr/Ms. right. So they stepped up their game and did it themselves. 

In Pavia's money story you will learn:

“You need to think about time as money when you travel. You don’t have an unlimited time budget and so make sure you are spending your time as wisely as possible.”

That's right. When we started this business about nine years ago, we didn't really have the money locked up tight. We didn't have a full proof business plan. We had ideas for how to make money, but we had the vision and we had the drive, and at a certain point, we stopped talking about it and we're like, okay, we're just going to do it. In hindsight, it would have been better if we had also had somebody who was kind of the money yin to our content and experience yang.

Bobbi Rebell:
Was there any business plan? Any revenue projection plan?

Pavia Rosati:
There were. There were. We didn't think about this at all. Digital media is, it's a moving target right now right. We had plans for where the money would come from, but when the industry changes, and the ad market changes, and people's online behaviors change, you need to be able to adjust your business models accordingly.

Bobbi Rebell:
What happened specifically? What was your original plan, and then what happened?

Pavia Rosati:
The original plan, we actually did have somebody who was going to come on board as the business partner. At the end, she said, you know what, I just can't take the risk. I don't have the entrepreneurial courage that it takes to go out and do this. What's funny, when you launch a business, it's like dating. Everybody has you, oh, you should talk to this person. Oh, you should talk to that person. I swear, in the first year of the business, I had coffee with someone else, and someone new.

We ultimately made the decision of, you know what, if the alternative is not to do this, or to wait until we find the right person, the moment might be too late, so let's just do this and get this out there, and then see where we end up.

Bobbi Rebell:
What happened? You didn't have a business partner. What actually happened in terms of the business part of Fathom.

Pavia Rosati:
The business part of Fathom is [Gerilyn 00:05:13] and myself doing the business. It means that we're the ones who hustle for the deals. It means that we're the ones who close these deals. It means that we've discovered our inner sales people, and we've been able to do it because we've been able to stay afloat, and we've been able to keep doing this. But, the question is, had we had somebody who was a serious, serious business person, where could we have been, and how much more could we have done, and how much more money would we have made?

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. Can you think of any examples where you felt the real lack of that?

Pavia Rosati:
There was a project that we were pitching that we were very excited about working on. The person that I was negotiating with said, here's my budget. I said, hmm. Yeah, I was thinking three times that. I thought, oh God, this is when it all falls apart. Instead, he came back and he said, okay, that's fine. That was a great, very lucrative project for us.

One of the times when it really would have been helpful to have some money and some business muscle behind us was a few years ago when we launched these fantastic honeymoon guides to Italy. I love the fact that we cover the whole world. The question we get again and again from people who are seasoned travelers, or people who never travel, is help me figure out my trip to Italy. So we came up with these fantastic itineraries, three days, in Florence, Venice, Rome, and the Amalfi Coast. Think of it as a concierge in your pocket. These guides are amazing. Anybody who found them and downloaded them was like, Oh my God, this is perfect. One small guide and my whole trip is planned.

Had we had somebody, however, with a lot more marketing experience, we could have gotten the word out about these things out to the thousands and tens of thousands of travelers who would have wanted these for their summer vacations to Italy.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're doing the work but you're not getting the attention that you want. How have you solved that, or have you?

Pavia Rosati:
Finding an audience is the ongoing struggle that anybody who is creating content, is struggling with all the time. There is no perfect answer to this. Getting our great work to the people who need it and who are looking for the information, is the constant struggle that we face, but that we're also not alone in facing. I mean, the internet is wonderful because it gives you access to everything, but guess what, everything is too much. There's too much noise. We always say that we do everything we do at Fathom to really cut through the clutter. To instead of giving you everything, we give you a really tight edit so that it's not overwhelming. So that you can read one article, and base your Caribbean trip just on that one article.

In Pavia’s money lesson you will learn:

“Nothing makes me more sad than being in a foreign country and seeing everybody sitting at the table looking at their iPhones. ”

Even though you're driven to do something, imagine what will happen if you don't have a safety net. Works for your plan B, works for your plan C. Have all of that stuff figured out, take the time to do that and then dive in. You will end up on much more solid ground.

Bobbi Rebell:
Your safety net was relying on each other and figuring it out, and having the courage to act as your own advocate. As in the case when you just mentioned where you got triple what they wanted to pay, because you stood your ground.

Pavia Rosati:
Yes. Correct. Because we stood our ground. Listen, we've lost out on things also. It's not all, we've lost out on things because we are smaller. The challenge and the reality of the ad market place right now online is a lot of companies are just after millions and millions of eyeballs, and worried more about the numbers than the quality of what they're getting. We deliver on quality, but what we sometimes lose out on is quantity.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's something that I truly believe is evolving. I think we're seeing with a lot of, for example, the influencer market. People are moving away from, or at least paying more attention to, the micro-influencers, and paying less attention to or, maybe being more realistic, about these giant influencers. The stickiness is not always the same as a micro audience that might be interested in say a podcast, or a blog or whatever, that's very niche. I think there's a lot more interest in that because the value of quality and engagement. You probably have a very engaged audience.

Pavia Rosati:
We do. We have a very engaged audience. The only criticism we ever hear is, I wanted to go to fill in the blank on the most remote place on earth, and you don't have a full guide yet. Work faster.

In Pavia's everyday money tip you will learn:

“The internet is wonderful because it gives you access to everything but guess what? Everything is too much. There is too much noise.”

Correct. Of course my tip is going to be about money. You're absolutely right. You need to think of time as money when you travel. You don't have an unlimited time budget. So make sure that you're spending your time as wisely as possible. When it comes to money, there are really simple things that you can do before your trip to make sure that you have things taken care of. Number one, not every place you go is going to have the most reliable ATM machine that's working where you need it to work. So maybe, plan ahead and have some cash available, if you're traveling in a foreign currency, to get you through the first day or two, until you can get to an ATM or a bank where you can change money.

Similarly, plan your tips in advance. Have a couple of euros in your pocket. Have pesos in your pocket so that you don't have to be fumbling for change when you want to give a porter a tip, or worse, give someone a dollar bill, because there's nothing that's worse than handing someone a $3 tip, then they would have to go to the bank to change that? Terrible.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. We sometimes, in America, assume that everyone really wants dollars, and sometimes they don't.

Pavia Rosati:
That hasn't been the case since like 1960. I have to tell this to my Dad all the time. He's like, I'll leave $100. I'm like no papa, they don't want to have to go to the bank to change some money. No. Other things to think about in terms of time and money when you're traveling is, invest in the things that are going to make your trip better. Invest in really good suitcase, so that you're sure that your stuff arrive safely. When you are thinking about auto insurance, know before hand, what does your credit card cover, what doesn't it cover. When you're getting on a plane, know what your points are. Does your credit card give you access to lounges at the airports? If so, which one.

I keep a file in my contacts of every lounge of the airports that I go to that I know which I have access to, through my credit card.



Financial Grownup tip number one:

Sometimes, the perfect partner is really late. Pavia and her partner were searching for a business oriented partner to add, and they never found them. They had to step up and just do it themselves. It wasn't their plan, it wasn't their ideal, and it still may change if they find the right match. And yeah, things might have been better if they did find that match earlier, or not. But just like you have to live your life even if you haven't found the perfect, let's say, romantic partner. It's the same with business. You got to keep moving. The right business partner may have not been there for the startup phase, but maybe there's someone that's right for them now that the company is more mature. They're looking, but they want the right fit, and that's a good thing.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

If you are a workaholic, yes, I'm looking in the mirror. One chapter that I loved in the book, travel anywhere and avoid being a tourists, was about the coolest coworking spaces. Here's the things everyone. Work should not keep you from traveling. But that doesn't mean that everyone really, especially maybe you're an entrepreneur, you have your own business, or you have a job with a lot of responsibility. Maybe you really can't take the time off that you feel that you need, or that people outside are telling you that you need. Maybe it doesn't make sense to put up walls between work and life and to go on this unplugged vacation. Maybe, you're going to enjoy your vacation more if you can do let's say, three days of vacation, and one day in a coworking space in that foreign city, or that other city that's not where you work that you're going on vacation with. Maybe that's actually going to help you stay on top of things, enjoy things more, focus on the days that you are "on vacation", but you can do work occasionally in that city and remain tied to your business in a ways that gives you comfort. So that when you come home, you aren't in catch up mode, and also frankly, before you leave.

Episode Links:

Pavia's Book Travel Anywhere (And Avoid Being a Tourist)

Check out Pavia's website -

www.FathomAway.com

Follow Pavia!

• Instagram - @FathomWayToGo and @PaviaNYC

• Pinterest - @FathomWayToGo

• Twitter - @FathomWayToGo

• Facebook - @FathomWayToGo

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Money is powerful and while it can’t solve the world’s problems, how we invest and the strategic decisions we make can have a huge impact. Learn what you need to look for in an investment, the questions to ask, and the best ways to make sure your investments have the impact you want. 

7 ways to invest and make a positive impact

1. First you'll want to find out what you own

2. The importance of figuring out what you care about most impacting through your investments

3. Then check out the ratings for your current investments

4. Why you will want to become a shareholder activist

5. Why you want to consider banking with a community bank, a credit union, etc.

6. Why this is the most important thing to do - ask questions

7. And last, but definitely not least - Do something! Even with small amounts of money.

Episode Links:

https://investforbetter.org

https://www.tpi.org/about/people/ellen-remmer

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

A story pitch led economist Allison Schrager to conquer her own negotiating fears by learning from the economically savvy workers at a Nevada brothel. The experience led her to investigate the most compelling and successful approaches to negotiation, reducing risk and increasing the chances of success. 

“My new life philosophy is you should hear no at least 60% of the time and if not you haven’t asked for enough”

In Allison's money story you will learn:

Well, this is actually what brought me to the brothel initially. When I had a relationship with them is they called me wanting me to write about them and I was like, "I don't know about this." They were ... I'm like, "But, tell me about the industry" and they're like, "Well, you know. All the women are independent contractors and we have no set prices. They negotiate every transaction." I was like-

Bobbi Rebell:
These are the legal ones in Nevada?

Allison S.:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
To be clear.

Allison S.:
Yes. This is the legal brothels in Nevada. They're all 1099 employees. I was like, "Well, that's interesting. So, you're telling me, you've got women in their early 20s negotiating with men in their 60s over tens of thousands of dollars?" And they're like, "Why, yes. And it's interesting, no one's ever asked us about that before. You know, then a lot of them come here, not knowing their value so we train them so they know how to be better negotiators and ask for more."

Allison S.:
Now, this is something I struggle with. I'm terrible at negotiating. Nothing freaks me out more and fills me with more anxiety, or at least used to, than asking for money. I am just-

Bobbi Rebell:
Oh, I think all of us.

Allison S.:
All of us. I've always probably been underpaid for this reason. Off I went to Nevada and I spent about a week and a half there learning negotiation skills and it changed my life. Particularly, Dennis Hof when he was alive, was there. He told me something about negotiation that just really changed my outlook for money and for everything, which is you have to get comfortable with "No" because you have to hear "No" more than you hear "Yes" because that's how you know you're asking for enough.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that's really smart. What's interesting that these women that are in the legal part of the industry do get triple, I think what the ones that are outside of the legal. There's a reason for that is because they're paying to lower their risk, which I think is fascinating.

Allison S.:
Yeah. Just like any market, you pay for safety. Brothel customers pay this 300% markup for transaction that affectively their "No's" going to have no consequence. They're not going to get arrested. No one's going to blackmail them. She's not going to be on the news. They know if she's been screened for diseases. If a customer want ... men and women want that kind of service, then there's somewhere they can go and know they can get at risk-free but they have to pay for it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you take those lessons and actually use them in your own life?

Allison S.:
Oh, yeah. Especially one. I learned how to asked for more and feel comfortable hearing "No." My new life philosophy is you should hear "No's" at least 60% of the time and if not, you haven't asked for enough. Also, I also learned these techniques of how to feel more comfortable hearing "No" because it's like a risk, like anything. And that, if you go into a negotiation, it's a risk. It could blow up and you'll destroy your relationship. This is a big concern. The two people negotiating in a brothel, they're about to do something very intimate but they have to argue about money before. It's sort of like your job negotiation on steroids, in terms of tension.

Allison S.:
What they do is they do something you do in finance too, which is there's a lot of hedging. There's a lot of maintaining some sort of form of liquidity, which is you don't just say ... Salary negotiation like, "Double my salary or I'm going to quit." You're just like, "Well, hey. I would like this much more money but if that's not realistic, I could take more vacation days." What you do is you offer this menu of options, which promotes flexibility for both sides and that increases the odds you're going to have a more successful transaction.

Bobbi Rebell:
How did you ... When you then ... Are there specific ways that you then implemented these negotiations strategies in your life since then?

Allison S.:
Oh, yeah. I'm now very comfortable hearing "No." Certainly in terms of writing the book and asking for the resources I needed from both the publisher and from friends helping me promote it. I'm now very comfortable with making these ballsy asks I would've never done before.

Bobbi Rebell:
Can you give an example of one that you asked for that was success? And maybe one that wasn't successful.

Allison S.:
I think it's certainly in terms of asking corporations to do bulk sales. That was just something I would've never asked for before. Now I feel comfortable with it. But, sometimes more often than not, I am being told "No." It still stings a little but then I sort of tell myself, "You asked for enough because you heard no."

Bobbi Rebell:
That's a good thing to remember because ultimately, in other words, you want to hear "Yes" but if you hear a "Yes" right away, that in a way makes you feel, "Well, maybe I didn't ask for enough." I think that's something people need to keep in mind

“Nothing freaks me out and fills me with more anxiety,.. than asking for money”

In Allison’s money lesson you will learn:

I basically said it. It's okay to hear "No." The world doesn't end. It doesn't destroy your relationship. If you don't hear "No," you're not getting enough.

Bobbi Rebell:
How do you recover from the "No?"

Allison S.:
Well, now as I said, it still stings. I sit there-

Bobbi Rebell:
But, can you just go back with your tail between your legs and be like, "Okay. I know you said no to that. Can you do this?" Or do you have to just walk? You just have to save face and be like, "Then I'm not going to do it."

Allison S.:
You come back with another alternative because most transactions aren't binary. It's not like you'll do this or it's not happened. There's maybe a third way. I become more of this school if you ask for the sun, maybe you'll get the moon.

Bobbi Rebell:
Right. Maybe when you originally approach a negotiation, you make sure to not make it binary and not create absolutes. So, that starts at the beginning is giving yourself a way to circle back if you don't get the answer that you want.

Allison S.:
Exactly. What they do in the brothel is customer's a little nervous and they'll lay out like, "Hey. What do you think that they'll do?" He'll be like, "I don't know. I've never been here" and they'll be like, "All right. Here's what I think I should do." They'll lay out this elaborate sexual plan. It involves going to the movies, and dinner, and it's 12 hours. The guy will be like, "That's amazing" and then they'll be like, "Great. That'll be $15000." Then he's like, "Whoa, no" and then they're like, "All right. Well, maybe we can take dinner off the table."

Allison S.:
What you do is you have this big hairy ask but then there's components to it and you take it apart so no one's really ever heard "No." But, you have this whole ... It's actually a menu of choices.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting. Any specifics that you think people could use when they are applying it to their own life?

Allison S.:
Yeah. I mean, if you're ... Like I said, if you're negotiating for your salary, as I said, it doesn't have to be all monetary compensation. You could talk about flexible hours. You can talk about more vacation days. Or, as I said, even if you're asking a friend for a favor like they're going to promote your book. You can ask them to email everyone in their company and they'll probably say "No" because that's a little ballsy but maybe they'll share it on Facebook and it's something.

“If you ask for the sun, maybe you will get the moon”

In Allison's everyday money tip you will learn:

Risk is the cost of getting what you want. You don't want to take anymore than necessary. Diversification has been proven in finance as it gets rid of unnecessary risks but not all risk. That doesn't just apply to financial markets. It could apply to anything. It could be if you're in a job doing gig or contract work on the side if possible. So, you have that option. It could be keeping your network fresh, so you have other options if that job doesn't work out or you want a new skill. Or, it could even be with dating. I actually re-read the rules when I was doing the book because I keep [inaudible 00:10:47]. I was like-

Bobbi Rebell:
Well, the book you're referring to is a book from years ago when two women wrote about these very harsh ... They sort of sound old fashion rules but they're almost playing hard to get, I guess. But, go on.

Allison S.:
Yeah. It's a much better book than you remember. But, one of their tips is don't be exclusive with someone until that you really know they're serious about you. I mean, they actually marry you but-

Bobbi Rebell:
Diversification then, in dating? Affectively. Yeah.

Allison S.:
It is and it really does bring out your best self. It really is efficient in some ways because it keeps you from getting invested in the wrong person. They could be a jerk and you don't know that yet because you don't really know who they are. It also makes you feel more desirable and attractive so really can be your best selves. Diversification really applies to anything.

Financial Grownup tip number one:

Think about the things you can do to increase your odds of success in a negotiation. Allison talks about creating a menu of options asking for the most first but offering the other party at least something that they can give you to make it a win at some level. Think about a wine list at a restaurant. A lot of people pick the second cheapest one for a reason. The restaurant knows this and in many cases, they can actually build in the biggest profit margin because they know that's where everyone's going to gravitate towards.

Financial Grownup tip number two:

Try to identify things you do that increase your risk. In the book, for example, Allison talks about how poker champions with stacks of money on the line have to factor in their irrational behavior as the stakes get higher. What do you do that is economically irrational? Shopping for food on an empty stomach. Yeah, that's me. Buying things because they're on sale. Me too. You get the idea. And let me know. DM me with your biggest irrational economic decisions. I would to hear and share with the community so we can all be a little bit more aware, and maybe we can come up with some ways to help.

Episode Links:

Allisons book An Economist Walks into a Brothel

Check out Allison's website -

www.AllisonSchrager.com

Follow Allison!

• Instagram - @AllisonSchrager

• Twitter - @AllisonSchrager

• Facebook - @Allison.Schrager

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

As a child, Joan Kuhl watched her single mom face severe financial discrimination. She shares the story of how this could have prevented the family from buying a home, and how it inspired her to become an advocate and mentor for women in the workplace. Plus money tips and  a preview of her new book “Dig Your Heels In”.

In Joan's money story you will learn:

• The important role her single mother played in her life

• The reason she felt like her mother was great role model

• Why her mother was charged more money for mortgage as a single parent

• The reason her mother believed it was important to know how to negotiate

“There are so many men that are coming to the table saying I believe my colleagues should be treated fairly and I want to be part of this new world where everyone has equal opportunity to go to a workplace that is fair.“

In Joan’s money lesson you will learn:

• Know what you deserve

"We’re never going to really achieve this inclusive culture in the workplace if we don’t dig our heels in and go after the things that we deserve"

In Joan's everyday money tip you will learn:

• How Joan's $200 cash rule can really help you to put your spending into perspective

"They were bragging to me telling me what their starting salary was. I used that to then tell people what I thought I deserved.“

In My Take you will learn:

• You can’t just say “I quit” and make it happen. There’s a lot of great things that can happen in a corporate job. So tread carefully before you jump. Also read her book.
  

• Keep your ears open and gather intel. Joan was able to negotiate a better deal because her male friends were bragging. Tune in to what others are saying.

Episode Links:

Joan's book Dig Your Heels In can also be bought here on Amazon

Check out Joan's website -

www.JoanKuhl.com

Follow Joan!

• Instagram - @JoanKuhl

• Twitter - @JoanKuhl

• Facebook - @JoanKuhlSpeaker

• LinkedIn - @JoanKuhl
  
  

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Transcription

Joan Kuhl:
I remember when we finally were able to move out of my grandparents house and she could afford to buy a condo outside of Philadelphia, and they increased her mortgage rate by two and a half percentage points because they considered her, as a single mother, as high risk.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup with me, certified financial planner Bobbi Rebell, author of “How to be a Financial Grownup,” and you know what, being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money, but it's okay, we're going to get there today. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Financial Grownup friends. You may want to go back and replay that opening quote, it really happened, and yes, it is unbelievable. Welcome all, and to our new listeners, so glad you found us. Take a minute please, make sure you're subscribed, and say hi on the socials to let me know that you're here, RobbiRebell1 on Instagram, Bobbi on Twitter. Let's get to our guest, John Kuhl. K-U-H-L, Kuhl. She is the founder of "Why Millennials Matter" and the author of "Misunderstood Millennial Talent." Her latest book, which we're going to be talking about, is “Dig Your Heels In,” and when you hear in our interview about the incredible experiences her mom had, that's who she was talking about at the opening of the show, you're going to truly appreciate what a great role model Joan had in her mom and what a great role model Joan is. Here is Joan Kuhl.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Joan Kuhl, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast.

Joan Kuhl:
Thank you, Bobbi. I'm excited to be with you.

Bobbi Rebell:
I'm excited, because I got a sneak peek at your new book "Dig Your Heels In." You are both a speaker, you're a consultant, you founded "Why Millennial's Matter and also "Courage to Stay," and as I've mentioned, now you've got "Dig Your Heels In", which is really about how to navigate, I don't know, we try to keep the E off the show, so I'm just going to say the corporate BS and build the company that you deserve, which is a book long overdue. I wish, we were talking [inaudible 00:02:19] like I wish I had this book when I had my corporate jobs, Joan.

Joan Kuhl:
I know. Well, I'm here now, and so this is to empower the women that are working right now and make sure we pave the way for the next generation.

Bobbi Rebell:
Absolutely. Speaking of next generation, you learned so much from your mom.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah. So observing a mom that was really trying to build a better life for us, I remember when we finally were able to move out of my grandparents house and she could afford to buy a condo outside of Philadelphia, and they increased her mortgage rate by two and a half percentage points because they considered her, as a single mother, as high risk. So ridiculous.

Bobbi Rebell:
Wait, wait, wait, they charged her more money because she had one income as a single mother, therefore she should pay more?

Joan Kuhl:
Yup. They lobbed on extra points onto her interest, her mortgage rate just because they considered her high risk, and like it was little things like that that I observed. It wasn't until I was older and we had those conversations when I was going after my first job offer and she was really in my corner saying "Negotiate, read everything in details," because I think that's when we started to understand some of the discrimination against women.

Bobbi Rebell:
Many people don't realize, we take this for granted that as a woman you could own a home, but this was really revolutionary, and I guess that's why they were able to pay, make her pay more. I mean, you talk about the pink tax.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, it's funny, this, a lot of this connects into why I wrote "Dig Your Heels In," even just thinking about the decisions that women make and sometimes feel forced to make because they're in a male dominated situation or a situation ripe with bias, so yeah, of course ... My mother was actually a teacher, and then she became a secre- she had multiple jobs, she was a secretary and she was trying to get an advanced degree, and then she was logging miles to get her pilots license, ultimately to get her in the door to become an air traffic controller, because she was kind of studying these fields that she thought she had the skills to transition into that would give her a higher income, and ultimately triple her income from being an inner city school teacher. So it's just things like that that really inspired me "Okay, well women should be able to go after what we want, but we should also not be pushed out of fields that we love or companies that we work so hard to get in the door of because we're not being paid equally."

Bobbi Rebell:
Right, and so there's the double irony. So she wasn't able to be paid equally to men, and yet she was being forced to pay more at the time than them. When she had this situation with for example the mortgage, at that time did she have any recourse? Was she able to negotiate at all or was it "If you want a mortgage, this is what it is?"

Joan Kuhl:
"This is what it is." It's funny, and now like I've seen over probably since my early teens, my mom will negotiate anything, even at an Anne Taylor in the mall, with her phone bills, and I think it was because of those experiences where she felt so scared, right? She's got like, even though I saw her as brave and courageous, you have a fear when you're a single parent of like, she just finally got the money to get us into a better home, you know, why would she risk not getting the loan approved just because they were discriminating against her in terms of the rate?

Bobbi Rebell:
That's incredible. So what is the lesson for our listeners from this story? Obviously, first of all always negotiate, but what do you think your lesson would be and what would your mom's lesson be?

Joan Kuhl:
Well, I think it is absolutely know what we deserve, and so I think it is not, sometimes when we are in a situation where we do think somebody might have more knowledge than us, so that's a situation where you're going for a home loan or something, and you think "Oh, well this person has the expertise, they have the credibility, and if they're pushing back on something I'm asking for maybe there's a legitimate reason," I wouldn't let it stop there. I think that's why there's so many amazing organizations right now of women talking to each other. One of the biggest things I've learned from my mom is we have to talk about money. One story I'll quickly share with you, I felt competent negotiation my salary and asking for a higher salary than most people when I graduated from college because of the net my friends that were guys that graduated the year before and were getting recruited by all these big consulting firms, they were bragging to me telling me what their starting salary was, but I used that to then tell people what I thought I deserved.

Bobbi Rebell:
That's amazing. What kind of reaction did you get when you asked for those higher numbers?

Joan Kuhl:
I will never forget sitting in front of this woman, and it was actually a hotel management company, and I told her and she literally laughed at me. She was so condescending, like she could not believe I had the gall [inaudible 00:06:39]-

Bobbi Rebell:
A woman?

Joan Kuhl:
A woman.

Bobbi Rebell:
Interesting.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, and it happens, right? And I said to her, and I just started spouting off, I'm like "This company, this company, Deloitte, Accenture, Price Waterhouse Coopers, all these companies, and this is the kind of benefits they offer, and I've, I'm in the final rounds of interviews with them too, so I also know I'm the number one candidate for this job." And this is where I always laugh when they say millennials are entitled. I think that anyone that's young that kind of has the [foreign language 00:07:02] to say "This is what I know is the market value, and I'm going to ..." And I already knew that I work my butt off wherever I went, and so I always felt that gave me the confidence to say "Hey, this is what I believe I'm worth," and also "Hi, look how much it costs to go to school these days."

Bobbi Rebell:
It's interesting, the men will discuss money as a way of bragging, but very often women don't discuss it at all.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, exactly. I even just remember when we were at graduation and my mom was so proud, and my godmother came with her too to my, and I was the speaker at my graduation, huge university, University of Pittsburgh for the College of Business, and a couple of my girlfriends that we were all, had been presidents of clubs and had multiple job offers, our parents were like so excited talking to each other, and we were so embarrassed that they were talking about that we had these jobs, or the amount of money, or what the salaries were, whereas we knew that all the guys around us were like high fiving, they were telling their older brothers, ever- it was just, it's this strange thing that we feel like we have to shrink ourselves versus just talk about something that allows us to really feel on a level playing field.

Bobbi Rebell:
And that's I think where men can actually be our partners and our assets, because we are their daughters, their wives, their friends, their girlfriends, their sisters, their nieces and so on, and they want to support us, so I think it's great that you really got support and information from your male friends and classmates to get that better offer, and that's why it's really an issue for everyone, and I think it's important that it be addressed that men can be our best advocates and our best assets in this as well.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, I've [inaudible 00:08:47] a lot of men and allies programs, and healthcare companies and sports companies, and there are so many men that are coming to the table saying "I want, I believe my colleagues should be treated fairly and I want to be a part of this new world where everyone has equal opportunity to go to a workplace that's fair and access, equally accessible to advancement, anything that we want."

Bobbi Rebell:
Well said. Let's move on to your everyday money tip Joan, because this is something we can all relate to, but we don't always do, and we should. Go for it.

Joan Kuhl:
So I have this 200 dollar cash rule that kind of by happenstance became a trick that I use, and I think it was because A, I used to realize I never had cash on me all the time, and living in New York City it's a must have, but it also allows me to see where unexpected things come up. So now as a mother, I have a five and a one-year-old, you've got birthday parties, or there's sometimes where, I always try to save and take public transportation, buses and subways, pride myself on that, but I look at the 200 dollar rule, I take it out on the first of the month, like I took it out this morning, and guess what, unfortunately today I got my hair done this morning, so I'm halfway done with that, with-

Bobbi Rebell:
[crosstalk 00:09:51].

Joan Kuhl:
[crosstalk 00:09:51] dollars cash. Yeah, but that's the thing, I always say "Okay, this is my barometer of like how well I'm planning for my expenses." It's not like budgeting, but things come up like the birthday gifts or, you know, my daughter needs something extra for an after school activity, or I am like "You know what? I want to go out tonight and I didn't plan for it." So that's kind of my rule, is just looking at where the cash goes.

Bobbi Rebell:
I think that's really important, because it also gives you an indication if that's how fast your actual cash is going, which can feel more painful, think how much is going that's sort of just automated in your life, that's being sucked out of your bank accounts for all of this bills, which we should automate of course, but we don't really feel it the same way. At least with the cash you're feeling it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about your book "Dig Your Heels In." So important. I feel like this is sort of the next wave. We had "Lean In," and that made sense to a lot of people at that time, but now you've really hit on something that is so important. "Dig Your Heels In," really, it's a metaphor, but it's not, it's literal too to a large degree. I love a quote from the book that you say, "By leaving your company are you running away from something or running towards something? Are you jumping ship because you just 'can't deal any longer,' or is the new opportunity something that really excites you and fulfills your career ambition?" Because sometimes, there's a lot of running away Joan, there really is.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah. And I always say digging your heels in is a personal decision, and so I am in no way, shape or form telling everyone to grin and bear it if your situation's toxic, but the majority of the time the women that I have met over the years, I've interviewed hundreds of women around the world for global research projects, you get backed into a corner, and I think sometimes the sexy thing in popular culture right now is to get a bigger title, or a bigger promotion, or more money if you jump and ghost ship, or that the only way to advance is to be a girl boss and start your own thing, but the truth is you have so much equity in where you are right now and so much opportunity to really transform that company, and taking stock, taking a deep breath, really thinking about those ah-ha moments, what is really frustrating you there and how can you turn that into fuel and really disrupt the status quo? We're never going to, I think really achieve this inclusive culture and workplace if we don't dig our heels in and go after the things that we deserve.

Bobbi Rebell:
And you also point out in the book that we think that we're the only ones feeling a certain way, but you interviewed the very highest achieving female executives who look, their lives look perfect on the outside, and as you got to know them and as they opened up to you these top executives were barely surviving rather than thriving as you perceived them to be.

Joan Kuhl:
Yeah, that threw me completely for a loop. I was so naive in my mindset thinking they were living this glamorous career, personal and professional lives, and to really hear their battle scars of what they had gone through and they endured taught me a lot about sometime that dynamic between women at work in different generations, but also that we still have so much work to do. I interviewed Reece Witherspoon a couple months ago who also told me that she has bouts with imposter syndrome. I mean, it's Reece Witherspoon. So one of side of this is the self limiting mindset that we can figure out how to overcome, and some of that is pushed on us because of bias in the system and around us, but the other side of it is the system's broken, and I think that's why we need to identify some tactical ways to change it, and that's why I want "Dig Your Heels In to be a real playbook that shows examples of women doing just that.

Bobbi Rebell:
I love that because you have a lot of these broad strokes, you have a lot of really important statistics in this book, but you also interview women and give very specific stories that are relatable to all of us, and we see ourselves in that and there's a lot of value in that, so I really hope everyone will pick up "Dig Your Heels In." So Joan, just to wrap up tell us where people can get the book and hear more about you and be in touch with you, your socials, all that good stuff?

Joan Kuhl:
Awesome. So I have a brand new website, JoanKuhl.com J-O-A-N K-U-H-L. "Dig Your Heels In," we have a fantastic website that's DigYourHeelsIn.com and the book is sold everywhere books are sold, so Amazon, Barns and Noble, Books-A-Million, Target, Walmart, you name it. If you order it and you go and enter your information on my website you will get a ton of free resources that I developed as things that are master classes on work and life hacks and some great jumpstart your career guides. And on social, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook I'm @JoanKuhl as well.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you, Joan.

Joan Kuhl:
Thanks, Bobbi. I love talking to you.

Bobbi Rebell:
All right my friends, here's my take. Financial grown up tip number one, I want to address something that Joan alluded to, but we didn't really get to explore fully, and that is that we are having a cultural moment where we really glorify the idea of the entrepreneur, of being the boss babe and so on. We hear so many stories about being a boss, and changes in cultural norms and in technology do allow a lot more entrepreneurship, but don't be fooled. There is no paycheck coming every two weeks, at least not for a long time for most entrepreneurs, and of course there's that healthcare thing, and you can't just say "I quit" and just instantly have a business. There are a lot of things that go on in order to have a successful business, and it rarely is an overnight success. There are usually years of hard work behind the scenes that you don't hear about when you read these articles of what seems like overnight successes. So it's important that you acknowledge and understand that as Joan talks about, there are a lot of great things that can happen in a corporate job as well. You can be an intrapreneur, which means you sort of build little businesses within a company, but with the company's support, which includes of course that ongoing paycheck and that financial security of a job. So tread carefully before you jump, and also of course read Joan's book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grown up tip number two, keep your ears open and gather intel. Joan was able to negotiate a better deal because her male friends were bragging. Tune in to what others of both sexes are saying. That can be in person and it can also be maybe in chat rooms online, it can be being part of a mastermind group or even on social media platforms, for example Facebook Groups and so on. It's a cliché for a reason, information is power.

Bobbi Rebell:
I hope you all enjoyed spending time with us today, now I need your help. Please make sure you are subscribed, and if you have friends or colleagues that you think will enjoy these interviews and these podcast episodes with, for example amazing role models like Joan, please encourage them to subscribe as well, and of course ratings and reviews are gold to us, we appreciate every single one. Big thanks to "Dig Your Heels In" author Joan Kuhl for helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbie Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart and is a BRK Media production.

A big part of being a financial grownup is getting organized- and not just with our finances. This goes for our stuff, our technology and even our scheduling. Barbara Reich has shared her secrets with millions appearing on programs like the Today Show and in publications like the New York Times, and now shares with financial grownup listeners.

Here 3 organizational tips for Financial Grownups

• The importance of knowing what you have

• Why it's important to store things where you can find them

• How labeling what you have can really help to keep things organized

Episode Links:

Barbara's website www.ResourcefulConsultants.com

Follow Barbara!

• Instagram - @BarbaraReich_Resourceful

• Facebook - @ResourcefulConsultants

• Pinterest - @BarbaraReich

• Twitter - @BarbaraReich

• YouTube

• LinkedIn

Some of the links in this post are affiliate links. This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission at no extra cost to you. All opinions remain my own.

Philanthropist and "Simple Acts" author Natalie Silverstein learned first hand the power of empathy when her 7-year old son surprised her with a true act of kindness. She shares that experience along with specific ways Financial Grownups can give back to their communities with their family and friends. 

In Natalie's money story you will learn:

• How the verbiage we use with children about those less fortunate than us can be so important

• The importance of knowing that all kids are different and learn at different speeds

• How, when her son was about 7 years old, he knew that a homeless man in the subway needed help and proceeded to give all he had at the time

• Natalie and her son, now 16, had a very similar experience just recently where her son, once again, gave all that he had

In Natalie’s money lesson you will learn:

• Why it's so important to keep the lines of communication open with our children

• The importance of sharing our resources with our children while they are still young

• How showing our children gratitude for what we have can be so meaningful to them

• Showing our children how we can help people that don't have as much as they do

• The way we word things to our children can have an impact of how they view those people who are less fortunate

In Natalie's everyday money tip you will learn:

• If you have a child celebrating a birthday they can make a donation to a charity of their choosing at one of the websites listed below to help them learn about donating money

In My Take you will learn:

• The subtitle of the book is The Busy Family’s Guide to Giving Back. If you don’t have young kids- don’t let that stop you. Pick up Natalie’s book and get going. 

• Plan ahead for how you are going to interact with people that may be less fortunate than you.
  

Episode Links:

www.EchoAge.com

www.KidsCanGiveToo.com

www.SilversteinFoundation.org

Check out Natalie's website -

www.SimpleActsGuide.com

Follow Natalie!

• Instagram - @simpleacts_guide

• Twitter - @simpleactsguide

• Facebook - @simpleacts_guide

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Transcription

Nat Silverstein:
Very quietly, he didn't even look up while he was doing it, he unzipped the little side pocket and he pulled out a nickel, and when the man came by, he kind of quietly put it in his cup, didn't look up at him. He obviously understood that he had something that he didn't need, and that he could give it to this man.

Bobbi Rebell:
You're listening to Financial Grownup, with me, Certified Financial Planner, Bobbi Rebell, author of How to Be a Financial Grownup. And you know what? Being a grownup is really hard, especially when it comes to money. But it's okay. We're going to get there together. I'm going to bring you one money story from a financial grownup, one lesson, and then my take on how you can make it your own. We got this!

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey everyone. This story you just heard a preview of at the top of the show literally gave me chills when my friend Natalie shared it with me, and there's more where that came from. I'm really excited to share this interview. I also want to thank everyone, truly, for joining us. The show is really picking up steam and that's because of you. The support that you've been giving to the show is priceless, especially when you not only subscribe but also tell friends about the show. I just wanted to say an official thank you again. It's really appreciated. We grow one listener at a time.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's talk about Natalie Silverstein. She is a really big deal. Natalie is a frequent writer, speaker, and consultant on the topic of family service, presenting to parents, educators, and children, and I got to know her, actually, when our children went to school together. As you will hear, she was the go-to mom if you wanted to do something good with your kids, a service project, volunteering, and so on. I remember taking my son to different activities suggested by Natalie when he was younger. Very hands-on, getting it done. Natalie runs the New York chapter of Doing Good Together and has just come out with her first book, Simple Acts: The Busy Family's Guide to Giving Back. When I was reading this book, I could literally hear the voice of Natalie behind the writing, that's how intensely personal this book was for Natalie.

Bobbi Rebell:
With that, let's just get to the interview. Here is Natalie Silverstein.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, Natalie Silverstein, you're a financial grownup, welcome to the podcast!

Nat Silverstein:
Thank you so much, Bobbi! Thank you for having me.

Bobbi Rebell:
This is such a treat because we are friends beyond the podcast. Our children actually went to school together.

Nat Silverstein:
Yes.

Bobbi Rebell:
It's so appropriate that you finally, finally wrote a book. You run the New York chapter of Doing Good Together, and now you've written the book Simple Acts: The Busy Family's Guide to Giving Back, so congratulations.

Nat Silverstein:
Thank you, thank you so much. A few years back, my kids were little, I have an 18-year-old, an almost-16-year-old, and an 11-year-old, same as you, and I really was just searching around New York City, trying to find volunteer opportunities, organizations, nonprofits, that would take us as volunteers. I just was sort of astonished at the number of people in need in this city, in this community, and the lack of opportunities for me to volunteer and to do good with my kids. I always joke around, you can get Chinese food at four in the morning, you can get anything you want any time in New York City, but I could not, for the life of me, find a place that would welcome my young children to volunteer, so I thought I would create something on my own.

Nat Silverstein:
Instead of creating a website, or a listing, or a subscriber list, I sort of noodled around on the internet and I found Doing Good Together, which is based in Minneapolis. It's been around for about 15 years, and they had a fantastic family-friendly listing of volunteer opportunities that they sent out to subscribers every month. I reached out to the founder and I said, "I'd like to do this, I'd like to franchise your idea and be your person on the ground in New York City." She flipped out and said, "This is exactly what I've always wanted, I've wanted to go national and spread the message of what we're doing here." I was the first other location, and now we're in several other cities, and so I curate this listing, and they push it out for me to all of my subscribers, and that's been really gratifying work. Through all of that, I did, as you mentioned, become sort of this defacto community service lady.

Bobbi Rebell:
As parents, and even if you're not a parent, you have people in your life, and you look at them, and you don't know if they really are understanding what they have and what other people don't have, and the importance of acts of kindness and simple things that you can give back. You're very candid in the book that you've had your own struggles with your own family about teaching them the values that you have and getting them to basically get on board.

Nat Silverstein:
Right.

Bobbi Rebell:
So tell us your money story.

Nat Silverstein:
I have three really wonderful kids. My son is in the middle, and while the two girls are very sort of emotionally connected, have very high EQ, super sensitive to other people's feelings, my boy is kind of a typical boy. When he was younger, he was a little bit head in the clouds, a little spacey. You'd be talking to him, and I joke around and say you could be crying hysterically in front of him and he'd be like, "Oh, gee, do you have a cookie?" He's a wonderful, affectionate, warm person, but when he was younger it really felt like it didn't quite connect, he didn't connect all the dots. I joked around that I sort of worried that he lacked this empathy chip, this piece of your soul that kind of connects to other people and understands what people are going through.

Nat Silverstein:
One day, we're on the subway, he and I, and he was young, maybe like seven or eight. There was a gentleman panhandling on the subway, as happens very frequently here in New York City. The gentleman was telling his story very passionately, and asking for help genuinely and articulately, and everyone on the subway is doing what people mostly do here in New York. They look down, looking at their phones, sort of ignoring him, not really making eye contact with him. It is very difficult to deal with homelessness in the street when you are dealing with it, because it would be very hard to help every single person.

Nat Silverstein:
But I'm sitting there and I'm looking at my son, I'm seeing him process all of this, and very quietly, and he didn't even look up while he was doing it, he unzipped the little side pocket, you know there's little pockets on the jacket, and he put his hand in, and he pulled out a nickel. Honestly, I don't know where he got this nickel. He probably found it on the street or found it on the playground, stuck it in his little zipper pocket, this little hidden pocket. He just pulled it out, and when the man came by, he kind of quietly put it in his cup, didn't look up at him. I was so moved in that moment, I just was like, first of all, where did this come from? He obviously understood that he had something that he didn't need and that he could give it to this man. Again, very quietly, without any fanfare.

Nat Silverstein:
I will fast-forward and tell you that we were just on the subway again together the other day, and the same thing happened. He's a big boy now, he's almost 16, and he pulled out his wallet, and he took out a dollar, and he put it in the man's cup before we got off the train. So I worried about him, and I didn't know if he was getting it all along, and he really kind of got it. It was gratifying to me, but every kid has to come at this and to this at their own speed. All kids are different, we know that, and again, it has to be all of this, doing service, acts of kindness, philanthropy, these have to be conversations and things that happen in your family on an ongoing everyday routine basis, because those are the drops in the bucket, those are the things that really fill out a kid's character, for sure.

Bobbi Rebell:
What kind of conversation did you have with him after this happened when he was younger? How old was he?

Nat Silverstein:
He was seven or eight. He was really little.

Bobbi Rebell:
Did you have a conversation? What was it like?

Nat Silverstein:
I did. We were holding hands, walking out of the subway, and I was like, "Oh, I'm really proud of you for doing that. I didn't know that you had that in your pocket, and I was kind of surprised." He didn't want to talk about it so much. I think that's the other thing, there's a lot of, my book talks about, reflection and really giving kids space to ask questions and to talk about what they'd like to do in terms of moving forward. Would they like to continue to do service in this way, and how did they feel about what they saw and what they heard? But there's also a little bit of, you don't want to over-talk it, and you want to just let it kind of be a part of the way that you move through the world. I just told him I was really proud of him and I thought that that was a really nice, kind thing to do, and that hopefully this man would be able to get some food with that money.

Bobbi Rebell:
What is the lesson for our listeners from that story?

Nat Silverstein:
I think it's watching and listening to your own kids, teaching about money, learning about money, and particularly learning about philanthropy and sharing of your resources is very personal to a family. These concepts of generosity, and service, and empathy, all of that goes along with a conversation about money and gratitude for what we have, and understanding and acknowledging that not everyone in the world has as much as we do, so how lucky we are. Also, what are the ways in which we can help other people who maybe don't have as much?

Nat Silverstein:
There's a lot of language around this social justice stuff. We talk about not calling someone a homeless person, but a person who is experiencing homelessness, because the notion is, "There but for the grace of God go I." homeless people generally are people who had a home, had a job, had a family. Something has happened, right now they're experiencing this, hopefully they can get help and they can find a home, find a job, go back to school. So much of the language around philanthropy and service has sort of judgment around financial and socioeconomic status, and so I just think these are important conversations to have with kids, and to always talk about how grateful we are for what we have. To be honest, it's not always going to be perfect, and sometimes things aren't going to go perfectly when you're doing volunteer work and that sort of thing, but just kind of always keeping the lines of communication open with kids on this.

Bobbi Rebell:
I like what you said about learning not to judge, because that's something even just among adults, we should not judge people that are going through tough times.

Nat Silverstein:
Sure. Words like impoverished, and needy, and hungry, yes, food insecurity is a real thing, and I think that phrase has really come up lately. The notion that kids go to school hungry every day and it's not because they don't have homes, or families that love them, or their parents don't have jobs, it's because at the end of the month, money starts to run tight, and there's not as much food. We know that a lot of kids get their meals at school, and so kids need to understand that this is a real thing that happens to a lot of children in their own communities, and that there are simple things that they can be doing, that your family can be doing, to help others who are in that position, and hopefully help them to get out of that position. It's not always a handout, it's a hand-up.

Bobbi Rebell:
Let's move onto your money tip, because this basically will tell us all how we can execute these ideas, specific apps that will make it easier to have your children get involved and give back.

Nat Silverstein:
One idea in particular that I wanted to share is if you have a child who's celebrating a birthday, or a bar mitzvah, or a sweet 16, or a confirmation, or anything, any wonderful milestone, and they would like to make some sort of charitable donation as part of that celebration, which I think is so critically important, and shows that in our joy, we are able to share that joy with others who perhaps are in need, there are a couple of websites, one's called ECHOage, one's called Kids Can Give Too, and these are gift sharing websites. The birthday child, or the special event child, registers with their website, selects a charity to support, there are literally hundreds to choose from, and then asks guests, in lieu of getting gifts, to make a monetary donation on the website.

Nat Silverstein:
The website collects all the funds and splits it, and I think in some cases the kids can even say how much of a split they want. Do they want 50/50? Do they want 60/40? Do they want 70/30? So that's sort of an interesting conversation, too. The child can say, "I want to do 50/50." Half of the money they collect through this website from their guests, and their friends, and their family, will go to the charity of their choosing, and half will come back to them so they can select one special, important gift for them. It's kind of a win/win, everybody feels like they've given something to the child, and the child feels like they've given back something to a charity that they care about. I do find sometimes when you ask for in lieu of gifts, people don't like doing that because they want so much to give a gift, and I totally get it, so this is sort of the best of both worlds.

Bobbi Rebell:
Because the kid is still getting a gift, so they're more likely to do it, because sometimes people, as you said, they just end up not doing anything rather than go to the toy store. That's a great solution.

Bobbi Rebell:
Where can people learn more about you and about your book, Simple Acts: A Busy Family's Guide to Giving Back, and all the other ventures that you're involved with?

Nat Silverstein:
Well, I am on Instagram, simpleacts_guide, so if you look at simpleacts_guide, you'll find me. Facebook, Twitter, also simpleacts_guide. I have a website, simpleactsguide.com, and of course the Gryphon House website. Gryphon House is my publisher, and they have lots of pages of my background, and a little more information about the book, and ways that you can order the book.

Bobbi Rebell:
Awesome. Thank you so much, Natalie, this was amazing.

Nat Silverstein:
Thank you, Bobbi, I really appreciate it.

Bobbi Rebell:
Hey, friends. When it comes to role models, Natalie is the total package. Here's my take on what she had to say.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number one: family is how you define it. The subtitle of this book is The Busy Family's Guide to Giving Back. Just because you don't have young kids, don't let that stop you. Pick up Natalie's book and get going with your family, again, however you define family.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial grownup tip number two: plan ahead for how you are going to interact with people that may be less fortunate than you, and decide in advance, for example, if you are out with a child, maybe your own child, maybe a niece, a nephew, a friend's child, what have you, if you see a homeless person, for example, how are you going to handle it? As Natalie said, that is a personal choice, but in the moment, you might panic and not have the right language, and so if this child asks you about it, it's important that you approach it using the right words. As Natalie pointed out, those words that we use, for example, saying food insecure, or experiencing homelessness, using those kinds of choices, they can really shape the perception of a child when they encounter these very precarious and difficult situations.

Bobbi Rebell:
By the way, for more specific tips, Natalie did stick around and taped a Financial Grownup Guide episode about ways to be a kinder financial grownup, so make sure that you are subscribed, because it's a really special episode, and we will be rolling it out in just a couple of weeks.

Bobbi Rebell:
Big thanks to Natalie Silverstein for really being the ultimate role model and helping us all get one step closer to being financial grownups.

Bobbi Rebell:
Financial Grownup with Bobbie Rebell is edited and produced by Steve Stewart, and is a BRK Media production.